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An innocent misunderstanding

Posted on January 30, 2019 by

We had a brief exchange with Scottish Labour MP Paul Sweeney last night.

But the thing is, he’s exactly, diametrically wrong about that.

Because voters in Scotland have already been asked this exact question, in a poll by Panelbase last summer. And to be fair to Sweeney, the result surprised us at the time too, so maybe he really just doesn’t know that when presented with a means for Scotland to effectively remain in the EU – at the explicit cost of a customs and immigration border with England – Scots backed the idea by a margin of 2 to 1.

Nor was the outcome split down Unionist/nationalist lines. Almost exactly the same proportion of Sweeney’s own voters (and Lib Dems too) felt the same.

So let’s be generous here, readers. Let’s assume that Labour actively voted down an amendment designed to protect Scotland from the worst of Brexit not out of their usual reflexive anti-SNP spite, but simply from good old-fashioned honest ignorance about what the Scottish electorate wants.

We’ve notified them about the error, and will let you know if we hear back.

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    1. 30 01 19 13:56

      An innocent misunderstanding | speymouth

    125 to “An innocent misunderstanding”

    1. call me dave says:

      Jings! Another stinger Rev. 🙂

    2. ScottieDog says:

      It’s that the guy who lied about having a first in economics?

    3. geeo says:

      So, labour would have supported the SNP motion if the SNP had not tried to protect the majority wishes of Scotland, because labour are not in the business of doing that!

      Who knew ?

      Emm…everyone.

    4. bobajock says:

      Bain’ed.

      God I hate Labour. Britz.

    5. Stravaiger says:

      Hopefully not off topic, but Police Scotland have just announced that they are preparing for ‘potential public disorder’caused by Brexit

      From a tweet at 10.28am today

    6. galamcennalath says:

      There have been enough votes to clarify what Scots want …

      2014 Scots accepted the promises of equal partnership, sanctity of Holyrood, DevoMax and EU membership

      2015,16,17 Scots chose the SNP to represent their views

      2015,16,17 Scots rejected Labour who had been past favourites

      2016 Scots chose to stay in the EU

      … given the total delivery failure of 2014, and the clarity of other votes, only one more vote is now needed to resolve Scotland’s constitutional future. IndyRef2.

      What’s the matter Labour Boy? Afraid you might be confronted by the will of the Scottish people?

    7. yesindyref2 says:

      You’re on the ball Rev.

    8. call me dave says:

      How convenient to use some good news as an opporchancity to let Mundell caw the handle on the old wringer about how we need England to buy oor stuff…or mibee Scotland is doomed. 🙂

      https://archive.is/C5ZzQ

      PS:
      Aye the Scots Police have deferred 300 planned redundancies and decided to up the numbers by 100 instead for Brexit breaking bad.

      Heard it on shortbread radio but no sign of it yet on the kilted website.

    9. geeo says:

      Absolute perfect timing, a post about contempt of Scotland’s expressed wishes, just minutes before another example of anti Scottish contempt at PMQ’s.

      Speaker furious at treatment of Ian Blackford, bet that gets edited out by BBC etc.

      Treeza announcing WM will not trade with Scotland after independence.

      Not the words used, but certainly the intended message.

    10. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Speaker playing a blinder in fact and he told me in a conversation in Motherwell where he was the Tory candidate that had he been in Scotland he would be in the SNP.

      Put this in the previous post

      Yesterday’s WGD in the National will be kept as will today’s offering from Kevin McKenna. McKenna,whose article last week described independence as an “absolute necessity” this week lays waste the Labour Party. “Labour prove their complete hopelessness at every turn” is as he heads it and he doesn’t miss and hit the wall as he contnues in the same vein. Daily Record chips in with “Corbyn’s utter failure as a opposition leader.”

      Mail and Express on a different planet of course and obviously written for halfwits.

      I have worked out why much of the mainstream media treats its audience as halfwits. That’s because they are.
      Had a short conversation with a gent with his Daily Mail under his arm as I collected my papers this morn.
      He was gloating, (Is that a good Scots Word?) “She’s done it ” he crowed. “She’s got her deal through.”
      “No ” I said “She hasn’t. That one’s dead in Parliament. She’s away to Europe to try to persuade them to change the deal to try to save her own skin. They’ve already told her they won’t. You are being deceived.”

      He just looked at me. Like many he has absolutely no idea about any of it.

    11. Clootie says:

      Vote Labour in Scotland and ensure the Union thrives, Trident is replaced, that we intervene in other nations affairs, we keep the HofLs and the U.K. Is helped in it’s journey politically Rightwards.

      Aircraft Carriers, Nuclear submarines, very,very expensive aircraft all designed primarily for force projection and NOT Defence.

      Wha will it take for Scots to reject this grubby Union?

    12. MajorBloodnok says:

      It seems it’s not hard to outflank the mendacious Mr Sweeney, but seeing it done emphatically and with style is what the rest of us come here for.

    13. Luigi says:

      Folks,

      Nicola cannot call the IndyRef yet. Too much Brexit fog, it would be completely swamped. A majority of scots are now seriously thinking of voting yes – when the time is right! Not quite there yet, but almost.

      It won’t be long – this pathetic WM, BritNat theatre show is now on the final act, but it has to be played out for all to see. It looks like the EU are so pissed off that they will not even countenance extending Article 50 (I could be wrong, but it would require a massive climb-down by the EU. Ain’t going to happen IMO. Of course, WM could climb down and suffer humiliation and ridicule, but then we enter massive civil unrest/war territory in the UK.

      We are not quite there yet, but Nicola needs to be ready to act fast – extremely fast, when the dust settles.

      The window of opportunity will be wide, but short-lived.

      It is clear that, whatever the outcome, the British state is planned martial law (trouble ahead) and when the time comes, the establishment will act very quickly to try and secure Scotland to the UK.

      So, be patient, but be ready to go at very short notice. A wee bit of campaigning now would not go amiss, before the formal event begins (which could be anytime).

      Be patient, but be ready. 🙂

    14. Bob Mack says:

      Mrs May seems to believe that Scotland trade with England an the rest of the UK keeps us afloat. Let’s look at that.

      We trade with them because it’s convenient and probably historical after 300 years. What if it stopped?

      Brexit is going to hit hard in any event, but what would the rest of the UK do without gas or oil? Would it help them if we could not send them beef or lamb or drinks or the myriad of consumables they use every day?

      No, it’s not one way at all. England would be in fact shooting off its one foot they have left if a no deal Brexit wins the day.

      I have rarely watched more incompetent politicians than we see today.

      The above is just another addition to that list.Scotland could easily obtain all it requires from the EU if that becomes necessary. Aldi Lidl anyone?

    15. raineach says:

      My House had a vote last night and by a majority of 12, I was given a clear mandate to go back to my bank to renegotiate my loan to a 25 year 0% basis with a unilateral option of my making no payments at all. It is now up to the Bank to come to an agreement!

    16. gus1940 says:

      R the Irish Border matter there has been much misinformed talk to the effect that the use of IT would provide an easy solution.

      Yes there is an obvious hardware solution.

      Unfortunately said hardware would require Software to run on it.

      No such software exists and we are all familiar with the history of government IT projects and the associated costs. time and ballsups associated with them.

    17. raineach says:

      @Bob Mack. Forget food. The source alcohol for English gin comes from unused alcohol in Scottish distilleries. It’s Scotland’s Gin!

    18. ScottishPsyche says:

      A horrible PMQs with no insight into the reality of the situation on the part of the Tories.

      Theresa May was vicious and spitting at Ian Blackford egged on by the boorish simpletons behind her. Vindictive thick Scottish Tories lining up to tell lies about the Scottish Government and SNP.

