The cream puff
It seems the Daily Record has taken something of a sulk at our post of earlier today. This evening the paper’s editor Murray Foote issued this statement on its Facebook page in response to one of a number of readers who’d posted links to the story:
It’s a telling reaction.
We made no suggestion whatsoever that “the lack of an official document is in any way significant”. We wrote just 43 words of comment on a post which otherwise comprised nothing but the reproduction of two emails between the offices of Labour MPs Tom Clarke and Ed Miliband.
Those 43 words merely highlighted that “The Vow” was the creation of the Daily Record – something the paper has never made any attempt to deny, and in fact has repeatedly asserted in its pages – and that therefore the Record was responsible for it.
The accusation that we have “misdirected” anyone or “misrepresented” anything is offensive and demonstrably false. If the Record objects to the words “There is no official document, it was something that the Daily Record mocked up” or feels they give a misleading impression, it should raise that with the office of Ed Miliband – they wrote those words, not us. We didn’t take them out of context or isolate them in any way – we published the two emails in full and entirely unedited.
Furthermore, we note this passage:
“The SNP and Greens currently sit side by side with representatives of the three leaders in the Smith Commission actively negotiating new powers for Scotland – just like it said in The Vow.”
“The Vow” makes no reference to the SNP and Greens whatsoever. It is explicitly and solely a pledge of the three Unionist party leaders. It specifically says “extensive new powers for the Parliament will be delivered by the process and to the timetable agreed and announced by our three parties“. (Our emphasis.)
That “process” was outlined by the No campaign as involving “all UK parties” – which can only mean the three Unionist ones, as plainly the signatories to “The Vow” could not speak for the SNP or Greens. (The Scottish Greens don’t sit in the UK parliament anyway, being a separate party to the English and Welsh Greens.)
We would be most interested to see the correspondence trail by which the wording of “The Vow” was “negotiated and agreed”, and/or any discarded drafts. We’re very keen to know how much of that wording was the work of the Daily Record and how much – if any – came from the three party leaders or their proxies.
We call on the Daily Record to release it, in the interests of clarity and honesty. At the very least, we call on them to stop lying about us just because they’re embarrassed.
Haven’t read this yet, just trying to get a post at the top of the thread.
Why do I have to follow your twitter feed to know there is a new blog post?
“all UK parties” Shit does that mean UKIP can join the commission?
At the very least, we call on them to stop lying about us.
No chance. Sue them.
“Fact, the three party leaders negotiated and agreed the words used in The Vow” Ok so when and how? Did the three leaders do it by phone, a summit, skype? The greatest, most fundamental change in the UK constitution for maybe 200 hundred years went completely unreported until the fraud that is the Daily Record produced The Vow, my arse.
its the least they can do after all they helped the fear camp including the BBC by scaring people so I hope they feel the fear now x
It’s sad that Murray Foote feels the need to point out the bits of ‘fact’ that his rag prints
“Why do I have to follow your twitter feed to know there is a new blog post?”
I haven’t the faintest idea. Please raise such issues through the contact form, not by derailing comment threads.
Suppose that the *text* of the vow was agreed by the 3 parties, and the Daily Record “mocked up” the *presentation*.
In other words, the DR did a DTP job on text supplied.
Wouldn’t that be compatible with both the DR explanation, and the reply from Milband’s office?
“At the very least, we call on them to stop lying about us.”
Is The Record going to be funding your next holiday, Stuart? 🙂
“Wouldn’t that be compatible with both the DR explanation, and the reply from Milband’s office?”
Yes, of course it would. We’ve never said anything else.
We call on the Daily Record to release it, in the interests of clarity and honesty. At the very least, we call on them to stop lying about us.
Good luck with that, I wouldn’t believe the date on that rag.
“Fact. All three agreed to put their signatures to the vow.”
Obviously someone is holding this document that all three have signed?
I see that Goron Sinclair has suggested the same possibility as I proposed above: http://blog.thistleweb.co.uk/2014/10/28/using-semantics-to-break-the-vow/
In quote the last two paras in full:
I can certainly imagine a conference call between all four parties, where they hammer out the agreed text, and authorise the Daily Record to mock up a visual image of it, using Photoshopped signatures. The document would never have existed, but the agreement did, and does. The fact that the document never existed, meaning they never signed it, so therefore they’re not bound to it, even though they agreed is irrelevant.
Pay careful attention to the semantics used by all four parties about “the document” when the real question is “the agreement”. The document is simply a delivery mechanism for the agreement.
The sooner the Daily Record disappears from the scene the better for Scottish affairs. What an odious rag of a newspaper.
Yes, indeed.
As well as the process, we also need to know the paper trail that led to this Clause being inserted in the Parlaimentary Briefing paper, and whether it will need correcting.
It clearly states that on Tuesday 16 Sept, the leaders of the UK political parties issued a joint signed statement.
from the Parlaimentary Briefing Paper –
2.3 UK party leaders’ “vow”
On Tuesday 16 September the leaders of the UK political parties issued a joint signed statement of undertakings, which was published in the Daily Record, under the headline, “The Vow”. The statement included:etc …”
Where is that joint signed statement that the members of the UK Parliament have been briefed upon.
Or were they misled?
They must have been dying to say ‘a bugger from Bath’ 🙂
I think the most appropriate & erudite comment I could make on your post would have to be…telt!
You’re from Bath? Why has no one ever mentioned this before?
Trap set, walks in, trap sprung.
You have as much chance of the Daily Record to stop lying as a ducks fart has of surviving in a hurricane………
Clarity and honesty? From the Record? Lay off the mushrooms Rev!
They are clearly rattled. Getting the feeling they might now realise they are in too deep, and that they are on a road they cannot get off, even if they wanted to. Hopefully it’s the road to hell.
They don’t like it up ’em, do they?
This sentence bothers me, “The SNP and Greens currently sit side by side with representatives of the three leaders in the Smith Commission… “. Who are we then, followers? And this word here, “negotiating”. Negotiating with who? I thought they were all on the same side & had a plan.
I hope to God Labour voters are as repulsed by this double-speak as we are!
It looks like the Daily Record editor has put his big FOOTE in it, again.
The hole is getting deeper and deeper…every lie breeds another… and another.
The Daily Record is taking on the Wings readership of thousands, all with an enquiring mind and investigative nature. The facts of this seedy episode will emerge in due course, and all the while the sales of the Record decline. They are just like Scottish Labour, controlled by London, out of touch and out of time…
This is brilliant Stuart.
It’s a long time since I worked in a political newsroom environment. Sometimes I wish I was still there – if only to witness the gritted teeth by which some of the main offenders must greet your every new post!
Chortle chortle.
(gets popcorn)
The briefing paper linked below is also in the House of Commons Library. The vow has been explicitly referenced (Section 2.3, p6) as “joint signed statement of undertakings”.
SN/PC/06987 http://www.parliament.uk/briefing-papers/sn06987.pdf …
Scotland: Devolution proposals
Standard Note: SN/PC/06987
Last updated: 14 October 2014
Author: Hazel Armstrong and Paul Bowers
Section Parliament & Constitution Centre
Fitting and necessarily bruising. Ding ding.
So Mr Daily Record, would you like to give us all the details of how the “VOW” came to be, did the leaders of the unionist parties approach yourselves and say here is an agreement from the three of us for more powers for Scotland could you please publish it, and if so did they approach other newspapers with this agreement at the same time or just yourselves.
Or did you approach the three unionist leaders and say here’s a “VOW” for you lads what do you think? I think their is a few questions needed to be answered about how this VOW came about.
How about some answers DR, or is it time to say’ oh look theres a squirrel, fess up.
The Daily Record have put their head above the parapet. They cannot now put it back down and hope it all goes away.
As you say Rev it was words used by moribunds office, they can`t even read a story correctly never mind print one. Their day is coming.
“Fact: all three agreed to put their signature to the vow”
“Agreed” but apparently didn’t actually do it if the document doesn’t exist and have no intentions of doing so if the email of Millibands office is anything to go by
Ha, “a blogger from Bath”. Mr Foote you are an arsehole. The quicker your rag goes down the better.
@Rev,he he he Ah think a retraction is called for, Misdirection/ Misrepresentation serious alligations to a Journalist of Your standing,ah could take the hump wie You & stop funding WOS if I beleived them. Lawyers letter perhaps.Murray Foote has done his research on you & WOS if not he can phone the Editor of the Telegraph £££££ or as Jolo would say free money.
