Wings Over Scotland

Nice one, Phantom.

Fabulous stuff.

Take that, Cat.

Excellent. The contradictions at the core of the Labour party, wholesale, should concern all who support and follow them. It is why they are not in power at WM. Labour in Scotland are not autonomous, they do and will follow orders and do and will continue to deny Scotland exercising the democratic right to self determination.

I don’t think for one moment that the Labour party are not aware of what they are doing in terms of stoking up British nationalism, and in terms of demonising the SNP, in their attempts to portray them and their members as well as those who support Scottish independence, as ethnic nationalists.

Labour are an establishment centre right wing party, who condone austerity being foisted on the poorest, most vulnerable people in our society.

They ditched socialism a long time ago. England needs a new left of centre, socially responsible, economically competent, internationalist, political party. Labour are too joined at the hip to the tories now, terrified to be seen to be left wing. It won’t happen, so they are stuck with a dangerously ineffective so called opposition, and a very right wing, insular tory party for the foreseeable future.

Oohhh Corbyn. Oh indeed. Shame you were so adamant that you would not allign with the SNP. Turning your pretendy lefty nose up at the SNP, just exposed your Britnat, Scotland isn’t a country, North Britain is ours attitude. A disgrace and no friend of Scotland, clear as day, no contradiction there, that much is obvious, for those who care to see.

First class,usual standard from these guys.

I think they deserve a place in the Scottish media when the time comes, as well as recognition of what they have done on our behalf.
Add them to the list along with the Rev, who is indispensable to the Indy movement, there are others of course.

I’ve tweeted this to Cat Boyd this morning, asking her for her thoughts.

She’s usually very willing to give her opinion, but I suspect I won’t get a reply to this query.

Half way through …..

“Why would I put my trust in the English electorate to make the right decision on Scotland’s behalf when it’s proven time and time again it just disnae happen?”

… and that is the central issue. The English MIGHT at some point vote for a centre left government, but for decades now they have voted centre right to far right.

Even if a UK government which was more in tune with Scotland’s views were ever elected, there is absolutely no guarantee that it will be respectful and fair to Scotland, it will still be London centric. As Alan says, Labour has at its core staunch British Nationalist ideology.

There is only one way to move forward and that is independence, and it is highly unlikely Labour will ever contribute positively to that objective.

Corbyn may be a good solution for England, he offers nothing to Scotland.

At the core of Scotland’s problems lies non civic nationalism, IMO.

Sometimes it’s British Nationalism, which is what many in the Labour and LibDems parties adhere to. However, they don’t seem to recognise it, as Alan points out,

Sometimes however it is English Nationalism which has a particularly nasty streak of the aggressive superiority. Then it become Greater English nationalism and Imperialism. This is what thrives within the hard right of the Tory party and UKIP.

Then in Scotland we have that stance cringe among Proud Scots Buts. They claim to be British but deep down I suspect they are Wannabe English. They ‘aspire’ to attitudes, values, and behaviour of the English Home Counties. Among this group are the Scottish Tories. Like all Tories, they have the English nationalism of entitlement and exceptionalism.

It is amazing how a subconscious guilt complex works on the human mind.

Some of the most innately rude and insensitive types are the biggest promoters of the rules of etiquette and manners.

Some of the least tolerant and most nasty types you are ever likely to meet are Christian proselytizers. (Or other religions).

And some of the most naturally ethnically nationalistic types are Labourites.

Of course, there are also many drawn to each of those for exactly the right reasons as well.

Alan and I generally see things in much the same way. And I would not demur at all from his conclusions about Jeremy Corbyn, British Labour and their Scottish branch operation. The only thing I have a slight problem with is his reluctance to criticise those self-proclaimed Yes supporters who nonetheless voted for the British nationalist Labour Party in the 2017 UK general election.

Having assembled and presented a cogent, coherent argument that “voting for Corbyn” is totally inconsistent with the aims of Scotland’s independence movement; and of dubious utility, at best, in terms of advancing progressive politics in general, Alan then offers comfort and succour to those who did the very thing he has just put some effort into persuading us is grotesquely illogical, if not face-slappingly stupid.

Why? Why hold back? If a course of action is illogical and daft, then it follows that the people who follow that course of action are guilty of doing something daft and illogical. What purpose is served by pretending otherwise?

Alan is a nice guy. But politics isn’t known for rewarding niceness. Particularly the politics of the British state. We have to be prepared to condemn where this is appropriate. And do so in terms that leave no room for doubt or pretence about the fallacies and foolishness we are speaking against.

Of course people are entitled to vote as they please. Nobody, that I am aware of, is arguing otherwise. What would be the point in doing so? There is no way to compel anybody to vote in a particular way. Under normal circumstances, we have no way of even knowing how a person has cast their ballot. Of course people can vote in any way they want.

But if someone decides to publicly proclaim that they have voted in a particular way, they implicitly invite comment on their electoral choice. If they have voted in a way that contradicts previously declared principles, then they are perfectly legitimate targets for criticism on the grounds of hypocrisy. Although we might still opt to set aside such criticism. Particularly if we’re a ‘nice guy’.

However, if an individual appears to be trying to persuade others to emulate behaviour that undermines a dearly held principle or worthy cause, then surely we have a responsibility to speak out. We have a duty to discourage that behaviour.

Actions have consequences. If someone asserts that voting for a British nationalist party has no possible adverse implications for the cause of restoring Scotland’s independence, they are either a fool or a liar or both. I, for one, will have not the slightest compunction about saying as much.

