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The angriest man in Scotland

Posted on August 28, 2015 by

We were greatly amused to learn this morning that Professor Adam Tomkins of Glasgow University, the bad-tempered darling of the Scottish Conservatives and the only political pundit who can make Alan Cochrane of the Telegraph seem measured and thoughtful, plans to stand for election to the Scottish Parliament next May.


We suspect he’ll succeed, too. It now seems plain that Ruth Davidson’s move earlier this month from the Glasgow list to the Lothian one was a ploy to get Prof. Tomkins to the top of the former, and while a Tory list seat in Glasgow is by no means a certainty next year, it’s more likely than not.

(We’ll be somewhat startled if the irritable English academic finds the courage to even try contesting a constituency in Scotland’s largest city. It’s moderately possible that his abrasive hectoring of Scottish voters’ stupidity in continuing to elect the SNP might not go down too well in the council schemes of Easterhouse and Drumchapel.)

Trying to pick out the funniest line in the announcement is no easy task.

It certainly gets off to a cracking start, though.


We assume that “if the SNP leader pips Ruth to the post” is being used there in the sense of “if Barcelona pip Kilmarnock to next season’s Champions League”.

The Scottish Tories aren’t exactly known for their strength in depth, drawing their current 15 MSPs from a talent pool that would struggle to dampen Michelle Mone’s celebrated deck (not a euphemism).

Davidson herself attracted just 1,845 votes in Glasgow Kelvin in 2011, barely clinging onto the Tory deposit, and with Annabel Goldie standing down in 2016 to spend more time with her family the House of Lords, there’ll be a vacancy for the position of “fourth Scottish Conservative people have heard of”, after Davidson, Murdo Fraser and David Torrance Mundell, for which Tomkins’ omnipresence on the BBC will put him in pole position.

Of course, that’s assuming he’s still a Tory by then. In 2004 Tomkins spoke at a Scottish Socialist Party rally on Calton Hill in Edinburgh to call for an independent Scottish republic. He also co-authored a book on the subject with Alasdair Gray, but his position on republicanism now seems somewhat unclear.

Earlier this year he told the Herald:

“In the sense of being a parliament man, who thinks parliament should make [key] decisions and not judges or members of the royal family or even ministers, I’m still fully signed up. But in terms of getting rid of the Queen and having a presidency, I’m probably not signed up to that anymore.”

So a that’s a self-declared “fully signed-up” republican, just one who wants to keep the monarchy. Glad we cleared that up.

Professor Tomkins has of course already made his mark on Scottish politics. Having been elected by nobody, he nevertheless represented the Tories on the Smith Commission, shaping the Scotland Bill that will determine the nature of devolution in coming years. His goals on the Commission were clear, as revealed by a Twitter exchange with Scottish Labour lunatic Ian Smart in May:


In other words, the purpose of the Scotland Bill powers is – as this site warned last year – to hamstring the Scottish Government by forcing it to pick up the bill for brutal Tory cuts out of its own budget, even as that budget is reduced. It is at least nice to have the Unionist parties’ malicious intent out in the open for once.

Tomkins’ blog post announcing his intention to stand featured many other standout lines, including one heaping praise on “Iain Duncan Smith’s welfare reforms, ensuring that work always pays and moving people from the immiseration of benefit dependency to the liberation and dignity that comes with work”.

That’s a gushing tribute that could perhaps have been slightly better timed in the week when the government finally revealed that thousands of people have died while being deemed “fit for work” by the DWP. But Tomkins is happy to identify with it, following the paragraph with the words “This is the kind of Tory I am: liberal, modern, reformist”.

Tomkins is absolutely convinced that the people of Scotland are gullible morons, voting SNP only because they’ve been hoodwinked into unthinking blind faith by wily Alex Salmond and latterly Nicola Sturgeon. Any minute now, he insists (along with a whole parade of other Unionists), they will finally come to their senses and vote Tory. Earlier this month, he wrote:

“At the moment the SNP is, to many people, more of a cult than a political party. One poll found recently that 62% of Scots plan to vote for them next year despite only 35% of us thinking that they are doing a good job with the powers they have.

But this too will pass, as Scots come to understand that the SNP is not just another anti-austerity protest movement but, you know, an actual government with, you know, actual powers and stuff. Reason can be blinded by the passions, but only for so long.”

In May the Tories won their lowest vote share in Scotland in history – lower even than the 1997 wipeout when Scotland ejected every last Conservative MP in the country. John Major still got 17.5% of the Scottish vote that year, compared to the dismal 14.9% recorded in 2015. It’s now 23 years since the party won more than a single Scottish seat at a UK general election. Anyone believing in an imminent Tory revival is surely the faith-based irrationalist in the room.

Still, it’s not unreasonable to suppose that the Scottish Tories must be at or near rock bottom, and with 56 out of 59 MPs and polls over 60%, it’s almost an arithmetical certainty that the only way the SNP can go is down. It doesn’t take a professor to ascertain that – a reasonably intelligent horse could probably figure it out.

But the Tories have been bumping along that rock bottom for a generation now, and we’re not sure that Adam Tomkins is the man to turn it around. We challenge him to prove us wrong: stand for a seat, Professor, not just a coward’s list place, and let the people of Scotland be your judge.

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  1. 28 08 15 17:22

    The angriest man in Scotland | Politics Scotlan...

474 to “The angriest man in Scotland”

  1. CameronB Brodie says:

    Wasn’t there once a bunch of European ‘nationalists’ who thought themselves “modern and reformist”? Some probably believed themselves moderately liberal, as well.

    “Arbeit macht frei”

  2. MajorBloodnok says:

    If anyone’s reason is blinded by the passions, it’s Prof Tomkins’.

  3. Duine Bochd says:

    Calling a list place cowardly is rather unpleasant, Stu.

    It strikes me as very reminiscent of labour mocking the SNP for having the same MP on list and constitutional ballots because they weren’t “man enough” to choose one or the other. List places should not be looked down upon, and I am very alarmed to hear you parroting the same bullishness once uttered by said doomed party.

  4. Lesley-Anne says:

    “if the SNP leader pips Ruth to the post”

    Keep taking the meds Prof! 😛

    Can someone please ensure that he is taking the RIGHT meds though cause by the looks of it he appears to have been taking acid, L.S.D. or some other well known hallucinogenic drug. 😀

  5. gillie says:

    The good citizens of Glasgow will run Adam Tomkins out of town when they find out this is a man who believes that Glaswegians are inherently stupid and IDS is not being tough enough on the poor in the city.

  6. Bill Hume says:

    Let us be clear on this point.
    He is not the angriest man in Scotland

    He only helped me to achieve this position.

  7. galamcennalath says:

    I’m surprised if the Tories let this guy join them in Holyrood.

    While I despise Tory policies, now and in the past, they rarely come over as fools. Far from it in fact. Generally the Tories say what they are and what they plan to do, then if the can, they do it. They are focused and the agenda is clear to see. (In total contrast to Lab & LibDems).

    They are in a very poor position in Scotland. Worst since 1865. That position is unlikely to improve, from a Scottish voter’s standpoint, over the next 9 months. Why would they make matters worse by having Tomkins among them?

  8. Marie Clark says:

    Good Grief! I take it that this is not a wind up.

    Quite right Rev to challenge him to stand for a seat, but I think you’ll find that in common with this type of numptie, they’re just like the barber’s cat. Full of wind and pish.

    What a conceited arrogant eejit of a man. I’d like to see him campaign in Glasgow in that suit. They would need to keep him down Govan way where he would be amongst friends.

    Through the looking glass now. Bloody hell.

  9. Training Day says:

    List of organisations which will talk up this oafish clown as a statesman worthy of Metternich:

    The BBC
    ‘Scottish’ Labour
    The Daily Record

    Any port in a storm, eh, Unionists? Only a matter of time before Tomkins dons a Scotland strip for a run along the Clyde..

  10. Nana Smith says:

    I would say from reading his rambling postings on the guardian he comes across as quite mad which seems to be a trait amongst unionists such as historwoman, hopkins and other britnats.

    I do wonder what happened in their lives that turned them into such bitter and delusional people. Not cuddled enough as children maybe.

    Oh and prof if you are reading this get a new tailor for gawd’s sake, that sight is hellish sore on the eyes.

  11. heedtracker says:

    He is a nutter but imagine toryboys like him anywhere near power in Scotland. In his blog, he UKOK brags about how his Smith Commision PAYE devo is designed to fcuk John Swinney and ofcourse Scotland-

    “Moreover, well before 2021 the new tax and welfare powers agreed by the Smith Commission and currently being legislated for in the Scotland Bill will be fully in force.

    Mr Swinney made a complete hash of the first tax devolved to him (stamp duty) and, when he takes charge of income tax in Scotland, which he soon will, his job will get a whole lot harder. Especially when he has a Cabinet Secretary for Welfare urging him radically to increase spending on social security provision in Scotland.”

    Lovely chap.

  12. Carmel Townsend says:

    Your articles and in-depth, clever and very often humorously sarcastic insights, just get better and better.
    How lucky Scottish people are to have Wee Ginger Dug and Wings Over Scotland et al, to turn to for information and wonderful detailed writing about the people who rule us.
    I am English but live in Wales. What wouldn’t I give to have something like WGD here in Wales so that people can wake up to the reality of entrenched Labour at the National Assembly.
    Are you sure we can’t vote SNP in Wales!!!?

  13. Iain AF Fleming says:

    Um, that’s not Tomkins in that ridiculous suit.

  14. Macart says:

    Oh good grief! 😀

    Mr Tomkins really does fill in the blanks doesn’t he? No, I think we’re perfectly clear on what kind of a Conservative Mr Tomkins is.

    One question though Rev. Are you sure about that top image? 😀

  15. louis.b.argyll says:

    Even that suit wouldn’t save him in Govan…

  16. notallusenglishareeejits says:

    Nothing would give some of us down here in the beautiful south more pleasure than seeing Prof Tomkins wearing his butcher’s apron suit around the Glasgow boroughs. How long that suit and the processed donkey meat residing inside it last is open to speculation.

  17. Dan Huil says:

    Is he related to the auld boy who used to attend England football games dressed up in a union-flag dinner suit? England and Britain being one and the same thing, of course.

  18. Capella says:

    @ heedtracker
    Perhaps the Scottish Government will just vote against the Scotland Bill being implemented. What will Prof Tomkins do then, poor thing?

  19. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Um, that’s not Tomkins in that ridiculous suit.”

    I know. Read the caption.

  20. Whenever I read anything by Tomkins I’m overcome with a gut-wrenching sense of pity for his poor students. Accuracy, brevity and clarity have never been his strong points.

    It wouldn’t surprise me if even the most ardent Nat in Glasgow Uni is considering assisting Tomkins’ campaign, just for the chance of never having to listen to or read his words again. Should that come to pass, our common humanity should absolve any such students of blame and they should most certainly not be subjected to any sort of Labour-style Purge.

  21. Ian Brotherhood says:

    This dude addressed the Calton Hill rally in 2004?!

    Gordon Bennett…you learn something new every day richt enough.

    Have often seen his name mentioned here, but never taken any interest in him – is he a real professor, and if so, of what? Do we know anyone who’s had him as a teacher?

  22. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Calling a list place cowardly is rather unpleasant, Stu.”

    Oh behave yourself. Most list candidates have put themselves forward for constituencies too, but not been selected.

  23. notallusenglishareeejits says:

    @Carmel Townsend

    I’d like to see, just for a giggle, the SNP put up a candidate to run for London Mayor and sit back and enjoy the embedded gutter corporate mainstream media absolutely sh*t themselves and go into hyperbolic hysterics.

  24. Ken MacColl says:

    What subject does this strange person profess to be educated on?
    Surely he is not permitted to speak to speak unsupervised to aspiring younsters?

  25. Muscleguy says:

    @Carmel Townsend

    Um have you nae heard of Plaid Cymru? You, know, the SNP’s sister party. They caucus together in Westminster and everything.

  26. ahundredthidiot says:

    Bill Hume thinks he is the angriest man in Scotland

    Not so sure about that….I am very competitive.

    And I am not alone.

  27. donald anderson says:

    No, not another Union Hack turncoat.

    Am I the only Republican left in Scotland.

  28. Iain AF Fleming says:

    Um, that isn’t Tomkins in that ludicrous suit.

  29. chris kilby says:

    Never heard of him.


  30. Rev says picture not Tomkins,but I have to say it looks awffy like him.

  31. Kennedy says:

    Deluded Lunatic!

    publicly enjoying the suffering of others to make a political point.

    how could any right minded person vote for him? or the Tories by association.

    i can sort of understand greed. we all want more. however to endorse starvation and death is inhuman. i hope there is a hell because he has a seat reserved.

  32. Lesley-Anne says:

    notallusenglishareeejits says:

    @Carmel Townsend

    I’d like to see, just for a giggle, the SNP put up a candidate to run for London Mayor and sit back and enjoy the embedded gutter corporate mainstream media absolutely sh*t themselves and go into hyperbolic hysterics.

    I think we’d all love to see that happen notall. What Ithink would be even funnier would be the complete nuclear explosion within mainstream media after the SNP Mayoral candidate won! 😀

  33. Socrates MacSporran says:

    Listen very carefully Campbell, I will say this only once.

    Oany mair cracks aboot Killie and you’ll get a cracked jaw.


  34. Jack Murphy says:

    This is no way for a member of the Smith Commission to conduct himself in public. 🙁
    A great photo for his election pamphlets.
    Come on Ruth Davidson give the man a break and let him stand—–you know it makes sense. 🙂

  35. Luigi says:

    Prof. Tomkins seems to be rapidly turning into a Conservative equivalent of John McTernan. There’s that same aura of “I know best”, an alternative universe, a strange dimension, the exact opposite of reality, together with being incredibly rude.

    Even if he chickens out of the Rev’s challenge to stand for a constituency, his increased exposure as a list MSP would not go down well in many parts of Scotland.

    Now there’s an idea – anyone have a chicken suit?. 🙂

  36. Kennedy says:

    Every time Tomkins opens his mouth in public a fairy dies. no only joking. every time he opens his mouth in public the tory vote will half.

  37. Quarmby says:

    I note that on the poltroon’s FB page he, rightly, lists ‘lives in: Glasgow.’ But then he’s also put ‘from: Glasgow.’ So he’s claiming to be a Glaswegian by birth. I assume that’s an update made to his FB page since this scheme to slither into Scottish affairs through the vulnerable list system was hatched with Ruth Davidson. Whether or not he gets in, this has all the makings of a spectacular backfire on the Tomkins poltroon, Davidson and what’s left of the Scottish branch of the Tories. BTW, I note his Wikipedia entry is kept strictly edited to describe him as ‘British’, with no place of birth given. I wonder if that, too, will shortly be edited to describe him as ‘from Glasgow’…..

  38. notallusenglishareeejits says:

    “Um, that’s not Tomkins in that ridiculous suit.”

    No, but I bet he’s got one sitting nicely pressed in his wardrobe- with matching drapes in the kitchen.

  39. HandandShrimp says:

    Tomkins and Smart in perfect synergy. Blue Helmet + Red Helmet = Purple Helmet

    Ahem…I’ll get me coat

  40. The Man in the Jar says:

    Tomkins wrote in his blog “liberation and dignity that comes with work”.

    Now that’s got a familiar ring to it. Im sure that I have seen similar somewhere else. Wonder where?

  41. Ananurhing says:

    Tomkins actually believes his own bullshit. Trouble is so many others are impressed by his C.V. and defer to his intellectual slobbery.

    Here’s some of his insightful North Britwattery on the 2015 GE.

    “The Scottish Labour party also has an impressive new leadership team, although it is always harder for the opposition than it is for the government to set the agenda, or event to set the pace, doubly so when your new leader is not (yet) a Member of the Scottish Parliament. But Jim Murphy is talented enough to know how to turn that to his advantage. His eyes will be firmly fixed on the 2016 prize and he will not be overly distracted by the 2015 general election”.

    Pray tell us more oh great sage.
    Like how should we fuck off master?

  42. Petra says:

    It would seem that the plan to increase popularity amongst the Tories, Lidems and Labour is to take part in totally destroying Scotland to make their ‘stay part of the Union’ point. When something negative happens, clearly outwith the control of the SNP, such as the drop in oil revenue they all jumped on the ‘blame the SNP bandwagon’ whilst rubbing their hands in glee. Sad, eh?

    Mr Tomkins is living in cloud cuckooland and should put his ‘money where his mouth is’ and stand for say a seat in Glasgow. Let’s see how many of the ‘cult followers’ will vote for him after they fire off a few rotten tomatoes (cheaper than eggs and will match his outfit).

  43. Bill Steele says:

    I agree with Duine Bochd, “Calling a list place cowardly is rather unpleasant,…” I’m disappointed that you have such low regard for those who have sufficient commitment and care for our country to stand for list seat.

  44. Lesley-Anne says:

    Ye gawd’s, I’ve just had a thought. (yes I know I’m not supposed to have thoughts but I couldn’t help it I was distracted by that *ahem* beautiful photo Stu has at the top of the article 😛 )

    We will need to massively increase our anti tank armaments down here in the South if this Muppet is going to stand in May. We will be getting attacked by not only the Davidson Panzer division but now, apparently, the Tomkins Panzer division as well.

    Don’t worry though folks WE are ready and willing to put our lives on the line fighting those dastardly Panzer divisions.

    WE have the means.

    WE have the whereforall.

    WE have the manpower.

    WE have the weaponry.

    WE have US! 😀

  45. pitchfork says:


    to be fair to Tomkins I think it is a Scottish thing for “from” = “where you grew up” as opposed to “live/stay” = “where you reside”.

    I’m pretty sure that in much of down South this distinction doesn’t really exist and “where are you from?” is basically the same question as “where do you stay/live?”

  46. Dal Riata says:

    Tomkins is just so easy to despise.

    That he went from being a speaker at a Scottish Socialist Party rally, calling for an independent Scottish republic and co-authoring a book on the subject in 2004, to the far-right, Scottish independence/SNP/Scottish government/Scottish hopes for a better future-hating Tory he is now makes him even more despicable yet.

    He will, no doubt, say and do other hateful things to bring his despicability to an even higher plane.

  47. notallusenglishareeejits says:

    @ The Man in the Jar

    Iain Drunken Spliff, the Minister of Death/DWP said something similar quite recently. Original it ain’t. Regurgitating neo-fascist rhetoric from the 1930’s & 40’s it is.

  48. JayR says:

    Rent-a-gob Tomkins has already been rejected by us Glaswegians, even before he’s stood.

    He’s a British nationalist fanatic whose whole reason for existing seems to be to keep his beloved “union” on life support.

    BUT Glasgow overwhelmingly rejected his “union” in September and always rejects his little party.

    Would be quite a laugh to see him constantly making an arse of himself in parliament. But if he was elected he’d probably have a seizure having to sit in a chamber full of SNP politicians. AND I don’t want that @rsehole being kept at taxpayers expense.

  49. Geoff Huijer says:

    I always thought that was him in that suit, so I’ve learned something today.

    That Mr Tomkins is a Tory, UKOK lover who is happy with the demonisation of the poor and therefore the results (i.e. deaths) of the UK’s ‘benefit clampdown’ is of no surprise.

    Can’t say I’m a fan.

  50. N Mackenzie says:

    I totally disagree.
    NOTHING can make Cockers seem thoughtful.

  51. Anagach says:

    His press release is cliche best focusing upon Tropes “SNP-Bad”, and for those familiar with BBC Labour Scotland of “Crisis-in-all-services”. A little short on any suggestions of policy like how the Conservatives are going to make everything better, like reverse the police and fire service mergers ? or privatize the health service ?, or charge for Education ?, he did mention introducing “Mayors” to Scotland.

  52. Quarmby says:

    @Bill Steel writes: “I agree with Duine Bochd, “Calling a list place cowardly is rather unpleasant,…”

    Except that nobody called list places per se ‘cowardly’. What was clearly meant – except to the terminally obtuse or Unionist agents provocateurs – was that using the list system as a *first choice* in order to slither into the Scottish parliament without facing the test of the electorate, is cowardly. Particularly so when it is someone with Tomkins’ agenda of ill-will towards Scotland and its well being as a nation, as well as being a part of a musical-chairs manipulation of the list system with Ruth Davidson. Off you pop with your faux ‘disappointment’, chancer – you give your agenda away with your total lack of ‘disappointment’ over anything Tomkins or Davidson have said, done, or are in the process of doing.

  53. Dal Riata says:

    Still finding it difficult to get my head around Tomkins speaking at a Scottish Socialist Party rally and calling for an independent Scottish republic… WTF happened that would make him turn 180° to where his politics lie now?

    Yes, people do change their views and politics regularly, but his is such an extreme turnaround that it makes you think that something must have triggered it off.

    Did he try to hit on Nicola and got told to GTF, or something?

    Whatever, he is very, very bitter for some reason(s) or other.

  54. gordoz says:

    @ Dal Riata – Such bipolar views and varied political affiliations are also classic actions of political infiltration / observation, influence and affect by agents of the state.

    (Would not trust such an individual on any level – ever).

    However I’m sure with such a ‘big heid’ he would want to do the proper thing and stand against his nemesis the FM in the YES capital. Surely he must, since he detests all forms of nationalism .. er no I mean Scottish Nationalism.

  55. louis.b.argyll says:

    Re. Cowardly or not, surely if Tomkins/Tories claim to be about to be Scotlands opposition..

    They MUST put their money where their mouth is..

    And stand for a seat.

    There is no lessening of the value of the seats they hope to hold/gain etc…’s about their low risk approach- conflicting with their bluster..

    So if they have another disaster HE will be protected, get a salary and not go cup in hand to the tory bum boys.

  56. Quarmby says:

    @pitchfork – Really? Yes, let’s bend over backwards to make excuses for Tomkins – after all, everything he puts out tries scrupulously to be fair to non-Unionist Scotland, doesn’t it? Perhaps you can amuse us now with a convoluted bit of apologia on Tomkins’ behalf to explain why, almost uniquely, his Wiki entry shows no place of birth or, indeed, dob. Something which is also notably absent from his online university and social media/professional CVs? Why won’t he say where he’s from? ‘British’ doesn’t cut it, and is outside of the norm, regardless of your circumlocutions on his behalf.

  57. Robert Tyler says:

    Carmel Townsend.
    Try the blog Syniadau. This has a list of great links of a similar bent to Wings etc but in a Welsh context.

  58. Grouse Beater says:

    Tomkins is the transgender version of History Woman.

  59. Schrodingers cat says:

    The thought of heeds girlfriend on cif getting elected is an even more nauseating thought than your last article rev

    I really hope that rise and solidarity can bury the hatchet and ensure he doesn’t win this list seat

  60. Robert Llewellyn Tyler says:

    Carmel Townsend, you cant vote SNP but you can support Plaid Cymru, sister party to the SNP. Try the Syniadau blog which will take you to a veritable plethora of political Welsh blogs advocating independence, social justice, internationalism,environmentalism etc.

  61. AAD says:

    “Angriest man in Britain”? Rampant sexism. When I come home from my stint in the local food bank I think I can justify my claim to be the “Angriest PERSON in Britain”

    And in addition today I have to read about more of those unelected freeloading benefit scroungers that we have to support.

    It is all becoming too much for me.

  62. Murray McCallum says:

    Maybe Professor Tomkins is genetically programmed to make political decisions?

    Must be very frustrating for him to deal with deluded locals. He’s got plenty of time between now and May to sort them out.

  63. carjamtic says:

    This will end badly :-j

    ‘In short,Mr Tomkins,there is no place for you here in the future.

    This is the new Scotland,a new country with new standards and a new morality.

    I must not allow it or its institutions-nascent and ancient alike- to be disparaged and prejudiced by the diseased mind of a wee shite like you.

    For this reason,I order that you be taken from this court,hence-forth to a place of confinement,there
    to dwell in perpetual fear of being chibbed and humped by rabid schemies.’

  64. Hugh Kirk says:

    “if the SNP leader pips Ruth to the post”. The man’s a realist, he should stand. The comedy continues.

  65. KillieBoab says:

    Came to this article a few hours after it was posted and am too late to be the first to express my concern that you think Barcelona are a match for the mighty Killie. Tsk, tsk Rev.

