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They’re taking you for fools

Posted on November 03, 2022 by

Blue-haired brain vacuum Kirsty Blackman in Westminster yesterday, during the SNP’s big showpiece “let’s pretend we’re doing something about independence” debate.

So presumably she’s made it her priority since she was elected seven years ago, right?

But you already knew that, didn’t you?

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    131 to “They’re taking you for fools”

    1. Willie says:

      Yep, she’s not interested in independence. In fact none of her Westminster chums are either.

      But we know that. The SNP now have no interest in independence. Nor do they have much interest in much else.

      At Westminster they have become a group who take their pay and perks and deliver nothing. If they were to dissappear tomorrow there would not be missed. Totally, uterly useless, ineffectual.

      And on Hollywood their namesakes a very much the same. Save for focusses on turning the country upside down on Trans issues, or trying to stich up political opponents supporting independence, what do the Hollywood bunch deliver?

      Just think about it. What have these two bunches of well paid wasters delivered.

      Brexit, a collapsing economy, an energy crisis in a country endowed with energy, failing healthcare, failing education, land reform, the metrics of absolute failure are there for all to see.

      And Kitsty Blackman, she is but just one of the absolutely do nothing SNP.

    2. Politically Homeless says:

      So what our little emo is saying is that a vote for this incarnation of the SNP is just a protest vote. Labour would probably deliver the same kind of centrist social democratic stuff under devolution as Sturgeonism. You’d honestly be pretty thick to vote Sturgeon Party over Labour in a Westminster election, because you’re effectively increasing the likelihood of a Tory government for the sake of having a handful of preening idiots in the chamber virtue signaling about “Scotland.” The oxygen of the SNP project is all dependent on this penny not dropping.

    3. sarah says:

      Totally agree. Where do they find these shallow, foolish people to be MP candidates for SNP. Why didn’t they look around for highly intelligent, balanced people e.g. Tim Rideout, Alf Baird?

    4. Robert Hughes says:

      Looks like Fatboy Fat ie Che Blackford has sent out the message to the Identity Na’vi …..

      ” we’ve been rumbled , more of the vote-fodder are noticing our sloth and WM ease , mention the hitherto unmentionable – Independence – more frequently . Kid- on you’re upset , feign anger , stick-on your ” we really mean it this time ” mask , role-play defiance

      More Am-Dram Independence-lite Theatrics from the Trans-Independence Puppet Party .

      The 84/7 Company . 7% tolerable members . 84% worse than useless careerists

    5. Donald Raymond says:

      Where is the quote from?

    6. Scott says:

      Donald Raymond says:
      3 November, 2022 at 8:58 am

      Where is the quote from?

      Click on the quote, and it leads to this archived article in the Gadrunia, 2nd January 2018. She might have been still pished from the Hugmany…

      https://archive.ph/e3OXP

    7. Vivian O’Blivion says:

      This exercise in political futility was sandwiched between debates on micro-plastic filters in washing machines and bus services in Blaydon.
      According to the front page of McPrävda, the SNP “won” the debate. A glorious victory, freedom must be imminent.

    8. Rab Davis says:

      I wonder if she dyed her Baw Hairs blue?

      She looks more butch than Pete Wishart could ever dream of being.

      Another one of Sturgeon’s freaks who’s priority in life is pushing Scotland up to the number one slot in Chix with Dix league table.

      The fight for Scottish independence is
      is merely a background noise.

    9. McHaggis69 says:

      This is exactly the issue with the nuSNP and the final reason I left in 2020.

      They’ve gotten used to the quarter of a million pounds per year expenses paid lifestyle AND more importantly perhaps, they are using their positions as MP’s not to deliver their parties No1 stated priority, but a number of niche and often personal agendas.

      I get they have to do normal ‘MP stuff’, but *everything* they do should be coloured with the intention to gain Scotland’s independence.

    10. dandydons1903 says:

      Blackman is another woke waster in a party of woke wasters. Stringing the gullible along as they continue to board the wastemonster anglo norman cesspit gravy train express….oink oink.

    11. David Hannah says:

      Blackman the bully. Her and John Nicholson are two of the worst people in that place. She’s obviously on the spectrum, and not the good side either.

      She’s obviously going for the Blue Rinse look, which suits her personality. As she’s only in Westminster to rinse Scotland until we’re all blue in face.

      Screw her.

      Hail Alba. Our day will come!

    12. David Hannah says:

      You can put lipstick on a mouse but it’s still a sleekit timerous cowering beastie.

      SNPs Micky Mouse politician. A blue rise!

    13. Vivian O’Blivion says:

      The debate went to a vote where it passed 39 to zero.
      Wait a minute, I’m confused. The SNP has 45 MPs. Whit’s happening?
      Why didn’t all the SNP MPs vote? Why didn’t the unionist parties show up at all and wipe the SNP vote out in a tsunami?
      Oh, wait. For a vote to be binding, 40 MPs must be present and vote.
      The whole exercise was the very definition of political theatre. The SNP agreed in advance to keep their vote below the threshold of 40 and the unionist parties agreed to stay away.
      A cheap stunt designed to fail while generating a disingenuous headline to fool the pathologically gullible Nicophants.

    14. David Hannah says:

      Thanks for exposing their act Vivian.

      Hopefully the Alba Party MPs get right on this 39 MPs theatrical performance and tell Scotland the SNP are lying bastards.

      And bad ones too.

    15. Republicofscotland says:

      This is typical of SNP MPs, self-interest is the name of the game to keep their snouts pressed firmly into the taxpayers trough, and only mention Scottish independence when it suits their needs.

      Craig Murray wants us to vote for the SNP IF, and its bloody big IF, Sturgeon runs at the next GE as a plebiscite, which I agree with, a win in the plebiscite and we would declare independence, however if Sturgeon backstabs us and claims the plebiscite is nothing more than just permission (If we win it) to hold an indyref, then we MUST vote for the Alba party, and wait for it to rise significantly in the future.

      The big problem I see is that we cannot trust Sturgeon and by the looks of this article her MPs, to do the right thing by us on a plebiscite election.

      Sturgeon MUST make it crystal clear that the next GE will be held as a plebiscitary one, and that if yes wins, it doesn’t then lead to an indyref, but to a declaration of independence.

    16. Scott says:

      Vivian O’Blivion says:
      3 November, 2022 at 10:10 am

      The debate went to a vote where it passed 39 to zero.
      Wait a minute, I’m confused.

      Oh, wait. For a vote to be binding, 40 MPs must be present and vote.

      The whole exercise was the very definition of political theatre. The SNP agreed in advance to keep their vote below the threshold of 40 and the unionist parties agreed to stay away.

      A cheap stunt designed to fail while generating a disingenuous headline to fool the pathologically gullible Nicophants.

      For a vote on any matter to be held there must be 40 MPs (quorum) in the Chamber.

      Speaker & tellers + 39 voting members = 44

      It was a gimmick, as all non-binding motions are. In fact, most of ‘the business’ in the legislatures of London & Edinburgh is meaningless shite akin to the Society For Putting Things On Top Of Other Things, and a sign that there’s no need for a permanently sitting Parliament.

      It’s performance art with no actual basis in law to even take place.

      FM is elected by the chamber, not the electorate. Ruth the Mooth could’ve been FM and then chosen a cabinet of SNP members if that is what she and they wanted.

      Holyrood is supposed to operate as a single body, with PO > Scottish Ministers > NGO MSPs all working for the common good not for a particular audience in their respective parties.

      I wonder if this Act can assist in changing Scotland for the better….

      Private Legislation (Scotland) Act 1936

      1. When any public authority or any persons (hereinafter referred to as the petitioners) desire to obtain Parliamentary powers in regard to any matter affecting public or private interests in Scotland for which they would have been, before the commencement of the [62 & 63 Vict. c. 47.] Private Legislation Procedure (Scotland) Act, 1899, entitled to apply to Parliament by a petition for leave to bring in a Private Bill, they shall proceed by presenting a petition to the Secretary of State, praying him to issue a Provisional Order in accordance with the terms of a draft Order submitted to him, or with such modifications as shall be necessary.

      http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Geo5and1Edw8/26/52/enacted

      Is Sara Salyers in the building?

    17. stuart mctavish says:

      I see right at bottom of the wiki entry (under the 7 years ago link) she provoked an exchange from honest Ali Carmichael about the lack of progressiveness in making Scots rich at english expense.. so so long as she was on the right side of that argument (ie the lack of progress being easily explained by lying liars lying) that’s good enough for me – conservative choice in hair colour and a preference for much bigger smiles when the masks are off notwithstanding.

    18. David Hannah says:

      McHaggis69 says:

      “I get they have to do normal ‘MP stuff’, but *everything* they do should be coloured with the intention to gain Scotland’s independence.”

      I see them doing nothing normal. I see ex SNP Councillor Mark Kerr in court on sexual abuse allegations. They are a party of weirdos.

