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The Streets Of Dan Francisco

Posted on January 16, 2018 by

The past week saw the return to the public eye of the former Independent columnist Johann Hari, who vanished in disgrace a few years ago in a plagiarism scandal over claiming to have done things that he hadn’t.

It also saw the return of ubiquitous Scottish politics scribe David Torrance from a trip to San Francisco, the details of which he shared at stultifying length with the unfortunate readers of The Scottish Review.

Or at least, what he SAID were the details of where he SAID he’d been.

Because that wasn’t Torrance’s favourite part of the book at all. And the reason we know that is that it isn’t in the book, and never was. It was a complete hoax.

Something Scotsman reporter Ross McCafferty couldn’t help pointing out to Torrance:

So we’re just going to enjoy this for a bit.

Meanwhile, if we were The Scottish Review we might think about double-checking Torrance’s expenses claims. And everyone else may want to apply a healthy measure of salt to anything he tells them from now on.

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  1. 16 01 18 19:56

    The Streets Of Dan Francisco | speymouth

  2. 22 01 18 23:28

    Does humour belong in politics? – Rock and Rhetoric

153 to “The Streets Of Dan Francisco”

  1. jimnarlene says:

    Torrance pumped by mythical gorilla…?

  2. Macart says:

    Oh jings! 😀 GIGALOLZ

  3. Chris Kilby says:

    By a curious coincidence, Dan Francisco was a gullible, easily manipulated dupe and the idiot frontman for sinister-if-mundane, self-serving non-entities who were secretly brainwashing him. Just a PR mouthpiece. A stuffed shirt.


  4. Andy-B says:

    I think we all knew that Torrance is a boastful charlatan, this just confirms it.

    This is the man who made a living off the back of Alex Salmond, he’s a unionist Remora fish, only less interesting.

  5. Robert Graham says:

    Is the facial hair still in place ?

    Or is that made up as well ?

    A liar has to have a very good memory otherwise they get rumbled , oops a wee slip David .

  6. Donald anderson says:

    He left his brain in San Francisco.

  7. handclapping says:

    When even the Scottish Review has to print pish, it proves that its not the MSM that is the problem its a crap bunch of Scottish “journalists”.

    I doubt any of them would be good enough to get a job on the Daily Mail.

  8. Joe Riley says:

    Would be more worried about flying into JKF airport. That could be anywhere…

  9. Highland Wifie says:

    That’s what journalists do – check sources.
    Well done Rev.

  10. galamcennalath says:

    We all know by now how they operate … either make it all up themselves, or plagiarise without having the common sense to check someone else hasn’t just made it all up.

  11. Ken500 says:

    Not more nonsense. Have these people no shame. They are a laughing stock. Regurgitated lies. Constantly.

  12. velofello says:

    But he has witnesses – ‘We were all reading Michael Wolff’s new book regarding ….we agreed that it’s subject’s petulant response…”

    A man who would steal an egg would steal a kingdom.

  13. Helpmaboab says:

    I keenly await David’s next column in The Herald.

    In which he recounts hearing about the three-legged Martians with deadly heat rays who recently invaded New Jersey.

    And then explains why this is disastrous news for the SNP…

  14. bookie from hell says:

    gorrilla- brilliant hoax

    CNN were talking about it

  15. Smallaxe says:

    The Francisco Kid?

  16. Robert Graham says:

    While the subject is fiction, is if my imagination or are the BBC in Scotland attempting to use the only contract they seem to be able to pinpoint in their report of Carillion and the effects of its collapse to businesses in Scotland,

    I get the impression a ‘ look they are all at it ‘ in an attempt to involve the Scottish government and deflect some flack from obvious Tory failure to oversee large contracts in England,

    The reason I question the BBC story was because apart from the Aberdeen bypass every part of their story involves contracts in England , even the Aberdeen contact they admit is part of a consortium involving two other contractors ,

    So in conclusion is Carillion a major supplier to the Scottish government ? . Or are the BBC at it again ? .

  17. Dr Jim says:

    Billy Liar comes instantly to mind, isn’t that what he is, saying he makes stuff up is being far too lenient

    David Torrance is a liar

    And now everybody knows that “journalists” who he claims to be one of, are liars

    Still want an exposed liar on your programs BBC and STV?

  18. brewsed says:

    Half man, half Weetabix caught with its pants on fire. LOL. The cereal liar has form, quite willing to believe Eck of Strichen hadn’t read any books prior to 2015. Nine hundred and sixty-two words, many superfluously padding out the word count, e.g. two ‘and also’ and ‘actually necessary’ along with the un-hyphenated ‘public address’. Does it get paid for cranking out the verbiage?

  19. Tinto Chiel says:

    Oh, Tank Top Boy! What a falling off was there!

    Not really, you were always a Grade A dorkspangler.

    What is this journalism thing again? A seeking after truth or summink?


  20. Bob Mack says:

    No, Alex Salmond learned language by a complex methodology of hand signals passed down through the ages. He had very understanding teachers at school who never issued him with a book of any description, not even an ABC.
    Even sitting his exams was achieved through enormously complex feats of memory, involving remembering everything told to him verbally.

    Never had to revise or check the truth in anything from any source.

    Mr Trump and gorilla channel ?

    You know, I’m becoming a little suspicious that this Mr Torrance could be an idiot. It is amazing what people can make you believe— if you really want to believe it, and it fits in nicely with your own prejudice.

    In Glasgow the term would be “Whit a riddy ya diddy”

    Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho.

  21. Robert Graham says:

    I know , I know I am pushing it a bit ,

    I can see our media stretching this to the absurd stages with this Carillion collapse and the involvement of this company with the Scottish government is probably about to grow legs and arms ,
    They are straining every sinew and muscle to avoid being critical of the Tory government. And involve the Scottish government . Look they are all at it . Says a labour spokesman

    Someone at the national needs to get off their arse and start moderating their letter section, some clown , has just described the forth crossing as being Gerry built and will require years of snagging, a comment more fitting in the Scotsman or the hootsman . Is 99.99 % of the media not enough for these loons .

  22. Croompenstein says:

    I bet he fell for the old sky hook and left handed screwdriver errands. Numpty

  23. Ken500 says:

    The bastards Tories at it again. Voted down Devolution. Everyone in Scotland who voted for them should hang their heads in shame. Disgusting. Beyond belief. The Tories at it again. They will never ever change. Evil beyond belief.

  24. Jules says:

    How that guy is able to make a living as a ‘political commentator’, I just don’t get…

  25. mogabee says:

    See, the gorillaz always get you in the end!

    That’s a keeper and no mistake…

  26. Steve says:

    Can anyone confirm if Dave know’s that the Gorillaz are also a virtual band by any chance?

  27. dakk says:

    Cutting edge journalism from our bon viveur reporter Dave in Frisco.Not.

    Maybe he was just caught up in the afterglow of a stroll down Castro Street.

  28. Marie Clark says:

    Jeez oh, that’s embarrassing. Still, brought a smile to my face.

  29. Effijy says:

    He left the Truth in some Dank Disco.

    That son of Uncle Tom wouldn’t know facts from a field of Cotton.

    The Cotton wool is useful when he pushed on to our TV screens

  30. mark says:

    oh dear. caught red handed sir. I didn’t think he could have *less* credibility but there you go.

  31. K1 says:

    Just so the fucking Tory bastards who voted for those 13 fucking wankers who just voted against Scotland know…if the SNP had retained their WM seats, we would have defeated the bastards today. And our parliaments and devolved powers would not be under now serious threat from the power grabbing grubby little shits in Westminster.

    111 powers are now under immediate threat because of these bastards:

    Just for the complete avoidance of doubt:

    ‘This amendment was defeated 321 to 297. All 13 Scottish Tory MP’s voted against it. If they had voted for, the amendment would have passed by 310 to 308. Cowards one and all.’

  32. HandandShrimp says:

    Evidence, if any were required, that reading the newspapers is bad for one’s understanding of the world.

