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Lower than the lowest low

Posted on May 09, 2018 by

We must admit, we didn’t think this would be beaten so soon.

But there you go. Just goes to show you how little we know about the sick, despicable, sewer-dredging shitfestival that is the Scottish media, and how badly even we’ve been overestimating their humanity all these years.


It says “scandal”.

To hell with every last one of these worthless sacks of parasitic filth. And their horses.

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    1. 09 05 18 18:56

      Lower than the lowest low | speymouth

    247 to “Lower than the lowest low”

    1. Dr Jim says:

      The similarities with Trumps hatred of Obama shine brightly here

      SNP does something good, Unionists drive themselves mad to undo it

    2. Smallaxe says:

      Lower than a limbo dancers arse.

    3. Stay angry, Stuart, yir better when yir angry.

    4. jimnarlene says:

      “To hell with every last one of these worthless sacks of parasitic filth. And their horses.”

      I can’t argue with that sentiment.

    5. Gary45% says:

      Bon Dias.
      When the gutter opposition sink to depths lower than anyone can imagine, you know you are winning the battle.

    6. liz says:

      After I read that ridiculous nonsense on twitter, I had to go and have a shower to calm down.
      Felt like opening the window and screaming for 10 mins solid.

      There is no description I can come up with to say how much I totally despise the UK press.

    7. Awizgonny says:

      I lost all faith in the Graun during the Independence referendum. Turned out they were a shameful pack of liars and quasi-racists. They’re not looking for the truth anymore – just click bait.

    8. Socrates MacSporran says:

      I noticed The Guardian is not allowing below the line comments on Ms Gravelli’s disgraceful article. Significant that is.

    9. Lucia Daines says:

      No understanding of how the baby box really works – really low and abysmal “reporting”.

    10. galamcennalath says:

      The biggest scandal at the moment effecting Scotland right now is the … BIASED MEDIA SCANDAL.

      That scandal substitutes the news we should be hearing with absolute bullshit fake stuff. Scotland simply doesn’t get balanced mainstream news.

      If the positive stories from Scotland got coverage folks would begin to feel more confident about what our wee country could achieve. And if the damage being done by WM and the Tories was laid bare, more folks would begin to question the Union. Of course that is precisely why the bias exists – to stifle democracy.

      But all is not lost by any means!

      1) bypass them with an army of activists working face to face

      2) overwhelm then online

      3)… and watch while they inflict more damage than good to their own cause!

    11. Walter Scott says:

      Giving new born babies a box full of baby stuff is now a scandal. Do these snp loathers have a clue how they’re perceived by normal people?

    12. Macart says:

      Public watchdogs my arse. TBH, I don’t really expect anything else from them at this point.

      And that is pretty sad.

      They’re not part of the solution. They are however, very much a part of the problem. They put people in harms way and they do so willingly. They and their chaintuggers are joined at the hip. You couldn’t put a fag paper between them in terms of narrative or what they seek to achieve. One hand most definitely washes the other between the msm and the state.

    13. Ian Brotherhood says:

      I probably would be angry too, if I wasn’t stuffed with pepperoni and out of my face on cocaine.

    14. Peekay says:

      They’re no more than clickbait journalists. They know the only people that read their shite is pissed off yessers. Do what I do, just starve them of views and/or replies. Don’t follow them, don’t register on their websites, just totally ignore. By giving attention you just feed into their own over-inflated self-worth

    15. Tam the Bam. says:

      This ‘expert’ was systematically exposed by The Rev’s article last week….obviously Brooks was intent on not letting the truth get in the way of a good smear*.

      *She was probably coached by one Simon Johnson (#Carmichaelgate)of the Torygraph ..another of ‘TOODLE-OO-THE-NOO’s Holyrood pals.

    16. Vestas says:

      With BBC tax money (extracted on pain of jail) flowing into newspapers who don’t need the cash then who’s surprised?

      Frankly RevStu I would have thought you’d have seen through Libby long ago…..

    17. Ann Rayner says:

      She used to write for the Herald and may still do so. Nuff said.

    18. Davy says:

      The belly of a snake is both higher in height and morals than 99% of the Scottish media.

      What did Scotland do that was so wrong that our own media loves to shit on us at every opportunity ?

      Perhaps their just natural cunts.

    19. Legerwood says:

      From The Guardian article:
      “” in Finland, they did so not in isolation, but by connecting parents to a pioneering maternity and early years service. It would be unfair to suggest the SNP has not invested in such services, but, while in Finland receiving a box is tied to attending antenatal and other classes, in Scotland the SNP decided against attaching preconditions and so missed an opportunity to encourage hard-to-reach women to engage.””

      But there is a pre-condition attached to getting the box. In order to get the box women have to register to get the box and they do this via their midwife! So encouraging hard-to-reach women to engage with maternity services.

      The first part of the paragraph also dams with faint praise, very faint indeed. Scotland’s maternity services are well established and some of the changes to the service in recent years have been targeted at specific issues for example, stillbirths which are now the lowest in the UK and close to the low levels seen in Scandinavian countries who have some of the lowest in the world.

      The Guardian did have one Scotland good story today. It was about children in care

    20. Ann Rayner says:

      Sorry, I should have checked Guardian article before posting. Dani is a columnist for ‘Scotland on Sunday’ according to them.
      No comments allowed, what a surprise.

    21. HandandShrimp says:

      I’m sorry Libby, Trump’s payment to Daniels is a scandal, Grenfell is a scandal, Windrush is a scandal. Whether the baby box is merely a slightly good thing or a reasonable, albeit minor, good thing is moot but it is not a scandal. No one has cheated anyone, no one has been hurt and no one has stolen from anyone. The Government has introduced a small benefit for mothers and it is hoped that evidence from other countries is indicative that it might assist our new mothers.

      Are the press really so desperate to find fault? Are the press really so bereft of humanity? It is all too weird. If only this much effort were put into real investigative journalism.

    22. Capella says:

      And her follow up tweet:
      Trump angers Scots with ban on Irn-Bru at luxury golf resort

      Trashing Scotland must be a full time job at the Guardian.

    23. galamcennalath says:

      Davy says:

      What did Scotland do that was so wrong that our own media loves to shit on us at every opportunity ?

      Perhaps it’s more a case of … too many Scots want to do the right thing. It has been the UK which has so often been on the wrong side of history!

      I can understand the BBC’s behaviour – their primary role is to support the UK and the Union.

      I can never quite understand why most of the rest of the media is so biased. Someone is pulling strings.

    24. fillofficer says:

      successful march
      crap headlines
      should be used to it by now

    25. twathater says:

      What I have noticed about brooks , grant , Wendy Alexander and the haggerty apart from they all speak and write shite , they all have this slabbering uncontrollable mooth , it is quite disconcerting , maybe they blame Scotland for their inner ugliness

    26. Heather McLean says:

      I’m not a prolific Twitter user, not even really sure how it works, but even I was motivated to reply to this utter SNPBAD garbage!
      They’re losing the battle and they know it, people just laugh and ignore it now!
      We, the Indy supporters, the SNP members, the SNP supporters, OWN the SNPBAD label and laugh at it!!

    27. smac1314 says:

      This insane hatred of the SNP may well cost lives. The box in and of itself is insignificant compared with the contents. The proper medical thermometer that is supplied within it could be invaluable in helping parents communicate with NHS 24 in helping to diagnose a serious problem. Having lost a son to meningitis I know how important a speedy diagnosis is when you are dealing with something deadly. If one baby dies because their mother was scared to accept the baby box thanks to the scaremongering of the Tories and their unionist chums in the press THAT will be the real scandal.

    28. HandandShrimp says:

      That is three articles on the Guardian about a bounty box of useful items for a new mother to take home with her baby. The box has the additional option of being used as temporary crib for the first few weeks until the mother finds her feet. She might not need it, cots and prams change hands between families, but for some it might prove a useful fillip.

      Criticism might be that it is a but a small contribution or that many may already have the items offered (although it is optional to take the box). However, what do we get? The box is the work of Satan! It will take over your baby’s mind and ignite from the very fires of Hades itself. The boxes are more evil than Ebola and more deadly than Novochok.

      I am no longer sure if I still live in the universe I started off in. This one has got spectacularly weird.

    29. HandandShrimp says:

      …unless Libby means that the scandal is that the press have proved to be total dicks…in which case I concur.

    30. winifred mccartney says:

      Despicable media in Scotland – they obviously know no shame and are all trying hard to get noticed in Union London, the more you shout snp baad the better chance you have eg AH.

    31. Scotspatriot says:

      That wee Demo in Glasgow Town sure has riled them, eh ?

    32. Bob Mack says:

      The media really is a nest of Vipers in Scotland.

    33. Clootie says:

      RIP journalism!

    34. ScottishPsyche says:

      I honestly thought Dani Garavelli was one of the OK ones but she got a wee bauble recently from her peers, so she is now one of them. I am reminded of that awful Sally Field Oscar acceptance speech, ‘you like me, you really like me…’

      So they all come to her defence, citing nuance and shades of grey. The usual suspects – Lucy Double Barrel, Haggerty, Libby Guardian and so on.

      The baby box is full of things that will enhance a baby’s early life – it is madness to undermine its uptake in the way they are doing. This perverse and dangerous obsession with the minutiae of every utterance of the SNP is soul destroying. Every other party, whether in Government or not, is never put under scrutiny in this way.

    35. jfngw says:

      It’s strange that all these journalits that claim to be pro indy produce pretty much nothing but negative Scottish stories.

      Remember they write in a tone required by the journal they are selling their wares to. They will do what you want for the right money.

      I refuse to use the Guardian website after the 2014 coverage, don’t think I’m missing much by the look of it.

    36. CmonIndy says:

      This is getting mental. Go to your local shops and stores. Select a Unionist rag of your choice. Take several copies into your basket alongside your Scottish shopping. Deposit said rags on the shelf behind the produce of your choice [or have them cool off in the freezers]. Feel good. Rinse and repeat on a daily basis.

    37. HandandShrimp says:

      Dani’s article seems unnecessary, it isn’t as daft as Severin’s two but it is still pretty superfluous. A serious debate regarding the negativity over such a small benefit would have been politically and socially far more illuminating.

      Incidentally, the press has no issue about throwing experts to the wolves when it suits them. A point I intend to remind them of the next time they do so.

    38. dakk says:

      All of our British nationalist media implore us to worship a new royal infant as a precious treasure to our society upon which untold riches and adoration should be lavished.

      But to any anonymous nonentity pleb newborn there should be no gesture of recognition or welcome into what’s left of our society.Not worthy of even a cardboard box.That says it all.

      These sycophantic snobs have no shame in the base dishonesty they practice on behalf of their mega rich britnat media barons.

    39. Dorothy Devine says:

      It is beyond my comprehension why anyone describing themselves as a journalist would indulge in writing such cretinous, spiteful drivel and then have the temerity to squawk about their ‘free speech ‘ being curtailed / challenged – greetin’ about ‘ nasty cybernats’ saying nasty things about their ‘professionalism’

      I look forward to the BBBC desperate money falling into the black hole of professional journalism and the papers folding one after the other – never to be missed in an INDEPENDENT Scotland.

      They make me sick .

    40. Liz g says:

      Handandshrimp @ 6.54
      Totally agree,this has gone into the Twilight Zone right enough.

      As as a young mum I would have loved one of those boxes.
      Not just for the contents either….. I could have been doing with it when I went over to my Mum’s,rather than having a wee baby squished up in a car seat for a few hours or have a second Moses basket…. A box that also stored the weans stuff when I wasn’t there would have been just the ticket!
      But the practically of them never gets explored in the MSM,and they a reaching so much that they don’t just ignore them…instead they politicize a bloody cardboard box..???

      Its so bizarre…. I can’t even…..

    41. Thepnr says:

      Dani Garavelli never normally writes for the Guardian, as far as I can see, apart from this article there are only 3 others in the last two years.

      The one linked to earlier about Ruth Davidson, another about Jeremy Corbyn and finally one about her admiration of Bob Dylan.

      Seems then she is not commissioned often to write for them as the great majority of her work is for The Scotsman as well as Scotland on Sunday and a lesser amount for the Herald.

      It’s interesting then that the original article on the baby box story that has now become a “scandal” in the eyes of the Guardian was written by Severin Carrell who is their Scottish Politics editor and formerly politics correspondent for the Scotsman and Scotland on Sunday.

      It’s a small closed world these Scottish journalists inhabit.

      Why they feel it necessary to dig up an expert in order to write a story that rubbishes Scottish Government policy? One that has the full backing of Scotland’s Chief Medical Officer as written by Carrell himself in the original article?

      “Scotland’s chief medical officer, Catherine Calderwood, and Scottish ministers have repeatedly said the box “is designed to provide a safe sleep space for babies and has been awarded British Safety standard accreditation as a crib for domestic use”.

      If the boxes are said to be suitable for babies to sleep in by Scotland’s chief medical officer then that’s good enough for me. Not though for Scottish journalists.

      I’d like to read all of the memo that the expert wrote for the Scottish government as it seems to me the one thing that Carrell did run with in his SNP bad story was that

      “They shouldn’t be advocating infants sleep in these boxes unless there isn’t anything else available,” Blair said.

      Well isn’t the whole point of the boxes that in many homes there just isn’t “anything else available” because of a lack of money? Nobody needs sign up for a box if they don’t wan’t one but they’ll gripe all the same.

      These journalists and their rags are the real scandal.

    42. jfngw says:


      I think the undermining is the point. They want to reduce the uptake then claim it as a SNP failure. They will leave no stone unturned to oust the SNP.

      They are not interested in mortality rate, unless it is rising. Then they would see it as good news for the objective.

    43. Andy-B says:

      Lets kick the Scottish press where it hurts in the pocket don’t buy any newspapers except the National, to hell with the rest of the unionist shitrags, they don’t deserve our money.