      They can whip their MSPs to vote for GRA. But chose not to have all 45 vote for Independence in Westminster.

      Kirsty Blackman is online troll.

      So I’ll troll her and give her a taste of her own medicine. She reminds me of a cross breed between Huckleberry Hound and Mickey Mouse. Pronouns It/Thing.

      Her voice so squeaky and timid that the working class of Aberdeen are neither seen nor heard. This bellend, the state of her. A blue rinse haircut. Ready to rinse the people of Scotland for an all expenses ticket in the London Gravy Train. Its a shame we can’t leave her down there for all eternity.

      A fake debate from fake politicians. Its time to replace every single one of them. They’ll help make the case for their removal for us. It shouldn’t be a hard task.

    19. Lorna Campbell says:

      The blue hair is de rigueur for the ‘wokerati’ warriors of the SNP. Mhairi Black is another who said that independence was not a priority. By their (non) actions shall we know them, this bunch of useless articles as far as independence is concerned. There are more of them in Westminster and Holyrood than there are genuinely committed independistas. That walk-out when Kenny MacAskill stood up to speak was so cringingly disgusting that they should all be earmarked for ejection at the next GE. Big, big mistake, folks. Did ye think we widnae notice?

    20. Rab Davis says:

      The SNP MPs have morphed into bored eccentrics.

      They are stuck in London, they take shots each at turning up at Westminster.

      They have piles of spare money.

      It’s Party Time!!!

      Now and again they have to show up to vote, but that can be a real pain in the arse, because it so interrupts ones shopping.

      But I suppose the sacrifice has to be made to keep their thick as shit membership happy.

    21. Chas says:

      I think that a lot of posters are being very unfair to Blackman.
      Do they not realise that she previously suffered from mental health issues. Obviously she has not recovered as yet!

      Independence, in the short term, is no longer possible with the SNP, if it ever was! Far better for Scotland to vote Labour at the next GE. This would hopefully see the end of the Tories, with the added bonus of getting rid of Sturgeon IF Labour gained enough seats in Scotland. 10 extra would do-she would have to resign. A proper push for Independence could start thereafter-IN EARNEST. Food for thought!

    22. sarah says:

      @ Scott at 10.52 a.m.: “Is Sara Salyers in the building?”

      Your brilliant suggestion of a Private Bill in Westminster should be drawn to Sara’s attention immediately. I suggest you email sara@salvo.scot.

    23. stuart mctavish says:

      @Vivan oblivian

      I guess pairing could account for there being no tellers from the ‘no to indyref2’ side* but that still leaves 4 lib dems and 1 labour from Scottish constituencies who failed to act in accordance with their constituents preference.

      https://votes.parliament.uk/Votes/Commons/Division/1392#ayes

      *That being the case, and the question being agreed without English constituency votes for whatever reason, then from a strictly rules based order grounded in precedent, Mr Sunak can have little future influence (and no authority) in legislative matters north of Darlington other than to declare English independence ASAP – or abandon at least one of the promisses kept by his predecessors predecessor and insist upon indyref2 (also) ASAP.

    24. mike cassidy says:

      Politically Homeless 8.47am

      ” ..You’d honestly be pretty thick to vote Sturgeon Party over Labour in a Westminster election, because you’re effectively increasing the likelihood of a Tory government..”

      Hard to believe somebody posting on WOS is coming out wth this discredited nonsense

      If every SNP Westminster seat had instead voted Labour at the last GE

      It would have made no difference to the Tory Majority

    25. Rab Davis says:

      Politically Homeless 8.47am

      From a Tory government to a Labour government,,,I promise you, you won’t notice the change.

      England is SKINT.

      Interest rates hit 3% today and rising.

      There is a mini budget in less than two weeks,and a Tory government is going to be increasing the amount of tax people pay.

      ANY Labour government would be doing the exact same thing.

      So the “Shots each” style of English government we have had all our lives will continue.

      Scotland has been skint my whole adult life.

      That is all I have known, from Thatcher to the present Prime Minister.

      And why 50% of Scots STILL sit back and accept this beats me.

    26. James Che says:

      Alf Baird.

      I apologise for having little spare time at the moment to reply,
      Today I am cutting someones hair for them between being engaged with my own other duties of day to day,

      Re our conversation yesterday, that Scots have not had the question put before them throughout history,
      “Do you want to join in a treaty of union with Englands parliament” ?

      This parody that the actual Sovereign Scots are not in a treaty of union at all, due to the old Scottish parliament not being Sovereign over the Scots in 1707. (The Claim of Right officially before that date.)

      And the Scots not being asked that particular question, is reflected in the boast on UK parliament site,
      Where it states that the parliament of England decided not to put a Vote before the Scots, to ask the Question to join the Treaty of the union, as the Scots would probably vote against it.

      So a question I have asked before still arises.

      When and what date did the Scots ever join the Treaty?

      This fraudulent deceit upon Scotlands people is further magnified in the present day when the SNP
      State any man and his dog can vote in a referendum On Scottish independence.

      We ( Scotland) have independence officially already from the treaty of the union of parliaments. perhaps Sarah Salyers or AS could explain this better than I.

      There is no official date given that Scots and there Country of Scotland as a nation were ever asked to join,
      The only reference quoted by UK parliament is that Scots were not asked.

      So the deceit upon the Scots is continued by the SNP and NS and the UK with false referendums for Scots that officially never joined the Treaty of union with the English parliament in 1706/ 1707.

      So the parity is to confuse,
      The Scottish independence referendums in of themselves are for those whom are not Scottish living in Scotland.

    27. Jim Bo says:

      She’s despicable.

    28. Republicofscotland says:

      “I think that a lot of posters are being very unfair to Blackman.
      Do they not realise that she previously suffered from mental health issues. Obviously she has not recovered as yet!”

      The SNP doesn’t give a toss about mental health, Swinney announced yesterday that they’ll be a a thirty-odd million pound cut to the mental health budget.

      I don’t recall Blackman speaking out about that.

    29. 100%Yes says:

      Some people only ever look out for No.1.

    30. Republicofscotland says:

      So, the Scottish NHS is in such a mess that patient scans are being sent to Australia to be studied, at a cost of over half a million pounds to the Scottish taxpayer, this, we found out today at FMQ’s in which Sturgeon didn’t deny it when the statement was put to her.

      Not only are the scans being sent to Australia, but they are also being sent out all over Europe to be checked.

      Sturgeon’s response was that the Scottish NHS is suffering a staff shortage and that Brexit has exacerbated it as many folk from abroad left as they felt they were not wanted.

      The real reason for the shortage is that Sturgeon FAILED miserably to get Scotland out of this union and to then reassure these folk that they are wanted and that they perform a vital task within the Scottish NHS.

      Exiting the union would’ve allowed the Scottish government to plan ahead knowing they had all the levers of government to do so, and all the financial clout required by a country to protect its NHS and its people in the process.

      Instead, Sturgeon decided to betray Scots, and this scandalous betrayal has had a terrible knock-on effect to our public services.

    31. Liz says:

      Sorry, re Blackmans mental health.
      If she’s unwell she needs to step down.

      It’s not up to us to support a mentally unwell person at WM when she’s causing so much damage to the people of Scotland.
      Does she care about abused women being put in danger by self ID, does she hell.

    32. Breeks says:

      Rab Davis says:
      3 November, 2022 at 12:24 pm

      Now and again they have to show up to vote….

      It must be in the job description, besides every now and then making up a sentence with the word “Independence” in it… But that’s usually kept for when there’s an election happening.

      Wonder if any of these gravy pilgrims feel a twinge of guilt whenever they cross the Border back into Scotland. All that faith invested in them that just been betrayed, all that time and money squandered, and they’ve still achieved the square root of sweet fuck all. They’re not even pretending to try. Tossers.

      The thing Scotland cannae afford is a busload of treacherous troughing charlatans selling Scotland doon the river…

      Nae wonder they’re aw beginning to look like hoos ends. Must be all that comfort eating needed to allay all that guilt and anxiety pumping through their veins.

    33. James Che says:

      Breeks.

      The thing is what is being sold down the river belongs to the Sovereign Scot and his Country, the very people that was never asked if they want to join the treaty of the union according to the UK parliament.

      Its a whole sale theft of resources and taxation from a people and nation that the english government in 1706 decided not to ask to be part of the treaty.

      It actually could be classed as a criminal legal crime.
      Colonising a Country and its people that you have no Treaty with.

    34. James Che says:

      The English parliament recognised that the Scots were Sovereign when they signed the treaty of the two with the old scottish parliaments.
      Which it then cancelled.

      It also recognised that the Scots were a separate Sovereign people from the old Scottish parliament as it considered a separate vote was needed for the Scots as individuals from the entity called Scottish parliament.

      It knew in advance that the Scots as a nation and Country would not agree to joining the treaty of union, so deferred and omitted from asking the Scots to join.