    David is a scamp and no mistake.

  33. G H Graham says:

    Torrance survives (barely) by writing drivel because his copy fits inside the extremist Unionist media bubble that is determined to maintain the status quo; no matter how corrupt, inept, or inequitable.

    Torrance would otherwise struggle to make ends meet in a normal functioning print media because while he might be able to fool some of the readers, some of the time, any half decent, balanced editor would simply pass on his 3rd rate musings.

    I will wager with confidence however that he will be trawling these very pages, such is his petulant ego.

  34. Sinky says:

    House of Saud on BBC2 at 9 pm to-night reminds us of UK’s blind eye to Saudi corruption over arms deals…. including BAE and Tony Blair.

    Well worth watching on Iplayer

  35. One_Scot says:

    K1, I really hope that the people of Scotland understand and can see that we are about to be systematically destroyed as a country unless we stand up and vote Yes in the next Scottish Independence referendum.

    The consequences of a No vote does not bear thinking about.

  36. Tinto Chiel says:

    K1: very well said, lest we forget. It really is as simple as that: vote Tory, vote Plank.

    GHG: please don’t bother yourself about such a desperate nonentity. Hope you are better now. I remember you were unwell a while back.

  37. Graeme says:

    K1 says:
    16 January, 2018 at 9:42 pm

    “Just so the fucking Tory bastards who voted for those 13 fucking wankers who just voted against Scotland know…if the SNP had retained their WM seats, we would have defeated the bastards today. And our parliaments and devolved powers would not be under now serious threat from the power grabbing grubby little shits in Westminster.

    111 powers are now under immediate threat because of these bastards:

    Just for the complete avoidance of doubt:

    ‘This amendment was defeated 321 to 297. All 13 Scottish Tory MP’s voted against it. If they had voted for, the amendment would have passed by 310 to 308. Cowards one and all.’”

    It’s maybe not such a bad thing because it shows up those 13 anti Scottish tory wankers for what they are and could bring more folk over to YES and make Indyref2 more compelling.

    Whatever way you look at it Independence is now imperative and if we don’t win our independence before Brexit is complete we’re fucked anyway and they might as well have the powers.

    It’s all or nothing now

  38. Sinky says:

    No mention of “Scottish” Tory MPs Vote on BBC National or Scottish news headlines.

    You can be sure that the right wing press, Unionist journalists and British Establishment will bury this story.

  39. Street Andrew says:

    No Gorilla Channel?

    I’m disappointed beyond measure. I was hoping to see it stealing the ratings from BBC Scotland and STV.

    Another dream destroyed. Torrance has raised my hopes only to dash them. He shall not be soon forgiven.

    Pants on fire, Mr Torrance.

  40. Thepnr says:

    David Torrance was Parliamentary Aide to the then Shadow Secretary of State for Scotland, David Mundell for around 18 months between 2005 and 2007.

    That should tell you all you need to know about what side of the fence this particular “political commentator” sits.

    He is no more than a mouthpiece for Tory propaganda in Scotland.

  41. Clootie says:

    …he (Torrance) is kept in place BECAUSE of his skill in lying!

  42. jfngw says:

    Maybe not having a BBC Scottish Six is a plus point, going by the current headlines it would amount to no more than snow reports from around the world. So low is their ambition. If you were expecting a headline regarding the EU vote, forget it, they obviously haven’t had the spin to be used from HQ yet.

  43. winifred mccartney says:

    At this rate the yoons will only have proven liars on their side along with the establishment lackies and the house scots.

  44. ronnie anderson says:

    Torrance is back cause he’s hear about the the Bbcs free cash for journalists scheme .

  45. Iain says:

    Torrance, like most journalists, has a good conceit of himself, works hard, but is not all that bright.

  46. A2 says:

    Well at least it really IS non existent.

  47. heedtracker says:

    Now come on! even the great professional liars of the Scottish meeja make complete and utter fools of themselves, sometimes, and without realising it.

    He’s such a dick though:D

  48. Robert Peffers says:

    @Clootie says: 16 January, 2018 at 10:14 pm:

    “…he (Torrance) is kept in place BECAUSE of his skill in lying!”>/i>

    Skill at lying, Clootie?

    What skill might that be?

    Torrance hasn’t got any such skill, propensity – Yes, Skill – No. Cut-The Bag was even better at it.

    So, go on Edinburgers – which of you can tell us who was this, “cut-the-bag”, that the old Edinburgh saying refers to?

  49. heedtracker says:

    To be fair though, its still future Lady Sarah Smith at No.1, in the tory mega whopper teller top 100 UKOK bullshittter charts. She’ll probably stay at No.1 for a good few days too, as the next hard core tory shyster swipes on tomorrow.

  50. Fred says:

    Strange, strange guy! Who bank-rolls the Frisco Fanny?

  51. galamcennalath says:

    jfngw says:

    Maybe not having a BBC Scottish Six is a plus point

    Indeed. If the BBC never reported news from Scotland again it would be an improvement on the current situation.

    Negative, bad, negative, failure … if they are going to continue, they should just rename the organisation BBC Scotland-is-shite and be honest.

    I believe in a few years from now we will be able to sit down in front of TVs again and not fear bursting a blood vessel. We will be able to tune into a news report and hear facts. We will have a broadcasting service which holds a mirror up to our nation and reports a reality we know to be the truth – good news when it happens, and criticism where merited. But not just yet, we have a few hurdles to jump over.

  52. Sandy says:

    Am I being cynical re Carillon? Have brown envelopes changed hands, from government ministers & employees down to the most minor contractor.

  53. Who the f#ck teaches these journalists,

    does the subject of `morals and ethics` ever get discussed in journo school,

    and if it does is it seen as a bad thing,

    people like Smith and Torrance must bring great shame on their teachers at journo school.

  54. heedtracker says:

    Who the f#ck teaches these journalists,

    Your journey starts here

    The National Council for the Training of Journalists is the industry’s charity that delivers the premier training scheme for journalists in the UK. We provide a world-class education and training system that develops current and future journalists for the demands of a fast-changing multimedia industry. Find out more about our qualifications.”

    And one day, you too could grow up to be a complete and utter toryboy hack, spending your professional life hairing about teamGB, stamping out democracy.


    Also, only the best of best of the best make it to the greatest tory lie machine of any western democracy,

    Do I need specialist knowledge?
    A good knowledge, understanding and interest in news and current affairs are essential for all of our traineeships.

    There is a World Service placement based in the newsroom in London plus a Gareth Butler politics placement where you will be based at our Westminster offices near the Houses of Parliament. There will also be a sports placement based in Salford.”

    Only The best of the best of the best make it to THE biggest tory liar factory on the planet.

  55. Still Positive says:

    When I used to buy the Herald, I could barely get to Torrance’s second column on a Monday – it just didn’t make any sense as an essay. And I was an English teacher. Says it all about Torrance really. Failed at everything.

  56. @Sandy

    Keith “I`M VOTING NO” Cochrane CBE is head of Carillion he is also employed by the UK Government as a Lead Non-Executive Director at the Scotland Office,

    a Lead non executive director is a non elected businessman/woman that is attached to a Government Department,

    there are now over 80 non-executive board members across 20 central government departments,

    these capitalists are the real power behind Government policy,


    is good for `Big Business` who they really serve.

  57. Ghillie says:

    Why didn’t David just read the book?

    It’s his job. How dificult is it just to read a book?!

    You know what. That boy is quite remarkable.

    He makes journalists look bad. Some achievement lad.

  58. Cactus says:

    Dedication to desperate Dan, the monkey man:

    This part of the post is about the 2018 Wings Fundraiser.

    Here’s a few random thoughts for the new sexy perks:
    (dunno if any of these have already been suggested)

    – Engraved quaich
    – Dartboard, case and darts
    – Football
    – Kite
    – Briefcase
    – Lunch box
    – Playing cards
    – Belt / sporran
    – Beach towels
    – Transferable tattoos / sleeve
    – Wind chime

  59. cearc says:

    KITE!, that would be a brilliant perk!