  66. Onwards says:

    “hamstring the Scottish Government by forcing it to pick up the bill for brutal Tory cuts out of its own budget, even as that budget is reduced.”

    This is obviously the desired effect of a hobbled Scotland bill.

    And why the Scottish Government shouldn’t fall into the trap of changing income tax from the England/Wales level.
    At least for a few years.

    Further Westminster cuts are on the way, along with reduced Barnett formula, and as soon as the Scottish government alters income tax rates, it sets itself up for the blame for any budget shortfalls.

    If income tax levels stay the same, then the upcoming fall in the Scottish budget is easily pointed at Westminster cuts, not Scottish government tax policy.

    If devolution is to be done right, then we need far greater powers over company tax, NI, full VAT allocation, energy policy etc
    Then we can start to compete effectively.

    The current income tax powers on their own are a joke, and intended to land the blame on the SNP, while giving the illusion of major powers devolved.

  67. Onwards says:

    “hamstring the Scottish Government by forcing it to pick up the bill for brutal Tory cuts out of its own budget, even as that budget is reduced.”

    This is obviously the desired effect of a hobbled Scotland bill.

    And why the Scottish Government shouldn’t fall into the trap of changing income tax from the England/Wales level.

    Further Westminster cuts are on the way, along with reduced Barnett formula, and as soon as the Scottish government alters income tax rates, it sets itself up for the blame for any budget shortfalls.

    If income tax levels stay the same, then the upcoming fall in the Scottish budget is easily pointed at Westminster cuts, not Scottish government tax policy.

    If devolution is to be done right, then we need far greater powers over company tax, NI, full VAT allocation, energy policy etc
    Then we can start to compete effectively.

    The current income tax powers on their own are a joke, and intended to land the blame on the SNP, while giving the illusion of major powers devolved.

  68. Alan Mackintosh says:

    Well, well, looks like Tomkins was on the stage with Colin Fox, Tommy Sheridan and Rosie Kane. He has had a Damascene conversion.

    From Stu’s twitter

  69. Republicofscotland says:

    Please please please, save us from the insanity of it all, this topsy turvy union looks more surreal the longer it goes on.

    Mr Tomkin in that god awful suit looks like he’s just appeared from Alice’s Wonderland, all that’s missing is the hat.

  70. Mealer says:

    I think there’s a bit of room for the Tory vote to fall still further and the Labour vote maybe hasn’t bottomed out either.Libdems could easily shed a bit more of an already much reduced core support.The Greens might not reach levels current polls suggest.I don’t think its a given that SNP support can only decline from here.

  71. Archie [not Erchie] says:

    O/T – 19th September – George Square Rally. Read my message in Off-Topic


  72. Betsy says:

    Tomkins also co-wrote this with Alasdair Gray

  73. Lesley-Anne says:

    I wonder how long it will be before Tomkin is pushing for I.D.S., Cameron and co. to start initiating this form of punishment here in the U.K. In fact I’m certain Cameron, Gove and co are already drawing up such plans to be announced shortly!

    This just sickens me to bottom of my stomach. I can’t believe that here in the 21st Century a country such as India would even condone such treatment of women, especially after the outcries in the last year over rape in the big cities of India.

  74. jcd says:

    What’s Glasgow Uni doing with this sociopathic lunatic on its payroll anyway?

    Glasgow Uni, always been suspect in various ways.

  75. Pam McMahon says:

    Expect you are all agog, as I am, to see the Scottish Tory/SLab/LibDem manifestos for the Holyrood elections. Or…will they all have to await the London decision on what’s right for Scotland, as per?

    Hope Glasgow hands him his arse in a pan when the time comes.and Lothian,or wherever it is she’s on the list for this year, to wee Ruthie.

  76. ronnie anderson says:

    Scottish Gov should do a recall on all his Students & detoxify their minds.

    Academic Academic AntnDec show more intelligence & they went to Biker Grove.

  77. Lesley-Anne says:

    Anyone interested in the D.W.P. report into mortality statistics can read it here.

  78. Vestas says:

    So from Guardian BTL troll to Holyrood Tory troll?

    Not a great leap these days. Less of a leap than being (purely for example of course) Slovenian and gay and now being neither 😉

  79. pitchfork says:

    @Quarmby while I do appreciate your invitation to entertain I think I’ll give it a miss. Thanks all the same. I’m sure you are perfectly capable of amusing yourself.

    Maybe you could start by looking for enemies where they don’t exist?

    X pitchfork

  80. ronnie anderson says:

    @ Archie (not Erchie) BrianDtt PeteTC PaulaR Jock Scott ++++ & yours truly will be in the middle of Freedom Square ( walter scott statue). We,ll awe be Looking forward to seeing as many of you,s Wingers fae the Northern Branch.

    Irn Bru on tap ( nae Murphy) hey ho we cant provide everything lol.

    We hud tae move fae the auld Vic,s horse,s erse,the Feker keept dribbling oan PeteTC.

  81. Valerie says:

    Great piece, Rev, proving yet again, the best and brightest support independence.

    Listening to the rabid slaverings of Tompkins is like an unwanted peek into a deranged, narcissistic mind. The outpourings have no relationship with the current context or facts, but they blunder on.

    These Unionist types like Tompkins, Cockers have no proper friends to say, shut up, you’re embarrassing yourself.

    Mind, Ruth could have done with that kind of friend when it was a good idea to sit astride a tank.

    Nice work if you can get it.

  82. yesindyref2 says:

    Good Heavens, it’s Curly Watts from Bettabuy!

  83. Dr Jim says:

    This man is the most odious and arrogant “Diddy” there is
    The only people who like this man are TV producers because he is television gold of the highest “Pratt”

    On opening his mouth folk of all political persuasions cringe deeply and for the ordinary bloke he is “Punch in the face”

    Looking forward eagerly to it, lets see if he’s got the guts his own deluded mind has fooled him into
    although I think this might just be a wee click bait stunt to see how much hatred he can generate, he is that type of Nutter

    Which in fact makes him a perfect Tory
    We’ll know soon as he’s an avid reader of Wings, every time he’s on the telly he does like to quote Stu, (without acknowledgement of course)as the propaganda wing of the SNP even though Stu actually to my knowledge can’t and never has voted SNP

  84. yesindyref2 says:

    “if the SNP leader pips Ruth to the post”

    Clever use of language, to create the impression that the Conservatives actually have a chance.

  85. David MacGille-Mhuire says:

    Forgive me, but is this “gentleman” something of an opportunist wanker for whom principle and truth are strangers unto his moral core?

    A former Scottish republican?

    Fcuking immeasurably hilarious.

    Oh wait and be still my beating heart, he is a Unionist (now) lawyer?

    QED as per a pack of ’em: Step forward his mentor Lord “Silver” Darling (another fishy fcuker).

  86. thedogphilosopher says:

    I can think of only two reasons for such a radical switch in ideological outlook:

    A serious trauma to the head

    A serious attempt to be measured for ermine.

  87. jimnarlene says:

    Angriest man in Scotland, Ah dinnae fekin think sae!

  88. Joemcg says:

    Why are so many unionists knob heids? It’s like a common theme.

  89. Dougie says:

    At lectures he refers to Scotland as North Britain

  90. Lollysmum says:

    Very O/T for anyone who needs any persuasion of the need to get rid of Trident

  91. Juteman says:

    Why can I never bump into these scum?
    Are the likes of him, Darling and Broon invisible?
    I would love to give him a ‘stern grilling’.

  92. snode1965 says:

    Seriously, how can any sane person move from being a radical left activist to standing as a Tory candidate within ten years? The only plausible explanation is that he was a covert agent who has now moved to the front line.

  93. Katie says:

    What can I say? Except maybe…… hahahahahahahahaha!!!! What a joker!

  94. heedtracker says:

    Bettertogther Unionistas everywhere tonight, BetterTogether Bob Geldoff looking like a right clown on BBC right now, on another most boring ever tv as long as its about England BBC. Bob should have got a Lords slot too but whatever they say about a Scottish BBC, it couldn’t be any worse than this garbage, in HD.

  95. call me dave says:

    I’m with all you angry people and with him here! 🙁

  96. galamcennalath says:

    A whole pack/herd/flock of BritNats like Tomkins have crawled out of the woodwork in the last couple of years. History woman is another!

    They personify ‘my country right or wrong’ nationalists. They see us challenging their country’s prestige, repution, authority, and credibility – we are threatening everything they hold dear. Yet, their arguments are as illogical as their personal behaviour can be bizarre. That is the nature of faith driven models.

    What they don’t seem to realise is most that Scots have moved well beyond this style of nationalism on a quest for justice, fairness and democracy in a civic and inclusive way. And, at least half of us consider that we have to leave the Union to stand any chance of achieving the society we want!

    The two ways of looking at the world are, I fear, incompatible.

  97. galamcennalath says:

    Lollysmum says:
    “Very O/T for anyone who needs any persuasion of the need to get rid of Trident”

    Threads (1984) is perhaps even more realistically depressing.

    Both should be compulsory viewing.

  98. Sandra says:

    Professor Tomkins sounds like a lovable eccentric from the pages of a Harry Potter book. Maybe JKR dreamed him up?

  99. Douglas Macdonald says:

    For those of you, who were enquiring as to where Professor Tomkins was born, I looked up the birth registers for the United Kingdom from 1955 to 1985. it appears that the only Addam Tomkins likely to fit his profile was born in Newbury, Berkshire, sometime during the third quarter of 1969. As a matter of interest, no one by that name has ever been born in Scotland post WW2.

  100. heedtracker says:

    Red tory boosts blue tory, shock.

    Scott Arthur ?@DrScottThinks 7h7 hours ago
    I’m no Tory, but I think @ProfTomkins will be a good MSP.

    Disgrace! or what Dr Scott Arthur thinks shouts at everything Scottish democracy.

    It just gets weirder by their UKOK day watching proud scot buts boosting toryboy henchmen like this. Any UKOK port in a storm. Maybe Prof T is that giant prick to burst the YES balloon, like Neo in the Matrix, without the looks, or charisma, or conscience, or sense of common decency, or humour, or psychiatric care.

    “This is why I am seeking election as a Scottish Conservative.

    I have not always been a Tory, but I have always been a unionist. I moved from England to Glasgow in 2003, and I have lived and worked in Glasgow ever since. I am a constitutional lawyer. Most of the law I teach, and most of the law I write about in my academic publications, is reserved to the UK (or, indeed, is European law, rather than Scots law). For this reason I did not pay a great deal of professional attention to devolved Scottish politics. Until, that is, the independence referendum came along.”

    Moving to Glasgow made future Lord Tomkinski of Sloveniashire a Conservative. Well lovely Glasgow does do strange things to people.

    HE is the one.

  101. Dal Riata says:

    From Wiki re The Smith Commission and its members:

    The five political parties with representation in the Scottish Parliament were each invited to nominate two representatives to the Commission. Those nominated were:

    Maggie Chapman (Scottish Green Party)

    Linda Fabiani (Scottish National Party)

    Annabel Goldie (Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party)

    Iain Gray (Scottish Labour Party)

    Patrick Harvie (Scottish Green Party)

    Gregg McClymont (Scottish Labour Party)

    Michael Moore (Scottish Liberal Democrats)

    Tavish Scott (Scottish Liberal Democrats)

    John Swinney (Scottish National Party)

    Adam Tomkins (Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party)

    All either (as of 31.10.2014) present or past elected politicians… except one – Adam Tomkins.

    I’ve had a search around Google, but, as yet, haven’t found out how that came about.

    I’m presuming Ruth Davidson chose the Scottish Conservatives and Unionist Party representatives…? I can understand Annabel Goldie being chosen, but Adam Tomkins? Yes, he’s a right-wing uber-Tory and all that stuff, but having never been elected to any parliament, never mind Scotland’s, how come his selection for representation was deemed appropriate?

    I’m presuming, again, that the parties were allowed to choose whomsoever they wished to represent them and being a past or present MSP was not a stipulation.

    But still. Tomkins, FFS!

    The unelected Tomkins, someone who is as full-on Britnat as it is possible to be and anti-Scottish everything and anything, so intrinsically involved in the process to take forward the devolution commitments on further powers for the Scottish Parliament … Eh? Aye right!

    Anyone able to enlighten me/us?

  102. starlaw says:

    Think this is the very guy conservatives need , wish labour could find a others like him. Perhaps Keiza should buy a few raffle tickets from Ruthie

  103. louis.b.argyll says:

    I’m sorry but Trident, with its risks and it’s applications..

    ..Is never off topic

  104. msean says:

    Reverse socialist tory makes anouncement. Remember, when they do this attention gaining stuff,they are usually up to something else without telling you. Tories,never to be trusted,especially those who used to be of the left.

  105. Quarmby says:

    @Douglas MacDonald – Interesting info. One thing’s for sure, he’s not ‘from Glasgow’ as his FB profile now claims. FB gives separate sections of personal info to fill in, one being where you live now (shows on profile as ‘lives in’), and another being your home town (shows on profile as ‘From’). So his misrepresentation of being ‘from Glasgow’ is clearly quite deliberate. What’s puzzling is why he has hidden his English origin everywhere online and claimed he’s ‘from Glasgow’. We in Scotland don’t deal in ethnic politics, but civic nationalism, as witnessed by English, Irish and French-born and multiple ethnicities amongst MSPs. Why does Tomkins seek to misrepresent his place of birth, then? Strange man.

    Anyway, here’s a genuine pic of Tomkins kitted out in a Union Jack from Wings’ FB page. Given his obvious and overt pomposity, I wonder if he realises how stupid he looks in it.

  106. Lollysmum says:

    galamcennlath at 7.32pm

    Thanks I’ll have a search for it.I was actually looking for the one we had to watch at Police Training College back in the 70’s-still searching for that one

  107. yesindyref2 says:

    Wow, just read Tomkin’s “thing”, thanks for the link.

    You could drive a coach and horses, an orange bus and Ruth’s tank side by side through it in search of logic.

    I see it, I wonder if the prospective voters can see it too? Here’s a classic example:

    Happily, recorded crime is falling in Scotland but, despite having fewer offences to investigate, Police Scotland are managing to clear up 50,000 fewer crimes each year than the eight constabularies managed a decade ago.“.

    I guess Tomkins doesn’t understand the principle of cause and effect.

  108. Tamson says:

    I’d say the Tories chances of a list seat in Glasgow are no better than evens, for several reasons.

    1. They pretty much scraped in in 2011: both Ruth and Patrick Harvie were last in the door with under 13,000 votes. They were 2 of the 3 lowest-scoring list MSPs (the other was wee Wullie Rennie!)
    2. Of course, Patrick will be outscoring her this time (though I doubt they’ll get enough for a 2nd MSP).
    3. If UKIP stand in the Glasgow region this time round – they didn’t in 2011 – that’ll hurt the Tories list vote more than anyone else.
    4. Turnout will be up, and most of the additional turnout will be amongst poorer and younger voters. How many of them are going to be voting Tory?
    5. Sheridan could well get momentum in Glasgow.

    Add in the personal factors Tomkins brings – susoect republican and abrasive online persona – and I think the Tories could be toast in Glasgow.

  109. yesindyref2 says:

    (Tomkins): “As soon as the SNP secured their majority in the 2011 Holyrood election it was clear to me that a referendum was coming

    Wow, who’d have thunk it? How very very perceptive.

  110. Robert Peffers says:

    @Lesley-Anne says: 28 August, 2015 at 2:50 pm:

    “Can someone please ensure that he is taking the RIGHT meds … “

    No Lesley-Anne, he was not taking the wrong meds – he was taking the left meds.

    That was why he confused himself about the republican thingy.

  111. Legerwood says:

    Prof Tomkin’s could become the poster boy for the campaign to ensure people vote SNP in constituency and list votes.

  112. Stoker says:

    Tomkins? A Professor? I think we’ve just discovered that DimJim didn’t spend 9 fruitless years at Uni. He must have spent the entire time under Tomkins wing. Nine years studying for a Degree in Pishflappery and he passed with flying colours because he learnt from the king of pishflapping.

    Aye, you certainly learn something new every day on WOS, eh!

  113. Stoker says:

    BTW, anyone else seeing the physical (and mental) similarities between Tomkins & McTernan? Spooky or what? Need i say anymore?

  114. Fred says:

    There’s wiser eating grass! wheel him on.

  115. Graham MacLure says:

    “The mon’s a buffoon” and sadly the only reason I can think of for the unionists to want him in Holyrood is to try to undermine The Scottish Parliament standing by having this misfit associated with it.
    But there again most prominent unionists seem a good few 6 packs short of a piss up.

  116. Iain More says:

    Union Jack condom, it is obviously a Tory/Brit Nat plot to reduce population growth in Scotland. It gives me an automatic droop.

  117. Robert Peffers says:

    @Carmel Townsend says: 28 August, 2015 at 3:03 pm:

    “How lucky Scottish people are to have Wee Ginger Dug and Wings Over Scotland et al, to turn to for information and wonderful detailed writing about the people who rule us.”

    Perhaps not, Carmel, but you could have a wee Ginger Corgi and write a blog yourself.

    “Are you sure we can’t vote SNP in Wales!!!?”

    You could always vote Plaid Cymru. Thier leader has her heart in the right place but lacks a bit in the tactics department. She did, after all, attempt to claim that Wales should get the same per capita funding as Scotland. In doing so she exposed the fact that she did not understand the Barnett Formula.

    This formula is based upon the devolved powers, (and thus the devolved funding), from the United Kingdom Ministries which sets the base figure for England’s per capita funding.

    Thus the N. Irish, with the most devolved functions get the highest per capita funding. Next comes Scotland with the next highest devolved functions and as Wales has less than both of the former Wales gets less.

    The English have no devolved functions but get all their functions funded directly from the UK ministries. That doesn’t stop them claining they are hard done by and are subsidising everyone else with English tax money.

    Forgetting, of course, it is UK tax money and, as the Scottish per capita GDP is the highest of all UK countries, we Scots actually pay more into the treasury on a per capita basis than everyone else.

  118. Brotyboy says:

    acid, L.S.D. or some other well known hallucinogenic drug

    A more limited choice than it may seem.

  119. mr thms says:

    So from campaigning against independence, to joining the Smith Commission, to becoming David Mundell’s advisor, he is now standing for election as the Conservative party at next years Holyrood Election.. At this rate he will be First Minister.. 😉

    One thing.. It doesn’t half make this Guardian article from 20th May 2015 interesting!!

    “The roles of the Scottish, Welsh and Northern Ireland secretaries should be combined into a single “Department for the Union”, the UK should get a written constitution, and secession referendums should be held no more frequently than every 15 years, a thinktank has recommended.

    The call for a “charter of the union”, initially setting out the powers and principles governing the relationship between the four nations of the UK – England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland – has been made by prominent lawyers and academics in a study by the Bingham Centre for the Rule of Law.

    There should be English votes for English laws, according to the review, whose authors include Prof Sir Jeffrey Jowell QC, the centre director; the historian Prof Linda Colley; Prof Adam Tomkins, professor of public law at Glasgow University; and Prof Tony Travers, director of British government at the London School of Economics.”

  120. Tam Jardine says:

    We can expect a fair number of conservative votes on the list in Glasow next year.

    Ruthie got in with 12,749 votes on the list and 4 years after Bill Aitken got in with 13,751 votes (again sole list MSP).

    So we can expect Tomkins to get parachuted in on the list, despite all our righteous indignation.

    Can I gently, half in jest propose that there may be a less offensive conservative candidate in one of the constituencies in Glasgow? I can’t imagine a character I would like less to be elected to Holyrood than this pathetic establishment dick.

    The list seat the tories will probably receive in Glasgow vanishes if one of the constituency tories gets in, no?

    I am normally dead against tactical voting, but it would be quite ingenious to throw a mass yes vote behind tory mcfuckbag in one of the Glasgow seats in order to piss off Tomkins and humiliate him.

    I know… I’ll have to leave Wings now, won’t I?

  121. Dal Riata says:

    Adam Tomkins says:

    “I have not always been a Tory, but I have always been a unionist. I moved from England to Glasgow in 2003…”

    To Adam Tomkins:

    Haw, wait a wee minute here!

    You moved from England to Glasgow in 2003, you say. Fair enough.

    But then, one day in 2004 you took a wee trip over to Edinburgh, did you not?

    And on that day you were up Calton Hill, were you not?

    As the venerable Andy Stewart once sang: “And what was he doing up there?” But you weren’t looking fur yer troosers, were you?

    Oh no! You were not only attending but speaking at a Scottish Socialist Party rally where you called for an independent Scottish republic, weren’t you?

    Ohhhh, yes you were!

    You say you haven’t always been a Tory, which may or may not be true.

    But this one is your best yet: “… but I have always been a unionist.”

    Sorry, but Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!

    Are you the world’s only republican who speaks at socialist party rallies and calls themselves a “unionist”?

    What are you, the world’s worst double-agent?

    Oh aye, and you not only used to call for a Scottish republic, but you also co-wrote a book on that very subject with the respected author Alisdair Gray. That book can still be bought by those who wish to do so. Or, did that not happen and was an event in a parallel universe or sonething?

    You’re being called out as someone who is, shall we say, somewhat economical with the truth, Tomkins. Others may be more forthright and just call you a liar, but we’ll not go quite that far – yet – so we’ll just leave it at that.

    Care to respond?

  122. Graeme Doig says:

    Dal Riata

    That’s been half an hour and no response. Can we call him a liar yet? 🙂

  123. Mealer says:

    Funny.We are talking about a former socialist republican who now is a Tory.Yesterday we were talking about Alistair Darling,who has made the same journey.Greedy,self serving.

  124. Stoker says:

    @ Dal Riata (9.07pm):

    Nice one!
    It somehow made me think of Tomkins as the Mo Johnston of politics.

    For those of you not in the know – Mo Johnston was a semi-talented Scottish badge kissing footballer born and raised Celtic FC daft.

    He played for Celtic, left to try his luck in other countries, failed to live up to the hype, came back to Scotland to sign again for Celtic.

    He was paraded on tv as the prodigal son returning dressed out in the obligatory Celtic top with green & white scarf held over his head, only to be paraded shortly after on the same channels in the red, white and blue colours of Celtics then big rivals Rangers.

    Aye, it’s a strange auld world right enough, intit!
    Mercenaries spring to mind.

  125. JLT says:

    We could do with some new entertainment …and he just might be the chap to do it.

    Should be interesting!

  126. mike cassidy says:

    I know we were discussing shapechanging politicos like Darling in the previous topic —

    but this guy’s move has a serious touch of the “road to Damascus” about it.

    Would love to know what happened — especially as it was so dramatic it wiped 2004 from his memory.

  127. Lesley-Anne says:

    Just back from my local SNP candidate election meeting.

    Great to have Joan McAlpine selected as our SNP constituency candidate for Dumfriesshie. Looking forward to working to get both Joan and Emma Harper elected next May. 😛

    One wee snippet from the rumour mill would seem to indicate that Mundell Junior may well be standing in Dumfriesshire. 😀 😀 😀 This is the guy who is currently on around £35,000 a year as a *ahem* researcher for Mundell Senior. He couldn’t research himself out a wet brown paper bag! 😀

  128. orri says:

    Wonder if it’d be worth taking one for the team and voting tactically at a constituency level to ensure that the conservatives for that region don’t include him?

    Then again perhaps the other prospective list MPs will have something to say about him being parachuted on top of them.

    Failing that we could always all vote Green on the list.

    Or, realistically, we could wait to see if this is all a stunt designed to force the Conservative party into selecting him. The worst that can happen is he does manage to snaffle a list seat and get ripped a new one when he opens his mouth at Holyrood and tries to lecture.

    It’d certainly be interesting if he elbows his way into the limelight in the run up to the election given he sounds a bit like a less interesting version of John Major. Nothing at all racist about it but I wouldn’t be surprised if the list vote around Glasgow plumeted to a new low if they knew he was what they’d get.

  129. mike cassidy says:

    Lesley-Anne 10.12

    It appears to be true

    Which means we can recycle the famous Glasgow Empire heckle about Mike and Bernie Winters.

