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The armchair terrorists

Posted on November 17, 2018 by

This is the editorial in today’s Scottish edition of The Times:

It seems to be an increasingly popular viewpoint in the country’s media.

This was Daily Record political editor Torcuil Crichton on Thursday:

And this was Times columnist Kenny Farquharson the day before:

It’s not his first time banging this drum, either. (We assume he meant AK47.)

In fact the clickbait punditariat has been trying to make it a thing for years.

And it’s hard to misinterpret those messages. What they’re saying is “it’s fair that Northern Ireland gets better treatment, because its people slaughtered thousands of each other in terrorist atrocities in the 1970s and 1980s. Scottish nationalists haven’t murdered anyone, so of course it’s right that they get treated like dirt when there are negotiations to be done, so shut up, whining Nats”.

You can’t reasonably read that any other way than as a rebuke to the Yes movement for not killing people. We can only surmise that Kenny and Torcuil and the rest secretly wish they had a real independence struggle to report on, a proper civil war with blood and guts and lots of opportunities to win awards. Mumping and griping that trains are sometimes a bit late doesn’t get you a Pulitzer Prize.

Don’t get us wrong. We’re bored too – Scottish politics is a wretchedly tiresome thing to be writing about at the moment, and they’ve had to do it much longer than us. And God alone knows we’re angry, filled with barely-coherent rage at the cretins in charge of the UK, their snivelling apologists in the press and the cringing Uncle Tams in the opinion pages still pumping out doom-laden mantras about how independence would be even worse.

But we’re not going to take up guns and bombs and start blowing up innocent people in the name of Scottish self-determination, and we fervently hope nobody else does either, no matter how much tuppenny-ha’penny hacks try to goad them into it in order to feed their pathetic fantasies of being the next Kate Adie or John Simpson, wearing their most solemn faces as they file reports from a blood-soaked street in Kilmarnock or a shattered pub in Aviemore.

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      The armchair terrorists | speymouth

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    1. Croompenstein says:

      Ghandi

      I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is only temporary; the evil it does is permanent

      We will do things the Ghandi way, can’t speak for the yoons though

    2. Dr Jim says:

      Peace and love man says Scotland, *Suckahs* says Britnat world

      Well at least we all know what they really want, what they really really want they want us to blow blow blow somebody up and then we’ll get paid attention to, them’s the rules Irishstyle

      Ziz a Zig Aahh

    3. Nick Dunne says:

      No history of political violence in Scotland, no ethnic cleansing of the Highlands, no genocide, move along now nothing to see here.

    4. Proud Cybernat says:

      The point these so-called journalists fail to grasp is that, regardless of the background issues that necessitate it, if a POLITICAL compromise CAN be found for remain-voting NI then SURELY it is not beyond the wit of man (or woman) to find a compromise that will equally accommodate Scotland’s remain-voting aspirations.

      Surely?

    5. Doug Bryce says:

      The interesting thing about Mays bad deal is that it legally ties UK into customs union to avoid border in NI. Even the backstop can only be revoked with EU consent.

      So : anyone telling you Scotland must choose between UK unitary market and EU single market is lieing.

      A Scot-Eng border only possible of we get hard brexit / no deal. Who in right mind would want to be tied to that sinking ship?

    6. galamcennalath says:

      “Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent.” ? Isaac Asimov

      There’s always a better way.

    7. Cubby says:

      With independence the Scottish NHS will save a fortune when all those cringers who are always on their knees stop needing knee replacements as they get older.

      Must be bloody sore being on your knees all the time.

    8. Ian Mackay says:

      So they suggest seeking Scottish independence is not to be countenanced as we didn’t use violence to meet our objectives?

      A very strange and tortured position.

      (Wonder what they would have written about Mahatma Gandhi and India’s independence from the Westminster Government in 1947?)

      They seem to be ignoring the elephant in the room:-

      Scotland did not vote for Brexit. It is getting NO special deal.
      Northern Ireland did not vote for Brexit. It is getting its own special deal.
      Gibraltar did not vote for Brexit. It is getting its own special deal.

      Every nation of the UK – apart from Scotland – is getting what it wants.

      Democracy must trump violence – and be seen to trump violence.

      Or don’t these journalists agree?

      The wilful ignorance of Scotland’s wishes by the Westminster Government is absolutely shameful; and as journalists they should be stating so – and not trying to incite violence.

    9. Cath says:

      I can’t imagine the SNP or Yes movement ever taking to violence to gain independence. I absolutely can imagine the BNP, Orange Order and UK state becoming violent to stop it. And I guess that’s the history of independent countries: it’s not “nationalists” ie those who simply want their country to be self governing who create the violence so much as those who are so against that happening they take up arms, or their government troops shoot unarmed protestors to ensure the people can’t rise up and create a normal country peacefully.

      Perhaps the commentators are just surmising that Scotland is only at the beginning of its struggle because we haven’t yet had to face the violence that will come to prevent it when it looks like even a flawed democracy can’t stop it?

    10. Muscleguy says:

      Nick Dunne is right and political violence in Scotland has long legs. After the Bruce was established as King his lieutenants went through Moray basically ethnically cleansing the Red Comyn’s clansmen, women and children so there was no chance of a rebellion.

      Historians now chart the start of the English Civil War as being the Bishops Wars here in Scotland. King James tried to re-impose Bishops on the Presbyterians who took up arms to prevent it. That spawned the Covenanters and everything which happened around that.

      The man some know as Bonnie Dundee, John Claverhouse is also known as Bluiddy Dundee in the SW as he cut his teeth suppressing Covenanters in their outdoor worship meetings.

      It didn’t end with the ’45 either, I’m thinking lots of political repression to squash the nascent democrats and such right through the 19thC which all got hushed so the mantra of everyone being good Victorians and Empire builders when agitation seethed behind the scenes.

      There was Red Clydeside and tanks on the streets. Radical Dundee. When I walk from here to the Craigie Asda etc just before the footpath round the back is a mosaic plinth commemorating the Timex women who wouldn’t stand for exploitation.

      We may not have been sniping polis with armalites or building car bombs but woe betide you found yourself in the wrong place. Yesterdays Courier had a piece about a well to do, dressed to the nines merchant deciding to take a stroll through the Hilltown here in Dundee who had to be rescued by the polis from a baying mob who were throwing stones and mobbing him. If that isn’t political violence what is it? Social unrest is political.

    11. Artyhetty says:

      Also sounds like a threat, stay in the cesspit that is union, do as you are told, and nobody gets hurt! Gun pointed at Scotland’s head. ‘Grave uncertainty’ ‘secure’ words which are deliberate tools to scare the living daylights of the gullible.

      ‘Grave uncertainty’ is particularly insulting given the SNp had published a 600 page document outlaying a potential future in an independent Scotland, yet the constant daily right wing rags shouted ‘too many unanswered questions’, ‘too much uncertainty’! Oh yeah oh yeah! Here us we tell the truth and nothing but lolz!

      So it looks like we are told to be ‘secure’ we have to give up on seeking to stay in the EU and that will mean being independent. A threat if ever there was one!

    12. Martin says:

      It hardly matters now. The scales are falling off and we are headed for Damascus. The contempt for Scotland is already turning heads. The Irish paradox will be used aggressively (one hopes) by yes politicians to ram it home and indyref2 will come and Scotland shall be independent

    13. Duncan says:

      Being from the central Highlands I’ve drunk in all those shattered pubs. I now live in Kilmarnock where the streets are blood soaked enough already. I doubt either place would notice if civil war broke out tbh.

      We’ll have to put up with a corrupt media spouting their unionist agenda for now. Along with the politicians they support, these people are fighting the independence war for us. Ordinary people are waking up. Get some popcorn, sit back and watch

    14. Jules says:

      I honestly wonder if these journalists are capable of thought.

      Which kind of behaviour deserves to be rewarded, politically:- violence? Or a peaceful democratic movement?

      All sensible, intelligent people would say peaceful democracy should be rewarded ahead of violencet. But for our wonderful pro-Union journalists and politicians, it seems to be the other way around.

    15. ScottishPsyche says:

      The unionists say there is nothing special about those who want Independence in Scotland.

      All those ‘Yawns’ and complaints about ‘grievance’ show how boring and normal we are. Are they goading us to show we can’t REALLY want our independence as much as we should? It does seem they want us to move on to the next level to prove what? That there are no differences in the dark corners of our souls from those who were driven to take up arms for their cause? Are they going to push us bit by bit? Is that Ruth’s next move for the Loyalist mobs?

      Let’s never respond like that. Let’s bore them into an agreement with arguments about how it is the right thing to do. Let’s laugh at their fetishistic love for Union Jackery and let them puff out their chest and thump it like the tedious grunts they are. A square go for Indy? No thanks.

    16. Neil Mackenzie says:

      The relevant equivalence, of course, is both Scotland and Northern Ireland voted ‘Remain’. No one can say that doesn’t exist.

    17. Neil Mackenzie says:

      … or that it’s crass.

    18. Kevin says:

      Irritating to think that in an independent, and clearly flourishing, Scotland, some or other unionist comic will hire these amateurs and offer them a platform to snipe from. I’d like never to see them again when we’re independent. Yes, that would be just fine.

    19. galamcennalath says:

      Cath says:

      UK state becoming violent

      They certainly recent form. We should remember, and those who don’t know should make themselves aware, that the recent troubles in NI began when the UK state, its agents and allies, became violent towards peaceful protestors. A spiral of violence took over, but it is now historically crystal clear who first turned to violence.

      I so hope Scotland can reach full independence peacefully.

      However, I fear the dark forces of extreme BritNattery might turn to violence. Hopefully, the situation will have evolved to a stage where our police and security services can contain it.

      Ordinary folks must never ever rise to the bait and begin a vicious circle.

    20. Doug McGregor says:

      What hypocrisy !The last time Scotland had political violence was perpetrated by the “better together” side of the argument in George Square in 2014.

      We have to keep cool heads , nothing would suit WM more than an outbreak of real (or manufactured) violence. It would allow them to impose martial law and direct rule as they have done in many colonies.

      Very soon from now , we will be unable to call on Europe to temper their treatment of us , hopefully Indyref 2 will be well timed.

    21. jfngw says:

      Some Scottish journalists are a sort of Rangi McRam (It aint half hot mum).

      They believe they are part of the greater Britain and appreciated by the establishment and look with disdain at the Scottish people who they believe have not risen to their heights.

      In reality those they believe they are equal to just see them as useful tools to retain the status quo. Some will be thrown a few baubles, this will have them bursting with excitement, ‘it could be me next’.

      Perfect example of this works for the BBC, Scot who hates Scots, never quite made it to the top of the organisations he wanted to lead. Now earns his bread making stupid noises and pathetic hashtags for people, alternatively he may be abusing women on twitter.

    22. Auld Rock says:

      A gentle reminder to all the BritNat warmongers, one mans terrorist is anothers PATRIOT – never, ever forget this.

    23. yesindyref2 says:

      Timely article from “finger on the pulsw Rev”.

      We should pay attention, there are agent provocateurs about trying to stir us up to violent thoughts.

    24. ROBBO says:

      You are right they are just hoping that some idiot/s resort to violence of sorts so that they can then point to the ‘YES’ movement as a bunch of extremists. JOB DONE.

      These people are just what I call bottom drawer Scots. They are in essence English by nature and just bring out their Scottish roots only when it suits them. They have clearly no respect or love for their country quite content to see Scots disinherited while everyone else walks away with the family silverware.

      They are disgrace to their country.

    25. anon anon says:

      Wars of the Three Kingdoms

      The wars also had elements of national conflict, as Ireland and Scotland rebelled against England’s primacy within the Three Kingdoms.

    26. Brian Powell says:

      Tho they may have forgotten they live here, where they peddle the poison or barbiturates, depending on how one wants to look at it.

      And in fanciful scenario, folk might decide to look at those who created the issues and not their neighbours as Crichton etc would want.

    27. yesindyref2 says:

      As far as the journailsts mentioned are concerned, it’s very clear they would be happy to see Northern Ireland get a special deal, putting NI in a position it can be the halfway house for the UK and the EU, while Scotland isn’t.

      That would, as Sturgeon says, damage our economy, but that seems to be OK for these journalists and rags that employ them.

    28. jfngw says:

      Just as I thought, the journalists are writhing in agony at the demise of a paper that practically nobody wanted to read. It’s hard to feel sympathy for them as they have deliberately ignored and rarely reported the impact the Brexit would have on Scotland. In fact the said paper would have us sink with the UK without a second thought.

      Journalist are the some of the least compassionate people I have ever met (I worked in an organisation with some for a long time). They are always looking for the story that will make them famous, the collateral damage is irrelevant to them. They care not a fig about anything really except their own career, the worst ones are the fake emotion types, although they tend to be on broadcast as it’s hard to get the fake emotions into print.

    29. frogesque says:

      The only casualty during IRef 2014 was an egg that had the singular misfortune and indignity of being an omelet on Jim Murphy. The egg deserved a much better demise.

    30. Cubby says:

      A history of no political violence. Aye right – there is plenty of it from English invasions to Britnat clearances. These Britnat journalists like the resident Britnat who posts on Wings are just ignorant diddies who don’t know their arse from their elbow.

      Not even batshit Jill would make such a ridiculous comment. Well being a history professor I don’t think she would but you never know with lying Britnats.

      Someone should tell them to watch Outlander or Braveheart or Outlaw King. Obviously history books are way beyond their capabilities.

    31. starlaw says:

      These so called journalists need to look at what happened to Johnston press, the elected to fill their papers with items nobody wanted to read and expected their papers to sell. If they wish to keep themselves in a job they should write what people will read and not the rubbish for a select few.
      Perhaps a fruit stall in the ‘barras’ selling fresh air in a can has as much chance of ‘selling out’ as these journalists have of selling newspapers.

    32. Proud Cybernat says:

      O/T

      Just heard Sainsbury’s are to be selling crunchy insect snacks @ £1.50 a bag.

      I suppose it could help prevent the Brexit Ration Books.

    33. orri says:

      Think you’re wrong about it being because they, or the extremists amongst them, were killing each other. Westminster couldn’t give two shits about that.

      It’s the bombing in England and targeting politicians and other members of the establishment that concerns them.

    34. Cubby says:

      John Jones @ 2.41pm

      The only thing that will be getting blown up is you because you are a balloon.

      A false flag man are you.

    35. Golfnut says:

      Terrorism is all to obvious in the UK. The UKgov and Westminster, their media, both broadcast and print are the perpetrators

      They spread fear and alarm, cause division in communities, vilify the poor and disabled, pursue policies that create poverty, unemployment, cultural and ethnic cleansing.

      Rampant state propaganda floods the airways and print media subverting the democratic process.

      Bombs men, women and children to bits, destroying homes and livelihoods on behalf of Corporations intent on stealing a nation’s assets.

      Yes, we know who the real terrorists are.

    36. Golfnut says:

      And let’s not forget who actually caused the division Ireland.

    37. John Thomson says:

      Sorry if I upset anyone but if UK treat Scottish citizens with the same contempt and violence that I seen in Northetn Ireland as a serving soldier then by god I will fight. 19 years service experience of that almost 10 was in Northern Ireland 1st tour was 1976.

    38. John Thomson says:

      We always said that if the shoe was on the other foot we would do the same ie if England had occupied Scotland

    39. Tinto Chiel says:

      Still recovering from seeing that picture of Tank-Top Torrance. Simply gwoosome, my dear.

      There is a better way: https://weegingerdug.wordpress.com/

    40. Dr Jim says:

      It’s the school bully method of I’ll keep punching you until you lose your temper and punch me back then I’ll claim that’s what you wanted all along

      I guess the Britnats don’t enjoy being punched by laptops, and it’s always the same rancid putrid Britnat Nyaffs who keep trying to stir it up using examples of the most mentally irregular reasoning

      Because it’s who THEY are

    41. Zen Broon says:

      It’s what Fintan O’Toole calls “the myth of blood sacrifice“.
      Scotland apparently does not ‘deserve’ independence.
      It is an imperialist mindset, just as prevalent on the English left as on the right.
      Why else does Corbyn (for example) back independence for Ireland or Palestine but not Scotland?

    42. Zen Broon says:

      It’s what Fintan O’Toole calls “the myth of blood sacrifice“.
      Scotland apparently does not ‘deserve’ independence.
      It is an imperialist mindset, just as prevalent on the English left as on the right.
      Why else does Corbyn (for example) back independence for Ireland or Palestine but not Scotland?

    43. North chiel says:

      Having read recently that a Police chief south of the border stated that in the event of a no deal Brexit, they would be unable to cope with the social unrest caused by possible food rationing etc., then be in no doubt a “ state of emergency “ would see troops deployed to “ restore order” . I am quite sure that the Scottish population would “ remain calm” , however , be in no doubt that if our police eventually couldn’t cope then military personnel on our streets under the control of “ the Scottish office” , would ensue. As previous posters have alluded the suspension of Holyrood and imposition of “ direct rule” would probably also take place. Thereafter “ daily propaganda broadcasts” from the London establishment bunker in Whitehall would be the norm via the usual state propaganda outlets.
      All this would be presented by the BBC in Scotland as being “ quite normal”. I kid you not.

    44. yesindyref2 says:

      @North chiel
      As I understand it, that decision is in the hands of the FM, not the PM. There was a recent time troops were deployed inEngland and Wales, forget what, but in Scotland there were none – the decision of the FM.

    45. North chiel says:

      Very much hope you are right on this . Indyref2”0358 pm.

    46. Dung beetles feeding off the sewage.
      I’ll dance a jig at the next downsizing of the Herald and Raggard troughs.
      Good Riddance to the Hootsman.
      We shall be free soon. The threat of violence comes from Davidson’s Brownshirts.

    47. Proud Cybernat says:

      O/T

      JP group taken out of administration. Creditors writing off most debt and injecting £35m.

      Scotsman may not be gone quite yet. (There’s another IndyRef to fight, sure).

    48. maclarcs says:

      I love that picture of Torrance. Looks like he has shat himself and is wondering if anyone else has noticed 🙂

    49. yesindyref2 says:

      @North chiel
      Mmm, May 2017, after the Manchester terror attack (under operation Temperer):

      https://www.ft.com/content/55639ffe-4070-11e7-82b6-896b95f30f58

      but for Scotland:

      “Sturgeon: troops guarding 12 Scottish sites but not expected on streets” (this was sensitive sites such as 9 MOD and 3 civil nuclear ones)

      https://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/15307162.Sturgeon__troops_guarding_12_Scottish_sites_but_not_expected_on_streets/

      “Updating MSPs, she said: “We do not currently envisage that military personnel will be deployed on the streets in Scotland or in other public locations. However as with all operational matters this will be kept under review by the Chief Constable.” ”

      It’s am operational decision, but ultimately the political decision is under the control of Holyrood, as are Police Scotland, as I understand it.

      Bascially speaking, our police force is better manned than the England ones.

    50. Euan Whazermy says:

      British media logic.
      Because there has been violence in Northern Ireland, that proves why they should have a special deal.
      If there were to be violence in Scotland, that proves why they SHOULDN’T have a special deal.

    51. yesindyref2 says:

      Ooops, I mean in terms of numbers not ability!

    52. Scotsman will be saved, no doubt by our tax money.

      The regime requires all the propaganda it can muster at a difficult time like this especially when the Scots are beginning to realise they are being shafted (becoming restless).

      There may be a surprise buyer or a ” consortium “.

      MI 5 investmentsfor example.

    53. Big Jock says:

      I had an angry exchange with a work colleague after Wednesdays chaos. His answer was to compare Scotland with Yorkshire or Liverpool.

      This from a Scotsman. I said:” At what fucking point are you going to start sticking up for the country you live in”.

    54. Les Wilson says:

      A interesting article how India got it’s Independence from the UK.
      https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/speech-brought-india-brink-independence-180964366/

    55. Proud Cybernat says:

      Yorkshire and Liverpool are but mere cabins in RMS Titanic and have to go down with the ship. Scotland, however, is yer akchul lifeboat on RMS Titanic and has a choice to stay and go down or GTF out of there.

    56. Iain mhor says:

      Channeling Mao eh? Political power grows out the barrel of a gun. Harsh but true.
      There’s an “only” missing from that epithet for a reason though. Valid alternatives exist.

    57. Brian Powell says:

      People should take note of the Brit General on TV a few days ago, saying the Brit Army stands ready to defend the UK.

      Consider what that can include. We know where the violence is.

    58. galamcennalath says:

      Big Jock says:

      to compare Scotland with Yorkshire or Liverpool

      Frustrating. Very. That is the way some BritNats see it, alas.

      They are a minority because the majority of Scots consider themselves ‘Scottish only’, as most English consider themselves ‘English only’. This ‘British’ thing is mainly for Scots and NIish who are wannabe English and recent immigrants to the UK in England.

      So what do we do with BritNats who don’t see Scotland as a country, far less their country?

      I won’t be giving up on them. In 2014 it was difficult to get through to them, however in IndyRef2 we can appeal to what is best for their future and that of their families – right swinging loony driven England, or a potentially safer future in iScotland associated with the EU.

      It really depends how strong their BritNattery is. Some will be willing to crash and burn with England, others might see iScotland has more appeal at a self preservation level.

      That logic will apply to a lot of folks. Like pensioners, they must be persuaded their pensions are safer in iScotland. Or the NHS, safer away from privatisation mad Tories.

    59. t42 says:

      “If only scotland were like n.i. where divide and control is easy” – they sigh.

    60. twathater says:

      What we have to remember is that we are in a VOLUNTARY UNION with engerland , we are NOT captured or overthrown , so consequently it is OUR duly elected Scottish Government and OUR duly elected representatives who are RESPONSIBLE for the safety and security of SCOTTISH CITIZENS , OUR government will have no requirement to request or facilitate assistance from ANY foreign government , any intrusion , unwanted or unwarranted assistance should immediately be refused .

      As Sovereign Citizens we have elected OUR Scottish Government to respond and react to ANY attempts to subvert the common good of our citizens , and ANY attempts by persons or organisations to inflame or incite violence should be dealt with rapidly , robustly and publically .

      It is my belief that these journalists and publications should be asked to explain their motivation behind these articles , and it should also be explained that the Scottish Government will take all legal steps against them if it is found that they are attempting to incite violence or unrest

      We have all seen the destruction and heartbreak caused by amoral people with vested interests , our SG should warn these people it will NOT BE TOLERATED HERE

    61. Luigi says:

      If its really not an issue, why are the Brit nat’s dressed as journalists going to great lengths to try and justify it? Sounds like they are seriously rattled.

    62. Eileen May says:

      Nonsense from anonymous’Muscleguy” of “Bruce ethnic cleansing”.

      King Robert did something UNHEARD of in the 14th century: he PARDONED his enemies, and told them to decide- once and for all “Are you Scottish or English? Decide NOW”

      Scotland may have lost a few, but gained such as those from Homildon who became HAMILTONS.

    63. Gary45% says:

      A few decades ago you could actually read a fairly balanced output from the news stands, as mentioned on previous posts the truly garbage un-newsworthy papers were few and far between, “think Sunday Spurt” etc.
      When Journalism turned into Churnalism the writing was on the wall for any of the titles, who became blinkered and lazy, which is obvious with the lack of quality they produce.
      It seems editors from all titles read from the same hymn sheet, yes you may get the odd story which goes against the remit of the Empire/World 5 dominators, but when the rest fall into the establishment line, the “odd story” can easily be treated as “Fake News”.(even when its proved fact)
      Their demise will be missed, but they cannot blame anyone but themselves, there has been plenty of serious situations regarding the citizens of Scotland/World, and the “gutter press” have done nothing but blinker the population with biased unrelenting garbage.
      Hootsmon and the sorry rest, CHEERIO.

    64. boris says:

      Irresponsible press hacks need to exercise greater care over what they write for public consumption Scottish politics can be likened to a scratchcard. When the protective layer is removed the content is exposed and there is way it can be covered up again

    65. Bob Mack says:

      I wonder if Kenny Farquharson knows AK45 RATHER THAN AK47,
      is urban slang for a faggott or a bastard ?.

      I think he was being sleekit there.

    66. Scottish Steve says:

      Didn’t the Orange Order threaten to become a terrorist organisation in the event of independence? I think the government of a newly independent Scotland ought to invest heavily in an anti-terrorism unit.

