Taking our best shot
This is going to be tough. Alistair Carmichael’s list of the “top 20” reasons for staying in the UK, issued today, is a document so farcical it’s actually quite hard to analyse.
It’s difficult to react to it in a rational manner, because the rational response is a torrent of angry invective at having one’s intelligence so heinously and crassly insulted. And going for the satire angle isn’t easy either, because it’s quite tricky to think of anything more ridiculous or idiotic than some of the claims the Secretary of State for Portsmouth makes. Striving as ever for balance, then, this is the best we can do.
“1. The UK pound.”
A freely-tradeable world currency that any nation on Earth can use if it wants to, without requiring permission. Not the strongest start, there. Especially as the UK government pretty much just shot any practical thought of refusing a currency union down in flames this very morning. (As we noted last night.)
“2. Financial services companies can be headquartered in Scotland.”
What? Did we miss the announcement of the Scottish Government’s plans to ban financial services companies from being headquartered in an independent Scotland? That would be a rather odd thing for them to do.
“3. Safer banks.”
See what we mean? How could you satirise a description of the UK’s banks as “safe”? It cost taxpayers not too far short of a TRILLION pounds to make sure the bankers who destroyed the British economy didn’t lose their bonuses. In terms of being “safer” that’s a pretty low bar to clear, frankly.
“4. Greater financial protection for savers and pensioners.”
Are they the same people whose savings are crumbling in value every day because of near-zero interest rates that have been trailing well behind inflation for years as a result of the bankers’ crash and UK economic policy?
“5. The UK’s £860m cyber security programme.”
“The UK’s £860m cyber security programme” (or to give it its excellent proper name, the National Cyber Security Strategy) is one that expires in 2016 anyway.
“6. Cheaper mortgages/insurance.”
What, the ones we save billions on due to the UK’s triple-A credit rating? LOL etc.
“7. More government spending per head in Scotland.”
We do get more spending per head than the UK average, by about £1200. But to pay for it we provide the Treasury with £1700 more per head in tax receipts. Basically, the UK charges us £142 for every £100 of “extra” spending it “gives” us.
For handy comparison purposes, if you borrow £100 from Wonga for the maximum loan period they allow (30 days) you’ll only have to pay them back £137.
“8. Sharing the cost of communications networks and postal service.”
The postal service you just privatised, you mean?
“9. Avoidance of business red tape.”
The UK’s 11,500-page tax code, the most complex in the world? That sort of thing?
“10. Shared risks and spread costs.”
If some idiot of a casino banker from the City turned up at your door and offered to share his risks and spread his costs with you, you’d tell him to get stuffed rather than handing him the contents of your bank account, wouldn’t you?
That’s essentially the situation with the UK and Scottish economies. Scotland is backed by real tangible things like oil and whisky. The UK is basically a giant gambling operation, massively in debt and reliant on “financial services” nobody understands and which recently crippled the entire nation, perhaps forever.
(NB: The banker won’t share his profits with you if he wins. Those are all his.)
“11. Skilled armed forces backed by huge budget.”
Yeah, about that whole “huge budget” thing. Turns out we’re so broke at the moment the Red Cross is having to bring people in Britain food parcels. In peacetime. Maybe time for some priority adjustment, hmm?
“12. International influence to make a positive difference through alliances.”
Or as it’s known abroad, “bomb and torture a load of brown people every few years and then scarper, leaving their country in murderous chaos for decades“.
“13. UK contributes to humanitarian aid globally.”
So would Scotland, just like every other nation does. Indeed, the SNP has pledged to spend a higher proportion of national income on foreign aid than the UK does.
“14. Fiscal-revenue stream is steady, not volatile.”
Cough, splutter, choke. This is what you do with a “steady” revenue stream, then?
“15. MI5, MI6 and GCHQ.”
Well, however would we get by without anyone illegally snooping on all our emails?
“16. No borders for workers.”
There would be no borders post-independence either. Phew, that was close!
“17. 200+ existing institutions.”
No! Please don’t take our Advisory Committee On Consumer Engagement away!
“18. A strong university research base and infrastructure.”
Um, which we already have and which is already independent. Unless, of course, you’re suggesting that England might bomb our universities as well as our airports.
“19. Skilled defence sector protecting/creating jobs.”
What, like the ones in Rosyth, which Gordon Brown helpfully pointed out last week has gone from employing 15,000 people to just 1000 under successive Labour and Tory Westminster governments? Or do you mean the almost 50% decrease in armed forces jobs in Scotland since 1989? (With more cuts on the way.)