    44. Capella says:

      How it must grate on their bloated egos that young Scottish women will get some small pleasure from receiving a baby box. Like the bad fairy at the christening, they furiously thrash about with their magic wand, blighting everything that grows and nourishes.
      Cursing newborn babies is a dismal occupation.

      May their ill-wishing rebound and shrivel them up and the gross “newspapers” which hire them.

    45. Jon Musgrave says:

      Poisonous article from a journalist who obviously has a major chip on her shoulder.

    46. bigG says:

      I am sure that the take up on the boxes will not slow down. When parents see it and its contents these scaremongers will be well and truly outed. I had one young first time mum in my shop during the debacle last week she has now recieved her box, is highly delighted and says she is too polite to say what she thinks of these winging tories! they should be kicked into touch and itll be a long time, if ever she believes a word coming from the tories again and her late father was a tory councillor!
      Mothers know best

    47. Movy says:

      The Guardian’s Scottish coverage has until recently been dire; now it is just yet another SNPbaad shitfest. I was and am not surprised by Severin Carrell’s drivel but I honestly believed that Libby Brooks was better than that. The true scandal is that the Guardian is, in my opinion, repeatedly offering its Scottish audiences ill-informed, poorly investigated and ignorant politically-motivated copy and expecting people to pay for it.

    48. Karmanaut says:

      How many people will now dump their baby box or refuse it, thinking it is unsafe, and put their babies in a cot or their own bed?

      That’s what makes me furious. If the baby box scheme has reduced infant mortality in Finland (which all evidence says is has done), then trying to sabotage the same scheme here through scaremongering means that some Scottish child could very well die as a direct result.

      The scaremongers must know that. But do they care? It’s evidently more important to them to sabotage the scheme in order to attack the Scottish government, since presumably that’s a threat to their Britishness.

      You’ve no idea how angry this makes me.

    49. Meg merrilees says:

      Seems to me that it was all quiet on the baby box front until Ms. Davidson announced her pregnancy and Nicola tweeted the now famous reply.

      Has that rankled them SO much that this is the outcome?
      I guess (t)Ruthless probably won’t want a baby box as she can afford the things it provides but does this “scandal created by the newspapers reaction” not make her feel just a wee bit uncomfortable on behalf of the people of Scotland whom she regularly vows to defend.
      (Who is really behind it? – MI5, Scotland in Union, the Conservative and Unionist Party…)

      I’m surprised that the Sun and all the other newspapers haven’t created a rammy about the flammability of the cardboard covering the homeless on our streets at night – why they’re at risk of being burnt by this dangerous, toxic material. Anybody care about them?

      No, thought not -no political gain there.

      Anybody seen a disclaimer from John Lewis yet – can’t imagine that the publicity is helping their sales!

      The phrase “gutter press” is really apt now – they’ve earned it.

    50. Cactus says:

      It’s marching season folks! 🙂

      Yes Scotland style, from now until our independence day.

      The tories shall not treat Scotland like this anymore.

      Be seen children of Scotland… AND be heard.

      II / VI / MMXVIII.

    51. Luigi says:

      This foul, dirty campaign by the British Nationalist media is a clear sign that the Baby Box is an effective, popular initiative launched by the Scottish government. It has rightly acquired a lot of support from the Scottish people and the BritNats are panicking. In response, the dark forces of the British establishment have apparently instructed the media barons to attack this wonderful initiative at every opportunity.

      I’m not sure an all out attack strategy is a good idea, given that it has already had a very successful start in Scotland, but hey ho, those in panic mode tend to make big mistakes.

      Never interrupt your enemy………:)

    52. PacMan says:

      Agree with others that the MSM is starting to become like the twilight zone.

      Had watched STV news who headliner was that Scotland is the cocaine usage capital of the world, coupled with Kelly-Anne going around pubs and clubs of Glasgow with a cocaine detection kit.

      Checking the article online, the basis of that assertion was the findings of The Global Drug Survey which 130k people from 40 countries took part, 1300 of those from Scotland. From what I can gather, the survey was open to anyone on-line to fill in the survey. I’m not saying there is anything untoward or wrong with it but can they findings be proved to be as reliable as ones using traditional methods?

      Also, the fact of using detection kits to show drug usage, there is an old joke about nearly over ten pound note circulating in London containing traces of cocaine. It may be a joke but is it obvious that when coming into contact with cocaine tainted items could result in other items being contaminated. In this instance, somebody snorts cocaine on the toilet cistern top, flushes the toilet, people picks up cocaine traces from toilet flush handle, goes to another pub and that the contamination spreads. At the weekend, this being exponential.

      Again, I don’t think there is any agenda but amateurish news research with an editor pushing for sensationalism. I’m sure standards set by the British Broadcasting Corporation when handing out HM Governments cash to these journal will stop this 😉

    53. Merkin Scot says:

      We should not be surprised at what lengths the Establishment will go to protect the Union.
      No farting about, this time – get rid of the German woman and her parasitic family as well as Westminster.

    54. Jason Smoothpiece says:

      The centre are rattled.

      I’m a polite type Rev, but I would offer their cage is heavily rattled.

      MSM Arseholes all, everyone. Apologies to the nice folk on here regarding the language.

      Definitely Arseholes.

    55. ian murray says:

      The baby box meets the product standards of the 27 Eu countries
      It is given out by a number of hospitals in England in areas represented by Labour and Conservative MPs
      Nothing to do with facts of course

    56. schrodingers cat says:

      proving that there really isnt anything that they cant or wont make an snpbad story out of

      but we should recognisse that the BT2 campaign against uss is well and truley launched and from here on in, the snpbad will be relentless

      I always believed that even if we had 25% of the media on our side we would have won indyref1. but we didnt and we still dont.

      my main hope is they over egg the pudding, cry wolf etc, and this has a negative effect with some voters but we need to recognise that this will greatly influence many more.

      more worryingly, we wont be able to do much about it either. we need to just live with this during indyref2, use it to increase our activism and more importantly use our advantages wisely.

      canvasing, there is no substitute for door to door meetings, it has a very profound influence, far more profound than the relentless snpbad from the MSM.

      you need to be organised to do this, if you arnt or dont know how to, ask. there are loads of people on here who can advise you.

    57. Old Pete says:

      We are in a war, a war of words and thoughts. Are we winning the war ? I hope so ? but we will only know when the next Scottish referendum votes are cast. The unionist propaganda is daily getting worse constantly attacking Scotland and its government, how much longer can we wait surely we must go for Independence sooner than later, surely ?

    58. Macart says:

      Here’s the thing. There is no check to these titles or their commentariat. Certainly not any kind of social conscience. And as for ethics or morality? Seriously? The UK media?

      They are fully invested in the narrative they’ve sold the public. Over invested. They cannot and will not backtrack. They’ve simply left themselves no wiggle room to do so. Their only option is to press forward with ever more outrageous smears, misrepresentations and outright fibbery.

      So calm rebuttal or humour is the order of the day. Keep the swerry stuff to a minimum. Don’t give them the room to use the victim card. They are the abusers. They are the ones who keep bigger abusers in power and they are the ones who put their own people in harms way.

      Their job was to protect us from the powerful. Their job was to speak truth to power on our behalf. Clearly they didn’t fancy the job description. (shrugs)

      Fair enough. Deny them funds. Deny them support and always remember they abandoned us, not the other way round.

      Let’s give that job to someone more deserving. Indy new media, iScot, Phantom Power, Truly Scottish TV and so many more.

    59. Famous15 says:

      Is it not wonderful.

      My favourite history professor was an expert on the decline and fall of the Soviet Union and his research indicated that when the peoples of that Union stopped believing the stories in the media that the end of that Union was inevitable.

    60. Tinto Chiel says:

      What smac1314 and Karmanaut said: they are risking babies’ lives with this malicious, desperate, lying nonsense.

      The media is completely controlled here by the Establishment, with MSM editors told what to print and what to suppress, so something has them completely spooked. I wonder what?

      Don’t get mad, get to Dumfries next month if you can. Plant a saltire on Mundell’s lawn.

    61. Davosa says:

      The Guardian have and always will be anti-Scottish in every way. A shameful publication that borders on racism.

    62. Rock says:

      If Nicola had struck while the iron was hot and not spectacularly squandered a once in a 1000 years golden opportunity by wasting more than a year flogging a dead horse – a separate deal for Scotland which was never going to happen – Scotland would have been on the verge of independence and all this nonsense would have been confined to the dustbin of history.

      The most disgraceful political thing that has happened to Scotland since it was sold 311 years ago has been the Scottish First Minister from an independence supporting party standing “shoulder to shoulder” with Saint Theresa and the “ghastly” Boris Johnson as they declared war on Russia after a false flag operation.

      Despite the pretendy “sovereignty” and boasting of the clueless pompous armchair pundits posting here, Scotland is again as far away from independence as ever.

      Mark my words – there will be no illegal referendum before Brexit has been completed.

      Once Brexit has been completed, Scotland will be at the mercy of Westminster for another 622 years at least.

    63. Ken500 says:

      They say exactly the same about drug use in London, New York and Berlin as they do about Scotland. Pizza comments. London has more deaths from crime. Mexico has one of the highest crime rates.

      Iran, Afganistan, America UK and Russia are the countries in the world with the highest drug use.

      A big parade in Russia today, 11WW remembrance. 26Million Russans died.

    64. Tinto Chiel says:

      Meant to say: every time I see the faux-Lefty, Scotland-hating Guardian mentioned, I think of heedtracker and his spirited “dissections”.

      Hope to see you back here soon with your entertaining rants, old mole.

    65. Cubby says:

      Rock = boring boring British Nationalist paid to troll.

    66. Ken500 says:

      The prophet of doom.

    67. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      As others have pointed out above, “Tory Scum out” is not a vote-winning sentiment.

      I don’t mind the slogan “Red Tories Out” – it’s been a stalwart since 2014 and 2015’s GE. People who can think get that. But using the noun “scum” will win nobody over to our cause, for independence. It’s the “normal” people, who are waverers, whom we have to get voting for independence.

      Referring to them as “scum” is counterproductive.

      To paraphrase a character from (I think) one of Rory Bremners’s or Alaister McGowan’s TV shows – “They are young, they are learning”.

      “Young”, in regards to their understanding of how they are manipulated by the MSM. They are learning…

    68. thomaspotter2014 says:

      They can and will go lower.
      Indy Express must be getting up a head of steam as the DESPERATION is sending the Yoons over the edge.
      Not long now.

    69. Robert Louis says:

      Scottish so-called journalists HATE Scotland. They HATE everything about Scotland. They HATE the people of Scotland.

      It is truly hard to fathom the depraved depths to which the Scottish so-called journalists will go, to try to turn a very good news story into something bad. I mean what the f*** is wrong with these people? A Scottish Government comes forward with a good idea used in other countries, and which is greeted with joy in other countries. Yet in Scotland, the so-called journalists peddle lies, day after day after day to try to convince people that whilst baby boxes anywhere else in the world are really good, having baby boxes in Scotland is the most awful thing to have.

      Honestly, I will literally rejoice when I hear of journalism job losses in Scotland. They have nothing good to say about our country, not one word.

    70. Albert Herring says:

      @Robert Louis

      Scottish so-called journalists HATE Scotland so much they actually want Scottish babies to literally DIE.

    71. iain says:

      What is the bbc going to do for news when the last newspaper is sold in 7 or 8 years. Their whole news programme base is going to have to change.
      Maybe their journalists will have to do their jobs.
      Maybe I’m just being silly.

    72. Orri says:

      Not sure if it’s the expert or the “expert”

      If it’s the expert he’s . Which mentions My publications focus on factors within the infant sleep environment, such as how the infant is positioned, thermal stress, infant bedding,

      All of which might be addressed by a baby box, a drawer or a Moses cradle.

      Position is easiest as the smaller space means less room for moving.

      Thermal shock would be due to the notorious lack of being able to control their body temperatures babies have. A high walled enclosure, such as a baby box, would help there.

      Infant bedding is covered by the contents.

      The small size may actually be an advantage as it puts of the eventual choice of a more permanent cot to a later date.

      Here’s where harsh reality hits. A baby is more probably going to die in the early months when it’s immune system hasn’t established. An expensive cot might be a harsh reminder. There’s a remote chance it may be contaminated with something. A baby box will be unique to an individual. Also if I remember the pictures of the assembly line it’ll also be sterile.

      The only thing the media glommed onto in the end was concerns about fire safety.

      That’s where the Sun’s ‘expert’ comes in. For some reason the article has disappeared with the video. A pity due to the text giving the game away.

      He mentions the slots in the bottom. Which it you saw the video is where he targets his flame. Even then he has trouble getting the first one lit. You can see the fire inside the box travel up until it burst into flames when it finally burns through. All very well except the lid is meant to be on the bottom covering those slots.

    73. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Brian Doonthetoon @ 20:56,
      Absolutely right. I just made a posting in a similar vein on the previous thread before getting round to this one.

      We have to convince at least 10% more former “no” voters that an indy Scotland is going to be a really fine place for them as well. And not a hell-on-Earth for anyone.

      Afterwards we can just get on with being ourselves, however it pans out.

    74. ben madigan says:

      @schrodingers cat who said “I always believed that even if we had 25% of the media on our side we would have won indyref1. but we didnt and we still dont”.

      In ireland from the time of the birth of modern irish Republicanism (1790s) there were always clandestine pro-Republican newsheets, newspapers etc. They were closed down by the English authorities at regular and irregular intervals and then opened up again, in another place, under another name. They had a great impact on the people. Back in the day when a lot of people couldn’t read, one person used to read the newssheet out to the other villagers.

      Today even though social media has taken the place of local news sheets, the Scots still feel a lot is missing on their side in the propaganda war. Lack of money and circumventing current laws are big, big issues.

      Maybe local YES groups might think about printing out their own news and views on 2 sides of A4 paper, fold it in 4 and distribute through letter boxes or hand over personally while they are canvassing. (And I agree canvassing is essential for moving public opinion forward in our direction).

