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Wings Over Scotland


Lies and replies

Posted on June 18, 2014 by

We suppose, then, that we’d better deal with the UK government’s bizarre propaganda booklet that’s about to slither through every letterbox in Scotland at taxpayers’ expense whether they like it or not. We’ve been having some fun with the cover image in the last couple of days, but astonishingly enough this is the real version:

pishflet1

To be honest, readers, we’re still kind of rubbing our eyes in disbelief at that one. But the McTrapp Family above (who are these implausibly happy children? Where, who or what are they running from? Are they trespassing? Where are their parents?) aren’t even nearly the weirdest thing about the pamphlet.

pishflet2

“More businesses and jobs.

Many thousands of Scottish jobs are connected to trade with the rest of the United Kingdom. For example, 200,000 Scottish jobs are supported by banking, insurance and finance, and the industry itself estimates that nine out of ten customers live in the rest of the UK.”

So? Those people are still going to want their insurance and their bank accounts, so why would independence affect those jobs in any way?

“All the advantages of the pound

As part of the United Kingdom, Scotland has one of the oldest, strongest and most stable currencies in the world, backed up by 31 million taxpayers and the strength of the Bank of England. It would not be possible to recreate today’s currency arrangements across two separate states. Staying within the UK is the only way to keep the pound we have now.”

Not possible? Isn’t that in fact the exact opposite of what Mark Carney, the Governor of the Bank of England actually said recently about a currency union? Didn’t he say that whatever was decided between the two nations, the Bank would make it work?

Let’s just check, shall we?

“Any arrangement to retain sterling in an independent Scotland would need to be negotiated between the Westminster and Scottish Parliaments. The Bank of England would implement whatever monetary arrangements were put in place.”

Yeah, that’s what we thought he said.

pishflet3

“A bigger economy that protects us all.

The United Kingdom economy is the sixth largest in the world. Our collective size, strength and diversity allow us to grow and succeed together, and help to protect jobs in difficult times. In 2008, for example, we were able to provide Scottish banks with support worth more than twice Scotland’s national income.”

None of those words are actually related to each other. Large economies are no more inherently secure than small ones, and most of the world’s most successful and agile economies are small nations like Norway, Denmark and Switzerland.

And “protect jobs” in the same breath as banks? Hmm.

“By the end of this year, Britain’s four biggest banks will have axed 189,000 jobs around the world in the five years since the financial crisis broke. Royal Bank of Scotland Holdings has axed 78,000 jobs since its £45bn taxpayer bailout in 2008.”

Well, lucky we had the big strong UK protecting us, eh?

“Cheaper bills.

The United Kingdom’s financial standing helps keep interest rates low. That means cheaper loans and mortgages for you and your family. And because the costs of investing in Scotland’s energy networks and renewables are shared across the whole of Great Britain, staying in the UK would keep future energy bills for Scottish households up to £189* a year lower.

*Source: Scotland analysis: Energy, HM Government, May 2014″

A cunning little piece of sleight of hand, this. “Here’s a dubious claim, but it’s okay because we’ve linked you to the source! Which is, erm, us.” That one gets a few airings throughout the course of the document, so watch out for them.

“Safe savings and pensions.

With Scotland as part of the United Kingdom, your savings in any UK bank or building society are protected by a guarantee of up to £85,000. And State Pensions are more secure because costs are shared by 31 million taxpayers across the UK.”

The £85,000 savings protection is a function of the EU, not the UK. It would be completely unaffected by independence, because it’s compulsory in all EU member states. Of course, if Scotland stays in the UK, it risks finding itself outside the EU.

The pensions line is a flat-out lie. The UK taxpayers who pay for pensions aren’t just doing it out of charity – they want their own pensions too. And as people in the rest of the UK live longer than people in Scotland, sharing the costs means that Scots get less out, in relative terms, than they put in.

pishflet4

“Shared public institutions.

Scotland benefits from over 200 United Kingdom institutions and services, including: the BBC, the National Lottery, Her Majesty’s Passport Office, Research Councils UK and the DVLA. An independent Scotland would need to create new public institutions, which would be complex and expensive.”

Heavens above, this one? Still?

“Lower taxes, higher public spending.

As part of the United Kingdom, Scotland’s finances are much stronger with lower taxes and higher public spending. The UK Government estimates that the long-term financial benefit of staying in the UK is worth £1,400* every year to each person living in Scotland.

*Source: Scotland analysis: Fiscal policy and sustainability, HM Government, May 2014″

Oh look, it’s that “We say this, and as proof here’s us saying it” scam again. But wait a minute – “lower taxes”? Who does Scotland have lower taxes than, exactly?

They can’t mean anywhere else in the UK, because taxes are the same across the UK. They can’t be talking about higher-tax states like Norway, because we definitely don’t have higher public spending than them.

And they can’t mean a future independent Scotland, because even the Financial Times admits it would be in a stronger economic position than the UK. So who?

“More support for public services.

As part of the United Kingdom, Scotland benefits from public spending that is around 10% higher than the UK average. This helps fund vital public services like health, education and transport. By staying in the United Kingdom, Scotland’s public services are more affordable.”

You do have to admire their persistence in sticking with a claim that’s been debunked a thousand times. Scotland DOES get higher public spending per head (by around £1200) than the UK average, but as noted by the FT it also contributes far more per head in tax revenues (by around £1700), and has done for as far as records go back.

Scotland subsidises the UK, not the other way round – by the UK government’s own admission, and by the calculations of prominent Unionist economists. Independence will make Scottish public services more affordable, not less. The figures aren’t in any dispute whatsoever. The UK government’s claim is a bare-faced lie.

pishflet5

“An influential voice in important places.

The United Kingdom is a leading member of the UN and the only country in the world that is also a member of NATO, the EU, the Commonwealth, the G7, the G8 and the G20. As one of the EU’s ‘big four’ nations, the UK is more able to protect Scottish interests in areas like agriculture and fisheries.”

Ah, “influence”, also known as the old “punching above our weight on the world stage” argument, again. Can you remind us how that one tends to pan out, someone?

“Protecting our people and promoting our interests.

For centuries Scottish people have been at the heart of the United Kingdom’s armed forces, which keep us safe at home and abroad. You can rely on help from over 200 embassies and consulates around the world if you get into difficulty. Scottish businesses are supported around the world by the UK. This includes successfully promoting Scottish exports such as whisky.”

The UK promotes Scottish exports if Scotland pays for it. And just as with savings guarantees with banks, diplomatic assistance abroad is a function of EU membership, not the UK. Any embassy or consulate of an EU member state is obliged under EU law to help a citizen of any other member state to exactly the same degree it would help one of its own citizens.

“Help for the world’s poorest.

The United Kingdom is the second largest aid donor in the world. Our collective influence and reach means that we are helping to end extreme poverty, saving lives during humanitarian crises and making vital contributions to international peacekeeping missions. In response to Typhoon Haiyan in the Philippines, the UK helped one million people by providing food, water, shelter and lifesaving medicine.”

The Scottish Government is already committed to maintaining and increasing aid.

pishflet6

“We all benefit from being together.

Collectively, the United Kingdom’s four nations contain more than 60 million people and nearly 5 million businesses. This larger community provides more opportunities to succeed and greater financial security.”

No it doesn’t, because it’s part of the EU, which contains more than 748 million people in 28 nations. An independent Scotland will be part of that “larger community”, just as it is now, so whether it stays in the UK or not is completely irrelevant. (Unless, as we’ve noted already, the UK leaves the EU.)

“A successful family of nations.

For over 300 years, Scotland has flourished as part of the United Kingdom. Together with England, Wales and Northern Ireland, Scotland has created one of the world’s most successful families of nations.”

(1) We’re interested in the future, not the past.

(2) Define “successful”. The UK is one of the developed world’s most unequal nations and over £1.2 trillion in debt, and Scotland has some of its lowest life expectancies.

(3) Who are the other “families of nations” in this league table, anyway?

“A strong Scottish Parliament.

Scotland already has its own Parliament that makes decisions about hospitals, schools, policing and other important matters. From next year, the Scottish Parliament will be getting even more powers to set tax rates and decide if and when to borrow money.”

So we get to take on more debt, but we can’t use our own abundant resources to pay it off, and have to instead keep sending all our wealth to Westminster and then taxing our people more to fill the gap? Great.

(Except that we can’t actually tax anyone more, because you can’t have different tax levels in a unitary state, so all we’ll be able to do to repay that borrowing – and the costs of the useless new tax bureaucracy – is cut public services.)

“The referendum on 18th September means making a big decision that affects everything: how you live and work, what money you use, the tax you pay, the laws you abide by and the passport you carry.

The UK Government believes that by staying united we have much more to share and much more to gain.”

There’s little doubt that those things are both true. But Wings Over Scotland advises readers to carefully note the usage of “you” and “we” in the two sentences.

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  1. 18 06 14 15:19

    Lies and replies | Scottish Independence News

259 to “Lies and replies”

  1. Salt Ire says:

    Now I’m late for getting my daughter…mutter

    Excellent debunking.

  2. Gray says:

    Scotland benefits from over 200 United Kingdom institutions and services, including: the BBC, the National Lottery, Her Majesty’s Passport Office, Research Councils UK and the DVLA.

    An independent Scotland would need to create new public institutions, which would be complex, expensive and create thousands of new jobs.

  3. heedtracker says:

    Punching above your weight on the world stage silly little Scotland meant catastrophic loss of life in Iraq and the horrific legacy just keeps going. BetterTogether Crash Gordon was Tony Bliar’s number 2 when they went war with Iraq but how come no one in our wretched “Scottish” media ever asks Gordon about Iraq, the why, how etc

  4. Morag says:

    And also, Gray, the people who fill these thousands of new jobs will be spending their salaries in Scotland, in Scottish shops and with Scottish businesses.

    What’s not to like?

  5. Dennis Webster says:

    Will the costs of this booklet be included in the No Campaign expenses (£150,000)If not, surely this is unfair and the Electoral Commission should make a statement regarding the legality of this. Would The Scottish Government be entitled to do the same?

  6. Macart says:

    To be filed under bin as soon as it hits the carpet.

  7. cadgers says:

    I bet it’s even printed on shiney paper, so ye canny put it to good use.

  8. Illy says:

    Geez, those pictures – they haven’t even done a good job piecing some of them together from their parts. Look at the guy pulling stuff out his car: His head’s going through the boot door!

