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Wings Over Scotland

No honour among assassins

Posted on July 31, 2020 by

SNP MSP James Dornan is someone Wings always had a lot of time for, at least until his shameful and central role in the stitch-up of Mark McDonald – an act which was the foundation stone for all of the party’s subsequent chicanery. We can only speculate as to his motivations for doing so, and their connection or otherwise to a certain deranged and ambitious fantasist in his close circle.

But as anyone who’s watched The Usual Suspects (or GoodFellas, or pretty much any classic-era Bond movie) will tell you, the real villains have a nasty habit, once they’ve achieved their goals, of “tidying up” anyone who might link them to their misdeeds – especially if those people don’t fit the ideal of their brave new worlds.

So an old, straight, white, working-class male like James Dornan, who signed the SNP Women’s Pledge, was always likely to find himself propping up a motorway flyover at some point sooner or later, and thus it has proved.

It appears to be a widely-held belief on social media that the intended beneficiary of Dornan’s intended demise is the party’s truly repellent National Women’s Convener, Rhiannon Spear. We have no idea whether that’s true, although if it is it would be a sorry day for both the SNP and (potentially) the Scottish Parliament.

(Spear sits on the NEC that made today’s decisions.)

But Dornan seems intent on putting up rather more of a fight over his backstabbing than the other victim, Joanna Cherry, so it may be a more interesting scenario than it first appears. And while we may be gravely disappointed in some of his actions, there’s no doubt whatsoever who we’d want to come out on top in that fight.

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  1. 31 07 20 20:57

    No honour among assassins | speymouth

107 to “No honour among assassins”

  1. Merkin Scot says:


  2. aulbea1 says:

    Yeah – support James Dornan. But will await further developments via Joanna Cherry in the coming weeks.

  3. Polly says:

    He always seemed a good guy to me. Maybe he believed in the person at the time making that complaint and felt he had to stand by her. Perhaps he felt differently later? Or differently at least of some others. There must have been some good reason for his change of heart in deciding to stand again after saying he was retiring. I hope he does fight and win.

  4. Will the reform bill of the Gender Recognition Act be voted on this term or will it have to wait until next Holyrood parliament,

    if next term i would think Joanna could scupper the reform bill so the misogynists and peodophile enablers deffo don`t want her leading the call for the reform bill to be flushed down the kazzy,

    and sure as hell Speer is for the bill.

  5. Dan Watt says:

    We no longer need unionist parties or their propaganda machines, the SNP are now doing their jobs for them. Scotland will never be independent unless they clean up their act.

  6. Republicofscotland says:

    Sounds like Doran is just another loose end that’s being tied up. Oh how we could do with a SNP in the know whistleblower right now, but Sturgeon and Murrell run such a tight ship on fear, that, that looks very unlikely.

  7. Bob Mack says:

    The night of the long knives . Glad to see James eventually woke up ( no sniggering at the back).

    Running out of Caesars to stab in the back at this rate

  8. dakk says:

    Male, pale,n’stale together then.


  9. Bob Mack says:

    Quote. “Their previous party”. Rather says it all.

  10. Frank Gillougley says:

    Is it just me, or does anyone else think that the party apparatchiks are morphing into what looks like a ‘tragi-comic’ typical soviet-style clique as seen in the film, ‘The Death of Stalin’?

    I have just about well and truly had it, with the whole feckin lot of them.

  11. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Wasn’t Spear already linked with Argyll & Bute?

  12. Tannadice Boy says:

    Well true to form Nicola strikes again. I am intrigued by the deputy Medical Officer position. Who is going to replace the resigned Medical Officer?.
    No contest IMHO?
    Back to Dornan he blocked me on Twitter when he was losing an argument. But having said that he has my support. There are no men in Scotland electorally?.

  13. Heather McLean says:

    Ian Brotherhood says:
    Wasn’t Spear already linked with Argyll & Bute?

    That’s what I heard but methinks she will go wherever they’ll have her and probably thinks Glasgow Cathcart is a better bet

  14. OldPete says:

    Treatment of Joanna Cherry is a disgrace, Robertson is a pompous pratt and the Edinburgh constituency have been ill served by the SNP leadership.
    Forget a new party, the SNP need a better more honourable leadership and we the members need to get rid of some of these dodgy interlopers within our midst.

  15. Robert Graham says:

    christ talk about the night of the long knifes must be something in the air or someone is pulling lots of strings

    Car crash – pushed

    the shop steward – about to be pushed

    Rennie – who gives a duck

    Sitting SNP MPs and MSPs shoogly peg unless the current management or the hidden management approves

    And the members are supposed to hang about until these people get their way , Aye that will be flub a dub right

  16. ClanDonald says:

    One of James Dornan’s staffers is Rosa Zambonini. if you’re on twitter you’ll have heard of her. She’s a fierce trans ally and one of the more outspoken members of the SNP woke club.

    Looks like her pals on the NEC don’t care too much if SHE loses her job, eh? Just more collateral damage on their campaign to re-define women as a sub-set of men.

