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Cash in, cash out

Posted on September 19, 2018 by

We’ve got to admit, the Yorkshire chap makes a fair point.

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  1. 19 09 18 20:56

    Cash in, cash out | speymouth

144 to “Cash in, cash out”

  1. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    It’ll a’ cum oot in the wahsh…

  2. Clootie says:

    …I suspect they know that the verdict is going to go against Kezia…and the costs 🙂

  3. One_Scot says:

    Lol, given that she clearly does not understand the meaning of homophobia I’m surprised anyone is backing her.

  4. Lanarkist says:

    You’d make a good poker player….oh!

  5. Col says:

    Do you think that labour would somehow all of a sudden put any thought into how they spend other people’s money? Not something they’ve ever been guilty of doing is it?

  6. Davy says:

    So does this mean their will soon be a flat up for sale ?

    And I suppose its a change for the Labour sub’s in Scotland to actually be used in Scotland, instead of floating their way down south to fill London labour coffers.

  7. Achnababan says:

    How do we know the money comes from Labour subs? (find that hardly credible given their tiny membership). More likely source is Israel or the US of A!!

  8. Dr Jim says:

    Bit of a habit this with Kezia using other peoples money for her *principles*

    And such a lot of money, she could have bought a law practice with that amount of cash, who did she hire, the LA Law people off the telly? The Good Wife team? Ironside?

  9. Robert Peffers says:

    @Col says: 19 September, 2018 at 8:07 pm:

    ” … Do you think that labour would somehow all of a sudden put any thought into how they spend other people’s money? Not something they’ve ever been guilty of doing is it?”

    Not only that, Col, they have a recent record of what they can’t spend unwisely they sent back down to Westminster.

    The most unfortunate fact is that a lot of their cash comes from Trade Union Members who don’t know they have a legal right to withhold the political levy from the Labour Party.

  10. winifred mccartney says:

    Ms Dugdale makes a habit of going missing – absent for todays vote in Parliament – her labour pal SIU Nash was also missing in action on the first day back for Westminster, she lied about having flu despite being photographed the day before at a BAE event. KD blamed the trains – they did not go off until mid afternoon? And as for her TV appearance,she said that was for charity – that was mostly a lie since they got very little and she got the rest along with her salary.

  11. Robert Peffers says:

    O/T: Sorry it is early in the thread but I just came across this on YouTube.

    Do not watch with anything throwable within reach:-

  12. galamcennalath says:

    Why did Labour consider paying anything? First I’ve ever heard of a political party paying the legal costs of a member/politician. Rev Stu isn’t taking legal action against the Lab Party but a private individual.

    Any precedents? I don’t think Carmichael got LibDem money, did he?

    Ordinary members have every good reason to feel aggrieved.

  13. Ian McCubbin says:

    Karma has a sense of eventually catching up with cheats, chances and sociopaths.
    I don’t mean you Stuart. The other party fits at least one of the descriptions if not more.

  14. G H Graham says:

    Wasn’t there a program on the telly back in 2007 called “Beat the Bailiff”?

    Might be worth it to “Dizzy” Dugdale to register for the BBC iPlayer.

  15. Macart says:

    Oh Jings! That’ll leave a mark. 😮

  16. Ian Foulds says:

    Mr. Peffers at 8.37pm.

    Thanks for the advance warning.

    I wouldn’t insult an idiot by calling him that.


  17. ScottishPsyche says:

    Money must be no object when you aren’t paying for anything. She must be sure she will win. Kezia comes across as someone who has fallen on her feet most of her life. Maybe that is about to change.

    It does show when you take on one you take on the lot of them – Better Together, the unbreakable bond.

  18. Bob Mack says:

    Sounds as if Labour know the writing is on the wall,given the verdict to allow the case to proceed.

    Only Labour could pay for a company who submit a defence that is not applicable under Scots law. Dugdale is a lawyer herself I believe.

    I think they are bailing before the costs get higher for little return.

    Dugdale? Not a jot of sympathy for her I’m afraid.

  19. hackalumpoff says:

    Irish Veto ?

    Taoiseach: No progress in Brexit negotiations on Irish backstop.

    Mr Varadkar told reporters: “I don’t think we’re any closer to a withdrawal agreement than we were in March. So I can’t report any progress at this stage unfortunately, but we’ll keep working on it.”

  20. FiferAl says:

    Typical red Tory only interested in money for themselves – not really interested in constituents.

  21. Capella says:

    …the UK Labour Party wholeheartedly committed to paying all legal costs associated with this case from start to finish

    Looks like it was another Labour Party cunning plan. The comments on the article are worth reading too.

    Just got power back on after a long blackout but it did give me the chance to watch The Spider’s Web which others recommended in a previous thread. Scotland’s secret land ownership gets a mention, PFIs as well and the revolving door for politicians who aid and abet the corrupt City of London.
    Well worth a watch – 1 hr 18 mins:

  22. jfngw says:

    I often see some claiming what a coup it would be if Kezia Dugdale came out for independence. I have my doubts on this, not sure what she could personally add to the table. Her performance so far has not proved a winning formula, not even on a celebrity TV show.

    Back to the P1 vote, noticed toodiloo managed to slip in that manifesto policy (it was merely a microsecond comment) but that she had changed her mind. Not only her but all the Tories had somehow had this revelation at the same time. Suddenly they are all on the road to Damascus together!

  23. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    “Ms Dugdale’s spokesman said……It is very much hoped that all promises will be kept.”

    Dugdales legal team expect promises made by the British Nationalist Labour Party TO BE KEPT.


    Slow learners, or maybe they believe only promises made to BritNat Labours Ruling Elite are to be kept.

    Promises (and Vows) to the Electorate not so much.

    The lassie really is reaping the whirlwind.

  24. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    Forgot the link:

  25. ahundredthidiot says:

    Kez is like a spoiled wee brat who has always gotten her own way. zero life experience, zero principles, zero character and zero brains.

    Just a big fat zero. In fact, new nickname, Kezero.

  26. Marie Clark says:

    Oh dear, sounds as if the Labour party ain’t too convinced that she’s going to win this one are they. Bloomin cheek using their members money to defend this.

    I seem to remember that the Rev gave her about three opportunities to retract what she said and apologise. I guess she was just too pigheaded.

    Oh well, Karma’s a bitch, isn’t she.

  27. mike cassidy says:


    but this a serious WTF tweet from a train company.

  28. Simon Curran says:

    Unless my memory has deceived me wasn’t Kezia meant to be serving as an MSP at the time she was getting paid for being on I’m a d list celebrity

  29. jfngw says:

    Well the thought of the first appeal followed by a court case then possibly another appeal, at the current reported rate of spending they could be heading towards £500k potential costs. They are going to look pretty stupid if they lose, and the members are going to be curious why someone who received a substantial TV payout also needs to use so much of their subscriptions.

    If I was a fee paying member I would certainly wonder why I was financing a politicians private defence costs. This is not Labour business that is being prosecuted but a personnel comment in a paper which presumably also paying the contributor a fee.

  30. Neil Mackenzie says:

    If any third party could be expected to pick up the tab, I’d have thought it should be the enabling newspaper that originally gave broadcasting voice to her.

  31. Meg merrilees says:

    Play with fire and you get your fingers burnt…

    She will have to learn the hard way or offer to settle out of Court!

    Pride always comes before a fall…

    Robert Peffers slightly O/t

    Jings, I’ll say this much for Sarah Smith and John Mc Ternan they are fluent liars and ignorant folk will find them quite credible because of that but again, what a parcel of lies in one interview.

    Refreshing to hear an interview where there are challenging questions and a proper discussion of the surrounding issues but depressing to hear his lying answers. Why oh why don’t they get someone from the other side to balance the debate.

    Well spotted.

    Disgusting that WM is being so duplicitous ( is there such a word ) but I can’t see the current Irish border proposal gaining any credence.

  32. Meg merrilees says:

    If the Daily Record is prepared to pick up the ‘fee’ one wonders who is behind the Daly Wrecker?

  33. Donald anderson says:

    Not to mention the bank of Tame Unions.

  34. Donald anderson says:

    Not to mention the bank of Tame Union Bureaucrats.

  35. Gary45% says:

    They used to describe Journalism as “Literature in a hurry”
    Now its “Literature in a Slurry”
    I don’t expect any truth from the MSM on this story, it will be WoS Baaad, SNP Baaad.

    Your on the money there.

  36. The three British Nationalist parties in Holyrood will be/have been pouring over the Green party manifesto to see the policies the Greens have which differ from the SNP,

    no matter the policy the British Nationalists will vote with the Greens as political point scoring against the SNP,

    and in Ross Greer they have either a useful idiot or a complicit collaborator.

  37. ScottishPsyche says:

    This whole thing stinks though doesn’t it? The ganging up of The Record and Slab again to discredit Indy supporters and UK Lab thinking they can throw money at something to make it go away. Dugdale’s judgement is again called into question. There must come a time soon when that simpering wee girl voice says something she can’t back away from.

    A dozy directionless individual who wandered into Politics and didn’t ever seem that sincere even when making those impassioned scripted Holyrood rants. Yes, we know they were partly if not entirely written by a ‘worn out hack’.

