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The outstanding balance

Posted on February 10, 2019 by

We had an interesting exchange with Scottish Labour MP Paul Sweeney this week on the deathless lie that is the “fiscal transfer” – the £10bn or so that Unionists rather startlingly insist the rest of the UK generously donates to Scotland every year out of the goodness of its heart, just for the pleasure of our company.

As you can see, the debate was of a high intellectual standard.

But to be fair it got a bit better than that, and because Twitter is now such a hopeless mess to try to follow a thread in, we thought it merited running through again.

According to GERS – which Unionists inexplicably insist on treating as a guide to an independent Scotland’s finances even though everyone including them knows it isn’t – Scotland currently pays around £3.5bn a year on servicing the UK’s public sector debt.

And that’s a little odd if you stop and think about it, because the Scottish Government has almost no borrowing powers, and until very recently Holyrood was only permitted total cumulative borrowing of £500m (now £1.75bn).

So how on Earth could it have racked up so much debt that the interest alone comes to £3.5bn a year? And the answer is of course that it couldn’t and it didn’t. The debt interest figure in GERS is Scotland’s contribution to the UK’s debt, as Paul Sweeney eventually admitted.

In other words, Scotland is subsidising the UK’s debt repayments by billions of pounds every year, even though Scotland didn’t run up any of those debts.

Ah, say the Unionists, but the UK spends more money per head on Scotland than it does in most of the rest of the UK, so effectively we DID run up that debt, because the UK gave us more than it received from Scotland in taxes and we owe that money – not to international banks but to the UK.

(In other words, they’re saying that the “fiscal transfer” of that extra expenditure by the UK is a loan that Scotland is paying back, which is exactly what we said in the first place and which Sweeney flatly denied.)

The problem is that that isn’t true either.

As alert readers of this site will know, the eminent (and extremely Unionist) economist Prof. Brian Ashcroft calculated the cash balance between Scotland and the UK back in 2013, in an attempt to prove that Scotland HADN’T effectively had its oil money stolen by Westminster. And unfortunately for him, he discovered that in fact it had.

When he calculated the data as far back as records are available – and he deserves credit for publishing his findings even when they turned out to be the opposite of what he was hoping for – Ashcroft found that up to 2012, Scotland had contributed £68bn more to UK coffers than it had received back in spending, including both the Scottish block grant (controlled by Holyrood) and all spending by Westminster “on behalf of” Scotland.

Ashcroft noted that Scotland had received back 95% of the tax revenues it generated, which inescapably means that the other 5% was a net subsidy from Scotland to the rest of the UK – rather than Scotland being subsidised BY the UK as Unionists constantly assert.

Now, in real terms that £68bn surplus would be worth a lot more. UK government expenditure “on Scotland’s behalf” includes a considerable amount of spending on things Scotland didn’t ask for and didn’t want, like a contribution of several billion pounds towards the Iraq war. And since most of the surplus was accrued early in the period, it would have earned billions (probably many tens of billions) more in interest, investment income or other economic returns.

(For example, if some of it had been spent on infrastructure projects, they could have been delivered far more cheaply than the murderously expensive PFI schemes that Labour and the Tories used to pay for them.)

But let’s be really generous to the Unionists and assume that Scotland’s rainy day fund would have stood at just that bare £68bn at the start of 2013. What they tell us now is that oil money is in the past, the milk is spilt, and present-day Scotland runs a deficit so we’d still be broke and paying billions in debt repayments.

But we know the sums for that claim and we can check them, using only their beloved GERS. So let’s get the calculator out.

According to GERS – and let’s always keep in mind the many significant flaws and irrelevancies of the document – Scotland accumulated a total notional deficit from the beginning of 2013 to the end of 2018 of £54.7bn.

(We should also remember that the period covers a huge and very unusual oil-price collapse, and is therefore a lot worse than the “norm” for Scotland. For comparison, the previous five-year period saw a total shortfall of £30.2bn, not much over half of the 2013-18 figure. Of that £30bn, over £17bn was interest payments on the UK’s debt, making the “real” deficit a modest £2.6bn a year.)

So if we’d started 2013 with a £68bn surplus, we’d still have a minimum of £13.3bn in the bank (in reality far more, but remember we’re being as generous to the Unionists as possible here).

And since with no debt we obviously wouldn’t have been paying any debt interest, we’d also have saved £16.5bn in the same period (see the first table in this article), bringing Scotland’s total bank balance to a healthy £29.8bn surplus.

And that, readers, is the reality of the “fiscal transfer”. Far from being a leech on UK finances, Scotland is still – even after a decade-long financial crisis, the PFI burden and with oil revenues close to zero due to spectacular UK mismanagement – nearly £30 billion in the black. We’d be one of the most economically healthy nations on the face of the planet.

Every penny of that £30bn is cash that Scotland has subsidised the rest of the UK with rather than keeping it in Scotland and spending it on stuff WE want. Every penny we pay towards the UK’s debts is money effectively being stolen from Scotland on an annual basis. But if we point that out, we suddenly become evil greedy monsters.

That, readers, is what Unionists mean when they talk about “pooling and sharing resources”. There IS a fiscal transfer between Scotland and the UK, but it goes in the opposite direction to the one you’re constantly told it does. Scotland doesn’t owe the UK a penny, but sends it billions of pounds every year to help it out of its self-created financial mess.

And if you ever actually get Unionists to engage in debate, they’re forced to grudgingly (and usually accidentally) admit it, which is why they almost never do engage in debate. We’d like to sincerely thank Paul Sweeney for being the exception, even if he didn’t mean to be.

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    1. 10 02 19 13:56

      The outstanding balance | speymouth

    590 to “The outstanding balance”

    1. FM says:

      And that, above, is why my better half always gets out her bank card when you crowdfund.

    2. John Lowe says:

      Brilliant Rev. Saved shared on Facebook and Twitter.

    3. Truth says:

      Why would anyone believe that their neighbour can spend their money better than them?

      And if you’re picking up the tab, why wouldn’t they borrow?

    4. Padoir says:

      It is enough to make you sick, isn’t it. What’s the most effective way to get this information disseminated as widely as possible? Maybe the BBC could run this detailed analysis by way of apologising for their disgraceful bias on Question Time?? If only!!

    5. Dr Jim says:

      Scottish Labour MP admits Scotland has always been robbed

      In a shock exchange of words with online Wings over Scotland blogger Labour MP Paul Sweeney blurts out the truth of the theft of Scotlands wealth and goes on to admit the duplicity of the UK government in its cover up of the facts

      Front page headlines in the Scotsman? The Herald? The Daily Record then? No?

      Thought not

    6. smac1314 says:

      And can Mr Sweeney tell us how much we will have to pay for a Brexit we didn’t vote for? Or have we just to suck it up as part of the pooling and sharing?

    7. Robert Louis says:

      Excellent dissection of the British Nationalist lies.

      I often wonder if Paul Sweeney (and other British Nationalists in the Labour party) actually believes the things ha says, or whether he knows they are a pack of lies? I mean, how could any sane person think oil rich Scotland is being subsidised by England. Do people like Paul believe what they say about Scotland because it is what they have always thought, but have never actually sat down and looked properly at the evidence, to check if the Labour party ‘dogma’ about Scotland is true?

      What I find remarkable, is that some Scots still fall for the ‘too poor’ lies. If, for just one second we assumed that England subsidised Scotland, we are faced with the fact that right wing xenophobic and racist England, desperately wants to hang on to a country which they have to ‘subsidise’.

      Honestly, it is blindingly obvious that the reason why England so desperately wants to hang on to Scotland, is because Scotland subsidises England. That is what colonies are for. It is what colonies have always been for.

      As if England’s racist, greedy tories would want to subsidise Scotland. Honestly, the idea is laughable.

      Scotland is a a wealthy nation, currently shackled in wholly undemocratic union with another country called England which is bleeding it dry. We shouldn’t just demand independence, but also hand England an invoice for ALL the money they have stolen from Scotland.

      I just wish the referendum would get called before 29th March, after which it will be too late.

    8. call me dave says:

      Your articles are getting better and better Rev.

      Devastating stuff. 🙂

    9. Breastplate says:

      Don’t forget Rev,
      from 1979 to 1997 there was also £31 billion transfer from Scotland to the U.K.
      lord Waldegrave admitted this, so it’s been going on for a lot longer.

    10. Essexexile says:

      Unfortunately, it’s rather similar to comparing domestic energy tariffs in that it’s too complicated for most folks to be bothered to understand.
      Deliberately complicated of course.

    11. Breastplate says:

      Sorry, forgot to mention there was a bit of an overlap on Ashcroft’s paper but the point still stands that there was a massive fiscal transfer from Scotland to the rUK.

    12. Breastplate says:

      And while we’re on the subject and as you rightly point out, we are paying for things that Scotland has no use for and gains no benefits from like HS2, Crossrail, London sewers, House of Parliament renovation and much more.
      If Scotland was independent, we certainly wouldn’t be paying towards enhancing infrastructure of another country when we need it here ourselves.

    13. Breastplate says:

      The British Nationalists argument that the US couldn’t support itself financially,

      The Costs of Revolution
      Where the money is to come from which will defray this enormous annual expense of three millions sterling, and all those other debts, I know not; unless the author of Common Sense, or some other ingenious projector, can discover the Philosopher’s Stone, by which iron and other base metals may be transmuted into gold. Certain I am that our commerce and agriculture, the two principal sources of our wealth, will not support such an expense. The whole of our exports from the Thirteen United Colonies, in the year 1769, amounted only to £2,887,898 sterling; which is not so much, by near half a million, as our annual expense would be were we independent of Great Britain. Those exports; with no inconsiderable part of the profits arising from them, it is well known, centered finally in Britain to pay the merchants and manufacturers there for goods we had imported thence—and yet left us still in debt! What then must our situation be, or what the state of our trade, when oppressed with such a burden of annual expense! When every article of commerce, every necessary of life, together with our lands, must be heavily taxed to defray that expense!
      —Charles Inglis, 1776, Pennsylvania

      Their arguments haven’t changed one bit in centuries, it’s pathetic really.

    14. Cubby says:

      Another excellent analysis of the Britnat scam that is the UKs pooling of resources. This has been going on for a long long time yet still there are people in Scotland who think the UK subsidises Scotland. Control of the media in Scotland allows the Westminster crooks to get away with it, ably assisted by the Britnats in Scotland, who know fine well the truth but sell out their own country for personal advancement/interests.

      The Britnats have only one card to play – lying.

      The British Nationalists lie and they lie all the time about almost everything

    15. Capella says:

      Well they need the money.

    16. Graham says:

      “the UK government’s mismanagement of oil and gas taxation removes billions in revenues from Scotland’s national accounts”

      This from an article in The Herald of all places.

      Westminster claims through gers that tax revenue from oil produced in Scotland is earned by England.
      Filthy lying cheating parasites.

    17. Cubby says:

      Robert Louis @11.53pm

      I believe people like Sweeney know fine well they are telling lies. As I have posted before there is the Britnat pyramid of lies. At the top of the pyramid are the Britnats who tell the lies. The next layer are the Britnats who know they are being told lies but are happy for the lies to be told by the Britnat politicians/media as they are diehard No surrender Britnats. The final layer are the Britnats who believe the lies and have no idea they are lies.

      Upon independence we should state our case that we entered the union as equal partners then we should leave with an equal share of the assets/ debts. If they don’t agree to that then they should do what you suggest. Give us our money back. They won’t of course because Westminster is corrupt. A bunch of crooks.

      Westminster – a history of going around the world and stealing by use of force. Still doing it to Scotland.

    18. Luigi says:

      Well done Rev, you quickly dispatched with the nonsense and left him in the usual fall-back position that all British nationalists eventually adopt:

      (fingers in ears) “I’m not listening!”

      How they love to spout those cooked GERS figures. They don’t like it up em!. 🙂

    19. Harry mcaye says:

      It’s not for me to suggest how the Rev runs things, but this whole article would look great in the next Wee Blue Book, perhaps at the start of the chapter “How Can Scotland Afford to be Independent?”

    20. Cactus says:

      Rev explains…

      “And that, readers, is the reality of the “fiscal transfer”. Far from being a leech on UK finances, Scotland is still – even after a decade-long financial crisis, the PFI burden and with oil revenues close to zero due to spectacular UK mismanagement – nearly £30 billion in the black. We’d be one of the most economically healthy nations on the face of the planet.”

      And being generous to the Unionists, THAT figure should be wayyy more.

      Scottish Labour are the ones ‘in the RED’ (in more ways than one.)

      Give iScotland a leg up…

      FREE our potential.

    21. admiral says:

      Cubby says:
      10 February, 2019 at 12:38 pm
      Robert Louis @11.53pm
      I believe people like Sweeney know fine well they are telling lies.

      Of course they do!

      Either that or they are so exceptionally intellectually challenged that they shouldn’t be allowed out without a responsible adult as chaperone, far less be in a position to legislate over the rest of us.

    22. Clootie says:

      Brexit,Cross rail, Westminster refurbishment, rail subsidies for the South of England, The M25, London sewers, Trident and replacement, Aircraft Carriers and planes, Astute Class nuclear submarines, Nuclear Power, HS2, The House of Lords, The Scottish Office ( or UK Gov in Scotland), Foreign Wars, The Royal Family etc etc……what else would we do with our money….and don’t suggest developing a fair society…Labour wants to ensure the guy in Glasgow is just as miserable as the guy in Liverpool. That the Glasgow Foodbanks are just as busy as those in Machester even if that means the wealthy in the South of England getting richer.

      By Paul Sweeney’s logic all the countries of the Empire should have remained and continued to send their wealth to London.. Don’t those Dublin, Adelaide, Darwin, Toronto workers care about Liverpool.

    23. Ian says:

      Not too complicated a subject as some suggest and nothing that a chart or two won’t make crystal clear.

      See chart on page 14 – Tax Revenue per Person:Scotland & UK

    24. There are only one of two explanations ; either Paul Sweeney, champion of the Govan shipworkers (oh,but wait..) is either pig shit thick, or he is a lying Brit Nat Socialist bampot.
      Since his sel penned Wiki entry describes him as traeding the well worn Red Tory Path to WM riches, Uni, councillor, firebrand, la de la, then we are to assume that he has an intellect and he knows fine well that Scotland is one of the resource rich leaders on the entire globe.
      So we come to the conclusion in the Collatin wigwam that he is a lying Brit Nat Socialist, a ‘Brazi’.
      How can one so young declare that his country of birth is shite?
      Easy, just stuff loads of money into his bank account.
      He’ll be over in Rosyth picketing on behalf the 150 men who lost their jobs because they believed his lies during Indyref 1?
      Great piece, Stu.
      As I say, no more Mr and Mrs Nice Guy.
      We smoke the lying bastards out at every opportunity from now on in.
      What a fool this chancer has made of himself.

    25. Breeks says:

      I don’t know why we get bogged down this. Time and time again. It reeks of playing the game where they set the agenda and we dutifully follow the same protocols. We “ought” to be making ready to man the barricades to stop Scotland being Brexited, not arguing the myopic semantics of fact versus propaganda.

      I also don’t know why I feel so grim and depressed when I compare Scotland’s anti-Brexit strategy to Ireland’s. I feel like standing in the doorway with a searchlight behind me, and asking “how did it come to this?”

      Mary Lou MacDonald’s words for Theresa May were a real tonic to hear. First smile I had on my face for a long time… Why on Earth Scotland’s politicians prefer this grey and lifeless mealy mouthed squabbling with intellectual pygmies to standing resolute and firm in defence of Scotland’s interests is just utterly depressing.

      My spidey senses are telling me people are starting to get deeply angry… and not just with Tory Brexiteers. If the SNP has any instincts, for the love of god they better start listening to them.

      Scotland will not be removed from Europe against it’s will. Again.
      Scotland will not be removed from Europe against it’s will. Louder….
      Scotland will not be removed from Europe against it’s will. Say it like you fkn mean it.

      Don’t worry. You only need to keep it up for 47 days, at the end of which we’ve either won, or all is lost.

    26. Jim Rabbitts says:

      Fundimundilly correct. Remember ? 🙂

    27. Craig P says:

      Breastplate, that Charles Inglis quote is a brilliant find! For the United States, read also Singapore, Malta… I wonder if they had the brass neck to also claim that India couldn’t manage on her own.

      It is the lack of vision amongst unionists for a prosperous future for Scotland that I find most depressing. Their only vision is of an eternal supplication for handouts from the capricious imperial purse in London… to even admit that Scotland could fare better destroys the primary argument of unionism and leaves only the stark naked fact of their British nationalism.

    28. Kennedy says:

      Another demolition job. Well done Rev.

    29. Artyhetty says:

      Very good article, have shared.

      If only Scotland could somehow get that information, those facts out to the people of Scotland who aren’t partial to ‘social media’ and who are told it’s all fake. The £billion flow south, are siphoned away, and fake Britnat media tells people it’s the other way around and have done for well, decades, centuries really.

      What a stitch up, when they kept invading Scotland to colonise the country, it just didn’t work, so, they donned their balaclavas and just said, sign on the dotted line, hee hee hee.

      Also, though it’s £millions not billions, what about the VAT the UK Britnat London government removes from our police and fire servives but they don’t do so in rUK. How can they get away with taxing Scotland’s emergency services but not taxing them in England, it’s absolutely criminal.

      Also, the ‘national grid’ the Britnat governmnet in London charge Scotland £millions to connect, but they actually pay south of England £millions to connect.

      Scotland, you are being ripped off, and have been for a very long time, at the same time the Britnats have kept you poor and begging, laughing all the way to the bank, ha ha ha!

      Oh and haven’t the Britnat gov just done a dirty on the floor and somehow managed to steal another few £billion, charging Scotland towards paying for tuition fees in England?

      The Britnats really are a canny lot are they not!!! ( not in the Geordie sense, where it means, nice).

    30. ScottieDog says:

      Good timing to put this in your diaries regarding scotlands economy..

      8/9th may

    31. Scottish Steve says:

      Well I’m sick and tired of Scotland’s fiscal transfer to the UK. I think it’s time for England, Wales and Northern Ireland to stand on their own two feet. Independence please.

    32. Ian says:

      As at 1.18pm, I’m not sure that link works. Try this –

      In a similar vein, it’d be good to clarify the position regarding exports and imports for Scotland & rUK. From what information is available, it looks like Scotland comes out well again, unlike the biggest part of the UK –

    33. Gordon McAuslane says:

      You can add to HS2, Crossrail, the London Sewers, and the repair of the House of Commons the £6 billion aircraft carriers with no aircraft, Trident which endangers the lives of all Scottish Citizens, the Olympic Village and associated stadia, extension of the British Library, the extension of the third runway at Heathrow, the Royal Ballet, the Royal Shakespeare Company, the Dome, and many other infrastructure projects, most of which Scots (and others in ‘the provinces’) will never get use of or access to. The money pouring into London for fat contracts with seemingly limitless budgets prime pumps the economy there feeding the multiplier effect which, if it stopped would end the gravy train.
      If Scotland just cut its share of the subsidy to all these and (other unending) projects, we would be quids in.

    34. Artyhetty says:

      Re, Harry Macaye@12.48

      I had thought that as well re a wee blue book. Last time I had several freinds and neighbours who had the wbb, they read it and still said, ‘we can’t afford it’. Nope even with actual figures and facts in front of them, Scotland is still ‘too poor’, it’s in their DNA.

      Also had friends who definitely were of the mindset that we would be being very selfish to ‘seperate’, in 2014. I guess at least they knew it would be disastrous for rUK and that their own country was very capable of thriving without the rUK. Someone I knew said, ‘We want to give the UK one more chance’.

      Well, look at what the ‘UK’ did, they s**t on the floor didn’t they. Fabulous.

    35. yesindyref2 says:

      Just read an interesting analogy on Alyn Smith’s article in the Herald, so here’s another. We have roads that have potholes, and we can spend all our money filling them, while spending some dualling the A9 and such like.

      Or we can invest in the new MacAggtarmetal road tech, which actually blends with existing road surfaces though with a higher proportion of tar or aggregate depending on the existing surface.

      The new machines which, in bulk, can be bought for £100,000 each do the whole job, lay the mix from the hopper, spread it equally and melt, yes melt, the road to a depth of a foot using an exotic microwave range to 120 degrees centigrade, then roll it out blast it with blowers at the rear end to cool it, and move on slowly at 1 mph.

      Potholes are then fully filled with this device, and new roads can also be laid. The problem is to make it work, an investment of £50 billion is needed.

      Now, since long-term this saves a massive amount of money while making the whole road system as near 100% as possible, it’s economically very sound as long as you can borrow that money, which also provides jobs and an export industry to boot.

      So what do you do, stick with the UK and shove in more and more straight tarmac of aggregate, for which you’re charged a share of the UK interest payments on a £1.7 trillion debt? Or do you get out of dodge and invest in a road system fit for the 22nd century? Creating the “money” needed via your own currency of course, but that’s another story.

    36. Confused says:

      Good stuff, and yet the tip of the iceberg.

      For the next campaign, we need to concentrate on MONEY MONEY MONEY
      – i.e. the greatest RIPOFF of all time, plus

      need to smash it into peoples skulls – money gets thru to people – all the airy fairy stuff evaporates – even for apparently hard unionists; make it real, talk about single track roads, pathetic underground railways …

      BUT economics and accountancy is very hard to argue to people – the man in the street is slightly literate, but largely innumerate

      whitabout COLIN DUNNS infographics – he’s great – and he has a lot of really good ones already
      – a series of graphics, which can be used standalone, or in sequence, in a cartoon book, to build a structured argument

      I watch a lot of youtube vids with Max Keiser, Steven Keen, Michael Hudson, Richard Werner – theres the guys here who talk about MMT – then theres historical ideas from Halmar Schacht, Liszt, others … point is, the options we have are immense, economics is not science, it is dogma, a religion, a choice … but this stuff is far too abstract for the general public

      – you need to prove parity or slight improvement in the short term; consider venezuela – the sabotage in that country was immense, e.g. sending food trucks to colombia to create shortages and skyrocketing prices – then the bank of england have stolen their fucking gold. Anything you do has to prevent any such measures, which means in the short term, 5 years, you have to proceed very carefully and incrementally.

    37. Proud Cybernat says:

      Perhaps, by now, the actual truth of Scotland’s incredible wealth and that it is the UK that is fleecing Scotland, will finally begin to penetrate the heads of the GERS-deluded BritNats?

      Or maybe no’:

      Well, it was a lovely thought while it lasted.

    38. panda paws says:

      Well yes of course Scotland has been subsidising the rUK for years. And even if folk like Sweeney don’t know it you’d better believe that anything who has seen the real “books” knows it too.

      The late John Jappy went to the Treasury in the 1960s convinced England was subsidising Scotland and seeing the real figures realised the subsidy was the other way. This was before a single drop of oil was pumped.

      The real figures used to be published until 1919 and guess what – yip a fraction of Scotland’s wealth was being spent in Scotland.

      It makes me weep especially given how desperately poor many of the people were in my lifetime and indeed before. God we need to grow a pair and get out of dodge.

    39. yesindyref2 says:

      I guess the analogy needs a bit of work, I should have explained that the new surface has a lifetime of 50 years, needs a quick run up with the combo every 5 years, is very hard-wearing as well as excellent grip and water removal properties, and is powered via internal batters plus beamed power from generators running parallel or in front.

      You’ve got to feel sorry for England, that’s another match on the poor ITV commentary, and they don’t even get Brian Moore to give some very good insights into what goes on unseen in the scrum.

    40. Proud Cybernat says:

      Will Liverpool give a flying fuck about Scotland when the shop shelves are empty post Brexit and the delivery truck from Dover is due to arrive in Liverpool before it gets anywhere near Scotland?

      Well, will they?

    41. Brian Powell says:

      The question then is, why hasn’t the Scottish Government highlighted this in huge letters?

    42. Contrary says:

      This is really good stuff – clearly sets out the circular non-sense arguments about debts, too poor, a drain on the uk, etc – and gives everyone a reminder of the endless bile that is going to need to be repeatedly countered in the near future. The thing is, people only selectively use certain parts of Scotland’s messy association with the uk to try and justify their already held beliefs – countering their reasoning with actual facts only goes so far, as they will keep saying it ad nauseum to fulfill the need they have. How to say to people, their belief in staying part of the Union has only emotional value to them, no practical value and will harm our society as a whole; how to say to people that they are self-deluding, without undermining the importance of opinion for everyone; how to make those people that cherry pick convenient facts for their own view that they needn’t bother, to just accept it is just a feeling with no substance. Ah, I’m in a contemplative mood.

      Anyway, Wings on Twitter, I see, is asking for suggestions on questions for a new opinion poll. I am not on Twitter so I will throw my suggestions into the wind here, maybe someone will pick up something from them to refine:

      1. As a rough estimate, by how much do you believe your political opinion is formed by the MSM and other news outlets? 0%, 10%, … 100%. (A bit of a trick question, but can demonstrate if people are actually aware of how they are influenced)

      2. How much do you believe what you are told by (a) politicians (not much, some, a lot, everything) (b) the BBC news (zero, not much etc)

      3. Do you think context – background information – should be given a higher priority in news reporting? (Yes no)

      4. Do you think there should be more transparency in reporting of (a) politics (b) policing (c) security services (d) environmental protection (e) MoD (f) nuclear power & other large government projects (yes no)

      5. Do you think that the vote to leave the EU was brought about by (a) the will of the people (b) right-wing political activists (c) the uk government wanting to avoid new transparency laws brought in by the EU this year to maintain its tax havens (d) a US-UK conspiracy to destabilise the EU and the euro to maintain the power and the value of the (petro)dollar (e) other reasons.

      6. Have you heard of the Green New Deal? (Yes no) if yes, do you understand it is an economic policy? (Yes no) if yes, do you think it is (a) a good one or (b) a bad one? Do you believe an independent Scotland should align itself to a progressive economic policy such as this? (Yes no)

      7. Do you think that the two-party FPTP political system has the effect of polarising opinions into only two, and stifles debate and cooperation? (Yes no)

      8. Do you believe that the current uk government has your best interests at heart? (Yes no)

      9. Do you think that the best method of gauging public opinion on major changes to a countries policies and laws is through (a) consultation (b) referendum (c) opinion polls (d) not required.

      10. In the event of Scotland voting for independence, during the negotiating period, do you think that (a) major decisions should have options for the Scottish people to decide on (e.g. Keep, demand removal of, rent out: trident) (b) politicians, chosen by the current proportional make up of the Scottish Parliament should be wholly responsible for all negotiations and final decisions (c) a negotiating team should be chosen and voted on by the public, and decisions consulted on fully (d) internal and external politics should be clearly split; negotiations with the rUK separate and ongoing while internal political rearrangement, establishment of national bank, tax revenue body, and other normally reserved institutions are put in place (e) stay on the current system until all negotiations are complete, only instituting new arrangements after a Scottish general election on final dissolution of the Union.

      Gosh, I had more question than I thought, but then I AM fascinated by other people’s opinions.

    43. Essexexile says:

      I’m a bit perplexed at NS decision to embark on her recent tour of North America at what is, in every sense, an extremely finely balanced moment for Scotland.
      I guess she was showing that if the UK won’t listen then the rest of the world will but would’ve been better to invite people to Scotland rather than leaving the country. This announcement of her indy intentions needs to come asap. It’s clear Scotland is going over the cliff unless something fundamental changes very soon.

    44. yesindyref2 says:

      Oh God, Sir Clive whatsit is one of the most annoying people on TV, even including the Kardashians my wife watches.

    45. Colin Alexander says:


      SNP on bended knee
      begged the Lords for democracee.

      Oh you fools, for believing in Sewel,
      We’re your Colonial Masters, appointed to rule.
      We have no need for democracee.

      Go back home to our colony. Dream your dreams that you’ll be free
      through a Yes vote that will give give you libertee.

      What a tool is the Scottish fool, who doesn’t know Scotland already has her sovereigntee.
      But it’s bought and sold for devolution gold and a position of power for the SNP.

    46. Giving Goose says:

      And the fiscal truth, grudgingly acknowledged by Paul Sweeney, that Scotland is effectively trapped in an imposed state of poverty, proves beyond doubt that Unionism is a belief system and NOT a solution for social issues.

      Unionist belief is a corrosive Identity akin to a cult. Sweeney is NOT Scottish. He is British!

    47. Iain mhor says:

      Ashcroft ‘.. a geographic share of oil revenues’
      Yes. So nice we got a share. Or was the bulk of it really assigned to Scotland in his figures and I’m just too cynical.
      Curious about that share too? – As if by magic:

    48. robbo says:

      Proud Cybernat says:
      10 February, 2019 at 2:17 pm
      Perhaps, by now, the actual

      Well he’s pretty irrelevant ,he died in 2017

    49. geeo says:

      Coco on the crack-pipe again…!!

      Tomorrow he will be indy’s biggest cheerleader.

      Meth is a helluva drug huh ?

