Crunching the numbers
Posted on
January 15, 2016 by
Rev. Stuart Campbell
For ages now it’s been nagging at us that there wasn’t a quick and easy reference point for all the opinion polls we’ve commissioned, listing all the subjects covered by each poll and linking to both our own analyses of the figures and the raw data tables for people who wanted to go delving in amongst the stats themselves.
So now there is – it’s here. (And in future you can easily locate it under “Polls” in the menu bar running across the top of the front page.) We’re off for a bit of a lie down.
That’ll come in handy.
The Donald thinks Alex Salmond is an embarrassment to Scotland. Could we have a wee poll on that.
Who is the biggest embarrassment
1. Donald the Draft Dodger
2. Alex the Dragon Slayer
Ach dinna waste yer time we a ken the answer:-)
Nice one, I’m sure it’ll be well used by the time May comes around!
Good work Rev.
I had a wee browse.Scotland didn’t say No Thanks.Scotland said No,not just at the moment,thanks,but maybe later.
Will another dose of unwanted Tory rule convince people we are,indeed,better together?
Be wary – evidence can be skewed by idiotic stenographers that call themselves journalists.
Gaunnae naw dae that!
SHOULD SCOTLAND BE AN INDEPENDENT COUNTRY?
Yes 35%
No 43%
Undecided 20%
From October 2013.
Some interesting data in that archive. You deserve a wee lie down!
That’s a right handy facility.
Nice. 🙂
Grand.
I’m always wary about statistics that I can’t check myself.
I don’t think I was always that cynical. It’s a result of years of MSM manipulation.
Speaking of which did we see the doctor who blew Jeremy Hunts 20% more likely to croak if you are admitted over a weekend statement out of the water.
Yup…. Using his own figures.
The man has no credibility left.
Statistics? Well done. A handy reference point.
Meanwhile…. from the Telegraph… Watching from the window of the ISS, Nasa’s Scott Kelly said: “t’s really cool to see that Union Jack in space. The Union Jack has explored all over the world, now it’s exploring space.”
Or in other words, spaceman in space can see out a window to another spaceman in a spacesuit that is also in space. On the sleeve of his spacesuit in space there’s a flag and the bloke inside can see the flag from the window.
Hurrah. God Save The Queen, they don’t like it up them, it’s the old Dunkirk spirit, 3 kittens on a shirt, blue birds over the white cliffs of Dover, you’re havin a larf aintcha (copyright wee baldy bloke from Eastenders), 1966 and all that.
Meanwhile back here on earth the queues at the food banks continue.
Christ, it’s enough to make you want to shit.
Stuart-you are spoiling us. Thank you -will definitely come in handy.
@ Inverclyder
We need a YES Saltire, an ffin great humungous Saltire laser projected onto a snowy mountainside that can bloody well be seen from the ISS and Google Maps!
Well, after this you certainly deserve a Tardis 😀 😀
Surely it’s high time the whip was cracked at Pacific Quay. The disgraceful behaviour of one particular auld bitch trashing our youngest MP’s maiden speech was the last straw. Her career should be terminated by the government refusal to accept her as an interviewer. Mutton dressed as lamb should be off the menu!
Ditch the Bitch!
Inverclyder said at 3:25pm:-
“Meanwhile back here on earth the queues at the food banks continue.
Christ, it’s enough to make you want to s…”
The Scottish Tories,Scottish Labour and Scotland’s Champion [the Daily Record] begged us to stay in this “broadshouldered” Bettertogether wonderful Union of ours!!
The lying…………………”
A couple of months ago The Daily Record shed tears about Scotland being the Foodbank Capital of Great Britain!!
link to archive.is
@ frogesque
Here’s a wee YES Saltire for you
drive.google.com/open?id=0B4qjOQE8OMfiSF9tcS1lWElLWlU
Very interesting, compare/contrast May 2014
Which of the following things do you think are LIKELY to happen in the next 10 years?
Men were twice as likely as women to believe this.
There will be a Labour First Minister of Scotland
Yes: 40%
No: 22%
Don’t know: 38%
8+ years to go for SLab, or 2 elections. Will Kez stay on if May polls hold, how can they get a SLab FM over Sturgeon, probably all depends on The Vow shyste. EVEL seems to have been successfully buried by BBC propagandists in Scotland.
My Slovene girlfriend explains the cunning plan for bringing SNP Scots.gov with the Scotland bill. TeamGB MSM have work to do.
link to notesfromnorthbritain.wordpress.com
All bubbles burst. All tides recede. Eventually. At the moment the SNP is, to many people, more of a cult than a political party”
Thanks a lot for those Stu. The links to the tables are particularly useful as some of them never appeared on the Panelbase archive (I suspect you forgot to tell Ivor Knox to release them) and your posts didn’t always cover every question asked.
And you do tend to ask questions that no on else does.
Notice there’s a wee story about Ruthies PPB. You can see a homeless beggar raking through a bin in the background as one of her talking Tory heads spouts guff! Brilliant!
wow, a lot of work, well done stu
however, the lastest survation poll shows that 20% of indy supporters plan to vote green in the list vote in may
contrary to advice from stu and james Kelly, and many others on wos, it is time to discuss this rationally, you can no longer ignore this as the polls show that it is going to happen and the individual regions need to reviewed
there is common ground, I think this is a good place to start
it has to be snp 1&2 in the borders/South Scotland region, no question, indeed, rise and the greens should announce now the intention to stand no candidates in any constituency in that region and ask their supporters in that region to vote snp 1 & 2. this would go a long way to restoring their reputation with the indy supporters
Do we all agree with this?
Was just thinking about this recently, great to have it all indexed.
Revisiting that first poll is bittersweet indeed: Scots trusted Yes figures more than No figures, Scots wouldn’t vote to form the UK if Scotland was independent right now, Scots realise Trident doesn’t actually defend against anything, Scots even believed Westminster would shaft Scotland in the event of a No vote… yet look at the official results.
Regrettably, I was recently made redundant.
After 40 years plus of paying into the “System”, I’m horrified
to see how the Westminster Government treats the workers who have filled their coffers.
My final wage took me up to the last day of December, so I reported my situation to the local job centre on their first day back, after their holidays.
They sent me home to be my own civil servant as they no longer take any notes or give you any advice unit You fill in their brain dead forms on-line, and wait for them to contact you
with a time and date for an interview.
In spite of being recorded as paying decades worth of Income Tax, National Insurance and Council Tax, I had to take my Passport, Driving Licence and 2 Utility Bills-that you need to
print off as it all happens by Direct Debit/ On-line.
At Interview they ask, and get you to fill in a form to advise why you did not report to them on your first day of unemployment.
The fact that they were closed due to the holidays
didn’t seem to work for them, and they threw i that their English Counterparts returned to work 1 day earlier than Scotland. Should I have paid the fare to speak to someone in Carlisle?
I have to go on-line every day to log into a Universal Jobsekers
site where they can monitor to see if someone who has been working longer than anyone working in the job centre, intends to work?
Their site is quite a joke as it proposes to suggest that they have 40 pages of jobs for my skills in my area???
In fact you find that some companies uses several or any recruitment agencies who post the jobs on the site, so you may
click on 6 potential jobs from 6 agencies, all to find they
are all presenting the same single post.
You click on very basic headlines, only to waste your time as
the job description either has nothing to do with your skills,
or the job is in London.
If I could afford a house in London,I wouldn’t need to work.
Another time waster is a Job where perhaps you see that they need someone in the area where you live. Great.
Open it up and find the same company requires a cold caller, on commission only, in every area, Partick, Scotstoun, Whiteinch,Yoker, etc. This is supposed to represent dozens of Jobs, when I’d say it doesn’t represent one genuine job.
Each day I go through all of the pages to look for anything new to that date, however software seems to allow them to list older
unsuitable jobs as described below, as being a new listing every
few days?
I have also discovered that Agencies will create fictitious jobs, just to gather hundreds of CVs, that then allow them to approach companies with a claim to have an enormous portfolio already on tap.
Some Agencies can then ask you to visit them, but the main reason behind the request is to ask you for details of who the
main employment contact was at your previous jobs,name, address, phone number, workforce numbers, etc, that will allow them to canvas for themselves.