      The old Scottish parliament briefly joined before the english parliament asked the Scottish parliament to close it’s official status as parliament of Scotland, hence no Scottish entry representatives into the English Westminster parliament when the British parliament commenced.

    35. Vivian O’Blivion says:

      Stuart McTavish @ 12:44
      I don’t really see how conveniently keeping the aye vote below the 40 threshold can be explained by pairing.
      Pairing is Parliamentary etiquette. It’s good etiquette to agree to a pairing request, but requests should be limited to essential Parliamentary business off site, maternity leave, medical emergencies and such. Are we to believe that seven unionist who would otherwise have voted fell into these categories and the SNP obliged out of courtesy?

    36. Grouser says:

      I’ve held my nose and voted SNP in the last couple of elections. I can no longer vote SNP as too many of the elected representatives have indicated in so many words that Independence is not a priority for them. I will look at who is on the next ballot paper and decide if there is an Independence supporting party there (not counting the Greens). If so I’ll vote for them; if not I will spoil my ballot paper by writing on it that I have lost confidence in the SNP and leave it at that.

    37. James Che says:

      Breeks.
      Alf Baird.

      There can be no Scottish parliament representatives sitting in Westminster Parliament today from the old Scottish parliament that closed its doors under Sine Die three hundred years ago,

      And has not reconvened as the (three estates) of Scotlands old parliament from Sine Die.
      The devolved parliament is under english Legislation laws and statues so therefore not a reconvened Scottish parliament.

      The SNP are false in representation of Scots under English laws and legislation devolved parliament as the Crown would be in a true Scottish parliament

      The Scots today have no representatives in Westminster from a Scottish parliament that closed its doors under Sine Die three hundred years ago.

      That is if we are to presume that the the Scots were asked at a specific date if they want to join in the political treaty of union.
      Which they have not up to present date.

    38. James Che says:

      Grouser.
      I will not vote for Snp either,
      I watched the footage when Kenny Got up to speak on Scottish energy in Westminster, they got up and walked out, disgusting lack of loyalties and support for kenny and and all Scots that are suffering this energy crises.

    39. James Che says:

      Liz,

      I think that would be the correct position for Blackman.

      If one is unfit or unwell you cannot participate in leading a country with sound mental state at all times.

    40. Republicofscotland says:

      “I’ve held my nose and voted SNP in the last couple of elections. I can no longer vote SNP as too many of the elected representatives have indicated in so many words that Independence is not a priority for them.”

      Grouser @3.44pm.

      I agree wholeheartedly, however Craig Murray’s article does make sense, in that if Sturgeon holds a plebiscite at the next GE and we win we can declare independence, Alba isn’t quite there yet so electing as many SNP MPs so as not to divide the vote to win is the logical course of action.

      As Craig Murray also points out, can we trust Sturgeon to do the right thing with the GE in mind, and to make sure winning the GE/Plebiscite will not just lead to achieving the right to hold an indyref.

      https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2022/10/a-real-plebiscite-election-or-fight-the-snp/

    41. Scott says:

      Private Legislation (Scotland) Act 1936

      1. When any public authority or any persons (hereinafter referred to as the petitioners) desire to obtain Parliamentary powers in regard to any matter affecting public or private interests in Scotland for which they would have been, before the commencement of the [62 & 63 Vict. c. 47.] Private Legislation Procedure (Scotland) Act 1899

      http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Geo5and1Edw8/26/52/enacted

      Alert readers will have spotted that Private Legislation Procedure (Scotland) Act 1899 isn’t available to view on the leg dot gov site, as it isn’t in a web-publishable format.

      Claim of Right Act 1689 they can manage, but there’s lots of bits of Scots law eb=nacted at WM that are invisible to the digital viewer, even though they have live links…to a dead end.

      http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1899/47

      Another change to add to the already long list. Alister Jack is going to be a busy man soon…lol.

    42. James Che says:

      Final comment before finishing other duties this evening.

      The English parliament have colonised The treaty of union they have with themselves,
      Which by their own admission and decision omitted to ask Scots if they wanted to join the treaty of union with a English parliament.

      No date in records can be found for Scots ever being asked that question since.

      The old Scottish parliament closed its doors 300 years ago under Sine Die, and has not reconvened since.

      That officially means that there are no continuity of Representatives of Scotland in Westminster then or at present from the Three estates of Scottish parliament since 1707.

      Taken under simplistic terms. I suggest

      What evidence is there that the Scots are in a treaty if they have not been asked to join?

      ,what evidence is there for the old Scottish parliament that has been closed for the last three hundred has participated in the treaty of the union?

      What evidence is there that the Scottish parliament cancelled itself out by agreeing to the treaty of the union as The Present UK parliament states on its site in 2022.?

      This conundrum where by the Scots have not been asked to join the treaty of the union,

      Where the Westminster parliament site states the old Scottish parliament was cancelled by them selves in 1707.

      Leaves a very big white elephant in the room for Westminster parliament,

      Whom exactly are they in a treaty of union with?
      If they hold no ties to Scots or Scotlands old parliament?

    43. Shaking My Head says:

      You know, the weird wee sexual minorities have had their revenge, thoroughly trashing a country they grew up in that used to be pretty homophobic, horribly so. They’ve trashed Scotland out of sneering spite and hatred and self-regard. And the presence of mentally unbalanced whiners like Ms. Blackman just shows how tragically run down and braindrained this country’s politics have become.

      Thanks, SNP. I hope it was worth destroying Scotland cos somebody called you a poof in fourth year, several decades ago.

    44. Rab Davis says:

      Breeks 2.26pm

      You mentioned SNP MPs coming back home over the border.

      You can just picture it, their 4x4s bulging at the seams with Harrods bags and other top London department stores goods for the family.

      Every one of them must wake up every morning thinking they’ve won the lottery.

      Money for old rope.

      Literally, money for nothing.

      And as for Cosy feet Pete,,, there’s grass growing under his seat at Westminster.

      Every SNP MP should be charged with theft, for stealing money under false pretences.

    45. Andrew Smith says:

      @Chas.

      You (rightly on many occasions) like to point out the nonsense posted by those you describe as the BPHB.

      However, your post above is just as absurd as anything I’ve read here.

      What few people seem to realise is, we already have a Labour majority in Scotland, it’s just going under a different name. I should know, I’ve been involved with both parties.

    46. James Che says:

      Forgot to add,

      Three hundred years compensation owed to Scots and Scotland, for minerals and oil extraction, for taxation of Scots, seafood, whisky, forestry,
      And land rental charges to name a few.

    47. Alf Baird says:

      James Che @ 4:50 pm

      “Forgot to add”

      Yes James, and we might also add here compensation for the evictions/clearances followed by organised transportation via Resettlement Acts etc to the colonies of some 4 million Scots. What was the cost (to Scotland and its people) of losing so many of oor ain fowk at the hand of the colonial power?

      In addition, the remaining population are still being gradually replaced by another dominant people/culture, perhaps now an accelerating process according to census records, in a last-ditch effort to prevent independence.

      Postcolonial theory refers to such procedures as ‘banishment of the natives’ and ‘plantation’, both common practice among imperial powers. Its no wonder the UN considers colonialism ‘a scourge’, a form of punishment.

    48. Breeks says:

      Republicofscotland says:
      3 November, 2022 at 4:25 pm

      As Craig Murray also points out, can we trust Sturgeon to do the right thing with the GE in mind, and to make sure winning the GE/Plebiscite will not just lead to achieving the right to hold an indyref…

      We should know this well ahead of the ballot.

      To be a plebiscite election requires the vote to be as binary / black and white as possible so there is no possible ambiguity about what the vote means.

      That means every pro-Independence candidate, whether SNP, ALBA, or anybody else, needs to be standing on a manifesto which states “a vote for me is a vote for Independence”. Nothing else.

      Any fuller or more expansive manifesto than that, and the referendum is compromised, because you can no longer be certain the vote is for Independence.

      “Logic” would suggest the most pragmatic approach would be for all pro Independence Candidates, SNP and ALBA, not to stand for their respective parties, but stand as YES Candidates on a binary manifesto, a vote for me is a vote for Independence.

      Unless all of that is agreed and set out in advance, and adhered to by all without any knives in the back, then we will know the promises about a Plebiscite Election are false.

      The SNP cannot go it alone. The vote needs to be binary, and simple for the electorate to grasp, and have no governmental manifesto commitments. There is no room for SNP / Green / ALBA voters to be conflicted by voting for the “enemy”. They must be able to vote for an anodyne YES candidate standing for Indy.

      Do we trust “Both Votes SNP” Sturgeon? Well trust her or not, we cannot accommodate a Both Votes SNP strategy. (I know, there aren’t list seats in Westminster Elections, but I mean the SNP sticking two fingers up to the rest of the Indy Movement and going for glory themselves.

      Frankly, I think we already have our answer, don’t we? Let’s not kid ourselves.

      The SNP are already lining up their General Election Candidates and Party Manifesto, and have a “leader” who will pledge to work constructively with a Tory PM, but won’t give ALBA, nor indeed SALVO the time of day.

