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Cursed By Stupidity

Posted on October 06, 2022 by

Honestly, readers, swear to God, all joking and sarcasm aside, when we saw this tweet yesterday we were wondering how on Earth some clever satirist had managed to hack Anas Sarwar’s account to insert the screenshot into it.

Because we didn’t believe that even Scottish Labour’s low-watt-bulb of a branch manager would willingly post something that made him look so much of an imbecile.

Proudly trumpeting the fact that his tattered ragbag of tenth-rate nobodies still trailed the SNP by a massive 14 points, and had in fact just reshuffled the deckchairs of the Unionist vote at a time when the UK government appears to be actively attempting to commit public suicide, was dumb even by Sarwar’s standards. But nobody ever went broke by overestimating just how thick North British Labour are.

You couldn’t move on social media last night for them – largely rejected former M/SPs – proclaiming that their “party” was back in business in Scotland.

Even though the very poll they were quoting also predicted that if there was an election tomorrow they’d in fact win just seven Scottish seats out of 59.

(Or as comedy moron Kezia Dugdale put it, “dozens”.)

And that on the same polling the SNP would secure an outright majority in a Holyrood election for only the second time, with pro-indy MSPs rising from 72 to a record 79.

But even funnier was that the poll didn’t suggest a SINGLE reduction in Tory seats from people voting Labour. That’s because Labour are absolutely nowhere in the only six Scottish seats the Tories actually hold. In half of them they’re stone dead last.

All six of Labour’s prospective gains would be at the expense of the SNP, making absolutely no difference whatsoever to the opposition numbers at Westminster. The Tories would be six seats down because they’d have lost those six seats to the SNP.

Now, none of this actually matters. We know from history that 50 Scottish Labour MPs at Westminster are at least as worthless as 50 SNP ones, and since UK Labour are every bit as stridently against a second indyref as the Tories are, the idea of any indy supporters switching to them is farcical.

But it really is jaw-dropping that after 15 years of the most abject failure in Scotland the branch office is still punting the exact same voter-insulting garbage in the hope that it’ll suddenly start working.

As this site proved conclusively over a decade ago, Labour doesn’t need Scotland. It only ever wins UK elections when it wins in England. They could get 100% of votes in Scotland every time, not 31%, and it’d still make sod-all difference to anything.

(We couldn’t help but smile in passing at the fact that the figure the party was delirious with excitement over was still lower than its Scottish vote share when it was crushed by Alex Salmond’s landslide majority victory in 2011.)

This site’s utter contempt for Nicola Sturgeon’s pathetic devolutionist excuse for an SNP is a well-documented fact. But our commitment to truth never changes, and the truth is that voting Labour in Scotland cannot hurt the Tories, far less “kick them out”. In the only seats the Tories hold north of the border, Scottish Labour are a staggering average of almost 20,000 votes behind them. (19,857.5 to be precise).

If Labour really wanted Scotland to defeat the Tories “together”, as Ian Murray claimed, they would at an absolute minimum be urging tactical votes for the SNP in those six seats – in four of them, adding Labour’s votes to the SNP’s would be enough to oust the Tory. But it’s still so consumed by its blind, vicious hatred for the party that replaced it in Scotland that it would rather the Tories had six seats than none.

But what Blair McDougall and his idiot pals still can’t get into their tiny tiny brains is that Yes supporters DON’T want a Labour government (which will inevitably be replaced by another Tory one a few years later). They want independence, and regard Labour as their enemy just like the Tories are. They want to be rid of the Tories by choosing their own governments, at EVERY election, not by having English voters impose their choice on them and just hoping that occasionally it coincides with Scotland’s.

A “change” to another neoliberal, anti-independence, anti-trade-union and pro-Brexit party is no change at all. (Although it would be a change for the worse for women’s rights.) The proposed tax cut for the rich that so spectacularly blew the floor out from under the Tory government would in fact have just restored the top rate to what it was for more than 99% of Labour’s last 13-year term in government.

Even so, a Scottish Labour that wasn’t staffed entirely by echo-skulled pinheads like the above might actually have a chance of making some progress in Scotland. Heaven knows the country needs an effective opposition to the incompetent, corrupt and evil shambles that’s in charge of it. But readers, these absolute honking embarrassments to the dribbling-cretin community ain’t it. Our country is plagued.

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    364 to “Cursed By Stupidity”

    1. Willie says:

      Folks in Scotland know exactly what brand Labour is and what it delivers. And that is why they are a minority party on their absolute knees.

      Folks also know that if every Scottish MP was a Labour MP that it would make no difference at all in Westminster. The Rev is right to point out that Tory Government after Tory Government has been elected by England and that no amount of Labour MPs in Scotland would have changed that. Indeed there are many of us who recall all to well the Feeble Fifty, as was the title given to the fifty Labour MPs back in the 90s who were as good as a chocolate fireguard.

      The Feeble Fifty took their pay and perks though and settled in. Not I’m afraid any different from the current 49 yellow MPs who are doing the same thing. The SNP in Scotland are the new Feeble Fifty – and troughers to the core.

      But hey, we know that, and we are now enjoying the fruits of their inaction and their treachery. People in Scotland haven’t had their faces stomped hard enough into the gutter yet. That sadly is true else they would have demanded independence by now. But change for the many is coming, roaring inflation, shredded savings, shredded pension pots, shrinking benefits, reversing living standards, it all there for us, whilst all the while the elites get ever wealthier.

      But yes, back to the article, Labour in Scotland would make no difference, just like the SNP make no difference.

    2. Dan Watt says:

      Wow reading this it’s almost as if the good old days are back. I’m sure Pensions Pete will find something to moan and cause division about though.

    3. Liesel. says:

      He he! Not content with shooting themselves in the foot the North Labour branch just goes ahead and shoots itself in the head.

      Does anyone believe or trust or even like ANY politician either in Holyrood or Westminster? Asking for a friend who can’t name a single one.

    4. 100%Yes says:

      If the Surpreme court rules against the Indyref2 Chris Law wants us to give him another mandate to ask the UKG what is the route in which Scotland can leave the UK, he’s been in Westminster 8 yrs so why hasn’t asked that question and why will it take another 5 yrs to get an answer?

    5. ‘Cursed by Stupidity’

      It certainly and accurately describes this day and Age. Especially in comparison to:

      ‘The effect of the Claim of Right was to “bolster the position of parliament within the Scottish constitution at the expense of the royal prerogative”. It was affirmed by an Act of the Scottish Parliament of 1703’

      The population of Scotland in that era were not as well off as today… However, they were richer in who were in their governance and leadership; after all, we can still see that the above ‘Claim of Right’ matters to us all!

    6. James Che says:

      If labour, tory or snp win in Scotland you can bet it wasn’t Scots that counted the votes.

    7. JockMcT says:

      Who gave that fish in a barrel a magnum 47..??

    8. Anonymoose says:

      I note that the unionist FCDO linked John Smith Trust/John Smith Center at the University of Glasgow (that Nicola Sturgeon and Humza Yousless are ardent fans of) has let Dugdale off her leash to write in the BritNat Times after they raised her job role to a “Centre Director”.

      I’m not sure if her job is actually running the centre or mererly directing people to the correct seat when they enter the building like some sort of overpaid low-grade chaperone.

      As for my comment about NS and HY being ardent fans of the John Smith Centre, they went as far as accepting “students” of the Smith Centre as SNP Scottish Government interns, now if that’s not inviting the political-youth of your supposed political nemesis in to peruse the family silver I really don’t know what is.

      Mind you the SNP did have Stephen Gethins as an MP for a while, now a director of the John Smith Trust who’s list of board members are all unionists with strong ties to the UK Government’s FCDO [https://johnsmithtrust.org/about/board/], as are the board members of the John Smith Centre itself which looks like a roll-call of Labour and Tories with a smattering of Charlotte Street Partners thrown in a vain attempt to look legitimate [https://www.johnsmithcentre.com/about-us/our-board/].

    9. Geri says:

      You can almost hear Winnie ‘keep fking driving! We’ll got on at the next stop!’

    10. Frank Gillougley says:

      Or to quote macdiarmid, ‘all is dead here, save stupidity.’
      Certainly says it all for me.

    11. Hatuey says:

      There’s two things that are about to happen at the same time.

      Labour are going to pick up votes and seats from the SNP in Scotland. It’s inevitable. With the British MSM talking up Starmer and talking down the Tories, the closer we get to the election, the more people will jump on the basis that ‘every little helps…’

      That’s all on one track.

      On another track, more and more people are becoming more and more sick of the sight of Nicola Sturgeon — and assuming I’m not unique, that includes Indy supporters.

      If you want independence and you believe Sturgeon’s SNP has wasted chance after chance, and probably destroyed all hope, why wouldn’t you vote for Labour?

      The problem the SNP has is that it can no longer say a vote for us is a vote to end this shit… We all know it isn’t, it’s a vote to perpetuate it.

      Of course, they’ll play the Indy card again — “this is it, we really mean it this time” — but you’d need to be pretty thick to buy it.

      It’s bleak.

    12. James Che says:

      Hatuey,

      People are becoming more and more are sick of the site of NS, snp, Tories, Labour, the Greens, the lib dems,

      Combined or individual parties,

      We are where we are in a economic downfall in Scotland and generally Britain because of them,
      They were in charge.

    13. dandydons1903 says:

      Labour are just perfidious british nationalists who want to keep Scotland down. I would never give my vote to any british nationalist party no matter what! Stick that in your pipe Sarwar!

    14. Geri says:

      Don’t look for it changing.

      Yay! We’ve voted to have a PR system!

      Two minutes later ..

      Yay! We’ll never work with the SNP! Ever. Under any circumstances!

      *Standing ovations all round*

      LOL thick as mince.

    15. auld highlander says:

      Vote for a unionist labour party? Yer dreaming Sarwar.

      66% of my life has been under a Tory government according to https://wingsoverscotland.com/tory-calculator/

      Vote labour? No nay never.

    16. auld highlander says:

      Tory or Labour = two cheeks of the same erse.

    17. Hatuey says:

      Of course, James Che, they’re all shit and voters are being asked to choose the least worst.

      It isn’t that unusual to vote for entirely negative reasons though. That happens a lot and can be quite brutal — look at the plight of Swinson and the Lib-Dems just a few years ago, one minute they were talking about forming a government, the next they were queuing up at the dole office.

      When things go in that direction, politics gets very interesting. Nobody can rule out the same thing happening to Sturgeon and the SNP. Is there anybody here that would say they don’t deserve it? Not me.

    18. Colin the keelie says:

      In 2019, in many seats in the Central Belt, like mine, Labour came second.

      At this point in time, with the SNP being as Unionist as Labour, I can’t rule out voting Labour as a tactical vote to try and unseat my SNP MP and so punish the SNP financially.

      Fewer MPs mean less UK Short Money and MP funds going to SNP central office.

      Of course, if Alba had a candidate I would vote Alba.

    19. Dan says:

      @ auld highlander

      It’s only 66% percent of your life lived under Tory rule because yon calculator is only coded for Blue Tory, and doesn’t incorporate and include Red or Yellow Tory rule as the other twa cheeks of the three cheeked arse that are UK political Parties.
      Nae wonder it’s so shit in the UK with aw the extra shite being produced by that Scaramanga third nipplelike arsehole nestled in the extra butt crack…

    20. North chiel says:

      So the Tories have probably deliberately “ engineered” another financial crisis & in all probability property “ downturn ?” next year . Was the proposed tax cuts for the rich ( Tories) to fund the purchase of “ bank repossessed “ properties next year . ( the Tories have “ form” on this )(previous record price hikes in interest rates and subsequent property crashes) . Thereafter, of course the Tories will “ lose” the election and “ allow” the British establishment 2nd eleven government to have to pick up the pieces( not) with waves of Public sector strikes
      In the pipeline and possibly even an International Monetary Fund “ bail out” down the line . Truss has been selected by the hierarchy to be the “ fall guy” and as usual she will have been given “ her orders” . This has been going on for decades under Westminster “ rule” and as usual Scotland has to suffer as the Britnat treasury helps themselves to our resources .
      “ Aye better together “ ( as usual )

    21. Vivian O’Blivion says:

      Dugdale may be a “comedy moron”, but she’s an extremely well remunerated comedy moron. Salary as Director, John Smith Centre for Public Service, unknown but believed to have transferred her MSP salary of £64k when started in 2019.
      Newly appointed Professor of Practice in Public Service, University of Glasgow, starting band £65.4k. A “no show” position for which she is entirely unqualified.
      Weekly column in the Courier, unknown.
      Eight paid, guest columns so far this year in The Times.
      The last three income streams are additional recompense for being a de facto MI5 officer.
      Comfortably north of £150 p.a..

    22. Morag says:

      I was at the women’s demo at Holyrood today. If you had told me say 10 years ago that in 2022 I’d be demonstrating outside the Scottish parliament against something being proposed by an SNP government, booing Nicola Sturgeon’s name and applauding Johann Lamont, I’d have thought you’d been on the happy dust.

    23. North chiel says:

      Ps further to my earlier post , of course Sturgeon under control of security service handlers/ advisers being “ fed a load of guff” about the imminent collapse of the whole western world if Scotland were to gain independence

    24. twathater says:

      Another great article Stuart highlighting what we on here already know , that ALL the mainstream political parties are not only scraping the bottom of the barrel when it comes to selecting and appointing their candidates for election but they are literally through the bottom of the barrel and quite a way into the SHITE and OFFAL that has seeped it’s way into the ground

      TBQH on the infrequent occasions that I can FORCE myself to look into holyrood on TV I am gripped with a feeling of revulsion that Scots are so fucking stupid that we even vote for these moronic scum , the moronic scum of ALL parties , we desperately need a revolution

    25. sarah says:

      @ Morag: “..at women’s demo…booing Nicola Sturgeon, applauding Johann Lamont..”

      It’s tragic and enraging what the SNP has become. And I don’t hold out much hope of the membership seeing the light any time soon.

      Mind you, David Henry was hinting recently that a TV channel plan is in the pipeline, albeit will require loads of funding. It can’t come too soon as otherwise the MSM will be able to continue keeping the existence of Alba, ISP, Salvo and the Edinburgh Declaration a secret.

    26. Geri says:

      A drastic pay cut would soon end that farce.

      It’s money for turning up with a spiel for the telly. Then it’s off tae the pub.

    27. Geri says:

      Looking back, Salmond did warn us they were all next to fking useless when he came back the 2nd time to challenge for the leadership.
      Reading between the lines..

      Swinney – you made an arse of that eh? Fkn do one!
      Sturgeon – sit the fook doon, hen, you a leader? Nae chance. I’ll give ye deputy dug, that’s yer level.
      Blackford – who the fk are you?
      Russel – grow a pair FFS!

      I’ll show you how it’s done. Majority + indyref + infinitely better services *deliberately* Show the Scots we’d be great at indy even before we are..
      Salmond left & they reverted back to mediocre type..

    28. Republicofscotland says:

      Sarwar, is desperately trying to push Labour in Scotland hoping to get a bounce from Starmer’s conference where they had much to berate the Tories on. Labour had their chance in Scotland, and now the public don’t want them back in power in Scotland.

      Meanwhile STV news reporting that there could be power blackout in Scotland come this Winter for up to three hours, Scotland produces more than enough energy for its people, so why would we need to suffer possible blackouts.

    29. Geri says:

      Same reason as always. We’re the lab experiment.

      What do we need electricity for? We’re all layabouts. Don’t we still use candles anyway?

      They’re the only ones that work & besides, anyone who doesn’t earn £150k & above deserves to suffer or fk off. They should’ve tried harder to be a Tory.

    30. Saffron Robe says:

      “We know from history that 50 Scottish Labour MPs at Westminster are at least as worthless as 50 SNP ones…”

      “A “change” to another neoliberal, anti-independence, anti-trade-union and pro-Brexit party is no change at all.”

      Excellent article, Stuart. I agree with every word. The sentence above could equally apply to the SNP though, since they have done nothing to progress independence and nothing to prevent Brexit!

    31. PacMan says:

      North chiel

      As well as that, the Tories are negotiating with Norway and the US for 20 year contracts that could result in us paying through the nose for gas for a generation:

      https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-10-04/uk-is-in-talks-with-norway-over-gas-contract-to-avoid-blackouts

      The UK is on the cusp of securing a natural-gas contract with Norway for as long as 20 years in a bid to stave off the risk of winter blackouts, people familiar with the matter said.

      A deal is expected to be secured next week, though ministers are still locked in negotiations with their Norwegian counterparts on price, the amount of gas and the length of the contract, according to one of the people, who asked not to be named discussing sensitive matters.

      Because of the length of contract under discussion, there’s a risk that locking in long-term arrangements now might leave the UK paying above-market prices in years to come since the current volatility gives producers considerable leverage. The business department didn’t immediately respond to a request for comment


      The UK is also in discussions with US liquefied natural gas producers for supply contracts as long as 20 years, Bloomberg reported last month. The government’s energy task force that’s leading negotiations on new gas deals is headed by Madelaine McTernan, a former M&A banker who headed the UK’s vaccine group that procured Covid shots during the pandemic.

    32. solarflare says:

      The SNP are fucking hopeless, but it’s good of the Tories and Labour to provide continual reminders that they’re – somehow – even worse.

    33. Ebok says:

      twathater says:
      6 October, 2022 at 5:50 pm

      ‘I am gripped with a feeling of revulsion that Scots are so fucking stupid that we even vote for these moronic scum’

      The title of Stu’s piece could be applied to the whole of Scotland, not just to Sarwar and Slab.
      I doubt that 5% of the electorate could name their MSP or MP. Voters are simply voting for political parties, the party who claim to represent the brand they align with.

      Perhaps the political earthquake that needs to occur is now underway, but wherever this winter leads us, Alba won’t be able to capitalise judging by the graphs above showing that support for the collective ‘others’, which includes Alba, has gone down 33%: –
      Others 2% (-1%).

    34. Geri says:

      Why doesn’t Scotland do what the Irish did & harness the overseas contingent for funding a credible, no nonsense party?

      Canada. Australia..

      Tartan day had presidential recognition in the US. We missed the baw there.

      At the moment we have a pub football team trying to play in the champions League of big donations.

    35. Effijy says:

      Labour celebrating that they can supply the big Westminster lies that can fool the Scottish Electorate into another 5 years of England first and colonies are there only to serve.

      Scottish Westminster votes are completely useless for delivering anything Scotland wants or needs. Even if SNP seats held the power to make a coalition there are no English Parties who would consider it for one moment.

      Maybe Nicola could trade our right to vote for some beads, mirrors and fire water,
      Oh and pensions for her dipped up colleagues.

    36. Nally Anders says:

      Morag @5.26pm
      It is so much worse. Today I was forced to speak to a Tory MP and conlude.
      Her Asian mother was forced to break her religionous vows by accepting ‘male touch’ in a health care setting. Cross dresser who claimed to be a ‘woman’.
      Just the same as women prisoners are expected to endure state sanctioned rape by accepting male prisoners in female prisons in Scotland.
      FFS. What has gone wrong in Scotland, the seat of enlightenment?
      The Scottish Nonce Party is at the heart of this but Labour & Greens are in collusion. Beyond angry- Scottish Politicians. They don’t give a flying Fck for Scottish women.
      51% of the voting public, we will not forget.

    37. John Main says:

      The BBC was reporting today that of the 44 European countries meeting now in Prague, the UK comes second in the table of energy provision resilience for the coming winter.

      The number one spot is held by Norway.

      Assuming the BBC speaks truth, it is interesting to consider where Scotland would be placed as an independent country.

      Would there be a new number one?

      I am sure there would be no hard feelings from the Norwegians.

    38. Dan says:

      @ John Main

      C’mon, you’ve seen plenty stats posted here on Scotland’s various energy resources. Just yesterday I posted this.

      https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-neverending-mandate/comment-page-2/#comment-2706277

      The BBC will never highlight that sort of information to the masses.
      But as you mention Norway and gas. Here’s the live data. Note that the largest single flow is Easington Langeled pipeline which is from Norway. Which is around the equivalent amount of the 3 lines coming into St Fergus in Scotland.

      https://mip-prd-web.azurewebsites.net/InstantaneousView

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Langeled_pipeline

    39. Ruby says:

      Geri says:

      Anyway. Maybe Ruby wants Wings to have a ‘Whits fir tea?’ thread in the basket weaving section? ?

      Spot the sexist! No Geri I have no interest in basket weaving or ‘Whits fir tea’ I am interested in woman’s rights but that never seems to spark much interest here on Wings. I suppose that might be because there are almost no women posting on Wings.

      You could almost say Wings is a single sex space!

    40. Benhope says:

      The SNP conference is due to start on Saturday. The members no longer have any input into any of the motions discussed and all democracy has long been erased from proceedings. The NEC is full of woke special interest individuals specially selected by the inner Murrel cabal.

      If there are any independent minded members left in the SNP, could we possibly encourage some heckling of those untouchable Mps, MSPs and the Britnat herself. Words that come to mind are useless, betrayer and tra8tor but I am sure you can come up with many more.

    41. Kcor says:

      “Independence is stone dead”

      And it was the SNP’s Sturgeon who killed it.

      The biggest betrayer in Scottish history.

    42. Rab Davis says:

      Kcor. 12.34am

      Spot on Kcor.

      The bastard can’t be allowed to just up sticks and walk away from this car crash.

      She has to pay for this,, because she has destroyed so many hopes of people who have sacrificed their whole lives fighting for Scottish independence.

      And this reprobate steps in and crushes their dreams.

      A life sentence in jail would be too good for Sturgeon.

    43. Iain More says:

      Labour Party in Scotland still taking the English coin and worse its orders from Anti Scottish bigots in London. Not just cursed by stupidity but cursed by Quislings.

    44. gregor says:

      BBC (06/10/2022): JK Rowling backs protest over Scottish gender bill:

      “Author JK Rowling has supported a protest rally by wearing a T-shirt calling Scotland’s first minister a “destroyer of women’s rights”.

      The author tweeted a picture of herself as demonstrators gathered outside the Scottish Parliament in Edinburgh.

      Hundreds of people protested against gender recognition legislation proposed by the Scottish government…”:

      https://archive.ph/blGbI

    45. North chiel says:

      “ Good morning Britannia’s “ Kate desperately trying to set up a “ chummy “ meeting between Truss & Sturgeon . Why doesn’t Sturgeon unequivocally tell Mogg & Truss to get there thieving paws off Scotland’s natural resources. End off .

    46. Hatuey says:

      To tell the truth, I feel less represented today than I did during the boring Labour years. And I’d say the UK government disregards Scotland more than it ever did; the combo of devolution and Nicola has worked out very well for them.

      The Scottish people — is it still okay to describe ourselves as “Scottish people”? — have never been so easily and systematically ignored.

      The Supreme Court / Plebiscitary Election stunt served its purpose. It distracted people from the grim reality of Scotland’s predicament. But that little shaft of light is going to disappear soon, leaving nothing but darkness.

      It’s embarrassing to consider what the rest of the world must think of us. Hopefully they’ll give us the benefit of the doubt and assume we are a bunch of simpletons… Scottish bravery is famous, after all.

      Who was it that said we were better writers than fighters? I’d rather be a good fighter; a good fighter can write anything he likes.

    47. Fionan says:

      Rab Davies, I agree – NS had no right to take our work and our dreams over many decades and just destroy them within a mere 7years. Prison among lots of trans’women’ would be divine retribution for her betrayal and theft of our rights. And I see Cherry is another ("Tractor" - Ed) now fully behind the nusnp, telling us in the snp rag that there will be lots of interest re indy to discuss at the nusnp conference – as if NS will permit that!

      OT On another note, I had someone from the electoral registration crew at my door as I hadnt completed the voter registration form for this year. I told her I found their lie about ‘british’ nationality to be highly offensive and a breach of my human right to have my true identity as a Scottish national recognised. As this enforcement of british ‘nationality’ is a breach of human rights it must surely be illegal under international law. Surely this could and should be fought in the international courts? She told me she could put Scottish in brackets beside the ‘british nationality’ but that just is not good enough! I am so angry about all these online menus which constantly deny me my human right to identify as my own Scottish nationality. These should have been fought as the internet developed. No wonder our children and grandchildren are all becoming ‘british’.

      Ruby, there would be more commenters, male and female both, on this btl if there wasnt the constant inane, repetitive and utterly boring threesome of insults and aggression passing as ‘dsicussion’ between you, Ellis and Boyle, with one or two of Eliss’s mates joining in from time to time, clogging up the btl. Of course this is likely the effect aimed fr by Ellis and co, but you are the one sustaining that bourach by involving yourself with it. Occasionally you post something of interest,which gets drowned out by the playground bickering. By the time readers have scrolled past the constant drivel from the three of you, there are few comments left of any interest or value and any wish to comment has probably been bored out of readers, or forgotten in the constant disruption.
      ” oh wad some pow’r the giftie gie us, tae see oorsel’s as ithers see us” and all that.

    48. stuart mctavish says:

      Big question must be whether we/they are genuinely cursed by stupidity or if its being done deliberately.

      eg Good example might be the rent cap bill that passed yesterday – in flagrant breach of article 18 (common trade laws) of the treaty of union.

      At first sight the bill might be what it claims to be (temporary protection for tenants during a period of economic turmoil and debasement of the coin of the realm).

      However, since there ought to be far more appropriate remedy available under article 15 (economics of balancing taxation), an alternative explanation could be that it is a device to clamp down on corporate tax avoidance of the type that encourages renting property back to its owner (ie at extortionate rates) .. and since all such taxes payable currently go to England’s account for cooking into Barnet formulae etc, and since it would thus result in a net flow of wealth to England, from Scotland, the rent cap legislation, in and of itself, may constitute a far greater breach of the spirit of the treaty than the simple breach of article 18 might imply..

