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The King Of Opposite World

Posted on September 20, 2018 by

We think it’s fair to say that our bestest friend in all of the internet, Scottish Labour activist Duncan Hothersall, is absolutely hopping mad about the latest developments in our court case against the branch office’s former leader Kezia Dugdale.

But keen followers of Dunc might particularly enjoy this demonstration of his legendary grasp of fine factual detail.

So for old times’ sake, let’s have a Kezia Dugdale(-Related) Fact Check.

Hothersall tells us that Dugdale’s reign brought Scottish Labour “back from the brink”. Dugdale was elected North British Regional Manager in the middle of August 2015, a few months after that year’s general election at which Jim Murphy lost 40 of the party’s 41 seats to the SNP and quit in abject disgrace.


Hothersall’s claim that “nobody else would” do the job appears to be untrue – Dugdale beat Ken Macintosh in a leadership election so we must assume he was volunteering for it too, unless he just filled in a form wrongly or something. In fact, the reality is that Macintosh wanted the job so much he resisted what he called “bullying from the party machine” aimed at avoiding a contest and installing Dugdale by coronation.

The first opinion polls after she took charge put Scottish Labour on 23% and 22%, just below the 24% Labour had achieved in the election.

But Dugdale would in fact only reach as high as Murphy’s all-time low once in her entire two-year tenure, scoring 24% in a single poll in November 2015. From there it was a slow slide downhill all the way. The nadir was reached in March 2017, when a poll saw Scottish Labour recording just 14%.

Perhaps out of pity, Scottish pollsters conducted no more polls from then until the end of Dugdale’s reign on 29 August that year.

But two polls conducted that September, right AFTER her resignation – even though Scottish Labour effectively had no leader at all until Richard Leonard’s election in November – saw the accounting unit’s support leap by more than 50% overnight, to 22% and then 25%, where it has more or less stayed ever since.

Kezia Dugdale took over Scottish Labour at the lowest ebb in its history, and then proceeded to diligently lose around 40% of its remaining support. The moment she resigned, even though people had no idea who would replace her, almost all of that lost support came back – seemingly purely because Labour voters felt that whoever the leader might be, at least it wasn’t Kezia Dugdale. Remarkably, in just four months after her departure, Scottish Labour’s poll ratings (briefly) DOUBLED to 28%.

Describing that performance as Dugdale having brought Scottish Labour “back from the brink” (as opposed to TO it) will, we suspect, strike most rational observers as a stupendous reversal and perversion of the easily-observable historical truth on such a monumental scale as to be almost heroically audacious in its jawdropping falsity.

Or as Wings readers have come to know it, “Standard Dunc”.

For some reason, however, Hothersall has also taken it upon himself today to insist – in his normal strident and abusive manner – that this site has alleged the 2014 independence referendum was in some way fixed or crooked.

This may be startling news to anyone who read the article we wrote the day after the vote categorically and unambiguously saying the exact opposite of that:

Or the article we ran 10 days after the vote from one of our own official observers flatly rejecting any conspiracy theories about a fix:

Wings Over Scotland in fact had official observers at every count in the country on referendum night, and to the best of our knowledge not one of them ever reported any improprieties or alleged any wrongdoing. Nobody representing Wings has EVER claimed the referendum was fixed in any way, and it appears to us to be plainly defamatory to assert that we’re mad lying conspiracy theorists by claiming that we’ve said the diametric opposite of what we’ve actually said.

So we’re currently in discussion with our increasingly-busy lawyers with regard to the steadily more demented barrage of unarguable lies Duncan Hothersall is issuing about us on social media. There comes a time when you have to draw a line.

[EDIT 5.56pm: That was quick. Maybe Kezia could take some tips.]

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  1. 20 09 18 18:56

    The King Of Opposite World | speymouth

239 to “The King Of Opposite World”

  1. bobajock says:

    All 3 Labour supporters in Scotland – remember – its ‘Labour in Scotland … the English party’ who funded Kez on her witchhunt against the Rev ..

    Anyway, all 3 Labour people left in Scotland believe everything Duncan says … his mum, and that other woman who did that indy TV ad. Thats all 3.

    But we know she’s an actress.

  2. Welsh Sion says:

    “Dunc slammed”

    Stu does it again.

  3. call me dave says:

    Sounds like ‘slam dunk’ for you again 🙂

  4. dakk says:

    The effortless exposing of a compulsive liar,and absolute dope of the hardcore british nationalist variety.

    Dunky got a new poop chute.

  5. call me dave says:

    @Welsh Sion

    Jings! I’m 5 mins behind in Fife. 🙂

  6. CameronB Brodie says:

    He doesn’t help himself but then he lacks self-awareness. At least his public persona does. It must be hell wanting to be progressive yet not being able to let go of your reactionary nationalism.

  7. jimnarlene says:

    Dunc, it would seem, would back Genghis Khan if he’d led the northern branch of Labour.

  8. Daisy Walker says:

    OK, will go and check the piggy bank for the fundraiser;)

    Your lawyers are getting well practised aren’t they?

  9. Desimond says:

    Will Scottish Labour gladly fund Duncs defence?

  10. Andrew Scott says:

    Agreed. Can’t let him away with lying

  11. Ruglonian says:

    I was at the count as an official observer – this is well beyond silly talk now.

    If you feel you finally need to, then go get this sorted Stu.

  12. Corrado Mella says:

    I’d love to be Stu’s lawyer.

    Plenty of work, a recurring revenue stream.

    Like printing money.

  13. Welsh Sion says:

    Call me dave @ 5:13 pm.

    Ach … no problemo. You’re on Scottish Independence Time. (Soon).

  14. Merkin Scot says:

    Mr. Hothersall isn’t really the cleverest, is he?

  15. Tackety Beets says:

    If you proceed with a legal action that’ll be a “Slam Dunc”

    Many on here have said we, as in the Yes / SNP side, need to challenge these lying $hits more often.

    Hopefully you do go ahead & he backs down, it will surely help reduce the amount of LIES we hear almost daily.

    I’m sure I will not be the only one stepping forward with another contribution.

  16. ScottishPsyche says:

    Maybe SLab could do a BOGOF deal for Kez and Dunc.

  17. And Spouse says:

    What upsets me most is that politicians who were elected by we the people feel they can tell downright untruths and it’s printed and read. We the people who want a better world!
    They know it’s not true or they don’t care.! It’s shocking. Making sure untruths are challenged is a game that you are brilliant at Stu. Thankyou.

  18. Sarah says:

    Thank you, Rev, for the good laugh I’ve just enjoyed. And if there’s a crowdfunder, I’m ready.

  19. Davy says:

    Hothersal, the only man who’s speech is shaped like “curly fries”.

    He couldn’t produce a straight line if you gave him a ruler.

  20. Arbroath1320 says:

    So … we have wee Kez defending the indefensible or as we now know it to be “warming the dock up for wee Duncy baby!” 😀

    Come to think about it with the apparently ever so real possibility of a law suit against wee Dunc looming I’d have to say that I think oor Stu is homing in on a hat trick. 🙂 (to use footballing speak here) The only one missing to help confirm the hat trick is a certain dog food retailer methinks. 😀

  21. Vestas says:

    ….and once again nobody outside the tiny SLAB “community” (maybe 10,000 people) would know his name, except you keep giving the moron airtime Stu 🙁

    Please stop. Really.

  22. Arbroath1320 says:

    Corrado Mella says:
    20 September, 2018 at 5:28 pm
    I’d love to be Stu’s lawyer.

    Plenty of work, a recurring revenue stream.

    Like printing money.

    With all the numerous law suits over the years that oor Stu has won Corrado I’d be surprised to see his lawyers driving at all I’m pretty certain they must all be getting driven about in Bentleys by now! 😀

  23. Yerkitbreeks says:

    What a refreshing antidote to fake news you are.

  24. galamcennalath says:

    And Spouse says:

    What upsets me most is that politicians who were elected by we the people feel they can tell downright untruths and it’s printed and read.

    Me too.

    In the real world – which is most other countries where democracy operates properly – politicians who habitually lie will be turfed out by the electorate next time they stand.

    Politicians will try to bend the truth, it’s in many of their natures. A balanced media, practising journalism, and doing the job of holding power to account should destroy liars in short shrift.

    Then we have the UK and even worse, Scotland within the UK. There is a dodgy veneer of democracy, widespread partisan media, and downright protectionive propaganda.

    The old story – one guy says it’s raining, the other says it’s dry – the job of a journalist is to look and the window and find which one is lying! Not the way it works in Scotland!

    Liars lie, and get away with it. Gullible spoon fed voters are never even told they are being lied to.

  25. Capella says:

    Would a grovelling apology be sufficient compensation? You could pin it to your twitter timeline for all eternity.

    Those stats on party support are very encouraging. The SNP stays well in front in spite of the rabid media and political attacks. That’s probably why they are having to turn up the volume, e.g. the attack on Alex Salmond, to try to get those polls moving.

    I listened to the Media Show on R Scotland while driving. Ruth’s “Confessions” don’t seem to be gaining much traction. In fact, the consensus seems to be that she is a practised media insider with ambition to be a celebrity rather than a politician. Bake-offs would be her natural level IMO.

  26. Morgatron says:

    If you sue , Dim Dunc will just say , “Stu, he’s not suing me”! We all know He’s a Natural Born Fibber and wuth the Brucie bonus of being a bit of a fud.

  27. Macart says:

    Jinkies! 😮

    Mr Hothersall does seem to have a problem separating fact from fiction, or with observing reality in general.

  28. Greannach says:

    I’ve never been sure who this Duncan Hothersall is. Is he an MSP?

    He seems like the type of pedant who insists on saying “It is I who am at the door”, then is surprised when nobody answers.

  29. HandandShrimp says:

    Good points 🙂

    However, on matters of “factional punishments” I’m guessing Duncan is well placed to know how the land lies within the party and who is gunning for who.

  30. Artyhetty says:

    Yep, these British nationalists are doing a sterling job of distracting, and shifting the emphasis from actual political wranglings, like the impending, catastrophic, Britnat Brexit.

    Labour branch office ensconsed in Scotland, like the Tory and Lib Dem branch offices, are experts at pretending they have any clout at Westminster at all. They don’t they are outsourced, and outdated because they wield no power, are in bed with the Tories and take their orders from their London masters. It’s simple really.

    With 100% of the media spouting SNP bad, actively working against them, it’s a miracle they have a majority of politicians at Holyrood, and are the third largest party at Westminster.

    GE round the corner, anyone?

  31. Bryan Weir says:

    ‘Hothersall has also taken it upon himself today to insist – in his normal strident and abusive manner’

    Hrrrmm ….

  32. mike cassidy says:

    Who could ever forget the Duncmeister’s finest moment?

  33. SOG says:

    Well, is that Dunc’s attempt at an apology? Just for that, I’ll look for small change under the car seats to be ready for the next crowdfund.

  34. Eric Carbis says:

    Well done Stu, but no apology from the twit, he should have been man enough to say sorry. Keep up the great work

  35. Liam says:

    Oh fair do’s! He doesn’t say from the brink of what. Success? Victory? Electability?

  36. Wullie B says:

    Dunc will be fuming at JCs comments, is that him lining up for a deal with the SNP when the expected snap election gets called

  37. Liam says:

    Oh fair do’s. He doesn’t say what she bought them back from the brink of.

    Success? Victory? Electability?

  38. Proud Cybernat says:

    GE round the corner, anyone?

    Possibly. I think Mayhem is certainly placing all the pieces on the board in case she has no choice but to call another snap GE. It’s not definite but she is most definitely positioning herself in case she has no choice but to go to the country. And I think after Tusk’s announcement today that chance of a snap GE is, imo, probably now more likely than not.

  39. Maria F says:

    I must be thick as two planks of wood, but I still do not understand the outrage of Mr Hothersall or anybody else because labour has decided not to foot the next court bill of Ms Dugdale.

    I mean, why should Labour members have to pay for her indiscretions? if Ms Dugdale’s comments that led to the court case were her own personal ones, as the public at large believes, then I don’t see why the members of the party, particularly those down south, have to pay for that bill they want it or not. A very different matter is if she chooses to do a crowdfund as Mr Salmond or Mr Campbell did and then people voluntarily decides to donate or not. But expecting the party to pay what come may I think it is a bit much.

