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Why do SNP voters hate women?

Posted on December 19, 2022 by

The newest Panelbase poll, which shows a narrow lead for independence, was an “omnibus” one with questions provided by multiple clients, including Wings and the Sunday Times. The questions we’re about to show you were asked by the ST rather than ourselves, but their results are deeply disturbing on multiple levels.

The first one is perhaps predictable but still unsettling. (Click all pics to enlarge.)

A huge 2:1 majority of Scots believe the Scottish Government’s proposed new “gender recognition” laws pose a safety risk to women. Tory voters think so by almost 9:1, Lib Dem voters by almost 6:1, and Labour voters by nearly 2:1.

That can only partly be explained away by partisan party loyalty – Labour and the Liberal Democrats both support the bill, but their own voters are still strongly against. More noteworthy is the fact that (excluding Don’t Knows) even slavishly loyal SNP voters agree with the statement by a smaller but still clear 12-point margin, 56 to 44.

So let’s say it unambiguously: most SNP voters think the SNP’s gender reforms pose a danger to women’s safety.

But that’s not the disturbing bit.

The disturbing bit comes next:

Because by a margin of 3 to 2, SNP voters who have an opinion either way also say that the reforms make them MORE likely to vote for the SNP.

So let’s put it all together and spell it out: when taken as a whole, SNP voters say they’re MORE likely to vote for the SNP specifically because of a policy that they themselves think puts women in danger.

Indeed, less than one in five of the party’s supporters are troubled by the fact. 53% of them merely don’t care that women will be put in danger, while 28% of them are actively enthused by the idea. (And of that 28%, two-thirds say they’re MUCH more likely, not just a bit more likely, to vote SNP as a result.)

There was almost no difference between the sexes in the responses, incidentally. Despite a column in today’s Times which manages to be extraordinarily moronic even by the standards of Kezia Dugdale, women are overwhelmingly against the reforms:

There’s a predictably large gulf by age, though, because young people are idiots.

But the biggest gap of all was by indyref voting intention.

By an astonishing margin of more than 10:1, people who would currently vote No – the people, remember, who must be won over for any plebiscite election to have a chance of success – said they were less likely to vote for the SNP as a result of the proposed laws.

(Ah, now we understand why Labour and the Lib Dems are backing them so enthusiastically despite the clear opposition of their own voters.)

In addition, 17% of those who would currently vote Yes say the policy lessens their chance of voting for the SNP in an election the SNP would be running as a plebiscite.

Nicola Sturgeon’s plans for gender reform, in short, are a suicide pill for Scottish independence. Coupled with her insistence on using a Westminster election rather than a Holyrood one for the plebiscite (thereby excluding many of the young people who DO support the reforms, as well as pro-indy EU citizens), it’s impossible to reach any rational conclusion other than that she wants to lose.

But even that fact is less alarming and upsetting than the revelation that SNP voters hate women so much they actively relish the idea of putting them in harm’s way.

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  1. 19 12 22 10:20

    Public Opinion Polls - For Women Scotland
    Ignored

202 to “Why do SNP voters hate women?”

  1. Smitty
    Ignored
    says:

    Readers should have a look at Kezia Dugdales column in the Times today. She has completely lost the plot, but she is getting called out for it. https://archive.ph/NiVFx

  2. Kenny
    Ignored
    says:

    Slightly disappointed not so see a rather more savage dissection of Dugdale’s homophobia tbh.

  3. Rev. Stuart Campbell
    Ignored
    says:

    “Readers should have a look at Kezia Dugdales column in the Times today. She has completely lost the plot, but she is getting called out for it.”

    Well over 100 comments already and not a single one supportive. What an absolutely reliable fuckwit she is.

  4. Robert
    Ignored
    says:

    There is an issue missed in the analysis: “Do you think the plans pose a safety risk but are nevertheless worthwhile for the general good of society?”. Same as not wearing cycle helmets poses a risk to the non-wearer, but the freedom not to wear outweighs the benefit of wearing.

  5. Ruby
    Ignored
    says:

    My answer to the poll question would be

    No more than the GRA 2004 does.

    Keep signing:

    https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/628382

  6. Karen
    Ignored
    says:

    So Kezia believes you can change your sex? We need more scientists, and parents, in politics.

  7. Confused.com
    Ignored
    says:

    I must admit to being in a bit of a quandry; I desperately want Scotland to be an independent country but if Sturgeon ever did get round to asking the question “Should Scotland be an idependent counrty?” I would be tempted to vote no because just as Brexit has turbo-charged the fascists and crazy neolibs on the Toe-rag party (by removing any form of oversight), I fear that Scottish independence would simply turbo-charge the lunatics in the nu-SNP who are doing their best to ruin the country. Perhaps I worry too much about something that’s never going to happen?

  8. Ruby
    Ignored
    says:

    ‘There was almost no difference between the sexes in the responses, incidentally.’

    That would be of interest if I could be sure those responding to the poll were your old fashioned type of male & female.
    Remember ‘trans women are women’ so they are not going to tick male when they respond to polls.
    Robyn Woof claims he is an ‘adult human female’ and India Willoghby claims he is a ‘biological woman’ so both will give us their opinion from a female perspective.

    We can’t even have a fuckin’ opinion anymore.

    Is there any way to see the comments on The Times?

  9. Stoker
    Ignored
    says:

    Rev wrote: “Nicola Sturgeon’s plans for gender reform, in short, are a suicide pill for Scottish independence.”

    The level of long-term damage Sturgeon has done to our attempts to take back our right of self-determination is too depressing to contemplate. It was obvious to all, outside the SNP, that the general public would associate this issue with independence. Or maybe those in the SNP new *exactly* that it would be associated with indy?

    Also, bear in mind most of the public are still relatively ignorant of what is going on here. That shit is still currently travelling towards the fan. There are no words in existence to adequately describe my dislike of the Murrell’s. None!

  10. Ruby
    Ignored
    says:

    Karen says:
    19 December, 2022 at 9:13 am

    So Kezia believes you can change your sex? We need more scientists, and parents, in politics.

    It’s not just Kezia it’s every single political party in the UK.

  11. Stoker
    Ignored
    says:

    Regarding my post at 9:31 am.

    That should read ‘knew’ and not “new”.

  12. Dave Hansell
    Ignored
    says:

    “Well over 100 comments already and not a single one supportive. What an absolutely reliable fuckwit she is.”

    Best prepare for the libel action by the fuckwits for being unreasonably compared to Kezla Dugdale.

  13. stuart mctavish
    Ignored
    says:

    @Kenny

    Wouldn’t like to claim it was definitive but one source of her confusion appears to be between the human right to be born free (and equal in dignity and rights) and the freewill to choose, for whatever reason*, to behave without dignity or liberty thereafter.

    Guidelines below were written in a more aspirational era, but the unstated golden one in respecting or upholding them is probably to first do no harm (including to self) – a tall order in an age where words can be sharp, skins thin, and (so called positive) discrimination/ gaslighting is off the charts:

    https://www.un.org/en/about-us/universal-declaration-of-human-rights

    *including seasonal flu!

  14. Stuart MacKay
    Ignored
    says:

    I’d be interested to know what the breakdown is by socio-economic class. It’s likely that this is really a war on poor, working class women as the gentile classes are less likely to find themselves in a prison cell with Dan-iella.

    This of course could have nothing to do with gender and woke policies at all. The poor have been marginalised for quite some time that makes them easy victims for whatever vindictive policy that comes along. The middle-class, socially aware SNP voter will relish the opportunity to stick it to people they look down on. Women, as usual, are just the first casualties in this and any conflict.

  15. Scotsrenewables
    Ignored
    says:

    Support for a Holyroid plebiscite is growing. Read the comments on this article as well.

    GEORGE KEREVAN IN THE NATIONAL:
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    “On balance, I think the arguments for an induced Holyrood election (and de facto referendum) trump the use of a UK general election, where the independence question inevitably will be swamped.

    However, the Holyrood manoeuvre – let’s call it that – is the nuclear option. Without proper preparation and without a headwind of popular support, it could blow up in our faces. Not an easy choice.”
    https://www.thenational.scot/politics/23199094.early-holyrood-election-used-nuclear-option/

  16. Robert Hughes
    Ignored
    says:

    Robert says:
    19 December, 2022 at 9:05 am

    ” There is an issue missed in the analysis: “Do you think the plans pose a safety risk but are nevertheless worthwhile for the general good of society?”. Same as not wearing cycle helmets poses a risk to the non-wearer, but the freedom not to wear outweighs the benefit of wearing. ”

    So , you reckon eliminating the category Women ie Adult Human Female- essentially reducing it to a ” feeling ” , something that can be adopted , worn , like a pair of high heel shoes – is comparable to choosing not to wear a cycle helmet ?

    Do you also reckon what the SNP GOV Freakshow is proposing – rather , is on the verge of inflicting against the clear opinion of the Scottish public is ” worthwhile for the general good of Society ” ? How , in what way could placating the hysterical * Trans * lobby – at the expense , not only of Women in general , also the evidence of our senses , biological reality and Reason as a precious human attribute be considered a good thing ?

  17. Ruby
    Ignored
    says:

    It’s not just the safety issue that is a problem for me it’s the whole erasure of women that I find deeply offensive.

    The term woman doesn’t mean anything anymore.

    I would like to see the end to sex changes, the repeal of the GRA 2004 and impersonating a woman being made a hate crime.

  18. Ruby
    Ignored
    says:

    Scotsrenewables says:
    19 December, 2022 at 10:03 am

    Support for a Holyroid plebiscite is growing. Read the comments on this article as well.

    GEORGE KEREVAN IN THE NATIONAL:

    Why are you so keen to change the subject?

  19. Milady
    Ignored
    says:

    I’m with confused.com above. I 100% back Indy but Sturgeon and her merry band have made me so fearful of what a Scotland under the sway of politicians like that, might become. We must get them out, somehow, some way, it is now imperative.

  20. Republicofscotland
    Ignored
    says:

    I was always of the opinion that Sturgeon’s GRR’s were going to seriously damage the indy cause, and that she knew this beforehand.

  21. Republicofscotland
    Ignored
    says:

    “The reforms would remove the medical requirement and panel process and instead allow trans people to self-identify.”

    https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thenational.scot%2Fnews%2F23199034.holyrood-prepares-final-stage-gender-reform-debate%2F

    And there in lies the crux of the matter, trans rights are not affected, they have the same human rights as non trans folk, the problems lies in men with all their gear intact, wanting to encroach on women and children’s safe spaces which is not on.

  22. Linda McFarlane
    Ignored
    says:

    The below noted petition is now at over 48,000 signatures. It’s got over 7,000 since Sunday morning. Please sign it.

    Update the Equality Act to make clear the characteristic “sex” is biological sex
    The Government must exercise its power under s.23 of the Gender Recognition Act to modify the operation of the Equality Act 2010 by specifying the terms sex, male, female, man & woman, in the operation of that law, mean biological sex and not “sex as modified by a Gender Recognition Certificate”

    https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/623243#:~:text=Update%20the%20Equality,Gender%20Recognition%20Certificate%22

  23. Hatuey
    Ignored
    says:

    When politicians use the word “populism” it’s meant as a sneering and dismissive reference to the views of ordinary people (the great unwashed); Kezia’s article is a good example, and is dripping with contempt for the ordinary people who will need to live with the consequences of this legislation.

    Kezia thinks the bill finally passing through parliament may bring an end to the divisive debate. Job done, eh? I have my doubts about that. Passing legislation through parliament didn’t bring an end to the debate on the poll tax.

    I’m quite astonished at how strong opposition is to this legislation, as revealed in the polls. That can’t make good reading for those who framed it or those who support it. You’d really need to be nuts as a politician to ignore that opposition.

    Kezia doesn’t mention how Westminster might respond to the legislation. At the very least the UK government will be highly critical and milk it for everything they can. They may even act to neutralise it and these polls suggest there’s an open goal just waiting for them — where would that leave Nicola?

  24. Geoff Anderson
    Ignored
    says:

    @RepublicofScotland 10:13

    That is exactly it. She has poisoned the well and those thirsty SNP voters now think it’s worth the risk to drink from it
    At the same time she pisses of more people in the wider YES movement who will be reluctant to be blackmailed in this manner.

    The Murrell Business Unit will run Holyrood for decades to come and the Westminster short money will continue to flow.

  25. Ruby
    Ignored
    says:

    Self id is preferable to having some crazy medical diagnosis stating a man was born in the wrong body and requires a sex change.

    The only solution to all this madness is that there be no sex changes. You can’t change sex.

    No sex changes and impersonating a woman being made a hate crime.

    I find men impersonating a woman deeply, deeply, deeply offensive.

    You have a huge problem when the leader of the independence movement is seen as the destroyer of women’s rights.

    https://tinyurl.com/u97v7dw6

  26. Scotsrenewables
    Ignored
    says:

    Ruby says:

    Why are you so keen to change the subject?

    Not keen to change it at all, just able to think of more than one thing at once and only just came across the Kerevan article. No ulterior motive, Ruby.

    To get back to the subject of the article, Iagree there seems to be a deep vein of misogyny running through the SNP, and my partner feels the same. Between my comment and your response I have been linking to this article and commenting on it on various indy FB groups I am a member of.

  27. Republicofscotland
    Ignored
    says:

    I think that if Sturgeon’s GRR’s pass and become law, that any attacks on women and children by males (of which there has been in the past) in women and children’s safe spaces should see the politicians who pushed the GRR’s held accountable, and prosecuted for endangering women and children.

    At the very least the victims should sue them.

    Christ I loathe Westminster, but I find myself wanting them to step in and stop this madness to protect our women and children.

  28. Ruby
    Ignored
    says:

    Linda McFarlane says:
    19 December, 2022 at 10:25 am

    The below noted petition is now at over 48,000 signatures. It’s got over 7,000 since Sunday morning. Please sign it.

    I don’t understand that poll Linda. Is it one for lawyers?

  29. Scotsrenewables
    Ignored
    says:

    A wee bird tells me Kemi Badenoch wants a word with Shona Robison today to deliver a first verbal warning to ScotGov. No doubt she will spell out how it will go from here if they continue to pursue the GRR.

