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Wings Over Scotland

The Experts

Posted on September 13, 2015 by

Turns outย it’s not just Scotland the media commentariat knows nothing about.


(of the Telegraph)


(The Independent)


(The Times)


(Guardian, New Statesman, Independent, others)


(The Times)


(Conservative party worker at Greater London Assembly reassures above chums.)


(Disgraced former Labour MP Denis “Slobodan Salmond” MacShane identifies Steve Richards of the Independent and Helen Lewis, deputy editor of the New Statesman.)


(Atul Hatwal is the editor of Labour Uncut. Articles from July and August.)



Who knows Labour better than its own MPs?


But, y’know, when you can’t even rely on the judgement of the guy who used to be in Right Said Fred any more, maybe it’s not really the pundits’ fault.



On the other hand, some things are always certain.


And of course, nobody’s perfect.

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  1. 13 09 15 15:43

    The Experts | Speymouth

  2. 08 02 16 01:22

    Whom The Gods Would Destroy, They First Make Mad | A Wilderness of Peace

276 to “The Experts”

  1. Gillian_Ruglonian says:

    Oh it’s good sometimes just to have a nice big laugh. Cheers Stu ๐Ÿ˜€

  2. jimnarlene says:

    Corbyn’s safe enough then, if McTernan’s spending every minute taking the party back off of him.

    Who does McTernan think he is, 60% or so of the labour membership voted for Corbyn, surely the members gave Corbyn the right to run the party, not shitehawks like McTernan.

    Still, pop corn at the ready…

  3. Marie Clark says:

    That went well for them then eh!

    Still very entertaining to say the least. Watch this space, I have a feeling that the best is yet to come.

  4. Grouse Beater says:

    People who make predictions based on their prejudices usually end up with custard splattered on their face.

  5. Richardinho says:

    These people are mostly idiots who like the sound of their own keyboard and think that they must be right just because they’ve got a by-line.

    It reminds me of Tony Blair who thought that something was true simply by virtue of the fact that he said it.

  6. ronald alexander mcdonald says:

    I wonder what odds the bookies are giving for him to be PM?

  7. Iain More says:

    I did enjoy Channel 4 giving McTernan the Necromancer lots of room to vent his spleen at Corbyns election yesterday.

    Did Disreporting Auntie give him equal time to vent. I hope they did.

    Or maybe his anger was at whoever stole his copy of the Necronomicon.

  8. Greg says:

    Hmmm, dunno, that last one looks photoshopped! ๐Ÿ˜€

  9. Mik Johnstone says:

    i’ll just sit here with my packed lunch and wait for the world to end, just like every media outlet said it would if Corbyn won the leadership…. They can’t be lying, they tell the truth…. Coffee anyone …lol

  10. Onwards says:

    A lot of that will be attempts to influence the vote.
    The real question is can he win a UK election ?

    Possibility if he can boost turnout – but expect him to be absolutely hammered by the media. And if the polls don’t improve then they have a crisis.

    Of course he can always perform complete U-turns, like half the Labour politicians are doing right now.
    First thing will be to drop opposition to NATO.

  11. Jon D says:

    Utterly brilliant Stu.

    No wonder they all hate you right down into the rotten depths of their empty, meaningless, hypocritical, bastardised, souls.

    And, of course, that’s why WE love you! ๐Ÿ™‚

  12. Robert Louis says:

    It’ll all be big smiles from the parliamentary Labour party over the next week. All saying how they will ‘make it work’, how they ‘respect’ the democratic choice.

    At night they’ll be sharpening their knives.

  13. Hamish100 says:

    McTernan is a tory dressed up as “new” Labour Blairite.
    Blair joined the labour party as he couldn’t get elected in the NE England.
    He wanted power and would do anything to get it. If it had suited he would have joined the tories or lib dems.
    McTernan used Blair and Murphy and……..

  14. paul says:

    Nice to decent a decent man elected. I don’t see Gideon’s leadership succession having quite the same popular expression.
    At least the blairites will have someone to hate even more than the SNP.

  15. Auldmack says:

    Big laugh, someone known to me been on the phone tells me she did not vote for Corbyn, She is a Tory through and through, but became a labour supporter through her union in her work, although retired she still has union membership and a vote. this fair makes me laugh when in cleaning out the ยฃ3 pound supporters they did not look hard enough at the union members and a great number got through the Labour trawling net. It seems to me the forgot something a net is a packet that is full of holes, just like the Labour brains full of holes.

  16. Cadogan Enright says:

    Let us hope that no-one with influence in Labour notice how comprehensively wrong McTeiran is in his every forthright pronouncement and they continue to give him a leading role.

    There is no chance that the BBC will notice – just like they did not notice what Kezia said about Corbyn and let her thrills of joy at his election go unchallenged.

    Meanwhile with 3 days to go and IScot not quite half way there, let’s contine to build he infrastructure of independence and broaden our base

  17. dakk says:

    Grousebeater. 2.16

    I’ll make a prediction and its based on what I’ve read on Wings threads,not prejudice.

    Corbyn led Labour can’t win a GE because the key marginals which usually decide the outcome are soft Tory and will become hard Tory at the thought of ‘old’Labour.

    He may win increased majorities in safe Labour seats but in first past post system,this will be of no consequence,so he’s a lame duck Labour leader.

  18. msean says:

    It seems the only thing thats making Mr Corbyn unelectable in England is their own members refusing to work with an the elected leader. Disunited party and all that.

  19. One_Scot says:

    Here’s the rub, the right wing British State and media are about to unleash hell on Corbyn, so what exactly is his incentive to help maintain their colonies?

  20. One_Scot says:

    Would it be fair to say if Corbyn came out and stated he was in favour of Scottish Independence, would the union be dead.

    Is that is silver bullet.

  21. Dave Hansell says:

    The loudest most audible sound ringing throughout the land this weekend is the sound of a collective assortment of dummies, rattles, and teddies being thrown out of the prams of a tired and discredited bunch of self regarding chancers and gravy train chasers who only have time for that section of the electorate who are susceptible to their snake oil.

    To these people anyone and everyone within the electorate who does not concur with their failed world view is discardable. The picture of the week has to be that of Tristan Hunt ‘ s face when the result was announced. This bunch will continue to plot on behalf of the corporate establishment from the backbenches, briefing in secret a vicious fourth estate which itself has been captured by the same interests who they themselves serve.

    The self delusion of chasing Tory voters whilst actively ignoring and denying the reality of the larger number of non voters switched off by their sell out to neo liberal Corporatism and all those who voted for an alterative they cannot support should lead them to the logical conclusion there is no longer alterative place for their cuckoo in the nest entryism.

    It’s over. They should man up and get used to it.

  22. Marcia says:

    All those who put a bet on Corbyn when he 200-1 will be laughing all the way down to the bank. Now wish I had done that!

    McTernan should do what Tom Harris did yesterday and put on his twitter avatar that he is part of the 4.5% who voted for Kendall.

  23. David Stevenson says:

    Plenty competition there, but the McTernan Trifecta tops the lot!

  24. Dr Jim says:

    Who are the new Labour voting Morningside Murray Tories going to vote for now
    They must know the Tories can’t win at Holyrood, they won’t be able to bring themselves to vote for Corbyns Labour

    Do they vote for disgraced Lib Dems, can’t trust them not to change their minds on anything they say

    Greens? forget that, it’s Morningside, who’s left, you don’t think Nah they wouldn’t would they

    Vote SNP to keep Labour out I can almost hear it now, all the way from Glasgow
    It kinda puts the Mockers on Wee Ruthless’s move from Glasgow SNP to Edinburgh SNP

    Could it happen?

  25. Philip Allan says:

    Hilarious! All these Facists, Tories and right Wing press INSISTING “We don’t want it to happen, so it CAN’T happen!”

    “Let’s all shut our eyes, click our heels together and say ‘Corbyn is unelectable! Corbyn will lose! Our comfy financial status quo is safe!’ Now let’s open our eyes, and everything will be…………….OH SHITE!”

  26. JLT says:

    After reading all of the above captions posted by Stuart, I’m left wondering as to what is really going on! Is it:

    (a) The political commentators for the papers are so biased in their own opinions, that they are truly blind to what they hear or see.

    (b) They are being told by some Editor-in-Chief to follow a set order as issued by the Establishment member that owns the paper, and that they must write ‘Corbyn is a loser’ …no matter what.

    (c) They are clueless and are just following the herd. One of them decides that Corbyn is a ‘loser’, and therefore they all just jump on the same bandwagon, no matter what the common person in the street is telling them.

    (d) They are doing it for a joke (and only the political media boys are in on it)

    (e) They are bone idle lazy; can’t be bothered to investigate and find the facts; won’t interview anyone; follow media speculation instead; and then point out afterwards that they had predicted the outcome all along.

    Any other suggestions are welcome…

  27. Robert Peffers says:

    @Grouse Beater says: 13 September, 2015 at 2:16 pm:

    “People who make predictions based on their prejudices usually end up with custard splattered on their face”

    I’ve news fir ye. Grouse Beater. – Yon’s no custard oan thir nebs, an Ah’m no gawn tae hae ony o it oan ma rhubarb.

  28. JLT says:

    ronald alexander mcdonald says:

    I wonder what odds the bookies are giving for him to be PM?

    Forget it! They won’t make him 200-1 again!

    If they did, I might punt a couple of grand on him …and then quietly retire if he wins LOL

  29. Macart says:

    Somebody pass the chocolate raisins. Its fun watching the media and assorted metro punditry have a hairy fit. ๐Ÿ™‚

  30. JLT says:

    From what I have seen of people’s opinions on Corbyn and what it means for both the Labour and Tory party, then in my view, I can only see the Tories rolling out one of their oldest tricks.

    Divide and Conquer

    I think the Tories will lead Corbyn down the garden path towards a series of traps during PM Questions on a Wednesday, and in doing so, they will get him to admit what his policies are, and what he intends to do with them. I can see Cameron gleefully pointing to the Labour backbenches as he gets Corbyn to answer, and ask the Labour Leader how his answer will go down with the Blairites who are watching on fuming.

    By keeping the Blairites and Corbynites at each others throats, the Labour Party will look ineffective, decisive and bitter. Who would vote for them?

    That means another Tory victory come 2020.

  31. A2 says:

    And of course , these are the same people who are (and will be) saying Labour is un-electable at the next election.

  32. A2 says:

    (the uk one)

  33. Wuffing Dug says:

    I’m beginning to agree with some posters on here.

    Chillax and enjoy the almighty cluster fk unfolding down south.

    When you step back and think about it Corbyn could be the catalyst for the final wm meltdown, listen to the squeals of the fuckwitariat already!

    Thank god for Nicola.

    Never interrupt your enemy when they are making a mistake. Let them get on with it. Heartened by SNP stance on Corbyn.

    I think he’s in an impossible position, completely untenable. He has never actually held a ministerial position.

    His ‘own side’ are gunning for him.
    Popularist pish will not wash in the real world.

    Cameron could chew him up and spit him out, we shall see.

    The neo cons have a new target now, they will concentrate on him, take their eye off the ball.

    There should be further opportunities for some SNP mischief now.

    Next few weeks will be interesting.

  34. Democracy Reborn says:

    None of us are soothsayers, Stu, although the MSM pundits do seem to get it wrong more often than not (including the result of GE2015 : but would it not be fair to say that most people opined a hung parliament than Tory majority?).

