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Waiting for the penny to drop

Posted on November 19, 2018 by

This is the best one of these we’ve ever seen.

Nobody tell him, now. Imagine the moment when he spots it for himself.

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    1. 19 11 18 09:56

      Waiting for the penny to drop | speymouth

    95 to “Waiting for the penny to drop”

    1. Heather McLean says:

      Zero self awareness!

    2. A Bruce says:

      Too blinkered to notice.

    3. trunbulldrier says:

      He’ll never spot it..

      Even if it’s pointed out it’ll still be different, somehow.

    4. McBoxheid says:

      Must be a wind up. Mind you he was in the armed forces, so probably believes the UK is a country and not a political union

    5. ScottieDog says:

      Ex military aviator. Encountered a few in my time. Most indoctrinated.
      All that bombing of massey fergusons in Afghanistan

    6. Stewart Marshall says:

      It’s the apostrophe isn’t it?

    7. A Bruce says:

      He won’t have noticed the dodgy apostrophe either. There should be pop up Apostrophe Schools for the prevention of misuse of the wee things or should that be thing’s!

    8. Sharny Dubs says:

      Gotta be a wind up. No one can be that unaware.

    9. panda paws says:

      To people like him, Scotland is not a country, it’s the equivalent of an English shire. So the penny will never drop, to him it’s not even a penny.

    10. carp_adm says:

      For a moment, I thought it was that outrageous apostrophe 😀

    11. Macart says:

      Oh Jeez! You’d wait a while. 😀

    12. Proud Cybernat says:

      IF genuine, it does give us a real glimpse into the mindset of the British Nationalist. They just do not see the truth that the United Kingdom (the clue is in the name) is legally a political union of several entities under one monarch.

    13. Frank Gillougley says:

      Breath-taking article by John Harris in the Guardian on the great class war betrayal re Labour and Brexit. You know that myth by the brothers about us having more in common and universal solidarity with dockers in Liverpool etc. ad nauseum?

      Well, whadya know – just like the draft agreement itself, SCOTLAND is NOT mentioned ONCE in this article.

      https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/nov/19/brexit-class-labour-conservative-leave-peoples-vote

      Coffin. Nail.

    14. David MacGille-Mhuire says:

      Nuff said. A Brit fly boy.

    15. Clootie says:

      A strange term to use “…ex-military aviator” and that reveals an identity crisis within himself. He will never spot the gaff.

      I suppose some one had to serve the tea on the long Nimrod flights.

    16. Breeks says:

      I think it’s tremendous that we totally own the word YES now, but it’s a little sad that the word “proud” is being lost to us, becoming synonymous with the identification of a self confessed uncle Tam. For “proud” Scot read “cringing” anti-Scot.

      So that’s proud Uncle Tam and Aunty Scot who are not invited for Christmas dinner in our house. They’d only be miserable and grumpy sourpusses anyway.

    17. Oor Linda says:

      Penny will never drop with him. He’s still so asleep he’s literally comatose.

    18. Cubby says:

      Why do so many British Nationalists have to tell everybody they are a “proud scot” ? Is it because sub-consciously they know they are not and they have to say it to bolster themselves. At least the normal ” but” was missing.

      Strangely they never seem to say “proud British”. Just a wee “British too” from this Britnat.

      At least it was not a proud Scot but fiercely British as per the bampot Rangers fans banner at Hampden.

      This guy is not a free thinker.

      There are many people out there with irrational thought processes.

      For example, many people in Scotland say they hate the English but are against independence. They want to be governed by a people they hate. Go figure.

      For example, Catholics vote for a union that discriminates against them. Go figure.

    19. Muscleguy says:

      Back in the indyref we had a canvassing evening up Menzies (pronounced Mingis) Hill here in Dundee a very deprived area. We arrived back at the assembly point and there was a group of guys outside the pub who noticed my badges and clipboard and asked if I would talk to a mate of theirs. I said ok.

      This guy was a serving army medic and deep, deep in the military mindset and of course a solid No, which distressed his mates. He was fine with Scottish regiments being deployed in illegal wars while Holyrood objected, he was fine with Trident even when I outlined the insane risks with taking the warheads on and off the missiles. He was fine with service people being tossed on the scrapheap and the injured having to compete with civilians for NHS treatment.

      NOTHING fazed him, total denial. His mates appreciated I tried though and sometimes mindworms take a while to work so who knows.

    20. Doug_Bryce says:

      Here is a funny thought…

      If Mays deal is accepted the UK will become a vassal-state.
      It is not often I agree with Ress-Mogg / Boris : However UK would need EU permission if it ever wished to exit the proposed backstop customs union.

      Scotland, whose people are sovereign, could however always vote for independence then do as it pleases.

    21. wull2 says:

      Last nights downtime question, Why was Scotland not involved in the negotiations.

      This mornings answer.

      No single person can negotiate for Scotland, the people of Scotland has already given there answer in a vote.

      Vote SNP/SNP or YES, nothing else.

    22. annraynerj says:

      Horrible the way the Union flag is now always presented arranged in a way to emphasise the blood red of St George’s cross, particulrly when May is making yet another pointed announcement.

    23. Frankieboy180 says:

      Why do these nutters claim to be ‘proud’Scots? I don’t actually know what that means but I can tell you that working against your own nation to its detriment is not something to be proud of.

    24. Golfnut says:

      @Wulls2

      Great response, the people of Scotland haven’t given them permission to negotiate any trade deals using our assets or resources.

    25. Giving Goose says:

      I came across a Rangers fan recently who referred to Independence voters as “they”.
      As in – “if they get independence I’ll still sing rule britannia.”
      He doesn’t identify as Scottish.
      He’s British which = English IMHO, as far as identity is concerned. He has selected another countrie’s identity. He might as well be French, German or Spanish.

    26. Robert Peffers says:

      @Proud Cybernat says: 19 November, 2018 at 8:39 am:
      ” … They just do not see the truth that the United Kingdom (the clue is in the name) is legally a political union of several entities under one monarch.”

      Nope! The United Kingdom, (the clue is in the name), is NOT legally a political union of several entities. It is a two kingdom union of only two entities and they are the three country kingdom of England and the single country Kingdom of Scotland.

      There were only two royal seals on the Treaty of Union of 1707.