    50. Liz g says:

      Re the survey questions.
      1. Do you think the Current Treaty between Scotland and England is serving Scotland.
      A. Yes
      B. No
      Should Scotland .
      A.Have straight Yes No referendum to scrap the Treaty.
      B. Suspend the Treaty of Union and then vote on keeping it or not.
      C.End the Current Treaty and vote on negotiating a new a new more suitable one.

    51. Iain mhor says:

      I thought the graphic in the link I posted was familiar, so rooting around my archives, I found this from 2013 if anyone is interested.
      Similar conclusions to the OP re: geographic share of oil revenues and Scottish tax contributions.

    52. Colin Dunn says:

      It’s worth reading the continuation of ashcroft’s article from the bit directly after your screen shot . .

      “So, I hear some supporters of Scottish independence say “well that proves, Scotland can pay its way better than the rest of UK and so would do better if independent.”

      But this would be an incorrect interpretation of these data.”

      Then proceeds to state that . .

      – If we borrowed our debt interest rates would be higher than UKs. Bollocks. Other small countries get much better rates than UK)

      – We’ve had the ‘benefit’ of the oil fund thanks to the stability of the UK, and couldn’t have had that without it. Norway anyone?

    53. Cubby says:

      Giving Goose@ 2.52pm

      They dwell among us – THE BRITISH.

    54. Pentlander says:

      Here is Scotland’s contribution from 1950’s. Looks like we
      were contributing loads back then too. Don’t suppose we will
      be beating Denmark and Norway now.
      Reference : Scotland’s Scrap of Paper (Treaty of Union)
      Page 41 “ Contribution of Scotland to the Exchequer
      For some years an annual return was published by the Government. Since the year 1921 this publication has been discontinued, in spite of the protests by Scottish representatives. The totals for the year 1920-21 were as follows:
      Revenue contributed by Scotland £119,753,000
      Expenditure on Scottish Services 33,096,000
      Balance retained in London for “Imperial Services” 86,657,000
      Further official figures of Scotland’s contribution to the Exchequer are given in the White Paper,
      “Revenue and Expenditure (England and Wales and Scotland), 1952/53
      (Cmd. 9501). This gives a total revenue from Scotland of £409,694,000,
      Which may be compared, for example, with Denmark’s revenue
      For the same period of £130,000,000 and Norway’s revenue of
      £183 millions (year to 30/6/52) thus Scotland’s revenue exceeded
      By not far short of £100,000,000 the combined revenues of Norway and Denmark
      (whose combined population is 7,787,500 to Scotland’s 5,095,969),
      And it is not unreasonable to ask whether she obtains benefits from this vast outlay.”

    55. Republicofscotland says:

      Is it any wonder then that Westminster is desperate to hold onto Scotland by hook or by crook.

      The cash cow (Scotland) must leave this union as soon as possible.

    56. Cubby says:

      Colin Dunn@3.23pm

      What of course he will not point out is why would any country want to stay in a union where the larger country rips you off, deliberately keeps you poor relative to your revenues, controls all the media to tell you that you are rubbish and sets up democracy so that you have no real say in matters.

      The fact that Scotland discovered oil/gas is just a bonus for Westminster. They have been ripping off Scotland long before oil/gas and will continue to do so until Westminster is stopped.

    57. Referendum1707 says:

      Artyhetty 2.02

      With neighbours and “friends” like yours….

    58. Contrary says:

      RE: opinion poll questions, further to my suggestions, I think the answer ‘don’t know’ should not be used, see,s like lazy polling to me, and we all know tha Don’t Know has a good chance of being our next PM, so let’s leave them out of it. Alternatives for yes/no and,,, could be:

      – Other
      – I don’t understand
      – no opinion either way
      – I do not know enough about the subject to answer

      Would stop people clicking ‘don’t know’ automatically when faced with a difficult question, I reckon.

    59. yesindyref2 says:

      Well, if England keep that up it’s hard not seeing them get the grand slam. In fairness France didn’t turn up till nearly 10 minutes in. But if Scotland can eliminate the handling errors and keep the line speed up not giving England their head, who knows, a surprise result in 3 weeks time. First beat France in 2 weeks! In France.

    60. galamcennalath says:

      You know, I’m sure the economic case for a prosperous Independent Scotland is sound, but to be honest I’m not overly concerned. Independence for me is about far more important issues.

      I want to live in a democracy and I want to leave that legacy to the generations to come. I want to see a political culture where lying and deceiving in public office are not acceptable. I want a country where people matter, not the bank balances of the rich. I want a fair country where debacles like the Windrush and Waspi scandals aren’t tolerated. I want a country which looks out into the world and plays a part is peace making and fighting the real threats to the planet. I want to live in a country which is respected for the good it does, not a pariah state.

      iScotland can do much better by its people and for the world.

      If that makes me personally poorer because I have to pay more tax, then it’s a price well forth paying!

      To paraphrase, BritNats know the price of everything but the value of nothing.

    61. yesindyref2 says:

      That should be 5 weeks time – last match of the 6 nations.

    62. Iain mhor says:

      Oh is there a survey to be done?
      I’d just like questions on ‘Independence’ replaced with ‘Government’ and ‘Parliament’ to satisfy a theory.
      Everything I see appears to indicate the majority of Scots, of all political persuasions, back their government at Holyrood. Though they are inclined to look to a Parliamentary Union. I’d like to find out how true that is and if.people can make a distinction between a “Parliament” & a “Government”

      Do you think the the people of Scotland should continue to have their own Parliament
      Do you think the people of Scotland should continue to have their own Government
      Do you think that Scotland’s Government should have more or fewer powers.
      Do you think that Scotland’s Parliament should have more or fewer powers.

      Where “Independence” may have pejoratuve connotations, perhaps framing the issue through ‘decision making’ powers might yield more positive results.

    63. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      I note Paul Sweeny is going with the tried and tested “Tavish Scott Gambit”

      Growing a beard as a disguise between elections so folk don’t realise it is the same lying wee toerag come election time.


    64. Golfnut says:

      Can anyone tell me what oil fund Ashcroft is talking about,is it the one stashed away in in tax havens, Scotland sure as hell hasn’t seen a brass farthing of it.

    65. Effijy says:

      Sweeney’s job in Westminsters Champagne Socialist Labour
      Depends on him not understanding these figures.

      The Rev threatens his prospects of filling his pockets
      And a seat the House of Lords when he needs no more.

      Now he sees the undeniable truth about Scotland’s economy
      Being ripped off he is happy to continue with the poor getting
      Poorer, the Disabled attacked and Millions using food banks.

      Red Tory Con Man

    66. robert alexander harrison says:

      Read that twitter feed Paul sweeney had no come back typical anti scot when defeated shows you silenced him good on twitter stu no wonder they need the media to peddle there pish because doing it themselves and they instantly lose.

    67. Reluctant Nationalist says:

      OT – I see The National is pretending there’s some credit to Venezuela’s opposition drama, with the latest letter. Whateverthehell is going on there presently (EU and US sanctions included), it’s pretty unsporting the way the media hasn’t given much lip-service to the spiteful, greedy decades-long attack on their independence by those who want access to their oil. It’s quite helpful to understand that there are those who will stop at nothing to get it.

      Watch the 2003 documentary ‘The Revolution will not be Televised’ (aka: Chavez: Inside the Coup).

    68. yesindyref2 says:

      One of the most boring second halves. England had their points, bonus point, and closed the game down, even more so when they brought Dan Cole on. But for me it’s a weakness, that could be exploited.

    69. wull2 says:

      Now I am confused, 6 nations Rugby, so we are not a region .

    70. velofello says:

      Mr Sweeney with his degree in Economics(?) really should/will know what the Rev has detailed here. The nub is that it is easier to secure nomination as a councillor, MSP, MP with either Labour or the Tories than the populous SNP. And so career choice, join ScotLabour spout Labour values comrade, and get selected as a candidate. And in due course, Leonard is an easy target to dislodge.

    71. jezza says:

      Who gives a flyin fuck about England’s rugby team?

      Come to think of it, who gives a flyin fuck about England?

      A quick answer for all smarmy English bastards who insist on telling us how they subsidise us, just tell them of all those Billions they will save when we vote to become an independent nation.

    72. Contrary says:

      Another possible opinion poll question:

      11. Would you consider a hard border between Scotland and England if it was done tastefully, providing housing, shops, hotels, artwork, creating a go-to tourist destination with simple cross-border travel arrangements to be: (a) desirable (b) a good idea (c) possible (d) undesirable (e) a stupid idea

    73. HandandShrimp says:

      The Unionist mantra, Scotland too wee, too poor…but if she is isn’t then it would be selfish to be independent. No winning with that mentality because it is Unionist or die…no argument to the contrary is actually engaged with.

    74. robertknight says:

      I’m coming to the conclusion that Yoon politicians in Scotland, and their pals in the MSM, have been implanted with a type of Dark Skies alien ganglion which controls their brain.

      It’d certainly go a long way to explaining their constant distortion of reality.

    75. ben madigan says:

      o/T – just to raise a little smile at the end of another Sunday in the UK

    76. Robert Louis says:

      I’d suggest that for the forthcoming (we assume before brexit day) indyref, the entire premise of independence finance should revolve around literally demanding back the money that Scots have paid to England for nothing.

      The starting point should not meekly be, that we will be fine by ourselves, but literally a demand for money back, and for ALL the oil which has been stolen.

      Put them on the defensive. Make them justify their numbers, and point out the flaws.

      The other thing that should be fone is literally listing ALL the breeches of the treaty of union by England, and how they have denied Scottish democracy, over and over again. It should be a formal list.

      Take the fight to them. Make them defend the union, rather than us having to justify independence.

    77. TheItalianJob says:

      @HandandShrimp at 5.46pm

      Exactly. Just like the former Labour MP for Hamilton Jim Hood who stood up in Westminster Parliament in 2014 during Indy2014 debate and stated.

    78. yesindyref2 says:

      Great idea!

      So while some reactive Indy supporter thinks he or she is getting one over someone who doesn’t even get a vote in Indy Ref 2 and therefore isn’t worth the effort, undecided voters look on with amazement and think “it must be true, the alleged Indy supporter said so, so it’s a NO from me”.

      Which isn’t true at all as this article points out in part, and historically isn’t at all true, as for many many years Scotland subsidised the rest of the UK by running even by GERS and its predecessors, a lower deficit than the rest of the UK.

      I wonder why the poster suggested a losing strategey?

    79. TheItalianJob says:

      In February 2014, Jim Hood MP for Lanark and Hamilton East outlined his opposition to Scottish independence in a commons debate, stating “Even if the SNP was right and there was a grand, great thing at the end of the rainbow for the SNP and its debate for independence, I would still be against it. If the Scottish people are going to be better off economically and so on, I would still be against breaking away from the Union”.

    80. yesindyref2 says:

      I could understand people wanting to be part of a bigger thing if the Union was honest, “Yes, Scotland has susbidised the rest of the UK for many years, it’s being part of a strong union which helps those in need”.

      But many Unionists think we are subsidised and go on supporting the Union with their hands hanging, and begging bowl out, no dignity. Ones like K**** H****. A scrounger in his own mind. Whereas the historical reality is that it’s been the other way around.

    81. Petra says:

      Another great article with Stu bursting the ”Scotland too poor” myth. Too bad though that he’s highlighted that the ”too stupid” part of the myth still applies to some Scots, IF that is the underlying cause of Paul Sweeney’s presbyopic viewpoint.


      @ Breeks says at 1:26 pm …. ”I don’t know why we get bogged down with this. Time and time again. It reeks of playing the game where they set the agenda and we dutifully follow the same protocols. We “ought” to be making ready to man the barricades to stop Scotland being Brexited, not arguing the myopic semantics of fact versus propaganda.”…

      Well maybe this article has got something to do with the ”fact” that we have to expose the ”propaganda” lies to ensure that we get the majority of sovereign Scots, that we require, to achieve Independence. We may be opening the eyes of newcomers on here or using this information to convert others in the real world. No point on manning barricades if most of the people on our side of the barricade still want to be on the other side, don’t you think?


      More for newbies to the site.

      ‘The McCrone Report.’


      ‘The Stolen Seas.’


      Watch Andrew Marr, establishment lackey, shutting Cameron up.

    82. shiregirl says:

      Off post, but utterly cringing…
      Watching Springwatch where they are exploring a thing called
      ‘Coorie’ (!) ….as told by someone from Essex who now lives in the Scotland. This, apparently is the new ‘hygge’… w.t.f?? Making it sound like they have invented the word.
      They retreated to a bothy where, hey, a mitchelin star chef pops up and makes Cullen Skink. It’s from moraaay, apparently. As someone from Cullen, it’s utterly cringy.
      I’ve turned off and poured a drink.

    83. Capella says:

      @ Gordon McAuslane – you could add to the list the Jubilee line, the Channel Tunnel and HS1.

    84. schrodingers cat says:

      unacceptable jeeza, will be reported


      any who wish their names added to my complaint, let me know

    85. Effijy says:

      Great work yet again by the Rev.
      Why has no SNP representative read out these FACTS on
      TV or Radio, or even in Parliament?

      Why are these facts not sent to all media outlets in the UK
      With a request for them to confirm that all documents and figures
      Are accurate and enquire why this information of the greatest of
      Importance has never been presented to the citizens of this country?

      I think we are due to have our most important fundraiser ever!
      We need this in our latest Wee Wings Book on the first page and
      and these pages must then be spread across the land by everyone who believes in
      Truth, Justice, Democracy and Scotland.

      How about SNP taking a full page on the main newspapers, TV and Radio adverts
      To sumerise these Facts. Scotland subsidises England and have done so for generations.

      Time to stop the lies of a corrupt Westminster who refuse to give Scotland a voice,
      Who insult us at every turn and who are determined to drag Scotland over an economic
      Cliff to ensure UK rich can continue to hide their ilgotten gains and avoid tax.

    86. Luigi says:

      TheItalianJob says:
      10 February, 2019 at 6:11 pm
      In February 2014, Jim Hood MP for Lanark and Hamilton East outlined his opposition to Scottish independence in a commons debate, stating “Even if the SNP was right and there was a grand, great thing at the end of the rainbow for the SNP and its debate for independence, I would still be against it. If the Scottish people are going to be better off economically and so on, I would still be against breaking away from the Union”.

      Aah. The BritNat mindset. Willing to go down with the ship. Now, ask yourselves – If the BritNat belief system is so strong in some people, do you think that even intellectuals, economists, politicians and reporters suffering this condition would flinch from telling deliberate fibs if they thought their precious union was under threat? Truth, honour and sincerity are often the first casualties IMO.

    87. geeo says:

      @shrodingers cat

      He was already on a warning for abuse i reported over 2 days.

    88. Petra says:


      Nana thanks for the really informative links that you posted on the last thread.

      The Mark McNaught tweet re. Mentorn Media is well worth considering. This is the crowd that produces Question Time (using Scot’s allocation of money) with dodgy right-winger Alison Fuller-Pedley calling the shots, such as selecting the members of the audience. Now we see that this same company have been given the contract to run the new, forthcoming, Scottish BBC news programme. Seemingly one of the first programmes that they are going to broadcast this month is in two-parts on IndyRef1. Timely or what? I also wonder if O O Billy Mitchell and mates will feature in that? Or will they have edited him out now?


      Dr. Mark McNaught:- ”Did some digging and found it. Mentorn Media produced the disastrous bbcqt the other night, and will be producing ‘The 9’ “news” program starting soon. Was the contract even put up for tender in Scotland? Absolutely scandalous.


      Dr. Mark McNaught:- Mentorn is a subsidiary of ‘Tinopolis’, which is, what else, a private equity fund.


      Dr. Mark McNaught:- ”In turn, Tinopolis is a subsidiary of Vitruvian Partners, an even larger private equity/hedge fund firm. Wow, amazing to see how Billy the Bigot is brought to you by the dark-money global oligarchy. Industrial-scale BBC corruption.”


      ”Nicolai Gentchev is Director of Current Affairs for Mentorn Media ….

      Previously he was Editor of Question Time for five-and-a-half years. During this time he also edited the EU Referendum specials for BBC One, BBC Scotland’s ‘Referendum Debates’ series in 2014” …..

    89. ScottieDog says:

      It’s interesting, they always talk about financial flows (deficit) and never stock (debt).

      Of the approx £1.8 trillion national debt (really national savings because the bonds are held by investors, pensions etc) around £1 trillion was digging the city out of the hole it dug and refurnishing the huge salaries and bonuses received by the spivs.

      Then came the claim that the big tax revenues coming from said spivs was infact ‘funding’ the government and puting London into surplus..

      THAT is why they never talk about historical debt.

      Had London not been bailed out it would be languishing, the govt automatic stabilisers kicking in and paying welfare to the former pin stripe brigade – and running a deficit today.

      At the aggregate level spending IS income.

    90. TheItalianJob says:

      @ Luigi at 6.29pm

      Jim Hood was a diehard Unionist who made a good career and salary as an MP. Drove fancy cars etc. Don’t know if he did a great deal for his constituency and his area but was more concerned with “his precious Union” and himself rather that the people of Scotland and who he was meant to be representing.

      Typical ScotLabour.

    91. Pete Barton says:

      Watched the Eng France game –

      Where has the scintillating flowing exciting French game gone?

      I tuned in, heart sank.

      OK, so Scotland made mistakes,we didn’t win..

      But it was exciting!

      O’mahony should be cited for his cynical downing of Hogg, that didn’t need to happen.

      There may have been some late tackling on Sexton, may have been missed.

      I really wish I hadn’t heard Lawrence Dallaglio state that England’s performance was ‘Imperious’

      It was superb, but can we forget about the Empire and the second world war, pulleeze!

      I’d like to live in a free democratic modern state.

      With a truly scottish and international media outlook.

      Any takers?

    92. Petra says:

      Oh well my O/T comment ”is awaiting moderation.” Too many links? I’ll try splitting it up.

      Nana thanks for the really informative links that you posted on the last thread.

      The Mark McNaught tweet re. Mentorn Media is well worth considering. This is the crowd that produces Question Time (using Scot’s allocation of money) with dodgy right-winger Alison Fuller-Pedley calling the shots, such as selecting the members of the audience. Now we see that this same company have been given the contract to run the new, forthcoming, Scottish BBC news programme. Seemingly one of the first programmes that they are going to broadcast this month is in two-parts on IndyRef1. Timely or what? I also wonder if O O Billy Mitchell and mates will feature in that? Or will they have edited him out now?


      Dr. Mark McNaught:- ”Did some digging and found it. Mentorn Media produced the disastrous bbcqt the other night, and will be producing ‘The 9’ “news” program starting soon. Was the contract even put up for tender in Scotland? Absolutely scandalous.


      Dr. Mark McNaught:- Mentorn is a subsidiary of ‘Tinopolis’, which is, what else, a private equity fund.

    93. Petra says:

      Dr. Mark McNaught:- ”In turn, Tinopolis is a subsidiary of Vitruvian Partners, an even larger private equity/hedge fund firm. Wow, amazing to see how Billy the Bigot is brought to you by the dark-money global oligarchy. Industrial-scale BBC corruption.”


      ”Nicolai Gentchev is Director of Current Affairs for Mentorn Media ….

      Previously he was Editor of Question Time for five-and-a-half years. During this time he also edited the EU Referendum specials for BBC One, BBC Scotland’s ‘Referendum Debates’ series in 2014” …..

    94. Fireproofjim says:

      There is no U.K. oil fund. Never has been. Every penny of the oil revenues was treated as normal tax income and not as a once in a lifetime bonus to be invested for the future.
      As a result it was all spent as fast as it came in but anyone who was not rich would have noticed. The bulk of it was used by the Tory government to reduce the top rate of income tax from 60% to 40%., so that someone on an income of £100,000 would have had his post-tax income increased by £20,000 per annum.
      Not for you plebs though.
      To compound their greed they stole our National oil company.
      Britoil which had its own oilfields (and a share in any others in which it wished to participate) was sold to their pals in BP for a knock down price.
      In every way possible they wasted a wonderful asset by greed and shortsightedness.

    95. Nana says:


      Share this thread

      So a wee bird has dropped into my inbox what a major newspaper has described as a report from HM Treasury.

    96. Pete Barton says:

      Sorry peeps,have yet to learn archiving techniques.

      This man knew from previous experience what would happen to Norway’s oil once big money got its grubby hands on it.

      Perhaps he had seen the results in Iraq previously?

      John Jappy’s website is still kept going by those who want him remembered.

      Amazing research Petra.


    97. yesindyref2 says:

      I quote economic multiplier, and from a report by Craig Dalzell on defence, use a figure of 0.6 basically as it’s convenient and a good figure.

      But basically if you spend a £billion in your own economy, the secondary, tertiary and all other spending is in the economy, with home-produced goods and resources and people even going on holiday in the economy eating home-produced food, and buying home-produced white goods from native resources, the actual cost of that spending is precisely £0.

      That’s if I have it right 🙂

    98. TheItalianJob says:

      @Fireproofjim at 7.15pm

      Aye Fpj. I remember it well the sell off by Margaret Thatcher of the BritOil Government held “Golden share” to BP.

      Resulted in the closure of the BritOil company HQ in Glasgow and the loss of thousands of well paid Scottish jobs.

      BritOil had many oil fields including the massive West of Shetland Clair field now being produced by none other than BP.

      As you state total sell off of Scotland’s oil wealth with absolutely nothing put back into the Scottish economy.

    99. Golfnut says:


      Yes, thanks I did know that, it was a rhetorical question. However anybody reading his assessment may not actually be aware his mention of an oil fund was a direct lie. The other point that caught my eye was his assumption that Westminster after Independence might not allow Scotland to keep the oil. The sheer arrogance of this character is breathtaking.
      Firstly, Scotland’s ends the union when it votes to return all executive powers to Scotland’s Parliament, Westminster, even its recognised as a legal entity once the union is dissolved has no say on Scotland’s oil. A country’s borders are defined by legal jurisdiction, the 1746 Acts of Wales and Berwick are still in force, and even if they weren’t, the International courts defined that the Lockerbie bomber was to be tried under Scots law as the crime was committed in Scottish airspace.

    100. yesindyref2 says:

      Yes, the biomedical. No casualties apparently.

    101. ScottieDog says:


      Yes that makes sense. The national finances are not like a household. My income and expenditure re are independent. At the aggregate level as you imply – one persons spending becomes another’s income. Spending and income are inextricably linked.

      In 2007/8 there was a period of the U.K. running 10% deficits in response to the Tory and new labour lack financial regulation. They get forgotten about though.

      The unionists also like to use the argument that we will be liable for our share of the national debt post Indy – in sterling. This however is rubbish – if we decide to ‘pay that back’ then it can be redenominated legally into the new currency (lex Monetae)

    102. yesindyref2 says:

      The unionists of course would like us to take our per capita share, rather than a historical debt. I’d say we need KPMG appointed pronto with virtaully a blank cheque book.

      I’ve been thinking about one thing, and that is that as well as creating currency, there needs to be a mechanism to recall and destroy, or redenominate our “surplus” currency (buy other currencies, gold, silver, rare earth metals, whatever) if the value of the currency starts dropping. Better if that was anticipated as the price would be higher and buy more foreign currency or valuables 🙂

      That’s as well of course as building up our own oil reserves (extracted), something I think Australia was looking at recently.

    103. Reluctant Nationalist says:

      Very good stuff, Petra.

    104. Liz g says:

      Shrodingers Cat @ 6.26
      If it’s not too late you can add my name to your complaint.
      I’ve little time for bigotry against the English.
      It’s just so not the point,our Independence is not a thing to do with them..

    105. Tinto Chiel says:

      @Nana: Jolyon Maugham’s projections are pretty terrifying and, as you say, need to be shared widely.

      Re Jimmy Hood: my abiding memory of him in 2014 was when his sad wee BLiS_____D team at my town’s Top Cross told local pensioners that “they” (?) would be coming for their pension books if there was a Yes vote. Trying to counter this utter lie with the DWP statement we had to hand which said that pensions would still be paid after independence had limited effect, unfortunately. He was the local MP, after all.

      He liked showing students from local schools around the HoC, which he clearly loved, the wee sowill, but the time an ex-colleague was down there with a party of senior students, Jimmy seemed more animated by the delivery of his new Jag. The Young ‘Uns spotted the contradiction of a Labour MP drooling over a new luxury car pretty quickly.

      The phrase “Low Flying Jimmy” seems to have been coined for one such as he, loyal to the core to an Establishment which despised him.

      Mr Sweeney is just a younger version in a long line of such sell-outs. They must know the score but choose to misrepresent Scotland’s economic and fiscal position, to our country’s detriment.

      There is a name for such types.

    106. Rock says:

      jezza says:
      10 February, 2019 at 5:42 pm

      “A quick answer for all smarmy English bastards who insist on telling us how they subsidise us, just tell them of all those Billions they will save when we vote to become an independent nation.”

      That is a very good question SNP politicians could ask their torturers from the unionist media:

      Unionist “journalist”: But isn’t Scotland subsidised by England?

      SNP politician: How much money would England save to use on English schools and hospitals if Scotland was out of the union?

    107. Bob Mack says:

      @Nan a,

      That is a very,very,sobering read Nana. Jo Maugham has obviously been sent a copy of that confidential report by a mole ..

      If this is accurate they effectively are saying that over the space of a few months the UK economy would be so dire, that almost automatically things like the NHS would be unsustainable.

      This should be spread far and wide like the Rev’s piece above.

    108. yesindyref2 says:

      Just while it’s on my mind, the oil storage in the likes of Australia would be refined I think, ready reserves in case of crisis, oil and petroleum, including diesel. And gas.

      I’d like to see Scotland have limited amounts of ready refined, but mostly stored in crude form if that’s easily storable, so as to keep our refinery(ies) going in case of a downturn globally. It’d need versatile storage, crude ==> refined at need.

      I’m guessing the best way to do this would be a state oil company, working at full production regardless of external demand.

    109. Capella says:

      @ Shrodingers cat 6.26 – I have already alerted Stu about a post on a previous thread by that character which was a direct threat IMO. So you can include me.

    110. ScottieDog says:

      If I’m understanding you corecfly, well the currency is recalled (or destroyed) via taxation. As currency issuer you have to issue currency into existence before it can be returned in taxation. Folk never think about it this way but it’s obvious once you actually give it some thought. (Spending precedes taxes)

      Here’s a good 5 minute video from Warren Mosler (father of MMT) who will be in Scotland in May.
      He’s talking about Italy reintroducing the lira if it decided to leave the EU. Notice in the last part how he talks about what the EU needs to do to stop its own demise – allow countries to run larger deficits..

    111. Nana says:

      @Bob Mack

      If I remember correctly I did share it here when it first appeared in 2017 but since then has been added to and some of the warnings appear to be coming to true.

      I share this also but comes with a warning from Steve Bullock

      Take a deep breath before reading this. And maybe some tranquillisers afterwards.
      Two Speri articles here

    112. Haggishunter says:

      I long for the day when Scotland can have real journalists presenting real information on a free thinking, truthful mainstream media.
      Currently all we is the Wings and some bloggers, while the Brits run all the mainstream media producing lies, fears and propaganda.
      That’s a really fekkin sad situation to be in.

    113. ScottieDog says:


      I agree we need to reserve our resources. MMT practitioners talk about exports being a costs. I struggle with this but I see their angle. You are giving up valuable resources for bits of paper.

      This is another important point about currency. By using sterling we are very reliant on exports for revenue. Not so with with a sovereign currency.

    114. Lenny Hartley says:

      Yesindyref2 after the 86 oil price crash when it was as low as 12 us dlrs per barrel, the US was buying it up and storing in huge underground caverns , think Salt mines were best ifi remember correctly. We dont have that storage but there is nothing to stop us building it and having a strategic reserve which could be sold on when prices are high and replentished when prices are lower.

    115. Reluctant Nationalist says:

      Agree about the oil storage. Our state oil company would also need to ensure full production to avoid the negative outcome of the high energy required to run production at a fraction of 100% exceeding the energy potential of the output.

    116. Dan says:

      @ Pete Barton.

      The link you posted has already been archived.

      Using archive is straightforward. Copy the link from the page you want.

      Got to

      Check to see if the particular page you want has been previously archived by pasting the link you saved into the lower box, then press “search”.
      If it has been archived already it will show up with the search result, you then open that page and copy the archived link and paste it into your post.

      If the page you want has not been archived you can then paste the link into the upper box and press “save”.
      This will then produce an archived link.

      I understand it is important to search for a page first as it may be overwritten by a second archiving and thus lose previous information if it has been edited between archiving events.

    117. yesindyref2 says:

      I’m thinking more in simplistic terms. Not that it works quite this way, but if say the value of Scotland was calculated to be £1 trillion, and 50% was issued as currency, i.e. £500 billion, but there was a downturn and Scotland value dropped to £800 billion, there would be too much currency issued to support the 50% £500 billion, so you’;d want to recall, destroy or convert £100 billion to “balance the books”. Very simplistic 🙂

      But simplisitic is what most of us need to get a grip of it.

      Exports as a cost seems a strange one, I’d look at it more as “You need our whisky, we need your rare earth metals”. It’s an exchange, using currency as the medium.

