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No regrets

Posted on September 24, 2014 by

Or some regrets. It’s so hard to tell.

murraygrets

The UK media, ladies and gentlemen.

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    1. 24 09 14 23:05

      No regrets | FreeScotland

    333 to “No regrets”

    1. handclapping says:

      No, however hard I try he does not look like Edith Piaf.

    2. Valerie says:

      FFS, grow a pair Andy. He should have lambasted the arse who tweeted him to be dead, and asked what are the police doing, and went off on a rant about that, not dither about supporting his country.

    3. Capella says:

      I think the point is Valerie that we have absolutely no idea what Andy Murray said, if anything. Our media just make things up. Who knows. We need real media for grown ups.

    4. Kevin Evans says:

      Just watching the news about Syria and Iraq – ya know after this refurendum I can’t believe a word any news channel says – maybe that’s a good thing – form my own thoughts on any subject.

    5. galamcennalath says:

      As Mark Tain might have said ….

      “There are lies, damned lies and the UK media.”

    6. Morag says:

      Andy Murray is a nice lad and a dab hand with a tennis racket. But never forget he spent his teens in Barcelona hitting tennis balls, when the rest of us were sitting our Highers.

    7. Rod Miller says:

      The boys PR team have been at him again, that would be the same PR team that told him to stop wearing saltire wristbands! Allegedly!!

    8. Capella says:

      He did, however, coin the snappy slogan “Let’s do this”. We can adopt that.

    9. muttley79 says:

      Did he say he regret tweeting, or did he just says he has no regrets? Was the first part what the MSM think about it?

    10. muttley79 says:

      @Morag

      Is it a good idea or even nice to imply Andy Murray is thick? After all, he did not have to do what he did.

    11. Molly says:

      Nice to see a Scot unafraid to give his view.

      As a businessman and employer also nice to see he was not going to up and leave, abandoning people for profit like so many if the decision was Yes.

      Mr Murray , I salute you ( I thought your timing was a perfect start to the day)

    12. Clarinda says:

      Are they trying to re-Britify him?

    13. Morag says:

      He’s not thick. He’s just singleminded and only educated in one aspect of life. He’s also a slave to his media advisors.

    14. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      A businessman called Molly.

      Fair enough.

      I think I am a Panda.

      Chaque un a son gout.

    15. Fireproofjim says:

      We, in our generally private lives, have no idea of the media pressure which Andy Murray has to put up with. Remember the London media hatred which descended on him when he joked he supported “anyone but England”.
      His heart is in the right place and he invests in Scotland. He is just trying to make his way in the one of the toughest arenas and he doesn’t need the hassle.

    16. Col The Viking says:

      I think it is a pretty good snapshot of MSM manipulation, Andy Murray on the Referendim is an appropriate topic for this site but you could have any range of things, like say Latest poll has Yes in ten point lead’ and the papers will still churn out ‘ Blow for Salmond as 65+ Demographic think he is reincarnation of Hitler minus the tash’ type headlines

      Plus ca change!

    17. Morag says:

      I should record that I’m a huge Andy Murray fan. I just have to remind myself occasionally that he’s a tennis player, not a political commentator.

    18. muttley79 says:

      Kind of off topic, some person on Guardian Cif is denying that Darling called the SNP blood and soil nationalists. Worth arguing with or waste of time? I was sure Darling did say that. I really hate how unionists/Brit nats take zero responsibility for anything.

    19. smithie says:

      Andy Murray has said he does not “regret giving an opinion” but is disappointed with the way he tweeted his support for Scottish independence.

      The tennis star was abused on Twitter for his tweet, which he sent just hours before the polls opened on Thursday.

      He said the UK was going to be stronger as a result of the referendum and he looked forward to competing for Great Britain for the rest of his career.

      Murray said everyone should be allowed an opinion but he wanted to “move on”.
      Sounds fair enough to me. Next?

    20. muttley79 says:

      Another thing, I really hate how BBC Scotland and the MSM are putting Andy Murray under pressure just because he backed Yes. They never did this with J.K. Rowling or the other favourites. How can anyone think that they are not biased.

    21. Kenny says:

      It’s nice, isn’t it? Rowling gets pelters on Twitter and Alex Salmond is meant to apologise. Murray gets dog’s abuse on Twitter and HE has to apologise? What now?

    22. Ghengis D'Midgies says:

      Advisers? I suppose that could explain it http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-29323123

    23. Cuilean says:

      Who annoyed me more than most, was ‘our’ very own posh-boy rugger twats. After all, this indy lark was a dreadful risk for our country, what, (the UK) especially their share values, Mummy’s, 2nd home, Primula’s private school fees next term & Morningside house prices. The Scotland Rugby team, bless their avaricious, middle-class little hearts. Smashing people like the Hastings boys terribly worried about the country. Their tory arses! I for one will never go to another rugby match to support middle class tartan tories of their phoney ilk. They surely must change their team name to North Britain. And don’t wear blue, drape yourselves in a union jack. I will positively choke with anger watching these smug, elitist bastards singing with false gusto Flower of Scotland to the derision of all. Boycott all their over-priced and in their case mediocre ‘rugger’ games. What a complete embarrassment they are to themselves. England is going to have a field day with their phoney patriotism. ‘When will we see your like again?’, indeed, Gavin Hastings et al. Patriots up to a point, but the private schools and share dividends come first, don’t you know, old chap. Foodbanks? Stuff & nonsense old boy!Scotland Rugby Union needs a new anthem, ‘Send In the Clowns’ sounds about right.

    24. muttley79 says:

      @Kenny

      Exactly, it is sickening the double standards on display. In addition, Rowling called us death eaters, and Murray never said anything about unionists (not that he should have) and yet he is the one being pressured to apologise.

    25. A.N.Surgent says:

      Was listening to radio 5 covering Andy`s game at the US open and
      they actually brought up the referendum, and the american commentator was going on about Scotland staying in the union, WTF.
      Turned it off before I was sick.

      They resent him would you believe for winning Wimbledon, they prefer the union jack waving hysteria of loser tim henman.

    26. Clarinda says:

      Morag – Messrs Hastings didn’t hold back in giving us the pleasure of acknowledging their remarkable grasp of proudscotery.

    27. EphemeralDeception says:

      Going against the establishment is all this is about. Andy is an ok guy. I dont particularly like his tennis but respect his skills and his right to an opinion.

      He is a Scot in a sport that craves British success within the UK. Therefore asserting any Scottishness will be, and has been, vilified. Or ‘Monstered’ as they now say.

      So good on ye Andy. Keep onwards and upwards.

    28. David says:

      I wish he would just say ‘Is an opinion to support the YES vote in legal, democratic process not legitimate? How dare you question my political preferences!’

      Or something to that effect!

      Or maybe ‘Git tae feck ya bunch o’ wanks, ah’ll say whit want!’

    29. Valerie says:

      Posted just now by the Sunday Herald:-

      “Huge thanks to everyone who helped push our circulation last week to a tad under 50k … That’s an amazing 111% up on the same week last year. We can’t believe it!”

    30. Taranaich says:

      @muttley79: Kind of off topic, some person on Guardian Cif is denying that Darling called the SNP blood and soil nationalists. Worth arguing with or waste of time? I was sure Darling did say that.

      Mr Darling didn’t call the SNP blood-and-soil nationalists, he just agreed with someone who suggested that they were blood-and-soil nationalists. He didn’t use the words, he simply approved of someone else’s statement where they did use those words.

      Which is totally, utterly different. Apparently.

    31. muttley79 says:

      @Cuilean

      Exactly. Hastings, Calder, Sole and their likes want Scotland to remain a region. Nations govern themselves. In their eyes Scotland is not a nation. That is the only conclusion to make for their support for the No campaign. Well that an they are diehard Tories, and former public schoolboys.

    32. muttley79 says:

      @Taranaich

      Cheers. So this person on the Guardian is basically lying. I don’t really get the whole unionist/Brit nat mindset. How can you be happy to argue in this way?

    33. Lollysmum says:

      Whatever he said, he was always going to be criticised by one side or the other. He couldn’t win but he still came out for Yes and we have to thank him for that.

      This is a prime example of why celebrities/sports personalities, businesses etc were reluctant to put their heads above the parapet.

      What a sorry world we live in when MSM /politicians lie through their teeth & we can’t trust a word they say anymore. Their deceit knows no bounds.

      I’m sorry to say that I’m in England & that I am ashamed & disgusted by the actions of the Westminster elite. They don’t represent me. I was rooting for Scotland to win the referendum. It will happen.

      Make it happen Scotland. PLEASE

    34. Grouse Beater says:

      Murray together with his mother has dedicated some of his wealth to the establishment of a national Tennis Academy in Edinburgh, the site already identified, and as far as I can ascertain, purchased.

      We are dealing with a press that detests Scotland and its ambitions – any Scot daring to stand up to it considered fair game, or put another way, a piece of meat to kick around. Abuse and insult will not abate because we lost the vote – it will increase. Get used to it.

      If there’s one thing the Referendum proved it was how much loathing there is by sour English for Scots.

      Act maturely – either back Murray as a Scot of high achievement, or get a life.

      The USA together with its arse licker Britain are about to drag us into another war. Aim your indignation at them.

    35. Molly says:

      Ha ha BTP – I’ve read your comments on DB and always thought for a panda what an exotic life you seem to lead.

      Nous sommes tous différent

    36. Morag says:

      Muttley, the transcript of the interview exists. Indeed the audio recording was posted online. I think the transcript resorted to claiming that Darling’s words were inaudible at the point where he explicitly agreed to the description. He certainly acceded to it without challenge or contradition though.

    37. cynical lowlander says:

      I seem to be completely immune to sport.

      Thank god for that.

      I see they’re belting out propaganda about IS now.

      And we’re expected to believe it.

      Fool me once……..

    38. HandandShrimp says:

      As far as I can tell Andy and Jamie tweeted support for a Yes vote and were disappointed at some of the reaction to the tweet….given the nature of some of the reaction it isn’t hard to see why they were disappointed.

      However, the bottom line is they supported Yes.

      What Stu has highlighted is the fact that the media is an appalling source for information. It is not possible to believe any one outlet and you have to check and cross check everything to get your bearings on a story. We have seen first hand just how duplicitous the media can be.

    39. EphemeralDeception says:

      @Lollysmum. I agree except for one fundamental aspect.

      Andy is held up as target to e villified by the BBC as warning to discourage various icons from supporting YES.

      People will think twice about this now.

      On the other hand those who support No are also headlined but in an entirely different light.

      Salmond re:BBC.. how can the BBC be anything but the UK state communications channel? We just have to accept it and act accordingly.

    40. K1 says:

      @Muttley79, This may help to clarify the issue re Darling’s mumbling…

      http://wingsoverscotland.com/?s=inaudible+mumble

    41. John Young says:

      On reflection when we first delivered the Yes newspapers in the rain I was totally underwhelmed by the paper’s format and content. It was pathetic and in my opinion, treated readers as semi-literates who adored celebrities and able to be convinced by headlines like “Under independence you will be £500 better off”, without any proper justification.

      I believe this crap paper was produced by Nicola’s partner. By the way I rate Nicola very highly. I found it hard to keep going round with other editions of the Yes paper and eventually gave up and preferred to discuss the referendum with everyone I met. Many conversations.

      This is why the Wee Blue Book was so good, factual and with the links giving total authenticity to the contents.

      However it was a wee bit late, no persons fault, but if only Yes Scotland (the SNP) had respected and treated the Scottish electorate as having some intelligence things might have been better. For instance each Yes paper could have had a more upmarket layout, giving it implicitly more authority and concentrated on two or three topics per issue such as oil or pensions and given clear answers such as copying the DWP letter to defuse all these scare stories.

    42. schrodingers cat says:

      muttley
      Worth arguing with or waste of time?
      i have been wondering about cif too lately
      I like adversarial nature of the guardian, although wrt to scotland, it has become a daily mail play ground

      are we who post there wasting our time?

      also, facebook is swimming with yes but very few no posts, were we responsable for mobilising the no vote as well?

      in the run up to the GE, should we
      1. be more selective about our posts
      2. create a level of privacy between activists friednd and the general public?

      How do we mobilise the yes support while at the same time allowing the no’s to go back to sleep?

    43. Lollysmum says:

      Sorry -been a long day. Meant to say in my post above that I was rooting for YES to win.

    44. Graeme Doig says:

      He may regret having tweeted in haste but i’m proud of him for nailing his colours to the mast. He didn’t have to do that. I think the emotion of the day and his obvious support for independence was so overwhelming he couldn’t help himself.

      Media will spin it whatever way comes up their humph.

      Poor guy is going to get pelters next summer.

      Many smiley faces thinking an independence supporting Scot won their precious tennis tournament though. They won’t like that up them.

    45. Dixiee says:

      Funny old world a Scot can’t make a comment of support for the yes campaign. But David Beckham, David Bowie, J K Rowling, Richard Branson and all the other lackies can comment on something which is nothing to do with them and the are media heroes.

    46. muttley79 says:

      @schrodingers cat

      I think we are wasting our time with the Guardian. Its sales in Scotland are terrible, and it is so against Scottish independence that I don’t think we are doing any good engaging in debate with Brit nats there. The comments pages are now very anti Scottish. The hostility is very high against independence.

