We’re Number One!
Posted on
December 03, 2020 by
Rev. Stuart Campbell
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03 12 20 17:56
We’re Number One! | speymouth
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Wings Over Scotland is a (mainly) Scottish political media digest and monitor, which also offers its own commentary. (More)
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Wings Over ScotlandA tall tale
Wee Books
Video
Probably a robbery
Transphobia
A soar-away, world beating, headcase!
So Scotland to be the guinea pigs again?
A first for the UK…except the inventor of this vaccine is Turkish, working in a German company, which is in partnership with an American company that has chosen to manufacture the vaccine in Belgium.
LOL. LOL. LOL.
Have they still not got a Brexit deal yet ? …. oh look a vaccine Squirrel…
Those numbers are almost certainly a load of drivel as well, i.e. lower than they claim :/
Sorry, Horlicksed that…I mean higher than they claim! 🙁
The David Brent of Whitehall
Before any anti vaxers come on RNA is an incredibly fragile molecule in this modern world and in our bodies. RNAase an enzyme which chews up RNA literally drips from our fingertips, a form of defence against RNA viruses which is not that effective but still there.
Bare RNA in the space between cells will also not last long being broken down assumed to be a virus. Only the RNA which gets into your cells will last a bit longer. It shouild last long enough to be used to make viral proteins which the cell will then display on its cell surface to alert the immune system which is what cells infected by viruses do so something entirely natural.
RNA put through that also tends to break fairly easily so it won’t last long being broken down into individual nucleotides and used to make our own RNA, so useful nutrients. Not being viruses we have no mechanisms to turn RNA into DNA so after a brief immune alerting flurry that will be that.
Oh, the irony.
I’m sure it passed clear over their heads by about six feet.
Shhhhh….
Quiet everyone…
Do you hear them?
In the distance…
That’s the rest of the world…
LAUGHING!
They’ll go down in history as a world beating upperclass clowns of a Government
And they can shove their two bob English vaccine right up their shiter.
You ever listen to the News reports on the english media?
They never mention that the pfizer vaccine is not actually English.
It leaves the slow thinkers amongst us thinking this is infact an English product.
Devious to the last.
And as for the Oxford vaccine, that will get shipped out to India, along with the English Navy’s spare Aircraft Carrier.
@robertknight 5.27pm
Very good & very true I would think 🙂
The positive case for the Union has been found. LOL! 🙂
THIS just exposes and exemplifies how REPREHENSIBLE our media really are , instead of proper investigative journalism by exposing and ridiculing these TWATS they compound their stupidity by clinging on to these arseholes every word
I thought the DUTY of the press was to inform and protect the citizens by exposing corruption , obfuscation , wrongness and BAD governance , it appears that there are too many presstitutes in the media nowadays (you and a few others excepted of course Stuart )
Cue Vera Lynn all together now
Johnny Martin wrote on 3 December, 2020 at 5:23 pm: “Those numbers are almost certainly a load of drivel as well, i.e. lower than they claim”
100% Agree!
http://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=10223501195427775&set=pcb.10223501397872836
Might need a crowdfund to afford this fur ma christmas LoL
Surprised Boris hasn’t dragged out his Turkish roots to take credit.
Around 7 ish this morning my I heard my first reference to England’s mass produced jingoistic shite ” They think it’s all over ” yes every single year once or more every month we are treated to , wait for it 1966 and their national anthem ” they think it’s all over ” it’s like bloody brainwashing.
Scotty FFS beam this tortured soul up I give up I have had enough , I surrender.
And now I am hearing in the news tonight Northern Ireland is staying in the EU while Scotland is being dragged out regardless of the vote.
Where are all the Scottish Orangemen now with their precious union.
They can clearly leave one part of the UK in the EU when they need to but the jocks need to get back in their box and do what they are told!!
meanwhile…….grave diggers are sitting on their arses wondering where all these dead people are.
FFS.
Thought Russia had all ready starting vacinations in August.
More likely we got the vaccine because the UK government does corruption better and faster than other countries.
When big pharma produce and sell a vaccine they have clauses written into the supply contracts that governments have to sign that guarantee that the pharma company has indemnity from any legal action should their vaccine produce so-called ‘side effects’. If something goes wrong then the only recourse to gain compensation is to make a claim from the government, effectively the DWP. So, this is privatise profits, socialise losses scam on the part of big pharma and governments. In any case, the fact that a drug company claims that their vaccine is safe but won’t guarantee that should have anyone thinking there is something that stinks going on there. So much for having full confidence in the vaccine. To check the veracity of what I’m saying here read this: https://www.rt.com/news/496801-pharma-not-accountable-vaccine-effect/
How does the government manage this scam as agents of big pharma. Well there is the “Vaccine Damage Payment Act 1979”. (Just Wikipedia that and you’ll get the bear details.) Basically it is a ‘compensation’ scheme whereby if you get a vaccination and it goes tits up for you or your nearest and dearest you can make a claim against the government for ‘compensation’ (cause you sure as hell can’t make a claim against, say, Pfizer — they have indemnity). The maximum ‘award’ that can be gained is £120,000. See your wonderful government had to do something when it signs contracts that give pharma companies indemnity — this is the UK government response; doubtless highly influenced by lobbyists for big pharma who are very, very active in government circles. I have read that Pfizer’s coronavirus vaccine will be added to the list of vaccines covered by the scheme as of yesterday – this is what “approved for use in the UK” really means and everyone should be aware of that: approved for indemnity. In any case, you should be noting that this situation with not guaranteeing the ‘safety’ of vaccines has been happening for quite some time now, so much so that it is now routine modus operandi for governments and big pharma.
However, just because the compensation scheme scam exists doesn’t mean you’ll find it easy to get a payment — you will have to fight all the way. Just look at what the government tried to do to kids (yes, kids!) that got narcolepsy after being given the ‘safe’ vaccine against the swine flu pandemic of 2009-10. In the first instance the government tried to deny that the vaccine had any ill effects at all. For confirmation of this google the following search phrase (including the quote marks) and read this: https://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/sep/19/swine-flu-vaccine-narcolepsy-uk
So that was in 2013. Swinging forward from there the DWP then started to claim that people making claims for the 120,000 bucks maximum ‘award’ were being excessive in their claims. To confirm this read this: https://www.theguardian.com/science/2017/feb/09/ministers-lose-fight-to-stop-payouts-in-swine-flu-jab-narcolepsy-cases
So there you have it. A potted background of what happens when a ‘safe’ vaccine goes tits up for you or nearest and dearest. The vaccine producers won’t guarantee the ‘safety’ of their vaccines. But if you take the vaccine and get hammered by it you can at least apply to the DWP for compensation and they will fight you every step of the way.
Funny how Nicola Sturgeon doesn’t mention any of this on her daily round-ups on all things coronavirus. We’re being taken for mugs folks, and it’s all about *money*, big bucks to be made, billions! and our governments and big pharma and vested interests are all in favour of that so to hell with ‘safety’ and welcome to the rapid release that the powers that be laud so loudly.