    Now, the only context where Mr Hothersall’s outrage has any place to be is if the idea of making those remarks was not really motivated by personally held convictions but rather originated from some room in the bowels of the Labour party itself as a political maneuver to deliver a double whammy against the independence movement: damaging the SNP by dragging it into their own fight and force the closure of Wings by defamation of its owner. If that was the case, then it was faux outrage from Dugdale attempting to use emotional blackmail to deceive the public. In such scenario it is my opinion the electorate should be informed of the kind of dodgy, dark and embarrassing maneuvers Labour is prepared to do to delegitimise the independence movement.

  40. John R says:

    Looks like Dunc keeps a close eye on this website.

  41. Dan Huil says:

    Clunk! There goes Dunc’s junk.

    # Hothersall! Huh! What is he good for?! Absolutely nothin’! # [Funk]

  42. ephemeraldeception says:

    This sites official view on the Referendum is well known but I disagree.
    Not on the count itself but on the Postal votes.

    The facts as I recall are that there was major doubt in some of the turnouts and in Argyll in particular this provoked a group who actually managed (despîte major roadblocks and red tape – why?) to get samples of postal votes compared to the overall count.

    Ratio of No to Yes was far higher in the samples checked.
    Statistical analysis was also done based on the register and accounted for change of voting population eg. immigrants to Argyll v leavers etc and it was stated to be very difficult to have achieved such a turnout (can’t remember the details).

    Anecdotally we know, and it is generally accepted, that Postal Votes are wide open to Fraud. Did any of the official observers get to compare to Postal votes verses Votes cast on the Day? I don’t believe so? Why not? Why are postal votes, given the ease of Fraud and banned in other EU counties, not explicitly counted and read out.

    Its a joke. And the joke is on us.

  43. Weechid says:

    ephemeraldeception – As was explained to me the Better Together lot went out and encouraged their voters to apply for, complete and return their postal votes. The Yes side didn’t. I’ll never be 100% certain that there was absolutely no deception but I do think we lost because not enough people voted Yes.

  44. Footsoldier says:

    “Jeremy Corbyn has said he is not ruling out allowing a second Scottish independence referendum” should he become Prime Minister.

    Perfect, having been at a meeting earlier this week where Mike Russell was exploring how a Section 30 might be obtained, this could fit the bill.

    If a GE is called and Corbyn gets in but needs the SNP to do so, that’s our negotiating stance. Mind you, we then have to win it.

  45. ephemeraldeception says:


    Hi, dont get get me wrong, I accept the result and don’t thing any Fraud was enough to change a Yes to a No.

    My point is I am convinced there was large scale fraud. Xa

  46. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    I suspect that the slight rise in NorthBritLab’s popularity since Kez ducked out was a combination of some naive young people being attracted to JayCee the Messiah’s coming, plus their craven “mee too” coat-tailing of the Ruthie Party’s diversionary “no to a second referendum” campaign in the last UKGE.

    Both of which will likely not persist under the spotlight glare of time. (Maybe that’s why Ruthie is taking a mum’s way out. Despite all the wishful-thinking promotion from the BBC, she’s not going anywhere politically. All those U-turn skeletons lurking in the cupboard just waiting to tumble out in a Tory leadership knife-fight.)

    Still, I suppose the more publicity The People’s Vote gets, the more obvious the truth about Brexit becomes to everyone, and the less easy it is to cavalierly dismiss our distinct protected choice with IR2. Nice to see someone with apparently easy access to the UK media do some useful spadework for us for a change.

  47. ephemeraldeception says:


    Hi, don’t get get me wrong, I accept the result and don’t think any Fraud was enough to change a Yes to a No overall.

    My point is I am convinced there was pretty large scale fraud. Can any official observer answer my open questions please? They are not difficult questions.

    The mechanisms and counting and post verification of postal votes are quite simply far too obscure. Since they are the most open to fraud they merit the highest scrutiny. Currently, its the opposite.

  48. galamcennalath says:

    May has been left humiliated, angry and visibly shaking. Why? Because the EU told her for the umpteenth time that her magic unicorns won’t fly.

    OK, my judgement is partisan but I see the EU as being open and consistent. The issue as far as I can see is Tories’ just can’t deal with someone they can’t control.

  49. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Footsoldier @ 20:03,

    Could be, but two immediate objections occur:

    + Corbyn would have to win first, and in England that’s by no means a certainty. Not least when the Tory media attack dogs turn on the “SNP tail wagging the dog” mantra like they did to poor Ed Miliband. Look how long it took for him to cave over that. Given Corbyn’s pathetic weathervaning over Brexit, is he any more resolute?

    + How much can anyone trust Labour anyway? In government back in the 1970’s, they diddled both David Steel’s Libs and the SNP in turn, and the leopard hasn’t changed its spots since. They believe in their divine right to rule. Look what they did with the Vow and then how they thoroughly reneged on it in the Smith Commission, the worst of the BritNat parties by a very long way.

    In any case, given the notorious instability of the UK electoral system, depending as it mostly does on a few constituencies in leafy middle England, we could just as easily be back in the same mess as now, DUP and all.

  50. Robert Peffers says:

    Here is a wee though for Wingers on this day when the unionists and the Greens were crowing over how they had defeated the SNP/SG over what they called the stressful testing of primary one pupils but which is factually not in any way a test but is a standard assessment of pupils and to date I have seen absolutely no evidence proffered that any child was actually upset by the assessments.

    On this same day we had a Holyrood debate on “The Reduction in violence in Scotland. A truly striking reduction that has seen Scotland, under an SNP government, progress from being seen World Wide as one of the most violent countries in the World to having countries with violence problems coming to Scotland to see how it was achieved.

    Now look at the video of FM’s Questions with a full house of opposition parties lined up to put Scotland down to the few in the debate in the video I quote below:-

    It certainly highlights the aims and values of the unionists, and Greens ay Holyrood and to sure as hell is not to big up Scotland. Mind you there were unionists there doing their best to put Scotland down.

  51. fionan says:

    Footsoldier says:
    20 September, 2018 at 8:03 pm
    “Jeremy Corbyn has said he is not ruling out allowing a second Scottish independence referendum” should he become Prime Minister.

    Daring to raise my head above the parapet to comment here again – my feeling is, why ever should we believe JC when he says this? He ‘isnt ruling out’ is a very different thing to ‘agrees to’. And dont the three tory parties have previous form on implying that they agree to something the Scots want, then back tracking once they have the power to agree or not? In fact, dont they have form on telling downright lies… eh sorry… vows?

    They would say anything to manipulate the Scots to vote the way they want. As far as I have ever seen anyway.

  52. schrodingers cat says:

    Footsoldier says:

    having been at a meeting earlier this week where Mike Russell was exploring how a Section 30 might be obtained,


    apart from a favourable change in electoral arithmatic for the snp in the up and coming ge, did he mention a legal challenge if WM says no to a S30?

    i’m genuinely interested in legal issues surrounding a s30 request from hr

  53. call me dave says:

    I see Corbyn shoogling shiny beads for SNP if maybe sometime. 🙂

    He said a Labour government would invest money in Scotland through a £20bn transformation fund and a £3bn increase in revenue spending.

    He predicted: “Things will be very different in Scotland with an ally in Westminster like a Labour government.”
    Aye right!

    Promotion from field slave to house slave…No deal!

  54. Sinky says:

    Disturbing news from The National regarding Yoon newsagents.
    “Some retailers are cancelling Sunday National orders – despite selling out.”

    This is what we are up against and we do need Wings readers to start ordering the National and Sunday National on a regular basis and complain when it is not on display.

  55. call me dave says:

    Stalemate at the footie so…

    A couple of Guardian articles today from darn Sarf.

    Labour ‘could win 1.5m more votes’ by backing Brexit referendum
    according to a yougov survey.

    May humiliated by Salzburg ambush as she fights to save Chequers plan

  56. ahundredthidiot says:


    I usually find the National on the bottom tray, tucked behind some rag, or, if i go to Asda it is usually in the bottom wall tray, beneath the horizontal trays. Recently, I havent been able to find a single copy (just last few weeks) so, conspiracy perhaps. Or maybe I am just too late in my search.

    My elderly relative was starting to come around as I slipped a copy in with his DR or Evening Times. ‘good paper that’ he would say.

    Perhaps this is mild paranoia, maybe it is ‘close ranks Britain’ re Brexit and Indyref2 – or maybe it is not a conspiracy…..but if it is…..then they must be shitting themselves!

  57. John Moss says:

    Duncan Hothersall = fanny pad.

    Fanny pad, fanny pad oooh what a fanny pad,
    Fanny pad.
    Pop a baloom baum
    Fanny pad, fanny pad, oooh what a fanny pad etc….

    See lollipop lyrics 🙂

  58. Jason Smoothpiece says:


    Cancelling the National would save the retailers the work involved in hiding the National under the newspapers which dont sell.

    My simple policy on my Saturday and Sunday morning visits to the shops, for rolls etc,is no National no other purchase made.

    They would soon order Nationals in if we all did that.

  59. Muscleguy says:

    I wonder how Dunc’s dog food business is going? We don’t have a hound but I seem to spend a fair amount of time looking after one nevertheless so I have an insight or two into the scene and I don’t see how he cannot be doing okay. I reckon even I could have a decent stab at it would I be wont to try.

    There is a lot of flim-flam in the food but some good stuff as well but there are lots of owners willing to be taken in by the flim-flam anyway so they can feel good about what they are feeding their pooches.

    Within limits most dogs will eat a lot of different stuff quite happily. Depending on context.

    Case in point, we have taken said hound to a local watering hole which admits canines and the bar staff apart from providing water bowls will dole out dog biscuits as well. This hound would get up to take the biscuits from them. We got given at one point a small bag of a few to take away. But at home he turned his nose up at them, being well aware of the other treats we had. Context.

  60. ahundredthidiot says:

    Call Me Dave

    Many years ago, 1945 to 1947, people wondered how the hell the Government could get the Docs to come around to the idea of an NHS. ‘Filled their mouths with gold’ was the phrase. I think that UKplc is now resorting to an idea whereby they need to splash some serious cash on Scotland to divide us politically – again.

    Knowing our history and our people, I would surmise that might just work – sadly.

    or maybe we’ve had enough and find the confidence to take that leap in the dark without looking

  61. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    call me dave @ 21:17:

    Labour ‘could win 1.5m more votes’ by backing Brexit referendum according to a yougov survey.

    Interesting. But do they have the courage for even that?

    And even less for a straight manifesto commitment to CU+SM? (Even if they knew that as a handy sideline this would park IR2 for at least another few years.)

    The People’s Vote proposal is fine as a means of highlighting the total madness of Brexshit to the still-confused and revealing a consequent tectonic opinion shift, but a rerun EuRef in which Scotland’s position wasn’t protected would be a Unionist trap.

    A built-in committment to independence in the event of a difference between Scotland and England would be a different matter. But that’s unlikely to be on offer by Corbyn or anyone else, whatever the parliamentary arithmetic in WM.

    And besides, if both Scotland and England voted remain the next time round, what then?

    Too many eggs placed in someone else’s basket, I fear, to be a reliable way forward.

    Meantime, May is further humiliated by the EU27. They seem increasingly resigned to getting rid of the UK as efficiently as possible, and they hold all the cards. Reality bites slow, but ever harder and ever more painfully.

  62. robertknight says:

    Duncan Horsefeathers & Co. (North Britain) Ltd.

    Purveyors of Quality Bovine Manure since 1998

  63. Jock McDonnell says:

    We won’t be asking Corbyn’s permission, maybe his agreement, but permission – no. Scots are sovereign. Westminster sovereignty is only an assertion. Real power cannot be given, it must be taken & take it we will.

  64. F says:

    @schrodingers cat 8.50

    No, a legal challenge on a refusal of Section 30 was not discussed.

  65. Meg merrilees says:

    News at Ten tonight :

    David Davis is saying that more than 40 Tories are writing letters of ‘No Confidence’ agin Treeza May.
    Getting pretty close to 48 letters. A rough ride is expected at Conference but possibly wouldn’t be announced till Parliament is sitting again in November.

    That GE is coming closer by the day, folks.

    There was even a couple of EU politicians on the Radio this morning saying that we should have a second EU referendum.


    Seems it’s too hot in the kitchen for (t)Ruthless she has announced that she is coming off Facebook and Twitter because of the abuse she gets. Can’t imagine it’s very pleasant but if she didn’t support the r*pe clause and cuts to disabled people then perhaps people would be more tolerant.