    47. ben madigan says:

      I think MSM criticism of some people (Andy murray in this instance but could be anybody) is all about creating hate figures and scapegoats.
      It’s all about projecting on to them what they cannot bear to look at face on because it reflects badly on their view of how things are supposed to be.
      It boils down to intolerance really as the fliside is they only tolerate/deify whoever agrees with them (rowlings for example).

    48. fred blogger says:

      http://www.youtube.com/embed/D8gcmMGQcVA bbc claims that murray said uk was now stronger as a result of the vote.

    49. joe kane says:

      It’s almost as if they’re all just a bunch of lazy gits making stuff up.

      I wonder how many of these prfessional churnalists quote their fellow churnalists to justify their claims and headlines?

    50. Fireproofjim says:

      John Young
      Absolutly agree with your comments about the puerile nature of the Yes newspaper.
      The obsession with minor celebrities and sportspeople was underwhelming. Before the last edition I emailed the Yes office saying they had to tackle the lies, and specifically the pension and currency scares from Gordon Brown. The last edition turned out to be even more dire, with bland headlines and the same dull content as previous editions.
      I did deliver them, but felt I was wasting my time. It could have been uplifting and exciting and should have employed some of the great journalists like Derek Bateman. They had plenty of money.

    51. muttley79 says:

      @John Young

      I cannot say I was impressed by the Yes newspapers either. They were substance free I am afraid.

    52. goldenayr says:

      Andy Murray tweets = sponsorship.

      Now we’ve cleared that pish up,how about carrying the YES vote forward?

    53. Craig says:

      O/t , that supposed technological breakthrough confirmed today to increase oil production is still a lie. It is already happening around the world and BP are already way down the road with it.

      http://www.offshore-technology.com/features/featurereduced-salinity-water-injection-losal-eor-clair-ridge/

    54. James123 says:

      I remember reading Andy’s tweet in the early hours of the morning on the day of the referendum, I woke up my girlfriend to tell her thinking it was just one more sign that we were gonna win this, just brings it all back.

    55. joe kane says:

      I see the President of Gingerbread, J.K. Rowling, had her faith in the Better Together campaign answered this week when Labour decided to steal the bread out of the mouths of the poorest children in Britain by freezing child benefit.

      I don’t suppose there will be a frenzy of headlines about J.K.’s judgement never mind what’s going to happen to the million’s of vulnerable children concerned.

    56. Democracy Reborn says:

      @Muttley79

      Actually, in the eyes of Hastings, Calder, Sole et al., I think they DO believe Scotland is a nation. And they are not alone. They just don’t think it incompatible with being part of the ‘multi-nation UK’. Now to you & I that concept is horseshit : how can any nation fully & meaningfully govern itself & make use of its wealth for the greatest number of its citizens, when it gets the government it elects only about 45% of the time. But that’s one of the challenges we face, addressing what BT reduced to ‘you can be Scottish & British’ with the associated ‘best of both worlds’.

      My gut feeling is that most Tory voters fit into the above mindset & it would be extremely difficult in any future referendum to persuade them differently. Labour & centrist voters are more fertile territory, but even with them the same mindset applies to a large number. The economic benefits of independence for them needs to be rammed home much more forcefully. I managed to persuade 4 No’s/DK’s into Yes in weeks leading up to the vote. My greatest challenge were another 3 definite No’s, all Labour voters. I did the gentle persuasion (knowing that the hard sell wouldn’t work), directed them to online sources, printed out copies of the WBB for them. They went from definite No’s to DK in the few days before the 18th. Unfortunately when it came to marking that cross (I know this because they all said the same thing afterwards) they hovered above the ballot paper. But in the end they couldn’t bring themselves to vote Yes. Mainly economic reasons, risk etc. although 2 of them also said (get this) that the calibre of Scottish politicians was so low that they’d rather have 26 millionaires in a WM Tory cabinet govern them than an independent Scottish govt. It really took all my self-control not to react to such supine disdain for your fellow citizens. Just shows you though what 300 years of the cringe & inferiority complex can do.

    57. Alan Mackintosh says:

      Morag, schrodinger, do you have any contacts re the examples of BT scaring pensioners over pension loss. Have a contact here in highlands trying to collate examples/details.

    58. liz says:

      @schrodingers cat – I think we are all kind of hanging about not quite sure what to do, but we want to do something.

      I think we’ve probably all been as high and low as it is possible to get, outwith personal tragedy.

      I know what I don’t want to do and that is to engage with any MSM.

    59. Graeme Doig says:

      Fred

      Yep. I missed it too

      John Young

      Agreed. Thought the paper sometimes looked to be appealing to ‘Sun’ readership the way the front cover design came across. If ‘win an iPad’ was going to make you read the paper you were probably convinced by BT and ultimately GB’s lies.

      Thought your idea re focusing on one issue per paper could have been much more effective. The headline needed to be hard hitting but based on facts not vacuous nonsense.

      Delivered each issue faithfully though but by the last one i really felt i could have been doing something much more effective.

    60. Kenny says:

      Andy Murray is a good person (so is his brother Jamie) and it is telling that he was disappointed in the no negativity from what he could see as someone living OUTSIDE the country. He could clearly see the ridiculous bias and it was good of him to speak out. I think it was his conscience speaking.

      I think Andy has covered himself in honours and the Scottish rugby team have covered themselves in disgrace. Why on earth have a separate national team anyway, if they just want our country to be an impoverished shire of England? I would hope they adopt “God Save the Queen” as their anthem and the St George’s cross as their flag, seeing they think their home nation should not be, um, a nation.

      Andy’s brother Jamie was the more talented player, but his game was ruined by the dipsticks of the LTA when he went down to England to train. Their mother decided they were not going to make the same mistake again… and sent the younger brother Andy to Spain to train.

      The way Andy has stirred up the BBC and the Telegraph is a badge of honour! It is like people who are hated by the Daily Mail: it is a badge to be worn with great PRIDE!

    61. Tartan Tory says:

      I have no issues with Andy Murray. He is an ex-pat who didn’t have a vote, just like Brian Cox. However, the difference between Murray and Cox is a stark one. A last minute Tweet from Murray meant nothing compared to the work and effort on the ground and in the media by Brian Cox. At the end of the day, celebrity endorsement means little in my own view, but if Murray had been on-side like the rest of us were much earlier-on, it might have helped significantly with the media.

      As for the point of this piece, any ‘Alert Reader’ who doesn’t know the MSM are more interested in creating news instead of reporting it, isn’t too alert after all.

    62. Faltdubh says:

      I like him.

      If you hear the interview he says that he has no regrets about voicing his support for what he believed, but he could have done it better (I bet deep down he’s thinking, EARLIER, haha)

      He will get shite about this no doubt at all when down at Wimbledon. So we should back him.

      He played his hand and supported us even if it was at the 11th hour.

      He deserves praise not criticism.

      BBC ran with ”Murray regrets Indyref tweet” which again shows the bias in our media.

      Yet, we’ve not heard them asking Hastings, Beckham, Geldoff and all those who backed No if they regret back them?

      55%, no I’ll say 25% of us, the other 30% may have a brain, but thy want to be British – the 25% who may want devo max/indy, but shat it are ZIPPED UP THE BACK.

    63. goldenayr says:

      It would seem the Kings Fund is the provider of choice for labour in England when it comes to NHS provision.

      Who are filling their coffers up here?

      Time to email Eleanor Bradford.

    64. muttley79 says:

      @Democracy Reborn

      Aye, maybe you are right and they do think Scotland is a nation. We do need to understand why they and the 55 per cent voted No. If we do not, then we have not got a chance of achieving independence.

    65. liz says:

      @Craig – most of us know, I think the video from BP outlining the new technology was posted on here before the 18th.

      I’m not on FB but I sent it to my brother and said put in out there, they are lying but it was always the folk who relied on MSM and BBC that were behind the loop so even now some folk will think this is new information.

      This is the problem we have and we need to deal with it but someone with more vision than me is needed to find a way.

    66. yesindyref2 says:

      So he didn’t recant, and he has no regrets about his tweet. That’s a shame, I was going to do a Coleman: “New balls please”. Now I can’t. Oh, wait …

    67. goldenayr says:

      Good Grief is this whole site swamped by inconsequential pish?

      Who gives a monkeys about Murray you morons?

      This is about indy,not celebrity.

    68. Onwards says:

      No surprises his comments are getting misreported.

      For what it’s worth, I reckon he doesn’t see any incompatibility between an independent Scotland and Britain.

      You can support both.
      Plenty of people think it would be better all round – a new partnership of equals.

      The whole idea is only controversial to those who see things in black and white.

      I don’t think it will make any difference to his career. He will always have the same detractors – the nasty element of English racists who will never forgive him for that football joke made years ago.

      He is probably pretty pleased that it will forever stick in their throats when he won Wimbledon 🙂

    69. hadrianswall says:

      Will be interesting to see how many unionists get honoured for saving the union. That will be stomach churning.

    70. I honestly think Indyref 2 will be eminently winnable simply because, in the hours/days/weeks/months/years prior to Indyref 1, we reached such a saturation point with the maniacal lies of the media that it can no longer hold.

      The weight of lies is dripping out of the bottom of their big wet package, so to speak, and those people who have been less engrossed, less involved are starting to see it.

      This is in a large part because we, the YESSERS, are letting people know about it. And it really is up to us to spread this message far and wide, that they CANNOT trust the media, and explain why.

      But I think people will put two and two together themselves. They will see stories, like today’s, about big Oil bonanza’s and will recall how our beloved media painted pictures of the Oil Industry as an Apocalypse waiting to happen.

      There simply wasn’t enough time for a broad awareness of the media’s failings to spread prior to Indyref 1. But for Indyref 2, the ethically vile and treacherous role of the media will be a commonly known thing, much more so than it is now.

      I’m convinced of it.

    71. manandboy says:

      With Nicola as FM and hubby Peter Murrell as SNP CEO,
      upgrading the back office could be a challenge.

      I’m sure the 60000 members will have some input.

    72. Brian McHugh says:

      I just spent the evening listening to Will McLeod’s last broadcast on Netroots Radio and it is a timely reminder in the aftermath of events…

      http://netrootsradio.blogspot.co.uk/2014/09/the-after-show-september-19-2014.html?m=1

      This isn’t about Andy Murray or even the elitist Tennis fraternity… it is about a disgusting, biased, out of control media.

      Phone hacking… institutional paedophilia in the BBC… corruption… cover-up’s…

      They are even now propagating their lies to go to war again this evening… but be safe in the knowledge that once your eyes are open, they stay open.

    73. goldenayr says:

      hadrianswall

      MacAvity,Darling,Alexander(D&Beaker)will get their just desserts.

    74. ronnie anderson says:

      Fast forward to next Wimbledon finals & a Scotsman wins it, ah revenge served with Scottish Strawberry’s n Cornish Cream.pimms anyone.

    75. goldenayr says:

      Brian McHugh

      Whit happened to the money donated?

    76. yesindyref2 says:

      schrodingers cat and mutley
      I think the circulation in Scotland is less than 10,000 could be wrong, and what I saw in my travels around Scotland is that it was bought a lot by tourists or holiday homers from down south, so probably more like 5,000 to natives. That’s when I stopped bothering (dadsarmy) and focussed on the Herald.

      No idea if it was worth it though. Perhaps for Cif it helped Kevin McKenna come out for YES, and the Herald, well,the Sunday Herald and Ian McW, who knows. Maybe even helped to keep the Herald more neutral, and the Guardian to have some surprisingly good articles at times.

      Pass! Next time I’ll not bother with the Herald, except maybe the very odd posting, probably on a Sunday.

    77. yesindyref2 says:

      goldenayr
      I think perhaps it’s an attempt to lighten the mood 🙂

    78. smithie says:

      Well looking back to the commnwealth games, did we boo the english squad? Hell no. So i don’t expect Andy will get adverse feelings??( hoping but don’t expect)

    79. goldenayr says:

      yesindyref2

      Don’t give up on the papers.

      Pain always causes regret.

      And how do you make a paper feel pain?

      Don’t log on.

    80. Bruce says:

      I saw Murray commenting on this in a TV interview. He said “I have no regrets”. Pretty clear cut, although I think the confusion has come because he seems to have suggested he could have come out in a different way or worded his tweet better. If you look at his brother Jamie’s tweets in the days before the referendum, it’s not hard to imagine that Andy is now wishing he had taken a leaf out of his big brother’s book.
      Incidentally, Scotland’s 3rd GB Davis Cup player, the doubles specialist Colin Fleming, also came out in support of Yes, making it 3 out of 3 for the Yes camp when it came to Scotland’s top tennis players. These guys put the rugger and fitba boys to shame, despite the fact they all (unlike in football and rugby) have no choice but to represent GB when playing at international level. They all stuck their necks out when they didn’t have to and as a result will undoubtedly face a lot of grief from both the LTA and the British tennis supporting public. I for one feel very proud of the three of them.

    81. James Dow says:

      Off topic My observation from afar.
      Gordon Browns behaviour has revealed his true con

    82. John Gibson says:

      Cynical lowlander said “I seem to be completely immune to sport”

      Snap! Don’t get it either, especially of the ‘team’ variety. Just about see the sense of individual tests of speed, endurance etc – but it just doesn’t mean much to me. Most animals are physically superior – our advantages as a species were always intelligence coupled with the ability to cooperate it seems to me.

