stooges of the Kremlin

Wings Over Scotland


The squandered bounty

Posted on September 22, 2016 by

It’s long been a bone of contention for Scots – and not just nationalists – that the UK government, by common agreement, wasted the vast wealth windfall of the North Sea on funding Margaret Thatcher’s 1980s programme of deliberate de-industrialisation, mass unemployment, huge tax cuts for the wealthy and bribes to the working class in the form of Right To Buy.

It did so rather than investing the proceeds in a sovereign wealth fund, as demanded by the SNP (and some elements of Labour) and practiced in Norway, whose fund – only set up in 1990 – is now a literal embarrassment of riches.

bennoilfund2

But the reality is even worse than that. Because according to a 2015 report by the National Resource Governance Institute that’s just come to our attention, the truth is that if the UK had managed its North Sea treasure better, it could have done both.

We’ll leave you to read the full report for yourself. But if you’re in a hurry, this extract will give you the gist:

nrga

“The UK and Norway both began offshore exploration and production in the mid-1960s with the first oil discoveries made in 1969. Since then, both countries have produced similar amounts of hydrocarbons: the UK has produced 42.8 billion barrels of oil equivalent (boe) and Norway 40 billion boe.

uknorwayoilproduction

Whilst the geology and resource base in each country is similar, the two countries have taken very different approaches to governance of the sector. Since 1986 the UK government has had effectively no direct equity participation in the North Sea and has had a fully private upstream sector, with taxation as the only channel of government revenues from hydrocarbons.

Norway has taken a different approach, with over 50 percent of production coming through Statoil (of which the state owns a majority) and state ownership of assets via the State Direct Financial Interest (SDFI), held through Petoro (wholly owned by the state). Norway generated more than double the revenue the UK did from each barrel it produced.

uknorwayoilrev

The purpose of this article is not to debate whether the current UK tax regime is optimal today, but rather examine why the Norwegian approach to oil governance in the past appears to have generated so much more revenue.”

Or if you’re REALLY pressed for time, here it is as a cartoon.

cairnsoil

A right-wing privatisation ideology undertaken by Westminster governments that were rejected by Scotland at every election has already thrown away vastly more money from the North Sea – literally hundreds of billions of pounds, enough money to completely fund the entire Scottish Government budget for a decade – than it’s made.

uknorwayoilrevs

That milk is spilt now. But there are still tens of billions of barrels of oil off Scotland’s shores. It’s still not too late to take control of it and do an infinitely better job for the future than Westminster has done in the past and present.

Scotland has also been blessed by fate with a second generous gift, an almost unmeasurable potential for renewables, which risks suffering the same fate if it remains in the hands of the Conservatives, even before considering the impact of a loss of EU subsidies as a result of Brexit.

renewables

Whether Scotland can afford to lose out on such a massive scale twice in the space of a couple of generations is a question only its people can answer.

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    1. 22 09 16 12:56

      The squandered bounty | speymouth

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      The squandered bounty | Referendum 2018 | Scoo...

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    431 to “The squandered bounty”

    1. Macart says:

      You’d need a heart of stone not weep at lost opportunities, or the wasted lives and industry.

      The suffering and misery caused by successive governments and their epic mishandling of our resources and the overall economy has been nothing short of criminal.

    2. Grouse Beater says:

      One of the great crimes perpetrated by Westminster, theft of Scotland’s oil, and squandering it on gambling and money laundering.

      For that reason alone Scotland should eject corrupt UK rule.

    3. One_Scot says:

      If Scotland does not vote Yes for IndyRef2, then there is something seriously wrong somewhere.

    4. Proud Cybernat says:

      You do make my blood boil sometimes, Rev.

      This is a scandal of epic proportions.

      FFS SCOTLAND. OPEN YOUR EFFING EYES AND SEE HOW WESTIMINSTER RULE IS SHAFTING YOU STUPID.

    5. skintybroko says:

      Pointing out what McCrone did all those years ago Scotland would have been rich beyond its wildest dreams – yes there is still a chance but this report will be ignored and poo poo’d by the better together mob. Until we get independence we will never reap the benefits of our own resources which will be continually eroded by policies from corrupt incompetent unionists who are only out to fill their own pockets.

    6. Fergus Green says:

      Another brilliant analysis Stuart and one that merits being printed on a leaflet and distributed through letterboxes throughout Scotland.

    7. Free Scotland says:

      For the old neighbours who don’t use the internet, it’s a matter of print PDF, copy, circulate.

    8. CameonB Brodie says:

      Nothing can be done about lost opportunities other than try and avoid similar in the future. Obviously that would require a structural analysis that might actually discover gross criminality, such as the deception of the McCrone Report being hidden from Scots.

      @ HMG
      What about the people of Scotland’s Right to Development?

      The right to development is an inalienable human right by virtue of which every human person and all peoples are entitled to participate in, contribute to, and enjoy economic, social, cultural and political development, in which all human rights and fundamental freedoms can be fully realized.” (Article 1.1, Declaration on the Right to Development)

      “The human right to development also implies the full realization of the right of peoples to self-determination, which includes, subject to the relevant provisions of both International Covenants on Human Rights, the exercise of their inalienable right to full sovereignty over all their natural wealth and resources.” (Article 1.2)

      http://www.un.org/en/events/righttodevelopment/pdf/rtd_at_a_glance.pdf

    9. ROBBO says:

      My family think I am overly grumpy these days but it just breaks my heart to see this wonderful and potentially rich country being systematically robbed of its wealth. When I encounter voter apathy/ignorance on the doorstep it makes my blood boil. I know we should reaching out to previous ‘NO’ voters but underneath I feel like screaming that these idiots (sorry I forgot myself there) have kept this country back for most of my working life. I am now nearing 70 and have 4 young grandchildren and next to my famiuly my country is the next most important thing to me and I am determined not to let them down. If anyone visiting WOS is still undecided about where this country’s future lies then you need to take a long hard look at yourself and get of your butt and get involved in freeing this country from these loathsome Union.

    10. manandboy says:

      An imperial power is not in the business of finding oil & gas and then giving the proceeds to the natives.
      The quicker No voters realise that they are no different in English eyes than Australian Aborigines or North American Red Indians, the better.

    11. Marko says:

      Call me paranoid, but I am convinced that the recent cuts to renewable subsidies and carbon capture schemes were a direct attack on emerging Scottish industries in anticipation of a possible IndyRef2.

    12. Proud Cybernat says:

      So, roughly, every Norwegian was paid £240 whilst every person in the UK was paid £7.69. Even if indy Scotland had managed the resource as poorly as the UK (which we definitely would not) we’d have been paid £100 per person in Scotland rather than £7.69.

      Get a grip, Scotland.

    13. Donnchadh says:

      The question is, in an independent Scotland would it be possible to restructure the industry so more revenue goes into public hands?

    14. heedtracker says:

      But this is the exact antithesis of endless and massive BBC led propaganda, Scots oil bad, UKOK oil good.

      Apart from the 55% NO 2014, Scots oil bad is one of the BBC’s greatest propaganda triumphs in the modern era. And if UKOK reality for the Scotland region makes you mad, for christ sake never ever visit Norway.

    15. Capella says:

      Benn’s diaries at the time reveal that North Sea Oil and Gas was seen as a bonanza for Westminster to get them out of a financial hole. Didn’t stop Callaghan going to the IMF for loans which, in Benn’s opinion, were no longer needed now that oil was on stream.

      Criminal? A human rights crime IMO.

    16. Neil Ralley says:

      How could anyone possibly believe that Scotland could not make a better job of managing its own resources than an English government in London? It really is time for the Kingdom to become untied.

    17. Luigi says:

      Tragic. What a senseless waste. The worst disgrace IMO is not so much that WM squandered the vast wealth of the North Sea, and that the people were duly duped.

      No, the most disgusting aspect of this entire sorry affair is that the politicians of Scotland allowed it to happen. I suppose they were too busy feeding themselves at the trough to worry about the people they were supposed to be representing.

    18. manandboy says:

      A question for all No voters:

      If North Sea oil & gas made Norway so wealthy, how did the same amount of oil & gas leave Scotland so poor?

    19. jimnarlene says:

      We (Scotland) must escape the thieves in suits, that claim to represent our interests; when in fact they care about London’s interests second, and their own first.
      If we do not, we are doomed to repeat history, we will be ripped off again; to pay for the money men’s gambling habits and the pretence of a “Great” Britain.

    20. Capella says:

      @ Manandboy – I was reminded of the Ogoni people in the Niger delta. More dangerous for them and Ken Sara Wiwa, who was judicially murdered by the state for protesting about the destruction of their economy.
      http://platformlondon.org/background/the-ogoni-struggle/

    21. Andrew McLean says:

      Sorry only one word springs to mind, BASTSARDS! a bunch of fucking Bastards.
      sorry that two words, but I don’t know of any other that describes that rat infested sewer full of the most disgusting specimens of political scum known to man, that calls itself westminster that whore mother of all parliaments!

    22. Luigi says:

      I think, perhaps we need to produce a Wee Oil Book, just to highlight how well Norway has done and how much we have been shat on. Something we can deliver to everyone’s door. People need to be reminded every bloody day until it finally sinks in.

    23. Proud Cybernat says:

      @ Manandboy
      “A question for all No voters:

      If North Sea oil & gas made Norway so wealthy, how did the same amount of oil & gas leave Scotland so poor?>/i>

      ‘Cause we’re subsidie junkies, dontcha know.

    24. Smallaxe says:

      Please everyone:

      I posted at 12:49 on end of last thread as I did not want to
      spoil the fun we were all having,please take a few minutes to
      look back,it’s not just ourselves that we could be helping with an oil fund, I know all Wingers would wish to help others
      also.Thank you

      Peace Always ALLWAYS

    25. mike cassidy says:

      That Norwegian Wealth Fund is definitely badass!

      http://archive.is/yYx13

    26. Jack Murphy says:

      When I see people I know struggling to make ends meet and failing—-I weep.

    27. Noel Darlow says:

      Yet another example of bad government within the union but, looking to the future, we cannot look at fossil fuels as a source of revenue to be exploited to the full. We have to leave them in the ground just as far as we possibly can.

    28. Ian says:

      And before North Sea oil was squandered the UK pissed away the Marshall Aid that it got from the US after 1945. The UK got $2.7 billion as against the $1.7 billion that West Germany got. The Germans invested in productive assets and the UK …….. didn’t.

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/british/modern/marshall_01.shtml

      Then what about all the money the UK government got from selling public assets from the 1980’s onwards.

      And yet they have the nerve to state that Scotland couldn’t manage itself. Add in the McCrone report about things could have been and it beggars belief that the Yes vote wasn’t and isn’t around 80%.

    29. Mike says:

      Ive always said Westminster is a haven for organised crime syndication posing as political authority.
      How much more evidence is needed to prove the point?
      The deliberate syphoning of public funding into private pockets is just a singular example of the multitude of crimes perpetrated under the guise of Government.
      Problem is people are too busy dealing with their own day to day shit to care or take any notice let alone protest.
      And so it will continue.

    30. Another Union Dividend says:

      Stu

      According to the disloyal Red Tory MP for Morningside, we dealt with all this nonsense two years ago and the SNP should get on with the day job and sort out their mess.

      From to-day’s Edinburgh Evening News

      https://archive.is/e68Yo

    31. unchillfiltered says:

      Would love that Chris Cairns cartoon on a t shirt. Any chance?

    32. Clootie says:

      …but you keep finding good resources in the wrong part of the U.K.

      It is just as well we have those Scots and have bound the fast.

    33. Iain More says:

      It just reaffirms my disgust and loathing for the Yoons in Scotland who aided and abetted in this process and continue to do so. I am being polite about it and very restrained.

      OT

      So we are to get a choice “maybe” between a so called Scottish Six and a so called Scottish Seven. I am completely underwhelmed by the choice. They will both be equally toxic. It merely gives both of them extra time to attack the SNP and SG and even more time to denigrate and put down Scotland and the Scots.

      Pick your poison – The Brit Nat Brainwashing Corp trashing Scotland Brand or the Britannia TV Aberdeen Brand. How long will it take both of them to accuse the SNP/SG of mass murder, ethnic cleansing and genocide as they try to outdo each other in a spurious ratings war for a declining Yoon audience and one that is getting increasingly senile?

      It will be the of button for me whatever. I am not going to switch on to the same lying bastards!

    34. Clootie says:

      …and don’t forget that we burnt off at least 30percent of the gas to get the Oil because we had no gas pipeline system.

      Think of that as wasted revenue and damage to the environment. It was 40 degC at times on the deck because of the huge flares.

      Why has that story never been told?

    35. Gail Hughes says:

      I read an economics article some time before the first Independence referendum. Written as an analysis of the UK economy and not from a pro- or anti- Independence standpoint. The gist of it was that it was only the revenues from oil that had propped up a failing UK economy for years. If oil is running out as the unionists tell us, what are they going to do when they have no more public sector assets to sell off to raise revenue? The UK economy is in terminal decline unless the government does something radically different. Austerity, leaving the EU and tax and public spending cuts aren’t that something.

      I read another article recently by a Labour Party in Scotland figure (can’t remember who, even though there aren’t that many) writing about Independence. He obviously thought he was making a clever analogy with Scotland’s oil economy when he said why would he want to give up his place on the ocean liner to take his chance on an oil tanker. I would suggest it is a more relevant analogy to ask, would he want to give up his place on the Titanic to take his chance in a life boat.

    36. manandboy says:

      Thanks Capella. I read the story of the Ogoni. So desperate their plight and no one to help them. By comparison we have been treated lightly. I’ll never buy another drop of petrol from Shell.
      God help the Ogoni.

    37. call me dave says:

      @Marko

      Join that long queue of folk in Scotland who have all reached that conclusion…. 🙂

      The mandarins in WM have, among their other duties (soon to include Brexit negotiations), busy little spiders who are constantly spinning webs of deceit and lies to thwart anything the SG may have at their disposal to improve our lot.

      But I may be paranoid.

      eg: https://archive.is/pDMj9

    38. Chitterinlicht says:

      Probably the best example I can think of to explain to anyone why Britain is not great but is in fact quite shite.

      I am also pretty sure that we all would not be here if Thatcher hadn’t blown all of this resource and sold off all the other national assets.

      This did and does upset me.

    39. Roseanne says:

      Wish we could sue the thieving gits!

    40. Still Positive. says:

      What still makes me really angry is the despair in Scotland in the 1980s. I clearly remember watching friends and neighbours losing their jobs and not able to get another, others living with the fear hanging over them.

      We were lucky as my husband was a civil servant, although earning less than tradesmen you knew the salary was there at the end of the month. Sadly not the case now.

      My privately-educated friend had to get a job in a local factory when her husband lost his job.

      When I think of the oil lost to Scotland and squandered in London, how much better it could have been for those children and their parents in the 80s if the government had followed McCrone’s advice and invested it in West/Central Scotland.

    41. Black Joan says:

      Speechless with rage . . .

    42. Smallaxe says:

      Andrew McLean says:
      22 September, 2016 at 1:12 pm
      “Sorry only one word springs to mind, BASTSARDS! a bunch of fucking Bastards.”

      I have another word springing to mind Andrew.

      MURDERERS totally Evil greedy psychopathic MURDERERS

      DONE IN OUR NAME!!

    43. Tinto Chiel says:

      A great article with super graphics, Rev, and the Cairnstoon is brilliant. No wonder Hamish is raging.

      The incompetence and mendacity of WM is jaw-dropping but no MSM journalist will mention any of this.

      And we can’t access out West Coast oil fields because Trident must have maritime access so the UK can waggle its wee plutonium willie at the world.

      Marko @ 1.01: you’re not paranoid. WM wants to destroy whatever future Scottish assets it can’t control(they’ve already calculated we’ll probably be independent soon). This is known as pooling and sharing.

      As Proud Cybernat said, wake up, No Voters.

      When I think of them, I always remember that line from The Magnificent Seven: “If God had not wanted them sheared, he wouldn’t have made them sheep”.

      When will the penny drop?

    44. Bill McDermott says:

      It is surely time to resurrect the ‘It’s Scotland’s Oil’ meme but this time to draw that simple comparison between how much money Norway got from a barrel of oil and how much Westminster got.

      This is surely a definitive display of the ineptitude of Westminster and particularly the Tories. How do we get the message out beyond social media into the mainstream media? Surely, it is time for a Michael (?)to do a job for us and get it out for cinema release as he did with the gun lobby in America. After all he rails against the forces of globalisation and neo-liberal capitalism. What more evidence does he want than what Westminster under Thatcher and the Blairites and the City of London did to harvest our natural resources for themselves and their friends.

    45. liz g says:

      Call me Dave & Marco @ 1.44
      I’ve joined that que as well.
      Read somewhere in the past few weeks and I can’t remember where, that Scotland apart from Faselane was being systematically demilitarised.
      We’re mentioning here issues with our emerging renewables being stymied or bought out.
      As the Rev has shown they can no longer hide the criminal (people have died because of poverty’s many affects) way they handled the Oil.
      As some have said we live in an age where information like the article above can’t as yet be suppressed.
      So yes I do believe that just as quietly and as underhandedly as the oil was “managed”,they are preparing to be flung out and are acting as they always have,by doing as much damage as they can.

    46. Vronsky says:

      “and practiced in Norway”

      Rev,I can forgive you many things. But American spelling? As a verb, it is ‘practised’.

      Go and do some very energetic self-flagellation, or whatever you religious types do to deal with sin.

    47. Fireproofjim says:

      Proudcybernar@1.02
      It is a lot worse than that.
      About two years ago every Norwegian (man woman and child) became a Kroner millionaire through their share of the Sovereign wealth fund.
      That is to say they are each worth more than £100,000, invested long term in pensions and infrastructure.
      Scotland literally does not have a penny from oil, and those that say Scotland is worse off because of the falling oil price should be told in no uncertain terms that not a penny ever came to Scotland to spend. It was all squandered by Westminster.
      This is the biggest financial scandal ever to have been perpetrated upon Scotland.
      There is still time and there is still oil out there to try to repair some of the damage, but never under Westminster rule.

    48. muttley79 says:

      @Luigi

      Tragic. What a senseless waste. The worst disgrace IMO is not so much that WM squandered the vast wealth of the North Sea, and that the people were duly duped.

      No, the most disgusting aspect of this entire sorry affair is that the politicians of Scotland allowed it to happen. I suppose they were too busy feeding themselves at the trough to worry about the people they were supposed to be representing.

      All too true I am afraid. Darling and company did not work up suntans, membership of the House of Lords, business and banking consultancies for nothing.

    49. Capella says:

      @ Proud Cybernat. Some interesting clips in your GALLAS video. Could be expanded too. The Tony Benn diaries have info on the advent of oil. Will try to locate where this is but it may take some time as it was during his recorded readings broadcast by the BBC some time ago.

    50. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Our much-maligned elderly ‘No’ voters were in their mental/physical prime when this theft was underway.

      Perhaps they just ‘didn’t have the information’ back then?
      Or ‘naebdy telt me!’?

      They’ve got the information now, and they’ve been well-telt.

      Any more excuses?

    51. manandboy says:

      The thing about the Unionists is that in their tribe, there is a place for the supremely wealthy – the monarchy, the aristocracy and those raised up by honours and titles.
      To the unionist masses, these are demi-gods and are beyond reproach of any kind. That Scotland’s oil wealth has gone to the ruling classes is no sweat to Unionists. Any more than footballers earning millions through TV revenues paid to the clubs – the fans don’t mind. The Unionists dont mind. In exchange, they get to be ‘the people’, whose Queen it is and whose territory they live in. Hence, WATP.

      But hey, it’s not over.

    52. Artyhetty says:

      Ah, will catch up with comments later, but was at the Dundee Rep play, ‘The Cheviot, The stag and the black black oil’ yesterday at the Lyceum, it was really brilliant. The matinee was full of mostly older folks, and school kids. Great.

      And was just reading up on some geology and searched for Siccar point, Hutton’s unconformity 🙂

      What also came up was a company called Siccar Point, I am not sure it’s ok to share, but look at what they are investing in on their website. I hadn’t heard of them before.

      Plenty of oil and gas in the north sea, just not for Scotland. 🙁

    53. Proud Cybernat says:

      Robbed blind…

      http://imgur.com/a/O8gv3

      Far n wide, folks – far n wide…

    54. Graf Midgehunter says:

      Luigi at 1.12pm

      “I think, perhaps we need to produce a Wee Oil Book, just to highlight how well Norway has done and how much we have been shat on.”

      We’ve had the WBB, Wee Black Book, We Bleu Book.

      Just think of what the Indy2 campaign and YES groups up and down the country could do with a series of books on their stalls/events.

      Wee Oil Book

      Wee Pension Book

      Wee Currency Book

      Wee Media Book

      etc, etc.

      Dedicated older YES people with a “Wee Pension Book” targeting the over 65’s. Education, education.

      We should be doing our homework now cos when the A50 gets called time will be in short supply.

    55. Proud Cybernat says:

      Wee Silver Book – for the silver haired generation.

    56. JimAuldReekie says:

      The fact is the UK produced slightly more oil & gas than Norway, yet Norway received roughly 2.5 x more money than the UK, during the same period.
      This shocking statistic of Westminster gross mismanagement needs to be known by all Scots.
      I was in Norway in June last year. I saw lots of new build projects on the go. (roads, houses, business park and a retail park)
      One dual carriageway from a fjord had ten tunnels through mountains up to the top of another mountain, I thought an engineering marvel.
      Norway has its Wealth Fund for its people and uses the fund to improve the lives of its people.
      Compare that to the UK, giving its oil wealth to the corporate/elite.
      I fear a similar fate for our renewable energy, if we don’t free ourselves from the Westminster yoke.

    57. Chic McGregor says:

      I know the SNP does not often get a link from here, well not in comparison to its size, but they are the Government and they do have access to the facts.

      Worth a read from March this year:

      http://www.snp.org/scotland_s_finances_what_you_need_to_know

    58. heedtracker says:

      Its not just the waste of not Scottish oil and gas that should be discussed. Its the staggering difference between UKOK and Norwegian offshore industrial relations, pay and working conditions. Everyone knows Snatcher Thatcher de-reged industrial offshore everything really. UKOK shareholder is god, everything else was left to big oil that bought Scots oil and gas cheap as UKOK chips in the 80’s.

      It meant all kinds of hellish shit really. Rigs blowing up, choppers like the Chinook dropping in to the North Sea, untrained rig workers killed in an instant or maimed for life, let alone the lousy pay, no job security and perpetual threat of layoffs, shit food and work gear.

      A kid up the road from us lost his life on Piper Alpha. They never found his body and his mum looked really ill for years. Giant City pension funds, big oil co’s like BP and Shell run by incredibly high pay posh tory crooks, filthy rich dudes like Ian Wood made more money than god but its not been worth it for a lot of Scots.

    59. Capella says:

      It’s not all plain sailing – pouring money into infrastructure projects in the SE. Protesters are against the “Lower Thames Crossing” a massive £6 b tunnel for all the freight traffic rolling into the area.

      “The plan is to construct a dual carriageway that will pass under the Thames in order to link the A2/M2 in North Kent with the A13 and M25 in Southern Essex, to alleviate the congestion over the Dartford Bridge and help trucks to thunder from the Chunnel at Folkestone to the East Coast container ports and the squalid, sprawling grey hangers of the Midlands’ distribution mega-hubs such as Magna Park.

      The utopian desire of the transport planners is to create a frictionless system with the minimum of delays in the passage of goods from farm and factory to hub and home. An estimated £6 billion will be spent in an attempt to ensure that everything is kept in motion.”

      Linked to this is the plan for a Silvertown Tunnel near Woolich and also the expansion of Heathrow. What a headache it must be having to cater for all that International Finance Capital.

      “All of these massive concrete constructions aim to further facilitate, and entrench, a distinct image of London, as a site of international finance capital.”

      http://platformlondon.org/2016/09/06/everything-in-motion-of-swallows-and-resistance-to-the-lower-thames-crossing/

    60. ClanDonald says:

      There was a very good reason that an oil fund was never created. It’s the same reason that one will never be created in the future. Quite simply Scotland would be able to claim ownership of it. It would make independence even more attractive if a multi billion pound fund was part of the settlement.

      Instead it was decided to invest it in infrastructure in the south west; road and rail networks, sewers, tunnels, flood barriers, ports, airports. That way London could benefit from Scotland’s oil for generations to come and Scotland could never have a claim over it.

    61. manandboy says:

      From Peat Worrier on Twitter, and the Times
      http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/scotland/look-to-ireland-for-scotlands-brexit-answers-w2nfs9gr3

      The contrast is stark.
      In Belfast, the secretary of state for Brexit, David Davis, reassured anxious locals: “We had a common travel area between the UK and the Republic of Ireland many years before either country was a member of the European Union. We are clear we do not want a hard border — no return to the past — and no unnecessary barriers to trade.” In Dublin, the secretary of state for Northern Ireland, James Brokenshire, stressed the “really strong will” — the “strong commitment” — to work constructively with the Irish government to find a solution to the border problems which the Brexit vote has generated. In Stormont, the Prime Minister herself declared that ‘nobody wants to return to the borders of the past “.