    Remember when she and Jenny Marra were looked on as political heavyweights in the making, not just for SLab, but Westminster too? Based on what? They are hardly intellectual giants. It seems going out drinking with DR journos and indulging in nasty hearsay gets you far in the incestuous world of Scottish Politics. After her disingenuous dissembling when called out by Nicola Sturgeon she proclaimed she wouldn’t want to go for a drink with her because that is what is important in the tawdry world of Labour politics – being part of the clique.

    She might well survive this but her time in politics must be up soon.

  38. stonefree says:

    galamcennalath at 8:46 pm

    “I don’t think Carmichael got LibDem money, did he?”
    Carmichael not being a “wealth man” got the money from a part of the Joseph Rowantree Trust with is a Liberal Institution, although I’m unsure that it was within or outwith the Trusts remit.I believe the gifting was questioned but as usual.It didn’t go far

  39. yesindyref2 says:

    I think it’s very sad. She;s not a bad person, a bit naive, a bit misguided and a bit reactive. All she had to do was apologise, give a couple of thousand to charity, and move on.

    As it is perhaps she thinks her back is to the wall and she can’t retreat. Well, go forward then.

    Someone’s been giving her bad advice, and whoever they are, they’re no friend of hers.

  40. Dr Jim says:

    Sky press preview has the two clowns discussing Brexit and the Tory clown brings the SNP into the Irish border argument by saying that Sturgeon will want a special deal for Scotland and should stop banging on every day about Independence

    That got me to thinking about how often the FM has NOT been on our television screens in the last 8 to 10 months so how could she bang on every day when she’s NOT on the telly, but when you start to look back actually even though Ruth Davidson manages to hide from questioning she’s actually appeared on television both north and south of the border far more times than the actual First Minister of Scotland, and every time Miss Davidson’s been on TV she’s the one who keeps saying Nicola Sturgeon is banging on about Independence and she doesn’t want it, yet no *journalist* has ever said to Ruth Davidson it’s you who’s doing the banging not the FM

    Obviously Davidsons plan is to make people sick to death of hearing about referendums but at the same time she’s the one making people sick of listening to her saying it so that by the time the FM does mention the word referendum actually it might be very refreshing to hear somebody new saying it who can actually do something about it whereas Davidsons whole plan now rests on *please buy my book for my retirement fund or before I return to the BBC or at least feel sorry for me because I’m teetering on the verge of bonkers at any given moment and I’m with child as well oh and by the way I want to be First Minister*

    I watched some of todays debate and the orders were clear to the opposition keep it serious no grinning and look like we mean it but about 30 seconds into Murdo Frasers contribution Annie Wells who was seated behind him nearly broke her face trying to mask the glee she was experiencing

    I was also puzzled by Jenny Gilruths contribution because she delivered it like a professional Kezia Dugdale as if they’d worked on it together, then I realised Kezia claimed she was stuck in traffic in Glasgow and couldn’t make the debate on time

    Then I thought, well that doesn’t sound true at all…unless she’s a bit short of cash at the moment and is reticent to claim even more of other folks money and call it expenses

  41. Gary45% says:

    “Remember she and Jenny Marra were looked on as political heavyweights in the making”.
    To become a political unionist heavyweight in this sad union is to simply say over and over at any chance of media presence “SNP BAAAD.”
    Dugdale, Marra and the rest of the unionists.
    Political nobody’s.
    Tick Tock.

  42. Where is the Record getting the money to pay Dugdale’s bottomless legal bills?
    The Record/Sunday Mail is part of the Reach Group, which is in dire straits:-

    ” (Colin) Grigson faces similar challenges at Trinity Mirror. The publisher, the largest owner of regional newspapers in the UK, had a market capitalisation of more than £1bn when Bailey joined in 2002. It is now valued at just £80m and its share price is down 90% over the past decade to 32p.

    When Grigson’s predecessor Gibson took over the chairmanship in 2005 Trinity Mirror’s(now rebranded Reach) share price was 550p and the publisher owned 240 regional titles. It now owns about 140.

    A top priority for Grigson, aside from appointing Bailey’s replacement, is dealing with the company’s pension deficit, which ballooned to £172m in December and forced a financial restructure to cut payments. “Trinity Mirror is basically a massive pension problem that happens to have some newspapers attached to it,” said one City analyst.”

    So where is the money coming from?
    The pension pot?

    What makes Kezia Dugdale so special that Union funds and now a heavily indebted newspaper chain is prepared to underwrite her costs?

    Will any Branch Office Red Tory member get this strangely generous backing?

    Or is there a limitless pot of dosh from the Dark Money of the English Iron Heel Oligarchy to take WoS and Stu Campbell down?

    OT: Just noted the 61-63 Holyrood vote on P1 testing.

    Fuck off Patrick Harvie and the Greens. You are now propping up the Blue Red and Yellow Tories.
    I’d venture that you will be toast come any future election.

    You backed a party which is starving school children to an early death.
    Eternal shame on all of you.

  43. jfngw says:

    I see some, even independence supporting journalists, now muddying the waters about what the P1 vote was. It was nothing to do with moving the school starting age to seven. I’m sure if this is popular then a political party will pick it up and those that support it can vote for them.

    The vote was whether there should be a consistent way of measuring the abilities of children across Scotland rather than the haphazard system used currently by most local authorities.

    They also also go on about other countries not starting till seven, but I suspect didn’t check if any assessment is made prior to starting school. I cannot imagine that they have no knowledge of the children’s abilities until they are seven, it may be a bit late for those requiring assistance by then.

    The BBC have led people to believe that testing of P1 pupils would be ‘scrapped’ if only the SNP would comply. It is the normal fake news from the BBC, the test will not be scrapped but either continue using the consistent method or go back to the pig in a poke system as before. The ‘is it fact or did you hear it on the BBC’ has never been more apt.

  44. Arbroath1320 says:

    I really thought you had to be … well .. erm … sort of INTELLIGENT to be a politician.

    We all know oor Stu is not a stranger to the court processes with regards to taking law suits to court. As far as I can recall he has won every case he has taken to court so far. Surely THIS court record must have set off alarm bells in the KD defence office! If it didn’t then why not they have, in my view, cost their client £25,000 and no doubt all legal costs as well.

  45. Still Positive says:

    My oldest son will be 47 in January. He and his 3 younger brothers, all born in Glasgow, were assessed at birth, 6 weeks, 6 months, 9 months and 1 year and every year until they started school.

    I am pretty sure they were assessed informally in school in their first year especially as nursery education was sparse then.

    The opposition parties should hang their heads in shame although I won’t be holding my breath in that happening.

  46. Still Positive says:

    Should have added that youngest son (38 next February) has a son just started in P1. Son no. 3 has a daughter in P2 – don’t know if she had assessments last year and what they think of it. Will find out in due course and report back.

  47. Arbroath1320 says:

    On the P1 vote in Holyrood …

    I’m guessing the Colonel of Cowardice has not yet received the pigeon post from Feartie regarding P1 “testing” in England then.

  48. Cactus says:

    SO when’s yer autobiography a comin’ out a Jungle Kezia?

    More ka-ching required eh JK, ain’t it a drag:

    From the Dark Side Money of the Yoon.

    Tell ye what JK, if ye get behind independence and make a public statement of such intention at Holyrood @fmqs today, ye can come and join us for the AUOB in Edinburgh, two weeks on Saturday.

    Don’t forget to bring yer flag. 😉

  49. twathater says:

    @ RP 8.37pm thanks for the link Robert , mcternan follows the usual britnat ability of lying without any fear of retribution , the man has FAILURE after FAILURE yet still manages to believe his delusions , there is something seriously wrong with his character , and the characters who enable him to spout his verbal excrement , or bovine waste

  50. yesindyref2 says:

    I love this tweet on the derived McWhirter thread:

    My 4 year old was tested. She was sat in a strange room and got asked tricky questions for 20 minutes. Got some questions right, some wrong. Wasn’t stressed in the slightest. The result was she needed glasses.


    I’m against the idea of testing P1 kids, they’re still babies basically, but I’m not against assessments, these are clearly neccessary to see what needs to be done. And some sort of standardisation would appear to be a GOOD IDEA.

    What the opposition politicians including Greens don’t seem to care in the slightest about, is what constitutes a test, and what an assessment, and what is actually in place or intended to be.

    In other words, the opposition is bloody useless in doing its job of holding the Government to account – as is most of the media.

    The kids deserve better than the whole effing lot of them.

  51. Liam says:

    yesindyref2 said:
    19 September, 2018 at 11:52 pm

    I think it’s very sad. She;s not a bad person, a bit naive, a bit misguided and a bit reactive. All she had to do was apologise, give a couple of thousand to charity, and move on.
    Someone’s been giving her bad advice, and whoever they are, they’re no friend of hers.

    That pretty much says the way I feel too. I suspect too that she has this idea that she has to be ‘Tough’ and ‘Hard’ to make her way in politics when – though that may be true to an extent – there are a lot of people out here who would like less of the political testosterone, posing and pissing competitions and a little more compassion, understanding, and problem solving. The sort of thing the feminist movement of the 1980s and beyond held out as a hope if there were more women in power. Ah well… Personally I blame Thatcher

    Mind you, that has been my default position on anything for the past 30 years.