  17. Pippa Plevin says:

    And when that didn’t fly the NEC have now deemed that the seat he has held for 10 years, Cathcart, is to be a mandatory all-woman shortlist. Maybe a quick Self-ID by James could sort that.. 😉

  18. Astonished says:

    Now there is a definite split in the party(bet chubby brian says nowt). The tiny but very powerful science-deniers and the rest of us.
    I am very sorry to say the First Minister appears to have no intention of dealing with the misogynist tendency. The scales have dropped from my eyes.

    Hell mend them.

  19. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Heather McLean (9.35) –

    Thanks for that.

    ‘methinks she will go wherever they’ll have her’

    Blimey! There’s a word for someone like that…can’t quite remember it…

    This may be a good time to appeal to ex-Wingers who (for all sorts of personal reasons) have bailed out over the past year or so – no-one’s expecting tail-between-the-legs stuff but it’s becoming pretty obvious what side we all have to be on in this particular fight and this is the main platform from which to organise so please, please – with a big Cherry on top! – come back!

  20. FiferJP says:

    Maybe the SNP plan is not to get an Indy majority at the next Scottish Parliament elections.

  21. Athanasius says:

    I’m sure a certain well-known blogger will be along any minute now to explain why the poison that’s running through the veins of the SNP is really nothing to worry about, just a minor irritation which will sort itself out come the glorious day of independence.

  22. robertknight says:

    Can’t wait for the blinkered SNP fan-cub to come on here to claim Doran is a paranoid fantasist and the Wokerati are NOT trying to sieze control of the SNP.

    Independence on the back-burner and a party rotting from within. Oh, but support for Indy (Thanks to Boris and a no-deal Brexit) is at 54%, so all hail Queen Nicola!

    Get me a bucket…

  23. McHaggis69 says:

    The SNP have benefited by a large influx of previous Labour voters, however it is becoming totally clear that has also brought a fair bit of baggage we could seriously have done without.

  24. Normski says:

    Only a sub-set of exec branch members (i.e. typically 3 or 4 people) are allowed access to branch members contact details.

    Either the ones who have been doing the phoning are in the exec of the branch or if not there has been a breach of SNP regulations and possibly GDPR.

  25. Lothianlad says:

    Well stu, much as I loathe his recent actions and backstabbing, I’m with you on this one.

    The way the SNP has morphed into a bunch of careerists, wokists, backstabbers, anti independence and down right nasty vile politicians makes life long independence campaigners sick to the core.

    In my own constituency of midlothian for example, certain branches have been taken over by the careerist sturgeon brigade. New talent ( despite a massive membership) is frozen out. Dissent is futile, and independence, forget it!

    The opportunist current MP, was pete wishart lackey when he lost a 10 000 majority in 2017. Hanging around long enough to see the tide turn in favour of another SNP tsunami last december.

    he worked the delegates and members and got reselected. This , like labour used to do in the past guaranteed a cosy WM career with generous expenses and a gold plated pension.

    The cost of this is Independence! Why, because he, like so many of his ilk are careerist politicians, larnyard wearers who ponse around conference with their little entourage limeliting for the cameras whilst delivering zilch for indy.

    Want proof? Check out all the leaflets and campaigning messages. Plenty stop brexit slogans and a tiny occasional reference to independence.

    Retweeting rape crisis scotlands propaganda timing after the Alex Salmond trial, this is the sort of politician not unique in scotland who reaped from the hard work if indy supporting activists and is now turning their back on independence itself.

    I suspect there are many more politicians like this in the SNP who blindly follow the sturgeon party line, never challenging its nature denying policies or the damage it is doing to the chances of independence.

    Why would they when the bank balance tops up nicely at the tax payers expense.

    I fear it’s too late to change the SNP from within so a new independence party might have to be the way forward.

    How ironic given that many joi ned the SNP believing they were the vehicle to drive us to independence.

    Again, heartfelt thanks for exposing the true nature of the snp leadership and its careerist followers.

  26. call me dave says:

    Just come across this: BBC Website Scotland.

    Ruth Davidson to join House of Lords when Holyrood term ends

    Ms Davidson has accepted the peerage and confirmed that she would continue as the constituency MSP for Edinburgh Central until March 2021.

    She will only take up her seat in the House of Lords after her term in Holyrood ends.

    Ms Davidson quit as Scottish Tory leader last August after eight years in the role.

  27. robertknight says:

    Davidson not taking up seat in Lords until until term at Holyrood ends.

    Makes perfect sense. Be a neat trick having your snout in two troughs simultaneously, unless you were a seriously deformed pig of course.

  28. dakk says:

    Wokeists to the left,Anti Wokeists to the right.

    Scotland in the middle wit you…

  29. Cumoangerraff says:

    What is to stop James Dornan from stating that he identifies as a woman, and adding her name to the ‘all woman’ list?

  30. robertknight says:

    Cumoangerraff @ 10:20 pm

    “What is to stop James Dornan from stating that he identifies as a woman, and adding her name to the ‘all woman’ list”.

