The Neverending Mandate
This probably merits more attention.
Because the SNP are now openly, publicly telling you that they’re never going to achieve independence for Scotland, nor even make any meaningful attempt at it.
Let’s look at that statement for a moment – bearing in mind it comes from someone very close indeed to Nicola Sturgeon.
The last sentence is what the SNP have been telling us for the last six or seven years: that the UK government will be unable to democratically resist a mandate from the Scottish people for another indyref.
They’ve kept telling us this as UK PM after UK PM has done precisely that – David Cameron then Theresa May then Boris Johnson then Liz Truss have resisted mandate after mandate after mandate with no difficulty whatsoever, and no sign that it’s caused them any sleepless nights.
The SNP have won eight elections in Scotland since the indyref: Westminster elections in 2015, 2017 and 2019, Holyrood elections in 2016 and 2021, council elections in 2017 and 2022 and European election in 2019. None of them were close-run victories – they won the Euro election by 23 points over their nearest rival, and only the 2017 council election saw a winning margin in single digits.
There has been a pro-independence majority in the Scottish Parliament for every single day since the 2014 referendum. Were Scotland a normal democratic country, we would be out of the UK by now. Parliament would have voted for it, just like the UK Parliament did for Brexit, and that would have been the end of the matter. The UK Parliament did not require or seek permission from the European Parliament to leave the EU. It simply exercised its democratic right as the body representing the people.
(Even though there has never been a UK Parliament where pro-Brexit MPs represented over 50% of voters in an election – in the wholly-Brexit-focused 2019 election, pro-Brexit parties got just 46% of the vote, compared to 49.6% for pro-indy parties at the 2021 Holyrood election.)
Pro-Brexit MPs could, of course, point to the Brexit referendum itself as their mandate. But now the SNP are telling us that even if an election they are treating as “a de facto referendum” delivers over 50% of the vote, they’ll still simply go back to Westminster with their caps in their hands and “demand” another referendum like they’ve been doing for over half a decade.
In other words, the election won’t be an indyref at all, but merely a referendum about a referendum, which the UK government will be under no obligation to attach any significance to, because the SNP itself has just given the UK government carte blanche to say no forever.
(“There is no route to independence that does not involve the agreement of the UK government.”)
So if you wait ANOTHER two years for the SNP to actually do anything, it still won’t count. They’ll just class it as yet another “irresistible mandate”, exactly the same as the previous eight that the UK Government resisted.
And when they resist this one too – which they will, because why on Earth wouldn’t they? What do they have to lose? Votes in Scotland? LOL – what will the SNP do? Make the NEXT election ANOTHER two years down the line ANOTHER “de facto referendum”, then repeat forever when Westminster knocks that one back too? This is already their last-ditch Hail Mary option and they’ve just told you they don’t really mean it. We’re still just begging on bended knee for something we’re never going to be given.
(The idea that it’s “politically” impossible, as opposed to legally impossible, is just absolute nonsense. We already know that whoever wins the next UK election, Labour or the Tories, will have stood on a manifesto of unequivocally refusing a second indyref and will therefore have its own mandate on behalf of the whole UK to keep Scotland firmly locked in the basement.)
The only way a de facto referendum can work is IF YOU ACTUALLY TREAT IT AS A REFERENDUM – that is to say, if you get over 50% of the vote you DO go ahead and declare independence, bypassing the UK government and appealing for international recognition under the UN Charter, noting that all other peaceful avenues have been comprehensively exhausted.
It’s actually the way most countries in the last 100 years have done it. It wouldn’t be plain sailing. But anything less than that is just throwing in the towel before the start of the fight. “Do what I want or I’ll jolly well ask you again in the future” is not a strategy, it’s a surrender.
Safely assume, readers, that Mhairi Hunter – the First Minister’s election agent, loyal servant and close personal pal – would not make public statements that did not reflect the First Minister’s position. This is SNP policy now. The “de facto referendum” has just been revealed as merely another empty, meaningless fart of rhetoric aimed at the infinitely gullible. More of the same, because if the mug punters are still swallowing it why would they stop shovelling it?
There are no secrets here. No journalism, no analysis was required to uncover the scam. They’re just telling you, right out in the open, if you can be bothered to hear. If you still believe in them – and there are still diehard SNP loyalists who read this site despite everything – ask yourself exactly what it would take to make you see. For as long as these crooked charlatans have control of the SNP, there will be no independence.
If you encounter any bears whilst on patrol, please let us know. Being torn apart by an angry ursine is becoming a better option than another day in Sturgeon’s NuScotlandshire.
I’m sick fed up of the lies spouted by the SNP about legality of anything. If there’s no law against a thing, it’s lawful. How fucking thick are they all?
There’s an Act of Scottish Parliament devoted to referendums.
Also, in Scotland nobody can stop a petition organised by or on behalf of the people on a single issue. It can run over a set period, rather than a one day exercise.
It’s democracy in action from the bottom up, as our constitution allows for. A de facto referendum that still allows dissent to be recorded.
It can be restricted to those whose birth is recorded in our national registers, electoral registers in situ, a special register. And public funds are available to organise such a thing.
I’d do it, but can’t for health reasons.
It IS ” politically ( and rationally ) impossible ” to believe there is the remotest possibility of Independence under this mob of utter frauds . Epitomised by the ” we never even discuss Independence ” likes of Hunter .
If , come the next UKGE/SGE , anyone , Alex Salmond included , tries to tell us we MUST vote SNP – they can fuck-off .
These fucks will never get another vote from me as long as the current regime is in power – even if another cheek of the same Devolutionist arse takes over in the event of Sturgeon fulfilling her – real – ambition ie …getting a seat on the gilded Globalist Gravy Jet
SNP don’t have the bottle for independence.
A country can only _negotiate_ its independence if the country it is negotiating with, is (a) willing for them to become independent, and (b) prepared to negotiate in good faith. Neither will ever be the case for the proto-rUK. Independence first, negotiate later — is the only imaginable way.
UK Government does not own either Act that enabled its existence, the monarch does by virtue of the treaty Queen Anne created.
In Scotland, the monarch is beholden to the people’s expressed will.
The end.
Get on with it.
If there was any clearer indication that a plebiscite election was at all viable it’d be her attempt to kill it in the womb.
She was rejected at the polls in an STV election where people who supported independence deliberately avoided voting for her.
She knows that in a post independence Scotland that not only would the support for the SNP fall but the election process’s at all levels of government would probably be far more proportional than Holyrood’s, never mind Westminster’s.
This is simply someone who doesn’t want the gravy train to end. Who needs eternal student politics where fuck all is actually achieved to make a wage.
Basically it’s sabotage.
As will be the case if by some chance the Supreme Court give the green light to a referendum next year, there’s a general election before then, and the SNP don’t stand for a mandate with at least an option for UDI if the incoming Westminster decide to block said referendum. Perhaps via emergency legislation amending the Scotland Act. Or by simply legislating the referendum away on behalf of Holyrood.
I have repeatedly said the SNP are not a party of independence and the sole intention of the so-called de facto (or any other type)
referendum is designed simply to keep them in the trough for as long as possible. I am puzzled that so many people haven’t seen this.
But even in the light of this open admission they will probably carry on as before. I wonder what it will take for them to see the light.
I get the feeling that the UKSC will knock back the mock indyref, and Sturgeon will use the next GE to obtain as many SNP MPs as possible, when that happens independence will be kicked into the long grass until 2026, when it will be wheeled out again to fool the indy masses once more.
Sturgeon will never attempt an indyref without Westminster’s consent, in other words whilst she’s FM the unions safe and secure, the question must be how much damage she’ll do to the indy movement and Scotland before she exits Bute House, and will we still be in a position to leave this union by then.
I have never desoised a political leader more than sturgeon. I used to cheer the loudest at her conference speeches, but thanks to this site, I have been awakened to the treachery.
Lets hope other SNP diehards do the same and ditch this treacherous woman.
Sturgeon is out too sabotage the independence cause. The SNP members are scared of her. Time for them to wake up and challenge her!
For Scotlands sake!
Of course she doesnt want independence…. ‘She’d be in Jail’!!
“There is no route to independence that does not involve the agreement of UK Gov.”
This is about the 20th time I’ve posted the following:
Nobody should be agreeing to a de facto referendum everyone should be demanding a section 30.
If Sturgeon can’t come up with a section 30 then we should be demanding her resignation and someone with some political savvy put in her place.
At the same time we should be taking matters into our own hands.
All demonstrations should be happening in London. There would be more of a chance of attracting international press coverage there than a demonstration held in Glasgow or anywhere in Scotland.
There should be demonstrations demanding the ‘cozy slippers’ do something and demonstrations demanding a Section 30.
What has Sturgeon done to get a section 30? What have the ‘Cozy fuckers’ at Westminster done?
There are a whole commonwealth of countries that have informed Westminster to get on its bike as they declared themselves independent.
Are the SNP telling us we are too wee, too stupid to walk a well established road.
Scotland needs a party of independence and quick.
Wot? Declare UDI and wave goodbye to the (responsibility free) gravy bus? The Gilruth / Dugdale hoosehold grosses an absolute minimum of £250k per annum.
“bypassing the UK government and appealing for international recognition under the UN Charter, noting that all other peaceful avenues have been comprehensively exhausted… It’s actually the way most countries in the last 100 years have done it.”
You know the first thing the UK Government would do if Scotland threatened to bypass the Section 30 process and do as you suggest above?
They’d offer us a Section 30.
SNP are now superficially and Indy Party. Aye the good Jocko Uncle Tom is in ruddy good health in the SNP.
Rev Stu .
Am I supposed to be surprised, Shocked? , angry, ? disappointed,? upset with the snp,? the Scottish devolved government?
None of the above I’am afraid. They are all part and parcel of a false front of democracy from a English government.
And I mean a english government both in england and Scotland,
The English parliament entered the created Great Britain government without votes in 1706/ 1707.
The Scottish parliament closed its doors before the Great Britain parliament came into existence.
Hence no legally completed treaty of a political union in 1706 or 1707.
No one could have predicted this.
I’m shocked … shocked …
Vivian O’Blivion,
UDI is illegal for governments to proceed with, not people. There is a distinction between the two.
Hatuey says:
28 September, 2022 at 3:56 pm
You know the first thing the UK Government would do if Scotland threatened to bypass the Section 30 process and do as you suggest above?
They’d offer us a Section 30.
Is having a ‘de facto referendum’ not a threat to bypass the section 30?
Rev Stu,
Just to let you know that I’ve not received an email about this post, I wonder if this has happened to anyone else ?
I’ll tick the box again re notification of new posts by email.
Vivian O’Blivion says:
28 September, 2022 at 3:55 pm
Wot? Declare UDI and wave goodbye to the (responsibility free) gravy bus? The Gilruth / Dugdale hoosehold grosses an absolute minimum of £250k per annum.
Why do you think we didn’t have this ‘cozy slippers’ problem in 2014?
“There is no route to independence that does not involve the agreement of the UK government.”
Yes, there is. Indeed, several routes actually. Just none that the nuSNP are willing, never mind able, to take!
I look forward to the SNP conference next week where we will be told by the almighty one of how to conduct ourselves during IndyRef2 campaigning.
The contradictory thing about her Code of Conduct is that there is no IndyRef2 to campaign for.
And we can always live and hope that some totally pissed off member rushes the stage where Sturgeon is sitting on her throne, and rams her crown down her throat.
SURELY some member will put Sturgeon in her place at conference.
Sturgeon seems to have total control over every,,,,
member
Councillor
MSP
MP
She also has total control of all Holyrood committees, the judiciary, the Police.
She has total control over every aspect of Scottish life that you can think of.
We are living through a Dictatorship.
The chaos that is happening regards Westminster and the cost of living should be our perfect opportunity to make a move for Scottish independence,
But instead we are going over the same ground we covered eight long years ago.
There must be someone, somewhere,,blah blah blah.
I HATE NICOLA STURGEON!!!
There is no point in repeatedly hitting your head against the same brick wall.
The native people of Scotland will have to do it for the politicians that deliberately look blockages.
We know that if the pretend devolved government currently managed by the snp on behalf of the UK will not question the breaches of the treaty of the union,
Never mind wether the treaty of political union is actually valid.
As most people who know will already know I am not a radical type person. I do listen to others point of view even if at the end I don’t agree with them.
My time in the SNP was always focused on a road to deliver independence until I realised that the SNP was no longer a democratic party and that it was being used by a small group to place radical extremists at central positions within the party. Vetting was being used to stop decent people being selected as candidates and independence was not allowed to even be discussed.
The Alba Party was launched just over a year ago and the Yes campaign has started to relaunch only much wiser than before. Groups like #AUOB, #Salvo and even the group I am a member of #SSRG have helped release the Yes movement that has been kept captive by the SNP since 2015.
Well no longer, Scotland’s future is not the political play thing of the SNP or its leadership. Political leadership and political will is now being offered by Alex Salmond and for that we should all be grateful. A vision supported with experience and plenty of political will. If you want an end to injustice, want to help make a better fairer more equal society then join the battle. Join Alba support the SSRG, sign up to Salvo and join every AUOB march.
Our ancestors must be watching and wondering what took you so long?
YFS
David Henry
Rab Davis,
NS is just running the devolved government in Scotland the same as the devolved english governments in the Counties of England,
Before her it was Mundell or O Connell, but all of the same creed,
It matters not who is governor of the Colony, but that it is treated with the subjection and suppression of a Colony.
“Is having a ‘de facto referendum’ not a threat to bypass the section 30?”
That depends on how you frame the defacto referendum. They seem to be framing it as another mandate to discuss independence; there’s no compelling threat behind it.
Actually, as the article suggests, the SNP is really threatening to keep doing nothing, and they want another mandate for that.
The only people that will feel threatened by this are real independence supporters.
I hope anyone attending the SNP conference understands this and makes some sort of demonstration.
Either Nicola, (the knasher) we know her history, grows a pair of balls or she should resign. If not, it is time for the party, MP’s and MSPs to dump her
Panda Paws.
I agree with you, Yes there are other ways, and violence is not one of them from the Scottish side,
The UK government would just love to send in the army or police to beat us back into submission like the did in 1707 and later.
I like the idea of a PARALLEL COMMUNITY OF SCOTS.
Don,t need to knock out or disturb the devolved government, and bring down the wrath of Uk aggression on our shoulders.
A PARALLEL COMMUNITY OF SOVEREIGN SCOTS to be precise.
The Devolved governments hold over scottish sovereignty would quickly be deminished.
James Che 4.48pm
You say is doesn’t matter who is running things in Scotland.
I would have to disagree with you on that one.
Sturgeon is our First Minister.
She holds all the cards.
She is leader of the Pro independence Party SNP.
She is head of a YES majority at Holyrood.
She has the ear of the Westminster government.
She has the power to take our case for independence to international bodies.
She could go down the Claim of Rights road.
Sturgeon has ALL the power,,we have NONE.
So, until she moves her Arse out of Bute House, we are stuck with her and her gradualist road to Indy.
That is why every comment throughout the Indy movement is so full of frustration.
The only way Sturgeon will be removed is by internal manoeuvres from MSPs and MPs.
The rest of us will need to sit it out and hope it happens sooner rather than later.
Mass Protests outside Bute House might get things moving,,,I’d be up for that.
Rab Davis says:
28 September, 2022 at 5:09 pm
James Che 4.48pm
You say is doesn’t matter who is running things in Scotland.
I would have to disagree with you on that one.
Sturgeon is our First Minister.
She holds all the cards.
—
Does she, aye?
Not even creations of the Scotland Act can impede a petition from the sovereign population of Scotland.
[eg: Should Scotland repeal Union with England Act 1707? Yes/No – held on a central register]
Statute law provides for this very scenario, as well as it being a common law right.
Sturgeon is an incompetent, power hungry narcissist.
That’s about the biggest compliment I can give her.
Scott 5.21pm
I will go down any road that leads to Scottish Independence.
I will fight with every fibre of my body for Scottish independence.
So Scott, if you say we have an option that bypasses Sturgeon, then I’m up for the fight.
I just need pointed in the right direction.
Is your option something the likes of ALBA would run with?
Needs more information about it to be in the public domain.
Outwith the Wings bubble.
MH tweet can probably be explained away as a clumsy effort to pressure the supreme court since the defacto referendum, being indyref2 (or indyref3 if indyref2 on 19 October 2023 was somehow too close to call), means that they wont have a mandate for indyref2 in any event.
That said, having denied ALL Scots a say in indyref 2/3, it will surely make it easier to deny the new Scots a vote in indyref4 – so maybe it does add a bit pressure regardless.
Is it now time to ask why?
Was Sturgeon always a kidon independentista?
Just interested in the ego massage of the top job
And happy to surf the indy desire to get it and keep it
Or is there something else going on?
I’m not partial to conspiracy theories
But those whose job it is to preserve the union could not have been dealt a better hand than such an SNP First Minister
A chance byproduct of devolution
Or something more organised?
Look out for the 5th of November 2022 announcement from Salvo.
I would have thought this was a perfect time for the New SNP to say to Liz Truss give us a S30 order or the SNP will bring forward an early holyrood election and use it as a plebiscite. As we know the New SNP isn’t genuine about Indyref2 because if they were what better time to end this union than today when Westminster is on its knees begging.
Let not forget Sturgeon gave the Tories their majority and put Johnson in Downing street when the Tories couldn’t get anything passed.
I’m a bit fed with this Indytruck and his accomplice and how the New SNP are the only party in town.
“Hatuey says:
28 September, 2022 at 3:56 pm
You know the first thing the UK Government would do if Scotland threatened to bypass the Section 30 process and do as you suggest above?
They’d offer us a Section 30.”
We could always refuse said Section 30…
@Scott says:28 September, 2022 at 2:41 pm
“In Scotland, the monarch is beholden to the people’s expressed will.
The end”
Ah, but on a question where half of the people’s expressed will is for one thing, and the other half of the people’s expressed will is for the opposite, which half should the monarch be beholden too?
Thus we see the difficulties arising from the foolish decision by the Indy movement to allow the republican carpet-baggers to climb on board.
The half of the people whose expressed will is for Indy are also assumed to have an expressed will to terminate the monarchy. Hardly surprising if the monarch makes the decision to listen to the other half of the sovereign Scots instead.
And that’s before we remember that it is mostly the Indy half of sovereign Scots whos mouthpieces have been recently hurling spiteful and cowardly insults at our monarchs, alive and dead.
The Kingdom Of Scotland was founded around 843. The Kingdom of Scotland pre-dates the union of 1707. There is absolutely no reason why it can’t post-date the union.
Other than the malice and petty mindedness of the ideological purists who are as determined as ever that it will be their kind of Indy, or no Indy at all.
Peter grant basically said the same thing that the next election they would be in Westminster
Revenge against Alex Salmond and any who support him? She is a spiteful wee wumin now. She’d rather deny us the chance & risk losing devolution than deliver now. She’ll hand the reigns to duffer Robertson, if still around, and walk away having NOT lost the referendum. but SNP will lose seats & votes on her successors watch not hers. to fear to try in case she fails! As for Swinney. he is a state agent!
@John Main’s latest episode of begging the question
You can’t assume something that hasn’t been expressed. And it most certainly has no standing in Scots law if anyone does so.
yw,hth etc…
Should we not petition Holyrood, demanding they exercise the Claim of Right which specifically states that if the king [or equivalent leader] fails to protect us from the English then that leader will be deposed?
The Scot gov constantly states that England-dominated Westminster is causing harm to the Scottish people. I think we would all agree with that. It follows that the Scot gov is not currently protecting us from the English.
Holyrood and the Scot gov should on our behalf inform Scottish MPs that they should withdraw from Westminster and then, at the least, consult we the people for our instruction as to withdrawing from the Union.
If Holyrood won’t protect and serve our common good they will have forfeited their right to govern.
By laying this responsibility of upholding the Claim of Right directly and explicitly on Holyrood, it will be clear to all whether our MSPs are loyal to the Claim of Right or actually think that they are sovereign instead.
Rather than launching a Holyrood petition and starting from scratch, perhaps all the salvo and liberation signatories could be asked for their agreement to support the petition. Plus Alba, ISP, Scottish Socialists and other membership listed sources. That would raise a significant number of signatories quickly – it is important to act quickly because as we saw today, disaster can happen overnight.
Indeed. If people still can’t see what’s right in front of their noses, they must be snorting cocaine.
Until Sturgeon goes, it’s game over.
The real point I was trying to make, Derek, rather than some hypothetical point, is that Westminster would back down in an instant if the SNP had a leader that showed even a hint of spirit and resistance. That’s a guess, of course, a guess because it hasn’t come close to happening.
The SNP has a leader that thinks success is measurable in selfies and, as far as I can make out, the only other issue she seems to genuinely care about revolves around allowing men into womens’ toilets.
The SNP hasn’t stood up to the Tories once since she took over. Not in any meaningful way. Blackford’s performances in the Commons over the last few years have been nothing but embarrassing.
Kenny MacAskill and Neale Hanvey done more in a few seconds to inspire us than that whole shower of sub-prime troughing fakes managed in 8 years.
If I lived in a marginal, I’d vote for anyone to get rid of an SNP politician — Tory, Labour, anyone, I’d vote for them, no problem. That’s where I am today.
If you think that’s going a bit too far, just calm yer weesht. Because that’s where you’re all probably going to be in two, three, maybe four years, when the penny finally drops.
You will all enjoy watching the SNP vote collapse some day, though, just as you enjoyed watching Labour support collapse (for the same reasons).
In political terms it’s probably all we realistically have to look forward to, our next evolutionary step into the UK abyss; and it’s only right that you should enjoy punishing those who brought this dire situation about.
I can handle Westminster’s disregard for us. I can handle scumbag Tories treating us like crap. We’ve been dealing with that stuff all our lives. What I can’t handle is the smug SNP imposters pretending they’re on my side.
I agree very much with most of what’s being said here, especially what David Henry says: “Scotland’s future is not the political plaything of the SNP or its leadership”… There’s been a massive change since Alex Salmond’s time as our First Minister, along with his experience and strength of political willpower.
Westminster feared the original SNP and knew That Ending the ‘UK’ was an inevitability… Scotland regaining its place among the world’s independent nations would
end the United Kingdom AND alter many international relationships as well… Predicting what these alterations might be is too difficult, but we can be sure that they will affect more than Scotland itself!
Many – if not most, pro-independence voters have a strengthening feeling that our people do recognise that our cause is embraced and driven by good social knowledge and in a manner that was never possible before. Good politicians will always matter; however, the internet’s here for most of Scotland’s people and this bodes well for all of our futures!
Again, with David’s words: “Our ancestors must be watching and wondering what took you so long?”
Sturgeon has given up on independence. This metamorphosis occured about 2017. She has made her bed , and will continue with devolution until she retires.
There are various reasons for this. Firstly tactical blunders ,after winning mandates. Showboating trying to stop Brexit. Having no plan when May said now is not the time. Personal issues which compromise her, the Brits have stuff on her.
Inability to think outside the box. Obsessed with keeping the media and unionists on side. Having no plan for independence.Not listening to others. Being very cold hearted and downright vindictive.
All in all a right piece of work. She conned us all. We all fell for it at some point. The empress has no clothes.
“Hatuey says:
28 September, 2022 at 10:52 pm
The real point I was trying to make, Derek, rather than some hypothetical point, is that Westminster would back down in an instant if the SNP had a leader that showed even a hint of spirit and resistance.”
Aye, but if we had said leader then we wouldn’t need Westminster to back down – which was what I was getting at.
As for your point about voting for anyone but the SNP; I’d spoil my ballot before voting tory. Never voted for them; never going to.
“As for your point about voting for anyone but the SNP…”
That isn’t my point, not exactly. I’m saying I’d vote for anyone if it gave me a realistic chance of punishing the SNP. I’m way beyond hoping they’ll change and actually do something, as you might have gathered.
The vote is all we have and we have every right to use it as we see fit. It isn’t necessary that you vote positively for things you believe in; it’s not football.
What matters is that you vote wisely, where circumstances permit.
Of course, it’s complicated. We have options like Alba to factor in, etc.
Hatuey 11.47pm
Regards voting for anybody but SNP,,,I remember on this very site last year there was a push to vote for Sarwar in Sturgeon’s constituency vote.
Even the Rev Stu put it forward as a viable plan.
If it had succeeded, then Sturgeon would have lost her seat and we would have had a new First Minister.
But the Sturgeonisatas on here just couldn’t stop themselves from calling out anyone who would consider doing such a thing as a Yoon.
They just didn’t get the big picture.
And to this day those very same people STILL don’t get the big picture.
And even when you try to explain the problems Sturgeon has caused in big easy to explain words,,,, they STILL don’t get it.
That is why we are where we are.
And no doubt the same nutters will be screaming from the rafters next week in Aberdeen at the SNP conference when their cult leader enters the arena.
Yet, somehow Indi-Car Gordon Ross, Wee Ginger Dug, Chris ‘eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh’ McCusker, Lesley Riddoch and all the other gullible YES types continue to put their faith in the current SNP-Green coalition.
Independence isn’t going to happen and you guys won’t get another chance for at least 10 years.
Hatuey says:
28 September, 2022 at 10:52 pm
Kenny MacAskill and Neale Hanvey done more in a few seconds to inspire us than that whole shower of sub-prime troughing fakes managed in 8 years.
———
Both will lose their seats at the next election. The Tories and the SNP have been in power for too long, it’s time for a change both at Westminster and Holyrood.
That’s right, Rab, I was one of those calling for people to vote Sarwar on here. I didn’t mind being called a Yoon either. And I’d have genuinely loved to see him win.
The SNP is the enemy of independence. They’re very effectively blocking the space that a real independence party might occupy. Once you know that, once you realise we’d have more chance of independence if the SNP didn’t exist, everything falls uncomfortably into place.
The might lose their seats, Pike, but if they do it’ll have nothing to do with the SNP being in power too long.
It’ll be more down to BBC Scotland joining forces with the SNP to slate and/or de-platform them; they’ve been conspiring against real independence supporters and the independence movement itself for a good 5 years now.
David Henry says:
28 September, 2022 at 4:45 pm
A vision supported with expeIf you want an end to injustice, want to help make a better fairer more equal society then join the battle. Join Alba support the SSRG, sign up to Salvo and join every AUOB march.
——————
1. Injustice exists in every country. How would Scotland become the only nirvana on the face of the Earth?
Hatuey says:
29 September, 2022 at 12:31 am
The might lose their seats, Pike, but if they do it’ll have nothing to do with the SNP being in power too long.
It’ll be more down to BBC Scotland joining forces with the SNP to slate and/or de-platform them; they’ve been conspiring against real independence supporters and the independence movement itself for a good 5 years now.
——-
15 years is too long for any government to be in power.
@ Robert Hughes 2.30pm I am with you on that Robert , I refused to vote for these cocks in frock loving cowards at the last election irrespective of AS’ pleas , I also couldn’t vote for ALBA as I felt their rep was a grifter
I issue fair warning to Gavin Newlands and George Adams I will never vote for you or your party again , you have and are betraying Scotland and the Scottish people by your cowardice in the face of a perverted narcissistic bully , we know the snp pervs are fed back info from this site , maybe if people started publicly telling their own MP’s and MSP’s they will NOT be voting for them or the pervert party they might worry about being thrown off the GRAVY BUS
I also noticed on the Bastard Biased Corporation politics show that bbc reporter David Wallace Lockhart was sticking up and making excuses for humza useless in his appearance at NHS committee today, UNBELIEVABLY he was citing that Westminster was not giving Scotland’s NHS enough money and that humza didn’t have enough borrowing powers or didn’t have enough finances to boost recruitment, Does that NOT appear suspicious when at every opportunity the Bastard corp decries Scotland
Maybe nicoliar is being helped to stay in power
Those expecting Sturgeon to “change” and properly push for Independence, I’m sorry to say, remind me of people who wrote letters of complaint about the BBC, to the BBC, believing the bias against Independence was some kind of oversight.
Sturgeon isn’t perplexed on how to deliver Independence any more than the BBC was perplexed about delivering unbiased reporting. There is no intention whatsoever of doing so, but they string along the gullible by perpetual lies and duplicity.
Sturgeon has betrayed the Independence Movement and hasn’t a grain of remorse about doing so. Those who cannot see that need to open their eyes.
To bastardise a phrase attributed to Johnny Armstrong, a Border Reiver conned, deceived, and undone by betrayal by James V. “I am but a fool to seek grace at a graceless face, but had I known you would have taken me this day, I would have lived in the Borders despite King Harry and you both.”
We are but fools expecting Sturgeon to recant her wilful betrayal. It was never unintended, and she will continue to con the gullible until the last act. She should properly be impeached and then jailed or exiled from Scotland.
If the Claim of Right can remove a King from his throne, it can remove a charlatan and betrayer from her seat.
RevSTU, the indy movement really needs your input. This single article is proof alone, if ever such proof were needed. I read the SNP submission to the supreme court, and even amongst their assertions of universal rights etc.. they placed the caveat that indy needs the co operation of Westminster. They really do not know how to negotiate, do they?
For independence, the SNP apprently have zero political acumen. They openly admit their hand, before Westminster even questions them. They are like a man selling his car for 10k, who when a buyer comes to look, then without question openly states, ‘oh, of course I know you won’t want to pay 10k, I kind of expect to only get 7k’. So guess, what the buyer starts their negotiation from 7K downwards.
Compare and contrast the current ("Quizmaster" - Ed) SNP, with Salmond. When elected he simply said we will have a referendum on independence. He didn’t equivocate, or publicly state that he must seek London’s permission. It rightly put the sh*tes up Westminster, and so the section 30 was agreed.
Like I say the current SNP have zero understanding of how to deal with a colonial thug like Westminster.
But, beyond all that, as Rev STU points out, their has been a pro indy majority since 2014, and any genuine politician who genuinely wanted independence would have gone ahead and done it. The SNP are locked in a colonial mindset that they must beg permission for this and that from Westminster.
Their is an old saying, and it is so very, very true. Power is not given, it is taken. Salmond knew it, but the current clowns in the Scottish government are just cowards of the very worst kind. Feart to actually stand up for Scotland, feart to even attend independence marches, feart to act without begging London’s blessing first.
London and England is f***ed. I mean seriously, it is right royally f***ed. NOW is the time to strike, NOW is the time for independence. Not next year, mibbes, if the English pretendy ‘supreme’ court ‘allows’ it, but NOW.
I just want independence for Scotland. I want out of this English colonial sh*tshow. I do not care how or who gets us it, I just want independence, and away from this corrupt craven, colonial, bullying, theiving, criminal English colonial governance.
I look forward to seeing Nicola Sturgeon at the indy march in Edinburgh tomorrow. Aye, right! An utter fraud, if ever their was one. She’ll probably phone London for ‘permission’.
Oh breeks at 0420am,
Possibly your best post ever. I like that last sentence;
“If the Claim of Right can remove a King from his throne, it can remove a charlatan and betrayer from her seat.”
@Breeks says:29 September, 2022 at 4:20 am
“If the Claim of Right can remove a King from his throne, it can remove a charlatan and betrayer from her seat.”
Maybes, Breeks. A lot of heavy lifting being done by that “If” though.
Sure and isn’t there a poem and/or song called “If”?
That’s a work of fiction too.
If we genuinely had a pro indy leader in Scotland, they would this very day, announce an indy referendum by the end of this year. Then sit back and watch as the money markets in London crash. It is called leverage.
I hope their is a good turnout in Edinburgh on Saturday, for the independence march.
Thinking of breeks comment at 0420am, to paraphrase the declaration of Abrborath;
‘..Yet if she should give up what she has begun, seeking to make us or our country subject to the rule of England or the English, we should exert ourselves at once to drive her out as our enemy and a subverter of her own right and ours, and make some other Scot who was well able to defend us our leader…’
Independence for Scotland by ANY means, with or without the SNP and Sturgeon.
Our resident over-achiever, Hatuey, makes his predictions above.
I’ll make mine.
The Tories have nailed shut their own coffin with Truss inside it. She won’t be resurrected, even given a national emergency of 1940’s proportions.
