The world's most-read Scottish politics website

Wings Over Scotland

The government in waiting

Posted on September 25, 2017 by

Labour will start their autumn conference in Brighton properly today, but the comrades have already been at the seaside over the weekend. We thought we’d see how the UK’s official alternative to the Tories was getting along.

We’re sure it’s a well-oiled machine.

Apparently last night was “Scotland Night”, so someone was hastily despatched to find the cheapest nylon Saltire they could find for a quick selfie. Sadly the budget didn’t stretch to a travel iron.

We’re always mystified by Scottish Labour’s claim that anyone’s ever tried to deny them the use of the Saltire. The only people who’ve ever tried to stop them claiming it are themselves, when they endlessly insist that they’re not about flags and flags are bad and only nationalists care about flags.

And if we were Anas Sarwar we might have been a little bit embarrassed to be pitching for leader on an anti-privileged-few platform in the week we’d just made all three of our privately-educated children millionaires before any of them were even 10 years old.

(The youngest millionaire in the Sarwar household is now a fresh-faced 16 months.)

Although maybe Sarwar was too busy rushing around deleting his tax return, after he’d posted it on his website in an attempt to silence an ongoing trainwreck of criticism of his financial affairs, only to have to delete it after realising he’d done a ham-fisted job of redacting his personal information and had just told the entire internet his address, National Insurance number and bank account details.

Afterwards he was all set to dance his cares away at “Scots Night”:

But tragically:

Still, elsewhere at the event the party was putting on a display of unity.

Which at least helped to cover up the huge row going on over the fact that delegates had chosen to simply pretend Brexit wasn’t happening at the last main opposition party conference before 2018.

The party’s press office also chose Conference Eve to make an ambitious claim:

Presumably in the hopes that Wales’ collective memory span was less than 10 weeks:

Meanwhile, Jeremy Corbyn was promising to visit Scotland every month:

Just like he did in September 2015:

Although by our count he’s only actually managed four visits in the 24 months since then. But we’re sure he means it this time, perhaps buoyed by the ecstatic reception and vast crowds he attracted in the summer.

(Corbyn made the same promise to Wales in 2015, and hasn’t kept that one either.)

Earlier, the current acting Scottish leader – while refusing to deny that he’d deliberately set up Nicola Sturgeon with a perfect feedline to attack the beleaguered Anas Sarwar at last week’s FMQs – made the astonishing revelation on Sunday Politics Scotland that even though he was Kezia Dugdale’s deputy, he’d only been given “perhaps 10, 15 minutes” notice of her resignation last month.

We can only pray that the next two days are as entertaining, and the signs are good.

But those hoping for a credible party of power to challenge the Tories at Westminster may be less amused.

Print Friendly

    1 Trackbacks/Pingbacks

    1. 25 09 17 12:56

      The government in waiting | speymouth

    187 to “The government in waiting”

    1. Muscleguy says:

      After the indyref here in the Yes city and having attended various forms of rugby at Murrayfield over the years I have NEVER seen such a poorly ironed saltire in that tweet you showed.

      They are so proud to be Scots they are happy to be photographed behind such a one and tweet it to the world.

      It shows Scotland is an also-ran thought, even for the Scottish delegation.

    2. winifred mccartney says:

      Labour Party Conf – the equivalent of ‘don’t mention the war’.

      As for labour in Scotland – Sarwar should never even have been selected as a candidate far less for leader, of course he is a list msp not even elected.

      Labour health spokesperson, not paying living wage, which leads to poverty and health issues. Takes remuneration from tobacco sales and has done for years. He supplies the patients for his beloved nhs but only after he has taken their money.

    3. heedtracker says:

      Dentistry’s loss is clearly not Scots politics gain. Is his address somewhere nice too? Hope so, socialist workers like the red tories in Scotland, do all tend to have very swish abodes.

    4. Proud Cybernat says:

      Did his kids get their millions delivered in nice, fat, brown envelopes?

      Just asking.

    5. Macart says:

      Take it you’ve also seen this beaut Rev?

    6. heedtracker says:

      he’d only been given “perhaps 10, 15 minutes” notice of her resignation.

      Oh aye, so how come Kez got such a lovely and coordinated BBC Scotland send off, across the whole of the tory press gimp network? The Graun in particular gave Kez a very fond farewell, for days.

    7. cuilean says:

      Labour deciding not to mention Brexit at their party conference, is like passengers on a sinking Titanic not bothering to talk about the lack of lifeboats.

      Apart from anything else, the Tories are all at each others throats right now, which the Labour Party could really capitalize upon for their own political gain, but instead, (as they do again and again and again), they give their alleged arch-enemy another free pass.

    8. Naina Tal says:

      Could shoot peas through that saltire. Oh Wait! You can see right through it it’s that thin,jist like everything aboot the so called Labour Party Scottish branch.

    9. And just to prove that they’re sincere
      they’ll sing ” the red flag ” once a year

    10. I depends on how Corbyn defines how long a month is, which rather reminds me of the Spencer Tracy film about the trial of the teacher who taught evolution in the US.

      What I find even more interesting is Corbyn’s hypocrisy, he is imposing a discipline on the Labour party which he himself didn’t appear to adhere to when he rebelled as a back bencher.

    11. Graemeo Rab says:

      Kez’s decision my bahookie Alex Rowley. Yer actual Big Brit Boss sacked her because she was a Diddie.

    12. Legerwood says:

      According to one report Labour do not want to discuss Brexit because it would split the party!!

      Can’t think of anything to say to that – blood pressure issues.

    13. auld highlander says:

      Ach, it’s just a jolly for the delegates, no idea what’s going on and don’t care either, living in cloud cuckoo land sitting around talking crap and listening to plenty of verbal diahorrea too, imaginative receipts for everything including the taxi fare from one lamp post to another. And it’s all at the expense of the members.

    14. Betty Boop says:

      @ Proud cybernat, 10:51am

      Oooh, controversial much… 🙂 Had the same thoughts myself, but, we’re in 21st century now and I’m “sure” it would be electronic transfer, but, from where to where…? That’s another story, isn’t it?

    15. galamcennalath says:

      Not so much shooting themselves in the foot as losing both legs over not debating Brexit. How can a political party avoid debating the UK issue of the moment?

      Perhaps they are afraid they might actually form a firm policy on Brexit!

    16. Capella says:

      Scottish Power backing the Labour Unionists again. That will be why the BBC are devoting so much time to advertising them on the website and a lengthy advertorial interview on R Scotland yesterday by the “business editor” Douglas Fraser.

      Wonder if the Basques know that parent country Iberdrola is so staunchly Unionist.

    17. Robert Graham says:

      Thanks to Nana & others who have posted links to Twitter re Mr Corbyn & Labour’s Conference ,and their wee gaffes .

      A strange Animal this Labour in Scotland lot , its obvious that Labour in Scotland are the source of Corbyn’s bizarre remarks and his tainted views of Scottish Politics , so easily refuted a child could see through the obvious lies & quite baffling distortions.

      While Labour in Wales are able to speak and corporate with Nicola Sturgeon & the Scottish Government , they have a shared goal namely trying to sort out the Tory Brexit mess , and at least they know the enemy the Tory Government .

      Meanwhile back in Jockland , Labour continue to miss the target , they are quite happy to cosy up to a morally deficient Tory Party in some councils , while their National bosses are fighting against them . A truly confused party .

    18. panda paws says:

      Seen on twitter – can’t remember the exact words

      Anas Sarwar doing his bit for child poverty. Granted only in the Anas Sarwar household.

    19. Helena Brown says:

      Thanks Macart for the tweet. Labour Party, Don’t you just love them, not.

    20. Ken500 says:

      What a crew. Good for a laugh but as a creditable alternative? That is taking humour a bit far. Tragedy. When the feeling gone and they can’t go on. Tragedy.

    21. Artyhetty says:

      Ah, Labour, what a shower they really are. People of England, you have no efffective or real opposition to the Tories. The sooner you get that into your heads and do something about it, the better.

      As for Cor-or-or-bynn, no ta. We in Scotland have plenty to be getting on with and just don’t have the time, or desire, to accomodate you once a year never mind once a month! You would be speaking into an empty metal bucket.

      Corbyn and his so called Labour party including their branch in Scotland, are a disgrace to all that is fair and just, speaking for no one but themselves, pretending to speak for people who are struggling, while lining their own pockets. Get lost.

    22. winifred mccartney says:

      Is this true? Sarwar only paid £1,700 in tax last year.

    23. Capella says:

      It’s a hard sell. Call Kaye this morning was advertising Labour’s “cut credit card debt” policy with a phone in.

      In other news, the AfD are the new darlings of the BBC. Isn’t it exciting having Nazis elected to the Bundestag again after all these years. Sorry – I meant alt-right. Their 13% of the vote equals “winning” the election as far as the BBC are concerned.

      Whereas in London and Washington the “alt-right” in fact the government with their anti-immigrant policies.

    24. Marcia says:

      Oh the irony – well they need an iron for that flag. If they are incompetent in opposition they would be worse in Government. They have a past history as proof.

    25. Jason Smoothpiece says:

      You have to wonder about the funding for the Scottish branch of the English Nationalist Labour party.

      In the future, following independence, there will be a book out telling of the funding of Labour and BTG and the No groups, I suspect HM Government will have a hand therein.