    5 years is a very long time in politics, and it would be rash to say that it’s *impossible* Corbyn can’t win a majority. Arguably, anything is possible. The more pertinent question is, is it likely he will? Or, as Nicola put it yesterday, does he have a credible chance? The historical lessons, and the current evidence (which, granted, can always materially change) would suggest “no”:-

    โ€ข despite the level of his ‘mandate’, Corbyn is going to lead a deeply divided party. Only 10% of the PLP voted for him. 7 shadow cabinet ministers have said they will not serve under him. Expect the MSM to torque up the “Labour Divided” line continuously. The electorate do not generally find divided parties an attractive proposition : eg. 1983 (Labour); 1997 (Tories). The majority of Labour MPs are going to have to perform political gymnastics in order to subscribe to a Corbyn agenda (eg on tax & spend, Trident, NATO). The public aren’t daft, they know when politicians peddle horseshit they don’t believe in.

    โ€ข there is no doubt a disenfranchised bloc of voters in England who want an alternative to a Tory-lite, neo-liberal agenda. I’m not sure though that a couple of hundred thousand new Labour members paying ยฃ3 to join and vote in the leadership contest is representative of Labour’s target vote in England if they’re to win a majority. As far as I’m aware, the studies that have been carried out post-GE2015 showed that Labour failed to win a majority in England because (1) voters didn’t like Ed Milliband; (2) they didn’t trust Labour on the economy and immigration; and (3) they thought things were going in the ‘right direction’ under the Tories. There’s no evidence I’ve seen that English voters turned their back on Labour because it wasn’t left wing enough.

    โ€ข you reference the pundits’ failure to forecast the SNP winning a majority in Holyrood in 2011 and the GE2015 landslide. The difference is that by 2011 the SNP had shown 4 years of competence in government as a minority administration, and voters rather liked what they did. Corbyn has no opportunity to demonstrate his competence in government prior to 2020. If English voters didn’t trust Labour under Red Ed, they’re hardly likely to trust loony left Jeremy (I see that not 24 hours had passed after Corbyn’s election and the Tories put out a “he’s a threat to the country’s security, economy and your family” press release). As far as GE2015, the Indyref was clearly a game changer for many voters (particularly Labour) in determining who they would vote for in the GE. MSM pundits had their heads in the sand. The polls for weeks (months?) beforehand put the SNP ahead. Nicola was popular. It was clear that the SNP were going to make gains, albeit few people predicted the scale of the victory. What equivalent game changer will Corbyn have prior to 2020 to facilitate a Labour majority?

    โ€ข as I said in a previous post, boundary changes that are due to take place prior to 2020 are likely to give the Tories an extra 20-25 seats. It will take a landslide of 1997 proportions to give Labour a majority of 1.

    โ€ข there was a poll last night tweeted by Gerry Hassan from Survation. Ok, it was only a snapshot in the immediate aftermath of Corbyn’s victory. But over 50% said that his election would make no difference to how they vote. For the remainder, more said it would make them less likely to vote Labour than for him.

    I genuinely wish Corbyn well and, if I lived in England, would probably vote for him. My only interest in his victory is how it impacts on Scotland moving towards independence. He doesn’t support independence. He doesn’t even wish to extend the Smith powers. His policy prescriptions are wholly UK-centric. Insofar as left of centre Yes/SNP voters might be tempted by his policy platform, they need to ask themselves : despite 50 years of voting Labour and getting Tory governments most of the time, are they really again going to put their trust in England, “that most conservative of nations”?

  35. Robert Peffers says:

    Tell you something else. This Corbyn win, in spite of the media hype and Establishment cross-party opposition including his own Labour Party, sends a torpedo right through the Good Ship HMS Westminster’s engine room.

    Scotland has now rejected the English Establishment parties and it looks like the ordinary party members have rumbled this former Red Tory Leaders in the London Labour Party. We just may see an Earthquake in English and Welsh politics now. It has long passed the time for the ordinary party members to take back their party from the Red Tory leadership – but better late than never.

  36. Luigi says:

    Robert Louis says:
    13 September, 2015 at 2:36 pm

    Itโ€™ll all be big smiles from the parliamentary Labour party over the next week.

    Apparently, Botox sales have just gone through the roof.

  37. frogesque says:

    @ Wuffing Dug

    “squeals of the fuckwitariat”

    Love it!

  38. Luigi says:

    Dr Jim says:
    13 September, 2015 at 3:02 pm

    Who are the new Labour voting Morningside Murray Tories going to vote for now

    That’s a very good question. The fur coat brigade won’t be so keen to vote tactically next time round. So, Blue Rinse Dearies, what’s it going to be:

    Anyone but SNP?


    Anyone but Corbyn?

    Ain’t life a bitch!. ๐Ÿ™‚

  39. dakk says:

    Democracy Reborn 3.57

    Given that Rev Stuart’s tweet is dated 15th July 2015 I think he was being ironic about Corbyn’s chances.

    And he is being a bit of a braggadocio in throwing his tweet in at the end of the post.

  40. heedtracker says:

    Hubris is such a bitch. Although Macternan’s spending every minute taking Labour back from JC, makes it clear why the JC years certainly mean Toryboy England for decades.

    Wishful voting or will JC really be any different from Milliband? he’s not a good speaker but maybe he could ensure Bomber Bliar and co actually stand in the dock at The Hague war crimes court?

  41. Gary45% says:

    The sad thing is Labourites don’t realise, Mr Corbyn will actually be a good thing for democracy in this small, wee island.
    He may start to bring back old Labour values, (who knows?) one thing’s for sure, the establishment troughers will be starting to sh*t themselves at the prospect of the gravy train being derailed.
    The Blairsh*tes can go and join their fellow tory pals,
    expect the establishment to go into overdrive, if we thought the smear campaign against the SNP was bad, we ain’t seen nothing yet.
    The Red Torries and the Torries are basically funded by the same scumbags in “The City” it’s just a big game to them, only it’s not a game when ordinary human beings are part of it.
    Expect more reports of Russian planes in UK air space,(with the use of library pictures) over the next wee while, they will have to keep the electorate paranoid about the need for nukes, mocked photographs of Mr Corbyn, Ms Sturgeon and Mr Putin having dinner together e.t.c
    “the times they could be a changing”
    Vote SNP get SNP.

  42. liz says:

    Agree with the idea that the MSM screeching against Corbyn pushed a lot of voters to go for him – Tories trying to destroy Lab.

    If Corbyn is truely going to get Lab back to it’s roots, announce the complete withdrawal of all Lab peers from HoL in his acceptance speech.

  43. Al-Stuart says:



    Are we in a parallel universe? Must have missed something over the past 48 hours. Well o’ well, isn’t Westminster having a lot of political earthquakes of late.

  44. JLT says:

    Seems that harmony doesn’t quite reign between Tom and Jerry as we might truly think. Sure they’re pally, but both have slightly different opinions on key matters.

    Tom states in the Huffington Post article (and apparently live on the Andrew Marr show this morning), that there are 3 key policies of Corbyn’s that Tom isn’t happy about; Trident, the EU and Nato.

    No doubt the Blairites will have taken notice of this admission, and no matter how much Tom states that there will be ‘โ€œzero chanceโ€ of Labour MPs mounting a coup against Mr Corbyn’, but then they don’t have too …they only have to undermine him over key policies. This would then lead to Corbyn being perceived by all as a lame duck Party Leader. In the end, resignation is far better than a blood-led coup.

    Well …who knows …we might get to see a live version of our cartoon heroes in full on rage yet if the peace between them is broken!

  45. K1 says:

    Aye Liz, but we all know Corbyn will be hemmed in by the blairites, I don’t see how he can really make any ‘changes’ of the fundamental kind that signify a real shift back to their roots.

    That’s ‘how’ the Tories will play this out as others have said; goad Corbyn and watch the Labour backbenchers squirm. Popcorn time right enough.

    Btw if he did withdraw Lab peers, it would be a ‘revolutionary’ act. I think they would have himโ€ฆfall off a mountain or slip on some grass on a dry hot day rather than let him have any ‘real’ power.

  46. Louis.b.argyll says:

    Thankyou Wings,

    The most interesting for me was Michael White, slagging off Len Mcluskey in the older posts.

    Shows that it’s not just the establishment types who are out of touch, but the MSM who have thes
    these people as regular commentators.

    Mcluskey has backed many a winner and many a loser in his time, but has respect for sticking to his remit as trade unionist to protect his members best interests.

    I’m considering the BBC licence “don’t pay to be lied at” option..even though always thought 30p a day was good value.

    HOWEVER, now that Corbyn will be putting up commentators and spokespeople on BBC news, should get more interesting.

    Who knows maybe we’ll get an actual political ‘argument’ on telly one day.

    Won’t win Labour more support than it already has, but might be a laugh.

  47. Grouse Beater says:

    Part of Corbyn’s appeal is, he does not blame the population for the state of the economy, or for economic migrants. He blames the Tories and neo-liberalism.

  48. Velofello says:

    Tip for Kezia: Builders Merchants sell kneepads.

  49. Grouse Beater says:

    Got a copy of Sunday Herald and a free hour at last!!

    Here’s my contribution:

  50. galamcennalath says:

    Corbyn is a sideshow, a distraction from the only way forward.

    What Nicola said today regards plans for indyref2 make a lot of sense. We need demand for it, a majority wanting Indy, and a good excuse to hold it.

    Scots need to get their head round a very simple fact – the future holds only two options. We can proceed to independence or we can live with Tory mandate-less rule for at least a decade.

    What about DevoMax/Home Rule? That only has one answer – stop being stupid, that won’t be given.

    Then, what about Corbyn and new old Labour riding to the rescue with an anti austerity, anti Trident message? Well, while Corbyn’s policies might have appeal to some, he represents a bigger threat to the neo-liberal establishment than anything else around. They will never ever let him achieve anything of consequence, one way or another. It will all get absolutely nowhere.

  51. CameronB Brodie says:

    heedtracker @ 4.21
    Won’t happen. Blair was only a puppet, draw to the side of the Dubya by his own personal greed and ambition. He was a perfect ‘usefull idiot’, as he is posh and stupid, i.e. dangerous (OK, Blair is intelligent but that does not make him wise).

    His protectors / handlers are far more powerful than Westminster.

  52. JBS says:

    “Admitting he and Corbyn had different opinions on Trident, [Tom] Watson said: โ€œNo one wants to live in a nuclear world, but it is how you disarm. I think the deterrent has kept the peace for half a century and hope we can have that debate in the party.โ€

    He also hopes to persuade Corbyn of the merits of Nato…”

    Hmm. I wonder what else Corbyn can be persuaded about. What’s happening here, is it a case of “meet the new boss, same as the old boss”? Now that he’s leader, is Corbyn about to morph into…Blair?

    If I were paranoid, I might think that the shadowy representatives of the extremely wealthy and extremely powerful individuals who really run the world had already paid a visit to Corbyn and told him that he better get with the programme fast, or else. If I were paranoid.

  53. Wuffing Dug says:


    Yeah, it’s entertaining.

    Long may they keep squealing.

    Let’s send them off with their tails between their legs and heads stuck up their arses.

    In fact, forget the arse bit, they have their noggins firmly lodged in their holes already.

  54. John Smithmaybe says:

    At least Mr McShane has some excuse : it must be difficult reintegrating into civilian life after his very new labour crime and punishment (invented ‘a front organisation…[then] submitted invoices to himself’). With such guardians of labour values it’s no wonder they’re having an identity crisis

  55. Karmanaut says:

    The right wing commentariat have no empathy for other people. If you can’t empathise with others, you can’t understand them. And if you can’t understand them, you can’t predict how they will behave.

  56. heedtracker says:

    Tip for Kezia: Builders Merchants sell kneepads.

    Amazon have good deals, discount for bulk purchase.