  9. Neil Craig says:

    If you don’t like Westminster quoting themselves on Scottish windmills needing a united energy market how about p295 of the SNP’s blockbuster, also paid for by the taxpayer? It confirms that “Scotland will continue to participate in the GB wide energy market”. Thus, after separation rUK customers will continue to subsidise Scottish windmills, so that we only have some of the world’s most expensive electricity rather than electricity twice as expensive as anywhere else.

    This is a direct and deliberate consequence of the Luddite attack on our country by ALL the approved parties, including the unanimous vote for the most expensive and destructive “climate change” Act in the world.

    How Eck is able to guarantee that no future rUK will elect a government that decides not to keep subsidising Scottish windmills has never been adequately, or at all, explained.

    The legal reasons why banks would wish to be primarily located in the same country as the majority of their customers are also understood.

  10. Macandroid says:

    Stick on refutations of their lies with post-its and send to:

    Better Together
    FREEPOST RTAU-ZCRB-TELS
    5 Blythswood Square
    Glasgow
    G2 4AD

  11. Lanarkist says:

    Nice job, debunked before distribution, now to just print off and get out to anyone not online!

    Are the models Labour activists or more Oxford residents on Agency lists?

  12. Roland Smith says:

    When it appears I intend to write return to sender and pop it back into a post box.

  13. geo says:

    There’s little doubt that those things are both true. But Wings Over Scotland advises readers to carefully note the usage of “you” and “we” in the two sentences.

    Wings at its best.

  14. BuckieBraes says:

    Can’t wait to see this when it arrives; but, let me get something straight…

    So…a piece of tendentious propaganda has been produced by the London-based HM Government, the one headed up by David Cameron, who refuses to debate with Scotland’s First Minister on the grounds that it’s not his place to get involved.

    Maybe this is their idea of the much-vaunted ‘best of both worlds’ – say what you like, then refuse to defend it.

  15. Jack Murphy says:

    TODAY.NHS England,Black Hole of nearly £2 Billion next Financial Year.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-27894551
    Today the Royal College of Nursing is debating a £10 fee for visiting the GP !!
    We must protect our NHS in Scotland ‘cos of the savage cuts coming down the line from Westminster during the next UK parliament—Labour or Tory.

  16. TJenny says:

    Morag – and also paying their taxes to a Scottish Treasury what’s not to like? 🙂

  17. Tartan Tory says:

    Propaganda Guff Says:

    The referendum on 18th September means making a big decision that affects everything: how you live and work, what money you use, the tax you pay, the laws you abide by and the passport you carry.

    The UK Government believes that by staying united we have much more to share and [WE have] much more to gain.

    Highlighted to enforce Stu’s final sentence. Yes, the wording is extremely accurate and says all you need to know!

  18. Murray McCallum says:

    Isn’t that a typo in the government report – “A successful family of nations”.

    A dysfunctional family of nations surely? I mean, just watch and/or read the MSM for that last 30+ years to see the evidence.

  19. scottish_skier says:

    Hmm, wonder how many people in Scotland trust the UK government to act in Scotland’s interests, ergo will believe the contents of this document.

    Let’s see.

    (goes to survation polling site, checks 5 million Q’s survey, returns to wings).

    17%

    And they’ll be voting No anyway.

    What a gigantic waste of 720 k. So much for ‘fiscal conservatism’.

  20. manandboy says:

    {I can’t keep up.)

    Scotland – so wealthy
    Scots – so poor?
    Answer – Westminster Governments.

    Remember – DEVOLUTION REFERENDUM 1979
    As the committee stage was nearing its end, it scrutinised an amendment from Labour backbencher George Cunningham.

    It required the Secretary of State to lay before Parliament an order repealing the Act unless
    at least 40% of the eligible electorate voted “yes”.

    The amendment was strongly opposed by the Government, but they lost the vote by 166 votes to 151.

    In the referendum, on 1 March 1979, Scotland voted in favour of devolution by 52% to 48% – but only 32.9% of the electorate had joined the majority.

    The Tories are traditionally the object of Scottish ‘disaffection’.
    But when you look at the key decisions, as above, it is LABOUR who stabs Scotland in the back.

    And so in 2014, who have the longest knives? – Miliband, Darling,Alexander,Carmichael,D.Alexander,G.Brown,Lord Reid of Cardowan,Murphy,Anas Sarwar; and from Holyrood,Lamont & Baillie.

    So, while not discounting any of the BT membership,
    it is Labour who will put the knives in deepest into Scotlands’ hopes for a prosperous and fair future under Independence.

    But this time, we’re wearing the armour of experience gleaned from previous Labour treachery.

    Scotland – so wealthy
    Scots – why so poor?
    Answer – Westminster Governments

    Vote Yes.

  21. galamcennalath says:

    @Dennis Webster

    Yes, I’m more than a little concerned about whether or not this is included in official expenditure. I hope this is 10% of BT’s money gone. It certainly should be! If it isn’t then no matter what it says, it would be cheating.

  22. Robert Louis says:

    I do think the Scottish Government should follow Westminsters lead on this, and send the abbreviated (or even the full) version of the white paper to every single Scottish voter, regardless of cost. This is a dirty fight, and we only have one chance.

    If you recieve a copy of this Tory party propaganda, put it in an envelope, and send it without a stamp to:

    Conservative Campaign Headquarters
    4 Matthew Parker Street
    London
    SW1H 9HQ

    No matter what happens, it will become known that nobody wants this blatant propaganda and interference in Scotland’s referendum. I wouldn’t suggest sending it to a UK Government office, as the cost will then be borne partly by all of us. Sending it back to Tory party HQ in London ensures it is the English Tories who suffer, and bear any costs.

  23. Richy Duncan says:

    A leaflet telling us how lucky we are to be part of the UK and full to the brim with drivel. When will they learn.

    If there are folk out there who believe that voting no is a good thing, show them the cuts coming to us from westmidden and ask how we can keep our services safe? How can we protect our disabled and poor?

    I love watching them try to give answers when the simplest is right in front of them. Vote YES

    And we can guarantee that Scottish matters will be dealt with by Scots. They offer us nothing but expect all. Are we so naive ?

  24. Morag says:

    We’ve already been told it’s not included as part of the official expenditure. Suck it up, basically.

  25. Proud Cybernat says:

    Masterful, Rev. Just masterful.

  26. Democracy Reborn says:

    I’ve read more objective analysis in “Mein Kampf”

  27. galamcennalath says:

    @Robert Louis
    ” I think the Scottish Government should follow Westminsters lead on this, and send the abbreviated (or even the full) version of the white paper to every single Scottish voter, regardless of cost.”

    The problem with that would be the MSM would have a field day about Holyrood spending money. ‘Do was we say, not as we do.’

    If it’s not from BT’s budget, then they may have made a big mistake doing it within the controlled time frame.

  28. Robert Louis says:

    Here is the message in a nutshell,

    ‘Now listen up you jocks, you’ve had your bit of fun with talk of independence, but regardless, us Tories in London are going to tell you how to vote. Vote NO, or else.

    Regards,

    David Cameron
    London, England.’

  29. Viking Girl says:

    Your money certainly does go further. All the way, 420+ miles to Westminster.

  30. Adrian B says:

    There was talk on twitter of having an ‘event’ in Edinburgh to hand these back to the Scottish office:

    Scotland Office: Edinburgh
    1 Melville Crescent
    Edinburgh
    EH3 7HW

    I don’t think that anything has been organised to create this as an event – although there may well be some people locally that do.

  31. Robert Louis says:

    galamcennalath

    I agree the MSM would scream foul if the Scottish Government did such a thing, but at the end of the day, so what? Let them scream and shout. We only have one chance at this, and sticking to rules that London on a whim ignores, will win us nothing. I am not suggesting that we should be negative, merely that the media will scream and shout and lambast the SG anyway, so we have nothing to lose.

  32. eezy says:

    Robert Louis says:
    Conservative Campaign Headquarters
    4 Matthew Parker Street
    London
    SW1H 9HQ

    Nice one….I am going to do this….

    http://www.eezypeezylemonsqeezy.com

  33. Robert Louis says:

    Adrian B

    The Scotland office, quite bizarrely is funded from the Scotish block grant* – unless I am mistaken, so maybe not such a good idea, as the cost will be paid by the Scottish Government.

    *Maybe somebody can confirm this, as I can’t remember the detail.

    Best send it back to a party HQ, as then NO taxpayers pay the cost.

  34. JimnArlene says:

    So when you boil it down, to the bare bones. It’s just the,Tufty big book of squirrels.

  35. Robert Louis says:

    Jimnarlene

    Haha, the ‘Tufty big book of squirrels’. So very true.

  36. heraldnomore says:

    I think I prefer the BT Freepost return, with a great big No Thanks sticker. Can’t think of a better use for Ian Taylor’s money, Ms Rowling’s too for that matter.

  37. aldo_macb says:

    Off topic. A shout out for the fundraiser by the Gaelic group for Yes – Yes Alba. Trying to raise £2500 – 7 days to go.
    https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/maoineachadh-yes-alba-campaign-fund

  38. desimond says:

    In 2014 Foodbanks were able to bail out the UK Government

  39. Aikenheed says:

    There’s scope here for an Indy follow up version debunking the whole idea as you’ve pretty much already done Rev.
    Anyway i know my money goes further – it goes all the way to Westminster and a lot of it stays there.

  40. Helena Brown says:

    Thank you so much Robert Louis, address duly noted and will be returned as soon as received.

  41. desimond says:

    Aikenheed

    You’ll be expecting to see that mythical Wee Blue Book next!

    🙂

  42. TYRAN says:

    I notice they’ve finally stopped saying NHS is a shared institution due to its absence in the above piece. It’s the only thing they have got correct.

  43. Clootie says:

    It wears you down.

    The Tories/LibDems produce it in London using our tax. The BBC will sell it daily using YOUR license payment.

    However the shocking part is the Labour Party in Scotland backing Tory cuts and Tory propaganda.
    I cannot understand why people continue to support a party that is working with the Tories to keep sending the wealth of Scotland South. They know they lie about sharing, we are giving, not sharing.

    In actual fact we are not giving – it is being TAKEN.

  44. gordoz says:

    In short –

    By contributing to a remote, massive, ‘monster’ of a buraucracy we’ll be better off ?? – ‘Better to get out’ !!