      As for Mr Sarwar leave him alone he will be a great leader for SLab.

    26. HandandShrimp says:

      A well used flag there I see 🙂 🙂

    27. Capella says:

      Come to think of it – didn’t Hitler secure the farmers’ vote by pledging to cancel their debt? (Since we’re reminiscing about the rise and rise of the alt-right)

    28. Croompenstein says:

      FFS apparently Emily Thornberry was so poor as a child she had to have her cats put down..

    29. galamcennalath says:


      Aye, a section of UK (mainly English) society do love a good fascist alt right party.

      I suppose there are extreme fringes in a lot of countries. However the problem in the UK is that a disproportionately large component of the media are supporters of the far right. And since the BBC no longer does journalism but merely regurgitates the tripe from the msm, they too are heralds for fascism the alt right.

      The UKIP phenomenon would never have risen above other loony far right organisations had it not been for extensive BBC coverage.

    30. Street Andrew says:

      Discussion of what nonsense the Labour Party is engaged in is really quite tedious. It’s not as if they were saying anything that isn’t firmly within the orthodox box.

      Anybody know what they would do about Brexit? No, and if you follow the conference avidly you still won’t know because it’s off the agenda. Because they have no more idea how to deal with the shambles than the Tories have.

      Corbyn and May are both largely preoccupied with the problem of being able to pretend their parties have any consistent collective opinion on anything except clinging to Scotland as part of the Union.

    31. Dr Jim says:

      Proud to say I’ve never voted Labour in my life
      I don’t like liars, competent incompetent or otherwise

    32. jimnarlene says:

      This Twitter comment, from Simone, sums up Corbyn.

    33. galamcennalath says:

      Jason Smoothpiece says:

      following independence, there will be a book out

      …. a whole library perhaps, even 🙂

      I think iScotland should have a truth and reconciliation commission with a remit to investigate and establish the who, how and why of undermining democracy in Scotland from say the 70s until Indy.

      No punishments, no reprecussions, just establish the truth so we can move on with that period fully understood and put behind us.

    34. CapnAndy says:

      Ironing Flags ??? FFS. There’s only one way you iron a flag and that’s with a strong wind and horizontal rain.

    35. Corbynsays if labour get into power they will look at tax avoidance why does he not put a stop. To it make everyone pay tax under the same system no loopholes no offshore accounts etc., put all those shyster lawyers out of business or would that be a to socialist thing to do ???the people’s party it would make you laugh

    36. jfngw says:

      In his mind Corbyn believes he visits the three nations every month. It is rumoured he achieves this by visiting McDonalds whilst listening to Blodwyn Pig on a device he believes is called an iprod. His knowledge of the UK outside London is unquestionable.

    37. Capella says:

      Astonishing brass neck of Johanna Baxter at the Labour Party Conference blaming the SNP for not paying the Glasgow City Council women equal pay. Read the detail below the clip:

      The lies and lies of the alt-right.

    38. Macart says:

      OFFS! That is appalling hypocrisy from Johanna Baxter.

      How long have Labour run Glasgow council? How many decades?

      There isn’t enough fucking brasso in stock for that amount of neck. That wee rant is EXACTLY why they’re not fit to run any damn thing. Neither honesty or responsibility on show.

      It’s always someones else’s fault.

      Glasgow is well shot of them.

    39. dandy dons 1903 says:

      Red Tories and all other British Nationalist Parties need to be exposed for the sham they are, working collectively against Scotland and the Scottish people, Brexit is a case in point.

    40. liz says:

      They only get away with the lies because of our corrupt media.

      It makes me mad. How dare they blame SNP for Glasgow’s problems.

      I hate the Labour party

    41. Mike says:

      Can somebody please explain to me what happened in the 2017 GE?
      Did the collective memory of the Scottish electorate have a senior moment?
      Did they think they would get MPs more willing and able to serve Scotland than the MPs they ousted?
      What does Westminster and these odious UK parties have to do before people in Scotland stop allowing them to take Scotland to the cleaners?
      Why is it so hard for so many people to see whats right in front of their faces kicking them in the teeth on a daily basis?
      No wonder clinical depression is on the up.

    42. Ken500 says:

      How can people like Johanna Baxter stand up and tell blatant lies, for money. It is just astonishing. The Labour Party just goes down and down the tubes. What do they think they are achieving but lining their greedy pockets getting found out all over the place. Just appalling.

      All of the major UK political Parties benefit from tax evading. That’s why they want out of the EU. So it can continue.

    43. Robert Graham says:

      There you go, Labour in Scotland basking in the limelight of English Labour, presently going through the all our yesterdays we have been responsible for all good and great events in the last million years,

      Pity Labour in Scotland decided to reverse that trend, everything the SNP has done they are intent in reversing , free Prescriptions , bridge Tolls, Bus passes , you name it just out of sheer spite, because they didn’t implement it .

      Remember Lamont , No free ride, and Scots don’t have the intellectual capacity to run a country.
      Mc Donnell now on PFI contracts, Oh what a f/n Howler this is , Remember Trusty Jack Mc Connells ( only game in town PFI deals ) .
      Christ Comedy at its best, believing the Jocks have a permanent short term memory loss.

    44. Ken500 says:

      Clinical Depression could be being mistreated. In some case misdiagnosed. New research. It is a physical condition which needs anti-inflammatory drugs and other methods to relieve symptoms. Diet and exercise where possible, Not anti depressants. These can give people mood swings, dark and suicidal thoughts. Instead of appropriate treatment.

      Total abstinence for people with additive problems. 1 in 10? (Plus family colleagues and friends). It affects everybody. The whole community. Doctors do not receive adequate medical training on drink/drug addiction at Medical School/University. None at all.

    45. Ken500 says:

      Not a lot of people at Labour Scots night?

    46. ScottishPsyche says:

      Unbelievable that Baxter is getting away with this stuff and it will probably be shown on Reporting Scotland as a highlight.The facts of the equal pay dispute need to be reiterated at every turn to give people context, yet the MSM allow disinformation like this to permeate without comment.

      The recent Sarwar stuff shows how much the Press knows about SLab and keeps to themselves only to use it when it suits them.

      I recently read conversations on social media between that Herald reporter and that BBC presenter about the plebs not being able to understand the Catalonia situation and the lack of coverage.

      It was extraordinarily patronising and missed the point that if they had covered it sooner the misunderstandings supposedly held by us plebs could have been cleared up. Better though to demean and deprive people of information and sneer when they get upset or get it wrong.

      Why do they think we do not trust them and seek information elsewhere?

    47. Why would the Labour party change the habit of telling lies, hasn’t it as tactic worked successfully for it in the past?

      As long as it believes there are enough people who are too stupid or simply disinterested to find out the lies its telling,
      Labour will continue to blame anyone else for when its councils failed/fought against implementing equal pay for women.

    48. ScottishPsyche says:

      @Ken 500

      There is an entire speciality known now as Liaison Psychiatry that deals with physical illness presenting with psychological symptoms and treats both. It is what my life’s work has been about and believe me it is taught at every level in medical schools and has been since the study of medicine began. Whether it is practised by Drs is a different matter but it is well established.

    49. george wood says:

      Isn’t putting money into a childs name a way of paying less tax?

      Isn’t the Sarwar family as a unit gaining financially from what he is doing?

      It also shows the folly of increasing tax on earned income, when you don’t control unearned income revenues.

    50. Tinto Chiel says:

      And they say vaudeville’s dead Rev?

      I love those end of pier shows with their pathetic clowns, dodgy,out-of-date material and slapstick pratfalls.

      It’s just they’re supposed to be a serious political party…

    51. Ken500 says:

      New research coming out recently shows that it is possible clinical depression is related to a combination of (mind) but physical conditions. Anti inflammitory drugs are more affective for clinical depression than anti depressants. It is new research. The medical profession have been treating the mind and body as separate entities. Separate specialities instead of related. Interdependent. New not old. Read about it.

    52. Scott says:

      george wood says:

      25 September, 2017 at 1:03 pm

      Isn’t putting money into a childs name a way of paying less tax?

      Isn’t the Sarwar family as a unit gaining financially from what he is doing?

      It also shows the folly of increasing tax on earned income, when you don’t control unearned income revenues.

      Makes me wonder who will pay the school fees now £30,000 year out of his MSP salary??

    53. Proud Cybernat says:

      Brighton nae Brexit but loadsa Brasso…

    54. Not Convinced says:

      When it comes to Brexit, it isn’t so much that Labour doesn’t have a policy on it as it’s Labour policy not to have a policy on it! If we wanted to be fair to them we could agree that they’re stuck in a bit of a pickle – Corbyn is pro-Brexit and regards the EU as a “bosses club”, most of their MPs (& MSPs etc) are anti-Brexit and their voters are split on the issue. So any position they do take it going to split the party *and* their voters.

      So the only way they can go, seemingly, is to sweep Brexit under the carpet and talk about the other policy areas where they’re more in agreement. The hope, presumably, is that the Tories make a complete pigs breakfast of the whole thing, at which point Labour can campaign in the next general election about how much better it would’ve gone if they’d be in charge! (In the, granted unlikely, event that Brexit sort of works then Labour can campaign in the next general election on the basis of continuing to ignore it and talking about other things.)

    55. Welsh Sion says:

      It gets better (or worse – depending on your point of view).