      If you only watch PMQs your view of Scotland would be completely skewed. it is propaganda, pure and simple. Of course, that is what will be shown on Reporting Scotland.

    19. Daisy Walker says:

      So, Brexit… just to recap.

      The 1% richest people in the UK, from the queen down, do not want to pay tax, or have their ill gotten gains from asset striping continents over centuries identified, with the EU tax haven legislation.

      The EU meanwhile has identified that the aggressive, multi-national, international, corporate tax dodging going on is now threatening first world economies… and so is going to continue with them.

      The British 1% have decided that Brexit is the only way to avoid it… and since European Court of Justice adjudication is the method of implementation… that rules out CU or SM membership (TM’s red lines).

      To that end, even an extension of A50 is not acceptable to them, as the new laws start kicking in about now.

      TM has managed the impossible by brokering a deal in which there is some cobbled together method of still trading (all-be-it not so smoothly) and incredibly, British law will be the final adjudicator in any disputes. Therefore No Tax Haven Laws. So for the establishment, while not their first choice, TM’s deal (and the slightly altered one she might just manage to obtain) is absolutely one that they can live with.

      However, for the mad Brexiteers, it means EU standards on things like food, etc will still have to be met, one way or another. And this rules out a big deal with America, who in every trade deal they conduct, insist that their farm/food products are included in the deal. And it means they can’t just hand over the NHS to them on a plate.

      In any event, the chance to Cancel Brexit, hard won by the Scottish MPs and MSP’s has simply disappeared off the table. There was no sign of it yesterday.

      Fair to say, we now know categorically it will be No Deal, or a very slightly amended rubbish Terrible May’s deal – both of which will totally fuck all of the UK, lead to civil disturbance, food shortages, massive job losses, and the total destruction of our NHS and other public services. And provide them with an excuse to shut down Holyrood.

      But its OK, because Scotland’s natural resources will enable the already rich to weather the Brexit storm and pay for the whole clusterfuck.

      Meanwhile, the can gets kicked a bit further down the road, WM continues its pantomime, and the clock ticks down.

    20. Effijy says:

      Sweeney is on his Tod with that attitude.

      Scotland has a long history of being a 2nd class part of England’s UK.

      Scots are there to be used and abused by Westminster’s Red & Blue Tories.

      Sweeney doesn’t want to see the truth and covers his eyes with the Butcher’s Apron and dreams of the Pension that comes with a Labour safe seat and selling out the locals.

      He may even be able to join the many champagne socialists in the House of Lords and swan about in his Ermine Cloak.

      Ah Yes! 30 pieces of silver goes so far in Westminster these days!

    21. Dr Jim says:

      @Dave McEwan Hill

      Newspapers tell the truth, it’s everybody else who’s lying

      And you wonder how they ever got away with convincing folk that a commercial business whose sole aim is to sell newspapers to make money from sales and advertising and co-operating with governments for political favour would ever do such a thing as tell lies or exaggerate a position thus decieving the very audience it pretends to serve in order to sell them more of the same

      If more folk would only read and think about what they’re reading instead of looking for what they think reinforces their ever narrowing view, after all if they don’t believe one newspaper why do they believe another

      I think the drop in newspaper sales reflects not the rise of the internet so much as the decline in trust of the newspapers and their practices on taking positions on subjects then confusing those facts with opinion so the reader thinks he’s reading news when in fact much of the time he’s subjecting himself to opinion disguised as news

      It’s a lot more than naughty and they know they can get away with it

    22. Socrates MacSporran says:

      We are now, I am certain, heading for England making a “No Deal” exit from the EU.

      May will go back to Brussells, and will be told to “F*ck Off” in 27 diffrent languages. She will then return to Westminster and tell the blue, red and yellow Tories, not forgetting the Dinosaurs United Party: “Well I tried, but the EU would not play ball,” therefore putting the blame firmly onto Europe.

      Britannie (England/Perfidious Albion) will do what it has always done – waive the rules and blame everyone else.

      When that happens, Nicola will have to fire the gun on what I am sure will be a successful independence referendum.

      Then all she will have to do is negotiate withdrawal with England – God help us, because, I reckon the hoops we will need to go through to be rid of the English political cancer will be even more difficult to negotiate than those the EU is almost finished negotiating.

    23. Dr Jim says:

      A Tory view:

      Of course Scotland’s a country, when we say it is, but when we say it’s not then it’s a Region, and what we mean by Region is Scotland is a part of the UK like any other Region except it’s title is Scotland which used to be a country in it’s own right until it became part of something greater than itself and that is England, now everybody sing , there’ll always be an England and Eng, Jerusalem Jerusalem, God save our gracious Queen

      Sing you Jock Bastirts

    24. Al-Stuart says:

      Willie Bain proves the idiom that “there is nothing more EX than an ex-MP.”

      Fancy a hoot and smile in all of this Brexit bull$hit, check out how Willie Bain respects his legacy as an MP. He couldn’t be arsed to pay the £5.99 per annum to renew his website domain. Either that or Oor Willie has turned Chinese….

      http://www.williebain.com

    25. Sinky says:

      BBC Scotland lunch time propaganda says that the Speaker had to intervene over rowdy behaviour on both side when in fact it was only the usual disgraceful heckling of Ian Blackford that was reprimanded.

      Scots should be able see this disrespect on National TV as the Unionist press will never report it.

    26. call me dave says:

      @Sinky

      Saw it on Parliament channel and heard a ‘version’ of it on shortbread filtered tv.

      Shurley shome mishtake! 🙂 The liars.

      Whitlin mae fiery cross! Not long to go. 🙂

    27. Any excuse will be peddled by labour politicians to justify their voting against SNP motions and Scotland’s interests at Westminster.

    28. call me dave says:

      Oops!

      Forgot to say all the London three main FTSE’s are valiant on the stock market, soaring at the moment.

      Funny old world init.

    29. galamcennalath says:

      Socrates MacSporran says:

      “Well I tried, but the EU would not play ball,” therefore putting the blame firmly onto Europe.

      Right now that is the only explanation I can think of.

      Deliver Brexit on cue, any Brexit. And if it’s a truly shite Brexit, blame the EU. The gullible will fall for it, too.

    30. Dr Jim says:

      Theresa May claims the usual nonsense about Scotland’s trade with England is more important than the EU and wielding it as if a threat that England will not trade with Scotland should Scotland become Independent but at the same time attempting to retain a trade deal with the EU which would see England having to trade with Scotland anyway as part of the EU

      Theresa May can’t tell the EU England wants trade with the EU but not Scotland that would be the same as saying England is refusing to trade with the Republic of Ireland and if England tried that on they would suffer the inevitable consequences from the EU

      Theresa May is an incredibly silly woman, even though some of the Tory believers in Scotland might spew this nonsense out even Tory believers are not that stupid, I include Labour supporters in that because it’s the same party in Scotland

    31. McBoxheid says:

      geeo says:
      30 January, 2019 at 12:35 pm

      Treeza announcing WM will not trade with Scotland after independence.
      ————————————————————–
      So, does that mean she has now accepted that Scotland will get its independence, then?

    32. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      Any idea if the ‘potential public disorder’caused by Brexit that Police Scotland have just announced that they are preparing for is going to be in Scotland or in Northern Ireland?

      https://archive.is/PGbtT

      https://archive.is/6mLEZ

      Also if additional funding is required surely this should come from Westminster (as an additional consequential) as Brexit is their pet project?

      https://archive.is/cMYZS

      Hopefully Hamza Yusuf will refuse to deploy Scottish Police assets to NI but I’d be prepared bet it will be a Home Office decision as part of a UK National State of Emergency.

    33. robertknight says:

      Doesn’t matter what party Yoon MSPs/MPs/MEPs claim to be from or who they claim to represent – they will ***k Scotland over time after time after time and their cohorts in the MSM will have the majority in Scotland convinced they should be grateful and to just keep assuming the position.