      The Kingdom of England annexed Wales in 1284 by the Statute of Rhuddlan and annexed all Ireland in 1542 by, “The Crown of Ireland Act”. Now I’m no great one with the numbers but both 1284 and 1542 were a wee puckle afore the Treaty of Union 1706/7.

      The United Kingdom is a union of two kingdoms and not a union of four countries. When we end the Treaty of Union it will be the Kingdom of Scotland ending the Treaty of Union and what then remains is not the rUnited Kingdom it is the three country Kingdom of England and there will be no remaining United Kingdom.

    27. galamcennalath says:

      It’s an oft repeated mistake among BritNats.

      They criticise the EU (usually unreasonably) for being a union they resent having influence and control. They never ever seem to spot the irony and hypocrisy of then supporting another union which interferes excessively, undemocratically, and causes real damage.

      Self awareness is not a strong BritNat attribute.

    28. Cubby says:

      Having had a look at some of this guys tweets it is clear he has a totally closed mind. He is a flat earth believer – a person who facts and evidence will not change the beliefs that have been drummed into him.

      He would need professional help to open up his closed mind.

    29. Robert Louis says:

      Unionists shout ‘we’re taking back control!, we’re stopping freedom of movement! we’re stopping foreign interference in our countries affairs!

      Then, to top it all, they write;

      “Who really want’s to remain tied to a political organisation that seeks greater political unity, including pooling of funds, decision making, joint budgets, as well as combined Army?”

      And yet they cannot seem to understand why people want an end to London and English rule over Scotland, why Scots want OUR own parliament in Scotland to make decisions for Scotland and it’s people, and why we are sick of the IMPOSITION of DIKTAT from a parliament in another country, in which we will ALWAYS be outvoted.

      Honestly, all last week, I watched in amazement as the very people who would tell Scots to ‘shut up’ about independence, marched into TV interviews to tell folk that they were sick of interference from outside, and how they were ‘taking back control of their country’ and most laughable of all, ‘taking back sovereignty’.

      And yet, we still have such unionist clowns in Scotland exhibiting genuine cognitive dissonance when those same arguments apply to Scotland, the very country they live in.

      But, but, but they bluster, Scotland is magically different, how on earth could a modern progressive, well educated country such as Scotland, with significant natural resources, huge water, oil and gas supplies, and many, many successful industries ever exist without England telling them what to do.

      True head in the sand stuff. So brainwashed are they by the rule britannia pap coming out of England via the liars in the state controlled BBC.

      Truly, Scottish unionists and British Nationalists are the epitome of the saying ‘Their are none so blind as those who will not see‘.

      Surreal. Quite, quite, surreal. And still, even when it is pointed out, they just seem unable to get it. Of course London will tell you Scotland is too poor and too wee to survive without them. It fits neatly into that category of rational argument, first exhibited by Mandy Rice Davies, as ‘they would say that, wouldn’t they’ It is EXACTLY what they told every single one of their colonies when they, one by one, told London to f*** off too, FFS.

      Jeezo, sniff the freaking coffee and wise up.

    30. manandboy says:

      Blind people can ‘see’ because their minds are clear.
      The mind of a guy like this, is at best dim, at worst, shrouded in darkness.

      As for May, she knows what she’s doing, and she’s going to do it no matter the consequences for everyone – except the Establishment, the wealthy elite, who she works for.

      The Tories, always for the few. We used to call them the ‘toffs’, but really, they’re just rich and powerful criminals.
      Let’s face it, tax evasion is a crime in the UK, and the Establishment are all at it. I’m told that the Queen has £billions offshore in tax havens.
      The British Establishment, evading tax while enforcing Austerity on the lower classes, they are corrupt to their core.

    31. Flower of Scotland says:

      In my wee village of LibDems these “proud Scots” don’t want to talk about Brexit. They don’t want an IndyRef either, they just want things to stay the same.

      I think, that they think, if they don’t talk about it, it will just go away!

      It’s difficult to know if any have changed their minds, but if it’s going to affect their pockets you bet that they’ll sit up and listen.

    32. Luigi says:

      Have ye noticed that, during times of extreme crisis in BritNatery, the levels of self-delusion, denial and blatant lies go through the roof? Every level of the BritNat food chain, from retards like our fiend here, right up to the tory landowners and the BBC board – they are all seriously rattled.

      We must be doing something right. 🙂

    33. Breastplate says:

      Unfortunately, they didn’t break the mould when they made him.
      So many sheep,
      so many with Jockholm Syndrome,
      so many assimilated by The Westminster Borg,
      so many turkeys voting for Christmas,
      so many didn’t take The Red Pill,
      so many imbeciles,
      so many tractors.

      There’s still work to be done.

    34. Flower of Scotland says:

      @Robert Peffers 9.15

      I wish the SNP would talk about the Union of Kingdoms instead of talking about four country Union.

      I notice on Twitter that Wales are talking more and more about YES to Independence now that they have a new leader. Good for them!

    35. manandboy says:

      THERE CAN BE NO TIME LIMIT ON SCOTLAND’S RIGHT TO INDEPENDENCE

      The Colonialists in Westminster will always resist Scotland’s independence and insist we can’t have it.
      So we must always work for Scotland’s independence and never give up, and insist that we will have it. It is our right.

      Colonialism is just like the slave trade. It is intrinsically evil. It must be ended.

      Talk of Scotland having to have a referendum before March 29th is foolish and defeatist. There can be no time limit on Scotland’s right to Independence.

    36. Capella says:

      It would be surprising if anyone in the military could express such a revolutionary idea as Scottish independence.

      Ever since General Wolfe proposed to use the Scottish highlanders as cannon fodder, as an excellent way of using up a hardy enemy force, the British Armed forces have cultivated the loyalty meme.

      Wolfe was at Culloden and spent many dreary years afterwards patrolling the North flushing out rebels and complaining bitterly about having to stay in the wretched place. But his proposal was taken up in London and the “proud” Scottish regiments were born.

      A good antidote is “Black Watch”.

    37. manandboy says:

      Cubby, “For example, Catholics vote for a union that discriminates against them. Go figure.”

      SOME Catholics..

      Just a slip, Cubby, I do it all the time myself.

