Chinese PM speaks out for Union
Posted on
June 18, 2014 by
Rev. Stuart Campbell
The 25th anniversary of the massacre was just two weeks ago, and little has changed about China’s attitude to dissent since then, but when you’re desperate pretty much any celebrity endorsement will do.
Next week, we’re expecting the media to excitedly report backing for a No vote from Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Kim Jong-Un and the daughter of Pol Pot – presented, of course, for the salivating Scottish media as an “ordinary mum from Bishopbriggs”. But the reality will probably be something even madder.
If I had been better with technology I would have captioned a picture of the Chinese premier and Cameron with the Chinese guy saying “just send the tanks in and jail the cybernats! We did and nobody did anything!”
Ooh, I like the inclusion of the Print button.
Looks like George Square, 1919.
Some team up with mega rich capitalist standing on podium next to a smirky David Cameron. Wonder how much more of teamGB Cammners flogged them for next to nothing?
I loved the note that says “Unless the Chines PM meets the Queen, he isnt coming”. Cue a reception.
Dance bitch (Westminster not Betty), dance!
If Cameron was providing the sort of growth rate China has he would have no problem.
Of course he could, if the ruling class in Westminster were not crap.
But then the SNP could have done so in Scotland if they weren’t completer crap. Each is the best argument for the other.
Fast growth with UKIP is the best argument against both.
Love it.
The Chinese authorities aren’t too keen on rre and fair referendums, elections and stuff like that. So it shouldn’t surprise anyone outside of the British mainstream news media that the rulers of the anti-democratic Chinese state and authors of the Tienanmen Square Massacre are endorsing the war criminal UK state.
Still, it would be lovely to find out what the actual Chinese public think about Scottish independence. Alas, alack though, the UK-loving despots that rule over them aren’t interested in finding out what they think. In fact, their government will send in the tanks if they even dare to try to express their opinions in public.
Did any of these world leaders have anything to say about Czechoslovakia’s velvet divorce? I did a search and couldnae find any.
Yawn……
Another world leader telling me how to vote in the only election I’ll ever make a real difference in.
David Cameron must be doing more capitulation to these people as UK PM, than he ever did to his elder classmates at Eton.
He says he won’t get involved and it’s a decision for the Scottish people.
He pushes for support from leaders all over the world, but he doesn’t have the scrotum content to talk to the democratically elected leader of Scotland.
Numpty!
You see folks, holding ‘Tory values’ does not make me one of them. 😉
Neil Craig,
Why don’t you pop over to the ‘Britain First’ website where i’m sure your UKIP P**h will fine a warm welcome.
The Scottish media’s attitude to China can be summed up as the following:
Alex Salmond visiting China = apologist for human rights abuses, what about Tibet, out of his depth etc etc
Chinese premier speaks up for union = vital trading partner, who needs human rights, Scotland is insignificant without the UK etc etc
Has Jesus come out for No, yet? I’m always the last to know when he gets opinions about stuff.
do i smell kippers you know how hard it is to get rid of that stench ,who`s got the fabreeze?
Can we be sure he actually said what was reported you know they will lie about anything if it suits their purpose.
@Craig
Majority of UKIP voters in Scotland trust Holyrood over Westmister with up to 1/4 planning to voting for independence.
With the SNP likely the largest party initially post independence seems like a reasonable thumbs up to me!
As the Chinese government scour the globe looking to buy non-Chinese assets it makes perfect sense for them to speak up for asset-stripping and rent-seeking Tories here in the UK.
The bigger question is maybe what concessions the UK have given the Chinese.
I love the Better Together quote at the bottom of the story. It seems that they will co-opt anyone to bolster their flagging arguments even if
1) That individual is against any form of democratic self determination as in the Chinese PM
2) Absolutely did not endorse their position as in the Pope
3) Couldn’t give a toss as in Obama
I’m just waiting for someone to claim that Maggie has spoken from the dead to say it’s all a bad idea.
Neil Craig
Can you tell us who the uk would ally with once UKIP have managed to suck it out of Europe? Will we still be picking up George washington’s coat tails or playing with ourselves in splendid isolation. Or maybe you envisage a return to empire and we can pull the Australians, New Zealanders and Canadians back into line? Perhaps after Cameron prostituting himself we could bend over for China? Put the great back in the United Kingdom again?
I asked one of your ukippers the other day what he meant by Britishness. He told me cream teas, the pound and driving on the right. Now I might be old fashioned but Cyprus drives on the right so it’s not particularly British thing to do and cream teas were never part of my experience growing up in Scotland so very little to do with my experience of Britishness.
You can tell I have no patience today with cybernaws, particularly when they don’t have a clue.
An old (trade) union friend who spent several years in the FCO once told me senior diplomats had a kind of tariff of charges or ready reckoner for every public utterance made by the UK government. I remember thinking about that when Blair was proclaiming all that shoulder-to-shoulder stuff closely followed by the bellicose rhetoric and, eventually, the invasion of Iraq.
I’m sure Li’s statement had its price. Don’t expect any robust statements on Tibet any time soon.
Murray
I think the Chinese are getting a bite out of the new nuclear power stations and HS2 contracts.
I’m not sure how good the Chinese nuclear power stations are though.
No Tanks!
I am no longer shocked by Cameron’s crazy friends and how seemingly easy they are to try to shut us up!
Not working anymore…
O/T This is how you spell Campbeltown Mr Craig. 😉
BREAKING NEWS….
In a joint communique from the grave, Joseph Stalin, Ghengis Khan & Nicolae Ceausescu have recommended that Scots vote NO in September’s referendum.
