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The Ungrateful Nation

Posted on October 05, 2018 by

The plugin which normally embeds our Twitter feed on the Wings front page still isn’t working (doubtless because Twitter have made yet more spiteful and idiotic changes to their API), so those of you who don’t use the social media platform may have missed out on a gem this morning from everyone’s favourite Labour ultra-moderate.

Phew! Saved from economic devastation! Sounds like a narrow escape!

Oh. Oh yeah. We knew there was a thing. Still, it must be a mistake, because:

So that’s alright then. Looked scary for a minute.

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  1. 05 10 18 12:56

    The Ungrateful Nation | speymouth

252 to “The Ungrateful Nation”

  1. Clootie says:

    “….a NO vote does not risk us leaving the EU”

    That sums up the political awareness of Duncan.
    Labour saved us! 🙂
    Labour put the country first 🙂

    Poor old Duncan.

  2. Muscleguy says:

    It shows how far to the right Oor Dunc is that he thinks Corbyn and co are ‘hard left’. He obviously hasn’t hung out with the SWP or RISE in a while. As a result of the referendum I’m on nodding terms with our SWP guys, both of them. They behaved impeccably during the referendum, no attempts to take over the local RIC chapter, they mainly stood outside handing out their newsletters.

    If Dunc thinks Corbyn is hard left he must have a subscription to Readers Digest. They think Socialism is exactly equal to Communism. My parents gave us a subscription after we were married. Even after we cancelled it it took several moves not giving them a forwarding address before they stopped pestering us.

  3. Bob Mack says:

    Gross stupidity is 144 labour members in one room.

    OK I exaggerate the nmbers but—-

  4. Marc Rich says:

    Standard Hotherfool tripe.

    Off topic, but huge day for everyone on here tomorrow.

    We must make ourselves felt and heard tomorrow on the streets of the Capital.

    Attend, engage people, bring your friends, show the courage of your convictions by supporting the cause in person.

    Show Scotland they have nothing to fear and that the future is in good hands as an independent nation.

  5. manandboy says:

    Hothershall’s mouth is like a tap on a slurry tank. Horse shit, pigs shit, sheep shit, cow shit, goat shit, bull shit, hen shit, every kind of shit from the Unionist farm animals goes into Duncan Hothershall’s head. Then he opens his mouth and out it pours.

  6. manandboy says:

    Duncan Hothershall is a mercenary who gets paid only because he snipes at Scotland and everyone who supports Independence. In himself, he is just another British Nationalist, and a coward to boot. Otherwise, with the courage of his convictions, he’d go back and live in England, his true home.

  7. Macart says:

    ‘country ahead of party…’

    Which country?

    As for the statement on economic devastation? Just wow! 😮

  8. Frank Gillougley says:

    Duncan – the modern Brahan Seer then? That’s one helluva tweet. More like branflakes.

  9. Mike says:

    Hothersall is one of those “Party loyalists” you associate with Soviet style Commissars. People desperate for places of prominence within an organisation regardless of moral social legal or credible ideological credentials.
    This is a form of self serving reserved only to the cream of the self serving crop.
    An unblinking unquestionable devotion to any fluctuating party ideal or dogma to gain access to loyalty rewards given to the privileged and patronised within the organisation.
    These people truly are the worst level of vile despicable corruption within the various layers of corruption you find within organisations who trade in power authority and control.

  10. Thepnr says:


    Good grief! Hotdogstall: “I joined the Labour Party in 2010.”

    Isn’t that exactly the moment Labour started to go downhill? 🙂

  11. Geordie says:

    Funny how “putting country ahead of party” only applies in very carefully selected specific situations.

  12. Ken500 says:

    Google or whatever Wings Twitter. Google any twitter site. Even those not on Twitter can still read the comments. The comments can still be read although people not on twitter can’t comment.

    Hothersall has gone to drink looking at the state of him and the comments, He really needs professional help. If he has any friends maybe they could help.

    Why doesn’t he come off the fence and support Independence. He wants too but is too scared. Irrational. He is in a bad place. Change his habits.

  13. Yes Scotland could never survive on its own that’s why the unionist parties hid the Macrone report for 30 years country before party at work ???

  14. Scottish Steve says:

    I’ve actually seen many unionists say stuff along these lines. “We saved Scotland from devastation.” They don’t view their vote as merely their political preference but as an act of selfless sacrifice and nobility, rescuing a stupid nation from getting ideas above its station. Some of them have messiah complexes like this zoomer Duncan here.

    We saved the Jocks from themselves but they have the audacity not to vote for us! Yup, that’s how you win votes, Labour. Tell voters they should be grateful that their betters know what’s best for them and they should shut up and do as they’re told by voting for your party again like good wee boys and lassies.

    Not going to happen, mate.

  15. ClanDonald says:

    In five years time a hard brexit will have Americanised the UK. Our economy will be decimated along with our agriculture, workers rights, NHS, welfare state and environmental protections. Duncan Hothersall will still be telling Scotland that it’s better off controlled by England, despite the fact that he despises both the tory and labour party options that will available to rule over us.

  16. Ken500 says:

    He obviously has little awareness of Scottish/UK history and monetary settlement since 1928. Ignorance is no excuse.

    Labour a Party tearing itself to bits. Especially in Scotland with their ‘politicans’ illegally advocating voting Tory. Supporting all the Tory obnoxious policies. The rest of the UK has become a one Party state with no opposition. Labour do not want the poison chalice. Just a troughing existence. Including Corbyn. Unelected McCluskey would be in the running. Funding the illegal wars and Trident.

  17. Breastplate says:

    How on earth can Hothersall and his ilk have no sense of shame or embarrassment?

  18. Arbroath1320 says:

    Thepnr says:
    5 October, 2018 at 12:59 pm

    Good grief! Hotdogstall: “I joined the Labour Party in 2010.”

    Isn’t that exactly the moment Labour started to go downhill? ?

    I no scientist or whatever but there does appear to be a strong suggestion here as to why the Labour party went downhill … now if only I could put my finger on what exactly the cause of this “catastrophe” was! Perhaps wee Dunky baby could help me out here! 😀

  19. galamcennalath says:

    Some BritNats will, to their dying day, swear that UK togetherness was best. It’s a cultish faith based belief. Logic, evidence, examples, don’t come into it. Duncan here seems a prime example.

    All the evidence I see persuades me that iScotland would be a fairer, more equal, and more humane country. As a bonus we will probably be financially better off! If none of that were true then I wouldn’t be so keen at all. I like to think I make decisions based on facts, not unsubstantiated opinion.

    I also think many NOs in 2014 made their decision based on what they thought was best for them and their families. They made it while awash with misinformation and subterfuge. They were given false promises. UK seemed to them the safe option even if it was just the ‘Devil you know’. The EU was important to many, especially citizens from elsewhere. They didn’t necessarily make the wrong decision for them at that point – the important questions are, would they vote differently now, or what will it take to shift their position?

    I probably shouldn’t conclude that NO voters split into no hope BritNats, and the persuadable. Truth is, it’s probably a spectrum. Duncan is at one extreme end, it seems!

  20. robertknight says:

    Dunkin Horsefeathers been howling at the moon and chasing his tail again I see. Or is it howling at his tail and chasing the moon? Hard to tell…

  21. Muscleguy says:

    Wouldn’t it be fun to give all the top Yoons, Dunc, Torcuil, Alan Cochrane et al an all expenses paid trip to somewhere out of range of the internet or phone access (middle of the Gobi?) and then hold a snap referendum and win it? Then when they get back everyone can agree not to mention it and we can watch them go wtf? It would surely be worth the expense.

  22. Donald anderson says:

    Muscleguy says:
    “It shows how far to the right Oor Dunc is that he thinks Corbyn and co are ‘hard left. He obviously hasn’t hung out with the SWP or RISE in a while”.

    The SWP was recruited the SWP by the Unionist ruling clique. Wot a shock they got when the SWP went native and supported a Scottish Socialist Republic. Yes muscleguy, they did behave impeccably and there is nae fun in arguing wi’ thaim ony merr.

  23. winifred mccartney says:

    Saved the country aye England because they betrayed this country Scotland.

  24. Artyhetty says:

    I miss seeing the tweets on the Wings’ page, it was always a quick way to see what was being said on tweeter without spending ages on it, as I am wont to do. Maybe that’s the idea though.

    See those of you who can make it tomorrow, hoping the weathers stays nice. Getting the sanwiches (!) ready now.

    The word Labour, and left wing, and even more so, socialism, just do not go together. The right wing love to bandy the ‘socialism’ word about don’t they, hoping it terrifies some.

    It’s the rise of the far right in the UKGov that people need to worry about.

  25. Thepnr says:


    To be fair I wouldn’t blame Duncan for the demise of Labour by joining the party in 2010, it started well before that.

    1995 to be precise when they amended Clause 4 (an amendment written by one Tony Blair) and they then became Red Tory party which was the inspiration for new members like Duncan.

    The current Labour party mantra “For the many, not the few” specifically comes from that amended Clause 4.

    ‘The Labour Party is a democratic socialist party. It believes that by the strength of our common endeavour we achieve more than we achieve alone, so as to create for each of us the means to realise our true potential and for all of us a community in which power, wealth and opportunity are in the hands of the many, not the few, where the rights we enjoy reflect the duties we owe, and where we live together, freely, in a spirit of solidarity, tolerance and respect’.

    Their main problem now being they couldn’t live up to that one either.

  26. Les Wilson says:

    The Labour party in Scotland never warranted their position of trust in them. We never moved on as a country under their mismanagement. We were always treated as underdogs and that was the level we were made to stay at.

    Their come uppance has taken too long, but there is no going back now for them. They deserve every kick they get for a myriad of reasons.

    O/T Where would you say that propaganda against Scotland started from? England? I would have thought so, some may think the Nazi’s started it all off. But they would be wrong on either account.
    It was the Romans.

    It may be they were so admired for their propaganda against Scotland that England and the Nazi’s followed the Roman lead. Which of course has been copied many many times across the world since it’s inception.

    So read about it here and make up your own mind.

  27. Frank Gillougley says:

    To think that I joined the Scottish Labour Party in 1980, almost 40 years ago! When Clause 4 was still there. Dear oh dear. History. History. I left when Benn was defeated by Healey in 81. Interesting to have lived through it all. Even then many members in my CLP were thinking of going over to the SDP and I even remember then their irrational hatred (and I use the word knowingly) of the SNP. Nothing has changed there then. Oh that and the achievement of socialism through parliamentary democracy, apart of course for the viewers in Scotland.
    I must have been young once, is really all I can say.

  28. Macart says:

    @Thepnr 1.53

    Having seen how they practice politics, what they do to their own people, the people they represent and the people they govern?

    I’d say they don’t live up to any of those fine words.

    Haven’t for a very long time.

