Super sigh me
Posted on
September 25, 2017 by
Rev. Stuart Campbell
In today’s Herald, for no apparent particular reason, this drivel again:
And who might this latest impartial “expert” be, we wonder?
Oh, it’s this guy:
It’s like they’re not even trying any more. Forgive our weary expression, won’t you?
There’s a good reason he’s sitting on a toilet.
Donald McDonald…spitting in yer
onion rings…
what a clown…
Must have been a poor day for a ‘SNP bad’ story. They’ve probably got these all ready run on such days.
Recycling. Its all the rage (60s expression recycled).
Aye. Looks pure impartial sitting in his bitterthegither cludgie.
Expert my arse.
Surely, thats Charlie Cairoli.
And if anyone protests, David Leask will no doubt insist it is legitimate news.
Is he sitting on the edge of his bath with old slogans to keep him happy?
You have to have contempt against the Herald
What can you say they are having a bit of a laugh.
They are not now producing a serious newspaper they have given up.
I suppose it would have been Greece… with oil… with whisky, salmon and gin exports… with 25% of all the clean energy in Europe… with a well-educated, English-speaking population… with mountains, lochs, castles and monsters… with large fishing stocks… so… he is right in a way…
He’s ‘NO’ expert. Seriously though, they could’a waited ’till he got off the toilet.
Now folks, a bit of respect for the good Doctor on his throne.
He did, after all, predict a Remain vote last year.
Oh, wait…
Seriously …they’re still trotting this drivel out?!?
And the worst thing is, they are spouting this nonsense when the UK is possibly about to commit itself to a Hard Brexit; in which such action, will do the most unbelievable financial self-harm to the British State!
In such light, even a fair percentage of the Better Together support now seriously doubt that if Scotland broke away from the UK, that it would be far worse than what the UK is currently contemplating with its idea of going through with a Hard Brexit. The financial catastrophe that awaits the UK is probably unimaginable at the moment. But should it happen, not only would Sterling drop like an anvil, but every single industry in the UK would be facing job redundancies as well as loss of investment. The stupidity that has been involved over the last years and a half from some politicians, to political parties, to the media, to the ignorance of half of the electorate is simply …criminal. You wonder how some people are allowed a vote.
Well, if this is today’s headline from the Herald (and basically, their London masters), then they’re running out of excuses …and you can sense the panic, for next time, they might not be able to convince the Scottish nation that remaining with the UK is within our best interests.
@Scotspine
Close… but no exploding cigar!
I saw Charlie at the Blackpool tower circus…a couple of times
Once I was sitting beside Stanley Matthews, Tom Finney, Wullie Cunningham, Tommy Docherty and mae faither who shall be nameless.
Great day out circa 1956/57. 🙂
Preston North End day out.
PS:
Watching big Labour promising the earth today + a bit of SNP bad.
We gotta get out of this place we are in. 🙁
No wonder McDonalds made a clown out of him.
To think l was once a fan of the Herald, many moons ago. They disgust me now.
The entire UK would have been in the toilet with Greece if we’d been in the Euro. Many things conspired to create Greece’s economic woes. (Scottishness wasn’t one of them.)
It is important that an Independent Scotland has its own currency. I don’t think it can be on a wish list it has to be hard-wired into the project.
Better decide now what to call it. So people can get used to the idea. Any advance on the Scottish Poond ?
I don’t like his choice of bathroom tiles much.
He is sitting on the origins and eventual destination for all Labour Party Policy. Pass the paper!!
The Herald’s sister paper, the “independence supporting” The National will expose this drivel as clearly as the Rev. Stuart Campbell has done here.
Or the 8,000 diehard independence supporters who buy it will stop buying it.
So Scotland would be doing better then rUK then. ‘Cos Greece is doing better than UK.
The irony is that it seems that Ronald Macdonald coming out against any form of currency union with the rUK whether formal or informal, now puts him on the side of most Independence supporters who want our own currency.
Maybe Ronald will be the next “Journey to YES” …
Aye, and at least the Greeks can look at themselves in the mirror.
I am sure I heard that Greece has higher growth than the present UK. Maybe we should aim for that.
It’s a post hard Brexit rUK without Scotland that is going to be the ‘basket case’.
I wouldn’t dare offend Greece by drawing any comparisons.
After just the first day of the fourth round of Brexit talks, the UK looks like a bunch of eejits who couldn’t negotiate the procurement of a cold beer. Or, a bunch of eejits who want to crash their economy in the name of blood and soil nationalism.
IScotland will do just fine managing its own affairs and vast natural resources.
“The Herald’s sister paper, the “independence supporting” The National will expose this drivel as clearly as the Rev. Stuart Campbell has done here.
Or the 8,000 diehard independence supporters who buy it will stop buying it.”
I’ve never seen you write about boycotting any other newspaper other that the National.
Hmmm…
yesindyref2 says:
25 September, 2017 at 9:23 pm
The irony is that it seems that Ronald Macdonald coming out against any form of currency union with the rUK whether formal or informal, now puts him on the side of most Independence supporters who want our own currency.
Maybe Ronald will be the next “Journey to YES” …
Haven’t read t but if he has said that, he is correct.
Which swamp of ignorance do the BritNats dredge these economic nitwits from? GraphMan and CludgieMan, what next? It’s beyond parody. Even the greatest dullard is eventually going to twig that these people haven’t a clue.
I’m beginning to suspect that there’s some kind of secret resistance campaign running in the media under the very noses of the editorial overlords. The Soldier Schweik Ploy, as it were.
Where overt resistance to the BritNat paymasters is futile, introduce deliberate incompetence instead, and get one or two total daffys to “promote” the economic case =cough= for the Union.
Ronald MacDonald?…is he no’ a clown…well they must be paying him funny money for this recycled shite.
