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End-Of-The-Road Runner

Posted on February 09, 2019 by

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    1. 09 02 19 09:56

      End-Of-The-Road Runner | speymouth

    2. 10 02 19 10:42

      End-Of-The-Road Runner – Politics Article – Politics Blog

    212 to “End-Of-The-Road Runner”

    1. montfleury says:

      I actually find it quite hard to imagine Mrs May being able to kick a can without dislocating her hips and setting her hair on fire.

    2. jimnarlene says:

      A picture paints a thousand words right enough.

    3. Kennedy says:

      Time to shit or get off the pot

    4. Street Andrew says:

      Neat image, Chris.

      I like that.

      Only the can is real all else is fantasy.

    5. Donald anderson says:

      Syicking her feet in a pot of paint.

    6. Legerwood says:

      Kennedy says:
      9 February, 2019 at 9:40 am
      Time to shit or get off the pot””
      ……

      I think the problem may be that a lot of them were on (the) pot, and much else, when they had the brilliant idea of holding the EU referendum.

    7. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Hello Mary Lou, goodbye …….Britain?
      The Sinn Fein reaction

      twitter.com/phantompower14/status/1093302318345400320?s=21&fbclid=IwAR1ZCu_g2PFQ56BpHoVbOi3Kp7iVk8XrRA0fzzDspAculf1eoiXefoTfczo

    8. Clootie says:

      Another “clever solution” by May.
      …another Union dividend.

    9. starlaw says:

      Another good one Chris, but I think the Eu will be kicking the can from now till 29 March.

    10. Skip Clary says:

      One of your best Chris. Illustrates perfectly the obvious falseness of it all. They aren’t even trying to cover it up anymore, they have the media as willing accomplices and they just keep churning it out day after day. They’re just going through the motions now, waiting for it all to come crashing down, as they know it will.

    11. CameronB Brodie says:

      Her role in Britain’s history will be that of a useful idiot to dark forces beyond her control. IMHO, the government’s lack of preparedness for Brexit indicates an ideological malfeasance of intent. The Tories do not represent Britain, they represent the zombie ideology of neo-liberalism, racialist authoritarianism and English cultural purity. They are a true “blood-and-soil” party.

      Macroprudential Risk Management Problems in Brexit
      https://archive.intereconomics.eu/year/2018/5/macroprudential-risk-management-problems-in-brexit/

    12. X_Sticks says:

      Nice one Chris. Sums up the situation perfectly.

    13. defo says:

      Does she have a Scottish grand-parent?

    14. Kennedy says:

      Legerwood says:
      9 February, 2019 at 9:48 am

      I am of the opinion that the referendum was planned and gamed to avoid paying tax. The rest is collateral damage.

      Westminster serves the party donors not the public.

      The damage to future party support was hardly considered neither was international reputations.

      This will hurt everyone including the elite. There will be a backlash. The times they are a changing!

    15. mumsyhugs says:

      Thelma and Louise moment ahead – with us in the back seat 🙁

    16. Luigi says:

      Does TM have a secret safety net that she’s keeping quite about?

      A wee net hidden below the cliff edge. Something like say 50 Labour MPs losing their nerve at that last minute, per chance?

      Perhaps that is what she is depending on. She just may pull it off and get her deal through. Based on the lack of vertebrae in the Labour party, together with the English tory remainers, the Scottish tory lapdogs and vested interests, I give her a 50:50 chance of success. Risky, very risky, but it’s all she can try.

    17. Luigi says:

      mumsyhugs says:
      9 February, 2019 at 10:37 am
      Thelma and Louise moment ahead – with us in the back seat

      Aye, but we have parachutes. All we have to do is press the ejector button. 🙂

    18. Bob Mack says:

      Funnily enough, her salvation may come in the shape of Corbyn.

      I think if she offers him a few “Socialist” crumbs he will back her deal. No second people’s vote, leaves not much else.

      I despise Labour almost as much as Tory.

    19. defo says:

      Scottish ‘papers’ in.
      All bar one buckled.

      https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-47183111

    20. Gary45% says:

      Nice one Chris.
      I would expect the “colonialist hard core” to run through the painting, over the cliff edge and still not believe their impending demise.(cause Nigel Flange says so)!!! WTF

      luigi@10.41
      My thoughts exactly.

    21. Truth says:

      And that looks like a cliff edge on the other side of the canvas.

    22. Colin Alexander says:

      Nice cartoon and no so daft by the UK Govt.

      The FM has admitted the UK Govt’s Brexit has set the timetable for the FM. The UK Govt act and only then the FM reacts.

      The UK Govt can timewaste, kicking the can doon the road; Keep the ba’ in the corner.

      That’s all they need to do to drag Scotland out of the EU, then use their EU Withdrawal Bill power grab to legislate to create Scottish legal divergence and non-compatibility between Scotlands laws and the EU’s laws.

      Scotland would be out of the EU and unable to re-join the EU or EEA / EFTA, until they undergo a period of realignment with EU law.

      That could mean years.

      That Scotland would be out of the EU and not able to re-join for years would influence any referendum vote, so that YES may not win anyway in those circumstances.

      The UK Master will say: if you thought Brexit was bad, Scottish independence will be a million times worse and would mean Scotland is isolated from EU and UK Unions. We’ll be told We’re doomed unless ruled by UK Parliament.

      My feeling is that the war for independence is being lost right now with every tick of the clock to Brexit Day, while the FM plays the role of stateswoman and UN ambassador with no state to lead, only a colony.

    23. Dorothy Devine says:

      Defo , most of them aren’t Scottish and the ones that are are ‘pretend’ Scottish.

    24. defo says:

      Sorry Dorothy, you’re q correct.
      ‘Scottish’ papers.
      🙂

    25. sassenach says:

      Good to see Cameron Brodie posting again, missed his contributions of late.

      Usual nail on the head cartoon Chris, punching her way through fantasy land – but no doubt financially great for herself and husband, who will so enjoy the fruits of his investments – free of EU regulation.

      Just us poor mugs who’ll carry the can – usual for the Tories!

    26. Cubby says:

      Great toon as ever. No deal Brexit on its way. The falsehood that the road will go on forever.

    27. geeo says:

      Just when we think the can cannot be kicked any further, treeza invests money in roadbuilding, just the one road, mind you, to be completed on March 29th at 11pm.

      Remember, Brexit means Brexit ?

      It is all that matters to them, ANY brexit will do, as long as they take us out by 29th march.

      What i find quite humorous is the notion that if Treeza somehow gets her Norwegian Blue brexit deal past the WM menagerie, that somehow she has saved the day, is hilariously dumb.

      ANY brexit deal which removes Scotland against our expressed will, means an indyref/dissolution of the Treaty of Union.

      All a brexit deal does is change the REASON we are leaving from subjugation of Scots Law to Subjugation of the legally Sovereign Scots People.

      NO Brexit of any form involving Scotland leaving, is acceptable.

    28. Capella says:

      Rumour is that May has kicked the can down to the end of February. It landed with a dull thud. There is still another month of road left. But Labour might well vote with the Tories to get her “deal”passed. That would be the time for the SNP to bail out.

      No SM no deal.

      Well pictorified Chris.

    29. It is no surprise that none of our media outlets reproduce you incisively cruel ‘toons, Chris.
      if you were a Brit Nat lampooning the BadEssEnnPee, you’d have had a book deal by now.
      Don’t even think about it, Cairns.
      While in the real world, where the EU 27 are done listening to England’s Empire, back in fantasy land, the dead Tree Scrolls and BBC Billy Bigot report Corbyn’s Customs Union, some sort of Trade Deal, and protecting workers’ jobs and employment rights as the Breakthrough, that somehow the EU will back yet more cherry picking nonsense, that stops Freedom of Movement and the jurisdiction of the ECJ, and allow England to do deals with countries outside the EU in competition with the EU.
      They are all stark staring bonkers.
      No deal will happen now.
      I’m planting dock leaves this spring; we’ll run out of toilet paper by the end of April.

    30. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Just remember that even if she gets her deal through it takes us out of the EU against our will so it changes nothing on the mandate for independence.

      Some folk seem to be forgetting this.

    31. Calum McKay says:

      labour will be the saviour for May”s plan.

      Who but a fool would believe May on workers rights?

      It’s time for media in Scotland to start covering brexit from a Scottish perspective not a uk perspective!

    32. Dr Jim says:

      @Calum McKay 11.32am

      The problem is Calum the media in Scotland IS the UK media

    33. Giving Goose says:

      If May is hellbent on honouring the result of the Brexit referendum result then the Scottish Government has every right to do the same for the result in Scotland.
      You can’t cherry pick with Scotland’s future Mrs May.

    34. Clootie says:

      Do not underestimate May and the Tories. She has engineered.Corbyn into fools cornet and her other plan is to terrify Scots into rejecting Independence due to more upheaval.

      The Tories have the money, the establishment and the media.

      We all need to keep working on the soft NOs we work with, in the Family, in the shops etc etc

    35. Clootie says:

      Arrgghhh!
      Corner not comet

    36. Dr Jim Says:- @11.37 am

      ‘The problem is Calum the media in Scotland IS the UK media’.
      Not at all, Dr Jim.
      We are all on the edge of our seats Up Here debating the real issues: Tom Gordon has his finger on the pulse of Public Concern, the Reform of the Council Tax, the Fitba’ scribes flood the pages of the Dead Tree Scrolls on the merits of banning a player for planting his foot on the wrong balls, and ‘There’s Been another Murrrrder’!and the antics of Glesca Soprano gangsters.

      The QT Billy Bigot farce was a godsend for the Blue Tories, it managed to get Ross Thomson out of the headlines.
      Is it true that he is fitting grab rails in his WM Office, to avoid any future ‘misunderstandings’?
      The BBC/STV and the ‘Scottish’ Dead Tree Scrolls broadcast and write Parish Newsletter standard of journalism.
      If these guys were any good, they’d leave skid marks on the floor as they sped South to their Spiritual Home, England and London riches.
      As it stands, when the Herald and the Scotsman finally fold, which must be any day now, there are only so many ‘Advertising Sales’ jobs on the Findo Gask Thunderer for our Brit Nat Hacks to fall into.
      I took the Herald for fifty years; it was a mighty fine ‘paper.
      These days, not so much.

    37. ronnie anderson says:

      Chris its been ah long long road with many,s ah winding turn & ah few more winding turns to go before we get to that straight bit .

      Inevitable ending Chris weil done .

    38. CameronB Brodie says:

      Thanks sassenach. I’m simply not a devote of the New Right’s political religion of Brexit. Neither am I a supporter of policy defined through right-wing, populist, English cultural-ism. I tend to favour universal human rights and sovereignty of the individual, instead (see contemporary international law). I dream of a written constitution which gives legal protection to Scotland from the political extremism of another nation (i.e. England).

      Organisations’ preparedness for Brexit: an internal audit perspective

      KEY FINDINGS

      • A vast majority (82%) of the organisations surveyed are affected by the risks associated with Brexit….
      https://www.iia.org.uk/media/1689928/iia3155-brexit-report-a4-aw-web-version.pdf

    39. Famous15 says:

      @Colin Alexander 10.55.

      Carefully crafted distortion of facts to sow depression and conflict in the Independence movement.

      The EU reality is that after Independence they will be beating a path to our door. Brexit will be a reality so they will have no needto pretend to be nice to rUK. We will be treated as helpfully asIreland is currently.

      You know Colin as a British NAtionalist your duty is to divide and rule but the occasional visitor to this site may mistake your classic concern trolling as a sicere point of view. You are a fraud and beneath contempt.

    40. Robert Peffers says:

      @Colin Alexander says: 9 February, 2019 at 10:55 am:

      ” … Nice cartoon and no so daft by the UK Govt.”

      Absolute claptrap, Colin.

      Your entire premise, is based upon the EU colluding with the Westminster Tory Government in order for Scotland to be dragged out of the EU. They show absolutely no signs of doing so.

      All the EU needs to do is to point out the so obvious point that The United Kingdom is exactly that – a union of two only kingdoms formed by an international treaty of union, which, believe it or not is actually titled, “The United Kingdom”, and the treaty, which also, believe it or not, is written in French.

      The Treaty of Union has only two signatory kingdoms and is composed of twenty-five, “Articles of Union”. Each of these, “Articles of Union”, is, in itself, a legally binding constituent part of the written constitution of the United Kingdom.

      One such Article of Union states that both Scots and English Law must forever remain independent of each other. There is no such Rule of Law as either United Kingdom Law or British Law. (From the dictionary):-

      >i>”rule of law”, – the restriction of the arbitrary exercise of power by subordinating it to well-defined and established laws.”

      All the European Union, (Probably via the European Commission), needs to do is to , (correctly legally), state that as the United Kingdom is a two equal partner union of kingdoms and one equally sovereign partner voted to leave the European Union while the other equally sovereign partner kingdom voted to remain in the European union the European Union declares that the partner kingdom that voted to remain will be allowed to remain as the legacy member state and Scotland is the continuing EU member state and England, (which kingdom includes both Wales and N.I.), will get their democratic wish to leave granted.

      They would then, of course, also invoke that other international treaty, The Good Friday Agreement, and in all probability Ireland would vote to reunite.

      Like it or not, Colin, (and you obviously don’t like it), The United Kingdom is indeed a two member partnership with only two equally sovereign partner kingdoms with a written constitution that states they each must always remain to have independent legal systems that, under Scots law, do not recognise the monarch of Scots as being their sovereign and that rules out Westminster as being sovereign because Westminster claims its sovereignty derives from the, pre-union, English Glorious Revolution. It thus cannot be applied to Scotland as Westminster claims.

      Can you refute any of that, Colin?

      I won’t hold my breath while waiting, though.

    41. Dr Jim says:

      Poverty in America used to be blamed on poor white people then they freed the black people from slavery and blamed poverty on poor black people now they blame poverty on Mexicans, Colombians and anybody else who’s not wealthy white people and all the while the poor uneducated white people are in the same position they always were but look up to the wealthy white people as figures to aspire to be, so they vote for the wealthy white people thus perpetrating upon themselves the very thing they think they’re voting against, and the wealthy white people smile at their own continuing success

      If there’s one thing wealthy white people don’t like it’s education (except for themselves) because education will enlighten the poor white people as to the reason the wealthy white people are wealthy and the answer is, the International trade in stupidity, because you can’t subjugate a country without it, you can’t tell an educated person they have democracy when they’re educated enough to know they don’t, so how do the wealthy white people cope with more poor people educating themselves, well they create even more anger in the uneducated people by telling them the educated people are looking down on them as if they’re stupid (which they know they are) but are offended at being told that’s what others think of them by the wealthy white people who they believe are looking after them (by making damn sure they never are educated)

      People who are uneducated angry and afraid are the fodder of the wealthy white people dictator government

      The UK Government employs this tactic and always has done right back to when the Americans learned it from them

    42. geeo says:

      @Dave McEwan Hill says:

      9 February, 2019 at 11:23 am

      Just remember that even if she gets her deal through it takes us out of the EU against our will so it changes nothing on the mandate for independence.