      And in Glasgow? Enter David Mundell. The Secretary of state for Scotland is clearly the “nobody” that Mrs May had in mind.
      “The only way to guarantee an open border between England and Scotland is to stay part of the same Union”, he burbled.

      So we have a wnole set of political reasons for an open border in Ireland and a whole set of political reasons why an open border between England and Scotland would be unthinkable with Independence. Politics conducted by a Colonial bully.

    62. Morag says:

      Every time I read articles like this I quite literally want to cry. The waste of something that should have given everyone in this country a secure future, and when I say this country I mean the UK. Yes, there are ten times as many people in the UK as in Norway, but Norway is absolutely obscenely rich. Even divided among ten times as many people that sort of money would eliminate serious poverty in all age groups and allow investment to ensure both low unemployment and excellent infrastructure.

      If successive UK governments had husbanded this resource well and used it genuinely for the benefit of everyone, and had acknowledged Scotland as the source of the largesse, I think it would have bound the union together and there would be much less support for independence.

      Instead they used our resource to deindustrialise our country, throw a generation on the dole, and now they jeer at us, claiming that we’re bankrupt beggars.

      I need to go find some tissues. It’s a tragedy that makes Hamlet look like a minor family squabble.

    63. Proud Cybernat says:

      O/T

      Here’s the lead political story in today’s online Herald:

      http://imgur.com/a/4V0aJ

      Now. If you read beyond the headline you will find that the MSP involved is actually a Tory MSP. (You can be sure of course that were it an SNP MP guilty of this then the headline would most certainly have read “SNP MSP ….” So, why not “Tory MSP….”?

      Notice also that without actually declaring the party involved, the Herald, by including a photo of someone wearing a Scottish Saltire over their shoulders, effectively implies that the guilty MSP is a nationalist. Few read beyond the headline or the picture and so, it was an SNP MSP wot done it. Job done.

      This is just one small example of the insidious nature of how the colonial media in Scotland operates and manipulates the narrative and brainwashes people into thinking what they want them to think.

      Nasty, nasty, nasty.

      Herald, yer tea’s oot.

    64. DerekM says:

      @ Luigi

      That is good idea Luigi though half the booklet should contain the history of Norway`s oil production along with pictures of Norway and the other half should contain Scotland.

      No vote indy no vote SNP just a plain non political booklet showing comparison.

      We should do the same with pensions as well if we plaster the booklets with indy it might put a few blockhead yoons off from reading it.

    65. The Red Blue and Yellow Tories will not be content until they have crushed their fellow Scots into the ground, and drained our land of its natural resources.
      The Blue Tories will not rest until our publicly owned and accountable services and institutions are sold off for peanuts, to their relatives in the City, and civic Scotland is reduced to the standards of the 1920s and the 1930s.
      Ruth and her vile gang are Elitists. The belted earls, the filthy rich, the merchants, the Big Grocers, consider it their divine right to rule over us and own the country’s wealth, assets, and indeed its people through wage slavery and debt serfdom.
      The richest 1% of the UK own more than 20 times the total wealth of the poorest fifth, making the UK one of the most unequal in the developed world.
      634,000 Brits are worth 20 times more than the poorest 13 million.
      An Oxfam report states:-
      ‘Three decades of high inequality has had a profound impact’. Now that’s the understatement of the..three decades.
      Data from Credit Suisse shows that 10% of the UK population own 54% of the country’s wealth.
      The top 1% own nearly a quarter(23%), while the poorest 20% own a miniscule 0.8%.
      Ruth Davidson, WATP Professor Two Jobs Adam Tomkins, WATP Murdo Fraser, Jackson Carlaw, Baroness Goldie, and The Darling Duds of May, Johnson, Fox, and Davis, will fight tooth and nail, lie through their teeth, threaten and bully their fellow Scots citizens, just to maintain this Iron Boot Oligarchy.
      Dugdale and that bumptious little man Murray, and the rest of the Red version of Ruth’s privileged and pampered elite are just as bad.
      They robbed us of our oil, and we stood by and let them.
      Well, no more. I observed earlier that we are at war. A war of words and ideas.
      If you vote Tory, of any hue, you are voting for this evil to continue.
      No more Mr Nice guy. No more PC shit.
      They are savaging our country on behalf of their their masters Down There. But then again we already knew that.

      A timely reminder, Stu, about how sinister and uncaring the Unionist ProudButScots puppets have become.
      I truly detest their politics.

    66. Ken500 says:

      Westminster took the Oil revenues and wasted it on 50million instead of 5Million. In Norway it benefited 5million. It was not wasted on 50million. Thatcher had three million unemployed. Paid in Disproportionately in Scotland. Paid in Oil revenues. The wealth spent in London S/E on Tilbury docks, Canary Wharf. ‘loads of money’ bankers. Interest rates at 15%. Thatcher centralised UK transport around London. Creating congestion and chaos. Thatcher was a lying criminal.

      The North/South divide deliberately disenfranchised Scotland. Westminster illegal secretly and lies. Hidden under the Officials Act. Labour kept the McCrone Report under the Official Secrets Act. Lied and lied again. Illegal wars, tax evasion and banking fraud. The Oil revenues wasted by Labour Unionists. Massive debt. Brown and Blair should be in jail for crimes against humanity.

      Blair is moving his wreath into charitable trusts. To avoid tax and claims when he is sued for illegal war crimes. Westminster Unionist multimillionaires and their associates are dispicable. Enough is never enough.

      The Westminster Treasury are still mismanaging the Oil sector. With taxes at 60/80% when the price had fallen 75%. The tax regime should be set on price. The Tories/Osbourne have destroyed the Oil sector and lost Scotland £Billions of revenues and thousands of jobs. £20Billion+

      Scotland benefits from Oil sector work and contracts worldwide.

    67. Sinky says:

      Why is it that MSM / BBC et al refuse to query the fact that UK oil revenues have fallen 99% since 2014 yet oil price has fallen by only 54% and output actually increased by 15 to 20%.

      Why it is that Norway, with roughly twice the North Sea oil and gas output of the UK, raised £9500 million in oil revenues in 2015 whereas the UK only raised £76 million?

      Is this down to tax avoidance by multi-national oil companies?

    68. Andrew McLean says:

      Jack Collatin says:3:39

      That post Jack is one of the best I have read on wings in a long time.

    69. Smallaxe says:

      Morag,Petra,liz g,Nana

      Please see previous thread at the very last post.Thanks
      I will post on the bottom of that thread now for your perusal

      Peace Always

    70. manandboy says:

      In the film ‘Jaws’, the story moves to a fishing boat with three men in it who are going to catch and kill the man-eating great white shark. But when they see the shark up close, one of the men says ominously ‘We’re gonna need a bigger boat’.

      Perhaps the Yes movement has reached such a moment. The realisation that we’re going to need something bigger than what we’ve got.

    71. Breeks says:

      When a country emerging from a coup, Revolution, or any usurpation of a recognised government, and delivers a UDI, the big headache isn’t the declaration itself, but having the declaration recognised by the international community and the new government recognised as legitimate and sovereign. Lack of recognition is what scuppered Rhodesia’s UDI, the poster child for anybody who doesn’t like the principle of UDI’s.

      I has always struck me however that Scotland wouldn’t suffer from such a failure, even back in the days when I knew nothing about our legally recognised 14th Century sovereignty, because there was once a legal precedent for the country to exist so there would be no obvious barrier to it being recognised again.

      If however the matter was disputed and the UDI was challenged, the absolute scandal, the theft and criminal mismanagement of Scotland’s oil has always struck me as irrefutable evidence that Scotland isn’t being “governed” by Westminster, but cynically abused and frankly mugged for its resources. Consequently any legal challenge to a Scottish UDI would instantly have the wind taken out of its sails, and recognition of an independent Scotland will not assured, might at least provide compelling evidence of due cause.

      Three decades have passed since I started to feel that way, and I still feel the same. Why am I sanguine about it? We let them do it and we are still letting them do it, and as a nation we are meek and shy away from our rightful sovereign entitlements. They merely help themselves to the resources our Scottish MP’s traditionally don’t defend. The minority of Scots only feel the pain which the majority of Scots has inflicted upon themselves and us.

      Perhaps a UDI would provoke unrest and civil disorder, but the unspoken question which nobody dares to utter is what magnitude of strife and disorder would have suffered comparable damage upon Scotland and our long term interests as the gross mismanagement of Thatcher and Thatcher’s legacy?

      Uncomfortable thought to leave you with? Perhaps the only thing that Thatcher did manage well was us, and of course our unionist minders.

    72. OT. I tuned in to Have I Got More FMQ For You today. Jaisus wept.
      Davidson Dugdale and Rennie are quite frankly not up to it.
      I think it was Thomas Paine who observed of a rival:-
      ‘He rose like a rocket, and came down like a stick’.
      Well the Three Onions rose like rockets and came down like sticks.
      Dugdale refuses to engage the Blue Tories across the Chamber on anything, Rennie will be a good pothole and blocked drains councillor soon, and the Better Together attack from all sides on the extremely patient FM about the crisis in treatment of teenage Mental Health would have been merely yet another cynical joined up SNP BAD ploy, if it were not for the shameless half truths about the situation spouted by these low grade rabble rousers to feed tomorrow’s the columns and air time of the Dead Tree Scrolls and of BBC/ITN News Where You Are tonight and tomorrow morning. ‘Sturgeon under pressure’ Tomfools, every one.

    73. Stoker says:

      That article is a load of shite Rev!

      It can’t be true and that’s a fact because that wee snotter, Brian ‘McTimmy’ Wilson, was never off the tv in the 1980s telling us we only had about 20-years worth of oil remaining. His squint wee snottery face was never oot the papers either.

      True dat!

    74. Proud Cybernat says:

      O/T

      Can you effing believe it? Lead item on BBC R2 news about some effing baking bash with ex-BBC presenters not going to CH4 out of loyalty to auntie.

      Who gives a flying fuck?

      BritNat pish.

    75. heedtracker says:

      Given that not Scots oil has been monumentally looted by our imperial masters, its hardly surprising that London is awash with looted Russian oil money. We’re meant to call Russia money in the City oligarch. Just as we’re meant to call dudes like the ex BP boss below, a magnate or tycoon, not a spiv or a crook.

      Browne and chums used not Scots oil and gas to build one of the world’s biggest and most polluting outfits ever seen but he was brought down, not for his gender as he implies but because he gave lots of BP dosh to lovers, then one grassed.

      Here he is bullshiting like only very rich UKOK magnates can and do. Working for BP’s a very two tier experience, in that one of those tiers is fcuking horrible.

      http://www.advocate.com/business/2016/3/15/lessons-gay-business-pioneer-oil-tycoon-lord-john-browne

      What Lord Browne actually is

      http://archive.is/IcC9f

      Why we thought New Labour’s historic win 97 would change anything, is just one of Scotland’s great tragedies. But on the other hand, Scots now have tory BBC led yoon culture raging at us that we are £15bn bankrupt, too small, stupid etc, so vote NO and forever. Its another brilliant UKOK win win.

    76. manandboy says:

      Brexit may not have started, but as everyone knew , only the UK would be kept waiting.

      Bloomberg Brexit Bulletin :

      Global investment banks are throwing in the towel in the battle to keep London the home for clearing of $570 billion of euro derivatives.

      Executives tell Bloomberg’s Gavin Finch and John Detrixhe they expect France or Germany to prevail in the tussle once Brexit is underway and are making plans to cope.

      While it might take years for the transitions to happen, jobs and operations central to the clearing function will be among the first moved to the continent once the U.K. triggers its withdrawal from the European Union, one person said.

      It would mark a defeat for Chancellor of the Exchequer Philip Hammond, who pledged this month to seek to protect London’s status as the epicenter for European trading in interest-rate swaps, accounting for about 39 percent of the global market. European Commission Vice President Valdis Dombrovskis, the bloc’s financial-services chief, today reiterated that the U.K. faces a choice between imposing immigration controls and letting its financial firms continue to trade freely with the EU.

    77. Proud Cybernat says:

      Unless you want a civil war in Scotland, UDI is a non-starter. We need a majority vote in favour of independence. End of.

    78. Effijy says:

      The efforts of former UK Chancellor of the Exchequer George Osborne to tighten the purse strings didn’t prevent the nation’s debt-to-GDP ratio ballooning from 78.4% in 2010 to 90.1% in 2014/2015.

      90% is the figure that most financial analysts agree is were it is almost impossible for an economy to grow at any significant rate!

      Come Brexit, the Tories will need sell off Scotland to the Chinese to pay for Hinckley Point Nuclear Power Station.

    79. heedtracker says:

      How it works, Labour and big oil money, from that Heil thing on Browne, before Bomber Blair got rich and Crash Gordo saved the UK from the Scots.

      “There were a number of dinners and meetings between the chief executive and senior members of the Blair administration, including the Prime Minister himself.

      On June 8 2005, according to Jeff Chevalier’s evidence, Lord Browne and Tony Blair attended a dinner, organised by former Downing Street aide Anji Hunter, who left No 10 to join BP. At the meal, Mr Blair discussed “life after office” and “aspects of his own character”.

      At separate meetings, “important strategic decisions”‘ affecting BP’s future and a scheme “for the benefit of BP’s customers” were discussed by Gordon Brown and Lord Browne. The details of those conversations cannot be divulged because Mr Justice Eady ruled it would breach the privacy of the individuals concerned.

      At another dinner, Lord Browne and his lover entertained Peter Mandelson, the European Trade Commissioner, and his Brazilian partner, Reinaldo Avila da Silva. According to Mr Justice Eady’s judgment, “European Union policy and Chinese textile quotas” were discussed but, again, no details are given.

      The judge ruled that the discussions did not “contribute to a debate in a democratic society relating to politicians in the exercise of their functions. It is more akin to vapid tittle-tattle”.

      The document makes reference to yet another dinner hosted by Lord Browne and his lover Chevalier for Anji Hunter, Peter Mandelson and his Brazilian boyfriend.

      And there was also another dinner attended by both Mandelson and Chevalier. On this separate occasion, according to the judgment, “Peter Mandelson’s boyfriend was not present, at which Peter Mandelson made certain observations”.

      Mr Justice Eady concluded that no further details of private dinner parties with politicans should be disclosed because “discussions at private dinner parties about the plans or personal affairs of fellow guests, such as Peter Mandelson and Tony Blair, are in my judgment, on the face of it, entitled to protection.”

      Mandelson, Blair, Brown, working it, like the socialist workers they really are.

    80. Sinky says:

      Why is it none of MSM / BBC et all have queried fact that UK oil revenues have fallen 99% since 2014 yet oil price has fallen by only 54% and output actually increased by 15 to 20%?

      Why it is that Norway, with roughly twice the North Sea oil and gas output of the UK, raised £9500 million in oil revenues in 2015 whereas the UK only raised £76 million?

      On misleading headlines, radio shortbread running with Dugdale’s claims but no response from Nicola.

    81. David says:

      manandboy wrote “The realisation that we’re going to need something bigger than what we’ve got.”

      What, like a Bigger Wee Blue Book?! Totally agree.

      ‘If we crowdfund it, it will come.’ 🙂

    82. Fred says:

      Sinky’s spot-on, a heart-wringing performance from Dugdale anent SNP bad but no response from the FM was forthcoming. What kind of news is this & won’t the so-called Scottish Six be just more of the same?

    83. One_Scot says:

      You can’t help from feeling that Scotland has been given a second chance and thrown a lifeline with IndyRef2, which if not taken will probably be terminal for Scotland.

      Years of Tory destruction, or a new future with limitless possibilities, hmm, it’s a tough call.

    84. Proud Cybernat says:

      BREXIT – if you look hard enough, you can clearly see what it means… and what’s coming…

      http://imgur.com/a/EqYFN

    85. bugger (le Panda) says:

      Different book covers, different colours, blue, green, red, silver, with different simple easy to read Q & A, copies of Civil Service points re debt, pensions etc ?

      Bigger job, bigger boat, more hands, start early

    86. Undeadshaun says:

      Reading the article that Rev links to, I found this section, which has a very interesting development on the part of the Norwegians.

      At one iconic meeting in 1974 the Norwegian government announced to a delegation of oil companies that they were raising the level of taxation on petroleum profits to 90 per cent from 50. After the shouting had died down, the minister expressed disappointment that some of them did not walk away from their offshore leases. “We should have taken more,” he admonished his bureaucrats in full view of the enraged oil executives.

      That is how in an independent Scotland, Scottish would take control over production of all north Sea assets. Only we should make it 95 percent tax on profits.

      Either way for Scotland it would win win, either we get control of production or massively increase our tax take from North Sea oil. And then use part of this to grow our renewables industry.

    87. gus1940 says:

      Does anybody know if the tapes of the original 70s broadcast of the Cheviot etc. still exist.

      I can’t remember if it was BBC or STV.

      If they do still exist who owns the copyright? as I doubt either of our broadcasters would show it again but if there are no copyright problems it could be made available on the net.

    88. Robert Louis says:

      Like others this just makes me so angry, words could never explain.

      Yet, despite all this we all watched as fellow Scots in 2014, queued up on telly to tell other Scots that Scotland would be a third world country if it became independent. Those in charge, like Alistair Darling KNOW the truth, yet deliberately lied, lied and lied again, just to preserve their blessed UK Labour party. Like wise Gordon Brown, he also knows the truth, yet spends his time scaring people about how poor Scotland is.

      Never, ever should Scots forgive these people for what they have done, and how they have betrayed the country of their birth. All that oil wealth, yet both Labour and Tories spent the 70’s, 80’s and 90’s telling Scots that it was worthless and running out. Meanwhile Thatcher squandered our wealth on tax cuts for the rich and infrastructure for the South East of England (M25, channel tunnel). There was NO economic miracle with Thatcher, just lots of stolen Scottish oil. To cap it all, they now tell us it is too volatile for Scotland.

      Liars, every single one of them. Now, if we lived in a NORMAL country, with a REAL Scottish broadcaster, this kind of thing would run and run and run, in dramas, documentaries and news broadcasts, but it doesn’t. No, because we are merely an English colony, with an English colonial broadcaster, we get supposed journalists taking utter tosh like ‘the oil is too volatile for Scotland’ seriously.

      We’ll never see the blatantly biased, propagandist and anti Scotland BBC run a peak time documentary exposing the lies, the McCrone report, or indeed this most recent report.

      London steals Scotland’s oil, then calls as beggars and subsidy junkies, and yet some Scots still think we should stay under their boot.

      Makes me so very angry, an anger that will never leave me. London and England stole Scotland’s wealth, and still to this day, they lie about it. We cannot be rid of this cursed undemocratic and unwanted union with England soon enough.

    89. Smallaxe says:

      Fred:

      If you are still here,can you go to moving on,and let me know when you are there.

      Peace Always

    90. DerekM says:

      Tories are greedy liars not content with robbing you they will also then sell off the scene of the crime.

      Everything we have seen over the last 30 years though does make my grey matter think why so desperate to hold on to us.

      I do have a theory and guess what,it has to do with oil.

      Now say you had secretly found a massive oil reserve nobody knows about and you decided the smart thing was to keep quiet about it,let the world deplete their resources once they are all struggling to produce pull it out the hat and its Rule Britannia God save the German lassie with the huge giro again.

      Even better if you can crash the oil price in the meantime cheaper imports.

      It really would explain the hostility towards our renewable industries the couldn’t care attitude to our oil industry and the insane mad drivel being thrown at indy which has become almost hysterical in trying to deny us another referendum.

      hmmm its either total incompetence on a galactic scale or an evil deliberate plan for the master race to rise once more,you know they are stark raving bonkers enough that the second option doesn’t seem so ridiculous.

    91. I’m glad you are not forgetting the periods of austerity under Lords Wilson and Callaghan. It behoves me to see these creeps in the Lumpen Pairty and their agents in the Brit left getting away with blaming Thatcher for everything they did themselves.

      Wilson ordered the North sea plundered afore Independence and broke all health and safety rules and conditions with the same Tame Unions that policed his no per cent Pay Freezes

    92. Davy says:

      Yes we have had our nations wealth wasted by successive unionist controlled Westminster parliaments.

      But as stu said the renewable energy sources are another bonanza for Scotland, also we probably have yet another oil wealth creator in our west coast seas and we must not forget the north sea is not finished yet.

      The situation is very simple, we as a nation are the only ones who can prevent Westminster from taking our next 3 to 5 decades of wealth for their own use.

      Take it back, or lose it.

    93. Scott says:

      gus1940 says:

      22 September, 2016 at 5:06 pm

      Does anybody know if the tapes of the original 70s broadcast of the Cheviot etc. still exist.

      I recorded it and watch it now and again I believe it was shown again on BBC Alba not that long ago.

    94. call me dave says:

      Ken MacQuarrie, director of BBC Scotland, to be BBC’s new head of nations and regions.

      https://archive.is/CrMaW

      Anybody got a theory for this one?

    95. Andrew McLean says:

      The Cheviot the Stag and the Black Black Oil (Complete)

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sb3qbFcLYZc

      quality isn’t fantastic but still watchable

    96. heedtracker says:

      Nice example of toryboys who see no ships. Its amazing to think hacks actually get paid for this and that they can actually flog it.

      http://archive.is/i4pPK

      No one wants ref 2 because Ruth Davidson’s transcendent.

      “To borrow a word from the First Minister, the approval ratings show that Ruth Davidson is a politician who transcends old political dividing lines and, by keeping open the promise of another referendum, the SNP is giving non-Conservative Unionists a real reason to rally round her flag. “

    97. mike cassidy says:

      Headtracker 4.09

      You mentioned New Labour’s triumph in 1997.

      Cut to 2007.

      Here is an article about Gordon Brown providing a perfect illustration of why that ‘triumph’ was never going to benefit Scotland economically.

      http://archive.is/XlrdN

      “Brown recognises that the greatest force behind Britain’s long ten-year run without recession has been the sheer excellence, innovation and openness of British finance. Having created a more liberal tax regime for the super-rich he is unwilling to change it under political pressure and destroy wealth creation. He genuinely believes that there is something to be learned not just from the science of J P Garnier at GlaxoSmithKline but also from the genius of financial innovation. ”

      And a year later.

      BOOM!

    98. Andrew MacLean at 3.49.
      The next stop on the Road to Self Determination is likely to be the LA elections next May.
      The Unionists use Health Education and Policing to fuel their SNP Bad mantra.
      Well, I live in Glasgow, and we shall be closely scrutinising GCC, their Arms Length disasters, their Education department’s Record, their Social Work, Care for the elderly, and so on.
      I have no doubt that Unionist Councils deliberately hamper the joined up policies of Holyrood in care for the elderly, child care, education, and so on, and to hell with the citizens.
      I can’t wait to open the books.

      New Labour has held LA’s in their grubby little grasp for five or six decades.
      No more.

    99. Sinky says:

      Just heard Kezia Dugdale failed to vote at Holyrood thus allowing the SNP to avoid an embarrassing defeat in debate when Presiding Officer was obliged to give casting vote to the Government.

      And some folk think she is up to the job

    100. manandboy says:

      I gave The National a call today with the suggestion they might consider serialising The McCrone Report. The guy I spoke with, a member of the editorial team, agreed it was a good idea and would I leave it with him. Here’s hoping.

    101. gerry parker says:

      @ Man and Boy 5:38

      Good news, hope they do.

      We were giving it away on the earliest Wings stalls – it’s only 19 pages and in .pdf form.

      After reading it I was surprised how many people I spoke to who had never heard about it.

      And to the people (unionists) who said “you’re just digging up a 30 year old report” I said.

      “THEY INTENTIONALLY HID IT FROM YOU”

      Sometimes that got them thinking.

    102. heedtracker says:

      mike cassidy says:
      22 September, 2016 at 5:33 pm
      Headtracker 4.09

      You mentioned New Labour’s triumph in 1997.

      Cut to 2007.

      The problem with New Labour and Crash Gordon is that he was Chancellor for so long, with extraordinary power. Crash is an economic historians dream if only because he was a tory Chancellor fooling all kinds of lefties for almost the whole of his reign. Osborne’s much easier to understand if only because he was ofcourse a tory, with one enemy proudly in his sites the whole time, the poorest.

      The only reason Crash and New Labour lasted so long was because the tories understood exactly what Crash and Bomber Blair were, right from the start.

      Rupert Murdoch was virtually PM Blair’s first day No.10 guest 97. And the whole of the teamGB BBC led media just let Blair get on with it all. There was no way in hell Crash and Bomber Blair would ever re nationalise anything let alone UK oil and gas and they never tried. Its extremely unlikely a Corbynista government will ever happen but if it does, they wont probably wont re nationalise anything either.