      Then again, I’ve seen the kind of inbred pond life and coffin dodgers that frequent Orange marches. I don’t think we have much to fear. But better safe than sorry, eh?

    67. Terence callachan says:

      Scotland sends 59 MP,s to Westminster
      SNP ……………..35
      Conservatives..13
      Labour……………7
      Lib Dems………..4

      In the Scottish parliament at holyrood Edinburgh we have two groups of MP,s
      Those who were voted into to parliament by the people of Scotland and
      those who get in without any votes they are chosen by their party leader we call them List MP,s

      Those voted in by the people of Scotland are represented as follows
      SNP 59
      Conservatives 7
      Labour 3
      Lib Dems 4
      Greens zero
      Independent zero

      Those requiring no vote from the people of Scotland who are just chosen by the leader of their party to be an MP in the Scottish parliament are called List MP,s and are represented as follows
      SNP 3
      Conservatives 24
      Labour 20
      Greens 6
      Lib Dems 1
      Independent 1

      If you add together all the MP,s who are actually voted in by the people of Scotland to Westminster and the Scottish parliament holyrood Edinburgh you get the following

      SNP …………….94
      Conservative ..20
      Labour………….10
      Lib Dems……….8
      Greens………….zero
      Independent…..zero

      So what do these figures show ?
      They show that SNP got 72% of the votes from the people of Scotland
      Surely that’s enough for the SNP to just declare independence

    68. Ian Mccubbin says:

      Make up a new reason of your own anyone, apply to what Nicola Sturgeon and many of us say, then create a diversion.
      Very colonialist.

    69. Breeks says:

      “Scotland’s best guarantee of a secure future is to remain within the UK.”

      No, Scotland’s best guarantee of a secure future is to remove its resources, economy, and Constitutional integrity from the stifling propaganda and cynical exploitation routinely suffered upon it by a parasitic and mind numbingly incompetent Westminster Government.

      There is no symbiosis in this Union. None. It is one way, unrestrained exploitation on a truly withering scale that is only even possible because it is underpinned by surreal propaganda and media disinformation which permits no counter narrative to exist. A bewildering maelstrom of distortion, fallacy and manipulation which turns the discovery of oil into a curse, the slaughter of our wildlife and stripping bare of our hillsides as an economic necessity, and the presence near our biggest city of detested and immoral weapons of mass destruction as a blessing and job creation scheme.

      Our precious Health Service and the Scottish Government which protects it from ruthless privatisation is stalked daily by the BBC like a wildebeest which cannot rest and must somehow stay ahead of the baying hyenas. It’s as sickening as it is contrived and false. Cut it out you f___ers!

      There is no guilt or regret in the sociopathy of our media, just frustration that the salting the narrative with SNP bad and Labour’s messianic rise from the grave is proving a dismal failure, where once upon a time it was adequate to ensure our supine indoctrination. But not any more.

      Burn in Hell Times newspaper in Scotland. You, the Telegraph, the Mail, the BBC, the whole stinking caravan should turn around. You’ve aw been fund oot. We have no mainstream media in Scotland, just an evil fecking looking glass which turns black to white, and friend to foe.

      If you know what’s good for you, you’ll get to fk out my country before the whole world sees you for what you are. And take your idiotic xenophobic Brexit with you.

    70. Capella says:

      How preposterous – that Scotland should demand to stay in the CU and SM.

      “Scotland voted remain”, said Ian Blackford to Evan Davies on R4 Today on Thursday.
      “So did London”, Evan Davies retorted indignantly.

      At that point it would be a good idea for SNP politicians to educate people like Evan Davies and the listening public by pointing out that Scotland is a country – one of the two countries which comprise the United Kingdom. The other is England.

      We have no objection to England leaving the EU if that is what English people choose. But we must remain in Europe because that is what Scottish people voted for.

      It is really very simple.

    71. Ottomanboi says:

      Being a Scottish Nationalist is in the eyes of the system, subversive, and in effect it is considering we seek to break the chains that bind us. The gap to being a ‘terrorist’ may be bridged with a simple flourish of a Daily Mail hack’s pen. Liberators are always terrorists.
      States under ‘threat’ develop a certain measure of paranoia. ‘Surly’ Scots are a real pain. We do ‘whinge’ too much, with mountains of good cause actually. We shall not get back in our ‘box’. So what are you going to do about Britannia?

    72. Ottomanboi says:

      …so what are you going to do about it Britannia.

    73. Bob Mack says:

      Imagine having no history of political violence in Scotland.

      Ha ha ha ha. All that history I learned about Wallace,Bruce, wars, border raids, was all nonsense.

      Tanks in George Sq, Dundee. Sabre charges.was I dreaming?

      We have faced violence from the State in many forms and eras.

    74. Dr Jim says:

      Yorkshire population 1.8 million
      Yorkshire square miles 4.596

      So as we can clearly see folks Yorkshire and its population are about the size of a shortbread biscuit tin and apologies to the good folk who live there but you’re not a Fking country you’re a Sunday afternoon walk wae the dug

      Scotland population 5.4 million
      Scotland square miles 32.000
      Plus the largest and most productive fishing waters in Europe, not to even mention all the oil and gas

      So please England shut up about Scotland I’m sure your wee hills and dales are all lovely but Scotland is none of your business and we don’t want to be either, sort yourselves out and mind your own or we’ll switch the lights out on you
      coz we make all that stuff as well, now I’ll get back to my Xbox game, Whoops! we invent those as well, Oh and space satellites, we do lots of those things

      England, just go back to watching telly, that’s some of Scotland’s older work, and when you’re done with that you’ve always got the sheep, and your very own big loud mouths backed up by empty heads

    75. Petra says:

      It’s clear that cringer Chrichton, the Daily Record’s yes man at Westminster, has little knowledge of the history, politics or geography of Scotland. Not surprising when you know that his focus has always been on his love of England and brown nosing their politicians and so-called elite.

      Farquharson says, “The reason Northern Ireland gets preferential treatment in Brexit deal is because of a binding international treaty” …. with no thought being given, more likely totally ignored, to the International treaties, for example many UN articles, that have been / are being broken by Westminster, in Scotland’s name.

      And of course Torrance has made a meal of, and a load of dough from his promotion of Scotland being “Ulsterised.” As Theresa May reminds us, including him, that she doesn’t consider the 6 counties of Ulster to be part of the UK, a thorn in her side no doubt, in response to Nicola Sturgeon pointing out that NIreland was mentioned 100 times in comparison to zero mention of Scotland. … “Scotland wasn’t mentioned in the UK/EU deal report as it’s part of the UK.”

      Three wee saddos, the embarrassing dregs of the World’s journalistic barrel … potential troublemakers, of a number in Scotland, who’ll stop at nothing to deny the Scots Independence. The mouthpieces of the Westminster Establishment that has been breaching one UN article after another which includes Article 20.

      They should also be mindful that journalists aren’t exempt from the Law of the land and that communications considered to incite public disorder are illegal. Watching and waiting to see how far they’ll go with this.

      https://www.ohchr.org/en/professionalinterest/pages/ccpr.aspx

    76. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Kinda O/T but re ‘union jackery’.

      This is worth a read…

      https://twitter.com/kt22cloud/status/1063838641913585664

    77. Petra says:

      @ Breeks at 6:07 …

      Excellent post.

    78. johnj says:

      Put nothing past these devious unionist bastards.

      If it needs a civil war to engineer their continued grip on Scotland’s people and its wealth then they will see that one happens.

    79. Rock says:

      “We’re bored too – Scottish politics is a wretchedly tiresome thing to be writing about at the moment”

      It could have been so different if Nicola had not blown it:

      Rock (27th August 2017 – “Underneath the Goodyear blimp”):

      “Scotland was on the verge of independence immediately after the Brexit vote.

      The unionist parties were without leaders and completely lost, the SNP had 56 out of 59 MPs and 50% of the vote, the EU’s eyes were (favourably) on Scotland.

      But Nicola squandered a once in a 1000 years golden opportunity by wasting more than a year flogging a dead horse – a separate deal for Scotland which was never going to happen.

      The result: Nicola outsmarted by the collusion between Saints Theresa and Ruth on one hand, and Corbyn on the other, fall in SNP support from 50% to 37%.

      It is my prediction that there will be a “snap” Brexit and the SNP will be caught napping and unable to hold a second independence referendum.

      Or another “snap” Westminster election with the SNP again losing support.

      Despite the pretendy “sovereignty” and boasting of the clueless pompous armchair pundits posting here, Scotland is again as far away from independence as ever.

      If they succeed in neutralising the Rev. Stuart Campbell and WOS, independence will be “stone dead” for at least 620 years.”

    80. Rock says:

      Croompenstein says:
      17 November, 2018 at 1:41 pm

      “Ghandi

      I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is only temporary; the evil it does is permanent

      We will do things the Ghandi way, can’t speak for the yoons though”

      Civil disobedience in Scotland?

      Pretendy “sovereign” Scots have become a cowardly people, it is not going to happen.

      Nothing more can be done except waiting patiently for independence in 2640 AD.

      Does a single poster here have the guts to go on the record and state that Nicola will definitely hold an independence referendum without a Section 30 order from Westminster?

      If so, when?

    81. Terence callachan says:

      Hey Rock….steady on there, Scottish independence is coming ,its the older generation that votes against it and I understand why, they fought on a world war and during those times people from Scotland England Ireland Wales did come together and did appreciate each other but times move on ,unfortunately memories don’t move on memories remain and when you get old it’s the memories that comfort you when you wonder what it was all for, what did my life mean ?
      You won’t change those old soldiers minds or their wives and sisters, but in another ten or twenty years there won’t be any of them left and just about all the young people coming along are very very intent on Scottish independence.
      I think Scotland will become independent soon I do believe there are enough people changing their mind from NO to YES .

    82. Effijy says:

      Yet another farce put forward by a fake Media UK.

      So if we can blow up a few innocent people, a politician, a Royal, and maybe a pretend journalist we can count as a country or slightly worthwhile country?

      I’d rather beat the bastards that uphold having Scotland as a vassal state without violence so we can build a bride over to Northern Ireland and create a land link and then we count?

      Seriously pissed of with what passes as journalism in the UK.
      Propaganda merchants filling their talentless pockets at the expense of the disabled, those requiring temporary support, those working on minimum wage and the general working families.

      We hope to be treated with no less respect than the DUP Leaders and supporters. That is the DUP who demand that the earth is only 4,000 years old, dinosaurs are the work of the devil, who openly record their leaders singing and dancing to “We hate Catholics” song.

      The party with direct links to paramilitary murderers.

      The Party who are on course to waste £1 Billion of UK Tax payers money burning environmentally unfriendly wood chips heating empty barns, a party picking up £Billions in bribes keeping the Tories in power.

      So do we start killing, build that bridge or become bigoted deluded subsidy junkies?

      I’m important as a Scotsman! Get me out of the UK!

    83. hackalumpoff says:

      OT
      Well done Ireland, beat the All Blacks, party of parties in Ireland tonight.

    84. Colin Alexander says:

      @ Rock

      Even if the SNP hold an unofficial indyref, so what? They can’t even organise an energy company or hold onto the MP seats they already had.

      There’s no way the SNP would declare indy, even if the vote was 100% YES. They would ask to negotiate with UK Govt and get laughed at AGAIN.

      They would be told: the official vote was held in 2014 and the result was NO to independence. You can have another vote in maybe 20 years, not now.

      I can’t think of a single SNP politician that would tell the UK state to stick their UK political salary and pension cos we’re declaring independence.

      Life is just too cosy, too well rewarded, as administrators of a puppet govt.

      So much for Outlaw King.

      If they make a film about these times, will the SNP will be the 21st Century Toom Tabard or puppet Scottish Govt that bends the knee in servitude and prevents independence?

      The next few weeks will provide the answer. So far, it’s no looking good.

    85. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Can anyone remember the names of those two auld duffers on the balcony in The Muppet Show?

    86. call me dave says:

      Stadler & Waldorf.

      I know what yer going to say. 🙂

      What could possibly go wrong at the footie with 10mins to go. 🙂

    87. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @call me dave –

      God bless-us-and-save-us and soap-us-and-shave us, ye’re a mind-reader so ye are!

      😉

    88. Gary45% says:

      Ian@9.24.
      Waldorf and Statler.
      I think I know where you are going with this.
      The arseholes above can only dream of being as smart as a couple of muppets.

    89. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Could abody please spread link for the Kilmarnock Yes shop crowdfunder? It really needs a wee boost.

      https://www.crowdfunder.co.uk/yes-east-ayrshire-crowdfunder-2018

    90. call me dave says:

      Jings! The last time a Scot scored a hat trick in an international was 110yr ago…time flies Rock.

      Jimmy Quinn against Ireland. Not that it’s likely tonight.

    91. Clootie says:

      ….it appears that following a rationale political process was a mistake???

    92. call me dave says:

      PS:

      That stat on the footie was from sky…and it’s wrong!

      Just had a quick check.
      ———————————————————-
      The last player to score a hat-trick for Scotland was Robert Snodgrass, in a 2018 FIFA World Cup qualification match against Malta on 4 September 2016.

      Steven Fletcher scored two hat-tricks in UEFA Euro 2016 qualifying matches against Gibraltar on 29 March 2015 and 11 October 2015.

    93. Thepnr says:

      @call me dave

      Sky commentator got their facts wrong? Noooooooo!

    94. HYUFD says:

      Terence Callachan If all young people voted the same way as they got older we would hardly ever have a Tory government as the Tories have not won 18 to 24s since 1983. However the Tories have not lost over 65s since 1997 either.

      Longer term with devomax ultimately there is no reason Scotland cannot stay in the Union though I admit the likes of Mogg do not help and he has said he is not bothered if Scotland stays in the UK so long as Brexit is delivered

    95. Colin Alexander says:

      I’m not a troll, so I’m not going down the Muppet Show route to slag any SNP politicians. My criticisms of the SNP are genuine, based on performance, or rather the lack of performance, not based on personality or appearance.

      Rock is right when he says the SNP have wasted their time begging for a seat at the Brexit table. The SNP’s solid red line of EU membership if Scotland voted Remain or it will Indyref, quickly became a wavy pink line of Single Market membership.

      Now??? Now there is no line at all, it’s silence from the SNP. Where’s the leadership?

      There is none. It’s just hoping the for the best and the FM supporting a Britnat “People’s vote” where England’s people decide for Scotland again.

      Is it time to take the blue off the Saltire and just make it all white?

    96. Scotspatriot says:

      Colin Alexandria
      You’re a troll alright….and poor quality.

    97. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Ian Brotherhood at 9:24 pm.

      “Can anyone remember the names of those two auld duffers on the balcony in The Muppet Show?”

      Others have provided the answer but you may not have seen this clip of them, which features Peter Cook and Dudley Moore.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UT02–Ijdc

      WARNING – contains the ‘c-word’.

    98. Clootie says:

      @Colin Alexander
      You are a troll. We all know what you are trying to do. Now go and practise safe sex with Rock.

    99. One_Scot says:

      Lol, this site is full of trolls, that is what makes it stand out from the rest, the fact that it is allows opinion from people no matter what side of the fence they sit on, or what their motives are.

    100. Ian Brotherhood says:

      ‘You’re so vain…you probably think this-entirely-coincidental-Muppet-Show-query is about you… you’re so-oh vaaaaaaiiiin…’ etc.

      😉

    101. Colin Alexander says:

      It’s clear the SNP are waiting, desperately hoping for full Brexit to be cancelled, so they can say:

      as Brexit is cancelled, indyref is cancelled.

      Just as you would expect from puppet govt servants of the UK state.

    102. One_Scot says:

      Colin, clearly your pants are gonna fill when IndyRef2 is called, lol.

    103. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @BDTT –

      !!!

      Soo-perb.

      My old man had that, the LP, kept it hidden as if it was porn.

      😉

    104. Ian Foulds says:

      Petra says:
      17 November, 2018 at 7:31 pm

      ‘Farquharson says, “The reason Northern Ireland gets preferential treatment in Brexit deal is because of a binding international treaty’

      Does this person know there is also a binding international treaty between the Kingdom of Scotland and the Kingdom of England?

    105. Cubby says:

      The three amigos have stopped f……. g each other and decided to come on to Wings for a bit of trolling.

    106. Thepnr says:

      Monty Python’s apology to Politicians gets it just about right.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7j6Qbqga8J0

    107. geeo says:

      The only way brexit will be cancelled is because of the impact of Scottish action, primarily the ECJ case, which if won, will put power in WM’s hands.

      The ultimate act of taking back control, yet WM are trying to use the law to STOP WM having the power to deliver parliamentary control.

      That needs a few minutes to sink in to folk.

      Now imagine the English backlash when Scots interference is blamed for their precious brexit being cancelled.

      “Give the jocks their independence” would be the cry.

      Millions of English voters wanting someone to punish, and only unionist parties available darn sarf..

      Not sure that would end well…!

    108. Ian Foulds says:

      Terence at 8.58,

      There will be damn few who fought in the Second World War; maybe a few more who fought in Korea.

      The oldies (over 65 for argument – and as I am one, I would argue with that description), are generally split into impoverished and comfortable pensions, investments and the like).

      They won’t change albeit I saw quite a few on the AUOB marches and they were certainly enthusiastic and riled up.

    109. geeo says:

      Anyone had a go at this yet ?

      Daily Record indy poll.

      79% Yes.

      Nearly 63,000 votes.

    110. Thepnr says:

      This is just amazing not. Spot the difference!

      Torcuil Crichton from his tweet above made two days on the 15th Nov at 11:02

      Blackford asks “why not Scotland” drawing a crass equivalence with Northern Ireland which doesn’t exist if you stop for a second to consider the history, politics and geography of Northern Ireland.

      Then compare with this from tomorrows Sunday Mail!

      Mundell said: “This week she reached a new low with her crass demands for Scotland to be equated with Northern Ireland.

      “It confirmed that nothing is off limits now for Nicola Sturgeon – the sensitivities and unique circumstances of Northern Ireland, its geography, history and culture can be cast aside, if there is some opportunistic political point to be made.”

      http://archive.fo/Vaq0X

      So just who is putting words into who’s mouth???

      This just gets more and more ridiculous, the journalists in Scotland are a disgrace to themselves and to the profession.

    111. Davie Oga says:

      You can’t blame them for not knowing about political violence in Scotland that is spread across the last millenium. For most of them Scottish history is Willam the Conqueror, Plantagenets, Tudors, Some guy from Scotland who wised up and went to London, King Billy, King George and the economic modernization of the highlands, Victorians, The Somme, The Second World War, Suez, The Second World War. Falklands, The Second World War, Thatcher, The Second World War, King Billy, and lets not forget The Second World War.

    112. Thepnr says:

      Similarities, all of which are purely a coincedence.

      Torcuil Tweet: “crass equivalence”

      Mundell Sunday mail: “crass demands”

      Torcuil Tweet: “consider the history, politics and geography of Northern Ireland”

      Mundell Sunday Mail: “Northern Ireland, its geography, history and culture”

      A tweet printed in a paper three days later is now what passes for “News” in Scotland. Beam me up Scottie FFS.

    113. Daisy Walker says:

      Fir me – at this moment

      They hae worn me doon,
      tae’n the wind oot ma sails
      noo all the wind and the rain, an sna – aw it hails
      They hae worn me doon.

      Aw’ their lies, an their smears, an their slights and their Peers
      they hae worn me down.

      An am batter’d ‘n blue

      They hae worn me doon.

      FUCK EM! THERE’S A PULSE YET.

    114. AndyMcKangry says:

      Whether Colin is a troll or not, I will agree with him on “the people’s vote.” Scotland should have absolutely nothing to do with it!!!
      Scotland voted 62% to remain, we don’t need to vote again and no deal Brexit probably means Independence at last.
      If England wanly another vote then that’s up to them, we should be doing nothing to help them out.
      They’ve shat in their own nest, let them clean it up themselves.
      Do people really think we get any thanks from them??
      AND where was English support for overturning the Indyref vote after all the lies were exposed after that vote.

    115. jfngw says:

      What chance do we have when there is a SNP MSP on twitter claiming we would need to join the Euro if we were in the EU. He also doesn’t know his Berriso from his Barroso, possibly it was the Barolo that was clouding his memory.

    116. Petra says:

      Brilliant Geeo, however the link is capoot at my end.

      I wonder what cringer Chrichton and creepy OO Clegg make of that?

    117. Ken500 says:

      Ireland will vote to be united after being illegally partitioned. Ireland wanted Home Rule/Independence. Same as Scotland Home Rule/Independence. These cretins are just stirrers.

      The Westminster unionist Gov is an absolute disgrace, The Press are terrified they will be out of a job, especially in an Independent Scotland, They own their jobs to Labour/unionist patronage. Or working for non Dom tax evaders. Most of them should be in jail. Hacking phones, bribing public officials, surveilling people, telling compete lies and not doing the slight research. They just print unionists propaganda. Not worth the paper it was printed on. The Leveson recommendations not put in place. The second part of the Inquiry cancelled. The Press is just a disgrace. Thank goodness for the internet.

    118. Lochside says:

      Carlaw, Mundell and Crichton.. three craws..calling the SNP ‘below the pale’…how ironic …how absolutely despicable!

      ‘Beyond the Pale’ was where the English dared not tread in their early attempts at subjugating Ireland. Crichton’s total ignorance, feigned or real is typical.

      N.I the fabricated ‘state’ created in 1921 to placate the rebellious ‘loyalists’, armed by Germany, aided and abetted to threaten the democratic all Ireland vote for Home rule by British army officers’ mutinous refusal to order their troops against them.

      A protestant state, created sectarian and oppressive towards the one third of its corralled inhabitants. Discrimination in jobs, housing and voting so bad that after 50 years the ‘Troubles’ erupted. This tinpot state, neither fish nor foul, neither ‘Ulster’ ( 3 x counties left behind in the Free State) nor ‘Northern’, Donegal stretches further north, represents even today the stinking corruption of ‘British fair play’.

      Gerrymandered voting with tories and loyalists holding everyone to ransom with dirty underhand funding. Democratic dictatorship exists in both Scotland and N.I. Both have cultural majorities voting constantly to overrule the indigenous people’s wishes: the RC and nationalist populations have the loyalists still bullying them out of remaining, and we have the English voting right wing tories in over us and denying our sovereignty and our desire to remain in the EU.

      The tories are using concerted attacks on the snp to raise the ‘Ulsterisation’ dog whistle narrative to drown out the drum beating hypocrisy and the criminal ineptitude of Brexit. They are truly beneath contempt

    119. Molly says:

      It maybe says more about the journalists minds than the public’s that they immediately associate N Ireland with ‘ the troubles’ but whatever the journalists think, they know themselves that Nicola Sturgeon would never compare Scotland to N Ireland in those terms. Even Mundell is trying this nonsense

      Went to see Nae Pasaran. Excellent film even Joanne Lamont pops up in the background , anyway as the oldest man in his 90s ( being recognised for his role in stopping the repair of the Rolls Royce engines for Pinochet) goes up to the podium, you can hear him say “ I don’t know what I’m going to say but I’m saying something “ and that is why every one of those journalists/ Strategists/Whitehall mandarins/ Mundells/ Davidson’s and Browns know no matter how contemptible their behaviour there will always be someone in Scotland who “has to say something “.

    120. jfngw says:

      @Thepnr

      It’s a concerted effort by the media, it was the main headline on the BBC Scotland evening news. It’s the latest strategy to undermine an independence vote, make out the SNP are being unreasonable turning down a ‘good’ deal. It is actually an awful deal for Scotland , but when your priority is to preserve the union, any deal will be sold as a good deal. Thuy media are now on full preserve May and the Tory government mode, yoi can safely ignore all output, well even more than normal.

      As an aside I wonder if in 1930′ Germany they plastered all there fruit, veg & meat products with a flag, somehow I suspect not. Don’t remember anyone talking about the Third Reich beef products.

    121. jfngw says:

      If I’m reading the situation correctly Mundell’s position has changed from I will resign if NI gets a different deal to I’ll resign if NI doesn’t get a different deal. He is demanding that if we want independence he wants to see blood on the streets, well that’s the only conclusion you can make from his u-turn on the NI/Scotland situation.

      I thought he was just a spineless coward but it turns out I underestimated him, turns out he is actually a despicable spineless coward.

    122. Gary45% says:

      Thepnr@11.03
      And this is one of the many reasons news?papers are blocking u-bends everywhere.