      As to the media, I gave up on the printed press over ten years ago (bought The Daily Mail at that time – but only for the crossword/soduku during breaks honest guv!), and tv “news” around the same time – only watched it during the last two years to get a sense of what the opposition were up to.

      Back to happily ignoring both. Like some others here I’ve voted SNP for a long time, thirty five years or so, and I’m pretty sure we’ll see another referendum, hopefully in my lifetime.

    83. smithie says:

      hadrianswall @11.49pm
      Exactly mate. Makes me wanna puke.Fuckin ("Tractor" - Ed)s

    84. manandboy says:

      Indy/SNP remain in the cross-hairs of the BBC Death Star.

      Disarming the BBC’s hitmen McQuarrie & Boothman would seem to be a top priority if we are to see any big success in the General Election.

      But how is a very big question.

      But we do need an answer.

      Perhaps John McTernan is free just now.

    85. Onwards says:

      @goldenayr

      Realistically, indy is on the back burner for now until the ‘extra powers’ situation plays out.

      We have to look at the reasons why No won, and analyse what we can do better if we get another chance.

      The comments above show a major issue:

      >Democracy Reborn
      Actually, in the eyes of Hastings, Calder, Sole et al., I think they DO believe Scotland is a nation.

      I believe many people do think like this.
      But that attitude depends on whether you think a nation should be more than just a culture and a place on a map.

      What makes a country a nation, for me is sovereign power.

      But I think there is a big difference between Scotland as a culture, and Scotland as a normal country with the political powers to govern itself, and to represent itself in the world.

      Scotland the culture is safe, but to me, being proud of Scotland in that context alone is completely hollow.

      How can you be truly patriotic, when you don’t think that your country could govern itself ??

      It means no more than saying “I am proud to be Glaswegian”

      I wish someone could represent this better in a cartoon or distil it down to a simple phrase.
      Many people just don’t see the difference.

      Right now, Scotland feels like Tibet or Palestine. A stateless nation. But the difference is, we voted for it ourselves.

    86. goldenayr says:

      smithie

      You realise you’re post stinks to high doh of “troll shit”.

    87. yesindyref2 says:

      goldenayr
      I think the next referendum in less than 2 years will be different, and the print media will be relatively unimportant, and there’s not much we can do anyway.

      Next time I’ll probably get more directly involved with what I learnt, hopefully. Anyway, the Herald has a great load of posters, different talents, different styles.

    88. schrodingers cat says:

      Alan Mackintosh
      old women was in pitlessie, icould find the cottage numebre but she is too frail, i could get others who were there to corroborate my story though, im not making it up,

      hi dadsarmy, wonder where you had got to 🙂

    89. goldenayr says:

      Onwards

      You have distilled our problem to “Glasgow”.

      And that is the SNPs prob,not the YES campaigns.

      We have to get the message out that we are all affected.

      We chased the poors vote and labour are now using our slogans.

      Time to ditch the parties and say…

      WE ARE LEGION

    90. crazycat says:

      @ muttley79

      I had a spat of CiF at the time of Darling’s blood and soil inaudibility, with a poster called dyewitness, who just told me I was making it up. No point in further engagement with such people.

    91. schrodingers cat says:

      liz says:

      24 September, 2014 at 11:39 pm

      @schrodingers cat – I think we are all kind of hanging about not quite sure what to do, but we want to do something.

      i know what im going to do, im gonna organise the local yes group to focus on the GE in 6 months time, i think we can clear scotland of all unionist mp,s and i intend to make it happen in my constituency. the morning after the next ge, we will have smiles on our faces and the threads will be a lot happier, it will be the biggest lift this campaign can have. think about it liz

    92. yesindyref2 says:

      Craig
      google – oil north sea water desalination plant – Sep 2012:

      “Global energy giants BP has revealed new technology that will significantly boost the amount of oil it can extract from wells.

      A scheme involving injecting desalinated water into oil wells will be used in the Claire Ridge development West of Shetland.”

    93. goldenayr says:

      crazycat

      The very inappropriateness of your comment should be enough to suggest the stupidity.

    94. yesindyref2 says:

      schrodingers cat
      I got to be post-moderated in the Herald about Dec 12 posting on something nothing to do with indy, and from then was doomed doomed doomed to keep posting there, as very few indy supporters were 😉

    95. James Dow A voice from the diaspora says:

      Off topic My observation from afar.
      Gordon Browns behaviour has revealed his true condition.
      A devious sociopath {A person with a psychopathic personality who lacks a sense of moral responsibility or social conscience}
      I hope he gets cancer of the eye {And soon} for he is blind to the true nature of Scotland and her people.
      On a personal note his comment that Scotland does not have a particularly different identity to the rest of the UK is interesting, for I distinctly remember as a visiting piper from Australia to perform in the 2005 Tattoo marching down Princes Street in the capital of my nation Edinburgh and my birthplace, attired in the garb of my nation, playing national tunes on the national instrument of my nation, feeling distinctly Scottish and probably looked distinctly Scottish which I am, to the thousands of onlookers.
      Surely it couldn’t have happened I must have been delusional for Gordon Brown is never wrong just ask him, the pompous prat, and a waste of an average white skin.
      His everlasting legacy should be of an ogre of a man intimidating the most vulnerable section of society into believing their pensions, and hence their very survival was at risk. A patent lie, and the most despicable one of the whole campaign.
      But nothing is below this particular WORD warrior and that is the only time the descriptive term warrior could be attached to his name, and what kind of Scottish name is Brown anyway?

    96. Smithie says:

      goldenayr says:

      smithie

      You realise you’re post stinks to high doh of “troll shit”.
      OK i bow down to your superior knowledge bud (Not)I’m chilled YOUR prob Bud

    97. yesindyref2 says:

      For some reason I only get the page refreshed about every 25 minutes, no matter how hard I try. Same when I fire up Chrome. But it seems some people can do instant replies – anyone else having the same problem as me?

    98. goldenayr says:

      crazycat

      Give it up with the pseuedo intellectual pish from the guardian comment section.

      Grow up and realise they’re paid for trolls as realised by the Scotsman auditors

    99. goldenayr says:

      Smithie

      Howye Smee.

    100. yesindyref2 says:

      I think Sturgeon on Scotland Tonight shows the way to go for the GE 2015. She says that though Independence is still her reason for being, they will focus on making the most of Devolution and getting all the powers promised by the 3 parties and their leader – basically Devo-Max.

      The thing is that if the other 3 parties all backslide, unless the Scottish branches of them decide to go their own way, then the only party pushing for more powers is the SNP and the rest of Scotland Alliance too.

      45% wanted Indy, and from Ashcroft, 14% (25% x 55% NO) the more powers promised, and then there’s that big 25% (47% x 55% NO) who were worried about Indy Scotland but very possibly would have liked it if reassured.

      That’s potentially up to 84% that could vote for an All Scotland party and be prepared to ditch the other 3. All that has to be done, if this is the “approved” way, is to push that more powers must be delivered – or else bye bye farenotsowell to 53 Unionist MPs not doing their job pushing for the more powers to be delivered.

    101. Smithie says:

      Goldenayr. Please tell us what you saw re, voting /referendum night etc

    102. goldenayr says:

      yesindyref2

      One thing.

      I am not SNP.

      Nor am I any political party.

      And if you keep trying to tie me down then wait for the repercussions evangelist.

    103. goldenayr says:

      Smithie

      Why?

    104. liz g says:

      @james dow a voice from the diaspora

      Cancer of the eye!
      Really?
      Are you Mad,Bad or just Dangerous to know?
      You are posting to CANCER CENTRAL IN EUROPE
      Not clever!

    105. smithie says:

      goldenayr says:

      Smithie

      Howye Smee
      Pardon son??What you blethering aboot?

    106. smithie says:

      Goldenayr, i feel for you

    107. liz g says:

      Look how mad Dispora Person got me spelling went to hell
      To meet all the other people who wish CANCER on any one

    108. goldenayr says:

      smithie

    109. goldenayr says:

      smithie

      Big fists sma’ buttons.

      How about the 12:03 post?

      Tell me how that helps?

    110. yesindyref2 says:

      @goldenayr
      Eh? I never said you were SNP – are you confusing me with someone else? Well, you are!

    111. Rock says:

      Andy Murray backed independence at the very last moment when it looked very likely of winning.

      If it was meant to benefit the Yes campaign, he should have spoken earlier.

      I think it was an opportunistic move, for his own benefit. At that stage he wasn’t under any pressure to back either side.

    112. goldenayr says:

      To all those who are disaffected by the ref.

      Joining a party will not salve your wounds.

      Get your local campaigners together and discuss the next course of action.

      Cooperation not Subjugation.

    113. Smithie says:

      For your information Goldenayr, i was at the opening of postal ballots, and i was there on the 18th ref night, what were you doing?. So how dare you presume i am a troll.I will be as polite as i can be tonight. look forward to your reply sir.

    114. Valerie says:

      A great many are joining the pro indy parties tho’, and that can only be a good thing. They perhaps want to feel under an umbrella now and getting organised, so its a good thing, as I do believe we have to keep this level of commitment going. The local groups may well have just packed up. Also just read that Nicola Sturgeon would not rule out a 2nd referendum and would get all pro indy parties to agree a pledge, which is what many of us have discussed, so we are not that wide of the mark!!!

    115. Betty Boop says:

      @ liz, 11:39pm

      I think we are all kind of hanging about not quite sure what to do, but we want to do something.

      Liz, our local Yes group had a dinner together this evening followed by a meeting to talk through some of our ideas for the way forward, discussing the campaign just fought and how to encourage people to come on board.

      The dinner was an enjoyable, relaxed event for our campaigners and there was incredible enthusiasm for the challenge ahead and some very interesting ideas about engaging people One thing we discussed is the need to educate people about basic aspects of our current political set up and organise more discussion events which we found popular before. We need to enthuse people about Scotland and its culture to raise self respect.

      Moreover, our core group seems to have expanded to three times its size since a few weeks ago with many others on our list of helpers.

      Who would have thought when we started out that so many people would become so politically active? Amazing. Hats off to all of us.

      As Robin McAlpine wrote on Bellacaledonia, “Wipe your eyes,on your feet”. We go on.

    116. goldenayr says:

      Smithie

      Noticed you never said which side you were on.

    117. Alex Clark says:

      Well done you Betty. That’s the way to go!

    118. goldenayr says:

      Alex Clark

    119. goldenayr says:

      Alex Clark

      Point taken.

    120. goldenayr says:

      Betty Boop

    121. goldenayr says:

      Betty Boop

      Planning the same for this weekend.

      No political parties welcome.

    122. Betty Boop says:

      @ Tartan Tory, 11:43pm, 24/09/14

      As for the point of this piece, any ‘Alert Reader’ who doesn’t know the MSM are more interested in creating news instead of reporting it, isn’t too alert after all.

      I think perhaps the article is for the benefit of newer readers rather than we sceptical/never believe anything in print until we have analysed it to the nth degree old Wingers. 🙂

      O/T Looking over the comments on the previous post and this one, it strikes me that some folks are getting a bit overheated. A wee bit of goodwill and tolerance would not go amiss – we have enough of a challenge ahead without sniping at each other. Chill.

    123. goldenayr says:

      Betty Boop

      Blame must be apportioned somewhere and I take mine +.

    124. Betty Boop says:

      Hi Alex Clark,

      I suspect you will all be doing the same. You noticed some of us never seem to sleep at night ! 🙂

    125. Betty Boop says:

      Goldenayr,

      I find a rum and coke soothes almost anything 🙂

    126. goldenayr says:

      Betty Boop

      Tell that tae Wullie.

      No seen him in years.

    127. James Dow A voice from the diaspora says:

      Really Liz g I could have wished a lot worse fate than that.
      And yes I would be very, very dangerous to my enemies.
      Cancer is just a condition like a lot of other human ailments. Never fear your own mortality nothing is promised. Relax take a chill pill and don’t be a dramatist
      you will probably live longer if that is your fear.
      All I expressed is my contempt for GB.

    128. liz g says:

      Diaspora person

      TATTIE BYE
      I am off to live long and prosper

      And will not respond to you again

      GET IT

      GOT IT

      GOOD

    129. LizM says:

      Hi Liz posted a comment to you on prev thread which of course vanished without trace. Anyway it is past pumpkin and I should be in land of nod. Goodnight all

    130. liz g says:

      Liz M saw you’re comment night hun catch up tomorrow x

    131. yesindyref2 says:

      I never saw this before “What should happen next if Scotland votes No?”:

      http://whatscotlandthinks.org/questions/what-should-happen-next-if-scotland-votes-no#table

      “There should be no further change to the powers and responsibilities of the Scottish Parliament Sep 2013 28%, Sep 2014 18%

      The Scottish Parliament should become primarily responsible for making decisions about taxation and welfare benefits in Scotland. Sep 2013 59%, Sep 2014 74%.”

      The line drawing really shows the steady change. Pretty strong stuff. Sorry if it’s been an article here or posted previously.

    132. yesindyref2 says:

      Removing don’t knows, that’s support for what is basically Independence + Devo-Max risen from 68% in September 2013 to 80% on 16th September 2014, two days before the referendum. Can’t see if the poll is Scotland only, or across the UK.