“20. Devolution.”
So the best things about being in the UK are the things we’ve taken away from the UK government and now do for ourselves? Well, at least that’s one thing we can agree on.
How on earth did Gordon Brown manage to have a budget deficit before the banking crash? I thought those were supposed to be the boom years?
So, basically, 20 good reasons why independence makes sense. Well done.
He missed out the most important reason of all. We’d retain Michelle Mone.
That Wonga graphic is good – more people need to see this.
I would be happy to pay Michelle Mone’s bus fare to leave.
At last. Converted me. Sign me up for the No campaign, please. (Over my charred and cob-webbed corpse)
Thanks Rev, what a great wee chuckle I had there, I was a bit down, about another job rejection, but this has now set me up for the rest of the day LOL!
On (1) the UK pound: can anyone enumerate the disadvantages of pegging a Scottish pound to GBP -ie Plan B, compared to a GBP currency union?
Once again, I defy your ‘beyond satire’ claim.
Si
Silver 19
Wot, both of them?
And after that, can he give us one reason why he shouldn’t just fuck off?
Rev,
I knew that graphic showing the fiscal deficit chart would be useful. In fact, its probably one of those charts that can be used against all the parties at Westminster because it effectively shows that NONE of them are any good at balancing the books.
Labour did go to prove though that if you had to pick a loser, it really has to be them. But in the end, it’s a bit like choosing which sort of cutting tool you would like to use to amputate your leg; hacksaw or chainsaw?
@naebd
In a word, transaction costs. With a separate currency if our businesses buy stuff from England they will need to buy £ to pay (and vice versa). Even if our currency is pegged.
But pegging currency is in itself a high risk business. Dunno if you remember Norman Lamont’s attempt to peg the pound to the DM within the ERM? The markets (especially Soros) quickly realised that Britain could not sustain that and bet heavily against the £ leading to interest rates shooting up (27% comes to mind) before the Major govt capitulated, the £ was unpegged and Lamont resigned.
It was not an edifying spectacle.
A currency union carries its own risks of course. But they (probably) aren’t as great as a pegged currency – which would just draw in the speculators like vultures if they perceived a weakness (on either side)
All this proves emphatically, is that there is NO positive reason to vote anything but YES!
Also, hardly a list of the most important things in everyone’s everyday lives… Cyber Security? Secret Services? The Horserace Betting Levy Appeal Tribunal?
You have to be joking, thats calamity Carmichael’s 20 reasons for remaining in the UK.
No 11. maybe having to find old redundent destoryers to chase after the Russian Navy because we have no ships in Scotland.
20 good (embarassing) reasons why a very well paid Secretary of State for Scotchlanders (sorry Pourtsmouth) is absolutely superfluous.
I think this calls for ‘bumpkin promotion’ to the lords and pronto surely ? Outstanding material for the YES campaign and promotion of independence.
Still, from what you say, you have to note his objectivity in choosing not to claim that the role of Secretary of State for Scotland has any advantage up here.
Maybe he’s singing a different tune in Portsmouth, of course.
“4. Greater financial protection for savers and pensioners.”
Isn’t the Savings Protection only guaranteed while Britain is part of the EU?
If so, seems Cameron’s EU referendum might be a bit of a blow to this promise from Sleepyheid ( love the picture btw)
Westminster finance on even worse terms than Wonga? Who’d have thunked it?
Of course, Wonga terms are transparent.
The saddest thing of all is this clown actually believes the lies and rubbish that he is saying.
Huzzah!
The behaviour of the No camp reminds me of a group of managers at a weekend team-building exercise. They have been split into teams and asked to undertake a task that involves writing lists on flip-charts. Their hearts are not really in what they have been asked to do, and everyone in the room knows it, but they go through the motions for the sake of their careers.
The team that has been asked to present twenty reasons for remaining in the UK is struggling, but they know nobody really cares what they put down on the flip-chart. The course facilitator won’t subject it to any scrutiny. It’s near the end of the day and they’re all looking forward to going to the bar. Eventually the scribe, Alistair, manages to complete a list of sorts. Everyone breathes a sigh of relief and the page gets stuck up on the wall with Blu-tack.
Simple yet to the point. I have made sure to share this for those who are undecided.
Post independence, nearly everything stands to be better from simple change overs, but the fight cannot stop there. There is so much to build on, so many old myths and propaganda to kill that will distract and hold us back from our squandered potential.
Yes yes and yes again!
Being a simple and somewhat sad individual, I still snigger every time I see “Secretary of State for Portsmouth”.