I always knew
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84no_HITKFo
maybe people should FOI their cooncils for how many deaths are reported more than once……
sorry…….registered
I won’t be rushing to have the vaccine from anyone until much more data is available. See this article in the BMJ (not exactly a conspiracy theory site).
https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2020/11/26/peter-doshi-pfizer-and-modernas-95-effective-vaccines-lets-be-cautious-and-first-see-the-full-data/
Then follow the thread and see response from a poster who made a FOI request for the data submitted by Pfizer to the MRHA. Wasn’t provided as it was deemed “not to be in the public interest.”
How flipping arrogant are these flipping tory illegitimates?
Boris wouldn’t be guinea-pigging the UK now would he?
So the English education secretary is a British supremacist? Well I never. Well actually, that fits in with English Torydum’s hostility to all things post-colonial. So he’s unlikely to support “Multicultural Education and the Postcolonial Turn.”. No surprise there though, as English/British exceptionalism is the one of the bio-psycho-social building-blocks of Tory DNA.
https://eprints.qut.edu.au/1796/1/1796.pdf
Allyn Smith trying to rehabilitate himself – has put out a bit of video saying 89% of his constituents want fireworks banned so he bravely raised it in the Commons today.
What a hero.
@Ahundrethidiot
Next you will be insisting that the earth is only a few thousand years old or maybe that the koran predicts the speed of light or Trump was cheated out of a 2nd term or their is no climate crisis or that anti-vaxxers are correct.
Honestly you conspiracy theorists/ religious nut cases are all the same.
I’m under the impression the UK got the vaccine first because it didn’t mind accepting the Pfizer vaccine without peer reviews. Of course Johnson has handled this pandemic appallingly and fast tracking the vaccine, is an attempt to endear him a wee bit with the public.
On a brighter note.
A new YES Campaign Group is in the offing with real independence minded activists, this is great news for the indy movement.
https://www.thenational.scot/news/18919272.yes-alba-top-indy-activists-snp-mp-elected-lead-new-organisation/
Why would anyone accept a vaccine that the company themselves only release when they’ve been given special protection from the government against any legal consequences? Obvious red flag for anyone of sound mind. If a company refuses to accept legal liability for their products it should not be allowed to release those products to the public, you know, like every other company and service and how ordinary public are forced to face legal consequences for their actions when they hurt people.
Sad to see people like “muscleguy” licking the boots of notoriously uncaring big global corporations. Wonder how many pieces of silver he will get for a job well done? Is he going to accept liability for everyone in the country getting this seeing as the company that makes it won’t seeing as he’s an expert and has apparently tested this for years in human trials to make sure it is safe with no long term consequences? …or did you just parrot what a press release told you coz that makes a midwit like you feel clever? TV SAID IT – SO IT MUST BE TRUE! You’d think the midwits would have wised up after seeing the shambles of the last referendum but apparently not. As soon as you move the subject on TV/newspapers/etc. off their niche it magically all must be true and trustworthy.
The numbers for this are completely bonkers anyway as we’ve seen people who die on a motorbike put down as covid deaths, we’ve seen flus as bad and worse than this before and no need for all this hysteria (so why act like lunatics now?) the tests are proven to be unreliable and Sweden still has not turned into a mass grave, despite the chicken little screechers here saying it would.
Meanwhile the misery in Scotland will continue under Dear Leader’s tyranny into next year as what little remeains of the economy is ground into dust and the future is sold off into debt slavery. The Swedish option was obviously the rational one. Even China’s having pool parties and enjoying life while we’re rotting in our prison nation.
Well it’s decision time now isn’t it?
Those bandying about phrases like ‘anti-vaxxers’? your time has come. This is what you wanted. So roll up your sleeves and take it.
But please get off the backs of those of us who have no intention of taking it. Vaccines are not developed and successfully tested in ‘months’. That just doesn’t happen. On Radio Scotland, during Beattie’s Drivetime show, it was clearly stated (only once right enough that I heard) that pregnant women or those considering starting a family (which, presumably, includes men) should not have the vaccine. (Anyone else hear that or did I imagine it?) We also know that Pfizer has immunity from prosecution over any consequences. That’s not ‘conspiracy’ talk but forgive me if I don’t provide links – you’ve had over 9 months to do your own homework.
It’s ‘take it or leave it time’ and many of us choose to leave it, thanks all the same.
Is that alright with you? or would you like us to wear some kind of identification so that we can be avoided?
In any event, good luck.
See Alyn Smith’s swanned off in huffy triumph to a new victory
https://news.sky.com/story/adolf-hitler-elected-in-namibias-local-council-elections-but-has-no-plans-for-world-domination-12150080
To be fair Alyn Smith raises a good point in asking if the U.K. government can consider limiting the private purchase of fireworks.
Jacob Grease Mop was at his most arrogant with a one word answer. “NO”.
Laughable his comment if it weren’t so sad and irresponsible. Behind 4 others the 5th worst in the world for Covid deaths.
More like rest of the world takes pity on poor UK citizens ?
O/T
SCOTIA FUTURE:-
A new Party set up by Chic Brodie and Andy Doig to fight for Scottish Independence.
An alternative to the SNP.
https://www.scotia-future.scot/
I hear its being delivered by Spitfires.
O/T
SCOTIA FUTURE-Andy Doig
For Real Independence and a Scotland of Equals
News Release
EMBARGOED – Thursday 26th November 2020, 12 Noon
Sunday 22nd November 2020
SCOTIA FUTURE REVEALS RADICAL BLUEPRINT FOR GLASGOW HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES FOR ST ANDREWS DAY
Mr Chic Brodie, the Leader of Scotia Future, which stands for real independence and a Scotland of Equals, has revealed a raft of radical constitutional policies that the new party supports for St Andrews Day, as a vision of what a decentralised and federal Scotland could be like after independence, including a Glasgow-based House of Representatives. Mr Brodie said:
“St Andrew’s Day is a very appropriate time not just to look back on Scotland’s past, but to contemplate Scotland’s future. Scotia Future are revealing their St Andrew’s Day vision for an independent Scotland. One key policy will be to create a bi-cameral parliament with the Senate in Holyrood, and a new House of Representatives based in Glasgow.”
“We will also have a written Scottish Constitution, with a Bill of Rights and
Responsibilities, a referendum on whether we have an elected or
hereditary Head of State, and decentralised government departments
mainly to rural Scotland. And most important of all, we will sign up to a
Statement of Independence which means a pro- independence majority of
MSP’s next year means Holyrood will call a referendum, no if’s or but’s.”
Cllr Andy Doig, Nominating Officer for Scotia Future, added: “I think there is a centralising culture now at Holyrood which has been really bad for our communities. We desperately need a new revising chamber, but also power back to local areas. Our vision of keeping the 32 local authorities but complementing them with 15 Federal Councils will turbo-charge local government.”
“The 32 local authorities will feed directly into the 15 Federal Councils, who will promote a shared services agenda to save the 32 Councils money, and be responsible for tourism, social work, fire and police, economic development, and elections to the Scottish Senate. This is similar to the German model which is the most effective Federal system in Europe.”