      Taking July at 71%, Aug 75%, Sep 80%, what next? Oct 85%, Nov 90%?

      I can’t work this out at all, strategy, tactics, brain hurts, overload, sleep, sleep, Brown hath murdered sleep.

    133. Donald says:

      Well this is explosive – http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/scottish-politics/elections-watchdog-calls-in-police-over-no-camp-postal-vote-claims.25423662 calls the whole result into question. I hope to god this means there is a re vote and we get the right result second time.

    134. Capella says:

      @Donald
      well spotted! What is the implication for the validity of the result? Any lawyers out there?
      I also thought the announcements on new powers during the purdah period were a breach of the Edinburgh Agreement which invalidates the result.

    135. Mealer says:

      Yep.The media.
      Andy Murray is entitled to his own opinions and to express those opinions if he wishes.In common with most Scots,he thinks Scotland could be a successful independent country.

    136. Early Ball says:

      A.N.Surgent

      “loser Henman”

      Can’t believe I feel the need to defend Henman on Wings with the same argument I used to defend Andy. Henman was in the top ten in the world of his chosen profession and won millions of quid in prize money. A right loser! How many of us are in the top ten in the world at what we do? Not very many.

      Fair play to Andy for the tweet. His PR folk would have been advising that he said nothing but he felt he had to say something despite the crap he knew would follow.

    137. schrodingers cat says:

      The meaning of Devo Max has been hi jacked by MSM

      we should talk about Full Fiscal Autonomy instead

    138. Brian McHugh says:

      Goldenayr, you will need to be more specific?

    139. Tony Little says:

      @Cappella

      Ruthie’s slip of the tongue will not change the validity of the vote. If anything she will get a gentle rap on the knuckles. Don’t build up hopes.

      Do any of the rest of you have my “problem”. I used to log on to a number of media websites to comment etc. but bow, apart from reading WoS, Bella, NC and Bateman, I do not seem in the mood. Maybe I’m still quietly depressed, but I can’t stand the continued bile and vitriol BTL any more. The referendum open amy eyes even more to the undercurrent of many peoples’ view of Scotland. Sad.

      To the future! I seem to use Twitter more, but need a new meme. I was reflecting that as we need to get some of the 55% into the light, we should be using something more inclusive/ I still have “45” but maybe that’s too insular? I was thinking of Scottish Alliance, but maybe with something forward looking as well.

      I’ll probably be posting less, I have to try and get back to work – outwith Scotland, unfortunately, there was nothing here for me (the reason I ant overseas in the first place) and the NO vote will not change that situation.

      Thanks once again to everyone. It has been one hell of a ride, and like all good rides, the second one should be even more fun!

      Alba gu brath

    140. Tony Little says:

      Why am I in pre-mod?

    141. Tony Little says:

      Long comment not posted?

    142. handyandy says:

      Craig says:
      24 September, 2014 at 11:31 pm
      O/t , that supposed technological breakthrough confirmed today to increase oil production is still a lie. It is already happening around the world and BP are already way down the road with it.

      http://www.offshore-technology.com/features/featurereduced-salinity-water-injection-losal-eor-clair-ridge/

      O/T there is a bill board outside Aberdeen airport about BP using the technology to extend the life of mature fields its been there about 2 years now and i am sure Ian Wood mentioned it in his report to WM

    143. Haggis Hunter says:

      The Brits are sick because he isnt English / British, the all English hero. They were shocked when Andy said he wasnt supporting England in the world cup before last, that brought him a lot of abuse and all the plugs were pulled to prevent him saying anything like that again.

    144. AS afully-engaged member of the Scottish rugby community, can I ask some of the posters on here to, lay-off.

      As far as I can discerne, NO current professional Scottish rugby player – the guys from whom our national XV will be selected, came out as either a Yes or No voter prior to the referendum.

      Several former Scotland internationalists – the Hastings brothers, David Sole, Fin Calder etc – came out, very prominently, as No voters.

      However, their efforts to use BT Murrayfield were thwarted by the SRU. Their photo-call and press conference had to be held outside BT MNurrayfield, in the streets of Roseburn, because the SRU would not allow them inside to associate the Union with their campaign.

      These guys were mainly public school-educated, middle-class businessmen in their fifties: by definition, natural Tory and No voters. Their ability to garner newspaper interest in their stance owed everything to sporting deeds over 25-years ago.

      They did NOT in this instance represent the SRU and those on here who are somehow maligning Scottish rugby today should shut-up.

      I have no doubts some of the public school-educated Scottish players of today voted No, I also know some of them voted Yes, it’s a personal thing.

      I accept, over the whole Scottish rugby community, given its demographic, there would be a No majority – I know my own proud wearing of Yes badges got me a fair amount of gentle slagging in various clubhouses.

      However, a small number of Scottish football “personalities”, like the rugger buggers, guys whose greatest days were two or three decades behind them, also came out for No.

      They didn’t have the excuse (if it is an excuse) of having had a public school-middle-class upbringing. Most of them escaped from the Yes heartlands of housing schemes, food banks and benefits to the rarefied “heights” of the noveau riche developments of the Glasgow commuter belt. But, they didn’t get anything like the slagging-off the rugby guys got.

    145. Free Scotland says:

      When Andy won the olympic gold in 2012, he looked very uncomfortable with the union jack around his shoulders and ditched it pretty quickly. The GB Davis Cup squad is full of Scots, so if they’re going to start booing Andy and Co., they deserve to be relegated. Typical unionist attitude is “better together, unless your attitude is different from ours.”

    146. Dorothy Devine says:

      I think it was patently obvious even to a halfwit like me , that Andy Murray was a Scot supporting Scotland.

      Why the media think it’s OK to defend some other millionaire Scots who supported NO with exaggerated claims of folk being nasty to them is the major stumbling block for me.

      But then I was always for level paying fields and fairness -Seems the height of naïvety now.

    147. john king says:

      Lollysmum says
      “Whatever he said, he was always going to be criticised by one side or the other. He couldn’t win but he still came out for Yes and we have to thank him for that. ”

      Thanks for the good wishes lollysmum,
      A far as Andy Murray is concerned, well,
      he takes the (admittedly) difficult step and (declares?) with what was arguably an ambiguous statement then whines “its been a difficult few days for ME”!

      OMG we’re sorry Andy, if we had known how much it was going to upset you we would never have done it!

      IF he had the balls he could have stood up to the press and said I SUPPORT SCOTTISH INDEPENDENCE, whatja gonna do about it, chuck out the only “British “(spit) winner for the last 80 years because I dont fit your idea of a new Fred Perry?

      I know its easy for someone like me to say it bacause I have nothing to lose but at what point does self interest have to take second place to priciples?

      BtP says
      “Chaque un a son gout.”

      Clo the Viking says
      “Plus ca change!”

      Molly says
      “Nous sommes tous différent”

      I say
      c’est quoi ce bordel qui se passe ici

      I get on the ferry at Govan for Dunoon
      and fall asleep

      How many effing stops did I miss?

      Onwards says
      “I wish someone could represent this better in a cartoon or distil it down to a simple phrase.

      I would characterize it as a proudscotbut in full regalia
      sinking fast into a union flag coloured swamp singing Rule Brittania!

      James Dow A voice from the diaspora @ 12.40

      Your intemperate comment displays a simple fact, YOU DONT LIVE HERE as you psudonym suggests,
      I get your hurting just like the rest of us, but comments like that just dont do any good, they justify the rolling eye’d nutter tag those poeple just love to hang on us.

      Im sure like And Murray you “regret” that comment?

      Why, suddenly after the appearance of (relatively) new posters who wern’t necesseraly apparent to us all before the referendum are they being tagged (almost universally) as trolls?

      If they had been trolls, what would be the point of hiding behind faux outrage, surely the obvious thing for a troll to do now would be to shout na na na nana and run?

      People are angry and looking for an outlet for that anger,
      the fact that Wings is open to all good and bad intellegent and not so intellegent is its strength, lets not make it its weakeness!

      BTW Im no longer pre moderated on Newsnet. 🙂

    148. Ken500 says:

      Cameron, Brown, Clegg and their bankers are going to continue to waste £Billions of public money. They are going to be neutered.

    149. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      I sometimes think that the Rev Stu could put up the Shipping Forecast as the topic de nuit, for our time shifters and insomniacs, and we would still talk and argue about whatever it was that was troubling us during daylight hours.

      Very special, this lot.

    150. john king says:

      ps
      Before anyone leaps on me I count myself among the not so intellegent. 😉

    151. john king says:

      Mornin BtP
      You dont need to discuss the shipping forecast
      I can tell you its flat calm out there, I fell asleep after leaving Govan for Dunoon and woke up in the Port of Gennevilliers in Ile-de-France. 🙂

    152. Ken500 says:

      Maj is finished

    153. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      Shrodingers Cat

      They have hijacked Devo Max and redefined it.

      “When I use a word,” Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less.”

      HD is bawface Cameron.

      You are right FFA it is then, for me, from now on.

    154. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      John King

      So yo left Sunny Govaan and sailed to Paris.

      Are you inseine?

    155. john king says:

      I did wonder about the ferry from Govan called Bateau Mouche. didnt exactly scream doon the watter 🙂

    156. john king says:

      Ken500
      “Maj is finished”

      My thoughts as well.

    157. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      Are you sure it wasn’t the Gardez Loo and the forgot to drain you off at the Tail o’ the Bank.

      I suppose their cargo could be easily lost in the I de F.

      They have a political class the same as us, just more of them, so it wouldn’t be noticed.

    158. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      Libby is toast.

      Cameron should be locked up in the Tower and his feet toasted and other dangly bits.

    159. Ken500 says:

      Unionists have won the battle but lost the War.

    160. Nana Smith says:

      @Bugger (the Panda)

      What is going on re Maj?

      Don’t watch or listen to tv or radio so need an explanation.

      Ta Muchly

    161. Ken500 says:

      Welcome to the Party everyone.

    162. Ken500 says:

      Most ‘Journalist’s’ can’t even play the ball, never mind run after the ball. They are finished.

    163. Macart says:

      Wait whut?

      Did someone say party?

    164. john king says:

      “Are you sure it wasn’t the Gardez Loo and the forgot to drain you off at the Tail o’ the Bank.”

      I wondered what the smell was,
      Tail o the Bank?
      next stop Ellis Island and a liberal spray down with flea treatment?

    165. john king says:

      Talking of which
      She who must be obeyed has been trying to get a hotel that would suit everyone for a d,b&b with a reasonable price bracket, does anyone have any ideas as to where they would like (if at all)?
      How many rooms do you have BtP? 🙂

    166. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      Nana Smith

      Davis Cameron was recoded talking to the ex Mayor of New York and saying he telephoned Libby to say everything was OK as they had won. He said she purred with satisfaction. I don’t have a reference, but STV reported, as did others.

      That was a mutual death warrant as far as I am concerned.

    167. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      single end

    168. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      I could send up the larger yacht to the Tail for yez all.

    169. Nana Smith says:

      @Bugger (the Panda)

      Thanks.

      Doubt much will happen, they all have a vested interest in paving over any cracks.

      I just want rid of the whole stinking edifice.

    170. Wilma says:

      I am so tired now of hearing about what has happened we lost, we now need to focus on finding out who are being put forward as local MPs for each area will be to fight and remove Labour and Tories from Scotland for good.

    171. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      How about that Britannia thingy in Leith Docks.

      We could organise Rebert Pfeffers and Ronnie and all the Wossers to set up a caravan park on the quay?

    172. john king says:

      BtP says
      “Davis Cameron was recoded talking to the ex Mayor of New York ”

      Yea that really pissed me off as well, conversations with the Quinie are sacrosanct for everyone but its ok to boast to your pals about it, (just dont get overheard by a smartass cameraman with a sound microphone).

    173. Macart says:

      I could do with a party….

      …and possibly a carton or two of cooking sherry.

      Oh, and perhaps the odd cheese and pineapple hedgehog doing the rounds.

    174. john king says:

      Funny you should say that because that was one of the first ideas Irene came out with but Im not sure about Ocean Terminal allowing a Gypsy encampement. 🙂

    175. john king says:

      BtP says
      “I could send up the larger yacht to the Tail for yez all.”

      What? the one at the back you mean?
      http://usaboatreview.com/archives/2009/09-royaldenship-258/Royal_Denship_258-5.jpg

    176. HandandShrimp says:

      BtP

      I thought Cameron’s indiscretion made both Cameron and HRH sound pretty shabby. I was pretty neutral on the retaining the Royals but that scunnered me.

    177. john king says:

      Macart says
      “I could do with a party….

      …and possibly a carton or two of cooking sherry. ”

      Smoe people just have to go and spoil it all, Cooking Sherry?

      It’ll be a boattle o asti spumanti oot o Aldi’s between 4 and like it. 😉

    178. Nana Smith says:

      Just a thought. Surely if queenie ‘purred’ that alludes to satisfaction that the peasants had fallen into line.

      To my mind it also shows just how little she and her brood care about Scots or English for that matter. So long as she can eat & heat her palaces, the elderly can freeze and starve. “Let them eat cake” mentality.

      Does anyone else think we should be yelling about this so we can get rid of them?