O/T Met Allan Bissett a few times, true gent and def yesser to the core. He’s a socialist AYE in my view, but a realist also – not afraid to address big left flaws & conflict issues.

If you get a chance go and see his Shows, they say more about the Scotland we live in than any of Cat Boyd or Ross Greers output.

Seriously want to make a point and not insult anyone but Cat (and Ross) would do well to meet up with Allan Bissett and reboot their left /YES thoughts, or at least watch this film and learn something about fringe politics and the dangers of flirting with Unionism.

Allan has a clear understanding of Labour & Corbyn (no doubt about that)

Great advice here in this film.

Another Keeper. 🙂

Its a strange kind of politician who supports the right of self determination to the peoples of other countries throughout the World to become independent.

Yet he opposes and does what he can to obstruct the right to the people of one of the oldest nations in Europe to regain their independence.

As for Corbyn being a good solution for England, I
doubt it and suspect the electorate south of the
border will quickly see through him.

As the leader of the official opposition, the number of U-turns he’s already made on policies he has already announced doesn’t bode well for the future if he were to make it into No 10 downing street and finds he is unable to deliver all that he is currently promising.

Just look at what happened to Hollande’s popularity in France once he was elected and failed to deliver on what he promised the people.

Corbyn will go the same way.

Alan explains things very well but I have to disagree with him when he says labour are a left wing party. That is a pretence.
They are a right wing party with a left wing leader and the party will drag him to the right before he can drag them to the left.

Corbyn doesn’t just hold the same position as the Tories on Brexit, he also holds the same position as UKIP.

By the way, if any independence supporters are still saying we need to vote Corbyn after this they just simply need to be ignored. We are wasting energy arguing with their rubbish.

Alan Bissett has really grown in my estimation since the referendum. He does seem to be able to put into words what I often think and cannot say.

He also seems relatively uninterested in social media wars and giving an anodyne view on the Papers on Radio Shortbread so I trust him more than a few others.

Corbyn has become a vehicle for power hungry SLabbers unfortunately who will use him and his contradictory views to their own end. Talking of which, what an absolute brass neck that Monica Lennon has – the Paul Nuttall of SLab.

All my Scottish friends and relatives say they’re Scottish
All my Inglish relatives say they’re Inglish
I have Irish friends who are Irish

The only British people I hear about are all on the Telly talking about being proud to be British like it’s a Nationality or something, folk in the European Union don’t generally refer to themselves as European Unionists unless it’s for context, they say they’re French or German or Spanish or whatever because it’s who they are
Even Americans reference themselves as being “from” the US then quickly follow it up by telling you which state, because that’s generally what they’re proudest of or don’t want to be associated with another state they don’t approve of

So just who are these British? and what drives them to adopt a made up identity other than the one they had naturally at birth
Are they ashamed of their countries? or are they ashamed to say they changed Inglish Nationalism for the word British to legitimise right wing unpleasantness

When I was a youngster you never heard the word British except in reference to the armed services or politics now this Britishness has spread like the Flu and used to justify or assert all sorts of nonsense funnily enough just in the same way our American cousins have fallen victim to unpleasantness over there lately

Maybe those Amish folk have got it right when they warn their young about going out among them Inglish
(That last part was humour but it does make you think)

My Identity? I’m a musician and we all know who we are Black White Yellow Pink with green spots, as long as you can do the job you’re in the band

That’s why I’m in the SNP….same thing

Alan Bissett describes in a few minutes the reality of Jeremy Corbyn and the underlying British Nationalism running through the Labour Establishment.

Thankyou Alan,you’ve put into a few words what I’ve been thinking for a long time.

One of the best Phantom Power Films. 🙂

Breastplate says:
14 August, 2017 at 11:44 am
Alan explains things very well but I have to disagree with him when he says labour are a left wing party. That is a pretence.
They are a right wing party with a left wing leader and the party will drag him to the right before he can drag them to the left.”

And its all because England is a centre right Thatcherite country.

Its why New Labour er, got elected. Blair was the English toryboy, Brown was the canny Scotch bank manager, because they do like the canny loyal Scotch, ending boom and bust, haha.

Who was the new New Labour PM Brown’s very first special guest at No.10?
Brown welcomes Thatcher to No 10
link to news.bbc.co.uk

It only came crashing down, after City/Wall Street bankster fraudsters were finally exposed and either tax the rich or austerity, let the poorest and most vulnerable take the hit. Crash Gordo says he had no clue the City banksters had gone insane with greed but so what, New Labour were history, why take the risk.

As long as the English voting majority see their house prices rise, their pay go up, their businesses expand, they will vote centre right. And they can tune in to the BBC to be told why its the only option too.

Anyway its all worked hasn’t it, national debt and deficit’s been fixed, students pay their own uni costs, City slickers are all honest now… why vote JC anyway, must be true BBC Scotland says it is.

@heedtracker says: 14 August, 2017 at 11:14 am

” … So our imperial masters can’t even say the word, referendum.
link to archive.is
It might wind up the jocks.”

I’ve news for you, heedtracker.

No one needs worry about, “winding up The Jocks”.

We Jocks are, like those pre-electronic mechanical watches, a auto-self-winding mechanism actuated by movement and that actuating movement is the YES movement.

link to indyref2.scot GAPONSONBY wrote a very good article yesterday.

IMO this is the reality of folk like Kevin McK & RISE.
They want others to do the heavy lifting and for them to take the glory.

