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Wings Over Scotland

The Unofficial Idiot World Championships

Posted on October 08, 2018 by

Alert readers will be aware that while the absolutely mind-numbing empirical stupidity of Scotland’s latest batch of Unionist MPs and MSPs is a recurring theme on Wings, we’ve never attempted to place it on any sort of formal footing. And to be honest, that sort of laziness on our part is no longer sustainable.

Because folks, look at the pure state of this:

Ladies and gentlemen, we give you the inaugural Thickest Politician In Scotland.

Because yes, that really is walking brain vacuum Annie Wells honking for the whole world to see that democratically-elected politicians taking part in a democratic vote in a democratic Parliament proves that they don’t believe in democracy.

On its own even such a stunning display of slackjawed dimwittery might not have been enough to secure the title ahead of the other leading contender, but when you consider that Wells sits in the Scottish Parliament despite having been more emphatically rejected in a democratic vote than any other MSP in Scotland – trousering her £62,000 salary on the back of just 2,062 Xs at the ballot box – it’s a combination of sheer raw density and Olympic-scale lack of self-awareness fit to win any prize.

Reasonable people might feel that someone with a strong belief in democracy would have said “You know what? The voters told me comprehensively and unambiguously to get stuffed at the ballot box, so I’m not going to sneak into Parliament by the back door and then lecture other people about being undemocratic”, but that would require orders of magnitude more consistency and dignity than Wells could count up to, let alone demonstrate.

(She also, we should recall, doesn’t even accept the Scottish Parliament’s sovereignty.)

We’re pretty sure this title is going to change hands on a regular basis, but we’re confident that Annie Wells will always be there or thereabouts in the rankings. For now, though, readers, salute the Emperor.

She’s pretty close to getting the hang of pavements now.

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    1. 08 10 18 12:56

      The Unofficial Idiot World Championships | speymouth

    90 to “The Unofficial Idiot World Championships”

    1. Paul Miller says:

      All the while attempting to reject the Scottish Parliaments will for a second independence referendum!

    2. bobajock says:

      Dear god Rev – unblick me on twitter – I’m struggling without your love.

      On a side note, given the list systems ‘abusabilities’ nature, have there been any proposals for a fix … perhaps a ‘2 list terms and you are out’ …

    3. Jim Arnott says:

      This has been a long time coming Stuart – but well worth the wait. I know there’s stupid, more stupid and most stupid but couldn’t comprehend just how stupid Annie Wells could be.

    4. James Mills says:

      I must disagree , Rev, when you claim that the title will change hands frequently . Annie Wells is a true champion in her field and will be going all out to hold on to her No.1 spot .

    5. winifred mccartney says:

      What a character – didn’t she say that she only joined the Conservatives because she ‘fancied’ Ruth Davidson. Self-servative then just like the rest of them.

    6. Ken500 says:

      There are no words but swear words. What a complete and utter waste space dragged in off the street to thwart Democracy in Scotland. The electoral system ruined by opportunist unionist parties to thwart Democracy in Scotland in order to illegally line their pockets. An insult to Democracy. Third rate rejects. An embarrassing affront.

    7. Street Andrew says:

      Aye, Well you could have a look at Kirstene Hair if you want to put Annie Wells into perspective.

      On record as not knowing which way to vote in the EU referendum, because she couldn’t make her mind up. (?)

      She’s kind of pretty if you like that sort of thing, so maybe a dum-blonde award would be appropriate.

      A vacuous-eye-candy award.

    8. Frank Gillougley says:

      Of course this is not news but yes, as usual the Tory retort on the news last night or this morning to one definite and one potential upcoming referendum in Scotland was that – ‘it just goes to show that the SNP are wanting a ‘forever, or never-ending referendum” (apols. I can’t remember their inane soundbite so am paraphrasing).

      And I thought; And? Do they not do democracy? and we pay them £62,000!!! for this??? GGGGRRRRRRRR. d’Hondt just has to go. There has to be a better way.

    9. iain says:

      She’s a first among equals perhaps?

    10. Tinto Chiel says:

      What a maroon!

      And she was the one who said she didn’t recognise the Scottish parliament, despite drawing a massive salary (and expenses, no doubt) while she sits in it as the Most Rejected Member.

      You’re enjoying yourself with this one aren’t you, Rev?

    11. Dr Jim says:

      Aren’t they making it law that NOT voting Tory is undemocratic and unpatriotic though GOD SAVE THE QUEEN

    12. Muscleguy says:

      Our American cousins have a saying: The stupid, it burns! and I feel that is appropriate wrt Ms Wells, MSP (Listing).