    ‘Yeah lets stay within a system that informs us we’re subsidised on a daily basis even though Scottish Oil subsidises the UK balance of payments’ – ‘No Fanx’

  45. CameronB Brodie says:

    I think HMG Better Together are just beginning to appreciate just how badly their arrogance has blinded them from foresight, and that their timing is lowpin. 🙂

    Not an efficient or winning engine.

    work = pressure * piston area * stroke length

  46. Cameron says:

    I’m confused. The graphic for “By staying in the United Kingdom, Scotland’s Public Services are more affordable” shows a woman collecting a prescription. Last time I looked prescriptions were free in Scotland and Wales. I am even more confused by the graphic for ” By staying in the UK your money is safe and goes further” . The car registration is a Warwickshire one. Does that mean my money is going all the way there or is it only safe if they look after it for me. Geez I hope they have paid for these stock images rather than stepped on another Lego brick. That would hurt.

  47. Proud Cybernat says:

    Why nae pictures of oor foodbanks then?

  48. David Wardrope says:

    “There’s scope here for an Indy follow up version debunking the whole idea as you’ve pretty much already done Rev.”

    I was thinking of doing something like this. Not professional or snazzy, just cutting out the rebuttals from Rev and sticking them into the booklet at the relevant pages with a wee sticker on the front saying, “Now, with more facts!”

    I plan on leaving it sitting on the table in the ‘tearoom’ in my office at work.

  49. MochaChoca says:

    Gray and Morag,

    Indeed, comparing Full Time Equivalent public sector emoployment numbers and earnings, Scotland already pays for more than 22000 jobs situated elsewhere (taking just our on-shore tax share).

    The bigger picture though is that staff costs account for around 18% of public sector expenditure, so the massive budgets that these jobs spend on property, infrastrucutre, services and procurement will also shift to Scotland.

  50. Proud Cybernat says:

    And where are the pictures of our nice, shiny nukes?

    http://www.scottcreighton.co.uk/indyref/images/cant-afford-it.jpg

    Oh, right……

  51. gordoz says:

    Big Red ‘No More Scotland’ Bus in town today.

    Anas in his element talking to virtually no one.

    Question for any Labour readers: Why so few Scottish voices amongst the ‘canvassing crew’ (are they ashamed of us, or can’t they find any Scottish grass roots activists), all sounded either very, very posh or even English (not that theres anything wrong with that – just strange; hardly any ‘scottish brogue’ amongst the visitors).

    Also very surprising lack of uninon jacks considering the tone of ‘Down with Scotland / Only Labour can save you – don’t be fools !’

    No doubt this will helpfully be edited by BBC / STV to show massive crowds.

  52. heedtracker says:

    http://www.businessforscotland.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Big-Wealth-Gap.jpg

    The yewkay certainly makes England very very rich and it gets richer and richer the closer you get to merry olde London. Funny there’s no explanation in their garbage.

  53. David Wardrope says:

    O/T

    BBC reporting that Iraq have formally asked US for air “assistance”

  54. Adrian B says:

    @ Robert Louis,

    I think you are correct that the Scotland Office is funded from the Scottish block grant. As a small publicity stunt the costs of returning a relatively small number of these UK booklets would be worth it. They will end up getting recycled anyway.

    Each to their own however and using either Better Together or Conservative central office options are also valid. Given that many will be creative and show their returns on social media.

    The Scottish Government white paper and the draught constitution should show how serious the YES campaign is in making Scotland a more equal society for all who stay here.

  55. desimond says:

    gordoz

    and the compulsory “we were threatened by actual real life cybernats” claims will arise soon enough no doubt with a braxe Anas shown offering compassion in a caring UK for the misguided.

    Is that bus full of wage free volunteers cause im betting Anas isnt dropping any wages this week!

  56. handclapping says:

    Scotland benefits from over 200 United Kingdom institutions and services, including: the BBC,(an annual stealth tax) the National Lottery,(another stealth tax) Her Majesty’s Passport Office,(a shambles, see questions in Commons) Research Councils UK (a parasitical body that has turned “research” into an olympic “sport” like pig wrestling) and the DVLA.(One that works, its Welsh)

    An independent Scotland would need to create new public institutions, which would be complex (ie slightly above the level of comprehension of the SoS for Portsmouth) and expensive.(apart from the saving on London allowances, this would be money spent in Scotland giving a boost to the economy and the tax take at a point where the economy will need boosting to struggle clear of the quicksand of the promised, by all, return to austerity after the 2015 UKGE

  57. Nana Smith says:

    I hope the FM will be asking the liars [Lamont,Rennie & Ruthie] tomorrow to explain themselves.

    http://derekthomas2010.wordpress.com/2014/06/18/michael-forsyth-lets-the-cat-out-of-the-bag-tory-devolution-promises-are-lies/

  58. Chitterinlicht says:

    The choice comes down to this and it’s PANTS

    Do you put your own pants on in the morning every day for the rest of your life or do you let someone that you don’t know put whatever pants they want on you?

    Nice pair of fresh clean Calvin’s or Nigel Farage/Tony Blair/George Osbourne etc pulling a pair of skid marked war torn hand me downs elastic free budgie smugglers up your legs?

    Your choice and if you vote no you cannot complain!

    There is a great poster in there for someone with a creative bent

    Great repost and thanks

  59. galamcennalath says:

    @gordoz
    “….. can’t they find any Scottish grass roots activists….”

    I have wondered this myself. There has to be a very good reason why SLab appears to have completely failed to get its street activists out in support of BT.

    I’m guessing it is a combination of recognising BT is essentially a Tory organisation AND ordinary activists are split between Yes and No and therefore can’t be roused in any organised fashion.

    On the other hand, I have little doubt SCons are behind BT as a coherent entity. Certainly what BT presence on the ground I have seen has been true blue Tory. There just aren’t all that many of them!

  60. Jamie Arriere says:

    Whit? D’ye mean to say there’s not one mention of “best of both worlds” or “pooling & sharing of resources” for my NoThanks Bilge Bingo card?

    I am disappointed.

  61. Morag says:

    galamcennalath, one of our activists was hunted while we were leafleting the village on Sunday – by someone who took him for a Tory because the the blue Yes Scotland jacket he was wearing.

  62. Stylishkev says:

    That last sentence was he single best sentence ever written. “You” pay
    “We” Share
    Quite a statement that.

  63. Jamie Arriere says:

    “Lower Taxes, Higher public spending”

    Wait a minute. Isn’t that what they ALWAYS accuse the SNP of promising, yet they insist that’s what we currently get?

    The tail is lifting and here it comes!

  64. G H Graham says:

    I couldn’t get a tradesman to come from Dundee to Perth, a lousy 22 & 1/2 miles because he said, “It’s too far & I can’t justify the fuel cost.”

    The idea that thousands of small businesses in Scotland & in England will lose out after independence is unsound & wholly misleading.

  65. heedtracker says:

    Wonder if you wrote to them and asked why wealth distribution is so concentrated in England and the south of England, would anyone even answer?

    Or howsabout teamGB wealth inequality ranked bear the top in the most unequal states in OECD world dear HMgov?

    Dear Scottish sap,

    You’ve been had.

    Vote no.

  66. CameronB Brodie says:

    cadgers
    HMG Better Together are already putting barriers up, to the three Rs of ‘sustainability’ – Reduce, Re-use and Re-cycle. 🙂

    Actually, Westminster and the British state are irredeemably unsustainable.

    Btw, if we round down Scotland’s share of the UKplc to 8%, then should Whitehall not be spending roughly £60k on supporting the Yes campaign? That would buy a lot of “Aye Right” leaflets. 😉

  67. gordoz says:

    New Caption for the first photo:

    What ? The Chinese Premiere is here .. hooraahh !!

    Bags I get to trounce an nationalist oik in the square, with lashings of Ginger Beer, Yay !!!

  68. CameronB Brodie says:

    P.S. I have already pointed out that Better Together follow occult practices and withhold hidden knowledge. They are actually a cult. Very exclusive, so I’ve heard. 😉

  69. rab_the_doubter says:

    CameronB Brodie, A Cult? I think you’re getting your l’s and n’s mixed up there.

  70. Robert Peffers says:

    One word describes that United Kingdom Government booklet.

    CLAPTRAP.

  71. Stephen says:

    Ace – I’ll be getting the PDF and sending to any unsocial techie NAWS / dinnae kens and printing it out for the techie challenged – Nice work dude

  72. cynicalHighlander says:

    If anyone is sending that booklet back correct the misleading info and ask for an amended copy to be sent to all recipients.

  73. Davy says:

    Thanks for that debunking Stu, it was straight to the goulies of Westminster. And many thanks to all for suggestions on where to send such a leaflet, but I am keeping my one until I go camping in August with my friends from Yorkshire over on the west coast and the site allows fires.

    We are going to get drunk burning every lie.

    Note: It was very cool seeing quite a few houses with the YES stickers on the windows while canvassing in Keith, a lot of people willing to talk about the referendum and a lot of people noticing how bia’s the MSM & BBC are, which is a very good thing.

  74. Derek M says:

    is this the blue book with “the facts you need” written on it or is that a different one ? ,it plopped through my door this morning i havnt read it my brain wont let me ,plus i dont want to wreck ma hoose in a hulk style rage.
    Had the labour scum as well chapping the door and handing me some bumf which i took in front of them and put right into my bucket and told them to feck off ,poor we guys face was priceless wish i had a camera at the time 🙂

  75. heedtracker says:

    BBC in Scotland news with Electoral Commission rules from 19th Sept and no mention of all that lovely ukok vote no jam tomorrow funnily enough. What a con this is.

    “The agreement commits the two governments to working together to implement the added powers agreed in the Scotland Act 2012, specifying the enhanced tax powers.

    The statement does not mention the Scottish government’s proposed date of 24 March 2016 as Scotland’s independence day.

    It also makes no mention of the offer of more powers from the three main pro-Union parties.

    Instead, it states that any further changes to Holyrood powers would “be made by the UK Parliament, seeking the consent of the Scottish Parliamen”

  76. James Westland says:

    That picture with the kids must have been taken near Inverlochlairig. Thats Loch Doine and Loch Voil in the background. MacGregor country.

    Bet you Rob Roy would have said “Yes” or more likely, “Bu Choir”!

  77. Proud Cybernat says:

    @ James Westland

    Or maybe Rob would have said “A YES despite them.”

  78. squarego says:

    How about gluing a pile of leaflets together to make a wee step and donating it to a foodbank to help the little old lady volunteers reach the high up bashed tins of corned beef?