      When is the electorate here going to wake up and see these utter bampots for what they are?

    34. Time to up the ante, guys.
      My desert boots are older than, and have had more wear and tear and experience of life than that jumped up backbench boneheaded placemat coonsillor, Paul Sweeney.
      Are we getting the 13 Frigates, Sweeney?
      The Tartan Red Tories would destroy Scotland for their English Masters.
      They are the enemies of the people.
      I note HMG advice to GB citizens working, settled or holidaying in the EU post 29th March is that they will have to take out medical insurance since the wee plastic EU Health Card will be invalid from that date.
      Anybody on here booked a holiday to Spain yet?
      There will be a carpetbagger selling you Health Insurance along soon.
      Probably American.
      It’ll cost thousands if you break your ankle on a Costa Beach this year. You are warned.
      The second reading of the Immigration Bill saw the end of medical cover in Europe for the Brits.
      We are warned of food shortages and empty shelves at Tesco’s and ASDA.
      Since Scotland is virtually self sufficient in basic food stuffs, (who needs bananas?)and Loch Ness has more fresh water that all the lakes and rivers in England, and we supply our hostile Southern neighbours with gas, electicity, and oil, we can all see where No Deal is leading us.
      Martial law will be imposed on us and our food and energy ‘requisitioned’ by our warlike Southern Neighbour, and the 24 Brit Nat ProudscotsButs, the ‘Brazis,’ will vote through the ‘Acquisition of Scottish Assets Bill’, and watch their fellow Scots starve, die of the cold, or lack of medicine to feed the xenophobe isolationist Down There.
      WE can stop this of course.
      A people’s Army blockading the border at Berwick and Carlisle would be a start.
      Set up hundreds of Peace Camps on our grouse moors and deer forests.
      A ‘Gilets Tartans’ uprising, a people’s protest.
      We are heading for No Deal; and it’s all that Johnny Foreigner’s fault.
      England is on a war footing now, and in the ‘phoney war’, early stages of virtual WWIII with the Froggies, Krauts and Dagos who are now portrayed as the enemy.
      Well, Scotland still considers Europe its allies and friends..
      Blockade the M6 and the A1 is a good start.
      Can I get arrested for even suggesting this?

    35. Dr Jim says:

      The Scottish budget:

      The three party Tory party in Scotland refuses to pass the budget because the demand that a referendum on Independence be taken off the table

      What has the constitution of Scotland got to do with the financial budget for the running of Scotland? Answer, Nothing

      Partick Harvie is demanding the Scottish government increase taxation to fund more money for the already fully funded councils, Derek McKay won’t budge on that and Patrick Harvie knows it so why is Patrick Harvie demanding it, well Votes folks Votes, Patrick thinks everybody in Scotland just loves paying more tax to give to local councils to decide for themselves what they spend it on

      Well Naw we don’t because if the government controls most of the money and spend it badly you can vote them out much more easily than councils because traditionally less folk blame councils for bad decisions, more blame government so it makes a lot more sense to retain responsibility where it can be accounted for instead of nameless officials nobody ever heard of in a council most folk never bothered taking the time to vote for

      It’s the reason we had badly managed Labour councils in Scotland forever and couldn’t get rid of them

    36. Arbroath1320 says:

      Well what do you know Paul Sweeney is confused ..,. AGAIN!

      Apparently he seems to spend a great amount of his time in the neighbouring constituency (S.N.P.) rather than his own. I wonder why … jealousy perhaps? 😀

    37. HandandShrimp says:

      Labour spell voter aspiration as telt. Paul doesn’t care what the Scottish voters want as long as he can shoe horn Labour’s contortions on the subject in.

      Labours latest position is to remain in the SM and CU. Good! That has been the SNP position from day one.

    38. Arbroath1320 says:

      Dr Jim says:
      30 January, 2019 at 1:54 pm
      Theresa May claims the usual nonsense about Scotland’s trade with England is more important than the EU and wielding it as if a threat that England will not trade with Scotland should Scotland become Independent but at the same time attempting to retain a trade deal with the EU which would see England having to trade with Scotland anyway as part of the EU.

      There is only one incy bitsy teency weency wee problem with her saying this Dr. Jim and that is the simple fact that I read somewhere, fairly recently as it happens, that England “exports” MORE to Scotland than we do England … apparently. So it appears that Feartie is really serious about cutting her nose aff tae spite her face after all! 😀

    39. Arbroath 1320, @2.15 pm.
      England will be Begging to trade with Scotland come March 30th.
      We’ve had this tissue of ‘4 times as much with rUK than the EU’ since Indyref 1 was announced in 2013.
      It is a lie which the Scottish MSM Collaborators have unceasingly backed up over the past 5 years.
      Most of our produce is indispensable to the English; and remember we will be the continuer EU State, the ’28’ in the EU 28 when England and Wales crash out of Europe, and we opt resoundingly for Self Determination.
      There are only so many postal No votes that the Brazis can garner in Retirement homes now. It’s the Law of Diminishing Returns.
      Blockades and civil disobedience as a first step, surely?
      Allons, Gilets Tartans, le jour de gloire est arrive.
      I’ve had my fill of the Scots Brit Nat Anglo Nationalists.

    40. Millsy says:

      If you are planning resistance to the ‘security measures’ that will inevitably follow a No-Deal Brexit , better plan now for there is nothing more certain that GCGQ /MI6/Police etc… will close down the internet / twitter/ facebook etc to retain control over the masses .

    41. Izzie says:

      The MPs truly believe that the EU will split and cave in to UK demands. Divide and rule strategy in evidence.

    42. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Jack Collatin (2.03) –

      ‘Can I get arrested for even suggesting this?’

      I would imagine so.

      We sometimes joke about people ‘making lists’ etc, but we should take it as-read that each and every one of us had our particulars taken down the moment we commented here.

      They won’t wait until martial law is enforced before cross-checking watever lists they’ve compiled over the years. It’s worth noting that Heath was very wary of British army/intelligence services being seen to imprison/torture Irish citizens during internment (see the link I posted yesterday to the NYT piece), but not because he was overly concerned with their welfare. Rather, he was keen to get closer European integration and knew it would look very bad on our application if we were partitioning neighburing nations, suspending ‘devolved’ governments etc.

      Now we have the same process in reverse, and the suspension of Stormont should’ve had major bells clanging long before now. Mary Lou MacDonald was just saying, as plainly as it’s possible for anyone to say anything, that there will be *no* return to a hard border under any circumstances. She was born the same year Brits were deployed in NI so she has more than a passing interest in what’s happening and what’s around the corner if the warnings are not heeded.

      Perhaps the most worrying feature of Operation Demetrius (as the process of internment was called by the Brits) was the number of entirely innocent Irish citizens who were arrested, detained, tortured, had their families wrecked, lost their homes etc but had no connection whatsoever with any of the republican groups, armed or otherwise. The ‘intelligence’ was faulty, but didn’t prevent their seizure.

      None of us should be daft enough to pretend that the same couldn’t happen here, and that – if it does – some of us aren’t already figures of interest, regardless of what we’ve said or written here or elsewhere.

      So it goes!

      😉

    43. Petra says:

      Good resume Daisy (1:01pm), however you forgot to mention the part that Big T’s wee man, Philip, plays in all of this. He’s Big T’s number one special advisor (plus lobbyist, IMO) and has been accused by her Chief of Staff, again recently, of going too far in butting his neb into political affairs. His company, Capital Group, is involved in hiding money off-shore and makes a fortune through the sale of Arms. This crowd are literally getting away with blue murder which the vast majority of people in this country don’t seem to be aware of.

      http://www.globalresearch.ca/disgusting-conflict-of-interest-theresa-mays-husbands-investment-firm-made-a-financial-killing-from-the-bombing-of-syria/5636632

    44. Arbroath1320 says:

      Ian Brotherhood says:
      30 January, 2019 at 2:49 pm
      @Jack Collatin (2.03) –

      ‘Can I get arrested for even suggesting this?’

