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The Cunning(hame) Plan

Posted on September 26, 2017 by

We stuck this short clip up on YouTube yesterday as a throwaway while watching the Labour conference in slack-jawed astonishment (a visitor from an alien planet would have concluded it was the gathering of a party that had just won a landslide victory, not lost its third general election in a row), but on reflection it deserves a proper post.

If you know anything at all about the story of how female Glasgow City Council employees have fought for equal pay, you’ll probably be as outraged as we are at Baxter’s bulletproof brass neck. But the video actually demonstrates what appears to be Scottish Labour’s master strategy for winning back Scotland.

It goes like this:


Labour ran the council in Glasgow as an absolute majority for all but six of the last 72 years (and another 11 as a minority before that) and have bitterly fought equal pay for women every step of the way during a 12-year court struggle, the simplest basic outline of which is recounted here.

Having spent enormous amounts of public money fighting the women who’d been denied their legal entitlement – many of them low-paid carers, cleaners and the like – the council finally lost the case this year, leaving GCC stuck with a crippling liability of up to half a BILLION pounds, which the SNP inherited when they took (minority) control of the council at the elections in May.

For context, that sum represents over 40% of the council’s entire annual budget of £1.2bn. The council is already £2.1bn in debt, and spends almost half of its total Council Tax receipts on servicing and repaying that debt, but the new SNP administration now has to find another £500m from somewhere to pay Labour’s bill without completely destroying public services in Scotland’s biggest city.


As you can see above, Labour’s immediate reaction on being kicked out by the voters is to furiously rage that the SNP – in power for just four months – haven’t already dealt with Labour’s toxic legacy, like a baby screaming because its dirty nappy hasn’t been changed seconds after it filled it.

(Just like when Labour demands that the SNP hike income tax, and reverse PFI contracts, and renationalise the railways, and all the other things Labour didn’t do during the 13 years of its last government, when it held all the levers of power at Westminster AND Holyrood AND council level.)


Alert viewers will recognise the payoff from previous examples like the mitigation of the bedroom tax, the retention of public-sector ferry services at CalMac and the end of the public-sector pay freeze, and more that we could spend all day listing – when the SNP do the thing they’ve always said they were going to do, often against bitter opposition from Labour at the time (eg the second Forth crossing), Labour trumpet that it only happened because they forced the SNP’s hand.

(Many outside observers have pointed out that Labour’s recent revival in the UK stemmed from a manifesto promising a number of policies that the SNP have already implemented in Scotland.)

This simple three-step strategy sounds like political genius, an assessment only slightly hampered by the inconvenient fact that Labour have been using it for years now and have plummeted from the all-conquering party of power in Scotland to a third-placed irrelevance.

Speaking of third-placed irrelevances, Johanna Baxter herself was a failed candidate for Cunninghame North (an area that was rock-solid Labour turf from the mid-1980s right into the 2000s) at the 2016 Holyrood election, where she managed to lose almost 30% of the Labour vote – even after the crushing humiliation of 2011 – and slip behind epically vacant Tory meat-vehicle Jamie Greene.

She was the person who tweeted a widely-mocked photograph from the conference at the weekend showing the world’s most recently-unwrapped Saltire, huffily proclaiming “It’s our flag too”:

And that would be fine, except that she’s the Chair of her local Labour branch in North Ayrshire, where Labour run the council in cahoots with the Tories and recently teamed up with them to vote to remove the Saltire from the council building.

It’s typical of Scottish Labour’s contempt for the electorate – built up over decades of unchallenged dominance – that its hypocrisy remains so brainlessly transparent. There have literally only been weeks between Baxter’s colleagues in North Ayrshire dumping the Saltire and her attempting to claim it for Labour, and only a few more between the final court judgement against (Labour) Glasgow City Council and Baxter howling in faux-tearful outrage to conference that the SNP haven’t fixed it all yet.

The party doggedly keeps acting as if voters have the memory of goldfish, no matter how steadfastly the voters refuse to fall for it. When it comes to self-awareness, let alone cunning, the hapless Baldrick looks like a Nobel Prize winner by comparison.

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    1. 26 09 17 10:57

      The Cunning(hame) Plan | speymouth

    237 to “The Cunning(hame) Plan”

    1. Wulls says:

      Is there a Noble prize for Fuckwittery ?????
      She’s a shoe in.

    2. starlaw says:

      Labour now playing Wullie Rennies game, do nothing and take the credit for everything.
      Utterly shameless crowd of cretins, backed up by an equally shameless lying News Media. People are now seeing through this tactic, which Newspapers know to their cost as will the Lybour party.

    3. Liam says:

      They could have at least ironed the Saltire or (heaven forfend!) flown the thing from a flagstaff so that it didn’t just look like it just arrived in the post from Amazon…


    4. sosolidshoe says:

      You missed the part where, after all this garbage, her and the more cooperative elements of the “right on” brigade began insisting that the negative response to her shit-stirring was just misogyny.

    5. HandandShrimp says:

      I find their “prepare for government” shtick remarkably similar to David Steel’s ill fated exhortation.

      However, Labour’s “everyone should fix the mess we made” assumes that people are stupid (or at least as stupid as they are). This is not a good look.

    6. bobajock says:

      Its hard to be angry at the stupid Labour people, except when they blame someone else for Labours stupidity.

      Oh FFS – I used to one of the stupid Labour people … and then I got smart.

    7. scotspine says:

      Now The Rev has provided the clear story on this, it is up to us to ensure that it is disseminated as widely as possible.

      It’s time to ramp up the attack on the Unionists, whether they are the various Political Parties, or the MSM.

      The next Indy Ref is a do or die.

    8. Ian says:

      No wonder the tories pushed them into third place. Seems that even unionists prefer their liars to be open about it rather than deceitful.

    9. Bob Mack says:

      She looks on the Saltire with the same enthusiasm she would have for porcupine lined slippers. Having voted to remove it from her place of work, she now claims it as her own.
      Hypocrisy,lies and deception are the Unionist mantras for the gullible.

      I find it hard to believe that there are still those dim enough to believe all the rubbish that emanates from the dark recesses of Unionism that these creatures inhabit.

    10. Street Andrew says:

      I hate to be picky, Wulls but…

      That should read ‘Nobel prize’, as in Alfred Nobel, inventor of various explosives; including dynamite I think.

      And a Shoo-in should not be confused with a ‘shoe in’ which might result from a particularly forceful kick up the airse (possibly merited in this case), nor should it be confused with shoe horn, or choux bun.

      In answer to the question, no I don’t believe there is a category for ‘fuckwittery’ as such but the peace prize frequently gets presented to notable warmongers so I guess there is degree of fuckwittery built into the system.

    11. Portjim says:

      Interesting to note the (twitter?) comment from Nick Eardley BBC, highlighting that the PFI contracts were signed by Labour – signs of a more honest reporting stance from at least some at Victoria Quay?

    12. mogabee says:

      What makes me laugh is the “Solidarity” brothers shtick they all seem to be using ATM.

      It all feels so false, but then it’s Labour the purveyors of falsity and outright lies.

      And what is it with that clenched fist… 😀

    13. Macart says:

      Yesterday was a landmark day for hypocrisy, cowardice and shear dishonesty at conference. I didn’t think Labour could sink any lower in my estimation, but they managed to find that new level quite easily.

      What was a kind of tired sadness and disappointment is simply cold contempt.

      No contrition on their part. No self awaremess. No humility. They presided over decades of ruin for their own. Decades of near uncontested power in Scotland. They picked up the wage packets, the patronage, the peerages and the limelight.

      Their legacy is crippling debt, social injustice and constitutional omnishambles.

      Yesterday proved beyond a shadow of a doubt, that Corbyn’s Labour is no different in any way shape or form from Blair’s. From Corbyn’s declaration on the nature of the devolution settlement to Baxter’s bilge ATL, they made those statements without turning a hair.

      So much for a kinder, more honest politics. Looks to me like business as usual or same shit, different day.

    14. Scott Cameron says:

      You could have added a fourth step to include Howls of Persecution when these acts of breathtaking gall are blown out of the water when the facts are presented

    15. Snode1965 says:

      Now that’s what you call journalism.

    16. David says:

      The labour party in Inverclyde had control of the housing stock for years and they ran up massive debts, one third of the money that came in was used just to pay the interest on those debts, so what happened, they gave up control of the housing stock to a Housing Association called River Clyde Homes, result debt was abolished and now we have houses getting built all over the place. In my lifetime i have not seen one new house ever getting built by the labour council that was in charge of the housing stock, in fact most of the council houses where in a shocking condition, and all they did was ask for more money while putting the rents up for poorer services, in the last election we had a labour candidate of about 25 years of age say that the scottish government intended to close Inverclyde Royal Hospital, they have been telling this lie for years and the hospital is still open to this day, they must think the people are stupid to believe this utter tripe that they keep giving us, best thing that ever happened to this area is the fact that inverclyde council do not have anything to do with the housing stock as far as building and repairs are concerned

    17. Robert Peffers says:

      Yeah! But!

      Isn’t it the YoonYoonists claims that it is the SNP and YES movement that are obsessed with flags?

      Anyway, as there is no such political party registered as Scottish Labour, is not their own flag the Butcher’s Apron?

      Which does, after all, include a Saltire in the design.

      Aiblins, of course, they are ashamed of their YoonYoonist flag.

    18. ClanDonald says:

      What are you all complaining about? Johanna Baxter has done more damage to the Labour party in one day than all of us could hope to achieve in a lifetime. Go Johanna!

    19. galamcennalath says:

      The flag on my pole lost its creases long ago!

      However, I too have a couple of saltires which still have their folds. One has YES printed across it and the other has the EU Stars waiting for a suitable campaign to begin. If Labour politicians were to stand behind those for a photo opportunity, they might be taken seriously and get more support!

    20. Graeme McCormick says:

      It reminds me when the Labour councillors initially condemned the right- to buy introduced by Mrs T then they all started buying their own homes they rented from the council.

    21. Robert Peffers says:

      @Bob Mack says: 26 September, 2017 at 11:04 am:

      “I find it hard to believe that there are still those dim enough to believe all the rubbish that emanates from the dark recesses of Unionism that these creatures inhabit.”

      For a brief moment there, Bob, I nearly suggested that perhaps it was just that those still voting for Labour were those who were in truth Labour Party officials and candidates.

      Then the realisation dawned that there were far too many Labour voters than there were Labour Party officials and candidates.

      I’m ashamed to say there are still far too many dim wits among my country’s peoples even allowing for the white settlers from dan sath for, mind you, I know more than a few such white settlers who are staunch SNP and YES Movement activists.

      It is most certainly wrong to attempt such sweeping generalisations. I guess we can never figure out why some still vote Labour but a great pity we cannot work it out and then concentrate upon those voters.

    22. Robert Graham says:

      Looks like ” the thick of it ” hasn’t been dropped after all,

      Malcolm Tucker is alive and well and imbedded in the Labour party in Jockland , fact or fiction ? Oh f/k embarrasing more like .

      Any chances the up coming SNP conference will receive the same wall to wall coverage here in Jockland as all the unionist parties enjoy , Yeh i know dont be so bloody stupid .

    23. Valerie says:


      Well done, there’s that Rev magic.

    24. Brochan says:

      Another excellent expose but would it not be best to open links in your posts in a new tab. This constant forward and back in my browsers gets quite hard to cope with at times.

    25. Proud Cybernat says:

      All I see is a bunch of squares.

    26. artyhetty says:

      Wow, I for one did not know quite the level of debt that the Labour council, another arm of the UK London party, had landed Glasgow City Council with. It seems the Labour council, really did a great job of keeping Glasgow poor as hell. Even when I was there a few weeks ago, some of the mian streets were just so run down compared to when I worked there, 27 years ago. I was quite shocked.

      How on earth are the new SNP council going to repair the amount of damage left by the Labour council, who as this article points out, were sitting in comfy chairs in the council chambers, over many years, ratcheting up massive debts for the city! The people of Glasgow should be absolutely livid. The Labour councillors who left this huge debt and mess, should be locked up.

      Utter gutter dwelling, self serving, corrupt as hell Labour council should not be allowed near the council chambers again. Glasgow, make sure that you keep them out of office because they will punish your lovely people if they ever get a snifter of power again!

      Labour, been taking the piss out of the people for years, and now are livid at the Scottish people for seeing right through their lies. Absolute disgrace, keeping people poor, and in shoddy housing all around Scotland. Makes my blood boil so it does.

    27. McDuff says:

      I`ll say it again.
      Unless we can get articles like this and others out into the wider public domain debunking Labour/ Tory lies and hypocrisy a gullible public will continue to soak it up believing it to be the truth.
      This daily diet of Unionist propaganda will have a negative effect on any future indy referendum and somehow has to be countered.

    28. Not Convinced says:

      Liam sayid on 26 September, 2017 at 10:48 am :-
      They could have at least ironed the Saltire or (heaven forfend!) flown the thing from a flagstaff so that it didn’t just look like it just arrived in the post from Amazon…

      Yeah, but it probably had just arrived in the post! Unless Labour want us to believe that this was something they’d long planned, and an occasion for which they had a Saltire around already?

    29. Capella says:

      @ Brochan – right click over the link the3n choose “open in new tab”.

      That little clip should be viralised around Glasgow.

    30. Capella says:

      Sorry about the typos. I seem to be getting careless.

      Just checked the BBC website. Top item – a Coronation Street actress has died. Third top item – Tony Booth has died. Sandwiched in between – US v NK war games.
      Incredible sense of priorities and newsworthiness.

    31. Artyhetty says:

      Apologies if this appears more than once, it did not appear first time.

      Wow, I for one did not know quite the level of debt that the Labour council, another arm of the UK London party, had landed Glasgow City Council with. It seems the Labour council, really did a great job of keeping Glasgow poor as hell. Even when I was there a few weeks ago, some of the mian streets were just so run down compared to when I worked there, 27 years ago. I was quite shocked.

      How on earth are the new SNP council going to repair the amount of damage left by the Labour council, who as this article points out, were sitting in comfy chairs in the council chambers, over many years, ratcheting up massive debts for the city! The people of Glasgow should be absolutely livid. The Labour councillors who left this huge debt and mess, should be locked up.

      Utter gutter dwelling, self serving, corrupt as hell Labour council should not be allowed near the council chambers again. Glasgow, make sure that you keep them out of office because they will punish your lovely people if they ever get a snifter of power again!

      Labour, been taking the piss out of the people for years, and now are livid at the Scottish people for seeing right through their lies. Absolute disgrace, keeping people poor, and in shoddy housing all around Scotland. Makes my blood boil so it does.

    32. CameronB Brodie says:

      BLiS___d share a pathology of outlook with the other Yoon parties. It is neither rational nor moderate and expressess a psychological sense of community that is not rooted in Scotland.

      Self-Interest and Public Interest in Western Politics


      Is it self?interest or public interest that dominates in public life? Rational?choice theory, political philosophy, and electoral research were all used to answer this question. Analysing existing literature, Professor Leif Lewin shows that predominant consensus emerged on this issue by the 1980s. This consensus states that people in politics are driven mostly by their self?interest and not by common good and society values. Although Professor Lewin is not testing existing views that ‘egoism rules’ on deep theoretical grounds, he strongly argues that empirical facts do not support such views and thus opens a new chapter in the debate on individuals’ rationality.

      The Hidden Agenda of the Political Mind: How Self-Interest Shapes Our Opinions and Why We Won’t Admit It

      Democracy v self interest?