    (Cannae be arsed to comment on the DT prat.)

    KITES, real wings over Scotland!

    Yeah, KITES, KITES! think, sky full o’ KITES.

    Yeah, go for it Stu. (smart guy oor Cactus).

  60. Loved it, Stu.
    He’ll be on the Janice Forsyth Show BBC Radio Jordanhill with Margaret Curran and Tom Harris reviewing Gorilla TV’s Historical series, ‘Planet Of The Apes’.
    Proof, if proof were needed that this chancer is part of a dying breed; the Yoon illiterate hack.
    Yet they wonder why their readership is in free fall.

  61. CameronB Brodie says:

    @David Torrance
    You’re a Tory so it’s understandable you have a problem with honesty and lack ethics. I’ve been working hard to show folk that you’re a fraud and not to be trusted, so thanks for the help. I honestly didn’t think you had it in you to be a good guy. 😉

    Gorillaz – Busted and Blue (Yotto Remix)

  62. Cactus says:

    – Balaclava
    – Drone
    – Hi visibility vest


  63. Col says:

    Doing some research for a burns night meeting. A wee Google search brings me Balmoral Chicken. A classic British dish ffs. Just f'”+ off will you Scotland deniers. I’m f+*-=;’ sick of this anglicised Scottish culture nonsense. It’s gone too far. We’ve put up with enough damage surely over the past 300 or so years to our ways of life just to appease you. Thanks to unionist sell outs, the worst kind of people any country could ever wish to hold sway we are down trodden. Most without even realising it. The colonisation of MY country must cease, I say MY country because you don’t even recognise it as such. Piss off or grow a pair! I don’t want to be England’s bitch. This is how we are treated. So long as unionism exists maybe anyway. Beat it!

  64. yesindyref2 says:

    There’s something radically wrong with me, because I feel sorry for him. Desperate perhaps to meet a deadline for an article to make his living and pay for his American Pie, he scrabbles around frantically, finds a juicy bit of misinformation and gets fooled by it – just as many readers or viewers of unionist media also get fooled by the misinformation and disinformation they are fed with their cornflakes. Now I guess he knows how those readers feel when they wake up and smell the coffee [1].

    He’s broken two cardinal rules. First check the source, and second – don’t get caught. In today’s low low appallingly low standards of journalism, it’s probably the second that will lead to his undoing. And yet it wouldn’t surprise me, since this is Wings, if Jordan Daly will spring to his defence and cast Wings as the villain, after all, it’s not “regulated” (or regurgitated) by IPSO. But it’s one step ahead of the shoeshine, two steps away from the city line.

    [1] I hate that expression and anyway, I drink tea.

  65. CameronB Brodie says:

    @Scottish Welfare Blog
    Are you actually David Torrance?

    I see you like graphs and consider GERS a reflection of Scotland’s worth and potential.

    Fairclough Critical Discourse Analysis

  66. CameronB Brodie says:

    P.S. Introduction to Discourse Analysis

  67. Breeks says:

    It isn’t training these so called journalists lack, it is courage and integrity.

    It’s the kind of courage you find in a real journalist who will put his life and liberty on the line, risking a bullet in the back or false imprisonment just to expose the truth to the wider world. That’s the kind of journalism that is precious and needs its freedom protected as something sacred.

    Don’t feel sorry for the likes of Torrance. Torrance is the reason the value of real blood and guts courageous journalism is increasingly met with cynicism and indifference because it has been tarred with the same brush as the propagandised garbage trumpeted by these “faux journalists” who are little more than cry-wolf parasites and shit-stirrers given a high profile platform by a corrupt and rotten media establishment.

    Here in Scotland, we tolerate some mighty bizarre paradoxes. We like to call ourselves Sovereign, we all know the “truth”, but in the same breath respect and tolerate the fact we live under Westminster’s dominion. We choose to ignore the paradox.

    So too with our media. We all know the BBC and our Newspapers are tools used to suppress our aspirations and subjugate our Nation through interminable smears, creeping Anglicisation, and BritNat Propaganda, and yet here in Scotland, we still call this diarrhoea “journalism”. Once again, we choose to ignore the paradox.

  68. yesindyref2 says:

    @Breeks “Don’t feel sorry for the likes of Torrance.

    For some odd reason it didn’t stop me making a casual reference to “gorilla channel” on a Herald thread about the Tories …

  69. Dek says:

    Torrance has nothing to say . He makes the legendary Phil Space of Private Eye fame look like a sage.

  70. Dorothy Devine says:

    Mr Torrance should have ‘mist’ the gorillas!

    I stopped reading/listening to anything the man wrote/said in 2013 and I haven’t ‘mist’ him!

    As for those 13 unthinking tractors of Scots conservative MPs – Burns had the right descriptor for them .However , in kindness , perhaps they were jist daen fit they were telt and maybe somebody had already a firm hold on their Achilles heels

  71. Macart says:

    RE: Last night’s vote

    Posted this elsewhere:

    Wasn’t shocked. Wasn’t surprised either. Disgusted though? Yes, that’s a good word. Disgusted. Pretty much full of contempt for all things Tory about now. I don’t think there’s any doubt that they were always going to vote in the interests of Conservative government. It’s what they are. It’s who they are. Party ideology before the needs of the people. Party ideology before the rights of the people. Party ideology before the institutions of the people.

    And what an ideology it is.

    Those thirteen Tories just sold out the rights and protections of Scotland’s electorate at the drop of a hat. Think about that. Your parliament, your rights and your needs.

    I’d say you’ll have a choice to make soon. You can let those Tories know what you think about their attempt to remove your rights and depower your institutions.

    The bill in question and what it means:

  72. Liz Rannoch says:

    Torrance schmorrance I’d rather not bother about him.

    So angry about the vote in that place, bloody tories. Were they not just last week saying that they were ‘concerned’ about the amendments and Scotland? Lying again. How many times in how many ways have they lied and cheated us?!

    (Gies masel a shake) Anyhooo from Rev’s twitter – VOTE FOR KEVIN

    Simple, easy, anyone can vote. Let’s pile in there!

    ALSO “Can I ask one big favour from all viewers ? Can you please share our channel site as widely as possible, we really need to get our viewing figures-up so that we can progress.”

    We need to pile in there too.

    If you do one thing today…

  73. Mary miles says:

    Hello from Tassie:

    Sad and angry regarding turncoat Scottish Tories betraying Scotland in devolution vote.

    Perhaps Alex Salmond could give his opinion on these westminster Brexit occurrences on his weekly RT program emphasising the uk’s betrayal and arrogance towards Scotland. He seems to be reaching a wide audience? Even having a discussion group which would be more balanaced than anything put out by BBC. (Sorry if this sounds a little naive – hard to judge what is really going on over here. It is certainly very frustrating though. The fight for Scotland is certainly worth a great effort from all who want independence.


    Regards to all wingers who genuinely fight for Scottish Independence1

  74. Cactus says:

    Morning Smallaxe, thanks for links, kettle’s on furra cuppa…

    Howsabout a…

    – Wings tea cosy 🙂

  75. Smallaxe says:

    Mary Miles,

    Welcome, Mary,

    Thank you, for your contribution. Hope you have a great day.

  76. Ken500 says:

    Some posters go on the Herald for the unionists. Then come on this site for Independence. Bit weird or trolling.

    The Tories – unionists are now trolling Scotland. People must stand up to stop them. People must now stand up for Scotland. Westminster unionists are a danger. The complicit Press/MSM are a disgrace. Lies all over the place. Everyone must support Nicola/SNP standing up for Scotland. Or the people’s rights are going to be denied. Even more money will be taken from Scotland. Even more people will die, worldwide. The Tory – unionist corruption. Now is the time to stand up for Scotland. Another IndyRef coming soon.