      Accordingly, even if the Supreme Court does attempt to give itself standing in the matter of the Scottish Parliament’s intent to hold a referendum, ie on basis it wriggles out of breaching article 19 (judiciaries to remain separate) by declaring Holyrood a subsidiary of Westminster, FM as subrdinate to PM, Scots voters as subordinate to English voters, or somesuch etc, the game is at serious risk of becoming a bogey on the legal/ reason/ agreement side regardless – without which there can be nothing (foolish dictatorships notwithsatanding).

    49. Ruby says:

      https://archive.ph/DfiII

      Sturgeon self-id’s as a feminist.

      “And I say this as a feminist, a passionate, lifelong feminist, I’ve spent much of my life campaigning for women’s rights.”

      Aye right! like you’ve spent much of your life campaigning for independence.

      You’ve got to be very naive to believe this shit!

      Nicola Sturgeon destroyer of women’s rights

      The huge problem for the independence movement is how to keep Nicola Sturgeon ‘destroyer of women’s rights’ away from the independence campaign.

      There is also the problem of Craig Murray who seems to be supporting Sturgeon on this issue.

      It’s a huge problem for the independence movement.

      https://tinyurl.com/bdh226z9

      Sturgeon would be happy to see this man teaching your children woodwork.

      If nothing else surely there is an issue of safety using a circular saw with those gigantic plastic boobs
      attached to your chest.

      Women agree with JK Rowling and not Sturgeon destroyer of women’s rights.
      That is a problem for the independence movement because last time around JK Rowling was a big supporter of the Union.

    50. Lenny Hartley says:

      Dont think it will matter one bit, when the Saudi’s ditch the USD as Petro Currency and move to the new commodities based Russian/chinese Brics reserve currency the Neo Cons in the USA will go Defcon 1.
      The good news is that the cockroaches will have plenty of Rice to munch on!
      The Planet will survive and rejoice that the stupid irritant has at last wiped itself out.

      For those going to Freedom Square tomorrow have a good get together,
      With the stress of travelling or more often than not, not travelling Cal-Mac and a Train Strike have decided to stay on Arran.

    51. auld highlander says:

      Brian Cox venting his spleen on question time last night.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhOCfmYMS7k

    52. Ruby says:

      Fionan says:

      Ellis and Boyle, with one or two of Eliss’s mates joining in from time to time, clogging up the btl. Of course this is likely the effect aimed fr by Ellis and co, but you are the one sustaining that bourach by involving yourself with it

      Do you really think if I stopped responding Ellis & Co would go away?
      Sorry I refuse to take responsibility for your lack of posts on Wings.
      Cheers for saying I occasionally post something of interest.
      You on the other hand almost never post anything and when you do it usually includes a ‘flame bait’ which makes you no better than those you are criticising.

      Are you really suggesting I ignore your latest jibe and let your accusation that I am responsible for ‘sustaining that bourach’ btl on Wings go?

      You do know what flame-bait is don’t you Fionan?

    53. Ruby says:

      gregor says:
      7 October, 2022 at 7:53 am

      BBC (06/10/2022): JK Rowling backs protest over Scottish gender bill:

      “Author JK Rowling has supported a protest rally by wearing a T-shirt calling Scotland’s first minister a “destroyer of women’s rights”.

      The author tweeted a picture of herself as demonstrators gathered outside the Scottish Parliament in Edinburgh.

      Hundreds of people protested against gender recognition legislation proposed by the Scottish government…”:

      https://archive.ph/blGbI

      What are your views on that gregor?
      Do you comment or just confine yourself to posting links?

      Would you be prepared to wear a tee-shirt like Rowlings?

    54. Rab Davis says:

      Ruby///Fionan

      Not even Sturgeon will last forever.

      That is the only sure thing in this whole sorry nightmare we are collectively going through.

      Women’s rights will be reinstated AND a leader who believes in Scottish independence revive the YES Movement.

      Sooner rather than later.

      If you dug deep into why people actually vote SNP at the moment,,, you’d probably find it’s more to do with free prescriptions and other such freebies than Scottish Independence.

    55. Ruby says:

      Fionan says:

      Ruby, there would be more commenters, male and female both, on this btl if there wasnt the constant inane, repetitive and utterly boring threesome of insults and aggression passing as ‘dsicussion’ between you, Ellis and Boyle, with one or two of Eliss’s mates joining in from time to time, clogging up the btl.

      Wings is like a pub-The Olde Wings Tavern

      I have two questions:

      What does ‘clogging up the btl’ actually mean?
      What passes as a discussion on Wings?

      Does ‘clogging up the btl’ mean you are posting ‘off topic’
      I could understand that if there was a single topic being discussed here on Wings. There are always at least 20 different topics being ‘discussed’

      Does posting about 20 different topics all at once constitute a discussion?

      I can’t see how that can work.

      Criticising ‘clogging up the btl’ is like criticising a bookshop for ‘clogging up the shelves’ with books.

      Not too sure the ‘btl on Wings’ is like a bookshop perhaps more like a pub where can you join in on any of the many different topics being ‘discussed’ your choice.

      Like any good pub Wings has the old bodachs in the corner ranting on all day every day about their favourite topics and a variety of different people discussing a variety of different topics and often it ends up in a heating argument and sometimes fisticuffs which caused these posters customers to get chucked out and maybe even banned for life.

      There could a very entertaining story called ‘The Olde Wings Tavern’ inspired by the posters on Wings.
      So many inspirational characters here on Wings that I’m going to go now and write down all my ideas before I forget.

    56. Ruby says:

      Rab Davis says:
      7 October, 2022 at 12:13 pm

      Women’s rights will be reinstated AND a leader who believes in Scottish independence revive the YES Movement.


      Cheers Rab! You’ve cheered me up.

      Some things in life are bad
      They can really make you mad
      Other things just make you swear and curse
      When you’re chewing on life’s gristle
      Don’t grumble, give a whistle
      And this’ll help things turn out for the best
      And
      Always look on the bright side of life
      Always look on the light side of life

    57. James Che says:

      The tunnel you are given.

      People in Scot-land. Are fed enough shi.t to direct their thoughts, enough guidance from down south to miss what is really important to us as a nation,
      Enough to feed our anger towards bubble thinking.

      Every party that has not protested without loud demonstration and opposition for all to see, that has allowed trans issues in Scotland and England to be forewardedly promoted while guilty of inhumane treatment and transgression towards woman and children..is at fault,

      All parties are indeed equal in Scotland, non of them can tell you what a woman is or stand strong to protect this large section group in Britain,

      When a government interferes in the rights of the family, of children, of women, to create a system of second and third class citizens with very no rights,
      Where the Sane man wants to protect his family, but is prevented from doing so by legislation passed on the freedom of their free speech.

      All that is left are voice’s of trans women, men whom like to abuse children, and men whom like to abuse women, and men whom may have a free pass in future for people trafficking.

      At the same time in English politics we find Keir Starmer head of the Labour party pretending he cannot identify what a woman is,

      This is not just Snp policy, it is Labour, Tories and Snp policy,
      This abuse of women and children and…… shutting up the mouths of honest family men by legislation has been able to achieve a pass across britain from all parties.

      When the blinkers are taken away in Scot-land from the just the snp mantra we see it is a pandemic across all parties,
      Across Scot-Land and Across England.

      We see it in the devolved English legislated government to Scot-Land and through out the English government in England.

      When the blinkers come off,

      We have to ask whom is running the Land of the Scots if these policies are the same as Englands.
      If English politicians are weaving the same politics as Scots-land.

      Where does the Scottish devolved governments territorial borders end or begin, are they actually one and the same as Englands laws and policies?

      Do we go down in the great Britania sinking ship with like minded politics? With like minded economic disasters?

      The small narrow tunnel we are fed that if we get to rid of the SNP, the sinking ship will suddenly right itself,
      We will still Have the other parties that think the same as the Snp sitting in the devolved government running Scot-land.

      Changing political leaders in Scot-land will not change the devolved english policies entering through the back door,

      Its the Systems of politics imposed upon us that has to change.

    58. Geri says:

      North Chiel

      Because it’s reserved. & the twat with 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8+ mandates hasn’t sought to change it.

      Ruby,

      I think we can safely predict a stampede of *new Scots* in our not to distant future. Pack a dress, Betty- sue! We’re moving to Scotland!

      Ellis will be over the moon. More new Scots to fuck up & outvote the *nativists*

    59. James Che says:

      From now on one of the simple changes in speech that is not yet banned is to call Scotland, Scots-land.

    60. Geri says:

      James Che

      Do you think this pish will even get off the ground in Englandshire? I don’t.

      Its mission was to derail indy. Let the Scots be the laboratory. Make them look like fkn eejits to the outside world. Let them pass it, they’re stupid enough, & let all our Betty-sue problems flow to our Northern territory, Scotland. Let them live there.

      & Truss has spoken. Transwoman are not women & she’s changing nothing other than the fee.

      Well done Sturgeon. The ever outmanoeuvred fuckwit that fell hook, line & sinker – yet again.

    61. James Che says:

      Be proud of your nation, be proud you are Sovereignty ,
      be proud that you have a alternative laws and law systems ,
      Be proud that you have you’re own education system

      Be proud that you are a recognised Country, be proud that you have territorial borders to Scotland.
      Be proud you still have marine borders.
      Be proud you have your own resources,

      Be proud of living in Scots-Land.
      Be proud of who you are, and where you are.
      And let the people in Scots land take back control of their lands, their laws and the systems.

    62. James Che says:

      Geri,

      Its already started in english political party interviews on tv, that why I knew about it.

      But the same is happening in Canada, France, America, etc

      So not a restricted snp policy.

      So who is running Scotland?

    63. Merganser says:

      Rab Davis @ 12.13 says: ‘if you dug…’

      You are so right. By voting for the SNP, many Scottish people are not voting for independence. They are voting against Labour who had lost their trust, and against the Conservatives for any number of reasons. The SNP are the least worst option, and have bribed the voters with perceived freebies. (They do of course have to be paid for somehow.)

      This explains why the SNP seems popular and wins elections, but the polls over the years always show a majority against independence. Their ‘popularity’ is not founded on the pursuit of independence, as many of their supporters would claim. It’s just that there is nothing better to choose from – until recently.

      It’s been a nice little earner for Sturgeon, Mr. Murrell, humble crofters, and all the other troughers who have strung people along for the last 8 years

    64. Geri says:

      My reply is awaiting moderation. Maybe I should’ve replied London?

    65. James Che says:

      The problem in Scotland is that the people in Scotland are not fully aware of the larger picture of political politics.
      They are deliberately fed a narrow view of politics relating only to the Snp.
      The snp are globalist though in their policies, they are acting and implementing global politics. As is England, America, Germany, France, etc.

      The politicians of Westminster are implementing the same policies as the snp, swings and roundabouts whom does it first,
      But one thing is the same, The direction.

      The direction is to reduce the power of people and become policed by words, reduced to silent protests until eventually no protests are allowed,
      For migration issues across the globe, to terror attacks in public places on the public, to food store suddenly having burnt down, to world wide energy crises with the help of the same global climate change policies having a likewise detrimental effect on all nations, not just Scotland.

      Where governments lock people up for long periods of time without evidence or charge of a crime under newish health laws.

      I no longer perceive Scottish politics in inIsolation. But notice the world of politics working as a synchronised machine towards one end,

      Scotland is under the weaponisation of global political decisions, the Snp are merely puppets that can and will be replaced by a bigger power when their use has ended.
      There politics at the end of the day is the same as every other political party,
      Make the buck to fill their own pockets and gain a rung on the ego ladder of self esteem through down treading on the people on their way up.

      We as people should not set such a low bar of regime change of leaders in our Country,
      But consider the alternative of changing the regime system.

    66. Geri says:

      They vote SNP because rich wads never pay for stuff if they can avoid it.
      They’ll do in administration – they mitigate the bits they don’t like so they can enjoy the bits they do.

      Best of both worlds of the Union right enough.

      Indy vote never moves the needle because indy folks leave Scotland & SNP can’t build enough for for the ones moving in.

    67. Breeks says:

      I get it, that Sturgeon is condemned as the destroyer of women’s rights, but while I don’t wish to sound like a misogynist, she colluded with her pals, (pals with very dodgy connections), and attempted to have an innocent man, a true statesman no less, stitched up, branded a sex offender and sent to prison, probably for the rest of his life.

      Granted, women’s rights affects a lot more lives than one, and of course, women have had to battle hard for decades just to secure those rights, but when this conspiracy failed to jail the man they were after, they changed tack and jailed another man who’s written word threatened no ill to anybody except “perhaps” exposing a rancid conspiracy in the process of perverting the course of justice.

      Why aren’t the police investigating that gross and determined attempt to pervert the course of justice?

      I noted after two years faffing about they’ve dropped the investigation into Murrell’s perjury, but there were others baring false witness, lying through their teeth, but then allowed to alter their testimony when confronted with evidence of their bullshit.

      Don’t get me wrong. If Sturgeon could be sacked for not paying a parking fine, I’d be right behind the motion.

      Destroying women’s rights is politically misguided, damaging, and very deeply so, but stitching up a man on criminal sex charges is surely full on criminal activity, misconduct that you don’t vote out office, you place under arrest and then put on trial for what she attempted to do.

      This criminal rogue in heels lives a charmed life indeed if her fate is to be decided by the ballot box, not the jury box.

    68. Republicofscotland says:

      So MSPs are blowing their trumpet at this.

      “Holyrood has passed legislation to freeze rents and ban evictions for most tenants for at least 6 months and potentially 18, alarming landlords. MSPs voted by 89 to 27 in favour of the ‘Cost of Living (Tenant Protection) Scotland’ Bill, after three days of debate.”

      Apparently, a caveat exists that if a landlord can show hardship due to a mortgage increase on a property-they are then exempt.

      Yet the SNP MSPs and Greens sided with the Tories to block the asking of this question the other day.

      “They rejected calls- by 93 votes to 22 -to confirm if King Charles asked for changes to the Scottish rent freeze bill that could affect tenancies on his Highland estate. Calls to disclose whether the King used his opaque powers, ‘crown consent,’ are now muted.”

    69. Republicofscotland says:

      “The treaty of Union is clear: A “Westminster Hall” court cannot overrule the highest court in Scotland.”

      If so, there can be only one reason why the Lord Advocate Bain (a unionist) deferred to the UKSC, and that is to buy time, time for what must be the question.

      https://yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com/2022/10/07/mia-puts-fuel-on-the-fire-of-the-supreme-court-farce/

    70. Republicofscotland says:

      Meanwhile Sturgeon the betrayer of Scots has been making a lot of noise on the indyfront, producing more heat than light in the process.

      “THE First Minister has said she does not want to be in the position of fighting a General Election on the sole issue of independence in the event the Supreme Court blocks indyref2.”

      https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thenational.scot%2Fnews%2F23030157.nicola-sturgeon-says-doesnt-want-fight-next-uk-election-independence-unless-must%2F

    71. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Breeks (3.21) –

      You’re not the only one who wants to see her in prison eventually.

      We must have discussed this way before now but what is the state of play as and when she resigns or is hoofed? Is she then susceptible to private prosecution by, say, Alex S, Craig M, Mark H and/or others, perhaps folk with claims of wrongful/constructive dismissal etc?

      Could this help explain why she’s clinging on despite trending on social media virtually every week for reasons which have hee-haw to do with independence?

    72. James Che says:

      Under suspicion I noticed that globalist are requiring a regime change in Scotland of the Snp,

      Obviously the NuSNP have served their purpose in bringing in global policies to Scotland and now their sell by date is up, the regime change in Scotland has to take place as it was enforced after AS left, a man that did not conform to all global politics.

      The fear for globalist is not to allow the background funding, MSM help and leadership to the NuSNP to continue to far, it would be wrong to let them gain total power and lose control of the NuSnp should any one break ranks,

      As we can see from recent history, when they do they are publicly outed in attempts to imprison or sent to prison by the globalist Snp commanders.

      The only job left unfinished by the Nu Snp before going is to command all the independence groups of Scottish people under one umberella for easier control, for legislation to take over the groups by demanding a set code of conduct for the ” yes” for a independent Scotland.

      So to manipulate by governance of legislation of the devolved government.
      How many ways do the devolved government want to get their hands on your Sovereignty would be a good question?

      The propaganda machine is already preparing the independence movement towards a home goal for the Snp’s control under the codeof conduct.

      However after the regime change of the Snp, it will be the devolved government that is left in control of the code of conduct of the independence movement, remember that,

      This is why it is wise for us to be fully aware of entrapments by stealth of the devolved government. Under the auspices of the Westminster crown laws in the scottish government.

      And Snp and labour in their attempts at owning the sovereignty of the Scottish nation through legislation of the devolved government code of conduct are trying hard right now in working together along with tories to close the trap on independence.

      We need to envisage a bigger picture, the pieces of the bigger puzzle, bigger plans than us just being encouraged in getting rid of the Snp,

      The paid for by globalists NuSNP do have to go.

      But will the globalist and MSM pull the plug on the SNP before or after they have control of the independence movement through new laws and legislation one wonders?

    73. Willie John says:

      “Cursed-by-stupidity”? Really?

      I would have thought that there would need to be an iota of intelligence available before it could be cursed!

    74. Republicofscotland says:

      Sturgeon the betrayer on the radio this morning making lots of noises on how she’s a feminist, I wonder what she made of this.

      “Isabelle Kerr, retired manager of Glasgow Rape Crisis.
      Hounded out because she believes that women need female only services.”

      https://twitter.com/Susanshox/status/1577981200182005761?cxt=HHwWgsC-sdDijuYrAAAA

    75. Republicofscotland says:

      BT staff are striking looking for a pay rise and so they should.

      Meanwhile at the top.

      “BT CEO Philip Jansen gets £3.5M pa and gave himself a 32% pay-rise.”

      This is the kind of guy that Liz Truss wanted to give a tax break to, in her UK, rampant, unfettered capitalism is the way forward.

      https://twitter.com/ElRaynerista/status/1577915685782671360?cxt=HHwWgMC-iZj98OUrAAAA

    76. North chiel says:

      “ Geri days at 1250 pm “ , precisely Geri !

    77. Ruby says:

      Geri says:
      Ruby,
      I think we can safely predict a stampede of *new Scots* in our not to distant future. Pack a dress, Betty- sue! We’re moving to Scotland!

      I read that Geri. There could be some serious issue from the SNHS if that is the case.

      It seems Westminster is very concerned about this and there were suggestions that a Scottish GRC would not be recognised by the UK passport office.

      Your post that is in moderation will be there forever. You have to find out what word triggered moderation and re-post without that word.

    78. Robert Hughes says:

      “THE First Minister has said she does not want to be in the position of fighting a General Election on the sole issue of independence in the event the Supreme Court blocks indyref2.”

      WTF is the pish about a Plebiscite Election about then ?

      This was/is always going to be the problem with trying to turn a UKGE into a Plebiscite on Independence – well , one of the problems . Unionists simply won´t consider it as such and the Britglish State will certainly not acknowledge any SNP * victory * as inarguable grounds to ” grant ” a S30 : even less as de facto Independence . The idea they can be ” bent to the will of the Scottish people ” by such a * victory * is risible .

      The only way a PE could have any value is one initiated by Holyrood , unrelated to a UKGE .

      My suspicion is the reason Sturgeon is putting all this insultingly stupid , contradictory , feeble garbage out is because she knows the ” situation in the East ” is going to escalate – if not into all-out Nuclear War ( though , given the lunatics in and around the White House , it could ) – then into a State of Emergency which she´ll be able to use to * defer * anything to do with Independence .

      In other words …..continue what she´s been doing for 8 years , but with ” justifiable ” reason

    79. Ruby says:

      Breeks says:
      7 October, 2022 at 3:21 pm

      I get it, that Sturgeon is condemned as the destroyer of women’s rights, but while I don’t wish to sound like a misogynist

      That is ridiculous why would you be worried about sounding like a misogynist? Do you think all women are innocent victims and that we are some sort of protected species who cannot be criticised.
      I suppose it’s a bit similar to being worried about criticising someone from a different race for fear of being labelled a racist. See Grooming Gangs.

    80. James Che says:

      Breeks,

      First they come after your children. Through education.
      Then they come after the women, who are the obvious protecters of children.
      Then they come after the men, whom will protect women and children.

      All three of these stages have now and are being implemented in Scotland.

      Do not see men, Women and children separately.

      They all belong to the family unit,
      The family units are the foundations of a community.
      The community is the culture and nationality of your country.

      You attack either one and the foundation of your countries nation falls.

      It is sad that men are only just realising that they are now the present target of government control,

      But the other two were attacked first,

      Now that men are being falsely attacked, their eyes are opening to those that went before…..
      Perhaps when it is to late they will realise the attacks on women and children were meant to separate them from a family unit,
      From the bigger community of feeling like a family member and together,

      Much the same was developed, causing people to become separated all day from their families by suddenly having to travel miles or stay away from home which seriously started in the 70s 80s and 90s.
      The same procedure was used on the older generation whom at one time used to sit outside their doors, chatting, to each other or passers by, sewing, mending, whittling or singing old songs were suddenly whisked away from the community to day care centres.

      As were children under school age to nursery centres.

      Shops and pubs where people gathered are being removed,

      The separation of communities and families has been so slow a political british kind of policy, it has hardly been noticed by families whom were to busy.

      Now the assault on families and group communities is more direct and threatens freedoms of speech and freedoms of safety, and freedoms of choice,
      It has been a slow policy recently speeded up.

    81. Ruby says:

      Ooops sorry typo should read

      I read that Geri. There could be some serious issues for the SNHS if that is the case.

      Basically if every so called transgender person comes to live in Scotland there could be a huge waiting list for surgeries, huge cost for drugs ie testosterone & HRT.
      Huge influx of men in so called women only spaces/prisons & woodwork teachers wearing gigantic plastic boobs.
      Huge influx of ‘women’ stealing our men & jobs.

      I’m wondering if all you guys are up for getting a set of these plastic boobs like the the Canadian woodwork teachers along with a triple XXX sized tee shirt like JK Rawlings.

      You can get it here:

      https://jumbershirt.com/product/koa-nicola-sturgeon-destroyer-of-womens-rights-t-shirt/

      It comes in all different colours & sizes.

      It even comes in 5XL. That would give you room for

      https://tinyurl.com/586th4kf

      Heavy boots might be recommended if you decide on helium boobs.

      I’m sure the more scientific posters will be able to advise on the safe amount of helium to stuff under your new tee shirt.

      I can’t be bothered checking for typos. I wish Stu would give us

      1. An edit function
      2. An Scottish English spell check. Y’all know I am not American and that I need all the help I can get with spelling and all that shit.

    82. Shug says:

      If I was labour and I went from 1 seat to 6 I would say it was the great turn around and the people are no longer interested in indy

    83. James Che says:

      A well thought out and constructive piece of writing by Mia.
      As many commenters mentioned breaches to the treaty of the union through having the supreme court in the first instance.

      It always reminds us of how many are aware in Scotland of the numerous breaches that Westminster has made and how little has been done to remedy this as even a after thought.

      Mia, as I have difficulty with dyslexia perhaps one day in you’re eloquent writings you too will ask

      Did the English parliament enter into the new created British parliament, solely on its own?
      Due to not closing the English parliament session until 1708.

      Where as the English parliament and monarch Having requested the cancelation the Scottish parliament and members from the treaty of the union prior to the british parliaments opening.

    84. John Main says:

      I really wouldn’t read too much into the waning popularity of the SNP administration and NS, and the likely possibility of sweeping SLabour gains in the next spin of the merry-go-round.

      All over the world, the political incumbents who oversaw the Covid clusterfucks are on the same declining popularity trajectories.

      In most cases, it’s a combination of the dawning realisation of the post-Covid wreckage that has been bequeathed to the ordinary people, coupled with a growing suspicion that the entire shambles was a massive over-reaction to something that is now seen to be much the same as seasonal flu (actually, not as dangerous as seasonal flu, according to latest NHS guidelines).

      In functioning democracies, the natural response is to punish the incumbents at the ballot box.

      Apart from in Sweden, where they took a different course, were roundly castigated at the time for doing so, but are now enjoying the fruits of keeping their heads.

      But both in Scotland and England, the mass of largely uninterested voters are tired of seeing the same faces for far too many years now. It is time for a change, and for many millions of voters, it really is no more complicated than that.

    85. John Main says:

      @ Ruby says:7 October, 2022 at 4:59 pm

      “Huge influx of ‘women’ stealing our men & jobs”

      Jeezo, Ruby, you really do have a low opinion of Scottish men.

      If it’s any consolation to you, I don’t intend to be stolen by any of these new ‘women’.

    86. Republicofscotland says:

      Douglas Fraser on BBC Scotland news, saying that the North Sea has at least fifteen billion more barrels of oil to give up, on the day that Westminster issues one-hundred drilling licences, the thirty-third round of licence issues in the past fifty-years that England has been stealing Scottish oil and gas.

      Don’t forget that they hid the McCrone Report for decades because they knew if Scotland was in charge of its reserves it would’ve have had an embarrassment of wealth, that we could’ve invested in our country and its people. Westminster has been stealing our North Sea assets for fifty-years, and will continue to do so.

    87. James says:

      James Che @ 1:23 Can I have some of what you are smoking?

    88. Dan says:

      For those that say it’s all about the money. Jist howz that money doing continuing to be part of this Union. At what point remaining tied to the clustefuck of the UK with your money diminishing would taking other options be better a more prudent plan.

      http://robinmcalpine.org/a-coherent-plan-for-an-independent-scotland/

    89. Republicofscotland says:

      Phew! A lucky escape for Glasgow as Liverpool wins the right to host the political song contest on behalf of (404). I dreaded the prospect of my hometown being flooded with Banderites.

