Less Is More
It’s now almost a year and a month since this website announced its cessation as a continuing endeavour, with the “final decision” clause being invoked four months later.
Since Wings confirmed its formal closure as a blog there have nevertheless been 19 posts in eight-and-a-half months, comprising a mixture of polls (the site’s remaining purpose), guest posts, admin, a couple of throwaway joke videos and very occasional one-off, polling-related comment pieces on significant occasions like the SNP marking 15 years in power or Nicola Sturgeon becoming the longest-serving First Minister.
So it’s a little bit startling that it’s still – and by a considerable distance – the world’s most-read Scottish politics site.
(In fact, bigger than the next three put together.)
Admittedly we had something of a flurry of activity in May, with a new Panelbase poll contributing to a whopping total of SIX posts, but SimilarWeb records the past three months of stats so let’s add those all together and see if anything changes.
Nope, still Number One by a clear head.
And lastly just for laughs let’s count average visits per post.
And the combined version:
(No other sites we could think of registered at all on SimilarWeb, which seems to require a minimum of 5000 visits a month, so no Peter A Bell or Talking Up Scotland or Scottish Review. The only Unionist one that met the threshold was ThinkScotland, which would have trailed in in last place slightly below Believe In Scotland.)
So clearly that’s both amusing and depressing. In more than a year, nobody has come close to stepping up and filling the hole left by Wings. Nor have any of the sites which used to regularly attack Wings been able to make any headway once freed of our vile and malign chokehold on Scottish political discourse. Indeed, since the last time we analysed the situation nearly two years ago, they’ve all gone backwards.
And while frankly none of them deserve any better, that’s still not healthy for either the once-much-vaunted “new media” or the indy movement. Coupled with dire turnouts at indy marches and events, it seems Nicola Sturgeon’s mission to destroy the grassroots that she perceives in her paranoia as competition is almost complete. The campaign for independence is now in all meaningful senses the sole property of the SNP. Our goal of training our own replacements by example has failed.
Wings’ webhosting has expired and is due for renewal, but we we’re not seeking funds to pay for it – the costs will be met from the remainder of the Wings Fighting Fund. We’re aiming to downgrade the hosting to save a significant amount of money, but readers shouldn’t notice any difference – despite still being the most popular Scottish politics site, traffic is around 80% lower than it was prior to last May, so like a six-lane motorway at 3am there’s plenty wiggle room to close lanes without affecting speed.
(Incidentally, while counting the other sites’ posts we were struck by a plainly dishonest claim in Paul Kavanagh’s latest appeal for cash on Wee Ginger Dug, in which he said the blog was his “main full time job” while simultaneously asserting that a £5,000 fundraiser from it would provide him with “a sum equivalent to the minimum wage”.
But the UK full-time minimum wage is £17,200 a year, which would mean his self-described “main full time job” was providing a mere 29% of his income, with his “part time side gig” for Newsquest Media Group making up the other 71%. We digress.)
As for ourselves, we’re a few chapters into writing a Wings memoir, so stay tuned for more on that. Because the prospects of circumstances changing to merit any return to the fray in the foreseeable future seem somewhere between remote and zero.
While the lack of alternatives is totally depressing, it is completely unsurprising – there are very good reasons we have chosen to read Wings over the years.
I too share your despondency over the prospects (well lack thereof) of indy and instead have just got on with earning a living, looking after my family and getting the odd round of golf in. I’ve almost entirely switched off from politics and news in general and I think that is a good thing for my mental health.
Having said all that… I still enjoy your sporadic output, and I still want to read Wings as much as you are able and willing to write. When you decided to stop the blog as a full time endeavour you cited a desire not to string indy folk on (like a certain ex canine owner). That’s absolutely fine – don’t milk it.
But, please don’t ever kill the blog! As a reference resource it is second to none and I harbour some long lost hope the topics contained herein may once again become relevant to a national conversation sometime before I die.
Wow & thats by not even trying. It’s no wonder SNP sees you as a threat to their decision making.
The occasional nudge from you goes a long way & makes me smile as I think of Sturgeon’s moans about Wings.You’ve not gone yet despite her threats.
Keep up the good work & looking forward to the book.
Nevertheless, it is good to see you are still there and interested, as Sturgeon has turned a once thriving and diverse community of committed activists into a cesspit of inanity and conflict.
What a deeply sad situation. Wings is still top even though it’s doing nothing says everything about everyone else 🙁
Fantastic , but then you always are!
I like the Less is More strategy – perhaps some of those who appear to be taking over the site with their own incessant rants could learn from that but probably not.
One wee request , could you remove that awful photo from GETTR – the one with the orgasmic lady madonna pic of you know who. Ta!
Congrats on the continued success of the blog.
Pedantically, I’d point out that you can’t just add up the “average visits per post” of all the other sites. To get a true average you would then need to divide by the number of sites (so the difference would be even greater)
“To get a true average you would then need to divide by the number of sites (so the difference would be even greater)”
I cannot fault your pedantry, which is always annoying.
Everything you say is true and so depressing ,but if we all just walk away Sturgeon and her woke Taliban will have won ,we OWE it to the future generations of Scotland to continue the fight, you may NOT ever want to return to Scotland BUT it is your place of birth so surely it would be a dagger through the heart to let sturgeon win
OUR problem has always been doing things individually rather than collectively and sturgeon and the unionists have used that against us , WE need a LEADER to LEAD but also someone who has the GUTS to face the empire and EXPOSE the truth
Where is that someone
I second everything Calum has said above.
Yes the Independence movement is moribund. And yes the SNP has appropriated just about everything we ever achieved. But the fat lady hasn’t sung yet.
Our Yes group is meeting face to face tonight. We never stopped after The Referendum. Corona virus only knocked us down to zoom meetings, but even then we kept them going every week. Now we’re doing face to face once a month. The Dream Shall Never Die.
I was at the recent march and rally in Glasgow. The atmosphere was great, it was terrific to meet some of our fellow Indy supporters once again. I say give it this summer, hopefully without rain on the wrong days, and we might be building up again as a movement before the year’s end.
It’s true that the party machine of the SNP has just about trashed every indy group, turning everything it touches into a subsidiary of the party. But the corollary of that is that we now know who are our friends, who are the real activists, who can be trusted when it comes time to rebuild.
The depressing thoughts I’ve been having recently though concern the party. Eventually many of the membership will just drift away as they realise ‘things are not right’. That might or might not have an effect on the party’s electoral success.
To paraphrase an old saying, there’s only one thing that matters : leadership, leadership, leadership.
Robert says:
9 June, 2022 at 10:58 am
Congrats on the continued success of the blog.
Pedantically, I’d point out that you can’t just add up the “average visits per post” of all the other sites. To get a true average you would then need to divide by the number of sites (so the difference would be even greater)
—
Pedantically, I’ll point out you very much can.
WoS combined average = 84k+ /article
‘Everyone else’s combined average’ = the sum of its parts too.
Rev Stu, I fully understand your decision, and I do respect it. You were the heart of the online campaign in 2014, and many people should be ashamed for not acknowledging the fact.
To get right to the point Rev Stu, Scotland’s sovereignty, the Claim of Right is now pivotal to Scottish Independence. The SSRG is doing so sterling work, and really getting to the heart of the Constitutional argument.
But what it needs is exposure. It needs publicity and a far higher level of awareness that Wings could give it.
You know a lot of the stuff, I recall your Sovereignty for Dummies Article, and some the stuff Sarah Salyers and SALVO is bringing to light is strengthening the case. There is a prenuptial agreement to the Union which essentially says that the Claim of Right was an essential precondition of Union. So if the Claim of Right is ever dismissed, then there is no Union. It’s knowledge the Establishment tried to bury and largely succeeded.
In our sights, realistically, we have to target the next UK General Election as a Plebiscite Election on Independence, and we should running a campaign on that basis right now. The latest a UK General Election can be is Jan 2025, but with the UK in turmoil, an Election could come a lot sooner than that. Maybe even this year. We know fk all is happening through Holyrood. Let’s take it on the chin and just get the job done.
Put the UK into a state of Constitutional crisis, in mortal fear of a General Election, knowing that it has until Jan 2025 to fight for it’s life, because then, at the latest, it’s all over.
Don’t hang up the boots yet Rev Stu. The Claim of Right Argument needs publicity and raised awareness which nobody can deliver like you can.
It doesn’t need to be a huge commitment, but a mind-meld with Sarah Salyers, and a big idea promoted to the masses. Go out in style Rev Stu, not with a memoir, with a Union in a tailspin, Sturgeon cast aside as irrelevant, and every man, woman and child in Scotland fully aware that Scottish Independence is inevitable.
The best way to prevent either Westminster, or Holyrood, taking the initiative, is for us, the sovereign Community of the Realm to take the initiative ourselves, and put an end to this.
I did love the wee bit news you tacked on to the end of the post –
a memoir!
Now that is really something to look forward to but please, Rev Stu, don’t take too long about it. My health’s not too good and I really would like to read your story.
Best wishes to you, sir.
I agree there is nothing in the foreseeable future that would merit your full time return
However between world events, the ongoing Brexit fallout, contents of interdicts becoming widely known, corruption becoming more obvious and even the truly dumb being able to spot the broken promises … I think there will be a sudden & unexpected change of circumstances at some point.
So please stay on standby (as I don’t think there are many people than can fill the hole left by Wings)
Sadly the once shining star of the Scottish independence movement which used to streak across the sky giving us all hope and a reason to struggle on has well and truly been buried by the political movers and thief’s in Westminster aided and abetted by NS.
Still good to read your posts Stu.
May yer lum aiwize reek
My position on indy is the same as Callum’s and yours 🙁
Sturgeon has achieved what Westminster couldn’t. She’s demoralised and effectively killed off the grass roots indy movement and replaced it with nothing. In my opinion she is, at best, a devolutionist and therefore a unionist.
“When you have eliminated all which is impossible, then whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.” ~ Arthur Conan Doyle
Awkward to see you underestimating your value. Most people have quite the opposite vice. I’m one of the silly cunts you serially block but I wouldn’t want to live in a world without you. Saddle up, we need you.
Always good to see an email indicating something new on the blog, although, being a greedy sod, I could be doing with a new post every day. Anyway, for the time being crumbs are better than nothing!
It is indeed deeply depressing and distressing to witness the complete dismantling of hope and action for independence. Thanks for everything you have contributed for Scotland.
@Rev Stuart Campbell
I cannot fault your pedantry, which is always annoying.
Happy to oblige. 😉
It’s worth comparing the alternative media dedicated to Scottish Independence with the burgeoning geo-politics sector particularly since the war of The West vs Rest of the World erupted in Ukraine.
Given the material and the potential audience it’s not a fair comparison by any stretch of the imagination but it is worth noting that a lot of the sites are one person shows.
So, Rev., why don’t you put all that expertise and more importantly experience to good use and try and kindle some alternatives. There has to be a way of combating the mainstream narrative and “getting the truth out there”.
You need to destroy what you created to really be free of it once and for all. So why not get a worthy successor off the ground so you can hand over the crown.
Before today I had 8yrs of being miserable and from today I guess I’ll have another 8yrs of being miserable and then at the end of that 8yrs (2030) I’ll still be miserable because Sturgeon will still be leader of the SNP and we’ll all still be part of the UK. I can’t believe this woman has wasted 8yrs of my life on broken promises and her RAG of a newspapers on false start, I’ve no idea how anyone can honestly say the Rag is for Independence.
All this should tell you that you and WINGS are valued and needed. So should’t disappear or give up new commentary.
With these figures I just don’t understand why you don’t make yourself a living from it. You are well worth a decent salary. There are plenty of people looking for a good read on current affairs on their way to work in the morning.
As AS said the dream will continue. Sturgeon will either pull a rabbit out the hat or fall and we start again.
It was this blog that was the true heart of 2014, not WGD, not any of the other bloggers imho. Not saying thry didnt play backing, but they certainly weren’t the forefront.
WGD’s “diverse blog” incidentally blocks GC women without interaction, as I found out some time ago, so even his
“inclusivity” is in his head.
I loved the run up to 2014, seemed to me we really all were on the same page, more or less. I can no longer stomach the thought of independence with Sturgeon at the helm, who will no doubt be canonised if by some miracle it should go ahead, and by an even greater miracle, be won.
No one can say you didn’t warn them though. The highlight of the decade though, was Hunter and Spear losing their cushy seats.
Thanks for all you have done.
If I could be bothered, it would be easy to count Dug’s true wages, as for Small Mike I again Can’t be Buvvered, to me they don’t exist
In those eyes , there is only the green monster of jealousy
I’ve now wasted 3 minutes on they pair, they now don’t exist
Great that you’re still on the scene. Would like to hear your thoughts next year or the following year on what happens when the planned 2023 referendum disnae happen; could then be the rise of Alba?
Hope you are still around to comment then.
Margaret I would point out that certainly my blog only started in 2020 so it couldn’t have been in the forefront of the campaign in 2014. I have always admired and supported Wings and put considerable worth on the quality of Stu’s journalism abilities. I continue to hope that at some point he will return full time but I fully understand, particularly now when the Independence cause is being destroyed by the SNP, there is no great motivation to do so until the Scottish electorate finally realise they have been getting played for the last six years.
Breeks @ 11:29
Rev Stu, please consider what Breeks has just said: we still need you, and Wings could be pivotal going along the Claim route. Barrhead Boy and Yours for Scotland are excellent but they don’t have your reach, as you so rightly point out.
@ Ian Lawson
Your site Ian, along with Barrheadboy is my first stop of the day, I get to all the Indy bloggers sites through voices.scot which is also a little gem. I never go on to Weegingerdug ever.
OT Another desperate advert for the RSPCA – please remember that we in Scotland have the SSPCA and if you are moved by the plight of animals donate to them.
Really enjoy reading all the posts and the comments are riotous at times. Haste ye back Rev.
Really looking forward to the Wings memoirs.
Totally accept your decisions and wish you all the best – you are the best!
I’d say that people visit this site still because in reality those that support an indy Scotland really don’t have many other options when it comes to visiting indy sites.
Couple this with the years of hard graft and eye opening posts that you spent time and effort on, and its obvious to me at least, that YOU and your blog even though you are retired, are the most important indy site for the majority of Scots.
Is it any wonder then that the Britnat shills continue to post their unionist shite in here under the guise of concerned trolls, the unionist establishment still fears this site.
How reliant on Wings are the other blogs?
I’m thinking of Robin McAlpine. The only way I know about his articles is through Wings.
Re Paul Kavanagh minimum wage. Is he not entitled to unemployment/disability/social security?
I though it was strange that he was relying on such a precarious source of income as a fund-raiser.
Would the research for his articles on WGD not be the same as the articles he writes for the National?
How similar are his articles in the National to those on his blog?
“ they’ve all gone backwards … frankly none of them deserve any better” a remarkably graceless statement if it includes the likes of Yours for Scotland and Barrhead Boy, neither of whose publishers benefit from your training and status as a professional journalist and neither of whom seek financial recompense.
Welcome back Stu. More of the same please.
What I find refreshing is seeing new (to me) posters appearing on this thread. I admit that I came to Wings late and these posters are individuals who probably posted years ago before I ‘found’ the site.
Maybe they never really disappeared but simply refrained from posting as they did not wish to be associated with the romantics, the terminally stupid and the simply misguided dross that have hogged the site for the past year or so.
Who will be the first to place the realists into any of the above categories?
Dorothy Devine says:
9 June, 2022 at 10:54 am
Fantastic , but then you always are!
I like the Less is More strategy – perhaps some of those who appear to be taking over the site with their own incessant rants could learn from that but probably not.
Sadly Dorothy, my suspicion is that Stu couldn’t care less – the headbangers drive up his monthly visits figures from being on here from 5am until 1am under their various alias, and the fact it gives an open goal to his detractors in the media and SNP (“Look children, look! All those mad conspiracy theorists who swarm to him! That’s the sort who believe WoS, now you don’t want to be like that, do you?”) doesn’t seem to bother him that it will make people think twice about even giving his side of the argument a try: such is human nature.
So long as he can go “ha ha ha I’m better than you!” at “Wee Ginger Dug” and the pretend newspaper “Bella Caledonia” he seems happy with that, and shrugs his shoulders that it leaves the site wide open to all manner of neer do wells either trying to damage the site’s credibility or misusing it for purposes of self-advertisement of themselves, their micro hobby parties, conspiracy theories long swatted by universally trusts sources such as Snopes, etc. There’s good reason why even the most basic internet sites keep a tight grip of any comments section.
Jesus tapdancing Christ, the Rangers fanrag The Herald gets holier than thou over the much rumoured but nowt solid “hotel incident” – all but adding chapter and verse – and with oh-so-convenient timing later that same day comes comment posts from contributers no one had heard of before asking about “uh can anyone here tell us something about …” go on, guess what? Rather convenient it all coming at a time Sturgeon
I wrote to Stu last night about the fact since February, a clown called Gregor has been merrily posting whatever idiotic conspiracy theory or junk news tickles his fancy (including links) unfettered over at the Silence Of The Sacrificial Lambs post from 7th February. AntiVax garbage, Secret World Government garbage, you name it, he’s posted it, every night for what is now stretching into five months.
Is it any wonder others have started treating the WoS Comments as their personal blog space – from McGlashin of “Absolutely” rants right down to mindless garbage about Love Island FFS! – and getting all pissy at any others they feel threatened were trying to do the same?
Peerless.They would not engage in argument.Instead they shut you down and declared you persona non grata.Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory is the Scottish curse.
Rev Stuart Campbell.
We understand the external pressure you and yours have gone through over the years, that financially it may not have been so such,
But emotionally with all the threats and strange charges bought against you that you won,
However you are a surviver, and all whom hold your work in high esteem and admiration here are many,
Unrealised probably even by yourself when you first begun, that your site would grow and grow in followers,
It has been one of the most successful and popular leading sites for independence for most of Scotland.
And even now when you may consider numbers have dropped of,
This is not actually true.
There still there in the background reading every day even if they no longer comment,
One of the reasons I suspect for this is like you they have to contend with constant verbal and derogatory abuse from a certain faction on here,
It certainly effects the amount of followers actually commenting.
Some of us are just to stubborn and refuse leave or give in to those vicious snp types trying to destroy the the remaining strength of the yes for independence Scotland.
I feel that they have won when you close your doors , this is why there has been so much pressure placed on you and your site,
They definately wished they had knocked you of your perch sooner,
You have been a leader for us , in independence for Scotland more than you probably even realise yourself,
God bless you.
If one believed Stu couldn’t care less why would one bother to write to him complaining about Gregor posting links on an old article?
It looks like ‘The Unionist Missionaries’ are trying to convince us that they want to save Wings. LOL
This post is both cheering and saddening. Rev, it is great to see that your reach is still there and you are using it. [Who are all those people looking at WGD? I never go there now.]
However the truth you speak about where the independence movement stands is horribly depressing. One person alone stands in the way of action for independence and she is well supported by enough people in the parliamentary groups and party staff to make it impossible to eject her.
For example, how was it possible for the Chief Exec to refuse to hand over the accounting records to the National Treasurer? How come he wasn’t sacked on the spot?
It does suggest that there is a sinister power keeping these unpleasant and incompetent people in place.
Meanwhile the Scots gov and Westminster are passing laws to restrict our right to protest and our domestic finances are being stressed thus distracting most people from thinking, let alone actively campaigning to inform the wider public, about the Scottish people’s rights over our government.
So we need a bright idea on how to change the people at the top of the SNP. I haven’t got one, I’m afraid.
But it is clear that your site, Rev, is very important in spreading the word. Breeks suggestion of publicising Scotland’s Constitution is a good one. If you can bear to continue you will rack up several billion Brownie points and can look forward to seeing your statue in towns all over a restored Scotland!
Chas says:
9 June, 2022 at 1:35 pm
What I find refreshing is seeing new (to me) posters appearing on this thread. I admit that I came to Wings late and these posters are individuals who probably posted years ago before I ‘found’ the site.
Maybe they never really disappeared but simply refrained from posting as they did not wish to be associated with the romantics, the terminally stupid and the simply misguided dross that have hogged the site for the past year or so.
Why do you suppose they have risked posting now? According to you the terminally stupid, misguided dross are still posting here.
Just out of interest why do you post here?
Have you written to Stu to complain about the ‘terminally stupid, misguided dross posting here?
I see someone mentioned this further up the thread.
link to wingsoverscotland.com
FFS when are Scots going to wake up and realise that Westminster has NO authority over Scotland, we can leave this union at will.
We just need the right FM in place to pursue it, or as our ancestors did get enough folk to revolt against the current FM and remove her.
Ruby
You contribute absolutely nothing to this site.
All you ever do is respond to the post of another with some snidey wee comment or post a link espousing some one else’s views. You have no originality. A former boss of mine. who I respected, once told me it is the easiest thing in the world to highlight problems. It is far more difficult to provide solutions to the problems!
I do not have the inclination to write to Stu to complain about people like you. It is a free country, at the moment. Censorship ultimately serves no purpose for the individual or you end up being like Russia.
““ they’ve all gone backwards … frankly none of them deserve any better” a remarkably graceless statement if it includes the likes of Yours for Scotland and Barrhead Boy,”
Neither of those were in the previous piece.
Chas you are one of that small group of people that are constantly deriding others here.
That offer no solutions other than snp,/ union idealist commentary.
Kettle calling the pot black comes to mind.
Your select group are constantly derogatory to others, not given others proper titles and changing their names,
the put downs and name calling are deliberately disruptive to other commentators like school yard bullies.
We are the grass routes movement, on here seeking alternative ways to a bad solution,
You have actually contributed nothing in joining in the conversations except to be demeaning to others.
In a little while the rest of your group will come to your defense, doing exactly the same as you.
We recognise all of you in that group by the terminology you use towards others here,
You stick out like sore thumbs glowing in the dark.
And That’s Nothing.
A9 dualling ergo funding…
Well guess not then, as it turns out [how much do Portuguese house builders charge these days BTW?]
Did you know more of the A9 was dualled when THATCHER was in office?
Pipe, smoke, that.
Just remember, SNP1 and 2.
Idiots.
Entirely agree with Breeks, Stu, you have a role to play. Sorry to ‘bully’ you over this but without wishing to be dramatic, your country needs you (Obi-Wan..)
I will just say that Robin McAlpine’s blog is always worth reading, and James Kelly’s Referendum Countdown has been enormously entertaining.
twathater says:
9 June, 2022 at 11:02 am
“Everything you say is true and so depressing ,but if we all just walk away Sturgeon and her woke Taliban will have won ,we OWE it to the future generations of Scotland to continue the fight”
F**k ’em. If it’s not going to happen in my lifetime I don’t give a toss. Won’t be here to see what happens so don’t care. The “yoof” get enough done for them when I can’t even get the pension I paid into for years so – no. Sod it.
,
I rate Barrheadboy and YoursforScotland blogs both very highly, Voices for Independence is another regular stop in my day, but we need all of these and more to reach 5 million + people.
The point I was making is this Claim of Right approach is hopefully going to change the whole constitutional and political landscape, and a big story needs bandwidth just to get the information out there.
Dare I say it, if WGD is content to run the Claim of Right approach, (that’s an if, I don’t know that he is), but if he is, then please, look on that as a plus. If we can even get Unionist sites to look at the Claim of Right, then even that is a plus. 2014 was a NO vote, but a sovereign NO vote, and to some Unionists, that distinction mattered. We could witness some progressive debates on the Claim of Right as Scots amongst Scots.
We need every voter in Scotland, even Unionists, to be fully aware of the Claim of Right and it’s significance, because a plebiscite General Election is binary, for Independence or Against, and we want Scotland to storm the Bastille that day, all of us, a sea of Saltires, getting that vote over the line.
If people are going to waste their time with Holyrood, then they’re to be pitied, not alienated, because every YES vote in that plebiscite is going to count. Yes, we do need to watch out for constitutional blunders, but it’s time we focused on our own plan and stopped worrying about everybody else.
@MarkBoyle re. “…a clown called Gregor has been merrily posting whatever idiotic conspiracy theory or junk news tickles his fancy (including links) unfettered over at the Silence Of The Sacrificial Lambs post from 7th February…”
…I’m not an object, thanks.
You make the effort worthwhile knowing that the public is viewing the archived information and facts.
World Economic Forum: People:
Nicola Sturgeon:
link to weforum.org
World Economic Forum:
“The World Economic Forum (WEF) is an international non-governmental and lobbying organisation…
The Forum suggests that a globalised world is best managed by a self-selected coalition of multinational corporations, governments and civil society organizations, which it expresses through initiatives like the “Great Reset”…”:
link to en.wikipedia.org
The real tragedy is that anyone is still reading Paul Kavanagh’s self-serving dross.
As one of the ‘also rans’ in the Scottish political blogging stakes I am grateful even to warrant a mention. I have never taken much interest in the stats for my site. I never aspired to be up there with the leaders. I never wanted my writing to be driven by stats as I know some are.
Neither did I ever imagine my blog could take the place of Wings Over Scotland. I don’t know what Stu Campbell takes from the figures he has shared with us. What it tells me is that he is irreplaceable. He has provided a unique and highly valued service to Scotland’s cause. Nobody in the Yes movement does forensic journalism even half as well as Stu does. Certainly not me.
I venture to suggest that this places a certain responsibility on Stu Campbell. If he has something to contribute to Scotland’s cause that only he can provide then I think the word ‘duty’ might fairly be invoked.