    123. Petra says:

      Great investigative piece of work Thepnr (11:03pm). After a job with the Rev, lol? Proof of the pudding, once again, that they’re all in it together, Labour and Tories – the Unionist media and politicians. Too bad, for them, that they’ve seemingly got to pool and share the few brain cells that they have to put a sentence together. Maybe this is who Johann Lamont was referring to? And of course it doesn’t help either that liars are said to have notoriously bad memories. Who said what, why for, when and where? That lot are never, ever, going to outwit Independence supporters, many highly intelligent, multi-talented, trustworthy and honest, now. Our time has come and their days are numbered, hence their manic displays of pathetic, fearful, immoral behaviour being ramped up.

    124. Dr Jim says:

      Predictions are the Tories will be in meltdown on Monday, it looks like there are enough letters in to implode their whole rotten system in the hope of introducing another all new rotten system, and the camels back will break in every corner of the UK as Jacob Reese Mogg is forced to accept nomination to leadership *against his wishes for the good of the country*

      And oh how we’ll laugh at the faux surprise and modesty of the great man, then watch support for the Union crash to the floor in Scotland, and not because the Britnats will be FOR Independence they’ll just give up being against it

    125. Footsoldier says:

      Same reason BBC have not opened HYS on Mundell backing May. All part of a big master plan from the centre.

    126. James Barr Gardner says:

      O/t
      In WW1 the War Office in 1918 decided to have a war bond drive driven by sending tanks to cities in the UK.

      So who raised the highest?

      Yes, it was Glasgow

      Glasgow £14,563,714
      Birmingham £6,703,439
      Edinburgh £4,764,639
      Manchester £4,430,000
      Bradford £4,060,000
      London £3,423,261
      Newcastle £3,068,768
      West Hartlepool £2,367,333
      Swansea £2,180,939
      Hull £2,186,820
      Leicester £2,063,250
      Liverpool £2,061,012

      No figures for Ireland

      However it was deemed that West Hartlepool had who had more per capita as the winner. Typical shifting goalposts by the corrupt Cesspit City of London.

      BTW Who put it about that Scots were stingy ? The people who could or would not put their feckin’ hands in their pockets, the Engalanders !

      A demonstration took place in George Square on Friday 31 January 1919, it was known as Black Friday”, this was only 82 days after the end of the First World War!

      Workers were demonstrating for increased wages and a shorter working week in the aftermath of the first world war. From orders from London the leaders of the strike were arrested after British troops were supported by tanks.

      So there you have it Scotland raised more for new tank in WW1 than the whole of England and Wales!

      Less than a year later the London Establishment tanks send into Glasgow and arrest folk !

      You jist could’nae write the script fur that, COULD YE !

    127. Terence callachan says:

      To Davie oga…..
      World war ll lest we forget , god I’m sick of hearing and seeing that, so much so it’s turned me against it I just switch over or switch off whenever it starts.

    128. Thepnr says:

      @Daisy Walker

      A great wee lament with a powerful ending 🙂

    129. Josef Ó Luain says:

      One of the tragedies of our time is that our elected politicians can’t/don’t/won’t stand up and tell it the way that @ Breeks has so effortlessly done, above.

      I may have missed it, of course

    130. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      James Barr Gardner at 12.02

      From the end of the 19th century right up to WW1 Glasgow (and its immediate massively productive environs) was per capita the richest city in the world.

      Not that the poor workers enjoyed much of it.

    131. Terence callachan says:

      Some people are critical of SNP not calling the referendum.
      I say to you all, be smart, be patient yes patient, we and SNP know how sleekit Englands Westminster is god knows we have seen so many films about it read history books about it we know they are not to be trusted.
      This whole Brexit thing is not a giant mistake believe me at the heart of Westminster there is a plan and it’s being played out, part of the plan is to trip up the SNP to get those who have moved from NO to YES back on board the britnat gravy train.
      Think about it, who are the most likely NO to YES movers ?
      You are right…labour voters
      Brexit will inevitably lead us to a place where the Labour Party are seen as saviours
      Saviours of the union
      Saviours of the poor
      Saviours of the working class
      And it will be presented as that and will encourage Scotland to thank labour for also saving Scotland from the SNP who they will say would have let us walk into a no deal Brexit
      SNP are smart as well, they know their enemy and make no mistake about it Englands Westminster are their enemy
      SNP have a plan as well
      They will let Englands Westminster go right to the bitter Brexit end before announcing when a Scottish independence referendum will take place
      Because to do otherwise allows Englands Westminster to change course just to sink the Scottish independence SNP ship before getting on with the rest of their journey to hell
      Westminster want to leave the EU
      They also want to end Scottish thoughts of independence
      They also want Northern Ireland to be quiet
      Englands Westminster are fighting on several front they are not stupid they are sneaky and cruel so don’t you ever ever forget that
      Trust the SNP they are your only chance of breaking free and getting Scottish independence
      Give your opinions criticise what you don’t agree with but always qualify it with a recital of your knowledge that SNP are the only chance you ,me, Scotland, have of getting Scottish independence
      It’s not perfect
      But it’s all we’ve got
      And that’s a fact

    132. mike cassidy says:

      jfngw 11.30

      I think the Nazi approach to encouraging the consumption of good old German food operated at a less ‘subtle’ level than food labelling!

      http://archive.is/WLJ3H

    133. Thepnr says:

      Journalist phones politician for comment on a story his paper want to run and it goes like this.

      Journalist: Thanks for agreeing to give us your opinion on this piece we’ll be running this Sunday. Very much appreciated.

      Politician: Not at all, not at all. I’m always happy to talk to those that want to get the truth out there, you know with all this fake news and stuff about it’s better that you get it straight from the horses mouth as it were.

      Journalist: It’s always nice to talk to you and getting the truth out there is very very important as you say and we appreciate your help. Anyway what I wanted to ask was your opinion of this recently announced SNP initiative that would prevent the SNP from sanctioning people on welfare without there first being a right of appeal to an independent body. Your views?

      Politician: Well, eh well I suppose it depends on what they’re being sanctioned for… I mean some people don’t really deserve welfare payments, far too many on welfare…

      Journalist: But politician it seems like this new initiative has popular support in Scotland, wouldn’t you agree that it could prove to be unaffordable.

      Politician: Absolutely I agree that it is unaffordable, after all hard working people don’t pay their taxes just so people can avoid sanctions. I mean isn’t that what food banks are there for so when they’re sanctioned they can still get food?

      Journalist: Yes, but as for the SNP do you think they would be better off sticking with the day job and that this initiative will ultimately prove to be unworkable because of the bureaucracy?

      Politician: This new initiative by the SNP will prove to be nothing more than a bureaucratic headache for those running the services and on top of that it is completely unaffordable in these difficult times that we are all in together. You can quote me on that.

      Sunday Rag Headline:

      Politician claims new SNP initiative is “unaffordable and a bureaucratic headache”

      Job done, easy peasy.

    134. Thepnr says:

      Journalist on the telly: Wouldn’t you agree as some critics say…
      🙂

    135. Martin Edmunds says:

      Lots of comments on this subject so I’m sure this one will get lost in the crowd lol

      I watched in disbelief as unionist politicians and commentators trotted out the Sturgeon using the Irish troubles for political leverage rubbish.
      Perhaps they would have been better asking why this ‘partnership of nations’ is treating one partner differently from another. The answer always given to the SNP when it brings up how Scotland voted is ‘it was a UK vote, suck it up’ .. well, it was a UK vote for N Ireland as well, so if they are indeed part of the UK then they should have to ‘suck it up’ too and the fact that they have a history of slaughtering each other shouldn’t be a factor in the slightest, not of it means them getting preferential treatment to what will clearly be the detriment of Scotland.

      Don’t get me wrong, I would be horrified if Ulster returned to the bomb and the bullet … But if ever a situation proved that this so called United Kingdom of equals is anything but and for its own sake Scotland has to leave it as soon as possible, this is it.

    136. Thepnr says:

      My mistake, too many SNP’s in that paragraph 🙁

      Anyway what I wanted to ask was your opinion of this recently announced SNP initiative that would prevent the DWP from sanctioning people on welfare without there first being a right of appeal to an independent body. Your views?

      I’m sure you got the gist.

    137. yesindyref2 says:

      Newspapers do have to write articles about what crass politicians like Mundell say, as the Herald on Sunday has, but it’s a bit of a shame when failed politicians have to quote 2 day old extreme newspaper headlines as though it’s their own opinion.

      Ah well, back to the recorded rugby, after the disappointment of watching the Scotland game live, with a very difficult South African defence we couldn’t just get on top of this time.

    138. defo says:

      Come come. We’re all forgetting the SNLA.
      I’m sure they blew up a bus shelter out by Torphicen ..nearly

      Loved the artwork
      🙂

    139. Thepnr says:

      The armchair pundit terrorists. Sorted your headline for you.

    140. Dr Jim says:

      *News* papers very rarely ever report news anymore they state opinions and demand reaction to their own opinions

    141. Shane Fraser says:

      It is a sad, very sad time to be Scottish .. Scottish Scot, a Scot knowing his or her history, a person knowing his or her loyalty to a sense of worth, knowing emphatically you stand up straight, with shoulders broad and wide with confidence, nae feart .. ‘Fealty to his or her cultural place of being born and upraised, a sense of knowing what is truth or shite.

      SCOTTISH, SCOTLAND, SCOTCH … WE ARE WHAT WE ARE .. independent !

    142. John Thomson says:

      May and Corbyn to appear live on Sky at 0900hrs this morning

    143. John Thomson says:

      Theresa May it is all about immigration if she wins brexit it will be seen by her as compensation for her failure to reduce immigration during her time as Home Secretary.

    144. frogesque says:

      The British Nationalist establishment’s trump card will be Charlie and Camilla’s coronation.

      We have been played and softened up to accept it for years. What-ho, jolly wheeze, Rule Britannia and all those merry Englandy jingos!

    145. Dorothy Devine says:

      Frogesque, you have just depressed me utterly – basically because I think you are not wrong.

    146. Dorothy Devine says:

      And we have a couple of right rule brittania funeral to anticipate too.

    147. Kangaroo says:

      Dorothy @ 8:21am

      Great I love a Royal Funeral.?????

    148. Dorothy Devine says:

      Kanga , you just cheered me up!

    149. Golfnut says:

      @Frogesque

      That would be the time for the people of Scotland to tell them, if Charles wants to be Crowned King of Scots, that it will only happen in here in Scotland.

    150. robertknight says:

      Always thought that our beloved Union wasn’t averse to a bit of ‘False Flag’ shenanigans in Scotland as/when required.

      After all, with a sympathetic media and decades of experience in NI, the UK Security & Intelligence Services have amassed a great deal of know-how in the art of dirty tricks and how to use others to do your ‘dirty work’.

      If the pollsters had shown Yes to be consistently >50% in 2014, I’ve a hunch that the SNLA, or those claiming to be such, would have suddenly appeared on the scene with a wholly predictable impact on the Yes movement and its appeal to the wider electorate.

    151. Sinky says:

      Michael Clackin showing his hatred of the SNP in Sunday Times Business pages

    152. Ken500 says:

      Part of Ireland has been Independence since 1923 and does much better than the North and the UK. Even with the vast subsidies to NI. The Westminster imbecile criminals caused the trouble in Ireland. They illegal partitioned Ireland. Broke every Law in the book. Broke UK/International. UK Law is still not enforced in NI by a minority bunch of unionists. Ripping off the people in NI for votes in Westminster. DUP 200,000 votes. NI pop 1.8Million.

      Power sharing has still not been re introduced because of DUP intransigence. The Tory NI Secretary knows nothing of Irish politics. history or geography and has admitted it. Journalists are the same. Most appear to know nothing but pontificate in ignorance.

      It was the whole of Ireland that wanted Home Rule/Independence. No wonder. The mass Home Rule movement in the 19C was led by Protestant landowners. Like Charles Stewart Parnell. They were the only ones with any rights. The Catholics, the majority, were denied rights. It was a mass movement of all people. The land league representatives were voted into power at Westminster. Only then were changes being made.

      In Belfast up until the 1960’s. Catholics were denied the vote in local elections. Bernadette Devliin. The unionists in NI used freemasonry to gain all the public jobs, public houses etc and empoverished and alienated the Catholic community. Handshakes, nods and winks. The secret society. It still goes on. UJ and mass disturbances going on the 12th of July. Public disorder. A disgrace. Sectarianism has destroyed their economy. Backed up by Westminister unionists for support and illegal funding. Bribes. Breaking UK/International Law.

    153. wull2 says:

      During my brain downtime I usually give it a question. (Dreams)

      Last nights question, Why was Scotland not mentioned.

      This morning, my downtime analysis.
      Someone has suggested that WM cannot tell Scotland what to do, especially when the people of Scotland have already gave its answer.

      vote SNP/SNP or YES. nothing else.

    154. Ottomanboi says:

      Re Scotland and violence, the post Union century was pretty violent. All that ‘quelling’ of dissent, military occupation and dividing, butchering and ruling.
      Unionists are purblind on such historical matters. The colonialised ‘mind’ was ever such.

    155. Giving Goose says:

      I read a twitter feed recently comparing the current UK situation to Yugoslavia on it’s road to the break up.
      Yugoslavia rapidly unravelled and it seemed to come from nowhere and happen fast.
      There are similarities with the current situation. Multi ethnic state breaks up.

    156. Nana says:

      https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/washington-opposes-un-resolution-syrias-israeli-occupied-golan-793042012

      Big Theresa’s besties
      http://archive.is/VsrfM

      There’s no money for the homeless, no money for benefits, no money to feed the poor.
      Plenty money for weapons
      https://www.rt.com/uk/444109-uk-f-35-aircraft-spending/

      I wonder if anyone has told Lidington
      http://archive.is/XuekY

    157. Breeks says:

      For those who don’t follow the popcrap on TV, Captain Jack John Barrowman and his delinquent Scottish accent are both going into the jungle for this years I’m a Celebrity Get Me Out of Here.

      This is time travelling John Barrowman who had no vote because he lives in space but still came out for Better Together and describes Alex Salmond as the Pudding of the Chieftain Race. According to Barrowman, we are narrow minded hate mongers seeking Scottish Independence for reasons of “nostalgia and nonsense”…. says the time travelling swinger from space.

      That’s fightin’ talk from a gobshite narcissist who’s about to revive his stalled career by eating kangaroo penis and crocodile arseholes, where even the poor dismembered crocodile might leave the scene with more serene integrity than Barrowman will.

      Come on Scotland… you know what to do. 😉

      It’s the little things that make life worth living….

    158. Golfnut says:

      @ Wull2.

      Yep, 3 times.
      By referendum
      By majority vote at Holyrood
      By majority vote at Westminster.

      All that guff about not needing permission is just that guff. They rely on an ignorant, misinformed population.
      Smoke and mirrors.

    159. John Thomson says:

      So far on sky no mention of devolution or any other country other than midlands and the north. Corbyn totally lost as usual now for May

    160. John Thomson says:

      So far on sky no mention of devolution or any other country other than midlands and the north. Now for May

    161. Breeks says:

      The difference between a bad deal Brexit and a no deal Brexit is that the senile UK might be looked after in the EU’s retirement home for defunct Nations who can’t cope anymore, or be forced to live a feral life outside in the cold raking the dustbins for lucrative Free Trade Deals.

    162. Undeadshuan says:

      The only political vilonce has been by uk government with the most recent political violence in Scotland being the original black friday, in battle of george square in glasgow, when tanks were deployed against striking workers.

    163. Haggishunter says:

      I would be very surprised if M15 are not already working with extremist unionists, orange order hard liners and the cretinous elements of the non family friendly football club.
      The yoon extremists have already started targeting Indy activists, photographing their homes as a means of intimidation. We know of one from the village of inverkeillor near Arbroath who is active with this method.
      The way the government will play the next stage is to actively support yoon violence while reporting it as trouble between unionists and nationalists.
      They already did this on non Indy night in George square.

    164. John Thomson says:

      1 hour of my life now confirms only solution to brexit is independence as if I didn’t know

    165. James Westland says:

      Haggishunter @09:49

      Wouldnt surprise me at all. Or to have some sorts of agents provocateur purporting to be “nationalists” threatening or actually committing acts of violence.

      I would argue that the threat to the regime is greater now than it was in 2014 (they are threatened on two fronts – Scotland and Ireland) and they will stop at nothing to preserve their “precious union”

      Be vigilant. And peaceful.

    166. Footsoldier says:

      8:43am @Sinky
      “Michael Glackin showing his hatred of the SNP in Sunday Times Business pages”

      I could not agree more. I quite like the Sunday Times but I am on the verge of giving it up because of Michael Glackin’s almost weekly diatribe against the SNP. There is no objectivity in his writing he is in great angst at Nicola Sturgeon and today’s piece simply allows his bitterness to show through which is clear to see in every sentence, he simply cannot stop himself. The classic SNP=bad.

      Some of the things he says are true but there is never anything positive with lots of irrelevant sneaky comments thrown in. Regardless of party, most people in Scotland except political pundits, can see the SNP government is running Scotland pretty well in difficult circumstances, especially when you consider the alternatives, which is why they have been re-elected for over 10 years. The media excepted, going about daily like one does not really hear many comments about how awful everything is under the SNP given many services are a lot better than in England.

      If the Sunday Times wants to keep all of its readers it ought to review what is being said and how demeaning some of it is. Not for one second am I suggestion problems be swept under the table but there has to be balance.

    167. Nana says:

      At noon

      On the Full Scottish this week, Corri Wilson is joined by guests Professor John Robertson and Lisa Peebles to discuss all the big events in the week’s news.
      https://www.broadcastingscotland.scot/full-scottish-18-11-2018/

    168. Ken500 says:

      Charles and Camilla could finish the Royalty off. The latest reinvention not consistent with past actions. Sweet auld granda. Look what happened to the mother. Killed off. Bleating about their ‘mummy’ but killing others off. Sanctionig and starving them.

      The Tory Royals just can’t stop meddling. Could have repercussions, The biggest consumers in the planet lecturing everyone else. They are supposed to be non biased and keep out of political affairs. There are always meddling and giving their views. Involved in illegal wars. ‘Let then eat cake’.

      People are being sanctioned and starved while the establishment exploited their position on public funding, Tax evading The Royals taxed evaded for years to amass a fortune, Charles gets £20Million a year and pays £2Million in tax. 10%. It costs £400Million to keep them. In palaces and expensive gear, cars etc.

      Victoria was German. Her mother was German and her husband was German. The British/European royal family caused the 1WW. Inter rivalries. Victoria’s grandchildren. Cousins married cousins. Inbred. The ‘divine right to rule’. The impoverished population. The British royal family backed down. The only reason they survived. Gave up rights. Millions died. Even more died from illness, Spanish flu and starvation. One of the worst tragedies to hit the world. 100 years ago.

      The British State seems to celebrate instead of commemorate. Some people making money out of it. The Royals should apologise. Not get involved in illegal wars while trying to appear like saviours. There is no democracy at the end of a bayonet. Give aid and support. Do not invade illegally. It just makes matters worse. It has caused the worst migration since the 11WW. The European countries have to pick up the pieces and try and sort out the mess. A massive horrendous task. The inhumanity caused by the UK/US (France).

      The Tories would not even take in 30,000 orphaned children. From the mess they have caused. Evel bastards, The absolute shambles in the world they have caused. They are trying to ruin the world economy while lining their pockets with illicit public money. They are a complete disaster. Running around in darkened cars. Fences off from the public. What a bunch of totally useless bastards. Every word they utter is a lie. How much longer can this farce stagger on?

      The Westminster unionist politicians are now trying to take the UK out of the EU when the majority want to stay. The whole farce is a total waste of time and money. Austerity is a disaster. They are cutting public services while revenues have increased. Trying to cut essential services NHS/Education/Welfare £13Billion a year. Impoverishing millions,.

      The tax revenues raised has increased £95Billion a year. £533Billion 2015/16 – £628Billion 2016/17 There was absolutely no need for austerity. It has cost more. Taken funds from the poorer and increased wealth for the richer. A more divided society. The more equal and inclusive is a society means the more happy and cohesive it becomes. Good public services are important. Good education and healthcare are essential for a skilled, equal, happy society..

      The UK has one of the highest inequality wealth gaps in the world and one of the highest debt ratios. Scotland has no debt because it can borrow very little. It has to live within it’s means. Any debts accured are from Westminster policies. Most a disaster for Scotland. What do they care? They do not live here and care even less.

      The Tories have been illegally cutting the Scottish budget every year. While tax revenues have been increasing, From £54Billion (without Oil) to £60Billion. The Tories have cut the Scottish budget 10% a year since 2010. £3Billion less. They have ruined the Oil & Gas sector with Illegal high Tory taxes (when the price is lower). 40% since Jan 2016.

      The Tories have ruined the fishing industry. No Scottish representation. Allowing dead fish being thrown back for years. Depleting stocks. Instead of improved terms and conditions. The Tories have taken £Millions in CAP payments intended for Scottish farmers.and given it to wealthier farmers in the south.

      Illegal wars, Trident, tax evasion and financial fraud from Westminster costs Scotland. Paying loan repayments on debt not borrowed or spent in Scotland but spent elsewhere. The Barnett Formula fraud, Scotland has never been subsidied but has been fleeced of funds and resources secretly and illegally, since 1928 and before. Iraq, Lockerbie and Dunblane kept secret for 100 years.

    169. Ken500 says:

      The Sunday? Times admitted Scotland would be better off Independent during the IndyRef campaign. Murdoch at it again telling lies.

    170. jfngw says:

      Good to see that Richard Leonard thinks Scotland is too and too poor and will not be able to run its own country without the overseeing hand of Westminster. If he ever gains power I expect he intends to keep it that way.

      A southern financed jumped up union rep, his priority is not Scotland.

    171. galamcennalath says:

      ” Independence may not yet have majority support, but for many unaligned voters it is far from the unthinkable prospect it once was “

      https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2018/11/brexit-turning-scottish-politics-snp-s-favour

    172. jfngw says:

      So the Scotsman owners join what I like to think of as the BHS brand principle. Get out before the shit hits the fan, make sure you keep your yacht, dump all you creditors and screw your pension recipients. It’s the British way of business.

      This administration was very short lived, you could think it was always the plan and the buyer was sitting ready and waiting!

      If the content remains the same, its new future will suspect resemble its past. Maybe this is just the start of a continuous spin cycle.

    173. Ghillie says:

      Aren’t The Times, Torquil Crichton, Kenny Farquharson, David Torrance and the rest in danger of being reported to the police for inciting violence in their own sneeky back-handed way?

      What with them being such respected journalists and all.

    174. Dr Jim says:

      Offensive Tory twerp Andrew Marr says to Scotlands FM *when are you going to have the *GUTS* to call a second independence referendum

      Prior to that on radio Scotland to Gordon Brewer Lesley Riddoch says *That’s the whole point of considering Scotlands Independence so we don’t have to keep waiting around accepting what Westminster decides for us*

      Andrew Marr didn’t care a jot what the FM said and Gordon Brewer didn’t care a jot about what Lesley Riddoch said because all they care about is what their masters in London say then ask what Scotland is going to do about it afterwards

      And that’s the whole point of and Independent Scotland, NOT having to wait for London to decide what happens to us

    175. Golfnut says:

      @ Ken 500

      The ‘ glorious English revolution ‘ of 1688 effectively killed off any chance of the royals being blamed for catastrophic and incompetent government. They rent their sovereignty to Westminster. That doesn’t apply to the Scottish bit though.

    176. Tinto Chiel says:

      @Breeks 9.24: in your admirable potted history of Pottit Heid John Barrowman you omitted his 2014 MBE, officially for services to light entertainment and chariddy work but I’m sure others will draw their own conclusions re reasons.

      I’m sure the gong will have pride of place on his L.A. mantlepiece.

      If souls are up for auction, as Bobby Gillespie sang, some folk are bought awfie cheap.

    177. Tony O"neill says:

      Imo, if any one thinks that England won’t secretly turn to violent means to stop independence is at best nieve. If you don’t think that they would,just look at their track record through out history. The golden goose that is Scotland, will not be allowed to fly the coop, by whatever means necessary.