    Oh, fuck! Thre are two of them!

  130. Chitterinlicht says:

    Its hard to know where to start…

    So i wont.


  131. Lesley-Anne says:

    Hell he can fight the Dumfriesshire seat all he wants Mike but I’m STILL putting £500 on Dumfriesshire to beat the bejezzus out the little s***e! 😀

  132. Onwards says:

    I hope they do pick him as a Tory candidate.

    He seems to reflect the type of arrogant sneering attitude that most Scots can’t stand. Happy when oil falls, or the Holyrood budget is cut by Westminster. Just so long as it might hurt the SNP.

    No wonder Tories are generally seen as the anti-Scottish party.

  133. heedtracker says:

    But none in their Scotland region. Poor old SLabour in Morningside. You can see why Prof T is looking at Scottish opposition, especially a slow eyed dullard like the last SLab guy in Westminster and telling himself his genius is so desperately needed to save UKOK.

    Bettertogether red tory Graun could have at least given all the UKOK loyalists currently running so many Scottish councils a nod but nothing. UKOK northern powerhouse is much like HS2, terminates at Leeds.

  134. Indigo says:

    I was there tonight too Lesley-Anne – would have said hello if I’d spotted you, I had to leave early due to child being in a huff.

    How entertaining that Mundell Jr is standing! Joan should walk it, looking forward to having her as our constituency MSP 🙂

  135. Proud Cybernat says:


    At a meeting in Shawlands Academy, Glasgow, tonight, Scottish First Minister, Nicola Sturgeon, was elected unopposed as the SNP candidate for Glasgow Southside constituency for the forthcoming 2016 Scottish elections.

    In affirming her commitment to an independent Scotland, Sturgeon said: “We have to be patient. I would call another independence referendum in a heartbeat if I thought we would win it. And next time I want to win it. But that is not what the opinion polls are presently telling us. No opinion poll since the referendum last year has put us ahead. We need to be consistently polling around 55% in favour of independence before another referendum on independence can be called.”


  136. Indigo says:

    Thanks Proud Cybernat

    Something similar was implied at Annan tonight, but it was also said that there would be ‘some’ reference to independence in the manifesto, so I suspect they’re giving themselves a ‘material change’ option to call a referendum with a short campaign

  137. yesindyref2 says:

    Son of Fluffy? That would, of course, be MacFluffy.

  138. dramfineday says:

    Well done Stuart – I did enjoy the comparison, it brought a big grin to my otherwise fusty auld puss.

    One A Darling, with his hands on the (greasy?) pole of the banner and the other A Tomkins, with his banter and sharp pen striving for the people’s republic…… couldn’t make it up. Stick in Adam, promotion to the Lords beckons, precedent has been set!

    Anent your paper on the republic (or whatever you called it) you are in good company, who remembers Gordon Broon’s editorialised “Red paper” these days? So with a bit of luck, 40 years from 2004 (or thereby), most folk will have forgotten all about your dalliance with the republicanism. Except, that is, young people who will be fusty old people like me now but have the occasional flashes of memory – a bit like elephants, or so they say.

    Live it down tumshie, you are just another chancer on the make. But I’m sure you’ll fit just in fine.

  139. Lesley-Anne says:

    Indigo says:

    I was there tonight too Lesley-Anne – would have said hello if I’d spotted you, I had to leave early due to child being in a huff.

    How entertaining that Mundell Jr is standing! Joan should walk it, looking forward to having her as our constituency MSP 🙂

    Sorry I missed you Indigo.

    I was down the front with the red bandana on and trying to behave myself. Bear in mind my middle name is Trouble … I’ll say no more! 😀

    As far as Mundell is concerned … like father like son … absolutely USELESS!

    I’m also looking forward to seeing Joan elected as well as Emma Harper from the list. We are going to d kick so much earse in thr lead up to next May. 😀

  140. James Barr Gardner says:

    I was just wondering, I know that I in some family’s it would be hard to cancel the EBC Tax on television!

    What about cancelling for a month especially when you go on holiday for instance?

    What about cancelling for a month prior to the May 2016 Election?

    Would these tactics really screw up the biased EBC. What’s to lose? You can always record all your favourite programmes for that month. Just imagine the panic that would set in Pacific Quay? Feckin brilliant, scare the shite out of these parasitic so called scots.

    Failing that we can always have a wee (min 10k) to gie their wee door at Pacific Quay a we chap!

    I suppose that would make me an angry (separatist) man!

    So what! I am proud to be a Scot and a SNP member, I’am fed up with the wastemonster shite handed down to us from a party that has no right to mandate to rule in Scotland!

    Vote SNP 2 x twice in May 2015 and keep voting and more important recruiting more activists to get the TRUTH across to the Scots electorate, because there is feck all coming from the MSM! Time to picket newspaper sales outlets and let folk know what shite they are buying!

    I am now a confirmed angry man, no fecking wonder!

  141. Democracy Reborn says:

    Tomkins fully endorsed the legal opinion obtained by the UK Government from Professors Crawford and Boyle before the indyref on Scotland’s legal status in international law (and what would happen in the event of a ‘Yes’ vote).

    Some key points from the opinion were summarised in a good blog piece by Derek Bateman last year. They were:-

    • The Treaty of Union is irrelevant

    • After 1707, Scotland ceased to exist in law

    • It was merged into an enlarged England

    • It has no international legal personality in its own right

    • It cannot revert to pre-1707 independence

    I’m looking forward to the Professor explaining to Glaswegians that their country is small, insignificant and simply an appendage, legally, of Mother England. Oh… and also that (unlike any other European country with a population of 5 million) they are too poor and stupid to maintain even current living standards. Yep, I can see the natives lapping all that up, big time.

  142. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Proud Cybernat (11.58) –

    Cheers for that.

    Now we have a definite target to aim at – big question is, what does NS have in mind when she uses the word ‘consistently’?

  143. Lesley-Anne says:

    Just one of the many photo’s taken at tonight’s meeting to endorse Joan McAlpine as our Constituency candidate.

    Caution Trouble was lurking (red bandana!) 😀

  144. Lesley-Anne says:

    I wonder if Mundell senior has gotten over his recent visit to Dumfries yet?

  145. Gordie says:

    While we remain part of the UK we will have numbers of people in the Scottish parliament who represent British political interests. That frames of reference might be important. Ach, he might just save us from ourselves and at only 54 grand a year.

  146. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Lesley-Anne –

    🙂 Good stuff. You look rather fetching in that headgear. I can easily imagine you plunging through undergrowth, wielding a machete, as panicked Nawbags head for the hills.

    P.S. Does anyone know how Heedtracker got on with his lonely task of locating BTUKOKers congratulatory messages to Alexander, Darling, Mone et al?

    Have any surfaced yet?

  147. Paula Rose says:

    I’m sorry to mention this but the right leg looks a bit stained.

  148. Tackety Beets says:

    To view the most heart breaking pics from the Med

    Nip on to FB and put Khaled Barakeh into the search bar .

    WARNING Its truly horrific .

    I’m not posting link , it’s your call to bother viewing the Med Horror !

  149. Capella says:

    @ Douglas Macdonald  7:37 pm

    For those of you, who were enquiring as to where Professor Tomkins was born, I looked up the birth registers for the United Kingdom from 1955 to 1985. it appears that the only Addam Tomkins likely to fit his profile was born in Newbury, Berkshire, sometime during the third quarter of 1969. As a matter of interest, no one by that name has ever been born in Scotland post WW2.

    Good piece of researching there. But he maybe was born in Slovenia as heedy suggests?

  150. Richardinho says:

    ‘I’m surprised if the Tories let this guy join them in Holyrood.

    While I despise Tory policies, now and in the past, they rarely come over as fools. Far from it in fact. Generally the Tories say what they are and what they plan to do, then if the can, they do it. They are focused and the agenda is clear to see. (In total contrast to Lab & LibDems).’

    Scottish Conservatives are fools. Granted, the English variety are what you’d expect of a any right-wing mainstream party, but to even be a Scottish member of the Conservative party is essentially to go against everything that conservatism is supposed to stand for.

    In essence, the Scottish Conservative and Unionist party is not a party of power, it is in fact a party of the powerless; they represent those who defer to the powerful not those who are powerful or who aspire to it. Scottish conservatives are like the gentleman in the picture above: fruitcakes and cranks looking for a pat on the head by the true holders of power like David Cameron down south.

  151. Petra says:

    Tomkins is NOT a fool, FAR, FAR from it, and I doubt very much if Davidson has been involved in any ploy at all to promote him. If he gets a foot over the ‘Tory’ doorstep in Scotland with his credentials she’ll be out on her ar*e as leader, and she knows it. Davie Cameron will be no doubt be backing him (is backing him) all the way … future Tory leader in Scotland.

    He’s not Scottish as per the HeraldScotland: Tompkins was born in England and spent the best part of his life there.

    ‘Tomkins has been involved in various aspects of the independence debate, including advising the UK Government on legal issues surrounding independence as part of an informal group of lawyers put together by Advocate General Jim Wallace. He was one of two independent advisers to the Strathclyde Commission – the Conservative review of how Scottish devolution should work – and has written a series of blogs for Vote No Borders tackling topics such as such as the legal and political “realities” of what independence would mean. But his views on the issue have a personal basis. Tomkins was born in England and spent the first 33 years of his life south of the Border, before moving to Scotland in 2003.’

    “I am English and British, but I live in Scotland,” he said. “My wife is Jewish and American, but lives in Britain as she would see it. My kids have dual US and UK nationality and they are Jewish: so multiple identities feel natural and normal. For me, that is what the independence referendum is all about – it is forcing me to choose, would I want to stay in an independent Scotland as a no supporter? I really don’t want to have to choose between staying in an independent Scotland and returning to the much diminished rump of the UK.”

    ‘Much diminished rump of the UK’ .. speaks volumes IMO! Much diminished especially if we Scots get rid of Trident (check him out). He was born in England but he and his US born wife have chosen to live here. Why? Time for this man to actually listen to the Scots and get real or get out.

    And he has strong links with Israel surprise, surprise and wants to drag us all into supporting them:

    ‘Professor Tomkins has held visiting appointments at the Universities of Toronto, Queensland and New South Wales and the Australian National University, as well as in several Israeli law schools …..

    A leading British law professor has been awarded a prestigious scholarship by the British Friends of the Hebrew University (BFHU) for work promoting understanding between Israel and the UK. Glasgow University professor Adam Tomkins is this year’s recipient of the Hailsham Scholarship, which has been awarded since 1987 to honour the contribution of influential legal academics. Last year he was a visiting professor at the Jerusalem university, where he ran a course on NATIONAL SECURITY. He will return to Israel next May to take part in a workshop with Aharon Barak, the former president of Israel’s Supreme Court.

    His contribution to Israeli Constitutional Law. ’Of Law, Constitutions and Security’ Adam Tomkins

    Don’t let his daft outfits and behaviour blind you to the fact that he is one to be (truly) watched.

  152. Anne Graham says:

    And isn’t just lovely that Oliver Mundell, son of the really very famous David Mundell, will now want to be elected as MSP for Dumfriesshire?

    I suppose, now, he would want these sort of people (him) to be charged the full cost for their rescue and health services.

  153. Helenearth says:

    My opinion of this man was set in stone when I heard him state, at a hustings in Lanark, just prior to the referendum, that: “Britain has been and still is a force for good in the world”.
    As you can imagine, there was an audible intake of breath.

  154. ronnie anderson says:

    Pat Lee shared Hope Over Fear’s event.
    22 hrs · Edited ·

    Notice the Event start has been brought forward to 11am.
    Please share far and wide.
    19 September at 11:00
    George (FREEDOM) Square, Glasgow

    I,ll be there from 9.30 to book our position.

  155. john king says:

    Rev Stu says
    “The Scottish Tories aren’t exactly known for their strength in depth, drawing their current 15 MSPs from a talent pool that would struggle to dampen Michelle Mone’s celebrated deck (not a euphemism).”

    Iain AF Fleming says:
    28 August, 2015 at 3:10 pm
    Um, that’s not Tomkins in that ridiculous suit.

    Eh mouseover?
    (never write anything until you hover over the picture for the hidden message)
    We know,
    its Curly Watts. 🙂
    Carmel Townsend (have we met) 🙂
    “I am English but live in Wales. What wouldn’t I give to have something like WGD here in Wales so that people can wake up to the reality of entrenched Labour at the National Assembly.
    Are you sure we can’t vote SNP in Wales!!!?”

    Knock yourself out just draw a box at the bottom of the voting slip and write SNP in it and put an X next to it, that’ll get a message across!
    notallusenglishareejits says
    “I’d like to see, just for a giggle, the SNP put up a candidate to run for London Mayor and sit back and enjoy the embedded gutter corporate mainstream media absolutely sh*t themselves and go into hyperbolic hysterics.”

    Nothing the SNP does is “for a giggle mate” what we want we are very serious about,
    no sorry I cant keep it up,
    do you have an example of hyperbolic hysteria?
    sounds like fun. 🙂
    TMitJ says
    “Tomkins wrote in his blog “liberation and dignity that comes with work”.

    He’s goading us, he knows very well what he’s saying.
    Ananurhing says
    “Pray tell us more oh great sage.”

    He seems to be magically possessed of the same skills as the great wizard McTernan
    everything he touches turns to skittles… or something like that. 🙂
    Bill Stelle says
    ” I’m disappointed that you have such low regard for those who have sufficient commitment and care for our country to stand for list seat.”
    Eh…I’ll just leave this here

    Quarmby says
    “Except that nobody called list places per se ‘cowardly’. What was clearly meant – except to the terminally obtuse or Unionist agents provocateurs – was that using the list system as a *first choice* in order to slither into the Scottish parliament without facing the test of the electorate, is cowardly. ”

    I dont think a list seat should be an option for a person to get into Holyrood on a first attempt. they should HAVE TO stand for a seat and only after having proven support should be allowed on a second round be allowed to stand for the list.
    Carjamtic says
    “In short,Mr Tomkins,there is no place for you here in the future.”

    Evertime someone says something like this I think this
    NEVER underestimate the stupidity of some people!
    jcd says
    “Glasgow Uni, always been suspect in various ways.”

    Noo what on earth would make you think that?
    yesinderef2 say
    “Good Heavens, it’s Curly Watts from Bettabuy!”

    I knew I wouldn’t get it in first!

  156. robertknight says:

    The Nutty Professor alright.

    Meanwhile, somewhere in England, a village is missing it’s idiot. Local residents are said to be waiting with open arms for his return; holding a straightjacket!

  157. john king says:

    Quarmby says
    “Anyway, here’s a genuine pic of Tomkins kitted out in a Union Jack from Wings’ FB page. Given his obvious and overt pomposity, I wonder if he realises how stupid he looks in it.”

    OMG he’s…he’s…SANITY CLAUSE!

  158. Dorothy Devine says:

    Ronnie , still the horses bahoochie then?
    See you there!

  159. MajorBloodnok says:

    Grouse Beater says: Tomkins is the transgender version of History Woman.

    Wait. What? I thought Jill Stephenson was the transgender version of the History Woman.

  160. john king says:

    Tam Jardine says
    “I know… I’ll have to leave Wings now, won’t I?”

    you dont leave da family, da family leaves you…propping up a flyover!

  161. john king says:

    JLT says
    “We could do with some new entertainment …and he just might be the chap to do it.”

    Thank goad I was bored after we broke oor last toy by winding up his mainspring too much,

    I miss Ian Smart. 🙁

  162. ronnie anderson says:

    @ James Barr Gardner

    What about cancelling for a month prior to the May 2016 Election?

    I am now a confirmed angry man, no fecking wonder!

    No angry enough apparently.

    The parapets no that high you better bend er, or you might expose yourself.

    FFS whits tae be feart of ,but fear itself. We,ve been there done that,Didnt buy thw Tshit then dont buy it at anytime,still on 28th threatening letter.

  163. john king says:

    Mike Cassidy says
    “Would love to know what happened — especially as it was so dramatic it wiped 2004 from his memory.”

    Maybe it was all a dream…that…eh…we were all eh part of?
    f***ked if I know who he is?

  164. Sinky says:

    Unionists in Scotsman this morning really getting worked up over SNP “Control” of the BBC with usual suspects Brian Wilson, Dr Scott Arthur and Keith Howells all hyperventilating.

    Dr Arthur makes crazy claim that Business for Scotland was given undue coverage as it comprised of sole traders and no cross border businesses.

    Better contribution in The National by Pat Kane

  165. mr thms says:

    #Democracy Reborn

    He was in the Smith Commission which all the parties signed up to, is an advisor to the Secretary of State for Scotland and it seems from his selection by the Scottish Conservatives an important role in Holyrood on a new constitution.

    In my last comment there is a link to an article on a report that he co-wrote.

    “The report, entitled A Constitutional Crossroads: Ways Forward for the United Kingdom, also warns that a constitutional clash between Westminster and the Scottish parliament could be triggered by plans to replace the Human Rights Act with a UK bill of rights.

    A refusal by the Scottish parliament to pass a motion of consent could establish different human rights regimes in different parts of the UK, it suggests.”

    Why would a Grand Alliance of the Unionist parties not vote for this?

    So not only will we be voting for a new Scottish Government, we will be voting for constitutional change should the Independence parties fail to win a majority of seats. A ‘mini’ referendum.

  166. pitchfork says:

    Every time I hear his name I can’t help thinking “Battleship Ptomkin”.

    Its an involuntary image that I cant help summoning.


  167. MajorBloodnok says:

    You know if Tomkins does get elected to the Scottish Parliament I think his views on whether it should be abolished will change, as he settles in and starts eyeing Ruth Davidson’s …er… vulnerabilities… I was going to say “eyeing her seat” but that might be misinterpreted.

  168. Nana Smith says:

    and before you all get fed up with me here’s 2 more.

    Lecture by Professor Sir Tom Devine at the Thomas Muir Anniversary Event. Recorded on 25 August in the First Division courtroom, Parliament House, Edinburgh.

  169. ArtyHetty says:

    Nana, thanks for the links, lots of reading to do!

    The ‘fitness for work programme’ really sounds so 1984. The thing is, when England vote us out of the EU, and then the tories scrap the Human Rights Act, people will be even more discriminated against and exploited.

    At that stage, it might be time to go and live somewhere that still considers humans as sentient beings, that’s if we can even get out with a ‘British’ passport. Scary, potential nightmare stuff.

  170. john king says:

    Pitchfork says
    “Every time I hear his name I can’t help thinking “Battleship Ptomkin”.

    Its an involuntary image that I cant help summoning.”

    Every time I hear his name I can’t help thinking “Battleship Ptomaine”.

    Its an involuntary image that I cant help summoning.
    fixed that for you. 🙂

  171. john king says:

    Major Bloodnok says
    “I was going to say “eyeing her seat” but that might be misinterpreted.”

    does he have anamorphic “Panavision”
    there I said it,
    wait for me Tam.

  172. X_Sticks says:

    @Nana Smith

    “and before you all get fed up with me”

    Aye, right!

    As if we’d ever get fed up with your eagle-eyed view of all independence related things.

    Between yourself and Call me Dave there’s not much of relevance that we miss. I’m very grateful for your input 🙂

  173. Grouse Beater says:

    Tomkins: I really don’t want to have to choose between staying in an independent Scotland and returning to the much diminished rump of the UK.”

    Meaning, Scotland is a pimple on the rump of the UK, part of England’s Realm. So long as it is benign there is no need to lance it or remove it.

  174. Muscleguy says:

    I’m not sure on what basis Nicola expects there to have been a major increase in support for Independence since September considering there has not been an Independence since that time. This is despite unionist people banging on about it constantly. But then the rather woeful performance of the Yes Scotland press operation means this is par for the course.

    IF the case for Independence is not being put in the way unionism is constantly then of course support will not rise. Expecting the nasty Tory party govt in Westminster to drive people our way is a tactic, but unless folk are shown exactly how Scotland can do it differently then are they expected to magically think of it themselves?

    I understand why the SNP doubled down on any idea of the GE being about Independence but that was then, this is now. Time to pull finger Nicola. Except all this playing coy with the manifesto means you can’t because the riposte will be ‘well you haven’t confirmed you will seek Independence’. So no such case is being made, only arguments about devolution. I’m with Patrick Harvie, the only devolution worth having is All Of It.

    Is the SNP really our best hope for Independence? I’m less and less sure.

  175. ronnie anderson says:

    @ Nana Whits who,s feed up wie you

    or whitever their name is.

    left the hhtp/ in the last post so reposting.

  176. heedtracker says:

    Prof Tomkinski not saying much this fine UKOK morn on twitter or CiF either but his new red tory fanboys say

    Scott Arthur ?@DrScottThinks 4 hrs4 hours ago
    >@Cheesy_Kobold If we want good government in Scotland, we need talented politicians in all of the parties.

    Tomkinski A talented politician?

    OK its just 140 character tweeting but Prof T and co took that winning vote NO 18 Sept for The Vow fraud, crash Broon’s federal UK, devo-max etc and simply turned it into a weapon to destroy Scottish economy with subsequent broken Scotland pleading to kept by UKOK charmers like Cammers and IDS, maybe within five years too. The sheer loathing of Scotland oozes from this guy.

    And I don’t remember anyone ever actually voting for hard core toryboy Tomkins either.

    Just make him Lord Tomkins of Sloveniashire asap and avoid all the misery and poverty these guys cause in Scotland.

  177. carjamtic says:

    John King @ 7:09

    ooooooft…….cornflakes everywhere 🙂

    On reflection,maybe that particular ‘boiling the frog’ barb should have been saved for baron von roorback of Kirkwall.

    But with sooooo many erse holes to choose from,it’s difficult to decide which one to kick first,I concede you choice definitely in the top ten. ;-)))

  178. Nana Smith says:

    @ArtyHetty Ach just a little light reading for the weekend!

    @X Sticks Speaking of call me dave see his link at 7.27pm

    I have to say I almost followed Peter Finch’s call for action to schreech out the window but worried my neighbours might be alarmed at the antics of the mad bat next door!
    No need to confirm in their minds what they no doubt already suspect hahaha

    and regarding the prof Tomkins

    Easy come easy go, little high little low, any way the wind blows and man does he have a lot of wind.

    @Ronnie I’ll be seeing you on the 19th in George Square, you have been warned XX

  179. Fireproofjim says:

    You can’t be serious.
    The SNP is our ONLY hope for independence.
    Think what they have achieved over the last ten years.

  180. Lollysmum says:

    Thanks for the Tom Devine link for the Thomas Muir event. Just watched it & found it fascinating. I’m originally from Nottingham & having traced my family tree have found that my forbears were involved in the Chartists movement & ended up fleeing to France to avoid English persecution for their beliefs.

    Such a shame that they didn’t also show the trial representation which happened after Tom Devine finished speaking 🙁 If you come across it anywhere please post it.

    You keep on posting your links & I’ll keep following them

  181. Dan Huil says:

    @ Muscleguy 10.20 am.

    “IF the case for Independence is not being put in the way unionism is constantly…”

    Unionism is constantly negative in putting its case. The SNP is our best hope of independence but, as you imply, we must make sure the SNP knows how we feel. I think the Spring conference will be of more importance in that respect than the Autumn one. If we consider ourselves to be the vanguard of the independence movement we must also remember that the bulk of the people in Scotland are the sore-footed infantry who constantly need reassurance and clear-sighted reasons in order to carry on with the fight.

  182. No no no...Yes says:

    Is it possible that Tompkins remains a republican and this move is part of some cunning long term plan to achieve his goal?

    Stage one has been completed- passing the Tories vetting process.

  183. Lollysmum says:

    RISE now live on Independence Live

  184. Capella says:

    @ Petra 4.06 am
    What an appalling series of connections Prof Tomkins appears to be cultivating. Thanks for the links. I wonder what the students of Glasgow University think, especially those studying law?

    In case you missed it:

  185. Tamson says:

    Actually Quarmby, that’s a good idea. No-one should be allowed to be a list candidate, unless they have stood as a constituency candidate and saved their deposit. They can do bothe at the same election, but if they win on the list but lose their constituency deposit, they get passed over in favour of the next eligible candidate.

