Wings Over Scotland

No, however hard I try he does not look like Edith Piaf.

I think the point is Valerie that we have absolutely no idea what Andy Murray said, if anything. Our media just make things up. Who knows. We need real media for grown ups.

As Mark Tain might have said ….

“There are lies, damned lies and the UK media.”

The boys PR team have been at him again, that would be the same PR team that told him to stop wearing saltire wristbands! Allegedly!!

Did he say he regret tweeting, or did he just says he has no regrets? Was the first part what the MSM think about it?

Nice to see a Scot unafraid to give his view.

As a businessman and employer also nice to see he was not going to up and leave, abandoning people for profit like so many if the decision was Yes.

Mr Murray , I salute you ( I thought your timing was a perfect start to the day)

He’s not thick. He’s just singleminded and only educated in one aspect of life. He’s also a slave to his media advisors.

We, in our generally private lives, have no idea of the media pressure which Andy Murray has to put up with. Remember the London media hatred which descended on him when he joked he supported “anyone but England”.
His heart is in the right place and he invests in Scotland. He is just trying to make his way in the one of the toughest arenas and he doesn’t need the hassle.

I should record that I’m a huge Andy Murray fan. I just have to remind myself occasionally that he’s a tennis player, not a political commentator.

Andy Murray has said he does not “regret giving an opinion” but is disappointed with the way he tweeted his support for Scottish independence.

The tennis star was abused on Twitter for his tweet, which he sent just hours before the polls opened on Thursday.

He said the UK was going to be stronger as a result of the referendum and he looked forward to competing for Great Britain for the rest of his career.

Murray said everyone should be allowed an opinion but he wanted to “move on”.
Sounds fair enough to me. Next?

It’s nice, isn’t it? Rowling gets pelters on Twitter and Alex Salmond is meant to apologise. Murray gets dog’s abuse on Twitter and HE has to apologise? What now?

Who annoyed me more than most, was ‘our’ very own posh-boy rugger twats. After all, this indy lark was a dreadful risk for our country, what, (the UK) especially their share values, Mummy’s, 2nd home, Primula’s private school fees next term & Morningside house prices. The Scotland Rugby team, bless their avaricious, middle-class little hearts. Smashing people like the Hastings boys terribly worried about the country. Their tory arses! I for one will never go to another rugby match to support middle class tartan tories of their phoney ilk. They surely must change their team name to North Britain. And don’t wear blue, drape yourselves in a union jack. I will positively choke with anger watching these smug, elitist bastards singing with false gusto Flower of Scotland to the derision of all. Boycott all their over-priced and in their case mediocre ‘rugger’ games. What a complete embarrassment they are to themselves. England is going to have a field day with their phoney patriotism. ‘When will we see your like again?’, indeed, Gavin Hastings et al. Patriots up to a point, but the private schools and share dividends come first, don’t you know, old chap. Foodbanks? Stuff & nonsense old boy!Scotland Rugby Union needs a new anthem, ‘Send In the Clowns’ sounds about right.

Was listening to radio 5 covering Andy`s game at the US open and
they actually brought up the referendum, and the american commentator was going on about Scotland staying in the union, WTF.
Turned it off before I was sick.

They resent him would you believe for winning Wimbledon, they prefer the union jack waving hysteria of loser tim henman.

Going against the establishment is all this is about. Andy is an ok guy. I dont particularly like his tennis but respect his skills and his right to an opinion.

He is a Scot in a sport that craves British success within the UK. Therefore asserting any Scottishness will be, and has been, vilified. Or ‘Monstered’ as they now say.

So good on ye Andy. Keep onwards and upwards.

Posted just now by the Sunday Herald:-

“Huge thanks to everyone who helped push our circulation last week to a tad under 50k … That’s an amazing 111% up on the same week last year. We can’t believe it!”

@Cuilean

Exactly. Hastings, Calder, Sole and their likes want Scotland to remain a region. Nations govern themselves. In their eyes Scotland is not a nation. That is the only conclusion to make for their support for the No campaign. Well that an they are diehard Tories, and former public schoolboys.

Whatever he said, he was always going to be criticised by one side or the other. He couldn’t win but he still came out for Yes and we have to thank him for that.