    Another tip is go back in time and watch how outfits like the Sun, BBC etc destroyed Michael Foot and Arthur Scargill. I can still mind kelvin Mackenzie monstering Foot on everything from his donkey jacket to their front page, “Do you really want this old man to rule Britain” and so on. Do toryboys/girls like Laura Kinsberg from Embro really have the chops to take down JC. They all flopped badly trying to turn Salmond into another Foot but Scotland is a very different country.

  57. One_Scot says:

    Just read on Twitter someone saying a FOI request should be sent to the BBC asking to revel how many complaints they had about the Panorama Corbyn programme. Nearly pissed myself.

    Looks like the rest of the UK are about to learn how the BBC operates.

  58. heedtracker says:

    CameronB Brodie says:
    13 September, 2015 at 5:05 pm
    heedtracker @ 4.21
    Wonโ€™t happen. Blair was only a puppet, draw to the side of the Dubya by his own personal greed and ambition.

    The greater issue is that it legally and morally should happen.

    Also JC said it could happen.

    These are the big tests for JC and Labour and they will all get behind him in a historic and spectacular display of New Old Labour unity and…splutters juice all over ipad:D

  59. thomaspotter2014 says:

    Maybe if BBC play a new programme called The Great British Fuck Off everything will go back to ‘normal’ with Corbyn and his mad supporters.

    Then again maybe not.

  60. Gerry says:

    CameronB Brodie says:
    13 September, 2015 at 5:05 pm
    heedtracker @ 4.21
    Wonโ€™t happen. Blair was only a puppet, draw to the side of the Dubya by his own personal greed and ambition. He was a perfect โ€˜usefull idiotโ€™, as he is posh and stupid, i.e. dangerous (OK, Blair is intelligent but that does not make him wise).

    His protectors / handlers are far more powerful than Westminster.

    Not at all. Unlike the US president, the UK prime minister is subject to international law in this circumstance. Blair understood this well when he chose to back GWs lies. This is why he pressed so hard for a 2nd resolution.
    Bottom line – JC said that he would apologise for the invasion. He should be pressed to do so ASAP. Make no mistake – Blair is FAR from untouchable.

  61. gus1940 says:

    It is generally accepted that the current situation – ( well – until yesterday) whereby we have the Blue Tories and the Red Tories is a result of them both being puppets of ther Fat Cats in The City.

    What nobody seems to realise is the fact that it suits our pals in Washington to have a system over here similar to their’s with 2 parties very similar who swop power every few years but continue to be enslaved to the Fat Cats who fund them and provide individuals with riches when they quit politics while remaining comfortably well ensconced up Washington’s backside as far as Foreign Policy is concerned.

    That, together with the fact that most of the media is controlled by extreme right wing fanatics explains why the London Political Establishment and Media are throwing all their toys out of the political pram.

    Don’t ignore the fact that the advent of Corbyn as Labour Leader, not forgetting the presence of our own 56 heroes, does not suit Washington’s agenda.

  62. louis.b.argyll says:



  63. CameronB Brodie says:

    Glad to be corrected.

  64. lumilumi says:


    I wrote a brilliant, wide-reaching, intelligent, funny etc. etc. comment but one of my female vanity long (natural) fingernails sent it into cyberoblivion.

    What I wanted to say is… Corbyn, NOT what the Establishment and their pet media want. This guy is actually giving voice to the “plebs”. He doesn’t understand that “British democracy” is all about seeming democracy that preserves the privileges of the monarcy, the aristocrats, and the modern equivalent = rich people.

    The green and pleasent land in England is good, lovely for the people who can afford it. Not so much for the poor. England is regressing to Victorian times, or even Jane Austen’s, and Scotland is dragged down with English social problems and bad solutions to them – because Scotland is part of the UK.

    O/T The propaganda outlet BBC has a poll of “Great British Battles”. I ticked Bannockburn, I suggest you all do. BBC will probably make a programme out of this. If we get Bannocburn in the top three, they’ll have to do it in their “Great British Show”. Right now “Battle of Britain” (WW II) and Hastings (1066) are tied for first, Bannockburn is 3rd.

  65. CameronB Brodie says:

    Got your tinfoil bunnet handy? Check out the Anglo/American Establishment. A weird marriage of monopoly capitalists and Fabian Socialists.

  66. Paula Rose says:

    Hi lumilumi have you or anyone else a link to that poll?

  67. Nuggets O'Pish says:

    O/T. And now for something completely similar!

    Re. Craig Murrayโ€™s article on the legal opinion justifying the Iraq war (link from WOS last week). When I read Daniel Bethlehemโ€™s memorandum to the House of Commons, I couldn’t help think that it had been inspired by Llap Goch, the secret Welsh art of self defence ! (Llap Goch was an invention by Monty Python, as a spoof on adverts for martial arts / bodybuilder courses) Compare:
    Here is the Daniel Bethlehem statement:
    ย โ€œIt must be right that states are able to act in self-defence in circumstances where there is evidence of further imminent attacks by terrorist groups, even if there is no specific evidence of where such an attack will take place or of the precise nature of the attack.โ€
    Here is the Monty Python description of Llap-Goch:
    โ€˜It is an ANCIENT Welsh ART based on a BRILLIANTLY simple IDEA, which is a SECRET. The best form of DEFENCE is ATTACK (Clausewitz) and the most VITAL element of ATTACK is SURPRISE (Oscar HAMMERstein). Therefore, the BEST way to protect yourself AGAINST any ASSAILANT is to ATTACK him before he attacks YOU… Or BETTER… BEFORE the THOUGHT of doing so has EVEN OCCURRED TO HIM!!! SO YOU MAY BE ABLE TO RENDER YOUR ASSAILANT UNCONSCIOUS BEFORE he is EVEN aware of your very existence!โ€™*
    It seems that the Pythons pushed the envelope one step further than Bethlehem, but I’m sure the hawks will rectify that. I do hope that any further reporting on this subject will refer to it as the Llap-Goch Doctrine. Chilcot please note.

    Love, Nuggets.

    *’The Brand New Monty Python Paperbok’ (Eyre Methuen) Sometime in the 70’s I think.

  68. HandandShrimp says:

    There is considerable attraction in a progressive alliance to tackle things like the House of Lords, Trident etc, and I do believe there is much we could agree with Corbyn about. However, I am not sure that things will be simple. I read somewhere that Umma is setting up some sort of centrist group so it may that there will be serious in-fighting in Labour and that there will be lots of abstentions or God forbid voting with the Tories on things like Trident renewal.

    The language being used by the Tories that Corbyn is a security threat would suggest that he is already on the GCHQ radar (as I am sure Nicola and many SNP politicians already are). The moment there is a genuine challenge to the existing order it is clear that we live in something less than a democracy.

  69. X_Sticks says:

    Another slightly O/T

    I see bbc news/24/Scotland are hammering the Nicola indyref2 story. The unstated byline that she is a liar as “she said” there wouldn’t be another indyref for a generation.

    I wondered how the bbc got the footage from the STV documentary that won’t be aired until tomorrow? The start of the establishment’s indyref2 project fear beginning?

  70. john king says:

    why dont you try pressing the bakc buttom Lumilumi, you find you can retrieve the post.

  71. CameronB Brodie says:

    Do people seriously think MI5 are not embedded in BBC Scotland and STV?

  72. lumilumi says:

    The Finnish MSM, our YLE (BBC-type national broadcasster) carried a story today. Headline “Scots to the polls again?”

    YLE also has stories about Jeremy Corbyn and how “left” he is – so mildly left, in Finland he’d be centre, maybe centre right. Har har.

    However, the UK pseudo-democracy needs a proper opposition party. Maybe in the 1920s, 1930s Labour was a true opposition party. Then it got sucked in into the Establishment. Labour Lords etc.

    The SNP will not take up appointments in the unelected, undemocratic House of Lords. Oh, well, they won’t be offered seats in the heart of the English… erm, British Establishment anyway.

  73. otherdemons says:

    Marcia says:
    McTernan should do what Tom Harris did yesterday and put on his twitter avatar that he is part of the 4.5% who voted for Kendall.

    I had to go and check my former MP’s latest Twitter updates after reading this and found this gem:
    “The only thing worse than Corbyn losing the next general election would be Corbyn winning the next general election”

    I don’t expect he’ll try to get into Holyrood as long as Corbyn leads Labour then?

  74. The Isolator says:

    The sham that has been the political circus played out by the British Labour Party in recent weeks should be treated with the appropriate degree of suspicion.

    Eyes on the prize folks,they are not to be trusted.To the Westminster 56 stay well clear,I,m sure you have been well warned.

  75. call me dave says:

    Sigh! Just caught a glimpse of Sturgeon on the news, long shot of her being interviewed, but no sound.

    The newsreader told us what she said… 2nd referendum triggers in manifesto…etc.

    My naive grand-daughter says,”Oh why can’t we just hear her Dave” (she’s a fan since meeting her in Glenrothes last year)

    You know she’s right…let’s hear her BBC… or just put up a caption on the screen saying ‘an actor read the words’ FGS!

    Oh and Jeremy Corbyn BAD and must modify his stance says lots of spokes-persons. ๐Ÿ™‚

  76. Gavin says:

    Link above.

    Have voted. Come on wingers, let’s all vote for Bannockburn and annoy the BBC!!!

  77. galamcennalath says:

    Paula Rose says:
    ” have you or anyone else a link to that poll?”

    Unfortunately, I think it will need a direct link to get the poll to work.

  78. call me dave says:

    @john king

    Thanks for the tip. Never knew that!

    Tom and Jerry news. ‘The insignificant seven’

    Defeated leadership rivals Yvette Cooper and Liz Kendall, shadow education secretary Tristram Hunt, shadow work and pensions secretary Rachel Reeves and shadow chancellor Chris Leslie, are among seven shadow cabinet resignations since Mr Corbyn’s election.

    Shabana Mahmood and Emma Reynolds have also quit as shadow chief secretary to the Treasury and shadow housing minister respectively.

  79. Black Douglas says:

    Link for the Battle poll

    Apologies for linking to Pravda but it was requested ๐Ÿ™‚

  80. liz says:

    @heedtracker – you might be amused that the prof of Slovenia is on Guardian CiF criticising the UK foreign policy regarding the middle east – hard to disagree,

    But why oh why was s/he so anti Scottish independence, we are entitled to ask!?

  81. Dave Hansell says:

    Al Stuart,

    That Huffington Post article is a reprint which was originally posted in August. I cannot swear to it but I think the original might well have been published from their comic/comedy section.

  82. Dave Hansell says:

    call me Dave,

    Angela Smith has also quit her Shadow Environment portfolio.

  83. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    Gavin at 7.07

    Done it. Get in everybody else

  84. CameronB Brodie says:

    Ah, Scottish and Israeli nationalism. The dichotomy British Labour can’t escape, as paty of the British Establishment, so they try to misrepresent it hoping the people simply won’t spot their twists. Hypocrites, especially Labour Friends of Israel!

    Wonder how Mr. Corbyn will square that particular circle?

  85. HandandShrimp says:

    On the battle polls I take issue with the history of Brunanburh. It most certainly was not brought about because the other Kings did not want to see an independent England (whether thye did or did not is unknown)

    It was brought about because Aethelstan styled himself as King of all the British Isles and expected the other Kings to pay tribute to him. Although it ended in a Saxon victory of sorts, Constantine and the other Kings returned home and the victory was at such a cost that Aethelstan’s power waned and he never tried to impose upon the Scots, Norse and Irish again – which obviously pleased the latter.

    It is important because it rather set in place that there was no one ruler of these isles.

  86. X-Sticks says:

    CameronB Brodie says:

    “Do people seriously think MI5 are not embedded in BBC Scotland and STV?”

    You having a dig at me CameronB Brodie? ๐Ÿ˜‰

    I have my own thoughts on how some things happen in the wonderfully weird world of britnattery, but I would rather just pose the questions and let folk make up their own minds.