    Now that’s a photo-op!

  79. Findlay Farquaharson says:

    “Bet you Rob Roy would have said “Yes” or more likely, “Bu Choir”!”

    he must be very dismayed by the performance of his great great great nephew lindsay.

  80. Alabaman says:

    Rev, do you think that you could attend the Alhambra Theater in Dunfermline on 08 July , on my behalf to see an ordinance/discussion between one Gorden Brown & Rory Bremner, because if I went I know I would end up being thrown out!!.

  81. cynicalHighlander says:

    False photoshop picture as is the info inside from a false campaign vote Yes is the only answer.

  82. Chris Law says:

    Project Pish is never far from reach….

  83. squarego says:

    BBC News website – Scotland section. Agreement reached on post-ref arrangements. I have concerns about this paragraph…

    “It also emphasised that, in the event of a “Yes” vote, independence will not happen until negotiations between “people representing Scotland and people representing the rest of the United Kingdom” have been completed.”

    Does that mean it can be delayed indefinitely?

  84. TYRAN says:

    Limmy is on the left of the bottom photo.

  85. Scott Douglas says:

    Was thinking about setting light to this when it comes through the letterbox but of course shite doesn’t burn.

  86. Juteman says:

    They know they have ‘lost’ Scotland.
    Panic, panic panic.

  87. Onwards says:

    I really hope the Scottish Government has a similar concise publication planned, or a similar event getting their info directly to voters.

    I know we had the white paper, but that was outside the campaigning period and wasn’t sent to every home.

    This is a neat and glossy little propaganda sheet, masquerading as ‘research and analysis’ from HM Government.

    Street campaigning is great, but there may be an extra touch of credibility to advice coming directly from the Scottish Government, explaining why they need the extra powers.

    Perhaps activists could deliver it to keep costs down.

    The 100 days to go were in fact only 85 days when you include the start of postal voting.

  88. R whittington says:

    Are you going to do another Sensible Soccer Rev?

  89. heedtracker says:

    Rory Bremner thinks Gordon Brown should be the next First Minister of Scotchland, in the UK. So an audience with these two should be a challenge.

  90. Morag Graham Kerr says:

    I have to agree these kids were probably photographed against a green screen and the scenery added later. It would be a lot easier and cheaper. It’s the twee factor that does for it though.

  91. Embradon says:

    Expensive, patronising, disingenuous bollox. Straight to recycling.

  92. Morag Graham Kerr says:

    You do know they’re going to throw all this right back at us when the wee blue book comes out, don’t you?

  93. Muscleguy says:

    @Squarego
    No. Because Scotland post a Yes vote will always have the nuclear option in the negotiations. No not that one, the one where we say ‘Stuff you we’re off to make a UDI’. rUK will need a proper settlement too remember even if they are currently pretending otherwise.

    An orderly, agreed transition is the aim but Independence or bust if necessary. I would personally hope our negotiators throw a dummy over a decent issue early in the negotiations and draw that weapon. It needn’t be fired but rUK need to know we have it and are not afraid to use it should they try and string us along.

  94. john king says:

    Cadgers says
    “I bet it’s even printed on shiney paper, so ye canny put it to good use.”

    Never heard o Izal?
    thats shiny! 🙂

  95. SquareHaggis says:

    No information on the oil in this recent publication?

  96. Muscleguy says:

    I would also bet that either the UDI strategy has been worked out and is deep in secure storage or it’s on the To Do List for September 19. Always plan for the worst even if you are working hard for it not to happen. Similarly I expect John Swinney has two sets of economic forecasts. One for a Yes and one for a No, just in case.

  97. Caroline Corfield says:

    Thank you James Westland:

    http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/760967

  98. joe kane says:

    Probably best to sit down before reading what the Better Together mob have planned next for England and Wales, thereafter Scotland – all land and roads to be privatised and the public given no say in the development and planning process.

    You Will Not Believe What David Cameron is Selling Off Now
    Scriptonite Daily
    18 June 2014

  99. Free Scotland says:

    Am I being paranoid, or does this publication have a subliminal message in the pictures? Every single image features red, white and blue, just to remind you of the butcher’s apron.

  100. Marian says:

    Now that the Westminster Government has set the precedent by issuing a taxpayer funded propaganda leaflet against independence there is nothing stopping the Scottish Government issuing its own taxpayer funded counter leaflet.

    If the costs of Westminster’s propaganda leaflet don’t count against the allowances set by the Electoral Commission then the same must apply to the Scottish Government’s response leaflet which should have a cost allowance to the same value as Westminster’s.

    In fact there is a good case for its costs being borne by Westminster given that it is finding the taxpayers money for its own one.

    The Scotland’s Future doesn’t count as it was a draft white paper which the Scottish Government can issue any time it likes at taxpayers expense.

    Come on Scottish Government – Rev Stu has given you some ideas for the response leaflet – so get on with yours.

  101. CameronB Brodie says:

    Now that you mention it, the kids could have almost skipped out of a yogurt commercial from a bygone era, or perhaps processed cheese.

  102. heedtracker says:

    @ wingman 2020, RSA lecture’s a pretty shocking indictment of Brown,Darling “reckless inequality”. Bremner is a Brownophile though, so maybe he’ll ask about Brown’s man Balls, who says he’ll resign rather than negotiate Scottish currency union in bettertogether no thanks Guardian. Just how much damage can Labour do before this generation floats up to the Lords.

  103. The Rough Bounds says:

    I don’t know why so many of you are so surprised; it’s just propaganda and it’s what we should have learned to expect from the perfidious Brits.

    We really ought to be producing more of our own.

    How about a picture of a map of Scotland with a gigantic screwnail being driven into us and the words ‘Screwed’ beneath it? The letters U.K. could be written on the screwdriver.

    Ok! It’s not subtle, but the message is there is it not?

    People rarely read more than the headlines and ‘Screwed’ sums everything up.

  104. Andy says:

    Pretty sure Mark Carney has not indicated that the Bank of England would be lender of last resort to Scottish banks, whatever arrangements were made? So, fundamentally, monetary arrangements will not stay the same.

  105. Nana Smith says:

    Quite a few newspapers running the impoverished Scotland yarn, Lamont fantasies….

    http://www.thecourier.co.uk/news/scotland/yes-vote-will-impoverish-scotland-1.429571

  106. Tom Platt says:

    Saying “No” is foolishly laying ourselves open to all sorts of possible reprisals by an angry Westminster in which Scots are massively outnumbered and will be able to protect us even less well than they are doing so at the moment.

    Saying “Yes” is a matter of self respect. How can Scots go about the world again with their head held high if they belong to the only nation on earth that professes to be happy to be ruled by another nation?

    Tom

  107. Won’t spending that amount of money on this publication breach the Electoral Commission funding rules?

  108. Krackerman says:

    Oh aye – too poor eh? How could we possibly manage such a volatile resource as Oil… by god we’d spunk it all on buckfast and fish suppers in a year!!

    http://www.euronews.com/business-newswires/2557964-ftse-climbs-as-high-oil-price-pushes-up-energy-shares/

  109. heedtracker says:

    That Couriers a really hard no vote but they seem to use the Press Association a lot who are even more aggressive anti independence.

    But who owns the Press Association (PA)? Most of teamGB media own it but its a bit cowardly of them to use “Press Association” for a byline on all their bettertogther ukok running kicks to the nuts, sneaky/creepy but cowardly mostly.

    “The Press Association (PA) is a multimedia news agency operating in the United Kingdom and Ireland.

    PA is part of PA Group Limited,[1] a private company with 27 shareholders, most of whom are national and regional newspaper publishers. The biggest shareholders are Associated Newspaper Holdings Limited, News International plc, Trinity Mirror plc and United Business Media plc.”

  110. James Westland says:

    @ Free Scotland

    Interesting point about the colours. And as others have mentioned, they are really really really reticent about using the actual butchers apron itself. I dont think it features in much of the BT propaganda.

    Almost like they are scared or ashamed or whatever….

    Whereas the YES campaign makes plenty use of the Saltire. THe difference is staggering.

  111. ElaineS says:

    UKGov have been hiding under “Scottish Referendum” @youdecide2014 posting these false looking,wooden photos that are as far from truth of what real families in Scotland look like,sad, poor,hungry. They’ve been shoving this propaganda pretending to come over as impartial with the “youdecide” in their twitter addy and probably hoping folk won’t look closely on their profile that states the are UKGov. They sneak on in early hours to shove this in our faces. Cameron and his “Its the Decision of the Scots” while doing all they can to interfere.

  112. BuckieBraes says:

    The ‘public services’ image shows someone apparently collecting a prescription from a pharmacy. What is craftily implied is that Scotland only enjoys free prescriptions because it is part of the UK.

    Tell me this then, UK Government. If Scotland’s superior standards of public services – supposedly courtesy of being in the UK – are such a good thing (and they are), why aren’t these standards universal throughout that UK?

    Are we expected to believe that a self-sacrificing England, with ten times the population of Scotland, is happy with this arrangement?

    Funny too though: all of this doesn’t correspond at all with the ‘pooling and sharing’ concept espoused by the Labourite wing of ‘Better Together’.

    So, where would a No vote lead Scotland? Down the ‘pooling and sharing’ route, leading to the lowest common denominator in public services throughout the UK; or would it see a continuation of having an increasingly resentful England view us as ‘subsidy junkies’?

    In your own time, UK Government…

  113. Simon Chadwick says:

    I thought I posted a comment above about banks and interest rates? Did it never appear?

  114. galamcennalath says:

    Colours. For a change they are being in characteristically subtle. Well, not that subtle!

    They probably wanted to a avoid the Ranger day out look 🙂

    The symbolism is clear. The alternative interpretation of a butcher’s apron may however be more realistic.

  115. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    Scott Douglas says:

    “Shite doesn’t burn”

    Not true all organic matter will burn; just dry it out and light the blue touch flame.

    The Indians cook with it.

  116. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    Simon Charwick.

    First post?

    Just wait and repost.

  117. Simon Chadwick says:

    It was comment number 1632381 and it has gone! What did I do wrong?

  118. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    @
    BuckieBraes says:

    Bingo!

  119. Jon says:

    Dear Scotland

    I’ve just read all the comments above and can’t see a reason to keep the union if that’s the general opinion. But you are mistaken if you think currency union is anything other than a pipe dream, the rest of the UK are going to be………a bit to upset to consider that, national pride does exist in Wales and England as well you know, and we are all listening.