I have now received a letter from the DSS which states that I cannot claim while they are on holiday, and for some unjustifiable reason, no one gets a penny of their contributions back until you have been unemployed for 7 days.
If you get a job, you must tell them immediately, as they can stop paying you anything so that you have nothing coming in while you work one month’s notice?
The whole situation is a major confidence trick!
This doesn’t apply to me, but did you know that if your partner has 24 hours work in any week, which could be on minimum wage, they automatically calculate that they earn enough to partially support you?
I’ll get a job soon I’m sure, but I’d never attempt to sign on again as the rigmarole for a pittance just isn’t worth it.
I feel so sorry for the people I seen coming in to ask for a referral to a Food Bank. One chap I overheard had eaten every day over the holidays so used up all his benefits and had nothing to eat in his cupboards.
Where are you now Charles Dickens when this needs recording?
The Government just steal your money and hide behind a civil servant, once you get beyond their on-line gatekeeper.
A disgraceful Tory mess bolstered up by Labour Lords!
Scots even believed Westminster would shaft Scotland in the event of a No vote… yet look at the official results.
1. BBC style Project Fear
2. The Vow
Celebs announcing “stay with us” etc
Had BBC 24 tv news on at work all week and Scotland or Scottish people have never been mentioned once, other than their weather forecast.
O/T
@joemcg says at 4:38 pm …. ”Notice there’s a wee story about Ruthies PPB. You can see a homeless beggar raking through a bin in the background as one of her talking Tory heads spouts guff! Brilliant!”
I read about that in The National too Joe. What a cracker! I wonder if Ruthie’s party political broadcast will now be removed or remain with Ruthie pointing out that the bin-raker should have visited a food bank. Then again maybe they think that begging in Scotland is now the norm and why wouldn’t they as they created the situation.
I’m just thinking about her bleating on, on the PPB, about the Tories improving the lives of Scots … ha, ha, ha great!
@Petra
@joemcg
www,youtube.com/watch?v=fswTtu7-3I0
link to youtube.com
O/T
It’s not showing up galamcennalath. I’ll try this.
link to youtube.com
link to youtube.com
Full stop instead of comma after www
@schrodingers cat
Yes I agree, the priority though has to be an SNP majority, if that is assured then I’d like to see as many unionist politicians as possible lose their seats in Holyrood.
The difficulty is that “assurance” of an SNP majority, all we have to go on is the polls and how much can they be trusted? I’ve no idea and fully understand then the reasons for SNP 1 and 2.
I won’t be trying to persuade anyone thinking along these lines to have a rethink, at least not now. The Greens and Rise could have done this so much better by also working together in certain areas and not opposing each other.
With an anti-unionist coalition of some sort in place you really could destroy the traditional parties, so much so that they really do become an irrelevance. Doubt very much that will happen this time, in fact I know it won’t. We can but dream.
anybody know if Edinburgh council is a coalition between Labour and SNP? maybe we should ask STV’s David Cowan.
David Cowan said “coalition” about a dozen times in a report about possible redundancies in Edinburgh council but carefully omitted to attribute Councillor Andrew Burns allegiance (Labour)who is the leader of the council, who spoke to camera.
Hi JDMan
Yes Edinburgh Council is Labour/SNP coalition
Call me suspicious, but I have never quite understood why there are two votes. I have always wondered if it was in fact in built sabotage. It was inevitable that some less savvy people would interpret it as first choice, second choice. This would spread the vote and make an overall majority of seats for one party more difficult.
Personally I would never consider splitting my vote. I have chosen the party which best meets my requirements so I will vote for it twice.
I have no objection to the arithmetic system for allocating list seats. Why can’t the constituency total figures be used for the regional top up lists?
Ok. It would make it difficult for small parties to field candidates in every constituency in a region. Easily solved. Give discounts on deposits where the party puts up candidates in many constituencies.
@ jdman
See the political control site by COSLA for who controls councils:
link to cosla.gov.uk
@Schrodingers cat –
FWIW, I agree with Thepnr and share his concerns.
I didn’t expect that this discussion would arise again (and still be on-topic) so soon, but I hope, this time, you will avoid personal insults – they detract from your analysis/proposals.
I came across something of interest in The National today. Something that I read about at the time, but had forgotten about, and to my mind helpful when discussing the current oil situation with Unionists.
Someone had written into TN about the McCrone Report but also mentioned Standard and Poor’s report produced with regard to Scotland’s economy in February 2014.
They stated that ”Even excluding North Sea output and calculating per capita GDP only by looking at onshore income Scotland would qualify for our highest economic assessment. Higher GDP per capita, in our view, gives a country a broader potential tax and funding base to draw from, which supports credit worthiness.”
The author goes on to point out that ”In most democracies such good news would be shouted from the rooftops, but needless to say BBC Scotland did not mention this story or the other two above (McCrone and Dennis Healy expose).”
And from Business for Scotland …..
link to businessforscotland.co.uk
”In other words, the perception of Scotland’s credit-worthiness could be even stronger if one or two banks left.” ……. …………………………………………
”Far from worrying about the volatility of oil prices, credit ratings agencies seem to be more concerned about the highly volatile financial sector that dominates the UK’s economy, and of course contributed to the recession and credit crisis. Business for Scotland has long argued that this is where the real threat to Scotland’s economy lies.”
O/T
I came across something of interest in The National today. Something that I read about at the time, but had forgotten about, and to my mind helpful when discussing the current oil situation with Unionists.
Someone had written into TN about the McCrone Report but also mentioned Standard and Poor’s report produced with regard to Scotland’s economy in February 2014.
They stated that ”Even excluding North Sea output and calculating per capita GDP only by looking at onshore income Scotland would qualify for our highest economic assessment. Higher GDP per capita, in our view, gives a country a broader potential tax and funding base to draw from, which supports credit worthiness.”
The author goes on to point out that ”In most democracies such good news would be shouted from the rooftops, but needless to say BBC Scotland did not mention this story or the other two above (McCrone and Dennis Healy expose).”
And from Business for Scotland …..
link to businessforscotland.co.uk
”In other words, the perception of Scotland’s credit-worthiness could be even stronger if one or two banks left.” ……. …………………………………………
”Far from worrying about the volatility of oil prices, credit ratings agencies seem to be more concerned about the highly volatile financial sector that dominates the UK’s economy, and of course contributed to the recession and credit crisis. Business for Scotland has long argued that this is where the real threat to Scotland’s economy lies.”
Capella
It was a rhetorical question, it was a ridiculously thin attempt on the part of STV to make sure everyone knew the SNP were in coalition with Labour in Edinburgh so if your going blame Labour for the redundancies make sure you blame the SNP as well since they’re in coalition with Labour remember, did we tell you it was a coalition?
but interestingly when we see the leader of a council they make damn sure if its a bad news story they put up on the screen that the culprit is an SNP member, however when the leader of the council Andrew Burns was on screen he was cited as “the leader of the council” not the Labour leader of the council.
Perhaps Ruthie was giving us a picture of the next UKOK Dividend. Food Bins as opposed to Food Banks, Her friends in low places might have development plans for food bank locations. Well they cant exactly hammer charitable institutions for the Council Tax etc.
@ jdman – oops. Apologies.
@Capella
Good link all the same, surprising how often the Labour party will form an allience with the Tories just to keep out the largest party i.e. the SNP from running the council.
Can’t wait to get the election in May over then 2017 council elections. Plenty to chew over for the next year and a half.
@jdman
You still paying the telly tax? C’mon john get rid of it, watch all the programs you like after they’ve been broadcast, cut off the SCUMS cash.
We’re in charge of what we view, not these propagandists. Ignore, it’s easy, liberating and not at all painful 🙂
Regards Edinburgh council, it is a coalition, with liebour having 2-3 more councillors than the SNP.
We would need to know who makes the decisions and who voted for redundancies.
What we do know, is that when it comes to the trams folks are quite ignorant. They tend not to want to know that the SNP totally voted against it going ahead when it was clear what a bloody ridiculous project, regards value for money. All 3 unionist parties voted to take it forward so we ended up with a white elephant, pretty much. A vanity project in fact. It takes up to 10 minutes to cross parts of Princes street as a result, so now if ever going for a train, we have to set off at least 10 minutes earlier!