      They could then hold a weekly/monthly discussion group on the contents, inviting everyone to attend

      PS with regards to campaign against the Baby Box – that’s just Unionist envy shrieking its chagrin to the rooftops

    75. Golfnut says:

      I think the media in Scotland are getting their arse’s kicked, I think they believed and managed to convince Tory HQ that Indy was dead, they believed their own hype, no appetite and all that crap from buffalo gal,those SNP scalps in the GE17 convinced them the Indy movement was being rolled back, so convinced were they that the SG were afraid to call Indy 2 they decided to really piss all over devolution, disregard the Scotland’s wishes on Brexit and challenge the SG in court on Fracking.

      Then 80,000 plus hit streets, oops!

    76. Bob Mack says:

      “If Nicola had struck whilst the iron was hot” —-Peter might have fewer creases in his shirts.

      Rock = repetitive boredom

    77. Tinto Chiel says:

      Good to see The Guardian taking a tanking for all this: come back heed, all is forgiven 😉

    78. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Movy @ 20:01,

      My very reaction also.

      It seems the liberal-progressive mask has slipped at the Grauniad, and what is revealed is just another facet of a scared and defensive English Establishment (partisan LibLab flavour).

      Anti-Scottish hypocrites with their own manufactured scandals. The Tory infantile comics are one thing, but “serious” papers like the Graun have no excuse.

      Thepnr @ 19:31,

      Sevvy of course isn’t Scottish, strictly speaking, being born in England and with a northern-English (?) accent. Not that it would matter, if he weren’t IMO such an obvious propagandist for NorthBritLab instead of truly reflecting who we are, not just to ourselves but also to the remainder of the Graun-reading public, who are also being roundly cheated. (Even if the residual readership rather like it.)

    79. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      To hell with every last one of these worthless sacks of parasitic filth. And their hobby-horses.

      Corrected. (If I dare! =grin=)

    80. schrodingers cat says:

      tx ben, i agree,
      local leaflets are a must, their already exists templates for these, freely available from other yes groups, just ask on the natyesreg, of course you will need a bit of computing skills to input pictures and texts but it isnt too difficult. but once again i will reiterate, it will be you and your yes group who will have to do this, even if there were a yes scotland, they wouldnt have the local knowledge to do this. you only need 3 or 4, think about contacting one of the no to yes folk from the phantom power films in your area and make up a leaflet. that would make an excellent local leaflet. better still ask a winger to help you make it.
      but above all, do it now, this Drole de Guerre is the time for us to organise.

      I think Ben proves my point with the historic experiences in ireland, for all of the britnat control of the media, face to face discussions are far more important.
      it is also something the britnats cant do and we can.

      i think watching the babybox snpbad story really pissed me and everyone else off. we should channel this anger into out activism. lets not just get cross, lets get even


    81. Daisy Walker says:

      Here’s what I want, and it is beyond PATHETIC that the SNP have not already done this.

      A 2 minute video of the baby box, the history, the contents, the why of the contents, lots of lovely proud parents and baby shots, a voice over from Finland.

      The safety record, the GP’s story about the thermometer, and on and on.

      So much that is brilliant about it and yet the SNP sit on their complacent arses and DO NOTHING to counteract this bullshit.

      EVERY community council meeting, EVERY public meeting, EVERY damn chance they get – TAKE A BABY BOX. Let people see it and have an info pamphlet about how it came about for them to take away.

      AND IN THE WINDOW OF EVERY SNP OFFICE – A BABY BOX!!! And if not WHY NOT!!!!, all members get ready to roast their local SNP’s CA arses if they don’t. No excuse for it. And they wonder why they’re losing voters hand over fist. FFS.

      Use this as an opportunity to grandstand a fantastic initiative, and hit back at the bams.

    82. S.Perspective says:

      I do marvel at the short-sightedness of the opposition to the Scottish Government and to the baby box in particular. Hold the SG account by all means, but there is also such a thing as constructive opposition. Their job should be to take genuinely good proposals from the government and demand that they be improved, not destroyed just to spite the ruling party. The thing is, the baby box is being shipped to young mothers up and down the country who will be left wondering what the press and the political parties they represent were getting at. And make no mistake, young mothers talk to one another, and this was a hesitant group in 2014. So it might take a few months or a year, but this is likely to be a serious own-goal that will cost the press credibility and the Tories political capital.

    83. schrodingers cat says:

      re fracking
      I was against the ban, wanting to keep the moratorium as i was concerned about a legal challenge.

      perhaps its time, in for a penny in for a pound, once indyref2 is launch, institute the ban officially and let inios take holyrood to court

      i can see a “vote No and get fracked” leaflet being a very very convincing leaflet.

    84. PacMan says:

      Brian Doonthetoon says: 9 May, 2018 at 8:56 pm

      As others have pointed out above, “Tory Scum out” is not a vote-winning sentiment.

      I don’t mind the slogan “Red Tories Out” – it’s been a stalwart since 2014 and 2015’s GE. People who can think get that. But using the noun “scum” will win nobody over to our cause, for independence. It’s the “normal” people, who are waverers, whom we have to get voting for independence.

      Referring to them as “scum” is counterproductive.

      Red Tory was simple, direct and above all a truth that Labour had turned into something that was no different from Tories.

      Scum is a general term of abuse. Who is it aimed at? Individual Tories or all Tories? The Tories will end up using Tory scum as a badge of honour because that is what the sep’s call them as they oppose them. The inference then is that not only Tories are scum but anybody else who disagrees with or has any doubts about Scottish independence. See where it goes?

      That doesn’t mean that the Tories should be attacked. The origin of their name is Tòraidh, Gaelic for thief/outlaw. It came from the time before the safety of the modern banking system where real wealth laid in livestock. The Tòraidh stole and rustled livestock and in essence, their livelihood from ordinary decent people, literally starving them. They were the lowest of the low. They stole from the common wealth in order to better themselves and in doing so, depleted the common wealth.

      Their modern equivalent are doing the same thing. This needs to be highlighted for everyone to see the Tories for what they are but it can’t be done by heading for the gutter with immature student politicking. We have got to be smart.

    85. Daisy Walker says:

      And since I’m in the mood for a RANT, here’s more.

      I went tae Forfar and I went to see the Bletherin YES Shop.

      It was clearly signed,
      it had a flat screen TV in the window with Info Graphics / Myth Busters on 24/7.
      It had the front page of the National in the window
      It had badges, flags, T shirts, Mugs, books – all set out on display in the window.

      And on entering, more display shelves and a couch and a coffee table and a kettle on, and a welcoming smile.

      Compare and Contrast that with the SNP offices – big windows on main road (at least in Perthshire) with great big EffOff yellow stickers all over the windows.

      Does it tell you any info – naw, the only thing it tells you is to go away.
      Is it welcoming – Naw
      Does it entice you in – Naw

      Time and time again its highlighted at SNP meets the BBC bias and time and time again – they sigh and they shrug and they go – what can you do, dearie me.

      Well here’s what you can do – tear down the yellow plastic, rearrange the furniture so it becomes a hub, use the windows for info – posters, local info boards, merchandise – the Perth Branch has 2 Huge windows – on the Glasgow Road – who needs Billboards when you have that space!!!

      Put the Baby Box in the window along all the info – ask for / offer a baby picture competition with the baby box in it and display the winners – in the Window.

      And if money is an issue, they put posters on pdf format, ask members to print it off and display it in their cars – Every Car Is A Billboard.

      All of this they can do, now, with minimal cost. Take this up with them and if they do not do so, get them to say why, and if they do agree, nail them to a date of completion.

      The time when they could argue – oh we never thought of that – is now past – now its looking like Daft Laddie/Deliberate Heel Dragging. Not good enough by a long chalk.

      The SNP has no Mandate for Capitulation.

      Yes We Can and Now We Must.

    86. Big Jock says:

      Let Ruth jump on the Fracking band wagon. 80% of Scots and Msps are against it. She will only hurt her own party.

      Peter Bell is correct. No matter what the SG do they get trashed by the Tory press office. Why not announce Indy ref 2 and get them really angry.

    87. Jim Davidson says:

      Cut n paste, same old shite, irrelevant to topic, snpbad, Nicola shite, blah blah, yaddy yaddy, etc etc

      Once Independence is completed, wings will no longer be at the mercy of Rock, Rocky, etal, for what already feels like 622 years

    88. TheWasp says:

      This Libby person was on the round up after FMQs last week with big toodle-oo. She was bigging up the tRuthless Colonel in her summing up, and is obviously an anti SNP cheerleader.

    89. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      These fuckers are really being crawlimg about in the shit for the “local democracy reporters“ cash HM Government is syphoning to them allegedly via BBC License Dee (but as Auld Bob P frequently points out it is fae the general tax pot).

      Souls Sold for Neo Facist BritNat Gold.

      He’ll mend them all.

    90. Golfnut says:

      @ schrodingers cat

      Has the legislation for a ban on Fracking completed all the Parliamentary processes, and actually been passed by Parliament, if not the moratorium is still in place.

    91. winifred McCartney says:

      Just heard A Haggerty on Politics Scotland trying to roll back on her perception of Indy march last Saturday. She is just making a nice little earner for herself and is now afraid the picture in Sundays Herald was the last straw – well for me certainly it was and I hope for many, many others, that and her analysis of the baby box show where her true colours lie and it is not with indy, it is just with A Haggerty and her safe little snp a bit bad rhetoric which fulfils the bbc’s brief of an indy person on tv/radio but they know she will come up with the snp bad goods.

    92. Thepnr says:

      Robert J. Sutherland

      Thanks, I didn’t know where Severin Carrell was born, only that he lives in Edinburgh. I do know for certain that he was formerly Political correspondent of The Scotsman and Scotland on Sunday and is now Scottish Editor for The Guardian.

      I think that qualifies as a “Scottish journalist” though as shown by the great bulk of his Scots born Unionist colleagues writing for the rags he has fitted in perfectly since arriving.

    93. Dr Jim says:

      *Broacasting is a reserved *POWER* think about that

      Scotlands FM has to use social media to communicate anything to the country because the media only put on what they edited want, so in order to clear up the nonsense on the baby box it would have to be government money to put it on the telly which they’d then be critisised to hell even worse for spending government money on an (SNP vanity project) giving the media a bigger chance to do a program (with experts) informing the nation of how bad baby boxes are all over again making it even worse

      There’s only one way to solve the media problem in Scotland
      switch them off, and by that I mean do it like the UK government does when it suits them, get the lap top hacker guys on the job and just stop their signals, it’s not that difficult, countries are doing it all over the place, it’s the new future of war, everybody’s doing it

      As for the print media, well, just kill them, nobody’ll notice except the guys who want the papers for the horses and football

      *The power of broadcasting is reserved to Westminster*

      Now why would the idea of free speech be an issue over which a country needs power then refuses to allow part of that so called country to make use of that *freedom*

    94. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Winifred McCartney –

      Hear hear.

      It’s time for pro-indy BBC staff to take action.

      No-one will notice if a conscientious BBC Reporting Scotland camera-operator or GMS technician walks out, but if the well-kent pro-indy faces who get gigs in PQ (what few there are) take a stand then they’ll get support from workers right across the BBC, and other msm outlets.

      We’re in McCarthyite territory here. It’s a grotesque form of Call My Bluff where some are convincing themselves (and one another) that they can champion the indy cause by tolerating constant shite so long as they still have a ‘place at the table’. The illusion of ‘balance’ would become impossible if they simply refused to co-operate any longer. (I hesitate to use the word ‘collaborate’, but we’re not far off it.)

      Fuck the seat at the table – walk out and leave the faux-Yessers exposed for what they are. (We already know who they are, but most viewers/listeners don’t – there’s no logical reason why they should know, or even care.)

    95. Truth says:

      I’ve said it before, it’s not enough to not buy these rags and not give them internet traffic.

      We need to know who advertises with them and bring this sort of thing to their attention and explain we will no longer support companies that finance the running down of Scotland and her people.

    96. K1 says:

      Saw the article late/early hours yesterday, couldn’t bring myself to click on it…let them stew in their pish.

      It’s a sad sad reflection of their desperation we are witnessing. Epic levels of scorn poured on a ‘baby box’, how fucking low they have to go, cause they have nothing else left but to attack a baby’s box…that’s the real scandal. I mean a baby box ffs.

    97. Ken500 says:

      Another prophet of doom.

      The SNP/YES shop funded with SNP money, Full of SNP/YES printed leaflets. Mugs,merchandise etc. Information galore. Manned by volunteers. Mainly SNP members. Without Alex Salmond there would not have probably been an IndyRef. Without the SNP there would be no baby boxes. Yet some people want to sabotage the policues and use it against the SNP. Arrogance,

      The organisation kept to the YES participants, including Greens Greer. Information issues,leaks etc. Never resolved. Mainly funded by SNP funds. Still one of the most successful political campaigns ever. Increased support nearly doubled.

      The amount of so called Independence supporting folk, who want to cut off their nose to spite their face and constantly criticise the SNP. Total ignorance.

    98. Phronesis says:

      A segregated and impoverished society, a political system that is disconnected from the majority and making one foolish decision after another.
      It would be a scandal really if Scotland remained in its box.