      You’ll have noticed how the “Welsh” Labour Government have demonstrated their hypocrisy with regard to tuition fees and their self-delusion they are “delivering the best deal in the UK for [Welsh] students.”

      The reality that they are going to raise fees is actually farmed out to the Education Secretary, Kirsty no-relation, the sole Lib Dem in our National Assembly. So she does the dirty work for Carwyn and his mates.

      Aye, right.

      Yours in unity with Scotland.

    56. sensibledave says:

      galamcennalath 12:06 pm

      You wrote: Aye, a section of UK (mainly English) society do love a good fascist alt right party.

      … Do you have a citation that you would like to share to back up that outrageous assertion? Or is that just your normal made up B******s.

      You need to think about the irony of your stance!

      Your whole tone of writing is based around an arguable, totally accepted as “normal”, concept that you, a Nationalist in Scotland, are superior to everyone else, elsewhere in the UK.

      That strikes me as a “master race” type position you are taking there.

    57. Dan Huil says:

      Obviously some British nationalist had run out to the nearest Pound Shop and bought one of them flag-in-a-bag jobs. More creases than Sarwar’s tax return. Probably won’t be seen again ’til next year’s so-called Scots night. The flag that is.

    58. Robert Kerr says:

      I note that the fragrant Laura of the BBC has “Burly Men” assigned for her protection at the Labour Conference,

      Google “bodyguards for laura kuenssberg” and enjoy.

      Surely not the same SNP “Burly Men” as complained about by Scot Tories?

    59. Dan Huil says:

      The internet pictures of the AfD balcony celebrations bore an uncanny resemblance to similar blue and red tory celebrations: arrogant and ignorant.

    60. Robert Peffers says:

      Well oiled machine it may well be, Rev Stu, but I’m betting it won’t be nearly so, “well oiled”, as the collective delegates were.

    61. Ian says:

      Labour as the UK government in 1979 lost a vote of no confidence and then lost the subsequent forced general election. The last time that had happened was in 1924 when a nine month old Labour government also suffered a vote of no confidence and then also lost the following election.

      Nowadays Labour have clearly given up on the government bit and just stick with the no confidence bit. Why not, it’s what they do best.

    62. Dr Jim says:

      Philip Hammond has just said on TV that the UK Government wants to extract every last drop of oil and gas from the North sea that is commercially viable

      I’ll say no more!

    63. David McDowell says:

      “[Rowley] had only been given ‘perhaps 10, 15 minutes’ notice of [Dugdale’s] resignation last month.”

      To be fair, Kezia only found out she was history ten minutes before she told Rowley!

      “Dugdale’s announcement came only two days after Corbyn finished a high-profile tour of 18 Scottish constituencies” – Grauniad, Tuesday, 29 August 2017

    64. Roger Hyam says:

      You would think they could get a ceilidh band together but on a real living wage of £8.45 an hour x 4 people x 2 hours it would probably be too much.

    65. Did you see this tweet by a Polish journalist trying to get into Labour’s conference?

      'The reason we asked you to go thru extra security checks is you are a Polish national'. Will get used to this, eventually, I guess? #Lab17— Jakub Krupa (@JakubKrupa) September 24, 2017

    66. Andy-B says:

      I really hope Sarwar wins the Labour branch office managers job, we know what to expect from him. His weak and convoluted approach will suit the indy cause perfectly.

      However the duplicitous Corbyn, will need to exposed for what he really is when it comes to Scotland, if we’re to convert the soft no voters to the indy cause.

    67. Lochside says:

      What we are witnessing is ‘strictly British coup’…with the media and the ‘opposition’ ( ha, ha) parties colluding in the steady but silent takeover of the already shaky democratic institutions and powers of the (F) UK.

      The complete lack of challenge by any of the above on any of the grotesque deliberate mismanagement of the Brexit ‘talks’; the relegation of parliamentary control at Westminster by what will be effectively direct rule via archaic and arcane ‘laws’ written by the middle-ages English mass murderer and despot; the suppression of Scotland’s sovereign identity with both de facto and de jure attempts to incorporate us into a Greater England.

      The final proof is the collusion of media silence over the ‘elefante’ in the international room…the Catalonian crackdown being imposed by Castilian fascist centralising Spain. Maybot, Boris the Clown, Slimy Green, Davies the joker and our very ain Colonel Blimp/Gadafferheid are all watching those developments keenly to see how far they dare go with suppressing us in the very near future.

      The sooner our leaders begin to challenge the ‘red line’ of our nation’s vote in Brexit and of our right as a sovereign nation never to be dictated to and stripped of our executive powers, no matter how puny, the better. The news blackout on everything that is happening is the fuel that accelerates idiocy and stupidity amongst the unengaged residual soft ‘NOs’ and the ‘could be persuaded’. The BBC should not be unchallenged over their ongong promotion of fascism throughout Europe. The Scottish Government has to take on that challenge….and soon!

    68. Nana says:


      Read the full statement from John Swinney following latest Brexit talks with cabinet office uk here

    69. Robert Graham says:

      Dr Jim – Aye better to get shot of the bloody stuff as its costing us money in tax breaks to the benevolent Oil corporations , i wonder if any other country has the same problem or is it a home grown , Tory policy .

    70. David McDowell says:

      Lochside @ 2:17pm
      “[the Britnats] are all watching developments [in Catalonia] keenly to see how far they dare go with suppressing us in the very near future.”

      Here’s hoping our side are also watching keenly to see how the Catalans are outsmarting their suppressors!

    71. george wood says:

      Ah well, Sensible Dave must have been first out of the hat from the Unionist Troll/SNP Bashing club that infest this site with their anti-Indy presence.
      They can’t have a thread going without trying to derail it.

    72. galamcennalath says:

      Brexit is a poisoned chalice. There is no good Brexit, only varying degrees of bad. UKIP and the Tories caused this mess, but everyone else and every other political party, also has to respond to the shite storm which is not of their making. That does not excuse Labour from avoiding it!

      From the Independent…

      ” Brexit: There is ‘zero chance’ leaving EU will make Britons better off, Nobel laureate economist Paul Krugman says “

      Very funny. You don’t need to be a ‘Nobel laureate economist’ to know that!

      The primary motivation is rampant blood and soil English Nationalism. That said, there will be some elites believing they can make money out of it, at everyone else’s expense of course. [text only]

    73. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      So Labour have finally woken up to the outrageous piece of effectively future-proofed mismanagement they ever perpetrated upon all of us (aka “the many”) in the form of PFI.

      Back when they were foisting it on local authorities and the NHS all over Scotland, regardless of consequences, even I could have told them (for free) that it was a big mistake – and I did!

      If an ordinary person like me could see it so very clearly, you have to wonder why no-one in the People’s Party somehow could. Even when being told by actual experts like Prof. Allyson Pollock. Instead she was trashed on TV (BBC, wouldn’t you know) by whichever Labour numpty was representing their “Executive” at the time.

      But now it’s all right. El Gordo will be along any minute now to apologise humbly for the mistake.

      … err… ehm…?

    74. HandandShrimp says:

      I think we are beginning to see quite an authoritarian Labour emerging under Corbyn. No idea where all this is going to go but it isn’t overly attractive. The bodyguard thing for Kuenssberg has rings of the supposed need for bodyguards for Robinson. I recall Labour making a meal of that and now the show is on the other foot.

      Baxters and Labour’s bare faced cheek over equal pay is worrying regards a Labour Government. They are unbelievably self righteous and vocal in opposition and absolutely horrible in power. The incredibly long running Glasgow equal pay debacle is entirely Labour’s doing and the moment they lose power they expect someone to instantly clean up their incompetence and bad faith. What a shower of bastards, liars and losers.

    75. iain mhor says:


      It’s O/T but beginnining to irk me a bit, not least as I can never work out the relevance here.

      I’ve noticed you’ve posted a few times about depression & anti-inflammatories. What you may be referring to is a report based on very specific cases. Extremely specialized anti-inflammatory drugs on a very small subset of patients with particular symptoms.

      Any old anti-inflammatory drug is not a panacea for any depressive symptoms. The Telegraph story which kicked all this off didn’t even consult the report’s primary author. No medical body involved in these studies suggested such a thing.
      It would be great to pop a magic pill and presto depression-be-gone, along with all the causes, but it doesn’t work like that unfortunately.

      A greater effect would be eradicating the despair and poverty in society but I doubt that’s happening any time soon.

    76. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      me @ 14:37,

      …not merely “outrageous” but “most outrageous”…

    77. Dr Jim says:

      Only the Labour party tells the truth unless it’s a mistake or a policy change that wasn’t made clear but will be debated at a later date and resolved in the normal way though still may be subject to change because of a misinterpretation of the rules at that time even though a change of rules may always be possible in the parties interests of democracy and transparency and we’ve always maintained that position and will defend it strenuously that’s why we have a positive flexible case to offer the electorate

      I can’t be any clearer than that

    78. Macart says:


      Exactly as expected. 🙂

    79. galamcennalath says:

      Nana says:

      Read the full statement from John Swinney following latest Brexit talks with cabinet office uk

      Approximately tough talk. The possibility of further Tory madness makes me angry!

      ” UK Ministers should be in no doubt – to override a vote of the Scottish Parliament and impose the EU Withdrawal Bill on Scotland would be an extraordinary and unprecedented step to take. The current proposals are a direct threat to the devolution settlement .”