      Some folk seem to be forgetting this.
      …………

      Deja Vu: Me at 11.08am.

      “What i find quite humorous is the notion that if Treeza somehow gets her Norwegian Blue brexit deal past the WM menagerie, that somehow she has saved the day, is hilariously dumb.

      ANY brexit deal which removes Scotland against our expressed will, means an indyref/dissolution of the Treaty of Union….NO Brexit of any form involving Scotland leaving, is acceptable”
      ………….

      Can’t be said enough though.

    43. Robert Peffers says:

      @geeo says: 9 February, 2019 at 11:08 am:

      ” … Remember, Brexit means Brexit?”

      Matter of fact Brexit actually doesn’t mean Brexit, geeo.

      It is not true because Britain isn’t in the European Union. There is no European Union member state called Britain.

      In fact there is no country in the entire World called Britain.

      Both Britain and Great Britain are geographic terms.

      The first is the entire British Archipelago but also includes the Channel Islands which, strictly speaking are European Continent off shore islands.

      The second refers only to the greatest, (i.e. greatest in size), island of the British archipelago. It contains only the countries of Scotland, England and Wales and thus excludes both the politically partitioned island of Ireland, the Isle of Man and the two Channel Island Bailiwicks of Jersey and Guernsey.

      Man & the Channel Bailiwicks are Crown, not Westminster, dependencies and Southern Ireland is a republic and republics cannot be part of a kingdom. So part of the country of Ireland is not part of the United Kingdom.

      So Britain won’t be exiting anything as it is a figment of the Britnat/English imagination. There is no such nation as Britain and no such parliament as the Parliament of Britain.

    44. geeo says:

      If i used the term UKEXIT then nobody would know what i was referencing, Robert.

      The desperation of ensuring the Uk are leaving, no matter what, on marcgh 29th, was the actual point i was making.

      I am well aware Britain is not a country ffs.

    45. Republicofscotland says:

      Nice one Chris, this one reminds of the 2014 Better Together campaign which featured a stretch of German road passed off as a great British one.

      When the truth came out BT was ridiculed.

    46. Robert Peffers says:

      @Calum McKay says: 9 February, 2019 at 11:32 am:

      ” … It’s time for media in Scotland to start covering brexit from a Scottish perspective not a uk perspective!”

      Err” Calum, I don’t really want to nit-pick but –

      there is no such thing as a uk perspective. The United Kingdom is a two partner union of two, equally sovereign, kingdoms.

      While there are indeed only two kingdoms that make up, “The United Kingdom”, the Kingdom of England is comprised of three countries. What is more the United Kingdom has never been actually ran as a United Kingdom of equally sovereign kingdoms.

      It is presently actually being run as the country of England as the master country that is governed directly by the Westminster parliament from Westminster Parliament ministries while the English Kingdom country of what remains of the country of Ireland within , “The United Kingdom”, is again directly under Westminster rule. The English Kingdom country of Wales runs under the de fact parliament of the country of England’s devolved powers and the only actual United Kingdom partner Kingdom and country of Scotland is demoted to being also a country of England devolved dominion.

      Sorry to say that the de facto Westminster Parliament of the country of England and the legal truth are total strangers one to the other.

      Westminster – The mythical Parliament of Britain that just keeps on taking.

    47. Dorothy Devine says:

      Jack , when I first came to Glasgow from Press and Journal land I was very impressed with the Glasgow Herald and up until the SMG took it over and there was a change of direction which promoted one view as opposed to the many, I thought it an excellent paper. Then Newsquest and the indy ref when only Ian Bell was talking for me opened my eyes to deliberate spin and mislead. Since then it has plumbed the depths and become an unfunny comic .

      When it no longer ‘graces’ the shelves of newsagents I will not miss it and I imagine few will shed tears.

    48. galamcennalath says:

      One scenario where May might get her deal through is if Corbyn’s requirements are added to the document describing the future trade objectives. The EU won’t change the WA but could change the future direction document.

      ‘Loyal’ Tories and Labour might provide enough votes. Those MPs wanting either hard Brexit or Remain will continue to oppose.

      With a commitment to stay in customs union the backstop will never apply.

      Not predicting this may actually happen, but it seems a possibility.

    49. Robert Peffers says:

      @CameronB Brodie says: 9 February, 2019 at 12:09 pm:

      ” … I tend to favour universal human rights and sovereignty of the individual, instead (see contemporary international law). I dream of a written constitution which gives legal protection to Scotland from the political extremism of another nation (i.e. England).”

      But! But! But”, CameronB, there has been one of those written constitution thingies in the law of both the Kingdom of Scotland and her only legal partner kingdom in the United Kingdom since the 1 May 1707.

      Its a legally signed international treaty called, “The Treaty of Union”, and it is the written document that actually constituted the United Kingdom partnership between two, equally sovereign, (they had to be equally sovereign in order to sign up to an international treaty), so where on Earth did you get this quaint idea the United Kingdom doesn’t have a written constitution?

      Correct me if I’m wrong but if a written document, “constitutes”, a united kingdom is that not the legal definition of, “A written Constitution of The United Kingdom”?

      Now I have, many, many times, read both the preamble and all 25 , “Articles of Union”, and again correct me if I am wrong, but does not each individual, “Article”, on a written agreement constitute a legal requirement in its own right?

      Now the first strange thing I noted, all those years ago when I first read the Treaty of Union was there was not a single use of the words country or countries in the entire document. Does that not signify that the Treaty of union formed a bipartite united kingdom and not a quadratic united country called The United Kingdom?

    50. Grouse Beater says:

      Very nice, Chris. I like the fake backdrop. No Deal, here we go!

      Your essential weekend reading

      How to denude Scotland of food, land and people: https://wp.me/p4fd9j-noI

    51. wull2 says:

      They cant blame the chaos at the racecourse because Brexit stopes the horses coming to the UK, Move to the next question, nothing to answer here. What about squirrel racing meantime. Good question.

    52. Cubby says:

      Some people say we are England.
      Some people say we are Britain.
      Some people say we are Great Britain.
      Some people say we are Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
      Some people say we are the UK.
      Some people say we are GB.
      Some people say we are The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland.
      No people say we are the UKGBNI.
      Some people say we are a region of England.
      Some people say we are a region of Britain.
      Some people say we are a region of Great Britain.
      Some people say we are a region of the UK.
      Some people say we are a country.
      Some people say we are not a country but a union.

      I say we are Scotland one of the world’s oldest countries. No more identity confusion.

    53. Breeks says:


      Robert Peffers says:
      9 February, 2019 at 12:31 pm

      “…..All the EU needs to do is to point out the so obvious point that The United Kingdom is exactly that – a union of two only kingdoms formed by an international treaty of union, which, believe it or not is actually titled, “The United Kingdom””….

      But they didn’t do that Robert. They had the chance. The EU was complicit in excluding Scotland from Brexit negotiations, but not because of their agenda, but because Westminster is the recognised sovereign voice of the UK, and as such, the only interface the EU can hold dialogue with. Why didn’t the SNP pile in with a Constitutional challenge right there and then???

      Scotland MUST test the legitimacy of UK Parliamentary Sovereignty, because until it does, then the prevailing view will remain. You are correct about Scotland’s Constitutional heritage, but it is worthless to us unless and until we formally dispute UK Parliamentary Sovereignty and insist that the International Community recognises the veracity of Scotland’s claim to be sovereign.

      This does NOT require a democratic mandate or majority. All it requires is one Constitutional Lawyer asking the right question of another Constitutional Lawyer, and letting the potency of Scots Law and Scotland’s Constitution do all the heavy lifting.

      We do not have to prove Sovereignty, (though we can), it will suffice for Scotland to stay in Europe merely to dispute UK Parliamentary Sovereignty and require Westminster to prove it’s claim, and occasion Westminster to clearly articulate the mechanism whereby it removes the sovereign birthright of every Scottish citizen. If some amongst us are too wet and queasy to stand up for Scotland’s Constitutional Sovereignty, then at the very least we can surely pull the wheels off Westminster’s faux Sovereignty.

      This “know it all but do nothing” approach is insufferable. It causes everybody to wonder just what exactly the SNP is playing at. It’s a minute to midnight and we are running out of time.

    54. Dr Jim says:

      The SNP have done such a good job of protecting us from the bad guys some people haven’t noticed the bad guys are that bad

      The same people seem to think the SNP are in total charge when they’re not

      The opposition to the SNP shout about things the SNP should be doing knowing full well they don’t have the power to do these things because the opposition made sure they voted against the devolution of those very things they shout about knowing full well the stupid the thick and the numptie don’t know that

      Then again all that information is *concealed* within books and Yoons don’t do reading they just do angry shouting

      At the wrong people

    55. Brian Powell says:

      The way folk keep discussing the various ‘possibilities’ of the fuck up that is any form pf Brexit shows just how easily the right control the argument, even when they don’t know what they are doing.

      Politicians of all parties are scurrying around trying to find some little way they can make it a bit less bad.

      Now, four years after the IndRef and 2.5 years after BrexitRef, we get Angus Robertson starting a campaign etc, but only now.

      We gave the leadership 125,000 members, 56MPs, initially, and more Councillors than ever before.

      Nothing happened. We didn’t do that just to get good MPS, MSPs and Councillors, the purpose went beyond that. The leadership didn’t appear to understand that.

      I was and am willing to sacrifice getting an Independent Scotland, I’m not willing to just sit in a Brexit prison hoping for some turning point in how people think some time in the future, while our powers and assets are stripped and our own Government goes through the process of making it happen, because it is their ‘legal duty.

    56. Robert Peffers says:

      @geeo says: 9 February, 2019 at 1:01 pm:

      ” … If i used the term UKEXIT then nobody would know what i was referencing, Robert. “

      Absolute rubbish, geeo. You knew exactly what it meant. did you not? Are you implying you are cleverer than everyone else?

      … The desperation of ensuring the Uk are leaving, no matter what, on marcgh 29th, was the actual point i was making.”

      I’m well aware of the point you are making. geeo.

      What I’m attempting to point out, as usual and in so many different ways, is that the use of the Westminster brainwashing terms that Westminster has implanted in the population of, not just but mainly, the people of the actual United Kingdom that is not and never has been a United Kingdom nor even a united country is only ever going to reinforce the implantation of lies in people’s minds.

      ” … I am well aware Britain is not a country ffs.”

      I know you are well aware of it geeo. Which is not the point.

      The point being that by NOT correcting what you write and what you say will only further the interests of the people who implanted that incorrect phrase in your mind in the first place.

      Not only should we all be correcting ourselves but we should interrupt anyone, and everyone, who continues to use the terms implanted by the unionists in the first place.

      Now I actually did the following when I was fit and able enough to maintain my own YouTube Channel.

      I took speeches made by such as the then Prime Minister, David Cameron, and edited the entire speech by beeping each and every misuse of terms and inserted the correct term as a subtitle.

      It was hilarious. Cameron could, and did, often use wrong terms several times within a single sentence.

      Now here’s the point – the entire World that watched/listened to that Cameron speech were saying exactly the same as you :-

      ” … I am well aware Britain is not a country ffs.”

      Thing is they still went on using the same wrong terms.

      Now pause for a moment and consider this – what if Theresa May was making a speech and every time she misused the term, “The country”, when she meant the whole United Kingdom, (that isn’t actually a united kingdom), someone called her to account by interrupting to ask, “Which one of the four United Kingdom countries are you referring to Prime Minister?”.

      She would very rapidly become even more of a laughing stock than she already is. Yet everyone would know exactly what she had meant. The point is it would effectively kill off a great many misconceptions that Westminster has always fostered.

      Just picture it_

      Theresa: “Brexit means Brexit”.
      Audience: “Oh! No it doesn’t – Britain is not an EU Member state”.

      In an instant the speech has descended into the level of a Christmas Panto with audience chants of, “Oh! no it isn’t.”, and – “He’s behind you”, and such like.

      Make no mistake someone was probably paid big bucks to dream up the term, “Brexit”, and all the other utter claptrap Westminster uses as a matter of course.

      The very term United Kingdom first used wrongly on 1 May 1707 is still a wrong term today in 2019. On 1 May the Scottish representatives were already being treated as second class members of the continued parliament of the country of England and now, in 2019 they still call it the United Kingdom Parliament but it is the de facto parliament of the country of England devolving as little of the English parliaments sovereign powers as they can get away with down to three subservient dominion parliaments. In fact Norther Ireland has been under direct Westminster rule for quite a while now.

    57. Colin Alexander says:

      The 20 year old Devolution settlement had the democratic mandate: ripped up by the undemocratic Lords in 2018.

      Devolved powers grabbed to UK Parliament by the Lords.

      Remain in the EU vote: ignored.

      The Indyref No vote meant a democratic mandate for maximum home rule for Scotland. That Mandate never delivered.

      By the above breaches of trust UK Parliament has lost the right to rule over Scotland with sovereign power.

      The UK state has broken its covenant of trust to use the power loaned to it by the sovereign people of Scotland.

      The people must now take back their sovereign power to Scotland.

      Holyrood should be declared the supreme parliament for Scotland.
      Not ending the Union, as there is not a democratic mandate for that yet.

      There is a democratic mandate for remain in the EU.

      Time for Scotland’s politicians to deliver those democratic mandates via the Scottish Parliament by declaring it the supreme Parliament of Scotland, within the UK Union, with the Lords no longer recognised at all, due to its perverse use of the power loaned it.

      Respect democracy. Respect the democratic mandates of the sovereign people. Declare Holyrood supreme.

      When the majority of the sovereign people vote for independence is when that independence mandate should also be delivered by Holyrood.

    58. orri says:

      The scottish courts have already denied the existence of Parliamentary Sovereignty. We simply need to remind Westminster of the fact that in Scotland the people are sovereign.

      However it’s telling that the proposed be Act of Union includes a proposal to overturn that crucial point of the Scottish constitution. More importantly should it come to a referendum I’ve little doubt a UK wide approval would be construed as abolishing our personal sovereignty even if not even a single solitary Scot voted for that.

      One good thing about it is that it calls into question every presumption about the UK constitution.

    59. CameronB Brodie says:

      Robert Peffers
      Stop pulling my leg Robert.

      The Union and the Constitution

      Executive Summary

      The Scottish National Party’s (SNP’s) independence referendum raises the importance of the Anglo-Scottish Union underpinning the UK’s multi-national state.