Starmer is in next, mostly because it’s … erm, his turn, but also because see Truss above, etc. etc.
The tide of SNP support in Scotland being on the ebb, some voters will simply follow the fashion and turn to Labour, which is going to be polished up to look bright and shiny and new, and will have “learned from the mistakes of the past”.
Will this be the result of “BBC propaganda”, or will it simply be sovereign Scots using their votes as they see fit? I predict 5 years of interminable wrangling BTL on here, or on its successors.
Look on the bright side. Maybes Blackford, and some of the other ones few can name, will be sent hamewards, tae think again.
@Robert Louis says:29 September, 2022 at 7:08 am
“sit back and watch as the money markets in London crash”
You left out the bit about the popcorn, Bob.
Here’s the thing. When/if the money markets crash, millions of Scots will see their savings/pensions/investments wiped out.
Not a problem if you sit in your bedroom, posting fatuous comments online all day, although even somebody in that lucky situation might want to ponder where their benefits come from.
But for many of us Scots, as the over-achieving Hatuey observes above, it’s a wee bit more complicated.
Now, obviously, I am prepared to live the rest of my life in an unheated hovel, subsisting on oatmeal and water, if that is what it will take to gain Scotland’s freedom.
But I don’t presume to speak for anybody else.
I don’t think the current weak SNP leadership is against an independence referendum per se. It just seems to be that it (and one woman in particular) is terrified of losing one and has no idea how to win one. Bad combination. The only option is to scrabble about looking for something easy to be decisive about. Someone easy to pick on.GRA, climate change anyone?
So that’s it.
No amount of votes, no amount of mandate, no amount of public opinion, in fact nothing at all will give Scotland its independence save the agreement of England.
Or at least that is what this freak Hunter at the heart of the SNP commend clique says.
So what then is the reason for voting for the SNP.
Time we cleared the SNP out. And you know what that is about to become reality. Real resentment against the useless non delivering SNP is now building across the electorate.
I say this too as an ex 37 year member.
Sturgeon should face up to the reality that the SNP are a busted flush,,and wrap up the Party Conference next week with this appropriate little jingle from Nat King Cole.
“The Party’s Over”.
youtu.be/pJdjm0GERcg
Very apt lyrics.
“The party’s over
It’s time to call it a day
They’ve burst your pretty balloon
And taken the moon away
It’s time to wind up the masquerade
Just make your mind up the piper must be paid
The party’s over
The candles flicker and dim
You danced and dreamed through the night
It seemed to be right just being with him
Now you must wake up, all dreams must end
Take off your makeup, the party’s over
It’s all over, my friend.”
The majority of posters on here realise that Sturgeon and the SNP are the ones preventing the push for Independence. The SNP under achievers are simply too comfortable in their troughs and have ready made excuses for their many disasters. All of them are themes on ‘it is all Westminster’s fault’. Lots of people in Scotland currently believe that!
If Independence is somehow miraculously achieved in the short term. say the next 5-10 years, it will be with the SNP running the show. This scenario is just as frightening as the current Tory shambles in Westminster.
There is no ready answer. I see few people within the political sphere in Scotland, from any Party, whom I would trust to run a successful Independent Scotland. I won’t mention MONEY as this seems to upset those with tartan blood in their veins. I do however suspect that the lack of it, over the coming years, might influence their thoughts.
70% of the electorate have no real interest in ‘Politics’ other than what they are fed by the media. A significant number do not even bother to vote.
There are 2 main issues before the real Independence movement
1) How to get rid of Sturgeon. When she goes the SNP will disintegrate
2) How do we influence the media to report the reality of how things currently stand in Scotland.
Mr Salmond is on record saying he has the ammo to achieve the first. Now is as good a time as any to use it. Although I do accept that ‘timing’ is crucial.
The second is more difficult. Stu does his very best but unfortunately his target audience is limited. If he had a weekly column in one of the National newspapers, this would help but who would employ him?
Of course we could always bleat on here endlessly about 300 year old treaties etc, in which only a very small number are remotely interested.
Solutions have to be practical and realistic. I don’t see any on here. All I see is wishful thinking and desperation.
Well at last the evidence of federal state. The only hope for Independence now is Alba and ISP rising and gaining seats in councils and Holyrood. Independence is now back 10 years as these parties will take time to reach a majority.
I was pleasantly surprised when the SNP declared that the election would be a de-facto referendum. Of course I assumed that meant declaring independence if won. I underestimated the timidity of the modern SNP. God help us.
Mhairi Hunter’s comment tells you that she does not understand international norms. Nor what it means to be sovereign. These 2 basics should see her removed from office as she cannot perform the primary obligations of her job as a Scottish government representative.
Her comment basically states that a sovereign nation state party to a binary international treaty must have consent from its treaty partner to denounce the treaty it is party to.
This first of all ignores the inalienable sovereign right of states which entitles every state party to a treaty to unilaterally denounce said treaty, a right which is further enshrined in the VC and UN Charter among others, and that as a sovereign nation state Scotland has the ultimate/supreme authority which means no act, government or court of England (whether classed as WM/UK or otherwise) has any say on the matter or any matter pertaining to Scotland.
The reason why she makes this ridiculous claim is because many folk genuinely do not understand what it means to be sovereign or Scotland’s true status. She hopes that folk will simply take her comment at face value and believe it as they have done when the Scottish gov (MPs) claim that their devolved admin (MSPs) has authority over them but is beholden to the English (WM/UK) Government, their mere treaty partner. This lie is told so often that Scots repeat the claim when they say, in the same breath, that Scots are sovereign (have supreme authority) – a claim backed up in law – but Scottish matters are reserved to their treaty partner – England (WM/UK).
It has been abundantly clear for many years that SNP have no intention of suspending the treaty let alone denouncing it. Scots need to completely bypass their government who do not even recognise themselves as the government of the sovereign state of Scotland (this is the real difference between Scotland and England. The English government, political parties and establishment do recognise themselves as the government of the sovereign state of England. It is why they will always band together despite political differences. At the end of the day the sovereignty of England is sacrosanct. Scotland on the otherhand doesn’t even know the difference between their government and their admin and where each sits let alone where authority lies.)
Perhaps understanding these aspects will stop Scottish representatives from pretending they are powerless to act on any matter as Scots will finally hold them fully to account.
As said above, it is time to bypass the SNP Scottish government. They are happy to sit bak and watch the destruction of Scotland and its people so long as they personally benefit from the status quo. The Act of Salvo has been enacted and the Proclamation of Edinburgh made. Now to take it to the next level and get it internationally recognised.
It’s been obvious for a while that the current SNP is to all intents and purposes a devolutionary party. It’s become the IPP, but without even their stomach for disrupting Westminster. Echoing what some others are saying above, the only way the movement will make progress in the short to medium term is if the SNP rank and file membership reclaim their party from the Sturgeonite cabal. The precedent of the failed attempt to cleanse the NEC the other November is hardly encouraging in that regard.
Only a revitalised SNP which accepts that it has to work in concert with other pro independence parties and accepts that a majority of 50% + 1 votes (NOT MPs or MSPs!) is a de facto Declaration of Independence, not just yet another mandate for another referendum, is capable of delivering the result we want in a reasonable timescale. Destroying the SNP or trying to replace it the way Sinn Fein replaced the IPP isn’t going to happen quickly.
The onus is on current SNP members and supporters to act: either they cleanse their party, or defect. If they don’t, we can assume they are intensely relaxed about independence being delayed for the “real” generation yoons keep banging on about. The responsibility for that doesn’t lie with the British nationalists, it lies with the SNP. Time for their members to put up, or shut up.
Rab Davis,
Sorry I did not respond to you yesterday, got very busy sawing wood, with hubby.
It does not matter about the snp or NS running the english devolved in Scotland we are well aware of the historical MO since 2014, It is globalist in its actions.
Unless you have a fairy wand it ain’t gonna change, changing your lead horse does not change the carriage it is pulling.
And its the carriage that is the dead weight.
I tend not to look at the smaller details in this case, but at the bigger problem,
It is short sighted to believe that the devolved government will suddenly change into a Scottish government if we change the leader,
All leaders of parties swear an oath to the Crown, upon entering the devolved government to work wether SNP, tories or labour, lib dems.
All parties we vote for are supposed to represent the Scots whom voted for them,
The Scottish people are Sovereign.
All the political party members in the devolved government abandon you or I as our represenatives as soon as they swear an oath to the crown,
They then represent the British government and king Charles.
Not Scots or Scotland.
Rab Davis,
That is why you will never hear a union man or woman in Scotland shouting Out with the Devolved government,
Everyone who shouts “off with her head” (metaphorically) at NS is only wanting to be leader for themselves,
those that do best at stopping Scottish independence from the devolved government get rewards, not from the Scottish people, but from England, then they can collect their ermine and titles from Westminster.
Or a high globalist office after they leave as leader of Scotland,
That should tell you all you need to know about the devolved government not representing Scotland or its people.
Changing leaders for another just as like minded, in the same government structure will not help Scotland,
As the laws and the method of the Structure in Scotland are not Scottish.
Scott,
Hi, I apologise that I couldn’t respond to you earlier Re “it does not matter who is leader in the devolved government in Scotland.”
It doesn’t,
It it still a english government that was is partially devolved to Scotland for management branch office purposes.
Any one that enters that building and swears an oath to the crown, ( No matter who it is) immediately is working for king Charles government, and throwing away yours and my Scottish Sovereignty as our representitives,
Thus They have no intention of gaining Independence for Scots and Scotland.
BBC radio Shortbread aka radio Scotland, bumming up Sturgeon’s performance at FMQs today. Sturgeon dodged difficult question on the ferries fiasco, and the price Scots pay for energy, instead she focused on the PMs mini-budget.
You know whose side your FMs on when the oppositions main propaganda and state broadcaster takes her side.
The UK government are in turmoil yet again, and our treacherous FM still won’t get us out of this union. It’s obvious that she isn’t interested in saving Scots from this awful union, she’s determined to make sure Scots suffer this union for as long as she’s FM.
SNP selling off the Kelvingrove Art Gallery and Museum and the City’s Chambers and other assets to pay costs.
https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailyrecord.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fpolitics%2Fglasgow-council-sell-city-chambers-28110797
Of course, the SNP as a whole has wasted a hundred of million of Scottish taxpayer’s cash on the Ferries fiasco, and roughly £10 million on trying to imprison Salmond, not to mention other irregularities.
I have nothing against the monarchy in general,
But monarchy should be a little better behaved than the British monarchy have been,
In Scotland we are supposed to hold the monarchy to account as we are Sovereign,
But our monarchy have had dodgy dealings and characters for a good length of time.
If you swear oaths and allegiance’s to a monarch in the Scottish devolved government then you are stating that you have no wish to be sovereign to hold them to account in Scotland.
All that enter the devolved government give Scottish their sovereignty away.
As a represenitives of your scottish sovereignty, how do you feel about any Scottish independence party doing this to you?
Rev. stu – I’m glad you’re still writing these posts despite the fact that they’re so depressing.
I’m not an expert but I think the Catalunyan situation is an interesting parallel. Spain is a very young state in its current iteration and people’s cultural identity there is quite complicated – but it’s very clear that destabilizing one of the constituent members of the EU was completely unacceptable to many other states. It’s illogical to presume that the UK will be willing to let Scotland leave the union at any point in the next 20 years. The passage of time might change things – younger generations are much more pro-independence, and a large majority (of 60-70%?) would be more difficult to refuse – but that’s one heck of a gamble to take when you’ve had a series of terrible governments.
I think the SNP should just campaign for the next election with the clear stance that they’ll unilaterally declare independence if they win a majority of the vote. I think I could write the manifesto for them – it would go like this: ‘Do you really think Scotland would be worse off as an independent country than as part of a state that has followed Boris Johnson’s government with Liz Truss?’ As a government, they could ask public services and all organizations to start contingency planning for this eventuality.
Like you’ve suggested repeatedly, the SNP have a clear democratic mandate to declare independence now – a far stronger mandate than the Truss government has. The current situation will inevitably lead to the fracturing of the independence movement. But from the outside it looks as if some SNP MPs /MSP’s have been dazzled by the comfort of their political lifestyle and have forgotten why they were elected into power in the first place.
To be sung at the SNP conference to the tune of Joseph Haydn’s ‘Gott erhalte Franz den Kaiser’:
Glorious things that she has spoken,
All from Nicola she’s our God.
Promises that have been broken,
We don’t really give a sod.
Plastic fannies
For the trannies
What are women? We won’t say.
Salmond busted,
Ferries Rusted,
Independence? Not today
Did A S, swear an oath of allegiance to the Queen when he entered the devolved government as first minster?
If So, why did he offer up Scottish peoples Sovereignty to the Crown?
This is the problem of our voted for Scottish representatives, they sell “theirs” and our Scottish Sovereignty for a seat of position in a english constructed devolved government,
This is what happened in 1706/ 1707,
Why are they so proud to sit in english constructed parliaments and readily give up their integrity. and honour.
Same reasons I suppose, they feel inadequate as a Scot in their self esteem.
It is all very well king Charles recognising the Scottish claim of Right as in the political treaty of the union, in his assession speech,
Then taken that Claim of Right back from the Sovereign Scottish people through the structure of the devolved government members swearing a oath of allegiance to him through the back door.
Playing Smoke and mirrors with Scots Sovereignty.
Andy Ellis, you put a lot of emphasis on the rank and file SNP membership doing something to remove the current leadership and getting things back on course.
When other people suggest things like that you ask for details of how it can happen and a timeframe.
So, please provide details of how you think that might happen and a timeframe.
Please don’t consider that an invitation to inject more flimflam.
Coverts, and the converted.
We go to the polling stations and vote, to lend our sovereignty.
We vote in our chosen representatives of what we want and how we feel. With that sovereignty.
The winning candidates you chose promise you all your dreams to come true near enough.
Off they trot down to holyrood parliament with your lent Sovereignty.
When they arrive, the first thing they do is betray you by giving your lent sovereignty to the Crown, through an oath of allegiance,
They are no longer obliged to follow your mandates, but to follow the Crowns,
The Crown sits in Westminster parliament.
Your scots Sovereignty has now completed its transition as given.
Scots Sovereignty is now under the english Westminster parliament.
The fault lies with the UKs insistence that all whom become a member of the devolved government in Scotland must swear allegiance to the Crown.
No one in the devolved government in Scotland is now obliged to follow your Scottish Sovereign vote.
It has been lent and tranferred down south.
Through the mechanisms of the devolved governments oath of allegiance to the monarchy crown in Westminster the Scots will never get what they vote for.
The problem is not just the snp’s willingness or any other political for that matter to be a ("Tractor" - Ed) to the Scottish voter, it is the insistence of the Westminster construction in Scotland that insists this is done to the Scottish voter.
I’d love to say I believe the SNP in their claim to be better for Scotland and pro-Indy.
Unfortunately, I’m currently occupied picking up some stuffing that appears to be falling from the back of my head. I must be missing a button somewhere.
Anyone got a hand-held mirror I can borrow? I can’t quite see where the problem is…
https://twitter.com/FOWingsScot/status/1575515136315490305
Well said that woman!
James Che @ 3:44 pm
“The Crown sits in Westminster parliament”
And Scottish Ministers are ‘agents’ of the Crown, which helps explain why we are going nowhere near independence with SNP elected ‘nationalist’ majorities.
@Hatuey 3.12 pm
Andy Ellis, you put a lot of emphasis on the rank and file SNP membership doing something to remove the current leadership and getting things back on course.
When other people suggest things like that you ask for details of how it can happen and a timeframe.
So, please provide details of how you think that might happen and a timeframe.
Please don’t consider that an invitation to inject more flimflam.
There’s no flim flam involved in my original post, but I wouldn’t expect any other response from you and your ilk naturally.
The SNP membership are the only ones capable of doing the job of changing the SNP in the “reasonable” short to medium terms timescale (absent Sturgeon and her cabal being barred from office or jailed for som reason….and good luck with that!), because the only other way is to wait for the electorate to use their votes to give the party a bloody nose. Sadly, lots will still vote for them even if Sturgeon and her team are still in charge.
I have very little faith that “cunning plans for indy” will produce results in the short to medium term, however hard their proponents wish otherwise. Of course I may be proven wrong and will happily eat humble pie and admit my egregious error if Salvo and/or SSRG or anyone else waft us to the sunny uplands of independence in 2023.
In fact, I’d say it’s probably more likely that the SNP will be changed from within as a result of electoral set backs at the next GE (whether its HR or WM) than it is that “cunning plans” will bear fruit, but if that’s how things play out we’re already talking about what then happens after the election which could be a few years away.
As I’ve said before, I’d love Sturgeon (or an SNP without Sturgeon if that could be arranged) to deliver an ultimatum that the refusal of a S30 order would result in her resigning as FM and precipitating early plebiscitary HR elections, by which I mean real plebiscitary elections where 50% + 1 votes equals de facto independence, not just a mandate for another referendum. Sadly I don’t see that happening absent some political earthquake. Sturgeon isn’t ever going to do that, and I have my doubts the SNP without Sturgeon would do it either.
So that leaves us in the hands of the SNP membership. They’re the only ones in a position to effect change before the next scheduled GE. If that doesn’t happen, and assuming there is no deus ex machina in the form of a political crisis which presents us with a better opportunity, then the alternative is to do to the SNP what Sinn Fein did to the IPP. Timescale wise I think we’re looking at 5 years minimum.
Different alternative futures are of course available.
MaggieC says:
28 September, 2022 at 4:14 pm
Rev Stu,
“Just to let you know that I’ve not received an email about this post, I wonder if this has happened to anyone else ?”
I didn’t get one either.
Alf Baird.
Precisely so Alf,
So independence will never come to Scotland through the devolved government or any sworn in members to the Crown regardless of party or political leaders, they no longer hold allegiance to the Scots in Scotland.
This is something that all of us are just beginning to realise,
The structual instrument of the the devolved government converts the Scottish Sovereign vote to englands parliament automatically the Crown and through our representative betraying us upon entering holyrood devolved parliament.
SNP selling off the Kelvingrove Art Gallery and Museum and the City’s Chambers and other assets to pay costs.
Strange non of the U.K. media outlets care to mention this is Labour’s bill as it was they who paid for layers to fight for 10 years to stop equal pay for women.
Even SNP spokesperson did like to lay the blame for this where it belongs.
What are they using for brains?
James Che @ 2:15pm Alex Salmond’s oath is at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzuUE8PUiqs
If a foreign government imposes a particular oath on another parliament, it seems to me that there there is very little the major opposition party can do, other than what the SNP under Alex Salmond did then.
“John Main says:
29 September, 2022 at 6:57 am
Sure and isn’t there a poem and/or song called “If”?”
There is; a poem by Kipling. “If you can keep your head when all around you are losing theirs…” and so on.
It was also the basis of a very good logic/poetry cartoon in Private Eye recently.
Ruby 5.39pm
Eddie izzard is NOT a wummin???
Well my flabber is well and truly gasted.
And all these years I could have sworn Mrs Izzard was woman,,,She looked so genuine.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but LIZ G ( wings over scotland stall ) passed away this morning . She’ll be sadly missed RIP LIZ .
I would like to hope that some good comes out of the impending crash in the economy.
Could it be the dynamite that is laid under the arses of our comotose Scottish electorate and drive them into the arms of the Scottish independence movement.
The problem with that Idea is that you need a strong Indy leader who is going to light the touch paper and lead the Indy charge.
Unfortunately our leader is the worst Indy leader in living memory,,,,and going by her track record, will probably miss this gaping open goal.
If, by any chance there is any SNP member reading this post,,,, will you be brave enough to take to the floor at next week’s SNP Conference and tell Sturgeon her time is up,,, that you and your fellow members have absolutely NO confidence left in her leadership and she must resign at the earliest opportunity.
Please,, just one of you grow a pair,,, Scotland is depending on you.
James Che
There is nothing “the crown” can do to stop the people of Scotland, duly represented by their chosen political leaders, from declaring an iScotland.
NOTHING
Just at there was nothing “the crown” could do to stop the UK joining the EEC.
NOTHING
And nothing “the crown” could do to stop WM ratifying the Maastricht and Lisbon treaties.
NOTHING NOTHING
Nothing “the crown” could do to stop Brexit.
NOTHING
Nothing to stop the Iraq war, blowing up of sorely needed coal-fired power stations, Covid in house imprisonment, the establishment of the Hollyrood house for pointless gentlefolk, or Blundertruss tanking the pound.
NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING
The Crown does not have any control over the democratic process in the UK, nor in Scotland, Northern Ireland or Wales.
It’s a simple enough concept to grasp.
I specifically requested no flimflam.
He gave me flimflam.
You almost arrived at the essential truth of the situation but pulled back at the last minute, Andy…
Independence isn’t possible through the ballot box. Actually it’s even bleaker than that — the ballot box isn’t possible through the ballot box.
Scottish politics is a rigged deck.
@ Merganser says:29 September, 2022 at 2:13 pm
Great lyrics.
I don’t know the music you name, but in ma heid, I tried “Ode To Joy” from Beethoven’s ninth and it seemed to fit well.
And, after catching some of our glorious leader’s performance at FM questions today, Ode To Joy is what may have been elevating my heart rate and blurring my vision.
Maybes.
@ John Main
“Queen’s lawyers secured amendment to Scottish green energy law”
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-58005875
Hi ronnie anderson at 6:55 pm.
You let us know,
“Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but LIZ G ( wings over scotland stall ) passed away this morning . She’ll be sadly missed RIP LIZ.”
That’s a shock! She always struck me as ‘hale and hearty’. She’ll be missed WHEN we, eventually, get the WOS stall back in action.
Ach Ronnie, really sorry to read that sad news about Liz. 🙁
I’d noticed she hadn’t been commenting recently. She was always a friendly face to chat to at the Wings stalls, and she also wrote many a decent and balanced post btl here on Wings.
May she rest in peace.
Craig Murray’s written a fairly good summation of why the SNP had to submit an intervention to the SC case, which, kinda, contradicts Bain’s submission.
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2022/09/dorothy-bain-incompetent-or-corrupt/
Brainwave!!!
What if we all RE-JOIN the SNP.
We then put forward a vote of no confidence in the present leader,and then pick a leader of our choosing.
Or doesn’t it work like that anymore?
Back to square one!!!
@ Rab Davis
A few of years back I suggested it would be an easier / better option due to lower membership numbers for folk to join and takeover Labour in Scotland and actually turn them into a Pro Scottish Indy Labour Party.
@Hatuey says:29 September, 2022 at 7:34 pm
“Independence isn’t possible through the ballot box”
Let me correct that one.
The specific flavour of Independence that appeals to Hatuey isn’t possible through the ballot box, because a stubborn and recalcitrant 50% of Scots want no part of it.
Assuming that Hatuey, as resident over-achiever on here, speaks for many, that leaves the Indy movement with a choice.
Expand the constituency of Scots who will vote yes by changing the flavour of Indy on offer. For example, bring the monarchists on board by toning down the hysterical republicanism. Stop insisting that a vote for Indy is a vote for EU federalism, by toning down the Brexit hysterics. Get some Scottish Tories on side by appealing to their natural, human desire to get on in the world and stop insisting that iScotland will be a shirkers paradise where the feckless end up with the same as the grafters.
OR
Continue on the same losing path for the next decade, endlessly insisting that only the ideologically purist strain of Indy is acceptable.
It’s 97% inevitable which choice Hatuey goes for. But for the rest of the usual suspects on here, there may still be hope.
Brian Doonthetoon says:
29 September, 2022 at 7:41 pm
That’s a shock! She always struck me as ‘hale and hearty’. She’ll be missed WHEN we, eventually, get the WOS stall back in action.
Liz G? Oh no. I always liked and appreciated her comments on here. Genuinely sorry to hear that.
Rab Davis says:
29 September, 2022 at 7:46 pm
Brainwave!!!
What if we all RE-JOIN the SNP.
What if we joined ALBA and SALVO instead…
John Main @ 7.39pm
The tune is known also as ‘Austria’. It is the music to the German National Anthem as well as the well known hymn ‘glorious things of thee are spoken’ by John Newton.
@Hatuey
Talking of flim flam……
Independence isn’t possible through the ballot box. Actually it’s even bleaker than that — the ballot box isn’t possible through the ballot box.
Utter bollocks of course, but hardly unexpected given your MO. It’s not going to be achieved except via the ballot box. The fact some people are enamoured with the “cunning plan for indy” route doesn’t mean it’s going to produce results.
Breeks
Yes, in an ideal world ALBA would be the way to go.
I was thinking more in the immediate future,,, Sturgeon is the roadblock that needs cleared out of the way right now.
I’m just going through different scenarios as to best unseat Sturgeon within the next year or so.
I am already a fully paid up member of ALBA, but they are more of a wake call to the troughers of the SNP in the short term.
Sturgeon holds nearly all the cards,,,not them all,,, that is why we need to keep thinking of different ways of ending her reign of terror.
One day, one of our ideas will do the trick,,, God loves a trier.
@Dan says:29 September, 2022 at 7:41 pm
@ John Main
“Queen’s lawyers secured amendment to Scottish green energy law”
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-58005875
Dan,
Fair point but no knock out blow.
To deliver the KO that flattens my argument, you would have to come up with an example where The Crown worked to stop a democratically arrived at law or plebiscite being put into universal effect.
Simply seeking a personal or institutional exemption to a law is not in the same league.
Here’s another example supporting my argument. The famous call from Cameron to The Queen at which she “purred with pleasure” at being told No had won.
If the vote had gone the other way, she may well have howled with grief, but DC would still have been calling her up to tell her what was going to happen, whether she liked it or naw.
In summary, “The Crown” can no more stop us Scots becoming independent than can the 1745 Duke of Cumberland.
And it’s ludicrous to maintain otherwise.
Andy Ellis
Whilst I admire your tenacity in continually responding to the oddballs and the nutters give yourself a break and let them wallow in their deluded self importance.
Although I have to admit that the latest drivel ‘Independence is not possible via the ballot box’ is up there with the best of the tripe they post.
Did you not know the fairies will bring it very soon. Mind you I see a few on here that are ‘away with the fairies!
@Brian
Craig Murray’s written a fairly good summation of why the SNP had to submit an intervention to the SC case, which, kinda, contradicts Bain’s submission.
Seconded. Powerful stuff from Craig: shows the SNP up as the devolusionists they really are.
You have told it exactly as it is rev and it makes me sick to my stomach.
I do drone on about this but i still don`t understand why there isn`t a rebellion amongst at least some in the SNP at this betrayal. Are they all so shallow and base that they are just in it for the money and don`t give a sod for independence.
Brian @ 7.44
Craig’s article is well worth a read.
I have been posting for weeks that the Plebs Biscuity election is a con and will achieve nothing but bums back on seats for the SNP troughers, and this article spells out why that is the case.
I hope more people (including Andy Ellis) will now see the trap they have fallen into , and stop promoting it as the way forward.
Ronnie , so sorry to hear that like Brian I thought of her as full of energy and she was the woman who halved my ironing in one piece of advice – go crumpled ,body heat will deal with the worst wrinkly bits in the clothes ,( obviously!).
This is a calculated betrayal, in plain sight, that still feels shocking to me. Like many others, I spent so much time, energy and money in campaigning for a political party which was mandated to “ get Independence done “. The SNP is now known to be a complete sham- “ a thing that is not what it is purported to be “.
Sturgeon has presided over a litany of abject failures in governance. As a failed lawyer, she was found guilty of professional misconduct and a dereliction of duty in respect of a client who was a victim of domestic abuse. How can a “ feminist to her fingertips “, in her own words, fail to protect a vulnerable and distressed woman in need of legal protection?
She has failed to listen to the legitimate and serious concerns about womens’ rights and safe spaces ( not valid, it seems ) , endangered by the mindless progressivism of the SNP’s fetishistic, deviant and downright dangerous GRA ideology.
I am ashamed and horrified in equal measure the Sturgeon believes that children have the capacity to understand and consent to life changing medication and mutilation at the Sandyford Clinic in Glasgow. Her GRA poison is seeping into our schools.
She conspired to “ get “ Alex Salmond and others. The never ending list goes on. How much more will her loyal voting fodder thole? A scots word meaning endure, something the scots seem to excel at.
In Dante’s Inferno, the deepest circle of hell was reserved for the Judases, the betrayers.
Very sorry to hear about Liz G. May she rest in peace.
Great lyrics Merganser. Thank you.
@Merganser 9.17 pm
I don’t accept it’s a trap. Plebiscitary elections (real ones, not the SNP’s milquetoast version as preparation for asking for another mandate) are the only route to achieving independence in the short to medium term.
There isn’t going to be a referendum, and putting faith in “cunning plans for indy” is just magical thinking unless you already have an overwhelming majority in support.
That *might* happen at some point in the future and we can do to the SNP what Sinn Fein did to the IPP, but people who place their faith in methods other than the ballot box are punting independence in to the long grass.
@Andy Ellis says:29 September, 2022 at 9:40 pm
“people who place their faith in methods other than the ballot box”
IMO it’s always the same one or two perps.
Each time I read one of their posts, I see an image of Viz’s Big Vern “getting the toys aht”.
My bad. The reality is no laughing matter.
Christine @ 9.32.
Inferno, the first book of the Divine Comedy. The Sturgeon government is a comedy, but there is nothing divine about it. Circles 8 and 9 represent Fraud and Treachery. Enough said.
Will Scotland progress through purgatory and paradise and eventually see the light? Only when the fraudsters and the betrayers are removed.
Very sad news about Liz G, my condolences to her loved ones.
Andy Ellis @ 9.17
At last you see the point: Sturgeon’s ‘de facto referendum’ has no teeth, no point whatsoever on its own and is now admitted to be effectively worthless by Sturgeon’s right hand spokesperson. (Except to get the SNP back in charge for another term)
There is a hope that there is a split starting in the SNP, as Craig indicates, which has tried hard to put a stronger case to the Court for a meaningful, legal referendum, but Sturgeon has pulled the rug on their arguments by publicly conceding what she has and making them make a similar concession.
That split needs to be widened. How much momentum it has will be seen at the forthcoming conference. Fingers crossed.
Bad news re the SNP intervention in the Scot gov case to the Supreme Court from Craig Murray’s blog today: the SNP intervention was only permitted by N Sturgeon on condition that the SNP explicitly stated that they are NOT arguing that they can secede without Westminster’s permission.
I am speechless. WHAT is the point of the intervention then? And what is the point of Sturgeon?
A glimmer of hope comes from the fact that, per Craig, NS was forced to allow the intervention because about 20 MPs were outraged at the feeble submission by Dorothy Bain. Please God these MPs find some backbone and start opposing the evil ones currently running the party.
Back to the gloom, however – Bain is to pursue some truly frightening pieces of legislation – abolish the non-proven verdict; abolish jury trials in sex assault cases; GRA. Terrifying.
Craig Murray’s latest confirms the point; a referendum on independence isn’t possible through the ballot box as long as Westminster says it isn’t, a plebiscitary election can’t lead to independence without Westminster’s consent, and here’s the best bit; it isn’t Westminster that’s saying all that, it’s the so-called party of independence.
The most “cunning” and far-fetched moon-howling plan for independence that currently exists is officially the idea that it’s possible by conventional means through the ballot box.
That might change but at the moment and for as far ahead into the future as I am able to reasonably predict, I don’t see where the change is likely to come from.
Feel free to enlighten me, but I bet you can’t do so without stringing together a bunch of things that don’t seem possible or very likely right now. In other words, I bet you can’t do it without entering into the realms of pure fantasy.
Like I said, Scottish politics is a rigged deck.
Like others posting I was sorry to hear of Liz G’s passing and I pay respect to her loved ones , the good thing about Liz is she stood for no nonsense , she was down to earth and appreciated the fact that others didn’t always agree with things that were being proposed but never failed to put her point across diplomatically , INDY has lost another WARRIOR
Craig Murray.
That’s about it.
Next UK General Election could be as late as January 2025, so still two and a bit years away.
Next HR election could be as late as May 2026, so still three and a half years away.
Anybody claiming there can’t be any changes to the political landscape in Scotland over these time periods is effectively saying there is something politically wrong with us.