Is anyone listening?
Number 18 and the bombing of Scottish airports by England, Did Lord Fraser really say that or was he stitched up? If you read the pamphlet he was promoting at the time a very different picture emerges.
link to politeia.co.uk
Darling on BBC right now lying through his teeth, default, default blah blah and no challenge at all sigh..
I was thinking about the whole “independence means the end of devolution” thing recently and it occurred to me: the one thing that you get with devolution but not with either independence or the pre-devolution set-up, is two parliaments and twice as many jobs for politicians.
Obviously saying “independence means the end of devolution” makes no sense whatsoever if you think about devolution as something which gives powers to Scotland, but if you think about it as a gravy train for useless Labour career politicians, it makes perfect sense. The only question is: why on earth would they expect ordinary people in Scotland to care about their gravy train?
kinivie: yikes. Sounds like we’d be a but humped if a £zone did not transpire? I was also wondering about whether using the GBP ‘without agreement’ would present problems when it came to printing money and ‘lenders of last’ resort (whatever those are).
“12. International influence to make a positive difference through alliances.”
“Hey Vlad, old chap, sorry to be a pain, but do you think you could perhaps stop giving homosexuals such a jolly hard time? We’re old pals, aren’t we?”
“Nyet.”
Rev, you truly deserve a medal for taking time to respond to that silly idiot’s long list of pathetic ramblings. What utter pish. Such patience!
“Rev, you truly deserve a medal for taking time to respond to that silly idiot’s long list of pathetic ramblings.”
All part of the job description. Next month, send money.
It really is very worrying when you see these fine legal minds who have turned to politics because they were FA use as lawyers. Guess what they are even more useless at politics. Darling, Carmichael, Ming, Wallace and yon SLAB gangster from Cumbernauld Who wouldn’t know the truth if he fell over it. GOD HELP US.
In the event of a no vote, Scotland will raise debt via Wonga, it’s cheaper and safer than BOE.
This numpty is up at Stirling Uni today no-doubt tryin to force this pish down the throats of our young folk, would be interesting to know how he gets on….
As for “international influence” well we saw what that means yesterday, when the Syrian National Coalition met in Paris. The group of unelected/unkown Syrian figures, backed by the Saudi tryanny, proclaiming to the world that “Assad has no future in Syria”, with John Kerry centre-stage and wee Wullie Hague lookin somewhat disappointed, yet content to be reduced to hovering at the side hoping to be noticed by the cameras…
Well he never mentioned that independence would make your granny in England a foreigner or the war(s)… Yet! Really wonga rates are cheaper than our financial ties to the UK, now we all know. That fact alone will have traction with many DK’s.
I don’t envy him his job, but someones got to do it. 🙂
I’ll assume that Alistair Carmichael’s list has been agreed on by all concerned in the Palace Westminster. This isn’t some sort of practical joke is it?
3. Safer banks: Be careful with that argument about a trillion pound bail-out – it sound a bit like reinforcing the ” too poor” part of the No press releases.
By the way, didn’t Alastair Darling in the 2009 Pre-Budget statement tell Parliament the the eventual NET cost to UK public finances was only 10 Billion pounds?
link to telegraph.co.uk
7. More government spending per head in Scotland. I can see the slogan now – Vote independence or vote Wonganomics!
I do believe that the Secretary of State for Portsmouth originates from Islay as does Lord Haw Haw Robertson. Just what is it about Islay that produces these types who are in thrall to England. Must be the water as I”m told their whisky is good.
Oh dear Wings you truly are flying these days, so much material for our stupid, wee Yes Shetland page.
A thousand thank-you’s for all your hard work.
Can someone remind, how did this chap get this job exactly?
Not that I am complaining like. Is he due to go into the ring with Nicola again?
They will bite our hands off to be part of a currency union with them, Our exports (Oil and Gas,Whisky,Food, etc) massively contribute to the UK Balance of payments. (The UK has one of the worst balance of payments in the world) link to en.wikipedia.org
Remember if we don’t share a currency with them, then all the oil and gas, whisky etc they use will be imports to the rUK. that will add tens of billions to their balance of trade deficit.
There is also the small matter of 3bn pounds being deposited by Scottish banks in the BOE which they would have to pay back if we were not in a Sterling Zone. The reason that they made the announcement regarding guaranteeing Scotland’s share of the UK debt is that they are having difficulty persuading International investors that they will be solvent in the next year or so, they will go bust, a yes/no with not make any difference, although a yes vote will probably bring it forward. They basically are stuck between a rock and a hard place, to get International investors to continue to prop them up, they need to increase interest rates due to the risk, if they increase the interest rates, then the zombie UK economy will collapse.