      Seems to me at times the US has stored up just about everything. Sensible them!

    118. Thepnr says:

      Another tweet from Jolyon Maugham’s twitter page.

      Far-right yellow vests and far-left yellow vests fight one another.
      Lyon, France.

    119. Always think of Laurel and Hardy when i see Sweeney and Gaffney at UK parliament,

      they both still think that Scotland hasn`t changed since the 1970`s,

      but i suppose that could cover most of British Labour in Scotland and the abomination of Scottish political journalism.

    120. Confused says:

      America was on the gold standard, then bankrupted itself over vietnam, then “cunningly” went to – the petro-dollar – reserve status was assured and america then got a free ride from the rest of the world – the petrodollar makes the dollar a unit of energy, something fundamental

      … and this is too much to get into here …

      – you can argue the rights and wrongs, but the simple fact is, the USA is massive, and massively powerful … so, if they want to buy your stuff with their own money, that they simply print, you better just go along with it … this is the dollar – but what about the pound?

      It’s a question I’ve never heard asked, never mind answered –

      The POUND has been an “effectively oil backed currency” from the 1970s – deriving many advantages – what has this been worth to the UK?

      – and if the oil was no more, what new level would the pound find itself at, and how much more expensive and difficult life in britain will be?

      – will forex touts crowd europeans and yankees at heathrow to exchange pounds for dollars and euros at many times the official exchange rate?

      I think our elites know fine well the answer.

      All “paper” has to be backed by something, usually other paper … but when you follow it all back, you need something “real” at the bottom of it all. England makes nothing anyone wants – the hydrocarbons are the backing of it all, right at the bottom. The city’s “services” and “wealth creation” – taking a transit fee for funnelling dirty money – there is nothing that cannot be duplicated elsewhere. Paris and Frankfurt may need to buy more servers, hire some bodies, that is all; its just software.

      England being ravaged by the very markets their elites revere – would be delicious, all the while Scotland enjoys stable “Nor-Swiss” levels of socio-economic management.

      Imagine the “double tap” of hard brexit – KAPOW – then Scotland fucks off soon after – BOOM !! … once their welfare state collapses getting to see a GP will be like the battle for Helms Deep … will the BBC producers be standing with a placard “will do costume drama for food”

      We may need to build a wall, or better still – a Solway canal to rival Panama, just to stem the flood of flatlanders … white boys with suspicious accents claiming


    121. Bill Hume says:

      When Indyref2 is called, I don’t think we should try to put these figures before the people of Scotland. Rather we should be persuading people to “look aboot ye” (it’s the motto of Clackmannanshire). Honestly just look aboot ye. You live in a country which is rich in energy, exports electricity to England, which exports more food than we consume and yet….and yet.
      We have food banks, people living on the streets, children (and adults) living in poverty and people being ‘sanctioned’ by an uncaring social security system.
      We drive on potholed streets and our OAPs have the worst pension provisions in the western world.
      Frankly, we don’t need statistics……we need to show people that they need to open their eyes to the world as it exists…………….Look aboot ye.

    122. yesindyref2 says:

      Incidentally, I personally am not against the idea of state intervention in the storage of essentials even if used by private companies. You get lean times and reduce your stocks, getting more “just in time”, but your suppliers up the chain do the same. So when you come to order in a hurry, you have to wait 3 months for them to come over from China in a container on a full container ship and lsoe business – or pay through the nose to get them air-freighted.

      Well, if the upstream suppliers were able to subscribe to a state scheme, in that case the state would make some stockpile of those manufacturing neccessities and release them to the upstream supppliers, so it would go down the chain and keep production going.

      Storage ain’t cheap. But of course in a 100% employment environment with the private sector suffering a bit the employment moves a bit over to the public sector sorting and handling those supplies, the 100% employment keeps up, the cost circulates in the economy for a near zero cost, and everyone gains.

      In theory …

    123. Petra says:

      ‘New pro-Brexit party backed by Nigel Farage could attract ‘thousands of Tory party members’.’

      ….’Brexit is due to take place on 29 March but Mr Farage said that if MPs “kick the can down the road” by extending Article 50 “then logically we would have to fight European elections and I would certainly stand in them in those circumstances”….

    124. Bill Hume says:

      Petra says:
      10 February, 2019 at 8:49 pm

      ‘New pro-Brexit party backed by Nigel Farage

      Excellent news……should be worth a few thousand pro Indyref2 supporters.

    125. For me, it is a moral thing, this Scottish Independence. I want to live in a country, normalised to decide its own path, in peaceful cooperation with its European neighbours.

      I’ve resented living in a colony since childhood.

      However, so much of the debate is conducted on economic terms and that was certainly the case in 2014. The economic future was one of two main areas of scaremongering by Bitter Together.

      This post is brilliant. It needs summarising and put on a bus. It needs put in front of every nose in the country, with big simple graphics, such as those, even Billy Mitchell could understand.

      Next big one, for the other bus, is pensions. A lot of selfish old folks need convincing and it’s a big demographic against change. We can’t wait for winter to do our work for us, as most of the fuckers have central heating.

      So pensions next for your scalpel, please Stu.

      From my experience of 2014 – these are the arguments we need to put forward…

      We subsidise England, it’s not the other way round.
      Your pension is at risk by staying in the Union.

    126. john boy says:

      Another excellent piece

    127. ScottieDog says:

      In terms of valuing the country, I’m not sure there is a need to think that way. If there is a downturn the private sector becomes depressed. People lose their jobs and that triggers the government automatic stabilisers – basically welfare payments in an answer to increased unemployment.
      This is what really matters (or should) to the government.

      As tax return (I don’t call it revenue) to the government reduces, the spending gap (deficit) increases.

      More money is now entering the economy via the state and so the central bank is producing more Scot pounds

      Note – we won’t necessarily have that function with sterling or the euro unless the government stockpiles reserves.

      I’m kind of the same wrt to exports – but I would say if there are EXCESS resources that can be exported then it allows the government to accrue foreign reserves (important if there is a currency peg). If we however import, all we are doing is sending bits of paper in return for real resources that belong to another country.

    128. Al Dossary says:

      We need storage – End of story. Storage for oil, storage for gas. But we also need storage for our renewables. That will be the next challenge. A challenge that a hopefilly soon to be independant government will meet head on.

      Shell only last year made a fortune by buying up every last barrel of oil that came through the Forties pipeline at sub $35 per barrel. They sat that same oil in tankers all areond the East coast till the price rose to $45+ and sold the lot through Rotterdam. It got so bad that there literally were few available supertankers for shipping as the normally spare capacity was bobbing around all over the world, fully loaded waiting on the price to rise.

    129. Cactus says:

      Have you yet seen tonight’s moon…

      From the west end of Glasgow.

      That’s where it’s at…

      Possible burp.


    130. yesindyref2 says:

      There’s some validity to the fear that MMT gone mad would lead to a sharp drop in the currency value against other currencies, and inflation, so it needs some kind of mechanism to reassure the detractors and the general public that not too much currency is issued – for vanity projects for instance!

      Hence the simple idea of having the currency in cotal circulation (paper and electronic) measurable against some relatively normal statistic, be it GDP, GNI, or some arbitrary value like the total lifetime earning expectations of everyone working in Scotland (say £2 trillion at a very rough guess).

      Something that can be regularly published and verified in an easy fashion.

    131. Brian MacLeod says:

      The thing with “pooling and sharing” within the UK is that I wouldn’t feel so bad about it if in fact it had been pooled and shared.

      That it hasn’t is borne out by the state of Scotland and most of England outside the home counties.

      Instead it has all been siphoned off into the pockets of the Tory billionaires.

      That’s not “pooling and sharing”, that’s robbery.

    132. Iain 2 says:

      One way to convert the older generation to a pro indy view is the Scottish Government promising to uprate pensions to at least the European average as soon as independence is gained.
      Uk pensions are amongst the lowest in the developed world.

    133. Lenny Hartley says:

      Yesindyref2 my severely depleted brain cells have been churning away, the salt caverns are being used to store compressed air producd by wind turbines when the wind is blowing. When there is no wind thry use compressed air to power turbines to generate leccy. They were using caverns for oil storage but not necessary those which were made by the extraction of salt.

    134. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Dan at 8:28 pm.

      You typed,
      “I understand it is important to search for a page first as it may be overwritten by a second archiving and thus lose previous information if it has been edited between archiving events.”

      That’s why using the Internet Archive makes more sense. It captures ‘snapshots’ of web sites and stores them chronologically. It doesn’t overwrite previously archived versions. It’s at:-

      For example, I pasted the url,

      of your archived link into the “Wayback Machine” search box. Turns out that that page was last archived on 26th March, 2018. Any subsequent changes to that page will NOT alter the archived version. Changes will be archived at a later date for comparison.

      Here’s the link to the result I got:-

      As you can see, the page was previously archived on 9th December, 2017. You can see all the archived versions in the calendar at the top of the Wayback Machine page. Click on each of them to show, in a calendar below, the dates that they were archived. Then click on the date in the calendar to see the version archived on that date. is ok – as long as people don’t overwrite older versions. Wayback Machine negates that possibility.

    135. Lenny Hartley says:

      Al Dossary, happens every time the oil price is under pressure. I see more tankers andhored in Brodick Bay waiting to go to Finnart to get loaded up when the price is low than when its high.

    136. Fireproofjim says:

      Re crude oil storage. You don’t need to build storage tanks or any other storage system.
      As long as you have offshore oil, as Scotland has, you just need to develop an oilfield complete with well heads and a pipe system but don’t produce any oil. The oil is not going anywhere. It’s been there for millions of years.
      Then in an emergency you simply open the valves and pipe ashore what you need.
      A refinery on shore is necessary of course.

    137. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Iain 2 at 9:16 pm.

      You typed,
      “One way to convert the older generation to a pro indy view is the Scottish Government promising to uprate pensions to at least the European average as soon as independence is gained.
      Uk pensions are amongst the lowest in the developed world.”

      I think that makes sense. Scotland could afford it – and it could be a game changer, as long as that policy was reported faithfully in the media…

    138. Phronesis says:

      The working class has been repeatedly let down in Liverpool and Glasgow by the current WM set up. Yet another reason to add to a growing list for an independent Scotland that has control of its entire economy.The working class of today is the working poor- a direct result of decades of ill-judged domestic political choices. Now we have Farage’s pro Brexit party touting ‘no deal’ bravado,the middle classes will be joining the working poor- quite an achievement for British politics.

      ‘In 2007, not long after the publication of Changing lives, the western world was hit by the banking crisis. The UK Labour Government of the day argued that economic mayhem could only be avoided by a hugely expensive public buy-out of the worst affected banks. This had to be paid for and consequential austerity policies have been steadily reducing government expenditure on public services – a consensus apparently shared to varying degrees by all elected governments since and until this day. This has obviously impacted on service delivery at a time of increasing demand due to a rapidly ageing population’

      ‘If the trickle-down myth were true, we would not see wide variation in poverty and inequality between countries with similar per capita GDP. Markets—left to themselves—do not develop conduits for redistribution other than transfers of wealth or sharing of income within family or kinship groups…
      It takes the courage to overrule objections and mobilize fiscal resources to finance investment in social protection. An affluent state must pay for effective and efficient social transfer systems. Simply put, we need effective, fair, progressive tax regimes; sound collection mechanisms; and good fiscal governance’

    139. yesindyref2 says:

      An illustration of that need – the need to sell MMT to the general public by having some simple yardstick is this. The ScotGov annoucnes it’s going to print another £100 billion to build the bridge to Northern Ireland. There’s uproar, and the currency actually drops and inflation rises. Proof postive that MMT is mince, dangerous mince.

      So go back one step. Taking that daft figure of £2 trillion lifetime earnings total, and after careful consulation with reams and legions of accountants and institutes and even GmK, the percentage is set at 25%, so stage by stage £500 billion is issued.

      Now what happens is the ScotGov updates the figures. The lifetime working figure used has been carefully raised from 33 years to 35 years, the incomes have gone up as everyone is on at least a living wage and full employment if they wish, and the working population has risen from 2 million to 2.5 million since the last update.

      It turns out the figure is now £3 trillion (I didn’t check the maths). The ScotGov announce this update, say that the figure available for currency “drawing down” is now £750 billion so there’s another £250 billion available, but being “prudential”, they’re only going to draw £100 billion to build a bridge to Norther Ireland which will in any case, largely be spent in the economy for a nett cost of only £20 billion.

      Stunned silence!

      Apart from KH whose squiggly lines have gone off the chart and halfway to Cactus’s moon. Ah well, there’s plenty of room on the darkside. Owooooooo!

    140. David Neill says:

      WRT Oil Storage couldn’t this be utilised

    141. Cubby says:


      I have said that many times myself. Plus provide some recompense for the Waspi women. Plus a promise to stop increasing the pension age eligibility. Plenty of yes votes will be won by these policies.

    142. yesindyref2 says:

      Indeed. That would be a great deeper level of resource storage, so you have refined for a months’ supply, stored crude for a further 3 months, then the offshore stored, perhaps via the onshore storage, keeps the flow going – for years if neccessary.

      And of course any can be offloaded and sold if external funds (paper) are needed.

    143. yesindyref2 says:

      Literally – an oil fund 🙂

    144. hackalumpoff says:

      Re gas & oil storage, in NI they are doing doing this for gas.
      There are various other sites in UK as weLl, all salt caverns.

      Oil storage here

      and this is fairly straight forward to make.

      Also all the old oil platform concrete substructures in the North Sea are storage. eg Niniian Central if I remember properly.

    145. Dan says:

      Cheers for that info BDTT. I’ve bookmarked that site as it does seem a better way of doing it.

      In fact I’ve just tried it out with a page I was reading which is kind of relative to this article and where all the money goes. The links it produces are a bit longer though.

      Looks like Phase 2 of the London Power Tunnels project is about to start.
      Presume this will be getting funding assistance from Westminster as it will be deemed “UK Infrastructure”.

      Reading that page made me think of the Hunger Games with the districts serving the Capitol. I wonder where they’ll source all the leccy for those spanking new cables…

      French and Dutch gauges maxing out again! Every time I’ve looked recently they are providing over 5% of UK supply.

    146. Pete Barton says:


      Help is at hand!
      Thanks for that; I now need to write this on an asda note pad and memorise it!

      If I had a brain I’d be dangerous. .

    147. Contrary says:

      The Green New Deal is the latest, and more comprehensively outlined, economic policy suggestion involving MMT :

      First a song
      Green new deal song

      Comment on the petrodollar and the green new deal (an example)

      Green new deal in America

      The idea is gathering momentum throughout the western world, and it will be interesting to see how far it gets through congress. MMT is a theory that encompasses economic and political issues – not just a fiscal policy, it’s a practical application of fiat currency, and how it can be used to maintain a stable economy by a currency-producing government, it allows for inflation, deficits etc. Current economic policies are not fit for purpose, the were based on gold standard, labour-driven economies. It’s the people and the resources of the land (and sea) that make a country, not money markets.

      In other news, I am sure no one will be greatly surprised by corruption from MPs over Brexit

    148. yesindyref2 says:

      @Lenny Hartley
      Compressed air. Sounds reasonable strangely enough. Kind of like pumped water storage.

      Anyways, just to totally confirm my status as resident whacko, I have to say I really really don’t like the idea of foreign reserves to prop up a currency.

      Such a waste of good money, sitting in a vault doing nothing, nothing at all.

    149. Al Dossary says:

      5 million gallons of storage from what I undersrand is about 120,000 barrels. Not a lot of oil to be honest. The refinery beside me in the gulf refines 500k a day. Ineos about 200k.

      Same with gas. The UK has shockinly low reserves stored to ride out any storm, especially goven that Centric is in the process of running down the Rough stoeage facility due to maintenance concerns.

      Things do tend to get a little rusty if you don’t employ painters to keep them painted – just as BP, Shell etc.

    150. Al Dossary says:

      Okies – it seems tha 5 million barrels us per tank, of which there were 5 or 6. Still it works out at less than 1 days production of oil from our waters.

    151. hackalumpoff says:

      James Kelly getting dressed for the Parly, watch it all and then read the comments.

    152. CameronB Brodie says:

      GERS, the partisan distortion of statistics aimed at the cultural subjugation and economic exploitation of a nation. That’s scientific racism, that is.

      A case study of critique: Critical perspectives on critical accounting

    153. Marcia says:

      Seen on Twitter:

      Reporting Scotland has won the BAFTA for best fictional programme. In her speech Jackie Bird thanked her scriptwriting team of Ruth Davidson, David Mundell and Murdo Fraser and praised the tens of thousands of ‘Proud Scots’ who continue to watch the show.

    154. Iain 2 says @ 9:16:
      One way to convert the older generation to a pro indy view is the Scottish Government promising to uprate pensions to at least the European average as soon as independence is gained.

      Spot on, Iain. Paid for by the ‘acre tax’ – £100 per annum per acre owned.
      That’ll be £24,000,000 to you, your lordship the Duke of Buccleuch and £3,380,000 to you, my grace, the Earl of Mansfield.

      And, fair’s fair, here’s £25 for my vegetable plot.

    155. yesindyref2 says:

      OT – defence.
      With Australia having decided to build 9 frigates based on the T26 design, Canada has just decided to build 15 after a Dutch competitor’s legal challenge based on the T26 being too slow was thrown out. It’s good news for BaE, in theory good for the UK, not sure how much benefit apart from electronics and maybe some design work it will have for the Clyde and Scotland generally. Little I suspect. Note they’ll be built in Canada and Australia, not on the Clyde.

      Meanwhile of 13 planned for the UK on the Clyde including 8 full anti-sub and 5 general purpose frigates based on the hull design, that’s down to 8, with some thinking it’ll be just 6 the UK goes for in the end, and just 3 ordered so far (the RN orders in batches so fairly normal). Will the unit price for the UK’s T26 come down? Probably not.

      I think it explains BaE’s lack of interest generally in the T31 which being cheaper (fixed price) wouldn’t be as profitable if at all, for BaE, though they do have a bid in for building in – Liverpool, mentioned in a comment or two above!

      We’re Better Together, and promises are promises.


    156. Contrary says:

      Here is a good brief-ish explanation of MMT, with caveats, what it says and what it doesn’t – e.g. It does not say anything about politics or how the country is run (earlier post re the green new deal just uses MMT as a foundation to develop policies that can create a fairer society),

      That is, it takes careful governance, as will any economy, it just gives guidance on management.

    157. yesindyref2 says:

      According to the Ashcroft morning after poll of why people voted for what in Indy Ref 1

      29% of NO voters put “defence and security” as one of the 2 or 3 reasons they voted NO. (16% for voting YES).

      Whatever happened to that?

    158. Pete Barton says:

      That Farouk al-Kasim article is chillingly familiar..

      To our experience of how our oil industry was run here, especially initially.

      Oh, how different things might have been.

      Check out his last paragraph…especially pertinent.

      “Where do want to go? Then you choose the path most suited to get you there”

      We didn’t have that choice then.

      We do have that choice resurrected for us, by fate or circumstance

      But choose we must.

      (And a fair settlement should we part as good neighbours)

      Maybe we CAN leave some of the black stuff still there, for future kith and kin.

    159. McDuff says:

      Magnificent article Rev.
      Every day you lift us up.

    160. Davie Oga says:

      What’s to stop Scotgov from creating a state owned energy company now. There are over 60 energy suppliers in the UK now. Start to get the retail end up and running for the day that Scotland’s energy resources are under control of the nascent state. Profits from gas and electricity supply could be used to subsidize provision for low income households to alleviate energy poverty or reinvested in frontline services.

    161. Thomas Valentine says:

      You are not mentioning the economic effect of so called Scottish spending spent outwith Scotland. The UK as the unitary state claims to spend on Scotland’s behalf to cover things like defence, government services, UK infrastructure etc. You have previously dealt with the UK’s capital investment funds which seem valid for bridge building in England’s south east but apparently not available normally for bridges over the Forth. All this money is in effect extracted from the Scottish economy and lost.

      If the economy is £100 and £30 is taken in tax with £10 spent in England. That means the Scottish economy starts with £90 the next year. England’s economy gets an injection of £10. That £10 is not available to spend on Scottish businesses and goods internally. That’s salaries not being spent on supermarket shopping, restaurants, cafes, bars, clothes, houses, cars and on and on.

      If there were decent statistical data we could put a number to the annual loss of GDP to the Scottish economy. A similar exercise for the regions of England and Wales could identify just how much of London’s and it’s region’s GDP is sucked out of the rest of the UK.

      It’s like we are all in a big tandem bicycle where we all forced to peddle at a higher gear. The guy at the front working the handle bars peddles at a lower gear and tells us we are out of breath because we just aren’t fit enough. If we say we’ll get our own bike, he says ” you’re not fit enough to peddle a bike on your own.”

      Now he’s telling us we’ve all had a vote to peddle up this here mountain and off the cliff edge on the other side.

    162. yesindyref2 says:

      For our defence needs by the way, I think in Indy Ref 1 the T26 would have been the right choice given the apparent politics of co-operation of the time but things have changed. I’d see us moving quicker to closer co-operation with the Nordics and Holland perhaps.

      The T26 at £1.1 billion each is a bit much, the T31 at in theory £250 million is too little, I’d go for around £600 million each, and preferably the likes of Babcock, with BMT and OMT for an up-version of the T31, which would presumably have to be quiet and anti-Sub primarily, with GPFF capability and of course mark 41 VLS, possibly the Norweigan Naval Strike Missile. I think they’re well able for that, and Babcock though International would be our own main defence contractor of choice.

      Instead of 4 T26 stretching it to 5 maybe, it’d be 5 or even 6 of the cheaper ones, and rather than the Royal Navy’s “rule of three” for how many are needed to have one at sea on duty, I’w want to see that cut to a rule of 2, with also one in reserve or on training, to keep 2 at sea at need and a 3rd and maybe even a 4th depending on refits and maintenance. We’d need to run a tight ship, so to speak.

      Anyways, that’s it for defence.

    163. ScottieDog says:

      “MMT gone mad”
      All MMT provides is a description of how the economy actually works – a far more accurate description than that provided by the current economic narrative. It is not a policy.

      Neocon has been allowed to go mad for the past 40 odd years. So what did that give us?..

      Private debt to GDP ratio exceeding 300% (not including derivatives which we are also liable for which is in the trillions)
      QE – £445bn pumped into financial portfolios on the stock market making the wealthiest households richer by an average of £125k each.
      £1.8 trillion national debt (part of which effectively cancelled via QE)

      The national debt is private wealth anyway – mostly owned by those with the biggest financial portfolios.

      Actually spending, having seen the economy through the insights of MMT would have meant a far lower issuance of money by the state.

      For instance the money issued via QE, had it been pumped into the productive economy (as it should have been ) would have been inflationary. So a far smaller amount would have yielded a much bigger effect,

      Imagine the effect of £10bn directed at green growth??

      Think about it.

      You’re looking trnough a neoliberal lens.

    164. ScottieDog says:

      Also MMT gone mad?

      MMT talks about spending being limited by inflation and the real resources available in the economy. There’s nothing mad in that.

      We are currently spending way beyond the real constraints of our environment.

    165. yesindyref2 says:

      @ScottieDog “You’re looking trnough a neoliberal lens.

      It’s not me saying “MMT gone mad”, it’s what its opponents and detractors would say. To some extent MMT has to sell itself to them, but it certainly has to sell itself to the person in the street, the voter, and the infuence-makers in the political parties. Hence the safeguards of any different application of the theories have to be very clearly visible and understandable.

      Anyway “You’re looking trnough a neoliberal lens.” applies to those people above, the Andrew Wilsons of this world, those who would have to accept it or at least tolerate it, for it to get any traction.

      What I’m saying is it needs a sound safe sales pitch, and so far it ain’t got one.

    166. Gerry says:


      This is worth a look. Unredacted Electoral Commission pdf from April 2016 found online, instantly removed when link was made public but archived here.

    167. Thepnr says:

      @Davie Oga

      There are plans for a state owned Scottish energy company to be up and running before the end of this parliament.

    168. yesindyref2 says:

      Re the St Andrews Uni fire, apparently it was put out by 9pm according to the Independent, so that’s relatively good news.

    169. ScottieDog says:

      My apologies. Guess you were playing devils advocate. Thems the risks!

      How you deal with the Andrew Wilson’s. You just ask them questions!

      E.g how do you avoid austerity during a negative business cycle whilst tusing a foreign currency?
      Is a country really independent if it’s monetary policy is decided elsewhere and its fiscal policy has to mirror the currency issuer ?
      How do your guarantee bank deposits in sterling during a crisis – esp since you plan to adopt London regulation?

      Then ask what basic tenets of MMT he disagrees with. (Principles mentioned above)

      What you find is that they have to resort to misrepresenting those principles otherwise it threatens their position – as GMK sadly did.

      It’s funny though MMT references papers written by central bankers back in the 1940s. They even reference the work of Scotsman Mitchell Innes back in 1913…

      It’s nothing new. For example it brought the policies of full employment in the post war period. It was the norm. The new kid in town came along in the late 70s via Milton Friedman – with disasterous consequences which we are dealing with today.

    170. ScottieDog says:

      Ps regarding previous rugby comment about it being a game for toffs. It’s a bit of both for me – having played the sport for over 25 years.

      Scotland ended up lagging behind the other nations because it was still governed by the amateur bufties in the SRU. I would say we were at least 5 years behind the rest of the home nations,

      The borders pro team could have been (and should have been) saved. The local council even offered to step in but the SRU declined. We could have had 3 pro teams today. The borders would have started out like Connaught – a development side. Connaught won the pro12 a couple of years back.

      The sport was held back by those IMHO preserving their own selfish values.

    171. Davie Oga says:


      Cheers for the link.

    172. CameronB Brodie says:

      It is a little ironic that defense and security are significant concerns for Scots, given the political economy of Anglo-American neo-liberalism is one of state sponsored terrorism.

      Editors’ introduction: neoliberalism and/as terror


      The articles in this special issue are drawn from papers presented at a conference entitled “Neoliberalism and/as Terror”, held at the Nottingham Conference Centre at Nottingham Trent University by the Critical Terrorism Studies BISA Working Group (CSTWG) on 15–16 September 2014. The conference was supported by both a BISA workshop grant and supplementary funds from Nottingham Trent University’s Politics and International Relations Department and the Critical Studies on Terrorism journal. Papers presented at the conference aimed to extend research into the diverse linkages between neoliberalism and terrorism, including but extending beyond the contextualisation of pre-emptive counterterrorism technologies and privatised securities within relevant economic and ideological contexts.

      Thus, the conference sought also to stimulate research into the ways that neoliberalism could itself be understood as terrorism, asking – amongst other questions – whether populations are themselves terrorised by neoliberal policy. The articles presented in this special issue reflect the conference aims in bringing together research on the neoliberalisation of counterterrorism and on the terror of neoliberalism.

      Keywords: neoliberalism, liberalism, terror, terrorism, counterterrorism, political violence, protest

    173. Fireproofjim says:

      Although an independent Scotland will probably build ships for our Navy, we will also be entitled to our share of current Royal Navy assets. We won’t want Trident subs or aircraft carriers but 8.3% of the total current value would be a very good start.

    174. yesindyref2 says:

      No worries 🙂

      I think one way is to exactly compare it with QE and discuss QE. Turn the argument on its head.

      For instance, the BoE issued I think £175 billion QE over a few months in 2009, and then did more over the next 3 years.

      So – if £175 billion was “good”, why did the BoE not issue £1,000 billion in QE in one go in 2009? And then the same the next year, the next year, and so on ad nauseam?

      Let them think about that, and then draw a similar comparison with MMT.

    175. Thepnr says:

      I’ve archived my earlier link about the Scottish state owned energy company because I found when I clicked from WOS it wanted me to register ect. Probably OK the first the time you click.

    176. Iain mhor says:

      Amongst all the interesting discussion around oil, I thought I’d point out it is not the most precious commodity on the planet.
      That would be fresh water.
      Lucky we don’t have any barrels of that to trade. The unstable fluctuations in pricing would ruin us. There might be an off chance someone could take it all off our hands and save us the stress – if we paid them to do it.
      Let’s face it, fresh water would be a helluva burden, besides it would probably be due to run out soon anyway.

    177. yesindyref2 says:

      The thing about QE is that most people you talk to about MMT will have some idea about QE and a bit of how it works. And probably most of them will disapprove of the way it’s done. It’s giving money banks and rich bankers with their bonuses. (Well, that’s what they’ll likely think).

      So you’re instantly “on their side” – and vice versa. From then, comparing MMT to QE, even if different, just builds on the inclusion you’ve managed to get in the first couple of minutes. I’d not bother too much with the word “neoliberal” all the same, it’s a bit of an insult to those who you hope have an open mind.

      Possibly the same as calling an undecided Indy voter a “Britnat” … it’s a lost conversion straight away, their back and guard are straight up in full force “get out of my personal space”.