KMcK wrote an inaccurate article about Michelle Thompson recently and when she asked for a correction he told her .”she would get over it”
This is a woman who’s career has been ruined by the UK press.
Wonder how he would feel if it happened to him

Robert Peffers says:
14 August, 2017 at 12:45 pm
@heedtracker says: 14 August, 2017 at 11:14 am

” … So our imperial masters can’t even say the word, referendum.

Graun is an odd paper today Rab, very odd, a kind of toryboy place for shy toryboys.

Independent’s not shy of the word referendum. Although, again to be fair, the Independent is just about the only English paper to be actually and very against Brexit.

NewsUKHome News
David Miliband calls for second referendum on Brexit deal to stop UK being ‘driven off a cliff’
Former Foreign Secretary describes 2016 referendum that triggered Brexit as ‘unparalleled act of economic self-harm’

Gavin Cordon a day ago387 comments

Ofcourse the same paper is 100000% No to Scotland being allowed a ref2. That’s not going to happen, its just not British, is the cunning plan.

Great stuff. If you want Scotland to regain its ndependence don’t vote for Labour.

Really excellent video from Phantom Power.

We need these folk who formed the backbone of National Collective out on the road.

Yes groups, get together and get in touch with them and organise events featuring these folk who can speak with passion about this country as well as entertain. Even if only those with our own view of what’s best for this country came along, they hear, they talk, they can pass that energy on.

You may have read this already, but, another guy who speaks with passion and has quite a few decent ideas wrote this brilliant, inspiring article:
link to marksimonfrankland.blogspot.co.uk

Posted that too soon as oft times before.

The point about such an article being written by Carolyn Leckie is that I’m often critical of her articles even if I don’t always post a comment, as they’re often to one side, and in themselves can be divisive.

But her article is a real strong effort to be unifying, in the sense that all the disparate groups, views, visions for Independent Scotland have one thing in common, something that is strong enough to hold us all together even if we do often fall out, have angry arguments, hurtle insults, have spats, huge differences of opinions on everything under the sun, including things that are very important to us individually, or as a group.

And that’s Independence.

YES

Labour love a good war as much any Westminster gov.

Labour get another free Guardian pass today. JC’s the ex veep of CND, who will buy Trident 2, just not fire it, maybe. But this commentator thinks world war is coming, having witnessed the last one.

link to archive.is

“Britain also has nothing to be proud of. Since the Iraq war our country has been on a downward decline, as successive governments have eroded democracy, social justice and savaged the welfare state with austerity, leading us into the cul de sac of Brexit.

Like Trump, Brexit cannot be undone by liberal sanctimony – it can only be altered if the neoliberal economic model is smashed as if it were a statue of a dictator by a liberated people.
After years of Tory government, Britain is more equipped to change the course of history for the good than we were under Neville Chamberlain, when Nazism was appeased in the 1930s”

When a jpg, taken from the single copy of The National bought every day by the Unionist propaganda unit (otherwise known as BBC Scotland), an image of that article of Carolyn Leckie, arrived on the breakfast tables of assorted mixed Unionist agents, there was weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth at the upset of all their carefully laid plans, which have been brought down to nought, disappeared as though they never were, in their vain attempts to get YES at each others’ throats and parts other beers just don’t reach.

The 77th will have been choking on their imported K-rations

National nockers will have been madly looking through their comment database pulling out quote to try to discredit The National

Unionist sleepers will have woken up and gone back to bed to have nightmares

Trolls will have been caught in the sun and turned to stone

David Torrance will have been frantically looking at his well-fingered copy of the “Lexicon of Snide”

Blair MacDougall will have been checking out who ran the Tory campaign and looking for a safe seat in Australia

Ruth Davidson will have got straight on to Rightmove while emailing her acceptance of a nomination for UK Tory leader, even to those who never nominated her yet

Magnus Gardham dug out his CV and updated it for his job search in 2 years time

David Mundell did nothing

. . .

call me dave says:
14 August, 2017 at 1:28 pm
Excellent dissection by Bisset of the Labour Party North and South in the UK.

But I am taken aback that any YES Scot could have even considered voting Labour at all, and ever again.

Look at what they really are, fundamentally and look at what the independent nation state Scotland could become and achieve, shaking off parties like Labour for good.

Yes Brtinat gimp beeb Scotland’s vote SLab, SNP bad propaganda is relentless here but even so, look at what Labour really are.

How can any YES Scot even consider sanctioning Trident nukes dumped in Argyll, for giant and major wtf example.

In the event of nuke war, Faslane is ofcourse a big nuke missile target but no more or less than all other big targets, from London, Paris, Liverpool, Nottingham, Berlin, all big centres of population across Europe.

So the only reason Trident is dumped in Scotland by UK military strategists is because its too dangerous to be stored in England.

And yet we have to listen to YES Scots go, I might well vote Lab but…

The bearded hypocrite is also onto his third wife,so he is either very unreliable,a poor judge of character,and/or does’nt take Vows very seriously.

Just your bog standard Yoon really.

OT again
What a tangled web history is, but with the present as well. After this is all over and done (getting Independence) I must get back to it:

link to archive.is

If Corbyne wins a general Election, he’ll be dumped faster than a bad smell The Labour Party are not socialists just an alternative Tory party Scotland needs neither. Don’t believe any true yes supporter would vote Labour… There’s nothing there.
Faslane is the biggest nuclear target in Britain in the event of any war it will be attacked.

People in England were desperate for something to come along and ‘save’ them, they thought Jeremy Corbyn was it.

The tricky thing for Scotland is that the Scottish Government has been doing what he claims he would do. So always more difficult to do new and say you will now do this when you are already doing it and people are getting the benefits! They forget they have it.