  29. Ken500 says:

    Google or whatever Wings Twitter site. Or any other twitter site. You do not have to be on Twitter to still read the comments. They can still be accessed through the internet.

  30. HandandShrimp says:

    I was a tad surprised to see that Anas and Jackie had joined the ranks of those cast into the Blairite darkness. No real surprise that the inventor of the Labour Party, Monica, has been brought into to replace Anas though.

    It strikes me that the further to the hard left that Corbyn et al push the more the centre left is left open to Nicola. Ruth for all her social liberalism is a hard right economic Tory and people like Lib Dem Cole-Hamilton are hard right Tories in all but name. There was a point when the centre ground was cluttered. It is remarkable that the other parties have vacated where most of the votes are. It is also remarkable that the most popular policies recently embraced by Corbyn are already SNP enacted and now May with her sudden revelation that building council houses is a good idea is hardly news in Scotland.

  31. Valerie says:

    This is a bit off topic, but, very relevant for Brexit.

    An excellent academic analysis by Michael Cohen, a social and political philosophy commentator, outlining the heavily invested financial players, really driving home how the whole thing is a set up.

    We knew that, but this piece is good at facts abd names.

  32. William Nicoll says:

    I suppose this is off topic, but the Scotsman articles and comments these days are purely a platform for SNP and Scotland bashing. It really looks like deliberate Johnston Press policy. I used to look at it their website regularly but now only when I want to get upset.

  33. galamcennalath says:

    Frank Gillougley says:

    I must have been young once, is really all I can say.

    Me too, funny that ! 🙂

    I have only ever voted SNP. I confess however, to helping some Labour friends deliver leaflets in 1979 in Cathcart with the aim of unseating ‘Teddy’ Taylor. He was a thoroughly objectionable wee naff! Many Tory politicians in Scotland were just as repulsive then as they are now!

    In 1974 I attended Harold Wilson’s campaign launch in Glasgow, taken along by a Labour member. Exciting stuff, I didn’t vote Labour though.

    Although I voted SNP, I also remember rejoicing whenever Labour displaced the Tories at elections. 1974 and 1997.

    Here’s the thing, though. Were the Wilson-Callaghan and Blair-Brown governments really better for Scotland? In both cases they may have slowed down progress towards independence.

    All shite down the pan now, but Labour was never any friend of Scotland’s. Worse than the Tories? As they say – hate the Tories for what they are, hate Labour for what they aren’t.

  34. Ken500 says:

    Once the only way in Scotland to keep out the Tories (Thatcher) was to vote Labour or LibDem. That is why people voted for them. Even if many did not agree with them. Just voted for them. Now some people try and vote for them to keep out the SNP. The SNP still win but the unionists try to gang up to keep them out. A corrupted political system in Scotland. Devised for that purpose. The lack of accountability in UK politics. Westminster unionists breaking the Law at every turn. Group are having to sue to make the UK Gov apply the Law. Westminster unionists breaking the Laws that they make, They think they are above the Law.

    More people in Scotland have seen the light of the unionist destructive policies and will not vote for them. Only since the year 2000 and Devolution has the Scottish population increase. Only since then have any semi official (Scottish) Accounts been published. Showing a different more current perspective.

    In terminal decline before then because of Westminster mismanagement. People had to leave to get a job while Scottish resources went south. Illegally and secretly to fund London S/E. Kept secret under the Official Secrets Act, Congestion and overcrowding afffecting adversely the local economy. Pollution.

  35. yesindyref2 says:

    @William Nicoll
    I’d guess Independence supporters just don’t bother with it, likely a good move as it doesn’t show the unionists in a good light, so they’re doing the job for us.

  36. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    Dunc Quixote still tilting at the windmills of Scottish Nationalism it appears.

    A prime example of that sense of self entitlement which characterises The British Labour Party in Scotland.

    The attitude of “We are right, you are wrong”, “Shut up and do as you are told by us, your betters”.

    Only a few short years ago BLiS weighed their votes rather than counted them.

    The British Labour Party in Scotland took those votes for granted and abused the trust of the electorate.

    Then the electorate woke up.

    Folks (predominately Blairites) like Dunc Quixote even now still cannot come to terms with the fact they have lost Scotland.

    Scotland will remain lost as long as the British Labour Party in Scotland put the needs of the “country of the UK/Britain”* before the country of Scotland and her Sovereign people.

    Dry your eyes Duncan.

    * I know there is no country of Britain or the UK, Mr Peffers.

  37. Dr Jim says:

    *Destroy the village in order to save it*

    Everybody’s heard that phrase before but what it means is destroy people, degrade people, subjugate people to such a degree that the people become grateful for a crust to keep them alive and will then show loyalty to the destroyers

    That’s how England proposes to hold on to it’s diminishing empire, Brexit is a new creation of poverty for the many so they will be grateful to the few, it’s the way England has always done things and gotten away with it so they’re doing it again

    English folk shouldn’t be offended when we make reference to an *English* government because the English folk themselves have nothing to do with how the people with power created the system that locked them into the same downward spiral, English folk are used as the same fodder everybody else is, they don’t count and never did they were just told that they did, like we were

    Follow the money, who has it and who wants it and who asks you to vote for those people to continue the same system to keep the people *hoping that next time will be different*
    *A new hope* but it’s not, it’s *The Empire strikes back*
    every single time

    We the people provide and they take promising every time that what we’ve provided they’ll give us more of back

    What kind of politics is it that doesn’t invest in the creators of the economy but actually removes their ability to create till that economy runs out leading to once again the England policy of

    *Destroy the village in order to save it*

    For who?

  38. Robert Peffers says:

    @Blair Paterson says: 5 October, 2018 at 1:05 pm:

    ” … country before party at work.”

    Aye! Blair, but that’s their error because British/English nationalists have the erroneous belief that when Scotland signed the Treaty of Union it formed a single quadratic country which, strangely enough, is called the United Kingdom and is legally a bipartite kingdom created by a political union of only two sovereign kingdoms. one of which had been for composed of several countries for centuries.

    The plain fact that One Kingdom plus one kingdom is one united kingdom. it is not one united country.

    It’s a bit like adding one apple to one banana and calling if a fruit salad.

  39. Street Andrew says:

    Can somebody remind me why we still a have Labour Party Branch office in Scotland ?

    It seems to have slipped my mind.

  40. Frank Gillougley says:

    galamcennalath says 2.31

    Hahaha 🙂

    I can’t remember exactly when the penny dropped for me though and I saw the light of the democratic deficit and the pointlessness of the ‘UK’. Maybe it was at George Sq when gorgeous george and willie mcilvanney and the like spoke after yet another glorious defeat. Scotland United? post GE 1983 or thereabouts?
    I think that may have been the mustard seed for me.

  41. starlaw says:

    Labour … Tory … two ends of the same see saw Westminster is the fulcrum.
    For years we were told vote labour keep the Tories oot and for years we believed as our Parents and Grand Parents believed, always hoping that for them things would get better.

    During the seventies things did begin to get better, my sister and I doing menial work out earned my father a miner, he took this very hard, then things started getting better for the miners… This wont last, the working man won’t get away with this, it will be stopped my mother predicted. History proved her right, the Tories using laws first put in place by Labour began the attack on the welfare state, then Labour got power … nothing changed now with Tories back in power, Scotlands escape route is no longer Labour, a party which has no purpose in Scotland.

  42. CameronB Brodie says:

    It’s not a healthy pastime trying to get your head around Scotland’s dysfunctional democracy, nurtured as it is by the ambiguous nature of British constitutional democracy and ‘British human rights’.

  43. Foonurt says:

    Duncy, yurr aff yurr heid.

    Wurr loard, shid drap froags oot thae cloods, oan ye.

  44. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    Why do we still a have Labour Party Branch office in Scotland? you ask @Street Andrew says at 3:20 pm


    To keep up the pretence of Multi Party Democracy in this Military Industrial Neo-Fascist State of “Gweat Bwitain”.

    Doesn’t matter the colour of Tory (Blue, Red or Yellow) in Scotland.

    They are a United British Nationalist Party.

    They are United in keeping Scotland subservient and tied to Westminster.

  45. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    “Labour … Tory … two ends of the same see saw” @starlaw says at 3:35 pm

    Aye, and Labour, Tory bother deliver Scotland ore of the same – Hee Haw


  46. galamcennalath says:

    ” EDINBURGH (Reuters) – The European Court of Justice has set a Nov. 27 date for a hearing to decide whether Britain’s parliament can unilaterally change its mind on Brexit”

  47. Tinto Chiel says:

    Reading Horsefeathers’ hogwash simply reminds me how lucky the independence movement is to have such Labour deep thinkers like Duncan and John McTernan.

    And then there’s James (“That’s not the point”) Kelly.

    Who votes for these numpties, apart from frothing SNP-hating fanatics? I mean, what are they actually FOR?

  48. mogabee says:

    Poor Dunkie, not looking very well, is he?

  49. galamcennalath says:

    Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    Doesn’t matter the colour of Tory (Blue, Red or Yellow) in Scotland.

    They are a United British Nationalist Party.

    They are indeed.

    What concerns me most is the ‘Scottish’ branding which is a downright lie on so many levels.

    Still, it is understandable that the more appropriate title ‘Anti-Scottish Labour Party’ doesn’t have quite the same marketing potential.

  50. Gary45% says:

    Mystic Duncyboy strikes again.
    Mibees ask santa for new baws Duncyboy .
    Have a good one tomorrow troops.

  51. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    Me @ 3:54 pm should read

    Aye, and Labour, Tory both deliver Scotland one and the same – Hee Haw

    Damn that wee screen and big fingers.

  52. call me dave says:

    Ah! Wings twitter back on page…excellent!

    This morning heard in the cafe.

    The Slab’shallow’cabinet.

  53. Ottomanboi says:

    Hard or soft Brexit, London will benefit……

  54. Hamish100 says:

    Re Johnstone press
    In Ayrshire all their local papers attack the SNP.Some of their journalists are young newly paid by bbc/ us supporting a private enterprise.

  55. Arbroath1320 says:

    Thepnr says:
    5 October, 2018 at 1:53 pm

    To be fair I wouldn’t blame Duncan for the demise of Labour by joining the party in 2010, it started well before that.

    1995 to be precise when they amended Clause 4 (an amendment written by one Tony Blair) and they then became Red Tory party which was the inspiration for new members like Duncan.

    The current Labour party mantra “For the many, not the few” specifically comes from that amended Clause 4.


    and here was I thinking I was showing some intellect … for once … oh well back to the grind stone for me it is then! 😀

  56. Arbroath1320 says:

    Apologies for O/T here folks but one or two ppes might be interested in this post from the AUOB Facebook page. 😉


    We are not long out of the meeting with the authorities Re #AUOBEdinburgh, where we sat round a table with Edinburgh council, Police Scotland and Historic Environment Scotland (HES).