This is a prime example of why celebrities/sports personalities, businesses etc were reluctant to put their heads above the parapet.

What a sorry world we live in when MSM /politicians lie through their teeth & we can’t trust a word they say anymore. Their deceit knows no bounds.

I’m sorry to say that I’m in England & that I am ashamed & disgusted by the actions of the Westminster elite. They don’t represent me. I was rooting for Scotland to win the referendum. It will happen.

Make it happen Scotland. PLEASE

Ha ha BTP – I’ve read your comments on DB and always thought for a panda what an exotic life you seem to lead.

Nous sommes tous différent

Muttley, the transcript of the interview exists. Indeed the audio recording was posted online. I think the transcript resorted to claiming that Darling’s words were inaudible at the point where he explicitly agreed to the description. He certainly acceded to it without challenge or contradition though.

As far as I can tell Andy and Jamie tweeted support for a Yes vote and were disappointed at some of the reaction to the tweet….given the nature of some of the reaction it isn’t hard to see why they were disappointed.

However, the bottom line is they supported Yes.

What Stu has highlighted is the fact that the media is an appalling source for information. It is not possible to believe any one outlet and you have to check and cross check everything to get your bearings on a story. We have seen first hand just how duplicitous the media can be.

@Muttley79, This may help to clarify the issue re Darling’s mumbling…

link to wingsoverscotland.com

muttley
Worth arguing with or waste of time?
i have been wondering about cif too lately
I like adversarial nature of the guardian, although wrt to scotland, it has become a daily mail play ground

are we who post there wasting our time?

also, facebook is swimming with yes but very few no posts, were we responsable for mobilising the no vote as well?

in the run up to the GE, should we
1. be more selective about our posts
2. create a level of privacy between activists friednd and the general public?

How do we mobilise the yes support while at the same time allowing the no’s to go back to sleep?

He may regret having tweeted in haste but i’m proud of him for nailing his colours to the mast. He didn’t have to do that. I think the emotion of the day and his obvious support for independence was so overwhelming he couldn’t help himself.

Media will spin it whatever way comes up their humph.

Poor guy is going to get pelters next summer.

Many smiley faces thinking an independence supporting Scot won their precious tennis tournament though. They won’t like that up them.

@schrodingers cat

I think we are wasting our time with the Guardian. Its sales in Scotland are terrible, and it is so against Scottish independence that I don’t think we are doing any good engaging in debate with Brit nats there. The comments pages are now very anti Scottish. The hostility is very high against independence.

link to youtube.com bbc claims that murray said uk was now stronger as a result of the vote.

John Young
Absolutly agree with your comments about the puerile nature of the Yes newspaper.
The obsession with minor celebrities and sportspeople was underwhelming. Before the last edition I emailed the Yes office saying they had to tackle the lies, and specifically the pension and currency scares from Gordon Brown. The last edition turned out to be even more dire, with bland headlines and the same dull content as previous editions.
I did deliver them, but felt I was wasting my time. It could have been uplifting and exciting and should have employed some of the great journalists like Derek Bateman. They had plenty of money.

Andy Murray tweets = sponsorship.

Now we’ve cleared that pish up,how about carrying the YES vote forward?

I remember reading Andy’s tweet in the early hours of the morning on the day of the referendum, I woke up my girlfriend to tell her thinking it was just one more sign that we were gonna win this, just brings it all back.

@Muttley79

Actually, in the eyes of Hastings, Calder, Sole et al., I think they DO believe Scotland is a nation. And they are not alone. They just don’t think it incompatible with being part of the ‘multi-nation UK’. Now to you & I that concept is horseshit : how can any nation fully & meaningfully govern itself & make use of its wealth for the greatest number of its citizens, when it gets the government it elects only about 45% of the time. But that’s one of the challenges we face, addressing what BT reduced to ‘you can be Scottish & British’ with the associated ‘best of both worlds’.