Because in other European countries, these time scales allow for the emergence, growth, and assumption of office by new groups, parties and politicians. And the adoption of quite radically new policies.
The new PM of Italy being just the latest of that ilk.
Are we really believing that in the next three and a half years of perma-crisis, the political logjam at HR will remain ummoved? The same, tired and discredited faces will shout meaningless insults at each other, day after day? The same half-hearted apologies for ineptitude, laziness and low-level corruption will be tholed by us Scots?
Naw. Seems most unlikely to me.
Condolences to everyone who knew and campaigned with Liz G.
🙁
https://tinyurl.com/mpfkp92
“Do you think you are smarter? What’s your tiny age?” His father thundered as his mother timidly scooped him out of the scene and sent him out to play.
One day, the boy saw a gathering at a distance. He climbed up a tree and spotted the flag of the royal chariot jutting up above the crowd . He heard horses gallop in unison and people chatter with excitement. “The Royal procession!!”, the boy said excitedly. He swiftly jumped down the tree and ran towards the crowd to see the king.
After squeezing his way through the crowd, he was finally able to find place in the front row of the gathering,
Lo and Behold!! The Emperor was perched on the chariot puffed up in pride. He was stark naked! He had a grandiose smile on his face. People showered songs of praise. The clergy clapped. The procession moved forward slowly with trumpets playing and horses trotting in a rhythmic ‘clippety clop’.
Someone whispered “Clothes can only be seen by people who are clever”
I often feel a bit like the child in this story in that I get a sense that something isnae right.
For example I questioned why Dorothy Bain didn’t know what the law was vis-à-vis Holyrood holding a referendum and had to ask the SC. It turns out she didn’t know the law or was pretending she didn’t know the law.
Again with the ‘de facto referendum’ my gut feeling was something no right about that. It seems more & more people are coming to that conclusion.
Way back when Mark MacDonald was fired for sending a text I was highly suspicious of Sturgeon. Turns out I was correct to be suspicious.
“Clothes can only be seen by people who are clever”
I’m going to stick with my gut feelings ‘cos I don’t want to start seeing clothes that aren’t there.
There are advantages to being ‘pork’ as in ‘you can’t educate pork’ a phrase often used by Andy Ellis to describe me.
ronnie anderson says 6:55 pm
“Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but LIZ G ( wings over scotland stall ) passed away this morning . She’ll be sadly missed RIP LIZ”
Very sad and unexpected news Ronnie, I heard last night from Gillian. Liz always seemed to be in good health when we were doing the Wings stall, but of course it’s been quite a while since we’ve all been together. She will be missed. Condolences to all who have been touched by her passing.
T’is over…now…if theres no action…if theres no rage..now.
T’is done….goodbye and good luck…..slaves!
Chas says:
29 September, 2022 at 8:46 pm
Andy Ellis
Whilst I admire your tenacity in continually responding to the oddballs and the nutters give yourself a break and let them wallow in their deluded self importance.
It would appear you are asking the impossible. How would you explain Ellis taking a “time out” from ignoring me to post these two mile long posts?
See
https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-meaning-of-tolerance/#comment-2705567
https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-meaning-of-tolerance/#comment-2705569
These ‘Apartheid Boys’ as I call them made the decision to ignore all ‘the oddballs and the nutters’ a week or so ago but they don’t seem to be able to carry it through.
Mark Boyle has either decided that everyone is an ‘oddballs or a nutter’ or is now using a different moniker.
What about you Chas are you one of ‘Apartheid Boys’ are your posts exclusively for Andy Ellis, John Main
& Mark Boyle?
Looking forward to your reply to this ‘oddball & nutter’s’ post?
@John Main 9.55 pm
I reckon you’re right. The “cunning plans for indy” mob represent a fraction of those who are actively engaged in Scots politics, whether on sites like this and/or in conventional politics via parties, Yes groups or other interest groups. Oddly they seem to have somehow convinced themselves that they have traction in the broader movement and in the general population and that their desired outcomes will happen because *reasons*.
@Merganser 10.24 pm
At last you see the point: Sturgeon’s ‘de facto referendum’ has no teeth, no point whatsoever on its own and is now admitted to be effectively worthless by Sturgeon’s right hand spokesperson. (Except to get the SNP back in charge for another term)
Well no, because as Stu just finished pointing out it wasn’t clear at the time the SNP first announced their change of policy what they *actually* planned. Just as there was confusion at the time about whether they meant a majority of seats and/or a majority of seats, it now seems clear that their view is that a victory in a plebiscitary election is just another mandate to add to the mandate cupboard.
It makes you wonder if the policy was made up on the hoof. If, as Craig Murray claims, there was a rebellion by 20 or so SNP MPs, then it would explain the half baked nature of the announcement.
Whether those MPs or enough (any?) of the membership have the political cojones to challenge Sturgeon and her cabal remains to be seen. Experience to date would suggest not, but who knows. I wouldn’t bet the farm on it. I suspect things will have to get a lot worse before the scales fall from the eyes of the ultra loyal or those that are just lumpen supporters or the types who keep banging on about “eyes on the prize, why can’t well just have a group hug and sort things out after we win”.
I suspect most of us agree that there isn’t going to be another referendum any time soon, even if we disagree on little else. That being so, the $64,000 question is what we think is going to happen over the next few years, and what path has the best chance of delivering independence in the short to medium term.
It seems clear to me: the only way it’ll happen is if the SNP leadership is changed, and the movement forces early “real” plebiscitary elections. Failing that, an unreformed SNP has to be tackled head on and replaced as the engine of the independence movement, which I’d suggest is a much longer task.
If you have a quicker alternative that doesn’t involve fanciful plans for UDI, petitions and routes by-passing ballot boxes altogether…..I’m all ears!
” Expand the constituency of Scots who will vote yes by changing the flavour of Indy on offer. For example, bring the monarchists on board by toning down the hysterical republicanism. Stop insisting that a vote for Indy is a vote for EU federalism, by toning down the Brexit hysterics. Get some Scottish Tories on side by appealing to their natural, human desire to get on in the world and stop insisting that iScotland will be a shirkers paradise where the feckless end up with the same as the grafters. ”
Not sure about the last part of this statement – is anyone ” insisting iScotland will be a shirkers paradise ” John ? Can’t say I’ve noticed if they have .
The rest is sound advice .
The assumption an automatic return to EU membership in an iScotland is a guaranteed YES vote-winner is , at best , questionable . It could be the case it will only be the position of already confirmed Indy supporters ; but could be a deterrent to the crucial * undecideds * ? ” Could ” being the operative word , but why risk it ? Was the position previously not that such a decision would be put to a Referendum ? That seems to have been sidelined , replaced by an EU membership act of faith
Republicanism ( my own preference ) might be the ideal – is it not about time the notion of dynastic privilege / superiority went they way of Divine Right ? But , again , is it worth the potential foot-shooting making it a definite intention Post-Indy might entail ?
We might add to this the now carved in stone S.G shibboleth – Immigration Good ( and it’s corollary ie Critics of Immigration * Racist * ) .
Granted – given Scotland’s * demographic timebomb * of declining birth rates + increasing retirees , the need for some immigration seems inarguable ( let’s forget the OTHER * demographic timebomb * for now ) . Fair enough , but Pre-Indy , it will be necessary to lay-out as clearly and honestly as possible the nature and scale of such immigration ; where they will live ( I hear the area around Bute House is pretty nice ; also Kelvinside , Newton Mearns , in Glasgow ) and the likely impact on Social Services , Housing , NHS etc . Otherwise , this issue too could be a net YES vote-loser .
It’s already the common , public perception that the SNP are the Party of Immigration – and , to be fair , that doesn’t seem to have damaged them electorally , so far : but , come an epochal event like a Scottish Referendum , this question would take on an altogether different complexion .
For the record …..I’m not against Immigration , per se ; I just don’t assume it is an ipso facto , unalloyed good .
See Sweden
Hatuey says:
29 September, 2022 at 11:15 pm
That might change but at the moment and for as far ahead into the future as I am able to reasonably predict, I don’t see where the change is likely to come from.
Do you think it’s possible that change will come from people demanding change?
Is jockmcx correct is saying:
T’is over…now…if theres no action…if theres no rage..now.
T’is done….goodbye and good luck…..slaves!
Are people in Scotland just resigned to the fact that we are too wee, too poor, too stupid to do anything. We can’t do anything unless Nicola tells us what to do?
Do we just continue to have these social gatherings where people march about town waving the AUOB flags while being ignored by our politicians & the MSM?
I do believe people have become desensitised to these AUOB marches.
A Section 30 is the solution.
Why is everyone focusing on everything other than a Section 30?
Do we really just ‘lie back & think of England’ and accept that it’s OK for Westminster to say no to a Section 30?
Is everyone happy just to be living in a colony being dictated to by Westminster?
What does the rest of the world think of this dictatorial behavior on the part of the UK Government?
I’ll bet nobody outwith Scotland knows anything about this.
Did anyone else see the BBC trailer last night were they spent 2-3 minutes suggesting they report from wherever the story is and have it checked.
If you see it on the BBC it’s the truth.
What a sickening piece of propaganda from Westminsters favourite puppet.
How about they make a documentary on Prof John Robertson’s extensive list of how they use
tried and tested methods to make a conjured up stories look like reality.
Such a commitment, would serve to hinder or prevent future attempts at independence, as this kind of ruling or understanding would sit there as pending, for as long as the British Govt like it.
For those who would like the option of accessing RT, it streams here:
https://odysee.com/@RT:fd/livestream_RT:d
The British propaganda machine the BBC takes over the Kelvinhall in Glasgow with a new studio, ITV owned STV will also use the studio for productions.
The SNP’s Susan Aitken, leader of Glasgow City Council has lauded the move.
Given what Truss is doing to mortgage rates and what Nicola done to the private rented sector by freezing rents, one wonders one wonders if there will be a private rented sector at all.
Talk about rocks and a hard place
Ruby, I have no problem with what jockmcx said above.
I have a problem with those who repeatedly slated and continue to slate all routes to Indy that don’t involve the ballot box and Westminster’s permission. The revelations in this article and Craig Murray’s latest confirm that they were wrong.
I’m a traditionalist when it comes to independence. That means I believe the best way to achieve it is the tried and tested way that most other countries succeeded with.
There is no prospect of a section 30. There is no prospect of the SNP putting up any serious resistance to Westminster’s refusal to facilitate one. And now it’s clear that the “plebiscitary election” route — assuming it involves the SNP — is going to be another waste of years that leads to nothing.
That means the ballot box is dead. All the votes we supplied over the last 7 years have been wasted. We can keep hoping and voting but the SNP is entrenched — there’s no prospect of serious change.
It’s over as far as using your vote is concerned. The ballot box is a dead parrot.
Sure, there’s Alba. In 10 years, assuming everything goes really well, it might be able to play some part in a hung parliament.
Hatuey says:
29 September, 2022 at 11:15 pm
Craig Murray’s latest confirms the point; a referendum on independence isn’t possible through the ballot box as long as Westminster says it isn’t, a plebiscitary election can’t lead to independence without Westminster’s consent, and here’s the best bit; it isn’t Westminster that’s saying all that, it’s the so-called party of independence.
I think that’s true, but I get there from a different direction.
I firmly believe that the SALVO / Constitutional approach is going to be the game changer, and Westminster is going to have a devil of a job containing it, because a lot of what happens will happen outside Westminster’s jurisdiction.
The awkward problem for SALVO is not I think Westminster, but a democratically elected Administration, allegedly pro-Independence, setting it’s face against Scotland’s Constitution and essentially disputing Scottish Sovereignty.
The World, at least the UN, will see the appropriate “Liberation Movement” pushing for International Recognition of Scottish Sovereignty, but sovereignty which Scotland’s own “elected” Government won’t even recognise. What Nation on Earth will be persuaded to recognise Scotland if Scotland’s democratically elected, pro-Independence Government doesn’t?
What an embarrassing farce for the whole Independence Movement, and the blame for lies squarely at Sturgeons feet. How I detest that fraud of an individual.
What price for a wee bit of courage at the SNP Conference and Sturgeon the Betrayer ousted? Please God let it happen… but there are few left in the SNP known for their courage.
If Sturgeon walks away from this Conference with her rancid wee clique intact, it’s the end of the SNP, and instead of attacking Westminster, I fear SALVO will need time to dig around the Records Office and uncover some Ye Olde Worlde Impeachment protocols to hobble Holyrood before we take Scotland’s plight to the International community.
We’ll be delayed by that, and Sturgeon will press ahead with losing her doomed IndyRef, and screwing up our chance of Independence for the next decade.
” T’is over…now…if theres no action…if theres no rage..now.
T’is done….goodbye and good luck…..slaves! ”
Yip , the Fat , Bearded Lady is singing ( oooo * misogyny * * sexism * * body-shaming * and * transphobia * in one sentence , I’m outta here before the Thought Police arrive ) .
I agree with H’s prognosis re the ” Ballot Box ” – Polly’s deid
We could attempt to enlist some Pro-Indy monks n adopt a novel
Carmelite n Ballot Box strategy .
OPUS DEI OVER FEAR
Watcha reckon me ‘earties ?
Andy Ellis @ 8.55 says: ‘It wasn’t clear at the time the SNP first announced their change of policy what they actually planned’.
I see. So that’s the reason you and others fell for it: the naughty SNP didn’t tell you the whole truth from the start.
Given Sturgeon’s track record it was perfectly foreseeable that there was bound to be a sting in the tail and now you are being stung.
There is no point in accepting anything Sturgeon or the SNP says at face value.
I hope you have learned a lesson from this and don’t make the same mistake again.
I don’t profess to know the way forward with independence. All I know is that it doesn’t lie in the hands of the SNP, and until they are removed from office and replaced with genuine independence seekers no progress will be made.
I am sorry to hear about Liz G, our condolences to her family and friends,
The Crown sits in UK parliament,
Members of the Scottish government have to swear an oath of allegiance to the Crown if they wish to enter as a politician,
If it means nothing, Why the need for it? and is not controlling the decisions of Scottish politicians, then,
Scrap the oath of allegiance to the Crown in the Scottish devolved government. Simple.
Those that purpose only one method to gain independence for Scotland are certainly making a big effort to keep us on a narrow selected route to democracy.
All the work being done by the other grassroots groups towards independence for Scotland have out shone all the politicians put together in one year,
They have made the effort to look towards other alternatives, that have a preference to begging.
It astounds me to realise that the politicians of Scotland have made no effort to contest the view of Westminsters position of presumption that it is solely in a treaty of union by itself in all the years the devolved parliament in Scotland has existed.
The Scottish politicians we voted in over the last years into the devolved government have made no effort to protect the Scottish Constitution. And yet a fair percentage of them have law backgrounds.
Nor had they reminded or informed the Scots of the ” Claim of Right” in 1706/07 treaty of the union since the devolved parliament first opened.
until the last few years, when they realised the people of Scotland had got wind of it,
The occurring theme of keeping Scots ignorant of their rights, is becoming history.
That’s right, James Che, they’ve insisted that we stick to that road and attacked anyone who alluded to alternative routes. Everything in this article and in Craig Murray’s latest tells you they were naive and wrong.
@Hautey
“Everything in this article and in Craig Murray’s latest tells you they were naive and wrong”.
Switch “niave and wrong” for “cunning and deceitful” and you’ve got the measure of Sturgeon and her lieutenants, including those in the legal profession.
Hatuey.
Thing is the only route they wish us to take is within the rule system that was made to prevent Scottish incependence.
The begging bowl method, where the system is rigged, they even change the goal posts on percentages needed when it suits them,
Own the voting franchise.
And then decide if they will take part or recognise the results of democracy.
A question for those genned up on this topic a little bit more than I.
Is the treaty of union Ratified in domestic law?
@John Main 7.22 am
Anybody claiming there can’t be any changes to the political landscape in Scotland over these time periods is effectively saying there is something politically wrong with us.
I’m afraid you might be right, there IS something politically wrong with us to tolerate the current situation and not bring about change. In the end the buck has to stop with the people as a whole. We get the representatives we deserve. If we don’t like what they do, we change them using accepted constitutional means. In extremis, if they are preventing change, acting illegally or using violence, we depose them. That’s how it works.
Are we really believing that in the next three and a half years of perma-crisis, the political logjam at HR will remain ummoved? The same, tired and discredited faces will shout meaningless insults at each other, day after day? The same half-hearted apologies for ineptitude, laziness and low-level corruption will be tholed by us Scots?
Naw. Seems most unlikely to me.
I’ve heard these arguments before that essentially “something has to give” and that due to the upcoming economic crisis the people will rise up and ensure a sea change in our politics. Really? They might I suppose, but given our history I don’t like the odds. There is nothing in our past that suggests the Scottish or British people will somehow contrive to bring about radical change to our governments and their policies this time as opposed to during past crises.
We don’t have the history of constitutional change, coalition governments and the rapid formation of new political parties you see elsewhere. It’s not impossible of course, but I remain unconvinced. We’re still saddled with a creaking crypto-medieval system of government. No electoral reform, no abolition or wholesale reform of the House of Lords, no radical policies to tackle social inequality, environmental concerns, education, the health service, pensions and social care.
The problem for Scots is that their devolutionary parliament and representatives at Westminster don’t have the power to force Westminster to do anything. They don’t hold the balance of power like the IPP did a century ago. They can’t bring the system to its knees, because they are easily outvoted.
Maybe when the Scots who still support the SNP and believe their promises realise they’ve been had, but I don’t see that happening until AFTER the next elections. Given what we’ve seen of the anti-democratic nature of the SNP’s internal governance, do you honestly see the rank and file membership overthrowing Sturgeon’s leadership before then? It could happen if there’s an upsurge of discontent or civil unrest due to economic shock to come, but equally it might not. If we were going to have La Diada style demonstrations and uprisings of the people invading Bute House and the Viceroy’s new offices in the High Street in righteous indignation, we’d already be independent!
@Hatuey 11.15 pm
…and here’s the best bit; it isn’t Westminster that’s saying all that, it’s the so-called party of independence.
Which is why I said above, the only way to ensure a “real” plebiscitary election is for the SNP to change tack, and treat a victory in plebiscitary elections as de facto independence, not just another mandate.
The only way that will happen is for the SNP membership to force the change, or for Scots voters to vote for parties promising it. The former could produce results in the short to medium term, the latter only in the medium to long term. Tell me which part you disagree with or think is wrong?
The most “cunning” and far-fetched moon-howling plan for independence that currently exists is officially the idea that it’s possible by conventional means through the ballot box.
You keep asserting this, but it becomes no more convincing for the constant repetition. The ballot box is the only plausible way. All the cunning plans positing routes which bypass the use of a majority in a referendum or plebiscitary election are dead ends.
There are no legal or constitutional short cuts which stack up. Putting your faith in them kicks independence in to the long grass and makes it a racing certainty that it won’t happen for a real generation.
Feel free to enlighten me, but I bet you can’t do so without stringing together a bunch of things that don’t seem possible or very likely right now. In other words, I bet you can’t do it without entering into the realms of pure fantasy.
I’ve sketched out the possibilities and potential timescales as requested, now you airily dismiss them as impossible or fantastical, while asserting (again) that the deck is stacked against us, and that as far ahead in to the future as you can see you don’t see how it will change. Seems like the dialogue of despair to me.
You have no realistic alternative, but insist the game’s a bogey. A lot of us will be dead before independence happens relying on those advocating “cunning plans for indy”.
Just a thought, but who are the alternative voices in the SNP?
You know..Starmer has Corbyn and his fans
Even Truss has Ken Clark and other sceptics within the Tory party.
Who are the “other perspectives” in the SNP?
I dont think Joanne Cherry is interested since being sidelined and I dont see anyone making any ripple let alone waves so how will it ever change?
Is Glorious First leader Nicola ever to be challenged let alone replaced?
I heard there is a distinction between ratified domestic law and international law when it involves the treaty of union from its conception.
The mock indyref is a ruse, to adhere as many indy supporters to Sturgeon as possible for when the UKSC denies the right for Sturgeon to hold it, and it must, the stability of the union is imperative at all times, then Sturgeon can say I tried but the UKSC said no. Another reason the UKSC must say no, is that Sturgeon would be found out, assuming yes romped home and nothing came of it.
Now with the mock indyref out of the way let’s look at the plebiscitary GE, I’d fully expect the SNP under Sturgeon to run with the GE billing it as a plebiscite, this cunning plan would see almost all indy supporters back it in the hope of winning as many indy minded MPs seats as possible, the emphasis being on the SNP obtaining the majority mid 50’s or so.
Of course, there will be some sort of challenge to it being a plebiscitary GE in which Sturgeon will back down after a bit of toing and froing with regards to legalities, but in the end the union will remain intact, and Sturgeon will have her tranche of MPs and any notion of independence will disappear like snow aff a dyke in Spring, only to reemerge in 2026.
We are weaving our way through our laws,
through the Sovereignty of Scots, through the Scottish Constitution,
Through democracy issues and self determination,
Through international laws and domestic laws.
Through the Claim of right and colonisation.
Through the treaty of the union ownership.
All this is being investigated, not by the devolved government and all who sail in her, But by the Scottish people. Us, and it will take years,
It is good that we will be able to prove our point from Scotland in a few years time, on many of these issues
Do we have years given the state of Scotland and Britain now?
Given the advertising taking place in MSM daily of Scotland as a new place of residence for those living outside of Scotland getting more buck for your money if you buy in Scotland,
I wonder how quick these things would be challenged and sorted by the UN and other Countries if the SCOTS of Scotland decided to leave the Union,
I would love to See how Westminster protested to the UN that it considered Scotland was no longer a a recognised participant in the treaty of the union by Westminster.
I would love to see Westminster explain or could explain away the colonisation of the treaty of the union by Westminster itself.
I would love to see Westminster try to explain to the UN how the old English 1706 parliament of Westminster entered directly into the British parliament with out ending the english parliament session until 1708.
Hatuey says:
30 September, 2022 at 11:02 am
I have a problem with those who repeatedly slated and continue to slate all routes to Indy that don’t involve the ballot box and Westminster’s permission. The revelations in this article and Craig Murray’s latest confirm that they were wrong.
Who are these people? The Apartheid Boys?
Hatuey says:
There is no prospect of a section 30. There is no prospect of the SNP putting up any serious resistance to Westminster’s refusal to facilitate one
The way I see it zero effort has been put into obtaining a section 30.
Now that we have discovered the SNP are doing nothing I feel we should be highlighting that fact by protesting outside Westminster.
Maybe with placards appealing to the Tories to help us since the ‘Cosy Slippers’ have broken their promises and are doing nothing for Scotland. 😉
I don’t have a problem with discussions about alternative routes but we always come back to the same problem …… the SNP.
I would love to see Westminster would explain to the UN how it was refusing democracy, the Right to Self Determination to Scots in the treaty of the union.
I would love to witness Westminster squirm under UN questioning on wether the treaty of the union took place under Duress and threat to the Scots, by a army being sent to the Scottish borders in 1707 to quell the protests.
I would Love to hear the UN question Westminster, on how many articles of the treaty of the union t have Westminster breached since 1706/07.
@Merganser 11.44 am
I see. So that’s the reason you and others fell for it: the naughty SNP didn’t tell you the whole truth from the start.
Given Sturgeon’s track record it was perfectly foreseeable that there was bound to be a sting in the tail and now you are being stung.
We didn’t fall for anything. We took it at face value on the information available at the time, which was that Sturgeon had undergone a Damascene conversion to doing what many – including Rev Stu – have been advocating for years, firstly to put the issue of the legality of a non-S30 sanctioned referendum beyond legal doubt via the SC, and if that decided Holyrood lacked competence to pursue the only other available route: plebiscitary elections.
The sting came recently, as it was not obvious when first announced that Sturgeon’s plebiscitary election was simply a precursor for another step. Plebiscitary elections don’t require a second step, but we have to disabuse the SNP of that belief
There is no point in accepting anything Sturgeon or the SNP says at face value.
I hope you have learned a lesson from this and don’t make the same mistake again.
Tell it to all those still supporting and voting for them.
I don’t profess to know the way forward with independence. All I know is that it doesn’t lie in the hands of the SNP, and until they are removed from office and replaced with genuine independence seekers no progress will be made.
Great, you have opinions and no solution. Virtually all of us agree the SNP won’t deliver, but the hard fact is it remains the party supported by the bulk of the movement. Unless its current leadership is removed and it changes tack, I agree the only realistic alternative is to remove them, but how long do you think that is going to take? A year..? 5…10?
I’d prefer not to wait indefinitely. There are likely to be a few years before the next elections, so there’s some time to prepare. There’s no guarantee the SNP can be changed or rendered fit for purpose though, and “tqking it down” isn’t going to be achieved overnight. If you have a better plan though, let’s hear it.
I would love to see how Westminster could explain away the inconsistency between the treaty of the union Calendar dates for Scotland and Englands parliaments from 1706 –1707 signing,
until the amendments of the English calendar in in 1752,
The English parliament had officially ratified the Scottish parliaments side of the treaty of union consecutively for roughly 46 years prior to it being officially submitted to Westminster.
Upon changing the Calendar in England in 1752, England lost 11 days in the treaty of the Union.
desimond @ 2:10 pm
“Just a thought, but who are the alternative voices in the SNP”
There aren’t any. Those who want to see an Independent Scotland in their lifetime quit, leaving the troughers and biology deniers to f**k it up all by themselves and kill off any chance of Indy ever happening.
But so long as Westminster keeps on writing those cheques, the SNP will be happy as pigs in sh1t.
Welcome to Sturgeon’s perma-devolved Scotland folks. A banana republic, just without any bananas.
@robertknight (3.22) –
At least banana republics are republics.
(And they own their bananas!)
😉
So England was officially missing in the treaty of the union for 11 days of the British parliament.
Was it supposed to renew its side to the treaty of the union being as those 11 days were null and void?
How does Westminster parliament hold on to the idea that the 1707 treaty of union that created the British parliament has been continuous with 11 missing days in England.
It dates and amount of days differ from Scotlands dates and days in the treaty of the union and as the British parliament,
As Scotland due to its calendar, does not have 11 missing days.
Queen died 3.10pm.Public announcement 6.35pm. Cause of death, old age. Message: none of your business peasants !!!
England,
Absent from the treaty of the union and the British parliament for 11 full days and nights.
Ian Brotherhood.
🙂
A professor and Plaid Cymru, shootdown the Westminster figures that an indy Wales would start off with a £13.5 billion deficit, sound familiar.
At least the Welsh indy party has shot it down, I recall the SNP under Sturgeon was at one time going to publish a counter to the GERS figures to show that they wouldn’t apply to an indy Scotland, but nothing came of it, no surprise there then.
https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thenational.scot%2Fnews%2F22938019.deficit-independent-wales-fraction-uk-estimates-dublin-city-university-study-finds%2F
RoS,
It wouldn’t surprise me in the least if Wales got independence before Scotland.
Good luck to them, either way.
Andy Ellis @ 3.04 says: ‘Great. You have opinions but no solution…I’d prefer not to wait indefinitely…If you have a better plan let’s hear it.’
If I had a sure-fire, quick way of achieving independence I would be happy to state it. For me to say that Sturgeon et al should resign, and that Alba should unite with what’s left of the SNP, is not a plan; it’s barely wishful thinking. And Alex has been so damaged by the plotters that the person with the most ability has been effectively side-lined.
Whilst I haven’t given up hope of seeing Scotland become independent in my lifetime, I have to concede that this is a strong possibility at my age.
I would at least derive a crumb of comfort to see Sturgeon and her charlatans exposed for what they are and what they have done. This for me is the most important first step that has to be taken on the road forward. I’m sorry I can’t offer you a quick fix.
Link for full version of Scottish Prism episode recorded at the Eagle Inn, Coatbridge, on Sept 18th.
Roddy MacLeod (aka Barrhead Boy) is joined by Eva Comrie, Sara Salyers, Yvonne Ridley, Phil Boswell and Tommy Sheridan.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAwYphcqZM0
I’ve got a new audiobook.
It’s called ‘The Diary of a Secret Tory MP’
Anyone read this?
I’m keeping it for the Coronation when I’m planning on doing more spring cleaning.
I’m expecting there to be more sex, more violence, more motor cycle gangs & more cleaning tips (ie red wine stains removal) than in ‘Mrs Harris goes to Paris’
Ah well, John Main will be proud of my exploits as I get my “Brexit” A Game on and make innovative bramble jam from more foraging exploits.
M. Boyle seems to have finally evaporated so I hopefully won’t be accused of being a Guardianista like I was after the locally sourced and seasonal crayfish gumbo creation…
TBH it was one of aspect / dare I say benefit of “Brexit” that I hoped would get more promoting in carbon footprint reducing terms, in that we should be eating more locally sourced and seasonal fayre.
Initial taste tests of da jam are extremely positive, and this also has the bonus that these berries just grow without all the grief of pests control like sawfly devouring my blackcurrant bushes.
What about a book called
‘The Diary of a Secret SNP MP’
(Almost!) True Stories from the Heart of Holyrood & Westminster.
That could be fun!
In description of ‘The Diary of a Secret Tory MP’ it states
The Diary of a Secret Tory MP is an outrageous spoof of the classic political journal that pulls back the Lulu Lytle curtains to expose extraordinary goings-on at Westminster across a tumultuous twelve months.
I had to google ‘Lulu Lytle curtains’ now I’m wondering what type of curtains could be used in
‘The Diary of a Secret SNP MP’
Any suggestions?
https://tinyurl.com/3sv43ky2
I’ve just re-watched ‘Rory Bremner Goes to Holyrood’ and it turns out writing ‘The Diary of a Secret SNP MP’ would be very difficult ‘cos there are no SNP scandals & and on top of that nobody knows who any of the SNP politicians are.
Dan
Naw, you’ve got me wrong.
Are you sure you’re not my sister posting under a pseudonym?
She is a wee bit of a Brexit sceptic, so for her birthday, I got her a selection of continental cheeses, all bought from my local shop. And all on the list of stuff we were telt would be unavailable, or eye wateringly expensive after Brexit.
Washed down with a bottle of Prosecco, something else that Project Fear telt us would be impossible to get. Now it seems to be cheaper than ever.
Not being critical, Dan, but this time last week I would have been applauding your efforts re food miles.
This time this week, somebody has deliberately released 778 million standard cubic meters of methane into the atmos, meaning that if all of us live to be a thousand, our recycling efforts and foodmile concerns will still count for naught in comparison.
So by all means continue with the foraging if it saves you money. But for anybody else, hoping to save the planet, get a life. You’re wasting your time.
What do you make of Angus MacNeill and Joanna Cherry ?
Still with new snp, still tweeting as if an snp Indy is real.
Oooh-er, how ‘inconvenient’ is this?
‘At the UN Security Council a resolution to condemn Russia over its referendums in Donetsk & Lugansk to come under Moscow’s umbrella FAILS after China, Brazil, India, Gabon refuse to vote with NATO proxy countries.’
https://twitter.com/afshinrattansi/status/1575950849519808512
Rrrruuuubbbbyyyyyyy!
Ruby!
They’re posting about UK raine again.
FFS. No wonder you never made Milk Monitor.
Asleep on the job. Unless …
It can’t be that your selective outrage is only aimed at posters you don’t like. Naw.
@John Main
forever blowing bubbles?
If its nordstream you thinking of there should be isolation valves at least every 16km so if the pipes did have methane in them, and each pipe blew either side of a valve, the most that should have been lost is in the order 100,000 m3 (4 x 16000m x 1.5m2) which, if compressed to 70 bar/1000psi, would be in order of about 5 million scm (I think)
Wings, exactly.
That’s why some of us have been banging our head at the buzz words often touted to thwart even an attempt at independence – the whataboutery about international recognition & what will the international community think.. it’s beyond tiresome became no one can know unless we have the balls to try it cause sure as shit Sturgeon doesn’t. & The international community won’t say shit until actually presented with a decision to make.
I wonder, if Labour win next GE, if they’d have an attempt at a people’s vote, & we find ourselves back in the EU under the UK member state. Jeez, that’d surely be another missed sitter of getting us out the UK while its out of the EU & is fast losing friends.