  120. Thepnr says:

    Westminster propaganda bah!

    No one reading this site is falling for it, however our fellow citizens are. Do you bit by talking to them. It is that simple. I know.

  121. Hood says:

    Simon Chadwick
    If you had a link to YouTube and didnt remove everything before the www, then it will not post. You have to remove the http:// part or it will be vaporised into cyberspace 🙂

  122. galamcennalath says:

    Just a passing thought on BT/UKGov propaganda … Did we actually manage to kill off VoteNoBorders?

  123. Sinky says:

    Regarding the UK government’s propaganda leaflet produced at taxpayer’s expense;

    Macandroid at 3:34 pm has the right idea

    Send it back to:

    Better Together
    FREEPOST RTAU-ZCRB-TELS
    5 Blythswood Square
    Glasgow
    G2 4AD

  124. CameronB Brodie says:

    Simon Chadwick
    Did you post a recipe involving rat? Probably the ongoing DDOS if not.

  125. cynicalHighlander says:

    Maybe the Rev could put utube instructions in here if footy allows I think they have half times.

    Comment – new users please read this page first for commenting rules.

  126. Onwards says:

    How about a picture of a map of Scotland with a gigantic screwnail being driven into us and the words ‘Screwed’ beneath it? The letters U.K. could be written on the screwdriver.

    Or London as a giant ball and chain.

  127. cynicalHighlander says:

    @galamcennalath

    No roots!

  128. Paula Rose says:

    I’m not throwing mine away or posting it, I’m going to read it with much hilarity in public places and show others how ridiculous its contents are – a great campaigning tool!

  129. Another Union Dividend says:

    I see that Ed Balls has said he would resign before agreeimg to a currency union. Well that must persuade a few thousand who lost their jobs or money in the banking crash to vote YES.

    From Private Eye 14 Feb 2011 “NEW shadow chancellor Ed Balls wasted no time painting his Tory opponents as the bankers’ friends.

    Could this be the same Ed Balls whose speeches to the bankers before the crash could only be listened to with sickbag to hand? To the City of London Corporation in October 2006, he boasted of “our light-touch and risk-based regulatory approach combined with the great pool of talent gathered from across the planet that underpins London’s success as a modern international financial centre”.

    In the same month he also abased himself before the British Bankers’ Association, admitting that “my starting point, as a Treasury minister. is this: what more can I do can we do together -to support and enhance the critical role that the banking industry plays in our economy?”

    The toadying continued: “It is your success and the strength of our economy that enables you to fulfil your wider social responsibilities.”
    In his first speech as a Treasury minister a few months earlier, Balls had stressed: “It is important that the financial Services Authority continues to deliver a Iight-touch and risk-based regulatory approach. It was he claimed, “a huge competitive advantage” -betraying his view of the role of regulation.
    It was such a huge advantage, in fact, that in the words of the National Audit Office in the wake of Northern Rock, it amounted to a “systemic failure of duty”

  130. Tam Jardine says:

    That first pic with the bairns running through the hills makes me sad. The fact there are five reminds me that one in five kids are growing up in poverty in Scotland.

    If we lose the referendum, how long before it becomes two in five? What percentage of children living in poverty becomes unacceptable for those voting no? 50% or higher maybe? With the cuts that are in the post, it ain’t getting better anytime soon. When, (if not now) do we say ‘enough’?

    If we lose, how long before tuition fees are reintroduced?

    If we lose, things that we benefit naught from like son of trident and hs2 are miles up the list of priorities in front of the Scottish children depicted.

    When, if not in September, do those intending to vote no think we are going to start making the country a fairer place and reducing the inequality that is the shameful consequence of centuries of Westminster rule? Or is it like the weather – beyond our control and therefore not worth bothering about?

  131. Lynn Blair says:

    Good idea Paula! Will keep mine for my new media students post summer and use it to teach about bias. I’ll do it pre September 18th and of course, if any questions should crop up, it would be negligent of me not to answer them ….

  132. Robert Peffers says:

    @Nana Smith says:“Quite a few newspapers running the impoverished Scotland yarn, Lamont fantasies….”

    There’s no problem in shooting Ms Lamont’s claims down in flames, Nana Smith, it equates to a claim the English taxpayers in the UK are subsidising the Scots to maintain the services Lamont claims could not be sustained without subsidy..

    So the simple reply to the Labour Party numptie is, “Why are the Labour Party so keen to retain the Scots within the United Kingdom if they really are so expensive for the UK taxpayers to keep the Scottish Scroungers in the style to which the Scots have become so accustomed?

    Only a very stupid government would wish to keep a liability of such proportions hung around its neck. Would it not be more sensible, in the midst of the present UK financial crisis, for UK Labour to campaign for a YES vote and thus rid the UK of the Scottish nation of skint scroungers forever?

    I’d love to see Johann splutter and wriggle attempting to explain away why the Labour Party wants to hang onto such a great liability.

  133. Ian Sanderson says:

    Forensic analysis as always Rev… Congratulations

  134. TJenny says:

    Cynical Highlander says:

    ‘Maybe the Rev could put utube instructions in here if footy allows I think they have half times.

    Comment – new users please read this page first for commenting rules.’

    What like the advice above the comment box;

    ‘Comment – new users please read this page first for commenting rules. HTML tags like and are permitted. Use the live preview box.’this page’ is a link to the rules. No. 7 relates to posting links.

  135. Helen says:

    I suggest a mass refusal of this document by sending it back. The original sender pays the return postage. My postman says the protocol is to write: Refused. Return to Sender

  136. Neil Craig says:

    On the question of labour being able to find grass roots supporters:

    During the EU election I stood outside our local polling station pushing UKIP. There was a Green there for some of the time. Nobody else. I was told nobody else all day. This is in Glasgow where Labour used to be able to deliver supporters by the vanload. No NatConDems either.

    When you look at party membership numbers a generation ago, or worse, 2 generations ago it is obvious how much all parties have been hollowed out of real members and reduced to an incestuous relationship between a few of them and the BBC & other media. Irrespective of party this is destructive of democracy.

  137. Paula Rose says:

    Half times? How does that work?

  138. Thepnr says:

    This site is where we get educated. Where to go from here? Out into the streets be it friends or strangers we must engage.

    Iy’s on a knife edge right now is my feeling but we will tip the balance. It is natural to be a bit reticent and no doubt hesitant. However, we carry the more positive message.

    has anyone at all ever tried you to vote No? that’s extremely doubtful, they are anonymous, grassroots supporters of BT that is. We are the exact opposite in vision and in commitment. Do your wee bit each day, that is far better than a million pound advert.

    Their on the run, lets chase the naysayers all the way back to their Westminster bunker. Every single day now is important, please don’t waste a single one without doing your own wee bit.

  139. Another Union Dividend says:

    Neil

    SNP has the most numbers in Scotland at over 25,000 but it is not the best use of manpower to stand at a polling station all day as 98% of voters have aleady made their mind up.

  140. Davy says:

    Funny enough “Neil Craig” outside our polling station for the EU election, their was no ukip-tory/libdem-lab representives either, then again who could tell the difference your all torys to us.

    And the next time your “pushing ukip” please find a cliff first.

  141. Thepnr says:

    Feeding the troll garners no votes.

  142. Liquid Lenny says:

    Rev the UK Debt is going up by about 1.6 Trillion on Sept 30th 2014, as it has to take the public service pension liabilities and PFI debt amongst others on the books as debt as it moves to the European System of Accounts (Esa10)

    The good news is that now Prostitution and Illegal Drug dealing will count towards the UK’s GDP.

    (Source for that bit about the Drugs and Prostitution David Smith Economic Outlook Sunday Times 15/06/14

  143. handclapping says:

    @Paula Rose
    You’ld need a proper man to tell you but from the days I had a telly the men kicking the ball about got tired and went off for a fag or whatever but the men telling us what was going on, who never tire, carry on telling us what was going on with their faces on the telly untill the man in black blows his whistle and they, the ones showing their knees, start the other way round.

    There is also a wee lad with oranges but I’m not sure how he fits in.

  144. Free at 63! says:

    @ handclapping.

    Love it -teehee!

  145. Tam Jardine says:

    Thepnr

    It is strange – never once in all the conversations I have had with no voters has anyone ever tried to change my mind. Maybe they think I’m unreachable but I suppose with the media playing their big brother doing all the campaigning for them, they don’t see the point.

    I think of all the brave souls out canvassing on our side – just imagine how mental door stepping for better together must be! The few out there must be getting short shrift and in some cases torn apart by well informed yessers.

    Anyone reading and wanting to know more: don’t be afraid to ask questions. I have come across the most amazing range of intelligent and knowledgeable folk on this site and they are there to help.

    And don’t forget: Wings Edinburgh night out: 4th July 7.30-8ish at the Newsroom on Leith Street (downstairs).

    @CameronB

    Are you able to make it?

  146. Paula Rose says:

    So if Scotland was one of the teams chasing balls they could wear kilts!

  147. Peter Mirtitsch says:

    Neil Craig, how would rUK subsidise Scottish windfarms? We pay MORE to feed into the grid than English turbines, and we produce MORE energy, so much so that we EXPORT a quarter of it to ENGLAND, and PAY for the privelege.

  148. scottish_skier says:

    @Neil Craig

    Incidentally, do you have any info on what UKIP will do in Scotland in the event of a Yes vote?

    I’m assuming they have a post Yes manifesto in preparation and a new party name at the ready? Can you provide any links? If folk are to be more tempted by them, evidence of forward planning would be a must; one of the reasons ToryLibLab are in trouble. Seems to me UKIP are alienating voters by their anti-‘taking back control of Scotland’ stance. They need to give more voice to the sizable pro-iScotland group in their ranks and this could help.

    I suppose this would apply equally in Scotland and the rUK; at least the name change bit.

    Nigel Farage must have contingency plans here surely? Would be odd going into 2015 in the rUK calling yourself ‘UKIP’ whilst the UK is politically ending. ‘Britain’ you can get away with as that = England, but UK is trickier.

    ScotIP / ScIP could work fine north of the border. A more centrist to a modest left SNP type stance would be best policy-wise to appeal to a broach church, otherwise, in terms of garnering support to leave the EU, it’ll be a struggle as the far left – the other source of anti-EU votes – will never go for it and ScIP will be seen as fringe Tories.

    Just some thoughts on your earlier posts re garnering less protest votes and more ‘for government’ ones.