    33. Dave McEwan Hill says:


      Kezia Dugdale’s attack on the Labour Party in today’s Record might be significant.

    34. Capella says:

      Westminster are hoping that Labour will finish off the SNP and then they can all get back to business again – ripping us off.

      So no news is good news as far as the BBC is concerned. You have to go RT to find out if anything is happening. Oh look, there’s a big NATO exercise in Scotland, practising shooting NK nukes down.

      What’s Labour’s policy on Trident again? Or is that off the agenda like BREXIT?

    35. Ken500 says:

      How can these people live with themselves. It is just appalling lying and twisting the truth, beyond belief. Just about every word they utter is not true. Fifty years of Labour.

      They sat and let the equivalent of £Billions go south for years. Destroyed the world economy. Killed and maimed millions of people. Caused a debt of £Trns. The rage and anger they create is only out matched by the appalling ignorance, incompetence, conceit and arrogance. They do not care about anyone else than themselves. The lies and hypocrisy is legendary. They should hang their head in shame. The poverty, hurt and harm they have imposed on the world is quite unecessary. Most of them can’t count or read a balance sheet. The unionist Parties.

    36. Dan Huil says:

      Labour British nationalist lies and hypocrisy when dealing with Scotland. No wonder the britnat bbc loves them.

    37. Artyhetty says:


      If you want to open something in a new tab just right click on it, says, open in new tab.

      Watched that clip again, unbelievable. Absolute disgrace.
      The saltire is far too good for them.

      Labour represents a backward, selfish, greedy, hypocritical politics, it has strayed so far from any notion of socialism it is unrecognisable. Then again, looking at the housing they chucked up for the workers of Scotland, they were always taking the piss.

      The Saltire symbolises a modern, fair, equal and forward looking country. Labour do not stand for those things for Scotland to say the least. So, no thanks Labour!

    38. Dr Jim says:

      This woman can outlie Jackie Baillie and Kezia Dugdale put together now that’s some size of a brass necked liar

      BTW Kezia Dugdale is now advocating Liberal Democrat policy on the EU…Hmm

      Anti Jewish noises coming out at the Labour conference…Again!
      I’m sure they’ll have Joanna Baxter blame it on the SNP

    39. One_Scot says:

      ‘ Scottish Labour’s master strategy for winning back Scotland’

      Just tell complete bollocks and get the Scottish media to back you up.

      Not sure how many floating voters read this site, but the only way we will see the back of this trolling of Scotland is if Scotland becomes Independent.

    40. G H Graham says:

      The reason that Labour treat the electorate as glaikit half wits is simple; Labour itself is run by and staffed by glaikit half wits which no respectable private sector company would employ.

      Labour’s incompetence in Scotland is disproportionately profound due to its long earned assumption of power & authority.

      But just like 8 track cassettes, lava lamps & Space Hoppers, Labour has fallen out of favour while remaining a nostalgic political party stuck in the past.

      Who would honestly want to swap a 2017 Honda Accord for a 1972 Austin Morris Marina? That’s the same, easy to solve dilemma when you compare Labour’s North British Branch Office with the SNP.

    41. Robert Kerr says:

      @Dave McEwan Hill

      Equally significant is the Press Association photograph of Kezia looking confident sporting a tartan scarf with a very out of focus Palace of Westminster as background as published on the online DR.

      Read into the runes peeps if you dare!

    42. Derick fae Yell says:

      Dave McEwan Hill

      Yes. I thought that. For one thing it’s in coherent prose. Perhaps her mind is clearing when less pushed to defend the indefensible?

      I noted that the stance Kezia sets out on the single market is basically that in ‘Scotland’s Place in Europe’

      Supporting a second EU ref, of course, also has other implications …

    43. Liam says:

      Capella says:
      26 September, 2017 at 12:16 pm

      Just checked the BBC website. Top item – a Coronation Street actress has died. Third top item – Tony Booth has died. Sandwiched in between – US v NK war games.
      Incredible sense of priorities and newsworthiness.

      The BBC’s obsession with reporting the deaths of minor former celebs (who you might have vaguely heard about but have long forgotten) is becoming laughable.

    44. Giving Goose says:

      I’m personally convinced that the events at the Labour conference are very carefully contrived and coordinated with the other two Unionist facades.

      What we are witnessing is a very skilful application of a Management Strategy to keep Scotland within the Union.

      Baxter & co do not air these speeches in isolation. These are parts of a greater Project Plan. I’ve no doubt that it will be coordinated at a very high level within the British Establishment, probably from some post colonial bunker in Whitehall, but none the less it is very much a centralised effort.

      Labour, Tory and LibDems will each have a brief and a part to play. It will be designed to look as though each is acting independently but in reality they will not be.

      I think there is a residual feeling of nostalgia among many Yes supporters for the Labour Party and a disbelief, sometimes bordering on grief, that they could act in such a way. And that is where some are clearly taking the bait and being played like fish.

      The Labour Party are simply a part of a greater Unionist entity. That’s where politics has gone in Scotland. It’s a 2 horse race. The Yes movement versus the No movement.
      There is no 3 party Unionism in Scotland any more. It’s one block with 3 pretend faces, intended to fool the public.

      That one Unionist block will do anything to keep Scotland in the Union. Nothing is morally unacceptable to them. All options are on the table for this mob.

      Baxter may not be fully aware or conversant with the greater Strategy, although she will know that one exists. Nor will she know the string pullers but she will be a willing foot soldier for the Union, quite prepared to do and say what ever it takes.

      These are Ultra-British Nationalists. Nasty to the core. Devoid of any moral compass. It’s all about the Union and it must survive at all costs, as far as these monsters are concerned.

    45. Those of us who have stood and campaigned against Labour, already knew what a total and utter disgrace that party is.

    46. Breeks says:

      If only we had a Scottish Spitting Image, and of course a broadcasting network to air it….

      That would get our message to people.

    47. Liam says:

      “There is no 3 party Unionism in Scotland any more. It’s one block with 3 pretend faces, intended to fool the public.”

      Like the pretend ‘brands’ in Lidl.

    48. Robert Graham says:

      The same petty childish efforts used by the nutty unionists in Northern Ireland, physically chiseling off or grinding off Gaelic symbols on Water Utility access covers , this kind of behaviour has led to the breakdown of the Northern island administration .

      So it starts here ,yeh remove the flag , maybe time to raise this in parliament , have a vote on removing our flag from our public buildings, lets see the excuses used in order to justify that position, over to you Labour in scotland .

      As this falsehood is directed at the Scottish Government it should be answered by the scottish government in parliament , and the member who uttered this obvious lie asked to explain herself ,and the Neutral Presiding Officer remind MSPs of the requirement to tell the Bleedin Truth or face removal .

    49. Ken MacColl says:

      Surely a low blow from Capella there at 12.26! Just when it looked as if the topic would be safely fudged yet again we get a sneaky reference to Trident. Surely Labour’s policy in this is crystal clear? They are implacably opposed to nuclear weaponry, support nuclear disarmament, but go along with the retention of the facility at Faslane. It’s all perfectly logical?

    50. CameronB Brodie says:

      Why do Scots continue to vote for BLiS___d?

      IMHO, it’s due to a combination of class culture, ignorance (not stupidity), self-interest and prejudice and stuff. Not a healthy disposition, frankly.

      Class, culture and politics: on the relevance of a Bourdieusian concept of class in political sociology


      Even though contemporary discussions of class have moved forward towards recognizing a multidimensional concept of class, empirical analyses tend to focus on cultural practices in a rather narrow sense, that is, as practices of cultural consumption or practices of education. As a result, discussions within political sociology have not yet utilized the merits of a multidimensional conception of class. In light of this, the article suggests a comprehensive Bourdieusian framework for class analysis, integrating culture as both a structural phenomenon co-constitutive of class and as symbolic practice. Further, the article explores this theoretical framework in a multiple correspondence analysis of a Danish survey, demonstrating how class and political practices are indeed homologous. However, the analysis also points at several elements of field autonomy, and the concluding discussion therefore suggests the need for further studies.

      Culture, values and practices

      Returning (to) Communities: Theory, Culture and Political Practice of the Communal

    51. David McDowell says:

      “The party doggedly keeps acting as if voters have the memory of goldfish”

      A very astute observation, marred only by the fact that many of them clearly do.

    52. CameronB Brodie says:

      Of course, there’s the upwardly mobile among the ranks of BLiS___d and their supports, as well as drunken embarrassments to humanity in the HoL.

      Higher social class predicts increased unethical behavior


      Seven studies using experimental and naturalistic methods reveal that upper-class individuals behave more unethically than lower-class individuals. In studies 1 and 2, upper-class individuals were more likely to break the law while driving, relative to lower-class individuals. In follow-up laboratory studies, upper-class individuals were more likely to exhibit unethical decision-making tendencies (study 3), take valued goods from others (study 4), lie in a negotiation (study 5), cheat to increase their chances of winning a prize (study 6), and endorse unethical behavior at work (study 7) than were lower-class individuals. Mediator and moderator data demonstrated that upper-class individuals’ unethical tendencies are accounted for, in part, by their more favorable attitudes toward greed.

    53. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      The BritLab outpost in Scotland, the gift that just keeps on giving.

      There will always be some voters who are stuck in the habit of a lifetime (and who thus are being treated by their party as useful idiots), but the message is slowly percolating out to everyone else, despite the media collusion.

      The main problem with all this empty cynical manoeuvring is that it is bringing democratic politics in general into disrepute, and that affects everyone.

    54. Alex Clark says:

      For 10 years the Labour party fought against equal pay for women spending who knows how many millions in legal fees before the Court of Session finally ruled against them.

      Now Johanna Baxter rants and raves and expects the new SNP administration to clean up their mess with a potential £500 million payout. Sheer hypocrisy, brass neck is not even close.

    55. Grouse Beater says:

      Labour Party – Justice for all. (Scotland not included)

      This almost 1,000 hits today. Time to send it to Labour Party officials:

    56. What amazed me is she said all that with a wee bit of venom thrown in, as though were being truthful! and spouted a her lies with clenched cheeks , those of her arse , I mean .
      When will the population of Scotland understand , that the Labour and Tory parties , are virtually one and the same ??
      They both have leaders who are total and absolute liars, and cannot be trusted . You want mendacity ? vote for ei
      #ther of the above

    57. Jack Murphy says:

      OT. TODAY.
      “Oil exploration firm Hurricane Energy’s major Lancaster field in the Atlantic has been approved by regulators.

      The company said earlier this year it had made the “largest undeveloped discovery” of oil in UK waters, west of Shetland……..”

      BBC Scotland Business News Archived

    58. Proud Cybernat says:

      The Newswatch vid content is great but they REALLY need to get the presenter’s sound sorted. Sounds like he’s talking in a close or something. Otherwise, great stuff.

    59. Andy-B says:

      The Labour branch office in Scotland’s main priority, after SNPBAD, is to do Scotland down at every turn at the behest of their Westminster masters.

      The exact same can be said of the Libdem, and Tory branch offices in Scotland.

    60. CameronB Brodie says:

      Changing ingrained thought pattern and beliefs isn’t easy or immediate.

      Overcoming Negative Self-Thinking
      Why do people remain stuck in their limited version of reality?

      Why in response to negative mood, do some people initiate a self-defeating cycle of increasing negative thinking and intensifying negative feeling? One possible answer is the way we see the events through the mental filter of our schemas. Schemas are overarching mental representations of oneself, others, and the world: “I am not worth being loved by someone.” “If people know the real me, they will reject me.” “People should do better, try harder.” With repeated activation (rehearsal), the negative schemas acquire a stronger habitual thought pattern that over time is more easily accessed by stressful life events. The awareness of our schemas provides an opportunity to grow.

      How to Change our Thinking and Thinking Habits

      Five Step Process To Breaking A Negative Thought Pattern

    61. Ian says:

      Baxter was part of the controversial NEC meeting about the rules for the Labour leadership election. She didn’t appear to be member of the JC fan club back then.

    62. geeo says:

      Someone said THIS on a facebook post…

      “We need a central team rebutting British nationalist propaganda “.
      My response (and just my opinion mind)

      Actually, NO, we do not.

      This would simply result in endless trolling by the establishment.

      It would become a never ending game of unionist led ‘whack-a-mole’ where every time the indy rebuttal team countered a unionist lie, they would simply present another …then another…then another.

      What needs to happen is for pro indy folk during interviews to simply chalkenge the lies by simply asking the unionist side to prove their claims.

      They clearly can’t, as they are lying.

      Turn the tables on them, say things like…”The unionists want explicit details from the Yes campaign, yet they make unfounded, unproven statements on every issue raised, and YOU (the media) ALLOW THEM to propogate their lies and smears”.

      “If the No side and the media refuse to justify their position, the public deserve to know WHY NOT” ?

      Simple stuff, and stops the interviewer from attacking the indy interviewee, as they can say…”why are you attacking my position when you have just refused to even question the validity of the other sides arguments ? This is a clear example of media bias against the Yes campaign”.

      This would have a fundamental impact on the media if they knew that this would happen in every interview.
      …. .

    63. Robert Peffers says:

      @McDuff says: 26 September, 2017 at 12:00 pm:

      “I`ll say it again.
      Unless we can get articles like this and others out into the wider public domain debunking Labour/ Tory lies and hypocrisy a gullible public will continue to soak it up believing it to be the truth.”

      Well! Then! McDuff, Ye kin say it aa ye like bit it micht nae bi true.

      Facts say it isn’t true. The facts show that there isn’t an MSM source of news that isn’t suffering a, sometimes gross, reduction in their viewer and/or listener figures or their circulation figures.

      In some cases it is quite obvious that these SMSM news outlets are being massively subsidised, (By whom, is the obvious question but the less obvious one is why)?

      Here’s a wee example for you. When I became 75 years old I decided I would not bother to renew a TV receiving licence. I subsequently received a reminder that I had not renewed my licence and I replied that I no longer watched any live TV and thought no more about it. I did not mention I was, if I applied, eligible for the free over 75 y.o. licence as it was not their business to know why I did not watch live TV.

      However, the reminders continued and I again informed, (what I now realised were not the BBC themselves but a private debt collecting agency the BBC had outsources their licencing collecting to), that I no longer watched live TV.

      The reminders subsequently stopped … for around a year … and then they began again. This time, though, I had done my research and I knew there was no statutory requirement to tell the BBC or their agents anything whatsoever … so I didn’t, and the reminders continued and have done so for well over six or seven years now. I have a thick file of threatening letters if I can ever be bothered to accuse the perpetrators of these threats by contacting Police Scotland.

      These letters were all couched in a pseudo legalised language that implied these BBC agents were part of some form of legal law enforcement set-up like the police, Sherriff’s Officers or bailiffs, (There are no longer bailiffs in Scotland – with exception of water bailiffs).

      These letters are always addressed to, “The legal occupier”, because these people, who their letters claim to by, “Officers”, but whose only actual claim is they operate out of an office. They just do not know who the person they are illegally threatening with legal action actually is.

      The letters have become ever more threatening as time passes yet, in now going on 7 years, no one from that, “Office”, has ever called to carry out the threatened, “Investigation”, by their Officers”. I know this because I have a CCTV system installed that records any one entering my property from either front or rear.

      Now here is the fact – these people have no more right to, “Investigate”, than any other member of the general public.

      Their only right consists of being legally allowed to enter the property in order to proceed to the main door in order to contact the occupier. They will break Scots law if they attempt to investigate in any way. They can also be prevented from legal entry by a simple notice saying No Cold Callers, or the old traditional Scots, “No Hawkers”.