Contact Mr Chic Brodie – 07553 942484 or Cllr Andy Doig – 07951 073030. To join Scotia Future – e mail info@scotia-future.scot, facebook on/Scotia Future, or twitter on @Scotia Future, website on http://www.scotia-future.scot
O/T
SCOTIA FUTURE on the
“Culloden Development”
For Real Independence and a Scotland of Equals
News Release
For Immediate Use Monday 9th November 2020
SCOTIA FUTURE DEMANDS SCOTTISH GOVT ISSUES MORATORIUM ON DEVELOPMENT OF CULLODEN SITE AS A WAR GRAVE SITE
Cllr Andy Doig, the co-founder of Scotia Future, which stands for real independence and a Scotland of Equals, has demanded that the Scottish Government issues a moratorium on development at the site of the Culloden battlesite, on ethical and historical grounds. Cllr Doig, who has written to the Scottish Minister for Planning about the moratorium, said:
“In the last decade there have been a number of applications to build on Culloden, this is ethically distasteful as effectively the whole area, not just near the Culloden Visitor Centre, is a mass war grave site. Culloden was about the genocide of the culture of Highland Gaelic Scotland and to seek to build on these graves is an appalling act of ethical vandalism.”
“Historically, the end of the Jacobite movement was a turning point in the history of the whole of the British Isles. There is a massive Scottish diaspora who would not be in the USA, Australia, and Canada were it not for the chain of events which Culloden began. To seek to erase that for commercial gain would not happen in any other country worldwide.”
“Scotia Future are demanding that the Scottish Government prohibit the exhumation of human remains at Culloden, under the Burial and Cremation Act (Scotland) 2016, as to exhume would be violation of Sepulchre, an old Scots Law the breach of which is still a crime today recognised in law. Crucially, these remains are not required to be entombed formally or officially.”
“The key issue is that the site of the whole battle is not co-terminous with the site of the visitor centre. Military Historian, Dr Christopher Duffy, is on public record as saying that Culloden is still revealing new information about the battle and believes that “The ground (of Culloden) is still giving up more and more evidence of kinds that we never suspected”. We must listen to Dr Duffy and other military experts.”
Contact Cllr Andy Doig – 07951 073030. To join Scotia Future – e mail info@scotia-future scot call Scotia Future on 07553 942484, facebook on/Scotia Future, or twitter on @Scotia Future, website on http://www.scotia future.scot
*Dr Christopher Duffy, Scottish Daily Mail, 24th October 2020
Btw, WOKE practice evolved from the post-colonial turn in education. Which English Torydum’s default setting is to deny. So here’s a look at “Cultural complextiy, postcolonialism and educational change: Challenges for comparative educators.”, as your man Gove has already been fiddling with England’s education system, in a manner that supports colonial and exclusionary representations of British-ness.
https://eprints.qut.edu.au/7752/1/7752.pdf
@mridul_wadhwa on The Twitter is taking an absolute pasting on his timeline over that tweet he claimed was ‘hate’.
Here’s hoping he’s drawn enough attention to himself that the cops will be forced to – at least – show interest in what he’s still doing in that job.
Oh here we go.The anti-vaxxers have arrived again just on q.
Tell you what ,why don’t we just stop all vaccinations eh? Excellent idea einstein’s. Let us stop the measles rubella, TB, smallpox All the really good ones and let them rip through the world again eh. Certain diseases are making a comeback because of nonsense like this.
Why don’t you go and explain to your concerns at your local hospital and tell the nurses,doctors that am no taking your vaccines mate but I want you to sort out these piles of mine right now.
Aye says the doc,aye pal I’ll sort them out awerite as he proceeds to put a 10 inch needle right up yir arse.
Pain in fecking arse the lot oh yi’s.
Unlike antivaxxers – or how about science-deniers if its such a sensitive term – I have no qualms about taking any of the three vaccines announced so far when my turn comes in the queue. I couldn’t care if you don’t want it but you had better hope there is enough people who do take it because it’s the only way you’ll be able to gain the benefit of any herd immunity.
You’re welcome.
And if you’re someone who, understandably, feels it’s a bit rushed then have a read of this:
https://theconversation.com/less-than-a-year-to-develop-a-covid-vaccine-heres-why-you-shouldnt-be-alarmed-150414
I have no problem with those who don’t want to take the vaccine. I’d take it tonight myself, if I could, but you can’t force others to do so. People need to stop trying to dominate each other.
I’m not wishing any shit on anyone either but I suspect and hope more and more people will be convinced of its efficacy as time goes by and it’s shown to work safely.
On the Inquiry, I’m expecting some major developments soon. It looks like Dangerfield has rumbled them big time. I get the impression something major is developing back-stage.
This isn’t a revolutionary perspective I’m punting. OK, it is, but post-colonial theory and stuff is the sort of cultural theory that informs contemporary educational theory in liberal democracies.
https://www.academia.edu/1797813/2012_Stockhammer_P_W_ed_Conceptualizing_Cultural_Hybridization_A_Transdisciplinary_Approach_Papers_of_the_Conference_Heidelberg_21st_22nd_September_2009_Transcultural_Research_Heidelberg_Studies_on_Asia_and_Europe_in_a_Global_Context_Springer_Berlin_and_Heidelberg_
@Hatuey
Refusing to take the vaccine should be as socially acceptable as drink driving or not wearing a seatbelt. The flat earthers who refuse to do so are putting other (often more vulnerable) people at risk, but most are probably so lacking in empathy and/or common sense that they don’t care.
One way to cure their idiocy of course would be to tell them that if they become ill, they’ll be charged for the cost of their medical care.
@Andy Ellis (9.14) –
I suppose you and I could be held up as an example of how folk who are opposed on one thing can be unified on another.
But, tbh, that comment is a bit hard to take and, if I may say, uncharacteristic.
This isn’t a happy situation for anyone, and hasn’t been for a long time.
No ‘winners’ when it comes to this nightmarish subject, especially when it causes such stark divisions between folk who are, otherwise, fellow travellers.
Ach well. So it goes…
🙁
Hatuey – What is Dangerfield’s first name? (So I can find his blog). Ta
@TJenny
I think it’s Gordon
https://gordondangerfield.com/
Thanks folks. I couldn’t get Rodney oot ma heid. 🙂
Bookmarked it now.
Muscleguy says:
3 December, 2020 at 5:25 pm
Thanks for that. My only worry is that people who take the vaccine will become complacent and, through carelessness ie not washing hands so much etc, pass it via surfaces onto a vulnerable person who hasn’t been able to have the vaccine. I’ve taken every other vaccine going so I don’t have a problem with this one.
Andy Ellis
Away give yerself a shake yah muppet
If you trust anything this Tory lot say you are dumber than you look
Just 3 Drug pushers that’s (moral upstanding completely trusted companies to you ) 3 companies have managed to incur almost 9 Billion that’s 9 thousand million Dollars in fines levied against them what for FALSELY REPORTING the results of drug trials and yet you’re expecting people to suspend all sense and critical thought then to top it all trust this Tory government.
Ok take my place I will happily drive you to the test centre because that’s what it will be , a ongoing trial , and a mass test , you can’t compress time and time is what’s missing in these trials .