  77. Smallaxe says:

    Good morning, Cactus.

    Enjoy your cosy tea, my friend. I’ll see if D.Mundell will knit you a new tea cosy.

  78. Macart says:


    Just in time for brekkie cuppa. 🙂 Many thanks.

    Also this:

    Guess what happens next?

  79. Robert Louis says:


    Some on here may find it truly laughable the debate this morning on the ITV programme ‘good morning britain’ at 0810 this morning. Apparently, a Tory MP wants singing the English national anthem to be made compulsory.

    Staggering nonsense about ‘british values’. And they wonder why Scots want out of this god forsaken and undemocratic union with little England.

    They really have lost the plot in England.

    It can be seen again on ITV+1 in an hour or so.

  80. Smallaxe says:

    Hi Macart,

    Thank you, for this reminder;

    Heres one to keep you going.The Scottish media must have missed this; By mistake of course!

    Last evening Nicola made a speech at the David Hume Institute. No mention anywhere in the Scottish media. Read it here

  81. starlaw says:

    Compulsory singing of the National Anthem would be a Godsend to the Indy movement. It could be sung every morning in Schools Factories and Offices across the realm and at the end of every night in Picture houses and Dance halls….oh what fun.

  82. mr thms says:

    Good Morning Scotland skirting over the decision by the ‘treacherous’ Scottish Conservative and Unionist MPs to vote against the Labour amendment to the EU Withdrawal Bill.

    Opting instead for blanket coverage of the ‘treacherous’ road conditions.

  83. Les Wilson says:

    Torrence is an ashole of a man he has nothing to offer but will continue spitting shit as long as the media back him up.
    He has to live doesn’t he!, and he does not care how he does it.
    A Britnat at heart, well as long as it suits him to be.

    It is good for him to be stamped down like this, his lies once more exposed, another Scottish britnat creep.After Indy, I hope he goes down south, where his heart really belongs. He will not be wanted here by the very many who will not forget.

    In ref to the Commons vote yesterday, I hope the “Scottish Tories” get thrown out of Scotland, and don’t get me started about the Labour hypocrites, Corbyn is establishment through and through a secret Tory admirer, who actively supports them.
    Shame on him.

  84. Dr Jim says:

    @starlaw *The Anthem*

    I’m old enough to remember when that was actually the case
    Scotlands Cinemas and many social clubs and dance halls played the English national anthem at the end of every night,
    usually just before the end of the film in cinemas there was a mad dash to get out of the door before it started throughout Scotland so it’s a bit funny those same people who hated it then and ran out before the end want it brought back to make a point

    Even today if you try that in an Orange lodge social club or Massonic club your remains would likely not be found until the following morning

    That’s why social clubs throughout Scotland failed, well that and the theft of members cash by the folk running them
    which again strangely enough were mostly Labour party clubs like Miners clubs and there are still some bowling clubs who adhere to the practice (that’s to keep the wrong people out)

    I know this because over my life I’ve worked in almost every social club and dance hall in Scotland and played the damn thing for the mugs to get to their feet and stare proudly into space visioning HMQ flag waving behind her

    Oh how the musicians in the bands laughed at them as we inserted duff notes and over dramatised accentuations to make them stand more proudly at the rubbish we were playing and they hadn’t a clue WE were taking the mickey out of them

  85. Rachel Gray says:

    He’s obviously talking about a trip to West Virginia, not a trip to California. Because he mentions WV, says it’s not CA, and references the neighbour in DC. ??????

  86. Dr Jim says:

    Last nights vote:

    By denying and subverting democracy to Scotland it appears the latest tactic of the England government is to force acceptance and resignation of a losing mentality on Scots

    This is exactly the same tactic as the Spanish government has employed on Catalonia *You can have what you want as long as it’s what we tell you you want*

    Just give up and fade away Scotland there’s no point in fighting back you know it makes sense England will win and we’ll put an end to your “devolution” and your “independence”

    Dae ye bloody think so?!

  87. Dorothy Devine says:

    J have no doubt that lovely Tory would like this wee verse reinstated,

    Lord, grant that Marshal Wade
    May, by thy mighty aid,
    Victory bring.
    May he sedition hush
    And, like a torrent, rush
    Rebellious Scots to crush.
    God save the King.

  88. starlaw says:

    Lucky you, as part of an all catholic band who did not know the words of the Anthem, we nearly got lynched at Eastfield Miners club. This is the only club we were ever asked to play it. We were at that time a very young band and did not do the older clubs. oops I’m well off topic .

  89. Dorothy Devine says:

    P.S Hope you have all seen the delightful short films on TSTV about cities.

  90. Dr Jim says:

    Drumchapel Orange lodge I once had a guy at my feet blood pumping out of his head because he didn’t stand up quick enough and nobody called an ambulance till their beloved tune was over

    That was one I never went back to and stopped doing Orange clubs altogether after that
    We even nicknamed a football cub in Dundee called the Dundee violet the Dundee violent

    I could write a book now on sectarianism in clubs now I’m retired and don’t go to those places anymore but they would probably track me down and try to kill me

    Aah good times

  91. David MacGille-Mhuire says:

    Are The Dunc and Dan and the gorilla somehow related?

    I think we should be told.

    Oopsadaisy… The Vicar of Bath has already offered spiritual and empirical insights.

    Pax vobiscum, Dunc the Monk.

    PS You the albino, priestly assassin in that Hollywood blockbuster, by the way?

    Not much cop at that it would seem as you have just been garotted and flagellated.

    In nomine… etc…

  92. Rab Pollock says: these gorillas have previous when it comes to interfering in Scottish politics. Like the BBC showing a clip when of a gorilla from London Zoo when they should have showed the First Minister of Scotland.

  93. starlaw says:

    Last word on the music scene, until that night we did not know we were an all catholic band, In Livingston New Town only the now closed Legion demanded the anthem. Bet you’ve had some adventures , write your book.

  94. jfngw says:

    Wide coverage of the Tory in Scotland threat by the MSM, even the BBC carried the story with clips of ‘disgruntled’ MSP’s. After the vote at WM there has not been a peep so far, it has not even been reported as far as I can see, apart from The National.

    Story today will be snow on the BBC, it has all the depth of a local newspaper. BBC Scotland News or the Rutherglen Reformer the standard of journalism is of the same standard, not high.

  95. HandandShrimp says:

    No longer playing the national anthem on TV at the close of play was a major boon to health and safety. I think we all tripped over something at some point in the desperate rush to switch the telly off when that racket started. Remote controls were another major safety boon 🙂

  96. jfngw says:

    What will be the BBC headlines.

    Tories vote to take devolved powers


    Critics call for Transport Secretary to resign after heavy snow.

  97. Bob Mack says:

    This morning we stand on the edge of possible major changes in our Scottish system of government, enforced by Westminster.

    The question to be answered is “What do we do about it?”

    Until this plays out ,I suppose the answer is very little, but I serve fair warning that I am too long in the tooth to worry about the consequences of doing whatever I have to do , in order to resist this assimilation of my country into obscurity.

  98. Graham King says:

    To me, he is now and forever shall be
    David ‘Gorilla Channel’ Torrance.

    Perhaps we should use that form of address when writing to him, posting comments, referring to him, etc. Hey, it would even fit neatly on a placard, like this:
    | DAVID |
    | ‘Gorilla |
    | Channel’ |
    | TORRANCE |
    |’works’ here |

  99. Petra says:

    Thanks for the great informative links this morning Smallaxe / Nana X

    I see that Mr Leonard’s allegiance clearly lies with Westminster, England and not the Scots, just like his Better Together cronies the Scottish Tories. Soon to hold their Labour and Tory SiU Burn’s Night get together in Glasgow. Toasting each other, wee singalong, holding hands (again), planning future joint parties (get together at yoor hoose next week Johann ) and so on. More than anything no doubt planning their next moves against the Scottish people. Didn’t take them long to forget the advice that they were given in late 2014 and that was to be seen to distance themselves from each other. The good news is that it looks as though Leonard will be experiencing (creating) even greater rifts within the party, if that’s humanly possible, just like his big Boss Corbyn south of the border.