Speaking on behalf of the group, ‘Uncle Joe’ added “why are unionists even allowing this vote to take place? It’s nothing but treachery by these so-called freedom lovers. Firing squads for all of them I say. Or at least 30 years in the gulag…”
So now we’ve had Putin and all Russia, Obama and all USA, Danny Alexander, Dougie Alexander, Willie Rennie, Ming the Magnificent, JKR, Colin Montgomerie, Texas whatever, The eminent peace-envoy-money maker Blair, Mrs Clinton and Bill and many others of lesser note even than Willie Rennie, plus now, the latest biggie – Mr Chinese heid-bummer and all of China, not to forget the mis-quoted and heavily redacted quote from the Pope, who all seek to tell us – that is, the whole of us 5,313,600 Scottish residents, as of mid-2013, that we’re much, much better sticking together with the good old UK.
Well that’s that, then – we better listen to these good well meaning, Scots loving – proud Scots loving even, folk.
Or – maybe not! NO THANKS – and YES please!
I’d imagine that there is nothing that the SNP could do that Neil Craig would be impressed with.
As far as I am concerned, the SNP are light years ahead of anything that Westminster has done for us.
@Chic McGregor
Hahaha bravo!
The Rev wll be kicking himself for missing that headline!
With every public utterance, more and more Scots are starting to think
“Haud oan a wee minute, we must actually be important if aw these peepul keep begging us to stay. Maybe ah should look into this a bit mair!”
Which is nice!
PS Barontorc – Eddie Izzard just started crying on David Bowies shoulder and doesnt know why!
Old Chinese proverb.
Porridge is OK, but 20 minutes later you feel like another one.
Anyway, Cameron is on the Wong side of the Border.
First thing that came to mind when I heard that Cameron was meeting the Chinese! I’m sure China is well versed in Scottish politics……..no?
David Cameron must be getting housewife’s knee considering how much grovelling he must be having to do to get even the most lukewarm statement from all these people.
Do you think we are doing something to upset him?
With the lazer beam approaching ever closer to his crotch, 007 says, “Do you exshpect me to talk?”
Replying in a freakishly high pitched tone….
“No Mr. Bond, I expect you to say NO.”
China has a lot of people within its empire who would rather have self determination, not least Tibet. The world is full of such situations, Catalonia, Kurds in Turkey etc etc. The US will have concerns about the disintegration of the UK as a ‘partner in crime’. It shouldn’t be a surprise that some leaders would prefer to keep the UK intact.
The fact that we are on a quest for a fairer, more democratic, and more just society is irrelevant when these people have in their minds ‘greater issues’.
Bottom line is, has all this negativity towards Scotland reduced the trend towards support for Yes? No evidence it has!
I think I’d even go further – how much of the negativity has helped the Yes cause? I reckon most of it! The harder BT try, the more they get it wrong.
Oooooo look, shiny new nuclear power stations stamped with ‘made in China’… errrm.. #nothanks
Quick piccie tweek.
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f390/chicmac/NoTanks.jpg
Wonder how the 40 million plus inmates in China’s Concentration Camps would vote? Would they vote for their freedom, or stay better together in the Soviet Style Gulags?
Stephen
No Campaign take a tanking.
There is a rumour sweeping parliament that Cameron can speak in Chinese whispers. Dave is going to rest his kneecaps for a couple of days to allow his repetitive strain injury to recover, before returning to the grovelling position.
“It’s worth it for all that oil money, he quipped” especially now that you see the price of a barrel. We have the poor, stupid feart jocks where we want them.
I may have mentioned Slavoj Zizek and Capitalism with Asian values. 😉
http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/talktojazeera/2011/10/2011102813360731764.html
Gerry Hassan in the Herald today puts it all in context, including our very own democratic deficit ie within the confines of Scotland.
http://www.heraldscotland.com/comment/columnists/what-were-talking-about-is-voice-in-its-deepest-sense-becoming-a-people.24458766
“Scotland, on the other hand, likes to imagine and see itself differently – as democratic, disputatious, argumentative, less hierarchical and deferential. Yet, Scotland now is not and never has been a democracy. For most of its history it has been shaped by powerful institutions, its own establishment and elite opinion.”
And the vehicle for elitist opinion is – yes you’ve guessed it – the media.
Neil Mackenzie says:
Neil, God has not declared yet, but now and then he sends a signal, as I was going home from Dunoon on a sunny day, there was a very big saltire in the blue sky.
Caused of course by jet engines, but I have seen it in France and other places, maybe god is trying to tell us something!
After all I have never seen a Union Jack up there!
God comes out for YES Campaign:
http://www.scottcreighton.co.uk/indyref/images/SaltireSky.JPG
Already knew that Cameron has been making some like-minded friends over there.
Back when he was working on ways to restrict internet access in the UK, he was bringing in technical experts from the same company who used to operate what was nicknamed the “Great Firewall of China”, a system that restricted every citizen’s internet access, preventing them reaching sites that the government didn’t want them seeing. (Times like this when operations like the Tor Network proves their worth!)
I bet that got quite a lot of wannabe dictators like Cameron salivating and going “ooo, I want some of that over here! First site on the blacklist is that Wings over Scotland that keeps ruining all my propaganda!”
So many world leaders who publically condemned such totalitarian suppression of information and open ‘police state’ style brutality while secretly wishing they’d thought of doing it first.
Gives us a little glimpse at what’s in store for us if there’s a No vote…
o/t
Well done Rory! Respect to you!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/golf/27906964
‘They’ won’t like that one little bit!
Bastions of the Empire are still crumbling, one by one…
Next please …form a queue!
Chic McGregor says:
Chic, you are kinda good at the imaging stuff, I have been collecting ones that I liked from all over. Lots of them are gagging for a NO THANKS on them.
Probably you have plenty but out of what I have I am sure some would make some people think.
There is in total around 300-350 of them.
If you feel you could do something worthwhile with them, I would be happy to send you the folder. I would need a contact email however you would like to do it.