Mind you, looking at the photie, it looks like he’s going through the motions..cos he looks awfie flushed btw.
Another pillar of the no campaign crumbles as the uk is downrated by moodys. The newspapers getting in early before ian blackford asks the prime minister why the debt is going up and the credit rating is going down.
Less scary with the clown make-up on.
Poor Ronald.
He’s no got much going for him in the visual department.
Yon coupon says it all. Tired, washed up, angry at the inevitability of indy, and most of all bone bitter from the slagging he took at school. 🙁
Farcical.
Smile peeps. This is where were at.
It’s over.
They know it, really.
And we know they know.
Best of all. They know we know they know.
“Isn’t it rich?
Isn’t it queer?
Losing my timing this late in my career
And where are the clowns?
Quick, send in the clowns
Don’t bother
They’re here”
Well Ronald MacDonald are we really still “Better Together” as your pals said/lied about basically back in 2014? Nah didnt think so!
‘Maybe Ronald will be the next “Journey to YES” …’
Arch BritNats like Donald Dewar have in the in the past compared an independent Scotland to Bangladesh, Zimbabwe or whatever they thought was the poster boy for abject poverty.So Greece sounds like an advance on that.
One more small push and he might convert.
Going by his expression on the pan,more likely he’ll burst wan o’ his piles.
Thing about Greece is they always had the olive oyl, so popeye wasn’t far behind to come to the rescue.
We’re going to need more spinach.
Phew, thanks the Herald, we obviously dodged a catastrofck situation there then, not!
Anyway who looks at what is happening now, and what’s to come, but says, oh, well, just think, we could have been like Greece, needs their head examined. Wasn’t the credit rating reduced again for the UKok recently. Isn’t the UKok £2 whole trillions in actual debt, having squandered the masses of oil revenues, which rightfully belonged to Scotland in fact.
Oh aye, Britain is floating, but it’s in deep doo doo without a paddle.
Scotland will be just fine thanks, once we extricate ourselves out of the dreadful so called UK. England can look after its self, they want ‘sovereignty’, out of the EU, so let them get on with it.
In an article by Severin Carrell published online in The Guardian (14 August, 2014), the self same ‘expert’ Professor MacDonald, is quoted as saying: “If an independent Scotland had a separate [new] currency then I’m sure in the longer term it could survive and prosper”.
Its worth recalling this ‘expert’ professor was claiming in 2014 that the use of Sterling after independence would have been an unmitigated disaster for Scotland. But this was countered (belatedly, in 2016) by Mervyn King, ex-Governor of the Bank of England. King came out (eventually) to argue that “Sterlingisation” – using the pound without the back up of a central bank – would have been the best option for an independent Scotland.
King is quoted in an online article by Tom Peterkin in The Scotsman (11 March 2016) as follows: “I thought that there was an answer that would solve the independence question – the currency issue. And that is that nothing happens. Scotland just carries on using sterling,” He also said. “I think that would have been totally feasible there was no need for an independent currency, that wouldn’t have posed any threat or difficulty for an independent Scotland. And I see absolutely no reason why it would have caused a problem for the Bank of England ……”
Relying on a single expert seems never to be a good idea – (surprisingly!) they often take diametrically opposed views! Herald journalists of course don’t wish to expose their readers to such truths.
No doubt if we go into Indyref2 with a proposal to establish our own currency, the Herald and its ilk will find an ‘expert’ even more distinguished than Professor MacDonald to tell us this is also a very, very bad plan. And someone as distinguished as Mervyn King may keep quiet until its too late for their supportive ‘expert’ views to have any value to the electorate.
Is big Rons moustache attached to his specs? I wouldnt buy an instant reaction from this man, hes got a face like a city bakeries Halloween cake.
The Catalans have their own TV stations etc.
Compare that to Scotland.
The indyref question for Catalonia: Should Catalonia become an independent republic?
Craig pointing out the idea of independence is to change things, not have all the same people running things.
As people like to point out here, 10 years of SNP but BBC etc stuffed with ex-Labour people.
I think quangos and legal system are the same. Labour or SNP in charge at Holyrood, still the same people actually in charge of running almost everything. (Okay, we have a Dutch company in charge of Scotrail.)
As Shona Robison politely and patronisongly fobbed me off : the Scottish Govt don’t run the NHS, the Health Boards do, the Scot Govt only give ideas and polices.
Strange; when there’s good news about the NHS, the SNP are the ones that are responsible. When there is dishonesty and abuses going on in the S/NHS, nothing to do with the Scot Govt.
LOL It is just The Herald.
It’s like a game of Tetris. They have a story that fits a space to be filled and it doesn’t matter whether it’s current or old, true or false so long as it fits the space in it goes.
Better Together: 100% chicken shit.
“Instant Expert Reaction” Add lukewarm water to a slimy cup of numpty noodles and hope to stir…
@ScottieDog
Hard to believe that the Scottish Greens had a fundraiser in order to pay for research by Prof Ronald MacDonald into an independent Scottish currency in Oct 2015. They raised the targeted amount but I can’t find the published paper if it exists anywhere online.
Imagine asking a well known better together academic to do research on behalf of Scotland’s Independence. Even worse imagine accepting such a commission when your totally against such an idea. What were the Greens thinking and did he accept the cash?
An independent Scotland needs an independent currency. The key question of how that can be achieved must be answered well in advance of a future referendum to prevent the issues which dogged the Yes side of 2014’s vote. This proposed research project, conducted by Prof Ronald MacDonald, will begin to answer that question.
http://www.crowdfunder.co.uk/a-scottish-currency/
‘Do you want lies with that?’
Rock is so patriotic he never reads the Sunday Herald or the National but denounces them all the time. The guardian for him or is it the express?