Not a day passes but, faced with the various idiocies infecting the independence campaign, I consider abandoning my blog. I know how disheartening it is to pound away day after day puncturing the same myths and falsehoods and trying to inject some hard-headed realism into the narrative only to be met with infantile abuse from SNP/Sturgeon loyalists or Alba devotees or whoever has registered on my numptimeter.
I know how depressing it is to repeat the same things over and over because nobody is listening. I know how frustrating it is to have to point out things that should be obvious but that people just don’t want to see.
I know how unpleasant is the environment for any dissenting voices in the Yes movement. Stu Campbell is right when he says “The campaign for independence is now in all meaningful senses the sole property of the SNP.”. Which, to my mind is precisely why we need strong dissenting voices more than ever.
I would say to Stu Campbell, our job is not yet done. YOUR job is not yet done. The audience that Wings Over Scotland has is a valuable asset. Stu Campbell may have built that audience. But I’m not sure he owns it. The argument could be made that such a valuable resource is in some sense the property of Scotland’s independence movement. Perhaps even that the alternative media in Scotland has some claim to it. What I do know is that it is something that should be lightly tossed away.
There is something worth saving here. Let’s think about how we might do that.
Chas says:
9 June, 2022 at 2:40 pm
Ruby
You contribute absolutely nothing to this site.
All you ever do is respond to the post of another with some snidey wee comment or post a link espousing some one else’s views. You have no originality.
That is not contributing nothing. That is contributing quite a lot.
What are your original solutions to our current problems?
C’mon lets hear them! Give us a chance to judge you to see how original you are.
PS My wee snidey comments are very original.
What we’re hearing from Sturgeon on an indyref we’ve sadly heard many times before. Folk who still support her nee to realise they are being played big time.
“On 13 March 2017, Nicola Sturgeon announced she would seek Scottish Parliament approval for a second independence referendum to be held between Autumn 2018 and Spring 2019.
On 9 October 2017, at the start of the SNP conference, Nicola Sturgeon spoke about #indyref2:
“Let me just say, for the sake of clarity… we have a mandate for this parliament. We won that mandate last year but after the General Election I heard clearly people saying with the uncertainty of Brexit it was premature to be definitive about a timescale right now. So I have said I will not consider the timescale until there is a greater clarity about the Brexit talks. I am not going to go any further than that, that’s my position.”
I would like to thank the Rev Campbell for a fantastic contribution to the movement over the years. The WoS site has been an invaluable source of information, inspiration and direction (focal point) that, together with the WBB, almost certainly contributed to a good few percentage points for YES in 2014. Other sites did their bit (even WGD back in the day lol) but WoS was the site that really made the difference IMO.
I know all seems lost at the moment, but “Events, Dear Boy!” can and will change everything. With the western economies on their knees and petrol about to reach 2 quid a litre, we are approaching conditions never experienced by most people alive today. A huge amount of brown stuff is about to hit the fan. People can and will react (eventually) but it takes time. We are still in the early, “Denial” phase. Just wait until it eventually turns to anger, as it undoubtedly will. When that happens is anybody’s guess but when it does, the people of Scotland who want to do something about it will need a site like WoS like never before. Enjoy a well-earned rest, Rev. I hope you re-enter the ring at some stage. For Scotland.
Some bloggers can’t help making it all about them, which tends to put off those who don’t like that style of writing. Wee Deid Dug is one such blog, there are plenty of others.
Peter Bell mentioned himself a lot in his comment at 4:21pm, didn’t he? (Any advance on 24?)
Words are trivial, enjoy the silence.
The difference with Wings was that what was being published was in general both original and factual material which was genuinely of interest to a wide number of people.
Other sites like WGD basically regurgitate the same old shite they’ve been pumping out for years or like Scot Goes Pop are so niche (and frankly weird at times) that they have a miniscule audience.
You could probably shut Wings down completely and you’d still get more DNS lookups on the website for a few months than any of the others.
Sad state of affairs really but what’s the point in flogging a dead horse – and indy IS dead for as long as the Murrells run Scotland.
I think it is still worth keeping things just ticking over for now
Fleet in being:
In naval warfare, a “fleet in being” is a naval force that extends a controlling influence without ever leaving port.
Merely by NOT completely packing up you exert a significant pressure keeping some of the worst elements in check
Although things don’t look good at present, events have a way of changing in unexpected and sudden ways. Many political events in my lifetime came out of the blue & changed things radically.
No guarantees but you services may be needed at short notice & would be missed if completely dismantled.
As in 1745 a ground swell awaits the return of our Prince ehm make that Rev
p.s.
I did not see a problem with Peter Bells’ post
Peter A Bell @ 4.21pm I very seldom agree with you wholeheartedly and have often argued with you on your own blog and been called various names by you for doing so , BUT I heartily agree with your comment upthread and applaud you for saying it
Stuart Campbell started this blog to further and support Scotland’s independence , are we there yet , are we independent , is the job done , NO , so WHY is he retiring , WE , YOUR READERS AND SOMETIME FINANCIAL CONTRIBUTERS gave YOU our loyalty , yet when the going gets tough you DESERT US
YOU OWE US , you have sucked us in with your ability to EXPOSE corruption and your determination DESPITE OVERWHELMING opposition to tell the fucking TRUTH , it has cost you dearly in fear and sleepless nights but you KEPT GOING and kept on challenging the scum , NOW you want to walk away and have a nice quiet life and fuck Scotland and the arsewipes that live there , YOU have earned the respect and even dare I say it the love of thousands of us arseholes for standing by our sides and SHOWING us the way REAL JOURNALISM should be used to EXPOSE CORRUPTION and CHALLENGE LIARS
So now you want to throw us to the lions because you’re tired and frustrated , Breaking news Stuart we’re ALL fucking tired and frustrated but some of us cannot walk away while we still breathe and our country is held in chains and governed by SCUM that you so magnificantly exposed and ridiculed and continue to do so
YOU set yourself up as a freedom fighter through WORDS , your words and posts are ADDICTIVE , everyone wakes in the morning and is excited (I know boring bastards) to see a new post from WOS TELLING THE TRUTH but you want to deprive us addicts of our fix , you have a selfish streak
I share your frustration and depression that things are bleak but if you walk away SHE and THEY WIN and sorry to say YOU will be blamed , bear patrol isn’t all it’s cracked up to be it becomes boring, your better off here being reviled and despised by OUR OPPONENTS WE’VE GOT YOUR BACK DO YOU HAVE OURS
Robin McAlpine ..
never miss him (and all the other pro indy bloggers, including Wings) by subscribing, free, to the Daily Digest from Voices for Independence, here:
link to voices.scot
Robin also writes a weekly column for Common Weal, also listed on Voices for Independence.
The movement owes you a huge debt Stu. Of course many within the movement will never acknowledge that debt: well, fuck ’em I say. It’s difficult not to share your conclusion that the campaign for independence is now the SNP’s creature, and effectively dead in the water. Either the SNP will come a cropper when it fails to deliver on its “Free by ’23!” fairy tale, or (perhaps less likely?) the SNP membership will finally bestir itself to politically defenestrate the whole Sturgeonista cabal.
We can hope of course, but it behoves us to have a Plan B nonetheless. I’m unconvinced by the cunning plan route that appears to involve magically converting the lumpen devolutionists in the SNP to the benefits of plebiscitary elections for the next Westminster elections. Those who believe that’s happening will probably be interested in that bridge you have to sell.
If the movement as a whole doesn’t force the SNP to change and/or ensure new entrants like Alba, ISP and others make an impact in time for Holyrood 2026 elections on a declared plebiscitary platform, we may be in for a long haul.
Since the demise of your official twitter account and the decision to wind this place down, no alternative platform has reached escape velocity. There are no current alternative blogs with your reach, and no sign of any successor or replacement vehicle. Perhaps something else will emerge when a real campaign starts again, or perhaps the next campaign – whether #indyref2, plebiscitary elections or cunning constitutional alternative Plan C – will look different and require something different.
The big tent of 2012-14 has not just collapsed around our ears, its wreckage has been burnt to a crisp and lots of folk are enjoying a dance on the ashes. It’s hard to imagine campaigning shoulder to shoulder with some of the pieces of work within the movement who have shown their true colours in recent years, and whose vision of what the early days of our better nation might look like appears not just politically unattractive but positively alien.
Hopefully we will see you on the other side, and it will be a destination we can all be proud of, not scared of?
Things are changing behind the scenes,
The change that is coming will break down the economy of great Britain, we already see this happening with fuel prices, energy prices, lockdowns that promoted and speedily advanced this destruction, empty shelfs, no transport,
Appalling brexit deals across the other side of the world, while penalising our own food producers plus other businesses closing in Britain like there is no tomorrow.
And a NHS that is slowly being sold in Scotland.
The collapse that is coming will be a game changer for Scotland’s need for independence.
No one wants to live with food shortages, a broken economy,
and if that is the downward trend of Not So Great Britain,
Many others in Scotland will wake up prettybsoon.
The” Claim of Right ”
The right to self determination,
The Scottish Constitution,
Our own constitutional Parliament
Making ole Nick redundant without pay.
And the increasing drive of ScotS,
not wanting to go down the plug hole with the rest of, ” the not so well run ” Great Britain.
We cannot leave the boat now the economical tide is turning in britain.
Excuse the mixed methaphors.
But i believe Great Britain is well on the way to sinking its own boat.
twathater says: 9 June, 2022 at 6:15 pm [truncated for reasons of sanity]
Stuart Campbell started this blog to further and support Scotland’s independence , are we there yet , are we independent , is the job done , NO , so WHY is he retiring , WE , YOUR READERS AND SOMETIME FINANCIAL CONTRIBUTERS gave YOU our loyalty , yet when the going gets tough you DESERT US … YOU OWE US … WE’VE GOT YOUR BACK DO YOU HAVE OURS
He owes you and every other reader here the sum total of hee-haw, get over yourself and take your sense of entitlement with you.
“Pedantically, I’d point out that you can’t just add up the “average visits per post” of all the other sites. To get a true average you would then need to divide by the number of sites (so the difference would be even greater)”
Have now fixed that chart.
Most of us that are the grass roots do not expect a result in 2023.
Most of us are considering alternatives to waiting until 2026 also.
Waiting has been flogged to death by the Snp and the British Scottish/ devolved government.
And a large % are thinking that it will never be established through British run electorial system that dictates The Scottish Sovereign voice, something akin the bias of the Brexit vote.
Is it not strange,
That we have a devolved government with no teeth,
Although even more curious is the obvious way the British Parliament often Acts solely as a English Parliament while in a treaty,
When the British Parliament reserves matters to itself, it Acts as a English Parliament within the British Parliament structure.
Because it avoids dismissing itself, while not passing these matters on
Not to devolved Wales,
Not to devolved Northern Ireland,
Not to devolved Scotland.
But England has never had a devolved Parliament, therefore does not make itself obsolete.
England represents itself through the British Parliament.
The “Yours For Scotland” numbers may well be under-represented because of how it is managed.
It publishes a prodigious number of articles the texts of which are included in subscribers’ email notifications in their entirety. After signing up for its email notifications, it is quite possible to diligently follow that blog without revisiting the site.
“WE , YOUR READERS AND SOMETIME FINANCIAL CONTRIBUTERS gave YOU our loyalty , yet when the going gets tough you DESERT US … YOU OWE US … WE’VE GOT YOUR BACK DO YOU HAVE OURS”
You got two extra years for free.
A fair point Neil. To be honest I never thought about that as my site is driven by issues more than numbers. I am however happy that it is growing in the rankings. From memory I think it is the first time and my blog, in comparison to many others, has only operated from mid 2020.
We’re floundering at the moment. Seemingly non-members of the SNP are trying to find ways of changing the leadership of the SNP. I don’t see how that can be done. That’s just wasting time and keeps Nicola Sturgeon in the work-shy luxury she’s been basking in for the last eight years.
Too many people have been betrayed and are disillusioned. We lack leadership and ideas. We need to find and support people who aren’t tainted by the past, who are willing to tackle Sturgeon and her lackeys head on, who will act appropriately against those standing in the way of independence and who think kid gloves are for kids.
The movement has withered badly, starved the oxygen of motivation by Sturgeon’s dithering at best and clear deliberate sabotage at worst.
I reserve a significant amount of kudos for (most of) the people still able to find the energy to write anything at all about independence 8 years after the first referendum (be it regularly or be it ad-hoc), with little more than “indyref2 coming soon, supposedly…” to fuel the campaign since. What is there left to say?
Incredibly, it seems that the people who genuinely want independence but can’t or won’t recognise the obvious signs that the SNP don’t seem to still be a tiny minority in the grand scheme of things.
@ gregor says:9 June, 2022 at 4:02 pm
You’re back! And still posting your signature “dictionary definitions”.
I hope you are going to stay on the current thread in future, and not waste your time posting over and over on stale threads that nobody ever looks at.
Here’s a thought: why don’t you do requests?
I know for a fact that many on here want a definition of “woman”.
Take your time.
@ James Che. says:9 June, 2022 at 6:51 pm
“the bias of the Brexit vote”
You certainly have that one right, James. I remember it so clearly. Wall-to-wall coverage telling us how we must vote to Remain. The SNP, TUC, CBI, organised religion, BBC, charitable bodies, hell, even the saintly Obama turned up to tell us to Remain.
Yet, even in Scotland, Remain only managed 62% on a two-thirds turn-out.
Would Scotland, without the historic levels of bias and manipulation we were exposed to, have voted Leave?
It is possible. It is certain that the result would have been a lot closer.
Rev Stu
I posted at 4.04 today and I see my comment is still ‘under moderation’. First time this has happened to me!
As far as I am aware there is no ‘naughty’ words used.
Can you kindly explain why please.
Robin McAlpine reveals quite a bit here on what the SNP government has and hasn’t done under the tenure of Sturgeon, and its doesn’t make for a pleasant read.
link to robinmcalpine.org
A snippet.
“The brutality of the cuts which are ahead will change everything in Scottish politics. The cause of independence is now two separate causes. The vast majority of the movement’s membership see the cause of independence as a chance to escape the right-wing politics of the British state.
The Scottish Government, on the other hand, sees the cause of independence as a means of prolonging the right-wing politics of the British state. That this continues to surprise people amazes me – the Scottish Government threw its lot in with Charlotte Street Partners (key ‘fixers’ for Scotland’s right-wing establishment) from the beginning. But the movement and the media commentators refused to believe what they were seeing.”
I found a bumblebee early this morning on my windowsill, its back legs caught in a cobweb. A sorry sight. I removed the web and took the wee bee outside. We sat on the garden bench together, in the sunshine, she prostrate on my hand. How soft her furry coat.How her wings sparkled.I thought she might have died, all my hope and good intentions come to naught. But after a few minutes of me singing ‘Oh my darling Clementine’, she suddenly washed her face and with a salute of antenna, buzzed off. ‘Your welcome!’, I called after her. Then I went inside and made some coffee and toast, with an inexplicably happy heart.
I would imagine it would be quite difficult to write articles about the Independence movement at the moment when there is so little happening especially if you are not prepared to write about Nicola Sturgeon, the SNP, GRA reform, lack of progress on Indy.
The Wee Ginger Dug seems to be just selling stories about the Tories.
The Wee Ginger Dug writes an new article everyday so you would expect him to be way ahead of Wings even if he is just writing about the Tories.
I think people enjoy reading the BTL comments and taking part in the debate.
The fact that the censorship on WGD is so rigid might be the reason why he doesn’t have as many readers as Wings.
I had said on the previous post this morning that Boris Johnson is safe. With his speech in Blackpool which if his main idea is implemented will result in another sub-prime financial disaster waiting to happen.
IIRC, a poster had mentioned that Sturgeon is almost similar to Johnson but I’d have to disagree with that. Both are exactly the same but the only reason why Sturgeon can’t blatantly lie the way Johnson does is because she doesn’t have the amount of connection that Johnson does nor the right background where he deemed by the establishment as the right sort.
I have to share the pessimism of other posters that the economy is heading for meltdown. We have a government that hasn’t got a clue and will only act when it is forced on them which in this instance will be too late.
As with Brexit, this is another perfect opportunity for politicians who were genuinely interested in independence to step forward and offer leadership and a way out of the mess. Sadly, again it won’t happen.
Chas says:
9 June, 2022 at 8:22 pm
Rev Stu
I posted at 4.04 today and I see my comment is still ‘under moderation’. First time this has happened to me!
As far as I am aware there is no ‘naughty’ words used.
Can you kindly explain why please.
ROFLOL
Did you miss my contribution re ‘naughty words’?
He owes you and every other reader here the sum total of hee-haw, get over yourself and take your sense of entitlement with you.
Rev got a new spokesperson?
Does that include your request to get rid of Gregor & Andy Ellis’s request to sort out the moderation.
@ PacMan says:9 June, 2022 at 8:41 pm
“will result in another sub-prime financial disaster waiting to happen”
As the last sub-prime financial disaster was caused by over-extended lending in the US property market, coupled with wrapping up of debt in complex financial packages which were sold on with the highest ratings, leading to world-wide contagion, I don’t see the connection.
1) Whatever Boris does, it won’t affect the US.
2) Unlike people who lose their jobs and suffer income drop, people’s benefits largely stay the same.
It’s a crap idea, because people who go out to work to fund their home purchase, will be livid about people who don’t work also getting onto the property ladder, courtesy of worker’s taxes.
It’s a crap idea because in the absence of an adequate house building programme, anything that increases demand from buyers will just push property prices even higher.
No need to come with fanciful, illusory reasons about why it is a crap idea.
O/T: Broadcasting Scotland need £20,000 by 15th June – they have received c £2,700 so far. See broadcastingscotland.scot.
@ Iain Lawson: thank you for your blog and twitter – I look in everyday. Your article about how the National Council of the SNP used to work was an eye-opener.
OT Just in case folk haven’t seen it Nae Pasaran is on the strange BBBC Scotland channel at 10p.m after The Nine.
Republicofscotland @ 8:23 pm
“The cause of independence is now two separate causes. The vast majority of the movement’s membership see the cause of independence as a chance to escape the right-wing politics of the British state. The Scottish Government, on the other hand, sees the cause of independence as a means of prolonging the right-wing politics of the British state.”
The independence of the people and nation is not a matter of left or right, or socialism versus capitalism. Such perspectives reflect a rather rudimentary understanding of the colonial situation. In colonialism, the most urgent requirement is always the liberation of the people.
As Albert Memmi explained it: “In order to witness the colonized’s complete cure, his alienation must completely cease. And for this we must await the complete disappearance of colonization.”
@Ron MacLean
“We lack leadership and ideas. We need to find and support people who aren’t tainted by the past, who are willing to tackle Sturgeon and her lackeys head on, who will act appropriately against those standing in the way of independence and who think kid gloves are for kids.”
Does anyone have any ideas of who these non-tainted people are, and how long it’s going to take them to put on their boxing gloves and beat the shit out of the devolutionists?
How long is it likely to take do we think…?
Or is this just an alternative “cunning plan” that’s about as likely to succeed and on the same generational timescale?
Are any of these ideas really going to produce results earlier than promoting plebiscitary elections at Holyrood in 2026?
@ John Main
American Sub prime – packaging of mortgage loans given to people who couldn’t afford them. Boris proposed plan – Allow people who get mortgages who can’t afford them especially when interest rates will be constantly raising in the next couple of years.
Sounds the same to me and I didn’t need to copy and paste anything.
Republicofscotland @ 8:23 pm
Yes, excellent article by Robin McAlpine, despite the misunderstanding about what independence means.
link to robinmcalpine.org
Andy Ellis says:
9 June, 2022 at 10:07 pm
@Ron MacLean
“We lack leadership and ideas. We need to find and support people who aren’t tainted by the past, who are willing to tackle Sturgeon and her lackeys head on, who will act appropriately against those standing in the way of independence and who think kid gloves are for kids.”
Does anyone have any ideas of who these non-tainted people are, and how long it’s going to take them to put on their boxing gloves and beat the shit out of the devolutionists?
How long is it likely to take do we think…?
Or is this just an alternative “cunning plan” that’s about as likely to succeed and on the same generational timescale?
Are any of these ideas really going to produce results earlier than promoting plebiscitary elections at Holyrood in 2026?
Ron MacLean is making the classic mistake of looking for some White Knight to ride in to save the day.
It doesn’t have to be a White Knight, or even a Maid Marian & Her Merry Men Whitish Knight. It can be Battleship Grey, just so long as they are committed first and last to independence and not personal vendettas of revenge or the advancement of selves or cronies … which is what puts us I fear with the current difficulties with the current crop of “alternatives”.
Dammit, right now I’d give Robbie The Pict a shot at it if there’s was a chance he’d get further than the squabbling kiddies of Alba and the ISP!
Alf Baird says:
9 June, 2022 at 10:17 pm
Republicofscotland @ 8:23 pm
Yes, excellent article by Robin McAlpine, despite the misunderstanding about what independence means.
link to robinmcalpine.org
When I think about Sturgeon, my attention never really strays too far from Independence and the getting of it. Whatever she does, my personal yardstick is whether it’s good for independence, or bad.
Robin McAlpine has a much rounder grasp of Nicola Sturgeon, and what makes her tick, and my god, no disrespect to Robin McAlpine, but it’s bloody depressing.
It’s like most of us stop looking once we know we’re looking at a monster, but Robin McAlpine goes further, refusing to look away until he’s counted all the teeth and claws. Aye, it’s a monster alright…. We’ve had it confirmed.
Incidentally, can’t remember the last time I checked out WGD but the self delusion is off the scale. Here was me thinking they might embrace a Claim of Right initiative, but it’s like a collective senility over there. Nurse Ratched keeps everything in order handing out the meds but there’s no Randall P. McMurphy to take them all fishing.
In physics there is matter and antimatter, and the two should never meet. WGD has anti-sense over there, and even minimal exposure makes my sense begin to hurt and wonder WTAF?
You want to be positive, but a Quarter million visitors a month is still enough for at least a minor zombie apocalypse.
@ Stuart Campbell 7.34pm , I meant no disrespect by my comment upthread as I believe like so many others that your unstinting work and WBB was instrumental in educating and convincing people of the truth about independence . I know and respect that we have had 2 years for free but believe me when I say every penny you received from everyone was earned and you were entitled too
I was expressing my and I believe others frustration at losing a crucial educational and informative tool for our fight when we desperately need every positive advantage we can rely on
I do not apologise for openly showing desperation in attempting to get you to remain within the fray for without your investigative forensic journalism the independence movement is so much weaker and poorer
@ Mark Boyle 6.36pm When I want your opinion I will ask for it , you don’t know me or anything about me , you just continue with your britnat chums spreading negativity
The clock ticks and nothing lasts forever; good times and bad times both.
Sturgeon will not be FM forever, and when she is not, she is merely a “civilian” without any special protections, no fancy pals looking out for her; even the folks she gave jobs to will not care. Then she may get investigated for organising a criminal conspiracy to jail an innocent man. In this “Salmondgate” affair, if you draw a map of all the players and the arrows, when you follow the arrows back, it all points to her; the woman is a control freak, who despises independent thinkers, who has been very successful by knowing exactly what is going on, and by NOT “forgetting things” to her recollection, in her knowledge, as far as she can recall … nothing happens without her say so. It can only have been her … “I knew it was you, Fredo – you broke my heart”
– when she is gone, her little cabal of judy garland fans will dissipate, run for cover. Cornton Vale could be getting a new batch of “manto”.
Wingers should also read the tabloid press to watch out for the phenomenon of “disappearing stories” regarding our FM; remember to “save as” anything interesting you find.
She is trying to do as much damage as she can while she can (the payoff after will be bigger) e.g. the corporate sell off of the oil, the seabed, the wind, next up the air and the water! – the shambolic lack of any real planning for setting up a new country – but once gone, competent people will arise to fix the damage. But this was always going to happen anyway – neoliberalism is the new orthodoxy, the SNP mere “compradors”.
As for the “tranny madness” – that may get wound up soon. The gays and the feminists, and all the “allies” will be running for cover as it penetrates (oo-er matron) the public mind that its just a trojan horse for paedophilia; they tried to normalise this in the 70s, but blew up spectacularly.
Already in the US, a tranny has been beaten to death by its tinder date – claiming to be a “woman” – its intended paramour unsatisfied by the mantra of TWAW. It got heated, and ended with one dead she-beast-freak. The best part is, it went to court and the jury let the guy off. Such things can easily happen in the UK, and it will be one of the non guardian reading “deplorables” who saves us, by thrashing a tranny having a kinky wank while his 8 year daughter is trying to do a wee.
Alec Salmond will, I hope, have had a very close watch at the hilarious showbiz nonsense of D3pp-He4rd – lying b1tches CAN get their comeuppance, and weeping into a lace handkerchief in your sunday school dress won’t cut it. I mean, what “loss of reputation” for a politician could be worse than everyone thinking
– ‘es a r4partist and eez lawyerz goat im aff bullying that lassie …
suing for damages in the civil courts, each of the alphabetties, individually, in separate courts, for different amounts, could be real fun. Half of them had their arms twisted into it and will likely point fingers if put under pressure, like losing their house.
The rev will get back in the game, once he is sufficiently angry again; but I don’t know if blogging will be it.
the sun will come out, tomorrow …
Help! I’ve just been quoted by Hamish100 over on WGD lol. He thinks I’m a unionist agent, stirring it up, one of the 2% Albanistas. He really didn’t like the idea that NS is boxed into a corner. Truth hurts I guess. Can’t say anything about the Queen can we lol.