Watch out for Ian Taylor calling in some favours from his old chums in Eastern Europe.
Nothing like a diversion to keep our MSM engaged!
@YouandMyComb
I don’t fancy the supply lines needed to keep uppity Australasians in line. The NZ armed forces are trained to ‘go bush’ in the event of invasion. You may take the cities but good look travelling between them.
I reckon the Ockers over the ditch might put up a bit of a fight too, if the buggers can drag themselves away from the tinnies and the barbie that is.
Were there any YES friendly folk at the latest Bilderberg meeting?
I’m going to quote an old TV show in response to this:
Hero: I’ve had a lot of people talking at me the last few days. Everyone just lining up to tell me how unimportant I am. And I’ve finally figured out why. Power. I have it. They don’t. This bothers them.
I think that sums up what’s going on rather well.
You have to laugh, yesterday Mr Li Keqiang backed the union, naysayers went wild, he was the man, he was the chosen one and if he said no independence for Scotland then it must be taken as gospel and we should all bow down and vote no.
Today after his newspaper says Britain is a declining empire with little to offer China, he and China are all the bastards under the sun, and of course he doesn’t have a clue what he is talking about now and should be ignored.
Seems billion pound contracts can buy you friends but not loyal friends.
Neil Craig
rab_the_doubter
scottish_skier
You and My Comb
The elephant in the room that none of the MSM covered regarding the UKIP vote in Scotland at the United States of Europe election: many Scottish Nationals voted UKIP.
Now before you all start blowing a fuse and frothing at the mouth, calm down and have a cup of tea. The clue is in its name “Independence”.
The EU is not the common market. It is not a trade agreement organisation it is a project to create a United Sates of Europe where there will be a Europe of REGIONS not sovereign countries. Look at the people of Greece and Spain – what sovereignty do they have within the EU? The EU demands that their social programmes and pensions are cut so that the Bankers get their money every time.
The EU directives have now reached 150,000 pages in number. Every directive taking a little bit of sovereignty away from the nation states.
Scotland’s own democratically elected parliament passed an act on minimum pricing of alcohol to try and protect our people….but we have to wait for around two years to see if the EU will let us do this? Do you call that democracy?
The commissioners that initiate ALL the EU legislation are not elected. They cannot be unelected by the people.
Whenever the people are asked, do they want this EU super state they vote NO. But then the EU does not like that answer and keeps running repeat referendums until it gets the answer it wants as in Ireland (with lots of threats in between). It proved to be too much effort for them and it was easier just not give anyone else a vote.
The EU accounts have not been Audited for 18 years!
The SNP position of we want to take back sovereignty from Westminster but happy to keep giving it straight back to Brussels is duplicitous.
Switzerland, Norway and even wee Iceland up there in the middle of the Alantic, with the population of Edinburgh, Know this. But then they are Independent Countries.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dranqFntNgo
Does this mean Wee Willie Rennie will stop complaining about Salmond allegedly snubbing the Dali Lama?
I never figured the British establishment for being a bunch of Chinese Tankies to be honest.
Better Together-Chinese Government checklist on Wikipedia –
List of Chinese dissidents
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Chinese_dissidents
2 Chinese Government blacklist
2.1 To be arrested on entry to China
2.2 To be refused re-entry to China
2.3 To be dealt with “according to circumstances of the situation”
Cameron calling for intervention in Iraq. These clowns will never learn…
http://news.sky.com/story/1284490/pm-warns-iraq-terrorists-will-hit-uk-at-home
“Syrian hackers attack websites of The Sun and Sunday Times”
This will be you next Rev, with the excuse of “it wasn’t us it was the Syrians”.
As Cameron once again prostitutes himself on the world stage, one had to ask, who’s pimping the PM?
Les
Why not create a photobucket album on line, then we can all have a look. I’m always looking for good ones for the Kirrie AYE TV window loop. Working on a few at the moment.
Apart from giving Wings, others, and me great opportunities to mock the ‘No Thanks to Better Together’ campaign, I fail to see how these ‘SLEB’ endorsements will help it. Bearing in mind how thrawn we can be I am sure they are more likely to lead more Scots to vote YES.
yabadabadoo
Are you saying youre happy for Scotland to go Independent after David Camerons referendum and EU withdrawal?
Nana Smith says:
Nana, we now know why Obama spoke about Indy!
” O’Bama – Cameron, ” Ok I will do it, but you will remember when Blair backed Bush over Iraq, well you would need to say this…… in return, Cameron- ” It’s a deal!”
a supporter
The one on Twitter the other night that said
“If you live in the borders and your kid kicks a ball over the garden fence, then you will need a visa to get it back”
was so good I actually assumed it was real!
It was followed by the equally hilarious and poetic…
“If a tree falls in a forest does it make a sound?. There will be no trees. No Forests and no hearing aids for pensioners”
Chic McGregor says:
Not sure how to do that, do I just go to photobucket.com and take it from there? or ?
This seems to be a pattern emerging.
World leader/senior politician speaks out against Scottish independence, with David Cameron, trying not to look smug, always lurking in the background.
I just hope he is not making too many promises and offering giveaways, just to secure a NO vote. Silly man.
@Nana Smith
ISIS must have found some of these Weapons of Mass Destruction that can hit the UK in 45 minutes.
They must have been hidden in the North of Iraq all along!
@ Chic
Here’s one for you, Chic (my own photo taken earlier this week):
http://www.scottcreighton.co.uk/indyref/images/god-says-yes.jpg
Ah, now I see..I was wondering “What could UK have that China would appreciate….”
Its The Money laundering, I mean making City of course…by the way, do not have a drink in your hand when you read the words “ambitious for reform” below
Chancellor George Osborne has welcomed a Pound-Yuan Interbank Market between the two countries, stating that it will help Britain build further links with China, by getting its “currency used and traded in London”.