    Excellent idea! Qualification period under proposed legislation is, what, 3 months? Plenty of time to change – and change back!

    Nice to see the NEC moving the goal posts to pull the rug from under Joanna Cherry. She should sit as an Independent and tell the SNP to F’ right off.

  31. Robert Graham says:

    SNP supporters on other sites jointly sticking their fingers in their ears and shouting LA LA LA over and over again in the hope it will all go away , look at the polls look at the polls dont rock the boat when we are so close .
    Aye close to ducking what , whats the master plan that has been worked on for the last 6 years , christ easily lead bloody sheep

  32. Tannadice Boy says:

    Daak says

    True 30 percent are always going to vote
    Indy. Equally 30 percent are always going to vote to stay in the United Kingdom. 40 percent in the middle. 50 percent are men go figure Nicola.

  33. Beaker says:

    Well, if James Dornan is getting pushed out in such a manner, you can add Glasgow Cathcart to Edinburgh Central as seats I’d be happy to see the SNP lose.

    Unless they are terminally useless or corrupt then there should be no good reason to remove your local politician. If he’s held the seat for 10 years then he will be known in his constituency. Good MPs/MSPs tend to keep their seats, even if their party bombs.

    Wonder if there are other MSPs in the firing line.

  34. Contrary says:

    Wings us full of depressing news today. The only way to affect change in the SNP is to hit them where it hurts – their popularity. SAY you will not be voting for them. And vote with your conscience when the time comes.

  35. Bob Mack says:

    Isn’t it becoming clearer that former Labour party members with political experience were welcomed into the SNP and promoted precisely because of that.

    We have given the vipers who destroyed Labour a home in our
    movement and they are doing what vipers do. They bite.

    This was a calamitous decision.

  36. Colin Alexander says:

    Cannae say I never warned youse – years ago – about Sturgeon’s SNP.

  37. Gregor says:

    I don’t want exclusive SNP pills: I want my unfettered democratic Right to choose.

  38. Robert Louis says:

    Colin Alexander at 1032pm,

    Yes. I recall you posting on this several years ago. You were right.

    Meanwhile (and I have just looked), our backstabbing First Minister is yet again tweeting about what book she is reading… I’m not joking.

    We will have to organise and get independence for ourselves, the SNP are finished.

  39. Shug says:

    Best idea I have heard

  40. Colin Alexander says:

    Robert Louis

    Thank you.

    I’m trying to kid myself on that I’m chuffed with myself at calling it right for years. But, really I’m sad about what has happened to the SNP.

    But, there is hope. Sturgeon and her cronies have had to play their cards. Show their true colours. Finally other people are starting to see the real Sturgeon SNP.

    The fightback begins. The Bruce never gave up. Neither will we.

    We the people of Scotland can win, if we focus on independence.

  41. Kenny says:

    Personally, I think there should be a large, loose, umbrella “YES” party.

    It can field maybe list, maybe even constituency MSPs… MPs as well, councillors…

    Its programme would consist of two words: “Scottish independence”.

    The brand “YES” is very identifiable. None of these “alliances” or endless acronyms…

    It could hold rallies, take part in elections, have posting campaigns, collect signatures to petition for an indyref… it could be an alternative to the SNP for those like Riddoch, McAlpine, Stu, Salmond… and could accept anyone wanting to jump ship, such as a certain political heavyweight from Edinbru.

    The SNP has sunk. It is a ship which has sailed (over a cliff), there is no saving it at all. It was the party of the 2010s. But we are now in a whole new decade. Abandon the SNP and let them enjoy planning more wokeness, thoughtcrime laws, weird science and ways to cancel women. We have a new (old) country to build!

  42. Ian Brotherhood says:

    I don’t understand why any Yesser should feel down about developments.

    If you’ve been a member of the SNP for x-number of years, aye, then it’s understandable, but the more of this shitery we get via the SNP’s NEC, the clearer the battle-lines become.

    The SNP has left YOU, not the other way around. Betrayal isn’t pleasant but we all have to deal with it eventually – the hardest part is acknowledging that you’ve been shafted by someone who, you really believed, needed you.

    And they did need us. They really really REALLY fuckin needed us. In every election since (insert year here).

    But now they needn’t worry about your puny vote, as detailed here,

    A lot of us here are political nerds but most folk aren’t – they’ve got real lives and problems to deal with and simply don’t have time for this 24/7 pishery. Doesn’t mean they don’t know, or can’t understand, what’s going on – just means they know as much as they think they need to know at any given moment. They wait until they can see the issues in black/white terms, concentrate a wee bit harder when election time comes around, then vote accordingly. (Like the pal who, when asked if he was staying up to watch the GE results come in, said ‘Nah man, ahm gonny get pished an have a proper kip. It’ll probably be on the news the morra, eh?)

    Someone will correct me if I’m wrong here, but from memory, every single poll this place has covered (or commissioned) re OBFA/TRA/Hate Crime Act or whatever else has shown how people think, and done so accurately. The SNP has – in every single instance – set its face against the wishes/opinions of the people who gave it power in the first place.