Ian Brotherhood says:
30 September, 2022 at 10:25 pm
Oooh-er, how ‘inconvenient’ is this?
‘At the UN Security Council a resolution to condemn Russia over its referendums in Donetsk & Lugansk to come under Moscow’s umbrella FAILS after China, Brazil, India, Gabon refuse to vote with NATO proxy countries.’
https://twitter.com/afshinrattansi/status/1575950849519808512
That is interesting Ian. I wonder if there will ever be a UN security Council resolution condemning the UK for refusing to allow the people of Scotland a referendum.
” I wonder, if Labour win next GE, if they’d have an attempt at a people’s vote, & we find ourselves back in the EU under the UK member state ”
Zero chance of that , Geri .
Starmer – political Ed Gein that he is , has eviscerated Tory ideology , not in order to kill it , but to wear it : such is the fit , it could almost have been made-to-measure . He’s going to ” Make Brexit work ” . He’s yet to elaborate on how
In fairness , England voted for it , so , let them have it , all of it . The willie of the people must be respected ; even if it is used to sodomise their rights , interests , social/economic wellbeing .
Sturgeon – Evangelical Gender fanatic- removed Scotland’s 62% Remain prophylactic and chose to adopt the missionary position , to lie back and think of England .
The Supreme Power
HER reward will be entry to the Land of Silk & Money .
Scotland – What/where’s that ?
It’s a county just north of Berwick-upon-Tweed.
For information.
https://ireland-calling.com/easter-rising-public-reaction/
Sturgeon = Redmond?
Enough of the hand wringing.
Very important events in the coming days,,, which in my opinion will give us a much clearer view of where we are at this point on our journey towards Scottish Independence:-
SNP Conference 8th-10th October Aberdeen.
Supreme Court ruling 11th-12th October London.
ALBA Conference 15th-16th October Stirling.
These three events will shape our immediate future.
Hang on, because we are about to hit the summit of the Indy rollercoaster ride.
You’d think a scientist would know that methane in the atmosphere only lasts about 10 years… actually probably less.
We know who did it because Biden and Nuland told us in advance they were going to do it.
The timing is interesting. With public opinion in Germany turning against the war and people starting to question the necessity of power cuts during the winter, we were hearing more and more calls for nordstream gas to be brought back online.
In the background US energy companies are making a fortune, with exports to Europe up dramatically. Of course, US arms manufacturers are making a killing too.
“Taking out” nordstream will come back to haunt the US. It was an act of stupidity that the majority of Germans will see through. It’ll lead to more people demanding an end to the war and may even lead to NATO being dismantled.
I am sorry to hear about the death of Liz G. She joins the thousands of Independence supporters who worked for Independence but have been cheated out it by NS and her clique actively working against it.
I was able to look an NS supporter in the eye yesterday and explain why there will be no referendum in October ’23. I think I shook her belief but will wait and see.
It has taken the Welsh producing their own figures to prove how much England is ripping out of them. We have been begging NS to produce similar figures for Scotland for years but have met a blank wall. Now she is saying that Scotland will produce figures for Scotland. She has to be dragged kicking and screaming to do anything to promote the case for Independence.
Now Blackford is crowing about the SNP being the official Opposition after the next GE. Great troughers all!
SNP MPs and MSPs please grow a backbone and challenge her.
Ian Brotherhood @10.25pm.
It’s not the first time the UNSG has overstepped his remit on this matter.
” UN Secretary General Antonio Guterres had no authority to make statements on the part of the entire organization about the recent referendums in the people’s republics of Donetsk and Lugansk (DPR and LPR) and the regions of Kherson and Zaporozhye, Russia’s mission to UN said on Friday.
The Russian Permanent Mission to the United Nations said in a statement that “administrative functions do not give the Secretary-General the right to make political statements on behalf of the UN as a whole,” let alone to “single-handedly deliver interpretation of the norms of the Charter and the documents of the General Assembly.””
The Daily Hail continues to find new levels of pathetic.
Sturgeon out on the street with an aid covering her with an umbrella to stop her getting soaked.
SNP council leader heading to Egypt for a UN conference on climate change where she will receive £25 per day expenses.
Should she have demanded the UN hold it in Govan or refuse to attend this urgent and important meeting.
The Indy bus is full but Nicola the driver, won’t start the engine.
So the passengers just get their phones and tablets out.
Ho hum.
Says more about the voters, who appear to have better things to do
than get Independence.
As for Sturgeon, she’s been bought and sold for a long time now.
Someone or something, outwith Scotland, is going to have to get Independence for us.
Scotland has clearly demonstrated beyond any doubt
that independence is beyond our collective capabilities.
Traitors meanwhile, abound, in and around the Scottish Parliament.
Ruby says:
1 October, 2022 at 7:13 am
That is interesting Ian. I wonder if there will ever be a UN security Council resolution condemning the UK for refusing to allow the people of Scotland a referendum.
With warmongering Nicola “No Fly Zone” Sturgeon, I somehow doubt Scotland did itself any favours.
Although the number of Nations who recognise and welcome the end of the UK, and by implication the British Empire as a thing, might be harder to call…
I wonder, did Gabon stand in for South Africa? (BRICS).
Effijy.
Snp going to Egypt.?
They cant find their way to the nearest Scottish independence marches or meetings.
When you think about those blew up nord stream, and preventing people from having heating and energy this winter for political gain,
I think They should be charged with mass crimes against humanity.
” We know who did it because Biden and Nuland told us in advance they were going to do it. ”
What ! Are you suggesting R DIDN’T covertly enter NATO-patrolled waters , surreptitiously lay explosive devices on IT’S OWN ( very expensively constructed ) pipeline , then detonated them whilst gnawing the bones of women ,children and small furry animals ; when it could have simply flicked a switch to achieve the same end ?
You must be one of those crazy Conspiracy Theorists .
If Biden and Nuland’s own words weren’t sufficient to convince the terminally gullible , how about Former Polish Foreign Minister – the aptly named Sikorski’s ( ” The Boeing–Sikorsky RAH-66 Comanche is an American stealth armed reconnaissance and attack helicopter ” ) ” Thank you , USA ” message accompanying an image of the roiling sea above the sabotage points ?
Maybe he was thanking them for Mom’s Apple n Democracy Pie *
* may contain traces of nuts
Not to put TOO much emphasis on it ….if you believe this shit
You’re a fuckn moron and shouldn’t be allowed out without the presence of an adult ( if there are such people these days )
Kenny MacAskill says something very disturbing about the SNP MPs response when he says to them in a cheery way – “it’s great there will be a referendum in 2023”. They look down, away, avoiding his gaze.
Doesn’t sound encouraging, does it? [Kenny gives this anecdote in his speech at the Tranent Wee Alba book event – on Voices for Independence yesterday.]
It is clear that Holyrood and the MPs are NOT protecting us from England and the English. Under the Claim of Right, that they all and Westminster supposedly agree applies in Scotland, they are required to do so OR lose their jobs.
I suggest that all of us email our MSPs and MPs and simply ask them if they agree that the Claim of Right exists. Don’t say any more than that.
When [if] they reply to say of course they agree, then write back to point out that they are required to protect us from all those Westminster policies that they spend their time complaining about. And the Claim of Right empowers them to act NOW, not wait for Westminster’s permission via a court or an election or a referendum.
Tell them that any further delay is unacceptable.
I suggest we all do this because it is clear that our MSPs and MPs don’t understand what the real meaning of the Claim of Right is. They behave as if the people’s sovereignty is handed over to them in parliament. IT ISN’T.
If we had done that it would mean parliamentary sovereignty, just like England’s Bill of Rights said in 1689. Our Claim of Right of 1689 says PEOPLE, not Parliament. It is simple – Scotland is different and our parliamentarians need to know that.
Come on everyone – start to prod our parliamentarians and make them a bit less comfortable. They won’t be worrying about fuel and food bills, will they? They have a damn nerve watching what is being done to us and letting it happen when there is absolutely no reason to do so.
Hatuey says:
“We know who did it because Biden and Nuland told us in advance they were going to do it.”
I agree with your comment, Hatuey, which is very well expressed, although I don’t think the environmental impact can be downplayed. It is an environmental disaster of unprecedented proportions and highlights how little they actually care about the environment.
I do not understand how such a heinous act of international terrorism can be carried out in European waters with impunity. Can Europe not see that it has been US policy all along to incite the conflict in Eastern Europe, weaken and cripple Europe’s reliance on Russian oil and gas, and thereby exponentially increase American hegemony? Why does Europe (the EU and UK) choose to do the US’s bidding by siding with neo-Nazis rather than support the well-being of their own people and their own continent? What the US did to the Middle East they are now doing to Europe.
Since the Second World War the US (in league with the UK) has been the world’s leading state sponsor of terrorism with NATO acting as a paramilitary and terrorist organisation. It is time they were declared as such and NATO disbanded for good before we are led to global destruction.
Hatuey,
Destroying energy supplies as winter approaches is obviously crimes against humanity,
But they could also be charged with a act/s of terrorism.
I remember Von der Lyion also mentioning there was things the could do to bring governments and countries into line,
They seem not to have thought out how unbelievable the narrative they spun afterwards would to the rest of the world.
Any of you go to the Edinburgh march?
S N P… Scottish Nowsnoratym Party
@ IB: no I didn’t go to the march. If I lived within say 50 miles I would have done. I hope to hear that there was a substantial turnout – AUOB are saying 7000.
I just don’t get it.
There must be half a dozen posts about the war on this thread now, but not a peep out of self-appointed subject monitor, Ruby.
Looks like it’s not “Wings Over Uk raine” that Ruby objects to after all.
It’s alternative opinions that blow her fuses.
Who’d a thunk it, eh?
@Saffron Robe
You were close to looking as if you were making a valid point, but then you dropped in “neo-Nazis”.
You just can’t help yourself, can you?
Anyways, let me get into the spirit of your post and encourage you to crack on with disbanding NATO.
Be sure to submit regular progress reports on here, thanks.
@Hatuey 10:20
So when Biden and Nuland say something you want to believe, you believe it?
But when they say something you don’t want to believe, they’re lying through their teeth?
Just checking I have the necessary framework to interpret your posts. This must be a first for you, citing people like them as reliable and believable sources, so it is necessary to understand what has made you do a reverse ferret.
Stuart Mctavish
Good point, and of course, standard practice on any pipeline for leak isolation.
Reports I have seen online quote the entire volume of the pipeline. Unless the isolation valves are being deliberately held open, there is no way the entire pipeline should vent.
If the isolation valves are open, it introduces an intriguing idea for how the pipeline(s) were blown up. My usual 30 seconds of internet research turned up a photo of the Nordstream pig, so the lines were designed for pigging. It would therefore be feasible to put a crawler into the line (from either end) with an explosive charge attached.
No ships, submarines, or divers necessary.
@RoS 10.29 am
Maybe the UN Secretary General just knows an Orc when he sees one? Unlike you he seems to have a functioning moral compass.
Anyway, he was quite right, and within his rights, to call out the Orcs latest cunning plan:
The Charter also empowers the Secretary-General to bring to the attention of the Security Council any matter which in their opinion may threaten the maintenance of international peace and security. These guidelines both define the powers of the office and grant it considerable scope for action. The Secretary-General would fail if they did not take careful account of the concerns of Member States, but they must also uphold the values and moral authority of the United Nations, and speak and act for peace, even at the risk, from time to time, of challenging or disagreeing with those same Member States.
https://www.un.org/sg/en/content/the-role-of-the-secretary-general
Andy Ellis
I guess some of the usual suspects on here are wetting themselves with excitement when they conclude that there is indeed a “cunning plan for Indy” after all.
Simply go house-to-house, ordering residents to vote at gunpoint.
It cannot be denied that at a certain superficial level it works, delivering up to 99.2% in favour of the required result.
You have to wonder at the guts of that 0.8% though. I hope they are OK.
And the even better news: if we follow this process here in Scotland, Chad will have our back.
Now where’s my atlas.
The Scotch lawyer was so engrossed in detail he failed to see the truck that flattened him when stepping off the pavement.
Scottish nationalism is just like that.
Adieu & the best of luck….you’re going to need it folks, in spades.
Off to Qatar….At least the weather’s warm at this time of year….in sha allah!
Mr Campbell should pull the plug on Wings. It has lost its «raison d’être».
Saffron, I agree, the immediate environmental consequences of the US blowing up the pipeline are undoubtedly very serious. It was an idiotic decision that will come back to haunt them.
Germans generally, more than any other population in the world, are are very environmentally aware and when they weigh up the damage this will cause to marine life, along with the consequences in terms of energy costs, they aren’t going to be happy.
The suggestion that anyone else might be responsible for this doesn’t deserve a serious response.
@John Main 6.55 pm
Well indeed. Of course, sauce for the goose and all that. Perhaps Country 404 could just carry on when they clear the Orcs out of the four stolen oblasts and declare the neighbouring oblasts now belong to them?
Any of the constituent republics of the Russian Federation must be wondering about whether it’s worth asking their neighbouring states for help to leave. I’m sure China, Kazhakstan and a few others might be interested…? 🙂
” Adieu & the best of luck….you’re going to need it folks, in spades.
Off to Qatar….At least the weather’s warm at this time of year….in sha allah! ”
Same to you Otto .
Take care of yrsel n hope you will maintain yr interest ( and commentary ) in our ongoing Scottish Purgatory
Haste ye back 🙂
Ian Brotherhood 325pm,
Yes. Heard Chris Law of the SNP speak, and it was as wishy washy as expected. Let me paraphrase one part;
‘If the Supreme court rules in our favour then we will have our vote in October next year. (Loud appaluse and cheers)
But, if it rules against us, then…(and I held my breath waiting to hear what would happen).. we will have to determine just how we can legally progress a referendum. (this was greeted by a much more muted response).
So, yet again, we have somebody from the SNP literally publicly telling London that if their pretendy ‘supreme’ court says NO, then NOTHING will happen. WTF?
Can somebody, somewhere, please, please, please send a copy of the ladybird book of negotiation and Political strategy to the SNP and Chris Law.
What Chris Law should actually have said, was this, ‘if the English pretendy ‘supreme’ court says no, we will hold our referendum regardless, and if that fails we will make the next parliamentary election a vote on independence, and the one after that, and after that for AS LONG AS IT TAKES, as we have four full clear democratic mandates to do so, and independence is OUR RIGHT, under the UN. Scotland will not have its democratic rights denied any longer by English Tories and Labour charlatans. We will use ANY means to secure freedom from English rule, and an end to this one-sided, unwanted, undemocratic, so-called ‘union.
If you tell Westminster, in advance, that you will do nothing when they trash your country and democracy, they will treat you with the utter, utter contempt you rightly deserve. Sadly, I do not doubt that is EXACTLY what Sturgeon will do at the forthcoming SNP conference. No wonder London ignores her. I would too.
In short, the message to London is clear from the SNP, ‘deny us our democratic rights and well, we’ll go away, and think about things, and stuff… and it’s not fair’
Utterly, utterly pathetic. No fight, No political acumen, none.
@Robert Louis –
Thanks for that report.
Finding it hard to understand why AUOB invited Chris Law to speak at all let alone lead the march. Doesn’t do their cred any good at all.
@Robert Louis
What Chris Law should actually have said, was this, ‘if the English pretendy ‘supreme’ court says no, we will hold our referendum regardless, and if that fails we will make the next parliamentary election a vote on independence,
What’s the point of a non-section 30 referendum though? it will not be accepted by unionists, or – at leat arguably – by the international community. If the SC finds against the SG, the movement should come together to agree that every subsequent GE is a de facto referendum. 50% + 1 = de facto independence. Simples. Why complicate matters by hoding another referendum of doubtful utility?
For those who prefer to make their own minds up about important stuff, here’s a link to P***n’s speech yesterday, unedited and subtitled.
odysee.com/@BacktoBasics:e/Vladimir_Putin_Speech_On_September_30_2022_Eng_Subtitles:1
And the results are in!
Our resident over-achiever has spoken: it wis the US wot done it.
To think of all these agencies, NGOs, intrepid journalists, defence departments, etc etc, scouring their seismic records, their encrypted intercepts, their satellite tracking records, their capability and effectiveness assessments, their thermal images, their sources and contacts and spies, and all the time, Hatuey, HE KNOWS.
Maybes somebody needs to tip off the UN and save a lot of wasted time and effort: HATUEY KNOWS.
Truly, we are not worthy to share his gifts.
@Robert Louis
Any info on previous ScotGov attitude to U.K. SC?
If there is a long history of ScotGov/SNP refusing to accept jurisdiction of SC, then it will be consistent of them to reject the ruling under discussion.
Alternatively, if they have been happy to go along with the SC rulings in the past, maybes because it suited them to do so, then impartial and rational onlookers will say, tough tittie.
This is a genuine question BTW. I am unaware that ScotGov has consistently rejected the authority of the SC in the past, but maybes it has and I am just unaware of that fact.
Like him or not, if we had a leader who cared half as much about Scotland as P***n does about his country, we wouldn’t be in the shite we are right now.
For those who prefer to make their own minds up about important stuff, here’s a link to P***n’s speech yesterday, unedited and subtitled.
odysee.com/@BacktoBasics:e/Vladimir_P***n_Speech_On_September_30_2022_Eng_Subtitles:1
(replace the asterisks, obvs)
” But, if it rules against us, then…(and I held my breath waiting to hear what would happen).. we will have to determine just how we can legally progress a referendum. (this was greeted by a much more muted response)” .
Did our contemporary Wallace – C.Law , head back to his castle after that incendiary speech , or South to take the battle to the enemy ?
” But , if it rules against us , by the blood of our ancestors , our immortal dead , I hereby – solemnly – swear we’ll …we’ll … ask again later , but in a slightly louder voice ”
D’ye think the deciding of which SNP * face * cops the onerous task of appearing at these events in order to say nothing of any value is done by drawing straws ? Or maybe a Deer Hunter style deal with the sweating candidates around a table in WM , Blackford shouting ” Mau ! ” in their faces, while Wishart and Black cackle insanely in the background , laying bets on whose gonna take the High Road .
” It’s grim up North ” , int’it ?
@ Robert Louis and IB: “Chris Law – no fight, no political acumen..”
That is why I suggested we ask our MPs etc if they accept the Claim of Right and then educate them as to what it actually means i.e. that they DO have the power to ask us a question, and they DON’T need Westminster’s permission. After all, Westminster accepts the Claim of Right.
Surely a lot of the reason we’re in the shite we are right now is the result of Vlad caring too much about other people’s countries?
I see Vlad’s resident Lord Haw Haw is pitching his barking mad speech as something worth listening to. Good grief….just when you think these folk can’t sink any lower, they just limbo right under that bar, huh?
Vlad is currently taking on the whole of NATO and basically running rings around them. If NATO even gets close to bugging him, he’ll utter a few carefully chosen words and the whole west will spiral into a frenzied panic about Armageddon.
His currency is the world’s top performer this year, and strengthening.
His people aren’t facing a cost of living crisis or unaffordable heating costs this winter. They’ll be fine.
His relations with China and other economic giants essentially guarantee a strong economy and markets for exports as far into the future as anyone can see.
And most importantly, he isn’t a senile old guy who pishes the couches of the presidential offices.
I think you’re right, Ian, Vlad has a lot going for him.
As Frantz Fanon said, the idea of compromise and co-operation is very important in the phenomenon of decolonization. For what we see is an attempt by the nationalist bourgeois party to settle the colonial problem around a green baize table. “When the nationalist political leaders say something, they make quite clear that they do not really think it (and) their objective is not the radical overthrowing of the system”, but rather, coming to an amicable agreement with it.
The recent appointment of Jackie Bird as President of the NTS confirms what Alf Baird has been saying for ages, that Scotland is a colony.
All of our institutions are stuffed full of Britnat unionists and it is long past time that an SNP Government should only appoint independence minded Scots to national posts. All our universities senior positions are totally dominated by these FORIEGNERS.
All of these positions are advertised in the Times London Supplement to make sure the Britnats get first crack.
I was at Edinburgh today.
The only faces I recognised at Holyrood and before were Chris Law, Dave McGuinness and Eva Comrie and, as I left at the 2pm rain, Craig Murray.
Was a good turnout though. As Chris Law said, It’s up to us to have blethers with the, politically, uninterested, to get us over the line to the majority of Scots wanting independence.
Very true, Alf. There are many examples of exactly that, even India is a good one; up until 1943, Indian nationalist leaders and British negotiators didn’t contemplate going beyond a very limited devolved structure, the prospect of which they were all happy enough with. Everything changed when the masses woke up and demanded independence under the “Quit India” banner.
Of course, what happens in these situations is that the political classes change their tune and push to the front, pretending they were with the people all along.
You can bet that will happen in Scotland when the people rise up, with scathing naysayers such as those that comment here barging to the front, ambitious to replace snouts currently at the trough with their own.
@ BDTT 12.07AM and as usual Brian the scum members of the Scottish Nonce Party issue their ORDERS (get out and convince no voters and undecided voters to change their minds) OH wait the party of independence haven’t produced ANY educational information or documentation that would enable the worker ants to EXPOSE to those undecideds and no voters the corruption and theft of Scotland’s resources that is continuing to hold Scotland in poverty despite being in power for the last 8 years
ALL information to educate people has been provided by normal individual independence supporters, which although truthful doesn’t have the authoritative credibility of official documentation so is not taken as gospel
There is also the matter of a PROMISED vaunted rebuttal unit which will DESTROY any and all lies and misinformation put out by the unionist outlets , despite promoting the VOW liar for his undoubted ability to discern lies from truth it appears that he is either unwilling or unable to work against his previous MASTERS so to date scant information would be a generous description
sturgeon and her morons have latched on to this go out and convince 2 others and we will get there pish , because ANY failing of numbers just results in them blaming the movement for NOT having convinced enough people , job done blame allocated
Hatuey says:
1 October, 2022 at 10:40 pm
Vlad is currently taking on the whole of NATO and basically running rings around them. If NATO even gets close to bugging him, he’ll utter a few carefully chosen words and the whole west will spiral into a frenzied panic about Armageddon.
At the moment, the R’s occupy 116,000 sq km of Ukr territory. The landmass of Scotland is 78,000 sq km. so that’s roughly Scotland plus a third, and they’ve done it with 150k troops.
They are spread pretty thin in places, which enables the Ukr to recover some territory, but these counter offensives stall the moment they encounter more organised defence.
The U counterattacks are described as naive and costly, essentially driving at the enemy across open ground without any preliminary bombardment of the defences, and the R lines are holding.
The Ukr are losing equipment at an unsustainable rate, and supplies of armour are failing to make up for losses. Slovenia is now sending 28 No. T55 tanks to Ukr, which date from the 1950’s, yes 70 years ago, although the tanks were “modernised” in the 1990’s. While excellent tanks in their day, they are simply obsolete.
Given all the billions sent to Ukr in military aid, why are they sending their troops into battle in these museum pieces? The modernisation features a British made 105mm gun which allows the tank to fire on the move, but the calibre is that of a wheeled reconnaissance vehicle rather than a main battle tank.
In due course, the 150k R troops will be augmented by 300k mobilised reserves, (1% of the total reserves), just as the region turns to mud and movement is seriously curtailed.
These figures are not generally disputed, yet the narrative runs that the R’s were defeated and their invasion of Ukr thwarted… If that was true, the R’s set out to invade a nation of 41 million people with 150k troops. Do the arithmetic yourselves.
The Ukr are not going to expel the R’s. They are losing men and equipment at a ratio of 10 to 1, and that has been with superior numbers of men and modern weaponry augmented with the best NATO could deliver, not 1950’s relics and conscripts. Again, do the arithmetic yourselves.
The Donbas is now R motherland, so the R “Special Operation”, which the R’s have never called war, is now defence of homeland so the stakes are that much higher. To reverse this situation militarily is all but impossible, and will just lead to the slaughter of countless soldiers. It’s time for sober realism and peace negotiations, or a major escalation which I don’t believe Europe or even NATO has the stomach for.
I am not pro Russian, but if you open your eyes, the numbers, the maps, the casualties are broadly indicative that Mr Put’s rhetoric has been much closer to the reality than the Western hysteria of Ukr being wiped off the map and the Russians invading all the former Sov Block nations. The lies have all come from the Western media, and the source of this tension has been NATO’s intrusive expansion mixed with US destabilisation of Ukr in 2014 to install an vociferously anti-Rus government.
There is adequate knowledge of responsibility for a peace to be had, an end to the killing, and leave it to the diplomats and politicians to argue for decades whether R’s intervention was provoked and justified, or wholly illegitimate and vexatious.
You may not like it as an untidy conclusion, but the alternative is infinitely more dangerous and prone to uncontrollable escalation.
And once it’s all cooled down a bit, we really need to talk about NATO…
“Western hysteria of Ukr being wiped off the map”
Strong stuff this western hysteria.
It can conjure up columns of tanks on the outskirts of Kiev.
It can force Mad Vlad to make speeches justifying the complete annexation of Ukr.
Here in Scotland, we have something that has to be called Scottish hysteria.
It can make you believe that when autumn rains turn terrain to mud, it stays mud when the temperature drops below freezing.
It can make you believe that when 300k reservists are called up, and 100k of these immediately flee the country, you still have 300k.
“When the people rise up”
Let’s hope Vlad has our backs.
He will get the referendum done, for a start. Vote Yes at gunpoint, with the option of expulsion across the border if you don’t like it. The man’s not an orc, after all.
I am already looking forwards to direct holiday flights to Chad from major Scottish airports.
Is it possible the AUOB organisation aren’t just taking the piss?
Are they just lulling people into a false sense that they are doing something, basically just keeping the people happy?
I’m highly suspicious of this organisation. Is there any money involved?
If they are going to invite SNP politicians to their protest I would suggest it would be to “throw rotten tomatoes” at them not to listen to the SSDD.
It’s great that people are having a nice day out meeting up with others and having a walk about town but sadly I think that’s all these marches achieve.
People are now desensitised to these AUOB marches.
I’m happy to be corrected.
I don’t see any press coverage in the Herald about the Edinburgh march.
There is this which happened on the same day:
https://archive.ph/kLCXL
Maybe ‘AUOB’ & ‘Enough Is Enough’ should get together and offer independence as a solution.
I haven’t really read this article very thoroughly but my initial impression is that they are offering a UK Labour Gov as a solution to all our problems.
John Main says: at 8:28 am
“Strong stuff this western hysteria.
It can conjure up columns of tanks on the outskirts of Kiev…”
Aye it’s the totes pukka shit for epic tripping experiences. You’ll no doubt recall that same hysteria about Iraq having WMDs that could reach us in 45mins.
https://www.history.com/topics/france/french-revolution
I think I might read some history today to cheer myself up.
Could a revolution every happen in Scotland or are we just too British too phlegmatic. “Mustn’t grumble’
or are we like victims of abuse just too afraid to do anything?
Thought this when reading about Turpin children.
https://tinyurl.com/2s4dc3xx
Do we just need one person to dial 911?
@ Breeks
Using older tanks may be better for the health of those inside.
But for more accuracy best ask the lads of the modern Challenger tanks what they think. As through safety protocol they weren’t to wear gloves when loading the Charm-3 Depleted Uranium shells in case the gloves got caught in gun breech, then later have lumps on their bawsacks or the odd testicle removed.
@Dan says:2 October, 2022 at 9:26 am
“You’ll no doubt recall that same hysteria about Iraq having WMDs that could reach us in 45mins”
Indeed, I remember it well. That was a lie, as we all know now.
I remember well the 45km long column of Russian tanks, the head of which got to within 25km of Kiev. That was not a lie, as we all know now, possibly with yourself as the sole exception.
You will have to explain what point you were trying to make by setting up a lie against a fact, an untruth against a truth, and claiming some sort of equivalence between the two.
By all means ramble off into some “truth is an artificial construct we build to rationalise our biases” BS if you wish, but just don’t expect that approach can gain any traction when attempting to bolster the Indy case.
Cos that’s what this site is about. Building support for Indy amongst rational, thinking, Scots.
@Breeks says:2 October, 2022 at 3:41 am
A truly awesome example of how if you string enough half-truths together, you can reach any conclusion you desire.
Let’s look at one example from Breeks parked breakfast, and submit it to the usual 30-seconds of on line research:
“Slovenia is now sending 28 No. T55 tanks to Ukr, which date from the 1950’s”
First off, they are M55s, not T55s. To understand the difference, do your own 30-seconds of research.
Or, if you are a fan of Bitchin Rides and GMG, consider this example. These guys take, say, a 65 Chevy and drop in a crated 450 HP motor with mated autobox and drive-by-wire. New coilovers and discs all round. Chassis reinforcements, new wheels and radials, paintjob, interior and 1000watt sound system. Now, is that still really a 65 Chevy?
Naw, it’s naw. Is it then, true, to say of the owner “that poor jerk is such a loser he’s still driving around in a 65 Chevy”?
Naw, it’s naw.
Is Breeks really so dense that he can’t work this stuff out for himself?
Naw, he’s naw.
So for what purpose does Breeks and the the other usual suspects on here post lies and half truths day after day after day?
And the final question.
How do these people think the posting of lies and half-truths on here, day after day after day, helps the Indy cause?
Dan says:
2 October, 2022 at 9:38 am
@ Breeks
Using older tanks may be better for the health of those inside.
Not sure it counts as better for your health, but you probably won’t have to worry about any long illness that’s for sure.
Ian Brotherhood says:
1 October, 2022 at 9:18 pm
Like him or not, if we had a leader who cared half as much about Scotland as P***n does about his country, we wouldn’t be in the shite we are right now.
Hot tip! If you Tiny the link it makes it easier.
https://tinyurl.com/4jnae6rs
That is one powerful speech.
I found muting the sound and just reading the subtitles made it easier.
He talks about a semi-colony and I’m wondering what he means by that.
He also says
They do not want us to be free they want us to be a colony.
That hit home and I tried to imagine Sturgeon ever uttering something similar.
Western morals
“Now they have moved on entirely, to a radical denial of moral norms, religion, and family …
“The dictatorship of the Western elites is directed against all societies, including the peoples of the Western countries themselves. This is a challenge to all. This is a complete denial of humanity, the overthrow of faith and traditional values. Indeed, the suppression of freedom itself has taken on the features of a religion: outright Satanism.”
“Do we really want, here, in our country, in Russia, instead of ‘mum’ and ‘dad’, to have ‘parent number one’, ‘parent number two’, ‘number three’? Have they gone completely insane? Do we really want … it drilled into children in our schools … that there are supposedly genders besides women and men, and [children to be] offered the chance to undergo sex change operations? … We have a different future, our own future.”
I can’t disagree with that. it would be good to hear Sturgeon saying something similar.
We call on the Kiev regime to immediately cease fire and all hostilities, to end the war it unleashed back in 2014 and return to the negotiating table. We are ready for this we have said more than once. But the choice of the people of Donetsk, Lugansk and Khersonn will not be discussed.
Peace talks sounds like a brilliant idea.
I’m sure I can’t be the only alert reader who thinks approving of Vlad’s speech because he asserts his gender critical views (wrapped up of course in a deeply regressive, pro-religious and “family values” worldview that most Scottish nationalists would otherwise find pretty repellent), is akin to folk putting a good word in for fascists in Italy because they cracked down on the mafia and made the trains run on time, or for the NSDAP because they provided lots of jobs and had a good record building autobahns.
Andy Ellis says:
2 October, 2022 at 11:18 am
I’m sure I can’t be the only alert reader who thinks
So much for your nonsense about ignoring me. Is this yet another break?
I’ve read you latest post and I’m surprised it so short but not surprised by the content just more ‘cuntery’ from the resident cunt.
@John Main 10.09 am
There you go, applying logic to the situation again Joh. It’ll never work with the moonhowlers and Brigadooners in here. They actually do believe the BS and are prepared to give Vlad the benefit of the doubt, because the honestly believe he and his ilk around the world are no worse than “the Great Satan”.
In any mass movement you will always get a leavening of contrarians and Popular Front types who will argue black is white. As George Carlin observed:
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
Andy Ellis
Never forget just how popular the policy of rounding up people at gunpoint in the middle of the night and shipping them out in cattle trucks can be for a certain segment of the populace.