      The SNP Prima Donas are already going it alone aren’t they? FK the YES Movement, vote to make sure the SNP get their snouts in the trough one more time…

      A Plebiscite Election won’t just happen. The legwork and structure to pull it off needs to be getting set out and agreed right now. For all we know, there could be a snap election, and we are not prepared by a mile.

      Get rid of Sturgeon, and there might be a chance. As long as she remains, I fear we may be dead in the water.

    49. stuart mctavish says:

      @Vivian O’Blivion

      Not just SNP, half of Alba too – hence possibility of reasonable excuse for abstentions on the yes side, and up to half of those on the no side..

      NB The blue haired lady voted aye, so no worries on that score (other than the who’s fooling who alluded to in article and your own intriguing follow up observation) .

    50. sarah says:

      @ Scott: have you emailed Sara Salyers with your bright idea about a Private Bill? sara@salvo.scot.

      I’m sure Kenny and Neale would be happy to oblige with A Bill. Mind you they would have to find a good many MPs to support it, wouldn’t they?

    51. Scott says:

      @Sarah

      A Private Bill gives the petitioners the ability to become the Parliament and make a change to a law that gives them or others special rights. Something which existed as a common law right in Scotland prior to enactment of Private Legislation Procedure (Scotland) Act 1899 [Codifying an existing right in this way seems at odds with the common law concept itself, especially given the existing unique and extraordinary power of the nobile officium of the Court of Session]

      A Private Member’s Bill is something different.

      http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Geo5and1Edw8/26/52/enacted

    52. Robert Louis says:

      It did all seem like one big show yesterday by the SNP, to make it seem to the weak of mind, that YES, the SNP are serious on independence. All far too busy on the Westminster gravy train. All talk, nae action.

      Meanwhile, in the real world, while the many, many SNP MP’s plan their exotic Christmas breaks, on their massive 85k salaries, for doing NOTHING, others in Scotland will wonder if it is heat or eat, or neither.

      And just to put MP’s salaries in perspective, with average single assumptions, their take home pay (after deductions) PER MONTH, is just shy of 5000 GBP, that’s 5K. Per Month!! No wonder they have all gotten so comfy down in London town. That’s before we talk of the free second home in London, the subsidised bar and meals, and free flights (with air miles), plus expenses (which are never really checked). What a cushy number.

      To put that in even better perspective, the Lottery offers a prize in one of its competitions of 10k per month for 30 years. These MP’s effectively get half of a lottery prize in pay (after deductions), every month.

      Most of them, would NEVER in their wildest dreams ever find employment anywhere in Scotland with that kind of pay, subsidies and conditions.

      The SNP. The do nothing party. The ‘we’re doing well for ourselves’, so why rock the boat with silly independence, party.

      For London’s gold they are bought and sold. A right parcel of SNP rogues. They need booted out of office, every single one.

    53. John Main says:

      @ Republicofscotland says:3 November, 2022 at 2:17 pm

      “So, the Scottish NHS is in such a mess that patient scans are being sent to Australia to be studied, at a cost of over half a million pounds to the Scottish taxpayer …

      Not only are the scans being sent to Australia, but they are also being sent out all over Europe to be checked.

      Sturgeon’s response was that the Scottish NHS is suffering a staff shortage and that Brexit has exacerbated it as many folk from abroad left as they felt they were not wanted.

      The real reason for the shortage is that Sturgeon FAILED miserably to get Scotland out of this union and to then reassure these folk that they are wanted and that they perform a vital task within the Scottish NHS.

      Exiting the union would’ve allowed the Scottish government to plan ahead knowing they had all the levers of government to do so, and all the financial clout required by a country to protect its NHS and its people in the process.

      Instead, Sturgeon decided to betray Scots, and this scandalous betrayal has had a terrible knock-on effect to our public services.”

      Let’s say you are right. How does your argument square with the arguments of other posters that Scots are being replaced by incomers in a process of colonisation?

      Are some immigrant replacements for Scots allowable, whilst others are not? How do we tell the difference?

      Does Scotland not already have the financial clout to improve the SNHS through its tax varying powers?

      Incidentally, if so many other countries have surplus capacity in their medical diagnostic processes, yet have no equivalent of the NHS/SNHS, is it worth considering that maybes our NHS/SNHS model is far from being the best when it comes to delivering healthcare?

    54. Robert Louis says:

      And I should have added, in my posting above at 551pm, that MP sallaries can go even higher for being on select committees, like, for example, with Pete Wishart. One big gravy train for the SNP MP’s, while Scotland starves.

    55. Scott says:

      I hear on the grapevine that there was a meeting of the ‘Brains Trust’ which started up in Fife and ended in up tears, which is nice.

    56. Pete Wishart says:

      Leaving the disgusting ALBA hate to the side for now.

      Here is my full speech from yesterday’s independence debate where I ask all parties to support 6 assertions about independence. I got some surprising and even encouraging results. I think you’ll like it.

      https://mobile.twitter.com/PeteWishart/status/1588070591420137472

    57. twathater says:

      ROS you keep referring to Craig saying if sturgeon does this or that we should still give her our vote , obviously with a pair of molegrips firmly affixed to our nose

      BUT the reality is that her lies are legendary and voluminous, hasn’t Craig been paying attention, how MANY promises has she shredded without any remorse or guilt , how many promises of referendums have we had , how many mandates have we given her , how many times have we been marched up that hill with hope and happiness only to find that the top is an illusion, a mirage created by a projector in the control of sturgeon who has just pulled the plug out the socket and we are back in darkness

      ASK YOURSELF SERIOUSLY can we trust this lying corrupt perverted deviant to deliver ANYTHING , this scummy bastard and her party are user’s , Alex Salmond asked people to rally round and give the Scottish Nonce Party their vote in an effort to CREATE a superindy majority at holyrood (I couldn’t do that) what does sturgeon do , she DELIBERATELY publicly insisted that snp members vote snp 1 and 2 fully aware that to do so enabled the unionists to capitalise on the division

      Again ask yourself is that the actions of someone whose word you can trust, is that the actions of one who is committed unreservedly to independence

      8 years ROS 8 YEARS and what do we have, FUCK ALL, this creature CANNOT BE TRUSTED, her promises are will o the wisp blown away in the wind, they have no substance

      I will not vote for these scum who denigrate and demean our people with their WANTON LIES AND PROMISES, the ONLY way forward is through SALVO Aligned with ALBA and ISP, I am 71 and will most probably never see an indy Scotland but hell will freeze before I give the scum my vote

    58. Julius Scaramonger says:

      It is a real life “Knightmare” with the SNP come true… yet Scotland cannot see fit to catch the Sturgeon kipper cold and put her out to sea permanently. Why is this? What are they afraid of and when exactly will Swinney by name and Swinney by nature make of his new set of sums creating money out of thin air…

      “Sturgeons are long-lived, late-maturing fishes with distinctive characteristics, such as a caudal fin similar to those of sharks, and an elongated, spindle-like body that is smooth-skinned, scaleless, and armored with five lateral rows of bony plates called scutes”

    59. Republicofscotland says:

      Breeks.

      The SNP will never work with Alba, Alba will take a bit of time to rise and they will, the Tories won’t call a snap GE election for their stock is incredibly low right now, though the Tories would call a snap GE and lose to Labour to thwart a win for Scotland on a plebiscitary GE through ill preparation, the Tories would prefer a spell out of power as long as it resulted in saving the union and holding onto the Scottish cash cow.

      On the plebiscitary GE, holding it would save us time on Alba rising enough to make a big dent if we won it, which I think we would. I think the end of 2024 is the maximum limit that the next GE must be held within so still a wee bit of time to prepare.

      That however isn’t the problem, the problem lies with Sturgeon, will she backtrack on her proposal to use the next GE as a plebiscite, going by her record on Scottish independence since she came to office one would have to say that she will find a way to squirm out of it, and if so barring her removal from office, which is unlikely, we’ll need to wait for the next Holyrood elections for Alba to make a some sort of impact, and maybe even longer, the following GE.

      Let’s say for arguments sake that Sturgeon does decide that she will use the next GE as a plebiscite, would it not be logical to vote in as many SNP MPs as possible so as not to divide the vote, especially in close ran constituencies, with a majority of indy minded MPs independence could then be declared.

      Now if Sturgeon decides that she won’t use the next GE as a plebiscite, we should concentrate on voting against SNP MP candidates and give our GE votes to the Alba party instead.

    60. Republicofscotland says:

      Twathater.

      Craig Murray is pushing an option that’s all, of course many folk don’t trust Sturgeon and rightly so I can’t stand the woman she’s sold Scotland out, we know how devious she is, however if there’s the possibility of a plebiscitary election being held that only requires a majority of independence MPs at Westminster why shouldn’t we go for it. A victory for yes negates an indyref which the UK would ultimately interfere with so much at stake.