    178. HYUFD says:

      Ken 500 Unlikely, 68% of British voters think the monarchy is good for Britain according to a 2015 poll, including even 61% of 18 to 24 year olds and 57% of Labour voters and 55% of Scots.
      Brits as a whole prefer a constitutional monarchy to an elected Head of State by 71% to 18% and Scots prefer a constitutional monarchy to an elected Head of State by 52% to 34%.

      https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/7cnsndq71a/InternalResults_150904_Monarchy.pdf

      Support for the royal family is about the one thing most of us can agree on at the moment even if Charles will be less popular than his mother his sons are just as popular if not more so. Plus plenty of well run countries from Sweden to Japan have a constitutional monarch as Head of State

    179. Sinky says:

      Worth noting in Herald on Sunday Alex Salmond’s former chauffeur com bodyguard saying that he was rarely far away from the former First Minister and never saw any inappropriate behaviour at Edinburgh Airport.

    180. HYUFD says:

      Charles also has done a lot of good work over the years drawing attention to the need to tackle climate change and promoting recycling and getting young people skills and jobs through the Prince’s Trust

    181. robertknight says:

      An interesting read that partly lifts the veil…

      Britain’s Secret War – Tartan Terrorism and the Anglo-American State.

      Iain MacLeay; Andrew Murray Scott

      Mainstream Publishing, 1990

      ISBN 10: 1851583130
      ISBN 13: 9781851583133

      …and a handy ‘stocking-filler’ for next month, if you can get hold of one.

    182. Iain mhor says:

      @Giving Goose 9:05am

      Aye that’s the new narrative isn’t.
      Yugoslavia was an ethnocentric race war whipped up by extremists and militia. It hardly had the support of the populations involved or it wouldn’t have ended so quickly.
      The Balkanisation narrative is so much right wing onanism.
      Strache, Dodik, Bannon, Putin all fomenting another insurrection and the other far right parties across Europe are piling on.
      It was the delight of the extreme right in Europe in the 90’s and as such it is the utter orgasm for the far right today – ergo ecstasy for the media. Sectarianism, Balkanism, far right nationalism all bad and we can now just drop Scotland, Independence and the SNP Natzis straight into the narrative.

      It’s so easy to do, you can read the agitating and comparisons here below the line.

    183. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Absolutely virtuoso performance from Ruth Wishart with Gordon Brewer on Sunday Politics Scotland

    184. Cubby says:

      Britnats lie and they lie all the time. The biggest liars are of course the Britnat Tories.

      The new Brexit Minister (kwasi) says with a lot of confidence on the Marr show this morning that if labour get in to power the national debt will RISE to a trillion pounds. The debt was a trillion in 2010 and is now over £1.7 trillion. He was not corrected by anyone on the show.

      Totally ignorant Minister or pants on fire liar.

      We will only get decent politics with independence. We will only get a decent media with independence.

      In addition the case of the girl with mad cow disease was aired who was requested to attend for a work capability assessment and had her benefits stopped due to universal credit. The UN report on the UK deliberately killing people as a result of choice by austerity not economic necessity while giving tax cuts to the rich was also mentioned.

      The Tories are monsters. Being liars is well down the list of their crimes.

      Yes that’s you Toryboy troll on Wings.

    185. Peter Thomson says:

      All these, lack of violence complaints could be solved as follows:

      Torquil, Torrance et al have a draw.
      The winner gets a Timsoning from the others.
      The rest write articles, pump stories on BBC Scotchland about violent cybernats attacking the unfortunate Unionist journalist, to their ever decreasing readership and listeners
      Their conditions for a differentiated deal for Scotland are now met.

      We get a “buy one, get one free” solution.

      Now; how do we get them to shoot themselves in the foot, once again?

    186. Ottomanboi says:

      Re Monarchy, the British as a whole are not as politically sophisticated as their ‘continental’ neighbours. Most despatched monarchy considering it the apotheosis of class privilege. In the UK class, rank, status etc are systemic and it seems the majority think it a good thing, ironically attributing stability and continuity to it. The great lie of exceptionalism generated by the indefatigable myth making machine.
      Scotland needs to shed this closeted, insular British way of thinking. Our own socio-cultural history takes us in a totally different and essentially ‘European’ intellectual direction.

    187. galamcennalath says:

      Just watched Nicola on Marr on iPlayer. I hadn’t realised she was on.

      Sparkly clarity, as always, from Nicola.

      Marr continually trying to interrupt because she wasn’t giving the answers he wanted.

      Also, all the questions were framed around the narrative May want people to believe. The whole point is her narrative is very likely to be shredded shortly. It’s not the place of BBC interviewer to shore up May crap. Or is it?

      I used to have some respect for Marr, but he’s an establishment lackie these days. He has taken on board the official government line and tries to defend and support it. Well, maybe that is the role of the BBC after all.

    188. DerekM says:

      Hmm interesting things happening today can anyone tell me when westminster goes on Christmas holiday i have a feeling their turkeys will get spoiled this year.

      Is this the right time the more i think about it the more i think yea it is the right time,the perfect time.

    189. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      I liked Ruth Wisharts take on Jeremy Corbyn’s position(if it can actually be found)
      “The indecision is final”

    190. Doreen A Milne says:

      Any chance of using a Cairns caricature of DTorrance. His face makes me cringe. Great piece.

    191. Frank Gillougley says:

      DMH
      11.38

      Does anyone have a link to this Ruth Wishart and Brewer interview?

    192. IZZIE says:

      OMG How did the voters in Angus get such a EMPTY headed bimbo as an MP?

    193. Iain mhor says:

      @Ottomanboi 12:01pm
      I give you – Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Lichtenstein, Luxembourg, Monaco, Vatican, Netherlands, Belgium and Spain.
      But yes of EU members “most” do not have a monarchy (just over half) but it’s a helluva stretch to imply the idea of monarchy has been extirpated from the minds of the “Educated Europeans”
      Your remaining Austro-Hungarian and French retain monarchy and imperialism as very much a part of their historic culture. The castles, palaces and residencies are not cooncil offices and car-parks.
      There us no great European Political sophistication. It just appears that way from a distance and compared to the shit-for-brains we put up with in the little goldfish bowl of the UK. How sophisticated do you need to be extreme right wing? Extreme left wing, extreme anything. Not very. “Europe has a plethora of that.
      It’s the duality you see. The human race isn’t that sophisticated. It’s really just those who are happy with a peaceful life and those who like to kick the shit out of everything.

    194. winifred mccartney says:

      I hope everyone who was offended by Andrew Marr’s questioning of the FM ‘if she had the guts to call another indy ref’ will complain to the BBC.

      It is only SNP guests on these programmes who are treated with contempt. The body language, the interruptions, and the aggression is a disgrace to the presenters and the BBC.

      It is now well beyond a joke/opinion it is crystal clear.

    195. manandboy says:

      SNP voting intention of 4% casually but with malice, omitted by Panelbase. The suppression of Scotland by England never ceases.

      Westminster voting intention:

      CON: 40%
      LAB: 40%
      LDEM: 8%
      UKIP: 5%
      GRN: 3%

      via @Panelbase, 02 – 07 Nov
      First w/ pollster since 2017

    196. ahundredthidiot says:

      Build up to a new operation gladio?

      desperate times, desperate people.

      Hope I’m wrong.

    197. galamcennalath says:

      ” Theresa May tells rebels threatening a leadership challenge they may delay or stop Brexit “

      That sounds like an offer which would be difficult to turn down!

      As the saying goes, ‘is that a threat or a promise’?

      https://news.sky.com/story/theresa-may-tells-rebels-threatening-a-leadership-challenge-they-may-delay-or-stop-brexit-11557192

    198. K1 says:

      Has anyone considered that the US NRA will want a slice of the UK market post Brexit? Nothing will be off limits…can ye imagine importing ‘gun culture’ to our country and what that could do to ours.

      Just a thought.

    199. jfngw says:

      I don’t mind the media’s treatment of the SNP, I think it actually helps us and shows them for what they are in Scotland. Those elsewhere in the UK might think they are being fair but we can see the difference in approach.

      Also Nicola Sturgeon I suspect knows the treatment she i going to receive and is well prepared to deal with them. Just compare her to Ruth Davidson who at the least hint of a difficult question goes into meltdown and then opts for another PR stunt to bolster her image. Or May who is only capable of reciting preprepared cliché’s and seems to have difficulty even with the simplest enquiry, who can forget the fields of wheat nonsense. Or Corbyn the man that wants to be all things to all people, a Brexiteer and a Remainer combined in a single paradox of confusion.

    200. HYUFD says:

      Cubby Yet unemployment at 4% is half that of the 8% it was in 2010 and the deficit is down to £52 billion compared to £144 billion in 2010. If supporting that makes me a ‘monster’ in your eyes then so be it!

    201. HYUFD says:

      winifred mccartney Marr actually told Shami Chakrabarti from Labour not to ‘patronise him’ to his face and was also pretty contemptuous of Raab to

    202. HYUFD says:

      Ian Mhor Yes, Sweden, Denmark, Jordan, Canada, the UK, Australia, New Zealand, the Netherlands and Japan have constitutional monarchies. Venezuala, the USA, Russia, Poland, Italy, Greece, Brazil, Zimbabwe, Syria, Mexico and Venezuela have Presidents. Replacing a constitutional monarchy with a President does not always make you better governed

    203. Valerie says:

      Lots of folk complaining about Marr’s attitude to women. Those in south saying he treated two women (Sturgeon and Chakraborti) abomnibly, and let men just chunter away.

      One thing about last two years, it’s really woken people in England to the Beeb being a bullhorn for the gov’t, and presenters are happy to flash their misogyny or right wing credentials. Brillo has been under fire this week for his misogynistic harassment of Carole Cadwalldr.

      Magic Grampa Corbyn was utterly woeful on Ridge this morning, so the Corbynista Cargo Cult are out in force/farce. What a chanty wrassler.

    204. Petra says:

      ‘Mr Barclay formerly of Barclays now Brexit Prime Minister.’

      https://thoughtcontrolscotland.com/2018/11/16/mr-barclay-formerly-of-barclays-now-brexit-minister/

      …………………………

      The Royal family? When the Queen goes support will plummet and as to the next but one heir to the throne, Willie, he’s considered to be a parasitical layabout by many. As an example his Aunt Anne, aged 68, had to stand for hours saluting at the Remembrance Day march past as Queenie, Charlie, Willie and Harry jiggered off to god knows where to do God knows what. Stuff their faces with food and drink? Or maybe they were in their counting house counting out their money? Or is it ours?

    205. Valerie says:

      Last week, according to The Times, orders given to Army to step up their prep to work in support of Police, in event of No Deal, and civil unrest.

      There are approximately 100k of Army that can be called on immediately. Suspect they need to look at how quickly they can round up the rest, posted abroad.

      I watched an interview, I stumbled across on Sky, with a food retail guy, and I was rooted to the spot. He was going through the logistics of storing food, the best kind, with long storage etc., then spoke about “informal” rationing by all supermarkets for fresh items like milk. Limit customers to 3, rather than allow folk to panic buy a trolley full.

      It was eye watering.

    206. With all the madness going on in Westminster I recently joked that what we proles need is another royal wedding, just to keep our minds off the inevitable food queues, ration books and the military on the streets keeping order.

      I was joking, but there you are Princess Beatrice likely to get married within the next few months, bang on Brexit pretty much.

      You couldn’t make it up.

    207. Cubby says:

      The resident Britnat Toryboy troll happy to wear the cap of a monster. It fits well. Tories have no conscience, no morals – they truly are monsters. Political psychopaths.

      If we still had coal fires in Scotland they would be sending kids up chimneys to clean them and claiming a rise in employment. Tories also claim being employed includes jobs you don’t get paid for.

      Britnat Tories want to take us back to Victorian times – no welfare state and just poorhouses.

      Independence direction of travel – see Phantom power Norway film.

      Norway planning to spend £47 billion on major(incredible) road linking its coastline. Scotland pays for better roads/infrastructure in England while at the same time not having a 3 lane motorway between its two main cities Glasgow and Edinburgh.

      We are trapped in a Britnat Tory madhouse unless we get independence.

    208. Cubby says:

      Hair the Britnat Tory intellectual on the telly today pontificating about how she has read the 500 page Brexit document. Aye right – memorised a script prepared by someone else more like. 2 years ago she didn’t know enough about the EU to vote. Tory monsters come in all shapes, sizes and intellectual ability but monsters they are.

      Someone should tell her and the rest of the Scot Britnat Tories there is more to Scotland than fishing and waving the Union flag.

    209. Lenny Hartley says:

      HYUFD How much is the worth of assets that have been sold to give the impression that the annual deficit is down? How many of those assets can be resold to keep the magic money tree working 🙂
      You say that unemployed has been halfed since 2010, how many more are on zero hour contracts ? Do you think it is fair for somebody leaving home at 5 am and walking several miles to work because there is no public transport at that time only to be told when they arrive that they have enough workers for that day, so send home,with no pay, this has happened to them several times.
      This is the one and only time i will be responding to your pish.

    210. manandboy says:

      WE CAN’T GO ON LIKE THIS

      Scotland is awash with a soft and subtle, but crippling violence. It is to be seen first as a change in facial expression, as when a no voter discovers you are an independence supporter. There follows a shift in stance and a change of tone in the voice, which then becomes a change in the kind of words used, in the way you are treated. At this point it becomes clear that the no voter now considers you as both different and a threat.

      And the seed of conflict begins to germinate.

      Now for the really uncomfortable bit –

      This is exactly the same way as has been experienced by Catholics and the Irish for generations here in Bonnie Sectarian Scotland. Only much more so.

      Sectarianism and colonialism together poisoning national unity in Scotland, making English rule a walk in the park, and exploitation as easy as pie.

      Until now.

      Now is surely the time to move on, all of us, all sides, together, carefully and slowly, creating something new – a new Bonnie Scotland.
      Minus the hate, without the bigotry, no more discrimination, the prejudice gone, the fear, suspicion and mistrust all removed. All left behind. Not denying it. Just untying it and leaving it. And moving on.

      But only through Independence is all this doable.

      Right now is Scotland’s chance of a lifetime.

      We can have a much happier, healthier and wealthier society in a new Independent Scotland.

      Or we can apologise to the English for making such a stooshie, and turn round, shuffling away for a drink in the pub of low self-esteem. That will be right.

      Let’s make it happen. All of us.

    211. Dan Huil says:

      Rabid British nationalists, politicians and media thickos, would love to see violence breaking out in Scotland. They’ll probably instigate it.

      Meanwhile the SNP is right to keep pressing the point that if the north of Ireland can have a different deal with the EU, so can Scotland. Keep the pressure on the britnats.

    212. Terence callachan says:

      To HY FUD..

      You are laughable really, trying to defend preposterous behaviour by selfish Westminster politicians.
      You should think again about your automatic defence of people who are clearly and obviously in the wrong if you don’t want people to conclude that you are a fool.
      It’s good to state your views and discuss your beliefs but remember to respect people and don’t respect those that behave badly as you have done regularly on this website.
      Nicola Sturgeon knows what to expect from Marr, she is very good at keeping control of her behaviour much better than the likes of Marr and she is happy for Marr to lose control and behave like a buffoon on national television because it shows him up for what he is a red faced angry loser who knows his time is up, I’m sure he is already looking for somewhere to work after Scottish independence because he knows he only has the Marr show because he is willing to disrespect the country of his birth ,as if somehow that strengthens the British nationalists credibility in treating Scotland like trash.
      People have become enlightened and are shocked by the behaviour of Marr Dimbleby Bird etc their time is running short and they know it that’s why they are so angry all the time.
      England will be so small once it loses control of Scotland ,just have a look at it on the map ,also have a think about how the world sees England, most of the world call the whole island England ,once they see that it is less than half ,their opinion will change ,they will see England as the small country that is is.
      The British empire is over, it’s not coming back, it had to move to empirical finacial markets when it lost its landed empire but it is now about to lose its financial empire too and will have nowhere it can go to be an empire, it will just be , little England with a great history, a history written by itself, not necessarily true but well written.

    213. HYUFD says:

      Petra Prince Harry is now the most popular royal according to a poll this month on a 77% approval rating, ahead of the Queen on 74%, with Prince William just behind at 73%.

      Then comes the Duchess of Cambridge on 64%, Prince Philip at 56% and the Duchess of Sussex on 55%.

      Prince Charles had a 48% rating, just ahead of Princess Anne and her daughter Zara, then came Camilla was +26% followed by the Earl and Countess of Wessex and Beatrice and Eugenie and last was the Duke of York on 22%.
      https://travelworldnetwork.com/2018/11/14/this-is-the-most-popular-royal-according-to-new-poll/

    214. Iain mhor says:

      @Hyufd 100:pm
      Haha I think you may have the wrong end of the stick.
      Nothing about my post was endorsing Monarchy constitutional or otherwise. Even those European countries retaining a monarchy for cultural reasons, if their monarchies have any constitutional powers (most have none) their powers are severely curtailed by an actual constitution.

      I think you may believe the risible Government of these isles infested with Crown prerogative, Parliamentary sovereignty with no written constitution, unelected bishops and hereditary peers of the realm etc is the apotheosis of government for the people, Gawd Bless ’em all and good Queen Bess and thank ‘ee kindly for the shiny sixpence your lordship.
      All these other countries copy such a fine institution.
      No, no they don’t – not in any way shape or form.
      This country is the anachronism.

    215. HYUFD says:

      Cubby If the Tories wanted no welfare state they would follow the US or Italian or Eastern European or Far East model ie no welfare unless you have paid in or the US model of healthcare ie no state healthcare unless you are old or very poor unless you have insurance. Yet there are still non contributory unemployment benefits and a higher minimum wage under the Tories and £20 billion extra a year being put into the NHS

    216. HYUFD says:

      Lenny Hartley Apart from Royal Mail there have been few privatisations under this government, only about 1% are on zero hours contracts and some like students or mothers like them for their flexibility

    217. Giving Goose says:

      Re “continuity” from monarchy.
      If the one piece of “continuity” through the post WW2 period has been the monarchy then I’d be asking serious questions as to it’s role in the terminal post war decline of Britannia. If the monarchy was a cog in a permanently breaking machine, it would be removed.

    218. Cubby says:

      With regards to Britnat Marrs offensive comment ” when will you have the guts to call another indyref” it is clear that the thought of Nicola sitting on it and the Britnats not knowing when it will happen is stressing them out more than independence supporters. They are seriously worried – good – they should be.

    219. Referendum1707 says:

      Frogesque & Dorothy Devine

      What a load of tosh re the coronation of “Charlie & Camilla” being used as a distraction to dilute support for indy.

      People I know are a fairly diverse and differently opinionated lot and I don’t know One. Single. Person who has the slightest respect for them or interest in them.

      When, as I frequently do, I refer to the queen as “the Benefit Scrounger In Chief” it’s greeted with tacit agreement or something like indifference. I’ve never had anyone become offended.

      As for anti-Scottish propagandists – sorry “journalists” trying to stir up trouble in Scotland, ignore and keep calm and carry on putting the facts supporting the case for independence to the general public as much as and in any way you can.

      Post indy, then things would be different.

      Then, if they’re stupid and arrogant enough to hang around, then we could turn on them.

    220. HYUFD says:

      Terence Callachan If we decided power and influence based on landmass Canada would be the second powerful nation in the world, we don’t as it has half the population of the UK despite being the second largest nation in the world. Even on its own England would be the 7th largest economy in the world and a member of the G8 and G20, an independent Scotland would be in neither, about 80% of the UK population lives in England. England is not a superpower, nor is the UK and that has been the case since the British Empire, however while less powerful than the US and China England would be an upper medium sized power well in the top tier of the 190 or so independent nations in the world today

    221. HYUFD says:

      Ian Mhor We have a system of Parliamentary sovereignty that no Parliament can bind its successors and the monarch does not interfere with Parliamentary law making as has been the case since the Civil War and the Glorious Revolution

    222. Cubby says:

      The resident Britnat Tory psychopath shows his hand – what’s important to Tories – power and influence. Global Britain = mini Britnat EMPIRE 2. Get the aircraft carriers out there – a toy to bully others – Britnat Tory wet dream. Britnats upset because they cannot bully the EU.

      Terminate the Treaty of Union = UK no more.

    223. Can’t you just imagine, the deceiving, backstabbing, Gove, Raab, Mundell, Fox, Davis etc in Elizabeth 1st Court, in pantaloons?

    224. wull2 says:

      I wish some wingers would stop answering certain people, my finger is getting sore scrolling past certain posts.

      Vote SNP/SNP or YES, nothing else.

    225. Cubby says:

      Breeks@9.24am

      Never watch I’m a celebrity – not even when Dugdale was on it. But I might tune in to vote for Barrowman to do the tasks.

    226. Petra says:

      Dimbleby (Tory) interrupting Barry Gardiner, Labour, throughout the QT programme. Using the usual tactics to agitate the panel member to the point that he can’t answer the question.

      Claire Perry, Tory, ruling the roost throughout the programme with her behaviour exemplifying why the Tories are known as the nasty party.

      Check out Perry at 50 mins in.

      BBC Question Time 15/11/2018 Milford Haven

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAaVMCkmlL4

      …………………………………………………………..

      Polling statistics on the popularity of the Royals carried out in England, mainly, don’t count in Scotland.

    227. Dan Huil says:

      Westminster/England/the so-called united kingdom is/are without doubt a world-wide laughing stock.

      No ifs, but plenty of butts.

      “The stock in question isn’t like a pillory. It refers to the meaning of stock as ‘something solid that things can be fixed to’, that is, a butt or stump. So, ‘laughing-stock’ is just the same as ‘the butt of the joke’. [Phrase Finder]

      Scotland is right to be actively pursuing a course to end this sick joke of a union with England.

    228. Petra says:

      Nicola on Marr 20 mins in.

      ‘BBC The Andrew Marr Show 18/11/2018.’

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DiwAOZOp-eI

    229. frogesque says:

      @Referendum1707: 2.15

      Not suggesting that all the good folks in Scotland would welcome a coronation. Esp. if Camilla were to be titled queen.

      What would happen is the BBC, Mail, Express and all the other tawdry rags would keep Brexit off the news while they salivated over the royal family like a dog with a hot steak bridie.

      Christ, they only have to pop a sprog and the establishment machine goes into overdrive!

    230. heraldnomore says:

      Prince Harry the most popular ‘royal’ – that’s a hoot, and there’s him with nairy a drap o’ the Saxe-Coburg true red, white & blue in his veins.(allegedly)

      A hoo(wi)t indeed.

    231. Dr Jim says:

      Eh, England has never been an Independent nation that’s why they’re panicking now at the prospect of having no one else to steal from when Scotland goes and the EU and the rest of the world is shutting the gravy train door on Englands ambitions for Empire 2

      England has already been rejected by 20 countries for separate trade deals and they haven’t been able to creep in Europe’s back door although I hear there might be something big coming up in Andorra for some mountain dew in a tin

      Watch what happens on the London stock exchange running up to Christmas followed by folk jumping off buildings after
      and watch the price of Leccy England has to buy from elsewhere

      Aye London’s gonnae be great Ho Ho Ho

    232. geeo says:

      https://www.facebook.com/groups/zinjanthropus/permalink/1798886380238757/

      Interesting choice of words there.

      “Announce proposals for Scotlands independent future in the not too distant future”.

      As opposed to

      “announce proposals for a future indyref in the not too distant future”.

      That should get them thinking….hehe

    233. Petra says:

      Well worth a read.

      Interesting letter in the National:

      ”The 356-page New West of Scotland: Health Needs Assessment Report, compiled in March 2018, raises some interesting questions concerning a surge in death rates across the west of Scotland. The areas cited as being affected are the Forth Valley, Argyll & Bute, Ayrshire & Arran, and Dumfries & Galloway.

      All of the areas mentioned are in proximity to MoD military activity (nuclear), and a nuclear power station. In the case of the Forth Valley, we have decommissioned MoD nuclear submarines at Rosyth in the Firth of Forth, and secondary pollution from Grangemouth Refinery. In Argyll & Bute and Ayrshire & Arran, there is MoD Faslane nuclear submarine base, and a nuclear power station just along the coast from Largs.

      In Dumfries & Galloway we have the MoD Dundrennan Test Range, where uranium-tipped shells are fired. There is also Beaufort’s Dyke, a deep water trench off the south west coast of Scotland, where live munitions, including chemical and radioactive weapons waste, was dumped in very large quantities (thousands and thousands of tonnes) by the MoD. A large area of the Solway Firth is sectioned off by the MoD as a test area.