Never goes to Morrisons with all their union flags, nor tesco’s or M&s. He’s so patriotic he starves on our behalf! No tunnocks tea cakes for him. Read all about this mans efforts in the National tomorrow……… ahhh shit.. the best laid plans.
Never mind Colin Alexander will tell us he will never vote for the snp because the are devolutionists unlike labour and Tories who support independence. Confused? Read the National tomorrow….. ahh naw……… the best laid plans
Can I point out that Greece are still in the EU….
@Alex Clark
I’m not familiar with Prof McDonald but I followed the work of other economists at the time who had absolutely no side in the independence debate.
The only way (away from the neoliberal myopic viewpoint) to achieve true independence is via a sovereign currency.
I had never heard of this man and I honestly thought that Professor Ronald Macdonald was some joke name dreamed up by vile Cybernats… so is he called Donald or Ronald?… The second post here states: Donald.
Incidentally, people forget that independence is Scotland’s default setting. We have only been in a union with England for some 300 years. We were independent for almost 1000 years before that.
For some of that period, you could say we were in a de facto union with France. Because of French customs, legal and other influences, it would actually have made more sense for Scotland to enter into a union with France, rather than England…
Our history does not sit well with English history. Take “Dunkirk” for example and all it means. Well, the opposite happened in 1708, when Prince James Stewart set sail from Dunkirk with a French fleet and 5,000 troops. Due to the unpopularity of the Treaty of Union, you might imagine the support he would have had…
Unfortunately, they were unable to land in Fife, as planned, due to a squadron of English warships under Admiral Byng, so they headed back towards Dunkirk without landing.
… Regarding May’s comments that we have never felt at home in Europe, I think her school history textbook must have begun in 1707!
I spent some time in Greece last year, and the pride in the country, and the promotion of Greek made goods, to the exclusion of imports was a joy to see. If only we could be the same here, are you reading this BBC?
@ScottieDog
A sovereign currency suits me just fine and in my view should have been the choice last time around. I don’t have any Nobel prize though.
The Herald, the next right wing extremist newspaper to go burst through blatant lies, distortion of the truth, and an overdose of propaganda.
Reap what you sow!
@Alex Clark
Interestingly one economist who blogged about scotlands best bet running it’s own currency was talking at labour conference fringe event today…
http://elliswinningham.net/index.php/2017/08/30/professor-bill-mitchell-speak-25th-september-brighton/
They can’t have it both ways!
http://bilbo.economicoutlook.net/blog/?p=21102
As soon as the Herald owners took Magnus Gardham from the Daily Record as Political Editor we knew it was to be no more than a faux socialist BritNat rag.
An tae think a used to read it oan the bus tae work so people would think a wis intelligent…Pffft
Total. Clown. Shoes.
http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S0101-31572013000400002
THE ROLE OF GOVERNMENT IN ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT
http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.474.8079&rep=rep1&type=pdf
The impact of neoliberalism, political institutions and financial autonomy on economic development, 1980–2003
https://search.proquest.com/openview/7424f362eacc25635473b4bfba2bfcca/1.pdf?pq-origsite=gscholar&cbl=18750&diss=y
Stopped my subscription to The Herald when the great Ian Bell died. Had my last copy on Boxing day that year.
After more than 30 years buying, and subscribing since 2012 they didn’t even ask why I was cancelling.
Think they probably knew that indy supporters had deserted them.
@ScottieDog
The Prof Bill Mitchell blog was a bit over my head though I might have got the gist of it, comments were very interesting too.
I wonder if Mr. McDonald consulted the World Bank?
http://documents.worldbank.org/curated/en/926361468781759170/820140748_200404140035117/additional/28750.pdf
It’s just as well someone has taken a look at thing in depth.
Piggybacking, agenda-driven monkey, segueing half-baked social science written by jargon-spouting mediocrities into subjects only tangentially related…
…was a crossword clue I couldn’t answer today. Anyone help?
@ScottieDog
Regards bilbo’s blog I agree regarding our own currency, and state spending etc. But it does ignore the political reason for having a currency union, which is both certainty of value and cost of exchanges between the two parts of the union – Scotland and the rUK – and the avoidance of cost of transactions converting from one to the other. That was considered by both sides to be a potential problem, and a reason in itself for some to vote NO. For the 2014 Indy Ref with a relatively stable GBP (£ sterling), that was considered by Salmond & Co to be the best way to go to try to achieve a YES vote. I.e. not much change going on here, just that the Scottish Government makes all the decisions for Scotland.
Things have changed and we see the GBP fluctuating, and uncertain in Brexit times to come, so the stability point is more debatable. But still there would be the uncertainty for people doing say 50% of their business in England, for pricing and how much they get in the bank after the sales and transactions are complete.
It’s why I floated the idea (pardon the pun) of Scotland having a dual currency system for at least a few transitory years. This would mean that businesses could denote the prices in either of the two currencies, the Scots pound, or the GBP. For the side having the tnansaction not in their own currency, usually the seller, there would be the conversion and the transaction charge.
But the idea of having it as a dual currency rather than purely Scotland’s currency and the foreign one, the GBP, would be that the volume of transactions should be considerably higher exchanging between the two currencies, and hence the cost per transaction (which would be electronic) comes down to a low and perhaps very low figure, and hence become almost negligible in terms of cost. As long then as the Scots Pound was stable, it could even be kept not fully floating, but partially pegged to be close to the GBP. In general a lot of the population might have a linked and dualled bank account.
In time as people and businesses adapted, the use of the GBP could become less, and perhaps even switch to the euro – or dollar, or both.
Sadly I never saw anyone propose such a system, maybe it’s just mad and wouldn’t work.
And another clue – one Swallow does not a summer make.
Fucking hate this crossword. If ever I meet the guy who compiled it I’ll rip his fucking neck open.