      Yes Alba will rise but that will take time, possibly even longer than the 2026 Holyrood elections, this plebiscitary election if it happens and I’m by no means sure it will knowing what a lying shit Sturgeon is, it could save us years of waiting, in which Westminster will continue to undermine Scotland.

      If you have a better idea let’s hear it.

    61. John Main says:

      @ Robert Louis says:3 November, 2022 at 5:58 pm

      “One big gravy train for the SNP MP’s, while Scotland starves”

      Sorry, I was enjoying your posts right up until your hysterical final statement.

      Who’s starving, Bob?

      Incidentally, your comparison between MP’s salary and a lottery win is risible. Just for starters, no lottery winner has to work for the money.

      But I guess we all need to ask ourselves: if the job really is so easy, well paid and comfy, how come it’s only numpties that take it on? Why no lazy, smart people doing it?

      And of course, the biggie: Why no posters from Wings BTL stepping forwards to suck deep from the gravy train? It’s a piece of piss, isn’t it? Plus, you could get Indy sorted in moments.

      Something does not compute.

    62. Ebok says:

      Republicofscotland says:
      3 November, 2022 at 6:36 pm
      Twathater.
      ‘If you have a better idea let’s hear it’

      RoS, I admire your passion and agree with many of your views, but I’m with Twathater on this one.
      I could NEVER vote for NSPN. The tide will turn, it just needs speeded up.
      I don’t know what thoughts Twathater has, I’ve already given my preferred plan: unite, create an Independence campaign leadership structure, develop a plan of action, get out the soapboxes, and lead us in marches every weekend. Shake HR to its foundations, force them to listen.

      IF this scandalous attack on vast numbers already on or near the breadline doesn’t waken up the public and get them follow the example of yellow vests or Canadian truckers, then it won’t matter who we vote for or even if we vote at all. It will be over.

    63. Alf Baird says:

      Pete Wishart @ 6:07 pm

      “Here is my full speech from yesterday’s independence debate”

      You were on a roll Pete, until number 6. You end your 6th assertion by saying “Lets demonstrate to the Scottish people that we are not some form of hostage within the UK – we must have a referendum to settle this”

      Anybody with half a brain can see Scotland is treated as a colony and therefore ‘hostage’ is not far off the mark. The Scottish people have been waiting on you daeless nuSNP MP’s to settle up, not settle in as you have done.

      You have been given the power to end the union at three successive UK general elections now; Leon Brittan once said just two SNP majorities would be enough, whilst Major and Thatcher said one.

      But you prefer to continue to posture and take the Crown’s money instead. You are just as bad as the 1707 parcel o rogues who enslaved our nation. It is you and other SNP MPs who are holding Scotland hostage, naebody else.

    64. David Beveridge says:

      Folk can actually read Pete Wishart’s drivel? I thought he’d blocked all the pro-indy supporters. My money’s on him as the first SNP Vermin in Ermine.

    65. Hatuey says:

      I think it’s decreed somewhere that all political parties must aspire to unattainable goals; with Labour it’s socialism, the Tories a Laissez Faire economy, for the Liberals a world where middle class fuckwits are listened to, for the Greens a world where the age of consent for trees is 5, or something, and now the SNP is looking to slot right in with their unattainable goal, independence…

      It’s all just lazy virtue signaling at that level. The real primary objective for politicians is to keep their jobs and appeal to as wide a range of people as possible in the middle ground (so that they have a better chance of keeping their jobs).

      It’s straightforwardly disgusting and self-serving until you look at who they are letting define where the middle ground is — the rich with their tabloid newspapers and control of the mainstream media. That’s where this crap they call “democracy” becomes a lot more deeply depressing and sinister.

      But now things start to make a little more sense. Now you understand why a supposedly separatist political party is cheerleading for British saber-rattling in the world, bowing to The King, and sitting there in that den of thieves they call Westminster, wondering what free lunch the British State is putting on for them in the canteen, etc.

      Note to the Alba marketing team; come up with a new strapline that invites people to vote for you if they want to piss Sturgeon right off… Vote for us if you want to really bug Sturgeon… That’ll work. You’ll probably win a majority.

    66. Dan says:

      John Main say: at 7:33 pm

      Sorry, I was enjoying your posts right up until your hysterical final statement.

      Who’s starving, Bob?

      Maybe time you got out more and helped some of the more vulnerable in Scottish society you utterly blinkered selfish wanker.

      I’ve been busy lately picking up the pieces and helping folk that you clearly think don’t exist. Ya ken, jist a person that tried to do away with themselves due to the pressures created by the failings of the State to govern competently and responsibly for all that live here.
      Presume you donate to foodbanks that are often the thing that stop people from starving. And do you understand that malnutrition can be severally damaging to long term health and well-being outcomes, and the resultant effects of that can burden the already struggling health services.
      There’s plenty to do. EG. Out here in the rural sticks I have to take folk to various appointments because there are no suitable local bus services anymore. Most rural doctors’ surgeries have a pool of drivers to help get folk to various appointments, so they’d no doubt be appreciative to have a volunteer offer to assist.

    67. Derek says:

      “Alf Baird says:
      3 November, 2022 at 5:08 pm

      Postcolonial theory refers to such procedures as ‘banishment of the natives’ and ‘plantation’, both common practice among imperial powers. Its no wonder the UN considers colonialism ‘a scourge’, a form of punishment.”

      There was an interesting programme on Radio 4 this morning about colonial shenanigans in Jamaica.

    68. Republicofscotland says:

      Ebok.

      Fair enough, my thought was to use Sturgeon’s claim of holding a plebiscitary GE against her, and if she fails to do so that the scales would fall from the eyes of many folk who still believed that she would deliver independence.

      Another benefit of a plebiscitary GE is that it cuts out an indyref which would be open to abuse, and as conflicting as it may seem (let Sturgeon near a plebiscite GE) I don’t want Sturgeon anywhere near an indyref.

      Another benefit of a plebiscitary GE before 2025, is that it if yes wins it shortens the time that Westminster has to tamper in Scottish affairs to weaken the country, and continue to steal its resources.

      Let’s face it, if we’re being honest Alba won’t be ready by the next Holyrood elections, its more than likely the SNP will have a majority of MSPs, and along with the Greens hold a majority in the chamber again, so why let this opportunity (if it arises) pass us by.

    69. Andy Ellis says:

      On the plebiscitary election thing, Alex Salmond made the (not unreasonable) point at the Wee Alba Book event in Edinburgh a few months ago that it would be preferable for it to be on the basis of an agreed “Yes slate” representing the movement as a whole, not parties and on a single issue, i.e. a majority voting for those parties equalled independence.

      It’s a fine ideal, but I honestly don’t see the SNP and Greens burying the hatchet with Alba, do you? Unless it’s squarely in our backs of course….! They won’t co-operate with other parties, or cut deals or agree a joint slate. The SNP essentially regards itself as “the movement”.

      So assuming we actually get to a plebiscitary election, it’s madness to concentrate on seat numbers, not total numbers of votes for pro-indy parties. Lots of pro-indy folk aren’t going to vote SNP or Green under any circumstances: they just can’t bring themselves to do it, whether due to their inaction, neo liberalism, TRA obsession and misogyny or whatever.

      Plebiscitary elections at Westminster are a thankless task: it’s Holyrood we should be pushing for. It’s a more favourable franchise, it’s “our parliament” and we can exert more control, not least by “arranging” for when we want. The $64,000 question of course is why the SNP haven’t already made it abundantly clear they’ll precipitate early elections if the SC finds against them? Not doing so clearly “outs” them as a devolutionary force, not a truly pro-independence one.

      Alba may not be in a position to take many seats in the short term, but with enough votes, it could still play a role in delivering a pro-independence majority. Anyone who thinks there’s a cunning plan leading to indy faster than plebiscitary elections is kidding themselves.

      Hatred of the current SNP is understandable but given their current position, we can’t wish them away. If we want to do to them what Sinn Fein did to the IPP a century ago, we can’t assume it’s going to happen in a short to medium timescale: if people want to explain the process of how it all happens faster using alternative means, we’re all ears.

    70. Scott says:

      “Anyone who thinks there’s a cunning plan leading to indy faster than plebiscitary elections is kidding themselves.” – Agent Ellis

      Referendum?

      UDI by Parliament endorsed by Court of Session? (With or without plebiscitary election)

      Petition?

      Private Bill?

      Negotiation?

      There’s nothing cunning about lawful options, apart in the minds of the blinkered.

    71. Andy Ellis says:

      IF this scandalous attack on vast numbers already on or near the breadline doesn’t waken up the public and get them follow the example of yellow vests or Canadian truckers, then it won’t matter who we vote for or even if we vote at all. It will be over.

      The yellow vests and Canadian truckers failed. There seem to be quite a few Cassandras in here either predicting a sea change in our politics, or La Diada style expressions of rage leading to a rapid overthrow of the status quo. Alternatively they seem despondent and predict we’re all doomed because nothing will be achieved.