  52. twathater says:

    With regard to Kezia , I don’t feel sorry for her or her stupidity , what she done was a DELIBERATE ATTEMPT to SMEAR , ostracise and target Stuart , the readers of his blog , and Nicola and the SNP by flying a false kite

    The people who I feel sorry for are the ones who are suffering the ravages of the tories austerity policies , who were supported by the faux socialist liebour scum by abstaining and voting with them

    Let’s remember the 13 tory wasters were HELPED to election by Kezia’s advice of vote anyone to keep SNP out

  53. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Whatever the personal journey that led Kezia to this current sorry pass, whether calculated BritNat smear or simply “losing the plot” when already under pressure from her own party backstabbers (or a bit of both), it’s worth remembering that she was merely the latest failure from a long line of failures to lead NorthBritLab out of their own self-imposed wilderness.

    She won’t be the last either, until the majority of them, plus their Labourite promoters in the media, either wake up and respond to the urgent need for a whole fresh direction over independence, or drive themselves into ever-greater nihilistic irrelevance and consequent total extinction.

    Their call. =shrugs=

  54. Nana says:

    Car hits pedestrians outside mosque after passengers ‘hurled anti-Islamic abuse’

    Coffee chain Starbucks made £372million in revenues in the UK, according to its latest set of accounts, but paid just £3.3million in corporation tax.

    Reminder from earlier this year

  55. Petra says:

    Kezia: I wonder too why the Labour Party has been bankrolling this case? Is that the norm? And now the failing Daily Rag. Who’s behind it all? As to Kezia herself it’s a case of you reap what you sow. Over and above what Rev’s had to put up with, I don’t forget her besmirching Holyrood and Nicola Sturgeon by trying to drag her into this or her advice to Labour supporters to vote for the Tories to oust SNP politicians, etc, etc.

    P1 Tests: Iain Mhor has posted (2 posts) interesting, informative data at the tail end of the last thread (sorry can’t copy / paste) that should clarify what’s going on here….. such as EIS amendments. The data is at odds with the news (lying?) that reiterates constantly that the EIS and Holyrood parties, other than the SNP, want the assessments to be abolished altogether.

    I’m a great advocate of young children learning through play but wonder why Upstart has got involved in such a way? And have they made it clear to parents that assessments are nothing new for five year olds (and younger)? If children have been getting upset to my mind that’s down to the teachers approach, not the format of the assessment.

  56. Nana says:

    Mr Malky’s been digging

    Mr Malky asks the Electoral commission “Can you tell me what happens to the very small amounts of money you collect in fines? Where does it go?”

    So the guy that funnels the #DarkMoney for the Tories is an ex Scottish Rugby Player/Financial Adviser called Brian Gossman “close friend” and personal financial adviser to David Mundell

    A Bryan Gossman was charged with x 2004 Trial seems to have taken place in Scotland 2005 Alleged crime seems to have taken place in NI 2004

    Smackdown -Maree Todd v Oly Mundell

  57. ScottieDog says:

    Talking to my sister who is a teacher she’s never actually mentioned p1 testing. When the frustrations of the job come up that’s not one that surfaces. What does surface is the workload and the expectations on teachers that comes with the curriculum for excellence.

    For me C of E is a great concept but there has to be the resources to back it up. I did laugh when she told me they had to make a model of an energy efficient home. My sister called me for advice as we had made some improvements to our pad and are very much into renewables. Obviously it required a lot of research on her part which required a huge amount of her own time and some of her own money.

    C of E is great. I’m a fan but there doesnt seem to be the resources for it.

    The greens favour the finish example. I think that’s great too, but how do we pay for it in a country which doesn’t issue or its own currency or borrow? Do we keep taxing more and more? That over time becomes an own goal and the abhorrent westimjnster parties in holyrood know that.

    It goes back to the problem of sovereignty I’m afraid.

    Yes, P1 testing has been used a political vehicle but NOT by the greens. I’m in the SNP and recognise that this has been opposed by Harvie from the get-go. All this crap about not giving the greens your second vote I just find bizarre.

    The SNP were accused of making Scotland a one party state. Recent events should prove that to be rubbish. The problem here is the media’s failure to call out the tories, simply because the media ARE the tories.

    I will continue to give the greens my support because I value independence. That’s the only way to adequately finance a good education system.

  58. Phronesis says:

    ‘the nations and regions of the UK are diverging’ -indeed they are.
    The WM model- Thatcher’s legacy- isn’t working anymore except for those who can exploit the political process.
    The wee country of Scotland is doing great things with its pocket money but the divergence between Scotland and WM is as wide as the Grand Canyon ideologically.Parting company over all policy areas will be a natural separation.

    ‘The report argues that a fair economy is a strong economy: prosperity and justice can, and must, go hand-in-hand. But it is not sufficient to seek to redress injustices and inequalities simply by redistribution. They need to be tackled at source, in the structures of the economy in which they arise. Economic justice needs to be ‘hard-wired’ into the way the economy works…

    Prosperity and Justice argues that the economy is not working for millions of people and needs fundamental reform. Average earnings have stagnated for more than a decade; young people are set to be poorer than their parents; the nations and regions of the UK are diverging further. Many of the causes of the UK’s poor economic performance – particularly its weaknesses in productivity, investment and trade – go back 30 years or more’

  59. Jim says:

    O.T but I see now what they are doing with their wee vote against assessment of P1 even though it is something the English parties in Scotland support which is; Does the Scottish Government support the will of the Scottish Parliament or will they carry on with the standardised assessment of P1.

    For shame, the Unionist trap has been placed at the expense of our children, scum, each and every one of them.

  60. Tackety Beets says:

    Irish Senator Mark Daily on GMS , telling it as it is.

    “UK Brexit Ministers don’t understand the problems so it’s impossible for them to find solutions”
    Confirms what we have been seeing unfold.

    If you are going to listen it is on circa 8.10 am

    What a slap in face for WM.

  61. Breeks says:

    Jim says:
    20 September, 2018 at 8:02 am
    O.T but I see now what they are doing with their wee vote against assessment of P1…

    For shame, the Unionist trap has been placed at the expense of our children, scum, each and every one of them…

    No, no, no, Jim. Don’t worry. The SNP anticipated this and has this eventuality covered. It’s all going according to plan. They will play “let’s just wait and see” for four years, and everything will work out splendidly. It’s a proven formula… apparently. Don’t let the declining support fool you, it’s all part of the cunning plan that’s top secret but foolproof. Ssssh! Keep it under your hat.

  62. Petra says:

    Thanks for the links, Nana. Hope your hospital visit went well X




    An excellent video on currency from Dr Craig Dalzell – own currency from day one. Having our own Central Bank is crucial, it would seem but how long does that take to set up? No doubt covered in the Common Weal report which I’ll have to find the time to take a look at unless anyone on here can clarify?


    The Tories raised the salary threshold for non-EU immigrants to £55,000 in December!

  63. Robert Peffers says:

    @Robert J. Sutherland says: 20 September, 2018 at 7:10 am:

    ” … it’s worth remembering that she was merely the latest failure from a long line of failures to lead NorthBritLab out of their own self-imposed wilderness.”

    And to see the truth of where they are heading you only need to look at the photo of the recent, “crowded conference hall”, of the Scottish LibDems. You could actually count them.

    If that’s their party they are very much a fringe party and the Scottish Labour party are rapidly headed down the same road to obscurity.

    The truth is that they are all in the same political party. The Scottish branch of the Westminster Establishment. They are not multi-coloured Tories they are died in the wool unionists.

  64. Golfnut says:

    @ Phronesis.
    The SNP also opposed P1 testing, but we are not talking about testing, we are talking about assessment. The Greens have allowed themselves to used, politics Britnat style.

  65. Tackety Beets says:

    EC brought up earlier.

    For those who missed it.

    Check out Jo Maugham QC , @ JolyonMaugham on Twitter he has been challenging the EC on a number of issues, and is now chasing the EC to expose dark money/ DUP

    He claims the EC is failing in its duty ……… Ha Ha

    Previous court win over EC

  66. Jim says:



  67. Petra says:

    Nana (7:41am) what a find!

    Tory Dirty money fines making their way back to the Tories, win, win situation, Bryan Gossman … dirty money – alleged r*pist (we’ll need to find out more about that or maybe SiU are looking into it?) and friend and FINANCIAL advisor to Mundell Snr.

    Maybe the BBC will get their investigative reporters onto this?! Delve in by proffering one of their many Freedom of Information requests or is that only utilised when they want to search for ‘dirt’ on SNP politicians?

  68. Golfnut says:

    @ Phronesis.

    Apology to Phronesis, it was Scottiedug I was responding to.

  69. ronnie anderson says:

    Robert Peffers We all know Mc Ternan’s ah lier , south london wanted ah border way back .

  70. Dr Jim says:

    Birds of a feather?

    The Tories have got a Brexit ally, it’s the Hungarian far right *populist* party and we know what *populist* means these days
    it’s the new shiny word for what we had in the 1930s

  71. McBoxheid says:

    Robert Peffers says:
    19 September, 2018 at 8:37 pm

    O/T: Sorry it is early in the thread but I just came across this on YouTube.