      – ignoring Scotland’s will to stay in the EU
      – making false promises of DevoMax to win IndyRef1
      – potentially, beginning to undo the devolution settlement

      If they do impose their Bill on Scotland, then I think it’s time to call IndyRef2. Then let us foot soldiers get out there and win it!

    80. galamcennalath says:


      Approximately should be Appropriately.

      IPads are great, but the word modification can be a pain !

    81. Capella says:

      @ Nana – Good statement from John Swinney. Clear and to the point. Now to pop over to the BBC site and see if they are reporting or spinning.

    82. Orri says:

      Transparency and (Scottish) Labour. How often does that happen?

    83. Ken500 says:

      Eradicating poverty and depression could happen some time soon. If there was a will. There is a way. The unionists Party would rather abuse it. Anti depression drugs can contribute to further exaggerated problems. In some addictive circumstances. People can get addicted to them and this can cause further consumption of already addictive substances and circumstances.

      E.g. Alcohol is a depressant. People get depressed and then can get prescribed anti depressant drugs. They can die because of the combination. Some doctors do not prescribe methodone because all drug deaths at that time were related to people taking methodone and then taking other substances. Some doctors did. Even with the Information. People have died because of that. A doctor told an alcoholic not to go into rehab treatment. At a top establishment. Not to seek rehab treatment – ‘because it was religious’. Total nonsense. Proscribed Prozac for depression. The person continued to take Prozac and drink. The person died. Early death. An other person was given anti depressant after a break up. They continued to drink. Hang themself. Early death. The combination of drugs and drink killed them. Drinks in the wits out.

    84. Alex Clark says:


      Very unlike you to reach such a state of anger that you express that anger with a sweary word. Totally understandable as I could let off a few myself after blindly supporting Labour for many years.

      My main regret is that I never saw the light soon enough. Labour are totally useless in opposition, refusing to discuss Brexit is just unbelievable. Desperation for power by hiding any disagreement within the party is…

      Words fail me to be honest, one thing we can be sure of is that if they are this deceitful in opposition they would be more so if in government.

      Watching that Baxter clip about equal pay has my hackles rising. Absolute disgusting hypocrisy from Slab. They make me sick.

    85. Ken500 says:

      Brexit will not happen, it is impossible. The Tories will get voted out before it happens. It is the usual pantomime to cover up the appalling economic record and the continuing tax evasion.

    86. stewartb says:

      Just like to take an opportunity while some have been making reference here to flags to express a personal ‘prejudice’. In addition to using Saltires of a reasonable quality material – not the cheapest nylon – and without unsightly creases, as in the example used at Labour’s Scottish party (photo above), I really wish we could all agree on the colour of our national flag.

      I’d prefer all to use the lighter blue background (akin to the blue of the sky on a bright, clear day) – or Pantone 300, as already recommended by a number of organisations in Scotland – and ditch the use of the dark blue that comes from the background of the ‘butcher’s apron’.

      Is consistency too much to ask? Do any other countries end up using such diversity of colours in their national flag?

    87. Ken500 says:

      The people who died were not in poverty and had skills. They were kind, lovely, generous people. With addiction problems which were not dealt with appropriately.

    88. sensibledave says:

      george wood 2:29 pm
      You Wrote: Ah well, Sensible Dave must have been first out of the hat from the Unionist Troll/SNP Bashing club that infest this site with their anti-Indy presence. They can’t have a thread going without trying to derail it.

      …. wrong on so many levels Mr Wood

      1. A am not a “Unionist” – I am a democrat. I have never voted for, or against Independence for Scotland. The only people that have ever had a vote on Independence in Scotland is the SCottish electorate. They voted agianst it – not me.
      2. I didn’t bash the SNP – I pointed out your very specific nonsense.
      3. If by “derailing a thread” you mean highlighting when one nut job is using made up numbers to “prove” a stupid straw man argument of his own creation – then I suppose I am guilty as charged!

    89. heedtracker says:

      It would be great to pop a magic pill and presto depression-be-gone, along with all the causes, but it doesn’t work like that unfortunately.

      Prozac’s highly effective. So much so, its created a mourning for lost years of depression.

    90. Robert Louis says:

      What an utter bunch of lying duplicitous t***s British Labour are (including their Scottish branch office). To stand up and bemoan equal pay, when they have stymied such things in Glasgow where they ran the council for DECADES, or to sing their own praises about tuition fees in Wales, when it is LABOUR who have just INCREASED them there.

      Have they no shame. They are an utter disgrace. Zero morality. Zero integrity. Each and every one a big fat manipulative liar.

      What an utter shower. Why would any self respecting Scot ever want to vote Labour again. They are a joke of truly epic proportions. They just can’t seem to stop lying, over and over and over again. Almost everything they say is a lie.

      Of course the propagandist BBC shortbread at pathetic quay Glasgow (next door to MI5 (Scotland branch office)) will completely fail to notice any of this.

      Honestly in 2014 Labour were bad, but they have just become worse, and seem to be allowed to tell lie after lie after lie, by a media unwilling to call them out on it.

    91. Proud Cybernat says:

      So, ScotGov won’t give consent to Brexit Bill as it currently stands and won’t do so until the Devolution Settlement is protected.

      Protected how exactly?

      Does Mundell offer us a Vow to ensure Devo is safe? A Vow that will ‘usually’ be honoured?

      Does it say “kiss me quick” on my forehead?

      No. As soon as the ScotGov blocks this Brexit bollox and WM over-rides Holyrood THAT is when IndyRef2 is called.


    92. heedtracker says:

      sensibledave says:
      25 September, 2017 at 1:41 pm
      galamcennalath 12:06 pm

      You wrote: Aye, a section of UK (mainly English) society do love a good fascist alt right party.

      … Do you have a citation that you would like to share to back up that outrageous assertion? Or is that just your normal made up B******s.

      UKIPers and Farage, sensibled.

      Sieg Heil Nigel, sensibledave. Its not by chance.

    93. Brian Powell says:

      Labour and Brexit. They went along with the trigger, they went along with the Tory Brexiters, then when they thought there was a change in the voting population made a few noises about the single market, but essentially it is the same.

      Corbyn’s British jobs for Brit workers is opposite of freedom of movement. After all this time they are as short on detail as the Tories.

    94. CameronB Brodie says:

      IMHO, the problem with British Labour, is the profound schism in ideology within the party and subsequent identity crises and loss of focus. Thatcherite-lite Blairites fighting with ‘old-Labour’ Marxists doesn’t offer much prospect of unity. I suppose their is hope though for British Labour to unite, as both wings have apparently identified English nationalism as a suitable vehicle with to reach power. Which is ironic really, as the early Fabians saw encouraging scocialism as a means of promoting British nationalism. Real working-class blood-and-soil nationalism, that was. Might still be, frankly.

    95. heedtracker says:

      Achtung Nigel. We have ways of making a UK nazi, sensibledave. Its not funny is it though.

    96. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      sensibledave @ 15:45,

      Of course you are a democrat, I wouldn’t have expected anything else. I’m just surprised that you don’t attend to the many manifest deficiencies of democracy as practiced where you live. It’s not that they couldn’t do with as much corrective attention as the crumbling old building that houses their decrepit practices.

      Instead you seem to labour under the odd notion that you are in some kind of position to lecture us as to how we should pursue our own future… =sigh=

    97. heedtracker says:

      Neo fascist Farage was on the same podium as the grand daughter of Adolf Hitler’s finance minister, Beatrix von Storch, sensibledave. Their party, Alternative für Deutschland, did very well last night but apparently Bavaria is very Conservative, a lot like the south east of England, sans the nazi background.

    98. AAD says:

      The flag SLab is standing behind is an indication of the value they put on their Scottish credentials, i.e hastily donned for the occasion. I was posted at a Polling Place recently and had what I can only describe as a row with the Labour activist there. We ran through the recent actions of SLab MPs and supporters culminating in the old SLAbber (I can say it: I’m an old SNPer) defending the invasion of George Square on 19th September by Fascist thugs.

      Scottish Labour have become supporters of austerity and fascism. What can you say?

    99. HandandShrimp says:

      Hi Alex

      I can cope happily with people arguing an alternative point of view but such rank dishonesty would rot your socks. It isn’t politics it is just base desperation of power for power’s sake.

    100. Tam the Bam. says:


      Barnier tells tory Brexit team (again) go away and come back with some concrete proposals.Well Tez…your ‘unblock the log-jam’ speech would seem to have worked a treat.


    101. Abulhaq says:

      Labour in Scotland will become ‘Scottish Labour’ when someone sets the trend and kicks that nasty Unionist habit. Come on Anas, man up!

    102. galamcennalath says:

      outrageous assertion

      I leave the Mail, Telegraph, Express, Sky, and BBC to provide the outrageous assertions.

    103. sensibledave says:

      I have no doubt that there are people who voted for UKIP that have views that the rest of us would feel very uncomfortable with. Equally I have no doubt that some people voted UKIP in order to give their more favoured party (Tory, Labour or LIb dem) a kicking on the EU issue.