  66. twathater says:

    What really really infuriates me is this CONDESCENSION from all these brit nat TWATS like corbyn , who the f**k do these delusional self serving corrupt imbeciles think they are .

    I would maybe give PERMISSION for Nicola Sturgeon to hold another indy referendum it would depend on the circumstances but I would also point out the wrongness of that course of action , and point out the deficit of 13 billion

    First and foremost ARSEHOLE we Scots don’t need the permission of any brit nat establishment twat to hold a indy ref ,Scottish people are sovereign and if we indicate to our representatives which we have done , that we want ANOTHER and ANOTHER indy ref we WILL have one ( hopefully only one will be needed )

    Secondly o deluded one ASK YOURSELF , if Scotland has a 13billion deficit , just who the f**ck had been governing Scotland for approx 80 years ( I will help you here , UNIONIST BLACK HEARTED SCUM ) whose idiot returned 1 billion to wastemonster because he was toooo stupid to think of anything to spend it on in Scotland ( answer Labour )

    I apologise to sensitive people for my language here but this CONDESCENSION , COLONIALIST ,SLAVE OWNING , EXCEPTIONALISM really rips ma knitting

    Jeremy FUCK RIGHT OFF and take your cringeing , lying Scotland haters with you

  67. Robert Peffers says:


    EU rejects UK’s Brexit plan after summit – 2 hours ago:-

    Hate to say it Theresa – but we told you so.

  68. Petra says:

    One ‘defamer’ backing another ‘defamer’, FGS. You couldn’t make it up. Then again birds of a feather and all that. The defamers, commonly known as slanderous liars, are getting the message now. Back off and shut up or be prepared to pay through the nose. The days of opening your mouth and letting your belly rumble, in public, are over.


    Robert Peston was saying on ITV tonight that Theresa May was absolutely humiliated in Salzburg (yes we saw it) and if a No Deal is looming Parliament could back another EU referendum. The EU 27 were p*ssed off with her due to her aggressive comments in German newspaper Die Velt and at last nights dinner (oh to be a fly on the wall – better still a hungry guest). More than anything that she tried to go over Barnier, Juncker and Tusk’s heads.

    How much longer are we going to have to put up with this? The lunatics running the asylum. Six weeks? Madwoman May went to Salzburg knowing full well that her proposals would be rejected, they have been but she still insists that the Chequers deal can work. God give me strength.

    And if a General Election is held and Corbyn wins what’s he going to do? Has anyone heard, as an example, what his stance is in relation to the Irish border issue?

  69. Tackety Beets says:

    Maria F @ 6.54 Pm

    I totally agree that its nowt to do with the Labour party , but they probably thought Rev might back off , hell knows how they think.

    What I did see a few days ago or over the weekend.

    Someone had tweeted the information about the KD case to JOHN McDonell (former Shadow Chancer) The tweet was asking if this was permitted & why should she be funded etc
    The tweet at that time did not have a reply & my money is on McDonell knew nowt about it, & has since looked into it & put the blockers on the funding.

    I should be clear this is only my little hunch on the matter.

  70. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Petra @ 22:26,

    Aye, it was amusing how rapidly Duncy retracted. The message already seems to be getting through to Labourite zoomers: don’t chance your way over quicksand!

    As for his imperial master Corby, SM+CU would solve the NI problem at a stroke. But has he the balls (or interest) to go to the country on that proposition…?

  71. Guybrush Threepwood says:

    I’m not on social media so I have no idea who this guy is – however:

    I was a No voter who did briefly flirt with the idea of independence. I voted NO because we were promised the most powerful devolved parliament in the world, Holyrood was to be ‘enshrined’ into law, thus making it impossible for Westminster to change the devolution settlement – and we were promised EU membership would continue.

    If Better Together were genuinely wanting to build a better UK, they should have realised that the status quo could never return in a nation where almost 50% of the population want to end the Union. The Union they claim to love would forever be in peril unless there were massive changes to the constitutional settlement.

    Giving Holyrood control over everything besides foreign policy and defense.

    Extensive new powers to Cardiff and Belfast.

    Perhaps an English Parliament or devolution to the English regions.

    A new Act of Union with input from all major parties.

    Smaller nations having a veto to prevent England’s massive population from dominating the smaller nations.

    These are some of the options they should have looked at if they genuinely cared about this ‘precious union’. Instead they went on as if nothing happened. For me it’s too late, if any of these options are promised in the future then I’ll simply say “…but you promised that last time round and it was a lie, so why should I believe you now?”

  72. schrodingers cat says:


    wouldnt a brexit ge shoot the fox of those calling for a peoples vote?

    surely those calling for a peoples vote would be told to put their idea of brexit in a manifesto and take it to the people in the GE.

    the only question is what option corbyn will choose

  73. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    ephemeraldeception at 7.34

    The postal vote take-up at the Referendum in Argyll and Bute was 96.7%. This is in fact impossible. (There is no doubt about this figure). There was over 95% in four other Scottish constituencies.
    The EC in 2009 declared that the UK postal voting system was a recipe for large scale fraud which was very difficult to identify.

    Here is what an English judge determined

    Postal voting is ‘wide open to fraud’ and should be scrapped in its current form, a top judge warned last night.
    Judge Richard Mawrey, who sits in judgment on election fraud cases, said ballot-rigging was now a ‘probability’ in some parts of Britain due to the extension of postal voting.
    Mr Mawrey, a deputy high court judge, said the introduction of ‘on demand’ postal voting had failed to boost turnout. But he warned it had made Britain’s electoral system vulnerable to fraud on ‘an industrial scale’.

    Read more:

  74. Wullie B says:

    Its not only Labour party funds that would have been used, but many of us unwittingly have helped fund the Cooperative and Labour party over the years especially if you live in an area where the Co-op has a stranglehold an nearest non co-op is 120 miles away, so why should I be paying to help Kez fight her undefendable position

  75. Katie says:

    So according to the MSM scottish politicians were ‘in the pink’ when they united for the cause of breast cancer awareness. Good job politicians- Good cause! But… what astounds me is why cant they unite together for a slightly larger cause… its called ‘THEIR F***ING COUNTRY’

    I despair!!!

  76. Rock says:

    “in our court case against the branch office’s former leader Kezia Dugdale.”

    I sincerely hope that I am proven wrong:

    Rock (19th May 2017 – “Becoming the squirrel”):

    “I would love Dugdale to be humiliated in a court.

    But the Scottish justice system is rotten to the core and the vast majority of lawyers, especially judges, are the lowest of the low.

    Carmichael libeled Nicola Sturgeon before the last Westminster election and got away with it.”

  77. Rock says:

    From the archives:

    20th November 2014 “Not quite getting it”:

    “Kezia Dugdale is widely (for reasons which we must confess still escape our ongoing enquiries) regarded as the brightest of Scottish Labour’s young minds.”


    “The brightest lawyers are the ones who are best at lying.

    The same applies to Scottish Labour politicians.”

  78. Cactus says:

    Oh what a day, late September, back in ’18…

    LBC earlier and QT on 5 live radio wireless ra now.

    Entertainment galore!

  79. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    schrodingers cat @ 22:46,


    Besides the uncertainty of what each of the two main English parties would choose to make their pitch (besides funking the choice yet again), there is the further uncertainty of which way the dominant English electorate would go as a consequence.

    Given where we are, it’s hard to see exactly what a UKGE would resolve, really. And whatever it might be, it would be fairly unlikely to work out just right for us, however well the SNP vote recovered with a good feisty campaign, as well it might.

    My only conclusion is to free ourselves from this never-ending confusion. There may be inescapable uncertainty all round, but rather than wait for that to be resolved in any realistic timescale, is it not the case that our uncertainty offer is a considerably more attractive and constrained one than the other bottomless pit?! =grin=

  80. Rock says:

    From the archives:

    Rock (18th July 2017 – “The proof of the pudden”):

    “In my humble opinion, the SNP MSP literally in bed with Dugdale should be sacked from the SNP immediately.”

  81. Cactus says:

    The difference between pro-Scotland people and BritNatPeople is that the latter crave a monetary greed…

    The former tend to cover their costs then donate to charity.

    See previous.

  82. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Rock @ 23:08, 23:14,

    When are you finally going to realise that no-one here gives a flying fig for your self-regarding “archives”…?

  83. Arbroath1320 says:

    Just my tuppenceworth here regarding the infamous Section 30 order.

    From what I have read recently it appears, to me at least (well there’s a surprise 😀 ), that we actually have a possible strategy now to gain independence.

    1) demand a S30 order
    2) Feartie, or her successor refuses S30 order
    3) Holyrood holds an informative referendum, remember the E.U. referendum was only an INFORMATIVE referendum.

    I read recently that a High Court judge has ruled, I think it was one of the court rulings involving Gina Millar, that an consultative referendum is in fact a legally binding referendum i.e. what a referendum under a S30 order would take place. This means that we can now add:

    4) declare independence on informative result confirming a majority for YES!

  84. Petra says:

    @ RJS at 10:35pm ……. “Corbyn could opt for the SM and CU.”

    And that would entail free movement of people, RJS. I don’t see him, Corbyn, going down that route, so back to the Irish Border issue. What exactly would he do?

    In fact I actually wonder if the Labour Party are ready and willing to take hold of the Brexit poisoned chalice at all. The Tory fiasco has highlighted their sheer ignorance of Brexit “complexities”. Could the Labour ignoramuses do any better with the leader off, Corbyn the, “I can make bold promises when I’m not in power” windbag?


    @ Dave at 10:23pm …. “Postal votes.”

    To my mind the NIrish system could resolve some of our prior “issues” Dave and make a massive difference to the (our) end result. I’ve outlined their policy, in full, on here before and will do so again if anyone is interested …. tomorrow, lol.

  85. Wullie B says:

    Here is one from my archives Rock, its undated but Fuck off and give it a break, who the hell cares who the Dug is shacked up with and what party they represent, no one gives a shit apart from You who are almost as bad as the MSM with the SNPBAAAAAAD and Nicolas a Yoon rant that we get all the time from you,
    Piss off to Bella Caledonia, you will find likeminded arseholes there that you will really get on with

  86. Daisy Walker says:

    re Brexit and Corbyn making nice noises re ‘allowing’ Indy Ref2…

    If the whole reason for Brexit is to prevent the EU Tax Evasion Laws being implemented on the tax havens, the Terrible Mays job was to kick the can a bit further down the road, in order to make an Indy Ref 2 more difficult. Oops, she’s not done well.

    No Deal is the target, the desired outcome.

    The British Labour Party (whether Corby knows it or not, and I doubt that they care) is the left cheek of the same BritNat Establishment arse, and it has been for a very long time.

    Their job now will be to offer up ‘The Peoples Vote’ which has New Labour’s paw prints all over it. It is not an offer to cancel Brexit, its a fake choice that just muddies the waters further by ‘offering’ people a say, on the final outcome. However.

    There is no plan for EEA, EFTA, Norway or Canada+++, and there never has been.

    The noises to the SNP about ‘allowing’ another Indy Ref, more bollocks.

    All that fits re Brexit, logically for the establishment, is getting out before the new eu tax laws hit the tax havens. The 29th March 2019 cannot come quick enough for them.

    Bet they were spitting feathers when First Minister Sturgeon recommended extending the time for Article 50 today, such reasoned arguments as well, although unlikely to be agreed by the EU.

    How very well played 😉

    I’m going to keep my tinfoil hat on and keep looking at Brexit through the lens of ‘its all about the tax havens’, because nothing else about what they’ve been doing makes the slightest sense economically or from a power perspective.

    Best wishes to all.

  87. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Guybrush Threepwood @ 22:43,

    Exactly. In the immediate aftermath, leader articles in the quality press were effusively extolling the hopeful prospect that “the UK will never be the same again”.

    Fine words. Fine hopes. All for nought.

    The Unionists signally failed to meet the challenge, which was entirely within their power and control. Their greed for exclusive power was too much.

    Some of us realised that likelihood during the campaign, some (like you, it seems) have come to that realisation in the light of experience, which is fair enough. I just wish that more “no” voters had the same insight:

    The Union has been betrayed by the Unionists themselves.

  88. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Petra @ 23:31:

    Re Corbyn, I do tend to agree. Choices, choices. Life’s a right nest of vipers sometimes, no?