    Westminster striking down this legislation is the best thing that could possibly happen.

    It will take this shite off the table until after independence, forcing outrage and genuine pursuit of indy by the transactivist/misogynist wing as their only route forward.

    Win-win. We can then deal with this madness at a future date.

  30. Ruby
    Ignored
    says:

    Scotsrenewables says:
    19 December, 2022 at 10:51 am

    A wee bird tells me Kemi Badenoch wants a word with Shona Robison today to deliver a first verbal warning to ScotGov. No doubt she will spell out how it will go from here if they continue to pursue the GRR.

    This is the Tory Gov masquerading as the protector of women’s rights when all the time they support the GRA 2004. A totally crazy piece of legislation which allows men who claim they were born in the wrong body to change sex.

    What’s the difference between self-id and Eddie Izzard putting on a dress and claiming he is a she and India Willoughby having a face-lift and becoming a woman?

  31. John Main
    Ignored
    says:

    Here’s a wee quote from Kezia:

    They just don’t like the bill. They never will because it does not align with their worldview.

    Now, that is deep. It does not square with the picture painted of Kezia the Fuckwit.

    I am so busted! So, I am gonna modernise my world view.

    Everybody can change their sex just by saying so.

    Everybody can change their age just by saying so.

    Everybody can change their race just by saying so.

    Everybody can change their colour (including eye colour) just by saying so.

    Everybody can change their abled-ness just by saying so.

    Everybody can change their fitness level just by saying so.

    I think I have listed all formerly immutable personal characteristics above, but please advise me if I have left any out.

  32. Susan
    Ignored
    says:

    I identify as a brain surgeon. My feelings overrule any risks to the people I want to operate on. Ok.

  33. Scotsrenewables
    Ignored
    says:

    Ruby, I think we are all roughly on the same page with this.

    No-one imagines this Tory government are champions of womens (or anyones) rights, but by opposing the GRR they can simultaneously stop it in its tracks while increasing support for independence.

    ‘Useful idiots’ is, I think, the appropriate term.

  34. John Main
    Ignored
    says:

    @ Scotsrenewables says:19 December, 2022 at 10:34 am

    deep vein of misogyny running through the SNP, and my partner feels the same

    That’s a very interesting observation.

    A psychologist would have a field day with the subject of the SNP, NS, AS, genderwoowoo, etc. etc. Hopefully, one day soon, a psychologist will. It will make fascinating reading.

    Somebody once observed that WM political scandals usually follow a simple pattern: With Labour it’s money; With the Tories it’s sex.

    There is obviously something deeply wrong with the SNP and it centers on sex. I think from that, we can easily categorise them as Tories.

    Proving that the Tartan Tories jibe was always an accurate one, even if it was coined in a more innocent time.

  35. Rev. Stuart Campbell
    Ignored
    says:

    “I’d be interested to know what the breakdown is by socio-economic class.”

    Very little difference in support, but ABC1s were more likely to be outright opposed while C2DEs were more likely to say Don’t Know, by 6 or 7 points.

  36. Ruby
    Ignored
    says:

    Scotsrenewables says:
    19 December, 2022 at 11:08 am

    Ruby, I think we are all roughly on the same page with this.

    I don’t think so! I think I might be way out on my own on this one.

  37. Lenny Hartley
    Ignored
    says:

    Scotsrenewables Any chance of archiving that National article?

  38. sarah
    Ignored
    says:

    @ Scotsrenewables at 10.51: has anyone got a line to Kemi Badenoch to warn her that she will need to take a hammer with her to get some sense into Shona Robison’s extremely thick head?

    Perhaps White or Black Rod, or the Tower Yeomen Guard, should be brought along to take the Sturrells, Robertsons, Swinney, SASomerville, Lord Advocate, Crown Agent in COPFS etc etc etc ad infinitum, away in chains? I can’t think of a better use for those hangovers from a past when people really had to pay physically for their misdeeds.

  39. Ottomanboi
    Ignored
    says:

    But Hamza Yassin topped the Strictly Freakshow and the Fishwife is over the rainbow.
    Do get REAL folks!
    We live in the best of all possible worlds.

  40. Breastplate
    Ignored
    says:

    ScotsRenewables @ 10:03
    I can’t be bothered to read George Kerevan’s article but from what you have posted it seems an easy choice rather than it being a difficult one.

    He acknowledges that a Westminster plebiscite will be inundated with problems muddying the result (it can only muddy a successful pro-independence result, it won’t and can’t muddy an unsuccessfull pro-independence result).
    So we’re left with his thinking that the Westminster route is near impossible and the Holyrood route might be a bit bumpy but much more likely to succeed.

    Decisions, decisions, eh!

    But as I’ve said, I didn’t read the article and may be misrepresenting the inner workings of his mind.

    For what it’s worth, I believe a Holyrood plebiscite is the best choice we have at the moment but that does not mean we shouldn’t have other irons in the fire, like some people believe.

    Unfortunately, our problem is that we have Unionists self identifying as independence people behind the wheel of the independence bus pretending to the SNP faithful that they’re getting closer to their destination. The driver has her feet up with the bus going nowhere, just people like Kavanagh and GMK running past the windows with cardboard cutouts of trees and fields of carrots.

    There will be a long wait for an independent Scotland.

  41. sarah
    Ignored
    says:

    @ Ruby: “I might be way out on my own with this one.”

    I’m with you, as is my husband. We have signed both the Westminster petitions, more in hope than expectation.

    The difficulty, as always, is getting the subject out and discussed properly. If the BBC obeyed Reith’s public service aims i.e. to inform and educate, it would be a huge help, but they seem to treat everything as if their sole duty is to “entertain” – even the News is referred to as a “show”. And the newspapers are all owned by enormously rich and apparently unfeeling, unprincipled, selfish people.

    The Rev points out that the C2DEs are more “Don’t Know” on this topic – they haven’t the time or the means to spend on reading politics blogs etc, being focussed on surviving. And yet it is this sector who are the most numerous [I think?], and the ones who voted Yes because it gave, and gives, the real chance of regaining some quality of life.

    I am clinging to the small hope that the SNP rebels last time, and the continuing flood of emails to the others, will cause the Bill to be paused at the very least. Or some other divine intervention will occur – it is the season for it, after all!

  42. Eli.Macca
    Ignored
    says:

    SNP MSPs who vote for this are in for a big shock when they come up for reselection. H&I MSPs are going to be in for a tough time. Roddick is deeply unpopular with activists in Inverness who are hell bent in making sure she never gets into Holyrood again. Minto, Lockhead, Allan & Todd (Minto & Allan at most risk) already have organised rebels including former MSPS & councillors in place who have gathered considerable sums of money and activist support to have them deselected.Forbes & Ewing are safe. Rebels are currently looking at unity candidates to defeat them. I doubt all will be successful but not all will survive. I have heard that similar plots are being hatched with groups already speaking to the Highland rebels. Lots of activists have gone into hibernation and going to leave know that they need to get rid of NuSNP MSPs if they stand a chance of winning back trust.

  43. smitty
    Ignored
    says:

    So the Observer editorial wades in with an excellent piece with 2 fingers up to the woke guardian. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/dec/18/scotland-controversial-proposed-gender-reforms

    Rush Wishart wrote this for the National yesterday. A wise head who should be listened to. https://archive.ph/2022.12.18-085743/https://www.thenational.scot/politics/23197986.holyrood-msps-cant-hide-behind-parties-gender-reform-vote/

    And here is the Times article about the Badenoch/Robison meeting today. https://archive.ph/Oto7Y

  44. David Hannah
    Ignored
    says:

    This whole things a waste of parliamentary time.

    Davros will be in there debating what gender Santa is – The Green woman from the Grinch party, canny mind her name the ugly one.

    These people, there’s something wrong with them there really is. Better watch out for Mrs Clause coming down you chimney!

  45. Astonished
    Ignored
    says:

    Both signed.

    Sturgeon and her cabal cannot possibly be allowed to lead the YES movement in any independence referendum.

    Sturgeon is misogynistic poison. Women’s complaints are ‘not valid’ said she.

    However I think before long the nuSNP will find out what the public actually think. They won’t like it.

    Trending on twitter is the hashtag ‘transwomen are conmen’. The times they are a’changin’. Good.

    The nuSNP are skint. And they appear to have very, very few willing donors. This lack of cash will lead to Sturgeon’s downfall. Can’t come soon enough.

  46. JoyousHate
    Ignored
    says:

    Re Kezia’s times article

    Since Kezia thinks these are different things, can anyone tell me what the difference is between a Lesbian and a Gay Woman?

    I’d ask Kezia but despite being a lesbian she has no idea what a homophobe is so there seems little point.

  47. Stuart MacKay
    Ignored
    says:

    Rev. Stuart Campbell @11:16am

    Thanks for that. That invalidates my “class struggle” theory. It will be interesting to watch Deirdre O’Neil’s film, https://www.barrheadboy.com/adult-human-female/ which, if I understood the earlier post correctly, very much framed in those terms.

  48. David Hannah
    Ignored
    says:

    I bet these green MSPs. I bet they don’t have families. I bet they don’t go to nativity plays with grandchildren or granny.

    They are not normal. They don’t have traditional families they don’t understand the concerns of women and girls, either obnoxious gay men, priveleged and nerdy – ignored by women, and, autistic.

    You look at that green party and you can see, them all, together at a swingers party. You can see it.

  49. Dubh
    Ignored
    says:

    I do the Panelbase surveys. It’s easy to join up and you get paid for every survey you do and no pressure if you miss a few.

    Done so many now I sometimes think I can spot a Wings question.

  50. Daisy Walker
    Ignored
    says:

    The Gender Woo Woo was always and deliberately so, a Trojan Horse policy.

    It places itself firmly in the ‘ignore all evidence and facts, loyalty and faith are everything’ box of the brain, the part where faith resides – and from there it is protected from all debate.

    By concentrating it as an ‘all or nothing’ policy and making it centre stage of policy priority (something which an Independence Party really shouldn’t be doing, for obvious reasons to do with their reason d’etre), it has polarised Indy support and mobilised a section of the population that was otherwise content to sit things out, and just turn up on polling day. Brilliant if you think about it…. Incidentally this is also its achilles heal, because shoulder to shoulder we can speak to No voters and provide them with Indy facts.

    By ensuring that all the parties except the Tories (I’m leaving out Alba at the minute, for reasons of size and newness) are pursuing this madness, it heards the voters towards the Conservative and Unionist party (who are now coming across as the adults in the room on this issue – though I’m sure it won’t last given the money involved), and ensures SNP Yes voters (much like Scottish No voters) who are perhaps not too comfortable with the details of this policy, dig in with their blind loyalty and pull up the draw bridges with regards listening to facts surrounding the SNP leadership pursuit of this. Again brilliant, when you think about it.

    And because of the Alex Salmond stitch up, the Alba Party Leader cannot take a lead on this issue without opening up old wounds.

    The Brit Nats are playing a blinder, not their first rodeo it has to be said, but never the less, brilliant. Sadly far too many Indy supporters who won’t see, and won’t think… and will ensure we won’t get indy with their wilful blind loyalty.

  51. PacMan
    Ignored
    says:

    Republicofscotland says: 19 December, 2022 at 10:21 am

    “The reforms would remove the medical requirement and panel process and instead allow trans people to self-identify.”

    https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thenational.scot%2Fnews%2F23199034.holyrood-prepares-final-stage-gender-reform-debate%2F

    And there in lies the crux of the matter, trans rights are not affected, they have the same human rights as non trans folk, the problems lies in men with all their gear intact, wanting to encroach on women and children’s safe spaces which is not on.

    Everybody has heard the slogan ‘Trans rights are human rights’. As Trans already have their human rights protected, what Trans are they talking about when people they utter this slogan?

    There are mean who for reasons do not identify with the sex they were born with and want to change their gender but not their sex by not going through surgery.

    That is a separate argument. The argument that needs to be dealt with now is that the SNP and other political parties are pushing a law that will allow these men to do that but not put in safeguards to stop this law from being abused.

  52. PacMan
    Ignored
    says:

    Rev. Stuart Campbell says: 19 December, 2022 at 11:16 am

    “I’d be interested to know what the breakdown is by socio-economic class.”

    Very little difference in support, but ABC1s were more likely to be outright opposed while C2DEs were more likely to say Don’t Know, by 6 or 7 points.

    These individuals will most likely oppose this on economic grounds due to equal pay and men identifying as woman to get round companies female affirmative action policies.

    Going a bit off-topic, I’m sure I had read somewhere recently that there was UK union officials who had self-identified as ‘transracial’ in order to get round quota’s for equal representation of ethnic minorities. Does anybody know if that is true or just fake news?

  53. Mark Boyle
    Ignored
    says:

    smitty says:
    19 December, 2022 at 12:01 pm

    So the Observer editorial wades in with an excellent piece with 2 fingers up to the woke guardian. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/dec/18/scotland-controversial-proposed-gender-reforms

    That has to be the most dishonest, cynical piece of editorial colour nailing since the Rangers fanzine aka the Herald decided that it would be “pro-independence” in its Sunday edition, screaming Yoon for the rest of the week.

    The Observer is simply The Guardian On Sunday, and all the journalistic gymnastics in the world is never going to disguise the fact it’s the same woke hivemind hyper-middle class lunatic cult behind it, no matter how much they want to have their cake and eat it.

  54. Dorothy Devine
    Ignored
    says:

    F.M is feeling pity for Jeremy Clarkson as she cannot understand the degree of hatred expressed by him.

    Ho bloody ho!

  55. Willie
    Ignored
    says:

    Certainly looks like the SNP are focussed towards losing support by promoting policies the majority of people oppose.

    It is highly, highly unusual for any political party to make itself unpopular introducing legislation like this. Political parties try to gain support, not lose it

    The GRA is an example of a party trying to lose its popularity and it is not difficult to see how the SNP is not an independence party but rather a party weaponised against independence.

    Interesting statistics indeed Rev Stu.

