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Some brief thoughts on Scottish Labour

Posted on January 14, 2016 by

Number 2 in a series.


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    279 to “Some brief thoughts on Scottish Labour”

    1. Macart says:

      Brilliant! 😀

    2. MajorBloodnok says:

      I think there’s bits of ground up Tory Party in that box as well.

    3. frogesque says:

      I love how artists can convey a succinct message in a few strokes and panels.

      Does oor Kez have the capacity to embrace it? Nah!

    4. Bob Mack says:

      For Dads binoculars read ——-Labour policy.

      She has never stopped with the( mend it for now) and they will never notice approach.

      Dust to dust.

    5. Ruby says:

      Many a true word etc.

      Very witty!

    6. Mosstrooper says:

      Ohh! Sneeze Hobbes,…. please, sneeze.

    7. awkwardboy says:

      Political progress goes “Boink”.

    8. Chic McGregor says:

      Great parallel.

      Another good one is the old Piranha Brothers MPFC sketch.

      One brother also had an imaginary ‘friend’. I say ‘friend’ but it was really an imagined nemesis born of paranoid delusion which took the form a of giant hedgehog. Size variable depending on stress levels.

      So I give you Dugdale Piranha and the SNP (Spiny Norman Party)

    9. yesindyref2 says:

      OT (hope it’s not too soon in the thread)
      From the National, Learmonth:

      “Phil Boswell’s interests now include his shares in Boswell and Johnston which ceased trading in 2011 and in which he was a director.”

      The “ceased trading” isn’t even acceptable for someone who posts below the line, let alone from a “journalist”.

      If journalists are going to write articles, would they please make some little effort to understand how businesses work, how Company’s House works, and how HMRC view such as “ceased trading”, let alone the actual business owner(s)?


    10. Edward says:

      Dugdale wheeling out the hectoring rant that APD is somehow a tax on airlines
      Doing away with APD , according to gormless Dugdale would be a tax cut to “big airlines”

      Is she really that stupid??
      Does Dugdale not understand that its passengers that pay APD not airlines

      It would be passengers, you me and anyone who fly’s will benefit from a cut or getting rid off APD

    11. bobajock says:

      I’ll get my coat …

    12. Luigi says:

      Get back in yer box!

    13. Wulls says:

      i have no words 🙂
      We have a theory offshore …… If it’s not broke don’t try to fix it. And if it is broke keep trying to fix it until no-one can fix it. That’s pretty much where I see the Labour Party right now.
      They broke it by siding with the Tories.
      Johan Lamont broke it.
      Jim Murphy broke it a little bit more.
      Kezia Dugdale thinks more of the same will fix it.
      The reality is it is broken beyond the ability of anyone in the Party’s administration to fix.
      Sympathy is a little thin on the ground. Survival is even more remote.
      I’m looking at the total disintegration of Scottish Labour in 4 short months.
      If so it will be the longest funeral on record.
      And the only one where the deceased does not realise it had in fact passed.

    14. Ken500 says:

      Labour built 6 houses. Scottish SNP Gov built 6,000 a year. 30,000 rent/social houses. They intend building 50,000 more. Additional help to buy schemes. Saving and part share schemes.
      10,000? other houses are built a year.

      150,000 people are on council houses lists – 50,000 families.

      50,000 died each year in Scotland – 30,000 houses? + 16,000 house built + empty houses
      = 50,000+ houses.

    15. One_Scot says:

      Jeez, 69 seems to be a worrying age to reach.

    16. Dr Jim says:

      Ah want ma share of the APD money
      Everybody shut up and gae me it NOW

      Kezia says it’s there and ah want it, and ah want other things as well,.. Right.. ,Well.. , OK..

      And next week at the Holyrood Bowl we present “Aladdin”

      full supporting cast!

    17. Ken500 says:

      Curtice lying through his teeth. The Pollsters mis-analysed the Polls

      Rev Stu has already showed how the Polls were mis-analysed and the statistics were miscalculated. To (deliberately) manipulate the result. ‘The piper calls the tune’.The Pollsters are manipulating the Polls for money. Corruptly making £Millions and wasting £Millions of public and private money. They are fraudsters. Lacking proper regulation. Gerrymandering. Thry should ban public Polls in the Purdah period. They are paid to manipulate the result.

      The Bookie’s best friend, probably getting back handers or bribes from them. They cheated the Independence supporters out of £Millions at the Referendum/GE.

    18. Petra says:

      I see we’ve moved on again! I posted this on the last thread but seems it would be more appropriate to post on here.

      Kezia Dugdale has reached an all time low at FMQs. She’s now putting on her pathetic ‘sad act’ and ‘dragged’ a dying man, Gordon Aikman suffering from motor neurone disease, into the fray. In comparison numpty Johann Lamont is beginning to look good now. Dugdale’s also come up with another way (4th) of using the APD (non) money … to help carers! I look forward to seeing some of the most hypocritical, ingnoramuses ever to grace Holyrood seats just fade away in May.

      Nicola Sturgeon, in her usual highly intelligent and extremely professional way, TOTALLY humiliated Dugdale / Labour Party (and others) today. She’s also asked all other parties to produce their economic policies within the next two weeks. That should be a laugh!

      It would be great if someone could provide a link to FMQs.

    19. call me dave says:

      Todays FMQ has just come up.
      Too long to copy and paste individually but it’s here as 14th Jan..

    20. Ken500 says:


      google (or whatever) OIL & GAS TAXATION

      Then search – Income Tax receipt – Statistics

      ‘From – Oil and Gas Authority (https:/

      FIRST PUBLISHED: 30 December 2012

      LAST UPDATED: 9 October 2015, see all updates

      PART OF: Oil and gas finance and taxation (https:/ and Oil and gas (https:/www.govuk/topic/oil-and-gas)

      Taxation of exploration for, and production of, oil and gas in the UK and on the UK Continental Shelf.

    21. Graham MacLure says:

      The dismal prospect for Lab is that if by some miracle they managed to create an electable party in Scotland they would find it wasn’t NuLab or NuNuLab but an SNP tribute party.
      They lost the left of centre ground in their quest for power and others more competent than them now occupy that space.
      That’s life.

    22. Lesley-Anne says:

      Bob Mack says:
      14 January, 2016 at 11:59 am

      For Dads binoculars read ——-Labour policy.

      Oh come on Bob you are kidding … right? 😉

      I mean Labour actually having a policy … ANY policy … is a joke … Right? 😉

      Seriously … Labour actually have a policy … you sure about that Bob? 😉

      Have you not just misunderstood this Labour *ahem* policy for the latest rota on the Tea/Coffee making list? 😀

      Ken500 says:
      14 January, 2016 at 12:38 pm

      Labour built 6 houses. Scottish SNP Gov built 6,000 a year. 30,000 rent/social houses. They intend building 50,000 more. Additional help to buy schemes. Saving and part share schemes.
      10,000? other houses are built a year.

      Have you not heard the latest Ken? 😉

      Ken Macintosh is promising to build 60,000 homes if Labour return to power in May. Now don’t everyone start jumping up and down with joy here remember in 2011 they tried the old “anything you can we can do better” tactic and were rather soundly thrashed. So this promise of 60,000 new homes is, in my view, heading down the same road. 😀

      Now that wee Kezia has, apparently, moved on to number four in terms as to what she will use the NON money from the NON cut to A.P.D., namely helping carers, I was wondering … maybe it is about time we had a wee book running, or bingo card made up, of what the options are to be numbers five, six and seven on the Kezia Dugdale “I’ll use A.P.D. my way” approach to conning the electorate. 😀

    23. Ken500 says:

      @ Taxation of exploration for, and production of, oil and gas in the UK and on the UK Continental Shelf,

      The tax regime which applies to exploration form and production of, oil and gas in the UK and on the UK Continental SHelf (UKCS) currently comprises the following three elements,described briefly in turn below

      # Ring Fence Corporation Tax
      # Supplementary Charge
      # Petroleum Revenue Tax

      More details than given below can be found in the relevant sections of the Oi, Raxation Manueli


      This is calculated in the same way as the standard corporation tax applicable to all companies but with the addition of a ‘ring fence’ and the availability of 100% first year allowances for virtually all capital expenditure. The ring fence prevents taxable profits from oil and gas extraction in the UK and the UKCS being reduced by losses from other activities or by excessive interest payments. The current main rate of tax on ring fence profits, which is set separately from the rate of mainstream corporation tax, is 30%.
      @ Supplemrntary Charge

    24. Ken500 says:


      This is an additional charge on a company’s ring fence profits (but with no deduction for finance costs). With effect from 1 January 2915 the rate is 20%. From 1 April 2015, the charge to supplementary charge may be reduced to zero on a slice of production income bythr investment allowance, cluster area allowance or onshore allowance.


      Thus is a field-based tax charged on profits arising from oil and gas production from individual oil fields which were given development consent before 16 March 1993. The current rate of PRT is 50%; (i.e. 50%) this will fall to 35% from 1 January 2016. PTR is deductible as an expense in computing profits chargeable to ring fence corporation tax and supplementary charge.


      The marginal tax rate is 75% (67.5% from 1 January 2016) on income from fields paying PRT 50% for all other fields.

    25. Scott says:

      What has happened? no mention of FMQs on BBC Scotland lunch time news is this because Dugdale has spent APD to many times and no SNPbad stories to report.

    26. Robert Peffers says:

      Strangely enough, just as I was signing back into wings, after watching FMQs, a wee thought was going through my mind.

      It was that I was unsure if the unruly rabble sitting behind Kezia Dugdale were best described as desk-bangers or heid-bangers.

      After debating it with myself for a moment I decided it had to be both. However, it was as two separate descriptions and not as, “Head bangers oan the desk”.

      Mind you, anyone who is taken in by Kezia’s arguments must also come under the same classifications. As political arguments go the Labour in Scotland’s views are indeed the products of intense heid banging proportions.

      How on Earth can anyone be confused as to who pays APD? It is a bit like claiming that the Road Fuel Duty the customer pays at the forecourt pump is a tax on the oil drilling companies or the VAT on the items a household pays at the till is a tax on the supermarkets.

      It just cannot be true that the entire Labour in Scotland branch of the London Labour Party haven’t got at least one sane member who can point out that APD is levied on the customer and collected by the companies on behalf of the UK Government.

    27. Jack Murphy says:

      OT.Today’s First Minister’s Questions now available in the Scottish Parliament’s TV Archive:

    28. Clapper57 says:

      APD under SLAB seems to mean Abundant Political Dosh or SLAB are Artificial Political Doughnuts or Arses Punt Dross.

      Is APD under SLAB the new Magic Beans and will they be forever living in political Never Never Land ?

      I am sure there is many a winger who could identify SLAB peeps with characters from fairy tales, Pinocchio could fit James Kelly ( wooden, as in speech ) or Baillie ( nose grows with each statement ).

      I think , where SLAB are concerned, that this is one fairy tale that will most definitely not end happily ever after .

    29. call me dave says:

      Marwick rebukes the party leaders for eating up the time at FMQs and not letting other MSPs get a word in. 🙂

      From what I saw Dugdale was certainly eaten up, masticated and spat out…again!

      Love Calvin and Hobbes got a few of their books in the cupboard and they always cheer me up.

      Repairing the binoculars wont as the Labour head office in London cant really see as far as Scotland and the ‘Scottish’ labour lot look through the wrong end when they get a chance to use them.

    30. mogabee says:

      I’ve given up listening to Kezia, AND Labour AND her “outrage” AND the way she, as Lamont did, uses the public for their political stunts. Watching FMQ’s I turn the sound off when she rises..

      I cannot recommend that enough 😀

    31. Bob Mack says:

      I was thinking of flying to Brazil next year,but if Labour get in power my air passenger duty will be the same as the defence budget for a European nation.

    32. Ken500 says:


      The RFES( assists companies that do not yet have sufficient taxable income for ring fence corporation tax purposes against which fully to set their exploration, appraisal and development costs. The RFES currently increases the value of losses carried forward from one accounting period to the next by a compound 10% a year for a maximu of 10 years,not necessarily consecutively.

      Brief details of former elements of the regime are given in the footnotes to the table of Government Revenues from UK OiL and GAS Production at Government revenues from UK oil and gas production (

      # Oil and gas finance and taxation (

      # Oil and gas (

    33. Robert Peffers says:

      @Petra says: 14 January, 2016 at 1:00 pm:

      ” … It would be great if someone could provide a link to FMQs.”

      Here’s the Holyrood TV link but it has not been great of late : –

      Perhaps you could be better with the BBC IPlayer link or the BBC’s, “Democracy Live”, links.

    34. Inverclyder says:

      All this about APD would actually be funny if it wasn’t for the fact that Dugdale and the last stand of the Labour MSP’s actually believe it is all possible.

      You can just imagine them back in their offices saying to each other, “That was her telt. I was pure brilliant so a wiz”.

      Anyone watching any of this who are undecided about May would be out of their mind to think that Labour in Scotland are in any way capable of running Scotland.

      SNP Bad? Labour completely hopeless!

    35. Helena Brown says:

      One_Scot, as someone heading that way I am beginning to think I better start lying about my age, shame about Alan Rickman.
      I take it Kezia has continued with her APD buying power, I have had to stop watching FMQ as it is dangerous for my sanity and blood pressure. I like the cartoon, and Wulls I agree with every word.

    36. Grouse Beater says:

      Listened to Scottish FM question time as I was driving. Dugdale has upped her presentation skills considerably since I last tuned in, but still it’s nil points for content.