      … that does not make them nazis. The sweeping stereotyping of anyone that votes to the right of your favoured political stance is, frankly, pathetic – and only demonstrates a complete lack of knowledge about what the Nazis were all about. The first thing about the Nazis is that they were not that “into” democracy and refusing to accept the “will of the people” – whilst promoting their own brand of politics based upon scaremongering stereotyping of ordinary folk that wouldn’t hurt a fly.

      Ring any bells?

    104. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi stewartb at 3:32 pm.

      You typed,
      “I really wish we could all agree on the colour of our national flag.”

      Here’s a quote from the link below:
      19th February 2003
      It’s official: Pantone 300 is saltire blue MSPs rule on colour of St Andrew’s flag background

      MSPs yesterday nailed their colours to the mast by specifying the precise colour of the saltire flag.

      The white diagonal cross of St Andrew should be set against an azure background – and not just any old azure, but Pantone 300 in the international colour code.

      The recommendation came after a short debate yesterday on a subject which has been shuttling between Holyrood committees, the Scottish Executive and other official bodies for nearly three years.

      The decision, which still has to be confirmed by Jim Wallace, the justice minister, would be a personal triumph for George Reid, a retired accountant and serial petitioner of the Scottish Parliament.

      From the earliest days of the parliament, Mr Reid has pushed for an official colour to be laid down for the saltire – not to ban flags of other hues, but to give guidance for those who wanted to know the correct shade.

      After several knock-backs, he won the unanimous ap-proval of the parliament’s education, culture and sport committee yesterday for the blue in the saltire to be recommended as Pantone 300.

      Apparently this was simpler than the shade already laid down by the Royal Navy, which opted for the rival hue, Pantone 549C8771B – although the MSPs in making their recommendation stressed their view was purely advisory and not binding.

      ”We should not try to restrict the flags that are flown at football or rugby matches, but there is a suggested colour, Pantone 300, and we should accept that is the correct colour,” said Karen Gillon, committee convener and Labour MSP for Clydesdale.

      Also, this, from the link following,
      In 2003, a committee of the Scottish Parliament met to examine a petition that the Scottish Government adopt the Pantone 300 colour as a standard. (Note that this blue is of a lighter shade than the Pantone 280 of the Union Flag).

      Having taken advice from a number of sources including the office of the Lord Lyon King of Arms, the committee recommended that the optimum shade of blue for the Saltire should be Pantone 300 (that is, 0, 101, 189 in the RGB color model, or #0065BD as hexadecimal web colors).

      Recent versions of the Saltire have therefore largely converged on this official recommendation, though dark blue has continued in use.

    105. heedtracker says:

      Ring any bells?

      Hopeless stuff sensibledave. Why was Farage over in Germany giving to speeches to 21st century nazis for example?

      All you can do is waffle.

      Why have the BBC made Farage a household name and injected UKIP directly in to main stream UKOK politics?

      All you can do is waffle.

      Problem for British neo fascists are numerous but pretending your not, is also one of the big ones sensibledave.

      Try listening to the neo fascism support across Europe given by the BBC World Service neo fascist creep out sometime.

      BBC World Service is online, so tune in on the hour to those reprobates give all kinds of EU fascism a giant soap box.

    106. Paula Rose says:

      I see that it is going to be very straightforward to fold that flag up and put it back in its box.

    107. Dr Jim says:

      Vile separatist extremist left wing Nats accused of name calling by right wing activists who don’t like anybody but their own kind demand the scum stop calling them names

      Sounds fair……in Nazi land!

    108. sensibledave says:

      heedtracker 4:35 pm

      You wrote: “Hopeless stuff sensibledave. Why was Farage over in Germany giving to speeches to 21st century nazis for example?”

      Why do you believe I am responsible for explaining Nigel Farage – or his politics or his motives? I have never voted for him.

      Do you not not see Heedy? Your logic appears to be … he is not a member of the SNP … therefore he, and everyone else in the UK (or those that voted to leave the EU) including me, are Nazis.

      EVen in your warped and twisted little brain, do you not have moments of lucidity where you at least question some of the B******S and insults you write?

      On second thoughts, I have known you long enough to to know the answer to that.

    109. CameronB Brodie says:

      Robert J. Sutherland
      Dave doesn’t appear to be a moderate patriot Robert, as he is happy to interfere in the democracy of other nations (Dave is English and he lives in England). I’m, getting a picture of Dave and it isn’t particularly complimentary. Let’s put midly, he appears to be an authoritarian, ‘One Nation’ zealot who’s beliefs are based on ideology not empirical fact. Otherwise, why would he spend so much time and energy on WOS, pissing against the wind.

      His normative bias is profound and he very obviously does not respect the principle of universal human rights, ergo he’s a w….

    110. Robert Peffers says:

      @Capella says: 25 September, 2017 at 11:26 am:

      “Wonder if the Basques know that parent country Iberdrola is so staunchly Unionist.”

      I don’t know about the Basques, Capella, but I imagine the reason Westminster is going for new nuclear power stations when the most obvious way to go, (in a strictly United Kingdom context), would be for, the now proven to be cheaper per kilowatt, Scottish renewables.

      Instead Westminster knows Scottish independence is inevitable so whack away the renewables subsidies and go for nuclear.

      After all when Scotland ends the union the Kingdom of England knows it will need to pay full whack for each unit of power from Scotland. Power they now not only charge more for adding to the grid but subsidise the southern English generators.

      They see what’s in store all right – they just will not admit it even to themselves. If you look carefully at Westminster’s decisions you can usually see their thinking behind it.

    111. Dorothy Devine says:

      Paula Rose , fold it and get their money back as Scotland , Scots and being Scottish is obviously an embarrassment to them.

    112. jfngw says:

      Labour and the Tories are so confident now that they feel they can spout any old lie and the majority of Scots will just take it. I’m still trying to fathom out why indy support isn’t around 70%, perhaps I think the Scots have more bottle than they actually have.

      Will Scots grab the opportunity to have some self respect, or will they disappear to become merely the subject of US written historical fiction.

      The choice may soon be to either become a proper independent country or become absorbed as a region of the UK with the removal of all Scots law. The Supreme Court was the first step, after all WM has now the power to enact changes without parliamentary scrutiny, the anscluss is coming they believe.

    113. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      heedy, leave it, please. He’s just setting out to provoke. Taking up the slack again now that CA has failed. You should know by now that he’s not in the least interested in offering a genuine discussion, just empty filler. Ignore accordingly.

    114. One_Scot says:

      Clearly a shift change over.

    115. galamcennalath says:

      jfngw says:

      the anschluss is coming

      Indeed. A permanent solution will be found to absorb Scotland into Greater England, Or, so the Tories think. I hold out hope that the democratic process will triumph instead.

      Their current antics of Henry the Whatever powers amounts to the 1933 Ermächtigungsgesetz, or Enabling Act.

      And diligent folks on here have put effort into finding a valid source for the plan attributed to Reinhard Heydrich for Czechoslovakia. The parallels with that and what we see around us are uncanny.

      History is repeating itself and I want Scotland to have no part in it.

      Far right politics can be beguilingly simplistic and thus attractive. How else can ordinary folks be encouraged to back things which, when you look at the small print, aren’t in their interests? What people think they are signing up for is certainly not what they get.

    116. Robert Peffers says:

      @sensibledave says: 25 September, 2017 at 1:41 pm:

      ” … Do you have a citation that you would like to share to back up that outrageous assertion? Or is that just your normal made up B******s. “

      Oh! My sore sides – Bloody hilarious!

    117. `Voting has ended in historic Kurdistan independence referendum`,

      good luck to them and hope they are not frightened cowards
      and vote for their countries Independence.

    118. Robert Graham says:

      Just another day kneeling the jocks in the goolies Presented by the BBC in Scotland, its the little things they do every day , little things at first glance seem trivial when viewed In isolation,
      On their website they have, the UK will have to drastically up its power production, it then goes on to say Britain will fall short of its energy requirements unless capacity is increased by 25% , the only reference to Scotland is because the recommendation comes from Scottish power , not a bleedn word about Scottish Power being charged to access the grid, conversely English producers are paid to access the same grid all be it a different point of access.
      All the pertinent information is missing re the excess Scotland produces, and nothing about the impediments we face due to H M government changing the goal posts when we just happen to start making headway, much like carbon capture, ready to proceed, plug pulled, Wind farm subsidies cut and a whole industry cut adrift, just coincidence ? . Aye Right.
      We mustn’t be allowed to progress, we must never be seen as being competent, we must always be lectured that we are nothing without the broad shoulders of the Union,
      My Answer as usual F/ off , heard it all before, half of Scots ain’t bleedn listening, so piss off .

    119. Legerwood says:

      Robert Graham @ 5.38 pm

      When this wonderful new single UK market comes into being with uniform regulations across the land does that mean that connection charges to the grid will be the same throughout the UK?

      Just a thought. Oh, here is the nice lady with my pills.

    120. galamcennalath says:

      ” Hopes that Theresa May’s Florence speech would break the deadlock in EU talks were dashed in Brussels on Monday after the EU’s chief negotiator said there could be no discussion of a transitional period until other issues were dealt with first. 

      The UK and EU negotiating teams are now more at loggerheads than ever, with Michel Barnier explicitly ruling out transition deal talks until the divorce bill, citizens’ rights, and Northern Ireland are dealt with. “

      In some dark corner, a group of hard Brexiteers are probably rubbing their hands and saying, “we love it when a plan comes together”. [text only]

    121. Legerwood says:

      Paula Rose says:
      25 September, 2017 at 4:50 pm
      “”I see that it is going to be very straightforward to fold that flag up and put it back in its box.””