Mr Osborne said that both the UK and China have made “huge steps forward” in building progress, saying that the future belongs to those “ambitious for reform.”
In a speech at Lancaster House in London, Mr Osborne said: “I believe the emergence of the Chinese currency as one of the world’s leading currencies will be the next huge change in global finance.
“Quite bluntly, I want the City of London to facilitate that change and to be central to it,” he said
“Seasick Dave says:
I’d imagine that there is nothing that the SNP could do that Neil Craig would be impressed with.
As far as I am concerned, the SNP are light years ahead of anything that Westminster has done for us.”
Seems like its light years ahead but in actual fact all the SNP are doing is giving us what we need, it’s amazing what difference it makes.
Rev, I’m voting no unless you promise to make another Sensible Soccer.
Does anyone else remember the Unionist parties criticising the FM for supposedly “pandering” to China? Indeed a Scotsman article from the time states:
“Jenny Marra, the Labour MSP, said: “As if further evidence was needed, this shows that Alex Salmond did everything the Chinese wanted him to do to distance himself from the Dalai Lama.
“The First Minister should have proven his diplomatic mettle by voicing his concerns about human rights abuses in China and affording a proper welcome to the Dalai Lama, an international ambassador for peace.”
I wonder if Miss Marra will now be so vocal in condemning the UK Government/Cameron for accepting the backing of China and for not raising the issue of Human Rights.
That strange noise you so often hear on Radio Scotland & BBC TV Scotland is not static reception caused by adverse broadcasting weather conditions.
It is Better Together’s desperate scraping of the very last faint traces of propaganda and lies from the bottoms of several rather large, but now very empty, barrels.
Who knew a too small, poor, stupid Scotland could attract so much vote no attention from across the world. That at least is the BetterTogetherBBC etc anti independence attack but what’s realy caught all this attention? England losing such a large slice of their turf, how they’ll deal with it on the world stage merely as England should be interesting viewing for all concerned.
Rule Britannia doesn’t really work now and it’s going to look ridiculous from the 19th September 2014. Nothing’s for ever teamGEnglandB and the Union Jack will soon be coming down flag poles across Scotland for the last time.
Chic,
got it seems easy, so I will do.
Thanks
@ You and my Comb at 12:45
I asked one of your ukippers the other day what he meant by Britishness. He told me cream teas, the pound and driving on the right. Now I might be old fashioned but Cyprus drives on the right so it’s not particularly British thing to do …
Did the ukipper mean “driving on the left?” Maybe he is so obsessed with the right that there’s nothing left in his brain, if there ever was one rational thought there to begin with.
By Scottish Nationals are you referring to SNP members, or people in Scotland? Because 10% of the vote doesn’t exactly scream “many” to me. Much play was made of London rejecting UKIP with 17% of the vote: how is UKIP having not only a smaller percentage of the vote in Scotland, but a wider gap compared to the rest of the UK from last election gap, conducive to suggesting UKIP now representing “many” Scottish Nationals?
Compared to what, being rejected out of hand without so much as a parliamentary debate like countless proposals from Holyrood to Westminster? I agree that the EU is deeply flawed and am very concerned by the rise of far-right groups within the parliament, but currently Scotland has ZERO influence on EU policy by virtue of the fact it is not a member state: the UK is. And given only 6 of the 73 MEPs are Scottish, how influential do you think they’d be?
Greece and Spain are in the mess they’re in because of their own idiotic financial and political decisions, NOT because of the EU – much like the UK, as a matter of fact.
It’s only duplicitous if you think the sovereignty ceded to Brussels is remotely comparable to sovereignty ceded to Westminster, either in terms of degree or reciprocity. Does Brussels have even a fraction of the power over its constituent states that Westminster exerts over Scotland – broadcasting, oil revenue, taxes, trade, industry, energy, welfare, national security?
Oil price expected to reach $147 say EBC news
How much does that help the tax take on North Sea income?
China signs £14bn trade deals with UK amid Premier’s visit
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-27882954
I was in China last year, just me and the wife, not in a group. We could access any western site on the net that we wished to visit, wings, bella, munguins etc etc never came across any restrictions. We met lots of Chinese people fascinated by where we came from, they could and did access the same sites as us. We travelled about 6,000 miles in China, boat ,plane,bus,bike,train. Ive never met such charming,cheery,helpful, pleasant people in any other country in my life. Its not a utopia, they are moving on unlike the UK they make us look like we are living in the stone age, In one weekend they opened seven high speed rail lines. Beijing to Shanghai one hundred trains fifty each way every day. just over four hours at 300 kph. Hs2 a piddly little toy train
You’re having a laugh, Stu – I mean, that’s actually a genuine Better Together campaign poster? Seriously, they’ve actually sunk that low? C’mon, man, really?
Perhaps something should be said about how the deal signed with the Chinese puts the UK’s financial independence in question. It may be just another soft power move by the Chinese government that uses money not military threats. Here they have not even really spent any money. Just promised to funnel their cash through the City of London.
In the last year and a half London has slipped well behind New York and is barely level pegging with reional financial centres in the Far East. Yet the news papers here keep saying its THE centre of international finance. Its just NOT true. We seem to think all the lies concern the referendum but the UK seems to float along on lies. It’s like that scene from “The King and I” when the teacher tries to educate the children on the real size of Thialand compared to the world.
When we were growing up,under the threat of nasty one party state communism and their nuclear weapons,who would have thought that the uk would crawl to a repressive one party communist state with a dodgy human rights record and nuclear weapons to beg for mere words of support. Who’s next I wonder? They’ve already begged Mr Obama,Mr Putin,now Mr Li Keqiang (hope the spelling is correct),amongst others.
Confucius say: Vote Yes.