Its only a matter of time, the best that they can hope for is that they can stave off calling in the IMF until after Sept 18th this year.
Naw Alistair I will take my chances with an Independent Scotland, I just don’t want to spend my declining years tilling the fields in a 21st century Medieval Type country the Tories and by default you and Labour are envisaging for the United Kingdom. Always was a modern person, don;t really like auld things. So I will take what Nicola says over you.
Surely there are some Labour MSP’s or MP’s who can see through all this shite and hopefully do the right thing by their country and come out in favour of YES, fuck just saw a pig flying past the window !
Jimsie
Don’t blame Islay for Lord Quisling, his dad was posted there as a policeman.
Yup, 20 pretty reasonable arguments to.. vote Yes.
That graph isn’t quite relevant though is it? Debt doesn’t seem to determine spending!
Blinking ridiculous.
Isn’t he known for having fingers in his ears?
Chewing on a chocolate biscuit he’s his own three wise monkeys. The best paid stuffed toy on the planet.
“13. UK contributes to humanitarian aid globally.”
You know, I’m almost with UKIP on this one (I can’t believe I just sad that). Why are we sending aid to places like Israel (who don’t really need it. How much of our foreign aid actually goes to something useful, rather than lining some dictator’s pockets) when we have the people starving in the streets?Surely we should be taking care of our own over “keeping up appearences”? (That applies to military spending as well, btw)
Just to summarise Alastair: debt rising – check; scary budget deficit – check; demonising the poor and anyone wanting to move here – check; positive case for the union – erm…
Illy – Don’t worry, we’ll soon be getting aid money
He forgot to mention this little nugget, let’s say it number 21, sad he can’t count
link to eveningexpress.co.uk
Handandshrimp: “Can someone remind, how did this chap get this job exactly?”
He was available.
20/ …………and there’s a good chance that much of that devolved powers will go if we vote to become another region of England
After reading this and what been said in the news ect ,, tell them to bolt , we are not listening to the lies and deceit any more , no longer will we be the crap they wipe from their shoes
@ Jingly Jangly. Ah son of a plod. Actually I”ve never been on Islay but have met normal people who come from there. Nonetheless they must feel a terrible shame having produced these two. It is terrifying to think that Haw Haw Robertson had his finger on the nuclear trigger and would have pressed it if the Americans had told him to.
@chalks: The UK is already getting foreign aid. What do you think the Red Cross is doing when it’s handing out food?
As far as I can tell, the “foreign aid” budget is for giving money to foreign friends (like Saddam Hussain, yes, we helped prop up his government before America declared it an enemy for us, same as Syria, same as goodness knows how many others there are that are happy being America’s doormat and so haven’t made the “terrorist nation” list yet)
They will bite our hands off to be part of a currency union with them, Our exports (Oil and Gas,Whisky,Food, etc) massively contribute to the UK Balance of payments
That uber-bullish opinion is certainly prevalent in the yes camp but, I wonder. This guy (no idea who he is, admittedly) is not in agreement. He has worked out that the balance of payments ‘problem’ for rUK is overstated:
link to scottisheconomywatch.com
@Illy – What country funds the British Red Cross like? My point is that we will soon be receiving foriegn aid money from other countries, just like the sort we give out to India….
Apologies O/T.
The Deputy First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has today (Monday) published 50 questions which those leading the anti-independence campaign in the referendum must answer about the consequences of voting No. These questions follow her speech at St Andrew’s University last Monday which set out this theme.
link to snp.org
I don’t how the Secretary of state for Portsmouth, can say this with a straight face, there is absolutely no grounds to say that Scots are better off as part of a union lead by buffoons, who have ran up a debt of £1.2 trillion pounds, a staggering amount of debt.
I see Nicola Strugeon has put forward 50 questions, that the Better Together camp must answer. These questions are aimed at what is on offer to Scots after the referendum in September, I’ve yet to discover what those 50 question are. though to be honest I’d be surprised if the Better Together camp were indeed willing to answer a single one of them.
@chalks: I wasn’t aware that the British Red Cross recieved a government grant. They seem to imply that they get lots of their money from individual donors. I would expect that they get most of it from a few rich folk wanting to spend some money on “good deeds” PR, rather than from ordinary people.