    178. ScottieDog says:

      They would have shouted – inflation! True but only inflation of the ftse – which the bbc etc reports as a barometer of the health of economy

    179. yesindyref2 says:

      Yes we would, and I guess it’s what we’d get, which does force some sort of co-operation. Money would be better, but that’s not our right to demand unfortunately. If it’s soon enough and I hope it is, it could be T23s, maybe a bit stripped down of sensitive kit. We could put our own on.

      Still, if they offer no debt but no ships or fast jets, I could live with that.

    180. yesindyref2 says:

      Indeed, so the argument then is that, just as QE was in “sensible” amounts, so would the issuance of new currency, but instead of banks it would be used for public sector projects of value to everybody, and with a direct and indirect return on the money spent to boot.

    181. CameronB Brodie says:

      I might come across as a bit of a crank but neo-liberalism really does pose a serious threat to open, democratic society and global sustainability.

      Global Rise Of Neoliberal State And Its Impact On Citizenship: Experiences In Developing Nations


      In general, the realization of major principles and dimensions of citizenship, especially with regard to people’s rights, entitlements, and obligations, is largely determined by the nature of the state, which varies depending on its socio-historical context. It is argued in this article that the recent decades have witnessed a fundamental shift in the nature of the state worldwide, based on neoliberal assumptions, policies, and programs. Focusing mainly on developing countries, the article examines the major tenets of such a neoliberal state, especially with regard to its policy preferences and reorientations, and evaluates its implications for democratic citizenship in these countries. It concludes by exploring some policy alternatives for the revival of such a citizenship.

      neoliberal state, citizenship rights, policy reforms, developing nations

    182. Dan says:

      Aye Iain, you’re not wrong.
      All the water I’ve got here is obviously the wrong type. It’s gone solid with the cold.
      Scotland, a country where for 1/4 of the year you put stuff in a fridge to keep it warm!

      I’m still waiting on the thaw so I can get the last half dozen of my carrots out the ground. We’ve had minus ten temps recently so the soil is rock hard and the fleece covering them has frozen to the ground.
      Thankfully I’ve still got my stock of pickled beetroot so I’m able to keep the scurvy at bay for the time being.

    183. Cactus says:


      Jist oot The Dram.

      Westies Love XXX

    184. Cactus says:

      And where do we begin…?

      Where do we go NOW.

      Scotland knows.

      Aye aye.

    185. Cactus says:

      Once again Mr T…

      Take a deep breath People.

      Be high.

    186. Cactus says:

      Couple a cans, couple a drams…

      We Love U Scotland.

      Life is coming.

    187. Thepnr says:

      This is simply extraordinary and unbelievable but it’s true.

      Post-Brexit UK should be ready to use ‘hard power’ – defence minister

      LONDON (Reuters) – Britain should be ready to use military force to support its global interests after Brexit, defence minister Gavin Williamson will say on Monday, adding that the boundaries between peace and war are becoming blurred.

      Williamson will outline plans to send its new aircraft carrier to the Pacific, invest in offensive cyber capabilities and adopt a harder military stance after Brexit than it has done in recent years.

      “Brexit has brought us to a great moment in our history. A moment when we must strengthen our global presence, enhance our lethality, and increase our mass,” Williamson will say in a speech in London.

      He will describe the boundaries between peace and war as becoming “blurred” and say that Britain and its allies had to be ready “to use hard power to support our interests”.

      The daft cunt must think he’s Churchill!

      This lot really are sick, they are pathetic and it just gets more embarrassing by the day for the UK which is a laughing stock.

      Lets do our best to open the eyes of the soft No voter to this travesty.

    188. Thepnr says:

      My formatting went a bit skew wiff, well it is bed o’ clock LOL.

    189. Thepnr says:

      Here’s the link before I go to bed.

    190. Cactus says:

      Hey 300,000+ regular Wings readers…

      Freedom comes Theexcellentpnr.

      It’s twoo’.

    191. Capella says:

      @ Thepnr – incredible that “spoilt brat ” Williamson is descending into madness. Who is he planning to attack? Shpuld be in a steaight jacket in a darkened room till he calms down.

      @ Dan – I’ve got the right type of water but it’s in the wrong place. I fear it would be prohibitively expensive to pipe it into the grid for consumption down south, where all the customers are.

    192. Cactus says:

      This one is for ye Alex:

      iScotland soon…

    193. Meg merrilees says:

      Ian Mhor

      re fresh water

      Was hearing from a reliable source ( no pun intended) that Highland Spring is exporting loads of the stuff.

      They bottle their own product label plus another water called HYDR8 which they sell at 4 mini bottles for peanuts (50p or there abouts).

      All flavoured Volvic water is Highland Spring water – have a look at the bottle there is no mention of volcanoes on the flavoured stuff.

      Most flavoured waters, juice drinks, bottled water from M&S and loads other products are all loaded neat onto tankers at Highland Spring in Blackford – where hundreds of lorries a day are heading to a bottling plant in the south.

      It seems they are now swapping over to trains which will head south overnight from a direct link going into the factory compound.

      Literally millions of gallons of our precious water is being shipped out out of Scotland and all this by a landlord who will not rent out his tenant farms any longer in case the land is ‘contaminated’ by occupants. You’ll notice if you drive up the A9 north of Dunblane around Blackford nearly all the farms north of the roadway are vacant.

    194. Capella

      was browsing the newspaper headlines about 10 minutes ago and saw an article – didn’t read it and can’t remember which paper – which was headed
      ‘Armed Forces need to become “more lethal”


    195. Cactus says:

      The quickening follows… the happening.

      Sunday night to ye y’all.

      Sleep well Partick!

    196. AH!

      was reading the page from the bottom up — apologies I realise you’ve been talking about that for a while tonight.

      What a terrifying prospect this idiot is conjuring up.

      How have we come to this.

      A few years ago we were living in a world of relative peace, respect and tolerance.

      How can it have gone so drastically into reverse, more to the point WHO is causing this?

      What future are we leaving to the next generation.

      Williamson is a total idiot and is obviously sabre rattling as part of his bid to to be the next PM

    197. Thepnr says:


      Foot is now tapping my good man. Class always shines through 🙂

    198. geeo says:

      Fireproofjim says @11.44:

      “we will also be entitled to our share of current Royal Navy assets. We won’t want Trident subs or aircraft carriers but 8.3% of the total current value would be a very good start”.

      Small detail, but why presume a 2019 population share of assets as 8.3% ?

      The population split in 1707 when the treaty of Union was signed was not 8.3%, it was closer to 50-50 if i recall correctly from a post a while back (Mr Peffers maybe)?

      As legally equal partners, why would we accept just 8.3% ?

      Other than that, like your thinking. People think we would be walking away with nothing, clearly not the case.

    199. Cactus says:

      The day is young…

      Still, it’s already done.

      Be a day back.

      Be SO manic.

      But Love.

    200. Cactus says:

      Just Love people.

      Fuck religion.

      Love ’19.

      Love U.


    201. Cactus says:

      Hey Alex ~

      Ah was kindly transported / returned back tae ma hoose frae The Dram.

      It was fun fun fun space space space time time time like.


    202. Cactus says:

      Batter in y’all, ahm jist buzzin’ after a musical sesh in Glasgow.

      These things happen.

      Be refreshed.

    203. Cactus says:

      What’s your lucky number?

      You may inhale.

    204. Cactus says:

      Indy Live Dot Radio.

      Cool jingle.


    205. yesindyref2 says:

      Percentages or historical splits would be for the main negotiators to settle overall, inclduing all assets and all debts.

      Defence is almost a separate issue as long as it fits within the overall financial settlement. And that would hopefully be done on sensible military grounds, with the military making the detailed negotiations. With both iScotland and rUK going to be in NATO, it would be a curious relationship afterwards, because while for instance the UK Gov are having it out over Brexit with France and Germany, the military are quietly getting on with excercises that involve all three arms in the likes of the Arctic, with units from all three countries taking part (and others) in complete co-operation. Politics is for politicians, god love ’em, like gung-ho Williamson. Leave it to the professionals.

      On a military basis it’s seriously best to let the rUK take the lead over whether it wants to share assets, or provide money instead. What it would be looking at is Scotland as its back door. It would want access to and for the subs, both SSBNs (nuclear armed) and the SSNs (hunter killers). It would want airspace protected. But for surface maritime, it currently as we know mostly apart from the SSNs, covers from Portsmouth.

      Bearing in mind the minimal level of fleet escorts the RN has, it’s possible the rUK would prefer to keep the lot, and pretty well all naval assets apart maybe from an OPV or two. Which could suffice to get Scotland started. For air, it really needs the QRA North whatever unionists might say to the contrary. QRA South adds at least 10 minutes to intercept, and Scotland would not straight away be able to take over QRA duties. So some sort of co-basing arrangement might be preferred by both Scotland and the rUK, and even encouraged by NATO. No interruption to the total UK coverage would be ideal.

      So it could be we take a full squadron of Typhoons or more, with a co-based squadron or two of the RAF at Lossie plus MPAs, and very little naval assets which we would then purchase off the shelf, or longer-term build ourselves. If we took 3 or 4 T23s, they’re say 6 to 15 years away from decommissioning, they’d still be usable but old. Our own strategy would be to replace them over time.

      From a defence point of view I’d hope it’s still sensible, but if not, we take the money or suitable share of assets and its goodbye from us.

      So yeah, it’s pretty open, or should be, something I liked about the White Paper which some unionists complained about – not enough detail on defence. Well, duh, it depends on how negotations abd future agreements go.

      Nothing to stop us though working out our needs in 10 years, hence why most if not all defence projections assume our own free choice of assets – like Gripens not Typhoons 🙂

      Nothing to do with turning our backs on our fair share of assets overall, including the defence assets.

    206. Cactus says:

      Today is a new day, what could possibly happen in between?

      Watch out for events.

      And life.

    207. Breeks says:

      Petra says:
      10 February, 2019 at 6:20 pm

      ….. No point on manning barricades if most of the people on our side of the barricade still want to be on the other side, don’t you think?

      No point??? Is that the same “no point promoting Independence if most of the people voted to stay in the Union” philosophy?

      You make me sick. How many SNP voters thought they were voting for this complete abdication of responsibility?

      46 days to avert catastrophic disaster and we’re led by the timidity of mice.

      46 days to Brexit deadline, empty handed with the same old rhetoric, no plan, no credibility…. I better double check Mary Lou MacDonald was definitely talking about Theresa May.

      Did we throw ashore a wildcat or a beached whale? Hmmm… let’s all talk about plankton….

    208. Cactus says:

      168,949,199 present-day views baby girl wanna go do wanna fuck…

      Go harder like.


    209. Cactus says:

      And life… welcome back to it Abe:

      Enjoy yer journey.

    210. Gerry says:

      QT last week. 2nd “SNP bad” guy, Nigel Ambler has the same name as a former labour local council candidate in Greetland and Stainland 2002, also in 2006.
      watch?v=p2xJuPyUQRg 18m55s

    211. Petra says:

      Westminster totally losing the plot.

      ‘UK to send flagship aircraft carrier Queen Elizabeth to disputed Pacific waters in display of ‘hard power’.’

      ‘Gavin Williamson will declare the UK “may have to intervene” in future to confront aggression from countries like Russia and China who “flout international law” and are “resurgent” in rebuilding their armed forces.’


      Professor John Robertson:- ‘Yet more objective evidence Scotland’s economy healthy in SNP care.’


      @ Bill Hume says at 8:57 pm …. ”Petra says …. ‘New pro-Brexit party backed by Nigel Farage’ – Excellent news……should be worth a few thousand pro Indyref2 supporters.”

      It looks as though the big political shift is on Bill with the Tory and Labour parties imploding. Tories and Labourites changing position and moving to the right. Tories joining Farage and Labourites joining the Tories. This country is in some mess now and it’s clear that the Union is over and out. We’ll have to hope that when we get our Independence our nearest neighbour, poor wee sad Engerland, won’t have a negative impact on us. The good news, in the short term, is as you say more ‘sitting on the fence types’ joining us.

    212. Nana says:

      The UK government bulldozed through over 400 pieces of legislation, in preparation for no deal brexit.
      The Prime Minister knew that a BRITISH trident missile, test fired off the Florida coast, flew 180 degrees off course, towards the USA, before being destroyed by range safety officers.
      And Mrs May still ordered the trident system replacement, knowing full well, that missiles might malfunction and wipe out American cities in “friendly fire”.

      Tory MP risks sacking over ‘sexual touching’ claims

    213. Nana says:

      Factbox – Brexit: What will happen in the British parliament on Feb. 14?

      Boris Johnson backs call for multibillion cut to UK aid budget

      We are on a slippery slope, this is how states fail. Not there yet, outside investors and other countries still expect us to be able to turn this round. But their confidence is decreasing, just read what they are saying. But will MPs act?

    214. Nana says:

      Interesting new developments on Richard Cook, man behind the DUP’s Brexit dark money (thread). Cook’s letters to Parliament’s fake news inquiry have now been published
      See link here

      BRITAIN’S navy and marines are conducting military exercises close to Venezuela, the Morning Star has discovered.

    215. Nana says:

      Former head of the civil service @SirBobKerslake says the government and police are preparing for “riots on the streets” in case of a no deal Brexit

      Eurotunnel write to Grayling to say that Government no deal ferry contracts are anticompetitive:
      Letter here

    216. Nana says:

      May rejects Corbyn’s offer as businesses warn of Brexit cliff edge

      CBI director @cbicarolyn tells #Ridge there is “negligence” on the part of the government over #Brexit.

      This is Fracture Theory in action. If they are using it, it’s because they plan to do something horrendous to everywhere that remains connected to the internet.
      Link to article here

    217. Nana says:

      Look at @SecPompeo frown on his face when Bolivia president speaks the truth about Washington’s criminal actions to conduct its military action,coups, invasions globally

      Caracas where Venezuelans are lining up for blocks to sign a declaration denouncing US intervention and imperialism. One man waiting just told me: “Please put in your picture that we’re not invisible and not being paid.

    218. sinky says:

      The Herald and Scotsman have articles on Thursday’s farcical Question Time.

    219. jezza says:

      Excellent links Nana

    220. Robert Peffers says:

      @Fireproofjim says: 10 February, 2019 at 11:44 pm:

      ” … We won’t want Trident subs or aircraft carriers but 8.3% of the total current value would be a very good start.”

      And there, for all to see is your brainwashing, (curtesy of Westminster), cutting in. Just were does this population share notion come from? Who decides that the share of assets must be based on current population?

      It is madness. Take the one that Westminster uses to rob Scotland blind – oil & gas revenues. Up to 98% of which come out of Scots territory and factually Scotland actually has the longest coastline in Europe and that means we have a larger sea/ocean territory extending out to 200 Miles from our coastline. (except where 200miles overlaps with other country’s continental shelf territory.

      But instead of getting the rampant Lion’s share of oil & Gas revenues we get absolutely nothing because every penny of it goes to Westminster as, “Extra-Regio Territory”, revenue. BTW: we don’t even get the 8.4% population share sent back to us from Westminster for all we get is a per capita based block grant, Just like N. Ireland and Wales, except in fact that is not just based upon population ratio but is based upon the devolved powers from the Westminster parliament.

      That 8.4% share is entirely only a figure that Westminster uses in order to create other statistical figures used to fool the people that Scotland is a basket case economy. There is no 8.4% of oil & gas revenue income gifted to Scotland.

      I’ll put that another way. Assets, and debits, cannot be estimated by population ratios because they can only be based upon actual values. For a glaring example.

      What is the monetary value of one square mile of land?

      Try comparing the City of London one Square mile with one square mile of the bombing range of Cape Wrath on a population basis, or the oil & gas revenue of a North Sea oil field with Lake Windermere.

      People need to start thinking for themselves and stop accepting the, (cough!), wisdom of Westminster at face value.

    221. manandboy says:

      Brexit is an outbreak of suicidal insanity among Westminster’s Ruling Classes, the British Establishment. But there is a greater folly – the No voters of Scotland who believe that staying in the UK is better than Independence for Scotland. Drinking weedkiller makes more sense.

    222. Capella says:

      @ Nana – thx for that Guardian article about UK diverting foreign aid to warmongering on the advice of Boris Johnston. It is a mastereclass in newspeak. Every paragraph a gem. Based on a report by a Henry Jackson Society “strategist”.

      Well worth a read specially as I believe that R4 interviewed BJ this morning for his thoughts on warmongering and BREXIT.

      Boris Johnson backs call for multibillion cut to UK aid budget

    223. jezza says:

      The English have re-named their Aircraft carrier HMS Nae Planes.

      Always remember David Cameron telling us that these Aircraft Carriers would help project British Power around the world.

      Aye right Dave.

    224. Patsy Millar says:

      How sad is it that I’ve only just noticed the button that lets me share this on Facebook!

    225. Nana says:

      Morning Capella, re Bojo the clown on the radio this morning
      see here

    226. Capella says:

      @ Meg merrilees – Highland Spring are owned by an Arab sheikh. Connoisseurs of cool fresh water. They sponsor tennis matches.

    227. Nana says:

      Supply of medicines under threat, ministers now admit

      The EU #Brexit negotiators have published the MOTHER OF ALL SLIDESHOWS explaining the Withdrawal Agreement.

      THREAD: Decided to google the forty-eight “practising geoscientists” who signed this letter…
      Re fracking and links to oil companies, who’d have guessed!

    228. Capella says:

      @ Nana – BJ is certainly getting a lot of publicity today. I wonder why?
      Guardian article on Boris backed warmongering again. I particularly like this gem:

      It argues: “The greatest alleviator of poverty in the world has been western capitalism backed by western foreign direct investment.”



      The introduction of a foreign agents act, listing the public relations agencies, reputation management firms, lobbyists, and others who work as agents for foreign states or who lobby on their behalf. Both the US and Australia have introduced similar acts; the US in the 1930s and Australia in 2017.


      A counter-propaganda bill to introduce laws to ensure a health warning on broadcasters and other media that are paid-for propagandists, especially those funded by authoritarian states and which do not have an independent editorial line.
      Giving Ofcom greater powers. RT and Sputnik should not be banned, but fines could be strengthened and Ofcom could investigate broadcasters more quickly.


      A more aggressive and assertive use of financial and legal powers, including unexplained wealth orders and the Magnitsky Amendment to make the UK a less welcoming environment for criminals and corrupt politicians.

      File under “you couldnae make it up”.

    229. john boy says:


      Your link regards medicines’, it really is getting near that time when questions to your GP will need to be asked about the supply side.

      If someone is on long term medication, it would probably be worth asking your GP about the supply of the drug you are on.

    230. Nana says:

      Capella says File under “you couldnae make it up”.

      They do Capella, frequently 🙂

      I see the fireplace salesman is also talking up aggression, I suppose it feeds the brexiter’s make Britain ‘GREAT’ obsession.

    231. Nana says:

      Morning john boy, good advice.

      I asked a local councillor months ago re medicine supply and was told “not to worry”

    232. Capella says:

      Yes I noticed that Gavin Spoilt Brat Williamson is going to war – with Russia AND China. He must have shares in BAe Systems, Lockheed Martin, Ratheon etc etc.

    233. Cactus says:

      Let’s get Monday going Scotland…

      Lookin’ oot:
      49,320,438 ding-dongs

      iAye is imminent.

    234. CameronB Brodie says:

      re. Gavin Williamson. He’s gone full gunboat. Telt you that neo-liberalism is extremely relaxed about terrorism and that Tories are only a hop, skip and jump from full-on fascists.

    235. Dan says:

      geeo @ 1.26 mentioned population sizes.

      I understand in 1700 the populations of England and Scotland were approximately 5 million and 1 million respectively so England’s was 5 times larger.
      In the following 300 years both populations have grown but at differing rates.
      The populations now stand at approximately 55 million for England and 5.5 million for Scotland, so England now has a 10 times larger population.

      As Thomas Valentine @ 10.57 mentions, there is also the economic effect of spending in these areas to consider.
      More will have been spent in England over the years to develop its infrastructure to cope with that significantly increased population growth rate.

    236. Clootie says:

      Just having another look at the figures in the table. The Defence figure allocation seems very low! All the figures I have seen had that number at around 4.5 billion for Scotlands contribution. Has Trident been hidden elsewhere? The Accounting Correction “bucket” seems a very large figure to put under that label.

    237. Cubby says:

      Robert Peffers@8.33am

      Another great post. Keep them coming.

      As we entered into the union as equal partners we should leave on that basis. Westminster has deliberately managed down the population of Scotland – so why should any share be based on population.

      There are no divorce terms in the Treaty – no pre- nuptials were signed.

    238. Petra says:

      Thanks for the links Nana and isn’t it amazing that so many people out there are managing to delve in, glean information and inform us on such a wide range of subjects. One wonders how long this will last for when Westminster (and others) clamps down on such ”contributors” to the Internet. Clamp down as an example on this site.

      And now another step towards starving even more people to death. Surely there must be some law that we can use to take the politicians behind making these decisions to Court? The Brexit liars should also be rounded up and imprisoned, imo.

    239. Iain mhor says:

      @Meg merrilees

      A litre of Brent is around 30p a litre (I think) so Highland Spring water is already up on the deal at 50p a diddy wee bottle.
      In Germany bottled water is far more expensive than the beer, so they tend to drink the beer (and why not?) Which coincidentally can be purchased for around 50p, if you take pfand into account, because ironically it’s in a plastic bottle which is an oil byproduct and that makes your beer cheaper, but beer is mostly water, so err… adding hops & oil makes water cheaper? Well I suppose that’s why Navies kept their people going on beer and not manky water out the butts, because the beer kept better – Hence ‘Export Ales’ & ‘India Pale Ale’
      I seem to have wandered a bit!
      Anyway, Alexs Salmond & Neil proposed supplying England with water years ago, though cost and logistics prohibited it. But if tankers ship crude and when water becomes (already is) a more precious commodity, there is no reason it couldn’t be shipped internationally.
      Here’s an interesting piece from my archives.

    240. jezza says:

      Gavin Williamson on Sky News Making a speech about defence.

      To the sounds of “Rule Britannia” playing in the background.

      Little Englander wanker.

      Russia and China will be shaking in their boots,,,not!!!

    241. Cactus says:

      Here be an example of outstanding balance:

      Within 3 to 5 years is cool.

    242. Gerry says:

      @Robert Peffers

      Do you happen to know off hand what the % representation of Scottish MPs was after the 1707 union ?

    243. geeo says:

      Exactly Cubby.

      If you opened a business with someone on a legally equal partner status, then sold it later when a runaway success, you would split the assets 50/50.

      Now, unless the United Kingdom is actually trading insolvent, its assets are still MORE than its liabilities.

      Therefore it is pretty obvious that Scotland would be a net gain after the split of assets/debt.

      WM would be easier to deal with than we may think, as it may not bother Scots to tell WM to cash in all assets to split the value, as we are starting afresh as an independent country, and our economy would get a massive boost as we build our new infrastructure we need for our new reponsibilities, but it would sure as hell bother WM if they had to dismantle assets to pay off Scotland.

      In reality, they would negotiate in good faith, as the consequences of not doing so would be devastating for them.

      When rhetoric meets reality, reality wins.

    244. Petra says:

      @ Nana says at 10:04 am ”””

      Oh right, Nicola Sturgeon has been confiding in Mark McLaughlin of the Times, lol. Dream on Marky.

    245. galamcennalath says:

      CameronB Brodie says:

      He’s gone full gunboat. Telt you that neo-liberalism is extremely relaxed about terrorism and that Tories are only a hop, skip and jump from full-on fascists.

      Indeed. There has been a lot of focus around Brexit on far right ideas about society, economy, trade, business … however, no one should forget the far right’s predisposition for aggression and violent projection of power!

    246. Capella says:

      Gavin Spoilt Brat Williamson is not the Messiah. He’s a very naughty boy. Wait till those Chinese silent subs sneak up on his aircraft carrier.

    247. Fireproofjim says:

      Robert Peffers
      Don’t be rude – calling me brainwashed.
      I was only using a very rough example to confirm that we would be able to set up our defence system with a considerable amount of existing assets and not starting from scratch.
      I’m becoming tired of your self important comments. You seldom seem to answer without a put down.Usually starting with words like pish or rubbish whenever you think someone has made a comment which you disagree with. By all means disagree but behave in a more civilised manner.
      You don’t have a monopoly on wisdom although you obviously think you do.

    248. Cactus says:

      Being Monday ’19, that should mean the Norrie Hunter show will be on Indy Live Radio shortly, from 11am to 2pm…

      Monday, Wednesday and Fridays.

    249. Robert Kerr says:

      Two comments on medicines.

      One friend here has problems with alternative eye drops for glaucoma. Causing irritation and required visit to hospital specialist.

      Another friend in England has alternative medication for his epilepsy. Causes pain in ankles and feet which limits mobility.

      That is now.

      I strongly suggest that everyone reads their medication’s leaflet for information re location of manufacturer. If it is European then you may have supply difficulties.

    250. Ken500 says:

      Scotland has been depopulated by Westminster centrist policies. £Billions has been taken from Scotland illegally and secretly to fund London S/E. kept secret under the Official Secrets Act.

      Scotland loses £20Billion a year to Westminster governance and mismanagement.

      £1Billion Trident/Defence, £3Billion tax evasion, £5Billion which could be borrowed for growth in the economy, £4Bilion lost in Oil & Gas sector because of high Tory taxes. 40% since Jan 2016. Taxed at 62% when the price had fallen 75%. Fishing industry ruined through Westminster mismanagement. Discards throwing dead fish back. Instead of using bigger nets, like Norway. £4Billion on loan repayments on monies not borrowed or spent in Scotland. HS2/Hickley Point/Trident etc. Illegal wars, financial fraud and tax evasion has cost Scotland dear.

      Scotland raises £60Billion in tax revenues. The UK raises £628Billion. Scotland raises more pro rata.

      Brexit will ruin the Scottish/world economy. People are already being illegally deported from Scotland.

      The Tory/unionists total shambles. The lies they are telling. Now absolute nonsense about Russia and China. China 1.3Billion pop spend $288Billion on Defence. Russia 150Million pop spend €69Billion on Defence.

      US 280Million pop spend $611Billion on Defence (highest pro rata). Saudi Arabia 40Million pop spend $67Billion. They can’t afford it.

      Russia saved the West 11WW. 26Million Russians died. Since the 1990’s Gorbachev, Yeltsin and Putin. 150Million people have gained self determination and self government. (USSR). The Russian pop has halved. Now 150Million pop. Perestroika and Glasnost.

      Water is now being sold in cartons. People should take their own containers etc.

    251. Ken500 says:

      % MP representation 1707?

      Universal Suffrage 1928

      Catholics were not allowed as representatives/representation until 1861?

    252. Abulhaq says:

      Anyone who knows London quickly realises the place is a mega building site above and below ground. There is an abundance of corporate and state money keeping the city state functioning.
      We know Scotland contributes and we are told by reason of justification ought to as the ‘country’ benefits from a powerful and dynamic London on the world stage.
      The Brexit process has demonstrated that the British state is not quite the big player its citizens were accustomed to believe. There is panic in the house that things may well fall crumble and fall apart and that shoring up London is the only option.
      In this context, Scotland is simply another ‘regional’ milch cow.
      Scottish Unionism, the myth ridden, romantic purveyor of Anglo-Scottish ‘partnership’ is in its death throws. I expect the SNP leadership to get stuck in and put the old thing out of its misery, and that very soon.

    253. gus1940 says:

      I repeat my previous assertion that Gavin Williamson is the scariest member of our omnishambolic government.

      Staying on an armed forces theme – over the years I have watched many series covering the selection/training of various arms of The UK Military.

      One thing common to all said series was that there was no shortage of Scots amongst both instructors and candidates.

      However, last week I finished viewing the latest series on recruit training/selection for The Paras.

      Throughout the series I was unable to detect a single Scottish accent.

      While there may have been Scots present said present was carefully ignored.

      This is yet another example of our colonial masters campaign of giving the impression that Scots are of no significance in their precious union.

      Additionally there was a liberal sprinkling of anti-Russian nonsense.

    254. Kenny says:

      Petra says:
      11 February, 2019 at 10:17 am

      @ Nana says at 10:04 am ”””

      Re the above, I read the Times leader in Aldi’s this morning.
      NS was speaking to Christian Amanpour on CNN.
      It (hopefully) will be on CNN here tonight at 6.00 PM.
      She, Amanpour, has an hour slot.

    255. CameronB Brodie says:

      Neo-liberalism is a cancer that is consuming our body politic.

      The Discourse of Neoliberalism
      An Anatomy of a Powerful Idea

      Thirteen Things You Need to Know About Neoliberalism


    256. Colin Alexander says:

      Gerry says:
      11 February, 2019 at 10:13 am

      As a wee point of interest, Scotland already had MPs at WM before then, during the Commonwealth, when Cromwell’s New Model Army under Monck conquered Scotland and incorporated Scotland into the Commonwealth and Protectorate.

      First Protectorate Parliament 1654:

      Scottish Seats:


      6.5% of seats.

      2018 House of Commons:


      9% of seats.


      First Protectorate Parliament 1654: English MPs:

      85.5% of seats.