    Does anyone really believe that those people aka The People aka US, haven’t noticed?

  43. Walter Jones says:

    I’m still up for matching on Bute House.

    Get the bastard Sturgeon to come out and address the crowd.

    Someone should stand as an independent in that Edinburgh seat against that Tartan Tory Robertson.

    Like Wishart, he became institutionalised at Westminster.

    He us more interested in his bank balance than Scottish Independence.

  44. ClanDonald says:

    It appears that the NEC’s decision to make James Dornan’s seat an all woman shortlist seat is a breach of the SNP constitution.

    The NEC are only allowed to make a seat AWS if the incumbent steps down. And James Dornan was told by the SNP that he still had time to make up his mind. Apparently the deadline for him to finally decide isn’t till mid September.

    Pass the popcorn please.

  45. Me Bungo Pony says:

    Don’t remember OBFA being unpopular.

  46. Walter Jones says:

    Where’s Mary, Mungo and Midge tonight???

    That’ll be the Cat, Bungo and robbo.

    Three cheeks of the same arse,,,if you can get such a thing.

    And as for Sturgeon,,,a more devious bastard we have yet to meet.

    Ruth Davidson,,, Nicola Sturgeon,,,have you ever saw the two of them in the same room together???

  47. G H Graham says:

    From now on, James shall be known as Jasmina. Problem solved.

    Not sure what James Dornan is upset about. He can simply declare he’s a woman and he’s back on the shortlist. That’s how it works inside the SNP these days, right?

    And he doesn’t even need to wear women’s clothes. He could even grow a beard if he wanted to & he’d still qualify for the all woman’s shortlist.

    In the SNP, anything is possible, except independence of course.

    Cos that would be considered weird.

  48. Walter Jones says:


    You are a fuckin arse.

    Fuck off back to kissing the feet of that bastard Sturgeon.

  49. ScottieDog says:

    So near yet so far. This is like a sick game of snakes and ladders.
    I hope there’s now a pro-Indy party willing to challenge the constituency vote now. I wouldn’t have said that a week ago.

    I admire folk who have stuck with the SNP and are trying to change it from within. I resigned my membership 18 months ago.

  50. Me Bungo Pony says:

    It appears that the NEC’s decision to make James Dornan’s seat an all woman shortlist seat is a breach of the SNP constitution

    Great. So the guy who helped wreck Mark McDonald’s life is now a malcontent hero, and his return to Holyrood one of their cause celebre.

    I suppose as Joanna Cherry was one of the pillars of the SNP strategy on Brexit (thus enraging the malcontents for diverting attention from independence) but is now another cause celebre for them, we shouldn’t be too surprised.

    There seems little coherence to their thinking beyond “Get Sturgeon“.

  51. Me Bungo Pony says:

    Cheers Walter 🙂

  52. Elmac says:

    This is all so sad. Like many others I put my trust in the SNP and their core policy of independence for Scotland. This website raised the alarm bells some time ago but I always felt the SNP would come good on their rhetoric and deserved our patience. For me that ran out on 31 January when the Brexit deadline passed with barely a whimper despite all the brave words in the HOC and elsewhere. That was the day I binned my long standing membership and now I am seriously considering binning my vote as well.

    I cannot condone what this party has become nor vote for them. We are crying out for an alternative which stands for independence first and foremost without the sideshows and dithering of Sturgeon and co. This latest abuse of political power will be the last straw for many. I don’t say I will vote green at the next election but, if no rival independence party emerges, I will consider that or, more likely, spoil my ballot paper.

    Come on Alex, Joanna and your ilk we need the SNP to be cleansed or a new party to arise. We need you if we are ever to be rid of this stinking corrupt “union”.

  53. laukat says:

    I wonder if a better use of a ‘wings party’ might be to coral wings snp member to vote some NEC members out of position? There must be a high number of readers who are also SNP members.

    Whilst I don’t doubt that Nicola has questions to answer over Alex Salmond she is converting ‘middle ground’ voters to Independence so I think leadership change is counter to the primary aim of independence.

    However the agenda of some NEC members seems to be driving some really stupid decisions and policies. Could we not start a campaign to have for example Joanna Cherry elected Women’s convenor, James Dornan for Equalites Convenor. If Alex Salmond was to rejoin the SNP I would rather he was doing policy development but I’m sure others could come up with more viable candidates?

  54. Walter Jones says:


    Don’t patronise me ya fuckin dildo.

  55. Me Bungo Pony says:

    Lol, you little dickens Walter 🙂

  56. Beaker says:

    @Walter Jones says:
    31 July, 2020 at 11:37 pm
    “Where’s Mary, Mungo and Midge tonight???
    That’ll be the Cat, Bungo and robbo.”

    Thank you for that. I just spluttered my tea onto my nice new shiny desk 🙂

    Had a look on YouTube – it’s there! I’m old enough (just) to remember it on tv…

  57. Terry says:

    @colin alexander.
    When did you know and what triggered it? Ie that snp was anti indy under Nicola?