Petra
Moody’s the other main economic assessment ratings agency came to the same conclusions & suggested that Scotland could with independence become one of the richest countries in the world.
Pie Chart on Statistics of Maryhill Foodbank on Scot2.scot (glasgow region Mitch Kilbride ) note Milton area that Councillor Billy McAllister represents , along with GCC they want to see Maryhill Foodbank closed.
More to follow.
@
Lollysmum
Links and quotes are always useful so hope you don’t mind 🙂
Moody’s says that Scotland’s credit profile would almost certainly be consistent with an investment grade rating. While there are significant uncertainties associated with Scottish arrangements post-independence, an ‘A’ rating is perhaps the most likely at the outset, but with risks tilted to the downside. Over time, greater clarity over (and confidence in) Scotland’s institutional structure and measures to address longer-term fiscal issues could make higher rating levels attainable.
https://www.moodys.com/research/Moodys-Scottish-independence-unlikely-to-have-rating-implications-for-UK–PR_298421
However an A is lower than the UK’s current Aa1. Oh look! There’s that currency thing agin.
“Over time, greater clarity over (and confidence in) Scotland’s institutional structure and measures to address longer-term fiscal issues could make higher rating levels attainable.”
An ‘A’ rating would give Scotland a similar rating to countries such as Poland, the Czech Republic and Mexico, but would be at least two notches below the UK’s current Aa1 rating, meaning borrowing costs for the newly independent government would likely be higher.
Moody’s said the impact of redenomination on outstanding debts in a new currency, given its expectation that the UK authorities would likely refuse a currency union, would be the most significant factor for Scotland’s credit rating.
link to archive.is
I’m not sure I want to live in the richest country in the world. I’m not sure I want to live in the greatest country in the world. I do know I want to be as far away as posssible from the British establishment.
Am I being too picky?
ThePnr
Thanks for that-would normally link but was trying to eat dinner whilst typing one-handed.
Bill Hume says:
“I want to be as far away as posssible from the British establishment. Am I being too picky?”
Nope. That is perfectly reasonable.
I suspect historically, most independence movements are as much about getting away from misrule, as anything.
scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t35.0-12/12562712_946718382085785_1033678665_o.jpg?oh=d05016917e3c90a967e972c5cb335f6b&oe=569B077C
Some loonball pictured with Nicola also wearing a yes T-shirt giving us a bad name,he’s all over social media on video taking a hammer to a pack of British teacakes! Dear oh dear. Yoons having a field day. Nicola not there at the time! Lol.
scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t35.0-12/12562712_946718382085785_1033678665_o.jpg?oh=d05016917e3c90a967e972c5cb335f6b&oe=569B077C
scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtp1/v/t34.0-12/12571011_946719358752354_755148097_n.jpg?oh=3c0e7d6e5c6525ab144090260d030983&oe=569C06B7
HSCIC figures find that 26 per cent of people in England have been diagnosed with a mental illness. BBC News, Daily Mail
Can anyone confirm that 26% of the English electorate voted Tory in the last General Election?
Made a muck o that post at 8.20.
Why isn’t that begging woman in Ruthies video off to the bank to take out some of the £100 a month Cameron says she should be saving to tide her over
No need to beg, there is no poverty (disgrace)
Threpnr says
link to moodys.com
However an A is lower than the UK’s current Aa1. Oh look! There’s that currency thing again.
The UK rating comes strongly on the back of stealing Scotland’s
resources. If we could dump them, their rating would certainly drop rapidly.
If Scotland “only” got an A rating like Poland, etc, I don’t see it being a bad thing if we could also stand proud as a stand alone nation in charge of its own destiny and not oppressed by
an immoral neighbour who makes you a 2nd Class Citizen.
Bring it on if an A rating is the worst thing we have to worry about!
I used to believe radio 4, hook line and sinker. The referendum has opened my eyes. They lied about Scottish independence, what else are they lying about. Turns out just about everything, don’t believe the bum(british unionist media) about anything. They bullshit about anything they report on.
Spot on Ian @ 8:44.
The British Bullshit Corporation.
@Effijy
We should take everything with a pinch of salt. The ratings like the ratings agency are all a load of neo-liberal bullshit. None of them could predict the credit crunnch.
Basket cases like RBS were triple A rated, baloney. Yet this kind of propaganda is what some folk need. I’ll read this crap, digest it, then shit it out.
The fact that I read their spiel doesn’t mean that I believe it.
Ian Brotherhood
Thepnr
I think you missed my point
whether you agree with tactical list voting or not is irrelevant
20% of the snp constituency vote plans to vote greens in the list
problem is, how can you educate everyone in eg, south Scotland region NOT to do this. not to vote greens on their list vote. very difficult and impossible to do completely
I believe RISE, SG and Solidarity, after pursuing the list votes from snp supporters are the only ones who can do this effectively by eg, in south Scotland, not standing any candidates in any constituency or in the list.
If you think lending your list vote is too risky, fine, vote snp 1 & 2
but you must accept than some will vote tactically, the poll shows this. but everyone would agree that the south of Scotland is definitely a region that everyone should vote snp 1 & 2
also,
What will kezia do, unemployment is looming the labour party is split and finished. There is no prospect of labour uk forming a uk government in the next 25 years. Still there are many prospects in Scotland’s retail sector. Maybe that is a better prospect.
Oil is such a burden. First it’s gonna run out remember….now it’s price is going down…down…down. Why is Scotland so cursed . How on earth have other country’s coped with this cursed feckin burden that is oil.
Personally , I never knew so much about oil before, but as there is a daily update now ,thanks to the various forms of media , then I am becoming an expert, well on the price anyway. ( Rumour is there is a new TV channel on Oil…more really 10 minute updates on falling price… via freeview, a wee heads up ).Channel will be discontinued when oil prices start to rise.
How UK goverments have coped throughout the years with this burden I do not know.
Hats off to them as it must have been hell trying to manage such a feckin piss ridden cursed thing.
God help us all , and the UK Govt., when the price goes up because then it will be every feckin man for themselves…..yeh …..good luck Tories when oil prices goes up…yeh…see how you cope then wae the burden that is oil …yeh…..yea get me .
Sorry if this has already been mentioned. 😉
It looks like another *cough* newspaper may be in a wee teeny weent itsy bitsy little bit of trouble. 😉
link to thecanary.co
In recognition of this incredible news I think I’ll just leave this here. 😉
link to youtube.com
@schrodingers cat
I don’t believe I misunderstood you and that is why I agreed with your post. Absolutely everyone in the borders region should vote SNP 1 and 2.
Other areas are far less clear cut, if I thought all those voting SNP for the constituency would vote for another Indy supporting party in the regions then that is a no brainer. The cost to the likes of Labour and the Tories would be huge.
I would like to keep an open mind until much nearer the election, in some regions there is certainly scope for using your regional vote to better effect if it means dumping a Unionist in favour of an Indy supporting candidate.
Plenty time yet to see all the lists, who is standing where, how stong the vote is in each area. Might as well wait and see. I may have a different opinion then.
Iain at 8:44
I am starting to really loathe Radio 4. I used to like it pre referendum as a kind of relic of days gone by, although even then, post devolution it was starting to sound more and more foreign and irrelevant. But it was still good (so I thought) for world news and current affairs.
How that has changed. Theres nothing like actually being the subject of propaganda to wake you up. Now post referendum all I hear is smug posh English people who seem to be really up themselves and have taken to making jokes about the SNP in their stupid parlour games.
I still listen to some of their evening environmental and scientific programs but thats about all I can stomach.
I equate it now with WW2 propaganda, which is where they learned their trade after all.
It every one votes SNP x 2 what’s the problem.
@Thepnr
The whole problem with relying on a credit rating is that they are dished out by neo-liberal – basically criminal institutions. They are very much part of the financial establishment and are used to manipulate policies of governments and turn a blind eye to criminal behaviour within companies.
Japan is a good example of the irrelevance of the credit rating..
When the Japanese govt went on a big spree of deficit spending to reignite its deflationary economy, their credit rating was downgraded. This didn’t deter Japan who continued with it’s policy of govt spending. Moody’s continued to downgrade Japan and Eventually gave it junk status.