If they’ve not already reached the point of overkill with these old scare stories, they must be very close to reaching it. And, after that kicks in, every lie they tell has the opposite effect to the one they think it’s having. Every time they trot out reheated glib bullshit like “Scotland the next Greek tragedy” we get one step closer to the day when people will simply dismiss it out of hand. It’s like watching an old Boris Karloff horror movie that terrified everyone back in the day but now it doesn’t scare anyone because, well, we’ve seen it all before.
@ScottieDog
Incidentally, the eurozone should never have been set up as a single currency area, it should have kept local currencies and had the euro as an overhead inter-trading currency. Again with many people having two accounts, or a single account with multiple currency views on it. The UK would have joined in that a long time ago, and so probably would all EU countries. Greece would probably not have happened.
As clowns go,give me IT any day over Ronald McDonald.
One thing they do have in common though is they prey on people’s fear.
IT however has more aesthetic appeal.
Less homelessness in Greece than England, fewer drug problems
ambulance response times better than England, they play better football in Greece, it’s sunny in Greece
Maybe the English will start going there instead of being immigrants to Scotland then voting to keep everything the same as the country they ran away from coz it’s crap
Lovely place Greece, go there at once….Puleeeze!
Greeks, you’re welcome in Scotland!
Just back from Greek Island Rhodes.
Hotels are jammed full, building work everywhere, (although busier in winter due to extreme heat of summer).
People are happy with life, and they work bloody hard as well, especially in tourism.
6am til 3.30pm then back at 5pm til 11pm, 7 days a week for 6 months solid, no days off.
Another “lazy greek” stereotype busted.
Everyone says Scotland should be independent in EU.
NOBODY cares about uk leaving EU, some welcome it.
The rest of the UK can’t join the Euro because it has too much debt, The second highest debt in the world and the most unequal country. The US has the biggest debt ratio. It spends half it’s money on the military. Colossall amounts. Causing chaos and death and destruction in the world. Unstable banking fraud etc. Brexit will mean Trident will go.
The London banks make £Trillions exchanging euros. An extra cost and red tape on international business. Buying euros on commission. Then changing back. Brexit will make it worse. BoE Brexit without a deal will cost £Trillions. London will no longer be a major financial centre, Jobs will go.
Greece joined the Euro with too much debt. Scotland without Westminster interference will have less debt. The debt in Scotland is caused by Westminster fiscal mismanagement. Illegal wars, banking fraud and tax evasion. No minimum pricing, illegal Trident, high Oil & Gas sector taxation, (40%) tax evasion, HMRC not fit for purpose, loan repayment on debts no borrowed or spent in Scotland.
Westminster total mismanagement of the UK economy. Brexit so the Tories and their cronies can continue to tax evade. Multimillionaires who would take £20 a week from the vulnerable. Enough is never enough for them. Wasting public money on groteque non mandated projects of no value. Embezzling pub,is funds. Ilegally starving and killing the most vulnerable people in the UK and world wide.
So now Pete Wishart is saying that Indy Ref 2 should be left until after the 2021 Holyrood election. Is this misdirection to fool the Unionists or just daftness?
Irish Rep etc shared the £ for years. One punt (Irish) was worth one pound. Could be changed at any bank. Irish republic joined the Euro, There is always a transition period when one currency is changed for another. Spain to euro in 2002. After three year transition period. That is what Alex Salmond -SNP stated – entirely factual. Use the pound then any change over decided. It would have to be used in a transition period. Totally realistic and factual. Westminster would rather damage the UK economy. Brexit shows the incompetent ignorance.
Hammond hasn’t got a clue. He was up interfering in the Oil & Gas sector. He laughed and sniggered at the idea of a Scottish navy. At the Westminster committee hearing. There are not even figates to protect the shores because of Hammond’s blatant mismanagement. Helicopters falling from the skies. Hammond spent £2Billion adapting naval helicopters. Oil sector helicopter firms were not prosecuted for breaking health and safety rules and causing death. The owners sold up for £Millions. An Inquiry was repeatedly refused. Even though the UK Transport Committee backed one. Goodwin refused.
@Ken500
For a time the punt floated against the pound, and was about 90p. But the coins were the same, so kids used to take bags of 50p coins into the north, change them into pounds, back over the border and change the pounds into punts. Easy money!
There seems to be a plan to hold a Indy Ref later. There must be a reason. Not sure why. Maybe to gauge support for it. Have a better/higher mandate? For easier transition. Maybe once the Tories are gone from Westminster. A better constructive deal? It could be possible. A gradual change over of powers. Agreed behind the scenes. Increased devolution. Gradual change. Rather than immediate. Wish they would hurry up though. Some folk getting impatient.
Links
https://www.snp.org/what_is_labour_s_position_on_brexit
https://randompublicjournal.com/2017/09/25/this-week-is-catalunyas-baptism-of-fire/
After Germany’s Elections: Europe Relaunched or on the Defensive?
https://www.scer.scot/database/ident-3446
https://www.lawscot.org.uk/media/1214157/MED-EU-withdrawal-and-the-potential-impact-on-health-related-matters-Law-Society-of-Scotland-Analysis-Paper.pdf
http://scotgoespop.blogspot.co.uk/2017/09/the-other-type-of.html?spref=tw
Warning do not eat or drink if you read this
http://archive.is/UchzU
The SNP has said the UK Government’s £5million investment in North Sea exploration was “welcome” but “small”.