Keaton @ 8.14
I don’t know if your serious or not keaton?
I think I can smell fear
Just a question. Can we acyually drive the Daily Record out of business?
For that matter, I boycott asda, bbc and others, is there any actual figures or evidence that our actions are really hurting these companies?
If there is and someone can point me in the right direction to see for myself please do.
I will still carry on my individual protest.
I really, really hope Sky’s Faisal Islam publishes the emails that he claims to have between Labour MPs & Tory ministers regarding the vow. He says “not yet”, wonder what he’s waiting for? Presumably the Daily Record will be mentioned. Can’t wait.
The original tweet for those that didn’t see it:
“…in policy terms Better Together a sort of Grand Coalition..the vow. Tory ministers were swapping extraordinary emails with Lab grandees..”
lets all link the last two stories to the sun paper at least it might cause some sort of storm should the sun go with it..
Oooh the Daily Record trying to cover its tracks…
Popcorn time!
There has been a lot said about this on-line today. After reading the WoS piece we decided to put a post on the Record FB site requesting a response from Davie Clegg, the Record political editor. We were quite surprised that the editor Murray Foote responded, and pretty much confirmed that there was no document and no signatures. So where does that take this debate?
Did the reporting of ‘The Vow’ mislead a sufficient number of the electorate to change minds, and thereby the result of the referendum vote? Should there be questions about this asked in both parliaments? Is there legal recourse?
Some folk have said tonight that in Scots Law a verbal contract is binding, but proving who said what to whom is the major problem!
If, as the Daily Record contends, there was ‘negotiation on the words used’, there has to be a paper trail. The Daily Record should be forced to produce that, and that woud be in their interests too. Proof of such a debate between the ‘three parties’ would vindicate the Record of telling porkies, and also put some pressure on the Smith Commission to produce a report in keeping with what was allegedly being offered!
If not, the Daily Record should be dragged over the coals several times, and then some more!
WoS’s next crowd funding appeal: to pay the lawyers to get any evidence from the Daily Record??
I wouldn’t buy the rag with its dreadful form anyway. Why should I pay for more British propaganda?
Couldn’t care less about the Record/Brit Nat Parties vow. Without proper Independence it is worthless anyway.
@ClanDonald – yeah I’m curious about those emails as well.
If they are too damaging, he might be under pressure to sit on them
It wasn’t the break in that did for Nixon it was the attempted cover up.
Ed Miliband’s office have completely disassociated itself from the vow claiming it was a Daily Record mock-up. The Daily Record claims there were negotiations, agreement and actual signings by the three party leaders and the paper was only the publisher.
Both can’t be right, but both could be wrong. Until both sides can produce evidence to support their claims they we are entitled to doubt their words and call them liars.
There has been a lot said about this on-line today. After reading the WoS piece I decided to put a post on the Record FB site requesting a response from Davie Clegg, the Record political editor. I was quite surprised that the editor Murray Foote responded with the same comment you posted above. He pretty much confirmed that there was no document and no signatures. So where does that take this debate?
Did the reporting of ‘The Vow’ mislead a sufficient number of the electorate to change minds, and thereby the result of the referendum vote? The implications of this are such that questions should be asked in both parliaments.
Is there legal recourse? Some folk have said tonight that in Scots Law a verbal contract is binding, but proving who said what to whom is the major problem!
If, as the Daily Record contends, there was ‘negotiation on the words used’, there has to be a paper trail. The Daily Record should be forced to produce that. In reality, this shouldn’t be too hard, as proof of such a debate between the ‘three parties’ would vindicate the Record of telling porkies and also put some pressure on the Smith Commission to produce a report in keeping with what was allegedly being offered!
If not, the Daily Record should be dragged over the coals several times, and then some more!
WoS’s next crowd funding appeal: to pay the lawyers to get the evidence from the Record??
Stuart, love your work, informative and unbiased. Obviously the mainstream media are running scared their time is over! All hail the new Social media, mainstream has no answer and are being held to account.
The thing is for sport and news the record was a good paper so why pish on the people who give them their money..
If i had a paper shop i would put a sign outside saying sorry we do not sell the daily record as they do not represent the people of Scotland and sold us down the river
The Foote statement is nonsense.
The Parliamentary Document show a statement by snake Darling (no wonder he is in hiding) that the only powers that are being consider refers to those previously offered. They fell far short of the (empty) VOW. ‘Total Fiscal autonomy, Home Rule, Federalism’. Judas Foote. Next trying to claim you were conned as well.Liar. Who will it be Solomon – Davie Clegg, Torquil. Or all of you when sales fall. You were maliciously campaigning against Independence forever, inthe Labour/Unionist pocket.
Brown and Darling destroyed their Party to save themselves. Masonic Jud asses. Secrecy and lies.
In a cliché more commonly used by the unionist MSM, this whole sordid affair raises more questions than answers.
I think I feel sorry for the Record….
….no wait it is just a wee touch of indigestion…I still think they are shower of self serving charlatans.
If Faisal does have these e-mails he will only release said e-mails when Rupert decides the time is right. I expect that will be around May 2015.
A wee tip for Trinity Mirror employees like Foote. Best find yourself a bunker even deeper than the one Murphy is hiding in because that rumbling sound of an approaching juggernaut is the same one News International/UK heard before phone hacking exploded in their faces. 😉
Never bought it. Never will.
“The three… agreed….”
“….agreed to put their signatures ….”
“… followed up by every outlet …”
… of course. Even though the Vow itself was rather weak, it has to be seen in the context of what was said between the 8th and 18th by leading BT politicians and all the MSM. I am still of the opinion that it was all part of a pre planned strategy to be deployed when they looked like losing. The trick was to appear to offer Scots voters all sorts of goodies from all sorts of people reinforced from across the MSM.
The final words of the Vow may have been drafted around the 15th, but the idea had probably been planned many months previously. The DR’s part in the exercise was significant, but still only one cog among many.
Given the submissions by the 3 UK parties to Smith, I think we can be clear they always planned to deliver far less than they suggested!
“Stuart, love your work, informative and unbiased.”
Cheers, man, but I’m as biased as all heck. I’m just honest with it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKggnBh2Mdw
Murray Foote enjoy.
O/T
Independence Live Fundraiser, only 34 hours left
Help ‘Thistle’ and the team continue the great work they do.
http://www.independencelive.net/support-us
admitting NO actual signatures
SHAMEFUL
If I had a paper shop, it would be blown away. 🙂
It’s all pretty simple to fix – just ask the daily record for the emails or letters or however they communicated to them the details of the vow.
If there’s nothing to hide then there’s no problems – infact great chance for the DR to win back some credibility.
They don’t like it upp-im.
They don’t like it upp-im!
Now do you see how important and relevant your peerie site is Rev?
So, there we have it, once again- The existence of the “United Kingdom” is founded upon LIE AFTER LIE AFTER LIE!
For 300 years, the UK state has bound itself together by LYING TO ITS PEOPLES, and I mean, ALL its peoples, not only the Scots nation.
Believe you me, if we STILL had to rely upon the MSM(Who are fully paid up members of the establishment) we would STILL be in the dark regarding what is REALLY going on around us. Thank god for the internet-Rejoice!!
If the establishment think that, only by lying to its peoples, will the continuance of this corrupt and rancid “union” prevail, then its not a “union” worth saving!!
The Daily Record “Scotlands Champion” is in reality Scotlands disgrace.
If I was in charge at the Daily Retard,
publishing the paper trail to prove all 3 parties took part in a completely above board discussion and debate which led to a vow all 3 agreed with, and it proved they really are the Champion of Scotland, as well as getting one over on the Rev
Then I would *gladly* publish the lot…
I suspect they will publish nothing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEjgPh4SEmU&list=RDQEjgPh4SEmU#t=73
Cmon Murray Foote put em up, or ur you ah ducker n diver or ah bobbin weaver,square go ya bass.
@caledonia – Perhaps if everyone boycotted paper shops that sell the Daily Record, and let the owners of those shops why they are being boycotted, those owners might stop stocking and selling the DR. Would that not be more effective than individuals not buying the DR.
The Record is pish…fact.
Compare the Edinburgh Agreement and UK government joint statements with the ‘vow’ mock-up. There is no comparison.
Well said Wee Johnny!!!!
I’m willing to bet the readership of this site is a far greater number than the readership of the excuse of a newspaper.