  58. Beaker says:

    @Walter Jones says:
    31 July, 2020 at 11:40 pm
    You are a fuckin arse.”

    Erm, I can’t remember that line being used in Mary, Mungo and Midge… Although I have seen the “Twangers” episode of Rainbow.

    Back on topic. If a sitting MSP has to write an open letter, then there are serious issues ongoing. Look at Glasgow City Council SNP group and you will see what I mean.

  59. Bob W says:

    @Me bungo Puny

    “ I suppose as Joanna Cherry was one of the pillars of the SNP strategy on Brexit (thus enraging the malcontents for diverting attention from independence)”

    Was that not SNP policy, or were all the other MPs, MSPs and Nicola Sturgeon touting the defeat brexit line, just in our imagination.

  60. Anon says:

    NEC members were given less than 48 hours notice that the meeting was taking place – which meant that many couldn’t attend.

  61. Walter Jones says:

    We have been taken for mugs.

    Things like this always happened to other Parties, NEVER ours.

    But, for what ever reason, we have become the other Party.

    I don’t know how Sturgeon done it, and I don’t know why Sturgeon done it, but she has managed to con some of the smartest minds in Scotland.

    And it it now up to those same minds to try and find a way out if this mess and get us back on the road to Independence.

  62. Me Bungo Pony says:

    Back on topic. If a sitting MSP has to write an open letter, then there are serious issues ongoing. Look at Glasgow City Council SNP group and you will see what I mean“.

    So now even SNP councillors are in the firing line. The commitment to independence of the denizens of this site really is questionable.

  63. CameronB Brodie says:

    Me Bungo Pony
    “The commitment to independence of the denizens of this site really is questionable.”

    As is the party’s leadership, and their approach to the law and politics.

  64. Me Bungo Pony says:

    @Bob W 12:19am
    Was that not SNP policy, or were all the other MPs, MSPs and Nicola Sturgeon touting the defeat brexit line, just in our imagination.

    That was my point Bob. Joanna Cherry was fully on board with that. The malcontents are furious about that policy as it was diverting attention away from independence …. but Ms Cherry has now been rehabilitated as a hero for them. It’s like having Grand Moff Tarkin become a hero of the Rebel Alliance.

  65. Mialuci says:

    Politics is a dirty business, Remember Mrs Thatcher in tears when her supposedly loyal friends stabbed her in the back.
    Like a lot of long winded people on this forum I could just write for its own sake and not because I have something interesting to say.
    So I will just say one thing, I have only once gave money to the SNP, a whole £5 for the year then I stopped it, but I have never stopped giving them my vote, human beings can be bad to each other and I have accepted that since the day I was born, . I do not care about who is running the ship as long as I get to my destination, then I will complain about the dodgy steering and try and get answers as to why so many incompetents where allowed anywhere near the ship in the first place

    Alba Gu Bra

  66. schrodingers cat says:


    no big deal, james dornan even tweeted he was standing down. it is no surprise his branch set in motion the search for suitable replacement.

    each branch will review the PPC’s who come forward and will chose who they want. pretty standard procedure.

    if james dornan takes the hump and joins the alliance, good

  67. Davie Oga says:

    Amazing how some people on twitter are asking The FM to intervene with the NEC oblivious to the fact that she and her husband dominate the NEC.

    The cult of personality around the leader and centralised control makes it more like the Romanian communist party under the Ceau?escu’s than a modern social democratic party.

    However, today’s a good day. Battle lines are being drawn. The fog is lifting from a lot of peoples eyes. It will give some momentum to the new list party/parties. I don’t necessarily agree with Cherry’s politics, but I respect her. She rose to the top of her profession before entering politics. Looking at the NEC, most of them have done absolutely nothing of note except climb the greasy politics pole. There are exceptions, but not enough of them.

    Sturgeon worked for Drumchapel law firm for two years after graduating. It takes 2 years as a trainee in Scotland before you can qualify as an actual solicitor.
    Did Sturgeon qualify?
    What did she actually do for the 5 years between leaving Drumchapel law and getting elected on the list in 1999?

  68. CameronB Brodie says:

    The legitimacy of political authority can’t be separated from morals, the rule-of-law, or the truth. So we’re on to plums with the current leadership.

    Epistemology and Politics in Evidence Discourse, September 1994
    Truth, Reason and Justice: Epistemology and Politics in Evidence Discourse

  69. bipod says:

    Another excellent dissection from ASH of the shocking behaviour of the UK/Scottish gov, turning this country into an authoritarian hell hole.

    It is a long read, but if you don’t want to read all of it I would recommend section 5: The religion of medicine and section 6: The Utopia of Shame.

  70. CameronB Brodie says:

    I first suspected the party was not well, when I discovered their intention to play fast and loose with legal reason, and legally re-classify women as a sub-group of men.

    What is plain language law and why use it?

    Speaking Plainly: Plain Language Law for Non-Lawyers, 12th September 2002

  71. CameronB Brodie says:

    Care to indicate what your legal and public health background is?