    38. Breastplate says:

      Flower of Scotland 9:27am.
      I’ve encountered this many times and any debate makes them confront their hypocrisy leading to the uncomfortable agues of cognitive dissonance.
      Their best solution is not to engage in debate and throw out sound bites, non sequiturs and rhetorical questions with their heads firmly inserted into their arses.

      In my opinion of course.

    39. Proud Cybernat says:

      OK Mr Peffers – ‘several’ is more than two so I should have said “two”. Bloody semantics.

      “When we end the Treaty of Union it will be the Kingdom of Scotland ending the Treaty of Union and what then remains is not the rUnited Kingdom it is the three country Kingdom of England and there will be no remaining United Kingdom.”

      Except the monarch’s ‘personal’ Kingdom of Great Britain will remain – we are not abolishing the 1603 Union (at least, not yet).

    40. Bobp says:

      He’s a ‘proud Scot but’ jeezus people like him make my skin crawl.

    41. McBoxheid says:

      Clootie says:
      19 November, 2018 at 8:51 am

      A strange term to use “…ex-military aviator” and that reveals an identity crisis within himself. He will never spot the gaff.

      I suppose some one had to serve the tea on the long Nimrod flights.
      ———————————————
      Rear gunner in a phantom I reckon.

    42. Craig Murray says:

      Breeks at 08.59. Let them have proud. We can be vauntie.

    43. Terence callachan says:

      Ahhh yes the H.M.Forces folk, yes I can see why you say they have been brainwashed to be British nationalists but there is another thing going on too, they have lived amongst other H.M.Forces folk from England Wales Northern Ireland etc and probably been overseas cyprus etc and the thing is they never get to hear the insults flung at them because it’s all very hush hush they stick to their own little nationality groups mostly outside of working hours, on the odd occasion they do mix and resort to calling each other taf or jock funny there isn’t a word for the Scots Welsh Irish to call the English H.M.Forces folk but all in all there’s a lot of togetherness one big happy family I’ve got your back you’ve got mine and we will laugh a little together at the senior oafs that come out of sandringham who couldn’t fight their way out of a paper bag but stand up straight man it’s the queens portrait ,a royal visit.
      Being in the Forces squeezes self awareness out of you there can be zero individuality tolerated everyone must be the same those who resist will be punished severely.
      That’s how they get shaped into the britnat mould .
      They have a great weakness and zero individuality but they can walk into any H.M.Forces scenario strike up conversation and be recognised immediately as one of “us”
      They may even develop a BBC accent much to be desired by the Forces folk but you have to move around a lot from place to place country to country to develop that and by then there is no return or returning to original self will be extremely difficult.
      Take it from one who knows.
      22 years of it.
      After a while you can spot them in the street without the uniform….
      For those who do break free they develop a hatred of all H.M.Forces but to do so you need something to take its place something to be part of and I was lucky in that respect.
      Family ,children, neighbours, a good job ,I realised that being part of something whose sole aim was to kill other people was just wrong.
      Wrong wrong wrong.
      Don’t let your children join up.
      Think about it ,when was the last time a country attacked UK who’s going to attack uk now ? For what ?
      All the wars in your lifetime have been outside UK it’s UK that attacks other countries all the time and USA too, nobody attacks us, the closest you will get to an attack on us is us attacking ourselves when H.M.Forces attacked people and shot and killed them in Northern Ireland.
      It’s sad very very sad that so many people in UK cannot see that we are the aggressors.

    44. Golfnut says:

      @ McBoxheid.

      Have to say the ex military Aviator is a strange. I worked with and know quite a few ex forces guys and gals. Inter Service rivalry is very strong, so they generally identify which service but not what they did, at least until they know you a bit better.

      Don’t know what to make of that ID.

    45. Ken500 says:

      £Bilion of resources were secretly and illegally taken by Westminster. Leaving Scotland in poverty. People being sanctioned and starved. Illegal wars causing mass migration. Kiliing and maiming millions. £Billions wasted by Westminster. HS2 and Hickley Point the biggest waste of time and money. The Tory slush fund. Milking Scotland dry. Scotland loses £Billion to Westminster rule,

      The Tory essential services cuts. Costing more. Cut NHS/Eduction/Welfare £13Billion a year. Tax Revenues have increased £95Billion in a year. There was absolutely no need for the cuts.

      Trident, tax evasion, Scotland has to pay debt repayment on money not borrowed or spent in Scotland. Mitigating the Tory cuts when Scotland tax revenues have increased. The Scottish budget illegally cut. 10% a year. £3Billion cut. The fish industry ruined by throwing back dead fish for years (Westminster policy) Cap payments illegally taken from Scottish farmers to benefit wealthier farmers in the south. It adds up to £Billions every year.

      The Oil sector ruined by illegal high Tory taxes and mismanagement. People have died because UK Health & Safety Laws were not enforced. Rules not adhered to. Companies sold off for £Millions after breaking H&S rules. Scotland could sell the surplus of fuel and energy. The investment in Renewables. People in Scotland could pay less for parity. In surplus energy and nearer the source. Scotland In surplus in fuel, energy, food, drink, water etc. Exports £Billions of food products, Oil should be a bonus, instead of importing it.

      Fracked Gas from the US, Gas from Norway and nuclear from France is imported to facilitate the rest of the UK, Scotland has to pay for it. Scotland runs on renewables. The cheapest but has to pay higher energy prices because of Westminster policies, It is colder. Westminster does not invest in renewables. The wave companies are leaving Scotland because of lack of investment. Another major technology sources lost to Scotland, workdwude technology leaders lost to Scotland, CCS projects reneged upon by Westminster incompetents.

      The EU costs Scotland nothing and brings benefits. The bearers biggest market. Grants and investment. Shared Defence costs. The EU ECB would help fund Independence. It has helped many countries in Europe to self determination and Independence. Formed to stop starvation and wars after the 11WW.