  56. Linda McFarlane
    Ignored
    says:

    Hi Ruby,

    Both The Equality Act 2010 and the GRA 2004 are UK legislation and so reserved to Westminster.
    Sturgeon’s GRRB would be Holyrood Legislation and therefore Scotland ONLY.
    Court of Session says GRRB means men change their sex if they Self Identify.
    Problem: is that the GRA and the Equality Act do not define IN LAW the terms Man, Woman, Male, Woman OR SEX.
    Solution: Define these Terms.

    New Laws have to take cogniscance of EXISTING LAW. This is why Kemi Badenoch is heving a word in Sturgeon’s Ear, and has said that she may strike down GRRB.

    We are still UK citizens and should be covered by the protections under the Equality Act but won’t if the GRRB is passed into law.

    The petition I support is also supported by Maya Forstater, Dr Em, LGB Alliance etc. and I believe will reach 100,000 and will lead to a debate which will amend the GRA 2004 and the Equality ACT 2010. Defining the terms Man, Woman, Male, Female and Sex, will also prevent Sturgeon coming back for another bite.

  57. Unwokey Blokey
    Ignored
    says:

    SNP voters hate women basically because Sturgeon told them to. You would think after the supreme court ruling those dafties that have bought her constant carrot dangling would have learned that letting Sturgeon get away with whatever she wants without question for the sake of Indy has done and continues to do more damage to the independence movement than any unionist could.

    Then again we are talking about the same supporters that either openly attacked Salmond online or sat by and said nothing as certain elements within the SNP set out to destroy the man that turned the SNP from a fringe party to the party of power.

    Had it not been for the fact Sturgeon lost the system breaking majority Salmond had won then she wouldn’t have had to dance to Harvie and Slater’s tune on this ridiculous gender nonsense.

    That’s bad enough but when you have numpties like Dugdale stating things like “Those that don’t believe changing sex is possible” in an article for the times you know the country is completely Fd and already too far down this gender rabbit hole.

  58. James Che
    Ignored
    says:

    Just Scotland?

    In 2018 DR MacKereth was not hired by the United Kingdoms Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) because he refused to use PGPs for transgender individuals, saying it was against his religion,
    The employment panel ruled that his views were “incompatible with human dignity” and therefore the DWP had not violated the equality Act [ 61] [62]

    There are many lawsuits and court cases around the world on this issue of gender pronouns.
    The equalities Act is global,

    And seeing that the UK government have brought it in for the whole of UK,
    It would be surprising if any ( challenges ) actually came from those quarters.

    Perhaps Scotland is the testing grounds for gender laws, similar to the poll tax legislation.

  59. James Che
    Ignored
    says:

    The Devolved government is under UK legislation,
    Scots laws are by passed in the Devolved government,

    We have no Scottish parliament to set or pass Scots Laws since 1707,
    The snp and the devolved government passing laws into Scotland from else where is to be expected.

  60. akenaton
    Ignored
    says:

    The driving force behind SNP women is not only stupidity(turkeys voting for Xmas), but the blatant misandry which drove the AS inquiry and united these females, lesbians and a huge swathe of disgruntled middle aged women, who feel disenfranchised by nature and male domination.
    Unionists say that Nationalists have an irrational hatred of the English……But SNP women just hate men.
    Sturgeon or someone close to her worked this out years ago and have used it to keep their feet under the table. But it is atwo sided sword and may indeed be her downfall in the end.

  61. James Che
    Ignored
    says:

    The Snp have no foothold in Scotland without the legislation of the devolved government backing them.

  62. robertkknight
    Ignored
    says:

    Much to draw from this…

    Having been infiltrated by biology denying zealots, Sturgeon’s rancid SNP has poisoned the well from which “YES” once drank. Anyone with a modicum of common sense and decency has abandoned the party, leaving only the weak and feeble minded WGD types, i.e. those who would feast upon their own excrement if commanded to do so by the Dear Leader.

    It is also clear that the SNP cannot afford for Scotland to become independent, for as a ‘business’ they are completely in thrall to Westminster and the cash which flows from there to SNP HQ. Loans involving the chief and £600k war chests being “interwoven” through accounts are not symptomatic of a party in financial rude health.

    SNP MPs themselves are the very definition of turkeys voting for Christmas, for in the event of Indy being achieved, the battle between SNP MPs and MSPs for limited seats at Holyrood would be biblical. None therefore are in a hurry to surrender £85k p.a plus expenses, plus employment opportunities for friends/relatives/partners, just because you or I place a cross in the box on a ballot paper.

    Simply put, don’t trust the SNP, don’t fund the SNP, don’t support the SNP, don’t vote SNP. Support any and every other pro-Indy body, but not Sturgeon’s rancid SNP, for it is they who are the biggest obstacle to Indy, and it is they who will seek to hobble any future campaign for Indy.

  63. Vivian O’Blivion
    Ignored
    says:

    Dugdale may be a drooling imbecile, but she’s an extremely well remunerated drooling imbecile.
    Salary as Director of the John Smith Centre for Public Service believed to have carried over her salary as an MSP – £64k.
    Salary for a no-show position as a Professor of Practice in Public Service (now don’t laugh) at the University of Glasgow (a position she’s neither qualified of experienced to fulfill) – £65.4k (starting salary zone 1).
    Weekly column in The Courier since April 2021 – unknown.
    De facto, monthly column in the Times (Scottish edition) – unknown.

    You may very well ask why the annual accounts for the John Smith Centre for Public Service (as filed with the Scottish Government controlled, Office of the Scottish Charity Regulator) are more than three years out of date.
    You may wonder who funds this sinister, political influencing op.?
    You may wonder why the Scottish Government conspires to keep this information hidden from the public (contrary to the law)?
    You may wonder why the Board of the JSCfPS is curiously trans-Atlantic?
    You may wonder why the Board of the JSCfPS and its sibling outfit, The John Smith Trust is populated by individuals with historical links to the Anglo-American Security State?

    Taking Jenny Gilruth’s £98k salary as Transport Minister into account, the Dugdale / Gilruth hoosehold must be coining in something in the region of £250k p.a..
    No bad for a couple of Politics graduates.
    Gilruth and Dugdale never looked back after they were touched by the magic hand of the US State Department via its International Visitors Leadership Programme.
    You may wonder how Gilruth came to be in Washington as part of an IVLP delegation 35 working days after being sworn in a a rookie MSP?
    They two ‘ill no be “feelin’ the squeeze”.

  64. Breeks
    Ignored
    says:

    ”This is why both the Equality and Human Rights Commission and the UN Special Rapporteur on violence against women and girls have urged the Scottish government to pause on this legislation.”

    Let that sink in a moment.

    Anybody who believes we haven’t been the victims of a cynical eight year long campaign to sabotage Scottish Independence is a fool.

    Sturgeon should be impeached and put on trial for Treason, although picking a judge to preside would pose some awkward questions…

  65. wull
    Ignored
    says:

    Susan, if you have identified as a brain surgeon, and I accept you as such, I want to consult you in your field of expertise, that is to say, on a very serious brain issue:

    Can the brainless self-identify as brainy?

    In addition, is becoming an MSP / MP on the SNP ticket and supporting the SNP’s Gender Recognition Reform Bill sufficient proof that this identity change has taken place, without having to live in the new ‘brainy identity’ for 3 months (since 3 months – even 3 minutes – of being-brainy would be too much for most of these brainless wonders!)?

    More seriously, there is a real difference between the self-identifying gender-change issue and those who are physically or biologically ‘inter-sex’. The term ‘inter-sex’ no doubt needs clear biological definition, such that it can be used in legal acts with a clear and correct meaning.

    Those affected are no doubt an extremely minute proportion of the population. I know very little about this, but have the impression that they too will suffer unjustly and greatly from the confusion which Nicola Sturgeon’s proposed legislation will inaugurate and impose.

    While that legislation puts biological women in danger and at risk more than anyone else, the whole of society will suffer from this. This is a power grab by the state. It takes away parents’ rights and responsibilities in regard to children on basic and vital issues, transferring these to the state and its law enforcement officers. This is just the beginning: its logical consequence is that it will become a crime to bring up male children as boys so that they grow up and become men, or female children as girls so that they likewise grow up to become real women.

    The state giving itself the ability to impose drugs to prevent various aspects of these natural developments from taking place is not new. Twentieth Century totalitarian regimes all used such methods. Similar medical practices also arose in the West’s so-called liberal democracies – Britain and the USA included.

    None of us would ever have thought that this could ever happen in Scotland. That only shows how naive we are, and historically ill-informed. No one would have believed in the 1910s that what happened in Germany from the 1930s onwards could ever happen there. The fact is there is an evil tendency within human beings which can always, even very suddenly, take on massive proportions. Give it an inch and it will seek to take a mile; give it a mile and it won’t be long till it has taken thousands upon thousands, even millions of miles.

    Just because we are Scots does not make us any more exempt from that tendency than anyone else. We now know that Holyrood was set up in a disgracefully inept way, which failed to maintain the proper and required distinction between the legislative and executive powers, indeed between government, magistrates, and law enforcement officers. That leaves us more vulnerable than ever to that tendency towards evil which lies deep down within all human beings – even though we always kid ourselves on by seeing it in others, and not in ourselves (even though it is always there). Something that everyone has to work at not activating, otherwise anyone – even the nicest of people – can be swept away by it.

    This reform bill has to be stopped in its tracks. If it isn’t, we will be further down that road which isn’t a road – it’s a slippery slope which gets increasingly steep and rapid each time you go further down it, a helter-skelter which speeds up exponentially from one second to the next. What is at stake here is actually more important than independence, and supporting these obviously evil fallacies of the SNP executive in Holyrood so as not to damage the independence cause is the biggest illusion of the lot.

    You don’t let the government go berserk on the population so that the country can become independent, and the population free. That is a contradiction in terms. If the end is just, the means have to be just as well. Just ends are never achieved by unjust means; the unjust means pervert the end, and turn what would have been good into the opposite of good. There is no point in us becoming independent if we have all supported insanity – and in the process become insane ourselves – in order to do it.

  66. Stoker
    Ignored
    says:

    PacMan says on 19 December, 2022 at 1:19 pm:

    “I’m sure I had read somewhere recently that there was UK union officials who had self-identified as ‘transracial’ in order to get round quota’s for equal representation of ethnic minorities. Does anybody know if that is true or just fake news?”

    No idea but i did find this from last year:

    ‘Members can identify as black, disabled or female, university union insists’ https://archive.vn/Ikvvt

  67. Big Jock
    Ignored
    says:

    Smitty – You have to remember who Dugdale’s partner is. She will probably agree with her partner, because she is in the SNP. There is now a fag paper (no pun intended) between Labour and SNP, on general policies. Both have lost the plot.

    The SNP,the party of independence, or they used to be. Now they are the party of fetish accommodation, and bat shit crazy ideology.

    Yet where else can independence voters go in a general election. Do we not vote and let Tories in, or vote for a minority party and help unionists. Remember any slip in support for indi parties will be a gift to unionists, and find the SNP scurrying back to HQ again.

    We know the SNP have no intention of delivering independence, but even if just by name alone. They are the national party of Scotland. This is the terrible stranglehold Sturgeon has us in. She has manipulated voters and changed the SNP into a party of devolution.

  68. Skip_NC
    Ignored
    says:

    I was sitting here in my office in North Carolina trying to figure out why the SNP would wish to pursue a policy that is, seemingly, a vote loser. I wonder if we are seeing the Americanisation of Scottish politics, ie, speak to your base. Increasingly, in US elections, it is all about turning out your base. You want “your” people to get off their backsides and saunter along to the polling places and vote for “your” candidates. American politicians, certainly the big two parties, act as if they own your vote and that they just have to scare you enough to get out and vote, essentially, against the other candidate.

    Maybe that’s been happening for years in Scotland already. I’ve been away from Scotland full-time since 1988 and on another continent for the last 20+. However, this feels different. This is not the first poll to show the general direction of travel away from the SNP leadership’s position.

    Finally, may I express my undying gratitude to our Supreme Overlord, Rev Stuart Campbell, leader of our Cult for allowing someone as unworthy as me to freely express my view.

  69. Liz
    Ignored
    says:

    Re young people are fools.
    The current lot of young people have had a very priviledged life, apart from the poor, of course.
    Their every whim and desire is catered to, they have grown up in a liberal time, gay, black, womens, lesbians rights all accepted.

    They have no clue, especially the silly wee girls, what life was like for women in the 70s.

    Watched an old TV prog on telly, the womens husband had left her and the 3 kids.
    The house was in his name, so his house, he’d taken out a loan with house as security, building society repossessed the house, she had no right to it, even though she contributed to the payments.

    Her single, working sister offered to support a loan to keep the house, BSs, banks wouldn’t give a loan to a single women.
    She + 3 kids got evicted.

    Also GRR, currently rejected by at least 50% of the population, more if DKs are excluded, means the Scot gov do not have the permission of the people to proceed.
    Under the CoR, we should be able to get rid of that bunch of useless nutters.

    Lab playing a dangerous game, their supporters are not happy.

    I despise how thick, stupid, dense our current lot are

  70. Big Jock
    Ignored
    says:

    Liz. I suppose it can be partly explained by Holyrood not being independent.

    Politicians in Holyrood do not preoccupy their time with normal national and international matters. So left to fester, they become obsessed with niche fetishes and personal agendas.

    The parliament is parochial and immature. The SNP leadership have lost their way. When the state starts get involved in peoples personal lives, then it needs to be have it’s snout trimmed back. I believe we are heading down a dark alley. We don’t have a leader. We have a Pied Piper with lemmings in her shadow.

  71. Republicofscotland
    Ignored
    says:

    Vivian @3.01 pm.

    Excellent comment Vivian.

    You just have too look at the board of the JSC to know somethings not right.

    https://www.johnsmithcentre.com/about-us/our-board/

    Strikingly the head of the Growth Commission Andrew Wilson sits on the board, and he is also a founding Partner of Charlotte Street Partners. Wilson was also a member of the Independent Commission on Referendums based at (UCL’s) University College London Constitution Unit.