      The Americans have a reason to have a fine understanding of levels of stupid considering the very wide disparities in their education systems. But it would seem that thanks to political patronage we will have to develop the same here in Scotland. I hesitate to speculate how Ms Wells, MSP (Listing) rose into contention on the Tory regional List. I expect they thought she looked photogenic.

      But then they have form at Westminster, step forward for dishonourable mention: Nadine Dories MP.

    13. scunner says:

      It’s a combination of stupidity, deviousness and narrow-mindedness.
      A large proportion of these unionist MSPs are in way over their competency level. So blinkered and single-minded in their hatred of the SNP that they’re incapable of stepping back a bit to “proof-read” their pronouncements before hitting the “send” button.

      Actually, Scrub that – I’ve just remembered some of her earlier ones, and I’ll go with the Rev on this. She is indeed Empress of the idiots.

    14. orri says:

      How many sporting achievements does Lance Armstrong currently hold?

      Allegedly being British means being a good sport. However these spivs want it to mean being a compliant loser who never complains when they find they’ve been conned.

      Brexit is a prime example of this. We’ve voted so no amount of new information can ever justify a change of direction.

    15. Ken500 says:

      It could be a manipulate hoping more people in Scotland vote to Leave. Hardly likely. Once again the Scottish electorate being used to solve Westminster’s mess. Best to stay hands off. Let them solve their own mess. They called the EU Ref. A EU Ref Scotland never wanted. Imposed on it. To stop the possibility of UKIP winning one seat in Westminster. Cameron’s fatal legacy. The Tory and unionist mess of inadequate psycho bastards, wasteful and incompetent. Dancing dripping wasters. An embarrassing affront.

    16. galamcennalath says:

      All the evidence seems to suggest an official Tory policy of selecting only the dimmest to take up elected public office in Scotland. Understandable really. The last thing they want would be politicians capable of understanding, questioning, and drawing conclusions. That would be dangerous. They might see another better way is possible.

      Yup, you have to be very special kind of dumb to represent the Greater England Nationalist Party in Scotland.

    17. Socrates MacSporran says:

      The great Jonathan Watson used to, on one of his radio programmes, play Cathy Jamieson as a wee Glesca hoose-wife, obsessed with shopping in Matalan and TH Maxx.

      I always felt this was unfair on Cathy, who was one of the sharper knives in an admittedly generally dull Labour cutlery tray.

      I now feel, if he gets a chance, Jonathan should bring the character back as Annie Wells – a much-more fitting recepticle for his satire than Cathy ever was.

    18. Sinky says:

      Good article on media bias at Business for Scotland

    19. Welsh Sion says:

      Is Annie Wells the re-incarnation of the Better Together “Lady”?

    20. Doug_Bryce says:

      A crucial point about democracy is that voters can change their mind. Future parliaments can’t be bound forever more by previous decisions (… i,e voters must always hold the ultimate power).

    21. Bob Mack says:

      Giving people the option of expressing an opinion is
      Kryptonite to Ms Wells.

      Tory dogma dictates you only get one bite at the election cherry, and if you change your mind then too bad. Tory policy comes first and last albeit harmful to the population as a whole. Then again Tory policy these days depends on which faction of the party has the most leverage and ammunition to blackmail Mrs May.

    22. Clydebuilt says:

      Annie Disnae know which way to turn, looks a bit lost! . . . . She didn’t pose for that photo did she?

    23. Capella says:

      Mining a rich seam here.
      I recall that Ms Wells does not respect the Scottish Parliament nor MSPs’ votes.
      It’s the fatal combination of ignorance with arrogance that makes for world class idiocy. Nicola can’t be blamed for Ms Wells’ lack of capacity. That can be squarely laid at the door of SLab along with rip-off PFI schemes and the d’Hondt version of PR we are stuck with – for now – which allows such idiots to sneak in despite the efforts of voters to exclude them.

    24. jfngw says:

      When you are a chief administrator of a branch political party with no actual policies (well one but it’s not really much of a policy, no to democracy) it is best to surround yourself with pygmies, you look like an intellectual giant in comparison. Also there is no threat to your position, you can remain branch manager for as long as you want.

      Come on, can anyone think of a Tory that anyone can name, probably the closest is Alex Cole-Hamilton. Not officially a Tory but backs the Conservatives single policy 100%.

    25. Ken500 says:

      Cathy Jamieson is full of mince. They is not an intellect among the ‘honourable opposition’ of any hue. Dragged off the street to make up the numbers. The listers. The corruption of the Scottish electoral system with no mandate. Voters can’t get rid of them. A total embarrassing affront to Democracy.