      Traditionally, on both sides of the border, a consensus prevailed in constitutional law that parliament was supreme and untrammelled. However, within Scotland there has been a growing awareness of the neglected significance of the Union agreement of 1707 in the British constitution.

      The double-layering of the British constitution is under-appreciated. The Union of 1707, a hasty measure devised to confront short-term problems, scarcely dented the well-established contours of the existing English constitution, despite the fact that the Union was supposedly constitutive of a new British state.

      Devolution has brought into focus the incoherence at the heart of the constitution, one of whose most obvious current defects is popularly referred to as the West Lothian Question.

      The British constitution is in a state of transition between an unwritten constitution – with a very wide measure of parliamentary discretion- and a more codified kind of constitution. The question of the Anglo-Scottish Union provides another critical wedge into this debate.

      Thus the current squabble over the nature and timing of the Scottish referendum derives in some measure from two competing notions about the location of sovereignty. Many Scottish intellectuals and politicians – Labour and Liberal, as well as SNP – believe that Scotland has a tradition of popular sovereignty which can be traced back to the Declaration of Arbroath in 1320. The British constitution, by contrast, rests on the idea of the sovereignty of parliament.

      Regardless of the outcome of the Scottish referendum, it seems likely that the British constitution will need to be reframed to take account of the fact that the UK is already a ‘state of unions’. If Scotland remains in the Union then the British constitution will need to be clarified. Alternatively, even if Scotland withdraws from the Union, then the surviving state will be an odd ensemble of England, Wales and Northern Ireland whose underpinning principles of unity will be a succession of Acts of union (and disunion) between the sixteenth century and the present. Either scenario presents a pressing need for constitutional reframing.

      http://www.historyandpolicy.org/policy-papers/papers/the-union-and-the-constitution

    60. Bob Mack says:

      Slightly off topic, but just heard “Mr Question time “was sacked from his job some time ago because he was caught driving the firm’s van whilst he was banned for drink driving. He forgot to tell them. Waster.

      From somebody who knows him.

    61. yesindyref2 says:

      Well, you couldn’t put a zigzag between Scotland and Ireland. Last week England made no mistakes against Ireland, Scotland made 2, and that’s about it. But 22 or 24 phases from Scotland against 100% defence shows the quality Scotland has now.

    62. Thepnr says:

      The can might yet be kicked down the road for a few weeks yet and maybe even more than that.

      The next EU Council meeting is on the 20th March and no matter what happens between now and then I would expect the UK to be seeking an extension to Article 50.

      From everything I’ve read it seems that even if some kind of modified deal has been agreed in Westminster then there still wouldn’t be enough time to get all the legislation through before 29th March.

      I think in this scenario with an agreed deal then the EU would allow an extension of a couple of months for Westminster to pass the legislation.

      I don’t think we will have an agreed deal though so there will need to be some other reason for an extension to be given, the obvious two being a General Election or a second referendum. Without an extension we will leave with No deal.

      Nothing at all has changed since the last EU Council meeting in November, only the time left has gotten shorter.

      The two most likely outcomes are in my opinion still a second referendum or No deal and I still favour the former as being more likely than the latter which doesn’t have many takers on Wings I know.

      Still, we’ll all know eventually and Brexit can be put to bed and we can then get on with gaining our Independence 🙂

    63. wull says:

      Do I hear the cry: ‘Nicola … Where are you?’

      Or maybe it’s this: ‘Nicola … Come Home!’

      Or am I dreaming?

    64. jezza says:

      I see the Proud Scot Buts… are not doing so well at the Rugger at Murrayfield.

      At least they can say it was a fellow EU country Tha gubbed them.

    65. Essexexile says:

      Ever improving Scotland just not quite good enough today. Some of the best Scottish rugby I’ve seen for years in the first half though.
      Ireland have peaked imo. They’ll be beaten again in this championship.

    66. yesindyref2 says:

      Ah well, too many mistakes.

    67. jezza says:

      The camera zoomed in on the crowd at Murrayfield with the fans sporting their painted Saltire faces and every single one of them will be a dyed in the wool Unionist.

    68. yesindyref2 says:

      @Essexexile
      Not so sure if it’s Ireland have peaked as that the likes of England and largely Scotland have their measure at last and don’t let them play their flat accurate passing game. But England made no mistakes last week, Scotland made plenty of basic handling errors, including a couple of elementary forward passes.

    69. CameronB Brodie says:

      Weez were robbed. Three loose passes, three breakaway tries. 🙁

    70. yesindyref2 says:

      @CBB
      Pretty much. The game’s improved that much the last years any mistake is penalised.

    71. Tom Busza says:

      jezza

      Please elucidate us all why you assert that the Scottish rugby team and all Scottish rugby fans at Murrayfield are all unionists? Just out of interest.

    72. Essexexile says:

      Jezza
      That’s the difference between patriotism Vs nationalism of course.
      I watched the Ireland / England game last week with some English friends who are pretty ashamed of their country at the moment but cheered like hell for 80 mins.
      Not a Barbour wearing gammon among them. Just rugby fans cheering on their team.

    73. Robert Peffers says:

      @Breeks says: 9 February, 2019 at 2:12 pm:

      ” … The EU was complicit in excluding Scotland from Brexit negotiations, but not because of their agenda, but because Westminster is the recognised sovereign voice of the UK, and as such, the only interface the EU can hold dialogue with. Why didn’t the SNP pile in with a Constitutional challenge right there and then???”

      You gave the answer yourself, Breeks.

      The United Kingdom are the member state and the EU will continue to treat them as such until they cease to be the official member state. Diplomacy has strict protocols and it is very exceptional for any state to break such protocols. Even dictatorships are treated under such protocols. Just about the most severe reports you get before war is actually declared by one state against another is a news report that, “The Ambassador to *****onia has written to the Head of ****many to protest about the incident on the borders between opposing armies”.

      So the EU will treat Westminster with outward respect, That doesn’t mean they are not doing otherwise in practice. There has indeed been signs of a much harder stance coming from the EU and EC negotiators over the last few weeks. You quite simply will not find out what is actually happening from the UK media.

      I’ve several times posted links to clips showing actual EU support for Scotland but you won’t find out and out stuff although one clip did show Farage getting a real going over even being asked why the hell he was there as he had opposed the EU negotiators. This was on the same clip as the standing ovation for Alyn Smyth when he said, “Scotland didn’t you down – don’t let Scotland down now”, and the entire chamber rose to its feet and gave him a standing ovation.

      So there you saw massive EU support for Scotland and a skelpit earse for Nigel Farage in the same clip. However, there will be no official moves until Westminster is no longer the UK official leadership.

      Why ever would the EU want to hinder Scotland as a member state? The whole ethos of the EU is to unite Europe – not to fragment it. Scotland has already been told that she will be welcome in other European international organisations but the EU has only two options – Scotland in or out and why would they want Scotland out? Why would they want Scotland to go elsewhere and Scotland not being in would risk the EU losing Scotland?

      Note the reaction of Spain – Spain says they will not veto Scotland. Why would Spain risk being excluded from the Scottish fishing grounds if Scotland is not in the EU and Spain is the EU’s biggest fishing fleet. In the UK media they reported that Spain were to veto Scotland but the Spanish PM immediately denied the claims. No UK media reported the Spanish denial.

      What Scotland has everyone wants – and that is especially true of England.

      ” … Scotland MUST test the legitimacy of UK Parliamentary Sovereignty”

      No Scotland does not. In the first place Scottish law states that the people of Scotland are sovereign. Secondly the Treaty of Union agrees. There is absolutely no legal evidence, other than Westminster claims to be sovereign but in the event of the union splitting up Westminster legally ceases to exist . It is the UK parliament – and without Scotland there is no UK and neither is there, an elected as such, Parliament of England.

      I first argued that point in a school debating society in the late 1940s. To date no one has yet come up with any evidence to prove my argument wrong. Thing is I’ve taken on former Prime Ministers, former Secretaries of State for defence and for Scotland and former Chancellors. What evidence did they produce?

      None!

      What evidence did I have? Current Scots Law going back to 1320 and still current. Also the Treaty of Union of 1706/7 that upholds that particular tenet of Scots law. Not to mention the simple little fact that if that evidence in the Treaty of Union is not correct then the Treaty of Union must be void and no longer apply. In which case there is no legal United Kingdom to implement it.

      So there you go – Westminster cannot go to a court – any court- and produce evidence that shows the Treaty of Union or current Scottish Law, doesn’t apply.

      Because, if they did so they would be attempting to prove there was no valid Treaty of Union in force and the Treaty of Union, like the GFA, is the property of the international courts as are all international treaties. It simple isn’t Westminster’s to nullify. When a biparty treaty is agreed the two parties must both freely accept it but either one of them can reject it at any time. The Treaty of Union either is acceptable to both kingdoms or it applies to neither.

      Now either bring proof of your argument or the argument has been won.

    74. yesindyref2 says:

      @Tom Busza
      The answer to your question is in mathematics, and it ain’t subtraction, addition or multiplication.

    75. jezza says:

      Tom Bonzo

      It is just my opinion.

      Are opinions cancelled on Wings???

    76. sandy says:

      Jazza & others.

      Get this inane, blind, altogether shit that if you’re a rugby player or supporter you are automatically a “proud Scot but”.

      No mention of the knuckle-draggers who frequent Ibrox,

      Get a life, for God’s sake. I assume that you have more than one cell in that cranium of yours.

    77. Essexexile says:

      Loving this mass defiance of the ‘hard line nationalist stasi’ that has broken out on Wings today. Feels like the wall is about to come down.
      Hopefully, they’ll all bugger off to South America to live under aliases!

    78. jezza says:

      Gavin and Scott Hastings sum up Scottish Rugby quite nicely.

      Or are they the minority.

      Have I got it all wrong?

    79. sandy says:

      Jazza.

      Refrain from making sweeping statements.
      Cover yourself with phrases such as ” I believe” or I understand” or “in my opinion”.
      Leave the mythical inanities to the Unionist politicians.
      It will also deter posters on this site taking the pish out of you.

    80. Robert Peffers says:

      @Brian Powell says: 9 February, 2019 at 2:38 pm:

      I’m not even going to argue with that load of utter pish.

      In the first place it doesn’t matter what the reasons individuals have for voting for the SNP at any level – no one – and I do mean no one – has any information that everyone who voted SNP voted for them on only the little matter of Independence. In fact all evidence points the other way.

      Secondly nothing that has so far happened has returned an overall majority of the legally sovereign people of Scotland to end the United Kingdom. The best there is on offer is a mandate to hold a referendum on the matter and simply going by this current thread on Wings it is very evident there are many, who invariably claim to be indy supporters who jusy haven’t got a grip on reality.

      Do I really need to post these facts on every bloody thread?

      The Treaty of Union legally constituted the United Kingdom. It is thus undoubtedly, in spite of what Westminster claims, a 25 Article of Union Written constitution of the United Kingdom.

      One of those Articles of Union states that the two kingdoms individual Rules of Law are forever to remain independent of each other and the law of Scotland states that the people. not the crown or the parliament, are legally sovereign. To date that has never been changed but Westminster claims, without offering evidence, that under English law The Monarchy of the Kingdom of England are legally sovereign and that in 1688 the parliament of the Kingdom of England rebelled and deposed their monarch and upon replacing the monarchy of England ruled that the monarchy of England had to legally delegate their royal powers to the parliament of England but Scotland was still an independent kingdom until the agreement of the Treaty of Union of 1706/7.

      So Westminster is delegated the sovereignty of the Kingdom of England but Scots law is unchanged and under Scots law the people remain still legally sovereign.

      All stone cold facts – anyone care to prove them wrong?

      O/K. So we have established the fact that the United Kingdom was constituted by The Treaty of Union and that Treaty says the two rules of Law remain independent and thus the people of Scotland remain legally sovereign.

      If you need proof modern law states that all Scots have legal right to roam with a few exceptions that are down to safety, (like on railway lines or MOD property). Also there are restrictions due to personal privacy in the immediate environs of private dwellings. An example of modern law is that no private company or person can clamp or tow away a vehicle parked upon private property and demand money to release it back to the owner. The private person doing so is guilty of demanding money with menace or coercion. Threat used to obtain money or other gain and that includes threat of legal action.

      So if Scots are legally sovereign then Westminster/Queen cannot also be legally sovereign in Scotland.

      If the people of Scotland are legally sovereign and Westminster isn’t and neither is Holyrood then if the people of Scotland, not the SNP or the SG, then if/when a recognised majority of the legally sovereign people of Scotland say the United Kingdom is over then the United Kingdom is legally over.

      Thing is that neither the SG or SNP yet have a proven majority of the people of Scotland in order to declare the union has ended. This is where the mandate that the SG/SNP has to hold an indyref2 is vital. Without it they cannot claim the right of the sovereign people to end the union and no other organisation in Scotland has a hope in hell of getting such a majority of the Legally sovereign people of Scotland.

      It really is as simple as that – if/when there is a majority of the legally sovereign people of Scotland ready to give that mandate to the SG and or the SNP even if they are not in power at Holyrood, we will not get independence.

      So anyone care to venture a thought as to why there are so many here on Wings who spend most of their time on Wings attempting to undermine the SNP?

      Yet no one stops them from contacting the FM, the SG or the SNP directly with their complaints. Why would they choose to do so on an open forum that everyone with an interest in Scottish independence knows is NOT affiliated to the SNP?

      Who is it these people want to discourage and who is they aim to encourage?

    81. yesindyref2 says:

      Gavin Hastings and Scott Hastings haven’t played for Scotland since 1995 and 1997. Get a life!

    82. yesindyref2 says:

      I could name at least 4 of the current rugby squad who are obviously blatantly YES voters, but couldn’t name one single NO voter.

    83. Robert Peffers says:

      @orri says: 9 February, 2019 at 2:45 pm:

      ” … One good thing about it is that it calls into question every presumption about the UK constitution.”

      Orri, There isn’t such a thing as presumption about the UK constitution. The Treaty of union constituted the United Kingdom and it is the only written document that constituted the United Kingdom.

      There is no presumption because the constitution of the United Kingdom is the 25 Articles of Union contained in the Treaty of Union.

      They are quite clear and they state that the two rules of law are to remain independent forever.

      The law of Scotland, and it is still extant, states that the people, and neither the parliament nor the royal person, are legally sovereign.

      If we get a majority of the voters then whatever they say is law and furthermore not even a Scottish Government in power can legally stop it.

    84. Essexexile says:

      That pop up pass from the floor by Finn Russell had every Unionist shouting ‘Yes!’