  72. Kelpie
    Ignored
    says:

    Linda McFarlane says:
    19 December, 2022 at 2:06 pm

    Problem: is that the GRA and the Equality Act do not define IN LAW the terms Man, Woman, Male, Woman OR SEX.

    Solution: Define these Terms.

    The Equality Act does define sex. It says that man means “a male of any age” and woman means “a female of any age”, written at a time when the terms male and female were universally understood to refer to biological sex. The problem is that the trans lobby just change the meaning they ascribe to words and push everyone else to agree. Hence, as someone points out up-thread, you have men claiming to be “biological females”.

    The solution is to take the meanings of the words back, any attempt to add an extra layer of definition is just adopted by the trans as an extra definition they will claim applies to them.

  73. Republicofscotland
    Ignored
    says:

    It sounds to me here, that Kezia Dugdale thinks many women support the unamended GRR’s and that other women who don’t support it, are the real problem.

    “From where I sit, it is the women who support this legislation who find themselves voiceless: women who have watched the colours green, white and purple, the symbols of universal suffrage, be appropriated by a cause they don’t support,” she said. ”

    https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thenational.scot%2Fnews%2F23200156.kezia-dugdale-populist-tactics-used-gender-reform-opponents%2F

  74. Ruby
    Ignored
    says:

    Linda McFarlane says:
    19 December, 2022 at 2:06 pm

    Hi Ruby,

    Both The Equality Act 2010 and the GRA 2004 are UK legislation and so reserved to Westminster.
    Sturgeon’s GRRB would be Holyrood Legislation and therefore Scotland ONLY.
    Court of Session says GRRB means men change their sex if they Self Identify.
    Problem: is that the GRA and the Equality Act do not define IN LAW the terms Man, Woman, Male, Woman OR SEX.
    Solution: Define these Terms.

    Good Luck with that. I don’t have a problem signing that petition but still prefer this one

    https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/628382

    It’s simpler.

  75. Alf Baird
    Ignored
    says:

    Having read Shona Robison’s bletherin bill I was struck by the very numerous mentions of courts and sheriffs there are in it. As well as dividing the independence movement this needless legislation also seems intended to keep the legal establishment and jails busy, and by implication the fowk doun-hauden, much as might be expected from a colonial administration.

    https://www.parliament.scot/-/media/files/legislation/bills/s6-bills/gender-recognition-reform-scotland-bill/introduced/bill-as-introduced.pdf

  76. Brian Doonthetoon
    Ignored
    says:

    This shows the type of behaviour that Sturgeon and Robison have no knowledge of. When you see the page, click on “Not now” then watch the video.

    https://twitter.com/Andreia_O_Nobre/status/1604581398215548931

  77. Tinto Chiel
    Ignored
    says:

    If this bill is enacted, it won’t matter that Labour, the LibDems and Greens also voted for it, it will be the Scottish Government which will quite rightly rouse the ire of the voters once they realise what a steaming pile of ordure it is.

    How could women trust the SNP over anything ever again, Little Miss “Feminist to my Fingertips”?

    This woke nonsense has obviously been chosen as the wrecking-ball for our independence and, as Vivian O’Blivion has said @3.01, the American International Visitors’ Leadership Programme has been influential in orienting our political class to pernicious transatlantic woke (and other) ideas. I remember a while ago The Rev had photographs of a group of them from across the Scottish political spectrum posing happily on a campus across the herring pond.

    Imagine having to pin our hopes on a Tory minister putting a stop to all this utter dreck.

  78. Dan
    Ignored
    says:

    @ Tinto

    A reminder of who else was there…

    https://wingsoverscotland.com/all-the-jolly-boys-and-girls/

  79. Dan2
    Ignored
    says:

    I mean the question in the poll isn’t very nuanced and doesn’t tell us much. Definitely not what Stu claims anyway.

    I’m not for or against it currently. I don’t know enough to make an educated decision so don’t tar me with some generic brush please.

    However. Perhaps people who say there is a risk are thinking in a more nuanced way such as – ‘maybe there could be some safety issues in a tiny amount of cases but the benefits to other people’s mental health outweighs the cons. Less suicides etc etc’.

    Whether this is correct or not, many are probably thinking like this. Rather than ‘mwahahah, let’s get this pushed through so more women can be raped’.

    Come on now

  80. Breeks
    Ignored
    says:

    Bottom line is, we’ve been very casual about letting stupid people into positions of authority, and without the appropriate means for holding them to account.

    Thing is, if you’re so sloppy about allowing stupid people to progress through the system and secure promotion, what else are you allowing to enter your political system that becomes inordinately difficult to remove?

    We have an “assembly” with no impeachment protocols codified in law, nor indeed any safeguarding whatsoever of Scotland’s Constitutional Rights. Holyrood is so obviously Westminster’s project that it’s painful to look at it.

    The irony is, the exposure of Holyrood as a puppet UK Assembly is being presented as a “successful” subjugation of Scotland’s interests, and an IndyRef process effectively brought to an end. But this simply isn’t true.

    Scotland’s Constitutional Sovereignty, the Claim of (Sovereign) Right, is not impacted at all by any constraints put on Holyrood. Holyrood is all theatre; a bogus soap opera which doesn’t stand up to scrutiny.

    Every Scottish MP sent down to London should be walking the corridors of Westminster power, glowing like a kid on readybrek, secure in the certain knowledge they answer to the sovereign people of Scotland, and that Westminster does not have the Constitutional authority to overrule Scotland’s sovereign will. “That” is the fallback position for EVERY Scottish MP.

    It isn’t enough just to mouth the words and leave it at that. Scotland’s Sovereign integrity MUST be defended, and there MUST be weighty consequences whenever Scotland’s Sovereign integrity is even remotely compromised. Not just talk, but meaningful consequence.

    It is my current belief, that while Kenny MacAskill and Neale Hanvey certainly give us hope, realistically there simply isn’t enough belief in the SNP politicians sent to London to further Scotland’s Independence. Virtually to the last, they are all paid up members of the Westminster system and their way of doing things. It seems not one of them have any faith in Scotland’s sovereign integrity.

    We don’t need excitable rebels, we need grim and obdurate individuals who are willing to challenge Westminster time, after time, after time, with the same unshakeable conviction that Scotland’s Sovereignty cannot be overruled by Westminster, because Westminster ceases to be sovereign the moment their “power” enters the Realm of Scotland. That is the Constitutional truth! Let Westminster understand that the Claim of Right which they pay lip service to, actually has a proper and binding hold upon them.

    That means being awkward, being stubborn, forcing through ultimatum after ultimatum, and meaningful ramifications whenever Westminster strays outside it’s jurisdiction.

    Joanna Cherry has done it. She defeated Westminster on their home territory, but yet she doesn’t seem to comprehend the enormous significance of what she did, because nothing followed on from it. She stopped at prorogation. Why oh why didn’t she keep unseating Westminster’s authority wherever else it clashed with Scotland’s Constitutional doctrines? She could have had Westminster tied up in knots, and provided every single UK citizen with a blunt education about Scotland’s Constitutional strength.

    That the SNP under Sturgeon have sold out Scotland, and bought into the lie of Westminster Parliamentary Sovereignty ought to have every Scottish Patriot and defender of Scotland spinning in their graves.

    The future fight must continue under Scotland’s Red Sovereignty, where the people of Scotland are in the driving seat, and know and understand the meaning and purpose of the Claim of Right. Westminster is NOT sovereign in the Realm of Scotland.

  81. Dan2
    Ignored
    says:

    and there’s a much better breakdown than I could ever do on ScotGoesPop

  82. KT Lorimer
    Ignored
    says:

    Dan2 why are you commenting if you know nothing about the subject?

  83. Shug
    Ignored
    says:

    Point of interest I have friends in Germany struggling with the same issues and also the impact on their grammar.

    It is not all Nicola but is making a pigs ear if it.

    The clip of her not knowing about the film at Edinburgh uni was a real laugh she looks so shifty

  84. Ruby
    Ignored
    says:

    Dan2 says:
    19 December, 2022 at 5:31 pm

    and there’s a much better breakdown than I could ever do on ScotGoesPop

    🙂

  85. Dan2
    Ignored
    says:

    KT because you can know nothing about the subject and still know what a bias poll is or a BS reporting of a poll.

  86. Liz
    Ignored
    says:

    @dan2 fairly obvious from your comments you know nothing about GRR.

    Currently a TIM, Katie Dalotowski sexual predator of children, is housed in a women’s prison because he is deemed too dangerous to be in a men’s prison, yes you read that right.

    Scotland will be a sexual deviants tourist destination if self ID goes ahead

  87. twathater
    Ignored
    says:

    @ smitty 12.01pm I disagree with your promotion of Ruth wishart as a wise person who people should take note of and listen too
    Is this the same wishart that was and still is a sycophantic apologist for sturgeon the betrayer, as you will note she is NOT opposing the bill but merely putting forward accommodations that us dissenters might want to peruse and work towards , I suppose that is for her a movement, for previously her contributions were all about supporting nikla the great one who could do no wrong

    What is it about people that they cannot celebrate the cause that they support they have to assign a reverence and sainthood to the temporary leader of that cause , it is sickening and frustrating in equal measure that people are so easily fooled by fake persuasive con artists such as sturgeon

    Ruth Wishart is a supposed journalist with a wealth of worldly experience one would assume from her job and her age yet she cannot see through the lies and corrupt manipulation of a deviant narcissist

  88. Shug
    Ignored
    says:

    It will be interesting to see what Flynn does now McDonald has been removed.

    Supporting NATO is essential given the neighbours we have and the support we need from the USA.
    .
    If he moves against NATO then the Nicola team are out to lose the referandum.

  89. Dan2
    Ignored
    says:

    Liz as usual you didn’t read what I wrote. FFS you folk are unbearable.

    I said. This MIGHT BE WHAT OTHERS THINK! I even said I know nothing about the issue.

    The whole point of this article is that SNP voters hate women.. Let’s avoid the point that Stu’s poll analysis is absolute bollocks. See the scotgoespop post I mentioned.

    What I was saying was, his analysis of voters intent is also utter BS. Maybe they don’t understand the issue. Maybe there is more nuance in there answers as the questioning was vague as fuck.

  90. Dan2
    Ignored
    says:

    Shug. Salmond is against NATO to you know?

    As am I?

    So do you think we should pretend to be for it and then change our minds after we win? Or are you genuinely for it?

  91. Ruby
    Ignored
    says:

    Dan2 says:
    19 December, 2022 at 5:55 pm
    See the scotgoespop post I mentioned.

    🙂

  92. Bob Mack
    Ignored
    says:

    Dan2.

    You folk? What does that mean Dan. The ones that don’t follow the party line?

  93. JGedd
    Ignored
    says:

    Re Stuart Mackay’s comment @ 10am

    I would tend to agree that, just like Labour before them, the SNP is a bit sniffy about working class voters. ( Labour under Blair and Brown even went so far as to re-define them as ‘underclass’ and ‘aspirational working class’ making it easier for targeting their message. It was also about dividing and ruling which elites always do and it was evident that Labour saw themselves as part of the elite establishment.)

    Dugdale displays that same sense of middle class superiority, sneering at ‘populism’, the favourite derogatory comment of the pretendy ‘progressives’ to which she believes she belongs. It is true that these people, often referred to erroneously as ‘left-wing’ when their instincts are distinctly authoritarian and elitist, hide behind the illusion that they are actually left-wing, helped by the media who describe them as such.

    However, due to the strange transformation common to the privileged middle-class university-educated of the present generation of feather-brained politicians, ‘left-wing’ does not mean what it did. They have gladly junked all that concern for the conditions of those pesky poor people in favour of trendy social issues. Behind that mask of ‘social progressiveness’ they can embrace neo-liberal policies and dump all pretensions of being concerned about tiresome issues like poverty.

    Hence why Stuart Mackay’s comment is perfectly valid when applied to SNP voters many of whom can also express their lofty dislike of populism, and indulge their prejudice against the marginalized poor while thinking of themselves as ‘kind’ and tolerant, though supporting a movement which is anything but ‘kind’ and ‘tolerant’.

    Many Tories of course feel the same disdain for the working class but here, in this issue, they can be relied upon to support the status quo which in this case happens to be the common sense view, since they are untroubled by being thought ‘progressive.’ Their traditional conservatism has saved them from surrendering to evident, unscientific nonsense

    There is nothing progressive about the GRR legislation. It is, in fact, regressive and risky, and will bear down most heavily on working class women. Just like their enthusiasm for neo-liberalism with the SNP, we are going backwards.

  94. PacMan
    Ignored
    says:

    Stoker says: 19 December, 2022 at 3:22 pm

    No idea but i did find this from last year:

    ‘Members can identify as black, disabled or female, university union insists’ https://archive.vn/Ikvvt

    Thanks Stoker. I think I saw it on a post on the Graham Linehan site but it does highlight how the woke culture is turning out where white men will self-identify either with a different gender or race to get around quotas that is supposed to help historically disadvantaged groups.

    While there is a lot of attention of the immeditate and dangerous problems caused by this legislation, there is little focus on the unitended consequences of it through things like this.

  95. Robert Hughes
    Ignored
    says:

    ” Supporting NATO is essential given the neighbours we have and the support we need from the USA.
    .
    If he moves against NATO then the Nicola team are out to lose the referandum. ”

    What does any of this mean ? What neighbours are you referring to , England ?

    What ” support ” do ” we ” get from the USA ?

    Who is ” he ” , who might move against NATO ?