    90. Fionan says:

      Rab Davis says:
      7 October, 2022 at 12:13 pm

      “Women’s rights will be reinstated AND a leader who believes in Scottish independence revive the YES Movement”.

      I hope you are right, Rab, time is getting awfy short.

      Ruby what I mean by clogging up btl is the constant, utterly boring personal squabbles and insult throwing between you and the other two. The reason I addressed you in particular is solely because I believed you, at least, have somethin of a brain which should allow you to self-reflect and determine whether your part in the hate triangle is productive or not, i.e. you should have the brains to realise the negative impact of the petty playground squabbling the three of you indulge in, which is simply attention seeking – but no one really cares if one or other of you scores a hit with your insults and put downs. And ok, you have dragged me into your playground fest by replying. As for ‘blaming you’ for not posting more often, with or without ‘flamebait’, no, I am not blaming anyone, it isnt something to blame on others, it is simple personal choice not to waste energy on fools and clowns.

    91. John Main says:

      Republic breaks the taboo at comment #88.

      Proving, yet again, my claim that it is always the “usual suspects” that start it.

      In only a few words, a filthy lie bundled with a typical Wings BTL celebration of Scotland losing out.

      No positivity. No optimism. No vision. No hope. No future. Just relentless grinding celebration of things going wrong.

      Ah well, wait a few comments, and Republic will be back to wonder why support for Indy continues to be flat-lined at 45%.

    92. Ruby says:

      Eurovision: Next year’s song contest to be held in Liverpool, BBC announces

      Very good!

    93. Hatuey says:

      Fionan, I’m not sure if singling out Ruby and criticising her for criticising people is a sensible or fair thing to do. I’m only saying because I know you’re smart enough to appreciate that I’m totally brilliant and a brilliant person like me could only mean well…

    94. Geri says:

      Breeks –
      You’re not misogynist. she should have been forced to resign. She mishandled the complaints procedure that cost the taxpayers over £250k. That’s should’ve been reason enough to see her take the walk of shame & collected her belongings on the way out.
      I think ppl were looking for Evans head at the time. I dunno. Seems no one paid for that fk up – not even the Daily Rancid on who was feeding it.

      Ruby – I think I know now. Its the name of that other country we’re in a Union with. The post is still in moderation – is it a banned word?
      what I was replying to James Che ‘Who runs Scotland?’

      London does.

      Holyrood is thier parliament. Stuffed full of thier civil servants, tied to their Scotland Act, thier officials & thier plants reporting back to thier boss – the prime minister.

      Holyrood is only an admin to carry out thier duties. For a while there Sturgeon thought she was First Lady LOL & forgot her place. So did I for a while there..

      Only way out is for Scots to reconvene the real Scottish parliament that should never have closed its doors in the first place. Another violation was the EVEL rendering a GB parly London’s playground.

    95. Stoker says:

      Great to see a taster of the old times, Stuart. Great article! Another fact to add to all the facts in that article is that all those Red Tories quoted are already proven liars and this article confirms it yet again. Oh how i miss my regular supply of WOS factsheets (articles).
      __________

      100%Yes says on 6 October, 2022 at 1:55 pm
      “If the Supreme Court rules against the Indyref2 Chris Law wants us to give him another mandate to ask the UKG what is the route in which Scotland can leave the UK, he’s been in Westminster 8 yrs so why hasn’t he asked that question and why will it take another 5 yrs to get an answer?”

      Anyone giving the current load of Westminster SNP troughers their vote at the next general election for Westminster is giving them their approval. Approval for doing absolutely zero to advance us toward taking back our right of self-determination. A true indy leader would have us free of London by now, especially given all the chances and circumstances Skanky Sturgeon has squandered.

    96. Geri says:

      Repubicofscotland

      Phew! I don’t think I could’ve listened to the absolute wonderment we’re not still living in caves & would need chalk, a blackboard & an abacus to count votes LOL!

      Sit down UK, yer still nill points – would’ve been a hoot tho.

      John – we’re shite at everything. We can live without the running commentary between acts. Who watches it anyway? Its surely up there with cricket?

    97. Stoker says:

      The BBC News24 channel is repeatedly “BREAKING” news:

      “liverpool to host Eurovision…”

      And not another headline. Nothing else happening on planet earth, folks. That’s right, a city in a country that voted to leave the EU gets to hold one of its competitions. And to rub salt into the wounds, it beat a city in another country that voted to stay in the EU, Glasgow. Aye! It’s a funny old world, Sainty! That’s your “news”, folks, BBC style.

      Even more embarrassing is the fact the BBC in Scotland had this story in its No1 slot on their text page, ahead of more serious stories such as Truss ignoring Sturgeon and the story of all the new oil and gas exploration licences just issued by London. In fact, they only added the exploration licences story at 19:40 hrs tonight, long after the 6pm prime news slot.

      Love or loath Skanky Sturgeon, Truss ignoring the post of Scotland’s First Minister shows *exactly* what London thinks of Scotland – they want all Scotland’s resources, but they want fuck all to do with her folk. Always has and always will be that way.

    98. Republicofscotland says:

      Looks like Sturgeon’s fanzine the National newspaper could be in a wee bit of financial trouble. It could’ve been a great asset to the real indy movement, but instead it chose the SNP over the people.

      “THE National is launching a pay-what-you-can annual subscription deal to ensure Scots have access to the news that matters during the UK’s cost of living crisis.

      From today for a limited period, readers will be able to subscribe to a year’s worth of content from Scotland’s only pro-independence daily newspaper and pay only what they are able to.”

      https://www.thenational.scot/news/23032099.offering-year-long-subscription—price-can-afford/

    99. Breeks says:

      Ruby says:
      7 October, 2022 at 4:33 pm

      That is ridiculous why would you be worried about sounding like a misogynist? Do you think all women are innocent victims and that we are some sort of protected species who cannot be criticised…

      Because raising the plight of Alex Salmond in the context of Feminists enjoying publicity for attacking Sturgeon wasn’t meant to be chauvinist and steal their limelight, but it might have been perceived that way, and thus resemble misogyny.

      I fully support ForWomenScot, and J. K. Rowling’s teashirt, and while I think self ID will be a disaster, I just felt like making the point that Sturgeon has greater sins to answer for.

      If you want the full truth, my first reaction to J. K. Rowling’s picture was she looked very pale and thin, just skin and bone, and borderline the wrong side of skinny. I hope she isn’t ill or getting stressed out over dealing with trans lunatics.

      It might just be a poor photo in fairness, but just to be on the safe side, get some mince and tattles doon yer neck Ms Rowling.

    100. Republicofscotland says:

      A recommended read by George Monbiot and Peter Oborne, on shady think tanks that UK the government and the BBC do not question who secretly funds them and for what reasons.

      https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fcommentisfree%2F2022%2Foct%2F05%2Frightwing-thinktanks-government-bbc-news-programmes

    101. Republicofscotland says:

      A great tweet from Craig Murray.

      “So sorry to hear of the passing of the great Ian Hamilton.
      He once explained to me over dinner at Gordon Wilson’s that when he liberated the Stone of Scone from Westminster Abbey they lifted it with a harness developed for smuggling the transmission gear for Radio Free Scotland.”

      And the punchline.

      “Radio Free Scotland was illegal broadcasting and they flitted from tenement to tenement.

      Can you imagine the condemnation that the current SNP leadership would heap on such illegal behaviour and prototype cybernattery!”

    102. Geri says:

      Gotta love Mick Lynch to McTernan trying to glorify Blair’s legacy..

      ‘I seem to remember you lot were more into air strikes than you were workers strikes’ 😀

    103. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      As I see it, the problem that we, in the pro-indy movement, have is that the vast majority of “the ordinary people” switch off their receptors when anything they regard as “political” enters a conversation.

      What we need is around half a dozen “killer” phrases that pique their interest in listening further.

      The only one I can think of at the moment is…

      Scotland produces more electricity than we, as Scots, use. So, why should Scots be facing power cuts in this coming winter?

      Then, you can elaborate on the fact that the further electricity is generated from London, the more it costs for the generators to supply that electricity to the national grid. Then add a wee addendum that the generators around London are actually paid to generate electricity, not penalised, like the Scottish generators.

      I’m sure other literal contributors here could come up with some other “killers”…

    104. Geri says:

      I like Monbiot & follow Double Down news on YouTube. He’s been banging on a while now about that. Think tanks given prime slots on telly like they’re experts everyone should listen to.

    105. Effijy says:

      Sturgeon’s answers to Unionist reporters is pathetic.

      Which so many problems in the U.K. how can you justify going for independence?

      Nicola, the answer isn’t you being first minister voted on a manifesto.
      The answer is Scotland has been abused by Westminster for over 300 years.
      We have never been allowed to borrow but you say we have a share of £2.7 Trillion of debt.
      We are tarred by illegal wars and law breaking by Westminster.
      Indy ref 1 was won on the promise a No vote kept Scotland in the EU.
      We just had 10 years of needless austerity, 3 years of depression and now we go into another recession with the lights and heating off, little food on the table double digit inflation and mortgage rates going through the roof and you Mr Unionist interviewer seem to think we should stick with this government tat we have never voted for in 70 years!

      That is the answer Nicola. Fill yer boots!

    106. Geri says:

      Republic
      My Mam told us the story of the Stone. There was public angst amongst Scots (conditioned at the time) at who would do such a thing.. but in typical fashion that soon changed when they found it was one of our own LOL. Then it was jubilations & shouting at the man on the telly tae stop fecking greetin’ Its oors anyway – whit ye gonnie dae aboot it? Lol!

      An indy Scot will have the wicked four in statue. What a story that’ll live on forever.

    107. Stoker says:

      And once again Scotland is privileged to have London controlling our television for us. On a Friday night peak-viewing slots we get more live coverage of the England men’s football team taking on the USA this time.

      Brought to us on a channel that masquerades as various “Scottish” regions (ITV). Almost 3-hours of coverage. A match that is no more than an exhibition match at best.

      Billed as the current European Champions against the current World Champions. Wonder how many other countries allow their peak-time slots on their main channels to be constantly promoting their neighbours’ sporting endeavours?

    108. Ruby says:

      Geri says:

      Ruby – I think I know now. Its the name of that other country we’re in a Union with. The post is still in moderation – is it a banned word?

      England, Ireland, Wales.
      If this appears then then no that isn’t the word. Did up misspell the leader of Labour in Scotland’s christian name?

    109. Geri says:

      Stoker 8:27pm

      Exactly. The Brexit country wins.

      But let them have it. A £20 million price tag? & a £10/15 million one from the BBC? Good luck with funding that spectacle when ppl are facing a cost of living crisis.

    110. Ruby says:

      For goodness sake. Did you not did up.

      The word an_us is a banned word and so is any word that contain an_us as in an_sol, the planet, the name the river in Greeek mythology that flowed around the earth etc.

      Good Luck! Do I get a prize if I find the offending word?

    111. Stoker says:

      Re my post at 9:54pm

      DOH! Folks, prefix men’s with the escaped ‘wo’. Or should that be woo? 😉

    112. Geri says:

      Ruby!
      Feck guessing. I can die not knowing.

      I’ll be in for a severe reprimand in a minute as another one flies to mods inbox FFS.

    113. Stoker says:

      “Conor Burns was sacked as trade minister after a complaint of serious misconduct was made against him, Downing Street said. Tory whips confirmed Burns was also suspended from the party pending an investigation.”
      https://archive.ph/mr5qy

    114. Stoker says:

      “The Information Commissioner’s Office (ICO) has issued a formal reprimand to the home secretary, Suella Braverman, after sensitive documents were found at a London venue last year.”

      “The ICO said the documents were handed to police by venue staff in September 2021. Among the documents were two extremism analysis unit Home Office reports, a counter-terrorism policing report and personal data, including that of Metropolitan police staff, the ICO said.”

      “It comes after a government investigation concluded the Home Office was the most likely source of the documents, according to the ICO.”

      The information commissioner, John Edwards, said:

      “Government officials are expected to work with sensitive documents in order to run the country. There is an expectation, both in law and from the people the government serves, that this information will be treated respectfully and securely. In this instance that did not happen, and I expect the department to take steps to avoid similar mistakes in the future.”

    115. Ruby says:

      Since the trial of Alex Salmond I have serious doubts about these ‘serious misconduct’ allegations.

      Since reading about Christine Keller & Mandy Rice Davies these Tory sex scandals are always very disappointing.

      A drunk gay politcian gropes two gay men in a bar doesn’t exactly set the heather on fire.

      Nor does some couger asking a young man to come back to her place to shag her!

      The story of Lord Sewel in his orange bra while sorting cocaine & revealing secrets about his friend Tony Blair was a bit more like it.

      He said Tony’s relationship with Cherie is very strange and that he had a hard-on for George Bush & other juicy secrets.

      The sex scandals just ain’t what they used to be.

    116. Ruby says:

      Where is that cunt Ellis? Banned for life?

      Did I actually manage to chase him away with all my ‘cunt calling’ & ‘fuckin’ playground shit’?

      Maybe it’s time for ‘Fionan the Irish Boy’ to revise his opinion of me and my successful tactics.

      That’s two gone Fionan!

      Mark Boyle gone.
      Andy Ellis gone.

      Well done me!

      Airpunch!

      If there’s something strange
      In your neighborhood
      Who you gonna call?
      Trollbusters!

      If there’s something weird
      And it don’t look good
      Who you gonna call?
      Trollbusters!

      Need help call me: Ruby@trollbusters.com

      I ain’t ‘fraid of no troll. 🙂

    117. Ruby says:

      “Everything in moderation”

      Just discovered

      Compu-ting is a banned word

      same will apply to dispu-ting and every word containg pu_tin

      Watch out for ‘Ra ra Raspu_tin
      Lover of the Russian queen’

      Geri says:
      7 October, 2022 at 10:34 pm

      Ruby!
      Feck guessing. I can die not knowing.

      You have an obligation to other posters to find that word that keeps landing you in moderation.
      Keep lookin’

    118. Robert Hughes says:

      ” A drunk gay politcian gropes two gay men in a bar doesn’t exactly set the heather on fire.

      Nor does some couger asking a young man to come back to her place to shag her!

      The story of Lord Sewel in his orange bra while sorting cocaine & revealing secrets about his friend Tony Blair was a bit more like it.”

      L.O.L . Yr right Ruby , even ” sex scandals ” are shite these days . Where are all the…..

      ” TOP TORY WORE NAPPY WHILST PERFORMING UNNATURAL SEX ACTS ON AN UNDERAGE HORSE ” Stories .

      ( when I was a kid I always wondered what an ” unnatural ” sex act was , and how it was a performance ; being a Cafflik I assumed it must be something only Proddies did . Those bowler-hatted Orange Walkers struck me as just plain weird . Still do )

      Headlines in the future will be along the lines of

      ” MY PRONOUN HELL .NU SNP SHADOW FAMINE MINISTER SIR ARABELLA REES-MURRELL TELLS COURT OF HORRIFIC MISGENDERING BY VILE CYBER GNAT ”

      ” GLASGOW MAN JAILED AFTER ADMITTING BEING HETEROSEXUAL ”

      ” SCOTLANDSHIRE TO OUTLAW PUBERTY . ” NO PLACE THIS PATRIACHAL LEGACY IN PROGRESSIVE SCOTLANDSHIRE ” SAYS EX FM LADY STURGEON ”

      Jokin’ aside n’all ; actual sex scandals do – of course , still happen ( possibly more so and worse than ever ) but with sufficient money/power can be hidden in the * closet * or * mitigated * : t’was ever thus . eg we never did get to know ALL the names in Epstein’s * Little Black Book * , or it’s equivalent .

      By making trivial ( subjective ) offence-giving literally Offences , punishable by law , the once universally acknowledged distinction between ” minor ” and ” serious ” crimes become relative , and ultimately , meaningless

    119. Dorothy Devine says:

      Robert Hughes, that last sentence of yours is very scary indeed.

    120. Robert Hughes says:

      Dorothy .

      Some believe the blurring of the categories of “Minor ” and ” Serious ” crime is deliberate ; similarly , the erasure of the categories ” Male ” and ” Female ” : and to the same end , namely … the promotion of a ( pseudo ) ” Libertarian ” sexual/social free-for-all Society ( though it will never actually be ” free ” or ” for all ” – money will still determine who gets to do what ) which will reach it’s Omega Point in Transhumanism and the Holy Grail of human/machine immortality .

    121. Andy Ellis says:

      If there’s something strange
      In your neighborhood

      More likely you’ve been looking in the mirror too much Ruby. Most reasonable folk (which I realise automatically excludes the usual suspects in here) would feel that Rev Stu banning a repetitive cunt caller would be a far greater service to quality of the BTL discourse.

      Of course, maybe it’s just that other folk have lives and don’t sit all day swigging from a Buckfast bottle….? YW/HTH

    122. McDuff says:

      Stoker
      Yeah it makes my blood boil.
      Women`s Scotland v Austria shown on Alba ( i do like Alba and watch it) no way is that game going to be shown on Network tv, that is reserved for England only. The Scottish men`s games shown on Sky while the equivalent England games shown free on terrestrial tv. So why has Sky with all its cash not bid for the more lucrative England games????
      Over the past forty years i have watched Scotland a country that keeps England afloat, locked in a safety deposit box never to be seen as it doesn`t exist. And it never will as long as Sturgeon and the SNP are in charge.

    123. John Main says:

      @Effijy says:7 October, 2022 at 9:39 pm

      “we go into another recession with the lights and heating off”

      FFS Effigy, there you go again. Stick to the fucking facts and your points will go home with the reader – embellish them beyond belief and nae fucker will believe any of it.

      Nobody’s lights and heating is off.

      The UK is in second place behind Norway for energy security this coming winter.

      The UK government is paying more in energy bill support than any other European country.

      There’s a great case to be made that most of this largesse is being funded with Scottish energy and Scottish wealth. Stolen from Scotland if you like.

      So why not make that case, and leave out the exaggerated flights of fancy?

    124. John Main says:

      @Ruby says:7 October, 2022 at 11:39 pm

      “I ain’t ‘fraid of no troll”

      Well, dduuuhhh, course you ain’t!

      Terry Pratchett Discworld books explain all.

    125. John Main says:

      Andy Ellis

      You have to admit though, the spectacle of Ruby picking fights in sequence with just about every regular poster on here adds a little soupcon of entertainment.

      From memory, she has had a go at James Che, Geri and Fionan amongst others.

      For added comedy/irony gold, these posters are all female, yet Ruby regularly posts on here about how this is a hostile environment for women!

    126. Roger says:

      They think coming second is a win.
      They know they won’t win, it’s all about second place.

    127. Republicofscotland says:

      Hundreds of diplomatic files on King Charles III earlier life (Prince Charles) due to be released, will not now see the light of day.

      “There’s no reason for these to be kept secret. The normal excuse given is that it’s to uphold the dignity of the crown. But the dignity of the crown is upheld by them not behaving in an undignified manner.”

      There must be some very eye opening info within the files.

      https://declassifieduk.org/exclusive-hundreds-of-diplomatic-files-on-king-charles-censored/

    128. Geri says:

      No need to watch the SNP conference folks..

      Same shite. Different year.

      Tories are bad.
      NS is a Goddess.
      We win everything, proving to everyone, Sturgeon is a Goddess.
      All of you continually vote for her – because she is a Goddess.
      We (8 mandates gathering stour) won’t ever take your vote for granted. LOLZ!

      Zzzzzzzzz

    129. Republicofscotland says:

      The Yestival setting up at George Sq Glasgow, the GCC camera time lapses every few seconds or so to update the movements.

      https://www.glasgow.gov.uk/forms/webcam/Webcam.aspx

    130. sarah says:

      @ Republicofscotland: thanks for the link to the Freedom Square GCC cameras. That is clever of you to think of it!

    131. Hatuey says:

      I predicted this week that the BBC and western media generally would start attacking Saudi Arabia when it became clear that the Saudis were aligning with the Shanghai Cooperation Org. I defy anyone to listen to Kate Adie’s ‘From Our Own Correspondent’ this week without bursting into hysterical laughter — the English establishment has absolutely no shame.

      And that’s the way “the west” operates. It’s pure hypocrisy and everyone sees right through it today. And it’s why the US is panicking right now, doing everything it can to start wars.

      The only strong card the US has is its military power but Xi and Vlad are too clever to take the bait. All they need to do is wait and let the gravitational force of economic decline do the work for them — and it will. If you think Britain’s collapsing economy has been a spectacle (and this is just the start btw), wait to you see the collapse of the US economy… it’s absolutely in the post.

      I notice the doltish caretaker above is still talking about his truly Great Britain being second in the energy security league, as if that means a thing in a market that is driven by exceptional demand. What sort of school did you go to when you don’t understand the very basics of supply and demand? We can only guess.

      You absolutely will see power cuts in Scotland this winter, with the extent and frequency of them dependent on the weather. Stupid little league tables don’t come into it.

      And that’s really shocking when you think about the gas and renewable energy we are pumping into their hands every single day, many times more than enough to give everyone in Scotland all the energy they need, with plenty left over to sell.

      The Indy movement and Alba needs to weaponise energy and resources. We should be talking about nationalising oil, gas, and renewables — the existing contracts were not signed by the rightful owners, the people of Scotland. Sure, it’ll cost money to do that, but it’s standard practice to pay up over decades and God knows we are good for it…

      If we are taking our country back, we are taking our resources back too. England can fleece some other country if it wants energy, or it can wait in line to buy it like the rest. They’ve been leeching off us for years.

    132. James Che says:

      Scotland is in Second place for energy security behind Norway going into this winter.
      But It is a stolen resource from Scotland by the rest of UK and that lie and hide the facts to the Scottish people. Such as they did with the MacCrones report,
      such methods of stealing from Scotland is also carried out with taxes raid on the Scottish nation under the Barnett formula, which goes against the articles of the mythical treaty of union.

    133. Confused says:

      Everyone should read widely because often “sound bricks, shoddy edifice” and authors, even when pushing their agenda, are always giving things away, en passant.

      Stuck inside, so hate-reading the Scotsman, some random selections –

      some climate change

      The main threat for the UK then, comes from Antarctica, which is unfortunately where the most ice and largest uncertainties lie. In addition, ONGOING LAND UPLIFT acts to REDUCE THE RATES OF SEA LEVEL RISE IN THE “NORTHERN UK”, while LAND SUBSIDENCE EXACERBATES SEA LEVEL RISE IN “THE SOUTH”.

      Dr Matthew D Palmer is the lead scientist for sea level at the Met Office Hadley Centre and an associate professor at the University of Bristol

      Do you like property, get in on this you native aboriginal Scotchist “peoples of indigenous nativity”

      A new ‘village’ for the North East, which will surround a golf course built by American player Jack Nicklaus, is seeking its first residents.The long-awaited development at Ury Estate near Stonehaven has taken a major step forward with the release of the first properties in The Nicklaus Village.

      Nicklaus, an 18-time major championship winner, said the village now offered a “luxury lifestyle experience” with house prices coming with a STARTING PRICE of £950,000. The golf course is due to open in 2024.

      All you oompah macloompahs just feel happy to live in willy mcwonkas brigadoon heilan golf resort and dirty money centre. Well, not live there, but the money will be pouring into your pockets with all those domestic cleaning jobs; car washing as trickle down, wet your beaks!

      A new revisionist history is out on Churchill – a short summary, increasing the signal to noise ratio by almost literally the exponential of infinity – “Churchill wasn’t a cunt, honest”. It is full of pure brammers

      Churchill adored Scotland. He loved visiting Balmoral.

      That convinces me. Compelling and authoritative.

      The rev used to do this sort of thing, rather well, slicing and dicing, the lazy cunt.

      The BBC is reporting that the KINAHAN crime cartel blew up Nordstream and Vlodimir Putchin hypersonic missiled an irish petrol station in retaliation – never doubt the beeb, the truth is in their charter.

    134. colin the keelie says:

      Yestival Glasgow 2022

      Put that into Youtube to see the Live stream on Youtube.

    135. James Che says:

      John Main.

      No use john trying to stir trouble up with your big wooden spoon,

      Ruby and I had a difference of opinion in one instance, but we never fell out, we both are grown up enough to know that and still speak to each other.
      Which means we beat you at your little game of Shi.. stirring

      Trying to create friction between those for independence on here rather shows yourself up in a poor light,
      Trying to egg Ruby on to get banned and stir trouble is also shameful on your character.

      THE SHAME IS ON YOU.

    136. James Che says:

      Confused.

      I read a story about that planned for golf course years ago in the msm.
      It was something to do with all the locals that lived there having to vacate there homes and leave their local employment work.
      The msm at that time mentioned how some people had worked there for thirty or more years and had no where else to go ater the buy out and take over.

      I was interested in that story as it had a similar echo’s to the mr trump golf corse story at the time where local people were shown in a bad light for trying to hang on to there homes and way of life.

      I suppose this is one of the modern ways of doing official highland clearences that go under the radar.
      There are many other instances where I live too that come under climate change, where farmers are technically being forced out of farming and of their land in Scotland.

    137. robertkknight says:

      On a lighter note…

      This is NSFW, not for those who dislike the F-bomb, best avoided if you’re a Monarchist/Royalist and definitely not suitable for small ears.

      But boy… you’ll laugh yourself silly…

      https://twitter.com/i/status/1575473269351845888

    138. Ruby says:

      colin the keelie says:
      8 October, 2022 at 1:37 pm

      Yestival Glasgow 2022

      Put that into Youtube to see the Live stream on Youtube.

      Cheers Colin!

      https://tinyurl.com/2f4teyx8

      Just tuned in to hear brilliant singers!

    139. Ruby says:

      robertkknight says:
      8 October, 2022 at 2:06 pm

      On a lighter note…

      This is NSFW, not for those who dislike the F-bomb, best avoided if you’re a Monarchist/Royalist and definitely not suitable for small ears.