    37. Ken500 says:


      This page, maintained by the Oil and Gas Authority ( (OGA), gives Onky a high level overview of the UK’s upstream fiscal regime. More detailed information on the regime is available from HM Revenues & Customs (https//

      The OGA contact for further information is:

      Mike Earp
      3 Whitehall Place
      SW1A 2HD

      Email: mike [dot] earp [at] oga [dot] gsi [dot] gov [dot] uk

      Tel: 0300 068 5784

      Government revenues from UK oil and gas production (

    38. schrodingers cat says:



      peter bell puts the boot into bella for spreading lies about Nicola

    39. Dorothy Devine says:

      One_Scot , as a nervous 69 year old, with the ” everything comes in threes” attitude ,I will be being exceptionally careful of myself.

      Really sad that my favourite ” baddie” has shuffled off the stage , however I am not inconsolable nor am I about to rush out and buy flowers since that would involve crossing a busy road to get to the florists !

      I will keep my grief to myself not inflict it on anyone else .
      I hope the corporate media will do the same.

    40. geeo says:

      I was having wee think today about how labour could raise some ACTUAL money.

      They could charge people who use aeroplanes to travel/go on holiday etc.

      After all, if they can afford to have fancy holidays they can pay a wee bit more for the privilege surely !

      They could call it….APD …Air PASSENGER Duty….not to be confused with APD….Airlines Paying Duty….?

    41. ahundredthidiot says:

      I had no luck trying to claim my PPI

      Who do I phone to claim my APD?


      Or will it be the SNPs fault if I don’t get it!

    42. Fred says:

      FMQ, Dugdale sounds like a wee lassie at the school while Macintosh is the roverbial man-of-straw!

    43. Lanarkist says:

      Great cartoon, great series of cartoons!

      I like the idea though of the glue, lots of it!

      Mix copious quantities of glue with the dust remnants of the binoculars and with patience and a little practice you could fashion a fairly accurate representation of the original object.

      It would look the same and possibly feel similar to the original set to handle, but, on closer inspection would fail to fulfill its function in totality!

      Bit like the Labour Party in Scotland Accounting Unit really!

      No amount of glue is going to make SLab electable again. It is incapable of functioning like the “original”.
      (pre new Labour, not sure how far back you would have to go for this loose definitions).

      Oh, oh I’ve got a sneeze coming on, where’s the glue?

    44. Lesley-Anne says:

      Oh 😉

      I’ve just realised … in answer to one of my earlier posts I think I know what number FIVE on the list of Kezia Dugdale’s plans for A.P.D. are 😉

      Wee Kezia will use A.P.D. to pay for Ken Macintosh’s 60,000 homes! 😀

    45. Inverclyder says:

      69 is the new 27.

    46. Cherry says:

      @Dorothy Devine

      Think you might be ok with things coming in three(s). I think Lemmy of Motorhead passed a couple of weeks ago. He had just turned 70 by about 4 days.

      So get yourself out there the Angel of death has missed you 😉

    47. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      I did a post around 2.35. Last post showing was at 2.31. Kept refreshing he page and, in the past 10 minutes or so, new posts have appeared, timed at 3.01 to 3.08. No posts for 30 minutes on the main page? Strange.

      Onyhoo, i pointed out the FMQ’s and other other stuff can be watched on the Scottish Parliament’s YouTube channel. It’s relatively glitch-free, compared to the web site.

      Realised what I did – forgot to strip out the h.t.t.p.s.etc.

    48. sensibledave says:

      Off Topic

      I haven’t commented for a while as most posts have not been particularly relevant to me.

      I just saw an article on the Huffington Post site at

      … which is interesting.

      The subject matter is how most of the polls from the last GE got it wrong. In summary, and logically, it argues that the pollsters asked the wrong people and therefore got a skewed result.

      They predominantly spoke to the people that they could get hold of on the first call – so those that were “busy” or were not answering the phone – featured less!

      Petty basic errors!

    49. Ken500 says:

      Willy Young is considering putting up council tax in Aberdeen. After wasting £Millions/Billions of taxpayers money. He claims Aberdeen are underfund from Scottish Gov,. A lie. They were for over thirty years under Labour dominated Cosla. The Scottish Gov are increasing allocation in line with other Local Authority. The Health Boards has got more allocated finds in line with other Health Boards. The SNP Scottish Gov has allocated funds to the essential AWPR £Millions. An Olympic Pool which can be used by Olympic swimmers has been built.

      Willy Young (Labour got 16,000 votes out of 200,000? Electorate.) The first thing thing they did on taking Office was to put up their Remuneration. £65Million was spent renovation Council Offices.

      Labour/Unionist/Green are spending £Millions (debt) on the most grotesque awful carbuncle in the City Centre.It was better the way it was and that was bad enough. £107Million with a cost of £Millions to lease back for thirty years. Wasting £Millions. They abandoned the fully funded (£80Million Gift) UTG Project to pedestrianse the City, creating an attractive walkway throughout the City. People would have come out of their cars to walk throughout the City with cycle, disable and family access. There would have been less congestion and lower emission levels. Emission levels are already too dangerously high in the City,

      Young and Co are planning an ECC centre costing £Million (£300Million+) with no business case. A total waste of money. £26Million was spent paying off ECC debts. £33Million is being spent renovation a Art Gallery, destroying the unique marble staircase. It will be shut for three years. The fully funded scheme to build a new community football club (which could incorporate ECC
      facilities?) was blocked. It would have been build on the South side of the City with less through travel into the City causing congestion.

      A new road/bridge is being built over the Don. A total waste of £Millions. It was unnecessary if a road:bridge had not be sold off by the Council and closed by Housing Developers at Grandholm. Causing mass traffic problems. The new road was not necessary because the AWPR is being built which would aleviate and solve the traffic problems. Labour/Unionists in thevCity voted against the by-pass road for over thirty years and LibDem/Greens in the Shire blocked it for 15 years. Greens wasted £Millions with Appeals and Inquiries. Delaying it and doubling the cost. A 15C Landowner funded the protest. .

      Willy Young and Co are liars. Thry have been sanctioned many times and are not fit for public office. They are a disgrace. Any unlawful action to spite the SNP. That’s the mentality. Wasting £Millions/Billions of public money. Against the majority wishes and the public interest. They should get arrested. If they put up the council tax they are toast. They are toast, anyway.

    50. frogesque says:

      Considering the junk, booze and vile currys we got through in our teens and twenties it’s amazing any of us 60/70 year olds are still alive, with or without marbles intact!

      Watched FMQs, Kez dear, your not even worthy of third slot.

    51. Ken500 says:

      Lost interest in Bella (well named) long ago. Too Small minded. Bateman deletes and bans. Very BBC’ish.

    52. chitterinlicht says:

      Watching KD on FMQ today was a low point in Scottish politics for me to be honest.

      It really was pish poor vacuous stuff. Constant attacks on wee picture items that distract and suck all the energy away from the big important stuff. WM tories must be laughing their heads off.

      I sometimes don’t know how the SNP can be arsed turning up but they have to. Be seen to govern sensibly with only some of the levers of state and hang on in against cuts from WM, daily attacks and hope, in time, they can pull the independence rabbit alive and viable out a hat.

      Has any government anywhere ever had to deal with such a constant volume of pettiness and poverty of opposition ?

      Pretty sure it is their strategy to bore us to death so as we lose interest.

      No going to though -eyes wide open cannot be shut.

      SNP vote 1

      SNP vote 2.

      because at the end of the day i actually believe that the SNP have the best interests of the people living in Scotland as their central focus.

      The other parties did not believe in the people of Scotland to make a go of state hood so why are they surprised that these very same voters no longer believe in them?

      Let us vote them out in May.

      PS federalism can fuck off too.

    53. Petra says:


      @ Ken500 says at 3:22 pm …. Aberdeen

      Ken it sounds as though the situation is TOTALLY out of control there. Surely the residents will complain bitterly if Willy Young attempts to put up the Council Tax?

      I haven’t been to Aberdeen for some time now. I hear people mention the ‘carbuncle’. What is that? A block of flats?

    54. SNP debating Space Policy and reform of House of Lords,yet again excellent speeches by our representatives esp Martin Docherty,

      Red and Blue Torys not turning up for the debates through petty hatred of any thing to do with the SNP and Scotland.

    55. mealer says:

      What was Kez whining about today? What’s she wanting to do with the non existent APD “money” this week? I don’t think anyone can be bothered with her anymore.Especially in the Labour Party.

    56. Capella says:

      Watched FMQs, thanks for links.
      What is most important, and I hope the Telegraph will have an article on this tomorow, is the jacket the FM was wearing. I’m pretty certain it was a dark blue Harris Tweed. But there was no designer label visible. Can anyone confirm?

      Ruth’s jacket was also quite smart but Kezia is obviously shopping in Primark, perhaps trying to upstage David Cameron and his Azda wellies.

      @ Ken500 thanks also for the links. I am ploughing through the info but not entirely much the wiser! Tax is a mystery wrapped in an enigma. I don’t even know what marginal tax is! Dunce.

    57. Capella says:

      @ frogesque
      As the old blues man said, “If I’d known I was gonna live so long I’d have taken better care of myself.”

    58. call me dave says:

      An enjoyable and amusing distraction.

      It’s politics Jim but not as we know it.

    59. Grouse Beater says:

      Ken“Bateman deletes and bans. Very BBC’ish.”

      Ha ha! Incisive remark. But didn’t think Bateman would stop discussion. Bit disappointing for an open blog site.

    60. Ken500 says:

      There was a Co opie Arcade in Loch Street, Aberdeen. It could have been converted into a mini ‘convent garden’. The infamous Sewell demolished it. The Labour cocaine bra wearer, Socialist Lord. The Bredero scheme. Built the grotesque Co op, now John Lewis building. A ship – Why? It could be considered unique for it’s ugliness. Like Sewell. Did he ever get charged? Non? Crooks, Unionist politicians and Lords. All above the Law Committing unique fraud.

    61. Capella says:

      Bella Caledonia has some excellent articles, such as this one by James Kelman on James Connolly:

      “We contend with sectarianism, racism and assorted prejudice; historical misrepresentation, disinformation, falsification, and occasional outright lies, alongside everyday British State propaganda.
      As a Protestant boy growing up in Glasgow the name of James Connolly meant little to me.”

    62. Dorothy Devine says:

      Cherry, thanks for the words of comfort- I shall dance across the Main road without a care!

      I forgot about poor Lemmy – obviously the corporate media did not consider him to be godlike / genius/ best of british or worthy.

    63. Iain More says:

      Off topic

      Shame about Rickman, I have no idea what his views on Indy were but I thought him a great actor and a very watchable one. I doubt if even he could salvage the infantile fantasy that is Harry Potter though as I didn’t watch the films and I wouldn’t watch them either, the first book was more than enough for me.

    64. Iain More says:

      Petra says:
      14 January, 2016 at 1:00 pm

      “Kezia Dugdale has reached an all time low at FMQs. She’s now putting on her pathetic ‘sad act’ and ‘dragged’ a dying man, Gordon Aikman suffering from motor neurone disease, into the fray.”

      He was a vocal UKOKer! The Brit Nat Brainwashing Corp previously used him to have a lengthy SNP BAD tirade. They will no doubt use him again to have a repeat performance of that same tirade.

    65. Cherry says:


      Oooh! Don’t go ‘dancing in the street’ or you could end up lying in a hole dug by the ‘ace of spades’ 😉

      See what I did there! 😉

    66. gus1940 says:



    67. twathater says:

      Watched FMQ I agree with all comments regarding Kezia and the rest of the TWATS, but one thing really gets my goat can they not get rid of Marwick, to me she is a total embarrassment to the Parliament, she always looks as if she wishes she were somewhere else, and that sparrows arse mouth of hers always looks as though she’s been sookin on something vile

    68. Jamie Arriere says:

      Those brief thoughts on Scottish Labour are more fulsome than any I give them these days.

      Oh, and look who else is 69? Donald Trump. (Please if there’s a God…)

      He wouldn’t want to be a septuagenarian anyway. Probably wants them all to stay in Septuagenaria until they find what the hell’s going on 😉

    69. Robert Graham says:

      Thanks to all for posting the link to FMQs u/tube channel , quite honestly after watching the previous encumbent of the Labour Party making a right Arse of herself on a weekly basis , when she stood up there were groans and sighs and that was from her own side , the current idiot takes FMQs to a whole different level , that fekn stoopid gawky look before she opens her gob would put you off your dinner , again thanks for the warning I will try and avoid it like the plague .

    70. Craig MachAonghais says:


      “Kezia Dugdale has reached an all time low at FMQs. She’s now putting on her pathetic ‘sad act’ and ‘dragged’ a dying man, Gordon Aikman suffering from motor neurone disease, into the fray.”

      While I have every sympathy for anyone going through what Mr Aikman is going through right now, I suspect he is more than happy to be used by Unionist champions like Keziabreak to denigrate all things SNP. After all, he is the current BBC poster boy for all things terminal, where they make sure they highlight his work for Bitter Together…if, as it is claimed all he is hoping for is to improve care for sufferers of this terrible condition, why on earth bring up his work for BT at all? In his position I would have insisted they keep my political views out of my charity efforts, but he was very happy to have the BBC highlight his.

    71. velofello says:

      69 years of age is akin to “the wall” in marathon running, around 70% distance. So endure the short discomfort, and you keep going to enjoy life.

      Discomfort? What really pisses me off is young kids passing me on stairs taking two at a time. Click their heels you say? I was a dab hand at that at the fitba.

    72. gus1940 says:

      Re Tricia Marwick’s plea for brevity from the party leaders – is it carved in stone that FMQs should be restricted to 30 minutes?

      Can I suggest the following:-

      Extend it to a whole hour starting at 11.30 followd by a 30 minute studio review instead of going over to WM for Brillo.

    73. Orri says:

      I’ve nothing against Labour putting forward proposals for how they might reallocate Scotland’s revenues. Not removing APD implies no change. What’s missing from their argument is any challenge to the SNP as to what would get cut. My only conclusion is that the aim would be for a increase in use on existing routes with more total revenue and Labour have reason to believe that might pan out.