I was also under the mistaken impression that the Red Cross is an international organisation, and therefore the “British Red Cross” was an administrative unit, which up until recently, was mostly concerned with fundraising.
@Illy – You implied above that the UK already receives foriegn aid money, like the type of money the UK gov gives out to other countries…..that is what you are moaning about correct?
If so, I am merely pointing out that we do not currently receive foreign aid money from another country….as you have pointed out and what I was trying to get at, is that the Red Cross is funded from donations by people, not countries…..I’d imagine a large share of that money comes from the UK people….
Anyway, my point is, that very soon we will be receiving foreign aid money…..in the form of an IMF cheque.
It’s my own fault, I shouldn’t be sarcastic on the internet.
Another infographic on it’s way tonight.
Here’s a very brief clip of a young Angry Badger (in his ‘Labour No’ days)…….
His arguments against Nukes sound strangely familiar……..
Oh where oh where did it all go wrong Mr Darling…..? From this to advocating deeper cuts than Thatcher…..
link to news.bbc.co.uk
Perhaps not a “satire angle” Rev Stu – but how about an irony coefficient by His Portsmouthness emphasising multiple reasons for Independence – shooting fish in a barrel doesn’t come close to the hokum on display from BT & Co.
In a moment of madness last night I watched for as long as I could suffer – some foetal Minister from Home Office Security assisted by the towering intellect of Mundell being ‘questioned’ by Mr I Davidson and some other barely functioning committee members on the concerns of Scottish Independence exposing rUK to a fate worse than death due to “increased bureaucracy”.
All organised crime, fleeing criminals, drug cartels, car chases and illegal immigrants will be holed up in Scotland with PC Plod from down south incapable of collaring the miscreants without filling in the correct paper-work taking up to an average of “seven weeks” – even “months” to complete.
This bureaucratic set-up will of course cost Scotland zillions while we concurrently place England at a high security risk as we will be cut off from their computers ….. and we, of course, are too stupid have our own. However the Minister, on referral to a Westminster paper, was able to admit that the independent Scandinavian countries seemed to rub along quite well in terms of cross border cooperation and integrated systems. Mr Davidson was unimpressed.
All a sign that they are getting more desperate, do they know something we do not? I looked at Nicola’s 50 questions, I cannot wait to see their answers, I know I am joking, they can’t and won’t! or their hole in the ground will just get deeper, Johann will have to spend more time in the bunker, and Sarwar will be preparing to join dad in Pakistan.
Let’s be free !
I really wish whoever was tasked with writing out Nicola’s 50 questions had taken the time to proof-read them – especially before making them into a PDF…
“4. Greater financial protection for savers and pensioners.”
From the legislature that ended tax relief on pensions.
“6. Cheaper mortgages/insurance.”
Alastair Carmichael knows what the interest rates are going to be in five to ten years time?? :-O
I am surprised there wasn’t a “21. The convenience of driving on the left.”
Doug Daniel: Gordon Brown abolished boom and bust, remember. This is not a bust, it is just a periodic abberation in the steady moderate growth that Gordon Brown invented, when adjusted over the ‘golden cycle’ which has now been determined at two hundred and fifty years.
7. is my favourite. The comparison to a Wonga loan really does put it in perspective.
That is the real benefit of the union. They will loan our money back to us for a fee comparable to a pay day lender – what a great deal – who could resist?
O/T I do apologise.
This really says it all about IDS, and his plans for those less fortunate than him.
link to mirror.co.uk
This is your Better Together for you.
naebd
Brian Ashcroft, Husband of Wendy (Bring if on) Alexander. Labour party through and through and as impartial as the secretary of state of Portsmouth, although the former did publish some recent analysis that Scotland has contributed nearly 70billions pounds more than it got out of the UK than it got out in the last 30 years.
The balance of payments issue is important, as its money leaking out of the economy, if as at present the UK is borrowing over 100bn pounds per year, and 60bn pounds per year is leaving the economy to pay for goods sourced overseas, then it must have an effect on the health of said economy. read the following for why it matters.
link to economicshelp.org
are you people actually THIS dumb that you think an independent Scotland is a good idea? Im not British so without any bias and its BLATANTLY obvious that this is beyond suicide. this bull about Scotland being “backed by Oil” is utter shite. 95% of the Oil and Gas Revenue for the next 50 years until the industry will die anyway is going to come from decommissioning amd maintenance works which are TAX DEDUCTIBLE. The scottish government will not see a penny from those investment. You can also bet that Aberdeen will be abandoned by all big Operators within less than 5 years because why would they expose themselves to such economical suicide.
but hey there is always the agricultural sector to feed the nation with…LOL
This is nothing but a massive publicity stunt and going out on a limb im going to say even top members in the SNP have no interest in this becoming reality. the party has simply become victim of its own agenda.