      ‘Some 2640 ‘commoners’ are to be invited to the royal wedding with surprise golden tickets being awarded to schoolchildren at the nomination of regional lord lieutenants. Unlike Charlie in Roald Dahl’s novel, however, none of them will be given a chocolate factory at the end of their day’s holiday from poverty. In 2018, for the first time in many decades, there are entire local authority districts where a majority of children are growing up in poverty’

      ‘It is not Mrs May’s fault that she does not understand Britain. She was almost certainly never taught human geography well at her school or university and her advisors now are misinforming her still. She did not benefit from going to school where the most common language after English was Urdu. She did not go to a school with a wide cross section of society. She did not grow up in a diverse neighbourhood. She did not make friends later from a wide cross section. Why should we expect her to have integrated well?…

      We are a divided society because the wrong people are today in power; selfish, individualistic, nasty people from ‘the nasty party’ as Theresa May herself once called it. Until a government not sponsored by the rich and made up almost exclusively of the rich is in power we should not expect progress’

      ‘…If that happens, we are in danger of having perpetual Brexit. A final deal cannot be fudged, and the reality is that no deal is possible that will keep the Brexiters happy and be acceptable to the EU. The stumbling block is the Irish border: the EU will not negotiate an FTA that requires a hard border, and the Brexiters will not accept either the UK staying in the Customs Union (CU) and SM for goods, or a border in the Irish Sea. A crunch point could come at the end of 2020, but to avoid that May will plead for an extension which the EU may grant. And so it will go on: perpetual Brexit’

    99. Sandy says:


      Just watched ITV English news.
      Topic: “Royal” wedding.
      I have some questions that perhaps correspondents on here might be able to answer.

      1: How is this a royal wedding? (See 2)

      2: Who is paying for it, bride’s family or father or step-father, groom’s side, or will the guests be required to pay an entrance fee?

      3: What visa does the bride hold?

      4: Will they buy or rent their place of residence &, if renting, will that be through social security or, as Tories refer to it, welfare? Will they be means tested?

      Just asking.

    100. Tam the Bam. says:


      Brent Crude; $77.33 per barrel and likely to climb higher owing to the Iran situation.

    101. Ken500 says:

      The Guardian sells 18,000 in Scotland.

      Tries to get folk to give a £ when it has £1Billion in reserves. Run by Oxbridge graduates ruining the world.

      The Express has been sold or merged. Mirror group. The editor does not appove of previous headlines.

      The Herald DR sales have halved.

      JP Chairman, Ashley Highfield has gone. Worked in the BBC.

    102. schrodingers cat says:

      Daisy Walker

      no disrespect but the SNP hubs you mention are constituency MPs offices for constituents to walk in and consult their MPs. the staff are paid from uk government funds and it is a shit job btw, all sorts of folk with all sorts of various complaints turn up. they are very busy places and are no different from all other party shops anywhere in the uk. except the snp ones are more helpful. but they are funded by Westminster so that the elected mps can service all constituents.

      the yes hubs you mention are a different thing all together, the snp shops you mention wouldnt and couldnt be like a yes hub. too many rules and commitments stop this happening

      I like yes hubs and would urge many towns to have one, especially perth.

      sometime i wish i was as rich as the siu donors, if i had a million quid (small change for siu) i would open a hub in every town and village and pay for the organisation of yes scotland. unforunately, im not

    103. schrodingers cat says:

      Golfnut says:
      9 May, 2018 at 10:22 pm
      @ schrodingers cat

      Has the legislation for a ban on Fracking completed all the Parliamentary processes, and actually been passed by Parliament, if not the moratorium is still in place.
      I believe that is the gist of the legal case against Enios, my point being, such publicity surrounding any court case agaisnt holyrood would be advantagious to us. it isnt only yes supporters that dont like fracking

    104. Chick McGregor says:

      Steady Stu
      “To hell with every last one of these worthless sacks of parasitic filth. And their horses,”

      You’ll have the SSPCA on your case, on both counts. 🙂

    105. Ken500 says:

      London, New York and Berlin have the same drug problem. Similar Pizza comments Drug takers are inclined to tell lies in any case. How can their evidence be verified?

      London and Manchester higher murder rates in the UK. Violent crime.

      Iran, Afghanistan, UK, America and Russia have the highest rate of drug misuse.

      Mexico and Brazil has a high murder and violent crime rate. Bolivia. All on the drug trail.

      Russia was having a 11WW remembrance parade today. 26Million Russians died.

      Johnston trying to be PM would not last long with his criminal record. Gove, Farague, Banks and Murdoch are criminals who should be charged and convicted. The Press have been let off again. No continuation of the second phase of Leveson. The recommendations have not been put in place.

    106. Bob Mack says:

      Do I detect a hint of anger rising in the ranks? Good. It’s about bloody time we started hitting back and hitting hard.

      Daisy Walker, I love your idea. Let’s advertise instead of justifying all the time. Make opponents look foolish and small minded as they are

    107. Ken500 says:

      The SNP reps are not allowed to spend public money on YES campaigns. Unless they have a mandate. Ie legitimate mandate expense. The organisation of the actual vote (Polling stations) or research. Offices are funded from public money. Entirely different. They have to keep a strict check on it. Account for it. Only on legitimate expenses. Mundell is illegally using public money to get himself re elected. Sending out leaflets etc paid by public money. It should be funded by Tory Party funds.

      The only public money political Parties get is ‘short’ money. Given in proportion to numbers elected. It is only for legitimate expenses and research.

    108. Ken500 says:

      There is no fracking to be had in Scotland. Finished in the 1960’s. There is coal and CCS. The Tories shut it down. Reneged on CCS at Longannet and Peterhead, Offshore Oil & Gas. US Fracked Gas in imported into Grangemouth. Cheaper.

    109. schrodingers cat says:

      Ken500 says:

      There is coal and CCS. The Tories shut it down. Reneged on CCS at Longannet and Peterhead,
      after shell had spent £250 mill on the ccs i would add

    110. Thepnr says:

      @Ian Brotherhood

      It’s time for pro-indy BBC staff to take action.

      I feel the same way you day but can fully understand anyone’s reluctance to expose a political leaning towards Independence that might possibly cost them their livelihood.

      I can think of more than one from the BBC and newspapers where that looks to be the case.

      Others though might do what they can without giving anything away. We had a Wings stall at the Arbroath Seafest Aug 2014 and the photographer from The Dundee Courier was there.

      Talk about being surprised on the Monday when I say in the Courier the main picture on the front page with a large group of ladies dressed in tutus who had been raising money for one charity or other.

      There right behind them was the Wings stall with the YES Saltire flying and a big Wings banner hahaha. I think the photographer knew what he was doing but who can say for sure 🙂

      And for any desperate to know the purpose of the stall was to give leaflets out, articles we’d printed ourselves, talk to people and if we could, answer their questions.

      No money was raised in fact it was spent by the volunteers on that stall in many ways. I paid for the pitch as it’s a commercial venture. I paid for the generator hire so we could run laptops and find info online or offer a visitor a cup of tea by powering a kettle. We weren’t there to make money, we were there to help Scotland become Independent.

      Here’s a link to a few pictures of the day that I posted on Wings back then. This was not a YES event, it’s been going 20 years even Better Together were there. It was about being visible and just about everything you see with a Saltire or YES on it was from the Wings stall, except the Van of course 🙂 though the car belonged to another Winger.

    111. mogabee says:

      Fucking fuck the lot of them. My final word on the matter…

    112. schrodingers cat says:

      Ken500 says:
      9 May, 2018 at 11:43 pm
      There is no fracking to be had in Scotland. Finished in the 1960’s.
      altho, this is complete bollox

      having spent the last 20 years fracking formations in the north sea, i can assure you there are. why do you think inios are spending big bucks challenging holyrood in the courts?

      i oppose it because the fracking they propose is too close to the surface. hint, why do you think there are bings all around the proposed fracking areas? do you think our grand parents, including mine, carted this shit up a hole 3000 ft deep?

      yer haverin’ man

    113. Smallaxe says:


      I hope this helps, my friend.

      Why we are going to court to protect the fracking ban;

    114. schrodingers cat says:

      mogabee says:
      Fucking fuck the lot of them. My final word on the matter…
      fuck mogabee, dinna beat aboot the bush

    115. Stephen says:

      It’s time we marched on the unionist media in this country instead of aimlessly marching through the streets of Scotland.

    116. Cactus says:

      Next calling… Wings Over Dumfries.

      23 days remaining to go.

      Scotland’ll be there.

      II / VI / 2018.

    117. Still Positive says:

      I think it was liz g earlier who said she would have welcomed a baby box. So would we as new parents in 1972. It would have been a godsend to us and will be to many other new parents nowadays.

      F*** the MSM for trashing a brilliant initiative by the Scottish Government.

    118. auld highlander says:

      Not quite sure which is worse, the lying journos or the knuckle draggers in the previous post.

    119. Famous15 says:

      The knuckle draggers know no better than they were tellt at their daft faither’s knee.

      The journalists had to go to college to learn their lying and distorting and trashing all that is good in Scotland.

    120. Famous15 says:

      If there ever were a journalist to win a Pulitzer Prize on Scotland I wonder what the subject would be?

      Perhaps it would be the evils of the Scottish media.

      MSM please return to good journalism.As a democrat I hate having to criticise a “free” press.

    121. Cactus says:

      A welcome to Dumfries and Galloway:

      Use two fingers to move the map.

      Take a look around.

      FMQs today 🙂

    122. yesindyref2 says:

      It’s kind of a chain of evidence really that kind of goes back to Sevvie, and we all know what he is. Basically speaking support any part of the chain and they’re suspect. Either they’re stupid or worse.

    123. Macart says:


      “Either they’re stupid or worse.”

      Both, though not in equal measure. What they do, they do willingly and though reckless? It’s by no means thoughtless.

      Callous, heartless, cynical, motivated, but NOT thoughtless.

    124. manandboy says:


      Regrettably, a few delays to the upgrading of Scotland’s rail network. But at least we can be sure it will be done and that we are dealing with the country of Scotland, and not England, and certainly not ‘the country’ of the UK as the Prime Minister erroneously refers to it.

      Astonishing really as the holder of a degree in Geography from Oxford.

    125. silverbuick says:

      OT. Don’t have a link but I just watched David Mundell explaining to the Finance & Constitution Committee what the UKGOV means by ‘consent’ on Sorry if link was already posted but haven’t heard so much waffle in a while.

    126. Skintybroko says:

      Rey putting baby boxes in constituency windows etc., just another stick for the Scottish Conservative Unionist Media to beat the SNP with – all of a sudden they would back track and highlight some poor Mum who was unable to receive a box because the local SNP MP, MSP or Yes shop was displaying one and won’t give it up for anybody – you get the drift. Until we get a properly funded fully impartial media in Scotland that tells it as it is we are always going to be on the back foot – as many advocate don’t buy their news.

    127. gerry parker says:

      The PNR at 11:51.
      Thanks for the reminder, that was a great day at Arbroath, I remember Ian Murray turning up in his Jack jacket., the No thanks people were there too with few people showing interest, maybe cos they were flying their flag in distress mode. Me, Partrician and Jan, and brother JIm tasted the best Arbroath smokies ever that day. The gazebo nearly took off in a gust of wind but didn’t need any hairy string that day.

      Onward and upward.

      Dumfries next.

    128. Terry says:

      The MSM forget that the contact a mum has over the baby box is their midwife and I can’t see these professionals putting even the most unionist feelings they may have before what’s best for a baby.

      Any midwives on Wings? Tell us your experiences.

    129. The Isolator says:

      FFS that article is the journalistic equivalent of the distortion used by North Korea during the 2010 World Cup when Kim Jong-il ordered that the 7 nil drubbing by Portugal be reported as a nil nil draw.A result which led to the ultimate triumph of actually winning the tournament.

    130. Macart says:

      From the Rev’s twitter feed and a good catch.

      Remember now. It’s only shit if it’s Scottish.

    131. Smallaxe says:

      Good morning, Nana,
      Thank you for your links, it’s a beautiful morning here I hope you and everyone in Scotland are getting the same.
      Kettle’s on!

    132. Nana says:

      Good morning Smallaxe, not a bad looking day so far.

      First four links have not appeared, not sure if I hit submit key twice due to swollen fingers. They may appear later. No hammers please Rev.

      Government defeated the Leveson2 inquiry by nine votes 304-295 . There were five Tory rebels. The DUP supported the government after they were offered a new press watchdog for Northern Ireland.

      No part of the UK has more at stake in the decision to leave the European Union than the Northeast of England.

    133. Ken500 says:

      There is no fracking to be had in Scotland. Not worth the effort. It did die out in the 60’s. Look it up.

      US fracked Gas in imported into Grangemouth. Cheaper. It is a bit hypocritical to ban fracking but use it? Maybe it is this they are trying to protect.

      There is coal. CCS. The Tories reneged on promises at Longannet and Peterhead. Banned coal in UK and onshore turbines in England (Pickles). Overcharged connections. The Tories over taxed the Oil sector affecting production. Losing Scotland £Billions and thousands of jobs. Brexit will do the same.

      Scotland is surplus in fuel and energy and nearer the source. Exports 25%+ Pays more pro rata because it is colder. The energy companies wanted to take that into consideration Westminster refused permission. A tax on the whole Scottish economy. The Scottish Gov is setting up a non profit company to make fuel and energy more competitive. Another great initiative.

      If the journey times in Scotland could be lowered. It could rival air travel. Westminster Tories are spending and wasting £Billions in HS2 which will make journey times throughout Britain take longer and be more expensive. Changes and two tier subsidised service Journey times in the north of England and Scotland take twice as long because of years of historical lack of investment.

    134. Socrates MacSporran says:

      I had a quick look on the Guardian’s website this morning. It is still impossible to post a btl comment on Dani Garavelli’s terrible article on baby boxes. Sheer cowardice on the part of the Guardian.

      It is also impossible to post a comment on The Orangeman’s company’s decision to ban Irn-Bru from Trump Turnberry.

      I shall therefore be forced to make a huge sacrifice. The lady in my life, aka “The Farmer’s Daughter” wants to treat me to the Sunday Brunch at Turnberry. This is so-popular, pre-booking a month ahead is necessary. There is now a space for two for the 17 June Sunday Brunch.

      That is my small protest at banning our other national drink.

    135. Abulhaq says:

      Truly, it is a beshitten tribe that guards and services ‘the Union’.

    136. Nana says:

      Apologies Rev, just spotted the banned word in one of the links.

      Must make appointment with optician!

      Check back later Wingers for them to appear and also to see if I’m still alive should the hammers descend.