    ”Party reactions in Scotland spoke volumes to how the Scottish Brexit debate is stacking up. The pro-independence Greens backed the report as illustrating the “devastating” impact of Brexit. The Scottish Lib-Dems called it “useful”.

    Over the last 18 months, Scottish Labour had been backing the Scottish government in their push for Scotland to stay in the EU’s single market, even if the rest of the UK did not. Their reaction to this report showed how they are now changing under their new leadership. Scottish Labour chose to emphasise pushing for the best Brexit deal for the whole UK, rather than recognising the damaging impact even a “soft” Brexit could have……..

    The Tory strategy in Scotland appears to be to sidestep any serious debate on the damage Brexit will do by alleging even serious analysis on impact is really about independence. Anyone hoping Ruth Davidson or Scottish Labour might lead a push for “remain” – supported now by 68% of Scottish voters – should think again.


    God help the ordinary English people. This couldn’t have come at a worst time for them right enough.


    Did anyone see the ‘House of Saud’ (part 2) last night? Absolutely mindblowing what Westminster, BAE and the Saudis have been getting up to for decades now (greatest ever corrupt scam in the world) and it’s no wonder that the Norwegians want nothing to do with them. Bae that is.

  100. Bobp says:

    Les wilson 8.53am. “I hope the scottish tories get thrown out of Scotland “. I hope the people who VOTED for them, LEAVE Scotland.

  101. galamcennalath says:

    If the Tories announced the merger of NHS Scotland and England, or forced privatisation of Scottish Water, or scrapping of Highers to replace them with A Levels ….. the BBC would headline with a report about best snowman competition in Moffat..

  102. Smallaxe says:


    “This morning the Scottish People handed the Westminster Government a final Note stating that, unless we heard from them by 10 o’clock that they were prepared at once to withdraw their attempt to grab Holyrood, a state of war would exist between us.

    I have to tell you now that no such undertaking has been received, and that consequently, this country is at war with Westminster.”

  103. Petra says:

    Thanks for that link Liz (7:34am).


    ‘Hello and welcome.

    We’re a small band of amateur Broadcasters.

    Our aim is to broadcast a Positive Scotland to the world.

    Coming soon – We’ll be broadcasting News/Politics/Sport and weather.

    To support us, simply drop-by each day and watch at least 1 programme.

    Thank you.’


    Now is the time to have your say on who should be allowed to vote etc.


    @ Mary miles says at 7:53 am ….. ”…HERE’S TO INDEPENDENCE BEFORE THE YEAR IS OUT!! Regards to all wingers who genuinely fight for Scottish Independence.”

    Thanks for posting Mary and more than anything showing your support for us. I’m sending my best wishes to you and belated Happy New Year message for great health, wealth and happiness X

  104. Dr Jim says:

    The England government advises:

    People who voted Tory advised to stay home and keep their doors and windows firmly locked today in order to avoid disdainful looks which could lead to harsh words and pose a risk of name calling from Scottish people

  105. Robert Peffers says:

    @Dorothy Devine says: 17 January, 2018 at 6:56 am:

    “However , in kindness , perhaps they were jist daen fit they were telt”

    Well, Dorothy, , “jist daen fit they were telt”, was not accepted as a legal defence in the Nuremberg WWII war crimes trials. I believe it won’t be acceptable to the post Scottish Independence tractor trials. (conducted in the court of general public opinion).

  106. Robert Graham says:

    A discussion on making compulsory singing of the national anthem is taking place on the Wright Stuff just now .
    Try searching for the full lyrics of this on Google ,
    Mysteriously the offending line where Scots are mentioned is no where to be found ,
    Any enterprising poster provide the link to the offending verse .

  107. Petra says:

    Hamish MacPherson publishes some great historical articles in the National every week. This week is the first of a 3 part series on how ‘The Scottish Enlightenment can help us see the light in winning indy.’

    I wonder what people like Robert (P) will make of it? Agree? Disagree?

    Commences with:

    ”At the start of the 18th century the world was divided into a great many kingdoms and very few republics. The nation-state back then was usually a kingdom, and Scotland in 1706 was precisely that — a kingdom, ruled over by Queen Anne and the Scottish Parliament.

    The Treaty of Union of 1707 says it all: “That the Two Kingdoms of Scotland and England, shall upon the 1st May next ensuing the date hereof, and forever after, be United into One Kingdom by the Name Great Britain.”

    In other words, no matter how feloniously it was achieved, the two nation-states became one ruled over by Anne and the Parliament of Great Britain.

    It is no use denying it. Scotland as a nation-state ceased to exist in 1707, and though this is still a country and a nation as defined by the dictionary, the United Kingdom has been the controlling unitary nation-state in which we have lived for nearly 311 years.

    For that matter, in strictly legal terms, until the British Nationality Act of 1948 we were not citizens but subjects of Her Majesty. In some legal matters, we still are subjects, but we are all now citizens of the UK if we meet the relevant criteria and we are citizens of the European Union, though not for much longer by the looks of things.

    It is the job of historians to chart the past but it should be the vocation of historians, professional and amateur, to make sure that the people of the present do not repeat the follies of the past. History has much to teach us at this point in time in the life of Scotland, but I see precious few historians teaching from a pro-independence viewpoint…..”

  108. Bob Mack says:

    Please remember the words today of Martin Luther King who said “Freedom is NEVER given by an oppressor, it has to be demanded”.

  109. Petra says:

    @ Smallaxe at 10:22am …….

    Ha, ha, ha. Brilliant.

  110. Petra says:

    Last one before I head out for those who are interested in Scottish history.

    ‘Aberdeenshire monastery find could unlock secrets of Book of Deer.’

  111. One_Scot says:

    If you are not majorly pissed off about what the 13 Scottish Tory MSPs did to Scotland last night, then you have not been paying attention.

  112. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Smallaxe @ 08:31,
    Thanks for that link to Nicola’s speech. (I hope schrodingers cat has read and inwardly digested it! =grin=)

    Among other things, she says:

    …the whole principle underpinning the Scotland Act that is the the foundation legislation of the Scottish Parliament is that all policy matters are devolved to Scotland unless they are specifically reserved under the Scotland Act. Effectively it is saying that in these matters that are repatriated, everything is reserved unless the UK government in future decides to devolve them.

    This is a constitutional matter. The UK Supreme Court dodged this issue last time, in effect saying that any impasse should be solved politically, but I can’t see this one being dismissed so easily. “All things not reserved are devolved” was clearly a founding principle, so to row back on that now breaks the (unwritten) constitution.

    But wait a mo’. Article 50 requires that when a country chooses [NB: not “asks”] to leave the EU, it must do so “according to its constitution”. So the UK will be in breach of that article if it continues to pursue the course it has started in WM yesterday.

    Could be going all the way to the ECJ…?

  113. Macart says:


    One from May last year. Last night wasn’t entirely unexpected.

  114. Robert Graham says:

    thanks smallaxe for the link ,i eventfully found verse 6 which i believe is the offending one ,

    I also found a probably SIU affiliation based in Glasgow 48 west George street known as a force for good , who strenuously try and debunk this verse ever existed , aye re-writing history a favourite of unionists .

  115. Smallaxe says:


    We have before us an ordeal of the most grievous kind. We have behind us many, many long years of struggle and of suffering. You ask, what is our policy? I will say: It is to wage war, by sea, land, and air, with all our might and with all the strength that God can give us; to wage war against a monstrous tyranny never surpassed in the dark, lamentable catalogue of human crime. That is our policy. You ask, what is our aim? I can answer in one word: It is independence, independence at all costs, independence in spite of all terror, independence, however long and hard the road may be.