      But boy… you’ll laugh yourself silly…

      https://twitter.com/i/status/1575473269351845888

      That is brilliant! Very funny!

      If he spoke like that he would be a lot more likeable.

    140. James che says:

      Robert Hughes,

      It is scary that a english parliament legislated devolved government are inventing laws in Scotland that actually attack the Scottish population.

    141. Republicofscotland says:

      Hatuey @1.16pm.

      Yes, I agree, listening to a political slot on LBC radio, it would appear the Saudi’s are cutting the production of barrels of oil in order to keep the price high, this will in turn keep the price of Russian oil high, and the US isn’t pleased with this at all.

      Speculation that a million plus barrels of oil less will be produced per day by the OPEC countries. Speculation, or not from a US economic advisor he claims that the EU will try and enforce a price cap on Russian oil before the years out.

      For us that means high prices at the fuel pumps and higher prices for goods made with oil components.

    142. James che says:

      And Westminster is a English parliament, as it alone moved into the fake British parliment without breaking session until 1708.

    143. Republicofscotland says:

      James Che @2.04pm.

      Alex Salmond often wrongly gets the blame for inviting Donald Trump over to Scotland as FM, when it was Jack McConnell as FM who did the inviting, using Scottish government cash to hire a helicopter to fly Trump around Scotland. We know how that ended with the golf courses and all.

      McConnell doesn’t give a toss about Scotland his record proves that.

      https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FeVZSLwXEBwpZmL?format=png&name=small

    144. Ruby says:

      Robin MacAlpine is on fire!

    145. Graf Midgehunter says:

      robertkknight says: 8 October, 2022

      “On a lighter note…

      This is NSFW, not for those who dislike the F-bomb, best avoided if you’re a Monarchist/Royalist and definitely not suitable for small ears.

      But boy… you’ll laugh yourself silly…”
      —————————

      RK. This is one of the reasons I often enjoy reading “WINGS”, you are always learning something new..!

      Never heard of this guy before..

      https://twitter.com/DAVID_FIRTH

      I do miss Shauny Boy.

      Much better than the endless boring sh*t from Andy and the gang of four. 🙁

    146. Ruby says:

      Interesting fact that polls before IndyRef showed 70% support amongst young people but votes among young people were only 40%.

      For some reason the young people didn’t get out to vote.

    147. Republicofscotland says:

      I can’t confirm.

      Rumour going around that Angus Robertson of the SNP, said at the conference that there won’t be an indyref next year.

      If true, he’s telling us something we already know.

    148. Dan says:

      @ RoS

      12 min clip of the French 24 TV interview with Angus Robertson.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoVjY2r5wRU

    149. James Che says:

      Republicofscotland.

      Thanks for making that clear, a lot of people do not understand that due to msm propaganda at the time,
      A lot of people have distorted views of AS, that have been deliberate in there creation for purpose of misleading the independence of Scotland akin to the MSM Vow,

      I suppose my only personal, ( nothing to do with Msm) fault I find with AS years in office was his approach at freeing Scotland to independence took the wrong route,

      He followed the establishments method and terms, as most political parties do in Scottish government still today, they apply for permission with a begging bowl at the feet of the English government and courts.

      He and the original old Snp should have bought to the main stream attention not only to the breaches in the treaty of union, which was a far more direct target then and now, but perhaps also better understood (himself ) the legal configuration of the treaty of the union as not being valid,

      He is a intelligent man in politics, and understands the devious shinanigins of British politics,

      However this seems to have missed the most important one, a topic all the Scottish politicians have avoided in something that resembles fear.

      I often wonder where Scotland in independence would be now, we may never have had the globalist puppet NS and the NuSNP.

    150. James Che says:

      James,

      You’re best not taken anything if you want your eyesight and view to remain clear, I don’t even take propaganda waccy baccy either.

    151. James Che says:

      Dan.

      Thanks for the link, much appreciated.

    152. Republicofscotland says:

      Dan Thanks for the link.

      Meanwhile at the clapping seals conference today in Aberdeen where SNP MSPs and MPs are promising us the earth, the SNP is to move into broadcasting.

      Apparently, this is the gist of it.

      “The SNP broadcasting platform announced earlier today appears to be a new podcast named Scotland’s Voices, with a one-minute clip including people from Glasgow reacting to the Prime Minister posted on podcast streaming platforms.”

      So basically, it’s just another finger pointing exercise. Meanwhile Blackford stood up and condemned Brexit and Truss then lauded his boss, Sturgeon.

      Here’s the rundown of what went on under the big tent in Aberdeen today, by the Sturgeon fanzine.

      https://www.thenational.scot/news/23033026.live-updates-breaking-news-snp-conference-aberdeen/

    153. Rab Davis says:

      So the King in waiting, Angus Robertson is now saying that IndyRef2 next October is off

      I wonder how Sturgeon is going to sell this one to the faithful in her key note speech.

      SNP once again all over the place with what their interpretation of fighting for Scottish independence actually looks like.

      We all know where this is leading.

      It’s taking us right into the UK general election of 2024 and Wishart and Co will have ANOTHER five years of sitting on their hands at Westminster picking up a wee fortune in wages for themselves.

      Can Sturgeon and Murrell not do us all a favour,,, like Adolf and Eva done,,,find a bunker somewhere,,,I don’t care who goes first.

    154. James Che says:

      Scotlands Voices will be only the chosen few voices no doubt, a bit like specially selected voicesin Snp membership..

    155. Ruby says:

      Sturgeon has suggest that she is a true feminist and all those campaigning for women’s rights aren’t.

      That hasn’t gone down well on Twitter.

    156. Merganser says:

      Ruby @ 6.30pm

      ‘Feminist’ Noun. An advocate of women’s rights, on the basis of equalities of the sexes.

      Nothing to do with gender of course. And Sturgeon doesn’t even know what a woman is so she cannot be a feminist.

      Of all the rubbish she talks (and there are heaps of it every time she opens her mouth) this takes the biscuit for stupidity and arrogance.

    157. Geri says:

      James Che

      Re Alex. I don’t think he did. If anyone was a swot on precedure it was him. He had Cameron telt he was having indyref (majority at Holyrood + mandate) & he had them telt he wanted an (Edinburgh) agreement they couldn’t back track on.
      He also had them telt, during Blair’s Devo set up, he’d be seeking indyref when he comes to power.
      Aye, aye, sure Mr fringes – whatever you say. Well give you a gentleman’s agreement. The one Smith later agreed to keep – the one Sturgeon is seeking to end.

      He didn’t lie on EU (As shown by NI now – it was possible to stay in SM & CU)) & he didn’t lie about the currency. They couldn’t stop us using it until we had our own. He should’ve educated folks there’d be a transitional period. Folks wouldn’t have been indy on the 19th & England wouldn’t have shut down the cash machines overnight.

      My only two annoyances with Salmond was abandoning us after naw. He & we had WM by the nuts! He should’ve stayed & demanded everything they promised. He’d have laughed them out of town with the pish that was on offer /the Smith Comission Sturgeon signed us up to. Indyref vote is void if you don’t deliver everything you promised to & you can tear up the Scotland Bill while yer at it. We won’t be asking parly to give us total humiliation by gleefully rejecting every single thing – here is OUR demands or the vote is void & the show will be back on the road.

      Jeez, even back then Sturgeons crew took glee in everything being voted down like it was some sort of win for them with Pishy pensioner Pete claiming he was the official opposition.

      & Brexshit. He should’ve dug his heels in at the lock (each nation had to show a majority – but Sturgeon was his boss by then.

      Re, the golf course, aye that was SLabber. Scotland’s fake friends. That roaster is in the House of Lords discussing a New Act of Union to lock us in forever.

      Trump trying to evict a wee old lady who refused to go. Didn’t they switch off her water & electricity & she still wouldn’t go?

      Then there was the Scots who clubbed together to buy thier island back. (Eigg)

    158. Fionan says:

      James Che “AS years in office was his approach at freeing Scotland to independence took the wrong route,”
      I do think it is important to remember that in 2012-14, support for independence was still very low, 25% at the start of the campaign. The popular view of indy was that it was fanatical and very much a fringe issue. People just were not comfortable with the idea of indy, and this was so strongly supported by the fear campaign. Therefore just to get the general public to view indy as something real and beneficial meant that AS had to stick very much to a middle road, observing all the niceties and bringing Cameron along with him in the edinburgh agreement. If he hadnt done so, the unionists would have brought about a boycott or some similar action in 2014. It took the referendum itself to bring the YES movement into mainstream politics, and that was all due to AS. If he had conducted a negative campaign at that time, pointing out all the flaws of the union, I do think he might have alienated those he was trying to bring on board, which he was hugely successful at doing. Had he never exited the leadership, i do believe he could then have taken the gloves off and gone for it. AS said way back then that there was more than one route to indy, and he took the one that caused least fear among soft yes/no voters and kept them on board and raring to go. That is what NS inherited from AS and that is what she has deliberately squandered and indeed opposed during her ‘stewardship’. For that I believe wholeheartedly that she should be jailed for life in utter disgrace. As Breeks says she should be impeached, and then she should be jailed.Forever.

    159. robertkknight says:

      Surprised Sturgeon and Truss aren’t best buddies. After all, they’ve so much in common. Not least both being prime examples of the ‘Peter principle’…

      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_principle

    160. Ruby says:

      https://twitter.com/RoddyQC/status/1578493687146770432

      Interesting thread.

      Sturgeon states

      “Most men who want to abuse women don’t feel the need to change their gender to do it”.

      Roddy Doyle answers:

      ‘I’m sure that is true. But “most men don’t” involves acceptance that “some men do”. How many is “acceptable”? Or, to put it another way, why are concerns that “some men will” dismissed as hateful?’

      Very well said Roddy Doyle.

      The worst thing for me is the way Sturgeon dismisses women’s concerns.

      People worried that women didn’t like Salmond during 2014 the big worry in the next referendum will be women not just disliking Sturgeon but absolutely hating her.

    161. Dan says:

      @ Merganser at 6.48pm

      This is the flaw in letting folk simply Self ID as something or other.
      Maybe it’s best for other folk to judge on merit if a particular person’s Self ID’d persona actually aligns with the characteristics of what the individual describe themselves as.
      EG.
      This happens in court cases where a judge or jury look at the presented evidence and cast their decision accordingly.
      Similarly, we sit a driving test where an examiner observes an individual’s abilities to see if they meet the criteria to pass the test.
      Now I’m no expert, but highly suspect the jails would be empty, and a lot of dubious driver talent would be on the road, if individuals just respectively decided for themselves in they were innocent or excellent drivers.

    162. Geri says:

      I also caught a few bits on LBC

      Seems Bidens *elbow bump* meant feck all to anyone but Biden…lol

      And another inside UK.r

      Word on the ground, by a man on the street, is if V-ad wants a target – ‘he wouldn’t be stoopid & do it next door – he’d look to hit the Brits or something 1st’

    163. Ruby says:

      Men who want to abuse women in women only spaces don’t have to change gender all they have to do is put on a dress.

      Nobody is going to be standing outside the Primark changing room or any other changing room demanding to see a GRC.

      Women will not be able to challenge a man entering ‘women only spaces’ as they would have in the past as the ‘Rainbow Police’ would be there in a jiffy to arrest them.

      Sturgeon said some shit that there will be penalties for those pretending to be transgender.

      How do you prove someone is pretending?

      Sturgeon is very strange!

      It seemed to me that her feminism had nothing to do with women but was more about her hatred of men.

    164. Geri says:

      Fionan – totally agree re negatives of the Union.

      He played his cards right there. By bigging up Scotland’s potential the Naw side was left with the negative of trashing everything & they weren’t happy about it – even greetin’ in parly at the time they were on the negative side & again later (indyref2) they wanted the question changed cause YES was seen as a positive..wtf?! LOL

      They had the opportunity to big up the Union & considering we’d already suffered 300yrs of that pish, it was left wanting..they only had the too wee card to play..

    165. Geri says:

      Ruby
      There’ll be penalties for transgendered entering womens safe spaces..
      They’ll be sent to women’s jail’s.

      The crazy world of having Muppets in charge.

      Whole thing is a farce. The very fact they don’t want thier own safe spaces, only women’s, says it all.

    166. Robert Hughes says:

      ” My only two annoyances with Salmond was abandoning us after naw.”

      Agreed , Geri . If the perception is accurate that he felt he’d done as much as he could , and the cause would be better served by a younger , fresher face , who * appeared * to be 100% committed + had the requisite political savvy n determination – we can only commend his honourable motivation for stepping down

      Enter the dragon .

      We puzzle why Alex could have got that SO wrong . But that’s to underestimate the protean duplicity of some individuals ; their * skill * at being whatever/whoever they think people around them want them to be – as long as that perception is positive and furthers their advancement. Q.E.D .

      it’s also possible NS was ( then ) what she appeared to be – and there was no error of judgement on Alex’s part .

      We also can’t underestimate the tendency , of * celebrity * and the seductive allure of Power to warp even the noblest ambitions : especially if the individual lacks self-awareness and character ie ..the capacity to be completely honest with oneself . Fame may reward those that have it , materially and in terms of ego-gratification ( ” Celebrity is a mask that eats into the face. As soon as one is aware of being somebody, to be watched and listened to with extra interest, input ceases, and the performer goes blind and deaf in his overanimation. ” . John Updike ) – but the price is alienation from * ordinary * life , * ordinary * people . Not knowing how much a pint of milk costs is not as trivial as it might appear .

      None of which is to excuse NS . We shouldn’t have to pay the price of her Post FM ambitions : or suspect character .

      Just such a , in retrospect , disastrous decision by Alex ; we can only mourn for what might have been .

    167. Ruby says:

      “The Sexual Offences Act 2003 says someone commits exposure if they intentionally expose their genitals and intend that someone will see them and be caused alarm or distress. Someone who commits exposure can be sentenced for up to two years in prison.”

      Obviously transwomen will have the same rights as women to be stark naked in gym/swimming pool changing rooms. If seeing their penis causes alarm & distress which I’m guessing it might would that ‘transwoman’ be a risk of being sentenced to two years in prison for indecent exposure.

      There are men who get a kick out of exposing their dick to women up until now they were probably deterred due to risk of being charged.

      However now there is no risk they can just put on a dress & go the local swimming pool and expose themselves to women & children.

      Something very strange about Sturgeon she’s not like any woman I’ve ever known.

      I wonder if she has ever seen a dick! She strikes me as being very naive, someone who has led a very sheltered life. Yeah! I know she is married but doesn’t mean she isn’t still a virgin.

    168. John Main says:

      @Hatuey 1:16

      “You absolutely will see power cuts in Scotland this winter …”

      Wings BTL resident over-achiever speaks.

      Not only can Hatuey predict the course of the war that must not be mentioned, he can predict the winds and the temperatures too, for months in advance.

      But wait, some of Hatuey’s predictive power is rubbing off on me.

      I predict, that just as in the past, if Hatuey’s predictions turn out to be pebble-dashing that washes clean at the first flush, that Hatuey will pretend the prediction never happened.

    169. John Main says:

      @Ruby 8:09

      Normal people stop saying stuff like that about people they know nothing about when they grow up, generally around age 18.

      What happened to you to leave your development arrested at an emotional age of 14 or thereabouts?

    170. Scott says:

      John Main says:
      8 October, 2022 at 8:42 pm

      Not only can Hatuey predict the course of the war that must not be mentioned, he can predict the winds and the temperatures too, for months in advance.

      Sit doon, ya clown.

      Weather predictions are based on real time conditions measured against historic trends, and the laws of thermodynamics.

      It’s not bicycle science, so be better informed.

    171. Scott says:

      John Main says:
      8 October, 2022 at 8:46 pm

      @Ruby 8:09

      Normal people stop saying stuff like that about people they know nothing about when they grow up, generally around age 18.

      What happened to you to leave your development arrested at an emotional age of 14 or thereabouts?

      And round in circles it goes….

    172. Geri says:

      It’s true.

      Autogynephilia is a disorder.
      I’m making myself a suit *put the fucking lotion in the basket!* Who said that? Lol

      So is pedophilia. *Children as young as 2 can *know* they’re trans. Children as young as 12 can make up thier own minds about sex* who said that?

      So is indecent exposure. Look at that cretin policeman who continually exposed himself which lead to adduction & murder.

      These are all behaviours that psychologists know lead to further behaviours & they always escalate. Fast.

      Example – a pedo – viewing Child porn satisfies for a while, it desensitises over time leading to rationalising it, leading to thoughts they’re not doing anything wrong, look, those children seem to be enjoying it, leading to acting on it.

      Men should not be in Women & children’s safe spaces. They’re safe (in law) for a reason.

      Snowflake in pampers will be happy for a while gaining access until that no longer gets his rocks off..leading to acting out to the next stage..

    173. Geri says:

      Ruby
      Sturgeon has lost the plot on this issue.
      2018 was my wake up call- I was shocked to my core at her UN *rights of the child* Q&A & at the road she was taking.

      There was an Aussie in the audience, not in the slightest bit amused at her or where she was from, who piped up he was worried about his grandchildren who lived in Scotland when he seen what was happening in England re puberty blockers, no parental consent & even reports of children being taken into care because thier parents objected to thier treatment etc..

      Basically, she’d never heard of that happening so it didn’t exist in her world. Shrugged off like it was some conspiracy theory.

      I give you Mermaids & Tavistock.

      MSPs have said before that she’s a shut shop. She’s out of touch, won’t listen & it’s her way or the highway.

      Robert Hughes

      Absolutely correct. She’s a narcissist. She mirrors ppl to advance her herself & have the same adulation as them. She mirrored Alex. Indy obviously bores her now so she’s moved on to her next adoring fans, the Stonewall community.

      This shit should concern everyone because when things go tits up or, god forbid, a murder happen – it’s the Scottish government who will be sued until bankrupt at all the cases before them. When Someone’s *bits* are in the incinerator – there’s no reversing it & there’s no amount of cash will shut that up.

    174. Geri says:

      I predict the lights will go off too.

      Reese Moggy has his dream realised, the posh man on the telly with public service announcements of us all returning to the Victorian era where we all retire to bed by 8pm with a good book or for a sha….

      Yay! More nativists for us!? Scots aren’t programmed to read so that only leaves the other lol! Baby boom MK II

    175. Shug says:

      I heard the UK is thinking about ending the state pension and putting everyone in universal credit

      Has anyone else heard this

    176. Rab Davis says:

      Shug 12.05am

      Re, Truss and pensions.

      It’s about something she said when she was a member of the Libdems in 1995.

      https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/society/2022/sep/30/early-liz-truss-comments-on-scrapping-benefits-stoke-fears-of-further-cuts

    177. Ruby says:

      It’s very quiet here on Wings.
      It’s also very quiet in the Scottish MSM with regards to Sturgeon the destroyer of women’s rights.

      There is this article

      https://archive.ph/kGrdD

      SNP MSP John Mason claims party’s pro-abortion stance is losing support for independence

      AN SNP MSP has claimed the party is siphoning off support for independence by taking a stance on a host of social issues including abortion buffer zones and gender recognition reforms.

      The article if focused on abortion rights.

      I don’t agree with him on abortion but well done to him for speaking out. Will we hear the views of those members of the party who are opposed to the GRA reforms?

      I don’t know if the party’s pro-abortion stance is losing support for independence or not. It might be more accurate to say the SNP are losing support for independence.

      In another article in ‘The Herald’ Michel Settle asks

      The UK Government is a disaster zone … so why hasn’t support for independence surged ahead?

    178. Ruby says:

      There’s this in The Scotsman

      Scottish independence: Majority of Scots think ‘de facto’ referendum is ‘wrong’, poll shows, as SNP voters struggle to name Nicola Sturgeon’s successor

      It’s a premium article so full details not available.

      However I don’t think that matters because the whole of Scotland could be against a ‘de facto’ referendum and Sturgeon wouldn’t care. She would dismiss any concerns about the ‘de facto’ referendum as being not valid.

      Why is it so quiet on Wings is it because there is no ‘debate’ about UK-raine, Covid & the franchise?

    179. John Main says:

      “Why hasn’t support for independence surged ahead?”

      Good question.

      My take is that Indy needs two pre-conditions to exist before it can become unstoppable:

      1) The justification for it in terms of national sovereignty, personal freedom and personal wealth.

      2) The confidence that we Scots can manage, control, and govern Indy so that the benefits promised at 1) will actually materialise.

      Reading on here, nobody questions that we already have 1), although more work is still needed to get that message more widely communicated to apolitical Scots. Show them the money!

      And, reading on here, it seems obvious that few if any see the current Scottish political establishment as having what is needed to run a sovereign country in the 21st century.

      So there you have it. Pro-Indy Scots are a squabbling lost tribe wandering in the wilderness. We know the promised land exists, but without competent and visionary grown ups to lead us there, we will never find it.

    180. Ruby says:

      Aw nae!

      Is it quiet here because all the ‘usual suspects’ are attending the SNP conference?

      Are they all big fans of ‘Nicola the Destoryer of women’s rights’?

    181. Ruby says:

      Oh fucky de fucky de fuck! I’m alone on this forum with the stalker!

      I’m offski!

      Bye!

    182. Breeks says:

      Ruby says:
      9 October, 2022 at 8:52 am

      Aw nae!

      Is it quiet here because all the ‘usual suspects’ are attending the SNP conference?

      No Ruby. Everybody is celebrating.

      Independence is saved and just around the corner because the SNP are gonna launch a podcast.

      And we all thought they weren’t up to the job.

    183. Andy Ellis says:

      Why is it so quiet on Wings is it because there is no ‘debate’ about UK-raine, Covid & the franchise?

      It’s because a small coterie of moonhowlers, conspiracy theorists, ill-informed Treaty of Union obsessives, anti-vaxxers and shills for Vlad soil the BTL discourse, other those who disagree with them and abuse and cunt call them at every opportunity.

      The low lives often have the place to themselves unless there are any grown ups around to school them. A sad end to once important pro-independence resource.

    184. Alf Baird says:

      Ruby @ 8:52 am

      “all the ‘usual suspects’ are attending the SNP conference”

      Most of the speakers at the SNP conference are directly or indirectly on the British state payroll. Which helps explain why there is little debate or analysis on the core objective. That’s also because, as most folks looking on here know, the SNP is primarily a colonial administration.

      In line with postcolonial theory and practice the national party has become a co-opted part of the colonial establishment and anti-independence movement. Remaining SNP members do not yet understand how this can be, such is the Manichaeism nature of colonialism.

      However, the party has never undertaken a detailed analysis of colonialism, which is why the members and the peoples understanding of the situation remains rudimentary.

    185. John Main says:

      @Andy Ellis 9:21

      Amen brother.

    186. robert hughes says:

      ” No Ruby. Everybody is celebrating.

      Independence is saved and just around the corner because the SNP are gonna launch a podcast.”

      LOL . Aye , B . That must be it . Maybe also because everyone is in Aberdeen anxiously attempting to find a spot on the street to gaze in awe as the gilded coach and horses bearing the Nu Queen proceeds to the Event Complex Palace ( nb not be confused with a Complex Event – the former is a simple opportunity for the peasantry to express it’s adulation and gratitude ) .

      Frankly Breeks , I’m astonished and not a little disappointed you are not in attendance at this hallowed event yourself 🙂

      Talking about disappointment …….YESTIVAL ……? Whappen ?

      Any amount of reasons why the attendance was ….. not great ( I have my own reasons , I won’t bore you with them ) : but If that turnout is a reflection of the strength of ” yr fuckin’ this up Sturgeon , beat it ” opinion , we’re in worse situation than we thought .

      Dire

    187. DJ says:

      John & Andy

      Maybe folks have real lives to lead and so are gradually leaving the sinking ship btl has become?

    188. John Main says:

      Alf Baird

      The “British state payroll” is a generous teat to suck on.

      You don’t explain why some Scots should be castigated for having their teeth clamped on it, whilst for others, it might be OK.

      Over half of all Scots are in receipt of some state benefit or other.

      For all I know, there may be a close intersection of that group with the group of over half of all Scots who don’t support Indy.

      Thus, it might be better to explain how unclamping our teeth from the British teat and getting stuck into a more generous Scottish teat will work post-Indy.

      Show us the money!

    189. John Main says:

      DJ

      From the number of posts claiming blackouts are imminent (or already here), not to mention the sky-is-falling proclaimers of nuclear Armageddon, it could be they are out digging, reinforcing and stocking their survival bunkers.

      Or enjoying orgies of drunken lust, fuelled with the last of their savings.

      It’s unbelievable that people would post about their cast-iron certainty that these things are inevitable, then go wash the car, iron some shirts, or plan an early beat-the-crowds Xmas shop.

      Am I right?

    190. DJ says:

      Who knows John. All is possible within this hallowed WoS space…

    191. Hatuey says:

      Alf Baird: “the SNP is primarily a colonial administration”

      And that’s increasingly obvious.

      People will soon understand that voting for the SNP and expecting independence is as ridiculous as voting Scottish Labour and expecting independence.

      The tipping point for me was at the very start of the Covid crisis when they imposed the British strategy of “herd immunity” on us as if it was their own. Thousands died as a consequence of that decision, as predicted; and it’s the main reason the UK is number 6 in the world on the covid deaths chart.

      The Americans thought it was an example of British humour when they heard about it. The SNP didn’t think it was humour though, they took it very seriously. They want to distance themselves from that and pretend it didn’t happen but Leach was on TV and radio all over the place at the time, doing his best to sell the idea to the bewildered herd.

      If that isn’t a good example of a colonial administration doing the master’s bidding, regardless of the consequences on the colonised people, I don’t know what is.

    192. Colin the Keelie says:

      Saturday’s Julian Assange protest: hands around parliament.