      So the choice they give us between an attempt to increase the money available to do at least some of the things on their wish list at a risk to current spending or a certainty that cuts will be made.

    74. Petra says:

      @ Iain More at 4:23pm ” … Petra .. “Kezia Dugdale has reached an all time low at FMQs. She’s now putting on her pathetic ‘sad act’ and ‘dragged’ a dying man, Gordon Aikman suffering from motor neurone disease, into the fray.”

      ”He was a vocal UKOKer! The Brit Nat Brainwashing Corp previously used him to have a lengthy SNP BAD tirade. They will no doubt use him again to have a repeat performance of that same tirade.”

      Yeah I know that Iain. Maybe I should have mentioned that in my previous post. From what I can gather he was the former Director of Research for Better Together. I’m sure he’s been quite happy for Dugdale to use him / his situation but at the end of the day she’s the Leader of her party and made the VERY poor decision to do just that. Additionally many people will have no idea that there is this connection between them, nor will they know that Nicola Sturgeon has done her utmost to help him (and many others in his situation). It just highlights how manipulative Dugdale is. More than anything UTTERLY contemptible. A sure sign that she’s not fit to lead a dance never mind a political party.

      I’ve been watching the Commons discussion on House of Lords Reform. NO Libdems, 6 Tories and 1 Labour MP. There are more SNP MSPs in the House than the rest put together. It’s an absolute disgrace.

      Our SNP MSPs have done us all proud as usual, in particular Martin Docherty. (finished around 16:45)

    75. Dr Jim says:

      My fragrant lady wife uses Kesianomics all the time
      eg: I was going to buy this lovely bracelet but changed my mind when I saw a lovely necklace so with the money I’d saved from not buying the bracelet I just got the necklace and still had enough left over for coffee

      So that was good eh?

      I smile, then she smiles, coz we both know

      She could of had a toastie as well…Kezianomics..Aahh

    76. Valerie says:


      Thanks for links. Following Peter now, and have left comments on Bella, as its turned into a hatefest there. Peter says they deleted him, so not only a platform for PIES, but they delete what doesn’t suit??

      So sick of this bullshit from alleged Indy supporters, who are ignoring the blue and red Tories.

    77. DerekM says:

      Leave Tricia alone twat she does a great job and you would look bored and look like you had sucked a sour ploom if you had to listen to the yoons talking pish all day.

      Ah more spend from the APD magic money tree,i really need to get me one of those trees,why are we in a recession if we have this magic tree,own up who is hoarding all the money,i bet its those bloody westminster lot again.

    78. Conan the Librarian™ says:


      Anyone on the Herald this afternoon? One ‘peter kelly’ put a post up which ‘shaun gisby’ tore apart. It disappeared.

      A forelorn hope for a screenshot?

    79. Kenny says:

      I think Marwick is totally brilliant. She rules with an iron rod and, as a result, Holyrood is better behaved than WM. She reminds me of a cross between the teachers I had at school and Mrs Mack from that old soap (Take the High Road).

    80. Brian McHugh says:

      Agreed Kenny. Marwick has been an excellent speaker.

    81. ahundredthidiot says:

      I see the idiot is back to work after his Christmas leave

      Waste of tax payers money

    82. jdman says:

      The craven comments by Chic Brodie on STV news shows Scotland’s principles are to be bought for £70 million of Donald Trumps money.

    83. Dorothy Devine says:

      My goodness, STV, having a plethora of tales to tell choose the twitterings of Trump.

      Shite and spite reporting again!

      I have given up on both BBBC and Sky ,seems STV will join them.

      Cherry , I will take care and bravo!

    84. galamcennalath says:

      Going totally OT!

      There are 14 British overseas territories.

      Upon independence, Scotland should be entitled to one. But which one? Personally, I think we should settle for Bermuda.

    85. mike cassidy says:

      For those who like the road less travelled, a journey to the centre of Dugdaleania.

    86. Bob Mack says:


      I was watching one of my all time favourite actors,James Cagney today in a film called 13 Rue Madelaine. He played thd part of a senior trainer in an espionage unit during the second world war.

      The unit he trained was called( Wait for it) 0-77.
      Wonder if that’s where the name for the modern equivelant,who no doubt frequent these pages, comes from?

    87. galamcennalath says:

      Why did Labour lose the GE? Well this might be why it lost in England …

      … I wouldn’t like to say. However, nothing here explains why they got a gubbing in Scotland.

      And that, is yet another indication that Scotland and England are now on totally different paths.

    88. DerekM says:

      lol gala why settle for Bermuda we should at least get a quarter of them,then we should do what any descent civilized nation should and give them their independence 🙂

    89. yesindyref2 says:

      “In September 2014 the Security Assistance Group was formed and assumed command of the Military Stabilisation and Support Group, the Media Operations Group, 15 Physiological Operations Group and the Security Capacity Building team.

      In July 2015, the 4 individual units above were reshaped and formed the new 5 Columns of 77th Brigade:

      No.1 Column – Planning support focusing on the behavioural analysis of actors, audiences and adversaries
      No.2 Column – Provides the detail synchronisation and delivery of effect
      No.3 Column – Provides highly deployable specialists to other parts of the Armed Forces and other Government organisations
      No.4 Column – Provides professional specialists in Security Capacity Building in Defence
      No.5 Column – Media Operations and Civil Affairs

      Ah! 5th column activities 🙂 Say no more, nudge nudge, wink wink.

    90. Clapper57 says:

      Donald Trump’s rant against Salmond included slating Wind Turbines or as he says “bird-killing industrial windmills”.

      So nice of Donald to speak up for the birdies but he’s not so good at speaking up for the animals killed or should I say murdered by his hunting loving sons.

      If you do a search on google on Donald Trump’s sons hunting and look at images you will see that animals, and probably birdies, have a lot more to fear from Trumps sons than what he laughingly calls ‘industrial windmills’.

      What a massive F**kwit that man is .

    91. Clootie says:

      …just watched FMQs. Kezia is really going for gutter politics now. I have seldom seen a politician use the misery of another human with such enthusiasm.
      Illness, death, unemployment, industries failing are a joy for this disgusting cretin. I really don’t know how she sleeps at night with her approach to politics.

      How could anyone supports or vote for an individual who uses the misfortune of others to push her poison.

      Never to advance a solution, always first to direct blame.

      A young mind so willing to take up the well developed Labour tactic of smear instead of working to build Scotland is truly sickening.

    92. yesindyref2 says:

      I’d maybe go for the British Antarctic Territory which I daresay we’d rename. In time it could be worth a lot of money, and we do have a prior claim in the Antarctic, in fact I think the 1998 Scotland Act assigned it to us by mistake.

    93. call me dave says:

      Love this bit in the Herald article: FMQs extract.
      Ms Sturgeon sank her teeth into an unwisely gung-ho Ken McIntosh, who wanted more affordable housing.

      She snarled thanks for his “back of a fag packet” idea, and looked forward to hearing how he’d pay for it, especially given Labour’s “shining record” of six council houses when last in power.

      Mr McIntosh detumesced back into his seat. Ms Sturgeon swept out, unstoppable.
      —————————————————————–… 🙁 … 🙂

      Marwick is worth her weight in gold as far as I’m concerned.

      I worked in the Fife SNP squad for a longish period until I became ill, good times and bad and she does a nice BBQ too.

      SNP x 2

    94. ailsa craig says:

      Conan the Librarian. Is this what you want? Have copy of afternoon page but presume it will archive in up to date version. Not sure how to send archived Firefox web pages.

      peter kelly 5:34pm Thu 14 Jan 16

      Post accepted, but not shown

      The self loathing, self pitying, xenophobic, narrow minded neo- nats are out in force on this one.

      The nodding donkeys of the SNP, with their herd mentality, are all huddled together, the cancerous cult of Nationalism is in control of their every thought.

      The SNP mantra is never far away,

      “It’s ‘them’, it’s always ‘them’, it will always be ‘them’ ” they bleat incessantly.

      If you don’t believe me, just try reading some of their unmitigated claptrap on this thread.

      These are, at present, undefined proposals, the self loathing and self pitying will go viral on ‘Definition Day’.
      Score: 3
      Shaun Gisby Replying peter kelly 5:41pm Thu 14 Jan 16

      Hi Peter.

      Cheerio Pathetic Peter.
      Score: 1
      peter kelly Replying Shaun Gisby 5:55pm Thu 14 Jan 16

      ” Hi Peter.
      Cheerio Pathetic Peter ”

      More confirmation of your profile.
      Score: 1
      Shaun Gisby Replying peter kelly 6:32pm Thu 14 Jan 16

      Someone who can get the Herald to delete a swathe of comments says that?

      Will this one disappear?
      Score: 0
      Shaun Gisby 5:39pm Thu 14 Jan 16

      Amazing swathes of comments disappearing. Must be mice.
      Score: 1
      peter kelly Replying Shaun Gisby 5:56pm Thu 14 Jan 16

      ” Amazing swathes of comments disappearing. Must be mice.”

      Says the anonymous troll.
      Score: 0
      Shaun Gisby Replying peter kelly 6:33pm Thu 14 Jan 16

      Anonymous? You ken lots of Shaun Gisbys?
      Score: 0
      peter kelly Replying Shaun Gisby 6:40pm Thu 14 Jan 16

      ” Anonymous? You ken lots of Shaun Gisbys? ”

      The coward hiding behind this one, is just that, a coward.
      Score: 0
      Shaun Gisby Replying peter kelly 6:53pm Thu 14 Jan 16

      Ah, trying to provoke a ‘vile cybernat’ answer? Are you a some sort of ‘bot?

      Or, indeed a Labour politician?
      Score: 0
      peter kelly Replying Shaun Gisby 7:05pm Thu 14 Jan 16

      ” Ah, trying to provoke a ‘vile cybernat’ answer? Are you a some sort of ‘bot?”

      You’re just an anonymous ‘vile cybernat’, as you put it, your persona is showing up all over the thread.

      I’ve got you bang to rights, no doubt about that.

    95. Grouse Beater says:

      Ailsa Craig: “The nodding donkeys of the SNP with their herd mentality, are huddled together, the cancerous cult of Nationalism is in control of their every thought. The SNP mantra is never far away. “It’s ‘them’, always ‘them’, it will always be ‘them’ ” they bleat incessantly.”

      Who wrote that paragraph?

    96. bookie from hell says:

      When Alistair Darling called Panama a banana republic referendum

      Royal & Ancient golf club St. Andrews announce new tournament

    97. Dr Jim says:

      What kind of sneaky sniveling underhand writings are going on over at Bella Caledonia these days they’ve turned into some kind of extreme left Guardian Trixpaper

      I thought we trying to do honesty stuff now, if they support something there’s nothing wrong in saying so but some of what they’re producing is attempting to masquerade as something else and some of it’s just nonsense

      It’s a shame, used to enjoy reading that
      Is it just me?

    98. Conan the Librarian™ says:

      @ ailsa craig

      Sorry, no. There was a very long and detailed exchange between shaun and ‘peter’ which provoked the ‘Cheerio pathetic Peter comment, that was deleted totally.

      Herald moderators win again.

    99. Robert Peffers says:

      @sensibledave says: 14 January, 2016 at 3:19 pm:

      ” … The subject matter is how most of the polls from the last GE got it wrong. In summary, and logically, it argues that the pollsters asked the wrong people and therefore got a skewed result.”

      Both Prof Curtice and yourself are rather late with this claptrap. The truth about the poll’s failures have been commented upon long ago. Unlike Curtice these comments hit the nail on the head.

      It doesn’t take a genius to work out why. There are several ways to run a poll but they all should be totally random if they are to be believed.

      Fact is none of them are properly random. First of all there are the type that maintain a list of pollsters and they thus know how the pollsters are biased and some of this type even pay the pollsters for taking part.

      Then we have the so called random phone polls. Thing is that these days the poorest in the UK do not have installed phone lines and rely on pay-as-you-go mobiles which are not polled. Thus obviously biased polls.

      Then we have on-line volunteer polls in which only those interested take part. Even face-to-face in the street polls are not random. I’ve taken part in such polls as an interviewer and was instructed by those running the poll where to stand and how to select people most likely to hold the required view the company wanted.

      There just isn’t a way to honestly conduct a really random poll.

    100. Grouse Beater says:

      Bookie:”When Alistair Darling called Panama a banana republic referendum”

      That banana republic called Panama:

    101. Petra says:

      @ galamcennalath says at 6:22 pm ”There are 14 British overseas territories. Upon independence, Scotland should be entitled to one. But which one? Personally, I think we should settle for Bermuda.”

      Agreed galamcennalath we’ll have beautiful Bermuda. And taking into account that we make up one tenth of the UK by population or one third by landmass we would be entitled to have part share of another territory.

      I think we should consider part share of the Cayman Islands (Grand Cayman, Cayman Brac and Little Cayman). We’ll opt for Grand Cayman tax haven, adopt the Cayman Island dollar pegged to the US dollar and ‘out’ the tax evaders whilst we all swan around seven mile beach. Deal Westminster?

      Thanks Robert (and others) for posting the Parliamentary link.

      I see another Winger has had their comments published in The National (big bold heading again!). WELL DONE Dave (McEwan Hill). Great piece on the oil situation ‘We’re being had over a barrel when it comes to Oil’. Education, education, education ….. the name of the game.

    102. Ref Bella

      I think a lot of Bella staff and contributors were `Yes` during Indy Ref but they were never fans of the Alex, Nicola and the SNP,

      they were probably Bright Young Things at Uni,very articulate from reading and studying politics but lack worldly experience,were easily led by the promises of Tony Blair New Labour,and now grasping at Corbynism,

      posts are all(look at me) ego driven opinion pieces,very much like the miserable yoon hacks that infest MSM,

      they talk the talk but do not walk the walk.

    103. ArtyHetty says:


      Ah haven’t had time to read the National today, but did see they were all well folded, facing away and totally hidden behind some tory rag today in my local shops. Now I know why.