    Maybe if the people of NI started wearing colourful exotic costumes and took up basket weaving, he might see the right thing to do…? =laugh=

  89. Cubby says:

    Robert J Sutherland @11.56 pm

    The union was betrayed by the so called unionists a very long time ago because it was never intended to be a Union in the first place. The intention was always IMO to treat Scotland like a colony from 1706. The vow and all the broken promises have only served to highlight to more people that the union is not a Union in reality. So calling them unionists gives credence to their lies that Scotland is in a precious union that we want to break up. British Nationalists/English supremacists is more like it.

    Westminster is full of lies deceit and misrepresentation. People just come to that conclusion at different speeds.

    The “quality press” not a term I would use for Britnat propaganda pamphlets.

  90. Josef Ó Luain says:

    @ Rock

    You’re taking-the-piss with that Nazi-boy, homophobic shite, of course. Right?

  91. Cactus says:

    Are we all picking up on the ever-mutating headlines on radio blah blah… all we hear is.

    Previously it was, “Theresa May TOLD the EU that, blah x3”.

    Now it’s, “Theresa May IGNORES the EU, blah x3”.

    Keep an aye and ear out for same from ur televisual screens.

    NEW GAME… Fill in the next PM future blankety blank…

    – Theresa may (BLANK’s) the EU –

  92. Cactus says:

    A) Welcomes
    B) Accepts
    C) Ends

    Ye’ve just WON yerself a WOS pen and WBB. 🙂

    Go Supermatch PLAY.

  93. Hamish100 says:

    rock allowed to stay up later these days but still mixes with the slime.

    Go back to your britnat masters.

  94. Cubby says:

    Twathater 10.20pm

    Couldn’t agree more. Saw the same interview. If any evidence is needed just watch Corbyn give a masterclass in a colonial mindset.

    Independence supporters who go on about getting permission (S30) are implicitly accepting Scotland is a colony and have still not yet fully shaken off the cringe.

    We do not need their permission for an independence ref.

  95. Liz g says:

    Josef O’Luain @ 12.31
    No Josef,he is gaslighting to see if anyone will give him an opening to produce more bile!!
    I’ve had the impression that Rock has Narcissistic Personality Disorder for quite sometime now.
    Can’t help it and is convinced we are all dazzled by his insights,totally convinced he is right and thinks we don’t agree cause we’re all jealous that we’re no that smart!
    Humour if ye must but it doesn’t get any better than what you’ve just read.

  96. Stoker says:

    @dhothersall You tweeted “My mistake.”

    Not good enough, you owe him an apology. Mind you, it takes someone with a spine to apologise when they’re wrong. I hope he kicks your scummy arse all the way through the legal system. You and every other lying honking BritNat churnalist.

    Oh, and btw, you also tweeted “they’re both lying arseholes.” Think you’ll now find what a lying arsehole you just made of yourself for all the public to see. Discredited oxygen abuser!

  97. Cactus says:


    D) Wishes
    E) Offers
    F) Says

    An alternative Titanic, eh Dunc DiCaprio Dawson?

    Yer no at the bow of this readership pal.

    Jist as well ye yielded ssson.

  98. yesindyref2 says:

    Salzburg – quick analysis (opinion).
    May talked directly to the EU-27 leaders, going behind the back of Barnier. Well fine, the European Council (heads of state) works that way, as does the Council (Council of the European Union, the department Ministers one). The EU-27 can’t really complain too much about that or they risk undermining the way they try to work with concensus.

    But what she did wrong is to slag off Barnier apparently, and that is something the EU-27 who appointed him can’t let slip, or they risk undermining him. So she made a huge, massive, enormous mistake, and probably an effectively terminal one when it comes to hoping for a 6 month extension to the negotiations, to take Brexit date from 29th March 2019 to September 2019.

    So the way I look at it is that Scotland MUST go for an emergency Indy Ref 2 before March 29th 2019. And perhaps the EU-27 will actually be obliged to give a 6 month extension, so that the UK or rUK can exit in accord with Article 50 in terms of the “member state constitution”. Which is also why the S30 would probably be rushed through in an emergency fashion to facilitiate that. The Bill could even be presented by the Opposition and supported by Tory remainers. That wold be a turnup for the books.

    On the other hand, May may be no confidence voted, and a General Election ensue, and that would give that 6 month extension.

  99. Molly says:

    Just kind of talking out loud but what if Theresa May asks the EU for a six month extension UNTIL she saves the Union( a perfect excuse),Im not sure the opposition would put up any objections and then where would we be ?

    On the other hand there’s the new EU tax rules coming in so tick tock

  100. yesindyref2 says:

    I think that would only work if Sturgeon had pushed for the S30 and May had said she would do it. Otherwise as far as the EU is concerned it’s an internal matter for a soon not to be member state. I doubt there’s much sympathy left for May at the moment, whereas before she was probably OK – the EU-27 are well aware of her revolting party.

  101. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Cubby @ 00:23,

    You may well be correct in your understanding of the historical nature of the Union, but nevertheless, the winners in 2014 still had the opportunity to do a complete makeover and turn it into something entirely different from the past, something transformative with a fairer shareout of power (and responsibility) commensurate with the fairly narrow result. They could have done that, had they the foresight to try, and as a result we arguably wouldn’t be at all where we are now.

    Instead they funked it miserably out of their own base greed and a heady (if ultimately false) sense of victory. “Decisive”, as if that absolved them of any responsibility to change anything.

    Par for the course, you may respond, and you may be right, not least in retrospect. Some of us saw it coming in advance. But don’t overlook the many ordinary people who did in good faith believe the assurances from the Union side, including those well-meaning platitudes offered in the aftermath of the result. All such promises and fine sentiments are now seen to be utterly hollow by many of those folk too.

    It isn’t us, the “rebels”, who are the wreckers endangering the Union and threatening to bring it down. It is its own proponents, by their abject failure to pay out on any of the cheques they uttered.

    That is worth continually re-emphasising to those who did previously believe. We were working for them too, even if they didn’t understand it at the time. And they are our potential converts now.

  102. yesindyref2 says:

    An interesting quote from a current NO voter btl in The National, which I agree with:

    I think we can all agree that we all want to see a better Scotland. We all want to improve our society, improve the environment, educate our children better, have better health, stronger communities etc etc… we can all agree on that… however we all disagree on how to do this. Some favour full Independence, some favour FFA, some federalism, some the status quo, some reverting to pre-Holyrood days… and thats all fine, but as long as we are all working together to meet those goals its fine.

    It’s a common base to work from.

  103. Macart says:


    RE: Salzburg

    Diplomacy Dads. Accept no substitutes. 🙂

    It’s one of a great many things that’s been lacking in UKgov negotiations over the past two years. For some, a deliberate act and choice. For others? A lack of. And for yet more, a misplaced sense of self awareness.

    Not only has UKgov lacked any kind of EU exit plan since … forever, over the EU question. The government also lacked people with the willingness or diplomatic talent at the highest levels to manage the situation in the post referendum situation.

    Most folk with any intelligence or sense, either resigned or walked away in frustration as soon as they possibly could. Most saw what was coming politically a long way off and what it would do to politics and its institutions in the UK and probably thought, sod this for a gemmme o’ sodjies.

    Hell, even some o’ yer arch Brexiteers are distancing themselves from the shitstorm claiming it was all May’s and her Chequers plan’s fault that it’s awwwl gawn so terribly wrong if only she had…etc.

    No. Brexit was always going to fail at a ‘negotiating’ table. Mainly because the UK had nothing to bargain with that would persuade the EU to effectively break itself apart. Some knew that, some didn’t and others simply didn’t care regardless.

    Unity of purpose is essential in any joint diplomatic or negotiating scenario. The EU has it and the unfortunately named ‘United’ Kingdom doesn’t. Mainly because the UK is anything but united.

    Helluva handicap to take into that world and a helluva payoff for a Tory pissing contest.

    Their choice.

  104. yesindyref2 says:

    The UK has always been a bull in a china shop with the EU, confrontation followed by meedk submission, rather than compromise and consensus. Cameron wasn’t great, but way better than May. I think the EU has sympathised with May as I say, because of her split party, but that only goes so far. They might also sympathise with the people of the UK but again they have no choice but to deal with the minister and ultimately the PM. Such an absence of statespeople in the UK Government, surely the worst ever in its history.

    I’d like to see comparative figures for the EU-28 incuding the UK, to see what use each state has made of all the grants available. It’s my feeling the UK isn’t very good at it. Strangely I went to a small conference (Aviemore or Inverness I forget) beginning of the century about that very thing – getting EU funding. It was a complicated thing, and there were effectively freelance advisers to help. But that of course was something the Government itself should have provided, and with such things being basically reserved, that’s the UK Gov not the Scottish Gov. The EU did try, I got proactively approached and got a £500 grant for some reserach which was quite useful.

    There’s a lot of people very wary about the EU, and apaprently one-third of YES voters voted Leave. I think Scotland would approach it way differently to the UK and could do very well out of the EU anyway, and the EU itself favours small member states.

    Meanwhile we have total dunces in Westminster throwing away Scotland’s Future, and the future of our young folk, it’d make you weep. All for the sake of them selling off their NHS and anything else the City folk can get their greedy greedy little mitts on.

  105. yesindyref2 says:

    Okey-doke. One of the things I and others have said is that regardless of which party government of iScotland, or policies unless we’re going to wall ourselves off from the rest of the world (laughs), is that iScotland would see a large influx of embassies. Indeed France already has if it went through, acquired a building to move to as currently the “House of France” in the spirit of the Auld Alliance.

    So a wee project I may run with (or not if someone else is better suited or wants to do it) is – embassies. And the jobs and economic benefit associated with them. Currently none in Scotland as embassies, but there are 51 “Consulates General, Consulates and other missions”. Most of these would presumably turn into full embassies on or after our Independence.

    Compared to Ireland with full embassies (57) or Slovakia same population (45), both countries with missions accredited from other countries (London or Prague basically).

  106. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Does anyone familiar with Scottish Govt protocols know whether or not it is within the competence of the parliament to legislate on MSP’s statutory obligations e.g. could MSPs be required to provide a minimum number of constituent surgeries per parliamentary session?

    Can’t imagine why any MSP, aspiring or incumbent, would object to such a requirement if it was reasonable, say, at least one a month? Would that be ‘undemocratic’ or in any other way ‘out of order’? (Whether or not any of them would be embarrassed by such a debate is another matter right enough…)

    Doing a wee Twitter poll on that question right now and will report the result back here at midnight on Sunday.

  107. manandboy says:

    The pressure of looming deadlines on Brexit is producing an outbreak of plain and frank speaking from EU leaders and diplomats, the exception being Theresa May. The Guardian comments sections contain some of the very best from we the people.

  108. manandboy says:

    Brexit continues to bypass the politically illiterate among both the general population as well as in the Media, but to anyone paying attention it’s the only game in town.

    As for the UK generally, it is fast becoming a ‘failed state’ in which all reality has been obscured in favour of propaganda designed to protect and secure the power and wealth of a tiny minority, starting with the Tory Party.

    Now let me see, what’s on the telly tonight? Actually, it doesn’t matter, I’ll watch it anyway.

  109. manandboy says:

    With a campaign of lies in Indy2014, Better Together persuaded half of Scotland that so much would go wrong upon ‘separation’ from the UK. Now, they are blind to the same consequences, but now true, of separation from the EU.

    Remember these warnings from 2014 –

    “you’ll lose access to our single market”

    “think of all the border problems”

    “what about all our investments. those’ll stop”

    “all the new state institution’s you’re gonna need. expensive”

    “it’ll be really, really, hard for english companies to operate cross-border”

    “you’re gonna spend lots of time and money and you’ll get nothing in return”

    “you’re squandering your future. you’re being lied to”

    “get ready to pay more tax and accept a lower standard of living”

    England is still too big, but now too poor, and too stupid to have any say in Scotland.

    It’s 7am. Wake up Scotland!

  110. Robert Louis says:

    If you had been watching the TV propaganda ‘news’ over the last few days, you will have come away with the impression that the Salzburg meeting was all about brexit. We saw the EU leaders all flying in, and being greeted at the venue etc..Then told how this was the ‘make or break’ meeting for brexit with EU leaders etc..

    However, a BBC Presenter yesterday, when questioned on live TV, let the cat out of the bag. When asked how much coverage their was of brexit in the EU member states, he replied, not very much. Then he went on to say (paraphrasing), that actually the meeting in Salzburg isn’t about brexit, but actually about other EU business like immigration, election results and other EU things.

    The UK ‘media’ has for the last week created the real impression that the Salzburg meeting was called in order to discuss brexit etc.. but in reality, Theresa May was just piggy backing onto a meeting of the EU on other business.