    137. Ken500 says:

      What would happen if Tomkins wife was chucked out by the Tories. Overstayed or not welcome? The fate of many others. Half the Cabinent are married to ‘foreigners’. Neil is married to a Swede. They have such a cheek defending Tory policy. Total hypocrites. Johnston was raised on EU money. EU diplomat father. Got his priveliged education totally free. What a hypocrite.

    138. Macart says:

      Morning Nana

      Plenty to choose from as usual and here’s another. It’s about a small country with big ideas.

      Something familiar in there…

    139. Greannach says:

      Yes, the papers are crap.
      Yes, broadcast news is like a government newsreel.
      Yes, they are never going to change.
      So –
      Don’t buy papers. Don’t read their websites. Don’t watch BBC or ITV news.

    140. ronnie anderson says:

      I’ll say it until am blue in the face ( i don’t do woad ) CUT OF THE HEAD OF THE SNAKE BBC by Legal means . There is enough miss leading information & bias evidence in the public domain to challenge them in court , then the Print Press will draw their necks in .

    141. Nana says:


      Goodness me Sam, who would have thought a wee country like Finland could be so progressive. Baby boxes, wow what a wonderful idea.

      Maybe someone can tell me what is so very different to the baby boxes our government are offering our newborns.

      No doubt what calls itself ‘a journalist’ will be along any minute now to pour more petrol on our aspirations. They have had a lot of practice recently.

    142. Dr Jim says:

      Journalism is a responsibility:

      If a boat builder built a bad boat deliberately because he had a grudge against the passengers who were going to use it and it sank that builder would never ever be allowed to build another boat and would be jailed

      Journalists build lies and misinformation and distortions of the truth that affect society every day to deliberately sink the moral of a country by propogating the values either they uphold or are instructed to uphold by the newspapers or broadcaster they are employed by, so when these *journalists* are found out and caught doing it then other *journalists* weigh in defending their actions with platitudinal language about it all being not their fault, sorry but it is, and they should be dealt with the same way as the boat builder, never allowed to be a *journalist* ever again

      But then again *journalists* seem to have no pride or remorse just indignation and arrogance when they’re caught using their unfettered power to have a laugh at the people they’re paid to mislead, they have the right to misinform, they have the right to not tell the truth, they have the right not to report news, but apparently the people don’t have the right to be angry

    143. Robert Peffers says:

      @Daisy Walker says: 9 May, 2018 at 9:57 pm:

      “Here’s what I want, and it is beyond PATHETIC that the SNP have not already done this.”

      Yep! There it is – it never takes too long.

      It’s Daisy Walker’s turn to make the story into SNP BAAAAAD! today.

      I pointed out a long time ago, here on Wings, that the best course of action for the SNP was to NOT get involved in this self-defeating, “Scotland is shite, and it’s all because the SNP are BAAAAD!”, media idiocy. A media idiocy inspired by the Westminster Establishment’s propaganda attacks by the triumvirate of unionist political parties.

      Quite simply to have become involved would have lowered the SNP to the same extreme low level that we see now on a half-hourly basis from the broadcast media and upon an on-line and black upon white daily basis from the dead tree press.

      The point being that you should never interrupt your enemy while they are making tactical errors – and this absolutely ridiculous “SNP BAAD! – Scotland is shite”, campaign by the Westminster Establishment is now doing, (what it obviously was not meant to do), back-firing massively upon its perpetrators.

      Now I ask you – would that have happened if the SG had lowered themselves to the Westminster Establishment’s lowest level?

      That great big march through the streets of Glasgow suggest otherwise. You do not fight chimpanzee shite throwing attacks by throwing shite back at chimpanzees – most humans are better than chimpanzees.

      So just where does that leave the SMSM, UK MSM and their Westminster Establishment sponsors?

      The answer is, (as most commenters here on Wings demonstrate), looking foolish, childish and utterly ridiculous.

    144. Dorothy Devine says:

      Macart , that Finland sounds like a progressive place – much to be learned and adopted by another wee country wouldn’t you say?!

      Nana , thanks for the links – hope the hammers don’t getcha!

      Thepnr, glad you reposted those photos , absolutely brilliant.

    145. Tinto Chiel says:

      @Ian Brotherhood 10.44:

      “It’s time for pro-indy BBC staff to take action.”

      Yes but how many such folk exist at PQ, Ian? I don’t know how you could go into your work every day knowing you were complicit in the relentless trashing of your country.

      Both my wife and I, at considerable cost emotionally and financially, had to change jobs because of disputes with a corrupt and bullying management. It’s unpleasant and stressful but leaving is better than condoning or perpetuating what you know is just plain wrong. I’m sure many of the thrawn and ornery “malcontent” (boss expression) types who post here have had similar experiences, with similar responses.

      It’s difficult to gauge numbers because any BBC employee posting on here, even with a pseudonym, could be taking a risk but Grouse Beater’s picture of PQ management as an authoritarian hierarchy which is intolerant of any deviation from rampant Britnattery must make working there hellish if you care about Scotland.

      Every day the management in that building think up new ways to stick a knife into Scotland’s heart, and all delivered with a knowing smirk from Jackie Bird at half six. I think I’d be consulting Situations Vacant if I were independence-minded.

      As those peerless fillossifers The Who once said, “Wot ye gonna do about it?”

    146. Macart says:


      TBH Nana, I’m fairly gutted at the actions of the media over this. They’ve pulled some pretty despicable stunts over the years, but using the poor, the expectant mother, and an aid that has stood the test of time and use. That has seen plaudits the world over for its introduction and its effectiveness in reducing infant mortality?

      As the title ATL alludes, they’ve truly reached a new low.

      Truly struggling to keep it clean whilst typing about now Nana.

    147. Tinto Chiel says:

      “There is enough miss leading information & bias evidence in the public domain to challenge them [the BBC] in court.”

      Agreed, Ronnie. This is an unorthodox example I came across recently but we know of plenty more down-to-earth cases:

    148. Robert Peffers says:

      @Daisy Walker says: 9 May, 2018 at 10:15 pm:

      “And since I’m in the mood for a RANT, here’s more.”

      Yup! In definitely seems it is Daisy Walker’s turn today to convert Rev Stu’s article about unwarranted attacks upon the SG/SNP back into a story that makes it seem it is all the SNP/SG’s fault.

      Strange, is it not, that almost everyone else seems to be of the opinion that it is the SMSM, the broadcasters and the Westminster Establishment unionists that are the bad guys.

      But no! Someone just has to turn that into it being all the AG/SNP’s fault.

    149. Smallaxe says:

      Life in Faslane: 50 years of nuclear submarines on the Clyde;

      These can burn babies with or without a baby box.
      Get them out!

    150. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Thepnr at 11:51 pm

      You typed,
      “Here’s a link to a few pictures of the day that I posted on Wings back then. This was not a YES event, it’s been going 20 years even Better Together were there. It was about being visible and just about everything you see with a Saltire or YES on it was from the Wings stall, except the Van of course ? though the car belonged to another Winger.

      I scanned a pic from the Courier. You can see it here (scroll down):-

    151. Luigi says:

      Robert Peffers says:

      10 May, 2018 at 8:55 am

      “You do not fight chimpanzee shite throwing attacks by throwing shite back at chimpanzees – most humans are better than chimpanzees.”

      LOL. That, Robert, is a keeper!. 🙂

      Fos as long as 100 of us remain, knee deep in chimpanzee shite….

    152. Nana says:


      I and likely all Wingers are with you in your rage at the media.

      I do feel the more hysterical they become the more it helps us towards Independence, I mean surely even the most doubting Thomas must be sitting and thinking “Geez is Scotland really such a mess”

      However I do think now is the time we should be talking with people and passing on the good things our SNP government are doing, strike up conversations with anyone you may be standing next to in a queue, a hospital or doctors waiting room, anywhere at all. I do this all the time 🙂

      It’s up to all of us to get going. I don’t believe we should be waiting for a starting gun. As someone of my acquaintance always says “campaigning never stops”

    153. Dr Jim says:

      Jacob Rees Mogg who everyone acknowledges is a constitutional expert says:

      *The decisions of one government cannot bind the next government*

      So let’s all take that in and remember it folks because that means every few years any government can do whatever the hell it wants irrespective of what it said before

      Of course if that applies to the English Parliament it surely must apply to ours

    154. Bill McLean says:

      These useless so-called journalists should be asking why, in this most wonderful, rich, UK, young mothers have to be given baby boxes, why the Scottish Government has to mitigate the bedroom tax and why their current favourites led by the Tank Commander are in favour of the “rape clause”. Worst of all 2 of them are women! I expect better of women for some reason but should remember Thatcher and this current disaster! Sorry ladies i’m on your side totally but so sickened by Garavelli and Brooks!

    155. Conan the Librarian says:

      Re those photos: I haven’t heard from Paula Rose in a while, Is everything OK?

    156. louis.b.argyll says:

      The UK is a hate crime.

    157. Proud Cybernat says:


      Paula Rose is just fine – saw a few of her tweets on the Twitter place over the last couple of days.

    158. Smallaxe says:

      Conan the Librarian says:
      “Re those photos: I haven’t heard from Paula Rose in a while, Is everything OK?”

      Paula was fine yesterday commenting as usual, but my lips are sealed as to where.

    159. Thepnr says:

      @Brian Doonthetoon

      Yes that’s the picture I remebered from the Courier. Cheers 🙂

    160. gus1940 says:

      On the subject of ‘Every Car A Billboard’ The SNP have over 100k members and periodically send mailshots to them.

      Next time they do a mailshot why don’t they include a selection of car stickers for the members to use but also a few to hand out to other independence supporters who may not be party members.

      Additionally produce information cards both in credit card and playing card sizes plus beer mats to scatter in places such as pubs, supermarkets, buses, trains and on newspaper racks.

      Stickers like the old 70s ‘It’s Scotland’s Oil’ ones but with non-permanent adhesive.

      To combat the media lies, threats and distortion Blitzkreig the nation with information ( truth) using all of the above.

    161. Daisy Walker says:

      Re Yes Hubs and SNP Offices

      It may well be that the SNP are not allowed to ‘campaign’ for Yes when there is no Referendum booked, and need to keep strict accounts of all that they do when its on, however, the recent judgement by the Electoral Commission regarding SIU has opened that up somewhat – legal president and all that.

      What they are allowed to do, what they have a duty to do, is keep the electorate updated with accurate information.

      A great big window covered in yellow stickers doesn’t do that. And that’s not good enough.

      The ‘scandal’ of the baby boxes arguably opens up a public health concern (will a vulnerable young mother now be so concerned by all the bad publicity they will refuse same?) – the Scottish Government and the SNP now have a Duty to rectify this disinformation.

      By putting a baby box in their office window – they keep costs to a minimum, they prevent anyone criticising them for ‘misusing public money’ to advertise a party ‘vanity project’ – and of course, if they’ve got any sense they ask a recent parent to lend them the box so that no new mother is delayed in receiving theirs.

      Any person who has worked with the great general public, in all its glory, will know just how challenging that is, and while I have every sympathy that the SNP offices have a great deal of work to do, they can and should have a front facing, meet and greet section, where members of the public can attend and find out information about Everything.

      Does that sound challenging, impossible even, yes, most definitely, but I’m putting the SNP right at the heart of their communities, and right at the heart of this Independence movement, and I’m calling them out, right now, and saying they’re missing open goals left right and centre, and that is not good enough.

      And they’ve had 4 years, of being told, and still they do not address it. If their current method is so brilliant, why are they losing votes?

      The SNP Office on the Glasgow Road, Perth – one of the main, busiest routes into Perth – has 2 huge windows. Currently covered in useless, unfriendly, unwelcoming big yellow stickers.

      Oh and did I mention its right next to a bus stop! When your waiting for a bus, its human nature to window shop.

      That has to change – at least one of those windows should now be a billboard.

      It costs between £2000 – £4000 to hire a billboard for a 6 week period. The bulk of the cost is in the hire of site. Lets get the full bang for our buck out of these SNP Office Locations.

      And if, if there is a by-law that says we cannae, lets, do it anyway, and by the time they fight it, 6 – 8 weeks of advertising will have been achieved.

      And if direct campaigning is your worry – here’s what you do, you show a Fantastic Full Colour Picture of

      The Queensferry Crossing – and under it, in big words that no-one can miss you put
      On Time and Under Budget

      And then you put a Great Big Thank You to all the many local businesses were employed in the construction.

      As of now, it should no longer be possible for any person to drive past or walk past an SNP Office without absorbing (even if they don’t want to) a fantastic piece of information about Scotland.

      As of now, anyone who wants to know information about Yes, about local policy, about Marches for Indy, the SNP office should be the one of the first points of contact.

      When Indy Ref 1 was on – if you went to their website – there was nothing on it, nothing. Word of mouth got us to Wings Over Scotland and Women for Indy and, and, and.

      If cost is an issue – and cost is always an issue – you put an info graph poster on your website and you make it pdf printable. Then you ask/tell your members to print it off and put it in their windows – home and car. Every Car Is a Billboard.

      You want to reach young people – you do a competition, poster, t-shirt, short video – winner gets £1000, plus extensive publishing. You pick the theme –

      Born In The NHS – Scotland

      40 years on in the Union and Still no Dueled A9

      Devo Max Vow and All I got was a shitty Road Sign

      English Votes For English Wars

      You do a deal with Chris Cairns and start printing T shirts and Mugs, and start selling them and wearing them.

      When you go on TV for an interview – in nice clear letters you wear a badge with your e-mail address, and as soon as they start the constant interruptions, you point to it, smile sweetly and say, I’ll put the full answer on the website.

      But most of all, the SNP needs to realise, this is not business as usual, and ‘they know best’. This is now the fight of our lives. They cannot leave any stone unturned and any ideas in the cupboard.

      And for those, in the SNP, who do not have this sense of urgency, who don’t have the stomach for it, it may well be time for you to be honest about that and step aside for the plenty that do.