      Try finding it in the Reuter’s news website. Clue: UK news.

      Then try finding it on the BBC news website: UK news.

    193. Dan says:

      John Main says: at 9:58 am

      Over half of all Scots are in receipt of some state benefit or other.

      Thus, it might be better to explain how unclamping our teeth from the British teat and getting stuck into a more generous Scottish teat will work post-Indy.

      Aye, that’s one way of looking at it, but another is that it’s a pity Unionists don’t have to continually explain and justify why through past and present UK governance so many folk still need to be in receipt of state aid to make ends meet.
      Of course it’s unlikely there will ever be such scrutiny of the many aspects that create this situation in the Unionist biased MSM. And this means the plebs won’t really begin to understand or question that reality, so the status quo is therefore managed and maintained.

    194. John Main says:

      @Hatuey says:9 October, 2022 at 10:38 am

      “it’s the main reason the UK is number 6 in the world on the covid deaths chart”

      World Covid deaths per capita:

      https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/

      UK is at number 26.

      It doesn’t matter how many times Hatuey wants to repeat this nonsense, the only measure worth a candle is easy enough to find. It hasn’t changed much over the entirety of 2022.

      Through lies and misrepresentation to Indy!

      Naw, it doesn’t work for me. Maybes best put it in Latin or somesuch so that punters don’t understand.

      Anyways, I’m off shopping, without a mask, and expecting no real social distancing. Just like everybody else I will encounter, I am expecting Hatuey’s derided herd immunity to keep me safe.

    195. Hatuey says:

      “Show us the money!”

      If I had been on the whisky and I woke up to see that I’d typed that even once, I’d probably be spend the day on the blower to Alcoholics Anonymous and The Samaritans.

      Thick people have a distinct advantage in debate.

    196. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Angus Roberston’s getting a bit gallus eh? Letting slip the bleeding obvious. (Unless he was told to do so.) In any case, the only folk likely to be surprised about there being no independence referendum next year are the same characters who’ll be hanging on Nicola’s every word tomorrow.

      Perhaps it’s time to boycott the whole system. Don’t vote at all. Council, Holyrood, Westminster, whatever. We just withdraw from the whole process.

      If we, the people, are sovereign and we feel that the process is not fit for purpose, we choose to turn our backs on it. But that boycott will surely be registered in the results. In lowered turnout. And we leave the pundits and pollsters to try and make sense of it because we refuse to take part in any polls.

      The only vote we will cast is the one we were promised – on independence. In a referendum exclusively for that purpose, not a plebiscitary GE. Until then there is no ‘democracy’ in Scotland.

    197. Dorothy Devine says:

      Ian B, I think that spoiling the ballot paper has to be the way – not voting doesn’t work because if only two folk vote some useless bugger will still get in.

    198. Stoker says:

      Dan posts on 8 October, 2022 at 3:34 pm

      “12 min clip of the French 24 TV interview with Angus Robertson.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoVjY2r5wRU

      Cheers, Dan!
      __________

      Ian Brotherhood says on 9 October, 2022 at 12:33 pm:

      “Perhaps it’s time to boycott the whole system. Don’t vote at all. Council, Holyrood, Westminster, whatever. We just withdraw from the whole process.”

      Sounds like a plan but i’m not 100% sold on it, Ian. I’d rather we just got a ‘Boycott Westminster’ agenda going and promoted votes for Alba candidates in other elections, ie: Holyrood, local councils etc.

      Whatever we decide though we really need to get things moving pronto or we will just be sitting here this time next year saying all the same things.

      The Skanks running the current SNP need the proverbial rocket up their arses and there’s no bigger or better rocket than the threat of ending their orgy at Westminster’s troughs.

      On witnessing a massive surge in support for boycotting Westminster they will be compelled to act or be consigned to the political scrapheap forever.

      But whatever we do we have to act quickly and decisively.

    199. James Che says:

      Re my conversation yesterday on the wrong route to independence as the soft approach and in my thinking, more could have been done during those years when Alex was in office,

      The attack was not a direct attack on Alex, but rather the route,
      The only attack on ALex really that that I find fault with was the flaw by nature that he has to trusting of those around him,

      Wether it was with the new leader of the SNP, NS,

      Or how devious The prime minster and westminster was in their cunning advanced plans of EVEL in place and ready to go the day after our referendum day.

      Wether it was the fact that the voting franchise was not in Scotlands domain 2014,, therefore neither was the counting of our votes.

      That they would not cheat us with the MSM as did happen with the Vow,

      Not having a plan B or C ready to go should the referendum go sour,

      Still believing in the begging bowl method and follow the rules of Westminster rather than the Sovereignty of Scotland’ through the Claim of Right, thus equality within the union.

      Right up to very recently when he still advised us all to vote for the SNP after ( they) had tried a set up so setiously it could have imprisoned him for a good part of his life.

      I have spoken with Alex personally and even leafleted for him in Alba, he is a very very nice man and I find no fault with his nature and personality or his innocence in politics, that the dirty politics was not already planned by opposition politics.

      Yes he took us further than anyone else in Scottish independence, and I still believe he was set up,

      However it is his kindness and a suggestion of innocence that finds no flaws in others in a mad dog eat dog world of politics that avoids direct hits.
      But the slow roundabout method trying not to upset the political apple cart and keep up with them and their political games is not the way independence will walk or come to us,

      NS has magnified that approach.
      Waiting for problems to be solved by asking the opposition is so similar in asking a certain hammer of the Scots whom should Scotland chose as their next monarch.

      Alex was well aware of the many breaches in the union,
      I believe it was himself that bought to my attention that westminster breached the treaty of union when the bourghs in Scotland were removed,
      It was also Alex that drew my attention to ratifying the treaty of the union, and to look closer at the difference between domestic laws and statue’s and international law regarding the treaty of the union,

      Alex is a very intelligent man and it is no wonder they wanted him out the picture, I have great respect for him and the way he started me off in researching the treaty of union, along with Robert phefffers.

      Yes I still believe that the way out of the “treaty of the union” is the treaty of union itself, for the following reasons.

      1: union minded people do not want the Scots to research it, to study it, or to talk about the subject even on this site,

      2: if there were no flaws in the treaty of union that were escape loop holes for Scotland westminster would not be busy trying to invent a new treaty between Scotland and England would they?

      Alex himself was on to a winner with the treaty of union in the years he was in office,

      However like NS he took the route and position of begging for permission from the Westminster, which immediately places Scotland in a inferior position within the treaty of the union,

      This is because he is to nice, and to trusting where others are concerned.
      In general life these are excellent qualities,
      In British politics it is one of the worst flaws to have as opposition enemies will eat you for breakfast.

      And NS along with MSM, dodgy courts, redacted evidence, the Vow, DC with Evel, tried.

      So summing up we need AS brains, but also a leader that is willing to go against the grain, a leader that studies and knows how to use the treaty of union to their advantage,
      A leader that questions the validity of the treaty of the union in all its faces of construction and continuence,

      The question that worry those in westminster is the paper lace thin treaty of union,
      Or they would not be trying to make a new version would they?
      Through a english parliament legislated devolved government. Without a vote directly on it to the people of Scotland or being held by the Scots in a Scottish convention.

      It would be a second purposed treaty with Scotland by England with no Scots involved.

    200. Stoker says:

      Geri wrote on 8 October 2022 at 6.54 pm:

      “My only two annoyances with Salmond was abandoning us after naw. He & we had WM by the nuts! He should’ve stayed & demanded everything they promised. He’d have laughed them out of town with the pish that was on offer /the Smith Commission Sturgeon signed us up to. Indyref vote is void if you don’t deliver everything you promised too & you can tear up the Scotland Bill while yer at it. We won’t be asking parly to give us total humiliation by gleefully rejecting every single thing – here is OUR demands or the vote is void & the show will be back on the road.”

      Couldn’t agree more! He had a duty to see it through as far as i’m concerned. His hard graft & commitment got us that far. He should have stayed to see it through and, *at the very least*, made sure Scotland was left in a far better/stronger position than we were pre-vote.

    201. Ruby says:

      Andy Ellis says:
      9 October, 2022 at 9:21 am

      Why is it so quiet on Wings is it because there is no ‘debate’ about UK-raine, Covid & the franchise?

      It’s because a small coterie of moonhowlers, conspiracy theorists, ill-informed Treaty of Union obsessives, anti-vaxxers and shills for Vlad soil the BTL discourse, other those who disagree with them and abuse and cunt call them at every opportunity.

      The low lives often have the place to themselves unless there are any grown ups around to school them. A sad end to once important pro-independence resource.

      What happened to your claim that you were going to ignore me?
      If you say something you really have to carry it through. Do you have a big problem with self-restraint?

      Never in the history of the world the universe and everything has anyone used the expression ‘cunt calling’ until you. LOL

      Everytime I read that weird expression I imagine a telephone conversation:

      Hello who’s calling
      Cunt calling
      Hello Cunt how can I help you.
      I have terrible problems with self-restraint can you help
      Sorry Cunt or is it Mr Cunt we don’t do restraints can I suggest you contact ‘The House of Harlot’
      Mr Cunt hangs up.

      Imagine if we all started to write in a similar way we would be accusing you of

      Moonhowler calling
      Conspiracy theorist calling
      Treaty of Union obsessives calling
      Anti-vaxxers calling
      Shills for Vlad calling
      Low lives calling

      That is just in the above post alone but if anyone cares to check your previous posts they will see you do all this ‘calling/othering’ at every opportunity.

      Why do you think all your ‘calling’ is perfectly OK and won’t mean the end of a once important pro-independence source whereas ‘cunt calling’ which Stuart doesn’t object to and has been know to do a bit of ‘cunt calling’ himself will?

      PS You are the only person I ‘cunt call’

      Andy Ellis & John Main are as strange as Sturgeon.

    202. Stoker says:

      “Freeze state pensions and slash ‘non-frontline’ NHS and schools staff, said No 10’s economic adviser”

      https://archive.ph/cfwUL

    203. Dan says:

      A bit more education on why we are where we are in this short post. Comments worth a read too.

      https://yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com/2022/10/09/in-response-to-peter/

    204. Ruby says:

      Stoker says:
      9 October, 2022 at 1:35 pm

      “Freeze state pensions and slash ‘non-frontline’ NHS and schools staff, said No 10’s economic adviser”

      More good news for the independence campaign! Although the weird thing is the more good news we get the more the support for independence stays the same.

      I think there’s a French expression for that ‘phenomenon’ I just can’t remember it at the moment.

    205. Breastplate says:

      Andy Ellis @ 9:21am,

      “It’s because a small coterie of moonhowlers, conspiracy theorists, ill-informed Treaty of Union obsessives, anti-vaxxers and shills for Vlad soil the BTL discourse, other those who disagree with them and abuse and cunt call them at every opportunity.

      The low lives often have the place to themselves unless there are any grown ups around to school them. A sad end to once important pro-independence resource.”

      I wasn’t going to reply to this pish until I read John Main agreed with it a few minutes later.

      With the vast majority of people “vaccinated”, the only people who have been othered were those that questioned the government, and hence, prevailing public narrative to the extent that you wanted people who weren’t vaccinated treated like drink drivers.
      This is othering on a rather elevated and nasty level.

      Calling people, that felt they were in no danger from Covid19, anti-vaxxers and cheerleading for segregation was and is othering, as I see you’re still at it.
      The FACT remains and has been true throughout the pandemic that the vast majority of people didn’t need the “vaccine”.
      This was the government’s stance initially as only the vulnerable (the elderly and people with underlying conditions) needed to be vaccinated so we could all get back to normal.
      No doubt the pharmaceutical industry helped change policy when they realised they could make shit loads of money from having everyone and their cat inoculated.

      Goalposts we’re moved and cheerleaders were formed to organise the angry mob with torches and pitchforks, enter Ellis, the self righteous witchfinder general.

      Vlad is the Devil incarnate, this is the government narrative and hence the public narrative (see how it works), the people that question that narrative are once again maligned and othered by you and your Brownshirt mates for having the audacity to deviate from the thinking of the hive mind.

      Ellis. You are the one shouting ‘burn the witch’.
      Wake the fuck up!

    206. Ruby says:

      robert hughes says:

      Frankly Breeks , I’m astonished and not a little disappointed you are not in attendance at this hallowed event yourself 🙂

      Aw nae! Does this mean we’re not going to see Breeks in his ball gown? (with hailer, whoopee cushion, vuvuzela, smoke bombs & 2 dozen eggs concealed under the garment?
      I am very disappointed.

    207. Ruby says:

      Dan says:
      9 October, 2022 at 1:46 pm

      A bit more education on why we are where we are in this short post. Comments worth a read too.

      https://yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com/2022/10/09/in-response-to-peter/

      Very interesting! I am a big fan of Alf. Go Alf.

      I think I may have seen some ‘calling’ of Alf I can’t remember which it was.
      ‘Moonhowler calling’ or was it ‘natavist calling’?

    208. John Main says:

      @Breastplate 1:56

      “maligned and othered by you and your Brownshirt mates”

      Wee problem there BP.

      Do I need to spell it out, or are you already kicking yourself for writing it?

    209. Ebok says:

      Ian Brotherhood says:
      9 October, 2022 at 12:33 pm
      (Dorothy & Stoker)
      ‘Perhaps it’s time to boycott the whole system. Don’t vote at all’

      Would it not be better if the electorate took it upon themselves to CHANGE the whole system, Ian?
      Not voting passes the buck to those who do vote and changes nothing. What we need is a lot of Independents standing. Look at council election results, for instance. Independents regularly win 150 + of the 1227 seats – way more than 10%, so it can be done.

      Alba is likely to field a very small number of candidates in the GE, perhaps as few as the two existing MPs, but what if many candidates emerge from the pro-indy groups, standing as Independents: –
      ‘An independent or non-partisan politician is a politician not affiliated with any political party or bureaucratic association’

      The party-political system is not fit for purpose, and it will never change from within. However, we, as individuals, can dismantle the whole rotten system by fielding strong, ethical local candidates. Independents for Independence?

    210. John Main says:

      Andy Ellis

      The only sense I can read into Ruby’s post of 1:28 is that she thinks we are virgins who don’t know what a dick looks like.

      And eunuchs, as we could otherwise just look down to check out our own dicks.

      Haud oan! She must think we’re ciswomen.

      So when she’s calling us cunts, she’s actually staring at our groins!

    211. Scott says:

      John Main says:
      9 October, 2022 at 2:49 pm

      Andy Ellis

      The only sense I can read into Ruby’s post of 1:28 is that she thinks we are virgins who don’t know what a dick looks like.

      And eunuchs, as we could otherwise just look down to check out our own dicks.

      Haud oan! She must think we’re ciswomen.

      So when she’s calling us cunts, she’s actually staring at our groins!

      When’s the wedding, lads?

    212. John Main says:

      “Thick people have a distinct advantage in debate”

      Coming from the resident Wings BTL over-achiever, we can’t just dismiss this as prima facie tripe.

      But it certainly overturns the received wisdom that knowledgeable, eloquent, competent, persuasive people have the distinct advantage. More so if they have evidence backing them up.

      Maybes Hatuey’s perception of being regularly bested by thickos arises from his own inability to discriminate between reason, evidence and logic on one side, and surmise, wishful thinking and pathological bias on the other.

    213. Dan says:

      When the mad world drives you to consider jist saying “fuck it” and jumping in the sea, then you remember that mermaids live in the sea, and you hastily paddle back to the shore…

      https://twitter.com/SResisters/status/1579047412982636545

    214. James Che says:

      Geri,

      This is perhaps what was trying to explain, although maybe not so well.

      Alex believed in NS as a good successor without question or doubt. And that she would carry on up the rungs of what he had gained.

      This is where I believe Alex was trusting in his innocence that under his wing NS thought and acted
      the same,

      He didnt dump us, he believed he was leaving us in the hands of someone who wanted independence as much as the rest of us,
      But she was deceitful in her long term plans to Alex and the rest of the old Snp,
      Alex simply trusted.

      Kindness, trust and understanding is not, in normal circumstances a crime, but in the politics of lies, deceit and msm propaganda set ups it can be made into a crime and at any date later on, and Alex and his family suffered for that trust.

    215. James Che says:

      Geri,
      may I add she fooled most of us for a long long time, although we were not so politically close to know her character,

    216. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Ebok & Dorothy –

      We were promised a vote next year and only the terminally gormless believe it will happen.

      I’m suggesting that we abandon the system in protest. Until it’s fixed. Zero participation. We withdraw cooperation at the most basic level possible – if that’s by spoiling ballots, fair enough, but completely bodyswerving the process is next-level.

      This business of having a ‘minimum’ turnout or hurdle for ‘winning’ is so ingrained in us all that it’s difficult to think outside it. But it should, in theory, be just as meaningful t’other way around – if less than 50% of the electorate bother to vote, is the government legitimate? If it can be proved that x% of eligible voters knowingly boycotted an election, what does that mean? What % of ballots have to be ‘spoiled’ before a result is rendered null?

      I’m just floating this stuff because the current situation is intolerable.

      There is only one vote we want and need – we should forswear voting *at all* until that promised referendum has been completed, regardless of the result.

    217. James Che says:

      Breastplate,

      To Add to that, the vaccines had not completed there required trial period before the vaccine profiteers let loose and finished the trial on a unwitting public without warning in place,

      It is a crime against humanity needing some nuremberg style investigations.

    218. Tinto Chiel says:

      @Stoker 12.24: I am pretty sure that if Alex Salmond had remained in charge in 2016, he would have cited the removal of Scotland from the EU via Brexit as just about the most serious breach of the Treaty of Union possible and taken full advantage of the situation to get us out of the dreadful situation we were in.

      It’s such a pity he handed things over over to his walking, talking “Plan B”.

    219. James Che says:

      Ian Brotherhood.
      Ebok.
      Dorothy.

      The concept is interesting.

    220. Tinto Chiel says:

      Shoulda been “dreadful position”.

    221. James Che says:

      I don’t think NS was his plan B,

      When you look at the TV footage of Alex afterwards he looked devastated that plan A had not succeeded, he was genuinely despondent.

      But he again placed his trust in the British voting franchise being honest,
      There was complete confusion on where our votes were being transported to and by whom through the night after the referendum,

      Even now BJ on TV claimed the rusks interfered with the Scottish referendum, but fails to offer the Scots a new referendum that has not been interfered with,
      With this knowledge in his head, of a interfered with scottish election vote, the honest thing for Westminster to do would be instantly to rectify that, you would think…

      But westminster seems to like interference in Scottish referendum votes,
      Something very similar happens to be taken place in that other country we are supplying money and weapons to,
      Interference by the same set of political players, I think BJ likes these kinds of referendums.

      Voting and honesty do not seem to be compatable bedfellows nowadays if we listen to BJ.

      Alex simply trusted westminster to much.

    222. James Che says:

      Who owns the franchise get to count or discount our votes.

      Its not the voters that count…its who counts the votes.

    223. Andy Ellis says:

      @John Main 2.49 pm

      The only sense I can read into Ruby’s post of 1:28 is that she thinks we are virgins who don’t know what a dick looks like.

      I think I see the problem there…….

    224. Andy Ellis says:

      @ Breastplate 1.56

      Ellis. You are the one shouting ‘burn the witch’.
      Wake the fuck up!

      I’m wide awake. I’m also not the one punting a-scientific anti-vaxxer woo-woo. Those who have bought in to the narrative that there was a grandiose plot, and that vaccination was unnecessary, or a big Pharma plot, or is unsafe have much more in common with unreasoning witch burners of old.

      Nothing to see here: regressive is as regressive does.

    225. Merganser says:

      Tinto Chiel @ 3.37. Quite so.

      Sturgeon’s problem is that she has no Willie. Thatcher had a Willie. Blair had a Willie, though his name was John.

      Sturgeon has a John. But he’s not a Willie. First Ministers need a proper Willie – one that will stand up to them.

      Sturgeon has had a free hand. She hasn’t had a Willie to hold her to account like Blair’s Willie or Thatcher’s Willie did.

      Sturgeon will never have a Willie though. She’ll always be a solo act.

    226. robertkknight says:

      @3:37,Tinto Chiel

      Agree. Brexit was the chance for Holyrood to hold Westminster’s feet to the fire and tell them if they persisted in dragging the 62% in Scotland who voted Remain out the EU courtesy of a non-binding consultative referendum, then all bets were off.

      What did we get in the end?

      Sturgeon trying to stop England pursuing a hard Brexit and the Fat Controller, a.k.a Ian Blackford, spouting shite in the commons about not allowing Scotland to be dragged etc. etc.

      Paper f***ing tigers, the lot of ’em.

    227. James che says:

      Ian Brotherhood.

      It actually says all you need to know with regards the Nusnp,
      Here we are suggesting that voters through one form or another boycott certain elections,

      A yet the union Nusnp have had ample opportunity to boycott westminster over many issues and many times.

      The present system of voting related to politics for the population is little more than a farce, fake democracy and a false front.

      This sham democracy in this country can be seen in the way Tories manoeuvreand remove a voted in prime minster by the people,
      For a prime minster that the Tory party chose, such as the recent Liz Truss,
      This was not the choice of the people and population of england, Wales and NI in their last election.

      The population vote was simply scrapped in favour of regime change in Westminster green benches.

      Scotland never gets whom it votes for due to the system,
      But neither did England, Wales and Northern Ireland,
      They would have been just as well boycotting their elections too.

    228. Republicofscotland says:

      The latest from Billy Smart’s circus, I mean the SNPs conference.

      “SNP conference has overwhelmingly passed a resolution calling for the party to support the adoption of a code of conduct for the Yes movement.

      The motion, titled “Independence principles – building our civic movement”, was moved by SNP president Michael Russell and seconded by SNP MSP Karen Adam.”

      We have to remember that the SNP isn’t the indy movement, infact the SNP isn’t even an indy party anymore, Brexit put that beyond any doubt.

      We cannot allow the SNP to set any code of conduct on Scottish independence, they’ll shutdown any form of dissent, and try to exclude any party or person who doesn’t adhere to their code.

    229. Republicofscotland says:

      “Plaid Cymru’s Liz Saville-Roberts
      “It’s so good to be among people politically who you know are thinking along the same lines as you.”

      Plaid Cymru’s Westminster leader Liz Saville-Roberts had never been to SNPconference before but, within minutes of walking into The Event Complex in Aberdeen (TECA), you could tell she felt right at home among like-minded politicians.”

      I get the distinct feeling that Wales will be well shot of England, and Ireland with be reunited with the North, long before Scotland becomes an independent nation with these treacherous clowns in charge.

    230. Ruby says:

      Andy Ellis says:
      9 October, 2022 at 4:15 pm

      @John Main 2.49 pm

      The only sense I can read into Ruby’s post of 1:28 is that she thinks we are virgins who don’t know what a dick looks like.

      I think I see the problem there…….

      Would you be prepared to tell me what problem you see?

      I certainly see a problem with a poster who reads my post and immediately thinks of his penis & yours and considers what I might think of them.

      That combined with referring to me as pubes really is very creepy.

      This is your chance to prove you are just a cunt and not a creepy cunt.

    231. Geri says:

      Ebok, that definitely sounds like a plan for both parliaments to me.

      Pros:

      No party at all which is really what independence is all about – a broad church not affiliated to one single political party. Indy folks in Holyrood.
      It would certainly cut out the *I can’t stand X or I’d vote for indy’ bs.

      At Westminster – would cut out the schoolboy tactics of name calling.

      As for all the % hoops indy has to jump through – Kwasi Kwarteng said (when Bojos removal vans were rolling up in the background & telling bare faced lies BoJo was still safe)
      ‘A win is a win’ ‘As the great Winston Churchill said, 50+ 1. It’s all we need for a win’

      So if it’s good enough for Tories – it’s good enough for everyone else. Brexshit was only 52.

      I’ll not be voting SNP to WM. It’s useless. Clear the whole lot out.
      We didn’t need Indy there for the last one.

      As for Alex – I know he said he’d step down but he should’ve held for better Together actually delivering what they promised or declared the result void. But, of course, hindsight is a wonderful thing & I fell for Sturgeons bullshit up until 2018 when her bs at the *women for indy* AGM Q & A had her as guest. Her whole strategy was for us to ‘keep making the case’ Asked what her plans were if WM just repeatedly said *now is not the time* Well its ‘up to all of us to convince her otherwise’

      Haud it! We’re not the ones with a mandate & a team of lawyers! Isn’t that her fkn job?

      Then Smyth ‘Aye we have a mandate, we never gave a time when we’d use it – so shut it & stop ruining the independence movement. Yer all abusive McBots ruining my day’

    232. Breeks says:

      robertkknight says:
      9 October, 2022 at 4:44 pm

      Sturgeon trying to stop England pursuing a hard Brexit and the Fat Controller, a.k.a Ian Blackford, spouting shite in the commons about not allowing Scotland to be dragged etc. etc.

      With the benefit of hindsight, do you suppose that’s what it was really about? Because take away all the SNP’s hot air and impotent rhetoric about England’s Brexit, (the “noise” that made it look like the SNP were doing something), and all you’d have left is Sturgeon’s SNP doing absolutely NOTHING for Scotland. We’d have been deafened by the silence.

      Ireland constructed their backstop from the Good Friday Agreement. Where was Scotland’s backstop from the Claim of Right? Scotland could have halted Brexit dead in its tracks.

      Brexit wasn’t an opportunity missed by incompetence; Brexit was opportunity wilfully subverted and completely neutered as a lever for driving forward Scottish Independence… and it was neutered by Sturgeon the Betrayer.

      We have a (t)ractor at the helm, a living, breathing turncoat, who has systematically attacked and destroyed nearly every strength which the YES movement ever possessed.