      There is no English style law of Trespass under Scots law but there are laws to prevent interference with personal privacy often referred to as Peeping Tom laws.

      So the BBC seems to have had little success with preventing licence evasion or in prosecuting any one for so doing so in Scotland.

      In fact there is probably a good case to be made that the constant use of the threats of legal action made by them are a criminal offence under the Scots law of Coercion, (equivalent to the English law of Blackmail), but which specifically, unlike the English law, prohibits the use of threats of legal action in order to force payments from victims.

    64. William Wallace says:

      @ Brochan

      Hold the CTRL key when clicking links to open them in a new tab (bind it to a spare mouse button if you have that type of mouse).

    65. Jack Murphy says:

      Proud Cybernat said 2:01 pm
      “The Newswatch vid content is great but they REALLY need to get the presenter’s sound sorted. Sounds like he’s talking in a close or something. Otherwise, great stuff.”

      Thanks for mentioning that upload. I went looking for it and here it is.
      Overall,a short excellent FILM. “Newswatch Scotland. Michelle Thomson”.

      From Indyref Two:
      5 minutes.

    66. gordoz says:

      This Labour conference malarkey.
      Can anybody else here Kinnock saying “Well alright!”
      In the background ?

      Hubris galore!

    67. gordoz says:

      Hear ? Bloody predictive text ?

    68. Capella says:

      Update on BBC website Home Page. The Coronation Street actress and Tony Booth have died items still Nos 1 and 3. Sandwiched in between now is England cricketer arrested.

      I suppose if I bothered to register they might tailor the items to my location. Even so, this is dire stuff from a “national” broadcaster; unless your nation is England, of course.

    69. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Alex Clark @ 13:49,

      The sad thing is that it’s likely that a large proportion of the audience (if not Ms Baxter herself, presumably) believe that those vile nats in Glasgow have run the place for years, and these false pretenders to their halo of righteousness have been persecuting their union sisters for the entire time.

      Or is the whole thing a total charade designed for public consumption?

    70. Anyone skimmed through the daily stranger on the newstands today?

      I have and I made some notes, it has a two page spread pages 8 & 9 headlined Jezza’s route to No 10 king of swing.
      On page 9 a map of Scotland with 21 SNP seat highlighted
      with the text hit em where it hurts most.

      noticeable of course no tory or libdem seats targeted

    71. Alastair says:

      “Fool the Many not the Few”

    72. mike d says:

      Bobajock 10.57am. Your not the only one,im over 60 now and ashamed to admit I once voted for these lying slab b******s.But thankfully I saw through their lies,hatred of Scotland,and false promises by the time i was 30.

    73. Brian Powell says:

      I think those politicking and manipulating for a no Ind Ref or a No vote when it happens, haven’t considered the reality that we will still believe and continue to act on the belief that those Westminster politicians, their sidekicks and office managers in Scotland are total c.unts.

      That will motivate future decisions.

    74. Robert Peffers says:

      @Giving Goose says: 26 September, 2017 at 12:51 pm:

      “I’m personally convinced that the events at the Labour conference are very carefully contrived and coordinated with the other two Unionist facades. What we are witnessing is a very skilful application of a Management Strategy to keep Scotland within the Union.”

      Indeed so, Giving Goose. I’ve been saying as much since I came to read and comment on Wings. I explained it then as one big long lasting game that has gone on since at least when the Romans first wrote down their, (often contradictory), accounts of British History. That is as far back as we can reliably go with written records for there is no previous written records.

      The Romans began an, “Establishment”, of imported elitist political leaders in the south that has persisted in South Britain until the present day. It became, and remains, “The Westminster Establishment”.

      Elite leaderships have come and gone but have always been replaced by another, equally corrupt and self-centred, self-interested elitist leadership. There are hereditary peers still sitting in the House of Lords and a hereditary Royal Family of Germanic origin in Buck House today descended from the same roots since the day the Romans left Britain to attempt to preserve their failing Empire.

      For example George, (Gideon), Osborne, is heir apparent of two ancient Irish aristocratic Baronetcies from the so called, “Anglo-Irish Ascendancy”, of the 17 Century. The Queen of England is descended from the Germanic family of Wettin.

      It is possible to trace Queen Elizabeth II’s lineage back around 1,500 years. Her patrilineal line can be traced back to Theodoric I of Wettin. Thus she is related to every European monarch in some way or another. She is a descended from Charlemagne via William the Conqueror’s wife, Maltilda of Flanders (c. 1031),. She is also descended from Charlemagne through many of her ancestors marrying Frankish princesses, notably Eleanor of Aquitaine (1122).

      There has been an unbroken elite political/military leadership in south Britain since before 54 BC.

    75. Proud Cybernat says:

      A problem shared…

    76. Mike says:

      As long as the media is around to polish their brass neck Labour can strut around showing off its shine to everybody.
      Frustration is a Scot who believes in Social justice equality and self determination.

    77. Capella says:

      @ Alistair – brilliant!
      “Fool the Many not the Few”
      Will remember that.

      Re the constitutional points – Nana’s link form the previous thread supports our right to self determination AND freedom of expression. I think we ought to be demanding the right to our own broadcasting services. Comments below the article are also worth reading.

    78. galamcennalath says:

      From a re-tweet on WoS Twitter …

      ” 14% of @theSNP members prefer ‘devo Max’ as constitutional preference “

      Perhaps not a surprise. That’s how IndyRef1’s NO win was achieved, offering DevoMax, after all.

      The problem is, of course, there is not a snowball in Hell’s chance of Scotland ever being given DevoMax. And make no mistake, we need to be GIVEN it by WM and the Unionist parties.

      The other ‘mythical beast’ is a federal UK, which seems even less likely than DM for Scotland.

      It shows how vulnerable YES campaigning in IndyRef2 is to a VOW2 …. “DevoMax, of course you can have it, this time, we promise”.

      We need to campaign against the Union AND we need to campaign against any Indy-Lite middle grounds. Firstly because ‘third way’ options are mythical and will never ever materialise. But secondly, because they don’t actually get away from many of the Union’s problems.

      Anti Indy campaigning has never ceased and Labour will undoubtedly sooner or later begin a Vow2 push in earnest.

      Scotland need full blown self determining independence, nothing short (even if it did exist)!

    79. CameronB Brodie says:

      Re. class cultures and how they can be recruited to support dominant ideologies. The BBC is no stranger to such forms of political manipulation.

      Understanding the Changing Cultural Value of the BBC World Service and the British Council

      Executive Summary

      This project investigated the changing cultural value of the BBC World Service (WS) and the British Council (BC) and how their cultural value can be assessed and measured. For eight decades, these organisations have been the face and voice of Britain overseas. Our research found that their attraction and influence abroad remains strong, but is on the wane, reflecting the UK’s declining economic and political significance on the world stage.

      Among the key findings of our historical and contemporary research: Cultural value is the catalyst of all aspects of value at WS and BC, founded on their capacity to act as transcultural intermediaries, fostering international understanding, and setting benchmarks in global standards for journalism and cultural relations work. Cultural value is relational, never independent of political and economic value. It is perspectival: audiences trust the quality and credibility of outputs; high professional standards and prestige benefit staff; funders appreciate the diplomatic and soft power assets. Cultural value accrues slowly over time but can be quickly lost.

      Social media afford new ways of connecting, informing and engaging citizens at home and abroad. Our case studies analysing the uses of Twitter and Facebook by BC and WS around global media events underscore the so far limited role of social media in democratising participation and promoting intercultural dialogue.

      We developed an innovative, theoretically grounded and empirically informed Cultural Value Model (CVM). This is an innovative device for conceptualising, analysing and assessing value in a multidimensional, composite, visual way. The CVM is designed for planning, monitoring and evaluating projects and organisations over time, alongside existing performance indicators and impact measures. It is currently being tested and developed on further projects at WS and BC as well as at the Swedish Institute.

      The above takes on a rather sinister aspect, given the Scottish experience of the BBC in Scotland, who are strangers to ethical practice, IMHO.

      @British Council
      Not all rational men have the same notion of good! Belief does not provide ethical justification of the normative. What about my inalienable human Right to Development”?

    80. Proud Cybernat says:

      @ Alistair…

      Just for you…

    81. Stephen says:

      Lies, hypocrisy & sophistry at play here. Ms Baxter really should know when to stop digging. She’s also tweeted this >

      So I decided to have a nosey. At said meeting of 14/09 Labour cllr @ EvaCMurray (also happily RT #BaldrickBaxter) asked the following Q: “Would the Leader of the Council provide an update on the 2 recent judgements relating to the City Council and equal pay?” There then followed a rather lengthy and complex reply by Susan Aitken. I don’t have the time to type up a transcript but rather would point anyone interested in the response to view the webcast of the meeting here:

      Note: You don’t need to watch full meeting, use menu bar on right of page, navigate to ‘questions’ and look for Eva Murray Question.

      Later on Tory Boy Euan Blockley pops up to ask “Can the Leader of the Council advise if Glasgow City Council is planning to settle the equal pay claims as promised in her manifesto or appeal the decision?” (refusing to withdraw his Q despite being advised by the chair a detailed response had already been given on the matter) and again you can watch/listen in full to Susan Aitken reply here :

      As I said Susan Aitken gives a detailed response and it has to be listened to in order to gain full context of what she says regarding any ‘leave to appeal’, but at no point did I hear or interpret what she said that supports the spin Baxter put on it either her conference speech or Twitter comments that followed. Spin and sophistry at play in my humble opinion.
      Embarrassed to admit I voted for Labour for near 30yrs!

    82. schrodingers cat says:

      re pete wishart saying indyref2 after 2021……..

      a window of opportunity for indyref2 will open in the next few years. if we jump too soon we risk losing, waiting too long risks the same.

      i do not know when the right moment to jump will be, much depends on the actions of others beyond our control, case in point, pete’s prediction is based on the uk getting a 2 year transitional trade agreement, something beyond our influence but if this agreement fails to materialise, the time frame for indyref2 is likely to come forward etc.

      losing indyref2 is not an option, we need to look at all eventualities when deciding when to jump

    83. manandboy says:

      McDuff says at 12:00 pm
      I`ll say it again.

      “Unless we can get articles like this and others out into the wider public domain debunking Labour/ Tory lies and hypocrisy a gullible public will continue to soak it up believing it to be the truth.
      This daily diet of Unionist propaganda will have a negative effect on any future indy referendum and somehow has to be countered.”

      So right, McDuff. Control of 99% of both the broadcast and print media is all the British Nationalist parties need to maintain the deeply ingrained brainwashing of the naive and the gullible. The tide is slowly turning of course but with Brexit effective from March 2019, time is not on our side.

      The truth of this saying remains very poignant for the Yes Campaign: ‘You can fool some of the people all of the time and they are the ones to concentrate on.”

      I watched the Alex Rowley interview with Gordon Brewer today and if there was ever a man who has been brainwashed into believing Labour’s lies about the SNP it is surely him. Which offers a lesson about the brainwashed – they are so disconnected from their own mental and emotional functions they cannot think for themselves and cannot process new information normally. Ten years after Independence they will still be thinking ‘I hate the SNP’.

      Right now, the only hope I see is in the disintegration of English politics on the one hand and the clear thinking and resolve on the EU side. Apart from that, I’d be tempted to despair.

    84. Jason Smoothpiece says:

      We all know that the corrupt MSM and the Regime’s broadcasters won’t highlight the nonsense spoken by the Red Tories.

      But the Unions who have been fighting the SLabour controlled Glasgow Council for fair treatment for their low paid members will erupt over this, right union guys?….. guys?….

      They will be along shortly .. hate to use other folks patter but look is that a squirrel?

    85. yesindyref2 says:

      Ah well, if it is a ploy and the actor deserves an Oscar, there are others who deserve Oscar nominations as best supporting actors. Vote for me!

    86. Legerwood says:

      Robert J. Sutherland says:
      26 September, 2017 at 3:08 pm
      Alex Clark @ 13:49,

      The sad thing is that it’s likely that a large proportion of the audience (if not Ms Baxter herself, presumably) believe that those vile nats in Glasgow have run the place for years, and these false pretenders to their halo of righteousness have been persecuting their union sisters for the entire time.

      Or is the whole thing a total charade designed for public consumption?””


      It is not just that these Labour people are not telling the truth about what is happening in Scotland but that they are standing up at their own party conference and telling their own party colleagues these fairy tales.

      If they can do that to their fellow party members then doing it to the people of Scotland, as they do on a daily basis, is hardly going to give them sleepless nights.

      It is now Labour’s default position in Scotland – SNP bad, and whatever the SNP says we thought of it first.

      By the way, Labour wanting a country ‘For the many not the few’ was first said by Ms Sturgeon in a speech at Strathclyde Uni in December 2012

    87. Robert Peffers says:

      @Breeks says: 26 September, 2017 at 12:56 pm@

      “If only we had a Scottish Spitting Image, and of course a broadcasting network to air it….
      That would get our message to people.”

      I’m not too sure that it would get our message to the people we want to get to, Breeks. After all we have several excellent video programme makers already on-side and we have a good YouTube presence.

      Now last time I looked, (about 5 minutes ago), there were 699 Freeview TV Channels, (some duplicated with HD channels, and some channels without a programme broadcasting ATM.).

      There are 90 Radio Channels also on Freeview and there are Satellite Channels too. Yet it is my experience on doorsteps that the people we need to get to are restricting themselves to around 4 Radio Stations and 4 – 6 TV channels and you are lucky if you find one such household that, other than for, perhaps, the fitba results actually ever tunes to the two BBC News Channels.

      I doubt we would/could attract more than a few, (other than the already converted independence faithful), unless we bought in Strictly, The bake off, Coronation Street and EastEnders and we would only get the existing TV production teams old episodes as they are restricted by contracts to the existing channels who are showing the new episodes.

      The real Britnat numpties would not tune to an Indy Channel and the thicko Scots voters who vote for the Westminster Establishment probably do not even know there are hundreds of alternatives to their addiction programmes.

    88. Dan Huil says:

      It would be nice if this upcoming SNP convention provides an inspiring boost to all pro-indy supporters. I think we need it; if not deserve it.

    89. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Legerwood @ 16:35:

      […] ‘For the many not the few’ was first said by Ms Sturgeon in a speech at Strathclyde Uni in December 2012

      Oh, that’s a very interesting wee nugget – I didn’t know that.

      Another case of BritLab copying the SNP then claiming the higher ground.

      Definitely worth passing on!

    90. gus1940 says:

      Early this morning I posted a deliberately provocative comment on the story in The Herald re McDonnell’s PFI proposals.

      I expected a mini flood of attacking comments from the usual suspects but checking the item several times not only were there no negative comments on my submission but there were no further comments whatsoever on a story which featured highly in all the media.

      The whole news item and its comments has this afternoon been removed from the Main News Section and deposited in the Politics Section and sill nothing has been posted by anybody since I posted my original comment.

      What is The Herald up to? I find it astonishing that a report on such a high profile speech while having attracted 14 comments by early this morning has not attracted a single one since then.

      This is not the first time this sort of thing has happened when I have posted a comment – it is as if while they accepted the comment it does not suit their censors to accept any further comments on the item while not putting up the usual ‘comments are closed on this article’ message together with denying access to previously posted comments.

    91. Brian Powell says:

      Dan Huil

      Just curious, are you in the SNP?

    92. ronnie anderson says:

      At that point in the Labour conference i switched off ( for the sake of my sanity )

    93. Dan Huil says:

      @Brian Powell 5:02pm

      Good question. Ask me again after the conference.