My gut feeling is that most Tory voters fit into the above mindset & it would be extremely difficult in any future referendum to persuade them differently. Labour & centrist voters are more fertile territory, but even with them the same mindset applies to a large number. The economic benefits of independence for them needs to be rammed home much more forcefully. I managed to persuade 4 No’s/DK’s into Yes in weeks leading up to the vote. My greatest challenge were another 3 definite No’s, all Labour voters. I did the gentle persuasion (knowing that the hard sell wouldn’t work), directed them to online sources, printed out copies of the WBB for them. They went from definite No’s to DK in the few days before the 18th. Unfortunately when it came to marking that cross (I know this because they all said the same thing afterwards) they hovered above the ballot paper. But in the end they couldn’t bring themselves to vote Yes. Mainly economic reasons, risk etc. although 2 of them also said (get this) that the calibre of Scottish politicians was so low that they’d rather have 26 millionaires in a WM Tory cabinet govern them than an independent Scottish govt. It really took all my self-control not to react to such supine disdain for your fellow citizens. Just shows you though what 300 years of the cringe & inferiority complex can do.

@schrodingers cat – I think we are all kind of hanging about not quite sure what to do, but we want to do something.

I think we’ve probably all been as high and low as it is possible to get, outwith personal tragedy.

I know what I don’t want to do and that is to engage with any MSM.

Andy Murray is a good person (so is his brother Jamie) and it is telling that he was disappointed in the no negativity from what he could see as someone living OUTSIDE the country. He could clearly see the ridiculous bias and it was good of him to speak out. I think it was his conscience speaking.

I think Andy has covered himself in honours and the Scottish rugby team have covered themselves in disgrace. Why on earth have a separate national team anyway, if they just want our country to be an impoverished shire of England? I would hope they adopt “God Save the Queen” as their anthem and the St George’s cross as their flag, seeing they think their home nation should not be, um, a nation.

Andy’s brother Jamie was the more talented player, but his game was ruined by the dipsticks of the LTA when he went down to England to train. Their mother decided they were not going to make the same mistake again… and sent the younger brother Andy to Spain to train.

The way Andy has stirred up the BBC and the Telegraph is a badge of honour! It is like people who are hated by the Daily Mail: it is a badge to be worn with great PRIDE!

I like him.

If you hear the interview he says that he has no regrets about voicing his support for what he believed, but he could have done it better (I bet deep down he’s thinking, EARLIER, haha)

He will get shite about this no doubt at all when down at Wimbledon. So we should back him.

He played his hand and supported us even if it was at the 11th hour.

He deserves praise not criticism.

BBC ran with ”Murray regrets Indyref tweet” which again shows the bias in our media.

Yet, we’ve not heard them asking Hastings, Beckham, Geldoff and all those who backed No if they regret back them?

55%, no I’ll say 25% of us, the other 30% may have a brain, but thy want to be British – the 25% who may want devo max/indy, but shat it are ZIPPED UP THE BACK.

@Democracy Reborn

Aye, maybe you are right and they do think Scotland is a nation. We do need to understand why they and the 55 per cent voted No. If we do not, then we have not got a chance of achieving independence.

So he didn’t recant, and he has no regrets about his tweet. That’s a shame, I was going to do a Coleman: “New balls please”. Now I can’t. Oh, wait …

No surprises his comments are getting misreported.

For what it’s worth, I reckon he doesn’t see any incompatibility between an independent Scotland and Britain.

You can support both.
Plenty of people think it would be better all round – a new partnership of equals.

The whole idea is only controversial to those who see things in black and white.

I don’t think it will make any difference to his career. He will always have the same detractors – the nasty element of English racists who will never forgive him for that football joke made years ago.

He is probably pretty pleased that it will forever stick in their throats when he won Wimbledon 🙂

I honestly think Indyref 2 will be eminently winnable simply because, in the hours/days/weeks/months/years prior to Indyref 1, we reached such a saturation point with the maniacal lies of the media that it can no longer hold.

The weight of lies is dripping out of the bottom of their big wet package, so to speak, and those people who have been less engrossed, less involved are starting to see it.

This is in a large part because we, the YESSERS, are letting people know about it. And it really is up to us to spread this message far and wide, that they CANNOT trust the media, and explain why.

But I think people will put two and two together themselves. They will see stories, like today’s, about big Oil bonanza’s and will recall how our beloved media painted pictures of the Oil Industry as an Apocalypse waiting to happen.