      2018 House of Commons: 82% of seats.

      Almost 400 years and not much has changed, except Scots MPs are now second-class EVEL MPs.

    257. Petra says:

      @ Breeks says at 2:06 am ….….”You (Petra) make me sick. How many SNP voters thought they were voting for this complete abdication of responsibility? 46 days to avert catastrophic disaster and we’re led by the timidity of mice. 46 days to Brexit deadline, empty handed with the same old rhetoric, no plan, no credibility…. I better double check Mary Lou MacDonald was definitely talking about Theresa May. Did we throw ashore a wildcat or a beached whale? Hmmm… let’s all talk about plankton….”

      I can see that I make you sick Breeks just as Nicola, with no plan and no credibility …. laughable, and the SNP make you sick too. The very people that are working their / our butts off attempting to do something ”constructive” to achieve Independence, unlike yourself who could easily qualify as being totally ”destructive” to the cause.

      This Brexit fiasco was to be ”clarified” last October. It’s not Nicola Sturgeon’s fault that it has dragged on for another four months with us still not knowing if a GE or EURef will be held, or even if Brexit will be cancelled, and until we do know one way or another Nicola Sturgeon can’t make a move. Do you think she’s happy about that? All she can do right now is continue to state that if a no CU / SM Brexit is going ahead she’ll give the Scots the opportunity to choose between the Union and Independence. That and asking for our help to increase support. A call that’s seemingly fallen on your deaf ears as you constantly run down the only people capable of getting us our Independence.

      Mary-Lou McDonald gave a brilliant speech …. as far as her supporters and we Yessers on this side of the North Channel are concerned. On the other hand she’s ”riled up”, to say the VERY least, around 50% of the population of Northern Ireland. When their time comes to seek reunification we’ll see absolute ”havoc” on a grand scale, no doubt. And just as a wee reminder, Mary-Lou McDonald is not the First Minister of Northern Ireland and is picking up a lucrative wage for doing absolutely NOUGHT right now. Great rhetoric versus working 24×7, having a plan and credibility. Take your pick.

      Nicola Sturgeon is First Minister of Scotland representing all Scots first and foremost. She’ll achieve Independence with the least amount of disruption in line with what most sensible, law-abiding people are looking for and I’ll opt for that approach.

      And please don’t come back with one of your convoluted ”sovereignty” posts. The bottom line, and you’ve been told often enough, is that we need a majority of Scots supporting independence to actually achieve it. We know it, the UN knows it and the EU knows it. ”It’s” not rocket science.

    258. Colin Alexander says:

      1707 First GB Parliament:

      total seats 558

      Scottish representation: 45

      total: 8%


      English representation: 486

      total: 87%

    259. Daisy Walker says:

      The International Crime Coordination Centre – the new Police unit that is now up and running to deal with crime post Brexit.

      Were any of the posts advertised and staffed up with Officers from Police Scotland?

      I really, suspect not.

      Normally positions for Departments/initiatives such as this recruit officers from all round the Police Forces in the UK on secondments.

      This is a really important question, that needs answered at Police Scotland, Scot Gov, (and if confirmed) WM level.


    260. Colin Alexander says:

      So, English representation in the Commons

      1654: 85.5%

      1707: 87%

      2018: 82%

      A union of equals? It never was and I doubt it ever will be.

    261. Colin Alexander says:

      Robert Peffers

      Continued English Parliament or new GB Parliament???

      Read this:

    262. Dr Jim says:

      Panic over folks Liam Fox has just signed a trade deal with Switzerland to move all your diamonds and your cash tariff free, so best get rummaging round in in your diamond box and get the best ones out ready for trading, and thank goodness you’ll be able to take all your spare cash over there too, I know I will

      And all Tariff free

    263. Dr Jim says:

      The Amanpour interview with Nicola Sturgeon:

      Everybody’s enjoying misinterpreting what was said and what was not said for their own agenda, so if you haven’t heard it Nicola Sturgeon did not say what the newspapers are reporting, the interviewer asked questions and mentioned time scales the FM did not mention time scales she in fact said the opposite stating clearly that she would not put time scales and that she would make an announcement shortly setting out her plans

      Newspapers tell lies, everybody should know that by now

    264. Colin Alexander says:


      I am not defending intemperate language towards anyone on Wings but,

      I think the point Breeks continually tries to explain is that independence is a red herring.

      In other words, the continual argument put forward in Wings and by the SNP, that Scottish politicians are completely helpless and can do nothing to stop Scotland’s abuses such as EVEL, Continuity Bill and Brexit etc, until a majority vote for independence, is completely and utterly wrong.

      Scotland’s people are sovereign. The Union did not end our sovereignty.

      Sovereign means ultimate power. Top dog. The boss. Phrase it how you will.

      We, the people of Scotland could legally stop Brexit, by saying No. It’s as simple as that.

      We already voted Remain: 63%, in a UK wide referendum. UK Govt then argue, ah it was about UK not Scotland.

      Scotland is the UK, a supposedly equal partner, and Scotland’s people are sovereign. So, if the boss said no, why is the boss being ignored?

      Ah but the sovereign people decided to remain part of the UK. They did in 2014 say the Colonialist. (Whether they would now is a different matter).

      Later, in 2016, they voted Remain in the EU.

      Ah, but if UK as a whole votes Leave, Scotland must leave, say the Colonials, despite Scotland voting to Remain in BOTH unions.

      Then the UK Govt offered N.I. a separate deal to effectively Remain. Also, there is already legal precendent for a EU member to be part in and part out of the EU: Denmark / Faroes.

      So, why is the SNP not enforcing our sovereignty right now? Why does there have to be a YES vote to independence or NOTHING, except SNP whinging about how unfair it all is?

      The SNP are as much responsible for Brexit as the UK Govt. Aye, it’s the UK Govt that are doing it but, the SNP could have taken legal action to stop it; could have taken democratic action to stop it: Hold a Scotland only advisory EU-Ref to stop it.

      The FM instead asked to play a role in facilitating Brexit. I regard that as ignoring the sovereign will of the people as much as the UK Govt has.

      The SNP fought all the way to the Supreme Court for their Named Person scheme that would have abused the human rights of children and families.

      They fought for the Sewel Convention.

      Fought for the Continuity Bill, over devolution again.

      When it comes to Brexit and Scotland’s ultimate sovereignty and defending Scotland’s future human rights and economic prosperity: Nothing but hot air from Mr Blackford and the FM.

      Nae wunner it’s a scunner.

    265. I don’t know if I’m breaching any copyright rules by doing this, but here is a Google translation of Der Freitag Ausgabe (Firday Issue) article by Zoe Beck mentioned in Stu’s tweet.

      “Brexit The biggest loss for Europe would be Scotland. The writer Zoë Beck with a declaration of love

      Zoë Beck | Issue 03/2019 ?

      “In general, all stereotypes are radically true”
      It was death that made my father and I travel to Scotland together. I was in shock when I suggested that I drive spontaneously in my little car, and he, who usually planned everything in advance months in advance, was also in shock, because he surprisingly said yes. For him it would be his first time in Scotland, so I packed some travel guides in his lap so he would not get bored in the passenger seat and at least be able to plan something. We went leisurely north through Cambridge and Durham, waved the frontier signs in the picturesque hills just outside the pretty ruined monastery of Jedburgh, found an overwhelmingly hospitable bed and breakfast in Callander, and set off for Loch Lomond and The Trossachs, no matter which Weather, main thing out, to the water, through the hills, out just.
      In the evening in the pub, my dad, son of an innkeeper, tried the various beers and talked shop with the man at the tap. From time to time he tried a whisky for my sake, but after three or four attempts, he asked, “Why should I drink something that smells like burned car tyres?” I was talking about Laphroaig, my favourite whisky, and I saw finally make him laugh. It was with great interest that he let our landlord explain how he got that perfect lawn at breakfast and, after visiting a distillery, his respect for whiskey had grown. He still did not want to drink it.
      There followed a couple of tourist wanderings through Edinburgh, and at some point, we were just standing between the somewhat absurd collection of monuments on Calton Hill, looking across the Firth of Forth over to Fife as the wind threatened to blow away, and eventually my dad said it all calm and satisfied: “So, now it’s fine again. Now we can go. “Since then, I believe that Scotland has magical powers. Or at least healing.
      For me it was not the first and certainly not the last time in Scotland. A few years later I rented a house in St Andrews, then an apartment in Edinburgh, and wrote over four years four novels that played there.
      It was probably the most pleasant thing about this country, how I was treated when I said what I did for a living. Nobody asked me if I was richly married or had inherited. Rather, I was surprised by the question of whether I had ever published something. Whoever writes is a writer. Fuck it, art is art. And storytelling and making music are part of the national identity.
      And then this warmth to strangers. In rural areas you greet on the street, smiles, says something friendly. Again and again I got into situations like this pub in Kirkcaldy, I just wanted to go to the bathroom after a walk, but then I stayed three hours, because I had somehow blabbered and – again – got the impression that completely Scotland passionately reads books and has at least three finished manuscripts per drawer in the drawer. True Scottish celebrates every year culturally the birthday of their national poet Robert Burns. Shakespeare would be jealous. Goethe anyway.
      Stories belong to Scottish everyday life such as whisky and bagpipes and golf, and of course all this is also touristy. In fact, all stereotypes are radically true. They have to be, because the tourism industry is very important to Scotland. And because it is extremely important to the Schott people themselves to uphold and show their national identity. They may be grudgingly united to Britain, but they are different from their southern neighbours. They have their own education system, their own church, their own national football team, their own laws, their own police, of course their own flag and unofficial national anthems, their own parliament for 20 years, and two national drinks that define the border again clearly: whisky ( without e!) and Irn-Bru. They fry about anything edible, they print their own banknotes. They are therefore far from being nationalists, which is very important to most people.
      While the cultural borderline to the south is a clear thing, during the referendum on Scotland’s independence in 2014, it became clear how divided the country is. The struggle of both camps for votes was bitter, the outcome 45 percent for yes, 55 for no. The country is split even further. Highlander and Lowlander, Glasgow and Edinburgh, Catholics and Protestants (which is continued in football clubs), poor and rich. Edinburgh, as a city in itself, is extremely contradictory, the Old Town winding and bleak, the New Town bright and austere in architecture. Jekyll and Hyde are really there, not London, and their inventor, Robert L. Stevenson, is also from the Scottish capital. In Edinburgh, I got lost in Greendykes at some point. About Greendykes is nothing in any tourist guide. Or at best a warning to avoid the area. The extent of poverty and government-sponsored neglect was, in positive terms, depressing. You know how to distinguish areas like these from the rest of the population. In both directions. There you do not notice that you are in the country of the beautiful mountains and Glens and Lochs. There you only realize decades of failed British social policy.
      This dense sea fog
      Scotland is then in many ways very British, even in the stark social differences, or the age-old discrimination that a white male upper class likes to maintain. In St Andrews, stinking gentlemen on the world’s oldest golf course beat their balls. The venerable golf club did not pick up women when I was still living there, it has recently been changed. With a certain glee I gladly watched as the gentlemen tried to do something meaningful with their irons despite the thickest fog. After all, a day on the Old Course costs a lot of money.
      The dense sea mist that sometimes lays over St Andrews has something extremely scary. He swallowed distant noises and intensified his own steps. He lets you see things, shadows and shapes that may not be there. After fifteen minutes in the fog, I was ready to believe every single fairy tale about pukkas and other mythical figures. When the sun came out and the sea shone, it was June or July, when the nights stay blue and do not turn black, it occurred to me, as my father had said some years before: “Now it’s all right again.”
      And I knew sure that this country has something magical.”

      I’d contest ‘they fry about anything edible’.

      Deep fried Paul Sweeney?
      Speaking as one who has ate almost anything in his lifetime, that would stick in the craw, even washed down with a malt.

      At least there are some ‘out there’ who have a notion that we Scots are European citizens.

    266. Liz g says:

      Hey Ken 500
      Good to see you posting again.
      Hope everything is ok with you and yours 🙂

    267. Cubby says:


      Two countries in the world allow clerics a role in law making – UK and Iran.

    268. mike cassidy says:

      gus1940 10.57

      I watched the episode which had the paras dropping in on the Latvia/Russia border.

      And having to hand in their mobiles

      because those fiendish Russian hackers would pick up their conversations with home

      and start sending them pictures of their familes in order to subvert their commitment to the military task at hand.

      The cunning swine!

      Also – funny how only the other side have the capability of practicing digital mayhem.

      As if our side is still struggling to deal with the tv remote control.

    269. mike cassidy says:

      Colin Alexander

      “The SNP fought all the way to the Supreme Court for their Named Person scheme that would have abused the human rights of children and families”

      Just in case you thought you shouldn’t ignore his posts.

    270. Cubby says:

      Only Westminster with its superb propaganda could convince the people of the UK that it is not only ok not to have a written constitution but it is a good thing that only super countries like the U.K. are in this position. Just more British Nationalist lies. What constituted the U.K.? – the Treaty of Union 1706/7 and that is written down and can be read.

      Of course nearly all countries of the world do have a written constitution. The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia does NOT have a written constitution.

      On discussion re a poll that discovered that in the U.K. large numbers of people do not think it is unusual for a country not to have a written constitution.

    271. Proud Cybernat says:

      “Just in case you thought you shouldn’t ignore his posts.”

      I missed that, Mike – ’cause I ignore his posts.

    272. Hamish100 says:

      Colin Alexander says:
      11 February, 2019 at 11:13 am
      1707 First GB Parliament:

      total seats 558

      Scottish representation: 45

      total: 8%


      English representation: 486

      total: 87%

      100% well to do Establishment who still had the general populace in the cleft of fear.

    273. Dr Jim says:

      The Internet is full of human excrement battling away hoping to undermine and abuse others or their beliefs, decent people don’t want them, they are not welcome yet they persist in pouring out hatred in all its forms intially by pretending to support the forum they post on but always making the same mistake by being unable to conceal their bitter agenda of hate by personalising the direction and object of that hate in their egotistical self important way

      And most of the time most of the people see them for what they are but to express that in words might see me banned from posting again thereby encouraging those very people even more so I leave it there in the full hope that everyone on this particular forum knows who and what these people are

      Sovereignty of a people is expressed in a democracy by voting for or against a proposition not by posting singular grievance on an Internet website in the hope of influencing others that that singular point of view is more valid or more factual than any other

      Our children are born in Hospitals, we expect the medical staff to take care of them
      We take our children to nursery and leave them expecting the staff there to take care of them
      We send our children to School expecting the Teachers to look after them
      What’s the difference then of people taking care of our children when they are not attending these institutions given that so much of the time parents are not taking care of their children anyway and happily handing them over to state responsibility and if or when something goes wrong they immediately complain about the state for NOT taking care of them

      The Named Person Scheme for lookin after our children is and was no different to any of those previously described and the people who are and were against it are political point scoring troublemakers for self agenda

    274. K1 says:

      Don’t start wi these lies again Colin about the named person act, you and I had a long conversation on here about your utter misrepresentation of the NP act. You’re a sneaky little git wi his own agenda, clear from the start for anyone paying attention when you first came btl after GE17.

      Cut it out.

    275. Colin Alexander says:

      mike cassidy


      “(b) are incompatible with the rights of children, young persons and parents under article 8 of the ECHR because they are not “in accordance with the law” as that article requires, (c) may in practice result in a disproportionate interference with the article 8 rights of many children, young persons and their parents, through the sharing of private information, and (d) are not incompatible with EU law in any way which goes beyond their incompatibility with article 8 of the ECHR.”


    276. CameronB Brodie says:

      mike cassidy
      That one gets a big swerve from me now, so thanks for reminding me what a twister he is. 😉

    277. maxxmacc says:

      We need to keep it simple. Norway now has the largest state fund in the world (even more than China) due to their proper management of their oil. It now stands at over 1 Trillion Dollars which equates to over $200,000 per citizen.

      End. Of Debate. With. Any. Unionist.

    278. GORDON FORREST says:

      Quite easilly sorted refuse point blank to co operate or acknowledge Gers unless there is also government expenditure report similar to Gers for Northern Ireland which must include the bri sorry payment to the tory puppets in the dup, Wales, each of the english regions and of course London which must include Thames link,cross rail, hs2 and all the other projects which are “in the public good”

    279. Colin Alexander says:

      Scot Govt record in court cases:

      Salmond case – lost: Court of Session

      Continuity Bill – lost: UK Supreme Court

      Gina Miller case / Eu case – lost: UK Supreme Court. (Gina Miller won her part of the case that MPs should decide on Art 50, the Scot Govt lost their Sewel Convention argument).

      Named Person Bill – lost: UK Supreme Court

      It shows the SNP are not shy of fighting THEIR devolution / Scot Govt corner in the courts with OUR money. Even when they stand a good chance of losing.

      Why won’t they challenge UK Parliament sovereignty v Scotland’s people’s sovereignty at court?

      Scot Govt aren’t afraid to lose. Why won’t they try to win?


      As for the Named Person Scheme. I fully accept it was well intentioned. We all want Children’s safety and welfare protected.

      But children also have human rights that should be respected. You cannot abuse children’s human rights, or break the law, even though the intention was noble. The Scot Govt were repeatedly warned the data sharing part of the NP was legally mince and wouldn’t listen, like some Wingers.

    280. Colin Alexander says:


      The legal ruling of the UK Supreme Court, a ruling accepted by the Scot Govt:

      “may in practice result in a disproportionate interference with the article 8 rights of many children, young persons and their parents, through the sharing of private information”

    281. Petra says:

      Nana thanks for the clarifying (Nicola says we’ll be Independent in 5 years time) link at 10:52am. It looks as though the MSM are twisting the facts again, no doubt to generate discordancy.

      Kenny (11:04 am) I wonder if the interview that you mention is the same one that Nana has posted or is there another?


      @ Colin Alexander says at 11:59 am …. ”Petra I am not defending intemperate language towards anyone on Wings but, I think the point Breeks continually tries to explain is that independence is a red herring.”…

      Colin I FULLY understand, ”the point that Breeks is continually trying to explain”, however I don’t agree with him and actually see his ”sovereignty red herring” as a means of trying to discredit Nicola Sturgeon / the SNP. If one is of the same frame of mind as myself, you then have to go on and ask yourself why. Why would he want to discredit them?

      Nor do I agree with most, if not all, of what you go on to say in your post Colin, such as in relation to the Named Person Scheme. Once again we’ve got someone on here lying through their teeth in an attempt to besmirch the SNP. And you know that you’re lying Colin because you’ve covered this very subject intensively on here before.

    282. Colin Alexander says:

      CameronB Brodie

      Scroll past my comments.

      That’s fine by me. I also scroll past your psycho-babble theses as I find them boring nonsense.

    283. Cubby says:

      An example of an hypocrite is someone who says they care about the environment but goes around dropping litter everywhere.

      Similarly, posters on Wings who complain about other posters spats but are not averse to having their own spats.

    284. Old Pete says:

      If we are expected to wait three years for the new independence referendum, then it will never happen.
      The UK governors will never allow it and we will have missed a golden opportunity.
      Might have been better to go for it when we had 56 MPs and 50% of the vote?
      Still fingers crossed I see Scottish independence before I die.

    285. sinky says:

      It seems a second member of the Orange Order asked a question attacking the SNP on Thursday’s Question Time this time Mary Duckett [BEM] Secretary Secretary to the Ladies Orange Association of Scotland

      More on Mentorn, Question Time and UKIP

    286. CameronB Brodie says:

      Folks, the law is normatively biased, it favours the culture that it originates from. What culture shaped the UK Supreme Court and what embedded cultural bias does that imply?

      Here’s some critical legal thinking on how cultural bias in the law can be tackled.

      The Transformation or Reconstitution of Europe
      The Critical Legal Studies Perspective on the Role of the Courts in the European Union

      About The Transformation or Reconstitution of Europe

      It is generally understood that EU law as interpreted by the ECJ has not merely reconstituted the national legal matrix at the supranational level, but has also transformed Europe and shaken the well-established, often formalist, ways of thinking about law in the Member States. This innovative new study seeks to examine such a narrative through the lens of the American critical legal studies (CLS) perspective.

      The introduction explains how the editors understand CLS and why its methodology is relevant in the European context. Part II examines whether and how judges embed policy choices or even ideologies in their decisions, and how to detect them. Part III assesses how the ECJ acts to ensure the legitimacy of its decisions, whether it resists implementing political ideologies, what the ideology of European integration is, and how the selection of judges influences these issues. Part IV uses the critical perspective to examine some substantive parts of EU law, rules on internal and external movement, and the European arrest warrant. It seeks to determine whether the role of the ECJ has really been transformative and whether that transformation is reversible. Part V considers the role of academics in shaping the narratives of EU integration.

    287. HandandShrimp says:


      Would not be fair to include the ones they won too?

      Minimum pricing


      EU ruling that A50 can be withdrawn

      It is a point that the named person bill drew overall praise on intent from the Supreme Court and that the ruling highlighted the area that needs to be tightened up on data protection. Which they are doing as far as I recall…so a delayed but improved bill rather than a defeated one.

      The main opponents of the Named Persons bill don’t care about data protection. That is just a convenient fig leaf. They are largely “religious” and/or libertarian groups. Exactly the sort of organisations and institutions that have left a trail of abuse and despair over the last century or more

    288. Nana says:

      @Petra, that is the FM interview with Amanpour. I posted it last week after it appeared online.

      While I’m here, trade negs not going too well

      South Korea has joined Japan in saying it won’t roll over EU deals to the UK on the same terms because it can extract a better deal for them due to the UK’s WEAKENED POSITION. Told you! The world isn’t going to give the UK what it wants, it’s going to pick the #brexit bones.

      Not great for UK reputation as stable place to do global business: Lead story on Japan’s main business daily newspaper (Nikkei) – UK’s free trade agreements will drop from 70% of trade to <10% if no deal Brexit.

      article in Japanese, use translate

    289. johnj says:

      Excellent Rev. But the trouble is getting your average Unionist thicko to even read it, never mind to understand it.

    290. CameronB Brodie says:

      What’s that Colin, ‘psycho-babble nonsense’. Each to their own I suppose. That said, you’re nothing but a twister who’s has now exhausted their yoonstream potentiality.

      Liberal Rights and Critical Legal Theory

    291. Colin Alexander says:


      Aye, happy to agree the Scot Govt and Scots politicians (not the Scot Govt) won cases too.

      So, I agree with all your sensible post up until imputing motives. Like saying politicians cause wars, so the SNP must be bad cos they are politicians, when credit to the SNP again, they are the ones who voted AGAINST the Iraq War in 2003 and have repeatedly voted against the use of military force to “solve” problems for which they again deserve credit.

      But my main point is, the Scot Govt aren’t shy of legal action.

      I wish they would challenge Brexit via Scottish Sovereignty and the Union abuses via Scottish sovereignty in court.

      Challenge the whole basis of the Union Treaty, legally, not just politically.

      Especially when the SNP play it by UK Govt rules, winner takes all referendums, when the media, esp BBC, are all in favour of the UK Govt / Union and churning out biased propaganda so YES/ SNP / Scot Govt will always be at a severe disadvantage in any referendum.

    292. Thepnr says:

      Independence supporters need not fear another referendum and that’s why Unionists bleat so much about “there’s no appetite for another referendum, nobody want’s one, too divisive”.

      They fear a second referendum because they fear losing and they are right to be feart, as next time Scotland will gran Independence with both hands and a large majority.

    293. Why does Scotland accept the legality of the Supreme Court if Scottish law is protected under the 1707union and if the Scottish people are sovereign then why was this kangaroo court not challenged in U.N. Courts ???

    294. Gerry says:

      @Blair I would not be surprised if that is where this ends up, after indyref2. Especially if it’s held without a S30.

    295. Jack Murphy says:

      Thankyou Nana for all your links at 7:20am approx.

      The British Broadcasting Corporation delivering news to Scotland.

      In my opinion,this item with video clips deserves a second airing for those of us in a hurry.


    296. Robert Peffers says:

      @yesindyref2 says: 10 February, 2019 at 11:55 pm:

      ” … The thing about QE is that most people you talk to about MMT will have some idea about QE and a bit of how it works.”

      I’ll tell you something about MMT, yesindyref2.

      An average TMITS wonders what MMT is. TMITS will Google, “MMT”, and usually the first result that Google returns begins thus:-

      “Modern Monetary Theory (MMT or Modern Money Theory) is a heterodox macroeconomic theory that describes the currency as a public monopoly and unemployment as the evidence that a currency monopolist is restricting the supply of the financial assets needed to pay taxes and satisfy savings desires.”

      The TMITS immediately switches his brain into neutral as the TMITS’s head hurts as he was never schooled to understand jargon.

      Oh! By the way – “TMITS”, is Jargon for The Man In The Street – one man’s jargon is everyone else’s foreign language.

      To put that in another way – it isn’t plain and simple English. It has one purpose, and one purpose only, to confuse The Man In The Street.

      Just in case anyone wondered the list of synonyms for, “heterodox”, is extensive and includes these few synonyms:- unorthodox, heretical, dissenting, dissident, blasphemes, nonconformist, apostate, freethinking, iconoclastic, schismatic, rebellious, renegade, separatist, sectarian, revisionist.

      Yes! You guessed it the word, “heterodox”, is, would you believe JARGON. Oh! And BTW what has QE, (Queen Elizabeth), got to do with it? Jargon is bad enough without shorthand jargon being added.

    297. Tatu3 says:

      Old Pete @ 2pm
      Nicola Sturgeon did not say we have to wait 3 years or 5 years.
      She was asked if she thought Scotland would be an independent country in the EU within 3-5 years? She said yes.
      Completely different.

    298. Shinty says:

      Capella says:
      11 February, 2019 at 9:43 am
      “Yes I noticed that Gavin Spoilt Brat Williamson is going to war – with Russia AND China. He must have shares in BAe Systems, Lockheed Martin, Ratheon etc etc.”

      And of course now gearing together with the US to invade Venezuela. Nothing like good old warmongering to quell the natives. (Thatcher and Falklands come to mind)

    299. Colin Alexander says:

      “Why does Scotland accept the legality of the Supreme Court if Scottish law is protected under the 1707union and if the Scottish people are sovereign then why was this kangaroo court not challenged in U.N. Courts ???”

      Prior to the Supreme Court it was Law Lords in the HoL acting as highest court of appeal in CIVIL law.

      The SC replaced them in this function but, a precedent had been set.

      Which begs the question: why did Scotland accept Law Lords in the HoL deciding Scots Law civil cases?

    300. robbo says:

      I would like to thank the person above who gave the link to John Jappy
      Think it was on here i found it .?

      Good old boy who was in the know. Thank goodness we had the likes of him and now our Rev Stu continuing the good work.

      Now its gonnae take me weeks to read the rest of John Jappy blogs .

    301. Dr Jim says:

      The willingness to accept one countries law over another countries law does not make a law legal or correct, it makes it superior at the time of question, in no way is law of any country ever immutable, but the willingness to accept law made by others as more important or more *legal* says all about the agenda of the petitioners acceptance

      All law is subjective to argument at all times as any reasonable and intelligent person knows it to be or laws made only once would stand for all time and that would be the law to which the powerful who created that law would always refer

      Endless examples could be given of bad law, reformed law, rewritten law or indeed law completely struck from record as complete gibberish law

      The UK *Law* has a litany of such laws and is littered with fine examples of such gibberish, at the moment the UK is powerful, one day that will not be so, even now EU law is accepted as superior which is one of the reasons the once more powerful UK wish to exit the EU in order to exercise their once more powerful control of their own law over a smaller area

      The words big fish in an ever decreasing small pond spring to mind

      An Independent Scotland would be much better placed as a small fish in an ocean of plankton eaters than in a garden pond with a shark

    302. Robert Peffers says:

      @yesindyref2 says: 11 February, 2019 at 12:03 am:

      ” … If it’s soon enough and I hope it is, it could be T23s, maybe a bit stripped down of sensitive kit. We could put our own on.”

      You’re really, really brainwashed, yesndyref2.

      You have just exposed to everyone that you believe Scotland is leaving,”The rUnited Kingdom£, and that you believe Scotland has no right to, “The rUnited Kingdom’s”, warfare equipment.

      However that view betrays the facts that the United Kingdom is a bipartite, (two partner), union of two equally sovereign kingdoms and, just like the currency known as The Pound Sterling, it as much belongs to the Scottish Kingdom as it does to the English kingdom and, by the way, Westminster is the United Kingdom government and not the Parliament of the Kingdom of England. No parliament of either the country or kingdom of England has legally existed since 30 April 1707.

      Got it now? Westminster ends as the United Kingdom Parliament on independence day and the Kingdom of England and the Kingdom of Scotland both become independent.

      Shame that the Kingdom of England hasn’t got a legally elected parliament – but they should have thought about the implications of that when Westminster assumed itself to be the de facto Parliament of England.

      Facts are chiels whit willna ding.