      Regards Kezia, what an embarrassment. If she is she there to attempt to make a mockery of the Scottish parliament, but mostly her party, she is doing a good job of it. The wording, the facial expressions, and most of all the deliberate pauses just make her look like a cartoon character.
      The total lack of sincerity is just painful to watch.

      No it’s not just you, ditched bella some time ago. Have had to block them on facebook due to lots of rubbish as well. Shame, as you say, they once seemed to have some integrity, maybe we were all fooled. :-((

    104. Tam Jardine says:


      Seconded- Dave writes well and often. Guid to see him getting top billing.

      Re the territories- I am unclear what the British Overseas Territories actually means in monetary terms. It is hard to imagine the UK exchequer isn’t seeing some action (outside of the obvious tax haven for the rich game). How independent are they? Or is it purely titular. Excuse my ignorance.

    105. Lesley-Anne says:

      yesindyref2 says:
      14 January, 2016 at 7:14 pm

      I’d maybe go for the British Antarctic Territory which I daresay we’d rename. In time it could be worth a lot of money, and we do have a prior claim in the Antarctic, in fact I think the 1998 Scotland Act assigned it to us by mistake.

      I may be wrong yesindyref2 but somewhere in the pitch black recesses of my solitary brain cell there is a crumb rumbling around. This particular crumb suggests that Antartica actually already belongs to Scotland … thanks to a wee *ahem* oversight by a certain Mr. blair at the time of reopening of the Scottish government in Edinburgh.

      Just wish I could remember where I read this. 🙁

    106. bookie from hell says:

      thx grouse beater

      I feel like moving to Panama

    107. Gary45% says:

      The reason Dipity can’t get her head round APD, is their is no proviso for PFI getting any benefit.

      I have heard the arguments regarding the carbon foot print with more flights coming into Scotland.
      Basically if this brings in more commerce (something totally alien to Slab)then bring it on.
      As said many times on previous posts, if Slab get into power again they will bankrupt the country to feed the pockets of their associates.
      Darling, Brown, Bliar, Wilson and the rest of the parasites are desperate to get their hands on public money.(prove me wrong).I would include FUD but he is far too thick.
      They will have family members lining up to jump into PFI contracts. “Thieving Bastards”

    108. Lenny hartley says:

      Petra, we have a 50% stake in UK so we should get half of the overseas territories , Isle of Man would be good then we could have a Scottish TT

    109. mike cassidy says:

      re my 6.28

      here’s a link to the programme with the Kezia Dugdale interview coming first.

      Don’t hold your breath waiting for her to talk rather than spout!

    110. Lenny Hartley says:

      Lesley Anne They fixed the Antartic “problem” a couple of years ago think it was before the referendum, might even have been in the Edinburgh Agreement

    111. Legerwood says:

      Lesley Anne @ 7.14

      Re Antarctica

      Did they not remove it from Scotland’s portfolio in the Scotland Act 2012?

      I seem to remember some discussion about it when the Scotland Bill was going through Parliament at that time. Mainly the comment centred on the fact that we did not even know we had it to lose in the first place.

    112. Grouse Beater says:

      England created the Scottish National Party, not that it wanted to, but in the sense it denied and still denies full democracy for Scotland.

    113. ailsa craig says:

      GrouseBeater: it was a Peter Kelly in the Herald today in argument with another poster.

      Conan the Librarian.

      Sorry. I saw that remark within the conversation but it must have been just what got through the Gauleiters at the Herald. I have not got a time in the Firefox history but it would have been around 11.00am. This extract was just after 5.30pm. Presumably the deleted conversation you are looking for was sometime early in the afternoon.

    114. call me dave says:

      @Lesley Anne

      It was all a mistake, put right in 2012. 🙂

      I too thought Scotland was responsible for it’s administration but I was telt! Can’t remember who back in 2013 I think… 🙁

    115. call me dave says:

      @mike cassidy

      We cross posted. Never saw this information before, thanks.

    116. Lesley-Anne says:

      re Antartica … thanks guys I wasn’t sure but now you have put me right.

      Gary45% says:
      14 January, 2016 at 8:31 pm

      The reason Dipity can’t get her head round APD, is their is no proviso for PFI getting any benefit.

      I have heard the arguments regarding the carbon foot print with more flights coming into Scotland.
      Basically if this brings in more commerce (something totally alien to Slab)then bring it on.

      In my view Gary there is an interesting little misnomer when it comes to flight to America/Canada etc.

      Let me deal with the U.S./Canada first.

      Anyone who wants to fly to North America must initially fly to London/Paris/Frankfurt/Amsterdam before flying BACK the way they have just travelled to continue on to North America. There is one exception to this and that is the Continental Airways flights that leave Glasgow and Edinburgh for Newark every day. Other than that it is as I have already stated. For meit is utter madness to fly to London etc just to fly BACK again over Scotland to get to U.S./Canada.

      There is one other alternative and that is the Iclandair flight from Glasgow to Reykavik to catch a connection on to Candada/U.S.

      What I’m trying to get at here Gary is that by flying to London etc before flying BACK over Scotland must surely ADD to the carbon footprint of anyone’s travel to the U.S. etc. It surely makes MORE Carbon footprint sense to have flights from Edinburgh/Glasgow.

      I would suggest that anyone flying East to Asia or Australasia could avoid London all together by flying to Abu Dhabi, Doha or Dubai with Ethiad and Qatar out of Edinburgh and Emirates (Two daily flights) out of Glasgow and catching connecting flights in the Middle East. I think by flying to Abu Dhabi,Doha and Dubai is also a more direct route to the Far East and Australasia than flying the “wrong way” to London first.

      Hey ho that’s my tuppence halfpenny worth on Carbon footprint and aviation. I will now sit back and get shot down in flames. 😀

    117. Kenny says:

      Interesting about Antarctic. If there are 14 overseas territories, Scotland is definitely entitled to one in terms of population — at the very least.*

      Might be also interesting to go through the original historical documents regarding the Treaty of Union negotiations — was Scotland received on unequal terms from the start, for which she ought to be entitled to compensation + 300 years’ of interest?!?

      Having said that, I still think the biggest bonus of indy will be Mone, Darling, wee Danny Alexander and all those other nonentities kicked out of the House of Lords and losing their £300 dinner money! It wid be enough tae make a gib laugh! Is that why they are so eager to set up a “senate” to “oversea” the SNPbad-one-party state ruled by Evil Dictator “Wee Nicola”?

      [* I would suspect that when indy does come around, so much of North England will be so scunnered with WM that it might be a moot point who is the successor to the UK — UKOK Toryland or Scotland + Wales + North England + Cornwall…?]

    118. yesindyref2 says:

      @mike cassidy
      Interesting article, and sounds right to me as well. The continuing interest was/is a basis of a claim, and Scotland had had whalers there in the 1890s. One of the reasons apparently the UK retook the Falklands was to service South Georgia, and hence to service for want of a better word, the Antarctic. Scotland would be disadvantaged in that respect as presumably the rUK would keep both, in fact politically with respect to Argentina, I doubt Scotland would want to stake any claim to the Falklands at all.

      Ironically Coats Land was discovered by the Bruce expedition, with help and finance and provisioning by Argentina as surprisingly not, the UK Government took no interest in the Scottish expedition as it had its own approved expedition. Which means Argentina might have a partial claim, but one which would depend on Scotland’s success in making any claim.

      Which all makes it all – very interesting!

    119. Tam Jardine says:


      You make a very good point. I have always thought that lowering APD would, by in large and with some exceptions, result in flights changing rather than additional numbers of flights.

      For example, a big factor in where to choose for a holiday is the cost of flights so for anyone looking at a holiday abroad the cost of flights is often a major factor.

      If holidays to Scotland are cheaper then it does not necessarily signal the actual numbers of flights will increase.

      Labour’s position is funny. They haven’t exactly applied any intellectual rigour to the tax and its reduction or retention. I have yet to hear anyone ask Kezia how much APD is? For flights under 2000 miles? Or over 2000 miles?

      Is it charged for trips to UK airports or from? What happens when it is a flight from a UK airport TO a UK airport?

      What will be the effect on the “Scottish economy” of reducing APD? I have yet to hear a single slab MSP concede there are any benefits to be had from reducing the rate to 50% or indeed, abolishing it. And if they believe there is no benefit, why not increase it?

      Do they agree with the number of bands of APD being reduced to 2 or is there some better way of grading flights to try and improve the economic value of increasing numbers of flights to Scotland whilst avoiding increasing CO2 emissions?

      Is there a way of improving the European flight model away from the ‘hub’ model in order to increase the number of direct flights and decrease the number of connecting flights.

      Where are they on this? Instead of actually making a case we get this amateur pish. It goes without saying the journalists are failing in their duty by not examining the argument with any rigour.

      Can you imagine if slab got there first and proposed a reduction to APD- it would be getting bigged up as the greatest thing since sliced bread and the SNP would be destroying growth and would be castigated for not using the powers they had been banging on about.

      Actually- I have changed my position- we are never going to have a grown up debate in Scotland until the scottish labour party are destroyed, the BBC destroyed and Scotland becomes independent. I would go for UDI tomorrow. We’re going to end up in this absurd quagmire caused by the media forever at this rate, and I want us to get on with making the country better.

      How many all right wing QT’s have we got to endure before Indy? 100? 200? 1000 maybe? Fuck that.

    120. call me dave says:

      Keeking at the Hootsman and found that anthem thing again!

      Joyce McMillan: English anthem has implications for Union

      Maybe they might choose this and really go for it.

      ‘See the conquering hero comes’!

      Well we have ‘Flower of Scotland’ 🙂

    121. yesindyref2 says:

      The US flight path follows the Great Circle and many fly over Prestwick which is one of the 2 I think, UK air traffic control centres for the Atlantic. Hence it’s name I guess, Atlantic House (quick google to make sure I’ve remembered right – yes). I had a tour round there many years ago when I was learning to fly there.

      Shannon Airport in Ireland got a lot of transatlantic flights and used to be (no idea if it is now) popular for people even from the UK to fly to the US.

      If Scotland had been independent say back in the 80s, there’s little doubt Prestwick would be a major hub for US flights with its mist-free and long long runway. But who knows, with the spaceport initiative, it could still be in time, even if not an iScotland. Some Scottish MPs who cared about Scotland like the SNP as opposed to Labour might help to do the job.

      It’s ironic to me that the MPs most interested and in the best position to do something FOR Scotland in the Union, are the very ones who want to leave the Union. Labour MPs really have done a shabby pathetic job for Scotland over the years.

    122. Jimbo says:

      Labour in Scotland are the Humpty Dumpty Party of politics – So badly broken they’re beyond repair.

    123. call me dave says:

      Curl up to this. Some Scottish interest on now. Ad blocker?

    124. Grouse Beater says:

      Has the SNP ever invited Varoufakis to speak at a venue in Scotland? If so, I missed that, to my shame.

      But my point is, why struggle to spell out Scotland’s wealth and how we can weather storms, when there’s fine economist to prove it, happy to give a talk on the subject.

    125. Lesley-Anne says:

      Just as a wee aside Tam.

      A number of years ago, I think it was about the same time as the U.K. introduced A.P.D., the Netherlands also introduced A.P.D. What the Dutch government found, to the expense of Schipol airport, was that a significant number of Dutch air travellers opted to NOT use Schipol but chose instead to travel to Frankfurt and fly from there.

      The problem for the Dutch was that THEY introduced A.P.D. and the Germans did NOT.

      I know that you can probably travel from Amsterdam to Frankfurt by train but I suspect a great many Dutch may have actually chosen to drive and leave their cars at the local long term car park. This is not what I would call very carbon footprint friendly. 🙂

      Needless to say the A.P.D. charges from Schipol, and other Dutch airports only lasted 12 months after which the Dutch government withdrew A.P.D. and Schipol etc saw a return to pre – A.P.D. passenger footfall numbers.

    126. North Chiel says:

      What about our “pro rata share ” of the Falklands oil ?
      or on our ” Independence Day” can we be generous and “assign our share” to the Islanders ?
      Ps Would our share be (a) 50/50 as the union was between TWO kingdoms
      or (b) on a population ratio basis when the union agreement was signed in 1707 ( circa 4:1 ?)
      or (c) on a population ratio basis upon independence (circa 11:1)
      Would this apply to all “British” overseas territories ?

    127. Lesley-Anne says:

      yesindyref2 says:
      14 January, 2016 at 9:52 pm

      Shannon Airport in Ireland got a lot of transatlantic flights and used to be (no idea if it is now) popular for people even from the UK to fly to the US.

      Shannon is a lot quieter these days yesforindyref2.

      I’ve just checked their departures and there are only five flights from Shannon tothe U.S.

      a) United 757 to Newark

      b) Turkish 330 to Chicago

      c) Aer Lingus 757 to Boston

      d) British Airways 318 to JFK (2 flights)

      Just for interest the B.A. 318 flights originate at London city airport not Heathrow or Gatwick. 😉

    128. Albaman says:

      Robert Peffers,
      This is right up your Kelty street!, have you seen the report in the Glasgow Herald regarding the Westminster’s latest plan of attack on Scotland, and that is to rewrite the “Act of Union” , and submit it to the four political bodies of this present Union, for their approval.
      Now Peter try to keep calm as you reply to this threat.

    129. Grouse Beater says:

      Neo-liberal doctrine:

      When it comes to banksters bonuses we’re asked to respect the sanctity of contracts … but NOT for junior doctors!

    130. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Dr Jim at 7.40

      No. It’s not just you. I abandoned Bella Caledonia some time ago. I am awfully glad I belong to the SNP. I do not and never have agreed with all its positions (except of course an absolute determination to gain independence for Scotland) but I do appreciate its other important determination which is never to muck rake and indulge in nasty personal attacks on political opponents.