      I would imagine so.

      We sometimes joke about people ‘making lists’ etc, but we should take it as-read that each and every one of us had our particulars taken down the moment we commented here.

      My partner dreads every time there is a knock at the door. She is convinced one of those days there’s gonna be a couple o big burly types at the door coming to take me awa! 😀

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Fn36l_z3WY

    45. Daisy Walker says:

      Aye Petra, and didn’t one of Mr May’s company’s win the contract to ‘police’ the Olympics, and then bailed out at the last minute.

      If the UK gets totally minced with Brexit, no doubt his G4 Security type firm will be on hand to try and privatise/hoover up core Police roles.

      And speaking of Police re the 1000 officers for Ireland. With Scotland being asked to provide 400.

      I think not. We make up about 10% of the Population, just because England has cut its Police force numbers to unsustainable levels, why should Scotland have to compensate extra officers.

      They will be in an impossible position – like the squaddies in the early 70’s. it would suit WM fine to try and divide and conquor the Scots and Irish, by tarring the Scottish Police Officers with an impossible task on the NI Border.

      Scottish Cannon Fodder – yet again. Sick of this.

    46. Republicofscotland says:

      I think it now widely agreed that Labour work for the benefit of Labour, then the union, and almost never for the people of Scotland.

      After reading years of machinations by SLAB, I’m at the stage now that I just can’t take anything they say seriously anymore.

    47. David P says:

      May I ask, what the plan is if England gets hard brexit Scotland pushes indyref2 and stays in the EU an hard border with England would be needed, right? They will use that as an argument and it will have an heavyweight on soft yes an no voters.

    48. Petra says:

      “The clear wishes of the Scottish people” was, in essence, that a majority of the Scottish people voted to remain in the EU. Straightforward but he doesn’t get it or did someone, like Corbyn, forget to tell Sweeney that?

      It must be confusing for him right enough when he has a boss that two and a half years on from the EURef has now “knocked” another of Nicola Sturgeon’s policies / plans. Maybe our heads would be wasted too if we were involved with the Labour Party.

    49. Dr Jim says:

      They want Scottish police officers in NI because of the bad feeling about all English officers, it was the same when the soldiers accupied NI they always kept a contingent of Scottish regiments in the hope of less bad feeling towards the Scots

      I would have hoped that given policing is devolved in Scotland our FM would and should object strenuously, we’re trying to build relations with Ireland not bugger them up

      Even if the FM doesn’t have the power to refuse she should publicly object to make it clear to the N Irish it’s sod all to do with us

    50. Jack Murphy says:

      VIDEO. Joanna Cherry, QC. MP. yesterday in the Commons.
      My apologies if this has already been Posted.

      Random extract:
      “…very soon, Scotland will have to decide whether Scotland wants to be a member, an unequal member of this Union, or an equal member of the European Union.
      A member of a market of 60 million, or a member of a single market of 500 million.’ ”

      https://twitter.com/lumi_1984/status/1090393253483069445

    51. galamcennalath says:

      Dr Jim says

      we’re trying to build relations with Ireland not bugger them up

      Indeed. I’m all for our emergency services helping out neighbours when something unforeseen happens. But this is political, it’s wilful vandalism! The problems are completely the results of incompetence in WM. Our cops should stay well away.

    52. hackalumpoff says:

      Ian Blackford told to Fuck Off By Ross Thompson?

      https://twitter.com/zeebeving/status/1090537964789161984

    53. Socrates MacSporran says:

      If it can be demonstrated beyond reasonable doubt, that Ross Thompson did indeed tell Ian Blackford to F*ck Off in the House yesterday – then, if not the HoC authorities, and/or the Speaker, then surely the SNP members should be pursuing this, and not taking no for an answer.

      Let’s get that nasty little jobbie suspended for a wee while, if only as a service to his constituents.

    54. Dorothy Devine says:

      hackalumpoff, having watched clip of PMQs I would be very happy to see the SNP walk out of that dreadful place .

    55. geeo says:

      Every flood starts with a single raindrop.
      ……….

      Barclays is preparing to pull the trigger on no-deal Brexit plans to shift assets worth £166bn (€190bn) to its Irish division as it “cannot wait any longer” amid continuing political uncertainty, a High Court judgment has revealed.

      ………..

      http://archive.is/CudC6

      Just think, if we had voted Yes in 2014, the flood of money, business and jobs, could have been flowing north.

    56. frogesque says:

      Hmmm…. 3 meals day, warm room, no bills, plenty of like minded mates.

      What’s not to like for a pensioner lifted for ‘sedition’ Come all ye martyrs, it’s party time!

    57. May at PMQ lying that 60% of Scotland’s trade is with England, and while madly arguing that she can get a revised backstop deal warns that England will ‘punish’ Scotland by ceasing to trade with us, a EU Member state, and will erect a hard border between England and Scotland to boot.
      The woman is stark staring mad.
      At this stage, having read watched and listened and been threatened by the Scots Uncle Tams and Merrie Englanders, I’m all for ceasing any trade with them and erecting a hundred foot wall, with armed watch towers, from the Isle of Whithorn to North Berwick.
      Where are these latest trade figures which May quoted the day?
      The isolationist Brit Nat Socialist Up Here, the ‘Brazis’ let her away with these lies and threats to their constituents.
      Cowards and lap dogs every one of them.
      She is threatening their country, and they look the other way.
      Still no knock at the door, guys.

    58. Bill Purves says:

      Re, exports to England what are they going to do without Scotlands oil and gas, it doesn’t matter to an independent Scotland, we would sell it somebody else.

    59. Derek Rogers says:

      O/T

      …or perhaps not. Came across this joyous bit of Robert Burns today:

      The injured Stuart line is gone,
      A race outlandish fills their throne;
      An idiot race, to honour lost;
      Who know them best despise them most.

    60. Jim McIntosh says:

      @JackMurphy
      15:27

      ”A member of a market of 60 million, or a member of a single market of 500 million.’ ”

      Joanna could have stuck it to them even further if she’d said

      “An UNEQUAL member of a market of 60 million, or an EQUAL member of a single market of 500 million.”

    61. ronnie anderson says:

      Daisy Walker/Dr Jim Scottish Police officers signup to serve the Scottish Public & as far as I can see nobody ie ( Scottish Onion Police Federation spokesperson ) hasn’t uttered one word .

      I would think the police officers have a big say as to whether they go into a very dangerous area at the behest of Tereza .

    62. Daisy Walker says:

      60% of Scotland’s trade is to England. According to WM’s dodgy book-keeping.

      Aye and a big chunk of that is yir leccie. How you gonna cope when we switch yir lights off, Engerland? Not to mention 93% of all the Oil.

      And how are you gonna pay us, when Scotland’s the only bit of the UK brining in any money?

    63. ronnie anderson says:

      Jack coollatin I would suggest you look at Google maps to find the Scottish border an dont ask Roddy Stewart

    64. Jim McIntosh says:

      OT- IndyLive Radio really like Del Amitri. ???

    65. sandy says:

      Call me dave @12.33 pm.

      Aye, & that will include the £34b of whisky that was exported to England & subsequently re-exported world-wide, then added to England’s export statistics.

    66. call me dave says:

      Brexit: A few mintes ago.