  72. Breastplate says:

    You don’t get it, do you?
    You seem to understand that people are angry but you don’t seem to know why they’re angry even though many people here have explained why.
    Are you sure you’re not embedded in the party because you sound like you’ve been assimilated by the Borg faction within.

  73. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    “NEC members were given less than 48 hours notice that the meeting was taking place – which meant that many couldn’t attend.

    Really @ Anon says 1 August, 2020 at 12:19 am

    And after months of lock down where lots of people have been working from home and interacting with friends and family virtually the NEC made this meeting face to face only or did a minority of NEC members vote virtually (and does the SNP NEC rules allow this)?

    Sounds very fucking dodgy to me.

    I’ve managed to conduct my full time employment, voluntary service and community support online

    Yet you claim the largest political party in Scotlands ruling National Executive Committee pulled a lastminutedotcom manoeuvre and MANY couldn’t manage to attend, REALLY??

    That you Dougie D?

  74. CameronB Brodie says:

    I’m not one to bow to authority but I’m not a nature or medical science denier.

    Journal of Law and the Biosciences, Volume 7, Issue 1, January-June 2020
    Epistemic responsibility in the face of a pandemic

  75. Beaker says:

    @Me Bungo Pony says:
    1 August, 2020 at 12:24 am
    “So now even SNP councillors are in the firing line. The commitment to independence of the denizens of this site really is questionable.”

    Long standing SNP councillors quit the party, one of whom accused the group of bullying. Then there is the curious case of someone’s husband securing a nominal £1 per year rate for a council property. Nepotism is alive and well in the SNP. I keep saying that discipline is seriously lacking within the SNP, and in Glasgow and surrounding areas for some reason.

    Sturgeon may be good at the “eloquence” but that means bugger all. I’ve a lot of professional experience in public speaking, and I could stand up and present the daily briefings just as well. But I’d be fucked trying to do the job of an MSP.

    Being supportive of independence doesn’t mean you must support the SNP. That’s why they don’t want people to vote for a List only party, because too many voters might just do that.

  76. Gregor says:

    NEC will permit James Dornan to stand self-identified as a woman, in the name of equality.

  77. CameronB Brodie says:

    I don’t deny the pandemic we face poses serious challenges to our liberty and democratic rights, but British constitutionalism already denies Scots are humans with legal personalities. We are all a sub-set of English Torydum, apparently.

    The Role of Experts in the Covid-19 Pandemic and the Limits of Their Epistemic Authority in Democracy

  78. Polly says:

    ‘Yet you claim the largest political party in Scotlands ruling National Executive Committee pulled a lastminutedotcom manoeuvre and MANY couldn’t manage to attend, REALLY??’

    Yes I wondered about that too, especially given there was supposedly a previous meeting that overran.

    I agree with some other folk though that at least it’s out in the open now and most people can see the machinations behind the curtain for what they are. All but idiots or those without a shred of integrity would support this.

  79. susan says:

    The SNP just sinks lower and lower in my estimation. Shown up as Machiavellian manipulators. I want no part in this great social experiment. Forcibly redefining reality is wrong.

  80. Davie says:

    Ended my membership of the party , I’m Edinburgh central and was looking forward to any candidate putting forward there argument to myself and the national executive has denied me this .

  81. twathater says:

    To the ones saying the selection process is the work of the branch and the Cherry situation was needed to put her back in her box , both these decisions to change and alter the rules were made by the NEC and it is probably only a coincidence that NS and hubby are on the NEC with a few of the science deniers

    I have never been a member of any political party but I did seriously consider joining the SNP but thank god I didn’t , it is bad enough having to think about voting for these lunatic carpetbaggers without paying them for my misery

  82. Polly says:

    @ twathater

    I saw your post a couple days ago but had just screwed my determination (and stomach) tight to vote for SNP despite everything, since I couldn’t bear the unionists crow. Then today with Cherry/Dornan and my determination is gone again. I sympathised with everything you wrote and empathised with most.

    But even now I still feel I might have to overcome my repugnance and vote for them. Whatever is making the party to behave this way – unionist infiltration now seems not a stretch to imagine – then what they’d want more than anything is them to lose power at Holyrood just before Brexit. Until we can get other parties to vote for, hopefully soon, we damage our own cause by damaging them.

  83. David R says:

    I left the SNP after the vote on NATO, seemed a lazy way of avoiding questions on defence and the actions of the leadership pissed me off. Allowed me to focus on Yes stuff and RIC.

    I was convinced to rejoin after the Brexit vote although this return only lasted a few months as I was sick of the SNPs lack of drive to get another IndyRef more interested in being pals with everyone.

    Since then my wife has also left the party after they put the phone down on her after she asked a question of HQ. Since then she’s had a couple of letters and a call to see if she’d return. I’ve thankful been permanently put on the naughty step, my wife politely told them to ram it.

    The SNP is now home to the wee shits who would have found a home in New Labour. Independence would put a block on their career in politics, something I fear they feel entitled. Indy is of no interest as they are 100% in to the BS that is identity politics. Next year the SNP will not be getting my vote. Unless a list party turns up that convinces me that they are their to work for Scotland and not themselves then no pro-indy will be getting my vote.