    131. Les Wilson says:

      Albaman says

      If that is true, then we are out!

    132. Dougie McCall says:

      Stop mocking the afflicted ;0)

    133. gordoz says:

      O/T Re Bella C :

      Strikes me that its more than odd – starting to stink of ‘acceptance’ even promotion of this as the only credible voice, by the Establishment / anti scots media – is now being touted by yoons & wavering federalist PC Yessers as the real acceptable face of online media for Scotland. Please No.

      Very dodgy to get the backing of BBC & press journos etc at same time as targeting SNP Government for criticism over Tory dogma.

      Oh look! Loki on BBC now as invited expert – who’d a thunk it a year ago. Time to switch off then.

      Very, very dodgy – stick to WoS for straight talking folks.

    134. Les Wilson says:

      Here is the link for them changing the act of union, proposed by a Tory lord, of course.

    135. heedtracker says:

      BBC Question Time tonight making a great show of what this farce UKOK union actually is in the real world. Loads of English people debating the future of my country, for me. Not a Scots voice to be heard, passionate though our neighbours do debate, on our fcuking behalf.

      Thanks again, proud Scot buts.

    136. gordoz says:

      Watching QT for 20 seconds only … Just wonder if anybody has a counter position to this

      Kelvin Mckenzie is a completely odius prick !

    137. gordoz says:


      Very well put.

      Remember that panel is a representation of much of England – sadly 🙁

      Kelvin feckin’ McKenzie ? Dearie Me ?

    138. Edward says:


      I have been watching most of QT
      Kelvin Mackenzie really is off his right wing trolly

      The UKIP guy is also a basket case, tried to make out that Britain is better out of the EU and that the pound is far stronger than the euro. Let you into a little secret, well its not a secret, except the media are keeping quiet about it.

      The pound has been in freefall against all currency’s since before Christmas! Including the euro. The euro is stronger compared with the pound.

      I’m not sure why the right wing have their head stuck up their own arses or the media not mentioning much about the pound falling in value

    139. Lenny Hartley says:

      Re Shannon it was a major hub as the Irish had rules that all flights to the U.S. had to either stop their or begin there. So a flight from Dublin to ?New York would have to stop at Shannon and maybe pick up a handful of passengers.

      What Ireland has and no other country in Europe has is the ability to go through US immigration at Dublin Airport saving potentially hours in a queue at the U.S. end.

    140. Joemcg says:

      Noticed the wee protest outside the Tunnocks factory on the MSM . The guys were handing out Lees products.A Google search reveals they were against independence as well! Oh dear.

    141. Legerwood says:

      Lesley-Anne @ 10.15

      Re: Shannon

      The first time I flew to the US the plane had propellers. We flew from Prestwick to Iceland where we got off the plane to have lunch. We then flew from Iceland to Gander where we had tea then down the east coast of the US to New York.

      Flying back we made it in one go because we had the wind behind us but I was told that if the wind (jet stream) had not obliged then Plan B was to land at Shannon and that was one of the reasons Shannon was built where it was – a failsafe for aircraft that could not make it back across the Atlantic in one go! Very reassuring if you are in the type of plane that needed the wind behind it as I was on that occasion.

      Once planes could routinely make it across in one go with or without the wind the rationale for Shannon became somewhat redundant.

      Whether there is truth in the story I can’t say but I was prepared to believe it that day.

    142. Tam Jardine says:


      Well, we have Kelvin on the panel…

      By the way- has his accent changed hugely over the years? I remember him being much more cockney than he is now?

      Camilla Long didn’t waste any time before revealing she kent fuck all during the junior doctor discussion. Kelvin hates everyone, especially everyone who is struggling. The UKIP guy actually appears to be somewhere on the centre ground on this panel. The tory guy is waiting for Cameron to make his mind up for him on Europe…

      I wonder if my workmates would be better on telly discussing these issues.

      Cat Smith, the labour MP seems like she has her head screwed on. She would be SNP if she had had been fortunate enough to be born up here. She is head and shoulders above everyone else on the panel.

    143. Lesley-Anne says:

      I have to say Ledger that what you say about Shannon is true.

      Back in the day 😉 propeller driven aircraft were not only having to fight the jetstream heading West but they were quite often approaching the limits of their range (plus resrves).

      As we entered the jet age then as a consequence of better engines etc the flights could quite comfortably cross “the pond” both ways thereby negating the need to stop off at Shannon for a “wee top up” before continuing to the U.S.A.

      Funnily enough British Airways seem to have returned (almost) to the old “top up at Shannon before crossing the pond” with their BA1 and BA3 flights from London City using the Airbus 318 aircraft.

    144. Tam Jardine says:


      I strongly doubt Lees’ products have an opinion on Scottish Independence one way or another. Do you have any evidence to the contrary?

    145. James Barr Gardner says:

      Just watched David Dumbleby on Question Time and he used the phrase “that’s the way we do it”!

      Aye David, your’re right, your programme is a “Punch And Judy Show”!

      However, We wingers already know that!

    146. stephen says:

      That asswipe Kelvin McKenzie on QT “Any nation on earth is more than capable of creating their own wealth”ehhhh except Scotland of course.

    147. Famous15 says:


      Question Time winds up with the question on a national anthem for Engerlund.

      In the 1950s in a State Senior Secondary School in Oban Drive,Glasgow we were forced to sing at assembly that famous nationalistic English anthem “Jerusalem” .

      We naughtily, substituted “in England’s green and fetid land”

      Many years later chatting to a teacher he admitted that in WW2 Scottish soldiers and airmen had to succumb to cultural imperialism or be sidelined for promotion.

      In my career to “get on” you never asserted Scottish nationhood or you suffered.

      Now that I am retired I want payback. I am Scottish and am quietly proud of my native land. I do not want to rule the world I just to feel relaxed feeling Scottish. OK!

    148. Almannysbunnet says:

      Started to watch question time but if I continued I’d have ruined a perfectly good TV. A clearly passionate junior doctor, on the point of tears, was trying to correct some of the lies and misinformation being portrayed by the panel (Camilla Long) and government figures and Dimbelby’s response, “don’t wave your finger at me”. What a smirky, supercilious moron he is!
      Given the low esteem that journalists currently hold in our society why oh why do we have the likes of Camilla Long and Kelvin McKenzie on the panel? Seriously what nuggets of wisdom do they have that we must hear? They bring absolutely nothing to the table. Why not just have someone from another trade, a plumber and mechanic maybe. At least you might get somebody connected to real life. Basically, apart from propaganda, what is the point of QT.

    149. heedtracker says:

      Now that I am retired I want payback. I am Scottish and am quietly proud of my native land. I do not want to rule the world I just to feel relaxed feeling Scottish. OK!

      Relaxed feeling Scottish right now, means sitting back and letting England make the decisions for Scots. If that’s relaxing, with all due respect, it’s UKOK meaningless and probably why we lost the referendum, fundimundilly…

    150. Ronnie says:

      @ Tam Jardine 9.49

      Actually- I have changed my position- we are never going to have a grown up debate in Scotland until the scottish labour party are destroyed, the BBC destroyed and Scotland becomes independent. I would go for UDI tomorrow. We’re going to end up in this absurd quagmire caused by the media forever at this rate, and I want us to get on with making the country better.

      How many all right wing QT’s have we got to endure before Indy? 100? 200? 1000 maybe? Fuck that.

      That’s m’boy, you write my language!

      Any chance at all that you can make it to Wings over Aberdeen on January 30?

      Anyone else who would like to join fellow Wingers for a meet-up, please check out Off -Topic (link under Zany Comedy Relief above).

    151. Tam Jardine says:


      Strangely it was probably a very good episode of QT for labour. Contrast the audience response to the sharp and intelligent labour mp from that of all the other right wingers on the panel.

      I agree it is pointless though- pure propaganda. I also agree the doctor who was addressing the people at home (and doctors in the audience in general) were treated with pure disdain. Perhaps the right wing preponderance in the panel was specifically called in, like an airstrike, by the UK government to combat the strike.

    152. Tam Jardine says:


      Sadly Ronnie I am working on the 30th so will not make it up the road. I would urge anyone reading who can make it to head along. Wings is vanguard of the national movement and it is imperative that we meet when we can to push this forward.

    153. Joemcg says:

      Tam Jardine-I’m nae good at copy and pasting but if you google it an article dated 2nd September 2014 in the daily record has a quote from a high heid yin at Lees stating they were against a yes vote.

    154. Still Positive. says:

      All of you who mentioned the English national anthem ‘Jerusalem’I remember singing this every week in a secondary school in East Kilbride in 65/66 in music and we sang it at assembly which is why I know all the words.

      It didn’t stop me being SNP from 1967 when Winnie Ewing won Hamilton and I discovered what the SNP stood for.

      I have a beloved English daughter-in-law and I have told her that I envy some of their tunes/songs although I don’t agree with the sentiments.

    155. Ian Brotherhood says:

      The point of Question Time is (and always has been) to allow Dimbleby a safe space in which to meet ‘real’ people, thereby lending him the illusion that he actually exists on this plane.

      (Unfortunately, ‘finger-wagging’ breaks the spell – he contests such actions swiftly and forcefully, deploying all the powers given to him by Auntie Beeb…)

    156. Thepnr says:

      Never saw QT as it’s rae now that I even have the telly on. Might catch up tomorrow if I can be arsed.der

      The point is I used to love these programs, yeah they might get me a bit madder when a halfwit is giving an answer. The really interesting thing though is that I no longer care what these gobshites are saying.

      True! Thay point of view means zero to me.

      The interesting part is that for sure “our”, the Yes supporters intransigence is having an effect down South, their eyes to are being opened. Labour supporters that is, Tories have always been blind other than what’s in their wallet or purse.

      Our job and I’m serious because there are now a fair number of us is to grab one person, a non voter, a labour voter or a soft No and persuade them to vote SNP in May.

      Just the one, it’ll be more than enough. Let’s make a point though.

    157. schrodingers cat says:

      Tam Jardine

      I strongly doubt Lees’ products have an opinion on Scottish Independence one way or another. Do you have any evidence to the contrary?

      I hope they don’t have a view, a trade mark doesn’t get a vote, nor should it speak for those who work for it, bad marketing, whether the people who work for lees support indy or not, they have a right not to be miss represented buy the management, including the ceo, especially, especially if it damages business. I worked for shell until xmas and was devastated when the ceo of shell hosted Cameron in the phase 5 of shell tullos offices in Aberdeen and from behind the plate glass announced he was not in favour of indy, when at the same time alex salmonds sg was meeting the people in a church hall down in laurenceskirk
      a few miles down the road
      There were complaints, the ceo of any company has responsibilities and also a job description, same as all employees, eg, shell, and indeed all major companies have online courses wrt business ethics. they are obligatory for all employees, including the ceo, the shell one states quite clearly, ” no shell employee should involve themselves in local politics” you have to agree to this, on pain of dismissal. seems very obvious for a company involved in interational trade… but it is proposed that the ceo of shell, broke the rules, as outlined in shells own literature, which he also signed.? tunnocks is still a family owned business, but mr tunnock still has a responsibility to its employees?

      until tunnocks stop playing Russian roulette with the livelihood of their employees, I will buy lees. I also have a choice, I also choose not to use shell fuel stations. if you remember, that is what stopped dumping the brent spar?

    158. Thepnr says:

      jeez, bedtime. Goodnight lol.

    159. Joemcg says:

      Cat-it was actually a nawbag that alerted me to Lees. I also thought they kept silent on the issue but no unfortunately.

    160. Tam Jardine says:


      Ah- you mean Lees of Scotland Ltd- I thought you said Lees products.

      fair enough. Aye- they voted wrang an aw. I will not hear a word said against the products. They are innocent

    161. Cherry says:


      Think I read somewhere that not only has the Falklands got oil, they also have high grade uranium…was that the reason to go to war with Argentina…I had never heard of those islands until we were sending troops on ships to Ascension island…My ex was on the Canberra which carried 4000 men/women to Ascension before continuing on to Falklands as a hospital.

    162. Joemcg says:

      So you still scoffing Tunnocks products Tam because it was Boyd Tunnock that opened his mooth? 🙂

    163. Famous15 says:


      I am old not stupid.

      Are you a troll or just an arse.

      Read what I said again and Oh just GTF.

      Scotland has its fair share of stupidies.

      SNP x2

    164. Thepnr says:

      Nobody would ever eat an innocent product with malice.

      They are innocent FFS, best chew on the guilty. I’d have Ian Duncan Smith on a spit rotating around and around if it was possible.

      I’d bet he tastes vile.

    165. yesindyref2 says:

      @Dave McEwan Hill
      Yes, it’s a strength of the SNP that it doesn’t descend to the level of personal attacks, unlike other parties.

      As a stray thought, having read articles in Herald and The National, the anti-SNP parties are just so rabidly mouth-frothingly anti-SNP, they miss genuine targets and complaints.

      But I’m not going into details for obvious reasons!

    166. Wuffing Dug says:

      Cherry @12.59am

      Just the same as fighting to hold on to N.I.

      Just the same as annexing Rockall so Ireland couldn’t claim it.

      The truth will out.

    167. Tam Jardine says:


      The Tunnocks teacakes, caramel wafers and snowballs are innocent too. I don’t eat them because of their master, Boyd Tunnock’s anti Scottish campaigning.

    168. jdman says:

      Anyone any idea what a cross between a Zebra and a Donkey would be called?
      yup you’ve guess it they’re Zonkeys
      AND I WANT ONE! 🙂

    169. Alan Mackintosh says:

      Jdman, if its a female, does it have to be called Debra?

    170. Al Dossary says:

      @Wuffing Dug, 7:12

      Interesting comparison with NI & Rockall. The very first offshore survival I did was at the old RGIT building on King St, Aberdeen (mid 1990’s). One of the guys there was from a “Survey Vessel” who had been surveying for hydrocarbons around the west coast of Ireland, and before that around Rockall !