      This post will upset and annoy many people. Get over it. The above is 100% constructive criticism – you want to shoot the messenger, go right ahead, but what a waste of energy. Better, much better, to get down to your local SNP Office and start helping to pull off the yellow stickers on the windows and get started on implementing the above.

      Failing that you can just start whinging – yet again – about how nasty the BBC is. Your choice.

      Yes we can and now we must.

    162. Archbishop of Dork says:

      The putative Guardian projects its shortcomings onto others once again.

      And what the hell is “anti-expert sentiment”? You mean refusing to be cowed by an opinionated and agenda driven individual just because they have a doctorate or master’s degree to their name?

    163. gus1940 says:

      Surely it would not be impossible to have a YES stall on every High St. in the land every saturday well stocked with the items I mentioned above but also with flags and other campaign stuff for sale.

    164. Bill McLean says:

      Really sick of the media in Scotland and especially the pretend journalists who will use any flimsy excuse to attack the Scottish Government and the hence people in Scotland. This attack on baby boxes highlights, more than anything, how biased, ignorant and thoughtless these “journalists” are. Why,in this most wonderful and richest and super-duper UK, with British values which everyone knows are the best in the world, why, do young mothers have to be given baby boxes? Why don’t they question the Scottish Government having to mitigate the bedroom tax? Why don’t they ask the Tank Commander about her party’s acceptance of “the rape clause” -and there are a myriad of questions that could be asked of this incompetent, dishonest UK Government. We here all know the answer! Really disappointed that these two are women. I have great admiration and respect for the female of the species but Garavelli and Brooks are a total disgrace! Sorry ladies i’m very mmuch on your side and hope you are all as disgusted by these two as I am!

    165. Ken500 says:

      YES car sticker just fell off. Still one left. There will be plenty more when the next IndyRef date is announced. Once the Brexit dust has settled. It would be difficult to have an IndyRef in the middle of the Brexit mess. People would not know for which they vote. The terms of any settlement. The SNP Gov is still standing up for Scotland. Support is still rising despite the BBC and negative Press reporting. The Guardian has reported the March. Fairly? Not all negative.

      Westminster has no right deporting people from Scotland. A totally inappropriate migration policy for the UK.

    166. Proud Cybernat says:

      It’s not just that the entire UK/Scotland media (BBC, Record, Hate Mail, Express, Herald et al), are in a ‘Scotland is Shite’ frenzy it’s the TARGET and their expected OUTCOME of this relentless negativity against Scotland.

      The extended logic is, of course, that the SNP must be a shite government becaue they are the ones in charge of and causing all this shiteness.

      Certainly I can see how the feeble minded would fall for this insidious negativity – the same people who carp “Ah hate that Nikla Sturjin” and, when challenged, can’t tell you WHY they hate her so much. Same with “that AlicSammin”. These are weak-minded folk who really can’t think for themselves; who cannot see beyond the headlines and say to themselves, “Wait a wee damn minute here – ma Mary said the baby box was sooperb. Whit does the [insert poisonous rag of choice] mean it’s shite?”

      These rags (and BBC / STV) know exactly what they are doing. Painting everything in Scotland in a negative light (even when things in Scotland are actually improving for many of its poorest citizens) and blame the SNP for it all and, hopefully, if enough swivel-eyed fools out there believe it, the presstitutes will achieve their desired regime change in Scotland; they will have effected the overthrow of a democratically elected govt with lies.

      And when the BritNats take control of Holyrood then you can kiss goodbye to Holyrood; they will gleefully hand powers back to London; pass all sorts of motions that will effectively ensure Holyrood is hamstrung and cannot ever hold another IndyRef.

      We simply MUST get out of this rancid, crippling Union before the Holyrood BritNats get the chance to knee-cap us.

    167. Robert Peffers says:

      @Bob Mack says: 9 May, 2018 at 11:39 pm:

      “Do I detect a hint of anger rising in the ranks?”

      Probably not, Bob Mack, as I’ve pointed out already, it is just the usual attempts by some commuters to turn Stu’s article about the Westminster supported media being bad into that Westminster Establishment inspired media portray as SNP BAAAAD! and that Scots and Scotland are shite.

      Only someone with a twisted view could attempt to turn an article about the MSM being the lowest of the low into an attack on the SG/SNP, but that is what is going on right here on Wings by people who claim to be indy supporters.

    168. Jim Davidson says:

      @Robert Peffers
      Your attack on Daisy is well out of order. She was merely venting her frustration that SNP don’t fight back in these situations. It can be infuriating but I agree with you that its a pointless exercise. Not everyone sees it that way, and her suggestion re promotional video is actually a good one.
      As for her second post, she obviously is not aware of the rules and restrictions regarding constituency offices. So perhaps educate her politely rather than have a go.
      I hate to say it but Rocky 11 is right about one thing, there are those on here who will not accept criique of the SNP, regardless if its unfounded or not. Challenge the opinion not the person

    169. louis.b.argyll says:

      Daisy Walker, are you really driving to other areas just to assess their commitment to indy, then attacking Scotland’s governing party, based on your assumptions of their failings regarding lack of counter-measures to already exposed media manipulation?
      The SNP are a political party. (FFS- as you say)

    170. Proud Cybernat says:

      “In definitely seems it is Daisy Walker’s turn today to convert Rev Stu’s article about unwarranted attacks upon the SG/SNP back into a story that makes it seem it is all the SNP/SG’s fault.”

      Out of order, Robert Peffers. Daisy has clearly presented CONSTRUCTIVE criticism and I, for one, agree with much of what she has said in her post. The SNP need to get the finger oot and start being more pro-active in getting information out to the masses to combat the overwhelming poison of the MSM in this country because, if they don’t, they could very well find enough minds are poisoned against them and that they’ll be out of office at the next Scottish Election (in an indy Scotland or not).

      The grassroots can only do so much to counter this.

    171. louis.b.argyll says:

      Jim, it’s not the positive, secondary content that myself and others decry, it’s the personal nature, the ‘SNP should be ashamed..etc’ that has no traction on here.

    172. Ken500 says:

      The Constituency Offices are not SNP hubs. They are Gov funded. Their is a strict division between. SNP Party (funds) and Gov representation (public funds). Public money cannot be used for Political Party purposes. Except for ‘short’ money Unless there is a mandate. Ie to fund research or expense of physical polling activities. Polling stations etc. Constituency offices are not YES hubs. They have to be set up separately.

      There are supposed to be strict political Party expense for fairness. The unionists constantly break these rules. Arron Banks funded the Leave campaign £20Million before the electoral limits can into place. Also broke data protection Laws. Where did this money come from and why has he not been charged. Farague has beenfunding a political Party with public money for years. Not putting in accounts.

      SNP funds have financed the YES campaign. Legally. Yet ignorant people constantly slag off the SNP. 1/2million people did not come out to vote last GE. Letting the Tories in. Yet many of these people are supposed to support Independence and EU membership. People still vote Labour. Yet they do not support Independence or EU membership. The unionists changed the voting system. To try and keep the SNP out of power. They gang up together to keep the SNP out. 3rd rate rejects. They are a disgrace.

      The reason the SNP Gov can support good policies without fear or favour is because they are funded by their members. Not banks, business or trade unions. No pressure or persuasion. MUP.

    173. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Daisy Walker @ 09:56,

      You make a fair point there, Daisy. Positive suggestions for being more imaginative and proactive, and you seem to have lots! I do hope the right people are paying attention, and taking it in the way it’s clearly intended.

      And in no way to be confused with predictable attack propaganda by the usual suspects.

    174. louis.b.argyll says:

      OK, so it’s OK to do SNPBAD on here if you mitigate that with frustration?

    175. Daisy Walker says:

      Its not a hint of anger…. it is FURY, white hot fury, that is absolutely focused.

      And for the record, I don’t claim to be an indy supporter.


      There is not one single good legitimate reason why my suggestions have not been implemented by the SNP – not one.

      Every single idea – benefits the Yes movement and benefits the SNP.

      If someone with a fancy suite, from a fancy company, came along and charged them a fortune for the same ideas – they would bite their arm off.

      These are desperate times, not chosen, not optimal, not business as usual, not ca cannae. Desperate times and all hands need to be at the pump.

      You don’t like my tone – fine, you don’t like the SNP being criticised – understood, believe it or not under normal circumstances I would agree. We’re not in normal, normal is a long way away, you want normal, we are all going to have to fight for it, and right now the SNP are not on the same page, not using every tool in the box, not doing good enough.

      You don’t like the idea of every SNP Office window being a Billboard with poster of the Queensferry Crossing, fine

      Lets make it a huge poster of the Baby Box, and all the good, valid, evidenced reasons for it.

      Now we must.

    176. HandandShrimp says:

      Just completed an SNP survey sent out by Peter Murrell in which a number of the issues Daisy raises are mentioned. There are moves afoot to modernise and mobilise.

      Constructive suggestions are always welcome and I didn’t have an issue with Daisy wanting her local SNP office to have more going on in the window space. Our own local SNP hub does do that. We need to use the resources we have to counter the absolute nonsense the MSM are churning out because they will only get worse once Indyref2 is launched (assuming there is anything left to burn).

    177. Proud Cybernat says:

      OK, so it’s OK to do SNPBAD

      Constructive criticism is NOT SNP BAD.

    178. Ken500 says:

      The SNP can’t do these things sometimes expected of them because people voted NO. If people vote YES they will have more control of Reserved issues. Or vote SNP/SNP. Vote for Independence. Thousands of SNP votes are throw in the bin under the D’Hondt system. Many people do not even know how it works. Can be persuaded or deceived to give their vote away.

    179. Chick McGregor says:

      Daisy et al.
      We ran a video loop 24/7 in our Yes shop window during indyref1.

      It was about half an hour long, content varied throughout the campaign.

      Main format was videos interspersed with Colin Dunn posters/leaflet type reading material as a kind of ad break.

      Also some home created content, videos, leaflets animations. Some of the videos we subtitled since no sound allowed out to street.

      I have some of the output (out of date now) up on you tube if anyone wants to see it.

      Loop opener

      On line media promo

      Celeb backing video

      There are a few more still on YT but not sure how many YT links are allowed in one post.

    180. Robert Louis says:

      The long term plan with all these fake stories from the herald, the laughingly titled ‘Scotsman’ and the blatantly anti Scotland BBC that make the SNP look bad, is what is most important. You see, in a few years time, when an election is held, the likes of Glenn Campbell will gleefully throw it at the SNP over and over again.

      Pre – election interviews with NS will go something like this;

      So First Minister, your government’s record is somewhat difficult to defend, isn’t it.. I mean we have the ‘baby box scandal’ which has left new parents ‘scared’ and which you still haven’t resolved (that’s because their is no scandal – it was wholly manufactured by the ‘media’), you have been in charge of the most appalling rail performance (it’s the best in the UK), the NHS has been failing over and over again (the best performing in the UK), and ‘critics’ have decried your free tuition policy (much envied by students outside Scotland).

      When NS tries to answer, the likes of Glenn Campbell, will gleefully cite newspaper headline after newspaper headline, citing ‘quotes’ from people, lying BBC ‘documentaries’ etc…

      THAT is what is being done. It is a clear attempt to undermine the SNP/Scotgov, and effectively create a false documented narrative as part of history.

      In such circumstances, you either attack or defend. In my opinion, the SNP policy is too much skewed towards defending.

    181. Ken500 says:

      Stubborn. Prophet of doom. Despite the decline in the Press and Indy support rising as the young folk come on board. Half empty or half full?

    182. Ken500 says:

      Sometimes it is not economical possible to have an SNP office/shop all the time. The branches have to bear the cost. £6000 a year. When it is not in full use. There are other expenses and campaigns where the money can be put to better use. Or just to build up funds for the next campaign. Electoral expenses can be quite high.

    183. louis.b.argyll says:

      Daisy, PC, am cool with and respect your points, and Robert’s.

      It’s difficult to (constantly) bite one’s tongue, cross ones fingers and wink, that’s wink, when some underlying frustrations mirror the divisions sewn against us.


    184. Shug says:

      To e to put a notice on all newspaper stands

      Do not buy fake news

    185. Jim Davidson says:

      Seems there are a few unwritten rules for posting on here. For example its ok to use personal and emotive language when being critical about Tories etc but not the SNP. Its ok to be disgusted at the Tories but not ok to be ashamed of the SNP.
      Some great ideas in recent post, they’re may be issues with some given the restrictions re constituency offices but could easily be used by yes hubs. Although beware, one persons constructive criticism is another’s SNPBAAAAD

    186. Ken500 says:

      The British Press put down Scotland and the SNP since 1928 and before. They always made false claims etc. They get away with it less now. The SNP Gov being there and running Scotland more successfully is leading to a decline in the Press and BBC. They are getting found out. All over the UK/world. Delusional. The non Dom, tax evading Press is failing. BBC is recognised as a propaganda machine in right wing Gov control. £3,7Billion for nonsense. People just have to access the internet to find out.

    187. Breeks says:

      No surprise of course, but I’m with Daisy Walker.

      It’s all very well keeping the roadster in mint condition, polishing in the chrome every Sunday and keeping the engine in tip top condition, and having the nicest, best turned out car in the parish. If you don’t take it out on the road, then what’s the essential point of having it?

      We are running out of time, especially for the comfortable, softly softly approach to Indy. Daisy isn’t commenting about what the SNP does with its offices, it’s the prevailing attitude and complacency she is uncomfortable about, and the growing risk of disconnection between the SNP and a significant % of Yessers who want “more” than they’re currently getting. I’ve got a Saltire emblazoned with EU stars. Those are the colours I’ll stand by.

      Brexit is the enemy at the gate, the assault upon Scotland’s Sovereignty which has to be defeated – both for the rabid stupidity of Brexit itself and to subvert our Constitutional subjugation. We cannot accept either, because they are one and the same assault upon Scotland’s existential interests.