Confused @ 2.47
Outstanding post mate ; such , even amongst a host of excellent posts by those I consider possessed of the genuine Independence soul-spark eg Breeks , Alf Baird , Twathater , ROS , James Che amongst – relatively few , others : notably , these are the people who receive the most attention from the square-womb progeny , the Negatrons , who not only seem incapable of * thinking outside the box * , but are intent on nailing the lid of the box shut , with everyone else inside it .
Stu has done his bit , to a standard few can equal – in journalistic terms none can : he’s earned his * Wings * and place in the future history of the Scottish Independence Movement . The true history , the one that will be written not by the collection of grotesques currently eating the movement alive from the inside , but by those not motivated by narcissism , * other * agendas , personal advancement and – delusions of , power .
Mentioned In Dispatches .
Excellent post by the often – unfairly , maligned P.A.B . Who writes consistently well and admirable insight and humour on the serpentine path of our aspiration .
Likewise the redoubtable Craig Murray . ( both of whom I forgot to mention in a comment on the subject of worthwhile bloggers )
@ Confused says:10 June, 2022 at 2:47 am
“It got heated, and ended with one dead she-beast-freak. The best part is, it went to court and the jury let the guy off.”
You got a link for that story, Confused?
Asking because it all seems rather unlikely, and if that part of your post doesn’t stack up … ?
@ PacMan says:9 June, 2022 at 10:12 pm
“Sounds the same to me”
Well, that’s that then. Things that sound the same, must be the same.
Wow, suddenly the world is so much simpler!
Luigi says: 10 June, 2022 at 6:15 am
Denial can lead to powerful negative and destructive emotions.
Maybe the individual that donated a large sum of money for PayPaul’s living wage?
John Main says: 10 June, 2022 at 7:45 am
The American sub-prime crisis was caused by the way the mortgages were re-packaged but because in the first instance the mortgages were given to people who failed eligibility criteria by other banks and shouldn’t have been given a mortgage in any instance.
Maybe you should go back to the Daily Mail where life is simpler?
Just read that Robin Mcalpine article:
“Were it not for the constitution Scotland would be marching to the cries of ‘Nicky Nicky Nicky, Out Out Out’.”
Can anybody tell me which part of the constitution is stopping this from happening?
And a question for the Alba supporters here. Just how much longer is Alba and AS going to keep quiet about all of the SNP gerrymandering, sleaze and incompetence Robin describes?
After all, it’s not just Scotland and the Scots that NS and the SNP is traducing and selling down the river. It’s the very idea of Independence, as Robin makes clear.
Seems to me that at some point Alba needs to break ranks. And if not already in the past, that time is now.
Haha PacMan, there’s large segments of society where just mentioning the “Daily Mail” doesn’t immediately shut down the argument. Soz.
I’m off for a shite. Gonna keep it and tell peeps I am aff the Brew and have finally goat masel a joab.
Well, they sound like the same thing, eh PacMan?
twathater says: 10 June, 2022 at 1:47 am
@ Mark Boyle 6.36pm When I want your opinion I will ask for it , you don’t know me or anything about me , you just continue with your britnat chums spreading negativity
Well this isn’t your site, so you don’t get to order me or anyone else, champ. As for “BritNat”, oh the irony when you sound exactly like one of those far-right losers every day, seeing fifth columnists and spies in the ranks at every little disagreement towards yourself.
@ Stuart Campbell 7.34pm.
I do not apologise for openly showing desperation in attempting to get you to remain within the fray for without your investigative forensic journalism the independence movement is so much weaker and poorer
And now you are even openly dissing off the site’s owner after he copied and pasted – word for word – my concise summary of your offensive demanding post to him in his rebuttal to you.
“Twathater”? You can start by remedying yourself!
Confused says:
Excellent post Confused.
Already in the US, a tranny has been beaten to death by its tinder date – claiming to be a “woman” – its intended paramour unsatisfied by the mantra of TWAW.
That is very interesting.
There was been no info re the cause of all this voilence against transwomen. I’m guessing heterosexual men finding out their date has a penis could account for it.
Confused says
Alec Salmond will, I hope, have had a very close watch at the hilarious showbiz nonsense of D3pp-He4rd – lying b1tches CAN get their comeuppance, and weeping into a lace handkerchief in your sunday school dress won’t cut it.
link to archive.ph
Amber Heard could face police perjury probe
What I found amazing during the Alex Salmond trial was this idea that women could do no wrong.
Also why transwomen think they will be safe in womens spaces.
Luigi says:
10 June, 2022 at 6:15 am
Help! I’ve just been quoted by Hamish100 over on WGD lol. He thinks I’m a unionist agent, stirring it up, one of the 2% Albanistas. He really didn’t like the idea that NS is boxed into a corner. Truth hurts I guess. Can’t say anything about the Queen can we lol.
Funny you should mention Hamish100. I made a post here yesterday concerning him and certain others, and for my first time it has gone into moderation.
Think you will be interested by its contents, and you will find it explains a lot about “him” …
Funny you should mention Hamish100. I made a post here yesterday concerning him and certain others, and for my first time it has gone into moderation.
I’m wondering why posters don’t take the time to find out why their posts have gone into moderation? It’s not that difficult. The certain others could be problem especially if they are posters on WGD.
link to archive.ph
Emily Bridges: Transgender cyclist targeted with ‘threats of physical violence’
This idea that ‘transwomen are women’ hasn’t done folk like Emily Bridges any favours.
The brutal truth is that transwomen are not women and there are very few people who believe they are.
No idea why transwomen think they will be safe in womens spaces. Women for the most part do not believe transwomen are women. Transwomen have been sold a pub.
The solution in my opinion is to say transwomen are transwomen.
That would at least makes things clear on dating sites.
@Mark Boyle 8.22 am
“As for “BritNat”, oh the irony when you sound exactly like one of those far-right losers every day, seeing fifth columnists and spies in the ranks at every little disagreement towards yourself.”
“And now you are even openly dissing off the site’s owner after he copied and pasted – word for word – my concise summary of your offensive demanding post to him in his rebuttal to you.”
It’s the MO of a vociferous claque of regular posters in there though Mark. We all know who they are. Anyone who disagrees with their fringe beliefs and outlandish conspiracy theorising must ipso facto be a britnat agent, a Sturgeonite stooge and/or not a “real” independence supporter. Some of those who ought to know better tolerate their unreason of course.
They honestly believe its OK for them to engage in wall to wall “cunt calling” and the kind of othering we all deprecated Project Fear for using against independence supporters during indyref1 because in general they have no counter arguments and a total inability to debate in good faith.
They range from creepily obsessed types, through those who think dropping the “c bomb” makes them look edgy, to those shrieking into the void about the WEF, vaccine denial, the Great Reset, and the monomaniacs posting ill-researched and unsupported opinion about the Treaties of Union, or those cut and pasting endless off topic links about Hunter Biden’s laptop. Recognising the inhabitants of the basket of deplorables for who and what they are isn’t difficult of course, nor is discerning that they enjoy negligible support and do real damage to the movement.
Sadly, the fact some of them have set up camp in here gives them a false sense of their own importance: they actually believe they have influence and support in the wider movement.
You can see it in the atavistic need of twathater and his ilk to try and bait Rev Stu above, or the nativists need to stridently attack anyone OTHER than Stu who disagrees with their franchise restriction plan as a britnat agent or not a “real” independence supporter. Stu they will say is entitled to his opinion on the matter, but is in this instance wrong etc.: anyone else making the argument is however definitely 77th Brigade, right? If they weren’t so transparent – and so potentially damaging to the movement – they’d be almost comical.
@Alf Baird 10.17 pm
“Yes, excellent article by Robin McAlpine, despite the misunderstanding about what independence means.”
And you do understand what it means presumably? Does it perhaps revolve around your “Scotland as colony” obsession? Can we look forward to lots more quotes from your favourite writers on the subject?
Robin’s piece stated the following which someone else already pointed out:
“Were it not for the constitution Scotland would be marching to the cries of ‘Nicky Nicky Nicky, Out Out Out’. I don’t think anyone should rule out that possibility when the remainder of the independence movement discovers there is no referendum next year.”
Frankly, I have my doubts. Scots voters haven’t shown themselves all that exercised by the denial of mandates, being wrenched out of the EU, the handling of the pandemic, party-gate or anything else over the past eight years since indyref1.
I think some are making the assumption that economic hardship will lead to some kind of “La Diada” moment, with the masses on the street and an accelerated route to a National Assembly without the need for those pesky elections or referendums.
Meanwhile, back in the real world…..
That’s the third of the ‘The Unionist Missionaries’ to give us a sermon this morning. Just need Chas to come along now to point out the error of our ways and that will be all four of the missionaries having done their duty this morning.
The Four Missionaries Of The Apocalypse
‘The Ten Commandments of the The Four Missionaries Of The Apocalypse’
1. Thou shalt not call Andy Ellis a cunt.
2. Thou shalt not call any of The Four Missionaries Of The Apocalypse a BritNat and definitely not a BritNat cunt.
3. Thou shalt not howl at the Moon.
To be continued
@Tourette’s Ruby 9.41 am
Unsurprisingly you lack even the basic self awareness to avoid proving the point made: anyone who disagrees with you is a unionist. That’s the level of you and your posse of mates in here. Strangely, none of you post under your real names so none of us know if any of you are genuine or not.
I mean, it’s not hard to see why most of you would go out of your way to protect your anonymity. Snivelling anonymous coward is as snivelling coward does. The vast majority of ordinary readers can see what you and the moonhowlers are doing though. Nobody takes you or your pretensions to tone police this place remotely seriously.
Andy Ellis says:
10 June, 2022 at 9:56 am
@Tourette’s Ruby 9.41 am
Unsurprisingly you lack even the basic self awareness to avoid proving the point made
@That Cunt Ellis 9:56 am
SSDD!
When are you going to follow the example of ‘Missionary Mark Boyle’ & give up on me?
Why do you continue to try to educate pork?
I’ve noted that ‘Missionary Chas’ didn’t get back to me with his original solutions to our current problems.
link to eventbrite.com
😉
Boris great house give away is just one more bullet in a magazine of bull shit to try and stop the public waiting for party gate justice.
People on benefits could hardly exist prior to having a £20 deduction from their money.
They rely on food banks to stay alive and now they are priced out of heating themselves in Winter.
Low and behold these millions are supposed have a few hundred quid spare to buy their home? What if some could do it and soon after a surveyor says they need £5,000 for a new roof?
No doubt some Tory donors will knock on the door and offer to buy it for them at their discounted rate for a back hander and a pittance reduction in rent for a few years.
They won’t maintain the property to try and force them out and then it’s sold for a very nice fortune.
Bojo will be sending stones to the blood transfusion service next.
I find that article utterly depressing and i hold that skank Sturgeon 100% responsible. A once vibrant indy movement both used and abused in her obsession with self.
I’m all for the plebiscitary ‘Claim of Right’ route but before that happens Sturgeon the skank needs to be replaced by a figure who has Scotland’s right of self-determination at his/her core. A figure who sees and calls the BritNat media for what they are, not one who rewards their crimes against Scotland with a bung of several million pounds.
We need a leader with a robust mindset, one who likes to “pick a fight” rather than one who prefers to ‘pic a pose'(deliberate play on words so pedants beware 😉 ). We need someone who will not stand for Scotland being shat on and publicly humiliated by a bunch of Etonian toffs, or anyone else for that matter.
Until we get such a person in place then any attempt in the plebiscitary direction will be just another exercise in futility achieving nothing more than keeping Sturgeon on her throne. A throne carried aloft by all her Westminster pension minions. Until we do have such a person in place i think we should be aiming to oust all those pension parasites who have went to Westminster to “settle in”.
We should be looking to call for a boycott of UK General Elections to rid ourselves of those who have used and abused our loyalty and votes in pursuit of their own financial interests. I don’t see the type of person we need anywhere on the horizon so until that person is identified we should be looking to focus our energies on ousting them. Whilst, perhaps, promoting the ‘Claim of Right’ at the same time. Educate and renovate!
Note: I seen someone use a boxing analogy earlier. I disagree, we’ve been getting royally shafted for decades due to our insistence on fighting by Marquis of Queensbury rules. A drastic change of tactics has been long overdue, we need a cage-fighter not a boxer.
Eh Ruby when did you become attracted to Ellis ? was it love at first sight ? or has his educated and thought provoking posts won you over ?
Eh Ellis or what ever you’re name is what’s a Moonhowler it’s a phrase you tend to use in your daily posts in fact most days sometimes on a hourly basis but what does it mean , just asking like .
Again Ellis Do you get paid for the amount of replies you generate ? I Imagine there must be some kind of bonus system where you work ,do you share it with the other three clowns who have pitched up camp here or is it winner takes all , because everyone here knows that this is your day job , do you confine yourself to just this site or do you roam about .
Breeks says:
10 June, 2022 at 12:36 pm
link to eventbrite.com
🙂
Very Interesting.
‘The Truth Shall Set Us Free’
Great music by Paul Monsey
Robert Graham says:
10 June, 2022 at 1:03 pm
Eh Ruby when did you become attracted to Ellis ? was it love at first sight ? or has his educated and thought provoking posts won you over ?
God knows! I think I might need an exorcism or maybe he does.
BTW You’ve got a love-letter with love & kisses from Mark at the end of the ‘Firing Blanks’ article “You sad, miserable excuse for a carbon based life form”
Ah! Don’t you just love those pet names?
When did you two hook up?
John main.
I am sorry I was unable to get back to you’re question yesterday, as I have mentioned a few times here and as a reminder so no one thinks i am ignoring them,
My partner is diagnosed with cancer this and my mother also has cancer, and we have lost another four family members over the last year, we are often at sixes and sevens
I am not seeking sympathy, just an understanding of why suddenly I do not continue to respond sometimes,
I have quickly reread some of the past post, and it has for the most part been pleasant reading from everyone contributing .
It is nice not to have to by pass school yard bullying, demeaning attitudes and derogatory comments for a while, while it lasted.
Life can be bad enough, without all the demeaning name calling, snide remarks and sharp retorts.
We are here for one and the same purpose I hope, to put our heads together and come up with solutions for how to get around the Scottish devolved government, and the Snp failure to act,
As far as I can see, the issue is not necessarily [ a one new hero leader] to lead independence,
As Knights in white armour only come around every few hundred years,.
Waiting for a hero, is like waiting for the Snp to listen to us.,
Little chance of either happening,
To conclude our focus must be how to bridge the gap between officialdom and what those whom want a independent Scotland are seeking.
I have no worries that not everyone is on board with us at the moment, westminsters governance of the Britain, the economy, food , energy, and fuel shortages will quickly wake others up this year,
But the problem has to sorted by the people, by the sovereign Scots, as a group.
Very interested to read the latest stats on the Tory mirage called Levelling up.
Birmingham are to receive £778,000,000 in Central Funding to host the Commonwealth Games.
I recall a request for Central Funding as Glasgow held the Greatest Commonwealth Games Ever where they received snubs and insults but not One Penny.
“The Glasgow 2014 budget of £472.3m was made up of £372m of public money with the remainder coming from commercial income generated through sponsorship, ticket sales, broadcasting rights and merchandise sales.”
I LEVEL Is an anagram of EL EVIL.
Did Boris do Spanish at Eton ?
Reposted from the failed attempt 1t 4.04 pm yesterday. One ‘naughty ‘ word replaced!
James Che
Don’t tell me your latest post was some pathetic attempt at trying to defend that shrinking violet Ruby? Of course, nobody from your ‘romantics’ group ever derides any from the sane and realistic individuals who exist within the Independence movement!
I have tried to steer various ‘threads’ away from the gnashing of teeth and wringing of hands about how unfair 300 year old treaties are. Airy fairy Grand Scottish Assemblies, appointed by whom? and only including such like minded Scots and conveniently ignoring the 55% of all Scots who currently DO NOT seek Independence. I have tried to suggest ways on how we convince those 55% to switch, as Sturgeon and her incompetents do not seem prepared to do so.
I note that you have appointed yourself as spokesman for the ‘We are the grass routes movement, on here seeking alternative ways to a bad solution’, yet you fail to realise that change will ONLY come via the ballot box, in my humble opinion, of course but you seem to know otherwise. Clutching at straws seems appropriate!
I have asked umpteen times ‘What happens if Independence is magically achieved from a long and costly court case righting 300 year old past wrongs?’ ‘Where are the projected financials for an Independent Scotland?’ ‘How would UK assets and Liabilities be divvied up?’ ‘What currency?’ ‘Where is our Central Bank?’ ‘How would we defend/protect ourselves if that nice Russian gentlemen took a liking to our fishing grounds oilfields?’. Who governs an Independent Scotland?. Do you think the SNP will simply walk away? These are just a few of the many difficult questions that have to be answered, The response-virtual silence or ‘It will all be fine’
‘We recognise all of you in that group by the terminology you use towards others here’. WHO THE HELL IS THE WE’? Is that another Group of whom you are the appointed spokesman?
Yet you say I have contributed nothing?
You appear very simplistic in your outlook and seem incapable of addressing the serious issues that currently face Scotland.
Maybe you should try living in the REAL world and not the imaginary one that exists within your head!
Robert Hughes.
I appreciate the thumbs up for my efforts, along with all the others,
You forgot one thing though.
Mind include yourself, your just as important.
Stoker says:
Note: I seen someone use a boxing analogy earlier. I disagree, we’ve been getting royally shafted for decades due to our insistence on fighting by Marquis of Queensbury rules. A drastic change of tactics has been long overdue, we need a cage-fighter not a boxer.
Excellent post Stoker. ***** Five stars.
Totally agree!
In a rush now. More to say later.
@Ruby says:10 June, 2022 at 9:55 am
‘The Four Missionaries Of The Apocalypse’
Let’s see now, there’s me, Andy, Mark & Chas.
But you ignore anything by me and Andy. Fact. You have posted about that so many times, no way could that be one of your lies.
So who are the missing two?
Or are you using a different base for your arithmetic?
How many fingers and toes you got, Ruby?
I am quite excited now, I defo think I could be onto something here!
You know ,all you golden oldies who have been here since the beginning of Wings, we were well instructed by Stu to ignore those who gaslight , insult and generally troll.
Give it a go eh??
“‘What happens if Independence is magically achieved from a long and costly court case righting 300 year old past wrongs?’”
The Supreme court is an English construct and should have no bearing on Scots as we are sovereign in Scotland.
Re my 2.41pm. comment.
I should’ve added that the Supreme court was created in England in 2009, to give it an air of supremacy over all the people of the countries of the UK, established by Gordon Brown when PM in 2009, Brown even stuffed it with a few Britnat leaning Scottish judges to give a feeling of legitimacy over sovereign Scots.
I am not so worried as to our economy being able to support us after we gain independence,
We are a fairly large country, surround by resources,
With only somewhere around 5 million people to support,
Yes we have to organise who runs that,
But to be honest who ever replaces NS government and BJ government have a fair chance of succeeding in just doing that,
The principles of how a country runs will be the same.
The problem of adjustment may not be as complicated as some make out,
Some structures can be copied, while others may not follow old fashioned ways of thinking,
Being independent does not mean we have to run all of Scotland in the same British copycat manner,
Meanwhile we have templates to guide us that we can copy and organise.
Scots are not brainless.
What happens if independence is magically achieved from a long and costly court case?
Firstly republicofscotland is correct.
Secondly who is bringing the court case, England?
The financial onus would be on England. For it would surely loose.
It can not prove it invited the sovereign Scots into the treaty of the union even though the english parliament discussed doing so.
It cannot prove it has not broken the treaty of union Articles.
It cannot prove it has not been acting solely as a English parliament over reserved matters,
It cannot prove it has not interfered in Scots Law,
It cannot prove it has sovereignty over the Scots.
The Barnett formula does not even out taxation.
It cannot prove it has parliamentary sovereignty in all of Britain, only England.
It can not prove it has not minipulated the treaty to Englands benefit.
The problem for The British parliament is that has not respected the actual treaty of the union articles time and again,
I had a thought that Scotlands people may one day soon realise with the “Claim of Right,” ” “sovereignty of the Scots” and ” the right to self determination” along with the Scottish Constitution
Might just say. Thats it.
“Were going, we do not need your permission,”
Let the British government contest it afterwards, not before, as they would surely obfuscate Scotland’s independence through years of wrangling deliberately just to delay that independence.
Do it first, let them contest it afterwards.
What is the UN going to say, sovereign Scots “with a Claim of Right” do not have a right to “self determination”
When the Uk government/Parliament and treaty acknowledge we do.
Anyway hows the teeth?
miss your disection of the yoon and Britnat media.
Thank you for giving the plebs the enlightenment to question a MSM story.
I agree with you that your old job is done, until the leaders of the SNP find a definative answer to “what currency will you use?”
That can persuade (The Rangers supporters) that Scotland’s Independence is vialble then we are stuck in the constitutional malaise we are now in.
But cometh the requirement to once again pick up the pen.
I hope you will do it if only to annoy (compfy Pete) and (Jazz Hands)
Retirment is boring! Lets call it a Sabbatical 😉
Good luck with your memoirs
John Main says:
10 June, 2022 at 2:22 pm
‘The Four Missionaries Of The Apocalypse’
So who are the missing two?
‘The Four Missionaries Of The Apocalypse’
Andy, Mark, Chas & John
That should be easy enough to remember even if you only did the very minimum of RE at school.
Relax everybody.
James Che ‘is not so worried as to our economy being able to support us after we gain Independence’. No doubt he will be along shortly with figures to back his claim up? Yet again the dreamers manta ‘It will all be fine’. Do you know how many of the current approx 5.5 million living in Scotland actually pay Income Tax?
Then we are back on, yet again, to the 300 year old Treaty. It is somehow torn up, by whom?, how?, when? and all Scotland’s problems magically disappear and we arrive in the land of milk and honey.
James, you have not even attempted to answer any of the serious questions I raised. Instead claim of rights, sovereignty, self determination, Scottish Constitution. All the usual patriotic guff with nothing about how it is achieved apart from ‘Might just say. That’s it Were going, we do not need your permission’. Wow-way-to-go James!
Reality really is not your strong suit. Do you reside in Brigadoon?
@ Dorothy Devine at 2.22: spot on though I think we golden oldies are abiding by the Rev’s guidance, on the whole. I do put in a plea to himself from time to time to block the persistent obfuscators but he is too nice and tolerant – too good for this world, really!
We love you, Wings!
Come back!
Chas, in 2019 Scotland’s GDP was £188 billion (greater that the combined GDP of Estonia. Latvia., Lithuania and Slovakia) and it generated £68 billion in taxes (and that figure will be much greater when taxes registered by UK companies become liable to the Scottish Exchequer. We got £38billion in Barnett so at least 30billion was spent on our behalf by Westminster with us having no say in how.
That’s a pretty decent starting point for a fledgling country.
@Robert Graham 1.03 pm
“Eh Ellis or what ever you’re name is what’s a Moonhowler…”
Definition of?’howl at the moon’:
howl at the moon
to waste your time and energy trying to do something which is impossible or trying to get something which you cannot have.
Example: “You need to adjust your expectations and stop howling at the moon.”
link to collinsdictionary.com.
“Again Ellis Do you get paid for the amount of replies you generate ?”
No, I see it as a public service. Even if someone offered me payment I’d probably donate it to a worthy cause like Alba. Nobody but the basket of sweary deplorables and conspiracy theorising fringe moonhowlers believes all the bullshit about the few remaining adults in the room being unionist plants, or Sturgeonistas, or 77th Brigade.
What really get’s their panties in a bunch is they know they have negligible levels of support: perhaps that’s what explains their atavistic need to be so abusive and other anyone who doesn’t agree with them as a yoon or not a “real” independence supporter? It must be hard work being wrong so consistently and knowing you have no popular support or political hinterland.
Luckily I’m on holiday at present, so I’ve been able to post more. You lucky, lucky people! Unlike most of the moonhowlers I don’t have to do this for more than a fraction of my time: there again I have my doubts how many of them are gainfully employed or employable. From the output I suspect many would struggle to walk and chew gum simultaneously.
It would be a tragedy for the many people who still visit this site to think that the moonhowlers are at all representative of the general readership here, still less of the movement as a whole. The fact that some of them have been around here for a while isn’t an excuse, it’s an indictment.
Sarah, I’m not so sure he is that tolerant BUT he believes in free speech – I think anyone prepared to kill folk with hammers if they don’t do paragraph breaks has to be a wee bitty irascible.
That post by Stoker is absolutely spot on. Imagine having a contest where one side sets their rules which are
Use any scare tactic you can think of.
Lie & cheat.
Hide information.
Hire lawyers who give very dodgy legal advice.
ie Scotland ceased to exist in 1707
Use every dirty trick in the book.
Break rules & offer bribes
and all the rest
and the other side setting their rules
Be honest & open
Be very good & polite
No dirty tricks.
Be nicey, nicey nice
This could be a good example of why nice guys finish last.
No more Mr Nice Guy otherwise we will finish last in round two.
@Chas 4.42 pm
The proponents of “Cunning Plans for Indy”(TM) tend to be pretty light on evidence and analysis, pretty long on assertion, cut and paste and amateur hour hot-takes on their reading of their given hobby horse. Concerning themselves with constitutional minutiae whilst simultaneously having zero back up or analysis from any recognised experts in the fields of constitutional law, history, international relations and / or public policy is of course airily asserted as an advantage rather than a drawback.