    85. jezza says:

      As I understand it Scottish Rugby is run by a shower of Proud Scot Buts…

      There,,,sorted.

    86. K1 says:

      May and her government getting telt:

      “She has acted with her eyes wide open in absolute bad faith. We regard the position adopted by Mrs May and her govt as one of hostility to Irish interests.”

      Sinn Féin press conference:

      https://twitter.com/OxfordDiplomat/status/1094285493494341633

    87. Tom Busza says:

      Thanks Sandy, My sentiments too.

      Just one final thought. I note that jezza said “At least they can say it was a fellow EU country Tha gubbed them.” (4.00 pm. I assume you mean Ireland.
      Just for information, IRFU is the governing body for rugby in the whole of the island of Ireland, which includes N. Ireland. So maybe a portion of the Irish supporters at Murrayfield would also be classified as unionist.
      At the end of the day, we are talking about a game of rugby and, as such, should not be politicised, as any sport should not be politicised.
      Just enjoy the game. If your team loses, then there’ll be another chance.

    88. Meg merrilees says:

      galamcennalath

      I’m sure T May is tempted.

      I’ve heard that if she can get her deal across she will call a GE for May 6th – (t)Ruthless back on May 4th – hope to increase her majority, lose some of the rebels, and ditch the DUP then she can basically shaft N. Ireland with any deal she wants.

      Only snag is that a custom’s union means she can’t negotiate free trade deals I believe.

    89. Meg merrilees says:

      K1

      so T May’s been telt, eyes wide open, you know exactly what you are doing and who you are shafting and if you insist on following this line you will lose N. Ireland and Scotland.
      SNP has made that clear many times.

      Going well then Theresa!

    90. galamcennalath says:

      @Meg merrilees

      I’ve seen a few other things today, and I’m beginning to wonder if this what May will do – get Corbyn’s ideas into the future trade document, dump the DUP and her own far right, and get most of Labour on board to support the WA as it stands.

      Then it get sold as a deal in ‘national unity’. The SNP will oppose, and of course should do so.

      This is not all bad. As you say there will be a GE in June. We need to work hard to get some Tory seat back because they will be working for the opposite!

      The outcome is still too hard for Scotland so we should go with IndyRef2 after the GE.

    91. K1 says:

      Quite so Meg, that press conference was just in the last hour. So it seems quite a ‘wow’ statement from Mary Lou McDonald to make after discussions with May.

      It’s not going well at all and to literally state that Ireland now views the ‘British government’s’ position as hostile ‘to Irish interests’ is perhaps the boldest and most direct statement yet made on the back of any talks that have so far taken place.

      May has reached utter desperation to try to take the backstop off the table to satisfy the hard right of her party. They have picked the wrong country with 27 other countries at their back, to bully into submission.

    92. call me dave says:

      @K1

      Thanks for posting that link.

      No Irish mincing around there! 🙂

      Telt indeed.

      As you say all going well.

    93. Calum McKay says:

      Dr Jim @11.37

      I get that, but

      Listening to Shareen this morning on the radio, the ingredients of the programme are generally the following:

      – an Irish contributor

      I have no objection to this, Irish are lovely folk, but the Irish chosen pamelist without fail conflate uk feelings, traits or beliefs with Scottish feelings, traits or beliefs

      Labour representative:

      Generally right wing Harris, everything is tinged with SNP BAD and only labour can save Scotland from evil tories. Him, ironically being a brexiteer who has left labour???

      – Riight winger – non declared – but obviously tory, tries to put a human face on nasty tory policies like universal credit or brexit.

      – Drunk woman – generally there is a female who appears to have come straight from a club, sluring her words and still hung over, speaks little sense – political offiliations unknown, knows a lot about telly, but FA else.

      They then proceed to discuss topics and completely ignore the nation they are there to serve!?

      They use the term “we voted to leave”? Scots did not vote to leave! This is ignored, as is our country. I even recall onepanelist refering to Scottie on Star Treck as a brit???

      What annoys me most Dr Jim is that the our government do not challenge this and other unionist biased nonsense we get from the bbc and its left to Stuart and others ro provide opposition to this……nonesense!

      Our press need the balls diplayed by a female Irish reporter this week asked Mrs May about the tories “shafting Ireland” on brexit, oh that the Scottish press has the same balls!

    94. Colin Alexander says:

      Robert Peffers

      As you say, we can’t dissolve the Union without the mandate of the sovereign people of Scotland (spS).

      There is the democratic mandate already from the sPS for maximum home rule. It was given in 2014.

      Holyrood should be declared the supreme or premier parliament for Scotland by a National Convention of MPs and MSPs.

      A supreme parliament can hold constitutionally binding indyrefs or do whatever it wants – including cancelling Scotland’s exit from the EU.

      The UK Govt may be the UK’s representative, but it can’t have a Scottish Brexit that it has no power to do, if Scotland has removed that power from it.

      This would take time. Time is running out.

      Scottish MPs etc should apply for an Interim Interdict on Brexit while Scotland’s sovereignty is being asserted to effect maximum home rule.

    95. ronnie anderson says:

      K1 And Mary Lou Mc Donald isnae talking Blarney

    96. Robert Peffers says:

      @CameronB Brodie says: 9 February, 2019 at 2:48 pm:

      ” … Stop pulling my leg Robert.”

      Nah! I’m not pulling your leg – or anyother bit of you either.
      ;-))

      ” … The Union and the Constitution
      Executive Summary”

      Aye! Well there is a wee, but important flaw it that Executive Summery, CameronB.

      ” … Many Scottish intellectuals and politicians – Labour and Liberal, as well as SNP – believe that Scotland has a tradition of popular sovereignty which can be traced back to the Declaration of Arbroath in 1320.”

      Now I’m neither an intellectual or a politician but that wee claim above is quite untrue. The claim stretches back long before the declaration of Arbroath. The Declaration of Arbroath was brought about by the efforts of the English crown to take over the Kingdom of Scotland. The English crown had held the ear of the Holy Roman See and had for centuries been trying to absorb, (under Divine Right of Kings that was generally the rule of law throughout Christendom).

      Other evidence of this English and Holy Roman See influence was that the Pope was worried about the Irish Cristian Church that had deviated somewhat from the Christian church teachings.

      To counter the Irish Christian influence the Pope appointed the King of the Kingdom of England as Lord of Ireland:-

      “The Gaelic kingdoms of Ireland ended with the Norman invasion of Ireland, when the kingdom became a fief of the Holy See under the Lordship of the King of England. This lasted until the Parliament of Ireland conferred the crown of Ireland upon King Henry VIII of England during the English Reformation.”

      And:-

      “The English Reformation was a series of events in 16th-century England by which the Church of England broke away from the authority of the Pope and the Roman Catholic Church.”

      In any event the Declaration of Arbroath was a plan to get Robert Bruce off the hook after the papacy, influenced by the English king, had excommunicated the Bruce for the killing of the Red Comyn on the alter steps of Dumfries High Kirk.

      Now the facts are that no one could know what happened in Dumfries Kirk as the two men were there alone. It may well have been self defence. Anyhow, one of the Bruce contingent returned to the Comyn after Bruce said he thought he had killed the Comyn, saying that he, “Wad mak siccar”, (he would make sure). So the Comyn may have been still alive.

      However, the Pope assumed Scots Law was the same, “Divine right of Kings”, as the rest of Europe and excommunicated the Bruce. That meant the excommunication applied to the entire kingdom and every one of the people in it as under Dib=vine Right the king owned everything and everyone. Scotland could not trade with anyone. No one wanted to know.

      The declaration not only claimed Scotland an independent kingdom but declared the King was not sovereign under, “Traditional Scots Law”. Now it must be assumed that the pope wasn’t daft and that the declaration was not enough to convince him. There must have been provided some proofs that this was indeed the laws of Scotland and now a new invented excuse.

      Whatever, the papacy ruled that Scotland was an independent Kingdom and the excommunication was lifted because the King was not sovereign and thus the people were innocent.

      Furthermore, the English claimed Union of the Crowns fizzled out and England was threatened by war with France and they feared The Auld Alliance would result in a French/Scottish invasion.

      The scam of the Darien Expedition and the proven involvement of the London Scot, William Paterson and English Spy, Danial Defoe was the prelude for the bribery, blackmail and threats that brought about the Treaty of Union.

      Never forget either that the crown army was still slaughtering anything that moved at and after the Battle of Culloden nearly 40 years after the Treaty was signed.

    97. Petra says:

      The Mary-Lou McDonald statement was made on the 6th February, 3 days ago, following her meeting with Big T who was in Belfast for Brexit talks.

      http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/video-news/mary-lou-mcdonald-says-theresa-may-arrived-in-belfast-empty-handed-and-with-no-honour-37789114.html

    98. Robert Louis says:

      Regarding the constitution, I wonder if anybody here is up to speed with this;

      https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/jt/jtdcc.htm

      Interestingly, this sets out those PARTS OF LEGISLATION WHICH SHOULD NOT BE MODIFIED, since the are regarded a forming the fundamental backbone of the pretendy UK ‘constitution’.

      In the introduction at the start of the document, it says,

      “13. The list of possible constitutional issues raised by the draft Bill is extensive. Clause 21(3)(j) allows regulations to disapply or modify any Act of Parliament. In the wrong hands, this could be used to remove all past legislation which makes up the statutory patchwork of the British constitution. We believe that the Bill should list a number of fundamental parts of constitutional law that should be exempt from modification or disapplication. We suggest that regulations under Part 2 should be published from time to time and be subject to the same safeguards as primary legislation.”

      Does anybody know the current legal status of this document, since it explicitly rules out changes to the Scotland Act of 1998, and the two acts of union (one from Scotland, one from England). These are in paragraphs 183-186

      How does that document, relate to the undemocratic theft of Scotland’s devolved powers by the House of Lords??

    99. Confused says:

      fuck spamhead-bentball-dropping-public-schoolboy-headbutting (since we lost … had we won … ?)

      seriousness mode on – all the shite about venezuela is getting on my tits – esp. from the bbc and guardian and C4

      here’s a good one from hudson – the “refutations” of socialism and chavez and maduro etc, are not so clear cut as they are portrayed

      http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/51074.htm

      the empire never forgives defiance, its all you need to know

      lots of good info, one small point – V never had a mixed economy, Scotland has – but one big problem was NO REFINERIES – fucksake … I see Jim Ratcliffe as a potential problem in our future, not merely some norvern lad, alf tupper who got lucky – this twat could fuck us – maybe we need to leave the head of his prize whippet under his duvet, just in case

      found some old pdfs from REV on the hard drive – the wee blue and wee black books – refreshing reread, also … depressing (- I wonder what the proprietor is cooking up – I just hope its not a HOWTO guide for beating Centipede)

      as for the QT thing with “Billy McBoyne-WilliamAndMaryGloriousRevolution” – I was thinking, 4 appearances looks like he is UNDER CONTRACT – HUN on the speed-dial … something tells me this guy – just might – be … on benefits … has he done any work since his last signing on, has he earned any money … etc – it might be a tall tale but I heard the shite punk group the “anti nowhere league” had their benefits cut because they were spotted on Top of the Pops … lets make Billys next interview one to remember

    100. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      O/T JUst for info

      The Amanpour programme on CNN yesterday screened an interview with Nicola Sturgeon while she was in NYC in which (among other things) she was asked about the timing of indyref2. She was mentioned more than once as “head of state”, so she got full respect.

      What a change from the state broadcaster.

      It’s not on the website, yet anyway.

      There is another article of some interest there, though, entitled “UK pulls plug on no-deal Brexit ferry company with no ferries”

      https://edition.cnn.com/2019/02/09/uk/uk-brexit-ferry-contract-gbr-intl/index.html

      Looks like the takeway business wasn’t the right template for that plan after all. =roll eyes=

      Another fine mess…

    101. Iain mhor says:

      As @Daisy Walker and others point out frequently, *Brexit is about finance and tax. Nothing more.
      Kicking the can and negotiations are purely about regulatory alignment. The UK as an unregulated entity so close to mainland Europe geographically and with close ties to it, would be a destabilising agent on the EU economy.
      Now the EU cannot have this, or rather, they cannot give an unregulated market a further advantage by gifting preferrential trade terms. That’s just suicidal for an economy. Further, there is the post-Brexit landscape to consider – there is no point in the UK agreeing to stay in regulatory alignment with the EU, with advantageous trade/CU deals and then to be able to deregulate later after a transition and keep the good bits. That would require a total renegotiation of terms again

      The problem is factions. There is a small but potent cabal which both seeks deregulation and does not wish to be subject to any EU regulation during a transition period. They have the finger on the trigger and want to go balls out at the end of March. If their fingers don’t slip on the slevers anyway.

      Regulatory alignment of the finance sector is no black magic, it is merely a trade deal the same as any other commodity. These deals are what is responsible for the can kicking. The GFA and Customs unions are a red herring. They are a fallout of failure to agree regulatory alignment. Non regulatory alignment must lead to a hard border because there can be no Customs Unon or trade deal. The EU absolutely will not give the UK all the cake and a cherry on top so they can walk all over the EU economy and destabilise it. Naturally that is exactly the MO of the UK’s foreign policy.

      So, in summary – There can be any kind of trade deal Brexit you like, but there must be financial regulatory alignment. No alignment = hardest of hard or no deal Brexits and a hatd Irish border.
      In case anyone thinks the “Finance sector” in the UK is of one mind for a deregulated.free-for-all, that is not the case. The majority of the sector, like the majority globally are moving towards alignment. It is the smoothest way to do business and move the money if they are all on the same hymnn sheet, but most importantly to try and avoid the perpetual global financial crisis which deregulated markets bring. But as ever in Tory UK, there are powerful cabals who will watch the world burn if it makes them a quick buck, they favour a total wild-west and deil tak the hindmost.

      If you need any confirmation of that: ‘Theresa May and the Chancellor have warned that if the UK could not secure a good future trade deal with the EU it had “another option”. The UK could conceivably walk away from a “bad deal” and compete with the bloc as a Singapore-style low-regulation, low-tax economy”

      https://www.investmentweek.co.uk/investment-week/news/3017883/uk-to-develop-distinct-regulatory-framework-post-brexit

      The chair of the Financial Conduct Authority (FCA) Charles Randell said last year:
      (International regulation).. is not a “zero sum game”, announcing that the FCA will “redouble” engagement with EU colleagues after Brexit in order to keep its place at the top of global regulation.
      He added: “The FCA does not see the UK’s withdrawal from the European Union as an opportunity to join a race to the bottom in regulatory standards – quite the contrary.
      After each crisis, we bring in a weight of new regulation. We push it up the hill to implementation. And then we deregulate. And then a new crisis starts the process all over again.”

      http://moneyage.co.uk/Regulator-rejects-calls-for-financial-services-deregulation-post-Brexit.php

      *Brexit – phrase employed as a truncated form of “United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland” in case I too am hauled over the coals.