Watched with astonishment as the PM and red Tory leader, Ed Miliband politely discussed what the PM needs to tell all of the countries surrounding Iraq, and what the UK should tell Iraq, during PMQ’s. Their is, of course (as the propoagandist BBC’s Andrew Neil put it) a ‘cross party consensus’ on Iraq, so no difficult questions of either side were asked.
These clowns in Westminster just still do not get it, they glibly think the world and it’s people sit on the edge of their seats looking for advice from London, like in the ‘good old days’ of empire. The UK is no longer important in the world, yet the inhabitants of Westminster delude themselves day in, day out, blandly asserting and indulging in grandiose pontification about what needs to happen around the world.
Coming soon to a squaddie (reservist) near you, ‘IRAQ 2.0’
The sooner Scotland is free from these delusional AND dangerous clowns in Westminster, and their ‘rule brittania’ hubris, the better.
Does that mean we can have Richard Gere on the YES side
Look, a hamster!
@Thomas Valentine
“London, which dominates world foreign exchange trading, is the biggest offshore centre for renminbi payments. Outside China and Hong Kong, two in three payments take place in London, the UK Treasury said.”
Are you saying the treasury is lying, no I don’t believe you, they couldn’t do that.
I don’t know if anyone caught the meeting yesterday between the British and Chinese delegation. Some UK minister brought up the subject of the Chinese non elected politboro (congress). To which the Chinese responded
“Don’t lecture to us about non-elected chambers when you (the UK) has one of the biggest non elected chambers in the world the House of Lords”
or words to that effect.
Iraq again. And again, it’s only about the oil. Can’t have an all shortage as that would increase the world oil price and make indy economics even better than they are at present.
Cammy–if you are thinking of another wee invasion of Iraq then NOT IN MT NAME.
The sooner we rid ourselves of these imperialists, the better.
Diplomatic bingo anyone? They’ve approached Putin, Obama and Li Kequiang. Who’s next?
And haven’t they kind of driven a bus through the spirit and letter of no outside intervention?
Seems to me they don’t feel up to taking on the Scottish electorate by themselves.
Ooooh if only France’s President Hollande would please come out on the No side!
That seemed to be the not to subtle message/wish of wee Glenn Campbell on GMS this morning, saying the leaders of all the UN Security Council permanent members had commented, except *sigh* France.
Anyone want to place a bet on how long it’ll be before wee Glenn is scraping about Paris trying to get (and distort) any quotes he can get his hands on?
Gulf War III … Not in my name. Just one reason among many for voting Yes.
I find it particularly galling that the Chinese Minister, should come out, and say he wants a united, United Kingdom, when democracy in China is non existent. I also find it utterly pathetic of David Cameron, to scurry around the world, trying to drum up support against Scottish independence.
Sky News there shows NEWS ALERT on screen, then we switch to 2 men at Nr 10 Downing Street with headline
Cameron Meets Estonian Counterpart
Dave probably thought he was having lunch with an old Etonian..cant wait to hear The Estonian leader say “Scotland, stay under the control of that big neighbour!” next
Yabadabadoo
It does seem unlikely, given that the SNP vote held up and UKIP gained 10% of a low turnout that any significant numbers voted UKIP.
However, I am aware that there are serious democratic issues within the functioning of the EU not least being out Scottish MEPs playing games in the EU parliament to confuse the voters
As for Switzerland and Norway being independent, they both have EFTA status.this entitles them to implement EU regulations without having a say in their creation. I was in Norway last year and they were being threatened by the EU over their failure to comply with some regulations which escape my memory now. ?e have just seen Swiss bring banned from participation in the Erasmus programme due to their recent referendum restricting freedom of movement in European countries.
A question I have for the anti EU campaign is: are there any countries in the world (apart, possibly, from North Korea – and even they are an Olympic and FIFA member) that is not part of an economic or defence alliance?
@Dr JM Mackintosh
Camerons warning “Terrorists will hit UK at home”
My friend has told me her husband said he wouldn’t put it past Westminster to do ‘something’ in Scotland and blame it on terrorists. What a distraction from the refernendum.
Good grief would they do such a thing…
test
But the reality will probably be something even madder.
So who’s left?
Well, I’m expecting word from Lucifer, Beelzebub, Mephistopheles, etc. I’m sure if they were to ask the Prince of Darkness (no, not Satan), but Peter Mandelson, then I’m sure he can get in contact with Lucifer and co.
On top that, he might dig out the Ouija board and summon some statements from Edward Longshanks, James Douglas, 3rd Marquess of Queensberry (1707), Margaret Thatcher …and probably even Hitler too since he liked unifying things also!
ach im not worried anyway i imagine the Chinese delegation are laughing their socks off at them in reality and its all a secret ploy to buy up market share from the wests economy to take down the dollar ,i wonder what the Americans think about it ,i imagine they will not be to pleased.
And anyway if the Chinese like you they give you pandas 🙂
@desimond
They will stop the old “This one says don’t do it” routine soon, even they know it is now just comical.
As I have said often. They will do what they have to, to keep control of Scotland’s wealth. They will do anything to protect their state, anything. They have much form, just read your history books.
Andy-B
Knowing the Chinese as I do and the circumstance regarding the press conference
It should be noted that it was a Chinese speaking BBC journalist that asked the question about Scottish Independence.
To be polite, as is the Chinese way (and the Chinese speaking BBC journalist would have known this) the Chinese Premier stated that he would of course like to see the UK remain united, in direct answer to the question.
But it is important to remember that the Chinese premier was being polite to his guest standing next to him. He did add that any decision would be entirely down to the Scottish people. This bit is down played by the British MSM.