    Do not watch with anything throwable within reach:-
    He certainly looked uncomfortable squirming and shoulder ticking his way through that interview, which was pretty soft on him. He prefers an audience without the right to question the rubbish he spouts.

  72. galamcennalath says:

    Electoral Commission’s fines are a very bad joke at the electorate’s expense!

    If someone stole something out of a shop worth £100, was caught and fined £5 for the offence, what is likely to happen next?

    EC’s fines for illegal donations are an open invitation to break any rules. The fine MUST be greater than the benefit!

  73. Muscleguy says:

    @Dr Jim
    Since in office she seemed to be a principle free zone I expect being forced to confront one is rather discombobulating.

  74. Capella says:

    Re P1 assessments – why is the Scottish Parliament debating and voting on internal operational matters of a public service. Is it now policy to not assess children?

    What next – a debate on the correct constituents of tar for road mending, a debate on timetabling for trains, which medical procedures can be carried out in any given condition?

    The Tories drum up false outrage over a process they themselves advocated, and persuade the gullible unionist parties to join in, incuding the Greens. Well it does give them an opportunity to parade their ignorance and political opportunism.

    I see John Swinney is “defiant” (Herald) and has instructed schools to carry on with the asessments. Good for him.
    The rest of us can endorse the public service outcomes at the ballot box.

  75. Clootie says:

    Sun Tzu in the Art of War was clear that “…the enemy of my friend is my enemy”. In summary don’t give support to a common foe. Recognise who the real enemy is. Remember the primary objective.

    Our War is to achieve Independence and once again the Greens stuck the knife in to a fellow traveller. I appreciate the views and arguements so over P1 testing but the Greens pressed those voting buttons in the full knowledge that it was a Tory led unionist SNPbad motivated political effort and not a act of principal.

    Once again the big picture evades the Greens in their drive to be different ( being different appears to be another protest group in a unionist run Scotland)

    The wedge between the Greens and the SNP was driven a little deeper by this vote and the unionists will continue to hammer at the wedge now. The unionist divide and rule has once again emerged and as always it is a buch of Scots preening themselves who enabled it.

    The Greens focus on the little things will cost us the big prize. The real future for our kids will be determined by Independence and not a one hour assessment ONCE when they were in P1.

  76. Famous15 says:

    Methinks the SNP are over generous to the Greens and this is not reciprocated.

    The Coul Links project was called in when the Green MSP complained even though the vast majority of local Sutherland people supported it and many are SNP supporters. This is not a Trump Menie project!

    There are no scientific problems at the back of Embo .Are we to see once again sheep and flies are more important than sustaining the Highland population especially their children.

    A swift response to Greens’ selfishness would be the passing of this project. Beware of another Highland Clearance.

  77. Petra says:

    Thanks for the link, Arbroath 1320.

    Tories implementing P1 tests (assessments) in England now – copy cats!

    Waiting on the BBC asking Ruth Davidson why she’s done a U-turn (another one) on P1 assessments, especially when her Big T Boss May is introducing them in England. Trying to hold Scottish kids back in conjunction with discrediting the SNP?

  78. Petra says:

    @ Breeks at 8:25am ….

    Your posts are becoming more and more (SNP) ridiculous to the point that I wonder if you actually support Independence at all.

  79. Nana says:

    For anyone interested in today’s summit keep an eye on this twitter account

    EU Committee calls on Government to put forward alternative plans on #customs arrangements with the EU in its new report #Brexit: the customs challenge:

    Timing of this could not be worse. It is doing the rounds in all the EU delegations. Expect France, Barnier etc to raise it later

  80. Bob Mack says:

    We omly assess Primary 1 children in Scotland,we don’t test them or deprive them of school dinners as elsewhere.

    Which is the worst?

  81. Capella says:

    @ Petra @Arbroath 1320 – that tweet deserves wide circulation! Surely an emergency debate at Westminster will be called to force the Tories to abandon P1 assessments?

  82. Nana says:

    Check out Orban kissing May’s hand, yuck!

    Scroll down for footage of arrivals at Saltburg and snippets of interviews.

  83. Fred says:

    Methinks Kezia’s in the cream-puff having made no strenuous attempt to get to Holyrood for the vote, knowing it would be close.

    There’s Tory Scum, nothing new there! Slab Scum, Lib Dem Scum & worst of all is the Green Scum. A good clean oot with Domestos needed!

  84. Liz g says:

    Scottie Dog @ 7.50
    I think the problem here is ..
    When viewed through the prism of Independence/Sovereignty/the Constution, which as you said yourself it always comes back to.
    Yesterday’s vote opens up the Scottish Government, to the accusation that it is not respecting the Scottish Parliaments Will.
    The very thing on which the argument for preventing Westminster from overruling us on the Withdrawal Bill, the Returning Powers etc rests !

    This is being set up so that the British Nationalists can claim that the Scottish Government itself doesn’t respect the will of the Scottish Parliament.
    Now I know and you know that is not an answer to why Westminster is not respecting the Scottish Parliament, but that’s the answer that we will get!

    Or the Scottish Government do implement the will of the Scottish Parliament at the expense of our very youngest kids… which will then make it open season on the U turn, flip flop, failed policy accusations.
    That’s why this was a political move and only a political move, and why people are angry with the Greens and are saying that they should be looking at the big picture.

    Especially since no children are actually being harmed and any evidence to the contrary is purely hearsay.
    Commnsense tells us that no teacher wants a crying 4/5 year on their hands!
    And that 4/5 year olds cry for many reasons, some are just predisposed to it.
    The nonsense spouted about this in that debate yesterday made it obvious that this was fake concern to advance a political move.
    All the MSPs who uses the tears of a child to point score and destroy a fledgling methodology that is trying to improve those children’s life chances should be ashamed.
    There was no emergency here, if a problem with the system was indeed a concern then it was suggestions of solutions that should have been getting discussed!

  85. Dr Jim says:

    Nigel Farage to Adam Boulton on Sky news just now said
    “I believe in Independence and you can’t put a price on it”

    Prior to that he praised Norway for being so rich and happy

    All that sounds lovely doesn’t it, he’s on our side then isn’t he, well no he’s not because all that lovely Independence of which Nigel speaks is all predicated on Englands ownership of Scotland and all the assets contained therein without which England is a virtual economic dustbowl

    Apparently in Ireland they’re oiling their guns in preparation for filling any new signeage on their borders with holes as a wee reminder that If you try it we’ll put holes in other things

    It’s all going rather well

  86. Bob Mack says:

    Anyone interested in primary child assessment should look up the Aberdeen children of the 50,’s report.

    Children were regularly tested at 7,9 and 11 years of age. The important thing was that social economic influences accurately predicted those children who would be lower in IQ than others. It is about then focusing more resources to those children at an earlier stage of development in that cohort.

    The earlier you can detect potential issues for an individual,the better it is to help the child cope with these factors which will undoubtedly and verifiably affect their ability to receive and process information.

  87. Clootie says:

    I note some are defending the Greens again.

    A Party which aligned with Scottish Independence would have had private meetings and discussions rather than a public posture.

    They could have achieved a review and report by support of the government. This was about headlines for party politics and little different from the Tories motivation.

    If you support Independence then unity comes first!

  88. Dorothy Devine says:

    Dr Jim , I’d like England to be independent and I wish the English would too.

  89. Dr Jim says:

    Now it appears the people of England are demanding a vote to decide whether Scotland gets a vote on Independence

    Y’see that’s the kind of arrogance I want to see much more of from England so any doubters in Scotland can take in exactly what that country full of Empire driven ill educated village idiots actually believe

    A country that invents television programmes like Big Brother Love Island Jeremy Kyle Gogglebloody box and Don’t tell the Bride to entertain it’s population definitely isn’t aiming at the high IQ category

    Nae wonder ah drink!

  90. Nana says:

    Growing Crisis is a 26 minute independent documentary on British Farming, filmed in Herefordshire in 2018, covering topics from global trade, to local employment, and the impact of a no deal Brexit.

    That’s all for today.

    Petra 8.38am

    Hospital visit went ok.

    I always look for the opportunity to spread the Indy message and waiting rooms can be a good place for that.

    Easy to start a conversation with “aren’t we lucky to have such a terrific health service in Scotland?
    Take it from there and throw in Westminster privatisation, Brexit/Trump NHS takeover, you know the rest.

    I always finish with thank goodness we have the SNP here, if not the unionist parties would sell it off quick as a flash.

    All said casually like 🙂

  91. Dr Jim says:

    @Dorothy Devine 10.45am

    I agree Dorothy, England should have whatever it votes for and that should be their decision and I for one wouldn’t utter a stutter about it, though I’d still feel sorry for the Welsh they have no escape or choice whereas Scotland and Northern Ireland do

    Unfortunately for English people their political parties represent themselves and it leaves those people with 2 choices, bad or really bad but never change because it’s not in the economic interests of London money to allow actual democracy

  92. Robert Louis says:

    Stunts such as the P1 baloney, perpetrated by the Tories and their Labour and GREEN lapdugs, is not in my opinion meant to achieve anything. It is not meant to damage the Scot gov. Nobody outside of politics really cares – or knows. No, it is to distract them. take up all their time, keep them overly busy, so they cannot even stop to think of independence.