With that in mind this could be the one thing that other newspapers in Scotland would normally jump on to finish them off but because they were all up to their necks in printing lies We’ll now have to wait until Sunday when the Herald lays the boot firmly in! It’s a sad state of affairs.
To Murray Foote-editor dr
Have you documentation to prove the three party leaders agreed to the vow and willingly signed it?
“So the Westminster parties cobble together separate, contradictory proposals for more powers – none of which offer any answers to the real challenges we face. They fail to come up with an agreed package that the voters can judge and scrutinise and vote on,” Salmond said. “Instead they say ‘leave it to us, we will sort it out’ – behind closed doors, among themselves in the committee rooms of Westminster.
“It is an approach out of touch and out of time. But let’s be clear – in the event of a no vote, even if such a deal could be struck, it wouldn’t be the people of Scotland who would have the final say.”
He added: “It is the clearest demonstration yet of why Scotland’s future must be in Scotland’s hands. It makes the case for yes more clearly than ever … with a yes vote we can deliver for Scotland real power – the power to choose hope over fear, opportunity over despair.”
Prophetic words indeed.
They really don’t like being questioned, do they? As much was evident in the way London media types whined about how they didn’t enjoy the 3 or 4 days they bothered to cover the referendum also. You’re just supposed to listen to them, never query, and definitely not listen to ‘bloggers from Bath’.
They’d do themselves a favour by recognising that this sort of nonsense is the reason why alternative media exists, many of us have sought out a closer approximation of the truth because the ‘real’ journos don’t provide it.
I said to people soon after the referendum that, if I hoped one thing had happened even in defeat, it was that more people were prepared to think about what they were being told, do their own research where they had the time and inclination, and not always drink the Kool-Aid. We will see how that plays out in time, but the commenters who believe the likes of Murray Foote are rattled are spot-on, in my opinion. He and others see that increasing numbers of people place no weight on what they say any more, hence childish lashing out and name-calling.
Here`s something that Fife Yessers may be interested in, speakers are Robin McAlpine, Mhairi Black and Craig Murray.
http://www.indyscot.info/details.php?ref=58
A message to Murray Foote…Your ship is going down…now GFY.
https://archive.today/yR3pC
Three big boys said it and told us tae write so they did “honest” ur they sayin they didnae?
At Moribunds a big “Bastirt” so he is ,him an aw he’s pals
SIGNED……………………
“RI DALY RECURT” n aw wur pals
an ris is pure legal by ri way….ahnaw…rite…
Nothing jars the tender senses of a Scottish newspaper editor more than the delivery of some truth.
It’s usually a case of shooting ones self in the foot, but here the Foote shoots the winging shot.
OK DR, you were on the winning side, you can gloat that you helped screw over the democratic process for all of Scotland and your team (in the pyrrhic sense) won.
So come on, redeem yourself to your lost and rapidly diminishing readership and print the evidence to show that not only is Rev Stu wrong, but that Adenoid Ed’s office is populated by even more stupid people than we already knew worked there.
Go on…you know you want to
How much for the front page and more importantly, who paid?
(Apart from Scotland)
Answers on a billboard.please.
If this Murray Foote has gone to this trouble its telling me that the rapidly dwindling sales and pressure being put on filthy treaturous politicians is working.
Just wait til you see what’s coming your way from IPSO, mr. foote-in-mouth.
OH YES, Karma is a bitch and our bitch is starting to bite.
BOYCOTT THE RECORD – SHUT IT DOWN – RED TORY RAG.
So does this mean the D/R forged the signatures, surely not!
Oh wait a minute…………
I have been in touch with Mr Clegg political editor of the DR.
I spoke to him today yet again asking for conformation of the official letter.
I have also spoke to various employees of the Lib Dems Party who now admit they have no idea if the original letter even existed in the first place.
I will continue to pressure them until they can provide evidence to back up there claim or admit it was indeed manipulation of trust in the people of Scotland.
Keep fighting for the truth!
Questions for Stu. What is the readership of WoS and by how much has it changed over the last year? What is the readership of the Daily Record and by how much has it changed over the last year? If you were Murray Foote, would you be happy with these figures?
I smell shite!
Murray Foote, “Three big boys did it and ran away. Honest”
If the Record refuses to release the paper trail in full that led to the infamous ‘Vow’ we are left to assume it is fraudulent and the editorial staff liars fit for firing.
The ‘Mastermind(s)’ behind the Vow will come to light in due course.
In the meantime, the 1.6 million YESs and the duped portion of the NOs need to get angry and make some noise.
Half the population upset and angry is a perfect recipe for change, and the perfect number to demonstrate to the political classes that people, not politicians or media, hold the power.
It is time there was an active organisation that soared above Scotland’s political parties. An organisation not bound by code of conduct of the SNP or Greens.
There are enough boots on the ground for peaceful resistance to this corrupt establishment who lie to ordinary residents of Scotland in order to hold them in penury and maintain the power.
I hear plenty of angry people. How can this be harnessed? Seven months until the GE, we need to make them count.
Soon we will have the Labour ‘Fanfare’ of a brave new leader along with their ‘Familial Bullshit’ and ‘Vote SNP get Tory’ themes.
We need to smash this propaganda machine each time it opens its mouth. Scotland should send zero Labour MPs to Westminster.
Lets help the SNP and Greens fight every single constituency. Scotland should be a Westminster Labour Colony no more. (Yes, a play on words)
The public does not like being lied to. Newspaper circulation is falling exactly because of items like the Vow.
The BBC happily tells us (without any analysis) what the papers have said, so lots of us have ditched the license and turned off the radio.
The only thing we have to do is convince the rest of the Scottish population to do the same. Getting this sort of thing out to a wider audience is what we need. Anybody got any ideas?
With regards the Record. It is indeed time to make it clear to everyone that like the ‘Scottish’ Labour Party, it is run from London.
The Daily Retard is no champion of the Scottish people. Instead it is a vehicle of the Westminster establishment. Time to do whatever it takes to give it a bloody nose the colour of it’s red top.
Mr Foote, don’t get your panties in a bunch, because you brought this on yourself.
Any good journalist would have explained the process of obtaining your scoop, given it’s an obvious photoshop jobbie, at the time of publication.
You can hardly blame people for asking their MP’s for copies of the original “Vow” – they had no way of knowing how authentic it was, given you didn’t declare this process you have today described.
I do think it very odd, however, that the party leaders are in the habit of sending a file with their signature through the ether to a Scottish newspaper. We do know, however, those party leaders were desperate men, at that point in time, bravo for exploiting that to your paper’s benefit.
Whether that is to Scotland’s benefit, I’ll leave to your own conscience.
@bjsalba
Anybody got any ideas?
Yes, lets start with the Anonymous March on the 5th. Edinburgh and Glasgow.
https://www.facebook.com/AnonyScots
https://www.facebook.com/anonymousscotlandresistance
Buy a mask above. (Saltire on anonymous mask)
And lets make these marches the biggest in the country. We have a lot of people. Lets show our strength and solidarity.
Wings should march with the people and encourage the rest of the 1.6 million.
Great stuff. I think you’ve got them rattled.
Don’t get mad, all – get even.
Please allow me to quote John Prine, Mr. Foote;
‘Got my hand in my pocket, thinking bout you.’
And it’s my hard earned cash I’m digging out of that pocket.
And soon, you will feel the weight of that funding from all of us here.
Sleep well.
Good riposte. I suspect they won’t follow it up because it will only bring even more publicity to:
a) Their perfidy, and
b) You.
I could be wrong, of course. They and their partners-in-crime in Scottish Labour are betraying signs of a collective and complete mental breakdown, so anything is possible. Indeed I wouldn’t be surprised if Torquil Crichton ran down the Broomielaw dressed as Kezia Dugdale with a tinfoil hat singing “Bring me the head of the Reverend Stu!”
Off for an early night. Hope I can get that image out of my head.
You were blogging in your bath? Thats awesome investigative journalism from the record.
http://www.ukanonymousevents.com
ronnie anderson
“square go ya bass”
🙂
I’ll hud yer jaikit and watch the Foote beg for mercy.
Everybody takes real exception to you being in Bath, huh?
Even the Daily Record editor knows the Vow was wafer thin, and they don’t want holes poked through it. It would be interesting to see who came up with the wording though, I can remember media reports to the effect they were agreeing a joint statement.
Perhaps it was done by the same Scottish referendum unit that directed the Treasury emails on RBS contingencies?