    If you’re referring to Flynn , there’s not a chance of him moving against NATO , even less Sturgeon doing so . Or for that matter Flynn moving against Sturgeon

  96. twathater
    Ignored
    says:

    @ Breeks 5.29pm I definitely agree with you with regards to allowing stupid people into positions of power in Scotland, but I believe a bigger threat to our everyday lives is the progressive pish mentality forced on us by well meaning folk, but highjacked and stolen by manipulative bastards whose only interpretation of progressive is purely based on how it can be utilised for their own self serving benefit
    When you look at the governance of Scotland over the last few decades it has been absolutely woeful, the ONLY near competent governance was by Salmond all the rest were pitiful, every liebour govt.were worse than the previous one and this snp one is a serious challenger for top place , yet people cannot see that , everything sturgeon , swinney ,humza useless,Shirley Anne shit for brains and robison has touched has turned to SHITE, yet people like Ruth wishart celebrate and support them

  97. PacMan
    Ignored
    says:

    Brian Doonthetoon says: 19 December, 2022 at 4:37 pm

    This shows the type of behaviour that Sturgeon and Robison have no knowledge of. When you see the page, click on “Not now” then watch the video.

    https://twitter.com/Andreia_O_Nobre/status/1604581398215548931

    Is this behaviour caused by mental health issues, misogyny, massive selfish sense of entitlement or a mixture of all three?

  98. Ruby
    Ignored
    says:

    What about all these poor souls who are told they can change sex just my saying the words. I swear I will tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I am an adult human female.

    Are they going to be happy with just a certificate? A certificate isn’t going to cure anything.

    It won’t be enough they will need hormones, breast implants, penis removal, laser hair removal extensive plastic surgery and never ending hospital visits due to side effects of all the surgeries and drugs.

    Trans rights are human rights.

    Are the NHS in good enough shape to cope with all the trans rights?

  99. Susan
    Ignored
    says:

    Ruby, if no medical diagnosis is needed then it is not appropriate for NHS resources to be used for these people. They can’t have it both ways and the NHS has better things to be focusing on than deviants.

  100. WhoRattledYourCage
    Ignored
    says:

    If you need a laugh in the voracious sucking Hell that is modern life, here’s a list of good and bad and ugly Christmas songs, courtesy of East Ayrshire. All the grimness is fucking getting to me, personally. This is from last year, so it’s a time capsule back to the good old days of face masks and cam intercourse. Plus ca change. I did that way stuff before the lockdown. And still do.

    https://whorattledyourcage.blogspot.com/2021/12/top-eleven-christmas-songs-of-2021.html

  101. Tinto Chiel
    Ignored
    says:

    @Dan 5.1: thanks! I felt you would probably have the correct reference in your compendious archive 🙂 .

    Liz @ 5.49: “Scotland will be a sexual deviants tourist destination if self ID goes ahead.” Probably: the Thailand of the north without the great street-food and interesting alphabet.

    Not a great believer in petitions myself but I would encourage as many as possible to join me and sign the parliamentary one Ruby has been punting on here for several days.

  102. Republicofscotland
    Ignored
    says:

    As Sturgeon via her GRR’s damages women rights, she had the chutzpah to jump on the Jeremy Clarkson row, professing to defend women, and the Britnat media in Scotland STV and BBC Scotland helped her out by giving the story top billing on their teatime flagship “news” programmes.

    It was too good an opportunity for Sturgeon to pass up, as the heat build son her unwanted in Scotland unamended GRR’s which are a danger to women and children.

  103. Ruby
    Ignored
    says:

    Do you think we had visit from James Goes Pop earlier?

  104. Republicofscotland
    Ignored
    says:

    David Hannah @6.33pm.

    Thanks for the link, Shaunyboy has Patrick Harvie down to a tee.

    Incidentally Harvie accepted a Ian Dunn memorial award, Dunn was a co-founder of (PIE) Paedophile Information Exchange.

  105. Skip_NC
    Ignored
    says:

    Ruby, yes.

  106. Ruby
    Ignored
    says:

    Susan says:
    19 December, 2022 at 6:31 pm

    Ruby, if no medical diagnosis is needed then it is not appropriate for NHS resources to be used for these people. They can’t have it both ways and the NHS has better things to be focusing on than deviants.

    They’ll commit suicide!

  107. John Main
    Ignored
    says:

    @ twathater says:19 December, 2022 at 6:14 pm

    everything sturgeon , swinney ,humza useless,Shirley Anne shit for brains and robison has touched has turned to SHITE

    Naw, TH, I can’t let that one go unchallenged.

    For starters, what about the baby boxes?

    And, and, I never cease to be impressed by the rebranding exercise that saw everything in Scotland changed from “NHS” to “SNHS” or an equivalent.

    Likely that did fuck all for medical outcomes, but still a few mills of taxpayer’s money well spent.

    Tell me I’m wrong.

  108. DaveL
    Ignored
    says:

    @Breeks

    Your post at 5.29 made me think for a moment that what we need in Westminster is the political equivalent of the Hanson Brothers…

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IUbn5ss8j9c

  109. Shug
    Ignored
    says:

    Genuine for it we need their protection from England in early years, providing bases ensures common approach.
    As I recall Salmond is in favour. If you are against it all NATO members will be against Scottish independence and you will be painted as left wing nutters impeding their mutual protection.
    If you join you will have some say if not you will be shut out and closed down

  110. Effijy
    Ignored
    says:

    Scotland will not be dragged out of gender biology facts against our will.

    Whoops it seem we are.

  111. Kcor
    Ignored
    says:

    Stoker says:
    19 December, 2022 at 9:31 am

    “The level of long-term damage Sturgeon has done to our attempts to take back our right of self-determination is too depressing to contemplate.”

    It is her aim to make independence totally unachievable.

  112. Kcor
    Ignored
    says:

    Breeks says:
    19 December, 2022 at 5:29 pm

    “Joanna Cherry has done it. She defeated Westminster on their home territory, but yet she doesn’t seem to comprehend the enormous significance of what she did, because nothing followed on from it. She stopped at prorogation. Why oh why didn’t she keep unseating Westminster’s authority wherever else it clashed with Scotland’s Constitutional doctrines? She could have had Westminster tied up in knots, and provided every single UK citizen with a blunt education about Scotland’s Constitutional strength.”

    Because Joann Cherry is a Nicola Sturgeon in waiting.

    She has achieved ZERO for independence since she became an SNP MP.

    Why is she still in the SNP?

  113. Stoker
    Ignored
    says:

    BBC in Scotland Text Service announcing Derek Bateman has died aged 71 after a short illness.

  114. Susan
    Ignored
    says:

    Ruby, my heart bleeds. Not.

  115. Kcor
    Ignored
    says:

    The “I am pro-independence, but — folks” are no different from the “I am a proud Scot, but — folks”, IMHO.

    Independence support has to be independent of any other consideration.

    Having said that, the best thing for the independence movement at present would be to ban every single SNP MP, MSP and councillor from it.

  116. Stoker
    Ignored
    says:

    Republicofscotland says on 19 December, 2022 at 6:47 pm:

    “As Sturgeon via her GRR’s damages women rights, she had the chutzpah to jump on the Jeremy Clarkson row, professing to defend women, and the Britnat media in Scotland STV and BBC Scotland helped her out by giving the story top billing on their teatime flagship “news” programmes.”

    The BBC in Scotland Text Service are also giving it their top billing. And they really do quote the skank as saying “words have consequences”. She’s got more front than Blackpool.

  117. Derek
    Ignored
    says:

    “Republicofscotland says on 19 December, 2022 at 6:47 pm:

    “..she had the chutzpah to jump on the Jeremy Clarkson row…””

    I suspect that the meeja went to her rather than the other way round, as Clarkson’s article mentioned both her and Rose West in the same sentence as Meghan Markle.

  118. Robert Hughes
    Ignored
    says:

    @ JGEDD

    ” Dugdale displays that same sense of middle class superiority, sneering at ‘populism’, the favourite derogatory comment of the pretendy ‘progressives’ to which she believes she belongs. It is true that these people, often referred to erroneously as ‘left-wing’ when their instincts are distinctly authoritarian and elitist, hide behind the illusion that they are actually left-wing, helped by the media who describe them as such.”

    Spot-on . Excellent post , J .

    Similarly , WTF is ” Cultural Marxism ” ?

    Whatever you think of Marx’s view of History , Class Struggle etc , I’m pretty sure Das Capital contained nothing about the Dictatorship of the Gender Fluid Proletariat .

    With a few notable exceptions eg… C Hedges , J Pilger , Y Varoufakis and others , the Left has left the planet , lost it’s Working Class identity in Identity and is about as Marxist as Harpo .

    Witness … Nu Labour & it’s rainbow tartan mirror image – Nu SnP , stuff-to-bursting with playdoh * Revolutionaries * whose idea of genuine hardship is not being able to * source * the most ideologically impeccable Fair Trade coffee . A joke .

  119. Ian Brotherhood
    Ignored
    says:

    Great to see JGedd back posting again, and good stuff from Breeks at 5.29. Also saw RonnieA posting yesterday.

    Feels like the Wings of yore is rising, building up fresh muscle…

    Arise ye lurkers!

    😉

  120. Wee Chid
    Ignored
    says:

    John Main says:
    19 December, 2022 at 10:59 am

    You missed out size – I’m identifying ass a size 8 and I demand the appropriate medical procedures that will make my body fit my image of my body.
    On the age part I’m identifying as 66 and claiming my pension now.
    Problem is I’m working class and have got used to people saying “no, you can’t do that” rather than having all my fantiasies affirmed by some middle class yummy mummy who thinks I’m “special”. Maybe you need to include class in that list as well?

  121. George Ferguson
    Ignored
    says:

    Exceptionally neutral, even bland reporting of the Robison and Badenoch meeting on GRRB on the BBC Scottish news. Robison give reassurance and Badenoch said the talks were constructive. Taking the heat out of the vote on Wednesday. Something is afoot.

  122. Ian Brotherhood
    Ignored
    says:

    The Twitter thread appears to be very much on-topic and it is ‘trending’.

    Maybe that’s a good thing?

    https://twitter.com/search?q=%22Maggie%20Chapman%22&src=trend_click&vertical=trends

  123. Maxxmacc
    Ignored
    says:

    I would guess that the entire Gender Choosing scenario was dreamed up by some right-wing think tank, as a way of diverting the left from issues where they are strong. Thus, the Gender Choosing road terminates in a dead-end, which ultimately steals power and more importantly votes from the left.

    Unsurprisingly the SNP has waded into the middle of this river and gawd only knows where it will take them. But we can be assured where it won’t take them – to independence! For the poll clearly shows that the policy is a major turn-off to voters whom we need to persuade to vote for Indy.

    Similarly, Labour may be well ahead in the English polls at the moment, but as more of their Gender Blender policies get trumpeted, the more conservative and older voters will turn away from them.

    The real roots of the new Gender movement may well have much darker beginnings, but that is for another site, and probably another time.

  124. Breeks
    Ignored
    says:

    twathater says:
    19 December, 2022 at 6:14 pm

    When you look at the governance of Scotland over the last few decades it has been absolutely woeful…

    I think that’s dead right.

    Scotland has a major problem with the calibre of people working in Local Government; untouchable rogues expert at nothing except milking the system and helping out their pals.

    It came as no surprise to me to see Swinney dodging the truth and frustrating reasonable inquiries. He’s an establishment man first and foremost… truth and justice not so much. I’d put Fergus Ewing in the same bracket.

    But there really is something rotten going on in Scottish Local Government. Sturgeon’s goons didn’t wake up one day knowing how to manipulate the system. They’ve been at it for years in the Local Government system. Same gravy train philosophy, always with jealousy guarded public funds of course, and despicable attitudes amongst crooked employees.

    Is it any surprise that our “government” is staffed with all the dross of the day? Granted, there are occasional bright lights of people blessed with genuine talent, but most of such people seem to be very lonely and under appreciated. That’s bound to be dispiriting and probably why they never last.

    You need talented people bouncing ideas around with other talented people, but how often do you see that happening?

    The problem becomes endemic because very quickly “honest” people wouldn’t be seen dead working for the Council, and there’s nobody to complain about the corruption and nepotism which fills the post. Once corruption is endemic and self renewing, I think we have a big problem purging it out the system.

    Just look at Holyrood and you see the end product.

  125. Breeks
    Ignored
    says:

    OT…

    Quite shocked to hear Derek Bateman has passed away at 71.

    I have a deep mistrust for anybody with BBC affiliations, but Derek Bateman was possibly the exception to the rule.

    Rest in peace Mr Bateman.

  126. Ian Brotherhood
    Ignored
    says:

    @Breeks (9.09) –

    Swinney has been coasting along, under the radar, ever since he surrendered the leadership.

    He lost the tache, got shot of all other scalp-hair, and became the Bruce Willis of Sturgeon’s Brave New Cabinet, aye ready to stick the nut on abody who dared question the mission.

    He’s nothing more than ‘the best of the worst’ – what the Scottish electorate became accustomed to under Labour, ‘New’ or otherwise.

    We’ll see how loyal and steadfast he is when she and her ‘husband’ appear in the dock.

    (Oh no, I forgot, they can’t end up in the dock together – double indemnity an aw that?! Shock fuckin horror!)

    Whit’ll we dae? Whit’ll we dae!?

    🙁 🙁 🙁

  127. George Ferguson
    Ignored
    says:

    @Ian Brotherhood 9:47pm
    Tell the Christian Institute that it was Swinney with his Mary Poppins meme that briefed against the Supreme Court judgement on Named Person the weekend after their deliberations in 2016. I should know it was me, that was on the receiving end of that diatribe. Still got that laptop. You will never guess who told me it was him.

  128. Ian Brotherhood
    Ignored
    says:

    @George Ferguson (10.06) –

    Noted.

    😉

  129. Viscount Ennui
    Ignored
    says:

    Breeks says:
    19 December, 2022 at 9:09 pm

    My God, Breeks! Those are my words! Have we led the same life? Are we the same person?
    That analysis of local government, the regulators, and virutally every civic institution is spot on.
    Loyalty before competence every time.
    Cronyism and corruption in abundance.
    Scotland in 2022.

  130. robertkknight
    Ignored
    says:

    Back in the day, as an SNP candidate in the local authority elections, it was well known that the Labour incumbent in my ward, (who still beat me into 2nd place but with a much reduced majority), was ‘on the square’.

    I firmly believe that membership of such organisations should automatically prevent individuals from holding any public office.