      Scots oil and gas is more than capable of semi nationalisation like Norway but only by Holyrood. Its just one of the many drivers behind the 2014 mass big oil freak out for NO, with late entry tory creeps like Wood.

      It all comes down to ref 2 now. Get some noise cancelling headphones. Its going to get really really UKOK toryboy LOUD:D

    103. Smallaxe says:

      Jack Collatin:

      Jack can you meet me on Deckchairs.?

      Peace Always

      I will watch for you there!

    104. Rock says:

      The biggest tractors are Labour politicians who had an iron grip over Scotland for decades.

      The Tories did it openly but the blame lies on the sheep in wolves clothing who “saved us from the Tories”.

      Destroy the BBC and destroy Labour in Scotland.

      Scotland will not be able to become independent as long as the BBC remains.

    105. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      What sticks in my craw is that in addition to the longterm oil theft/squander, we’re also told by the scandalously ignorant English branch of yoonery that we’re “subsidy junkies”.

      And the craven Scottish branch connive in that by banging on about “the broad shoulders of the UK”. I really think they believe it, too. Though all the “Scottish” Unionist parties being financially propped-up by their southern HQs does tend to narrow their vision somewhat. “Autonomous”? He who pays the piper…

    106. call me dave says:

      As mentioned earlier:

      Kezia Dugdale saves SNP government from defeat 🙂

      Ken steps in as he must to give casting vote to SG… 🙂 🙂

      The SNP hailed Ms Dugdale as a “lone ranger” who had “taken her newfound autonomy literally” – a tongue-in-cheek reference to proposed changes to relationship between Scottish and UK Labour.

      https://archive.is/3b1mI

    107. HandandShrimp says:

      I see that Labour’s gruntle is diss’d over Kezia not pressing the button hard enough or something.

      Could only happen to Kezia.

    108. Craig P says:

      We won’t see this on the Telegraph, Mail, Express, Record, Scotsman, BBC, STV… the look-a-squirrel media… thankyou Stu, we’d be mushrooms (kept in the dark and fed shit) without you.

    109. Ian Brotherhood says:

      ‘And here’s one for Kezia!’

      Sugababes, ‘Push The Button’ –

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJDGcxAf9D8

    110. Smith says:

      “Scotland has also been blessed by fate with a second generous gift, an almost unmeasurable potential for renewables, which risks suffering the same fate”

      Wait, how are the Conservatives going to eliminate that potential? Are they going to flatten the hills?

    111. Robert Peffers says:

      @Fergus Green says: 22 September, 2016 at 12:50 pm:

      “Another brilliant analysis Stuart and one that merits being printed on a leaflet and distributed through letterboxes throughout Scotland.”

      Aiblins, Fergus, Ah’m jist ae cynical bodach.

      Owersettin intil the Inglis, “Perhaps, Fergus, I’m just one cynical old man”, but …

      Anyway, I doubt very much that those people we independence activists seek to convert to our way of thinking will bother reading political leaflets.

      Just as the same group of people will read a headline, and if it is anything remotely to do with any form of politics, will read no further as they glance at the leaflet on their way to the waste paper bin.

      So it is with radio broadcasts and TV political matters. I’ve been at this independence activism now for nigh on 70 years and there are those who think politics has nothing whatsoever to do with them. They simply do not want to know.

      That is until politics hits them where it hurts them most – and that is usually in their wallets or bank accounts.

      Which just may explain for you why independence is such a slow and painstaking undertaking.

      The thing is that we must be ready, and able, to give these people the correct and precise answers when their howls of abject pain grate upon our ears, and make no bones about it, they will squeal like stuck pigs when their turn comes to be the victims of the political machine.

    112. manandboy says:

      https://www.politicshome.com

      Politics Home gives Alistair Carmichael a free ride to tell us all where he’s at. Don’t bother reading the piece, AC hasn’t changed one iota. He remains a consumate liar and every bit as arrogant, pompous and conceited as ever.

      He continues to delude himself about his legacy, clinging to his refusal to accept that he will be associated with barefaced lying till the day he dies.
      I’d rather sit down with a bucket of diarrhoea on my right and a basin of vomit on my left than be in the company of A. Carmichael.

    113. Smallaxe says:

      Robert Peffers says:”those who think politics has nothing whatsoever to do with them.”

      I can think of nothing that politics does not affect.People
      just don’t seem to get that fact
      Peace Always

    114. heedtracker says:

      Kevin Hague Retweeted
      Glenn Campbell ?@GlennBBC Sep 20
      Big win for @kezdugdale

      Why do yoons come in threes?

    115. Born Optimist says:

      gus1940 says:
      22 September, 2016 at 5:06 pm

      ‘Does anybody know if the tapes of the original 70s broadcast of the Cheviot etc. still exist?’

      You can find a copy on Youtube. Definitely worth watching again if you saw the original live version. Pity the new Dundee Rep version was not going to be around for longer. Hope it gets a reprise next year.

    116. Free Scotland says:

      Kezia’s latest gaffe links back nicely to something the Rev wrote yesterday:

      “Kezia Dugdale can rearrange the furniture on the Scottish deck of the Good Ship Labour all she likes. But her steering wheel is a plastic toy one that isn’t connected to anything and her captain’s hat came out of the gift shop.”

    117. Lenny Hartley says:

      UK oil and gas income 2015 according to Gers £50 Million
      Norway oil and Gas income 2015 (Norsk Petroleum) ) £20 Billion . Following from press release by Norsk Petroleum.

      The government’s total net cash flow in 2015, including the dividend from Statoil and various fees, was NOK 218 billion, down from NOK 312 billion in 2014. The 30 % drop in revenues is due to lower revenues following the sharp decline in the oil price.

      Due to them taking better care of the wells in the early days (not sucking it out at max speed) Norway in 2015 produced about 2 million barrels per day, in the same period we produced half that although I seen a comment recently that our production is now around 1.5 million barrels per day.

      Now either the Gers figures are lying (I kid you not 🙂 ) or the UK are a waste of space and the sooner we take control of our own finances the better.

    118. JLT says:

      The thing is, renewables from the north of Scotland might not be the only wealth that could benefit Scotland.

      Many academics have speculated for years that the Arctic ice cap is melting to the point, that in the height of future summers, the Arctic ocean will be just that …ice free and one giant ocean.

      This opens up the possibility of new trade propositions for the likes of Aberdeen, Peterhead, Orkney, Shetland and the Outer Hebrides. You see …the shortest trade route to America, Canada, Russia, Japan, China …in fact, the whole of the Pacific Rim, will no longer be via the Atlantic, Indian and Pacific Oceans …but that it will be through the Arctic Ocean itself. For Scotland, the potential to be a European super hub for trade might not only be incredible, but the wealth generated on top of Renewables would surely make a Scottish Pound one of the richest currencies on the planet.

      If all comes to pass (and say we finally do get independence), then this surely has to be one investment project that shouldn’t be ignored or missed. Investment in the very north of Scotland would surely reap economic benefits for the WHOLE of Scotland (if not the UK in general. After all, the imported goods for England, Wales and Ireland will have to come from Scotland).

      http://www.cfr.org/arctic/thawing-arctic-risks-opportunities/p32082

      http://scir.org/2014/05/over-the-top-the-emergence-of-arctic-ocean-trade/

    119. JLT says:

      The thing is, renewables from the north of Scotland might not be the only wealth that could benefit Scotland.

      Many academics have speculated for years that the Arctic ice cap is melting to the point, that in the height of future summers, the Arctic ocean will be just that …ice free and one giant ocean.

      This opens up the possibility of new trade propositions for the likes of Aberdeen, Peterhead, Orkney, Shetland and the Outer Hebrides. You see …the shortest trade route to America, Canada, Russia, Japan, China …in fact, the whole of the Pacific Rim, will no longer be via the Atlantic, Indian and Pacific Oceans …but that it will be through the Arctic Ocean itself. For Scotland, the potential to be a European super hub for trade might not only be incredible, but the wealth generated on top of Renewables would surely make a Scottish Pound one of the richest currencies on the planet.

      If all comes to pass (and say we finally do get independence), then this surely has to be one investment project that shouldn’t be ignored or missed. Investment in the very north of Scotland would surely reap economic benefits for the WHOLE of Scotland (if not the UK in general. After all, the imported goods for England, Wales and Ireland will have to come from Scotland).

      http://www.cfr.org/arctic/thawing-arctic-risks-opportunities/p32082

      http://scir.org/2014/05/over-the-top-the-emergence-of-arctic-ocean-trade/

    120. Andy smith says:

      Apart from being told north sea oil would only be in production for little over 20 years, does anyone else remember the story of it being the “wrong” type of oil..along the lines of it being too rich or something, the upshot being that it wasn’t as valuable as Arab or American oil !

    121. sinky says:

      Scottish Parliament authorities confirm that electronic voting system was working properly so Labour spin on Kezia non voting exposed as a lie.
      Perhaps she was embarrassed to vote with the Tories again.

    122. One_Scot says:

      To be fair to Kezia, she’s just not up to the job.

      Hopefully she’ll be going nowhere anytime soon.

    123. Legerwood says:

      Ms Dugdale looked as if she wastexting on her phone at the time. Maybe she was calling a friend for advice about which way to vote. Or maybe the BBC just cut the film to look that way. Not unknown for them to do that is it?

    124. JPJ2 says:

      And to think that fraud, the “Father of the Nation”, Donald Dewar, in the full knowledge of the value of North Sea oil, stated that an independent Scotland would have an economy on a par with Bangladesh.

      And to think that the current representatives of the British Labour Party in Scotland are pygmies compared with him!

    125. Thepnr says:

      @Breeks

      I think your a really bright guy and you write some informative and interesting posts but why you keep on beating the UDI drum escapes me.

      UDI could only ever win if more than 50% of the population accept it else there will be trouble. I certainly don’t want to see an Independent Scotland start it’s new life wife trouble on it’s doorstep.

      UDI is for countries that don’t have a democratic vote. For better or worse we are part of the UK until the Scottish electorate say otherwise in a vote.

      Preaching UDI hands ammunition to the Wings haters. Please desist.

    126. call me dave says:

      Hate crimes in Scotland ‘fell after Brexit vote’

      https://archive.is/QkTBe

    127. Liz g says:

      Smith @ 6.40
      As they have always done they will sell the industry off mainly to their pals before we get control of it.
      The money from the sale will go to the Westminster Treasury and all we will get is to uphold the contract.
      Is it no obvious?

    128. For Tony Blair

      IRAQ
      There has to be a hell

      I went to bed last night
      I wept
      And as I slept
      I heard no tread
      As the silent dead moved by
      But why, oh why, oh why I cried
      Our leaders lied. Our leaders lied
      I had no part
      No bombs, no bullets in my hands
      We marched, we marched
      We sang, we cried
      It wasn’t us
      And then – the silent dead replied
      A million quiet voices sighed
      No bombs and bullets in our hands
      No bombs, no bullets in our hands
      It wasn’t us, it wasn’t us
      It surely wasn’t us,
      But on our lands and on our homes
      The bombs and bullets fell
      And on our children in our arms
      And still the silent dead marched by
      As far as I could see
      They wept with me.
      If this could be
      There is no God to tell
      But pray, for those who send the bombs
      There has to be a hell.

      Dave McEwan Hill

    129. Robert Graham says:

      Totally missed the Kezia button gate thingy anyone with the short version thanks in advance , and thanks for all the replies on the previous thread re Tory NHS brass necks . at least now i know i am not talking to myself as i am usually guilty of ,almost the same as going into the kitchen and thinking what the f/k am i doing in here happens every day ha ha cheers all .

    130. Tinto Chiel says:

      JPJ2: Wasn’t Donald Dour happy to connive at the loss of Scottish coastal waters as far north as Carnoustie on the eve of the Scottish Parliament? The sooner his statue gets melted down the better. What a hypocrite.

      UDI: we’re closer than ever to independence, which we will achieve, despite all the odds, legally and without dubiety.

      Thepnr is right: there would be civil disorder and endless legal wrangling. Remember Freedom Square when we lost?

      We either do this democratically or we don’t deserve to be independent, frankly. How many reasons do people here need? Just read this thread.

    131. sinky says:

      Legerwood @ 7.29
      Kezia was texting London HQ to find out how she should vote under this automony thingy.

    132. sinky says:

      Robert Graham
      See my post at 5.34 pm re Kezia non voting on Council finance debate

    133. Andrew McLean says:

      Thepnr and breeks,
      UDI ,
      Funny this was raised again, a poster above mentioned the dirty arse wipe Brian Wilson, the Benedict Arnold of Scotland, (anniversary of his death yesterday). I was looking at his contributions in Hansard, Mc nerd that I am, and came across a speech by Alex Salmond in about Scotland in Europe. The debate http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm198889/cmhansrd/1989-06-28/Debate-4.html

      Has Nicolas fairbairn, no really, and the rest of the scum, ganging up on Alex, but my point is that it was common currency in shiteminster that if Scotland voted “on mass” for the SNP then the union of Scotland and England is over. It’s in Hansard so it must be true.

      Yes UDI is not the way to go, given the loony unionists threats of armed violence that I read on the revs twitter page today (by the way, telling everyone on twitter that you have a fire arm and are prepared to use it to further your political aims is terrorist behaviour? Yes? So what are police Scotland doing issuing fire arms certificates to looneys?) ok I know Special Branch are monitoring them but Jesus!

      UDI may be a future course, a far future course, but as yet it’s outside the realm of possibility. But one thing is sure, as sure as little green apples, this union is over. Soon it may be time to raise the flag of rebellion, only on historical evidence, the British never left peaceably unless they faced a overwhelming force.

    134. defo says:

      Apologies if this has already been said but…

      The difference in revenues = A full to overflowing trough, and a lot of happy UK/US oil execs to boot.

      You don’t actually believe that such a shitty deal for HM Treasury was merely down to incompetence in negotiations really, do you ?

    135. Thepnr says:

      @Andrew McLean

      My point is simple Andrew, without a minimum of 50% support in the country then declaring UDI is pointless as you will lose.

      So why not just have a vote instead if your support exceeds 50%?

      UDI=Ridiculous

    136. defo says:

      heedtracker says at 6:50 pm
      “Kevin Hague Retweeted
      Glenn Campbell ?@GlennBBC Sep 20
      Big win for @kezdugdale

      Why do yoons come in threes?”

      ===============================
      First one is needed to take a dump in public
      Second one to step into it, and spread it everywhere
      And, OBVS. The last is there to blame the SNP for the mess.

    137. call me dave says:

      @Artyhetty

      So Marco and Liz g & me are not paranoid… 🙁

    138. Stoker says:

      Here’s what Business for Scotland was trying to get across in 2013:

      10 Facts About Scotland’s Oil And Independence
      http://www.businessforscotland.co.uk/10-facts-about-scotlands-oil-and-independence/

      Archived version for future posterity.
      (Or should that be prosperity? 🙂 )

      http://archive.is/EM2TQ

    139. HandandShrimp says:

      Totally missed the Kezia button gate thingy anyone with the short version thanks in advance

      Kezia thought she had pressed her vote button but it didn’t register. Kezia raging. SNPBad

    140. McDuff says:

      I despair at my fellow countrymen and women who do not see how we were robbed and deceived and are continuing to be so. Another disappointing turnout at the rally in Glasgow Green , what a difference it would have made if 50,000 had attended.
      The apathy in this country is like a thick fog and I wonder what its going to take to blow it away.

    141. Stoker says:

      Scottish Independence Referendum Guide – Oil
      http://archive.is/5Hxml

    142. Proud Cybernat says:

      “The apathy in this country is like a thick fog and I wonder what its going to take to blow it away.”

      Chill.

      Most folks aren’t political anoraks like most of us here on WoS and, right now, are just getting on with their day-to-day lives. But trust me – when Nicola fires the IndyRef#2 starting gun (and she WILL), then brace yourself. The whole bloody country will be mobilised for that fight. You can count on it.

      BTW and FWIW – I was at GG on Sundayy woth wife and kids and had a great day.

    143. call me dave says:

      Johnson: Brexit talks ‘probably’ to begin in early 2017

      https://archive.is/gEjcH

    144. ronnie anderson says:

      @ Artyhetty 8.30pm queston is will SNP tell Westminster tae F Off wie they’re slash & burn policy’s.

    145. heedtracker says:

      BBC 2 9:00 PM – 10:00 PM
      Brexit: A Very British Coup?
      The real story of the campaign for Brexit as told by a host of key people as they lived and breathed it.

      Loads and loads of fat troughers having an ace time. Not one word on just how hard the BBC worked across teamGB to get Farage right at the centre of UK politics, over the mad one that BBC Scotland and Jim Naughty treated like a god, to get UKIP in to Scotland.

      Appaling shysters, or just another day at the beeb. Whatisface MacQuarrell, head of BBC Scotland also been promoted for his loyalty to the yew kay today, shock.

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-37440265

      No doubt bringing his wages up to average BBC management £400+ grand. Tasty.

    146. Proud Cybernat says:

      “Everything’s fine!” the colonial media proclaims.

      On the surface, things do appear relatively okay. However…

      http://imgur.com/a/EqYFN

    147. heedtracker says:

      BBC 2 9:00 PM – 10:00 PM
      Brexit: A Very British Coup?
      The real story of the campaign for Brexit as told by a host of key people as they lived and breathed it.

      Loads and loads of fat troughers having an ace time. Not one word on just how hard the BBC worked across teamGB to get Farage right at the centre of UK politics, over the mad one that BBC Scotland and Jim Naughty treated like a god, to get UKIP in to Scotland.

      Appalling shysters, or just another day at the beeb. Whatisface MacQuarrell, head of BBC Scotland also been promoted for his loyalty to the yew kay today, shock.

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-37440265

      No doubt bringing his wages up to average BBC management £400+ grand. Tasty.

    148. call me dave says:

      Hark the Herald!

      Their take on the push button labour pressing for enquiry… 🙂

      Row over Kezia Dugdale vote as SNP avoids defeat on council tax reforms

      https://archive.is/x9Mbz

    149. FatCandy says:

      Wars have been fought for less.

    150. cynicalHighlanderl says:

      @Macduff

      Glasgow is not the centre of the Universe nor Scotland for that matter and a min of a 7hour round trip for me is stretching it. Perth is more central but then for every extra bod from up North you would lose 2 or more from the West, swings and roundabouts.

    151. Smallaxe says:

      Dave McEwan Hill: Heartbreaking
      I hope you don’t mind
      But I must join,it pains
      me this us living well
      When others live in living hell

      The tears flow down
      my pain torn face
      I am not part of
      this inhuman race
      Like a waterfall salted rivers fell
      Down wrinkled cheeks
      straight into hell
      They turned to steam in hades heat
      No one heard
      The hissing sound
      Like the final breath
      of children Lying
      Unheard unseen
      but surely dying
      For what they died,no one would tell
      They died but
      did not
      belong In hell
      I know not where they
      went when dead
      But that salty taste was
      On my head of
      tear mixed blood spread
      in an Eastern dawn
      There gone there gone
      They can’t come back
      airborne attack
      There young lives blown away
      Like dust for what for what
      For rich mens lust
      Who’s children never die in dust
      But live as privileged
      cursed spawn
      Of demons who have fed upon
      The bones of wretched
      poor born pawns
      In a game that just
      goes on and on
      On and on it goes
      unstopping
      Never ending bombs
      are dropping
      No one cares
      no one needs them
      The price to kill
      Would cost less
      To feed them
      The sky cried
      Death and
      Stole
      Young breath
      Are we to blame
      I die in shame

    152. mike cassidy says:

      OT

      How long before the SNP are blamed for dodgy Scottish cheese?

    153. scottiieDog says:

      @mike cassady
      Good post about Broon.
      Very much related but also very relevant to the current obsession with deficits i feel this video really lifts the lid on what deficits really are and why they are important.

      The UK is built on deficit spending since ww2. There is really only one area which would have produced a surplus. Think small population big oil producer.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d57M6ATPZIE&feature=youtu.be

      Very informative. Please share widely.

    154. Alba Laddie says:

      Bit off topic, but I too complained to the BBC about the lead item on their radio news bulletins leading with the “story” that some twee cookery programme’s national treasure of a judge wasn’t defecting to Channel 4…

      This news was deemed to be more important than the 2d item about further bombing in Syria, and that IVF treatment was being cut back across some NHS trusts.

      I absolutely despair of our “national” broadcaster, I really do.

      FFS Let’s get out posts-haste, people.

    155. Smallaxe says:

      Dave McEwan Hill:

      Your words touched my soul so I know you’ll understand me
      as I understand you
      It’s painful to hold
      Inside

      Peace and Love to you

    156. Kevin Evans says:

      I can’t bring myself to comment on this.

    157. mike cassidy says:

      Its more from the cuddly EU.

      http://archive.is/KNQzF

    158. Proud Cybernat says:

      Pressing times for Kez…

      http://imgur.com/a/5yX68

    159. Sassenach says:

      O my God, the new UKIP leader given a long opportunity on the BBC to tell us we don’t want another indyref………etc etc.

      The new attack dog now that SLab is dead?

    160. Fred says:

      A great tribute to Hamish Henderson on Alba tonight & Dick Gaughan sang “Freedom Come All Ye” at the end. Looking forward to a good recovery.

    161. Smallaxe @5.57.
      You and I are old enough to know the truth, and lived through the last 50 years of WM rule.
      Not only will me meet at the deckchairs we will bask in the bright light and fresh air of an Independent Scotland, in our lifetime. Of that I’m sure now.
      I doubt Dugdale will survive Sunday’s coronation of Corbyn, and the NEC and Conference will laugh their heads off at the notion that So Called Scottish Labour, all one of him, can not only defy the party whip, but that the Leader of the So Called Scottish Labour Party will set out an autonomous policy agenda, which, if at odds with the English Head Office, will still be put into the mix, to be debated by the NEC before the English Labour Party agree UK Labour policy.
      Have this woman, and the legions of Dead Tree Scroll hacks, and the Unionist Spin Jockeys on TV and radio completely lost their marbles, or are they just a bunch of manipulative sinister little insurgents, hoping that we won’t see, hear, or read below their increasingly hysterical headlines?
      Does Brian Taylor really believe that Dugdale, Rowley, Baillie, and the Bricklayer will get to pick WM candidates, and challenge the London party’s policy agenda?
      I’m in the book, guys.
      I invite you to meet smallaxe and me in Gretna, (bring the cameras, and a few English cameramen) look us straight in the eye, and repeat this nonsense.
      Come on down; the deckchairs are dead comfy.

    162. mike cassidy says:

      Very timely report given the subject matter of this thread.

      Though, in the time-honoured tradition of WOS and the headline, don’t take the word ‘nosedive’ too seriously.

      http://archive.is/rFkOM

    163. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Smallaxe (10.23) –

      More power to ye mister. I’m chuffed I got the chance to meet you, albeit briefly.

      People beefing about the turnout at the GG rally should perhaps consider the quality rather than quantity of attendees.

      A lot of connections were made, and good discussions had on that wet Sunday.

      😉

    164. Connor McEwen says:

      So that’s why the middle east is in such a quagmire.
      Nigeria next? After Biafra!
      WHO NEW?
      Blinkers on, Eastenders ,Justin Timberlake and Brad and Angelina have split and the fitba’s on, so everything is all right in the world.
      Wheeshtminster will wheel out the Royale Family to save the UNION.

      SERIOUSLY, GET THIS PRINTED IN “The peoples Friend” and Francis Gays article in the SUNDAY POST. Dae they still dae that?
      FRANCIS GAY,memories memories!!!

    165. Connor McEwen says:

      Mike Cassidy 11.12. but the point is being made of Wheeshtminster will make sure renewables are sold of offshore as well so lost again to Scotland. INDEPENDENCE old bean, INDEPENDENCE, pip pip, and jolly japes to old Etonia

    166. Phronesis says:

      Norway has coped admirably with the responsibility of managing a vast natural resource on their doorstep. The governmental decisions taken 40 years ago will benefit its citizen for decades so it’s not too difficult to choose which socio economic model- Norway or UKOK’s-is the better example of responsible stewardship and intelligent politics.

      ‘Norway has very high material living standards and scores well on other aspects of wellbeing, thanks to a mix of natural resources wealth, good policy making and inclusive and egalitarian social values, including active efforts to break down barriers to women’s careers…

      Norway’s economy has been transformed since the discovery of commercially viable offshore oil and gasfields in the late 1960s which helped the country to achieve a high level of GDP per capita .