Would someone please start a petition asking the Daily Record to explain publicly the process by which they came to publish the “vow”. I don’t know how to and am sure someone here is better placed to word and distrubute such a petition? I’d sign it and happily share far and wide.
Dear Mr Foote,
Rattled I think you are. Well son, it’s time to put up or shut up.Learn to read properly before you decide to have a go at the Rev cause if you get it wrong then god help you. Ask the scotsman about that.
Come on then, if you have the evidence that your precious vow is real, lets be having it then.
Piece of advice for you, when you find yourself in a hole, stop digging.
Petted lip from the Daily Rag…Why do the “winners” come across as petulant, bitter and twisted losers? It’s a puzzle…unless they’re just lying pieces of ordure anyway.
@James caithness 8.43
your not on your own.
Unfortunately, we currently live in a post-Leveson UK. We therefore have a right to complain to the Press Complaints Commission.
I’d encourage everyone to complain. Even a cursory reading of the first few pages of the PCC’s website shows that item 3 of the editors code of practise has been breached by the Daily Record (see the extract and link to the website below).
Anyone know how to get an online petition running for the attention of the PCC?
THE EDITORS’ CODE
1 Accuracy
i) The Press must take care not to publish inaccurate, misleading or distorted information, including pictures.
ii) A significant inaccuracy, misleading statement or distortion once recognised must be corrected, promptly and with due prominence, and – where appropriate – an apology published. In cases involving the Commission, prominence should be agreed with the PCC in advance.
iii) The Press, whilst free to be partisan, must distinguish clearly between comment, conjecture and fact.
http://www.pcc.org.uk/cop/practice.html
The Record
Complicit in a deception or sad dupes?
or both?
The more you read that wishy-washy drivel from the D.R. the more obvious it becomes that it is just a series of meaningless random words that do not substantiate anything.
Looks to me like a classic case of misdirection and misrepresentation. Rabbit in headlights comes to mind with nowhere to hide.
“Now voters can make an informed choice”. It was almost amusing at the time, now its just downright offensive.
The Daily Record is a walking fraud in its own right.
A London owned,London Labour,Unionist mouthpiece masquerading behind Scottish national symbology so it can dupe it’s readers into believing it is a Scottish institution.
Now now guys, he may be Labour but I believe Lewis McDonald when he said,
Lewis McDonald (Labour chief whip) said ” David Cameron’s announcement immediately after the referendum result was known, certainly played into the hands of those who wanted to suggest there was some insincerity behind the vow that was given” .
This was during the Commons political and Constitutional reform Committee meeting in Edinburgh ( 16th October).
“Most people had made up their minds but a small but significant number had not , therefore those commitments had an influence on that small but significant number”.
Now would a newspaper put an elected MSP in the position of knowingly giving false information at Holyrood?
If your in the publishing business then an editors job is to sell newspapers not to sell propaganda.
I think they are only learning that lesson now. Bit late.
If they really believed you were merely ‘a blogger from Bath’ they wouldn’t have published this statement. The fact that they have shows how exposed and vulnerable they are.
“- just like it said in The Vow”
But it didn’t, did it?
The Daily Record people just can’t stop lying. They even lie about what they have printed in their own newspaper in black and white for all to see.
Hopefully more and more people will stop paying this organisation to lie to them, and that their sales continue to plummet.
At least they were honest about their lies.
If you read the daily record of deserve what you get.
surely post referendum vote, this is where the Wings site could make a huge difference by
1. facilitating though some easy link a mass complaint to press commission. Like > 100,000 complaints.
2. See if we can take some case to court (even if it loses) to get the light shone on these duplicitous bar-stewards.
You just get the feeling that SNP (like official Yes before them) will do nothing to highlight this, so its up to us to start acting on our own behalf.
@Claire McNab says:28 October, 2014 at 8:09 pm:
“I can certainly imagine a conference call between all four parties, where they hammer out the agreed text, and authorise the Daily Record to mock up a visual image of it, using Photoshopped signatures.”
Now I’ll say it again. If the Record mocked up a statement and, even if it was verbally agreed by the party leaders, when the Record, “signed”, it for them the Record are guilty of a criminal act of forgery. Furthermore, if any, or all, of the party leaders now claim not to have agreed to the words then the Record is again guilty of fraud, or one of the other terms used to describe illegal scams.
All it needs is a formal complaint to the Scottish Police Force for them to be legally compelled to investigate if a crime has been committed and report to the Procurators Fiscal.
Papers can be as biased as they like as the Record proves day after day after day. There is a revolving door policy between the Record and Labour for jobs which is by no means new. It’s been going on for decades.
Broadcasters on the other hand are actually supposed to abide by some rules on bias yet the TV coverage of scottish Labour’s meltdown looks more and more North Korean with every passing day.
I wonder how much it would cost in theory for a broadcaster to stop incisive questioning and real scrutiny in favour of panels full of Labour spinners, softball questions and a fantasy of normality as one of scotland’s biggest political parties falls apart at the seams?
A few lordships? A nod and a wink to Ofcom for a friendly face on the board? A promise of jobs down the line? A bung her and a bung there?
Who can say? Good thing that clearly isn’t happening then. 😉
Oh Jeez!
If they keep digging that hole, they’ll reach Australia any day now. 🙂
Questions for rattled Daily Record
So whose idea was the vow, did it come from BT or was it yours?
So where and when did all three leaders agree to put their signatures to your mocked up vow, how was this process communicated?
You need to clear this up otherwise everyone is going to conclude you just blithely printed what you had been handed by BT with the assumption that it was already rubber stamped.
I think the ” bugger from Bath ” has a certain ring to it – keep living up to the boil on the backside of the DR , Herald , Scotsman et al Stu, they deserve to be exposed as the deceptive manipulators that they are.
Let’s hope that all the people of Scotland realise they have been deliberately misled over the most important political decision ever presented to us by a shameless media.
It is utterly shocking that those who once boasted of being informers and protectors of the public, investigating wrong doers without fear or favour should turn into a bunch of dissembling bastards.
They are now being investigated themselves and held up to scrutiny which they don’t like – keep it up!
Hell mend ’em.
a blogger from Bath
Is that as bad as coming from Coventry? Here Rev., do you get invited to the Foreign Office, like Rami Abdul Rahman?
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/10/world/middleeast/the-man-behind-the-casualty-figures-in-syria.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
But on the Fantasy Chanel, the BBC tells us Rami is one of the good guys. Do they (BBC/MSM) think they are above the law? Reporting false news which encourages war, IS A WAR CRIME.
BBC link
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-15896636
https://m.facebook.com/profile.php?id=305917046254973
New Independent Newspaper from the home of journalism.
And in competition to the Tory run DC Thompson. ..they backed BT.
Hopefully this takes off, we need more than 1 printed Newspaper to educate the Technophobes.
DR RIP ????
Any legal-eagles clued up on the Scots Law crime of ‘Uttering’ regarding false articles with intention to deceive?
@James Caithness says: 28 October, 2014 at 8:43 pm:
“Just a question. Can we acyually drive the Daily Record out of business?”
We can if we can show they have forged three signatures and/or have lied and thus are guilty of fraud and the fraud is in relation to a referendum. We may even be able to claim a rerun.
“For that matter, I boycott asda, bbc and others, is there any actual figures or evidence that our actions are really hurting these companies?”
TESCO at least is in financial trouble with the media reporting their profits well down.
https://archive.today/pgHn8
@Macart, 11.06pm
Slightly O/T, but talking of Australia, there’s a fascinating article by Meaghan Delahunt over on Bella about Whitlam Gough’s tenure as PM in Australia between 1972 and 1975. Gough led a progressive and left of centre administration which ended when he was removed from office by the Queen’s Representative, the Governor General, Sir John Kerr, as part of an orchestrated plan between the UK government and the CIA. Rupert Murdoch also had his dirty little paws all over it; he instructed his editors to “Kill Whitlam”.
The article draws many parallels between this three year period of enlightened social reform in Australia and the aspirations of the Yes movement in Scotland, and how the establishment (the same one in both cases!) worked to bring them down. However, our movement still has all to play for and the article ends on a note of hope.
I had never heard of any of this, and I can’t recommend this article highly enough.
Could this be Ed Miliband’s revenge on the Daily Record for it publishing Johann Lamont’s resignation exclusive?
William Bolton says:
28 October, 2014 at 10:28 pm
Unfortunately, we currently live in a post-Leveson UK. We therefore have a right to complain to the Press Complaints Commission.