    We are proud to announce that Police Scotland have made an executive decision in the interests of health & safety and public order to facilitate our stance that we are Rallying at Holyrood park and are implementing emergency powers to make this happen.

    HES maintained their political stance that we were still refused permission but after a long meeting where we held to our principles we are delighted to announce Holyrood park is ours Tomorrow.


    I’m thinking that there are now a great many people not only organising their picnics for tomorrow in Holyrood park but also their stalls now as well! 😀

  57. freedo says:

    ATTN maureen & Confused
    Posted stuff about Black 47 on previous thread for you both.

  58. Greannach says:

    And we’ve all been having a laugh at poor Jamie Greene! This character is just as much fun.

  59. ronnie anderson says:

    Arbroath1320 there’s mair.

    Below is the email confirmation we have received and we ask that all AUOB participants comply with the guidelines and treat the Parliamentary facilities with respect.

    ‘Good afternoon,

    Just to confirm, the Scottish Parliament will be open tomorrow (Saturday 6th October 2018) between 1000-1630 hours. The Scottish Parliament prides itself on being open and accessible to all and welcomes all visitors equally.
    We have a cafe, shop and toilets which the participants of your event are welcome to use. All I would ask is, as the Scottish Parliament must remain neutral, your participants leave any banners, flags etc outside the building on entry.
    If I can be of any further assistance, please let me know.

    Helen Birrell
    Security Operations Manager
    Scottish Parliament Security Office’

  60. ronnie anderson says:

    Arbroath1320 4.44 There is no mention of Stalls in that statement , I take it that would be the compromise with HES , the Wings Stall wont be there .

  61. Robert Louis says:

    Independence march Edinburgh tomorrow. It set off at 1PM, so get there much earlier to assemble.

    Assemble at Johnstone Terrace (at the back of the castle), then down the Royal Mile to Holyrood, where the rally will go ahead.

    Very important that as many as possible turn up. It looks like weather will be ok, and so it should be the most wonderful day. Let’s show Edinburgh Tories and their orangey (L.O.L) labour chums just how strong indy support is. A nice breeze for the Saltires.

    Details here;

    The Facebook page for the organisers (all under one banner);

    Remember, watch out for agents provocateurs, who might try to stir things, or cause confrontations. The best remedy for flag waving British Nationalists, is to laugh and smile. They want to make you angry, so do the exact opposite, and they are the ones who get angry.

    Great route, nice and easy, and right in the heart of Edinburgh. Well done to AUOB for the hard work, dealing with British Nationalist stooges at HES.

    HES need reminded, this is Scotland, and we’ll fly our Saltires proudly wherever we choose. The union jack is NOT, and nor has it ever been, Scotland’s flag. It is a colonial abomination.

  62. brewsed says:

    Apologies for O/T but…

    From Twitter…

    #AUOB are victorious! We have just left a lengthy meeting with Edinburgh council, Police Scotland and Historic Environment Scotland where an executive call was made by Police to facilitate our Rally at Holyrood park in the interests of H & S and public order.

    #AUOB wishes to extend an open invitation to all stalls to set up at the Parade ground of Holyrood park from 11am, but do no earlier than 11am.

  63. Thepnr says:

    @Arbroath1320 & ronnie anderson

    Appreciate the update for tomorrow. It was always meant to be a great day out for us all with none of this bother. Some people seem to have common sense after all!

    Looking forward to all the new people I meet who like me will be marching in support of Independence. It will be a great day and another small step on Scotland’s road to Independence.

    You too will be able to say “Aye, I was there” so nothing stopping you now, the sun will be shining so lets enjoy it 🙂

  64. Robert Louis says:

    Did I read that right from the Scottish Parliament, that flags must be left outside – on the grounds of ‘neutrality’. Does that mean the flag of Scotland is NOT allowed into the Scots Parliament.

    No parliament in the world would ban its own flag for heavens sake, on the grounds of ‘remaining ‘neutral’. Neutral on what? whether we are in Scotland? FFS!

    Cringe, cringe, cringety cringe.

    This kind of utter nonsense needs stopped. Have a bit of pride in your country for heavens sake.

    Somebody at the SCOTTISH parliament needs an education about the Scottish flag.

  65. Thepnr says:

    @ronnie anderson

    Shame about the stall this time. But there will be another

  66. Gary45% says:

    I posted a while back about a film called Jimmys Hall. Have a look at it, based on a true story. Will have a look at Black47 when I get the chance.

  67. Thepnr says:

    I hope as many of you as possible will make it tomorrow for the last march of 2018 in Edinburgh. Just a last mention that if you can then bring along something for donations to Scottish foodbanks which can be dropped off at the start of the march as per this link.

    I hate having to do this as welfare should be the responsibility of the state and I despise their existence in Scotland. Unfortunately until we’re Independent then we can only do what we can only do.

    Have a good day tomorrow, we’re marching in support of a better country where foodbanks will be confined to history.

  68. yesindyref2 says:

    Good grief, Police Scotland overruling HES on the grounds of public safety (and order I expect). I see others have got the news aleady.

    That’s an incredible black mark for HES, and heads at the top must roll now.

  69. yesindyref2 says:

    @Robert Louis
    Steady on, this is a victory for AUOB and common sense, and apart from that, many flags will have YES or other writing or symbols on them – and even the plain ones are being used in what could be regarded perhaps as a political fashion. The cross-party Parliament are going out of their way, and as far as they can.

  70. Nana says:


    Oil rich Aberdeen is now home to 20 foodbanks, outnumbering other Scottish cities, shock figures have revealed.

  71. Nana says:

    Not welcome in your own country, told to go back to where you came from!!!

  72. yesindyref2 says:

    PS – I see the BBC DO have The National on its paper page today:

    best linked from the main news page though as the URL would change every day.

  73. ronnie anderson says:

    Thepnr & Others its a bit to late in the day for me on my own to start loading Merchandise for the Wings stall, organisers Auob had better have a rethink on how they organise any future events . All credit to Police Scotland in saving the day . I hope to meet up with Wingers on the day Enjoy yourselves Folks .

  74. Shinty says:

    The Saltire is the flag of Scotland, for everyone.

    One could argue that it is the Union flag that is not neutral, since it only represents a political union between two kingdoms. (of which around 50% of the population which to dissolve)

  75. Thepnr says:

    If you’ve never been on a march before then here’s a wee flavour. I’ve never played this before as only saw it for the first time today so it’s not a link I’ve posted previously but it’s even better than the others. Unfortunately due to the kerfuffle with HES there is unlikely to be a stage like this one when the last march was held in Edinburgh in 2013.

    Watch the Rev at the start and if you hang on until the end then you will have the good fortune to hear a wee bit of Nicola Sturgeon and Alex Salmond providing some inspiration.

    That was 5 years ago and there’s everything still up for grabs.

  76. ScottieDog says:

    Just in reading about AUOB news!
    We will be there 🙂

  77. Shinty says:

    Sorry folks, to much haste. which means wish.

  78. Tinto Chiel says:

    Good news about the march. Looking out my blue suede shoes.

    O/T: Philippa Whitford will be on Pravdasound4 tonight @7 on David “Please, please, gimme a knighthood” Dimbleby’s Any Questions from Birmingham, it seems. Unusual: perhaps the body parts scandal may have been the trigger.

    Apologies for my extra and redundant “such” in my 3.55. Have thrashed myself soundly with birch twigs.

  79. yesindyref2 says:

    That’s ironic, another HES in the bad news section.

  80. Looks like the weather is going to be ideal in glorious Edinburgh tomorrow,

    maybe no tapps aff, but bright blue skies with a fresh autumnal breeze,

    perfect for the march and a picnic in the park after.

  81. gus1940 says:

    I suppose it was too much to expect Misreporting Scotland to include the good news about tomorrow’s march and rally.

  82. Gfaetheblock says:

    This is a wee bit of a tiresome arguement about No being the only way to stay in the EU. I say this as someone who would discribe themselves as an european federalist:

    Yes was a threat to EU membership, No was the only way to guarantee continued membership.

    Leave was a threat to EU membership, Remain was the only way to guarantee continued membership.

    A vote for Yes or Leave was a vote to put independence or brexit before EU membership. The two events are indepedant of each other, and there are many Yessers that would like to leave Europe, so there could well have been a scenario where we voted Yes, then had a Scottish EU ref, then Scoxit.

    No/remainders that I speak to see brexit as making indepednace seem even riskier, why would scotland risk two economic shocks in quick succession?

  83. Meg merrilees says:

    Robert Louis

    I share your indignation about leaving the Saltire outside BUT if a far right march ( with fascist emblems or other flags was using the loos in our Parliament as a ‘neutral’ space or if a Tory march with a load of Union flags were asked to leave them outside would you be quite so upset?

    Neutral sometimes means that the’ well behaved ones’ have to ‘suffer’ so that the bullies are

    Have a read at this article from the Hootsman – a list of Flags police have drawn up . According to Police judgment someone flying these flags in a ‘provocative manner’ could be committing a criminal offence. Who decides what a ‘provocative manner’ is ?

    Catalan, Irish, Vatican and so on…thought the article doesn’t mention it, I believe that the Red hand of Ulster is also on this list.

    Let’s all go out to enjoy the day tomorrow and bring on the day when we can walk anywhere in Scotland displaying our Saltires with impunity.

  84. defo says:

    I put my back out the last time i tried that Tinto Chiel.

    Self flagellation is more of a Tory thing anyhoo.
    Like smeggy beard munching.

    Sorry all. You’ll have had your tea. I hope. 🙂

  85. Cactus says:

    Hey nation, we arrived in oor Capital City earlier this evening, and SO welcome to the evening, gaun walkabout, Edinburgh is cool 🙂

    1 day remaining to go like.

    Ah’ll be back, nation.

    Now is the time to party!

    Aye am very grateful.

    Scotland X.

  86. CameronB Brodie says:

    “No/remainders that I speak to see brexit as making indepednace seem even riskier, why would scotland risk two economic shocks in quick succession?”

    That must have been quite a search for Leave voters in Scotland. Only a fanny would support Brexit!.

  87. yesindyref2 says:

    STV neither I watched both. Article in the Scotsman though online.

    March tomorrow – anyone know if, coming from the bus station I’m best going over the bridge over Waverley, or swing round through the gardens and back of the Castle? Flags might give it away I guess.

  88. Dan Huil says:

    I see the tiresome british nationalists are stuck with the one agrument against Scotland regaining its independence: boo hoo, brexit is terrible, just imagine how terrible Scotland regaining its independence will be, boo hoo.

    These britnats are not just ignorant but cowardly too.

    Echoes of “but whit aboot ma penshunnn?!” Gutless and selfish; it’s the britnat way.

  89. Fred says:

    The Slab omni-shambles at Holyrood was well covered by STV tonight, Pacific Quay zilch! nada! very strange.

  90. ScottieDog says:

    The flags thing is a non-issue for me.
    The biggest positive for me is the collection for the food banks. It’s a great idea.