http://archive.is/olwSF
http://www.scottishhousingnews.com/17439/thistle-housing-association-withholds-payment-to-energy-firm-over-incomplete-job/
Severe financial implications likely as East Lothian Council
http://archive.is/ysz8q
Will not archive, choose to read or don’t
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/north-korea-latest-kim-jong-un-nuclear-missile-test-formidable-shield-scotland-nato-tests-a7966761.html
Grenfell Survivors Forced To Use Foodbanks As Council Accused Of ‘Unprecedented Incompetence’
http://archive.is/K0hJQ
IMPORTANT statement on Selfdetermination by 1st Independent Expert on the promotion of a democratic Intl order (Human Rights Council)
https://dezayasalfred.wordpress.com/2017/09/23/media-statement-violation-of-the-right-of-self-determination-of-the-catalan-people/
@yesindyref2
More hedging bets I’d say. Pete Wishart is a pretty experienced parliamentarian by this point. He’ll be as aware as any that events and process will dictate timing. Smart enough to have some MPs declare pre Holyrood SEs and some post. (shrugs)
@Macart
So far if I was Sturgeon I wouldn’t do anything different, but you do wonder about the things some of them say, it goes with McAlpine’s views. Still, if it has me wondering, it’ll be working wonders to keep the Unionists happy 🙂
The punt was definitely worth a pound. Some folk used to change them. The notes could only be exchanged in (UK) banks. Coins cannot be exchange. For obvious reasons. Doubt if coins were exchanged in banks. They might have been spent in shops visa versa. Even today in Irish/rep (Europe?) Sure they will accept either currency or dollars (international currency) in some shops etc. They work out the exchange rate on calculators.
In Irish Rep the cost of living is cheaper (especially for visitors – by comparison) Some goods in certain subsidiary UK shops (brands) are slightly dearer. American visitors etc use Irish Rep as a base for overseas (European) visits. It is cheaper. Better value for money. More international flights in Scotland mean higher visitor numbers. Tourism. Being the 2nd most beautiful country in the world. Reported on the list (pro rata)
If using credit cards people are asked which currency ( exchange) they want to pay in. £ or Euro. Happens all over Euro (world) in the Far East it is dollars or other currency. In many banks (countries) in the world. There is no money trading exchange. Their currency is not tradable. For various reasons. That is why £, $ or € are used. To exchange or buy stuff. Ie if travellers etc are left with any local currency. It is worthless. Or cannot be exchanged. There is no provision for that facility. It cannot be changed at local or international banks. Especially in the (far) east. Although visitors can get local currency from normal cash points quite easily. It cannot be changed back but can be spent. Any left over is worthless.
@Ken500
My wife is Irish …
@yesindyref2
I think the dual idea is what this publication alludes to..
http://www.levyinstitute.org/pubs/ppb_134.pdf
I think for practical purposes that would probably happen anyway as it does in places in Europe. It would certainly be practical for northern English regions and southern Scotland.
In the long term pegging the currency would hold us back. It would also leave us open to george soros type speculators. I don’t actually think we will have any problems accruing GBP reserves in any case. I made the point on another site that the Scottish govt couldn’t guarantee the country’s private debt which would allow people to redenominate (if they chose to) their debt into Scottish pound. This would save mortgage payers etc from having to worry about devaluation.
Thanks for the great links. Nana.
He must be right. After all, Edinburgh is “THE ATHENS OF THE NORTH”.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_pound#Breaking_the_link_with_sterling
“In the 1970s, the European Monetary System was introduced. Ireland decided to join it in 1978, while the United Kingdom stayed out.[6]
The European Exchange Rate Mechanism finally broke the one-for-one link that existed between the Irish pound and the pound sterling; by 30 March 1979 an exchange rate was introduced.”
…
“Until 1986, all decimal Irish coins were the same shape and size as their UK counterparts. After this, however, all new denominations or redesigned coins were of different sizes to the UK coinage. The new 20p coin introduced that year and the £1 coin (introduced in 1990) were completely different in size, shape and composition from the previously introduced UK versions. When the UK 5p and 10p coins were reduced in size, the Irish followed suit, but the new Irish 10p was smaller than the new UK version introduced in 1992 and the new Irish 5p was slightly larger than the UK version introduced in 1990. The Irish 50p was never reduced in size (as it had been in the UK in 1997).”
“The Irish pound was superseded by the euro on 1 January 1999. Euro currency did not begin circulation until the beginning of 2002.”
Like I said, bags of 50p coins!
@yesindyref2
The FMs done well to stick to her statements and simply get on with governing. Mind you the opposition and their meeja do want that date firmed up. (Heh)
And that’s the point. THEY want a date. One they can then attack and take apart with whatever spurious bullshit comes to mind.
P R O C E S S and E V E N T S!
With all this talk of extensions (which are permissable) in the EU A50 process and talks, the Scottish government have no idea themselves when talks will officially conclude and Scotland will face the real threat of involuntary expulsion. The consistent line from the SG throughout has been ‘after talks conclude, but before Brexit is finalised’. That date extends and retracts damn near daily.
If extension is granted, it may well wind up post 2021. If May walks out in a stroomph, it could be as early as autumn 2018. The conclusion of the process and how the UK gov responds to the Scottish parliament and democracy in the interim is the screen to watch.
As of yesterday, the Scottish parliament still refuses to ratify the Brexit bill for pretty damn good reasons (see under naked theft of rights, resources and democratic mandate). Now what do you suppose Westminster’s reaction to that will be? It’d be worth a punt to say tear up the Scotland bill and force through brexit legislation on an unwilling partner’s population.
But that’s just a wild hypothesis… 😉
@Alex Clark
Sorry Bill Mitchell can get quite technical but he and Richard Murphy are close in terms of their economic first principles. Here they are in a London event last year. Recommend also watching the Q&A after words..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OVAROe3gW4
This video by Stephanie Kelton is a more understandable explanation of how macroeconomics works especially in relation to a country with its own floating currency…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d57M6ATPZIE
Oooooo! Nana’s links.
Kettle time. 🙂
@yesindyre2
Ref the Euro, yes a mistake but can understand the sentiments at the time. It was very much geared to keep Germany and France happy. It really only serves Germany – a big net exporter having an artificially weak currency.