“are you people actually THIS dumb”
I don’t normally allow obvious trolling, but this one was too good for the Trash folder.
Readers, enjoy, but please don’t get involved.
@ Clarinda – I watched that too. It was truly dire.
@ jpfife. Stitched up or no, and a pamphlet does not mean the same as ‘he didn’t say it,’ the following passage lifted from the link you posted says he’s not quite grasped a few salient points about the status of enclaves.
Moving the home fleet could be popular in the northern isles, who have never really seen themselves part of Scotland, and would welcome the Royal Navy base. Indeed, in the last (2010) election, neither Orkney nor Shetland voted for the nationalists. A future agreement might be that the northern isles remain part of the UK with their oil and gas fields being defended by the Royal Navy. That would be devastating in the short term to Scotland’s tax take when those oil fields in mainland Scottish waters are already in terminal decline, unlike those of Orkney and Shetland.
I think that counts as ‘not quite grasping reality.’
“are you people actually THIS dumb”
I’m thick as pigshit.
You can also bet that Aberdeen will be abandoned by all big Operators within less than 5 years
I have a conference call with TOTAL Aberdeen in 5 mins. I’ll ask.
Jingly Jangly, I’m sure balance of payments matters – presumably rUK would need to print a bit more money to cover the shortfall, meaning the GBP weakened a bit, making imports more expensive, exports more competitive, perhaps affecting their credit rating.
It’s interesting to hear who Ashcroft guy is – I wonder where he’s going wrong in his calculations.
Are they decommissioning the Clair Ridge project? That was quick, was Darling right about their only being a barrel of oil left?
Beastie, the usual retort to that (apart from the fact that it is an implausible scenario) is that as an enclave within another state’s waters Shetland/Orkney would not have oil reserves in their relatively puny waters.
The other scenario is independence for Orkney/Shetland but then – if that’s plausible, why aren’t they independent already?
Beastie: see this map I culled from the following, showing a possible maritime boundary for Orkney/Shetland were they to decide to become English (sorry, rUK) possessions: link to ejil.org
link to i.imgur.com
You can also bet that Aberdeen will be abandoned by all big Operators within less than 5 years
I asked. They guys I spoke to support independence and they think you are dumb. TOTAL are not worried about the EU, the £ or stuff like that. They’ve been told there’s no need to; all being worked out by the parties involved before the vote.
Alastair Carmichael.
Bag o’shite.
I don`t care to elaborate.
@Jingly Jangly
That piece you link to on the balance of payments glosses over some important issues, and puts undue emphasis on others, but it does correctly state that a fixed exchange rate system makes BOP issues a greater concern. An independent Scotland that used sterling would be in a fixed exchange rate system.
On the debt issue, pure comedy gold over at the Daily Mail: “Treasury guarantees all £1.4bn in debt over fear of interest rise”…
link to archive.is
Awh bless the poor, dumb souls…
If you want to be entertained, recommend grabbing your favourite drink, a bag of snacks and have a gander through the Daily Mail article on ‘England to take all Scotland’s Debts if it votes for independence’ That is the article headline. Of course the little Englanders are choking on their jellied eels and spewing forth the usual ill informed clap trap
link to archive.is
Ah beat me to it Kev ! lol
Having just read the link about bombing Scotland’s airports, surely if Scotland were invaded while part of the UK the RAF would do that anyway? A living-memory example was when the airfield at Port Stanley in the Falkland Islands was bombed despite the Falklands being British, because the Argentinians had invaded it. Why do these people make such asinine statements?
@OJ
I think you sound pretty British by such an arrogant stance, either that or a bit on the not so clever side so – no matter; but if your brave enough to elaborate on your point of origin for clarity of your argument?
Scotland has way more resources than the nasty oil as you suggest. Hey Ireland has found gold – who knows ?
Oilmen are in it for the money nothin less and there is still plenty of the Black stuff, (no civil wars or insurgencies in Scotland you see, like other parts of the world – so its easy money for them – perhaps just a bit more research next time ?)
If you need help commenting others will assist I’m sure.
Did you watch him reading it out on the telly. I’m not sure he was the scribe at the wee drinks’n’ideas party where this rubbish was all slapped down on wee post-its. It looked like he couldnae read some of the handwriting. What a paucity if talent the unionist parties must suffer from for this numpty to have got the job!