      The UK/US (France) are bombing the world to bits causing disaster and maiming and killing millions, They have caused the worst migration in Eutope since the 11WW. They are warmongers. Selling redundant weaponry around the world to Apartheid States and absolute despot monarchies. Destroying the world economy. Westminster also inflates the migration figure. Includes foreign students who return home. It does not include migrant people who take up citizenship, to pay less tax in country of residence. ,

      The EU costs Scotland nothing and brings benefits. Invests and agrees by mutual consultation on measures which bring good, social Laws and economic benefits to 10% of governance. Westminster rules without cooperation. Imposes policies of mismanagement and total economic disaster,

      Brexit being a big factor for disaster for Scotland, Westminster policies have stagnated Scotland population. £Billions have gone to Westminster Treasury to fund London SE. Secretly and illegally. £Billions taken out of Scotland. Blatant misappropriation and mismanagement. Thatcher etc. Labour’s illegal wars and duplicity. Scotland outvoted 10 to 1. 70% of Westminster damaging control. The unionists lie and lie and lie. They are even illegally chucking out people,

      70% of people in Scotland want more control over Scottish affairs. No taxation without representation,

      Scotland exports (without Oil) £30Billion+. Over £16Billion goes to the EU or overseas. £11Billion to the EU. £5Billion? overseas. Scotland gets grants and investment back, More from the EU and overseas than with the rest of the UK. Brexit will be a disaster for Scotland, especially the NE. Scotland would lose £8Billion+ (a year?).

      If Scotland was Independent in the EU. What would happen there would be more trade with the EU and overseas buying more Scottish goods for premium prices. Less with the rest of the UK because of tariffs. Making prices and imports costs higher in the rest of the UK. They already have a huge balance of payments deficit. Lack of investment in manufacturing. Concentrating on fraudulent banking, tax evasion and financial fraud.

      London is the centre of tax evasion, fraud and money laundering. Banking would move elsewhere for EU access. So would many companies, especially overseas subsidiaries. There would be less people but less economic activity and a lack of skilled people. Especially for essential services. They have already stopped coming and experience difficulties staying here. The Tories are charging children born in Britain up to £1000 for citizenship, which should be their right,

      Scotland has a more balanced economy. No major balance of payments deficit. Scotland can borrow very little. So has always been in credit. Balances the books. The deficit accured to Scotland comes from Westminster disastrous policies.. Kept hidden under the Official Secrets Act by Westminster criminals. McCrone Report etc.

      The attempts to try and smear Alex Salmond are preposterous. They will not get away with it. More total utter lies and fabrication by the British State corrupt as well. A total muck up.

      The Westminster governance is a total shambles. They could not make a bigger mess. It is absolutely appalling in every way and holds Scotland back. The EU principles support Scottish self determination and self governance, That is why Scotland got Devolution (with little powers).

      It is only since 2000 (Devolution) the Scottish pop has increased and Scotland is better run by the SNP Gov. They are trying to mitigate the Tory illegal cuts and illegal austerity. There was absolutely no need for it. Westminster unionists totally wasting taxpayers money. Taking funds for women, children and the vulnerable, To line the pockets of the wealthiest. Them and their associates. Labour/LibDems are no better. Facilitating and supporting these cruel, coarse measures. They are bloody cowards. They will not get away with it. Hopefully soon be gone. How much longer can this farce continue? An absolute disgrace.

      Iraq, Lockerbie and Dunblane kept secret for 100 years under the Official Secrets Act.

    46. Bobp says:

      Terence callachan.10.09am. Know exactly what you mean.been there done that and wore the t.shirt

    47. schrodingers cat says:

      @Flower of Scotland

      I watched Alyn Smith SNP MEP talk yesterday. one of the main reasons he gave for the lack of outrage by the population was because brexit hadnt happened to them yet. but it will, and when it does we will be there to point out the only alternative.

    48. Ken500 says:

      There were more Scots in the British Army (pro rata 80%) because of higher unemployment in Scotland. Now there is lower unemployment there is a recruitment crisis. They cut the Army 20,000. Intending to have a reserve force of recruits, That has not happened. Over £40Billion is spent on a Defence. If Scotland had a navy based in Faslane it would aid the Scottish economy, Building frigates, supply boats, trawlers and liners on the Clyde. Instead of Trident wasted there. Develop Oil and Gas sector on the west. Like Norway build over 100 vessels a year. Decommissioning, tax free, brings in more revenues.

    49. Golfnut says:

      @Proud Cybernat.

      Sorry Proud Cybernat, but the Union of the Crowns didn’t happen.

      The proposal was rejected by the English Parliament in 1603 and the Scottish Parliament in 1604. Although RP might shoot me down on this, but I think Scotland rejected the proposal in 1603 but the Parliamentary year was different in Scotland and therefore noted as 1604.

      The monarch gets to decide their own title, but as with most Britnat history, everything is shrouded in mist if not just downright lies.

    50. Stoker says:

      May not be a parody but it’s definitely trolling. Surely?

    51. schrodingers cat says:

      A strange term to use “…ex-military aviator”

      re-worked as cook in raf

    52. Dan Huil says:

      These britnats are tractors. Or should I say Tracteurs?

      Vive l’Ecosse libre!

    53. Fred says:

      Wolfe had a cunning plan to exterminate the Macpherson’s, post Culloden. Cluny still skulked in Badenoch & acting on information a detachment of soldiers would do him in & be sacrificed in return, thus providing the excuse for a massacre.

      “Can you believe I was once so bloody!” he later said, his former enemies sons serving under him in Canada. Macpherson tacksmen purchased commissions in the army for them using the French gold which was the reason Cluny never joined the cash-strapped Jacobite exiles in France.

    54. Street Andrew says:

      Every time a unionist opens his her her mouth on the subject of Brexit they make the case for Scottish Independence.

      All that is needed is to change the names and reprint and circulate.

      And they don’t see it because Scotland, like Ireland is invisible, so of no account, to the Little Englander seeking independence.

      Time they came clean and declared their pitch for England to be Independent from Scotland, NI and Wales.

      The only matter to be resolved is just how far south the EU border in North Britain would need to be redrawn. Which way would Newcastle, Hexham and Carlisle wish to settle?

    55. Capella says:

      “Military aviator” could be a drone pilot, sitting in a barracks somewhere in the south of England dropping cruise missiles on wedding parties in the Middle East. For example.

    56. Tinto Chiel says:

      Cultists are bound to be irrational, blinkered and unshakeable in their beliefs. It’s a strange quirk of human psychology which afflicts a few. Wotchyagonnado? as Tony Soprano used to say. It’s usually a waste of energy to talk to them.

      Actually, most ex-service folk I know are Yessers, and very committed ones too.