      As much as he would say was that things had went extremely well and he could say no more than that. The West coast of Ireland is where Shell have just cracked open the Corrib field, which they are piping to shore via two 36″ gas pipelines. This is way more than is required for one field, and is IMHO the roots of the infrastructure off the West coast of Ireland.

      I think the Irish have some massive finds to come over the years, particularly to the South West of the country. If you look on google maps you can see a huge submerged “River Delta” larger than the Nile Delta (The Nile Delta is the center of Egypts offshore oil and gas).

    171. jdman says:

      “Noticed the wee protest outside the Tunnocks factory on the MSM . The guys were handing out Lees products.A Google search reveals they were against independence as well! Oh dear.”

      I think we need to accept that most companies have an existential paranoia about independence, we just need to ignore them and persuade their employees there’s a bigger picture here (not easy) and that their futures are secured in that an independent Scotland will attract inward investment and most likely produce better-paid jobs anyway,

      That’s always assuming that the no companies will WANT
      to move their production to areas of the UK which will cost them more anyway, I think they will have a sudden realisation of where their bread is buttered.

      I recall the (empty) threat by some banks who said they would move their headquarters to London should we vote yes
      my response to that was”well if you want to pay eye-watering sums for office space in London and increase you staff wage bill by a factor of 3, then knock yourself out” good luck explaining that petulance to your shareholders.

    172. jdman says:

      Alan Mackintosh
      “Jdman, if its a female, does it have to be called Debra?”


    173. jdman says:

      Al Dossary
      “The West coast of Ireland is where Shell have just cracked open the Corrib field, which they are piping to shore via two 36? gas pipelines. This is way more than is required for one field, and is IMHO the roots of the infrastructure off the West coast of Ireland.”

      I was led to understand that Ireland has sold ALL rights to the fields to Statoil.
      It would seem some people REALLY ARE too wee too poor and too stupid!

    174. Ken500 says:

      Somevteensgers missed out on a trip on Canberra when intent to War. If there is Oil in th Falklands they are taking years to discover it. A myth? Some (small) Oil Companies were encouraging the rumours to get (investor) money in and then fleecing them. Shares went up dramatically. Money used up and then they came down. The execs etc made a killing. ‘Buyer beward’. There is doubt if there is any marketable Oil. With the price fall absolutely worthless. It would be not worth the effort to extract it in the deep waters. It could not be produced, without the co-operation of the nearest land mass. Argentina? Logistics.

      There were 1,500 people on the Falklands when Thatcher went to ‘War’. She sent 28,000 troops against Argentina conscripts, young boys. People died. Over 500 people died or were maimed. A total over reaction. It got Thatcher’s waning government back into power. Some say that is why she did it. The jingoism was extraordinary. Like ‘Britain’ had ‘won’ another WW. Thatcher had a Civil war on her hands starving the miners in the UK. Evil woman.

      There could have been a diplomatic solution. Given the islanders £2Million each to migrate to Wales. More pleasant easier life with less strife. Some of come back to the UK to retire. They have family connections. Life on the island is almost impossible without massive financial/political/support. A forces base. Costs £Milliions to maintain. There are now 3,000 inhabitants there including Oil paraphernalia.

      The British claim to the Falklands is dubious. Argentina has an equal claim upheld by the UN. They have suggested negotiating. The US did not support Thatcher’s claim to the Falklands. Surprisingly considering their ‘close relations’, Regan did not support the British claim. He told Thatcher to ‘back off’.

      Looking back Regan was not such a warmonger, as they are now. Thatcher egged him on. Lectured Regan on the Russian, ‘menace’. Russia had saved the West, won the 11WW and defeated Hitler. 26Million died in Russia and the economy was devastated. All the evil liar could do was to attack Russia. Westminster’s secrecy and lies. Regan supported more (nuclear?) disarmourment,although he was betrayed as a ‘hawk’. There were great efforts to stop Germany (Japan) from rearming.

      Obama has negotiated nuclear for Iran. Spreading more weapons in the Middle East/world. Iran doesn’t need it. They have plenty oil and sun for energy. The US had it’s own problem with weapons. 26,000 Americans kill each other with guns every year. More than in any terrorists ‘attack’. Corporal punishment and a inhuman penal system. Police shoot innocent people in the back, including children, and get away with murder. It’s disgraceful.

      Why would anyone want an ‘overseas’ terroritory? When they want Independence.

      The (unelected) House of Lords can’t change the Act of Union, without negotiation and Scottish representative consent. To change it without ‘equal’ agreement is to null and void the Act. Under the terms of the Act of Union, it can only be changed with negotiation and ‘equal’ agreement from representative of both Parliament’s/Government’s. Westminster can’t impose a Settlement.

    175. Capella says:

      Decided to listen to RS news today. Mistake. It’s mainly about sport. Did you know that Alex Salmond is responsible for the sectarian problems in football? It was all fine until he intervened.

      Councils are starved of cash – by the SNP.

      Oh and also the roads are icy but not the fault of the SNP so far.

      Nothing else of any importance has been drawn to their attention.

    176. Robert Kerr says:

      Anent Shannon in the Irish Republic. The First non-stop transatlantic service from Europe to New York was made in 1942 from Foynes just down river from Shannon using flying boats. A Pan-Am employee invented Irish Coffee there for the delectation of the passengers pre-war.

      Visit the Flying Boat Museum there. I have twice.

      SNP SNP

    177. Ken500 says:

      How much did Ireland (Irish Republic or Ulster) get from selling all ‘rights’ to Statoil? A fix term or yearly contributions. Or Percentage on all remunerations. How can the ‘rights’ be calculated, without an assessment of production outcome or expectation. Can Ulster negotiate without Westminster’s interference? Secrecy and lies and the Offical Secret’s Act. Take Ulster’s Oil and lie about it. Does it really exist. Is it marketable?

      Will Ulster vote to reunite with IR. Will Oil expectations change that position or will there be negotiations to future Oil rights? Extracting Oil/Gas and Oil production in Irish waters could totally change the political, economic and social aspects in Ireland.

    178. Grouse Beater says:

      Wingers on here vociferously slanging Dimbleby’s Question Time –

      That’s exactly what the programme – show – is for, to provoke empty anger, indignation, and righteousness. No one invites the likes of McKenzie to the party unless they hope to provoke a fist fight. And he duly performs.

      It’s pretend democracy, nice, safe, contained, once a week release of steam on English-only issues and concerns. It has bugger all to do with the influential held to account.

      The people that matter, us, are selected few in number for ‘participation.’ We do not actually participate. A few – again selected – make a brief contribution. The chairman won’t allow us to exercise reasoned argument let alone a dispute with a panellist. We’re the onlookers because we have no power and are not celebrity.

      The show is a sham, a piece of cheap theatre, a subject for pub chat next day: “If that McKenzie came in this pub I’d say, Kelvin, who da ya fink ya is? Furk orft!!”

      Yeah, that real democracy at work if you think it is.

    179. Nana says:

      O/T links

      I thought Scots mps were banned from voting…–ZkebaiCN8he

      The Conservatives have blocked MPs from debating cuts that will end support for the poorest students

      Maximus Inc, which assesses disabled people’s fitness for work, is “a brutal, Wall Street corporation devoid of any humanity” says a former PR manager

    180. Ken500 says:

      iR has special ties with the US. Migration. There is an Irish caucus in Congress (representatives of Irish descent) to put trade deals etc IR way. Look after Irish interests in th USA. 10% of US voters are of Scottish descent. Diaspora. The Klu Kluk Klan’s flag was based on the Scottish flag. 1 in 6 Americans are of Jewish descent. Migration. Some of them migrate to Israel from the West.

      US influence to protect Jewish interests and property rights. Illegal Housing settlements build on Palestinian land with US capital investment. Palestinians denied equal rights on their own lands, or a separate State. US supporting apartheid, despot states in the Middle East for political and financial gain. Selling (nuclear) weapons etc. States ideals which would not be tolerated in the US,

    181. Almannysbunnet says:

      @ Ken500 says:
      “Under the terms of the Act of Union, it can only be changed with negotiation and ‘equal’ agreement from representative of both Parliament’s/Government’s. Westminster can’t impose a Settlement.”
      For that reason if no other we must never have a unionist party in power at Hollyrood. They would handcuff Scotland to England and gleefully throw away the key.

    182. Ken500 says:

      Stop watching the BBC or any other programme which give offence. It gives them oxygen and puts up blood pressures. Stsy healthy and happy boycot these programmes.

    183. Ken500 says:

      Hi Nana

      Where have you been? Folk were asking for you.

    184. Nana says:


      Been looking after sick family, did not have much time to look in on wings.

      Who was asking for me?

    185. Nana says:

      I posted another lot of 5 links at around 8.55am, will be in moderation so check back later.

      Here’s a few more.

      A ‘new flank’ of hacking claims have been opened against Rupert Murdoch’s daily tabloid, lawyers confirmed

    186. Andrew McLean says:

      Did I hear muckle heed McKenzie state that London was the Global Capital of the World? 37:07 bbc I player for proof!
      All hail the new UK, world leaders!
      All roads lead to London all countries bow to London and the Mother of all parliaments!

      The man is a fecund political fool, a flopping, flibertyjibbit and a complete arse!

      We need to get out of this buggerd union, then then can hold our head high as a proud country not an adjunct to the insane asylum that is Westminster and its insular cliques!

    187. Ken500 says:

      More clickbait stories in the Herald. Total lies. Just annoying. Some folk never learn, especially the ignorant, arrogant ‘journalists’ Losing jobs and readers faster than a sieve loses water. There is a faster rail line being built between Edinburgh and Gasgow – now. When will they catch up. Any time soon. The ‘Herald’ based in Wales. Leads to some confusion. ‘Get the story straight’

    188. gordoz says:

      Rev on twitter -Imagine if all the papers decided “All this SNP BAD bollocks clearly isn’t working. Why don’t we try some proper journalism?”

      But that would be contrary to their raison d’etre surely? 🙂

    189. Ken500 says:

      London is the major tax haven in the world. Destroying the world economy. Thatcher invented them.

      The Chinese, – ‘Britain is a small island, without influence, or Empire’

      ‘Scotland the land of Invention and duscovery’

      Scottish invention shaped the world. TV, telecommunications – Internet.

      ‘The Declaration of Arbroath’ – rights of man and Human rights legislation. The ‘Enlightenment’ 1750. Scottish ideas has shaped the World. Commitment to education. The first country in the world to have (free) tertiary (church) education. Equality under the Law. Scottish Law the diversity of the people. The four equal estates. The King, the Nobles, the Church and the People. Equal rights under the Law. Horizontial power.

    190. gordoz says:

      “The terrifying zealotry of #BothVotesSNP” (Or why ye cannae rely on snp to deliver independence )

      Aye very good common space …

      Are Bella C and C space now promoters of #snpbad ???

    191. galamcennalath says:

      Survation poll

      Page 17

      Yes 45.1%
      No 46.5%
      Dk 7.9%

      … Looks stuck on ~50:50

    192. Ken500 says:

      @ Nana

      Glad You are fine. The folk will caught up.

    193. Al-Stuart says:

      Good thread Stu.

      As to the cause of why Labour is in pieces, you might like to read the “Beckett Report” – no official copies until next Tuesday!

      Though not much surprise as it trails the reason for Labour losing the General Election in May 2015 as the fault of the SNP.

      Wow Labour really has lost it – if it ever possessed any rationale in the first place.

      They utterly fail to take responsibility for their own actions.

      The SNP won our election.


      Until Becket and the careerist MPs in that sad ghost of a political party realise that Labour is responsible for it’s own performance, then it will be generations before they recover.

      Whether voters are willing to trust and elect a Given political party is down to the message, leadership, decency and morals of that party. QED. Labour lost in 2016 and are still losing.

      The fault of political failure is at the door of Labour.

    194. galamcennalath says:

      Survation poll has a lot of interesting detail

      Yes% / No% / DK%

      Male – 43.5% / 49.3% / 6.6%
      Female – 46.6% / 43.9% / 9.2%

      16-34 – 53.1% / 39.5 % / 6.9%
      35-54 – 48.7% / 40.6% / 10.2%
      55+ – 35.3% / 57.5% / 6.6%

      The most signifcant demographic group opposing Indy is 55+. I think we all know this.

      For Indyref2 we must tackle 55+ big time, and to a lesser extent women.

    195. Effijy says:

      I love the term Kezianomics!

      Dippity Dug proposes “have you cake and eat it, keep the money for the cake in the bank after spending it on welfare, education, the NHS, and new homes.


      I am really embarrassed that foreigners might see clips of Dippity and Labour at FMQ.
      If they think these half-wits represent the cream of Political opposition in this country they might start sending us crayons, pencils, and colouring in books.

    196. Cadogan Enright says:

      BBC have published the summary on their consultation on the BBC’s future. “Feedback on the BBC’s British Bold and Creative proposals”

      You will all be glad to hear that they are doing a great job and everyone supports the impartiality and integrity of their work.

      A lot of it is written in what we would consider to be ironical language – but they have no sense of this irony. They trot it out without knowledge of the window though which we see them.

      For instance, one could not partner with local news organisations in,say Scotland, to provide more local and relevant coverage as ” Concerns here are centred primarily on two issues: impartiality and quality. The concern over impartiality stems from the belief that non-BBC organisations may not have the same standards of reporting in an unbiased and independent way. A minority suggestion is that other organisation may have vested interests”

      hur hur . . . .

      Large numbers of quotes from UKOK respondents who see the control of the news and the framing of it in a British context as essential for the maintenance of order as we know it “I don’t see the need for separate BBC pages for England,Scotland, Wales and NI, this is what regional news is for and as one united nation, I think we should share the same national news, otherwise this could be seen as supporting an independent Scotland, which may be controversial”

      Widespread concern over Welsh and Gaelic language provision does not get a mench. Nor the need for these programmes to be carried across the UK like Asian programming. “a minority of respondents from all nations also oppose increased content in languages other than English. While this is slightly more common among English respondents, who often suggest such content should be funded by the nation concerned, it is also frequently mentioned by those in Wales and Scotland where the respective Welsh/Gaelic lobby has a much higher profile.