      I am not necessarily stating that an increase in death rates in the stated areas are a direct or indirect result of MoD activities involving nuclear and radioactive pollution, either air or water borne, or radioactive pollution from a nuclear power station, which can travel up and down the west coast in the sea currents, but is it a coincidence that ALL of the stated areas are in the critical MoD impact zones? The MoD do not have a good track of stopping radioactive pollution from their military sites. At the very least we should be considering what I have outlined as one possibility among many others.

      William C McLaughlin, Biggar

      …………………………………………………………………….

      And as I can’t find the West of Scotland: Health Needs Assessment Report online this is from the Herald on Sunday.

      ‘West of Scotland health riddle: the mystery surge in rural death rates – and it’s not down to ageing.’

      ”Sunbathers catch some rays in Luss, Argyll and Bute. But the area has experienced a mystery spike in its death rate.

      For decades the west of Scotland has been a byword for poor health, premature deaths and deprivation.

      The so-called ‘Glasgow effect’ became an enduring public health puzzle as researchers attempted to unravel why the city’s residents died earlier and in greater numbers than they should.

      But today a bombshell report leaked to the Herald on Sunday reveals a strange new trend in the region: a mysterious deterioration in the health of residents in the rural west of Scotland.”…

      http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/17208379.west-of-scotland-health-riddle-the-mystery-surge-in-rural-death-rates-and-its-not-down-to-ageing/

    234. Cubby says:

      Dr Jim@3.15pm.

      I have often said to English Britnats why can England not just stand on its own two feet like most other countries and stop going about looting other countries resources. The look on their faces is magic. It often looks like their brain is in overload as it tries to comprenhend something they have never considered before. Their brains are full of all the nonsense churned out by Britnat propaganda that they go around everywhere acting like some sort of Santa Claus handing out money to the less fortunate countries.

    235. Ottomanboi says:

      Dissolving the Union would not necessarily entail the end of monarchy in Scotland as the SNP has a membership and leadership which displays varying degrees of monarchist sympathies suggestive of belief in the concept of ‘continuity’ after independence. Frightening the horses is not in the SNP style.
      However, for those seeking a complete break with the old Unionist order a republic, a popular sovereignty democracy not a so-called parliamentary, English type democracy, outwith the anachronistic British Commonwealth, is surely the only rational choice.

    236. Legerwood says:

      Keep hearing – 7th largest economy in the world.
      Never hear: 25th in terms of GDP per capita. (IMF, WORLD BANK, and CIA lists). The UK’s GDP per capita is on a par with New Zealand

      Ireland is 5th in world in terms of GDP per capita. The GDP per capita is almost double that of the UK. Ireland Has had an annual trade surplus every year since 1990.

      Check out the stats here on any country you like:
      https://atlas.media.mit.edu/en/profile/country/irl/

    237. Petra says:

      Why is BBC Scotland not informing the Scots on ANYTHING of importance, in particular when our health and lives are at risk? Thank God for the National newspaper.

      The BBC (and STV) is a bl**dy disgrace!!!!!!!

      ‘Revealed: More than 500 nuclear safety incidents at Faslane.’

      http://www.thenational.scot/news/17231086.revealed-more-than-500-nuclear-safety-incidents-at-faslane/?ref=mr&lp=9

      ……………………………………………………..

      Wee Leonard from Yorkshire, Corbyn’s right hand man in Scotland, wants the Scots who voted to remain in the EU, by a majority, go down the stank with England.

      ‘Richard Leonard claims Scottish independence worse than Brexit.’

      http://www.thenational.scot/news/17231678.richard-leonard-claims-scottish-independence-worse-than-brexit/?ref=mr&lp=1?c=x43fx20

      ………………………………………………………………………

      Alyn Smith SNP MEP: ‘Why there’s not a single mention of Scotland in May’s Brexit deal.’

      http://www.thenational.scot/news/17231100.why-theres-not-a-single-mention-of-scotland-in-mays-brexit-deal/?ref=mr&lp=6

      ………………………………………………………..

      ‘In memory of the most dangerous man in Britain – John Maclean.’

      http://www.thenational.scot/news/17230210.in-memory-of-the-most-dangerous-man-in-britain-john-maclean/?ref=mr&lp=4

    238. Nana says:

      Maybe this will give us all something to ponder

      http://indyref2.scot/nicola-sturgeon-signals-no-indyref2-without-westminster-backing

      The link to the WFI conference was provided by me on Saturday, check back to The threatened member thread for the link

    239. Ken500 says:

      The Deficit is down the debt is up. The grabs PPI scheme HS2 and Hinkley Point on Chinese borrowed money is the biggest waste of money. The Tory Slush Fund. Cameron us in on it. Still wasting public money while he fleeces it for £Millions.

      The Tories are trying to cut £13Billion a year from essential services from 2015 to 2020. Eduction/NHS/Welfare. The only money going in is to avert the intended cuts. Austerity was absolutely unnecessary. The tax revenues are up £95Billion.

      Unemployment is lower in Scotland than the rest of the UK. The first time ever, because of Devolution and the SNP Gov, With Independence Scotland could have full employment and £Billions in reserves. Instead of Scottish revenues and resources being taken illegally and secretly by the Westminster Treasury to prop up unionist shambolic Government.

      The Brexit scandal is another example. Another total mess imposed in Scotland by people not voted for in Scotland. The lying unionists. Paid by London.HQ’s to try to ruin the Scottish economy. Lie, after lie, after lies

      BBC overpaid prima donnas who think they are the story, Most of them should have been retired years ago. Tax evading scoundrels. Employed by Westminster to ruin the world economy. Endorsing killing and maim millions of people. They scantion and starve people illegally.

      Elected to protect NHS, Education they cut both and attacked the vulnerable, Dirty, dangerous liars. Wicked beyond belief.

    240. Macart says:

      Huh! So that’s what happens when you don’t read for a couple of days. Righto.

      N.I. is part of the UK. Scotland (regrettably) is still part of the UK. If a differential status is acceptable and doable for one nationality? It therefore follows, it is doable for another. Also, they’re no great shakes at history. Who knew?

      Then there is the question of reality. It is absolutely beyond question that the populations of the United Kingdom are facing a long term period of seismic political, economic and societal change and hardship.

      These changes have been brought about by a system and practice of politics the … gentlemen… above the line apparently advocate. They certainly spent no small amount of effort on their respective soap boxes attempting to convince/intimidate the electorate before, during and after indyref of the benefits (sick laugh) of retaining the stewardship of the UK parliament and system. They’ve equally spent a great deal of time letting folk know what they think about the current Scottish government. Some folk would call it holding to account I’m sure. (Its a great catch all phrase that.) Some would call it something else entirely. You pays your money etc.

      What is absolutely without doubt is that the mainstream media and its collective punditariat are no friends of the Scottish government, the YES movement, or Scottish self determination. That they and the narrative they created, played an enormous part in swaying enough of the vote four years ago to deny a pro indy result. That we are where we are today in no small part thanks to their efforts. How’s that working out for everyone d’you think?

      Folk need to ask themselves. Do we really need to listen to any more of their advice? Or should we mibbies look again at the advantages of self government?

      It’s maybe time to really listen to the other side of the debate.

      Worth a thought.

    241. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      HYUFD at 12.55

      There you go again. You think we are all stupid and believe a deficit is a debt.
      You cut a deficit by planning to cut your expenditure or by not paying your debts.
      Of course UK’s deficit is cut – but that is why its debt has doubled to just under £2,000,000,000,000.

      The chancellor however has just abandoned cutting expenditure so we can expect the deficit to start to rise again.

      Since the time of Gordon Brown we have had a succession of chancellors who don’t understand economics.

    242. Confused says:

      Past few days been really fucking dull – we were all keyed up – “somethings gonna happen” – all we have now is a bunch of tories with knives in their hands, whistling dixie … in any good tory stabbing, it is always the FIRST to plunge the blade who gets the BLAME for it, like Heseltine with Thatcher.

      I skimmed the brexit draft the other night in around 90 minutes. Made some rough notes – but its all just a load of boring shit really, with sod-all detail about what is happening. Looks mostly like a capitulation to the EU – theres masses of EU law the UK will continue to abide by, and it will continue to pay money. The transition period can be extended to – not a typo – 20XX – yes, X-fucking-X. Many of you I expect will have had to plough through official documents stuffed with TBD N/A N/K see another doc … and you realise no one has done the work or knows whats happening.

      One curiosity tho – loads of stuff about EURATOM – and you think why? Reading between the lines here, it looks like the EU doesn’t trust the UK on nuclear safety very much at all – which brings on the interests of Willie-2-shots-Macrae – and the comment by Petra just above. Never buy property on ex-MOD land.

      Of course the Windscale fire in the 50s could have screwed Ireland a lot worse than Cromwell ever did – not forgotten.

    243. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Nana at 3.55

      “The comments will be seen by many as confirmation that the current mandate, won in the 2016 Holyrood election, will not be implemented.”

      I don’t see Nicola’s statement (reported om Indyref2) gives any such confirmation. She merely acknowledges that the UK may be hard to deal with which I think we are all aware of.The present legal processes we are involved in are an illustration that we are doing something about it.

    244. Gary says:

      But these very same ‘journalists’ have been stoking the flames of sectarian hate to attempt to ‘Ulsterise’ Scottish politics since some time in late 2012!

      I recall an article in ‘The Telegraph’ which was one of the first English papers to even write an article on the then upcoming Indy vote. They portrayed it, openly, as being Sectarian and openly mentioned football team affiliations of those they interviewed.

      This was prior to ANYONE describing Better Together, or any other associated campaign, as ‘unionists’

      There was a decision made long ago to portray it thus and dogwhistle not only the Orange Order, but also those whose leanings would be considered as ‘shy bigots’ (a bit like ‘shy Tories’) They wanted to make them nervous and portray it thus to polarise it, wrongly, as sectarian. Something the Tory Party and Ruth Davidson in particular are guilty of.

      They continue to perpetrate this shameful atrocity even now. And, although we lost the vote it DID confirm that the electorate hasn’t (entirely) swallowed it.

      In Scotland sectarianism is on the wane, we just have to challenge the morons in the press who continue to pedal this filth…

    245. Thepnr says:

      @Dave McEwan Hill

      Right now there is no doubt that like a lot of us Nicola Sturgeon sees the possibility of a General Election in the not too distant future as something that has a high likelihood of coming true.

      It’s not surprising then that she should mention an election as one way of making it clear to Westminster that refusing a Section 30 order is not acceptable to the people of Scotland.

      I don’t think we’d be too far off the make if we were to expect something in an SNP manifesto for a General Election saying precisely that support for the SNP is support for a second Independence referendum.

      In fact it’s almost certain to say that if you think about it.

      So I totally agree with you, it has nothing to do with seeking another mandate and all to do with reinforcing the mandate we already have and making this clear to Westminster that there clearly is support for another referendum in Scotland despite the bullshit narrative from the Unionists.

    246. Greannach says:

      It is disgusting to see these “journalists” hoping for, and maybe even hoping to foment, trouble so they can have exciting careers and make names for themselves.
      It’s doubly disgusting when real journalists in countries like Slovakia and Malta are murdered for investigating the misdeeds of the powerful rather than rewarded for licking their arses.

    247. Golfnut says:

      @Dave McEwan Hill.

      Nicolas comments. I have to agree with you. I personally took it as a setting the scene kind of comment. Yes we will seek a seek a S30 agreement but it’s going to be a problem getting May to agree. Then introducing the fact that she might use an election. I laughed when I read it, a gentle ramping up of the pressure on Westminster.

    248. Sinky says:

      Good article in Sunday Times on how Scotland is world leader in precision medicine and crediting the Scottish government’s commitment with the potential to become the Silicon Valley of precision medicine which could save our NHS £1.5bn in five years.

    249. Golfnut says:

      @Thepnr.
      Nicola comments.

      You are obviously not hindered, unlike myself,by one finger typing.

    250. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      The BBC UK online reporting on Marr’s show completely leaves out Nicola’s contribution which was the longest and the most coherent of all his interviews.

    251. Thepnr says:

      @Golfnut
      I use two fingers, one on each hand 🙂

    252. Cubby says:

      Richard Leonard claims Scottish independence is worse than Brexit. Yes worse for England. Leonard is just another Britnat who is more concerned about England than anything else. Certainly England is more important to him than Scotland. .

    253. schrodingers cat says:

      i think nicola is correct, indyref2 off the table until this mess in wm is cleared up and we actually know what will happen

      it is unclear if 48 letters asking her to stand down have been sent to the 1922 commitee.

      with both corbyn and nicola saying they will vote against it, by my understanding this will leave the only option on the table as no deal, which is what the brexiteers want.

      the waiting game continues

    254. wull2 says:

      While we wait, tell everyone you know what they are up to,
      and to vote when required, SNP/SNP or YES, nothing ese.

    255. HYUFD says:

      Dr Jim Incorrect England was completely independent from the time of Edward the Confessor when England was first created to that of Edward 1st who conquered Wales. Though of course Wales voted Leave just like England and has a Unionist First Minister

    256. HYUFD says:

      Cubby It was of course Scotland which voted 55% to stay part of the UK in 2014 and Wales and NI have Unionist First Ministers, all without a single resident of England casting their votes in those elections

    257. Capella says:

      My recollection is that Nicola has already submitted a request for a S30 agreement but, as yet, has had no reply. If there is still no reply by the time another election comes along – which might be soon – then she can go to the people with a manifesto proposal.

    258. HYUFD says:

      Ottomanboi As I posted earlier Scots back a constitutional monarchy over an elected President by 52% to 34% ie about double the lead Yes had over No in 2014

      https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/7cnsndq71a/InternalResults_150904_Monarchy.pdf

    259. yesindyref2 says:

      OT
      For those of us who do have to have a TV Licence, *don’t go paperless* 🙂

      Every little helps.

    260. HYUFD says:

      Legerwood Ireland has a lower tax rate and lower spending as a percentage of gdp than the UK. The top 5 nations or territories by gdp per capita according to the UN, Monaco, Liechtenstein, Luxembourg, Bermuda and Switzerland are all tax havens
      https://unstats.un.org/unsd/snaama/selbasicFast.asp

    261. Ahundredthidiot says:

      Wee Britain getting all in a tizzy about just how unimportant it now is on a global scale.

      The fear from the Press is seeping into the Establishment. Crisis of confidence all around behind the curtains of Power.

      And not before time.

    262. HYUFD says:

      Dave McEwan Hill You cannot pay down the debt without eliminating the deficit first

    263. Gfaetheblock says:

      Still finding it hard to comprehend that the SNP are going to vote for a no deal brexit.

    264. HYUFD says:

      AhundredtheIdiot On a global scale only the US, China, Japan and arguably Germany are ahead of the UK economically and only the US, China, Russia, India and arguably France are ahead of the UK militarily

    265. yesindyref2 says:

      Seems an appopriate time to correct some of the garbage being FUDded:

      https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/16238128.poll-only-41-per-cent-of-scots-support-monarchy/

      “Poll: only 41 per cent of Scots support monarchy” (21st May 2018, NOT September 2015 – 3 years before)

    266. HYUFD says:

      Gfaetheblock It will be worth it just to see SNP MPs going into the same lobby as Rees-Mogg, Boris, Foster and Hoey

    267. HYUFD says:

      Yesindyref2 So after obviously ages of trawling the web you manage to find a poll that still gives the monarchy a 13% lead in Scotland. 41% of Scots in favour, just 28% opposed!

    268. Ahundredthidiot says:

      more men of fighting age watch celtic on a weekend inside the stadium than the UK has frontline fighting combat troop.

    269. Thepnr says:

      A no deal Brexit if it happens will be the rocket fuel that boosts support for Independence well above 50%.

      If that’s what it takes then it will be Tory incompetence in government that have been the architects of Scotland’s Independence.

    270. HYUFD says:

      Ahundredthidiot The UK is 6th in the 2018 global fire power rankings after the USA, Russia, China, India and France, focusing on weapons diversity, nuclear power status, state of development, total available manpower, geographical factors and logistics, natural resources and local industry, NATO membership and financial status
      https://www.globalfirepower.com/countries-listing.asp

    271. HYUFD says:

      Thepnr Sturgeon this morning made clear she is not focused on independence but getting single market and customs union membership first even before EUref2 if May’s Deal is voted down which she thinks will have a Commons majority if May’s Deal does not get through on its first or second attempt

    272. HYUFD says:

      Only if all that fails will she start to consider indyref2 again

    273. If Teresa May steps down bring back David Cameron says Steve Hilton ex director of strategy with Cameron.

      Seriously these nutters don’t get it.

      This is all like a very badly written book, there is too much madness.

    274. yesindyref2 says:

      I think you miss the point – deliberately. What counts is facts and the truth, not the distorted, sometimes ancient, always selective, garbage you post. Par for the course for deceitful Unionists (there are some honest ones).

    275. Golfnut says:

      @Thepnr

      ‘I use two fingers, one on each hand ‘

      How ambidextrous of you, ?

    276. sandy says:

      Petra @ 3.50pm

      These nuclear “incidents” are the only ones we are told about. The MOD are on a par with WM, MI5/6 on subterfuge/untruths, etc.

    277. ahundredthidiot says:

      Thepnr@5:47

      I have always been of the opinion that it would be England who would hand Scotland Her Independence. Had we won in 2014, we would’ve been turned over somewhere along the line and that would have just been messy. I know that sounds incredibly pessimistic, but I just feel that between the Law, the Media and sheer political will would have forced us back to the ballot box – to return the ‘correct’ verdict.

      It seems only right and proper that English Tories become the architect of our future direction – they are the ‘baddies’ after all – and this would also be hugely beneficial to people living in Scotland as it would give those feeling some sort of moral tie to GB to move on and back their own Country.

    278. Thepnr says:

      Meanwhile back in the real world of Tory government incompetence:

      UK running out of food warehouse space as no-deal Brexit fears rise

      Britain is running out of food warehousing space as retailers and manufacturers rush to stockpile amid growing fears of a no-deal Brexit, it has emerged.

      Frozen and chilled food warehouses, storing everything from garden peas to half-cooked supermarket bread and cold-store potatoes, are fully booked for the next six months, with customers being turned away, industry representatives said.

      http://archive.fo/zqT0p

    279. geeo says:

      Scotsgov have played an absolute blinder over the last couple of years.

      They have carefully laid traps all over the place, and WM have walked right into them.

      As i said before, the Holyrood Continuity Bill was THE game changer.

      That Bill laid the foundations for a legal path to independence without an immediate referendum, should WM try to stall or deny a S.30 order.

      You start to see the probability that Nicola bringing up a S.30 previously was a ploy, to create a situation where Treeza could say “now is not the time”, then when Scotsgov took no further action AT THAT POINT, treeza thought she would be able to simply repeat the same mantra when Scotsgov came back the next time.

      The Continuity Bill has blown that notion out the water and refusal/not now, will now be seen as contrary to Scots Law/Scots Sovereignty, and UN Charters for that matter.

      The ONLY hope of stopping a Yes vote is for WM to be involved in indyref2 via a section 30 order arrangement.

      To refuse one, or try delay one, and Scotsgov revoke the treaty of union as WM will have breached 2 of its founding tenets.

      Pure genius on timing as well.

      We ARE winning, without even being on the pitch yet…!!

    280. yesindyref2 says:

      Dover House – the Scotland supression Office – FUD House – really is working overtime these days with its 10 times budget which we pay for in Scotland.

      The Scottish Government has long advocated continued, permanent membership of the single market and customs union for the whole of the UK.

      Rejecting the deal on offer does not mean that there is no alternative – businesses and others across Scotland and beyond need to know that.

      A rejection of the current deal in any meaningful vote could see alternative proposals, including continued customs union and single market membership, put forward – and any vote could also require the UK Government to consult properly with the opposition and the devolved governments.

      WE will also continue to make the case that if it is possible for Northern Ireland to get a special deal which keeps its more closely bound to the single market – and we support moves that uphold the Good Friday Agreement – then differentiated status must also be possible for Scotland.

      Whatever happens, we must not be left at a competitive disadvantage when it comes to jobs, investment and economic opportunity.

      https://www.thenational.scot/news/17231062.mike-russell-there-is-another-way-out-of-mays-brexit-farce/?action=success#comments-feedback-anchor

    281. HYUFD says:

      geeo Except May has no intention of allowing No Deal which is the only circumstance Sturgeon would call an indyref2 with a chance of winning. May got her Deal and will either force it through or call another EUref.

    282. Giving Goose says:

      I couldn’t give a shit about firepower. That’s just a penis waving exercise by the UK.
      And for those who think it important!
      What defines a great country is the ability for that crountry to provide housing, education, food, healthcare, transport, welfare and jobs. The UK fails. Even the UN is appalled.

    283. HYUFD says:

      Suggestions in the Times too today May would back permanent customs union membership if necessary to get Labour support if her Deal cannot get through otherwise

    284. Clootie says:

      @HyFUD

      …you do produce some crap during your shift. When is Rock due on?

    285. HYUFD says:

      Giving Goose Well it might be relevant if the Scottish government tries to declare UDI without an official referendum approve by Westminster.

      Economics also is relevant too and the UK has a far stronger economy and better public service provision than most countries in the world whatever a leftist professor who happens to be employed by the UN may say

    286. Hamish100 says:

      Is FUD on OT time?

      English people voted in the Indy referendum. The majority (but not all) voted No . Of course many believe that voting NO guaranteed being part of the EU. Just another lie by the britnats. Of course if we used the brexiT mindset no foreigners would have been allowed to vote.

      Sadly many students who had no intention of making there home here also voted No. Maybe this time their peers will Vote yes to Independence rather than Brexit

    287. Thepnr says:

      @Valerie 1:18 pm

      I watched an interview, I stumbled across on Sky, with a food retail guy, and I was rooted to the spot. He was going through the logistics of storing food, the best kind, with long storage etc., then spoke about “informal” rationing by all supermarkets for fresh items like milk. Limit customers to 3, rather than allow folk to panic buy a trolley full.

      I had to go and look for that, I believe it was this 12 min long Brexit special from Sky.

      https://news.sky.com/story/police-federation-no-deal-brexit-could-lead-to-disruption-danger-delays-and-rationing-11555125

      I have to agree it was eye watering indeed and for all the wrong reasons. The Tories though will blame everyone but themselves if this comes to pass. In fact they already are.

    288. Robert Louis says:

      So, let me get this right (and please correct me if I am wrong). NS is now saying that if a section 30 is not given to hold a referendum, then the SNP will not use the mandate they already have, and will seek a fresh mandate in an election to once again seek a section 30 order and have it once again refused.

      Is that what folks are saying?

    289. yesindyref2 says:

      @Robert Louis
      That’s what FUDs and Unionists are saying, and a few Indy supporters taken in by the FUDs and Unionists.

    290. HYUFD says:

      Hamish 100 I said ‘residents of England’. People born in England who live in Scotland have obviously chosen the live there and have more of a right to a say in its future than say those born in Scotland who have chosen to live in England and did not get a say in the 2014 referendum

    291. Thepnr says:

      @Robert Louis

      So far on Wings three people have said that is NOT what she’s saying and none have said that she is. You will need to make your own mind up after reading what she said.

      After you have done, then I would be happy to hear your interpretation of what her words might have meant.

    292. yesindyref2 says:

      I wish people would learn from Wings that the MSM and other public media is full of FUD, stop believing what the Scotland Office says directly, or indirectly, read The National, and read between the lines in articles such as this:

      And as a party we remain focused on growing support for independence.

      Yesterday we were knocking doors across the country and listening to the views of thousands of people on our second day of action.

      The feedback has been positive; there is clear movement towards increased support for an independent Scotland. Our full case is yet to be made but the farcical state of the UK is without doubt a factor in people’s considerations.

      As for whatever comes next from Downing Street, we will continue to call for Scotland to not be downgraded in the way May’s discredited deal does.

      In Scotland we didn’t vote for any of this shambles – and we aren’t prepared to accept it.

      https://www.thenational.scot/news/17231182.the-uks-union-has-rarely-looked-so-fragmented-and-fragile/

      (Keith Brown – depute leader of the SNP)

    293. geeo says:

      When folk use words like “allowed” in reference to a Section 30 order/indyref, all they do is demonstrate their lack of knowledge on the topic.