      Backstop is ‘part and parcel’ of the deal, says Michel Barnier

      https://archive.is/dvbcW

    67. North chiel says:

      Still no absolute clarity on Brexit , and rightly our FM requires the outcome to be crystal clear and her mandate to be triggered. However, it would appear that TM has decided to “ go for broke” ie. No deal Brexit together with twin objective of holding Scotland firmly within her “ precious , ever so precious (to the Westminster Britnat establishment) Union. Make no mistake if this “ No deal” Brexit transpires, then as far as Scotland is concerned they will be completely ruthless in the treatment of both our country and Holyrood government . Nothing will be “ off the table” and in collusion with the Britnat state propaganda outlets , all decisions taken no doubt under “ emergency powers” will be for the “good of the country and all citizens “. Effectively all Scottish assets will come under Westminster control with the “ Governor General” Mundell taking his orders directly from Downing st. Any dissent whatsoever will be “ called out “ as “ unpatriotic “( in a British context) . Food ,Fuel and other energy supplies will be “ seized” and the Westminster government will ensure their needs will be prioritised above all. There will be the usual regular “ state propaganda regular broadcasts “ under the state of Emergency and possibly in certain areas there could be “ curfews “ imposed. The Holyrood parliament will have been “ temporarily suspended” ( for as long as they wish) and will be unable to intervene.
      Also , with TM now supposedly “ having discussions” with Corbyn , I would not be surprised if there is “ Britnat collusion “ underway to further undermine the SNP at Westminster & Holyrood. Our FM must wait for absolute clarity , as this goes to the wire , otherwise the “ Britnat establishment “ will “ cut the legs from under her” if ( although it looks unlikely at present” , there is a snap CE or article 50 is extended or even revoked at the last minute . Our wonderful FM holds a great hand , but she needs to play the cards at precisely the right time .I am confident she will !!

    68. Sarah says:

      @Ronnie – re Scottish Police to N Ireland – my “better half” emailed our MP Ian Blackford about it several days ago. No response yet so I shall email immediately – and to the Holyrood Minister responsible too.

      We don’t want Scotland drawn into this bourach – we and NI voted to Remain, for heaven’s sake. It is Westminster’s problem, not ours.

    69. Macart says:

      ‘the clear wishes of the Scottish people’

      Uh huh! Zattafac? I’m one of those ‘Scottish people’ and it’s not my wish. Sound’s more likely to be the clear wishes of the Labour party. Now that I could believe.

      Neatly done Rev.

      Also? As I recall, Better Together promised the population of Scotland that this situation of losing their EU membership is one they wouldn’t face so long as they voted no.

      Seems to me that Labour played no small part in creating the constitutional conflict we’re all now enjoying t’boot.

    70. defo says:

      Bloodnok!
      Yer back !
      No before time, the humour level hasn’t been up to scratch around here for a while now.

    71. Bobp says:

      Ronnie anderson 4.23pm. I should think their wives would have a bigger say.

    72. ronnie anderson says:

      Bobp They’ll get roon that backstop by saying single officers only

    73. Petra says:

      @ Daisy (3:08pm) …. “Sick of this.”

      I’m sick of it too Daisy as no doubt are the vast majority of posters on here. Sick of the way we’re treated, sick of the way we’re exploited and more than anything sick to the back teeth of how everything that we’re aware of, due to sites like this, is being suppressed by the MSM.

      G4? Maybe they’ll make up the numbers of the 1000 defence “employees” that Reporting Scotland was bleating on about last night? Thousands of defence workers and Civil Servants heading our way.

      It’s actually unbelievable when you consider what Westminster is doing to this country, such as taking even a miniscule chance of reigniting the troubles in Ireland (and dragging us into that) and of course beggaring us all … more so than we’re beggared already.

      Big T is going on about Scotland’s exports to England. Is she seriously trying to tell us that England, that has to import far more than it exports, is going to knock back essentials for living (the lives of 50 odd million), especially when their shelves could be half empty due to Brexit?

      And someone has pointed out that sites like this could be shut down before we know it. Not being melodramatic but maybe it’s time we made contingency plans? Maybe Stu has done so already?

    74. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Jack collatin @ 16:14 (among others),

      It’s clear that one of the very few arrows that BT2 will still have in its rhetorical quiver is the implicit threat of economic sanctions by a resentful England, despite the fairly evident “cut off nose” empty threat it represents due to the actual trade imbalance in our favour.

      Which does however make it all the more essential that we retain full membership of the EU to get the same armour-plate protection that Ireland is currently enjoying.

    75. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      “Re, exports to England what are they going to do without Scotlands…..” you say @Bill Purves at 4:16 pm

      Electricity
      Seed potatoes
      Fresh Water
      ‘Extra Regio” Tax reciepts
      etc.
      etc.

    76. wull2 says:

      Is the can kicked down the road for another two weeks, its time for the EU to say we want your response now, just like TM was told she had to come back in 3 working days, not 2 weeks.

      The EU should say, we can solve the Irish border by using the first vote, the countries that want should stay in the EU, will stay in EU. back to WM to accept it or reject it.

    77. Luigi says:

      Folks,

      I don’t want to scare ye, but we are approaching the edge of dangerous territory IMO. The British Nationalist establishment is panicking and will be utterly ruthless if it looks like losing Scotland. Martial law, Holyrood neutered, MSM utilised, indy bloggers arrested etc.

      How badly do you want independence?

      Are you willing to get in a wee bit of trouble fighting for it?

      I ask this of all independenistas, but especially of SNP politicians.

      We may have to go through a Catalonian phase, cos one thing id =s for sure, they won’t let us go without a fight and things can turn nasty quickly. The harder they come down, the less effective they will be however, and if they go all Spanish on us, they will have lost Scotland forever.

      I hope our SNP politicians are up for it – the people will support you.

      Are you ready?

    78. Giving Goose says:

      Paul Sweeney does not identify as Scottish.
      In his mind he is British.
      And that sentence encapsulates the problem.
      Britishness is just Englishness wrapped in a union jack.
      Sweeney’s loyalty is to England.
      He couldn’t give a shit about Scotland.
      Labour membership is a convenient vehicle for this.

    79. Aldo says:

      Lets just move on and let Westminster sort out Englands problems. They want to control there own borders. We want to be an equal partner in Europe. Easy give us a section 30 and were off with or without. So proud of the Irish at this moment in time. Karma comes to mind.

    80. Dr Jim says:

      Many English people still don’t understand what sovereignty is
      In England the parliament is soveriegn not the people
      In Scotland the people are sovereign not the parliament

      In truth it means the whole pretendy Brexit shemozzle that the English think they voted for could’ve been ignored by Westminster if they felt like it but the mad muppets in Tory Labour Westminster didn’t tell them that because it suited them, not the electorate

      For the Corbyn supporters: He could’ve told you that, he just didn’t want to because he’s the left hand of the Tories

      Right from the start the only people telling the truth and sticking to it have been the SNP who are shouted down from all sides for doing exactly what the people of Scotland asked them to do and the people of England are going to have to realise that although they don’t like it Scotland is and always will be a country……not a county council of England

      Haven’t they ever read a book down there, Books are where information is cleverly secretly concealed about facts and stuff, the Daily Mail is a comic y’know like *The Bunty*

    81. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      More complete delusional pish on R4 news this lunchtime. The presenter still taking seriously the prospect that May can toddle off on the Eurostar to Brussels and order those foreign johnnies to bow to her latest demands.

      You have to wonder how often these political & media people need to be poked with a sharp stick to wake up and see the realities staring them in the face.

      It’s painful watching this bizarre pantomime enacted. People on the Continent are laughing at all this, but it’s mockery, not pleasure. While real people here are going to pay a very high price to endure the show. A new recession, regardless of which kind of exit we are draggged in to, if we let them.

      Meanwhile there are people who claim to be indy supporters who are apparently very relaxed about having a whole further 10 years of this special agony, on the specious grounds that we have to get fully organised, somehow.