      “Funding for programmes in Gaelic or Welsh should be funded by those nations and not subsidised by solely English speaking licence fee payers for whom the services are of no benefit.” ”

      No mention of the fact that the English licence fee payers are actually subsidized by at least £100 million by Scottish licence fee payers who are actually paying nearly twice as much as Irish licence fee payers who get multiple TV and radio channels for their money.

      There was a good contribution included in the summary of the report that the Rev would approve of (grrrr)

      ““It cannot be cost effective to produce and broadcast in Welsh, Celtic or anything else other than English. It is a total waste of time, money and valuable [space] and the continued use will only create further divisions within the country. I guess that it is a sop to the narrow politicians that want to promote their own local views and agenda but it really is stupid in such a small country to have content promoted in ancient languages that are only understood by a small minority.”

      Essentially what the colonial system has been enforcing on us for years – stop speaking your language – it is un-British.

      In conclusion, the report is a good example of how you should never let a bureaucracy do a review of their own performance.

    197. Andrew McLean says:

      Effijy says 10:02

      Aye cos they ken our neighbours parliament have stolen everything of value to them!

    198. Cadogan Enright says:

      @ galamcennalath 10am

      Wow – Yes has a 3% majority for females ! that’s a turnaround!

      and . . what has happened to the men? – wasn’t there a yes majority there?

    199. ArtyHetty says:

      Cadogan, thanks for that. Just what we should be hearing from our wonderful, state controlled propaganda machine that is the bbc.

      Regards Gaelic, my cousin likes watching bbc Alba and she lives in NE England! Also if you look at many bbc pages, poss all, you have a choice of reading it in Welsh, but certainly not Gaelic.
      As George Robertson blabbed when on his soap box, ‘Scotland has no language or culture’. My friends in Northumberland must have watched that lecture as that’s what they blabbed.

      I am learning Gaelic, via the learngaelic.(org?) site, which is very good. They have links to other sources for learning, the link to the bbc gaelic one, says, ‘no longer being updated’. Better together eh.

      I know how to say, it’s cold, but not yet, it’s bloody freezing, or, it’s baltic! Lol. :-))

      More people should stop paying the tv tax in Scotland, it is a total waste of money.

    200. call me dave says:

      Darran Murray 100hours of community service for his ‘NO’ antics in George Square on Sept 19th, lost his job too.

      Just reading an abandoned Record in the cafe.

      Got the poll in it as well. Page 8 big news!

      Nicola’s star still rising despite failed policies… 🙂

    201. ArtyHetty says:

      Oops, it’s ‘’. Of course.

    202. Fred says:

      Fred, buts the National, takes Bella Caledonia, loves Tunnock’s Teacakes n Lees Macaroon Bars, doesn’t give a monkeys where he gets his petrol or what side of the bed Mundell happens to sleep.

      Time to raise our game don’t you think?

    203. ahundredthidiot says:


      I will take survation with a pinch of salt quite frankly, however, please note undecideds can be given to NO, because they are too cowardly to admit it, just like all those closet fascists in England who voted Tory in the GE.

    204. David Wardrope says:

      Sorry O/T,

      Just read the article on BBC website regarding Lord Janner’s actions at children’s homes. I just can’t get my head round how the BBC for one at least have been clearly aware of all of his sordid actions, and have known the accusations were credible, but the man was untouchable.

      The culture of closing ranks and allowing people protection until they’re out of the reach of justice is sickening, there’s simply no defence or justification for it. And I sadly believe those who cover up such horrible actions still manage to sleep easy at night.

    205. galamcennalath says:

      Nana says:

      “Blimey! Who is this Carr fellow?”

      I consider myself to be on the pragmatic left.

      The ideological left always seem to be more concerned about debating their ideas and policies to the exclusion of actually trying to achieve something practical!

    206. David Wardrope says:

      @ ArtyHetty

      I used the book ‘Teach Yourself Gaelic’ by Boyd Robertson and Iain Taylor to learn, I found it really helpful and easy to understand (and it comes with CDs for pronunciation.

      Interestingly, North Lanarkshire council have introduced Gaelic classes in the afternoons and evenings in some of the towns, its free and aimed at beginners/intermediate speakers and those wishing to learn more about the culture.

    207. ahundredthidiot says:


      …..and tackling 55+, you will need to fill their mouths with gold, by far the most selfish, undeserving, moaning, bitter and twisted, stuck in their ways, feart of change, selfish group of people if ever there was.

      And I know I said selfish twice.

      Even funnier how they complain about the youth today because they also have no manners, didn’t care where their kids were from dawn til dusk, smoked in front of their babies, curse too much and think the world owes them a living.

      I am angry because these wretches will likely deny me independence for at least the next ten years, until nature takes its course.

    208. Les Wilson says:

      This site was a great find, a real asset to finding out all you need to know on Scottish Independence. I hope all wingers read it and search facts on it.Would like to see Stu put a link to it.

    209. galamcennalath says:

      Cadogan Enright says:

      “@ galamcennalath 10am

      Wow – Yes has a 3% majority for females ! that’s a turnaround!
      and . . what has happened to the men? – wasn’t there a yes majority there?”

      Opps. I reverse male and female figures.

      [ 1st post on this failed ]

    210. Hamish McTavish says:


      Just looked out of the window, sun is still shining, electricity is still flowing, gas still getting to cooker.

      Nope, can’t see any problem.

    211. Inkall says:

      By the looks of that commonspace article David Carr is one of those radical Internet feminists obsessed with hating all things male.

      His description of actions as phallocentric and the use of masculinity as a negative point me towards this assumption.

      While that of course is not directly related to this issue it does put him in with a certain sect of “the left” who tend to be far more concerned with their own popularity than much else.

    212. Robert Peffers says:

      @Thepnr says: 15 January, 2016 at 12:45 am:

      “Never saw QT as it’s rae now that I even have the telly on. Might catch up tomorrow if I can be arsed.der.”

      I have no problems with QT either, Thepnr.

      Not since I discovered the wee secret weapon on my coffee table. It’s a thing called a, “Remote Control”, and it has a wee button marked, “OFF”.

      On the subject of the BBC’s chosen people, (or indeed the BBC itself), I always keep in mind that old Scots saying, “Ye cannna mak a silk purse frae a soo’s lug”.

    213. ArtyHetty says:


      Thanks will look into that. I noticed when searching there are lots of courses and discussion groups re Gaelic around the world. There is, I think a Gaelic conversation group held at the St. Andrews rooms of the SNP in Edinburgh. It must be much easier to learn with other people, as the pronunciation I find really difficult.

      Hamish, not looked at the article you link to, ugh bbc, but are they predicting power cuts, and the sun going out if we vote for the SNP in May and then to stay in the EU?

    214. ArtyHetty says:

      O/T, again.

      Did anyone see the map of Scotland showing the extent of the privately owned land in Scotland?
      If it is correct, it is pretty much 99% privately owned, and our cities are included in that.

      Can that be right, I bloody well hope not.

    215. Dr Jim says:

      The BBC license tax and Scotlands lack of benefit from it:

      The BBC always trots out “Eastenders” or the “Dr Who” argument as to their reason for Scotland paying too much for too little

      Perhaps those who accept that excuse might be less than delighted when they realise their money is going directly to subsidise English premiership football
      When did you see your favourite Scottish team last on the BBC ?

      How about thinking about it that way over 55s who are happy with the status quo

      BTW I’m 67 SNPxSNP

    216. Dr Jim says:


      So, in his own words a “Dick”

    217. Cuilean says:

      I think it would be a good idea to do a compilation of quotes and TV appearances by all the Yoons who during ‘Project Fear’ screamed a YES vote would see Scotland being flung out of Europe (Just another lie to scare Scots into voting NO).If the same Yoons now campaign to take us out of Europe this hypocrisy should be highlighted. Maybe the BBC, or John Mackay over on STV, will do an in depth programme on this Scottish political paradox.e.g Ruth Davidson is reported to be in favour of staying in the EU with or without concesssions but David Mundell has still to pin his colours to the mast. In Commons votes on the EU he has either always voted against or been absebt (he’s been absent in the vast majority of such votes).

    218. Nana says:


      Where did you see the map?

      You might find these links interesting.

    219. Sinky says:

      BBC Scotland do cover Scottish Cup games but unlike in England, BBC don’t pay ONE MILLION POUNDS PER GAME.

      BBC spend one million ponds a year in total for Scottish football

    220. galamcennalath says:

      ahundredthidiot says:

      ” tackling 55+, you will need to fill their mouths with gold, ”

      Perhaps the SG needs to start talking about bringing the state pension into line with the best of the EU. And making clear that there is only one way to make that possible!

      As with all things, since we are sitting at 50:50 we only need a few percent conversion from different groups.

      A couple of % from over 55s, and women, and SEG AB, and rural folks, and non Scots born, and … We’re there!

    221. call me dave says:

      @Cadogan Enright

      Thanks for that… licence fee been in my pocket for last 3 years now and after reading some of that, it will stay there.

      one wee extract from

      “And again with the ‘Nations’. Stop caving in to Nationalist demands. Us Scots neither need nor want poor quality programming made in Scotland for Scotland, we want great TV made for the UK as a whole. Only Nationalists care about Scottish-only TV.”
      (Male, Scotland, 35-44)

      “Please, remember that we are still a United Kingdom and share a great cultural heritage.
      Showing programmes based, for example, in Scotland to Scottish audiences only misses a huge opportunity to reinforce this shared understanding.”
      (Female, England, 55-64)

      “The BBC is a fantastic resource and represents excellent value for money […] It enables the UK to feel like a cohesive whole rather than 4 separate entities and for those of us in Northern Ireland that is really important…otherwise we are an isolated 6 damp counties on the edge of Europe.”
      (Female, Northern Ireland, 35-44)

      “Don’t like having a different BBC news page for each nation. The BBC’s core identity is British (not English, Welsh, Scottish & North Irish separately) and you should continue to emphasise this.”
      (Male, Scotland, 25-34)
      Good old Antie knows what’s best.

    222. heedtracker says:

      ALEX Salmond has invited Donald Trump on to his radio show next week to discuss “the beef” between the two men.

      It follows an extraordinary statement from the billionaire who wants to be President of the United States where he called Salmond “an embarrassment to Scotland”.

      Hope The Donald goes for it.

      Oor Eck’s a machine!

    223. galamcennalath says:

      Constituency ballot :
      SNP 52%
      Labour 21%
      Conservatives 16%
      Liberal Democrats 7%

      Regional list ballot :
      SNP 42%
      Labour 20%
      Conservatives 16%
      Greens 9%
      Liberal Democrats 8%

      One simple interpretation is that almost one in five SNP first voters, plan to vote Green on second vote!

    224. Onwards says:

      @call me Dave,
      These BBC comments are obviously politically driven.
      I think realistically we are going to get some changes, as the current BBC position is hard to defend.

      The problem is that programs and news made for the UK as a whole, unavoidably have an English perspective due to sheer weight of numbers. The token Scot and the token Asian etc, just to fill quotas. And UK news often dominated with issues that are of little relevance to many Scots. English NHS, English schools, tube strikes, cricket scores,
      With income tax devolution on the way, I think a Scottish Six news is unavoidable now.

      But broadcasting really needs to be devolved to get a fair deal on funding.
      Can anyone imagine viewers in England putting up with half their licence fee going to BBC Scotland producing programs in Glasgow for a UK audience, with an overwhelmingly Scottish perspective..

    225. Nana says:

      Earlier links have not appeared so here are a few of them.

      I thought all Scots mps were not to vote on the housing bill. Check this map and you will see Mundell did vote so does this mean it’s only snp mps who are banned from voting.–ZkebaiCN8he

      Maximus Inc, which assesses disabled people’s fitness for work, is “a brutal, Wall Street corporation devoid of any humanity” says a former PR manager

      The Conservatives have blocked MPs from debating cuts that will end support for the poorest students

    226. ArtyHetty says:

      Thanks cor the links, I read ‘Who owns Scotland’ it’s very good but bad memory. The map was posted onto fb, so could have been anyone making it up.

      ‘The poor had no lawyers’, another A.Wightman book is very good, but still need to finish reading it.
      So much to read, need to get back to my Maxima de Acuna engraving.

      Have a good day all, keep warm.

    227. Nana says:

      Re my post at 12.41 and the evel carry on, Ian Murray also voted as did NI mps.

      @Les Wilson

      It’s a great resource Les, no harm in reposting the link again

    228. Joemcg says:

      Saw a witty comment from a nawbag as well ” Torquil Crichton? Sounds like a character out of Viz!”

    229. bookie from hell says:

      land of hope & glory leads poll England National Anthem

      call me simples, but isn’t that more British than God Save the Queen

    230. galamcennalath says:

      bookie from hell says:

      “land of hope & glory leads poll England National Anthem”

      Set to Elgar’s March of Pomp and Circumstance. How appropriate.

    231. scunner says:

      @ Nana
      thought all Scots mps were not to vote on the housing bill.

      They are allowed to vote.
      As is usually the case, SNP don’t vote on matters perceived to be English-only.

      As I understand it, if SNP did vote and it affected the outcome in a way the Tories don’t like, the English MPs can use veto to get the result they want. Democracy in action.

      Can someone clarify? I might just be opining “truthiness” which is in reality keich.

    232. Thepnr says:

      @Robert Peffers

      When I do put the telly on I am watching only catch up TV, I cancelled my license and bought a “fire stick” from amazon for £35. If you have a smart TV just plug the stick into it and you have free apps for BBC iplayer, STV, Channel 4 and 5 etc.