Hopefully sense can be seen and countries like Greece can peacefully reflloat the drachma. I’m not sure Wolfgang schauble will allow that to happen and that IMHO has shown the very ugly side of the EU.
@Macart
The hope would be that in the absence of any date set for IR2, and apparent signs of no IR2 until after full Brexit, the non-activist people would get restless and end up demanding IR2 so they can vote YES to Indy and get out of Dodge. It’d probably be my devious plan to do that, but meanwhile of course some of us YESsers are getting restless. Small price to pay all the same.
@ScottieDog
It’s short-sighted too, force people closer together and they naturally spring apart “get out of my face”. But leave it to its own pace, and the EU would get closer together.
Economics “expert” who does not know the difference between plus and minus- referring only to the time he melted the electrics on his boat by fitting the battery on backwards 🙂
At least Greece is in the fcuking EU.
Ronald MacDonald may just have overdosed on the eponymous product. Junk in, junk out.
Greece is not a basket case. Economic performance has improved since the ‘crisis’. An independent Scotland is still a better option than one anchored to the anglocentric and exceptionalist British state adrift on a wing and a prayer.
https://thoughtcontrolscotland.com/2017/09/26/latest-poll-puts-snps-westminster-gains-up-24-and-also-estimates-24-of-labour-voters-are-pro-independence/
Will not archive, choose whether to read it or not
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/brexit-paul-krugman-zero-chance-britain-better-off-eu-leave-single-market-custom-union-exports-trade-a7965871.html
Dugdale says “whatever happened to straight talking honest politics”
https://twitter.com/JamieRoss7/status/912569154909204480
@yesindyref2
Folk need to remember that on the conclusion of indyref 2014 many, if not most, probably thought the boat had sailed permanently on their chance of seeing an independent Scotland. A good many, including myself, thought at least a decade before any chance may be available. A decade of patient persuasion and gradual build of confidence.
Events have the habit of making an arse of reasoned thought however. Whodda thunk Camo would have launched EVEL or an EU ref within a couple of years? It was always a foregone conclusion they’d renege on pledges made during indyref. Just as it was a foregone conclusion they’d seek to neuter the Scottish parliament and bin their devo to the max assurance, but damn! EVEL and EUref back to back? That took a special kind of arrogance and idiocy (heady mix).
So yeah. People fearing to lose that second chance will be antsy as hell and frustrated that there isn’t a hurry up on the go. Every new twist and turn will be murdurr on the nerves. That’s not how democracy works though and it’s not how politics works (would that it were otherwise). What appears glacially slow and frustrating is actually moving at a pretty rapid pace toward a conclusion. What that conclusion will be is up to us, the electorate. It’s about whether we can stand the pace, keep our nerve and resolve. It’s about whether we bend or break in the face of the state and the actions of their media and poplitical class.
As I see it, our job and responsibility to one another in the meantime, is to convince as many as we can personally. Look after folks as best we can in hard times. Calm nerves and reassure where required.
Or we could run about in a blind panic with our underpants on our head shouting feck, feckitty fecking, fecked feckers. Either works. 🙂
Brexit negotiations scrapped. UK Brexit demands begin.
According to Bloomberg this morning Theresa May’s newly discovered positive attitude has evaporated as David Davis announces there will be no payments by the UK until a trade deal is agreed.
@ Nana – the Alfred De Zayas article is a must read, including the comments section. Interesting insight into International Law and Human rights applicable to Scotland. Worrying that the UN has not publicly issued it yet?
https://dezayasalfred.wordpress.com/2017/09/23/media-statement-violation-of-the-right-of-self-determination-of-the-catalan-people/
Aw naw no anither wan , these experts ur like Glasga buses if you miss wan anither will be along any minute noo .
O/T
Donaldas lead of North British TV is displaying clever nuance in change of terminology within SNPbad reporting.
Reflecting the Tony Hall stamp of approval, to represent position Of UK support at all times & in all things ( for the greater good)
Now that’s real change under the new broom isn’t it 😉
Ah councillor R Macdonald for Highland Council Skye ward, totally slates NHS Scotland at every chance, guy is an erse
https://www.highland.gov.uk/councillors/45/ronald_macdonald
Ah wunner if Mr McDonald was told the Herald would be running with this piece .
https://www.facebook.com/groups/523132447784066/permalink/1385877801509522/
Running a nation using a foreign currency will always present a solvency risk, could an independent Scotland run out of GBP? Yes. Could rUK with its own issuIng central bank? NO.
If you don’t issue the currency you need to provide a decently return on the bonds you issue for people to take the risk. If you ARE the currency issuer there is no risk and you can issue bonds at 0% and the bond issue will be over subscribed.
The Bank of England owns one quarter of UK debt. So the UK govt is paying interest to itself rendering the national debt a bit of a joke.
That said if Scotland did have debt denominated in GBP it could legally redenominate that into its own sovereign currency via convention of Lex monitae
One country one currency.
Wullie B the trouble is , though he might be a bahoochie/ bahookie of extraordinary size , he gets headlined in some dreadful rag – unlike the more sane , sensible and accurate.
The media is the greatest enemy.
Maybe this so called expert Ronald McDonald would be better looking at the UK, after all given its level of debt it already has its well on its way to becoming the new Greece.
And it will get even worse if Corbyn ever gets into power, given the utopia he is promising to deliver, Renationalisation, taking PFI back in house all with no price tags attached.
http://www.progressivepulse.org/brexit/brexit-negotiations-how-is-the-uk-doing/
yesindyref2 said:
“So now Pete Wishart is saying that Indy Ref 2 should be left until after the 2021 Holyrood election.”
Under Nicola Sturgeon’s leadership, the SNP no longer stand for indy, no longer campaign for indy. They aren’t keen on an indyref either. Postponed talking about it for another year and in the meantime leading SNPers want it postponed indefinitely.