    94. CameronB Brodie says:

      Social Class as Culture

      Social class is more than just how much money you have. It’s also the clothes you wear, the music you like, the school you go to—and has a strong influence on how you interact with others, according to the authors of a new article in Current Directions in Psychological Science, a journal of the Association for Psychological Science. People from lower classes have fundamentally different ways of thinking about the world than people in upper classes—a fact that should figure into debates on public policy, according to the authors.

      Changing cultural and social norms that support violence

      Working-Class Perspectives
      Activist Art in Working-Class Communities

    95. Alistair White says:

      People deserve the politicians they elect. Says a lot!

    96. manandboy says:

      Both Tory and Labour see in Brexit a path to power. And they both know being in power is the only way to access the really big money in the neo-Liberal world of taxpayer-owned asset stripping, exploitation and offshore tax havens. So they both push the UK destruct button.

      While pretending to do the right thing for Britain, so as to fool the electorate. Propaganda rules.

    97. Legerwood says:

      Robert J Sutherland @ 4.57

      Here is the link to the full text of Ms Sturgeon’s speech. The phrase is used in the 16th para down – note a lot of paragraphs are one sentence.

    98. Maryscot says:

      I have been trying to find Nicola Sturgeon’s speech online which she gave to Strathclyde uni on Dec 3rd 2012. Wanted to show it to someone but it appears to have been deleted or renamed everywhere I look. Any ideas?

    99. velofello says:

      @ Street Andrew: I’d give Wulls a pass mark. There is a Noble prize for fuskwittery – appointment to the House of “Lords”. And I agree with him, Joanna Baxter is a shoe -in…candidate, for a kick up the airse. I bet she practised her freedom fist pose in the mirror time and time again.

      Another Labour Joanna, or is it Johann? Lamont of …. Scots are not genetically programmed… musing,and Lamont is still trudging her glum way around Holyrood thanks to the d’Hondt voting nonsense.

      Slab motto: Lies are only Words”. Anyone remember their Latin? It might look posh in Latin and the Labour idiots would likely adopt it as their motto.

    100. Colin Alexander says:

      @Robert Peffers

      Aye the Romans also had client kings and an aristocratic elite among the subjugated peoples. Their job was to keep the natives pacified.

      The British copied that idea with the Indian Raj and Scottish devolution.

      First it was Labour, now it’s the SNP. WM’s current client queen is the FM, but a Boudicca she isn’t.


      Okay, I’ll say something positive. Credit to John Swinney for refusing to back down on the Westminster power grab of devolved powers during meetings with the UK Govt. I don’t expect it to last, but for as long as they defy the UK Govt and stand up for the devolution settlement – though devolution is mince- I will praise the SNP when they deserve it.

    101. heedtracker says:

      If that shower do get back in, we’re all fcuked.

      Mayor khan of London was very insulting about Scots that want to get shot of this ghastly union but it should be interesting hearing Lab’s no to Scots ref2 stuff.

    102. Alex Clark says:

      This £500 million settlement for the equal pay fiasco left over by Labour is a huge problem for whoever is leading Glasgow City Council. It’s more than the entire education budget and twice that raised per annum in council tax.

      How can it be paid?

      The simple truth is that it can’t be unless central government bails the out and allows the settlement to go ahead. That of course means that less can be spent by the Scottish government on all our public services that are their responsibility.

      If this happens then there has to be a possibility that council taxes will have to rise across the whole of Scotland to pay for this incompetence of the previous Labour administration in charge of GCC. Either that or face real cuts to all other budgets such as the NHS.

      No doubt Johanna Baxter and Sarwar will be back screaming at how the SNP are the party of austerity and council tax rises.

      It’s vitally important that those of us that know better make sure the blame is laid at those responsible as best we can.

    103. CameronB Brodie says:

      I’m a bit disappointed that the mayor of London is unable to value and respect a culture that is intrinsically different to that of England and metropolitan London, in particular. He displays a rather out-of-date outlook and the ethics of a political opportunist, IMHO.

      Old Labour, New Labour, One Nation Tory, New Right Tory, they are all very much of a one. None show respect to the principle of universal human rights and all proclaim Yoonion as the only truth.

    104. gus1940 says:

      BBC Scotland in full blast SNPbad mode in every ‘news’ bulletin today.

      According to a report from Tne Fraser of Allander Institute Scotland and its SNP Government face a disastrous end of the world type crisis due to our ageing population and increased Social Care Costs.

      What they fail to mention is the fact that exactly the same problem exists in England but it wouldn’t suit their agenda to mention that to the poor gullible fools who accept every bit of colonialist propaganda they excrete over the nation all day every day.

      And that is just one of the SNPbad stories on offer today.

    105. jfngw says:

      Full Reporting Shitelend tonight, goodness it must be the worst place to live in the world. Thankfully I’m reading Wings at the same time, it’s my BBC anti-dote.

    106. Maryscot says:

      @Colin, thanks so much for the link. Much appreciated.

    107. Andy-B says:

      BBC Shortbread news excelled tonight on negative stories about Scotland.

      I had to look out the window just to make sure I wasn’t living in a barren wasteland.

      Pity we can’t start our own tv channel I’m pretty sure it would be very popular, and would change minds from no to yes.

    108. Dan Huil says:

      Glad I don’t pay the bbc tax.

    109. yesindyref2 says:

      Had a quick scan of bits of it, this caught the eye “There is no doubt that Scotland has been stuck in a relatively weak growth cycle for over two years now. Economies go through cycles, sometimes operating above potential and other times below potential. To the extent that at least some of the recent weak performance in the Scottish economy is cyclical, we could see faster growth in Scotland over the short-term as the economy catches up with trend.

      It doesn’t specify what the reason is, but it would seem reasonable that it’s to do with oil, which apart from affecting offshore revenues, also affects onshore ones, which in spite of that have done well. So if they improve further, with oil being at its bottom anyway, from the point of view of GERS we could see even better results next year hopefully, reducing the Unionists cry “£15 billion defict, no £13.3 billion, no, it’s now £12 / £11 billion …” even further.

      Apart from that, I thought it was a good basis, as it highlights the problems quite dispassionately, including the effects of the UK’s fiscal consolidation – basically austerity and vain attempt to reduced the nominal deficit now expcted to rise to £100 billion in 2020 to 2021 because of Brexit. And if GERS improves over the next year after taht committee hearing, so much the better.

      And then there’s this: “Continuing as before is not an option if Scotland’s devolved budget is to be sustainable in the long term.

      which can be read in a whole load of different ways, “This is not a challenge just for the Scottish Government but for all political parties in Scotland. An open and transparent debate about the sustainability of the public finances – and the options for reform – is now essential.

      which could lead to all sorts of interesting demands and counter-demands.

    110. CameronB Brodie says:

      Re. our glorious BritNat ‘reality’.

      The Frankfurt School and British Cultural Studies: The Missed Articulation

      The Frankfurt School, Cultural Studies, and Regimes of Capital

      To a large extent, the Frankfurt school inaugurated critical studies of mass communication and culture, and thus produced an early model of cultural studies (see Kellner 1982, 1989a and 1995a). During the 1930s, the Frankfurt school developed a critical and transdisciplinary approach to cultural and communications studies, combining critique of political economy of the media, analysis of texts, and audience reception studies of the social and ideological effects of mass culture and communications. [2] They coined the term ‘culture industries’ to signify the process of the industrialization of mass-produced culture and the commercial imperatives which drove the system. The critical theorists analyzed all mass-mediated cultural artifacts within the context of industrial production, in which the commodities of the culture industries exhibited the same features as other products of mass production: commodification, standardization, and massification. The culture industries had the specific function, however, of providing ideological legitimation of the existing capitalist societies and of integrating individuals into the framework of the capitalist system.

      Adorno’s analyses of popular music (1978 [1932], 1941, 1982, and 1989), Lowenthal’s studies of popular literature and magazines (1984), Herzog’s studies of radio soap operas (1941), and the perspectives and critiques of mass culture developed in Horkheimer and Adorno’s famous study of the culture industries (1972 and Adorno 1991) provide many examples of the value of the Frankfurt school approach. Moreover, in their theories of the culture industries and critiques of mass culture, they were the first to systematically analyze and criticize mass-mediated culture and communications within critical social theory. They were the first social theorists to see the importance of what they called the ‘culture industries’ in the reproduction of contemporary societies, in which so-called mass culture and communications stand in the center of leisure activity, are important agents of socialization, mediators of political reality, and should thus be seen as major institutions of contemporary societies with a variety of economic, political, cultural and social effects. [3]

      Furthermore, they investigated the cultural industries in a political context as a form of the integration of the working class into capitalist societies. The Frankfurt school were one of the first neo-Marxian groups to examine the effects of mass culture and the rise of the consumer society on the working classes which were to be the instrument of revolution in the classical Marxian scenario. They also analyzed the ways that the culture industries and consumer society were stabilizing contemporary capitalism and accordingly sought new strategies for political change, agencies of political transformation, and models for political emancipation that could serve as norms of social critique and goals for political struggle. This project required rethinking the Marxian project and produced many important contributions — as well as some problematical positions….

    111. yesindyref2 says:

      Jeez, getting very careless. The UK Deficit isn’t “nominal”, that was supposed to be on the cycle / GERS paragraph, and so was the thing about GERS improving. Oh for an edit facitlity!

    112. Andy-B says:

      Gus 1940.

      “The track record of the Fraser of Allander Institute since has shown that their economic analysis has been used to promote a particular economic ideology, namely market and neo-liberal economics.”

      Looks like the FoAI, is another GERS, to be used to beat Scotland.

    113. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi velofello at 5:47 pm.

      You typed,
      “Slab motto: Lies are only Words”. Anyone remember their Latin? It might look posh in Latin and the Labour idiots would likely adopt it as their motto.”

      Google translate offers “Verbis simpliciter falsa” as a translation for “Lies are simply words”.

    114. yesindyref2 says:

      Indeed, but it (FoAI) does need to keep a good reputation, and with Richard Murphy on the case, perhaps it’s starting to clean up its act, it needs to.

    115. Robert Graham says:

      I really hope the next FMQs , Nicola Sturgeon drops the nicy nice long informative answers to the bloody moronic questions she is usually asked .
      Go for the bleedn throat get every political message out there.
      the bbc cant edit out or tamper with the feed from Holyrood .

      Make sure the rest of the country knows exactly what is going on , highlight what Glasgow Aberdeen councils have been up to and any other council who decides to join the gang ,

      They single handedly incurred the debt , therefore the taxpayers of the cities involved own the debt not the rest of scotland .

      This might have to be done through planted questions by SNP MSPs , this is now dirty get stuck in , being nice hasn’t worked with these snakes

    116. Alex Clark says:

      I doubt there is such a thing as an independent think tank operating in the UK. Every last one of them is beholden to their funders whether that is central government or big business.

      One thing is certain you won’t see any of them on Indiegogo or GofundMe trying to raise money from the little people.

      Just as Wings Over Scotland has an agenda to raise the support for Independence so to do these think tanks. The main difference is that these lot have millions in funding we can only raise a fraction of that. Still David did beat Goliath so I hear and the underdog can have it’s day.

      By the way, I agree with the sentiment of not paying the propaganda tax. Why pay to be lied to. Your money would be better spent elsewhere. Leave them with crumbs from Scotland’s table and show them that many in Scotland mean business and will not be conned.

    117. Robert Peffers says:

      @Colin Alexander says: 26 September, 2017 at 5:49 pm:

      “Okay, I’ll say something positive.

      Who are you trying to kid on, Colin?
      Positive my arse – you couldn’t be positive about the SNP if your life depended upon it.

      I’ve been dealing with anti-SNP people for the best part of 70 years now and I had your type tabbed by your second post. The laughable thing about certain people is that if the party closest to their personal political views is the SNP they have built up such a wall of hatred against the SNP they will exhibit that hate no matter how hard they try to disguise it.

      Just like Labour are doing right now – after many years of power in Scotland and sometimes while also in power at Westminster they spoke a good game but played like dumplings.

      They are now attempting to claim the things the SNP are doing in practice are Labour ideas but that Labour in power have never implemented.

      They were in power and you could, (almost), count the houses they built on one hand yet they have the brass neck to complain about the SNP not building enough affordable homes.

      It comes from the leftie sense of personal entitlement and their overriding belief they should be in power because they just know they are always right. Labour show this trait but the leftie fringe among them hold to this trait to the exclusion of all else.

      I tend towards socialism. That is real socialism, not the Labour party version, nor is it that of the Communist party.

      It is the one others on this thread are talking about in a different context – government for the many – not government for the few. Neither is it dogmatic as is the mantras of the Leftie Labour. Yet I have never been able to stomach the mantras of the Labour Party.

      You cannot run a country with mantra like rules. You must consider every situation in the light of the present situation as it is at the moment you are faced with that situation. Yet Labour have been critical of Salmond’s policy claiming he had changed his mind. Alex replied along the lines of, “That was then – this is now”. In other words you adopt what is right for the situation NOW not what it was back then.

      While I was typing that Radio Jockland was attempting to rubbish the SG’s handling of the NHS, and the Police Scotland record on sex crime figures yet the Scottish NHS and Police Scotland crime figures are by far the best in the United Kingdom.

      It isn’t the SNP but Labour themselves, and the left in particular, that are killing themselves off.

    118. yesindyref2 says:

      @Dan Huil
      So the Kurds and Catalans are prepared to take the real risk of reprisals for even having a referendum, and some who shall remain nameless in The National is (and checked out from the twitter feed about it) even afraid to hold one in case of losing it “We’ll just kick it into the long grass”.

      As the Irish said about the NO vote “Scotland has no balls”.

    119. CameronB Brodie says:

      This is the 21st century, not the age of satanic mills. Your fighting a fight that was lost long ago, in Britain. Anglo-American neo-liberals aims to change the nature of human liberty through the use of economic force, and are aligned with the New Right. Scotland can choose another direction to Tory England, which would allow ethical approaches to development. BLiS___d could help, but if only you weren’t so blood-and-soil in outlook and tribal in practice.

      Postmodernism and the “Culture Turn” in Marxist Theory

      The “culture turn” is a dynamic process that since the nineteenth century has unfolded in the worlds of theory, art, and politics. The reference to a “culture turn” captures a widespread movement – played out differently in various disciplines, nations, and traditions – that emphasizes the importance of art and culture for education, moral growth, and social criticism and change. By the 1980s, this development led to an explosion in forms of “cultural studies,” “identity politics,” and “multiculturalism” in response to changes in the structure of capitalism and relationships among economic, cultural, and political institutions.

      Postmodernity vs the Postmodern vs Postmodernism
      Approaching the Main Questions

      Post and Late Modern Perspectives on Society and Identity

    120. Dan Huil says:

      The time is fast approaching for a decision on our independence. It would appear some politicians don’t realize, or refuse to realize, it’s now or never.

      Indyref2 must be called immediately after brexit in March 2019, to be held before the next Holyrood election.

      Not to do so would certainly mean genitalia dispareo.

    121. Legerwood says:

      Maryscot @ 5.47pm

      The link to the speech in in my post just above your post. Here it is again

    122. One_Scot says:

      Apparently Police are to take Over Polling Stations in Catalonia to thwart Independence ballot

      All a bit worrying.

    123. Dr Jim says:

      Like Scottish Labour leaders before her Kezia Dugdale is brandishing a knife

    124. Morgatron says:

      What a fucking slack jawed Cherie Blair lookalike liar .

    125. Rock says:

      “The party doggedly keeps acting as if voters have the memory of goldfish”

      At least 20% do.