After all, folks these days don’t trust experts do they? Why listen to the qualified and experienced, or expect academics or subject matter experts in their fields to know more than world renowned Scottish constitutional affairs expert James Che and his disciples….sorry….learned colleagues in here?
Applying logic to the situation will never work with a certain cadre of regular posters in here. We all know who they are, more’s the pity.
Dorothy Devine says:
10 June, 2022 at 5:06 pm
Sarah, I’m not so sure he is that tolerant BUT he believes in free speech
That is true. The Rev has left a message at the end of the ‘Any Minute Now’ article re moderation.
I think what the Rev dislikes is when the thread turns into a ‘fucking bin fire’ What I understand he means by that is when the thread is taken over by a couple of posters who post 24/7 about the same topic non stop for weeks on end. This happened recently with a certain topic and couple of months ago over Covid.
@Tourette’s Ruby 10.06 am
“When are you going to follow the example of ‘Missionary Mark Boyle’ & give up on me?”
I mostly do: it’s not hard because the overwhelming majority of your posts are uninteresting or comprise of vulgar abuse of others. It’s thus not hard to skim over the vast majority of dross, and I feel no need to interact on things I actually agree with you on such as women’s rights and the need to defeat TRA’s.
“Why do you continue to try to educate pork?”
Pour encourager les autres? It sticks in my throat that the many people who still visit this place might think you and a handful of others who regularly soil the BTL discourse in here, and hold yourselves out as speaking for the majority, will harm the movement any more than they already have.
Achieving independence won’t be done on the backs of fringe groups fluffing conspiracy theory woo-woo and ethnic nationalism, assuring us they have a cunning plan to avoid the need for plebiscitary elections or referendums and advocating the disenfranchisement of 20% of Scots.
Chas says: 10 June, 2022 at 1:39 pm
James Che
I note that you have appointed yourself as spokesman for the ‘We are the grass routes movement, on here seeking alternative ways to a bad solution’ … ‘We recognise all of you in that group by the terminology you use towards others here’. WHO THE HELL IS THE WE’? Is that another Group of whom you are the appointed spokesman? …
Oh, think I can answer that one for you, old boy. James Che’s “Grass Routes” (it’s “grassroots” …) … where have we heard that highly ideosyncratic howler before?
Lenny Hartley says: 24 November, 2020 at 10:19 pm
Just had a very enjoyable evenings entertainment listening to Craig Murray address a grass routes Oban zoom Meeting.
Brian Allan says: 8 June, 2020 at 3:06 pm
I support the formation of an alternative party for the grass routes for capturing the list votes too.
Hamish100 says: 28 December, 2018 at 10:30 am
The issue is I agree getting the non-voters registered in time and hope that they see the pro-independence argument for what it is and stands for in a positive way. In this respect the grass routes of the Independence movement did sterling work I 2014.
Marcia says: 12 April, 2018 at 2:45 pm
Why not have a private Referendum? Sanctioned by an Act of the Scottish Parliament now that some elections have been devolved to the Scottish Parliament. Must have X amount of signatures in each Scottish Constituency for it to be enacted. Move it out to the grass routes. I’m sure many No people would sign too.
Lenny Hartley says: 14 October, 2017 at 4:26 pm [yes, Lenny again]
Gramsci said that for revolution to succeed it had to be driven from the grassroutes not the top of the pyramid down. …I think that The Wee Ginger Dug can inspire and is a good public speaker , but for sure it needs to be driven from the Grass Routes.
Cindie says: 27 July, 2014 at 8:24 pm
It certainly explains why they are so moderate they are in their language for example. Also explains the emphasis on grass routes campaigning.
Papadox says: 12 May, 2014 at 3:28 pm
Thought the Scottish (LONDINIUM branch) T***Y & UNIONIST party was reinvented as the Grass routes NO BORDER CAMPAIGN.
Liquidlenny says: 12 May, 2014 at 9:47 am [funny how a “Lenny” is so synonymous with the same spelling mistake!]
on train picked up daily record at least 9 adverts all spouting quotesfrom some of there grass routes supporters i thought adverts had to be truthful feel a complaint to advertising standards coming on.
Grouse Beater says: 24 February, 2014 at 6:51 pm
The No’s have media and the British establishment on their side. We have the world’s Internet, but above all, grass routes support and attendant campaign.
(Yes … that Grouse Beater, self-styled “Common Man’s Philosopher”, etc.)
theycan’tbeserious says: 26 September, 2013 at 10:53 am
So where is their campaign funding going? Is it the production of “think tanks” (jobs for the boys) to produce bogus information and stats and advertising on google. It doesn’t seem to be grass routes leafleting and events?
There you have it: one website has managed to attract ten “different” posters over a nine year span making the same highly unusual spelling mistake (one of them doing so twice in separate posts, another twice in the same post). Some of them may well be innocent blunders. But all ten?
Observers may also care to notice that one of those listed about is one Hamish100, who has now turned up at the Wee Ginger Dug website today/yesterday spouting off. That other member of the “Grass Routes Gang”, Lenny Hartley back on 14 October 2017 waxed lyrical about what a good speaker Wee Ginger Dug was. Seems they share similar opinions to go with their similar poor grasp of the lingo.
It certainly cannot be dismissed as down to issues of mobile devices’ “predictive text” function: or you’d expect it to turn up far more often elsewhere on the web too.
Which means it’s either:
1. all a spooky coincidence; or …
2. one sad case running up multiple alias (two of them female FFS!) to platform his ramblings on other’s websites and give himself support when required, rotating them to lessen the chances of getting caught out or banned.
Personally, I suspect “2” – others must judge for themselves.
Andy Ellis says:
10 June, 2022 at 5:38 pm
“Why do you continue to try to educate pork?”
Pour encourager les autres? It sticks in my throat that the many people who still visit this place might think you and a handful of others who regularly soil the BTL discourse in here, and hold yourselves out as speaking for the majority, will harm the movement any more than they already have.
Pour encourager les autres?
WTF?
What makes you think pork can speak Spanish?
You need to have more faith in people & what they might think. The people who visit here will be able to spot the fringe nutters, uneducated pork, moonhowlers, skid marks, schemies, snivelling anonymous cowards, without your help.
Could well be they might want to join us and become a member of the ‘Moonhowling Skid Marks’
Relax & just ignore me otherwise the folk who visit here might think ‘you doth protest too much’ and put you down as a misogynistic, racist, dictatorial fruit loop
Chas,
The gist of it,
Its not fine a few years ago.
Its gotten worse by the month ,
It is about to become even worse over the next year,
Why not have a go ourselves.
If we make it worse at least it is our own fault.
Then again there is a chance of improving on something that is in a downward trend since at least 2008 in Britain.
@Tourette’s Ruby 6.22 pm
1) “What makes you think pork can speak Spanish?”
Clearly, my work here is done. No….wait….the other thing! Quelle domage, or even qué pena! 🙂
2) “You need to have more faith in people & what they might think.”
No, I really don’t. Some folk need help. Lot’s of help. With some it’s easy, with some it’s really, really hard. Some folk aren’t even bright enough to know the difference between a well known French phrase and Spanish. That’s pretty impressive in the days of Google.
3) “Could well be they might want to join us and become a member of the ‘Moonhowling Skid Marks”
There’s one born every minute. It is however not a sin to be ignorant. It is however a sin to be as proud of it as some in here appear to be.
4) “…and put you down as a misogynistic, racist, dictatorial fruit loop”
Well no, because anyone with a sense of perspective (I know this gives you and a few others a free pass) will know I’m none of those things, nor do you have any evidence. I and many others do generally ignore you, but due to the volume of your output (around 15% of total posts on this thread) and the fact over half of those are devoted to variously cunt-calling, othering and abusing 4 individuals you have a personal animus against, it’s not difficult for the non moonhowlers to to see where the real issue with BTL comments lies Ruby.
Mark Boyle.
Mank Thanks for the information,
I was not aware of all the others,
@Mark Boyle 6.22 pm
“James Che’s “Grass Routes” (it’s “grassroots” …) … where have we heard that highly ideosyncratic howler before?”
Perhaps grass routes are like county lines but for less serious gear?
It would explain much!
I knew the cavalry would arrive to save you,
A bit later than I thought,
Trumpets to the fore.
Never mind at least the group rounded themselves up got here 🙂
@Ruby says:10 June, 2022 at 6:22 pm
“misogynistic, racist”
You got examples to back up these accusations, Ruby?
I’m betting you have just reached deep into your binbag of assorted insults and scattered a handful.
Still, every day is a school day. Happy to be proven wrong.
Over to you.
James Che 3.54pm.
Well said James, the Britnat shills posing questions about the economy of Scotland after we ditch this rancid union, this is of course the same shite they spouted pre-September 2014.
Being tied to Westminster has been bad for Scotland, one example of the failed union is the so called GERS figures of which 25 of the 26 figures are guesstimates, but if they were true it would show that being part of this union is bad for Scotland, of course we know that already.
Scotland cannot begin to grow and flourish and reach its full potential until it dissolves this union, this will be very harmful to the English economy in so many ways, that’s why England will do everything in its powers to hold onto Scotland, whilst its Britnat shills claim Scotland without the union and cash from England would be a basket case.
@John Main 6.58 pm
“You got examples to back up these accusations, Ruby?
I’m betting you have just reached deep into your binbag of assorted insults and scattered a handful.”
Of course she doesn’t. “Ruby” is one of the snivelling anonymous trolls adept at not being able to cash the cheques her mouth issues. I’m not sure thinking someone is a piece of work for constantly calling you a cunt would be regarded as misogyny…assuming “she” is a “she” of course.
For the record, I’m happy to confirm I’d think “Ruby” was a nasty piece of work irrespective of her sex.
“Perhaps grass routes are like county lines but for less serious gear”
Agent Ellis.
Or more likely Grass Routes are the cables that run in and out of GCHQ and Denison, and we in here certainly know who the “Grasses” are.
Andy Ellis says:
10 June, 2022 at 6:38 pm
Some folk aren’t even bright enough to know the difference between a well known French phrase and Spanish. That’s pretty impressive in the days of Google.
You can tell a lot about people by their sense of humour.
It was a joke una broma, une blague.
@Andy Ellis says:10 June, 2022 at 6:38 pm
“Some folk aren’t even bright enough to know the difference between a well known French phrase and Spanish”
If you read Ruby’s output enough, you will find frequent vignettes like that one. I long ago decided that Ruby is somebody who is quite smart, enjoying the use of a thick alter ego.
It is fascinating to think of the reasons why somebody would come on here and deliberately try to appear more stupid than she actually is. Seems to me that all those posters who see plants and yoons everywhere have been well duped.
Far fetched? I once invited everybody to investigate who Ruby is in Discworld. It’s a sure-fire certainty that when somebody smart is trying to act up as somebody stupid, their ego can’t help leaving little clues about.
Mark Boyle says:
10 June, 2022 at 6:12 pm
Oh, think I can answer that one for you, old boy. James Che’s “Grass Routes” (it’s “grassroots” …) … where have we heard that highly ideosyncratic howler before?
There you have it: one website has managed to attract ten “different” posters over a nine year span making the same highly unusual spelling mistake (one of them doing so twice in separate posts, another twice in the same post). Some of them may well be innocent blunders. But all ten?
—
Very good Clouseau, cased closed.
Here’s another website that has the same issue.
link to twitter.com
There’s always that one guy, and one campaign too many.
Incidently, usage in books has been picking up since 2014. I’m curious about usage 1912-1920 now.
link to books.google.com routes%3B%2Cc0#t1%3B%2Cgrass routes%3B%2Cc0
Gordon Currie
I am not going to argue with your figures as I genuinely do not know if they are correct or not. The GDP figure of $188b may be impressive but not so much if total outgoings exceed that!
However, you simply are stating one side of a possible Independent Scottish Profit & Loss account. You imply that £30 billion more would be available to Scotland. Think of the various costs that Westminster currently pick up for the whole of the UK that an independent Scotland would have to pay for. Things like defence, foreign embassies, HMRC etc. Too many to think about ‘off the cuff but there are a few! England would not pick up Scotland Old Age Pensions forever. I suspect that the supposed £30B ‘surplus’ would rapidly decline if Scotland had to meet out of it’s own income.
I am not saying that Scotland could not afford to do it, but if we can, why are our Government not preparing financials for all to see and shout this from the rooftops?
I have said before and like other realists on here, will say it again, it is all about money. If the 55% of people currently living in Scotland do not want Independence, for whatever reason, they have to be convinced to switch. Maybe if it could be demonstrated that Scotland can afford it, a fair percentage might be inclined to change their views. Although with the financial and economic illiterates in the SNP/Loon coalition this might be difficult given past and recent failings/disasters in spending.
John Main says:
10 June, 2022 at 6:58 pm
@Ruby says:10 June, 2022 at 6:22 pm
“misogynistic, racist”
You got examples to back up these accusations, Ruby?
1. Every post by Andy Ellis addressed to me.
2. Every post by Andy Ellis calling me a schemie.
Re my 7.04pm. comment.
Of course the Britnat shills in here, like to try and paint a picture of Scotland as skint and it relying on English cash, the truth couldn’t be more different in fact England was in dire straits financially prior to the corrupt and forced union, and it had to bride (The Equivalent) Scottish politicians to vote yes to it so that Scotland could take on English debt that it has been paying ever since.
A cash payment, called the Equivalent, given to Scotland, (Those in position who voted yes to the union) nearly £400,000 was used to compensate Scotland for sharing the responsibility for England’s national debt of £18 million.
Fletcher certainly foresaw what was coming.
Scottish patriot Andrew Fletcher of Saltoun, (on the union) Scotland would be more like a conquered province. Moreover, Scottish Members of Parliament would depend on their English counterparts in a Parliament of Great Britain. Worse, ‘it is much easier to corrupt 45 Scots at London, than it is to corrupt 300 at Edinburgh
James Che
Your last post does not make sense……nothing new there!
The rallying call to the 55% who currently do NOT want Independence-‘Why not have a go ourselves.
If we make it worse at least it is our own fault’.
I am sure the 55% will be clamouring to sign up following those words of wisdom, especially with our current SG in charge.
Imagine someone blindfolded you and walked you to an edge of a cliff. The sound of the waves crashing below and wind rushing through your hair. The person said ‘Jump-trust me, it is only a one foot drop to a ledge’. Would you do it?
The union was a corrupt farce from the start and should be negated by the Scottish people immediately.
Commissioners first met to discuss the possibility of a union of parliaments when Queen Anne came to the throne in 1702. In April 1706 she appointed commissioners to formally negotiate a Union of Parliaments. Scotland and England each sent 31 commissioners, mostly members of the nobility. They were hand-picked to ensure a favourable outcome for the Government. Among the Scots, there was just one critical voice, that of the Jacobite George Lockhart of Carnwath.
The real problem is that not enough Scots know their history they are spoon feed in Schools and via the media history of the UK post the 1707 Treaty of Union, this lacking is down to successive Scottish Education secretaries not enforcing the teaching of our own pre-1707 history, and possibly even Scottish history as part of the union from 1707 onwards.
The current treacherous shite in charge of education is the useless idiot Shirley-Anne Sommerville.
O/T I asked the other day if anyone knew who is the latest victim of the Alphabetties whose case is being heard this month.
I think it may be Dave Llewellyn. He is in court on Monday.
Dave attended the Alex Salmond trial, in the public gallery, sitting next to Craig Murray. I expect those two facts are sufficient to warrant COPFS prosecuting him.
Still number one even without trying too hard, Stuart, that says it all!
I do agree with Breeks and others though, as I almost always do, that we should go directly for the jugular and pursue the constitutional route to independence. The Claim of Right trumps ANYTHING that Westminster can throw at us.
And I thought the following quote is quite relevant to Scotland:
“Any country, any nation, any ethnic group must guarantee its sovereignty. There are no intermediate states. Either the country is sovereign or a colony.
“Therefore, if we do not want to be a colony, we will have to work on our sovereignty.”
See you twa gangs who are trolling each other btl, could you not take your comments to Quarantine, which has not been used since September last year, and leave btl on the main threads for input about how to achieve Scottish independence?
link to wingsoverscotland.com
Then if we want to endure the equivalent of plucking eyelashes, we could dip into Quarantine periodically?
Saffron Robe.
Yes that’s our route out of this God awful union.
“Lord Cooper in his summary of McCormack vs The Lord Advocate (1953) pointed out there was no equivalent in Scots law of the English law constitutional practice of “The Crown in Parliament” as the people of Scotland are sovereign – given legal status by the Claim of Right 1689 (which remains “in law”) by which the current Queen was made “Queen of Scots” – and that their considered will is paramount. He argued that at some point in the future, unless this critical constitutional black hole and the series of fudges used to hide it, at the centre of the UK Parliamentary system, were not fully and properly addressed it could lead to the end of the UK Parliamentary Union. This warning was from a person who was a staunch Unionist.
We are now at the point Lord Cooper was concerned about, the future point where the “considered will of the people of Scotland (which remains paramount)” would trump an English law and constitutional practice used to give the UK Government and Parliament overweening powers that have no equivalence in Scots law or constitutional practice, especially as we watch the impact on the unwritten English constitution of being trodden under by a venal and corrupt UK Government, led by a serial liar and psychopath, for whom the law is for other people and not them.”
@ Brian: “…gangs trolling btl… go to Quarantine..”
Oh yes, I vote for that. We really do need to concentrate all our energies on restoring Scotland’s independent status. Everything else is a distraction.
sarah says:
10 June, 2022 at 10:11 pm
@ Brian: “…gangs trolling btl… go to Quarantine..”
Oh yes, I vote for that. We really do need to concentrate all our energies on restoring Scotland’s independent status. Everything else is a distraction.
I don’t see why gangs trolling need to be a distraction. Any reason why you can’t scroll past these ‘gangs trolling’? Is the real reason for your frustration not that there are not enough people concentrating their energies on restoring Scotland’s independent status on this forum or anywhere else for that matter. Is the reason for that perhaps because people do not know how to go about restoring Scotland’s independent status no matter how much energy they devote to the task. That includes those who get paid megabucks to do the job they promised to do.
Why would the discussion about ‘restoring Scotland’s independent status’ have to be on the main thread and not in Quarantine?
This thread is about the number of hits received by Wings in May 2022, about Stu’s new book, the downgrading of Wings web hosting and how the debate about restoring Scotland’s independent status has really slowed down. It has slowed down to such an extent that Wings which has been more or less closed down for nearly a year has overtaken all the other sites that I presume ‘have been concentrating all their energies on restoring Scotland’s independent status’.
There is nothing to suggest that the topic of this thread is about ‘restoring Scotland’s independent status’.
Robin McAlpine nails it.
link to robinmcalpine.org
But many still can’t figure out why ?
The answer is very simple they had to and the reason they had to was because they have to get ready for EU membership.
Every man and his dog knew to be ready for the EU sweeping cuts and privatisations had to be made to comply with the EU treaties.
But as yet nobody has had the courage to come out and say it. Tell the truth.
The SNP are neoliberal globalists who want to drag Scotland into the EU and sell off Scotland’s assets to the rent seekers as that is what EU membership is.
EVERYTHING the SNP has been doing is for EU membership.
The fact that everyone from the left Who opposed EU membership and knew what EU membership meant for Scotland.
Austerity on steroids the slashing of budgets and increased taxes.
Thought all of this was going to happen later if they managed to pass an EU referendum.
It started 4 years ago and there will never be a referendum on the EU. The SNP are going to steamroller everything through.
EVERYTHING they are doing is to make the joining of the EU as straightforward as possible but many can’t connect the dots.
Somebody needs to come out and say it and say it so everyone can hear it.
Robin can explain what’s happening in great detail.
But fails to grasp why it has been happening so quickly.
Robin can explain the betrayal of the Green Party.
But fails to grasp why. The Greens want to be at the heart of Europe also and adore the EU.
This is there main objective nothing else matters.
We will get our independence referendum after everything has been sold off and the budget deficit has been slashed. Why the growth commission was written the way it was.
That has been their plan all along.
Way too many people think the SNP and Greens suddenly turned Tory and u turned on promises.
They didn’t they have systematically been turning EU. Taking guidance from the EU treaties and fiscal rules on any they need to do.
To make it as easy as possible to join.
Which will be a complete and utter disaster for Scotland.
Does Robin MacAlpine’s website not do comments?
That could account for Wings having more hits than Robin MacAlpine.
Depending on whether ‘Gordon Gekko’ has logged in/out between each post that could account for between 1-4 hits for Wings that should have gone to Robin MacAlpine.
Thanks to Andy Ellis nobody will pay too much attention to what I post being that he has informed you how stupid, uneducated & disabled I am but I just thought I would say
It is possible that I have misunderstood how hits are counted and maybe each post counts as a hit.
If so thats +2 for Wings from me.
Gordon Gekko says:
11 June, 2022 at 12:42 am
Which will be a complete and utter disaster for Scotland.
I disagree with you, but I’m still interested to hear why you think that’s so.
I agree, the EU can and has been tough imposing economic constraints on members, but mostly when the EU has been bailing them out, and trying to affect changes which led to the bailout being necessary in the first place. I dislike that whole “model”, and problems should have been addressed much sooner.
I believe some people see Scotland in the EU as the “UK’s version” of Scotland in the EU, apparently an economic basket case with no say over how it’s resources are plundered, and EU membership is seen as all burden, no benefit. I believe that’s profoundly incorrect.
The world is changing. The crystal ball begins to go cloudy as the world contemplates BRICS, the dollar world, and Europe, and unless you’ve hitched your pony to one of this organisations, you will not be in any position to protect yourselves other than becoming introverted and focussed on self isolation. I know about EFTA, but cometh the hour, EFTA is nothing without the EU.
I am not blind to the problems the EU has, and that it has suffered these problems too long, but considering what the EU tries to do, it is mind-numbing in it’s complexity, and the rolls of it’s institutions are not well understood. But in my opinion, it’s all worth fixing.
Not withstanding the economics of Europe, I believe people have become complacent about the EU’s roll has been in pacifying a troubled Europe formerly at continual war. Without focussing on the recent war, which NOBODY has handled at all well, look at the relative lack of animosity in Europe amongst countries which flattened each other and compare that to Eastern Europe where bitter ethnic divisions and hatreds still simmer just beneath the surface. The EU has been a tremendously progressive success story… much to the frustration of warmongers, exceptionalists and imperialists. (I feel the need to drop in the word Brexit about here).
Post Independence, Scotland will be far more progressive in harvesting it’s resources, and Indy Scotland will be looking to sell those resources rather than seeing them stolen. Big swing.
Indy Scotland will see 300 years of begrudged underinvestment reversed, and globally significant resources developed, such as Scapa Flow developed as conduit for a HUGE amount of through trade in and out of Europe, unprecedented investment in renewable resources with Scotland’s wind and wave potential, Hydrogen fuel, and a massive rewilding program which if undertaken properly will invest in cutting edge infrastructure so that Scotland is an Environmental Showcase with a robust tourism based infrastructure installed as an integral part of the rewilding. Communities with Nature Reserves on their doorsteps, whale watching boats and island hopping light aircraft / seaplanes / dirigibles for recreation. The whole epicentre of Scotland will alter.
I believe the whole Highlands and Islands could see a boom in cultural recovery, with realisations that Scotland’s indigenous architecture was much more sophisticated than ever it’s been given credit for. Where else in the world has anybody built such robust dwellings equal to ravages of North Atlantic storms using nothing but what they had available to build with? One more cultural jewel in Scotland’s crown treated like trash in the UK.
Yes, I think it is possible that a ballsy Scotland probably could “do a Norway” and exist as a solo entity and free spirit in the modern world, but I’m not sure whether Scotland would thrive looking inwards upon itself, and I solemnly believe the restructuring of Scotland will be a more rewarding and joyous experience if we embrace the goodwill and friendship of our European neighbours. I cannot get my head around why we wouldn’t.
As I said elsewhere, Scotland could and should be the Istanbul of Western Europe, with the North Sea and GUIK gap functioning as our Bosporus. A beautiful and picturesque hub right at the crossroads of global economic continents, and that could be more valuable to Scotland than either oil or renewables…
Scotland in Europe will not be a weak submissive victim as it is in the UK, it could be Western Europe’s Port Authority and bonded storage facility, and favoured recreation facility, and getting as much whisky, Salmon, lamb, beef and Orkney black pudding down their necks as we can manage to produce.
Europe could come to see Scotland as vital and indispensable, with Scotland’s unique strategic location so long the relatively “exclusive” preserve of the UK (which did nothing to harness it’s potential), and Scotland will be valuable prime “real estate” like a vacant plot on London’s Oxford St…
But it’s imperative that Scotland doesn’t sell out. We invest, we fight to the death to stay in control, keep the ownership Scottish and we play the long game. The prosperity will follow and it won’t stop. DON’T SELL OUT.
Sell NOTHING to hedge funds who care nothing about Scotland. It’s the future for your kids, and their kid’s kids that you’d be selling.
@ Republicofscotland says : 10 June, 2022 at 7:50 pm
“The real problem is that not enough Scots know their history they are spoon feed in Schools and via the media history of the UK post the 1707 Treaty of Union, this lacking is down to successive Scottish Education secretaries not enforcing the teaching of our own pre-1707 history, and possibly even Scottish history as part of the union from 1707 onwards.”