@Andy Ellis –
Just to be clear – I don’t blame you or anyone else for being keen to take the vaccine. No reason why anyone should be ‘blamed’ for wanting to take care of themselves, families, neighbours. Those motives are irreproachable.
But we are all responsible for our own ‘knowledge’ as much as our health. Many of us look at the way this situation has developed since the early Spring and the narrative which has been battered into all of us, relentlessly, 24/7.
I don’t speak for anyone else. I don’t ‘think’ for anyone else. And I certainly don’t ‘tell’ anyone what to do in relation to anything, ever.
But I’m still responsible for my own decisions and I choose to trust my own judgement. I look at the main players in this unfolding horror story – the mainstream media, the government (local, national, international), Big Pharma, the Google/Twitter ‘Web’ – and there isn’t one of them I would trust to tell me the truth about anything.
So why should I trust them on this?
I’m not trying to have a rammy here. I respect your stance but I wish you could reciprocate. Because one thing’s for sure – an awful lot of folk will refuse to be vaccinated, for all sorts of reasons. Dismissing them as idiots and criminals isn’t productive.
It’s like the new passport they have brought out.
It a proud British Document of superiority.
With Finish Paper, Spanish ink, Italian Chip, etc
Nothing but the same in the passport is made in UK
George Wood
whatever helps you sleep at night.
@Ian B 10pm
I respect stances that have some grounding in reality, not truthy expressions of being responsible for my own knowledge. You are as entitled to your own opinions and your own “take” as anyone, but nobody is entitled to their own class of facts.
Refusing vaccination may not be actually criminal, but it has to be based on more than vague distrust of “the man”.
The only way we will develop any sort of herd immunity is through mass vaccination. Public trust in government and science has been taking a battering over the last few decades though, and won’t be overcome by browbeating folk. So here’s a look at “Increasing Vaccination: Putting Psychological Science Into Action”.
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/1529100618760521
“Vaccination is one of the great achievements of the 20th century, yet persistent public-health problems include inadequate, delayed, and unstable vaccination uptake. Psychology offers three general propositions for understanding and intervening to increase uptake where vaccines are available and affordable.
The first proposition is that thoughts and feelings can motivate getting vaccinated. Hundreds of studies have shown that risk beliefs and anticipated regret about infectious disease correlate reliably with getting vaccinated; low confidence in vaccine effectiveness and concern about safety correlate reliably with not getting vaccinated. We were surprised to find that few randomized trials have successfully changed what people think and feel about vaccines, and those few that succeeded were minimally effective in increasing uptake.
The second proposition is that social processes can motivate getting vaccinated. Substantial research has shown that social norms are associated with vaccination, but few interventions examined whether normative messages increase vaccination uptake. Many experimental studies have relied on hypothetical scenarios to demonstrate that altruism and free riding (i.e., taking advantage of the protection provided by others) can affect intended behavior, but few randomized trials have tested strategies to change social processes to increase vaccination uptake.
The third proposition is that interventions can facilitate vaccination directly by leveraging, but not trying to change, what people think and feel. These interventions are by far the most plentiful and effective in the literature. To increase vaccine uptake, these interventions build on existing favorable intentions by facilitating action (through reminders, prompts, and primes) and reducing barriers (through logistics and healthy defaults); these interventions also shape behavior (through incentives, sanctions, and requirements). Although identification of principles for changing thoughts and feelings to motivate vaccination is a work in progress, psychological principles can now inform the design of systems and policies to directly facilitate action.”
It’s a vaccine. It’s not made up of a thousand different chemicals. It has roughly 5 components used in any vaccine.
Only difference is the antigen.
And here’s some bio-ethics.
https://bioethics.georgetown.edu/2015/02/vaccines-and-the-ethics-of-parental-choice/e
Re Harassment and Complaints Committee ,
The Committee will next meet on Tuesday 8 December at 10.15am when it will take evidence from Peter Murrell, Chief Executive of the Scottish National Party ,
Public papers for Tuesday’s meeting ,
https://www.parliament.scot/HarassmentComplaintsCommittee/Meeting%20Papers/201208SGHHCPublicPapers.pdf
So right folks clear the diaries for Tuesday and get the popcorn in .
@Andy Ellis (10.13) –
Please believe that my distrust is well-founded.
I hope we can just leave it there with an agreement to differ and that other mutual interests will not be damaged?
Here we go again. Lets experiment on the Jocks Taffs and Micks. I guess English Nazi Boy Gavin will approve of that.
Ian Brotherhood,
read this.
https://us.cnn.com/2020/12/02/health/coronavirus-vaccine-volunteer-side-effects/index.html
Better country – aye – better at corruption, better at covering up deaths, better are cronyism, better at bullying, better at stealing everyone else’s resources, better at tax evasion, better at making the poor poorer, better at building houses that are dangerous, better at everything and anything that is good for the elite, the tax evaders and the conscience free.
@Maggie C –
Genuinely gobsmacked here!
Wow!
“O, wad some Power the giftie gie us
To see oursels as others see us!
It wad frae monie a blunder free us,
An’ foolish notion.”
Awe you anti-vaxxers might find yourself cast out to the islands like the lepers to fend for yourselves. Behave yirsel and get the vac lol
Ian Brotherhood
Every scandal sheet and conspiracy web site has been searching desperately for someone among the tens of thousands of volunteers who may have had bad Covid vaccine side effects.
So far the worst has been a little soreness around the injection site which disappeared in a day.
I’ve had much worse with the Typhoid shots I had every six months when I was in India but it’s better than the disease. Bring it on.
Putting critical health communication into practice, here’s a look at “Vaccine communication in a digital society”.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41563-020-0626-7
@Fireproofjim says:
3 December, 2020 at 10:51 pm
“I’ve had much worse with the Typhoid shots”
I know how you felt. The only thing comparable was getting an anaesthetic jab directly into a deep cut in my hand so they could stitch it. Stung a bit…
Ian Brotherhood @ 10.36 pm
It’s interesting that P Murrell is the only witness called on Tuesday ,
So it’s possibly going to be a long session .
@AYRSHIRE ROB (10.50) –
It’s become clear, throughout the course of the evening, that you feel passionately about this subject.
Is there anyone you know who could present it coherently on your behalf?
@Maggie C 10.28.
Once again, thanks for keeping us up to speed with the inquiry. Hope he has some explanation for his WhatsApp messages.
@Fireproofjim,
The reported side effects are no worse than many girls feel post anti cervical Cancer shots.
The big unanswered question is how long does it last? There’s simply no data on that.
Ian Brotherhood 11.11pm
Best comment of the night Mr Brotherhood.
In other words Ayrshire bob,,, you are a fuckin prick.
Andy: “Refusing to take the vaccine should be as socially acceptable as drink driving or not wearing a seatbelt.”
There’s a cosmos of difference in moral terms between drink driving and not wearing a seat belt.
I myself only wear a seat belt because I don’t want a fine. No moral questions arise.
Drink driving is an entirely different thing because it could very well result in harm to others.
If around 70% accept the vaccine and it works, it’s unlikely that remaining 30% will harm anyone but themselves. We are talking about a virus with extremely low morbidity rates.
Most moral judgements rest on subjectivity. I’ve read moral arguments in favour of wiping out half of mankind.