    Apparently only a tiny amount of time was devoted to brexit, the rest was other EU business.

    British unionist media, leading the way in global propaganda, as usual.

  111. Nana says:


    Some of you might want to sign up
    Tomorrow’s podcast is up RIGHT NOW for @Patreon backers. Sign up if you want to be the first kid in your block to hear new regular @ingridoliver100 @IanDunt @nndroid and SNP MEP @AlynSmith thrashing out that whole Brexit/#indyref2/Remain mess:

    Standardised tests in Scotland are not being used in a way which causes concern, an educational adviser has said.

  112. Nana says:

    The huge refurbished dry dock at Kishorn Port (KPL) is the only facility of its kind in the UK ready to accept major North Sea decommissioning projects, the Oil and gas Authority’s (OGA) head of supply chain Bill Cattanach has said.

  113. Nana says:

    BBC Scotland has an online version of weekend GMS that’s aimed at young people. Sounds like Uni students talking politics. Patronising but dangerous. Will echo MSM narrative to youthful ears. Here’s a flavour as they discuss P1 assessments.

    With the EU rejecting May’s Chequers plan then walking away with no deal and relying on WTO accords is looking more and more likely. Who backed walking away when asked during the Scottish election campaign in 2016 … Yep, you’ve guessed … Ruth …

    Scottish Borders Council and NHS Borders consider merger

    Desperate after dinner speech from the Prime Minister.
    Nicola warns of Blind Brexit – another name for no deal and no smooth transition.
    Scotland can revoke the acts of union after a yes vote – whenever its held.

  114. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Here’s link to the Twitter poll asking if MSPs should be required, by law, to hold constituent surgeries. Currently, it would seem, they are not.

    Over 400 votes cast in the last couple of hours, 96% saying Yes.

    This is clearly an open door for the SNP – even holding a debate on it would put Ruth’s gas at a peep and enhance Holyrood’s democratic credentials. What’s not to like?

  115. Macart says:


    Ayup! That should be the big story today. PM gets TELT! UK meeja spin quite predictable though. Johnny Furriner is being awfully beastly to our plucky and practical PM.

    Not ‘EU does exactly what it said it was going to do for the past two years’. Honestly, you’d think the media, the political class and their support have been walking around for TWO SOLID YEARS wi thur fingers stuck in their ears yelling LA LA LA LA LA, I CAN’T HEAR YOU!

    Not only that, but the EU members and negotiating team have been regularly insulted by both senior ministers and the UK media. Soooooo yeah! Yes, they did feel it was about time the shoe was on the other foot and made a very public spectacle of Ms May.

    Just t’be clear though. She’s not plucky or practical. UKgov hasn’t bent over backwards to be reasonable and the EU is not an enemy or opponent, or some evil stranger. They did nothing wrong in this whole process. The UKgov has grandstanded, threatened, demanded exceptional status and treated their opposite numbers with disdain and arrogance.

    Wait! I’m seeing possibly a historic pattern forming in their actions there. (sigh) 🙄

    Regardless, the EU WILL protect the interests of its member states and WILL NOT undermine their own principles of the four freedoms. The principles which underline their very existence.

    Yer meeja and political class are watching the stormclouds gather I’d reckon. When it breaks, (and it will break), they’re going to have a lot of explaining to do to the populations of these islands. They’re also going to need some pretty dark holes to hide in when folk don’t like their answers. (and they won’t)

    As I said above: “Helluva handicap to take into that world and a helluva payoff for a Tory pissing contest.

    Their choice.”


  116. Hamish100 says:


    Data showing how Scotland’s opposition to English Government and Hanoverian rule was quashed.

    Who would have thought it? Who will now teach it?

  117. admiral says:

    Ian Brotherhood says:
    21 September, 2018 at 8:21 am
    Here’s link to the Twitter poll asking if MSPs should be required, by law, to hold constituent surgeries. Currently, it would seem, they are not.

    At the very least there should be a requirement for MSPs to issue an annual report detailing their activities in and out of Parliament, including interactions both formal and informal with constituents. It could be required as part of a candidacy.

    We employ them, we pay them, they are accountable to us so if anyone doesn’t like it they should be disqualified from candidacy.

  118. mike cassidy says:

    Ian Brotherhood.

    Is there a direct link to statistical evidence of the number of Davidson’s constituency surgeries – or lack thereof?

    I know its fun to say she’s only held one.

    Or maybe 2!

    But is it credible?

  119. galamcennalath says:

    Eleventh hour for a Brexit Withdrawal Agreement, and the Tories are still down the rabbit hole.

    Nothing has happened on the key issues for months.

    For the WA, the Irish border can be easily solved, NI in the single market and customs Union for goods. It’s on the table and just needs signed off. May’s alternative solution has always been that a magical cherry picked future trade agreement will resolve the NI issue by applying the same wishful-thinking rules to the whole UK.

    The EU won’t allow cherry picking. A parallel customs and rules arrangement for good only to the single market system is a non starter, always was. On Chequers the EU politely said, security proposals are good, economic ideas won’t work.

    My reading of what just happened at Salzburg….

    The EU offered May a Carrot. A damned good offer under the circumstances. Accept the backstop of NI in full single market for goods and May gets two things in return. Firstly a soft approach to the inevitable border in the Irish Sea with trusted traders and flexible checking. Secondly a vague statement on future trade to allow Brexit to happen smoothly. Whether it’s Canada or Norway, can be trashed out later.

    What did May do? Refused the carrot and antagonised the EU.

    So the stick came out. If not to actually beat May, it was certainly used to chase her away to think again.

  120. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    Ian Brotherhood at 8.21

    Would be interesting to know what Ross Greer does exactly.

    BTW. Don’t think the P1 assessment attack is working out as they had hoped

  121. Glamaig says:

    Comedy gold on GMS 7am news bulletin this morning as the BBC quote an RAC report (UK wide but they didnt say that of course, happy to put the implication out there that it was Scotland) as saying that people now rely on their cars more because train services are so bad with millions of delayed and cancelled journeys.

    Seconds later, ‘and now the traffic report. No problems on Scotlands railways this morning…’

    I assume this is the report they are referring to

    I searched for ‘train’ and found this in a wee box

    1988 Flashback
    In comparison with 1988, almost twice
    as many motorists used buses, coaches
    and trams in 2008, while the use of trains
    by car owners had increased by 56% over
    the previous 20 years. But 72% of motorists
    in 2008 said there was a ‘pressing need
    for improvements and investment in public
    transport’ if they were to make the shift
    from their cars.

    Have they used this side note as the basis for a 7am headline?

  122. mike cassidy says:

    Re Msps.

    Here’s a quote from the relevant information file.

    “It is common for MSPs to hold surgeries in the evening or at weekends. These may be held at MSPs’ constituency or regional offices. Surgeries can also be held at other locations within the local area such as libraries, community centres or shopping centres. Surgeries provide an opportunity for members of the public to meet with their MSPs and raise any issues or concerns they may have”

    Presumably the phrase “It is common” means it is an expected duty rather than some contractual obligation.

  123. jfngw says:


    I can understand the EU reticence about Scotland. If the opinion polls were indicating a substantial Yes vote then some may be willing to say something. As it is they could look foolish saying anything too positive about Scotland and we turn round and vote No.

    Personally I find it hard to understand why Yes is not way ahead in the polls, it would seem we have a death wish for our future, tied to a country that wants to go down the USA model for all our services. I’m too old now for it to make a much direct difference to me either way, but I am concerned for my children/grandchildren.

  124. Tinto Chiel says:

    Nana: quite liked IndyCar Gordon’s “With one bound Jock was free” idea of using the Royal Prerogative to abolish the Acts of Union if we win an advisory referendum, presuming May refuses a Section 30 order.

    Sounds too good to be true, unfortunately. I think Britnats would be instructed to boycott such a vote in an attempt to reduce its legitimacy.

  125. Clootie says:

    What I find depressing about the voting/poll stats in the article is the rise in the Tory support as Labour declines.
    Labour voters switching to Tory!!!

    On reflection it probably wasn’t such a difficult choice for unionists to make.

  126. Marydo!l says:

    I think it’s very obvious from the amount t of abuse that Scotland is receiving now, and how the man and end have turned their attacks up to more than 11…that the polls are high

  127. Marydoll says:

    I think by the amount of attacking from the msm and ebc and the news that the ‘scottish government ‘( not the scottish civil service ) are going to contest alex salmond judicial review proves that the polls are high

  128. HandandShrimp says:

    Attempted to watch Brexit Time last night. Lasted as long as the Telegraph journalists first rant in support of total Brexit.

    I don’t know where England is going but the isolationism expressed is quite disturbing.

  129. Shinty says:

    Tinto Chiel says, “I think Britnats would be instructed to boycott such a vote in an attempt to reduce its legitimacy”

    Then it would be up to us to ensure we get over 50% of the electorate voting YES.

  130. Hamish100 says:


    I don’t need Corbyn’s permission to do anything.

    Statement Ends.

  131. Dorothy Devine says:

    I’m in a negative frame of mind so I’d like a bill poster stating

    If you vote for the union you will lose free prescriptions
    If you vote for the union you will lose free parking at hospitals
    And you may even lose the Scottish National health service
    if you vote for the union your children and grandchildren will lose free education.
    If you vote for the union you will lose freedom of travel in Europe
    if you vote for the union you will lose unemployment benefit .
    If you vote for the union you will lose disability benefit
    If you vote for the union you will lose human rights
    If you vote for the union you will be voting for the lowest pension in Europe

    If you vote for the union you will lose bigtime.

  132. galamcennalath says:

    Shinty says:

    Then it would be up to us to ensure we get over 50% of the electorate voting YES.

    Agreeing to a percentage of electorate, many of whom are totally disinterested in politics or even simply don’t understand it, is far from ideal. 40% was infamously applied in 1979.

    On a good turnout of 80%, half the electorate would mean >62.5% Yes in the final count.

    I think the big problem would actually be that when many soft Yessers knew the BritNats were being asked to boycott, they also wouldn’t be motivated to turn out. We need IndyRef2 to sound like a close run fight to get numbers out.

    I would do it differently and stick with the usual >50% rule. And make clear we intend to act upon a Yes win with votes cast. That would encourage NO voters to ignore the boycott and turn out.

    As longs as half voters turn out and more than half of those want Indy, then that seems conclusive. As conclusive as any other vote there’s been.

  133. Collie says:

    Brexit Is heaven sent.

    It is a Golden Opportunity for Scotland.

    Now it is all about timing.

    Over to you Nicola, our future rests in your hands.

  134. schrodingers cat says:

    Shinty says:

    Then it would be up to us to ensure we get over 50% of the electorate voting YES.
    i posted a comment about this months back

    on a turnout of 85% (as in indyref1) we would need 2.25 million yes votes, a 63% yes win

    this is 50% of the total electorate, including dead folk etc.

    there are different levels of winning.

    this would be indisputable.

    we are a long way from that. if the polls showed this level of support, i would call for indyref2 tomorrow.

  135. Dr Jim says:

    British Nationalist opinion: Are we safe in our own country

    It’s none of Nicola Sturgeons business
    Nicola Sturgeon should be getting behind Brexit
    Nicola Sturgeon should stop interfering in Brexit
    Nicola Stugeons attitude is why Brexit is bad
    Nicola Sturgeon only cares about Independence
    Nicola Sturgeon wants a hard Brexit
    Nicola Sturgeon wants to be ruled by Brussels
    Nicola Sturgeon likes immigrants

    The depth of consistancy in these opinions makes it clear that no matter what Nicola Sturgeon did or didn’t do this group of peoples expressed views are a simple hatred and fear of Scotland having a choice or indeed an opinion on anything so they express it in the only way they can by hating the name of the person the people of Scotland voted to represent them and that translates to a hatred of us as a people

    We have no right to be a people in their minds
    What does that tell you about the people who feel like that
    and do you feel safe and secure that our neighbouring country and indeed some of them here in Scotland think this way

    The above evidence that you’ve all seen and heard on TV and on the Internet points almost conclusively to the fact that rather than the propagandised *Scots hate the English* stories it is in fact the other way round because the media and the *English* government have made this so and just as they’ve attempted to do with with Europe because of their own xenophobia, Scotland faced with the same behaviour must push back every bit as hard as our European friends have done to preserve and protect our country from this maniacal lunacy which if we stay in this Union will not end well

    Maybe after a bit of time the folks in England will be able to look back at how this all happened and force some kind of change in their country but in the meantime Scotland can’t wait for them to do that

    So we must must must start the car and Gettyfuh

    These are my own opinions and NOT Nicola Sturgens because she’s not allowed to have any

  136. schrodingers cat says:

    social media is awash with remainers claiming only 35% of the population voted leave. for many, this is the biggest argument for having euref2

    go figure

  137. galamcennalath says:

    ” The British motorbike can’t survive the head-on collision with the monster lorry that is the EU27 …. The problem is that much of the British political elite doesn’t accept the premise: they don’t think this a collision between a motorbike and a monster lorry. They see it as a collision between two vehicles of equal weight. “

    There’s a lot of truth in that analogy. The Tories, genetically programmed with superiority and exceptionalism, just cannot bring themselves to accept their subservient status in Brexit. This was never a negotiation, it is meant to be the UK signing up to the EU’s exit terms with some scope for minor tweeting.