Realistically the Chinese couldn’t care less as long as they get their nice bottle of Johnny Walker Blue Label, they are happy
@ Nana Smith
If the UK perpetrated a false flag terrorist event in Scotland it would result only in even more people voting YES. As part of the UK we are a target for the terrorists. Upon independence, Scotland will be much, much less of a target as we are no longer part of the UK imperialist warmonging machine.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jun/18/britain-old-declining-empire-official-chinese-newspaper
What the Chinese really think of waste oyster rule Britannia. Ouch. At least they are not subjected to the likes of Beaker and Fozzie bear endless strength power clout safeness waffle.
Tibet sold out to keep Scotland’s wealth?
There is no principle or low too vile for unionists
@ Proud Cybernat
Yes, that’s what I was thinking – it would only show up how useless the UK was at protecting us. I hope they are not stupid enough to try such a thing.
Of course, the Chinese leader said that completely without any prompting from Dave, didn’t he? Aye, right, this will clearly have had something to do with it.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-27882954
“So, Mr Li, now that the ink is drying on billions of pounds worth on this trading agreement, how about you do a tiny little favour for me regarding our troublesome northern colony?”
Definition of lost?
UKIP supporters looking for kindred spirits on this page. Give over lads; you are dealing with politically informed people here. Your attempts at gaining more support for your one trick pony are wasted here.
As to your picture Rev, the very use of tanks on the battlefield of the Somme brought home a truth that remains: you can take ground with tanks but by themselves you cannot hold it with them (they are too easily bypassed and vulnerable to infantry). This is in reality a specialised version of the same truth about cavalry, the Mongols notwithstanding (they failed in Europe partly because the environment cannot support horse only armies).
Tanks need resupply, a base where their crews can rest etc and are vulnerable to small fast moving infantry units at those and other times. Otherwise they can be bypassed. Israel has tanks yet they have built a high concrete wall with electronic detectors, watchtowers and patrols.
They have tanks? pah!
Nana Smith
If the Yes side look to be in with a good chance in the
final stages of “the game” , be assured the Westminster Tory elite and the “state apparatus” are capable of absolutely anything to ” win the day”.Whatever “event” they plan will of course be front page news and BBC “LEAD STORY”.If an “electoral shock” is necessary , be assured it will be forthcoming.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/china/10909135/China-tabloid-attack-hints-at-Beijing-attitude-towards-declining-Britain.html
The above link, shows exactly what China thinks of Great Britain and it doesn’t make pretty reading.
@Nana Smith.
Yes, I truly believe they would and I fully expect them too, I regret to say.
So is China so reprehensible that an independent Scotland cut off all trading links with it?
Alex Salmond urged to meet Dalai Lama
The first minister has been accused of pandering to “Chinese government diktat” by failing to meet with the Dalai Lama during his UK visit.
Scottish Liberal Democrat leader Willie Rennie said Alex Salmond should meet the Tibetan spiritual leader.
Mr Rennie challenged the first minister to “stand up for what’s important” despite Chinese “sensitivities”.
Come on Wullie, get on the phone to Dave.
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-18469935
@Edward.
If that is indeed the case, in my opinion, it would have been more prudent of the Chinese Minister, to have said nothing at all about, Scottish Independence. Though I do take your point, regarding, the Chinese custom, of politeness.
Electoral shock. That worries me too, the way things are going. If one side or the other was well ahead they might just leave it as being either pointless or unnecessary, but with the polls so close I wouldn’t be surprised if they try something.
I have no idea what they might try, mind you. Something that wouldn’t be an obvious false flag, that’s for sure.
@Nana
If you haven’t seen it already google Diomhair on Youtube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQdkyggLrsc
Worth watching.
Well, as Dave has just about covered all the big-time world leaders, next up surely has to be a vision.
Anyone up for seeing Moses at the foot of their bed?
False flag stuff. It would have to be an absolute last line of defence for them, because if they were at all suspected of it being false flag the backlash would loose it for them for sure. My feeling, despite historical form, that will be a tactic too far, a risk too far.
Though, if they detect a significant shift to Yes, then they might take greater risks.
My guess it will be another three months of chip chip negativity trying to keep NOs onside and stop DKs going Yes. They do have BtBC and MSM to ignore pro Indy stories and milk anti Indy stories. Against that we have grassroots. All revolutions are grassroots versus the establishment and the State machine. Let’s hope our revolution stays as ‘words’ rather than ‘actions’!
IMO, the Anglo-American establishment ensured Mao gained power, so that China would develop as another ‘hobbled’ centrally planned economy, unable to innovate or generate finance from within. Another workshop come aid dependent. I don’t think the western elites had figured on a ‘family planning’ policy that Bill Gates could only dream of. But, of course, Scotland has a demographic time-bomb.
http://www.madhedgefundtrader.com/an-evening-with-the-chinese-intelligence-service-2/
http://www.bloomberg.com/video/china-shift-hopes-to-diffuse-demographic-time-bomb-NqztoyUgTJ67IdGf4nlMlw.html
http://www.bloomberg.com/video/china-to-invest-30b-in-the-u-k-NnvuSY4RRrWEHggv126WzQ.html
Well this plays right into the Chinese claims of the pettiness of Britain. David Cameron is so petty that he tries to get the Chinese involved in an internal dispute so he can get one up on the Yes Campaign. Fantastic job Dave. Be a stereotype, why don’t you?
On a related note, Are the hardcore royalists on the no side aware that Cameron just pimped out the Queen to the Chinese PM, against all protocol, for the sake of this pathetic attempt at one-upmanship? If I was a No side Royalist, I’d be incensed that the Queen is being used in that way.
I’m sure world leaders would have been happy not to be seen to ‘intervene’ and just wait to see how this panned out.
But when asked a question, often posed by the BBC for a UK audience, about the future of the UK, often while on UK soil, and even during a joint press conference with a UK politician would anyone expect anything other than a pro-UK response?