      Everything, from the pride of the 2014 cybernats and blogosphere, right across the spectrum of unity and discipline which defined the whole YES movement, Sturgeon and her clique of rogues have done their level best to attack, provoke, and wreck it all. Not to mention the stitch up of Alex Salmond.

      Then there were Cherry’s Constitutional successes… An opportunity for Scotland to set a constitutional cat amongst the pigeons by revoking Article 50 unilaterally, but no, all opportunity pissed up the wall, and Cherry ostracised and sacked.

      Name me one aspect of the mighty YES movement which Sturgeon hasn’t spoiled. Just one! Even the much loved YES logo of 2014 and ubiquitous Pantone 300 on everything, had to be changed.

      There HAS to be a reckoning for this. Get this (t)ractor out of our midst, then decide what’s to be done with all the mealy mouthed apologists for Sturgeon, all those WGD type sycophants who have actually been the essential facilitators for the SNP’s disembowelment and the YES movement’s disassembly.

      If people don’t see this picture in all it’s squalid detail, then they’re just not looking hard enough. Sturgeon HAS GOT TO GO!

      We must also prevent the work of SALVO being being “adopted” as SNP strategy. SALVO can win a Plebiscite Election with a binary YES vote for Independence. The SNP are already eyeing up the Westminster gravy and will throw a plebiscite election under a bus.

    233. Republicofscotland says:

      “SNP MP Stewart McDonald says it’s been a “joy” to have his “good friend” Reinhard Bütikofer MEP at the conference”

      I bet it has, McDonald is a Westminster puppet doing Whitehall’s dirty work for it.

      His “good buddy” is a member of the Aspen Institute Germany is one of the leading U.S. influence networks in Germany, making sure the central political and economic decisions are made in an elite setting behind closed doors, and in the interest of U.S. corporations.

      And he’s also a member of, as is Alyn Smith and McDonald himself.

      The Inter-Parliamentary Alliance on China is a U.S. led effort to organize worsened relations between U.S. allies and the People’s Republic of China, to secure continued hegemony

    234. James Che says:

      Republicofscotland.

      Their code of conduct would and could only be active legally for the snp Party,

      And they are not one of us, any more than we are one of them in the Snp party.

      The code of conduct cannot be a law passed by courts and law makers for all or random people in Scotland as it would be racist in singling out those People this side of the british border.

      It is not within the law to presume in advance that every one will or does intend joining the political Snp party.
      The party cannot therefore claim legal hold or rights over individuals or over Sovereign people.
      Their code of conduct is not legal for all people that want independence and may infringe on other human rights.
      For most of the independence movement have already stated that the Snp are not one and the same as us,

      It is a illegal attempt at controlling the scottish people and would not be plausable in a court of law, especially if some of those in the independence for scotland movement are from other countries, other nationalities, including England, Wales
      Does this code of conduct interfere with the laws from england’s peoples rights, american peoples rights , france or germany peoples rights, or with Muslins rights for instance.

      If it is just to cover the race of Scots, then it is indeed racist.

      And what authority is given in Scots law to bracket and catorgorise people into segregated cliches?

    235. twathater says:

      Ian B every one of these proposals has legitimacy and would be an example of the real power the electorate could use, the biggest problem is getting enough people onside and willing to co-operate, we on WOS BTL are a miniscule number when it comes to the population as was evidenced at the routing of ALBA at the last election

      Salvo the SSRG and Liberation.Scot are avenues that could illustrate the power of the people and I have great faith that their proposals would benefit the movement immensely, BUT their power comes from the people and not enough people know about them and even those who do are apathetic about signing up to the cause

      The biggest opposition to Indy is the broadcasters and msm who have and are continuing to mute and ignore ANYTHING about indy and until they are FORCED to tell the truth we will go nowhere

      Whatever happened to the court cases Alex Salmond promised after his aquittal , Scotland and Scots are dying and suffering untold hardships through Sturgeon’s cowardice and incompetence she HAS to be EXPOSED and TOPPLED, NOW is the time Alex to save Scotland

    236. James Che says:

      I could envisage a multitude of court case against the snp for attempting to yellow star the people of Scotland in to a ghetto group.

    237. Republicofscotland says:

      “Angus Robertson: “Last year, the issue of a Scottish independence referendum was decided by the electorate in the Scottish Parliament elections.

      “A record majority of MSPs were returned to Holyrood, elected with a mandate that a referendum should be held.””

      This is the guy who told a French tv channel in an interview that he doesn’t think they’ll be an indyref next year, the worst kept secret in Scotland.

      Meanwhile Robertson fired up the clapping seals with the usual rhetoric today.

      “Angus Robertson says the facts show that “similarly-sized neighbouring and comparator nations are: Wealthier, some much wealthier, than we are as part of the UK”. ”

      Robertson handed over to Horse Box Mike who kept the speel going.

      “Michael Russell says “there is no great in Great Britain” and that Scotland can either choose to “decline with the UK or prosper as a small, independent, normal country within the EU”.”

      Horse Box Mike finished with a big fat lie.

      “Don’t ask when the campaign is starting, we are the campaign”, says Michael Russell.”

    238. Geri says:

      Repubicofscotland 4:58pm.

      100% agree or we’ll have it spouted back to us on repeat like *once in a generation* is.

      SNP can feck off & make all the codes they like for the SNP but not for the Yes movement.

      Who the feck do they think they are?
      For a long time now they act like they own the movement.

    239. Shug says:

      If the SC decision is against Indyref2 then alba must call a convention to challenge it.
      The recent convention in Dublin is inspirational and you need to watch it.
      Salvo implemented by alba

    240. Republicofscotland says:

      We can’t end the today at the three-ringed circus aka the SNP conference, with Blackford’s wise words.

      “THE Labour and Tory Parties are engaging in the “same dog-whistle” pro-Brexit politics which have damaged ordinary Scots, the SNP’s Westminster leader has said.”

      Blackford is of course correct, but he omits his own party has been doing the same, wasting mandate after mandate, dangling the indy carrots, not to mention the disappearing 600K.

    241. Tinto Chiel says:

      @Merganser, robertkknight, Breeks: yup, with AS’s political experience and amiable, persuasive personality he could have led a charm offensive to gain EU support (before the EU became a NATO surrogate) and fought the good fight at home to harden the 62% vote into a clear majority for independence, despite MSM opposition and attempts at electoral gerrymandering/dirty work at the crossroads.

      Instead NS got in her big yella bus and tried to save England from itself.

      We could have been living in an independent Scotland from about 2018 onwards, I think, if Alex had stayed the course and made the most of his leadership skills.

      It’s enough to make you weep.

    242. Mark Boyle says:

      Andy Ellis says:
      9 October, 2022 at 9:21 am

      It’s because a small coterie of moonhowlers, conspiracy theorists, ill-informed Treaty of Union obsessives, anti-vaxxers and shills for Vlad soil the BTL discourse, other those who disagree with them and abuse and cunt call them at every opportunity.

      The low lives often have the place to themselves unless there are any grown ups around to school them. A sad end to once important pro-independence resource.

      Afternoon Andy, and yes, have to all intensive purposes given up on this place.

      When the owner can find time to make posts trolling the Sarwars and reexercising his perpetual butthurt that Deputy Dugdale beat him in court (get the fk over it, move on), but can’t find the time to pay tribute upon the passing of the great Ian Hamilton QC/KC – without whom (and “They What Took IT!”) arguably Scottish nationalism would never have taken off again – or for that matter say two words of thanks to the wee woman that ran his bloody fundraiser stall for an age says it all as to what this place has become.

      Message received and understood, Rev only cares about Rev now. Fine, signing off.

      I notice old Lochside gave notice of quitting here a few weeks back – probably because returning only to find Hatuey and Scott both trolling people with the exact opposite of what they were saying years ago when they were trolling him has made Lochside realise the owner only cares about being about to brag in perpetuum his is the most visited Scottish nationalist website, blah blah blah, and not if it takes hobby trolls’ clicks to achieve it.

      The moonhowlers, Jew-baiters, cranks and sundry other workshy F5 button mashing elements he prefers are welcome to this, and he’s welcome in turn to the tarnishing of his own legacy coming with it – a man is known by the company he keeps.

      I’ll leave you though with a link to Glasgow’s Yestival, put up by The Scotsman newspaper.

      https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x8eaxp8

      Apparently an Edinburgh newspaper could find the time and energy to send a reporter and cameraman to an event in Glasgow’s George Square whereas the less than a mile away Herald/National achieved neither, relying on press releases and others photos instead. Ho hum.

      Tommy Sheridan in good form (as was Mary McCabe, doing her best Liam Gallagher at the mic impression …), and very nice of him to mention the deputy leader of the ISP – more than she’d have done for him. Oh Tommy, Tommy, what a waste – you were a silly boy who made some very bad choices for friends, but I still hope one of these days you come roaring back with a vengence to comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable, because no one else did THAT better up here. But a POLLOK Juniors shirt? Think your last club Benburb will be a wee bit pissed about that one …

      Nice to see the banners of the old guard there – the Scottish Republican Socialists and Siol nan Gaidheal – but let’s be honest, the overall turnout was no better than the infamous Orangefest of 2015 we all had a good laugh over. The entire forces of Scottish nationalism outwith the SNP and its puppets are naught but a collective speck on the horizon – Alba, ISP, SRSM, SnG, Salvo, Uncle Tom Cobbley Sheridan and All – and despite all that’s happened lately that’s not changing any time soon.

      ‘The thrill is gone – and we’ll never get it back’

    243. Republicofscotland says:

      ‘Energy-rich Scotland will take no lectures from the PM on the security of our nation’s power supply’

      Said the king of winning VONC’s John Swinney thanks to the Greens.

      What Swinney should have said is that we’ll take no lectures on how to sellout Scots when it comes to giving our energy away, and he could’ve cited the Great Scots Wind Giveaway as a prime example.

      Sturgeon the betrayers right hand man added.

      “But Swinney will tell delegates: “Scotland is a nation rich in energy resources. We have a plentiful ­supply of clean, green, affordable ­renewable energy. The equivalent of almost 100% of our electricity demand is from renewable sources. Not only is Scotland self-sufficient in natural gas, we are a huge exporter.

      “Scotland is secure in energy”

      How can this be when Scots pay through the nose for energy,
      and will continue to do so. Of course, we all know Sturgeon and Swinney have sold Scots out not just on energy but on just about everything else.

      Looking at Swinney’s photo in the link I wonder if he practices that stern look of concern in his bathroom mirror every morning in an attempt to fool the indy masses.

      https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thenational.scot%2Fnews%2F23034056.energy-rich-scotland-will-take-no-lectures-pm-security-nations-power-supply%2F

    244. Ruby says:

      https://archive.ph/ZAJG8

      SNP faces unhealthy row over conference sponsors
      Fringe events giving platform to groups such as Coca-Cola will be damaging for public health message, party is warned

      The intervention follows the last-minute cancellation of a pro-vaping event at the SNP conference after Peter Murrell, the party’s chief executive, was challenged by Ash Scotland, the anti-smoking charity.

      A spokesman for the SNP said it did not organise fringe events “and as such the content of the listings and the meetings may not reflect the views of the SNP.

      This is a very feeble excuse. They don’t organise fringe events but they do have the power to have them cancelled.

      Lucky for them Ash Scotland got in touch with Peter Murrell!

      If they don’t organise fringe events they could end up with a big surprise I’m thinking it would be fun if Alba had a fringe event. ‘Pierre Pantoufle’ would have a fit! 🙂

    245. John Main says:

      Republic

      “Scotland is secure in energy”

      Lots of posters earlier claiming blackouts are acoming.

      Who’s right?

      I mean, blackouts during a period of energy security – does not compute.

    246. Hatuey says:

      The tragedy of energy and most other industries in Scotland is that almost everything is processed and distributed via England. That’s intentional, of course, and very typical of a colonial relationship.

      The English establishment don’t want to build or develop anything here that would encourage or facilitate independence, so everything must go south first and then come back to us via channels that they control.

      It’s tragic because it leaves Scotland industrially underdeveloped and totally dependent on England, even when it comes to the things that are in abundance here.

      Oil is slightly different in that some of it is processed in Scotland but it might as well be in England as far as control and distribution is concerned.

      Scotland is an abused wife who has inherited untold wealth and riches; that’s great, but her husband won’t let her anywhere near it and he won’t spend it in any way that encourages or facilitates her departure.

    247. Republicofscotland says:

      I see Brillo’s back, aka Andrew Neil, he now has a new political slot on Channel 4, after ditching the UK propaganda channel GB news. Brillo’s programme is on right now.

    248. Republicofscotland says:

      Main.

      I’ll clear it up for you though you’re probably just acting the goat as they say.

      Scotland has an abundance of energy, and if we had ditched this God awful onesided union we’d have more control of it, as it is Westminster calls the shots on energy, and Sturgeon the betrayer appears happy with that, so we’ll pay through the nose for it.

    249. Ruby says:

      Mark Boyle says:
      9 October, 2022 at 6:15 pm

      Andy Ellis says:
      9 October, 2022 at 9:21 am

      Afternoon Andy, and yes, have to all intensive purposes given up on this place.

      Message received and understood, Mark Boyle only cares about Mark Boyle now.
      Why do you suppose Ellis is hanging on?

      Ever thought of setting up a word press site where you and Andy could promote independence without all the moonhowlers, conspiracy theorist, treaty of Union obsessives, anti-vaxxers, shills for Vlad,low lives and that Stuart Campbell not coming up with the articles that you want to read.

      You could even write an article about the great Ian Hamilton QC/KC on your very own blog.

      When life hands you lemons make lemonade!

      Cheerio & Good Luck with your ‘Lemonade Stall’ or whatever it is you decide to call your blog.

    250. Republicofscotland says:

      Sturgeon the Betrayer backtracking on Channel 4 news, over her detest the Tories remark that she said at conference to appease the clapping seals. She now says that she detests their policies and not them.

      Interviewer asked Blackford if he detested the Tories he smiled and said no, no surprise their then from Blackford, who said he loves the cut and thrust of Westminster.

      Interviewer asked Shona Robinson, Johns Swinney and Mike Russell if they detested the Tories, they all obfuscated in their answers, but none said outright that they did.

    251. Ruby says:

      https://archive.ph/hVsLs

      Scots social security agency to use ‘spy cameras’

      Scotland’s new social security agency, which the SNP promised would take a fairer line than the UK government on benefits, is to use undercover surveillance to track and film the movements of people it suspects of cheating the system.

      Opposition parties have condemned Nicola Sturgeon’s administration after Social Security Scotland advertised for a “covert operations team leader”. The “counter-fraud” measures will include conducting “static, foot and mobile surveillance” and using “covert recording equipment to capture footage of subjects of surveillance”.

    252. Dan says:

      Republicofscotland says: at 7:09 pm

      Sturgeon the Betrayer backtracking on Channel 4 news, over her detest the Tories remark…

      And the FM takes an early yellow card straight off the bat for an early SNP code of conduct in campaigning fail…

    253. Republicofscotland says:

      This is the Betrayer for you, her Lord Advocates a gutless and spineless unionists deferred to a foreign country’s 2009 constructed court (UKSC), when we have a perfectly fit for purpose Court of Session, now again Sturgeon the betrayer proves that she’s not fit for the job of FM.

      “They ‘asked’ London if it was okay!

      The Home Office has blocked Sturgeon’s Scottish visa pilot which would have allowed businesses in remote and rural communities an exemption from UK immigration rules over hiring EU and other foreign nationals.”

      https://twitter.com/Grouse_Beater/status/1579034229908070400?cxt=HHwWgIDTnYPR7ekrAAAA

    254. Republicofscotland says:

      I don’t know if this has been commented on but…

      “Iain Macwhirter’s final column for the Herald: ‘The world has turned and I must turn with it. It’s been a hell of a ride’ (He wrote for the paper for 22 years.)”

      I wonder if NewsQuest passed on to Catherine Salmond that MacWhirter had to go after his recent foot in mouth comments.

      https://twitter.com/Grouse_Beater/status/1579033702621147136?cxt=HHwWgMDT0aqy7ekrAAAA

    255. Republicofscotland says:

      The clapping seals get fewer and fewer every year I wonder why.

      https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FejQ6qsX0AIgyum?format=jpg&name=small

    256. Republicofscotland says:

      Dan @7.32pm.

      Yes indeed Dan.

    257. Republicofscotland says:

      Some good piccys of the Yestival in Glasgow on Saturday, the two guys sporting the full highland regalia stand out.

      Anway Neil Hanvey relayed this to the crowd, when the speaker of the house Sir Linsay Hoyle kicked him out for standing up for Scotland (Alba) not the SNP.

      “Alba’s Westminster leader Hanvey told the crowd: “When I was leaving the chamber when we were told we either shut up or get out, I looked Dominic Raab and Boris Johnson square in the eye and I told them: Scotland’s independence is happening and there is nothing you can do to stop it.”

      https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thenational.scot%2Fnews%2F23034488.pro-independence-yestival-hears-tories-can-nothing-stop-independence%2F%3Fref%3Drss

    258. Pete Wishart says:

      https://twitter.com/marcuscarslaw1/status/1577726795180380160

      There are Albist true believers who can not accept just how unpopular Alex is amongst the Scottish electorate. There may be a place for another Indy party but it won’t be one with Alex in charge and a set of hateful ‘bloggers’ as his lieutenants.

    259. Ebok says:

      Republicofscotland says:
      9 October, 2022 at 7:28 pm
      ‘The world has turned and I must turn with it’

      Just as Alfred Housman wrote in this poem a century ago

      The laws of God, the laws of man,
      He may keep that will and can;
      Not I: let God and man decree
      Laws for themselves and not for me;
      And if my ways are not as theirs
      Let them mind their own affairs.
      Their deeds I judge and much condemn,
      Yet when did I make laws for them?
      Please yourselves, say I, and they
      Need only look the other way.
      But no, they will not; they must still
      Wrest their neighbour to their will,
      And make me dance as they desire
      With jail and gallows and hell-fire.
      And how am I to face the odds
      Of man’s bedevilment and God’s?
      I, a stranger and afraid
      In a world I never made.
      They will be master, right or wrong;
      Though both are foolish, both are strong.
      And since, my soul, we cannot fly
      To Saturn nor to Mercury,
      Keep we must, if keep we can,
      These foreign laws of God and man.

      And inspiration for Dr John’s ‘World I never made’?

    260. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Weak Pishart @ 7.59pm.

      You and your like – the true believers of today’s SNP are unfit tobe considered in the same breath as Alex Salmond. Your party, helped by the Unionist media has done its best to ruin Scotland’s best advocate for Independence. You should feel proud of yourselves.

      Alex was found innocent of all charges – yet between your Leader, the likes of you and the Unionist media, you have done your best to shut him down.

      He is, for all his faults, ten times the man and 100 times the politician you are. You should habve stuck to pop music.

    261. Dan says:

      Tweet thread from Alex Salmond earlier this evening.

      https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1579155364326813697.html

    262. Robert Hughes says:

      ” Scots social security agency to use ‘spy cameras’

      Scotland’s new social security agency, which the SNP promised would take a fairer line than the UK government on benefits, is to use undercover surveillance to track and film the movements of people it suspects of cheating the system. ”

      Hahahahaha , I mean , you GOTTA laugh eh ? Eh ?

      It’s like they were handed a list of all the things that were good and- at least to some extent – different about the SNP and told ” you have 20 years to get rid of all those things ” : and they managed to do so in 8 . That’s got to be a record for Political Party subversion

      This is Oceania Burlesque . Orwell redux as sinister farce .

      Big Sister couldn’t give a fuck about you Winston Jockland , yr free to be able to do nothing .Except vote SNP 4 Evah n Evah

      All about control innit ? Aye , it is

      Concentrate power into a tiny inner core .

      Create a cult of omniscience around a leader

      Eliminate any threats , real or imagined .

      Eliminate the ability of members to have input into policies ; or any kind of voice at all .

      Influence selection – ensuring only the wilfully compliant or too thick to notice/care get the gig .

      ( something of an innovation here ) Create and attempt to impose a Code of Conduct ie … control behaviour/speech – drawn-up by people with very strong biases and negligible public support

      If that’s not a winning formula for achieving Independence I don’t know what is . Eh ?

    263. stonefree says:

      Who is Pete Wishart ?

    264. Merganser says:

      Pete Wishart @ 7.59.

      If you had an ounce of decency or dignity you would be expressing regret for what was done to Alex to make him end up in this position, not gloating about it. You know the facts. You don’t have the balls to tell the truth or there would be no trough for your snout.

      For someone with no integrity you should give up pontificating and just carry on licking Sturgeon’s boots until you get your pension.

    265. Robert Louis says:

      Have to say, not a fan od Sturgeon, but I do agree with her. I too detest the Tories and everything they stand for. They are the lowest of the low, and have zero scruples or sense of right and wrong. So, in this one very specific instance, I totally agree with her.

      Indeed, I think their are precious few right minded folk who like the Tories. Oh, and just for clarity, by extension I also detest folk that vote Tory, because they enable these lying, murderous, racist, thieving, greedy, greedy, greedy Tories in Westminster.

      On freezing cold winter nights when those same Tories start switching off your heating and electricity, due to their criminal incompetence, corruption and greed, and despite the FACT that Scotland produces much more power than it needs, most sane Scots will also say that they detest the Tories and all they stand for.

      I really can’t see what the fuss is about. Tories are *****, and we all know it, Ciaran.

    266. Stoker says:

      Ruby says on 9 October 2022 at 1:50 pm:

      “Freeze state pensions and slash ‘non-frontline’ NHS and schools staff, said No 10’s economic adviser”

      “More good news for the independence campaign! Although the weird thing is the more good news we get the more the support for independence stays the same.”

      See, Ruby, i keep seeing folk stating that. But not once have i seen a link to a reliable source stating it. I’m not saying it’s not true but i’m tired of seeing claims being thrown around on here without trustworthy evidence.

      Anyway, i tend to see it as just the latest sitting duck opportunity deliberately squandered by the incompetent, and extremely questionable, skanks in the SNP. If support for indy has flatlined i wouldn’t be surprised in the slightest.

      The golden goose could personally hand a golden egg (opportunity) to Sturgeon every morning and she’d still demand carrots.
      __________

      Tinto Chiel on 9 October 2022 at 3:37 pm.

      I couldn’t agree more, TC.
      __________

      Here’s one for those who do Twitter. Go to Sturgeon’s Twitter account and ask her what she thinks of ‘Primark’ reviewing their “unisex” toilets/changing rooms policy and their reasons for doing so.

      Unfortunately, this link only tells one of the horror stories faced by real women. There’s no mention of the weirdo going around Primark’s “unisex” changing areas trying to get “up-skirt” pictures. https://archive.ph/o9Tye

      Anyone know if Peter Murrell was in Cambridge on these dates? LOL!

    267. Tinto Chiel says:

      @Dan 8.34: thanks.

      That about sums it all up.

      I’m thinking Pete Wishart might not be who I think he is 😉 .

      Rabbit-holes and all that…..

    268. John Main says:

      @Robert Hughes says:9 October, 2022 at 8:37 pm

      ” Scots social security agency to use ‘spy cameras’

      Scotland’s new social security agency, which the SNP promised would take a fairer line than the UK government on benefits, is to use undercover surveillance to track and film the movements of people it suspects of cheating the system.

      Hahahahaha , I mean , you GOTTA laugh eh ? Eh ?”

      Fucked if I really know, Bob, but as a taxpayer funding benefits for total strangers I will never meet, it does seem to me that one way of selling more generous benefits for genuine claimants to those mugs, sorry, beaten down taxpayers, who are footing the bill, might be to absolutely root out the cheats.

      Come to think of it; given a finite budget, even genuine benefits claimants might be in favour of rooting out the scam merchants – a bigger share of the pie for them and so on.

      Tell you what. I can’t actually think of any category of responsible, social justice seeking citizen, who would be in favour of a generous benefits system being ripped off by cheats. Nor any reason for them to be in favour of it.

      Maybes I am out of touch with Scottish public opinion. I don’t park my taxi in Disabled spaces either.

    269. Stoker says:

      Folks, the ‘Pete Wishart’ further up this thread at 7.59 pm is a spoof account. FFS! LOL!

    270. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Stoker (9.04) –

      The very fact that it’s hard to tell speaks volumes.

      Words are not enough to contain the sheer anger and disgust that so many of us feel right now.

      We are – literally – watching the most committed and experienced independence campaigners going to their graves.

      How many from this place alone? I don’t know, because 99% never make any comment at all, but we’re surely getting into double figures of regular contributors who have passed since the referendum.

      🙁

    271. Stoker says:

      @ Ian Brotherhood on 9 October 2022 at 9:28 pm

      Ain’t that the truth! It’s a very sad state of affairs.

    272. robertkknight says:

      Breeks @5:42

      Can’t disagree with anything you’ve said.

    273. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Stoker (9.52) –

      Nice wee cluster there…encouraging stuff.

      😉

    274. Stoker says:

      “It is agreed that nothing in this report prevents Scotland becoming an independent country in the future should the people of Scotland so choose.”

      Smith Commission Report 27th November 2014
      (Almost exactly 8 years ago)

      They obviously hadn’t heard of Sturgeon’s Nasty Party way back then. If only crystal balls and unicorns existed, eh!

    275. Ruby says:

      I presume these benefit cheats are claiming benefits & doing an undeclared cash in hand job out of desperation.

      What about the cheats who are employing these people. Why not spy on them?

      They could name & shame companies & political parties who employ these cheating companies.

      I’ll bet there are a fair few benefit cheats working at the SNP conference.

      Where do all the catering staff needed for these large one off events come from?
      What do they do for the rest of the time.

      How about all the illegal immigrants how are they surviving?

      Pretty sure they’ll be employed by companies who cheat.