    Aren’t our royal family wonderfully super-duper and they love us all so much and they do so much for charity and they keep the bogey man away and if you’re really, really good she may even give you a bauble or title. Worth every penny.

    Help! I’m suffering from bbcradioactive exposure!

  87. Alan Of Neilston says:

    The Labour Party all of a sudden have re-established their Roots? Do not be fooled. The Establishment will create Diversions, we have to remain focussed!!

  88. Wee Alex says:

    Let’s test the water.

    First private members bill to SNP should be on Trident or similar.

    Let’s find out how many Labour MP’s follow their leader.

  89. craig murray says:

    Slightly o/t, but does anybody have information on what Murphy and wee Dougie Alexander are doing for a living now? My money is on six figure salaries in CIA sponsored think tanks, but any hard info welcome.

  90. davidb says:

    Viz “a generation”. I read recently ( cannot say where – maybe even here ), that a political generation is defined in the Anglo Irish Agreement as being 7 years. The generation in question there being votes for Irish reunification. Did some google searching, and it does recur in relation to Irish unity votes, so I’m thinking my recollection is accurate.

    So I would not get too hung up on the generation game. It is defined by precedent and statute as 7 years. Fits the time frame nicely. After Gideon gets elected in 2020. Scotland clamouring to get out. 2021 would actually be a generation later. As defined by HMG. And its after 5 years, but before 10 years.

    Now how many years was it in that calculation of Unionist attrition by death until we have a demographic majority again?

  91. CameronB Brodie says:

    Can I suggest how Mr. Corbyn could deal with the mutineers? Katorga! Put them to good use and help HS2 come in on time and budget. Then they can be move on to develop the ‘Northern Powerhouse’.

    It’s all about England, eh Mr. Corbyn? Or would you not describe yourself as an English Socialist?

  92. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi John King @6.59pm.

    “why dont you try pressing the bakc buttom Lumilumi”

    Are you trying to perpluzzle our Finnish Winger by using your own made-up vocabulary?


  93. Iain More says:

    On the battles. I think most us will agree that the Romans, Saxons and then the Normans and Plantagenet’s were a thoroughly bad lot.

    The Brit Nat Brainwashing Corp just cant help being patronising about them though. I hope they the Brit Nats realise that England lost control of its immigration with Boudicca’s defeat.

    I voted for Bannockburn just to piss them off. That is one in the eye for them.

    I think the real battle that changed everything for the worse was the failure of a certain Celt to reduce Rome to a smoking ruin when he had the chance. Idiot took the bribe. Hey wait a minute a lot of idiots took the bribe last September – nothing changes it seems!

    Dont get me started on that Vercingotrix bloke either.

  94. CameronB Brodie says:

    I wasn’t meaning to have a dig, just missing dem damn beta-blockers*……nurse. ๐Ÿ˜‰

    * true story.

  95. scotsbob says:

    Voted for Bannockburn but more votes required

  96. msean says:

    Looked at that Brunaburgh listing,different perceptions of history abound. I read that although a defeat for everyone else it succeeded in checking an expansionist English king, a recurring problem in those times. A hollow victory.

    The description of Bannockburn is a bit off as well,I’m sure that Edward 2nd brought the biggest army to date to relieve Stirling castle that included lots of hardened campaigners, only to suffer a “setback”, which must be the new way to describe utter defeat. ๐Ÿ™‚

  97. mike cassidy says:

    Have they dronefucked Jeremy Corbyn yet?

  98. john king says:

    “Are you trying to perpluzzle our Finnish Winger by using your own made-up vocabulary?”

    I knew I buggered that up but guess what?
    I did exactly that (pressed the back button) to look and the post wasn’t there to check. ๐Ÿ™

  99. Gerry says:

    CameronB Brodie says:
    13 September, 2015 at 6:08 pm
    Glad to be corrected.
    I am fairly sure that Corbyn didn’t realise that when he undertook to apologise on behalf of labour for Iraq, that this potentially opens the door to Blair’s prosecution.
    Blair knows this and seemed to visibly age 10 years the day that Corbyn said he would apologise. I hope he makes good on this promise sooner rather than later.

  100. ahundredthidiot says:

    Tactics for dealing with indyref2

    Give Scotland’s FM the Gerry Adams TV voice treatment in a broken English accent, or

    Get her to prove she is not a witch

    …..beeb can make cheque available to ahundredthidiot

  101. Ian Brotherhood says:

    BBC ‘Battle’ poll currently:

    B O Britain: 29%
    B O Hastings 27%
    B O Bannockbuurn 13%

    None of the other options are even close, so let’s go for it –

  102. galamcennalath says:

    @HandandShrimp @7:53

    Indeed, I have noticed how Brunanburh is always described in a manner where England was saved for eternity from the encroaching and envious barbarians.

    I have always thought of it as the battle where English expansion was stopped and the separate identities of the other nations of these isles guaranteed.

  103. Gavin says:

    HandandShrimp says:
    On the battle polls I take issue with the history of Brunanburh. It most certainly was not brought about because the other Kings did not want to see an independent England (whether thye did or did not is unknown)

    Did you notice that when describing the Brunanburh battle they showed a picture of the Aberlemno Pictish stone potraying the battle of Dunnichen. A battle not even on the list ! Where do the BBC get there researchers from ?

  104. ahundredthidiot says:

    Craig Murray

    Wee Dougie is now my gimp. I keep him in the cellar and feed him once a day on fat free muesli.

    Shit, no……that was a dream I had.

    ……..but, if he is looking for employment…..unpaid mind…..

    I’d ruin him if he was

  105. CameronB Brodie says:

    I voted for Bannockburn ๐Ÿ™‚ though actually I’d plump for Hastings, as the English state did not exist until the Normans took control of ‘England’. In fact, England as we know it, did not exist until the Normans unified the ‘English’ kingdoms under feudalism (a relative new legal authority backed by the Pope).

    I may have read the wrong sources though, David Starkey?

  106. Tam Jardine says:

    The socialist in me is pleased for England that Corbyn has won at a canter. I think the good people of England are about to experience project fear on acid for the next few years as the right wing press and establishment attempts to secure conservative rule forever.

    It will probably galvanise his support, galvanise his opponents and they will learn a thing or two about how the UK works along the way. A strange time to be alive.

    Re the poll on battles: interesting ’cause’ behind Bannockburn. Stuart McHardy discusses this propoganda in his book ‘Scotland’s Future History’.

    ‘Scottish Independence’ apparently. We had our independence but had been invaded so I would have described it differently. The ‘Wars of Independence’ is a total misnomer. ‘Repelling invasion’ would have been more accurate I think.

    Iain More

    Would be interested to hear your take on Vercingetorix. I visited the battlefield ‘Gergovia?’ many years ago- quite a complex battle from what I have read. Amazing statue in Clermont Ferrand. Sorry… you said DON’T get me started.

    Anyway- to go even further off topic if that is possible, I have a very brief question for anyone who has read the letters pages of the herald today and knows anything about marine renewable technology.

    I read about marine lagoons being used for hydroelectric power and the amazing plans for (part of) Swansea Bay:

    My (perhaps ridiculously ignorant) question is- has this technology been considered for sea lochs? Or obsolete harbours? Both would seem ripe for using the same technology without having to go to the trouble of building an enormous man-made sea-wall.

    Anyway- as you were

  107. ahundredthidiot says:

    Gavin – on BBC researchers

    It’ll be the same ones who used Ilyushin 76 aircraft wreck pics on the day of MH17’s demise in their main 10 o clock news slot

    And I have the apology to prove it before anyone thinks I am a crazed conspiracy theorist! (Which of course, I am)

    BBC are slags

  108. Ian Brotherhood says:

    ‘Battle’ latest:

    Britain – 29%
    Hastings down 1% – 26%
    Bannockburn up 1% – 14%

  109. Jimbo says:

    I don’t expect Corbyn to win but would spend every minute taking the party back from him

    Corbyn was democratically elected leader of the Labour Party with 59.5% of the vote, 40% more than his nearest rival, but McTernan obviously thinks that the Labour Party is his to shape as he sees fit.

  110. Alan Mackintosh says:

    Re the battles, they’re saying that Brunanbuhr was 937 with Aethelstan agin the Scots,Irish and Norse. So who was Oengus II fighting in 832 in East Lothian as that was Aethelstan too. That was the battle which saw the saltire appearing in the sky giving an omen to the scots. (We won that one too…)

    Extra points awarded to whoever knows what the well known saying that Pope Martin V mentioned…

  111. handclapping says:

    I still think it should be Hastings. It meant English would become a world lingua franca.

    The Normans ladies were to posh to breast feed so English nurses spoke baby English to the aristocracy and when the aristocracy got the sign that they were never going to be French there was only the baby talk remnants of the language of the Angles available, stripped of grammar and declension.

    Yes English is an easy language as long as you only want to talk baby talk but to explain any concept clearly requires incredible prolixity or borrowing a word from another language. Given that many who post on here don’t have English as their first language it is amazing how few spats we’ve had through mistaking others use of the English language.

  112. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Britain – unchanged at 29%
    Hastings – unchanged at 26%
    Bannockburn UP 1% to 15% ๐Ÿ™‚

    It’s starting to kick-in – let’s get this properly viral, eh?

    Twitter like your life depends on it – ‘we really wanna see those fingers!’

  113. galamcennalath says:

    davidb says

    Now how many years was it in that calculation of Unionist attrition by death until we have a demographic majority again?

    In simple terms I think of it like this.

    The oldest voters are 75% NO, the youngest voters are 75% YES.

    Roughly, every year the oldest 2% of voters die, to be replaced by a 2% of new voters.

    Therefore 1.5% NOs and 0.5% YESs disappear, and 1.5% YESs and 0.5% NOs appear.

    A close to 2% swing to Yes, per annum?

    Five years for complete turn around, excluding all other influences?

  114. Lollysmum says:

    Voted-Bannockburn now at 14% Says the result will be posted online when it closes but no indication when that might be.

    When they get the ‘right’ result maybe? Oh yes, I am very definitely a cynic ๐Ÿ˜‰

  115. Effijy says:


    Did you notice that when describing the Brunanburh battle they showed a picture of the Aberlemno Pictish stone potraying the battle of Dunnichen. A battle not even on the list ! Where do the BBC get there researchers from ?

    They don’t use researchers, investigative journalists, or the truth, if it can be avoided!

  116. JLT says:

    To be honest, the whole ‘let’s vote for the best ever battle that Britain ever had …like forever ever!’

    What a load of right-wing utter nonsense that only the BBC could come up with. It’s almost as if they lost the ‘battle of Corbyn’, so let’s roll out some other battles, and all vote for the ‘Battle of Britain’ because that’s our favourite down here in the South-East (seriously …what utter nonsense).

    And even then, some of the battles they have chosen seem to go against the grain …as in …they’re English, and not British at all.

    Boudica – Not a British affair at all. Fought in the Roman occupied South East of England between the Celtic tribes of the S.E. against the growing dominant Roman invasion.

    Brunanburh – (??? – the wording of this is shocking) As others have said, it was to stop the Angles from conquering Britain. The Celts-Norse might have lost, but we ended the Angles ambitions also.

    Hastings – ‘The Last Invasion’ (EH!!!! – Naw! Wrong! …that wasn’t the last invasion. What was William of Orange’s 15,000 Dutch troops doing when they crossed the channel in 1688 ????)

    Bannockburn (surprised they included this one. They lost!)

    From this point, yep …they may be termed ‘British’, but all were pretty much fought in England (apart from the Battle of the Boyne (we all know who) and the Battle of Dunbar (Cromwell)).