    A big part of Indy for me is the rejection of neoliberalism. The city of London between 1995 and 2015 cost the U.K. economy £4.5 trillion.

    The British empire never went away. it simply went underground – into the cayman islands, Bermuda etc.

  91. defo says:


    Through gardens mate. You only have to climb the hill once that way!

  92. Robert Peffers says:

    @galamcennalath says: 5 October, 2018 at 3:55 pm:

    ” … ” EDINBURGH (Reuters) – The European Court of Justice has set a Nov. 27 date for a hearing to decide whether Britain’s parliament can unilaterally change its mind on Brexit” “

    This entire report is Cobblers Awls.

    The point being that as, “Parliament of Britain”, and thus Britain is not an EU Member State so Britain will not be leaving the EU or becoming an EU Member State and time soon.

    Last time I looked the EU Member State was the United Kingdom and the United Kingdom is not Britain. There is the Republic of Ireland and last time I looked it was still in the British Isles and an independent member state of the EU.

    As were the three, non-United Kingdom Government, Crown Protectorates which, far as I know, are not under United Kingdom Government governance. They are, all three, Associate EU Member States.

    So either the person writing this report is confused and is assuming that Britain is the United Kingdom of Britain part of Britain or the ECJ is off on a Wild Goose Chase.

    I think the former is the truth and it is, (deliberate or not), fake news in the published report.

  93. BBCQT is at Holyrood next Thursday,

    panel so i`ve been told by a reliable drunk is,

    Frankie Boyle,
    Stu Campbell,
    Tommy Sheridan,
    Craig Murray,
    Yanis Varoufakis,

    Oxbridge Bullingdon Boy Dimbleby canny be arsed coming to scotchland so Alex Salmond is hosting .

  94. starlaw says:

    @gus 1940

    from the Bus station over the bridge and walk up the High St. would seem best but if your coming from the West then get of the bus early and either through the park, or up Lothian road , taking second on the left.

  95. Gfaetheblock says:

    Cameron b Brodie

    I can honestly say that I know no self confessed leavers from Scotland . I speak politics with yes/no, Tory, lab, lib, snp and the non political, but I am struuggling to think of proud leaver I have come across. But then I stay in Edinburgh .

    Which is odd, as 38% of Scots who voted are pro brexit. But you are right, 2 in 5 Scots are fannies!

  96. Robert Peffers says:

    @Street Andrew says: 5 October, 2018 at 3:20 pm:

    ” … Can somebody remind me why we still a have Labour Party Branch office in Scotland ?
    It seems to have slipped my mind.”

    That’ll be because there are enough idiots daft enough to believe the lies that flow like a burn in spate from all of the three unionist parties that have always, no matter if the party names change, been the Westminster Establishment.

    In fact it is not possible for the so called United Kingdom to be a democracy. You cannot be a democracy and a monarchy at the same time. In a democracy the people are ultimately sovereign – in a monarchy the Monarch is legally sovereign and in the United Kingdom the monarchy of only the Kingdom of England is legally sovereign and, only under English law, must the monarchy of England legally delegate their sovereignty to the parliament of the Kingdom of E England. The last time an elected as such Parliament of England sat was on the 30 April 1707.

    How then does The Westminster, Parliament of the United Kingdom” claim to be sovereign over the whole United Kingdom when there hasn’t been an actual legally elected English Parliament since 1707?

  97. Ian Foulds says:


    Nana says:
    5 October, 2018 at 5:56 pm
    Not welcome in your own country, told to go back to where you came

    I was at Edinburgh Airport on 2 October and went to WH Smith on the first floor and enquirer of the lady if they stocked The National as I did not see any on display.

    She did not reply to my question nor to my comment as to whether it was Company policy not to stock but stated they could have been sold out earlier, thus implying she had not been there since the stand opened – this was around 8am. She then huffily informed me it was not her fault there weren’t any. When a lady approached, she said to her – how am I supposed to know when papers are finished – the lady said that I had only asked a question. The lady was my wife and was not impressed by the demeanour of the lady behind the counter. Personally, I consider she was not a good advert for Scotland, Edinburgh Airport nor possibly even WHSmith. Maybe it was the same lady!

  98. Jon Drummond says:

    Knock! Knock!
    Who’s there?
    Duncan who?
    Duncan make your garden grow.

    Or maybe not in (t)his case.

  99. Socrates MacSporran says:

    Scot Finlayson @ 7.47pm

    I’ll have a pint of whatever you’re on there.

  100. hackalumpoff says:

    @ Ronnie, PNR etc

    Unfortunately, as wur Ronnie says, a wings stall will not happen.

    So, to facilitate Wingers meeting Wingers I propose that ALL Wingers to head for a Wings flag, when they see one, and then WE can ALL congregate in the park under Wings Flags

    I posted similar in the morning but it never arrived, spooks eh.

  101. schrodingers cat says:

    in grenoble at the mo so i wont be at tomorrows march. good luck to you all, i will be there in spirit if not in person

  102. Meg merrilees says:

    Oyez oyez oyez!

    HES has issued a statement in the last hour that there must not be any stalls or a stage tomorrow. The ban is still in force.

    They want to clarify things after having read the AUOB ‘victory’ tweet.

    “HES maintained their political stance that we were still refused permission but after a long meeting where we held to our principles we are delighted to announce Holyrood Park is ours tomorrow.”
    The group also extended an “open invitation to all stalls to set up at the parade ground of Holyrood Park from 11am”.
    But Historic Environment Scotland told BBC Scotland that the police had not overturned the ban, and that All Under One Banner still does not have permission “for the set-up of stalls, staging, branding and other static presence within Holyrood Park”.

    A spokesman said: “Our position on use of the park for any rally after the march remains the same. It has not been overruled by Police Scotland.
    “We wish to advise that the public will be able to access Holyrood Park as normal on Saturday.”
    Police Scotland has not yet responded to a request for comment.
    Marchers will still be allowed to walk on the main road through the park as they make their way to the Scottish Parliament.

  103. Ken500 says:

    There are four foodbanks facilities listed for Aberdeen. On the internet.

    There are 20 organisations listed as pick up/drop off points? for parcels. P&J misinformation. Sceptical. It is information on a Council leaflet. The Tory/Labour collusion who support sanctioning and starving people. It is their policies. Kept in place by a two job Tory. Borrowing and wasting public money like there is no tomorrow.

    £500Million wasted on grotesque projects with no mandate or business case. Sitting empty. £1.2Billion in debt. Sold the City on the Stock market with absolutely no mandate. Colossal waste. They wanted to put homeless folk in prison. Campaigned for it. Wanted a new by Law passed by the Scottish Gov. The Council that cuts essential services and proper rehab facilities.

    Universal credit which unionist Parties support is being introduced in the City. They could be trying to cover their back in case of any outrage or hardship. Print a few leaflets.

    The P&J is full of nonsense. No research. Owned by a Dundee unionist. They support the unionist council. Reported to have an Office in the grotesque monstrosity. No doubt at discount. Better not together.

  104. Ruby says:


    I would go out St Andrews Square side of bus station turn right straight down and across Princes Street to Waverley Bridge and then up Cockburn Street turn right at top of Cockburn Street onto Royal Mile (High Street) and straight up.

    That’s what I would do if I was feeling fit otherwise I might take a bus up the mound to Royal Mile

  105. HYUFD says:

    Robert Peffers Not strictly true eg the US has no monarchy but the US Supreme Court can interpret the constitution and lay down the law in a way most US voters disagree with.

    Sweden, Denmark, Norway, the Netherlands, Japan all countries with well functioning constitutional monarchies as well as the countries the Queen remains Head of State of

  106. HYUFD says:

    Muscleguy According to Opinium only 5% of Scots have a positive, view of Communism, 71% have a negative view of it. Only 29% of Scots have a positive view even of Corbynite Socialism, with 43% having a negative view. Indeed London has more Socialists and Communists on this poll than Scotland so perhaps you might be better off moving to the Big Smoke!

  107. galamcennalath says:

    Robert Peffers says:

    the person writing this report is confused

    I have it on good account (which is as much as I am willing to say here) that the Edinburgh based reporter in question leaves much to be desired regarding Scottish affairs.

  108. CameronB Brodie says:

    Yep, as no logical justification has been given to Scotland. Brexit can be expected to devastate Scotland’s economy. Niether ideology nor bigotry put food on the table.

  109. Ruby says:

    Webcam on High Street opposite St Giles.

    Give a wave when passing!

  110. Famous15 says:

    Tomorrow is a fun day. A celebration of freedom of thought. The rally is clearly a non political ,it is above politics, it is constitutional and philosophical.

    The day after I will join others and commence a close examination of the decision makers
    in HES as they are clearly political and may even be anti Scottish.

    Labour and Tories on many occasions have used HES property without problem.

  111. Ken500 says:

    Staff at Edinburgh Airport do not tell non EU travellers (US etc) that they have to get their boarding passes stamped before they can board a flight (Ryanair). They can miss their flights, connections and hotel booking for onward travel. Causing more expensive. It is not a good reflection for the Scottish tourist industry.

  112. Cactus says:


    Hey Wings!

    Come and join us in Edinburgh…

  113. HYUFD says:

    CameronB Brodie At the moment it looks like May will agree the whole UK stays in the Customs Union to avoid a hard border in Ireland and get a Withdrawal Agreement and Transition Period, during that Transition Period post Brexit it will then be largely Brexit in Name Only while Free Trade Agreement Talks take place

  114. Jason Smoothpiece says:

    Think the Police would be well advised to avoid any trouble over flags.

    I cant think why the Israeli or Palestinian flag would be flown. As for the Vatican flag that should be rolled out when the pope visits but not at any other time, with the possible exception if a Scotsman becomes pope. Not a lot of chance of that.

    The flag of Catalonia is different we support their right to vote in Catelonia and they support us.

    In fairness I have seen flags displayed in a threatening menacing maner but it was not at an independence march oh no it was when our friends in the Orange order are bouncing along. How many arrests? Yep nil. Sorry that should be flegs.

  115. CameronB Brodie says:

    Scots who wish to Brexit effectively align themselves with a pernicious perversion of English nationalism and cultural practice. Is that what you support? If so, do you think that’s the outlook of a Scottish patriot?

  116. CameronB Brodie says:

    But what about my sovereignty. Why would I allow anyone to threaten that? That would not be in my best interests.

  117. Bob Mack says:

    I sometimes think the Unionists who post on here think they are influencing how we think. They forget one very important fact.

    Many of us WERE where they ARE. We have voted Labour or whatever much of our lives. We know how you think and why you think it.We have family who are Unionist.We have family who died for this country in war and conflict.

    In other words,we have shared your experiences of the UK and found it wanting. It is requiring change, no matter what the risks or challenges.