And so, so sadly, for a certain segment of Scots too.
It’s bloody brilliant and wildly popular when your neighbors have a bigger house than you, or more stuff.
For myself, I might be open to persuasion. I have long fancied a move to Auld Scotia’s capital, but prices were beyond my reach. Free up a few thousand properties, and I could be in with a shout. Vacant position and no chain. What’s not to like?
And, if the usual suspects get their way, we will have new international bestie Chad to holiday in, with direct flights from Turnhouse.
I am sure these same usual suspects will be able to concoct some form of words that will smooth the objections of the “nicest, friendliest, wee country in the world” narrators.
And if they won’t shut up, well, those cattle trucks were never limited by concepts like “maximum number of occupants”. There was always room for a few more.
Uh oh, Ruby returned to form.
Thing is, Ruby, you had your chance to object when the thread first veered off the subject of Rev Stu’s post.
But you kept schtum, cos it was ane o yer pals posting.
It’s too late now. Your credibility as monitor is shot, sos.
Kaolin and Morphine needed by the resident trolls.
https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-neverending-mandate/comment-page-1/#comment-2705982
How stupid do you have to be to think John Main isn’t stupid?
I’m off I think I’ve triggered the ‘Apartheid Boys’!
Stupid cunts!
Hearing word of another 1500 strong armoured U counteroffensive in Kherson being defeated with heavy casualties after clashing with Wagner and Chechen special forces.
I kinda struggle with Wagner. They seem to be a bit of a “privatised” regiment of the Rus military, who train fully integrated with the normal military, but somehow aren’t mercenaries… allegedly. I’m not sure the West has any equivalent. They’re like a cross between “proper” army, but with the deniability and expendability of mercenaries.. or something.
The U’s are desperate for some kind of victory before the battlefront becomes a complete mud zone, but they’re throwing lives away with desperate profligacy and just not achieving it. The weather will soon halt hostile initiatives, but the R’s will use the time to consolidate their lines of defence, so that’s where the pressure is coming from. If you can’t shift ‘em now, you won’t shift ‘em come the Spring. There will 300k more of them for a start…
If ever there was a time for peace talks, it is now…. So beware of a false flag atrocity “wrecking” the possibility of talks, be ready for it to happen, and pray that it does not.
Speculation is rife that the Nordstream sabotage was designed to stop Germany’s resolve over Ukr softening through restored energy supplies in exchange for not rearming U. If that’s true, “somebody” doesn’t want peace talks occurring.
R wants peace talks, anybody sensible in U wants peace talks. We should ALL want peace talks and be deeply suspicious of those who do not.
Edit… 1500 strong being manpower, not armoured vehicles.
John Main says: at 10:06 am
““Indeed, I remember it well. That was a lie, as we all know now.
I remember well the 45km long column of Russian tanks, the head of which got to within 25km of Kiev. That was not a lie, as we all know now, possibly with yourself as the sole exception.
You will have to explain what point you were trying to make by setting up a lie against a fact, an untruth against a truth, and claiming some sort of equivalence between the two.”
John presuming I was claiming some sort of equivalence, when I was merely highlighting the way hysteria can be whipped up based on truth or lie by the MSM as and when it suits and depending on what agenda and narrative they want to push.
https://www.barrheadboy.com/democracy-is-an-illusion/
Thanks for the update Breeks.
Looks like the Russtis are victorious on all fronts.
Makes me wonder why they need to keep threatening nuclear Armageddon, what with being so categorically on top. Or is that just western lies, so that the west can set off a nuke, then blame it on the Russtis, cos the U’s are being smashed?
Do tell, Breeks, it’s just so confusing for we who don’t get to “hear word” like you do.
Care to list those who don’t want peace talks, so we can get our suspicions deepened? Would those who don’t want peace talks be the same ones who have in the past week listed those items which are not up for negotiation?
As that covers both sides in the shooting war, we really are a bit screwed.
Anyways, silver linings and all that. Kudos for leaving out “neo-Nazis”. Maybes dropping in that one at the same time as mentioning Wagner was too wide a cognitive dissonance for even you to bridge.
Were you in the REME, Breeks? Your ability to bridge yawning chasms of cognitive dissonance is awesome!
Hearing word of another 1500 strong armoured U counteroffensive in Kherson being defeated with heavy casualties after clashing with Wagner and Chechen special forces.
What can be asserted without evidence can be similarly dismissed. Of course, worth remembering that Vlad’s bestie Chechen leader Ramzan Kadyrov is a thoroughly nasty piece of work who has just called for the use of tactical nuclear weapons against Country 404.
The Russian information space – composed of Kremlin propagandists, pundits, and milbloggers – registered the defeat as the result of the Russian military command’s failure to send reinforcements in a timely manner, while openly criticizing repeated bureaucratic failures during the mobilization.[2] Russian commentators overwhelmingly expressed their hopes that partial mobilization would generate enough force to resume offensive operations and regain the initiative. Chechen leader Ramzan Kadyrov, apparently devastated by the defeat in Lyman, called on Russia to continue to fight to ”liberate” the four annexed territories with all available means including low-yield nuclear weapons.[3]
Kadyrov’s rant is similar to the disorganized and often hyperbolic milblogger rants that call for the Kremlin to continue the war in Uk raine, and his call for the use of nuclear weapons was not representative of the discourse within the Russian information space. Russian federal TV channels and ultra-hawkish milbloggers have often discussed Russian nuclear capabilities as part of their efforts to stoke patriotic sentiments among Russian domestic audiences, and Kadyrov’s statement was not especially noteworthy in this context.
Kadyrov’s call for using tactical nuclear weapons is likely inconsistent with his demands to continue the “special military operation” to bring more Uk rainian territory under Russian control. The Russian military in its current state is almost certainly unable to operate on a nuclear battlefield even though it has the necessary equipment and has historically trained its units to do so. The chaotic agglomeration of exhausted contract soldiers, hastily mobilized reservists, conscripts, and mercenaries that currently comprise the Russian ground forces could not function in a nuclear environment. Any areas affected by Russian tactical nuclear weapons would thus be impassable for the Russians, likely precluding Russian advances. This consideration is another factor that reduces the likelihood of Russian tactical nuclear weapons use.
https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-october-1
Dan
Here’s a wee quote from Barrheid:
“Those US and NATO shells killing them in their thousands convinced them they would be safer under the Russian Federation”
It seems to be a constant factor in all who write in support of Indy that they can’t keep to the facts of any situation, but always have to resort to ever-increasing flights of fancy until the objective reader reluctantly says:
Naw, BS detector just went off.
As for those claiming there is nothing suspect about referenda showing Yes votes of 99%, what do you expect when the No voters have been ethnically cleansed?
It is the people on here who claim that this is somehow acceptable that all decent Scots find to be abhorrent. But as I have pointed out before, if this is acceptable because it does indeed provide the “cunning plan for Indy”, at least state this openly and honestly.
Back to the topic of Scotland and its people trying to escape the hard nosed colonial regime that has been lording it over Scotland for centuaries ,
The regime that tells Scotland it cannot leave a internalional treaty it has since altered to its own colonising benefit.
A british Regime that lies to Scotland about its oil resources to make sure the people in Scotland do not thrives financially.
A british regime that has replaced Scots law with English Law outside the mythical treaty of union.
A british regime that uses MSM to advertise the land of Scotland as going cheap to any outsider out with Scotland with money.
A british regime that that taxes Scotland’s people and exchanges the value of Scottish taxation money for a reduce financial Barnett formula.
A british regime that does not allow scotland to have it own true Broadcasting media,
A british regime that thinks the people in Scotland should not have a vote on their future when politics changed drastically.
A british regime that went around europe persuading other countries to interfere with their opinions on Scottish independence referendums in 2014.
A british regime that has the msm in its pockets and made up laws from the crown to prevent Scotland and Scottish leaders of independence having freedom under kangaroo crown courts.
A british regime that attempts time and again to steal or buy The Sovereignty of the Scottish people.
A british regime that can decide on outcome of Scottish votes by owning voting franchise for Scotland
A british regime that taxes britain as one country and then taxes Scotland a second time under the Barnett Formula when it sends money to another country for weapons in a undemocratic regime change of another country.
A british regime that has no receipts or tracking of british tax payers billions funneled out of britain while the british people go hungry and cold.
A british regime that fakes fair democracy for Scotland within Britain, but is willing to pump up war and death for fake democracy in other countries,
We are under a regime in Scotland of british dictatorship, we need other countries in Europe and nato to give us money and provide protection of Scotland’s democracy,
Its about time the UN stepped up to the plate and decolonised Scotland.
Britain seems to live in a glass house while throwing stones at others countries with fake roars of justice for everyone everywhere except Scotland.
James Che , round of applause – perfectly put.
John Main says:
2 October, 2022 at 10:06 am
@Dan says:2 October, 2022 at 9:26 am
“You’ll no doubt recall that same hysteria about Iraq having WMDs that could reach us in 45mins”
Indeed, I remember it well. That was a lie, as we all know now.
—
That’s the ghost of David Kelly on the phone for you, he says it was known to be a lie long before the first bomb was even dropped on Iraq.
You still happily fought alongside a Scot desperate to see a ‘Daisy Cutter’ in action…
https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-meaning-of-tolerance/#comment-2705546
‘Spit and polish the potato parade’ – that’s you that is.
Tell us all again why we should trust your analysis of anything military?
James Che says:
We are under a regime in Scotland of british dictatorship, we need other countries in Europe and nato to give us money and provide protection of Scotland’s democracy,
Its about time the UN stepped up to the plate and decolonised Scotland.
How do we go about informing other countries in Europe about our predicament?
Any suggestions?
None of what you posted will be news to anyone on here but with the exception of Catalonia I doubt if anyone in Europe has a clue about Scotland that probably includes England.
How do we go about informing the world about these injustices?
The Scottish people living under the colonial regime of Britain for centuries recognise from experience of dealings that little truth and honesty is upheld as a banner.
That truth is often twisted, and that omissions are as big as lies,
That if you control the media you control the propaganda narrative.
And Scotland recognises from experience that people never chose war first, they have nothing to gain but death to their families and destruction of their villages and towns,
But those leaders wishing to benefit financially from new resources in a captured land will drive war to last native of that country is dead with no humanity in their own hearts or minds towards another human,
As long as they achieve the benefits of the out come of that war for themselves.
This is what we see has happened to Scotland and what remains of the Scottish people.
Our land, sea , and resources are stolen under violence, war, and a enforced non voluntary treaty of threat and duress.
And yet those people here ramping up the MSM narrative of war ask us to have a believe system in the very thing that has been attacking Scotland and its people for centuries.
You will not change the minds of the people of Scotland whom are politically fighting for their own freedom from such regime change,
Your best going to the SNP website if you want support for your war talk.
They are not one of us,
they are more inclined to do a Hilary,
We remember that prime minsters of Britain have not been honest with us. We remember how bias and untruthful MSM has been to us,
If you like attacking humans join the Tories or SNP.
Ruby,
We just do it. The people.
With out the snp.
Breaking up Britain, the Scottish PEOPLE withdrawing from the treaty, The news will spread far and wide very quickly.
Do it and then the voice of Scotland will be heard for the first time in Centuries.
Waiting to be heard by the rest of the world
Is very different from, making yourself heard by the rest of the world.
@Scott 2:25
I fully agree with your assessment of Dr. David Kelly’s conclusions.
I fully agree that the good doctor was right.
As for your assessment that I have been there, done that, got the T shirt, maybes polished a few tatties along the way, why would that mean my military analysis is suspect?
Hope you’re not one of those automatic expert distrusters. If applied consistently, how could you ever get on a bus, get a tooth filled, or get your gas boiler serviced?
Regarding daisy cutters, technology marches on as we perfect ever more powerful and efficient ways of exterminating each other. The Russtis have thermobaric weapons now. I don’t know if they have used them, but no doubt if they have, one of the usual suspects will justify their use for us.
James Che says:
2 October, 2022 at 3:15 pm
Ruby,
We just do it. The people.
With out the snp.
Breaking up Britain, the Scottish PEOPLE withdrawing from the treaty, The news will spread far and wide very quickly.
Do it and then the voice of Scotland will be heard for the first time in Centuries.
Waiting to be heard by the rest of the world
Is very different from, making yourself heard by the rest of the world.
How do we go about informing the world that we have withdrawn from the treaty? How do we make the voice of Scotland heard?
John Main says:
2 October, 2022 at 3:17 pm
@Scott 2:25
I fully agree with your assessment of Dr. David Kelly’s conclusions.
I fully agree that the good doctor was right.
As for your assessment that I have been there, done that, got the T shirt, maybes polished a few tatties along the way, why would that mean my military analysis is suspect?
—
Once a squaddie, always a stoopid cunt, innit.
Reminder that the deid former Queen was head of the armed forces when David Kelly’s body was found – not Anthony Charles Lynton Blair or Alastair John Campbell or Worzel Gummidge or even UK Parliament.
Each and every ‘soldier’ and politician from UK that participated in ‘Gulf War 2″ is a war criminal. I spit on you all.
Ruby,
You do not need to march on the streets like Catalonia,
You co not need the snp political party to do it for you.
You do not need violent protests where you can be beaten up.
We do not need a devolved government from England.
We do not need a supreme court decision to tell us when we can be free.
If you want to save the people in Scotland from austerity, from poverty, from the energy crises, from big corporations, from food shortages.
We run a PARALLEL COMMUNITY OF SCOTS.
Before the usually voice’s of unionism screech you can’t do that,
How will it work?
Who will run it?
That would be UDI.
The usual troupe,
The community of Scotland will run it,
Half it it is already organised, and the rest is is familiar in existing systems,
And no it would not be UDI…That is the legal term used when governments are involved with separating from a existing government.
Not Sovereign people.
@ James Che 2.25 and Dorothy Devine 2.41: excellent summary JC of the poison being fed to Scotland.
Our MPs and MSPs do nothing about it. You’d almost think they didn’t understand the Claim of Right but it couldn’t be clearer – the People are Sovereign in Scotland. And the leader’s job is to protect us from England and the English. Why don’t they do it?
@John Main 1.34 pm
As for those claiming there is nothing suspect about referenda showing Yes votes of 99%, what do you expect when the No voters have been ethnically cleansed?
Indeed. Worth remembering of course that in 1991, 90% of those in the Kherson and Zaporizhe oblasts voted for independence, along with 83% of those in Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts.
Of course Vlad and his Orcs don’t control half of the Donetsk oblast and a large part of Zaporizhe. I see they’ve just surrendered Lyman in the northern Donetsk with reports of several thousand Orcs surrounded, and that the forces of COuntry 404 have now re-taken neighbouring parts of the Luhansk oblast occupied by the Orcs in the early days of the war.
Doubtless Breeks and Hatuey our armchair generals and Orc fluffers extraordinary will be along directly to tell us that Vlad and his nice bunch of lads are still winning their “special military operation”? 🙂
Scott says:
2 October, 2022 at 2:55 pm
Tell us all again why we should trust your analysis of anything military?
He seems to be saying he is an expert in all things military. 🙂
That you should trust him because when he visits the dental surgery with raging toothache he believes the dentist when he tells him that he needs a filling and he believes buses are safe and gas boilers need to be serviced.
We run a PARALLEL COMMUNITY OF SCOTS.
Not so much PARALLEL COMMUNITY OF SCOTS, more a PARALLEL REALITY OF BRIGADOONERS.
History tells us to beware of people who can make others believe in absurdities.
sarah says:
2 October, 2022 at 3:39 pm
@ James Che 2.25 and Dorothy Devine 2.41: excellent summary JC of the poison being fed to Scotland.
Our MPs and MSPs do nothing about it. You’d almost think they didn’t understand the Claim of Right but it couldn’t be clearer – the People are Sovereign in Scotland. And the leader’s job is to protect us from England and the English. Why don’t they do it?
I don’t understand what James Che is suggesting. It’s beyond me. I need things to be explained in a simple manner.
How do we go about getting our leaders to understand the Claim of Right? What if they don’t want to understand the ‘Claim of Right’ ‘cos they are Unionists?
James Che earlier this afternoon.
You omitted, a british regime that is ripping the piss out of Scotland and continues to piss over it’s people.
Rudy,
Once the people take action and withdraw from the devolved government in Scotland, the process is started.
First the devolved government would no longer hold your lent sovereignty.
Second they immediately then have no authority over Scots.
The Crown in Westminster does not have authority over Sovereign Scots due to the Claim of Right.
That means westminster has no authority over Sovereign Scots.
This is the part where the UK parliament advertise to the rest of the world communities globally for us.
Westminster challenges would come and be heard across the world against the Scots.
First they have to prove that all Scots were asked to join the treaty of the union and it was not just a political union.
Second they have to explain how the 1706 english parliament was one and the same as the british parliament, been as the english parliament did not end its session until 1708.
Then Westminster would have to explain away all its the breaches of the international treaty since 1706.
Westminster would have to explain why it requested the Scottish parliament to close its doors while the English parliament continued, breaking and breaching the treaty of the union in 1707.
Westminster would have to explain about the poll tax. And other taxes.
The point is with all and any challenges that Westminster charge the Scottish people with for withdrawing from the treaty of the union thus the devolved government that the Uk government legislated for,
it would loose on just about every one of these issues in the wider world of the treaties, the UN and so on.
Westminster would have to explain away why they sent an army to Scotland to enforce and quell the Scots protestations and objections to being in a treaty of union with England.
Westminster would have to explain why the shires of Scotland written protests were ignored.
These breaches are but a small portion of the breaches that Westminster is guilty of, there are are multitude of others.
The thing is what the UK parliament would not like or want, or like is to have Westminsters failures to uphold their half of a international treaty broadcast around the world,
Televised court cases with the all the world paying attention across europe, America, Rusky, China, New Zealand, Brazil, France, Germany.
The UK would have to make a detrimental decision on wether to let Scotland go in full, to have its independence or being shown up to the rest of the world for its failing for not adhering to the international treaty and colonising the treaty for UK’s government treaty rather than a equal Scotland/ england international treaty.
The how soon and when is up to us to get organised as a community that wants to save itself from the comimg economical financial crash.
auld highlander,
In one way your right, I did forget to mention it, but on the other hand I did not mention it as most Scots bought up here already are aware of it,
But wise to bring it up as there are new Scots that do not know that.
@ Ruby: “how do we get our politicians to understand the Claim of Right? They might not want to…Unionists..”
Even Westminster accepts the Claim. So it is a lever to shift our politicians. If a Tory MSP says they accept the Claim then we can say to them that their job is to protect us from England and the English, as explicitly stated in the Arbroath Declaration. It has moral and legal legitimacy.
By putting it in front of them we are forcing them to recognise that they are on the spot. Make them uncomfortable. If they accept the Claim they cannot also be Unionist – it is a totally contradictory position.
There is no point doing nothing and suffering the consequences. At least send an email to the MSPs and MPs.
James Che says:
2 October, 2022 at 4:40 pm
Rudy,
Once the people take action and withdraw from the devolved government in Scotland, the process is started.
Sorry I still don’t understand what kind of action?
sarah says:
2 October, 2022 at 4:48 pm
Even Westminster accepts the Claim.
I’m just not getting it Sarah. Sorry! If Westminster accept the claim why on earth are they refusing a section 30?
sarah says:
2 October, 2022 at 4:48 pm
@ Ruby: “how do we get our politicians to understand the Claim of Right? They might not want to…Unionists..”
Even Westminster accepts the Claim. So…
Sooner or later, and I hope it’s sooner, the Claim of Right will be “weaponised” if you pardon the expression, and while it seems to be my own personal hobby horse, I firmly believe Scottish Sovereignty will need codified to include impeachment protocols for sell out politicians.
Sara Salyers was talking about having the power to sack our own Government, which amounts to the same thing I suppose, but to my mind, an impeachment process conjures up the notion of a sequence of protocols of growing severity, with impeachment being the last resort.
That way errant politicians could be “encouraged” to resume the correct path from which they had diverged, and we’d save impeachment for extremes.
For the record however, if it was down to me, Sturgeon would have been impeached AND sacked in 2016 or 2017. Her Constitutional incompetence over Brexit was off the scale. Assuming of course it was incompetence, since outright treachery does seem a more likely explanation.
SNP continues to fail the Indy cause. The SNP had an open goal when the Tories made Johnson their leader. That open goal just got bigger with Truss being made Tory leader. SNP as fuckin usual is doing sweet fuck all. TRAITORS!!!!
‘Safe and Effective: A Second Opinion’
New documentary about vaccine-injured in the UK.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIVZ5ssWB-o
@ Ian Brotherhood, since you’re here at the moment, a little bird told me this afternoon that you’re now a limbo-dancer. If you could give me the details of your instructor, I’d be grateful, since I need to use another muscle-group beyond my intensive yoga sessions 😉 . The Laydees love a Lithe’un!
I’ve noticed some of the real intellectuals btl here referring to “The Bonnie Purple Heather Brigade”. It sounds really great so if anyone out there knows the contact details of its membership secretary, could they let me know?
And oblige, TC.
sarah says:
There is no point doing nothing and suffering the consequences. At least send an email to the MSPs and MPs
It looks as if I am one step ahead of the game as I have already withdrawn from the devolved government so I won’t be emailing any politicians. I have zero respect for any SNP politician that includes the so called good guys. If I email them they might get the impression that I have respect for them.
Is all this ‘claim of rights’ stuff not just muddying the waters. Would we not be better concentrating on why Sturgeon has failed to get us a Section 30?
Tinto Chiel says:
2 October, 2022 at 5:56 pm
I’ve noticed some of the real intellectuals btl here referring to “The Bonnie Purple Heather Brigade”. It sounds really great so if anyone out there knows the contact details of its membership secretary, could they let me know
You can just self-id as a member. If you fancy doing the ceilidh workout you just knock twice and say ‘Chas sent me’.
That ceilidh workout is miles better than any Yoga or limbo dancing your after a couple of ‘Strip the willows’ and an ‘Eightsome reel’ you’ll be so lithe and limber you’ll be gyrating your pelvis like Elvis. Uh-huh-huh! Got any nice blue suede shoes? 🙂
https://tinyurl.com/2fjaands
Scott says
“I spit on you all”
Careful, Scott, may be some readers on here into that kind of thing.
What’s your view on pissing? Asking for an open-minded, adventurous friend.
@TC (5.56) –
It’s a secret!
😉
Ruby,
Muddying the waters,
No exactly opposite.
It is the political weapon at the end of your boot to kick the Snp and members of the Scottish devolved government into base if they want to remain representatives of the Scots.
Then if they do not follow the the Scots claim of Right and treaty of the union more lawfully on behalf of the Scots with the four mandates they have already been given, ( they dont need any more) then we the people walk away from the Scottish devolved government.
For none in the devolved government are following the articles of treaty of political union.
That Scotland is still a recognised Country.
That Scotland has terretorial borders.
That Scots as native to Scotland are Sovereign.
That Scotland has its own laws that were to be protected.
That Scotland is supposed to retain its own religions and education systems.
That the people of Scotland are a Scottish community in their own right in their own country.
That Scotland is the only other signatory to the articles of the political union,
It is not just the Snp that is failing to follow the treaty of the union word for word and article by article and protect the Scottish people, but the Scottish Devolved government and the English government down south of the mythical treaty of union.,
All these political parties in the devolved government, if genuine political parties representing Scots should be asking questions.
For a start,
Does the treaty of the union actually exist due to the 1706 English parliaments transference of itself into the new created British parliament while requesting and cancelling the Scottish parliament from the treaty of the union in 1707: The political arm , nor the Scottish parliament are represented in the treaty of the union since 1707,
But the English parliament appears to be in a treaty of union with itself, and created Great Britain by itself.
These are political questions all of the Scottish devolved government should be asking if they were representing us.
However if they do not represent us then we are just as well to walk away by ignoring their dictats for the Sovereign Scottish people.
The tories, labour nor the greens are following or taken seriously the Scottish devolved government by holding the SNPs feet to the fire, on the 1707 treaty of the union,
@Ruby: it’s an echtsome reel Where I Am, actually, but I take your point. I do own a pair of blue suede shoes but I have to be careful because, in combination with my hipsway, they can induce spontaneous multiplied organisms. “Mon the Babbity Bowsters!
@IB 6.36: you bloody teaser! I’ve got a stand and cross-bar and everything!
What is the point of Scots having this form of melting snow devolved government when the first warm breeze blows?
@ John Main at 1:34 pm
As I pointed out previously. I’d take anything you have to say on “the war” with a bit more credibility if you had been busily highlighting all the claimed atrocities and ethnic cleansing that had been going on for years in the run up to it all kicking off.
You’ve been posting btl on Wings for quite a long time now, and it was noticeable that you started to post with far more frequency around a year ago for some reason or other.
But as a relatively alert reader of btl posts, I really can’t recall you showing any concern for the subject matter you are so busily occupied with now. It reeks of being reactionary rather than showing any long term genuine interest and concern for the plight of those involved.
Thought you might also be pointing out your warning to 404 about them wanting to align closer with the Europe and that pesky EU you dislike so much…
Hey Dan,
If 404 want to shed tens of thousands of their people’s blood, then dissolve their sovereignty and freedom in the EU, it’s their funeral.
But I think it just as likely that the EU would be dancing to their tune, than vice versa. A sovereign nation that can’t be cowed by armed aggression isn’t going to roll over and take it from pen pushers in suits.
Either way, I believe the effects of EU membership on two very different countries, one with ten times the population of the other, would differ considerably. And one with a population of armed fighters and survivors, whilst the other has raised the aspiration of being “nice” to an art form, can’t expect to both get the same consideration and respect from Brussels. Just ask the Hungarians about that.
Regarding the war in general, I can get by with never posting again about it, as I said on the previous thread. But the usual suspects can’t, so if they won’t leave it alone, I feel no remorse about pointing out their patent idiocies.
Feel free to step up to the plate and put in a shift. All you have to remember is that a Scots Indy supporter can’t cheer on the destruction and enslavement of a free, sovereign, independent people. It’s not difficult.
If you’ve ever wondered what The Great Reset by Klaus Schwab is all about, this review may help.
https://alilybit.substack.com/p/covid-19-the-great-reset-is-the-perfect?utm_source=twitter&sd=pf
Army? British Army? Not a scientist then?
Hahahahahahahaha
The lad’s done well for himself…
Thinking about watching Ian’s video on the vaccine but I sense it’ll be downer.
Left. Left. Left, right, left.
There aren’t half some nutters posting on this forum asking some very weird questions.
John Main says:
2 October, 2022 at 6:29 pm
What’s your view on pissing?
I wonder if that is a typo and he maybe meant kissing?
Not a lot to say about pissing except that it’s a necessary bodily function.
My advice to John Main would be if his girlfriend doesn’t piss then he should definitely avoid giving her a love bite.
An ‘open-minded, adventurous friend’ of mine gave his girlfriend a love-bit & she farted and blew right out the window. 🙂
I added a 🙂 just incase
On the bright side Westminster always throws its little helpers under a bus eventually, always!
Nicola will end up in jail when it suits them.
There is an old Arab saying:
“its better to be the English man’s enemy that his friend. If you his enemy he will try and buy you, if your his friend he will sell you.
@John Main 7.24 pm
Polling suggests the % of Scots in favour of EU membership has increased since brexit not reduced, which suggests they don’t buy your view of the EU. I have little doubt the good folk of Country 404 will probably be similarly keen to achieve membership. Hungary isn’t a big enough country to make much of a difference. Orban’s government will either be isolated, or eventually faced down. The Hungarians need the EU more than vice versa.
When Vlad and his Orcs are finally defeated we can expect to see not just the further and accelerated integration of country 404, but a deepening of a European defence identity, whether still aligned to NATO/US or increasingly independent remains to be seen.
Doubtless many of the knee jerk critics of the Great Satan would give at least two cheers for that, although perhaps we’d just be confirmed as the Little Satan? I’m sure Vlad would approve. After all, if the master throws some coppers in the tin, the performing monkeys are obliged to dance.
‘Murica isny gonna shag ye, Ellis, no matter how smooth yer moves and patter are.
I’m not as old as you, but in my lifetime, the obvious person to fear the most is “the most powerful man on the planet”.
I’ll change my mind when that situation changes.
This is a Twitter thread for those who railed against any querying of the whole ‘covid’ narrative.
These are your spokespeople. These people represent you. They fed you the script and you cheered them on every step of the way, demonising family, friends and neighbours in the process.
Aye, these are *your* people and you won’t be allowed to forget it.
Permanent burning shame on each and every one of you.
twitter.com/FreedomWorld_/status/1576204853390770176
Ian B @ 8.59 & 10.06
Thanks for that n that : n you 🙂
@Robert Hughes (10.39) –
Appreciated.
😉
I voted for independence when Salmond lead the SNP. The Sturgeon years however have taught me that a small, well organised, politically savvy group can utterly ruin a small country like ours. The lack of accountability is far too dangerous.
Andy Ellis
It puzzles me how people can be in favour of EU membership when they don’t have a scooby what the costs, benefits, terms & conditions of that membership will be.
Maybes they just “have faith”.
Most strange. You would think, after 3 centuries of being trapped in a rancid union, that Scots would be wary of immediately jumping into another one without first knowing the details.
It most certainly can’t be a reflex from colonisation that’s left us feeling too wee, too poor and too stupid to stand on our own feet.
Wings,
please, please, please can you don your journalistic hat & please use your skills to deep dive into the murky world of lobby groups? Who is pulling her strings & shelving indyref?
Something stinks starting here.
The involvement of Robertson.
& McDonalds new found flip-flops of *friends* at conference.
Also, any comment on ‘The Labour Files’ 3 part explosive docu by al jazeera on the fiddling going on by these groups in government?
https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20220524-the-scottish-government-is-silencing-palestinians/
& this one, please..
Why is Police Scotland closing events & trying to shut down others?
https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20220926-western-democracy-is-being-destroyed-to-protect-israel/
John Main says:
2 October, 2022 at 11:25 pm
Most strange. You would think, after 3 centuries of being trapped in a rancid union, that Scots would be wary of immediately jumping into another one without first knowing the details.
Spot the schoolboy error!
Nobody is trapped in the EU. The EU ain’t the Hotel California.
Further views on pishing since you asked.
You post a load of absolute pish but don’t worry Andy Ellis has your back. I suspect that might be because you are his only friend on here …. apart from Chas who pops in every so often to offer Ellis advice. 🙂
Ruby says:
3 October, 2022 at 12:18 am
You post a load of absolute pish but don’t worry Andy Ellis has your back. I suspect that might be because you are his only friend on here …. apart from Chas who pops in every so often to offer Ellis advice. ?
Something very Sensible Dave about him too I’ve always thought.
Breeks says:
3 October, 2022 at 12:28 am
Ruby says:
3 October, 2022 at 12:18 am
You post a load of absolute pish but don’t worry Andy Ellis has your back. I suspect that might be because you are his only friend on here …. apart from Chas who pops in every so often to offer Ellis advice. ?
Something very Sensible Dave about him too I’ve always thought.
Do you mean because he comes across as an English Unionist?
I don’t remember ‘Sensible Dave’ posting a load of absolute pish well apart from the ‘Better Together’ pish but at least you knew where ‘Sensible Dave’ was coming from.
I’m pretty sure he’s the ‘Norse Warrior/Independence Now’ poster from the Scotsman.
I hope ‘Sensible Dave’ is OK and not too depressed by the state of the UK.
I would be happy to swap ‘Sensible Dave’ for ‘The Norse Warrior from East Kilbride’
although I can’t imagine ‘Sensible Dave’ would want to show his face around here all things considered.
Ruby says:
3 October, 2022 at 8:08 am
Something very Sensible Dave about him too I’ve always thought.
Do you mean because he comes across as an English Unionist?
I don’t have any problem with English Unionists, nor Scottish ones, there just aren’t many about. Not genuine unionists who want Scotland respected as an equal partner in Union, but rather trussed up in perpetual subjugation with our resources exploited to keep the South of England living in the style it’s become accustomed to. Why do we call them Unionists when the literal chapter and verse of the Union and a modicum of respect for Scotland utterly horrifies them?