There is a problem if Corbyn did get to be PM, apart from his own MPs being against him, in Scotland the SNP voters and Yes voters, they wouldn’t be behind the Labour Party, none of that energy wouldn’t belong to the Labour Party.

I doubt if those who go canvassing or filled the streets of Glasgow or campaigned in thousands outside the BBC in Glasgow are with him or Labour.

Unionists fail to recognise their blood and soil nationalism.

Unionists fail to see their attitudes as often marginal or even full blown fascist.

Unionists fail to accept when it comes down to abuse – verbal face to face, or written online – they are the worst perpetrators.

And to top it all, these are the very things they accuse Indy supporters of.

Denial, hypocrisy, exceptionalism … it applies to Labour Unionists as much as others.

Good analysis.

My only point would be that, at the end, he did contradict himself by saying that the geographic integrity of the UK appears to be paramount for Labour, but also that they are willing to let Northern Ireland re-unify with the Republic.

The most telling bit is the bit about Labour using your vote as proof of support for Unionism. We can only vote once, with no conditions attached (ie, I’m voting for you, but only to keep Tories out, or whatever), so until there is a credible alternative, Yes voters MUST vote SNP at every possible opportunity until Independence, then vote according to their particular policy preferences after that.

So, a vote for Labour… is a vote for Unionism.

The SNP Scottish Govt mandate for an indyref comes from their 2016 MSP manifesto:

“We believe that the Scottish Parliament should have the right to hold another referendum…if there is a significant and material change in the circumstances that prevailed in 2014, such as Scotland being taken out of the EU against our will.”

However:

Angus Robertson, March 2017 said:

..all of our efforts are currently focused is trying to convince the UK government to come to a compromise agreement protecting Scotland’s place in Europe,” he said.

“If that road runs out and if we have to have that referendum, we will be turning our attention to making sure that we are making the case publicly, intellectually and in every other way so people understand the choice of a hard Tory Brexit Britain or a Scotland able to maintain its relations with the rest of Europe.”

So, the SNP were elected on a mandate that the Scottish Parliament should have the right to hold an indyref if Scotland is leaving the EU. Scotland is leaving the EU.

The Scottish Parliament voted for indyref. But Angus Robertson says all their efforts are focused on a compromise to keep UK Scotland (in the Single Market) so there will be no need for an indyref.

That is a clear betrayal of the SNP manifesto mandate of an indyref if Scotland is taken out the EU – not the Single Market – the EU, against Scotland’s democratic will.
——————————————————————–

But I would forgive that and vote for an SNP that explained circumstances have moved on and it’s no longer the most sensible strategy:

The Supreme Court and UK Govt’s position on devolved powers and the Sewel Convention have shown the whole devolution settlement to be worthless.

Therefore, the SNP will no longer seek a mandate to administer a devolved government subservient to WM.

At the next election, SNP politicians will seek a mandate to declare Holyrood the sovereign parliament for Scotland’s people. With parliamentary sovereignty, Holyrood shall be empowered to decide Scotland’s constitutional matters, such as, which powers it will administer – until such time as a majority of the elected parliamentary representatives of the people of Scotland decide Scotland should no longer be part of a United Kingdom.

If the UK Govt and WM do not legislate to recognise this self-determination in an acceptable manner and timescale to the Scottish Parliament, SNP politicians will lead a parliamentary vote on a declaration of Scottish independence.

————————————

However, the current strategy of the SNP being willing to compromise np Indyref being held, if Scotland

@velofello

I drive around mostly rural and island Scotland and have done for years on business, and blether to hundreds and probably thousands of people. I find no difference between incomers and indigenous natives when it comes to YES and NO, when I get the chance to raise Indy.

But one thing I would add to that is that I find that those who would vote YES often say they won’t vote as it’s not their place to vote, whereas NO voters would just about always vote.

This is a problem the YES movement needs to address.

You live in Scotland, you contribute to Scotland in all ways, you’re a part of Scotland, you have a complete right to vote, so please make your vote count. Whichever way you’re going to vote.

Scotland is an open Democracy.

Most blatant vote SLabour propaganda, beeb gimp style, so far today. Considering how much vote Slab propaganda BBC Scotland produce like this, you have to ask why SLab are not doing better than 3rd party in Scotland.

link to bbc.co.uk

Ministers are being urged to make Scotland a world leader in fighting “period poverty” by making sanitary products free for those who need them.

Labour MSP Monica Lennon says access to the products should be “a basic right”.

She wants schools, colleges and universities to be required to provide free items in their female toilets.”

“Diverthity!”

Fuck off fuck off fuck off.

Heedtracker – thanks for the link- I made the mistake of clicking on the comments section, Oh Christ to think there are people out there unattended and totally unsupervised , with access to a keyboard ,
This Care in the Community has went too far if this is the result, it was like the Scotsman on stilts, then again maybe that’s the point, get all comments on the BBC shut down .

Nasty devious little f/krs these Unionists.

Re strategy,

Should Scotland ask for a deal?
.. and if so, would that make us a satellite member of the EU? Or still a puppet on the UK strings.

A member state within a member state, devolved responsibility with representatives in three parliaments.

Sadly now when I go back home to Scotland,and someone is nice to me. I think is this a unionist.?.I cannot bring myself to be nice unless i know otherwise. Sorry if i offend anyone but this is my choice. I just don’t want to integrate with these anti scots people.

Last time I recall Monica Lennon putting her head above her wee desk at Holyrood was to complain that Christina McKelvie (one of the SNP’s best MSPs) had blocked her on social media.