    57. Proud Cybernat says:

      @Golfnut

      “Sorry Proud Cybernat, but the Union of the Crowns didn’t happen.

      The proposal was rejected by the English Parliament in 1603 and the Scottish Parliament in 1604.”

      Which is why I said “…the monarch’s ‘personal’ Kingdom…”

    58. Cubby says:

      Manandboy @9.47

      Fair enough but I did say “for example” and I did NOT say all Catholics – that would be ridiculous – just as ridiculous as saying all protestants are for the Union.

      My point being the opposite why is it not ALL Catholics are against a union that calls them papists and discriminates against them. Any thoughts on this. I am neither a Protestant or a catholic but if an organisation has a part of its foundation a statement of clear discrimination against me I would not support it. When I put this point to a catholic friend I just got a shrug of the shoulders – not much insight.

    59. Terence callachan says:

      Iain L from Mulben ? Could be a Lax …..typhoon sim instructor or something like that I guess but who cares he obviously isn’t keeping too well having thoughts like that.

    60. Proud Cybernat says:

      Actually, most ex-service folk I know are Yessers, and very committed ones too.

      That’s exactly what I’ve found too.

    61. McBoxheid says:

      Terence callachan says:
      19 November, 2018 at 10:09 am
      ——

      I served in the army for 15 years until I was medically discharged after the first Gulf War.
      There was no feeling of Britishness in me and a lot of others serving with me. I wanted independence since I had to learn english history at school. I asked why we couldn’t learn our own history and got the strap for it.

      We had a word for some of the english, M.A.S.H. as in clinger and co. We were quite often insulted as non englanders, so a British togetherness was not the case with me. Discrimination, particularly colour discrimination and sexual discrimination after women soldiers were badged with the corps they worked for was horrendous. Previously it was the WRAC.

      Quite a few corps people resist that squeeze that is more prevelent with the teeth arms. We had trades, some of which were civilian qualifications as well as military, so we were reminded regularly that we were soldiers first. Problem was, our military training was crap and lip service was paid to what was needed to go to war except for after we were told we were going. A lot of my intake, 1979, joined because there was nothing else to do in Scotland because of Thatcher.

      As for developing a hatred, na didn’t happen in the way you mean. I hate the way I was dropped like a hot potato and given zero resettlement advice. I hate the way the military is used to help the rich get richer, I hate the way the MOD treats people, but I don’t hate the people who served with me. They are just regular guys doing a difficult job. The tick tock ones obviously different, but they were never my mates.

      I miss the cameraderie and the craic, but certainly not the bullshit, or the fighting. I spent 15 years playing a game with the tick tock mentality. We had to do things like drill, but I absolutely hated it. All just bullshit that had to be tolerated. The joke was, “you can fuck me around, but you can’t make me pregnant.” I am male in case you couldn’t work it out.

      We had a saying for the brainwashed. Bill and Ben the army men. You can spot them a mile off and as soon as they open their mouths they confirm it.

    62. Cubby says:

      Terence Callachan@10.09am

      Spot on. For example, in what way is having two bloody massive aircraft carriers – defensive. It’s for sailing around the world intimidating and bullying other countries. It certainly is not for humanitarian aid purposes.

      The media pumps out this crap that the UK is the good guy – the guys in the the white cowboy hats – the goodies – bit like the white helmets in Syria. The white helmets always seem pretty clean to me.

    63. McBoxheid says:

      Tinto Chiel says:
      19 November, 2018 at 10:44 am

      Actually, most ex-service folk I know are Yessers, and very committed ones too.

      My experience also.

    64. galamcennalath says:

      Cubby says:

      this crap that the UK is the good guy

      Amazing how many people, and not even full on BritNats, actually believe that.

      I don’t honestly know whether the UK was better than any other evil Empire! I am certain, it was never a force for good.

      Anyone been watching the two part series on the slave trade and Scotland’s part in it?

      I knew Scots were up to their oxters in the imperial money rackets, but I hadn’t realised quite how much. Almost all those big hooses you see from the 18th, early 19thC were built of slave money. All the public works from the same era. The wealth of the wealthy all came from slave, sugar, tobacco, cotton, rum. And everything that went to service that.

      It allowed the industrial revolution to be kicked off and with that the ‘improvers’ clearing the land of people here.

      Good guys? The Mafia were several orders of magnitude below the Brits on the criminal league.

    65. Ken500 says:

      The CBI full of tax evading Tory plants. Just like QT. What planet are they on. May is a psychopath, Delusional. What a farce of total, useless incompetents. Airheads paid by London HQ’s to ruin the Scottish economy. Sanctionig and starving people. Illegal wars causing the worst migration crisis in Europe since the 11WW. European countries have to sort out the travesty at great cost. It is ruining the world economy.

      Netflix must be making a fortune. TV nonsense. £3.7Billion for a load of lies.

      The Scotsman defrauding investors to print even more nonsense. Gone bankrupt and then starts up again, defrauding people. They will be selling off the plant. A fire sale. Just like other unionist institutions. The taxman cometh 2019. They support the Union but do not want to pay the Maj tax. Just like the BBC fraudsters. Lying endlessly. Westminster controlled.

    66. INDEPENDENT says:

      Not seen uk telly for the last week but saw the advert ref Scotland’s shame over the exploitation of the slaves.
      Not a word about the Scottish slaves in the Just Mills of Dundee. Reputed to be more millionaires per head than any other city in the World at the time. 12 hr shifts 6 days a week only the Sabbath off, for a pittance
      Same for the miners, shipyard workers et al all exploited and kept bare fit and broke, so their betters could live off the high hog.

    67. INDEPENDENT says:

      Jute !!!

    68. Ken500 says:

      Scotland ‘slave trade’ fallacy. A miniscle involvement. Another attempt to defame Scotland. Most of the people in Scotland were in chains being deported. Or starved and cieared off their land having to leave causing mass migration. The depopulation of Scotland. A 40million diaspora. No universal Suffrage in Scotland. Scotland played a major role in stopping the slave trade. Not much mention of that.

      1715 and 1745 rebellions in Scotland against British rule. The Clearances from the lands.
      The enlightenment changed the world. Led to concepts of freedom, equality and liberty in the world but still not for Scotland. Democracy still not implemented in Scotland. Under EU/UN Laws and regulations.