    Coburn’s great BTW; cracks me up watching him go for it. What a character! Why are we not seeing more of him? He seems to be pushing hard for Yes ‘in his own way’ from what I have seen (I’m assuming he’s hoping the rumours we’ll be chucked out of the EU are true and this is his angle). Which probably explains the lack of MSM coverage…

  149. Grouse Beater says:

    Aztecs 2. Conquistadors nada.

  150. Grouse Beater says:

    Robert Peffers: I’d love to see Johann splutter and wriggle.

    With her standard of acuity that would be tantamount to expounding political philosophy.

  151. Paula Rose says:

    Was Spain playing with Mexico?

  152. Roll_On_2014 says:

    Another Union Dividend: 9:12 pm

    I see that Ed Balls has said he would resign before agreeimg to a currency union. Well that must persuade a few thousand who lost their jobs or money in the banking crash to vote YES.

    AUD I reckon you mean this Ed Balls:

    The Ball’s up at the Coop.

    During a speech in 2010, Mr Balls told how he helped grease the wheels of the 2009 deal. He claimed it would create the ‘first ever super-mutual’ providing a better deal for customers ‘rather than the banking elite’.

    In reality, the merger was sowing the seeds of disaster for the Co-op Bank, which is now launching a raid on its own investors to plug a £1.5billion black hole in its finances.

    Mr Balls claimed that as Economic Secretary under Gordon Brown he secured the Treasury’s backing for a new Private Member’s Bill that allowed the takeover to be pushed through.

    The Butterfill Bill was passed in 2007 and lifted a ban on mutuals and co-operatives from merging.

    At that time regulators were concerned about the quality of the loans on Britannia’s books.

    Labour received £750,000 in donations from the Co-op Group in 2009 – the same year the merger was sealed.

    Well at least it appears that NuLabour did not do it for nothing.

    My apologies for the source…. but they where the only ones that printed this story.

  153. rog_rocks says:

    Heh, wouldn’t surprise me if the BBC provided the photographer for it, am also surprised they’re not using some B-2’s for the leaflet drop; add to the fear!

    Are they not already planning to buzz the Battle of Bannockburn Ceremony with some British military show guised as an unheard of celebration of the beginning of WW1?

    They’re up here getting their fingers in about everything the now… but am thinking most folk get what they’re up to.

  154. frazer allan whyte says:

    “For centuries Scottish people have been at the heart of the United Kingdom’s armed forces, which keep us safe at home and abroad.”

    The technical term is “canon fodder”.

  155. Grouse Beater says:

    Correction: Incas 2. Conquistadors nada.

    Looking forward to seeing Scotland in the next WC.

  156. Midgehunter says:

    @ Paula Rose

    .. and if it was a kilted labour team then their best players would be brown balls… 🙂

  157. Grouse Beater says:

    The technical term is “canon fodder”.

    Cannon fodder was a familiar term of scorn when I was student. I also heard a lot the phrase, “When England sneezes Scotland catches a cold.” Don’t hear it at all these days.

  158. bookie from hell says:

    scottish flags

    rampant lion
    saltire

    every polling station

  159. Grouse Beater says:

    Bookie said: Scottish flags: rampant lion

    Never been comfortable about that one. Nor a lion recumbent, or comatose, for that matter.

  160. Thepnr says:

    Ok I;m sure most of you know their is another Wings night meet up organised for Independence day 4th July!

    It is in the Newsroom, in our capital city Edinburgh and has been organised by Tam Jardine. This time the difference is we have the lower bar to ourselves until 22:30 that is. Apparently it opens as a nightclub at 23:00.

    The last Counting House night out in Glasgow had twice as many as the first, potential is that this will be bigger. I hope so at least as we take our message across Scotland.

    Like last time I am happy to organise a bus from Dundee & Angus if the demand is there, so far I have 9 for sure but need 30 to make it worthwhile. I’ll still be going either way but it will be by train which doesn;t suit those in the more out of the way places.

    Can anybody interested who has not already done so let me know over in Off Topic. Thanks.

  161. Denis Mollison says:

    Where did you get the figure of 748 million for EU population from? Wikipedia says 505 million in 2013.

  162. Col says:

    Sorry but this is beyond decent! STV News at Ten tonight 18/6/14 was nothing more than a rant in favour of war “again” in Iraq. WTF? BBC no better when I switched over.!
    Oh no, “White Kids” are falling behind now too!
    AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
    We have to cut ties with London`s media ASAP.
    This is too much for me to handle. Where is Scotland`s voice? NI`s voice? Wales`s voice?

  163. cynicalHighlander says:

    @TJenny

    Simple instructions in here

    http://wingsoverscotland.com/About/

  164. Col says:

    Silence, Scotland! Let the big boys speak now

  165. Derek M says:

    @ frazer i wouldnt call our boys cannon fodder they are some of the finest toughest soldiers on the planet and once we are independent they will do a grand job of defending Scotland,they might not get to do as much fighting as they would like though lol

  166. Free at 63! says:

    @grouse beater.

    I heard that when USA sneezes Britain catches the cold. I suppose if England sneezes then Scotland catches pneumonia.

  167. Democracy Reborn says:

    The benefits of ‘punching above our weight’, ad nauseum….

    Just watched main item on BBC news. Cameron at PMQs talking about ISIS (Iraq) potentially targeting the UK. Blair’s legacy lives on – you have to hand it to him. First Al Qaeda, now this. Donchajust luv letting Westminster dictate your foreign policy? The trouble begins though when they decide to throw their ‘weight’ around….

  168. James Westland says:

    @ Sinky

    The addresses have always intrigued me:

    Yes Scotland – Hope St – as in hope, positive, aspiration.
    BT – Blythswood Square, where the hoors used to hang out….

    🙂

  169. Clootie says:

    @Thepnr

    I reckon you have my offshore rota worked out and you don ‘t want me attending : (
    Maybe next time – why nothing in Aberdeen?

  170. Simon Chadwick says:

    No there were no links, no youtubes, no rats, just economic sarcasm. And I am not a new poster! Perhaps the DDOS makes the site refresh itself and lose comments?

    It was a good comment too I thought!

  171. Sinky says:

    Had misfortune to click onto trailer for the dreadful BBC Scotland 2014 programme which is featuring Morrison’s supermarket banning English World Cup songs.

    Talk about dumbing down the referendum debate.

  172. Clootie says:

    @ James Westland

    BT has taken the neighbourhood down.

  173. Grouse Beater says:

    On tonight’s show,…” Sarah Smith’s opening remark betrays the level BBC Scotland’s flagship ‘political programme’ aims.

  174. Thepnr says:

    @Clootie

    That will be up to you then. You sort it, we will come!

  175. Grouse Beater says:

    Oor Sarah is getting shirty with the SNP rep but offering deference to the professor representing the union.

    The prof says the Treasury always thinks of Scotland when settoing interest rates, as well as the ‘rest of the country. It would not need to do that if we were indepedent and sharing a currency. Eh?

    Next item:

    Sarah’s pal is off to Catalonia to interview supporters of Scotland’s ambitions, and – for BBC balance – second-rate politicians who say they intend to do all they can to block Scotland staying in the EU. Viva Espana!

    Escosia – scorchio!

  176. Andy smith says:

    Was trying to figure where I’d seen the top photo before, no,not the sound of music,but “the happiness of the katakuri’s”, they are taking the piss now,check it out!

  177. Thepnr says:

    Scotland 2014 hahahhahahah

    …………………./´¯/)
    ………………..,/¯../
    ………………./…./
    …………./´¯/’…’/´¯¯`·¸
    ………./’/…/…./……./¨¯\
    ……..(‘(…´…´…. ¯~/’…’)
    ………\……………..’…../
    ……….”…\………. _.·´
    …………\…………..(
    …………..\………….\…

  178. SheepOnFire says:

    Python stars: BBC is ‘destructive’ – Showbiz news;

    Monty Python stars John Cleese and Terry Gilliam have hit out at the BBC for “destroying creativity”.

    The duo, who are reuniting for a series of shows at London’s O2 Arena in July, said their 1969 show Flying Circus would not be made in these times, because the corporation would have curbed their freedom.

    “One of the things that makes me saddest about the way the country has gone since I was young is the BBC. I look back at what was a magnificent institution. Then, for economic reasons, that wonderful institution was thinned down,” John told Time Out.

    “In those days the departmental heads were trusting of their producers. What happens now is you have a new species, a ‘commissioning editor’, who, as far as I can make out, haven’t actually written comedy, or directed it, and yet they seem to think that they understand comedy. This would be fine if they did understand it, but comedy is very difficult.

    “Just look around – there’s an awful amount of c**p. These decisions are being taken by people who don’t understand comedy but don’t realise that they don’t understand it,” he continued.

    Terry agreed: “The system is so executive-heavy now: there’s an army of compliance cops. Everything now has to be pre-digested for the nation by frightened executives who don’t want to lose their jobs. For creative people it’s very, very destructive.”

    Monty Python Live (Mostly) – One Down, Five To Go, which kicks off on July 1, will feature all the remaining Pythons – John, Terry, Eric Idle, Terry Jones and Michael Palin. The other original member Graham Chapman, who died in 1989, will also feature on screen.

    Eric said: “Luckily we have film footage of him. He’s even going to sing, for f***’s sake!”

    http://www.talktalk.co.uk/news/showbiz/article/python-stars-bbc-is-destructive/133854/

  179. cynicalHighlander says:

    The war drums are rollig.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zC9okWm8A6o&feature=kp

  180. No no no...yes says:

    D Torrance and Kevin mckenna on BBC2014(yes I know) saying there could be a currency union. This after Patrick Harvie put Slab Sarah Smith in her place…

  181. Morag Graham Kerr says:

    Simon, nobody knows why some posts vanish. Occasionally Stu deletes a post because he doesn’t like the formatting (paragraph breaks, people!), but these will appear first before disappearing. The ones that don’t post at all are a mystery unless they have YouTube links in them (or maybe there are some kill-file words too, like p-a-g-e r-e-f-r-e-s-h).

    I had one that kept not posting. I saved my second try (which still didn’t appear despite being a re-type) and tried several times, deleting words or character strings that might have been doing it but no luck. I think Stu found them in the spam filter but why was never explained.

  182. molly says:

    Heedtracker, I admire your patience with the Courier and P and J but have you seen The Stooshie? I stumbled across it in Asda.