      Goodness sake another subsidised wedding ‘regal’ scroungers. To infuriate folk. £millions to do up Bucks Palace over 10 years. More waste. Royals over cost £400Million a year.

    26. Fred says:

      You mean Annie Wells is my MSP? claps haun to forehead!

    27. Breeks says:

      Double whammy of course being these democratically elected “Champions of Democracy” want to deny the Scottish Electorate the right to hold a democratic referendum, in a Nation where the popular will of the people is Sovereign.

      If I was Presiding Officer at Holyrood, I’d have these halfwitted vegetables slung out the Chamber for bringing the essential principles Scottish Democracy into disrepute, and not allowed back in until they could demonstrate a rudimentary grasp of Constitutional principle. They are meant to be the professionals, but their very unprofessionalism makes your toes curl.

      The jury is out on whether the same might be said of the incumbent PO, who’s grasp of Scotland’s Constitution seems “troubling”.

    28. CameronB Brodie says:

      Are we not perhaps straying into the realm of Ableism? 🙂

      Moral Cognition

      Moral cognition is the study of the brain’s role in moral judgment and decision-making. As a social science, it involves understanding the rationalizations and biases that affect moral decision-making. Moral cognition also involves the scientific study of the brain that is evolving along with technology.

      Researchers who study moral cognition attempt to provide social and biological explanations for how our brains process information and make moral or immoral choices. Some scientist examine genetic and molecular influences, while others use neuroimaging to map the areas of the brain that direct people’s choices.

      Moral thinking appears to be a complicated process. There is no single seat of moral activity in the brain. However, a network of various regions of the brain does consistently appear to be involved in moral decision-making.

      So, the study of moral cognition does not aim to tell people what choices they should make. Rather, it attempts to explain how and why people make the moral choices that they do.

      The Cheater’s High: The Unexpected Affective Benefits of
      Unethical Behavior

      Moral Reasoning at Work: Rethinking Ethics in Organizations

    29. dakk says:

      Looks like she’s contemplating her green cross code.

    30. desimond says:

      Marks and Spencers loss was Scotland gain..loss I mean loss! ( can you imagine being a shopper and having to face a smiling Annie looking to help you find the coleslaw!)

      Can anyone justify being a List MSP?
      What do they actually do?
      Bar pop off to Israel for jollidays like Annie and her “friends” of course.

      Surely its all or nothing..either PR or First Past the Post as this current fudge resulting in MSPs then “list MSPs chosen by letting Parties choose seat warmers” system is a travesty against voters decisions.

    31. Collie says:

      Annie Wells smells.

    32. desimond says:

      I imagine Tory MSPs spend most of their time trying to ensure they remain high on the list ( through inner party manipulation not actually doing a good job in representing any annoying and demanding constituents) as there is surely gonna be a cull at the next election. ( keeps fingers tightly crossed)

      I would imagine same for Labour but they seem intent on scything out from above so will be a little clearer for them when the time comes. Poor Kez will have no doubt checked out the parachute payment scheme by now.

    33. John Bell says:

      My wife finally voted yes after seeing the “eat your cereal” video. Never underestimate the power of their stupidity.

    34. Ottomanboi says:

      Being a Scottish Tory is such fun….OK Mr DeMille, I’m ready for my close up!

    35. d’Hondt is responsible for Murdo Fraser being able to extract over one million pounds for you and me, since he entered the Scottish Parliament. Nice work if you get it.

    36. Camz says:

      62% of Scots said nope to Brexit, and she ignored that aspect of democracy too.

    37. Artyhetty says:

      Britnats like Annie Wells do not do democracy. These people are not necessarily thick, or stupid, but will do anything to do down the SNP, even if it means lying, and, or appearing to be very dim.

      It makes no differenece what we think about these people, they still have their political status and very lucrative renumeration handed to them each month from the public purse. They are there to deny democracy, puppets, well paid puppets.

      We all know that this person cannot hold a candle to people like Nicola Sturgeon, a person of high intelligence and unfailing integrity.

      Politics in the UKOK is a farce, deliberatly so, and the Scottish parliament is filled with these incompetent troughers, all placed there to undermine democracy in Scotland. They answer to their London masters, end of.

      The calibre of Britnats at Holyrood is dire, they don’t even care that they do not actually know the job they are paid to do, not knowing which powers are reserved to their London masters UKOK gov, or which are devolved to the country that they masquerade as representing, ie the country of Scotland. It’s all very convenient for the Britnat state.

      They are paid to not know, or pretend not to know, and ultimately to lie, while hoping that enough people in the UKOK and especially in Scotland, do not know either.