Hong Kong, Japan, Singapore, Switzerland, the list of the finest schools in the world by results and ratings, and their locations, is not hard to find.
So are you saying that it is the teaching of their respective histories that makes these schools such successful and high-achieving establishments, Republic?
I doubt it. In fact, I bet that wasting their pupil’s time with irrelevant 300 YO history would be laughed out the door at any of these places.
@Breeks says 11 June, 2022 at 7:27 am
That’s a wonderfully inspiring fairy story to start off the day. Honestly, I struggled to read to the end, my vision blurred by tears of joy.
The best I can say is that some of it might have been true, around 30 years ago.
“The EU has been a tremendously progressive success story…”
No, it has not. The EU has presided over the decay of Europe as a political and economic force in the world. By embracing the politics of what sounds nice, over the politics of reality, it has fatally weakened itself. Prime examples lie in the realms of energy self-sufficiency and manufacturing pollution reduction. Virtue signalling over nuclear and coal has left the EU in hock to Russia for the balance of energy needed to maintain any kind of industry. Most of that industry has already been exported to China anyways, so that we in the EU could congratulate ourselves on how clean our air and water is and laugh at those bicycling Chinese with their smog masks.
“goodwill and friendship of our European neighbours”
Get real. Governments have interests, not friends. The leader of a country might get moist every time she sees a pipe band, but as a professional politician, she answers to her own country and institutions. She has to keep her obsessive infatuation with pipe bands for her private life.
“Sell NOTHING to hedge funds who care nothing about Scotland. It’s the future for your kids, and their kid’s kids that you’d be selling.”
Bit late for that. Everything in the Highlands & Islands worth selling was sold lang syne. Sold by the local owners who could not believe their luck at the prices offered by the incomers.
Face it, Breeks. All crystal balls clouded over on 24th February. For the foreseeable future, the EU is going to be fully occupied with the precarious fates of the Baltic Republics, Poland and their near neighbours, plus that of Germany, as she struggles to dig her way out of the deep hole that 30 years of poor policies by political genius Angela Merkel has left her in.
Breeks
Inspiring post. I agree wholeheartedly, having worked for 25 years for the free movement of labour in EU member states. Always wilfully misunderstood by the UK (aka English) reps in the EU. There are many other aspects but I do not have time to list them now. But I had to comment on this inspiring vision when all around is so dull, dismal and frankly terrifying.
@Tourette’s Ruby 7.22 pm
“1. Every post by Andy Ellis addressed to me.
2. Every post by Andy Ellis calling me a schemie.”
You’re going to have to explain to alert readers why addressing you is misogynistic Ruby, or why the epithet schemie is racist? Otherwise it just looks like your mouth is issuing cheques your brain can’t cash.
Aren’t those complaining about the EU, and the apparent desire of most Scots to be part of it, missing the point? Most Scots aren’t any more interested in the minutiae of EU politics and policies than they are in pirouetting madly on the head of constitutional pins about 300 year old treaties. They take a pretty general view that they’d rather be in than out, because virtually all of the countries they aspire to emulate are inside the EU, or part of the EEA.
Of course there’s always been a segment of the independence that’s trenchantly anti-EU, just as some are anti-NATO, but they’re a minority. In particular, they’ll be diluted even more by “soft No” converts we need to convince to vote Yes, who will be overwhelmingly middle of the road pro-EU, pro-NATO voters.
The (mostly) hard left proponents of this view are of course quite free to set out their anti-EU, anti-NATO stance, but it’s not a platform that persuades the majority. Those opposed from the political right have even less leverage, as the vast majority of them are never going to support independence anyway.
Main @7.42am.
Scots have lost in most part their sense of identity it has been replaced by “Britishness” whatever that is. Our own culture languages and literature has again in most part been replaced by that of England’s, with no great sense of identity is it any wonder that the Scottish Cringe (mindset) still exists, and all the ailments that comes with it.
Professor Alf Baird better understands the colonial mindset that’s plagued Scotland since this corrupt onesided union was spawned through lies and deceit.
Only by dissolving the union will Scots and Scotland progress its a necessity.
Margaret Eleftheriou says:
11 June, 2022 at 8:36 am
Breeks
Inspiring post. I agree wholeheartedly, having worked for 25 years for the free movement of labour in EU member states.
Thanks Margaret. 😉
That’s me about to head off for Dumfries. Wee bit breezy, but those Saltires are just gonna fly…
Troughing ex-British Royal Marine, now SNP Justice secretary Keith Brown claims war in Falklands was totally justified.
Breeks
Similar to John Main I tried to read your latest post but, I am sorry to say, I struggled to make it to the end. I did hear the violins playing in the background or was it bagpipes?
To realise your pipe dream you do realise that somebody has to get off their backside and put matters in motion. Who do you think that will be? Will it be the collective ‘WE’ that I continually read about in the posts of the romantics and the dreamers. Maybe it will be the remit of The Grand Scottish Assembly you drone on about continually. Or will it all happen by magic?
I will be interested to learn!
Andy Ellis says:
11 June, 2022 at 8:38 am
@Tourette’s Ruby 7.22 pm
“1. Every post by Andy Ellis addressed to me.
2. Every post by Andy Ellis calling me a schemie.”
You’re going to have to explain to alert readers why addressing you is misogynistic Ruby, or why the epithet schemie is racist? Otherwise it just looks like your mouth is issuing cheques your brain can’t cash.
Let alert readers ask me and I’ll tell them. Can I ask you again to follow ‘Missionary Mark’s’ example and just ignore me. Thank you
Breeks says:
11 June, 2022 at 7:27 am
I believe some people see Scotland in the EU as the “UK’s version” of Scotland in the EU, apparently an economic basket case with no say over how it’s resources are plundered, and EU membership is seen as all burden, no benefit. I believe that’s profoundly incorrect.
As always a marvellous and thought provoking post. Thank you. Am I correct in thinking you you meant “UK’s version” of Scotland in the UK?
The big flaw in that belief is that the voters in the EU don’t decide on our government or Prime Minister and we don’t have to ask the EU if we can have a referendum on leaving the EU and be told ‘now is not the time’ ‘you’ve had your referendum’ or some such shit.
That’s two maybe three of the ‘Four Missionaries of the Apocalypse’ Andy, Mark Chas & John pouring cold water on Breek’s brilliant post.
Is this negativity something we Scots have learned from being colonised?
You cannae dae this & ye cannae dae that. That’s all just a pipe dream laddie, yer heeds full o fairy tales. Stop dreamin’ laddie.
9.37 last night I posted a comment which included the name of the country Russia is currently ‘at war’ with, so it went straight into moderation and has remained there since.
The point of the comment was to ask whether or not we are now, in effect, barred from discussing war in Europe. It also reproduced, in full, the comment by Rev on the last thread where he warned that anyone trying to circumvent the insta-moderation by fiddling with the country’s name will be banned.
It’s impossible to know how many other regulars have posted their concerns about this because we can’t know who is in moderation at any given time.
So this is my final effort to comment on a worrying development – if we are to be barred from discussing this, that or whatever else simply because Stu is not impressed with the quality of the comments (and I’m not aware of any WOS editorial line on the war) then we’re no better than WGD and his insistence that we Speak No Ill of Gallus Alice.
One more thing – it’s nice that this place can still lay claim to being ‘the worlds most-read Scottish politics site’. But the actual state of btl on a day-to-day basis is nothing to be proud of. The ease with which a handful of mischiefs have made this space their playground (regardless of topic) is troubling – they’ve been allowed free rein for so long that gratuitous name-slinging has become the norm. And we’ve all long-since learned to be leery of readership stats – after all, if you’re stuck in a dentist’s waiting room for long enough, you’ll end up reading decade-old copies of Scots Magazine. That doesn’t mean the experience is educational or enjoyable.
🙁
Should any alert reader come along and ask me why I consider calling someone a ‘schemie’ is racist they would first have to tell me why being anti-English is racist.
On the morning after the EU Ref I was in my flat in Barcelona , dismayed ( almost ) to the point of tears by the result – a result BTW our great MSM had predicted was wildly unlikely . The memory of that morning will never leave me .
The only glimmer of positivity I could cling to was the thought that now , surely , the case for Independence was inarguable and would be driven home with unflinching determination .
SCOTLAND WOULD NOT BE TAKEN OUT AGAINST IT’S WILL . Our emphatic democratic decision would prevail ……..
Then came the craven , disgusting capitulation by Sturgeon/SNP GOV .
I love Europe and have been fortunate to spend extended periods in some of it’s magnificent cities . I love it’s – often torturous , admittedly , history , it’s intellectual/scientific/artistic achievements , it’s great variety and contrasts . But ….
The EU is not Europe . The EU has become a Neo Liberal fortress , a bureaucratic monolith ,and under the current * leadership * of right wing troll Ursula V D Leyen a conflict – enabling NATO lapdog and enthusiastic Globalist top-down Elite Club .
Scotland becoming a member Post Independence is NOT a deal-breaker for me , though it should not be an implicit assumption that we would : it should be put to the people to decide .Personally , I’m now much more ambivalent about membership
In it’s defence , there are still good people around , trying to make the EU come closer to it’s founding ideals ( yes , I know it has * evolved * significantly from it’s original incarnation as a purely trade-based enterprise ; still , everything changes with time ) as a – ahem ….Progressive force for fiscal and social justice . The group formed by Yanis Varoufakis and others offer a more enlightened vision of what the EU could – and should , be . Alas , it seems to be moving in the opposite direction .
Chas says:
11 June, 2022 at 10:18 am
Breeks
Similar to John Main I tried to read your latest post but, I am sorry to say, I struggled to make it to the end. I did hear the violins playing in the background or was it bagpipes?
To realise your pipe dream you do realise that somebody has to get off their backside and put matters in motion. Who do you think that will be? Will it be the collective ‘WE’ that I continually read about in the posts of the romantics and the dreamers. Maybe it will be the remit of The Grand Scottish Assembly you drone on about continually. Or will it all happen by magic?
I will be interested to learn!
All they need to do is drap the Fairy Flag over the Stone of Destiny, join hands in a circle around it with their imaginary friends, click their heels together while repeating “Grass Routes … Grass Routes …” and with a puff of smoke and twinkly clàrsach notes, the wicked Sturgeon will be cast back into Loch Ness forevermore.
Scotland will be instantly free, all potholes filled, all trains on time, and Molly Weir will rise from the dead to captain our nation to victory in the World Cup and the Olympics – all to happen within the first year in a Vow printed in The National.
Ruby @ 11:28 am
Is this negativity something we Scots have learned from being colonised?
The main purpose of the colonizer is always “to make liberation seem impossible for the colonized” (Fanon).
Thanks Breeks – I stopped reading Negativity Inc.a long time ago.
Depressed by events as I am, I need no help to mourn the inactivity and the missed opportunities facing my country and I need folk who help me to remember that ‘as long as a hundred of us etc.etc………’
The Hitler supporting Non Dom Daily Hail today condemning
SNP and Greens for stick by EU rules not to use Frankenstein Gene modified foods.
Westminster apparently is worried about starving us Scots so wanted to help us with Frankenstein crops were all 3 of your grand children’s ears should hear alright.
Next, if Boris is so bad why isn’t Nicola, SNP or Independence backing going up?
God knows how much time and money is being put into political lies and distortions shared by the U.K. media to dazzle the dumb to keep it that way.
This one is a beauty, refugee who landed in Rwanda tells how wonderful the place is?
FFS.
A bit like the young Tory girl they dug out to say how jolly her Zero hours contract is.
Everyone could use them and not know if they are working this week, be able to pay any bills, get a loan or any chance of a mortgage or even eat.
Who needs money, security, food or heating when we have all the benefits of Dickensian London on tap thanks to team Boris.
Who would risk breaking away and aiming for anything else?
Ian Brotherhood says:
11 June, 2022 at 11:38 am
One more thing – it’s nice that this place can still lay claim to being ‘the worlds most-read Scottish politics site’. But the actual state of btl on a day-to-day basis is nothing to be proud of. The ease with which a handful of mischiefs have made this space their playground (regardless of topic) is troubling – they’ve been allowed free rein for so long that gratuitous name-slinging has become the norm. And we’ve all long-since learned to be leery of readership stats – after all, if you’re stuck in a dentist’s waiting room for long enough, you’ll end up reading decade-old copies of Scots Magazine. That doesn’t mean the experience is educational or enjoyable.
?
Ian, I’ve done time as a board admin, and what’s happened here is exactly what to expect when you have an owner who is only interested in the “drive for growth” and cares nary two hoots (or no longer cares) how that’s achieved or the longer term impact.
Whether music, computer games, politics, sport – anything that can be a topic for discussion – you will always get ones trying to “take it over” (and usually running up an “enemies list” in double quick time) with the inevitable friction that causes. If there’s no will from those in charge to maintain a happy “broad church”, the normal people get bored and leave ‘cos life’s too short.
The same scenarios happens in real life with local clubs or voluntary groups, which are always a target for someone budding Napoleon or Hermione Granger type wanting to compensate for thwarted career or family aspirations. Been there too often to let it phase me anymore – all you can do is stick it out and see if things change, or as I have done on here before, start rationing visits for the sake of one’s will to live.
The change of the message in the people independence march is good to see,
hey main, google is your (only?) friend : bang in
tinder date murder trans
– there’s going to be a lot more of this.
To re-use the revs own words moderation is now “a fucking binfire” as well as a black hole out of which nothing ever returns. Alas, changing a few words and reposting also gets you in trouble.
Gecko, I remember from a while ago, he makes sorta serious economic points which are not all that when you read them.
It’s an old “trope” (been hate-reading that gaurdian too much) from unionnists that the “EU is a terrible thing” (compared to what).
But it is not worse than the UK – that’s like comparing eczema to pancreatic cancer. The EU has a lot of problems, which is why most folks here would be talking EFTA. The main problem is its slavish, craven kowtowing to everything america wants, but its spinelessness is also its strength – you can tell it to fuck off and what will it do, put tariffs on you? Orban gives them the finger for fun, almost a form of high level trolling.
A study of “dysfunctional political unions” would be a good topic for a thesis; a certain austrian painters life actions were heavily dictated(!) by his hatred of the Austro-Hungarian empire – bloody slavs!
My mother used to say “If you haven’t got anything pleasant or constructive to say, don’t say anything”.
@ Dorothy Devine: I too feel the need to keep in touch with others who are burning to see Scotland restored to normal nationhood. I am sure there are more than a hundred of us!
@Ian Brotherhood 11.38am
“So this is my final effort to comment on a worrying development – if we are to be barred from discussing this, that or whatever else simply because Stu is not impressed with the quality of the comments (and I’m not aware of any WOS editorial line on the war) then we’re no better than WGD and his insistence that we Speak No Ill of Gallus Alice.”
Really? That’s your take on what’s happening? I think it shows a certain lack of perspective to equate this place to WGD. Rev Stu has a history if anything of being lenient – perhaps over lenient in the eyes of some – to posters many contributors found exceptionally irritating like the late unlamented Cameron Brodie. There was considerable discussion about it at the time going back a year or so. I remember well some folk saying it didn’t bother them, and he should simply be ignored or scrolled past, but eventually he was banned for his constant off topic spamming.
I suspect the only thing that has saved “gregor” going the same way is that he regurgitates his links on past threads. Why anyone – including Rev Stu IMHO – would think his contributions are either relevant or welcome is beyond me, but in the end it’s Stu’s decision: his site, his rules.
I think it’s disingenuous however to try and equate WoS with WGD with respect to their comparative approach to contentious issues, or indeed to people who post stuff which the site owner disagrees with. We all know for example that Rev Stu fundamentally disagrees with the nativist franchise restriction proposals which are so popular amongst some of the usual suspects in here. However he’s not stopped those people promoting their views BTL here, or arguing with others who share his view. That wouldn’t happen on WGD, nor indeed on many other pro-independence bloggers who won’t tolerate any dissenting views on their hobby horse issues in BTL comments on their blogs: Ian Lawson is a prime example.
“But the actual state of btl on a day-to-day basis is nothing to be proud of. The ease with which a handful of mischiefs have made this space their playground (regardless of topic) is troubling – they’ve been allowed free rein for so long that gratuitous name-slinging has become the norm.”
I don’t ever recall this place being particularly decorous or full of pearl clutching matrons who have an attack of the vapours if someone looks at them sideways or uses a rude word. The voices of certain regular contributors may seem amplified because these days we don’t have almost daily posts with several hundred contributions on each: we get irregular and infrequent posts with a similar number of posts over weeks rather than days.
The site may still be the most popular pro-independence blog in terms of hits and/or readership, but the number and breadth of people contributing is much smaller, so moonhowlers whose voices used to be diluted are now amplified. It’s sad, but there it is. I know a lot of them get triggered by being called out for being labelled moonhowlers, but…well, the truth hurts, eh?
These folk, and many of the positions they promote are not only on the fringe politically, they are held by only small minorities of the movement. Often they are so extreme that pose a clear and present danger to the success of the movement by making it look like a refuge for cranks, QAnon type conspiracy theorists and regressive policies that can only serve to scare the “soft No” horses and diminish the chances of constructing a pro-indy majority.
The difference between this place and others Ian, is that in here Stu gives these folk a platform. They’re not being silenced, or banned as they would in a nano second on most other forums. Sure, he can bite back and ban particular words or phrases – or less often individuals – when he thinks things have gone too far. He’s not tone policing comments generally or in great detail. They may in general not meet your rarified standards of debate, but so what….? Nobody forces you to read or interact.
Threads in here have never stuck religiously to the posted topic for that long: they frequently went, and still go, wildly off piste. The fact that you personally may not be interested in the diversion is beside the point: if others are interested and engage, so what? Unless Rev Stu intervenes or voices his displeasure, what is it you want to see happening exactly? Your “de haut en bas” disapproval doesn’t seem to be harming the sites traffic figures relative to the other available alternatives.
Maybe, just maybe, those folk are just more clued up than you?
Hands up for those who think Sturgeon and her cabal will protect Scots from the English government imposing Frankenstein foods on us, no..me neither.
For Sturgeon the betrayer and her clique didn’t protect us from Brexit even though she promised she would. The next AUOB march should focus on showing Sturgeon’s lies and failing to get her out, instead of happy clappy flag waving marches that are ignored by the SNP government and the media we help fund. Yes the Sturgeon and the media would still ignore them but the public would see her treachery and failings and begin to wonder.
“A BILL that would ease regulations around gene editing in the food sector should not “force products on Scotland”, a minister has said.
The Genetic Technology (Precision Breeding) Bill was introduced earlier this month at Westminster and would create a separate regulatory category for gene editing – a practice which can change traits within a plant or animal much more quickly than traditional selective breeding.
Officials and scientists draw a distinction between gene editing, which involves the manipulation of genes within a single species or genus, and genetic modification (GM), in which DNA from one species is introduced to another.”
Ian Britherhood @11.38am.
Ian the Rev has barred all comments on it under threat of banning so don’t mention either country.
This is a heads up incase the Britnat shill Agent Ellis tries to goad you into mentioning the countries.
Well, that’s that done. Numbers difficult to judge… couple of thousand, but that’s just a stab at it. An awful lot smaller than the last one. Could have been more, but can’t see it being less.
It’s difficult to give yourself a lift when it feels like your own “leadership” doesn’t think it’s worth the bother, but it’s gotta be done. Another salute to the YES bikers.
I wonder about an AUOB March to Bute House… Not sure. A great idea one way, but with the anger being felt, could turn nasty.
Minor curiosity? I found a wallet and handed it to the cops, but the first cops I tried weren’t local. Didn’t want the wallet, and pointed me to the local cops. Don’t get me wrong, they weren’t ugly looking riot squad cops or anything, maybe just not Dumfries, but for a YES March? I thought a couple of cops and a lollipop man would do, but there are out-of-town cops drafted in. Who knew?
@ Breeks: thanks for going to the Dumfries march. It is good to have an impartial witness at these events to give an idea of numbers attending etc.
OMG. The Orange Walk is massive.
It’s bloody torture!
Republic of Scotland 1.58 and Ian Brotherhood 11.38.
I too have had a number of posts put straight into moderation for commenting on international matters. Comments that I thought were fair and well considered they never emerged from moderation.
And so as a test I made a one line post saying absolutely nothing and it was hosted. I then seconds later made a one line post simply mentioning a country and it instantly went into moderation never to reappear.
And so Wings is being censored. Whether it is on the direction of Rev Stu or whether the security services are intervening I leave it to readers to decide.
Interesting comment on non local policing,
I have heard this is the case in other parts of Britain also.
Some of the marches that were in london over the last few years mentioned non local police in their area,
So whom are these police, whom pays them,
link to archive.ph
The event today is being staged to mark the Queen’s Platinum Jubilee, the committee was told.
Ruby @2.42pm.
I’m sure some of these bands of hate are from Northern Ireland such as the Derry Boys, Scotland is just as f*cked as NI when it comes to sectarian division, divide and conquer as they say, anyway a ex-head of the O/O was elected as a Labour councillor in either Ayrshire or Lanarkshire recently.
Scotland is so f*cked by this sectarian shite that I recall the one time head of the DUP Arlene Foster heading up an orange march in I think it was Cowdenbeath.
The Dumfries AUOB March and the report of imported police from elsewhere.
I wonder how long it will be before the Police turn to ransack March organisers homes and to arrest them on some trumped up spurious allegations of administration infringement.
Police intimidation, concocted charges, and political bias are all part of the absolutely rotten and corrupt political police force that is Police Scotland. And corporate crime, just look at the protection given to the corporate raiders. Pension fund raids, financial misreporting on enormous scales, huge corporate bankruptcies, offshore tax avoidance for the establishment, and no one ever gets charged. But the little folk, well they do for the slightest things – and the Police enthusiasm during lock down to enter houses, stop cars, pursue certain MPs like Margaret Ferrier whilst the big cats run free is but another example.
No decent citizen can have any trust in the Police – and I sadly say that as an individual who many years ago received a commendation for going to the aid of an officer in distress.
I doubt if I would do that now such is the distrust I have in the police. They are corrupt to the core.
In the past the coloued walk were against an independent Scotland,
But when they , along with the rest of us have to pay higher prices at the petrol station,
are paying higher prices for heating their homes with the rest of us,
Are paying higher prices for food along with the rest of us,
When they receive one of the lowest pensions in europe along with the rest of us.
When their businesses fold due to economical down turn the same as ours,
When they realise that inheritence tax will effect some of their of spring, the same as the rest of us,
Etc
They will not be long in realising their is no special treatment from rushi in london for supporting a union,
They will be taxed the same as the rest of us.
Economy will be a leveller across Britain within the next year or two,
Ian B., I do agree with you to some extent. Censorship is never the answer. What might be more constructive would be to ban those who continually break Stuart’s own rules against name-calling and playing the man/woman not the ball.
James Che @ 2:54 pm
They won’t care…
Saffron Robe says:
11 June, 2022 at 2:55 pm
Ian B., I do agree with you to some extent. Censorship is never the answer. What might be more constructive would be to ban those who continually break Stuart’s own rules against name-calling and playing the man/woman not the ball.
I don’t think name calling was the problem. I think what you have here is a case of few spoiling it for the many ie two posters deciding to have a pissing contest over the same topic non stop 24/7 over a period of weeks. Had the Rev not intervened that pissing contest would have still been going on. Perhaps the Rev is hoping to get enjoyment/info from the comments and gets very disappointed if all he gets is the same two trying to prove who has the biggest willie over a topic he can read about in the MSM & the Grayzone.
Maybe the solution is we all need to be less selfish & consider Stu when making a post. What else is Stu getting from leaving this website open for us to comment?
Maybe it’s our turn to give back to Stu and help him in any way we can to complete his book. Have something interesting for the guy to read when he decides to take a break from writing and pops onto to Wings.
A lot of folk seem to think that the deteriorating economic situation is going to deliver a sea change in attitudes amongst Scottish voters and somehow force the pace of change. I’m not sure recent history supports that view. If being pulled out of the EU against our will, the British nationalist elite’s handling of the pandemic, and the continued disdain they exhibit towards the Scottish Government and its electors, hasn’t been enough to move the polls, what makes folk think increasing economic hardship will do it?
Are folk really envisaging a Scottish “La Diada” with a few million on the streets, and a bow wave of support to establish a National Assembly to bypass indyref2 or plebiscitary elections in the near future?
Craig Murray posted recently the time is now, but I’m still not seeing any stirrings of the sovereign Scottish people storming Bute House yet. Given the experience of the past 8 years, isn’t it more likely that electors will just wait until the next elections – whether Westminster or Holyrood – to punish the SNP for failing to deliver on indyref2, whether Sturgeon issues her blueprint next week or not?
There was an huge Orange Walk in Edinburgh today. It went on for bloody hours. It was absolutely torture. Very loud banging drums very similar to constant gun fire with some tinkling flutes in the background. You’ll have seen footage of ‘Operation Shock and Awe’ it was very similar without the option to turn down the volume.
This was a special Orange Walk to celebrate the bloody jubilee. They all had new uniforms for the occasion & the ladies were very dressed up as if they were going to the Queens Garden Party or attending a Pride March.
I couldn’t stand to watch much of it so I didn’t notice if there were many police local or otherwise.