      But then the most stupid people on earth are in Scotland, in my humble opinion.

    126. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Dan Huil @ 19:56,

      I believe the correct position is “after the terms are known and before Brexit has occurred”. So that we can know what the deal is and act meaningfully upon it, rather than having it forced upon us against our will.

      A proposition that any true democrat would just naturally agree with, wouldn’t you think?

    127. Rock says:


      “Now The Rev has provided the clear story on this, it is up to us to ensure that it is disseminated as widely as possible.”

      The starting point should be a front page top headline article in the “independence supporting” The National.

      I trust that The National’s lobbyists here will make sure it happens.

      Or the 8,000 diehard independence supporters who buy it will stop buying it.

    128. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      There’s me thinking that Cunning(hame) was a wee nod to the Comedy that is Labour Hame (The Blarite Red Tory Blog of Funky Duncy Hotdog Stall)


      But it turns out it is Cunninghame North.

      The Hypocrisy of Labour, however knows know end.

      Just look at the actions of people like Tom Watson.

      Remember last year he was plunging a knife in the leaders back in the hope the Blairites of the PLP could regain power.

      Now Tom Watson is cheerleader in Chief for “OOOOHHHHHH, Jerrrrrremmmmy Coooooooorrrrbbbbbynnnnnn”

      British Labour (whether the main event or the Scotch Branch Office) will:


      Then once they get the power they will do what Stu points out they did during the 13 years of its last government, when it held all the levers of power at Westminster AND Holyrood AND most councils across Scotland.

      It is what British Labour have always done.


      ‘cos that’s the way you Earn the Ermine.

    129. Rock says:

      Dave McEwan Hill,

      “Kezia Dugdale’s attack on the Labour Party in today’s Record might be significant.”

      Might or might not be, but I don’t want this woman anywhere near the independence campaign.

      She is the biggest liar and hypocrite of them all.

    130. CameronB Brodie says:

      You certainly don’t know how to make friends and influence people. Never heard of structural poverty or cultural impoverishment? Got any other unpleasant prejudices you might wish to air?

    131. Dan Huil says:

      @Robert J. Sutherland

      “…after the terms are known and before Brexit has occurred”.

      Brexit will happen in March 2019. The terms will be known by then. Any transitional period is irrelevant.

      Sorry, Robert, I’ve no idea what a “true” democrat is. As you probably gathered.

    132. yesindyref2 says:

      Never saw a link to this anywhere, just looked for it, all I read was just a reference to Salmond saying something about it during the Edinburgh festival. The 2016 Scotcen report ran from Jan to Dec 2016 so is the most current one. Page 2 of this has the graph of support for Indy:

      Note that in 2014 support for Indy was 33%, but the Ref gave 45%. 2016 shows 46%, so Indy Ref 2 would be – what exactly (maybe 56% YES)? Look also at that nice upwards line – 2017 52% if it kept going (61% YES).

      From page 5
      2014 33% Indy, 50% Devo, 7% Abolish
      2016 46% Indy, 42% Devo, 8% Abolish

      so roughly 12% of that 57% voted YES in 2014 = 45%
      so roughly 10% of that 50% could reasonably vote YES in 2016/17 = 56% YES, and we have a clear winner, its Indy next Ref.

      Not only that but some poll “apparently” recently said 19% wanted to abolish Holyrood.

      I smell dog pooh, all over my shoe. And chicken pooh.


    133. galamcennalath says:

      yesindyref2 says:

      As the Irish said about the NO vote “Scotland has no balls”.

      I stand to be corrected, if someone has a deeper understanding of Irish history than I have, but I don’t think the Irish ever had an independence referendum.

      If they had, they may have voted YES. However, it is possible that across Ireland as a whole, they may not.

      My understanding is that the democratic basis for Ireland arguing for self determination was the 1918 general election.

      It was a FPTP WM election (except two seats). Main parties …

      Sinn Fein 46.9% 73 seats – Independence
      Irish Unionist 25.3% 22 seats – Continued Union
      Irish Parliamentary Party 21.7% 6 seats – Limited Home Rule within the UK

      It is difficult to guess (IMO) how these results would have translated into a Yes/No referendum, had that been politically possible.

      Then followed three years of war between the IRA and UK forces. The negotiations and the Anglo Irish Treaty of 1921 which created the Irish Free State with dominion status and kept part of Ulster in the UK.

      Then followed the Irish Civil 1922-23 which cost more lives than the previous 3year struggle with the UK.

      I draw attention to all this because it all represents a path Scotland does not want to follow!

      We want a democratic referendum which is the accepted domestically and internationally.

    134. heedtracker says:

      Not to do so would certainly mean genitalia dispareo.

      Scots indy refs do seem to be incredibly good for SNP MP numbers too.

      Leonard and Anas were on BBC r4 Tory Today news this morn, and that’s as far as I got.

      Red or blue, the UKOK tories are very creepy people. This morn’s BBC r4 tory creep, introduced American leftie progressive Naomi Klein as a “fan” of Bernie Sanders. She thinks JC is a winner too though.

    135. Reluctant Nationalist says:

      The red-brick SJW version of Hasbara seems to be malfunctioning. It doesn’t seem to be self-aware – particularly regarding its own genesis in destructive negativity – and is about as incongruous as the lady who occasionally informs comment sections how much $$$ she was able to make working from home.

      It seems to have been spurned on by something, ignoring the protocol ‘take it to off-topic’, instead opting for a ‘quantity over quality’ response accompanied by the faint sound of an angry chimpanzee; and its heuristic process seems to be fatally glitched, stuck in a permanent loop, getting drunk on the smell of its own digital farts.

      Hmmm. My analysis suggests that this is normative for such an entity, though, especially with so few response options in its lookup table. NGOs often produce such programs that break, as no matter how much money you throw at them, it won’t matter if the source code is flawed.

    136. yesindyref2 says:

      @Dan Huil
      RJS is right, it’s after the terms are known but before Brexit so Brexit becomes rUKexit, or even fUKexit we’re staying.

    137. yesindyref2 says:

      “2014 33% Indy, 50% Devo, 7% Abolish [90%]
      2016 46% Indy, 42% Devo, 8% Abolish [96%]”

      Don’t add up to 100% of course so projections less but only slightly for 2016 / 17.

    138. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Dan Huil @ 20:32

      I never mentioned a “transitional arrangement”, so I don’t know where you dragged that from. And personally I’m very happy to have IR2 just as soon as possible.

      But since you mention it, if there is a transition period for the rUK leaving and it happens to help Scotland to disentangle more expeditiously from England, I don’t mind in the least.

      As to the difference between real and fake, if you don’t know that by now, I really can’t help you…

    139. Dan Huil says:

      @yesidyref2 & RJS

      Indyref2 before March 2019?

    140. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Dan Huil @ 20:48,

      The Brexit terms have to be up for ratification by the EU27 6 months before 29.March.2019, so by rights it should be then.

      Mind you, the way things are (not) going, it’s hard to see things being settled by that point. What happens then is anybody’s guess, hence the current “reset”.

      Before then though the Great Takeover Bill (or whatever it’s currently called) trundles along. That could throw the fat in the fire, constitutionally speaking (and hopefully also politically speaking) well before any formal exit. That may be the one to look out for first.

    141. ben madigan says:

      don’t want to panic anyone but – do you think there’s any truth to this rumour?

      J.J. Patrick? @J_amesp 2 h ago

      Gathering flow of rumours May is going to trigger a walk out of Brexit negotiations as early as tomorrow. Single Market trigger in question.

      Surely she’d wait until this week’s negotiations are over?

    142. yesindyref2 says:

      Here’s the complete list of ScotCen surveys, scroll down to the end just above notes / references

      Support for Indy 23% (out of 95% = 24%) before the campaigns really started.

      By my calculations support for Indy could be 130% by 2030, would that be safe enough for our Pete?

    143. yesindyref2 says:

      @Dan Huil
      Yup, perfect, maybe a couple of weeks before Brexit date 29th March to give the EU27 time to react and just chuck the rUK out, leaving us in limbo. I can dance if I want to 🙂

    144. geeo says:

      @ben madigan.

      Why would that panic anyone ?

      Article 50 states very clearly that a 2 year period must pass before the uk can leave.

      Theresa can stomp her feet and walk out all she likes, but it is a FACT that brexit CANNOT happen until 29/3/2019.

    145. Dan Huil says:

      @RJS 9:02pm

      “The Brexit terms have to be up for ratification by the EU27 6 months before 29.March.2019, so by rights it should be then.”

      I’d settle for that, Robert. And I can understand [honest] NS and the Scottish government being careful in their timing, it’s just that I wish they’d inject a bit more heat and passion into the mix. A bit more pro-indy fat into the fire.

      As I said above the upcoming conference is an ideal opportunity. Cheers.

    146. The independent(snigger) Fraser of Allander is run by the guy Graeme Roy that produced the now laughable GERS figures pish for Government,

      getting the top job at the independent (snigger) institute after nearly a decade making up GERS figures pish for Government does in no way compromise the output of the independent (snigger) Fraser institute.

    147. yesindyref2 says:

      @geeo (A50)

      3. The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period.

      A withdrawal agreement has 2 sides and both have to agree for there to be an agreement, it seems unlikely the EU27 wpild voluntarily give up 1 year’s contributions, or allow the UK to escape without some agreementsm like debt and EU citizen rights.

      So unless the UK wants to be known worldwide as a traty breaker (not repealer), and be taken to I think it would be the ICJ for completion of contracts signed (i.e. omney like £100 billion), it’s stuch fast until 2 years, or the EU27 voluntarily lets it go.

    148. yesindyref2 says:

      OT – well what isn’t?
      Good program on BBC4 about Vietnam, pre-Americans except unmarked transports to try to help the French. I didn’t read much about Vietnam or Korea, gap in my interest for some reason. But this tells it as it was, and curious timing with the current North Korean situation.

      BBC really is in two halves, the BBC1 propaganda machine going ra ra let’s have a nuclear holocaust, oh what jolly japes, pass the chanpers, while BBC2 and 4, maybe 3, do open documentaries, perhaps also to counter the bias of BBC1.

    149. louis.b.argyll says:

      Yesindyref2, slow down that typing, I know it’s not easy these days..

    150. louis.b.argyll says:

      Aye, but the more pliable demographics (those easiest to keep fooled) primary watch BBC1 all the f+++++g time, so any balance is ‘accidentally”weighed’ towards feeding their blind loyalty.

    151. heedtracker says:

      Scotland could be part of this Pres Macron EU vision, but instead we’re being lined up for another generation of reaming, UKOK red and blue tory style. Bloody hell life in teamGB sucks.

    152. ScottieDog says:

      Regards FoAI, yes they are a neoliberal organisation buying into the ‘household analogy’ to describe govt finances. I wouldn’t say they are expressly against independence but they ARE peddling economic myths. Sadly so does the majority of economists in the UK.
      Exceptions to this would be people like
      Steve keen
      Richard Murphy
      Bill Mitchell (spoke at labour conference fringe event yesterday)

    153. Kestral says:

      At a total guess I would say the son had to register the right to appeal, mean God forbid they were challenged in the future as to why the so easily payed out to fix labour mess….

      ps there is a complicite worker union involved in this
      By the way this will cripple huge part of gcc budget

    154. Kestral says:

      Son =snp yah`d think my kindle would fecking learn

    155. Meg merrilees says:

      Dan hurl

      I can understand your frustration to get the next Indy ref under way but , if the SNP begin to make any sort of positive noises about indy and are seen to be even slightly gearing up for the fight, can you imagine how much shit etc the other half of the Union will start to throw at us?
      It’s going to be really dirty this time round so we have to try and catch them ‘with their pants down’ so to speak… and it might be a very short campaign.

    156. manandboy says:

      As Louis Brandeis said: “We may have democracy, or we may have wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can’t have both.”
      I guess we don’t have democracy in the UK then, and most certainly not in Scotland. Shhh, let’s keep it a secret-No voters don’t know yet.

    157. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      Wonder if BritNat Labour in Scotland will agree that what’s good for NornIron is good enough for Scotland??

      Owen Smith, remember him?

      Last summers BritNat Parliamentary Labour Party Hero (Kezia Dugdale, Ian Murray and Tom Watsons felt very strongly about that).

      “Northern Ireland should be allowed effectively to remain part of the European Union, Owen Smith has demanded, in comments that risk breaching Labour’s fragile truce on Brexit.”

      “Mr Smith, the shadow Northern Ireland secretary, told an event organised by Sinn Fein at Labour’s party conference that a special status “within the EU and as part of Britain” was the only solution to the problems caused for the province by Britain’s departure from the bloc.”

      or will this be another example like that of Jezza Corbyns Irish Independence Good, Scottish Independence Baaad Hypocrisy.

    158. CameronB Brodie says:

      It takes skill to identify quality.

    159. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Rock at 8.27

      What a infantile comment. Rather sums you up. You don’t want the until recently leader of the Labour Party in Scotland to come to us?

      I would like to think that you are just stupid.

    160. CameronB Brodie says:

      It takes certain skills to define and identify quality.

    161. cirsium says:

      @yesindyref2, 9.41pm

      OT. If that’s the Ken Burns’ programme, it should be viewed with caution.
      John Pilger’s view
      the CIA’s torture/murder project, Operation Phoenix, was developed in the Vietnam War.

    162. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Meg merrilees @ 22:13,

      Yes, Meg, I think it will necessarily be a very short campaign, whenever it happens.

      Which may be just as well, given all this democracy-fatigue we seem to be “suffering” from at the moment. (“First world problems” and all that.)

      But like many, I do wish there was a somewhat juicier bone to chew on in the meantime.

      (PS: I’ve been having problems on-and-off connecting to WoS this evening, but not to anywhere else. Is this just me, or…?)

    163. CameronB Brodie says:

      It also takes certain skills to be able to spot the inter-contentedness of issues, especially in a manner that is reflex of the comments of others.

    164. CameronB Brodie says:

      Reluctant Nationalist
      If you to discuss matter further, I’ll see you in Quarantine.

    165. louis.b.argyll says:

      Scotgov should consider takeing legal action against the UK Labour Party for the unnecessary PFI debt caused by willful negligent regard for prudence.

      If we prove ideological malpractice, with a hint of nepotism/malice then the PFI contracts will be laughed out of court and thenrestructured IN THE PUBLIC INTEREST.

    166. Valerie says:

      @ Ben Madigan 9.05pm

      Yes, I think there is truth in that. James Patrick is ex Met Whistleblower turned journalist, and is very astute thus far. He also has a source in No 10.

      Walking out this week seems logical.

      Tusk was in No 10 this morning, so I’m sure May was being told that the 4 pillars are immovable – for the umpteenth time. Her Florence speech contained nothing, and was widely mocked as such.

      Tory conference coming up, so she will sweep in on the accolades of Boris and Rees Mogg if she walks now.

      Walking now will overshadow any snake oil being sold by Corbyn, and he is tipped to play up their in fighting. Walking out nips that in the bud.

      One theory was they hoped Merkel would topple, so had to wait until now.

      Have to say I think all of that makes sense now, because from March until now now has been nothing but one long farce. No planning has ever been done since June, 2016, and A 50 was triggered without any plan.

      We are leaving Mar.2019. I don’t see any 2 year transition, because it is widely believed UK will walk without a deal, saying they bent over backwards to negotiate.

    167. yesindyref2 says:

      Don’t worry, I’m used to the gloss that’s put on these things. It’s what they do say that’s interesting, you can always guess or presume there’s things they don’t say.