      I don’t see either things happening.

    72. John Main says:

      @ Dan says:3 November, 2022 at 8:10 pm

      Sorry to see you’ve joined the ranks of the name callers, Dan. You used to come across as reasonable on here.

      Here’s a list of countries that can be realistically described as starving:

      Afghanistan
      Ethiopia
      Nigeria
      Somalia
      South Sudan
      Yemen

      Bob wrote above:

      “One big gravy train for the SNP MP’s, while Scotland starves.”

      Scotland isn’t starving.

      But by all means you continue to maintain that it is, if you think this kind of hysterical exaggeration helps advance Indy.

      My view that it makes people laugh and point at the nutters may well be wrong after all.

    73. John Main says:

      @ Hatuey says:3 November, 2022 at 7:57 pm

      52 days until Xmas. Maybes jog Xi’s memory?

    74. Scott says:

      La Diada style expressions of rage – Wendy Ellis

      La Diada is the national day of Catalonia, a celebration not a riot.

      No surprise that you use it out of context, Mx Blowhard

      St Andrew’s Day might be a bit cold for newly independent Scotland’s national day – but if you were willing to share the heat from all the birthday cake candles, folk might turn up…

    75. Andy Ellis says:

      Referendum? Not going to happen in any reasonable timescale.

      UDI by Parliament endorsed by Court of Session? (With or without plebiscitary election) Won’t be recognised. We’ll be Northern Cyprus without the sun, and with no equivalent of Turkey backing us up.

      Petition? all the LOLZ. Yeah, that’ll definitely work. Indy via petition. Jeezus wept.

      Private Bill? Unicorns, fairy tales, rainbows.

      Negotiation? That happens after we win a majority in a plebiscitary election. Sorted.

      There’s nothing cunning about lawful options, apart in the minds of the blinkered. We’ve seen the quality of your mind. Building castles in Spain based on your woo-woo reading of stuff you clearly don’t understand doesn’t mean other folk are blinkered “Scott”, it just means they’re not as delusional as you.

    76. Scott says:

      Ellis, Scotland leaving the union is a fucking divorce, not a resignation.

      Piss off back to Cornhill.

    77. Ebok says:

      Republicofscotland

      I hear you. It’s just that I could never trust this bunch of degenerates. You are of course right in saying that Alba won’t make an impact in the GE – we can only hope to have managed to get our message across by 2026.

      Even then, and I suspect Alex Salmond fears this, if SNP crumbles, then so might the desire for Independence – one bitten, twice shy? There is no other reason I can think of to explain the disappearance of 100,000 pro indy members of SNP.

      Without a handle on the levers of power, and as things stand, we don’t have a single member elected under the Alba banner in any of three electoral systems, then nothing can change unless people power becomes overwhelming.

      That can happen in the blink of an eye, rather than waiting four years and hoping.
      But as shown by an increasing number of disturbing links on this site, the unionists are gradually chipping away at the base of the YES movement and slowly but surely containing the earlier energy and impetus of the movement.

      We may now be a long way from the 2014/2015 levels of camaraderie that got us 56/59 MPs. But I think back to when AS was told that Scotland wasn’t oppressed enough to vote for Independence, and I look at what is happening now, I say – if our people stand for this ruthless subjugation, don’t organise, don’t unite, and don’t fight back, – then after four more years of draconian legislation we may not get another opportunity.

    78. Hatuey says:

      I’m taking bets, JM… free money for you.

      With regards to that bet, if we are embroiled in some sort of World War by then, which we can’t rule out as a possibility, it still stands… you can’t say “ah, it doesn’t count coz a world war started…”

      It looks like Blinken and I are on the same page at least: “as Secretary of State Antony Blinken noted in an interview last week, a Chinese attack against Taiwan is on a “much faster timeline” than had been thought…”

      According to The Daily Sabah, though, the Germans have changed their position on Vlad and the war, emphasising “common ground”, just as I predicted they would when they found out who blew up the pipeline.

    79. Dan says:

      John Main says: at 9:04 pm

      Sorry to see you’ve joined the ranks of the name callers, Dan. You used to come across as reasonable on here.

      Well I’m proud to have joined your ever growing list of folk you can find fault with on the flimsiest of grounds, rather than acknowledging the efforts they put in to make this country a better place for those that live here.
      You can try to sneakily hide your cold lack of compassion behind assertions or statistics about which countries can “realistically be described as starving”, but that begs the question, just how many folk starving or enduring malnutrition (which is to me just starving without actually dying), is acceptable to you? For me that number will be none, and particularly in a country like ours with such an abundance of resources and fertile ground.

      That’s the temperature dropping now over past couple of days so this will be the start of winter with the energy price hike pressures kicking in harder, along with the other inflationary aspects of interest rate and food price rises, so household and business economics will be getting evermore more stretched now.
      I’ve got mates that are now beginning to stress and lose sleep over their abilities to keep their businesses up and running as all this unfolds.

    80. sarah says:

      @ Liz and Alf Baird: I don’t think this btl Pete Wishart is the Pete Wishart MP. The btl writing just doesn’t sound like the MP’s style.

    81. Andy Ellis says:

      @John Main 9.07 pm

      52 days until Xmas. Maybes jog Xi’s memory?

      Amazing isn’t it…? All that money our American friends (not to mention the Taiwanese and Japanese) spend on intelligence gathering, the satellite observations, the folk in China who might notice the preparations, but Hatuey just feels it in his water that it’s all going to kick off in the next 50 days.

      Sadly the water is pish. 🙂

    82. Dan says:

      @ sarah

      Lol at the writing style isn’t akin to an MP. The btl posts here have been the same as what he tweets. The latest upthread in this tweet. Doesn’t prove it’s him of course.

      https://twitter.com/PeteWishart/status/1588070591420137472

    83. Andy Ellis says:

      According to The Daily Sabah, though, the Germans have changed their position on Vlad and the war, emphasising “common ground”, just as I predicted they would when they found out who blew up the pipeline.

      But wait….aren’t we supposed to spurn the MSM?

      The Daily Sabah is a creature of Erdogan’s AKP.

      Moonhowlers gonna howl I suppose?

    84. John Main says:

      @ Hatuey says:3 November, 2022 at 9:35 pm

      “if we are embroiled in some sort of World War by then”

      Jeezo, Hats, don’t you read BTL on here.

      Attacking the Black Sea fleet. Boots on the ground in 404. We’ve been embroiled in WW3 for months now.

      But don’t you worry none. China invades Taiwan by Xmas and I will be first on here to congratulate you. I imagine you being right about something will make it a special and memorable day.

      Unless we are all vapourised. That might dampen the celebrations.

    85. sarah says:

      @ Dan at 9.53: I just thought the btl comments didn’t sound quite as “unhinged” as PW MP quite often does!

      The other odd thing is we’ve never had an MP, or even MSP, deign to comment btl on Wings before – except perhaps Doug Chapman? So why would PW bother – is he trying to make friends and influence people? If so, he’s going the wrong way about it.

    86. sarah says:

      @ Scott: thanks for the link to the Private Legislation Procedure.

      However I am not much the wiser having speed read it – it sounds as if it refers to things like the Railway Acts for people who want to get a railway built, or the Crofting Inquiry.

      We need to know what 1.[1] is referring to where it says “persons…in regard to any matter…for which they would have been entitled to apply.. to Parliament for leave to bring in a Private Bill..”

      I imagine that Sara Salyers is swamped with work at the moment so if you are seriously putting forward this proposal to Salvo, it would be helpful if you could make it as clear as possible. 🙂

    87. John Main says:

      @ Dan says:3 November, 2022 at 9:40 pm

      “For me that number will be none, and particularly in a country like ours with such an abundance of resources and fertile ground”

      I commend your commitment to a zero hunger target in Scotland. If you have a plan to get there, let’s hear it.

      I personally think it is as practical as a zero covid target, or a zero smoking target, or a zero homelessness target. But fair play to those who are prepared to work towards these goals.

      If you want to make it a general rule that nobody can post on here without first stating how many hungry Scots they are prepared to tolerate, go ahead with that too.

      Maybes some posters will lie about it.

      But, as per usual, my initial point goes ignored as the strawmen are marshalled and sent into the fray:

      Bob says “One big gravy train for the SNP MP’s, while Scotland starves.”

      I say Scotland isn’t starving.

    88. Scott says:

      @Sarah

      A Private Bill gives the petitioners the ability to become the Parliament and make a change to a law that gives them or others special rights. It can be opposed but as always in Scots law, each case turns on its own merits in the name of natural equitable justice.

      Watch this space…Private investigations and all that.

    89. sarah says:

      @ Scott: I will watch this space very closely! 🙂 🙂

    90. Scott says:

      John Main says:
      3 November, 2022 at 10:17 pm

      Bob says “One big gravy train for the SNP MP’s, while Scotland starves.”

      I say Scotland isn’t starving.