It always seems to be the BBC, and to call any of these responses an ‘intervention’ is absurd.
Can all the favours that Cameron has been dishing out to get these Leaders to provide a soundbite be costed and included in the BT spend?
And another thing – how do we know he said that – is there an original recoding of what he said in Mandarin ( I presume) which can be independently translated?
@Macart
moran taing airson seo [many thanks for this]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQdkyggLrsc
It’s quite likely that, as with the Pope’s “intervention”, he didn’t say what the BBC says he said. We will need a Mandarin speaker to translate for us. Remember Andy Murray’s supposed dislike of Alex Salmond unfurling a Saltire flag at Wimbledon? See Pilar’s blog and scroll half way down for what he really said.
http://pilaraymara.blogspot.co.uk/
Sorry Capella but you need to link to the actual post, not just the blog.
Completely correct the Chinese leader will have been polite so as not to cause “loss of face” to his hosts. Knowing the way the Chinese think I would be almost certain that they will hold Cameron and his so-called Government in contempt for this behaviour ! Chinese people are terrific – not-so their Government but they operate within the same set of mores!
Oops sorry! meant to ask Has Putin come out against our Independence. Have been on holiday and out of touch!
@Les
Mind and let us know when you’ve set up your albums.
Oh and remember to set them to public so we can all see them.
@Proudcybernat
Remember Athelstaneford
I expect their pilot diplomat crew heading for Tehran will have a request for them to voice concern at Scotland’s potential ‘separation’ (Along with plans for how Iraq might best be split into three).
What next?
NESSIE SAYS NO!!
Today at an interview with the Scottish press the Loch Ness Monster voiced concern that an independent Scotland will be over-dependant on tourism which will lead to too many tourists and a threat to monster offspring in the loch.
Bit of back scratching going on. If the Chinese communist party said we should be free, the LabServative media would have a field day, or just not mention it.
You can understand Derek M’s suspicion:
do i smell kippers you know how hard it is to get rid of that stench ,who`s got the fabreeze?
Can we be sure he actually said what was reported you know they will lie about anything if it suits their purpose.
They are awash with lies but this particular quote is true. I watched it on the tele as it happened. It might even have been the BBC..but the commentator certainly remarked on the obtuseness of the wish for the UK to stay united. The obscurity of the Chinese blessing was appropriate. It is nothing t do with them and it will not impact on them at all if Scottish Government proposals carry the day.
The whole point is that it is only the political union that needs to be disturbed. The other 5 unions connecting us with rUK can stay…this is part of the Holyrood proposals. If the rUK want to walk away from them though, they obviously have the right to do that. I hope that they don’t, though it will damage them more than us if they do.
Tom
There is one person whom Cameron has really alienated – Mr Junker, quite likely to be the next president of the European Commission.
If Junker does become president, he could be very favourable to Scotland given how Cameron and the English media have vilified him.
Colin I agree with you that foreign dignitaries telling us who to be part of are neither welcome nor persuasive, even the Blessed President Barry. UKIP feel that way about him telling us we must remain in the EU (though clearly the “Nats” disagree there.
In any case issues should be settled by facts and debate not by the high and mighty telling us to be good. (argument also applies to the CAGW fraud)
Actually if I was a Head of State I’d be a bit concerned about an Independent Scotland –
I’d be expecting all my top diplomats to be applying for a posting there.
Nana Smith 2.41pm
Was actually thinking about this today. Not so sure i don’t agree with your friends husband.
UK and USA governments are corrupt and would do anything to further an agenda.
If, as i believe, rUK relies on Scotland to prop it up, throw in trident issue and oil and they are capable of absolutely anything.
Morag and Nana Smith , ref, Cameron”s warning in the House of Commons/ terrorist threat Cue for M15/MI6 ?? Now WHAT MAJOR SPORTING EVENT IS DUE TO TAKE PLACE IN SCOTLAND SHORTLY? Is the Scottish government “largely” or even” exclusively ” responsible for” SECURITY”? It certainly would be ” an embarrassment” or even ” humiliation” if they had to request assistance from Downing st as regards a major security “SCARE “?? Would it not ?
Will the US government ask Cameron for “air support “or assistance. Is Cameron, preparing the ground for this with his tone today in Parliament and would “air support” from Scotland conveniently be ” on the agenda ” “Better together” then?
@Morag 6.50
Pilar’s blog doesn’t have individual posts. You have to just scroll down half way to get to the quotes re Andy Murray.
http://pilaraymara.blogspot.co.uk
The Press trying to use Andy to slag off Scotland. The Press are so jealous of Andy’s success.
PM ‘A lightweight
‘Scotland a land of invention and discovery’
Will Hong Kong want to return to British Rule? Will the drug dealers want to take it back?
As for Andy Murray’s blind spot on Cameron waving the Union jack and Andy wrapping himself in it, ignoring all the Gorge flags and Butcher’s Apron’s just to attack Alex Salmond, well, his weans can speak British if they want, but we don’t have to listen to him any more than Kermit the frog.
What has he to say about Lords Robertson’s 100 year ruling to cover up the Dunblane massacre? What are his thoughts on his townie Lord wanting to keep us as a nuclear base to further his career? Should we listen to careerists, celebrities and sportsperson whose interests lie elsewhere and who would sell us out for a bike shed in Manchester or strawberries and cream in London?
Andy didn’t say that – read the full quote.
Andy said, he ‘didn’t like the NEGATIVE comments (in the Press) about Alex waving the flag’.
An entirely different meaning. Manipulated by the right wing Press. Judy is close with Alex Salmond. Will his family vote YES?
Stop slagging off Andy Murray, orchestrated by the right wing Press lies.
OK. So what did he say? We need him to speak up. We have to rely on the Goebbels media for that?