I’m getting pretty sick of the cancel culture that permeates everything these days.
We’ve all had a scare this year and a shit time. It’s time to take all the energy we put into negative stuff and put it into positive stuff.
The speed at which these vaccines have been produced and cleared for use, is bound to concern some folk. So here’s a look at “Ethics and vaccination”
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/14034940310018192
@Hatuey (11.36) –
Nice one.
Nytol!
😉
The only rational person I see is Ayrshire Rob.
Side effects lot less than a sloppy nurse giving a flu jag.
My wife observes ‘try giving birth’
My grannie,may she rest in peace,observes ‘better than dead’
https://www.thenational.scot/news/18919272.yes-alba-top-indy-activists-snp-mp-elected-lead-new-organisation/
I apologise if this is old news to everyone on Wings.
I’ve just read in a Scottish newspaper that Mr and Mrs Murrell are looking at homes to buy in Bothwell and Uddingston, lanarkshire.
Not only has Pfizer been given a legal indemnity
Here’s a comforting quote from their UK Managing Director
We’re not actually disclosing any of the details around any of the aspects of that agreement and specifically around the liability clauses.
https://archive.is/LEaCQ
I see the resident arse Ronald or is Stanley out tonight thinks your great. That’s brill.
If you don’t like it don’t expect to go the hospital and get yir piles sorted.
If doctors and nurses refuse treatmentto treat people who possibly being (a)symptomatic, spreading the disease in hospitals start to protest, I’m with them 100% .
Go figure
So Ayrshire bob
You gonna be first in line to fill your viens with whatever pish that english vaccine is filled with,,, just because your doctor told you it’ll be just fine?
Vaccination safety is a topic that generate strong emotions, which are apt to cloud judgement and skew decisions. It simply isn’t rational to trust your health to a Tory government that has mismanaged the pandemic from day one. It isn’t particularly rational either though, to assume the UK’s medicines regulator is bent. Or would be daft enough to collude on such a scale of malpractice. Though most public institutions do admittedly bend to the will of British nationalism.
So here’s a look at “An ethical framework for public health immunisation programs”.
https://www.phrp.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/NB11045.pdf
“This paper presents seven ethical principles associated with the implementation of immunisation programs. For a public health immunisation program to be ethically justifiable, its principles and operation should be based on sound ethical values: the program should benefit the individual and the community; targeted diseases should be sufficiently severe and frequent to justify the risks and expense of the program, and vulnerable groups within the population should be targeted. The principles also deal with the obligation to monitor for adverse events and for disease incidence to ensure safety and effectiveness.
When immunisations are voluntary, vaccine recipients or their parents or carers should be given sufficient information to make autonomous, informed decisions and incentives to participate in public health immunisation programs should not be coercive. Public health immunisation programs depend on mutual trust, which may be threatened by circumstances such as excessive media publicity about adverse events associated
with vaccines.”
Another thing Ian B
You seem to be making the same type of me me me point that the wee woke creeps are making regards GRA and wanting to access safe spaces for women that you’re against.
Hospitals are supposed to be safe spaces where people go to get help,not to be infected by people with a potentially deadly disease from people who refuse to be vaccinated or tested . Think of the docs and nurses and don’t be so selfish.
Shut up Ronald ya bigot twat. Play the other song. I’ve nothing against English folk.
Masslass ‘I’ve just read in a Scottish newspaper that Mr and Mrs Murrell are looking at homes to buy in Bothwell and Uddingston, lanarkshire.’
What, one each? 😉
@Ronald Fraser
whatever pish that english vaccine is filled with
It’s not an English vaccine though. It was created by Pfizer (a US company) & BioNTech (a German company founded by Turkish immigrants). It’s being manufactured in Belgium.
The only thing English about it is that it’s been the subject of Westminster Tory lies.
I think the Rev’s main point was the sick irony in claiming Top Nation status (for being first to clear a vaccine for use) a few hours before turning out to be Top Nation for Covid deaths.
Even the BBC had a temporary lapse & drew people’s attention to this by putting the stories together on their front page. I was so shocked I tweeted a screenshot:
https://twitter.com/bld2013/status/1334540358877896704
(regular reader, rare commenter)
@Masslass
I’ve just read in a Scottish newspaper that Mr and Mrs Murrell are looking at homes to buy in Bothwell and Uddingston, lanarkshire.
Is this new news, or just a rehash of the 2016 story?
https://archive.vn/KeeHR
Don’t they already live at Uddingston?
Remember if you get vaccinated for covid you still catch the virus, you still spread the virus but you simply are very much less likely to die from it or suffer any health complications.
A microbiologist at Auckland University in NZ, Dr Siouxie Wiles, regularly publishes extremely helpful articles on covid, always extending her readers’ understanding. The last paragraph in her latest,
https://thespinoff.co.nz/society/04-12-2020/siouxsie-wiles-britains-emergency-rush-to-a-vaccine-rollout-explained/ ,
is the first time she has moved “beyond the science” and is brutally excoriating for the toxic Tories here.
I dunno, but finding it difficult to avoid putting that the UK got the vaccine first because ‘it’s a better country’ in the same bracket of exceptionalism as the Nazis declaring themselves Herrenrasse,the Master Race.
I’d maybe stop short of calling Williamson a Nazi over one stupid remark, but somebody needs to take him aside and have a word in his ear.
Stuart MacKay @ 7:38
“Remember if you get vaccinated for covid you still catch the virus, you still spread the virus but you simply are very much less likely to die from it or suffer any health complications.”
Indeed. And for the over 50’s, this applies to around 62% of you.
The remaining 38% may as well have taken an aspirin for all the good it’ll do, but they won’t know they’re one of the 38%, and not one of the 62%, until it’s too late!
But don’t let that spoil your little bout of jingoism Mr Williamson.
I’m no antivaxxer at all. But folk who are saying just take it and shut up and trust your government are as ridiculous as they are.
So let me ask you a question. Do you think we should trust science? Yes?
Okay. I’ll trust the science too, so where are the peer reviews to prove there is actual science involved in the verification of the drug’s safety?
Hi Lynne 4.00am
I was actually talking about the Oxford (england) vaccine that is also due out.
The zoomer “AYRSHIRE bob” doesn’t seem to mind what gets infected into his body, as long as his doctor said it was ok.
That was my point.
The two bob english injection will be getting nowhere near my arm.
Even the Independent newspaper has been critical. Of course not the beeb. Just the usual everything is fine.
Regarding the vaccine, the EU is saying it will not be giving it to the unsuspecting hordes prior to further testing ,they will not be rushing in to another Thalidomide in a hurry .
I am old and quite likely to be offered it early – should some brave soul wish to pretend to be me they are most welcome to take my place.
I most certainly will NOT be jostling to be at the front of the queue particularly as the incompetents in Westminster are so keen for me so to do.
The Vaccine
I’ve avoided and vaccine or virus comments, or even reading comments about it, up to now. Mainly because you have to wait and see what they come up with, and there’s little point in speculating.
As with any kind of medication, it’s a balance of risks. Nearly all medication has some kind of side-effect, and some people can react badly to even the most benign medications: that’s because we are all different, we are not a homogenous (exactly the same) set of bodies. So there is the general risk, then the personal risk that need to be considered.