    It seems to be by DC Thomson with quite a few Courier contributors. Its a kind of round up of whats happened in Scotland over the week with articles from the media,just in case you haven’t come across it?- smileything

  183. Grouse Beater says:

    Completely spurious questions asked of unknown Spanish right-wing politico from Scotland 2014’s emissary:

    “Will Scotland have to join the queue to join the EU”
    “Will you delay or even block Scotland’s entry into the EU”

    (Half-expected to hear a “pul-leeeeze”)

    No explanation of Spain’s current right-wing agenda.

    No mention of England wanting out of the EU.

    Patrick Harvie on now doing his best to regain ground lost by BBC’s seriously inane questions. Straw men, women, dugs, flags, pantaloons, or whatever, is the latest wheeze to describe someone postulating bollocks.

    “And now lets hear what’s happening in the rest of the wurruld” says Sarah as if bored with Scotland and two-minute deep as a puddle interviews.

    Her short encounter with the rest of the ‘wurrold’ is backed by some eejit hitting piano keys at random with his forehead.

    Now we are back to Ed Balls reminding us, courtesy of the BBC, that he would never negotiate a currency union. He would “resign” if there was one. But brief analysis of his statement is at a loss to find the word ‘resign’ anywhere in his shirt pocket let alone his lexicon.

    Finally, the funny bit at the end – no kitten caught up a tree – so instead we get, “Should we support England’s team in the Wurrold Cup?” Lots of laughter among guests to denote we’re all pals, really, and Scotland’s Referendum will soon go away.

    This is book-ended by more silly cue music, a sting, now a fiddle bow whacking piano keys.

    Finally two pundits agree there is more likelihood of a currency union that not thus renedering the last few minutes redundant and irrelevant, like the bloody “show”.

    Time for Jeremy Paxman’s last Newnight.

  184. Thepnr says:

    @Morag

    Peoples posts disappearing more than likely have nothing to do with the Rev at all. It is just so.

    I had problems with a single post a few weeks back, five hours to get that post on the board, some may say obsessive, I prefer determined.

  185. Nana Smith says:

    @Grouse Beater

    Thanks for that run down, much better than the actual programme, to be honest I don’t watch it anyway. I would only be screeching which doesn’t do my blood pressure any good.

  186. twenty14 says:

    O/T – Rev’s just tweeted that The Scotsman will be posting a retraction and apology tomorrow – lets post it everywere

  187. Grouse Beater says:

    I am pretty well certain Scotland 2014 is broadcast from a Morningside tea room so bloody genteel and inconsequential is it’s subject matter and the way it conducts itself.

    Sarah Smith has absolutely no authority.

    A hungover weather wummin could do better her head in a paper bag.

  188. Clootie says:

    @Paula Rose

    The fitba thingy counts as being a troll.

  189. Thepnr says:

    I hope this works. Here’s my wee dug with wings!

    [IMG]http://i804.photobucket.com/albums/yy321/Thepnr/MacAgility1_zps2d08104e.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

  190. Jakki says:

    Jack Murphy

    The Royal College of Nursing were indeed debating on whether GP should charge for appointments, however, having sat through the debate in person, the members debating categorically refused to accept this and there was some very passionate debating to reject the idea. As always the media have jumped on the negative bandwagon.

  191. Grouse Beater says:

    Rev’s just tweeted that The Scotsman will be posting a retraction and apology tomorrow

    Great news!

    The Scotsman’s blunder is emblematic of the ethics of the stick wi’ us or yer deed campaign.

  192. Thepnr says:

    Sorry a dud, last try.

    http://i804.photobucket.com/albums/yy321/Thepnr/MacAgility1_zps2d08104e.jpg

    Dog who thinks he’s a Tornado.

  193. twenty14 says:

    Sorry – ” Expecting ” a retraction and apology tomorrow

  194. awayanbileyerheed says:

    Its so IRONIC that BT use CHILDREN to try and get their message over when it’s all our kids that NEED independence most of all, thats why I put this together in light of that:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPve0HuEU2I

  195. Grouse Beater says:

    Expecting” a retraction and apology tomorrow

    And it had better not be squeezed into the Births, Deaths, and Marriages column.

  196. ronnie anderson says:

    @ Thepnr 10.49, & your point IS thats a fat finger

  197. Grouse Beater says:

    Its so IRONIC that BT use CHILDREN to try and get their message over

    A paedophile’s delight.

  198. ronnie anderson says:

    mfmf @ Thepnr do the have to provide their own Vasaline

  199. handclapping says:

    @Clootie
    I never feed trolls

  200. Grouse Beater says:

    Scotland 2014 is broadcast from a Morningside tea room

    Just remembered that the Smith family lived, in Morningside – one of its poshest avenues, to be exact.

  201. Thepnr says:

    I may have a fat finger but it’s on the pulse!

    Well done the Rev if that apology is printed tomorrow. Let’s not allow them away with anything.

    After all this is a free country, eh!

  202. heedtracker says:

    @ Grouse Beater, lol critique! Sarah Smith show like the Telly Tubbies compared to a Paxo Newsnight but BBC sound engineers definitely messing with Baron Von Mandelson there, just like they do with SNP people in Scotland, the gits.

  203. Grouse Beater says:

    Heedtracker said: sound engineers definitely messing with Baron Von Mandelson there

    Even after helping to slaughter thousands of innocent people in far off lands, as well as fiddling expenses, one knows one automatically becomes a grand old man – in Mandolson’s case, dame – of politics. One only need wait long enough.

    Hey, Jeremy, you fading old cad, you and I are in the same gentelman’s club. You’re one of us!
    Gawd! So I am, Boris. How perceptive, you womanising fart.
    Let’s cycle off into the sunset together on this old bike pretending to discuss the lot of good old Londoners and the cost of water cannon.
    A nightmare of an idea, Boris, you bloated buffoon. But I’ll do it. Always wanted to act like an adolescent twat.
    Do you know, Jeremy, 63 percent ot tourist come to London before visiting the rest of England?

  204. Grouse Beater says:

    Paxman signs off for the last time with….

    ….. wait for it…..

    “I won’t shout out for this is England. Goodnight.”

    next, a BBC commercial: “This is Glastonbury!”…

    No. This is England. Paxman confirmed it.

    Goodnight England.

    And goodbye.

  205. Liquid Lenny says:

    Couple of posts gone awol so will repeat this one, When stating that the UK debt is 1.4 Trillion pounds, you are behind the curve, on September 30th 2014 the UK is changing its accounting system to the European Accounting system, something which it has been promising to do since G Brown was PM. Anyway by doing so the Public Sector pension liabilities and PFI debt amongst others will have to come on the books, at a stroke increasing the UK’s on balance sheet debt to an astonishing 4 trillion pounds.

    In my opinion they are doing this in a attempt to get Scotland to service the additional sums as the “normal” debt and our share of assets are similar meaning that we would not have to service much of their debt.

    There is good news, according to David Smith in the Sunday Times of the 15th June 2014, by moving to the EU accounting system (ESA10) we can now add prostitution and illegal drugs income to our Gross Domestic Product. What will they do next to try and fool us that the economy is getting stronger?

  206. HandandShrimp says:

    Looks like the Sun is running with a pretty negative You Gov poll tomorrow. Low number of Don’t Knows and the Yes No thing still stuck at 36/53

  207. Clootie says:

    @handclapping

    ?

    I never commented on your posts?

  208. Clootie says:

    @thepnr

    Touché – fair comment 😛

  209. ronnie anderson says:

    Just caught up on PMQs, the MP for Leeds asking the PM to

    have Pigs Feet removed from the banned list & fit for human

    consumption as a Export to China. Would the whole of the

    Commons/HoL Trot of to China,we live in hope.

  210. Derek says:

    Regarding “a big decision that affects everything”; nuclear weapons aren’t mantioned in your quote. Do they figure in this document?

  211. call me dave says:

    Poll details on Scotgoespop

  212. TJenny says:

    Ronnie Anderson – that’s a great photo of you and the Wee Ginger Dug’s, wee ginger dug.

  213. hetty says:

    Thepnr says:
    ‘Dog who thinks he’s a Tornado’.

    A great image, I can see that being a great ad for a YES poster!

    Oh and the bt leaflet photos looked photoshopped, badly.
    Might get to the get together on the 4th, when more info?

  214. ronnie anderson says:

    @ T Jenny,Just thought I would visit Paul,Andy,Ginger while

    I was in the area.Paul is overwhelmed with the generosity of

    the Wings family & other people from other sites, as for

    Ginger I just said Hola & I a instant reaction,when Ginger

    lay on my lap Paul took the photo.

  215. TJenny says:

    hetty – info’s in OT, but as there are a fair few comments since last posting of the details, here they are:

    WOS night in Edinburgh on Fri 4th July in The Newsroom (downstairs), top of Leith Street. If you’re from Dundee, Arbroath area, Thepnr’s organising a bus if he can get 30 folk to use it.

  216. TJenny says:

    ronnie – glad you got time for a wee visit to Paul and Andy’s as I don’t suppose there’s much chance of him making it through to Edin on the 4th. If you go see him again, say hello and clap the WGD’s wgd for me. 🙂

  217. ronnie anderson says:

    @ T Jenny I no doupt will popin to see them again,as for Paul

    manageing the Wings nite out I could’nt say, Im sure he

    would want to be there but it is a long time to leave Andy,

    if he could arrange a carer,he did,nt have much time at the

    Ch1,Im sure given the circumstance now he would like to meet

    everyone.

  218. TJenny says:

    ronnie – fingers crossed then.:-)

  219. TJenny says:

    although that disnae make typing any easier.

  220. ronnie anderson says:

    @ doesent make my typos any better with fingers uncrossed lol

  221. ronnie anderson says:

    Theres ah Winger buzzin aboot ma heid thats gonna get its

    wings severly clipped wie a dose of fly spray.

  222. Thepnr says:

    Right I’ve work the morn so must get to bed. ronnie you make me laugh, TJenny you have my respect, well done on the WGD fundraiser. It was your enthusiasm got it started. xxx

  223. ronnie anderson says:

    @ Thepnr nite nite

  224. ronnie anderson says:

    Ave run ootta fly sprey the wee fucker lives tae fly anither

    day.

  225. Gus Coutts says:

    Can I suggest that all who receive this Project Fear Pack of Lies – puts it in an enevelope addressed to D. Cameron, 10,, Downing St., London and stick it in a Pillar Box without a stamp.