      Good macroeconomic management of the oil wealth via the sovereign wealth fund and the associated fiscal rule has helped achieve impressive standards of living across society. Also, inflows of labour from other European Economic Area (EEA) countries have supported activity and reduced the risk of overheating…

      The country scores well in practically every dimension of the OECD’s Better Life Index . Household disposable income ranks third highest in the OECD area and this is echoed in good outcomes in jobs, earnings, and housing. Furthermore, scores relating to subjective well-being, work-life balance and the environment are good.

      Low levels of inequality and poverty are being driven by strong societal values of inclusiveness and egalitarianism and by other features of the “Nordic model”. In particular, emphasis on the quality of education, encouraging and facilitating the employment of women, well functioning centralised wage bargaining systems, good legal frameworks for business and high levels of trust in society. Sustaining these outstanding economic and social outcomes is the key priority for Norway’s economic policy maker…’

      And all things considered even with current economic uncertainties

      ‘Norway is in a very strong position to handle risks and vulnerabilities, such as those described above.Flexible monetary policy with a floating exchange rate in combination with the wealth fund and fiscal framework reduces exposure to oil-price-related and other risks. And, there is capacity for substantial automatic and discretionary counter-cyclical fiscal stimulus, even while remaining within the bounds set by fiscal rules’

      http://www.oecd.org/eco/surveys/Norway-2016-overview.pdf

    167. msean says:

      Irrelevant of what the vote was about,nice to see Tories stopped for once,always thought it was Labours job to oppose the Tories,not work with or for them. 🙂

    168. Smallaxe says:

      Jack Collatin:

      That sounds like fun Jack,it’s definitely one for the bucket
      List. 🙂

      Peace Love and Laugh’s my good friend

    169. Roughian says:

      I’ve mentioned this before. Can somebody please find a link to a headline from the “Glasgow Herald” that said something like. Thatcher must not waste north sea oil revenues on unemployment.
      It would be great to see what they were saying all these years ago.

    170. Smallaxe says:

      Ian Brotherhood:

      We must meet again soon Ian,we didn’t get enough time on Sunday,but we will make up for it.

      I know some men
      We know one another
      If one takes off the hood
      I’ll just call him Brother

      Peace Love and people to Love

    171. Ian Murray says:

      I am sure I saw it on here but the best Oil argument is the one that shows the revenue Norway generated over the past year when Oil prices were in the toilet compared to what Westminster generated as I recall it was significant

    172. Smallaxe at 10.23
      Smallaxe at 10.32

      Appreciated. Thank you.

    173. Chic McGregor says:

      Fred
      Bha e cearst gu leor.

      And I notice the fund for Dick Gaughan’s recent medical predicament has gone through the £10k barrier.

    174. G H Graham says:

      So incompetent is Westminster that it couldn’t even steal all the wealth for itself.

      London reminds me of a bank heist team that steals £20 million of gold, only to melt it down and fence it at 10p on the pound.

      But you have to hand it the BBC Shortbread. First class job on disseminating decades of “oil is actually a bad deal for Scotland” propaganda.

    175. Smallaxe says:

      Dave McEwan Hill:

      Dave if ever I had a soulmate I found him in you tonight
      when I read your post I cried.My own words came so easy to me
      after reading yours.

      Peace Love and Poetic Hearts

    176. Smallaxe says:

      Something to think about! IN OUR NAME!!!

      Smallaxe says

      http://www.msf.org.uk/

      Dear Smallaxe

      Thank you for your donation to Médecins Sans Frontières UK.

      The reference for this donation is W0160163

      Thank you

      Your donation is what makes our work possible. Donations such as yours allows us to remain independent from political, religious and economic interests, and ensures we can act fast and save lives based on needs alone.

      See donations at work

      Our website is a great place to see how much of an impact donations such as yours have. There, you’ll find the latest news, photo stories, videos and blogs from our staff and patients.

      Join our social communities

      Our social communities are lively places and are full of topical debate. They are the best places to get our news as it happens. Please join us on Facebook, Instagram, Pinterest and Twitter.

      SMALLAXE says,please be aware,I know everyone can’t donate but
      Please take notice of what is being done in our Name

      Patient story
      A man who brought his sister to an MSF field hospital

      “We heard the sound of explosions… I told my sister to move and find shelter, as it was close. She was behind me, about five metres. A bomb landed near her. She was covered in rubble. I shouted: “Are you hurt, sister?” She replied: “Yes, I am!” I ran towards her and saw that shrapnel had hit her face. Blood was coming out of her neck … We shouted for a car. Thankfully there was one nearby. We took her to the hospital, where they stopped the bleeding. Her situation is stable now.
      If there were no hospital, she’d have died. We need medical care. In my sister’s case, she needs doctors, care, drugs. As you know, we have nothing here. We need support in medication, doctors, ambulances capable of transporting patients immediately, everything.”
      THIS IS SYRIA NOW WINGERS.IF EVER PEACE AND LOVE WERE NEEDED
      IT IS HERE.

      I have only put in one patients story,there are hundreds and
      hundreds more

    177. Chic McGregor says:

      DMH and Smallaxe

      Moving contributions, Thanks.

    178. call me dave says:

      Grey vote trumps young millenials when it comes to turnout – and setting UK’s future, research shows

      http://archive.is/1OW12

    179. It was the axis of evil – the US and the UK that funded the Islamic fanatics against Syria’s properly elected regime. Don’t ever allow that to be forgotten. Only Russia is legally in Syria at the invitation of the Syrian government. It is entirely possible that the US bombed those Syrian forces deliberately to try to provoke Syria. I believe Assad and Putin before I believe the US which has been lying about Syria for ten years.

    180. Why should we be surprised at any behaviour of the Labour Party in Scotland? Every one of their Scottish MPS colluded in burying the McCrone report and betrayed the people they were elected to serve as they did so.

      The cry is “Labour voting with the Tories against Scotland” and that should be repeated continuously.

    181. Smallaxe says:

      HOW LUCKY ARE WE, HOW LUCKY COULD WE BE,THIS COULD BE YOUR KID

      Amnesty International UK Home
      Amnesty International UK
      Help young girls start a revolution and end child marriage
      Moussa Ouedraogo, Human Rights Coordinator for Amnesty International Burmina Faso
      Can you imagine a country where girls as young as 11 are being forced to marry men old enough to be their grandfathers?

      For young girls in Burkina Faso and Sierra Leone, they don’t have to imagine it. They are living this horror every day.

      But now they have started a revolution. They are standing up and saying no to the tradition that denies them an education, a life of their own and their human rights.

      DO YOU STILL THINK THAT WE ARE TOO POOR TOO WEE TOO STUPID, WINGERS

      Dear Smallaxe,Thank you for your generosity

      My name is Moussa Ouedraogo, and I’m a Human Rights Coordinator for Amnesty International in Burkina Faso.

      Before I started working with Amnesty, I was a school teacher in Burkina Faso. I always worried when a girl stopped coming to class, because it usually meant her family had sold her off to be married.

      Their fathers told me that even though they know child marriage is illegal, upholding tradition is more important. They don’t see the point in sending their daughter to school. Like the generation before them, they see their daughter as nothing more than property to be traded.

      The situation is urgent. Many girls who are forced to marry end up pregnant before they’ve even turned 15. Girls are dying because their bodies are simply too young to cope with the trauma of childbirth. I also know of girls who’ve died after being infected with HIV by their new husband.

      Help end child marriage in Burkina Faso and Sierra Leone – donate today

      But the situation is not hopeless. The tide is changing in Burkina Faso. Girls are learning that they can say no to being ripped out of school, no to being forced to have sex, and no to being married off while they’re still children. They’re standing up for their rights. But they can’t do it alone.

      You can help support our work in schools to make sure every girl knows she has a right to an education, and the right to have a say in what happens to her body.

      Join the revolution to end child marriage

      My Amnesty colleagues and I have learned from our years of experience working with communities that only education can bring about lasting social change. That is why we run education programmes in five communities in Burkina Faso, teaching them about the rights of girls and women.

      We hold weekly meetings with parents and traditional leaders to show them that another future for young girls is possible – one where they can finish school and live independently.

      And change is already happening. I’ve had parents tell me they’ve changed their minds about child marriage after coming to an Amnesty-led workshop – and decided not to marry off their daughters. We know from the numbers that more girls are staying in school and fewer are being married off. With your help, we hope to reach over 7,000 girls at risk of child marriage in Burkina Faso and Sierra Leone.

      Thank you once again

      Regards,

      Moussa Ouedraogo

      Human Rights Coordinator, Amnesty International Burkina Faso

    182. silver19 says:

      Listen to the UKIP bullshit :-
      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-37445960
      Win Win my a**e it’s lose lose, Westminster will continue to run Scotland down with more worthless vows, Scotland must escape this madness asap.

    183. manandboy says:

      O/T Why, if Scotland always needs financial support from England, Westminster is desperate to keep Scotland.

      Better Together /Westminster /any Tory politician/ David Cameron – Theresa May /the BBC, NO ONE will answer this question.
      There IS an answer, maybe several, but more likely just one. So this an easy question to answer, and yet, to my knowledge, no Unionist anywhere has or will answer it.

      Almost as puzzling is that the Scottish Government does not know. If true, then the answer is a secret – a British State Secret.

      And yet, we are not without clues, one of which is the fact that David Cameron, who got so much wrong while Prime Minister, got the ‘right result’ in IndyRef14.
      But in doing so, he did some rather strange things, one being that there were no exit polls, and another being that he got up early on the 19th September, announced the result, and then immediately launched English Votes for English Laws.
      Almost as if he wanted no further discussion about IndyRef14. Lest the secret became exposed? No exit polls, lest the secret be exposed?

      There are other clues which tie IndyRef14 to this great unanswered question as to why England clings on for dear life to its Scottish Basket Case. But for the moment it is sufficient to raise the question again for it surely must shine light on the ongoing Brexit fiasco, in which Westminster has been given a perfect opportunity to get rid of its subsidy junkie northern colony which voted 62% to remain in the EU, but yet again refuses to let Scotland go while giving no explanation.

    184. manandboy says:

      Just watched Diane James UKIP leader telling us that she’s now working out of Tory HQ, toeing the Unionist line, and telling us that although Scotland is a shit hole full of subsidy addicts, Brexit is a win-win opportunity. So, forget about Independence in the EU, please stay in the UK, and with all your new devolved powers, you too can have a great new life ruled by the Tories and UKIP.

      But she’s not giving away the secret is she.

    185. Onwards says:

      ClanDonald says:
      22 September, 2016 at 3:20 pm

      There was a very good reason that an oil fund was never created. It’s the same reason that one will never be created in the future. Quite simply Scotland would be able to claim ownership of it. It would make independence even more attractive if a multi billion pound fund was part of the settlement.

      Instead it was decided to invest it in infrastructure in the south west; road and rail networks, sewers, tunnels, flood barriers, ports, airports. That way London could benefit from Scotland’s oil for generations to come and Scotland could never have a claim over it.
      —————

      Of course that’s the reason.
      Scotland would never be allowed to build up a nest egg.

      If we get a second wind for the North Sea in a couple of years, then taking control of the remaining reserves would be a huge vote winner.

      It might only last another 20 years before it is unprofitable to extract, as electric vehicles become commonplace.

      A selling point for a second referendum could be a plan to nationalise the industry and make sure Scotland uses the remaining reserves to give us a long term legacy, including money to invest in renewables.

      An independent Scotland could bump up increase oil taxation to the point where it would be desirable for the current oil companies to sell stakes in the fields to a national energy company.

    186. Lenny Hartley says:

      O/T There is a story on the Canary.co about the polling company Survation ‘s link to Owen Smith and manipulating polls which may be of interest to wosers . I can’t copy the url but it’s worth a read.

    187. Smallaxe says:

      manandboy:

      There is No secret,Westminster has been borrowing £Trillions,
      in order to get very large loans one needs Collateral,
      What and who do you think they used.Now you can only have one
      Guess….Got it? Welcome to the Pawnshop!

      Peace Love and Pawn tickets

    188. Capella says:

      @ Lenny Henry
      archived Canary article about Owen Smith and links to Survation.

      http://archive.is/wOM71

    189. Capella says:

      Oops sorry Hartley not Henry – that’s somebody else!

    190. manandboy says:

      Borrowing Trillions, Smallaxe? I’m familiar with the collateral principle, Smallaxe, but I have never come across any references to such borrowing. It would surely be visible somewhere.

    191. manandboy says:

      If, as Smallaxe suggests, the UK Government has been taking out huge loans using N Sea oil & gas as security, then with Independence, the lenders are going to be very unhappy and probably want their money back. Dodgy Dave – fits like a glove.

    192. Sharney Dubs says:

      Capella says:
      22 September, 2016 at 1:11 pm
      @ Manandboy – I was reminded of the Ogoni people in the Niger delta. More dangerous for them and Ken Sara Wiwa, who was judicially murdered by the state for protesting about the destruction of their economy.

      Capella, I think it is a grave mistake to compare the Ogoni situation with that of Scotland, the two social conditions are worlds apart.

    193. Ken500 says:

      Thank goodness the SNP Gov are going to end sanctions. Stop food banks? People might be able to sleep at night.

      The Tories/Osbourne destroyed the Oil sector for spite, to try and stop the campaign for Independence. To continue Tory rule in Scotland. The Tories/Unionists are in disrepute trying to ruin the Scottish economy. Never trust a Tory. The UKIP woman is delusional. A real chancer. Farague has made his £Multimillions from tax payers money. Illegally funding a political Party.

      The Tories committed electoral fraud in 31 constituencies. Yet nothing is done about it. The Tories and there associates are illegally syphoning off £Billions off public money on grotesque projects to line their pockets in fees, consultancies and illegal manipulation of the Treasury accounts. Costing Scotland for Westminster total mismanagement and deceit.

      They are trying to ruin the Scottish economy. Taking the UK out of the EU. The Tory minority are trying to take the UK out of the EU against the majority wishes. It will not work. Causing instability and ruling the world economy. Trident will go. Scotland doesn’t have enough patrols boats to patrol it’s shore. To stop illegal shipments of drugs, which affect the local communities and society by causing ill health, death and destruction.

      When will minimum pricing come. To stop the unhealthy consumption of ‘loss leading’ alcohol and extra cost on society. Westminster should be drink and drug tested. Decisions are made by people doped up and under the influence of drink. Dope on a rope. Led by people who can’t walk and talk at the same time.

      Scottish Oil revenues were completely wasted. On illegal wars, banking fraud and tax evasion. Westminster Unionists completely wasted it, while completely wasted. A complete waste of time. Illegally, lying, cheating in every way. Do not let them get away with it.

      SNP/SNP May 2017. Twice to keep the shysters out.

    194. Smallaxe says:

      Good morning everyone:

      manandboy:
      Be careful with my posts,sometimes even I don’t know when I’m
      joking or just a good guesser. 🙂

      Funny predictive text thingy,when I was writing the word joking,it comes up with Loki,now that Is a joke.

      Peace Love and predictive text

      It’s still dark this morning!

    195. Smallaxe says:

      Don’t anybody worry,you haven’t got tinnitus,it’s just me whistling a wee tune,while I’m waiting for Nana’s links.

      Peace Always

    196. Smallaxe says:

      There’s a great echo in Wings theatre in the mornings,listen!
      Johneeey dismemberrr MEeee,that was the serial killer song!
      Good echo intit!

      Peace Love and Phone the Polis 🙂

    197. Smallaxe says:

      That’s the 200th post on this thread, I await my prize.

      Peace Always

    198. T.roz says:

      Right Rev, you have now ruined my day. Can we get this article distributed through every chanel known to man? Scotland has got to understand this, scotland has to see this, just as you have laid it out here.

    199. Smallaxe says:

      Ken500 says:
      23 September, 2016 at 6:18 am
      “Thank goodness the SNP Gov are going to end sanctions. Stop food banks? People might be able to sleep at night.”

      I think that we’ve got you to thank for that Ken,you’ve been
      Bringing it to peoples’ attention for months.Thank you Ken!

      Peace Love and perseverance Ken

    200. Breeks says:

      My last word on UDI?

      Why should a UDI provoke civil war? 40 years theft of our oil, the decimation of our heavy industry, the contempt they have for our culture, decades of propaganda, chronic under investment, the routine subversion of our democracy, the disrespect for our sovereignty, and all the other betrayals from the mightiest McCrone epic to the peurile insults of deep fried Mars bars hasn’t moved us to open rebellion. What is wrong with us that none of that has provoked us to civil unrest and disorder? How big a slap in the face does it take? Whose bright idea was it for the unionists to have the monopoly on fire and brimstone?

      Don’t misunderstand, I do not advocate such drastic measures, but there are days and there are times when even a difficult and protracted UDI seems no worse or unthinkable an option than another bout of UK politicking culminating with another “democratic” triumph for the propagandists and parasites who will cheat us dry at every turn, lie at random, manipulate the media agenda, and defend the monopolised media as it deluges us with anti-independence propaganda. To be clear, I stop short of advocating a UDI, but it just feels like the fear of UDI resides in our psyche when it’s Westminster who ought to fear the possibility more than we do.

      Furthermore, and irrespective of the subjective emotional outrage above, I have a genuine fear the Brexit negotiations are not going to run smoothly, and could be volatile and unpredictable. Westminster needs only to trigger Article 50, then renegotiate an exit with Europe which I rather suspect the EU would adopt in a heartbeat. There is a credible opinion the Brexit negotiations are impracticle in the two year timespan. Yet In the same timescale, which could be shorter than two years, perhaps much shorter, if talks break down or EU expels the UK for violation of treaties, then suddenly Scotland has to squeeze in an emergency referendum, raise the YES army from its slumber, hold the referendum, win the referendum, and then negotiate our exit from the UK when the UK is champing at the bit to exit Europe as quick as it can.

      Frankly, there are times we seem as naive about the timescale and complexity of process for exiting the UK as the UK is utterly clueless about Brexit. I repeat, I stop short of advocating UDI over a referendum, but I think it might be a strategic error that the UDI is never mentioned as a credible option, if only so folks have time to get used to the idea.

      I don’t think some people fully appreciate the fact that our EU membership is hanging by a thread, and if the UK finds itself out of Europe before Scotland has declared its independence, then we are out of Europe needing to re-apply. We are over the edge and into the Abyss. For all the encouraging words and promises, Europe can only help holding on to Scotland if Scotland has first made itself a nation state. No nation state? No EU membership, no holding pen status. Short of Independence, the ties which bind us will bind us to the UK.

      I simply believe it is prudent to have an effective quick release eject button, and quite simply that’s the UDI option. And paradoxically, the more credible the option seems, I think the less likely it is to be necessary. But if Brexit negotiations fail, collapse, or get overtaken by expulsion for treaty abuse, (all of which are credible options), Scotland might have to move much faster than a democratic referendum would allow or find its EU membership at an abrupt end. With a UDI, democracy can play catch-up with a ratification plebiscite, but critically our sovereignty and EU membership are held firm.

      Why do we declare the UDI the fifth horseman of the apocalypse? Isn’t that a line from the Unionist prayer book?Wouldn’t it steady the nerves if a UDI was not promoted as our nuclear option but merely reconnecting with a loyal old friend and faithful ally called Sovereignty, who stood up for our country in times of need, and held it together through wars, invasion, and heart breaking adversity, yet whom we somehow lost contact with some 300 years ago? UDI is our friend … no?

      Like I said at the beginning… That’s my thinking, and that’s me said my piece on it. If folks think it is agitating trouble, then I step away… but reluctantly, because I disagree.

    201. Steaphain says:

      Why are we not surprised at the squandering if oil revenues to prop up the City, it’s avoiders and evaders? Why wouldn’t we want a nuclear deterrent, rather than invest in our rail, road, port infrastructure? Perhaps if we vote for independence, we should nationalise all energy formats and use Norways StatOil and Wealth Fund be the model for managing what’s left of oil, whilst investing in renewables. Successive Labour, Liberal, Conservative & Unionist politicians have ensured we Scots were kept on the leash. Surely people can see that the Scottish Government is playing catch up from almost 50 years of mismanagement on all fronts. And is only now completing our motorway infrastructure. If Scotland had been invested in, over this period, we would have fast rail links between our cities, integrated transit systems in those cities, proper motorways and dual carriageways linking our ports, highlands, islands, lowlands, towns and cities. We’ve been shafted by the Westminster established order for centuries. It’s time we did something about it!

    202. Smallaxe says:

      Breeks:

      That piece was beautifully written and completely understood I
      have been watching as you were being shouted down about UDI,
      and I think anyone who has followed your posts,as you know I do,should have known that you were not advocating civil war,
      but exercising your frustration at the absurd situation that
      we now find ourselves in,through no fault of our own, I may add.

      I,like yourself,do not have the answer to our predicament, I wish I had, it’s maddening to feel as if we are sitting here
      with our hands tied and at the not so tender mercies of psychopathic dangerous people who care nought but for their own twisted plans,whatever those may be. I sometimes despair.

      Peace and Love my friend,is all I can offer for now!

    203. Smallaxe says:

      Nana Good morning,
      I know a fine lady methinks
      Each morning she sends me fine links
      From finish to start
      They are truth every part
      And there sent from her
      Big Golden Heart X

      Peace Love and Poetry

      And coffee with links. 🙂

    204. Macandroid says:

      I cannot tell you how angry the squandering of our resources makes me feel and all to make Tories (blue and red) and their chums rich.

      What Scotland could have done to improve the lives of her people we can only imagine.

      Time to take back control and since EVEL breaks the terms of the Treaty of Union, IMO, Scotland could just walk away any time she liked!

    205. Ken500 says:

      The Police Constable has a problem with Alzheimer’s. Too many innocent people are being ‘arrested’ and put in cells. 50% of charges never come to court. The Police are arresting innocent people and putting them in cells or are ignorant of the Law. The Police should be given more training in Scottish Law and additional needs. Then they might save public expense’s, overtime payments and get a week end off. The tail is wagging the dog. Back to front. There are too many unfilled Police vacancies.

      The Police are patrolling too many Orange Marches in the cities which should be banned by the Police and local authorities. The Orange Lodge is a minority, exclusive society which discriminates. It should not be supported by public funding. Against the majority wished and the public interest.

      Tommy Sheridan should be admonished and given compensation for lies told in court by the Murdoch organisation. Blair and Murdoch the biggest criminals of all. They break the Law with impunity. Blair is now shifting £Millions into charitable status because he could be sued for murdering people. Blair maimed and killed millions of innocent people.

      Before police would investigate a complaint and give a rebuke or warning, Now they arrest people and put them in cells and then investigate. Putting innocent people in overcrowded cells wasting time and public money and trying to criminalise half the population. Is this an attempt to put up the arrest rate? Too many people with additional needs are in prison because they did not receive essential help in the community. Scotland is proportionately an essential Law abiding Nation.

      Most crime is committed while under the influence of drink or drugs. Proper ”one chance’ total abstinence rehab counselling is cheaper than prison. Saving public, police time and money. Local council authorities should be providing essential services with the money provided. Instead of building grotesque, non mandated, monstrosities projects on borrowed money. Wasting £MillionsBillions of public money. Creating traffic chaos. Against the majority wishes and the public interest.

      Vote SNP/SNP twice May 2017. For a better more equal and fair prosperous place.

    206. Dr Jim says:

      We need “Sir” Ian Wood on the case for us

      (Now there’s a man you can trust)

      Jeezus!! I even have trouble typing that sarcastically

    207. frogesque says:

      The delicious irony. Kez, leader of the UK’s Abstention Party (Northern branch office) wailing over buttongate.

      It’s still a wake up call for the SNP though, that was too close for comfort.

    208. ronaldtar@hotmail.co.uk says:

      O/T
      https://www.facebook.com/139806682840457/videos/vb.139806682840457/662995283854925/?type=2&theater

      There are no friends in Polotics only the Controled.

    209. Callum says:

      and… chatting to a helicopter pilot who operates in the North Sea – he said you could always tell whether the platform was Norweigen or UK; the UK platforms were in an absoluet state of underinvestment compared to top-notch Norweigen platforms.

    210. Tinto Chiel says:

      Breeks: UDI should be the last option, once all democratic means have been denied or when we have been acted upon illegally or unjustly.

      Independence is easy: you use a stubby wee pencil and put a cross in the right place on a bit of paper. If we can’t get enough of us to do that, how could we pull off UDI with the complete opposition of rUK and the EU?

      An article like the Rev’s on the scandalous mismanagement of our oil industry is just the kind of thing to change the minds of Soft Noes.

      It’s our job to make the difference in the next referendum by persuasion. We have even more arguments than
      last time.

      Dave McEwen Hill @ 12.57: I would agree with your analysis regarding Syria. The USA/UK want Assad removed simply because he is an ally of Russia. As they did in Afghanistan and elsewhere, they funded Islamic extremists for short-term goals who then predictably went rogue and now threaten all of us in Europe. At the same time they are in cahoots with the religious extremists in Saudi Arabia. The atrocities in Yemen are ignored in our press because Saudi Arabia is carrying them out.