Here’s the kicker. People still invested heavily in Japan and continued to buy it’s govt bonds. Japan continued to ‘borrow’ at a very low rate.
The best of it is, they downgraded Japan to a rating below Botswana – a country Japan was supplying financial aid to.
The same ratings agencies were giving Enron and other big multinationals a clean bill of health just before they went under. That should have been the end for the ratings agencies but they are part of the new-liberal financial establishment and so they are allowed to continue to reek havoc.
We have to see past the garbage that these institutions (who are basically engaging in criminal behaviour) come out with. Here’s a coupe of links.
The first concerning Scotland’s assessment by the ratings agencies in the run up to indyref….
link to bilbo.economicoutlook.net
This one is pertinent to Japan and the ratings agencies..
link to bilbo.economicoutlook.net
O/T
@ Lollysmum says at 7:42 pm ”Petra, Moody’s the other main economic assessment ratings agency came to the same conclusions & suggested that Scotland could with independence become one of the richest countries in the world.”
Thanks for that information Lollysmum (showing my ignorance as I’ve never heard of them – education, education) and also to thepnr. No matter where the information comes from we REALLY need some data to PROVE that we can ‘MAKE IT’ WITHOUT oil revenue. Some of the prior yes voters that I know of are bringing up the ‘oil crisis’ over and over again and are REALLY concerned about it (no matter what data I spout). If they are, how are the no voters and more so the undecided voters (many of whom voted NO due to scare-mongering) thinking now?
As to polling helping us to identify the groupings that we should target, well it seems clear that for STARTERS we should focus on those aged over 55. That helps as we can then attempt to ascertain what deterred them from voting YES. We know already that ‘Gordy Broons pension SCARE’ was a big deal so we can leaflet, attend clubs, groups and so on to get the message across.
However we also know that 74% of rUK relocators voted NO to the ABSOLUTE DETRIMENT of us achieving our Independence (300,000 PLUS). How many of them are aged over 55?
I say this not meaning to be divisive (or racist .. far from it) but to get to the bottom of it all … ascertain the FACTS.
Has anyone carried out a poll to this effect? If we establish that many Scots over the age of 55 voted YES (and imo visiting many individuals in their own homes found that this was the case) and that many rUK relocators (staunch hard to shift Unionists) over the age of 55 voted NO (and imo visiting many individuals in their own homes found that this was the case) we should then focus on other groupings such as the younger, well educated, better off, strapped with a mortgage type of individuals (many of whom voted NO).
Ultimately what I’m trying to say is that the CURRENT over 55 year old ‘NO’ polling data actually ‘tells us’ nothing at all. If it is ‘telling us nothing at all’ why waste our time on this group?
John Curtice, President of the British Polling Council, from St Austell England hasn’t looked into this either (or has he?) and therefore has nothing to say. Strange! If he wont do it, chooses not to do it, we should. Let’s sort it out (poll to that effect) or move on.
@ jdman at 7:05pm ….. STV propaganda techniques ……. practically on a par with the BBC now.
You’ve outlined some great examples jd. Time for us all to complain, complain, complain to STV.
More than anything I’m sick and tired of having to get my news on here, in particular positive news, that STV NEVER reports. All John McKay lies (live) from Glasgow now relates to SNP doom and gloom ……. or Rangers fitbae. More than anything no word of Westminster cuts. Enough is enough.
@Schrodingers cat –
I did not miss your point.
That ‘point’ is being digested by many folk who aren’t quite as cocksure as you about how things are going to pan-out. (Most of us can’t predict the future…does asking the I-Ching count?)
Your previous comments suggest that you feel ‘betrayed’ by the ‘Left’ in Scotland.
Is that so?
Well, boo-fucking-hoo mister – a lot of people who’ve worked their arses off to bolster socialist activity in Scotland will have a good greet for ye.
🙁 🙁 🙁
The ‘Left’ in Scotland is struggling for proper representation – the last thing we need right now is patronising missives from amateur psephologists.
Do yourself a big favour S.C. – have a wee think about how you ‘speak’ to people, eh?
People should vote for what they think is right for them and that’s OK….BUT.. There are loads of folk punting this tactical stuff and it’s been explained many many times, it’s impossible to predict outcomes with our voting system unless you’re a clairvoyant
“Polls say”: Why would anybody in Scotland believe what a poll says, have we not been lied to enough without folk punting the Agendas they want
I want Independence and I believe the only way to get it is with the SNP so it’s SNPxSNP then I know I’ve done the best I can do
That’s me just punted my Agenda but unlike some others who are trolling the Internet everywhere you look I’m being honest about it
If you vote this, you’ll get that, really honest you will, believe us, We need another this, or….. “Jeez!! They’re as bad as the Newspapers
We will be free, the sooner the the people wake up the better we can be free. Lord Janner represents the tip of the iceberg of the unionist paedophile network, which will be defeated in May.
Vote Snp x Snp
Lads and Lassies all
PLEASE playback RT at 9.20 (about 1 hour ago) if you can?
BBC publicly mocked and the Daily Heil’s anti Scottish rants too
@ ArtyHetty at 7:42pm …..
You’re right ArtyHetty. High time we highlighted on here who has control over the Councils. Many people in Scotland seem to think that the SNP control ALL Councils. Control EVERYTHING in fact and are therefore to blame for everything that goes wrong. They have no idea that the SNP are caught between a rock and a hard place. Westminster dictating / repressing / robbing and most of the Unionist Councils manipulating at every turn to appease their Westminster master. How Nicola and John Swinney can cope with this I’ll never know especially when they also have to face the Unionist ignoramuses in Holyrood.
The presence of Fluffy as our overlord is the main reason why the SNP and the Greens should come to some sort of informal agreement.
I know the Greens are not an indy party per se, that is not their reason for existing, but what would have been better for them: Fluffy or Emma as the MP in that borders constituency?
Harvie should really be reaching out to Nicola to come to some agreement — not fight in areas like the Borders or Morningside, where a Green might split the non-unionist vote, in return for concessions in scotgov policy with regard to whatever is important to him.
By all means fight tooth and nail in other areas… But it should be recognised that half of Scotland is seething for independence and that is the main battlefield at the moment. Everything else is secondary.
Just think again: Fluffy would not have been elected if the SNP and Greens had come to an agreement in the Borders… and who would have been our overlord then? Annabell Goldie?!? Baroness Ruth of Postalballotshenanigans-by-the-Sea? Whatver, it would have shown how ridiculous the whole constitutional set-up is.
800 votes! My kingdom for 800 votes!
@ Petra,
Before the indyref Business for Scotland did a brilliant chart showing Scotland v rest of UK with all taxes etc. Without oil and gas Scotland and rest of UK were pretty equal around GDP per head.
But when oil and gas was added our GDP went up by c£2000 per head.
Tried to find it to print out before indyref but couldn’t. Might be worth contacting Gordon Macintyre-Kemp to see if he can publicise it more.
Cardigan Enright, we will have to put a statue of you in freedom square, you are are a national treasure of Scotland.,
O/T
@ joemcg at 8:18pm …
Time for us all to collectively condemn these people too. They’re dragging the whole ‘collective’ Independence movement into total disrepute. Besmirching my name … they don’t speak for me … your name. In the process of ruining our cause in fact along with the SCUM. SCUM plus scum. Photographed with Nicola Sturgeon? An SNP supporter? Aye right.
Nicola the only political leader in the UK happy and not frightened to wander around the country amongst her ain people, even in the so-called hard city, being photographed with everyone and anyone …. and then they drag her into the mire.
Did anyone see the Daily Politics today? They were discussing the EU referendum. Had a Tory on (Daniel Hannan) who said at around thirty minutes in..along the lines of..if we vote to come out that’s when they will start to take us seriously..if we vote to stay that’s it, ..if they won’t make serious concessions before the referendum, ‘imagine how they would treat us the day after we had voted to stay’…if Britain votes to leave they will sooo do a deal.
Really, I mean, really! Not a flicker of any sense of irony.
@Ian Brotherhood
I think SC’s main point is that if there was to be “tactical voting”, it would have to be looked at region by region, and very carefully.
@Lesley
“There’s a little bear
Like you’ve never seen before
Who’s a lot of fun
Children everywhere
Grow to love him more and more
He’s the number one
There’s a millionstories to be told
Of the things that he’s done!