    If the current situation is the best we can expect of an Indy Scotland then I very much doubt that it would get my support in the unlikely event of a 2nd IndyRef as the thought of any of these clowns running an independent Scotland is, well bollocks too be honest.

  84. susan says:

    I feel the same Polly.

  85. A. Bruce says:

    Now is the time to join another party, either the ISP or AFI. Re the AFI, there was a really good podcast from the Barrhead Boy yesterday with A. Thompson ex SNP. I would still grudgingly, holding my nose, vote for the SNP but there’s no way that they will see another penny from me.

  86. Mialuci says:

    For all the people here that will stop voting for the SNP, I have a political party that will welcome you with open arms, its called The Monster Raving Looney Party lol

    And btw cameron or whatever your name is, I still ain’t reading your comments, I get more fun watching my paint dry

  87. AwakeNotWoke says:

    After the last week, I’ve reached the conclusion that the SNP are evil, and must be removed from power as a matter of child safety. I’m quite willing to vote for anyone else who has a chance of defeating them.

    How much money would require to be raised to arrange an ad in either the tabloids or telly highlighting the effects of intended GRA & Hate Speech legislation? And I suppose any such ad would require legal opinion/approval?

    If the GRA information can be pushed in front of parents, particularly those with daughters, I think it could actually have an effect at the ballot box.

    It would perhaps be possible to crowdfund the money if working alongside women’s rights groups in Scotland?

    How the hell has it come to this?

  88. stuart mctavish says:

    Talking of dishonour, the Wings’ Salmond party might currently be reluctant to stand in the constituencies but if it comes to the bit that elections are not brought forward and a statement from YES must be made, over and above the Cherry, Salmond, Murray or even Campbell options in Edinburgh Central;

    Mark McDonald has a massive majority and would make an excellent constituency candidate in Aberdeen Donside,

    Ditto Derek Mckay in West Renfrewshire (its a bit tighter but since any place on the list might be too controversial for even you, he’d be obliged to work all the harder in campaigning)

    and of course, if necessary, poor Dornan/Spears in Catchart (which ever gets dumped) – preferably in drag for the lols..

  89. Me Bungo Pony says:

    Oh I get it Breastplate. It just comes over as self indulgent, self destructive, incoherent cyber-rage. I see nothing positive in it for independence, nor a coherent strategy/endgame, and fear it could easily destroy any chance of independence for decades if this bile spills out into the general population.

    This close to what will be the most important Holyrood election for independence since 2011, it would be catastrophic and heart- breaking for those of us who have dreamed of it for many decades if impatient, puritanical zealots wreck it.

  90. Walter Jones says:

    There are some right arseholes who just don’t hear the message.


  91. MightyS says:

    I wasn’t aware that Dornan was implicated in the McDonald incident.
    Anyway – he happened to block me on Twitter last week for saying that the Murrells were in a clique. That was it. No swearing, no personal insults. It was the Murrells part that offended him. Whether he still feels loyal towards them or not, I think he’s well aware of the Self ID threat and clearly sees the entryists amongst them. That the NEC are breaking party laws in trying to squeeze him out is yet to be seen, but I hope he wins his fight.

    Did anyone see the cryptic tweet by Cherry, telling us to expect a lot more change in the next 2 months? Intriguing.

  92. stuart mctavish says:

    Whilst I’m at it, bribing Jackson Carlaw with a spot on the list to bridge the divide and contest the Eastwood constituency would now make a particularly powerful statement, if feasible.

  93. CameronB Brodie says:

    Whatever, I can’t force you, I’m only sharing.

  94. katherine hamilton says:

    Mr. Dornan may or not be one of the good guys. I don’t know. But his “I don’t want to name names” attitude is the fucking problem. Stop being so fucking nice. I don’t live in Rutherglen so it’s probably none of my business, but cunts will be cunts. Call them out.

    Swearing a wee present to the Rev and those who don’t like sweary people!

  95. Kevin Kennedy says:

    Dornan is a weasel, an indy procrastinator.

    That said he is being ousted for the wrong reasons by dubious methods, and the idea of Spears being an MSP is horrifying.

  96. Polly says:

    @ Susan

    I’m sure a lot of folk who know what is happening do feel scunnered Susan. It seems to me Joanna is staying in the party, abiding by this rule, because she sees there might be another way to fight from inside and obviously doesn’t want to give up. If she doesn’t and she knows more than us about the internal strife, then I want to follow her lead. I hope others do too.

  97. Cath says:

    If I was still in Cathcart, I wouldn’t vote for Spear. She’s truly awful. I also recall the vote for women’s convener last year, where the choice of women was voted down and a bunch of misogynistic young blokes were cheering “their” choice – Spear – getting in instead.