I’d encourage everyone to complain. Even a cursory reading of the first few pages of the PCC’s website shows that item 3 of the editors code of practise has been breached by the Daily Record (see the extract and link to the website below).
Anyone know how to get an online petition running for the attention of the PCC?
THE EDITORS’ CODE
1 Accuracy
i) The Press must take care not to publish inaccurate, misleading or distorted information, including pictures.
ii) A significant inaccuracy, misleading statement or distortion once recognised must be corrected, promptly and with due prominence, and – where appropriate – an apology published. In cases involving the Commission, prominence should be agreed with the PCC in advance.
iii) The Press, whilst free to be partisan, must distinguish clearly between comment, conjecture and fact.
https://www.ipso.co.uk/IPSO/
_____________________________
William,
I’ve replaced the link in your post, quoted above, with a link to the new body responsible for Press complaints.
The PCC was shut down on the 8th September 2014.
This same link and information has been posted quite a few times on todays other WOS article (From the office of Ed Miliband).
Hope this helps.
Things can only get better. Now is not the time to give up keep the presure on r when we are on a roll expose them for what they are
Keep the treachery of the Daily Record in the public domain.
They must pay the price for being the agent of the union. The are not a Scottish newspaper – shun it!
@Grant says:
28 October, 2014 at 11:21 pm
Any legal-eagles clued up on the Scots Law crime of ‘Uttering’ regarding false articles with intention to deceive?
What are the legal issues with “FORGING / USING ” other peoples signatures without their permission?
If they HAVE given permission / don’t question it, then surely they can be held culpable??
STUUUU – I smell another fundraiser!!!!!!
Ya know – all these lies were committed right before everyone eyes and in my opinion if it’s only a small % of folk like us who take notice when the majority are just getting on with there lives shows me the masses are willing to be lied to as long as they get there mortgages paid and X factor Saturday night in front of the TV.
Some pertinent questions for the Record editor:
Knowing political parties are not allowed to announce additional inducements or offers within the ‘purdah’ time frame, did the Record’s editor help compose the Vow so it appeared not to transgress electorial regulation but nevertheless leave the public with the impression solid promises of more powers to come had been made and would be honoured?
Or, did the three party leaders offer the Vow fully formed?
If the latter, did the editor object to the Vow knowing the rules were being undermined? If not, why not?
@donald anderson says: 28 October, 2014 at 8:52 pm:
“I wouldn’t buy the rag with its dreadful form anyway. Why should I pay for more British propaganda?”
It is NOT British Propaganda, Donald, it is, “Westminster Establishment”, propaganda.
“Couldn’t care less about the Record/Brit Nat Parties vow. Without proper Independence it is worthless anyway.”
Neither are they, “Brit/Nat”, parties. They are Westminster Unionist parties and, as Westminster is now the de facto parliament of the country of England they are English Nationalist parties. If you doubt those claims then tell me where the parliament that runs England is situated? Also tell me what archipelago the Non-UK Republic of Ireland, the non-UK Bailiwick of Jersey, Non-UK Bailiwick of Guernsey and the non-UK Isle of Man are situated.
In fact by claiming that the UK is the only part of Britain that is British you are propagating their propaganda.
o/t @ James Caithness etc
Boycotts are definitely hitting some . Every week a few people do not spend their £80 in ASDA etc and pop into Aldi or Lidl with their £80 , it actually makes a £160 difference if you follow my drift . 20 people only in each store is £1600 less to A but the T/o is now £3200 adrift from the competition . Thats per store per week . Much to my families annoyance,I’m on a hard boycott trail and I actually feel good about it , hope you and others do too. In the words of the Baron Knights ” Walk Tall ”
DR , what a shower of B@@***&&& !
After the last 10 years of enquiries etc & the newpapers promises of ” cleaning up their act ” they are still printing inexactitudes ( short for sh*te )
Sorry O/T again .
Could the SH be persuaded publish a full or 1/2 page every week of say some extracts of Revs Revelations (RR) e.g. The prev post/letter on the Vow ? It would add some more interest to their Newspaper too , give people who are not on here an opportunity to see things in a different light .
Is there any ,mileage in a leafleting campaign with a few selective RR which could have an impact , by this I mean enlighten people on what is and has really been going on.
Grouse Beater says:
28 October, 2014 at 9:49 pm
If the Record refuses to release the paper trail in full that led to the infamous ‘Vow’ we are left to assume it is fraudulent and the editorial staff liars fit for firing.
Fit for jailing would be more appropriate?
Thursday eve in Glasgow is great chance to let these people know precisely what we think of them and their putrid behaviour.
So far as abody kens, ‘Scottish Labour’ is having its Gala Dinner in the Central Hotel, at Glasgow Central Station.
BBC Scotland’s own David Porter has been regularly updating the nation on the current ‘problems’ in the Labour Party, and manages to alert everyone to the fact that Ed will be in Scotland ‘later this week’ without ever mentioning where, when, or why. For a journalist, that’s no mean feat.
A foodbank drive has been organised, but other groups have expressed interest in joining forces to provide a suitably vibrant welcome for Ed, who will probably have to be deposited on the hotel’s roof from a rope-ladder.
The logistics are also interesting – there’s no way that Scotrail will allow any form of political demonstration to be held on their property, so the demo can’t happen inside Central Station. But the streets outside the hotel/station are possibly the busiest in Glasgow, and there ain’t no pedestrianised zones. Where will Police allow demonstrators to assemble?
If, say, two or three hundred people turn out for this demo, it will look and feel like many times more, because we’ll have to be squashed into relatively tight areas, perhaps on the western side of Hope St, which has the broadest pavement within sight of the hotel entrance.
Please note – if you are intending to attend, most folk are aiming to be there for around 6 p.m.
Rattled Mr Foote, …..Rattled.
Strange wee world we live in, you Mr Foote are happy for you and the junk mail that you publish to print whatever you feel is ok with no come back, but us the people who believe in true values and being honest, are not allowed our voices to be heard, as the saying goes Mr Foote maybe the truth hurts? One lase foot(e) note just think how different you could be feeling at the moment if you supported a Yes campaign, opportunity given away for a fast buck no doubt.
@Tackety Beets – Thanks.
@Ian Brotherhood – Phots and vids would be great.
Mr Foote states in one of his Facts that the Daily Record is the most influential newspaper in Scotland.
This is an opinion not a Fact the usual test for a statement of Fact is verifiability.
His other statements of Fact up to now do not pass the test of verifiability.
Surely the DR would be wise to take a page out of Rev Stu’s book and actually try some real journalism for once. Quite contrary to the DR’s claim of ‘blogger’, WoS has more integrity and intelligent journalistic value than it could ever dream of. People are fed up of the toilet journalism of the msm, thats why so many so called newspapers are left on the shelves by tea time, a waste of paper.
Fed it through the Record
Are we getting warm.
@James Caithness –
There will surely be plenty of footage, but it’s down to us to make sure it happens.
We can’t even be sure that Ed/SLab will allow MSM broadcasters to cover his speech let alone the inevitable post-dinner wrestling matches – blood on the carpet, hair-clumps, snotters and pink-jaikit rag-ends everywhere else.
Here’s hoping that some of the banqueting staff manage to get some images – at the very least, they’ll be able to provide first-hand testimony, and it’ll surely find its way here.
One thing is certain – we won’t get many better opportunities to have a shout at these characters. Right now? they’re on their knees, just six weeks after an historic victory. Even if Murphy does/doesn’t chuck his hat in the ring before Thursday, they’ll be sinking further towards the deck, and just when the likes of Nick Robinson thought Mission had been Accomplished in North Britain? he’ll have to suffer ‘our’ horrible grating voices (i.e. those of our elected politicians) yet again.
Big appeal to all fellow Wingers – please get to Glasgow on Thursday if you can. We’ll have time afterwards to visit YesBar and/or The Horseshoe, but there’s a job to be done first – Miliband must not be allowed to enter Glasgow without hearing what Scotland’s biggest ‘Yes’ city thinks of him and his Scottish comrades.
P.S.
If you fancy making some kind of banner, but aren’t sure what to write on it, you could do worse than this:
‘EXPENSES’ APPROVED/PAID FOR 2013/14 (*):
ANAS SARWAR £204,606.59
JIM McGOVERN £201,808.49
JIM MURPHY £196,969.33
TOTAL: £603,384.41
*Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority
I have a version of the Vow with a No Thanks logo at the foot. Wording is different from the Record’s Vow, but it is signed by Lamont, Davidson, Rennie, as well as Milliband, Cameron and Clegg. The signatures of the last three look very, very similar to those on the Record’s Vow. In mine (downloaded, for a blog piece I was writing, possibly from Labour’s website) the names and positions appear beneath the signatures. In the Record’s the heads of the three leaders cover where the names appear.