    And then we have the won that they love. They can’t help themselves. They just have to do it. This is the real reason for the poll. This is what the poll is really about. Just a reminder of what happened in 1940. Yeah, Britain won that battle, but if it wasn’t for Hitler’s mistake of attacking Russia, then Britain was going nowhere with this war. Attrition would have won the day for Hitler. Thank Hitler for invading Russia because if he hadn’t, then chances are, 1941 would have been a pretty bad year for Britain.

    So (beginning to calm down now)…as others have commented. Bannockburn gets the vote ….just to annoy the BBC.

  117. john king says:

    “but McTernan obviously thinks that the Labour Party is his to shape as he sees fit.”

    Lets remind ourselves, what was McTernans majority again?
    oh no of course he was elected by noone has no mandate and certainly represents noone but himself, best ignored eh?

  118. HandandShrimp says:

    Did you notice that when describing the Brunanburh battle they showed a picture of the Aberlemno Pictish stone potraying the battle of Dunnichen. A battle not even on the list ! Where do the BBC get there researchers from ?

    Ironically another battle that stopped another expansionist Saxon King in his tracks.

  119. Lollysmum says:

    Craig Murray at 8.08pm
    A few weeks ago I remember seeing something online saying they were both backpacking in the Andes or some such. Must admit I couldn’t really picture it happening somehow seeing as both were entirely comfortable with the luxurious lifestyles of WM. Cover story maybe?

    Any CIA outposts there ๐Ÿ˜‰

  120. Ian Brotherhood says:

    This is exciting!

    Battle of Britain has dropped one, Bannockburn now up to 16%

    Get in there!!

  121. Fireproofjim says:

    Tam Jardine
    The Rance Tidal Power Barrage in Brittany has been operating for over forty years in France.
    France has little or no oil and this is a great source of clean power.
    I don’t know why we couldn’t do the same in Scotland. There are many deep narrow sea lochs, but it does involve a big concrete dam across the tidal stream. Not very pretty but perhaps less obtrusive than wind power.
    However France relies for eighty per cent of its power on nuclear power stations. No anti-nuclear protests there, and they have the cheapest power in Europe.

  122. Harry McAye says:

    Wee Dougie Alexander was spotted busking outside Queen Street station, singing “I’ve Been to Paradise (But I’ve Never Been to Me). His cap was bulging, apparently.

  123. Lollysmum says:

    Just been back to BBC link to test a theory. It told me I’d already voted so I used Firefox Remove Cookies from Site button & came back to Wings. Followed the link again & hey presto I got a 2nd vote. Bannockburn 16%

    Get voting guys & gals.

  124. heedtracker says:

    liz says:
    13 September, 2015 at 7:20 pm
    @heedtracker โ€“ you might be amused that the prof of Slovenia is on Guardian CiF criticising the UK foreign policy regarding the middle east โ€“ hard to disagree,

    The good Prof has eased of his YES voters are fascists, Scots are deluded maniacs sort of thing but its got nothing whatsoever to do with this exciting announcement-

  125. One_Scot says:

    From what I have read, they are going to Neuralise Corbyn and turn him into one of them.

    Aw well, as you were everyone.

  126. Hoss Mackintosh says:

    Hi Ally,

    I think Oengus was fighting the Northumbrians and not one of the Athelstanes as they were from Kent and Wessex. Perhaps Athelstaneford is just called after King Althelstane -the later one?

    Pope Martin V ?

    Ah – The Battle of Bauge – now there was a battle. Why is that not on the list ?

  127. Robert Peffers says:

    @Nuggets O’Pish says: 13 September, 2015 at 6:44 pm:

    ” … I couldnโ€™t help think that it had been inspired by Llap Goch, the secret Welsh art of self defence !”

    Brilliant stuff Nugget’s.

    Mind you the way things were going was signalled by the Establishment when it began lifting anyone from the streets that they claimed to be a terrorist. They refused to state what their evidence was on the grounds of, “National Security”. They refused to arrest or try their victims, again on the grounds of national security.

    Many, including myself, warned then that the thin edge of a very large wedge had just been introduced to the human rights of the people of the United Kingdom. So it has proven for now we have a totally unacceptable number of untried, un-arrested members of the public being shot and killed by, particularly, the Metropolitan Police force.

    We had government sanctioned murders in Northern Ireland and now they have the scientific capability to send in drones anywhere in the World to take out anyone they class as a terrorist suspect. No arrest, no evidence, no trial and only their word for it the people killed are even who they claim they are. As far as I am concerned the whole UK government are criminals in both UK and international war crimes definitions. We have no democracy, no real freedoms and no rights whatsoever.

    What is more it is only going to get worse under Westminster Establishment rule. If our last attempts at ending this Westminster misrule by democratic means are stymied much longer there will be armed uprisings in the UK.

    History, ancient and modern, teaches that downtrodden people reach a stage where they cannot take any more from their rulers and they would rather die fighting back than slowly be tortured to death.

  128. Tam Jardine says:

    Ian Brotherhood

    Don’t get too excited Ian. To spike the nationalist surge the BBC have just added Flodden as a late entry

  129. One_Scot says:

    You could not make it up, people voted for him because of his values and now the Establishment will Doctor Who him into Tony Blair.

    Don’t you just love the British regime.

  130. dakk says:

    Lolliesmum 9.17

    ‘Backpacking in the Andes or some such’

    Wee Dougie and Murphy are probably doing the Che Guavara Trail pretending to be the Socialist Revolutionaries they imagined themselves to be.So sad ๐Ÿ™‚

  131. msean says:

    You must mean Athelstaneford,named after a slain English king.

  132. heraldnomore says:

    17%. And they said Corbyn couldn’t win…

  133. Betty Boop says:

    @ Craig Murray, 8:08pm

    Slightly o/t, but does anybody have information on what Murphy and wee Dougie Alexander are doing for a living now? My money is on six figure salaries in CIA sponsored think tanks, but any hard info welcome.

    No hard info Craig, but, I reckon they are both toiling for Brian Wilson making Harris Tweed or he could have introduced them to some of those arms companies with whom he and the Lord of Cataclysm are so chummy. Can’t imagine they have any info the CIA haven’t already given them.

  134. Ian Brotherhood says:

    B/burn now up to 17%…


  135. Jim Thomson says:

    @Ian Brotherhood re battle vote.

    I happened to notice that I could vote again by using another browser … just saying.

    I’ll try to remember to tell the BBC that they need to deduct one vote for me. I might take a few days to get round to it though. Kinda busy with other things right now.

    I wonder if my Firefox browser also works on Windows 10 , hmmm, let me see …

  136. Ian Brotherhood says:

    In the last I hour 20 minutes, the ‘Battle’ stats are:

    Britain dropped 1%
    Hastings dropped 2%
    Bannockburn gained 4%

    Okay, we’re just having a bit of a lark, but this stuff is important if for no other reason than it demonstrates we can, and DO have a measurable effect when we act together.

    Let’s ram the point home – first, we ‘take’ Hastings!

  137. crazycat says:

    When I first tried to vote on the battles, I was told “voting is not supported on this device”, despite the fact that I have previously (though not recently) used said device to comment on BBC articles.

    Logging in with the username I had concocted for those comments miraculously allowed voting to be “supported” on the very same “device”.

    Meanwhile, back here, although I can read the comments, all the commenters’ names are blank spaces. Sometimes I recognize the avatar and/or posting style, but other times I haven’t a clue who is writing.

    I hope this will revert to normal, though I am still having to sign in each time I comment, and there is a delay, so I am not optimistic.

  138. Tinto Chiel says:

    @Hoss Mackintosh.

    C’mon, Hoss, we both know the gemme’s a Baugรฉ.

    Plus รงa change’n’at!

  139. Jim Thomson says:

    @Tam jardine re tidal power.

    There was a test installation on (I think) Tiree – but now not sure if that was wave or tidal – anyhow, The whole thing relies on your basic 1st and 2nd year (high school, not uni) physics stuff.

    If you’re going to be at the Embra do later this month, I can sit you down with a few reams of paper and a pencil, and send you to sleep with the calculations ๐Ÿ˜‰


  140. Stoker says:

    It’s awe ah pile o pish bit gave wan furr 1314 anyhoo.
    So did the boss, she beat me to it, the wench can make her ain tea!

  141. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Battle stats at 22.11:

    Britain – down one, at 27%
    Hastings – same, at 25%
    Bannockburn – up one, at 18%

  142. Jim Thomson says:

    @Ian Brotherhood

    did you know that the chrome browser has an “incognito” mode that you can access by pressing shift+ctrl+n ?

    Seems it doesn’t store cookies ๐Ÿ˜‰

  143. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Battle stats at 22.14:

    Britain – same, at 27%
    Hastings – same, at 25%
    Bannockburn, up one, at 19%

  144. lumilumi says:

    Update on the BBC “Great British Battles” thingy.

    Battle of Britain 27% (WW II, RAF)
    Hastings 25% (Norman conquest of England, 1066)
    Bannockburn 18% (Scottish independence, 1314)
    Naseby 7% (English civil war, 1645)
    Armada 7% (The Spanish Armada against England 1588)

    The Battle of Boyne, so beloved by Orangemen, is down on 4%, level with Bosworth (Richard III).

    The piece is written from a very English perspective. From the blurb for the battle of Brunanburh, 937:
    King ร†thelstan faced an allied force that included at least five foreign kings, including those of Dublin, Alba, and Strathclyde โ€” an alliance whose united purpose was to destroy the Anglo-Saxon kingdom that would become England.

    Eh? Foreigners in the British isles even in 937. People who actually were there before the Anglo-Saxons. The Anglo-Saxons, supplemented by the Normans, were and are nothing if not arrogant!

    Also, the blurb for the Battle of Boyne says it resulted in “Confirmation of Protestant, democratic government”, and quite blithely says a couple of lines later, “Catholics were subsequently subjected to penal laws that long denied them political rights”. Democracy, English/UK style, eh?

    I think it’s rather expected that the 1940 “Battle of Britain” leads the board. Some people still have firsthand and lots of people secondhand memories of it, and it touched the masses in a way no medieval battle did.

    Anyway, go over to vote for Bannockburn, the BBC will have to recognise that battle in ther forthcoming “Great British” programme. ๐Ÿ˜€

  145. Gary45% says:

    Any trolls or unionists who read this site.
    Tell your masters, as far as the “once in a generation/lifetime” vote for independence is concerned.
    How long is a lifetime/generation?
    1 year, 10 years, 45 years? Nobody knows.
    You lot promised Scotland THE VOW.
    Where is it, when will it be delivered?
    The beauty of the Scots, we never forget.

    It’s oor spacehopper and yur no getting tae bounce oan it.
    But we might let you look at it when the VOW is delivered, but only a look, yur no getting a shot.

  146. uno mas says:

    @ Call Me Dave 7.07
    I have been thinking along the same lines recently re the total black out of the SNP by the MSM.

    They havenยดt said the words yet but undoubtedly their plan is to “Deny them the oxygen of publicity” and itยดs only a matter of time before “The words of Nicola Sturgeon will be spoken by an actress” will be heard on our tv screens.

    To which what do you think about us running a wee poll to find out who would be our preferred choice of actress.

    Iยดm going with Scarlett Johannsen.

    Any other takers?

  147. Jimbo says:

    @ Alan Mackintosh:

    Re the Battle of Bauge, 22 March, 1421.

    “Verily, the Scots are well-known as an antidote to the English.”

    That battle was considered the turning point for the French in what English historians call the ‘Hundred Years War’.

  148. Midgehunter says:

    I voted.