  138. Shinty says:

    @ galamcennalath.

    Since this is all hypothetical. Suppose there was a NO vote boycott, but still some No’s voted (as they would) wouldn’t that nullify the boycott?
    (ie a boycott would only work if there wasn’t a single ballot paper voting no. – otherwise they would be shooting themselves in the foot)

  139. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Youse all know I like doing daft wee polls on The Twitter, but this one feels a bit different.

    By the time this message appears there will have been 1,000 votes cast since approx 6.30 this morning.

    The question is very simple:

    ‘Should all MSPs be required by law to make themselves available for regular constituent surgeries?’

    So far, it’s 96% Yes, only 1% saying No. (Other 3% is ‘Mibbes Aye’)

    Depending on what the number is on Sunday (midnight) when it closes, we could be looking at raising a formal petition to the Scottish Govt, and if we get enough signatures it would force a debate. Tempted to do it right now but hoping that a ‘name’ will get onboard and give it some profile, perhaps have a discussion about the precise wording before launching it.

    In the meantime, please use whatever means you have to spread the link and generate as many votes as possible in the next 60 hours. The potential impact of such a debate (being called-for let alone happening) is obvious, as is the identity of a specific MSP who would be very keen to avoid it.

    So, please vote, copy, share etc.


  140. Graf Midgehunter says:

    A question:

    has anything happened to the Rev’s twitter?
    The last posts were 12/22 hrs ago and since then no sign of life.

    Am I missing some background info – won on the poker and moved to Rio..!!?? ;-/

  141. Cubby says:

    Robert J Sutherland@2.37 am

    I agree with all your comments.

    I think that it is now time for all Independence supporters to dispense with calling them unionists as they have clearly shown to anyone who is awake that the Treaty may be legally and technically a Union but in practice it is a Westminster dictatorship and a more accurate term is British Nationalists.

    Scotland is treated like a colony not a partner in a Union.

  142. galamcennalath says:


    Re boycott, yes, it would probably be counter productive to their cause one way or another.

    Perhaps if the polls imply a yes win, they have nothing left but a boycott in the hope of dragging things out arguing legitimately later. We have learnt recently that playing for time in the short term is as far as Tory planning goes these days.

  143. Hamish100 says:

    blast – brent crude nearly $80 a barrel. Woe is us!

    If only we had no oil we would be better off!!

  144. jfngw says:

    It doesn’t really matter if No boycott the vote, the important vote is the Yes vote. Anything over 1.8m would indicate that Yes had won using the result of the last vote as a comparison, 2m would be a emphatic win (as the No camp keep telling us about 2014).

    If soft yessers decide they can’t be bothered voting then we just have to accept that nothing is ever going to motivate them. There are those that like to sit on the fence and gripe, I didn’t vote for that, as if it is some type of high ground making no decision (potential Tory MP material).

  145. galamcennalath says:

    Cubby says:

    Scotland is treated like a colony not a partner in a Union.

    Very much so. There is no Union. From our perspective it looks like a colonial situation.

    BritNats look in it differently. For them Scotland is just one region among many in their ‘Britain’ which is in reality a Greater England. And that is true if they are from London or Inverurie. They so often compare Scotland to say Yorkshire. For us that’s offensive, but they actually mean and believe it!

    After Indy, the hard core BritNats are going to find adjusting very difficult!

  146. Giving Goose says:

    I simply do not understand why Britnats continue to accept the humiliations heaped upon their beloved UK by the EU.

    Bizarre in the extreme how BritNats are puffing up with pride at their glorious UK which is actually a laughing stock on the world stage.

    It’s not just the EU who are throwing cake and cherry jokes at the UK.

    Is this what it is to be British – turned into a target for stale cake humour? John Bull my arse.

    Where is pride in the BritNats?

    They can do so much better by shaking off the Union Jack clown suit.

  147. Confused says:

    You always have to take something positive from a bad experience.

    Treeza can now say “Get Tae Fuck” in 27 other languages/dialects.

    The Diary of Ms Theresa May, aged 97 and 3/4

    20 Sep 2018 – salzburg, meeting with european leaders

    – I thought that went well, overall.

    But when should I expect a call-back – should I wait 2 days, then text them, or should I wait for them to do me?

    Swiped a lot of guys on Tinder, but they all looked a bit “foreign”.

    That Merkels a total slag LOL. She dun it bareback with 3 albanian “taxi drivers” behind the fountains. Said they wanted a passport.

    That Boris Johnson – he would SHAG ANYTHING IN A SUICIDE VEST. TOTAL CREEP.

    Scotch Nikki had a AMAZING creme suit today – hate her – thinks shes SO COOL – but I’m the BIG BITCH on this island.

    Got to keep this job a bit longer, else I wont afford a new iPhone – its total brill.

    Donald-the-T-MAN must phone soon. (ILUVHIM!!!XXXX)

  148. Cubby says:

    It looks like the Westminster classic tactic of divide and rule is doomed to failure as May is sent home with her tail between her legs fom Salzburg. The EU would have seen this tactic coming a mile away and would have been ready.

    What sort of diddy other than hardcore Britnats would want to be governed by these incompetent Westminster politicians.

    Independence is the norm. Advocating being ruled by another countries politicians who have proven time and time again that they are useless and do not care a jot about Scotland is very very abnormal.

    Vote for Independence and vote for Scotland to take its place among the family of normal independent countries.

  149. Dr Jim says:

    The Tories always have a long term plan:

    Some folk getting annoyed when some of us use the term English Government because they don’t realise that although it’s always been an English government really, they made and created an English government when they created EVEL excluding Scottish MPs from taking part on England matters, yet when it comes to UK matters everybody’s included because they say Scotland is a part of the UK, again another incorrect statement, Scotland is supposed to be a *partner* not a *part* of the UK like say Yorkshire which is a region of England the country which owns that part

    In Scotland which is a country the Government (Tory) who controls it has little support at around 23% but they control Scotland from another country (England) using the term UK to do that
    The devolved government in Scotland (SNP) enjoys around 40% of the vote plus has the largest representation in the UK(English) parliament of Scottish MPs by some considerable distance and if as current public opinion suggests that is about to increase again should there be another General Election if the SNP choose to contest in it
    (subject to Independence)

    The English government has decided that in order to glean more votes for themselves while at the same time attempting to lessen the SNP popularity has decided it will move the constituency borders around to include more of what they hope will be Tory voters and at the same time reduce the amount of Scottish MPs being returned to Westminster the now even faster becoming total English parliament, and they’re doing that under the guise of lessening the total numbers of MPs overall because of ??????? can’t be money or they’d lose the House of Lords or at least some of them

    Now even if you’re not a SNP voter alarm bells should be deafening you by now because this move by Westminster is not about more equally representing anybody it’s about making sure there is LESS opposition from anybody else no matter which party it is you vote for making the English governments advance to full dictatorship a lot more easy but you’ll be too stupid to notice that

    So if you’re a Labour voter or a Lib Dem or a Green this affects you even though you might think it’s totally about those nasty Scottish Nationalists it’s not Y’know it’s about less opposition to the Tories no matter what form it takes

    Are you looking forward to President Boris or Jacob or….
    The Tories don’t love America for nothing y’know, their admiration for a democratic dictatorship runs deep

  150. frogesque says:

    @Cubby 12.40

    And still yet. Out on motorway bridge today with a YES2 flag and a good positive reaction as always.

    But, there is always a but, still some giving the finger and flicking a V.

    We are in their faces, we know it, they know it. They are very much in the minority and they are losing.

    Bridges, roundabouts, town centres, wherever. Let everyone know we are not going away! As Nicola says, we have a right to demonstrate peacefully. Use that right!

  151. Macart says:

    There’s never any popcorn left when you need some.

  152. Effijy says:

    Good old Dunc the Pedigree Chump!

    Thank God that half wit isn’t on our side.

    Are people like him safe to go out by themselves when they have no grasp on reality?

    Interesting reminder that the North Accounting Unit only brought in £100,000 in cash during 2016.

    That sum would be entirely used by the Dug in trying to support her name calling in between misleading the public.

    RE Corbyn promises: we know that the majority of labour MP’s don’t rate him and would put him out at the drop of a hat.
    The English Media will not allow anyone with left of centre leanings to gain power no matter what.
    If he could become PM HE won’t be in the job long enough to deliver any promises.

    We have had 100 years of Tory to Labour Swaps and Scotland took a pasting at every turn.
    Why on earth would Scotland not have learned its lesson after 100 years.

    Remember how Gordon Brown lied to Scotland about the Vow, the most powerful parliament in the world, not pensions in Scotland, no NHS, Transplant Lists, No Blood Transfusion Service if you dare to ditch your Colonial Masters.

    He shows the true face of Labour and they will never be trusted on anything again.

  153. Gary45% says:

    Just heard on LBC Treeeza giving a speech at 1.45.
    My wife recons GE, I think step down, (spineless excuse “I have taken this as far as I can”)

  154. Hamish100 says:


    Is Mundell the Governer General still standing up for Scotland? Has he ever?

    He is as absent as Davidson and as much use.

    Separately CNN news – brexit – a right wing tory commentator and a labour comedien/ political commentator for labour (the unfunny female who worked for Blair), BBC brexit – all political groups represented. Guess who is missing again?

    Impartiality? Not in the UK

  155. galamcennalath says:

    The court judgement to refer the question of ‘can Brexit be cancelled unilaterally’ to the Court of Justice of the EU (CJEU) is a beaut!

    If they then say, yes, then WM has the option to simply reverse the Article 50.

    That will give the mad bad right something to have nightmares about!

  156. Macart says:


    Yup! Never enough popcorn.

    The poop’s about to hit the proverbial. Mind and duck. 🙂

  157. Clootie says:

    Maybot plan is little different from Whitehalls campaigns from the Napoleonic War to the Cold War.
    “..blame those nasty foreigners” , “..their behaviour is non-British and outrageous” , “..we cannot let them do this to us” etc etc.

    The papers will whip up the Brexit mob to a determined stance…resulting in a hard Brexit. Maybot can claim it is what the public wanted. Tories United as a party with everyone aligned that the blame be heaped on the EU.

    The live statement later by Maybot will be to pour petrol on the bonfire to but with indignation over OUR treatment.

    Hard Brexit coming up fast now.

  158. Bob Mack says:

    Andy Wightman just won his case in Scottish courts. 3 judges agree to refer article 50 withdrawal to ECHJ for definitive answer.

    May now has to challenge verdict in Supreme Court,but time is pressing.

    Scots law v English law. The Scottish judges have done their bit. Brilliant news

  159. call me dave says:


    Read that a few minutes ago and shortbread tv about to tell us their version of it in a minute or two.

    This court ruling not on big Auntie tv yet but Mrs May about to announce something live about the state of Brexit soon.

    Brightening up a slow day I’m sure. 🙂

  160. Macart says:

    @call me dave

    Working out that way. 🙂

  161. HandandShrimp says:

    I’m thinking that May is just going to say that “Brexit means Brexit in a strong and stably Chequers sort of way … there is no alternative”.

  162. Thepnr says:


    Haha you’re probably right, in other words ignoring the reality again. Or she might hint that more time will be needed to get over this setback, jist a wee extension mind LOL.

    The whole thing is hilarious, pity it’s so serious.

  163. Vestas says:

    I’m waiting for the MSM end-game which I predicted to friends last year.

    England has its scapegoat – the dirty Irish (as usual) are refusing to tug the forelock & thwarting brave Blighty.