      You have a touching faith in the abilities of Labour in Scotland. I think that just may be beyond them even with the creases to guide them.

    122. HandandShrimp says:

      Nice to see that Labour have lost none of their injured pride at losing Scotland 10 years and still have the same sense of entitlement that has proved so unattractive over the last few years.

      Nothing changes.

    123. Tam the Bam. says:

      Robert Graham @5-38pm

      I know Robert…Aunties antics irritate the hell out of me also.
      Inform Scotland ran a ‘Misreporting Scotland’campaign re the BBC last year and yesterday they commenced a crowdfunder for a new campaign.You can find details on

    124. Robert Graham says:

      Ledgerwood ha ha very good, just waiting on mine as well, and once the nice people oil the zip on the back of me nut , I am ready to go , full steam ahead chaps , go on pile it in .

    125. Alex Clark says:

      Labour’s Annual Conference takes place every Autumn and is one of the largest and most high profile political events in Europe.

      Our delegates and visitors take part in debates to shape Labour’s vision for Britain.

      Labour’s vision for Britain excludes any vote on Brexit and the disastrous effect it will have on the ordinary citizens of Britain.

      Let’s have a conference, only don’t discuss policies that could undermine our bid to be elected, whatever you do don’t mention Brexit. We go with the flow on that one, half our supporters want to remain IN and the other half OUT so we’ll just pretend that Brexit doesn’t exist and no one really cares what we think anyway.

      We can talk for the rest of the week about squirrels, the British public like squirrels especially the Red squirrel who like us are native to Scotland.

      Unfortunately for Labour the Red squirrel is in danger of being wiped out by the rise of the Grey squirrel. The Greys leading the Labour party nationally and in Scotland are on the rise, if we are to protect the indigenous squirrel then a cull of the Greys is the only option.

      Never vote for a Labour Grey, then humanely you will reduce their numbers and prevent them creating havoc with the indigenous population.

      Let’s rid ourselves of Grey Labour politicians.

    126. heedtracker says:

      EVen in your warped and twisted little brain, do you not have moments of lucidity where you at least question some of the B******S and insults you write?

      Well I am the btl WoS dilettante prick sensibledave.

      But just more of your waffle sensible, to very straight forward answers to questions what you asked. How very you.

      Bring back that clown Colin A, sensibledave. You two have so much in UKOK common, its spooky:D

    127. Artyhetty says:

      Heedtracker, keep doing what you are doing.I always enjoy your comments, getting to the nub of stuff. The britnats obviously hate it! Great.

    128. bjsalba says:

      Everybody knows what Labour is doing (or Not doing)

      A Brighton, le congrès travailliste évite le Brexit, le sujet qui fâche

      In Brighton, the Labor Congress avoids the Brexit, the subject that annoys

      Jeremy Corbyn, Eurosceptic leader of Labour, does not want to break the positive dynamics of his party by addressing the European issue, which divides Labour.


      Sorry about the crappy translation but it is the best googletranslate can do. I’m sure you will get the gist.

    129. CameronB Brodie says:

      In order for you to assist Scotland’s disadvantaged to escape poverty, you will need to firstly acknowledge Scotland is a nation separate of England. Next, you need to acknowledge the profound democratic deficit Scotland suffers due to Yoonion with England. It would also help if you acknowledged that Yoonion with England prevents Scots from accessing their inalienable human “Right to Development”. Ultimately, you will need to accept the conclusion that British nationalist ideology can not be justified ethically. This might then enable BLiS___d to resembling a party of relevance to Scotland, though as you lack autonomy from HQ in London, I have little hope for you.

      You’re not a party of the people, you are stooges of an expansionist form of English nationalism that is aligned with the New Right! Not a good look, frankly.

      working for social justice goes better when you understand class cultures

    130. Artyhetty says:

      That UKOK single market eh.

      Indeed, so we might see power companies operating in Scotland being paid £millions to connect to the ‘national’ grid, like they are in London, rather than being charged £millions to actually connect us.

      Does it mean that the police force in Scotland, and the fire service won’t be forced to pay VAT to the London UKok treasury, like they are now, even though nowhere else in UKOK are charged a penny in VAT.

      I reckon pigs might just fly first.

    131. bjsalba says:

      O/T a bit.

      Anyone who was depressed with the glee that the BBC showed at the rise of the AfD in Germany should look at this

      Watch the video as she announces at the day after Election Press Conference that she will not be part of AfD party in the German Parliament and then proceeds to walk out!

    132. Legerwood says:

      Artyhetty @ 7.03 pm

      Of course pigs will fly first – but they will be good wee standard, uniform piggies if they know what is good for them .

    133. heedtracker says:

      C4 teatime news at Lab conference, really is like watching a foreign country now, completely void of Scotland anything at all, its all England.

    134. TheWasp says:

      Stewartb @ 3.32

      Argentinian style sky blue for me, especially as anything “Argie” winds up our near neighbours

    135. Robert Graham says:

      As usual a bit o/t – Craig Murray is live on Independence live just now, saying what possibly a lot of people don’t want to hear , but it’s his view and open to comments on screen.
      So far right up Mr Alexanders street , oops . Worth a listen anyway .

    136. heedtracker says:

      bjsalba says:
      25 September, 2017 at 7:07 pm
      O/T a bit.

      Anyone who was depressed with the glee that the BBC showed at the rise of the AfD in Germany should look at this

      Well BBC r4 gimps are truly thrilled by AFD tonight! Their coverage on their 6pm vote tory news was ecstatic at the return of the nazis and the collapse of Merkel, those tory gimps explain. Merkel got a thrashing because she let in a million refugees into Germany and Germans do not like it one bit. No mention of where the million refugees have come from or why, from same beeb gimps.

      BBC neo fascism has gone mad with the thrill and excitement of nazism, basically.

    137. Clootie says:

      …did anyone else notice that Sanwar has a Cardiff tax centre. How does that work. I have had Newcastle and London in the past because of my companies but I thought everyone who lived in Scotland had a Scottish tax office.

    138. yesindyref2 says:

      AfD – what the BBC won’t tell you. In Jan of this year AfD were polling at 14% and 15% in some polls, in 2016 they were up and down as well. So it’s not just a last minute surge. Their vote has risen from single figure percentages in 2015 and before.,_2017

      UKIP actually reached the dizzy heights of 27.5% in the European Elections in 2014. Where are they now?

    139. Tam the Bam. says:

      O/T…CH4 NEWS

      Catalonia mentioned….less than 15 seconds but only channel to report on Catalonia today (so far as I know).

    140. Ken500 says:

      Scotland is surplus in fuel and energy. Exports over 25% (excluding Oil etc even more). It is nearer the sources. Yet still pays (10%) more because it is colder. Higher useage. A tax on the whole Scottish economy. While fuel and energy is exported from Scotland. The full remuneration does not come back to Scotland.

      Hinkley Point is a exorbitant project. Totally over priced for the 7% of energy it will produce. It will take years to build. Twice the price of other sources. E,g, Renewables etc. Westminster banned onshore wind turbines in England. Reduced the investment in solar, wave etc. All of these renewables are less than half the cost of nuclear. Westminster has been dumping nuclear waste from countries all over the world in Scotland.

      Turbines are just money trees printing money by comparison. Like hydro. Solar functions when people are up and about. Not at night when the energy is not required as much. Coal with CCS. Is plentiful. Electric cars are much cheaper to run.

    141. heedtracker says:

      UKIP actually reached the dizzy heights of 27.5% in the European Elections in 2014. Where are they now?

      Like all useful idiots, dispensed with no longer useful/required.

    142. Tam the Bam. says:

      …oh ..I almost forgot.

      Mayor of London is a prick.

    143. Kenny says:


      I live in London in a constituency with a thumping Labour majority. As we know from our own experience in places like the West of Scotland, before 2014, it is the worst possible place a person could live.

      MPs have been representing the same constituency for four decades… half of which Labour was in power… and they do NOTHING for their constituencies… because that is how they stay in power, as we know from Scotland, before we all woke up in 2014.

      If you vote Labour in a Labour-held constituency, you are voting to live forever in squalor, with run-down social services, no inner investment, no hope, poor local services… just like Jackie Bird revels in heading a parochial TV programme… so do Labour politicians love squalor… because this makes the masses vote Labour… and so on, ad infinitum…

      On the subject of parochial TV…. there is NOTHING on the BBC news website front page about the Kurdistan referendum!

      You have to go to the world news page of the BBC website… and it is squeezed in a tiny corner of the page between “Russia violates human rights in Crimea” and “British lesbian wins HK spousal visa case”. I suppose the BBC does not hide its priorities.

      On a week in which two new countries could be born.

      Events which could completely overturn the whole consequent history of the Middle East (which the BBC usually never shuts up about) and Europe.

    144. heedtracker says:

      Catalonia mentioned….less than 15 seconds but only channel to report on Catalonia today (so far as I know).

      If Spain breaks up, it really is going to be HILarious! watching the whole of the UK media burying it all/terrorise Scotland.