Tonight there’s the ‘Moon Walk’ so that should be interesting especially if the Orange boys having celebrated their successful jubilee march hang around to cheer on the Moon Walkers.
There must be a joke in there somewhere about ‘Moonhowlers’.
PS Can you get valium or mogadon without a prescription?
When pockets and bank balances become empty every one cares.
Alf Baird.
I dont know if you read this amusing piece in the guardian on the 10thof June 2022.
According to the BBC, 10th june 2022,
The Cairngorms is one of UKs largest National Parks.
A new five year plan has been submitted to the Scottish Government.
Just a wee reminder,
Who owns Scotland.
Ruby @ 3:59 pm
“PS Can you get valium or mogadon without a prescription?”
Postcolonial theory tells us that a “colonized society is a diseased society” (Albert Memmi). In this we see a “mummification of the colonized society”. Some natives may even celebrate their oppression/oppressor, and rebuke other natives for seeking liberation from the ‘superior’ imperial order. Such is the effect of internalized racism and what is known as “the colonial mindset”.
The cure? “The liquidation of colonization is nothing but a prelude to complete liberation, to self-recovery (and) in order to free himself from colonization, the colonized must start with his oppression, the deficiencies of his group.”
link to yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com
“Which will be a complete and utter disaster for Scotland.
I disagree with you, but I’m still interested to hear why you think that’s so.”
Very simple. Currency and economics.
They all use a foreign currency so no different to Scotland London.
Brussels sets the budgets via their treaties and they are entrenched in neoliberalism. Their fiscal rules.
A true sovereign nation shouldn’t be hamstrung like that.
All you need to do is read these
link to ec.europa.eu
That is not independence.
You have to borrow or raise taxes before you can spend.
Which is not the case if you are sovereign with your own currency. Scotland should create its own currency.
link to newstatesman.com
On the pros and cons of EU membership, even the most starry eyed believer in constitutional cunning plans would presumably agree that it’s going to take some time for Scotland to achieve independence given where we are with the entrenched devolutionists in the SNP and their current stranglehold on power. Even assuming there is some climactic political / economic crisis due to the current war, realistically we’re still talking about a minimum of a few years, and possibly more if we have to wait until plebiscitary elections in 2026, then a negotiated split.
When we DO finally achieve independence, we’ll be outside the EU. It will then be up to the first post independence government to set out its stall on what directions we should take: do we join EFTA and the EEA in the first instance, apply for EU membership ASAP, call for a Yes/No referendum to decide if Scots want to join, or leave it to a decision by parliament based on election platforms setting out what the different parties want to see?
A lot can happen between now and then of course, but is it realistic to think that the overwhelming majority who are in favour of full EU membership now are suddenly going to have a change of heart in what are likely to be more uncertain times? Disassociating ourselves from the failed British nationalist project will be no easy task in itself: are Scots going to want to “do a Norway”, or seek the relative security of being part of the EU?
Scotland being hammered by Ireland at Football.
One of the worst ever performances I’ve seen at that’s saying something.
I don’t know who would do better but on the last 3 matches it’s fair to say the manager has failed and is going backwards.
3-0 so far but Ireland are looking for goals and Scotland the flight home
Effigy
Aye just awful.
But again Scots have to pay to see their national side while England is always shown on ITV or BBC and tonight’s England game is advertised on Ch4 as” live and FREE”. There is a political agenda here.
No other country would ever tolerate this.
@Andy Ellis 6:08
Is it accurate to say that an “overwhelming majority” of Scots (or of people resident in Scotland – but let’s not split hairs) are in favour of full EU membership?
I’ll concede a majority, but an overwhelming one?
Seems strange to me to be so much in favour of joining the EU, when nobody knows the T’s and C’s on which Scotland would be accepted. Although one thing is a dead cert, the joining conditions won’t be anything like as advantageous as they were before.
As a few sour-grapes comments have already clarified (Republic, for one), the sight of the EU finallying growing a pair in response to the war on its borders is already too much for some former enthusiasts. Just how much further will pro-EU enthusiasm slide if the Baltic Republics are invaded?
An Independent Scotland, outside of the EU, will have some control over the numbers of refugees we accept. That will undoubtedly sway a few opinions.
In summary, we are out of the EU, and despite what we were told beforehand, the sky has not fallen in. Meantime, the EU is looking a less attractive proposition by the day. People are noticing. Inevitably, some people will be re-evaluating long-held views.
Gordon G 5:34
Correct. The Euro is the Deutschmark rebranded. Fiscal policy in the Eurozone is first and foremost aimed at maintaining the Euro at a level that favours German exports.
How could it be otherwise when Germany is the economic power house?
Smaller countries are thrown to the wolves in support of this aim. Think Greece.
An Independent Scotland must have its own currency.
@Ruby 3:29
“I don’t think name calling was the problem”
I’m betting you are desperately praying, all fingers crossed, that name calling wasn’t the problem.
Cos if it was . . .
Thanks to those who responded to my 11.38.
Unfortunately, my 9.37 from last night remains in moderation, and unseeable. It was a direct question to rev Stu, and he’s chosen to ignore it.
Fair enough.
Many of us were attracted to this place, and stuck with it for many years, because Stu has a knack of facing up to unpleasant facts. That he managed to do so in the face of at-times vicious criticism and personal attacks from the Scottish and UK establishments just made us all the more determined to see this place succeed.
But we all have to draw a line somewhere. For me, it’s been the aversion to anything ‘covid’-related, and now, the sinister silence over war. There are many unionists and SNP diehards who genuinely hate Stuart Campbell because they view him as a dangerous free thinker who can ‘radicalise’ otherwise moderate independence supporters. And they’re right to fear him. But Stu can’t be all things to all people. It seems that he too draws a line when it comes to dealing with topics which smack of ‘conspiracy’.
For many of us, the data has been in for a long time when it comes to ‘the bug’, and the sheer scale of anti-Putin propaganda should have set off alarm bells in most rational minds within weeks of the initial ‘invasion’.
Do you know how much Russians are paying for their unleaded? Any idea? Try 68 euro cents. And approx 70 for diesel. How much did you pay at the pump today? How many neighbours do you have with blue and yellow flegs in their gardens, windows, or Twitter avatars?
In the past decade it has never – not even once – crossed my mind to abandon this place because of something that Rev Stu wrote, even though he’s written plenty of stuff with which I couldn’t agree. But I never imagined that I would leave because of censorship. And that’s what’s happening.
‘Disappointed’ doesn’t even start to cover it.
🙁
“But I never imagined that I would leave because of censorship. And that’s what’s happening.”
The words “Ukraine” and “Putin” got added to the filter because people were incapable of debating the subject without turning into arseholes and I’m not manually moderating the damn place full time. If folk start to behave they’ll be taken out again.
Dear Stu,
My comment at 8.18 has also gone into ‘pre-moderation’.
Given that it’s probably my final comment in this place, I would be very grateful if it could be ‘passed’, and published.
Thanks, and good luck.
😉
Rev Stu, I’ve followed you from the start and we clearly need your expertise “going forward” – couldn’t resist – “now is not the time” – to step back. Constancy to Purpose.If you really want to achieve an objective quitting cannot be an option.Fatigue, fed-up-ness are factors to be tolerated.
Sturgeon’s 2013 referendum will be set in terms designed to fail. The terms will need analysis. The Claim of Right initiative needs exposure. – and you are the very guy.
John Main says:
11 June, 2022 at 7:17 pm
@Ruby 3:29
“I don’t think name calling was the problem”
I’m betting you are desperately praying, all fingers crossed, that name calling wasn’t the problem.
Cos if it was . . .
Cos if it were . . . you & the ‘Four Missionaries of the Apocalypse’ Andy Mark Chas & John would have more than your fingers crossed.
Not trying to make out that you are holier than thou and that you have never referred to someone as pubes or crap are you now Missionary John?
If we were to join the EU it didn’t work out we could have an EU referendum without having to ask the EU’S permission.
I liked the free movement of travel & I thought that was particularly good for Scotland with our aging population problem & also because it gave young people in Scotland an opportunity to broaden their horizons without any complications.
I particularly liked the EU because I felt it protected us from human rights abuse etc by Westminster. No idea if we are or aren’t not still in the ECHR but the thought of that lot in Westminster making decisions about our human rights is pretty scary likewise the psychos we now have in control at Holyrood.
Was the reason the UK voted to leave the EU not because one section of the population were against free movement of labour & another section because they liked free movement of their money?
@John Main 7.02 pm
I’d be pretty confident that when push comes to shove you’ll still see around 2/3 of those who will have the vote (did you see what I de there? 🙂 ) supporting EU membership, though granted I haven’t seen any recent polling. I don’t think there will have been any huge shifts, but it’s possible I suppose? You might even find that given recent events in….a place that may not be named….that the number may have gone up. I’d say 2/3 is recognised fairly widely as overwhelming in the context of a vote.
Nobody knows what the terms will be for any eventual membership of course, you’re right. But there again, if they’re not to the liking of the Scottish people or their government they can choose another option. I think pro EU sentiment is more likely to rise than fall: there will be a premium on the safety of the group, which will far outweigh the issues a small minority might have with the EU finally growing a pair. Do you really think a piece of work like RoS is representative of anything but a tiny minority?
The Baltic Republics aren’t going to be invaded: it’d be suicidal for our eastern friends. I also doubt there are many votes in the grand scheme of things in pnadering to the anti immigrant vote in Scotland, though it’ll appeal to the nativists no doubt.
I sense you’re not an EU fan, but the plain fact is a large – even if not overwhelming – majority of Scots probably still are. The sky may not have fallen in for the shambolic britnat state post brexit, but I reckon most Scots are still convinced we’d be better off if it had never happened, or if we’d been given the chance of a Northern Ireland style special deal.
I agree some will be re-evaluating their views. Perhaps coming storms will accelerate that. I think your assertion about the EU being less attractive by the day is just that though….assertion. For all we know what’s happening recently could be a new beginning for the EU. Hungary excepted the organisation seems to have been somewhat re-invigorated by recent joint actions. I’d certainly sooner put my faith in the EU than Westminster, or indeed the good graces of a Sturgeon led Scotland.
I suppose if you are totally against dual nationality you will be against free movement of travel/an EU passport which wraps up 27 different nationalities in one neat package.
Ruby says:
11 June, 2022 at 9:42 pm
I suppose if you are totally against dual nationality you will be against free movement of travel/an EU passport which wraps up 27 different nationalities in one neat package.
I’m being pedantic, (though I believe it’s true), but you cannot have dual Nationality, because Nationality is determined by your place of birth. You can have what is called dual nationality, but one of those nationalities is technically a citizenship earned by criteria apart from where you are born.
EU citizenship doesn’t give you 27 Nationalities, it allows people from 27 Nations to enjoy the rights of common citizenship. It’s a citizenship earned by criteria that is different than from where they were born.
So in domestic affairs, local elections, all citizens can expect a vote. Thus a Frenchman living in Germany can vote for his mayor. But in Constitutional matters, non-domestic affairs with international ramifications, the Vote should go to Nationals. So your Frenchman living in Germany shouldn’t get to vote if Germany wanted to leave the EU.
A Constitutional franchise could include some citizenships, but that’s their Nation’s prerogative. There’s a difference between citizenship for merely living in a place, and citizenship when for example someone has clearly made an unequivocally permanent decision to live in an adopted country, and this is where a period of residency kicks in. The UK’s EU Nationals didn’t get to vote for Brexit.
Again, citizenship by residency is still the Nation’s prerogative to determine, but logically, it should exclude second home owners, students, visitors, and short or temporary residence. Interesting that UK nationals in Europe have just lost the right to vote in local elections. It’s the nation’s prerogative.
Nationals, even Nationals living abroad, should qualify for a vote through Nationality, but I would prefer to see a condition whereby they had to collect their voting papers through a Scottish postal address or turn up in person to vote. If citizenship can be qualified for by commitment to stay in a Nation, there’s a logic which suggests nationality might equally be disqualified by the same commitment made to staying in a different Nation.
I would say Scottish nationals born here but living outside Scotland permanently would have the right to vote, but they’d maybe have to come here to do it. Postal ballots should only have Scottish postal addresses. But that should be Scotland’s prerogative to decide.
When you begin to look more closely, Scotland’s Referendum franchise in 2014 was utterly ridiculous. Scotland’s Constitutional illiteracy writ large again, with the Scotland Act fraudulently masquerading as Scotland’s Constitution. The only thing gold standard was the quality of the unconstitutional con played on Scotland’s people.
Tony Blair the War Criminal is being knighted tomorrow.
uh-oh what have I triggered?
I think we might be heading for another ‘pissing contest’ re the franchise.
Expect to see the term ‘moonhowlers’ being used a lot.
Anyone know how things went in ‘The Moonwalk’ Just wondering of any of the million of Orange boys joined in and turned it into an ‘Orange Moon Walk’
@Breeks 6.43 am
1) “I’m being pedantic, (though I believe it’s true), but you cannot have dual Nationality, because Nationality is determined by your place of birth.”
You’re being wrong, not pedantic. The majority of countries allow dual nationality. Some, including several in the EU, place restrictions on people holding “other” nationalities.
2) “Interesting that UK nationals in Europe have just lost the right to vote in local elections. It’s the nation’s prerogative.”
That’s what independent nations can do. They can make decisions regarding franchises and citizenship. Scotland isn’t an independent state yet, thus it follows the regulations set by the UK. You’re not comparing like with like in your discussion of the franchises used and regulations for voting in already independent states, and the franchises and regulations used for self determination referendums. They are two different things.
3) “Nationals, even Nationals living abroad, should qualify for a vote through Nationality, but I would prefer to see a condition….”
The logic of the nativist position – particularly the extreme nativist position that ONLY those born in Scotland should be eligible – is indeed that the hundreds of thousands of Scots born people in the diaspora should be offered the opportunity to vote. The (abortive) Catalan independence referendum of 2017 offered Catalans abroad the opportunity to register for a vote, though in practice relatively few did so.
I suspect your “additional” conditions are designed to effectively reduce the number of Scots in the diaspora who actually qualify and vote, because you know fine well that the chances are large numbers – probably the majority particularly in the rest of the UK – are solidly unionist in outlook.
You can’t have your cake and eat it: if you’re using ethnic / blood right (jus sanguis) arguments to exclude non-Scots who may have been resident in Scotland for decades or most of their lives, you can’t randomly exclude hundreds of thousands who WILL qualify for Scottish citizenship after independence on the grounds they’re not committed enough and stay in a different nation.
3) “When you begin to look more closely, Scotland’s Referendum franchise in 2014 was utterly ridiculous.”
No it wasn’t. It was widely accepted and applauded at the time. The movement was and largely remains behind the 2014 precedent. Most importantly however, what you and others are suggesting is decidedly out of step with constitutional and historical precedent. The nativist changes being proposed would make any future referendum an outlier among the dozens of self determination votes since WW2.
That in itself would cause consternation internationally and probably impact the chances of recognition, particularly as cases of what the international community regards as “internal self determination” like Scotland, Quebec and Catalonia, are not seen in the same light as cases like Kosovo, Timor L’Este and others where violence, repression and / or ethnic cleansing is involved, or where it is squarely a. matter of de-colonisation.
Of course, that is why Alf Baird and others are punting the “Scotland as colony” narrative. If the international community accepted that classification, then different rules would apply. Sadly for what passes for their case, the UN and international community does not accept the argument that self determination for Scotland is a genuine case of de-colonisation.
The inclusive, residence based franchise used in 2014, far from being “utterly ridiculous” as you described it, is the international and historic norm for such votes. It is thus eminently defensible, and the only one likely to be accepted internationally and domestically. Moving away from it and moving the goalposts because we didn’t like the result last time remains a regressive and politically risky proposition: it is both morally and politically wrong.
Scottish link to archive.ph
Police unable to explain sickening surge in Scottish voyeurism crimes
How about discussing this? Anyone interested?
‘Liberal Democrat MSP Liam McArthur said he was concerned by the rise in offences: “I have previously revealed the low rates of upskirting prosecutions in Scotland since the law was introduced 12 years ago.’
Is this all Liam McArthur is concerned about. No mention of voyeurism in ladies changing rooms. Will that not be a crime? Does self-id give the voyeurist carte blanche to ‘voir’ without being charged?
What about ‘upkilting’ is that a crime or not?
I have witnessed ‘upkilting’ on a couple of occasions.
I think it could be described as ‘gang upkilting’
What these gangs of upkilters (all true scotsmen wearing kilts as part of their uniform) did was take a women’s cameras/phones and pass them around under the table taking ‘upkilt’ photos.
Result woman had series of ‘upkilt’ photos on her camera/phone.
Anyone witness *women taking ‘upkilt’ photos? I’m sure it happens but does it bother men or are they flattered?
*women = the old fashioned ones with wombs.
” I think we might be heading for another ‘pissing contest’ re the franchise. ”
At this point any discussion about future IndyRef franchises is on the same level of abstraction as a future IndyRef itself .
What we can assume with a fair degree of certainty is – if the abstract becomes concrete and IndyRef Vol 2 occurs under Sturgeon ( god , please , don’t let it ) the franchise will be open to anyone who ever bought , or even listened to a Rod Stewart album : no , wait a minute , he’s a man ! ok , anyone who ever bought/listened to a Susan Boyle record .
Maybe they could organise a Scotland v England game the same day as the Non-Binary Ref , set-up wee booths outside Hampden Park and anyone who fancied it could have a say on Jockland’s Future
To appease those troublesome * Nativists * a 12 hour residency requirement could be applied . A model of Progressive Democracy that would be an exemplar of how putting others’ interests before your own is a good a noble thing
Sounds pretty legit , eh ?
@Robert Hughes 9.39 am
Again with the straw manning. It’s the usual nativist MO: bereft of any actual counter arguments they resort to ridiculous hysteria that anyone who ever flew over Scotland will automatically have the vote.
The franchise used in 2014 is the norm for self determination referendums. No amount of inchoate screeching that “we wuz robbed” is going to change that, nor will it help what passes your case to radically change the accepted franchise.
As Rev Stu rightly pointed out last year, the case is largely moot at this point as there’s no realistic prospect of indyref2 happening any time soon. The optics of nativists advocating for 20% of voters in Scotland to lose their votes because the majority of non-native Scots votes No in 2014 are truly awful however.
You and others may not see that or particularly care, but many others in the independence movement do care, and more importantly those you are relying on in the international community to recognise our independence care. Facts, eh?
Robert H , perfect ! Let’s let every Tom ,Dick ( plenty of them!) and Harriet vote on our future.
I am fairly sure that any other country would have restrictions on such big issues and impose real security on the voters , counting and observation – though some tell me , nay insist , that I am wrong and every blaggard and their aunty should stick their nose into our affairs.
@Ruby 8:55 pm
“You and the 4 …”
You seeing double, Ruby? Even for a Saturday night, it’s surely a bit early.
Just between you and me, is it only me you count twice?
Andy Ellis must type at the speed of light or he has all these ‘essays’ all ready to go as soon as someone mentions franchise, covid, the war.
Anyone think the word ‘franchise/moonhwlers’ might be heading for the sandbox?
How many born and bred Scots were denied a vote in the 2014 referendum because they were working outwith Scotland at that time?
I personally know of two. Myself and my wife. I think there may have been others!
Why were they denied a vote? Because the SNP thought they would be more inclined to vote NO.
If the Scottish Government, in any future referendum, try and ‘manipulate’ the vote they deserve to lose.
John Main says:
12 June, 2022 at 10:00 am
@Ruby 8:55 pm
“You and the 4 …”
You seeing double, Ruby? Even for a Saturday night, it’s surely a bit early.
Just between you and me, is it only me you count twice?
No idea what you are talking about however I will apologise and ask for forgiveness.
Forgive me ‘Missionary Man John’ for I have sinned AGAIN.
I apologise and await my punishment. Please don’t order me to read Andy’s Ellis recent essay that would be too harsh a punishment.
@Robert Hughes
The assumption that underlies everything you write, but is never stated when you start on about those voters who you claim have no right to vote, is that they will vote No to Indy.
Ever thought of a way to persuade those “non-native” voters to vote Yes?
I can’t state this often enough. People move to Scotland for what they can get. Offer them more through Indy and they will vote Yes out of simple self-interest.
It really is about time the Indy movement started to focus on the essentials. Show us the fucking money.
Andy Ellis
Post-Brexit, the sky has not fallen in – agreed.
When you think about it, that should be a good argument for the Indy movement to deploy. “Just like with Indy, they all predicted Brexit would cause a disaster, well they were wrong, and they will be wrong about Indy too”.
Robert Hughes says:
Maybe they could organise a Scotland v England game the same day as the Non-Binary Ref , set-up wee booths outside Hampden Park and anyone who fancied it could have a say on Jockland’s Future
Now you’re talkin’
link to tinyurl.com
That might be a better link to Yes supporter singing at the Scotland v England football game.
link to tinyurl.com
Do blood-soaked , soil-caked Nativists haunt the imagination of our Voice of the Vast Majority representative ?
Does he suffer nightmares where he’s drowning in a * vast * ocean of woad ?
Has he maybe considered Psychotherapy to deal with his ever-increasing terrifying visions of being considered * uncivic * by his peers ?
Finally ……does he ever * get out * . Or is his vocation in Pork Education keep him confined to his keyboard 24/7 .It appears to .
Ah , such devotion must surely find it’s reward ; if not in this life then in the next , where he’s reincarnated as an entire International Community , amidst which , everywhere he looks he just sees versions of himself , nodding appreciatively at the wit and wisdom of The Great Onanist
” The assumption that underlies everything you write, but is never stated when you start on about those voters who you claim have no right to vote, is that they will vote No to Indy.”
Who are these people YOU claim I claim ” have no right to vote ” ?
I have never ” claimed ” anything in that regard .
The only * claim * I’ve made – which is not a claim at all , simply my opinion , is , given the experience of 2014 , to do the exact same thing again stands a very good chance of producing the same result .
Yes , I do attempt to persuade anyone of my acquaintance to support Independence . Not sure how successful I’ve been .
What about yourself John , have managed to make any converts ?
A salmond in radio Scotland this morning. Somebody at the BBC will be getting their jotters
He was somewhat kind to Nicola and poked Angus Robertson in the eye.
The man has lost none of his ability. He is a master.
John Main,
You bring up two very important points: 1) it’s never as bad as you think, 2) show me the money.
As for #1 and Brexit, well the UK economy is pretty big so chopping off Europe was going to hurt but it was unlikely to be a mortal wound. Scotland since it’s smaller, a similar cut is likely to be more risky but not necessarily fatal.
Scotland has enough resources to make sure the appropriate incentives were available to potential Yes votes. It’s no different than the Conservatives promising tax cuts ahead an election. However the leadership would never stoop to such unseemly tactics as maintaining their virtue is more important.
In addition promises of a rosy future in an independent Scotland would need the North Sea pumped dry and all those lovely billions used to upgrade all the housing, infrastructure and bring benefits up to a level suitable for a modern society with the leftovers stashed under the mattress for a rainy day. The green agenda simply prohibits such pillage of Mother Earth even though, in the long term, better energy efficiency in housing might just offset the oil used in the process.
Fear, uncertainty and doubt is the problem. You can solve both with a little self interest and a lot of resolve. I guess the leadership simply don’t want independence badly enough.
Pure chance, I happened across Alex Salmond on TV this morning. Came across very well, and I caught myself punching the air a couple of times. Man alive, how his presence is missed as a proper FM. He has an amazing knack to make his diplomacy feel tremendously positive, while the “diplomatic” answers from other politicians just rankle as evasiveness. It’s a rare talent and the mark of a Statesman, the velvet glove with a horseshoe from a Clydesdale inside…
BBC rats of course subtly distorting what he actually said, but what else would you expect from the BBC? Alex was perfectly clear.
John Main says:
12 June, 2022 at 10:11 am
@Robert Hughes
The assumption that underlies everything you write, but is never stated when you start on about those voters who you claim have no right to vote, is that they will vote No to Indy.
This ^^^
It appalls me that the answer by so-called believers in democracy to the problem of how to get to an independence majority is “cut and gerrymander the franchise until we get the result we want” without a care of the price paid to reach it. You only have to look at the basket case that is Northern Ireland where Catholic and Protestant families found themselves being fire bombed out because they were in the “wrong end of town” for those wanting to turn it into a “loyalist” or “republican” stronghold.
Ever thought of a way to persuade those “non-native” voters to vote Yes?
I can’t state this often enough. People move to Scotland for what they can get. Offer them more through Indy and they will vote Yes out of simple self-interest.
Exactly. There’s more chance of getting some middle Englander moved to Scotland for work to vote for change than some tunnel visioned Lowlander whose entire world revolves around the doings of the Old Firm (and the doings its adherents give each other on and off the park). The former is conscious they have something to lose or gain by events. The latter doesn’t care.
Why else did John Swinburne – he of the so-called “Scottish Senior Citizens Unity Party” that was little more than a front to give Labour a de facto extra List seat – get a bunch of old Old Firm crocks to be “candidates” for it (in reality, merely padding the bottom of the lists for him and his cronies).
@Robert Hughes 10:42
Fair point. We can agree that a rerun of IndyRef1 will just produce the same result. Perhaps because the increase in Yes due to the binfire that is WM misrule will be negated by the increase in No due to the binfire that is HR misrule.
Of course it should never have been like that. NS should have been pushing the vote the other way, with a decade of wise, competent, popular, administration behind her, with the tantalising promise that post-Indy, the best was yet to come.