      From my look at that tweet string, they’re from March, though his comment is something like it’s still on. Open mind 🙂

    168. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Valerie @ 23:13,

      All of what you say is eerily plausible, Val.

      I can well see an attempt to pin the blame on an “intransigent and inflexible” EU as far as the English public are concerned, but what I can’t see is how they are going to massage the consequences as far as the markets are concerned.

      Look what’s happened to the UK credit rating already, and the fun ain’t even started in earnest yet. What happens eg. when there are long HGV tailbacks at the Channel ports and food supplies begin to run out?

      Watching ultras like hardline rightwing zoomer Ruth Lea the other day, these people really do appear to believe they can make it fly from day zero hour zero. Maybe it’s just a giant bluff, or totally delusional. Who knows?

      (I tend to favour the latter, though.)

    169. Still Positive says:

      Was replying to a message on my answering machine this evening to a much younger SNP branch member when he told me 2 things.

      1. The for the many, not the few is a corruption of something from Star Trek and he was interested that NS as Deputy FM used it when AS is a noted Star Trek fan.

      2. He has met Richard Leonard and regardless of the fact he has worked for a trade union for many years, he is not a socialist but a Blairite.

      I trust his judgement as he, personally, wants to nationalise the busses.

    170. Valerie says:


      Been talking to him this evening, along with others, all still very valid. Yes, he has predicted a number of events, which is why I think his reasoning is sound.

      Also tonight, great upset among lawyers and EU Nationals. Home Office website was changed in last hour to state

      Your residency card will not be valid when UK leaves the EU.

      The UK will never accept the ECJ overseeing anything they do, hence why I think no transition period – EU would insist ECJ stays in place to protect Rights and EU Nationals.

      The new statement, as was pointed out, also reflects the EU Withdrawal Bill, even though it’s not law.

      But, when has that ever mattered to this gov’t?

    171. William Wallace says:

      @ RJS

      No had any bather here.

    172. Jock McDonnell says:

      They can withdraw from the negotiations but they still need to wait til march 2019 before they are out of the eu. I don’t expect much from the negotiations but there is little reason to walk out of the room. It would be calamitous for the uk. Better to bullshit and hope something turns up.

      While we can think of lots of potential positive events and perhaps comments from the eu, we need to be realistic and accept the likelihood of having to do scotref all on our own. All nations look after their own interests & Scotland won’t be high on the priorities of other countries, which is why it’s so dumb that we didn’t vote Yes last time, even just to gain some leverage. World class stupid.

    173. yesindyref2 says:

      Pretty scary but fits May’s autocratic nature. She doesn’t respect parliament – any parliament. If she doesn’t like a law, she’ll change it. Her whole party are being taken for mugs.

    174. Valerie says:

      Oh, there’s a surprise.

      Wednesday edition of Daily Express.

      Britain prepares for no deal on Brexit, due to arrogance of EU.

      Yes, the A50 will run until Mar. 2019, but by walking out now, it serves many purposes.

      No debate on divorce bill, if they pay anything. Yes, they renege on legal obligations, but Trump won’t care about that, because that is realistically the only port of call for trade, and they need to feed the country.

      No talk about Ireland and Border. Varadkar can’t veto any deal, as was speculated.

      No chat about EU Nationals, and they really don’t care about them.

      Get EU Withdrawal Bill through, get immigration sorted. Get work started with USA. Ensure all our clients in Arms Trade happy.

      Therefore, if Scotland has any occasion to have their Rights protected, we better get it sorted by Mar.2019.

    175. schrodingers cat says:

      read the news you are not getting

      J.J. Patrick? @J_amesp

      Gathering flow of rumours May is going to trigger a walk out of Brexit negotiations as early as tomorrow. Single Market trigger in question.

    176. schrodingers cat says:

      Jock McDonnell says:
      They can withdraw from the negotiations but they still need to wait til march 2019 before they are out of the eu

      I’m unsure if this is correct Jock, cant treeza walk out and also announce we are leaving?

      if she does walk out, what is the point of hanging about? not being able to negotiate any treaties until spring 2019 isnt going to help WM?

      i’d like to see some discussion btl clarifying this point

      genuine question

    177. yesindyref2 says:

      Up above was the appropriate bit from Article 50, and my take on it.

      I say she can’t go till 2 years, or the EU agrees, else she’s breaking the Lisbon Treaty. Which would make the 50,000 treaties the UK has signed similarly worthless, including NATO, UN, peace with Germany, France, Russia, whoever!

    178. geeo says:

      This was brought up on Sky news at the Florence speech.

      It was suggested TM would walk away with No deal.

      An expert on EU law stated that a stance of No Deal meant 100% not being able to leave the EU until March 29th 2019.

      They COULD leave early if they cut a deal before march 2019 and the EU ratified it, but that was frankly a fanciful notion considering talks are a shambles.

      Even if they did agree a deal, the EU would STILL take 6 months to ratify it, allowing time for indyref2 to be organised before official brexit.

    179. schrodingers cat says:

      walking out of negotiations is within treezas power,

      the fact that waiting around till 2019 to officially exit could and probably will be damaging to uk.

      i think they can announce they have left, regardless of treaty obligations, it is a question of which is more damaging, not legal precedent

      it would kick any idea of any transitional deal into the long grass though.

      wto rules regardless, leaving without agreement or infrastucture in place to deal with exports and imports to and from the uk/eu or a visa system for people, or an agreement on planes and ships etc, will push the uk into a world of pain.

      if treeza walks, i would support putting indyref2 back on the table, i think a window may be about to open for us. keep a close eye on this dads

    180. schrodingers cat says:

      @geeo and dads

      both of you make rational and logically comments

      unfortunately, westminster is devoid of people capable of such thought processes

      just because walking out is a bad idea, doesnt mean they wont do it

      for all those clambering for indyref2 now, mps to walk out, udi etc.
      the moment is close, we need to be ready

    181. Liz g says:

      Well for what it’s worth my tuppence worth is..
      If the need to secure Scotland outweighed the need for a deal,in terms of England’s actual survival.
      Then they will walk with no deal.

      If we are right about our value (and I think we are) then May can’t afford to care what the rest of the world thinks.
      Especially if the US isn’t too fussed.

      She need’s to take her best shot at securing Scotland, and her history at trying to win a vote I think would tend to have her decide not to risk one.
      But Rather depend on the 2014 result to give her the authority to put any arrangement she see’s fit to secure the Union in place.

      Let’s face it ALL of Westminster will help her do it!
      She said from day one she would NEVER let anyone break up the Union… everyone concentrated on the precious bit,but I don’t think we paid enough attention to the Paisley impersonation!

      Mibbi that’s why the English Parliament is rolling over with it’s Sovereignty,it’s no Brexit they are going to force through.
      It’s some new act of the Union?
      We will certainty have a fight on our hand’s right enough!

    182. yesindyref2 says:

      The EU could agree to let them go as long as they pay for instance, but breaking a treaty is different from ending it.

      Article 56 of the Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties provides that where a treaty is silent over whether or not it can be denounced there is a rebuttable presumption that it cannot be unilaterally denounced unless:

      it can be shown that the parties intended to admit the possibility, or
      a right of withdrawal can be inferred from the terms of the treaty.

      The Lisbon Treaty has a specific clause for withdrawal from the Treaties, so not to follow the terms of that clause but end the Treaty anyway, would make its upholding of treaties suspect, also conventions like the chemical weapons, non-nuclear proliferation, the WTO …

      Treaties do get “bent”, depends on how the rest of the world would see it. Including the EU of course, how would they react to a pariah state.

      Old treaties can become extinguished, as Crawford & Boyle tried to argue about the Treaty of Union (not the Acts), But Lisbon entered into force on 1 December 2009.

      I actually doubt May would get Royal Assent, even if the UK Parliament did pass the end withdrawal bill.

    183. Liz g says:

      Also let’s no forget.
      They actually know how much oil and gas are in the new Field’s.
      As did Cameron before he allowed the Brexit vote in the first place.
      Mibbi they don’t need the EU any more and they have dreams of being the new Saudi.
      And the EU jumping about not to upset them as evey one does to Saudi right now…..just sayin ….it’s no impossible..aye !

    184. yesindyref2 says:

      So the UK breaks the Lisbon Treaty and therefore is suspect of no longer being a signator to the Convention of Treaties. So the UN in emergency session kicks it out of the security council, the US which still needs some world approval and contact with the EU withdraws support for Trident, which though operationally independent needs the maintenance and therefore expires in say 9 months as a dud – what does the UK do, fire off all its nukes in a last minute show of defiance?

      The UN imposes sanctions and a blockade is set up, but because the UK is no longer considered a signator of UNCLOS, it has a 12 nm territorial waters limit, not a 200 nm EEZ, so it loses its oil. It does get to fish in the 12 nm, rowing boats as the oil ran out. The pound is no longer fully tradeable, a loaf of bread costs £10,525 and rising. It’s not self-sufficient so the International Red Cross arrange food parcel drops. Fuel soon runs out, so the RN is stranded in port. Essential parts for the grid are not available, so it’s not just a brownout, it’s a blackout and back to candles and oil lamps, oops, not oil lamps, no oil.

      You think the UK is a basket case now?

      I know I know, but a last post for a bit of fun – or is it?

    185. yesindyref2 says:

      Meanwhile Scotland has declared UDI, and is smuggling food parcels into the North of England. Refugees welcome!

    186. Andy Anderson says:

      Thanks Stu for your article and also everyone else for your comments. Interesting and always educational. It is a pity we could not get every no voter to read this blog for three months. I am sure those with an enquiring brain would wake up and smell the coffee.

    187. Petra says:

      I’m in Arran chilling out right on the seafront at Lochranza (plus having to do some work of course). Or I was until I checked into Wings when I got home!

      Well done to you Stu for outing these hypocritical b*stards once AGAIN. Can anyone believe this? That bunch of totally corrupt morons sat back for decades and let Glasgow suffer, not prosper. There’s a report somewhere (research findings) in fact that shows that Westminster in cahoots with their BritNat Labour employees in Scotland totally decimated Glasgow over time and I wonder why? Concerted? I’d say yes. The term Red Clydesider comes to mind. My mind. Quell the miners. Quell anyone with half a brain and a whole lot of brawn. Big threat to the Establishment.

      On to the Equal Pay case / s issue now. Glasgow City Council was doing the dirty on female public sector workers LONG before the case mentioned on here. They’ve always deemed female employees such as carers, home care workers and so on to be doing ‘mothers work’ and as such felt that they were paying women for doing nought at all. Doing them a favour by throwing a few crumbs their way. Resented paying them one penny.

      Pass on their PFI and MANY equal pay case ‘costs’ (and MANY more EPC costs yet to come) to the SNP councillors? Next up. Private health care companies in Glasgow haven’t received a penny, over the last 2 years, from GCC. Money that the SG gave to GCC to pass on to HC companies to deal with the bed blocking issue. And where did much of the Commonwealth Games money go to? Heard anything about that one yet? All hush, hush. The SNP councillors in Glasgow sure have their work cut out for them now. Another poisoned chalice. As the lazy, corrupt you know whats move on the SNP councillors will be working from now to doomsday trying to make sense of it all. Things will be SO bad they’ll think of hiding it from the Scots / the World in general but NO just GET IT RIGHT OUT THERE.

      I was heavily involved with a number of Equal Pay cases in the 90’s two of which went all the way to the House of Lords. Wallace versus Strathclyde Regional Council and Marshall versus Strathclyde Regional Council. They dragged on for so long that SRC reverted back to being the Councils as we know them now, so it became Wallace and others (teachers) versus Glasgow City Council and others (other councils across Scotland) and Marshall (Special Needs Instructors) versus Glasgow City Council and others.

      I could write a book on this and maybe I will one day, if I ever find the time to do so. I can’t cover years of, the day in and day out of absolute stress and misery, skullduggery on here. I can’t even begin to tell you what was really going on, and who was really involved, due to the possibility of being hit with further court proceedings. I’ve ‘suffered’ 4 legal proceedings already covering a period of over 7 years. But hey looking on the bright side I won 3 court cases against all odds. Worked my butt off to do so. More than anything I put the frighteners right up an Establishment that thinks that it has the upper hand against the poor, wee, stupid (Scottish?) guy or gal.

      Getting back to the term skullduggery. Watching my step. Looking at terms like lawyers (on both sides), the Councils, schools, Unions, Westminster, Tony Blair, Donald Dewar and so on.

      Looking at cases that were disgraceful. Most disgraceful. Let’s look at Marshall and others versus Glasgow City Council and others.

      Mrs Marshall, Jessica Marshall, worked as an instructor in a special school in Glasgow. Names and terms change over time but that was the term used for schools that catered for children with complex needs (severe and profound) across Scotland in the 90’s. For decades the staff in such schools (Care Centres previously) came from mostly caring professions and had a nursing or nursery nurse background. Later they also attended Langside College for a year on a full time course (24×7 intensive) to become qualified instructors. As time went on the children, some of whom functioned at a pre-birth level, were deemed to be fit to be educated (eh! … under Labour of course) so with ‘education’ being the name of the game teachers were fired into these schools. The teachers had been trained to teach the 3 R’s. Not one of these children would ever manage to read, write or count. FAR from it in fact. And to make matters worse it would seem that the teachers who appeared on the special needs scene accounted for those who had been absolute duffers in mainstream schools. FAILURES. Failures that the instructors were left to carry.

      Time went on and that saw Instructors, accounting for 95% of Heads in fact, running special needs schools right across Scotland. In some cases both the Head of School and Depute Head in a particular school were instructors (as they were brilliant – highly intelligent, caring and kind). The Scottish instructor heads (and staff members) were also at the forefront of new innovations right across the UK. Chairing seminars and so on.

      Teacher Heads and Deputes (VERY few of them) were earning at least 33% more pay (with their counterpart instructors supporting them). It culminated with the instructor heads going to Harper MacLeod solicitors and requesting that they take on board an Equal Pay case against SRC by using a male head of school, teacher, as a comparator. Harper MacLeod jumped at it, cut and dry, and the case was settled out of court. The instructor heads and depute heads were regraded on a par with teachers, received back pay, pension rights and so on.

      Harper MacLeod then contacted the non-promoted instructors in schools. Eight test cases were chosen. One was eventually dropped. They attended Glasgow Tribunal over approximately 60 days covering a year and a half. The ‘Establishment’ employed a QC, Ian Truscott, to fight a handful of ordinary educators at an employment tribunal in Glasgow, Scotland. Plus a load of top notch solicitors and the hierarchy (big chiefs) in education. They all came out with all guns blazing. A QC at a Glasgow Tribunal? Totally unheard of. The Tribunal said to be the longest ever running employment law case in UK history. Said to have the potential to open the door to thousands of Equal Pay cases. Said to be the greatest threat to the Labour Government ever. Blair had just been elected. Donald Dewar dropped out as a Consultant to Harper MacLeod.

      They all knew what was going on in Scotland with the Labour controlled Councils in the 90’s (and way before then) and they did Jack sh*t.

      The Glasgow Tribunal eventually returned, after many months, with a win verdict for the instructors. They had won HANDS DOWN and against all odds: The might of the corrupt establishment. Brilliant instructors on £12,000 a year working as team leaders (dealing with many children with challenging behaviour) over teachers as part of their team earning £24,000 a year. Teachers that weren’t fit to run a blooming ménage never mind a team. The verdict was ABSOLUTELY damning in fact for Glasgow City Council et al. Tribunal members, Judge etc, didn’t beat about the bush. The instructors had been totally exploited. They had been on the same point on the pay scale for 16 years and there was no promotion structure for them in place other than jumping from instructor to Depute or Head of school. They pointed out that they were the only group of workers in the UK in this position.