    Bannockburn is now 19% – or it was 20 min. ago when I posted this. ;-(

  149. john king says:

    Aint having more than one browser the dogs bollocks? ๐Ÿ™‚

    Bannockburn 19%

  150. Gary45% says:

    like many other misgivings of the MSM, they have not worked out that,by ignoring the Scottish electorate only makes the SNP stronger.
    They are too dim to realise this.
    Tick Tock.

  151. JLT says:

    Actually …for multiple shots at the BBC ‘British Battles’, use your phone, iPad and PC. Get everyone in the household to do the same. Really flood the BBC poll LOL

  152. CameronB Brodie says:

    Barbara Windsor?

  153. Ian Brotherhood says:

    At 8.30 this evening Bannockburn was 14 percentiles behind Hastings.

    Two hours later, ‘we’ are now 5% behind…

    Britain – 27%
    Hastings – 24%
    Bannockburn – 19%

  154. john king says:

    Bannockburn 20%
    Aa need tae go tae bed. that’s twenty votes I managed though. ๐Ÿ™‚

  155. Ian Brotherhood says:

    20% ๐Ÿ™‚

    ‘Ramming speeeeeeeed!

  156. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Come on Rev, we know you’re watching the kick-ba, but even a wee toty Tweet to your 44,000 followers and we could take Hastings!

    (Where’s me woad…)

  157. DerekM says:

    haha yea Rev thats a right collection of eejits you have got yourself their lol

    Oh come on guys do you really think the BBC are going to show anything other than the Battle of Britain regardless of a poll lol

    Its just an excuse to repeat all their BoB footage they have made since the actual battle,the strange thing is they do not usually need an excuse to show it.

  158. Robert Peffers says:

    @Tam Jardine says: 13 September, 2015 at 8:48 pm:

    ” … My (perhaps ridiculously ignorant) question is- has this technology been considered for sea lochs? Or obsolete harbours? Both would seem ripe for using the same technology without having to go to the trouble of building an enormous man-made sea-wall.”

    Ach! Tam, way back in the early 1950’s I was an apprentice and we had lectures and debates on much of what is happening today. Here’s the thing, though. Scotland has a unique resource that runs 24/7/365. It is the cold and warm sea currents that runs in counter directions around much of Scotland’s shores.

    The cold sea currents from the polar regions flows round parts of Scotland, over the Atlantic and into the hotter oceans on the other side of the World. It warms up and then, as water flowing out must be replacer, it begins its journey back across the Atlantic as The Gulf Stream. This is why there are semi-tropical botanic gardens at Inverewe and the Logan Gardens in Galloway.

    So there is this constant current of cold water in one direction and one of hotter water flowing in the other direction that could be used to provide electricity. In fact there are, (successful so far), several trials going on as we speak.

    In the 50s we also debated how to design generators that could utilise the water flowing in such as the River Forth and others that could also take advantage of the tidal flow in firths and bays.

    For example a tidal water turbine need not have lots of infrastructure. A turbine has two sides and you must only supple force to one side to turn the generator.

    So you must block off one side of the turbine blades to allow the tide to turn the machine. However, tide flows in both directions as it ebbs and flows. The solution we came up with was a tidal operated gate system that, much like a weather vane, turns the shield to the side of the turbine depending upon the direction of tidal flow and you have a 24/7/365 generator that needs neither fuel nor the need to fetch fuel to the turbine.

    The tide, like the wind, brings its power to you for free but the wind doesn’t do it 24/7/365.

    Now that was us debating this long before the general public even knew what electronics or computers were.

  159. Tackety Beets says:

    Bannock burn 1314 voting .

    For those on iPad go to settings , scroll down left column and select Safari then Look to options on Right ” clear history & Web data” and do so .

    I have fired in a good puckle votes tonight , it’s now on 20% on posting .

    Work PC will get a bit of abuse @ Lunch this week.

    Heee heeee !

  160. lumilumi says:

    About the “Great British Battles”. I realise I’m a bit naive in being cheery about Bannockburn being third on 20% (Battle of Britain 1940 27%, Hastings 1066 24%)

    The BBC will portray it as brave, poor English soliders, victims of vicious, murderous Scots. Another chance to bash those dastardly Scots. Especially if they get ideas above their station, wanting more devolution, democracy or – gasp – independence! That just does not fit with the BBC view of Scotland. Here, have a haggis and move along.

  161. uno mas says:

    @CameronB Brodie 10.33

    Barbara Windsor?

    Excellent choice Mr Brodie and funny you should choose her as a friend just suggested Hattie Chaques.

    Incidentally It wouldnยดt need to be a male voice I suppose.

  162. Lollysmum says:

    Bannockburn 21% at 11.59
    Hastings 24%

  163. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Battle stats at 23.00:

    Britain – same, at 27%
    Hastings – same, at 24%
    Bannockburn – up one, at 21%

  164. CameronB Brodie says:

    I’ve had two long-term relationships with Germans, both of whome just scratched their heads and laughed about all the BoB stuff.

    Than again, a friend of one was run out of town by an anti-German hate campaign headed by the Sun, who blamed her for goading a Holocaust survivor in to committing suicide. Personal abuse, damage to property and such. I’m pretty sure she ended up winning compensation.

    English/British jingoism is DANGEROUS

  165. Ian Brotherhood says:


    Britain – down one, at 26%
    Hastings – same, at 24%
    Bannockburn – same, at 21%

    Whoever’s in charge of deciding when this thing’s to be shut down must be touching cloth… ๐Ÿ™‚

  166. Ken MacColl says:

    Latest Shadow Cabinet recruit is Lord Charlie Faulkener.

    Is this the cutting edge of the new dawn?

  167. Jim Thomson says:

    That “incognito” mode on Chrome (ctrl+shift+n) is quite helpful.

    Especially with

  168. Lollysmum says:

    B at 26%
    Bannockburn still at 21% at 00.05am

  169. call me dave says:

    @uno mas

    Scarlett Johannsen. ๐Ÿ™‚

    Meanwhile Tom and Jerry are selecting their shadow cabinet.

    Corbyn win splits Labour and makes independence only alternative to Tories.

    Naturally as a Hill of Beath born Fifer I only voted once but it will make no difference the chosen programme is ‘in the can’ already and Bannockburn… ffssssttt…in the bucket!

    ๐Ÿ™‚ But it is good fun to see the numbers change.

  170. Tam Jardine says:

    Jim Thomson (& Cadogan Enright)

    Aye- will see you there. You can try and explain it to me!

    The Irish project sounds ambitious. I am not sure where the extension to the Cruachan storage facility is- but check out what the Russians are planning:

    87GW capacity?

    With all the doom and gloom about the oil price and the implications for the fund we need to establish to hand on to future generations after we are free of the dead hand of WM, I have been dwelling on this.

    It firstly struck me that surely instead of trying to accumulate vast sums like the Norwegians and investing should we not be stockpiling oil when the price is low either at a government level or as a bank the people can invest in. It ain’t going to stay low for ever… a finite resource can’t. The Chinese are doing so I believe.

    The other thing I have been thinking about is a big fuck off tidal project (or a number of smaller projects) could be the alternative oil fund we could all put into- Scottish Government and Scottish people in partnership. Rance took 20 years to pay for itself- so some kind of long term green energy bond?

    Sorry for digressing on this thread- I was just blown away by the simplicity of the Swansea scheme and can’t help thinking we need to plan for the post indy energy future starting now.

    Westminster are strangling green investment in Scotland as they know energy is a strength for us and a weakness for them so we need to look to ourselves up here to plan for the future.

    I just think the ‘oil fund’ may need to become instead a national energy investment partnership to bring future returns and create enough energy to meet our needs and export for the next hundred years plus.

  171. CameronB Brodie says:

    uno mas
    Can Hattie Chaques giggle uncontrollably in Cockney? ๐Ÿ™‚

  172. Tackety Beets says:

    Robert Peffers

    Ref Hydro Power
    In Aberdeenshire the Don had a mini dam with concrete slope on the down water side or with Salmon leaps at side ,they were placed every few miles. Every one was used to run Hydro Power for the local area. I think they operated up to early 60’s but gradually they came to a halt as the area were encouraged to join the ” National Grid”

    The infrastructure is still there , I often wonder if those involved were truly advised correctly.
    I wonder if Billy Connolly realised their potential on his stretch.

    We both know the simplicity & reliability ( apart from bearings) these turbines would run almost indefinitley. For me they are a fantastic item to invest in.

    Anyone know if our Hydro Dams , Pitlochry etc are also penalised via connection charges ?

  173. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @ 23.18 –

    Britain – same, at 26%
    Hastings – same, at 24%
    Bannockburn – up one, at 22%

    For anyone just joining us, the stats, at 8.30 this evening, were:

    Britain – 29%
    Hastings – 27%
    Bannockburn – 13%

    There’s no telling when the poll will be shut, so do what ye can, and do it now:

  174. call me dave says:


    I couldn’t see the % so I pressed the Bannockburn button again to see the values. You’re right only 3% in it now.

    Maybe I’ve voted twice…Halo gone… ๐Ÿ™

  175. Cadogan Enright says:

    @Tam Jardine and Robert Peffers

    Currently undergoing 1/4 scale test in my constituency before deployment in Gulf Stream and anti-clockwise current around Ireland

    half a kilometer from and being expanded to 20MW under new owners

    and testing this

  176. Ian Brotherhood says:

    More action, at 11.23 –

    Britain – same, at 26%
    Hastings – down one, at 23%
    Bannockburn – same, at 22%

  177. Cadogan Enright says:

    @Tam Jardine at 11.10

    Russians looking at my constituency too, ? ? ?? ?????????? ??.

  178. Lollysmum says:

    B at 26%
    Hastings at 24%
    Bannockburn at 22% at 23.28pm

    Last post had wrong time-should have been 11.05pm

  179. gordoz says:

    Pretty sure that’s things back to normal in the ‘Not New Labour party’ – ‘Back to the future’ parody ?

    Corbyn appoints a lord to Shadow Cabinet. (Has Charlie Falconer ever been elected )?

    Does this not make him a supporter of the HoL ?

    1 day in post and principles badly holed already. (Tut,Tut)

  180. Lollysmum says:

    Bannockburn at 23%
    Hastings 23% at 11.30

  181. Tackety Beets says:

    Hastings & Bannockburn = @ 23%

    Keep er chappin folks ,


  182. Paula Rose says:

    ‘Ere my Darlin’s wots all this tolk abaht Barbara Windsor – yor ‘aving a larf ain’t cha (giggle).

  183. dakk says:

    ‘I have been thinking about a big fuck off tidal project’

    Westminster invests ยฃ1 bn in Swansea Bay tidal project and Scotland gets ยฃ0.5 bn first instalment of Trident spending foisted on us.

    Trolling the Scots or what ?

  184. Flying Scotsman says:

    @ uno massive
    If we really wanted to screw with their minds, we should have wee eck doin the voice over.

  185. Tackety Beets says:

    Me @ 10.57 Stupid Me !

    Ref iPad users.

    I meant to add a wee warning on above post .

    You will probably have to login with passwords on all your usual sites if you remove Data . SORRY .

  186. CameronB Brodie says:

    Re. the BBC poll – Bannockburn and Hastings neck and neck @ 23:41pm.

    I blame Chinese hackers. ๐Ÿ˜‰

  187. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @23.39 –

    Britain – same, at 26%
    Hastings – same, at 23%
    Bannockburn, up one, at 23%

    Keep biting at their ankles, and pulling the wee hairs at the back of their knees!!

    Once we’re done with Hastings, we take to the skies!

  188. Flying Scotsman says:

    Uno mas that should be.
    Damn autocorrect,there’s always one that gets past me.