    As for the greens, well, they have now shown how a pro indy vote is wasted on them. They will regret losing pro indy support. As with the other jokers in the Scottish parliament, vote anything but SNP, and you get TORY.

    Greens far too keen to jump into bed with Tories in matters such as this. Not sure what they represent anymore – their own careers by the look of things.

  93. Iain mhor says:

    @Petra 7:41
    Good links there.
    Together they pretty much sums up the problem.
    Attempting to fight 2 battles on 1 issue.
    The issue before the Government and schools is that assessments are required, but the format perhaps needs reviewed. This is being conflated with the ideology that formal Primary schooling should not begin until 7yr old and should follow the ‘Early years’ or Kindergarden format until then.
    Those are seperate issues; the latter requires a complete restructuring of the Primary and Early Years schooling system in Scotland. The Scottish government placed the assessments within the framework of the school structure as it is, not what it might be.

    So eg: Upstart are arguing the assessments are not fit for purpose within a Kindergarten model (which is not in place) and should be rescinded entirely – the EIS are looking to modify the asessments for a model which is in place, but retains elements of ‘Early Years’ or kindergarten mode (with a view to trying to introduce that model at a future point?)

    So the waters are muddied. The EIS have much to answer for in this by enabling lobbying groups such as Upstart (well named) to force the agenda. Either the EIS and its members want a Kindergarten model or not; If so they should be lobbying this and presenting it as their manifesto and seeking that support commitment from government or other parties. They should not be attempting to place a foot in both camps. Their credibility as an official body informing government policy is badly reflected in this. I don’t wonder the Government have made their own decision when they realised someone else was grinding the organ.

    I’d like to add my view, that I have great respect for the ‘Early Years’ model in Scotland and could possibly be convinced of its expansion, but that is not what we have. Nor has any political party, to my knowledge, included such a model in its manifesto at any time for my consideration.
    To attempt to achieve this by proxy, just for political point scoring, is reprehensible.

  94. Robert Louis says:

    If the English really want brexit, then that is what they should do. But they should leave Scotland in peace. It is nothing short of arrogant colonialism, that England thinks it has the right to forcibly remove Scotland and N.Ireland from the EU against their wishes.

    They deserve NO respect from anybody for this despicable anti democratic behaviour AGAINST Scotland.

    Brexit is economic stupidity on stilts.

    However, the question does need asked, JUST WHY are the EU so complacent and seemingly happy to let England force Scotland and its people out of the EU. The UK is NOT a single country, rather a union of countries and territories. Forcing Scotland out of the EU, is like Germany leaving the EU and forcing france to leave too – they are both in a ‘union’, so why the difference??

    I actually expected better of the EU, but now it sounds like they are complicit in making underhanded deals, which EXCLUDE Scotland.

  95. stu mac says:

    @Nana says:
    20 September, 2018 at 7:27 am

    That’s interesting. I see the National fell for that too. Punters going by headlines is one thing but reporters should be looking at the actual motion, just as indyref2 did.

  96. galamcennalath says:

    Robert Louis says:

    I actually expected better of the EU

    I didn’t. A bit of wishful expectation maybe, but deep down I expect them to treat the internal issues of the member state as a no go area.

    With Ireland it is the border which is the issue. The EU has made clear that if that means an internal customs border for the UK, then that’s a UK problem.

    I am hopeful however the EU will take a different stance once the UK is no longer a member state. They have interfered in neighbour non members before now.

    If Scotland votes for independence with the intention of being close to the EU, I still hope they will be sympathetic.

  97. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    The vote on Primary 1 assessments (like the vote on the Offensive Behaviour legislation) indicates the frequently poisoned chalice governing a devolved administration can be for a party seeking independence.

    It is very dangerous to conflate the case for independence with the record of any Scottish devolved government. They are separate issues but even some of our supporters confuse the two.

    A (unlikely) Tory Government in Scotland would be praised and used as a case for the benefits of devolution. A devolved labour Government would be used to describe how unable the Scots are to run themselves.

    Our opponents know this only too well which is why this SNP Scottish government will never get any media praise no matter how well it does in any area.

    Any notion that we will win independence by governing a devolved Scotland well is fallacious (though it is absolutely essential in the present circumstances that we do govern Scotland as well as is possible).

    We will win independence when we remind the people of Scotland that we are just as able as any other of the 200 independent nations in the world and that we are economically self supporting. That is the key and that is all.

  98. ronnie anderson says:

    Ah know yous know chist ah wee reminder Holyrood parliament tv , any Topic up for debate today will defiantly contain Nuts .

  99. Andy-B says:

    That just about sums Dugdale up, all mouth and no substance, as is Labour.

  100. Vestas says:

    Amusing to see some of you waking up to the fact the EC is a quango run by the Brit state (they appoint the boss) 🙂

    However larger fines are unlikely to help as the Brit govt gets the money – it goes into a general holding fund run by HM treasury, just like the TV tax.

    You need to start accepting that “democracy” has never really existed in the Brit state – its more of an elected dictatorship where the dictator determines the “guidelines” the EC run on.

    Dirty money (and keeping it) is after all what “Brexit” is all about so no surprise there’s vast quantities of “dark money” sloshing around the BritNat parties.

  101. Daisy Walker says:

    Very disappointed that people are criticising the Electoral Commission for ‘only’ imposing a £400 fine for the dark money.

    Clearly that’s not all they will have done, your forgetting they will have insisted that they go to bed early every night, have to do all the dishes, and don’t get to play with their iPads for a week.

    tRuthless hasn’t been hiding, she’s been on the naughty step.


  102. Col says:

    Robert, it is only a union by name. We are nothing more than a colony of England. They take all of our money, keeping secret what we actually contribute and they tell us what we can and can’t watch on TV. We fight their wars for them, if we get what we vote for it is merely a fluke. It’s high time people were educated to the reality of our suppression by our neighbour. Calling it a union is playing right into their hands.

  103. Robert Peffers says:


    While cleaning up notes and cites to video clips in a folder on my computer I came across this 3 year old clip I had intended to post but for some now unknown reason had never posted the link.

    It is quite long but it does show how much of the World at large outside either the United Kingdom and the European Union look on things with great interest and an insight totally lacking in the United Kingdom, European and USA media.

    This guy gets everything right on the nail:-

  104. Macart says:


    Good selection this morning Nana and glad to hear the hospital visit went ok.

  105. Breeks says:

    Petra says:
    20 September, 2018 at 9:50 am
    @ Breeks at 8:25am ….

    Your posts are becoming more and more (SNP) ridiculous to the point that I wonder if you actually support Independence at all.

    No, what’s ridiculous is defending Scotland’s Sovereignty and place as an EU Member Nation by doing NOTHING while our opportunity is destroyed, except chuntering from the sidelines how beastly the Tories are, and how feckless the Labour Party is.

    The Tories were RIGHT to claim victory in the 2017 General Election, because they took the strategic Generalship of Alex Salmond out of commission, and oh how grievous a loss that was. THEY knew it.

    I have never heard of any political ambition anywhere being served by disengaging from your own support to leave them in the dark. That means here in Scotland leaving AUOB, all our bloggers, our Indie Indy Broadcasters and our merchandisers to carry the flag for Independence and keep Independence at the forefront of people’s minds while our “radical” elected Government strives to keep it OFF the agenda, and make itself an enigma, which seems profoundly and unbelievably Constitutionally illiterate, thinking it can set aside the sovereign will of the people which chose to remain in Europe, and pursue instead its own forlorn strategy to advocate a soft Brexit option of maintaining access to the Single Market.

    Just remind yourself what we had going for us the day after we lost in 2014, from the BBC’s biased corruption on the rails, (go watch London Calling again), to unprecedented levels of political engagement in Scotland’s hardest to reach housing schemes, a YES phenomenon which totally commanded the narrative online. We lost, apparently, but their victory was short lived because their lies, propaganda, and promises were exposed and fell apart and we reeled at the betrayal. Our country was conned. They cheated us. But nevermind, Brexit came along and the voters of Scotland delivered a definitive Constitutional watershed where the sovereign, democratic will of Scotland lay diametrically opposed to the sovereign will of England, and Scotland had a cast iron anvil upon which to break the back of the Union. Yes! Scotland was STRONG.

    We built that! The people of Scotland did that! By what right did the SNP see fit to idle away four years and squander it all? In the following four years, there’s been no retribution sought for our disgraceful betrayal. Fragile Political alliances have been dropped or neglected, YES has been left to its own devices with flag distributors unsure whether its IndyRef flags to print, YES flags, Yes flags with EU stars or without them… Influencial commentators like Prof John Robertson, Craig Murray, Peter Bell, G A Ponsonby are cut adrift the moment they express considered dissent about SNP “wait and see” timidity. But no. If it’s criticism of the SNP, it’s dismissed as “SNPBad” which plays into the hands of the BritNats. It’s feckn pathetic, and mightily tiresome.