      Keep it binary. We choose YES for Independence and solidarity with Europe, or its NO, and insular exploitation and subjugation by the spivs and sociopaths in London.

    188. Ken500 says:

      The state of the unionist Parties in Holyrood. Please. Making a feel of themselves every week. Laughable. Nicola wipes the floor with them every week. Imagine not voting and letting the Tories in. Shame.

    189. Terence callachan says:

      The Scottish media ?
      We will get them once Scotland is independent
      England won’t employ them
      We will run them out of the country
      They have it coming to them
      They have nowhere to hide here
      I’m looking forward to it
      When they appear on tv or radio for the last time saying
      but but but I was only doing my job I’m really a Scottish independence supporter
      Replies will be …tough ,we didn’t believe you then we don’t believe you now ..beat it

    190. Clootie says:

      David Leask is a very dangerous unionist. He plays on the old image of journalism. Like the BBC “trusted” status. They are a legacy of the “Pathe News” world presentation of events.
      He denies his bias because to him it is not bias. Seeking a view from him is akin to asking the Tory Party to report.on the impact of austerity.

      The elite will continue to run the UK because of loyal servants like Mr. Leask.

      The cries of “fake news” abound due to the simple fact that they are no longer trusted…and why are the MSM no longer believed…they lie and have lied for years.
      The story of Scotland in print is clear proof of their failure to report facts in a honest manner.

      I will not shed a tear as they are closed. I prefer no formal media to this pack of hired propaganda hacks.

    191. louis.b.argyll says:

      Daisy, ‘We’re not in normal, normal is a long way away, you want normal, we are all going to have to fight for it, and right now the SNP are not on the same page, not using every tool in the box, not doing good enough’.

      I agree, (except the ‘not good enough’ bit) we are in exceptional times..remember the SNP can’t always be on the same page as it’s activists, they govern for all Scots, they must proof-read every ‘page’ and ‘action’ before turning to the next.

      The Yes Movement and the SNP do ‘compliment’ eachother in a wider sense.

      One can be knee-jerk, reactionary, one can not.

    192. Ian Brotherhood says:

      John Swinney has just been taking calls on Kaye Adams’ show.

      It’s not that long since Reporting Scotland depicted him presenting a nazi salute whilst sporting a Hitleresque tash/shadow.

      This is just one small example of what drives so many of us up the fuckin wall – why is John Swinney dealing with people who portayed him in that way without so much as an apology being offered?

      Is it SNP-bad to even suggest that he, and many other SNP figures, should tell the BBC where to go until/unless they at least *acknowledge* that they have a serious problem?

      The evidence is voluminous, academically tested, and the techniques are well-known. It’s not ‘conspiracy theory’ and so there’s simply no excuse for allowing it to continue unchallenged.

      If pointing this out makes me some kind of thread-derailing tractor then so be it. I’m with Daisy.


    193. Smallaxe says:

      We are all on here for one purpose, that purpose is to free Scotland from Westminster rule.
      All ideas on how we go about it are welcome but remember that the enemy is watching and commenting, please don’t give them ammunition to fire back at us.

      Every time we argue a unionist gets his jollies. Please keep it peaceful, my friends.

      Thank you, all.

    194. Breastplate says:

      Quite right Daisy.
      For others criticising Daisy, there is a world of a difference between constructive criticism and SNPbad.
      The very idea that the SNP are not fallible and implement the optimum strategy to advance independence at every turn is absolutely farcical.

      When the SNP do get their strategy wrong, it certainly makes me wonder who is the driving force behind bad advice.
      I believe this to be a perfectly logical stance.

    195. Dr Jim says:

      The money the SNP has is paid in by donations and ME and 120.000 thousand other members and WE the members are consulted on what our party decides to spend our money on

      If folk want to tell the SNP how and on what to spend my and 120.000 others money on they can get themselves a say on that when they join and pay their money in

      If you don’t buy a share in the ice cream company you don’t get to decide what flavour it sells and it’s the companys responsibility to its shareholders to optimise its finances in the best way it sees fit

      The SNP can’t count on never ending supplies of big money like the Unionist parties, Scotland is a small country and although we’re big in Scotland in terms of cash even the Lib Dems can outspend us and they proved it at the last election by flooding the country with propaganda well over any spending limits and got away with it, The SNP would never get away with that even if we had the money to do it because the media would be all over us like ticks on a sheep

    196. louis.b.argyll says:

      Nobody votes for protest groups.

      You can’t vote for CND, FOE, AMNESTY etc.

      To reach out to all demographics, to be trusted and viewed as above the politics of petty point-scoring (see baby boxes) the parliamentary group must hold its nerve.

      If something can’t be said in parliament, it can’t be said in public, without opening a new front to be attacked.

    197. Breastplate says:

      Smallaxe, I understand your point, however if we want to bolster our side of the debate, we should also understand our weaknesses. The argument for Independence is so strong anyway, we should not be afraid to talk about any aspect of it.
      We should know the ins and outs of every aspect, especially the ones that Unionists dwell on.

    198. louis.b.argyll says:

      Back to lurking duty.

      Watch those crystal ball inconsistencies. Watch those crystal ball strategies.

    199. ronnie anderson says:

      Robert Peffers Daisy Walker is voicing Constructive criticism & asking that the SNP are more PROACTIVE not REACTIVE . Daisy as a SNP member is entitled to her views & Cod Knows i’ve tried to get the movers & shakers within the SNP to be more open to IDEAS from the wider Yes Movement .

      I don’t often agree with Tommy Sheridan but as to his speech on Sat at the Green I agree with him on this point the YES MOVEMENT are the FOOT SOLDIERS & the SNP the POLITICAL WING of the INDEPENDENCE MOVEMENT . NOWS the time to get the build up & RECOGNITION OF ALL INDEPENDENCE GROUPS .

      Daisy Thanks for making the trip down from Perth on Sat just to give the Wings Stall the reels of Banner Tape , it went down well . If your on F/B contact me ronnie anderson ( wee Saltire Shed avitar ) I’ll export your idea to Yes Groups .

    200. Bradford Millar says:

      their in lies the problem Scotland has no media it’s all controlled from London

    201. Smallaxe says:


      Thank you, for your response and your understanding, my friend. I am in complete agreement with many like yourself, my main concern is that debate can turn quickly to arguments and divisiveness between Wingers and that is sad to watch. I wish you and all others peace in our endeavours.

    202. Capella says:

      There’s an excellent documentary called “The Rise and Fall of the Russian Oligarchs”. Link from a comment on CMs blog – apologies I forget who posted it.

      Made in 2005 when some of them were still alive, it explains how they stole billions of public assets after the collapse of the Soviet Union. It explains how Yeltsin was helped to power by a rigged system, how the oliarchs had to gain control of th MSM to get power.

      Then along comes Putin and puts an end to their games. It explains why they hate Putin and want rid of him.

      In two 45 min parts. Part 2 deals with the capture of TV necessary for political power. Just like in the UK.

      Some occasional blanks in the video but these don’t disrupt the story too much.

    203. Daisy Walker says:

      Dr Jim says

      If folk want to tell the SNP how and on what to spend my and 120.000 others money on they can get themselves a say on that when they join and pay their money in.


      If you don’t buy a share in the ice cream company you don’t get to decide what flavour it sells and it’s the companys responsibility to its shareholders to optimise its finances in the best way it sees fit

      The SNP can’t count on never ending supplies of big money like the Unionist parties, Scotland is a small country and although we’re big in Scotland in terms of cash even the Lib Dems can outspend us and they proved it at the last election by flooding the country with propaganda well over any spending limits and got away with it, The SNP would never get away with that even if we had the money to do it because the media would be all over us like ticks on a sheep.




      Louis b argyll says

      To reach out to all demographics, to be trusted and viewed as above the politics of petty point-scoring (see baby boxes) the parliamentary group must hold its nerve.




      Re choosing our words carefully and not providing the Unionists with ammunition. Right just now they will be laughing their bits off. Think they haven’t figured out all the areas we’re missing, all the chances we’re missing. Think again.

    204. Breastplate says:

      Agreed Smallaxe,
      There have been times when debate has been reduced to squabbling and it is never a good look.

    205. Dr Jim says:

      Well that all sounds lovely and thick as bad mince and you’ll be doing it without me, reasonable though I’ve tried to be with some of this nonsense it doesn’t seem to get traction with the argument makers and shouters

      After this today and yesterday some folk suggesting certain groups be excluded from joining marches if they wanted to Wings commentators are at times becoming as bad as the other side so I guess I’ll just fire myself from being included in this fun fest of everyone’s wrong but me argument

    206. Cubby says:

      Amazed to read discussions above that people think there may be independence supporters working at Propaganda Quay. I always thought that they would filter them out. Never seen or heard any evidence that disproves that Propaganda Quay is 100% full of British Nationalists.

      If you support independence and work for the worst state propaganda organisation in the world then get a grip and get out of there. It is a criminal organisation. The organisation that turned a blind eye to a gang of phaedophiles in its midst. The license fee is a protection racket.

      Guilt by association if you work there. Get yourself oot now.

    207. Shug says:

      Here is the bbc news today
      Your police are shite
      Your nurses are shite
      Your teachers are shite
      Your baby boxes are shite
      Your country is shite
      And your shite too

      Now for the weather oh that’s shite toda

    208. Smallaxe says:

      Dr Jim,

      Please don’t go too far away, my friend, your comments are much appreciated by myself and many others and your sense of humour can be a welcome relief in stressful times.

      I’ll keep you a seat.

    209. louis.b.argyll says:

      I’m not trying to ‘argue’ with anyone and I’ve made clear that I respect the positions of others, without reciprocation.

      Re Tommy Sheridan, look what happened to his party when they couldn’t shake the protest group tag.
      I find his term ‘footsoldiers’ sickening and counter productive.

    210. Smallaxe says:


      You forgot the cricket scores, the most important bit of the BBC news.

    211. Lenny Hartley says:

      Daisy Walker 0956 agree 100% very well put, thank you for an excellant post which had to be said and you said it very well!

    212. louis.b.argyll says:

      Anyway, (this isn’t am argument btw, just a point) (that OK with everyone else?)

      Those SNP office windows are for ALL THEIR CONSTITUENTS, aren’t they.

      My caps…

    213. Smallaxe says:

      louis.b.argyll says:

      “I find his term ‘footsoldiers’ sickening and counter productive.”

      Agreed, Louis, I am not and have never been a soldier, I am a father and grandfather whose only wish is to have my children and grandchildren live in a fair, free and independent Scotland. Peace and love to you and to those to whom you give your love.

    214. louis.b.argyll says:

      Daisy, I might be coming back round to your thinking, being that these frustrations circulate somewhat.

      Part of the SNP’s intransigence may be that they want to be seen as professional nationally, more down to earth locally. Unfortunately the media has no such distinction, so SNP avoid risk..?

    215. Clootie says:

      Dr. Jim

      Well said!

      I am also sick of non members telling the SNP how to spend our money and what policies they should follow.

      If you believe in an Independent Scotland then get behind the one party who can deliver it?

    216. louis.b.argyll says:

      Thanks Smallaxe, father of 4 myself. Half my extended family are very active SNP members, since the very beginning.

      Until recently, I was of the get intae them. Didn’t like SNP becoming respectable per se, different now.

      Peace back at ya!

    217. Jim Davidson says:

      Case in point, F.M could have should have shot Tompkins down re his daft pizza/cocaine question. There’s enough info out there regards the basis of the survey to have corrected the false narrative

    218. Smallaxe says:


      Thank you, my friend.
      🙂 🙂 🙂

    219. Fred says:

      Tommy Sheridan’s speeches to three different audiences simultaneously in Victoria’s was a highlight of my Referendum, the biggest of the three waited in the pishin rain to hear him.

      His business is his business but Glasgow voting YES was in no small measure down to SH & his foot-soldiers campaigning.

    220. Daisy Walker says:

      Dr Jim,

      I value your contributions and your presence, we disagree on the route up the hill, but not the need to get there.

      An invite, go through the ideas I listed, one by one, and list the reasons for each why its not suitable, not do-able, not appropriate, not acceptable, not workable, not desirable.

      I’d respectfully suggest that ‘thick as bad mince’ doesn’t quite work as an explanation.

      If you list the above, I will go over it, read it with interest, and acknowledge where you have valid points and provide reasoned argument for the why it would work. I will do so politely, you have my word.

      We have a hill to climb, and we’re going to need everything to bare in order to get there.

      If just one of the ideas I put forward can be used, it must be done. No excuses.

      And the same for other people’s ideas, they know their own areas best, they’re the experts. But we can and we must share best practice.

      In kindness and in commitment.


    221. Daisy Walker says:

      @ Louis B Argyll,

      Those SNP office windows are for ALL THEIR CONSTITUENTS, aren’t they.

      Yes they are, and I am firmly of the belief that All Their Constituents are entitled to the correct information, particularly when it comes to something as intrinsically sensible, practical, and safety conscious as Baby Boxes.

      For folks information, I am a member of the SNP, I donate substantially, and all of the above ideas I listed were put to the Constituency on numerous occasions and Rubbered.

      I do not, and have not, ‘travelled the country looking to see what others do, so that I can throw pelters at my ain branch’ – what I have done is visit, a YES Hub to network and share best practice.

      There will come a time when as per ‘normal’ members can put party before country. Now is not that time.

      There will come a time when if you don’t like the messenger you can ignore them and pick one of your choosing. That’s not now.

      Right just now if you have a good idea – shout it from the roof tops, don’t be polite, don’t be shy, don’t be put off or put down – there is no time for that.

      Right just now if you see a good idea – Steal it, be bold, be brazen and Steal it.

      Right just now if an Idea won’t work, tell folk why, then ask them How, How can it be made to work. What would work better. Make it work.

      The starting gun went a while ago, while the SNP were singing us a lullaby. Time we woke up, time we woke the party up too.