Has the Record possibly rewritten this “There shall be more powers for the Scottish Parliament” version but lifted the signatures from it?
If Faisal Islam has correspondence detailing how The Vow came about, it would be folly to publish them now. The ideal date would be to coincide with any Smith Comm timetable points, shortly after the new Labour Scottish “Leader” election result, or during the 2015 campaign.
Assuming they are worth anything, of course. And also assuming his ultimate boss – Murdoch – can’t get anything out of the Unionist Trinity Parties in exchange for burying them.
PPS
If you can’t be bothered writing out all those numbers and/or don’t have much time to spend fannying about with poster paints and slices of cardboard, this might do:
‘Ed? GTF!’
Ian B,
re thursday night.
You could ask the police for a suitable protest/foodbank collection site. After all, they will know exactly where it will be.
I don’t if they will do that (the dutch police do) but we do have a right to protest peacefully and they are responsible for policing that as much as the Slab din-dins.
@ Juteman, 8:01pm 28/10/14
Tick the box, bottom left of page for email notification of new posts. Then you won’t have to catch new posts on the Twitter feed.
@ Ian Brotherhood 11:45pm Try Phoning the Central hotel and say you are going to the gala dinner and would it be possible to book a room ? They should be able to tell you if the Dinner is being held there.
Surely, the salient point from a referendum perspective, is whether the article lead the electorate to believe such a document existed or not. The fact of its existence or not. might well be relevant to any legal repercussions regarding the newspaper’s conduct, but that is a separate matter and secondary in regard to its deleterious effect on democracy.
Why did Brown spend time in Kirkaldy trying to get people to sign a pathetic petition for the ‘vow’ to be honoured ? -You were HAD nawbags and the Daylate Record peddled the lies!
@Chic McGregor
I agree, but they are interconnected. Legal repercussions against the DR may very will destroy the rag once and for all, which can only benefit democracy. The benefits are twofold:
1) The DR holds some influence over labour type people. Breaking that hold is paramount.
2) Other newspapers will have to tread carefully the next time. They won’t be able to lie so blatantly if the DR falls upon its sword.
*well
Question –
Why is the BBC Radio Scotland narrative currently running with ‘expectation that Jim Murphy will declare whether or not he will declare running for SLab leadership within the next 48 hours’?
What’s that all about?
The next ‘news’ should be on about now…will they repeat it?
Oh, no, sorry, er, well, they won’t, because Scots don’t get any of their own radio news during the night…it’s Radio Five Live now, and is all about Ebola virus, asylum-seeker backlogs, exploding rockets, Nottinghamshire being hit by an earthquake etc etc…
Oh well…we’ll just have to wait for GMS, eh?
O/T from new poster but regular reader & supporter.
A technical note that might help if you’re having problems seeing your post because the page isn’t updating. It sounds like your ISP is serving up its cached version of the page. Two ways round this:
1. Add a question mark after the slash:
http://wingsoverscotland.com/?
before you refresh.
2. Use Ctrl+F5 instead of the Refresh button
The methods can be combined.
Wonders necer cease. This from the Herald:
“Lamont was the victim of a Murphy coup, claims Labour MP” – Ian Davidson is the MP, article by Magnus who’s been quite quiet recently.
@Natasha, 11.24pm
Thanks for the tip Natasha, interesting read. History, quite literally repeating itself.
Even in the unlikely event that 192,000 voters now feel they were duped into voting No by the Daily Rag, that doesn’t give people the right to complain about their own stupidity. Having had another look at it, I fail to see how anyone possessing even a modicum of intellect could fail to recognise that the promises contained in the “Vow” equated to mere statements of the blindingly obvious and guarantees totalling the square-root of bugger all.
It is stupid to believe Unionist lying politicians so vote them out. 1million angry duped voters.
Unionist free by 2016. Vote SNP/Alliance.
I really don’t understand Murphy’s logic in all this. I just can’t be believe he’s so off his nut to want to be the leader of Scottish Labour.
The best he can hope for in 2015 is to do a little worse than Gordon Brown; the worst he might have to face is a near total wipeout north of the border; and the most probable outcome is a sizeable reduction in seats which will be blamed for Labour not gaining a majority/being the largest party.
Then, in 2016, he will get clobbered by the SNP retaining most of their seats and the smaller parties picking up some of Labour’s list seats.
Then he’ll be sacked. Perhaps it’s the fast track to the House of Lords he’s after.
I’ve stuck £20 on Sarah Boyack at 8/1 with Ladbrokes. The MSPs can’t stand Murphy. If Davidson’s to be believed, half the MPs can’t stand Murphy. The unions won’t stand Murphy. I can’t see them being daft enough to vote for him, and I can’t see Findlay standing because he knows it will ruin his career before it’s started. Boyack’s the stop-gap until 2016.
Nigel: Fit for jailing would be more appropriate?
I’d second that were there not a need to keep jail places open for politicians who lied as a matter of course. (Multiply by ten attacks made upon Scotland during the Referendum debate and you have the situation Chavez faced, a constant barage of attempts to undermine democratic rule and decisions made.)
“England was the only country to help,” said 105 year-old Sir Nicholas Winton of saving Jewish children during the Second World War, adding, “Thank you Britain.”
Aye, under the circumstances, we will forgive the error, old man.
As farrochie and others have stated previously, the briefing paper in the House of Commons Library makes explicit reference to the vow (Section 2.3, p6) as a “joint signed statement of undertakings”.
SN/PC/06987 http://www.parliament.uk/briefing-papers/sn06987.pdf …
Anything placed in the House of Commons library is a matter of record. The content of the briefing would therefore be open to FOI requests.
Jim Murphy will only stand if he can prepare himself an escape route after 2015.
Holyrood is becoming a graveyard for Labour politicians.
Is there an official “Don’t buy the Daily Record” campaign or movement? Perhaps a Facebook page? The Scottish online political movement should start flexing it’s muscles big style with this publication. Every right, proud, proper, honest Scot should choose never to buy this newspaper again and people should be embarrassed and shamed if they do.
The Daily Record – The Scottish Mein Kampf!
They wanted a grandstanding front page.
Well they’re standing now, after it bit them in the arse.
What about the bets put on the Referendum. Which was obviously a total fraud. People and good cases lost out because of the fraud which broke every electoral rule. Fraud committed by the Press/MSM which broke every purdah rule. Especially by Editors in the pay of Unionists who broke every election rule.
Why is it called the Daily Record? Because it holds the record for the number of Scots duped on a daily basis by a unionist rag.
Oh, and it produces record amounts of pure keech, daily.
If the record didn’t just publish a document but helped make up this “vow” doesn’t that amount to campaigning for a no vote? Electoral commission?
I don’t know why anyone in Ayrshire buys it anyway as they campaigned to have Prestwick airport closed, they are not and have never been Scotland’s champion
What are the legal implications of some concerned yes campaigners placing a flyer with website details of Wings over Scotland, Bella Caledonia, The Common Weal, The 45 %, etc, etc, in every newspaper in every newsagents at irregular intervals between now and the GE?
Put the charlatan crooked liars in jail. Freedom of the ‘Press’. They censor everyone else and tell a pack of lies to deprive the vulnerable and line their pockets. The ‘Press’ is out of control.
Implement Leveson in Scotland. At least there would be some redress. The power is in your hand Scottish Gov – implement Leveson.
What’s are ‘representatives’ of the three leaders, are they even politicians?
Miliband’s representative is probably formed from plasticine.
Close enough, begins with ‘p’.
Roger Proudscot-Butt tells it as it is for Proud Scots everywhere.
http://rogerproudscotbutt.wordpress.com/
On saving Jews during WW2. Britain was not the only country to help.
There was a regular stream of fishing boats carrying Danish Jews to Sweden, where they were welcomed. 7220 of Denmark’s 7800 Jews were rescued in this way, along with over 600 of their non-Jewish spouses.
When the Nazis issued the decree ordering Jews to wear the Star of David, King Christian of Denmark told them that, if they imposed it on Denmark, he and every other patriotic Dane would wear one. The Nazis backed down.
The King constantly interceded on behalf of the 400 Danish Jews who were captured, so the vast majority survived the War.