    102. Nana says:

      @Robert J. Sutherland

      I posted the interview with Nicola on the previous thread at 2.23 this afternoon.

    103. K1 says:

      The link with Mary Lou McDonald’s press conference was posted just over an hour ago by https://twitter.com/OxfordDiplomat/status/1094285493494341633

      Whether it’s 3 days later or an hour ago…no one this side of the border saw this press conference before today on here.

    104. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      galamcennalath @ 13:40,
      Meg merrilees @ 18:03,
      (and following)

      (Just catching up again)

      This is a possible scenario that has worried me somewhat before, since Corbyn is a closet Leaver, and it’s an outcome that looks more likely after Corbyn’s lone conference-unsanctioned initiative to collaborate with May.

      However, as Labour gets more involved in Brexit, it is increasingly threatened by a split in its own ranks just like the Tories.

      What a guddle of shady actors. They are sowing what soon enough they will have to reap, and it will be a harvest of pain.

      It may still not be obvious to some folks while we’re enmeshed in the fog of it all, but this business is going into the history books and the annals of ignominy as an utter humiliation of the UK, the like of which has never before been seen. We need to get as wise as Ireland and get out before we’re implicated. A far brighter future awaits.

    105. Dr Jim says:

      The people voted, we must respect the will of the people, democracy democracy democracy 17 million people voted leave blah blah blah

      There are 65 million people in the British Isles if you want to count it that way as a whole so what happened to the rest of the voters then who couldnae be bothered turnin up or were on holiday or were drunk or just thought Brexit? that’ll never happen and didn’t even consider voting

      Mibbees they’d like a wee shotty votin now eh

    106. Capella says:

      @ K1 – I saw it a couple of days ago. I forget who posted the link. Still. It’s a powerful statement and well worth posting on this thread.

    107. Until rugby is taught and played by working class kids in our thousands of pleb schools, the Gavins and the Ross’s and the Frasers will always be also rans.
      But that will never happen.
      It’s a Elite sport and that’s the way the like it.

    108. Dan says:

      Following on from tail end of Robert Peffers post @ 18.49

      Link to article by Stuart McHardy in the National from September last year which includes a map showing occupation of Scotland between 1746-55.

      http://archive.is/eO3Pe

      One ponders that with the Union side requiring such extensive oversight and control of Scotland by military force, “Better Together” probably wasn’t a term many Scots would have chosen to describe the Union.

    109. CameronB Brodie says:

      Robert Peffers
      I stand corrected though that doesn’t undo the fact that the British constitution and the Treaty of Union are separate items. Neither does it undo the fact that it is the Establishment’s failure to take account of this duel nature of British constitutional law that will ultimately undo the yoonyawn, IMHO.

      If only the British political class had seen fit to creating some mechanism of power sharing that reflects the notionally voluntary arrangement of multi-national cooperation, i.e. yoonyawn. I suppose that would have conflicted with the oath of allegiance that British parliamentarians pledge to the Crown, so that means Scotland’s residents can whistle for their human rights to be protected by Westminster.

      #DissolveTheUnion

    110. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      I played rugby as a left-wing-threequarter, in the 1st year Kirkton High School team in 1964/65. Even scored a try or three.

      Kirkton High’s catchment area was predominantly working class, covering the schemes of Kirkton, West Kirkton, Blackshade/Ardler and St Mary’s, along with the more refined village of Downfield.

      The perception of rugby being for “toffs” is just that – a perception.

    111. Daisy Walker says:

      Re Corbyn’s compromise and the possibility of a CU type deal.

      Full CU membership, as apposed to Terrrible May’s bodged deal – with cobbled together alignment (and UK laws adjudicating)- would be quicker and easier to agree to, however, CU membership means the European Court of Justice has full adjudication over disputes… and you cannot just drop bits of legislation you don’t like – like the Tax Haven legislation for example.

      If the whole Brexshit debauchle is about protecting the 1% elite’s centuries of ill gotten gains from asset striping entire continents during the British Raj – from the ravages of tax haven legislation – then it will not fly.

      Good effort by Corbyn though, makes it look like labour care, and are trying, and in reality, kicks the can a bit further down the road, on behalf of the establishment. The left cheek of the same arse, playing the two step nicely.

    112. Wee Alex says:

      O/T

      What happens to the EU footballers post 29th March with no deal

    113. CameronB Brodie says:

      Iain mhor
      Brexit might be about finance and tax but it’s also about the integrity of English culture. Those who support a hard Brexit tend to be non-practicing Anglicans who identify as English only. Brexit is as much about cultural chauvinism as it is about filthy lucre.

    114. Capella says:

      @ Dan @ BDTT – my husband played rugby at Forrester Secondary in Edinburgh in the 60s – a mainly working class intake – Sighthill, Broomhouse and Corstorphine. At least one school in Aberdeenshire plays rugby. Aberdeenshire is relatively leafy but not elite. It is probably up to the Head Teacher and PE teacher to decide which sport is played.

      Many girls in the 80s took up aerobic dancing and other types of dance. John Major in the 90s insisted that schools stop these new fangled exercise regimes and impose team sports. Character building.

    115. Rock says:

      Brian Powell says:
      9 February, 2019 at 2:38 pm

      “We gave the leadership 125,000 members, 56MPs, initially, and more Councillors than ever before.

      Nothing happened. We didn’t do that just to get good MPS, MSPs and Councillors, the purpose went beyond that. The leadership didn’t appear to understand that.”

      Well said.

    116. Essexexile says:

      Wee Alex @8.15pm
      I expect they’ll continue to show up the glaring technical deficiencies of the home grown players.
      And get paid a fookin fortune for it.
      Seriously though, they have employment contracts with clear end dates, Brexit won’t affect them.
      New players or contract extensions though, that’s another matter. But as ever, money talks and there’s no lack of it in football.

    117. Petra says:

      Mary-Lou McDonald speech:

      @ Shinty says 7 February, 2019 at 8:05 am ….

      https://twitter.com/PhantomPower14/status/1093302318345400320

      ……………..

      @ Petra says 7 February, 2019 at 9:21 am ….

      @ Shinty at 8:05am …….. “Mary-Lou MacDonald.”

      A MUST listen to. That’s Big T telt. A great speech from Mary-Lou. If she, May, carries on the way she’s doing they”ll be calling for a referendum to unite Ireland. The days of Westminster calling the shots for Ireland are over. Next up Nicola.

      ……………………………….

      @ Petra says 7 February, 2019 at 8:21 pm

      Ha ha ha, Sarah! Who knows how this will all pan out?

      Meanwhile, if you haven’t heard it already, it’s well worth listening to Mary-Lou MacDonald, Leader of Sinn Fein, telling Big T where to go. Great scriptless speech.

      https://mobile.twitter.com/PhantomPower14/status/1093302318345400320

      …………………………..

      @ Petra says 8 February, 2019 at 12:30 pm …..

      “We see you” here in Scotland and in Ireland, north and south, too no doubt.

      We see that the BBC has been doing a wee bit of “editing” AGAIN. This time of the Mary-Lou McDonald speech. Note no mention of them planning to crash out of the UK. Don’t want to upset the good folks of Engerland now do we? Give the Scots ideas?

      Phantom Power giving the BBC a right showing up! Does anyone have any idea of how many people are actually involved in running Phantom Power?

      ………………………..

      BBC ……. 42 seconds.

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-northern-ireland-politics-47149178/brexit-may-has-no-plan-or-credibility-says-sinn-

      ……………..

      Phantom Power ……. 2 minutes 16 seconds.

      https://mobile.twitter.com/PhantomPower14/status/1093302318345400320

    118. Colin Alexander says:

      I can see why a YES vote could be more attractive to some previous No voters – to stop Scotland leaving the EU. Thus preventing change to our laws and trading enviroment.

      I don’t see how AFTER Scotland has left the EU, that YES becomes a more attractive option, except in the minds of Indyref romantics.

      Especially as the UK state will change the Scots Law to make fastrack EU/ EEA/ EFTA membership impossible.

      The voting record for Scotland is:

      2014 Leave UK Union: No.

      2016 Leave European Union: No.

      The choice AFTER leaving the EU would be UK Union or complete independence for x number of years.

      I don’t see further change to complete independence being an attractive choice for many No voters who tend to go for the status quo each time.

      I fear if Scotland’s EU-exit happens first and indyref does not happen extremely quickly, support for independence will never reach over 50% for a long long time.

    119. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      CameronB Brodie @ 19:57:

      that doesn’t undo the fact that the British constitution and the Treaty of Union are separate items.

      Intruding on this one, I couldn’t disagree more, Cam. The “UK Constitution” may be a largely unwritten ramshackle affair, but the Treaty of Union 1707 is the founding document of the current United Kingdom. Its non-transient provisions, eg. in matters of Law, continue to inform the conduct of the UK to this day, and the UKGov has to tread very warily in that respect, despite all its typical bluff. (Hence eg. May’s “now is not the time” dodge; she cannot issue a blank refusal.)

      So you just cannot separate these two things, the one is fundamentally bound up with the other. If we had a proper US-style UK Supreme Court instead of this miserable simulacrum, the Treaty would be referenced as a fundamental source on every question relating to the relationship between Scotland and the rest of the UK.

      Article IV, for example, explicitly forbids any differential in trade within the Union. May’s proposed NI backstop is “special treatment”, so if it ever had to be invoked, it would immediately violate the 1707 Treaty, and unlike in the past, it is very likely to be challenged in now. CU+SM is OK, Remain is OK, no-deal is OK (but violates the GFA) and otherwise the Treaty is null-and-void and we are off.

      Art.50 prohibits leaving under unconstitutional terms, so the Treaty matters for Brexit.

      So it really does matter. It’s a potential ticking constitutional timebomb.

    120. CameronB Brodie says:

      Robert J. Sutherland
      Yes, the Treaty of Union 1707 is the founding document of the current United Kingdom but it is not the British constitution, which is essentially that of England.

      Colin Kidd: The Union in British Constitutional Theory

      The Anglo-British Interpretation

      After all, the Union of 1707 which joined the Kingdoms of England and Scotland would appear to the naïve observer to be in some way constitutive of the British state which it created. Yet, if one turns to the writings of jurists and historians on the British constitution, one will often be hard pressed to find more than the occasional mention of the Union of 1707. To all intents and purposes the dominant Anglo-British tradition of constitutional interpretation – whose most influential exponent was A.V. Dicey – treats the British constitution as a mere continuation of the pre-1707 English constitution.

      According to Dicey the Act of Union with Scotland enjoyed no greater status in British constitutional law than the humble Dentists Act 1878, for there was no body of fundamental law entrenched at the base of the British constitution. Whatever laws parliament passed, he argued, were subject to repeal by subsequent parliaments.

    121. jezza says:

      Every road Treeza tries to kick the can down is turning out to be a dead end.

    122. yesindyref2 says:

      @BDTT
      Indeed, it seems to be a perception of those who go around with their eyes shut and don’t see rugby posts in school playing fields. But more than that there are “Schools of Rugby”, meaning every school has access to rugby for those who want, and these get cashback from the Scottish Government (SNP) proceeds of crime. There are also “conferences” with a fair few levels.

      It’s another myth – rugby for the rich. Not so at all.

    123. Colin Alexander says:

      Robert J. Sutherland

      Nice post. One issue though, how does violating the Treaty mean we are off?

      The Treaty has been violated / amended many times and we’re still England’s colony.

      Examples include: independence of Presbyterian Church: UK Parliament legislated about it and it led to The Disruption.

      Independence of Scots Law: cases then judged by the Lords then Supreme Court in London.

      It’s an international treaty. Violating the Treaty does not end it. It’s only ended when either party says it’s ended.

    124. yesindyref2 says:

      As well as the (normal academy) school my kids went to here on the West coast having rugby, an alternative (poorer kids) also had rugby, and from vague memory for some odd reason, Kirckcaldy High School had rugby 50 years ago – not the richest dude part of Fife.

      What a load of old cobblers.

    125. ben madigan says:

      hate to be the bearer of bad news about this threat to the Scottish Whisky Industry

      https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/may/20/secret-brexit-deal-scotch-whisky-threat-us-imports?

    126. Liz g says:

      Cameron B Brodie @ 9.22
      Dicey isn’t the ultimate authority though!!
      There were a few bodies of work around that time… it’s just that what Dicey wrote the Westminster Parliament likes the best or rather it suited them to align with his work.

    127. CameronB Brodie says:

      Liz g
      You appear better informed then myself. Nice one. 😉

    128. robbo says:

      That little runt M Gove- fecking little twat he is.

      Gonnae slap that fecking butchers apron awe ever oor stuff.

      https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dy_tzP8XcAAbDVF.jpg:large

    129. yesindyref2 says:

      Jesus, the Scottish Cringe is strong in this one. From The National:

      “Six Nations: Scotland out-smarted and out-played by Ireland”.

      What a load of cobblers, it was handling errors the difference.

    130. Thepnr says:

      @robbo

      Another own goal that won’t go down well with Scottish farmers even if they were Tory voters they might not be any longer if a No deal Brexit comes to pass.

      The ordinary punter as well isn’t going to be too chuffed either.

    131. Ealasaid says:

      @ Liz g
      I am no expert but I agree with your interpretation from the link CBB gave. After the Union the English establishment, in line with its empire building past, considered that it had ‘caught’ Scotland and would hold her fast. They did this through economic means and partly by their army at times. Therefore they have often acted as if the Treaty of Union did not exist as there has not been any serious challenge to how they were treating Scotland.

      However, just because they have got away with it for so long does not mean that it is the LAW. The Scottish Government recently using Scottish Law in the EU and it being respected in the ECJ has blown a big hole in their Scottish ‘pretendy law’ theme. They had assumed they could easily overturn any threat. Now there is panic or the House of Lords would not be trying to write and NEW Treaty of Union that would be accepted.

      When I was less than double figures of age, my siblings and myself were addressed by my very serious grandfather who told us that if we ever had the chance for Independence in our lifetimes that we should look to the Law Courts for that was where it could be won.

    132. Socrates MacSporran says:

      yesindyref2 @ 10.42pm

      That National piece was written by a “sports writer” whose ability to get his stuff published by newspapers far-exceeds his actual writing ability.

    133. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      CameronB Brodie @ 21:22,

      It’s undoubtedly true that through the years since 1707 the English Establishment has frequently made the careless assumption that it is “sole proprietor” of the UK Constitution, and Scotland has too often lamely deferred for the sake of peace-and-quiet, but there have always been limits and the UKGov has always taken care, while carefully keeping schtum, not to push its luck too far, since it could ultimately provoke the latent crisis that has always been there, lying in wait.