And he’s going to share them all with you
So come along….
Oh, Rupert, Rupert the Bear
Everyone sing his name
Rupert, Rupert the Bear
Everyone come and join in all of his games”
ian
some people are going to vote tactically
the only people who can guide them in the specific regions are
rise,sg and solidarity by agreeing not to stand/stand amongst themselves
I don’t feel betrayed by rise,sg, etc, but others do,
Iain,
It every one votes SNP x 2 what’s the problem.
None at all – its the solution.
But politicians like Patrick Harvie of The Greens, and those from RISE, are more interested in advancing their parties and careers than they are in independence.
The unionists will make the most of them to reduce the SNP vote.
Also beware of those masquerading as SNP supporters and activists while trying to dupe folks into giving their list votes to the Greens or RISE.
SNP+SNP for independence.
@Mr indeterminate Cat
IF the SNP do as the polls say they will sweep or near sweep the constituencies then voting SNP on the list is pretty much a wasted vote in terms of electing anyone with it. d’Hont means your list vote gets divided by your constituency number +1. Do the maths. In any scenario in any region the number of votes required to elect an SNP MSP off the list is almost an order of magnitude greater than to elect anybody from any other party. This is a matter of hard mathematics.
So, if the Greens and RISE were to vacate the field and why the fuck should they?* then the only thing that will happen, other than spoiled list ballots is unionists getting elected. UKIP are not beyond possible.
ONLY by voting for another Yes party (who will need as many votes as SLAB/Tory/LD/UKIP. Remember that, if nobody else has a constituency they need the same proportion of the vote for that first list seat.
An SNP vote on the list will hand seats to the Unionists by default. Is that really what you want? Instead we can elect other Yes parties with 10% of the votes to elect an SNP person. Why would we not do that?
The best insurance for people inevitably falling out with the party of government is to offer them credible alternative places to go. We do that by electing people to the parliament. Not by asking them to hamstring themselves.
*This request demonstrates an extraordinary sense of entitlement. This is multi-party democracy. And besides since there is little point in the Greens or RISE standing people in the constituencies (RISE is not even trying) then you are asking them in effect not to stand at all. Are you a democrat? because you are not acting like one.
Re “tactical voting”.
To be as neutral as I can be about this, I think there are 3 priorities, and in order:
1). The SNP must have an absolute majority or Cameron will refuse a 2nd Referendum, even if it’s in the SNP manifesto, and even if there’s a pro-indy “Coalition”, all with Indy in their manifesto.
2). The SNP got 69 seats in 2011, the TNS poll showed them with 78, the Surcation one with 70. Well, 70 is 1 more than 2011, but I think the nasty media will still portray this as the “SNP faltering”, and that kicks Independence up the butt as well. For me, the minimum desirable for the SNP is 72.
3). I personally would like to see the Greens with 9-12 seats, and RISE with 6. But not at the expense of points 1 and 2 above. Only at the expense, and that’s ONLY, at the expense of Labour / Lib / Con.
I’m an SNP member, but vastly overriding that is Indy, and if the SNP even thought about giving up Indy, I’d give them up.
@ Lesley-Anne at 9:16pm
Hope it’s true. Great news. I would love to see liars Murdoch and Rebekah Brookes, the latter another rags to riches Mone, bite the dust.
Rock is talking sense again!
Rock @ 10.52
Completely agree with you. Harvie, the Greens and RISE are treacherous fellow travellers riding on the Independence wagon.
I wouldn’t vote for them in any scenario.
From the Independent, obviously pre indyref (2009 actually) on the 12 astronauts who have walked on the Moon.
“Their life expectancy and life patterns have not been so very different from any comparable group of well educated and highly trained white males, in outstanding physical condition – apart perhaps from the minor peculiarity that six of the 12 were of at least partial Scottish ancestry.”
Note that while back in the heady days when they still tended to be factually correct, they still commented that the Scottish connection was a ‘peculiarity’. They just cannot help themselves.
Oh and while I’m at it, it is not 20% of ‘the SNP’s support’ who are thinking of voting Green but rational, reasonable adult voters weighing up issues and voting depending on context. I am not your ‘support’ despite helping Stewart Hosie get his vote out back in May (a favour returned).
Yes, I voted SNP back in May, yes I defend them against calumnies online but I am not ‘support’, I’m a highly educated and qualified human being more than capable of voting differently depending on context for very, very good reasons. And being taken for granted really, really gets my back up.
I’m not even sure I’m going to vote SNP this May in the constituency. Shona Robison was one of those who killed Margot’s Assisted Dying Bill stone dead. RISE aren’t standing in the constituency, I will not vote unionist and I don’t know if the Greens are standing here in the constituency. I may for the first time in my life spoil a ballot paper. We are after all being urged to ‘send a message’. There is more than one way to do that and more than one person/organisation to send messages to.
Do you want to take the chance of unionists getting elected, vote SNP,SNP in May.
@Muscleguy
If the SNP poll 58% on the Constieuency they are predicted to get all constituency seats bar 2, one to Libs and one to Con. But they will get 7 list seats. That’s doing the maths – I’ve done it.
@Rock
Greens and RISE are trying to get elected, well, why not? However, Harvie at least seems to be doing it honestly, whereas some oethers are still coming up with that “vote SNP on the list is wasted” bollocks. However, RISE have Indy in their manifesto, and so do Green.
@cat
Yes, some people are going to vote tactically. I don’t think many will though, not enough to make a big swing to Green or RISE.
Generally – opinion polls are not reliable. A poll could show SNP 58% Constituency and 52% on the list even a few days before the election, but the actual poll could be vastly different. That’s why “tactical voting” is dangerous.
@schrodingers cat, Rock et al –
I am hearing ye’s loud and clear.
It’s not the ‘tactical voting’ that’s the problem.
It’s knowing what the fucking ‘tactic’ is.
Can we agree on that?
😉
@Kenny
“I know the Greens are not an indy party per se”
The Greens registered support for the Independence First campaign before the SNP.
Indeed the Greens went on to ratify that support as an official party stance whereas the SNP did not (only allowing those who supported it to say so.)
“Completely agree with you. Harvie, the Greens and RISE are treacherous fellow travellers riding on the Independence wagon.”
I see the 77th is out of barracks tonight. Split the vote, fuck Independence.
Don’t know much about tactical voting but found this so it may or may not help.
link to arcofprosperity.org
Splitting the vote is the objective of the 77th ,end off.
@Iain
You do not understand how d’Hont works. IF the SNP get say all 9 seats in one region their list votes will get divided by 9+1=10. This means the SNP will need 10X more votes for a list seat than ANYONE else, unionists and Green/RISE. So to avoid the unionists getting ALL the list seats in any region where the SNP are going to clean sweep or near clean sweep the seats going to the unionists then a significant % of SNP constituency voters need to vote Green/RISE on the list.
Doing anything else means the unionists win by default.
Forget sending Westminster a message, we did that back in May. Forget tickling the SNP’s ego, an election is about electing people to the parliament. Seats are up for grabs.
If your aim is to prevent unionists getting elected you have to vote Green or RISE on the list unless there are any independent Yes people doing a Margot. You can vote for them too. Think about it, run the figures in your region. Take the vote number last time and split it up by the polling assuming the SNP sweep the constituencies.
Muscleguy says 11:07pm
…a spoiled paper. That will Move forward Independence!
yesindyref2
@Ian Brotherhood
I think SC’s main point is that if there was to be “tactical voting”, it would have to be looked at region by region, and very carefully.
close indyref2, point I was making was that, as per the poll, 20% of snp voters intend to vote green. so tactical list voting is a reality
im not sure if it is possible to educate everyone who intends to vote tactically how to vote in their region.
easier if rise, sg and solidarity were to come to some agreement, on each region, especially if they all agree not to stand in south Scotland.
it might help indy supports, whose trust in rise, sg and solidarity has dropped, regain some of that trust
Don’t split your vote. Vote Snp,Snp in May.
If you want independence then there are things we NEAD to do. SNP SNP in MAY.
Once we get independence you can vote for whatever person, party turns you on. If we don’t stick together and get independence then we are all f****d and you can all pontificate and theorise while Westminster screw you. DONT COMPLICATE THE GAME! Don’t get too smart or we loose.