      They have a problem though, the people of Scotland do know, and refuse to be fooled by these con men and women anymore.

      Just one more thing, we should steer clear of making remarks about how people look, particularly if female, we don’t like it when the Britnats do that, it’s not a good look, no pun intended!

      I don’t care if they look like an alien from Hitchhikers, I do care about what they say, and what they do and how they conduct themselves in public office.

      Re; Street Andrew@11.06.
      Comment on their conduct, not on their outward appearance.

    38. jfngw says:


      It does though possibly explain the M&S state if the rest of the organisation are of the same quality, ‘It’s not just any type of stupidity it’s…’

    39. Petra says:

      The Brain of Britain, Annie Wells, pontificates as to why Nicola Sturgeon shouldn’t be in the US talking about climate change.

      …”NHS and education are up there higher than climate change right at this minute in time.”

      Reporting Scotland 02/04/2017


      ‘Mhairi Black MP Slams Trident Renewal.’

      ..”National Security Strategy 2015 set out the Tier 1 threats faced by the UK … International terrorism, climate change and cyber crime.”…


      ‘Planet has only until 2030 to stem catastrophic climate change, experts warn.’

    40. Giving Goose says:

      Where the British Nationalist parties fail, IMO, is that they lack a “Big Idea”; a concept that you can anchor your aspirations to.

      There simply cannot be a “Big Idea” coming from the British Nationalists.
      It goes against everything that they hold dear, and that is their terminal weakness.
      You will not witness the end of the House of Lords, redistribution of wealth, binning Trident, redistribution of power away from London, an end to FPTP voting, because turkeys do not vote for Christmas.

      That lack of an Idea to sell to the voters is reflected in the lack of skill among British Nationalist politicians. Annie Wells is simply one of many. There are too many to name. I cannot think of a British Nationalist politician in Scotland that I respect. The talent pool has dried up. And actually that’s the point, I suspect.

      The BritNat brigade are just mouth pieces for their London Masters. They do as they are told to do. And really, when you are incapable of articulating a positive future for Scotland, because a positive future simply does not exist while a part of the UK, all you need to do is turn up and read from the script. You know the one, “SNP Bad, Scotland is Crap etc”

      I can conceptualize several “Big Ideas” within the framework of the UK, but they would require such fundamental change that they simply won’t happen.

      You would be asking those who hold power to give up power.

      Independence! Now that is a “Big Idea”.

      Independence is something that you can anchor your aspirations to and because it’s the only “Big Idea” in town it can win, and it can win big.

      Getting back to the flip side, the current UK, what is there about it that is attractive to me? I’m ambitious for my country, my society. But the UK is a diminishing state. It is going down the pan. What is there of positivity that I can realistically pursue while part of the UK? A reverse of Brexit? That’s about it!

      No, give me hope for a better future. A “Big Idea”. Independence for an better future.

    41. MoreAnon says:

      Does anyone know how this stellar intellect ended up as the Convenor of the Cross-Party Group on Autism?

    42. £1200 a week plus expenses and fre meals, and 14 weeks’ paid holiday year(she has no constituents) puts her right up there as Gravy Trainer of the week right enough.
      But let’s not forget that That Dick Leonard has appointed James ‘I will not sit down’ Kelly as Finance Minister in the next Red Tory But Sort of Commie Now Scottish parliament.
      There is a list of 50 plus utter numpties getting money for nothing on the Brit Nat benches in Edinburgh.
      The Lib Dems, Rumbles, Bumbles, Stumbles, Mumbles, and Crumbles, must be contenders for Gravy Train Team of the Year surely?
      From the get go, Day One of Independence, we scrap d’Honte.
      It has literally cost us tens of millions in wages to pay some of the biggest pile of failed councillors, Everybody Out shop stewards, and millionaire land owning/farming posh boys, and card sharps, ever assembled under one roof.
      They were chosen deliberately of course: to destroy Scotland as a nation.
      They are unbelievably bone headed and they will be rewarded for their idiocy post Holyrood in the form of knighthoods, ‘visiting professorships’, a Lairdship here and there, or a column on a Brit Nat Dead Tree Scroll writing every week about how really shite Scotland is, and btw Nicola Sturgeon’s a Bassa.
      There was a Wall of Silence from the Fourth Estate Fifth Column on Sunday.
      The AUOB march in Edinburgh didn’t happen.
      This is the country in which we now live.
      Our Press and Broadcasters are mere Propaganda Units for the English, and Edinburgh Oligarchies.
      That we have to spend time refuting the utter nonsense coming from Wells, or Briggs, or Kelly, or Murdo The Queen’s Eleven Fraser, suits the Iron Heel Oligarchy.
      It means that they can get on doing what they do best while we are distracted: raping Scotland and its wealth.