    145. yesindyref2 says:

      Comparisons with the Nazis almost always ignore its early history as The National Socialist German Workers’ Party. It inherited a Germany totally economically blitzed via the Treaty of Versailles, the reparations and inhibitions on the Rhineland, preventing industrial rebuilding if its economy, insisted on mainly by France but also the UK – with poor enforcement making it even worse in a lot of ways.

      When they came to power they were heroes to the people of Germany, built autobahns with rest stops for lorry drivers, the routes which exist to this day, ingored the reparations even more, reindustrialised the Rhineland, and completely turned Germany’s economy around. Peiple could eat. There were very early signs of what they became later, but with the economical miracle they brought people ignored the signs.

      Clearly the comparison is to UKIP in the UK, which while popular in England, had a very low share of the vote in Scotland apart from the 1 MEP elected by proportion in 2014. The comparison is to what “becane” the Nazis later on (always latent), and UKIP, with their attitudes to minorities.

      While everyone should watch out for a re-emergence, and hence looking at the SNP is a valid exercise, it falls down at the very first hurdle, and that’s the SNP attitude to minorities. The SNP in that respect welcome all minorities, and put human rights high on their agenda, in complete contrast to either UKIP or the Nazis.

    146. velofello says:

      @ Paula Rose: “… to fold that flag up and put it in it’s box”.Like it, Housewify observation, ( no offence intended), and perceptive of their hollowness.

      @ Ken500: I have no professional nor personal experience of depression, yet my layman’s understanding of the problems visited upon indigenous people when their way of life was disrupted – Inuits, Aboriginals,Native Americans, and we Scots and Irish- and then Playhouse depicted – as drunks by the callous humans amongst us, who disrupted their way of life for power and wealth.

      Regards Anas Salwar, I’d leave him alone. He isn’t some kind of playboy flaunting his wealth around. He is a family man,and doing what he believes is best for his family and his country. I think he’d find his values better expressed as an SNP member.I recall in one of the TV debates Nicola Sturgeon saying “Anas, I know you are a nice guy”.I’ll go with that.

    147. Legerwood says:

      Labour Party Conference

      John McDonnell earlier today says: ‘Labour Government would bring PFI contracts back in-house’

      Cue rapturous applause.

      This evening on CH4 news Keir Starmer when asked about this by Jon Snow says: ‘We are going to hold a review’. Repeats this when questioned about the apparent discrepency. Repeats Labour is going to have a review about PFI and bringing them in house.

      So what is Labour’s policy on this?

      Which do you think will get all the headlines Tomorrow?

      Is there any policy that Labour will hold to for more than a few hours?

    148. Still Positive says:

      Clootie @ 7.32

      The Civil Service (CS), government employees taxes are dealt with in Cardiff and have been since at least the 1960s.

      I have a CS Widow’s pension and the tax I pay on that is dealt with in Cardiff.

      I suppose all MPs and MSPs are considered government employees.

    149. heedtracker says:

      Regards Anas Salwar, I’d leave him alone. He isn’t some kind of playboy flaunting his wealth around. He is a family man,and doing what he believes is best for his family and his country.

      Anas is a very rich man, who got into politics because…

      We’ve all seen how and why very rich men get into politics, its never for altruistic stuff, ever.

      Anas is a red tory, conservative and all about saving this farce uk, and that’s it.

    150. Tam the Bam. says:


      Livestream now….isn’t now…its down.

      Craig Murray…a guy I LISTEN TO.

    151. Tam the Bam. says:

      Tam the Bam…8-04pm

      I hope lots of us contribute to Livestream…they do a fantastic job!

    152. artyhetty says:


      We saw something earlier about most of .cat not able to access web. Only history and a few other websites with .cat in them, can now put out anything re Catalonia. Terrible situation, and scary.

    153. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      I don’t mind the trolls particularly. They tend to prepare us for the infantile half-wittery with which our opposition seeks to deceive the more gullible and they let us sharpen up our responses. But anything over a paragraph or two gets a body swerve.

    154. Rock says:

      “We’re sure it’s a well-oiled machine.”

      Must be if more than 20% still vote for it in Scotland.

      But then the most stupid people on earth are in Scotland, in my humble opinion.

    155. heedtracker says:

      yesindyref2 says:
      25 September, 2017 at 7:51 pm
      Comparisons with the Nazis almost always ignore its early history as The National Socialist German Workers’ Party.

      We shouldn’t shy away from fascism though.

      Its the nazis that are still the overarching presence in Europe and world history but its important to keep in mind that the cancer of fascism was and is endemic across Europe, in the 30’s. Italy ofcourse, France, Holland, Spain etc were all fascist and its only been total war and EU democracy that’s brought fascism to where it is today.

      The questions we have to ask are why the BBC in particular gives contemporary fascism so much of the media power. Why exactly have the BBC made Farage a household name, why did they make UKIP so popular, why are they in Europe trying to boost up fascists like Le Pen, Geert Wilders in Holland, the far-right Freedom party in Austria, and now its the new nazis in Germany.

      Is it all merely to make the rolling UK Brexit catastrofuck look good for Westminster BBC propaganda style here, if the EU can be weakened by fascism?

      BBC r4 tory gimps even went massive with the euro price drop on Merkel’s disastrous and cataclysmic er, win.

    156. yesindyref2 says:

      Just a thought. Oh, here is the nice lady with my pills.

      Thanks for reminding me, haar haar.

    157. Iain mhor says:

      Prozac may be the poster drug for depression, but that’s said more by the pharmaceutical industry than the recipients.
      It’s great if you want to kill your c**k
      If that doesn’t make you feel worse I’m not sure what will!
      If you do somehow manage to get it together you can probably last all day, so much so that it’s widely used as a recreational drug for that very effect.
      Banging away continually to no effect and devoid of all feeling, physical or emotional. Sounds like a certain political party.
      Maybe they’re all on it 🙂

    158. Legerwood says:

      heedtracker @ 8.24 pm

      “”BBC r4 tory gimps even went massive with the euro price drop on Merkel’s disastrous and cataclysmic er, win.””

      What drop in the euro? It has been pretty static the last few days at 1.13 euros to the pound – at least on the exchange rate site that I use,

    159. yesindyref2 says:

      @Still Positive: “The Civil Service (CS), government employees taxes are dealt with in Cardiff and have been since at least the 1960s.

      Yet another hole in GERS, as Scotland is charged for the appropriate wages and credited with the revenue in taxes, but is not credited with the economic benefit of those jobs in Cardiff, the spending in the Welsh economy, and the further revenues generated and credited to Wales in GERW (run by Cardiff university).

    160. Valerie says:

      @ vellofello

      Sarwar SNP??? Whit?? You haven’t been paying attention, clearly.

      Sarwar puts out as much nasty venom on Twitter towards SNP, as he does in Holyrood or the compliant Press.

      However, tbf, the Press have exposed his family company not paying a Living wage, and not recognising Unions. His response? It’s not compulsory.

      THEN, all the stuff about the dividends he took, but said he didn’t, then, as above,,when confronted with that, making his children millionaires.

      Good luck to them, but the point is, he was caught out, kept digging, and still lectures from his high horse.

      He’s a Red Tory.

      Can you imagine any of the SNP caught doing that stuff?

    161. yesindyref2 says:

      @Dave McEwan Hill
      I think there’s a lot of people on the cusp, maybe even half the previous NOes who might get there on their own, but could harden against YES if mistreated.

    162. yesindyref2 says:

      Yes, the potential for fascism is always present, and needs to be watched out for.

    163. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      What a great day for Labour. They seem to have been helping themselves to their own medicine.

      After telling us here in Scotland all through the year to be quiet, stop worrying about indy and Brexit, sit down and just eat your cereal, a large number of them are now following their own advice.

      In a pathetic tribute to Jim Callaghan’s old example, their message is “crisis, what crisis?”

      Or could it be a somewhat surreal attempt to emulate Wily E Coyote? Having run right off the cliff, they are now trying to avoid falling by pretending not to notice…

    164. Colin Alexander says:

      @ Robert Graham

      I never thought I’d ever be saying this to you Robert, but thank you for your comment.

      I’m off to watch Craig Murray. I was going to read the Agenda for the SNP conference, seeing as the talk was about Labour’s conference and they don’t interest me, but like the indyref, it’s no announced yet.

      I was thrilled at the thought the Agenda would all be topics about Scottish sovereignty and independence.

      Hope I’m no in for a big disappointment when the Agenda is published.

    165. CameronB Brodie says:

      Of course, the Nazi’s early economic achievements did benefit from the utility of a plentiful supply of slave labour. Anyone considered undesirable, frankly.

    166. Fred says:

      @ Brian, in the good old days folk never had all these fancy dyes, what they had was vegetable dyes conjured up by an auld wife in an iron pot.

    167. heedtracker says:

      CameronB Brodie

      Hitler also never won an election. Sound familiar?


      “At the July 1932 Elections, the Nazis became the largest party in the Reichstag, yet without a majority.”

    168. Colin Alexander says:

      “No senior SNP member has argued the case for independence – not the case for a referendum – but the case for independence, in the last three years.”

      Says Craig Murray.

      He says he’s spoken at many YES meeting, never sees any SNP MPs at them arguing for independence.

      The SNP have adopted the strange strategy of “good governance within the UK”.

    169. heedtracker says:

      The SNP have adopted the strange strategy of “good governance within the UK”.