    Wait & see.

  164. ALAN GERRISH says:

    Dorothy Devine says:
    21 September, 2018 at 10:53 am
    I’m in a negative frame of mind so I’d like a bill poster stating

    If you vote for the union you will lose free prescriptions
    If you vote for the union you will lose free parking at hospitals
    And you may even lose the Scottish National health service
    if you vote for the union your children and grandchildren will lose free education.
    If you vote for the union you will lose freedom of travel in Europe
    if you vote for the union you will lose unemployment benefit .
    If you vote for the union you will lose disability benefit
    If you vote for the union you will lose human rights
    If you vote for the union you will be voting for the lowest pension in Europe

    Excellent post Dorothy. The list is endless, here are a few more:
    you will lose your Scottish parliament
    you will lose your Scottish Brand on all food and
    you will lose ANY chance to do anything different
    from what Westminster decides for you, whether you
    want it or not

    Also, you will GET:

    GM crops
    privatised water
    nuclear weapons

  165. admiral says:

    The Maybot’s statement delayed because of a “power failure” in 10 Downing Street.

    Tell us about it! 🙂

  166. call me dave says:

    PM doubling down on Brexit!

    Wants EU to solve the problem.

    No NI new border customs barrier…unless NI assembly agrees???

    I think I heard that,maybe a get out.

  167. Thepnr says:

    And there’s another Tory blunder! Spits out the dummy and throws a temper tantrum after her humiliation yesterday.

    Mistake after mistake. The EU will tell her to take a hike.

    British Nationalist Tories are the gift that just keep giving and we love them for it.

    Go’an yersel Theresa. Hip hip Hooray! Hip hip Horay! 🙂

  168. Dr Jim says:

    Theresa May starring in her own show there called……

    *Treezas big greetin faced whinge*

    “She threatened the world” said the Times “It’s my way or the highway” said the Telegraph “May lays down the law” said the Daily Mail

    Meanwhile in Scotland the population said He hE He hE He haw haw haw Ha Ha ha H and fell aff wur chairs guffawin till wur bellies burst

  169. Wullie B says:

    O/T I was chatting to a very credible source today and when I asked if it soon be time to start repainting the YES sings and chapping on doors, I got this reply after his head nodded “Very Soon, but after the October conference sadly”, and yes I trust what I was told was the truth, he finished with the comment, “I want to come home”

  170. Dorothy Devine says:

    Allan , excellent additions – I suspect if we put our minds to it there would be many more and there wouldn’t be a billboard big enough to take it!

  171. Macart says:

    Oh Jeez! Car crash. ?

    I don’t think she quite got the message yesterday you know. As in, is choosing to ignore it happened at all kinda thing.


    Also? ‘She won’t break up her country’!?!?… Mmmm she might want to rethink that statement. (cough)

  172. Vestas says:

    Based on what the Maybot is saying there can be no reason for the SNP NOT to pull thr trigger on indyref2 at conference.

    Brexit is a shambles, Westminster in chaos, a united Ireland looking more likely by the day….

    Unless of course they want a signed guarantee of victory?

    Do it!

  173. Dan Huil says:

    It still looks like a No deal. A united Ireland and an independent Scotland to follow.

  174. Gary45% says:

    Ooops got that wrong with Tereeeza.
    Daily Heil front page tomorrow?
    The Empire Strikes Back with Saint Tereeeza as Skywalker,
    Tusk as Darth.
    Little BritNats ecstatic with “World Leader??” Treeeza, showing them who’s boss!!!
    Expect the EU to tell them to GTF.

  175. HandandShrimp says:


    Yup it is a farce aided and abetted by the Tory Kippers.

    Looks like she intends to bash on with her Chequers plan, nothing for NI and nothing on the SM and CU. She can’t seriously expect the EU to agree trade on favourable terms but leave the UK to do business with everyone else.

    They have 6 weeks but Parliament closes for the next 3 weeks for Party Conferences. The last three weeks of October should be fun.

  176. Thepnr says:

    Less than a week ago the BBC and most of the broadsheets were telling everybody that the EU would be providing TM with some good news at Salzburg to help her through the Tory conference. Close to a deal, easiest deal ever LOL

    Hahahahaha sorry can’t help myself, her advisors should be reading Wings 🙂

  177. One_Scot says:

    ‘We love you EU citizens’

    Lol, echos of, ‘We love you Scotland’

    See how well that worked out. 🙁

  178. Proud Cybernat says:

    Pound is now tanking after Mayhem’s statement. Down 1.41% against US$.

  179. One_Scot says:

    #ScotRef May/June next year.

  180. Bob Mack says:

    The last lady who extolled the virtues of having cake for the commoners when none was available,eventually lost her head and started a revolution.

    I think we just heard the pistol being loaded to start indyref2 .

  181. Thepnr says:

    She will never agree to a deal that would break up the UK.

    You’ve just succeeded in doing exactly that yah cretin hahahaha

  182. Macart says:


    Awesome display of mediocrity from Treeza. She really did just stick her fingers in her ears and scream LALALALALALALA! I CAN’T HEAR YOU!

    It’s the only plausible explanation.

    Onywise. Looking like yer akchul hard brexit then.

  183. Dr Jim says:

    Can Boris’s men gain entry to the bunker to poison the Fuhrer while she’s at her weakest, will her trusted aides leave a door unlocked, will the Novichok be taken out the fridge and used again, will the Gurkhas fight for Blighty after they never got paid the last time and will Joanna Lumley be recalled to persuade them, Scotland is sharpening its kilts and ironing its swords, Nicola Sturgeon sends for her horse and gets new shiny armour made

    Oh what a wheeze we’re going to have in the coming weeks

  184. Petra says:

    Thanks for the links Nana. You’re one of the shining lights of the Yes movement, Nana. God knows how many people you’ve managed to “convert”: enabled us to convert. And when this is all over, in the not too distant future, you and your contribution will still be spoken of, imo.


    Oh dearie me the Scots throwing a spanner in the works again, lol. Imagine that, the too wee, poor and stupid Jocks having enough ken to bu**er things up for them. And when we leave even more of the “myths” that they’ve been fed about Scotland will disappear down the stank along with their economy.

    And now Karma’s hitting on Westminster big time. Their treatment of Ireland coming back to bite them on the ar*e. Won’t be too long now before they really turn on Scotland and NIreland when playing their Westminster blame game. On the other hand Remainers in England must be in awe of our fantastic politicians, activists and so on. Wishing they had something comparable south of the border. Sorry you’re no getting them, folks. Get off of your butts and do something about your highly corrupt, undemocratic situation / system, after all there’s 50 million plus of you in England to 5 million people in Scotland. And don’t we know it.’s-cover-up-of-the-genocide-in-ireland/


    And if you missed this last night (Arbroath 1320 at 11: 28pm) it’s worth a read, imo.

  185. Hamish100 says:

    Theresa may

    sickening hypocracy statement by May on democracy.

    DUP happy.

  186. Macart says:

    Jings! Twatter going mental and natch, the pound dipped on the markets.


  187. Petra says:

    @ Dorothy at 2:19pm ……. “a bill board not big enough’.

    However we could all work on adding to that list Dorothy, including a reference for each point, and get it out as a flier. If not on here at O/T. I’m sure that the Rev would also let us fund raise to cover the costs.

  188. Dan Huil says:

    Pass the popcorn. Empire2.0 ha ha ha!

  189. ronnie anderson says:

    What Nth Irish assembly is Tereza referring to the one administered by the Nth Irish Secretary from London .

    The EUs watching Tereza yer up shit creek without a paddle .

  190. Marie Clark says:

    Whit a wummin big Treeza is. Arrogant and totally delusional.

    It’s up to the EU to come forward with their proposals now. Er, em, naw it isnae. England wants tae leave, they don’t get to dictate terms tae everyone else. Such a sense of entitlement.

    I don’t think that the EU will think very much of this statement really. I think the tories live on another planet to the rest of us. What happens now then, who knows. She re-emphasized all of her red lines, she can’t get agreement in her own party never mind the country. so what next? anybody!

    Ah well it looks very much like a hard brexit looming on the horizon. Not long now folks. I’m sure our Nicola is watching all of this like a hawk.

  191. Socrates MacSporran says:

    Theresa May’s statement in plain English:

    Look here, Johnny Foreigner; we’re England, and what we say goes. You give us the deal we want, or, you’ll be sorry.

    And if you don’t, I’ll skweam and skweam and skweam until I make myself sick – just you watch if I don’t.

  192. Dan Huil says:

    May daring the EU to put up a border between Ireland and Northern Ireland. She really believes the people of all Ireland will blame the EU. Bless.

    What larks!

  193. K1 says:

    When Wings btl comments become increasingly 24 hr…into the wsh’s…ah always get the sense that something big is afoot.

    The ground is shifting.

  194. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Cubby @ 11:51,
    galamcennalath @ 12:14,


    I don’t recall Yorkshire ever signing a Treaty of Union with England, f’r example, guaranteeing certain inalienable rights.

  195. CameronB Brodie says:

    yesindyref2 @ 2:55pm today
    “It’s a common base to work from.”

    I’d suggest the next step is to establish what the objections are, then systematically reasure the doubts. Easier said than done as it’s a very complex debate, and folk have a propensity to swallow any shit so long as their is no alternative presented (i.e. our cognitive tendency towards internaliszing the prevailing ‘truth’ – phenomenal conservatism). This explains the BBC’s culture of exclusion and cultural partiality.

    Definitely a very encouraging sign though, suggesting at least some No voters appear to be using their rationality and have good intent.

    The Ethics of Human Enhancement: Understanding the Debate.
    Chapter 12 Partiality for Humanity and Enhancement

  196. CameronB Brodie says:

    I was too quick on the trigger there, although the previous link helps highlight the significance of partiality.

    The Justification of National Partiality
    [From The Morality of Nationalism, edited by Robert McKim and Jeff McMahan.]

  197. Shinty says:

    admiral says at 2:00 pm
    “The Maybot’s statement delayed because of a “power failure” in 10 Downing Street.

    Tell us about it! ?”

    Big smiley thing!

  198. Dr Jim says:

    My My the airwaves are awash with folk from England claiming Scotland isn’t a country again and we can’t go unless they say so, and what’s wrong with these folk from Yorkshire claiming they have the same rights as Scotland, they don’t seem to realise they live in the country of England

    Take it up with your own Politicians Yorkshire it’s got sod all to do with us, see that’s the problem nobody ever *asks* Scotland anything we get told to shut up and do as we’re told …….by everybody! As they’re drinking our water, switching on their lights with our leccy, fuelling their cars with our oil, sticking their Union flags on our Aberdeen angus beef, drinking our Whisky and Gin and Craft Beers and all while they’re eating Irish sausages

    Christ on a bike it’s nae wonder other folk cannae wait for the sea level tae rise

  199. Bob Mack says:

    Broadcast media studiously trying to not mention today’s judgement by the Scottish Court.

    Right lads just ignore it and it will go away. Either that or they truly have no idea of the actual implications. That would not surprise me at all.

  200. One_Scot says:

    Yup, after Mayhems dressing down, I’m sure the EU will seen sense, bend over and take it with a stiff upper lip.

  201. Les Wilson says:

    Watching May’s speech on Sky News, I find that I am beginning to believe in the reptilian conspiracy.

  202. Socrates MacSporran says:

    Bob Mack @ 3.35pm

    What planet are you on Bob? BBC Shortbread actually ran with this story, quite high up the running order at lunch time, and they gave it a very good show.

  203. Alba 46 says:

    The weeks before the latest EU summit, TM was going round the various EU leaders trying to get her deal accepted. Going behind the back of Barnier,Junker etc. The old colonial trick of divide and rule.

    Basically after yesterdays summit she has been told to take a hike. The english government was well warned 2 years ago there would be no watering down of the four EU freedoms. They just don’t get it that when you leave an organisation you don’t call the shots. There rules won’t change just because you have decided to leave.

    Macron got it right when he said that the liars who advocated leaving the EU have walked away and left TM and her chaotic government to get on with it.

    I am sure the the EU leaders will not be in the slightest concerned by this petulant rant by TM. Must be like being savaged by a kipper.

    This speech was not aimed at the EU it was for home consumption, trying to show how tough she was. She failed. She was like a schoolgirl who failed to get her own way and I could imagine her stamping her feet behind the lectern as she gave her speech.