    I am fecking sick of it. These days I do have more in common with those who just want this bollocks catastrophe of Brexit done with. If Scotland gets lucky, then maybe the Gods will smile and Scottish Independence will somehow squirt out the maelstrom. I’m done. Let the SNP get the soft Brexit they’re pitching, but be warned there’s absolutely no joy in that for me. And if we fail to break free of this cursed Union, then at least next time around I cannot believe we will ever again be held hostage by the timidity of our own leadership, but I hope, be guided by those patriots who at least understand our Constitutional strengths and legitimacy.

    That’s ridiculous is it Petra? Well enjoy your ridicule, then stick your head back in the sand. It seems it’s all we’re collectively good for these days anyway.

  106. Bzzzz says:

    Maybe Kezia should ask Ruth Davidson to explain what “homophobia” means, her pals in the DUP are experts I hear…

  107. Thepnr says:

    So Theresa May had a one to one meeting with Irish Taoiseach Leo Varadkar in Salzburg this morning. She admits to him

    “that she does not believe it is possible that a deal on the Irish backstop can be reached in time for the October European Council”

    If that is the case then what might change before the “final” date given as November 15th at an hastily arranged emergency summit just 4 weeks later make?

    Might be a case of who will blink first and more than likely no one will and we could have a “final final” date at the last summit for this year in December.

    It’s a total sham, all this nail biting stuff is to keep people on tenterhooks, get them all worked up about heading for a No Deal until at the last minute May can emerge victorious with “The Deal” being waved as she steps onto the Tarmac at Heathrow.

    One problem though it then starts all over again as she tries to get the approval of Parliament and this just won’t happen unless the pro remain Tories are cowed into supporting the deal rather than risk a No Deal Brexit.

    Anybody think that the Tories have played a blinder over this? Hahaha sorry, daft question 🙂

  108. Robert Peffers says:

    @Dave McEwan Hill says: 20 September, 2018 at 11:40 am:

    Utter claptrap, and demonstratively so. While the SNP/SG will never get media praise for good government the people that really matter, the average person in Scotland with the franchise, are well aware of the truth.

    The mere idea that indy voters should placate them is idiotic. Doing so only exhibits the Scottish Cringe and spurs the unionists on and what’s more will never make a unionist vote for Scottish independence.

  109. Petra says:

    @ Nana says at 11:39 am …. ”Just saw this ?

    Great Nana. Another online site doing the BBC’s work for them. No wonder people are avoiding them like the plague now along with the newspaper industry (except for the National). And no wonder they want to, in turn, shut all these sites down. Shows them up for what they are – the Dictatorial State’s mouthpiece – and they’ve got the cheek to complain about RT. Would make you laugh.


    Nana like you I use every opportunity available to get the truth across and isn’t it great when you start talking to someone (or a group) in a public place and someone turns around and starts throwing even more pro-Indy data into the mix. Just makes my day and I always make a point of asking them if they visit Wings. Most say yes they do (smiley).


    @ Iain at 11:21 am … ”P1 Assessments.”

    It’s an absolute disgrace that campaign group Upstart have sent out 30,000 postcards outlining their aversion to P1 assessments and asking parents to sign and send on to Heads of School. I wonder where they get the money from?

    Worse still the EIS is supporting this!

    As you say Iain, Upstart supports learning through play until age 7 year but until the curriculum is changed in Scotland they should butt out. I’ve also got my suspicions about the EIS Flanagan brothers, General Secretary Larry (militant Labour) and his brother Pat by his side ruling the roost. Another Union (Heads of) in Scotland that support the Labour Party, which in turn supports the Union.

    To be honest I don’t know how people like Nicola Sturgeon and John Swinney can put up with all of this; everyone and their granny against them and all working together hand in hand. The constant ”concerted” effort. I’m sure it must be having an impact on their health.

    That leads me to wondering how anyone on here could think for one minute that the SNP politicians at Holyrood are deliberately dragging all of this out … delaying Independence. Bl**dy ludicrous to say the least.

  110. Bob Mack says:

    We are not yet in the position of power. Polls indicate we are very close,but that is not good enough. It wins nothing.

    This is not about the SNP or any other party. Our independence does not belong to politicians. It is us, the people who will win it. We walk, we talk,we canvass, we demonstrate. Only when we have enough numbers to win do we try again. If we go too early and lose,then independence will be dead for decades to come.

    Your frustration arises because indy can’t come soon enough, but as in all things there is an optimum time to try.

    I find it difficult to comprehend otherwise, because I know if we go too soon and UK gets a deal, then that affects everything.

    Timing, circumstances and events ,all outwith our control will decide independence. We contribute to the daily grind and the spreading of hope for a better way in future.

    Despondency kills hope, and hope is the heartbeat of the indy movement. Pick yourself up. You and not any political party are the flagbearers of an independent Scotland.

    No war was ever won by a politician of any hue. It was won by those actually fighting in the trenches and enduring the suffering and heartbreak along the way.

  111. Daisy Walker says:

    Re Brexshit and Bad, some thoughts…

    Poor old England, hasn’t woken up.

    We know that the Labour party is a WM Establishment gig, the Lib Dems are mini-me tories and the tories the pantomime villains.

    The poor old voters in England still think there is a difference.

    The Peoples Vote has New Labours paw prints all over it. I saw Mandelson’s name in the mix somewhere (sorry can’t find the link now).

    In the next six months, the grass roots of England are going to get very busy, very active and no doubt very creative, campaigning for a Peoples Vote…. a vote for what? EEA, EFTA, Canada++, Norway model?

    A sophisticated triangulation which appears to give people a choice, but burns up time. With the added bonus that it can be used to put leverage on the Scots to ‘support’ it, and take the heat off IndyRef2.

    Poor old England. One very good thing from our point of view, In order to campaign for the Peoples Vote, they will have to highlight – to an English market – what an absolute disaster Brexit is – in all its formats. And the Scottish media are not big enough to hide that.

    Meanwhile big business has said they can’t go past Autumn before having to put in place contingencies – i.e. moving. Job losses, Industry losses going, going, gone.

    I sincerely hope 2 very clear instructions come out of the SNP Conference –

    Campaign on this:

    there is no good deal Brexit,

    and there are not enough Voters in Scotland for the People in Westminster to ever listen to or give a toss about us.

    The Peoples Vote is an INSULT to the Voters of Scotland.

    We voted 62% Remain – and we meant it.

    Whatever the date of the next Indy Ref, the above ground is the ground that needs covered, we would be absolute fools not to utilise the momentum (and campaign material) of the Peoples Vote, to help cover the ground.

    Brexshit is Project Fear on speed, with the added ‘quality’ that its true. Indy is the safe port in the storm now.

    There has been no let up (from either side) on the campaign for Indy since 2014. And there will be no Brexshit let up in the next 6 months.

    I don’t think we need another long Indy campaign. I think that would be a mistake.

    People vote on an emotional level. They get scared, they get scunnered and then some small piece of evidence from the other side, offers them a crumb of comfort and they grab it and the shutters come down. Shop shut, no more info accepted.

    That was why Project Fear played on a ratio of 2 parts bad: 1 part good news.

    Salzburg has bought the EU some time to build its infrastructure – and kicked the can down the road till mid November.

    The First Minister cannot call the date of Indy Ref 2 at conference now because of that. But she can do the above, and so can we.

    Come mid November I rather think Brexit ‘negotiations’ are going to fail.

    I bet WM is crunching the numbers just now –

    if they go for a GE now can they keep the SNP out,

    if they go for a GE 6 months from now (after Peoples Vote campaign) can they keep the SNP out.

    Can they rig it whereby the timing is not such an issue.

    And that folks is as much as my we brain can speculate on the noo.

    Best wishes for all.

  112. Macart says:

    On another note. Yesterday was yet another salutary lesson on what happens when the support and representation just isn’t there when you need it.

    OBFA and education are the tip of the iceberg. The other parties aren’t there to fight for peoples needs or hold government to account. They don’t even care overmuch that Scotland has a parliament, though it does provide them with an income. They are there to represent their party’s interests in Scotland. Pretty much, end of.

    These are British Nationalist parties, with a British Nationalist agenda. Their preferred choice of parliament and system of government lie considerably farther south. Their job is to support that system of government and act as a bulwark against barbaric breakouts of democracy in the local parish cooncil building. Their tribal, and frankly empathy free, nature makes them perfectly suited to this calling.

    As I said yesterday though, if that is what you want from Holyrood? If that is what you want from your representation? Then you can have that. You can have a parish council that frankly doesn’t give a shit whether you exist or not. You even have a choice of three, perhaps four, parties who’d be more than happy to return to the good old days of… wait. No. There weren’t really any good old days.

    Just sayin’, but you take your eye of the ball in politics at your peril. You give away what is yours by right? You fall into political apathy or unwarranted mistrust? They WILL take everything you have and stick you back in that box.

    Probably worth a thought.

  113. Nana says:


    Thanks Sam. Hospital appointments are stressful at any time but yesterday’s had the added worry of actually getting there what with the weather being so awful. At one point I thought I might be needing a canoe!