      In January 2020, we’ve released further food parcel distribution data from 91 independent food banks operating across 20 Scottish local authorities finding that 278,258 emergency food parcels had been given out between April 2018 and September 2019. Combined with The Trussell Trust’s figure of 318,214 for this time period, the total number of emergency food parcels distributed amounts to 596,472.

      Researchers for The Trussell Trust’s State of Hunger report used our data collated in Scotland to extrapolate that approximately 3 million emergency food parcels were distributed by both independent and Trussell Trust food banks across the UK between April 2018 and March 2019. The Heriot Watt University team also used our Scottish data to find that 2% of UK households used a food bank between April 2018 and March 2019 while 10% of UK household lived with marginal and severe food insecurity

      http://www.foodaidnetwork.org.uk/scotland-food-bank-data

      In 1 year (2018-19) in Scotland, circa 600000 ration packs were needed by the hungry across 20 of Scotland’s 32 Local Authority areas.

      That’s about 1600 every single day.

      Fuck off Main, seriously.

    91. Willie says:

      Bad, bad, bad, evil beyond belief today in Craig Miller.

      Wonder what will be said tomorrow, and or if any of the details will emerge, or if the lid will be kept on something so evil that only God can comprehend.

      We live in a truly evil world.

    92. Hatuey says:

      lol @ the tormented nut who describes The Daily Sabah as mainstream…

      It’s circulation is under 10k, mostly pensioners in Istanbul who just want to read stories about Ataturk.

      If I wanted to rile, I’d tell you what the Russian MSM is saying right now.

      BTW, nobody is spurning the MSM in the sense suggested, Ellis. Stop attacking the messenger when you want to distract from the message.

    93. James Gardner says:

      I for one will be boycotting the FIFA World Cup in Qatar, end of !

    94. John Main says:

      @Scott says:3 November, 2022 at 10:39 pm

      Good post, Scott. Just shows that you can do sane, factual stuff when you try.

      The figures are old and pre-Covid, so things will be worse now.

      “In 1 year (2018-19) in Scotland, circa 600000 ration packs were needed by the hungry across 20 of Scotland’s 32 Local Authority areas.

      That’s about 1600 every single day.”

      What’s the figure today likely to be, 5000 maybes? Let’s say so for now.

      Bob could have written something like:

      “One big gravy train for the SNP MP’s, while in Scotland, 5000 food parcels are distributed daily to people going hungry”

      A scathing indictment of SNP incompetence which has the additional merit of being true. A fact that can lodge in people’s memories, and can be repeated and passed on in face-to-face encounters. Like in the queue for the chipper.

      Instead, we got “Scotland starves”.

      Try that one on in the queue for the chipper and prepare for laughs.

      Anyways, I will try to continue to keep things real on here, in the belief that the truth can indeed set us free. You continue with your hysterical and usually inchoate over reactions if you think the route to Indy lies through that.

    95. John Main says:

      @ Hats says:3 November, 2022 at 11:38 pm

      “If I wanted to rile, I’d tell you what the Russian MSM is saying right now”

      Interesting choice of language, Hats. I think a rational, grounded Scot would have written:

      “If I wanted to amuse, I’d tell you what the Russian MSM is saying right now”

      Given what we know about Vlad and the unlucky habit of those who contradict or work against his narrative to wake up dead. Say what you like about our own MSM, it’s possible to work in it and still get affordable life insurance.

      Meantime, over in the East China Sea, they’re waking to a new day and marking up the calendar accordingly.

      Tick tock.

    96. Rab Davis says:

      Main/Ellis

      You are an English Wanker,,,

      Fuck off!!!

    97. Andy Ellis says:

      @John Main 6.40 am

      Meantime, over in the East China Sea, they’re waking to a new day and marking up the calendar accordingly.

      T-Day minus 51!

      Doubtless Xi and his nice bunch of lads should be showing some signs of getting “stuff” ready now?

      Doubtless Hatuey will be able to point to all the things that are happening to ensure that this vast armada can cross the 110 miles in the teeth of Taiwanese and American resistance?

      Doubtless in 52 days Hatuey will be nowhere to be seen huh….? 🙂

    98. Republicofscotland says:

      “Here’s a list of countries that can be realistically described as starving:

      Afghanistan
      Ethiopia
      Nigeria
      Somalia
      South Sudan
      Yemen”

      Every one of those countries have fallen under the eye of the Great Satan (US) some via its sponsored proxy warlords, and its minions, and are worse off for it.

    99. Republicofscotland says:

      “UDI by Parliament endorsed by Court of Session? (With or without plebiscitary election) Won’t be recognised. We’ll be Northern Cyprus without the sun, and with no equivalent of Turkey backing us up.”

      This laughable, Scotland isn’t a region of England it’s a country in its own right, one of the oldest in Europe I might add, we’d be returning to our status prior to the union.

      As if you know which countries would object and which would not.

      Now here’s something that the majority of UN countries did object to.

      https://www.globalresearch.ca/un-votes-152-5-telling-israel-get-rid-nuclear-weapons/5798026

    100. Republicofscotland says:

      “Amazing isn’t it…? All that money our American friends (not to mention the Taiwanese and Japanese) spend on intelligence gathering, the satellite observations,”

      Yet they didn’t see their Delta Command board being hacked.

      https://twitter.com/AZgeopolitics/status/1587355651537309697

    101. Andy Ellis says:

      @RoS

      This laughable, Scotland isn’t a region of England it’s a country in its own right, one of the oldest in Europe I might add, we’d be returning to our status prior to the union.

      It’s cold hard fact. Nobody will recognise an independent Scotland without a clear majority voting in favour in response to either a clear question in a referendum, or a platform of independence in a plebiscitary elections. Scotland – like Catalonia and Quebec – is not seen as qualifying for “special treatment”, it’s not accepted as a colony, or the subject of violence or ethnic cleansing necessitating immediate UDI.

      No amount of frantic pin-head dancing by the credulous will change the facts. If we want independence in the short to medium term, the only realistic path is via a referendum or plebiscitary elections. The latter could be called in weeks if there was an appetite for it.

      The fact Scots aren’t on the streets demanding immediate plebiscitary elections as the only feasible immediate solution, despite our current pretty dire situation, gives the lie to the bloviators in here banging on about “change is absolutely gonna come in XX days/months”: it’s just desperate unicorns and rainbows stuff.

      There is no cunning plan, no extra parliamentary legal rabbit to be pulled out of Salvo’s hat, that commands majority support or will substitute for actually doing the work and making the case.

    102. Dorothy Devine says:

      Willie, what happened in Criagmillar that has upset you so?

    103. Robert Hughes says:

      ( not really ) O/T

      Recently leaked internal memos relating to the Canadian truckers protests state the protests were peaceful , respectful and sought to minimise public inconvenience – this was known to the Canadian Gov at the time .

      Despite which , utter fanny and uber-* woke * WEF Best Boy , Schwab’s philosophical catamite , Trudeau , had no hesitation in unleashing the usual imbecilic arsenal of Prog Newspeak invective ; these peaceful workers expressing their human right to object were , quote …..” anti-Semitic ” ” anti-Black racists ” ” homophobic ” and – drum roll …….” transphobic ” and he had the unbelievable hypocrisy to end that tirade with the words ….” Together , let’s keep working to make Canada more inclusive ” !! Hahahahahaha .

      Where are all the clowns like him now – the ones that were never off TV screens telling us how we were all going to die unless we followed their insane , health and wealth destroying * measures * to the letter : where are they now when excess mortality figures are at all-time highs .

      Where are Sturgeon , Leach et al , where is the MSM that rammed the message down the public throat ? Where are the medical profession , who , at the very least should be looking into what’s causing this excess excess mortality phenomenon ? Nowhere to be fckn seen .

      This is ” not really ” O/T for the reason that dafty Blackman and the entire Sturgeon Gov are exactly on-message with these Nu * Progressive * brats – Trudeau , Ardern , Macron et al ; this is the model of governance they seek to emulate .

      Governance entirely by Virtue Signal ; immune to criticism because of – supposed/assumed – moral superiority , Globalist in nature and intention , ruthless in the imposition of their warped , Biology and Reason denying worldview and underwritten by the ghouls of unfettered , predatory Capitalism .

      We seriously need to ask – given all this – what Independence actually means . Would a nominally Independent Scotland have adequate protection against the crushing pressure of Globalist forces ?

      This is NOT an argument against Independence ; on the contrary , a fortified , unified nation State – like Scotland COULD be , offers the only realistic defence against Trans-National geopolitical * interests *

      I’m convinced Independence will never happen under this mockery of SCOTTISH NATIONAL Party : talk of giving them yet one more opportunity to fuck us over for another 5 years come the next UKGE beggars belief . Under NO circumstances should we vote for them as long as Sturgeon + entourage are in place . If others want to keep crashing in the same car , that’s up to them

      They’ll never get another vote from me , my family and many of my friends .