    43. Iain mhor says:

      Well, to be honest (and I was thinking the same thing about Dugdale) It seems that managing to gross 62K is pretty clever.
      I hadn’t realised that I could earn that kind of moolah by convincing 2000 people to vote for me. So I now have to consider myself dumber than Ms Wells.
      My next task is to work out how to get myself on the list. I’ve qualifications coming out my ears and knocked my pan in all my working life and never got near that kind of dosh. What a halfwit.
      Hell, I could buy those kind of votes at a score each if I was lazy and still be up on the deal nowadays. Yeah, yeah buying votes is illegal, except it isn’t is it? I seem to recall quite a large official government purchase recently, in 7 figures.

    44. Josef Ó Luain says:

      Wee Annie et al, they almost makes you nostalgic for times pre de’Hondt.

      O/T Qualitative nuance: The wretched B.B.C. are referring to Saturday’s Edinburgh turn-out in terms of “tens-of-thousands”.
      Even the most wild-headed amongst the Unionist realise that 20, 000 was, even for them, a joke too far.

      Well done, us!

    45. In Edinburgh Sunday Amature football (the hangover leagues),some teams couldn`t get enough players after the depredations of a Saturday, either players on the bevvy or in the A&E or in the pockie or the wife dragged them to the outlaws,

      so the teams used to troll the local area looking for anyone that wanted a game,and i mean anyone,

      best place was the bus stops,

      these teams we called `the bus stop kids`

      it was like you were playing the Bash Street Kids and there was always a Dennis the Menace type nutter amongst them,

      anyhoo the MSP`s of the British Nationalists Parties always makes me wonder if checking the bus stops was how we ended up with this bunch of deadbeats.

    46. LesRoches says:

      If she stands out it is because she sitting on the shoulders of giant idiots……

    47. CameronB Brodie says:

      Narcissists are driven by an egotistical self-admiration. Psychopaths are born with an inability to empathise and lack a sense of moral responsibility. Sociopaths resemble psychopaths but are created through gaining reward for dysfunctional social practice.

      Narcissist, Psychopath, or Sociopath: How to Spot the Differences?

    48. defo says:

      Wells Farrago ?

    49. Les Wilson says:

      My son just sent me on JPG a statement by AUOB that the Edinburgh Police have stated numbers at the march as 193k. If accurate no doubts we will hear more.

      If so the squeaky bums will be multiplying! Wow.

    50. Clootie says:

      …empty wells gains a new meaning

    51. CameronB Brodie says:

      Here’s one for those who wish to undertake a more detailed study of troughing and democratic accountability in the Scottish Parliament.

      Performance Epistemology: Foundations and Applications
      The Epistemology of Stupidity

      This chapter analyzes stupidity as a problem for epistemology. Its proper home belongs to virtue epistemology, as a specific epistemic vice, which has to be studied along the lines of both reliabilist virtue epistemology and of responsibilist virtue epistemology. The author distinguishes between two kinds of stupidity: stupidity proper and foolishness. The former is a defect in the competence of an agent, as well as in the performance of judgment, and it is generally studied as a failure of rationality along intellectualist lines. The second is a failure to evaluate properly the nature of the epistemic goal, and is a form of epistemic indifference, which involves an insensitivity to epistemic values and norms. This chapter analyzes their varieties, and suggest that the boundaries between stupidity and foolishness are often less clear than it is suggested by the author’s taxonomy.

      Keywords: stupidity, foolishness, epistemic virtue, epistemic vice, virtue epistemology, epistemic value, epistemic norm

    52. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Les Wilson.

      RE: “193,000”.

      See my two posts on the previous page:-

      It reads like a kinda reverse propaganda from “somebody”. No verifiable source for the 193,000 claim has been posted anywhere.

    53. Indyman says:

      D’Hondt must go

    54. Weechid says:

      Personally I feel that the SNP should abstain on any future vote on whether there should be a 2nd EU referendum and simly say “Now is not the time”. Does anyone seriously believe that there will be any deal for helping WM out of the shit they have created? Whether the end result is in or out it will be back to basics and once again our representatives will be told that the only thing they can do is “commit suicide”. I wish the SNP would grow a pair and stop acting like the caretakers of a UK colony. How many times will they go back and lick the hand that beats the shit out of them?