      The MSM have normalised USA/UK acting illegally in invading other countries but only foreign forces invited in by the government of a country are there legally.

      The UN is supposed to be the world’s policeman, not individual states.

      Syria was a cultured and ancient culture which is now a wasteland.

    211. Capella says:

      @ Sharney Dubs
      We share a couple of things with the Ogoni. We are governed by the British state which exploits our resources for its own benefit, not ours. We have international oil companies extracting oil and profiting but no profit comes to us.
      Nigeria became independent in 1960 after a nationalist struggle but was left carved up along ethnic lines to create division. Similar to other British former colonies.

      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigeria

    212. Nana says:

      @Smallaxe

      Thanks for the morning poem! Just got the links posted before my computer installed updates so apologies for not replying sooner.

    213. galamcennalath says:

      Looks like another big decision for Kezia.

      Just after the EU vote, she (like everyone except the Tories) voted to try to find a means to keep Scotland in the ESM. Nicola was charged to find a solution.

      Now we hear that Labour are contemplating giving up on the ESM and presumably just going along with their Troy chums.

      So what’s it to be Kezia? How does British Labour in Scotland stand on Brexit? Insist on ESM as a minimum, or go hard with the Tories?

      Personally, I reckon BLiS want to be part of a united Unionist side as IndyRef2 approaches, so lining up with the Tories will be their choice.

      Of course, a disintegrating and fragmenting Labour might be more of a problem in the short term.

    214. Another Union Dividend says:

      Misleading headlines (well photo captions) # 1320

      On Lothian MSP expenses, Edinburgh Evening News features photos of three SNP MSPs under caption Hey, Big Spenders.

      However at bottom of the article one learns that Labour’s Iain Gray claimed more than any of the three SNP MSPs £4000 more in one case and £3000 more in another.

      List MSPs normally claim a lot less than constituency MSPs but Labour’s Neil Findlay and Sarah Boyack claimed more than the SNP’s Gordon Macdonald.

      Lazy journalism didn’t even tabulate the MSPs in order of claims or differentiate between constituency and list MSPs.

      Political anoraks know the difference but not most of the readers.

    215. Robert Peffers says:

      @G H Graham says: 23 September, 2016 at 12:30 am:
      ” … But you have to hand it the BBC Shortbread. First class job on disseminating decades of “oil is actually a bad deal for Scotland” propaganda”.

      Och! G H!

      Their success was a simple thing as it followed the BBC’s rubbishing of the SNP campaign that was headed, “It’s Scotland’s Oil”.

      After the Westminster Establishment had laid claim to all the Oil & Gas as being from the United Kingdom’s, “Extraregio Territory”. It was easy for their propaganda wing to then rubbish the Scottish sector as bad for Scotland.

      The really sickening thing was the blatant way the Scottish Unionists elected members gleefully stood firmly behind the Westminster Establishment knowing full well they were ripping off Scotland’s natural resources for the Establishment.

      Remember also how they colluded in the hiding away of the McCrone Report for all those years. Any genuine Scottish politician, with Scotland’s interests at heart, should have been fighting tooth & nail for Scotland, and for their own constituency electors best interests.

      Quite obviously they were looking after their own, and the Westminster Establishment’s best interests.

    216. Brian Powell says:

      frogesque

      What is surprising is the Greens must have voted with Lab, Libs and Conservatives on a Conservative amendment. The Conservatives don’t support the Greens at all but many SNP voters gave Greens their ‘second’ votes.

    217. Proud Cybernat says:

      @ Smallaxe

      “… it’s maddening to feel as if we are sitting here with our hands tied…”

      Our hands aren’t so tied as to prevent us from placing a small X in the YES box come IndyRef#2. Enough of us do that then we will have our indy. UDI not required and will lead only to an utter mess and misery. END OF.

    218. heedtracker says:

      Coffee time with Crash. It would be great to be able to ask the mad bastard why exactly there is no Norway style oil fund, just debt, giant Scottish democracy bludgeoning UKOK debt.

      http://archive.is/SzUuK

      The former Prime Minister has been offering his private advice to wavering backbenchers, stressing that voters will only back Labour if it is united, one party source said.”

      Fcuk off Crash.

      David Milliband in there too, WoS RT’s he gets nearly a half a million a year as the boss of International Rescue in NY NY. The trough extends around the planet for these bizarre UKOK failures.

    219. Robert Graham says:

      I like many was surprised at the amount of opposition to the proposed change to the (poll tax renamed whatever tax )every single party was consulted on their proposals for the changes they themselves were jumping up and down for,These idiots many of who sneaked in the back door at Holyrood via the list couldnt agree or even propose to agree on the time of day, if left to this moaning bunch nothing would be done , this lot have previous ” the named person act ” we like it we dont like it we oppose it – preparations to protect Scots voters in the aftermath of the Brexit vote we are with you we are not with you we oppose it , all this shite is going on and is being activly and conveniently covered by our oh so neutral press and media .

    220. heedtracker says:

      Our hands aren’t so tied as to prevent us from placing a small X in the YES box come IndyRef#2. Enough of us do that then we will have our indy. UDI not required and will lead only to an utter mess and misery. END OF.

      Me no psephologist, but ref 2 third option Devo-max with YES/NO is maybe the way forward. It does 2 things, provides a choice for Brits in Scotland that do not want Scotland to actually exist or usurp the UK and it protects proud Scotbuts Britishness. So what if the union jack flaps rampant over Scotland, for another decade or so, if Scotland is actually being run by Scotland.

      Question mark left off for obvious reasons:D

      Also chrome spellcheck says Britishness is actually Brutishness. We have a thug media but are we thugs?

      http://www.peeblesshirenews.com/news/14749930.Hate_crime_is_falling__despite_Brexit/

    221. BLL97 says:

      Heath/Wilson/Callaghan/Thatcher/Major also spent countless hundreds of millions of North Sea revenue in ensuring the north of Ireland did not re-join the Republic of Ireland from 1969-1999.

      Their sense of Empire would not allow them to lose face to Irish catholic civil rights desire for a better life. Oil revenues paid for this hubris.

      If you want to know why a Hard Border doesn’t work read about the absolute sqaundering of our revenues that built the necklace of watchtowers in the 80’s. At no stage did they stop the illegal movement of contraband arms, fuels/oils/alcohol and tobacco goods and insurgents across the border.

      http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/no-appetite-for-brexit-return-to-watchtowers-on-irish-border-leaders-say-34904590.html

    222. Smallaxe says:

      Nana:

      Please,please do not ever apologise to me for whatever reason,
      as you already know, I and many many others await your posts in great anticipation every day but and it’s a big BUT we do
      realise that you do, like all of us have a life,home,family
      and other commitments to attend to,over and as well as Wings.

      You are an unpaid volunteer on a zero hour contract and worth
      Westminster Palaces weight in gold young lady (he patronises)

      When you are ready to send your links we are ready to receive
      them,At your convenience not Ours.

      I send you Peace Love and Gratitude from all of us (Fans)

    223. Breeks says:

      It’s not that I lack faith in democracy, it is that I lack faith in pseudo democracy corrupted and invalidated by propaganda and institutional mendacity.

      How corrupt and dysfunctional must the process and system become before it registers as an invalid result which becomes a double edged sword for everybody?

    224. Proud Cybernat says:

      @ Heed

      “…but ref 2 third option Devo-max with YES/NO is maybe the way forward.”

      Possibly but ONLY with Devo-Max clearly defined and agreed beforehand by Holyrood and WM. No vagueness allowed which will simply allow them to deliver eff all and say “We delivered”.

      Also, perhaps three options rated by your 1st, 2nd and 3rd preferences. Least favoured option knocked out and those then distributed to the other 2 remaining options to get am overall majority.

      It’ll never happen though. WM will always make it a binary choice, indy or status quo. That way they can control the outcome by terrorising the elderly.

    225. Ken500 says:

      It might take the electorate time to work out the relative voting system, and not cancel out their vote. SNP/SNP/SNP. The 2nd/3rd choice is not democracy. The Unionist/Green Party.

    226. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      Robert Graham says at 10:19 am

      “I like many was surprised at the amount of opposition to the proposed change to the (poll tax renamed whatever tax )every single party was consulted on their proposals for the changes they themselves were jumping up and down for”

      Robert,

      The point is that the MSM (printed and on screen) need to scream from the roof tops that the Conservatives, ably commanded by the Ruthsfuhrer have defeated the SNP Govt.

      They need this at all costs.

      The Tories stood as “a stronger opposition” and “to hold the SNP to account”

      If they don’t get a victory they can be challenged on this promise to the electorate and shown to be impotent.

      All the Yoon Parties will back each other to the hilt (regardless to any previous position on a subject/vote) to ensure a Scots Gov. defeat (regardless of whether it is detrimental to the Scottish people or its economy)

      It is similar to their approach to the Named Person and OBFA.

      Any such victory will be used to continue their “SNP have peaked” mantra they churn out.

    227. heedtracker says:

      Proud Cybernat says:
      23 September, 2016 at 11:02 am
      @ Heed

      “…but ref 2 third option Devo-max with YES/NO is maybe the way forward.”

      Majority for devo-max 3rd option is not mentioned much for obvious reasons but its still there. It does seem likely that it would be also be another The Vow 2 shyst but it keeps the heat under tory britnats, red and blue. Lose ref 2 and planet toryboy will have the reins of power, from London, over their Scotland region for ever.

      Euan Macspanner explains toryboy problems to his ever dwindling hootsman readership. Fair enough, dudes like McSpanner here are ferocious toryboy propagandists but they are weakening by the day.

      http://archive.is/RLTTB

      Unionists should be concerned.
      After the last referendum, the No campaign fragmented and its members went back to normal life.”

      Usual toryboy lie. Crash and the Flipper legged it, if “back to normal life” is dodging an actual general election, off to the Lords, seat on Morgan Stanley board, routine monstering Scottish democracy BBC style, like great socialist worker Flipper. Yesterday’s Andrew Neil show’s worth a look on iplayer, elected SNP MP faces unlected tory lord Forsythe, Forsythe sits in Pacific Quay, laughing, sneering and a jeering, at everything Scottish democracy, shock.

    228. Proud Cybernat says:

      Funny how the colonial media always pump out the phrase, “SNP obssessed with independence.”

      Why do they never say, “SNP obssessed with being a normal country like all other independent countries”?

      Funny that. (Sniggers).

    229. McDuff says:

      cynicalHighlander

      20000 can turn up for a football march or a music event, yet 2000 turn out for a rally promoting the independence of their country.
      I`m sorry but this is apathy on a grand scale or maybe people really don`t care. I`m not a pessimist i`m just telling it the way it is.

    230. Smallaxe says:

      Proud Cybernat:

      Of course, I agree with you on the matter of UDI.When I was interviewed by RTE’one in 2014,it was the main point that I put across”For one of the first time’s in history a Nation desiring Independence can lift only a pen and not the sword to
      achieve their goals by bloodless means”I apologise if I have
      clumsily mislead you inadvertently my friend.keep up with the
      Imgur please,thoroughly enjoy them.

      Peace Always

    231. Ken500 says:

      The Head of the CAA (a former helicopter pilot) colluded with the Westminster Tory Transport Minister Robert Goodwill to prevent a Public Inquiry, into Helicopters falling from the sky in the North Sea. In case the cause was pilot error? The cause turned out to be helicopters not being grounded because of breaches in UK Gov Health & Safety rules. The necessity of providing a paper trail of the maintenance in helicopter maintenance systems. Phone calls and discussion were not recorded. Leading to further crashes and people dying.

      The downturn in the Oil sector resulted in the lay off of many helicopter pilots. Often ex services people. The Helicopter firm involved, owner’s (relatives) sold the company two years later for £250Million. Without censor. Got a free get out of jail card. After breaking UK Gov Health & Safety Law and serious negligence.

      Hammond spent £2Billion modifying forces Helicopter fleet. Many helicopters used in the North Sea Oil sector are 30/40 years old. They should have been scrapped long ago. The rigs are now being commissioned they are 30/40 years old. Going out of productive use because of age and should have been scrapped long ago.

      There are new ways of extracting Oil using massive barges which are transferable to different sectors worldwide. There is an opportunity for manufacture if there was investment. It is a return to the methods used in extraction in the first methods of production. Oil tankers collected the Oil in hock up in the fields and returned it to land refineries.

      BP the worst company in economic history.

    232. Ken500 says:

      Scotland proportionately, is a very Law abiding country

    233. Capella says:

      We may be law abiding but we are governed by a deeply corrupt City of London government. Tax havens, money laundering, bankers bonuses etc is the real business of UK. Where has all the oil money gone?

      See Transparency International report on How Corrupt Capital is Used to Buy Property in the UK (mainly City of London but a few Highland Estates might also be in the mix).

      http://issuu.com/transparencyuk/docs/ti-uk_corruption_on_your_doorstep?e=10896477/11687028

    234. Al McNab says:

      There should be an offence for governments that the people can charge them with –

      “Governing without due care and attention”!

      or in the case of the uk government is it –

      “Governing dangerously to the detriment of all”!

      As for wee kez, it must be incredibly difficult to chose between two buttons, one blue and one red – they both mean the same thing don’t they?

      Way to go key, you’ll be making your own bed and putting on lips soon!

    235. heedtracker says:

      Every time you look. If only the Pacific Quay panjandrums could stand for election but that’s not how teamGB democrats want to play.

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-37438056

      “The SNP were staring defeat in the face; in fact having lost the vote on the amendment they were expecting it.

      They were as relieved when the score came out 63-each as opposition members were outraged. Who had let the air out of their carefully planned manoeuvre to embarrass the government?”

      Not for the actual good governance of Scotland.

    236. Proud Cybernat says:

      Poor Kez – still doesn’t know which way she’s buttoned…

      http://imgur.com/a/LrADp

    237. manandboy says:

      The British Empire (1783 – 2016) relied on death and torture as means of controlling native populations through terror. But the English were no different in that regard from other empires. It is estimated that the British Establishment killed over 150 million people under its rule.

      It’s what they do as they subjugate other nations.

      Like Scotland.

    238. shug says:

      This needs to be circulated to every unionist in Scotland, every church minister,union rep, labour party, conservative too with the message you are responsible for this!!
      You voted for this
      Do not do it again

    239. Robert Graham says:

      I forgot to mention in my previous rant Patrick & the Greens and the part they helpfully played yesterday .
      Well Patrick any thoughts of possibly giving my second preference vote to your party in the next election has went south my friend and i hope others will view your party as just another one of the moaning bunch that makes up the unionist parties.
      Yesterdays vote shows how important the Last Holyrood elections were and the big push and promotion of other left leaning and green parties at the expense of the SNP was, most of us were probably a bit complacent after the shock Westminster result ,and did not see the significance of that result , yesterday brought that into sharp focus and was an early warning of next years vote it aint in the bag by any means be warned .

    240. Andrew McLean says:

      I see Siobhan McFadyen has been trolling again, little dig about the Scottish Government only being “legally” named an executive, this statement as incompetent as the latest utterances from UKIP on the Sun being responsible for tidal action, has me wondering what her angle is?
      Trolling in her newspaper, for what? was she asked by her editor “go out, make mischievous comments and see if you can get some more clicks for our advertisers?” Is she on bonus, I honestly cant take her seriously anymore, she is like a parody, like the bloke in Drop the Dead Donkey, a joke a caricature.

      On the other hand she could be serious, in that case clearly deranged, or being fed shit, so either way the only way I can take her is as a comedienne, a parody like the pub landlord out to create disorder the fool recognising the trigger, and braying like a goat, or is that SNP Baah ing?.

      A glass of wine for the lady, https://www.khanacademy.org/humanities/monarchy-enlightenment/baroque-art1/holland/v/jan-vermeer-the-glass-of-wine-c-1661

    241. Ken500 says:

      Just as people were warned about a NO IndyRef vote. They were warned about the Greens malicious, duplicity.

    242. manandboy says:

      Remember when Gordon Brown came up to Scotland during Indy14 to deliver his threats, warnings and vows and how it was always televised by the BBC from secure venues with only rentacrowd inside. And do you remember how Gordon always stood facing the camera with about twenty people behind him, and on the TV screen there was also a few dark outlines of people in one or two rows in front of Gordon facing him.

      Furthermore, we were told that for security reasons, wide angle shots were not being used nor were shots of the actual building itself from the outside.

      Based on techniques developed in the USA TV industry, it seems likely that these televised Brown speeches were in fact shot in London, and that the ‘audience’ were either extras or indeed were added later.
      To do this, Brown would simply give his speech in front of a ‘green screen’ with only PR and the TV crew in attendance, and everthing else in the programme was added in an editing studio.
      This method also allows for any number of ‘takes’ and rehearsals which would be impossible with a live audience listening to a political speech.

      So when you see a politician speak on television, pay close attention, for it may not be what it appears to be.

    243. galamcennalath says:

      Breeks says:

      ” I lack faith in pseudo democracy corrupted and invalidated by propaganda and institutional mendacity.”

      I sympathise completely. Pseudo democracy is a fair description.

      The Yes side try to do everything all democratic and proper. The Unionists pretend to when it suits them, but are perfectly willing to undermine democracy when they might lose!

      They play their game of pseudo dem at WM where different rainbow Tories jostle in the FPTP where minority takes all. They have their own perverse rules for their own game.

      It’s when someone else threatens their wee world with real democracy they act to preserve their way of doing things.

      The question is always at the back of my mind – just how far will they go to thwart the democratic will of the Scottish people?

      And of course, how far would go in response?

      In IndyRef2, to say the eyes of the EU will be upon us all, is an understatement! Let’s hope they bring pressure to bare to keep things fair and above board this time.

      In an ideal world, the outcome of rUK’s Brexit negotiations should be tied to ensuring Scotland’s democratic will is respected.

    244. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      The SNP proposed to raise the Council Tax on the richest and ease the burden on the less well-off and Labour voted against it with the Tories?

      Help me Rhona. I’m getting confused

    245. Keith fae Leith says:

      Suffering BBC news 24 in the work canteen.

      Reporting on a record year for Brittish tourism, from Stonehenge, quoting July figures and talking about a “Post-Brexit bounce” all throughout Brittain.

      Camera cuts to the Eden Project, then the Brittish museum.

      I’ve complained, fruitlessly, about BBC reporting “post-Brexit” when it hasn’t happened yet.

      Response is: Everyone know it hasn’t happened, we’re reporting on post-brexit vote, occasionally miss out the important word, back and eat your porridge, we know you have an EH postcode.

      I’m also curious how a pst-brexit bounce can be felt for July, when the vote was in June, people tend to plan holiday’s a little further in advance.

      Secondly, how 3 locations in very south of England represents “across Britain”

      Answers on a postcard?

    246. dcanmore says:

      Brexit is going to get messy soon, and UK will lose out heavily. Robert Peston writes: ‘Occasionally I write something worth reading. This could be one of those times’ …

      https://www.facebook.com/pestonitv/posts/1697230203935051

      We seriously need to gain independence in 2018 or before.

    247. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      And the Greens and the LibDems. This is political posturing at its worst. They all know that council tax benefit is not devolved and that Westminster will withhold it if the SNP abolish the Council Tax

    248. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      Dave McEwan Hill says at 1:36 pm

      “Labour voted against it with the Tories.”

      This is the main point being ignored by the MSM in favour of Kezia’s “Button Gate” calamity.

      The alleged Party of the Worker, siding with the Tories to punish the most vulnerable in Scotland once again.

      and Dave McEwan Hill says at 1:49 pm

      “The political posturing from the Greens and the Lib Dems”

      This will continue and I suspect the APD vote will go the same way.

      As I said in part of my post at 11:18 am today:

      All the Yoon Parties will back each other to the hilt (regardless to any previous position on a subject/vote) to ensure a Scots Gov. defeat (regardless of whether it is detrimental to the Scottish people or its economy).

      I include the Green Party with the rest of the Yoons.

    249. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Hi all
      Zombie Banks and currency options
      Andy Anderson is on http://www.argyllradio.co.uk again tonight from 7pm talking with me about currency options for an independent Scotland and the fraud that is our major banking services.

    250. One_Scot says:

      OMG, words fail me,

      https://twitter.com/mikebell48/status/779294236755759104

      Please don’t let this be the people in charge of our future.

    251. manandboy says:

      English mantra – ‘Scotland does not pay its way’.

      But guess what, neither does Britain. Robert Peston, now unshackled from the BBC, tells us on his FB page, ‘Britain is not paying its way in the world – we are suffering from a record 7% current account deficit.

    252. Iain More says:

      OT Yesterdays vote

      So let me get this right. The Tories in alliance with all the other Yoon creeps voted against the SNP because they the Tories claimed that the SNP failed to introduce a Local Income Tax. EH!

      If my memory serves me right it was virtually the same mendacious Yoons that conducted a daily propaganda campaign back in 2007-8 to stop such an LIT ever happening.

      I would split my sides laughing if the SNP had an about face and decided to introduce such a Tax. Make the Tories and all the other Yoon piglets squeal by taxing the air out of them!

      The Fib Dooms were once in favour of an LIT but we know where their votes would go don’t we – they will vote with their fellow anti Scottish bigots since anything the SNP does is very BAAHD!

    253. sinky says:

      On LIT.

      There was a chance that council tax benefit will be devolved to Scotland by 2016. It was the last Labour government’s refusal to hand over the benefit that made the introduction of Local Income Tax problematic.

      Council tax was a major issue in the 2007 election, with the SNP and Liberal Democrats both promising to replace the unpopular charge with a form of local income tax based on the ability to pay. Under Labour, council tax increased by 60%.

      However, the recession, London’s refusal to hand over Scotland’s share of the council tax benefit, a £500m cut from London and the Liberal Democrats refusal to co-operate with the SNP at Holyrood meant the tax could not be introduced.

      Instead John Swinney, the Finance Secretary, froze council tax for four years, a policy that is so popular Labour recently performed a dramatic U-turn and copied it despite condemning it repeatedly at Holyrood and in the media.

    254. Breastplate says:

      For all those thinking that UDI is not the way to go, you may be right, for the moment.

      Circumstances change and we may well have to utilise UDI after Westminster fail to recognise in part or in whole our independence referendum and/ or the result.
      This could lead to the suspension of the Scottish Parliament.
      In this scenario many people, I believe, would demand UDI.

      Maybe UDI is the only message that Westminster will understand.
      I may be wrong but forewarned and all that.

    255. heedtracker says:

      ‘Britain is not paying its way in the world – we are suffering from a record 7% current account deficit

      He means in cash terms, this year they have to borrow between £180bn and £200+bn just to pay for older debt, that’s all it’s for, just debt. Puts the UKOK roasters vote NO for £15bn black-hole saving hysterics into some perspective.

      Maybe the hard core NO whatisface Fraser in Pacific Quay will explain it all one day. But just ask Crash Gordo, debt is good, it terrifies normal people and it terrifies them away from stuff like Scotland running Scotland. Cheap at half the er, price, UKOK style.

    256. heedtracker says:

      They may aswell sue God.

      “The study, which was conclusive and damning, showed that during coup against Corbyn, the BBC gave double the airtime to critics of the Labour leader than they did to his supporters.

      The study also found that issue frames on the BBC’s News at Six were consistently critical of the Labour leader. Additionally, there was a “strong tendency” within the BBC’s broadcasts for reporters to use baseless, disparaging remarks when describing Corbyn and his supporters. However, what is even more damning is that words that insinuate aggression and violence were only used to describe Corbyn as opposed to the Labour rebels who have been verbally attacking him for months on end.”

      Ha Ha.

    257. Meg merrilees says:

      Heedtracker – I agree about the fear of debt thing. My grandparents hammered into us repeatedly not to get into debt, live within your means, save up till you can afford something etc. Therefore, how can we possibly become a successful Independent country if we are 15bn in the red? Unthinkable amount! And ye have to have enough left to pay for your funeral, don’t forget!

      Sorry if this is old news – didn’t hear it yesterday. Media too busy talking about cakes and buttons!

      Now we’re being told that the new UKIP leader thinks Brexit will be a “win-win” for Scotland! She thinks our finances will be better within the Westminster system….

      How could 62% of us have got it so wrong?

    258. Capella says:

      This article puts into perspective the type of hysterical £15 b black hole rhetoric such a this venomous piece by Fraser Nelson in the March Spectator. We would be facing “sado-austerity” if independent. His graphic shows Norway at the OECD top with a 5.5% surplus and Scotland at the bottom with a 9.4% deficit.

      https://archive.is/v6skv

      He gets his figures from the George Osborne Office of Budget Responsibility. It, in turn, relies on GERS and its fanciful predictions. So if plucky little Norway (Oil, Independent) enjoys a vast surplus, how come little Scotland (Oil, not Independent) is so poor?

      http://www.ifs.org.uk/publications/8218

    259. heedtracker says:

      Meg merrilees, most governments since time began have debt, which is part of balancing the books. What is clear is that Gordon Prudence Brown started borrowing at far higher levels than ever before. The blue tories are no different. But why and what do they spend this borrowed money on? Did Crash Gordo slowly cotton on to just how powerful a political block on change massive debt has, want a new aircraft carrier at £3bn? fcuk it have two.