      Well, damn that.

    82. geeo says:

      Lay off the sauce Luigi, acting like you suggest means WM can justify such abuses towards Scots.

      Nobody here is buying into such pish.

    83. Robert Peffers says:

      @Socrates MacSporran says:30 January, 2019 at 1:11 pm:

      ” … Then all she will have to do is negotiate withdrawal with England – God help us, because, I reckon the hoops we will need to go through to be rid of the English political cancer will be even more difficult to negotiate than those the EU is almost finished negotiating.”

      There you go again, Socrates, following the Westminster totally illegal gobbledegook.

      Nicola cannot negotiate with, “England”, and for more than one very good legal fact.

      First of all there isn’t a legal parliament of either the country or the kingdom of England. Westminster is the Parliament of The United Kingdom and that will have just disunited. Scotland is not leaving the country nor the kingdom of England.

      The Kingdom of Scotland is disuniting the United Kingdom in which the Kingdom of Scotland is disuniting the union between itself and the Kingdom of England but Westminster is not elected as the parliament of the either the kingdom or the country of England. It will legally be the just disunited bipartite Kingdom Parliament that has been ended.

      In point of fact the legally sovereign authority, (that is the only remaining legal authority left) , is Her Majesty the Queen of England. However, there is a major legal problem there in that Her Majesty the Queen of England is also the Her Majesty, Queen of Scots but, not being sovereign under Scots law has a very obvious conflict of interests and cannot reasonably be forced to argue against herself in a court of law.

      Not to mention that, under Scots law, the legally sovereign people of Scotland can, (collectively), sack Her Majesty and choose, (collectively), another in her place.

      So just who is legally elected at Westminster for Nicola, or anyone else, to legally negotiate with?

      Mind you there is a rather old factor in that originally, under the old defunct parliament of the Kingdom of England the Prime Minister is legally Her Majesty of England’s Prime Minister but it is questionable if that ranking is applicable to the United Kingdom, which, of course, is not the Parliament of England.

      Now you may conclude that I am joking but in fact the above is the actual legal situation – Westminster has never been legally the elected as such Parliament of England since 30 April 1707.

      So legally the Kingdom of Scotland is not leaving the United Kingdom but is simply disuniting a bipartite United Kingdom.

    84. DerekM says:

      Oh look a little red tory porker with his nose stuck right in the precious union trough.
      Think this one has an ermine fetish usually given away with the lack of backbone present and the constant dribbling nonsense it talks.

    85. Clootie says:

      I am now convinced that a hard Brexit is certain. The Tories, DUP and the rebel Red Tories have a total control of Westminster. We are leaving….buckle up for the drop off the cliff edge.

    86. Dr Jim says:

      @Luigi

      There won’t be any need for anybody fighting except legally or verbally and there will be no Martial law in Scotland without permission of the devolved Scottish government because to do that would be breaking the treaty of Union and the legal end to the United Kingdom and as signatories to the UN conventions the UK would be subjecting itself to a UN judicial decision which they’d lose

    87. Maria F says:

      “The clear wishes of the people of Scotland do not involve different regulations between Scotland and the rUK”

      First of all, what is the “rUK”? That is the kingdom of England, so why not calling it for what it is?

      Secondly, the assertion made by this man is complete bollocks. Not only because of the fantastic surgical dissection of the matter that is so incisively and clearly presented by the Rev in the article above but for the fundamental reason that Scotland already has a devolved parliament and England does not. Scotland has a devolved government and England does not. The regulation of the NHS, education and law in Scotland and other matters are different to that of England and we are very happy that this is the case and may it long continue.

      The people of Scotland voted both in 1979 and in 1996 precisely for the ability to have different regulations than England in the form of having a separate Parliament for Scotland.

      Also, this gentleman has very poor memory. Perhaps somebody ought to remind him that his fellow Labour member Gordon Brown promised us Devo Max, if Scotland voted No in 2014. Cameron promised us to become the most devolved nation in the world and the wow promised us permanence of Holyrood and independence of Holyrood in devolved matters.

      Devo max means different regulations between Scotland and the kingdom of England in almost everything bar a handful of matters. Becoming the most devolved nation in the world means the same thing. Independence of Holyrood from Westminster in devolved matters means precisely that: the capability to regulate differently than England on those matters.

      So, quite frankly, the mere fact that the people of Scotland demanded their own parliament and voted for Devo Max is the best justification that is there to be that the people of Scotland do indeed want and, actually, actively seek different regulations between Scotland and the Kingdom of England.

    88. geeo says:

      RJS @5.16pm

      Well said, as “we will refuse to trade with an indy Scotland” becomes a rather empty threat when it becomes, “we refuse to trade with the EU because Scotland are in the EU”.

    89. Cubby says:

      Ian Brotherhood@2.49pm

      I noticed the volume of posts declined after your post. LOL

      At least being hung drawn and quartered has gone out of fashion. (I hope.)

    90. Dr Jim says:

      Remember Alistair Carmichael the big fat liar

      A politician can say anything they want they can’t be held accountable for it unless it’s written into law, they can lie cheat tell you anything they think you want to hear and they still don’t have to be held accountable for it

      Every week the Prime Minister lies at the dispatch box, she lied today at PMQs

      I don’t want those kind of politics in Scotland’s future I want trust to be counted as just that and anybody who won’t or can’t do it I don’t want them in my parliament

      The only confidence you can have in English politics is that you can have no confidence in anything they say

    91. Ghillie says:

      Solaway Firth to Berwick upon Tweed.

      Mind there’s some chat about Berwick wanting to rejoin Scotland =)

      It’s a lovely place with a very good speedway team!

    92. Our Brit Nat MPs’ MSPs, the Dead Tree Scrolls, and the broadcasters Up Here are all agents of the Iron Heel Oligarchy.
      They make no bones about it.
      They’d rather be England’s slaves and ‘faithful retainers’ than fight for Scotland’s freedom.
      May threatened Scotland with a siege today; starve us out financially and actually.
      Well, fuck you, May.
      When the history is written, wha would be a ‘tractor’ knave?
      Quite a few if the Judas Pay packet’s right.
      It’s all about to blow up in their faces.
      They are threaten our very lives now.
      What Scot is prepared to put up with, or defend this naked aggression?
      The gloves are off.

    93. yesindyref2 says:

      “SNP minister apologises after plugging speech by blogger with ‘abhorrent’ views”

      http://archive.is/0a46n

      Ms Todd apologised for retweeting information about Mr McCann’s upcoming Alness speech, which described him as a “great speaker with an important message”.
      She told the Daily Mail, which highlighted his views: “I was not aware of the, frankly, abhorrent views held by this individual and was horrified when they were pointed out to me.
      “Obviously I am sorry for having retweeted this event.”
      She added: “As soon as I was made aware, I contacted the organisers to share with them his views. They have, rightly, moved to cancel the event.”

    94. Ghillie says:

      Dr Jim @ 6.05 pm

      Very well said.

      It simply should not be necessary to have to express an exceptional expectation that ALL those who are voted into a position of power to represent the people SHOULD tell the truth!

      Isn’t it remarkable how quickly Carmichael’s lying has faded into political history?

      Well done for reminding us all of that dishonest man’s lies.

      As for the Prime Minister’s poor grasp of the truth and the facts, she should be branded a Dishonourable Member.

      Along with most of the useless numpties in Westminster.

    95. Inbhir Anainn says:

      As I see it if the UK wishes to trade with the 27 nations of the EU after brexit. It will require a trade deal. If Scotland votes for Independence and continues EU membership as the 28th nation, it will be included in that deal. Which means if the UK wants access to the EU 28 nations it will have no choice but to trade with an Independent Scotland.