    You remain stuck in the Union mindset probably through fear of the unknown, When it comes to courage, we the supporters of independence have it in spades whilst you baullk at the thought of change.

    We are the future whilst you stagnate. Young and old alike on here walk together into a new horizon because we have no fear.

    We know we can make it. Unionism stands for cowardice. Nothing more.

  118. Robert Peffers says:

    @ galamcennalath says: 5 October, 2018 at 8:30 pm:

    ” … I have it on good account (which is as much as I am willing to say here) that the Edinburgh based reporter in question leaves much to be desired regarding Scottish affairs.”

    Yeah! I believe I got that point, galamcennalath.

    The thing is that it is so easy for genuine indy supporters to unintentionally slip into the same usage, or should that read mis-usage, as the intended Westminster Establishment propagandists.

  119. Petra says:

    Great to hear that the AUOB situation has been resolved (however too bad about the Wings stall, folks). The ridiculous Princess Street protest, astonishingly organised by AUOB, has been called off and the Scottish Parliament facilities will be open to all.

    As to leaving flags outside the Parliament building, I’d go along with that until such time as we get our Independence as there could be Unionists there carrying the Butchers Apron. I would imagine that a High Noon “flag” confrontation in the gents toilets (or more likely the ladies, lol) would be reported extremely negatively far and wide. Better Together were banned from holding an event at Holyrood Park in 2014, but if it had gone ahead we’d be raging if all and sundry had marched in waving their Union Jokes.

    It looks as though rain will be sweeping across England tomorrow as Scotland will be clear and bright. Good, eh! Let’s show Scotland (if anyone broadcasts it) what our future would look like with thousands of decent, positive, enthusiastic people sending a clear message to our colonial masters and that is, “Now IS The Time.” Take an item along for the foodbanks (great idea) and imagine how many people 30,000 plus items could help. Smile at the Unionists (or ignore), keep your cameras at the ready to catch any wee BritNat “activities”, pick up your litter and more than anything enjoy the day. Just imagine that this will probably be the last ever march before we get our freedom. Hallelujah.


    @ yesindyref2 at 5:58pm …. “BBC have the National on their paper page.”

    I wonder if it’s got anything to do with the heading, “Sarwar sacking prompts fresh concerns of Labour Racism?” Another slant on the Corbyn anti-Semite garbage? If the heading had been pro-Indy or anti-Tory you could forget it, imo, with the National being consigned to their BBC sin bin.

    However we’ll all be expecting to see the National being advertised by the BBC EVERY day from now on. Maybe Mr Small, Pacific Quay, Glasgow, Scotland could pass that message on to his bosses in London.

  120. HYUFD says:

    Cameron B Brodie London also voted Remain, are you suggesting London should therefore become a Singapore style city state? There are more people in London than the whole of Scotland after all.

  121. Gfaetheblock says:

    Cameron b Brodie

    I thought it was clear that I am pro Europe, I am anti-brexit. How do you describe 36% of SNP voters who for brexit? Aligned with English nationalists?

  122. CameronB Brodie says:

    London is the capital of England, which voted as a nation to leave the EU. Scotland is a separate nation to England, joined in voluntary political union. Do you think it reasonable to expect Scotland’s civil society to undergo the shock of Brexit, given Scotland voted to remain in the EU? Something Scotland was promised in return for supporting British nationalism, as long ago as 2014.

  123. Collie says:

    Why are we getting wall to wall coverage on our “National news” of a judge being appointed in America?

    Who the fuck gives two hoots whether he gets the job or not?

    England’s obsession with all things American continues.

    Or is it a deflection away from reporting on Brexit?

  124. Petra says:

    @ Meg at 8:16pm..”NO stalls at Holyrood Park.”

    What the H*LL is AUOB playing at? Are they deliberately trying to cause bother? How dare they behave like this. Dragging tens of thousands of people into this fray. Affording the Unionists and MSM a field day. Breaking the great trust / relationship that we have with Police Scotland. Thank God this will more than likely be the last march, because I won’t be taken for a bl**dy mug. A pawn in their wee “game.” If another is arranged I for one won’t be attending.

  125. HYUFD says:

    Cameron B Brodie If Scots cared so much about Brexit the SNP would have won a landslide at the 2017 General Election after the UK Leave vote and won well over 50% of the vote, instead the SNP lost over a third of its MPs and got just 37%

  126. Collie says:

    Really looking forward to the march tomorrow.

    Still a bit confused by the rules of the road,
    But once we are on the move it will take some stopping.

  127. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Bob Mack (9.02) –

    Well said there.

    Your testimony is priceless compared to any witterings from ‘usual suspects’ like me.

    I hope the 99% of WOS readers who never comment take good note of what you said there, and that some of them will summon the courage to acknowledge it.

    Some indy supporters dislike WOS because they cannot dissociate the ‘brand’ from the personality of Rev Stuart Campbell.

    I’m not the only long-standing supporter of WOS who doesn’t give much of a fuck what Rev Stu thinks about, well anything really – so long as he continues to do the job which the Scottsh MSM has never ever EVER done, I’ll support him.

    An important part of what he does is give people the information to do what you’ve done.

    So, more power: to you for providing personal testimony; to Rev Stu for making this place a real thing; tae aw the rest ay us for building WOS, keeping it going by debating, crowdfunding, making actual real-life social networks etc.

    Tomorrow, Edinburgh…

    Could anyone have foreseen such a happening, even a decade ago?


  128. CameronB Brodie says:

    Sorry, I was thought you’re pro union.

    Yes, SNP voters who want to Brexit align themselves with contemporary English nationalism.

    Scottish political culture is a very difficult environment to comprehend, even to those who have a specialist training. There has been a hostile environment in Britain towards the European project, ever since we joined. How do you expect Joe Soap to get his head around it all, particularly given the partisan media environment we all have to endure?

  129. CameronB Brodie says:

    please see above

  130. Jock McDonnell says:

    Anyone asked Faisal Islam on twitter why it took several weeks for London media types to pick up on the Court of Session reference to the ECJ ?

    It could just be the usual dismissive attitude toward Scottish affairs – but I suspect it was rather more contrived.

  131. Robert Peffers says:

    @HYUFD says: 5 October, 2018 at 9:43 pm:

    Q … are you suggesting London should therefore become a Singapore style city state?”

    London, (The City of), has been a city state for a great deal longer than Singapore, HYUFD. Have you any idea who and what the, “Remembrancer”, is?

    ” … There are more people in London than the whole of Scotland after all.”

    Yes and there are more people in London on benefits than in the rest of the United Kingdom and more unemployed people in London than in the rest of the United Kingdom, and more per capita funding too.

    As usual you are blethering utter pish!

  132. HYUFD says:

    Collie Trump is half Scottish

  133. HYUFD says:

    Robert Peffers The City of London is just run by the corporation of London, basically a glorified local authority. Greater London though has a population of 8 million people and in GDP per terms Greater London alone would be in the top 25 largest economies in the world. More tax revenue is also raised from London than anywhere else in the UK

  134. CameronB Brodie says:

    The Corporation of the City of London has direct influence on the content of Bills which go before Parliament, a situation which is not consistent with democratic rule-of-law. The Corporation of the City of London is not bound by the laws of either Scotland or England. London is reckoned to be the world capital for money laundering, shell companies and the like.

  135. Clootie says:

    What kind of idiot describes someone as “half Scottish”….I know – HYFUD.

  136. Dr Jim says:

    Is my Scottish Doctors for Independence flag divisive then

  137. Cactus says:

    Inna Black Bull bar, by ra station.

    Come on in and join us like.

    L7 is playing, again.

    Love like xx.

  138. Clootie says:

    …San Marino has one of the highest GDPs per population HYFUD but mainly based on tourism. The London economy is based on gambling…is that your measure of success? What about welfare, social inclusion, happiness, health etc etc….are you just another greedy Tory?

  139. Robert Peffers says:

    @HYUFD says: 5 October, 2018 at 10:34 pm:

    ” … Collie Trump is half Scottish”

    And why is that relevant to anything, HYUFD?

    Apparently so is the Queen of England half Scottish.

    Queen Elizabeth The Queen Mother, was born Elizabeth Bowes Lyon, and was the mother of Elizabeth Regina the Queen of England

    Claude Bowes-Lyon, 14th Earl of Strathmore and Kinghorne, (1855–1944) was a landowner, and the father of Queen Elizabeth The Queen Mother – but so what?

    As Elizabeth Regina the Queen of England she is legally sovereign in the three countries of the Kingdom of England but as Elizabeth Regina Queen of Scots she is not legally sovereign in Scotland as that legal sovereignty is legally held by the sovereign people of Scotland as the Westminster Government recently conceded in the Supreme Court by not contesting the Scottish Claim of Right in that court.

    Thus when we, a majority of the legally sovereign people of Scotland, declare that the united Kingdom is over – then it is over.

    Watch the AUOB organised march tomorrow through Edinburgh and gauge for yourself just how that claim of right is strong in the hearts of the legally sovereign people of Scotland, HYUFD.

    We may indeed already be in a majority. I can’t say I’ve witnessed anything more than a wee group of anti-indy people with the same courage of their convictions gathered anywhere in Scotland – can you?

  140. HYUFD says:

    Clootie Trump’s mother was born and raised in Stornoway in the Western Isles, he is therefore half Scottish by blood

  141. HYUFD says:

    Or more to the point the Isle of Lewis

  142. Thepnr says:

    Time for a musical interlude, helps calm the nerves so it does being both colourful and well, mellow haha.

    My current favourite version of this song.

    I have to dedicate it to someone so it’s for you Bob Mack and Ian Brotherhood for the great posts. Hope you like it.

    I’m starting early, just getting in the mood ken! We’ll all be singing tomorrow on the march to Holyrood Park.

  143. Dr Jim says:

    Let me understand this then, a town in another country is big and has a lot of people so Scotland which is another country cannot be Independent

    Reductio ad Infinitum, Absurdum redundum

    The British Nationalist argument since they ever were allowed to argue never changes which brings to mind another phrase


  144. Robert Peffers says:

    Just though I’d leave this here for information for anyone interested:-

  145. CameronB Brodie says:

    And you appear to be part turnip. Do us a favour, say goodnight.

  146. HYUFD says:

    Clootie London is also the home of the largest IT industry in the UK, the largest creative arts and media sector in the UK, the most company HQs in the UK, one of the largest legal services sectors in the world, the most restaurants and hotels and shops in the UK and several airports. To say London is nothing more than financial services and the City of London is absurd

  147. Footsoldier says:

    Traffic Scotland – Events, no mention of AUOB in Edinburgh.

    Another public body under the control of Scottish Government as are HES.

    Does the Scottish Government have any smeddum? Show some mettle!

  148. stewartb says:

    Bob Mack @ 9:02 pm

    Great post – many thanks.

    This part in particular really resonates: “Many of us WERE where they ARE. We have voted Labour or whatever much of our lives. We know how you think and why you think it. We have family who are Unionist. We have family who died for this country in war and conflict.”