  114. Nana says:

    @Bob Mack

    Very well said Bob. We must all do our bit and try to keep a smile on our faces while we do it.

    Oh and badges on folks!!

  115. Macart says:


    Yes, it was a bad day for travel yesterday Nana. Been doing a lot of it recently myself for personal stuff and haven’t been on threads as much. It’s not going to get any easier in the next few months either. I’ll be popping in and out when I though. 🙂

  116. Daisy Walker says:

    @ Breeks

    I share your pain. I am loyal, so I don’t ‘often’ give voice, but much of what you express I agree with.

    There is a big difference from keeping powder dry, and pulling punches.

    Pete Wishart’s articles for postponing any Indy Ref 2 until after 2021 GE is just bonkers, that’s not even pulling punches, just abject surrender. John Swinney backed him in the CA meet soon after.

    There are things the SNP can and must do, and they have no excuse for not doing so. None. And time is running out.

    Every office – including constituency office – must utilise the windows. No-one should be able to walk or drive past that window without seeing something that informs them about what a fantastic, amazing place Scotland is, and what potential.

    A pathetic wee SNP Balloon with ‘Stronger for Scotland’ just doesn’t cut it I’m afraid.

    And when I say no-one, I mean no-one, even the blind. You put a wee dog bowl of water outside the office and as soon as a dog walker comes up, you go out and speak to them – offer the dog a biscuit.

    You put a flat screen TV in the window with info graphics that play 24/7 so the window shoppers can read something while they wait for their bus.

    You put a baby box in the window with all the reasons for why and ask local people to donate their favourite – baby in the baby box – photo.

    You put up a £500, £300 and £100 prize for the best T shirt design for young artists –

    Why Scotland Can

    you display the top 20 in the window and ask the public to vote on the winners. Then print them up and sell the T shirts.

    Come on.

    They need to get their shit together for info graphics (indyposterboy would be a good first contact) then get them in home print pdf format and ask every single member of the SNP to print them off and display them in the cars and windows.

    Come on.

    The SNP builds houses. I love them for it, but the way they present it, just loses them votes, time after time.

    They must understand why, and then present the positive case for why, much, much better.

    100 homes = how many jobs = how many modern apprenticeships = how much money for local business in the community = how many young families keeping the local rural school viable

    Come on.

    They need to tell us, when they ask us for money, how many Billboards (if any – which is doubtful) have they hired, what posters are they using, on what subject, what areas and why.

    They must start re-connecting with the Yes Movement. Alex Salmond gave us big clear messages and the Yes Movement picked them up a ran with them. Currently we get nothing.

    They need to stop worrying (in my area) about frightening the Tory Horses and start inspiring the people.

    They do so much well. I realise the above is additional. But it needs done, and not to do at least some of it is an own goal of epic proportions given what we face.

  117. Petra says:

    @ Breeks ….

    ”No, what’s ridiculous is defending Scotland’s Sovereignty and place as an EU Member Nation by doing NOTHING while our opportunity is destroyed, except chuntering from the sidelines how beastly the Tories are, and how feckless the Labour Party is.”

    Meanwhile you don’t seem to be doing too much either other than chuntering on from the sidelines, running the SNP down at every turn. You’ve never had a good word to say about them as conversely you’ve never actually told us who you actually support. Who you think will be instrumental in getting us our Independence. You?

    ..” while our “radical” elected Government strives to keep it (Independence) OFF the agenda, and make itself an enigma, which seems profoundly and unbelievably Constitutionally illiterate, thinking it can set aside the sovereign will of the people which chose to remain in Europe, and pursue instead its own forlorn strategy to advocate a soft Brexit option of maintaining access to the Single Market.”

    Profoundly and unbelievably Constitutionally illiterate? Give us all a break FGS. Do you really think that you know more about these issues than say, Nicola Sturgeon? Delusions of grandeur setting in right enough. You also seem to lack real insight in relation to what’s actually going on here – the STRATEGY which will lead to us getting our Independence, sooner than later.

    ”Just remind yourself what we had going for us the day after we lost in 2014, from the BBC’s biased corruption on the rails, (go watch London Calling again), to unprecedented levels of political engagement in Scotland’s hardest to reach housing schemes, a YES phenomenon which totally commanded the narrative online. We lost, apparently, but their victory was short lived ..”

    I don’t need to be reminded – we lost due to 55% of Sovereign Scots voting NO.

    ”But nevermind, Brexit came along and the voters of Scotland delivered a definitive Constitutional watershed where the sovereign, democratic will of Scotland lay diametrically opposed to the sovereign will of England, and Scotland had a cast iron anvil upon which to break the back of the Union. Yes! Scotland was STRONG.”

    Really? Do you think that the 62% of Scots that voted to remain in the EU actually wanted to ”break the back of the Union?” If so where do you get that idea from? The 62% of Scots indicated that they wanted to stay in the EU as PART of the Union (that was the question put to them) and that’s just one element of the dilemma that Nicola Sturgeon faces. 38% of Sovereign Scots didn’t want to remain in the EU at all. How many of the 62% of Sovereign Scots actually wanted Independence whilst remaining in the EU? Do you know? Nicola Sturgeon is the First Minister of Scotland and has to be seen to be doing the day job for ALL Scots – 100%. Do you really think that her bleating on about Independence day in and day out is going to get us anywhere? She wants independence (one solitary person) and we want independence (thousands of us), so let’s get on and do it instead of complaining about her constantly.

    ”I am fecking sick of it.”

    I (we?) know you’re sick of it, but I’m sick of it too. Sick and tired of people attempting to discredit Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP (whom I don’t think are perfect) when they’re the ONLY tool we have in the toolbox that’s going to get us out of this bl**dy Union. People like you who are constantly running them down are if anything weakening our case for Independence. Can’t you see that?

  118. Thepnr says:


    I’m sure you’ll be there when the need is at its greatest 🙂

  119. Graf Midgehunter says:

    Robert Louis says:
    20 September, 2018 at 11:23 am

    “However, the question does need asked, JUST WHY are the EU so complacent and seemingly happy to let England force Scotland and its people out of the EU. The UK is NOT a single country, rather a union of countries and territories.”

    The problem is that most of the world doesn’t see it that way.

    What they do see is a “Country” which for over 300 years has called itself the UK of GB and NI. It has a Head of State, Parliament and Capital in London which does the business of representing the “Country”. It signs Treaties, has Agreements with other countries around the world and is a Member of the EU.

    How we got to that point through Union of Crowns, Acts of Union, Kingdoms uniting as one etc., is seen as a purely internal matter for the now UK.

    Scotland is very well liked in the EU for example and most people would definitly welcome an indy Scotland, however most people have barely any grasp of the history or why we want our independence back again.

    Braveheart and tourism make them sympathetic to us but politically most people switch off.

    Bavaria was until the end of the 19 century independent but with close affiliation to the other German States/Bund.

    It’s now a very rich State with a very strong agricultural sector and world-class manufacturing, cars, aviation, industrial engineering etc..
    It’s also very traditional minded with its culture much as Scotland is.

    It’s also very independence minded and would if it got the chance do a “Scotland”. Once again it’s the politics which keep it tied to the rest of Germany.

    When we look at Bavaria/Germany do we differentiate between the Bavarian – German history or do we see it as an internal German problem? If at all..!

    We want our independence back again but the ONLY people who can do it is ourselves.
    Then and only then will other countries talk to us as equals.

  120. Effijy says:

    I don’t want to witch hunt Kez but remember she is willing to lie to the general public to keep her job.

    She is willing to detach from her principles at the drop of a hat, i.e. totally against Corbyn and voted against his leadership but his best mate when he comes up to visit.

    She must have plied him with lies for his visit as his claims were
    SNP Bad a bridge seel not Scottish made- although we don’t make that type of steel.

    SNP Bad should give new Ferries order to Scottish yard- Even though EU rules make it illegal to do so.

    She is happy with a so called socialist party full of 3Millionair Lords, a party that wouldn’t vote against further austerity, a party happy to promote food banks.

    I’ll never forget her extra money from Air Passenger Tax.
    By not applying the tax she thought that we would get extra revenue?

    I’m sure she is nice at heart but she is damaging the innocent
    with her activities and holding back Scotland from a brighter future where we control our own resources.

    She put this noose around her own neck so can learn how to suffer like those who have lived under new Labour governments.

  121. Jack Murphy says:

    Scottish Parliament. TODAY.


    Broadcasting Scotland:

  122. HandandShrimp says:

    Still don’t know why she didn’t apologise. The submission from her lawyers in the first hearing was quite simply odd and I am baffled that Kezia would have approved of suggesting that a quip about Ollie’s mum having a hysterectomy would be fine but not that his dad should have embraced who he was earlier. The former would, in my view, be in very poor taste as hysterectomies are no laughing matter whereas I thought we were encouraging a society where people felt free to embrace their gender/sexuality/whatever. The joke was always a time travel “what if” to free us from Ollie’s awful oratory and nothing more than that.

    I wonder if she will run with the same submission on her appeal or whether she has only just clocked what they said and wants to start again. Nothing to stop Stu’s lawyers highlighting the first submission though.

    I am surprised that Labour have ditched a former leader half way through though. Even if the initial support was an error of judgement you would have thought they would have just bitten the bullet.