We needed a sports person to refuse to be wrapped in the Butcher’s Apron at the Jingoistic London Olympics. America produced two black sportsmen who gave the Black Panther salute and who suffered horribly for it.
Other movements against British rule suffered in blood. We don’t even have to fight for it. All we have to do is vote YES! Have the pampered celebrities the guts for that, while the rest of us suffer?
What he said is in the link above
@Capella 18 June, 2014 at 10.56 pm
He said, ‘he didn’t like the NEGATIVE comments that followed.
He doesn’t have to speak up. He is travelling most of the time, training and playing world class tennis.A true, talented world class sportsman, who inspires and gives pleasure to Millions. An outstanding athlete. Leave him alone.
Plenty of red and White flags flying for football. No negative comments about that in the biased MSM. Hypocrites.
He said a lot more than that and has chosen hi side.
The Old Firm is full of Unionist bams on both sides, encouraged by Labour.
It doesnt really matter what was said there, the politics on the ground between the Scottish and Chinese govts tell a very different story. China has in effect been treating Scotland as an independent nation for several years now and political (and, indeed, personal relationships) between members of the Scottish and Chinese governments have become very close. Much to the consternation of London.
There is a reason Edinburgh got the Pandas and not London.
And from what I have read the Chinese Premier’s comments are being spun into a rather heavier endorsement for the Union than it really was.
I think this more accurately reflects the Chinese position…
http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/866259.shtml
” A rising country should understand the embarrassment of an old declining empire and at times the eccentric acts it takes to hide such embarrassment”
Much of the comment focuses on the hypocrisy of a China (that denies its own citizens a democratic voice) having any say in our own situation.
Valid as that might be I would suggest that to many undecided’s this is less relevant than the risk that an Independent Scotland may loose International standing perceived as being currently held as part of a United Kingdom.
My perspective is coloured by the fact that I have lived in Shanghai for over 10 years, have a registered business here and have been importing and exporting on behalf of UK businesses for over 20 years.
I think most people will understand that Li Keqiang, Obama / Clinton and maybe even the Pope were allowing themselves to be played like a cheap guitar by David Cameron and the UK diplomatic corps but what I would like to lay to bed is the fallacy that they even meant what they said or that it matters in any future arrangements.
First of all Scotland is roughly ¼ of the size of SHANGHAI !!! But before you start thinking that being part of the UK gives us a bigger voice here there are three points to be made. Firstly ten times bugger all is bugger all. Secondly ten times bugger all is bugger all and thirdly ten times bugger all is still bugger all.
Being a small nation however does not necessarily condemn you to no voice at all in China OR the USA and for evidence of that you don’t need to look further than Ireland.
It is arguable that Ireland has gained more International credibility than the UK with state visits by Obama and Xi Jinping (China de facto leader) to Ireland. Type “ Ireland Obama” or “Ireland Xi Jinping” into Google images or youtube and THEN tell me we are Better Together !!
In fact Scotland in China has LESS than no voice. The UK government actively briefs against our interests and it does so in not so subtle ways.
I have been to the last two trade missions that Alex Salmond has attended in China. On both occasions Chinese ministerial representation is as Scotch Mist. Events are hosted by China / Scottish Societies or at the very most second tier local government officials.
Now, lest you think that is at the insistence of the Chinese Governments I can say categorically it is because the BRITISH consulates and Foreign office effectively veto any such encounter lest it conflicts with their own agenda on BRITISH interests.
You may be tempted to think that The UK Government are entitled to scupper an “SNP” First Ministers attempt to make political gain by rubbing shoulders with Chinese ministers but you should also note that no representation from Scotland of ANY political persuasion is afforded any better treatment.
Those who follow these things may remember Jim Murphy trying to upstage Alex Salmond’s long arranged visit to Shanghai Expo in 2010 by arranging a surprise “Scottish Secretary of Sate” visit two weeks earlier. That piece of political posturing came at the expense of ANY sense of identity or clarity that we in the Scottish business community here are entitled to expect.
He met NO ONE but certainly succeeded in baffling an already mystified Chinese business sector as to who Scotland is and who actually represents us. For that alone he should forever be considered a TIT
And so we are left with Mr Cameron to fly oor flag at the top level. Well…. I can tell you that I was at his big Shanghai junket when 500 of the UK’s top businesses descended on China for a couple of days and very good it was too EXCEPT…… I heard ne’er a mention of Scotland there. It was reported that £5.6 billion of deals were signed and if you look at the list I can find no benefit at all for Scotland.
http://www.businesszone.co.uk/topic/deals-done-during-david-camerons-trade-mission-china/54870
Even the banquet I attended served wine but no Whisky. A small but evident omission which probably demonstrates a complete lack of concern for Scotlands biggest export within a UK event.
Jeez, no foreign dignity (tea total or otherwise) can set foot in the Emerald Isle without having a pint of Guinness whapped doon their thrapple.
And while we are back on an Ireland example and, lest you think that small nations need bigger partners to be heard, I can tell you that I was asked to compare the Irish Ball in Shanghai this year.
It is by far the biggest Ball of all nations and this year they surpassed themselves by managing to get the iconic Pearl Tower lit up entirely green.
These things matter more than you think in business and as long as SDI, UKTI et al can hide behind conflicting / overlapping remits Scotland will forever be obscured in the anonymity of being classed as a region.
I repeat Scotland is ¼ the size of Shanghai. Even a small, dedicated focused and Independent voice here would have a huge impact on Scottish business. At the moment we are worse than just silent. We are silenced.
On September the 18th the clue is in the question. “Do you agree that Scotland should be an independent COUNTRY?”
BTW as a footnote. An independent Scotland would give China another voice at the UN to consider. Something that won’t have been missed on them and one we can use to our advantage.
Westminster blocks investment in Scotland