  186. ronnie anderson says:

    @ John King dont go ordering any concrete , we need Tam at the Wingers night out 26th Sept Alex Graham Bell (witherspoons) West George St Edinburgh.

    Put your names in Quarantine O/T.

    Yessers welcome.

  187. Andrew McLean says:

    I so enjoy reading Wings, A beacon of light in the darkness if you will, but I have noticed a pattern recently, Marxist at university, making a name for themselves as the loudest most extreme follower, then years later we see them at the heart of the establishment. Now what happened to them. These guys didn’t hold their belief, or did the sell out,? Look at the past labour leaders including Reid, and Murphy? Maybe I am getting paranoid in my dotage, but I smell something odd!

  188. Croompenstein says:

    @Nana –

    I missed your links when you were away, you really help hold this place together.

    I watched Sir Tom he really is an ace in the pack unlike those 2 jokers Tomkins and Stephenson. Stephenson going all gooey because they lit up Edinburgh Castle with a union flag..make you seek!!

    I’ll get round to reading your other links today.. keep up the good work Nana 🙂

  189. heedtracker says:

    Is it possible that Tompkins remains a republican and this move is part of some cunning long term plan to achieve his goal?

    No, he’s just one more toryboy from England, defending the power and glory of said England in their Scotland region, with all the usual “Conservative values” these wet farts are inflicting on the worst off in teamGB.

    Or even simpler

    Socialism for the rich, austerity for the poor, nothing shall ever change, UKOK.

  190. Harry McAye says:

    O/T The National really has to get over this obsession it has with the club that call themselves Rangers. They are not even playing today yet they dominate the back pages. My team Hamilton recently defeated Dundee United 4-0 yet there was not one word about it in the Monday edition. There was a huge space given over to a woman’s football match however.

    They are trying to be different in their sports coverage and yet they continue to pander to one half of the gruesome twosome who don’t even play in the top league. No wonder their sales are falling.

  191. Jack Murphy says:

    OT. The BBC and the Referendum.
    Journalist Alex Massie has Tweeted:”Yes,the BBC (and the press in general) was prejudiced against Yes in the #indyref.And rightly so. That’s it’s job.” ! 🙁
    Posted 26th August 2015.
    He is a columnist for the Scottish Edition of The Times,and a regular contributor to The Scottish Daily Mail and the Scotsman!
    Now all is clear—-we knew that all along about the BBC.

  192. Dan Huil says:

    @ Andrew McLean 11.19 am.

    Well, it’s not me, Andrew. I hope it’s not you.

  193. Quarmby says:

    @Petra – “Don’t let his daft outfits and behaviour blind you to the fact that he is one to be (truly) watched.”

    You’re easily impressed, aren’t you? Tomkinson’s love of Israel and all its causes, and his loathing of the concept of Scotland (North Britain, he calls it) and the Scots electorate, don’t bear a moment’s scrutiny as far as commending him to a Scottish electorate. He was a mediocre and obscure academic who sought to use the referendence campaign to promote his profile through joining Project Fear, and the Tories, in the absence of better material, have continued to use him as a useful idiot in the hope that people, like the unenquiring MSM, will be dazzled by his academic tenure and fail to see the lack of substance in his witterings. But his utterances about Scotland then and now are risible in their lack of connection with the reality in Scotland. And his track record is going to severely bite him in the bum. Things like this from his FB page:

    Tomkins may well slither into Holyrood due to the peculiarities of the list system – but he’s by no stretch of the imagination a force to be reckoned with. On the contrary, he’s set himself on a course of public scrutiny which will implode not only his fatuous political pretensions, but his plodding academic career as well.

  194. heedtracker says:

    Come to the greatest art festival in the world, in their Scotland region, piddle all over it

    Future First Minister Tomkins to the rescue soon enough.

  195. snode1965 says:

    @ heed tracker,
    Orwell called it Engsoc I think.

  196. galamcennalath says:

    Tamson says:
    “No-one should be allowed to be a list candidate, unless they have stood as a constituency candidate and saved their deposit”

    I see where you are coming from by suggesting list candidates must prove a certain level of popularity.

    However, the 5% level at which you lose the first vote deposit might just be enough to get one list seat depending on whether larger parties are ‘taken out’ by their number of wins already, and how many smaller parties the list vote is divided among.

    In other words, small parties may quite probably lose deposits across the nine or so first vote seats, and have no candidates who keep deposits. However, on the regional list are entitled to a seat.

    Also, smaller parties may choose not field candidates on first vote seats at all.

    Not a bad idea for larger parties, but not applicable to small parties.

  197. call me dave says:

    Kezia Dugdale:

    Ordinary members to attend Labour Party conference for just £5.

    ‘From whom am I to take my marching orders? From people who have not got sufficient brains and ability to run a whelk stall *’.
    Aye right!

    *Admiral Crighton reference deleted for clarity…It was a comedy by J M Barry for younger viewers.
    This is a prelude to the SNP conference where the issue of independence may or may not be discussed. Labour can then point the finger and say…look at them we had a chat. SNP bad!
    Nothing to do with the labour party being more open.

    Take your £5 to the cafe and have a skinny latte and an empire biscuit!

  198. Capella says:

    @ Quarmby
    Are you confused as well as patronising?

    “Tomkinson’s (sic) love of Israel and all its causes, and his loathing of the concept of Scotland (North Britain, he calls it) and the Scots electorate, don’t bear a moment’s scrutiny as far as commending him to a Scottish electorate.”

    On the other hand:
    “Tomkins may well slither into Holyrood due to the peculiarities of the list system – but he’s by no stretch of the imagination a force to be reckoned with.”

    So all the academic privilege, professorships, access to the airwaves, seats on policy making Commissions, the Hailsham Scholarship, slithering into Holyrood and probably the HoL eventually are of no consequence?

    I wish had his lack of influence. I agree with Petra. Mocking him is fun but he has the last laugh as long as he has powerful friends and backers.

  199. call me dave says:

    I read this yesterday and I thought, OK fair enough, and was genuinely comforted.

    Today I read this and I thought, ‘surely shome mishtake laddie’ and was somewhat troubled.

    It’s the way they tell em!


    I’ll have to read these later. 🙂

    Brushing up my wee speech for my partner’s ‘lib dem’ parents 60th
    anniversary. Meeting them later today for the first time since the apocalypse in May.

    Big day tomorrow! ££££’s invested in making a continuing relationship sustainable.

    Lovely cake too but partner wouldn’t let me go for the empire biscuit design I had in mind 🙁

    Regular viewers will be aware. 🙂
    Hope she doesn’t look at the threads this weekend.

    Footie link later: Maybe.

  200. ronnie anderson says:

    @ call me dave

    (Take your £5 to the cafe and have a skinny latte and an empire biscuit!)

    Am full fat Latte Fek the empire bisquit, ah wid hiv a Ginger Bred man, but knowin ma luck i,ll get Danny Alexander Grrrrr.

  201. ronnie anderson says:

    @ call me dave 11.57 join Labour party for a £1.
    Entrance to conferance £5.
    Vetted at the door.

    Does this not tell us somthing Slab are short on Money. lol

  202. Andy Ellis says:

    Speaking of angry bloggers, I was moved to pen a response to britnat extremist (and Prof. Tomkins fan!) Effie Deans latest blog on my own blog: “Dwelling in a land East of Eden”.

    It seems the “Scottish nationalism = cult” meme is one of those ideas you just can’t kill, no matter how hard you try.

  203. ronnie anderson says:

    @ call me dave Dave grin & bear it Saltire Gumsheild’s from any good sports shoppee,hope that helps lol.

  204. Nana Smith says:

    @Lollysmum I certainly will post if I come across it.

    @Croompenstein Ah thanks Croomps,I just provide links. I read everything but sometimes the stuff I come across just makes me too angry to link. When that happens I have to take a break.

    I honestly don’t know where we could go if there wasn’t Wings to keep us together. Knowledgeable folk willing to share amazes me. Shows the generosity of the Yes side compared to the bitter Nos.

    @call me dave
    Oh dear sounds like my weekend is going to be better than yours. Cleaning out the shed with all the spiders and creepy crawlies is such fun! Stay strong my friend we will survive.

  205. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi Dorothy Devine.

    The Wings presence in George Square will be at the bench in front of the flowers, at the foot of the Sir Walter Scott statue in the centre of the square.

    Ronnie A will be there from 9.30am onwards. The rest of us will get there when we can.

  206. yesindyref2 says:

    Looking at Glasgow region, and fiddling with figures. Say the SNP got 9 constituency MSPs, and the list vote went SNP 61%, Lab 20%, Green 6%, Con 5.05%, Lib 2%, Rise 2%, Other 3.95%. List MSPs go like this:

    1. Lab 20%
    2. Lab 10%
    3. Lab 6.7%
    4. SNP 6.1%
    5. Green 6%
    6. SNP 5.5%
    7. SNP 5.09%

    Switch 3% of the SNP vote to Greens in a “tactical” vote i.e. SNP 58% and Green 9% and you get:

    1. Lab 20%
    2. Lab 10%
    3. Green 9%
    4. Lab 6.7%
    5. SNP 5.8%
    6. SNP 5.3%
    7. CON 5.05% (SNP now on 4.8%, Greens on 4.5%, Lab 5%)

    Nett gain to Greens 0 seats, nett loss to SNP 1 seat,
    Tomkins gets in by a North British whisker.

  207. yesindyref2 says:

    To make a stab at a generalised rule for Green / SSP / Rise / Solidarity list vote, they have to get a minimum of over 5% to be in contention for 1 list seat, 5.5% to be safe. Anything over say 6.5% damages the SNP by taking away SNP voters presuming they are at 50% or more in the list, unless the Green / SSP / Rise / Solidarity vote can get well over 10%, say 11%, in which case they should win 2 seats.

    That’s about the only case where a Green / SSP / Rise / Solidarity MSP gets in rather than an SNP one, without damage to the SNP.

    Between 6% and say 10.5% it’s no gain for Green / SSP / Rise / Solidarity, it’s a loss for the SNP – and a nett GAIN for the Unionist candidate. Worst possible case is around 9-10% for the Green etc. candidate.

  208. heedtracker says:

    Stuffed shirt speaks her dullard mind. No wonder Prof T of BetterTogether Slovenia thinks he can do a better job. Murdoch bringing back that ghastly creep Wade that got off the phone hack charges too.

    “Alex Salmond has been accused of using his spat with Nick Robinson to “foment grievance” about the BBC among Scots.”

    Stuffed shirt no.1 is ex BBC vote SLab Scotland , then MSP for a few months before promoted to Leader of Tory party, for gawds sake.

    Interesting how the old frauds don’t say how many people actually voted for Davidson.

  209. heedtracker says:
    is what these frauds on Scotland call news, or at least its in their news section.

    Pump out this vote SLab/UKOK crap everyday til end of time and that’s them doing their bit for England’s control of their Scotland region. Simples.

  210. gus1940 says:

    When I worked in Local Government there was a rule that once one reached a certain level in the hierarchy personal political activity was forbidden.

    I presume tha rule also applies to The Civil Service.

    If said rule still exists why does it not apply to all those paid for by the state?

    Unless I am mistaken all universities and institutions of higher education are funded primarily by the stste.

    In that case why is Tomkins allowed to campaign actively while being paid by the state.

    Another case is one Scott Arthur who seems to have a letter every day in The Scotsman campaigning for Labour or attacking The SNP.

    I suppose that given the dire situation re circulation of The Scotsman and its shoestring operation his daily letter is their equivalent of a daily political column for which they do not have to pay a journalist.

  211. Quarmby says:

    @Capella – “So all the academic privilege, professorships, access to the airwaves, seats on policy making Commissions, the Hailsham Scholarship, slithering into Holyrood and probably the HoL eventually are of no consequence?”

    No, they’re not – not now that he has made the fatal error of shifting from unaccountable wheeled-on academic, whose academic tenure will dazzle the credulous (and there’s fewer of that category in Scotland with every day that’s passed since the referendum), to political contender. His back catalogue will now have the spotlight turned on it as never before. Assuming he slithers in to Holyrood on the back of the list system – just stop and think what a field day Sturgeon will have with every utterance he makes, or every time Davidson cites her useful idiot as a credible fount of wisdom. That will put his ludicrous history of anti-Scots put-downs, his support for the Zionist state, and his offensive likening of Scotland’s government and national flag to the Nazis into the public domain despite the MSM. And like all academics, he will have professional ‘colleagues’ who will revel in his public pillorying consequent to his attempt to raise himself from professional obscurity through an intervention into Scottish political life via the Tory Party.

    Don’t waste your time building Tomkins up into some kind of bogeyman to Scottish aspirations – he expends a huge amount of what is obviously a lot of spare time trying to do that himself. But outside of hardcore Britnat Tory and media circles he’s seen for what he is – a wannabe whose public pronouncements – such as his blog-of-intent to stand for the Tories in Holyrood – are laughable easy to anatomise into the farrago of hate-driven nonsense which they are. This is a man of hubris, setting himself up for a fall just like Murphy did, and he’ll end up with what Murphy got from Scotland – nothing, even if unlike Murphy his crash and burn takes place in Holyrood.

  212. yesindyref2 says:

    I don’t see the problem there I’m afraid, i.e. someone working for the state but campaigning as an MP / MSP. The alternative in the extreme case is that only independently wealthy people would be able to afford to be a candidate, and that’s the last thing I want to see, a return to Vitcorian and previous days. The Tories are doing that as it is with their welfare sanctions, and NHS in England.

  213. yesindyref2 says:

    Your comparison with Murphy is – quite good 🙂

  214. John king says:

    so how do you square that with Chris Whatley being paid from the (Scottish) Public purse to chair a”non aligned” non partisan body namely “5million questions”whilst publicly aligning himself to the no campaign?

    they can’t have it both ways!

  215. yesindyref2 says:

    The Conservatives got 6.1% in the list vote for the Glasgow region in 2011. Their share of the vote in the GE did drop in percentage terms, but rose in actual numbers of votes. A sensible prediction, with increased turnout in Glasgow perhaps, could be 5% which would put Tomkins on the cusp of being elected or failing.

    I think the Conservatives will be making a mistake if they put Tomkins top of the list in Glasgow. What they need is someone of the calibre of Malcom Chisholm who gained a fair bit of respect during the Ref. He was a Unionist but would have “manned the barricades for the currency union”.

    What the Conservatives need is Scottish Conservatives, not as in ethnic Scots, but with Scottish values. Tomkins is very plainly a UK Conservative, and that would setback any Conservative revival in Scotland, perhaps for many years.

    Should I care? Well, yes. There are a lof of Scots with conservative values, not properly represented by UK Tories. If the Conservatives in Scotland changed to being truly Scottish Conservatives, then these voters might find the representation they deserve. For me that’s a reason for Independence in itself, all parties would then have to represent Scottish interest, and not UK ones.

  216. cearc says:

    Call me Dave,

    Ambulance ‘average time’ figures are rather misleading. They need to at least be shown by region.

    If I called an ambulance and the nearest one was manned and ready to go, it would take over half an hour to reach me. The next nearest around 3/4 hour and a chopper would be about the same.

    So as long as most calls are in more populated areas you can get good average response times but in the summer when there are more people visiting more remote areas you would expect the averages to drop substantially.

  217. yesindyref2 says:

    @John king
    Every report from every so-called “independent” body should have to have a small declaration of alignment at the front of it, and a small political history in the appendix. As in “Chris Whatley is not a member of any political party, but is currently a NO voter”.

    Then anything they say or do can be taken in context by the readers, and a “responsible” media would reproduce that small statement at the foot of any article about both the individual and the body.

    The keyword is “open”, all such so-called independent experts or bodies should be totally open about their memberships and alignments. For instance “IFS has Labour affiliations”, or “OBR has Tory origins and Conservative Government funding”.

  218. handclapping says:

    Its a measure of the man that, when announcing his aspiration to a candidacy for the Conservative & Unionist Party, his first claim to suitability is that he is a liberal!

  219. orri says:

    The effect of “tactical” voting is far worse than that.

    To understand it you need to realise that what you are actually doing using the d’Hondt Method is determining the upper limit of a range of values that for each whole quantity of votes a party gets a seat.

    The SNP in the original example have the last seat so that means it’s 5.0833333. All it takes is for that to drop to under 5.05 for the Conservatives to take the seat. In this scenario that’s at the .5% stage

    In order for the Greens to gain another seat you’d have to transfer at least another 4.2% of the votes. However that drops the SNP total by 1.

    On the other hand if you were a Green supporter being asked to vote for the SNP and there really was in the region of 10% support then you’d risk the middle ground where the seat goes to the conservatives.

    End of the day it seems that neither SNP or Green supporters will gain anything by voting for the others in the list.

    I’d much rather we all just voted for who we wanted as to do otherwise might result in the very result we were trying to avoid.

  220. Fred says:

    Willie Rennie lambasted in todays Nash by Scottish Police Federation head Calum Steele for making political capital over the early departure of Stephen House. Steel points out that Police Scotland’s main problem is lack of funding thanks to cuts imposed by Rennie & his Tory chums. There is also the question of that unpaid bill to Police Scotland for their services at the LibDem Glasgow conference.

  221. X_Sticks says:


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    Support their fundraiser

    These guys deserve our support. I’d urge everyone to make a contribution. Live Independence is important if we really want to undermine the bbc and MSM.

    I’d go as far as to say their contribution to our cause has been up there with Wings, Bella, Newsnet, Bateman and WGD and they’ve done it on a shoestring. Please donate.

  222. heedtracker says:

    In that case why is Tomkins allowed to campaign actively while being paid by the state.

    Anyone anywhere can say pretty much anything they like because this is what’s it all about. Gifts to YES like Dr Scott Thinks or Prof T both work for Scottish uni’s which is completely fine. The more people that speak up on either side the bettertogether.

    Just let them get on with telling us Scotland is merely a shithole of an English region, run by a pretendy Holyrood parliament. It’s all in our favour and look at how the BBC frauds don’t even have the decency to tell us how many people actually watch their fabulously expansive garbage British propaganda. They’re all on the way out and they know it.

  223. Fred says:

    Very interesting antique poster for sale at the Barras this morning depicting the workers assaulting the gates of the House of Lords with a battering ram. The slogan is “Labour Are Coming”. 🙂

  224. manandboy says:

    What did you do in the war, Daddy? The era in which this question was appropriate has gone, but it is soon to be replaced by another. What did you do in the Referendum, Daddy /Mummy?, may become the question of a new generation, and may be asked of other family members too.

    In the case of the two million who voted no, the answers will vary a great deal but the vast majority of them will contain the element of fear, even if this is not articulated. For if one thing is certain about IndyRef, it is that Westminster exercised both the intention and the means to induce fear into the majority of the Scottish electorate. It did this primarily through the No Campaign with all its lies, and the overwhelming broadcasting power of the BBC. This fear remains throughout Scotland. This fear is THE obstacle to Independence.

    Nicola is right to tackle the BBC for she knows that the BBC was and is, Westminster’s most important weapon in the spread of fear at voting times and thereby in the retention of power over Scotland. All the positive messages in the world will not gain Independence as long as that fear is still in place.

    So, looking forward, the Independence movement simply must focus its attention on the task of overcoming the fears of two million residents of Scotland starting with the huge numbers of pensioners who voted No because they believed the lies of the No Campaign and were afraid of losing their pension, but also EU immigrants and small business owners.
    Some fears, in some people, notably those with a long Unionist tradition, will not of course be overcome, but that’s as inevitable as it is intractable ; such fears are in fact part of a different problem altogether.

    So to the many who are wondering what to do and what the Independence movement, including the SNP, ought to be doing, then dealing with the BBC is the way forward . The creation of a level media landscape must be given the highest priority even though all the forces of Unionism will fight tooth and claw to prevent the BBC in Scotland coming under the control of the Scottish Government.

    As for prof. Tomkins, the electorate will take care of him along with the remaining Unionist politicians in the Scottish electorates’ version of ‘The Clearances’.

  225. Tamson says:


    Not sure of your maths there. 5% in a single constituency wouldn’t come anywhere near getting a list seat.

    The lost deposit margin for most Glasgow constituencies in 2011 was around 1200. The list votes required to get in on the Glasgow list was about 10 times that.

  226. yesindyref2 says:

    I agree totally, it becomes iterative when “transferring” support direct from one party to another.

    Basically from a bit of messing around there are points of 5%, 10% and 20% for the smaller parties, where it would have to be slightly larger than these to get them more seats, but if a lot larger but not above the next threshold, loses a seat for the SNP.

    Even as an SNP member I’d love to see the Greens getting say 8 to 10 seats, SSP 1 or 2, RISE 2 or 3, Solidarity 1 or 2, as long as the SNP have the neccessary overall majority to get Indy Ref 2 without being blackmailed. I think the most that could be achieved, depending on individual different regions is 1 in each region for just one of these parties, possible 2 in a very green seat greater than 10%. But the rest SNP. Glasgow could carry 1 green and 1 of the left / radical / whatever, if they co-operated, and then 2 SNP.

    Realistically though it would be better to aim for 2 or even 3 SNP in many of the regions, by getting the SNP vote first above 50%, then above 60%. The “sweet spot” does exist for the SNP, but not really for the smaller parties.

    The thing is that whatever the polls might say, the vote in May may be different not just overall, but particularly in individual regions. Tactical voting is therefore extremely dangerous, if the sole purpose of that tactical vote is to try to increase the pro-indy MSPs. As others have said, just support your party. At least that’s “honest”.

  227. yesindyref2 says:

    It’s 5% in the list vote, i.e. the region vote with 7 seats, not the constituency vote with just one. In the constituency vote 5% would have no chance of winning the constituency. On the list 5% has a chance, at 6% a near certainty.

  228. Dr Jim says:

    Greens at it again

  229. yesindyref2 says:

    From wiki about the regional (list) MSPs:

    Conservative Ruth Davidson 12,749 votes 6.1%
    Scottish Green Patrick Harvie 12,454 votes 6.0%

    SNP 83,109 39.8% 2 list seats
    Labour 73,031 35% 3 list seats.

    SNP got 5 constituency seats, Labour 4. Had the SNP got X% more, it would have been SNP 3 on the list, Labour 2 on the list.

    The last round worked out at SNP 10388 votes, Labour 10433 votes, so Labour took it. Had the SNP got 368 votes more on the list, i.e. around 83477 rather than 83109, the SNP would have taken that last list seat, rather than Labour.

  230. yesindyref2 says:

    In that 2011 election on the Glasgow region list, the Greens got 12,454 votes and got 1 seat on the list. They would still have got 1 seat on the list with 2,000 votes less, or 8,000 votes more. That;s the way the system works.

  231. Dcanmore says:

    This is important, share far and wide…

    From a GP: ‘How the NHS is being dismantled in 10 easy steps’

  232. Dcanmore says:


  233. Paul Martin says:

    Don’t know how Scott Arthur finds the time for his Scotsman column. Like the total zoomer he is, on Thursday night he cycled 5 miles across town from Buckstone to Leith (he has no vote here), just to heckle the SNP candidate at maximum volume, and to call him a liar in public.

  234. yesindyref2 says:

    Luckily for me I don’t do twitter and don’t do facebook, so I have no idea if there is any plot by the Greens to try to steal SNP votes on the list, apart from what I read here.

    But it’s dumb if they do, really dumb, because that game can be played on an actual election, the 2011 elections. On the Glasgow list, the SNP got 83,109 votes and Greens 12,454. Labour got the last – the 7th list seat – by the divisored equivalent of 10,433 Labour votes to 10,388 SNP votes.

    But if you added all the green votes to the SNP, so SNP 95,563 votes in total, the SNP would have taken the Green seat, and for the last on the list would have had 10,618 votes against 10,433 for Labour, and would therefore ahve won that seat, not lost it.

    Nett result of that is Greens -1, but SNP + 2 = a nett gain for pro-indy parties.

    The moral of that story is if the Greens did want to play dirty, the response is far more factual and can be proven with reference to at least one region’s actual results – Glasgow. I can’t be bothered with the other 7 regions.

    Honesty is, as usual, the best policy. Deceit is its own reward.