    104. Willie says:

      Dorothy, the lid is being kept on the incident. But the detail emerging is so shocking, so brutal, so evil and wicked, as to defy belief. Human beings know no end of depravity, no end of evil.

      Police and forensics may see a lot of awful sights. But this, I suspect, will have shocked even the most battle hardened, and it is at incidents like this we owe these public servants a debt of gratitude.

      A man is reported to be appearing in court this morning with another in custody.

    105. Dan says:

      Well t’was cold here last night and just spent 20 mins *de-icing the car so I cant get someone to the doctors and chemist, which are in different towns…
      *That’s 20mins de-icing once I could actually get into the car as the modern crappy plastic door handles were all frozen solid to the doors and would break if pulled hard.
      The old skool tip is to piss on then to defrost them with the heat from yer wee, but as there was a neighbour milling about thought I’d better not…

      Back indoors for a quick cuppa and a warm up whilst having a read of this… Grrr

      http://robinmcalpine.org/this-dont-care-bill-must-be-stopped/

    106. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Public Audit Committee hearing into ferries starts at 10am. Sturgeon due to appear.

      https://www.scottishparliament.tv/meeting/public-audit-committee-november-4-2022

      ‘2. New vessels for the Clyde and Hebrides: Arrangements to deliver vessels 801 and 802: The Committee will take evidence on the section 23 report from—
      Rt Hon. Nicola Sturgeon, First Minister, Scottish Government.’

      Get your blinkometers charged up.

      😉 😉 😉

    107. stuart mctavish says:

      @James Gardener

      According to bbc teams from all the wokey cokey countries will be on their knees clutching their armbands for the 37 fatalities among labourers (3 of which being work related) from 2014 to 2020..

      Since such an appalling pose might have come straight from pages of trainspotting, question arises as to how that compares across the board (and especially in those countries hoping to signal virtue with the gesture)* with records kept since the 2020s seasonal flu season.

      * eg When I was still allowed to earn a living a relatively short stint in Qatar left me with impression that, notwithstanding the need for an actual passport to get into a pub, the Qatari administration was keen to treat its workforce as well as, if not far better, than most other countries I’d hitherto had the pleasure to stay in – so be most instructive to learn at the most basic level how much, if any, of that attitude was able to survive the selfharming covidmungering of past couple of years.

    108. Helen Yates says:

      They also agreed to keep the vote below 40 which would have made the vote binding and in return the unionists wouldn’t vote, result 39-0 in support.

    109. Hatuey says:

      Once we achieve or declare independence, we can confirm it with a referendum conducted on our own terms — without the BBC, British MSM, and our loving neighbours sticking their noses in. It’s important to get the order right, especially when your neighbour has a record of maliciousnesses and meddling.

      Speaking of such things, when will one of the geniuses explain how he can enthusiastically support British maliciousness and meddling in other countries whilst claiming at the same time to support Scottish independence?

      Cheerleaders usually only support one of the teams on the pitch.

    110. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Richard Leonard is the convenor for this inquiry.

      Questioning of FM underway now.

      https://www.scottishparliament.tv/meeting/public-audit-committee-november-4-2022

    111. Hatuey says:

      Ellis has been a babbling wreck since his party voted against joining NATO. I know how much NATO means to him and advised him to resign, but he wouldn’t listen.

      Interesting things happen to the human psyche when people are driven to do things that they don’t believe in.

    112. Andy Ellis says:

      @Hatuey 10.31 am

      Why would I consider resigning over Alba’s decision to oppose NATO membership, still less be a babbling wreck over it? I think it was the wrong decision on balance, but since the decision will be for a post independence Scottish government to make, or even perhaps a popular referendum, I don’t see it as that central to my membership. The majority in the party may disagree with me, but I don’t think any reasonable person thinks all parties insist on people agreeing about everything. Well….perhaps the SNP and Greens on things like TWAW, but I’d say Alba isn’t quite as controlling as the SNP or Greens.

      I’m on record as saying I’d prefer a non NATO alternative defence and security organisation including our Scandinavian neighbours, but I’m not going to die in a ditch about a future Scotland going it alone like Ireland, or deciding to join NATO like Sweden and Finland are about to do. I happen to believe our defence and security interests post indy would be best served within NATO, which however much you and other folk on the fringe disagree is still likely to be the majority view, particularly post Vlad’s invasion of 404.

      Few free to show me any evidence the majority are pining for splendid isolation or neutrality though. About as likely as you winning your bet about Xi’s T-Day invasion in 51 days time I realise, but you and your moonhowling mockers don’t really “do” evidence, huh?

    113. Hatuey says:

      She always wears red when she’s up against it. Tiger Woods does that too but he has lips.

    114. Hatuey says:

      Andy, you’re babbling again. If I was you, I’d avoid the subject of NATO. It just makes you look conflicted when you go on about it like that.

      Have a nice day.

    115. Andy Ellis says:

      It just makes you look conflicted when you go on about it like that.

      Are you going to be conflicted in 52 days…..? 🙂

    116. Breeks says:

      Just tuned in to witness Sturgeon says the Ferry Company was given a job to do, and that job hasn’t been done…

      Didn’t even blush saying it.

    117. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Breeks (11.49) –

      I watched most of it.

      Shameless.

    118. Breeks says:

      Must be a protocol in these inquiries that deviating from the question actually asked is quite permissible.

      Sturgeon seems incapable of giving a concise answer to anything, but the circus just rolls along regardless. It’s like the questioners are reading from a script, don’t know what it is they’re asking, and aren’t adequately on top of their brief to properly interrogate evasion or disinformation spontaneously.

      Where do we find people of such low calibre?

      That said, nowadays waffle is everywhere, and it’s pressing for the actual truth which is considered rude and anti-social. Consequently there is no accountability.

    119. Dan says:

      Re. Ferries, in March 2022 FM said “the buck stops with me“.

      (2 min vid but starting it at 1:35)

      youtu.be/LQjYWoVBX2k?t=95

    120. Dan says:

      Hmm, copying the link defo added that . which stops link working. Will remove the . and see if that works. Prepares for hammmers…

      youtube/LQjYWoVBX2k?t=95

    121. Dan says:

      Ach sod it. Here’s the whole 2 min vid…

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQjYWoVBX2k

    122. Confused says:

      Don’t be a tease Willie, spill the details (assuming there is not an injunction in place)

      Bear in mind the bar for “evil and depravity” is set depressingly high these days as a swift look at the tabloids will tell you.

    123. James says:

      Ellis/Main back on overtime I see.

      Dan – well done to you for your selfless efforts, and I agree “Main” is a selfish (Tory/brexiteer; quacks like a duck) wanker.

    124. Ebok says:

      @Breeks

      Didn’t Craig Hoy have her on toast?

      A fair bit of squirming over the failure to take minutes, veiled(?) accusations of corruption.
      Similarities to the ‘fabiani’ re unproduced documents etc. Pity he wasn’t on that one.

    125. Ebok says:

      @ Breeks

      Didn’t Craig Hoy have her on toast?
      There was a fair bit of squirming over her failure to take minutes of key meetings and veiled(?) accusations of irregular practices.

      Numerous similarities to the ‘fabiani’ re failure to produced documents etc. Pity he wasn’t on that one.

    126. Ebok says:

      @ Breeks

      Didn’t Craig Hoy have her on toast?
      There was a fair bit of squirming over her failure to take minutes of key meetings and veiled(?) accusations of irregular practices.

      Numerous similarities to the ‘fabiani’ re failure to produced documents etc. Pity he wasn’t on that one.

    127. Ebok says:

      Hoy begins questions at 10.52 and 45sec.

    128. Breeks says:

      Ebok says:
      4 November, 2022 at 2:05 pm

      @ Breeks

      Didn’t Craig Hoy have her on toast?

      Might have Ebok… been working. Just caught snippets on a tea break.

    129. Wee Crabbit Bas says:

      Maybe she’s a fan of ‘The Warmest Colour Is Blue’. She’s aff her heid though, regardless of colour.

    130. Geri says:

      Scott & Sarah
      Re Private bill

      Apologies if I’m off down a different path here but I could’ve sworn I read an indy blogger a few yrs ago claim this procedure could result in the SoS appointing a Yoon FM? A coalition can be formed & be rubber stamped by him & the presiding officer?

      If rumours on SM are true Sturgeon will be gone when the 2nd stage of self-ID fails. She’s already lost her party with 9 MSPs who didn’t give a shit if they were sacked & rumours of more to follow next time with the possibility Kate Forbes enters the fray.

      Re Blackman
      She’s a troll who deliberately baits Joanna Cherry on twitter to instigate a pile-on by her & her posse of SNP misfits & weirdos. Any other MP would be sacked immediately for openly bullying & harassing a work colleague online – yet she repeatedly gets away with it. She’s used her mental illness a few times as a get out of jail card to excuse her vile behaviour when her pile-on backfires on her & she’s fkd with the wrong twitter account for a spot of bullying LOL



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