@Nana
Yes, it’s a fair analysis, from the playing around I did with my own predictive list spreadsheet / model.
Hopefully the Survation poll is a low one, an outlier even. It was commissioned for the Record!
@ indyref2 at 11pm ……… ”and if the SNP even thought about giving up Indy, I’d give them up.”
Heard it all now! It’s in the name. SNP. It’s what people like Alex and Nicola have given their lifes blood for. What they and millions of others are praying for, fighting for day in and day out. Maybe you should just give up now because NO ONE but the SNP will ever get us our Independence. Correct me if I’m wrong.
Totally agree with papadox, vote SNP,SNP in May.
@Muscelguy “This means the SNP will need 10X more votes for a list seat than ANYONE else, unionists and Green/RISE.”
Only for the first list seat. If Lab win that, their vote gets halved going on to the second. If they win that one, their vote gets divided by 3 for the next seat, and if they win that, it’s divided by 4 for the next.
If for example SNP get 50% on the list, and Labour 18%, that leaves SNP on nett 5%, and Labour on nett 4.5%, so the SNP beat them for the next seat, and the next as their nett is then 50 divided by 11 = 4.55%.
@Petra
Good grief, I’m going off to do some work, this forum has gone bananas.
I said IF – IF – IF – IF.
It’s incredibly unlikely they would. My point is that for me at least, if not for others, Independence is THE important thing, political parties are just that, political parties.
Jim Duthie,
“Completely agree with you. Harvie, the Greens and RISE are treacherous fellow travellers riding on the Independence wagon.
I wouldn’t vote for them in any scenario.”
There are many within us, posting here, whose aim is to dupe folks into giving their list vote to the Greens and RISE.
Patrick Harvie’s opportunism resulted in the Tory viceroy of Scotland getting re-elected.
Can you imagine how Cameron would have been mocked if he didn’t have this face saver?
Which independence supporter could ever forgive Patrick Harvie and the Greens?
Why take any risk at all at this stage?
Why reduce the overall SNP percentage vote?
60% or more SNP vote would send shivers down the British establishment.
Vote SNP+SNP.
Don’t get duped by the Greens or RISE through their supporters masquerading as SNP supporters and activists.
Can someone copy ‘muscle guy’ with the Revs electoral workings as I’m off to bed and Will be in trouble with the wife if I stop and try and find it for him
(Assuming he is genuine)
I had made the same mistaken assumptions myself before reading the numbers and reviewing the last Scottish election results
muscleguy
So, if the Greens and RISE were to vacate the field and why the fuck should they?* then the only thing that will happen, other than spoiled list ballots is unionists getting elected.
im not suggesting this muscleguy
Im only suggesting the sg, rise solidarity don’t stand in the region of the south of Scotland. for obvious reasons
I am well aware how the system works which is why I support snp1 sg2 in the fife and mid Scotland region.
it would also be helpful if the sg, rise and solidarity agreed not to stand anyone in the SOS region and also come to some agreement about not standing against each other in the other regions.
whether people agree with such tactical voting or not is irrelevant. it does happen and will happen in may
this poll shows a drop in snp across the 2 votes of 10% to the greens
those that do intend to vote tactically need to know who to vote for in which region, eg snp1 &2 in the SOS
Fred,
“Rock is talking sense again!”
When people come to their senses and recognise that The National is nothing more than a cash cow for The Herald, they will realise that I had been talking sense all along.
After upto or even more than 50 years, people finally realised that they had been duped by Labour all along.
Labour had been very good at pretending that it was pro people and anti Tories wasn’t it?
The National is pretending to be pro-independence.
When the Rev. Stuart Campbell’s articles are published as headline news in The National, I will be convinced that it is pro-independence.
@cat
According to Scot Goes Pop, this Survation poll shows a DROP in the green vote since the last Survation poll.
“Constituency ballot :
SNP 52% (-1)
Labour 21% (-1)
Conservatives 16% (+2)
Liberal Democrats 7% (+1)
Regional list ballot :
SNP 42% (n/c)
Labour 20% (-1)
Conservatives 16% (+3)
Greens 9% (-2)
Liberal Democrats 8% (+2)“
Why not read again the article Stu published in August last year “AMS for Lazy People” which explains the voting system in some detail. Might save a lot of misunderstanding.
link to wingsoverscotland.com
@ Muscleguy @ 11:19pm
Listening to you Muscleguy and really considering what you have to say. Can anyone else on here realistically quash his argument? It’s an issue that we’ll have to resolve sooner than later. Who says what now?
@yesindyref2
Just got in and reading your rubbish!
I’m sick of RISE. I’ve had it up to here with these little “labour” parties( cause that’s what they really are) trying to jump on the SNP bandwagon!
Fellow Wingers, just vote SNPx2 in May.
@Rock
Out of the 5 top articles in The National right now, 2 are by SNP members, Jeane Freeman and Gordon McIntyre Kemp.
@Petra
I did in my posting, but here’s the Rev:
link to wingsoverscotland.com
Ian Brotherhood
I am hearing ye’s loud and clear.
It’s not the ‘tactical voting’ that’s the problem.
It’s knowing what the fucking ‘tactic’ is.
Can we agree on that?
?
correct ian, since tactical voting will take place, we need clarity about who to vote for.
since it is the sg, rise and solidarity asking for tactical votes, it is only they who can create this clarity.
agreeing to not stand in the SoS might be a good “tactic” in recovering the good will that existed between us all during the yes campaign
I, like many others her, believe that indyref2 (take a bow dads) is a lot closer than many think and such good will is a must.
sorry if I insulted you ian, I was a bit “tetchy” in the last few exchanges.
@Flower of Scotland
Just going off to do some work and read your rubbish.
I’m voting SNP + SNP in May.
Rock should get a life and see the bigger picture. The National National supports Indy but is not Pravda and its front page is a goof antidote to the plethora of anti snp headlines on supermarket newsstands
Rock talking sense . Yes I agree, but it only lasted until 11.45.
Tactical voting…
WHO is gonna coordinate it, WHERE IT’S NEEDED?
Maybe a wee look at the illustrations at the link may convince peeps that you must vote for what you want.
link to imgur.com
As it’s now turned midnight on the 16th January, today is the 309th anniversary of the passing of the Act of Union in the Scottish Parliament. I was hoping that this year would be the last anniversary under a Westminster Government. Maybe we can celebrate it’s 315th anniversary under an Independent Parliament?
Stephen Roney.
indyref2
If for example SNP get 50% on the list, and Labour 18%…..
that is my point, we need data on individual regions
Why reduce the overall SNP percentage vote?
if the greens, rise and solidarity don’t stand in constituencies, the snp over all vote in the constituencies will rise.
Papadox
If you want independence then there are things we NEAD to do. SNP SNP in MAY.
you miss the point
many people will vote snp1&2, no doubt about it PD
the point being made is, from the latest poll, about a fifth of snp voters will vote green in the list. they need information regarding the regions they live in
eg, if you must vote tactically
Glasgow- snp1 rise2
mid scot and fife-snp1 greens2
and most importantly
if you live in the south of Scotland it must be
SNP1&2
Brian Doonthetoon
Tactical voting…
WHO is gonna coordinate it, WHERE IT’S NEEDED?
correct, almost impossible to do this
only solution is rise, sg and solidarity come to some agreement
eg
if they don’t stand in the south of Scotland region, people cant vote for them. indy supporters will only have the choice of snp1&2
simples
My Family and I will be voting SNP X 2 in May 2016.
Why, if you want and Independent Scotland, by voting SNP X 2 that’s what it will take to flatten Project Fear. This talk of giving away the 2nd vote makes no sense. It’s a bit like using using a claw, a cross pein, a ball pein and a toffee hammer to drive a stake into the ground not really a good idea. Better one big hammer, a sledge hammer or better still a Maul!
Keep focussed, keep strong, keep resolute, We the People of Scotland must protect the future for our children and grandchildren. Vote SNP X 2 in May 2016, get that big Maul out there and drive that stake in!
The whole purpose of the Establishments mercenaries EBC, MSM, 77 or whatever they brand themselves IS TO SPLIT THE INDEPENDENCE SUPPORTERS and protect HMQs power for the establishment to wield. Anybody who wants to split us for any reason or sow dissent neads a second look and a wide berth.