      And its not just central government either. I’m from Aberdeen where the yoon and SLab dominated council have run up a giant debt but for what and why?

      There’s nothing to show for ACC’s staggering debt but they are spending money like water, on white elephants like a nightmare office block in front of Marischal College. That’s over a £100 million gone, thanks to the great UKOK SLab buffoon Wullie Young, a landlord millionaire, running a yoon SLab council that’s not built any social housing for 35 years.

      Its debt and fear what wins it, UKOK style. Just ask Wullie.

    260. Dr Jim says:

      Ma wife ran up a whole load a debt gaed it tae the weans and bocht claes wae it fur hirsel and then telt me efter that ahv’e goat tae pay fur it

      Is that how a deficit works?

      (She didn’t really this is just a wee story, in case she reads this)

    261. galamcennalath says:

      Keith fae Leith says:

      “BBC reporting “post-Brexit” when it hasn’t happened yet.”

      They are all at it. Trying to present some sort of message like, ‘see, it wasn’t so bad after all‘.

      Just wait till WM admit it’s going to be hard Brexit and the markets plummet, no investment, no vacancies fill, cut backs.

      They should be using a phrase like ‘post EU Vote’.

    262. yesindyref2 says:

      And now for something completely different for the anti-frackers. No idea what it’ll be like but since I’m in a relaxing mood I’ll try Firequake at 4 pm on the Sifi channel:

      http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3969972/plotsummary?ref_=tt_ov_pl

    263. Vestas says:

      For anyone even thinking about UDI :

      1) Spain would veto entry into the EU as independence was not gained via constitutional means (WGD explained this on his blog a while back);

      2) The USA would not recognise us as an independent state. Reason – Trident & England’s desperate attempts to stay as a permanent member of the UN security council. The yanks would much rather England spent the money on things like planes & such like but no nukes = no seat & for England to lose that while France remains…oh deary me;

      3) Even if Spain were persuaded not to veto EU entry, its hard to see how we’d get to the head of the queue by essentially acting undemocratically.

      UDI is generally only ever acceptable to the “international community” where there is armed conflict – or oil/resources in the “West’s” interests.

      tl;dr – its a non-starter unless you want to start a civil war….

    264. Proud Cybernat says:

      All calm on the surface…

      http://imgur.com/a/EqYFN

    265. Keith fae Leith says:

      Cheers Gala,

      I work for a big bank (shhhh) so understand the markets fairly well (not well enough to make money from them).

      “see, it wasn’t so bad afterall” is almost a direct quote from my complaint to them a fortnight ago, regarding the weatherspoons chief brexiter article.

      Agree that UDI is a no go, mainly due to the points Vestas lists.

      As a long term lurker, who has only commented twice, it’s nice to get a response, now I feel more into the community.

    266. Breastplate says:

      @Vestas, I painted a scenario where I believed Scotland would be forced to use UDI.
      I’d be interested in your alternative action in said scenario.

    267. mike cassidy says:

      And having voted with the Tories against the SNP,

      Harvie reveals his neck is made of recycled copper and zinc.

      http://archive.is/V4yyS

    268. heedtracker says:

      Is that how a deficit works?

      (She didn’t really this is just a wee story, in case she reads this)

      Me not an economist, just another sucka tax payer watching red and blue tory gits running up massive debt on shite basically.

      So although not an economist I do have eye balls and every single histrionicalising UK.gov debt and deficit graph shows that under Crash GordO, UKOK borrowing rocketed up. And lets not visit Crash GordO’s PFI fraud on us all. Guilt markets probably couldn’t lend Crash Gordon any more so he went back and got Major’s PFI borrowing fraud. And then he went mental with that, UKOK style.

      Wild borrowing by Crash Gordo made him the City’s spivs darling. And above all else, Crash Gordo let the City do whatever it liked too. Then he borrowed ever more to save the City, because he’s so prudent.

      Only the poorest pay the actual cost of red and blue toryboy UK borrowing but life is cruel and Labour do want back in power again. The only chance they have though, is convincing the City they’re not going to trouble the City and keep on borrowing:-(

    269. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Keith fae Leith –

      Hoots mon!

    270. galamcennalath says:

      Ryanair boss Michael O’Leary ….

      “I have no faith in the politicians in London going on about how ‘the world will want to trade with us’. The world will want to screw you – that’s what happens in trade talks,”

      http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/ryanairs-michael-oleary-rubbishes-claims-of-favourable-postbrexit-trade-deals-35064240.html

    271. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      heedtracker says at 3:40 pm

      I always thought the debt was spent on projects, services etc. provided by their mates at grossly inflated rates.

      Their mates get rich and bung some back to the Councillor/MP in question whether in brown envelopes, future jobs (think Brown, Darling) or in guaranteed work think Bliar (no typo) on the speech circuit.

      The tax payer picks up the tab.

      Win Win UKOK style (We lose but then we don’t count in their world).

    272. Meg merriles says:

      It’s sad isn’t it.
      A lot of people think that the reputed £15bn black hole is actual money that will have to be paid back – like a bank overdraft or credit card bill, so how will we ever manage that without Westminster bailing us out? – The same Westminster that has made such a pigs ear of the oil finances and which will try and trash the renewables before we can prove their worth.
      These people don’t realise where the actual problem really lies – lies being the operative word! Keep us ignorant, in debt and afraid and they’ll keep us in the box!

      How much are the tories about to spend doing up the Houses of Parliament, how much are they spending on Hinckley Point and HS2? I’m tired of pooling my country’s assets south in return for sharing their debt – the true definition of being ‘indebted to the Union’.

      Does any government run a surplus?.. . Oh, yes, Norway!!!! How do they manage that?Obvious really, Westminster doesn’t run their finances!

    273. Proud Cybernat says:

      Every party in the Scottish Parliament pre-Brexit vote supported the UK Remain in the EU. In defiance of the overwhelming vote of the people of Scotland, Scotland’s Unionist Remainers are beginning to backslide on their support for the EU.

      So, while I have their ear, let it be known that the people of Scotland did not leave the Union, the Union left them.

    274. Macart says:

      @Vestas

      Well said

      @Keith fae Leith

      Welcome. The more the merrier. 🙂

    275. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      mike cassidy says at 4:09 pm

      NS should tell the Wee Syphilitic Member of the Scottish Parliament (aka Little Green Prick) in no uncertain terms:

      I’ll guarantee that to you if you guarantee ALL your parties votes in favour of APD reduction vote first.

      Greens true colours being shown (as previously predicted by many on WoS but Ken500 definitely on the money prior to Holyrood Elections in May).

      They are a UK Party with UK priorities using Scotland as a testing/proving ground for Green Policies.

    276. heedtracker says:

      Jockanese Wind Talker says:
      23 September, 2016 at 4:19 pm
      heedtracker says at 3:40 pm

      I always thought the debt was spent on projects, services etc. provided by their mates at grossly inflated rates.

      You’d think. Some does but now, the Treasury has to borrow to pay the interest on debt. FT covers it, UK.gov debt, really well but not out of political CiFering, there’s massive profit in giant government debt. Which makes big borrowers like Crash Gordo and Harrods towel folder Osborne, very popular in the City.

      At more finer economic detail, Crash was always trying to not raise any tax on the rich. Why would he, they’ll only kick him out. SO, Crash Gordo had to borrow vast amounts to cover his non tax on the rich policies. And who did socialist worker Crash Gordo borrow from? Filthy rich City spivs.

      It works for the City, bond and guilt markets love debt. Giant City pension funds have grown big and fat on the market and so what if lots of people in poverty pay the actual price when it starts to crumble a bit. The Treasury can always print more money, and it all goes to the rich. Its the UKOK way.

    277. heedtracker says:

      Hate crime drops in Scotland after Brexit vote, rancid The Graun piles in with

      http://archive.is/ojmI2

      Another day of anti Scotland propaganda farts along.

    278. Breastplate says:

      @Macart, as you seem to be in agreement with Vestas, could you perhaps give me your opinion on what we should do in the event of the scenario I proffered?

    279. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      It could be time for SNP to call the Yoons bluff (especially if the chance arises closer to May 2017).

      1. Let them (The Rainbow Yoon Coalition) have a victory in Parliament on a taxation issue

      2. SNP allow the Yoon press (printed and televised) to have an extended field day bigging up Ruth etc. for bloodying the SNP and being a “stronger opposition, GSTQ, etc. etc.”)

      3. EVERYONE NOW KNOWS WHO IT WAS WOT WON IT

      4. SNP then come out and state due to WM Austerity and the defeat of their progressive taxation proposal they now cannot afford Policy X (think free buses etc.)

      5. Revoke the privilege telling the electorate next time it will be your prescriptions for example

      6. Sit back and see how popular “the most popular Ruthfuhrer ever” is after her much publicised victory in holding the SG to account then 🙂

      Sounds harsh but maybe it is time to show the electorate exactly what austertity cuts the SNP has been protecting them from.

    280. galamcennalath says:

      Proud Cybernat says:

      “let it be known that the people of Scotland did not leave the Union, the Union left them.”

      Exactly. In multiple ways the Yoons have torn up the 2014 result and binned it.

      They begged, fearmongered, and deceived Scotland into staying in the Union. Then they walked away from it all, not least their promised continuation of EU membership.

      And in that context, it is astonishing that they come out with lines like, “there doesn’t need to be another Indy referendum”.

      They are the ones walking out on two Unions.

    281. Keith fae Leith says:

      Breastplate 3.09

      My guess would be, that enough work is done beforehand, either EU or UN as independant observers.

      Set it out so the world knows it’s a democratic process, WM won’t have a leg to stand on.

      Personally I’d rather the UN than EU, to avoid any accusations of them being biased towards us.

      I read a link on here, can’t remember which thread, which outlined the right to hold referendum being protected by the UNHRC, but I could be getting mixed up, so many quality posters of reference points.

    282. Smallaxe says:

      Keith fae Leith says:”I work for a big bank (shhhh) so understand the markets fairly well (not well enough to make money from them).”

      Welcome Keith,find out how to make money from them,then tell
      US!(shhhh) your secret will be safe with Wings(honest)

      Peace Love and Prosperous Wingers. 🙂

    283. Valerie says:

      Jockanese Wind Talker. 4.44

      I agree. Any electorate has short memory retention. They are not like us at all. We are political anoraks steeped in acquired fact and knowledge. My neighbours on both sides support independence, and they know I’m the SNP member that delivers all their literature, but they wouldn’t dream of chatting politics, despite the fact I wish they would!

      My neighbours are just too busy holding down their jobs, and worrying about their kids etc., and they just go and vote when they are told.

      Far too many take the freebies in Scotland for granted. Far too many think they come via Westminster.

      This is where I feel the SNP fall down in their communications strategy. I know they feel they have to be relentlessly positive, but they are crap at showing how much progress and good money management they have achieved.

      They have a good record of progress, and they fail to capitalise on this.

    284. ScottieDog says:

      Folks, regarding deficits and how they relate to the rest of the economy, here it is by accounting…
      external sector is just imports/exports.

      Govt sector + external sector + private sector = 0.

      If there is a surplus (+) in one of the variables there has to be a deficit (-) somewhere else.

      Now the Tories and blairites believe in running government surpluses. Using arbitrary numbers say they want to run a surplus of +2. Britain is a net importer – the external sector runs a surplus against us. So let’s say they run a trade surplus against us of +3.

      What that means is the private sector (you and me and domestic business) must run a deficit which matches the pluses of the external sector and govt sector.

      So
      Govt (+2) + external (+3) + private = 0. Therefore our deficit must be -5.

      The only way we can run this deficit is by borrowing from banks. The accounting above shows that govt surpluses in the UK are unachievable unless you wreck the economy – which they did in 2008 for this very reason. Private domestic credit alone stands at £1.5tn. The economy is another train wreck waiting to happen.

      A govt can really only run a surplus of there it runs a trade surplus against the rest of the world (exports exceed imports). The UK has just about run deficits constantly since WW2. Strangely there is only one part of the UK that has been capable of running a government surplus due to its large export base..
      Guess which part that is..?!

    285. Liz g says:

      Keith Far Leith @ 4.05
      Hi and welcome.
      Think it’s safe to say Yir lurking days are over.
      Have you ever been to any of the gathering’s?

    286. Breastplate says:

      Hi Keith, welcome to the sharp end of things, I hope to see many more posts from you. I tend not to comment much but do like to have a rant now and again.

      Back to business.
      I agree with what you are saying. We can make sure that everything that we do follows proper protocol but we can’t control what they are going to do although we can have an influence on it.
      That said, you didn’t actually address the concerns I raised except to suggest that hopefully this wouldn’t come to pass.

    287. Breastplate says:

      By “they” I mean Westminster

    288. manandboy says:

      Private debt – must be paid back.
      Government debt – doesnt have to be paid back.

      This might help,though it is for US readers.

      Private Debt vs. Government Debt

      The Great Recession of 2007-2009, which has been morphing into a Depression, has been different from most recessions of the post-World War II era. It has been what economists call a “balance-sheet” recession. Normally (at least since World War II), recessions were the result of the central bank (The Fed in the U.S.) raising interest rates because it thought the economy was growing too fast or that inflation was too high. This time, though, the triggers were a financial crisis brought on by a banking and financial sector that gorged itself on risky debt: subprime mortgages, derivatives, and bizarre financial products bought with borrowed money. The financial crisis and resulting recession then brought an end to the debt game for ordinary households. For thirty years or so, ordinary households, middle class folks, have struggled with declining real incomes and real wages. To maintain a middle class lifestyle, ordinary folks took on huge debts: mortgages, home equity loans, credit cards, and student loans. As deflation and unemployment hit in 2008 and the housing price bubble burst in 2007, the debt became unbearable, driving many to bankruptcy, foreclosure, and to drastically reduced spending*.

      With this backdrop, it’s no surprise that debt has become an emotionally-charged word laden with negative feelings for most people. People who are struggling with too much debt naturally are averse to the idea of debt. People who aren’t struggling with too much debt are resentful of those who do owe because they blame the debt-burdened for the recession (strange that the lender never gets blamed).

      Unfortunately, politicians and news media with a political agenda have tapped into these negative emotions about debt to push their agenda to end the modern social support services that government provides. They have done it by drawing false parallels between households and the government. Politicians from both parties have spent most of this year (and last) agitated about government deficits and debt. Even President Obama has done this in his July 3 radio address. But the government is not like a household. There are many reasons why financially, governments are not like households. In this context, I am speaking solely of sovereign, currency-issuing governments with floating exchange rates. This means Greece, Ireland, Portugal, Italy and the other Eurozone countries are excluded. I’m talking about the U.S., the U.K., Canada, Japan, Australia, Brazil, and others. There are many reasons why governments are not like households ranging from tax powers vs. wages to unlimited life. But I want to emphasize one in particular: governments are the sole monopoly issuer of their money. Households cannot issue money, only governments can.

      So what does this have to do with debt? It means government debt is not like private debt. Government debt need never be paid off. It can be rolled-over. As bonds become due, they are replaced with new bonds. Households can’t always do that. Governments cannot be “foreclosed” or “repossessed”. Households and their goods can be. Households and private firms can go bankrupt and default. Sovereign governments only default when they choose to do so. Historically the only known instance of a sovereign, floating currency issuing government defaulting was Japan in WWII, but that was deliberate. U.S. and British banks held much of the debt and they were at war. Some Republicans (example: Ron Paul) have recently been suggesting the U.S. default, but it’s still possible that grown-ups will prevail. Politicians and ideologically-driven economists and news media have whipped up a frenzy about government debt as being evil. But it isn’t. In fact, government debt is necessary to the functioning of a modern financial system. It provides a safe, interest-bearing financial asset.

      So if government debt isn’t evil or bad for us, how should we think about it? Government bonds are best thought of as currency that pays interest and can’t be used at the 7-11 store. So rather than thinking of government debt as just another form of debt like private mortgages, corporate debt, student loans, and credit cards, it’s better understood as just another form of money. It’s a holding pen for idle money.

      Much is made in the media about the fact that many “foreigners” hold US government bonds. Again, the media is trying to create a scary feeling by drawing a false analogy to private debt. If you’re a homeowner, the bank who holds your mortgage has some power over you, particularly if you don’t make regular payments. The media want us to feel like some how the “foreigners” have power over our government because they hold the debt. But that’s false. The foreigners can’t repossess or foreclose on the U.S. government, regardless of whether the government makes payments or not. Again, government debt is not like private debt. Private debt is the result of lenders making loans at interest with the goal of making a profit. But government bonds that are owned by “foreigners” are primarily owned by foreign central banks and banks. They are used as safe reserves, not for the primary purpose of making a profit. US government bonds are the modern banking world’s substitute for gold. Foreigners want US bonds because they want a safe, secure asset that earns more interest than stacks of idle paper currency. It’s not because primarily for profit-making. If they wanted profits, they would use the money to make loans. Instead they want security. That’s why they accept interest rates in the 1-3% range.

      When somebody tells you that government debt is bad and harmful and we must do everything we can to reduce debt, even if it means high unemployment, remember they have another agenda that they aren’t talking about. It’s scare tactics.

      * remember that drastically reduced spending might appear to help make the payments on debts, it also means that somebody else loses their job because their employer isn’t making a sale. That newly unemployed person now has debt problems too.

    289. Valerie says:

      UDI seems to come up regularly on here.

      Nicola is on the record stating she does not support it. She is a lawyer, as are many in the SG, and I believe it’s not on the table.

      I don’t think WM needs to do anything like trying to withdraw our Parliament. They successfully drain us at the moment, and we just thrash about.

      They are happy with that scenario.

    290. Craig P says:

      Capella says:

      So if plucky little Norway (Oil, Independent) enjoys a vast surplus, how come little Scotland (Oil, not Independent) is so poor?

      There’s a great video out there with Ivan McKee talking about Norway where his idea is to show Scotland as even more blessed.

      “Yes, we Norwegians have oil, but what else? If only we had major international banks, an instantly identifiable national brand, a big tourist industry, spoke English as our native language, had several universities in the world top 200, etc etc…”

    291. manandboy says:

      The UK Government has made no effort to hold on to the EU.
      At the same time, Westminster has been bursting a gut to hold onto Scotland.
      Independence is an absolute no-no to the Unionists.

      Westminster’s solution is to weaken or destroy the SNP.
      The method – to blacken the SNP name. To demonise them. To make the SNP into the bad guys and the Tories into the good guys.
      Every day, every time.
      It’s war!

    292. Breastplate says:

      Valerie,
      If Westminster suspended our parliament after we voted for independence in a referendum would UDI be welcomed or would it not?

    293. Macart says:

      @Breastplate

      Hypothetical scenarios are by their nature highly speculative. I reckon its best to deal with what we know. Precedents have been set in the holding of referendums and what we know is that Westminster cannot prevent any referendum in Scotland and would find it more than problematic internationally to either prevent one or refuse to follow through on the result (brexit means brexit). They are also bound to adhere to the UN charter chptr 1, article 1, pt 2 on a country’s right to self determination.

      In all likelihood Westminster will insist (as last outing) to participate rather than attempt to block or ignore. They have, as they see it, some control of the situation as an active participant.

      In the meantime I believe that any move to impose UDI whilst our population is either evenly split in opinion or worse, independence behind in popular opinion, would pose serious societal problems. I feel the electorate have to want to govern themselves for the project to work successfully and that in a popular sovereignty the ‘will of the people’ has to mean what it says on the tin.

      Its going to take the majority reading from the same page to make our future work for us IMO.

    294. Papadox says:

      Would rather not have anything to do with UDI, however the history of the godly USA & HMG does not bear scrutiny in their bullying, violence and destruction of small countries which did not want to do their bidding. They just wanted to mind their own business and look after their own people. But don’t try and steal my freedom.

    295. heedtracker says:

      Has anyone seen this years UKOK Civil Service awards nominees yet? Its going to be really exciting this Nrexit year, although probably not as exciting as these UKOK Civil Service awards, for winning the 2014 referendum and teaching the Scots a lesson we’ve clearly not really taken on board:D

      https://www.civilserviceworld.com/articles/news/hm-treasury-team-wins-special-civil-service-award%5D

      Cabinet Secretary and civil service head Sir Jeremy Heywood (centre) presented the award to team members (from right to left) Paul Doyle, Will MacFarlane, Shannon Cochrane, and Mario Pisani.

      Pisani said: “In the Treasury, everyone hates you. We don’t get thanks for anything. This is one occasion where we’ve worked with the rest of Whitehall.

      “We all had something in common, we’re trying to save the Union here, and it came so close. We just kept it by the skin of our teeth. I actually cried when the result came in. After 10 years in the civil service, my proudest moment is tonight and receiving this award.”

      He added: “As civil servants you don’t get involved in politics. For the first time in my life, suddenly we’re part of a political campaign. We were doing everything from the analysis, to the advertising, to the communications. I just felt a massive sense of being part of the operation. This being recognised [at the Civil Service Awards], makes me feel just incredibly proud.”

      Cochrane said: “we’ve learned that it is possible for civil servants to work on things that are inherently political and quite difficult, and you’re very close to the line of what is appropriate, but it’s possible to find your way through and to make a difference.”

      And Doyle added: “This award is not just for the Treasury, it’s for all the hard work that was done by all government departments on the Scotland agenda.

      “The reality was in all my experience of the civil service, I have never seen the civil service pull together in the way they did behind supporting the UK government in maintaining the United Kingdom. It was a very special event for all of us.”

      “As civil servants you don’t get involved in politics” is my favourite slice of UKOK bullshit, today at least.

    296. galamcennalath says:

      Europe minister Alan Duncan said …. “I’ve always thought that Boris’s wish was to lose by one (vote) so that he could be the heir apparent”, without having to deal with “clearing up all the mess”

      None of them expected it to be a Leave. Boris had a face like a skelpit erse on the morning after the vote! And Cameron realised he had just just holed his beloved UKOK below the water line! Only politicians who were happy were the mid-Atlanticist nutters.

      http://www.france24.com/en/20160923-uk-trigger-brexit-process-early-2017-boris-johnson

    297. Robert Louis says:

      galamcennalath at 446pm,

      You all make a good point. It is London which has made it impossible for the Scottish Government to countenance continuing with the English-Scottish union. To remain would damage Scotland. No sane Government would choose to stay in such a union.

      Circumstances have dramatically changed over the last few years, and it simply no longer beneficial for Scotland to stay.

      It is a different and I think now, rather appropriate way to position the arguments for independence.

    298. manandboy says:

      First it was ‘Brexit means Brexit’.

      Now, its ‘ we are going to leave the European Union, we are not leaving Europe’.

    299. Rock says:

      The Scottish government does not have a majority to call for a second independence referendum.

      The Greens are highly unlikely to back the SNP.

      The “independence supporting” The National, together with gullible independence supporters, succeeded in denying the SNP a majority by heavily promoting the Greens and Rise.

      Don’t buy The National and The Sunday Herald. Don’t be fooled by their lobbysts on this site.

      Don’t vote for The Greens. Don’t be fooled by Green activists pretending to be SNP activists.

    300. galamcennalath says:

      Robert Louis says:

      “It is a different and I think now, rather appropriate way to position the arguments for independence.”

      As well as a good positive (better thought through) case for Indy, I think it is obvious that Indyref2 should feature the now proven negative case for the Union.

      Last time it was the Yes side which was on the back foot always having to respond to the criticisms of Naesayers. Next time there has to be a frontal attack on everything WM has done since 2014. They cannot be allowed a rerun of their tactics, everything should be challenged with a, “and how exactly did that offer/threat/promise/lie/opinion work out since 2014?”

    301. Ken500 says:

      Debt repayments would be lower because of lower interest rates. Compared to previous debt. Negative interest rates. Inter country debts.

      Buying up other countries units of debt at low interest rates depending on security of loans. ie the risk element of getting the debt paid back. The collateral eg a vast amount of oil, whisky, wind power renewables. Surplus power, fuel and food products. The trade balance of exports. Eg Scotland.

      E.g Germany gets lower inter debt rates. The rate goes up depending on a balanced or surplus balance sheet. Scotland’s debt is a result of Westminster economic policies. It. Could be wiped out overnight and Scotland would be in surplus. Other countries – EU would recognise that just looking at the balance sheet. Westminster deliberately destroys the Scottish economy. It has done since 1928 and before. Westminster lies and keeps the evidence secret and illegally hidden under the Official Secrets Act. Illegal wars, banking fraud and tax evasion. Scotland out voted 10 to 1 has never been treated equally.

      The SNP Gov has done brilliantly with the Scottish economy. Vote SNP/SNP 2017.