    179. john king says:

      “Oh, and perhaps the odd cheese and pineapple hedgehog doing the rounds.”

      That is so Abigails party Macart
      two doz frozen mini pizza’s from Tesco,
      fiver a pop.

    180. Macart says:

      @JK

      OH HO! Going up market are we? 😀

      YAASSSSS!

    181. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      John King that’s the one,the bigger one.

      HandandShrimp
      I was more just indifferent to Libby and was content to let that moldy vine just die off and then grub it up before Charlie woke up. Now it is a priority post Indie.

    182. Kalmar says:

      I didn’t like the Yes paper either. It reminded me of the dire, fact free Labour election materials, which are clearly designed to appeal to the stupid.

    183. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      Abigail’s Party

      Chortle

      That actress, forgotten her name was with Pete Postlethwaite in a play set in a second had car dealers’ csbin.

      He nutted her.

    184. john king says:

      Alison Steadman

    185. HandandShrimp says:

      Has everyone joined political parties? I haven’t made a leap yet. Was going to join the SNP but daughter made a good case for the Greens…just not sure I am green enough for the Greens but I do have considerable reservations about fracking and the like.

      Need to make my mind up one way or another. I see the SNP are now up around the 63,000 mark and the Greens over 7,000 (must make them bigger than the Lib Dems) I think the SSP are doing OK too.

    186. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      John King, Handandetc, Macart, and anyone else can call me Jim.

      I thought about putting up my real name several times but decided that I rather liked my sobriquet and sometimes when the Night Shift come on here I prefer to be a Panda.

      Who doesn’t like a Panda?

    187. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      HandandShrimp

      I did it last week.

      First time ever, in any political party.

      They need to know that we really care.

    188. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      SNP

      nearly 63,000 members. Get to 70,000 and we are breathing up Cameron’s trousers.

    189. john king says:

      Could it have been
      The Muscle Market BtP?

    190. manandboy says:

      http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/business/ineos-buys-scottish-fracking-licence-7633994
      _________________________________________________________

      A NO vote in the Referendum is a very big yes vote for fracking.

      Fracking is VERY bad news for homeowners

      and the more home you own the worse it gets.

      That’s for all the well off people who saw no point in

      taking any RISKS which might upset their comfy lifestyle

      and who voted NO.

      Wasn’t a NO vote a real bummer ?

      I wonder why Bitter Together didn’t use the benefits of the

      coming Tory backed FRACKING BOOM to promote a No vote in the

      referendum.

      You know the benefits:
      1. The water table gets badly polluted
      2. The ground under your home becomes unstable
      3. The environment is wrecked by huge numbers of water carrying trucks often using roads built for tractors
      3. A National Asset is effectively stolen for the benefit of the fracking companies and friends of the Tories living in London.
      4. Oh – and the value of your property collapses.
      5. All revenues and profits go to London or elsewhere.

      Ineos have ambitions to be a ‘serious player’ in the

      onshore oil and gas industry in the UK including in

      Scotland’s Central Belt.

      So we are looking at a very serious situation indeed.
      .

      So to all you No voters out there – enjoy your comfort while

      you can because it is not going to last very long.

      And the next time you get the chance to vote,

      take no risks whatsoever and

      VOTE for SCOTLAND – YOU CAN’T GO WRONG.

    191. john king says:

      “nearly 63,000 members. Get to 70,000 and we are breathing up Cameron’s trousers.”

      I dont want to be breathing up hisa trousers I want us to be misting up his brass neck with our breath!

    192. Macart says:

      Sam or Mac.

      Name or Job description. 🙂

    193. Muscleguy says:

      @Muttley

      Well technically Darling didn’t say it. Instead he agreed with a statement by an interviewer that this was what the SNP were without missing a beat or objecting in any way. IOW the idea to him was so unremarkable as to be not worth bothering about.

      The banality of evil?

    194. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      During the Night Shift I think a lot of their breaths would be corrosive rather than misty.

    195. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      What are the odds that they try to engineer a privatisation of Scottish Water to feed the fracking in England.

      They have water shortages down there and we have loads of good clean stuff.

      Nice little earner.

    196. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      How’s wee Tommy’s Party doing?

      More than two yet?

      OK, maybe four, Himslf, Andrew Neil, Dianne Abbot and that half Spanish,half Scottish guy who own a big hot dog franchise in the centre of Chicago?

      http://www.portillos.com

    197. HandandShrimp says:

      I have noticed on various fora that No advocates suggest the Yes parties obtaining lots of new members is a bad thing for the Yes parties. Apparently the sign of a real party that connects with the people is that no one wants to be a member…or something 🙂

      Bit like how having oil is really bad for an economy. 🙂

    198. Mealer says:

      Celebrity endorsement didn’t make a big difference,but hard work by a very few celebrities did.Big thanks to Dougie McLean.

    199. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      ASti Spumanti

      is really written Asti Spuewwww Manti

    200. EphemeralDeception says:

      @Manandboy. While that is indeed a serious issue the responsibility for the envirnment and waste and planning permission all rests within Scotland. So just as we blocked New Nuclear build we can block this too, as long as a majority of the Scottish Parliament agrees.

      I would also be worried about possible inshore fracking since with horizontal drilling they can come inland.

    201. Wee Alex says:

      Morning call discussing next referendum.

      Starting point was BBC misrepresenting what was said by Nicola Sturgeon. No surprise ther. Thankfully picked up by caller 45 minutes into show.

      No voters are in denial about lies and misinformation affecting result. Some of them accept non delivery is a reason for 2nd referendum.

    202. westie7 says:

      @EphemeralDeception
      Was there not something about clawing back and re-reserving planning in the Scotland Act?

    203. Flower of Scotland says:

      You know why there are so many trolls coming on to this site, don’t you. Wings, Bella, Newsnet has severely upset the British State! Far too much TRUE information here that it interferes with their plans to treat us like mushrooms. Keep us in the dark and feed us shit!

      So, you know what to do! Ignore them, and I mean everyone ignore them or block them from the site. Why can’t you just ignore them!!

      I’ve been feeling raw and emotional, maybe bitter at times too, but I’ve been on here reading the comments. Come on guys , help Stu, IGNORE them. Wings is not going to be very attractive if people continually bicker. Stick to the job in hand!

    204. Craig P says:

      Socrates MacSporran says:

      As a fully-engaged member of the Scottish rugby community, can I ask some of the posters on here to, lay-off.

      I have no doubts some of the public school-educated Scottish players of today voted No, I also know some of them voted Yes, it’s a personal thing.

      I am also involved in egg-chasing (at a social level, nowhere near international) and can confirm that outside of the private schools, rugby is not the bastion of unionism some assume.

    205. Nana Smith says:

      @Flower of Scotland

      So agree with your post. Yesterday was really dire on here.

    206. Fred says:

      A very fair response to the Andy Murray furore by Kevin Ferrie in the Herald Sport this morning.

    207. Dorothy Devine says:

      Bugger, please don’t change I just love writing Bugger with a capital!

      Party animals , how about the Brodick hotel on Arran , I believe it does good deals but since the season is nearly at an end there should be good hotels slap in the middle of Scotland doing the same.

      Macart , John , neither cooking sherry nor Asti please – a bit of class and lets support Cairn O’Mohr wines and the Arran brewery or another of the small SCOTTISH brewers.

    208. john king says:

      Nana Sith @ 09.52

      Well all I can say is I sat and watched and kept quiet, I didnt feel comfortable with the continuous attacks on Doug and Morag, I just dont get why a good guy like Calgacus would go off on one like that, it has no purpose or value.

      Come back Calgacus we need you!

    209. Chris Baxter says:

      Craig P

      I am also involved in egg-chasing (at a social level, nowhere near international) and can confirm that outside of the private schools, rugby is not the bastion of unionism some assume.

      My following comment is genuine and not intended to provoke.

      I don’t follow rugby, and don’t really have much interest in it. My perception though is that rugby in Scotland is class-oriented to a high degree, so when you say “outside of the private schools”, how much does that leave?

      And if there were to be a poll conducted on rugby players and their voting choice, what do you think would be the Yes-No ratio? Obviously we don’t and won’t have that information, but in your honest opinion, would you suggest 50-50? Or 55-45? Or higher in favour of the No?

    210. Robert Kerr says:

      When shall we see the bookies offering odds for ermine-isation of the key players?

      Something for the winger insomniacs to ponder.

      Now I am off-line.

      For the britnats I quote a part of a song we sang at primary school.

      “Tremble false whigs in the midst of your glee, you’ve no seen the last……

    211. OT: What the hell is this anyone?


      Hold up!
      You’re being rate-limited!
      For locations where many people share the same IP address (e.g., corporations and conferences), our rate limits may be too strict. If you believe you are using Twitter normally, please let us know

      Take me Home!

    212. OT: What the hell is this anyone?


      Hold up!
      You’re being rate-limited!
      For locations where many people share the same IP address (e.g., corporations and conferences), our rate limits may be too strict. If you believe you are using Twitter normally, please let us know

      Take me Home!

    213. G H Graham says:

      The point here is surely nothing to do with Andy Murray but everything to do with the wholly unreliabale, contradictory & one sided nature of the media.

      Don’t forget that almost none of it is owned in Scotland. We really do live in an oddball society where our news, current affairs & major sporting broadcasting is owned & managed by people & agencies that aren’t even based here.

      Thus, almost the entire Commonwealth Games became a “British” event in which many references to Scottishness & Scottish cultural references were obscured, overwhelmed or obliterated.

      Scots have become so used to this pervasive propaganda, that to many, it feels rather normal & agreeable such that when the minority do complain, they are considered radicals & agitators.

      It is simply unreasonable to deny that we live in a state which is subjected to hourly doses of British propaganda with the overriding, singular objective of maintaining the London Establishment at the centre of our economic, knowledge & power base.

    214. john king says:

      Sith?
      what?

      Like this I mean?
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3Cdj3GpobM

      Sorry Nana

    215. Chris Baxter says:

      Murray has made a massive rod for his own back. The support (which was often lukewarm at Wimbledon, apart from the Final in 2013) will be split next summer, and I suspect there will be many supporting whoever he plays.

      Which is more than fine, by me. Playing against an antagonistic crowd usually galvanises him anyway. And it will help more Scots to realise that the Scots and English aren’t on the same team.

      Antipathy between the two countries is growing. Let it continue.

    216. john king says:

      What GH Graham says!

    217. David says:

      HandandShrimp says:
      25 September, 2014 at 9:26 am
      I have noticed on various fora that No advocates suggest the Yes parties obtaining lots of new members is a bad thing for the Yes parties. Apparently the sign of a real party that connects with the people is that no one wants to be a member…or something 🙂

      Bit like how having oil is really bad for an economy. 🙂

      This gave me my first LOL of the morning. So very true.

    218. Nana Smith says:

      @john king

      Yes John, I hope Calgacus didn’t mean what he said about leaving Wings.

      Sith? Don’t worry my hubby is a Jedi Knight or so he thinks!

    219. Chris Baxter says:

      G H Graham

      It is simply unreasonable to deny that we live in a state which is subjected to hourly doses of British propaganda with the overriding, singular objective of maintaining the London Establishment at the centre of our economic, knowledge & power base.

      That’s a fact. It’s gone far beyond perception.

      Someone else further up the page commented on the coverage of Isis/Iraq etc, and that we can’t trust what the BBC says. I’ve thought that for ages (over Ukraine, Middle East et al) and I’m now just looking for signs that an invasion is imminent.

      The BBC’s agenda – not just on the referendum, but on loads of topics – is covert to the lazy and ignorant, but very clear once your eyes have been opened.

      It also makes me wonder just how long they’ve been agenda-driven. I expect that’s been forever, but just how determined that are now compared to say the 1980s, I’ve no idea.

      The most effective kind of propaganda.

    220. David says:

      manandboy@9:12

      Excellent post. This is the kind of thing im talking about that everyone with social media needs to be posting.

      All you need is a few words with the link next to it to everyone you know.

      So long as we keep making people aware of whats happening then we are winning. Thats all there is to it.

      A big thank you to the guys in Westminster for keeping Scottish Independence alive and kicking 🙂

    221. Robert Peffers says:

      @Lollysmum says: 24 September, 2014 at 11:16 pm:

      “Sorry -been a long day. Meant to say in my post above that I was rooting for YES to win.”

      Well, Lollysmum, we around these parts are not blind to the fact that most areas of England out with the M25, or north of the Watford Gap, are in exactly the same, put upon place, as we are in Scotland.

      In fact if the London designated English, “Regions” were to awake to the fact that they too are second class UK citizens and those in Wales realised that this Devolution set-up with 533 elected UK members of Parliament are also unelected members of the Country of England parliament in a de facto Parliament of the country of England who all toe the London line.

      The non-London English people deserve to be properly represented in a real, elected, parliament of England that is not full of London-centric members wearing two hats. Westminster must either return to being the proper United Kingdom parliament set-up by the Treaty of Union or the unelected de facto Parliament of England needs to get to hell out of the UK parliament.

      Alternatively we Scots will indeed legally end it by disuniting the bipartite United Kingdom parliament in which Scotland has ceased to be a kingdom and is treated as a subservient country by the de facto parliament of England at Westminster.

    222. john king says:

      Chris Baxter says
      “Antipathy between the two countries is growing. Let it continue.”