      You trade with all 28 nations on the same terms OR you trade with none of them. + Scotland would have a say in the future relationship between the rUK and the EU, like Ireland has now!

      The choice is NOT therefore, Scotland trading with the EU OR the rUK. The choice is whether the rUK wants to trade with the EU (including Scotland) or lose trade with 28 countries.

    96. Luigi says:

      geeo says:
      30 January, 2019 at 5:48 pm
      Lay off the sauce Luigi, acting like you suggest means WM can justify such abuses towards Scots.
      Nobody here is buying into such pish.

      WM doesn’t need justification from anybody. WM does what WM does. Martial law will be declared in a few weeks (and Holyrood will be dealt with if it gets in the way). I’m not suggesting anyone gets violent, but peaceful protest may be required (and provocation will be ramped up). But hey ho if you think it’s all “pish” then nothing to worry eh?

      I don’t think you understand the beast we are up against.

    97. TJenny says:

      From WOS twutter:

      Spain to insist on excluding Gibraltar from any Brexit deal.
      (as Gib voted to reman in EU – remind you of anywhere else?)

      The plot thickens.

    98. Ghillie says:

      Inbhir Anainn 6.19 pm

      That’s an interesting point and wouldn’t please TM at all =)

      So when an Independent Scotland becomes the EU’s 28th, if England would like a trade deal with the EU, Indy Scotland will be on an equal footing with all the EU countries and that right will be defended by the EU.

      Of course Teresa May will, I presume, retire soon after brexit and won’t have long to wait till her call to the ermine.

    99. DerekM says:

      That is parliamentary sovereignty for you,you will have noticed when the tories speak about getting powers back from the EU they never mention the peoples sovereignty its always parliamentary sovereignty, or maybe you did not 😉

      The people of England having only been sovereign through being European citizens are about to lose that sovereignty so that westminster can retain that 100% parliamentary sovereignty over England and it is sad to say that it makes them serfs(the English word for it)in their own country.

      Of course as usual we Scots are a problem and should be ignored cause SNP bad,better together wobbly and shaky,flegs and rule Britannia and so on….

    100. Andrew Gordon says:

      Anyone who gives the Greens a second vote at any future election is putting Scotlands future in jeporday.
      Patrick Harveys total lack of reality is dumbfounding.
      Where Mr Harvie is the money to come from to fianance our deluded councils ?
      Scottish councils have millions in reserve but due to “politics” chose to have a permanent grievance with the SNP and not spend any of it.
      The utter lack of every party in Scotland, SNP excluded actually looking after the people of Scotland is bordering on criminal,
      I travel all over Scotland and at almost every turn see new infrastructure from the Scottish government along with huge investment from the EU, i hate with a passion all the parties in Scotland that think it is great to run my country down, shame on them and i will be looking forward to their complete u-turn when Scotland becomes independant, the back pedaling will be enough to power a small town !!

    101. euan0709 says:

      I have been following the comments regarding fears that Police Scotland Officers are being trained to perform street duty in Northern Ireland, with interest.
      For almost two years now I have been concerned about Police Scotland, Authorised Firearms Officers wearing the Union Flag, while on Duty and in Uniform.I have no doubt that some of the Officers and ACC Bernie Higgins in particular,view it as some sort of Para-military British Police Unit.
      Both the SPA and the Scottish Government have turned a blind eye to this increasing practice, allowing it to multiply and pretend ignorance of the political consequences.
      Once again I will leave the final word to the United States National Academy of Science.
      ” subliminal exposure to National Flags affects Political Thought and Behaviour”.

    102. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Robert Peffers

      Occasionally, Auld Boab, I think you just like arguing for argument’s sake.

      I have followed your arguments/lectures on the state of this here United Kingdom for years. Get real please, and stop arguing for the fun of it.

      REALPOLITIC

      The reality, as I see it is: England “conned” Scotland into signing up to the Treaty of Union in 1707. They never had any intention of sticking to the terms of that Treaty, and have been ignoring it and reading it to suit themselves since even before the ink was dry.

      As was said at the time: “Now we have catched Scotland, we must bind her tight,” and that is what they will try to do. As far as they are concerned, this supposed bipartite Union of Equals, was a case of Engand taking-over Scotland.

      Sadly, up until we elected a majority of SNP MPs, too-many Scottish MPs and “Noble Lords” went along with this falsehood.

      For all the mandate which the Scottish Government holds in Holyrood, Westminster will ignore it. It has make no difference to them that the SNP holds a majority of the Scottish seats in Westminster; that they have a mandate from Holyrood to hold an Independence referendum; and that the majority of Scots want Scotland to stay in the EU.

      They will do what they have done since 1707, they will ignore us, they will say no; they will pauchle things to try to keep us subservient.

      We will be dealing with Westminster, which means we will be dealing with England, and, as we well know, they will lie, cheat, prevaricate, change things mid-agreement, they will do everything we can think of, and more, to maintain Scotland as a colony of England.

      Indeed, in the highly-unlikely event of Theresa agreeing to a Section 30 order, they might well try the 1979 trick of putting a 40% rule on it. (And I know a Section 30 is only an agreement that both parliaments will respect the result.)

      Getting away from them will be incredibly hard.

    103. Karmanaut says:

      I was thinking about this the other night. Surely Scots would still be able to keep their UK passport, because they were born in the UK (or otherwise entitled to a passport) before Scotland left the UK. Their kids too, I imagine.

      Additionally, they would get a Scottish passport granting them the right to live and work in the EU.

      So from a Unionist point of view, most of them would still be “British” in an independent Scotland unless they chose to give up their “British” passport.

      The UK can’t force people to give up their passport just because they live in Scotland, any more than they could if they lived in Spain, and if pressed, would have to admit that Scots would keep their “British” passports, so would remain “British”. Because they can’t say yes you’re British if you live in Benidorm but not if you live in Bathgate.

      I couldn’t care less personally, but that passport will mean a lot to many people who voted No.

    104. hackalumpoff says:

      yesindyref2 30 January, 2019 at 6:13 pm

      “SNP minister apologises after plugging speech by blogger with ‘abhorrent’ views”

      Whose side are you on gadgie? expected more of you than to repeat yon Britnat pish.

      Jason says:
      https://twitter.com/Jeggit/status/1090641954264793090

    105. yesindyref2 says:

      @hackalumpoff
      So you don’t consider this inflammatory, and would happily support someone who says – in his own words – not “Britnat pish”?

      British soldiers returned to the streets of Northern Ireland. Good Friday Agreement now utterly defunct. Without peace, as the rules of war have it, these British soldiers are now legitimate targets.

      https://twitter.com/Jeggit/status/1089250108573708288

      Not in my name.

    106. Cubby says:

      Note: even SNP MPs as well as independence supporters still retain different measures of the cringe.

    107. hackalumpoff says:

      @ indyref 2

      Whose side are you on gadgie?

    108. yesindyref2 says:

      Sigh

    109. robbo says:

      Socrates MacSporran says:
      30 January, 2019 at 7:12 pm
      Robert Peffers

      Occasionally, Auld Boab, I think you just like arguing for argument’s sake.

      I have followed your arguments/lectures on the state of this here United Kingdom for years. Get real please, and stop arguing for the fun of it.

      REALPOLITIC

      The reality, as I see it is: England “conned” Scotland into signing up to the Treaty of Union in 1707. They never had any intention of sticking to the terms of that Treaty, and have been ignoring it and reading it to suit themselves since even before the ink was dry.

      As was said at the time: “Now we have catched Scotland, we must bind her tight,” and that is what they will try to do. As far as they are concerned, this supposed bipartite Union of Equals, was a case of Engand taking-over Scotland.

      Sadly, up until we elected a majority of SNP MPs, too-many Scottish MPs and “Noble Lords” went along with this falsehood.