Sensible Dave only turns up to gloat when he’s something to be obnoxious about. He was one of the earlier “disrupters” bringing a sour tone and tiresome ignorance to the comments section.
His primary objective seemed to be getting under people’s skin rather than say anything constructive, and there was something thoroughly disingenuous about the fella, the cleverdick himself, and his “other” persona patting him on the back for being so clever and getting us “telt”, when all of us knew it was transparent drivel from the same person.
Struck me as a Walter Mitty type, and I had a notion he only posted here at all to show his mates in the Conservative Club “darn sarf” that he had his finger on the pulse of events in Scotchland, like some Victorian imbecile doing his missionary stint in deepest darkest Africa.
I’d have to think, but he might have been my first Scroll on By. Sadly, that list just got longer and longer, in part because a lot of borderline trolls had one syllable names and kinda fitted a common profile, and mostly contributing to the disruption.
Sensible Dave wasn’t a Unionist, but a sadly typical shit stirrer, which at the risk of sounding prejudiced, England seems to produce by the bucketload. I don’t know whether that’s demerit upon England, or a demerit upon Scotland for being so gullible and susceptible to the shit stirring.
Breeks says:
Sensible Dave only turns up to gloat when he’s something to be obnoxious about. He was one of the earlier “disrupters” bringing a sour tone and tiresome ignorance to the comments section.
His primary objective seemed to be getting under people’s skin rather than say anything constructive, and there was something thoroughly disingenuous about the fella, the cleverdick himself, and his “other” persona patting him on the back for being so clever and getting us “telt”, when all of us knew it was transparent drivel from the same person.
Struck me as a Walter Mitty type, and I had a notion he only posted here at all to show his mates in the Conservative Club “darn sarf” that he had his finger on the pulse of events in Scotchland, like some Victorian imbecile doing his missionary stint in deepest darkest Africa.
I definitely see what you mean now! Yes something very ‘Sensible Dave’ about the pair of them.
In B , is it safe to watch the video or will it take me to lower depths as Gorky might say?
IAN!
@Dorothy Devine –
It’s a Rogues Gallery.
You’ll probably be familiar with the faces and scaremongering already but it may come in useful for reference purposes as and when folk start to forget just how much we were all subjected to.
They’re already ramping up the fear for this winter – if we don’t learn from what happened last time then they’ll do it all again.
It was just a matter of time before the so-called anti-vaxxers declared war on the rest of us, buoyed by the belief that they were right and the rest of us were wrong.
It’s a big subject.
Some of what the anti-vaxxers said proved to be right, I’m happy to concede that, but the truth is they were guessing — there was no scientific evidence to support many of the views that they expressed at the time. There was evidence on the the other side, though, and, even if it turned out to be a pile of rancid lies, it was compelling enough at the time.
Some of their views, like the whole 5G theory, were simply nuts. I think we can all agree on that.
I’ll credit Ian Brotherhood for saying something at the time that for some odd reason stuck and rang a couple of alarm bells… I’m paraphrasing from memory but it went something like;
I don’t know how people can believe and trust what big pharma and government are saying about covid when they doubt and question everything else they say and should know better…
No offence, Ian, but that’s the only thing you said during the lockdown years that I attached any importance to. It turned out to be a much more profound point than anyone realised at the time.
That’s more or less all I have to say on this. I won’t be taking any more covid vaccines — I believe they are far more dangerous than anyone wants to admit. My trust in medical experts is at an all time low, but it wasn’t that high to begin with.
Kudos Hatuey : it displays admirable honesty to * admit * you ( one ) got something wrong . Who hasn’t ? A few of people on here might want to do the same .
Without going into it all again …..what raised my scepticism was the uniformity of the messaging by MSM and the , surely by now , thoroughly discredited Political Class + the rigorous refusal to permit any dissident opinion to be heard .
……as a rule of thumb now ; if Sturgeon is advocating something – I’m against it
Had a wee laugh at the comedy gold title of the SNP MP Alison Thewliss’s title at Westminster, she’s the SNPs Shadow Chancellor, in what universe would the SNP (a supposedly Scottish independence party) require a Shadow Chancellor at Westminster, and what are the possibilities of the SNP ever being in power at Westminster to have a chancellor.
This ludicrous title given to Thewliss and to other SNP MPs, shows us just how embedded this lot are at Westminster, they’ve absolutely no intention of settling up.
Geri @11.43am.
Police Scotland is controlled via Livingstone and Bain, both answer to the SNP government, the latter even sits in on SNP government meetings. The SNP used have a pro-Palestinian approach, a few years back they changed that stance when Angus Robertson became good buddies with Shia Masot, an Israeli/ Mossad operative.
@Hatuey (1.36) –
I don’t recognise the quote you attribute to me but I suppose it’s possible that I did write that. Can’t be bothered trawling back to check so I’m happy to take your word for it.
However, the rest of your comment confuses me.
Plenty of us were voicing concerns about the whole bug/lockdown scenario pretty much from the off. It didn’t look or feel ‘right’. But that doesn’t mean we were going on gut feeling alone, or ‘guessing’ as you put it. The links were provided as the months dragged on. The evidence piled up.
But all the while, terms like ‘anti-vaxxer’ and ‘covidiot’ were used again and again to try and shut us up. Some commenters here still use those terms.
Why would anyone still want to do that? Why turn a blind eye to evidence of our own communities being hideously damaged by a combination of experimental gene therapy, applied behavioural psychology and a relentless 24/7 media campaign backed by a seemingly bottomless pit of cash? Why distract us from asking what the fuck was going on?
If you have changed your mind for real, good. I hope you’ll help raise awareness by sharing some of the links provided recently. But please don’t make this all sound like some kind of weird ‘contest’, as if I, Tinto, Saffron, RoS, Scott, Robert Hughes, Breeks, Dorothy, Daisy Walker or any number of other contributors here in the past 2.5 years are claiming bragging rights. This nightmare isn’t over – it’s nowhere near it – and there are no winners. There’s nothing for anyone to brag about. The best we can hope for is to reach agreement that yes, we have been gulled and hurt and huge damage has already been done, but that doesn’t mean we can’t fight back and make sure it stops.
Republicofscotland.
And we are only policed by consent in Britain, Not any more.
But tell me where in the treaty of union articles does it mention policeing Scotland at all?
IanB,
I’ve got a comment in moderation regarding the vaccine but obviously I don’t know all the censored words, I’ll try to remedy it.
IanB,
Yes, people that were voicing their concerns over the trustworthiness of the information being rammed down everybody’s throat under the guise of science, were being othered by people not just on here but absolutely everywhere.
Andy Ellis for one, stated that not being vaccinated was comparable with drink driving.
This and more, is the sort of nonsense dissenters had to deal with.
Ian Brotherhood,
Re the virus and lockup of people.
I think You can add me to that list, if you remember I was one of those that stated We lost four family members after taken the vaccines in six month period.
And We observed that power of lock ups went to sturgeon head, as in against Scots law, you can not be held captive or imprisoned with charge and a immediate trial by jury.
Something that NS ignored as time went on.
At the beginning of the bug she admitted in a MSM interview that it could only be advisory in Scotland.
She quickly forgot and selectively on canceled certain marches of independence during that time period.
Ian Brotherhood like myself and a few others realised the virus was mentioned by Klaus Swabb to be taken advantage of for the great reset,
To many people on the planet for their liking to quote Mr Gates and Stanley Johnstone and the other guy I can never remember the name of.
Hatuey, we had plenty of discussions regarding risk v reward, it was firmly rooted in logic.
The information was there, right from the off, that the risk/reward ratio was different for different demographics.
There was no concealment or mystery surrounding this information, it was no secret that there was a law of diminishing returns at play. There was plenty of information to make an informed choice regarding whether or not an individual should get the jab or not.
People, en masse, stopped thinking and became vessels that parroted the government narrative, the Borg hive mind alive and well.
Read, without immediate charge.
Breastplate,
Heated discussions at that, the ones that were reading up on it and thinking for themselves were name called and verbally abused something akin to cancel culture wokeism,
I went through heartbreak and mourning while being derided for loosing family members, a hard time for anyone with human empathy for their family and friends.
Funnily enough most of those people whom did that, are the same ones that still name call and deride people on here in the grassroots independence for Scotland movement, and some are the same ones talking up war.
It says a lot more about who they are as people.
than we ever need to take seriously on board ever again as their words that go before them have very little to do with empathy for their fellow humans.
James Che,
Yes, I’ve noticed that and I’m sure others have too.
Breastplate and Ian, you are both talking very generally about a multifaceted subject that could only be discussed meaningfully with details on specifics. I’m happy to discuss those specifics if you are, but I suspect others would find it very boring.
Another big factor that needs to be taken into account is the various phases involved. You can’t generalise about covid, for example; the different variants were very different in terms of how they impacted.
The chronology and sequencing is important to other aspects of the subject too. It was, for example, quite speculative, and irrational I’d say, to suggest the vaccines were dangerous in the early stages of vaccination campaigns when there simply was no supporting evidence.
On then other side of the debate, we had some data that suggested they were safe and effective — even if it turned out to be dishonest — and about 99% of doctors and health experts (people we thought we could trust) were telling us they were safe and effective too.
As for terms like anti-vaxxers, I never understood why that would annoy anyone. I’m happy to declare myself an anti-vaxxer. It’s just a word or descriptive term and if it serves a purpose in language, debate, and discourse then it’s useful.
I agree that this is far from over. Excess deaths in most of first world, where vaccine uptake was high, require explanation.
Hatuey manages to swing from one side of an argument to the other while throwing those already on that side under a bus.
Equating everyone who once disagreed with you to those peddling “5G conspiracies” is lazy in the first instance and suggests you really don’t believe your own ‘new words’, because I certainly don’t.
I’m old enough to remember getting a letter from the then Prime Minister which began with ‘I’m going to have to level with you’…
…meaning he hadn’t been truthful to that point. [when was he ever about anything?]
And that was months before the medicines were released for emergency use only. I ignored my invitation and the follow-up ‘reminder that I could change my mind’ – I’ve heard no more on the subject, as that would constitute harassment.
In conclusion, Hatuey can fuck right off in their attempt to curry favour with those othered so freely and savagely.
Robert Hughes, I have no problem admitting when I’m wrong. Certainly when the whole government, health managers, and health regulators tell me something that turns out to be a pile of crap, I have no problem admitting that I fell for it.
The most damaging and disturbing aspect of this whole grizzly story concerns the extent to which people in public health, including regulatory bodies (FFS!), have been totally and completely revealed as a bunch of corrupt bastards, firmly in the pockets of pharmaceutical companies.
So yes, I was wrong about a lot of things. If that makes me right now, what sort of world are we living in and what does it make them?
I’m going to have to level with you, Scott, I don’t really care what you think. And I’m not currying anything.
I think you misunderstood the PM’s letter. I didn’t get a letter.
Anyway, who cares…
Hatuey says:
3 October, 2022 at 5:47 pm
I think you misunderstood the PM’s letter. I didn’t get a letter.
Anyway, who cares…
—
If I had misunderstood it, I wouldn’t have referred to it…I’d have used another example from the science of ‘conflicting messages from those in power’.
Care harder next time.
@Hatuey: there was plenty of concern about the “vaccine” being expressed by the likes of Swiss Propaganda Research (now Swiss Policy Research) and many other non-MSM sources right from the start. And right from the start, any scientist or doctor who expressed doubts was censored in short time, like Prof.Sucharit Bhakdi, former WHO adviser.
That didn’t stop you, and others on here, from jumping in and adopting a Fuck Off And Die posture against anyone who wouldn’t take the jab because they couldn’t believe a “vaccine” rushed out in six months could possibly be safe when real vaccines take 8-10 years to be passed. The slippery explanation was that so much money was pumped into Covid vaccine research that tests done in series could now be done at the same time but time is one of the most important factors in determining the safety of a true vaccine, since a decade or so is normally necessary for problems to manifest themselves.
I’m approaching 70 and have never refused a vaccine, but the gene therapy stuff Big Pharma was punting in late 2020, no thanks.
As regards the links Ian B provided, there’s nothing so ironical as Jewish people like Currie and Rantzen (and the Great Liberal Chomsky) abusing and then herding folk who were critical of or resistant to the “vaccine” into a societal ghetto of disapproval and marginalisation.
@Hatuey –
This will be boring other readers so I’ll make it my last comment on the topic for now…
The whole thing stank to high heaven from the beginning because there was no way those ‘vaccines’ could be guaranteed as ‘safe and effective’ – the usual testing processes had been flouted. As one small example – no pregnant woman should ever have been reassured that there was no risk because no-one was in a position to confirm that.
The entire medical profession has come into disrepute. The two basics of medical care are ‘Do No Harm’ and ‘Informed Consent’. Both were trashed.
If us so-called ‘anti-vaxxers’ did nothing more than repeat those basics and point out that they were being ignored, that should be enough to clear us of the ‘moonhowling’ ‘dog eating its own vomit’ ‘covidiot’ slurs, and it wasn’t only Ellis issuing the insults.
@James Che –
I’m so sorry I didn’t include you in my wee ‘list’, it was done very quickly but I certainly should’ve included you as one of the most consistent critics of the whole sorry episode.
Seeing as how we are now revisiting “the Covid years”, perhaps our own resident over-achiever, Hatuey, may wish to offer a mumbled apology for posting that as far as he was concerned, the unvaxxed should fuck off and die.
I’ll hold my breath …
Haha, just my wee joke.
Thanks Tinto, for confirming that many on that side of the debate were expressing concerns “right from the start” when they had no data with which to support their arguments. The Swiss Propaganda Research group isn’t my first port of call when I want reliable health-related data.
I’ll not pretend that I don’t know the difference between someone arguing that the vaccines were dangerous and someone arguing that they didn’t know one way or another (because they hadn’t been properly tested) if they were dangerous or not, but in my recollection most on here were arguing the former.
As for Chomsky and others who you feel let you down, okay, by all means go around feeling aggrieved about that. I think you’re missing the bigger and more important picture though.
God knows there should be enough social scientists in here to explain the central importance of health data, the opinions of health practitioners, health studies, etc., to our understanding of issues like poverty in the world, and if we can’t trust those sources then we are well and truly fucked.
Side (Travis):
“…We all live under the same sky
We all will live, we all will die
There is no wrong, there is no right
The circle only has one side…”:
https://tinyurl.com/ybvd3spb
@Hatuey: “The Swiss Propaganda Research group isn’t my first port of call when I want reliable health-related data.” I’m wondering where you went for your data when you adopted your FOAD approach. Explain to me how a “vaccine” rushed out in six months can possibly be safe.
“I’ll not pretend that I don’t know the difference between someone arguing that the vaccines were dangerous and someone arguing that they didn’t know one way or another (because they hadn’t been properly tested) if they were dangerous or not, but in my recollection most on here were arguing the former.” So why did you adopt such an aggressive posture to those who thought their bodily integrity was more important than the claims of Big Pharma?
As for the rest of your self-serving backtracking, if there was so much doubt about the data as you belatedly accept, maybe you shouldn’t have been so quick and so keen to stigmatise those who were sceptical of an MSM narrative which always serves the interests of plutocrats and globalists?
Hardly any time since Hatuey was posting on here about how he distrusted conventional science and theory so much that he had got rid of most of his books.
Now he is invoking the knowledge and learning of science to bolster his case.
Presumably he must be working from memory, then.
Tinto, you aren’t even trying here; I already explained where I went to for health-related data. I went to sources that everybody always went to for information and data on health matters, sources that academics, researchers, politicians, governments, sociologists, the UN, and charities amongst others have relied on for decades. Shoot me.
Everything else you say is just tedious shit-stirring. I reserve the right to respond as I see fit to cranks who, without exhibiting an ounce of understanding, purport not only to grasp complex issues when they clearly don’t, but, on the basis of some superstitious feeling, make pronouncements on public health. They weren’t exactly nice about it either.
The data on vaccine side effects, as an example, wasn’t really available until something like March of this year, as I see it. If you have a credible source that predates this year — not counting the Swiss Propaganda Research group — I’d be interested to see it. You don’t though.
Incidentally, if you want to argue about vaccine efficacy and side effects, which you seem to, why pick on a convert like me? Your fight is still out there. As I understand it, YouTube, for example, still bans YouTubers from saying anything that questions efficacy or safety. The whole MSM is on that very same page and I’d guess most (a majority) of ordinary people are still there to be won over too.
For the record, btw, it’s worth pointing out that the vaccines do actually seem to work, albeit for a very short-lived period. The data on that is pretty clear.
Breastplate says:
3 October, 2022 at 4:50 pm
People, en masse, stopped thinking and became vessels that parroted the government narrative, the Borg hive mind alive and well.
======================================================================
You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile.
@Hatuey says:3 October, 2022 at 9:09 pm
“I reserve the right to respond as I see fit to cranks who, without exhibiting an ounce of understanding, purport not only to grasp complex issues when they clearly don’t, but, on the basis of some superstitious feeling, make pronouncements [on public health.]”
@ Hatuey says:1 October, 2022 at 7:04 pm
“the immediate environmental consequences of the US blowing up the pipeline are undoubtedly very serious. It was an idiotic decision that will come back to haunt them”
For the alert readers, a shaft of illumination pierces the murk.
Cranks making pronouncements on the basis of superstitious feelings are fine on all subjects other than public health.
SUPERSTITION | meaning | a belief that is not based on reason or scientific thinking
@Hatuey: so any response is tedious shit-stirring? Fine.
“I went to sources that everybody always went to for information and data on health matters, sources that academics, researchers, politicians, governments, sociologists, the UN, and charities amongst others have relied on for decades. Shoot me.”
Yes, to The Usual Suspects who were part of the narrative.
“Shoot me”: I have no desire to do so but perhaps you could have had a few reservations before adopting your Fuck Off And Die approach to those who had reservations on conflicting and uncertain data. Seems to me you listened uncritically to all those invested in the Covid situation and artfully ignored all other opinions and data, right up to the Yellow Card data of adverse reactions and the same recording process (VAERS) in the USA.
A convert like you? I doubt it. You’re wanting to have it both ways now , as Scott perceptively observed above .
“Incidentally, if you want to argue about vaccine efficacy and side effects, which you seem to, why pick on a convert like me? Your fight is still out there.”
Shouldn’t that be “our fight”, Hatuey, if you’re such a “convert”? The fact that YouTube and MSM censors alternative views is hardly an endorsement of the strength of their position.
@ Hatuey: forgot to say, I’m off to bed now so I’ll let you deploy a zinger of a last word on the topic.
Night, night!
Repubicofscotland 2:44pm.
Thanks! Yes I remember SNP was pro Palestine. It seems, like Corbyn, accepting (or being forced to accept) this IHRA code of conduct bullshit, is carte blanche to troll through & investigate any criticism of Israeli atrocities & have the police shut it down & political party elected MPs etc are subjected to something akin to the Spanish Inquisition! Sacked or deselected for anti-Semitism. Something the SNP have done with Grouse, Denise, Neale, ect.
Call me thick but I did wonder at the rash of flags hand in hand with rangers supporters. I thought that was just them picking the opposite of Celtic, d’oh!
Turns out it’s far more sinister & Scotland now seems to be fking Israeli & the thought police are on the prowl looking for offence!
Jesus H!
Tinto Chiel
I’ve enjoyed your dialogue with Hatuey (and not just because you have been ripping him a well-deserved new one).
Why don’t you post more often?
@ Geri says:3 October, 2022 at 10:01 pm
“Scotland now seems to be fking Israeli”
Beats me how Scotland can seem Israeli to anybody. It doesn’t seem Israeli to me.
I thought that when Republic dropped in his reference to Mossad (not for the first time), that Republic was just doing what Republic seems to feel he has to do. Every day, in every way, a new conspiracy is hatched agin us.
I didn’t expect anybody to take him seriously.
@ Geri
Aye, here’s jist a wee reminder of certain SNP politicians’ past positions on Israel, and who also somehow escaped being booted oot the Party.
https://wingsoverscotland.com/two-woke-princes/
Plus bonus quiz time question with…
Which prominent She / Her said this in 2014? :
“Today’s Telegraph names the 132 Palestinian children killed by Israeli forces since 7 July. This has to stop.”
https://twitter.com/nicolasturgeon/status/491835581912326145
Also 2:44pm
Re Police Scotland.
I looked into this before, when Mayhem threatened SNP with them during a PMQs regards safe consumption rooms.
How dare she threaten to use our police against us –
When I looked it seemed to me to be answerable to the home secretary.
Then it popped up again via the recent world crisis & borders & Sturgeon passed it over to Police Scotland who hotly rebuked he’d do no such thing on her say so.
FFS.
Dan 10:21pm.
Aye, I mentioned Neale & Denise, maybe it was on the tolerance discussion.
Aye, she’s definitely been hushed up & seems to enjoy a soft media now & indyref is shelved, never to be spoken of.
Sorry y’all if this is old news. I remember the Neale & Denise kerfuffle but took ill shortly after GE & stopped following politics for a while other than Salmond farce. Which brings me back to The Labour Files – ppl on jumped up charges & no evidence forthcoming.
This is scary shit.
John Main 10:19pm
No conspiracy. It’s happening in real time. On record. To accept the IRHA is to accept that an criticism of the State of Israel is to be shut down. Police Scotland is already doing it NOW. Political parties do as they’re told or they are subjected to jumped up invented charges.
They’ve also made it clear indyref is not compatible *with the Scottish Jewish community* because the break up of the UK means it loses the protection racket of the security council which it undoubtedly has to be a fking tyrant & continually break international laws.
So why does the state of Israel get to dictate to our elected politicians? On both sides of the border?
Tinto Chiel: “perhaps you could have had a few reservations before adopting your Fuck Off And Die approach to those who had reservations”
It is a fact that have never said anything like that.
As for the rest, what is your point exactly? That I believed sources that we have all trusted throughout our lives, that I trusted medical professionals and doctors, that I trusted the people that help deliver babies and patch you up after road accidents, I trusted those that manage public health programs like vaccination campaigns (campaigns that nobody disputes helped combat serious diseases like smallpox), I trusted people who save thousand of lives every day with their expertise and commitment?
And you’re saying I was stupid to trust them or that I was morally wrong to trust them?
You aren’t smart enough for this conversation.
lol @ “The Usual Suspects who were part of the narrative”
Who do you go to and trust when you have a pressing health problem? The Swiss Propaganda Research group?
(For those of you that are too thick to grasp what just happened, I ended a very tedious argument with the debating equivalent of a hypersonic rocket that nothing else in this world can get close to.)
Dan, thanks for the old Wings link.
I just googled & it seems Sturgeon suggests because the Scottish government has signed up then so has all the members of government.
Here they are bleating she needs to pressurise the Greens.
FFS!
https://www.gov.scot/publications/foi-18-01537/
Oops! Sorry, wrong link.
https://www.thejc.com/news/community/scottish-jews-seek-reassurance-from-sturgeon-over-ihra-6bcg6D49tNAJiQPNRBF8gI?reloadTime=1664836801350
oh my …
https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/9548824/scots-home-graffiti-probe/
the sun swerves the political-national-economic-imperialism-col0nising-angle most skilfully.
There is going to be a lot more of this, and worse; in my neck of the woods newly built houses often go up in flames – this tells you you bought your “security” from the wrong gangsters, this is not political, as yet; but the hew homes where I live are unaffordable for young families and are only being built to launder drugs money, a narco state, a dirty little secret no one wants to acknowledge.
Read Scottish Field -politically- and ask why we can’t have nice things.
The Daily Mail has become in part “The Highland Property Gazette”.
Scots get empoverished by their own resources, and robbed multiple times; the basic wealth, high housing costs, then bought out by the unearned wealth of those living in the area where trickle down works, the golden triangle, juiced with our money, property bubbles and then the cashing out.
I could accept a majority of SNP MPs at the next election triggers a referendum but not a majority of votes.
If there is a majority of votes it is straight to indy.
Nicola giving away majority of seats and votes is a complete con
The entire medical profession has come into disrepute. The two basics of medical care are ‘Do No Harm’ and ‘Informed Consent’. Both were trashed.
You have it in a nutshell.
An ineffective, non sterilising vaccine creates nothing more than an incubation population.
The fact that it that it has been introduced and profited from by discarding those two principles, illustrates the values our fellow tra(itor)vellers have.
I would also add that the ‘grown ups’ have no plan, let alone ambition, four our nation.
In Scotland, Brexit was illegal. Why? Because it ignored, undermined and contradicted the Scottish Constitution, in particular the principle of the people’s sovereignty, clearly expressed as opposing Brexit.
Since the Scottish Constitution is a clearly acknowledged and irrefutable component of the British Constitution, the EU had no legal right or power to allow that Scottish component to be ignored, undermined or contradicted by the British Government.
England and even (unfortunately) Wales, both of which voted for Brexit, could indeed leave the EU, according to the British Constitution. But these two had no constitutional right to force Brexit on Scotland, and take Scotland with them, thereby acting against the clearly expressed will of the Sovereign Scottish people. The EU should have known this.
And the Scottish Government, even though Holyrood is a devolved entity (and not yet the fully-fledged Scottish Parliament of many centuries standing prior to 1707), should have reminded the EU of these constitutional facts not just privately, but very publicly. When it failed to do so, the party in power (the SNP) was illegally overriding the sovereign people, and acting in its own party political interests when it should have acted on behalf of the Scottish people, and in accordance with their stated will. Their meekly allowing the English part of the British Constitution to overrule the Scottish part of the British Constitution, and override the will of the Scottish people, was a massive dereliction of duty, a serious abuse of the power entrusted to them by the people, and fundamentally invalid.
Indeed, both this culpable inaction on the part of the Scottish government and the extremely serious consequences following on from that inaction – namely, that the Scottish nation was withdrawn from the European Union against its will, and Scotland’s people had their rights as European Citizens forcibly removed from them – have no legal foundation or force. By this neglect of its duty, in such a serious matter, the so-called Scottish Government – in legal terms – undermined and may have lost altogether its right to rule. If it can only rule in accordance with the Scottish Constitution, it cannot legally or legitimately rule in contradiction to that same Constitution. In order to rule with an authority derived from the consent of the people of Scotland, it must respect, follow and adhere to the sovereign will of that same Scottish people which was – and still is, only more than ever – that Scotland remain in the EU.
No one is denying the constitutional right of England, and indeed Wales, to secede from the EU. But England and Wales should have realised that when they did so, they were in fact breaking up their Union with Scotland. They did it and now, constitutionally, as a consequence of having done it, the Union that formed the United Kingdom as a political entity has been breached, abandoned and brought to an end by that very action.
Scotland did not leave the European Union: England and – regrettably – Wales did. The European Union should be made aware of this. They have been hoodwinked into believing that the specifically English part of the British Constitution – including the supremacy of the Westminster Parliament (more correctly of the Crown in that parliament) over the English people – is the whole of the British Constitution, and not just an incomplete part of it. The EU has also been hoodwinked into thinking that the Scottish part of the British Constitution does not exist, and has no force. The very good thing about Charles III’s accession to the throne is that we saw the Constitution of the United Kingdom in action, thereby demonstrably showing that there are no grounds at all for misconceiving the British Constitution in that way. When he took his oath in Scotland he very clearly acknowledged the claim of right of the Scottish people and, hence, the ultimate sovereignty of the Scottish people in Scotland.
The footage is there for all and sundry to see: it is about time that the Scottish people drew the attention of the European Union to these very clear facts. When the British Government pretended that it alone spoke for the Scottish people, and could thereby take the Scottish people out of the European Union by its diktat, it was stating a downright lie which has no basis whatsoever in law. In other words, it was fraudulent, and has no legal force. The Scottish people are in fact still European citizens and Scotland as a nation – even as a nation still currently within the UK – is still part of the European Union.
When the so-called Scottish Government fails not only to bring these matters to the attention of the European Union, but further fails to hammer them home, it too is committing yet another (and in some ways worse) fraud. For it too is thereby ignoring, undermining and contradicting the Scottish Constitution, even though it is bound by it, and should be the first to uphold it. By its failure to act in accordance with the Scottish constitution, and by its acquiescence in the pretence that the English part of the British Constitution is the whole of the British Constitution, and its further acquiescence in the downright lie that the Scottish part of the British Constitution counts for nothing – a point of view that was totally and demonstrably contradicted by Charles III himself – by all these various forms of cowardly acquiescence, the so-called ‘Scottish Government’ is pretending that its power is over the Scottish people, which is untrue and completely illegal, because unconstitutional in Scotland. In fact, the power and authority of any Scottish Government is always derived from, and subject to, the sovereign will of the Scottish people.
In regard to membership of the EU, that sovereign will of the Scottish people was clearly expressed in the referendum, and neither the Westminster nor Holyrood nor indeed King Charles III can legally undermine, ignore or overturn it.
The EU is obliged to negotiate with any member state in accordance with, and not contrary to, the requirements of that state’s constitution. When it reached the settlement or agreement that it made with the government of Boris Johnson it failed to do that. It ignored and overrode an essential component part – that is, the Scottish part – of the UK’s Constitution. The EU is not legally entitled or empowered to do that, just as Westminster is not empowered or entitled to do that. Thus the (in fact, forced) ejection of Scotland and the Scottish people from the EU has no foundation in law. Both these entities – both the EU and the Westminster Parliament (and even, it has to be said, with all due respect, the Queen) – were acting beyond their powers when they presumed that their agreement of terms of exiting the EU meant that the Scots and Scotland were no longer members.
What they did to us in that respect – forcibly removing us against our stated will – has no force of law behind it. The agreements they made are not valid in Scotland. We are still, in reality, members of the EU. That is the legal situation, whether the British Government likes it or not and, indeed, whether the Scottish Government likes it or not, and, moreover, whether the EU likes it or not.
Why don’t we, the people, petition the EU to this effect? Our so-called ‘Scottish Government’ won’t do it, and neither will its so-called leader(s) – and the likes of Dorothy Bain certainly won’t do it – so it is up to us. We have to pose the question to the EU: Why did you allow us, Scotland and the Scots, to be taken out of the EU against our will, when that action was a breach of the British (UK) constitution? And if the people in the EU did not know that such an action was against the British (UK) Constitution, in order to convince them that such was truly the case, all that is needed is to show them the commitment which Charles III made to the Scottish Constitution as a condition for him acceding to the throne and becoming head of state. The footage is there – this IS the British Constitution – so, use it!
I know that is likely to stick in the craw of Republicans on this site. But it shouldn’t. Scotland is not a Republic yet; it is still a monarchy. The EU was and remains obliged to act in accordance with the constitution of its member state – any member state – as that constitution is at the time, not as it might or will be in the future. At the time of the Brexit agreement, and even now, the Scottish part of the Constitution was as valid and as monarchical as it is now. And this was clearly shown by the oath Charles had to take to become head of state (and it was interesting that he took it in Scotland, thereby emphasising it all the more). All this is in our favour. We have to be pragmatic enough, and sensible enough, to use it, and use it well. Whether Scotland will remain a monarchy or become a Republic is not in any case a question for now; it is the sort of thing that can only be settled after independence, not before it.
At the moment we have to play with the cards we have got, especially when they favour our cause. The monarchy does not necessarily have to be totally opposed to Scottish independence. It does have to respect the Scottish Constitution. When Alex Salmond was in power, he was always confident that it would. I see no reason to doubt that, even now. The official policy of his SNP, even at the time of the 2014 referendum, was to retain the monarchy. Even those of us who preferred a Republic even then did not raise objections to that: the republican issue could come later. It wasn’t the time for it. Not yet. In my view it still isn’t – be a bit subtle, have a little patience: that sort of thing can come later, if necessary. There is a time for everything/ It only does damage to try to force something too early, when its time – the time to have a rational and reasonable and good-natured, respectful-all-round debate about it – is not yet ripe.