      The instructors were over the moon. They hadn’t ever actually wanted equal pay with teachers, just some sort of a pay rise to minimise the gap. Well their delight didn’t last for long, as Glasgow City Council et al had 30 days to appeal the decision and they did. The case then went in front of Lord Johnston in Edinburgh at the Employment Appeal Tribunal. After many more months he agreed with the Glasgow Tribunal. He supported the instructors. Well you’d think it would end there, eh? Well no it didn’t. Glasgow City Council then appealed Lord Johnston’s decision and it was taken to the Court of Session in Edinburgh. Meanwhile this is costing the Scottish tax-payers a fortune. Is there any way of finding out exactly how much?

      The Court of Session, three Law Lords, found in favour of the Councils. The case was in two parts. In the first instance they agreed that the instructors were doing / had been doing the same job (better than), as teachers but on the second count that the justification for the pay differential had nothing to do with sex discrimination. It was just down to two different nationally negotiated pay scales. GTC and APT@C for instructors. In other words the instructors had been treated like door mats for decades and wouldn’t be getting a pay rise.

      The instructors were so enraged (Clydesider types, lol) that THEY decided to appeal the CoSession decision even although they knew that the corrupt system was totally against them and they probably wouldn’t win. Knew they wouldn’t win. Harper MacLeod? Say no more! Check out who was Chief Law Lord in the late 90’s. Derry pal of Blair?

      The 7 instructors had 30 days to raise thousands of pounds to take GCC to the House of Lords and they went hard at it from not day one but second one. Telling a lie. Three of them did nought. You know how it is. Do nought but take the credit anyway.

      It’s totally tragic when I think back now. Jess Marshall wouldn’t leave the little Court room to eat out at lunch time, for example on a celebratory day, and came up with all sorts of excuses as to why she didn’t want to do so. Bottom line (I found out eventually) was that she didn’t have a penny to her name and was sitting every day nibbling at jam pieces. Hiding them with her hands. Absolutely heartbreaking. She was one of the most caring, compassionate people that you could ever have met, adored by all and totally dedicated to her pupils, AND a brilliant artist. Her husband had won an award for an invention but had no money to take it forward. The individual stories of instructors, their spouses and children could fill a book alone. Funny and fantastic. A book that would make you feel so proud to be Scottish and I thank God that I can report that every last one of them supported Independence for Scotland.

      I’m being distracted now and also forgot to mention earlier that the Unions … Nalgo and then Unison …. had done the dirty on the instructors by saying they had never been informed of their grievance at all. Well I knew that that was a pack of lies and supplied proof to the contrary to the Tribunal. It highlighted that the Labour Party (and Blair / Dewar) and the Unions were in cahoots with each other.

      Well the money was raised. That’s another hair-raising story. A little short but a half decent QC decided to defend the instructors at the House of Lords on the cheap … £8000 instead of ? They were still short of solicitors fees and paying their Scottish councils, Glasgow, Renfrewshire, Ayrshire, Lanarkshire et al, thousands of pounds EACH if they lost.

      It was St Andrews Day 1999. A handful of decent Scots made their way to London to fight for their (and more so others) rights. A bird splattered all over someone’s new coat. They looked at each other and they laughed. Helped to wipe. St Andrews day plus bird poo! A good omen or what?

      Five Law Lords spent HOURS condemning Glasgow City Council, et al. They couldn’t hide their ABSOLUTE contempt for them. They looked up into the eves at the Scottish instructors and one after another praised them. Praised them for the work that they did. Praised them for their clear devotion and dedication to the children that they (educated and) cared for. And praised them for being the only group of people to have made their way from an Employment Tribunal in the UK to the House of Lords without any financial help whatsoever. Wowee made a big deal of that one.

      A few weeks later the instructors were given the bad news. They’d lost their case. The Law Lords rightly stated, IMO, that Mr Rod McKenzie of Harper MacLeod Glasgow hadn’t used the right law to win the instructors case. Work that one out folks. I’d pointed that out two weeks into the case in September 1996.

      By the time the House of Lords had given their decision most, dozens to start with, instructors had been manipulated / bullied out of their jobs altogether. Three of the seven test cases had lost their jobs by then but not one missed their monthly payment to their Labour controlled Councils. They each had to pay back thousands of pounds to the bast*rds.

      Twenty years on instructors have become as extinct as a dodo in Scottish schools. Well warned by a QC at a Glasgow Tribunal in 1996. Fight us and you’re all out (starting with the ringleaders). Whispered in my ear that he dearly wished he was fighting on the side of the fabulous instructors. What a loss to children with complex needs and more so their parents. Total damnation of a Labour Party that never gave one whit for women’s rights, children with special needs, families suffering or the countries ‘kitty’. A political party that’s akin to a malignant tumour that you think that you can’t get rid of.

      Jessica Marshall has passed away now. Young, vibrant, talented, ever so humble and kind. I’m sure that you never knew her or her band of ‘Warriors’ but let’s never forget them because they typify the best of Scots, imo. Scots who fight for the underdog. For fairness and for justice. The type of Scot that will free you from that horrendous Unionist leech-like condition. One that eats you from the inside out in conjunction with eating you from outside in. Bloodsuckers. Let’s get rid of them.


      Jeezo folks my husband and I got in a couple of hours ago. He’s snoring now and I’m knackered. Knackered reliving a Labour reality. Nightmare. Off to bed. Apologies if my post jumps about a bit, if it’s too convoluted or long. Too tired to sort out. I’m sure you’ll get the gist of it all.

    188. Macart says:


      No. Not too long and certainly loud and clear.



      Stick it till the end. Get an extension or don’t. Walk out in the huff even. They could do any of that. It won’t matter a damn. The damage is done already. What they’re facing and what they know perfectly well, is that this is now about damage limitation. It’s about which of those choices will provide them with the least amount of damage and how achieveable is each in turn.

      They know there are appalling consequences for stroomphing out of talks. On top of your own scenario on the various big table organizations, they will also be pursued for monies owed through every legal channel possible by the EU. Ditto on rights issues for continental nationals resident on UK soil. Then comes the trade issue itself. They do know what such an action means to any future trading relationship with the continent? The loss of face and trust would take decades to recover from. The chances of future trade relations receding from short term to mahoosively long term. Outcome – catastrophically hard brexit.

      On the swift conclusion to A50? The UK gov. takes its public humiliation like a grown up. Settles its bill, opts for an EFTA style deal to secure the Irish border issue and the rights of continental citizens living on UK soil end of. The current gov. will lose face with the brexit voting public and of course their grasp on government at all for obv reasons, but the good ship UK limps on, only slightly waterlogged from numerous leaks below the waterline. Outcome – soft brexit, but a still much impoverished UK.

      Finally the ‘extension’ scenario. That bad boy will take a unanimous by council members to grant any extension or transition period, as I understand it. That’s going to take good will, or at least common interest, which I’m not sure the UK enjoys overmuch at the moment in EU chambers. Still, not out of the bounds of possibility. It will still end in hard brexit, only a slightly delayed hard brexit.

    189. cearc says:

      Round of applause for Petra.

      On a lighter note. Johnson trolled by the Czech FM bigtime and on an official visit. Laughing stock or what?

    190. Robert Peffers says:


      Your long comment was much appreciated and BTW Glasgow Labour were not alone in how Scotland’s councils treated employees who cared for those poor children with absolutely nothing going for them.

      Much dirt has been swept under Labour Council carpets since those days.

    191. Macart says:


      That EUCIS link is a good catch Nana. Well worth spreading.

    192. Capella says:

      @ Petra – Great post. I think you should write that book in support of all those people who have no voice at all but are used by the corrupt Westminster parties.

    193. Breeks says:

      With regards to walking out the EU without a deal, it is frighteningly possible.

      It’s an extreme example, but one country can declare war against another, and all deals and treaties are broken or obsolete at a stroke.

      It’s that “S” word again. When you’re sovereign, you can be honest sovereign or greedy and nasty sovereign. You are sovereign so you have the casting vote that decides. The “check” on everybody being greedy and nasty sovereign is that other countries have their own sovereignty, and can band together to fence in your nasty sovereignty. That is the mechansism which allows the EU and UN to function. Nations club together to sanction and ostracise the wayward minority until it wises up and plays by the rules again. It’s not perfect, often ineffective in the short term, but it’s the only serious attempt at the regulation of nations’ conduct which exists..

      The “UK” could stick two Churchillian fingers up to Europe and its Treaties, but “could” and “will” are altogether different.

      Don’t get me wrong, Westminster is a mad as a box of frogs, but storming out of the EU through petulant frustration would be the UK shooting the other foot, after the foot it already shot with Brexit. I’ve said a Declaration of War is an extreme example, but the UK is amongst the most trigger happy Nations on the planet, and as Gulf War 2 proves, content to pay lip service to UN resolutions and connive to get around them.

      If the EU woke up tomorrow with the UK gone, I rather suspect they’d commemorate the day with street parties and an annual Bank Holiday. It certainly isn’t a threat that’s going to alarm the Europeans..

      If the UK threatens to walk out with a “hard” and “dirty” Brexit, then it will do very little except make itself an economic pariah for reputable “establishment” investment, but dirty money, crooks, and unscrupulous investors might see things differently. However, the alarming thing about that is that they are not coming here, they are already here.

      The big scare for Scotland would be our Brexicution before we had time to escape the UK’s common punishment, and self inflicted punishment, by still being a core component of the UK when the Brexit axe fell.

      I can repeat myself over and over again. We need our Sovereignty parked at the door, with a full tank of fuel, air in the tyres, wth the door open and the engine running.

      Listen Theresa May, we’ve got sovereignty in our pocket, and we’re not afraid to use it….

      Unless we can organise, campaign for, run, count and win a referendum in an afternoon, then we need a plan B.

      I have a plans B all worked out. It begins with S and ends with overeignty. We are fools if we remain so I’ll-prepared to use it.

    194. Ghillie says:

      Petra @ 7.04 am

      Stories to be told that would make us proud to be Scottish.

      Please would you tell these stories.

      I want to hear them.

      Who were these people? What did they do? Please don’t let these stories slip away. Thank you =)

    195. Jock McDonnell says:


      Curious use of flags there, nothing for Austria but a UJ for English. Feels ‘odd’.
      Maybe I’m just too sensitive.

      On a different matter. Sovereignty.
      Without getting into what makes Scots sovereign, we can at least discuss what does or does not make Westminster sovereign. We should be shouting it more loudly.
      Westminster merely asserts sovereignty – and invites one to challenge that. As long as that remains unchallenged, Westminster retains its power – power we give it by our compliance.
      We need to question this in the public’s mind. Once that starts, it can’t be unthought.

    196. Breeks says:

      I missed a bit…

      “…If the EU woke up tomorrow with the UK gone, I rather suspect they’d commemorate the day with street parties and an annual Bank Holiday. It certainly isn’t a threat that’s going to alarm the Europeans..”..

      So you have to consider whether all the briefings about the possibility of dirty Brexit is intended to scare Europe who couldn’t care less, or intended to “prime” the U.K. about what to expect…

      And before you knock it, Maybe, just maybe, that’s precisely what we should be doing with our Scottish Sovereignty… talking about it now, to prepare the ground and deaden the shock if it ever happens.

    197. galamcennalath says:

      Nana says:

      Gathering flow of rumours May is going to trigger a walk out of Brexit negotiations as early as tomorrow.

      Some odd headlines about. Telegraph suggesting May ‘took dictation’ from the EU on Florence speech. Seems unlikely and sounds more like an attack to undermine May’s request for a transition period. Someone in the Express saying time to walk away, a Labour supporter allegedly. Also article where IDS says, ‘walk away’. Sounds like the civil war between soft and hard sides is still going on.

      Key to the form of Brexit are Scotland and NI. If the UK stays in the single market then those issues are effectively solved. Hard Brexit and both Scotland and NI threaten the existence of the UK. Everyone knows and understands this, though few admit it. Would May risk walking away? The answer has to lie in priorities. Just how important is England becoming totally detached from the EU? Will they pay the price of UK breakup?

      Of course it could be a hard ball negotiating tactic. Threaten to walk away. This shows continued misunderstanding of the EU’s stance on politics rather than trade.

      We will know more after this week’s UK/EU trade talks. If there has been no progress on the big three isssues, then the UK isn’t serious about a deal.

    198. Sinky says:

      Call Kaye on about Named Persons again. Are there not more pressing topical matters such as expecting Scottish government to pay £30 billion to end Labour’s PFI contracts.

    199. Valerie says:

      @ Mac art

      Think you are spot on.

      Who has mentioned UK breaking any treaties? UK triggered A50, and the period runs to March, 2019, that’s the Treaty.

      However, walking away without a deal is perfectly legal, as we know, it is only a deal that regulates their relationship with 27 EU countries.

      In their delusions, EU is the root of all their problems, and the world beyond awaits.

      No deal – fall back on WTO rules, we know that. Essentially, UK will say, take it or leave it.

      I read Boris statement last night, he is driving this. He says

      Time this ship was on the slipway, the rest of the world is waiting.

      It’s hard to believe, but I’ve said that so many times.

      The rest of the world is not waiting, EU negotiators hoovered them up into trade deals, that means if they negotiate a more favourable deal with UK, they must also give it to EU bloc, or negate the EU deal.

      Remember, there is no humility among these folk, much less intellect to look ahead. What has Boris to lose pushing this?

    200. Robert Peffers says:

      See You Kaye wi wan e’e in full scale SNP BAAAAD! mode today.


      The YoonYoonist desperation is in full view for all to see and it grows more apparent every day.

      Is it just me or does the sound of YoonYoonist barrel bottoms being scraped rival the sound of squeaky chalk on a blackboard for putting teeth on edge?

    201. Black Joan says:

      Petra, thank you for that heartbreaking account of the filthy rotten system.

      To a greater and a lesser extent it’s visible every day and all around us. Good people doing decent work for others and yet struggling to survive on slave wages and conditions.

      Maybe if Scotland hadn’t been downtrodden for so long we would dare to do something about it.

    202. Valerie says:

      BBC on that breaking Bombadier story. Hundreds of jobs at risk in NI, due to 220% tariffs imposed by USA, to ensure Boeing get the jobs.

      Special relationship.

      Strong and stable.

      Make America great again.

    203. There is no time limit on ending EU withdrawal negotiations,

      Lisbon Treaty,
      Article 50,
      Para 3, sub para 2,

      `unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period`,

      and if there are corporate lawyers and judges involved this clownfest could last decades.

    204. Ken500 says:

      There will be a GE the Tories will be out. That is the way they will get out of the news they have created. Their get out clause. Par for the course. There unionists collaborators will then take on the poison chalice. They could have voted the Tories down on 12/9/17. They will muck up as well. So it will continue ping pong, since 1928. The ignorant total incompetents at Westminster and their cronies lining their pockets tax evading and embezzling public money. Appalling people. Illegal wars, tax evasion and financial fraud.

      The SNP/Independence could also be waiting for a mandate and a GE. Change of Westminster Gov. To act.

      They are carrying out manoeuvres around the Hebrides (nuclear attack activities). Fallon that ignorant incompetent wants to start a world war. To spend £40Billion a year sanctioning, starving maiming and killing people.