The welsh and northern Irish well be pleased to hear that England is taking on these debts.
Im not British so without any bias
I’m glad you let us keep this one Rev, I needed a laugh!
“…Northern Isles…defended by the Royal Navy…”
Comedy gold!
OJ, If scottish_skiers, admitting to being as thick as Pig Shit. Am a Fart in a Trance, am the collective Answer my friend is Blowing in the Wind, who,s joining in the chorus.
Sos Rev, fur disregarding the rule,s of engagement, sos, Scot Skier.
If it had been a former MP for Orkney and Shetland, Jo Grimond, I might have considered them but the whole point of the Independence debate is that we have in our Westminster MPs a bunch of numpties, who cannot, and could not because of the Westminster system, organise themselves let alone a country.
MI5, MI6 and GCHQ and Juan de Menezes dead. I can do without that thanks.
Gordoz, we’ve got some gold too! Our very own gold rush happened in Sutherland inland from Helmsdale. Went there during school and spent a day panning. As a momento we got a flake on a strip of cellotape to take home. Only many years later did it dawn on me, ” hang on, where did all the gold that we found go… all of us only got one flake each! “. Oh well, tech teacher bonus…
gordos, Ireland found Gold, shush, Scotland found Gold a long time ago, there is Gold in them there hill,s. its never been explored to any great extent. Perth / Lannermuir hill,s.
Ah dont want tae spoil awe you Winger,s fun on awe that drivel, but back on planet earth.We re the cunt,s that are paying fur they Clown,s in the Scottish Sect In A State,s office.
Never mind gold, or oil, Scotland has the resources that really matter: a decent sized population with a broad mix of skills and a well – though not as well as it could be – developed industrial base.
You know; the same resources that all other nations capable of prospering as independent states have. “Too wee and too poor” describes the intellectual capacity of Westminster and humanity of its policies.
Sorry guys – Wuzny gold – think it was brass we found wuz it no?
Daft bstard just got me riled !
when do you think the polls will start going in our favour?
Alistair “Acid Ali” Carmichael
gordoz, a half hour in a dark room, back tae the fore, lol
Point 7 – Spending per head “We do get more spending per head”.
This is disputed. There are no audited accounts of all visible, allocatable and non-allocated spending. Everything is obfuscated. Eg. Costs on UK national projects (which are almost approx 95% based in SE England) are shared between the regions and we know that Barnett consequences are only partly or sometimes never even added to devolved parliaments in return.
To paraphrase Marillian: We are losing on the swings and we are losing on the roundabouts!
Okay–here’s my ‘Carmichael Rebuff’. If anyone has anyone points they feel should be added, let me know and I’ll amend the PDF. Here it is:
link to scottcreighton.co.uk
Enjoy!
OJ ? … it’s a Troll trap (again !!)
*yawn*
[…] Inspired by Wings Over Scotland […]
Thanks for the inspiration Rev.
Jocky goes wonga
@Alex S
Seriously? After independence. Or if we could afford to by the system as the UK establishment appears to at the moment.
In my life, I have never seen such static polls on anything, over such a prolonged period (all saying the same thing, with nigh on the same figures).
Its like someone was fixing them or paying for that to happen, but governments in the western world don’t do that do they ? Polls aren’t rigged are they ? – no evidence. That couldn’t happen when Labour & Tories are in bed together ? Oh and dont forget the other guys Liberals or something.
Ephemeral Deception at 6.43
You are exactly right. We are talking about what is described as “identified public expenditure” which comprises between 60% and 70% of expenditure only and,of course,represents mainly the geographic differential in providing services in Scotland as against more densely populated areas down south.
The other percentage of Government spending,much of which is described as “national” expenditure is largely in the south east. In Scotland we receive for instance less than 60% of our population’s share of the vast defence expenditure and this is more or less general over lots of other of government expenditure. Were this “unidentified” or “national” expenditure to be added to Englands account it would show a much higher per head expenditure for south of the border.
There used to be figures produced on this. It would be useful of they were produced again,
@ Jingly Jangly can I share your article?
RE: Gold in N Ireland, note Tony Robinsons description of the assayed gold found…”pure British gold”!
link to natgeotv.com
Number 6.
We get charged higher insurance because of the flooding down south and the high crime rate in England’s inner cities.
He is a fud.
Sorry if this point has already been made re. the Wonga comparison. It really is a shocking state of affair that the SG could save itself some money if it dealt with Wonga instead of Whitehall. And that is even allowing for the inflated short-term interest rates that Wonga will be charging.