    302. Liz g says:

      Ot sorry
      Any advice for single mum recently moved into Woman’s Aid scatter house.
      She didn’t think to used my/her family’s land line,understanably given the sheer amount she has to sort out.

      Phoned TV licencing for a refund for the property she left.
      Was due a refund of £36.
      By the time the issue was sorted out the CALL itself cost her
      £25.
      Anybody any ideas what if anything she could do?

      Although it was the phone company applying the charges it was negotiating the menu and getting the right person to deal with her situation,that generated them.

    303. bugsbunny says:

      I’ve just logged onto this site for the first time today and have only read a few posts. So can someone please help me here. I’ve been on various websites but to no avail. At lunchtime I overheard a group of men, plus one woman in business suits discussing Westminsters desire to borrow £billions of pounds from China, using North Sea Oil as Collateral. Please tell me these folk were wrong? They all appeared well dressed and posh.

      They wouldn’t dare would they? I would appreciate an answer one way or the other please as I’m beginning to think this was a practical joke. I can not find this information anywhere. This has got to be wrong?

    304. Breastplate says:

      Agreed Papadox.
      Macart, we all deal in hypotheticals wether we like it or not as you just did.
      A lot of people dismiss UDI out of hand. That’s fine in current circumstances but those circumstances will change making my scenario less likely or more likely.

      I hope as Papadox said and we don’t need to get involved in that but my cynicism of Westminster knows no bounds.

    305. Valerie says:

      @Breastplate

      If that happens, we have an irrefutable appeal internationally.

      However stupid and colonial WM is, I can’t see that happening.

    306. ScottieDog says:

      @manandboy
      Indeed,
      This video is worth watching. Can be a bit heavy but at around 6 mins he drops the bomb shell – bonds issuance isn’t actually a borrowing operation.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KRi9nF8BiA&feature=youtu.be

      As you allude to, the issuing state of a floating currency cannot run out of its own currency.

    307. Wullie says:

      Could the Scottish Government start the process of dissolving the union.
      We are equal partners this Union. ha ha
      We are not an occupied country. Ho Ho
      The SG really need to up their game and show some balls instead of getting punched in the face every day of the week.
      I am sick of being treated like shit and second class shit at that.
      Grief, the rest of the world must be rolling about pissing themselves laughing at us.

    308. Nana says:

      @bugsbunny

      I know the latest round of exploration licence selling has begun. I think the criminals in Westminster would not hesitate to sell everything before we get independence, very troubling but surely Nicola and the team are aware.

      https://twitter.com/tradasro/status/778012111477825536

      https://www.gov.uk/government/news/oga-launches-29th-offshore-licensing-round

    309. Breastplate says:

      Valerie, are you saying there are no circumstances whatsoever that you would use UDI?

    310. Breastplate says:

      Wullie, Yes you’re right. I believe that has been suggested as another route to independence. It may have been Robert Peffers but not sure.

    311. heedtracker says:

      bugsbunny says:
      23 September, 2016 at 6:49 pm
      I’ve just logged onto this site for the first time today and have only read a few posts. So can someone please help me here.

      Hello and welcome! Best advice is make your own mind up. Its not easy if you’re not a tory though. As we know, current tory BBC led UKOK propaganda is Brexit’s great, great for you, great for me, above all Brexit’s great for the whole of the UKOK economy.

      The ongoing BBC Brexit is great for the Brits campaign on its own, is an interesting display of just how right wing tory corrupt our media is. So forget about sterling falling through the floor, blame SNP for low oil price and Scots deficit blackhole, hate Jeremy Corbyn and the SNP are very very bad/don’t exist.

      Clearly its a bit more nuance either side of the border. The BBC Scotland creep show’s not quite sure yet how to use Corbyn with their relentless SNP monstering for example. So good luck:D

    312. heedtracker says:

      Ken500 says:
      23 September, 2016 at 6:39 pm
      Debt repayments would be lower because of lower interest rates. Compared to previous debt. Negative interest rates. Inter country debts

      One of the major drivers behind running up giant national debt is the economic history of inflation. In that, so what if your national debt is so big, inflation will either eat it away, or at least keep it under control. That’s what used to happen. But this has changed completely as we know, Special K:D

    313. Breeks says:

      Don’t want to inflame a dispute, and I’m also conscious of having said my last word on the subject, but isn’t discussion of a UDI actually the rational, constructive and informative constitutional debate that we should be having? That is certainly the spirit in which I am raising the point.

      Breastplate has flagged up a reasonable scenario, which is similar to my own, which presupposes a collapse in democratic process. What happens then?

      I could also make the familiar argument I’ve made before about whether it is the Westminster government which is the constitutional anomaly which reflects expediency as its master rather than jurisprudence.

      I respect many folks don’t like the concept, but in constitutional terms, there is a very credible argument that a Scottish UDI could make a compelling case that was very likely to secure international recognition. You seem to suppose, quite rightly I suppose, that Scottish independence would be treated as a new phenomenon, but surely there is a much stronger case to be made for the restoration of our ancient sovereignty to a previous condition which was properly recognised with legitimacy in law. Isn’t that the very argument we are making about our continuing membership in the EU? The ending of a bipartite treaty? I ask the question for the umpteenth time, from where will an Independent Scotland draw is sovereign authority? From historic precedence? Or mimicking Westminster?

      I’ve also made the point before that I respect the fact many would find the UDI path unacceptable, but is it wise to declare the option off limits for discussion? Wouldn’t it be better to take the sting out of divisive UDI conjecture now, rather than later when perhaps it is critical and tempers are already running high?

      I confess, I don’t understand the hostility towards discussing the matter. It isn’t a dirty secret, and we are not urban guerillas contemplating how best to legitimise a military coup.

    314. Nana says:

      O/T

      Derek Bateman talking with Tommy Sheppard

      Podcast: Tommy’s journey from Labour mainstream to SNP

      http://newsnet.scot/archive/podcast-tommys-journey-labour-mainstream-snp/

    315. Dr Jim says:

      Reporting shortbread tonight says Scotlands athletes and their respective associations have now become political and support Better Together GB

      I would respectfully say If you want your lifestyle funded by the generosity of a people it’s perhaps not the greatest idea to rubbish their politics before you ask for that funding

      I even wont even mention the financial support that Former First Minister Salmond and the Scottish Government put in to the Commonwealth Games while the UK Government continually de compared it with Englands wonderful Olympics and following the games the National press and BBC mostly ignored the fact the commonwealth Games actually existed at all as an event even though every country around the world lauded Scotlands games as the best and most entertaining ever

      When was the last time anybody remembers the press or BBC mention The Commonwealth Games? It’s always London Olympics they just skip Scotland out altogether

      Still, the main thing is as long as these very same athletes who were practically worshipped by Scotland for trying so hard in their respective disciplines get what they want in the way of funding from whomever is prepared to give it and sod the rest so they can achieve their main aim, the most important one, Team GB

      Good luck to them

      But my support will be like Michelle Mones Bras !!BUST!!

    316. Brian Powell says:

      Just a thought on the Union and the Ind Referendum. Some Unionists try the count everybody who didn’t vote Yes as a no. So the 55% becomes bigger, I know the Crazies maths.

      However it made me consider the vote and I thought it would be good to count the 1707 vote and the 2014 vote. So less than 1% of Scots voted for the Union in 1707, the rest of the people were rioting in the streets, meaning 99% voted to stay an Independent country. 2014 45% voted Yes and 55% No.

      These are not elections but on the constitutional future of Scotland, so these counts stand separate from all other votes.

      If we go with the simple vote: Yes is 99% + 45%= 144% accumulative for Yes.

      1% + 55%= 56% accumulative for No.

      Even using the Unionist jiggery-pokery maths on the 55%, it still gives a massive Yes vote for Independence.

      We know in 1707 less than 1% voted No, it’s in all the records, with even the names of those who voted.

      We won Independence, hands down.

    317. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      Nana & bugsbunny

      Let them sell the licences off cheap or in lieu of debt (think Hinkley Point).

      Come iScotland New Management means all existing contracts are null & void.

      Re: negotiate (I like the Norge we should have asked for more when getting 90% tax approach 🙂

    318. Meg merrilees says:

      Bugsbunny and Nana- disturbing news if Westminster is selling oil assets to China.. before Indy2. I wouldn’t put anything past them, after all, isn’t China helping to build HS2 and Hinckley Point and where will WM get the money to pay for that since they’ve already crashed scottish oil??
      (Do they ever wonder how Norway’s government seems to be in surplus?)

      China is already extracting 200,000 barrels a day from the North Sea and I believe it is currently buying up agricultural land ( wheat fields) in central France as they can’t grow enough to feed their own people and want to take train loads of the french wheat harvest to China.

      My last post didn’t show up but basically I’m tired of this ‘pooling and sharing’ within the UK. It’s a one way street.
      We pool our assets, they share their debt. Time to step off the merry-go-round.

    319. yesindyref2 says:

      @busbunny
      Did you have a YES badge on?

    320. tartanarse says:

      Breeks

      I too don’t understand what’s wrong with UDI. The Union was formed because Scots parliament decided to go for it regardless of public opinion.

      If we are truly in an equal union then using the same procedure Scotland could simply declare the union over because the government of Scotland decided it so.

      Europe wouldn’t give a shit how Scotland gained independence. It’d be no one else’s businesses.

    321. Liz g says:

      Jockanes Wind Talker @ 8.06
      That’s jist the problem I don’t think the contracts are null an void, Scotland and her people just inherits the.
      To renage on the would damage our international relations.

    322. Liz g says:

      Damm both those THEs should read them

    323. call me dave says:

      First Minister Nicola Sturgeon sets out three questions ahead of Brexit talks

      http://archive.is/OFeTj

    324. Croompenstein says:

      Heartbreaking Stu, if Scotland only had a fraction of the confidence and arrogance of England we’d have been independent many many years ago.. 🙁

    325. bugsbunny says:

      yesindyref2,

      Although I have numerous badges, at this particular time and place, I was wearing nothing. And I was dining by myself, something I seldom do, and was not talking to anyone apart from taking my order and was reading no paper. I didn’t know them from Adam. If anyone else was wearing any Yes/SNP/Scottish badges, I didn’t see them. They weren’t even being party political, it just seemed as if they were talking about the price of cheese. They just said it in passing, went into some details about it for two or so minutes, then started talking about an up and coming engagement party, at which point I stopped listening.

    326. yesindyref2 says:

      @bugsbunny
      It just seemed like a p take.

      Government borrowing doesn’t cpme with collateral as far as I know, it just borrows – we#re the collateral. At the moment too, government borrowing is dirt cheap, central banks are desperate to get any return, rather than pay to borrow. Ireland just got a 50 year 1.2 billion euro loan, for the princely amount of 0.33& interest pa.

      Either that or you were privileged to see Average and his pals, they’re pretty ignorant!

    327. scotspine says:

      UDI

    328. Clootie says:

      Rock…we heard you the first fifty times…and still don’t agree with you.
      Once again everybody is out of step with you.

    329. defo says:

      UDI = 50% + 1
      Anything less has no democratic legitimacy, and once you start down that rabbit hole…

      We will win. Legit likes, by a margin of 59-41 ish

      Including allowing for the postal vote 😉

    330. Fireproofjim says:

      Brian Powell @7.56
      You are right. Less than 1% voted for the Union in 1707. Potted history coming up.
      People sometimes say Scotland was bankrupt because of the Darien Scheme failure, but this is nonsense. A few hundred foolish aristocratics lost a fortune investing in the scheme and they may have been bankrupt, but 99% of Scots continued as before.
      England, seeing an opportunity, bribed the aristocrats (who had the only votes in Parliament) with what they called the Equivalent. This was the same amount of money which they had lost in the Scheme.
      In return the Parliament gave up Scotland’s independence, while the people rioted in the Edinburgh streets in protest. The Act of Union was signed hurriedly in a basement in the Canongate and smuggled out of the city.
      Robert Burns rightly called the signatories a “Parcel of Rogues”, and their descendents are still with us, some with the same titles and privileges.

    331. bugsbunny says:

      yesindyref2,

      Ok, I’ll just take your word on it. I know next to sod all about economics, just passing on what I heard. And you are right to mention ignorant people. But what is worse is people with an agenda. I remember hearing in my Chemistry and especially history class at school, (both teachers had the same surname, Alexander – not related), talking about how Scotland didn’t have the “right” sort of oil. I was booed for suggesting to the history teacher by the class that this was one of the stupidest things I have ever heard. I think not long after I left school, that the History Teacher, Gerald Alexander, became a Labour Councillor for New Cumnock? Liars come in all shapes and sizes, but I have always meet the same kind of person throughout my life who was both a Labour member and activist state the following:

      1. Scotland has the wrng oil.

      2. Because of the Angle of the Border with Berwick, up to 80% of north Sea oil and gas belong to England.

      3. We are to stupid to rule ourselves.

      4. Depending on who they are talking to we’re either a potential Nation of Orangemen ready to enslave the Catholic Population, or IRA stodges ready to blow the Kirk and all Protestant Royalists to kingdom come.

      I’m just bloody sick of all this f**cking shite.

    332. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      Liz g says at 8:25 pm

      Liz I know what your saying but it is the same as Westminster having already sold the licences to frac Scotland.

      What they gonna do?

      Seriously??

      It is simple they can renegotiate or f**K off.

      It is Scotland’s oil to be invested in Scotland’s future.

      If they don’t want to play a part in our future they can f**k off regardless of nationality US, UAE, Canadian, Chinese, rUK.

      We’ll pay the legal fees in oil & gas 🙂

    333. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @bugsbunny –

      ‘I’m just bloody sick of all this f**cking shite.’

      You’re not alone!

      Some days it’s well-nigh unbearable.

      We need a ‘Great Scottish Wake-Up’ pronto.

    334. Valerie says:

      @bugsbunny

      This is quite a good review of the large oil holdings of the Chinese in North Sea oil. They were actively buying in 2012. Just from Google, there are also tax treaties in place with China under Osborne.

      Also makes more sense why May had to capitulate on Hinckley. Looks like UK is wound up tightly with China.

      http://archive.is/9Ev4I

    335. bugsbunny says:

      That statement number 1. that those teachers and others kept saying should read, Scotland has the “wrong” oil, not wrng. lol.

      I wish my bloody credit card was 0.33% interest.

    336. Tinto Chiel says:

      “I confess, I don’t understand the hostility towards discussing the matter.”

      There’s no hostility to UDI, Breeks. It’s just not a good idea when we are on the verge of democratic victory anyway. Until we are blatantly denied our independence by violent or illegal means, it’s a non-starter.

      If you think the EU isn’t a stickler for due process then I think you will have a rude awakening.

      I am very aware of how our independence was sold out from under our feet in 1707 by a tiny percentage of Massey Fergusons but that won’t cut it as an argument with the rest of Europe in the 21st century.

      Patience is hard but we need to let Maggie May screw it up royally (as she will) and watch it all far apart when the EU extract revenge.

      Then the soft Noes will move to our side and it’s endgame.

      UDI is a last resort. I can’t really say anything else on the matter.

      *Phew! says Scotland*

    337. Fireproofjim says:

      An independent Scotland should take a leaf out of Norway’s book and take share in all new oil fields by setting up a national “Scotoil”. Actually owning all the existing fields does not matter much provided that hard-headed oil industry experts are in charge of taxing them so that fairness is maintained.
      Currently it looks as though the oil companies are running rings around the Westminster Treasury. Norway seems to get about twice as much tax per barrel as the UK.

    338. scottieDog says:

      Govt issue of bonds is seen as borrowing but it’s really a misrepresentation in the case of a govt issuing it’s own currency…
      For a quick explanation see…

      http://moslereconomics.com/mandatory-readings/innocent-frauds/

      He should know. He was a bond dealer.

    339. Legerwood says:

      China and the North Sea

      From the Daily Mail 5 days ago:

      “” A new row over Chinese investment broke out last night after it emerged that one of the country’s firms is bidding to take control of half of Britain’s gas pipelines.
      State-owned operator China Gas has joined with Shanghai-based investment firm Fosun to bid for a majority stake in the National Grid’s £11 billion gas distribution business.
      It operates four gas distribution pipelines that supply an estimated 11 million homes and businesses in the Midlands, the North West, eastern England and north London. The Chinese consortium is one of three trying to buy a controlling stake.””

      I think that Chinese firms have been buying up North Sea assets for a number of years and now have around an 8% stake in UK oil production.

      The gas pipelines are just their latest purchase – if it goes ahead.

    340. Fireproofjim says:

      Scotland’s oil is anything but “the wrong sort”.
      Brent crude is the industry standard for “sweet crude”. That is to say it is very low sulphur and is easier to refine and therefore more profitable than most crude oils.
      If you are interested the other standard crude is “West Texas”.
      Brent crude is always a couple of dollars per barrel more valuable than West Texas.
      It is bloody good stuff!

    341. ronnie anderson says:

      @ Bugsbunny welcome to the ite . I think the joke at th time of the 1st Oil to come onshore was Its the wrang Oil even no use for Singer Sewing machines & its been the wrang Oil sold for forty odd years.

      I said some time ago that the Scottish Gov / Snp should put out a warning that all exploration licences would be subject to re negotiation on Independence , that would stop Westminster selling our Oil well into the future or making deals to service they’r depts.

    342. yesindyref2 says:

      @bugsbunny
      As Valerie says, there’s a lot of trading going on in shares of oil companies, investores moving out, others moving in. The Chinese have indeed been actively buying up shares recently, and the companies they’re investing in have blocks of licences allocated, so that’s probably what they mean.

      I think the UK Government don’t auction licences like they used to, they sell them to whatever bidder is most likely to actually exploit the oil, rather than just sit on it. They changed that back in the 90s I think. I did research it about three years back, but since it seemed pukka enough from our point of view, I then forgot how exactly it worked, but it seemed OK. I think there’s usually some sort of time limit like 5 years, then companies have to renew – something like that.

    343. Valerie says:

      Taken from Pinsent Masons, Lawyers, end of 2015.

      I didn’t know this either, but the Chinese have bought large pieces of realty all through London.
      ———————

      Between 2014 and 2025, a total of £105 billion of Chinese money will flow into UK infrastructure and real estate investments, including a total of £43.5 billion into energy infrastructure, £19 billion into transport and other infrastructure, and £36 billion into real estate.

      Joint ventures and strategic partnerships with China’s massive construction and engineering corporations to play a catalytic role to make this reality, transforming UK construction sector
      UK ranks third globally, out of 144 countries, in the Pinsent Masons and Cebr Infrastructure Investment Attractiveness Index
      Chronic underinvestment has created an infrastructure need close to £500 billion in the UK, more than the £383 billion of projects set out in the UK’s National Infrastructure Plan.
      UK’s strained public finances and pressured household incomes create problem of affordability for infrastructure
      China’s economy to become world’s largest, approaching $30 trillion by 2030
      Chinese savings to reach $12 trillion in coming decade, representing more than 30% of global savings
      China to increasingly seek investments in advanced, innovative economies

    344. defo says:

      Once they realised that ‘managed decline’ was all that was left for the Empire, it quickly turned into a firesale.
      Neo ‘every man for themselves, and the deil take the hindmost’ Liberalism.
      Won the wars, lost the Empire.
      Result !

    345. heedtracker says:

      Rancid The Graun says vote new New Lab after tomorrow. One quick Scots mention, “Nationalism in Scotland, Brexit anger in neglected parts of England, and the collapse of the Liberal Democrats all shape Labour’s problems.” Its that simple. No mention of Holyrood Barbie Kez either.

      http://archive.is/pVoBj

    346. Valerie says:

      If only we had proper investigative journalists or reporters asking the question.

      How, with the bounty of North Sea Oil, the UKs infrastructure needs £500billion investment?

      There is a huge issue now, with the UK so beholden to Chinese investment, as to what kind of influence and lobbying politicians are subjected to.

      Taking back control, you Brexiteers.

    347. @ScottieDog

      watched the seminar from Randall Wray,

      so many assumed theories of economics turned on their head,

      heard Randall mention John Maynard Keynes crediting a man called Innes with being the first to write about a new way of seeing what money actually is,

      A.Mitchell Innes was born in Edinburgh,

      this is his pamphlet,

      http://tinyurl.com/zmps9x5

    348. crazycat says:

      @ bugsbunny

      You were taught History by Gerald Alexander? Bad luck!

      I met him a number of times in his capacity as a councillor and still see him occasionally shopping in Tesco in Auchinleck. He’s looking the worse for wear these days.

      @ All: pedant alert

      bugsbunny is not a new contributor to this site – though he is of course welcome! – when he said he “logged on for the first time today” he didn’t mean today is his first visit, he meant this particular log-in was his first for today – he’s been commenting here for years.

    349. Liz g says:

      Jockanes Wind Talker @ 9.28
      Hey my first reaction too,my friend.
      But and it’s a big but……
      We as a Country and for an indeterminate length of time,legitimised Westminster’s right to make those deal’s.
      So I am afraid that they are indeed leagal.
      Now that scenario being achieved by fair means or foul,for the purposes of our debate is neither here nor there,I should think.

      As I have said it’s my understanding that at the point of our Independence we inherit any and all deals/land & property titles as they stand.
      IMHO for us to insist that they are invalid as they are not in Scotland’s specific interests or compatible with how Scotland is now to be governed is a really bad idea, and for four reasons.

      Firstly we need to be seen to honour our commitments no matter how lowly obtained.

      Secondly we are not trying to create Fort Scotland.

      Thirdly
      The exposure of what deal’s were done that we are left to manage after the books are open should be not only confirmation that Independence was indeed the correct choice.
      But also a wake up call to our electorate to pay attention to what their government is morphing into.
      I would like a you will never do that to me again stance.

      Lastly
      Ownership of something is important,importent most importantly to our electorate.
      The Deed to a house,a bit of land,title to a car,papers that say you’re mutt isn’t a mutt ect …you get what I mean.
      To set ownership of an Oil Well aside in the national intrest is a bit of a slippery slope don’t you think?

      Now having said that the only redress, I can see, is not corporations takin us to court to make us comply,but rather us uncovering evedienc that Westminster was indeed asset striping us and therefore rendering any deal demonstrably made to those ends void.
      In that case it is not Our international reputation on the line but Westminster’s.

      While you don’t need to agree with me my friend (ofcourse you don’t) I do hope you see what I am saying this far cause I’ve ranted on at you long enough.

    350. Smallaxe says:

      bugsbunny:

      I may be wrong,it wouldn’t be the first time!but I have been
      Watching your posts and reply posts back to yourself.

      Maybe you are too polite to mention to people who are welcoming you to the site,but would I be correct in saying that you used to post on here regularly,Stephen!

      Just in case anyone gets the wrong idea Stephen, I am not outing you as a troll,just as someone who used to contribute
      quite regularly here,if so,welcome back to the fold my friend.

      Peace Always

      I apologise in advance if I am wrong.

    351. bugsbunny says:

      To Crazycat and Spigeon
      mallaxe, both correct, but I can’t remember replying to myself? lol. and my name is Stephen.

      Crazycat, Gerald was my History Teacher at Doon Academy. He always wore a three piece suit, along with dark shades and black leather gloves. Him and his Chemistry counterpart couldn’t stand each other and there was no love lost between him and the P.E. teacher Roger Stewart, a.k.a “Wee Roger”. Gerald was a marmite teacher mostly. I was ok with him at the beginning, but as I got older I wished I had taken Geography instead with Mr Ross, a.k.a. “Pigeon”. lol. Haven’t been in the Railway Hotel for a meal in years.

    352. bugsbunny says:

      That should read Crazycat and Smallaxe not Spigeon mallaxe. My typings terrible of late.

    353. Smallaxe says:

      bugsbunny:

      I was very clumsy with my previous post, I did not mean that
      you were replying to yourself, I meant other people replying
      back to you. In any case it’s good to see you back home.

      Peace Love and what’s up doc? 🙂

    354. bugsbunny says:

      Thank you Smallaxe. I reralised early on when people were saying welcome to the site that I made a boo boo and not explained myself properly. But I was not, as you say, too polite to correct them but embarrassed. Or as Ma Broon would say, “black affronted”. I usually just post light/irrelevant stuff. I prefer to read all the experts here. I think a couple of contributors thought I was a troll when I started cursing and swearing about George Foulkes. Having meet the ignorant twat away back in 1992 whilst canvassing, well let’s say, he was the most foul mouthed entitled twat you will ever meet. And he smelled of booze and piss. This embarrassment was never elected out of office by the good folks of Cumnock and Doon Valley, usually getting at least two thirds of the vote. Thank God those days are history.

    355. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @bugsbunny –

      🙂

      Your testimony regarding The Thirsty Lord made me laugh aloud.