    69. jfngw says:

      Every time I see the ‘proud Scot’ it is normally followed by the subservient Scot attitude (and strangely a picture of Ibrox often seems to be popular with them).

      It is almost funny watching the union jackery, last night I watched tea grown and processed in Africa then package in the England being distributed emblazoned with flags. A foreign owned car manufacturer claiming to be a British brand from early last century (I suppose the name is). They are selling their products to the gullible, I personally try to avoid flag embossed products.

      More angst from journalists who seem to think we should buy their product no matter how poor it is. We should mourn them as they could lose their jobs. Can’t remember the same emotions from them when others lose their jobs, in fact the bigger the number the more excited they get.

    70. Josef Ó Luain says:

      The stereotyping of individuals and whole groups is folly. Many of the ex-army people I’ve met are for Independence and are committed activists.

    71. ronnie anderson says:

      I’ve never heard a pilot describe themselves as a aviator , military or otherwise , the Wright Bros were just flyers ???

    72. robertknight says:

      Iain L forgot to add “Surgically Implanted Irony Filter” to his bio.

    73. Robert Peffers says:

      @Flower of Scotland says: 19 November, 2018 at 9:33 am:

      ” … I wish the SNP would talk about the Union of Kingdoms instead of talking about four country Union.”

      I’ve been telling anyone that will listen that for going on 80 years now.

      Thing is that Scotland is both a kingdom and a country but England is a country but the Kingdom of England contains three countries but thinks it contains four countries and it thinks that The United Kingdom is also a country composed of four countries.

      However, I do not blame the people of England for all their ignorance. Ignorance is, after all the absence of knowledge of the truth. I blame the Scots who have let them away with remaining ignorant all those 311 years.

      However, the moves to take matters into their own hands and bring the facts into both the Scottish High Courts and now the ECJ should end with the truth having to be faced by everyone – but only if the ECJ goes with the truth contained in the Treaty of Union. However, even if they do not we then point the finger at them for not doing so and the publicity should get Scots angry enough to do something about it.

    74. Sharny Dubs says:

      Terence callachan,

      thanks for that.

      The military way, break them, then rebuild them. I was lucky, when my mum was worried about where I was going in my life she applied for me to join up.

      Thank god I freaked out and refused.

    75. Robert Peffers says:

      @Proud Cybernat says: 19 November, 2018 at 9:59 am:

      ” … Except the monarch’s ‘personal’ Kingdom of Great Britain will remain – we are not abolishing the 1603 Union (at least, not yet).

      Ah! But that brings up another anomaly, Proud Cybernat.

      Her Majesty’s personal Kingdom of Her United Kingdom also includes both Channel Island Bailiwicks and the Isle of Man all three of which are independent of Westminster rule.

      These three are Crown Dependencies under Her Majesty’s Protection but here’s the problem. If, at some time in the future, the independent Kingdom of Scotland decided to take back possession of The Isle of Man – would she use The Royal Navy, Royal Air Force and the Soldiers of the Queen against Scotland?

      Note:-
      In 1266, the Isle Of Man became part of Scotland under the Treaty of Perth, after being ruled by Norway.

      After a period of alternating rule by the kings of Scotland and England, the island came under the feudal lordship of the English Crown in 1399.

    76. Breeks says:

      I truly wonder how a Scottish soldier in the British Army would react to a legally definitive Court Judgement which made the Sovereign distinction of what “British” actually means, and formally declared there is no such thing as a true British army, and that the said soldier must choose between being in a Scottish army or an English army, because that’s the only choice on offer.

      I mean he might be angry, contemptuous of the process, cynical, bitter, whatever… but the deal is done. It’s final. What would you actually do about it?

      I mean, we should probably expect the English army to muddy the water and sponsor de facto “Scottish” Regiments seconded to the English army, a lot like the current Gurkha set up, so that Scottish Soldiers who wanted to stay in a British Army could do so. But that would not be a British Army, but an English one with tartan baubles, and 10 years of 20 years from now, what Scottish soldier would want to do that?

      A lot comes down to prestige. The current British Army is very proud of its prestige, and very often with good reason. Our elite troops, our paras, marines, SAS, are genuinely some of the best troops in the world at what they do. That isn’t hype. It is absolutely true. They are warrior spirits, and frankly, what troublespot is a sensible Scottish Government going to throw these war dogs into to keep them entertained and battlesharp, versus a blood and guts British Army and a stupid warmongering UK Government? They live to fight. It is their nature.

      Don’t laugh either. Why do you think Gurkhas want to fight for the UK? Why did US flying Tigers fight in China before the US was involved? Why is the French Foreign Legion actually “Foreign”? Why did Scots go to fight in the Spanish Civil War? Aren’t we all tremendously proud that Joan of Arc chose a Garde Écossaise? It is all the same thing… the prestige of being elite, and hardest ba____ds on the block that nobody messes with.

      You can bet your pension that the British Army right now slags off the potential capacity of a Scottish Army, Air Force, or Navy, and dismisses it as diddy defence force that couldn’t tie its boot laces. It also makes that possibility credible in the minds of serving soldiers. And let’s be completely 100% honest, perhaps the British military is the only part of the Union concept where the sum of the whole is indeed greater than the the sum of its constituent Scottish and English parts… but I can still live with it. What is one black mark against Independence to the thousands of positive marks which are for it? Sorry, but I’m just being honest.

      It will take time for our current indoctrinated British Soldiers to be comfortable with being “just” Scottish Soldiers, but in time and a few lessons in history, I believe they will come to adore that noble and honourable distinction. But in the meantime, we, as Independentists, should just be patient and give them space to think about their loyalties and respect the decision they come to.

    77. starlaw says:

      I too will not shed any tears for slavery in Scotland, most of the Scottish working class were slaves or next thing to it Miners were tied to their pits their sons forced to follow into the pit and girls to the screens failure to comply meant Homelessness and starvation on the streets. This only ended in 1946…during my lifetime.

    78. Robert Peffers says:

      @Golfnut says: 19 November, 2018 at 10:30 am:

      ” … Sorry Proud Cybernat, but the Union of the Crowns didn’t happen.”

      Well yes it did happen, Golfnut.

      Thing is it only happened personally for James I of England and VI pf Scotland. The Stewarts spent the rest of their time as monarchs attempting to form an actual united kingdom but failed to do so.