Piggy-backing on a socially-just SG policy which BLiS_______d would never have espoused is pretty typical of sad, lost, boilerplate Lanarkshire Labour.

All given maximum exposure on BBC Scotland, my daughter tells me.

Query: it’s been a long time since I watched, so who refills the Vichy water in Jackie B’s glass?

BBC investigative journalism at its Westminster Establishment best.
Big Ben silenced for a few years for refurbishment of the tower. Obvious question completely ducked …. How much?
Original estimates to committee £4million.
Mail reporting latest figure is £60 million.
Any takers for May announcing intention to stand down on Thursday?

Dan H: d’accord, mon vieux mechant.

Ma field disnae dae graves.

Ah blame The Rev.

Famous 15. Wish I were there.

O/t Scotland should be asking Westminster and the proudscot but yoons,. IF WE are the greatest devolved wee parliament in the world,where are our broadcasting powers. After all spanish regions like catalonia have this. Wonder how many *proudscotbuts will feel when catalonians vote for indy on 1st October. “Probably those with an iq lower than room temperature,will be more interested in Britain’s got talent. . Sad ignorant people.

Dr Jim: I am reliably informed by my newsagent that readers (sic) of the Daily Heil/Express enfold their chosen paper with a copy of Spanking and Cummerbund Monthly.

Saves embarrassment all round.

Rock (28th October 2014 – And still there were none):

“Scotland’s enemy number 2 is the Labour party, enemy number 1 being the BBC.”

Independence is “stone dead” while these two exist.

Labour have always betrayed the working class and they will never change do you think if labour had been in power we would have free student fees free prescriptions free care for the elderly free hospital car parking and the council tax frozen and more no the SNP are the only party on the u.k. who have helped the working class as I have said before I was a shop steward in the shipyards on the Clyde and I never once voted labour I ran them down for the con men they are and I was laughed at by family and friends well who’s laughing now? I honestly don’t mean to be rude but to me anyone who votes labour must be mad

O/T

Just reading James Cook’s defence of the BBC’s use of the term ‘White Nationalist’ to describe the Nazis in the US.

I remember watching the Neil Oliver programme where he interviewed a white supremacist who made it very clear his allegiance was to his race, not to the US nation which he viewed as corrupted and contaminated by immigrants. He, like many of his kind, did not see himself as an immigrant or of mixed race because he could go back a few generations to Scottish or Irish colonists. The impression was that he would be happy to see the Southern states break away to form a racially pure state of white supremacy.

It seems quite naive of Cook to persist with the term.

It seems quite naive of Cook to persist with the term.

Its just another trick by beeb gimps like this, turn everything on its head.

Teresa May is just one of several Britnat tories that were the first in Washington to welcome Orange Hitler but why let fact get in the way of domestic attack propaganda like whatisface.

Telegraph News
Revealed: the ‘real’ reason why Donald Trump and Theresa May held hands – and it’s not what you think

Scottish psyche 8.50pm. Neil oliver! A piece of excrement who called Scottish nationalists ‘a cancer. Hope this c**t goes like my brother in law,and sister. And dies of it. And f**k any apologists.

I’m waiting on Pres Trump goading North Korea with,
“You just try taking out Faslane and you’ll be sorry”.

Followed by Liam Fox chipping in- “You Tell them Donald”.

How creepy is all this BBC Sentimentality over India’s Independence some 70 years ago?

The British Killed the natives in their many thousands, stole their resources, taxed them to the hilt, and brokered a partition that would displace millions and kill a million.

How dare they suggest they ever had an ounce of compassion for India’s people and air brush away British brutality.

They did a similar teary eye job on the anniversary of the Easter Rising in Ireland. Anther nation who they murdered. raped and robbed.

Anyone ever hear of India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, or Ireland asking Westminster if they would mind robbing them again?

The BBC Propaganda machine is also outraged by Trump not condemning the White Supremists, but claiming bigotry on many sides?

The BBC did exactly the same thing when Unionists, many from the Orange Order attacked peaceful Independence supporters in George Square.

They have reliable sources reporting Independence supporters sticking their heads on Unionist Boots.

I too suffer from hate, and its a hate that I will have as long as my country is suppressed and denied truth and justice by the UK elite who control the corruption that is Westminster and our Financial institutions.

So Alex Salmond’s latest show had as a special guest David Davies..the snide tory bastard…who apparently is AS’s great pal.

Well excuse me if I feel like vomiting at the photo of the two of them schmoozing…I’m sorry but I don’t get this old pals act. AS has plummeted in my estimation.All I see now is His stupid gamble with a hasty premature referendum predicated on giving away our300 year old solid sovereign position, consisting of simple majority of MPs for Indy as a basis for dissolution of the Union, for what is now a morass of a devolved clusterfuck cul de sac.

Nicola Sturgeon tweeting about Clark’s shoes is the tin hat for me. Where is the serious leadership? Disabled Scots are being robbed of their benefits; the young have to emigrate to get away from zero hour contracts and meanwhile are replaced by RUK white flight ‘No’ voters, 40,000 per year. Meanwhile, we’re still sitting here with a nuclear arsenal on our doorstep as Trump and Ruth Davidson’s doppelganger threaten the world’s very existence. Tell that Alex to your mate, the ‘next Prime Minister of the UK’.

I’ve just about had it with the ‘keep quiet’ mob on here. Meanwhile we sit here waiting for the tories to either implode or more likely negotiate a face saver that will sink Indy forever.