    Bloody pathetic

  204. Jock McDonnell says:

    @Bob Mack
    Yeah, yoon stream ignoring it. Probably because news channels are viewable outside uk.
    Can’t have Jocky getting international coverage when he’s poked Westminster in the eye.

  205. Tatu3 says:

    Could someone post a link to the Spider’s Web film please. I have “lost” mine. Thanks

  206. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Bob Mack @ 15:35,

    Interesting. Here’s a couple of links for anyone wishing to follow it up:

    The indefatigable Alyn Smith, who was another of the campaigners:

    “European Court to decide if UK can revoke Article 50 in ‘bombshell’ ruling”:

    The decision from Lord Carloway, Scotland’s most senior judge and Lord President of the Court of Session, overturns a ruling in June when it was said the question being asked was “hypothetical” and the conditions for a reference had not been met.

    But Lord Carloway said it was “clear” MPs at Westminster would be required to vote on any Brexit deal agreed by the EU and the UK Government.

    He stated: “It seems neither academic nor premature to ask whether it is legally competent to revoke the notification and thus to remain in the EU. The matter is uncertain in that it is the subject of a dispute; as this litigation perhaps demonstrates.

    “The answer will have the effect of clarifying the options open to MPs in the lead up to what is now an inevitable vote.”

    It is no exaggeration to say this is a case that could decide the fate of the nation. You can see the decision here:

  207. Thepnr says:

    The games up as far as Brexit goes, the next EU summit is on the 18th Oct, less than 4 weeks away and with Westminster in recess now until 9th Oct the negotiations are effectively dead.

    What can May possibly have to take back to this summit?

    Nothing that will satisfy anybody would be my guess and so an emergency summit in November without further compromise on both sides is out the window and talks come to a halt.

    The UK won’t be flung out there and then and it will be up to Parliament as to whether to seek an extension to Article 50 in order to have a General Election. No way could May lead the Tories into another election so she would have to go first.

    I don’t see the People’s Vote getting a look in without a change in Government and even then the chances I would think are slim. Labour under Corbyn would want to try for a deal of their own unless he offers EU2 before an election in an attempt to increase support which is unlikely.

    Personally I’d rather see it done and dusted by November so as we in Scotland can get on with our own referendum but there are still too many in the EU and UK who want some kind of deal and they will cling on to the bitter end.

    Only one thing is certain and that is we are going to get plenty more thrills and spills as well as laughs along the way. For Scotland this is going swimmingly in my opinion 🙂

  208. Old Pete says:

    How much longer is Nicola going to wait ?
    There is an opportunity here, surely we have to go for it ? So come on Nicola a declaration of intent at the SNP conference and let’s start the ball rolling for Independence.

  209. Thepnr says:


    “The Spiders Web” link.

  210. yesindyref2 says:

    @CameronB Brodie “I’d suggest the next step is to establish what the objections are

    Yes, very much so. And perhaps sometimes not to try to deny them, but maybe try to make them sound less scary. Mortgages was one that came up, and over a couple of weeks I must have spent a total of 4 or 5 full days googling everything in sight, checking bank and building society websites, and international bank websites, there’s just no info I found on “foreign” mortgages.

    Yet I remember people going for Swiss or French or other mortgages in the UK in the 90s so it’s done, and commercial debt is guaranteed by the Vienna Convention, so there’s a legal contract in place, whether a country secedes, splits or dissolves any treaties. As far as interest rates are concerned I just asked the question “Why should the interest rate go up at all?”. So that’s the best I was able to do.

    Silly things like “There’s nowhere to put Faslane” were easy for me of course 🙂

  211. Daisy Walker says:

    re the Brexit Madness and Nth Ireland…

    A no deal brexit, means that all bits of the UK will no longer be able to do frictionless trade with other parts of the EU… which means that there will Have to be a hard border between N and S Ireland so the EU can protect its Single Market integrity.

    The DUP have no legitimate legs to stand on with their current arguments – some form of special ‘wet’ border type accommodation for them is the only way any type of negotiated Brexit can work for them.

    Some type of negotiated Brexit is what RUK is also ‘allegedly’ attempting to agree.

    It makes no sense, other than from the point of view of a big pantomime exercise to kept punters occupied , while they crash out and avoid the tax haven legislation.

    Have just seen Terrible May’s latest. Bonkers.

    Is it too soon to start panic buying emergency supplies?

  212. CameronB Brodie says:

    Another thing that is certain, Brexit will harm Scotland’s public health if we allow ourselves to be dragged out of the EU. Without political sovereignty, Scots will never possess the agency needed to determine the health of their nation. That will always be the task of English voters, if Scotland remains bound to 18th century political morality.

  213. CameronB Brodie says:

    I think you need to first establish whether the objection is well grounded or fed by the yoonstream. I’m not denying the existence of justifiable reasons for concern from No voters, I just can’t think of any that can’t be resolved with a bit of practical effort and ingenuity. 😉

  214. Robert Peffers says:

    @Tatu3 says: 21 September, 2018 at 4:01 pm:

    ” … Could someone post a link to the Spider’s Web film please. I have “lost” mine. Thanks”

  215. CameronB Brodie says:

    Here’s a question for No voters. Do you support woman’s suffrage and the emancipation of woman’s agency? Yes, so why not the emancipation of Scotland’s agency? Or another one might be, are you a racist, if not, you might not be overly impressed by Brexitania? Or are you a white Tory, cause you might not feel too safe in Brexitania if you aren’t? 😉

  216. yesindyref2 says:

    @CameronB Brodie
    Indeed, but I’d probably already have asked “What do you think about Better Together?” to be told they think it’s a load of Project Fear rubbish, but that YES Scotland was as well, just saying “It’ll be all right on the night”. Well, they wanted to be told the risks and uncertainties, rather than just having YES campaigners denying they existed.

    Economy was an interesting one “I’m worried about the economy”, with a bit of fluffing my question would be basically “What about the economy?” and it turned out to be job, mortgage, food prices, etc. Basically speakinbg nobody actually cared about the economy, just how it affected them.

  217. yesindyref2 says:

    Indeed. Personally I declared the start of the campaign the moment Westminster went into summer recess, Holyrood having already gone. But it’s taking time getting up to speed, the last months, years, have been well, different. And perhaps the augurs are there anyway, the Keith Brown thing at the end of this month, the at least a month too late SIC thing on St Andrews Day. Chances are they’ll be announcing the start of their campaign a few weeks into the actual one. A dollar short, a month too late. But a lot of signs really though.

    Something’s in the air! Apart fron leaves, branches, trees even, sleet and salt spray that is.

  218. Wullie B says:

    Old Pete says:
    21 September, 2018 at 4:09 pm

    How much longer is Nicola going to wait ?
    There is an opportunity here, surely we have to go for it ? So come on Nicola a declaration of intent at the SNP conference and let’s start the ball rolling for Independence.

    Not long at all now, I know I said some vague things earlier but things are going to hot up very soon, not before conference, but expect the announcement in a matter of a few months 😉 according to my unnamed source (See Daily Record, I can do it to)

  219. CameronB Brodie says:

    Self-interest, or partiality for the self and significant others (i.e. family, partners), is the primary driving motive in political choice. We all see the world differently though and our personal circumstances, though similar to others, are unique. So we all have our particular concerns, preferences and priorities and arrive at our decisions along different pathways of reason.

    Political Choice in Britain


    Political Choice in Britain uses data from the 1964 to 2001 British election studies (BES), 1992 to 2002 monthly Gallup polls, and numerous other national surveys conducted over the past four decades to test the explanatory power of rival sociological and individual rationality models of electoral turnout and party choice. Analyses endorse a valence politics model that challenges the long-dominant social class model. British voters make their choices by evaluating the performance of parties and party leaders in economic and other important policy areas. Although these evaluations may be largely products of events that occur long before an election campaign officially begins, parties’ national and local campaign activities are also influential.

    Consistent with the valence politics model, partisan attachments display individual- and aggregate-level dynamics that reflect ongoing judgements about the managerial abilities of parties and their leaders. A general incentives model provides the best explanation of turnout. Calculations of the costs and influence-discounted benefits of voting and sense of civic duty are key variables in this model. Significantly, the decline in turnout in recent elections does not reflect more general negative trends in public attitudes about the political system. Voters judge the performance of British democracy in much the same way as they evaluate its parties and politicians. Support at all levels of the political system is a renewable resource, but one that must be renewed.

    Keywords: 2001 British election study, civic duty, democracy satisfaction, economic evaluations, election campaigns, general incentives model, party leaders, turnout, valence politics model, voting behaviour

    Ideology and the Theory of Political Choice

    A Model of Focusing in Political Choice


    This paper develops a model of voters’ and politicians’ behavior based on the notion that voters focus disproportionately on, and hence overweight, certain attributes of policies. We assume that policies have two attributes—benefits and costs—and that voters focus more on the attribute in which their options differ more. First, we consider exogenous policies and show that voters’ focusing polarizes the electorate. Second, we consider the endogenous supply of policies and show that focusing leads to inefficient policies, which cater excessively to social groups that are larger, have more distorted focus, and are more sensitive to changes in a single attribute.

    JEL Codes:
    D30, D72, D78

    Focus; Attention; Salience; Political Polarization; Probabilistic Voting Model; Electoral Competition; Behavioral Political Economy; Income Inequality; Redistribution

  220. yesindyref2 says:

    @Old Pete
    It almost definitely won’t be at the conference. The timetable is the same as it’s always been “When the terms of Brexit are clear”, and with the last planned EU summit on the 15th Oct I think, and the SNP Conference Sunday 7th – Tuesday 9th October, that’s BEFORE the terms can actually be known.

    Like you, like everybody, I’m thoroughly peed off by waiting even though I understand the timetable and agree with it.

  221. yesindyref2 says:

    @CameronB Brodie
    Self-interest, or partiality for the self and significant others (i.e. family, partners), is the primary driving motive in political choice.

    Absolutely. There are some who ask “But don’t you care about social justice, inclusion, equality liberty fraternity, nuclear free, woolly stuff, the environment?” and the often unspoken answer by many is “Not a lot. Will I be able to put food on the table, roof over the head / can I afford to go skiing three times a year and a new car every 3 years?”.

  222. CameronB Brodie says:

    Self-interest does not have to be incompatible with a concern for social well-being. Economic health does not have to come at the cost of social polorisation and environmental degradation. Scottish human rights do not have to be foregone as a cost of England’s post-colonial malaise and the absence of scope for democratic pluralism within the British ‘constitution’.

  223. Tatu3 says:

    Thank you Thepnr

  224. yesindyref2 says:

    @CameronB Brodie
    Indeed, but I think as secondary arguments – a bit of fill in waffle maybe!

  225. CameronB Brodie says:

    Absolutely, I’m just shoveling it on now. 😉

  226. Wullie B says:

    @yesindyref You are quite correct, it definately isnt happening at the conference, my SNP insider confirmed to me at roughly 1300hours today that terms of Brexit will be known, and this guy is very high in the party, but he said it will happen very soon when I asked him if we will be pounding streets chapping doors and repainting Yes signs, which will piss off our resident 77th Brigade member who seems to save every comment he says for use in the future to knock “Queen” Nicola

  227. yesindyref2 says:

    @Wullie B
    Yes, we’re gonna need more YES stickers! I think there could be more prepared to stick them in cars, vans, windows, anywhere this time. I’m hoping Edinburgh gets over the 100,000, that’ll send a big message. Nicely timed before the SNP Conference which will officially discuss anything but Independence referendums, and then the last planned European Council Summit – 18th October. They’d only have an extra one in November if there’s a deal, the next planned one is December 13th and 14th.

    It’s all happening, with the UKSC (UKSC 2018/0080 – EU WIthdrawal Bill Scotland judgment) to come soon. The 77th know it too, they’ll try anything 🙂

  228. Camz says:

    There was a time when Labour had traction. Now all they have is retraction.

  229. Stuart McLean says:

    I was listening to John Beattie yesterday asking guests where they were four years ago when the results were announced and could they remember what they were doing when result was announced.
    All could be recall exactly where they were and what they were doing but was astonished when one said they knew the result at 8pm before the count had taken place. This was told to them by the incredible and only psephologist Professor Curtice!

    Did not catch who the journalists were but was shocked this was said at all but went unchallenged and they quickly moved subject on. There were no exit polls or any polls allowed on the day so how was this information acquired without jiggerypokery.

  230. Foonurt says:

    Trawler-man beards, urr aull-bunnet.

    Duncy’s, iz blaun ower eez een.

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