  226. bunter says:

    Seems a lot of folk still watching the terrible Scotland2014. Can we no get an archive version lol.

  227. Ken500 says:

    The advertising looks like a spoof. 50 years out of date. The NO campaign PR company must be supporting YES. Kids running round hills, in reality too many kids are living in poverty,not doing well in education. Student loans are means tested on household income (Lamentable), many straight ‘A’ students can’t go to Uni or drop out, because of funding issues.

    Vote YES so kids do not live in poverty and get a better education. Bairns not bombs.

  228. john king says:

    Grouse Beater says
    “Aztecs 2. Conquistadors nada.”

    Ha ha good one

    Heres a good one for you
    BBC free newspaper advert
    “Supermarket shelves England football songs in Scottish supermarkets”

    “Morrisons has stopped playing English football songs in their Scottish supermarkets after complaints by Scottish customers (perhaps unsurprisingly)Morrisons were playing things like three Lions, and Vindaloo, one chap (Christopher ) told the Daily Record, I thought I had taken a wrong turn and ended up in the middle of England”

    This is the company that is shedding 2000 jobs and thinks its OK to insult its Scottish customers, what the hell is wrong with that crowd
    oh btw I nearly forgot, the 18 page, FRONT AND BACK rant (no sweary words)I emailed them on their contact form got a response,

    it said something like charitable requests will be dealt with in due course and we will get back to you asap.

    I didn’t use the contact for charitable requests.

    Paula Rose says

    “Was Spain playing with Mexico?”

    Not with dear, against. 🙂

    Thepnr says
    “Feeding the troll garners no votes.”

    Cant see how Neil can be accused of trolling,
    let the man have his say.

  229. Roll_On_2014 says:

    OT

    I see that Tory MSP Alex Johnstone is having a bang at Stu and this site via Magnus Gardham over at the Herald.

  230. Ken500 says:

    Stop watching BBC. Be selective. No viewers – no programmes. Same old, Same old. Labour/Unionist school tie.

  231. Ken500 says:

    Gardham/Johnstone want freedom of the Press for themselves but want to censor, delete and ban everyone else.

    No free and balanced Press. No Democracy. Press barons preserve their personal fortunes, telling lies. Controlled by Westminster. All in it together.

  232. bunter says:

    Blue ED all over the front pages, (darn sarf anyway) regards taking away benefits from oor youngsters. He is slowly losing the plot as he tacks right looking for the right wing xenophobe middle England vote and does YES a huuuge favour.

    How will chaps like trarquin cretin censor news such as this.

  233. bunter says:

    Time for a rerun of the Revs article on the vile Johnstone and his smear on the Weirs.

  234. ronnie anderson says:

    The great Socialist Leader has spoken, Red ED will stop

    benifits of 17/21 yr olds unless their in a training

    proggramme ( more Private companys making money from the

    disadvantaged youth )

    Young people will only be allowed to claim benifits ( after

    working full time for 5 yrs )

    How to win a Election by Red Ed Milliband ( better

    consulting Mr Ed the Talking Horse)

    Where are the FKin Training Proggrammes

    Where are the JOBS after the Young People finnish Training.

    Shuffeleing the Unemployment figures again & again

    NOT IN TRAINING FOR WORK, PLACES DONT EXCIST

    NOT IN FULL TIME WORK , NOT ENOUGH JOBS

    NOT IN RECEIPT OF UNEMPLOYMENT BENIFIT

    {NO ROOF OVER THEIR HEADS}
    {NO MONEY TO BUY FOOD}

    VOTE LABOUR THE GREAT INTERNATIONALIST SOCIALIST PARTY
    & WATCH YOUR CHILDREN STARVE.

    OR SPREAD THE MESSAGE VOTING, YES YES YES AGAIN

    FOR A INDEPENDENT SCOTLAND

    WE CAN CHANGE THINGS FOR SCOTLANDS PEOPLE & THE REST OF

    THE UK.

    Morning all, rant over for now.

  235. scottish_skier says:

    More free advertising.

    http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/referendum-news/yes-campaign-distances-itself-from-controversial-website-link.24528929

    The cross-party Yes organisation ordered a local group to stop distributing material endorsing the Wings Over Scotland website.

    The move followed a complaint by Conservative MSP Alex Johnstone, who was described by Wings Over Scotland as a liar and “fat troughing scum”.

  236. No don’t send it back to Better Together or they’ll just add you to their database as a ‘supporter.’

    Simply write in black capitals ‘RETURN TO SENDER’ across your own address. The advantage of doing it this way is that if enough of us do this, it will gum up the workings of the semi-privatised Royal Mail and register you as a Yes supporter.

    Let’s encourage everyone to do this as a mass protest.

  237. Ken500 says:

    Johnstone, ‘if the cap fits wear it’

  238. R whittington says:

    Am I the only one on here who played (or cares about) Sensible Soccer?

  239. Another Union Dividend says:

    Scottish skier

    Herald claims wings only has 13,000 viewers! Shurely some mstake and some crazy letters n Herald ths morning.

    Any word of Scotsman’s apology to wings not according to BBC.

  240. caz-m says:

    O/T

    Blow for the Royal and Ancient. (Golf)

    Rory McIlroy has binned Team GB for Team Ireland in the 2016 Rio Olympics. And they all thought Rory was a right wee Brit. Surely now he must come out and support Scottish Independence.

    https://uk.news.yahoo.com/rory-mcilroy-chooses-play-ireland-rio-122720828.html?.tsrc=samsungwn#2o0OafT

    C’mon Andy Murray, tell us you want to be part of Team Scotland at the same event.

  241. Dorothy Devine says:

    I read the attack in the Herald by thon mannie wi’ the upsidedown smile – please be careful Stu , we need you and Scotland needs you and the WGD, Bella , Newsnet and the rest.

    Ronnie , T Jenny is spot on that is a great photo and you look so well , more power tae yer elbow!
    Looks like the fundraiser will meet the target well in advance of its stop date which is excellent1

  242. Elliot Bulmer says:

    Just a suggestion, but could we use some of the money raised (or another fund-raiser) to put out a response to every address in Scotland – poking holes in all this nonsense and including a free Wings sticker?

  243. john king says:

    Another slight against Scotland by a Scot no less when Louise whatshername on BBC Breakfast asked the weather woman @ Royal Ascot if she thinks standing next to a hoarding with a union flag might not be construed as not balanced by Scottish viewers, the weather woman just smirked,

    tick tock
    tick tock
    tick tock.

  244. Rosa Alba Macdonald says:

    Picture -prescriptions being handed over; legend -services more affordable; fact – free prescriptions in Scotland not rUK; conclusion – the publicity machine have not done their homework nor do they know their public and subsidised services in Scotland from their increasingly crony-orientated, privatised or franchised eirses.

  245. Grouse Beater says:

    John King said: Morrisons has stopped playing English football songs in their Scottish supermarkets after complaints by Scottish customers

    It’s amazing how dumb some companies can be when in Rome.

  246. desimond says:

    R whittington

    Sensible soccer sprites were far too wee for me, i was more a Barbarian or Joust fan myself

    Also liked some fitbaw game where sprites were massive in comparison but cant mind the name( i keep thinking Microsoft Soccer but thats probably wrong)

  247. john king says:

    I wonder if they do requests?
    maybe we should ask them to do Ally’s Tartan Army on English supermarkets? 🙂

  248. john king says:

    on=in

  249. Dorothy Devine says:

    Preferred ” On” myself John.

  250. Chic McGregor says:

    Here is one my daughter took on one of the Indy marches. It wasn’t staged, just one of those perchance photo ops which sometimes come up.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/v5rkor2eea2c57n/P1060201.JPG

  251. Hugh Mcmillan says:

    Statistically speaking at least one of those happy kids is living in poverty

  252. Sunshine on Crieff says:

    I’ve been delivering these things today (I’m a postie) and was surprised at how amateurish the things were. And creepy! Just look at those images! If those happy/smiley people are supposed to show that everything is so perfect in the British union then that isn’t what comes across to me. More like life is so miserable being shackled to the UK that everyone in Scotland is on mood-enhancing drugs!

    And the points made are just the sort of rubbish that Capn Darling, et al, comes out with in press realeases every single day. There was absolutely no need to spend taxpayer’s money.

    Rebutting this propaganda must have been one one of Rev Stu’s easier jobs.

    Just one thing. The driver who delivered these booklets to our delivery office was complaining that they had arrived at the depot at the last minute, causing them a lot more work after the rest of the ‘door-to-doors’ had been despatched. He said the delay had been as a result of the original batch being destroyed because they had images containing Lego characters, and Lego didn’t want their product to be associated with politics. Anyone know if this is true?

  253. Neil Anderson says:

    Cameron says the debate is for Scottish People and so won’t face Salmond. So why is he wasting our money repeating ther same old lies and tosh that failed so dismally for project fear. I reckon it’s Cameron that’s feart. He’s a big feartie – so he is! and a terrible liar! I know there is an emoticon knocking around for sticking your tongue out but I havn’ae got it so Cameron … I’m sending you a virtual wedgie!

  254. Neil Anderson says:

    BTW Sunshine on Crieff – yes the Lego story is true – it even made the news lasy week when they were printing these.

  255. Alexandra says:

    Did they get their shopping from the local food bank?

  256. you are not fooling me says:

    Wow! This just came in my post today and my initial thought was: is this a freaking joke???

    I would understand if “The Government” sent me an actual informative leaflet weighing pros and cons of both sides of the debate, not just a bunch of heavily biased opinions and plain lies. Blatantly their intention wasn’t to inform me, but to trick me into voting NO. Am I gonna receive a government issued leaflet promoting the independence too? No, I didn’t think so…

    To be honest I didn’t even realize they can do that, both YES and NO have their own campaigns already, so why are they even getting involved, and more so why only promoting staying together? The most obvious answer comes to mind – clearly there’s something in it for them!

    Well, dear HM Government, newsflash – I’ll be voting to choose an option that will benefit us Scottish citizens, not you and few of your filthy rich friends! So if this leaflet supposed to have any impact on my decision, well, it only made me even more sure that voting YES is the right thing to do.

    I suppose if you think about it, this might be a good sign – since they are resorting to such crude, in-your-face propaganda it means they must feel threatened, probably because the scales are tipping heavily towards the YES side 🙂

    PS: I’m glad the NO campaign changed their slogan, now it works perfectly as an answer to their BS: Better together? No thanks! ;P
    GO SCOTLAND!!!



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