    And we have come to the conclusion after a great deal of thought and a lived experience that we are decidedly NOT ‘Better Together’ and that ‘UK OK’ is far, far from being good enough for us, our family and friends – and especially not for our legacy to the younger ones. (And candidly, just ‘OK’ should not be good enough for anyone in the present UK – or anywhere!)

    And now when they decide the best thing to do is to ‘Yawn’ in the face of our movement and its efforts on behalf of our fellow citizens we know how low our opponents have descended. How much further down will they go?

  149. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    Re the march and rally tomorrow.
    There is a very important issue here.
    We live we are told in a democracy.
    So how has the notion that legitimate and non violent political events are in any way unacceptable been allowed to develop.

    Or is it only “disloyal” independence sentiment that is unacceptable.
    And we don’t live in a democracy.

  150. ScottieDog says:

    “More tax revenue is also raised from London than anywhere else in the UK”

    Does tax create new money or recycle existing money?

    Yes it was rhetorical. Try playing monopoly where everyone is taxed first and see how long the games lasts.

    Money has to exist before it is taxed. London is wealthy simply because of govt policy and govt funding.

  151. HYUFD says:

    Robert Peffers If you get more than 2,001,926 people on your pro indy march tomorrow then you may have a point, as that is the number of Scots who voted No to independence and to stay in the UK in 2014. If not, you won’t!

  152. HYUFD says:

    ScottieDogg London is a net contributor to the Treasury, London would actually be wealthier if it did not receive any public subsidy and paid no tax, in contrast to most of the UK

  153. yesindyref2 says:


  154. Liam says:

    Bob Mack said:
    5 October, 2018 at 9:02 pm

    I sometimes think the Unionists who post on here think they are influencing how we think. They forget one very important fact.

    Many of us WERE where they ARE. We have voted Labour or whatever much of our lives. We know how you think and why you think it.We have family who are Unionist.We have family who died for this country in war and conflict.

    In other words,we have shared your experiences of the UK and found it wanting. It is requiring change, no matter what the risks or challenges.

    Which is why – to get wildly Off Topic for a moment – is why we should welcome Kezia Dugdale to the fold – if and when she finally works out that that is where she wants to be.

    I’m sad I’ll not going to be at the Big March tomorrow but I’ll be in Inverness celebrating their first Pride for a couple of decades and trying not to wave a rainbow flag in too threatening a manner

  155. Footsoldier says:

    You will find that many of those who run HES form part of the quango cabal doing the rounds of various public bodies as they swop roles from time to time.

  156. CameronB Brodie says:

    yiddle i po

  157. Cubby says:

    HYUFD = half Britnat + half imbecile

  158. Eckle Fechan says:

    I’ve driven 8 hrs from our friends in the south for the AUOB gig tomorrow. My first. I’ll be up early to visit my Dad’s ‘resting’ place up on the hill first.

    Glad to see the forecast is favourable too, on all fronts. Pishin across the South East apparently.

    The Tide Is Turning.

    Alba gu bràth.

  159. Phronesis says:

    ‘The poverty rate in London remains significantly higher than the rest of England, where 21% of people are in poverty. The high cost of housing in London is the main factor explaining London’s higher poverty rate…London’s high housing costs and reductions in Local Housing Allowance (housing benefit for the private rented sector), the benefit cap, and the bedroom tax have led to a significant reduction in income for many low-income households in London (both working and not working)…

    These welfare changes are likely to be a key driver of the increase in the number of people experiencing deeper poverty…the proportion of people whose household income is 50% or less (rather than 60%) of median income and the proportion of people whose income is below the level the public believes is necessary to participate fully in society (the Minimum Income Standard) have increased over the past five years. Further welfare changes, such as reduced work allowances under Universal Credit, and limiting support to two children, are likely to drive even more Londoners into deeper poverty in future’

    Increasing inequality in income and wealth is associated with increasing inequality in health. London’s economic model is not for Scotland.

    Tomorrow’s march is a very important day for democracy and uniting all in the campaign for an Indy Scotland.

  160. cynicalHighlander says:

    HYUFD that is because it has been designed politically by Westminster in creating that situation nothing more.

  161. Thepnr says:

    Who left the back door open and let the troll wander in?

    There’s a right stink in this room. Others choosing to add to the stink doesn’t help either in refreshing the atmosphere.

  162. Cubby says:

    It’s not impossible that the march in Edinburgh could be the last independence march ever needed.

    Stranger things have happened.

    Here’s hoping.

  163. HYUFD says:

    Phronesis Universal Credit will ensure you do not lose all your benefits working more than 16 hours a week.

    As I also posted earlier according to Opinium only 5% of Scots have a positive, view of Communism, 71% have a negative view of it. Only 29% of Scots have a positive view even of Corbynite Socialism, with 43% having a negative view. In fact London has a higher percentage of socialist and communist supporters than Scotland, though admittedly London has more capitalism supporters than Scotland too

  164. yesindyref2 says:


  165. Robert Peffers says:

    @HYUFD says: 5 October, 2018 at 10:38 pm:

    ” … Robert Peffers The City of London is just run by the corporation of London, basically a glorified local authority.”

    Think again, HYUFD.

    ” … Greater London though has a population of 8 million people and in GDP per terms Greater London alone would be in the top 25 largest economies in the world. More tax revenue is also raised from London than anywhere else in the UK.”

    Utter crap. In the first place you seem unaware that The City of London And the City of Westminster are quite different from all other London Boroughs. You never answered the question about the Remembrancer either. Into the bargain what you claim as the earnings of, “Greater London”, is crap too. For a start the way the books are cooked such things as the oil & gas revenues out of Scottish territorial waters are counted as London earned revenues but up to 98% of it comes from Scottish waters.

    Then we have the many taxes and duties gathered from the entire United Kingdom that are recorded as London revenues because companies have either head offices in London but do not produce anything except their accounts in head Offices in London.

    A long time ago, when Dunfermline FC was a top Scottish team, I was doing some research on Scottish Companies with Registered Head Offices in London. That means they paid their tax as if they were a London Club. However I discovered they had a Registered head office in London. It was, like so many others, an accommodation address and shared by God Knows how many other Registered companies.

    These Accommodation Addresses provide a service with a P.O.Box number that they forward the mail, telephone & email from to their customers. Last Time I checked anyone could register as a Company with such people for less than £10.

    Then we have the scam where the UK records as Exports all goods that leave from that UK country by the port or airport the goods leave the UK from – regardless of where the produce is grown or the product made. For Example Diageo is the largest Producer of Scotch Whisky and over 70% of the UK’s Gin is also made in Scotland and all of it is recorded as English Exports by the Westminster Establishment.

    Not to mention the scam of the National Grid connection charges that charges more per kilowatt of power being added to the national grid according to how far the generator is from London but also subsidises those generators in and Around London.

    Yet here is a numptie like you claiming these are all earned by Londoners. Get it through your head that the clock has been ticking down the time for the London thieves for some time now.

    “Come in Number One Your time is up.”. Tick! Tick! Tock! BOOM!

    Your days of plenty are almost over now – get used to the real austerity winging its way towards you.

  166. HYUFD says:


    London was one of only 3 UK regions where tax receipts given exceeded public spending received, the others were the South East and East of England.

  167. HYUFD says:

    Robert Peffers The oil revenues from North Sea oil collapsed by 97% from 2015 to 2016.

    Yes some businesses are HQd in London, exports from ports though will be mainly outside London.

    London is the largest UK centre for media, communications, IT, advertising, legal and financial services, retail etc. While it also has plenty of top research universities of its own like UCL, Imperial and King’s College London

  168. Thepnr says:

    This place is absolutely honking now.

    Any female Wingers wanting to meet a nice failed wanne be Tory councillor that goes by the name of HYUFD, then now’s your chance.

    I fancied him myself but it’s a woman he needs(obvious really).

  169. yesindyref2 says:

    Article on the Herald about the march, and you should see the comments. One regular is advocating “mounted police horses” disturbing the picnic gathering. It’s deeply disturbing such violent hatred lurks beneath the surface of some posters.

  170. Cactus says:

    Gid morning HY, ye comin tae Edinburgh like fuckin’ like

    Ah’ve no even started yet, gig day.

    One is here.

    Ahm in The Joker Bar…

    LOVE the fuck.

    Suits me.

    Love U

  171. CameronB Brodie says:

    Do you support the principle of universal human rights and the rule-of-law?

  172. CameronB Brodie says:

    I’m sure, like myself, you had better things to do on a Friday evening, when in your mid-thirties. Especially if looking for the special someone. 😉


  173. Cactus says:

    One is on da move dans Edinburgh.

    Fuckin fuck RP.

    Look out!


  174. Elmac says:

    I follow Wings on a daily basis but only comment occasionally , usually when my ire is aroused as it is now. Trolls are normally a mild irritation at worst but lately one particular troll has been attempting to sabotage every thread with a barrage of nonsense and outright lies. In all probability this is the work of several employees of the UK government’s dirty tricks department posing as a single individual and working in shifts.

    Scrolling on by is good advice re trolls but the current level of pollution is affecting the quality of debate. Time to pull the rug out from under them and block their rubbish. No doubt they will assume a new persona and try again. I would not wish to see dissenting views suppressed, and it’s not my blog, but surely when it becomes apparent that there is a 5th columnist at work they should be promptly blocked.

  175. HYUFD says:

    Thepnr I have warned you about this several times before, if you continue to publish my personal data across this website without my express consent you will be in clear breach of GDPR and by your actions this website will be breaking the law.

  176. HYUFD says:

    Cactus No I will be canvassing for the Tories

  177. Cactus says:

    Un is HOME in an guest Edinburgh HOME.

    Fuck um, strike, uk whit.



    What do you say?

  178. HYUFD says:

    CamweronBBrodie What has that got to do with anything and no I am not an anarchist

  179. Dr Jim says:


    Call the burn ward

  180. smithie says:

    Had to laugh at the tong and ying tang comments guys…took me back a few decades lolz.

    The futility of debating with yoons.

  181. HYUFD says:

    Elmac I can assure you I am not operating from MI5 HQ in Vauxhall but from my own flat, if you dislike the occasional Unionist counter argument (and remember 55% of Scots did vote for the Union in 2014) and wish to make this site simply a cybernat echo chamber then that is up to you!

  182. Cactus says:

    Don’t give a fluck.

    GO Edinburgh.

    WE are here.

  183. Molly says:

    Elmac – well said

  184. Cactus says:

    Make some noise today Scotland.

    Edinburgh kens…

    0 days to go.

    Ye gaun?

  185. Big Phil says:

    The Fud has tae go , seriously. enough is enough. Rev if yer hammers are away then can i kick the ersehole in the baws . FFS

  186. Artyhetty says:


    Yep, London, Lundun, since the end of empire, it’s all built on the back of the rUK especially and most recently in fact, Scotland. Let’s not mention the black black oil though eh.