  131. Shug
    Ignored
    says:

    I am afraid we have to assume Sturgeon is compromised and her objective now is to put Scotland in the place of being accepted as part of a unitary state and not part if a union.
    Any historical or legal argument can be set aside by accepted use and practice and control of the courts by London.
    Once in such a position all referenda can be controlled by london and ignored.
    Therefore Nicola’s new task is to make any plebisitary a Westminster one with 50 percent of seats and votes with a super majority required for change it even just to allow Westminster to consider allowing a referendum at som we point.
    The only thing that can stop this now is for MPs and msps to dump her and they need to do it quick and clean

  132. And Spouse
    Ignored
    says:

    Confused.com at 9.02 this morning.
    Exactly how I feel. Do I want the present SNP to take the lead. Nope. But how can we get a change in leadership and weed out the bacteria that will make Scotland an awful place. How will the situation run its course after we are Indy? The people in present power will set the rules and we’re awe fkt.
    How did we get here?

  133. Ruby
    Ignored
    says:

    https://www.holyrood.com/news/view,un-experts-disagree-on-impacts-of-gender-recognition-reforms

    Scottish Government concerned that amendments could scupper gender reforms

  134. McDuff
    Ignored
    says:

    To the best of my knowledge this has never been properly debated on television so really a significant number of the thick population haven`t a clue what its all about.

  135. George Ferguson
    Ignored
    says:

    @Ruby 11:07pm
    The Robison vs Badenoch meeting and the reporting of that meeting suggested a delay. I have absolutely no evidence to that effect. Just a feeling on how the reporting has changed. The SNP has ruined the last 2 Christmases and should want to avoid a 3rd Christmas. Sticking my neck out to predict a delay in the GRRB. We will see.

  136. Ruby
    Ignored
    says:

    Trans people are up to four times as likely to be the victim of a violent crime as cis people. The #GRR bill will not solve this problem, but it will help make their lives a little easier. Maggie Chapman

    This bill will not stop the violence but they will get a certificate.

    Why don’t they look at the cause of the violence. I would suggest claiming ‘transwomen are women’ might be the root cause of the violence.

    A certificate is not going to help when a heterosexual man discovers the woman he’s kissing has a penis.

    My problem with Maggie Chapman, Nicola Sturgeon, Shona Robinson, Kezia Dugdale is that they all seem very naive, not what you would call very worldly.

  137. Hatuey
    Ignored
    says:

    Out of interest, has a new category of person ever been considered as a solution? For example, toilets and changing rooms specifically for trans people, with that sort of logic applied across the board to sports, prisons, jobs, etc?

    Before anyone bites my head off, I’m not saying I support the idea; I’m just wondering if it has ever been considered? If so, why was it dismissed?

    I guess at the root of the question I’m wondering if it would be possible to accommodate the demands of trans people without compromising on the rights of women… I suspect trans people themselves would hate the idea?

  138. David Hannah
    Ignored
    says:

    https://thecritic.co.uk/neither-marginalised-abused-nor-vulnerable/

    Neither stigmatised, nor marginalised nor vulnerable.

    I’ve read a few articles in this subject. This one sticks in my mind. You hear Sturgeon hitting out with the phrase, “most stigamitised, traumatised, group”

    The opposite is true. The trans group are the most priveleged victim group in society without doubt.

    Denise Findlay, I read her blog article Be Kind. One of the most powerful blogs I’ve read on the subject, I’ll say it’s the best one I’ve read. Be kind while woman are gaslight by gender ideology.

    https://www.denisefindlay.org/post/be-kind

    The trans group are the most priveleged group in society.

    Put me down as anti woke politics. I like the old ways when men stood up for women, that men protected women. It’s within our DNA to do so.

    What’s happened to the men within the Greens and the SNP?

    I know exactly what’s happened. Generation Z have been poisoned by social media, tik tok. Dumbed down, had their opportunites stolen by austerity. The libraries shut, their windows to the world. Replaced by Tik Tok screen time, pharmaceutical companies warping the minds. There’s a lot wrong with the World. This gender ideology is right up there. It won’t last. It is the next alfentynal crisis.

    Sturgeon of course can’t read the room. She can’t.

  139. David Hannah
    Ignored
    says:

    Nicola wants to turn Scotland into a transgender country like Northern Ireland.

    Irish yet self Identifying as British. You know it makes sense.

    She must fail. We know she likes to self identify as British while singing God save the Queen. I don’t.

    Get sturgeon out. Get her in the bin. She’s no feminist, she’s a bunny boiler. There’s something not right with Nicola. Cloth eared Nicola, can you hear us?

  140. Wilson McBride
    Ignored
    says:

    All the pleading and shouting at the SNP is not going to stop this Gender Bill becoming law on Wednesday.

    The best we can hope for is for it to cause such a backlash amongst the general public, that it speeds up the demise of Sturgeon.

    For instance, when sex offences start being committed solely due to men having access to female safe spaces.

    It is not something I want to happen,, I am saying it probably will start happening because of this new law.

    And the buck stops with Sturgeon.

    I am personally hoping somebody has packed her Xmas crackers with explosives, so when her and Peter go to pull their crackers, it blows their fuckin nuts off

    I know it’s a long shot, but I’m allowed to dream.

  141. Wilson McBride
    Ignored
    says:

    That should have read,

    “… their nuts off the tree.”

    Sorted.

  142. Breeks
    Ignored
    says:

    Viscount Ennui says:
    19 December, 2022 at 10:36 pm

    Loyalty before competence every time.
    Cronyism and corruption in abundance.
    Scotland in 2022.

    I lost my faith permanently when having proof, actual black and white, irrefutable written evidence proving my grievance was absolutely true, was “circumvented” by addressing themselves to an alternative grievance altogether.

    It was a bit like having cast iron proof of a murder, only for the “authorities” to come back dismissing your case saying they could find no evidence of burglary whatsoever.

    Of course you protest, “again”, only to be told they have nothing to add to the answer you’ve been given. Tossers.

    Aye Swinney has form alright, and created a lingering bitterness and disillusion. Not to mention anger when he’s touted as “honest John, the decent fella”.

  143. twathater
    Ignored
    says:

    Ruth Wishart states “The government’s consultation exercise, on its own admission, found “a small ­majority” of organisations supported the proposed legislation. In fact five out of 10 plus one ambivalent. Four were ­opposed.
    The conclusions of the ­individual ­responses are not recorded.

    WHY were the conclusions of the INDIVIDUAL responses not recorded ( which is bullshit) the individual responses WERE recorded but sturgeon REFUSED REPEATEDLY to release them ( I wonder why that would be )maybe it came under the catchall of (not in the publics interest) my arse

    At the time I continuously commented online my OUTRAGE that sturgeon had opened up the consultation WORLDWIDE to enable persons and organisations with a vested interest in the legislation to support the legislation and skew and gerrymander the resultant responses

    WTAF had it to do with anyone other than the Scottish people to decide on the outcome of this legislation, PEOPLE could and did MANIPULATE the outcome of the consultation , PEOPLE who had never been to Scotland, PEOPLE who may NEVER even visit Scotland, PEOPLE who may not even know where Scotland is or cannot even point to it on a map, THOSE people decided on a legislation that will have serious repercussions on OUR womenfolk, THOSE people had more of a say on our females future than our own womenfolk

    THOSE PEOPLE were listened to and their opinions listened to by a deviant FM who REFUSES to even engage with our womenfolk never mind LISTEN to them

    What other proposed legislation being considered by the SG has been opened up to a WORLDWIDE CONSULTATION where people or organisations with vested interests can determine or severely influence the outcome of that consultation
    And where is my quid pro quo to influence other governments of other countries on their legislation

  144. John Main
    Ignored
    says:

    This might be seen as off topic by some, but I don’t think it is.

    To understand why trans ideology has captured HR, we need to understand what is going on in the wider world. What we see in Scotland is just a local manifestation of global trends.

    Two recent articles in Unherd help. “The American Experiment Has Just Begun” explains how US cultural colonialism has captured us, the UK, Europe and beyond. Whilst it may or may not be true that Scotland is a colony of England, there is absolutely no doubt whatsoever that both Scotland and England are cultural US colonies.

    “How Lobbyists Captured The EU” explains the huge reach of Big Pharma (and other powerful interest groups) within the world of politics and explains why ordinary people and voters cannot expect to achieve change or reach popular goals without root and branch political reform.

  145. Effijy
    Ignored
    says:

    BBC promoting their sports personality of the year show.
    It’s maybe not too late but Scotland should unite in voting for Harry Kane.
    He stopped dead this incessant 18th year of its coming home.
    With one kick he achieved more than Messi for me at this World Cup.

    Loved the Ali McCoist comment that it was wonderful to see players score a hat trick in a
    World Cup Final where all the goals actually crossed the line!

  146. John Main
    Ignored
    says:

    Further to my last post, “Why I Stopped Being A Good Girl” on Unherd also comes highly recommended.

    Intriguing to read that the author first encountered the question “What Is A Woman?” in 2014.

    We can see that this movement has been a long time building. It won’t go away overnight.

  147. Dorothy Devine
    Ignored
    says:

    I’m thinking the title should be ‘why do women hate the current SNP?’ and then add a very long list of reasons.

  148. Tinto Chiel
    Ignored
    says:

    @Effigy: O/T I know but I’m afraid English pundits are already talking about the inevitability of England winning the Euros in two years time.

    Re the non-goal in 1966, I’ve seen photographs (strangely rare in the UK) which shows the tan ball they were using that day bouncing up from the goal area with a big whitewash mark in the middle of it.

    And speaking of Mr McCoist, it would have been nice if he had shown faith in his own country instead of lining up with a lot of Old Firm luminaries (and the likes of Willie Miller) to oppose independence in 2014.

    It’s a funny old game, Saint.

  149. Andy Ellis
    Ignored
    says:

    @John Main

    It’s partly creeping Americanisation of some aspects of our cultures (which is surely a global phenomenon?) and partly a product of our own collective failures to adequately protect our societies from “red in tooth and claw” capitalism and neo-liberalism.

    Culturally we see it in things like the hyping of US based “innovations”: Trick or treat at Hallowe’en and the hyping up of that as an event, US style Proms for school children, Black Friday sales etc. The Anglo speaking world is particularly prone to it due to the shared language and cultural similarities, but the tendrils spread further. Hollywood, music, art, academia….all tend to be influenced by try to accommodate themselves to those paying the piper.

    As a society we had and have choices. Nobody forced us to support (or even if we didn’t support at least to accept) the Thatcherite then Blairite model. Many of our current travails can be traced back to not choosing to reinforce a model which diverged from privatisation, self reliance, prioritising trickle down economics and the small state.

    We can grouch about the outcomes all we like, and assign blame for our current malaise as we see for according to our individual outlook, but there was nothing inevitable about the outcomes. Another future was possible: the British and Scottish electorate just failed to grasp the nettle and elect politicians and parties that ensured better outcomes.

    Governments are of course often accused of doing things that lack popular support. Sometimes individual voters will think the government are right to oppose a policy with majority support:as in the case of the death penalty perhaps. In other circumstances many of us will think the government is wrong to oppose a majority view, such as on current proposals to amend GRA.

    We might not like it, but there is a tension there: sometimes it is right for government to resist a majority, but it’s not something they should make a habit of. We live in a representative democracy, not a direct democracy. Modern democratic societies depend on electing representatives to govern on our behalf. In the end, if they’re making a bùrach of it, the buck stops with us.

  150. Ruby
    Ignored
    says:

    This is being looked on something that mainly affects women but in the not too distant future it will have an effect on everyone’s lives.

    Do you think all these ‘new women’ are going to be happy with a certificate?

    They will want breast implants, penis removal, hormones, facial reconstruction, laser hair treatment, all kinds of surgeries and require lots of medical attention due to all the side effects of these surgeries & drugs.

    Trans rights are human rights.

    Is our SNHS in good enough shape to cope with all these trans rights?

    Changing sex is very costly.

    I’m sticking with no sex changes. Repeal the GRA and spend money on researching a better solution to gender dysphoria.

    https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/628382

    The current solution is total madness.
    It’s like something from a sci-fi novel.

  151. Lorna Campbell
    Ignored
    says:

    I have said this all along because it is the definite response I have garnered, too. That is why it was always madness to insist that this was a side issue and that independence should come first. It was always the Trojan Horse in the SNP electorate. It has been obvious since 2015 that the SNP has been infiltrated by the hard left ‘trans’ warriors and men’s rights cabal. They are responsible, along with the utterly odious Greens, of destroying independence. Many Unionists vote SNP because the party has done some good things in Scotland, but, if this passes, many, many women will abandon them, Unonists, independistas, et al. You, Rev, I and others on here, were all Cassandras, knowing the truth but destined never to be believed. Now, they’d better believe it. The Greens, led by a gay man and a Tranadian, have played a blinder and destroyed the SNP to boot.

  152. Lorna Campbell
    Ignored
    says:

    Sorry, meant to add; revenge is a dish best served cold. Remember that at the next opportunity to vote these f*****s out.

  153. Ottomanboi
    Ignored
    says:

    ANDY ELLIS.
    09.00
    The Americanization, the monetization, the twitterization, the intellectual dumbing down of everything, and do «the masses», the citizens care a damn?
    Mess, what mess? We don’t see a mess.
    The buck stops with those who wallow and will ineluctably drown in their mess.
    Truly, they deserve to.
    Scotland, sadly, may well be the first to immolate itself by following the bell wether of the unwholesome trend.
    Is «educated electorate» an oxymoron?
    Is «politician» a synonym for trickster?
    An elected majority may morph into elected dictatorship as in Germany 1933.
    ¡Viva la Muerte!

  154. Republicofscotland
    Ignored
    says:

    I recall reading some of his pro-indy articles pre-2014, another person who won’t see an indy Scotland, and they’ll be many more whilst Sturgeon the Judas holds the FM’s reins.

    https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thenational.scot%2Fnews%2F23201683.journalist-independence-campaigner-derek-bateman-dies-aged-71%2F

  155. Dramfineday
    Ignored
    says:

    Petitions signed Ruby and well put Lorna

  156. Luigi
    Ignored
    says:

    Surely there are enough angry indy women (and men) now willing to lend their votes to Alba? These things have inertia (think an SNP going nowhere for decades) but, as 2015 showed, when the tipping point is reached, the results can be spectacular. The big question is – can Alba hold it together, and keep the pressure on, for as long as it takes? How patient are they? How determined are they? Hopefully, Alba is here for the long term, After all, there is not exactly anywhere else to go now, is there?