  116. Breeks says:

    Hate to point it out, but 13 Tories elected on a ticket of “no to a second IndyRef” and keeping Scotland subjugated by Westminster, have conspicuously more to show for their efforts than our own determination to secure independence. Such progress as we have made seems, well, let’s just say it’s hidden below the waterline, (or hidden beneath 50/50 watershed in opinion polls if you want to be pedantic).

    I know, I know, with the Tory oddballs it’s definitive tail wagging the dog stuff, but when there is no pro Independence campaign, only mild anti-Brexit rhetoric, but certainly no pro-Europe ongoing narrative to speak of, indeed we are still happy that the Unionists talk about Independence more than we do, then personally, I’m afraid I am simply lost.

    Scottish Sovereignty as the ultimate all conquering argument seems fenced off as a no go area, direct negotiation with Europe is fenced off because Scotland has no interlocutor status. Scotland’s Remain majority is already dismissed as a matter of no consequence, the propagandists are still in the front seats at ScotGov Press conferences, and the Unionists can obsess about Independence at will, but we’re not supposed to mention it.

    Don’t get me wrong, I very much heartily approve of the SNP’s Brexit Assessment, which properly shames David Davis and his dishonest sham about Westminster’s non existent assessments, and yet… and yet… where was it before the Brexit Referendum? Or indeed any of the subsequent months thereafter? Ok, better late than never, and that is literally the absolute truth, but forgive me, isn’t it getting late in the day when the only issue gathering momentum is not Holyrood halting Brexit but Westminster hardening it?

    We are a little over one year and a month away from judgement day, when Scotland will be unceremoniously dragged out of Europe against our democratic mandate to remain. That gives us 14 months to co-ordinate resistance to Brexit, and cite that irrational economic stupidity, xenophobic embarrassment and fundamental democratic deficit which Brexit represents, and fashion such arguments into a compelling coordinated campaign with good cause not only to warrant a second Independence referendum, but win it, and win it in time and on a mandate that somehow grants Scotland a last minute stay of execution on its EU Membership.

    Granted, I’m a political nobody, so I might be excused for not knowing the greater plans for Overlord, and I might too be condemned speaking out of line, but forgive me the metaphor, – in all those pictures of snowbound Scottish roads it’s definitely snow causing the disruption, not line after line of Sherman YES tanks, marching Grassroots troops, YES barrage balloons and cute wee dogs with saltire dog tags being stockpiled at the ready for Scotland’s much anticipated D-Day.

    So much to do, and so little time to do it… but hold! Whatever you do, don’t mention the “I” word.

    It’s not being alarmist by the way… (or God help us, maybe it is), but when Donald Tusk said yesterday or the day before, “You know it’s not too late to change your mind about Brexit”, I got the distinct impression he was looking round the room desperate to make eye contact… Hold that thought Mr Tusk!

    29th March 2019 is 436 days away. Salvation, if it happens at all, by definition must happen sooner.

  117. galamcennalath says:

    Tories in Scotland – people who reject the opportunity to be Scottish and instead aspire to be Second Class English

  118. Fred says:

    Thepnr! Why did Mundell get shot of mouthpiece Torrance one wonders?

  119. Smallaxe says:

    You should start telling fortunes, you have the gift!

    Robert Graham,
    You’re welcome Robert, it’s up to us to write Scotlands future and make W/Minster history

  120. Highland Wifie says:

    I am in total despair this morning. What is the point of Scottish Tory MPs? Waste of space doesn’t even begin to describe their complete irrelevance. I could accept the fact that they are useless if they did no damage but they are actively harming Scotland and putting Devolution in peril.
    Thank goodness I am not represented by one of them or my mental health would be in severe meltdown.

    I read Nicola’s speech at the David Hume Institute (thanks for the link Smallaxe) and I was left with a feeling of foreboding that I can’t shake. The long term population projections for Scotland are in the opposite direction from those of the rUK and without immigration and/or independence our population will continue to decline as inward migration makes up the bulk of any increase. This is welcome to support our population but we would be foolish to ignore the danger of turning into another region of England but with kilts and bagpipes.
    At least with independence we can protect the aspects of our culture which make Scotland a welcoming, outward looking country, happy to live and work together with everyone who wants to be here.

    I hope my mood is a January post New Year doldrums. Surely everyone cannot be taken in by the garbage that is in the media. It can’t get much worse and yet there seems to be a national shrugging of the shoulders. Wakey wakey!

  121. Petra says:

    @ One_Scot says at 10:49 am …… ”If you are not majorly pissed off about what the 13 Scottish Tory MSPs did to Scotland last night, then you have not been paying attention.”

    Well One_Scot all I can say is that they are playing right into our (Nicola’s) hands or as the saying goes ”give them enough rope and they’ll hang themselves.” They did that last night as far as I can make out and will probably have swayed some of the ‘sitting on the fence’ types to vote Yes next time around. Helpful as it looks as though we only need to convert around 2% of people now. More would be great of course but not necessary.

    It’s up to us now to disseminate this far and wide, as we know that the individuals who have the brass necks to call themselves journalists in Scotland won’t do so or will cherry-pick, omit crucial facts and so on. That includes getting the video out there that outlines the 111 powers that they’re trying to hold on to (most of them). I came across the video yesterday, but can’t remember where now! Maybe someone else will come up with it?

    We should also be reminding people what this means for us in real terms between loss of Human Rights and Westminster regaining control over fracking, GM crops etc, etc, etc. Long term aim of course dismantling Holyrood altogether.

    Roll on Independence Day. Control over broadcasting, Scots being enlightened and no more of having to combat the corrupt Media. No more tramping the streets, knocking on doors, posting literature etc. By God I’m feeling great already, lol.

  122. Breeks says:

    Torrance’s Gorilla Channel might be a spoof, but a “guerrilla” Channel, standing up for Scotland would be just what the doctor ordered.

  123. heedtracker says:

    One_Scot says:
    17 January, 2018 at 10:49 am
    If you are not majorly pissed off about what the 13 Scottish Tory MSPs did to Scotland last night, then you have not been paying attention.”

    What’s that all about then? been tuned in to beeb gimp network news since 6.30 this morn and have no idea what you’re on about.

  124. Smallaxe says:

    Robert J. Sutherland,

    Thank you.

  125. PictAtRandom says:

    Time to ease off by watching “Journalists In The Mist”.

    Meanwhile, a safari park has found itself short of 13 monkeys, which is great news for Hear No Evil, See No Sleaze, Don’t Even Think About How To Vote On Brexit and the other ten square pegs in a round hole.

  126. Smallaxe says:

    heedtracker says:

    “What’s that all about then? been tuned in to beeb gimp network news since 6.30 this morn and have no idea what you’re on about.”

    That’s the beeb gimp networks idea, to leave you with no idea.

  127. yesindyref2 says:

    @Ken500 “Some posters go on the Herald for the unionists. Then come on this site for Independence. Bit weird or trolling.

    So let me get this right, you’d prefer no Indy supporter to post on the Herald, so that lines like this by the constant and increasing stream of unionists point there would remain unchallenged, so that any casual reader would think it was the whole truth?

    The corollary given is that he was Chancellor before then so it’s his fault, however both HBOS (because Lloyds were subject of a bailout only after acquiring the failing HBOS) and RBS were the only two banks of note, both Edinburgh banks, who needed bailing out.

    Or would you prefer there to be an industrious Indy supporter “patiently” point out that the casino banking operations that nearly brought these banks down, took place in the City of London in London, not Edinburgh? (mainly).

    In Indy ref 1, Indy posters outnumbered unionist posters about 10 to 1, and were active in forums all over the place, correcting the misinformation in both articles and the few unionist postings, while support for YES rose from 25-28% to 45%.

    Now it’s the other way around, unionists to Indy 10 to 1 at times, even including The National, and YES has risen to just 49%.

    Think about it.

  128. Jack Murphy says:

    NEWS TODAY. TRUTH in Toryland, Ben Bradley the Tory MP for Mansfield,in 2012 suggested benefit claimants should have vasectomies.[!]