If you read instructions on any medication, they are obliged to produce the ‘contraindication’ section (no, I can’t pronounce it either) – that’s the first one you should go to, that’s the one that tells you not to take it if you are in a certain category. People taking a cocktail of other medications are always told to go to their GP, because it’s too complex to work out.
Peter N at 6.48pm above makes some very good points about how approval for use is given, and is worth reading.
I thought I’d read up on the different vaccines when they came out, but it sounds like there is limited published information even now. I have a thread to study on what IS known – but I think we can say for certain that Pfizer have not released enough information about how the study was conducted, and certain kinds of results. Given that this is a new type of vaccination (using mRNA: it seems to be all about protein coatings and activating killer T-cells – the point about that is that vaccines all inoculate against a future disease by activating some part of your own immune system. Killer T cells are fairly fierce and are not always your friend, re autoimmune sensitivities. No one already ill would get the vaccination though, so the strange variety of immune responses there shouldn’t matter – contraindication there! You don’t get it if you are already ill) – so given that this is a new type of vaccine, we’d expect a fair amount of reassurance on its effects – but at the same time, we are in a rush, and not enough of the testing phase has been done.
It’s a balance of risks – the general risk of taking a barely tested medication – and the personal risk, where you have to know if your own body can handle the side effects, and if it’s worth it.
If you are on the front-line working and dealing with the public every day, particularly ill people, you are going to take it because it is worth the risk of potential side-effects, or its lack of efficacy.
You also have to remember that all the researchers and people working on the development are working with the best of intentions – whatever the big pharma business people say or do, the people actually doing the work would never knowingly produce anything toxic. But, they might also be relying on the usual round of human studies, which has been very brief in this case. But at least it doesn’t appear to actually kill people – it’s the long term effects that are unknown – and you can only know that if we waited and kept testing for a few years. So we will be getting a very large, uncontrolled, population study now, live, in the field. Not the best way, but there is an urgency to it.
The rest of us are meant to be inoculated to protect the vulnerable – because they are less likely to be able to tolerate the side effects – so in that respect we do have a social responsibility, a duty of care, to get vaccinated if healthy.
In this case, there are so many unknowns – including its efficacy (do you need 1 or 2 injections? That’s very unclear), and how long it could last – and, to be honest, it sounds like a sticking plaster solution until something better comes along – it has to come down to personal judgement.
Consider things like: are you in a high risk category of spreading/catching the disease, do you have a choice in what you do, that is, would you be able to, or prefer to, isolate rather than take a vaccination?
Say I wanted to go to the dentist – is it fair me going without having been vaccinated? Well, I could isolate for two weeks before hand, and if they are all inoculated they are protected, so in that case not worth a vaccination maybe. For the dentist – he/she really needs to take it (though they do tend to be very good at infection control already) because they work with the public so intimately.
Say I wanted to go out into the public at large every day all day, and function normally, breathing on people, elbowing them out of the way etc, then yes, I should take what’s available. If my work force me to go back into the office (and they would have to force me), I’ll probably have to take it. I’m definitely low priority though, and with limited supplies I wouldn’t take a vaccine just now even if I had a huge desire to do so – I’ve effectively stayed isolated for the most part and can continue to do so, until it’s absolutely necessary I start mingling again.
You need to make your own choice. This particular vaccine doesn’t sound like the mass-inoculation panacea – but there will be more to come (the virus just mutates into the next version anyway) – so there will still be restrictions, track and trace, isolation etc. A mixture of these measures is good, and should get us more in control of the boom/bust cycle, and get more certainty and more freedoms if the vaccine works well enough. It would be a mistake for any government just to say everything can go back to normal though, at this stage.
That’s my tuppence worth.
Would you trust anybody who says,,,
“I’m immune to Coronavirus, I’ve just been injected with the Oxford (engerland) vaccine”?
Would I fuck!!!
Keep yer english pish Boris.
As said above, Boris will punt his rat’s pish Oxford vaccine on to India, along with his english Navy’s spare Aircraft Carrier.
Contrary, I got way more than tuppence out of that and Peter N, I knew about the indemnity clauses but not to that level of detail.
It’s really hard to comment on anything without falling into or being painted into one side or the other. Your comments were excellent and very informative. Thanks!
@Contrary,
To be honest I would prefer the Oxford vaccine. It is genetically modified cells of the chimpanzee cold virus.tailored to attack the protein spikes on Covid.
Oxford have analysed and sequenced the genetic code of the virus and found their vaccine does indeed allow the body natural defences to attack and kill the virus.
As you say though, everybody has a decision to make.
I will take it though I’m not sure which one I will be offered due to supply, time \ date of appointment etc.
MaggieC at 10.28pm
Thank you for the Inquiry update, as always, Maggie.
Tuesday 8 December 2020
The Committee will meet at 10.15 am in the Robert Burns Room.
1. Complaints Handling: The Committee will take evidence from —
Peter Murrell, Chief Executive, Scottish National Party.
On Tuesday we will hear what top legal advice the thousands of pounds of SNP members’/woven Indy Ref money bought for Mr Murrell, from ‘one of Scotland’s biggest law firms’ Shepperd and Wedderburn.
Hopefully a bit more than – I have forgotten everything/It wasn’t me, I wasn’t there/Nicola never tells me anything.
Andy Ellis @ 9:14pm,
That is a completely ridiculous comment, a comment that would could have been expected from the shallow thinking of a pompous 8 year old or Ayrshire Rob.
Demanding that everyone should be forced or shamed into getting a vaccine that they (A), do not want and (B), do not need. Yet it is even worse than that, you also demand that of the people that have justifiable fears of a new vaccine and the as yet unknown effects.
Presumably, you will also be demanding that every Tom, Dick and Harriet will have other vaccines, whatever they are for, administered by force such as the flu jab or why stop there, why not shingles or yellow fever. No need to discern who could benefit from it or not, just force everyone to be vaccinated.
Ayrshire Rob’s argument is that if you have reasonable and understandable reservations about this particular vaccine, then it follows that you have reservations about all vaccines. This is unfortunately reflects the level of thinking that a chimpanzee with learning difficulties would find hard to sink to.
Vaccines are of course incredibly important, that should go without saying to people with any sense at all, yet here I am having to say it, but not because of people like Ayrshire Rob, who carries no gravitas whatsoever but because of people like you who do.
So just to clarify for the hard of thinking, generally speaking, vaccines are a fantastic idea and we are lucky that we have them.
We cannot say that about this specific vaccine, yet.
We should not be forcing people to be vaccinated. (Where the fuck does that stop?)
So, it would be helpful if people like you who are considered to be thoughtful would desist with the anti-vaccer and flat-earther crap and apologise.
Jolly sporting of Britain to act as a guinea pig for Europe, what? Those Johnny foreigner types don’t like it up ’em, what what?
Bob Mack,
Thanks for the insight – as I say, I’ve delayed looking into any of the detail of vaccines, just that all the hype at the start said they were using new techniques, so rather than waste my time investigating what exactly that was and meant, I’d wait to see what ones were going to be presented, so target any learning when the successful ones were known.