  157. Republicofscotland
    Ignored
    says:

    So, Victor Madrigal-Borloz, the United Nations rappoteur who is for the GRR’s was at Holyrood putting his point across. Madrigal-Borloz however said he wouldn’t try to counter his fellow colleague, Reem Alsalem, the United Nations Special Rapporteur on violence against women and girls, who claimed violent men could abuse the system of self-identification, which is included in the Scottish Parliament bill.

    Madrigal-Borloz found the questio below problematic, and not straight forward.

    When asked by Tory MSP Rachael Hamilton about whether he thought stopping convicted sex offenders from applying for a Gender Recognition Certificate was a “reasonable” measure to take, Madrigal-Borloz said that explicitly connecting sexual violence and transgender people without any administrative or judicial findings that it was an issue in other countries with self-ID was “problematic”.

    Mardigal-Borloz, then admits there could be a big problem with the bill.

    “I am convinced that women are, of course, right to fear violence at the hands of predators – predatory men, in particular. They are massively affected by it.”

    Madrigal-Borloz, then misses the entire point of matter, when it comes to trans pre-op men entering women and children’s safe spaces, he sticks entirely to the transwomen debate below on what sounds like a post-op transwomen.

    “But one of the ideas that I find quite problematic in relation to these connections is there is this connection made with the idea that trans women are actually just men in dresses. There is something that is quite off about that, and I think creates significant possibilities for stigma and discrimination.

    “Trans women are not men in dresses. They are certainly not predatory men in dresses. They are not men at all.”

    https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thenational.scot%2Fnews%2F23201725.gender-debate-used-proxy-transgender-discrimination%2F

  158. Alf Baird
    Ignored
    says:

    Lorna Campbell @ 9:50 am

    “the SNP has been infiltrated by the hard left ‘trans’ warriors and men’s rights cabal. They are responsible, along with the utterly odious Greens, of destroying independence.”

    Yes Lorna, this has certainly created a massive divide in the independence movement and it needs jettisoned. However, the main ‘rupture’ in the movement is primarily caused by the dominant national party elites’ being compromised and acting to protect the interests of colonialism, which is imperilled and rather desperate to hang on to Scottish territory and resources. And so we enter the ‘fascism phase’ of the well-trod decolonization process, with colonial laws deployed to keep the people ‘doun-hauden’ (oppressed).

  159. Republicofscotland
    Ignored
    says:

    Looking through the SNP’s 64 current MSPs, you wonder why they haven’t held Sturgeon to account on collapsing Holyrood to hold a snap Holyrood election used as a de facto indy vote.

    Why haven’t they compelled her to do this knowing that Scotland could be out of this prison of a union by next year, we elected them with a main remit to obtain Scottish independence, and they promised to do their best to fulfill that main remit, so why have they not pushed Sturgeon to go down this route.

    Ex-British paratrooper and SNP Deputy leader Keith Brown knocked the Holyrood route on the head as soon as it was touted, just think about that for a second, we have a perfectly viable exit out of this union and the Deputy Leader of the party that we elected specifically to remove Scotland from this abusive onesided union rules that route out almost immediately.

    Our own FM has also kyboshed this quick route out of the union, and the SNP MPs aren’t keen on using the next GE as a way out of the union either, as if the next GE a whopping two years away will lead o any kind of plebiscite.

    So, with no SNP MSP standing up for the Holyrood route at least not publicly, we must assume that they are either onboard with Sturgeon and Brown’s plans to keep us in this abusive union, or they are too cowardly and full of self-interests to actually stand up for their own country, either way these people are of no use to Scotland, I guess we could class them as parasites on the taxpayer, they take, take, take but never deliver what we elected them to do.

    Here is a list of those SNP MSPs of low moral character.

    https://www.parliament.scot/msps/current-and-previous-msps

    And here’s the route out of this union that they continue to ignore.

    https://wingsoverscotland.com/how-you-do-it/

  160. Andy Ellis
    Ignored
    says:

    @Luigi

    If there are all these angry Scottish women and men out there, they are certainly keeping a low profile. We haven’t seen much evidence of an uptick in support for Alba thus far though it might happen in coming months.

    The question for me is why it isn’t happening? Do folk just not know about the issue yet, or is it simply that they don’t care or think it’s something that can either wait to be addressed at a later date, or something they’re prepared to tolerate because they buy the “all eyes on the prize” line?

    Maybe over coming months things will change. It will be interesting to see if Westminster strikes the Holyrood legislation down. That might set the cat amongst the pigeons! It is quite odd that only the Tories and Alba seem to be on the right side on this issue.

    As you say, we have to hope that Alba is around to hoover up the votes of disaffected indy folk who are outraged enough about the issue to switch their votes from SNP or yoon parties who also support TRA extremism. I doubt we will know until the next elections.

  161. stuart mctavish
    Ignored
    says:

    On topic parody of some new nuclear news that should help encapsulate at least one* of the issues at hand:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_xggj76quE

    * another being that any cunning plan to base future economy on the pink pound could be in all sorts of trouble

  162. Scotsrenewables
    Ignored
    says:

    Don’t forget, demo at Holyrood tomorrow

    https://forwomen.scot/19/12/2022/demonstration-say-no-to-self-id/

  163. Breeks
    Ignored
    says:

    twathater says:
    20 December, 2022 at 3:07 am

    The conclusions of the ­individual ­responses are not recorded.

    WHY were the conclusions of the INDIVIDUAL responses not recorded ( which is bullshit) the individual responses WERE recorded but sturgeon REFUSED REPEATEDLY to release them ( I wonder why that would be )maybe it came under the catchall of (not in the publics interest) my arse…

    You answer your own question twathater.

    If Sturgeon wasn’t a fraud up to no good, then why would any of the secrecy, gerrymandering of officials, and misrepresentation of the narrative be necessary?

    She’s conning us, we know she’s conning us, and she knows we know she’s conning us. The only thing keeping her dodgy wee bandwagon trundling along is avoiding scrutiny at all costs.

    How I look forward to the day when her fraudulent world crashes down around her. Not since Thatcher have I longed so hard for a politicians career to be over. Sturgeon disgusts me.

  164. Hatuey
    Ignored
    says:

    There is a funny side to all this. I mean, you have a leader of an independence movement that isn’t man enough to confront Westminster, dedicating herself to policies that essentially aim to destroy the distinction between man and woman.

    I don’t say she isn’t man enough lightly. Men are generally better at and more comfortable with direct confrontation. It’s what we do. It’s the same in most of the animal kingdom, from lobsters to deer.

    I vaguely remember Hegel saying something about society going to fuck when there’s too many men around which, if I remember correctly, is why he thought wars played an important part in keeping things fresh. I’ve heard others account for 18th century men with their wigs and stockings in those sort of terms too.

    “War is progress, peace is stagnation…”

    Maybe that’s the deal; without war to keep the numbers down, men start dressing like women. Maybe some sort of heist takes place in mens’ psyches, like in Dog Day Afternoon; instead of demanding a plane to Wyoming, we demand to go to Transylvania or something.

    Are we in one of those phases now? I’ve heard theories about feminising hormones in milk and the food chain. Fuck knows.

    Next time you meet one of your golf buddies in the lingerie dept., I wouldn’t assume he’s there buying a little something for the wife. It could destroy your game thinking like that, though, couldn’t it… has he even got a wife?

  165. Oneliner
    Ignored
    says:

    I can’t understand why Clarkson hates Sturgid. It’s not as if she conspired to have him jailed.

  166. Mark Boyle
    Ignored
    says:

    Andy Ellis says:
    20 December, 2022 at 11:04 am

    @Luigi

    If there are all these angry Scottish women and men out there, they are certainly keeping a low profile. We haven’t seen much evidence of an uptick in support for Alba thus far though it might happen in coming months.

    The question for me is why it isn’t happening? Do folk just not know about the issue yet, or is it simply that they don’t care or think it’s something that can either wait to be addressed at a later date, or something they’re prepared to tolerate because they buy the “all eyes on the prize” line?

    Because it’s Scotland, and as the RSPB might put it, they don’t care a duck until the chickens come home to roost. We’ve much more important things to worry about like the Old Firm and who’s going to win this year’s “must watch” reality TV show.

    If that sounds ultra-cynical, there’s a certain ScotNat blogger and “cunning planner” who spent years not caring about a quackity quack about Thatcher until the time came for HIS livelihood to be “deindustrialised”. The Scottish dilemma encapsulated: seeing the light when the oncoming train’s just about to turn you into Ragu..

    It’s the biggest long term problem Scottish society has, the jaw-dropping wilful myopia – as I’ve said we need to get rid of the “I’m Alright Jack” mindset before getting rid of the Union Jack. What’s come to pass under Sturgeon is the warning of what to come if we don’t change.

    As for For Women’s demo tomorrow and that silly rambling filk song they’ve dreamed up for it (utter Guardianista levels of cringe there), a very loud mantra of “WOMEN WON’T WHEESHT!” would do the job a million times better – and get the telly time they crave.

    But as we’re living now in an age of self-appointed ‘can’t adult’ public crusaders who spit the dummy at anyone who ever suggests to them they’re doing it wrong, all one can do is sit back and wait for the inevitable latest “glorious failure” to unfold.

  167. robertkknight
    Ignored
    says:

    Oneliner @12:13

    “I can’t understand why Clarkson hates Sturgid. It’s not as if she conspired to have him jailed”

    Perhaps Clarkson should threaten to get into Scottish politics, with the express intention of pointing out that Sturgeon’s strategy… “WHAT STRATEGY?” we cry… for Indy isn’t working. Either way, he’d best avoid dinner invites to Bute House.

  168. Alf Baird
    Ignored
    says:

    John Main @ 7:48 am

    “Two recent articles in Unherd help. “The American Experiment Has Just Begun” explains how US cultural colonialism has captured us, the UK, Europe and beyond. Whilst it may or may not be true that Scotland is a colony of England, there is absolutely no doubt whatsoever that both Scotland and England are cultural US colonies.”

    Good to see we are making at least some progress in knowledge. However, colonised peoples don’t need recent articles to know of their colonial wretchedness and the resulting ‘hideous mess’ if they leave their destiny in the hands of ‘the narrow tyranny of a dehumanized bourgeoisie’ class. Aime Cesaire wrote the following in 1955:

    “And now I ask: what else has Europe done? It has undermined civilizations, destroyed countries, ruined nationalities, extirpated “the root of diversity.” No more dikes, no more bulwarks. The hour of the barbarian is at hand. The modern barbarian. The American hour. Violence, excess, waste, mercantilism, bluff, conformism, stupidity, vulgarity, disorder. Says Truman: “the time of the old colonialism has passed”. Which means that American high finance considers that the time has come to raid every colony in the world. American domination – the only domination from which one never recovers. Unless Europe undertakes on its own initiative a policy of nationalities, a new policy founded on respect for peoples and cultures (and) unless Europe galvanizes the dying cultures and raises up new ones, Europe will have deprived itself of its last chance and, with its own hands, drawn up over itself the pall of mortal darkness.”

    America (and its conspirators) is no liberator, and it is clearly time for peoples and nations to reinstate the dike and the bulwark, which is national cultures. In oor case that means Scottis naitional cultur, an langage.

  169. Tinto Chiel
    Ignored
    says:

    Oneliner:”I can’t understand why Clarkson hates Sturgid. It’s not as if she conspired to have him jailed.”

    Ouch! You lived up to your handle there.

    I unfortunately saw her on TV with her wee angry face on saying that Clarkson (that human barrage balloon of piss and wind) was “distorted by hate”.

    Irony police, arrest that wummin!

  170. David Hannah
    Ignored
    says:

    https://www.scottishparliament.tv/meeting/equalities-human-rights-and-civil-justice-committee-december-19-2022

    The UN Rappoteur on violence against women and girls Reem Alsaleem consulting Holyrood, advising Government to pause bill. Saying you’ve not consulted the women’s groups in Scotland. Factual.

    The women going to the rally tomorrow hope you make a lot of noise, the Government aren’t listening. Watch out for the hairy hand.

  171. David Hannah
    Ignored
    says:

    Stay safe tomorrow ladies at the women’s rights demo. Stay safe.

    Better watch out for the SNPs learning disabilities officer.

    He might try and through you down a well!

    Solidarity with my sisters, adult human females. The only cis I recognise is sister.

    Sturgeon:Destroyer of women’s rights in Scotland.

    Solidarity with JK Rowling and Harry Potter. He didn’t fit in with the muggles, he didn’t fit in with the wizards of hogwarts. He a scar to remind him he was different. But Harry was special. He had special powers. We were all special like Harry Potter.

    We didn’t need to tuck our penis in between our legs and call ourselves, Davinnaaa.

    F*ckin tell that Nicola. Get her in the bin. Along with the legislation.

  172. Viscount Ennui
    Ignored
    says:

    NB
    Is there any obligation on the part of MSPs to declare an interest in the bill?
    For example, if they will be affected in any way by its consequences?
    If they are themselves TRANS?

  173. Stuart MacKay
    Ignored
    says:

    Hatuey @12:07pm

    All this trans stuff (and that Men’s Sexual Rights movement as well) can be blamed on dating apps. With 80% of the women chasing the 20% of the men that look sufficiently like Patrick Dempsey that doesn’t leave a of opportunity for the rest. Since men will more or less suffer any humiliation for a bit of nookie we’re now in the situation where the trans thing has to be conjured up to give some veneer of social respectability for the poor souls who aren’t gay but don’t really have other options.

    You’re right about the war angle. If you get the manly 20% killed off then a level playing field is restored.

  174. David Hannah
    Ignored
    says:

    That’s one theory. I also think that people’s IQ is going down. They don’t read books.