PS I said nothing about Northern Ireland because my focus is Scotland, and I really don’t know how to describe NI’s constitutional position within the UK. Personally, I find it laughable to call it a ‘nation’. The term ‘Province’ sounds more convincing, yet… What is it really? Some might say that the most appropriate term is a ‘carve-up’! Although there might be some historical truth in that, the term might be too tendentious to be useful. The point is that Scotland is certainly a nation. And Wales can certainly be considered the same, while bearing in mind that Scotland’s position within the current UK Union is substantially different from that of Wales. When I mentioned Wales above, I based what I said on the fact that Wales voted to leave the EU. In that regard too, the position of Wales too is different from that of Scotland, though it may be that that is changing now if support for EU membership is rising there, as it is in Scotland. I hope very much that that is the case. The prospect of Scotland, Wales and eventually the whole of Ireland (including the North) all being in the EU remains an appealing prospect, at least to me, though I know that some here will disagree.
Wull, great post & agree with you.
The Act of Union is between Scotland & England only so you’d be right that England had no authority to remove us against our will in a parliament specifically weighted to one side. It should’ve been challenged more forcibly at the time but it seems we have a fake leader who goes about everything half arsed. Either deliberately or by the WM appointed civil servant plants advising her untruths.
Scotland could really do with a team of permanent international, independent lawyers on its payroll. Like the GFA had that’s rock solid & apparently Tory resistant.
I think the only way out of it is to reconvene our real Scottish parliament & let the English administration office at Holyrood close its doors. It’s just a talking shop with with constant angst to thwart anything & everything regarding our betterment on constant daily basis.
It’s soul destroying..
@Wull 2:23 am
“We are still, in reality, members of the EU. That is the legal situation, whether the British Government likes it or not and, indeed, whether the Scottish Government likes it or not, and, moreover, whether the EU likes it or not.”
I like it Wull.
You set yourself up in opposition to the SNP, ScotGov, WM and now the very EU itself. You simultaneously yearn to be accepted by your beloved EU, whilst telling them they will have us anyways, like it or lump it.
That certainly takes EUrophilia to a whole new level – respect.
Here’s a wee thought for all the posters on here who see a conspiracy every where they look.
Have you ever wondered if maybes the EU don’t want us? Why believe they acted in ignorance or supine indifference to “Scotland’s plight” when it could be they were glad to be shot of us? Occam’s razor and that.
Anyways, Wull, I am sorry you see Scotland as being too wee and too poor to ever have any hope of an independent existence within the ranks of the free, independent, sovereign nations of the world. I am sorry you have fallen for the liars who told you that wee countries just can’t go it alone. I am sorry you never developed the independence even of your own thought processes, so that you could see that “independence in Europe” is no independence at all.
Geri
The UK negotiated favourable deals with the EU in return for its membership.
Scotland could not have stayed in the EU under these same terms and conditions.
Maybes Scotland would have been allowed to negotiate favourable deals too, maybes not. If not, maybes the Scottish support for EU membership you like to write about would have tanked.
As for polls showing EU membership support in Scotland is growing, I continue to be surprised at that, considering no Scot knows on what terms and conditions Scotland would be accepted. My guess is that if Scotland ever independently seeks to join the EU, it will take the grownups years to thrash out the deal.
Still, maybes they will be stampeded into a disadvantageous deal in order to support the “faith based” belief of Scots who have already given up on an Independent Scotland before it has happened.
“Freedom!”
Don’t make me laugh.
@Confused says:4 October, 2022 at 12:08 am
“THIS LAND BELONGS TO THE PEOPLE OF KINLOSS”
Hmmm, I wonder who these people are.
Maybes some of the people of Kinloss are looking forwards to moving into their new hoose, the fruits of a lifetime of hard work, thrift, and aspiration.
And now some lowlife has sprayed it with paint.
Maybes naw.
I guess we will never know. We can always adopt a “faith based” attitude and say the English incomers, or the ("Tractor" - Ed)ous “house Jocks”, had it coming.
John Main
You come on here like a school teacher, correcting everybody’s homework.
Fuck off, ya fuckin Wanker!!!
Hatuey says:
3 October, 2022 at 11:38 pm
As for the rest, what is your point exactly? That I believed sources that we have all trusted throughout our lives, that I trusted medical professionals and doctors, that I trusted the people that help deliver babies and patch you up after road accidents, I trusted those that manage public health programs like vaccination campaigns (campaigns that nobody disputes helped combat serious diseases like smallpox), I trusted people who save thousand of lives every day with their expertise and commitment?
And you’re saying I was stupid to trust them or that I was morally wrong to trust them?
That is a very good question.
Maybe one for John “it’s all about the money” Main to critique Robin’s economic assessment of where we are and where we could be.
http://robinmcalpine.org/independence-the-most-crucial-moment-since-oil/
Funny thing
The BBC seems not to be showing Truss saying she will not allow an Indyref2
I wonder why
Will also tack on this link relating to economics / currency for wider exposure.
https://yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com/2022/10/04/political-betrayal-or-patriotic-cause/
Dan @10.21pm.
Many young Israeli men/women are now turning their backs on serving in the IDF, they are ashamed of the oppression of the Palestinian people.
https://www.mintpressnews.com/israel-military-terrified-of-conscientious-objectors/282062/
I do have some serious doubts about the medical profession particularly with regard to the trans issue.
Their cure for ‘gender dysphoria’ seems barbaric.
Is it the case that some committee somewhere decided that ‘gender dysphoria’ wasn’t a mental health issue and that ‘transwomen are women’ and everyone in the medical profession has to go along with that ruling?
Perhaps it’s the same thing with the Covid vaccine or all other drugs.
I don’t know how this all works I’m guessing there is a ruling body (perhaps advised/influenced by Stonewall & the drugs companies) that decide for example that ‘transwomen are women’ this drug or this vaccine works and and the ‘medical profession’ have no choice but to go along with what they are told.
I would say you can trust the medical profession to deliver your baby, fix your broken arm make a diagnosis but I would question whether or not you can do without any drugs that they prescribe.
Some problems could be sorted out with diet & exercise or a visit to the physiotherapist for example.
All drugs have contra indications?
Shug says:
4 October, 2022 at 8:58 am
Funny thing
The BBC seems not to be showing Truss saying she will not allow an Indyref2
I wonder why
Maybe because she claimed that the Tories said in 2014 that it would be a once in a generation event.
From Wings Facebook.
Says it all really.
https://scontent.fman1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/310311685_5623055864415380_7340575074482584058_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=bcMqZlHh-lAAX_9afCM&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-1.fna&oh=00_AT_NY3pw752ROgzt3Grhoh8nQMbvyzgzwiCEsJU1y6joXQ&oe=63400CC1
https://twitter.com/i/status/1576970611297234944
‘I am very clear in 2014 when there was a referendum we said it was once in a generation I am very clear there shouldn’t be another referendum until that generation is up’
She is very clearly a liar.
Ruby @9.32am.
So, Sturgeon’s mock indyref that leads nowhere will be blocked by Truss if the UKSC gives it the go ahead, Sturgeon and Truss really don’t want Scotland to dissolve this rancid union.
Maybe this has something to do with it.
“A Treasury official said, “the prospects for the UK without Scotland look bleak. The Scots really have got us over a barrel. An independent Scotland can go it alone. But the prospects for a separate English, Welsh and Ulster economy on the same assumption must look pretty grim. Perhaps we should all start to think the unthinkable”.
https://caltonjock.com/2021/12/14/a-treasury-official-said-the-prospects-for-the-uk-without-scotland-look-bleak-the-scots-really-have-got-us-over-a-barrel-an-independent-scotland-can-go-it-alone-but-the-prospects-for-a-separate/
Meanwhile Sturgeon knows where her loyalties lie.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FeLU5qOXoAgmbM3?format=jpg&name=4096×4096
https://twitter.com/CrossgateCentre/status/1577056936956428288?cxt=HHwWgIDU3ba76uIrAAAA
Republicofscotland
Why is the BBC not promoting the statement by truss
Republic of Scotland 9.27am
That picture of Sturgeon is sick.
And she greeted David Cameron the same way on the steps of Bute House.
It really leaves you speechless.
No wonder we have gone the last eight years with the Indy movement as flat as a pancake.
I really, honestly, detest that little unionist bastard Sturgeon with a passion.
@ Ruby
Well I think we need a Harry Hill stylée “FIGHT!” between a couple of prominent Conservatives to sort out what constitutes a mandate.
Scouser Paddy the Baddy is an entertaining lad for sure, but a pay per view Celebrity Deathmatch between Truss and Davidson would no doubt pull in the viewers.
“You don’t get a referendum for free, you have to earn it. So if the Greens and the SNP – and the SSP or any of the other parties who’ve declared an interest in independence – get over the line and can make a coalition, make a majority, get the votes in the Parliament, then they’ll vote through a referendum, and that’s what democracy’s all about… it’s perfectly simple”
https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-simple-ruth/
Plus, there was also that material change of circumstances event mandate…
Rab Davis says:
4 October, 2022 at 10:17 am
That picture of Sturgeon is sick.
Aye, no half, and x 3.
The liar, the witch and the “Scotch” wardrobe. Boak! Boak! Boak!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGOojLGT4wU
Posted without comment.
@Rab Davis (10.50) –
Have just seen a tweet which appears to be imploring SNP members to attend Sturgeon’s closing address to conference next Monday (3.15-4.00pm).
Can anyone else confirm this?
If true, what’s the betting that her speech will be called off for ‘security reasons’ or suchlike? The optics of vacant seats would be bad enough but the prospect of any malcontents actually raising their voices is just too risky. And after her calamitous appearance in Dunfermline yesterday, who would bet against someone just standing up and saying ‘Okay hen, it’s time for you to go.’?
” Have just seen a tweet which appears to be imploring SNP members to attend Sturgeon’s closing address to conference next Monday ”
They’ll pay people to attend Stoogeon’s closing address if necessary : probably dub-in ” canned ” applause and wild cheering while they’re at it .
IF the boos that greeted her arrival at the head-bowing , arse-kissing , cringe-inducing GSTK ceremony yesterday came for Pro-Indy supporters – and not yr standard Yoonsters – it would indicate the tide is turning – definitively – against the Fraud
We can but hope this is the case
John Main 7:10am
Re EU.
Scotland could have & should have remained in the EU like NI was allowed to – on thier terms they’d present to the EU themselves – mainly a SM & CU access. There was zero reason we were dragged out other than self appointed dominance. We’re in a voluntary Union with England or we’re not. Having thier parliament steam on ahead, knowing fine well its weighted in thier favour, was an outrage when proposals for our Nation remaining on at least the basic of terms, weren’t even considered.
As it stands, I’m not a fan of full membership, I think the last thing we need is leaving one bastard Union to jump straight into another, but that’s for Independence. Full membership wasn’t being proposed. 62%, all 32 authorities, wanted to remain. That should have been respected.
I’m sick & tired of everyone gets thier own way, except you Scotland, you’ll do as your fucking told, attitude. Or whiney folk trying to make excuses of why we’ve always to be treated different to everyone els, just because. We didn’t get to remain because the stuff they’re bartering with is ours.The powers they needed were ours. When no consent was given that should also have been respected.
So Scotland is Out the EU & powers stripped because of a tyrant neighbour conveniently forgetting they’re just one part of the Union & the attitude is we’ve to like it.
& The thing about the EU is they have the exact same terms as every other member state does. Cameron & co only had tantrums because the EU already had enough of giving them concessions. Their *we’re a founding member so we demand exemptions* ticket had well & truly been maxed out as well as Thier arrogant behaviour in thier parliament. I suspect the EU are glad to see the back of them. Good riddance! Now that they’ve feck all say there anymore & the EU policy of not getting embroiled in a member states domestics – it’ll maybe be different this time around for indyref2.
But we need to stop hitching our wagons to others from the get-go. It’s independence Yes or No. & We do it ourselves. Better Together does love a pile on of confusing everyone with a 100 ‘what if’s’ to stifle discussion until the person forgets wtf the question was again.
“Mhairi Hunter’s comment tells you that she does not understand international norms. Nor what it means to be sovereign. These 2 basics should see her removed from office”
She got removed from office at the council elections 😀
Wull.
You don’t post often, But when you do it is with some well thought out analyses.
The Scottish constitution being ignored, during the Brexit voting referendum is one of those instances where you realise the treaty of union was deliberately breached by a decision made in Westminster,
That the EU willing knew this says a lot about the EU as well, for it was aware which part of Britain the laws were being returned to while in its negotiations with Westminster on exiting the EU,
The problem of a international treaty being breached so often and obvious since 1707 tells us that the Treaty has been colonised by westminster with the knowledge of the EU and the UN,
Even the conception of the 1707 treaty of the union, if the UN had looked into its history should have rang alarm bells for the UN as being a treaty enforced upon Scots under duress, threat and bribery.
The conception of a english legislated devolved government into Scotland breaches the treaty of union under Scots law, as the Crown sitting in westminster is transferred as sovereign crown into the devolved government,
The english laws of treason that altered Scots law on treason in 1708 also breached the treaty of union after the treaty had supposedly been ln place barely one year.
But the first breach that actual ENDED the treaty of union before it had begun was when the English parliament transference of the English parliament directly into the new so called British parliament without ending the English parliament session until 1708.
With out any election taken place for entry of new english members to the British parliament.
Meanwhile the english parliament sitting in Westminster continuiously, requested that the Scottish parliament should cease to exist in Scotland.
Therefore no members of the old Scottish parliament could lawfully enter into the treaty of union and later the British parliament as representatives of the old Scottish parliament,
The Scottish parliament having been Cancelled by the English parliament and monarchy as a pre- condition to the treaty of the union into the created British parliament before its actual conception leaves the political union between the English and Scottish parliaments in lawful question.
It would appear the reason that Westminster, the EU, the UN ignore the mythical treaty of political union between Scotland and England as little more than MYTHICAL and therefore the Scottish constitution as a long term piece of trickery played on Scots.
Shug 10:15am
Re Truss/ BBC
Because it’s a lie. The lawyer who drew up the paperwork for Indyref Edinburgh Agreement has said that was never mentioned anywhere. He’d know, it was his work. ‘Its just a slogan’ with no legal basis.
Wull.
Probably before most I questioned the crowns authority in Scotland and Scots law along with retaining Sovereignty of Scots due to my hobby of metal detecting,
I reasoned that if the Scots were sovereign above monarchy in Scotland and the Scots “Claim of right” was wrote into the treaty of the union,
Why did the monarchy have all claim over any treasure trove found in Scotland by Scots?
Ethnic cleansing via the property market is another clever British tactic – you can stand back, say “nothing to do with me – it is the INVISIBLE HAND OF THE FREE MARKET”, a bit like “genocide by famine”, another smooth trick – except, except … what we have with property is a highly artificial, rigged and distorted, “market”, for economic policy was enacted to deliberately create an asset bubble in property, in the South East, within that “golden triangle”, so that tory voters would be enriched simply by the act of buying a house.
Hey Scots – get robbed once, get robbed twice, get robbed thrice and then find yourself priced out of your hometown. But don’t get angry about it – that’s racist. Drink the civic nationalism kool aid and be nice to the “new scots”.
When the housebuilders in your area are building “executive villas” for 500K, and the average salary is 20K, then it’s not for the locals.
Property in Scotland is a real rigged, corrupt, broken, market; I mean, the place is almost empty and yet we are all crammed together in small areas in our shoebox houses paying huge mortgages. Well, it’s deliberate, it is manipulated and since Thatcher stopped councils building houses, entirely within the hands of the banks and the housebuilders. Also, the conversion of building societies to banks was another thatcherite wheeze, which did not help.
Local cooncillors are mostly corrupt little shits and since they have veto on development via planning controls (*), it can be very lucrative and very hard to police; most of the corruption operates on a “favour” basis, which is an untraceable currency.
(For decades, Labour ran Lanarkshire as a “mate-ocracy”, a society of pals, doing each other favours; their hatred of the SNP was obvious, and largely driven by what would happen when someone else gets in and can see what was happening … they need not have worried. Meet the new boss …)
The victims in this subtle crime are young couples, and by extension, the nation itself; if you are poor, what can you do to save money? Well, delay having kids, or have less or none at all. Welcome to “demographic time bomb”, death of the nation and slow genocide. Replacement levels 2.1 per women, current levels 1.4, “fucking for Scotland” might be the greatest nationalist slogan of all time, if someone would use it.
(*) – to put numbers on it; agricultural land, no planning permission – YOU CAN’T BUILD ON IT – is I think 5K an acre. Where I live it is “offers over” 300K for 1/4 acre building plot. Permission, no permission – some difference.
Nothing more political than the roof over your head; the tories understood this long ago, and we should follow them.
It’s not Scottish produce its British.
https://twitter.com/Grouse_Beater/status/1576973941158989831?cxt=HHwWjsCi7bfcxOIrAAAA
James Che @1:46 pm
So James, you are a detectors? Well so am I! Have been for over 50 years. I use a Minelab Safari. An overlooked machine. What do you use?
I should have said detectorist
Confused.
The MSM ( which are papers published down south mainly have been advertising property in Scotland for sale for quite a number of years now,
But if you want to really know the mindset of ethnic cleansing of westminster to Scotland people go watch Through a Scottish Prism.
The video at the end says it all, and the laughs from those sitting in Westminster who thought ethnic cleansing of Scots was still a good idea today.
And still the Snp sit there in Westminster and take this Sh.t , pretending the mickey is not directed at them because they are English MPs now, they think the abuse is for the rest of Scotland and they do not seem to mind that scenario,
” Local cooncillors are mostly corrupt little shits and since they have veto on development via planning controls (*), it can be very lucrative and very hard to police; most of the corruption operates on a “favour” basis, which is an untraceable currency. ”
Not – strictly – true C . In my neck of the colony the local community opposed a large * development * of 140 new houses , and , for once , the local cooncil – Highland – listened to local opinion and refused planning permission . Undeterred , the developers – Springfield , simply bypassed HC and went straight to ScotGlove and were granted permission .
Still corruption as Springfield are known to be , ahem ….contributors to the SNP .
Everything is for sale in Scotland .
Land , Councillors ,Politicians , Political Parties , Values , Principals .
It’s the Sale of the Century . The only thing not on offer is Independence . Not because no one wants to buy it , rather , because it’s too valuable to the self-declared owners – Nu SNP
Not valuable as something to be achieved , y’unnerstan : nooooo , valuable as the eternal , holy carrot , to be dangled tantalisingly close , but , just out of reach until yet one more mandate is secured . At which time DA DA DA DA ….Independence will be ……….
Discussed at a later date
Shug @10.15am.
It’s the main propaganda arm of the union, so if it isn’t reporting it as you say, then that should not come as a surprise to anyone in Scotland.
Don’t expect STV to report on it either, ITV now runs STV.
Confused @ 2:03 pm
“Ethnic cleansing via the property market is another clever British tactic”
Astute and sound analysis, Confused. The secret Scottish census results would surely tell us quite a bit more, if its ever released. As you imply, the ““demographic time bomb”, death of the nation and slow genocide” is all an Imperial power need do to ensure the oppressed nation and any hopes of liberation perish. This is most ably helped along by the SNP’s colonial administrators and their “Drink the civic nationalism kool aid and be nice to the “new scots” mantra. And yet some people still wonder why the Yes vote struggles to get above 50% meanwhile ignoring the auld colonial population displacement trick in plain sight.
https://yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com/2021/07/11/determinants-of-independence-demographics/
Robert Hughes,
Confused,
One of the main ways that Scotlands land and property sale could be sorted is by changing to land taxation directly to Scotland rather than through the corrupt Barnett formula.
That would include big corporations, and council buildings, which at the moment are tax exempt being considered public. But this does not stop the Councils selling them off, without the money returning to the public I may add.
The Council departments are intergrated with private companies, hence all is not public property any more with these changes that have taken place behind closed doors,
The line between public and private has become blurred
DJ.
I use a Garret, and have been metal detecting for a while also, was out for a few hours on Sunday,
Found two bits of scrap metal, a elaborate flower design Dandy button with back, a old plumb bob, a turner coin with thistle on reverse, a 1912 george penny, and something that looks a cross between a spoon and a spanner, but smiddy made of forged iron,
Non of it valuable financially, but if you love history and finding out about how and where people lived, villages that have disappeared , and tools of trades that no longer exist, then it is fascinating and invaluable in its own right.
My best find which is a good few years ago, was a bronze age tripod cooking pot with only a little chip On the rim, it now sits in Edinburgh musium.
We have permanent local permission on four different large areas of land, and sometime travel to the beach, which provides plenty of ring pulls and beer cans, but at least we clear up the beach of rubbish.
Rain stopped play on Sunday and has done since,
When were you able to get out last? and did you find any interesting,
Confused says:
4 October, 2022 at 2:03 pm
The victims in this subtle crime are young couples, and by extension, the nation itself…
Local businesses are hit by it too. Councils and quangos don’t want anybody honest to expose their rackets to diligent competition.
The amount of money, resource and networking these agencies have, there should startups thriving in every town, but whether it’s grants, opportunities, work or connections, it’s always the “pals” who thrive, until the corruption is endemic.
Corruption seems to be something the British do very well… Scotland too. People aren’t shocked or angered by it. They want their cut.
Judging by the strong difference in accents with the locals where I live, it is not the locals being selected for positions in the Councils ,
In fact in one instance I could go further,
A relative through marriage whom had been living across the border, put in their submission and quote to our local council,
He got the contract and moved back home to Scotland,
On the first official meeting between council and himself, they voiced their surprise and disappointment at discovering he was Scottish born and bred,
When the contract came up for renewal his company did not get the contract again, but another company based down south did,
Council contracts even for cutting grass are very selective.
Ian Brotherhood 11.38am
Ian,,, it is going to be a very interesting SNP Conference in Aberdeen.
I’ll be watching for the attitude of the members,,,, will any of them actually have the balls to tell her she has no clothes on?
How is her Code of Conduct going to be sold?
Is it for SNP members only,,,or for the wider Yes movement?
How is she going to challenge the UK government if the Supreme Court ruling goes against her.
And while we are at it,,,,why is her keynote speech to the masses the day BEFORE the Supreme Court ruling.
Was this deliberate?
This conference will answer a few questions about the actual mindset the poison Dwarf of Bute House.
Then after the Supreme Court ruling, we have the ALBA Conference in Stirling.
By then the Indy picture should be a lot clearer,,,and hopefully Alex Salmond and his very competent team can give us some hope regards the way forward out of this stinkin Union.
Doing my best to shaft the corporate energy companies and their shareholders. 🙂
“Dear Daniel,
Based on your recent meter readings and the credit in your account, we’re lowering your monthly payment from £16 to £1.”
Dan
While we’re on the subject of rising bills.
OPEC have a meeting tomorrow in Vienna to discuss cutting Oil production by up to one million barrels per day.
Russia now attend OPEC meetings,,and are said to be putting pressure on Saudi Arabia to cut Oil extraction.
This is said to be payback time for Russia against the “West”.
So get ready for an increase at the pumps for your petrol and diesel.
So much for sanctions against Russia.
They seem to be holding all the cards.
One to watch tomorrow.
Dan
Thanks for the links.
I was really impressed by the article explaining that the question of the iScotland currency has only one answer – an independent Scottish currency, managed by and for Scots, in the capital city of the Independent Scotland.
So, so glad the Euro is emphatically ruled out by a writer who knows what they are talking about.
Now, if you can only find some other articles explaining how the rest of the EU concept will be poison to iScotland, we could make some real progress on here. Think freedom of movement into Scotland, and all Scottish commercial activity to be put out to tender across the EU, if you want to get an idea of what would sink us.
We could maybes even grow some support amongst these Scots who have looked up “independent” in the dictionary, so aren’t going to vote for the cobbled together lie currently on offer.
@Rab Davis (6.54) –
When this place was at its busiest and best one of the highlights of the year was Stu’s coverage of the party conferences. All the images of sleeping delegates, empty seats, old dears covered from head to toe in UJs etc. It was great.
And now I find myself hoping that he’ll do the same. With the SNP conference?!
Strange days indeed…
😉
Ian Brotherhood 8.33pm
Nothing wrong with a good auld Gloat.
Yes,,,one for the Rev to cover.
No one does it like the Rev.
And if Wings did cover the SNP Conference,,, I’m sure they’d be many a member reading Wings while sitting in the arena.
Cmon Rev,,, cover the Sturgeon charade.
@Rab Davis –
It would be great, eh?
A one-off Wings ‘special’, and we could plug it in advance – ‘live’ coverage of her speech, with analysis to follow.
🙂
” Cmon Rev,,, cover the Sturgeon charade. ”
Even better , Stu gets his gonzo journalistic ” freak on n attends the Conference Hunter Thompson style : there would be Fear n Loathing aplenty . Ian B , you could be the wayward lawyer/partner in madness
It’s the Psilo Season after all .
I’d give the ether a miss
Garbage: Stupid Girl:
“I can’t believe you fake it…
…All you had you wasted”:
https://tinyurl.com/8zwzb7zs
World Economic Forum: People:
Nicola Sturgeon:
https://www.weforum.org/people/nicola-sturgeon
‘The Scottish #covid19 public inquiry has confirmed that FOUR members of their legal team have left
That’s following the resignation of the inquiry chair, Lady Poole – who is said to be standing down for personal reasons.’
That’s a tweet from Glenn Campbell, 2 hours ago.
https://twitter.com/GlennBBC/status/1577370345677406224
Nicola Sturgeon: (04/10/2022):
“During my time as the SNP leader I have received occasional words of wisdom…”:
https://archive.ph/enWJa
Abandon a sinking ship:
“To leave an organization or cause which is about to fail completely.”
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/abandon-a-sinking-ship
YahooNews (25/05/2022): Covid inquiry will not shy from holding wrong decisions to account – judge:
“The chair of Scotland’s inquiry into coronavirus has said it will not “shy away” from making findings where the wrong decisions have been made…”:
https://archive.ph/TsZol
HeraldScot (04/10/2022): Scotland’s Covid inquiry thrown into chaos after mass resignations:
“…Covid inquiry has been thrown into chaos after senior lawyers quit en masse – leading to the chairwoman standing down…”:
https://archive.ph/zM59y
Shy away from something:
“To avoid something that you dislike, fear, or do not feel confident about.”
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/shy-away-from
Integrity:
“The quality of being honest and having strong moral principles that you refuse to change.”
“Wholeness and unity.”
“State and society have been debilitated by the former’s lack of legitimacy and by cumulative onslaughts on the economy and societal integrity.”
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/integrity
Just found this link via a twitter thread – testimony from John McGill about the state-sponsored murder of Willie McRae.
https://www.electricscotland.com/independence/scotEUMcRae.pdf
The SNP have to own the crisis in the Scottish National Health Service. I have been listening to Humza tonight, 500 days in the job in fairness, it’s not his fault although there is migitation solutions available. The source of the problems stems from 10 to 15 years ago. It was categorically not Covid!. That was the straw that broke the Camels back. I will write an article for Stu. 80% research based on the former Health Minister Nicola Sturgeon decisions and 20% based on immediate family experience and employment in the sectors of GP, Nursing, HR Recruitment of Doctors and the Care sector. It probably will take 4 to 6 weeks and Stu can fact check it except for the bit where family members were in the room.
Any guesses as to why Poole and those lawyers quit?
Maybe that’s the wrong question.
Maybe we should be asking why lawyers and the law are so central to a public health inquiry…
@Hatuey –
That’s a fair question, but a more immediate one must be: what do they know that we don’t?
Testing.
@Robert Hughes
– your local councillors are either genuine men of integrity or – “the envelope was light”. If I was a betting man … though it would be a curious innovation if national politicians were cheaper to bribe than local ones.
@AlfBaird
– I think many of us were going around with phrases like “de facto colony”, “pseudo colony”, “Like a ” in our minds – but making that final leap really opens your eyes.
Trouble is we have 2 forms of colonialism to fight – the everyday bogstandard ripoff to the city of london, from the rump of empire, but “globalism” is also a form of colonialism which the FM is fully signed up to. Swapping the city for wall st might not be much progress.
She also idolises Hillary Clinton and wants to turn the SNP into a clone of the democrats, which is a pale shadow of what it was. When I was a kid, all the truly evil bad guys were republicans, Reagan, Nixon, while the good guys, JFK, Carter, were democrats. The current dems make Nixon look like a visionary – an environmentalist who went to china.
@Breeks – I am sure we all have our own stories about local scams and incidents; I used to read the local press for this, but while there is still a title, I don’t think there are any journos anymore – it was always fun to read the stories and “read between the lines”. A few years back the finance chief took early retirement with one of the most lavish packages ever seen in local govt – a payoff, obviously, but no one knew exactly what for, something humongous, or just a ton of things, aggregated.
Confused 2:03pm
Tried to post a link re CH4 piece on SNP bottling land reform.
Gremlins or Wings mod has eaten it twice.
Anyhoo,
It’s money laundering & anonymous offshore land owners buying up huge chunks of prime real estate or buying it up & then allowing it to go to rack & ruin.
Everyone should watch it. 10 minutes long.
Search YouTube *Scottish Land reform – are the SNP doing enough?* CH4.
This was another reason for Brexshit. EU was bringing in directives on land registry, cracking down on money laundering & anonymous land owners.
thanks geri – will have a look at that
nighty night wingers
Apologies to wings if it’s shows up somewhere.
Dinnie kill me with hammers lol!
Does the site not take vid clips? Apologies.
Confused, it’s a great wee 10 minute vid.
Warning – viewer discretion – it’ll get the old heckles up lol
Nite.
For anyone who may be interested, a remarkable interview with Larry Pinkney, a former member of the original Black Panthers. One of the interesting points he makes, amongst many, is that today’s so-called leaders are not actually leaders, but misleaders. A particularly apt description of our very own misleader!
http://www.infowars.com/posts/founding-black-panther-the-people-are-rising-up-against-the-great-reset/
I concur, Ian Brotherhood… what do they know that we don’t?
Could it be the darkest whitewash any of those lawyers has ever seen?
Follow the yellow brick road… who will pull back the curtain and reveal the truth?
Dorothy definitely isn’t in Kansas anymore…
This is very concerning:
“The death rate for babies in Scotland under the age of 1 is at its highest level for a decade.”
http://www.infowars.com/posts/investigation-into-unusual-spike-in-newborn-baby-deaths-in-scotland/
Wull & James Che
The UN, EU & UK government ignore Scotland for the simple reason of lucrative self interest.
UN = American owned. Thier foreign policy is to rule the world. To have prime real estate in every country to house nukes. A permanent seat on the security council & permanent breaker of rules. UK is it’s lap dog. Called to heel on demand. Also on the permanent council & why Obama chipped into indyref to spout BT bullshit.
The EU. Oil & renewables. Shipped direct from Scotland classed as coming from unknown regions.
UK = oil & carte blanche to raid us of anything they fancy on a daily basis & also has a permanent seat on the security council. No Scotland? No UK at the UN. No standing there & no veto.
I’ve often said as long as we’ve oil & nukes we’re fecked really. Scotland becoming an independent country upsets a lot of people. As for property in Scotland – it’s never for locals. It’s for landlords. Did everyone notice the rangers contingent go daft when Sturgeon announced on twitter curtailing evictions & rent caps? They went ape shit. Seems to me it’s the lodge who’s snapping up new builds, as well as the usual criminal gangs of money laundering, for no voters to move to bonnie wee scotland, where there’s also been a rash lately of folks moving who love Scotland but the SNP are shite. More yoons then? *Groans*
Alf Baird 4:18pm
That why we seriously need to look at the franchise & who can vote in indyref. It’s far too important a question.
A nation doesn’t allow everyone else to vote it out of existence. That’s why there’s international rules & protections.
It appears, yet again, to be another one of those rules for everyone else, except you, Scotland. You’re different. You’ve to be nicer & smile when yer being shafted.
With ready made excuses..’well you lost *because you just didn’t convince enough English rich *new* Scots of your case’
& ‘Away ye go ya nativist, blood & soil, moon howling, shortbread tin waving anglophobe’
Stupid, Scots. YOU failed. It’s your fault.
*yawns*
Indyref was lost by rUK. If indyref2 goes ahead by some miracle, it’ll be guaranteed to be lost in the exact same way again unless the franchise is changed. This isn’t anything new. Most countries don’t have constitutional referendums decided by every tom, dick & Harry who isn’t a resident for X amount of yrs & there’s international best practice to ensure a country isn’t consumed. I’m also not referring to rUK who’ve lived here 20yrs plus. But definitely the new ones since Devo. Tories & labour hated Devo, they still do – it goes without saying thered be a policy to breed out or actively consume the electorate going on in the vaults of the viper rooms at WM.