  235. Capella says:

    @ Quarmby
    I do hope you’re right. 🙂

  236. Clootie says:

    If you look at the list vote details Patrick Harvie won with just over 12500 votes and Ruth Davidson had just under 12500 votes.
    If the greens had gained an increase in votes they would still have had one seat.
    If they had dropped below the Tories the allocation ranking would change but they would still get one seat.i.e Ruth would have been awarded a seat before Patrick.
    The Greens could have lost 6000 votes and still have been awarded the seat.

    The gap from the Green/Tory vote level is considerable and for that reason Labour gained a 3rd seat with a little over 3 percent.

    If people move from Labour then the SNP would take a Labour list position.

    With over 12000 votes the Tories and Greens will keep a list seat.

    Vote Green if that is your Party and closest to your values but it is misleading to suggest they will gain a seat. They would have to double their vote for that to happen.

    If you study the data carefully the best option would be 6000 voters switching from Green to SNP – The Greens would still hold their seat but the SNP could steal a Labour list position

    I would rather settle on Party selection AFTER Independence and get behind one banner for the fight next year.

  237. Onwards says:

    I don’t get the Tories in Scotland at all.

    Conservative ideals used to be about self-reliance and responsibility and competition and self respect. Raising yourself up with hard work.

    But in Scotland, it’s all about shouting how subsidised we are, and how we need to cling on to the coat-tails of our neighbour and hope for hand-outs. Every piece of devolution is resisted or hamstrung.

    They seems to rejoice at any bad news for the Scottish economy, as a way of making their point.
    Oil prices down, hooray !!

    They are all about a dependency culture on a national scale, and trying to keep Scotland down as a country.

    Here it’s the SNP that is the party of aspiration.

  238. Clootie says:


    I put up a post about Glasgow list. I got the order wrong between Ruth and Patrick. However the argument put forward by many remains valid. The Tories will get one seat and the Greens will get one seat (even with a drop in vote)

    ONLY Labour gains with a drop in the SNP list vote.

  239. Capella says:

    @ Onwards
    My explanation is that the Tories represent the rich and they are hugely subsidised by the state. Welfare for the rich, austerity for the poor. It’s the poor who must stand on their own two hobbled feet. The rich must carry on being richly rewarded for… oh whatever.

    He who makes the laws reaps the rewards.

  240. galamcennalath says:

    Tamson says:

    “Not sure of your maths there. 5% in a single constituency wouldn’t come anywhere near getting a list seat.”

    There more than one constituency per region, obviously. My point is 5% at constituency level will lose your deposit. 5% at list/region level MIGHT get you a seat depending how the vote is split.

    “The lost deposit margin for most Glasgow constituencies in 2011 was around 1200. The list votes required to get in on the Glasgow list was about 10 times that.”

    My point exactly. Lists votes are assessed on regions. There are ten constituencies (I think from memory) in the Glasgow region. The level at which people lost deposits on individual constituencies MIGHT equate, when the list votes are added up across TEN constituencies, to the regional list assessment.

  241. yesindyref2 says:

    @Clootie “The Greens could have lost 6000 votes”

    No, they would not have won a seat at all, and 3% vote wouldn’t have taken a seat. Labour won the 7th seat with a resulting 5% after dividing 35% by 7 (4 constituency + 2 list already + 1 to avoid infinity divide = 7).

  242. Schrodingers cat says:


    Your calculation is based on the 2011 results

    The snp won every seat in Glasgow in May 2015

    While it is no guarantee that they will do this in 2016, it is an indication that this is what will probably happen again

    If you believe that this is about to change, then you need to explain your reasoning.
    I can’t see any reason why the voters won’t elect the snp again in all of the Glasgow constituencies

    If and when this happens, your figures are useless, the snp will win no list seats
    Prof thompkins gets elected in glasgow

  243. Lesley-Anne says:

    Just a wee update on last night’s extravaganza in Annan.

    As it was her selection night last night I waived my usual appearance fee. 😀

  244. Grouse Beater says:

    A last boost before the next essay…

  245. yesindyref2 says:

    @galamcennalath “There are ten constituencies (I think from memory) in the Glasgow region”

    9 🙂 Glasgow Anniesland, Glasgow Cathcart, Glasgow Kelvin, Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn, Glasgow Pollok, Glasgow Provan, Glasgow Shettleston, Glasgow Southside and Rutherglen.

    @Schrodingers cat
    Indeed. 2016 will from the current polls be very different from 2011, but at the level of the 6th and 7th (final) regional seat, the principle is the same, though at a level of support greater than 50% in the list, even with all constituency seats the SNP would still gain 1, 2 or 3 list seats if the list vote is high enough.

  246. frogesque says:

    SNP/SNP for me. Didn’t we already have this conversation? I know my brain still hurts! Smiley thing

  247. Capella says:

    @ onwards
    George Monbiot is always pretty clued up on subsidies, aka taxpayers money, going to wealthy farmers and landowners. Let’s leave aside bailed-out bankers’ bonuses for the moment.

    And this years bonanza, kept quiet till after the election:

  248. Democracy Reborn says:


    Good post.

    What we’re seeing is a true coalescence of views between Labour and the Tories since the indyref and GE2015. Witness the back-patting of Tomkins by SLAB activists re his candidature.

    Glorification of ‘dependency’ is the core mutual belief. I actually think for many of them it’s a veneer for Brit nationalism.

  249. yesindyref2 says:

    @Democracy Reborn
    Labour, both in Scotland and the rest of the UK, became far too immersed in the NO campaign for their own good. I think much of that was because of their hatred for the SNP, a hatred which has led to their undoing.

    I think they either have to drop the constitutional issue, put it on a back burner and drop their hatred of the SNP, or wither and die, both in Scotland and the rest of the UK.

  250. Schrodingers cat says:

    83,000 votes divided by 10 is 8,300

    Snp will win no list seats

  251. galamcennalath says:

    yesindyref2 says:
    “Labour, both in Scotland and the rest of the UK, became far too immersed in the NO campaign …. I think they either have to drop the constitutional issue, put it on a back burner”

    They could have played it two ways …

    1) been the party of devolution, as they have claimed, and offered Scotland the level of devolution which so many wanted three years ago, or

    2) stayed officially neutral recognising that their supporters were split ~ 50:50 and let individuals campaign as they wished.

    .,.. and that would have resulted in constitutional progress one way or another AND a future for Labour in Scotland.

    They did neither. Is it too late for them to ‘get on board’ with Scottish public opinion? No. Will they do it? Highly unlikely!

  252. K1 says:

    Frogesque, if you want to do a wee ‘smiley thing’: Do this colon : followed by dash – then a closed bracket )

    So : – ) with no spaces between the characters gives you this: 🙂

  253. The more the Greens go on about tactical voting next year the more it turns people off the Greens as it is a fraudulent lie. If they can lie this easily what else are they willing to lie about just to get elected.

  254. yesindyref2 says:

    @Schrodingers cat: “83,000 votes divided by 10 is 8,300
    SNP will win no list seats”

    No, 83,109 was divide by 6 in 2011 for the first round, not 10. The SNP won 5 constituency seats in 2011, not 9. 83,109 votes represented 35.8% SNP vote on the list in 2011.

    In 2016 the SNP may well get more than 50% on the list in Glasgow, 50% on the same turnout would be 107,933 votes. If the SNP won 9 constituency seats, for the same turnout their vote at 50% would be 107,933 votes dividied by 10 = 10,793.

    On that basis they would win at least 1 list seat, perhaps 2 depending on where the additional 14.2% came from.

    If it was as much as 60% on the list, they would probably win 3 list seats.

  255. yesindyref2 says:

    Agreed. Even now in the Herald, Labour supporters are still fighting the referendum, it’s actually quite pathetic. It means supporting the Tories for Heaven’s sake. There was a post today from a Lab supporter extolling the virtues of Tomkins – a Tory candidate. Oh dearie dearie me, as OBE would say.

  256. heedtracker says:

    It wasn’t a joke

    Adam Tomkins ?@ProfTomkins 2h2 hours ago
    Thrilled and delighted to have been selected today as the Conservative and Unionist candidate in my home constituency, Glasgow Anniesland/Slovenia

  257. heedtracker says:

    Effie Deans ?@Effiedeans Aug 28
    Good luck to @ProfTomkins in getting elected to Scottish Parliament. Scotland needs people like him via @ProfTomkins

    SNPouters boost for Prof T. He’s fcuked.

  258. HandandShrimp says:

    On the constituency vs list thing there are some of us facing the quid pro quo situation. My daughter is a Green and would like me to vote Green on the list…in return she would vote SNP on the constituency vote.

    What to do? Not the worst family voting dilemma ever. 🙂

  259. heedtracker says:

    SNPouters vote anyone but SNP logic on display with toryboy world stuff like this

    “The problem with the pragmatists who oppose Corbyn is that they can all remember when they agreed with him and would like to agree with him now.

    But neither Scotland, nor England is going to become a socialist paradise even if some people try the experiment. The reason is quite simple. Although it would be nice if we were all content to live in a socialist paradise, we never will because it would be necessary to change human nature to do so.”

    If this character is in fact a uni of Aberdeen academic, he/she is living the socialist paradise dream. Everything about his/her life is paid from and by socialist paradise stuff, from his/her pay and pension, to his/her ivory tower uni, GP’s and hospitals that might treat him/her, if him/her gets sick, the police he/she might call for help, the fire engine that will come to save his/her house from burning down and on it goes in public sector toryboy/girl land.

    Public sector tories like Prof T of Slovenia, living at the apex of socialist paradise, say it doesn’t exist, if it does shut it down, vote Tory, vote NO, SNPout…

  260. Croompenstein says:

    Calling Prof Tomkins calling Prof Tomkins… here is what you can do with your union fleg….

    and stick the wee cut oot up yer britnat erse 🙂

  261. Andy Ellis says:

    @heedtracker 5.58pm

    Effie Deans has form in this regard, hence my response to her unreasoning britnat zoomerism and my response in my blog referred to earlier. Glad to see Rev Stu has also weighed in on the comments to her blog.

    is of course quite apparent that Effie is a deeply unpleasant britnat extremist, having labelled pro-independence immigrants treacherous, supported calls for future indyrefs to be banned or delayed for random amounts of years decided by the establishment, and opined that she’d sooner live in the progressive paradise that is Putin’s Russia than in an independent Scotland!

  262. Scoyspine says:

    Anyone else getting fed up of logging on this site and seeing this idiot in his clown suit at the top of the screen?

    If after all this time and anti Scots hostility, people actually vote this Scots Country denier in, they are beyond forgiveness.

  263. galamcennalath says:

    North British? Funny how you never ever hear about the South British or even the Central British.

    Ever thought this island we all inhabit looks a bit human in shape?

    If so, we could be the Head British. The Welsh could be the Chest British and the north of England the Shoulder British.

    Would who would be the Bahookie British? Enough shite certainly comes out of London.

  264. Stormy Weather says:

    I really can not support calling standing on the party list as an act of cowardice. It is just the system we have (and a superior on to the FPTP at that). And somebody has to stand on the lists. I don’t think it is constructive to brand anyone and everyone who is selected as such as a “coward”. Indeed I find it a repugnant word in this day and age generally.

    As far as talk of tactical voting goes – I am a Green party member. I signed up to them in the aftermath of the referendum because I still wanted to be part of the movement for independence in my own way.

    When it comes to next year I will not have the option to vote Green on the constituency ballot. As someone who supports independence my only option is to vote SNP. So I shall.

    On the list I will vote Green because I agree with them on more things and I dislike the SNP on several important issues (also I just don’t like them instinctively, far too much whiff of the central party machine for my liking and rank incompetence and arrogant centralization in aspects of government). I will vote Green not because of any tactical choice or dream of a Yes alliance. I will vote Green because I want to see more Green MSPs in Holyrood and I want them to have a stronger voice in parliament in their own right. If that comes at the expense of Labour and the Tories, great. If it is at the expense of the SNP, I really couldn’t give a toss.

  265. galamcennalath says:

    OTT The conviction of Al Jazeera journalists by Egypt for “spreading false news” appears excessive, to say the least. International journalists should be able to report news as they see it without fear of arrest.

    Many at the BBC in particular should perhaps reflect that Scotland would never consider reacting the same way in regards to “spreading false news”.

  266. Dr Jim says:

    @ HandandShrimp

    And you believe her? Tut Tut

  267. pitchfork says:

    @John king

    Thanks. I think?

  268. heedtracker says:

    Andy Ellis says:
    29 August, 2015 at 6:15 pm
    @heedtracker 5.58pm

    Effie Deans has form in this regard,

    Where to start? Fact is Scots want devo-max, one year later, fcuk all’s changed, UKOK austerity kills thousands. Red and blue tory unionistas can Project Fear 2 all they like but its going to take a hell of a lot of serious BBC propaganda to pretend The Vow was actually delivered.

    Austerity UKOK hasn’t troubled tory teamGB middle classes like Effie or chancers like Prof Tomkins and Corbyn will be absolutely slaughtered by BBC etc. So its likely toryboy teamGB will last for another decade and more, even with PM Osborne. But EVEL and Brexit are coming and none of that can be bullshitted away by the Pacific Quay creep show.

    Poor Corbyn. BBC, Murdoch and co destroyed likes of Michael Foot and Arthur Scargill and JC is also going to be UKOK crucified. Has JC got the cojones of a vile separatist though? We’ll find out soon.

  269. Dr Jim says:

    Every time this tactical voting thing comes up has anybody noticed it’s always the Greens being ever so reasonable and nice about the complete and total invention of insane statistics to prove their point

    It never seems to be about anybody else

    Seeing as how I’ve just stared into my crystal ball, read my own palm and done the Tea Leaves as my alter ego “The Great Romboni” mind reader to the stars I’ve come up with the answer

    Vote for whomever you want, it’s legal, just stop trying to kid folk on it’s for their benefit

    (Be free to be who you wanna be)we understand, It Aint easy being Green

  270. Clootie says:

    yesindyref2 says:
    29 August, 2015 at 4:09 pm
    @Clootie “The Greens could have lost 6000 votes”

    I stand corrected. You are right of course. I made the schoolboy error of looking at the next on the list (Respect Party) instead of looking at the residual votes and of course the SNP would have taken the seat from the Greens with a much lower, but sizeable, drop in vote. Would you agree to a figure of around 3000. They could drop votes to a value just above the SNP remaining votes and win a seat

  271. Schrodingers cat says:

    I know what the 2011 result was
    But even your own estimate of 50% snp list vote, 100,000/10 is 10,000

    Not enough to defeat the Tories on 12,000 from 2011

    I joined the snp when I was 16, just after the 1979 fiasco, it was a small group of us who carried the fiery cross for the last 35 years, trying to convince the people of Scotland that independence was the way forward. We have got to where we are today, by not calling people liars. It is possible to argue for and against tactical voting without insulting people. Try being a little less cynical
    Just so as you know, the snp will wipe the unionists of the map in the constituencies next May. Last I heard, Cameron was talking of an eu referendum in June. We could be looking at indyref2 in sept next year and we will need everyone onside, including the people you are calling liars?

  272. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @galamcennalath (6.24) –


    If you haven’t heard it before, you may find this amusing:

    The Waterboys, ‘Islandman’ –

  273. Schrodingers cat says:

    Living at the arse end of an un collapsed 11th dimensional probability wave, I know a thing or 2 about probability

    No one would be happier than me if the snp got more than 60% of the list vote in Glasgow next May! except that we are currently sitting at about 53% in Glasgow. Not sure where you think this surge is coming from? I hope you are right otherwise, heeds girlfriend jaserna will be elected. His posts on cif were dull enough, imagine having to listen to him droning on in holyrood?

  274. MajorBloodnok says:

    Tea and a biscuit anyone?

  275. Schrodingers cat says:

    jc gets crucified
    No doubt about it

    Which leaves fifi with a dilemma , she can’t say anything about trident until after the leadership election and if the roumours of jc,s immenent demise are correct, she still won’t be able to say anything until the blood on the carpet is hurriedly tidy away 🙂

  276. Tam Jardine says:


    Can we just all agree now on a mechanism whereby George Osborne being elevated to Prime Minister triggers immediate construction of barricades, UDI etc.

    We could prepare for it, get the paperwork drawn up and give the UN and EU fair warning. No messing about with badges and votes. Same goes for Boris.

  277. @Schrodingers cat

    When is a lie not a lie?

    There are inadvertent lies and when people are questioned on it they say sorry I didn’t have all the facts or some other excuse.

    But when someone deliberately spreads a falsehood as Greer is doing to get elected I will call them a liar as that is what they are just like Blair and WMD in Iraq. I don’t want a known liar in Holyrood when it is preventable if the Green party took a long hard look at it.

    Known fact tactical voting does not work in our electoral system to say otherwise is lying and those saying otherwise are liars.

    What do you suggest I call them? Ignorant arseholes or perhaps naive.

  278. Schrodingers cat says:

    What sort of biscuits?

  279. Croompenstein says:

    Old Cochers is surely going to congratulate the newly anointed Baron von Blinkoften especially as he has feasted on Mrs, sorry Lady Flipper’s fish lasagne. Or was it succulent lamb dunno but Lord Flipper won’t have to worry he will get free gratis fois gras washed down with a bottle of Chateau de Chassilier on the house.. and we are paying.. 🙁

  280. HandandShrimp says:

    And you believe her? Tut Tut

    Dr Jim

    On this, certainly…on the claim she has no idea why her mobile phone bill (which I pay) is so high….the jury is out.

    I am partial to chocolate gingers if there are biscuits being offered.

  281. yesindyref2 says:

    On the same turnout as 2011, 50% would be 107,933 votes. If the Tories kept the same vote then yes, 10,793 votes would be less than the Con vote of 12,749 votes = 6.1%, but if (if) the Conservative list vote dropped to 5%, they would have 10450, so the SNP would have more votes.

    Yes, it’s all alternate universe stuff and conjecture, and that’s the problem, nobody knows, so nobody should vote tactically on the list to try to make the uncertain happen.

    @Clootie, in 2011 Labour got the last seat on the list, the 7th, with 10433 votes, so if the Greens had dropped then by more than 2,020 votes Labour would have won the 6th seat, Greens would have won the 7th, but if they ahd dropped another 45 votes they would have lost that to the SNP and got zero seats. They could fairly safely have dropped 2,000 votes, though there would have been a few redhot calculators.

  282. yesindyref2 says:

    Tunnock’s teacakes for me. Shame about the provenance, but the cakes are kind of gooey and very tasty. Time for a cuppa!

  283. Paula Rose says:

    Um – where’s the cartoon? (apologies if mentioned above, been at the Brechin music fest. this pm)

  284. yesindyref2 says:

    I look at it this way with the tactical voting thing. Say all the pro-indy parties got together, carefully checked out the latest detailed by region polls, 1,060 polled in each region (3% margin of error), and actually agreed a strategy.

    And it all goes horribly wrong. The recriminations really could split the wider YES movement from backside to the good ship venus and all who sail in her. And rightly too, it’s basically a cheat.

    On the other hand if SNP voters vote SNP, Green vote Green and RISE vote RISE, then that’s honest and above board, and nobody can complain, even if it does go wrong.

  285. ronnie anderson says:

    @ heedtracker 5.48 nothing new or original in the North Britains ramblings, its all been said in Holyrood.

    Tomkins the copy & paste arsehole.

  286. yesindyref2 says:

    I’d like to see, a well as the regions, a supra-Scotland list vote, where any party with 5 or more, or even 3 or more seats, didn’t compete, to allow the real minority parties to compete for 2 or 3 special seats, to get minority representation.

  287. Schrodingers cat says:

    When is a lie not a lie?
    Actually, what I was trying to say was sometimes it is better to temper your language, for the greater good of the Indy movement

    Greer, no love lost there, I fell out with him on bella when I tried to convince him that the greens should not stand against the snp in the ge, still, he did support yes so I would argue rather him than prof Tompkins
    I was in the war in Iraq, I was there giving it laldy with my machine pistol when you were back here countin’ fuckin’ socks. So don’t teach yer grunnie to suck eggs

  288. Graeme Doig says:

    Croompenstein @ 6.12

    🙂 Like it. I’m partial to a wee bit positive action. Small rebellious acts all keeping our culture and identity moving towards independence.

  289. Onwards says:

    Greens/Rise/Solidary could end up getting 5% each and bugger all seats.

    If the SNP are polling high on the constituency at the time, and it’s still a long way off, then the only way to consider a different list vote is to have a united alternative. That just isn’t going to happen.

    The way I see it SNP/SNP worked last time.

    Fragmenting the pro-independence vote could be a disaster, especially if the SNP fall short in constituency seats.

  290. Onwards says:

    Schrodingers cat says:

    ..”imagine having to listen to him droning on in holyrood?

    This guy Tomkins getting elected for the Tories isn’t the worst that could happen.

    How is he going to help them ever make a comeback?
    It’s not as if he is some charismatic or likeable character.

    Just another Tory whining on about how useless the Scots are and how we could never make it as a normal sovereign country.

    Just reinforces the negative image of the Tories as the anti-Scottish party.

  291. Dr Jim says:

    @ HandandShrimp

    Chocolate Gingers is it? Chocolate Gingers?

    If it doesn’t come out of Aldis I don’t have it
    You’ve got some expensive taste there my man, I only get the 38 pence Yellow Biscuits two in a pack for the tea

    And Mrs Dr Jim eats them all

  292. Fred says:

    Border Biscuits, Chocolate Gingers are the jinkies! 🙂

  293. @Schrodingers cat

    I was in the war in Iraq, I was there giving it laldy with my machine pistol when you were back here countin’ fuckin’ socks. So don’t teach yer grunnie to suck eggs

    Wow so killing people and destroying a country in the process makes a lie acceptable in your eyes, I would be feeling shame in being conned. I don’t count socks as the ‘L’ and ‘R’ makes sure they don’t go on the wrong feet that is until I forget which is left or right.

  294. cirsium says:

    thanks for the very interesting links, Wingers.

  295. Tunnocks owner said before Referendum,

    “I’m not frightened to say that I’m a Unionist. But I’m actually a Nationalist British. I want the United Kingdom.”

    enjoy yer teacakes.

  296. heedtracker says:

    I hope you are right otherwise, heeds girlfriend jaserna will be elected. His posts on cif were dull enough, imagine having to listen to him droning on in holyrood?

    @Schrodingers cat, what a gal the Professor still is for the old CiF. I used to ask Aleisbadas to write one of his long “YES Scots are arrogant stupid fascist nobodies” CiFs actually in his native Slovene tongue but it got disappeared by Graun mods.

    So I asked her again and that disappeared, so I kept asking and they kept deleting it, then I got blocked. Which is just not British, or Slovene:D

  297. Tam Jardine says:

    I read tomkin’s piece on his north britain thing and couldn’t help feeling a little sorry for him. This group of ultra unionists have this idea that everyone who voted Yes or SNP are obsessed with Independence, and that the SNP are obsessed with Independence to the detriment of all else.

    Words like ‘obsession’ are levelled at SNP supporters all the time, perhaps hardly surprising as it is the party’s driving force. Am I obsessed with Independence? Undoubtedly. I see it as being the best way forward for my country and all who live in it.

    Not everyone who votes SNP voted Yes in the referendum and certainly there are many SNP voters and Yes voters who are far from obsessed. Many people are fairly lethargic when it comes to politics, even in super politically engaged Scotland. The viewing figures for Scotland 2015 (5,217 is the latest viewing figure reported) are testament to that lethargy (and the show’s quality of course!).

    What tomkins doesn’t seem to get, what the rest of these hardcore unionists dinnae get is if they think we are all maniacs obsessed with independence, how much worse it is to be obsessed with these maniacs to the detriment of all else.

    Night after night the twitter streams and blogs of Duncan and Effie Deans and the Slovenian and the crazy one are just one anti-SNP tweet after another, all swirling round in gloriously frothing indignation. If we are all obsessed, they are obsessed with obsessionals. Which is a bit strange. I doubt a single one of them would accept such a description, but in any sober assessment that is undoubtedly, certainly the case.

    One other thought occurred to me after reading the Tomkin’s blog: what should all the other country’s of Europe do who cannot manage to look after their own affairs, who are unable, as Scotland seemingly would be to run their own economies, feed their citizens properly, who have failing healthcare systems and education, without the resources and wherewithal to manage in the 21st century?