    55. Les Wilson says:

      Brian Doonthetoon says:
      Hi Brian, suspect this is where it came from,

      #auob hashtag on Twitter

      On Oct 6 @joannaccherry tweeted: “Huge turnout at #AUOB #indy march in #Ed.. … BREAKING NEWS: Police Scotland has now stated “193,000” attended the Edinburgh March # …. Joanna Cherry QC MP Verified account @joannaccherry Oct 6 … Before anyone starts talking down the #AUOBEdinbugh numbers (and they

    56. yesindyref2 says:

      It’s life, Rev, but not as we know it.

    57. CameronB Brodie says:

      Of course, the BBC will be doing their damnedest to make the prospect of an indyref wholly unappealing to voters.

      The Political Value of Time


      Voting is an act of political behavior that has been explained in a number of ways. A sociological approach may see the voter as driven by class connections. A psychological approach may view voters as susceptible to appeals to authority. A historical approach may count on voters acting pretty much the way people in the district always have. An institutional approach might pay special attention to the political barriers to voting at all. A geographic approach may see the voter appreciating the special eco-systems in which voters find themselves. A communications approach may focus on voter links to media and how they are swayed. A social psychological approach may stress that political groups, especially political parties, are key attractors for voters.

      Finally, an issues-based approach may stress the idea of a reasoning voter, who weighs the pluses and minuses of candidate platforms before voting. Thus, there are many, and varied, approaches to the study of voting behavior. Of those mentioned, economic voting comes closest to the issues approach, although it differs in that it emphasizes one issue—the economy. What holds economic voting theory together is the notion that voters pick candidates on the basis of their economic influence. In particular, incumbents who have presided over economic prosperity are rewarded at the polls, while those who are deemed responsible for decline are punished.

      “A Virtuous Circle: Political Communications in Post-Industrial Societies.”

      Chapter 12
      Stays Home? Political Mobilization

      Do newspapers, television and the Internet serve to mobilize voters? Or instead do these media reinforce activism? Or even damage civic engagement? The literature remains divided. After outlining the theoretical framework for understanding political participation, the chapter examines the evidence for two issues: what is the impact of traditional political communications on electoral turnout? And, given the explosion in the use of new technology, does the Internet have the capacity to play a distinctive role in civic engagement? The conclusion considers the broader implications of the findings.

      How Science Can Help Get Out the Vote

      Research offers several proved strategies for boosting turnout on Election Day

    58. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Les Wilson.

      From your link above, this is the only tweet by Joanna Cherry QC MP:-

      “Joanna Cherry QC MP
      ?Verified account @joannaccherry
      Oct 6

      Huge turnout at #AUOB #indy march in #Edinburgh. Great to see so many @theSNP MPs & MSPs here @KeithBrownSNP @TommySheppard @Ivan_McKee @YesMorningside @EdinburghSNP”

      However, the second tweet is,

      “Norma YES Learmonth
      ? @Norrie30
      Oct 6

      Police Scotland has now stated “193,000” attended the Edinburgh March #AUOB”

      Now, if you click on that tweet, you are taken to the original thread on Norma YES Learmonth’s Twitter feed, which is here:-

      You should read the comments. Umpteen people ask where Police Scotland gave out the figure of 193,000 and she can’t answer.

      You’ll find this comment if you scroll down:-

      ? @yescotland
      22h22 hours ago

      You claimed “breaking news” that @policescotland confirmed 193k. This is most likely you re-posting the news from “Scottish Mums for Indy” (since deleted) which they posted based on someone overhearing a police officer. Was this the source of your 193k figure or just coincidence?”

      So it looks like that figure came from “Scottish Mums for Indy” (who then deleted it), rather than an official figure from Police Scotland. You’ll also see, as you scroll down, the ONLY police statement, quoting Edinburgh council’s figure of 20,000, reposted a number of times.

      Lastly, in your post you typed,
      ” …. Joanna Cherry QC MP Verified account @joannaccherry Oct 6 … Before anyone starts talking down the #AUOBEdinbugh numbers”

      So I did a control/command-F word search for “Before anyone” and found that Joanna Cherry didn’t tweet that.

      “Scot Caesar!yes
      ? @ScotCaesar!yes
      Oct 6

      Before anyone starts talking down the #AUOBEdinbugh numbers (and they will) as to diminish the want for #ScotRef, there are plenty of people in Edinburgh who support independence who are not marching. (Like me) #AUOB is merely a sample.”

      I’m perfectly content to accept AUOB’s “official” estimate of 100,000 or thereaboots. The figure of 193,000 appears to be FAKE NEWS

    59. Robert Peffers says:

      @dakk says: 8 October, 2018 at 12:03 pm:

      ” … Looks like she’s contemplating her green cross code.”

      Naw! Someone told her to go and play among the traffic and she took them at their word.