The Rev’s fact check gives a very clear picture of just what poor value the British state is for Scots tax payers. Time for a change.
creigs1707, naw ah canny think of any addition,s, when,s the debate wie Comikeekal, lol lamb,s tae the slaughter.
Is he on drug? He should be. Those who can do. Those who can’t become Unionist Politicans.
Workers are are dying in the Oil industry because Health & Safety rules are not being enforced by Unionist Westminster Politicans.
Twenty reasons that Scotland must stay in the union:
1. If Scotland votes for independence there will be a lot of unemployed ex-unionist politicians.
2. If Scotland votes for independence there will be a lot of unemployed Brit-Scot Lords.
3. If Scotland votes for independence a lot of MPs won’t be able to swan up and down to London on expenses.
4. If Scotland votes for independence a lot of unelected Scottish Lords won’t be able to pocket £300 for every day they show up at westminster.
5. If Scotland votes for independence westminister won’t have anywhere to park their nuclear weapons.
6. If Scotland votes for independence it could become expensive for rich landowners in Scotland to come here to shoot things
7. If Scotland votes for independence westminster won’t have oil and whisky to underpin their AA credit rating and failing economy.
8. If Scotland votes for independence westminster simply won’t be able to spend so much money on London infrastructure projects.
9. If Scotland votes for independence the Treasury won’t be able to pocket all the Crown Estates incomes from Scotland.
10. If Scotland votes for independence the Treasury won’t be able to pocket all the oil licencing proceeds.
11. If Scotland votes for independence the Treasury won’t be able to pocket Scotland’s income tax and VAT.
12. If Scotland votes for independence the Treasury won’t have all Scotland’s Corporation Tax to spend.
13. If Scotland votes for independence they won’t be able to subsidise the armed forces by about two-thirds of what they contribute.
14. If Scotland votes for independence westminster will have to find some way of making up their shortfall in energy generation other that stealing it from Scotland.
15. If Scotland votes for independence there will be no chance of westminster selling of Scottish Water to a wealthy foreigner.
16. If Scotland votes for independence westminster won’t be able to privatise the National Health Service in Scotland for profit.
17. If Scotland votes for independence westminster won’t be able to trade Scottish resources for the Treasury’s European Union rebate.
18. If Scotland votes for independence westminster won’t be able to steal Scottish farmer’s European Union farm subsidies to distribute across the whole UK.
19. If Scotland votes for independence the Treasury won’t be able to pocket Scotland’s Airport Passenger Tax.
20. If Scotland votes for independence westminster won’t have as much global clout and could even lose it’s permanent seat on the Security Council.
Then there’s the BBC, Vehicle Tax, Unaffordable illegal wars, and HS2.
There, I think these are all correct and I am certain that I have done as much research as the Secretary of State for Scotland. I’m sure I’ve forgotten something though. 😉
Hmmm. Moderated off the Herald.
I don’t think I broke any of their rules.
I thought my reasons were a lot more truthful than the SoSfS’s. 🙁
So Rev, let me get this rig”6. Cheaper mortgages/insurance.” while for years 365 x 24/7 our UK/FSA regulated “3. Safer banks.” were playing (bonus enhancing) tunes on the LIBOR rate.
X sticks, re your No.18. Didnt they redistribute Sottish Agri funds amongst England, not whole of UK?
I think it was the whole of the UK. (Note to self, check Scottish Farmer article again.)
Big Hullo to all
Point 7 taking complicated figures down to a far more meaningful Wonga comparison is the way forward, i would love to see more of this as it has far more impact.
“free from poverty,ignorance and conformity” A Carmichael in 2011
link to winkball.com
he now would like us to
1. Accept even more poverty.
2. Be ignorant by way of the BT debate suppression going on.
3. Do not think for yourself just be scared and vote no (i.e conform).
many thanks Rev for your stellar writings and thoughts yet again
@Doug Daniel:
“How on earth did Gordon Brown manage to have a budget deficit before the banking crash?”
Land wars in Asia aren’t cheap.
[…] for every £100 that Scotland borrows (extra spending), we are charged £145 (revenues raised). As one poster succinctly put it, if you borrowed £100 from Wonga for the maximum loan period you would only be charged […]
[…] from http://wingsoverscotland.com/taking-our-best-shot/ […]
[…] spending. Wings over Scotland did some excellent work on this so I won’t regurgitate it (link) but basically in the union we are tied into a deal that’s worse than Wonga. For every 100 […]