    What should all the basketcase countries of Europe who struggle do? Tomkins is certain we would be a basketcase so what does he think Italy should do, for example? Or Ireland? Or Spain? Or Portugal? Or Malta? Or Iceland? Or Poland? Or Bulgaria? Or Romania? Etc Etc.

    None of these countries would be suitable for independence according to Tomkins criteria. If the biggest oil producer in the EU cannot survive then what hope has Portugal or Ireland got, for instance? What does he think they should do? Will they just wither and die? Should they be consumed by more powerful countries, as we have been? Invaded perhaps? Mass suicide?

    Or should they manage as best they can and try and improve the lives of their citizens and plan for the future. All their anti-SNP rhetoric and anti Scottish bile amounts to one startlingly nonesensical fallacy- that countries cannot be independent- they have to be controlled by Westminster.

  298. galamcennalath says:

    Scot Finlayson says:
    “Tunnocks owner said before Referendum … I want the United Kingdom.”

    … And I do wonder if this current situation is what he wanted?

    Scotland ruled in most matters by a party which has little support, its lowest since 1865 to be precise.

    Not only that, but said rulers have a ruthless uncaring right wing agenda and intend forcing it upon us, one way or another.

    And to achieve this continued United Kingdom we were lied to and deceived. Pensioners were intimidated and promises of meaningful change within a Union reneged upon.

    Is he actually proud of this United Kingdom?

  299. yesindyref2 says:

    @Scot Finlayson says “Tunnocks owner said …”

    Yes I know. He’s entitled to an opinion. Who knows, he might become a YES voter? Put it this way, 55% said NO at the referendum, it’s not much use to us if they stay that way …

  300. maxikerr says:

    Beware the bells and whistle show as this distraction will try and hide something more sinister, whis is taking form with the Westminster unionists.

  301. Graeme Doig says:

    “It is like a driver coming to a roadblock on a road they’ve never travelled before and three grizzled old veterans say, ‘Don’t go any further, we have been up and down this road many times and we’re warning you that there are falling rocks, mudslides, dangerous hairpin bends and then a sheer drop’; and the driver says, ‘Screw you, stop patronising me. I know what I’m doing’.”

    Blair’s latest verdict on corbyn’s popularity. Seems to overestimate the regard the membership have for the ‘three grizzled old veterans’ (Blair, Brown and Kinnock).

    Deary me. The Ego has crash landed.

  302. galamcennalath says:

    yesindyref2 says:
    “he might become a YES voter… it’s not much use to us if they stay that way”

    Indeed. However, I suspect the hardcore BritNats will be the harder nuts to crack.

    Much easier to convert are the ill informed who believe the NHS is a UK wide institution and therefore only safe with the Union. Or, the older voters worried about their state pensions. Or, better off older people who believe their savings will evaporate if we aren’t allowed to use the pound. Or, those who believe we are safer against external threats within the UK. Etc etc etc.

    There is a great deal of evidence about why people voted NO. Most of the reasons, to my mind, can be dealt with next time. Chip, chip … we only need to convert some to win.

    As for Mr Tunnock, he may or may not be among those with an open mind.

  303. Democracy Reborn says:

    @Tam Jardine

    I’ve posted on some of the points you raise before.

    As far as those other European countries you mention, the UK is around 27th in the world in terms of GDP per capita (and one of the most unequal) based on IMF/World Bank stats. Most comparable sized European countries to Scotland are above the UK. I remember unionists using the phrase “Scotland would be as poor as the Irish” if we were independent (an interesting combination of insults). Ireland is around 13th in the world in terms of GDP per head.

    Ask a unionist to give a cogent reason why we should accept this state of affairs, and you’ll be waiting a long time. Apart from, of course, that we’re too poor because…. well, we just are.

  304. Graeme Doig says:


    Not that i give a stoats fur coat about the Labour party and it’s machinations. Just found Blair’s state of mind interesting. 🙂

    BTW source was BBC reporting Observer today. No link. Having a sneaky peek.

  305. Dr Jim says:

    Private polling shows 52% YES but no Referendum until it gets to 55% and a definite win

    Don’t ask about the polling but it’s genuine 3% more and we’re on

    I am not here I did not say this

  306. Papadox says:

    Prof. Tomkins, why are you living in a society you detest, in a foreign country you detest? Are you happy trying to educate the thick jocks or is it just a time filler until something more rewarding turns up. Last but not least are you in anyway however loosely involved with HMQ intelligence or communications services?

    Or perchance are you just a shit stirrer?

  307. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Who are the people, working behind the scenes, who daren’t lose Scotland?

    Have been trying to locate footage of braying bankers (specifically, a chinless wonder popping a bottle of champagne, which is often used in review-type progs dealing with ‘Thatcherism’) from way-back, but no joy. This is the closest I could get to it.

    So hard to believe this was almost 30 years ago. One can only imagine what some of these characters are doing now –

    ‘Yuppies In The City’ (BBC) –

  308. heedtracker says:

    Interesting vote anyone but SNP spin on teacher shortage. How come there’s no toryboy photo in the England report and another day of Sturgeon bad kicks off in teamGB

  309. Ian Brotherhood says:

    This piece, about London insider trading etc contains a very interesting reference to Scottish Power @ approx. 14.30 mins:

    ‘Cityboy’ –

  310. HandandShrimp says:

    Kezia intends to stop control freakery at Labour conferences with the BBC managing to find a picture of Kezia looking…well a wee bit manic.

    Interestingly it says that they have 17,000 members. Given that the interest in Corbyn has resulted in over 60% increase in members UK wide does that mean that that they did actually have only 10,000 members before? Or has the Corbyn effect had no impact on their numbers in Scotland?

  311. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi Tam.

    Apologies for going O/T but you haven’t intimated that you are going to attend the ‘Wings Over Edinburgh’ get-together on 26th September.

    As the organizer of the first Edinburgh get-together we feel it ill behoves you to ignore ‘Wings Over Edinburgh 2’.

    Check out ‘off-topic’ and Quarantine for updates.

  312. yesindyref2 says:

    @Dr Jim
    Yes, 55% as the target was what I heard as well. And of course there’s no point calling Indy Ref 2 until almost certain to be a YES. Patience is not my strong point! Ah well.

    Good to hear about the 52%, slow but steady wins the race.

    I’ve talked to NOes who decided last minute, and they’ve said they’re still undecided. It seems some are moving over bit by bit.

  313. Schrödinger's cat says:

    don’t count socks as the ‘L’ and ‘R’ makes sure they don’t go on the wrong feet that is until I forget which is left or right.

    Feel free to stick 2 pencils up yer nose an go
    Wibble wibble wibble

    Then come back once you have grown up and are capable of forming a coherent argument and sentence, until then stick to delivering leaflets

  314. Democracy Reborn says:

    O/T (apologies)

    Kevin McKenna having a real rant in the Observer with another SNP-bashing piece. Police Scotland get it in the neck too. The theme is the usual ‘crisis’.

    The police are a “necessary evil”. Stephen House going early doesn’t solve anything. Michael Matheson is “hapless”. Reduction in crime figures bear no relationship to reality (Kevin doesn’t cite/link any evidence). SNP are a “conservative and acquiescent administration” which, although it holds itself out as being “edgy”, has all the radicalism of “the social committee of an over 60s glee club”.

    Some cops are “psychotic”. Sturgeon needs to get to the bottom of things, but Kev has no confidence she will. He manages to bring up police behaviour during the miners strike, Hillsborough and the WM paedophile scandal. Oh… and it’s a Masonic brotherhood at the top of the cops holding it all together.

    Do hacks write their Sunday bylines through the mist of a few red wines?

  315. Dr Jim says:

    @ Yesindyref2

    Nobody’s doing much talking right now and I take that as a sign there’s plotting going on

    I do know there’s a move coming about SNP record from the First Minister, looks like she’s going to come out in attack mode, I reckon Labour and Tories are about to get their heads kicked in,

    FMQs on Thursday maybe that’ll be the wee public event to get hostilities under way

    Note: Must get The Fox’s Biscquits in

  316. yesindyref2 says:

    @Dr Jim
    It wouldn’t surprise me if some things are under wraps right now. It also wouldn’r surprise me if FMQs and “off-topic” questions or remarks from Labour, Conservative and even LibDems weren’t used for similar off-topic replies which might wipe off a few smiles and sniggers. Luckily for us the Unionists are still fighting Indy Ref 1.

    The SNP is in a hard place because the YES Movement wants – movement. Including many / most of the 85,000 new members. The SNP know this, and the only way to manage this is to get support for YES on the increase I think.

    I’m not even going to guess!

  317. call me dave says:

    Boy! Danny is making a comeback but not in Scottish elections.
    Probably wriggle into a contest daun Sarf in 2020!

    Shame, because it would be excellent to see a repeat of his humiliation in North Britain.

    Kevin McKenna in Observer says:

    Trust and confidence in our police force on the streets in Scotland have never been at lower levels.

    He also has a gone off on a rant about policing, politicians and the masons in the context of the UK. A blunderbuss approach to a serious matter.
    There is work to be done, no question, but it’s a bit OTT.

  318. Jim says:

    That Newsnight focus group discussing the Labour leadership race; wow; just fucking wow.

    If they are indicative of former Labour voters then Labour should thank holy fuck that they shifted their loyalties elsewhere.

    Can anyone name the candidates standing for the leadership of the Labour party was one of the questions posed, answered with er, um there’s that guy who’s policies are straight from the sixties, ad nauseum.

    On and on it went with leading questions from the Interviewer eliciting a ‘Corbyn bad’ response.

    Negative enforcing soundbites alluding to, ‘Corbyn bad.

    This was a poor hatchet job on Corbyn using the services of a focus group consisting of people that you wouldn’t trust with a spoon and fuzzy felt.

  319. Roll_On_2015 says:

    Hi Stu

    I see that one of your old muckers, Ian Taylor, is back on the scene.

    Apparently he was last seen knocking on Wee Ruthies door.

  320. john king says:

    “@John king

    Thanks. I think?”

    I thought I had put this up last night,
    I must have left the http// on by mistake. 🙁

    take two,
    my favourite song

  321. Tam Jardine says:

    Brian Doonthetoon

    There is nothing quite like spending time formulating my muddled thoughts into a post late on a Saturday night only to be given a public rebuke by someone I barely know. Give me a break Brian you’re no my faither. I’ll be at George Street as I intimated to Ronnie when he announced it.

    Have a good Sunday

  322. Tam Jardine says:


    What’s going on with radio Scotland? First we had a programme on the history of the SNP, now we have a long interview with Jim MacColl on his flourishing shipyard and it’s rosy future.

    Are they getting their pro-indy balance out of the way before 8am on a Sunday morning? Is that the SNP hour to balance the rest of the week?

  323. Effijy says:

    From an earlier link-

    The Labour party now has more than 28,000 people in Scotland signed up to help its campaign, made up of more than 17,000 members – almost 3,300 registered supporters and almost 8,000 affiliated supporters.

    So they have 28K Scots signed up and ready to help their campaign?
    No they don’t!!!!!!

    They have 8K with memberships that allow them access to a Club
    that offers cheap drink and a game of snooker, they have 3K who would like them to do better, wouldn’t we all like them to find some principles and policies, and finally, their new Dipity Leader had only 7K people in a Nation of 5.5 Million, who were willing to “help” by placing a X on a ballot paper!

    Lowly Milton Keynes Dons FC average attendance is over 10K, another team who are unlikely to win anything.

  324. CameronB Brodie says:

    Zionist = (anti-Semitc) colonial imperialists = Prof. Tomkinson

    The Professor’s views on Scotland/Britain and Israel/Palestine, appear to show the same lack of respect for the basic human right of self-determination. This consistency suggests his views are heart felt.

    Along with the zeal of the professor’s ultranationalism and his brief dalliance with populism, this lack of respect for human rights suggest the professor is a full-on neo-fascist.

    Wanker on stilts.

  325. Stevie says:

    Sigh… I thought it was blindingly obvious (given the Tweet pic) that the man in the Brit-flag-suit was not the Tomkins bam.

  326. ahundredthidiot says:

    Schrödinger’s cat??

    Thick…..or drunk?

    Maybe both

    Walter Mitty toboot

  327. Tomkins isn’t the problem, it’s the usual M.S.M overkill of giving publicity to anything he, or for that matter, any other jumped-up unionist has to say. All, to the detriment of the Scottish people.
    If it wasn’t for a compliant media, we would never hear of these blowhards. It’s been going on for an awfully long time now, the propaganda that is, and will only gain in it’s ferocity in the run up to the next referendum. So be prepared.

  328. galamcennalath says:

    CameronB Brodie says:

    “Along with the zeal of the professor’s ultranationalism and his brief dalliance with populism, this lack of respect for human rights suggest the professor is a full-on neo-fascist.”


    Wiki …
    “Neo-fascism usually includes ultranationalism, populism, anti-immigration policies or, where relevant, nativism, anti-communism, anti-marxism, anti-anarchism and opposition to the parliamentary system and liberal democracy.”

    Perhaps not just the professor. That little definition could just as easily be levelled at the whole collective of WM / Establishment / Rainbow Tories / Anti-Corbyn / MSM / Anti-Scottish democracy .

  329. Alan Mackintosh says:

    Stevie, it was already obvious that it wasnt Ptomkin from Rev Stu’s rollover caption on the pic above.

    Cameron, Yes the “prof” does seem to be a good ‘ole neocon fascist. Wonder if he’s been on the induction program that Murph and wee Dougie went on in the States. Mebbe he only gets that gig if he manages to get his foot in the door.

    Wonder if anybody here is/was a student of his at Glas Uni. Is he any good at his supposed job?

  330. JBS says:

    I’m not a member of the SNP but sometimes I could hug Nicola Sturgeon:

    ‘Asked who she wanted to win, she said: “I’m not that bothered. I don’t look at the Labour leadership contest and find myself quaking in the corner.” ‘

  331. heedtracker says:

    Another day of Scotland region’s a shit hole from The Guardian but there’s an another defence of the BBC too, you have to get to the bottom before our imperial master puts the boot in. Slamond only gets a link but answer back to future Lord Robinson and they do not like it

    “Now, of course, I’m not being fair there. I’m very much on the side of Nick Robinson when Alex Salmond starts feeling his sporran. I think the BBC gets a lousy, bullying time from the political classes. I wouldn’t let any politician – from Corbyn to Osborne – loose on an “impartiality” rampage. I’m pretty dubious about Ofcom, and its political appointees, adding full BBC regulation to a stretching power portfolio. But the corporation needs friends, not more enemies. it needs settlements, not schedule clashes. It needs a strategy for survival. It needs, as its own head of strategy affirms, to begin “winning hearts and minds”. And somehow, amid rather too much muscle-flexing and too many instinctive land grabs, that message doesn’t always seem to be getting through.”

    Poor four thousand million quid a year babies, sorry CBeebies.

  332. CameronB Brodie says:

    Kezia intends to stop control freakery at Labour conferences with the BBC managing to find a picture of Kezia looking…well a wee bit manic.

    Manic? Naw, that’s the look of composed gravitas one can only aspire to after attending the Duncan Hothersall School of Glaikit. 🙂

  333. Grouse Beater says:

    Here’s your weekend entertainment:

    ‘RISE’ – which stands for Respect, Independence, Socialism and Environmentalism, is another attempt to construct a pot pourri of a political party to show ‘the people’ the SNP is lazy, backward looking, slothful administration.

  334. One_Scot says:

    With regard to Nicola sturgeon being asked who she would prefer to win the Labour leader election, I would not be surprised if Alistair Carmichael is currently leaking out some crap that he swears he heard Nicola telling her old French teacher.

  335. Onwards says:

    @Dr Jim,

    Don’t agree with setting any 55% target before a referendum. It should be called whenever there is a judgement it can be won.
    Indy support went from 30% to 45% during the campaign.
    Support naturally increases when the focus is on the constitution.
    Otherwise people get used to the status quo.

    A starting point of 45%-50% in a few years gives a solid base to build on.
    50.1% is enough to win.

  336. X_Sticks says:


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    Support their fundraiser

  337. Dr Jim says:

    @ Onwards

    55% seems to be the consensus of opinion within the party that a Referendum can be won from there because if the vote were to be lost again we’d certainly have huge opposition to ever getting another one soon after if at all

    I’d have it now but I can see the point, we have to win big, or at least by as much as we lost the last one

    3% shouldn’t take long, we’re only waiting for Westminster to Bugger things up even more and the swing will happen
    at least I think that’s the plan

  338. Schrodingers cat says:

    Waves of human misery washing up on the shores of the med , a flight of people in proportions not seen since WWII

    The no city of Aberdeen is about to come crashing down, you can see the fear in people’s eyes,

    10000 walruses stranded in the artic because of the lack of ice

    Worried looking economists dreading the opening of the stock market tomorrow, just when they thought it couldn’t get any worse, they now know it can. And will

    Not a lot of good news about today

  339. Robert Peffers says:

    @Papadox says: 29 August, 2015 at 11:58 pm:

    ” … Or perchance are you just a shit stirrer”

    Here’s a thing, Papadox. Aged 15 I began an apprenticeship at HM Dockyard, Rosyth. It was soon after WWII. The entire management, and the bulk of the workforce, were Englanders imported from the most southern naval bases in the UK’s deep south.

    We native Scots were under a constant barrage of what the Englanders, even today, call, “Good Natured Banter”, but what was/is in reality no more than racist taunting.

    Now I’ve always been observant and pick-up on things that most people just do not notice and I rapidly arrived at a conclusion as to what motivated this not so, “Good Natured Banter”.

    I arrived at this conclusion as it soon became apparent that the most objectionable, (not to put too fine a point to it), arseholes were the most likely to be the poorest quality management, tradespersons or less skilled other workers.

    In short these persons, most likely to be putting down all things Scottish, were in fact those most likely to feel insecure within themselves. In other words they felt themselves to be inferior and were attempting to put down the Scots in order to make themselves feel superior. The classic signs of, “Inferiority Complex”, and the mere fact they continued their objectionable, “Good Natured Banter”, over such a long period points to the simple fact that their, “Good Natured Banter”, most certainly doesn’t work in boosting their, Inferiority Complex.

  340. X_Sticks says:

    @Schrodingers cat

    Cheers Schrodi! needed that bit of cheering up 🙂

    But you’re right. There’s not a lot of good news around. It seems our political and military classes have pretty much completely fucked up the whole world. The neo-liberal shite only works for the 1% at the expense of the 99%. No wonder they don’t want change.

    On the up side there does seem to be a backlash starting with Syreza, Podemos & Corbynitis. I suspect political wings will come out of the Black Lives Matter in the US and there is increasing international pressure coming on Israel over the Gaza blockade. Hope over Fear is all we have got.

  341. Robert Peffers says:

    @HandandShrimp says: 30 August, 2015 at 12:30 am:

    “Kezia intends to stop control freakery at Labour conferences with the BBC managing to find a picture of Kezia looking…well a wee bit manic.”

    The BBC, “managing”, to find a picture of Kezia looking, “well manic” is the easy part – finding one where Kezia is NOT looking, “Well Manic”, is the harder thing to achieve.

  342. gordoz says:

    This has appeared in the Sunday Mail;

    This absolute guff today from nowhere, pinpoints whats wrong with MSM Scotland cheerleading for a Labour recovery.

    “Scottish Labour unveiled it had attracted more than 3,400 new members since the general election.

    The party now has more than 28,000 people in Scotland signed up to help its campaign, made up of more than 17,000 members – almost 3,300 registered supporters and almost 8,000 affiliated supporters”

    Clear as mud … this is being released as Labours recovery. Now I know MSM have a real problem with maths & figures.

    So again what is a supporter / member / affiliate ????

    Despite the impressive numbers and vague statements

    Here is the real news for you Mirror Group

    SNP 110,000 members
    Labour 17,000 members.

    Now thats impressive after all your hard work to get the figures closer.

  343. Onwards says:

    @Dr Jim says:

    30 August, 2015 at 12:08 pm

    55% seems to be the consensus of opinion within the party that a Referendum can be won from there..

    It probably would be won from there, but there is no point making a rod for our backs.
    We might never see 55% outside an independence campaign, with all the opposition against us.

    Significant BBC reform will never happen, because we all know it was the main weapon used against us.

    I would rather take a chance at 51% than never again.

    If there is no momentum for independence, then people just settle in and get used to the current set-up.

    Making fixed targets just means not having the ability to act when there is an snap opportunity.
    eg if Labour lose again under a Corbyn leadership.

    I think there is an good chance around 2020,
    but if we leave it too long we could end up like Wales.

  344. galamcennalath says:

    @Dr Jim

    Yes. We need to win next time!

    We’ve just had two plebiscites where opinion on a lot more powers for Holyrood was tested. In both cases Scots agreed. We want a Hel of a lot more powers. However WM won’t engage. Once the current legislation is delivered, it won’t even achieve Smith. We rejected the Tories massively. We don’t want austerity. We overwhelming wanted the SNP.

    I think there could/should be a post 2016 GE referendum on just how well the Better Together vision is delivering. Perhaps a different question. Maybe “do you agree the people of Scotland should make the decisions on how it is governed”. Or, some other ‘where do we stand’ question. Get our sovereignty clarified.

  345. ronnie anderson says:

    @ Ian Brotherhood 12.27am. jist goes tae shows ye, there,s no honest broker’s. But Mamma,s N Pappa,s proud of Geraint.

  346. Robert Peffers says:

    @Democracy Reborn says: 30 August, 2015 at 1:51 am:

    “Kevin McKenna having a real rant in the Observer with another SNP-bashing piece. Police Scotland get it in the neck too. The theme is the usual ‘crisis’.”

    Och! What the likes of McKenna rant about becomes less relevantby the day as their readership declines and their publications are almost all now in terminal decline.

    “The police are a “necessary evil”. Stephen House going early doesn’t solve anything.”

    For the very good reason that there really is no actual crisis. This is all a politically co-ordinated attack by the usual suspects. There are actually fewer mess-ups now than when there were 8 disparate police areas. The death of the two young persons was called into the police on the non-urgent phone line and the call centre treated it as a non-urgent matter.

    I do not blame those who phoned to report the matter. Obviously, as they didn’t stop to investigate, they thought there was no urgency, and any lengthy drive in any area will probably show abandoned crashed cars by roadsides.

    “Reduction in crime figures bear no relationship to reality.”

    Cobbler’s awls. Of course they do.

    There has always been cases of inappropriate behaviour by individual police officers. They are, after all human beings and we humans do make mistakes. In any case while the force is now under one management the same area headquarters are still there and just answer to the central authority rather than the former local council police boards.

    This is the same form of, “Crisis”, claimed to be affecting the Health Boards under SNP government as was claimed, by Jackie Baillie in the debating chamber when she said, “The SNP are presiding over the Hospital Acquired Infections Capital of Europe”, and cited figures to prove it. Trouble was that those figures were from when her own party were in office and the figures had actually improved, (if memory serves), by around 70%, under the SNP.

    The new hospital is really a great success and any fool could figure out that to criticise it while it was still in shake-down mode is a trumped up exercise in, “SNP BAD”.

    The point is that, no matter what these numpties claim, the public are deserting them and flocking to the SNP, YES and the independence movement in droves.

    This indicates that their efforts to give this particular dog a bad name are not only failing but are actually giving the perpetrators, the MSM, Broadcasters, Unionist Parties and the Establishment the very worst of bad names. The expression, “Hoist by their own petards”, springs to mind. Except their little petards have become massive calibre cannons.

  347. heedtracker says:

    Cabinet Secretary and civil service head Sir Jeremy Heywood (centre) presented the award to team members (from right to left) Paul Doyle, Will MacFarlane, Shannon Cochrane, and Mario Pisani.

    Pisani said: “In the Treasury, everyone hates you. We don’t get thanks for anything. This is one occasion where we’ve worked with the rest of Whitehall.

    “We all had something in common, we’re trying to save the Union here, and it came so close. We just kept it by the skin of our teeth. I actually cried when the result came in. After 10 years in the civil service, my proudest moment is tonight and receiving this award.”