      Yes we can and Now we Must

    222. To me Mr., Peffers is content to watch the SNP ship sail towards the rocks if you offer an opinion on how they should change course he jumps in right away to contradict you I mean when does taking it on the chin end and stupidity begin ???

    223. Tinto Chiel says:

      Dr Jim: you’re going nowhere so get the boots off. You and Jack Collatin are the Godfathers of Rant, and that’s a compliment.

      Your stuff is both funny and very sharp and this place would be the worse without you.

    224. Bill McLean says:

      Sorry Folks! Comms check – 2 earlier post not seen.

    225. Robert Louis says:

      Daisy at 123pm

      quote “The starting gun went a while ago, while the SNP were singing us a lullaby. Time we woke up, time we woke the party up too.

      Yes we can and Now we Must”

      Completely agree with this and your other well thought out comments.

      The unionists have been campaigning since Sept. 15th 2014. Whether a referendum is called right now or not, the narrative has to start NOW, the groundwork has to start NOW. People are chomping at the bit, but we need the starting gun to fire, and it has to come from the top. A lot of campaigning could be done over summer, when weather is better, and people are out and about more.

    226. schrodingers cat says:

      all of the merchandise you mention is available from ayemail
      eg, 10,000 flags(we sell them at£5 each to raise funds)
      we also buy blue tshirts for £2.50 each iron on yesnef logos and sell for £5 each.
      we also source other less quanity items, car bonnet and windows flags (about 40 is enough for our group)

      but the box of merchandise was specifically designed for us for the things we cant produce, eg yes vinyl roundel car stickers etc, badges and the card size leaflets

      i also have yes a3 and a4 pdfs for us to print out window posters to deliver.

      we also have a yesnef constitution doc, and membership forms which we have emailed to many yes groups to copy and adapt for their own group

      so i think with regards to this type of merchandise we are covered.

      a big expense is vinyl banners for vi visual areas, fields next to motor ways etc there was talk on here of identifying a number of sites (100?) and then crowdfunding 100 posters (£3000?) which we could then circulate around the locations

      i think this would fit your criteria of a high visual impact. we did crowd fund a disreporting scotland bill board trailer, which was great, but time limited.

      as for leafleting, we are considering, in my area, to crowd fund the delivery by the postman to liberate us to spend all our time canvasing.

      the biggest issue that we havent yet sorted is the streetmaps and distribution lists and sorting out the corresponding electoral register. there is no yesscotland or yesmo database who will do this for us,

      also, while there are many yes groups there is no over all picture of the areas they cover which means many areas have no coverage at all,
      eg, using the constituencies from holyrood elections
      there is a yesbrechin,yesmontrose,yesstonehaven and a yesforfar group, what about laurencekirk and

      this isnt an attempt to enforce anything onto yesgroups but only to find out which areas that are not covered. as a grassroots organisation, without a yesscotland, to run a successful campaign, we need to know this info?

      fyi, a council ward size is the best size for a yes group, 8-14k voters, but not all council wards in a holyrood constituency are neccesarily in the same council

    227. yesindyref2 says:

      @Robert Peffers: “It’s Daisy Walker’s turn to make the story into SNP BAAAAAD! today.

      Robert, the rest of your posting is fine and I happen to agree about the “do nothing” being the best approach on this one about the Baby Box and others – IF you stopped criticising everybody who says anything abut the SNP you disagree with just because they dare to criticise the SNP.

      Everyone is entitled to an opinion – AS ARE YOU. And Daisy Walker.

    228. Thepnr says:

      @schrodingers cat

      In addition to the YesForfar, YesBrechin and YesMontrose groups you mentioned that are all in Angus there is also YesCarnoustie, YesArbroath, YesKirriemuir and Yes Monifieth that I know of.

      That’s a lot of Yes groups in one constituency and they are all going strong. YesArbroath and YesBrechin recently opened new hubs. YesCarnoustie organises monthly small flyover demos have reular new members Welcome evenings and currently even throw in weekly Gaelic lessons 🙂

      The thing is though there is also an active YesAngus group that covers the entire area, I’d like to see that setup in every constituency with regular meetings between the local groups and the constituency groups.

      There’s no doubt that we can do better next time, great effort though was made first time around. These are grassroots and it’s really all down to us.

      @Daisy Walker there’s no doubt many of your ideas have merit and I would love to see some of them taken up. No doubt there may well be issues when applied to registered political parties such as restrictions on advertising.

      However it’s well worth having the discussion as to what we can and can’t do either as individuals, small local Yes groups or as political parties not just the SNP but all parties that support Independence of which there are at least three.

      The more we do now the better our chances, any suggested improvements welcome as far as I’m concerned.

    229. Clootie says:

      Westminster only fears unity.
      They look to divide and rule or sell examples of division.
      The unity of the recent March, SNP seats at Holyrood or Westminstet.

      I’m sick of saying this but we need to be “under one banner”. If we keep splitting into versions of the Judean people’s front then you are doing the unionist’s job for them. Vote for whoever you want post independence. Pick the party that fits your aspirations…but no party can get the votes compared to the SNP and every attack is helping Westminster.

      Do I think the SNP is perfect……NO
      Do I think they are the perfect banner to fight for Independence……YES

    230. Referendum1707 says:

      Robert Peffers re your completely unnecessary attack on Daisy Walker for having the temerity to suggest that maybe the SNP don’t walk on water after all. SNP politicians are by miles the best in the DisUK, far far superior to the standard uk unionist troughers who inhabit the other parties but they’re not doing enough to boost support for independence. Showing competence in government unfortunately isn’t enough to do that.

      There’s a whole raft of things they could be doing to get the facts out to where they’re needed but don’t seem to be interested.

      Saying that there’s nothing they can do because the media’s against them doesn’t cut it I’m afraid.

      Bypassing the msm needn’t be rocket science or even difficult. All it takes is commitment and some initiative. Throughout history various disadvantaged movements have done this successfully and either overthrown or otherwise got rid of undesirable regimes that were oppressing them. The SNP need to get some of their radical mojo back. That doesn’t mean scaring off small c conservatives or the centre right, it simply means taking steps to ensure that as many people as possible have the FACTS made available to them, by whatever means, doorstep canvassing, leafleting campaigns, mass mail drops giving info about for example the McCrone Report, what powers the SG does and doesn’t have and so on. And if the msm gets wind of it and doesn’t like it – who cares?

      The SNP could do some of this themselves and harness the power of the broader Yes movement to do the rest but you sometimes get the impression that the SNP are actually embarrassed by the Yes movement. Their refusal to be associated with WoS a few years ago comes to mind.

      Another thing that grinds my gears – people saying “and we haven’t even started campaigning yet”

      Well wtf haven’t we? Do we imagine that we’ve got years to just hang about thinking about it? Rant off/

    231. yesindyref2 says:

      Ah! I see most people have been discussing that. Well, everyone’s made good points and I kind of agree with everyone really.

      How can that be?

    232. ronnie anderson says:

      Ian Brotherhood Ah don’t think your ah Tractor mair ah Combine Harvester yer good at discarding the chaff .

      An whit happened tae U oan Sat no often U bypass the Wings Stall

    233. ronnie anderson says:

      Is it beyond the ken of our SNP MPS to to introduce a bill in Holyrood to rid ourselves of both the Westminster imposed voting systems STV & D hondt & use 1st past the post & lets see if the Tories/Labour/libdems oppose it . I think it should have been done in the 1st inst when the SNP had the largest majority .

    234. louis.b.argyll says:

      Just to correct myself, if I may indulge..
      Said I didn’t like the/Tommy’s ‘foot-soldiers’ tag.

      Will stand by that, as it’s too ‘last millenium’ to be progressive, we should be marching towards a non-confrontational-future, brothers and sisters.
      But..I love Tommy Sheridan and will hopefully march with the left, one day.

    235. Robert Peffers says:

      @Nana says: 10 May, 2018 at 9:26 am:

      “However I do think now is the time we should be talking with people and passing on the good things our SNP government are doing, strike up conversations with anyone you may be standing next to in a queue, a hospital or doctors waiting room, anywhere at all. I do this all the time ?”

      You got that right, Nana, I’ve never stopped campaigning for the best part of 70 years. I’d just past my 11 plus when I started in earnest and I passed my 11 plus when I was only just barely 11.

      Matter of fact I was one of young Scots chosen to be taking the exam at 11 years old as a trial to see it 11 was an appropriate age for the transition to secondary education. Turned out it was.

    236. Robert Peffers says:

      @Bill McLean says: 10 May, 2018 at 9:31 am:

      “I expect better of women for some reason but should remember Thatcher and this current disaster! Sorry ladies i’m on your side totally but so sickened by Garavelli and Brooks!”

      So you don’t go along with this then Bill:-

    237. Robert Peffers says:

      Ach! Not again!

      I see the last Microsoft update seems to have turned the predictive text thingy back on for those of us who had gone to the bother of turning it off.

      Upthread I had typed commenters and it changed it to commuters. Strange people these USAsians – and they actually think they speak the same English language we do.

      What they make of our lowland Scots is something else again.

    238. Nana says:

      Aye Mr Peffers, we ought to be in campaign mode all the time, after all the unionists have never stopped.

      You only stop campaigning once you get reach the goal.

      Hope you are doing ok Robert.

    239. Robert Peffers says:

      @Jim Davidson says: 10 May, 2018 at 10:21 am:

      “Your attack on Daisy is well out of order.”

      How so?

      “She was merely venting her frustration that SNP don’t fight back in these situations. “

      I stated exactly what Daisy Walker is doing, Jim. Whether intentionally or not is neither here nor there.

      What is being done here on Wings is exactly what I described.

      Rev Stu wrote his article that has as title, “Lower than the lowest low”. What Rev Stu did was criticise, quite vehemently, the efforts in, what claims to be a newspaper, of a couple of bitter wee unionist toadies and their claims that the SG/SNP are putting Scots babies at risk by their scheme to issue baby boxes to any pregnant mother in Scotland who cares to claim a Baby Box.

      What Daisy Walker did was to turn that opinion right round and, at some considerable lengths, castigate Nicola Sturgeon, the SG and the SNP as being the ones at fault. i.e. A lengthy diatribe against the people who brought the Baby Box scheme to Scotland.

      Now I may be wrong in my view that the YES movement is a spontaneous popular front that stands for Scottish independence and the end of the United Kingdom but also that the movement is like a big family. Big families tend to fight among themselves, like futrets in a poke, but if any outsider messes with any one of them they mess with the whole big family.

      Now there is a further attribute of large families – they do not wash their dirty linen in public. Wings is an open forum in the public domain and it is most certainly read by many arch unionists and we all know that to be so.

      I have not been averse t,o not just criticising SG/SNP mistakes n the past but I did so at the proper place to do so – at branch or constituency meetings where my critique would not only be recorded in the minutes but, going by party rules, had to be dealt with.

      I’m also well aware that Daisy Walker may well not be an SNP member but I’m also well aware certain factions, even within the Indy or YES movement itself, have often been outspoken against the SNP while still maintaining they support independence.

      But I put it to you that openly doing so in the public domain is counter productive to not only the SNP but the cause of independence as a whole. Finally, the opinions held by Daisy Walker may indeed be quite wrong and here’s the thing – all evidence that there is – indicates support for independence is still growing in Scotland. The march in Glasgow confirms that as fact. That march was much larger than any during the whole Indy One campaign and there isn’t an official campaign really started yet.

      This seems to prove that the SG/SNP policy of inaction against the Westminster propaganda is having the desired effects of driving former soft no supporters to the yes side of the divide. More and more of the people of Scotland now see that propaganda as propaganda but they would probably previously also held the all too familiar claims we so often hear on doorsteps while canvasing, “Aw yone politicians ir the same. Jist oot fir thirsels.”

      Now it seems many are not so sure the above is true. The good governance, and such as Baby Boxes among that good governance, is doing more to turn Nos to Yes than if the SG/SNP lowered themselves to the yoon standards and had joined the Britnats in slinging loads of shit back at the Establishment like angry demented chimps.

      We are not angry chimps – we are much netter than that.

    240. yesindyref2 says:

      @Robert Peffers
      From your later posting: “by people who claim to be indy supporters

      and from the last posting: “have often been outspoken against the SNP while still maintaining they support independence” – i.e implying they don’t.

      You say that to anyone who criticises the SNP.

      But I put it to you that openly doing so in the public domain is counter productive to not only the SNP but the cause of independence as a whole.

      Nonsense. Independence support includes SNP members and voters, Green, SSP, Labour, LibDem and even (4%) Conservatives. Plus people who vted in the Indy Ref but not in the elections. Do you seriously expect every one of these to meekly think the SNP are perfect, and their piss is champagne?

      So how do you explain that even in the SNP, the three SNP depute candidates have different views on the date of Indy Ref 2, and Pete Wishart is way different? Which one of them should keep their mouth shut, and not express their views in the “public domain”?

      Are only the 100,000 members of the SNP allowed to have an opinion on – the SNP? And only express them in dead secret which makes it kind of awkward to debate them at conferences wqhich are televised? Well, is that your view of an open inclusive democracy? It certainly ani’t mine.

    241. Daisy Walker says:

      Dear Mr Peffers

      I am an SNP Member.

      I contribute substantially.

      I have raised the ideas previously listed at Constituency meets and been Rubbered!

      Personally that doesn’t bother me too much, if they’d stolen (which they couldn’t do cause they were a gift) the ideas I’d have been delighted.

      But when that avenue is exhausted then what?

      At no point ever have I castigated Nicola Sturgeon – you throw that into the mix…

      At no point do I castigate the Baby Box… what I castigate is the lack of valid response from the SNP. A poor, poor show that is now run its course. They damn well start using every tool in the box, or they damn well explain – IN FULL DETAIL – the reasons for why not.

      When the private domain is treated with such well worn contempt, when the stakes are so high – all voices will be heard.

      In peace and in commitment DW

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