Now that’s a record to be proud of.
Slightly O/T
‘Lamont was the victim of a Murphy coup, claims Labour MP’
Article headline in the Herald
The Labour MP is Ian Davidson
The article is behind a pay-wall, but the gist of it is that Davidson is ‘scathing’, claiming that Lamont treated shamefully by Murphy’s allies who conducted a whispering campaign
Think that’s another crack in the Labour party’s facade
‘Orwellian’ is a word so overused, particularly by bleeding heart lefties during the last 2 decades, that it has lost much of it’s original meaning and intended impact. I’m sure I’m not alone in feeling that the last few years have at times felt like they have been orchestrated with constant reference to Orwell’s classic, with an MSM slowly drip feeding the public one double-think gem after another, hastily edited thereafter by their own wee Winston Smiths, to see just how big a whopper they can get away with.
This is one such whopper, perhaps one of the biggest and most insidious in the entire campaign to keep Scotland lashed to the dark star of London.
From the emails of the original article to the response of the Record on Facebook, from the riposte in this article to the comments above that reference parliamentary briefing papers that explicitly specify ‘signed statements’, we can say with some certainty that no one on the No side has a fucking clue what is going on, and that all of them are still engaged in an active campaign of obfuscation and deceit.
The FB post above says that ‘signatures’ were put to ‘the vow’, yet there is no ‘official document’….so what did they sign? There are parliamentary briefing papers citing ‘signed statements’, which the Record simultaneously claim exist yet do not exist in an official capacity, so what was signed?
The whole purpose of this piece of theatre is to make the process, the lie, the story, so complex in terms of chronology, agents and agendas, that the cursory glance given by the casual observer (and the journalistic equivalent given by the MSM) will never be enough to invite any real suspicion over and above that normally held about politicians and the press.
However complex this is or indeed becomes, one simple thread remains glaringly obvious; there is a massive deception that lies at the heart of this. No amount of verbal gymnastics or tawdry and intellectually offensive double-think statements by the Record or any of it’s buddies can mask the boak inducing stench of deception.
If lies be boomerangs, the Record is finished.
The reason the Record is a lying piece of ordure is all over the front page of their vow issue.
Three parties, three leaders, three separate ideas on what constitutes a national settlement between two countries. Now maybe just me, but surely even if you accept September 18ths result was completely above board and fair (not a f**king chance), then the settlement is between two governments at a national level to hammer out with the same representatives mandated to sign the Edinburgh agreement, now mandated to hammer out a devolution settlement. Y’know since there wasn’t a clear choice of settlement proposed at any time during the campaign period. And that is the nub of the matter isn’t it? There never was a clear settled choice from Westminster and certainly not from BT as the official mandated unionist standpoint. In point of fact it was always the status quo, but selling the big lie is what your hopelessly politically compromised media is for.
Even on the day those who voted no had not a fucking clue just what they were voting for, only that something had been promised and it was backed by the three party leaders and endlessly promoted by the media as a done deal. This is the same media who have quite shamelessly had a petition set up asking us to help them force others to keep a vow they made up themselves, based loosely on a promise by those parties only to propose and discuss amongst themselves what they consider significant powers. There is no promise to deliver anything that would require ratification by the Scottish electorate as acceptable or significant only that they would consider them so.
Even if you accept that the Record did, with honest (cough) intent put forward what they considered was the position of the three amigos, just who the fuck are they to decide on our behalf what is an acceptable settlement for the Scottish people? Who the fuck were they to say now you have what you need to make an informed choice? There was no WM devolution settlement to make a choice about, it never existed and to this day still does not.
Appositely, given it’s Halloween on Friday, the Record and Scot Lab seem to be locked ina dance of death.
Are we sure Murray Foote wrote this?
I mean did he sign it or owt?
Tell your family, friends and workmates;
“DON’T BUY THE FUKIN’ RECORD”
‘Lamont was the victim of a Murphy coup, claims Labour MP’
Article headline in the Herald
The Labour MP is Ian Davidson
Who also said they’d being bayoneting the wounded in Scotland after they won the referendum. We just assumed Davidson meant Yes voters and not each other, over and over too:D
The most important impact of the “VOW” was on the psychology of Scottish voters ,some of whom needed an excuse to vote for further powers but not independence. The DR gave the impression that there was a third option on the ballot paper “devo max” by voting NO. And that’s exactly how they wanted it to look. The Vow was the game changer the Unionists needed.
Edward says:
29 October, 2014 at 8:41 am
Slightly O/T
‘Lamont was the victim of a Murphy coup, claims Labour MP’
Article headline in the Herald
The Labour MP is Ian Davidson
———————
And that’s why Murphy hasn’t declared yet. The friends of Murphy will be scuttling round to find out what damage has been done and who will support him. The last thing he wants to do is end his career with a failed attempt to win the leadership vote.
Looks like it could be Boyack by default.
Well, Westminster is waiting for Jim Murphy to announce he will go for the SLAB place.
Just watch the BBC and the MSM ramp him up as some kind of hero, man of the people, a statesman, blah blah blah.
It is sure to come as they have chosen their man.
When I pop into my wee SPAR shop just before closing time, I see heaps of unwanted newspapers tied together to be returned to source. Hope to see that pile of record rags getting bigger by the day.
Stevie makes an excellent point about signatures:
Did the three append their signature onto the ‘document’ later published on the Daily Record’s front page, or merely give their permission to the editor to print a facsimile?
If the former, then that document exists and can be seen in hard copy form. If the latter, where is the paper trail that shows signed memos from each politician, or his personal secretary, approving the wording and layout, and giving permission for a facsimile signature to be appended?
Westminster – Pickles refuses to embrace Renewables and blocks every wind turbine application in England. Losing £Billions. England could face black out outs because of Westminster’s refusal to embrace Renewables and putting sanctions on Russia. Westminster also cut Solar funding. Nuclear is the dearest, dangerous and deadly.
Westminster Foreign/Defence policies mean there is an increase of migration into Europe. Fallon caused migration into Europe. Fallon is responsible for the migration problems. Destabilising and attacking regions/countries especially the Middle East causes migration to Europe.
I was at Uni with Sarah Boyack, Wendy Alexander and Fiona Hislop.
We were the golden generation.
WTF happened to me. ?
Listening to GMS (I know I know) to the sheer panic over Nicola’s statement about leaving/ not leaving the EU. The woman’s a gem,her bum has hardly got the seat warm and already she’s got them running. Gaun yirsel Nicola!
It is Davidson’s Party that has been bayonetted by it’s own members. Reap what they sow. Most of them are crooks and liars.
Murphy has the demeanour of a thug, maybe that is what Labour want, again, make the Scottish political scene appear rather inadequate, mind you that fits with westminster and the scene there so all better together then. What a shambles the uk really is. Or would that be sham.
Yes Go Nicola,
this is one responce to her statement..
UKIP’s ‘one nation’ David Coburn, the UKIP MEP for Scotland, has criticised SNP plans for a veto on UK membership of the EU.
“We are part of the United Kingdom. Our country is Great Britain – I don’t hold a Scottish passport, I hold a British passport as do we all,” he told BBC Scotland.
“We are one country and that was decided as part of the referendum, so what part of No don’t they understand?”
Yes David when we do get independance the British are welcome to you good riddance ya Fat racist git..
So, everything they said was a lie? I’m sure most Daily Record readers have the intelligence to read all the way through their articles and know that despite a picture of a typed document with actual signatures and constant references to “The Vow” by them, other printed press and televised news that the document did not exist, no document of ANY nature had been signed and any statements made by others about such a document were purely speculative. Further, statements made by Gordon Brown “guaranteeing” anything could not be binding upon Better Together and anything said by them could not be binding upon the ConDemLab coalition nor the present or future governments. David Cameron WAS clear on this way back, it was a yes/no on independence. Misrepresentation of political policy cannot be dealt with in the same way as misrepresentation in advertising. Lying in party political statements is specifically excluded under the law and if you ever doubted it “The Vow” WAS a political statement by The Daily Record not in any way connected to fact.
David coburns one nation stinks. My sons have New Zealand passports and uk ones, if ukip get any further significant hold on politics in this country my sons will be saving for that flight to Australia or NZ, though that country is looking pretty much like london in terms of political nastiness and bullying at the moment.
Well there you go folks – from Labour Hame website.
Sarah Boyacks big plan for
‘BLabour in the North’ is .. wait for it ! Double D (thought that was a beer ?) anyway there it is .. ta dah !