The human immune system is a complex beast, and not one I’d ever pretend to understand, and any vaccine always comes down to activating our immune systems in some way to protect us. That’s the basic principle behind it – I’ll personally look at what part of the immune system it activates, what mechanism it uses to stimulate it, and possible long-term effects – if, as you say, I am given a choice! Or if I need to take it.
I avoid medication as much as possible anyway, I will not take antibiotics unless absolutely necessary, for instance – very very good that they exist and are available if needed, but not something to take casually when feeling a bit poorly. I have to be at my wits end and have been very ill for weeks and my doctor really pissed off with me before taking any (good and bad points to that attitude admittedly!).
Having read a bit about the way this virus works, it appears that there is a very complex immune response to it, and it’s different in different people, and no one really knows why or how yet. That just raises the uncertainty, on the efficacy of any vaccine (if it hasn’t had widespread long-term testing).
Genetic sequencing isn’t, of course, a panacea either – it’s how the information is used. Its new and untested too (but not dissimilar to our ‘normal’ vaccines that use a disabled or weakened virus to stimulate an immune response, and I’d have more trust in the genetic modifications than that technique!). But, yes, I need to go read more about it.
@Contrary,
I’m a bit more laid back about this I suppose. Like many on here I probably come from a generation who spent a lifetime eating food with unpronounceable chemicals as part constituents. Even Smokey bacon crisps which had no bacon whatsoever, but a chemical favouring with a longer name than the famous Welsh village.
I’m still here.
Breastplate
Another fucking clown that doesn’t get it.I never said everyone should be forced ya clown.
Now that we’re closer to an end solution to this pandemic,I said don’t expect to go to a safe place ,ie hospital or a dentist and expect them to run after you like a fecking jumped up woke twat and expect them to treat you if you haven’t took reasonable precautions to there health and everyone in the place.
The wokes deploy the same theory,me me me I demand this,I demand that.
Nowhere have I ever said people should be forced,just not be a selfish bastard because ‘that’s my liberty your talking’
Do fuck off war that pish.
It’s common sense.
As for that other unionist twat Ronald that seems to have fooled some in here,more fool you.That eegit is more likely to be standing on wrong side of an AOUB march standing next to mankie jaiket.
He’s never made a comment yet that makes me think he’s here to look after your independence aspirations.
Am done, have a nice day.
Surprised there hasn’t been more comment on here regarding the formation of Yes Alba. We should all be getting behind that organisation. It has exciting potential.
https://www.thenational.scot/news/18919272.yes-alba-top-indy-activists-snp-mp-elected-lead-new-organisation/?ref=twtrec
I hope we are seeing the potential foundations of a new political party being put in place. That has to be an option. And if that happens, with a bunch of big names and people that are authentic on board, the whole political landscape will change.
Sturgeon’s biggest mistake, even bigger than the attempted stitch up, was to take the support of the grassroots for granted – actually it’s worse than that, she couldn’t have behaved more insultingly towards the grassroots.
Keeping the SNP honest definitely isn’t an option, that horse has well and truly fucking bolted, but a new platform for exposing the incoherent crap and spin they pump out could play a huge part.
The days of disregarding us are over.
Yes Caesar?
Stuart Mackay, thanks for the feedback! Good that it’s useful – like anything in life: it’s not black and white, not all or nothing. It’s all shades of gray, and there is a lot of haze around this – so I think it’s about enabling people to make an informed choice, a personal choice, that takes into consideration the safety of the population too. Getting bullied into doing something without enough information isn’t the way to go.
Devi Sihdar is a good source – that’s part of her job: interpreting reasearch and medical stuff and informing the public. But, you also have to remember, they look at populations. That is, it’s the macro, the overall effect on a population, not individuals’ lives – 95% is great, unless you are one of the 5% for example. It’s positive that there are vaccines being produced now, but there is a long way to go still. At no point should anyone feel obliged to use this vaccine unless their lifestyle demands they take the risk, or they feel confortable about it. There will be more along soon enough. This vaccine will *possibly* protect *quite a lot* of people. That is: not definitely, and not everyone.
I think most people aren’t aware of the risks they already take in everyday life anyway. We rely on regulation for so much, and health and safety standards, and people take much for granted. If you buy a packet of meat from the supermarket, there is still a risk you will get food poisoning even within the use-by date – it’s just a very low percentage chance you will. Nothing is absolute, it’s just about minimising the chance of harm.
But also, I think the amount of research going on is a good thing – there will be many good developments with this amount of money being pumped into it (some of it will reach the research bods)- expanding our knowledge base and finding new and better ways to treat various conditions: it’s not just about the vaccine itself – even if it’s a bit shitty we are getting used as test subjects, it’s good that they exist, and everyone testing any of the vaccines out is doing a great public service. (But, should always be voluntary, unless they get unequivocal proof of efficacy and contraindications).
Jeezo, I know he’s a foppish English idiot but this quote
‘I just reckon we’ve got the very best people in this country and we’ve obviously got the best medical regulator, much better than the French have, much better than the Belgians have, much better than the Americans have.
“That doesn’t surprise me at all, because we’re a much better country than every single one of them.”
proves he’s worse than I thought. I’m not anti-vaccines by any measure, but am entirely suspicious of a government such as the present Tory one pressuring a regulator to enable them to get a large supply of vaccine while they still easily can prior to Brexit. I don’t trust anything they’re pushing and the fact UK regulator is first, not to mention Sturgeon is now also pushing it, together with some paucity of trials info, and even the fact Faucci is more sceptical leads me to see a lot of cons and not many pros so far this early on the side of this particular vaccine.
@ Contrary
I agree with someone above, your post on the vaccine further up was thoughtful, detailed and balanced. We all should aim for that considered response to any form of medication or medical treatment, unfortunately as the trans stuff proves, so few do.
Bob, A L B A triggers the wordpress filter and automatically gets changed to caesar, Another substitute word is tractor which is usually preceded by Quis…
Bob Mack
Haha, I know what you mean, I love so many of those chemicals! Smokey bacon crisps is a good example – the mainstay of the vegan diet, haha, all chemicals so no worries. Trouble is, supposed ‘natural’ stuff can be bad for you too, particularly if you have allergies. Trying to find food with ‘lemon flavouring’ instead of ‘real lemon juice!’ can be a chore for instance. Sigh. Swings and roundabouts. We don’t have it as bad as the Americans have had at least, for additives.
Ayrshire Rob,
You’ve been on here calling people “anti-vaxxers” which is totally unsurprising, I expect nothing more from you so please don’t be alarmed if I fail to take you seriously and accept my apologies for rattling your cage.
Perhaps a banana will calm your mood, or ride on your tricycle?
I was much more concerned that people with more sense were using phrases like “flat-earthers”.