      It just needs a dash of arrogance too far by UKGov, some critical tripwire blundered through, to expose the old fix, rip open the crack heretofore hidden under its ancient papering, and bingo!

      I can’t think of anything more likely to do so than the truly historic shambolic f-up that is Brexit. We just have to be ready and willing for once to stand up for ourselves and use it.

      It is the UK Constitution, dammit, England is most definitely not the sole owner, and these are changed days.

    134. yesindyref2 says:

      It makes you think and the eyes water.

      Indy Ref 1 – Gavin and Scott Hastings, not having played for 17 or more years, came out against Indy with an assorted 16 others in Brian Wilson supplied Harris tweed jackets who I can’t remember in a staged photoshoot plastered all over the totally neutral and impartial MSM. Result – rugby is a toff’s game and they are against Indy. Bollocks.

      Some solicitors come out against Indy, photoshoot, p[lasterd all over the media. The Law is corrupt and against Indy. Bollocks. Same with academics together. A couple of weeks later letters signed by 100 of each supporting Indy get a little bit of page 26 paper edition coverage and an online article in the bottom half of the main page.

      What do us totally stupid, gullible and taken for fools Indy supporters believe? Rugby, Law, Academcis, Teachers, Doctors, Accountants, Farmers, Fishers, the army nacy and air force, are all against YES.

      By my reckoning 3,256 people voted YES the rest voted NO.

      Oh, well that’s not right is it? 1.6 million people voted YES.

      And the sad thing is even to this day we’re still taken in by the disinformation, misinformation, agents provocatuers rubbing their little hooves with glee as they cause division division division, because we’re all thick as two short planks put together by carpenters who are probably also against Indy given half a lying provocateur troll to gullible audience chance.

      We’re so thick and stupid we deeserve another NO vote.

    135. yesindyref2 says:

      @Socrates MacSporran
      I was thinking of what you might say when I made my posting 🙂

    136. Iain mhor says:

      @Cameron B Brodie 8:16pm

      Ok fair point, there is that aspect.
      I was on the more immediate focus, the question “what do you want out of this now you have it?” Is being answered emphatically with “Make a shit ton of money and make sure no-one stands in our way” The EU will happily trade and bend over to accomodate the UK, but the caveat of regulatory alignment of the finance industry/tax must stand. The talks are stalled on that caveat, therefore that must be the overriding ideology. The very threat to ‘go Singapore on your sorry asses’ seems to back that up.

    137. Lenny Hartley says:

      I went to Arran High and we got Rugby there, on Arran we have seven Golf Courses and until fairly recently we had a Rugby team which played on Mainland Leagues, Both sports on Arran are very much working class. Im not sure but I think that the Valleys of Wales with all there Coal Mines would have been working class as well. I used to go to Ireland fairly often on Holiday, went to a few district games, going by the bog irish spoken by most of the players it was a working class game there as well. I am allowed to say bog Irish as I am in the process of applying for an Irish Passport 🙂

    138. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      CameronB Brodie @ 22:25,

      Liz is dead right. Dicey is just part of the papering-over.

      You can always tell when someone is trying it on, constitutionally speaking, when they refer to “The Act of Union”. It’s a dead give-away, because it’s a purely Anglo-centric notion (or indeed a Scottish-only one, in its turn).

      The fundamental document is the Treaty of Union, an international treaty between two equal sovereign nations that fundamentally remains in force, and inherently limits English hegemony, whatever Dicey et al may claim.

    139. At comprehensive schools if you were no good at football you tried for the rugby,

      at grammar and fee paying schools if you were no good at the rugby you tried for the hockey,

      to say all rugby fans are red trousered white gammons with their range rover,brown/black labrador,blond wife, have a mistress,kids called Archie or Sandy or Isla,addicted to cocaine is a false stereotype,

      some of them don`t have red trousers.

    140. Regi says:

      It’s all very well saying that Scotland is sovereign and we don’t need permission blah blah blah but can anyone actually envisage the SNP making such a bold step? I can’t.

      This policy of just wait and see how big this disaster is going to be then pounce is tiresome, and it might be too late by then anyway. The SNP are paralysed with caution, playing by westminster’s rules is blatantly futile and achieves nothing whilst Rome is starting to burn all around us.

    141. CameronB Brodie says:

      Robert J. Sutherland
      I knew we were on the same page but perhaps reading different nuance into our interpretations. I agree, England has no legal authority over Scotland but three centuries of acting as if it does has encouraged the very arrogance needed to reach thpnr (see Brexit). 😉

    142. CameronB Brodie says:

      Iain mhor
      I’m often been stumped by suggestions of Singapore as an example for Scotland to aspire to. 😉

    143. Breeks says:

      How I dearly wish that Mary Lou MacDonald was speaking for Scotland.

    144. geeo says:

      @wee alex8.15pm

      Re: footballers from EU v ukexit (happy robert?)

      For wealthy clubs, nothing, they easily earn enough to stay as they are.

      For small clubs, like say in Scotland, they may have a big problem.

    145. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      me @ 23:27,

      If it’s not banging on about it just a tad too much, it’s self-evident that, legally speaking, by passing its Act of Union, the English Parliament in fact signed away its own exclusive sovereignty. And by its own theory, it had that right!

      Now isn’t that a cute re-framing of the situation? (even if I say so myself). =laugh=

    146. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Famous15 at 12.25 pm

      Exactly. The notion that the EU will seek to do other than allow Scotland to quickly re-enter the EU (oe stay in it)is utterly absurd. We have most of the oil and gas,most ofthe fishing grounds and a strategic command of the North Atlantic.

    147. Legerwood says:

      I saw this earlier this evening and from a quick look at the posts on this thread it does not seem to have been mentioned so I shall leave it here:
      https://www.thenational.scot/news/17421418.bbc-forced-to-apologise-over-snp-logo-gaffe-on-newsnight/

      Robert J Sutherland @ 11.27 PM

      Very well said about the references to the Act of Union when it should always be The Treaty of Union.

      Referring to the Act of Union when it should be The Treaty of Union is very much an English nomenclature which serves not only to reduce the importance of what is a Treaty in International law but to suggest, by the use of the singular ‘Act’, that only one Parliament was involved and that by implication would be the English Parliament.

    148. Famous15 says:

      @Sutherland 1127 pm

      The late Professor McCormick led us to have a healthy cautious respect for the Whig jurist AVDicey. Dicey only knew English Law and Scots Law was clearly beyond his intellectual vision.

      The TREATY of Union is a bulwark of the unstable British Constitution. International Law will apply when needed and then the only question is what represents the will of the sovereign Scottish people. Majority in Holyrood,majority of Westminster MP’s favoured by Mrs Thatcher or a referendum either agreed with Westminster or an “advisory “ referendum initiated by the Holyrood Parliament are all choices which would clearly satisfy UN rules. (BTW UDI is for “illegal” regimes and has no place in Scottish jurism)

    149. yesindyref2 says:

      Interesting points about the Treaty of Union. The very first anti-indy paper by the UK Gov had this from its two professors working to the specific remit to prove the rUK was the CcUK (Continuing UK):

      https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/79408/Annex_A.pdf

      Page 75 – “Whether the Treaty of Union sounds in international law”

      40.
      Despite its name, it is not obvious that the Treaty of Union did and does sound as a treaty in international law. Certainly there was a negotiation between England and Scotland, and it was subsequently referred to as a ‘treaty’ in both Acts of Union. But the Scottish Parliament, in enacting the Scottish Act of Union, then unilaterally amended its provisions. It is therefore unlikely that it constituted a treaty in itself.

      So this was going to be their angle of attack, presumably the line their Advocate would take in Court, and I think it was Aileen McHarg on her blog and Scottish Constitutional Future Forum who said it was unusual to publish legal advice, and pretty daft to boot.

      So yes, it’s an important distinction.

    150. yesindyref2 says:

      All the other UK Gov anti-Indy “white papers” followed that and presume it (cUK), hence currency, and all the rest of it. The fact it was so vital for the UK Gov to dismiss the Treaty of Union, means it’s so vital for us. The enemy often reveals its worst weakness and its deepest fear.

    151. CameronB Brodie says:

      Constitutional theory was my least favourite subject, back in the day. The British constitution is the preserve of medievalists, England needs a written constitution just as much as Scotland (see homeliness in England, for example).

      A codified constitution for the (?Rest of the) United Kingdom

      Scotland’s senior judge…
      The Treaty [of Union 1707] and associated legislation … contain some clauses which expressly reserve powers of subsequent modification; and other clauses which either contain no such power, or emphatically exclude subsequent alteration by declaration that the provision shall be fundamental and unalterable in all times coming … I have never been able to understand how it is possible to reconcile with elementary canons of [statutory] construction, the adoption by the English constitutional theorists of the same attitude to these markedly different types of provision.

      https://www.politics.ox.ac.uk/materials/podcasts/301113_Engagement_Theory/mclean_politicaltheoryandtheukconstitution.pdf

      United Kingdom: Parliamentary sovereignty under pressure
      1. the unreality of parlimentary soveriegnty

      https://academic.oup.com/icon/article-pdf/2/3/545/2363916/020545.pdf

      ENTRENCHMENT IN THE UNITED KINGDOM:
      A written constitution by default?

      https://consoc.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/entrenchment-text-pdf-A4.pdf

    152. yesindyref2 says:

      Even then the UK Gov was crafty (read devious). In the same document its agents made that startling and completely contentious assertion, that the rUK was the cUK, it also misdirected anger by saying that Scotland was extinguished by being made part of an enlarged England. Which is what just about everyone concentrated on: “How dare they, how very dare they”.

      Well basically who cares, it’s just an assertion, a rather stupid one in fact. But it meant they largely got away with asserting themselves as the owners of the UK, as the cUK, the big bullies, fait accompli, basically. Which does NOT reflect the full legal alternatives: Dissolution, Separation, Secession.

    153. CameronB Brodie says:

      re. the new constitution that the Lords are cooking up, here’s some more on constitutional entrenchment and “unamendability”.

      Amending ‘Unamendable’ Provisions
      https://constitutional-change.com/amending-unamendable-provisions/

    154. K1 says:

      ‘Petra says:
      9 February, 2019 at 8:44 pm
      Mary-Lou McDonald speech:

      @ Shinty says 7 February, 2019 at 8:05 am ….

      https://twitter.com/PhantomPower14/status/1093302318345400320

      ……………..

      @ Petra says 7 February, 2019 at 9:21 am ….

      @ Shinty at 8:05am …….. “Mary-Lou MacDonald.”

      A MUST listen to. That’s Big T telt. A great speech from Mary-Lou. If she, May, carries on the way she’s doing they”ll be calling for a referendum to unite Ireland. The days of Westminster calling the shots for Ireland are over. Next up Nicola.

      ……………………………….

      @ Petra says 7 February, 2019 at 8:21 pm

      Ha ha ha, Sarah! Who knows how this will all pan out?

      Meanwhile, if you haven’t heard it already, it’s well worth listening to Mary-Lou MacDonald, Leader of Sinn Fein, telling Big T where to go. Great scriptless speech.

      https://mobile.twitter.com/PhantomPower14/status/1093302318345400320

      …………………………..

      @ Petra says 8 February, 2019 at 12:30 pm …..

      “We see you” here in Scotland and in Ireland, north and south, too no doubt.

      We see that the BBC has been doing a wee bit of “editing” AGAIN. This time of the Mary-Lou McDonald speech. Note no mention of them planning to crash out of the UK. Don’t want to upset the good folks of Engerland now do we? Give the Scots ideas?

      Phantom Power giving the BBC a right showing up! Does anyone have any idea of how many people are actually involved in running Phantom Power?

      ………………………..

      BBC ……. 42 seconds.

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-northern-ireland-politics-47149178/brexit-may-has-no-plan-or-credibility-says-sinn-

      ……………..

      Phantom Power ……. 2 minutes 16 seconds.

      https://mobile.twitter.com/PhantomPower14/status/1093302318345400320?

      ———————————————-

      `Is there some sort of competition going on about ‘when’ links are posted on Wings?

      If I don’t see a link on a previous thread, then post to that link that was ‘new’ to me, that I had just seen for the ‘first’ time through a twitter feed, onto a different thread on Wings, do you think that searching and taking the time to prove that it had been posted before is making ‘some point’?

      Does it matter that much whether others who didn’t or even did see it ‘2’ days before either see it or see it again?

      I corrected the part about the press conference happening within the last hour after ‘you’ posted your ‘3 days ago’ comment. I then made an ‘assertion’ that wasn’t correct, that this was the first time it had been seen this side of the border, is this the point your are attempting to make here?

      Are you ‘catching me out’? You ‘asserted’ that the link/s where posted ‘3 days ago’ but it was only 2 days? Should we all start policing each other for our ‘mistaken’ assertions or not remembering ‘exactly’ when links where posted too?

      Given that links are repeatedly posted about many events on Wings, sometimes from years before. I just simply don’t understand what on earth point you think you are making by taking this kind of time out of your day to make this mysterious non point?

      Do you?

      I mean Capella said the same thing that I think your are ‘trying’ to say here.

      ‘ Capella says:
      9 February, 2019 at 7:41 pm
      @ K1 – I saw it a couple of days ago. I forget who posted the link. Still. It’s a powerful statement and well worth posting on this thread’

      The only difference is Capella was kind enough not to look for a way to somehow ‘prove’ something that for the life of me is beyond comprehension, for posting a fucking link that had been posted on here before.

      End.

    155. yesindyref2 says:

      Not enough attention was paid to the UK anti-Independence “White Papers”. In them they put their case for why Scotland was shit and couldn’t survive on our poor unprotected lonesome pine kind of thing. But the thing is exactly that, they put things they thought were important. So we should question every single bit of them.

      If, for instance, I was in a pub or walking along the street and someone said to me “England invented cricket”, I’d be inclined to say “Oh well then, fine, I expect they did”.

      BUT if they put that in an anti-indy white paper I’d wonder WHY they thought it was important. Could it be that our own cricket team was getting some surprising successes and they wanted to cause division “cricket is a stupid game”? Or could it be that some shepherd on the hills above Pitlochry, seeing a dog worrying his (or her) sheep, picked up a stone and bit of wood and scored a perfect six on the dog who ran away with its tail between its legs? Hence it being yet another Scottish invention?