      Which is why Westminster engineered, first the expedition to form a Scottish colony at Darien, then used that to force the Treaty of Union of 1706/7 upon Scotland.

      If there had been a Union of the Crowns in 1603 there would have been no need of a Treaty of Union.

      In fact, if the laws of England had been followed in 1603, the Scottish Monarchy would have used the Divine Right of Kings laws of England to annex the three country Kingdom of England, Wales and Ireland as part of his Kingdom of Scotland.

      The, “Divine Right of Kings”, laws of England did not change until 1688 with, “The Glorious Revolution”, when the Parliament of the Kingdom of England rebelled against the monarch of England and deposed that Monarch. However, in 1688 both kingdoms were still independent with their own parliaments and the Scottish Parliament had not deposed their Monarch. Which kicked off the Jacobite Uprisings that the English still claim today to be a Jacobite Rebellion. As Scotland was still an independent kingdom in 1688 the Scots could not rebel against a monarchy not their own.

      England first offered the Crown to Mary of Orange who was in the direct line of descent but was a considerable way down that line of descent but England had ignored those Roman Catholics who were closer to the deposed monarch. Mary turned down the offer as she did not want her husband to become her consort so the English Parliament offered the crowns of England, Wales and Oreland to her and her husband jointly.

      Hence we got the Battle of the Boyne and ultimately the Battle Of Culloden almost 40 years AFTER the signing of the Treaty of Union. Sectarianism remains rampant in Scotland to this day.

      Make no mistakes, Culloden was really ethnic cleansing by the Westminster Establishment that also banned the Scottish Languages, the wearing of Scottish National dress and even the playing of the pipes. I was punished throughout my time in the Scottish education establishment as I refused to give up my Scots language although always in the top three for English language but deliberately used Scots at least once in every period in the classroom.

      So, no I’m not going to shoot you down for the truth is that the people in both kingdoms were very much against the union but especially so in Scotland to the extent that the Scots parliament never sat and put itself into permanent recession as did Westminster. The result was that the old Scots parliament
      was only prorogued and was subsequently reconvened by Winnie Ewing when she opened the newly instigate Holyrood Parliament.

      Note that this reconvening was never protested by Westminster so it has become law but ignored by Westminster. it may well come back to bite their rears.

    79. Maria F says:

      Proud Cybernat says:
      19 November, 2018 at 9:59 am
      “Except the monarch’s ‘personal’ Kingdom of Great Britain will remain”

      Actually Proud Cybernat, I am not sure that is true either. The “kingdom of Great Britain” was not formed in 1603. It results from the Treaty of Union 1707 itself. If you read the articles of that treaty, it is exactly from that treaty where the name “kingdom of great britain” comes from. Should Scotland dissolve that treaty and the “kingdom of Great Britain” is over. The monarch will pass to hold the crowns for the Kingdom of Scotland and the Kingdom of England for as long as Scotland wants to. I am not quite sure we can longer talk about a “the kingdom of Ireland” when that kingdom was annexed to the crown of England before the treaty and most of Ireland has declared itself a republic.

    80. manandboy says:

      Cubby, a shrug of the shoulders indicates they don’t think about it much, if at all. But I would say that your average Catholic is as brainwashed by BritNat propaganda as anyone else, and that outweighs by far any knowledge of constitutional anti-Catholicism.
      But the shrug also means ‘there’s nothing I can do about it. It’s the British Government, we know what they’re like.’

      Ultimately, colonial-style brainwashing over a long time drains the cultural and national confidence out of suppressed and powerless nations, leaving many with very low self-esteem as well as a political fatigue.

      I believe this to have been the case in Scotland – until recently. But now the tide is turning, no doubt about it.

      It remains a mystery however that so many Labour voters in Scotland, many of them Catholic Christians, remain loyal to Labour, often on the basis of family tradition. ‘My father voted Labour all his life’ you’ll hear them say, oblivious to the fact that Labour is a Unionist Party to its core, or else they just don’t care.
      Of course Labour never ever spoke about their Unionist credentials in Scotland for obvious reasons. The punters believed the myth that Labour was 100% on the side of the workers. Brainwashed to the max. Still they remain.
      It is exasperating for the large number of Catholics who are totally pro-independence and have rejected the Unionist parties completely. It does indicate however that Christian faith probably has no impact at all on whether a person is pro-independence or pro-Union. I can’t speak for other faiths.
      It is interesting however to note that the percentage of Catholic Yes voters is a good bit higher than in the Church of Scotland, also a Christian denomination. This might indicate a greater association between the Union and Protestantism than between the Union and Catholicism. Not surprising since huge numbers of Catholics in Scotland are either Irish or of Irish descent.
      ” The results of Lord Ashcroft’s Referendum exit poll suggest that there is something of a relationship between religious affiliation and referendum voting patterns. 57% of Catholics voted YES while only 30.9% of Protestants voted likewise. The majority of Catholics, non-Christians, and those professing no religion all supported Scottish Independence. It was only the votes of the majority of Protestants which saved the union. Here the sense of Britishness is considerably higher than in other sections of the population, so once more this suggests that there are multiple factors at work.”

      https://www.open.edu/openlearn/people-politics-law/the-2014-scottish-independence-referendum-uneven-and-unequal-political-geographies

      Therefore, the influence of the Protestant Reformation and the sectarianism which was its first fruit in Scotland, continues to exert an influence on modern-day politics in Scotland, most notably in Indyref14. It boils down to the fact of the Crown being anti-Catholic and the Church of Scotland being, by majority, anti-Catholic, the two naturally aligning to produce a 69.1% vote for the Union

    81. Flower of Scotland says:

      Hi schrodinger,s cat @10.24.

      I watched Alyn Smith and Stewart McDonald on livestream on Saturday. They left me a bit worried. They seemed to be talking about 2020 and another GE before anything will be done.

      I hope not. The Independistas are getting fractious now!

    82. Ian Foulds says:

      Robert Peffers says:
      19 November, 2018 at 9:13 am
      @Proud Cybernat says: 19 November, 2018 at 8:39 am:
      ” … They just do not see the truth that the United Kingdom (the clue is in the name) is legally a political union of several entities under one monarch.”