      When they repeatedly rinse and repeat such a viewpoint, all that shows is desperation.

      They know the union is finished, they are like a dying fish, flopping frantically on the dock, hoping for a miracle when all they can realistically hope for, is a mercifully quick dispatching.

      I love it, personally, it is hilarious to read their ever more desperate musings and rants.

      If you still think indyref 2 belongs to Nicola Sturgeon or the SNP, you are actually an utter laughing stock.

      These types really do have a shock coming to them, some will even wonder “how did that happen” when a Yes vote / dissolution, happens, such is the desperate denial.

      Posting dozens of times a shift…oops…day… is just another exercise in pointing and laughing for us.

    294. Sarah says:

      @geeo – but my scrolling finger gets a bit tired….

    295. geeo says:

      Think positive, Sarah, you will have a very strong finger to hold the pencil when you mark your X in the Yes box.

    296. frogesque says:

      Re Nicola and what she means. I think you have to take it on the round and take note of Ian Blackford’s letter to May.

      My reading? Game on as soon as the fog clears.

    297. HYUFD says:

      geeo Actually technically an independence vote does rely on Sturgeon as she is First Minister and the only one who can call it provided she gets a majority for it. Sturgeon as she has made clear is focused on getting single market and customs union membership for Scotland and failing that EUref2, only if all that fails will she call indyref2 and even then Scottish polling shows Yes only has a chance of getting over 50% if it is No Deal which polling shows even most English voters oppose

    298. yesindyref2 says:

      Getting rid of the padding, this is what that bit of the article says (my interpretation):

      There is clear movement towards increased support for an independent Scotland. And as a party we remain focused on growing support for independence. Our full case is yet to be made but the farcical state of the UK is without doubt a factor in people’s considerations, and we aren’t prepared to accept it.

      Keith Brown is the Campaign Manager of the Scottish National Party, and, as the newly voted depute leader, gave up his cabinet office position to concentrate on it. He has attended most (all?) of the AUOB marches, and made speeches there.

    299. yesindyref2 says:

      Anyone in Scotland can call for, pay for, and organise a Referendum.

    300. Cubby says:

      It is now my opinion that the resident English Tory Britnat monster is just another paid to troll waster/ spoiler on Wings.

      Try listening to the recording on wee ginger dug re universal credit. Try reading The UN report on UK austerity. These Britnat Tories and even the Englishnat Tories are truly monsters. They do not deserve to be treated on Wings as decent human beings coming along for a good mannered debate. They deserve to be treated with contempt.

    301. Petra says:

      @ sandy says at 5:58 pm …. ”Petra … These nuclear “incidents” are the only ones we are told about. The MOD are on a par with WM, MI5/6 on subterfuge/untruths, etc.”

      Yeah they’ll be the tip of the iceberg Sandy. God only knows what else they’re hushing up. Meanwhile it looks as though there’s been an unaccountable surge in deaths in the West of Scotland, especially amongst 20 to 39 year olds (my posts at 3:25pm).

      Interesting too that the ‘New West of Scotland: Health Needs Assessment’ report, that was released in March 2018, hasn’t been made public, although widely circulated behind the scenes. Why would that be?

    302. Sarah says:

      @geeo 6.48. You’re right! I hadn’t thought of that and, now you mention it, that finger [and the one next to it that also gets some exercise performing a well-known gesture] is looking very strong.

      Thanks for the laugh!

    303. Robert Louis says:

      Thepnr and indyref2,

      OK. Just a symptom of the nonsense on the internet. I did think it sounded strange, but not everybody has time to check each and every thing said. It would be great if somebody explained what was actually said – and when.

      It isn’t easy, to cut through the rubbish on here, due to the many, many nonsense comments from the usual idiotic unionist British Nationalist troll.

    304. Edward I of England and the banishment of Jews from England,

      England was the first European country to banish all of the Jewish faith,

      Jews had been in England since England was conquered and part of the Italian Roman Empire,

      they were also welcome when England was conquered by the German Saxons Angles and Jutes,

      when the Danish vikings also conquered most of England the Jewish people were seen a friends,

      when the French/Normans also conquered England,William the Conqueror of England brought a large group of French Jews with him,

      The Jews were banished from England by Edward I. His motivation was financial, once they were banished, their possessions became property of the crown.

      England was short of money and illegal coin-clipping was on the rise. The Jews became Edward’s scapegoat. He banned them from usury (money-lending at interest) in 1275. 1278 brought widespread arrests of Jewish men; many were hanged and 600 imprisoned in the Tower of London.

      In 1290 Edward banished the Jews outright. He issued writs to the sheriffs of all English counties ordering them to enforce his Edict of Expulsion, a decree which required all Jews to be expelled from the country by All Saints’ Day (1st November) that year.

      They were only allowed to carry with them their portable property. Apart from a few exceptions, houses and properties were passed to the king.

      This made England the first European country to expel Jews, and they remained banned for 366 years. Some Jews stayed in England by hiding their identity and religion but the majority settled in France and Germany.

    305. Gfaetheblock says:

      HYUDA @17.53

      Bonkers isn’t it. Reese-mogg, Corbyn, Blackford and mhairi black all voting together for a hard Brexit.

      ERG, Momentum and Yes united.

    306. yesindyref2 says:

      @Robert Louis “It isn’t easy, to cut through the rubbish on here, due to the many, many nonsense comments from the usual idiotic unionist British Nationalist troll.

      That’s exactly why they post, some openly, some false flags, and exactly why they need to be pointed out as trolls – and rebutted [1].

      [1]. Bearing in mind that “butt” also means …

    307. Thepnr says:

      @Robert Louis

      That truth is Robert that often what is said by anybody is not completely clear, then two different people could have two different opinions as to what was actually meant.

      Unless you can ask the person themself to clarify it for you then both versions could be right or even neither LOL.

      For me then if something is ambiguous then I have to form a view based on my opinion of the person making the statement that might be ambiguous.

      You can be sure that if I like them I’ll take a positive view and if I don’t them it won’t be so positive. The one thing I’m always aware of though is that there are those who will twist the word of others to suit their own agenda and for that reason I especially take criticism of the FM with the utmost suspicion no matter from which supposed “side” it comes from.

      That’s simply because I believe she wants Independence as much as I do if not more so, if that is possible. If the Indy support lose faith in their leaders then the fight is over. So it’s obvious that belief in that leader must be undermined, they want you to doubt these people like Alex Salmond and Nicola Surgeon. The Rev and Wings have not been immune either in fact nobody is.

      Always better to take any attack on a pro indy figure with a pinch of salt until evidence is produced that backs it up is how I feel. You’ll often find that there is no evidence and it is never backed up.

    308. Terence callachan says:

      To HY. FUD…
      Little England once independent will just make it into the G20 it certainly will not be in the G8 basically because at present much of the exports across the world made by Scotland Wales and Northern Ireland have to pass through England and as we know already England count most of It as being English exports .
      Once England can only declare GDP that is English and once England can only declare manufacturing and exports that are actually English it will show just how small the English economy is.
      It is very likely that people will start to leave England looking for jobs, a better life.
      Once England is independent healthcare will be totally privatised as will social security and that will lead to riots and a very marked increase in crime this again will deter business and cause more people to leave England looking for a better life elsewhere.
      It is then that USA will increase the number of air bases and naval bases in England alienating Europeans further.
      England doesn’t have resources in any mentionable quantity and relies on the London money markets completely and it is inevitable that following the drop in GDP the drop in international importance that the money market business will move to Frankfurt creating a vacuum in London that England will be unable to fill causing a crash in property prices and further panic on the stock exchange .
      The English pound will be worth less than a dollar and less than a euro.
      England will regain control of its borders and immigration but it will really be meaningless because emigration will be its major problem .
      You are already seeing signs of all this ,especially if you live in London.
      The next generation of English people will document just how crazy their parents and grandparents acted .

    309. yesindyref2 says:

      Bonkers isn’t it.

      Self-identified in more ways than one.

    310. geeo says:

      Sarah@7.10

      So glad you said “gesture”..i was getting nervous reading that…!!!

      Family forum and all that…..!

      Back on the serious stuff though, i remember not so long ago, someone, who i think was the wonderful Mr Peffers, said something along the lines that there was a growing school of thought that a referendum was not the preferred choice of a route to independence.

      Certainly, the avenues opened up by the Continuity Bill would back up such a notion.

      I have said it since the Continuity Bill was passed, that it would prove to be THE most important piece of legislation ever passed at Holyrood.

      I firmly stand by that statement.

      It is political genius, as we shall soon see, as whichever way the WM SC rules, Scotsgov wins.

    311. yesindyref2 says:

      @Thepnr “ I especially take criticism of the FM with the utmost suspicion

      Yes, but on the other hand I’d guess she gets feedback from comments “out here”, to gauge (genuine) opinions on issues. I would. No idea what or if sort of intel network she might have.

    312. yesindyref2 says:

      Mmm, “if” is a lie, I’m reasonably sure I’ve seen quite a lot of instances of the results of that.

    313. sandy says:

      Question for HY FUD:

      What are the basic fundamentals for a country/nation to survive?

    314. Terence callachan says:

      To HYFUD

      You said unemployment has halved in U.K.
      That is very definitely incorrect
      Unemployment is up by a considerable margin
      What the Tories have done is copy the previous labour administration practice of excluding unemployed people from the figures .
      They do this by not including people who are sixty or over as unemployed even if they are looking desperately for a job
      They also include people who have been sanctioned as not being unemployed
      Then there are part time careers who are looking for work but are persuaded to stay off the register of unemployed persons
      There are many more groups that are unemployed but are no longer included in the unemployed figures.
      What you should do is look at the figures for those who are actually employed full time thirty hours a week or more and you will see that this figure had dropped markedly
      Unsurprisingly Englands Westminster government now treats a person as being in full time employment if they do at least sixteen hours work per week, that’s not full time employment but they get away with it because there is nobody to challenge it.

    315. Thepnr says:

      @yesindyref2

      When I said “I especially take criticism of the FM with the utmost suspicion” I was specifically referring to matters concerning Independence and the next referendum.

      Criticism for other policies is all well and fine and I could have either a positive or negative view. There is no way though I am prepared to believe that she does not seek Independence as much as I do or that she would in any way undermine the pursuit of it for her own personal gain. That just doesn’t wash yet is often implied.

      Marr today is a good example:

      “The last time we were talking about this I asked you about another Scottish independence referendum and you said you’d have to wait until you’d seen the withdrawal agreement. You have now seen it, you’re saying you’ve read all 585 pages of it.

      “Now you’ve seen it what are you going to do? When are you going to have the guts to actually say ‘and so therefore we’re going to have another independence referendum?’”

      Clearly a tactic to undermine support for the FM with those who are chomping at the bit to get another referendum ASAP.

      It also tries to undermine her her as someone who can’t make her mind up and even worse is to imply that she is so cowardly that she doesn’t “have the guts” to go ahead with one.

      Complete and utter bollocks of course, so yes, I especially take criticism of the FM with the utmost suspicion no matter where it comes from.

    316. Sinky says:

      http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/17231417.salmond-bodyguard-gave-statement-on-claims-of-inappropriate-behaviour-at-airport/

      ALEX Salmond’s former bodyguard gave a statement last year denying his ex-boss had behaved inappropriately towards female staff at Edinburgh Airport when he was First Minister.

      Roger Cherry, who was also Mr Salmond’s Government driver, is believed to have claimed that he accompanied him almost everywhere and would have seen anything inappropriate at the airport.

    317. ScottieDog says:

      @HYUFD
      “Economics also is relevant too and the UK has a far stronger economy and better public service provision than most countries in the world whatever a leftist professor who happens to be employed by the UN may say”

      Lol

      You have demonstrated on here your complete ignorance of macroeconomics.

      Are you Kevin hague’s Apprentice or something?

    318. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      geeo at 7.33

      Exactly

    319. Colin Alexander says:

      geeo

      Using a pencil in the polling booth?!!!

      I thought we are under strict orders to use black ink biro to make it that wee bit harder for MI5 to erase the x beside YES and put a new x at NO.

    320. Dr Jim says:

      England has never been Independent ever because it wasn’t ever a country under rule of one single Monarch till it became the successful thief and rapist country it is today but still not Independent

      If a country can’t feed itself it’s not Independent, if a country can’t power itself it’s not Independent like England at the moment is power-less as the EU have just demonstrated, ergo England can’t and won’t ever be Independent

      Even the Faroe Isles can power itself, Oooh! very much like Scotland funnily enough

    321. yesindyref2 says:

      @Thepnr
      That Marr one is something quite a few of the desperate unionists try to do. I generally leave them to it – I daresay when “now is the time”, Sturgeon will wipe the silliness of their faeces.

    322. Rock says:

      Terence callachan says:
      17 November, 2018 at 8:58 pm

      “but in another ten or twenty years there won’t be any of them left and just about all the young people coming along are very very intent on Scottish independence.”

      Well slightly before 2640 AD then, if you say so.

      That means Nicola is not going to call a referendum anytime soon right?

    323. yesindyref2 says:

      Mmm, that didn’t just type right, oh well!

    324. Iain mhor says:

      @HYUFD 2:19pm
      Haha again. I know some people are fed up with the likes of me feeding you, but the last time England came close to a Legitimate Parliament was under Cromwell and then it was a Tyranny.
      Parliament still has that great anachronism where the Judiciary is not seperate from the Legislature and where the ‘Independent Sovereign Powers” of Parliament derive in great part from the Unelected House of Lords, those Lords Spiritual and Temporal and all-a-leaping – whose Powers derive from whence?
      Not from Parliament, ergo not from the people. Not from the Crown either you would imply. Really? From whence derive their powers then do tell?. It will be lovely to hear explained how the House of Lords is wholly subservient to Parliament with no relationship to the Crown and just sort of stumbled in off the street one day and decided it was the supreme Judiciary and fuck it, might as well get some Legislative work done while we’re at it.
      I’ll be sure and let them know and copy the other “Constitutional Monarchies” in to let them know what they’re missing not having an unelected house of itinerant bums running their country.
      The power of those Lords derive from the Crown and the Crown derives its powers from them in turn, in a cyclical parasitic symbiosis whilst locked in continual battle with the Parliament of Commons of the UK for supreme ‘Sovereign’ power. That continuing English Parliament which is still the joke, anathema and insult to even a pseudo democracy by the people it has always been. It even pretends in its hubris to have Sovereign power over the Parliament and people of Scotland where it has absolutely no Sovereign power to legislate even unto itself.
      It is a sham and house of lies and I will have none if it.

    325. yesindyref2 says:

      Mmm, two have just entered stage right. Must be kicking out time at Dover House.

    326. PacMan says:

      With the Brexit agreement supposed to be done by now but extended, now we are having a leadership contest that is going to throw that negotiation in disarray. Folk must really now be shaking their heads and asking themselves WTF is going on.

      The Brexiteers talk about wanting to get out of Europe so they can start negotiating trade deals throughout the world. This is the 21st century. People around the world have up to date information about what is happening anywhere in the globe and the language expertise to go around the MSM to get what is really going on. When the movers and shakers in the global economy see what is currently happening now in the UK, are they honestly going to believe that the UK can actually agree to anything never mind trust them to fulfill their obligations?

      There is no doubt the circus that is Brexit has emboldened the British and Proud mob but with the people who matters who know what Brexit will do to the economy i.e. affect their lifestyles, I do feel there could be softening of attitudes towards independence in the months to come.

      I’ve said what needs to be said about the Tories. Corbyn day by day, looks like a bystander increasingly disoriented and dazed as events unfold around him. Nicola Sturgeon is doing the right thing and looks professional and on the ball, every step of the way.

      Let the bottom-feeders snarl and growl. Keep an eye on the big picture as the Tories tear themselves to pieces, indy is there for the taking.

      One last thing, Mundell and Davidson hasn’t resigned. What a surprise lol.

    327. Rock says:

      Colin Alexander says:
      17 November, 2018 at 9:17 pm

      “I can’t think of a single SNP politician that would tell the UK state to stick their UK political salary and pension cos we’re declaring independence.”

      Wonder what posters with blind faith in the SNP will have to say when they realise that there is not going to be an illegal independence referendum anytime soon.

      If blind faith in religion is bad, blind faith in politicians is worse.

    328. mike cassidy says:

      Robert Louis

      Click on the link that was given

      http://indyref2.scot/nicola-sturgeon-signals-no-indyref2-without-westminster-backing

      Click on the link on that page.

      Here the words as spoken by the woman herself.

      OK, its in total about a minute you’ll never get back ….

    329. Cubby says:

      Geeo@6.04pm

      It is the fatal combination of the Britnats ignorance and arrogance that will be their downfall. The Britnats are big on lies, deceit, treachery etc but they ain’t as smart as they think they are. Best to let a fool keep on thinking they are smart until the game is over.

    330. Rock says:

      Clootie says:
      17 November, 2018 at 10:08 pm

      “@Colin Alexander
      You are a troll. We all know what you are trying to do. Now go and practise safe sex with Rock.”

      If you can’t make a counter argument, you should remain silent rather than make such vulgar comments on the best blog in the United Kingdom.

    331. Thepnr says:

      @PacMan

      No leadership contest as yet, unless I’ve missed something.

      That will come after May’s deal is defeated on the “meaningful vote” hopefully in December. I’ll look on that as an early Xmas present as the present shambles will look like nothing compared with the utter chaos that is to come.

    332. Ahundredthidiot says:

      no point asking or responding to HYFUD, he’s off duty now

    333. Rock says:

      geeo says:
      17 November, 2018 at 10:47 pm

      “The only way brexit will be cancelled is because of the impact of Scottish action, primarily the ECJ case, which if won, will put power in WM’s hands.”

      Yes, because the most stupid people on earth are in Scotland.

      The powers that be don’t want Brexit, Brexit gets cancelled and the Scots get the blame for it.

      Independence doesn’t happen 2640 AD.

      The best of both worlds really – for the powers that be.

      Rock (8th November – “The news that could be”):

      If anything, Scotland’s pretendy “Supreme Court” is doing the dirty work in the name of the UK establishment.

      It would never, ever unambigously make a ruling which would harm Westminster’s stranglehold on Scotland.

      If any “pleb” needs reminding, the Scottish justice system is rotten to the core and the vast majority of lawyers, especially judges, are the lowest of the low.”

    334. Dr Jim says:

      Scotland has farming fishing and power so actual true Independence can be just around the corner whereas England has insufficient of all of the above so continued dependence on everybody else is inevitable

    335. cynicalHighlander says:

      STOP FEEDING THE TROLLS as it stops people reading the relevant posts

    336. Cubby says:

      thepnr @ 5.06pm

      I also use two fingers but on the one hand in the direction of all the Britnat tossers that post on Wings and it ain’t the Churchill version.

    337. schrodingers cat says:

      Thepnr says:
      18 November, 2018 at 8:23 pm
      @PacMan

      No leadership contest as yet, unless I’ve missed something.

      That will come after May’s deal is defeated on the “meaningful vote” hopefully in December.
      ————-

      i think the brexiteers will wait for the coup now, with only 2 scots tories actually commiting themselves to treezas deal, i think nicola and corbyn should have kept their cards closer to their chests. the tory brexiteers now know that the hoc will reject the plan cos nicola and corbyn have already said so.

      this will ensure a no deal senario which will now be blamed on the snp and labour.

      if they had prevaricated about the bush, the tory brexiteers would have moved to remove treeza if they thought there was any chance her deal would get through the commons

    338. Rock says:

      winifred mccartney says:
      18 November, 2018 at 12:36 pm

      “I hope everyone who was offended by Andrew Marr’s questioning of the FM ‘if she had the guts to call another indy ref’ will complain to the BBC.”

      That is precisely the question gutless Establishment lawyer Nicola deserved to be asked.

      Does a single poster here have the guts to go on the record and state that Nicola will definitely hold an independence referendum without a Section 30 order from Westminster?

      If so, when?

    339. Sarah says:

      @geeo. Independence by another route – Craig Murray has written more than once, I think, about how most countries have obtained independence by election results, not by referendum. See his post of 2nd Feb 2017 “Tories Tread a Dangerous Path” para 10.

      I am sure the SNP will know this.

      On the other hand, I’ve read btl comments pointing out that the vote supporting the party/ies behind an independence declaration should surely be over 50%. I’d like to think that with the right mix of eligible voters [EU citizens and 16/17 yr olds] this figure is achievable. But it is a complication.

    340. frogesque says:

      @ Dr Jim: 8.27

      Don’t forget water. England can barely hold its own re potable water and that’s in a good year. This year has been devastating while Scotland’s water was low we managed to export to England.

    341. IZZIE says:

      Rock @ 839 What exactly is your point?

    342. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Rock at 8.39

      What makes you think we are in close and immediate contact with the FM or are you just stupid? No need to answer that question.

      The frantic stuff now from Rock, HYFUD and Colin Alexander just lets us know that they know that the game is up.
      We have crossed a bridge in the last couple of months. The arguments about tuppence and thruppence and currencies and deficits have been brushed away.
      It’s gut thing now. We don’t want to be ruled anymore by other people who think that telling us we are an economic basket case or that we are the only country in the world too stupid to run our own affairs is a telling argument for dependencey and the sacred union.

    343. sandy says:

      ROCK @ 8.20PM

      No blog is perfect. However, this one is primarily for debate. Parrots not welcome. Known to shit all over the place several times a day.

    344. Cubby says:

      Dave McEwan Hill @8.42pm

      Monsters like him and the other Tories will be well pleased with their achievements as set out in the UN report. They have no empathy or morals. Killing people and making other lifes miserable are all in a days work for the Tories. The only time they feel any shame is when they feel they have not figured out a way to pay less tax but another Tory has.

    345. Shug says:

      Westminster’s Scotland desk has issued the required message and the muppets are now spreading it
      This is how they will work during Indy ref2
      Westminster has a team already in place and warming up ready to attack and the Scottish MSM will do what they are told
      I heard a caller to call Kay’s last week Question her opinion only to be told ‘you don’t know my opinion ‘sto which the obvious answer is if you did not hold unionist opinions you would not have the job you have

    346. Daisy Walker says:

      O/T http://www.ft.com/content/0dc04e48-e931-11e8-a34c-663b3f553b35

      Looks like our Fisher folk are finally beginning to realise they’ve been sold down the river… again.

      If the above doesn’t open, visit Kirsty Hughes Twitter account and read there.

      Re WM/TM and Brexit.

      TM’s deal is not acceptable, it keeps the UK under the European Court of Justice and that means the wealthiest 1% being identified, and then being taxed on 100’s of years of Colonial theft.

      In addition it contravenes the terms of the Treaty of Union by treating the people of NI differently to rUK.

      They will not oust TM at the moment, what for? All the drama over her is catching everyone’s eye, and therefore they’re not looking at how bad any form of brexit really is.

      The deal will have to be kicked out though, (unless they can arrange some form of secret backroom deal for their tax havens) but they will draw it out for as long as possible.

      Meantime, the People’s Vote… for some this is about a soft Brexit, for others medium, and for others yet a total cancellation of Brexit. This lack of clarity is completely deliberate, and probably the reason for Labour’s lack of firm stance. The left cheek of the same skelpit establishment erse, serves it maister well.

      This is why the cheer leaders for a PV are not shining any light on Cherry/Wightman’s legal action to clarify if WM can have A50 unilaterally withdrawn.

      One thing the PV’s existence does do, is allow for a rallying cry, for the SNP to ‘do more’ to support it.

      I think the SNP are playing a blinder by not resisting it, and supporting it in a minimalist way.

      What both the above do, is keep the can kicked down the road, clock ticking, and so, whether its a GE (with indy on the manifesto) or Indy Ref2 + /- People’s Vote, there is no absolute clarity on what the terms of Brexit actually are, and there will be very little time to campaign prior to 29/3/19.

      Keep keeping on folks. There’s nothing else for it. One fact, one conversatation at a time.