@ Lochside

If there hadn’t been a referendum, how long might it have been till there was a majority of MPs? What would have caused the necessary increase from the 6-12 that had been the peak for decades?

In 2012 I did think calling a referendum might turn out to be premature, but without it, I don’t see that Labour would have lost all those seats in the Central Belt. After the Coalition, the LibDems would have suffered regardless, but there weren’t enough of them. SLab needed to blot their copybook to remove the Westminster/Holyrood split vote, and the referendum achieved that.

I just keep getting 21jump street flashbacks….

‘Infiltrate the dealers, find the suppliers’ (bangs table and repeats)….except mine goes….

‘Vote SNP, get your independence’…..

Banging table

@ Lochside – the BBC chose to highlight Nicola’s tweet about Clarks labelling girls’ shoes Dolly Babe and boys’ shoes Leader.
The BBC chose not to highlight Nicola’s tweet condemning race hate crimes and stating there is no equivalence with protesters protecting tolerance.
Never mind the fact that labelling 50% of the population baby dolls and the other 50% Leaders is sexist and unacceptable. Never mind the fact that the state broadcaster chooses which issue to highlight.
How come the only thing bothering you is that Alex Salmond chose to invite David Davis onto his show yesterday?

Brian Powell says:
14 August, 2017 at 10:20 pm
heedtracker

Presumable Oliver left out Wales and Ireland too?

I dont know, I can’t remember:D

Wales was part of Roman Britain right enough.

Its all just so intellectually dishonest though, of a shill like Oliver, to call Roman England, Roman Britain. But to erase such an important part of world history like this, merely for that grand old Britnat cultural domination of Scotland today, is pretty ghastly. Oliver gets really well paid though.

Ofcourse all British historians do it, its certainly how the English perceive their country, that Scotland was a wild wasteland of nothing much at all.

But Hadrian’s wall did chop the British isles in half and they had to do it because they just couldnt conquer the now Scottish Celts. And they really did try.

If they had succeeded in conquering the half of the British isles now known as Scotland, it would probably have changed the course of world history.

Would there have been a British Empire, in a British isles not conquered by Rome. Almost certainly a thing called England would never have existed, let alone the now world wide Anglo Saxon English language.

No British Empire would have meant no 20thC world wars, no WW1, no WW2. British colonial genocides in Africa, the Americas and Australia would also have never happened, not without the British Empire.

You can do counterfactual history all night but an appalling shill like Oliver and ofcourse the BBC, are stealing all our history, not just Scottish history but world history too.

He really is a walking disgrace/just another BBC gimp, with loadsamoney!

Excellent article by Craig Murray on Culloden. Some small redress against the mountain of lies about our history. Hope it is the first of many.

link to craigmurray.org.uk

Neil Oliver’s a dick. He’s also boring. He’s a boring dick.

@ Lochside, we have a “kid-on” parliament because the politicians negotiating then trusted their counterparts with respect to the terms. Now the Supreme Court are “not minded” to interpret intent of the terms, they conviently fall back on wording of the terms. Possibly the Supreme Court ruling might just arouse the complacent among us to feel insulted.And to repeat the Arab saying I learned in my travels:-

Batter to have an Englishman as your enemy than as your friend. As an enemy he will try to bribe you, as a friend he will try to sell you.

@ Highland Wifie – I’ve just been watching “Hidden Numbers” about the black women in America who worked as mathematicians and programmers on the NASA space programme in the early 60s. Nobody had heard of them until now.

Racism and sexism galore and, of course, paranoia about “The Russians” who had a man in space first, Yuri Gagarin in 1961.
The Soviet Union also had a woman in space in 1963, Valentina Tereshova. But the Hollywood film chose not to mention that embarrassing fact.

It is totally unacceptable that corporations are still trying to label women “baby dolls” whilst boys are “leaders”. Nicola is absolutely right to call them out. Of course, she is subjected to the usual sexist drivel on twitter about wearing high heels.

BTW the recommendation of the film “Hidden Numbers” came from Roseanna Cunningham.

Can be seen on link to gostream.is no guarantees about the site.

I was at the Alex Salmond show which is purely for charity and admit to being gobsmacked when he introduced his special guest as one David Davies the Brexit secretary.

It was explained why they became “pals” they both worked hard together in the HOC in order to have Tony Blair indicted for war crimes by taking the UK into war in Iraq.

I’m not surprised that Alex Salmond could work with a Tory with this particular goal in mind.

Also as Capella poined out, Nicola Surgeon will express many views on many topics. She doesn’t though get to choose which ones the media will run with.

OK Nazi’s or shoes? “lets go with the shoes”. Not her fault.

Heedtracker…you’re a great one for exhorting others to ‘do something’ yet all you ever seem to do is talk in riddles about Adam Tompkins…maybe you two should get together and consummate your love hate relationship.

Apologies for the double post, thought the word Nazi’s could have been on the filter list. Seems not.

I can’t stand yon unionist lapdog Neil Oliver.

If you want a Scottish presenter of historical and other factual documentaries give me Professor Iain Robertson – he is excellent, accurate and interesting – he really knows his stuff unlike the wee longhaired ponce with the bag.

@Footsoldier says: 14 August, 2017 at 10:53 pm:

“Far too many people on here wasting their time speaking to the like minded and given the length of some posts and their frequency, it’s clearly a pastime.”

That exemplifies your attitude, Footsoldier, short-sighted and very wrong.

Many of the regular commenters on here have been chapping doors, delivering leaflets and keeping branches alive for many decades. They have been working all their adult lives for Scottish independence.

They are now old, sick and/or disabled and can no longer do what they have been doing for many decades throughout their lives.