      Indeed, the ref1 choice, made by Scotland in 2014. But should something change…

      You know the rest Colin A, because you cut n pasted on here the SNP manifesto referendum2 pledge.

    170. Colin Alexander says:


      aye, it’s the Unionists that set the agenda for the SNP nowadays. It’s the SNP that should be setting the agenda to persuade a majority to support indy, but they don’t.

      That’s why I’m so cheesed off with the SNP.

      What would be the level of support now, if the SNP had spent the last three years campaigning for independence?

      Nobody can say for sure, but I’m sure many would agree it would have been higher, and now they are saying it’s c. 46% for independence.

    171. heedtracker says:

      Colin Alexander says:
      25 September, 2017 at 10:13 pm

      You answer youre own bollox Colin A.

      The SNP have adopted the strange strategy of “good governance within the UK”.

      Imagine a Scotland autonomous of our chums in the south.

      This is a good example of how one country fcuks another, then blames the fcuked country Colin A. Our imperial masters at the Graun are completely merciless right enough, but that’s how it works in the teamGB zone today. Tomorrow?

      Graun says its Scotland region is shite, shock. At least they’ve reported something Scots though. One a week,

      . Salmond championed North Sea oil exports to fund Scottish independence, while investing billions on new road projects, and Sturgeon plans to phase out air passenger duty to boost aviation.

    172. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Hey, this thread is all about the utter incompetence of BritLab, not the supposed “failure” of the SNP to please a few malcontents.

      Here we have an entire supposed opposition party of the UK engaged in a mass exercise of reality-denial, yet instead we keep getting somebody’s minor twits about the SNP?

      It’s stunningly obvious it’s not the SNP we need worry about. Get a grip here.

    173. Graf Midgehunter says:

      From Heedtracker/bjsalba:

      ” Merkel got a thrashing because she let in a million refugees into Germany and Germans do not like it one bit”
      Not quite true…

      When Merkel let them in, the war in Syria was getting far worse with IS gaining ground everywhere and the refugees were fleeing to where they thought safety might be. They were escaping a war-zone.

      The Germans seemed at first to have been surprised and a bit confused but I think they reacted very well and simply said, OK, we’re a big country with a bit of money tucked away so let’s get on with the job. Some will probably stay but most of them will want to return home when peace comes. Integration where it’s needed.

      Up til now, according to media reports, about a third have gotten jobs in the economy, some as skilled workers but also a large amount as apprentices. Germany is screaming out for workers at all levels – too many job vacancies because it’s been booming for years!

      There’s a certain sense of pride that they did what was needed.

      The mood has however IMO started to change to a more negative level.

      Some folk are saying, the first refugees who came from the Middle East were light-skinned, a bit Greek/Italien looking, a bit Turkish. Came over the “Balkan Route”. A lot of people but we’ll get through somehow.

      The pictures/reports on TV of refugees nowadays are of boats full of black coloured people from Central Africa. The “Libya Route”.
      Most people see them as economic refugees and this is where the mood has swung round to locking the door for more refugees of any sort.

      This was one of the main topics from the AfD – so the question is, “Where does Germany go from here?”

    174. bjsalba says:

      @Graf Midgehunter

      If, like me, you have been paying attention to the European press rather than the BBC propaganda, you will be aware that steps are being taken to stop the economic migrants at source. Macron has been involved.

      From what I have heard, AfD used a lot of Twitter with racial overtones just before the election, that rather smacks of US right wing style campaigning. Not something Europe wants to import.

    175. CameronB Brodie says:

      Nazi Germany did have numerous ‘Arab’ supporters and allies. They even had the support of the odd Zionist Jew. Go figure.

    176. CameronB Brodie says:

      Anyhoo, back to BLiS and their lack of autonomy from their London HQ.

      Measuring Inequality: Autonomy
      The degree of empowerment in decisions about one’s own life

      This section brings together a consideration of the theoretical basis for measuring autonomy with a literature review to complement pre-existing analysis and evidence. A systematic review of literature was conducted in order to adequately explore autonomy and related concepts within the fields of social policy, social psychology and economics (using primarily the International Bibliography of the Social Sciences alongside other mechanisms). As expected, this uncovered new sources of information and research which have been incorporated into the project. During this process, existing measures of autonomy were identified. These will be briefly discussed at the end of this Section (see Appendix 2 for a full list of these measures).

      Public policy and inequalities of choice and autonomy

      Guidance template for the development of autonomous practice for SAS doctors and dentists

    177. Graf Midgehunter says:

      @ bjsalba

      “If, like me, you have been paying attention to the European press rather than the BBC propaganda, you will be aware that steps are being taken to stop the economic migrants at source. Macron has been involved. ”

      I get the European+German press and TV every day in Frankfurt and yes you’re right steps are being taken but it’s not all that widely reported here whereas the opinions of the “man on the street” are valued more in the run up to an election.
      It’s one of the reasons why “Brexit” almost disappeared and instead the concerns of the eastern, ex-GDR, population came to the fore – AfD happy folks. Right wing, yes.
      That’s what I wrote about above.

      “US right wing style”

      IMO that’s not the way they do things here – they are conservative but not loony and twitter, Whatsapp etc are just modern ways of getting the message out.

      “Laptop and Lederhosen” they say here..!?


      I very seldom watch the Beeb world service cos it’s crap..!

    178. yesindyref2 says:

      “A frog he would a-wooing go,
      Heigh ho! says Rowley,
      A frog he would a-wooing go,
      Whether his mother would let him or no.
      With a rowley, powley*, gammon, and spinach,
      Heigh ho! says Anthony Rowley.”

      Sure beats the hell out of me.

    179. Breeks says:

      Robert Graham says:
      25 September, 2017 at 7:28 pm
      “As usual a bit o/t – Craig Murray is live on Independence live just now, saying what possibly a lot of people don’t want to hear , but it’s his view and open to comments on screen.
      So far right up Mr Alexanders street , oops . Worth a listen anyway …”

      Not saying that’s it, nor that Craig Murray is the Farage type, but if it’s not careful, the SNP is setting itself up to be “UKIPped” by an equivalent single issue populist movement which capitalises on growing frustrations which aren’t currently being heard.

      If handled badly, it could be a YES movement with a bad attitude, a lot less patience. And it could be very unwelcome divisive phenomenon. Depending on your perspective of course, it could equally be a very welcome dynamic phenomenon. Therein lies the danger.

      A loose cannon just like UKIP was, but nevertheless it could have the potential to force the SNP’s hand on the issue of a referendum and/or a challenge to constitutional sovereignty, – just like UKIP forced the Tories hand on a Brexit referendum.

      Take a friendly warning SNP…. Be alert to the possibility.

    180. stu mac says:

      @bjsalba says:
      25 September, 2017 at 6:51 pm

      Sorry about the crappy translation but it is the best googletranslate can do.


      It was fine: dinnae fâche yourself about it.

    181. sensibledave says:

      yesindyref2 7:51 pm

      While everyone should watch out for a re-emergence, and hence looking at the SNP is a valid exercise, it falls down at the very first hurdle, and that’s the SNP attitude to minorities. The SNP in that respect welcome all minorities, and put human rights high on their agenda, in complete contrast to either UKIP or the Nazis.

      A sensible response yesindyref2. The problem that some “characters here on WIngs have is, not so much the minorities – its the majorities. Heedy’s persistent characterisation of anyone who votes for any other party in the UK, other than the SNP, as Nazis, Britnats, Unionists, etc – irrespective of the fact that most voters in the UK can’t vote for the SNP.

      The constant disrespecting of millions of ordinary folk across the UK because a few hundred thousand Scots didn’t vote for Independence is just inane. The demonisation of these ordinary folk who go about their lives not wanting to do harm to anyone and just look after their kith and kin -as inferior beings when compared to an SNP voter demonstrates a lack of empathy and understanding because one is “twisted” by one’s own unfulfilled, political aspirations. Most people in the UK bear no ill will to Scottish Independence supporters. Unfortunately, the same cannot be said of many SNP supporters. And that is the difference.

    182. Can the devolved Scottish Government use the Scottish Claim of Rights to make itself a full Scottish Government?

    183. yesindyref2 says:

      Unfortunately, the same cannot be said of many SNP supporters.

      Some, a few, not many. I think the insults let down the YES movement, and the use even of the label “unionist” needs to be less, used only for activists. I talked to a lot of NO voters who were fiercely Scottish, don’t even think of calling them British, didn’t really like the Union, but were going to vote NO (no idea if they did in the end).

      The only label that would be appropriate at this stage is either “previous NO voters”, or even “currently intending NO voters”.

    184. yesindyref2 says:

      Thinking about it, the safest word is “voters”, voters who can change their minds. But not if they’re constantly insulted, it hardens their previous choice.

    185. Liz g says:

      Mr J R Geddes @ 9.23
      In Theory they could,but they would have to have the backing of “The People” to do so.
      Soooo…to get the backing of the people ye need a vote.
      Therefore the shortest route as things currently stand is to just ask the direct question.
      Hope that helps JR!

    Comment - please read this page for comment rules. HTML tags like <i> and <b> are permitted. Use paragraph breaks in long comments. DO NOT SIGN YOUR COMMENTS, either with a name or a slogan. If your comment does not appear immediately, DO NOT REPOST IT. Ignore these rules and I WILL KILL YOU WITH HAMMERS.

    ↑ Top