When I say this people ask a pertinent question: well, what’s the alternative to voting SNP?
Not voting SNP is a last resort.
People need to make it clear they aren’t happy with the SNP’s handling of things. They will vote SNP if the SNP put indy and sovereignty at the forefront of SNP actions. And give them the chance to change.
If the SNP continue to focus on WM devolution, and won’t listen to the independists, then we need YES candidates for the next election in 2021.
YES candidates with three policies only:
1. A sovereign Scottish parliament, that has the power to decide constitutional matters and every other matter pertinent to Scotland.
2. Hold a parliamentary vote to end Scotland’s membership of the UK Union.
3. If they fail to win 1 and 2, they vote against any attempts to form a subservient devolution administration.
I keep breeding on Twitter about Baxter and Rowley’s speeches at the Labour Conference yesterday but there was no mention of them in the Herald on-line yesterday or in the Herald newspaper today. Just a short paragraph about Mr Rowley’s speech buried at the end of a short item about a speech by someone called Laird.
How strange that the Herald is not bogging up the Scottish contingent’s contribution to conference. On second thoughts, maybe not given the quality of the contributions.
Good moaning Ledgerwood
(autocorrect can be very funny of times).
Wait! Breeding and bogging are perfectly fine and in context. 🙂
@ Colin Alexander
The SNP is fully committed to Independence by way of a Referendum but the timing must be right and preferably when opinion polls show a lead for YES. No one can put a date on this just now.
Losing another referendum will definitely put it off the Agenda for a generation.
In the meantime the SNP can build on incremental increased powers so that the next step to full independence will be a short one for open minded unionists.
Pete Wishart’s article is here
http://www.thenational.scot/news/15557287.Senior_SNP_MP_calls_on_the_party_to_do_more_to_inspire_Yes_voters_in_order_to_win_indyref2/
“Or we could run about in a blind panic with our underpants on our head shouting feck, feckitty fecking, fecked feckers.”
Mr Macart, have you installed surveillance cameras in my garden?
Pravdasound4 had Polly Toynbee (I think) telling the nation that Corbyn’s Left-Wing (jeepers) party is “confident and united”.
Porridge on wall moment…
geeo: re Rhodes. I agree, beautiful island and charming and helpful Greek people, with a justified pride in themselves. Was there in July and hope to return to Greece in the spring.
I’m thinking of compiling a list of Greek and Scottish contributions to culture and the sciences just to set the Yoons a’frothing but it would probably take me too long.
Would the Herald’s scaremongering article be reacting to this?
Brent crude up to $59 a barrel.
https://www.ft.com/content/1ad15088-a1ec-11e7-9e4f-7f5e6a7c98a2
@yesindyref2 says: 26 September, 2017 at 1:36 am:
“… Regards bilbo’s blog I agree regarding our own currency, and state spending etc. But it does ignore the political reason for having a currency union, which is both certainty of value and cost of exchanges between the two parts of the union … “
Why all the pish about the currency, yesindyref2?
It is now and it always has been Westminster Establishment deflection to cause divisiveness. There really isn’t a problem.
First of all the Pound Sterling is an international trading currency and as such it is a commodity like any other commodity on the open market.
So just as a trader can buy, for example, corn or barley on the open market when the price is low and then resell it when the price goes up that same trader can buy the Pound Sterling when the price is down and sell it moments later when the price goes back up at a profit. The trader can sit at a computer and do this all day.
However, these days they don’t even need to sit at a computer doing so for there are algorithms that do the job far faster than humans can do so and the traders have such algorithms running on any conceivable commodity on the stock market.
It is the lifeblood of the London Stock-market. That’s the real problem for these people don’t care if the pound is falling because only with fluctuating commodity prices can they make profits, (or losses), but with the computers doing the work only impatient, foolhardy, greedy compulsive gamblers incur losses.
This is an even more true statement when you look at how much of the problems were caused by rogue traders gambling with other people’s money.
That’s the first thing to realise about the currency – it is a commodity – and no longer tied to the Gold Standard.
It means several things – the first being that the Pound Sterling, being a commodity, thus belongs to anyone, any organisation or any country that buys it on the open market.
It is thus easy to buy the pound, issue notes to the value of what you bought and issue your own notes to that value within your own country.
Yet the great big truth that is never mentioned out loud is that the Scottish Banks do just that as they can legally print their own bank notes and this has been going on since the Treaty of Union came into force.
The Scottish Banks print their own notes and then deposit, in a Bank of England Vault, special large denomination bank notes to the value of the Pounds Sterling that the Scottish banks have issued.
Thus the Bank of England holds the Scottish Bank’s currency in their vaults but bear this in mind – Those large denomination bank notes, (Promissory Notes), are redeemable by paying the Pound Sterling for them to the Bank of England.
That is what, “Bank Notes”, (Promissory Notes), are. Read any Bank Note and it states on the note, “The Bank of, wherever, promises to pay the bearer on demand the sum of, (face value), at our head office, (address)”, and it is signed by the Bank’s Treasurer.
So the truths about the Scottish currency are :-
No one can prevent an independent Scotland using the Pound Sterling because it doesn’t belong to the Westminster Parliament who nationalised the B of E in 1946. Sterling belongs to anyone who has, “bought it”, and that is proven every day when you look at the currency exchange rates. These are the prices of the currencies against each other as they change hands on Stock-Markets throughout the World.
So Scotland, as an equally sovereign KINGDOM partner in the United Kingdom is co-owner of the Bank of England – that in spite of it’s title – does not belong to England alone.
Scotland already has a distinctive Pound Sterling currency as it prints its own bank notes. It is, obviously, at present tied to the Pound Sterling but, if Scotland was independent, the Scottish Government could choose to un-tie it if and when the Scottish Pound was valued greater than what would then have become the Pound Sterling English.