Does anybody ever persuade anybody about anything? I suspect it’s a rare occurrence.
Republicofscotland @11:56pm yesterday.
On gene-editing, link to archive.ph
“It states that this would not only affect products exported to the EU which contain precision-bred plant material, but also those in the same product categories which do not.”
Once all the seeds are contaminated with others from genetically altered sources no agricultural exports from Scotland will be allowed in the EU. The well will truly be poisoned for a very long time.
So many weasel words in that article but one thing is quite clear the resolve of the Scottish Government will stand or fall on this issue and soon. Do they have the cohenes to take a stand or will they bend over and drop their panties once more.
Tut!
Links would be good!
link to bbc.co.uk
Alex Salmond at
13.06
@Dorothy Devine 9.55 am
1) “Robert H , perfect ! Let’s let every Tom ,Dick ( plenty of them!) and Harriet vote on our future.”
*sighs* Pay attention up the back. Google is your friend. Every Tom, Dick and Harriet didn’t have the vote in 2014, nor will they have it in the future. The franchise for indyref1 was widely accepted by the movement and seen as both progressive and fair. More to the point – and for emphasis – it is EXACTLY the precedent that virtually all other self determination referendums since WW@ have used. If you don’t believe me, go and do the research for yourself. Any relatively clued up child with an internet connection can do it.
2) “I am fairly sure that any other country would have restrictions on such big issues and impose real security on the voters , counting and observation – though some tell me , nay insist , that I am wrong and every blaggard and their aunty should stick their nose into our affairs.”
What does that even mean? The rules for indyref1 were agreed between Cameron and Salmond. Salmond was widely seen as having achieved everything he wanted. In retrospect Cameron was criticised by many unionists for caving in to Salmond’s demands, but that was largely due to the britnats hubris thinking they’d win easily. The fact the pro indy vote went up from the high 20’s % to 45% gave the yoons a nasty shock, hence all the: “you’ll have had your referendum”, “once in a generation” and “we said no, we meant it” rhetoric ever since.
You are wrong in the sense that while every people has the right to self determination, it is neither automatic or unlimited. If UDI was so easy, the UN would have a lot more than 198 members.
‘Naval architect sought to draw up design for new Western Isles ferry’
hebrides-news.com
Hi Folks, who is this Lisa.C., slandering Alex Salmond an Alba supporters in comments section the National. Ruth Wishart article.
Sorry, “and”
It is claimed that if posters don’t want to read certain posts they can just scroll past. Now this is true for everyone except Stu who has to monitor the posts.
He won’t be able to just scroll past the ‘fuckin’ binfire’ posted by Andy Ellis for example.
@Tourette’s Ruby 10.33 am
1) “Andy Ellis must type at the speed of light or he has all these ‘essays’ all ready to go as soon as someone mentions franchise, covid, the war.”
Or perhaps it’s just that I’m pretty well rehearsed playing nativist whack a mole Ruby? I realise it’s not difficult to sound more erudite than you, or come across as more balanced than someone whose main preoccupation in here is cunt calling and moaning that nobody else talks about her hobby horse issues.
2) “Anyone think the word ‘franchise/moonhwlers’ might be heading for the sandbox?”
Who knows? the Rev seems pretty tolerant – some might even say tolerant to a fault. If he sandboxes the word cunt it would at least have the advantage that we’d hear from you a lot less.
Memo
To all nativists;
Never forget the golden rule – don’t listen to twats.
I love my magic mouse just one flick of my pinkie and the orange faced moniker disappears.
Poor old Stu has to read all his guff.
Breeks is in my bad books this morning for
1. Posting about the fuckin’ franchise.
2. Not posting a link to the Alex Salmond interview which is excellent. Compare and contrast this to the recent torn faced interview by Sturgeon.
George Gannon says:
12 June, 2022 at 11:34 am
Hi Folks, who is this Lisa.C., slandering Alex Salmond an Alba supporters in comments section the National. Ruth Wishart article.
Tut! No archived link. That’s you joining Breeks in my bad books.
Contorted and contrary voting for Scots.
The Scottish voting franchise last time was contracted out to a english based company.
The Scottish devolved government is a English branch Government.
The Snp are actually working for the english devolved government.
They swear an oath when entering Scottish Parliament to the British monarchy.
The crown is within the British Parliament.
The British parliament/Parliament claims it is Sovereign over people.
The Scottish Parliament have to ask the english Parliament for Permission to have a referendum.
As long as we continue to use the devolved Scottish Parliament for any voting.
We are hobnailing our sovereignty to be tied under that of the BritishEnglish claim of Parliamentary Sovereignty.
@Chas 10.04 am
“Why were they denied a vote? Because the SNP thought they would be more inclined to vote NO.:
I think it’s more complex than that, or at least the calculation in 2014 was. I’m sure it IS the motivation for a lot of nativists who now oppose giving Scots born people in the diaspora the vote, even though the logic is pretty hard for them to refute if you are trying to change the franchise to one based on blood / birthright.
The 2011 Census recorded 708,872 people born in Scotland resident in England, 24,346 resident in Wales and 15,455 resident in Northern Ireland. If you include their children and grandchildren eligible to vote (as they would be entitled to Scottish citizenship post independence on the Irish model set out in the 2014 White Paper).
Leaving aside for the moment the argument as to whether it is “fair” for these people – many of whom will have little actual connection to Scotland or have made little or no contribution to Scotland over their lifetimes – to be given a say in “our” self determination, how much would it cost to register these people, validate their status and keep it up to date? Who would do it? Who would pay for it?
The Generalitat in Catalonia used a specific new register of Catalans abroad for their failed referendum in 2017, which allowed Catalans abroad to register for a vote. Fewer than 5,000 of the estimated 285,000 eligible to vote did so.
If nativists are being honest and logical, then they ought to support the extension of the franchise to Scots in the diaspora. The fact that most don’t tells us a whole lot.
@John Main 10.42 am
“Does anybody ever persuade anybody about anything? I suspect it’s a rare occurrence.”
Scots supporting independence 2012: high 20’s %
Scots supporting independence 2014: 45%
Seems like some folks may have changed their minds…? 🙂
Shug says:
12 June, 2022 at 10:49 am
A salmond in radio Scotland this morning. Somebody at the BBC will be getting their jotters
He was somewhat kind to Nicola and poked Angus Robertson in the eye.
The man has lost none of his ability. He is a master.
Which programme Shug? Got a link?
Thus we are asking an english acting government for our right to vote to separate from them.
How many in Scotland think we will ever achieve a yes result on independence for Scotland under the english / British based devolved government franchise of Sovereignty,
The two Sovereignty positions between england and Scotland are not compatible through the Scottish devolved government.
‘f nativists are being honest and logical, then they ought to support the extension of the franchise to Scots in the diaspora.’
Who are the Scots in the diaspora?
Ron Maclean says:
12 June, 2022 at 12:13 pm
‘f nativists are being honest and logical, then they ought to support the extension of the franchise to Scots in the diaspora.’
Who are the Scots in the diaspora?
Another mile long sermon on it’s way for Ron MacLean from ‘Whack a Nativist Missionary & Educator of Pork’
Any new Scots in the diaspora?
On TV
link to bbc.co.uk
Alex Salmond at
13.07
On Radio: Not sure if it’s just an audio version of the TV prog.
link to bbc.co.uk
@Ron Maclean 12.13 pm
“Who are the Scots in the diaspora?”
Presumably in the eyes of nativists anyone born in Scotland who now lives elsewhere, but particularly those in the rest of the UK. All of them would automatically qualify for citizenship in an independent Scotland. Many jurisdictions would also allow their children and grandchildren to apply for citizenship.
There would seem to be something of a contradiction involved insisting that the franchise here should exclude anyone not born here on the basis of blood/ethnicity, but also exclude a million or so of the “ethnos” for living “abroad”.
@Ruby
I apologise! I know I shouldn’t listen to twats but sometimes you have to challenge their nonsensical statements.
Look on the bright side, had the Fishwife taken us to independence, she would have dragged the nation down to its knees with her and her rabble’s incompetence, mendacity and all-round nastiness.
-and she would have been nigh on impossible to remove.
We are back to slowly, slowly, catchee monkee. Maybe next time we’ll have learned the lessons about how to win. We didn’t earn any lst few times.
Chas @ 10 am
Setting aside question of whether SNP might want less (or more!) NO voters in the next one, the 2014 vote appears to have been held under EU local election rules.
Since that is no longer appropriate (not least because some of the electorate will not be entitled to participate in certain elections were an independent Scotland to rejoin the EU)* it makes perfect sense (to me)** to use the EU ref as the template.
(ie residents of English, Welsh or (N) Irish origin should not be entitled to vote but could still be retained as potentially useful pawns in negotiating away any obstacles not foreseen by the referendum agreement/ absence of same).
* – eg I’m no longer allowed to vote for anyone anywhere
**- karma?
George Gannon.
RUBY.
I do not know how to do links, who they bloody hell are you. This is not your site,
You can get stuffed.
Breeks.
Republicofscotland.
Alf Baird.
Robert Hughes.
Scottish sovereignty and Scottish Independence cannot ever come through the sottish devolved government, as it is an english construction,.
Even if we got a ” AYE ” from them , you can have a referendum with our permission on sic a sic date through a British franchise voting system and the Scottish devolved / but english acting Scottish Government.
Where is Scots sovereignty?
It has to be outside The political Scottish Devolved Government.
And by Scots waiting for permission to hold a referendum from westminster to its devolved government in Scotland in of itself dismisses the Sovereignty of Scots
James Che. says:
12 June, 2022 at 1:03 pm
It has to be outside The political Scottish Devolved Government…
Yes, and no James Che.
SSRG had a Zoom meeting after Dumfries March, and discussed International Recognition.
International Recognition is the prerogative of the Nation which gives it, so while a Constitutional Argument might persuade one Nation, perhaps a different Nation might want to see evidence of Devolution floundering as equally important. It all “depends”.
Scotland needs “everybody” to be doing as much “everything” as we can manage, (& hopefully coordinate), and get doing whatever it takes to convince foreign Nations that Scotland is worthy, able, and honourable, and that International Recognition is properly warranted.
I need a few days to get my head around this, think some stuff through, but Scotland could be in great shape. I feel an article coming on… but I need to mull stuff over and let it ferment a bit… Also, last thing I want to do is steal the SSRG & SALVO’s thunder… But after the Zoom meeting, my head was like a pinball machine with ideas bouncing around.
“A lot can happen between now and then of course, but is it realistic to think that the overwhelming majority who are in favour of full EU membership now are suddenly going to have a change of heart in what are likely to be more uncertain times? Disassociating ourselves from the failed British nationalist project will be no easy task in itself: are Scots going to want to “do a Norway”, or seek the relative security of being part of the EU?”
That’s the whole issue and completely missed the point I am making.
Why the sudden U turns by the Greens and WHO
Why the massive privatisation push
Why the slashing in the budgets
Everything that Robin points out on a weekly basis .
Why tell me why ?
It is because they systematically turned EU four years ago. This theory that all of this was going to happen later and after winning an independence vote is pure folly.
It is happening NOW!
The pace of it has been quite extraordinary as they have u turned on every promise given over the last 20 years.
You simply have to ask yourself why ? Why ?
The answers are staring you straight in the face. Forbes is never away from Brussels. The SNP political decisions are being guided by neo!liberal globalist Brussels.
SNP: What would you like us to do to make sure joining you and then using the Euro can be done as quickly and easily as possible.
EU: You need to run deficits less than 3% of GDP. That is Scottish households and Scottish businesses cannot have a surplus greater than 3% of GDP.
You need to reduce your national debt to below 60% of GDP. That’s Scottish households pensions and savings portfolios.
You need to open the Scottish economy to competition and privatise Scottish assets, So foreign companies can own them and charge for electricity, energy, water, transport, healthcare, education.
You need to have free movement of capital. So capital can hold the Scottish government to ransom via investment strikes and free movement of workers so as soon as Scottish workers gain a bit of pricing power. We can floor the market with cheap labour and take that pricing power away.
SNP: It will take a while but no problem we will get started on it right away.
That was 4 years ago and what Forbes means when she says the word ” reset”
James Che.
As far as I’m aware in the Treaty of Union, there’s no indication anywhere that the recall of the Scottish Parliament has to be organised or sanctioned by Westminster.
“Westminster does not have the constitutional authority to counter the expressed will of the Scottish people. There was no union of the national parliaments of Scotland and England under the Acts in 1706 and the 1707 Treaty of Union.”
The people of Scotland are sovereign, the route out of this union is clear, however its been hidden from the masses by Westminster, House Jock politicians and the foreign media that passes as Scottish in Scotland.
We could declare UDI instantly or call back our MPs to Holyrood and hold a vote to leave this union, we’ve had umpteen mandates to leave this union so a yes vote in a grand assembly would also see us declare indy right there and then, a foreign countries government has absolutely no part to play in it.
I’m in agreement with Craig Murray the conditions for a fair indyref in Scotland do not exist, and probably haven’t from day one, of this horrible union, we know through history how the UK governments of the past have interfered in other countries election such as in Kenya.
Add in that this English government is in the process of capturing the Electoral Commission if its not already captured the current Electoral Commission CEO has rubbed shoulder with Integrity initiative personnel in Riva Latvia.
Also you have to take into account the bias of the Civil Service of which Sir Nicholas MacPherson, who was the the head of the SS in 2014, admitted at a later date that his department was biased against Scottish independence, incidentally both he and Murray Foote now work for Sturgeon the betrayer, what does that tell you.
No an indyref again will not bear fruit for Scottish independence.
@Andy Ellis 12:05
You missed one:
Scots supporting Independence 2022: 45% (still)
Maybes everybody capable of changing their minds already did so by 2014!
Maybes the lack of a dynamic, charismatic, persuasive leader is the real problem. It’s long overdue for Indy to find one.
@Republic 2:15
“head of the SS”
Jeezo, Republic, your obsession with Nazis has taken you over. Chill.
George Gannon says:
12 June, 2022 at 1:03 pm
George Gannon.
RUBY.
I do not know how to do links, who they bloody hell are you. This is not your site,
You can get stuffed.
OK George I’ll do the links for you. Who am I? I’m one of the nicest, friendliest, kindest, brightest wittiest posters on this forum. I don’t own this site YET. Might make the Rev an offer he can’t refuse in the very near future. 🙂
Who are you?
James Che. says:
Indeed James . If I have read the Claim Of Right correctly, every institution , MPs MSPs councillors etc etc in Scotland are, by not observing the claim of right and its lawful status. They are breaking the law, the claim of right defines this as treason and the penalty is death by being hung drawn and quartered .
Our forebears were quite determined to protect Scotland and the sovereign Scottish people.
Oh Dear
“The Union Treaty itself allows for the sovereign parliament of either of the original signatories to repeal their Act of Union by which the Treaty is empowered.”
Oh for a indy minded FM who has courage and conviction, its surely what Scotland needs to dissolve this union.
Why the sudden U turns by the Greens and SNP that is a complete 180 on what they won elections on for 20 years ?
Why the massive privatisation push?
Why the slashing in the budgets?
Everything and more that Robin points out on a weekly basis.
link to robinmcalpine.org
Why tell me why ?
Nobody can even begin to say why or have even attempted to say why. Nobody !
I’m telling you why and warned Robin as soon as I saw the growth comission. Warned him in great detail as the growth commission was a copy and paste job of an EU convergence program below.
Word for Word. Treaty by Treaty.
link to ec.europa.eu
Robin wouldn’t listen.
He listened to Craig Dalzell and Richard Murphy who both adore the EU. Who don’t even mind using the Euro. Which would be serfdom not independence.
Even after everything that has happened over the last 4 years Robin is still struggling to see the WHY.
Tell me the WHY ?
Why the sudden U turns by the Greens and SNP that is a complete 180 on what they won elections on for 20 years ?
Why the massive privatisation push?
Why the slashing in the budgets?
Everything and more that Robin points out on a weekly basis.
Tell me WHY ?
Scotland is asleep the SNP are going to steamroller over the top of everybody. Until we are at the heart of Europe using the Euro.
Insanity !
Most countries are trying to figure a way out.
At this point in time. The only thing that stops this neoliberal globalist train wreck from hitting Scotland is if the vote for independence is lost if there is another referendum.
Think about that and make sure it keeps you awake at night.
George Gannon says:
12 June, 2022 at 1:03 pm
……
I don’t know who Lisa C is George, but she’s just a fanatical shill who won’t hear a bad word said about Sturgeon or Self ID, but she’s always amongst the very first to stick the knife into anything ALBA / Alex Salmond.
It’s quite normal to see a battle BTL with Lisa C, three or four similarly minded SNP shills, and Peter Bell, who seems very adept at rubbing them up the wrong way, (and doesn’t seem impressed with ALBA either).
She’s the type of blinkered imbecile wholly unwilling to believe that ALBA actually wanted a Holyrood Supermajority, and insists ALBA is all about Salmond’s ego. She’s probably dumb enough to believe injuring ALBA and handing List Seats to Unionists was a great idea.
I also know you can’t comment BTL at the Herald unless you pay £90 or so to subscribe… so that’s another giveaway of a challenged intellect. (sorry Peter Bell, shrapnel wound, – no offence intended).
Anyway, she is actually so unhinged, I’m not even sure she is a Sturgeon sycophant, she might simply be paid by the line to write anti-ALBA diatribes. She could be SNP / Tory / Better Together / Alphabetty with a Salmond grudge. Who knows? Just another I-Robot with the lights turned off.
It’s also possible she’s about 12 years old. Never rule out that possibility when somebody seems a little immature. Maybe it’s because they are.
More Scots must read this stuff for it to sink in and gather momentum.
“It is also worth remembering that on the 04th of July 2018, the House of Commons endorsed the principles of the Claim of Right for Scotland, agreed by the Scottish Constitutional Convention in 1989 and then ratified by the Scottish Parliament in 2012, and acknowledged the sovereign right of the Scottish people to determine the form of government best suited to their needs. So given all that, it is absolute nonsense for anybody to suggest that a democratic country cannot go to the polls if a situation demands a response from the people.”
“Was it a “Once in a Lifetime” vote?
It may well have been a “once in a lifetime opportunity” for many, but nowhere in either the 2012 Edinburgh Agreement or in the 2013 Scottish Independence Referendum Act, does it mention a time scale for a second referendum, and there is certainly no reference to it being “once in a lifetime” nor is there any reference to a “promise that it would settle the issue for a generation” as has been stated in the official government reply to both mine and the petition replied to on the 25th of April 2019.”
“Furthermore, chapter 2:18 of the 2014 report of the Smith Commission for further devolution of powers to the Scottish Parliament stated “that nothing in this report prevents Scotland becoming an independent country in the future should the people of Scotland so choose”.”
And if you do believe an indyref is the way out of this union.
“The UK Governments continued refusal to grant an order to hold a second independence referendum, removing the democratic rights of the Scottish people to make any kind of decision regarding the future of Scotland, contravenes article one of the United Nations.
The principle of self–determination is prominently embodied in Article I of the Charter of the United Nations. … All peoples have the right to self–determination. By virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development.”
Somebody who can reach the grassroots needs to explain the WHY.
Make sure everybody understands it and hears it.
But the grassroots are infested with liberals who think handing the keys of Scotland over to Brussels will save them from London.
With IQ’s no higher than room temperature. Who are asleep to what is taking place.
John Main says:
12 June, 2022 at 2:15 pm
@Andy Ellis 12:05
You missed one:
Scots supporting Independence 2022: 45% (still)
Maybes everybody capable of changing their minds already did so by 2014!
Maybes the lack of a dynamic, charismatic, persuasive leader is the real problem. It’s long overdue for Indy to find one.
Is that cunt Ellis being mean to you John.
You are correct support for independence has flat lined. Although Alex Salmond did mention a poll taken last week that showed support for independence at 50%. It’s pretty close even at 45%.
You keep mentioning money and how important it is. I wonder what you think about the 45-50% and their lack of interest in money. The 45% voted YES in 2014 without knowing ‘which currency we would use’ . Any views?
We could have the most dynamic, charismatic, persuasive leader in the world but if he/she preferred the celeb life to campaigning we would be left stuck up Mierda Creek in the same paddle free boat.
@Gordon Gekko 2.14 pm
I doubt most Scots buy the “EU as part of the neo-liberal globalist reset plot” narrative. It’s all a bit conspiracy theory woo-woo isn’t it? I know it’s a narrative that some find irresistible, but just because it’s cat-nip for fringe groups doesn’t make it convincing to the general voting public, still less does it make it true.
Post indy it will be for the Scottish government elected by the people to enact whatever platform they have a mandate for. If you honestly think ordinary voters are buying all this QAnon-ish conspiracy theory guff, Rev Stu has a bridge to sell you.
Gordon Gekko says:
12 June, 2022 at 2:40 pm
But the grassroots are infested with liberals who think handing the keys of Scotland over to Brussels will save them from London.
Why wouldn’t it save us from London? The thing about handing the keys to the EU you can get them back anytime you want. Just need to ask. London on the other hand changes the locks and refuses to hand back the keys, they even refuse to listen to your request for the keys to be handed back.
I wouldn’t have a problem voting for EU membership knowing that unlike Hotel California we could actually leave if we wanted to.
I’ve wanted true and real Independence all my adult life.
But if the combined IQ of my countries plan of independence is
” handing the keys of Scotland over to Brussels to save us from London”
They can stick that fake independence where the sun don’t shine.
For me, we don’t deserve independence if we make Brussels our new god.
Or
Get on our hands and knees in front of an neoliberal globalist EFTA judge in a neoliberal globalist EFTA courtroom to ask permission and instruction of how to proceed.
Just because the liberal types don’t want to have FULL sovereignty powers for our country. Love nothing else more than handing over that power to somebody else. Just as long it is not the people of Scotland.
Gordon Gekko @3.04pm.
No full EU membership for me, but EFTA membership does have its benefits, our businesses can do business with the EU market whilst doing business with the rest of the UK, the hard border between Scotland and England wouldn’t be required with EFTA, even though the Westminster government of the day would probably say it would for propaganda purposes.
“I wouldn’t have a problem voting for EU membership knowing that unlike Hotel California we could actually leave if we wanted to.”
Incredible stupidity, with a proportional representation parliament. Not first past the post.
The SNP winning all these landslides have numbed your thinking into landslides and majorities are the norm with this type of parliament.
With nothing could be further from the truth.
Good luck trying to get a majority in our parliament to leave the EU once we are in it.
Good luck with that.
That’s a tool they use to trap countries IN. Never let them out.
The claim of right defines Scotland as independent as it always has been. The act of union was a crime against the sovereign Scottish people, accordingly a referendum will be totally illegal.
Lets move out and move on.
@Gordon Gekko 2.40 pm
1) “Somebody who can reach the grassroots needs to explain the WHY.”
Any suggestions who this charismatic, yet to be identified, figure is or where he/she will come from? So far, I’m coming up blank. If you’re betting the farm on some messianic leader leading us poor, misled, unresconstructed liberals to the sunny uplands of progressive independence, you sure as hell better hope he/she is a good ‘un and not a wrong ‘un.
2) “Make sure everybody understands it and hears it.”
By doing what that we’re not doing now? On what platforms? Using what resources? How long will it take to construct these novel platforms if we’re not using existing ones?
3) “But the grassroots are infested with liberals who think handing the keys of Scotland over to Brussels will save them from London.”
Being anti-EU because *neo-liberals* isn’t the slam dunk answer you and many on both political extremes like to think. If you want to convince the majority of Scots (the majority of both pro and anti independence Scots being solidly pro-EU) you’re going to have to come up with something a lot more convincing than brexiteer playbook stuff that Scotland in the EU is just pretendy independence, and no better than being in the union.
Nobody sane buys the false equivalence, and nobody with an ounce of common sense accepts or will vote for parties that insist 27 member states of the EU aren’t really independent. Get back to us when you have some arguments and analysis that aren’t electorally suicidal.
4) “With IQ’s no higher than room temperature. Who are asleep to what is taking place.”
Insulting the intelligence of the majority won’t win you the argument. The moonhowlers in here can’t grasp this concept. You and they represent a very small proportion of the voting public. The majority don’t buy your snake oil, and certainly won’t vote for it. Assuming that you or some other tiny minority has the monopoly on the truth that the majority are just to stupid or too docile to work things out for themselves has seldom worked out well throughout history. Craig Murray and a few others might think now is the time for revolutionary vanguardism, but most of the rest of us have out doubts.
Infect the SNP struggle to get a majority now.
Good luck trying to get a majority in a proportional representation parliament when the country is infested with remainers.
Good luck with that.
“After joining We can leave the EU anytime we like”
Dream on, that is a fantasy, Scotland will be trapped by the voting system we have.
Why it is imperative and so very important we don’t join in the first place.
Rupublicofscotland.
My take on this is almost identical as yours.
as confirmed even by westminster that it is the Scots that have a right to choose a new government,
It does not say how often, or that it has to involve westminster or the devolved english government they placed in Scotland.
It does not state we have to wait to be recognised by other nations before we can go ahead.
O/T: Alex Salmond on BBC Sunday show today is on view on Alba Party Facebook
NEWSFLASH!
In Scotland majorities are not the norm. They are extremely difficult to achieve.
It was set up that way for that very reason.
Why the EU force countries down that route when they expand forever Eastwards with NATO.