      Tracking down all benefit cheats could be detrimental for the economy and the delegates at the SNP conference would have to make their own lunch and go home and clean their own house.

      Just how much money do ‘benefit cheats’ make?

      How much will the undercover surveillance, spy cameras, filming etc going to cost the taxpayer?

    276. Ruby says:

      SNP to employ officers to check all the Big Issue sellers & the folk begging for ‘spare change’ to ensure they are declaring their earnings and not cheating the benefit system.

      There will also be undercover surveillance of all trans people to ensure they are not cheating. If they are found cheating and only pretending to be a ‘woman’ they will be prosecuted.

    277. Dan says:

      @ Stoker at 9:04 pm

      Who knows for certain but over the past few weeks, a fair percentage of the vacuous comments made btl by said poster are word for word the same as some of PW’s tweets. Aye, tweets are easily copied and pasted, but this is a bit of a coincidence back the other way, so whether trolling or not it’s still worth saying what you want to say like Socrates did earlier as looks like the vain one reads in.

      https://wingsoverscotland.com/fire-water-burn/comment-page-2/#comment-2704311

      A couple of days later…

      https://twitter.com/PeteWishart/status/1571195747655364611

    278. Geri says:

      I’m getting sick to death of hearing thier shite while they do nothing to rectify any of it. Mandates gathering dust & the ‘look at what you could’ve won’ nose rub every fkn day.

      They’re scammers & they’re a danger to independence who will turn off what little is left. We’ll Give up. Become disenfranchised & think fck it! What’s the point?

      They’re like those street scammers. Everyone knows their game by round 1, 2 … Certainly not 8.

      ‘Roll up! Roll up! Here, Scotland – survey all you can win’
      *Scans all the top prizes (Scotlands resources/ better management etc, etc)*

      ‘Who wants a raffle ticket? They’re free to enter!’

      *Snaps up 8*

      ‘Aww, you didn’t win any of the top prizes but hey-ho, all is not lost, we’ve transferred those raffle tickets for you cause no one ever goes away empty handed, and you’ve won ..

      *drum roll*

      ‘Wooo hooo! It’s Self-ID!’

      ‘Whit?!! WTF? Where did that come from?!’

      *Fake applause fae the scammer crew*

      It’s becoming a standing joke now & taking us all down with it. Get these fakers out of office.

      As for Tommy, I like him. He was a no nonsense commentator during indyref & ran rings round the likes of Neil who’d be left stammering & resorting to his usual style of character assassination if all else fails – but Tommy never strayed from his message or went down the unionist rabbit holes they’d like to have lead him ‘Oil & gas .com, folks Check it oot!’ about 100 times in a 5 minute slot & etched on my brain forever LOL! Unlike the SNP who spends every TV slot taking pish, about 100 things, instead of driving home the one message they’re invited to do.

      I think we need to forget the SNP. It’s too far gone to even attempt saving.

      I like the idea of independents – they’d need to work together for the common cause & they’d individually be accountable at WTF they’re playing by the electorate if they want to be back for another stint in government. They’d need to stay on thier toes & earn thier keep. It’d prove quicker to eject one than a whole party. JMO.

    279. Geri says:

      Dan

      I’ve no doubt he’d read in. Just need to read his obsession verging on stalking of the Alba party. They can hardly go for a shit but he knows all about it.

      Sheds new light to his woe at me bs regards his kerfuffle with fundamundly. 100% most likely provocation from that institutionalised tant & waster of a good seat.

    280. Breeks says:

      Dan says:
      9 October, 2022 at 8:34 pm
      Tweet thread from Alex Salmond earlier this evening.

      https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1579155364326813697.html

      Just a few lines, but all that’s required to demonstrate the strength in depth of Alex Salmond.

      How did we ever manage to end up with our inspired Alex Salmond sidelined in the debate at such a critical juncture, while control was handed to the troughing charlatans in Sturgeon’s clique? Why have we tolerated this rolling debacle for eight years?

      To those of us disappointed that Alex stood down, don’t forget, he stood down to clear his name from the trumped up conspiracy to destroy him. Does that really count as free choice?

      It’s the UK Establishment who wanted Salmond out and Sturgeon in, and for eight years and counting we’ve been playing by their rules in their scripted pantomime.

      Thank the Lord there’s finally another show in town at last, but what is wrong with so many people that they still can’t see the SNP’s complete betrayal of the cause? “They” are the reason this farce has rumbled along unchecked. They are the reasons Independence is in such jeopardy. How many more pups must we be sold?

    281. thomas says:

      Oh dear. Mark Boyle seems completely butthurt that stuart campbell has an article once again slagging off the red tories in scotland.

      Why is that then mark? Could it be you and a number of others “softly softly catchee monkey” approach to tar the independence movement and guide our weary heads back towards new labour isnt working?

      He then goes on to have a whine about stuart campbell only caring about himself (its his site , he can write about what he likes without marks permission) and then goes on to look down his snot filled nostrils at the indy movement in general……the little people as he infers.

      Its the same people every time i read the comments on this site who have most of their fire aimed at the independence movement , with their doom and gloom , their divisiveness , scaremongering and perpetual hopelesness driving the animosity and infighting.

      Im thinking of the likes of boyle ,ellis , and of course Hatuey.

      Ignore them troops , heads up , and keep fighting.

    282. Robert Hughes says:

      Johnny Mainline’s unerring talent for grasping the wrong end of any given stick on display again ; here , read this bit again ….

      ” All about control ……”

      Whatever the OSTENSIBLE reason for ScotGov adopting yet one more tool of the Surveillance State , past ( and present ) experience shows it will never be limited to that use .

      But you’re probably a sucker for the ” Nothing to hide , nothing to fear ” line : just as you come across as one of those curtain-twitching anal- retentives who get all morally indignant at the thought of some unknown , hypothetical person – the bogeyman tabloid favourite ” scrounger ” – getting something for nothing ; simultaneously not at all bothered by the vast sums of public money given gratis to the – in your case , beloved – Windsor Uber-Ponces . Like THEY really need it

      Do you have a wee alarm that alerts you when an opportunity to nit-pick other people’s posts with petty little point-scoring comments occur ?

      Bet you’re the Captain of your local Neighbourhood Watch squad

    283. gregor says:

      re. Pete Wishart:

      “There are Albist true believers who can not accept just how unpopular Alex is amongst the Scottish electorate. There may be a place for another Indy party but it won’t be one with Alex in charge and a set of hateful ‘bloggers’ as his lieutenants.”

      Wikipedia: Brainwashing:

      “Brainwashing (also known as mind control, menticide, coercive persuasion, thought control, thought reform, and forced re-education) is the concept that the human mind can be altered or controlled by certain psychological techniques. Brainwashing is said to reduce its subjects’ ability to think critically or independently…”:

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brainwashing

    284. Ruby says:

      Alex Salmond
      @AlexSalmond
      ·
      16h
      If there was a serious political campaign to force their hand then I missed it. Sending the occasional letter to the occasional Prime Minister doesn’t cut it nor does fulminating at Westminster about what Scotland will or will not stand for and then doing absolutely nothing(7/15)

      That is exactly what I thought. No serious effort to gain section 30 just a load of drivel about ‘de facto referendum’.

      Shouting about how much you detest the Tories isn’t going to help.

    285. Geri says:

      Breeks,

      Nature hates a vacuum & all that..

      SNP is polluted with militants.
      I especially detest the new arrivals. Those *born again* types, who turn up late carrying a list of demands & who generally annoy the fk out of everyone else.

      We’ve all heard what they have to say & they repeatedly say Independence isn’t thier priority. Stands to reason they’re not independence supporters at all.

      Re Salmond. He was a man of principle. He said he’d step down if he lost & he did. I just wish to God he’d held fire & waited for the three amigos offers first – especially after watching the immediate backtracking from Cameron from day one & Gordon Brown fking off back to his crypt safe in knowledge he’d hee-haw authority to implement the absolute guff he’d spouted. Things may have turned out very different. I think we could at least guarantee our option for *Scots can hold a referendum if the majority of Scots vote for it* wouldn’t have just been a recommendation to uphold that gentleman’s agreement – but had it entered onto the books as legal & binding.
      But hindsight is a wonderful thing. The knives were out once he said he was making a comeback. Sturgeon was having none of it & she was pig sick at Cherrys rising star. Both had to go. A smear sex scandal will do the trick for one & we’ll try claims of WM group bullying for the other will see them both demoted.

    286. stuart mctavish says:

      Ruby @10:29pm

      Who knows what they can squeeze from lobby chums and grace and favour appointments following their ‘service’ but the official remuneration must be somewhere in the order of £150K/ year and twice that in tax free expenses.

      Irony being that if they’re sharp enough they could probably set up a similar system under indy and give themselves even better pay and conditions but the quid pro quo is that they risk facing (much?) closer scrutiny than they do currently.

      Of which, one intriguing aspect of the decision/ reflex to detest tories on same day as imposing a code of conduct on the campaign for independence is that FM (and arguably anyone excusing the sentiment) must now be disbarred from that campaign lest those policing the code face further ridicule and humiliation when trying to discriminate against more independent minds inclined to ‘detest’ any old Scots they like, or any perceived peccadilloes they dont.

    287. Merganser says:

      Stoker @9.04
      Dan @ 11.05

      We know it’s not the real Wishart, but there is a purpose in answering it as if it was because we know he reads Wings and it’s a way of reaching him direct so he knows people’s thoughts.

      Probably water off a duck’s back, but does no harm to remind him that people will not desist from their wish for the truth to be made public about what was done to Alex, and when it does come out all will know the spinelessness of so many who went along with it.

      Alright Pete?

    288. Ruby says:

      Primark reverts unisex changing rooms policy in face of huge online backlash following incident

      However, the fashion giant has still faced criticism as shoppers ask what its definition of “woman” is and ask for lockable doors instead of curtains. One Twitter user said: “This statement is meaningless unless you tell us how you define ‘woman’.” Another added: “Thanks but what do you understand by the word woman? And how much security and peace of mind to you really think is offered by a longer curtain? I think you can and should do better.”

      https://archive.ph/gtqpM

      This is what caused Primark to change policy.

      The thing is these men who pulled back curtains could just put on a dress and and Primark’s change in policy wouldn’t make any difference.

      Locked doors needed.

      Fitting locked doors to their changing rooms and keeping their unisex policy would be easier than trying to keep men out.

      The bigger problem is in gym/swimming pool changing rooms where people are naked. There are loads of these.

      The gyms I know of do not have cubicles and you just change in an open space. Putting on your swimming suit requires you to be naked.

      If this young women was very upset that two men pulled back the curtain while she was fully dressed what will happen if the shower curtain is pulled back by a naked ‘man’ while a young women is naked?

      Sturgeon claims this sort of thing will never happen.

      Men enjoy looking at naked women?

      Why would they go to a strip club or buy a magazine when they can go to their local swimming pool and get it all free of charge?

      Then there are men who get a kick out of exposing their penis. No need to worry about being charged just go along to your local swimming pool and where you can expose your penis to a whole group of women and children and absolutely nobody can complain.

      Why sneakily put your phone under the neighbouring locker when you can go to the ‘ladies’ changing room and film everything that’s going on. There are no restricts about using your phone in communal changing rooms. Who would know if you were checking their messages or filming.

      Sturgeon claims this won’t happen voyeurs, flashers & peeping toms are all a thing of the past they definitely wont be ‘changing their gender’ to get their kicks without the risk of prosecution.

      ‘changing your gender’ to gain access to women only spaces just requires you to put on a dress/loads of make-up.

    289. Breeks says:

      Geri says:
      10 October, 2022 at 11:00 am

      But hindsight is a wonderful thing. The knives were out once he said he was making a comeback. Sturgeon was having none of it & she was pig sick at Cherrys rising…

      I’m not sure what evidence of impending betrayal was apparent when Alex Salmond stood aside for Sturgeon. There’s that famous, possibly now infamous Hydro speech in 2014 when Sturgeon was fulsome in her praise for Alex Salmond.

      If only she’d been sincere, there was every reason to believe Scotland would have been in good hands. Aye… IF!

      But a what a chilling change in disposition very soon afterwards.

      “Something” either happened in 2014 / 15, or else Sturgeon was a pathological fraudster from the very beginning. I don’t actually care which. I cannot wait to see the back of her.

      If she really is being lined up for a job at the UN, sadly it would appear the UN’s vetting procedure is as faulty as the SNP’s. Scotland’s hindsight should serve as the UN’s foresight, to save embarrassment all round.

    290. Ruby says:

      https://archive.ph/1MjxU

      Nicola Sturgeon looks like a woman eyeing a dignified exit

      The first minister’s strategy for independence has been overtaken by events but if the referendum gambit fails it may offer her a way out

    291. Ruby says:

      Dan says:
      9 October, 2022 at 8:34 pm

      Tweet thread from Alex Salmond earlier this evening.

      https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1579155364326813697.html

      Thanks for that Dan

      The next time the Scottish independence question is put to the people you would want to do it on the home ground of a Scottish Parliamentary franchise and appealing for a mandate you intend to politically exercise rather than ignore. Alex Salmond

      Ooft! You can understand why she would want rid of him.

    292. christine says:

      To think that Scotland was once renowned for its leading thinkers, philosophers and writers in the Age of Enlightenment when the battle cry was “ Sapere Aude “ – dare to be wise, have the courage to use your own reason. It was widely used as a motto, especially in educational institutions.

      The ridiculous beliefs Sturgeon the betrayer of womens’ rights ( my placard of choice at the recent demo ) adheres to that men can change their sex by Self-ID have no reason and where the laws of cause and effect hold no sway. This is the stuff of the dystopian future Orwell truly tried to warn us against.

      Take note at her keynote speech to the dwindling faithful and empty seats. Take note of that angry smile, highly controlled but hidden behaviours and which derives genuine pleasure out of frustrating others. Take note of how she specialises in deception with 8 years worth of meaningless mandates.

      Take note of the lies. It’s easy to stretch the truth in general but hard to do so in detail. Her performance at the Alex Salmond Inquiry is a classic example. Her recall for details was piss poor. Most of her diatribe was the equivalent of “ no comment “ throughout. Compare and contrast with Alex Salmond who could easily recall details because he was answering honestly.

      Take note of her abuse of power, where she has shown an utter disregard for the rule of law, justice and fairness and has done so unreservedly.Take note of all the abject failures of governance under her watch.

      Truth is a potent force, disturbing the complacent mind. How the fuck do we get the truth out there? We have no independent platforms of broadcasting, film making ( the Filmhouse in Edinburgh gone-WTF? ) or journalism. Scotland is a voiceless nation, mute and seems to be the only country in the world denied the right to have our culture, history and stories reflected back to us.

      “ The reason for evil in the world is that people are not able to tell their stories. “ Carl Jung

    293. Dorothy Devine says:

      Christine , beautifully put.

    294. James says:

      What a surprise, John Main -our resident Tory Brexiteer- supports spy cameras being used on benefit claimants but doesn’t mention the billions of pounds being creamed off by the biggest benefit scroungers of all, the MPs, royals, CEO’s and multinational tax-dodging companies all helped along by the red and blue Tories at Westminster.
      Tory Scum Out? Sounds ok to me….

    295. James Che says:

      Sooner or later,

      We cannot mend what is broken or cracked, and expect it to be as good as new or to hold the same value.
      Such as the snp,

      That is the problem of herding everyone towards AUOB, it then becomes controllable by governments and a easy target for a direct infiltration,

      We have witnessed this with the snp.
      And having been infiltrated they are now attempting to target the individual indy people under a false party code of conduct,

      The beauty of remaining individuals all moving in the same direction is there is no pinhead for the infiltraters to target or dissassimulate.
      It is a nation of like minded people, doing their own thing, to disjointed to capture,

      Perhaps that is the why the independence for Scotland movement has succeeded the centuries.

      For sure the snp was always in the sights of union minded people, should they start growing, should they show signs of success, should they show signs of majority, And that means the Snp would always one day be targeted,

      But the Snp was not the nation of Scotland, they were never the leaders of of the yes movement which is much more organic and evasive.
      The union minded have latterly understood this, or perhaps had to knobble the snp as stage one , once caught they hoped to use the Snp platform in a attempt to capture the rest of Scotland,

      The illegal code of conduct of a political party on all Scots tries to capture and encompasse the sovereign people of Scotland by deceit,.

      The crown sitting within the english legislated scottish devolved government of holyrood also hopes to capture the Sovereign people of Scotland in this code of conduct manoveure.

      We should never group together like a shoal of fish to be picked of by sharks.

    296. Geri says:

      Sorry Breeks, should’ve made clear I was referring to after Alex lost his seat at WM & had a stint at TV production – he made a sort of announcement he was returning to politics.

      Around the same time Cherry was receiving standing ovations at conference over her assemblies idea & conference had voted to have our own currency asap.

      Sturgeons face was fizzing. Her empire was under threat. Both of them had to go. Cue the breaking news those two were under investigation & we know the rest.
      Aye, pathologic fraudster sums her up. Narcs tend to mirror what gets someone praise & then copies it. Indy was obviously becoming a bore & she wasn’t receiving the adulation she’d become accustomed to, especially not during brexit with calls for her to use the mandate, she was under scrutiny by then & it turned out she was shit at everything, so she switched to a new cause with a new set of fans who’d trump her up & so her cycle continues..imo.

      The sooner indy wake up the better. From what I’ve seen on twitter this is her last sup in the last chance saloon & wait & see what SC decides. I don’t think they’re prepared for a naw & that particular loophole being closed permanently. Anytime it’s dared mentioned that is a possible outcome – the snowflakes start having a fkn tantrum & start blocking.

    297. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Anyone else have a feeling that today would be a good time for NS to announce a phased withdrawal from the top job?

      She may well be a sociopath but she’s not daft.

      Giving notice would get attention and underscore her availability for work.

      Ach well, we can but hope…

      🙂

    298. James Che says:

      Sooner or later it will occur to the indy groups of Scotland that the establishments are able to bat away any challenges at the latter end of the treaty of the union by using the their courts they set up in westminster using english laws over Scotland with the help and aid of a infiltrated snp.

      Sooner or later the indy groups will realise that the devolved government to Scotland is under england legislation.
      And therefore the crown of westminsters parliament presides in it.

      Sooner or later the Scottish people will wonder why the english government want to cover the old treaty of union with a new one.

      Sooner or later the Scots will realise that the original one must have large holes in it that England does not want Scotland to escape through.

      Its just a pity that the word “later” is placed before the word “sooner” in Scotland.

    299. James Che says:

      It is not the end part of the treaty of union that westminster or the establishment are worried about,

      It is the beginning of the treaty of the union that they are worried about, hence they are searching for ways to cover it up with a new one,

      England realises it has to go to the root head of the problem for the union between us to last,

      While Scotland is dithering about around the ass end where all the sh.t is.

      And we are kept busy this way looking at the wrong end of the problem,

      IF THE UNION WAS A SOLID LEGALLY BINDING TREATY THAT HELD SCOTS AND SCOTLAND.

      WHY IS WESTMINSTER LOOKING, TRYING AND ATTEMPTING TO MAKE A MORE BINDING NEW ONE WITH SCOTLAND ?

    300. Geri says:

      Ruby 12:36..

      He’s had a few subliminal swipes lol. Another ooft moment was him quoting Burns..

      Here’s freedom to them that wad read,
      Here’s freedom to them that wad write!
      There’s nane ever fear’d that the truth should be heard,
      But they whom the truth would indite.

    301. christine says:

      Dorothy 1:6
      Many thanks for saying that, much appreciated. I struggle not to use sweaty words but I am so fucking angry and disgusted by Sturgeon and her spineless MSPs and MPs. I will write to them before the first reading of the GRA Bill, which I think is 24th October. The SNP will never ever get my vote again.

    302. christine says:

      Oops, meant to say sweary words

    303. Geri says:

      James Che

      Because they looked to Spain for inspiration. Have it where no one can ever secede from the asset stripping mother ship. Forever.
      Under the guise of a new Act that can conveniently be passed by thier own WM majority or rubber stamped by the powers that be on our behalf because only they have the legislative powers & it’s far too important a topic for any consultation.

    304. Republicofscotland says:

      Interestingly the SNP conference had delegates from (404) yesterday addressing the audience, in all the years of SNP conferences, I can’t recall say a Palestinian or a Yemeni delegate get such support nor millions in funding from a Scottish government in a way that (404) has.

      Meanwhile.

      “Richard Lochhead spoke with The National about the massive “economic opportunity” offered by Scotland’s renewable energy resources. ”

      Yes we know Richard, who the opportunities are for, the big energy companies, and we also know that our renewable wind slots such as the Great ScotWind Giveaway, are up for grabs for a pittance, and that Scots don’t benefit in price reductions of thier energy costs one little bit.

    305. Republicofscotland says:

      This from John Swinney, addressing the clapping seals at the conference.

      “An upcoming paper from the Scottish Government will set out how people can have “financial confidence” in an independent Scotland, John Swinney has said. ”

      The reality is that the SNP can’t even find the 600k, and that the SNP are so skint that without Westminster’s short money they’d be in big trouble, another reason why their MPs will need to be dragged out of the HoC kicking and screaming for they won’t leave willingly that’s for sure.

    306. Republicofscotland says:

      Back to Lochhead, this is comedy gold from him. The SNP under Sturgeon the betrayer failed Scots years ago.

      “The “just transition” away from oil and gas will have failed if Scots are still living in fuel poverty in the years ahead, the Government minister in charge of the area has said.

      Richard Lochhead, the SNP Minister for Just Transition, Employment and Fair Work, told The National that it was key “no one is left behind” during the switch from fossil fuels to renewable energy.”

    307. Republicofscotland says:

      This is another reason among a myriad of reasons as to why Sturgeon the betrayer isn’t serious about Scottish independence.

      “He said the paper would contain “a lot of detail” on the economic arguments.

      Swinney was then asked for specifics on how long an independent Scotland would continue using sterling as its currency.

      The SNP proposes to use the pound for a period following independence before moving to a new Scottish currency.

      The Deputy First Minister said: “I think it’s been pretty well set out by the party – how long depends on the economic conditions that we experience and there are very defined tests about what stage we would move from using the pound to using a Scottish currency.””

      And a real economist shoots the above down, Sterlingisation will be very bad for the Scottish economy.

      https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thenational.scot%2Fnews%2F19713022.richard-murphy-three-questions-key-independent-scotlands-future%2F

    308. Republicofscotland says:

      From the SNPs three-ringed circus in Aberdeen.

      The results of the national office bearer posts being contested have been announced:

      National Secretary: Lorna Finn
      Organisation Convener: Jen Layden
      Local Government Convener: Kelly Parry
      Member Support Convener: Alexander Belic
      Equalities Convener: Kirsteen Fraser
      BAME Convener: Michelle Campbell

      Also returned unopposed were:

      President: Michael Russell
      National Treasurer: Colin Beattie
      Policy Development Convener: Toni Giugliano
      Women’s Convener: Julia Stachurska
      Disabled Members’ Convener: Andy Stuart

    309. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Here’s link for SNP Youtube channel.

      NS is due to speak at 3.15.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odBfMjxKCb0

    310. Republicofscotland says:

      And to think years ago when the SNP had a soul, that they would allow voting on whether or not to stay or leave Nato, not now.

      “Councillor Fatima Joji now moves a resolution calling on the Government to express solidarity with the women of Iran, where protests have erupted in the wake of 22-year-old Mahsa Amini’s death.

      Joji – “What happened to Mahsa was the very definition of femicide, which is murder of women because they are women.” ”

      Still no one standing up for the Palestinians or the Yemeni’s.

      Murder of women because they are women… hmm GRA, springs to mind, social media with men dressed as women holding weapons and proclaiming that they and like minded men dressed as women should kill a Terf. I wonder what Joji and Sturgeon for that matter thinks of that.

    311. Dorothy Devine says:

      Christine , I liked sweaty just as much!

    312. James Che says:

      SCOTLAND,

      PARCHMENT PRISONERS 300 YEARS OLD.

    313. Dorothy Devine says:

      FM getting a warm welcome in Aberdeen – I thought they were touting for folk to fill seats .

      That said I’m not sure of capacity someone may be able to enlighten me.

    314. James che says:

      Dororthy Divine.
      Christine,

      I thought the word sweaty just as good, fits well 🙂

    315. James che says:

      Geri,

      Do they have the legal legislative powers though ?

      As Alex Salmond questioned regarding the treaty of the union.

    316. Graf Midgehunter says:

      The Rev will be sitting comfortably sharpening the fangs of his teeth waiting for the “Coward of the Country” to fart out her monologue of how to avoid independence… 🙂

    317. James che says:

      Geri,

      Does a english government branch in Scotland have powers to pass english laws legislative or statues or other wise in Scotland without breaching the treaty of the union that exists.

      That 1707 treaty states that the law of scotland will remain as before, ie not englands laws.
      That England’s law would not be Scots law. And Scots law would not be Englands, they were to remain separate,

      The devolved government in Scotland is English made with English legislation.

      It is a intrusion of English laws, legislation and Statues into Scots law in Scotland through the devolved government,
      The devolved government is using English law, just by being in Scotland
      The devolved government, also due to being English accepts the Crown in its devolved parliament,

      Something that had ended in Scotland a long time ago under the declaration of Arbroath and under the Scottish claim of right written into the treaty of the union 1707.

      So the devolved parliament breaches the treaty of union 1707,
      Therefore does not have legislative authority in Scotland.

    318. James che says:

      Geri,

      The Crown cannot pass or give assent in any Scots law that NS, tories, labour, greens has been doing, as it is not Sovereign in Scotland under all the agreed terms of the treaty of union and claim of right.

      That is why Englands government are attempting to draw up a new Treaty of Union with the devolved government in Scotland.