I am now in my 80s, I’m both ill and disabled and mostly housebound, but, Hey! “I’m only doing it as a pastime.”

Aye!
Richt!

Nana Smith is not exactly in her prime now either and is not in the best of health. She works bloody hard furnishing links and her work is greatly appreciated by everyone.

Smallaxe too is not in the best of health – but Hey! He can always use Wings as a pastime, can’t he?

Those are just a few of the Wingers here, “talking to the converted”, but if it were not for those of us who slogged it out through the lean years for the independence movement there wouldn’t be an SNP or an independence movement now.

What is more that, “Talking to the converted”, can, and does, impart information and corrects mistaken concepts that just might help those who are still able to get out on the streets.

@ Robert Peffers – well said. Every contribution is valuable. Who knows which aspect of the movement will convince a reluctant NO to change sides. Everyone is doing whatever they can and that is something to celebrate.

The media will always be selective in what they print regarding the SNP and Independence. They will always choose to print SNP bad.

They will describe David Davies and Alex Salmond as “pals” without explaining that they worked together in order to try and indict Tony Blair for war crimes. A big omission.

They will take a tweet about shoes (which was really about gender profiling) from Nicola Sturgeon and put it all over the radio and TV while neglecting to tell you of her objection on the same day to what was happening in Charlottesville with the Nazi demonstration that Trump refuses to condemn.

We need to get smarter at reading the news, what is omitted is as important as what they are willing to print. You can’t trust them, so if it smells fishy it probably is. Go and look it up for yourselves is as much as you can do really. Never take their reports at face value, especially statistics on health, education or crime.

The truth is out there, your job is to find it for yourself, then let others know that the press are lying. We do have that power.

One reason the media chooses to ignore Nicola’s condemnation of race hate and support for diversity, is that they are busy labelling the Charlottesville Nazis “white nationalists”.
Neil Oliver got a whole BBC documentary to smear the Scots as Ku Klux Klan racists.
That narrative would be hard to sustain if Nicola’s attack on racism was widely known.
So you won’t hear about it from the state broadcaster. Doesn’t fit the narrative.

@heedtracker
“Oliver is just another Britnat shill. His last BBC archeology blockbuster, Celts in Europe and Britain completely left out Scotland. He’s not just a shill, he’s an intellectual charlatan but he is loaded though.

That whole archeology series on Europe’s Celts was extremely BBC creepy, on the Celts. Contemporary England loathes Celtic everything basically but its still very weird watching them use a Scottish shill to make sure we get the point, BBC says Celts were bad, bad in the past, v v bad now.”

I take your point, after a lifetime study of the subject, that a mainstay of ‘English identity’, at least that embraced by their elite class if not the hoi polloi, is the notion of ‘not Celtic’.

However, let me briefly give a very potted background.

When Rome first began on its imperialist project which was to became the prototype for modern imperialism, most of Europe, the Northern 2/3, was ‘Celtic’.

The term ‘Celtic’ should not be taken to infer anything like a political unit, on the contrary, politically it consisted of, at best, loose and temporary confederations with frequent internecine tribal warfare.

However, classical contemporary commentary points to pretty much a pan cultural continuum in social practices, religiosity, art and design and linguistically throughout the region.

Rome’s first attempt to exert imperialist control ended very badly for them, with the Celts under Brennus sacking Rome and holding it to ransom.

Rome, and hence nascent imperialism, could have been snuffed out completely at that stage, but the Celts love of gold was too great and they relinquished their hold on the city for a suitably large amount of the stuff.

After that, the Romans began a new strategy. Colleges were set up to teach military leaders about the concepts of divide and conquer, ‘Pax Romana’ and other forms of bribery. The modern basis of imperialism was born.

To give an example. Celtic tribes were wont, on occasion, to migrate en mass. One example is the Helvetii from approx. Switzerland today. They decided to up sticks and settle in what is now Western France. This was contrary to the imperialist Roman needs at the time so this was ‘corrected’ and the Helvetii were forced back to the Swiss area they came from.

That episode is well documented in history as related by the classical scribes, if the numbers involved were probably exaggerated.

But now, to get back to the point somewhat, we come to the less well documented case of the Cimbri. Who they? Well these are the people who occupied the area of Europe from which the Angles-Saxons-Jutes were to come from to Britain several centuries later.

The Cimbri are described by contemporary classical scribes as sometimes being linguistically ‘Celtic’ and sometimes ‘Germanic’.
Archeology reveals distinctly ‘Celtic’ artistic sensibilities for the area, like the Gundestrup Bowl, even if the artifacts were often themselves shown to be sourced elsewhere.

It is also clear, that, like the Helvetii, they attempted a mass migration which was thwarted by the Roman Empire.
What is not so clear is whether in this instance, the wannabe migrants were returned to their home area or not, but then why wouldn’t they be?

The point being that, while the incoming Anglos, Saxons and Jutes into the British Isles in the 5th to 7th centuries were undeniably linguistically ‘Germanic’ by then their origins were quite possibly ‘Celtic’.

So the much vaunted (wanted?) supplantation of British Celts in England by a Germanic people, as promoted by ‘days of Empire’ historians like A. J. P. Talor is not just logistically nonsensical (nothing like supplantation could have or did happen) but may have been by a people who were themselves ‘ethnically’ Celtic in origin.

In fact, modern haplotype mapping using SNP data has shown a significant hike in so called ‘Celtic markers’ in the Jutland, Schleswig-Holstein area of Europe compared to the immediate surrounding area.