    60. AndyMcAngry says:

      Agree totally Weechid.
      A people’s vote or whatever England wants to call it should be their problem. Scotland voted overwhelmingly to remain in the EU, we don’t need another vote and we should not be assisting a country that treats us like a colony to get out the shit they brought on themselves.
      Brexit is guaranteed Independence for Scotland, so why endanger that outcome by helping England out the shit.
      If we did, does anyone really think they will thank us!!
      Agree as well, that although timing is important, the SNP, and as a member I email them regularly about this, definitely need to grow a set. Their priority is Scotland, not England and not the UK and their aim should be Independence not appeasing those that oppose it.
      Surely the events of Saturday will help them grow the aforementioned set!!
      The forces of Unionism will never be this weak and disorganised again.
      AND of course Annie Wells is a complete dolt, indicative of her support I would suggest!!

    61. Macart says:

      Oh Lordy! 😮

      I didn’t think that was possible.

    62. Fred says:

      @ defo, go to the top of the class! 🙂

    63. yesindyref2 says:

      It’s difficult estimating it, but I’d say there could have been enough to fill Murrayfield (67,000) and maybe more as it was staggered over so long a time – plus those who didn’t march. 193,000, no chance, and perhaps that was orignally a planted figure.

    64. Habib Steele says:

      Candidates ought not to be allowed to stand for constituency and on the list.

    65. Cubby says:

      I suggest the following changes to the Holyrood system.

      1. A maximum of 2 terms as an MSP on the list.

      2. If you stand for election as a constituency MSP and fail you cannot be on the party list.

    66. sassenach says:

      Please, can we stop cutting ourselves up about the “193 000”, it really doesn’t matter!!

      The march was a great success, and thousands (around the world) have seen pictures and videos and will be able to see it’s size for themselves. The precise number is irrelevant.

    67. Cubby says:

      British Nationalists still have a British Empire mindset.

      This means that they do not see the populations of their colonies as having rights. They will break any rules, dishonour any agreements and use deceit, lies and force of arms etc to retain control over their colony.

      In the 2014 referendum I did not expect the Britnats to play fair and stick to what was agreed and they did not disappoint me. As a result I do not have any confidence in an independence referendum or the independence polls that have any Britnat influence/involvement. They cheat and lie. ” That’s not cricket” is only for the colony.

      The Britnats cannot be trusted. Plenty of historical evidence. Their word is worthless. Their signature on any agreement is worthless. A section 30 is worthless.

      In summary I say ” stuff your section 30 “.

    68. Les Wilson says:

      Yes, regardless of the none validity of 193k marching. I too, am happy with the result of a 100k. It was still a huge march and I was happy to be on it, along with my son and grandson. The flags were awesome, along with our three of course!

      Another 8 marches being planned as well, according to the national, we are all going to busy.

      I will be at as many as I can for sure.

    69. Thepnr says:

      @Les Wilson

      The next march I would love to be part of is when we take our support for Independence to Parliament Square in London.

      I wouldn’t miss it for the world.

    70. Billy T says:

      Sublime dissection

    71. gus1940 says:

      I saw a picture of a substantial number of people with flags on the Edinburgh Castle Esplanade on saturday with no visible attempt by HES to remove them.

      How did this differ from last weekend’s farce at Stirling Castle?

      Does this mean that HES have seen the error of their ways and thrown in the towel?

    72. yesindyref2 says:

      @Thepnr “The next march I would love to be part of is when we take our support for Independence to Parliament Square in London.

      Why? London is irrelevant, it’s the Will of the people of Scotland is the only thing that matters.

    73. yesindyref2 says:

      There would have been a lot of witnesses at Edinburgh Castle, the whole area was heaving with tourists, including probably some world press. At Stirling there were none. Headline:

      “Saltire forcibly removed from Edinburgh Castle”.

      The police wouldn’t have been interested, and HES were stuffed.

    74. Thepnr says:


      The answer to the “Why” is obvious unless you missed the media coverage of 200 dugs and their owners on a march to Parliament Square on Sunday in support of a second vote on the EU The comparison with the coverage giving to Saturdays pro-Indy march in Edinburgh was striking.

      It was literally wall-to-wall with every major newspaper covering it, reported on Sky, and others I’m sure with interviews of the organisers and marchers.

      It was disgusting in comparison with our coverage. Take it right into their faces then let’s see them try and be so dismissive when that happens. In fact even set up a camp on the square argue for the democratic right to a vote.

      Make ourselves unmissable right in the lair of the beast.