I think we can also predict with some certainly when it’s a no again there’ll be no indyref3
This would halt the local housing issue too. The explosion of rich landlords & the move North.
@Geri 5.41 am
Indyref was lost by rUK. If indyref2 goes ahead by some miracle, it’ll be guaranteed to be lost in the exact same way again unless the franchise is changed.
Indyref1 was lost because not enough native Scots voted for it and because the movement never really laid a glove on Project Fear’s main talking points, the currency, “you’ll be out of the EU”, and pensions. We lost because the movement became convinced it could waft us to the sunny uplands of independence on a cloud of happy-clappy positivity, where we all sat around singing Kumbaya.
We aren’t getting #indyref2 anytime soon, so the point is moot whether we’d lose again. Perhaps if we don’t fight with our hands tied behind our backs the next time? In any case, there IS a readily available alternative in the form of plebiscitary elections. All we need to make that happen is a movement with the balls to finally do something.
Most countries don’t have constitutional referendums decided by every tom, dick & Harry who isn’t a resident for X amount of yrs & there’s international best practice to ensure a country isn’t consumed.
So just the usual tub-thumping nativism then? *yawns*. International best practice for self determination referendums dictates that the franchise is residence based, not birth-right or ethnicity based. Advocating the use of “future citizenship” would be against international best practice. Even the (very few) instances of countries that used a residence criteria used 24 months.
Lastly of course, if you’re going to insist that the franchise should be limited only to those born in Scotland, or who have lived here for very long periods not used anywhere else, you’re going to have to justify why Scots born people in the diaspora (and their children and possibly grandchildren) don’t get to register to vote, as they would be entitled to citizenship of the new state.
I can see why so many of the blood and soil types are attracted to the spurious colonial narrative right enough: it solves all the problems they can’t answer by making it all someone else’s fault, and allowing them to victim-claim effectively forever in lieu of actually doing the work.
This would halt the local housing issue too. The explosion of rich landlords & the move North.
Or you know, you could just build lots more housing and plough money in to the rural economy and a “real” levelling up agenda to ensure these issues – which are hardly unique to Scotland – are actually tackled, rather than hide behind chip-on-your-shoulder Rentonesque excuses about how shite it is here?
https://archive.ph/FZfdj
NHS Scotland: Overseas recruitment drive to save health services this winter
The package includes £8m to recruit up to 750 nurses, midwives and other workers from overseas, plus 250 support staff for hospitals, primary care and mental health.
Where will these nurses/support staff come from and will our nurses/support staff be able to go to their country if they want to.
The great thing about the the EU’s free movement of labour was that it was a win win situation also there aren’t huge cultural differences between European countries.
Even if we were still in the EU I doubt if the UK would be a very attractive place for nurses/support staff to come to work.
Where are they going to get these nurses from? Which country can afford to lose their nurses.
Humza Yousaf & Alex Cole-Hamilton are on the case so it would probably be a good idea if you do everything you can to keep yourself healthy.
Geri says:
5 October, 2022 at 12:17 am
Apologies to wings if it’s shows up somewhere.
Dinnie kill me with hammers lol!
Does the site not take vid clips? Apologies.
There’s a trick to posting ‘YouTube’ clips. I don’t know what it is.
My method which seems to work is to tiny the link.
https://tinyurl.com/app/
Here it is:
https://tinyurl.com/44j7shnz
Scottish land reform: are the SNP doing enough?
https://tinyurl.com/mr7pe3zp
This is very interesting. I wonder if we will see similar protests in the UK.
These girls say there are not scared but would girls in the UK be scared of being arrested for a hate crime?
Posting a YouTube link is simple.
You highlight and copy its URL in the address bar then paste it in the Wings’ comment box.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-6DzKzmFtA
But you have to delete the “h-t-t-p-s-://” from the start of it, so that it begins “www”.
When you submit your comment, WordPress will automatically add the “h-t-t-p-s-://” to the link.
Geri says:
5 October, 2022 at 12:13 am
This was another reason for Brexshit. EU was bringing in directives on land registry, cracking down on money laundering & anonymous land owners.
That is very interesting!
I voted remain not because I knew all the details of how the EU worked who does. I voted remain principally because I felt the EU gave us protection from crooked/fascist politicians.
The more I learn the more I know I made the correct decision.
Interesting that they are desperately looking for takers for Sturgeon’s speech, given it is in Aberdeen.
Surely the mighty Aberdeen Independence Movement is thousands of activists, given its influence in the party? And not just two dozen very strange people?
Bollocks from English Ellis 5.41am
“Indyref1 was lost because not enough native Scots voted for it“
Post-referendum analysis determined 53% of ‘native Scots’ – Ellis’s phrase – voted for independence, thus proving if the vote on our constitution had been restricted (as it is in other countries) to indigenous Scots, we might well be an autonomous nation again.
Dont’cha admire Ellis’s chutzpah? One minute he denies there’s anything called ‘ethnic’ in Scotland and then claims not enough ethnic Scots voted ‘Yes’?
In terms of how Scotland voted in 2014, there are a few demographics you could single out and say if this particular group voted differently, the outcome would have been different… From memory that includes old people and even women (I’m not certain but from memory something like only 41% of women voted “yes” and that’s huge when you consider half the electorate are women).
It’s the job of campaign strategists to look at ways to resolve trending like that and that’s where the emphasis shifts to issues rather than demographics. It’s essentially marketing; find a demographic you want to sway, find an issue that is dear to their hearts (a hook), address that issue directly in communications and marketing… petty basic stuff.
With all that considered, I don’t really know how you could convince a non-Scottish voter from elsewhere in the UK to vote to destroy the Union when so much for them hinges on the continuation of the Union, including their ability to come here to live, buy property, work, and vote, in the first place. That’s a tough sell.
Maybe Ellis has a few ideas. Note, though, that we already tried telling them they could stay, live, vote, work, etc., we did that in 2014, that’s basically the essence of civic nationalism, and the data suggests something like 80% were not convinced.
Maybe we just need to accept that structural deficit as the price we pay to be considered nice or something.
Sturgeon mustn’t be allowed to manoeuvre a partisan head into the chair of the Scottish Covid Inquiry of which the recent head and some lawyers have resigned from.
“Scotland’s Covid inquiry is delayed because senior lawyers have quit en masse. Reports suggest lead counsel, Douglas Ross KC and three junior counsel resigned, prompting Lord Poole to quit as chairwoman.”
https://twitter.com/Grouse_Beater/status/1577426966718066688?cxt=HHwWgMDRpf_dkuQrAAAA
https://twitter.com/Grouse_Beater/status/1577426966718066688?cxt=HHwWgMDRpf_dkuQrAAAA
So, the new unelected monarch of which Sturgeon kowtowed to recently, is looking to bypass rent freezing in Scotland.
https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fuk-news%2F2022%2Foct%2F04%2Fking-charles-allowed-to-vet-proposed-scottish-rent-freeze-law%3FCMP%3Dshare_btn_tw
@Grouse Beater 10.30 am
You’ve used the epithet “English Ellis” before Gareth, presumably because you feel it somehow supports what passes for your case. Quite apart from the fact it isn’t accurate, you have to wonder why you feel it is appropriate to apparently use it as a term to other a fellow Alba party member?
You are of course quite wrong to make the false equivalence between the franchise used in already independent countries for votes on constitutional changes, and the franchise used in self determination referendums. The latter are virtually without exception residence based, and few even impose any restrictions on length of residence.
The few self determination referendums which have had length of residence criteria usually plump for 24 months, whereas the xenophobic nativists who soil the Scottish independence movement routinely call for outlandish periods of 10, 15 or 20 years.
As to the rest of your piss-poor straw man arguments, they’re easily dealt with. You and other blood and soil nationalists don’t get to dictate who is and isn’t Scottish. I was at the Alba meeting in Edinburgh you attended a few months ago, and noticed when both Alex Salmond and Tasmina Ahmed Sheik rubbished the idea of franchise restriction you looked like you were chewing a wasp. Your “indigenous votes for indigenous folks” schtick is obviously about as popular in Alba as an invitation to dinner with Nicola Sturgeon.
Nativists would be better off trying to increase turnout, or to persuade more native born Scots to support independence, or more of the 57% of non-UK New Scots who voted No last time to change their minds. Far easier for most of them to scratch their atavistic xenophobic itch I suppose, or claim we’re a colony so some external actor will intervene to do the job for us.
@ RoS at 10.54am,
Ach, that must be wrong coz…
“The Crown does not have any control over the democratic process in the UK, nor in Scotland, Northern Ireland or Wales.”
https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-neverending-mandate/comment-page-1/#comment-2705802
Big thumbs up to NHS Scotland for quality and speedy treatment.
On Sunday I noticed a week old insect bite of some sort on leg had developed an ominous “tick target” (Lyme disease) like bruising / rash with enlarged lymph node on that side of the groin.
Phoned Doctors’ Surgery first thing Monday morning, got appointment early Monday afternoon, prescribed and started the course of Doxycycline antibiotics.
Also got appointment to see the nurse Tuesday morning to give various blood samples for testing.
I got phoned back this morning with blood results.
Now just fingers crossed it doesn’t develop into a prolonged issue.
Ellis,
The Indyref was gerrymandered whether you like to believe it or not.
I understand you have full faith that the UK government and representatives wouldn’t dare do or say anything inappropriate, especially during purdah and that the argument for an independent Scotland would be given a fair crack of the whip on all state broadcasting channels.
It’s not as if they would abuse whatever power in whatever way.
Cheating? Well, it’s simply not cricket!
I wonder how the referenda were handled in New Russia.
@ Breastplate
Can ye mind the “impartial” civil service also got an award for saving the Union too…
Andy’s cunning plan for Indy hinges on the SNP doing things that they don’t seem inclined to do.
Once we manage that, we need to convince the UK Government to do things they don’t seem inclined to do. Dismissing all those democratic mandates doesn’t bode well for those who think they’ll bow to a plebiscitary election…
As if that isn’t cunning enough, we then need to convince turkeys from the rest of the UK to vote for Christmas. Looking at how they voted before, that seems unlikely.
I’m happy to concede that Andy’s cunning plan for Indy truly is the cunningest plan of all.
@Hatuey
Maybe Ellis has a few ideas. Note, though, that we already tried telling them they could stay, live, vote, work, etc., we did that in 2014, that’s basically the essence of civic nationalism, and the data suggests something like 80% were not convinced.
Maybe we just need to accept that structural deficit as the price we pay to be considered nice or something.
It’s not hard to come up with ideas. I’ve suggested them before. Work to increase turnout: the turnout in 2014 was pretty impressive at 85%, but the Quebecois managed 92% in theirs from memory.
Persuade more of the >80% of native born Scots to support independence.
Persuade more of the 57% of non-UK born “New Scots” to support Yes: doubtless their perspectives might be slightly different for #indyref2 given events like Brexit and the clownish Tory administrations in the UK we’ve endured since?
Changes in circumstances may of course have changed some minds already, but doubtless there is a hard core of unionists amongst New Scots who will never be persuadable, just as there are many native Scots who would never support independence under any circumstances. I’m sure many of us know people in both groups, just as we’ll know folk who voted No last time whose minds can be changed.
In the end however you are right: civic nationalism does entail accepting a structural deficit whereby the votes of New Scots might swing the result. The same might be said for lots of groups. Female voters incensed at GRA and TRA extremists might decide to abandon the Yes camp if it is identified with support for those issues for example in a campaign dominated by the SNP and Scottish Greens who are pushing those policies.
The prospectus of our civic nationalism being better than old-school regressive nationalism hasn’t changed, but if parts of the movement are content to endorse franchise restriction to exclude New Scots because of where they were born, then we’re not on the same side irrespective of sharing a desire to reach the same destination.
Ellis,
I see you have newly caveated your argument for length of residence for eligibility in voting in referenda with “outlandish”, which is completely subjective.
Everyone agrees that there should be a qualifying period, there is just disagreement on what that qualifying period should be.
There are differences in the gravity or importance of referenda questions.
A referendum, for example, about whether or not to ban facial coverings would perhaps carry less importance than a referendum on implementing public hanging for schoolboys who haven’t done their homework.
2 years qualifying period for the former would be reasonable I think and a longer qualifying period for the latter, perhaps in the region of 10,000 years.
Yes, I’m making light of the subject but some questions are more important than others.
A longer qualifying period for perhaps one of the most important constitutional questions that can be asked is not unreasonable.
Dan,
Yes, I do indeed.
Geri.
There are so many fingers in Scotlands pie from outside Scotland including the voting franchise for counting Scottish votes after they are travelling miles from the original voting stations, that I am surprised that a large portion Scots do not know this,
Add to that anyone is allowed to vote in any election in Scotland, even dead people,
Why the blind faith that the actual that voting ends up as representative of Scots,
Scots are not out numbered and out manoeuvred in Scotland to ever gain a honest result from a voting in this setup system.
You have to recall and check history to see that [ Scots did not vote] to enter in a treaty of union with England’s parliament in the first instance,
The Scots have never been asked this question.
It is nothing other than word smithing.
Read, Scots are out numbered and out manoeuvred
Geri,
Scots have never been asked the question in any kind of vote,
Do you want to join in a union with England,
Ruby & Brian
Cheers for the info on tube links. Good to know.
Ruby re EU directives. Yes, they forewarned they were bringing in new directives to clamp down on anonymous land owners, absentee landlords, as well as the money laundering & criminality & tax avoidance which ended with a dead end at a tax haven. This was all ending – they were making a register, checking it twice, going to find out who was naughty & nice..lol
The stampede of sewer rats in WM had to abandon ship.
I voted to remain for the same reasons as you did. The EU gave us Devo & a load of other protections like pay, environmental (clean beeches) & animal standards.
Also, it would trigger indyref2. Being taken out of the EU was in Sturgeons manifesto. The gang would be back together woooo hooo!
Little did I know the stupid cow would try to kill her own mandate by trying to reverse it FFS! The ever stupid Sturgeon who can’t take it in that the yoons will never be her friend. Ever. She’d *Stop brexit* FFS!
How did we end up with such a dullard?!
Scottish natives of Scotland have never been asked to vote or have gone to polling stations to vote
On the question,
Do you want to join in a union with England?
The UK parliament site in 2022 admits to avoiding asking the question and putting the question to the native Scots in 1707.
Andy Ellis
Have you informed the UK government of your displeasure at the way they run referendums & elections?
This isn’t a mistake. Wales also suffers the same problem. The natives didn’t vote Brexshited. The *new* English Welsh did.
Also, can you explain the phenomena of GE2015?
Is it that greedy bastards move here for all of the benefits of devolution & mitigation while retaining thier yoonisim?
Native Scots voted Yes. It was rUK who chained us. It’s simple fact. It’s been analysed a hundred times by ppl far more in charge of the stats than you are.
Many no doubt have heard the phrase, Root cause.
The Root Cause for the Scots is that they have been duped into thinking they joined a treaty of union ever since 1707.
This is not true.
Besides the UK parliament admitting it has never asked the native people of Scotland to join the treaty of union EVER..
The political union between the Scottish and English parliaments, (to use legal terms)
It Has no legal force, as a agreement or declaration, it has no legally binding power or validity.
craig murray says:
5 October, 2022 at 10:20 am
Interesting that they are desperately looking for takers for Sturgeon’s speech, given it is in Aberdeen.
Surely the mighty Aberdeen Independence Movement is thousands of activists, given its influence in the party? And not just two dozen very strange people?
Mibees I’ll join the SNP and go..
Mooooooohahahaha!!
Air horn…. Check.
Emergency Flare… Check.
Megaphone for booing…. Check.
Superglue and chains so I can fix myself to the scenery… check.
Inflatable “Resign” sign… check.
Packet of Chivers jelly… (fake ID)… check.
How will I sneak it past security? Easy. I’ll stuff it all under my ballgown and threaten to punch fk out anybody who dares to suggest I’m not once, twice, three times a lady. “It’s Miss Chivers actually”.
Oh aye… eggs! Packed at the bottom of the bag of course. Don’t want to look suspicious.
Going directly to the 1707 Scottish parliament and the 1706 English parliament terms for making such a political union,
Legally Englands 1706 parliament did not end Its parliament session until 1708.
It breach the terms of the political treaty of union.
@Breastplate 12.21 pm
I see you have newly caveated your argument for length of residence for eligibility in voting in referenda with “outlandish”, which is completely subjective.
Well no, it isn’t completely subjective. You’re entitled to your opinion, others are entitled to theirs. Objectively however, it’s pretty easy for anyone with an internet connection to find out which self determination referendums imposed residence criteria, and if they did how long they were.
The discussion has been had many times before, not least BTL here. The evidence has been presented. Very few of the dozens of self determination referendums held in modern times had residence criteria. the few that did usually chose 24 months. Feel free to do the homework and admit your error any time you like.
Everyone agrees that there should be a qualifying period, there is just disagreement on what that qualifying period should be.
Not so. You don’t speak for everyone. The movement as a whole has shown no appetite for changing the 2014 franchise criteria. Plenty of people are quite happy with the existing franchise. Some – including myself and Rev Stu in the past – have said we’d be willing to accept a “reasonable” period of proof of residence or measures to exclude obvious temporary residents like students, or second home owners.
24 months seems acceptable to me, as other countries have used it. I and many others – probably the majority whatever you think – are quite happy with a 2014 pattern franchise however.
Yes, I’m making light of the subject but some questions are more important than others.
I agree some questions are more important than others. A 24 month residence criteria would be defensible, but would still place us as an outlier amongst self determination referendums generally. Just as some questions are more important than others, so there are different types of questions.
Thus, the convention and history of self determination referendums is that all residents are presumed to have a stake in the outcome, and therefore an entitlement to a say, irrespective of their birth, ethnicity or length of residence. That’s the very essence of civic nationalism, and the best foundations upon which to establish the early days of a better nation. That question is more important than – say – a constitutional referendum post independence on whether we have a republic, or join NATO or the EU, or outlaw Orange Marches.
James Che, yes I know we’ve never been asked.
Tom Devine did a lot of talks on that during indyref & how the barstewards even broke the rules back then or it would’ve had cause for instant dissolution.
& In recent times we’ve been chained by the impossible rules they make up to suit thier elasticated measure. 40%? nah 60%? nah 80%? Fk it! let’s make it 99% what about a sign from God? & Don’t forget the unicorns in Perth to keep Pishy Pete onboard.
If only us stupid Scots could find a way to convince the English not to be so English or something…
Once twice three times a lady.
Perhaps you have just suggestec a break through for the independence movement with out realising it.
Marches and rallies could be held any time in newly discovered identities and dress.
And females at the rallies and marches co not need to worry, because no one can identify a woman,
Where theres a will there is a way 😉
LOL breeks!
James Che.
I suggested that on twitter one evening. All the indy movement needed to do was to switch gender & cry about our feelings.
It’d have Sturgeon tweeting from her broom cupboard in no time.
..many lols were had.would Thier arse look big in the saltire & Whiskers on kittens & favourite things..lol
Ffs Ellis,
I’m sorry if this is confusing for you.
You’re arguing that there should be qualifying criteria, the same as everyone else here who has expressed an interest in cat food.
We have different opinions on varying criteria.
Geri,
Its the Scots that need to know that they were NEVR IN the TREATY.
Its the Scots that need to know they are still a sovereign country, territory, nation and Culture without a treaty provided monarch
Where as the rest of Scotlands new population need to decide wether the love of their union of Britain, will pay their mortgages in Scotland, provide them with food, will the union prevent the on coming financial crash, will the union provide them with petrol and energy to their houses this winter,
And if we accidentally realise that Scotland is not in a treaty of union, do we accidentally rid our of the mythical union, do we also accidentally our selves of the devolved government by default and all who sale in her that are preventing Scotland and the people that live here from prospering.
The point of persuading actually, lies in the realisation for new Scots that all the economical collapse, the energy shortages, the food shortages, the rich against the middle class’s and the poor are all happening while we are ruled by Westminster under the influence of being in a union.if England falls, Scotland being attached will go with it.
I know many who aren’t happy with the elections in Scotland. Postal votes, holiday homes & two vote students.
Then there’s the process of 7 time loser MSPs still running.
Then ex Scots. They’re banned but Barbara fae Manchester who’s been here a few months gets a vote.
The Irish did it right & gathered forces from the whole fecking world that they used to thier advantage whether by int pressure or funding. We block ours. Cause we’re bright like that.
There’s a lot wrong with Scottish elections the SNP could’ve cleaned up.
& I don’t know anyone that happy over indyref franchise. It’s a recipe to fail.
As the realisation dawns that Scots were never asked to vote to join a treaty of union, admitted by UK parliament in 2022,
There also comes a the realisation that there is no need for a referendum or plebicite election for the Scots in Scotland,
Perhaps there should be one to ask if the new inhabitants of Scotland wish to become Registered as being Scots.?
James Che.
New English Scots don’t care. As I’ve mentioned, nobody votes to extinguish themselves & if a Yes vote happens, they’re extinguished. There’s no UK. They’re British & they’ll stay British & what’s more, jocks, you are our possession.
Look at all the ones who scream for WM to take back control & end Devo for good.
I don’t see how you’d ever convince them & then thiers the NI contingent who think we’re akin to the IRA FFS.
Native Scots are definitley not in a union with England.
This is maybe why we are not asked to y the union to closely,
The Scots are supposed to remain dumbed down, and ask no questions.
Panelbase politics oll on the go, it gives Mr Salmond as an option as somebody you can trust so not from the SNP then!
I guess its somebody not far from here ?
James, don’t tell Andy about the English test they have. He’d sure to be firing off letters of outrage to the UK gov at how unfair & impossible it is unless you’ve swallowed an English Empire history book.
Has he?
Geri.
A bad winter and their mortgages disappearing, leaving them without a home or energy while attached to the UK government austerity should do it.
We will not have to wake them up in Scotland, not this time, for the union government runs all of UK,
The devolved government is just the distant management branch in Scotland like branches of Supermarkets or bank branches.
They all have to do what the head office says. And that is in London.
In fact. Not just history..
What is the distance between the North coast of Scotland & the south west corner of England?
WTAF is that to do with the price of bread? LOL
I wonder how many contributors and commenters can here can find the moment in history when Sovereign Scots where ever asked by a vote if they wanted to join the treaty of the union?
Remembering that in Scotland the people are Sovereign first and foremost,
@Breastplate
FFS Breastplate, I’m arguing that I personally believe there is no real need or clamour in the movement to change the franchise. It’s a non issue apart from for a minority of regressive, chip on their shoulder types who are mostly none too keen on furriners and have fallen for the “Scotland as colony” snake oil.
If there was a real desire amongst a demonstrable majority to ditch the current franchise, the yes some of us would accept limited changes that would be justifiable to the international community and progressive opinion.
There’s a big difference between pragmatically agreeing to minor changes in the franchise when you find the whole concept unreasonable and unnecessary, and kow towing to regressive, blood and soil nationalists in the movement some of whom – including some in here as you very well know – are calling for residence criteria of ridiculous lengths like 10, 15 or 20 years, or even just denying any one not born here the vote completely.
The Government of Gibraltar (Part of our beloved family of nations) held a referendum in 2002 that imposed a residence requirement of not less than 10 years on those eligible to vote – this referendum was about ceding some sovereignty to Spain. UK Govt stated it wouldn’t recognise the result before the ballot, but did.
New Caledonia had 3 referendums in quick succession (as allowed by Nouméa Accord of 1998) that imposed 20 year residence requirement – these referendums in 2018, 2020 & 2021 were about becoming independent of France. France said it’d recognise the results and did.
Ellis discards these referendums as irrelevant – Scotland can’t have the same kind of restrictions for reasons only he knows. He’s no friend of Scotland. He’s no friend of anyone but himself. And he isn’t even part of the “we” who voted either way in 2014 unless he claimed his local connection, ie birthright, and voted by post…his very first blog post, where he mentions his conversion to the cause, infers btl that he didn’t, but that was Jan ’14.
James, they had a taste of that during furlough.
The man from WM, he says No.
Cue the outrage to the SNP to fix it for them. To use the indyref fund or something..?
UN report of shame at the Tory idiology of cruel austerity didn’t even shame them..
Eat porridge. It’s cheap. & Stop buying drugs & hookers with *our* taxes..
Breastplate.
Length of residence of eligibilty.
True native Scots with generation after generation of history are of course not in the treaty of the union,
How this would work out for a nation of Sovereign Scots or the difference of relative newbee’s to Scotland would depend on wether they wished to commit themselves as registering as Scots, ie, not British.
” It’s a non issue apart from for a minority of regressive, chip on their shoulder types who are mostly none too keen on furriners and have fallen for the “Scotland as colony” snake oil.”
It’s only a non-issue because not enough folk realise that non-native Scots swung the vote against independence in 2014, and it will happen again if we’re stupid enough to allow the exact same franchise to go ahead.
The Welsh didn’t vote for Brexit.
As for the colony, you figure it out.
https://twitter.com/Grouse_Beater/status/1577063916836098048?cxt=HHwWgMDQ8drR7eIrAAAA
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/sep/22/english-people-wales-brexit-research
” whereas the xenophobic nativists who soil the Scottish independence movement”
Interesting use of words from someone who uses the word Orcs regularly to describe foreigners he doesn’t like.
Geri,
Furlough was nothing in comparison to What is about to happen in the UK,
In furlough you still had heating and some degree of energy to the home for most,
The UK are now withdrawing furlough, and trying to make people go back jobs that are no longer in business,
all credit systems will and are slowly being reduced or difficult to access under obstacles put in place, As are state pensions through raising the age bar.
The Uk are voluntary going broke, giving away billions. While the british populations are struggling.
There is no safety valve for Britain, but the possibility that Scotland going a different path with its own energy sources, provides a source to back a Scottish currency.
To release farmers from draconian rules of climate change to provide food for Scottish people. To trade with other countries, to re-establish a NHS,
If new Scots want to survive and thrive in Scotland they have a silver of a chance of surviving a collapsing Britain by considering a independent Scotland.
BBC (05/10/2022): Bereaved families feel ‘failed’ by Covid inquiry:
“Bereaved families of Covid victims have said they already feel “failed” by Scotland’s public inquiry amid a raft of resignations.
The review’s lead counsel and three junior counsels quit on Thursday, followed by the resignation of chairwoman Lady Poole on Friday…
…bereaved families had met Lady Poole in January, adding: “We were left with the distinct impression it was a tick-box exercise.”
“There’s been absolutely nothing – zero – ever since from Lady Poole and that doesn’t fit with the promise that was made to us to be front and centre of the process.”…”:
https://archive.ph/h4Iup
Scotland is a colony.
Otherwise we wouldn’t need to seek permission from our overlords if it was ok with them if we left.
So Andy didn’t even vote in indyref? ?
Why would the native Scot have to consider changing the franchise or following a franchise that has no implication impeding relevance to themselves.
The Scots are not in the treaty of the union, they were never asked to be.
They do not need a vote to come out of a treaty they never entered, thats stupid.
Unaccountable:
“Be unaccountable to someone/something.”
“To not be expected to explain or provide a reason to a particular person or organization for your actions.”
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/unaccountable
The Brits work on a act & ignore now – revisit & pay comp in 50+ years when it’s unlocked from the vaults.
It’ll be a whitewash. Sturgeon is the queen of unaccountability since she found her new friends.
@”Scott” 2.39 pm
Ellis discards these referendums as irrelevant – Scotland can’t have the same kind of restrictions for reasons only he knows.
They are irrelevant because both areas are non-self governing territories and recognised as such by the UN. this has been pointed out to you before, but of course because is destroys what passes for your argument, you blithely ignore it and try to pretend they are the same, while ignoring the dozens of other cases of self determination referendums which ARE analogous to the Scottish case.
So why don’t you compare the franchise restrictions used in Quebec, or Catalonia “Scott”? I think alert readers know why.
@RoS 3.04 pm
Interesting use of words from someone who uses the word Orcs regularly to describe foreigners he doesn’t like.
I use it to describe the war criminals invading country 404. Fair comment as far as most people with a moral compass are concerned.
You on the other hand continue to insist the people of country 404 “had it coming”. We’ve known for a long time what your position is, and can safely point and laugh at you trying to take the moral high ground.
Wasn’t there someone from Quebec on here retelling what happened to them?
Breeks says:
How will I sneak it past security? Easy. I’ll stuff it all under my ballgown and threaten to punch fk out anybody who dares to suggest I’m not once, twice, three times a lady. “It’s Miss Chivers actually”.
Oh aye… eggs! Packed at the bottom of the bag of course. Don’t want to look suspicious.
I reckon you could get a couple of dozen large eggs into each breast if you went for XXX cup size prosthetic breasts.
Chivers Jelly?
Was the fake boobs teacher a hoax?
https://archive.ph/LVqNQ
A hoax or not a hoax nothing can be done about it.
https://tinyurl.com/2p86hjvb
PS. Do you have to be a member of the SNP to go to the conference? Maybe if they are desperate for numbers a guest pass might be available.
I hope you go for it Breeks and a whole load of other big breasted men in evening gowns join you.
That would be a hoot. 🙂
The question is would you or wouldn’t you get any press coverage.
PPS You forgot to include a whoopee cushion/fart in a can.
As usual Ellis gives it the majority this or the majority that when he is pushing his pish and when asked to produce EVIDENCE to support his pish no evidence can be found, but when anyone counters his arguments they are immediately asked to produce evidence
The evidence was produced in an investigation by Edinburgh university, but for some reason (maybe because it went against the establishment and HIGHLIGHTED the stupidity of the franchise) it was ignored by the establishment
YET Ellis and his supporters continue with the FALSE CLAIM that the Scots didn’t do enough to convince the very people who shouldn’t have had a vote on OUR CONSTITUTION
His usual denigration of people who oppose his outpourings only highlights the fact that he is a self opinionated , self absorbed pub bore that despises any opposition to his declarations
Any claimed indy supporter that openly and publicly states he would ACTIVELY WORK AGAINST Scottish independence if the franchise were altered and his wife and daughter couldn’t vote is not an indy supporter I would trust
Whether Ellis likes it or not 53% of SCOTS voted FOR independence and we WERE robbed by OTHERS
In reference to Stuart’s article at the top of this btl thread. I think i’ve pointed this out before. Has anyone else noticed that every now and again Mhairi Hunter crops up with something controversial? And not for the first time. She’s speaking, yet again, in those comments as if she heads the indy movement. Is she an attention-seeking wannabe? Or as Stuart correctly points out in the article, is it a case of her being close enough to Sturgeon to say such things with confidence? Probably both!
The indy movement really needs to be driving a case for boycotting General Elections to Westminster. We don’t need to send ‘Pension Pete’ types to London to take back our right of self-determination. And boycotts are the only legitimate and legal way for us to hit the SNP troughers hard. They must be made to pay for squandering opportunity after opportunity in order to feather their own nests and promote their own self-serving agendas. You only have to look at the subservient sycophantic actions between Skanky Sturgeon and Bonny Prince Lugs. There’s no puke-pale big enough.
__________
A couple of weeks ago i read a comment on here, can’t remember by who, but by the time i wanted to get back to responding to it i had lost all idea of where, who etc. It was something along the lines of Alex Salmond said he could bring Sturgeon down at any time. I don’t ever recall reading or hearing Salmond saying that. But if i’m wrong then the time for doing so has long since gone. He put that Skank Sturgeon in position so if that commentor was telling the truth then all i can say is what are you waiting on, Alex? Every minute she’s in position Scotland slips further into Unionist clutches from which we will *never* escape.
‘UK prepares for winter blackouts as energy rationing campaign discussed’ https://archive.ph/DT19d
Ah ha! That would explain why i received a leaflet last week from Scottish Power informing folk what to do in the event of a “power cut” etc. In all my years as a customer of theirs i have *never* received such a leaflet, or anything similar, and i thought it odd at the time. This may explain things. LOL!