  98. Morgatron says:

    I used to think Dornan was OK until last year when I emailed him regarding an ongoing issue relating to my 91 year old mother. Not a fucking peep back from him. So if its not news worthy,its not worth this his time. Perhaps this is the real reason why people don’t trust politicians and another reason hes not standing Next year. When a 91 year old SNP supporter can see through him, that says it all to me.

  99. Breastplate says:

    No Bungo,
    You don’t get it as your 8:04 post shows.
    What you’ve written could easily describe the SNP.

    People are angry, disillusioned and despondent with the SNP trajectory that they feel will bypass independence completely.

    Why do they feel that way?
    The SNP made them feel that way.

    Who should we hold responsible for the trajectory of the SNP?

    As I’ve said before on Wings, the gradualists will not be able to jump a chasm in 2 small steps.

  100. Daisy Walker says:

    There are a lot of very good people in the SNP, lets not lose sight of that, and I suspect they are racking their brains trying to be loyal and also put the wheels back on the bus and point it in the right direction.

    Someone above asked if Joanna Cherry could stand as an independent for Holyrood… and that is a very, very good question. Legally could she? Since it hasn’t come up before, I suspect legislation to prevent it won’t exist.

    If she did, it would put the pressure on the SNP current leadership to try and throw her out of the party… not a good look by any means for one of the parties outstanding leading lights.

    Anyone else seeing the irony of them excluding Dorran cause he’s a bloke and they want to promote wimmin, and them excluding Joanna cause she’s way more capable than Angus.

    If Nicola is being backed by the Brit Nat Establishment to be the new Tony Blair, then

    1. She’s not going anywhere soon and we can expect a lot of very good publicity for her, up until the election when the whole GRA and Hate Bill will be played to the full.


    2. The nature of the Holyrood election – 2 votes, is an absolute godsend to us. We can be ‘loyal’ with vote 1, and protest and establish a democratic alternative with vote 2. They are ABSOLUTELY bricking it re this.

    And even more so, when they look at what happened at the GE with the ex SNP candidate in Fife (sorry can’t remember his name … Harvey?) The YES vote was bigger and more powerful than the SNP orders.

    I recognise the argument that there needs to be a high profile 2nd Indy party lead by a big hitter – I think it unwise to underestimate the power of a good quality local (and my god, didn’t Indyref1 show us that there are plenty out there). An informal alliance of Independent YES candidates, makes it very difficult for the BritNats to cut off the head.

    In a straight up game, we would look at what needs to change and pitch to the electorate about how best to deliver that.

    We are not in a straight game, we must alway keep an eye on what are the Brit Nats doing to spike things, and our movement. Always.

    And the litmus test for that, is what ground needs covered, and if it is not being covered, the Yes movement has to get on and do it.

    Right just now, I would suggest that a democratic means of voting for Indy (one way or another) is being held in a vice like grip by the SNP and there is increasing evidence to suggest they have no intention of delivering.

    All our political party eggs in the one basket, its the voting equivalent of pitching our army against their bigger army. Better tactics would be to hit and run and be nimble.

  101. Liz says:

    I wish people would stop trying to get Bungo to listen. S/he is very obviously a staffer.

    Heads up, the South Glasgow branch including some councillors used to meet once a month in the Bungo bar. It’s in NS constituency.
    No doubt the loyal one will tell me I’m wide off the mark.

    Don’t bother Bungo I don’t read any of your shite

  102. susan says:

    @ Daisy Walker. Yes were ARE being held over a barrel with the SNP being the only Indy party so they dictate the terms, mostly a go-slow on Indy and fast-tracks for unwanted nonsense ie the Representation of Women on Public Boards Bill, the GRA Reform Bill and the Hate Crime Bill. The latter designed partly? to criminalize those objecting to the first 2 Bills.

  103. Me Bungo Pony says:

    @Liz 11:10am
    Don’t bother Bungo I don’t read any of your shite

    Clearly you do 🙂 Believe what you wish. It’s just one more conspiracy theory to chuck on the already teetering pile.

    @Walter Joned 8:32am
    There are some right arseholes who just don’t hear the message.

    I know Walter but I’ll just keep plugging away anyway 🙂


    Always a pleasure Walter 🙂

  104. Jeremy Blackwell says:

    Interesting to see Rev Stu can’t give credit where credit is due and would have you believe HE unearthed James Dornan’s email when he did not. I did and have all evidence you need that the version of the email he has published is the exact same one I posted on Twitter. Then Rev Stu wouldn’t know that as he blocked me for standing up to his obnoxious bullying behaviour. Can’t he just say he had nothing to do with this and that he snatched the email from one of several dozen retweets?

  105. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Interesting to see Rev Stu can’t give credit where credit is due and would have you believe HE unearthed James Dornan’s email when he did not. I did and have all evidence you need that the version of the email he has published is the exact same one I posted on Twitter.”

    That would be a zinger of a point if not for the fact that if you click the image, IT LINKS DIRECTLY TO YOUR TWEET, you silly tit.

    (Oh, and in case you think I just edited the link in now, here’s a Google Cache version from 13 hours ago.)

  106. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    I accept the apology implied by your silence.

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