As long as the two currencies were tied together their notes could be freely used throughout the former United Kingdom countries without the extra costs of exchange rates.
Upon the Scottish Pound Sterling being untied to the English Pound – only then would the costs involved by exchanging currencies be invoked.
So unless you can find anything untrue in the above statements the truth is that there really is no problems with currency that would prevent independence – and Westminster knows that full well.
@Tinto Chiel
“Mr Macart, have you installed surveillance cameras in my garden?”
Mibbie.
The bit that stands out in this item is ” WOULD HAVE ” , this infers a Guaranteed outcome to a specific move on our part namely voting “YES” , always very suspicious of anyone who predicts the future , especially when so many variables are in play .
In short PISH , Desperation stands out printing this tripe , i wonder what is next in the great spin cycle ,probably SNHS .
Oh Dear SKY backing the scottish government’s move on recycling plastic bottles , and at the Labour conference , oops .thats one that slipped out , no doubt Labour will try and claim it as their own .
Oops! Sorry about the excessive bold in my previous comment. I made some corrections and inadvertently messed up the HTML closing tags.
@Robert peffers “It is now and it always has been Westminster Establishment deflection to cause divisiveness. There really isn’t a problem.”
Why all the pish about Westminster, having our own currency has nothing to do with Westminster, and your doubts about whether Scotland could use the rUK pound are also totally unfounded. The GBP is a fully tradeable currency, and short of the UK Government imposing currency restrictions, limiting the free movement of currency, there’s nothing the rUK could do to stop it.
Anyway, the discussion was about which is better for Scotland, own currency being the inevitable recommendation of bilbo, my suggestion was for a dual currency system to get the advantage of both options.
I said ” short of the UK Government imposing currency restrictions”, should have been ” short of the UK Government imposing currency restrictions which would mean it was NOT a fully tradeable currency”.
One of those times where you highlight a single word to delete it and the mouse moves up and deletes a whole phrase instead.
You should always use bold type Robert.
@ScottieDog
From that article “Pilkington recommends a gradual transition involving a “dual currency” period. ”
Absolutely, he must have read my postings in the Herald 🙂
Yes it could be gradual, and even semi-permanent. If banks leapt on the idea, it could then become a triple standard suiting our trading relations with the rUK and EU, and tourism to and from both, with very small transaction fees of pennies a time, similar to those large businesses get on credit card transactions, and even small businesses if we shop around a bit (debit cards at 20p for instance, regardless of amount).
Add some form of electronic currency, and Scotland is fit to go for the 22nd century. We did invvent banking after all.
Sick of reading about how the SNP need to hurry up with indyref2 and all the slavering pish about how, when what they should do.
It is really simple, even for the pretendy yessers on here.
1. The JOB of the SNP is to deliver an independence referendum to the People of Scotland. No more, no less.
2. The JOB of the People of Scotland, is to put a cross in the box marked YES. No more, no less.
50% plus one vote = Independence is achieved.
Everything else is a distraction.
@Capella,
Sorry for late reply. Re the Alfred De Zayas blogpost, I find it’s always a good idea to read the comments on articles. I’ve found a good many links that way.
When it comes to the currency for a newly independent Scotland my thoughts are that we should start with a hybrid of ‘Sterlingisation’ and a currency board (i.e. all those Scottish bank notes could continue to circulate) and move from there quickly to a full currency board (i.e. a Scottish £ which behinds the scenes is backed by deposits of £ sterling) with all rUK notes and coinage replaced with Scottish equivalents. (Though obviously retailers would be free to accept the rUK ones if they so wished.)
From there it’s just a hop, skip and a jump to breaking the link and having a fully floating Scottish £ which the government of the day can do when it seems most appropriate.
It’s roughly the same process that the Irish Free State and then the Republic of Ireland followed, and it seems to have worked out reasonably well for them.
alexicon,
“I’ve never seen you write about boycotting any other newspaper other that the National.”
That goes without saying on a genuine pro-independence blog.
Although an exception has to be made for The Guardian reader with a Slovene girlfriend.
It is the wolves in sheep’s clothing, like Labour in Scotland before it was exposed, that need to be exposed.
“That goes without saying on a genuine pro-independence blog.
It has gone without you saying.
Maybe try a bit of balance and you’ll be taken more seriously.
After all it is the Herald that is being discussed here.
“Although an exception has to be made for The Guardian reader with a Slovene girlfriend.
Sorry, you’ve lost me there.
I don’t think you’re referring to me, but just in case, I don’t read the guardian and I wish I had a Sloven girlfriend 😉
Odd isn’t it, how the rubric isn’t “could have been the next Ireland”?
What’s different about Ireland and Greece? Both are countries on the periphery of Europe, like Scotland. Ireland had a bank bust following which the taxpayer ended up bailing them out as happened in the UK too. Ireland, like Greece, couldn’t just print the money.
So what’s happened since? A decade later Ireland has, again, the fastest growing economy in Europe and its debt to GDP ratio is lower than that of the UK and Greece is in budgetary surplus and dodging taxes is no longer quite the national sport it was (much of the money uncollected remains in London property, using British Virgin Island companies with nominee directors as fronts).
Next time someone says “could have been the next Greece” ask “why not Ireland?”. Scotland is more like Ireland. The idea that it would go down the plughole without the Bank of England is nonsense. The Irish suffered the worst bank crash imaginable, because hedge funds were dumping money into a property bubble, but they survived and are prospering to the extent that idea of leaving the EU with the UK is inconceivable — the last opinion poll put support for staying in the EU at 88%.
Incomes in Ireland are higher than in any UK nation. Inequality is lower and social mobility is higher. Scotland is better placed than the Irish ever were to run their own affairs. Just imagine if the Scots had believed it and acted on it before. They say the best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago and the next best is now.