    347. twathater says:

      I notice a few posters mention M(ars*)question to Nicola re having the GUTS to call indy2 ,did no one notice the earlier slight re no mention of Scotland in the 500 odd pages of the W A , M(ars*) responded that there were very little verbs in the agreement also , ridiculing and rubbishing the objections to an irrelevance

      Contrary to others opinions I felt that Nicola should have responded by calling out Marr’s disgraceful demeaning comments , how dare this arrogant denigrating arsewipe compare the nation and country of Scotland to a grammatical word , this constant failure to call these self opinionated ("Quizmaster" - Ed)s out for the liars and duplicitous creatures that they are only ENCOURAGES and enables their disrespectful behaviour

      (Rhetorical question ) Is our proud First Minister of Scotland happy to accept this constant denigration , of her personally , her proud nation , and the country of Scotland

      I for one am sick to the back teeth of having to listen to our elected representatives being maligned and demeaned in the media on a daily basis without so much as fighting back or challenging these idiots

      I also noted Nicola saying that she HOPED to convince and work with Corbyn and others to defeat treezas agreement , WTAF , why , Corbyn and the rest don’t have any ideas worth pursuing plus they oppose the SG in everything they do , Nicola has been elected to fight for the best for Scotland which is independence , not to save engerland or the engerlish from their own stupidity

    348. HYUFD says:

      Scot Finlayson And we were also the first western country with an ethnic Jew as PM, Disraeli and welcomed thousands of Jews who we saved from the Nazi death camps in WW2

    349. Confused says:

      Jim Ratcliffe is going West of Shetland

      https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46256117

      I hate this guy. If I was FM I would phone him and say – post independence we will create a national monopoly called ScotOil.

      You – will never get a drop – AND – we will build a new oil refinery, next door to Grangemouth, watch you starve and laugh.

      Don’t be fooled by this Alf Tupper, tough of the track, ooh mr grimsdale, boy from the wrong side of the tracks done good – he is a SHARK.

      We are not on this earth to provide a “yield” for the likes of him.

    350. HYUFD says:

      Terence Callachan The English economy is worth £2.4 trillion

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_England.

      That would put England 7th in global economies, just ahead of Brazil

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)

      The idea that English voters are desperate to privatise healthcare and social security is absurd.

      London is easily the largest financial centre in Europe, Frankfurt is 10th
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Financial_Centres_Index

      It is of course more likely an independent Scotland would slash taxes and spending to survive and attract corporations as Ireland has over recent years

    351. Rock says:

      Rock says:
      18 November, 2018 at 8:39 pm

      “Does a single poster here have the guts to go on the record and state that Nicola will definitely hold an independence referendum without a Section 30 order from Westminster?

      If so, when?”

      Dave McEwan Hill says:
      18 November, 2018 at 8:51 pm

      “Rock at 8.39

      What makes you think we are in close and immediate contact with the FM or are you just stupid?”

      Don’t YOU have your own opinion as to whether Nicola will dare hold a referendum without a Section 30 order?

      I have no contact with the FM but I can say with 100% confidence that she wouldn’t dare defy Saint Theresa.

      We will soon see.

    352. HYUFD says:

      Sandy First a strong economy, second a strong military to defend itself

    353. HYUFD says:

      Terence Callachan If you do 16 hours a week work you are clearly in a job even if not full time and not spending all your week on welfare. The 8% unemployed Labour left in 2010 were spending all their week on welfare

    354. Dan Huil says:

      I used to ask myself why British nationalists are so determined to destroy their own so-called precious united kingdom. I don’t bother asking anymore. Let them get on with it.

    355. `We` ? you obviously mean the United Kingdom,

      Disraeli was PM of UK not England,

      and

      `UK` ,not England, welcomed thousands of Jews who we saved from the Nazi death camps in WW2,

      like a lot of British Nationalists you seem to think UK means England means UK means British means English means UK,

      hoisted by your own little Englander Tory arrogance.

    356. HYUFD says:

      Dr Jim I am reluctant to feed your anti English hysteria but England had its own monarch from Edward the Confessor to Henry IIIrd (before Edward 1st became King of England).

      Almost no country feeds solely itself or powers solely itself but still most of rural England is farmland creating food to feed the nation and England also has nuclear, wave, solar, windpower, coal and oil and gas of its own

    357. Rock says:

      Confused says:
      18 November, 2018 at 9:29 pm

      “Jim Ratcliffe is going West of Shetland

      I hate this guy. If I was FM I would phone him and say – post independence we will create a national monopoly called ScotOil.”

      There will be not be a drop of oil left by the time independence comes in 2640 AD.

      Do you have your own opinion as to whether Nicola will dare hold a referendum without a Section 30 order, before the scheduled Brexit date of March 2019?

      Remember, if Brexit happens, after March 2019 Scotland will have no basis of continuity as a successor state.

    358. HYUFD says:

      Ian Mhor Since the Parliament Acts of 1911 and 1949 the House of Lords can only delay bills for a maximum of a year, it cannot block bills completely, the Commons always gets its way in the end.

      Plenty of countries have largely unelected second chambers made up of the great and the good like Canada for example

    359. yesindyref2 says:

      illegal independence referendum

      There’s actually NO SUCH THING in Scotland, or the UK. Anyone can organise one.

    360. HYUFD says:

      Dave McEwan Hill I suggest the UN poverty Czar goes to Sao Paolo or Rio De Janeiro or Calcutta or Harare or Johannesburg or Mexico City or Pyongyang if he really wants to find poverty rather than lecturing the UK

    361. HYUFD says:

      Scot Finlayson And most voters in the UK are from England and most of the Jews who came to the UK went to England.

    362. geeo says:

      “The great and the good”…

      Michelle Mone

      Alistair Darling.

      Argument destroyed completely….oh dear..!

      Desperate stuff.

      Too funny, folk reading this will be converting to Yes with every nonsensical post.

      Daily Record poll on facebook has mysteriously ‘frozen’ at 79% yes with people reporting they cannot vote on it….4 days remaining tho….oops !

      Unionists…helping indy since sept 19th 2014.

    363. Macart says:

      This has been posted before, but you really can’t re-post often enough.

      https://www.ohchr.org/EN/NewsEvents/Pages/DisplayNews.aspx?NewsID=23881&LangID=E

      It’s also why those mentioned above the line should really have a long hard look in the mirror.

    364. Ian Brotherhood says:

      I don’t comment here nearly as often as I used to but I read as much of the ongoing threads as I can.

      FWIW, I’ve noticed that the usual roasters are taking up more and more space (proportionately) than ever before.

      That may be a good sign, as it could mean their bosses are rattled and prepared to pay them overtime or have more than one doing a shift, but it also ruins the place for a lot of folk who just want to read the thoughts of like-minded indy-supporters who may have different views on whatever’s topical.

      An obvious solution to this would be if even some of the many hundreds – thousands?! – of lurkers would take that giant step and post a comment. We know you’re there! Ronnie Anderson, if memory serves, has been particularly effective in drawing some of you out of yer wee shells and into the glaring horror which is WOS!

      Come on, at least one of you, please give us something new and fresh to read!

      🙂

    365. Liz g says:

      Schrodingers Cat @ 8.39
      Thats a bit of a judgement call though, don’t ye think?
      We have all been wanting Nicola/Scottish government to take a stand and or talk some sense in all of this, have we no?
      She is about tye only one who IS!!
      I can’t see that the SNP being blamed for the deal failing in the HOC will fly in Scotland anyway…
      But Nicola can’t play dum or be like May and discuss every thing but the bloody issue in front of her…
      Ergo…She can say as much as she likes about what should happen in Westminster… IMHO… because it has not a thing to directly do with our Indy.
      Corbin has backed himself into not dealing with Scotland’s representatives…fool that he is…!
      So no harm done to say she’d deal with him!!
      Nicolas no hiding here,no one is in any doubt that she wants Indy…
      Corbin I hold nay interest in answering for…but if Nicola has a thing to say aboot Westminster while giving nothing away about Indy…. She should “knock herself oot”!!
      Some (mainly “so called” journalists) would say that seeing the SNP in lobbys with ….who ever???
      Has all sorts of symbolism…Ha Feckin Ha..

      I say that the sneaky Westminster system means that no one has ever seen anyone in these lobbies anyway…but ben the lobbi is no all it’s made oot tae be!!!
      I’ll wadger.. voting in front of everyone is much more honest!

      Now don’t be scared ( I’m lovely really) but as I see it… There’s more than one way to skin a cat… Aye!!

    366. HYUFD says:

      geeo I will take the scientific polls over online voodoo polls packed by Yes voters, those polls have No still ahead

      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proposed_second_Scottish_independence_referendum#Opinion_polling

    367. Dr Jim says:

      Hey Insect:
      Anti English? me? you moron twat my Mum was English and half my family’s English and live there too

      You just showed your own anti Scottishness by that comment, I’m anti England because it’s a cess pit of corruption not anti people, because English people don’t have any choice of which colour of Tory to believe, everyone on this site knows my background because it’s not a secret unlike the way you attempt to conduct yourself

      But some of us know who you are don’t we sonny boy and so do your neighbours

      There is eventually no hiding place for your sort of anti Scottish big mouth and if you ever think of coming to Scotland don’t bother there’s a hostile environment here for your sort, eh we learned that one from your lot

    368. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      HYUFD at 9.53

      Thank you. You have just exposed yourself as a nasty Tory with not a notion of self awareness.
      I won’t bother reacting to you any more. Brainless Tories with a self righteous sense of the entitlement of the fortunate,a peculiar notion that their good fortune is because they are smarter than the scruffy toiling ordinary people and are the deserving well off have nothing constructive to offer.

    369. Confused says:

      Rock – I don’t find your facile “name the date” question all that interesting.

      In 6.22 minutes I am going for a cup of tea. That – you can take to the bank, jobcentre or wherever.

      I trust people, for example, talented professionals with a track record over random handles on in the internet. Nikki and Lexo hardly ever put a foot wrong and saw off many opponents.

      >There will be not be a drop of oil left by the time independence comes in 2640 AD.
      – silly hyperbole. I would hope the human race would have gotten to Barnard’s Star by then.

      >Do you have your own opinion as to whether Nicola will dare hold a referendum without a Section 30 order, before the scheduled Brexit date of March 2019?
      – there are too many variables in play. The situation is too chaotic.

      >Remember, if Brexit happens, after March 2019 Scotland will have no basis of continuity as a successor state.
      – I do not accept that, nor do I think it is meaningful.

      Rock I don’t think you are a bad guy – and I share your opinion about the National – but … consider this … no offence

      Signs of Autism
      Autism is a neurodevelopmental disorder characterized by:
      social impairments – lack of response to social cues
      cognitive impairments
      communication difficulties
      repetitive behaviors – time for wapner, 8pm
      narrow range of interests

    370. Proud Cybernat says:

      There’s only ONE POLL that matters and just about all indicators (including the increased activity of the British Nationalists posting here) shows, beyond reasonable doubt, that Scotland is well on its way to becoming – once more – an independent, sovereign nation.

      And no amount of guff from the usual BritNats on here will ever stop it.

      Its. Time. Has. Come.

      Get fucking over it BritNats.

    371. Liz g says:

      Ian Brotherhood @ 10.02
      I agree…and now yer makin me feel guity…
      I don’t contribute as much as I could mainly because,I want a different take on how, I, see Indy Ref 2 should go, or how a New Scotland could/should be framed.I want to work it through.What else is this lul for…
      But post after post debunking the already discredited arguments from 2014 leaves me with nothing to add..
      Unlike when I had nothing to say because someone’s already said it??
      We really need the lurkers to step up here….challenge us,tell us where you think we have got it wrong…I
      Don’t leave us talking to trolls….Please…

    372. Robert Louis says:

      Yesindyref2 at 947

      EXACTLY, There is no such thing as an illegal referendum in Scotland. To suggest there is, is just stupid.

      As you rightly point out, anybody including the Scottish government can hold one.

      Yet still, the media, especially the BBC, persists with this p*sh about illegal referendums.

      Seriously out of order on here, with the utter sh*te getting posted over and over by the British Nationalist trolls.

    373. Robert Peffers says:

      @geeo says: 18 November, 2018 at 7:33 pm:

      ” … Back on the serious stuff though, i remember not so long ago, someone, who i think was the wonderful Mr Peffers, said something along the lines that there was a growing school of thought that a referendum was not the preferred choice of a route to independence.”

      Yes, geeo, I have claimed that for a long time now but I didn’t originally specify it as much as imply that it would come about suddenly and from a totally unexpected direction.

      Then I got more specific in that it would hinge directly upon the legal fact that under Scots law the people, not the monarchy, were legally sovereign.

      By implication that means under English law, (which applies also to Wales & N.I.), sovereignty is legally held by the Queen of England who is only Queen of Scots and not of Scotland. i.e. The Queen doesn’t own either Scotland or the Scots but the Scots legally own her.

      Furthermore, under English law, from 1688, the monarch of the Kingdom of England was legally ruled to be required to delegate her sovereignty to the parliament of England but that parliament of the Kingdom of England has not existed since 1707.

      So where is the legislation that includes the Kingdom of Scotland under the sovereignty of the Queen of England and thus of the non-existent Parliament of the Kingdom of England?

      Westminster is, NOT the continuing Parliament of the Kingdom of England. The closest it gets to that status is that the newly formed United Kingdom Parliament originally sat in the same building as the permanently in recession Parliament of the Kingdom of England.

      Even that vague link ended when the old Palace of Westminster burned to the ground. The current building was purpose designed and built as the United Kingdom Parliament and was paid for with United Kingdom tax payer’s money. It thus partly belongs to Scotland.

      Anyway, I’m away back to just lurking again.

    374. Capella says:

      @ Ian Brotherhood – agreed. That’s why I don’t post on evenings when I have to scroll past almost every comment. What is really irritating is when I start to read a comment and only realise half-way in that it is actually a response to a troll.

      Time to call it a night.

    375. Macart says:

      @Ian B

      Couldn’t agree more.

      There’s a BIG readership out there and they’re more than welcome to chat. This is as much their site as anyone elses. They want it to remain friendly and informative?

      Say HI every now and again folks. Most of us won’t bite. 🙂

    376. Liz g says:

      Robert Peffers @ 10.32
      Aye well stoap yer lurkin fur 5mins or there aboots..
      How have ye been keepin Robert??

      And… The fly that Westminster “tried” to put in the ointment is that they didnay Crown Lizzie as Queen of England at all they Crowned her Queen of the United Kingdom..
      They shouldn’t have I know… but they did…
      A whole different argument from striking down the 1707 Treaty of Union…but nevertheless worth exploring..
      Any Thoughts??

    377. Cubby says:

      Robert Louis @10.34pm.

      Spot on. No such thing as an illegal referendum in Scotland. Britnats lie and Britnats lie from the moment they wake up in the morning and tell themselves they are normal decent people.

      The conundrum is whether to let the lies of the Britnat go past or tell the truth.

    378. dakk says:

      ‘I suggest the UN poverty Czar goes to Sao Paolo or Rio De Janeiro or Calcutta or Harare or Johannesburg or Mexico City or Pyongyang if he really wants to find poverty rather than lecturing the UK’

      Would imagine he’s been to most of these places and is merely pointing out uk governance is headed that way.

      But I know you think war crimes,food banks and paedophile rings in Westminster is all perfectly normal.

    379. Davie Oga says:

      Hyfud

      Like most British nationalists you seem to have allowed your mythology to overtake reason. Firstly, while the UK accepted some Jews before the war, ten times as many were refused entry. Visa restrictions were heavily enforced specifically after the Austria was annexed in 1938. As far as any liberation of death camps during the course of the war, it was the Soviets who did the bulk of the liberating.

      With regards to Dr. Jim’s assertion that England is lacking in resources, you fail to address his point. Nobody denies that England has resources. That is not the issue. The issue is that England does not have enough. Not enough food to feed it’s population, not enough electricity to power it’s industry and not enough fuel to heat it’s homes. Why is that?

      How come England can’t stand on it’s own two feet?

      I take no joy in saying that. No joy in the poverty in your misgovernd nation. It also concerns me because England, and the UK as a whole, has a well documented history of taking from others what it doesn’t have itself.

    380. ronnie anderson says:

      How many times have We Wingers to be reminded DONT REPLY TO TROLLS & then we will have less thread disruption .

    381. yesindyref2 says:

      OT – warning for WordPress bloggers – spam / scam attempts at login.

      Doing some parallel testing for moving from my dedicated server and checked the access logs – getting thousands of messages similar to below (sanitised) – I do have 60 domain names. From different IP addresses with no rDNS.

      “GET /wp-login.php HTTP/1.1” 403 214 “-” “Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:40.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/40.1”

      I guess they’re looking to do a brute force login and put some nasty code on your pages, so make sure you have a high strength and longish password. I’m OK Jack, there’s no wordpress on my server 🙂

    382. yesindyref2 says:

      @Davie Oga
      As well as that, during the war they were interned by the UK in the Isle of Man, Cyprus, Palestine and others, and after the war in Cyrpus and probably other places for 3 to 4 years, even after Israel was formed (1948). Camps had barbed wire and watch towers.

    383. Thepnr says:

      If you were a cynic you might think that Theresa May really is desparate to get her Brexit plan through parliament.

      There’s been nothing in the news for months about migrants fleeing in boats from France to reach the UK but just this week it has become headline news again particularly in the BBC. All the articles below are on the BBC website from the last few days.

      9th Nov: Suspected migrants picked up in Channel near Dover

      13th Nov: Suspected migrants on ‘stolen’ fishing boat in Dover

      14th Nov: ‘Migrants’ found on three boats off Kent included toddler

      16th Nov: Suspected migrants found in dinghy on beach near Dover

      Today: More Migrants cross the English Channel

      Today: Body of suspected migrant found under bus in Folkestone

      Today: Suspected migrants found on rocks at Folkestone

      https://www.bbc.co.uk/search?q=migrants+boats&sa_f=search-product&scope=#page=3

    384. Robert Peffers says:

      @Liz g says: 18 November, 2018 at 10:43 pm:

      Robert Peffers @ 10.32
      Aye well stoap yer lurkin fur 5mins or there aboots..
      How have ye been keepin Robert??

      A great deal better than I was, Thank you for asking.

      They eventually got an antibiotic that works so I’m on the mend at last.

      As to the rest the modern idea of sovereignty is that it has, ultimately always really belonged to the people.

      It originally belonged to the guy who could bully the rest of the villagers. Then the people got religion and the bully claimed he was God’s representative on Earth. However, none of that really mattered for when the people had suffered enough they rose up and took back power for themselves.

      Hence the World Court’s Human Right that all identifiable groups of people have the human right of self determination. Royalty is an anachronism and Westminster has all adverse attributes to qualify for that same description – and I quote the dictionary:-

      anachronism – noun: anachronism; plural noun: anachronisms.

      a thing belonging or appropriate to a period other than that in which it exists, especially a thing that is conspicuously old-fashioned.

      Example – “the town is a throwback to medieval times, an anachronism that has survived the passing years”.

      definition 2:- The action of attributing something to a period to which it does not belong.

      Example 2 – “It is anachronism to suppose that the official morality of the age was mere window dressing”.

    385. HYUFD says:

      Dr Jim I know and you have insulted half your family in the past too. I go to Scotland at least once a year to Edinburgh to train people in our Scottish office and have been there many times on holidays before. Most Scots are fortunately not ranting diehard cybernats

    386. Phronesis says:

      The UN rapporteur making the case inadvertently for Scotland’s independence, because the punitive policies of a WM cannot be mitigated against forever.Scotland must now have control of its entire economy and levers of power to reject deeply offensive political ideologies that are imposed on Scotland. WM knows its policies are causing misery and stress, citizens are plunged into destitution and mortality rates are increasing-this is their legacy and it’s shameful.

      ‘But through it all, one actor has stubbornly resisted seeing the situation for what it is. The Government has remained determinedly in a state of denial. Even while devolved authorities in Scotland and Northern Ireland are frantically trying to devise ways to ‘mitigate’, or in other words counteract, at least the worst features of the Government’s benefits policy, Ministers insisted to me that all is well and running according to plan. Some tweaks to basic policy have reluctantly been made, but there has been a determined resistance to change in response to the many problems which so many people at all levels have brought to my attention…

      British compassion for those who are suffering has been replaced by a punitive, mean-spirited, and often callous approach apparently designed to instill discipline where it is least useful, to impose a rigid order on the lives of those least capable of coping with today’s world, and elevating the goal of enforcing blind compliance over a genuine concern to improve the well-being of those at the lowest levels of British society…
      Devolved administrations have tried to mitigate the worst impacts of austerity, despite experiencing significant reductions in block grant funding and constitutional limits on their ability to raise revenue. Scotland and Northern Ireland each report spending about £125 million per year to protect people from the worst impacts of austerity. And unlike England, Scotland, Northern Ireland, and Wales have continued to provide access to welfare funds for emergency hardships…But mitigation comes at a price and is not sustainable’

      https://www.ohchr.org/Documents/Issues/Poverty/EOM_GB_16Nov2018.pdf

    387. DerekM says:

      Who is the new tea boy Dave he seems keen lmao.

      Tell me my old pal has the witch gave you all a pay rise yet are you getting more now than when you worked for the bacon king or less just curious lol

      Ha and yes time for you lot to get worried because ding ding here comes round 2.

      Want to know the plan well go back a few years we told you the plan and so far its working like a dream shame it means turning England into a complete basket case but you cant say we did not warn you,pity you did not listen.

      Tell your boss she can still save face through all this even turn around the travesty of a government she has been leading,it is very simple she gives Scotland independence she dissolves the 1707 treaty of union between our parliaments she sets free Wales and N Ireland and declares England as an independent nation.

      She could then hold on to be the 1st PM of England though why you English put up with these clowns running the show is beyond me,hell and when the brexit poo splats the fan you could always rejoin as England.

      Either way old bean this is happening either go with the flow or we Scots will do this anyway.

    388. Reluctant Nationalist says:

      HYUFD is doing a perfect impression of my glish ex’s dad. I’m getting hives.

    389. Elmac says:

      I am an avid reader of Wings and comment only occasionally, so I guess that makes me a lurker. I enjoy differing views and don’t expect or want to see wall to wall agreement by posters on all things related to Scottish politics. I can even happily tolerate unionist posts if they are intended as a genuine contribution to the debate. What I cannot stand is the deliberate sabotage of this site by obvious trolls in the pay of the UK establishment. How many unionist sites would allow pro indepence comments on a regular basis let alone a campaign of disruption?

      The pollution has now reached a ridiculous level. It’s all very well saying scroll past but if that includes trolling comments and their rebuttal it sometimes does not leave much of substance behind. I think the Rev should take a harder line and block these idiots now. No doubt they will return with a new identity but whenever serial trolling becomes apparent they need to be stopped. Otherwise this site will suffer through loss of readers and contributors.

    390. HYUFD says:

      Davie Oga The Soviets did liberate some of the Eastern European concentration camps true, while executing or sending to Gulags large numbers who were not suited to Stalin’s ideology on the way.

      As I said almost no nation on earth is entirely self sufficient in resources, power, food, fuel and goods and services which is why we have trade and even on the hardest of Brexits England is not going to cease trade altogether

    391. Thepnr says:

      I wonder where this is all going? Xenophobia to the rescue of Brexit.

      Theresa May says Brexit deal will deliver on immigration by stopping EU citizens ‘jumping queue’

      Theresa May will seek to regain the initiative in the row over her Brexit plans by declaring that they stop EU citizens being able to “jump the queue” into Britain.

      The prime minister will say that under the new system, people will be given the right to live in the UK based on skills instead of where they come from.

      Ms May’s attempt to shift the debate onto immigration and away from technical issues around the Irish border marks an effort to fight back against Eurosceptic Tories trying to depose her.

      http://archive.fo/3Cz79

    392. Dr Jim says:

      Oh Christ HYFUD comes to Scotland once a year that must mean it knows everything about everything and the other couple of million of us who live and work and pay our taxes here and support our country know nothing about our own country

      Here’s the thing Trollfud I’m not sliming around the internet in secret attempting to annoy people in a country I don’t live in that’s the miserable mission for gutless cowardly Trolls like yourself, this nightly attempt by you and others of your ilk speaks volumes as to why England is being ruined and in the state it’s in

      Human garbage like you, a disease that Scotland will remove,
      just like we cured syphilis, do I hear a thanks for that? thought not

    393. DerekM says:

      @ Elmac

      It is actually a good sign Elmac means they are getting worried and so they should be worried.

      If it is any consolation the quality of their employees has drastically reduced they used to be rubbish now they are totally rubbish.

      I am not even sure if my old pal Dave is still churning out the britnat propaganda i hope he is i kind of liked the crazy eejit.

    394. Cubby says:

      Most English, thank goodness, are not empathy free psychopathic monster Tories.