There simply wasn’t enough time for a broad awareness of the media’s failings to spread prior to Indyref 1. But for Indyref 2, the ethically vile and treacherous role of the media will be a commonly known thing, much more so than it is now.

I’m convinced of it.

I just spent the evening listening to Will McLeod’s last broadcast on Netroots Radio and it is a timely reminder in the aftermath of events…

link to netrootsradio.blogspot.co.uk

This isn’t about Andy Murray or even the elitist Tennis fraternity… it is about a disgusting, biased, out of control media.

Phone hacking… institutional paedophilia in the BBC… corruption… cover-up’s…

They are even now propagating their lies to go to war again this evening… but be safe in the knowledge that once your eyes are open, they stay open.

Fast forward to next Wimbledon finals & a Scotsman wins it, ah revenge served with Scottish Strawberry’s n Cornish Cream.pimms anyone.

schrodingers cat and mutley
I think the circulation in Scotland is less than 10,000 could be wrong, and what I saw in my travels around Scotland is that it was bought a lot by tourists or holiday homers from down south, so probably more like 5,000 to natives. That’s when I stopped bothering (dadsarmy) and focussed on the Herald.

No idea if it was worth it though. Perhaps for Cif it helped Kevin McKenna come out for YES, and the Herald, well,the Sunday Herald and Ian McW, who knows. Maybe even helped to keep the Herald more neutral, and the Guardian to have some surprisingly good articles at times.

Pass! Next time I’ll not bother with the Herald, except maybe the very odd posting, probably on a Sunday.

Well looking back to the commnwealth games, did we boo the english squad? Hell no. So i don’t expect Andy will get adverse feelings??( hoping but don’t expect)

I saw Murray commenting on this in a TV interview. He said “I have no regrets”. Pretty clear cut, although I think the confusion has come because he seems to have suggested he could have come out in a different way or worded his tweet better. If you look at his brother Jamie’s tweets in the days before the referendum, it’s not hard to imagine that Andy is now wishing he had taken a leaf out of his big brother’s book.
Incidentally, Scotland’s 3rd GB Davis Cup player, the doubles specialist Colin Fleming, also came out in support of Yes, making it 3 out of 3 for the Yes camp when it came to Scotland’s top tennis players. These guys put the rugger and fitba boys to shame, despite the fact they all (unlike in football and rugby) have no choice but to represent GB when playing at international level. They all stuck their necks out when they didn’t have to and as a result will undoubtedly face a lot of grief from both the LTA and the British tennis supporting public. I for one feel very proud of the three of them.

Cynical lowlander said “I seem to be completely immune to sport”

Snap! Don’t get it either, especially of the ‘team’ variety. Just about see the sense of individual tests of speed, endurance etc – but it just doesn’t mean much to me. Most animals are physically superior – our advantages as a species were always intelligence coupled with the ability to cooperate it seems to me.

As to the media, I gave up on the printed press over ten years ago (bought The Daily Mail at that time – but only for the crossword/soduku during breaks honest guv!), and tv “news” around the same time – only watched it during the last two years to get a sense of what the opposition were up to.

Back to happily ignoring both. Like some others here I’ve voted SNP for a long time, thirty five years or so, and I’m pretty sure we’ll see another referendum, hopefully in my lifetime.

Indy/SNP remain in the cross-hairs of the BBC Death Star.

Disarming the BBC’s hitmen McQuarrie & Boothman would seem to be a top priority if we are to see any big success in the General Election.

But how is a very big question.

But we do need an answer.

Perhaps John McTernan is free just now.

smithie

You realise you’re post stinks to high doh of “troll shit”.

Alan Mackintosh
old women was in pitlessie, icould find the cottage numebre but she is too frail, i could get others who were there to corroborate my story though, im not making it up,

hi dadsarmy, wonder where you had got to 🙂

@ muttley79

I had a spat of CiF at the time of Darling’s blood and soil inaudibility, with a poster called dyewitness, who just told me I was making it up. No point in further engagement with such people.

Craig
google – oil north sea water desalination plant – Sep 2012:

“Global energy giants BP has revealed new technology that will significantly boost the amount of oil it can extract from wells.