      Also for about the same annual cost of a license you can instead subscribe to Amazon Prime and Netflix giving you access to thousands of films and TV series.

      Maybe not for everyone I know but I wouldn’t give the BBC a whiff of my ….. If you know what I mean.

    233. TJenny says:

      galamcennalath – ‘land of hope & glory’ leads poll England National Anthem’.

      I think the title needs modernised to ‘Land of Nae Hope and Tories’. (Still scans). 😉

    234. Al-Stuart says:

      Interesting challenge from former First Minister of Scotland Alex Salmond. As reported in the National today.

      Our Alex has a good point. As First Minister – and now an MP – he has WON 9 elections. Anyone know how many elections Donald Trump has won?

      Inviting Donald Trump to a debate in order to clear the air, Alex Salmond says: “I suggest Mr Trump calls into LBC next Wednesday where he can ask anything he likes. If he has a beef with me I’ll be happy to take his call.” (20th Jan 2016 at 1600 hours GMT).

      The telephone number, when dialling from America is +44 345 60 60 973.

      Methinks that Donald Trump doesn’t have so much beef as a lot of chicken. 🙂




      Maybe see if we can get this on Twitter and Facebook and make it a ‘thing’ – inviting the Donald to have a live, on-air debate with our Eck.



      Don’t think Donald understands the ironic. Even so, I would pay good money to hear that debate.

      Though by the odds that Ladbrokes are giving, it is more than likely Donald Trump won’t be leaving his chicken filled hen house anytime soon.

      Ladbroke odds for Alex Salmond winning such a debate: 1/2.

      Ladbroke odds for Alex Salmond winning such a debate: 6/4.

      Fried chicken a la Trump anyone 🙂

    235. Kenny says:

      jdman: “I recall the (empty) threat by some banks who said they would move their headquarters to London should we vote yes
      my response to that was ‘well if you want to pay eye-watering sums for office space in London and increase you staff wage bill by a factor of 3, then knock yourself out’ good luck explaining that petulance to your shareholders.”

      1. Owning a private bank is, quite literally, a license to print money. It is a win-win business model.

      2. The banks who threatened to leave us are lumbered with debt and derivatives — we would be well shot of them.

      3. So what we need for the next indyref campaign is to set up shell companies or prospective banks, ready to apply for licences when the likes of RBS (at the prompting of Dave and Flipper) threaten to “leave” Scotland. So the YES movement can say, ta very much, there is a business just waiting to take over your offices, customers, business…

      How about it, people? Maybe we can crowdfund a Wings Bank? Wings Whisky Company? Wings Supermarket?

    236. HandandShrimp says:


      I think Trump is too busy scaring the bejaysus out of Americans with a freedom anthem.

    237. Fireproofjim says:

      Ahundredthidiot @12.04
      Kindly modify your insulting description of over 55s .
      At the very least, stop lumping all over 55s into your juvenile sweeping generalisation that they are all selfish fearties who voted NO.
      Many thousands of over fifty-fives, like me, kept the SNP flag flying for many years, when it was not fashionable, and spent the years leading up to the referendum slogging up and down tenement stairs spreading the word. (I am 77).
      What did you ever do apart from shooting your mouth off in Wings.

    238. TJenny says:

      Al-Stuart – Battered chicken, shurely? 😉

    239. Brian Powell says:

      The House of Lords attempt to create a new ‘Act of Union’, the SNP object and the ‘newspapers’ sort of report it.

      If anything highlights the complete collapse of the UK this is it.

      When some talk of a 2nd Ref on independence comes up the papers scream, making most of the story up themselves. There are more screams of a one party state.

      The wholly unelected, anachronistic House of lords puts its grubby hands on the democracy of Scotland and the most worthless 4th Estate in the world says nothing. Labour, most worthless political party in Scotland, says nothing.

    240. starlaw says:

      A hundredthidiot
      Im well over 55 and have been voting SNP since 1972 there are thousands of us, so stop the insults.

    241. Joemcg says:

      Fireproof-is it not a wee bit obvious that post does not mean every single over 55?

    242. heedtracker says:

      For obvious reasons, UKOK land has no political satire but America does, Fcukface VonClownstick’s a gold mine. UK has hopeless BBC Newsquizz on R4, posh English people laugh at their own jokes etc

    243. Paula Rose says:

      I know those of you that have met me will find it hard to believe I am over 55 but I am, so please no more of this lumping a whole demographic together.

      Independence is by no means a new thing and certainly not the preserve of the young, without the work of the older and preceding generations there would not even be this movement.

    244. Capella says:

      Great links as ever, Nana. I see that the Tories in Westminster have sneakily removed grants for poorer English students via an obscure committee rather than a debate in parliament.
      “The Conservatives have blocked MPs from debating cuts that will end support for the poorest students.”

      The National yesterday revealed Ruth Davidson’s plan for a £6,000 invoice for Scottish students on graduating. Something the BBC hasn’t mentioned as far as I know.

      But good news on the land Reform Bill. Aileen McLeod says there will now be a register of landowners in Scotland. No detail as yet though.

      (posting full link as the archive link is not good)

    245. Fireproofjim says:

      Hi, Joe.
      It looked like he was insulting all over 55s to me. Read his post at 10.56. There were no exceptions.

    246. ahundredthidiot says:


      Firstly, it is an example of ‘average’ over 55s, and for all you know I could be in that category. Like house prices being given an ‘average’ price doesn’t mean your house is worth that specific figure. You, my firey friend, are a part of that ‘average’ so stop getting so defensive, its not an attractive quality. Over 55s lost Scotland its independence. Fact. With BBC and BT playing its part of course.

      And I mean firey, not fiery, and when it comes down to what we’ve both ‘done’- nice try, but I’m not biting.

    247. Capella says:

      “Land of Hope and Glory” leads the English Anthem polls. I’d love to hear football crowds trying to sing that one! I might even watch a football match just to enjoy it.

      Did they list “My Old Man Said Follow the Van” by any chance. I think that would be a runaway favourite.

      Or why not a David Bowie number? “Heroes” would fit, or “Life on Mars.”

    248. Kenny says:

      Paula Rose, hear hear, Salmond said that it was where people got their information from, not their age, which affected voting habits. And oldies generally go to the BBC or trashy newspapers like the Express.

      Whereas the real progressive “young oldies” are online!!

    249. Kenny says:

      Oh dear, Land of Hope and Glory, never heard a more ridiculous dirge… and it seems to me just another hymn about God making some nation “superior”…

      I would love for “Freedom Come A’Ye” to be our national anthem, it would be a great advert for Scotland especially when sung at international matches: a national anthem that speaks of internationalism rather than some nonsense about how your country is better or more bonny than the next one…

      Of course, the rugby crowd can keep their “Flower of Scotland” but….

    250. ahundredthidiot says:


      If what I said does not apply to you, then you shouldn’t feel insulted, in fact, I would doubt what I said would apply to many if anyone on WoS. I will however attempt to quell my anger in future when I start on the ‘seniors’ in Scottish society.

      Despite the fact they sold my country down the river.

      There I go again….maybe I just can’t help it.

    251. handclapping says:

      @Paula Rose 2.02

      Dolly Rebecca Parton Dean is 69 would you believe! 70 in 4 days time.

    252. ahundredthidiot says:


      Please take this the right way, Salmonds was being kind and offering a get out of jail free card with his statement.

      Yes, yes, the BBC played its part, the BT campaign was evil, but none of them had a vote. It was votes that won it. Individuals placing an X in a box.

      We need to start looking inward, first to work out where we lost it (over 55s, to the best of my knowledge) and how to win next time by removing that risk. I suggested filling their mouths with gold, and with the real target audience in the pension bracket, that needs to be the soft underbelly we aim for.

      Two ways to do this. Scare them or intice them. Carrot or stick. Unfortunately BT may have found the answer to that question.

      More pelters my way no doubt.

    253. Thepnr says:

      It’s not any kind of a surprise to me that our older generation at more likely to vote No than Yes. Resistance to change is more prominent the older one gets. That’s simply a fact.

      My Mother In Law is a good example, she will be 78 this year, voted No in the referendum but voted SNP in May? Duh! She read the WBB cover to cover, agreed that the media was bias, there was some merit in running our own affairs etc.

      She is an Independence supporter at heart but just can’t bring herself to tick that box, take the plunge into the unknown.

      The UKOK government knew this of course and that was the whole reason behind Project Fear and it worked. If we are to win then we really need to tackle this issue, so talk to those closest to you though it is a hard slog. We have to combat their fears, nullify them.

      There are no bombs or arms being used in this fight for freedom from Westminster rule but it is a war between two factions. A propaganda war where their arsenal includes all the press and television, our main weapon is our tongues.

      Use them. Silence is not an option.

    254. jdman says:

      “How about it, people? Maybe we can crowdfund a Wings Bank? Wings Whisky Company? Wings Supermarket?”

      The we could branch out into fast food and entertainment, we could have
      Chicken Wings,
      buffalo Wings,
      Bingo Wings,….

      there’s nae brakes!!!
      Aa canne stoapppp HHHEEEELLLLPPPP!

    255. Nana says:

      @Paula Rose, well said!

      Over 55 you say, wow I can hardly believe it.


      Will be interesting to see what comes to light re transparency. Sure there will be a few offshore trusts involved who won’t want their shady dealings being uncovered.

    256. Andrew McLean says:

      a hundred idiot

      Thank god I am so very young or I would be really offended and hurt!

      but seriously I am more concerned with the statistics on incomers, not pc I know but the statistics make sobering reading and rather than castigate oldies, unlike me who is young, we should be targeting them to bring them in to the cause!

      Ps I am 52, so very much not an oldie

    257. frogesque says:

      Forget the 55s – under or over.

      How can I get through to one of my tattoed, RFC supporting, UJ waving, Scots born, UKIP supporting neighbours? (Otherwise he’s actually quite a nice guy!)

      This is the real problem we need an antidote for.

    258. galamcennalath says:

      Re over 55s

      In this latest Survation poll (with the usual 1000ish sample and 3% error) found …

      Yes 35.3%
      No 57.5%
      DK 6.6%

      … I’m in this group and I’m one of the 35% who would vote Yes.

      The 65% who aren’t Yes need persuaded, convinced, swayed, educated, and if needs must, bribed. The entire group doesn’t need alienated!

    259. galamcennalath says:

      frogesque says:

      “How can I get through …”

      When a referendum is won, all negotiations completed, and Independence Day approaches … there will be perhaps a million or so Scots very very annoyed. They will only be won over to Indy after they have seen many years of benefits relative to the languishing rUK.

    260. Fred says:

      What about the Edinburgers & Aberdonians who lost Scotland the referendum? eh!

    261. Thepnr says:

      frogesque says:

      How can I get through to one of my tattoed, RFC supporting, UJ waving, Scots born, UKIP supporting neighbours? (Otherwise he’s actually quite a nice guy!)

      There are No voters that may be open to persuasion such as my Mother in Law, then there are others that no amount of reasoned argument or rational thought will budge them an inch.

      Your nice neighbor will likely fall into the second category, plenty tattooed guys voted Yes, many RFC supporters will have voted Yes. It’s just a hunch but the fact that he votes UKIP makes me suspect any effort spent trying to persuade him to support Independence will fall on deaf ears.

      FWIW I think the best place to start with any effort at persuasion is with the don’t knows and those that didn’t vote, the’re still a significant percentage of people like that.

      Believe me that is they who are being targeted with UKOK propaganda.

      Stick in frogesque, hopefully just a matter or time but we’ll get there.

    262. Joemcg says:

      A perfunctory perusal of the comments on the records website reveals 9 out of 10 anti-independent posts are by Rangers fans. This section would not vote yes if their own life depended on it.

    263. Gary45% says:

      Tam Jardine @12.55am.
      Cheers Tam,
      Having boycotted Tunnocks products, I recently started munching the Lees snowball and their wee jammy teacakes.
      Now I am going to have to boycott them also.
      I better sit down and have a wee dram.(it is Friday after 5. It was wine o clock before 5, now its whiskey o clock.
      num num
      Still pissed off about the snowball.

    264. Gary45% says:

      ooops stuck in a wee e their sorry.
      need to wear my specks more.

    265. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Kenny at 2.19

      Agreed – especially as the tune – The Bloody Fields of Flanders – was written by a Dunoon man – Pipe Major John “Jock” McLellan.

    266. Cadogan Enright says:

      Lads and Lassies all

      PLEASE playback RT at 9.20 (about 10 mins ago) if you can?

      BBC publicly mocked and the Daily Heil’s anti Scottish rants too

    267. Fred says:

      @ Gary 45%, if you’re into boycotts you’ll have to be carefull with the whisky, some brands deserve this as much as Tunnocks. 🙂

    268. Gary45% says:

      I suppose I am one of those people who sticks to their principles.
      When the Macallan got taken over many years ago, I said I would never buy another bottle, as they laid off a number of staff. Also Cadbury as they also laid off staff.
      Likewise Asda, John lewis, M&S, Next, Sainsbury’s and all the rest who said they would increase prices if Scotland became independent, we haven’t given them a penny since.
      If someone can give a list of the malt whisky’s who voted no I would be grateful.
      I call it karma.

    269. Fred says:

      Gary, I think Grouse was one & Grant’s (which wan though?) was another but even if Donald Trump buys Lagavulin I shall still be accepting gifted bottles!

    270. Gary45% says:

      Brian Doonthetoon,
      Thanks for that, Gutted that Dave Gilmour put his name to the naysayers.
      He has openly spoken out in support for the Palestinian cause.
      Like Fred says, I will now only drink Whisky gifted to me.
      I have just been given a bottle of Scapa from Orkney (num num).
      I suppose there is a good chance they were naysayers also, which is a pity.

    271. Bill Fraser says:

      Thee lady is embarrassing when she opens her FMQ’s

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