    303. Ghillie says:

      Cactus @ 12.51 pm (yesterday)

      ‘FREE our potential’ 🙂

      Hey there Cactus! I think you’ve just coined a new Indy slogan =)


    304. Dr Jim says:

      @Tatu3 2.41pm

      Exactly right sir

      Some people are still believing what they hear on TV or read in newspapers

      The FM said the same as she has always said on the subject
      she’s telling nobody nothing until she decides, the press are just lying and making mischief

      We’ll know when she tells us, then it will be all over the press and live on the TV so folk will hear exactly what she says and not what they invent she said

    305. CameronB Brodie says:

      Why are Critical Legal Studies and Critical Legal Theory important in the evolution of legal doctrine?


      ….For the past three-quarters of a century, cases such as these have been used to argue that Anglo-American law is indeterminate; that the rules of law do not compel judges to decide cases one way rather than another. This “indeterminacy argument,” which was originally developed by the legal realists in the 1920s and 30s, was famously revived and updated in the 1980s by the adherents of the Critical Legal Studies movement (hereinafter “Crits”) to serve as the spearhead of their crusade against legal liberalism.

      The Crits employed this argument to claim that the liberal concept of the rule of law was a myth designed to maintain the illegitimate domination of society by the economically and politically powerful.6 This contention touched off a decade-long jurisprudential wrangle between the Crits and more traditional legal scholars regarding the nature and extent of legal indeterminacy. Throughout the 1980s and early 1990s, so much ink was spilled on this topic that today-only eighteen years after the First Conference on Critical Legal Studies-the dispute over the indeterminacy argument, and to some extent, the Crits themselves, are regarded as pass6.

      I think this is unfortunate because I believe that in the midst of the struggle over the cogency of the indeterminacy argument, the implications it holds for our future jurisprudential endeavors have been overlooked. Accordingly, I would like to revisit the subject, not to reprise the debate over whether the indeterminacy argument is in fact correct, but to examine what follows from the assumption that it is. In this article, I argue that the use the Crits
      make of the indeterminacy argument suggests that they have missed its essential point. I also contend that the indeterminacy argument recommends not the radical political action advocated by the Crits, but rather the thoroughly pragmatic approach to the law urged by the realists over half a century ago.

      Thus, I suggest that, correctly understood, the indeterminacy argument leads us not in the direction the Crits would take us, but back to the unfinished project of the legal realists. I further suggest that the public choice scholars represent a group of theorists who are currently pursuing this project, and thus that it is they, rather than the Crits, who are truly following the line of analysis the indeterminacy argument recommends. Finally, I suggest that given the knowledge that these scholars and earlier classical liberal economists have developed, the indeterminacy argument may afford as much support to the classical liberal agenda as it does to the Critical one.

    306. Legerwood says:

      Colin Alexander says:
      11 February, 2019 at 2:45 pm

      Because the treaty of Union is ‘silent’ on the subject of Scots Civil Law.

    307. Dr Jim says:

      Westminster has always perpetrated the myth that they are the UK and Scotland is a part of it when indeed Scotland is the other partner in the creation of the UK without whom a UK wouldn’t have existed

      Because of the Westminster 300 year insistence and self propaganda of its importance it’s easy for people to forget that or in many cases to even have known that

      In a post Scotland Independent world I have no doubt that Westminster will most likely wish to continue calling themselves the UK but that may well be subject to legal objection by a post Independent Scottish government and indeed others

      If as we suspect and Northern Ireland sues for reunification and that is accepted by Dublin and Scotland becomes Independent it’s hard to see how Westminster will basically have a leg to stand on in retaining such a title

      Perhaps the UK of E&W which when you see written down does sound a lot like *Eeow*

      Perhaps not

    308. Robert Peffers says:

      @Capella says: 11 February, 2019 at 9:05 am:

      ” … Highland Spring are owned by an Arab sheikh. Connoisseurs of cool fresh water. They sponsor tennis matches.”

      Aye! Capella, but do those Arab sheikhs realise that as the people of Scotland are all legally sovereign and thus have legal right to roam and might, if they get annoyed by landowners use their legal right to roam all over their water catchment area and pee in the water?

    309. galamcennalath says:

      A thread worth reading …

      So called think tanks and so called professionals/experts are rarely what the media claim them to be. Journalist can use google, we know because they can use it to rake muck. But somehow they are incapable of checking credibility and vested interests. They facilitate ordinary people having their views and opinions manipulated by ‘false prophets’, or should just be ‘profits’.

      The media in the UK are complicit in causing the mess everything is currently appears to be in. They never call out the people/organisations which need calling out!

      I don’t believe it was always so. TV props like World in Action, Dispatches, Panorama even, plus high literacy newspapers used to investigate and expose. Not now.

    310. Lenny Hartley says:

      Old Pete, the FM was asked as stated above if she thought Scotland would be Independent in 3 to 5 years, she said yes that means she thinks there will be a referendum within 1-1/2 years or less as we wont be Independent immediately after a succesful indy ref, the white paper for Indy Ref1 suggested 18 months to do the divorce.

    311. Thepnr says:

      This is really good as a fantasy! Gavin Williamson has some brilliant ideas that will make Britain Great again hahaha.

      The UK would “develop swarm squadrons of network-enabled drones capable of confusing and overwhelming enemy air defences”, Williamson said, and he promised to have them “ready to be deployed by the end of this year”…

      Williamson announced the MoD would spend £65m “to improve offensive cyber” – hiring extra hackers who could target foreign networks. He also highlighted plans to buy “pioneering robotic fighting” vehicles, such as self-driving tanks…

      In a speech designed to bolster his position on the Tory party’s right, he added: “We should be the nation that people turn to when the world needs leadership.”

      Crazy mad mental gobshites.

    312. ronnie anderson says:

      Robert Peffers noo that post at 3.35 might need some explaining Robert LoL

    313. Robert Peffers says:

      @Dan says: 11 February, 2019 at 9:52 am:

      ” … The populations now stand at approximately 55 million for England and 5.5 million for Scotland, so England now has a 10 times larger population.”

      Whoa! There! Dan. Your sums are all wrong – or you are applying them wrongly.

      The Union is between The Kingdoms of England and Scotland but only Scotland is both a kingdom and a country. The Kingdom of England currently includes Wales and Northern Ireland but the Kingdom of England that signed the treaty of Union included the country of Wales an all of the country of Ireland.

      What Westminster legally becomes post the union disuniting is the Kingdom of England – not either an rUnited Kingdom nor the country of England. The Status Quo Ante is a return to the Kingdom of England that signed the Treaty of Union but obviously minus the republic of Ireland.

      Anyway, on 30 April 1707 the Parliament of the Kingdom of England permanently put itself into recession. On 30 April 1707 the Parliament of the country/kingdom of Scotland was only prorogued.

      Holyrood was not opened as a new parliament – Winnie Ewing actually legally reconvened the old Scottish parliament:-

      Holyrood is legally the prorogued parliament reconvened – Westminster was NOT reconvened it was the birth of a United Kingdom Parliament – otherwise to would have become the real reconvened parliament of the Kingdom of England amd thus Not the United Kingdom parliament.

      Quite simply if the union disunites the United Kingdom and its parliament end and there has been no such parliament as the Kingdom of England parliament since April 1707.

      This has never been contested by Westminster they just simply always speak as if Westminster is the parliament of England.

    314. Pete Barton says:

      @Robbo 2:53pm..

      I put a suggestion last night that john jappy’s site is still there.

      Thanks for linking it, I’ll do the same now and spend a night leafing through his stuff!

      A man of some honour.

      Think Clive Ponting..Craig Murray..
      and many others.

    315. Sarah says:

      O/T we have been forgetting in our chat about Brexit, when we say NI and Scotland could have a different relationship with the EU from England and Wales, and Tories and Labour squeal in horror at the mere idea, that they already live very happily [as do their savings no doubt] with the Isle of Man not being in EU nor EEA.

      And the IoM is allowed to trade without non-EU tariffs, per Wikipedia, under Protocol 3. Will any of this change if WExit or Brexit occur? If not, then IoM looks a good place to relocate ones HQ to. Is the share value of Peel Ports rising as I type given that their port facilities in Scotland may now become very useful?

      The same applies to Jersey and Guernsey in that they voluntarily abide by EU regs but are not part of it.

      So why the hysteria from Westminster and the MSM about Scotland and NI? I suspect it is something to do with Scotland’s assets…

    316. Dr Jim says:

      Post Scottish Independence the Kingdom of E&W threatens the country of Scotland of withdrawal of trade, they will no longer require our Electricity,Water,Fish,Oil,Gas,Whisky,Gin,
      Access to passage through our waters or passage over our airspace, do they really think ASDA TESCO MORRISONS SAINSBURYS are all going to close their supermarkets in Scotland just because

      Is there anyone, anyone, naive enough to fall for such unadulterated drivel as what pours out of these morons mouths

      Scotland will be in the European Union so to threaten a member state of the EU with such nonsense would see the K of E&W slapped with sanctions by 28 countries and who knows by how many other countries for its vindictive belligerant rhetoric and stupidity

    317. yesindyref2 says:

      Nicola Sturgeon was misrepresented, including by the article in The National. She answered a question “Do you think Scotland wull be independent in the next 3 to 5 years” and she answered “I think so”.

      Let’s run some other versions of that question.

      Do you think Scotland will be independent within 10 years? “I think so”.

      within 5 years “I think so”
      within 3 years “I think so”
      within 2 years “I think so”
      within 18 months “I’d like to think so”.

    318. yesindyref2 says:

      I really can’t stand sneaky unionists who sneakily quote out of context to make their sneaky point by sneakiness and deception. That quote is preceded by this:

      106. In summary, we conclude that the information-sharing provisions of Part 4 of the Act

      It’s the information-sharing provisions the UKSC objected to. Full quote:

      106. In summary, we conclude that the information-sharing provisions of Part 4 of the Act (a) do not relate to reserved matters, namely the subject matter of the DPA and the Directive, (b) are incompatible with the rights of children, young persons and parents under article 8 of the ECHR because they are not “in accordance with the law” as that article requires, (c) may in practice result in a disproportionate interference with the article 8 rights of many children, young persons and their parents, through the sharing of private information, and (d) are not incompatible with EU law in any way which goes beyond their incompatibility with article 8 of the ECHR. We are satisfied that it is not possible to remedy this defect by reading down the provisions under section 101 of the Scotland Act 1998. Conclusion (b) therefore means that the information-sharing provisions of Part 4 of the Act are not within the legislative competence of the Scottish Parliament.

      And I’m not even a fan of the Named Person thing, thank God my kids are grown up past it, but I am a fan of truth and outing sneaky deceptive unionist crud.

    319. fillofficer says:

      that rentboy link you posted on 7th
      was utter dynamite
      conspiracy theorists dream
      cant get it out of my head
      so many wheels within wheels

    320. yesindyref2 says:

      @Robert Peffers “The TMITS immediately switches his brain into neutral as the TMITS’s head hurts as he was never schooled to understand jargon.

      Laughed my little cotton socks off 🙂

      Yes indeed that’s the problem with MMT nobody can out it in simple language interested people can understand.

      That’s the problem with heterodoxical analogously amalgamated interspertial collectivisms of metaphorphic graphological vacuousnesses.

      “Yes, but what’s all that about then Ted?”.

    321. Colin Alexander says:


      Thank you for repeating the legal ruling.

      If you read more of it, it’s because the Scot Govt regarded Wellbeing as the threshhold to share information about children and families without their consent.

      But, as the Lords examined, wellbeing has no legal definition, which would have led to the situation where private information was shared for “wellbeing” which can be interepreted very widely.

      In effect, ANYTHING could be considered relevant to wellbeing.

      So, any information could be shared. Not only about the children but family too, when it’s not child protection or child welfare.

    322. jezza says:

      After Independence Scotland will undergo major infrastructure projects.

      I would like to see the whole of Scotland opened up for business, not just the heavily populated Central Belt.

      Many parts of Scotland still use single track roads to access their town or village. The whole west coast needs major works done to it. Better access attracts inward investment.

      Our ports are needing modernised, more rail infrastructure.

      The work needing done is endless. This creates jobs, that creates taxes, that can be put back into things like health and education.

      Independence should be an exciting prospect, it’s a pity there are some among us whole still see the Union as the better option.

    323. ScottieDog says:

      Neocon economics was framed in a way to fool TMITS though Robert.
      Mrs Thatxher told TWITS (the woman in the street) that the running of a nation was just like the running of a household and the TWITS and TMITS have believed it ever since.

      George Lakof would approve of how powerful that framing is.

      So for TMITS/TWITS out there…..

      A country with its own currency and central bank creates money via computer. There’s no limit to the amount of digits that computer can type up.
      There is a physical limit though – the amount of resources available. If you keep typing numbers in the computer to create more money when the resources are all in use, the price of the resources goes up and up and so you need to stop spending with your keyboard!

      Here’s yanis varoufakis destroying the neocon fallacy in 60secs…

      It’s not that it’s complicated it’s that for the past 40years TMITS and TWITS have been brainwashed.

    324. yesindyref2 says:

      @Robert Peffers says: at 2:59 pm “You’re really, really brainwashed, yesndyref2.

      Actually no Robert, for one point I’m the one likes to quote Michael Forsyth (he was angry because The Earl of Mar and Kellie argued with him about the Scottish Crown Estate -which was put together over many hundreds of years, developed particularly by King James IV, and one of the things that Scotland brought to the union – he says)

      Therefore, it is illiterate as well as misleading to suggest that there would still be a United Kingdom. If Scotland were to leave the United Kingdom, the United Kingdom would cease to exist.

      As for the defence stuff, I take a different view, one of pragmatism. But perhaps more importantly, we really don’t need their stuff which is inherently expensive to design, build, run, maintain and upgrade, we’d be better with our own Defence Review and implementation of, to suit our needs not what were the UK’s needs – at half the relative cost.

      GTH 🙂

    325. yesindyref2 says:

      Put it another way for defence, what iScotland needs is bangs for bucks. Or Scots pounds anyway.

      (GTH = Glad To Help).

    326. Essexexile says:

      Gavin Williamson. Just sounds like the sort of under achieving, low grade pillock you find in any payroll / HR department.
      ‘Ach, they’ve fucked up ma wages again this month. That Gavin Williamson in payroll is such a useless fuckin’ tube’

    327. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      RE: John Jappy. is archived at the Internet Archive. It can be found at:-*/

      I’ve just archived another one of his:-

      I may archive some more of his Scottish ones when I have the time.

    328. yesindyref2 says:

      Thank you for repeating the legal ruling

      I didn’t repeat the ruling, I quoted it in full because you only sneakily selected the sneaky bit which suited your sneaky agenda, to sneakily make it look like it was what everyone would think of as “human rights”, rather than what it actaully was, a data issue.

      You are a sheet of glass and I see right through you.

    329. ScottieDog says:

      “Yes indeed that’s the problem with MMT nobody can out it in simple language interested people can understand.”

      Weird I spoke to 3 snp branches and everyone seemed to get it,

    330. yesindyref2 says:

      You’re probably about the best advocate for MMT because you try to put it in words us plebs can understand, rather than in a whole load of convoluted self-important waffle designed to impress but not educate or communicate. It needs more like you.

    331. jezza says:

      Re infrastructure,

      As has been mentioned before on here, why not build a tunnel similar to the Channel Tunnel, between Gourock and Dunoon???

      It would open up that whole peninsula.

      Think big and big things will happen.

    332. CameronB Brodie says:

      He’s a busted flush. I wonder what his motives are? Financial, ideological or pathological?

    333. yesindyref2 says:

      Mmm, if it’s 3 branches you spoke to, get on your bike and speak to the rest of them 🙂

      Anyways having got RR3 to work again and found my saved game from 2016, I’ve connected Inverness and it’s time to build up some profits. Thurso next.

    334. yesindyref2 says:

      YES 😎

    335. Legerwood says:

      yesindyref2 @ 5.24 PM

      You could/should also have quoted Para 91 (see below) of the judgement which stated the legislation was ‘legitimate and benign’. It was the issue of information sharing that caused the problem because it was not compatible with current Data Protection legislation. Importantly the Supreme Court did not rule out the scheme altogether but gave the SG the opportunity to address the information sharing issue and, if accepted by the Supreme Court, implement the NP Scheme.

      What I cannot understand is why the Rape Clause has never been challenged on the issue that it invades the child’s right to privacy because the form the mother fills in to claim the benefit requires her to name the child.

      Para 91 states:
      “”91. As to the first of those questions, it can be accepted, focusing on the legislation itself rather than on individual cases dealt with under the legislation, that Part 4 of the 2014 Act pursues legitimate aims. The public interest in the flourishing of children is obvious. The aim of the Act, which is unquestionably legitimate and benign, is the promotion and safeguarding of the wellbeing of children and young persons. As the Dean of Faculty submitted, the policy of promoting better outcomes for individual children and families is not inconsistent with the primary responsibility of parents to promote the wellbeing of their children. Improving access to, and the coordination of, public services which can assist the promotion of a child’s wellbeing are legitimate objectives which are sufficiently important to justify some limitation on the right to respect for private and family life.””

    336. geeo says:

      Fairly interesting Article on the politics on both sides of the Irish border and the relationships between parties on all sides.

    337. Les Wilson says:

      Yeah, pooling and sharing, ONE, of the biggest cons from the Westminster treasury. Every penny they can steal from Scotland they sure will, and do!
      Get this so called “Union” gone folks.

    338. gus1940 says:

      Re last week’s BBC Scotland QT pilot does anybody know the make-up of the oanel and who was in the chair?

    339. mike cassidy says:

      For those posting about Mentorn Media and Nicolai Gentchev.

      The old left-to-right path there.

      But was he a plant or just seduced by the bright lights.

      The right-wing were certainly suspicious early on.

    340. Colin Alexander says:


      Here you go indy, with no childish insulting retorts to accompany it:

      “Guide on Article 8 of the European Convention on Human Rights

      “Right to respect for private and family life, home and correspondence”

      So, The Scot Govt attempted to lower the legal threshold for data sharing without consent from “risk of significant harm”, which is legally defined and is the law to protect children’s safety or welfare, to “wellbeing” which isn’t legally defined.

      Which meant if schools etc were collecting and sharing “wellbeing” information without consent, they risked breaching privacy which can also breach Art.8.

      Critics pointed out that that would create distrust and suspicion so would lead to less voluntary data sharing, which could in turn lead to MORE risks to children’s welfare.

      Especially, if the Scot Govt had faced paying £millions in damages for breach of Art.8 from thousands of angry children and families whose privacy may have been breached that could have been spent on promoting child welfare.

    341. mike cassidy says:

      gus1940 6.13

      I presume you mean the pilot for the new station.

      The chair was Billy Mitchell

      The panel was Billy Mitchell, Billy Mitchell, Billy Mitchell, Billy Mitchell and Stuart Campbell.

      Just joking about that last one!

    342. Andy says:

      Re Infrastructure: I have always thought that there is a whole west coast which is underpopulated and underused. A previous poster suggested a Gourock – Dunoon link. Why stop there? A modern dual carriageway following on from that link right up the west coast across Loch Fyne and onward via bridges/tunnels would open up a neglected corner of the country to massive investment and repopulation. The same applies to railways.

      The population of Scotland could be doubled and there would still be tons of space for everybody without destroying our landscape and heritage. Dream big!

    343. Liz g says:

      Andy @ 6.49
      Yes Andy Scotland could quite comfortably double it’s population AKA it’s Tax Base…
      But Westminster seem to want it depopulated especially the West Coast…can’t think why…. Are the Subs that big?
      Or would a larger population in that area make them illegal to have there?
      Tis a puzzle!
      But joking aside yes we could aim big…But the Neuks have to go to do it…

    344. Still Positive says:

      And don’t forget if we rejoin the EU we will get funds to help restructure.

      An added bonus may be that some of our graduates forced to go to London to secure a decent job may come home like my eldest son and his family.

    345. starlaw says:

      Andy says 6;49

      Agree’d and a Motorway from Stranraer to East coast with a new terminal Seaport. would open up the whole South East corner of Scotland with connections to Ireland and the EU.

    346. Dan says:

      @ Robert Peffers 4.16pm

      There’s never a day goes by that I am not receptive to learning and I always try to be accurate.
      So I’d appreciate if you could clarify in what way my “sums are all wrong – or you are applying them wrongly”.
      The historic population numbers are approximate as they are estimated so aren’t 100% reliable.
      The premise of my post was to highlight the disparity in population growth rates and the economic effect over the years that would be brought about because of it.
      I mentioned nothing to do with Parliaments which you have brought in to your reply.
      I had simply searched for the populations of countries, not Kingdoms.
      If you’re suggesting that England’s 1700 figure would have included Ireland in its entirety as well as Wales, but today’s figure would not include the Republic of Ireland, that would make the growth rate disparity even higher. However I don’t think what you suggest fits in with the figures I selected and used.

      Prepares to be schooled by Auld Bob… And to think I drove by your town twice today as I picked up some parts for a project in Linlithgow afore heading north gain. This could have been explained to me over a cuppa and a biscuit instead of potentially getting my ass handed to me on t’internet. lol

    347. Jock McDonnell says:

      6 Scots at home
      I wonder what the average squad size is?

    348. Gerry says:

      James Melville on twitter…..

      “I have heard from two sources that Theresa May is going to call a general election on May 2nd.”

      Now that could get interesting if it happens. Be interesting to see what the SNP manifesto for that would read like.

    349. ScottieDog says:


      Thanks. Framing is all important – I’d say stephanie kelton is the best there is.

      I know it gets misquoted by those – even with good intentions. It’s also sometimes too easy to try to explain everything in one go – but you just lose people.

      I simply attempt to plant a seed so folk will want to find out more for themselves.

      It’s difficult because of decades of brainwashing.

      From a scottish point of view the crucial thing here is to differentiate between currency users and currency issuers.

      I’d put them onto two columns and identify which entities are under each column..

      E.g currency issuer: uk (WM), USA, Japan, Australia, Russia, EU

      Currency user: greece, Italy (all eurozone countries), scottish gov, Welsh gov, local councils, US states.

      The latter are financially constrained by the former.

    350. cynicalHighlander says:

      Jock McDonnell says:
      11 February, 2019 at 7:40 pm

      ,i.6 Scots at home
      I wonder what the average squad size is?

    351. Dr Jim says:

      Nicola Sturgeon goes abroad to do her job for Scotland, Yoons be all *How dare she go anywhere, *day job* *Don’t come back*
      *You don’t speak for meeee*

      Nicola Sturgeon comes back with deals from abroad, Yoons be all, *You did nothing go away* *You don’t speak for meeee*

      Nicola Sturgeon to be questioned by our youth, Yoons be all *Hitler Nazi youth cult bitch* *Iterfering with our kids* *You don’t speak for meee*

      The world says Scotland must be so proud of having a stateswoman such as Nicola Sturgeon, Yoons be all like private Gomer Pile talking to their own gun

      I don’t think we need to worry about who’s made their minds up and who hasn’t, the knuckledraggers are quite clear they have no minds and they’d kill themselves to prove it

      But only efter the big gemme an a few jarrs eh an then we’ll dae it…right!

    352. cynicalHighlander says:

      Some of us will not give the BBC hits in any shape or form so use please.

    353. ScottieDog says:

      Also should have added Iceland to the currency issuer group and households to the currency user group.
      The first group is sovereign, the second isn’t.

    354. @Scottiedog,

      `If you keep typing numbers in the computer to create more money when the resources are all in use, the price of the resources goes up and up and so you need to stop spending with your keyboard!`

      do you not just increase tax to take money out the system.

    355. call me dave says:

      “Aye but ah don’t want to be independent at ma age” says my next table cafe wifie and avid reader of the Daily Mail.

      “Hae you no got grandchildren that might see it different”? says me


      This was after I had over the past wee while politely corrected her misconceptions about the SNHS, Scot Rail and mitigation of bedroom tax etc and uni fees.

      Pheeew! 🙁 She’s softening..??
      Hark the Herald: Hello sailor….Dross Thompson update.

    356. Confused says:

      thanks fillofficer (nice handle!) glad you liked it

      – lots of links get posted here (nana is the champ) – you wonder if anyone bothers
      – the Profumo thing was so good I re-read it myself

      the other link to “Le Cercle” is also good – its like bond villain stuff for real – at times you can hardly believe it all, or think its peripheral, then you realise a certain batty tory housewife getting to be PM was a Le Cercle project
      – and then this new guy in venezuela who the yanks are recognising, there’s a photie of him posing in a masonic apron – nothing to see here, move along

      – someone else who read the Le Cercle article pointed out the head, von Habsburg, claims “Merovingian” descent – these are the descendants of Christ according do Dan “Da Vinci Code” Brown/Holy Blood and Holy Grail !

      our deepest enemies, as nationalists, are the sons and daughters of the names appearing in those links and no doubt they are still pulling the same crap as their forebears –

      democracy, freedom of the press, rule of law … its a joke
      – and the jokes on us, till we get the hell out

      Gladio, by Richard Cottrell is another trip thru the looking glass – you will never look at “terrorist” incidents in the same way again, alas I don’t think there’s a PDF of it online tho, have to hand over the green

    357. yesindyref2 says:

      Put in those terms, for me it’s vital Scotland becomes a currency issuer from Day 1. Not 10 years, not 5, not 2 years after Indy, Day 1.

      BUT it doesn’t have to be the main currency for use straight away. We already use our own currency on a day to day basis, the notes if we’re lucky we have in our pockets. They’re backed 100% by giants and titans in £ Sterling – GBP. To all intents and purposes the Scottish notes are our local currency. If we go to England or abroad and want some pounds, we usually make sure they’re “English” banknotes. Easier to spend out of Scotland, and to change into other currencies. They’re our “foreign” currency.

      Well, keep the same system on Day 1 of Indy, just denote Scottish notes as our own currency. No need even to issue more, to start with, and there’s a limited £4 billion in circulation – no real chance for speculators to move in, not expensive “maintaining” a peg, 1 for 1.

      Then just bit by bit start using our own currency more, denoting debt in it, public sector wages in it, loans, and start using the foreign currency less and less.

      Simples 🙂

    358. yesindyref2 says:

      Oh aye, somewhere in there is the first issue of new currency – £10 billion which buys £10 billion of foreign currency for the Central Bank. That gets lour local currency launced as a foreign currency too, but safely to central banks that want to buy our currency for their currency baskets.

      Second issue? £5 billion to build hydrolosis plants in cities and create a fleet of hyrdrogen buses (likely to get grants from the EU by the way).

      Everyone’s so happy 🙂

    359. Iain mhor says:

      Dr Jim 3:28pm

      I kinda mentioned before my opinion, that any country or state is under no requirement to carry the weight of its name and vice-versa – it is nothing more than a handle. Yes, in its inception it attempted to be descriptive, yet failed even at the first hurdle.
      It was either The “Kingdom” of Great Britain or the “United Kingdoms” (plural) of Great Britain but never The “United Kingdom” (singular) of Great Britain & etc. Yet the latter is printed on your passport…

      So, much like the varying ‘Democratic Peoples Republics’ and The ‘Republic of North Macedonia’ etc. A State can call itself whatever it likes. Whatever state is left after the independence of Scotland, can quite happily continue to refer to itself as the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland or whatever it likes.

    360. yesindyref2 says:

      @Iain mhor
      Only if we let them, give them our permission, and for me that comes at a price. UK is a brand and we own a share of it, all brands are worth money as intangible assets and I want our share of the value 🙂

    361. Cubby says:


      “Dream Big”

      The Norwegians are certainly dreaming big but also planning to construct infrastructure on a big scale all along their West coast. A small independent country with control of its own revenues and its own dreams.

    362. Dr Jim says:

      I think if the UK were to do that they’d be making an even bigger laughing stock of themselves than they are now except the laughing would likely contain a large amount of derisory sneering

    363. Robert Peffers says:

      @yesindyref2 says: 11 February, 2019 at 4:56 pm:

      ” … Laughed my little cotton socks off ?”

      Glad you took it as was intended, yesindyref2, I have posted to Wings several times that even my closest family never know when I’m having them on or if I’m being serious.

      Thing is, even the biggest leg-pulls often contain a grain of truth. I spent many years working in a Radiac Lab but which, besides the nuclear physics stuff they threw chemical and biological instruments at us, (sometimes literally).

      Thus involved all sorts of different scientific field with the only link between then being the electronic circuitry. Our biggest problem was the several lots of jargon the different field used. Medical Science, Quantum Physics, Nuclear Physics – just to mention a few.

      What struck me quite soon in dealing with the various different fields was that, if you pressed them, every damned one of them could explain it in simple English without the jargon.

      Believe me, with my poker face, I pulled many a high profile medical, physicist or other scientific leg.

      Yes indeed that’s the problem with MMT nobody can out it in simple language interested people can understand.
      That’s the problem with heterodoxical analogously amalgamated interspertial collectivisms of metaphorphic graphological vacuousnesses.
      “Yes, but what’s all that about then Ted?”.

      Yes, that was indeed my point, You can see Mr Man in the street’s eyes glaze over and his interest becoming stone dead and almost no one is immune to jargonitis, (I just made that word up). To slipping into jargon it is both chronic and endemic.