    Mr Bradley MP,was made Tory Vice-Chair for Youth at Conservative CHQ in London by Theresa May in last week’s reshuffle. 🙁

    David Mundell or Ruth Davidson will surely have a word to say on this outrageous slur on claimants.

  129. Petra says:

    @ Breeks says at 11:02 am ….. ”… Don’t get me wrong, I very much heartily approve of the SNP’s Brexit Assessment, which properly shames David Davis and his dishonest sham about Westminster’s non existent assessments, and yet… and yet… where was it before the Brexit Referendum? Or indeed any of the subsequent months thereafter? …”

    Oh well I’ve heard it all now. SNP Baad amplified.

    ”So much to do, and so little time to do it… but hold! Whatever you do, don’t mention the “I” word.”

    There’s lots of great work going on in Scotland Breeks, WAY beyond this site. Why not join a group or just set one up yourself? Keep yourself busy and keep the blues at bay …. as they say.

    Most of us realise that if we could convert one person each to the cause we would be home and dry. Taking it that the SNP are our only means of getting there how many people do you reckon that you’ve actually driven away?

  130. Liz g says:

    Petra @ 10.41 re the article you posted!

    Except Petra…that’s no exactly what the Treaty says.
    That particular bit if memory serves say STYLED as the United Kingdom.
    While some might argue that’s as near as make’s no difference it is, at the very least open to interpretation…. which seems to be the norm for all legal speak.

    Anyhoo the bit that doesn’t seem to be in dispute is that it is, in fact, ” a Treaty “… the “forever after” bit must surely only apply for the duration of the Treaty.

    As for a nation state ceasing to exist that’s quite a claim!
    Whit exactly ceased?
    Scot’s law?
    Scot’s education?
    Ah well mibbi the parliament?
    Naw they are all still there….although the Parliament did go “on a break” for quite a wee while.
    Did the Treaty no explicitly say all of that was included and protected anyway?
    Well that’s how I read it.

    So the Treaty caused nothing to cease to exist,and caused nothing to come in to existence.
    Treaties do not have that kind of power!
    Even if signed by a Queen!
    But mair tae the point Treaty terms and conditions only apply for as long as the parties who signed it want to keep the Treaty as a live document!
    Just like the Treaty between Westminster and the EU.

    What it did…And All That It Did….

    Was give a legal way for the politicians from Scotland and England to work oot the wan building.

    And the evidence for this is the undisputed fact that…..since the Treaty was signed and to this day….the Westminster Parliament STILL can’t make One law for the whole Island, there has to be and has always had to be,a Scottish version of any legislation that they attempt to write!

    The only question is do we still want to be bound by that Treaty or do we want to set it aside and not be under it’s terms and conditions any more.
    AKA….is that Treaty still working for you?

    Well that’s my view on that article Petra…hope it help’s.

  131. Robert Peffers says:

    @Dorothy Devine says: 17 January, 2018 at 9:11 am:

    “Lord, grant that Marshal Wade
    May, by thy mighty aid,
    Victory bring.
    May he sedition hush
    And, like a torrent, rush
    Rebellious Scots to crush.
    God save the King.

    The real laughable thing though is that most Scots who deplore that verse and even deplore that anthem do not get the real irony that exists.

    The first printed version of that anthem was in, “The Gentleman’s Magazine”:-

    ” The first published version of “God Save the King”, very similar to the present tune, appeared in Thesaurus Musicus in 1744. It became a popular patriotic song the following year, coinciding with the Jacobite Rebellion.

    It is rumoured to have been sung by forces loyal to the King (George II) after the defeat at the Battle of Prestonpans. A version of the song appears in the Gentleman Magazine of 1745, where it was referred to as “God save our Lord the King. A new song set for two voices” and there are records that it was being performed at Covent Garden theatre after each performance. Thomas Arne composed a special version for the Drury Lane theatre.”

    Now here is the true history of what the English still call, “The Jacobite Rebellion.

    English history claims there was a, “Union of the Crowns in 1603 when the Monarch of Scotland inherited the crown of England. Now the Rule of Law in 1603 England was still, “The Divine Right of Kings”, in 1603.

    Under which rule of law a monarch who defeated another monarch in war, inherited another kingdom or married into another kingdom, just tagged the newly acquired Kingdom onto his existing kingdom. This did not change until 1688 and the so English, “Glorious REVOLUTION.”

    The Divine Right of Kings remained the law of the, (three country), Kingdom of England until 1688. Yet because Scottish Monarchs are not legally sovereign, (have no Divine Right to Rule), the monarch who inherited the English Crown could not tag the Kingdom of England onto the Scottish Kingdom. It simply was not his to do anything with as the people of Scotland were then already legally after the Declaration of Arbroath of 1320 and they are still legally sovereign today.

    In 1688 it was the English Parliament that REBELLED against the monarch of England, who wore both British crowns independently, and they deposed that monarch. They then imported the foreign join monarchs of King Billy & Queen Mary of Orange but only on condition that these imported monarchs legally delegated their Devine Right, (sovereignty), to the Parliament of England. Thus making the Kingdom of England only into a Constitutional Monarchy. Yet in 1688 Scotland was still an independent kingdom so English law could not be applied to Scottish matters.

    So the real historic truth is that there was no Union of the Crowns, The English Parliamentarians were thus the real rebels and were set on forcing Scotland to also depose their rightful monarch. Thus the Jacobites were not rebels because you cannot rebel against a monarch not your own. The Jacobites were fighting to retain their rightful monarch but note that the English were still slaughtering Jacobites as rebels at Culloden almost 40 years after the Treaty of Union of 1706/7 was signed.

    It was because of Prince Charles army marching upon London that the so called National Anthem was written as a prayer for God to save the King of England from the Scots army – hence the notorious verse you quote above.

    Hands up how many Scots were taught the false history explained above in their Scottish Schools?

  132. Liz g says:

    Breeks @ 11.02
    Why would the Scottish Government prepare an impact assessment before the Brexit vote.
    All the Scottish parties said leave would be a disaster.
    Scotland listened and voted to stay.

    Ensuring that we do stay is once again up to the Scot’s.
    Our first minister has said many time’s just say the word (YES) and I will make it happen.

    Now the Scottish government is sayin, here is what will happen if Scotland sticks with the 2014 decision, but you can still have a choice, just let us know what you want.

    It can’t make Scotland do anything… all it can do….and all it should do is put all the choices on the table.
    I’m just glad that we have the Government we do and not one so blinded by the concept of the Union.
    That we had no choice.

  133. heedtracker says:

    Smallaxe says:
    17 January, 2018 at 11:25 am
    heedtracker says:

    “What’s that all about then? been tuned in to beeb gimp network news since 6.30 this morn and have no idea what you’re on about.”

    That’s the beeb gimp networks idea, to leave you with no idea.

    This is the first time I’ve been rather creeped out by them all NOT reporting anything about what happened last night, first time since yesterday.

    NOT informing Scots BBC style, is just as powerful a propaganda weapon as lying to us, future Lady Sarah Smith 100,000 Scots A&E tragedy/hoax.

  134. Smallaxe says:


  135. yesindyref2 says:

    Yes, the SNP did a Brexit assessment even before the EU Ref, laughed at by the Unionits [1] of course.

    [1} noticed the mispelling, seemed appropriate somehow

  136. Breeks says:

    @Petra and Liz..

    Honest question, what do you think is a reasonable time frame to launch an Indy campaign, affect the appropriate swing in the polls, hold and win a referendum, and then hold dialogue with EU to park Scotland’s Brexit up a cul-de-sac, and hold similar dialogue with Westminster over who gets the dog before it’s Brexited down the middle?

    Doesn’t a year, or any lesser timeframe seem ambitious to you? Or have “we” lowered our sights and are currently aiming much lower, at least in terms of a positive Brexit outcome? Sorry Fido.