  189. Lollysmum says:

    Call me Dave

    Your eyesight is getting worse as the hours go by! I like your style ๐Ÿ™‚

  190. CameronB Brodie says:

    Paula Rose
    We’re making a list of possible voice-over candidates for the FM. ๐Ÿ˜‰


  191. Cadogan Enright says:

    BoB at 26% with Bannockburn neck and neck with Hastings at 23%

    IScot at ยฃ23,768 GBP

  192. Lollysmum says:

    Bannockburn 24%
    Hastings 23%
    B 26%

    This is doable!Now for 26%

  193. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @23.47 –

    Britain – same, at 26%
    Hastings – same, at 23%
    Bannockburn – up one, at 24%

    Oooh-er, what ‘ave we done?

  194. Capella says:

    Ha ha! Bannockburn now overtakes Hastings with 24% challenging Britain at 26%.

    Vote here

  195. Ian Brotherhood says:

    What’s the betting the BBC will pull the ‘battle’ poll at midnight?!

  196. Jimbo says:

    @23.59 hrs

    BoB and Bannockburn neck and neck at 25%

  197. Lollysmum says:

    Bannockburn 25%
    Hastings 23%

    Keep it going

  198. Lollysmum says:

    B of B 25%
    Bannockburn 25%
    Hastings 22%

  199. Bob W says:

    The battle is neck and neck @ 11:58. ๐Ÿ™‚

  200. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Bang on midnight –

    Britain – down one, at 25%
    Hastings – down one, at 22%
    Bannockburn – up one, at 25%

  201. Lollysmum says:

    Bannockburn 26%
    B o B 25%

    Hastings way back in the dust!

  202. Tackety Beets says:

    That’s it We are in the lead .

    Night all .

  203. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @12.05 –

    Britain – same, at 25%
    Hastings – same, at 22%
    Bannockburn – up one, at 26%

    ๐Ÿ˜ฎ ๐Ÿ™‚ ๐Ÿ™‚ ๐Ÿ™‚ ๐Ÿ™‚ ๐Ÿ™‚ ๐Ÿ™‚ ๐Ÿ™‚ ๐Ÿ™‚

    Aw bless, wee clueless BBCers, ye should’ve shut it down at midnight after all eh?

    And now, if ye start fannying about with the stats when we’ve been tracking them all evening, it’d be a tad obvious, right?

    Fucking amateurs


  204. dakk says:


  205. Meindevon says:

    Ooh I just voted and Bannockburn now 26% and BoB 25%!

  206. smithie says:

    The BBC vote runs until 18th September.

  207. Ronnie says:

    Bannockburn in the lead on 27%.

  208. Lollysmum says:

    Bannockburn 27%

  209. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Okay, now it’s getting embarrassing…

    Britain – same, at 25%
    Hastings – same, at 22%
    Bannockburn – up one, at 27%

    Wee reminder of the question the poll was asking:

    ‘The British Isles have seen countless battles, campaigns and wars. But which one affected us the most?

    This year is rich with the anniversaries of significant battles – Waterloo, Gallipoli and Agincourt.

    But during the past 2,000 years, the British Isles has been riven by conflict, being remembered with the 75th anniversary of the Battle of Britain, the recent reburial of Richard III and the upcoming 950th anniversary of Hastings.

    So which is the most important battle ever fought here? A clash of arms that produced not only a winner and a loser but perhaps changed everything that came after?

    Read the shortlist and cast your vote at the bottom of the page.’

    Aye, okay. We just did.

    Next ‘question’?

  210. Anne Bruce says:


    The EBC battle vote goes on until 11.59 on 18 September.

    Currently Bannockburn at 27% @ 00.20.

  211. Paula Rose says:

    re that wee poll, we need to get all our disgruntled pals in the rest of the UK to join the party – get busy.

  212. Lollysmum says:

    Great to have a bit of fun at BBC’s expense just for a change ๐Ÿ˜‰

  213. Jimbo says:


    Bannockburn at 27% – Battle of Britain at 24%

    Geritupye BBC

  214. FrenchAndy says:

    BBC ‘battle’ update….00.17…

    B’burn 27%
    Britain 25%
    Hastings 22%

    Possibly childish, possibly anti-imperialist and important (in a small way) but well done Wingers. You/we are a genuine force then. Heids might roll in BBC London for this.

  215. Cadogan Enright says:

    BoB takes a dive = Bannockburn soars ahead

    IScot ยฃ23,853

  216. heedtracker says:

    On subject of big UKOK wars, JC gave Lord Falconer Justice Sec job, the great democrat that he is. So Bomber Blair probably wont be going to the Hague war crimes court then. Strange crew Labour.

  217. Lollysmum says:

    Bannockburn at 28%

  218. Flower of Scotland says:

    Bannockburn 28%.

    Great fun. Ha,ha!

  219. dakk says:

    Paula Rose

    ‘get all our pals in rest of UK to join party’

    As Cameron B alluded to,get our friends in the Confucius Society to help out.

  220. DerekM says:

    lol i can just see the BBC on the phone to GCHQ saying help us those evil cybernats are trolling our poll.

    At least we will have given them some work tomorrow,Scottish cybernats keeping GCHQ in jobs.

    Dont say we arnt good to you spooks lmao

  221. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @smithie (12.15) –

    And there’s the rub…

    We can get ‘Bannockburn’ to 40%, but it won’t make a jot of difference, because they will annul this poll, using the strangely prescient ‘terms and conditions’ in the link you provided.

    It’s just a matter of when.

    Will they let it go to Sep 18th? Or will they do a Carmichael, and call the whole thing off?

    In any event, the blame will be laid on what are fast becoming the ‘usual suspects’ i.e. fanatical CyberNats.

    Hey, who cares? We’ve given them another red-neck, and it’s no more than they deserved.

    There is, now, a rather sad predictability about BBC behaviour. We should express solidarity for the many decent folk who continue to work for the ‘national broadcaster’, but it cuts both ways – the bias and belittling has gone on too long. The way in which this ham-fisted propaganda exercise has backfired – and so quickly! – should give food for thought to many, inside the BBC and beyond.

    Yeah, we took this on as a bit of a ‘joke’, and no real harm has been done, but those responsible for planning and launching such projects should realise that they are not playing with fools – the loaded deck they always bring to the table will only carry them so far.

  222. Chic McGregor says:

    Turning point for Corbyn was Mairi Black’s maiden speech. JMO.

  223. Lollysmum says:

    29% Bannockburn

    Ian Brotherhood-yes but at least we’ll know they’ve fixed the result ๐Ÿ™‚

  224. Alan Mackintosh says:

    Bannockburn 29% BoB 24% @ 1am

    Well done Jimbo, Pope Martin V was wise

  225. Ian Brotherhood says:

    It’s all ‘our fault’. Rev wasn’t involved in this.

    A wee reminder for those who are catching-up –

    The BBC ‘Battle’ poll was flagged-up on this thread, and at 8.30 the stats were:

    Battle of Britain – 29%
    Battle of Hastings – 27%
    Battle of Bannockburn – 13%

    Right now:

    Britain – 24%
    Hastings – 21%
    Bannockburn – 29%

    Don’t take no Professor Curtice to work out that some serious shift happened there, right?

    Four days to go though…IF they keep it open.

    This is one we should watch very closely – they cannot afford to lose face, and will do everything to avoid it.

    They’ve played a real stinker here – let’s not give them the chance to re-present it as anything but the complete howler it is.

  226. Iain More says:

    They wont do Bannockburn. What and have BBCs fav Scot baiter Starkey admit that the outnumbered poor wee thick sweaties gubbed a brutal feudal military dictatorship. Just my peculiar take on it.

    I can just see snarky Starkey foaming at the mouth.

  227. Michael McCabe says:

    Just voted Bannockburn and it is in the lead. yahoo.

  228. call me dave says:

    Well you pop over to the tennis for the final and the BBC poll trashed…LOL!

    Can’t believe it but, as they say, we’re in the UK for now it’s our ยฃ and BBC too, we’re entitled to take an interest in our shared history. ๐Ÿ™‚

    The link will disappear like the vow! Well done all.

    Oh anyone for tennis it’s been delayed by 2 hours.–Arhtur-Ashe-Stadium-/

  229. call me dave says:

    Prof Curtis photo alert. ๐Ÿ™‚

    He’s dropping hints that the ‘new powers’ might be better as the subject of a referendum.

    I can see it could by-pass the SG but on the otherhand it’s a referendum init and could go to the advantage of the ‘YES’ folk… if they were to vote NO to the new powers.

    How strange!

  230. lumilumi says:

    ha ha, Bannockburn is now 28%, “Battle of Britain” (WW II) 24% and Hastings 21%.

    The BBC will soon “recalibrate” (=rig) the vote and make the programme they’d planned. Sycophantic UKOK BritNat WW II Battle of Britain guff.

    Oh deary deary if they have to mention Bannockburn. But they’ll get around it. Bannockburn, where nasty Scotnats murdered good, honest Englishmen. Before the Scots saw the light and realised they’d better be ruled from Westminster and relegate their country to a region of greater England.

    It was Scottish “nobles” who sold their country for places in London society. No wonder ordinary Scots to this day hold no truck with “nobility”.

    The battle I’d choose isn’t on the BBC anglocentric list.

    Dunnichen (AD 685) halted and ended Northumbrian Angles’ assaults on Scotland. But that isn’t a “Great British Battle”, because “Great British” means “English”. The Scots, Welsh and Irish should feel lucky to be dominated by such a master race.

    Harsh words, but that’s what “Britishness” seems to mean nowadays. You Scots might think you’re Brits but you aren’t. Not if the English have a word in defining it. You’re insurgent, stupid Scots and should know your place!

  231. Ian Brotherhood says:


    Britain – 24%
    Hastings – 21%
    Bannockburn – 30%


  232. Paula Rose says:

    @ Ian Brotherhood 6:21 actually and not even a Scot but someone who is always helping us to get over the Finnish line.

  233. liz g says:

    The Outlander fans ace this voting online stuff,they so know what they are doing.
    Can anyone ask them for support I would if I knew how.
    The BBC wouldn’t know what hit them if that lot got on board,but everyone else would see Scotland’s international appeal,we have a lot of friend’s out there,despite what our homegrown (ha ha ha ) media like to portray.

  234. call me dave says:

    Mundell muttering in the Herald – 15yrs minimum for indy 2 ๐Ÿ™‚
    I’ll be deid by then! Not posting archive link.

    Sir Paul Kenny, General Secretary of the GMB, said while he understood why some people could not bring themselves to serve under Mr Corbyn, he warned against sniping from the sidelines.

    โ€œFrankly, if they are going to spend the rest of whatever time it is constantly sniping, talking about rumours of leaving, then the best thing they can do is go. Go off into the oblivion [like] previous splitters from the Labour Party have done.โ€

    Poll still up on England and Scotland BBC web sites (for now)
    30% Robert the Bruce. ๐Ÿ™‚

  235. Graeme Doig says:

    Nice one Wingers ๐Ÿ™‚

    What’s the betting the poll is pulled to the top of the main page to catch the attention of the natives.

    They wont be having us riff raff influencing their cultural output.

  236. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Paula Rose –

    Cheers for that heads-up.

    Big hoots and greetings to Lumilumi! ๐Ÿ™‚

  237. robertknight says:


    Bloody typical BBC on the “Battles of Britain” vote.

    They’ve only gone and stashed the page in the “England” section!

    Anyone would think they were trying to skew the result.

    ‘Aunty’, do something so blatantly underhand? Surely not…

  238. frankieboy says:

    If journalists stuck to reporting instead of soothsaying they might sell more papers. McTernan…when will he ever STFU?

  239. The Dog Philosopher says:

    Is there any other country in the world that wallows so much in its own bloody history? The sanitised versions, of course. Is it all the Brits have left, their ‘glorious’ past? The same old Myths endlessly recycled to keep the proles buoyant and obediant.