    Traditional influences from the family home are limited. The first thing a child sees in the morning is his phone. They don’t read books. They spend hours on the phone. Who are they watching?

    American social media platforms, as Alf Baird said, colonisation of the culture.

    The Chinese restrict Tik Tok to educational videos time restricted. They want to rule the world while the Westerners are dumbed down.

  175. Skip_NC
    Ignored
    says:

    Viscount Ennui, that is a very good question. My first thought is to ask another question: is such a declaration only required if there is a material benefit that directly benefits the individual or a related party? If so, I daresay a lot of people would say that there is no need to declare. I would argue otherwise. Will the bill, combined with the Court of Session judgement last week, make it easier for men to sit on public boards. So the broader question is whether any MSP has a family member that will gain a material benefit by being able to take up a seat on a board that might otherwise be unavailable to them.

    Have I completely misunderstood what is being debated today or is there a better example than the one I gave?

  176. David Hannah
    Ignored
    says:

    Where once you could escape into the magical World of Hogwarts, children now spend literally hours a day scrolling tik tok as an escape and listening to influencers from America like, Dylan Mulvaney and some weird guy that says he’s non binary. These freak shows are telling them they can be special too by becoming a man or woman.

    It’s insane. I think social media needs to be regulated. Its damaging society. Damaging self esteem. Damaging healthy relationships. Damaging the traditional family home, family values.

  177. Whit Noo
    Ignored
    says:

    Lorna Campbell: I fail to see what men’s rights groups have got to do with the Holyrood madness. It’s not them that’s pushing this psychotic ideology; quite the opposite. You could hardly call manhater Sturgeon a men’s rights activist by any means. Still, I can understand why you think as you do, what with you not being a fan of the male of the species. Putting it mildly.

    Interesting article about Scottish politics in general by Jonathon Shafi:

    https://jonathonshafi.substack.com/p/the-snp-and-the-corporate-lobby?utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email

  178. Viscount Ennui
    Ignored
    says:

    Remind me of the maxumum IQ permitted to be an MSP?
    I had not realised that it had been set so low.

    https://www.scottishparliament.tv/meeting/meeting-of-the-parliament-december-20-2022

  179. Robert Hughes
    Ignored
    says:

    Whit Noo says:
    20 December, 2022 at 2:38 pm

    ” Lorna Campbell: I fail to see what men’s rights groups have got to do with the Holyrood madness. ”

    That must be because you don’t have a clue what you’re talking about , Mr/Ms Noo . If you did , you would know that the loudest , screechiest voices in this whole debacle are men – whether they CALL themselves * women * or not ; it’s men demanding the * right * to be perceived and treated as EXACTLY the same as biological females .

    Unlike you , hiding behind an pseudonym , Lorna has been and continues to be open , upfront and one of the most perceptive and articulate commentators on this sanctioned insanity

  180. Lorna Campbell
    Ignored
    says:

    Whit Noo: I have never claimed not to be a fan of men. I am not a fan of certain men and not a fan of certain women, either. The reason I wrote what I did about men’s rights activists is because many of them are. If one set of people (men) are taking away the other set’s rights (women) what would you call that movement? Please don’t give me the usual nonsense about it not being all men because I know it’s not all men. As I have said on another thread, I have men in my family who are very dear to me. I was my father’s daughter, I am my husband’s wife, I am my grandson’s granny, my nephews’ auntie. I have been fortunate in the men I have known, but many women are not so fortunate. The ‘trans’ movement will, without a shadow of a doubt, attempt to remove ALL female rights. Men’s rights groups are part of that problem because they already think we have too many rights and want some of them removed. Have you heard the language that some of these activists (not ‘trans’ themselves) use. Only a misogynist would use it. If you mean, that the activists are not recognised members of certain men’s rights groups, I’ll go along with that, but many of them are very much in favour of removing women’s rights in favour of men.

  181. Lorna Campbell
    Ignored
    says:

    Whatever happens, unless there is a huge shift overnight in Scottish politics, we are not going to get independence any time soon. I would be pushing for removal of all female and supporters’ votes from the SNP/Greens, from Labour and Lib Dems in favour of ALBA. I know it will be several years before we can hope to see a Scottish election, but there is a GE due in a couple of years. A salutary shot across the bows of the SNP in the GE by electing Kenny MacAskill and Neale Hanvey, and, hopefully, a few more ALBA candidates would help to break the logjam.

    Meantime, I would also be hoping that one, at least, of the big names in the SNP (Joanna Cherry, for example) would move over to ALBA. However, even ALBA must now look to constitutional routes, including a plebiscitary election and UDI and/or SALVO’s international route, that do not include a pointless referendum that we would be unlikely to win. Preferably, of course, I would have rather that Nicola Sturgeon call an extraordinary plebiscitary election on a united platform, in the wake of the SC of the UK recent ruling, but, no, it’s to be more dangly, putrid carrots next Spring. You can fool all of the people some of the time, and some of the people all of the time, but you cannot fool all of the people all of the time – except, maybe SNP supporters. The Greens will get what they want and the SNP will suffer, effectively. Nice one! Not!

  182. John Main
    Ignored
    says:

    @ Alf Baird says:20 December, 2022 at 12:51 pm

    Thanks for your response. Some interesting quotes in your post, many of which I agree with.

    Unless Europe undertakes on its own initiative a policy of nationalities, a new policy founded on respect for peoples and cultures (and) unless Europe galvanizes the dying cultures and raises up new ones, Europe will have deprived itself of its last chance and, with its own hands, drawn up over itself the pall of mortal darkness

    Instructive to compare the above with the enshrined EU policy of ever closer union, don’t you think?

    Anyhoo, enough already. The Xmas vacation is nearly here. Like hundreds of thousands of Scots, I hope to take in some must-see movies, with a burger or KFC with fries and a shake.

    colonised peoples don’t need recent articles to know of their colonial wretchedness

    Hmmm. Plenty of Scots would hear my para beginning with “Anyhoo” spoken, and think nothing of it. Proving perhaps that their “colonial wretchedness” remains invisible to them.

  183. Lorna Campbell
    Ignored
    says:

    Linda: changes to the GRA 2004 in Scotland cannot be Scots only because the pre existing legislation is UK legislation which applies equally in Scotland. Not trying to be smartie pants, honest injun. Had Sturgeon decided to repeal the GRA in Scotland she would have come into direct confrontation with Westminster, so she believes she’s being smart, but the changes still rest on the 2004 GRA. What will happen is that thousands – and, yes, I mean thousands, of English and Welsh ‘trans’ people will come north for a GRC and head home with it (with all the cost of administration being borne up here) testing Westminster’s resolve to not recognise them. Sunak might well give in and recognise them, making self-ID the law in England, too, unless his government has the stomach to fight for women. Have they? The women’s vote in Tory circles is extremely powerful, so he will be caught between a rock and a hard place. The women’s vote is also very powerful in the SNP, Greens, Lib Dems and Labour. They just haven’t sussed the implications of that yet – just as they have not yet sussed the implications of self-ID in law. The 2010 Equality Act, as it stands, will be no match for the reforms if they play out because all protected categories, except gender reassignment, will be open to being breached by ‘trans’ women, as will all prohibitive laws designed to protect us all. It is only a matter of time. Anyone who has lived through the years between Thatcher and now, where neoliberal economics have held sway, will know what is coming when they realise that it is neoliberal multi billionaire corporate American men who are bankrolling this whole thing. Follow the money. Stonewall and the ‘trans’ lobby are the advance guard for the new wave of corporate, global neoliberal economics.

  184. KT Lorimer
    Ignored
    says:

    Spot on Lorna – an unholy alliance of big business and sexual deviancy.

  185. Shug
    Ignored
    says:

    Just watched Joanna cherry nailing sunak on removing human rights act protection from Scotland. What a class act
    She washed out their clear intent to ignore the Scottish parliament view.
    Just need wishy washy to know his place, oh and the Nicola crowd .
    You can hear them now “we will not allow Scotland to be removed from the human rights act against our wishes”
    They know their place

    Why oh why will they not dump this crowd of losers

  186. Karen
    Ignored
    says:

    John Main, you forgot “species”

  187. twathater
    Ignored
    says:

    @ Robert Hughes 4.32pm Robert thank you for that comment it saved me writing it , it is unbelievable that some “MEN” are still not seeing what’s in front of them , is it maybe that they want a wee bit dressing up in their wives or girlfriends clothes or dae they prefer their mammy’s claes, is it maybe exciting or voyeuristic to go intae womens safe spaces to look at the wimmen and bairns wi nae claes on , nae wonder this fuckin perversion is still getting voted on
    Have people not seen the Aberdeenshire wanker supposedly wi turrets posing wi his camera and pals in the ladies lavvy

    When women and children start being sexually abused and assaulted in the wake of this lunacy I will personally contribute to ANY crowd funder AGAINST sturgeon and her dumb pal robison

  188. John Main
    Ignored
    says:

    @Shug 5:32

    A quick search online reveals different figures, ranging from 600K to 1.2 Mill illegal immigrants in the UK. Being illegals, it is not surprising that no exact figures are available.

    If getting this under control requires the UK to leave the ECHR, I will be supporting that policy 100%.

  189. Ottomanboi
    Ignored
    says:

    DAVID HANNAH. 2:30pm
    Trans promoting and porn publishing site TikTok is owned by Bytedance, a Chinese capitalist outfit registered in Brit colonial left over Cayman islands.
    The site has limited access in the PRC.
    Bytedance has a mission, check out the site https://www.bytedance.com/, evangelical capitalism, totally sick.
    Chairman Mao must be spinning in his tomb.

  190. Shug
    Ignored
    says:

    John main
    As long as the removal of the act only removes the protection for immigrants, oh and that are brown or coloured.

    If the rest of us are fine.

    Long time no speak sensible how you doing

  191. David Hannah
    Ignored
    says:

    Sleep well tonight ladies.

    Tomorrow Aunt Nicola will be asking you to report for handmaid duties in the new Scottish Republic of Guilead.

    Hopefully someone arrives at the 11th hour to save women’s rights.

  192. SusanAHF
    Ignored
    says:

    Good, well explained posts @ Lorna Campbell

  193. Ruby
    Ignored
    says:

    The treatment of men has been pretty shocking over the past ten years here in Scotland. The actions of these trans activists could be a backlash for the way they have been treated by women.

    Juryless trial for rape.
    Anonymity for accusers none for the accused.
    Hand on knee & tweaking hair becomes sexual assault
    Treatment of Alex Salmond
    Mark MacDonald fired for sending a text.
    All the MeToo stuff.

    The message has been ‘all men are bastards’ and women are poor helpless victims.

    I can understand why men might be a bit resentful and not want to support women.

  194. Wilson McBride
    Ignored
    says:

    Met a guy today who is a supporter of Scottish Independence.

    I told him of the eight wasted years under Sturgeon.

    He didn’t have a clue what I was talking about.

    I mentioned the vote in the Scottish parliament tomorrow regarding the Trans Cult.

    Telling him how the law will change, allowing men to self ID whenever the mood takes them.

    The guy looked completely lost, he had no idea this was happening, even less of an idea that it was happening tomorrow.

    This is the problem we have,, because I would say this guy is typical of about 95% of the Scottish population.

    And this is why there is not this huge public backlash at this going through the Scottish parliament tomorrow.

    Apathetic snowflakes just about sums up the Scottish electorate right now.

  195. George Ferguson
    Ignored
    says:

    Watched the proceedings until 6pm. The quote of the day for me, was “The Scottish Government have expended a lot of political capital”. IMO that will impact on a future Independence vote. GRRB is going to go through. But take heart, when the No2NP campaign group lost their Court of Session case, a later referral to the Supreme Court struck down the leglisation. I expect the same to happen with GRRB or a Badenoch intervention.
    Listening to the debate I was struck by the shambolic nature of the leglisation. Mair holes than I have in my socks.

  196. John Main
    Ignored
    says:

    @ Shug says:20 December, 2022 at 5:57 pm

    If you can’t fathom the difference between legal and illegal immigration then I can’t help you.

    Here’s a wee definition:

    The Claim of Right 1689.

    Put plainly, the Scottish People are in charge. Monarchs and parliaments are accountable to us – and sackable by us if they do not act for our common wellbeing

    Zat all shite then, Shug?

    If you think so, then fair enough.

    If you don’t think so, just why do sovereign Scots need the ECHR?

    You are aware, I hope, that any legal immigrant to Scotland, given leave to legally stay in Scotland indefinitely, is a sovereign Scot, and thus protected by the CoR.

  197. McDuff
    Ignored
    says:

    Breeks 3.09
    Absolutely agree. But what i can`t understand is why almost all the MSP/MPs are not speaking out about the Sturgeon`s deliberate destruction of Scottish independence. Are they really only interested in the trough and if so what kind of morals do they possess that they would betray the aspirations of their own people for English coin.

  198. Tommo
    Ignored
    says:

    Is it just possible that Wee Jeannie will now be able with this GRA business both to achieve a result of some personal satisfaction to her and-equally- achieve that greatest of privileges in the modern world- victimhood- when the electorate react in horror?; she can then walk into any number of positions ( CEO of Stonewall/any lucrative post in the Human Rights industry- you name it) and say she sacrificed her position and career for this micro-interest group. Just a thought.

  199. Geri
    Ignored
    says:

    The power of propaganda.

    We’ve all heard it the usual bullshit

    *The majority support this.

    *The changes to the Gender Recognition Act do not change in any way the rights of women held under the Equality Act*

    *It does not change single sex spaces or rights for women*

    *Think of the trans people! They’re fucking dyyyyying evvveryday because of right-wing bigoted transphobes like you!*

    *Tantrum. Tantrum. Tantrum*

    As an aside -I follow ‘The Disturbing Truth’ true crime channel on YouTube. Peter Scully FFS! The dark web, network & the horrors those bastards did to children. This law will open the floodgates. It’s not just women every single one of those MSPs have harmed- it’s children’s innocence & safeguarding from predators they’ve thrown the floodgates open to.

    Look for a stampede to Scotland. The new Gretna.



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