      Unionist councils all over Scotland are manipulating not spending the money allocated to education and keeping class sizes higher. They manipulated the Law to do it. The Law on statute of limitation to keep class sizes below 30. These councils use that as the norm. To cut the allocated education budget. Keep class sizes higher. Cut additional needs support. Cut the education allocation. Spend and waste the money on non mandated grotesque projects of little value. The majority do not want. They want the money spent on education and essential services. It was intended to support.

      PPI will be paid down gradually. A total waste of money. Interest rates were low. The money that would have had to be spent building and maintaining. Would have to be deducted in any case.These contracts last for 30 years. Done will have been partial paid off. Paid down. They are paid down every year. The contractor/provider has to leave the building estate etc in pristine fashion as new. The problem is can that be done. Ie The contract be fulfilled. Not a good idea but they would have been allocated funds every year in any case.

    205. Ken500 says:

      Scottish Gov Finance committee. Evidence

      BBC Parliamentary Channel.

    206. Valerie says:

      @ Scott Finlayson

      That would apply if UK has sought, and 27 bloc agreed to extend A50 period. That’s not happened.

      The nearest was the mention of a two year transition AFTER Mar.2019. That is highly unlikely, because EU will not relax anything during a transition, and UK want control of immigration now, to stop FOM. Also, they can’t negotiate trade, and they claim they need to get out there.

    207. Ken500 says:

      Labourunionists just do not get it. Totally ignorant. ‘Higher % of public workers in Scotland? Scotland raises more tax revenues (pro rata) than the rest of the UK. Choices. Cut £1Billion on Trident. ‘Minimum pricing’ £1Billion (can’t tax cheap alcohol). Not paying loan repayments on money no borrowed or spent in Scotland. £3Billion. Tax evasion £3Billion. £4Billion a year lost in Oil & Gas sector. 40% tax since Jan 2016 (Westminster).etc, etc.

      Illegal wars, financial fraud and tax evasion. HMRC not fit for purpose.

    208. geeo says:

      @breeks @8.44

      Who is to say the SG has not got Sovereignty card ready to play when required, or any other card currently held close to their chest ?

      You do not show your hands until you are called.

      That aside, if the people are sovereign, as in Scotland, then there must surely be a majority given by those people on matters such as independence which allows the SG to act on our behalf to enact it as “the sovereign will of the people” ?

    209. geeo says:


      You seem determined to push the “walk out the negotiations = instantly out the EU” line.

      It is simply NOT TRUE nor is it possible.

      Brexit date is known. 29/3/2019.

      Again…the ONLY way the uk can leave before that date is to have a ratified and signed off DEAL with the EU.

      No deal does NOT count as a deal. Article 50 is clear on that.

      Scenario…TM walks away shouting “no deal we are out”.

      EU says, ok then…signs off brexit.

      2018 (summer) Motion of no confidence is called due to TM’s inept handling of brexit.

      Government is toppled and country goes to a GE.

      LABOUR win the resultant GE, and want to return to the A50 negotiating table, as it is STILL within the A50 2 year period.

      EU says…”but we signed it off, you are out”

      Labour gov quotes A50 regards to 2 year negotiating period, stating EU guilty of BREACHING A50.

      Then what ?

      EU simply cannot sign off no deal until 2019.

    210. Liz g says:

      geeo 10.46
      Thanks for that…I hadn’t thought of your scenario.
      We are so caught up in what the mad bastirts in Westminster will do next.
      We tend to forget that the EU is the one with the brains and the power this time.

    211. Daisy Walker says:

      Petra, your post made me cry. Thank you so much for all your hard work and for sharing some of your experiences. My step mum was a nursery nurse and worked in some of these schools round Lothian. She would never vote Labour, having seen up close their utter sold out hypocrisy.

      Take it easy and good care of yourself. It would be a lovely world if all good deeds were acknowledged, but that is not how it works. I truly believe however, that no good deeds are wasted. They change the energy / atmosphere in magic ways. Keep holding back the tide.

      O/T I woke up with a theory, which is better than waking up with a hangover, but having said that hangovers don’t last long.

      i’ve been trying to follow the money and figure out the motive for the 1% pushing a hard Brexit. What’s in it for them?

      No doubt they will have hedged and shorted for the outcome… but that is beyond my ken.

      If they trash the economy and the NHS is made private… well that’s a nice little earner for them. Very much a no brainer… but for them, hmm unlikely to be the big piece of the cake.

      Scotland Oil and Gas, bigger, definitely bigger, but as a lever with the rest of the world? The rest of the world still has oil, there is no shortage yet. Not for another 50 years anyway.

      And then I read the article about getting a grip of the grid and saw the size of Scotland’s renewables – 4 TIMES that of our OIL. Interesting.

      And then I read Talking Up Scotland’s article about the world first for using under water turbines to power up the splitting of water into H and 02 and storing the same, and the tidal potential all round Scotland.

      This is likely to be within the 12 miles of the coast isn’t it? Crown property if memory serves. A new technology, which if released too soon, kicks the oil industry all round the world.

      Scotland has the potential to be an energy battery for large parts of Europe. Control its development and you can maximise profits from the Oil Industry for as long as possible.

      By comparison, ruining Englands car industry is very small potatoes.

      When you look at it from the above perspective, from the view point of the extremely wealthy and immoral, suddenly the mad Brexiteers have some very big levers of power on the world stage. AND SO DOES SCOTLAND.

      We live in interesting times don’t we.

    212. Stuart McTavish says:

      Robert Peffers @ 15.37 yesterday

      Not forgetting that her right to wear the British crown depends entirely on an (alleged) direct line all the way back to an Italian courtier named Rizzio.

      There will be controversy who gets it next though – the removal of “Mr Wallis Simpson” on spurious grounds may render any ascension of Charles or his issue illegitimate.

    213. Jack Murphy says:

      OT. CATALONIA VOTE. This is on BBC UK Headquarters Europe web page:
      From James Badcock

      “”It won’t happen,” insists Spain’s prime minister, and for the Catalan leaders trying to organise Sunday’s vote on seceding from Spain, his words are becoming harder and harder to contradict.

      The nerve centre of the 1 October referendum – Catalonia’s economy department – has been seriously damaged by raids carried out by Spain’s military police force, the Civil Guard.

      Fourteen junior officials and associates were arrested, but more importantly close to 10 million ballot papers were impounded, and websites informing Catalans about the election have been shut down……..”

      I searched in vain for BBC Scotland reporting Catalonia but guess what dear readers?
      A complete Blanket Ban,or to be more kind to them they just haven’t read about it in the Scottish Press. 🙁

      10 million Independence Referendum ballot papers impounded in a country two and a half hours away from Scotland and the BBC in Scotland turns an Admiral Nelson Blind Eye.

      A political editor or someone further up the Pay Scale here or in England has made a decision——“Nothing of interest whatever to Scotland,move on to the Fitba”.

      BBC World/Europe News Archived:

    214. Breeks says:

      geeo says:
      27 September, 2017 at 10:27 am
      @breeks @8.44

      “That aside, if the people are sovereign, as in Scotland, then there must surely be a majority given by those people on matters such as independence which allows the SG to act on our behalf to enact it as “the sovereign will of the people” ?”

      Yes, and no. It takes a majority to ACT upon sovereignty, but it requires no majority at all to BE sovereign. We are all sovereign as an absolute condition. And if we are sovereign, then it follows that Westminster is not.

      To declare ourselves Independent would be a UDI; unpopular, undemocratic, fraught with difficulties, and you are absolutely correct, it would be a sovereign act requiring a majority to support it. No argument. (But be equally clear, WE DO NOT NEED A UDI).

      We would only need a UDI to BECOME sovereign. But to BE sovereign is merely to be as we are, but to remain as we are, means defending our right to be sovereign. Our Sovereignty has been challenged. Brexit if we allow it to happen, is a brazen act of subjugation in direct defiance and outright challenge of Scotland’s sovereign choice to remain. We do not require a mandate or electoral majority to defend our sovereignty and repell Westminster’s undemocratic and unmandated assault to overrule Scotland’s sovereign decision.

      We do not need to win an Independence referendum, it isn’t even critical whether we stay in Europe or get Brexicuted, (though I very much hope we do remain), but what is vital in every respect is defending Scotland’s sovereign constitution from challenge by an aggressor, and Westminster trying to steamroller us out of Europe against our democratic decision to remain, is nothing short of aggressive colonialism and usurpation of sovereignty.

      As for the SNP being fully primed and ready to act upon Scotland’s sovereignty, then hallelujah! My arms are raised, my eyes are weeping with joy and my soul is threatening to break free from my chest and soar into the heavens. It is all I ever need the SNP to do.

      But, I fear Geeo, we are both about to have such aspirations crushed. To defend our sovereignty, and defend our sovereignty from Brexicution, means retracing our steps to 2016 and our sovereign vote to Remain. That is where the UK’s challenge to our democracy and sovereignty is rooted, and that has to be the fulcrum of the sovereign argument. It is not too late for the SNP to backtrack and defend our Remain vote as a Sovereign edict, but our sovereign watershed is staying in the EU, and nothing short of benchmark satisfies the sovereign criteria of the Remain vote.

      Take all your arguments and compromises about EFTA, the Customs Union, Free Movement and all the rest, and put them in a box that is not to be opened before Independence. There can be no compromise. Defend our sovereignty successfully, and we will default to being in Europe as a sovereign nation. Scotland will be the rUK, the EU member state which England and Wales elected to leave. But fail to defend our sovereignty, and Scotland will be a subjugated colony of Westminster with no meaningful instruments of sovereign power to defend ourselves from the numerical superiority of our southern neighbours. Our “Scottish” constitutional popular sovereignty will be a placebo to keep the peace, a delusional fig leaf masking our actual subjugation.

    215. sensibledave says:

      Giving Goose 12:51 pm

      You wrote: “I’m personally convinced that the events at the Labour conference are very carefully contrived and coordinated with the other two Unionist facades. What we are witnessing is a very skilful application of a Management Strategy to keep Scotland within the Union.”

      More tin foil Goosey?

      If you truly believe one word of that paragraph then, I fear, your are lost and beyond redemption.

    216. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Petra (7.04) –

      Soo-perb post. Valuable testimony right there, and no doubt the tip of a shameful catalogue of stories which many will be hoping are never aired or written.

      So, we have to write them, and it doesn’t matter if certain people are made uncomfortable or face difficult questions – the only reason these appalling situations develop is because too many are cowed into complicity and silence by selfish bastards who should never ever be allowed anywhere near the caring professions.

    217. G says:

      If the case SLAB is referring to is Armstrong & others against Glasgow City Council and McDonald & others against Glasgow City council then the decision was delivered by Lord Menzies on 18.8.17 and can be found on the scottish courts website. It states at p32 ‘for the foregoing reasons we shall allow these appeals, quash the judgement of the employment tribunal….and thd judgement of the employment appeal tribunal…, and remit to the employment tribunal to consider the question of equal value’.

      I checked with the employment tribunal services today and they were unaware of this decision! They are now aware. No employment tribunal is convened to consider matters and no appeal is lodged ( nor could it be as there is nothing to appeal). The employees won their appeal and it is now for the Employment tribunal to consider the question posed by the court of session.

    218. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Petra @ 07:04,

      Just caught up with your post right now. At first glance it looked very long but once I started reading, it was absolutely gripping from start to finish. What a story.

      Look and learn, people, what machine politics is like and how it operates.

      Maybe someday somebody will make a film of it. But likely only in an independent Scotland.

    219. gerry parker says:

      Takes you right to the comment. tweeted it today am

    220. yesindyref2 says:

      Oh FFS I usually skip over long postings but there’s so many recommendations for Petra’s posting I’m going to have to make a cup of tea and read it. My comment though having got just a couple of paragraphs in is this.

      What happened with the equal pay thing for women, is that what, 10 years ago no idea, some (many, all I don’t know), were offered a paltry sum in full and final settlement. I know some who took this because they were desperate for money. It could be £1,000, whereas they’d worked for years as a carer for instance, at a much lower hourly rate than a male in an equivalent job. The actual sum could have been £10,000, £20,000, £30,000, even more.

      There’s an inherent flaw in a justice system that allows people to sign away their real rights, for such a derisory sum of money, and it still isn’t corrected.


      Lochranza’s a lovely place, just a little shop in the camping place, and of course the excellent Sandwich Station. There used to be a stores, and busy too, but couldn’t compete with the co-ops, not a lot of local trade for the long winter. Curiously there’s a great wee shop round at Pirnmill that has the local trade to keep it going in winter.

    221. yesindyref2 says:

      Yeah, that’s a must read posting above:

      It’s completely fair IMHO to all parties, even including the ones it completely criticises.

    222. Rock says:

      Dave McEwan Hill,

      “Rock at 8.27

      What a infantile comment. Rather sums you up. You don’t want the until recently leader of the Labour Party in Scotland to come to us?”

      Isn’t that the same lying hypocrite of a woman whom the Rev. Stuart Campbell has taken to court for defamation?

      The woman who relentlessy attacked the SNP in parliament while being in bed with an SNP MSP at home?

      No, I don’t want that woman anywhere near the independence campaign.

      She is free to vote Yes if she wants.

      Unlike you, I have some principles.

    223. yesindyref2 says:

      and if you don’t like them… well, I have others.

      Where’s Tony Little when you need him?

    224. Petra says:

      Hi folks. Thanks for the positive comments re. my last post. So much has been swept under the carpet right enough from the stealing of funds in schools / hospital schools to child abuse. Followed by wee meetings being held in private at the local Cooncil offices. Wee jumped up morons, with big egos, often making far reaching and extremely detrimental decisions that ultimately affects many people. Labour Cooncillors in cahoots with Union shop stewards / Convenors. Will we ever get to the bottom of it all? The cover-ups over the last few decades may lie hidden for evermore, but when we get our Independence we should have a mass clearout of councillors and ensure that a totally transparent system is put in place.


      @ Indyref at “What happened with the Equal Pay thing for women ……. the actual sum could have been £10,000, £20,000 or £30.000”

      What happened with the Equal Pay thing for women was that if an employer could come up with ANY reason, justification, for not paying the same wage then the case was snookered. Using the loop-hole became more problematic for them latterly. The actual sum owed per Instructor was £280,000 and that was 20 years ago. Not one of them ever wanted that kind of money and were extremely concerned about the financial impact on Councils. All they ever wanted was a decent living wage for doing a decent days work. This no doubt still applies to many female workers in Scotland and the Councils have decades of experience under their belts now that highlights that burying their heads in the sand doesn’t work (some type of gender equality therapy may also be required). Nor does ripping people off by coercing them into signing their rights away. Unions involved?

      Lochranza. Yeah it is lovely although I prefer places like Lamlash and Corry where we’re all staying now. Had a sandwich at the Sandwich place the other day there, £4.50 a time! but well worth it (as a one off). and a great blether with the Zimbabwean owner.

    225. yesindyref2 says:

      Previous owners went off to Finland I think it was. Gets very busy while people waiting for the ferry, specially if there’s a coach or two.

      Yes, that happens the loophole thing, but I guess some councils took the easy way out, and got solicitors to offer small sums in settlement, and I think it was 20 years ago or more, not 10. I know women who settled in my council area. Shrug. Knew they’d get more, but couldn’t afford to wait.

    226. Cactus says:

      FFS, check the nick of that crimpled saltire. They are fake Scots, it’s true.

      Aweright Proud Cybernat ~

      Any chance ye could imgur us that pic above with the flag that they really want to be holding and supporting…

      Hear and here a question?
      When did you last see a picture of a multi-creased UJ flag in a photo-shoot?

      Those cunning cant-ilevers.

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