    156. CameronB Brodie says:

      K1
      I thought Petra was lampooning a certain contributor. There you go, we all see the world differently. 🙂

      To Each His Own: What is the Real Meaning of Rashomon Effect?
      https://psychologenie.com/what-is-meaning-of-rashomon-effect

    157. CameronB Brodie says:

      yesindyref2
      Reality is normative and defined by narrative. Simple guide, if it comes from Whitehall, it is designed to maintain Scotland’s limited access to democracy. HMG does not respect the doctrine of international law nor support the principle of universal human rights. It’s a cultural ting.

    158. K1 says:

      Given that P’s directly talking about a link that I posted and which I claimed had just occurred in real time as I had just taken it from a twitter feed who had just posted it Cameron, I’m not at all sure where you are coming from on this.

      You would according to the Rahsomon Effect have to give your version of your interpretation as I did mine, which you haven’t in any detail, so the effect (to my mind(interpretation) would only be relevant if all parties involved in the interpretation related their ‘actual’ interpretation of ‘said’ event. 😉

    159. CameronB Brodie says:

      K1
      I’m a team player so the principle of not clogging your own teammate runs deep in me. That has a significant influence on my behavioral attitude, so subsequently my perception of events. It’s a bio-cultural ting. 🙂

    160. Ghillie says:

      Beeb beeb 🙂

      Remember, it never goes well for Wylie May.

    161. Cactus says:

      Meep Meep!
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hd755bbc8uw

      Listen, you can hear it all around…

      Indy, it’s happening!

      😉

    162. Cactus says:

      Would you like to travel through time and space space space…

      Related:

      https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-last-leap/
      https://wingsoverscotland.com/give-em-enough-rope/
      https://wingsoverscotland.com/bull-bridge/

      Regards to FreddieThreepwood 🙂

    163. yesindyref2 says:

      Interesting one:

      https://twitter.com/MammothWhale/status/1094196197546430465

      Two economic experts, @wbmosler and @billy_blog, will be travelling to Scotland to explain how independence opens up many opportunities with a Job Guarantee and our own currency. They’ll also be joining @thecommongreen, head of policy and research for Common Weal.

      I hope some senior SNP attend in force.

    164. yesindyref2 says:

      Or even better, arrange their own private presentation and meeting.

    165. ScottieDog says:

      @yesindyref2
      “I hope some senior SNP attend in force”

      I think there will be.

    166. yesindyref2 says:

      @ScottieDog
      Good. We had Andrew Wilson with the Growth Commission sterlingisation for quite a time, neo-lib etc. Fine. But it needs a good look at MMT, own currency, jobs guarantee (100%) and – hopefully – adopt that. Side by side, progressively, of course 🙂

    167. yesindyref2 says:

      @ScottieDog
      I notice this comment from that feed:

      We need to create a video game simulation like Simcity that allows for MMT principled investments & deflationary functions, @wbmosler. This should be a thing. People could create their own “Nations” with training guidelines (tips) of good fiscal policy for general welfare growth.

      I was saying way back, 2012 and before, that what we need is a full financial model of Scotland, and with online availability to play with (our own) copy of it. The first part of that was (mostly) around since the 70s, I may have worked on it but I’m saying nothing.

    168. ScottieDog says:

      @yesindyref
      I think a few of the guys are working on some modelling software. There is alot going on behind the scenes.

      Yes the GC and andrew wilson seem to have had top billing. Also GMK in the national completely misrepresents mmt – a right to reply to this has been sought – but none has been forthcoming…

    169. yesindyref2 says:

      @ScottieDog
      I just quickly scanned an article from him on the BfS website, and he seems to take his definition from Wikipedia, and he translates Stephanie Kelton when she says “When it comes to the British Government money is no object” thus: “No object means: “The availability of money is not taken into account and therefore presents no obstacle to spending.”” and talks otherwise only of Richard Murphy. Oh well.

      His other arguments there are as wacky as in his The National article e.g. “So, what is to stop bad leaders spending trillions on white elephant projects just to get elected, triggering huge environmental costs?”. You what?

      http://www.businessforscotland.com/modern-monetary-theory-is-no-panacea-for-the-problems-of-our-broken-economic-system/

      It would be kind of like me arguing that national defence is useless because some madman might press the nuclear button and obliterate all of us, so we might as well surrender even before being asked. I’ll pass on that, thanks.

      It would actually be quite difficult to reply because he makes no sense at all, basically. Not one of his best attempts.

    170. Nana says:

      Links

      https://www.alynsmith.eu/scotland_in_europe_update_8th_february_2019

      On the Full Scottish at 12:00 midday, Anne McLaughlin will be joined by guests James Dornan and @Peckisha for in depth discussion of the stories in the news, on Scotland’s own weekly current affairs programme. https://www.broadcastingscotland.scot/

      https://randompublicjournal.com/2019/02/07/the-bbc-troll-station/

      https://thoughtcontrolscotland.com/2019/02/09/bad-news-for-lib-dems-as-all-of-scottish-prisons-revealed-to-have-complete-health-teams/

    171. Nana says:

      Police Scotland sets up Brexit emergency planning centre
      http://archive.vn/IWRcI

      Liam Fox and his team are trying to strong-arm poor nations into harsh trade deals, using the threat of no deal on their exports to push them to fall into line. What a disgusting country Brexit is making us.
      Link to article here
      https://twitter.com/uk_domain_names/status/1094003396753977344

      https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/uk/seaborne-freight-contract-terminated/

      https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2019/0208/1028454-brexit-republic-episode-twenty-six/

    172. Nana says:

      A hidden government is preparing for Brexit… by keeping us in the dark
      http://archive.vn/dXIcr

      Jim Pickard says
      I’ve got hold of this letter from Arklow to Grayling last month:
      https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1094225573315072001

      British cryptologist in Belgium explains brain drain resulting from Brexit vote
      https://mainichi.jp/english/articles/20190129/p2a/00m/0in/041000c

      https://www.thecanary.co/uk/analysis/2019/02/09/the-media-hardly-noticed-a-shocking-revelation-about-the-scale-of-money-laundering-in-the-uk/

    173. Nana says:

      Did you know that a sitting British MP is being paid £6000 a month by a foreign gold speculator whose business model is based on political chaos driving up the price of gold?
      https://twitter.com/nicktolhurst/status/1093883854065147904

      https://www.buzzfeed.com/albertonardelli/theresa-may-backstop-solution-eu-buy-time

      https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/markets/article-6686737/Japanese-firms-suspend-UK-operations-event-no-deal-Brexit.html

      The Good Friday Agreement allows the people of Northern Ireland to chose to be Irish or British or both Yet the UKG is refusing to accept Irish citizens as just that, insisting instead that they are first and foremost British
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Wo7-ggzITc&feature=youtu.be

    174. Nana says:

      This is the EU Brexit benefit – all UK former criminals living now in Spain will be returned to the UK
      https://twitter.com/wolfi665/status/1094257929623142408

      https://www.centreonconstitutionalchange.ac.uk/blog/agriculture-faces-uncertain-future-after-brexit

      Gavin Esler writing about lies in politics seems a bit hypocritical. I’m sure we all remember his No borders scam
      https://twitter.com/SandyWito1/status/1094170325275824128

      The Integrity Initiative and its HSBC Connection… with guest Nicholas Wil…
      video
      https://twitter.com/nw_nicholas/status/1093560438128869379

    175. Skintybroko says:

      Ah yesindyref2 you brought back a few memories re Kirkcaldy High Rugby – remember the first competitive match against a private school – our coach told us there would be no shame in being soundly beaten by them as they had been playing the game since primary- we lads from the schemes gubbed them by over 30points back in the old days with the old points system which if I remember was 4 for a try and 2 for a conversion. Back in those days there was a strong interschools rugby and most fife schools had a team- don’t know what it’s like these days as I doubt there are as many staff giving up their weekends for school sport.

    176. Donald McGregor says:

      There’s some chat on here about (non)coverage of Mary Lou McDonalds blistering statement on Westminster integrity and border poll.
      Irrespective of when any of us ‘might have’ been able to see this, the truth is that most people have not.
      Where are the newspaper and news programme headlines? I didn’t see a link on RTE news app either, and the most I got prior to stumbling over it on Twitter was a note somewhere that ‘Sinn Fein say a border poll is needed’
      Don’t remember seeing it in the National either.

      There’s some big ‘ignore them, don’t let anyone hear them’ stuff going on here and in Ireland I guess.

    177. Colin Alexander says:

      We could stop Scotland’s exit from the EU if the will was there from Scotland’s politicians.

      The sovereign people of Scotland voted Remain. The SNP’s made no attempt to defend our sovereignty or democracy in court. Their priority was to defend their role as administrators of devolution – and they lost both times in the Gina Miller and Continuity Bill cases. Never any attempt to uphold Scotland’s people’s sovereignty, only Scotland’s devolution.

      Scotland’s people need to assert our sovereignty. We were promised maximum home rule and EU membership. We were promised a devolution settlement that respected devolved and reserved. More importantly, people gave them a democratic mandate. ( As they did for indyref2).

      We didn’t get maximum home rule. The opposite happened: Devolution powers have been robbed by the unelected Lords, as the UK Govt didn’t think Scottish democracy was worthy of Commons’ debate.

      It’s time our politicians held a National Convention and declared Holyrood the supreme parliament for Scotland and implemented maximum home rule and continued EU membership for Scotland. Deliver what the people voted for.

      Whether independent or not, Scotland’s people are sovereign. Whether we voted Yes or No in 2014, we should support a Scottish Parliament that implements maximum home rule and respects the vote to remain in the EU, as this is what the people voted for in 2014 and 2016 respectively. We need a parliament and politicians that respect the sovereignty of the people.

      Maximum home rule as part of the Union and EU membership have already been decided on and these should be delivered first. UK Parliament didn’t deliver, the Scottish Parliament should.

      There is also a democratic mandate for indyref2, so it should also be respected, even though the SNP are clearly reluctant to hold one until Scotland is already out of the EU, so clearly breaching their manifesto mandate which stated indyref if being dragged, not AFTER, having left the EU.

    178. robbo says:

      Plenty of idiots on this twitter feed.Everyone most probably a knuckledragging ukip bigot.

      Even Murdo comments on here,feckin pleb

      https://twitter.com/dubsies1

    179. ScottieDog says:

      @yesindyref2
      Think one of the problems is that MMT gets misinterpreted even by people who support the idea. For example Richard Murphy has clumsily put his own spin on it too.

      If GMK and more recently Johnathan Portes (labours economic policy man) had consulted any of the texts produced by MMTs originators their points would have quickly dealt with.

      So they pluck a sentence and read it out in isolation. Mrs Kelton, in just about every lecture or article I have seen goes on to mention that although money is no object (which it isn’t in terms of how it is produced – via keystrokes ) it doesn’t mean that there isn’t a limit on how much you can create.

      The limits to that are inflation and the real limits to growth are the real resources we can access.

      Yes GMK seems incoherent to me. He neglects to mention that neoclassical economic theory which most of our politicians and bought-out economists adhere to has allowed us to destroy the biosphere and given us enough weapons to destroy the planet several times over.

      It seems he and others don’t want the mass populace to know the truth about money and economics – that there is enough to go around to keep everyone fed and sheltered amd employed and perhaps have a green new deal – the plight of congresswoman Cortez.

      Lastly these articles which misrepresent mmt get pounded upon by the lesser intellects like K*** H***.

      I Can only appeal to folk to come to the events in May and you’ll hear the basic facts about growing an independent country. These guys have NO emotional attachment to Scottish independence – they are on the fence – which makes their input all the more valuable.

    180. gus1940 says:

      O/T

      For several weeks now our Brit Nat politicians and their media fan club have been banging on about hospital acquired infections and the resultant tragic deaths therefrom in hospitals in the Glasgow area.

      Correct me if I am wrong but has there not been a worldwide crisis for many years re said infections and their resistance to currently available antibiotics.

      Said worldwide crisis predates by many years The SNP coming to power but nevertheless we are being left to come to the conclusion that the infections in Glasgow are somehow the fault of The SNP.

      If we had any real journalists left in our Britnat media perhaps it might be an idea for them to dig out the figures for said infections in not only other Scottish NHS establishments but also in England and say the rest of Europe.

      We might then be able to judge whether any blame re cases in Glasgow can be laid on The SNP or if as is more likely this is just yet another in the long line of SNPbad exercises.

    181. McBoxheid says:

      Colin Alexander says:
      9 February, 2019 at 10:55 am

      Nice cartoon and no so daft by the UK Govt.

      The FM has admitted the UK Govt’s Brexit has set the timetable for the FM. The UK Govt act and only then the FM reacts.

      The UK Govt can timewaste, kicking the can doon the road; Keep the ba’ in the corner.

      That’s all they need to do to drag Scotland out of the EU, then use their EU Withdrawal Bill power grab to legislate to create Scottish legal divergence and non-compatibility between Scotlands laws and the EU’s laws.

      Scotland would be out of the EU and unable to re-join the EU or EEA / EFTA, until they undergo a period of realignment with EU law.

      That could mean years.

      That Scotland would be out of the EU and not able to re-join for years would influence any referendum vote, so that YES may not win anyway in those circumstances.

      The UK Master will say: if you thought Brexit was bad, Scottish independence will be a million times worse and would mean Scotland is isolated from EU and UK Unions. We’ll be told We’re doomed unless ruled by UK Parliament.

      My feeling is that the war for independence is being lost right now with every tick of the clock to Brexit Day, while the FM plays the role of stateswoman and UN ambassador with no state to lead, only a colony.
      ————————————————————-
      What? whose arse did you pull that out of? Clearly not your own. you are simply not that clever, judging by the drivel you post with alarming regularity.

      All Scotland needs to do is have a day of voting to repeal any changes made by westminster. Westminster cannot change Scots Law anyway. On independence, we no longer will be forced to accept any english laws on reserved matters, on the contrary, we will be free to have our own constitution and making any adjustments to return our EU eligeability to the status quo.

      It would also happen a lot faster, because Scotland doesn’t not have to go though the lobbies as the Westminster set up does, saving hours in queueing up time.

    182. Dorothy Devine says:

      McBoxheid, please refrain from giving his entire quote . I normally just scroll past but you fooled me into thinking it was yours and not his , at least until the last paragraph!

    183. Lenny Hartley says:

      Gus1940 as far as i am aware, nobody has died from hospital aquired infections, the infections have been a contributary factor , the people who sadly have died have had some underlying illness which has been the main factor of their deaths. The head of the Scottish NHS infections dept said on TV recently that Scotland was the World Leader in stopping hospital aquired infections so there must be a league table somewhere!

    184. jezza says:

      Treeza has been in Ireland all week and not a mention of it, with no follow up interviews on Marr of Sky news.

      And as for anyone North of the border expecting to hear some kind of input there was also nothing.