    395. Thepnr says:

      The BBc have the power to whistle any tune that the government tell it to and the people will dance to it.

      That’s what we’re up against and it is very powerful, it is so blatant now in Scotland and it may have actually gone too far and has awoken peoples awareness as to the existence of the bias and propaganda.

      Websites like this one and others have collected thousands of examples now of the lies and omissions over the last few years, we need to continue to make people aware of them.

      Start with your own families, everybody has at least one no voter that is a relative, work on them by showing the truth and helping them become a former No voter. That’s how we will win.

    396. Thepnr says:

      @DerekM

      If you’re talking of Sensible Dave I quite liked him too lol.

      He really and truly did believe that all the UK had to do was bung the EU £10 billion and it would all be sorted, free trade deal done so as the Germans could continue selling their cars to the UK.

    397. Cubby says:

      The best thing that can happen for the British Isles is for England to stand on its own two feet. A normal independent country.

      What’s stopping this happening – all these Bampot Britnats that have been reading two many comics about the glorious British Empire and develop their own feeling of being some sort of master race that is destined to dominate other countries.

    398. Thepnr says:

      See the poor souls who risk their lives to cross the channel in a dinghy only to be found washed up on the rocks in Folkstone, none of them are from the EU.

      Brexit will never end that but we’ll never hear much more about it on the BBC.

      Immigration is not a problem because we are a member of the EU, the real problem has been created by the West in it’s support of wars in Iraq, Libya and Syria. These people are refugees and I can remember when the UK as a decent country would have helped as many of them as it could by offereing them a home.

      Not any more, society has changed because those that control the media control the narrative. We have been dancing to someone else’s tune paid for by those with their own agenda.

    399. yesindyref2 says:

      The spang new Waverley site will be so much more convenient than the current Scotland Office at Melville Crescent for commuting once a year from London.

    400. DerekM says:

      @ Thepnr

      Well he is either the boss now and sends out his minions to bug us or found a more rewarding occupation with the vast knowledge and abundance of facts he learned from the wingers lol

    401. K1 says:

      ‘ …if he really wants to find poverty rather than lecturing the UK’

      you really are a heartless bastard. Rationlise away the very real impact of UK gov’s ‘austerity’ experiment all you like…doesn’t alter the reality for hundreds of thousands of people in the UK affected by those policies, no matter how you attempt to ‘create equivalence’ by comparing with other countries around the world.

    402. Dr Jim says:

      I strongly believe there are many fewer NO voters now than at any time before and Independence is a foregone conclusion now because many of those previous NO voters just won’t vote at all rather than vote YES

      Independence for Scotland is an ideological and practical choice, not just economic,I’m not sure if I ever believed the economic arguments of the NO side were ever based on anything more than excuses for their own ideological position

      In the next referendum the NO side will present all the old disproven lies all over again, no doubt with a whole new set thrown in but really none of that is the point is it, the question is do you want to be the same as every other country in the world having your own government who when you vote for them has a chance of being elected or do you stay with a system of governance in which you can have no say and your opinions sidelined as a lesser people and decisions taken in another country by another people imposed upon you

      England is on it’s last chance in the world and Scotland can help those people by divorcing them so they might open their eyes to the two regimes that continually change hands but always result in the same outcome for the people

      Every country in the world has problems, it’s normal, but Scotland has problems we don’t create and aren’t normal and we constantly vote against the regimes who impose these problems upon us yet still those regimes insist they know better than us then have the temerity to tell us it’s for our own good, there can be no economic or moral argument for any system of governance such as this

      When these things occur in other countries the British media makes a big fuss over informing us how bad those countries are yet when it comes to Scotland suffering the same behaviour there’s a news blackout, take the latest UN report on the UK human rights abuses right here in the British Isles the news media reports it as if it’s a minor incident instead of if it were another country being reported like that it would be a sensational story of Mugabe proportions

      People are dying in poverty, committing suicide, disabled people who can’t walk or talk being called for work assesements then being denied help for being no shows and what do the media do, well they report what a Tory minister says about there being more jobs available, in other words they normalise poverty and death in what should be one of the richest land masses in the world and the rest of the world has condemned them for it yet they still ignore it by using phrases like *I don’t recognise that report*

      The Westminster regimes will not change ever so we in Scotland must change our answer to them before it’s too late, because this will be our last chance before they close down any chance of Scotland’s awakening forever

    403. Thepnr says:

      Brilliant post Dr Jim.

    404. yesindyref2 says:

      Good heavens, a genuine reason for not having Independence but relying on the UK and its battle ships.

      FUTURE SHOCK: The question is not whether UFOs are real – it’s why the US military have only now admitted their existence

      Damn, we’re going to need those broad shoulders after all 🙂

    405. Ken500 says:

      The unionists trolls have wrecked every other website, They should go off and tell their lies elsewhere. Every word they utter is a lie. Lie after lie, after lie.

      The Balfour Agreement 1917. An illegal agreement between Lord Balfour and Lord Rothchild. Lloyd George, The Arabs were promised the vote for fighting with the Allies in the 1WW. Reneged upon. Lawrence of Arabia was trying to prevent the betrayal. The Arabs have been betrayed by the West, time and time again. Their resources have been taken and their lands have been occupied. Israel is now an apartheid State. A bloody disgrace, The Arabs were terrorised off their own land.

      Britain and France carved up the Middle East. The US had commercia,interests. The Sun Oil company,1913. Churchill caused unrest in Iran. M15/CIA. The PM was out in jail because of false rumours. Then Churchill took their Oil. Reimposed the despised Shah. Persia.

      US/UK/France took territory and resources from countries/states all over the Middle East and the rest of the world. Perpetually at War. It would have been cheaper to buy it. Instead of killing and msining millions of people. The situation in Gaza is an Internstional disgrace. People living in refugee camps for years, with no hope. The children traumatised. Just despicable war crimes. The Israelis have been illegally bombing Gaza repeatedly. The Kessnet discriminates against Arab menbership. Refuses voting rights. Recently the ultra religious group coalition was supported by a neo Nazi Russian migre.

      The West support Aparthied States and absolute, despot monarchies. They act as mercenaries for them. Murdering people in Yemen. Illegal wars, tax evasion and financial fraud. Without US support Israel would have to abide by UN rules and let the Palestinians go. The Israelis have been sanctioned many times but just ignore it. Helped by the US. The people in the US are sick and tired of the illegal wars and wasted military funding. They want peace and their economy built up.

      The UK Gov has been supporting companies illegally bribing public officials since the 1950’s.in Saudi Arabia etc. It is totally illegal. May and her husband benefit from arms dealing. The Hedge fund makes a colossal amount from shares in military equipment companies. Amoral. There was not much said about the murder at the Embassy from the UK Gov. No calls for sanctions or expulsions. There are reports by the CIA that the Crown Prince was responsible. They still haven’t found a body.

      Mark Thatcher was involved in illegal arms dealing companies. He was involved in supplying arms to stage a coup in one country. He made £Millions out of arm dealing companies. His mother benefited from war. Thatcher established tax havens.

      Diana was walking through the mine fields and going out with the son of, and accepting hospitality from an ex arms dealer. That is where they got the money to buy Harrods. Now sold to Qataris for £Billion. The Saudi economy is suffering. Some Oil rights have been sold off, although the Royals are still in control. Some have been rounded up and kept under control arrest in homes and hotels.
      The situation is quite volatile.

    406. Still Positive says:

      The Pnr totally agree
      .

    407. Ken500 says:

      Unelected Lord Rothchild devised the Poll tax for Thatcher. Led to her demise. She was warned repeatedly, not to introduce it, but went ahead. Austerity/migration will lead to May’s demise. Universal credit expansion will be the finish. An attempt to cut benefits to lead people on the breadline. Sanctoning and starving people. Appalling way to carry on. Totally unnecessary.

    408. Ken500 says:

      No flying saucers to stop Independence. Whatever next? Little green men or Martians. Most of Westminster are on another Planet. A parallel universe of universal credit and hardship. Imposed by them to mess up people’s lives. Benefiting from other people’s misery. A total muck up.

    409. sandy says:

      HY FUD @ 9.35pm.

      WRONG. Fundamental basics for a country’s survival are ENERGY, WATER & FOOD, basics which England has little of. I could add friends but here again, historically, England has but few.

      If your attitude & outlook is synonymous of the majority of English, your future looks pretty grim. Bags of flour & rice to feed the starving masses.

    410. Ken500 says:

      26Million Russians died in the 11WW saving the West. Not much respect. 1/2 a million died in each UK, France and from US.

      Gorbachev, Yeltsin, Putin since 1990’s have helped released 150Million people to gain self determination, self governance. The Russian pop (USSR) has halved. 150Million people. It was on par with the US. 300Million+ before. There is still some cooperation between the former soviets. Cooperation from China and other parts of the world.

    411. Greannach says:

      I’ve worked it out. Dreary yawnmeister Oliver Mundell is actually Ken MacIntosh with a detachable beardette. I’d hate to meet the vivacious Oliver at a party if I was feeling suicidal. Dreary Olivetta would push me over the edge. But I don’t want him to edge me.

    412. msdidi says:

      I was at the WFI AGM on Saturday. Nicola received a well deserved standing ovation on her way in and also on her way out. The Indyref2 piece that refers to a tiny clip of Nicola answering a question is sneakily deceptive….and worthy of a mis-reporting Scotland slot! You need to listen to the question asked and hear Nicolas full answer. Like Thepnr I am suspicious of criticism of our FM whose desire for an independent Scotland is clear and work ethic to that end is second to none. In this instance I wonder as to the motive behind the IndyRef2 piece…..at no point does Nicola say she will wait for a GE and yet another mandate! The link for the whole AGM is https://livestream.com/accounts/6163639/events/8458577/videos/183704981 and although the sound quality is poor Nicolas talk and Q & A session is available from 17 mins.

    413. Petra says:

      Thanks for posting Elmac and I have to say that I agree with you 100%. These people don’t just come on here to spread disinformation, MORE than anything they are hoping to get nasty replies from Independence supporters in an attempt to discredit the Indy movement and boy do they get it. At times we come across as being a bunch of schoolkids slagging each other off in the playground. Totally pathetic. It’s no wonder that so many great posters seem to have done a runner over time. And you’re right I can’t begin to count the number of ‘Unionist’ sites I’ve been barred from for doing no more that posting facts. Time for an early spring cleaning on here, imo.

      ………………………………………….

      Well worth posting again.

      @ Elmac says at 11:36 pm …… ”I am an avid reader of Wings and comment only occasionally, so I guess that makes me a lurker. I enjoy differing views and don’t expect or want to see wall to wall agreement by posters on all things related to Scottish politics. I can even happily tolerate unionist posts if they are intended as a genuine contribution to the debate. What I cannot stand is the deliberate sabotage of this site by obvious trolls in the pay of the UK establishment. How many unionist sites would allow pro independence comments on a regular basis let alone a campaign of disruption?

      The pollution has now reached a ridiculous level. It’s all very well saying scroll past but if that includes trolling comments and their rebuttal it sometimes does not leave much of substance behind. I think the Rev should take a harder line and block these idiots now. No doubt they will return with a new identity but whenever serial trolling becomes apparent they need to be stopped. Otherwise this site will suffer through loss of readers and contributors.

    414. Petra says:

      We’re taking our eye off of the ball. Time for us to start getting some of the historical and current Labour ‘facts’ out there again, instead of responding to the tr*lls on here.

      ‘The SNP cannot afford to ignore Labour’s popularity among young Scots.’

      ”A poll by Survation – conducted between October 18-21, so before the latest Brexit squall – indicates that more 18 to 24-year-olds are prepared to vote Labour rather than SNP.”…

      http://www.thenational.scot/news/17231911.the-snp-cannot-afford-to-ignore-labours-popularity-among-young-scots/

      …………………………………………………………

      ‘Nicola Sturgeon heads to London in bid to derail Tories’ Brexit deal’

      http://www.thenational.scot/news/17232028.nicola-sturgeon-heads-to-london-in-bid-to-derail-tories-brexit-deal/?ref=mr&lp=1

    415. Petra says:

      ‘Recognised: Scottish Government’s fight to stop life here becoming like Esther’s England.’

      https://thoughtcontrolscotland.com/2018/11/17/recognised-scottish-governments-fight-to-stop-life-here-becoming-like-esthers-england/

      ………………………………………………………

      WGD: ‘The only poll that matters.’

      https://weegingerdug.wordpress.com/2018/11/07/the-only-poll-that-matters/

    416. Sharny Dubs says:

      The Rockfud files, has a certain ring to it.

    417. Nana says:

      https://scotgoespop.blogspot.com/2018/11/any-indyref-strategy-that-could-leave.html

      http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2018/11/16/the-brexit-deal-can-parliament-be-scared-into-submission/

      http://uk.businessinsider.com/brexit-uncertainty-means-uk-is-univestable-bernstein-says-2018-11?r=US&IR=T

      A judge ruled former Sunday Mirror editor Tina Weaver personally directed phone hacking at the paper – contradicting her sworn evidence to the Leveson Inquiry. But Weaver’s key role has been hidden for three years behind reporting restrictions. Now Byline can report the truth…
      https://www.byline.com/project/76/article/2342

    418. schrodingers cat says:

      Liz g says:
      18 November, 2018 at 10:03 pm
      Schrodingers Cat @ 8.39
      Thats a bit of a judgement call though, don’t ye think?
      We have all been wanting Nicola/Scottish government to take a stand and or talk some sense in all of this, have we no?
      She is about tye only one who IS!!
      I can’t see that the SNP being blamed for the deal failing in the HOC will fly in Scotland anyway…
      But Nicola can’t play dum or be like May and discuss every thing but the bloody issue in front of her…
      Ergo…She can say as much as she likes about what should happen in Westminster… IMHO… because it has not a thing to directly do with our Indy.

      ———————–

      of course it is a judgement call Liz, but we are getting down to the wire and at the moment, each move is critical. see the scots tories, thompson backs no deal but mundell came out is full support for treezas deal, why? he said quite clearly in his interview that a no deal would endanger the union. and he is right. he has no option but to back treezas plan.

      the other 11 scots tories mps and msps have said absolutely nothing. they know there is a brexiteer challenge waiting in the wings and they dont want to nail their colours to the mast until it happens and they know what the future forward plan is.
      eg, if the brexiteers wing the challenge to treeza, a ge will follow with a new no deal tory pm at the helm, mundell will be out on his ear and thompson will be the new scottish secretary

      i just think that it wasnt necessary for corbyn and nicola to announce they would reject and vote against treezas plan so quickly. this in effect opens up the real possibility of no deal and is why the brexiteers challenge to treeza failed to materialise this weekend.

      if the brexiteers thought there was even a slight chance that treeza would get her plan through the commons, they would have made their move to replace her this weekend.

      after saying this, it is still very possible that the challenge to treeza from within her own party will still happen, and regardless of who wins, a no deal senario is still possible.

      but i agree with mundell, if this happens, it will hand us the keys to an independent scotland.

    419. Sharny Dubs says:

      Ok I’m a lurker, but I do read all the posts, at least most of them and get familiar with posters, love some of them, try to avoid the TROLLS.

      Anyone know what’s happening with IndyCar lately? Can’t seem to find him on Facebook or u-tube. Tried MeWe but it doesn’t seem to be very reliable.

    420. Iain mhor says:

      @HYYFD 9:47pm
      Utter Bollox have you no concept of the House of Lords at all?
      That it is currently constrained, yes, that it is totally constrained and has no function to impose on the Commons absolutely not. The House of Commons does not get its own way in the end. You do also realise what a Juduciary is yes?
      Anyway, there are many I’m sure there are a few who have only a passing interest in such matters.
      Here’s a concise wee taster

      http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/the-unreformed-house-of-lords-is-already-the-largest-parliamentary-chamber-of-any-democracy/

    421. Capella says:

      @ Nana – thx for the links – again! – that Richard Murphy article is great and there are some epic comments BTL.
      Well worth a read.

      https://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2018/11/17/for-england-things-can-only-get-worse/

      @ Petra – also your links are good and a welcome escape from the troll fest of last night. The George Kerevan article on Scots youth looking to Corbyn’s Labour for answers, makes some interesting points.

    422. Terence callachan says:

      To HY FUD…

      For you to say that people who work 16 hours a week are clearly in a job and should therefore be counted as in full time work tells a lot about you, I like it when you make a fool of yourself like that because it puts your huge number of comments on here in perspective , we get to see what kind of person you really are.
      England is Imploding English people are fighting each other arguing about whether Theresa May is trustworthy or not and whether or not she should be supported ,English people have turned against each other because so many of them are now suffering the effects of Englands Westminster continuing austerity measures, as usual Englands Westminster says one thing and does another it’s untrustworthy but you continue to vote for it.
      Unemployment in England is rising quickly as confidence in business and government is destroyed already there are significant price rises squeezing people’s ability to meet their commitments rent electricity and gas bills are not being paid and English local authorities are already having to take emergency measures to meet basic needs.
      Meanwhile many English refuse to address the cause and steadfastly support the current conservative government, onlookers have now recognised that it is fear ,a depression , that is enveloping England as it realises the British empire will never be resurrected and all those nationalities that England has insulted and treated badly are waiting in the wings to to tell England “you reap what you sow”.
      Let’s face it, you for example, you are trying to escape the awful situation you find yourself in and I appreciate that is is difficult for you to see the demise and self destruction of your country but a hate campaign against other countries will only deepen your misery, we in Scotland and especially here on this website recognise your misery ,your hate, your loss of power as self inflicted so we tolerate your outpourings on wings in the full knowledge that you are suffering.
      Get well soon, don’t do anything drastic, seek help before it’s too late.

    423. Nana says:

      Morning Capella, you’re welcome.
      Re the article, if I recall one of the comments stated
      People of England have a problem

      How very true.

      @Sharny Dubs
      See link at 7.58am for Gordon indy car

    424. Colin Alexander says:

      If the Brexit deal / No Brexit deal goes to a general election.

      The Tories get a majority of 1 MP with 40% of the popular votes cast.

      Everyone would accept that as the mandate for their manifesto of Brexit.

      So, the SNP could stand on a G.E. manifesto of dissolving the Union, and if they become the largest party, they would also have the exact same democratic mandate under UK / international political convention.

      Of course, the blinkered would cry: “No! we must get over 50% of the popular vote or it won’t be recognised”.

      These same people would then demand an unofficial indyref that the UK Govt and UK parties have repeatedly said they would refuse to recognise. Basically, an unofficial opinion poll.

      The UK parties will tell their supporters to boycott it, if there’s any chance of YES being the preferred choice for the majority. It’s a lose-lose situation for the YES movement.

      Even if by some miracle the unionists defied the UK Govt / Labour / Tory advice to boycott, What does a YES win achieve in an unofficial opinion poll?

      Is there anyone who genuinely believes the SNP devolution puppet govt would declare the Union dissolved on the basis of that YES win?

      If you do, bless. Poor souls. You are in for a big let down.

    425. Nana says:

      For anyone interested Carole Cadwalla will be on the James O’Brien show at 10.30am

      https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/how-to-listen/listen-to-lbc-online/

    426. Bobp says:

      Nice one TC, get that ar****le telt.

    427. Legerwood says:

      Nana @ 8.32am
      “”Article headline says UK, yet I’m not aware of this happening in Scotland
      http://archive.is/A1UYW

      The Guardian plasters a lot of its articles, such as the one you linked to above, with UK when in fact the article is about England – NHS/education/whatever.

      In this particular article it does, eventually, mention Scotland but you have to read practically to the end to find it. They quote the Livingston hospital children’s ward closures and children being sent to Edinburgh sick kids.

    428. Nana says:

      Morning Legerwood,
      My bad for not reading to the end. Must have been distracted by something else which is easily done when there’s so much to catch up with.

    429. Sarah says:

      @Sharneydubs at 6.53 – but but I enjoyed the Rockford files..

    430. Legerwood says:

      Nana says:
      19 November, 2018 at 10:38 am
      Morning Legerwood,
      My bad for not reading to the end.””

      Not at all. I read it yesterday online and was about to stop because it was clearly about NHS England but decided to scan to the end just in case and there was the bit about Livingston.

    431. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      HYUFD @ 11:30,

      Thankfully, most English people, among whom I have happily worked in the past, are not arrogant self-satisfied cyberBritNats like you.

      You wannabe Cecil Rhodes types passed your sell-by date long ago. You are so last-century, and even then it was an anachronism.

      One would think you would want your precious little England to be unburdened from we bothersome northern ingrates, so why are you striving so energetically (and increasingly desperately) on sites like this to hang on to us? You must need the acceptance of your last colony so very, very much.

      Could it possibly be that your puffed-up private-school self-assurance is nothing but a house built on sand?

    432. HYUFD says:

      K1 The real ‘reality’ is unemployment and the deficit are down on 2010 while the UN praise Mauritania with 42% of its population living in absolute poverty and the average weekly wage below £1000 and with a state that murders its political opponents

      https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/special-agent-heartbleed-of-the-un-has-exposed-dire-poverty-of-brain-cells-mtcrb7p2c

    433. HYUFD says:

      Ken500 Israel is the historic and only land of the Jews after the Holocaust wiped out millions of them but sadly the anti Semitism taking hold of some elements of the left seems to be spreading

    434. HYUFD says:

      Sandy No I was absolutely right. Without a strong economy to sell things and produce things and buy things (and England alone would be the 7th largest economy in the world) and a strong military to defend it (otherwise that country would cease to exist and as I pointed out earlier the UK is the 6th strongest military in the world) then a country is nowhere

    435. HYUFD says:

      Ian Mhor First you are wrong, the Chinese Communist National People’s Congress is the largest Parliamentary Chamber in the world.

      Second as I pointed out the Parliament Acts mean the Lords can only block, not overturn legislation. The Judiciary even the highest court now is not part of the House of Lords

    436. HYUFD says:

      Terence Callachan I know you are Anglophobic and hate England quite clearly but that does not change the fact England and the UK have lower unemployment than France, Germany, Italy, Spain, Canada to name but a few however much you may whinge.

      I know you have a chip on your shoulder the size of Alaska which is why you have to spend most of your existence in resentment at the English and the UK, most of whom have better things to do than spent time thinking about bitter resentful Scottish nationalists. In fact most of the world actually has a positive view of Britain https://www.newstatesman.com/staggers/2012/12/how-does-rest-world-view-britain

    437. HYUFD says:

      Robert J Sutherland Despite your attempt to stereotype me as a Little Englander I voted Remain in the EU and am a staunch Unionist as I believe nations work better together than descending into resentful nationalism

    438. Cubby says:

      The monster has turned up – who left the cage door open.

    439. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      HYUFD @ 21:03,

      Well, bully for your fine upstanding internationalism. Pity it doesn’t extend to the faintest understanding of the longstanding exploitation of my Scotland by your England and its suffocating Establishment control-freakery. A latter tendency which comes out all too clearly in your own many feverish outpourings.

      A sure sign of your underlying gnawing doubt and insecurity. A desperate attempt to shore up your own fragile self-esteem by convincing the turbulent northern natives that you are the superior being, the “natural” (if very absent) proprietor.

      Some chance. Your time is up. But never mind, after independence, I’m sure that your England and my Scotland will get along just nicely, thank-you-very-much, and your
      fine upstanding outward-looking attitude will hopefully provide you with sufficient consolation for your wounded self-pride.

    440. yesindyref2 says:

      Frst it was an article from 2014, now it’s an article from 2012 – 6 years ago – and well before the ridicule of Brexit, to show the world weally weally loves Britain. From the article:

      and 44 per cent believe that Britain has a greater influence over world affairs as a result [of the Olympics, the Paralympics and the Diamond Jubilee in 2012]

      Good grief, a new high in the desperation “somebody please love me” stakes.

    441. Terence callachan says:

      To HY FUD…

      You are angry.
      I understand why.
      Brexit is a real problem for England.
      That’s where your anger comes from.
      If anyone hates England it’s England , you are all fighting with each other about Brexit but all I can say is it’s a problem of your own making that you will have to sort out yourself.
      In you last post you start to talk about England then go on to UK then on to Britain, it’s a real problem for you English folks to recognise that each of those is different, you think they are all the same, we don’t, we know they are different.
      England is angry because it will no longer be able to refer to England as England or U.K. Or Britain but you will just have to get used to it, England is England , nothing more.
      I don’t hate you or your country good luck with Brexit and the other major problems you face in England



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