A scheme involving injecting desalinated water into oil wells will be used in the Claire Ridge development West of Shetland.”

schrodingers cat
I got to be post-moderated in the Herald about Dec 12 posting on something nothing to do with indy, and from then was doomed doomed doomed to keep posting there, as very few indy supporters were 😉

goldenayr says:

smithie

You realise you’re post stinks to high doh of “troll shit”.
OK i bow down to your superior knowledge bud (Not)I’m chilled YOUR prob Bud

crazycat

Give it up with the pseuedo intellectual pish from the guardian comment section.

Grow up and realise they’re paid for trolls as realised by the Scotsman auditors

I think Sturgeon on Scotland Tonight shows the way to go for the GE 2015. She says that though Independence is still her reason for being, they will focus on making the most of Devolution and getting all the powers promised by the 3 parties and their leader – basically Devo-Max.

The thing is that if the other 3 parties all backslide, unless the Scottish branches of them decide to go their own way, then the only party pushing for more powers is the SNP and the rest of Scotland Alliance too.

45% wanted Indy, and from Ashcroft, 14% (25% x 55% NO) the more powers promised, and then there’s that big 25% (47% x 55% NO) who were worried about Indy Scotland but very possibly would have liked it if reassured.

That’s potentially up to 84% that could vote for an All Scotland party and be prepared to ditch the other 3. All that has to be done, if this is the “approved” way, is to push that more powers must be delivered – or else bye bye farenotsowell to 53 Unionist MPs not doing their job pushing for the more powers to be delivered.

yesindyref2

One thing.

I am not SNP.

Nor am I any political party.

And if you keep trying to tie me down then wait for the repercussions evangelist.

@james dow a voice from the diaspora

Cancer of the eye!
Really?
Are you Mad,Bad or just Dangerous to know?
You are posting to CANCER CENTRAL IN EUROPE
Not clever!

Goldenayr, i feel for you

smithie

@goldenayr
Eh? I never said you were SNP – are you confusing me with someone else? Well, you are!

To all those who are disaffected by the ref.

Joining a party will not salve your wounds.

Get your local campaigners together and discuss the next course of action.

Cooperation not Subjugation.

A great many are joining the pro indy parties tho’, and that can only be a good thing. They perhaps want to feel under an umbrella now and getting organised, so its a good thing, as I do believe we have to keep this level of commitment going. The local groups may well have just packed up. Also just read that Nicola Sturgeon would not rule out a 2nd referendum and would get all pro indy parties to agree a pledge, which is what many of us have discussed, so we are not that wide of the mark!!!

Smithie

Noticed you never said which side you were on.

Alex Clark

Betty Boop

@ Tartan Tory, 11:43pm, 24/09/14

As for the point of this piece, any ‘Alert Reader’ who doesn’t know the MSM are more interested in creating news instead of reporting it, isn’t too alert after all.

I think perhaps the article is for the benefit of newer readers rather than we sceptical/never believe anything in print until we have analysed it to the nth degree old Wingers. 🙂

O/T Looking over the comments on the previous post and this one, it strikes me that some folks are getting a bit overheated. A wee bit of goodwill and tolerance would not go amiss – we have enough of a challenge ahead without sniping at each other. Chill.

Hi Alex Clark,

I suspect you will all be doing the same. You noticed some of us never seem to sleep at night ! 🙂

Betty Boop

Tell that tae Wullie.

No seen him in years.

Diaspora person

TATTIE BYE
I am off to live long and prosper

And will not respond to you again

GET IT

GOT IT

GOOD

Liz M saw you’re comment night hun catch up tomorrow x

Removing don’t knows, that’s support for what is basically Independence + Devo-Max risen from 68% in September 2013 to 80% on 16th September 2014, two days before the referendum. Can’t see if the poll is Scotland only, or across the UK.

Taking July at 71%, Aug 75%, Sep 80%, what next? Oct 85%, Nov 90%?

I can’t work this out at all, strategy, tactics, brain hurts, overload, sleep, sleep, Brown hath murdered sleep.

@Donald
well spotted! What is the implication for the validity of the result? Any lawyers out there?
I also thought the announcements on new powers during the purdah period were a breach of the Edinburgh Agreement which invalidates the result.