    Only in teamGB.

    I wish constitutional lawyers like Prof T up there, would explain the legality of these awards really is. Actually do what he gets well paid for at Glasgow and his regular slots in Pacific Quay.

    Flipper Darling gets his slot at the Lords trough for life, Danny Alexander gets a knighthood, a ferocious English nat and huckster like Prof Tomkins gets a free ride into Holyrood, these cons arteests at the Treasury give themselves awards and all of it for destroying Scottish democracy and saving England’s control over their Scotland region.

    And the award for the most corrupt bunch of liars, all paid for by vile separatists goes to-

    He added: “As civil servants you don’t get involved in politics. For the first time in my life, suddenly we’re part of a political campaign. We were doing everything from the analysis, to the advertising, to the communications. I just felt a massive sense of being part of the operation. This being recognised [at the Civil Service Awards], makes me feel just incredibly proud.

  348. ronnie anderson says:

    @ Robert Peffers. (answer to the central authority rather than the former local council police boards.)

    And thats what is getting up their Noses. Their Authority Diminishing.No more Expence claims for attending Board meetings.

  349. Effijy says:

    Scots Blue Tories have no ideas on what would make people vote for them.

    They have no hatched a plan to attract young voters who enjoyed the Back to the Future Movie Franchise.

    The Nutty Prof found a way to make the Delorian Car move through time, so they have gone with their own Nutty Prof Trolkins in hope he can attract these young movie mad voters and take Tory voting levels in Scotland back to 1865.

    Wee Ruth Krankie rides into Edinburgh on a Hover-Skate Board!
    How McFly are these guys?

  350. Jack Murphy says:

    gordoz says at 12:48 pm:-“This has appeared in the Sunday Mail”.
    To those unfamiliar with the Trinity Mirror Group,it’s National Titles include the Daily Record,Sunday Mail,Daily Mirror and the Sunday Mirror.

    It has an extensive list of locals south of the border.

    In Scotland,the Trinity Mirror Group’s local titles are:
    Airdrie and Coatbridge Advertiser,Ayrshire Post,Blairgowrie Advertiser,Business 7,Dumfries and Galloway Standard,East Kilbride News,Galloway News,Hamilton Advertiser,Irvine Herald,
    Kilmarnock Standard,Metro Scotland, PaisleyDailyExpress,Perthshire Advertiser,Scottish Business Insider,Stirling Observer,Strathearn Herald,The Glaswegian,The Lennox Herald,West Lothian Courier and the Wishaw Press.
    Sorry Rev about the long list—-if you don’t clear it for publishing, I understand.

  351. X_Sticks says:


    ON NOW

    Independence Live livestreaming afternoon session from “Gaza Building Bridges”

    Please support their fundraiser

  352. HandandShrimp says:

    Here is the real news for you Mirror Group

    SNP 110,000 members
    Labour 17,000 members.


    I may be wrong but I think the SNP membership was approaching 116,000 the last time I saw something. I know our branch has had a slow trickle upwards since the big surge.

  353. orri says:

    Unless the person who called in that crash can be traced there’s no way to tell if they can be blamed or not. Looking at the video of the car being recovered the one thing that seems clear is that unless you saw the car going off the road there’s little to no chance that you’d have seen it at all. With that in mind the nasty suspicious bit in the back of my mind wondered if the calling to the non-urgent line was a deliberate attempt to avoid being identified.

  354. ahundredthidiot says:

    Thanks to Jack Murphy

    Perhaps new SNP MPs should take note, if just to keep their wits about them when dealing with local press.

    Editors will do as their masters tell them

  355. heedtracker says:

    Rancid Graun says Aberdeen’s a shit hole, Sunday Times has whatisface Harris explaining that Scottish devo has doomed Scottish NHS. Harris says the fact that Scots cant pick the GP they like means we’re doomed

    Is it this Tom Harris

    “Here’s the bottom line: the vast majority of people who stand for election, from every mainstream party, are good people. They have far more to agree about than to disagree about. Yes, we’re let down by the fringes, by the abusive who use Twitter to make up for their own lack of friends. But they can be so easily ignored. Instead we raise them up to the full glare of publicity and invite the world to regard them as typical of whichever party they represent.

    They’re not. They’re dicks. Now move on.”

    Je suis a dick then. I think my ex SLab MP Anne Begg marching for UKOK last Sept with

    made as much sense as oor Tom.

  356. gordoz says:


    Even better at 116,000 🙂

    GIRUY Sunday Mail !

  357. CameronB Brodie says:

    Re. Professor Adam Tomkins and his ‘scholarly’ support for British and Israeli nationalism. As he is a Tory hailing from England, I wouldn’t be surprised if the Prof. imagines that Scotland only benefits from the ‘civilizing’ influence of being part of UKOK plc., much in the same way as Winston Churchill felt about the civilising influence that would result from encouraging white, predominantly non-Semitic European Jews to settle in the Palestine.

    Zionism and Fascism share the same Tory roots in the British Establishment. So does One Nation UKOKery.

  358. Jim McIntosh says:


    “For the first time in my life, suddenly we’re part of a political campaign. We were doing everything from the analysis, to the advertising, to the communications. I just felt a massive sense of being part of the operation. “

    I wonder what effect on the voting would have been if Scotland had been explicitly told that the civil service were being used as an integral part of the NO campaign.

    The NO campaign regularly used economic figures being pumped out by the Treasury, and if I’d dispute them when talking in the pub etc. I’d be loudly told I was wrong because the civil service is neutral.

    Absolute disgrace, and if the official YES campaign knew about this we should have been told.

  359. Dr Jim says:

    There’s more to come on the Crash thing for sure

    Why, if anybody “SAW” a “Crash” would they phone 101 doesn’t make sense, you’d call 999 and be horrified at what you’d seen, then you’d stop your car and go and look to see if you could help

    In France failing to assist is an offence

    Why would you say you feel guilty the next day or two if you thought you had done all you could

    We, unfortunately can only speculate, but it still doesn’t make sense

  360. Thepnr says:

    Heedtracker your a nutter, but I love your posts.

    Carry on|

  361. yesindyref2 says:

    55% sounds good to me, I was saying 60% before, but that might take too long and lose the momentum.

    This poll at 52%, a poll the weekend before the Ref showed about the same. My view is that the undecideds were grossly underestimated, and that the real figure even on Ref Day was more like 20%. In the event, with the Vow as an “excuse” or as a reason for being cautious, 15% went NO, 5% YES.

    A poll showing 52% could just be that 12% are now YES and 8% NO, but this could reverse just as easily. Even 55% is a bit chancy, 10% could reverse with some doom and gloom such as the BBC will be putting out like there’s no tomorrow.

    I met this year a good few NO voters who decided on the day, are currenly undecided, and don’t know which way they will vote in Indy Ref 2 which I think they all accept (and perhaps welcome) will happen.

    What they say is that the case needs to be made, currency needs to be decided – I don;t think they’re too fussed what currency as long as there IS one with a plan – and the economy needs to be addressed better.

    Yes, I think Westminster and the anti-SNP mob are doing a good job at the moment, long may it continue. They just can’t help themselves, blinded by their own self-justification.

  362. CameronB Brodie says:

    P.S. The Tories are sleekit though, as they got British Labour to carry the historical can for the Balfour Declaration. Drafted, btw, by prominent Fabian Socialist, as well as protagonist and organiser of civilian concentration camps during the second Boer War, Viscount Milner.

    Now Mr. Corbyn is accused by the Establishment, of being anti-Semitic because he does not support Israeli human rights abuse in the Palestine. Even his own ‘colleagues’ are at it. THE PALESTINIANS ARE PREDOMINANTLY OF SEMITIC DECENT YOU FUCKWITS.

    There will never be peace in the middle east, until those who support a ‘Greater Israel’ are recognised for what they are. Dangerous.

  363. galamcennalath says:

    CameronB Brodie says:

    ” encouraging white, predominantly non-Semitic European Jews to settle in the Palestine”

    Yes. Zionism was in fact anti-Semitic in the sense that the plan was to plant Europeans into the midst of the Semitic peoples of the Middle East. The Ottoman Empire was disintegrating and the area ripe for European expansionism.

    Fashionable eugenics and ideas on racial superiority meant they believed the colonisation of that part of the world by suitable Europeans would have a civilising influence. UKOK was of course up to its neck in it all, 100 years ago.

  364. heedtracker says:

    @ Jim McIntosh, they’re really only flattering themselves with silly awards, which might get them civll service career points. They don’t compare to BBC’ s Project Fear level that’s reached UKOK hysteria by last 2 weeks of their vote No campaign and it’s that level of terrorising Scotland that we’ll have to endure all over again. Fear is UKOK key. That dude nearly wept because England will lose a lot of rule Britannia stuff that they take for granted.

    Rancid The Graun’s daily Scotland’s a shithole so vote anyone but SNP, only goes to show our imperial masters are fully aware they only really won a battle 18 Sept 2014. Which is why a fruity olde rule Britannia English nationalist like Prof T running for non election to Holyrood, is a lot more important that it looks now.

  365. Thepnr says:

    Alistair Darling marching under a Socialist banner in his youth and Professor Tompkins making a speech on Carlton Hill in support of a Socialist Republic is just so funny.

    What can we do? Not much other than laugh.

    I’m not laughing though, what we must do is expose this arsehole for that is what he undoubtedly is.

    He has put his neck on the chopping block by declaring his wish to stand for parliament at Holyrood.

    Let’s chop it off. Deride him as much as we did to Murphy.

  366. Joemcg says:

    Anyone remember a telly phone vote a few years ago about ditching the Royals? Arch unionist Nicky Campbell hosted on ITV. The only part of the UK that wanted it scrapped was us and thousands upon thousands took part. I’m certain it was 90% against. Tin foil hat time but I still do not believe we lost that September vote fairly.

  367. woosie says:

    And another thing…..

    If this is North Britain, howcome the much-touted “Northern Powerhouse” will probably be built in Leeds or Newcastle?

    Surely that’ll be a Midlands Powerhouse?

  368. Hoss Mackintosh says:

    Picked this up on twitter –

    “@cllrdmeikle: I’ve been asked if I’m standing for Conservatives in Glasgow at #SP16. I withdrew from selection over serious concerns with the process.”

    He declined to state what his concerns were.

    Related To Prof Tomkins in any way I wonder?

  369. Dr Jim says:

    I hope Idiot Tomkins does stand it’ll increase SNP vote even more Mbwahahahah

  370. X_Sticks says:

    O/T (at risk of becoming a nuisance, sorry)

    Live Independence livestreaming the third session in the Gaza Building Bridges debate.

  371. Onwards says:

    yesindyref2 says:

    30 August, 2015 at 3:20 pm

    55% sounds good to me, I was saying 60% before, but that might take too long and lose the momentum.

    We would ALL love to see 55%+ in the polls.
    The point is that we might never see that, especially outwith a referendum campaign.

    If we gain independence the figures would be very different. No-one wants to go backwards. Scots would see ourselves on the international stage.. in Europe, at the UN, in the Olympics etc. We would look back and wonder why it took so long to upgrade to a normal country.

    But why make it harder for ourselves to get there in the first place ?
    If Scotland wins independence, chances are it will be a very close run thing.

    We have a hostile media against us, an unbalanced BBC, every second show is the Great British whatever, we have union jacks plastered over everything.
    Now we have hobbled devolution with the Scottish government set-up to take the blame for funding cuts, especially if it alters income tax.
    Chances of future majorities become harder.

    If we have a chance at 51% in a few years, I would jump at it, especially if the Tories win again at Westminster.

    Quebec waited 15 years and still never won.

  372. yesindyref2 says:

    The thinking is that two or three consecutive polls at 55% would make it very likely a YES would result. I personally think that would inevitably get a lot of publicity, would make the media think again about its future in Scotland, and could create a “bandwagon” effect, where people turn to YES to be part of the winning side, hence perhaps getting the vote over 60%.

    The thinking also is that another NO vote wouldn’t just kill it for another generation, it could kill it forever.

  373. yesindyref2 says:

    Trusting the SNP to be working on Indy, and that’s a hard thing to do, I would see it going like this.

    A week or so before the 18th September, an SNP poll i=on Indy, hopefully showing that 52% YES. Various events and publicity around the 18th, media doing “one year on” programs and articles, and at least one paper getting its nose in front of the rest with a “year on poll – what does Scotland think now?”. Curtice of course doing his stuff, and SGP doing his.

    That could set the stage for whatever comes next.

  374. heedtracker says:

    Is the a bad, good, evil, stupid, vile, Putin’s Russia Salmond, so vote UKOK story?

    “I have the honour to be, Sir, Your Royal Highness’s most humble and obedient servant,” Salmond signed off.

    What a bastard.

  375. Robert Louis says:

    This 55% in the polls for YES, will only happen if independence is being discussed daily, but it isn’t. The support rose during the referendum campaign. It will not rise magically by itself. To suggest otherwise is quite delusional.

    I think for going for a referendum, with 50/50 (the approximate current state of play)in the polls is an excellent starting point.

    As others have pointed out, the people who previously dedicated their lives to the campaign will eventually move on, and it is not guaranteed (it is extremely unlikely) the SNP will have a majority forever. The ‘choice’ to call a referendum may not exist in the future – as was the case for over 300 years.

    Final point, Like others I have met many people whom I tried to persuade, who voted NO, but now bitterly regret it, and wish they could reverse their vote to YES. Most say, they feel betrayed that the promised new powers (which they genuinely believed) have just become a joke, and London/Westminster have just gone back as they were prior to the referendum campaign to rubbishing Scotland and the Scottish Government at every turn.

    We should not do as they did in Quebec, and wait 15 years. The momentum will have been lost.

  376. galamcennalath says:

    Robert Louis says:
    “This 55% in the polls for YES, will only happen if independence is being discussed daily, but it isn’t.”

    I sort of agree. I would say it won’t move very quickly, while there isn’t wide discussion.

    And, of course we are in a media regime which is trying to avoid sensible discussion.

    Truth is, a lot of people aren’t into politics the way most people on here are. Most people beyond these pages believe they have higher priorities in their daily lives – that is the hard reality.

    Having said that, I don’t think everything has stalled at 45:55. It may already be close to 50:50 and of course there’s gossip about positive private polling putting Yes just of 50.

    Creeping to 55:45 is possible, help by WM’s behaviour.

    It certainly needs to be talked about more. It will be in the next referendum campaign!

    I am also hopeful that the SNP will has the option of a referendum in their manifesto, subject to demand and conditions. When contrasted with DevoFA and austerity during the election next year, I am sure independence will be discussed again.

  377. Gary45% says:

    Going by the vision Tomkins paints, it is easy to see why the Tories appointed Ms Moan.

    A TIT in a butchers apron.

  378. Anagach says:

    The idea that

    “I have the honour to be, Sir, Your Royal Highness’s most humble and obedient servant,”

    is supposed to be the way you sign off a letter to Head of State in waiting, or any other ‘royal’ is really quite sickening in the day and age.

  379. yesindyref2 says:

    @Robert Louis
    I disagree. It was 45% in the Ref and about 48% shortly after. If Dr Jim is right, it’s now 52%. A slow trickle to YES, but it seems, a steady one.

    That’ll do for me. 55% by mid-October seems about right, well, quite possible. Westminster have yet to finish murdering the Smith Report into something resembling a mess of stale mouldy unappetising pottage.

  380. Jim McIntosh says:


    “The thinking also is that another NO vote wouldn’t just kill it for another generation, it could kill it forever.”

    Forever is probably right, so when we do call it, maybe that should be part of the deal – “It’s Now or Never”. Plus,if we vote NO, the Scottish Parliament is to be shut down and we will be ruled directly from London, that’s basically what a NO means anyway.

    I met many people during the referendum who agreed that “Scotland should be an independent country – but not yet”. This for a variety of reasons, mostly in my opinion, selfish in one way or another. Perhaps knowing this is a single opportunity might persuade them to look at the bigger picture.

    Additionally, anyone from Hollyrood campaigning for a NO will be akin to turkeys voting for Christmas. 🙂

  381. Robert Peffers says:

    @orri says: 30 August, 2015 at 2:23 pm:

    “Unless the person who called in that crash can be traced there’s no way to tell if they can be blamed or not.”

    At least one guy who called in the accident has publicly said he feels guilty. I cannot blame him for calling the non-urgent number as I live near a bad bend where we get a regular number of vehicles lying in the field. Often the vehicles lie for days before they are removed. To the best of my knowledge no one has yet been killed and having called in a couple in the past just after the accident I can understand someone calling it in feeling it isn’t urgent.

    “Looking at the video of the car being recovered the one thing that seems clear is that unless you saw the car going off the road there’s little to no chance that you’d have seen it at all. With that in mind the nasty suspicious bit in the back of my mind wondered if the calling to the non-urgent line was a deliberate attempt to avoid being identified”

    As I said at lest one person who called in is known. I used to tour with my wee motorhome and it was not uncommon to see crashed vehicles. If I called them in, (this was before the non urgent line was started), I was usually told the emergency services knew about it.

    Last time it happened I was coming over the Lecht, (Cockbridge to Tomantoul), and came across a motor cycle lying on the verge with a man, with an obvious broken ankle alongside it. We stopped and called 999. Covered the guy with a blanket and, (my late wife was a nurse), administered first aid.

    Then we stayed with the group of bikers, making them coffee, while they waited for the ambulance. Anyway the emergency service already knew about the incident. Most often, in these days of mobile phones, someone calls it in within minutes.

    As I already pointed out the caller had no way of knowing there was anyone still in the crashed vehicle or when the incident had happened. So they were not to blame. The police got a call on the non-emergency line and treated it as a non-emergency – so the desk staff cannot be blamed and if the message was passed to the local patrols as non-emergency then they too are not to blame.

    It is just one of those things that should not happen but which often do. If anything it should be put down to a failure of the system of inexperienced, and untrained, members of the public not being qualified to judge when incidents are, or are not, emergencies.

  382. Lollysmum says:

    Independence Live-streaming Gaza Building Bridges event

  383. Schrodingers cat says:

    I think we are sitting currently at 50/50 support for Indy

    What is more encouraging is the support for the snp, I’ve seen 55% and 62% in polls for holyrood

    While this doesn’t represent support for Indy, they can’t be classed as hard nos if they are willing to support the snp

    It shows that there is another 5-10% of the population who can be converted to yes! this is a promising indication

    Holyrood in May, eu ref in June and indyref2 in sept is a real possibility

    Corbyn winning and then being ejected by the labour mp’s in Westminster, could deal a final blow to the Labour Party support in Scotland and it is the 25% who voted for labour in Scotland in May who will decide our future

  384. Valkyrie says:

    Just so you know, folks, we have an SNP professorial candidate in Professor Donna Heddle of the University of the Highlands and Islands who has just been selected for the Orkney Islands constituency. A founder member of Academics for Yes, she took the Lib Dem Holyrood majority down to just under 900 last time so all to play for!

  385. yesindyref2 says:


    Andy Burnham did the same (most humble and obedient servant) as health secretary according to the New Statesman which had a photocopy. It’s standard but old-fashioned protocol, though I daresay I wouldn’t use it.

  386. Alan Mackintosh says:

    Heed, Anagach, re the signature to the letters. That phrasing is a common sign off in official letters. That was the form we used if writing to the CO in the battalion. Nothing special about it, thats just the style of service writing. Eck said to the Herald that he had changed it after that in any case.

  387. heedtracker says:

    Independence will come either by referendum or increments.

    SNP get my vote but I want to see them do much more on currency and a central bank. What “do much more” means, I don’t know but they have got to start working on these issues. Otherwise people that do not want to be Scottish and do want to be British are always going Project Fear like they do at the BBC or the Hootsman and so on.

    As long as we have far right twerps like Prof T and his merry club of BBC toryboys like Cammers, Osborne or Bojo strutting their “no sterling for you Scots” stuff, we’re all fcuked.

    Come on SNP, how hard can this really be?!

    SNP Holyrood, SNP Westminster No.3, Scotland expects.

  388. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    RE: “I have the honour to be, Sir, Your Royal Highness’s most humble and obedient servant,” Salmond continued.

    The story continues…
    “The former First Minister told the Sunday Herald that that was the last time he used this traditional form of words because he thought it was “inappropriate to a democratic age”.”

  389. Schrodingers cat says:

    The Orkneys will be the hardest seat in Scotland for the snp to win
    Good luck to the prof

    I heard somewhere that Carmichael was saved by the Orkney vote, the Shetland vote was for the snp

    Get her to start a crowd fund and post a link here,
    The lib dems will swamp Orkney islands with hundreds of posted leaflets
    The snp needs to do the same, canvassing by foot on the islands can be difficult

  390. Alan Mackintosh says:

    Cat, yes I heard the same. Shetland was snp, Orkney saved it for him. Apparently theres a lot of ex navy and others in Ork which swung it back for him which doesnt figure in Shetland.

  391. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Apologies for posting this if you’ve previously read it. I’ve had it in a Firefox tab for the past few weeks and finally got round to reading it tonight. Can’t remember where I picked it up from.

    Its content kinda goes with all the typing about the next referendum in this thread and was published on 7th August.

  392. Lollysmum says:

    I agree. It is the protocol for any royal communication. One of my Trustees wrote to Princess Anne about an event we were holding. He was inviting her to attend as she’d opened our centre 11 years before. He didn’t use the correct terms for sign off so it was returned for amendment

    I’d refused to write it in the first place.

  393. HandandShrimp says:

    Orkney has a fair proportion of English people these days, 18% I think. A lot are part of the large arts community that has grown up in Orkney over the last couple of decades (way more than when I was a lad growing up there). I would guess a lot of these people, many of whom are older rather than younger, are old style real ale and sandals Liberals. They aren’t voting to keep out the SNP as such…it is just the Liberals are who they naturally lean to. It will take a fair push to oust the Liberals…but not impossible.

  394. yesindyref2 says:

    @Brian Doonthetoon
    Yes, that article sums it up nicely, inluding the issues that YES has to tackle.

    By the way I think there’s an advantage this time that wasn’t there before. For Indy Ref 1 it was important to emphaise that it wasn’t about the SNP, it was across politics, there for all. It was also about tackling the entrenched Labour vote in Scotland.

    Indy Ref 2 can include wealthy nation, appeal to the right wing as well as the left, and it doesn’t matter I think, if the SNP are seen to lead it.

  395. Fireproofjim says:

    Regardless of the date of the next referendum, I hope the SNP are already setting up a policy on our new currency, bank, and pensions, which will be better than the last time.
    Similarly they need to approach the EU commission to get firm confirmation that Scotland will be welcomed into Europe.
    Finally they must appoint a Yes spokesman with the fire and articulation of Tommy Shepherd. Why not the man himself?

  396. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Valkyrie & Schrodingers cat –

    Hear hear to good wishes for Donna Heddle. I was one of her students in 2013/14, and she introduced us to the bawdy joys of William Dunbar, for which I was always be grateful.

    If she’s half as good a politician as she is a teacher then Orcadians would be daft not to elect her.

  397. Schrodingers cat says:

    The ongoing Carmichael fiasco is not going to help them, Carmichael cannot speak in public without being questioned about it
    Travis’s scot and the other one are very quiet at the moment, if interviewed they will not be able to avoid the same questions

    It will be difficult for the lib dems to fight a coherent campaign against this back drop

    Shetland and Orkney are ripe for the taking, the lib dems have never been so weak
    As I said, good luck to the prof , I hope the snp divert resources to the northern isles, it could pay dividens

  398. Dorothy Devine says:

    Bullshitter alert – Torrance in the Herald , followed by the usual suspects below the line.

    It is time to wave it farewell on its final journey into ignominious oblivion.

    Quite frankly ,I no longer care what happens to any of the papers of Scotland – not even the much lauded National ,which I still consider is a cynical rescuer of the dire Herald and no amount of protesting ” that’s not the way papers work ” will convince me.

    And I get my beloved WGD in my inbox anyway!

  399. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @meself (8.53) –

    ‘…for which I was always be grateful.’