    The German people must be sick to death of England’s (the name by which the rest of the world uses to refer to the UK) infatuation with the War and its inability to move on.

    Oops, I might have mentioned the War, but I think I got away with it!

  240. john king says:

    chest bump chest bump chest bump, oh sorry lollysmum, ๐Ÿ˜‰
    can we paint our arses blue now?

    “In any event, the blame will be laid on what are fast becoming the โ€˜usual suspectsโ€™ i.e. fanatical CyberNats.”

    Oooh Im fanatical and my teacher said I would amount to nothing ha,
    Im a REAL fanatic ๐Ÿ™‚

    shush now dinne say onythin when Will Plodmore comes cos he’ll dob us in, ye ken whit he’s like (sneaky wee shite)

    I managed 30 votes before the flair came up tae meet me.
    Lumilumi says
    “The BBC will portray it as brave, poor English soldiers, victims of vicious, murderous Scots.” ๐Ÿ™‚

    aye the poor wee Englishmen of whom there were only 18.000 sittin in a field havin a wee picnic and minding their own business, when they’re suddenly surrounded on all sides by a hoard 6000 strong of chanting heathens, who attacked a slew those poor lords and their squires mercilessly,
    Oh before I forget, it would seem someones been doing a wee bit o revisionism on wiki, just look at this.

    “The English could not ignore this challenge and military preparations were made for a substantial campaign in which the English army probably numbered 2,000 cavalry and 15,000 infantry, many of whom would have been longbowmen.[10] The Scottish army probably numbered between 7,000 and 10,000 men, ”

    Bumping up the Scots numbers and reducing the English so it doesnt look like the arse kicking it was maybe? ๐Ÿ™‚

  241. Luigi says:

    C’mon folks, you are embarrassing the BBC. ๐Ÿ™‚

    You know well that Bannockburn was the “Corbyn” Battle – not really wanted, but included in the list for political correctness and to keep the jocks happy.

    Like Crobyn, you weren’t supposed to actually vote for it.

  242. JLT says:

    Just choked on my cereal as I tried not to laugh.

    32% to Bannockburn
    23% Battle of Britain

    Sweet. Let’s see what the BBC have to say to that LOL

  243. JLT says:

    It just dawned on me!

    I can logon to a very lot of PC’s at work today (put it this way …there’s about 9,000 of them).

    Guess what page on the BBC I will be going too?

  244. JLT says:

    @John King

    Hi Matey

    In fact …you have a lot of PC’s at your workplace too. Like me, you too, could have an absolute field day today!

  245. john king says:

    I saw your post yesterday Jim but I couldn’t respond being at work an all, good to see your going to be onsite for the foreseeable plenty of opportunities to hatch some diabolical plots eh? ๐Ÿ™‚

  246. Cal says:

    @ Call Me Dave 1.41am

    “Sir Paul Kenny General Secretary of the GMB”. Sir Paul Kenny, SIR! Committed socialist and loyal knight of the realm. Aye, gtf! And now hearing that Mr Corbyn has appointed a lord to his shadow cabinet. It’s almost as if the only way we can get rid of the aristos is to be an independent country. But I’m sure Mr Corbyn will come up with the goods any minute now and withdraw all the Labour peers or expel from the Labour party all those that refuse to walk. Aye, any century now.

  247. Clootie says:

    …they still think the media controls the result.

    Accept that the internet exists…we just don’t believe media spin/lies anymore.

  248. ronnie anderson says:

    Hud the bus hud the bus wait tae ah ask Neil Oliver,? how many of the Scots Army were at Bannockburn Neil.

    Aw Ronnie there wiz hunners n thousands,at least hunners n hunners of tubs, they were sprinkled aw er the landscape & further even tae the Coast.

  249. call me dave says:

    Bannockburn 37% and rising WOW!

    Still on the BBC Scottish site.
    BoB 21% Hastings 17%.

    ‘Your call’ Indy 2 switched it off as Kaye started as suggested by my Dr Bannerman….You wont’t like me when I’m angry!

  250. Lollysmum says:

    Well what can I say except for well done wingers. Bannockburn 37% you busy little beavers ๐Ÿ™‚

  251. Alan says:

    Call Kaye, have they got Scott Arthur on speed dial, he’s never off the thing. Didnt catch him coming on, was he just introduced as “Scott from Edinburgh”?

  252. Ian Brotherhood says:


    Bannockburn has dipped to 35%

    First time, since we started watching it, that the Bannockburn number has gone down.

    Right now, 10.25:

    Britain 22%
    Hastings 19%
    Bannockburn 35%

  253. call me dave says:

    Poll disappeared from BBC England site but still on Scottish site.

    Bannockburn drops to 34% ๐Ÿ™‚

  254. Robert Peffers says:

    @Tackety Beets says: 13 September, 2015 at 11:20 pm:

    ” … Anyone know if our Hydro Dams, Pitlochry etc are also penalised via connection charges?”

    Every generator in Scotland is charged extra by this blatant rip-off scheme. It works like this. The further from the main centres of population the generator is situated the higher the connection charge. Of course the biggest population centre is Greater London and the south east of England.

    Even then it doesn’t tell the whole story. They actually subsidise the southern generators while charging all others. o matter what kind of generator you are, if you are outside the subsidised area, you are paying more to add electric power to the grid and the cost increases the further from London you are situated.

    You will find it very, very hard to find the exact figures information on the internet. Even if you find a website they make it very, very hard to understand what they are wibbeling on about. It boils down to paying the southern generators for every kilowatt of power they add to the grid while charging more for each kilowatt the further away from London you are generating electricity.

    The thing is that electricity in a line is not like water in a pipe. With water, what you put in at the sending end runs all the way to the end. If you add dye at the source it eventually runs out the end. Electricity is a potential and a bare, ungrounded, cable end does not spill electricity all over the floor.

    No matter where you connect to the line the potential is maintained by generators to be the same. Like the closed ring main in your home the potential is the same right round the ring main. Connection charging is downright theft on a grand scale.

  255. louis.b.argyll says:

    Robert, Tackety Beets,

    During planning and consultation of Beauty/Affric hydro scheme..

    Locals were sold the idea because..the hydro schemes would make electricity almost free for locals..being that they were er, local.

    It never transpired that way, indeed the opposite is now the case..

    ..shame that Westminster privatised the future..

  256. louis.b.argyll says:

    Ps..Voted for the Bannockburn thing, but kind of wish I hadn’t.

    We shouldn’t encourage the BBC to DRAG UP WARS AND BATTLES, NOW THAT PEAK WWI & WWII ‘celebration’ has passed.

    I will NOT be letting the bairns watch the pish anyway..

  257. cearc says:

    They were told the same at Lairg.

    ‘Almost too cheap to meter’, was the phrase I was told by someone who went to the meetings.

    It is of course true. The maintenance and running costs for hydro are very low. The ‘fuel’ costs zero.

  258. Lollysmum says:

    Still at the original link above but Bannockburn reduced to 33%. Told you they’d rig it. #bbcfail

  259. louis.b.argyll says:


    Daylight / off-peak robbery?

    On news right now..calls for cuts to taxes on green energy…

    Indeed, they are currently, in effect taxing the weather.

  260. call me dave says:


    Looks like it’s gone! Shrugged off it’s mortal coil, dead as a parrot!

    No poll to be seen on the BBC Scottish web site now. It was taken off the English web site a while back.

    One of the early links above 7.07pm gets you there though.

    Bannockburn 32%
    BoB 22%
    Hastings 20%

  261. Macart says:

    The greatest battle is the one yet to come at the ballot and it’ll be between the Scottish electorate and the Westminster establishment.

  262. Susan Macdiarmid says:

    So, if a yes vote of 60% is not a sufficiently clear majority for all of Labour to accept Jeremy Corbyn as leader, will they now be campaigning for a second independence referendum?

  263. S. says:

    I voted in the battles poll; it’s currently showing:

    Bannockburn 28%
    BoB 24%
    Hastings 22%

  264. Paula Rose says:

    Time to start voting on the battle poll again (rolls up sleeves).

  265. Marco McGinty says:

    @Robert Peffers
    “You will find it very, very hard to find the exact figures information on the internet. Even if you find a website they make it very, very hard to understand what they are wibbeling on about. It boils down to paying the southern generators for every kilowatt of power they add to the grid while charging more for each kilowatt the further away from London you are generating electricity.”

    If I understand this correctly, this could be what you’re looking for.

    Scroll down to Final Tariffs 15_16 Jan 2015 and download the link. Go to the table at Section 3.1, and there you will find the costs per kilowatt.

  266. Tam Jardine says:

    Marco McGinty

    Staggering table of generation tariffs. So if I understand it correctly, zones where wind, tidal, hydro and solar energy could be produced in large quantities; optimal zones for renewable energy to be generated are the zones where the government want to discourage energy production through their tariff scheme.

    The ideal zones for energy generation; where it is to be encouraged are London and the south east.

    If ever we needed a table to illustrate how the UK is a feeder state for the city of london here we have it. Activity discouraged the further one ventures from the centre.

    What a completely mental system. I had no understanding how the energy sector in Scotland had been kneecapped by Westminster.

    So, if I was to build the ultimate tidal power generator off Skye that would supply the entire needs of the UK I would be subject to vast charges whereas the dirty old stand-by Greenwich power station in London gets heavily subsidised.

    If their aim is to weaken Scotland as a potential independent state then they are on the right lines I suppose. If their aim is to provide clean energy for the future UK they are going about it all wrong it seems.

  267. Marco McGinty says:

    @Tam Jardine
    “If ever we needed a table to illustrate how the UK is a feeder state for the city of london here we have it. Activity discouraged the further one ventures from the centre.”

    Discouraged, or punished and penalised for doing so.

    “So, if I was to build the ultimate tidal power generator off Skye that would supply the entire needs of the UK I would be subject to vast charges whereas the dirty old stand-by Greenwich power station in London gets heavily subsidised.”

    Pretty much so. It was costing Longannet ยฃ40M last year, whereas those in the south of England were being paid to produce electricity.

  268. Graeme Doig says:

    Tam Jardine

    The question is, why do the Scottish Govt not make more of this state of affairs?

    They have the perfect opportunity with the current circumstances surrounding Longannet.

    Me no understand.

  269. Tam Jardine says:

    Graeme Doig

    The Scottish Government are not making more of this but of course they should be.

    Energy is one of the fundamental strengths of Scotland and the deliberate weakening of our energy sector is nothing short of industrial espionage. As far as I can tell there is no good reason for these generation charges to be anything other than a standard rate.

    When combined with cutting renewable subsidies we are beginning to see a kind the systematic undermining of the energy security of a future independent Scotland to fend off independence.

    There is need for generators to supply energy and need from consumers who use energy. Its a symbiotic relationship.

    The SNP need to go in hard on this. Expose the failures of Westminster. Expose the absurdity of the tariffs. Put together a proper costed plan to make Scotland an energy powerhouse in 20 years and demand devolution of energy.

    I wish I knew more about it Graeme. Honestly, it boils my piss that we have fracking licensed in the Forth (albeit on hold) when we have a perfectly good gas industry working with enough in the ground to keep Scotland supplied for an age whilst we have the potential to generate enough renewable energy to provide cheap electricity for all whilst exporting shedloads.

    It will take investment but for fuck sake, would a properly funded, national renewable energy strategy on a large scale not be a better way to get through ยฃ100 billion than four submarines? I am certain that Scotland could find some exciting longterm energy projects to spend our share on.

    I am not sure if they have been asking questions at westminster on this- they need to bring it up again and again. I will email Deidre Brock on it- not sure what else can be done.

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