‘Double Devolution’ or bypassing Holyrood, ‘where BLabour have failed abismally’; so lets get power right into the Blabour fiefdom’s away from Nasty Yesser nats !
Now anyone living in the realm of ‘Argyll & Bute council’ (Independent controlled), will tell you what a slimy sewage ridden mess that is.
Great thinking there Sarah – we’ll all buy into that; not.
Power to the Labour people right enough. Hopless, completely hopeless.
O/T
I’m listening to Radio Scotland and I’m already hoarse shouting at the blithering idiots and in particular the Scottish UKIP numptie.
The matters causing all the several problems is exactly the same one. The average person cannot distinguish between a geographic feature that contains 8 countries, The biggest island that contains only three of those countries, a Kingdom that contains four of those countries and the simple truth that the, “K”, in, “UK”, does not stand for country.
This is, of course, the same propaganda of the Westminster Establishment ever since the 1706/7 Treaty of Union formed a political union of two Kingdoms that included 4 countries. Their whole ultimate aim is for England to become the Master Race and that is exactly what they have now achieve.
Westminster has made itself the de facto parliament of the country of England. It legislates for England and tags wee bits onto all passed bills to accomodate N.I. Wales and Scotland. It funds England as the UK directly with UK funding and uses The Barnett Formula to set the Block Grants for N.I. Wales & Scotland then forces them to follow English funding by Barnett Consequentials.
The Westminster Establishment is now effectively the Parliament of England devolving English powers to three subservient devolved countries. A far cry from the original set-up of a two kingdom union that is the Treaty of Union.
Never forget that the sole Conservative Member elected from Scotland stated how the Unionist Westminster Establishment parties view the matter when he let slip that, “The Treaty of Union extinguished the Kingdom of Scotland and renamed the Kingdom ofEngland as the United Kingdom.”
VOW?
Very Obvious Whopper
Just to get things into perspective if the Record is bad the Mail and the Express are very much worse. They both lie on a daily basis, make no attempt whatsover to even pretend to provide some balance and, as their combined readership is about the same as the Record’s, they have over the referendum campaign and before it been much more damaging than the Record.
Someone, somewhere had to give the Wreckord the Green Light. Who was it?
touched a raw nerve i think
looks like andrew neil’s distancing the bbc from the DR has caused an avalance of politicians distancing themselves from the DR
@Natasha
RT ran the Gough Whitlam story recently
http://rt.com/op-edge/198420-australia-pm-whitlam-intelligence-usa/
We ran this story yesterday as well and as the DR likes to put Facts on the record here they are;
FACT; DR told everyone the three stodges signed the said document!
FACT; DR admits they never signed a thing and more important not on the same document if any?
FACT; DR now admits fraud took place?
Biggest fact; All media outlets reported this vow as FACT yet they were all guilty of FRAUD or bad reporting as no-one checked the story and if they did the three stodges must have lied, FACT!
We now know the facts of the case the SNP stays silient all very well but the people who supports them are left asking why they are not shouting from the roof tops.
Perhaps its a case of looking like being statesman like, trouble with that is also looks like they were hoodwinked and told to except it all or else!
Last Fact; No other media outlet has reported this and the reason if they did they would all have to admit they got it wrong or was part of the largest deception sold to the Scottish people.
DR should hang their heads in shame, their editors should do the right thing and resign and every other editor who failed to check the FACTS before publishing the lie.
Why did the DR not also publish these so-called FACTS with a disclaimer that the signatures were not actually signed by the three stodges on the above document, oh because everyone would have said it was the best laugh of the day, perhaps!
‘No,no,no-Yes’ at 8.22pm 28th. October:-
“They are just like Scottish Labour, controlled by London, out of touch and out of time…”
The Daily Record is owned and controlled by Trinity Group,Canary Wharf,London.
Two sides of the same coin.
@James Caithness 28 October, 2014 at 8:43 pm
For that matter, I boycott asda, bbc and others, is there any actual figures or evidence that our actions are really hurting these companies?
If there is and someone can point me in the right direction to see for myself please do.
As far as the BBC is concerned, it might be worth trying a FOI request. A reply to a FOI request about the number of licence holders in Wales mentioned that there were 2,197,338 BBC licences in force in Scotland in November 2011 (but I don’t understand how a reply dated January 2011 can contain figures for November 2011).
It might be interesting to see how that has changed.
More info here: http://wingsoverscotland.com/enough-is-enough/comment-page-1/#comment-1894276
Come off this slagging of the Vow, folks.
What the Record is saying is that the wording of the Vow was negotiated by the 3 signatories. What the email trail was saying is that the presentation, in scroll-like form, was done by the Record.
All seems quite sensible – I don’t think anyone was deceived
in a court of law, these people may be obliged to name their contacts, including the bbc, who is legally obliged to tell the truth
i think they are getting nervous
I have an ancient scroll version of the Vow with a No Thanks logo at the foot. Wording is different from the Record’s Vow, but it is signed by Lamont, Davidson, Rennie, as well as Milliband, Cameron and Clegg. The signatures of the last three look very, very similar to those on the Record’s Vow. In mine (downloaded possibly from Labour’s website – can’t remember) the names and positions appear beneath the signatures. In the Record’s the heads of the three leaders cover where the names appear.
Has the Record possibly rewritten this “There shall be more powers for the Scottish Parliament” version but lifted the signatures from it?
Robert, I think what people are asking for is a transparent revelation of the process you describe. A copy of the originally agreed wording with the consent of the signatories to having their facsimile signatures appended.
It’s the continual refusal to produce this that’s making everyone so suspicious.
I have looked at the front page of the record an many occasions but I must be missing something at no time do I see the three mps make the comment “vow” they however do see pledge the only word vow is on the headline page of the record
@ Dorothy Bruce 1.05 p.m.
That would be this one http://wingsoverscotland.com/nick-clegg-signs-a-pledge/ produced by Better Together.
So that’s twice that they thought the faux parchment scroll look was a good idea.
Only a technical footnote, but on some versions of “THE VOW”, Clegg’s signature is reduced to a sort of join-the-dots puzzle. Suggests that it might have been in some other format orginally and that the whole thing was cobbled together very quickly.
What a deep hole the London owned Daily Record has dug for itself, if this unionist rag thought that things would just go back to normal after its part in the Scottish Referendum, then Murray Foote is in for a huge shock.
No amount of pleading innocence, or parity will dupe the now politically wide awake folk in Scotland now. We know the part you played,in the referendum, you know the part you played in the referendum, only now have you realised the gravity of the situation, for your Canary Wharf owned paper.
Never again will your sales figures hit the dizzy height they once did, and it all your own fault.
This ‘blogger from bath’ thing just reminds me of something their football journalists were doing a couple of years ago. The Daily Record completely missed the story of the demise of the football club Rangers, they completely ignored the story (until it couldn’t be avoided) and instead called those reporting it “internet bampots”.
Tell you something, these mere internet “bloggers” and even the “internet bampots” seem to be doing a much better job of reporting the news and reporting the truth than the people who are actually paid to do it.
It should be embarrassing for them, yet I get the feeling they have no shame whatsoever.
I remember the days when it was considered criminal to place another’s signature on a document and present it as true. Forgery I think they called it
“Only a technical footnote, but on some versions of “THE VOW”, Clegg’s signature is reduced to a sort of join-the-dots puzzle. Suggests that it might have been in some other format orginally and that the whole thing was cobbled together very quickly.”
Could be because he has only used a rubber stamp for the past 4 years. 🙂
Pretty sure this would fall foul of ECHR laws re Freedom of Expression. But UK legal costs required to get it there are proscriptive and the UK will probably have left the ECHR, as part of their sleekit Brexit strategy before it ever saw light of day.
OT
A chemical solvent commonly used in laboratories and elsewhere has been found to be extremely dangerous if used in an unregulated fashion.
It kills thousands of people every year and even in vapour form causes immediate blistering on contact with the skin.
It is also a major contributor to global warming.
The above is acknowledged to be factually correct by all scientific and medical opinion, yet use of the chemical, Dihydrogen Monoxide, is still permitted by anyone with no regulatory controls.
If you feel this situation is untenable and would be willing to sign a petition calling for strict regulation of this hazardous chemical, you may first want to know that its more commonly used name is ‘water’.
Sorry for this illustrative example of spin, especially if you have seen it before, but it is in a way relevant to this thread. The OT standing for ‘On Topic’ being part of the deception.