    Lundon is not the centre of the world, it’s a cesspit. There are many many great cities in the world, Lundon is not one of them. It’s full of stolen goods from countries that the English plundered, murderously, from around the globe, and full of corruption, including in the halls of WM.

    Scotland is a great country and deserves to throw off the shackles of the last of the British Nationalist empire once and for all. The Britnats suck the life off of Scotland like parasites.

    See you all at independence for Scotland the march and rally everyone!

  187. Ghillie says:

    Hey Cactus! Will be looking out for your distinctive hat in the crowds =)

    So excited!

    Will there be a Wings flag to guide us to old friends?

    What a wonderful day to say hallo to all around us!

    Big welcome too, especially to folk who have traveled far to march today for Scotland’s Independence 🙂

    Safe journeys =)

  188. Artyhetty says:

    re; Thepner@12.27am

    That link makes sense, oh dear.

  189. K1 says:

    ‘I have warned you about this several times before’

    When? Link?

    Your ‘handle’ made it easy to find out who you are Simon, if you’d wanted to remain ‘anonymous’, why did you come to the site with your ‘not difficult’ to search for ‘handle’? All of your information is in the public domain, you ‘expressly published’ your own details?

    Don’t threaten us or this site…laddie…you wanted to be known, you are after all a wee chaser of fame and have a mighty high opinion of yersel’ sonny Jim.

  190. Cactus says:

    Hey Ghillie ~

    Aye love you…

    Et aye Love Scotland.

    Just like you.

    Ahm in bonnie company.

    Ra now.

    Mornin’ Rev…

    Hey Chris.

  191. Hamish100 says:

    Fud 55% of Scots did not vote No. Some were Welsh northern irish English and others. Get yir facts right.If not given the vote Yes would have won but this is an inclusive country. Ruk prevented EU citizens from voting at the eu referendum.Passive racism to its core are the tories.

  192. smithie says:

    Guys, c’mon everyone is entitled to a private life…does the rev not say play the ball not the man?
    The problem is not what he says but the people that jump to the bait and answer him.
    Ignore it…….

  193. Big Phil says:

    see ye all in embra guys.MON EH WINGS.
    Is there a meeting place for wingers or do we follow the flag?

  194. Cactus says:

    Hey Ghillie…

    There is gonna be alot of Love a happenin ra morra.

    Love you babes xx

    Come Wingers.

  195. Thepnr says:


    That was a great link, cheers for the laughs 🙂

  196. Cactus says:

    £722 on the Bully…

    Guest tv.

    In one…


  197. Cactus says:

    Seventeen wae yer 1st throw Bullseye like…

    You have won a kitchen.

    Adverts time.

    Yee har!

  198. HYUFD says:

    Artyhetty London is along with New York city one of the two global A++ cities

  199. HYUFD says:

    K1 I am not heading down the Kezia Dugdale route but technically under GDPR/DPA 2018 you need express consent to publish or process personal data on a website regardless of where it has been posted before unless for personal or household purposes which is not the case here. I am only here to make the occasional Unionist comment I am hardly seeking fame

  200. HYUFD says:

    Hamish100 So what, some Scots now live in England and back the Union and were denied a vote as they no longer reside in Scotland. The 2014 referendum electorate was restricted to those living in Scotland regardless of where they originated

  201. Thepnr says:

    “Thepnr I have warned you about this several times before, if you continue to publish my personal data across this website without my express consent you will be in clear breach of GDPR and by your actions this website will be breaking the law.”

    You walk in here and take a dump on the carpet of the most vocal of Scottish Independence supporters websites and think there would be no comeback?

    You describe yourself as an “Intellectual” with a masters degree yet know fuck all about Scotland, it’s history or it’s people.

    You think I give a shit about your threats over GDPR?

    Hahahahaha You’re a a clown and guess what buddy, tonight you have proven that beyond all reasonable doubt. Shame you won’t make it tomorrow since you’re washing the hair you have left.

    Mind tune in though to your favourite channel the BBC so as to be sure you don’t miss a minute. Half of Scotland at least no longer cares what you think so here’s some kind advise.

    Stop bothering to tell US how great London is. We couldn’t give a shit.

  202. Cactus says:

    Lovin it in da big city!

    Aye am here with Bob, Liz g and Ruglonian…

    We are here, more tae cum…

    Half 2 like, XI / X / MMXVIII.


    Is NOW.

  203. Cactus says:

    Eh, that is… VI / X / MMXVIII.

    It is not even eleven.

    Tis NOW.

  204. North chiel says:

    “ Artyhetty@ 0125 am “, I don’t imagine that Hyufd” will be in attendance tomorrow . Which is such a pity as he would be unable to sample our world famous Scottish hospitality , and enjoy the delights of our world heritage internationally renowned wonderful capital city of Edinburgh. Travel “ broadens the mind” Hyufd and you don’t even require a passport to visit , and the wonderful Scottish fresh air is entirely FOC !

  205. Cactus says:

    Sleepy thyme…

    Take it away nightshift.

    Ahm still up.

  206. K1 says:

    ‘make the occasional Unionist comment’

    You Tory liars do it so proficiently and with such ease eh…occasional is it?

    You don’t like us knowing your name and all the details you have published on line about yourself and now you seek to downplay your desperate need to be ‘known’ by stating that you only make ‘occasional’ comments on here?

    Hardeefuckinghar…you are a clownmuppetedwannabelittleenglanderwihugebigdollopingdosesofegocentricselfservingpishtaematch.

    You came on here and demanded attention from the go get. A stirring little wannabe wi time on his hands…taking over entire threads, but typical of your ilk…you have the brass neck to claim ‘occasional’ comments when challenged about your desperate need to be a somebody?

    Go try the council elections show trials again Simon, your’e as transparent as a clear stream of pish…sonny jim.

  207. Achnababan says:

    Is Dunc a real person?

  208. K1 says:

    Lest we forget:

    2 September, 2018 at 5:24 pm

    ‘I came here to press the Unionist case hard and take on the Nationalists’


    And you now claim, you are ‘hardly seeking fame’ as well as falsely claiming that you only ‘make the ‘occasional’…comment’?


  209. Liz g says:

    K1 @ 4.23
    Ha Ha… press the Union Case..
    Till Simon can’t stay anonymous…. oh my giddy aunt….
    The Unionist Case that’s so strong that it can’t be loud and proud..
    But must stay snivelling behind a dubious interpretation of the Law.

    Typical just Typical..
    The Union cannot be defended out in the open,it must hide and misdirect..
    A shit Union that’s had its day really…what say you K1?

  210. Robert Louis says:

    I see the 500 mile walkers were forced to leave the grounds of Linlithgow palace as well, by who you ask??? By the British Nationalist placemen in HES.

    These people are employed by the current Scottish Government, It needs sorted Nicola. How can it be that people are asked to remove the saltire in order to enter Linlithgow palace GROUNDS, FFS. This is seriously out of order.

    Might I suggest that if visiting any such sites in future, we all ensure we wear saltire and pro independence badges.

    These people at HES have shown their true colours. Hiding behind ‘pretendy’ rules, about political events or flags, yet desperately keen to host pro Britain events and fly the colonial English union jack – a flag which many, many people in Scotland and from around the world find utterly offensive.

    Up here in Scotland, the foolish, poorly educated British nationalist serfs of English colonial rule can’t wait to hoist the English colonial union jack.

    Get it sorted Nicola. Get it freaking well sorted. Not acceptable. These people need sacked ASAP.

  211. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    I’d be inclined to be gentle with HYUFD as he knows absolutely hee haw about Scotland and is talking from the South Of England echo chamber where he has swallowed the unionist guff which is uncontested in all the media.

    Down there the Tory media deceives itself by believing its own spin about Scotland – a cardinal political error.
    I mean they actually won the last election in Scotland (with 13 seats out of 59) and Ruth Davidson is hugely respected among us (don’t laugh out loud).

  212. Petra says:

    I thought I was on the Rev Stu’s Wings site. Seems I got it wrong. Simon not so simple after all. Making a mug of this site and many people on it.

  213. Naina Tal says:

    Robert Louis: Regarding the 500 mile marchers.
    After the Stirling Castle episode I thought the British Nationalist organisation HES had ambushed the marchers,
    i.e. they were actually lying in wait for the marchers. After Linlithgow, I’m totally convinced!

    Predictive text keeps changing “Stirling” to “stifling”. On this occasion I think the predictive text might have the rights of it.

  214. Dorothy Devine says:

    I wish I had not visited the Herald – the once intelligent paper which is now a deceitful ,inciting rag.

    I found utterly abhorrent , unthinking comments below the line , such as I would expect from spiteful , angry teenagers – where have all the rational intelligent commentators gone ? Or do they account for the 7 million quid of losses?

    Don’t visit the site as it will only disgust you.

  215. ScottieDog says:

    “ScottieDogg London is a net contributor to the Treasury, London would actually be wealthier if it did not receive any public subsidy and paid no tax, in contrast to most of the UK”

    You keep making statements without being able to substantiate them. You didn’t address my point – money has to be issued before it can be taxed. That fact blows your silly little axiom out the water.

    London doesn’t produce wealth it creates debt.

    Of course it got public subsidy FFS. Check the national debt in 2005 v 2009. The finance sector costs the economy more than any other.

    Aggregate spending = aggregate income. Income is then taxed.

  216. Lenny Hartley says:

    Robert Peffers @1205 regarding Scottish Companies registered in London (and Elseswhere in England) if the Aberdeen based US company I worked for is anything to go by they changd their registered address from Edinburgh to One of our small offices in Great Yarmouth when the Scottish Parliament was set up , this was due to the 3 p in the pound tax raising powers, I was told they were insuring against potential higher business taxes in Scotland.
    Offcourse in an Indy Scotland they would all have to pay there fair share of taxes and not take advantage of the current lax tax regime for companies, dont think we ever paid much tax over the years, Every March when it was known what the annual profit would be, an invoice was received from Corporate HQ in the States for Management Charges.
    incredibly each year these “Management Charges” almost matched the profit thereby reducing our tax exposure by a significant amount.

  217. Fred says:

    @ Dave, what we have in this country has been hard fought for & hard won, from the Martyrs of 1820 to the present. No country with a House of Lords can call itself a democracy, Britain has never been a democracy despite the hype. Off oot the door. FREEDOM!

  218. HYUFD says:

    Thepnr Trying to intimidate anybody who disagrees with you will not work with me

  219. HYUFD says:

    North Chiel I do an annual training session in the Edinburgh office of the organisation I work for and am fully aware of the beauty and heritage of the City which of course voted 61% to stay in the UK

  220. HYUFD says:

    Robert Louis That would be the Union Jack with the Scottish cross of St Andrew represented on it?