Contrary
It’s a very long time since I was trained for the job of “interpreting reasearch and medical stuff and informing the public”. Those were some cracking comments though, and you hit the nail on the head re. choice. So here’s a look at “Identifying ethical issues in the development of vaccines and in vaccination”.
https://ijme.in/articles/identifying-ethical-issues-in-the-development-of-vaccines-and-in-vaccination/?galley=html
“Vaccines are a widely accepted public health intervention. They are also a profitable tool for pharmaceutical companies manufacturing vaccines. There are many vaccines in the pipeline, for various diseases, or as combination vaccines for several diseases. However, there is also a growing concern about vaccines and the manner in which they are developed and approved by the authorities.
Approvals are fast tracked and adverse events and serious adverse events following vaccination are seldom reported once the vaccine gets its marketing approval. Thus, vaccines have been clouded with many controversies and their use as a public health tool to prevent diseases is constantly under challenge.
Public health and human rights have an intrinsic link, and any public health programme can be successful if the rights of people are respected, and upheld. A routine or compulsory vaccine programme tends to ignore rights of people that augment the legal and ethical issues relating to vaccinations. This article aims to identify the legal and ethical issues in the development of vaccines and in vaccination processes.”
Contrary
No vaccine is 100% effective, the 95% figure was in a clinical test, in the real world it will be less, but still significantly higher than the effectiveness of the Flu Vaccine which is under 50%.
The Vaccine currently being imported from Belgium does not contain any Covid-19 but targets a Immune response against the protein (the Spikes you see ) kill the protein and you kill Covid .
As somebody who has had to get Jabbed up often for multiple Potential conditions When I used to travel a lot with Work and had no side effects apart from minor short term issues, and as somebody who meets the profile of a Covid Statistic – Age/weight and underlying health condition , i would take it tomorrow if I could.
Ok, so why does A L B A trigger the Word Press filter?
Humans run risks every day of the year. I wonder if Henry Ford would have created his cars if he knew how many people have died in them since or air travel for that mattef.
We are all grown ups. We can evaluate the risks and act accordingly, just as we do every day
Because years ago loads of people were putting a sign off at the end of their post with ” S a o r a l b a” AFAI can remember and if you look at rules above this text box, you will see
DO NOT SIGN YOUR COMMENTS, either with a name or a slogan. If your comment does not appear immediately, DO NOT REPOST IT. Ignore these rules and I WILL KILL YOU WITH HAMMERS.
Thanks Alan.
CameronBB
Thanks for that – yes there are huge ethical issues – those issues could be debated forever, so I have steered clear. Mainly because, it’s not something we should have deal with on top of everything else just now – those issues are to do with ensuring our governments are fit for purpose (they aren’t), looking at electoral change to make sure they are, and giving our governments a hammering once we feel safe enough – for now, we need to make the best of what we have, and make our own choices – but that includes being aware that ‘official’ doesn’t necessarily equate to ‘safe’.
it’s the specificity of saying the fault lies with vaccines that perplexes me though – all medications produced are about maximising sales and profit (good ol neoliberalism) – why do people think cold remedies are designed, and advertised, to allow you to ‘keep going’ – they are designed to mask symptoms enough to get you out there spreading your cold (so more people need whatever wonder-relief it is). But, they work, and do relieve symptoms, so aren’t in themselves a bad thing – its the advertising to make us go out spreading that’s bad, we should be in bed recovering still, just not feeling quite as crap while doing it.
The vaccines themselves are not bad, it’s the information surrounding them that’s the problem, including which ones there might be a need for or not. That’s where trustworthy governments come in. That’s where electoral reform comes in. That’s why we should pay attention to what public health people say.
People not giving a measles vaccination to their child, for instance, because the government can’t be trusted is pretty stupid – I’ve had measles, and it’s,,, not good, but luckily everyone else around me had been vaccinated, so I didn’t spread (obviously, I wasn’t mingling at the time either, I was definitely isolated) – it’s tried and tested, and it works, though there is always a risk, which increases with every person not getting vaccinated. If I’d been given the choice as a baby I’d have taken the vaccination with any of those possible small attendant risks for sure (it was an accident I’d missed it, not a purposeful avoidance – and my mum said she would have made more effort at the time if she had known what the consequences were). The BCG and tuberculosis – I can’t even imagine what life would be like if we hadn’t gone through that inoculation phase.
But that’s what we have public health officials for – they professionally decide the need and value of any mass vaccination effort. Those are the people to listen to.
“I’m no antivaxxer at all. But folk who are saying just take it and shut up and trust your government are as ridiculous as they are.”
Yup. I’m 150% pro-vaccination, but it’s absolutely the case that this particular one is being rushed into use before it’s properly ready – I learned with interest last week the difference between “authorised” and “approved” – so it’s really unhelpful to monster anyone raising even the most modest and reasoned observations to that effect.
Some pretty fundamental ethical issues, so here’s a look at “Refusal of Vaccination: A Test to Balance Societal and Individual Interests”. Though Brexit indicates Westminster does not respect the fundamental rights of those living in Scotland.
http://www.clinicalethics.com/single_article/HHhdXzbwQA.pdf
“While all states in the United States require certain vaccinations for school attendance, all but three allow for religious exemptions to receiving such vaccinations, and 18 allow for exemptions on the basis of other deeply held personal beliefs. The rights of parents to raise children as they see fit may conflict with the duty of the government and society to protect the welfare of children.
In the U.S., these conflicts have not been settled in a uniform and consistent manner. We apply a test that provides a concrete and formal rubric to evaluate such conflicts. For some vaccinations, based on the individual medical characteristics of the disease and the risks of being unvaccinated, the test would suggest that permitting
conscientious exemptions is ethical.
However, for vaccinations protecting against other diseases that are more severe or easily transmitted, the test would suggest that the federal government may ethically impose laws that deny such exemptions.”
Excellent Stuart. I had just been reading the news before I read your post and I thought exactly the same thing when I read “because we’re a better country”. Better in what way exactly? The UK has one of the worst records in the world for its handling of the pandemic, and not only that, it has failed just as catastrophically in terms of economic resilience and recovery. No one country is better than any other. In Scotland we just want what all other normal nations have – the right to self-determination and the ability to better ourselves and our environment.
T Jenny 12.42pm Lynne 4.14pm
It was the Motherwell Times on line. Mentioned they had a house in Glasgow and of course the FM Bute House?
It was this weeks newspaper I was reading. Dec 3 2020.
@ Hatuey 10.21am I read that article online last night and instead of rallying round and supporting the aims and intentions of YES A L B A some of the commenters were more interested in denigrating and calling out Craig Murray for having the AUDACITY and DISRESPECT to call out or question the sainted one , it was more a pile on AGAINST Craig than an
embarrassing ADMITTANCE that YES A L B A had even had to be formed .
Some were even mentioning the achievements of the SNP under the direction of the sainted one which I was forced to question , it is truly frightening when we have people so enamoured of an individual that they are unwilling or unable to FACE the TRUTH when the evidence is so apparent and mounting
I won’t be rushing to have the vaccine from anyone until much more data is available. See this article in the BMJ (not exactly a conspiracy theory site).
https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2020/11/26/peter-doshi-pfizer-and-modernas-95-effective-vaccines-lets-be-cautious-and-first-see-the-full-data/
Then follow the thread and see response from a poster who made a FOI request for the data submitted by Pfizer to the MRHA. Wasn’t provided as it was deemed “not to be in the public interest.”