  123. Lenny Hartley says:

    Petra @ 14:02 well said.

  124. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Daisy Walker @ 13:54:

    There is a big difference from keeping powder dry, and pulling punches.

    Pete Wishart’s articles for postponing any Indy Ref 2 until after 2021 GE is just bonkers, that’s not even pulling punches, just abject surrender. John Swinney backed him in the CA meet soon after.


    A pathetic wee SNP Balloon with ‘Stronger for Scotland’ just doesn’t cut it I’m afraid.

    Well said, Daisy. That has been my feeling for some time now, and it’s getting worse, as others are now apparently busy trying to “explainerise” how we can afford to let a truly historic UK crisis pass by with merely a shrug and a hope that somehow people will wake up all of their own accord afterwards and suddenly demand change.

    It’s one thing to be ready while carefully biding your time, and quite another to give every impression that you don’t have the stomach for a showdown any time soon. Maybe it’s all just a carefully-crafted smokescreen but I’m beginning to feel – with some at least – it’s genuine funk.

    There is indeed only so far you can get by being the party of better mitigation. Not least when every aspect of it (and even reserved matters on top) is cynically attacked anyway by the BritNat Party as totally inadequate.

  125. Petra says:

    @ Daisy Walker says at 1:54 pm …

    Every suggestion you have outlined in your post Daisy, and the dozens of others made on here over time, should be carried out by the thousands of Independence supporters across the country. This isn’t just down to one woman, one Independence supporter, who’s up to her neck in it. Too easy to sit back and complain about her and the SNP when it looks as though it’s actually thousands of people out there (and on here) who are actually sitting on their ar*es doing nothing. And truth be told that’s not correct either as many of us, maybe not THE thousands, have been working our butts off day and night for the last four years or so.

  126. schrodingers cat says:

    when canvasing during the last ge(2017) and council elections, people on the doorstep didnt want to hear about indyref2, they were more concerned about brexit. that is why, although neither of these elections were about indyref2, the tories in scotland campaigned on nothing else but no to a 2nd ref.
    (btw, the snp ge landslide of 2015 was also not an indy campaign)

    upshot, the tories managed to mobilise the unionist voters and the snp didnt.

    that is why nicola took indyref2 back off the table until the people of scotland know what brexit actually means. people want certainty, not more conflicting options about how bad or good brexit is going to be.

    that is why the snp position is the uk and or scotland should remain in the sm/cu. Why? because of the 38% of scots who voted leave, there is a large % who did so believing they would get a good, not the no deal or treezas checkers deal.

    staying in the sm/cu is by far the most popular position in scotland.

    a ge this autumn is now almost certain and the snp will stick to this policy until the result is known. only then will people know what brexit means

    then she will launch indyref2

  127. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    HandandShrimp @ 14:21,

    I suspect it was the combined arrogance of NorthBritLab and the DR who thought that they could deploy their typical virtue signalling to smear a mere blogger and get away with it. A little bit of mud slung will stick, they assumed.

    They are so behind the times that they had no idea of the minefield into which they were stumbing. A minefield sown by the combined power of WoS supporters everywhere.

    Now maybe NorthBritLab chiefs at least can see that this defence has nowhere much to go and is cutting its losses. Combined, I suspect, with Corbyn getting a little bit of revenge in as a side serving.

    What a parcel of rogues, the lot of them.

  128. Nana says:

    oh dear

    Macron: “Brexit is the choice of the British people… pushed by those who predicted easy solutions… Those people are liars. They left the next day so they didn’t have to manage it.”

  129. Fred says:

    @ Petra, you didn’t miss him & hit the wa’. Our government can be out-voted at Holyrood as was demonstrated yesterday & Nicola walks a tightrope.

  130. Nana says:

    European Council President Donald Tusk says EU leaders agree Theresa May’s Chequers plan for #Brexit “will not work” because “it risks undermining the single market”

    After criticism of her Chequers plan by EU leaders, Theresa May stands by her #Brexit proposals as “the only serious and credible” option – but admits there’s “lots of hard work to be done” to reach a deal

    An informal meeting of the EU heads of state and government, devoted to Brexit as well as issues such as internal security and migration, is being held in the Austrian city of Salzburg, which started on Wednesday and is due to conclude later in the day.

  131. Nana says:

    European Council President Donald Tusk says EU leaders agree Theresa May’s Chequers plan for #Brexit “will not work” because “it risks undermining the single market”
    video here

    After criticism of her Chequers plan by EU leaders, Theresa May stands by her #Brexit proposals as “the only serious and credible” option – but admits there’s “lots of hard work to be done” to reach a deal
    video here

  132. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    schrodingers cat @ 14:54

    that is why nicola took indyref2 back off the table until the people of scotland know what brexit actually means. people want certainty, not more conflicting options about how bad or good brexit is going to be.

    Which is fair enough, as far as it goes. But you have to wonder how many BMWs moving their UK manufacturing over to the continent it has to take before people do have this ephemeral “certainty”. And what part can leadership fully play in this, without a campaign?

    Meanwhile, people like Alex Neil are still saying, as he apparently did at the Hope over Fear Rally the other day, of indyref2 not happening for another two or three years?! How does that kind of defeatist talk possibly help convince people that we are serious?

    If that’s really the plan, then we’ll never make it. Always waiting for Godot.

    Yes, there might be a UKGE at year end, by dint of circumstances. The Tory Party though know full well that they either hang together or they hang apart, as Ben Franklin once put it. And Labour, that bunch of indecisive wimps, whirling uselessly in the wind? Can they manage to successfully pull the plug on the current UKGov?

    And even if there is an election, what kind of certainty will we possibly have then?

    Except the most important one of all, that the faster we are out of this catastrophic never-ending UK mess, the better off we will be.

    And that doesn’t take too much thought. It’s obvious even right this very minute.

  133. Fred says:

    Watched Alex Neil, didn’t impress me & didn’t impress the crowd. This has been a week when all & sundry have queued up for a kick at the Scottish Government. The whole shitstorm over Primary 1’s & hysterical tales of weans greetin at the thought of being “Tested!” As if some weans don’t greet on their first day at school anyhow? scrap school?

    We have had the odious Mundell junior & the Tory bastards, backed up by Slab & the LibDem’s competing to put the boot in & not forgetting the fuckin Green’s who should reflect on Sheridan’s Socialists & what happened to them.

    Some teacher has the Long-Letter in the National & she’s resigning from the SNP if things don’t suit her. Well she can take her pittance & fuck-off & watch the door doesn’t hit her on the arse on the wey oot! Maybe teaching’s not for her? Even Lesley Riddoch has joined in the fun with her schooldays fantasia & another boot at John while she’s at it!

  134. Fran says:

    The Yorkshire chap is absolutely spot on.

  135. Tinto Chiel says:

    @Fred 5.07: yes, read that Long Letter and Ms Riddoch’s musings while visiting the “Death Star” hospital in Glasgow. Appalled that parking is free there, thus denying Kezia plenty of dough for her valiant defence from The Bearded Cybernat’s vile attacks.

    I hope Dr Jim didn’t see the “SNP activist” and primary teacher’s observations, which prove his assertion that there are too many showboaters who don’t want independence until their specific needs on a minor policy issue are met immediately, or they’ll flounce out and French-kiss a Britnat.

    Weasels rip my flesh.

  136. Jim says:

    @ Breeks:
    No, no, no, Jim. Don’t worry. The SNP anticipated this and has this eventuality covered. It’s all going according to plan. They will play “let’s just wait and see” for four years, and everything will work out splendidly. It’s a proven formula… apparently. Don’t let the declining support fool you, it’s all part of the cunning plan that’s top secret but foolproof. Ssssh! Keep it under your hat.

    Sorry, tried to decipher this to no avail, help!

  137. yesindyref2 says:

    It’s sarcasm Jim.

    The way I see it we’re all feeling ragged, impatient, frustrated, annoyed, wanting it to get going. The difference is that some of us think it’s still on schedule, we’re having to wait until “the terms of Brexit are known”. Or even if there’s actually going to be one. Or if there’s a 6 month extension for the negotiating and Brexit date which quite frankly will have me going out and kicking inanimate objects. I’ll wear my steel-capped safety boots 🙂

    Some though don’t think there’s a plan, and it isn’t helped by the likes of Wishart, Robin McAlpine and his merry men, and others who are talking about after the next election, or even until “we can win it we can’t afford to lose it” which will quite frankly, be never, not 100 years can we be certain of winning it.

    So yeah, we’re all ragged and uppity and quite frankly [censored censored censored censored censored censored censored censored censored censored censored censored censored censored censored censored censored]

  138. Fred says:

    @ Tinto, happy Zapa memories, “Off Topic” a bit quiet so quick book review of Craig Murray’s excellent “Sikunder Burness!” “Master of the Great Game!”. A biog of the poet Burns’ Montrose cousin & his career with the East India Company. Every other Saab seems to hail from Montrose & is chauvin-awa tae thwart the Russian Bear in Central Asia. Hats-off to Craig for a great read. Ashamed to say I’ve never been in Montrose. Saalam Alaikum!

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