  221. HYUFD says:

    Fred The House of Lords can only delay House of Commons Bills for a year it cannot block them entirely and is now largely made up of life peers and distinguished academics, lawyers, former business people and politicians sportspeople and people from he arts and religious leaders. Most hereditary peers were abolished in 1999

  222. Robert Peffers says:

    @HYUFD says: 6 October, 2018 at 12:18 am:

    ” … Robert Peffers The oil revenues from North Sea oil collapsed by 97% from 2015 to 2016.”

    So what? In the first place it wasn’t about North Sea Oil it was about all oil & gasAs and included the West of Shetland oil & Gas.

    Secondly the effects didn’t affect Scottish territorial oil & gas revenues because every single drop of oil and whiff of gas are accounted by Westminster as being revenues from United Kingdom, “Extra Regio”, Territories.

    Thus none of it is either classed as being Scottish earned revenue nor is any of it accrued by Scotland. There is the rather idiotic claim by Westminster that an 8.4% is guesstimated as Scottish earned revenue based upon current population estimates which, besides being totally, and criminally, dishonest as the term Extra Regio is defined as meaning, “not from any recognizable territory but factually is extracted up to 98% from Scottish territorial waters and is thus not United Kingdom Extra Regio revenue.

    However, that is irrelevant because the revenue, all of it, goes directly to Westminster and not one single penny comes to Scotland. The reason for that guesstimated 8.4% is only to derive guesstimates for use in other guesstimated statistics to further claim Scottish produce and products as being United Kingdom revenue and not Scottish Revenue. The yardstick to see how that would all change upon the two United Kingdom’s partners returning to the Status Quo Ante is that up to 98% of those, so called, Extra Regio oil & Gas revenues would accrue to a Scottish Treasury immediately upon the United Kingdom disuniting.

    ” … Yes some businesses are HQd in London, exports from ports though will be mainly outside London.”

    Almost the entire Scotch Whisky is exported from Heath Row and the rest via the Chunnel.

    ” … London is the largest UK centre for media, communications, IT, advertising, legal and financial services, retail etc. While it also has plenty of top research universities of its own like UCL, Imperial and King’s College London”

    Yeah! They require all those for their propaganda and much of it will vanish when it isn’t supported by United Kingdom stolen revenues. London, outside the EU and without the Scottish revenues it steals will wither and die when its stolen lifeblood is cut off. What will London do when it is starved of fuel, power and income from outside London?

    Oil, Gas and Scotch Whisky, 70% of the former UK Gin exports, Soft Fruit and so on will immediately become Scottish. Even with the current scams operated by Westminster there is absolutely no doubt that Scotland is a net exporter of food/drink, fuel and power. England, and in particular London, are net importers of all three commodities.

    When you are a net importer as England is, you must buy those commodities you do not produce. Scotland can not only feed her own population but exports food/drink commodities and that is where the term, “net”, comes in. What foods Scotland does not produce can be imported by use of the surplus from her net exports. Same goes for Scottish Power – Scotland has been subsidising the National grid since its inception in 1946 and Scotland will have the oil & gas surpluses that are now stolen by Westminster.

    Face facts, HYUFD, the London economy has always relied upon services and there are none of those services that require natural resources as they all are services that any country can provide for itself.

    London/England economics are based upon services and government controlled tax revenues that will vanish overnight upon the United Kingdom leaving the EU and Scotland taking back her independence. The former English partner in the United Kingdom cannot exist upon the provision of services as such services need no natural resources and depend only upon the skills of individual persons who have shown all to ready to take their skills to where the highest bidder for their skills happens to be,

  223. Nana says:

    I posted this before, worth repeating this assessment of Brexit from the US embassy in London:

    Newspapers found three emails that shattered its four-year-old “one rogue reporter” defence of phone hacking. Now, in a bruising High Court hearing, claimants’ lawyers have described what they say is the corporate cover up that followed…

  224. Thepnr says:

    The suns shining, lovely day for a march 🙂

  225. Hamish100 says:

    Were the 61% all Scots or just settlers?

  226. Nana says:

    Have a great day in Edinburgh folks, take care and take lots of photographs.

  227. Alba Laddie says:

    HYFUD: So is that why you’re omnipresent on here? Can you not get a burd online?

  228. CameronB Brodie says:

    I don’t think HYUFD appreciates that from the perspective of cultural psychology, it is considered an act of racism to try to influence a culture that is not your own. IMHO, he has shown no evidence of respecting the principle of universal human rights, so deserves to be played directly. I certainly won’t hold back on the sado and I ken psychology and shit. 😉

  229. Macart says:


    Meejaland Nana. (sigh) We’re well into narrative manipulation stage on the subject of Brexit. How to polish turds? Put lippy on a pig?

    Regardless, I’d agree that both sides know what they want by this point. It’s a matter of how it’s to be sold to the public. Once they reckon they have a narrative? That’s when you’ll see official statements and that’s when others can respond in equally official manner.

    We’ve long since been aware that democracy has been used by the less ethical elements of the political class to undermine itself. Just as we’ve long since been aware of the relationship between government and the media.

    The insulting bit, is that they believe everyone isn’t paying attention. (sighs again)

  230. Nana says:

    Morning Macart

    Yep you are right on all points. I’m seeing a lot of “the big bad EU made us leave” articles coming along now. Ain’t it the way of the coward Sam, blame the other guy for leaving crap all over the place.

    As you’ve mentioned turds, here’s Donald


  231. HYUFD says:

    CameronB Brodie Utter rubbish. I myself have a passport which says on it ‘United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland’ on it, nor am I purely English, I have part Huguenot and Welsh blood too going back through the generations.

    Of course even Scots by blood going back generations were denied a vote in the 2014 independence referendum if they happened to live in England, the franchise was based on residence in Scotland. Or are you really suggesting the only people able to comment on Scotland’s place in the Union and the issue of Scottish independence are those who were born in Scotland and have Scottish ancestry going back hundreds of years and who are DNA tested to test they are ‘ethnically’ Scottish. If you want to have a nation based solely on that criteria you can hardly throw out allegations of racism to others!

  232. Dorothy Devine says:

    Why do some of you continue to engage with the pillock?
    Please , please scroll on by!

    Have a wonderful march , sorry I can’t be there , did some nasty gardening yesterday and the gardening did something nasty back

  233. HYUFD says:

    RobertPeffers Even if all oil revenues went to Scotland it does not change the fact global oil prices are in severe decline. The Chunnel is not in London.

    You say only London is reliant on services? Scotland is too, 75% of the Scottish economy is based on services and just 1% of the Scottish economy is agriculture and just 18% production ie less than a fifth of the Scottish economy is food and manufacturing production. So much for Scotland being such a vastly more self sufficient producer of food and raw materials compared to England!

    Plus of course London receives no net public subsidy from the UK exchequer unlike Scotland, London can survive quite easily without any subsidy. Londoners provide £3070 more in tax revenues than they receive in public spending. Scots by contrast receive £2830 more in public spending subsidy than they provide in tax revenues. Only people in the North West and North East of England, Wales and Northern Ireland receive more net public subsidy in the UK than Scots do

  234. Tam fae somewhere says:

    Hope the March goes well.

    Wish I could be there but circumstances mean I can’t.

    Wave a saltire for me!

  235. Shinty says:

    Have a great day folks, lovely day for it.

  236. Benhope says:

    For those who do Twitter and Facebook can we have a campaign to stop Paul Gascoigne being inducted into the Scottish Football hall of fame.Fan power worked to re-arrange the League Cup semi-finals.Can we do the same to overturn this ill-advised decision by the out of touch powers that be.

  237. Gary45% says:

    HiFUD@12.47 or HolaFUD
    Here in Spain, having just shown some Spanish friends your latest “oracle” wisdom. Even they think that you are a FUD.
    Had the pleasure of meeting a Catalan Indy supporter who we gave a Yes flag to in May, proudly hanging from the front of his house along with Catalan flag and massive yellow ribbon.
    Mes Bo de fer.

  238. Nana says:

    Ahead of the SNP conference tomorrow, here’s a quick message from Nicola Sturgeon.

    SNP could back second Brexit referendum tied to independence vote

    Quick! Someone tell Theresa and Liam Fox, they’ll buy it

  239. Mike says:


    In the last year alone Oil prices have gone from $50 to $67 up from the previous year where they were sitting below $30 so another stupid lie to add to the many you post on these threads.
    The trend of oil prices is up. in the 70s they usually sat below $20. The Scottish economy is mostly made up of energy food and drinks industry textiles Information Technology Electronics and telecoms so you lied about the reliance and percentage of the service industry as well.

  240. Mike says:


    And of course you promote the debunked subsidy lie as well. Scotlands revenues are now in excess of 60 billion 60 to 65% of which is handed to the UK treasury in return we get back around 22 to 26 billion via Barnett PROVING the subsidy is from Scotland to London.

  241. North chiel says:

    Hyufyd @0940 , the last vote held in Holyrood Edinburgh, Scotland returned a majority for Independence 2016 in a “ proportional vote” . That’s the only vote that matters .

  242. CameronB Brodie says:

    “Utter rubbish”

    Which part, what’s your frame of reference? Those who are registered to vote in Scotland. Are you registered to vote in Scotland, or are you simply a cultural chauvinist?

    You failed to indicate whether you support the principle of universal rights. I’ll take that as a no then, you do not support universal human rights.

  243. CameronB Brodie says:

    Culture has a significant influence on how we view the world, resulting in a social cognition of reality. Your narrative is empiricist in nature and utilitarian in outlook, so portrays only a shallow representation of the world. Your bias denies any significance to Scottish culture and the human right of Scots to an identity of their choosing? Are you a Tory by any chance?

    Why Should We All Be Cultural Psychologists? Lessons from the Study of Social Cognition


    I call the attention of psychologists to the pivotal role of cultural psychology in extending and enriching research programs. I argue that it is not enough to simply acknowledge the importance of culture, and urge psychologists to practice cultural psychology in their research. I deconstruct five assumptions about cultural psychology that seriously undermine its contribution to the building of a true psychological science, including that cultural psychology 1) is only about finding group differences; 2) does not care about group similarities; 3) only concerns group-level analysis; 4) is irrelevant to basic psychological processes; and 5) is only to confirm the generalizability of theories.

    I discuss how cultural psychology can provide unique insights into psychological processes and further equip researchers with additional tools to understand human behavior. Drawing lessons from the 20 years of cultural research that my colleagues and I have done on the development of social cognition, including autobiographical memory, future thinking, self, and emotion knowledge, I demonstrate that incorporating cultural psychology into a research program is not only necessary but also feasible.

    Keywords: culture, cultural psychology, cultural psychologist, social cognition, assumptions, biases

    Understanding the Influence of Cross Cultural Psychology on Humans

    The Focus of Cross Cultural Psychology
    Looking at How Cultural Differences Influence Human Behavior

    P.S. What’s your frame of reference?

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