      Not at all cool dude, that plays straight into the hands of the people who describe us as “blood and soil nationalists”

      So next we’ll have elderly people in their motorhomes being assaulted or worse because they have a sco saltire plate on their camper while on holiday in England or vice versa?

      We must NOT allow ourselves to be pulled into that dark abyss of hatred!

      We’re better than that, there are some on the unionist side who so wish we weren’t

    223. Betty Boop says:

      @ Schrodingers cat, 7:18am

      The meaning of Devo Max has been hi jacked by MSM
      we should talk about Full Fiscal Autonomy instead

      Seems a good starting point.

    224. HandandShrimp says:

      FoS

      Absolutely agree, WoS strength was the way it held the media to account and by God the journalists hated this site.

      Of course there is justifiable anger at the way the vote went particularly in manner that it went and the way the issues were presented in the media. We also knew that fighting the establishment was going to be tough and that we had an uphill battle on our hand. We fought well and came within a 200,000 voters swinging our way.

      The backlash following the vote has not gone Yes’ way though. The opposite is true and it is the No parties that are under pressure. We need to close ranks now and fight together to build on that good will towards the Yes side to ensure that we get the very best for Scotland.

      Do not let the trolls cause division and turn friend against friend. The lying journalists are still out there and Labour is rattled by the reaction to their love-in with the Tories. The lies and smears will continue against the Yes parties and we need to counter those with a clear mind and single purpose.

    225. gillie says:

      So there was postal vote illegality.

    226. Macart says:

      FWIW I don’t care who voted no, only the why. I only care that come round two they vote YES.

      More importantly, that segment of the no vote who voted out of fear for their pensions or livelihoods. The number of comments out there of those who regretted voting no will grow as the enormity of what’s already started begins to sink in. In the last week we’ve seen a declaration of intent to slash the Scottish block grant and reconfigure the Barnett formula. We’ve seen an intent to take military action tabled and we’ve seen devo whatever’s timetable put on hold.

      IN ONE BLOODY WEEK!

      But also in this same week, we’ve seen the most remarkable bounce back in Scottish political history. The genie is out of the bottle and its not going back in. The unionist parties are on notice and the yes voting public have made their intent quite clear by the massive membership surges into pro independence parties.

      The next few years are going to be desperately hard on Scotland and we need to win the soft no vote. The true enemies of democracy and self determination remain the same and they are the unionist parties led by Labour in Scotland and their pet media.

    227. BigSteveChisholm says:

      10.20am.

      Things I’ve done today so far.

      1. Joined the SNP (my partner joined the Greens, I must admit I was torn so the Greens will get the occasional donation too)

      2. Sent a small donation to Common Weal and bought a couple of extra copies of the CW book to give to friends

      3. Wrote to my MP to urge he votes against bombing in Syria – we need to undermine the hawks in WM, bombing isn’t going to help anyone.

      4. Drafted another letter to my MP for tomorrow. The one reminding him of his party’s commitment to deliver Devo-Max to Scotland asap. This is going to be a once-a-week letter so I want to get the wording right!

      5. Updated my ad blockers (Ghostery, Noscript) and deleted bookmarks to all the NO supporting news sites I could think of. Deny them clicks, deny them ad revenue.

      I wish I could say 6) Cancelled BBC license and 7) cancelled subs to No supporting papers but I did all that earlier in the year.

      All in all, a good start.

    228. Macart says:

      @JK

      I agree.

      They want us to be the hate filled ‘Nats’ they have so loved to portray in the meeja. I won’t give them the satisfaction. That and I don’t really do hating very well. 🙂

    229. Nana Smith says:

      INDEPENDENT COUNCILLOR JOINS SNP IN ARGYLL AND BUTE

      “MANDATE FOR CHANGE” ONLY POSSIBLE WITH SNP

      The SNP is today welcoming news that a prominent councillor in Argyll and Bute has joined the SNP and applied to join the SNP council group after resigning from the Lib Dem / Tory / Independent council administration.

      Councillor Iain Angus MacDonald announced his decision and said:

      “I was elected on the back of a mandate for change as an independent councillor, and like many other like-minded people over the last few days consider that the best chance of achieving this is by joining a party that is welcoming many other all party members aboard who believe the only way to effect meaningful change is by establishing an independent Scotland.”

      Michael Russell, SNP MSP for Argyll and Bute, said:

      “I am delighted to welcome Iain Angus MacDonald into the SNP. His principled stance over the past two years during a time of unprecedented instability in the Council has been impressive and secured his place as a wise and hard-working local representative.

      “The further melt down of the unprincipled and chaotic Liberal / Tory pact has placed several good independent councillors in a quandary and I hope Iain Angus and others can help to create a new dynamic over time, reclaiming the Council from the present power and decision making vacuum and giving it back to local residents.”

      Local SNP Council Group Leader Sandy Taylor added:

      “I look forward to Iain Angus joining the SNP Council Group. He has demonstrated a commitment to change which is most especially welcome at this time. Iain is ambitious for his community, Oban, Lorn and the Isles, as the SNP Group are for Argyll and Bute. These are exciting times, post-referendum, no better time for much needed change in how we work and relate to the communities of Argyll and Bute.”

    230. Nana Smith says:

      Macart says “They want us to be the hate filled ‘Nats’ they have so loved to portray in the meeja”

      So true Macart, yet its the same media who are ramping up the hatred for immigrants & all things EU related.

      A lot of folks can see through their agenda but sadly many won’t or don’t want to. Some are only to happy to blame someone else for their own ignorance.

    231. Robert Peffers says:

      Murray, and I mean the whole Murray family, are Scottish heros.

      Anyone at the centre of a WorldWide sport that has the bravery to speak out for their own wee county knowing that almost every non-Scot, and the English in particular, will be hovering above them life a swarm of angry bees ready to attack, is a hero in my book.

      Gawn yersels the heroic Murrays.

      Remember that Andy has started up a business in Scotland but could have done so in any country and the family has started a Scottish Tennis Academy. All of which is suppoting Scotland in a very real way.

    232. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      H & Shrimp

      I posted this earlier and it now seems to have disappeared.

      A propos the hijacking of Devo Max. IT was then and is now indefinite and, I agree, FFA should be our starting place,

      Cameron et al are taking the Humpty Dumpty position

      “When I use a word,’ Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, ‘it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.””

    233. No no no...Yes says:

      Once again the MSM exposed as biased against anything and anyone that shows their Scottishness. We can’t stop them but we can hit them where it hurts, in their pockets and their reputation. During the campaign I was surprised as to how many people of all ages were aware of the bias, but bought the hard copy and ignored the TV media bias anyway. Don”t buy or click, simples.
      I hope Prof Robertson or someone else will report on the main part of the campaign regarding BBC coverage and it gets discussed at Holyrood.

      HandandShrimp 9:08am Political Party Membership

      After I had recovered from the shock of the result I asked myself, “Which party is going to work hardest on behalf of the Scottish people in the General Election in 2015 and also to ensure that the pledge is fully examined, debated and delivered?”

      I decided that only the SNP can deliver for the people of Scotland at Westminster.
      Labour( aka Red Tories)- One Nation UK
      Conservatives- doubtful if they will get even 1 MP
      GreenParty- won’t get a Scottish seat

      On that analysis I decided to join the SNP. As always it is your choice!

    234. bob sinclair says:

      Apologies if anyone has posted this link already, but developments afoot re PV sampling:

      http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/police-probe-claim-no-campaign-viewed-postal-votes-1-3552492

    235. JET JOCKEY says:

      I have not had time to read all the posts and topics due to work, but I saw Andrew Neil on Sunday had all the figures on the income revenue from North Sea oil, yet prior to the Referendum that income was to my knowledge never mentioned ,!!!. Also a friend did a small poll in a rural village west of Aberdeen to see how many voters had read the Macrone Report , The answer none.

    236. Morag says:

      John, Calgacus has returned this morning and apologised. He was very gracious.

    237. Macart says:

      @Nana

      It was always this way Nana. For some education will be a long hard process, but they’ll come round as many others already have. Its going to be a bitter wait for that next shot and its going to be littered with broken promises, fiscal hardship and deprivation increasing exponentially. They’ll be made to see only one group of people attempting to act as a buffer against this wave.

      Sometimes people have to be brought up to the coal face before they see the result of their decisions.

    238. Betty Boop says:

      @ manandboy, 9:12am

      Re Fracking

      You know the benefits:
      1. The water table gets badly polluted
      2. The ground under your home becomes unstable
      3. The environment is wrecked by huge numbers of water carrying trucks often using roads built for tractors
      3. A National Asset is effectively stolen for the benefit of the fracking companies and friends of the Tories living in London.
      4. Oh – and the value of your property collapses.
      5. All revenues and profits go to London or elsewhere.

      Add to that:

      6. Home insurance invalidated/ totally unavailable.

      The things folk wish for, eh?

    239. chalks says:

      I don’t think we’ll be waiting that long, less than 10 years in my opinion.

      The indyref was the starting gun on the people of scotland realising we don’t have to be in the union.

      Look at the political events that are coming.

    240. YESGUY says:

      John King

      Thanks for the pick me up John. I have been down in the dumps and still am a wee bit , and the last topic was a bummer with everyone arguing . You , as usual put a smile back on. Thanks pal.

      Flower of Scotland . I hear you and agree. Time to get back to normal. Wings is a fun site. And we always ignore trolls. Thats the Wings Way.

      Thepnr.

      Hi Alex. i see you dropped the nom de plume. Good to see you online pal. Missed your comments big time.

      Morag and Nana. You have my respect ladies. Your patience is staggering . Well done xx.

      Oh and i like Andy Murry. he is a YESSER that’s fine be me.

      Now how do we go about winning indi seats at the next GE. it’s only 6 months away. That’s a bit of a tight run. We need to sort out tactics and not waste votes on No hopers and get behind each candidate regardless of party.

      If i don’t do something i’ll just get depressed.

    241. Betty Boop says:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fke1m1SY1vc
      Youtube “The Truth about the Dash for Gas”, Part 1

      Worth watching.

    242. galamcennalath says:

      Why all the prevarication from the Unionists on getting their promise of DevoMax rolling?

      Seems simple to me. A new Scotland Act devolving everything but foreign affair, defence, security, maybe vehicle licensing. Little scope for long discussions. Get it drafted and give us a referendum on whether we accept it.

      Naw probs. all done and dusted by Christmas.

    243. ronnie anderson says:

      @Bugger the Panda 08.49. Oh goody good ave goat a Caravan I see, awe ah need noo is a Car tae tow it.

    244. bunter says:

      O/T

      I see Bateman has big plans, teaming up with Newsnet and others.

      Very interesting!

    245. Ian Brotherhood says:

      So, this coming Saturday, Yes groups across Scotland get together again, George Square etc? That’s what I’ve heard, but haven’t seen anything definite – anyone confirm?

    246. RMAC says:

      Manandboys post re Fracking is the kind of thing that will convert current No’s to Yes, if they are going to see the biggest investment of their life collapse then they may think an independent Scotland that doesn’t do Fracking is a very good alternative to the the better together BS. It would also affect the way they vote at the GE next year if they think their usual candidate can’t be trusted to deliver on their property being fracked. Does anyone know exactly which areas are of specific interest to Ineos for exploration?

    247. Capella says:

      The radio is silent in our house now. So that’s a blessing. Once Derek Bateman gets his indymedia going then I’ll tune into that, till then it’s Sunday Herald only plus Alt news sites online, none of which specialise in Scottish news but then neither does the BBC.
      I hope the YES alliance will organise meetings to coincide with the dates BT have specified for their timetable. I’d look forward to Halloween, St Andrews night, and Burns night with great anticipation.
      For noise I put on my vast collection of music. Current favourite is The Incredible String Band original album series (1960s) World music before the term was invented.
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-0EwQQq1mA

    248. MajorBloodnok says:

      Someone was talking about printing and distributing a YES newspaper (again) the other night, but there are credibility issues with a new paper (not to mention distribution).

      Answer seems to be to buy the Scotsman and adapt it because it’s recognizable and can be found everywhere. And it’s the way to subvert the MSM, which was one of the big stumbling blocks for the yes campaign.

      So, I wonder if the Weirs would be up for getting into the newspaper business, and of course Stu could be editor. That’d be fun.

    249. galamcennalath says:

      If anyone isn’t aware of it, it is worth considering that New Zealand has no independence date. It just drifted into it. The world has changed, of course, but this is one possibility for Scotland. We just get more and more powers until, within the context of the EU we become a legal nation state.

      http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independence_of_New_Zealand

    250. ronnie anderson says:

      @ Calcagus Your to good a Winger to lose John, we,re all uptight at this time. Dont engadge the Trolls people, I have to laugh when I,m called a Troll on here,still attacking Me leaves other Wingers alown, its watter aff a ducks back tae me.

    251. Nana Smith says:

      https://twitter.com/Independent_SCO

      THE EGG MAN COMETH?

      – permanent demo at Holyrood every Thursday FMQs?

    252. Macart says:

      @Bunter

      SNAP! 😀

    253. nigel says:

      Grouse beater
      “If there’s one thing the Referendum proved it was how much loathing there is by sour English for Scots”

      It also proved to me how much loathing there is by sour Scots who laugh at the very idea of their own countrymen looking after their own affairs…………………

    254. EphemeralDeception says:

      @Westie7 The only changes acted are those in the 2012 Scotland Act which includes the feeble but potentially useful “Guaranteed Scottish representation in the BBC and Crown Estate.”