      For all the mandate which the Scottish Government holds in Holyrood, Westminster will ignore it. It has make no difference to them that the SNP holds a majority of the Scottish seats in Westminster; that they have a mandate from Holyrood to hold an Independence referendum; and that the majority of Scots want Scotland to stay in the EU.

      They will do what they have done since 1707, they will ignore us, they will say no; they will pauchle things to try to keep us subservient.

      We will be dealing with Westminster, which means we will be dealing with England, and, as we well know, they will lie, cheat, prevaricate, change things mid-agreement, they will do everything we can think of, and more, to maintain Scotland as a colony of England.

      Indeed, in the highly-unlikely event of Theresa agreeing to a Section 30 order, they might well try the 1979 trick of putting a 40% rule on it. (And I know a Section 30 is only an agreement that both parliaments will respect the result.)

      Getting away from them will be incredibly hard.

      A big part of the Treaty of Union IMHO was to get a standing army for the Empire! to add to there own in England- they needed the Scots troops for the Empire conquests ,mostly for cannon fodder.

      Many Scots were angry and starving with no jobs and country in a mess because of lords and gentry betraying them and the failed Dairien scheme(scam). In them days foreign conquest, food to eat and money to send back home they went for it. After all what else did they have as alternative!?Sad but my take on it. Remember history is written by the victors and as we weren’t around in those days no one can discount this unless they’ve been alive for 300+ years!

      So unless we have someone on here who is immortal and was born on the banks of Glenfinnan and carries a 2000 year old Chinese sword then wheesht ! lol

    110. Socrates MacSporran says:

      What you are feeling robbo is called, the quickening.

    111. robbo says:

      Socrates MacSporran says:
      30 January, 2019 at 8:17 pm
      What you are feeling robbo is called, the quickening.

      Aye I wish lol

      Not sure if I can suffer 30 more days of this brexit mince. Dain ma nut in.If we don’t get Indy in next 2 years I’m off tae sunnier climes -feck this pish.

    112. Phronesis says:

      There will be no medicines (to treat the scurvy and rickets from mass starvation) and eventually the chips will run out after 2 weeks. Triangulating all perspectives from the worlds of business, health provision, agriculture, economics leads to the same conclusion- an abrogation of political competency and dereliction of human rights. The end of democracy at WM and the beginning of a new democracy for Scotland.

      ‘Hospitals could run out of drugs in the event of a no-deal Brexit, according to a leaked letter from a group representing NHS hospitals and ambulance services.
      There has been a failure to prepare for the dreaded “no deal” situation because of poor coordination between ministers and the health service, according to an email from NHS Providers…In the email, Chris Hopson, chief executive of NHS Providers described how a hard Brexit, or no deal, could disrupt “the entire supply chain of pharmaceuticals”.
      https://pharmaphorum.com/news/warning-over-nhs-drug-supply-as-no-deal-brexit-looms/

      ‘Time is running out to put in place contingency plans to ensure the smooth flow of materials post-Brexit, food and drink companies are being warned’
      https://www.foodmanufacture.co.uk/Article/2018/10/22/Food-firms-running-out-of-time-to-make-Brexit-contingency-plans

      ‘While the retailers said they have been working closely with suppliers on contingency plans, it is not possible to mitigate all the risks to supply chains…The retailers said that while they have been able to stockpile where possible on frozen and chilled goods, stockpiling fresh produce is “impossible” and they are typically only able to store two weeks’ worth’
      https://www.cips.org/en/supply-management/news/2019/january/retailers-warn-mps-of-no-deal-brexits-impact-on-food-supplies/

    113. geeo says:

      @Liugi.

      “I’m not suggesting anyone gets violent”
      ……
      “How badly do you want independence?

      Are you willing to get in a wee bit of trouble fighting for it”?
      …….

      This will be where you define “a wee bit of trouble”. …

    114. geeo says:

      With a cliff edge brexit Plan A most likely on the way, its a good job my wifes operation date for her double jaw joint replacement came through for the 27th March !!

      She has a wee chance of getting sent home on official brexit day plus ONE day (saturday 30th) with some pain relief to help her over the first few days.

      After a couple years of constant painkillers, she will be relieved she will no longer need then post brexit.

      I am still stuffed though.

    115. Kangaroo says:

      Karmanaut @ 7:23pm

      “Surely Scots will be able to keep a UK passport, because they were born in the UK”

      Well NO, they won’t. Simple reason is that after indy there will be no UK, there will be the Kingdom of Scotland and separately the Kingdom of England.

      So after indy you can choose to be a dual national, a citizen of two States, and have two, and only two passports. Scots and A.N.Other only.

      All people with UK passports living overseas will certainly have to make decisions. So if you are English born, living in Spain you would only be entitled to an English passport. Likewise a Scot living in Spain would only be entitled to a Scottish passport.
      If you were also a Spanish citizen you would be entitled to a Spanish passport.

      I am looking forward to applying for my shiny new Scottish passport to place alongside my Australian one.

    116. Muscleguy says:

      So, he wants to further flout the terms of the Treaty of Union and get rid of Scots Law, because that is the only way for regulations and laws to be homogenised across the border, which is a meaningful one because the laws are different on each side of it.

      Even the Labour dominated parliament in Wales is looking into separating out Welsh from English law for the first time since, when was it? 15thC? This is due to the increasing corpus of Welsh only law issuing from said parliament, meaning the Welsh border is becoming more and more meaningful post devolution.

      The Scots one has been much the same even with the final removal of the feu up here. That sort of petty, irritating difference in regulation did not bother Labour in Westminster one iota since they never got around to getting rid of it in the Scottish Grand Committee even when they had majorities both in WM and in Scottish MPs.

    117. Meg merrilees says:

      Hackalumpoff

      thanks for the link to the magnificent Ian Blackford

      Aye, May is running scared but did you see Fluffy’s face in the middle of all that, he looked like a wee laddie at school who thinks he’s about to get the belt!

    118. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Socrates MacSporran @ 19:12:

      Occasionally, Auld Boab, I think you just like arguing for argument’s sake.

      Amen to that! =laugh=

      Frankly, I don’t give a damn what the remainder of the ex-UK calls itself after we depart. That’s entirely their business.

      EngWaNi might be a good start!

      Whatever, I wouldn’t be at all surprised if they ended up always using “England”, and to hang with the remaining minor attachments. But if they insisted in formally retaining the name “UK” to save face, and allowed all citizens of the new Scotland to retain their existing soon-to-be-blue passports, if that helps some people get over the new disposition, so much the better.

    119. ronnie anderson says:

      hackalumpoff just wait to see what the Scotsman has in store for Jason , the presses are rolling lol.

    120. McBoxheid says:

      DerekM says:
      30 January, 2019 at 6:48 pm

      The people of England having only been sovereign through being European citizens are about to lose that sovereignty so that westminster can retain that 100% parliamentary sovereignty over England and it is sad to say that it makes them serfs(the English word for it)in their own country.
      ————————————————————-
      Does this mean we will no longer be citizens and become subjects once again?

    121. Clootie says:

      Kangaroo

      You are wrong about the number of passports you can have.
      a) under the current system you could have multiple passports if you qualify I.e. British / Irish / French etc
      b) nobody knows what the Scottish dual nationality rules would be. They have not been written yet.

    122. Tony O"neill says:

      When are the snp in Edinburgh and Westminster going to take the fuckin gloves off with these fuckers? Or are they gutless cowards?

    123. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “May I ask, what the plan is if England gets hard brexit Scotland pushes indyref2 and stays in the EU an hard border with England would be needed, right? They will use that as an argument and it will have an heavyweight on soft yes an no voters.”

      So, you… you didn’t actually read the article, then?



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