UNITED WE STAND!
@ Rock at 10:52pm … ”Also beware of those masquerading as SNP supporters or activists whilst tying to dupe folks … ”
Mmhh … Yeah we are Rock. And I can clearly see that you are right …. there is a number of such people regularly frequenting this site. Many wearing the kindly … mostly very knowledgable … even funny … sometimes numptylike ,.. mask. All with the same aim in mind. Mmhh.
But hey don’t worry too much. Most people on here aren’t as easily duped as you, and others, think we are.
Muscleguy
Oh and while I’m at it, it is not 20% of ‘the SNP’s support’ who are thinking of voting Green but rational, reasonable adult voters weighing up issues and voting depending on context.
agreed, many greens voted snp in may, no doubt about it
they voted snp for the same reason many snp republican members support the snp, ie, without indy there will be no republic.
I support tactical voting because the holyrood electoral system gives us a chance to remove a shit load of unionist msps
rise,greens and tommy Sheridan cant be worse than any of the harping unionist msps
@bugsbunny
Never knew that, an anniversary that I hope we won’t have to put up with much longer.
I can see the squabbling going on about tactical voting and I’m part of that squabble. One thing I would like to make clear is that Independence is my goal, party politics just a distraction.
I signed up to the SSP after the referendum rather than the SNP, I had a reason for that. It was that I believed that those still supporting Labour would be more open to listening to my arguments as an SSP member rather than SNP.
I also wanted to help them out financially by contributing through my membership fees. I think they have made a mistake with RISE and should have stood alone as the SSP. No matter, that’s done.
We all have the same goal only differing visions of the best way to achieve that. I’ll tell you mine, work hardest on persuading the 15% that didn’t vote, work to convince Labour supporters that only Independence will free them from Tory rule and most important of all, work at convincing those members of YOUR own family that voted No.
We all have them.
The polls have hardly moved but at least have moved in the rght direction since Sep 2014. So we keep working bit by bit, person by person.
With the entire UK media lined up against you it was never going to be easy was it? Knuckle down and prepare for the long haul.
Most of all you never give in.
Flower of Scotland
@yesindyref2
Just got in and reading your rubbish!
I have known indyref2 for many years, indeed he has consistently argued for an snp1&2 vote in may.
I’m sick of RISE. I’ve had it up to here with these little “labour” parties( cause that’s what they really are) trying to jump on the SNP bandwagon!
then I hope you like listening to wullie rennie and other labour parties cos that is what you will get in fife and mid Scotland if you don’t vote snp1 and greens2
Papadox
The whole purpose of the Establishments mercenaries EBC, MSM, 77 or whatever they brand themselves IS TO SPLIT THE INDEPENDENCE SUPPORTERS
so even tho’ the latest poll shows a fifth of those who intend to vote snp in the constituency intend to vote greens in the list
you don’t think it is a good idea to tell them not to vote green in the south of Scotland region????
do you really think a fifth columnist would do that?
perhaps a tad paranoid me thinks
It’s good to see that someone is monitoring the BBC and STV for bias. “Dr John Robertson plans to review BBC and STV television news coverage of the Scottish Parliamentary election campaign between now and polling day in May.” “First five days reveal ‘BBC bias’, says Robertson”
I’ll definitely be checking in to read his updates.
link to newsnet.scot
bugsbunny
As it’s now turned midnight on the 16th January, today is the 309th anniversary of the passing of the Act of Union in the Scottish Parliament.
devastating news Stephen. heart broken
SNP x 2 and I’ll take my chances.
When independent SNP x 2 (Unless the voting system is changed which I think it will be)
PS:
A strictly Scottish affair over the weekend.
Labour Saturday and SNP Sunday.
link to archive.is
@Schrodingers cat (11.56) –
Cheers.
We’re on the same flight – ’tis turbulent indeed – here’s to a safe landing.
🙂
@ Almannysbunnet at 12:50am ……. Dr John Robertson …. The Bigger the Lie … BBC Bias.
Many thanks for pointing this out. This is the type of action that may make the corrupt unionist media stop in their tracks in a way that we can’t. Let’s check into JR’s ongoing research data. Let’s post and show our support for him. In supporting him we are totally undermining media corruption.
More than anything I’m EXTREMELY pleased to see that he is focused on not only the BBC but STV now (John McKay lies from Glasgow). Brilliant. Many thanks to John Robertson. So many extremely intelligent Scots all working together to combat repression. Wha’s like us?
ian
you too mon ami
All SNP members will be voting SNPxSNP
That’s what it says on the emails and the literature from the party
Only folk with their own agenda will be saying differently
Funny how all these new and representative of the peoples parties are telling porkies before they even get a chance to be elected why not be honest and just ask folk for their vote instead of saying vote for me and you’ll get something else
Bella’s punting them, the Telly never stops about them, web pages keep popping up about them, I wonder why that is?
Something missing though from these new wonder parties and I can’t think of what it is, maybe it’s policies
I know what I do hear a lot though “I don’t agree with the SNP on that” except they answer that to almost everything they’re asked
And that sounds exactly like SNP “not good” (Pattern?)
There’s a danger of folk vanishing up their you know where with all this attempted confusion, why not try it the old way…Vote for what you believe is right for you and don’t worry about it, at least you’ll know you were honest to yourself and did what YOU thought was right and stuff the con artists
SNP+SNP worked last time to get a referendum.
I think they are at least as popular at the moment with Nicola in charge, so there is no good reason why SNP+SNP won’t work again.
I would like to see the Greens take seats of other parties but when it comes to a majority I would rather have an SNP majority of 1, than an SNP+Green majority of 10, because I don’t trust Patrick Harvie not to veto a second referendum or impose unreasonable conditions.
Caepllae @7.18pm
No its my fault, I keep forgetting sending irony costs double the postage. 🙂
________________________________________________________
joemcg
“Some loonball pictured with Nicola also wearing a yes T-shirt giving us a bad name,he’s all over social media on video taking a hammer to a pack of British teacakes! Dear oh dear.”
I take on the no no scale its up there with burning the Koran then? maybe he likes his teacakes squashed?
_________________________________________________________
Petra
”
Petra says:
15 January, 2016 at 10:06 pm
@ jdman at 7:05pm ….. STV propaganda techniques ……. practically on a par with the BBC now.
You’ve outlined some great examples jd. Time for us all to complain, complain, complain to STV. ”
Thanks for the thumbs up Petra
as it happens I turned over to the BBC @ 6.30 to see howe they managed to spin the story, and guess what, not one mention of a coalition,just “Edinburgh council” maybe they thought using “coalition” would have just been a little TOO obvious, are you listening David Cowan?
_____________________________________________________
Anybody else noticed that when Meindevon comes on here to comment the sun seems to shine just a little brighter? 🙂
Dr Robertson makes great points but like other commentators he is biased. He should comment not on the Oil price but on the tax/take. The reason for the slump and so many job losses is not the price but the tax/take by the Treasury. It is not what MSM says but what they don’t say with the totally biased reporting. Dr Robertson is a bit Green.
The Oil production faltered, was halted in 2010, when the coalition first came in (6years sgo). They increased the Oil tax 11% (£2Billion) – 80% . The Oil producers stopped drilling more oil holes. The oil holes bored was reduced. The Oil tax was 80%. Oil prices have reduced from $120 a barrel to $30 a barrel. A fall of 3/4. The tax should have come down 3/4 to 20%. The tax/take has come down to 60%. I.e. fallen 1/4. In January 2016, it has only decreased 15%. That is why so many people are losing their jobs. The tax should reflect the price. Osbourne is an incompetent, inexperience liar. More Oil & Gas has to be imported Puting up the balance of payment deficit and the debt.
The Tories have stopped coal production, refused permission for CCS. They have banned wind turbines in England. They are building a Nuclear Station by the sea, with borrowed Chinese money – £25Billion. It will be massively over time and over budget. The money could be better spent on renewables eg tidal barrages. A Humber tidal barrage project was cancelled as too expensive £9Billion. It would have produced more cheaper,safer energy.