      Things have moved on since then. While the UK will never devolve broadcasting completely. I think the Scottish government can argue to make the BBC in Scotland accountable to the Scottish Government and the management team of the BBC as part of the Devo next agreement.

      ______

      @The panda. We certainly need to push for FFA and Devo max (all except Military/F. affairs/ Macro economic control). However I have been thinking about this and what is most important is administrative control over all our revenue collection and accounting of revenue and spending to be done via the Scottish Gov and Audit Scotland.

      The Scotland act 2012 already created the quango Revenue Scotland responsible for devolved tax collection. This department can be made responsible for the collection of all taxes even those we do not set. This allows us to effectively simplify the process, increase transparency and can be argued makes us responsible and accountable for the home rule powers. That last point makes it more difficult for the British politicians in Scotland to argue against it and the back bencher’s in England.

      It doesn’t even have to include Oil revenue because as soon as we account for everything else it is easy to identify the oil revenues on top. We would still push to get oil included but that will be argued as a UK resource so I cant see that happening.

    255. Nana Smith says:

      @MajorBloodnok

      I think the newspaper being planned is called Caledonian?

      Anyway re distribution, if all Yes groups were to accept bundles I don’t think it would be too difficult for members to deliver them to households in their areas.

      I would certainly pop them through the doors round my way.

    256. Betty Boop says:

      @ ronnie Anderson, 11.17am

      Well said, Ronnie!

      Our local Yes group had dinner together last night in a local hostelry followed by a an energising meeting (we’re like the Duracell bunnies, rarin’ to go).

      I think the Wingers could do with another wee gathering somewhere 🙂

    257. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      MajorBloodnok

      I am of the opinion that to make a small fortune out of the newspaper business you have to start with a big one.

      It is not the cost of buying the rag, it is the running costs and the need to get enough advertisers to pay for the print run, never mind the journalists and their bar bills.

      A better buy, would be the Sunday Herald. All week to prepare the copy and sub in the printing from the Herald or another printer?

    258. Craig P says:

      Chris Baxter

      when you say “outside of the private schools”, how much does that leave?

      A fair point! I can’t speak for other teams but to my surprise my own team is just marginally no. If you then didn’t count the products of private education, it would be a slim majority for yes.

      Could be we are not very representative of course.

    259. Craig P says:

      Andy Murray’s favourite sport away from tennis is boxing. He must be aware of Muhammed Ali and his involvement in politics. I think Murray can use Ali as an example and will be strong enough to take whatever is thrown at him.

    260. Macart says:

      @Nana

      Well they have a potential 1.6 mil readership.

      That’s a fair bit of incentive for any business. 😉

    261. Nana Smith says:

      @Macart

      Exactly, and what better way to start than making use of ‘footsoldiers’

      Saves money and allows us to feel we are working towards a better Scotland. Oh and another plus

      ‘We might get fit doing our bit’

    262. ronnie anderson says:

      Re fracking overyone needs to keep a close eye on there local press ie Planning Notifications & object to any & all applications.

    263. STARLAW says:

      The General Election must be our next target, this will be won by either Tories or Labour,preferably labour, and will be followed by a budget attacking yet again the poorest members of our society. . . Then comes the Scottish parliament election and hopefully a Slab wipeout. This is where we must set our sights

    264. Macart says:

      @Nana

      Oh wait… fit? 😀

    265. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      Nana Smith

      The sloganeer?

    266. Chic McGregor says:

      Ian

      I thought there was one at the Scottish Parliament on Saturday? We’ve marked it down to go. Have we got that wrong?

    267. Baheid says:

      Ian B

      Rally at Castle Gate, Aberdeen, Sunday 12 o’clock is the only one that I know of.

    268. OneScot says:

      Given that the now disappearing ‘Vow’ which was promised after voting had started as a result of the No camp having access to the numbers of Yes and No postal votes, surely the validity of the referendum is brought into question.

      Clearly this inside information was used to move the goal posts to bribe the voters while voting was taking place. It would be difficult for anyone to claim that this game changing offer put forward by the Unionists did not have a massive outcome on the result.

      The vote is clearly corrupt, how can it not be.

    269. YESGUY says:

      Betty Boop

      I am up for another Wings meet. Edinburgh would be nice till i get some transport sorted. Really enjoyed the last one. There are some fantastic people here on Wings. Everyone should meet up at least twice a year. To keep the spirits up and get encouragement and advice from friends.

      Great news with Derek Bateman too . looks like things are picking up.

      calgacus.

      Hope your ok buddy. everyone gets het up at times. glad your not leaving us. You would need a referendum on that first. And be warned you might not be able to have that voice on the big internet stage and yer local shop will move to Liverpool. Theres every chance your lighter will run out of gas and you canny use ours cos it’s too much for you And we deal with the postal votes so …..

      you’ll be staying .

    270. Jim McIntosh says:

      A Sunday newspaper could be the starting point. ‘The Caledonian’ sounds like good name. With a majority of Scottish stories, debunking what had been said in the other MSM rags from the previous week and a good Scottish sport section, including the Highland League would be great. I think it would be a goer.

      As someone else mentioned there are 1.6 million of us. That has to be at least 300,000 households. Pick up 20% of that and surely it’s viable.

      We managed to get £100,000 in a couple of weeks for Stu and Wings, so I’m sure we could do the same to get this off the ground.

    271. Vince says:

      So many thoughts running through my head these days about so many Indy topics. With regards to rugby, shouldn’t have been surprised by the response of old rugby stars because of their private school background. However, we shouldn’t disown rugby. Rugby is one of the few sports where we approach world class and as a result gives Scotland a sporting credibility while keeping the name of Scotland in the world’s eye. Instead of walking away from it the Scottish Government should be working hard at trying to develop this sport in state schools thus helping to embellish the brand. I believe AS threw his weight behind youth golf, so it can be done. Anyway, on a lighter note it will be amusing to here some of the no voting element in a rugby crowd singing for us to be a nation again.

    272. fred blogger says:

      https://www.facebook.com/pages/Rally-for-a-Revote/1529904533911151?ref=stream&hc_location=timeline
      Rally for a Revote
      are there grounds for a revote i have no clear idea atm, but i admit those grounds might emerge.
      to me the point is to let feelings be known that we are not going home.
      i am disgusted with a system that is set up to plunder the energy and the capital of the poor.

    273. I'veNeverSeenBraveheart says:

      I’ve been thinking about this whole media thing. The problem is, we all know it’s biased and does not give a fair voice to the Yes side, but most No voters I know do not see it like that. Even sceptical people like my mother, still think that “it’s the BBC”, therefore can be trusted.

      It’s all very well to launch new papers, websites, internet stuff – the problem is they are preaching to the converted. The majority of people, the majority of No voters, still read & listen to traditional media. All these new sites will be seen as a minority, niche voice for the Yessers. We need to get our opinions into the mainstream if we are to have any chance of converting Nos, and other than the Sunday Herald and a few rare instances in the Guardian etc, I don’t see how we do that…

    274. fred blogger says:

      p s slight typo to my above post.
      “i am disgusted with a system that is set up to plunder the energy and the capital of the masses.” reads more in tune.

    275. Chic McGregor says:

      Baheid
      There is definitely one at Montrose, but we turned that down cos I thought I had seen an event on FB one for the Parly with over 6000 saying they were going.

      Checked my activities log but must have forgotten to click on the ‘going’ button.

    276. Macart says:

      @INSBH

      1.6 million potential customers. That’s a lot of voices and a lot of income, which in turn will buy a lot of attention.

      We need a bigger cross platform media voice and it has to start somewhere. There’s a lot of people out there unrepresented, who have cancelled subscriptions to the traditional media. Let’s put that money to work and make some noise.

    277. desimond says:

      Dont really understand the Derek Bateman and Newsnet thing.
      I accept its not my cup of tea but the whole “become the media” aspiration has severe limitations in both range and impact.

      The problem is the BBC. First point is getting all YES friendly parties to have a manifesto promise to “Establish a Scottish Broadcasting Service answerable to the Scottish Government”.

      Dont just become the media, destroy the media and start afresh.

    278. lochside says:

      I heard Andy’s interview…I wish he had just told the guy that it was none of his business and to go and ask Jakey Rowling how she felt bankrolling a lying campaign against the adopted country that nurtured her, while unemployed, and allowed her make the cash that was used to obstruct our self determination being achieved .

      How do ‘NO’s feel about the vilification of this young sportsman of ours? Have they no pride whatsoever or feelings of patriotic protection towards him and anger at the shameful treatment this man has had to endure?

      Or are they too busy counting their British pounds? I wonder how many of them know that the first reading of the Conscription bill has begun in the Commons (unreported by the media)…..more Scottish cannon fodder required.

    279. ronnie anderson says:

      @Nana Smith. We didnt do to shabby on distabution of the WBB & there,s 1.6 mil potential readership for starters WE can do this all we need is the material to feed the grassroots.

    280. Flower of Scotland says:

      There is a YES rally at the Scottish Parly on Sat.12 noon! I’m going!

    281. Chris Baxter says:

      john king

      Not at all cool dude, that plays straight into the hands of the people who describe us as “blood and soil nationalists”

      Not really.

      Besides, what do you think is more likely to boost Scottish independence?

      Do you think the very good performance of TeamGB was good for Scottish independence?

      English people (or rather people living in England) believing that they subsidise Scotland will help the cause for Scottish independence. It compels their MPs to verbalise discontent, which then is published in the media, which then in turn shows Scotland that we’re not actually Better Together.

      The youtube clip of clowns like Richard Madeley slagging off Scotland helps.

      When push comes to shove – and the push is becoming a shove, the harder people have to work – people tend to look more locally, and to what directly affects them.

      All this “oh, Scotland, people don’t leave the good left-leaning English folk to the horrible Tories” doesn’t wash. Scotland can’t help them. Scotland can help the people in Scotland who are being pummelled by the horrible Tories. And if that means England being sick to the back teeth of hearing nonsense about Scots, then so be it.

      The relationship has soured, make no mistake. Only when the two countries are separate of this political union will they be able to make up.

    282. Flower of Scotland says:

      Rally is on the 27th , 12 noon, at the Scottish Parly to make that clear!

    283. liz says:

      @IveNeverSeenBraveheart – agree with what you say re media. We have to get control of BBC Scotland news.

      I think we might be in a stronger position than we think, the negotiating team have got a lot going for them; the signed pledge, Jackie Burd – let’s call it devo max, Broon going on about federalism, 25% of folk voting No said it was to get more powers and that NS has not ruled out another referendum.

      I don’t think Dave would want another ref especially since we have now found out about, freezing of child benefit, removal of heating allowance etc.

      You are right about folk still believing the BBC as the ‘new’ technology getting used in the oil industry is approx 2 years old and someone on twitter was saying their mates believed it was new – sent him a ref to WoS video on the Clair field which proved we knew about it in August.

      If Sir Ian Wood didn’t know can he still be called an expert?

    284. Iain says:

      @desimond

      “Dont just become the media, destroy the media and start afresh.”

      I think what they are proposing is to set up an alternative media, which can hopefully rise up to be a creditable competitor to what we are stuck with now.

      With the best will in the world I don’t think it shall be possible to destroy the media, particularly the BBC. We have no control over these people and that was demonstrated very clearly during the campaign. I do not disagree with your view I just don’t think it is feasible to do this through same old channels. Any Yes leaning political parties shall just be ignored as has always been the case.

      We need to build from within and this has to be one of the ways. I hope they can do a good job as I am desperate for access to media (both national and international comment) that is not filtered through the Unionist viewpoint.

    285. Labour and Tories clash on Daily Politics – Labour planning to tax pensions. Pay attention people of Scotland.

    286. desimond says:

      @Iain

      I didnt say it would be easy but alternative media is not going to sort the principal issue of No friendly people believing the BBC.

      If we have enough YES parties holding a balance of power at Westminster, then we have the power to remove the BBC bias from Scotland in its present state.

      Its a big If/Wish granted, but we sometimes need big and bold to match up against the Establishment.

    287. Nana Smith says:

      @ronnie anderson

      Absolutely Ronnie, we can do this. With the help of a good sturdy pair of boots, the kickass kind!

    288. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      Liz

      Control over broadcasting is one thing they will never give up.

      That is how they “won” the referendum and manage the unwashed.

    289. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      Ian, Desimond et al

      We need a trip to Barcelona to see how the Catalans do it and then go across to Euskadi to see how the Basques do it.

    290. fred blogger says:

      SATURDAY 27TH SEPTEMBER

      10AM
      West Dunbartonshire – Dumbarton Castle (Rally for a Revote)

      12PM
      Glasgow – George Square (Rally for a Revote)

      1PM
      Aberdeen – Castlegate (Rally for a Revote)
      Inverness – High Street (Rally for a Revote)

      SUNDAY 28TH SEPTEMBER

      12PM
      Aberdeen – St Nicholas Centre (Rally for a Revote)

      1PM
      Edinburgh – Scottish Parliament/Holyrood (Rally for a Revote) – Poster event.(Admin Hosted)
      Glasgow – George Square (“We Are Still Here”)
      Inverness – High Street (Rally for a Revote)
      https://www.facebook.com/pages/Rally-for-a-Revote/1529904533911151?ref=stream&hc_location=timeline

    291. desimond says:

      @BTP

      Sounds like a plan, lets put the ‘Awrite Pal’ in paella!