    364. Lenny Hartley says:

      Scottiedug re mmt, take it in an indy scotland there would be only one issuer of currency and debt , the national bank of Scotland, nae mair commercial banks issuing currency/debt .
      Yesindyref2 we have several billion in foreign currency at the moment, every pound printed by a Scots bank is backed by an “English” deposited in BoE. All we need to do is take that back , change some into Euros and dollars and Continue using the Scots pounds in circulation.!

    365. geeo says:

      @iain Mhor.

      So, the ‘united kingdom AND NI” huh ?

      Yet there will only be ONE Kingdom (of England) as it is not going to be ‘united’ with anyone, so calling themselves a UNITED Kingdom is plainly ludicrous.

      Calling themselves ENGLAND does rather leave that awkward explanation to be given as to the status of Wales and N.I. in relation to the Kingdom of England.

      Trying to keep ‘United Kingdom’ makes sense for WM as it helps keep up the pretence of being what they are not.

      Ultimately, i couldn’t care less what they call themselves after we leave, unless they want to use ‘Scotland’.

    366. CameronB Brodie says:

      Scot Finlayson
      “do you not just increase tax to take money out the system.”

      Do you want to get elected? The public have been conditioned against the idea of tax over the last 40 years of neo-liberal governance and a manufactured culture of individualistic disposable consumerism.

    367. CameronB Brodie says:

      “The Merovingians were a Salian Frankish dynasty that ruled the Franks for three centuries in a region known as Francia in Latin, beginning in the middle of the 5th century.[1] ”

    368. Dr Jim says:

      Norway has better oil than Scotland, in fact every country in the world that has oil has got better oil than Scotland

      See Scotland’s renewable electricity one day it won’t renew

      Scotland’s Salmon are all going to die

      Everything Scotland’s got, which isnae much is gonnae break an then whit’ll ye’s dae

      England rules cos we arra peepel

      And that’s where the contradiction in terms comes in

    369. Robert Peffers says:

      @Gerry says: 11 February, 2019 at 10:13 am:

      ” … Do you happen to know off hand what the % representation of Scottish MPs was after the 1707 union?”

      Strange you should ask that – I read the figures just a couple of days ago while checking something else. For the life of me I cannot remember what the figures were. It wasn’t quoted as a percentage but just the numbers were agreed.

      Oh! Wait up – I just remembered something – The figures are actually also included in the Treaty of Union itself – here in Article of Union – XXII :-

      Blockquote>“‘That by Virtue of this Treaty, of the Peers of Scotland, at the Time of the Union, sixteen shall be the Number to sit and vote in the House of Lords, and fortyfive the Number of the Representatives of Scotland in the House of Commons of the Parliament of Great Britain; and that, when her Majesty, her Heirs, or Successors, shall declare her or their Pleasure, for holding the first or any subsequent Parliament of Great-Britain, until the Parliament of Great-Britain shall make further Provision therein, a Writ do issue under the Great Seal of the united Kingdom, directed to the Privy-Council of Scotland, commanding them to cause sixteen Peers, who are to sit in the House of Lords, to be summoned to Parliament, and forty-five Members to be elected to sit in the House of Commons in the Parliament of Great-Britain, according to the Agreement in this Treaty, in such Manner as by an Act of this present Session of the Parliament of Scotland, is, or shall be settled;’ Which Act is hereby declared to be as valid as if it were a Part of, and engrossed in this Treaty: ‘And that the Names of the Persons so summoned and elected, shall be returned by the PrivyCouncil of Scotland, into the Court from whence the said Writ did issue. And that, if her Majesty, on or before the first Day of May next, on which Day the Union is to take place, shall declare under the Great Seal of England, that it is expedient, that the Lords of Parliament of England, and Commons of the present Parliament of England, should be the Members of the respective Houses of the first Parliament of Great-Britain, for, and on the Part of England, then the said Lords of Parliament of England, and Commons of the present Parliament of England, shall be the Members of the respective Houses of the first Parliament of GreatBritain, for, and on the Part of England, And her Majesty may, by her Royal Proclamation, under the Great Seal or Great-Britain, appoint the said first Parliament of Great-Britain, to meet at such Time and Place as her Majesty shall think fit, which Time shall not be less than fifty Days after the Date of such Proclamation, and the Time and Place of the Meeting of such Parliament being so appointed, a Writ shall be immediately issued under the Great Seal of Great-Britain, directed to the Privy-Council of Scotland, for the summoning the sixteen Peers, and for electing forty-five Members, by whom Scotland is to be represented in the Parliament of Great-Britain: And the Lords of Parliament of England, and the sixteen Peers of Scotland, such sixteen Peers being summoned and returned in the Manner agreed in this Treaty; and the Members of the House of Commons of the said Parliament of England, and
      the fortyfive Members for Scotland, such forty-five Members being elected and returned in the Manner agreed in this Treaty, shall assemble and meet respectively, in their respective Houses of the Parliament of Great Britain, at such Time and Place as shall be so appointed by her Majesty, and shall be the Houses of the first Parliament of Great-Britain, and that Parliament may continue for such Time only as the present Parliament of England might have continued, if the Union of the two Kingdoms had not; been made, unless sconer dissolved by her Majesty: And that every one of the Lords of Parliament of Great-Britain, and every Member of the House of Commons of the Parliament of GreatBritain, in the first, and all succeeding Parliaments of GreatBritain, until the Parliament of Great-Britain shall otherways direct, shall take the respective Oaths of Allegiance and Supremacy, by an Act of Parliament made in England, in the first Year of the Reign of the late King William and Queen Mary, entitled, An Act for the abrogating of the Oaths of Supremacy and Allegiance, and appointing other Oaths, and make, subscribe, and audibly repeat the Declaration mentioned in an Act of Parliament made in England, in the thirtieth Year of the Reign of King Charles the Second, entitled, An Act for the more effectual preserving the King’s Person and Government, by disabling Papists from sitting in either House of Parliament, and shall take and subscribe the Oath mentioned in an Act of Parliament made in England, in the first Year of her Majesty’s Reign, entitled, An Act to declare the Alterations in the Oath appointed to be taken by the Act, entitled, An Act for the further Security of his Majesty’s Person, and the Succession of the Crown in the Protestant Line, and for extinguishing the Hopes of the pretended Prince of Wales, and all other Pretenders, and their open and secret Abettors, and for the declaring the Association, to be determined at such Time, and in such Manner, as the Members of both Houses of Parliament of England, are by the said respective Acts, directed to take, make, and subscribe the same, upon the Penalties and Disabilities in the said respective Acts contained. And it is declared and agreed, that these Words, this Realm, the Crown of this Realm, and the Queen of this Realm, mentioned in the Oaths and Declaration contained in the aforesaid Acts, which were intended to signify the Crown and Realm of England, shall be understood of the Crown and Realm of Great-Britain; and that in that Sense, the said Oaths and Declaration be taken and subscribed by the Members of both Houses of the Parliament of Great-Britain.

      The Treaty itself was written in French so this is a translation into English so may differ slightly in other translations.

    370. ScottieDog says:

      @Lenny Hartley

      Removing power of commercial banks to create money is seen as a controversial move. I know it is one of the more radical proposals of positive money U.K. and there was a time when I would have agreed with it.

      I think banks can still perform a useful function as money creators – it just has to be properly regulated. Credit guidance would be my first preference – where the central bank directs the type of loans banks can make depending on where it is needed in the economy. Right now banks are given the freedom to steer the economy – most of their credit goes into pumping up property bubbles.

      I’d hold regulators accountable (unlike just now) so a bank that collapses after being given a triple a rating becomes a very serious deal for the auditors. The auditors and the banks are thick as thieves just now.

      Thing is, a properly balanced economy would reduce the need for the private sector running large deficits – like we did in the run up to the financial crisis.

      We as users of the currency can’t keep running up debts – unlike the issuer of the currency (government)

    371. Iain mhor says:

      @Yesindyref2 8:28pm

      A little puzzled at why the Kingdom of Scotland would be remotely interested in the name of another State. Or that it could conceivably have any power to force it to change it. It’s hardly Greece and “North Macedonia”or The “Republic of Cyprus” and “North Cyprus” they wouldn’t be calling themselves “South Scotland” and nor would Scotland be referring to itself or branding anything “Product of North UK?” I’m not quite sure what you’re saying.
      Is it a trade mark kind of thing, Intellectual Property? Scotland helped grow the ‘Brand’ or as a partner should have a share of the IP in perpetuity, or a lump sum buy out maybe?
      I have a feeling that’s what you’re getting at.
      Fair do’s, stick it in settlement negotiations and good luck. If you don’t ask you don’t get I suppose, but I think it’ll be a sair fecht making that one stick.
      Scotland the Brand is what I’d be more focussed on and who is to say they wouldn’t use the same argument back for that?

    372. ScottieDog says:

      @Dr Jim
      And our electrons flow slower – must be the high winds..

    373. Glamaig says:

      On R4 news tonight there was a piece about the Iranian revolution of 1979. They said the streets were full of people shouting ‘death to USA, death to Israel, death to Britain’ they then played a sound clip of the chanting and I don’t know any Persian, but it was definitely ‘England’ they were chanting not ‘Britain’. A wee glimpse into the future 😀

    374. ronnie anderson says:

      yesindyref2 8.28 I chist throw in ah name there Gerald Ratner ( brand zero ) wie wan stupid comment lol.

    375. Iain mhor says:

      @geeo 8:38pm

      Yes pretty much, or the “United Minions of Wazzoo” the ludicrous nature of the name is not a bar to use. Scan any number of Nation State’s names and have a chortle.
      But yes indeed, who cares what they call themselves.

    376. ScottieDog says:

      Referring what currency we use on day 1.

      No one is going to force anyone to convert GBPs to Scottish currency, however our government will start to collect tax in Scottish pounds.
      That will provide an incentive for people to use sterling to buy the new currency.

      When the decision to buy the currency is made, it will be issued by the Scottish government – maybe at a small premium.

      The demand for the currency keeps it strong. Warren Mosler explains this in the context of Italy were it to leave the Eurozone.

    377. Daisy Walker says:


      I had forgotten with Thatcher – forgotten that she was all set to be demolished at the next GE, when the Falklands happened, and the rest, as they say is history.

      Terrible May will not have forgotten.

      For those rich enough and ruthless enough a No Deal Brexit is absolutely brilliant tactics.

      Firstly no one will ever – cognitively – believe anyone could deliberately choose that route – I mean the damage it does. It would turn the UK into a laughing stock all round the world.

      Until that is, there are food riots, there is a state of emergency declared, money is made for the favoured few selling off the NHS etc, and the uppity Scots are put back in their box which is labeled down with a Union Jack, as Holyrood is shut for the foreseeable, the Scot Gov is – in effect – locked out, and all dreams of holding a PV, or an IndyRef2, or even a GE (no doubt delayed in times of crisis, or else all party ‘cept the SNP, is in power) a SG election will not be necessary as the Civil Service run things on our behalf…. and all of Scotland’s assets get stripped at double the rate to make the already rich elite, even richer, and pay for Brexit.

      Terrible May will be seen as the iron lady, deploying the army, shutting down the internet. She will be the queen of the nasty party.

      And all of this because the elite, had their stash threatened by the EU’s new tax haven laws.

      Some definites:

      Corbyn’s nice noises have been dismissed by May. Already the vote that is supposed to happen on 14/2/19 – the talk is of the can being kicked down the road ‘to give her more time’ until the end of February.

      Her new deal is not flying, her old deal is dead, No Deal is all that is left – all three of them are a disaster for the UK economy.

      The possibilities now are some form of Shite deal, No Deal, an extension, or a complete cancelation.

      If you consider either or both of the last 2 options (which in theory take the wind out of IndyRef2’s sails) – does anyone really think that England will be any clearer about what kind of Brexit it wants with an extension, or that another English driven Referendum to leave will not be forthcoming within 2 years in the event of a cancelation.

      And on 29/3/19 we lose our European membership and significant civil rights that it provides us with (even if they are not very good at protecting them).

      The First Minister thinks Scotland will be indy within 2 – 5 years. She and the SNP cannot do that without the Yes Movement.

      As a common or garden member of the Yes Movement I cannot see a way for this to happen.

      Up until about a year ago, there was a clear plan that was agreed and shared between Yes and the SNP management. It was broken when Pete Wishart announced we should forget about the mandate and ask for it to be approved in the next Scot Gov Election. This was repeated by Tommy Shepherd, it was backed by Swinney and in reality, although NS never issued the words …. the vacuum that has followed indicate this is SNP Policy.

      All the hopes and plans I read on this blog regarding the next way forward for Scotland to gain Indy, whether it be by IndyRef2 + or – S30, or GE, or by legal claim at ECJ/UN…. none of those things come to pass after 29/3/19 if its No Deal/ State of Emergency – they will not have their hands near the levers of power to deliver/instigate any of these things.

      And it needs said now, loudly, clearly, and at every level of SNP membership… for if this is deliberate triangulation, infiltration (like they did so well with the labour party) then the very next part of the procedure is a sad look and a genuine, wringing of hands and a declaration of ‘well how were we to know”, as they then go on to repeat the same policy.

      The British empire has the very dirtiest, most ruthless tricks up its sleeves, and has never been shy of using them. We are its last and most valuable colony.

      The Yes movement currently has all its eggs in the SNP Basket. That is its strength and its weakest point. We ignore this fact at our peril.

      And I suspect we have already run out of time.

    378. Colin Alexander says:

      I love it when people start planning out indy Scotland, such as what currency we’ll use and which defence ships we’ll buy. Good old positive thinking.

      As they said in Star Wars: Rogue One:

      “Rebellions are built on hope”

    379. Robert Peffers says:

      @Fireproofjim says: 11 February, 2019 at 10:31 am:

      ” … Don’t be rude – calling me brainwashed.”

      So you opine it to be rude to tell the stone cold truth?

      ” … I was only using a very rough example to confirm that we would be able to set up our defence system with a considerable amount of existing assets and not starting from scratch.”

      Indeed but you were also using the terms that the Westminster Establishment, and their paid for and directed media, have been beavering away to implant false ideas in people’s brains – ergo Brainwashing the Public to accept as the norm the Westminster views they want people to believe. If that’s rude – then I’m rude.

      If it is the truth – am I still rude?

      ” … I’m becoming tired of your self important comments. You seldom seem to answer without a put down.Usually starting with words like pish or rubbish whenever you think someone has made a comment which you disagree with. By all means disagree but behave in a more civilised manner.”

      Oh! Dear! Didn’t you just use what you class as rude terms yourself just there, Fireproofjim. Talking of which you seem rather less than fireproof if a little truth upsets you. If you don’t like what I, or anyone else for that matter has to say, ” … which you disagree with”. then just scroll on by and save your delicate senses from bing critically injured.

      ” … You don’t have a monopoly on wisdom although you obviously think you do”,

      Do I? Where have i ever made such a claim? In fact I fairly often begin a comment with this phrase, “I may be wrong but …”. Then there is the little fact that I seldom ever post anything without a reference or at least explaining the logic that supports what I’m commenting upon. Sometimes to the extent I’m accused of being longwinded. I just believe it is pointless just to claim something without an explanation.

      You can protest all you want but what I said about your comment is accurate. This particular thread is full of false ideas that stem directly from The Westminster Establishment and propagated by their compliant media – parts of which they directly finance and have given them charters of exactly what they can and cannot get away with. Trouble being that neither Westminster nor such as the BBC stick to their charters.

      I’ve quoted many of these false terms since first commenting on Wings and it is testament to the efficacy of Westminster propaganda that dedicated Scottish Indy supporters factually do use these terms.

      Read the comments – there is no rule, other than Westminster propaganda, that the assets of a bipartite union of equally sovereign kingdoms should, or will be, split along current population ratios. Yet on this thread we have people commenting and assuming that the armed forces and their equipment will belong to the rUnited Kingdom. Yet there cannot legally be an rUnited Kingdom when two equally sovereign kingdoms disunite.

      Now I’d bet you cannot find a single MSM or broadcaster that has propagated that as a fact. Yet the Treaty of Union says precisely what I claim – got that Fireproof Jim?

      It isn’t Bob Peffers’s claim it is the Treaty of Union’s claim – it’s there black upon white in the Treaty of Union. Not only that but the terms of the treaty should be upheld by the international authorities – if the cheated signatories to an International Treaty are not upheld. That’s why there are international courts.

      You most certainly were posting comments that directly reflected the brainwashed ideas Westminster has been feeding into everyone’s brains. I highlighted one yesterday – The Term BRexit is a downright lie. No such EU member state as Britain exists. Britain will thus not be exiting the EU because Britain is not in the EU – only The Republic of Ireland and the United Kingdom are members. The Bailiwicks of Jersey & Guernsey and Isle of Man are accepted by the EU as Associate Members as I believe is Gibraltar but they are not members states and they only get the EU freedoms by association with the UK and will lose them if the UK exits.

      Yet there isn’t a day passes but some Winger wrongly uses the term Brexit without even thinking about it. That is exactly what Westminster has worked so hard to instil in their brains. a.k.a.

      Brainwashed them – and here are you – in total denial and very indignant that you have been outed as being brainwashed – which your own comments prove you most certainly are.

    380. Valerie says:

      Good piece here from Robert Peston, as he is eerily reminded of the fall of Lehman.

      I’ve been trying to stash some things since last year! Peston goes through the moving parts, and why UK is sleepwalking into No Deal.

    381. Confused says:

      No one’s slagged Ross Thomson off today, so I will … they say you shouldn’t kick a man when hes down … I disagree – I think that’s EXACTLY when you should kick him, let’s keep the libertine in the public mind

      I christen him – “The Pervo-Whingian” – as he is not the messiah, he’s a very naughty boy

      – cctv footage has appeared on his entrance to Strangers Bar

      we know it’s the strangers bar as wearing underpants there is “improper attire”

      and a further tribute from those old goth doom merchants, placebo

      No hesitation, no delay
      You come on just like special K …

      Regarding infrastructure and building up our nation – I always thought the natural population of Scotland was about 15M

      – that could be a campaign slogan

      “hey everybody we’re all gonna git laid!”

      or if copyright lawyers come knocking we can replace it with

      “we have the oil, lets start pumping”

      (Big Lexo should probly sit this one out.)
      – one follow on from all this conspirology re: Profumo
      – if Lexo was guilty of any sexual crime, he would have been recruited by the spooks, because this is how they operate – totally controlled agents held fast by the threat of sexual blackmail is classic

    382. Capella says:

      Oops! Russia has noticed Gavin SB Williamson’s “fight them on the beaches” speech. We’re doomed.

      Britain’s Gavin Williamson places Russia & China on notice, I’m not joking

    383. Robert Peffers says:

      @Old Pete says: 11 February, 2019 at 2:00 pm:

      ” … The UK governors will never allow it and we will have missed a golden opportunity.”

      Do explain to us all, old Pete, exactly how it is you imagine the UK Government, (Remember it is NOT legally the Government of England, (either kingdom of or country of England).

      It is not against any law of the United Kingdom not of Scotland to hold a referendum. I was asked, only today, to fill in a referendum of customers of Vodafone to get their customer’s views on Vodafone services.

      The much claimed order that they claim to be Westminster’s authorisation is in fact a written agreement between Westminster THE UNITED KINGDOM parliament and the Scottish parliament that both parties will honour the resulting referendum vote and would both agree to how the question asked would be worded.

      It is not Westminster’s permission. Thing is just how do you propose Westminster will either prevent an independence referendum in the first place and how will they manage to NOT abide by the legally sovereign people of Scotland’s decision?

      The Westminster Government, which would legally just have been ended and there is no legally elected Kingdom or country of England elected parliament.

      Westminster is the union parliament and one of the only two legally sovereign partners will have just declared the union is over. The other partners has no legally elected government.

      Westminster has members elected to THE UNITED KINGDOM GOVERMENT but they are not members of a Government of the Kingdom of England. There is only one person, under English Law, who is legally sovereign in the Kingdom of England but NOT sovereign in the Kingdom of Scotland – Her Majesty The Queen of England but only Queen of Scots which Scots are HER legal superior under Scots law.

      Everyone who has a score to settle with Westminster, and that’s just about everyone in the World including the formed colonies of the USA, Canada, New Zealand, China, Japan, every nation on the European Mainland and the African and Indian continents.

      They do not call them Perfidious Albion for nothing Old Pete. The International courts and the united Nations would have a field day. Just about everyone has a score to settle with Westminster and the British Empire. The Empire that, among other abominations, invented the Concentration Camps.

      Do you know the history of those African concentration camps, Old Pete?

      Do you know the history of, “The Opium Wars”?
      Awa an read this:-

    384. Fireproofjim says:

      Robert Peffers @10.02
      I have probably read most of your posts and you are obviously unaware that your posts often come across as rude. I’m sure you don’t mean to do that. Let me explain again. There is no need to use expressions such as brainwashed, pish, and rubbish, as you often do when you disagree with someone.
      Just point out the error of their ways, and how you understand the situation. You are usually right, by the way, but you’ll catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

    385. yesindyref2 says:

      @ronnie anderson
      I had to google that, busy at the time with babies and being pregnant. My wife that is, not me, being pregnant anyway. One speech and completely blow a brand. Mmm, how many have we heard from May & Co? If we’re not careful they’ll charge us to take brand UK away.

      That sounds about right.

      @Lenny Hartley
      We do indeed, £4 billion worth. Plus £10 billion of the BoE reserves (taking 1/12th if that’s the negotiated ratio rather than 50% of £120 billion!).

    386. Robert Peffers says:

      @Colin Alexander says: 11 February, 2019 at 11:08 am:

      ” … 11 February, 2019 at 10:13 am
      As a wee point of interest, Scotland already had MPs at WM before then, during the Commonwealth, when Cromwell’s New Model Army under Monck conquered Scotland and incorporated Scotland into the Commonwealth and Protectorate.”


      And every one of those, “Scots”, wouldn’t be a Loyalist of England by any chance?

      Nor would conquering The other Scots be anything but the usual, “Just Friendly Banter£, off course.

      Wisna ane o thaim roondheid gadgies oan BBC Question Time the ither nicht?

      Whit fir daes he aye hae hae ane o yon butcher’s aprons fir? Wad a mibbies bi richt tae jalous he wis gaun tae burn it?


    387. Lenny Hartley says:

      Daisey Walker, if you think that people like Sturgeon or Swinney are British Plants You are delusional, I remember having a discussion with Sturgeon at the SNP spring conference at Govan Town Hall in 1990. She would have been just 19 years of age and I can tell you she was a nippy sweetie then and was pasionate about the SNP and Independence. She is no britnat plant.

    388. Liz g says:

      Lenny Hartly @ 11.31
      Lenny, I don’t think that’s what Daisy Walker was saying!
      Apart from she said IF…
      I think she, (and she will I’m sure correct me if I’m wrong)
      was saying that Nicola may be being badly advised from people who are British plants and who have been around in the party for year’s.
      Her reasoning being that Labour’s leader’s are mostly drawn from the moneyed classes now… as in…. This is how over time the “establishment” neutered the Labour party!

    389. Dr Jim says:

      Nicola Sturgeon was offered a position by the UN in 2015, she turned it down
      The FM was offered yet another position by the UN last week as an Ambassador and has again declined but said she would be happy to represent the UN on some occasions pertaining to womens issues around the world but her job as Scotlands First Minister and securing Independence for Scotland was her enduring goal

      Have no doubt of Nicola Sturgeon’s commitment to Independence for Scotland, you might not agree with the way she goes about it, that’s a different thing

    390. Dr Jim says:

      The SNP and the FM are disliked by two opposites in politics that end up with the same results every time, the two being far left thinking Socialists and far right thinking Capitalists and that has always led me to believe the SNP get it right by being a Centre left democratic party

      In other words for the many not the few

      It’s easy to please some of the people all of the time, the SNP please most of the people most of the time and everything else is noisy extremity from right and from left who always seem to shout the loudest but vote the leastest

    391. cynicalHighlander says:

      Lenny Hartley says:
      11 February, 2019 at 11:46 pm

      Theres a poll u know what to do.

      57% Yes 43% No

    392. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Fireproofjim @ 23:05,

      I would just like to quietly echo your sentiments here, and also those of your earlier posting.

      A word to the wise: it’s good to have an open debate, and it’s far better conducted without ego-tripping (whether inadvertent or not).

    393. Thepnr says:

      @Dr Jim

      I have no problem whatsoever with how Nicola Sturgeon is going about regaining our Independence and absolutely no problem in her commitment to do so.

      Those that push the lie might not actually support Independence and the reason for such posts is simply to undermine the leadership of the Independence movement and of course the cause of Independence itself.

      Wolves in sheep’s clothing share the same field as we do.

    394. Dr Jim says:

      Thepnr 12.13am

      Very true

    395. Dr Jim says:

      There is a fairly new line in opposition to the SNP in the form of people claiming to want Independence but refusing to vote for it because of the nasty and bad SNP who are deceiving us all with their do goodery stuff around the place because they should be making everything horrible and not nice because that’s what the Tories want, or some such idiotic nonsense like that because these folk say they want a new Independence real party can come along and they’ll defo vote for them don’t you know

      But while we wait for the better Independence party just vote Labour for now eh

      And we all said Duhh Ohh Kayyy!

    396. Liz g says:

      Thepnr & Dr Jim
      That’s always been the difficulty,especially here.
      Our fears and concerns can so easily be played and probably will be by those … Shall we say… less obvious…
      Less obvious than the ” let’s all talk about the Named Person act” effort today!!!
      Which was handled well,one poster addressed it with the facts and it withered!
      It’s probably always going to be a judgement call on how much to say,but sometimes,I think,its ok to say what we are worried about…. Not ok… Blind Loyalty… We should leave that to our more citrus citizens.
      It can in a way help this site’s credibility as a reflection of the broad spectrum of views that are, Yes!Winger

      Ah … the burdens of being a Winger, they should have nights out to connect and recharge so they should??? 🙂

    397. Liz g says:

      Dr Jim @ 12.32
      That’s one thing that we are going to have to watch out for.
      There are some who are still,even after everything Labour at heart.
      But it’s the Labour they thought existed rather than the one we actually have.
      We should never let up on Labour’s failings,even though they are trailing 3rd.
      They are a Westminster Elite party and have been for a very long time,and that wee bit of of Scottish mindset that liked the idea of them… Should always be reminded of the reality of them..

    398. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Glamaig @ 21:19,

      Like a lot of folks, I used to object very strongly to the misuse of “English” in situations where “British” was the correct form. As in the Beatles’ “Day in the life” where apparently the English Army won the war. (As I recall, Grousebeater keeps a record of such misuses. And no, please don’t let’s get into a debate about the other allies!) This practice was absolutely rife up to the 1970s at least. Maybe the two devo referendums of that decade got through to the English and they began to mind their P’s and Q’s better.

      Anyway, the other day on the screen news ticker on CNN I caught some reference to the “English Queen” or suchlike (the Americans are particularly prone to this), and you know what – I felt perfectly fine about it!

      I also seem to recall my missus recently mentioning some condemnatory reference by the mayor of Ostend (who is currently going spare trying to plan for he-knows-not-what) to the “English Government” or somesuch and I now say “right on, mister!”.

      Likewise for internal use. From now on we should all be referring to the “English Government”. Reframing to make clear to all Scots that the gang in London are foreign usurpers, since they clearly do not represent us in the least.

    399. Thepnr says:

      @Liz g

      The people that attend these Wings nights out are a “clique” somebody on here says so.

      Wee Ginger Dug then is in the “clique” so too is Craig Murray as well as the founder of iScot magazine, the founder of Independence Live, the gadgee that put 10,000 Yes Saltires on the streets in the months leading up to the referendum.

      That’s not to mention the “ordinary” folk who were instrumental in distributing more than 300,000 Wee Blue Books and without whose work it would not have been possible.

      Everyone that reads Wings is welcome in this “clique” just come along to Dow’s on Saturday 2nd March and make yourself known. Look forward to meeting you, this is a “clique” that is open to all.

    400. Liz g says:

      Thepnr @ 12.48
      Take heart Alex 🙂 they don’t call the Yes movement a Clique!
      Why…. Because it’s far too fucking BIG…that’s why 🙂

      But yes everyone who can should come along to the night out.
      Dows (Glasgow) 2nd March.
      Everyone’s welcome 🙂

    401. ronnie anderson says:

      Lenny Hartley I know what to do with that Poll Iv spent my day deleting that shit from Yes pages , people twisting Nicola’s words to fit their narrative.

      Lenny if your going to post newspaper headlines of any Britnat papers try Archiving them 1st , every klik gives them revenues .

    402. Liz g says:

      Everyone can moan at K1 for teaching me to…. 🙂
      LOL 🙂

    403. A. Bruce says:

      @Robert J Sutherland 12:47am

      When I lived in Germany in the 70’s until the middle of the 80’s I too used to get quite pissed off having to correct people using the term English instead of British. But now I’m reading in German forums that they’ve learned to say British instead of English and I’m protesting this time: No, English not British!