The Tories are determined to ruin the Scottish economy, for spite. Just like Thatcher did. To try and stop Independence. £10Billion+ is already going from the Scottish economy for Trident/illegal wars, banking fraud and tax evasion through the City of London. It could be better spent to grow the Scottish economy. HMRC is not fit for purpose and often holds business back. The Tories are sanctioning and starving vulnerable people. Worried, cold, hungry, stressed people, don’t sleep and get sick. Countries/societies that are more equal are more cohesive, healthier and happier.
Severly autistic pupils should retain their own schools with their additional facilities and increased one to one staff. All teachers should receive ‘additional needs’ training. It would help them do their job. A module should be included in all teacher training facilities. Computers are a great teaching aid. Some pupils will struggle to pass exams but are brilliant at Maths etc. Or have a special interest that can be developed, into occupation by incorporating simple guidelines. Additional needs people make good employees, considering their capabilities. They like routine and timetables. They should be given the same opportunities. Everything invented in the world was by a person on the spectrum. They have shaped the world.
Scotland could lead the way on education. ‘Scotland the Land of Invention’. TV, telecommunications. – Internet. Scootland has led the world in engineering, medical science and finance. The ‘Enlightenment’ 1750 shaped the world. Scotland was the first country to have free tertiary (church) education.
Independence will revitalise Scotland. It just needs 5% more.
O/T links
link to lallandspeatworrier.blogspot.co.uk
link to publicsectorexecutive.com
Scottish Parliament elections: Labour braces itself for electoral humiliation at hands of SNP
link to archive.is
link to globalresearch.ca
O/T links
link to news.stv.tv
Bank levy watered down after firms paying no UK tax put pressure on chancellor
link to archive.is
link to iicsa.org.uk
link to lbc.co.uk
May 2917, there will not be many coalition Councils. They will all be SNP majority, like Holyrood. Interedting to see the Unionist/politicians complaining about BBC bias and funding issues. They voted No. Topical or typical, there is a repeat of ‘Shetland’. So good they repeated it twice orvwas it three times. Worth it for the scenery. The reports of fishing on the Tay were spectacular for the scenery if nothing else.
Mr Salmond doing well on LCB, causing a sensation. Getting the message out of what the SNP in Scotland are about. Gaining friends and good publicity. Countering bias and getting a good reaction. Consummate politician. Blowing his own trumpet and Trump out of the water with his irrational wind turbine contraduction. Trump’s wasted Appeal court monies could have financed a few wind turbines. Far out of vision, with good interest returns and free publicity. Clinton the abuser with the abuser at home. It takes a loudmouth to call another loudmouth out. Dangerous people. That’s US politics. That’s entertainment and ignorance of the world. The ‘globes’ celebration.
Glasgow the home of ballroom dancing. Could ‘Strictly’ not visit. They come out of the closet and go to Blsckpool. Mr Mundell could make a great celebrity contestant. A sensation. Ruthie could join in as well. The Royals should slim down, shut up or bow out. They would make great contestants as well, just like the Games. Pass a doubly. A £Million for evety twirl. Another £5Million increase on the £40Million a year. Overall costs £400Million. In the times of austerity and BBC cutbacks. £2Billion budget of repeats. Same old hags, farts and biased pedophile enablers.
@cat
I’m against tactical voting because of the danger of not getting an overall SNP majority, and the inaccuracy of polls.
BUT
If it is done, then what you say about considering each individual region is definitely the only way to do it, probably based on campaigner “polling” near the day.
It’s a shame, I think Greens and SSP have a call on SNP out of gratitude for them lending their votes on an individual basis to the SNP for the General Election, and hopefully for Holyrood for the Constituency vote. But RISE have hacked a lot of people off by trying the “list voted for SNP is wasted”, rather than a straight and perhaps conscience-tugging plea “please return the favour and give us your list vote”.
I quite like Cat Boyd from the Indyref but don’t like RISE because it does do the SNP Bad thing as well, and like others, wonder why the SSP gave up its own high Indyref profile to submerge it in RISE.
wonder why the SSP gave up its own high Indyref profile to submerge it in RISE.
I think it was to merge with ric
RISE has forfeited all the respect it had from me and many others by its behaviour. It should seek election by the promotion of its policies not by attacks on erstwhile friends.
I’m not at all concerned about the situation come may, as we have yet to start the campaign in ernest.The SNP has 116000 members to call on what do the rest have aside from the Brit Press and the BBC.We have managed to hold back the tide of shit and disinformation and retain a comfortable lead in the polls and we hav’nt started our campaign.Our ability to put so many “boots on the ground”will be worth a few percentage points advantage to the SNP.
I think Rock’s lucid moments could be lunar-related mebbes but the ability to know a papers contents without spending 60p (miserable bastard!) is truly remarkable.
Anent Rise taking a Rise, if these people want into Holyrood they should join a party which can facilitate this & argue to change whatever policies they don’t like, the use of a very undemocratic strategem, (the List) to advance their prospects is a con. Their problem is that they are’re unelectable & incapable of finding common-cause with anybody for more than five minutes. Half-wit responses like spoiling ballot papers are entirely o be expected. It’s me,me,me,me & toys oot the pram when they’re fund oot!
@Clootie
Right, so I should vote for someone who did something terrible even though independence is not up for grabs?
Isn’t that the sort of argument that SLAB used to use to get red rosette wearing monkeys elected? Think about where you are going, please.
As an SNP member since the REF. I am also a supporter of RIC. If we were independent, I would probably not vote SNP and seek out a more left wing party, if it existed. At the moment we are not independent, therefore I will continue to support and vote 2 x SNP , which represents the united Scottish resistance to the Union.
But I will not support either the Greens or RISE in any shape or form while they continue to undermine and attempt to split the Scottish resistance posed by the SNP. Anyone who can’t see the threat to our struggle by these groups in standing against the SNP in the impending election is being both foolish and selfish.
I want a lot of things to change in Scotland that the SNP would be at best lukewarm towards e.g. full land reform, exit from NATO, welfare reform, real living wage and a ceiling on upper earnings etc. but it can all wait until we extinguish perfidious Albion’s vice like grip on our collective necks.
Anything else at this time is intellectual masturbation.
Rev Stu,
Here are some more numbers needing crunched, please note some figures are estimates especially UK data as the have hid the trees in the forest.
Populations (in millions) 1965 to 2015.
Australia 11.39 increased to 23.97
Canada 19.68 increased to 35.75
New Zealand 2.63 increased to 4.53
England 44.61 increased to 53.90
Scotland 5.23 increased to 5.35
Wales 2.68 increased to 3.10
Northern Ireland 1.45 increased to 1.80
Republic of Ireland 2.88 increased to 4.58
So we are better together, I think not! Going by the population stats. Personally, my take on it, was the lack of investment in Scotland since the fifties and the systematic stripping of it’s production and heavy industries at the same time plus relocating industries either south or overseas.
To grow Scotland must be able to steer it’s own course, with investment no more subsidizing England, increase the population by offering hope to our young people who at present are leaving. With a modern efficient Scotland we will be able attract the best and the brightest in.
I knew the population stats would be bad but I was shocked!
To stop the rot that’s been forced on Scotland, it’s now time to Vote for your Country, Vote for it’s Independence. That means Voting SNP X 2.
Rev Stu,
Here are some more numbers needing crunched, please note some figures are estimates especially UK data as they have hid the trees in the forest.
Populations (in millions) 1965 to 2015.
Australia 11.39 increased to 23.97
Canada 19.68 increased to 35.75
New Zealand 2.63 increased to 4.53
England 44.61 increased to 53.90
Scotland 5.23 increased to 5.35
Wales 2.68 increased to 3.10
Northern Ireland 1.45 increased to 1.80
Republic of Ireland 2.88 increased to 4.58
So we are better together, I think not! Going by the population stats. Personally, my take on it, was the lack of investment in Scotland since the fifties and the systematic stripping of it’s production and heavy industries at the same time plus relocating industries either south or overseas.
To grow Scotland must be able to steer it’s own course, with investment no more subsidizing England, increase the population by offering hope to our young people who at present are leaving. With a modern efficient Scotland we will be able attract the best and the brightest in.
I knew the population stats would be bad but I was shocked!
To stop the rot that’s been forced on Scotland, it’s now time to Vote for your Country, Vote for it’s Independence. That means Voting SNP X 2.