      ‘I stank of booze and pish back in ninety-two, and heaven knows I’m miserable now…’

      (I might be onto something here…)

    356. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      Liz g says at 10:43 pm

      “While you don’t need to agree with me my friend (of course you don’t) I do hope you see what I am saying this far cause I’ve ranted on at you long enough.”

      I don’t think you’ve been ranting at me Liz.

      What makes you think I don’t agree with you?

      How long have we “legitimised Westminster’s right to make those deal’s?”

      Scotland had a Westminster Government that Scotland hasn’t voted for for years making decisions in their best interests not Scotland’s.

      If we inherit “any and all deals/land & property titles as they stand” our elected representatives should look at these deals in great detail.

      It is all about getting the correct value rather than allowing asset stripping as a tax dodge.

      It is about holding corporations accountable.

      What’s your opinion of the new West of Scotland surveys?

      Can Westminster find out what’s there and sell the rights to their mates prior to independence, and if so does that mean an iScot Govt. can’t renegotiate these licence awards prior to/or after exploratory drilling??

    357. bugsbunny says:

      Ian Brotherhood,

      My absolute loathing of this man dates back to 1992 when the drunken cunt laughed out loud as his young sidekick called a Down Syndrome boy a “Mongol”.

      And Labour always uses the Politically Correct Stick on their opponents when it suits them.

      Shower of fucking hypocrites.

    358. Smallaxe says:

      bugsbunny says:

      . “I usually just post light/irrelevant stuff.”

      I never ever do that bugsbunny,take a look back at my interesting and informative communications this very morning.

      1/6:41am
      2/6:47am
      3/7:02am
      4/7:09am

      I take things very seriously as you will see!

      Peace Love and pertinent posting.

      I await your admiration of my perspicaciousness.

    359. Hamish100 says:

      Bugs

      Pity you lost me after the first profanity.Do you know spanner perchance?

    360. Nana says:

      Re the discussion on legally challenging Westminster theft/underhand dealings after Scottish indy. Does anyone recall before the vote in 2014 reading or hearing [perhaps during a debate] something about this very subject. I think it was to do with the west of Shetland territory annexation? and something is niggling my brain about a statement made by Carney re currency union & Scottish oil,

      Did a search and can not find anything relevant. Only thing I came across was the maritime change by Blair and Dewar the night before our parliament reconvened.

      For any new visitors to the site this is just one of many reasons the labour party in Scotland should be buried.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfbfldSrJ-0

      Just think what else have they done.

      Good night all, you might like this

      https://twitter.com/Scientists4EU/status/779409445562580992?lang=en-gb

    361. bugsbunny says:

      Hamish100says,

      “Pity you lost me after the first profanity. Do you know spanner perchance?”

      FFS here we go again. Go and do one pal. A lot of folk swear on here. Who the hell are you anyways? The swear Nazi? GTFYC.

    362. bugsbunny says:

      Or maybe Hamish you think that calling disabled people names a bit of a laugh you sad pathetic git. FO. I hate Foulkes and I hate twats like you. FFS even the good Reverend swears occasionally. GTF you Unionist Troll.

    363. StevieMcB says:

      Makes your heart bleed when you imagine what they will squander this find on if we dont get control of our own country.
      http://www.proactiveinvestors.co.uk/companies/news/163789/hurricane-energys-lancaster-discovery-is-a-game-changer-for-the-uk-oil-industry-163789.html

    364. bugsbunny says:

      Oh, and btw Hamish. I joined the SNP/YSN as a young boy many years ago receiving my welcome pack on 1st May 1987. That’s nearly 30 years as a member. How long have you been a member for? And by that I don’t mean Labour/Tory/Liberal.

    365. Smallaxe says:

      Nana:

      Goodnight,I shall await trembling with barely suppressed anticipation and excitement for your excellent posts in the morrow informing me of astounding actualities of which I am at this juncture completely unaware of.

      Peace Love and Pleasant Dreams xx

    366. bugsbunny says:

      Up to a few years ago I even had the old 1987 SNP Manifesto in black and white. I’ll tell you how old this was. It was signed by Gordon Wilson and Winnie Ewing, saying, “It makes no more sense to be a member of the European Union, (EEC) than it does the British Union.

      That’s how long I’ve been a member. The SNP was Anti EEC as it was then. Unless my mind is playing tricks just 18 months later and a bare month or so before Jim Sillars won the Govan By Election, the SNP became Pro EEC, (as it was then).

    367. manandboy says:

      Mrs May is trying to fake the consequences of Brexit. Here’s a taste of the truth. (MG Cars is going abroad)

      Analysis: Professor David Bailey of Aston University

      I think MG through Shanghai Automotive’s owner have been kind of hanging on there.
      They’ve had a flawed business model in that it was importing virtually the entire car for Longbridge with some very limited assembly, about 40 to 50 workers.
      I think what has really scuppered them is the Brexit vote.
      They had fundamental business problems in that they were not selling as many cars as they hoped and they had the big import costs of components.
      Post Brexit though, the costs of import are much more expensive so costs are higher and there is uncertainty about the future on the trading relationships in Europe.
      What they had hoped to do was use the UK as a launch pad for selling into Europe. If – big if – we are no longer part of the single market what is the point of investing there?

    368. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      I see Lord O’Neill has pulled the pin and binned his position.

      Watch this space:

      Those with half a brain will sack it early so they can claim they saw the whole Brexit clusterf**k early and retain their professional competence when UK Govt. incompetence is laid bare.
      .
      No doubt to get advisory positions with business or banking.

    369. Flying Scotsman says:

      Just between you and me……women for indy can go fuck themselves!

      ……and there’s not many women I could say that about.

    370. Smallaxe says:

      I magnanimously extend the hand of welcome and bonhomie to a
      prodigal member of the esteemed society of Wingers,only to be left immensely saddened by his indifference to my gallant gesture.Pesky Wabbit!

      Peace Love and Go Ask Alice.

    371. bugsbunny says:

      Sorry Smallaxe, I just got so concentrated replying to some twat calling me friend of spanner.

      It could be worse, he could have called me a friend of Dorothy.

      I was not being indifferent Smallaxe.

      Thank you for your warm welcome.

      Say hi to Alice.

      Sweet dreams and nighty night.

      Stephen.

    372. Smallaxe says:

      Flying Scotsman:

      I’m intrigued,please satisfy my innate curiosity.

      Peace Love and Inquisitiveness. 🙂

    373. Smallaxe says:

      Bugs:

      Don’t let the Mary Whitehouse appreciation society get you down.Good to see you back.Goodnight my friend.

      Peace Always

    374. liz g says:

      Jockanes Wind Talker @ 12.01
      While every point you made about Westminster’s legitimacy is correct,it is , I, think only correct up to and until 18 September 2014.
      However???…. that… result was achieved it is sadly the result.

      Therefore.
      My opinion and please understand it is just an opinion.
      Any deal / arrangement made while Scotland’s Constutional position is in doubt would be questionable only if it can be demonstrated, that a reasonable person could see that this particular deal is clearly not what a generic Government would agree to, if it was indeed acting on behalf of the people (and more importantly the corporate interests )it represents, but rather an arrangement demonstrably designed to disadvantage a potential competitor.,.(yes I don’t like it but do think it is where we have come to)….

      I have no knowledge of the particular issue you asked about so can’t comment… but …you previously alluded to the selling off,of licence’s to frack…..so I hope an allegory will suffice.

      And so late at night my friend you will allow my long held hope’s for my country rather than my pragmatism towards my country a little wriggle room.

      Any and all “Deal’s” made between the initiation of Indy Ref 1 &2 are a bit buyer’s beware.
      As in if you didn’t know Scotland will go.. you should have.

      As for the Fracking stuff you mentioned that very much fall’s under that heading.
      If those companies chose to buy a licence to Frack from Westminster they should have known that Holyrood could put the kibosh on it.
      That’s an issue for Westminster and their buyer’s.
      Again this is one of those issues where our international reputation is not harmed.
      If .. sorry when we get Indy….. I don’t believe any company will get to Frack.
      The reason being that when the Government is brought within Slapping distance ……. the people get what they want.

      The whole point of Independence IMHO.

      If a Fracking licence has been brought from Westminster and the Company don’t get to use it then that as far as I am concerned is their problem.
      But there is a bundle of stuff that is now, and has been sold off and that as I have already said will be ours and ours to deal with.
      Hopefully calmly and honourably,so as to keep our international reputation intact.

      As I said at this hour,my hope’s for my country and my understanding of the way the world works I merge.

      Smallaxe where are you????…!!!!

      Will take a look at the issues you mentioned at a later time,my friend,and no doubt have something to say.

      Hope you are not dreading it…..x

    375. bugsbunny says:

      Smallaxe, Just read your entries, lol. I see what you mean. I’m sure you can go deep and intellectual if need be. Me on the other hand?…..

      Maybe Britain’s Nuclear Devices should be in no better hands than Kezia Dugdale’s? After all if she can’t press a wee red button right under her nose?……Maybe she was texting at the time?….along the lines of “Great Mum, Shepards Pie followed by Apple Crumble and Custard will be fandabbedozzie”

      Bless her little cotton socks. lol.

      Stephen.

    376. Smallaxe says:

      Bugs:

      We are on here for a very important reason,but ffs Whit’s happened tae the famed Scottish since of humour,sometimes we need to lighten up a bit.

      Peace Always

    377. Smallaxe says:

      6:49 bugs:

      When you first posted, I heard the very same thing mentioned
      about our possessions being used for Collateral,it’s on this
      thread earlier,put there by myself. I don’t think it’s coincidental if we’ve both heard this!

      Peace Always

    378. Flying Scotsman says:

      @Smallaxe
      Check out their twitter m8.
      Utterly appalled at the double standards.

    379. Smallaxe says:

      Hi liz:

      Still here,just watching the wheels go round,bored out of my
      skull with this chest infection,listening to some slow Blues
      music and quietening my frustrated soul.How are you,insomnia
      rules?

    380. Smallaxe says:

      Scotsman:

      Will do thanks.

      Peace Always

    381. yesindyref2 says:

      @niggle
      Oh good grief, you are a sexist, have no sense of humour, are a misognyist, unionist plant, dumb btard, do not exist, but with not a lot happening at the moment and we’re all getting bored bored bored and highly p’ed off because it’s frustrating and rather than like vultures sitting on a wall waiting for someone to die we want to just go off and kill someone you’re multiplying oh niggle and there are a lot of you.

      And if anyone didn’t understand that, then “niggle” off !!!!!!!

    382. bugsbunny says:

      Whose Niggel? And whose twitter has double standards?

      Stephen.

    383. yesindyref2 says:

      LOL. music always, always has the answer:

      “I read the news today, oh boy
      4,000 boring articles about Corbyn again
      And though the articles were rather small
      They had to read them all
      Now they know how many Corbies it takes to fill the Albert Hall”

      Yawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwnnnnnnnnnnnn

    384. yesindyref2 says:

      @bugsbunny
      Someone on womenforindy made a misogynist joke about men and it created a storm in a D-cup.

      Oh good grief I shouldn’t have said that, now I’ve done it 🙁

      Time for a cuppa!

    385. Smallaxe says:

      Am starting tae git a wee bit puggled,it’s twistin ma melon man.let me see,Corbie,aye,think a know im,wis he a big tall wee short thin fat fella wi a mishave stashed aff an the knees
      hingin oot the erse o’ his troosers aye him and me went tae
      diffrent skools the gither,he finished up sellin briquetts in the calton.

      Peeves n’ jam ur sumphin

    386. Liz g says:

      Smallaxe @ 2.43
      Hi Hun
      Glad you’re here with us night owl’s.

      Just let the music take you,and let it sooth you’re soul.
      But just for a little while,cause we need you to reach our goal.

      Love to you and Mrs Smallaxe….X

    387. Smallaxe says:

      liz Sweetheart,Ive just taken 60mg morphine sulfate,two temazapam,one ampicillin and my hydroxycarbomide chemo,Im rattling with prescription medications maybe I’ll get an hour’s sleep,see you in the morning.

      Peace Always ALLWAYS xx

    388. Liz g says:

      Smallaxe
      Sweet dreams… Hun….X

    389. Smallaxe says:

      .Liz g:
      Good morning liz, I hope you managed to get some sleep as well
      it can be a long lonely night if you didn’t.We did not manage to get much of a chance to talk last night,you were deep in conversation with Japanese wind talker.

      That’s a great name,Ive always wondered about it.Wind talkers
      Were used during the 2nd WW to confuse the enemy but they were
      usually North American tribesmen, I forget which tribe.

      Japanese wind talker now that’s a conundrum.The only wind I know of in Japan is Kamikaze meaning”divine wind” so called
      because it stopped the fleet of Kublai Khan from reaching Japanese shores back in the day. I forget which century it was
      but the wind saved Japan from invasion.Then there was the Kamikaze pilots during the 2ndWW that flew their planes into
      enemy ships in suicide missions.

      I wonder which one our JWT has fashioned themselves from. I must ask.

      Anyway another day another dollar or Euro,Yen,beads or whatever.

      Peace Always

    390. Smallaxe says:

      Good morning Nana:

      I’ve got you all to myself this morning,goody.

      By the way,you apologised to me yesterday morning at 9;23 I hope that you got my answer at 10:55 if not,please look.

      You really couldn’t have timed it better this morning, I had just sat down with my coffee.Thank you xx

      Peace Always

    391. bugsbunny says:

      Hi Smallaxe,

      Good morning to all,

      Kublia Khan was 13th Century born the same year as the Magna Carter and died the same year as the Auld Alliance was first signed; 1215 to 1295 I think.

      The tribe you were thinking of is the Navajo.

      Pee, blood,s jag, porridge, boiled eggs buttered soldiers, meds and tea next.

      Stephen.

    392. Valerie says:

      @Liz g. 2.05am

      You are correct on fracking licences. They were sold by DECC, as speculative, nothing guaranteed, and the frackers are fully aware of that.

      They can, as has already happened, sell them on to anyone else.

      Exactly the same happens with selling land. You have to apply for planning permission if you want to build a house. A plot of land with attached planning permission for say a 4 bed house is more valuable, than a plot without.

      The price of acquisition of fracking licences is well worth the punt obviously, but they can sit on them for decades hoping for a change in govt/law/attitudes.

    393. gus1940 says:

      On the subject of licenses not only have Fracking Licenses been sold by WM but also the licenses for Exploration and Extraction in respect of all the North Sea Oil and Gas resources dating back to the 60s.

      Naturally as one would expect every last penny realised from these sales went straight to HM Treasury at WM.

      When (not if) we gain our Independence from the jackboot of our colonial masters is it not the case that iScotland should be entitled to a full refund from WM of every penny realised from the sale of said licenses at today’s prices i.e. adjusted for inflation plus interest.

    394. Fred says:

      @ Boris, thanks for that but you omitted Brian Wilson starring as Mrs Mac in Take the High Road!

    395. louis.b.argyll says:

      Maybe many ‘no-thinkers’ (no-voters)
      think that ‘we’ (Scotland) has been fully sold down the river.
      Fearing that independence will make matters worse, they’d rather let the Tories take us further up shit-creek knowing there’s profit selling paddles.

    396. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      Smallaxe, Jockanese not Japanese but yes a play on words.

      Taken from the code talkers not the kamikazes.

    397. gus1940 says:

      Over the last few months the subject of UDI has kept coming up.

      I would contend that it couldn’t be made to work and would be a disaster.

      The main problem would be the question of how the Independent Government would collect taxes.

      In this day and age virtually all taxation levied is collected via computer systems all of which hardware, software and management thereof is under the ultimate control of HM Treasury at WM – the main exception being Council Tax.

      How would the UDI Scottish Government gain acces to said systems in the face of what would undoubtedly be a hostile RUK Government.

      It would take years and cost a fortune for the UDI Govt. to develop their own equivalent computer systems.

      Even in the unlikely event of the RUK Govt.taking a benevolent attitude and allowing the UDI Govt. to use their systems the following frther questions which would really put the kibosh on UDI would raise their heads.

      How could they persuade without the recruitment of a massive heavy mob:-
      Businesses to forward PAYE, NI, VAT and Corporation Tax payments to the relevant Scottish Govt.Depts. and not to HM Treasury.
      Individuals to do the same with their Personal Tax returns self assessed or not.

      The above is just for starters but makes it obvious that UDI would be a disaster.

    398. Smallaxe says:

      bugsbunny:

      Good morning my friend,please don’t mention breakfast,you couldn’t have known but I am a wee bit no very well and I’m
      restricted to a liquid diet to try and maintain my weight.Thank you for the gen on dates,tribe etc,my memory failed me this morning.

      I will also have to apologise to jockanese w.t.as I referred to him/her as Japanese (must try harder)meds fkng up my brain,

      Anyway it’s a beautiful morning down here at the border soon to be known as Checkpoint Charlie,if some clowns get it their
      way.Mind you they will have to get past me first. 🙂

      Peace Always

      PS you are not the first nor the last to come to the attention
      of the self appointed censor of Wings, I think you are about 4th at this time. I got it for (drum roll) mentioning Butterflies in reply to someone.

    399. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      No apology necessary Smallaxe.

      Hope you feel better later on.

    400. bugsbunny says:

      Sorry to hear about your illness Smallaxe. Keep well.

      I also live on a border, The Ayrshire/Galloway border. If what I have read about 6 Ultra Yoon Councillors is right, they were defeated in the Dumfries and Galloway Council Chambers about setting up a Referendum to stay with the UK in the event that Scotland votes Yes and Dumfries and Galloway votes No. So what happens if, say Dalbeattie votes Yes? Can they stay with Scotland? And if a street in Dalbeattie votes no? And if in that No street, there was a Yes voting cul de sac? And what about a No voting house, in a Yes voting Cul De Sac, in a No voting Street, in a Yes voting Town, in a No voting Region in a Yes voting Nation? They don’t think of that, do they? Loony Yoons indeed. And using that analogy, Yes voting Glasgow should be Independent frnm No voting Scotland, including the UK as well.

      Stephen.

    401. Nana says:

      @Smallaxe

      I thought I had left a message straight after I put up the links, too much rushing about. Or perhaps like Kez I didn’t push the button!

      I’m sure I do miss lots of stuff on here, juggling everyday stuff.

      Catching up with the thread I’m sorry to read you are not feeling good today. Hopefully that will change as the day goes on.

      Best go see the new cartoon and then I must walk the dug, he’s in the huff.

    402. Smallaxe says:

      bugsbunny:

      Thanks for your good wishes.

      By the way you Twisted my melon with that post,it’s a beauty,
      I’m originally from Glasgow but most of my family on my late father’s side are from all over Ayrshire,Ayr,Dalmellington,Cummnock etc. I call this area
      Eccledumthrushshire,as you know it’s full of Tory’s and toerags, I had been working down sarf for a few years and came
      back to Scotland so that my daughter could finish her education somewhere sensible.

      Rev Stu will have the hammers out at me for that last paragraph.

      To be perfectly honest I had been working so much in the building and licencing trade that politics was low on my list
      for a while.This site is a relearning curve for me,it has a lot of very politically clever people on it,witch is why I like
      it.

      I was politically active in the sixties and seventies and I’m
      still a member of CND,Amnesty internationalMédecins Sans Frontières UK.and GREENPEACE amongst others.I enjoy sticking
      posts on this site from these organisations to raise awareness
      in some people and annoy some others(you’ve already met one
      of my favourites).

      Scottish Independence is of course very important to me but I
      tend to think globally,the whole world seems to be in crisis at this time no matter which way you turn.I must have bored the arse of you by now so I’ll shut up for a while.

      Peace Love and Being a Pain in the Arse. 🙂

    403. bugsbunny says:

      Smallaxe,

      Funny how you mentioned family from Dalmellington. That’s where I’m from, and still live. I’ve been a member of the SNP for almost 30 years since my boyhood, and CND for 7 years. Then along comes a troll like Hamish100 and accuses me of being a friend of spanner. Funny how you never hear from these folks unless there attacking someone. As you said, “The Mary Whitehouse Appreciation Society”. These people can’t get out much. God knows how they would react to a night in the Pub?

      Stephen.

    404. ScottieDog says:

      @Scot finlayson

      Thanks for the link to Mitchell Innes.
      I didn’t realise he was born in Edinburgh. Our history is steeped in great thinkers!

    405. Nana says:

      @Smallaxe

      Left a message further up the thread,not sure if you saw it. Anyway just wanted to say I hope you are feeling better this evening. xx

    406. Smallaxe says:

      bugsbunny:

      It’s hard trying to keep up with anyone on here,I never know
      when and where to find people at times. I like to keep up with
      Like-minded people such as yourself and obviously avoid certain others,I don’t want to start arguing with anybody as far as I’m concerned if people don’t like my posts all they
      have to do is scroll on past when they see my name.

      I agree with what you said,how would they react to a night in
      a pub,coming from Barlanark in the east end of Glasgow I know
      at least one who would be taking his face home in a carrier bag if he spoke to the wrong person in that manner.Then again
      the vast majority are good people here.I will keep looking back here every so often to see if your here it saves breaking up the main thread.

      Peace Always

      By the way I’m in Gretna. Talk later! Billy

    407. Hi, smallaxe. Getting ready for a night with the lads at our local watering hole.
      We all love the X Factor and Strictly.
      Now that Corbyun has win CorbyRef 2, Kezia will be hard at the shredded in the Branch Office as I type.
      Her political obituary, which will be issued soon, will not include the observation that she knew how to push all the right buttons.
      Let the Night of the Long Knoves begin.
      Keep well, oh builder of bridges.
      I feel a song coming on. My friend Mr A Guinness awaits. Adieu, mon brave.

    408. I cannot type for toffee.

    409. Smallaxe says:

      Jack:

      You say that you can’t type for toffee,are you sure Mr Guinness isn’t already holding your hand whilst you type!
      Enjoy yourself my maritime friend and remember to wear your lifejacket out there tonight in case the tide comes in fast.

      Remember what that guy said yesterday about the sun controlling the tide,just as well it’s dark.

      Peace Love and Pints 🙂

    410. Smallaxe says:

      Nana:
      Got your message OK, and I’m doing fine thanks,its just one of
      those days the oncologist warned me about,its fatigue nothing
      more than a pigging nuisance.

      Peace Always x

    411. Smallaxe says:

      bugsbunny:
      If you have been looking in you may have noticed that K1 is a
      member of our club,he has been attacked by the MWAS also just
      a couple of days ago.

    412. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi bugsbunny/Smallaxe.

      Typing about Mary Whitehouse and Experience…

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nCKYEM8qRc

    413. twathater says:

      Rev great article as always, I along with everybody else am incendiary ,what really really disappoints me is the fact that our SNP SG must have all of the same facts and information at hand yet they haven’t seen fit to produce a similar easily understandable fact sheet for publication.

      I along with others on the site are getting very frustrated by the very MEEK responses put forward by our representatives to continuous jibes ,misinformation and downright lies from the incompetent idiot yoon politicians and msm,

      This meekness only encourages these TWATS, I know that the response of some people is that the SG are being cool and patient, but it appears to the bystander that they have no fight or enthusiasm.

      Make no mistake WE are in a no holds barred fight for our and our childrens and grandchildrens lives and future,patience and coolness will not win any battles, my late father who worked in Fairfield ‘s UCS used to advise, when in a fight get your opponent on the ropes and keep him there,if you let him back up he will keep coming back at you

      No one likes a bully but even big dugs think twice before tangling wi a wee Scots Terrier

      Everything the Rev writes exposes the truth behind the scum unionist lies, the same lies should be exposed frequently and loudly by the FM and the representatives of the Scottish people WE HAVE TO WIN OUR FREEDOM

    414. Smallaxe says:

      Brian Doonthetoon says:
      24 September, 2016 at 11:38 pm
      Hi bugsbunny/Smallaxe.

      “Typing about Mary Whitehouse and Experience…”

      Brian your wan o’ them incorrigible punters,
      that’s you that is!

      Thanks Brian, I only noticed this,this morning,you’ve gave me
      a good laugh for a Sunday morning. 🙂

    415. One_Scot says:

      Test

    416. Ian says:

      The squandering of North Sea oil so far is not ‘spilt milk’. It’s part of the economic incompetence that is the history of the UK over the past 100 years and as brexit shows, continues to this day. In 1911 Sweden’s GDP per person was half that of Scotland’s. By 1970 the Swedish GDP per person was well over double that of Scotland’s (from No Gods & Precious Few Heroes). UK incompetence is not a recent trait. It’s inherent in how the UK has, still is and always will be run.

      The economic history of the UK in all it’s disastrous and shambolic facts needs to be made very high profile so we can avoid continuing to be dragged down by the UK’s dead weight of delusion and greed. The UK is the flip side of independence and despite years of empty words, the actual facts speak for themselves. More squandering. More empty rhetoric. More poverty relative to our neighbours. Facts not rhetoric or delusion –

      http://www.theglobaleconomy.com/compare-countries/



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