    404. ronnie anderson says:

      liz g & Thepnr I’ll yous two tae let Wingers know Come early if you want ah sausage roll Lol

    405. Davie Oga says:

      I’m not the FM’s biggest fan. Disagree with her policies on loads of issues. Transgender ambassador ? Jesus fuckin wept. I respect her though. Extremely professional, competent, and she has integrity.
      Can she get us over the line? That’s how she’ll be judged by future generations of Scots. I still believe she can.

    406. Liz g says:

      Ronnie Anderson @ 1.07
      Biscuits Ronnie are there Biscuits…
      Or could some Winger have eaten them all???
      See Brexit and nae Biscuits is the real ” worst of all worlds”… 🙂

    407. yesindyref2 says:

      Yes, but some times we’re expected to react, and I do so – enthusiastically.

    408. Liz g says:

      Davie Oga @ 1.17
      Aye … But where dae ye stand on Biscuits?

    409. george wood says:

      “Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Likewise for internal use. From now on we should all be referring to the “English Government”. Reframing to make clear to all Scots that the gang in London are foreign usurpers, since they clearly do not represent us in the least.”

      Sorry, I don’t think it is wise to use the term English government, this is just asking for trouble and has connetations of Blood & Soil nationalism which we must avoid at all costs.
      Our problem is with Westminster and that is what we should be promoting.

    410. Liz g says:

      Yesindyref2 @ 1.22
      And I ireverently 🙂
      We could nearly be a clique… How do you feel about Biscuits?

    411. yesindyref2 says:


      Arse! Feck! Women!

      Eh? Good grief, what happened there?

    412. Liz g says:

      Yesindyref2 @ 1.32
      Ah weel… You’re clearly a sausage roll man…
      We’ll say no more aboot it.. 🙂

    413. Davie Oga says:


      As long as there’s no empire. They have my full approval.

    414. Colin Alexander says:

      Liz g


      For the last 40 years the SNP have campaigned on INDEPENDENCE IN EUROPE.

      Brexit ends that yin stone deid. For several years at least.

      Even IF Scotland voted YES to indy at some point in the future. The UK will make sure EU /UK divergence occurs before then, if Brexit happens first. That’s what the EU withdrawal Bill power grab was about in the Lords, so they can then legislate at WM for legal divergence to make EU membership as difficult as possible for Scotland – to discourage / prevent a YES vote.

      So, my fear is people won’t vote for indy if it means Scotland is out the UK but can’t retain membership or re-join the EU very quickly.

      People were told a YES vote in 2014 meant the UK would not agree to the SNP’s indy-lite independence plan (sharing the pound and 50% plus of current UK instutions) and Project Fear also said there would be no EU membership,

      so the majority voted No.

      After Brexit, it’s not IF Scotland would be out the EU, it’s guaranteed. People have seen the nightmare of Brexit negotiations. And how the UK negotiates.

      Who believes Scotland can negotiate a fair divorce deal with the Brits / England’s fascist Tory mob after a YES vote? Only a Wings fantasist.

      Then it’s the old answer from Wingers: oh but we’d take it to the international court of justice or UN or some such tripe from Wingers like you.

      If the divorce details can be settled in court, get the ruling FIRST then that’s the proof so people would know what they are voting for.

      Instead, it’s voting for a pig in a poke, cos the EU horse bolted on Brexit day. And voters fear uncertainty, especially the older they get. And Scotland is fu o auld yins, a fair number of them have retired to northern GB from southern GB, as they like to think of it.

    415. Liz g says:

      George Wood @ 1.23
      Yes, I agree, while I can see the point of “going with” the terms that are already in use internationally.
      Domestically, it has to be Westminster and only Westminster that there’s a problem with.
      If for no other reason “the English people” should have one too!
      Theirs to fix right enough… But not our business,and I’m sure they won’t want it to be.

    416. Thepnr says:

      @Colin Alexander

      Poor poor writing, OK fess up what have you done with the REAL Colin 🙂

    417. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      george wood @ 01:23,

      I appreciate your concern, George, and support the sentiment underlying it. Please note though that I refer to “English” always paired with “government”, not on its own. I believe that makes all the difference.

      The main disadvantage is arguably that down south, most people would likely still miss the fine distinction! =sigh=

    418. Liz g says:

      Oh fir fucks sake
      Sausage Rolls or Biscuits is the point
      Dear Wing’rs…
      Let me be clear.
      There wull be nae Mince at the night oot..

      The night oot
      Dows ( Glasgow ) March 2nd.. All Welcome

    419. K1 says:

      Liz…if ye want tae wink on here tae

      Semi-colon ; dash – right hand bracket )

      Altogether 😉

    420. Kangaroo says:


      Better be careful with your O/T about Le Cercle etc as the Off Topic police will be after you too.

      You are of course quite correct and there is a range of information on the subject, some of which I have tried to highlight at various times.

      I came across this reference material which explains Gematria in detail

      which is 800pages in a PDF and well worth the AUD8 I paid for it. Still only at page 90 fascinating stuff.

      And just for the Conspiracy Theorists. (you know who you are)
      In Daniel 8 the Goat defeated the Ram. Daniel 8 reduces to 53, this was Super bowl 53. Tom Brady playing as the Greatest Of All Time (GOAT) against the LA Rams.
      Further it was held on February 3rd 2019 which reduces to 133 as does ‘the final drive’ a statement made by the commentators at the time of the last score. I thought that statement was a little odd myself until it was decoded. 13 to 3 being the final score, not a coincidence.

      If you watched the half time show then you would have noticed the lead singer had an ‘All Seeing Eye’ tattoo on his right breast. This is Masonic symbolism.
      In fact the architecture of Washingto DC is laid out with direct reference to this symbolism and the ‘Ancient Accepted Rite of Scottish Freemasonary’is openly acknowledged.

    421. Liz g says:

      Thepnr @ 1.49
      I can see whit yer sayin Alex..
      This is horrendous..
      Why would he promise Mince,when there’s clearly no going to be any Mince..
      Why would he do that Alex WHY!!!

    422. Liz g says:

      K1 @ 1.55
      Why thank you, you read my mind.
      I was going to ask at the night oot -:)
      Now I’ll be double the trouble 😉

    423. Liz g says:

      Oops 🙂

    424. yesindyref2 says:

      Someone messsed with his head.

      Now it’s like a plate of tatties, all mashed up.

      Pass the mince.

    425. Liz g says:

      Kangaroo @ 1.59
      Ah dont worry so much Kangaroo
      We’ll ask Kate of Gia to have a word… She knows ye know 😉

    426. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Kangaroo @ 01:59,

      I fail to see the significance of any of that utter drivel to the issue of Scottish independence, you flagrantly-distractional flake.

      And I’m being polite in the use of “flake”, because you’re maybe up to something more deliberate. (If that’s not too reverse-conspiratorial for you.)

      Hop along.

    427. yesindyref2 says:

      Meanwhile, in a galaxy far, far away ..

    428. Liz g says:

      Spacecraft carriers actually have spacecraft’s?

    429. Dr Jim says:

      If people kept telling me I was the most unpopular person in the building I’d leave the building, but Elvis just won’t go he just keeps on singing the same tired song with his fingernails gripping the edge of the stage

    430. Liz g says:

      Dr Jim @ 3.16
      Ah, but they always got him out!
      They even announced it…

    431. yesindyref2 says:

      Elvis was a space cadet!

    432. Liz g says:

      No..wi they moves Elvis was obviously Marine Boy.. Duh 😉

    433. yesindyref2 says:

      I thought that was JAGger.

    434. Liz g says:

      Yesindyref2 @ 3.55am
      While I’m totally comfortable wi Alice!
      I have tae ask
      JAGer,JAGer,JAGer,who the fuck is JAGer???

    435. Kangaroo says:

      RJS @2:22am

      I assure you I am not up to anything. Nor am I in the least bit flaky, though you might get some takers on that from readers of this blog.

      It’s all part of the much bigger picture, of which Scottish Indy is a smallish part, but one very close to my heart, hence I am an avid reader of Wings and a supporter of indy since the early 60’s. Suggest you pay the coins and get the PDF it may give you some insight you would otherwise not obtain.

      Whilst I agree that it appears to be all very far fetched, and ludicrous and you and I might not believe this nonsense, it is clear that other very senior and well connected people do and they are acting it out in real time.

      Just reading that Wimpole Muse blog and it fits right into everything I have found out about such things in the last several years. It is like trying to solve a jigsaw puzzle, without the picture or knowing how many pieces there are. This is just another part, but it is consistent with everything else I have read.

    436. yesindyref2 says:

      The thing is this, and this is also part of the bigger scheme of things.

      Just remember that you’re standing on a planet that’s evolving
      And revolving at 900 miles an hour.
      It’s orbiting at 19 miles a second, so it’s reckoned,
      The sun that is the source of all our power.
      Now the sun, and you and me, and all the stars that we can see,
      Are moving at a million miles a day,
      In the outer spiral arm, at 40, 000 miles an hour,
      Of a galaxy we call the Milky Way.

      Our galaxy itself contains a hundred billion stars;
      It’s a hundred thousand light-years side to side;
      It bulges in the middle sixteen thousand light-years thick,
      But out by us it’s just three thousand light-years wide.
      We’re thirty thousand light-years from Galactic Central Point,
      We go ’round every two hundred million years;
      And our galaxy itself is one of millions of billions
      In this amazing and expanding universe.

      Our universe itself keeps on expanding and expanding,
      In all of the directions it can whiz;
      As fast as it can go, at the speed of light, you know,
      Twelve million miles a minute and that’s the fastest speed there is.
      So remember, when you’re feeling very small and insecure,
      How amazingly unlikely is your birth;
      And pray that there’s intelligent life somewhere out in space,
      ‘Cause there’s bugger all down here on Earth!

      But as you can see it also has bugger all to do with Independence Referendums, considering other ways of getting Independence, campaigning for Independence, hoping to perusade people to vote YES to Independence, or indeed how we can make a success of Independent Scotland. Or, indeed, sausage rolls and biscuits.

    437. Kangaroo says:

      I hope Chris Cairns got a royalty for this

    438. Hamish100 says:


      All very interesting but eill ypu vote Yes and SNP? Lol

    439. Breeks says:

      Gerry says:
      11 February, 2019 at 7:47 pm
      James Melville on twitter…..

      “I have heard from two sources that Theresa May is going to call a general election on May 2nd.”

      Now that could get interesting if it happens. Be interesting to see what the SNP manifesto for that would read like.

      Interesting??? Why the fk would I even bother to read it?

    440. Gerry says:


      Because it sets out the policy intent of the party. You’re welcome. 🙂

    441. Nana says:

      HUNDREDS of files revealing the history of Scotland’s nuclear industry – including details of accidents and safety reviews – are among documents suddenly withdrawn from public view.

      Ian Blackford says
      I met Abellio management regards the decision to relocate jobs from FW to Glasgow.

    442. Nana says:

      According to ITV’s political editor, Robert Peston, the draft letter from the opposition leader to Theresa May was originally agreed between shadow Brexit secretary Keir Starmer and the leader’s office.

    443. Nana says:

      In an extraordinary letter to Michael Gove that was leaked to BuzzFeed News, the UK food industry begged the environment secretary to pause a host of major consultations until after Brexit.

      Government to miss Brexit trade deal target

    444. Nana says:

      Amber Rudd should be dragged in front of the commons & made to explain why Job Centre staff have been told that they are no longer allowed to refer Universal Credit claimants to food banks! What possible reason could there be for this madness? New Video

    445. Effijy says:

      TV and Radio Shirtvread STILL running with SNP have hired pigeons
      To kill seriously ill children???

      It will take a cross party group to hold SNP to account?

      London Calling, London Calling, Lay down your SNP membership
      And surrender your resources and future to your Imperial masters
      Or you all die.

      Now over to Jackie for a final burst of SNP Baaaad!

    446. Sinky says:

      BBC Scotland Can’t help themselves. Just heard one sided vox pop on Labour run Midlothian Council cuts followed by commentator saying Moray facing worse cuts without any alternative view or explanation. Balance only happens when English voting patterns are applied to Scottish political output.

    447. Dr Jim says:

      Alex Cole Hamilton demands an enquiry on the health issue which is not political point scoring he says then says the SNP need to Blah Blah Blah

      It’s incredibly coincidental that councils are *forced* to cut services to the areas that directly affect pensioners and children

      A long piece this morning on bin collection in *Yorkshire* with a lady who’s a bin collection complaints expert (I didn’t even know there were such jobs and I want one) who told us that Englands record on bin collection and council funding was dreadful, then the bin collection lady expert slipped up and told that Glasgow had less complaints about bin collection than ever before

      Now that I’ve written the words bin collection an inordinate amount of times it does seem the most ridiculous amount of time for BBC Scotland to take up reporting the *Scottish news* about bin collection (I did it again) in Yorkshire

      How DOES one secure a job as a bin collection expert, is there a test or an exam, does one need a degree

      The cutting edge of news reporting can always be found at the BBC

    448. Dorothy Devine says:

      Good morning Nana , I hope all is well with you and thank you for the links – particularly the lovely Irishman Fintan O’Toole, he doesn’t mess around!

      Dr Jim , “bin collection expert’ sounds like the job of the year especially in Glasgow.Do you have salary details?????

    449. chicmac says:

      PS more correctly on the National web site

    450. Famous15 says:


      Being British can damage your health.

      Surgeon General advises Independence as an alternative to suicidal madness of Union with England. Suggest the good people of England repudiate the bad Brexiteers.

      Join the world and no need to rule it.

    451. Dr Jim says:

      Infection control

      Next day dawned as next day will to find poor Gertie proper ill
      The doctor came and shook his head, it’s not a chill or sweets he said perhaps the food was given Gertie was chopped up when your hands were dirty, or the cafe clean as clean could be could hide behind its posh exterior a cook with methods most inferior, who licking her fingers passes on the germs to your confeksheeon

      Infection rates like MRSA in Scottish hospitals are at their lowest ever on record, we are all responsible when entering hospitals for cleaning our hands, or if you’ve even got a cold …..Don’t visit, you’re not helping anybody

      There are sick people in hospitals with little or no defence against us bringing them Bacteria along with the grapes and Lucozade

    452. Nana says:

      Morning Dorothy, I’ve already applied for the ‘bin collection expert’ job.
      I’m quite good at sorting through crap, having read so much of it in the britnat media for years 🙂

      Some links have failed to post, probably due to my stubby fingers or maybe a banned word. Check back later to see if they appear.

    453. Les Wilson says:

      Maybe I am missing something here, during Nicola’s USA tour and speeches, she did talk about Scottish Independence.

      What I don’t get is her saying that she thinks we will be independent in 3-5 years. Sorry folks,I am astounded at that, when you imagine what Westminster has in mind for Scotland very soon.

      Personally, and again I ask if I am missing something, but it seems that their plans are working out for them.
      3-5 years to wait is simply unbelievable, when you consider the consequences that are more than likely to befall us.

      There was brief discussion on GMS this morning about how Scotland will be very badly damaged by restrictions on immigration,and due to our demographics of old/ care needs people and earners.

      However, it gets worse, care homes all around but worse in more rural areas will be devastated from lack of EU workers here to assist.
      This will result on longer stays in hospitals especially in age related areas, bring more strain on them, causing very real congestion which will result in failures. This is a very real consequence of the policies that will be inflicted upon us.

      These things will wrongly, be laid at the feet of the SNP and they will be blamed by all the usual Westminster cabal across all media.
      The result then could be a drop in the popularity in the SNP,and there is what Westminster wants, and it could work too.People need someone to blame,the dark forces will be out to scare with a venom.

      We know the farmers will be under strain too, the tourism trade also, and other areas.
      This policy alone could destroy Scotland, and a wee bit down the road our Parliament, and fluffy’s edinburgh office will be in full swing governing Scotland for Westminster.

      These things have already started, whatever brexit we are handed will make no difference to how it will effect Scotland.
      I am an SNP member and have been for a very long time.
      So I am not in any way anti SNP, but I could see how these Westminster strategies could grind Scotland into a hell hole over a politically short time. There are many more destructive policies to add to what I am talking about.

      So how can these things possibly mean a 3-5 years for independence, we will have no means to have a referendum, never mind a chance to change anything that matters.
      Our MP’s at Westminster try hard under overwhelming odds, such odds give them no ability to change anything.

      So I ask if I am missing something, is there some last minute hope of saving us?
      Well, at the moment I am not seeing it, and I am really worried that we soon could no longer have the ability to save ourselves.

      So where does 3-5 years enter into the thinking and why?. I just do not get it, maybe others can explain this strategy.

      All my feelings shout we need to declare our timing now and soon, otherwise we will have little chance of survival.

      However I am asking here for someone to convince me my thinking is wrong, I want to be proved wrong.

    454. Iain mhor says:

      Its the Merovingians again mammy, ah telt ye they were coming! Better hide in the crypt below the temple next to the apprentice pillar carved in aramaic, with the 24 Protocols and the 39 Steps, which adds up to 63 – if you divide the 6 & 3 you get 3 which represents the third eye of Lobsang Rampa and the threefold representation of the maiden the mother and the hag, which sounds like Nag and Nag Hammadi is where the scrolls containing the text of the Apocrypha Gospels of Thomas were found – and another appelation of Thomas was Didymos, which contains the syllable “MOS” which is a truncation of ‘Mosfet’ which is a Transistor – transistors contain an insulated gate and what could be found behind a gate? Perhaps a Bin and what is the other syllable of Didymos? Yes that’s right ‘Diddy’ and counting backwards from the Third Eye is 3-2-1! Yes you are the Diddy who has found Dusty Bin!
      Here’s your brand new bin and there’s no better place to stick your crap.

    455. Ghillie says:

      Liz G,

      Sausage rolls AND biscuits! Lots and lots of biscuits! (what kind mind?)

      Whispering now…we cannot talk about ‘the English government’ (much as they deserve it) as such a thing cannot exist.

      ‘They’ forgot to make one. Daft or what?

    456. Dr Jim says:

      @Les Wilson

      The FM didn’t say that the interviewer posed the question do you think Scotland will be Independent in that time scale the FM answered by saying she would set out her plans for Independence in the coming weeks

      The newspapers and media are distorting what she said once again

    457. Petra says:

      Les check out the link / video that Nana posted at 10:52am.

    458. GrahamB says:

      Check out the pedigree of the presenters of the new BBC ‘Scotland’ news programe

      e.g. David Lockhart, Political Reporter
      David worked at BBC Scotland as a trainee in the run up to the Scottish independence referendum in 2014. After that, he joined BBC Question Time, covering two elections and the Brexit referendum. David has been producing Question Time for the past two years.

    459. Dr Jim says:

      That’s James *I’ve seen the email* Cook

      Remember Frenchgate when he doorstepped the FM over the fake email story

    460. Dr Jim says:

      @Nana, Nicola’s interview

      Technical difficulties playing the video at the moment they say, try later

    461. Gerry says:

      Here’s the relevant bit of the FM’s PBS interview….

    462. Golfnut says:

      @ Dr Jim
      I think the opening lines are quite telling from the presenter, ” leading a small Nation”, no ambiguity there.

    463. Nana says:

      Morning Dr Jim, I just checked and it’s playing right now.

      Trying a couple of the missing links again

      Some people in the US have said they don’t understand the trade benefit of Brexit, so I thought I’d explain it.

      If we get a no deal Brexit, I fully expect the Government to declare martial law. After a few months or years of doing exactly what it wants, with no Parliamentary oversight, and shredders running 24/7, nobody will be able to investigate anything.

    464. mike cassidy says:

      Iain Mhor 9.12

      Long time since I came across the name of Tuesday Lobsang Tampa.

      I believe he was a bin collection expert under his real name, Cyril Hoskin.

    465. manandboy says:

      Gavin Williamson is Britain’s Secretary of State for Defence. Famous for keeping a tarantula in a glass box on his office desk. From what he says below, the tarantula has escaped and now lives inside Gavin’s head.

      “In his speech, Mr Williamson fuelled speculation about his leadership ambitions with a pitch aimed at Tory Brexiteers.

      He said leaving the European Union gives Britain an ‘unparalleled opportunity’ to consider how to maximise its influence.

      ‘Brexit has brought us to a great moment in our history,’ he claimed. ‘A moment when we must strengthen our global presence, enhance our lethality, and increase our mass.

      ‘We shouldn’t be shy about our ambition for our forces.’

      He added: ‘We will build new alliances, rekindle old ones and most importantly make it clear that we are the country that will act when required.

      ‘We should be the nation that people turn to when the world needs leadership.'”

    466. Cubby says:

      It seems to be taking an an awfully long time for some independence supporters to understand a simple truth:

      British Nationalists lie and they lie all the time about almost everything.

    467. Nana says:

      Just starting

      On Wednesday, we’ll be hearing from Bertie Ahern, former Taoiseach of Republic of Ireland, who oversaw negotiation of Good Friday Agreement. Watch live from 10.00am

    468. Nana says:

      oops, sorry that session will be on tomorrow so save the link

    469. Petra says:

      Thanks for the links Nana.

      @ Nana at 7:35am …. “NHS Stockpiling body bags.” Well it looks as though they’re going to need them in light of the fact that the Tory Government, Amber Rudd and the DWP are now determined to starve even more people to death.

      7:37am …. “Scotlands Nuclear History.” Files held in London now being withheld from scrutiny. It’s this kind of thing that would crack you up. They’ve already removed and destroyed documents relating to Scotland’s history, shredded all their dirty wee Colonial secrets and “lost” files that show them up as “housing” a bunch of filthy paedophiles etc, etc. All files relating to Scotland should have been held in Scotland. How anyone has ever been conned into thinking that Scotland has been an equal partner in this Union is beyond me.

      7:42am …… Cairncross Review for a Sustainable Future for Journalism? Well I couldn’t be bothered reading their recommendations. The bottom line is that they could have had a sustainable future if they had reported in a fair and honest way by cutting out using their propaganda techniques. They’re now scraping the bottom of the journalistic barrel, the general public don’t trust them anymore and I can’t see them turning that around. Meanwhile buy the National, the only newspaper that’s informing the Scots of what’s actually going on. Oh and eh of course check out the Nana Smith links on Wings over Scotland, lol.

    470. Dr Jim says:


      Thanks for todays links, I think

      I’m getting more horrified by the day

    471. Cactus says:

      Sausage rolls & biscuits yummy yay!

      Here’s the situation May is in right NOW (hers ends differently):

      Did you see he put A leg up at the end there.

      Get ready for the land of iScot.

    472. Capella says:

      BBC Scotland trying extra hard to stir up a health scare.

      They included a 10-year-old boy who died in December after contracting the Crypotococcus infection.

      A 73-year-old woman, who had been infected with the bug, died at the same hospital in January, with officials initially saying it was from an unrelated condition.

      my bold
      The BBC are world experts at innuendo. Have the “officials” who “initially” said the elderly woman died of an unrelated illness changed their opinion? I missed that.

      But don’t worry, Lewis Macdonald Labour MSP is holding another inquiry. BBC helpfully includes the address to contact if you want to participate. I’ll add it here to ensure you don’t feel left out.

      Anyone wishing to participate is advised to contact the committee at this address: HealthandSport [at] parliament [dot] scot

    473. Nana says:

      @Dr Jim,

      You & me both, and I fully understand your “I think” comment

      Thank your lucky stars I don’t post some of the really crazy, scary stuff I’m seeing. It’s no wonder I’ve got severe indigestion most days 🙁

      Thanks to Ian Mhor’s comment this morning I’ve now got a stitch in my sides.

    474. manandboy says:

      ‘Channeling the Nation’ is the declaration by the British Brainwashing Corporation about its new Scottish TV channel, while at the same time not ‘allowing’ Scotland to have its own independent TV station. Seems like ‘Chaining the Nation’ would be more accurate, more appropriate and more honest.

      The BBC is nothing more than the state mouthpiece for the British Colonial Government as it continues to oppress, suppress and exploit Scotland as a colony wholly ‘owned’ by England.

      Be clear, the UK is a disguised Dictatorship and Scotland is Westminster’s bitch.

    475. Bobp says:

      ” the scottish government needs to stop being passive in the face of the BBC’s refusal to represent the Scotland that really exists,instead of the Scotland that british nationalists would like to exist”. Wee ginger dugs words in todays national.

    476. Proud Cybernat says:

      It seems to be taking an an awfully long time for some independence supporters to understand a simple truth:

      British Nationalists lie and they lie all the time about almost everything.

      I think most indy supporters realise that. It’s the Proud Scot Buts that need to realise it.

    477. So here we go peeps –

      The BBC has published an online article revealing the lucky people who are going to be ‘fronting’ the new BBC Scotland nine o clock news programme with a potted CV about each one.

      All reads innocuously enough until you reach the Holyrood Correspondent and then it says this:

      David worked at BBC Scotland as a trainee in the run up to the Scottish independence referendum in 2014. After that, he joined BBC Question Time, covering two elections and the Brexit referendum. David has been producing Question Time for the past two years.

      Any hope that the new channel might be politically neutral has just been blown out of the water I suspect!

      It’s amazing how ‘they’ have got their claws into the BBC and are well and truly monopolising it to control political discourse in the UK and beyond.

    478. Cubby says:

      Proud Cybernat@10.24am

      I think we are in agreement.

      You said “most Indy supporters realise that”. I said some do not realise it. Sounds the same to me.

      The question is why are there still some independence supporters who do not realise if you are reading, hearing or seeing material from a Britnat source then there is a very high probability it will be lies.

    479. Les Wilson says:

      Dr Jim says

      Petra says:
      Thanks both of you for your replies,I had not seen that video, so another manipulation in play. I have to say it has cleared my mind considerably.

      I still have a question though,if as we are suspecting that a cliff fall is coming, the likelyhood of real chaos across the UK, and martial law might be imposed.
      In such a case our worst nightmares will become reality.

      So how can we be protected in that cenario?
      I am just looking at the real possibility, just a bit of realism if you like. What can our government do then? I hope there is a way to deal with that as, if martial law comes in, it will cover Scotland for sure.

    480. jezza says:


      Treeza had one Brexit plate to spin and she couldnae even do that.

      And today she is going to tell us to “hold our nerve”.

    481. Dr Jim says:

      I’ve noticed that Unionists seem to love *The Law* as long as it leads to the oppression of others whereas they don’t enjoy *The Law* when it applies rules to them

      Laws should stand for all time without change when that *Law* fits their criteria except when THEY want to change them and not even when *The law* deems change necessary

      Or we’d still be burning witches or imprisoning homosexuals

      And there’s the madness of the Yoon they’d probably like those ones brought back

    482. Cubby says:


      First thing I thought when I heard about this new channel was that they have obviously decided the current propaganda channels are not doing a good enough job to discourage people voting yes so let’s have a brand new improved propaganda channel.

      I won’t be watching it. It is a good opportunity to tell the BBC what they can do with their propaganda.

    483. galamcennalath says:

      One aspect of the new channel which isn’t mentioned much is that Scotland will lose BBC 2 Scotland. Currently the HD version of BBC 2 is the English one (or UK wide, as they twist this to mean). The SD version is BBC 2 Scotland with some Scotland specific programmes. These will presumably move to the new BBC Scotland channel.

      So it might have its own slot, but the new channel won’t be a whole channel’s worth of additional content.

    484. Cactus says:

      It is important to keep the current Question Time scandal (Questiongate / Billygate) very much alive and ‘in the news’. Even moreso because of the latest revelation.

      There comes a breaking point where the owners of the company (BBC) are unable to suppress the story no longer and MUST NOW respond to the public, due to public awareness and disgust.

      (ah guess that’s how it works in their press too… they are the first to print any (perceived) negative pro-Scotland news and the last to print any damning and damaging to the uk Union news.)

      Keep it current and Donalda will have to take to the lectern.

      There shouldn’t be any probs for them to carry out an outside broadcast frae the Plantation.

      Have ye ever heard anyone say the BBC have outstanding balance?

    485. manandboy says:

      Yes, it’s the Mail but this is sure to damage Corbyn politically. The official opposition to the Tories just got a a whole lot weaker. There is now no obvious alternative to the Tories as Government. God help us.

      Independence – Scotland’s ONLY hope.

      If you’re serious, adult, grown-up and level-headed about Independence, then join the SNP and help develop Scotland’s independence muscles. We’re going to need them – very soon.

      After Independence will be a different matter, but till then Scotland needs a joined up political movement. Division is anathema to Independence.
      So let’s all get together, right, left, far-left, far right, green, Remain, Leave,- and become Independent.

      One Nation Independence for all.

      Otherwise, Scotland hasn’t a hope in hell in the UK currently being shaped by the Tories.

    486. Dr Jim says:

      @Les Wilson 10.48am

      Do they dare impose martial law across the British Isles?
      They’d like to but I strongly doubt it, the ramifications of doing so would end in a nightmare for the Westminster cabal both domestically and internationally

      To carry out such folly would be to require the entire British army to cover it and total mayhem would ensue in every corner of these islands leading to the certain risk of deaths to both military and civilians, the economy would totally tank and that’s the very opposite of what the Westminster cabal want, if London collapses so do they

      It’s all about the money at the end of the day

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