      The only mention we get in the news these days is when “Scotland” Yard gets a mention or when that eejit the Duke of “Edinburgh” is trying to kill somebody.

    185. Tom says:

      On the debate about breaking the treaty of Union. I believe (and I am more than willing to be corrected on this), that it has already been broken.

      One of the articles stated that there was to be a separate Scottish mint. The Scottish mint lasted for a few years.

      This was in the 70s, there was a drama on the telly whereby some Scottish nationalists used it as a defence in a trial, stating that as the treaty had been broken that the UK ceased to exist and therefore Scotland was sovereign.

      They didn’t win the case. Which at the time I thought a bit unfair.

    186. Tom says:

      Also, wasn’t the poll tax technically illegal in Scotland as one of the articles said there would be no taxation in Scotland that wasn’t also in England?

      Therefore by introducing it, Maggie broke the treaty.

    187. Tinto Chiel says:

      Nana: interesting about the gilets jaunes and the BBC “shaping” of events (i.e. omitting to report the extent of the state crackdown). A BBC whistleblower recently warned that the true state of affairs in France had to be hidden, in case the proles here get out the pitchforks and torches and start heading for Westminster.

      Of course the compliant media in the UK managed to blame the EU for the effects of Red & Blue Tory austerity and ladled on large quantities of xenophobic guff so the hard of thinking would vote leave.

      Nice to know it isn’t just us independistas who get the State Propagandist treatment.

      “We are not alone.”

    188. Nana says:

      Morning Tinto, I’ve seen plenty coverage in the Irish press.
      It seems the UKgov feel the need to protect sensitive ‘brits’ from viewing such disturbing stuff.

      VIDEO: Now on it’s 13th consecutive weekend the Gilets jaunes protesters continue to take to the Paris streets
      https://twitter.com/irishtimesvideo/status/1094507519278546944

    189. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @TC –

      Not watching ‘normal’ telly, I don’t know whether or not the UK broadcasters are indeed operating under the shadow of a D-Notice, but they must have covered Mary Lou MacDonald’s statement – no-one can say she’s speaking in riddles, and her statement was, surely, much more important than any crafty jibe from Donald Tusk.

      It’s a common thread running through all mainstream analysis since we started monitoring it right here – distortion and dumbing-down of crucial interventions, spiking of intelligent discussion and, when all else fails, the complete blanking of information deemed too ‘sensitive’ for us poor sowels to process.

    190. K1 says:

      It’s not just with political optics either, recall Attenborough admitting the amount of film footage discarded in his nature programmes, deemed as ‘too sensitive’ for UK viewers. It’s what the BBC does best: propaganda for the masses.

    191. Robert Louis says:

      Regarding the international treaty of union between Scotland and England, is it not also the case that it mandated a separate Scottish treasury, which in fact existed until that evil witch Thatcher abolished it?

      I recall seeing a coat of arms on a building, just near the court of session in Edinburgh (where the old Scots parliament was).

    192. Nana says:

      @K1
      You mentioned Attenborough and something jogged the old memory

      https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/sir-david-attenborough-told-to-button-it-on-brexit-writes-tim-walker-1-5592606

      Links start at 8.01am for anyone who might have missed them.

    193. Nana says:

      Tony Connelly article on the economic historian Kevin O’Rourke’s book
      A Short History of Brexit by Kevin O’Rourke

      Why did Brexit happen? O’O’Rourke starts with the rule of thumb that historians look for contingency – forces that determine the outcome – while social scientists look at chance. As an economic historian, he puts his feet in both camps.
      https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/books/a-short-history-of-brexit-by-kevin-o-rourke-erudite-and-highly-readable-1.3778807

      Would this be a certain Glasgow Labour Councillor Matt Kerr arguing that local governments should have the power to introduce a workplace parking levy. I believe it is.
      https://twitter.com/AllanCasey89/status/1094283485265756162

    194. Colin Alexander says:

      McBoxheid said:

      “on independence” is not a fact, it’s a hope.

      We still don’t know if there will even be any indyref. The FM just makes announcements.

      The FACT is we are already sovereign. We don’t need any indyref YES win to assert sovereignty.

      It’s a fact Scotland voted Remain in the EU. It’s a fact they voted for maximum home rule.

      We could assert sovereignty by declaring Holyrood the Supreme Parliament and pausing Article 50 by taking it to a Scottish court asserting Scottish sovereignty and democratic mandate by 63% remain and seek an Interim Interdict on Brexit until there is a Scotland only EU Ref giving Scots the opportunity to leave the EU with the rest of the UK or remain part of the EU, so if Scotland voted Remain the UK and EU will just have to accommodate that.

      We could stop Brexit AND assert Scotland’s sovereignty and we could decide what powers we want to exercise as part of the UK. We could destroy the myth of UK Parliamentary sovereignty over Scotland’s sovereign people by using something that’s already established legal fact: Scotland’s people are sovereign.

      We could turn this Union upside down without an indyref, rip apart the myth of UK Parliament sovereignty over Scotland simply by asserting legal facts that are already established:

      The people of Scotland are sovereign in Scots Law. Parliamentary sovereignty is an English law; it does not apply to Scotland.

      Where the will of UK Parliament and the people of Scotland’s will clash, Scotland’s people’s will should prevail. By Scots Law.

    195. Colin Alexander says:

      https://www.rps.ac.uk/trans/1706/10/257

      Records of the Parliament of Scotland.

      The real wan, no the WM colonial yin.

    196. Iain mhor says:

      @Cameron B Brodie

      Yes, I’ve heard that before, framed more as an ‘Isle of Man’ style low/no tax haven. But the problem with ‘Singaporean’ is how it is used. Is it used as ‘Free market economy moving towards bi-lateral integration of trade & finance with global partners (regulated) or ‘Make a shit ton of money totally deregulated wild-west service economy’?
      For the UK it thinks erroneously in terms of the latter. For the ASEAN economies it is the former (As per its current pending FTA agreement with the EU) Another point being that if the UK wanted to “emulate” Singapore, it would need a sovereign wealth fund and there is no-way in hell that would fly without being robbed blind hahah!

      Scotland as Singapore though? Hmmm, well it pursues many of the ideals which the ASEAN economies do. The difference being harmonising and cooperation. Which is precisely the opposite mindset of WM, which has a more spiritual rapport with the Russian oligarchie’s MO -Deregulate and fill your mafiosi boots.
      In a sense Scotland is better placed to be the actual Singapore of the North Sea.

    197. Robert Peffers says:

      @CameronB Brodie says: 9 February, 2019 at 7:57 pm:

      ” … I stand corrected though that doesn’t undo the fact that the British constitution and the Treaty of Union are separate items.

      Woops! Hang on, CameronB- There is no such thing as a, “British Constitution because Britain has never been a unified state.

      Britain is a geographic term to describe an archipelago lying of the European mainland but it also includes the two, independent of Westminster, Channel Island Bailiwicks, the also independent Isle of Man and the Republic of Ireland.

      Westminster is legally the Parliament of the United Kingdom but is claimed, wrongly, by Westminster to be Her Majesty’s Parliament of Her United Kingdom”, and even that is wrong because Her Majesty’s personal United Kingdom also includes, not only the three Crown dependencies but every commonwealth country that still has Elizabeth Regina as their head of State.

      So there you go, Westminster is a bipartite union of only two Kingdoms and it also officially calls itself, would you believe, “The United Kingdom”. There are only two signatory kingdoms seals and signatures upon the Treaty of Union document. In order to legally sign such an International Treaty both signatories had to be equally sovereign Kingdoms or whichever one wasn’t sovereign would have had no legal right to agree to the Treaty.

      It thus follows that what constituted the United Kingdom was the Treaty of Union, 1706/7 and that means the Written Constitution of the United Kingdom is the Treaty of Union. BTW: It is not either or both of the Acts of Union as these were both the Acts passed by the respective, *Still independent), parliaments in order to put themselves into recess and become a union partnership. This allowed the still independent kingdoms to adopt the Treaty of Union and become, “The United Kingdom”. They did not become a united Country = they became a United Kingdom that contained four countries – three of which composed the Kingdom of England that preceded the United Kingdom by centuries. That means there is indeed a legal Written Constitution of the United Kingdom and that is the agreement signed by both kingdoms that actually constituted the United Kingdom.

      … Neither does it undo the fact that it is the Establishment’s failure to take account of this duel nature of British constitutional law that will ultimately undo the yoonyawn, IMHO.”

      There isn’t a duel British Constitution – The United Kingdom does not encompass the entire British Isles. The Treaty of Union constituted the United Kingdom and there is no duel, “British Constitutional Law”, just the Treaty of Union and that is common to both signatory kingdoms that agreed it.

      What that Treaty does is make it crystal clear that the two signatory, Kingdoms agree they each have a distinctly different, Rule of Law, and these are irreconcilable with each other and thus must remain independent of each other forever.

      Let’s just sum that all up – The Treaty of Union, (1706/70, united only two equally sovereign kingdoms and thus the written constitution of that United Kingdom is what both Kingdoms agreed to so it is the written constitution of the United Kingdom.

      It did not form a unified country for all four countries are, today, still extant. However the country of Ireland was first politically partitioned by the Westminster parliament by the creation of what Westminster called, “The Irish Free State”. Which state was actually NOT a free state but was classed as being a, “British Empire Dominion”, (you do know the definition of, “Dominion”, don’t you?

      Subsequently the Irish Free State unilaterally declared itself a Republic and a republic cannot be part of a constitutional Monarchy. The Kingdom of England, (all three countries of it), became a constitutional Monarchy after the, (still independent), Parliament of England rebelled against their rightful monarch in 1688 and deposed him. Thus the Kingdom of Scotland did not become a constitutional monarchy and remained independent until forced into the Treaty of Union of 1706/7. Neither did the Kingdom of Scotland depose their rightful monarch and thus the English claim that the Jacobite uprisings were rebellions is lies. (You cannot rebel against a monarchy not your own).

      So there you go – Westminster’s version of history is a tissue of lies and omissions but a little thought shows their version of history is not only lies but covers up for their illegal actions – actions that Westminster is today still illegally engaged in imposing upon Scotland and the legally sovereign people of Scotland.

      You seem to have accepted much of their lies and omissions as legally truth and legally acceptable. I, and a great many other Scots do not but many who do not are rather unclear in their minds as to exactly why they cannot accept the Westminster erroneous mantras. Your several recent comments contain many quite obvious errors of terminology. For example you several times have confuse the terms “Britain/British”, with United Kingdom but these are decidedly two quite different entities that Westminster has deliberately used to brainwash people since ever there was a United Kingdom Government.

      A United Kingdom Government that on 1 May 1707 began as it intended to continue – treating the Scots as their inferiors and the United Kingdom parliament as the continued parliament of the country of England they consider to be the master country in the United Kingdom. To the extent they are now not just devolving de facto country of England powers to only three dominion countries while continuing to refer to themselves as The United Kingdom, or even the British Parliament, (as in Brexit).

      There is absolutely no doubt that the facts above are the real truth – but, “They don’t want you to know that”.

    198. Legerwood says:

      gus1940 @ 9.56 am

      Re Hospital Acquired Infections (HAIs) in Scotland.

      Here is a link to information on this issue – scroll to the bottom of the page for all the reports and executive summaries.

      https://www.hps.scot.nhs.uk/haiic/sshaip/haiprevalencestudy.aspx

      Note: When the SNP took over in 2007 HAIs were at 9.5% – 1in 10 patients in hospital had an HAI.

      According to the Executive Summary of the 2017 report in the link above it is now 1 in 22

    199. Robert Peffers says:

      @CameronB Brodie says: 9 February, 2019 at 9:22 pm:

      ” … Yes, the Treaty of Union 1707 is the founding document of the current United Kingdom but it is not the DE FACTO, British constitution …

      There – I’ve corrected that for you. Alternative to de facto could well be the term illegal and what makes it illegal is the very simple to understand concept that the actual, and only, written constitution of the United Kingdom is the Treaty of Union. Thus if that actual written constitution is not being followed whatever has replaced it is not the actual constitution – written or otherwise.

      Simple really – Two partners agree a deal – One partner illegally takes over and, “unilaterally”, changes the agreement they both agreed and signed. No court in the World would accept there has not been an illegal act carried out.

      Just remember that the Queen of England/The Crown is only sovereign in the three country Kingdom of England but she/they are not sovereign under Scots law and the people of Scotland not only were never consulted on any sovereignty changes but the law of both kingdom has not been changed.

      Under Scots law the people are still sovereign and under English law the Queen/crown is still legally sovereign and the Treaty of union still says these two independent sovereignties are sacrosanct and thus still extant.

    200. CameronB Brodie says:

      Robert Peffers
      I wasn’t the most enthusiastic student of constitutional theory. 😉

    201. yesindyref2 says:

      re MMT or neo-lib, or QE, basically speaking, both currency and debts are secured on the population of a country, and any other assets that country has.

    202. yesindyref2 says:

      Mmm, try that again.

      e MMT or neo-lib, or QE, basically speaking, both currency and debts are secured on the population of a country, and any other assets that country has.

      Though governments can have an effect on the percception of its value and creditworthiness, they are usually transient. Get a bad one, get a (relatively) good one next time.

    203. Petra says:

      Thanks for the links Nana. Start reading one and it leads to another, another and another, lol.

      From the Mark McNaught link.

      ‘An Audience Member’s Honest View of BBC Question Time’ by Colette Walker.

      https://m.facebook.com/1653335488261084/posts/2248361932091767?sfns=mo

      …………………………………..

      Well worth a watch.

      ‘The Integrity Initiative and its HSBC Connection… with guest Nicholas Wil…’

      video

      https://twitter.com/nw_nicholas/status/1093560438128869379

      ………………………………..

      Institute for Statecraft (based in Fife), Integrity Initiative and HSBC. HSBC with links to the FBI, CIA, BBC and so on. HSBC, for example, the Russian and Mexican drug cartel laundromat. US case against HSBC due to be heard in Court. No mention of this on the BBC. Watching each others backs?

      http://www.forbes.com/sites/doliaestevez/2016/02/11/hsbc-sued-for-money-laundering-by-families-of-americans-murdered-by-mexican-cartels/#690211ef7aba

    204. Cactus says:

      Yes, it’s coming to the end of the road for May and her uk Union.

      Nae imaginary painting can save the Tories and their Union.

      Her ‘Brexit can’ is empty, it contains no content.

      There can be only one real road-runner:
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zjg1aqF9TTA

      Get ready for Indy, Scotland.

    205. Jason Smoothpiece says:

      Sad day for Spain and its people as it begins a trial for political prisoners in 2019.

      Shame on Spain it will never recover from this.

      Shame on us all really.



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