A.N.Surgent

“loser Henman”

Can’t believe I feel the need to defend Henman on Wings with the same argument I used to defend Andy. Henman was in the top ten in the world of his chosen profession and won millions of quid in prize money. A right loser! How many of us are in the top ten in the world at what we do? Not very many.

Fair play to Andy for the tweet. His PR folk would have been advising that he said nothing but he felt he had to say something despite the crap he knew would follow.

Goldenayr, you will need to be more specific?

Why am I in pre-mod?

Craig says:
24 September, 2014 at 11:31 pm
O/t , that supposed technological breakthrough confirmed today to increase oil production is still a lie. It is already happening around the world and BP are already way down the road with it.

link to offshore-technology.com

O/T there is a bill board outside Aberdeen airport about BP using the technology to extend the life of mature fields its been there about 2 years now and i am sure Ian Wood mentioned it in his report to WM

AS afully-engaged member of the Scottish rugby community, can I ask some of the posters on here to, lay-off.

As far as I can discerne, NO current professional Scottish rugby player – the guys from whom our national XV will be selected, came out as either a Yes or No voter prior to the referendum.

Several former Scotland internationalists – the Hastings brothers, David Sole, Fin Calder etc – came out, very prominently, as No voters.

However, their efforts to use BT Murrayfield were thwarted by the SRU. Their photo-call and press conference had to be held outside BT MNurrayfield, in the streets of Roseburn, because the SRU would not allow them inside to associate the Union with their campaign.

These guys were mainly public school-educated, middle-class businessmen in their fifties: by definition, natural Tory and No voters. Their ability to garner newspaper interest in their stance owed everything to sporting deeds over 25-years ago.

They did NOT in this instance represent the SRU and those on here who are somehow maligning Scottish rugby today should shut-up.

I have no doubts some of the public school-educated Scottish players of today voted No, I also know some of them voted Yes, it’s a personal thing.

I accept, over the whole Scottish rugby community, given its demographic, there would be a No majority – I know my own proud wearing of Yes badges got me a fair amount of gentle slagging in various clubhouses.

However, a small number of Scottish football “personalities”, like the rugger buggers, guys whose greatest days were two or three decades behind them, also came out for No.

They didn’t have the excuse (if it is an excuse) of having had a public school-middle-class upbringing. Most of them escaped from the Yes heartlands of housing schemes, food banks and benefits to the rarefied “heights” of the noveau riche developments of the Glasgow commuter belt. But, they didn’t get anything like the slagging-off the rugby guys got.

I think it was patently obvious even to a halfwit like me , that Andy Murray was a Scot supporting Scotland.

Why the media think it’s OK to defend some other millionaire Scots who supported NO with exaggerated claims of folk being nasty to them is the major stumbling block for me.

But then I was always for level paying fields and fairness -Seems the height of naïvety now.

Cameron, Brown, Clegg and their bankers are going to continue to waste £Billions of public money. They are going to be neutered.

ps
Before anyone leaps on me I count myself among the not so intellegent. 😉

Maj is finished

John King

So yo left Sunny Govaan and sailed to Paris.

Are you inseine?

Ken500
“Maj is finished”

My thoughts as well.

Libby is toast.

Cameron should be locked up in the Tower and his feet toasted and other dangly bits.

@Bugger (the Panda)

What is going on re Maj?

Don’t watch or listen to tv or radio so need an explanation.

Ta Muchly

Most ‘Journalist’s’ can’t even play the ball, never mind run after the ball. They are finished.

“Are you sure it wasn’t the Gardez Loo and the forgot to drain you off at the Tail o’ the Bank.”

I wondered what the smell was,
Tail o the Bank?
next stop Ellis Island and a liberal spray down with flea treatment?

Nana Smith

Davis Cameron was recoded talking to the ex Mayor of New York and saying he telephoned Libby to say everything was OK as they had won. He said she purred with satisfaction. I don’t have a reference, but STV reported, as did others.

That was a mutual death warrant as far as I am concerned.

I could send up the larger yacht to the Tail for yez all.

I am so tired now of hearing about what has happened we lost, we now need to focus on finding out who are being put forward as local MPs for each area will be to fight and remove Labour and Tories from Scotland for good.