    292. saporian says:

      @I’veNeverSeenBraveheart
      Exactly, any new start newspaper will be preaching to the already converted. We need to use the existing papers and unfortunately that means targeted ads in unionist papers which will be costly, but it is the only way.

    293. chalks says:

      Why on earth is there rallies for revotes?

      Jesus christ, embarassing stuff.

    294. Calgacus says:

      Thanks everyone for your kind messages. You are all truly family to me.

    295. Andy-B says:

      I think Andy Murray thought that YES were going to win, and he wanted to show his support for them, unfortunately we lost, and I think Andy Murray felt a bit vulnerable, to the media

    296. Capella says:

      I wold prefer a Saturday news digest type of paper. I used to like the guardian but that’s now banned. Why compete with the one newspaper that has supported Independnece?

    297. OneScot says:

      Because the vote is corrupt.

    298. ilyana says:

      BBC is the state broadcaster and they are unlikely to hand control of it over to the peasants anytime soon. So do we say – The MSN is too powerful for us we are helpless, lets just sit round and wring our hands?

      The 45% and probably the 14% who voted on the basis of increased powers, does not a minority niche market make.

      To generalise a national consciousness bases upon your granny reading the Sunday Post, does not an argument for apathy make.

      One of the problems I encountered while campaigning was not having a good inclusive media source to point people to. Time and time again I ended up writing various web addresses down for people.

      There are great examples of international alt media out there like salon.com and Democracy Now, if we want something like this for Scotland Lets get some weight behind it and make it so.

    299. schrodingers cat says:

      Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath Combined HE and GE results

      2005 GE
      Labour 24,278 G.Brown Chancellor
      SNP 6,062
      Tories 4308
      Libdem 5450
      58% turnout

      2007 HE notional
      Lab 24240
      SNP 17040
      Torys 6190
      Libdem 7450
      Turnout 45%

      2010GE
      Labour 29,559 G.Brown PM
      SNP 6,550
      Tories 4258
      Libdem 4269
      62% turnout

      2011 HE
      Lab, 24300
      SNP 23400
      Tory 3685
      Libdem 1422
      46% turnout

    300. Jim McIntosh says:

      @saporian

      There’s nothing wrong with preaching to the converted. Using the new paper to forensicaly debunk the MSM stuff means we (the converted) can pass that information on to the non converted by word of mouth, or giving them our newspapers, similar to handing out WBBs.

      Before long hopefully they will join the converted, and start buying their own newspapers. We become the media.

    301. David Wardrope says:

      Noticed while looking for more information on the National Service Bill that there was also a Bill calle the “BBC Privatisation Bill” pending second reading in 2015. Summary seems to say that its to allow provision to privatise BBC and allocate shares to licence payers.

      Not at all sure what it means, or if its been brought up by anyone previously (or if it even has any importance??)

    302. Morag says:

      Rally for a Revote
      are there grounds for a revote i have no clear idea atm, but i admit those grounds might emerge.

      There are no technical grounds for a re-vote. The referendum vote itself was fair, honest and transparent. A few minor fiddles by individuals registering at holiday homes or voting in someon else’s name don’t invalidate that.

      The reason for the outrage is that the No result was achieved because the No campaign lied to the voters on an industrial scale, aided and abetted by the media especially the BBC. You can’t address that by having rallies calling for a re-vote I’m afraid.

    303. heedtracker says:

      BBC are telling Scandinavia that Scotland said no to the risks which is pretty much on par from those idiots. Around the world Scots are mourning which is also not reported by any UKOK media. It’s a crude clamp down but it’s just making it much worse or better, depending…

    304. Capella says:

      There is already a move to end the licence fee for BBC and introduce a subscription method of funding. As any alt TV would also be subscription it would make it easier for people to switch to a Caledonia type service. I would happily subscribe to Derek Bateman’s indymedia as I now no longer have any news at all except what I read here and other online services. Quite liberating actually. I looked at the newspaper front pages online and decided I wouldn’t cross the road to buy any of them. So would welcome a Saturday Caledonia and Sunday Herald with digital radio and TV.

    305. David Stevenson says:

      Advertising in mainstream media is a waste of time, but a start-up newspaper would be a massive gamble. Hard copy sales are way down and established titles are struggling. There are a few miserable failures that I can recall: David Murray’s failed venture and a Labour-oriented title in the mid 80’s. Also the worker buy-out disaster of the Scottish Daily News in the 70s (finally destroyed by the involvement of Robert Maxwell).

      Successful new titles? Anybody know of any?

    306. Vince says:

      The average person does not buy the red tops particularly for their political leaning. They buy them because the general content appeals. e.g. the daily record and the sun – easy to read, a little bit of titillation and decent on sports ( well football anyway). Therefore, for news and entertainment.
      These are the mass circulation papers in Scotland. Given the “right” mix of content a pro indy red top could be introduced after all 50% of the Scottish population voted for independence!! Some ” no” voters might move over to this new paper and others at least at some time read this paper and it would give emotional support to the ” yes” voter. Surely, this has to be one of the methods used to attract new voters.

    307. liz says:

      @Capella. Yes I have read there is a move to get rid of the license fee at the BBC.

      This was from a conservative MP and it could be another reason why the BBC is now so corrupt and is a mouthpiece for any information coming from WM.

      It always was about ‘keeping the nation together’ but it is now more overtly propagandist that at any time in the past IMO.

    308. fred blogger says:

      Morag
      that was only one part of what i said.
      “to me the point is to let feelings be known that we are not going home.
      i am disgusted with a system that is set up to plunder the energy and the capital of the poor.” i amended poor to masses.
      i know that the actual vote was carried out superbly, as i have previously stated, many times.
      yes they did indeed lie and dupe voters.

    309. I'veNeverSeenBraveheart says:

      @Jim McIntosh:
      “There’s nothing wrong with preaching to the converted. Using the new paper to forensicaly debunk the MSM stuff means we (the converted) can pass that information on to the non converted by word of mouth, or giving them our newspapers, similar to handing out WBBs.

      Before long hopefully they will join the converted, and start buying their own newspapers. We become the media.”

      I understand what you’re saying, but the thing is – my elderly parents, even my siblings in their late 40s, who are well educated, “into” politics etc, – I was showing all of them links to here, other blogs etc, the Wee Blue Book etc, all well crafted arguments, the type of journalism that puts the mainstream stuff to shame. However, it didn’t do any good, as I believe it is still seen (wrongly of course!) as a small niche, “those cybernats”, not proper journalism etc etc. People are blind. They are so used to the BBC, the established papers. They are lazy and cannot be bothered to read past the headlines. There is an inherent (unjustified of course) trust in the MSM, which is incredible, especially considering the phone hacking fallout.

      I’m probably not articulating this very well – I’m still exhausted by the whole thing, and probably still in a bit of a depression about it all. However, I think it will be a very long time indeed before we “become the media”. I want to be more positive and hopeful for the future, so hoping someone understands what I’m trying to say and shows me otherwise! 🙂

    310. fred blogger says:

      morag
      another typo from myself.
      “i know the the actual vote count was carried out superbly.”

    311. Morag says:

      Fred, I know. I just feel that this business of explicitly calling for a re-vote is a massive mistake and an own goal. It’s playing right into their hands and makes us look like delusional fruitcakes.

    312. Nana Smith says:

      Malcolm Chisholm now saying Gordon Brown did not promise devo-max & no-one at BT did

      http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/tommy-sheppard-won-t-rule-out-standing-for-snp-1-3552636

    313. fred blogger says:

      Morag
      going on past protests the MSM have hardly bothered to report them!
      but i expect they’ll make it an exception in this case. 🙂
      my point is that people will realize this once they have got together to discuss this, neither must we be led by the MSM reaction atm, or in fact @ anytime.
      we are @ the early stages of resting and regrouping, after what has been a very hard often relentless campaign.
      all needs time to settle in the minds of people, then we can move forward as a movement.
      imv people need to get what has happened expressed.

    314. yesindyref2 says:

      That’s more like it, upbeat, nutty, funny, forward looking.

      Welcome back Wings of Scotland!

    315. cynical lowlander says:

      “Maj is finished”

      Let’s roll out all those saltires for her next visit.

      and ignore princes, dukes and other minions.

    316. Vince says:

      Maj has a role to play in an independent Scotland. She with the help of David Cameron has sullied that role. It’s not just David Cameron who should apologise ( for his indiscretion) but Maj for quite clearly taking sides against 50% of the Scottish population.

    317. liz says:

      @Morag – re looking like fruitcakes – the MSM and BBC will spin it this way but I think all official indy ref folk will be at pains to point out they are not disputing the result.

      We all know the campaign was not fair and should have been illegal for various reasons- mainly the offering of new powers after the purdah which are now disappearing like snow off the dyke.

      The difference this time is we have many well informed folk, we have the SNP. Greens, SSP, RIC, etc who will not let this lie down.

      If they renege on more powers we have to call the indy ref null and void and might have to take it further, the EU? not sure.

    318. Nana Smith says:

      @Heedtracker

      Look who the tories have nominated for the Smith commission

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-29361264#

    319. yesindyref2 says:

      Over not of!

    320. Colin Church says:

      @Nana Smith
      Tomkins… Long grass for that then.

    321. Dorothy Devine says:

      Nana , I find that really disappointing , I had thought he was one of the intelligent honest labour MSPs.
      Perhaps someone should send him a link.

    322. Nana Smith says:

      @Dorothy Devine

      I’m finding it hard to think of any honest labourites right now. If there are any then they should consider jumping ship.

    323. Wee Alex says:

      Nana Smith says:
      25 September, 2014 at 2:22 pm
      Malcolm Chisholm now saying Gordon Brown did not promise devo-max & no-one at BT did.

      ———————-

      Yep, looks like Labour starting to lower expectations already. I’m not on Facebook, Twitter, etc. but if I were I’d be reminding Chisholm and his cohorts what G Brown said on Saturday.

      Unless my ears deceived me, he spoke of “as near a federal system as possible”

      What will be interesting is the outcome of the two by-elections on 9thOctober. UKIP effect will have to be factored in.

      16th October, 1/2 hour adjournment debate in Westminster.

      Can hardly wait!

    324. westie7 says:

      @Nana Smith

      So the LDs with slightly more seats than independents get two muppets in the show and the Indys are not represented.
      Well bugger me if that fairly represents the outcome of last week

    325. Dorothy Devine says:

      Well Mr Chisolm was my last one.

      The Smith commission is looking hideous too.

    326. Nana Smith says:

      Have to agree with Colin Church..Tomkins… Long grass for that then.

      The Smith commission is a sham.

    327. bald eagle says:

      a wee bit o/t sorry

      i have been coming to this site for over a year now and it has taught me loads of things i could never get on my own i soaked up all the information i sat back and let you all educate me about politics i laughed & cried with you all

      yesterday i had to switch off after doug & morag explained about how the counting of votes worked and yet idiots kept saying you are wrong where they there have they ever did anything like that no they havent

      today it looks like people are turning against each other when we should be getting engaged about the next GE in scotland
      there is only six months to go some people said they are leaving this site or words to that effect no doubt they will go to other sites look how far stu has brought us nearly everyday the site kept growing there is great people here teaching us things all the time how many people have said beware they will try and DIVIDE AND BREAK us

      too many times wingers have given advice about trolls and yet the same people engage with them well i will say the same to you
      ignore them if you notice them all you need to say is troll and get back to busting all the lies they throw at the papers where people like myself would have probably accepted them as truth

      i just started using the computer about two years ago and when i heard about wings i thought have a look shit you lot really opened my eyes and my mind so think of the onlookers here that dont comment some have been given a voice for the first time people like the deaf and dumb i should know i recommend them to come here trolls are trying to divide us are you going to let that happen no thought not i dont comment much but what you all say i take it as gospel and read every post by everyone and now i can spot a troll

      sorry about the long post had to get that out

    328. ilyana says:

      A few people have mentioned the BBC Privatisation Bill

      Amusing article from last year about the origins of said bill.

      http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/06/21/tory-mps-ban-burka-death-penalty-queens-speech_n_3477168.html

      The Lords Select Committee on Communications has some interesting publications if (you don’t have a life and) you want to get a feel for what their thinking might be on this.

      http://www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-a-z/lords-select/communications-committee/

    329. Paula Rose says:

      People read the red tops for the footsie? I could write about that!

    330. bookie from hell says:

      Rally for REVOTE will make YESa laughing stock

    331. GrantMacD says:

      That’s been a week from hell. Can’t say I’ve mixed emotions as I’m still angry.

      I think what really irritated was we, the Scots, were facing a financial war which we had already won. All the country needed do was vote YES and Westminsters tune would have changed overnight. In fact, the financial numbers were suggesting the Scottish negotiating team would be in an almost dangerously strong position given the consequences for Sterling if Scotland were not part of a formal currency union.

      All it needed was a YES vote.

    332. Paula Rose says:

      Yes GrantMacD – we know.



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