The existence of an ethnic differential between ‘the English’ and ‘the Celts’ within these islands is looking more and more like wishful thinking by the English academic elite.

Chris Deerin is still unhappy that Yes voters laughed for about a month at his fantasy Britain article from 2014.

Chris Deerin: The coarse politics of identity drags us all down
The Herald, 15 August 2017

For some of us, it was an allergy to this tribalism, to the spasmodic urge to divide into us and them, that made a Yes vote in the independence referendum of 2014 utterly unthinkable. This is not to suggest the leaders of the SNP were culpable (although the dreadful Alex Salmond sailed close to the wind), but it was easily found among the wider Yes movement. After writing an article explaining why I’d be voting No, I was subjected to days of online vitriol and called, among other things, a white supremacist, a racist, a cap-doffing lickspittle, a ridiculous cringing joke of a human being, Uncle Tom in a kilt, and a bitter ("Tractor" - Ed). If the intention was to woo me to the cause, I confess the chosen method fell short.

heraldscotland.com/opinion/15473047.Chris_Deerin__The_coarse_politics_of_identity_drags_us_all_down/

And here’s the identity-free article he’s referring to.

Chris Deerin: We Scots have a clear moral duty this year – to stay British
13 January 2014

We have built a welfare state to care for the poorest and most vulnerable among us, and worry constantly about whether we are doing enough or getting it right. The key policies of this Conservative-led government are reforms to welfare and education, and even those who disagree with them should concede that the intention is to improve the lot of those who have the least.

theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/13/scots-moral-duty-stay-british-referendum

Chick McGregor @ 00:54,

To avoid any misunderstanding (not least by those actively seeking it out), for the benefit of those who are unfamiliar with the term in this context, it might be worthwhile to mention that the “SNP” to which you refer is not somehow an attempt by the dastardly nationalist party to dabble in genetic manipulation and create dodgy alt-history (=grin=), but the well-established technical term “single nucleotide polymorphism”, or “mutation” to we ordinary folk.

Speaking to the like minded is about support and reinforcement and a darn good thing when surrounded by pretendy Yes supporters constantly talking down that support
and attempting to undermine the cause of the real Yes movement

We know the internet is full of “concerned” folk who would like nothing better than to create a loss of faith in the SNP because that would leave us all the choice to vote for, erm, well let us think, who could that be then?

Hold on while we scratch our collective thick heads and think, coz we’re all that stupid

Hey there Crazycat, credit where credit is due! Well done for being an ALERT READER = )

MR PEFFERS! Where on Earth did you pick up the notion that I was capable of a ‘best school marmish act’ ?! 🙂

The very idea, indeed.

I have been thinking about all you have said.

Yes, we have been robbed of our feeling easy with the term British.

I grew up hearing ‘the British Government’, ‘the Great British Empire’, the ‘British Army’.

As I recall, it wasn’t called ‘the UK Government’ etc.

I am Scottish, much as I love all of the parts that make up these Bonny Isles =)

BUT I will ask the next person who tells me they are British what exactly that means to them. Then run a synopsis of your shared knowledge past them =)

Especially if that is expressed as their reason for withholding Scotland’s Independence.

Ach well, numpties the lot of them! Have a lovely Tuesday folks! =)

@Robert Peffers

I did not intend to insult anyone and I will defer to your seniority as you have about 4 or 5 years on me and I too still struggle out despite bad hips.

I stand by final comment, few seniors No voters will be converted to Yes by websites and there are a lot of older No voters out there. I really would like to see indy before it is too late for me.

Over and out!

@ G Campbell,
It never fails to amaze me how individually blinkered or just plain stupid or just downright dishonest unionists seem to be. They talk of British values, but they don’t recognise the lies and misinformation told in defence of these so called values, they don’t acknowledge their own complicity in theft and murder, not only from the past, but what’s happening now. They seem to be incapable of equating the same xenophobic british nationalism with the white supremacists in America or the alt right everywhere else.
It takes a special kind of a deluded mindset to be a Britnat.

Call Kaye on about Baby Boxes “Is it worth £8
million ” of your taxes?

• Phone
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Just another thought,
Who decided that London became the capital of the uk, was there an act of parliament that confirmed its position. The seat of government is in the City of Westminster, and that by all accounts is separate from London. Huge amounts of our money is spent in the upkeep and improvement of London because its the ‘ capital ‘, but Edinburgh is my Capital City not London.

Chick McGregor says:
15 August, 2017 at 12:54 am
@heedtracker

Hi Chick. Great info but my thesis:D
is much broader than this.

BBC gimps and shills like Oliver not only duck away from the global impact made by Hadrians Wall and the creation of Scotland, they also love bumming up the Roman Empire too.

That last whole Celtic Europe thing he did was pretty good on Halstatt Celts but the whole overall presentation was extremely negative about them.

Pejorative doesn’t come close.

Oliver’s whole phoney concept of this apparently mysterious pan European warrior culture, way back in the mists of time, who even beheaded their enemies you know, for shame, was all to make the Celts look bad, v v bad.

Yet compared to the Romans, one of the most savage and barbaric cultures that ever existed…and you get my point?

Anyway its hardly a surprise that cultural bullies and shills, BBC style, which some of our chums in the south and Pacific Quay ofcourse are, well they are never going to explore the fact that Celts of Scotland didnt just defeat the might of Rome, their triumph over Roman imperialism created England today and changed the course of human history.

Or what would the world now be like if England had never existed, as it almost nearly didnt?

Creeps like Neil Oliver are far more than just money grubbing BBC gimps and shills.