  137. yesindyref2 says:

    OT already
    Had to look this up, so yrtis in case anyone starts going on about the UK bailing out Scottish banks after tha bank crisis – the Yanks had to bailout British banks because that’s where the banking took place. Like the casino banking which took place (mostly) in the City of London, it wasn’t and isn’t, Scotland’s problem.

    “British banks account for $640 bn of Federal Reserve bailout money “

  138. yesindyref2 says:

    You didn’t ask me but here’s my view as I’ve work to do. Say deal (or no deal) is settled in September. Just a few details before the formal deal goes for ratification to the EU-27 and the UK parliaments, and just before that is the time to strike and announce a Ref will be held, say using my date, 14th March 2019.

    3 month campaign, most movement happened in the last 2 months, even 2 weeks, of the last Ref, people get bored but are awake to Indy anyway, whether YES, NO or don’t know right now. That gives Holyrood and the ScotGov near 3 months to set the thing up, question, electoral commision, polling stations, the lot.

    Meanwhile however the UK is in limbo because it needs to exit on 29th March 2019, in terms with that Article 50 invocation, which is in terms of the “member state’s constitution”. So is the EU in limbo.

    So quickly there’s an amendment to the deal to allow for a YES vote from Scotland, and then the deal goes for ratification to the EU-27 + the UK Parliament. Then the UK or rUK can leave anyway, regardless of the result of our Indy Ref 2. What that amendment will be is hopefully a provisional transition for Scotland while we formally apply, and the EU-27 may well insist on a confirmation EU Referendum on the terms of negotiations.

    Job done as planned.

  139. CameronB Brodie says:

    Some on here may find it truly laughable the debate this morning on the ITV programme ‘good morning britain’ at 0810 this morning. Apparently, a Tory MP wants singing the English national anthem to be made compulsory.

    Staggering nonsense about ‘british values’. And they wonder why Scots want out of this god forsaken and undemocratic union with little England.

    They really have lost the plot in England.

    Britain is the result of three centuries of methodological nationalism*, a concerted effort aimed at encouraging a sense of nationhood across the separate kingdoms we have all come to know as the “home nations”. Not only has this venture failed, due to a lack of any equilibrium of cross-national power-sharing, it is the articulation of blood-and-soil nationalism and social Darwinism. This Tory MP simply appears to be calling for more of the same. Perhaps he has a touch of the post-colonial melancholia?

    “England, His England”

    A Review of Paul Gilroy, Postcolonial Melancholia (New York: Columbia University Press, 2005). Published in the UK as After Empire: Multiculture or Postcolonial Melancholia (London: Routledge, 2004).

    *(pomp, ceremony, flags, made-up tradition and stuff)

  140. Scott says:

    ‘Fake Tales of San Francisco’. Wonder if he is a fan of the Arctic Moneys.

  141. Petra says:

    @ Breeks says 2018 at 1:05 pm …. ”@Petra and Liz..Honest question, what do you think is a reasonable time frame to launch an Indy campaign, affect the appropriate swing in the polls, hold and win a referendum, and then hold dialogue with EU to park Scotland’s Brexit up a cul-de-sac, and hold similar dialogue with Westminster over who gets the dog before it’s Brexited down the middle? Doesn’t a year, or any lesser timeframe seem ambitious to you? Or have “we” lowered our sights and are currently aiming much lower, at least in terms of a positive Brexit outcome? Sorry Fido.”

    Breeks I’ve just returned home and I’m in a bit of a rush, so to cut a long story short I’m thinking along the same lines as yesindyref2 (thanks for that, lol), although I think we’ll have 4/5 months to get the ‘main’ campaign up and running. Nicola Sturgeon has produced documentation in an attempt to stymie Westminster every step of the Brexit way and has been seen to be working on behalf of ALL Scots which has been crucial to this process, imo. Next up a white paper re. our future currency and so on. You can also see that they are involving the public in a consultation in relation to the electoral franchise. To my mind it’s all coming together from their end with Nicola having to get her timing right such as not producing anything prematurely which would give them, Unionists, years / months to tear things to shreds. Walking a tightrope.

    As far as the EU is concerned I reckon where there’s a will there’s a way (transition), especially as our situation will be unique (other countries can’t gripe too much), we have loads of resources and assets on offer and they’ll want to boot England up the backside (not very nice but that’s life). They’ll also be absolutely determined to see us become / remain successful so will do their utmost to prevent our economy from floundering in the interim period. As they see it, it could also send out a clear message to countries that are thinking of leaving the EU, leave and you may find that your country splinters with countries / areas / regions wanting to remain with us. As to Spain I’m sure that a bit of ‘coercion’ or ‘blackmailing’ will go on if need be. Again not nice, but ..

    And if not the EU I’d be happy to join EFTA until we can get our EU act together. Don’t forget too that the EU (and Junker) will no doubt be facing some major challenges along the way and who knows where that will end up.

    I also think that’s where, or more so when (in winning the referendum), the ‘sovereignty’ issue … we are a Kingdom in our own right (and different from Catalonia) … will kick in as far as the EU and the UN are concerned.

    Where I do agree with you .. maybe .. (because I don’t know if you’ve ever brought this up) … is that I’m pretty miffed with the fact that no strong umbrella group has emerged that could have taken on board training activists, setting up groups across the country led by the activists; organised events; produced resources / posters etc. All of these brains (some of the big shots with big detrimental ego’s too) and energy going to waste, imo. Thousands of us who could have been holding workshops the length and breadth of the country. Anyway to my mind that was down to us, NOT Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP.

    More than anything I’m relying on STUART CAMPBELL, lol. Do you hear me STU? I’m hoping he’s been working behind the scenes too, producing HIS white paper, getting another wee coloured book at the ready to be fired through every letterbox in Scotland. Just waiting on him getting a MASSIVE crowdfunder off of the ground. Target £1 million.

    Well so much for my ”to cut a long story short”, lol.

    I’d better get a move on, so will repond to anyone who got back to me, later, such as Liz and yesindyref2.

  142. Liz g says:

    Breeks @ 1.05
    I think early 2019 is the best time to call Indy ref 2.
    And not because I am less ambitious for Scotland but because I am more ambitious.
    Why should the Scot’s cobble together our constitutional arrangements within the timetable that Westminster and the EU are on?
    That’s their problem,we didn’t create it, England voted out,and the EU wrote article 50,which Westminster triggered!

    We, as in the Scottish government should just keep on makin it clear that Scottish resources aren’t necessarily going to be included in any final deal those two put together.

    We will be choosing what we want to do about the incompatibility of the 2014 and 2015 referendums going forward.
    So as long as Indy ref two is called before Brexit actually happens then Westminster and the EU will just have to make the adjustments they think they need to.
    We can do nothing about it anyway and probably shouldn’t even try.
    We don’t even get in the room!
    But they will have to wait and see what we decide!
    Better that than calling Indy ref 2 early and Westminster respond with Brexit 2.
    In fact I’d be quite happy with just calling it before Brexit and holding it in the May or September,if a transition period was included in the EU/Westminster arrangement.

    All we can realistically do is have a vote and instruct our own politicians to go with Westminster and their deal, or end the 1707 Treaty arrangements.

    As for the time it take’s to end the Union and get our position with the EU sorted …..well that’s a two way street Breeks, it will take,as long as it take’s
    This time “Both” Scotland and England need to reach an agreement for their own reasons.

    We have more to disentangle with Westminster,than Westminster and the EU do, and we should be concentrating on getting that right,then looking at the packages on offer in Europe.
    The EU will just have to make allowances for our situation, and I can’t see why they wouldn’t.
    As Robert Peffers often reminds us…the EU has no mechanism of expelling it’s citizens.
    But more than that….as I understand it EU Treaty’s are written to be compatible with a country’s own constitutional arrangements.
    Well em…we still need to write the Scottish Constitution so the EU will need to accommodate at least that!

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