      The only problem they have in making it legally binding with Scotland is that the devolved government is English legislated government.
      It would be creating a treaty with its own branch of government, not with Scotlands government.

      LEGERDEMAIN = slight of hand.

      In law

    319. Republicofscotland says:

      “There are two things that we the independence generation must never, ever lose faith in. They have sustained us through good times and bad.

      “The first is the fundamental right of the nation of Scotland for self-determination. And the second is what history teaches us, and that is the overwhelming power of democracy to triumph.”

      Said Sturgeon the betrayer of Scots, and the clapping seals love her for it. We’re totally f*cked whilst the betrayer holds office.

    320. Scott says:

      @ James Cheyne/James che/James Che./James Che

      Can you please stop going on about things you patently misunderstand?

      The people of Scotland voted in a referendum to enable a new legislature in Scotland.

      Bills passed at Holyrood become Acts – these are automatically given Royal Assent, unlike Acts passed at WM where ‘advice’ of Lords & Commons underpins everything (Parliamentary sovereignty), because laws only for Scotland are created on behalf of the people of Scotland not the Crown/Monarch (Popular sovereignty).

      Example 1 – Judicial Review and Courts Act 2022 (WM: UK wide Act)

      “Be it enacted by the Queen’s most Excellent Majesty, by and with the advice and consent of the Lords Spiritual and Temporal, and Commons, in this present Parliament assembled, and by the authority of the same, as follows:—”

      Example 2 – Succession (Scotland) Act 1964 (WM: Scotland)

      An Act to assimilate and amend the law of Scotland with respect to the succession to the heritable and moveable property of deceased persons; to amend the law in relation to the legal and other prior rights exigible out of such property, to the administration of deceased persons’ estates and other property passing on death, to the capacity of minors to test, and to the presumption of survivorship; to provide for certain testamentary dispositions to be probative; to provide for adopted persons to be treated for certain purposes as children of their adopters; to make new provision as to the financial rights and obligations of the parties on the dissolution of a marriage; and for purposes connected with the matters aforesaid.

      [10th June 1964

      Example 3 – Scottish Independence Referendum (Franchise) Act 2013 (Edinburgh)

      The Bill for this Act of the Scottish Parliament was passed by the Parliament on 27th June 2013 and received Royal Assent on 7th August 2013

      An Act of the Scottish Parliament to make provision about those who are entitled to vote in a referendum on the independence of Scotland, including provision for the establishment of a register of young voters for the purposes of such a referendum.

      WM already acknowledges in legislation that we the people of Scotland are sovereign, they just don’t say it out loud.

    321. James che says:

      Seeing as we do not actually have a Scottish government in Scotland at present, only a english devolved government….. to….Scotland.

      You have to question the legality of NS and the SNP passing any english legislation from the devolved government on Trans issues or freedom of speech or a code of conduct for indy groups.

      You also have to question has the decision of the SNP working for and under english law legislated devolved government legit in asking westminster for a referendum to detach itself from the head office in london,

      The snp are word smithing with the referendum debate.

      The people of Scotland are not answerable to the laws of England that rests, along with the Crown in the devolved branch office..to… and of Westminster,

      The concept of sovereignty within parliament is purely a english concept, their is no parallel in Scotland.

    322. Geri says:

      James Che

      Holyrood is WMs pup. It’s thier rules drawn up from thier contract, with thier T&C’s laid out in the Scotland Act (or bill, I can’t remember which one) Scotland agreed those terms under a Labour FM. It’s also in thier terms what’s reserved & what’s devolved.

      That’s why it’ll be a surprise to no one that the SC will rule it’s against the T&C of Holyrood & deem it beyond thier competence.
      This is also why Sturgeon missed yet another sitter when she allowed them to mess with devolved issues regarding Brexshit power grab. No Holyrood consent was given to tinker with them – but they did & Sturgeon did hee-haw about it. She could’ve & should’ve terminated the Scotland Act for a breach of contract & the stupid cow even had cross party support withholding thier consent too which would’ve forced thier hand & off the fence. But another golden opportunity missed by the dullards at SNP HQs.

      I’ve said before, the 1997 Claim of right applies.

      Do you have the government of your choosing? Yes.
      Do you have democratic elections to evict them if they don’t meet your needs? Yes.

      Well, there you have it.

      Scotland would need to ditch Holyrood & all the T&C’s that go with it & reconvene the REAL Scottish parliament before it can go back through the ages.

    323. AberdeenPict says:

      Dorothy Devine says:
      10 October, 2022 at 3:20 pm
      FM getting a warm welcome in Aberdeen – I thought they were touting for folk to fill seats .

      That said I’m not sure of capacity someone may be able to enlighten me.

      Hi Dorothy, The TECA (The events complex) can hold 10,000 seats and 15,000 total seated and standing. I have no idea how many were there at the conference.

    324. Geri says:

      Sturgeon will have her chain yanked from WM regards trans.
      She has no authority to change the Equality Act.
      They’re letting her play awhile cause it suits them to annoy Scotland with the added bonus its killing the independence movement.

    325. Geri says:

      Republic 3:12pm

      Wouldn’t that be because they’ve been silenced by IHRA?

      It’s forbidden to discuss Palestine. The Scottish government signed off on it & with that – all who sail in it too.

      They have new friends now.

      https://www.theguardian.com/news/2020/nov/29/palestinian-rights-and-the-ihra-definition-of-antisemitism

    326. James che says:

      Scott,

      You may perhaps misunderstand the treaty of the union,

      English laws are english, Scots laws is Scot law,

      The presentation to vote on a devolved English legislated parliament into Scotland was never explained to Scotland or england.

      Westminster certainly did not inform either side, in Scotland or England that by presenting this vote of a devolved english government to the Scots it would breach the treaty of the union.

      The other point you missed is that only Englands Parliament entered the new British parliament from 1706 to 1708 without ending session.

      This is why checking and studying the treaty of the union is so important from its conception to it mythical creation.

      There are a multitude of errors.

      No matter the ass end of the treaty of the union you have to question the beginning more thoroughly,
      Nothing can be legal in the devolved government nor the Scotland Acts if the Treaty of union itself is not legal. Has never been voted on by Scots.

      The Crown in the devolved government does not make it a Scottish government but a English one,
      Was that the question on the vote put to the scottish people.

      Do you want a English branch government in Scotland, to run Scotland?

      Especially if you have not yet been asked.
      Do you the nation and people of Scotland want to join the Treaty of the Union ?

      The struggle for being recognised in Scotland to be treated as a equal in the treaty of the union,
      Stems from the fact the scots were not asked to join, it has been a misnomer from start to finish, a sleight of hand legally = legerdemain.

      Do you never question the flaws in the treaty of union that makes anything that comes afterwards rather irrelevant.
      Including if we try follow word for word the treaty of the union articles as set out.
      Then we discover that the english parliament has breached the treaty articles many time over before we even reach the vote for a english devolved branch office government to Scotland.

      If only one piece of english law is relied on to hold true to a treaty or an Act then we have to consider that all law english law is above Scots law and therefore accurate to be held with the same regard..

      But then this acceptance has to uneqivocally include that Scotlands parliament was cancelled before entering into the British parliament. And thus the treaty of the union, the scottish session ended in 1707,

      However the english parliament session continued until 1708. Entering the British parliament on it own.

      To believe in the Scottish devolved government as a lawful british parliament Act, there first has to be two parliaments ( Scotlands and Englands ) that entered into the British parliament in 1707,

      There was no such happening,

      The new British parliament actually had a westminster debate on this, in the early years of the british parliament as it worried them that one day the Scots members that closed their parliament had not entered as equal entrees may discover that only Englands parliament had entered unscathed into the British parliament.

      If you do your own research before suggesting That information on the Scotland Act is incorrect, perhaps you will find out for yourself that the information on the Treaty of the union is incorrect as presented to us today.
      And that pre dates the Scotland Acts for the english legislated devolved government.

    327. Dorothy Devine says:

      Aberdeen Pict, thanks for the information. I was born and bred in Aberdeen but came to Glasgow when I was 17 to attend college and never returned except on wee visits, so I have no idea where this TECA is – please enlighten me.

    328. Scott says:

      @James Cheyne or whatever your name is…

      Laws made only for Scotland don’t contain the following clause

      “Be it enacted by the Queen’s most Excellent Majesty, by and with the advice and consent of the Lords Spiritual and Temporal, and Commons, in this present Parliament assembled, and by the authority of the same, as follows”

      The power of the ‘Crown in Parliament’ applies only to English law, not Scots law, which is why UK-wide laws contain the clause.

      All laws passed for Scotland are enacted on behalf of the people, not the Crown.

      Please STFU about things you really don’t understand.

    329. Geri says:

      ‘Do you want a English branch government in Scotland, to run Scotland?

      Especially if you have not yet been asked.’

      They were asked. They voted Yes. That’s what devolution was. Thier administration in Holyrood. Thats what they are – a devolved administration. Thier Scottish branch to work within the confines of thier rules.

      It was Alex that renamed it the Scottish government but its function remains the same.

    330. Republicofscotland says:

      “Wouldn’t that be because they’ve been silenced by IHRA?”

      Geri @5.49pm.

      Yip, sure is Geri, the SNP has enthusiastically jumped onto the Israeli band wagon. Angus Robertson is a very good friend of Shia Masot (Mossad) throw in the links below, and you’ll soon realise that the SNP has switched sides, a bit like RFC fans waving Star of David flags at Ibrox if you ask me.

      Israel has captured Scotland.

      https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20220524-the-scottish-government-is-silencing-palestinians/

      https://www.thejc.com/news/community/scottish-jews-seek-reassurance-from-sturgeon-over-ihra-6bcg6D49tNAJiQPNRBF8gI?reloadTime=1664836801350

    331. Scott says:

      @James Cheyne

      “Be it enacted by the Queen’s most Excellent Majesty, by and with the advice and consent of the Lords Spiritual and Temporal, and Commons, in this present Parliament assembled, and by the authority of the same, as follows”

      That doesn’t appear in legislation that applies only to Scotland, but appears in UK-wide legislation because that’s how English law is formed – on behalf of the monarch.

      Scots law is enacted on behalf of the people, not the crown.

    332. Dan says:

      Geri says: at 5:10 pm

      Sturgeon will have her chain yanked from WM regards trans.
      She has no authority to change the Equality Act.
      They’re letting her play awhile cause it suits them to annoy Scotland with the added bonus its killing the independence movement.

      That view seems to be aligned with what Gordon Dangerfield was saying in his last article.
      (Ctrl F search “Spoiler” for the relevant paragraph within the article)

      https://gordondangerfield.com/2022/08/12/why-single-sex-female-services-are-not-for-biological-males/

    333. Republicofscotland says:

      Apologies I can’t get past the paywall, but you get the gist of it.

      “Scottish Government report into harassment complaints against Alex Salmond to remain secret
      The former permanent secretary’s report that judged Alex Salmond had sexually harassed two Scottish Government officials during his time as first minister is unlikely to ever be made public following a ruling by the Scottish Information Commissioner.”

      https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.scotsman.com%2Fnews%2Fpolitics%2Fscottish-government-report-into-harassment-complaints-against-alex-salmond-to-remain-secret-3872293

    334. John Main says:

      Aw Naw!

      We’ve been stitched up by the Zionists!

      They have their testicles everywhere!

      [Moan, ye’re naw really expectin anybody to take this pish seriously]

    335. John Main says:

      “was a huge cheer when she said – unscripted – that she intends to be first minister for quite a while yet”

      That’s reported by the BBC, so there will be a few on here who will automatically denounce it as lies.

      What’s RT saying?

      Still, to be fair, the last leader I recall telling me he intended to serve as PM for “a full term” was Blair. He subsequently abdicated and Broon took over – it was his turn.

      The analogy breaks down with NS, there is no heir in waiting.

      So I am guessing we are stuck with her. Happy days.

    336. Republicofscotland says:

      Dan @6.45pm.

      Thanks Dan, so it’s all to protect Leslie Evans. John Smythe has done some excellent work uncovering SNP machinations under Sturgeon the betrayer.

    337. Merganser says:

      Republic @ 4.25

      ‘We the independence generation’ says Sturgeon.

      The SNP have been good at attracting young, angry, woke, radical, gender-fluid voters.

      The problem is: they grow into mature, more tolerant, hardened, conservative, (small c), gender certain voters with families.

      Instead of preaching to a volatile, fickle, trend-orientated group who are an easy capture (for a few years of their lives), the SNP should have concentrated on convincing this second group of people with properly thought-out and well-presented policies, that independence was the best choice.

      Choosing to build their platform on such shifting sands, and not on firm foundations, demonstrates that the SNP does not have sufficient insight into how to make progress. They are a lost cause. And they will lose us independence. But they will have their cosy jobs and large pensions. And the next batch of youngsters to entangle in thir web, and round we go again.

    338. Tinto Chiel says:

      @christine 12.51 and Geri 1.32: just catching up today but those psychological assessments are very persuasive.

      As an unsuspecting, mere male I got quite close to her when she visited our town just before the referendum. The Death Stare and emotional coldness I experienced close up that day perplexed me but I put it down to the tension caused by the many interviews she gave to TV and radio as she progressed regally through the place.

      Contrasted with the complete, emotional “performance” I witnessed at the SCC later that year, I should immediately have realised something was very, very wrong but hope springs eternal, does it not, in the minds of the trusting and committed? The adulation she received that day in retrospect was very worrying and is at the root of the inability of the cult to see through her, even today.

    339. North chiel says:

      “ republic of Scotland says at 0613 pm” “ Israel has captured Scotland “ , agreed Sir , however they captured Westminster “many decades ago “ The phrase “ pro Palestinian “ has been completed deleted from the Britnat media narrative . All that ever is “ propagated “ is the phrase “ anti semitic “ ( This was especially true as regards the propaganda campaign against Jeremy Corbyn “ and his hounding out of office ).

      New subject , if the “ Supreme” Court decision goes against Scottish democracy then Sturgeon should resign her government and call a “ Scottish” plebiscitary election on independence & certainly not have the future of our country decided on a “ Westminster orientated timescale “ & “ UK” orientated propaganda campaign.
      Do something “ unpredictable “ for once NS , take the iniative and confront the Tories & Westminster establishment NOW !! Wrong foot them NOW while they are in complete disarray !!

    340. Ruby says:

      Republicofscotland says:
      10 October, 2022 at 6:34 pm

      Apologies I can’t get past the paywall, but you get the gist of it.

      This might work:

      https://pressreader.com/article/283008288672299

      Not sure if you need to be logged in to Press reader or not.

      Give it a try!

    341. John Main says:

      @ Merganser says:10 October, 2022 at 7:01 pm

      “Instead of preaching to a volatile, fickle, trend-orientated group who are an easy capture (for a few years of their lives), the SNP should have concentrated on convincing this second group of people with properly thought-out and well-presented policies, that independence was the best choice”

      Indeed.

      It’s easy to persuade the young (who generally have nothing) to take a punt on something new. What have they to lose? And if it doesn’t work out, they still have their lives ahead of them to turn things around.

      Whereas the older and more mature, may have managed to make a go of things, regardless of how rancid the living environment is. If you have a house, pension savings and a tolerable job, putting it down on an all-or-nothing gamble is a much bigger step.

      Which is precisely why I call for the Indy movement to show us the money.

      Just why I get so many pelters for doing so remains a mystery.

    342. Rab Davis says:

      North chiel. 7.10pm

      Yes,,,I think collapsing the Scottish government and calling a Holyrood plebiscite election would be my preferred route to independence.

      It also brings Into play 16 and 17 year olds, who can vote in Scottish elections,,,and EU citizens based in Scotland.

      A much better chance of getting the over 50% of the vote in favour of Indy that she is looking for.

      It seems the simplest and most straightforward way out of this stinkin Union.

      Only problem is,,,, Sturgeon doesn’t do simple and straight forward.

    343. John Main says:

      @North chiel says:10 October, 2022 at 7:10 pm

      It is entirely possible that if I ever find myself shuffling through security at Prestwick, holding my trousers up cos my belt has been confiscated, and all due to the threat of pro-Israeli terrorism, that I will sympathise with your complaints.

      But for the time being, naw.

    344. John Main says:

      @ Rab Davis says:10 October, 2022 at 8:09 pm

      “and EU citizens based in Scotland.

      A much better chance of getting the over 50% of the vote in favour of Indy that she is looking for”

      Woo hoo, EU citizens to give us the Indy we couldn’t get for ourselves in 300 years.

      I have to guess at the logic underlying this, but the most likely option is a touching belief that EU citizens will vote Yes cos they expect Scotland to be back in the EU.

      Some of us Scots don’t want to be in the EU, Rab. It’s not that we don’t recognise the harm done to Scotland by WM, it’s that we recognise the harm done to Greece and Italy by Brussels. So we don’t want to leave one 300 YO rancid union and immediately jump into a new, rancid union.

      I wager Indy will lose more Yes votes from Scots if Indy tries this gerrymandering than Indy will gain from these EU people.

      Thought they all left anyways? Hostile environment, economic collapse, and all that.

    345. Rab Davis says:

      John Main

      Don’t fuckin annoy me , ya fuckin arse hole.

    346. Merganser says:

      Ruby @ 7.52.

      The truth will out one day. It would be better for Scotland if it came out now rather than later. The SNP are a busted flush, and should go out taking their lies and deceitful practices wrapped round their shoulders as their badge of shame for all to see.

      Imagine what would happen if all the effluent came out just as Scotland was about to vote on independence in a real referendum. What a wonderful thing for Englandshire to have up its sleeve ready to release at the right moment.

      The boil needs lancing now so we can move on without forever looking over our shoulders. What a legacy for Sturgeon to leave.

    347. Geri says:

      Regards the new topic..
      I may be wrong but when this was bandied about a few yrs ago it was said that there is a 30 day notice allowing for a new government to form & present themselves to the presiding officer. If this is true then the unionists would just form a coalition.

      It’s not something I checked out for myself tho.

    348. Rab Davis says:

      Geri 8.51pm

      Geri,,, don’t know about technicalities regards Unionists blocking a Holyrood plebiscite election.

      Needs looking in to.

    349. John Main says:

      @Rab Davis says:10 October, 2022 at 8:30 pm

      “Don’t fuckin annoy me”

      Soz you’re annoyed, Rab.

      Maybes you should work it out by dealing with the points in my post and disproving them. I’ll repeat my major argument to make it easier for you:

      Some of us Scots don’t want to be in the EU, Rab. It’s not that we don’t recognise the harm done to Scotland by WM, it’s that we recognise the harm done to Greece and Italy by Brussels. So we don’t want to leave one 300 YO rancid union and immediately jump into a new, rancid union.

      Ball’s in your court.

    350. Geri says:

      62% disagree with you. An iScot will hold an EU referendum, it part of the process for joining. Scots will have thier say then & no one can predict the outcome.

      Greece? Are you referring to thier bailout? If so, didn’t they *cook the books* to gain entry to the monetary Union? Two separate organisations.

    351. Andy Ellis says:

      @John Main 9.08 pm

      This has been discussed before. Whatever your personal ideological objections to the EU qua “grand projet” your views represent a minority. Pro-EU sentiment is actually increasing, not decreasing amongst Scots both pro and anti independence. There is no real equivalence between the two unions, which you must know very well: it’s a facile soundbite.

      There is very little chance that the electorate in an independent Scotland will vote to remain outside the EU, just as there is little chance they’ll want to be outside NATO, however hard opponents of both want to see us adopt some form of splendid isolation.

      The more desirable – even perhaps in due course inevitable – independence is seen to be, the MORE likely EU & NATO membership becomes, because the “soft No” voters who will be switching will be overwhelmingly in favour of both, as they are instinctively Atlanticist in outlook and there just isn’t really any other game in town.

      Ask our Swedish and Finnish friends….. 🙂

    352. Geri says:

      From Google. Before the banking crash…I’ve edited out the source number. Link below..

      ** in the years before the crisis Goldman Sachs, JPMorgan Chase, and numerous other banks had developed financial products which enabled the governments of Greece, Italy, and many other European countries to hide their borrowing. Dozens of similar agreements were concluded across Europe whereby banks supplied cash in advance in exchange for future payments by the governments involved; in turn, the liabilities of the involved countries were “kept off the books”.These conditions had enabled Greece as well as other European governments to spend beyond their means, while meeting the deficit targets set out in the Maastricht Treaty. **

      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greece#Debt_crisis_(2010%E2%80%932018)

    353. John Main says:

      Geri

      There’s quite a gulf between the warm, fuzzy feeling that some Scots want to be in the EU, and the hard-nosed reality that would be the Terms & Conditions on which iScotland would be allowed to join.

      EU member countries fall into two groups; the net givers and the net takers. If iScotland is going to be as wealthy and successful as we are promised, we will be in the net givers group. Them’s the rules.

      But I agree with you. We get Independence. We have our own currency, laws, parliament and politicians, making decisions on behalf of us Scots in Scotland.

      If the too poor, too wee contingent subsequently get a second referendum in the hopes of forcing us into the EU, that will certainly be a betrayal of 300 years of striving for Independence. But as long as the Scots are honestly told the pros and cons of giving up their Independence after such a short time, if they vote to do so, their democratic decision will stand.

    354. John Main says:

      Andy Ellis

      Thanks for your reply.

      I guess that it is very difficult for a rationalist to understand how pro-“anything” sentiment can increase when that “anything” is defined only in the fuzziest terms.

      Probably the pro-EU group are imagining no moby roaming charges, low Forex rates and easy grape picking gap years for their offspring.

      I am more concerned about rock-bottom pay rates for migrant labour decimating Scots employment, German companies buying up Scottish firms and Spanish fishing fleets hoovering up our sea life. All while harmonised laws and processes further hammer our culture, legal system and heritage.

      Not to mention the biggie: the wealth we were promised would be ours, transferred to Brussels cos we would be a net contributor. It’s a binary, Andy, we’re rich or we’re poor. Consequently, we subsidise, or we’re subsidised. And we are for ever being told we are rich.

      Still, as the nicest wee country in the world, I guess we should bend over and enjoy it.

      It’s not “splendid isolation”, Andy, it’s independence. Plenty of other, wee countries manage it fine.

    355. AberdeenPict says:

      Dorothy Devine says:
      10 October, 2022 at 6:06 pm
      Aberdeen Pict, thanks for the information. I was born and bred in Aberdeen but came to Glasgow when I was 17 to attend college and never returned except on wee visits, so I have no idea where this TECA is – please enlighten me.

      Dorothy, the TECA, also called the ‘P&J live’ is a direct replacement venue for the old ‘Aberdeen Exhibition and conference centre’ or ‘AECC’ for short which was located over in Bridge of Don, on the road out to Ellon. The ‘AECC’ was built in 1985, so not sure you if you moved away by then, sorry, I am not presuming your age. The ‘AECC’ held conferences, concerts etc. However, the sound at concerts was well known for being totally s**t, basically just a big shed.

      They decided to build the ‘TECA’ and the old ‘AECC’ was demolished around 3 years ago. The TECA is out at Bucksburn, where the old Rowett Institute used to be, do you remember that place? it was on the way out to the airport. Anyway, the TECA is a lot more modern, and the sound is a lot better than the old AECC. And that is where the SNP conference has been taking place.

      Yes, I remember you saying you were originally from Aberdeen in one of your posts, did you say you were brought up in the Kittybrewster area or somewhere near there?

    356. North chiel says:

      How can the EU ( an equal union of Independent nations) not be a preferable option for Scotland than the current “ supposed union “ within the “ United” Kingdom where Westminster ( effectively a Defacto English majority Parliament) , rules the roost and in fact decides that Scotland with a 62 percent remain vote MUST leave the EU ( stripping Scots of EU citizenship) just because “ England has decided” it MUST be so ?

    357. North chiel says:

      “ John @ 0814 pm “ shuffling through Prestwick airport” . John another 2 or 3 years of this Tory government & there will be very few customers “ shuffling” through Prestwick airport . It will be “ day trips “ to Saltcoats , Arbroath , Portobello & Ullapool for us under this regime . By the way I have visited all above during these past couple of years and had a most enjoyable visit to all !

    358. Geri says:

      John 10:08pm.

      It wouldn’t be the politicians. The voting public need to show a majority by holding a referendum. Thats one of the EU rules for entry. IScot may even vote against rejoining completely but prefer to remain outside but have access to the SM & CU. There’s options. One thing’s for sure tho – we can leave at any time.

      It looks like you’ve bought Farages Brexshit bull. Those things you list can be equally said of Scotland moving in over there. It’s reciprocated & we have a veto on laws we may not agree with.

      I’m no expert on fishing but didn’t they sell their quotas to Johnny foreigner, spent all the compo money from the EU, then like Bancini from One Flew Over The Cuckoos Nest (who lost all his fags to gambling) wondered how they could get thier fishing boats & quotas back from the thieving barstewards? LOL! That does sound rather special. Only they’re not.

      Anyway John – try punt us the Union. Is it looking smashing from where you are? Has the nasty party got your back?

    359. Rab Davis says:

      Geri

      I prefer the Alex Salmond EFTA route into Europe.

      Let the EU stablize for a few years. It’s going through a tough time.

    360. Dorothy Devine says:

      Aberdeen Pict , I was brought up in Granholm – no longer a mill but a housing estate and last time I was there a restaurant!

      I vaguely remember the place at bridge of Don but only because my visits to Aberdeen had to include a trip to the Inversnecky for ice cream – worked there during school holidays many, many moons ago. ( I am very old indeed!)

      I remember the Rowett had family out that way so knew the area.

      Kittybrewster was a favourite place when the farmers mart was taking place – I loved seeing the rosy cheekit chiels in their plus fours , bunnets and cromachs as I passed through on the way to and from school.

    361. Dorothy Devine says:

      may I recommend the article on Grousebeaters site concerning that which is unmentionable on this one.



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