    Yes, I’m doing Eng Lit…. 🙁

  400. yesindyref2 says:

    @Ian Brotherhood
    Don’t see anything wrong with it to be honest, it communicated both past preesnt and future very succinctly, Language should be about communication not grammar like wot I speak, and blah blah blah 🙂

    [“both” for three things, mmm]

  401. Lollysmum says:

    Leeds & Newcastle aren’t in the Midlands they are classed as Northern England.

    The Midlands are Birmingham, Nottingham (the Queen of the midlands & my home city), Leicester, Derby & their respective counties

  402. Schrodingers cat says:

    On cue, brown has piped up, the next 12 months will decide the union…

    We managed to pull victory out of the jaws of defeat

    The next election cycle will consign the unionist politicians to the dustbin, even Tompkins recognizes this fact
    If we are sitting at 50/50, then if you are following this thread, it appears that Indy is now down to a swing of single figures. It seems we are all agreed on this.

    I personally think that the massive gains we have made on this journey will not be repeated here, every % point will need to be fought for and I would urge all to do what you can to make this happen

    However, we had our future in our hands, but I think external events will ditate this swing and we need to capitalize on these
    Is Aberdeen thanking the stars they voted no or are they feeling better together yet?
    Also, we have an eu ref on the horizon, which is likely to divide us as much as the unionists.
    Just remember folks, Indy is now only single figures away. We are on a knife edge but the fact that we find ourselves in a position where we are no longer lost, is a source of hope.
    Keep the faith folks

  403. Schrodingers cat says:

    A majority SNP Government must be able to call a referendum at the point of its choosing, as and when circumstances demand. In other words, the SNP need the ability to call another referendum if they think they can win and not if they don’t.

    Which is what I have been saying on here for weeks

  404. Schrödinger's cat says:

    Don’t worry Ian
    Before I joined the oil industry , I couldn’t even say ingineer
    Now I is one 🙂

  405. scottieDog says:

    Totally agree.
    We need to be formulating a plan for a scottish currency.

  406. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Plentyfool thankarbs for commiserable noters on the gharstlie grammirballs.

    Marcho approbliatings! 🙂 X

  407. ronnie anderson says:


    Why do you,s think those ( Alex Salmond) letters were published ever heard of the PROPOGANDA WAR.


  408. Dr Jim says:

    @ Fireproofjim

    Maybe wee Mhairi Black I dare the journo’s to bully her

    Central Bank? What about China they’ve got a bob or two

    EU We’ll just tell Mrs Merkle we’ll take some Refugees, job done

    Too silly ? Hmm Maybe

  409. ronnie anderson says:

    heedtracker says:
    30 August, 2015 at 5:51 pm

    Is the a bad, good, evil, stupid, vile, Putin’s Russia Salmond, so vote UKOK story?

    “I have the honour to be, Sir, Your Royal Highness’s most humble and obedient servant,” Salmond signed off.

    What a bastard.

    Would you be clearer as to who,s the Bastard.

  410. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Schrodinger’s cat –

    So, Gordzilla’s been at it again?

    Can’t wait for footage to emerge – it’s never going to beat his last effort, but let’s face it, the guy is good value, always produces something jaw-dropping (if that isn’t an unfortunate choice of phrase)…

    He seems to be issuing warnings about the future in measured chunks – 24 hours here, a fortnight there, a year there…his subconscious must be trawling through the permutations to figure out in which ‘window’ he’s likely to be getting his collar felt.

  411. Onwards says:

    Dorothy Devine says:

    .. not even the much lauded National ,which I still consider is a cynical rescuer of the dire Herald and no amount of protesting ” that’s not the way papers work ” will convince me.

    It’s ultimately owned by Gannett, a huge US publishing company that owns thousands of newspapers including USA Today.
    The sales of the Herald or the National are a drop in the ocean to them. It’s a numbers game. If a paper becomes unprofitable it will be dropped.

    The way I see it, it’s the ONLY daily newspaper supporting independence and deserves our support.
    I wish it had existed before the referendum, not after.
    But it’s up to pro-indy supporters to keep it alive now.

  412. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Whatever Broon came out with today, it should be compared/contrasted with what he was saying the week before the referendum.

    Here’s a (surprisingly seldom-viewed – 6702) CH4 interview with Kathy Newman, from Sep 8th 2014, where he pretty-much rattles through all the BTUKOK/Project Fear propaganda Big Red Buttons, and sketches out the ‘promises’ which appeared in the infamous DR ‘Vow’ just a few days later:

  413. Gary45% says:

    As mentioned earlier Scottish currency.
    We also have wind, hydro and yes solar energy, we are the world leaders in some of these generators.
    The UK are shutting down Longannet power station.
    Is it not possible to produce our own energy through renewables, keep longannet open and stick two fingers up to Westminster with their 40+ million surcharge for grid connection.
    So long as we produce enough energy to meet OUR demands.

    Just think of a future where the Clyde is back to producing the best maritime vessels in the world and Scotland is self sufficient.

    Or are we too wee and too stupid?
    I don’t think so.
    Its time to look to the future, we can do it.
    And Danny Alexander will always be a ginger ars*hole

  414. Robert Peffers says:

    @Dr Jim says: 30 August, 2015 at 3:16 pm:

    “Why, if anybody “SAW” a “Crash” would they phone 101 doesn’t make sense, you’d call 999 and be horrified at what you’d seen, then you’d stop your car and go and look to see if you could help”

    The very good reason is that they did NOT see the crash. They saw a crashed car in the woods. They had no idea when or how it got there.

    Secondly it was not a good idea to stop your car at that particular point. The crashed car was off the road by a slip road and thus there was no hard shoulder to pull off to. By the time it registered what they has seen they would be well past the scene of the crash.

    They may have had a better chance if they had been pulling off the road up the slip road as you could then have stopped on the road you were pulling off onto.

    Looking at the photo of the crash scene I most certainly would not have stopped there either.

    “In France failing to assist is an offence”

    You cannot just stop on a motorway or dualled road unless there is a hard shoulder and the crash was at a slip road.

    “Why would you say you feel guilty the next day or two if you thought you had done all you could”

    As explained they had no idea if it was a old incident or had just happened. They had no idea if anyone was still in the car. It was a wonder they saw it in the first place there must hundreds ad not seen it. They felt guilty after with the benefit of hind sight and more information. Like finding out there were people still in the vehicle.

    They were reporting there was on the face of it a car lying off the road and nothing more and they felt guilty that they had not used 999 instead on the non-urgent call number.

    “We, unfortunately can only speculate, but it still doesn’t make sense”

    Fatal accidents seldom do make sense. If they did there would be no accidents.

  415. heedtracker says:

    What a bastard.

    Would you be clearer as to who,s the Bastard.

    Sarcasm Ronnie. I was being sarcastic about the relentless anti SNP propaganda pouring out of the UK media creep show. Why look who it is, one the biggest liars ever farted into the UKOK universe

    But it’s ok to lie to people children, if you’re doing for your country and your SLabour right to reign over the vile separatists of Scotland. I cant even be arsed reading whatever project fear stuff this goon is raging about anymore.

  416. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    What stood out for me, in that video, was the repetition of the lie – “no UK pensions with separation”.

    And it wasn’t challenged…

  417. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    And then, if you watch the follow-on video, he repeats the same lie of “no UK pension” on the 17th September.

  418. ronnie anderson says:

    @ Heedtracker Thanks you had me worried there lol.

  419. NN says:

    The massive economic crisis coming around the corner is going to be the real moment where the future is decided. Small fry politics in the news now will be rendered utterly meaningless by it. Very interesting times ahead.

  420. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @BDTT –


    No-one in MSM has yet bothered to nail the lie that BTUKOK was flogging pensioners with in the final month, and which Brown helped them with…

    Telling old folk that they wouldn’t get ‘a UK pension’ was the same as telling someone who’s just about to buy a new telly that they won’t be able to operate it with the remote control that they currently own. It was barefaced shysterism. In any sane society, Brown – and everyone else who terrorised our elders with that blatant lie – would be dismissed from their jobs on ‘Ethics Violations’ charges.

  421. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @BDTT (10.59) –

    Aw man, that clip’s another new one for me, and I was in tears by the end of it.

    The likelihood is that so many of us were out and about, doing last-minute leaflet drops etc, we’ve never seen this stuff, and never (wanted to!) look back on it after the event.

    We were so close.

    And the bewildered old-dear pouring her heart out to Gary Gibbon could’ve been my own Mum.

    Will enough of these people ever have a chance to see sense when they’re being so blatantly targeted and exploited by the jaded Gordzillas of this world?

    Sometimes, ye just want to fucking greet…


  422. call me dave says:

    Here Take it!
    But…but we don’t want it!

    Your getting it anyway! I’m announcing it today your in the union so suck it up Scotland.

  423. Dr Jim says:

    @ Robert Peffers

    So, to be a little clearer going on what you’ve said Robert

    A man saw a car in a field, the end

    In journalistic speech “A gross dereliction of responsibility and procedural neglect by the badly designed single Police Authority” (picture of Willie Rennie) My inbox is full of dreadful police stories every day, it’s terrible, it really really is, I feel so sorry for the entire world in this matter

    Sturgeon must act and act now

    Got it,

    I have no heart, maybe I could get a job as a journalist

  424. yesindyref2 says:

    Don’t start Ian (Brotherhood), I’m feeling kind of blue myself. I think it’s looking back at last year, all the joy and enthusiasm, the YES badges and T-shirts, rallies, the momentum building towards the last 2 weeks before the Ref. I was in YES city on the day – Dundee. Glasgow? Phhhhtt 🙂

    They say that another 2 weeks would have done it and I think that’s right. Pity some unforseen event didn’t happen to postpone it for 2 weeks, because I think it was only the last fortnight most people really thought about it all.

    But this to me feels like the centre of the storm, the lull before it starts again. It just has the feeling somehow that it’s all about to get going again. I could be wrong, but if I’m right I’m looking forward to the sunshine at the other side.

    Meanwhile drip, drip, drip, YES = YES + 1. Repeat 500,000 times.

  425. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @yesindyref2 –

    The next ‘George Square’ rally will give us a clearer picture of how things stand.

    It would be nice if Wingers could meet before and/or after.

    We must ensure that we’re there. There’s no other single event on the horizon which has such MSM appeal.

  426. Grouse Beater says:

    “The next ‘George Square’ rally will give us a clearer picture of how things stand.”

  427. scottieDog says:

    Nows the time to get our ducks in a row regarding currency. We were told (correctly) last year that keeping the pound would incur fiscal constraints. The concluding part they don’t mention is that a country having its own currency simply can’t default.

    This throws the balancing books argument out the window.

  428. ronnie anderson says:

    @ call me dave. Osbourne,s having a laugh £500mil over Ten Yrs,& where are all they Scottish Submariners,its Monday Holyrood starts on Thurs, Bbc/Kezia/Rennies/Ruthie need something to get their gums mumping.

  429. It will take someone better with words than me to express my disgust with the news that £500m is to be “invested” in the Faslane base.
    Even before Westminster have agreed to go ahead with a replacement for Trident, this is just one more example of the establishment rubbing our noses in the dirt. You voted
    No, and now we can do what we like to you”.

  430. ronnie anderson says:

    Bbc now inflating the workforce at Faslane will be 7000.

    Stick to the stability of the Ice Cream story Bbc cause the rest of the news is unstable Diarrhea.

  431. call me dave says:

    Getting ready to zoom off to Oban. Taking my partners parents back home again from Fife :-).

    Caught the early editions of GMS and the Osborne gloat re:Trident as well as his glee about the go ahead for the biggest oil and gas field in the last 10 years in the …North Sea.

    George taking a gamble, playing poker with Scotland.

    Now we have Kezia on saying not a lot including, Iraq? “Don’t blame me I was at uni and it was a long time ago” and I don’t think I should comment on the ‘real’ leadership race for the labour party nothing to do with me! “I’m in charge of the ‘Scottish’ labour party”.

    Oh! Your call with Kaye later …Trident and all these 590 or is it …6000 … 8600 …er 16000 jobs that depend on it.

    I’ll be on the road with my CD player on humming along to

    I’ve been cheated, been mistreated
    When will I be loved 🙁

  432. Nana Smith says:

    Trident renewal was agreed last year

    As George is visiting his toy this morning lets look at the UK arms trade

    and if that is not obscene enough here’s Gordie…

    apologises if I have put anyone off their breakfast.

  433. Breeks says:

    Perfectly understandable, but a bleak outlook when people are still dwelling on matters of currency and pensions. Bleak, because it is tacit recognition the Unionist media will be dictating the agenda in the next referendum, just as they did the first.
    Sovereignty is principle that most nations are ready to die to protect. That’s the natural way people regard their freedom. In Scotland, more than half of us would sell our sovereignty for the false promises of known liars. I don’t give a damn about a pension, the pound, the price of oil, or any other diversionary agenda. My country is habitually abused, my people are downtrodden and our natural resources are squandered by government which treats us a second rate citizens in our own country.
    They won’t stop by themselves. If we want our country back, we need to mature in our thinking, and wise the fk up that sovereignty IS a principle that is worth dying for. It isn’t just the head on your coins or how much pension you get. Scotland exists, or it doesn’t. Once we get our heads around that, then the BBC and all the Unionist media will cease to matter. We will lead. They will follow or get left behind.

  434. ronnie anderson says:

    @ Ian Brotherhood 12.53 George Square 19th Sept.

    I will be there about 9.30, to book our spot (Walter Scott statue), therafter the Wings team have retired to the Vale Bar Dundas St ( much cheapness)& its far enough for PeteTC to walk & Me lol.

  435. Nana Smith says:

    Thought you may like to see this. The Catalan people are getting their very own project fear.

    An old article about Tony the Tory.

  436. scotspine says:

    Hey Alex,

    Don’t sweat it. It’s £500 million spent on infrastructure for our Independent Scottish Navy and military HQ when the time comes.

  437. Fiona says:

    Absolutely scottieDog

    Sovereign currency essential, not an option among many.

  438. heedtracker says:

    By Glenn Campbell, BBC Scotland political correspondent
    This investment was unlocked by the “no” vote in the independence referendum

    So there.

    Usual daily front page BBC black out of anything Holyrood, SNP,

  439. heedtracker says:

    The chancellor said the move would create thousands of jobs, and claimed that a Labour party led by Jeremy Corbyn would pose a threat to national security by undermining the future of Trident.

    Rancid Graun. What’s the Graun’s UKOK propaganda difference between “create thousands of jobs” and BBC vote NO Scotland “secure thousands of jobs” anyway?

    Must be an imperial masters make your mark felt start of new Scottish parliament thingee.

  440. Phronesis says:

    The UKOK establishment works together to promote a sad malaise and anti- utopian post modernism to split the social – they don’t have any positive vision for society therefore it’s a real anxiety for them when the masses start to question the status quo.

    Speaking about independence on a daily basis and addressing all the outstanding questions about the economy,currency,state services the balance of wealth creation and supporting the state all need to be answered. Some of that is the job of government much is the collective job of the YES movement.

    Independence is coming and we will be very ready for it.

  441. Brian Powell says:

    So those who voted No were voting for 20 more nuclear submarines to be dumped on Scotland.

    I didn’t realise.

  442. Brian Powell says:

    I’m looking foreword to Jackie Baillie applauding George Osborne for bringing more nuclear submarines to Scotland.

  443. Robert Peffers says:

    @Dr Jim says: 31 August, 2015 at 12:28 am:

    “A man saw a car in a field, the end”

    Well no, Dr Jim. More a case of, ‘Man sees a car among trees and does what he thinks is the right thing to do’- but it isn’t.

    There was indeed a tragic failure that resulted in deaths but because of the likes of Wee Willie Rennie, who saw it as an opportunity to make political capital, the real failure and its elimination has been side-tracked and the chance to sort the real problem has been lost.

    The real problem being the wrong use of the non-urgent phone in line. This is basically a good idea but, this present case, highlights that there is a weakness that needs attended too.

    Instead of Police Scotland’s leader being employed to sort out the real problem, he has now decided to resign after fighting a totally un-necessary rear-guard action.

    The non-urgent incident phone-in has a glaring big hole in it that places members of the public in a position they are not trained to fill. It forces everyone who wants to report anything to the police to decide if what they want to report is, or is not, of an urgent nature.

    It also takes away from the trained staff on police phone switchboards the decision upon what action is most appropriate.

    It is a very natural reaction to treat a non-urgent call as a non-urgent matter – and that is exactly what has happened here.

    You have no doubt seen the TV clip where the numptie sees a drowning man and tells his better half the man in the sea is waving to them and having great fun in the water. The classic untrained man making the wrong decision.

    Yet Wee Rennie see this incident only as a chance to gain publicity to yell, “SNP BAD”. Same goes for the campaign to belittle the wonderful new Glasgow Hospital. The Unionists were putting this down almost before it opened its doors to the public. They began even as the hospital was named and then renamed.

    These people think more of their own political careers, their party and the Union and never give a thought to what is best for Scotland and her peoples, or if they do give them a thought it is to view them as their enemy.

    As to the call-inn system – the least that needs done is a public interest video to make them more aware of the system and thus better able to judge if a matter is, or is not, of any urgent matter. Not only that, but if they have the most tiny doubt, they should use the 999 urgent line.

  444. louis.b.argyll says:

    Might have to change my name to..


  445. Onwards says:

    @call me dave

    Chances are the Faslane investment was timed to be on the same day as the gas field go-ahead, to get the headlines instead.

    Of course the Faslane investment of £500m over 10 years, gets priority over the £3 billion Culzean field investment by Maersk Oil.

  446. heedtracker says:

    So those who voted No were voting for 20 more nuclear submarines to be dumped on Scotland.

    I didn’t realise.

    Scotland’s not a nuke missile dump at all. Glenn Campbell says voting no in the referendum “unlocked” stuff, wonderful UKOK stuff what will set you free, like finding a locked treasure chest painted Union Jack colour, full of teamGB treasures and the BBC held the key all along, and are not just another bunch of crooks.

  447. The Man in the Jar says:

    scotspine said “Don’t sweat it. It’s £500 million spent on infrastructure for our Independent Scottish Navy and military HQ when the time comes.”

    I would agree with that but the way things are going I would prefer that the new Scottish Air Force use Faslane as a firing range and bombed it to a pile of rubble. Now that would send a message!

    Seriously though how much of that money will actually end up in the pockets of Scottish residents. Next to he-haw I suspect.

  448. The Man in the Jar says:


  449. Macart says:

    56 out of 59 seats.

    56 representatives of a party whose stance on WMDs is well known. The UK government simply rode roughshod over the entire democratic process.

    Who knew?

  450. t42 says:

    Problem: some 999 calls are non-urgent, trouble is you don’t know which these are, until you investigate.

    Political Fudge solution: create a non-urgent phone line and let the public decide therefore we can blame the person calling when the inevitable tragedy occurs.

    Politician: “THAT’S GENIUS!”

  451. Jack Murphy says:

    Onwards says at 10:20am 31st August:-
    “Of course the Faslane investment of £500m over 10 years, gets priority over the £3 billion Culzean field investment by Maersk Oil.”
    The Culzean field is expected to produce enough gas to meet 5% of the UK needs when it reaches peak production.
    It holds RESERVES equivelant to about a quarter of a billion barrels of oil. 🙂
    Map of Culzean Gas Field ,North Sea.
    Block 22/25a.
    Hope this link works:-

  452. cirsium says:

    agreed scottieDog(6.39am) and Fiona (9.21am)

    Scotland needs to have a sovereign currency.

  453. Michael McCabe says:

    @ Jack Murphy 11:23am Your link works fine.

  454. manandboy says:

    Kezia commissions an investigation into the Scottish police. As if . Nil points for Kathleen Nutt – and The National.

  455. @ Robert Peffers 10:07 am

    I can concur with your post. As an ex-Coastguard the amount of emergency calls that were called in on the non-urgent phones was far too many. These were from people who saw something or from the actually casualty who was in grave and imminent danger and certainly required immediate assistance. A good few (too many) died as a result of the inappropriate method of contact used.

    Now instead of saying to the press or the families of those who died that the wrong method of contact was used or that they weren’t wearing lifejackets or they should not have been out there in this weather etc etc. Saying that wouldn’t help those who died but it may have made others think.

    What the managers did was they looked for a failure from within the service investigating the Coastguards who were on duty and dealing with the incident.

    I can tell you stories of how truly stupid people are.

    But I will tell you one to give you all an indication.

    We received a ” Mayday call” from a gent who had a £2 million toy beneath him (a massive yacht) he had his family with him. He called MAYDAY for a rope around his prop. Remember he was on a yacht. Anyway the most important thing a Coastguard wants to know is where you are and if you get another question it is how many people on board. So if we lose contact we can still get rescue units out there because we know where you are and how many people we are looking for.

    This particular conversation was this.

    Casualty : Mayday mayday mayday, my yacht has stopped Coastguard are you there.

    Coastguard : Whats your position?

    Casualty : I am the managing director (of a famous bank)

  456. gus1940 says:

    I see that Dugdale is going to open up the lists for next May to ‘get rid of The Deadwood’.

    FMQs will be interesting with’The Deadwood’ applauding her every crazed utterance – she will have to be constantly looking over her shoulder.

    Incidentally is this thursday’s FMQs with Dugdale making her maiden humilation as Manager of The Labour North British Accounting Unit being broadcast? According to The Daily Heil TV Guide it isn’t.

  457. gus1940 says:

    Excellent article by George Kerevan in today’s National.

  458. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “And somebody has to stand on the lists.”

    If you’re standing for the Tories and you’re not contesting a constituency (through your choice rather than through not being selected), then you ARE a coward. But it seems he’ll be standing for Glasgow Anniesland.

  459. orri says:

    tried to archive it but the video wouldn’t work,

    From the video you’re left wondering how anyone saw the car in the first place.

    As to the non-urgent line. I thought the idea was that it was a way of contacting the local police on matters that weren’t quite urgent. In this case without it there may not have been any call about that car never mind the two they got.

    The mistake in the first instance might simply be that the person taking the call dismissed it as a hoax and didn’t enter it anyway. If/when there’s an inquest I’m sure that will be one of the points highlighted.

    My original point was that I really couldn’t see how the car could be spotted in the first place.

  460. liz g says:

    James Caithness @ 12.07
    Totally agree with you and Robert.
    I have been THAT stupid.
    Called the 101 no to report a dog running loose at the side of the motorway.
    Only to be informed that I should have phoned 999 given the danger involved.
    Don’t know how I would have felt had anything happened,and with the benift of hindsight it was obviously an emergency.
    All I can say about the people who phoned in is at least they did something and didn’t see anymore of an emergency than I did

  461. Grouse Beater says:

    Wings: “he’ll be standing for Glasgow Anniesland

    My essay online less than an hour and I removed a comment on that issue told he was contesting a constituency. But surely Anniesland is more Left than Right as far as voter loyalty is concerned?

  462. Fred says:

    @ Ronnie Anderson, anent the Vale Bar, best Guinness, much cheapness but nae singin! 🙂

  463. starlaw says:

    Orri .. the person who phoned saw the car from another road running parallel to the motorway, and had no idea how or when it got there and phoned emergency services ‘Just in case’

  464. scottieDog says:

    Im Not pandering to media. Sovereignty and freedom is about having your own sovereign currency. Just look at the euro zone. .

  465. orri says:

    @starlaw, Thanks that clears that one up. Realistically if there was going to be a response to that it’d probably have been a helicopter.

  466. Effijy says:

    Strange how the new North Sea Field will be able to support 5%
    of the UK requirements. I would have expected a Scottish news station to say that the field would support 50% of Scotland’s needs.

    They then go on to say it was good old Gideon’s £3 Billion
    tax break that made the whole thing possible, but they forgot to mention it was his greed on increasing North Sea Revenues that helped to stop investment there, but anyway why don’t you just take the money out of the £3 Trillion that they have stolen so far from North Sea revenue.

    These fields are generally discovered years in advance of any
    announcements like today’s. Wasn’t it fortunate that no one in
    Government nor UK Media, nor Oil Corporations knew about this field, and its revenue, just 11 months ago as we approached the referendum?

  467. bill.fraser says:

    It would appear that the Goons are ready to make a mockery of the Scottish Elections.It is up to the electorate to ignore these people when the time comes.

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