    75. yesindyref2 says:

      I look at it another way. The ordinary people in Holyrood Park, workers at the Holyrood Parliament, owners in bars and shops all down the Royal Mile and along Johnson Terrace, the market in Castle Street, Usher Hall and Lothian Road, Princes Streeet, bars around streets off like Cockburn Street, hostels like I stayed in, hotels and B&Bs, bus and train stations, people on the buses and trains and roads with cars wtih saltires flying out of the windows, roads along where the YES bikers rode, bus stations in Glasgow where I came through, the train I was on to Glasgow, and similar for all other places like Skye, Shetland, Inverness, Dumfries, Dunfermline, and all their visistors, residents in flats, tourists asking people then or later what was going on, knew there was a march on. And then they see the “coverage” on TV. Job done.

    76. cearc says:

      Anyone who wants to quibble about numbers could use the footage from Independence Live’s static camera and count them.

      Sorry, Thepnr, I have to disagree.

      I can think of little worse than going to London for anything and in any case it is none of their business. Demonstrating down there would be tantamount to accepting their authority as a valid.

    77. Thepnr says:


      For now it is their authority that is valid though I won’t get hung up on this. There is a prcedent, just look at William Wallace!

      All kidding aside, the only point I really wanted to make was the disparity between the UK media coverage of 200 people and their dogs marching for a second EU referendum with that we were given for Saturday’s march by 75,000. That’s the disgrace.

    78. Famous15 says:

      The march was fantastic and friendly but for me marches should be held sparingly and certainly not outwith Scotland.

      We now need a community centred campaign of information.

    79. Jason Smoothpiece says:

      We cant march on London the Tories have sacked lots of police officers its lawless down there and the hospitals are run down what if one of the team got hurt?

      But wait……when is the royal wedding?.

      Could march on that give em something to talk about.

      They wouldnt like that up them.

    80. cearc says:

      yesindyref2, 7.21,

      That was exactly the point I made after Inverness. The great advantage of having marches in lots of different locations is that each time lots of local people see it and then see that there is little or no mention in the media and ridiculously low numbers stated. So a new batch of people will be questioning the verity of the news they receive.

    81. cearc says:


      And look what happened to Wallace when he went to London!

      They don’t exactly embrace the concept of right to protest down there. They also don’t report demos whose opinions they don’t like.

      Fluffy doggies? Well that’s ok. Disabled people gridlocking central London, nae need to mention it.

    82. yesindyref2 says:

      @Thepnr / @cearc
      I remember seeing the demonstrations by the students against tuition fees. A few troublemakers, a few taking advantage and going out for looting, and the whole lot were “kettled”, including totally uninvolved local residents and workers, and the demo completely lost its point.

      Compare that to the police treatment of the Indy marchers, look at Police Scotland twitter for the football, and how the orange marches are calmly policed here. It’s a whole different world down there, basically speaking, a lawless one in a lot of ways.

    83. Thepnr says:

      @yesindyref2 @cearc

      You’re points have been taking on board. I can just as easily see the arguements against such a march as I can the pro’s.

      Yours win, we would lose it in the media not gain by the coverage as I would like. The powers that be would make sure of that, as it would be too easy to do so in London unlike here. So point well made, I’m convinced 🙂

    84. Andy Smith says:

      Annie looks to be heading down the u bend.
      Appropriate !

    85. yesindyref2 says:

      On the other hand if the S30 is refused (which I think unlikely for various reasons), and there turns out to be no Plan B, then we may have to take the march down to London.

    86. Thepnr says:


      You’re worse than me at changing your mind. You had support I had none. I always had the Section 30 business in mind.

      Piss off LOL 🙂

    87. defo says:

      Ta Fred
      In lieu of anything new to add, amuse.

    88. yesindyref2 says:

      It kind of humbled me going on that march (my first one ever). I went alone rather than with son so as to be able to talk to people and listen, and the amount of knowledge and understanding is pheno, phonom … incredible!

      So yeah, all under one banner indeed.

    89. Craig says:

      While I totally agree with you about the stupidity of Annie Wells tweets. I don’t agree that she was elected in an undemocratic fashion. Yes, she received a terrible share of the vote in the constituency she stood in, however, her party received enough votes on the list to return her to parliament. Much as I hate to say even the Tories deserve to be represented. The list system attempts to rebalance the injustice of first past the post. I would point out in the early days of the Scottish Parliament most SNP members were elected in exactly the same manner.

    90. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “The list system attempts to rebalance the injustice of first past the post.”

      For the billionth time: I’m not opposed to the list system. I’m opposed to it in the current precise form which allows candidates consistently rejected by the public to have a job for life with no effective means of holding them to account.

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