      Nope! The United Kingdom, (the clue is in the name), is NOT legally a political union of several entities. It is a two kingdom union of only two entities and they are the three country kingdom of England and the single country Kingdom of Scotland…..’

      Glad you said all that Mr. Peffers.

      I have used that in discussions thanks to your good self.

      I woul also like to clarify what Britain and British means.

      Would it be incorrect to say belonging to or of the State called Britain, situated on the Greater British isles unless your from NI, when you be of the lesser British isles?

      Thanks in advance.

    83. yesindyref2 says:

      Seems to me for current military (or even ex) that are against Independence, the best approach is to ask questions, like what would they see as the composition of iScotland’s forces? Standard answer would be Scotland could only afford Alex Salmond in a rowboat with a shotgun, a couple of crop-sprayers and a few farmers with shotguns.

      The answer to that is Scotland with a budget of £2.5 to £3 billion a year could have loosely 2/3rd of Denmark’s forces, even at their lower spend of 1.17% of GDP than the UK. Denmark having 5.7 million population compared to Scotland at 5.4 million, but roughly a 25% higher GDP. If iScotland spent 1.6% to 1.8% of GDP as proposed by the SNP, that would make us the same as Denmark for annual spend.

      Ah but Denmark’s forces are rubbish. Well, first our forces are made up of the likes of you, I doubt you’d think you’re rubbish, you’re presumably highly trained and competent, and secondly in terms of kit, the UK would base the T31 frigate on the Iver Huitfeldt, if it accepts the Babcok tender, so the MOD thinks that’s a good frigate, and Denmark have the F-16 fighter but are replacing it with the F35. Scotland could do the same if it wanted.

      As for army, I don’t know very much, what do you think Scotland should do?

      Get them thinking in realistic terms of iScotland’s defence forces, that would be my line.

    84. yesindyref2 says:

      Oh, and at least to start with, the opportunities for promotion would be far higher than for the UK, as we’d be starting and building up, what do you thik of that, General?

    85. yesindyref2 says:

      Round that 1.17% up to 1.2%, otherwise what people would hear is the “7” and think Denmark’s spend is higher than it is.

    86. David Smith says:

      I suppose there were a fair few Austrians who were proud to have served in the Wehrmacht and Waffen-SS.

    87. Cubby says:

      Manandboy@3.06pm

      Thanks for the post and link. Good read. My main point is still there- namely only 57% of Catholics voted yes to rid themselves of being in a state that has steadfastly at its heart discrimination against them. That surely has to be a group that more inroads could be made for independence.

      Start calling Labour the Labour and Unionist party. I was also surprised to read in the article that the SNP was once seen as the Scottish Protestant Party by some. That was news to me. I doubt that was ever the case.

    88. Terence callachan says:

      Hey, don’t get me wrong I’m not against military people, certainly not the ones that realise that the British forces are aggressors at the behest of a government full of people that do not value life or freedom and as for the House of Lords where a great percentage are not really British anyway and just bought their British passport I am sure they don’t have a moral compass having done so .
      I am against the British forces and their advertising and the war they have created in all those countries I do appreciate that it was difficult serving in those countries and that they were only doing their job but that’s not a good enough excuse to go killing people you don’t know a thing about and who have done nothing to you, they didn’t attack you or your country so going off to war and killing people because a bunch of Westminster politicians told you to is damning.
      Britain sends a nuclear submarine around the world it shows up on some countries shore around about the time a British politician is telling them to step into line it’s sick and we all know it.
      Don’t defend it.
      Don’t glorify it.
      Don’t celebrate it.
      Look at your royal family prancing about in ceremonies with several military medals hanging from their chest that’s how much respect they and the British government have for military personnel, they’ve never been near a war but have more medals than you.
      What a ridiculous carry on it is.
      Speak to a war veteran who has seen people face to face that died in action and they will tell you what a disgraceful waste war is , every war.

    89. Ian Foulds says:

      Mr. Callaghan,

      Good posts.

      The sooner we have armed forces for defensive/humanitarian purposes the better.

    90. Katie says:

      @shroedingers cat 10.24 am.
      Unfortunately another reason for lack of outrage is probably the fact that this terrible moment in history (Brexit deal and chaos in Westminster) is poorly timed to coincide with more pressing events such as …. I’m a celeb, x factor , strictly and of course some football games. Can you imagine if withdrawal from EU resulted in a any of these tv shows pulling out or god forbid… no one allowed to be part of the European Cup? …. Maybe then some people would wake from their reality TV / football fanatic comas and finally smell the coffee!!! …. Some people will only wake up when its already too late! Sorry for the rant but had to be said!

    91. Cubby says:

      The British pecking order.

      1. British Royals

      2. British establishment and super rich.

      3. British English.

      4. British Scots Welsh Irish

      5. British Commonwealth

      6. British colonies/protectorates etc etc

      7. British EU citizens

      Good old rule Britannia the home of democracy and equality – ha ha ha .

    92. Gary says:

      Subtitles for the ‘hard of thinking’ required…

    93. Peter Macbeastie says:

      I would point out that I am ex military, and never have been invested in the myth of the fair union, or Great Britain, or any other pish. I joined for a salary. End of story.

      That said, I joined the Navy. Odds are if you see an unhinged unionist with a military background it’s Army. The Navy tends to not mind some independent thought so long as it doesn’t get in the way of following orders; hence the big lecture the ships company got on Ark Royal just before the invasion of Iraq, given by the ship’s god botherer, that ran ‘I know you all have some doubts over the legitimacy of this action…’ and ended with, roughly, ‘but you still have to obey orders.’

      Because we all knew it was bullshit.

      I’m not sure the Army gets the same freedom to think what you want. I know quite a few ex Army lads that are four square onside for independence. You cannot assume ex military equals unionist, and I’d really like it if people stopped doing it.

      This one is a special kind of stupid, and reading the twitter thread is a joy to behold of a mix of misguided political opinions and some distinctly dubious slightly racist sounding ‘Scots and English have more in common than French and Latvian.’

      Aye, but when that similarity is the imposition of the culture of your neighbour on top of your own then it’s not similarity.

      It’s oppression.

    94. Nick Edmunds says:

      Aaahh! So it’s him T. May refers to when she is respecting the will of the “British People”. I have been wondering who they are.



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