I think France and the UK are the only ones who don’t. For good reason.
If you want to control a nation geopolitically you force a voting system on them that tries to prevent any real change.
You get them to you use a foreign currency they can’t issue like the Euro. Take on foreign debt a debt that is in Euros.
You own them.
O/T: the Alex Salmond interview is also directly available to watch via The Crossgate Centre twitter.
Gecko makes a lot of scattergun points, some of which have merit, some of which don’t. Trying to create a false equivalence between “london rule” and “brussels rule” is nonsensical though.
There is a lot wrong with the EU, but the wrongness all originated from America.
One “high IQ” take on the “special military operation” in that-place, is that it is “really” an economic attack on Germany (and thus the whole of the EU) by the USA. The shooty stuff is just colour, the real goal is all the repercussions. The US setup the whole provocation, and Pootin “took the bait”.
The US must stop the linkup Germany-Russia-China, or it’s game over for empire, and the dollar scam. One side of this is too far gone (China is on the list though, it is next) but the US can certainly stop the other side.
Thus, for these games of geopolitical chess, the citizens of the EU must suffer economically, like shivering in the dark if the gas taps are turned off. Whatever the outcome of the wider play, the EU leaders should have turned round and told the US to “fuck off” – we represent our citizens, our countries – to get involved in the evil machinations of a class of people living pampered lives in the beltway, who, for whatever reasons have a pathological hatred of russia (“the czar killed my great grandad”) – is just deeply tr3acherous and cowardly.
But this is what you get with the eurotrash. The EU was a good idea, ruined by a succession of bad ideas, most done to placate the US; the single currency, the expansion eastward, US corporate friendly laws and taxation, allowing NATO a free reign. Letting Britain in in the first place was an error, now “corrected” (de Gaulle was right about “England”). Neither the south of europe nor the east properly fit together with north western europe, their economic levels are too different.
The EU just imports whatever shit ideas the americans are peddling, economic policy from the republicans, social policy from the democrats; this amounts to equality for all, at the lowest level, we shall be poor, but having lots of gay sex at the techno disco – plus a “boot stomping on a human face”.
But I wouldn’t consider the problems of the EU to be even in the same ballpark as the UK or US. You do get something out of being in the EU – it’s like a dinner party with a fancy buffet, some people you like, some you don’t, but there is plenty to go around, and you can associate as you wish and leave when you want. The UK is like being stuck in a lift for eternity with a kleptomaniac narcissist who talks like Danny Dyer and thinks you are “bezzy mates”.
EFTA countries are too small and rich to be in the EU (poor countries obviously want in for the gibs) – the Icelanders would have to share the fish, the norwegs would be soaked, and the swiss might have to obey a lot of laws about banking; what would the EU ask of Scotland, with all that oil, gas, fish, windpower, electricity – I mean, there are refugee hostels to build and pride marches to hold.
Independence is not an absolute in this world, for anyone. Unless you were a nuclear armed autarchy.
Why the Remainers SCREAM and SHOUT !
About getting that system in the UK.
If they can reverse the Brexit result and get the UK to adopt that voting system.
The UK would be trapped forever.
Gordon Gekko says:
12 June, 2022 at 3:18 pm
Infect the SNP struggle to get a majority now.
Good luck trying to get a majority in a proportional representation parliament when the country is infested with remainers.
Good luck with that.
“After joining We can leave the EU anytime we like”
Dream on, that is a fantasy, Scotland will be trapped by the voting system we have.
Why it is imperative and so very important we don’t join in the first place.
Spot on Gordon!
It would be difficult very difficult to get a leave vote in a country full of remainers?
What voting system will we have in iScotland?
Hopefully not one designed to get a leave vote from a country full of remainers.
sarah says:
12 June, 2022 at 3:38 pm
O/T: the Alex Salmond interview is also directly available to watch via The Crossgate Centre twitter.
What about ‘You Tube’ that’s always handy ‘cos you can download the video to watch later.
Rev Stu posted a Carl Sagan quote over on his FB page a few hours ago, which ends:
“Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.”
I think we all know who the charlatan is in terms of Scottish independence.
Interestingly the first response to his FB post was a negative one from Graham Hendry:
“Of course the answer to this is to have local citizens’ assemblies. But people, yourself included, are addicted to the colours and numbers and theatre of elections/politicians.”
Not unreasonably Stu asked a follow up:
“Who sets them up? What do they do? How do they make anyone pay attention? Saying two words is not a plan. Explain it to me.”
I’ve asked similar questions before of those proposing novel, extra parliamentary routes to independence, which bypass referendums or plebiscitary elections. I never get any reasoned responses, usually just the same old guff about me being a pretendy independence supporter, britnat shill, Sturgeonite shill or britnat agent.
The usual demented, unreasoned stuff from the kind of moonhowlers who have set up camp BTL here it seems.
Like Stu, I’m still waiting on answers.
Breeks.
I do not see the chicken and egg scenario working for Scottish Sovereignty or the ” Claim of Right “.
First of all we cannot be recognised as Sovereign Scots nation and country While we just wait for someone else to say we are,
That on its own, says we are not Sovereign, but reliant on others to give us our sovereignty, that go ahead.
As to the worry wether or not we will be acknowledged as a country in our right would be the same before as afterwards.
Besides if we wait to see if other nations recognise us as you say, before we are a sovereign country again,
They simple cannot do that before we have acted.can they?
That is the chicken and egg scenario,
That’s the cliff we are all standing on.
That this neoliberal, globalist juggernaut travelling at 10,000 mph is going to knock us over it.
That’s the WHY both the SNP and Greens betray their promises of the last 30 years.
They simply adore the EU and want to be at the heart of it.
The only progressive po!icy the Irish has ever got through in all the years of membership is the banning of smoking in pubs.
That’s it that is the total sum of Ireland’s achievements as it was forced into becoming the largest Tax Haven of those that use the Euro. Instructed what to do the rest of the time. By !ord Palpatine and the syth.
link to statista.com
Scotland’s future ….
Walter Mitty says:
12 June, 2022 at 3:51 pm
I’ve asked similar questions before of those proposing novel, extra parliamentary routes to independence, which bypass referendums or plebiscitary elections. I never get any reasoned responses,
—
Private referendums are legal. The legislatures don’t have to be involved.
You instantly dismissed this route out of the union.
Btw Walter, if “300-year-old treaties” are irrelevant and not worth discussing, does that make ‘history degrees’ irrelevant & worthless, and just BArts for BArts sake?
Enough! That’s Gordon Geeko on my SQP list.
Ireland the largest Tax Haven in the Euro
To the tune of $308 Billion.
link to statista.com
So corrupt they can’t even figure out the correct GDP figure.
What the leisure class and capital in Scotland have always wanted and the economic model Nicola adores and persues and won’t stop until she gets it.
” My precious “
Wullie,
A point well said.
Scott says:
12 June, 2022 at 4:08 pm
Walter Mitty says:
12 June, 2022 at 3:51 pm
I’ve asked similar questions before of those proposing novel, extra parliamentary routes to independence, which bypass referendums or plebiscitary elections. I never get any reasoned responses,
Who is this Walter Mitty who isn’t getting answers?
Could it be his questions are not being read?
Could it be the way he asks these questions?
Gordon Gekko.
I suppose the EU entry vote would have to be put to the Scottish people again, after independence,
For the very reason that we are a different country than Britain was when it entered and exited the EU.
Breeks,
Thank you for the heads up and nice response. I’ve been reading this site since the beginning, don’t comment much, but that person/Woman/ man/ thing, got right up my nose.
I also read all off your posts, and enjoy them you set out a good table.
A tiny, tiny, little country with $ 308 billion off shored.
More $’s off shored than Canada, Switzeraland, Brazil, France, India, Singapore, Germany.
That barely sells a thing to earn $’s. Full of cortuption.
What’s not to like ?
Scotland’s future under the SNP. The Scottish population are asleep full of liberals that cheers Nicola on not matter what she does.
Slash budgets – Yay
Sell off assets – Yay
Serve the rent seekers – Yay
Complete 180 on 30 years of policy – Yay
Promoted bankers – Yay let’s build more on the Clyde.
Nobody fights back because of the insane belief that Brussels will save them from London. So getting independence is more important because of the false belief we can leave the EU anytime we choose.
It’s utterly tragic and a very depressing state of affairs.
@Scat 4.08 pm
1) “Private referendums are legal. The legislatures don’t have to be involved.”
I didn’t say otherwise. Try to interact with what people actually say or write, not with what the voices in your head tell you, huh?
If Citizen’s Assemblies or Craig Murray’s proposed National Assembly of the revolutionary vanguard are to work, answer the questions Stu posed in his FB post:
Who sets them up?
What do they do?
How do they make anyone pay attention?
Saying two words is not a plan.
Explain it to me.
2) “You instantly dismissed this route out of the union.”
I haven’t dismissed it at all, let alone instantly. I expressed scepticism that it was realistic, and particularly that it would achieve results faster than plebiscitary elections for Holyrood in 2026. Folk are free to disagree. They’re not entitled however to make evidence free assertions that it’s a slam dunk. Those of us who are sceptical are entitled to ask for details about how it would work in practice, who would be doing it, how we would ensure international recognition.
Craig Murray apparently thinks the time to call a National Assembly of MPs and MSPs to declare UDI is now. Revolutionary vangaurdism I think it’s called. Perhaps you agree with him. If so, good luck with that.
The timetable is all wrong.
Those that Believed none of this would happen until after independence and after an EU referendum are all wrong. Wrong by a country mile. Not even in the ball park.
It started to happen 4 years ago before the publication of the growth commission.
The pace of systematically turning EU has been quite extraordinary. So much faster than I thought was even possible. I’ve thought about and studied this topic for 10 years.
Fools keep voting for it.
James Che
‘I suppose the EU entry vote would have to be put to the Scottish people again, after independence’.
Scotland would first have to meet the entry criteria. Currently we are miles away. Isn’t it amazing how this ‘money’ thing, that the dreamers and the romantics ignore gets in the way!
Andy Ellis
Are you not paying attention Andy? All the grandiose schemes to gain Independence, other than the somewhat inconvenient means of the ballot box, will be achieved by the mythical ‘WE’. Nobody has, as yet, got round to advising who the ‘WE’ actually are!
Ruby will be along shortly to add more of her insults. She is currently having a wee lie down………………..chewing the cud!
’Through a Scottish Prism’ with Roddy MacLeod, Yvonne Ridley, Denise Findlay and Phil Boswell excellent today. barrheadboy.com
@Confused 3:39
You lost me with your suggestion that the president of [redacted] ordered the annexation of [redacted] because the USA made him do it.
I don’t see that as “high IQ” at all, just “high on something”.
Good question though, “what would the EU ask of Scotland?”
Very good question indeed. Maybes nix. Maybes they would just want to shower us with progressive benefits and cash gifts.
Aye, right.
Anybody who has studied the EU for any considerable length of time.
Know exactly what the SNP and Greens are up to.
The WHY of their policy choices.
Walter Mitty says:
12 June, 2022 at 4:29 pm
@Scat 4.08 pm
1) “Private referendums are legal. The legislatures don’t have to be involved.”
2) “You instantly dismissed this route out of the union.”
I haven’t dismissed it at all, let alone instantly.
—-
You did dismiss it instantly, btl on this site.
Why the attempt to conflate private referendums and ‘Craig Murray’s National Assembly’ when they are 2 different things?
Can you share with the group why you ignored the question about worth & relevance of ‘history degrees’, given your position on Treaty & Acts of union? [I know the answer already, lolz]
James Che. says:
12 June, 2022 at 4:16 pm
Gordon Gekko.
I suppose the EU entry vote would have to be put to the Scottish people again, after independence,
For the very reason that we are a different country than Britain was when it entered and exited the EU.
Yes. 100%.
But there are a couple of quick questions, a bit like a Hobson’s Choice morality quiz…
1. Would you vote to join the EU if membership meant 27 EU Nations, (and a whole host of other Nations with EU Free Trade Agreements), all lined up to give Scotland immediate International Recognition virtually automatically?
2. Would you vote for NATO membership if it meant immediate International Recognition from the USA and Commonwealth nations?
That’s a yes and a no from me, but I’d think hard about the No, in large part because NATO membership, especially in the current climate, might actually cost Scotland recognition by BRICS… Brazil Russia, India, China, etc…
Bear in mind, once you’ve got the recognition, you’re a recognised sovereign nation who is then free to change it’s mind.
So far so good.
But now ask the same questions, but this time, assume Westminster is bitterly contesting Scotland’s Independence and disputing Scottish sovereignty, pulling Commonwealth strings, and doing it’s level best to prevent Scotland securing International Recognition…
For me, (and others can form their own opinions), I like the idea of quick EU membership, instant EU backing like the Irish have enjoyed in negotiations with a perfidious Boris Johnson, and instant International Recognition from 27 nations, and very probably, + other 37 nations with EU Free Trade Agreements. (38 but one is current UK), and a bewildering array of trade agreements at different stages of agreement. (Plus of course, not just recognition from these Nations, but immediate benefits from the actual trade agreements).
Declaring Indy might be the straightforward thing to do. Securing International Recognition could be an uphill struggle if England and the USA decided to dispute the matter hard, and withhold recognition. What leverage would you have to bargain with?
I think Scotland securing International Recognition from the EU and EU Affiliates would virtually guarantee Scotland’s recognition, even if some nations were reluctant about it.
I’m pro EU, folks know that, but I also remind you of my earlier suggestion of Scotland in the EU, but as a “bespoke” buffer state filtering English trade with the EU, and short circuiting Westminsters problems with the Northern Irish Protocol, (which are about to see the UK breaking International law).
An Indy Scotland / buffer state could sweeten Scottish Independence for everybody, even England, maybe especially England, and give them a big incentive to embrace Scottish Independence, as Scapa Flow is rapidly turned into a mighty Container Port for EU / Global bulk trade, with EU funding helping Scotland to upgrade the infrastructure.
All of that, in my opinion is extremely doable, and almost automatic if Scotland is pro EU.
How long, how many negotiators, and what leverage would Scotland need to secure anything like that international status and presence under it’s own steam, with London disputing every decision?
@Scat 4.50 pm
You were the one talking about private referendums. I cast doubt on any and all “cunning plans” which purported to “prove” on no evidence, with no back up from subject matter experts, that novel routes to independence not involving either a 2014 style referendum or plebiscitary elections would work. You’re still coming up short. There’s a shocker. Show us the beef as the old add used to say.
I ignored your question about history degrees because I don’t see its relevance. Perhaps you should ask someone with a history degree? Better yet, back up the assertions you and other “cunning plan” advocates make with peer reviewed papers and analysis from subject matter experts in constitutional law, history, international relations or some other relevant field.
We’ll wait…..
@John Main 4.44 pm
“You lost me with your suggestion that the president of [redacted] ordered the annexation of [redacted] because the USA made him do it.?
Sheesh….It’s like moonhowler conspiracy bullshit bingo in here today. Is it full moon yet…?
Perhaps lizard Biden’s human suit slipped and tipped “confused” the wink?
As for the “general state” here – “quarantine”? was suggested – I have a much better idea :
why don’t Ellis and his “new punk” Main piss off and join the UKIE FOREIGN LEGION; Ellis can cock the spandau, Main can feed the belt – giving their lives in the noble cause of defending a made up country, created by Lenin as it “seemed like a good idea at the time” (a kind of “better together” con-trick of its day) – all for some nefarious and underhand scheme cooked up by neocon scum. It’s a price worth paying.
Boyle is joining the foreign legion too – they asked him if he would “toss the salad” for the entire regiment and he said YES PLEASE as he always wanted to be a chef
Chas tried to go as well, but ended up in Marseille saying “je m’appelle chas je suis pour la guerre de russ ” to a baffled sergeant
Scottish Nationalists have only one enemy; it’s not Russya, the ‘krain, or Amerika or China
link to youtube.com
Confused says:
12 June, 2022 at 3:39 pm
The US must stop the linkup Germany-Russia-China, or it’s game over for empire, and the dollar scam.
Jesus wept!
Confused @ 3.39
Game , Set n Match brotherman . ‘Kin tremendous post .
Confused
What a very apt user name.
Another who thinks, I use the term loosely, if you are not a romantic or a dreamer you must be a Unionist, a shill, a troll or whatever term is the flavour of the day. I shall refrain from trying to make myself look ‘clever’ by inserting a phrase in a foreign language. It rarely impresses anybody!
@Mark Boyle 6.40 pm
“Jesus wept!”
Indeed! If you want to see him blow his brains out and you have a really strong stomach, read some of the BTL comments on Craig Murray’s piece “Biden Works to Prolong [insert name of invaded country here] War”.
They’re almost majestic in their insanity: it’s like the conspiracy theorist equivalent of a village idiots convention.
On surfing the internet today, I had come across the agricultural policy of the Netherlands to be self sufficient and in particular, their use of industrial sized greenhouses to achieve that. I believe something similar is being done in Spanish Almeria province.
From what I’ve read, going by geographical area comparisons, the Netherlands are the second largest exporter of food in the world.
It got my thinking that something similar could be done here in Scotland, considering we have vast amounts of empty space in our country, we could have food security and have another valuable export.
Of course we don’t have the same climates as these parts of the countries where these industrial greenhouses are located but given the will, could renewables play a part in providing a stable climate for these foodstuff to grow in this greenhouse environment?
We also have large amounts of coastline our country has as well, could mariculture be used in a sustainable and environmentally friendly way to produce more foodstuff for both food security and exports?
Of course you can’t click your fingers and these things will appear. It will take years of research and co-ordination between different government agencies and public/private sector research facilities to adapt this technology to work in Scotland but the point is if there is a desire for this and it is feasible then it can be done.
A lot of focus on an independent Scotland is the economy, currency etc but looking beyond that, there are a lot of things that an independent Scotland can do with for instance the natural resources available to make the country a success.
Of course, this can be done while Scotland is within the UK but it isn’t and very likely it won’t. There just isn’t that much focus for the UK government outside the city of London and the South East England as well as being prey to American business lobbying as seen with these Frankenstein Gene modified foods that they want to have here.
@Confused says: 6:15
“defending a made up country”
Let me fix that for you, Confused.
Defending the inhabitants of a geographical region with internationally recognised borders who want to be free to choose their own, sovereign destiny, free of the risk of violent, sudden annihilation, free of the risk of imprisonment or deportation, free from being pawns in some deranged, megalomaniac’s, man-of-destiny, wet dream.
Defending people much like the best Scots Indy supporters, in fact.
I won’t say they are identical to the Indy movement though. To be identical, they would have to contain a vocal minority calling for the violent annihilation of Scotland and the displacement of her people at the hands of her imperialist neighbour.
@John Main 8.31 pm
Since many of Vlad’s mates seem to share “confused” delusion that he’s invading a made up country, they might like to look at what some real subject matter experts say, rather than regurgitating the Kremlin playbook:
link to blogs.lse.ac.uk
@John Main 8.31 pm
Since many of Vlad’s mates seem to share “confused” delusion that he’s invading a made up country, they might like to look at what some real subject matter experts say, rather than regurgitating the Kremlin playbook.
I recommend searching for an article by Dr Björn Alexander Düben on the LSE blog which fact checks the Kremlin’s spurious claims that its neighbour is not a real country.
As you have previously observed, it’s passing strange that so many purported supporters of Scottish independence are happy to fluff for the imperialists in the Kremlin.
Sorry ruby just catching up and I see you have it
Very strange the Balmoral incident was trending, just after she started talking about Indyref2
Given the government controls on twitter one can only assume it was sanctioned and is a warning to nic about what is ahead
I see “the gangs all here” – let me book the ryanair …
you lads have fun now in your new roles – ukie regimental sissy
link to twitter.com
– men have needs, and when there’s no women. You know the score – you sure got a preddy mouth etc.
Trouble is everyone thinks they’re Burt Reynolds, or at least Jon Voight, but they are really just Ned Beatty.
The “4 whore-sons of the anal-prolapse”
Ellis/Main/Boyle/Chas
” some deranged, megalomaniac’s, man-of-destiny, wet dream.”
And we all thought you n the A-to-tha-muthaf*****-E were best mates too John .
Confused @ 6.15 & 12.12
Hahahaha . AYE !
Balmoral incident?
I had read our Nicola threw an iron across the room for some unknown reason, can’t figure why such a nice person would do that?
(Sarcasm tags doesn’t seem to work on this site)
Andy Ellis says:
12 June, 2022 at 3:51 pm
Rev Stu posted a Carl Sagan quote over on his FB page a few hours ago, which ends:
“Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.”
Was he referring to the EU? Does he agree with Gordon Gekko that once we join the EU we’ll never get out?
Andy Ellis says:
12 June, 2022 at 7:41 pm
@Mark Boyle 6.40 pm
“Jesus wept!”
Indeed! If you want to see him blow his brains out and you have a really strong stomach, read some of the BTL comments on Craig Murray’s piece “Biden Works to Prolong [insert name of invaded country here] War”.
They’re almost majestic in their insanity: it’s like the conspiracy theorist equivalent of a village idiots convention.
Against my better judgement I went to said article on Craig Murray’s site, and the politest which can be said is that Murray could be in agreement with some of that harebrained garbage by his consent to host it unchecked and unanswered by himself.
I thought Stormfront and David Icke’s website were the hotspots for the sort of creatures who have crisps and a tin of Carlsburg for breakfast, but Craig Murray’s blog is the bloody Studio 54 of them all!
Ruby says:
11 June, 2022 at 9:42 pm
I suppose if you are totally against dual nationality you will be against free movement of travel/an EU passport which wraps up 27 different nationalities in one neat package.
Breeks says:
I’m being pedantic, (though I believe it’s true), but you cannot have dual Nationality, because Nationality is determined by your place of birth.
You hijacked my post which had absolutely nothing to do with voting rights to post about the fuckin’ franchise. Did you do this to wind up Ellis?
I have no idea what you mean by nationality. I was referring to people holding two passports. The idea that if you are born in Scotland you are automatically Scottish/would automatically gain Scottish nationality is totally bonkers. It’s as bonkers as the idea that if you come to live in Scotland you are automatically Scottish.
I’m very disappointed in your Breeks I will be looking at your posts in a different light from now on.
BTW Ellis objects to Scotland allowing dual nationality. This being the case those babies born in Scotland but resident else where might not think having Scottish nationality is such a good idea.
It looks as if Ellis & Main have zero respect for Stu’s wishes.
He put certain words on the banned list recently for a reason.
They are just dying to get back to their ‘fuckin bin fire pissing contest’ and fuck what Stu wants!
I see the Britnat shill Agent Ellis recommending that you head over to the LSE, which is funded by the Rockerfeller Foundation and has had such wonderful folk pass through it doors (graduating) such as the evil warhawk Elliot Abrams.
Just being sponsored by the Rockerfeller Foundation should set alarm bells ringing.
” Craig Murray’s blog is the bloody Studio 54 of them all!”
A wee Britnat shill such as yourself couldn’t lace Craig Murray’s boots, he went to prison to bring us what happened to Salmond, he revealed the Skripal affairs for what it was BS (an inside job), he’s exposed the terrible treatment of Assange, and brought us information on many other machinations of the UK government and other countries governments.
What has a wee shite like you done?
Chas says:
12 June, 2022 at 7:39 pm
Confused
What a very apt user name.
Another who thinks, I use the term loosely, if you are not a romantic or a dreamer you must be a Unionist, a shill, a troll or whatever term is the flavour of the day. I shall refrain from trying to make myself look ‘clever’ by inserting a phrase in a foreign language. It rarely impresses anybody!
Well said Chas. Ellis does it all the time.
Just wondering what English words I can use for the following?
cojones
raison d être?
RSVP
Avant-garde
Cliché
Connoisseur
Cul-de-sac
Déjà vu
Dossier
Eau de toilette
Faux
Faux-pas
Fiancé
Film noir
Gateau
Papier-mâché
Cheers Chas! Have a nice day. Hasta la vista. Bon voyage.
Chris McEleny says.
“Simple, but important, point by Alex Salmond today. You don’t need a section 30 order to bring a Scottish independence referendum bill before the Scots parliament, so what are the Scottish Government waiting on?”
link to twitter.com
If there’s one thing I’ve come to realize in the last 12 months it’s not that Sturgeon is useless and independence is a dead letter (already knew that). It’s that ALBA was a deluded strategy for fixing things. The SNP possesses a political brand as powerful in Scotland as Coca Cola or McDonalds, and you can’t compete with that on the basis of reason or merit. Peter A. Bell was right about this.
We also have the minor inconvenience that, in an absence of reason and merit, the majority of ALBA seem to support a certain vicious dictator who is also the attempted instigator of WW3. So there’s that.
Over on Bella even Mike Small is conceding that the SNP will “likely implode” because the donkeys of the SNP membership aren’t following the indyref 2 carrot any more. Something is stirring as rank and file nationalism gradually realize their true political hopes have been betrayed for the leadership’s petty ambitions as expressed through woke diktat. Someone or something will eventually reclaim the SNP and put it on a serious political footing, but this “something” will not look like the mess that is ALBA.
Very off topic but I stumbled on a website that has me a bit baffled and am wondering if anyone knows anything about it.
The site is called HeraldAlba dot com. It seems to be quite new and, despite the name, appears to me to be definitely not Scottish. Although its articles are published in English, I’m pretty sure it’s not even British and I seriously doubt the native tongues of its authors are any variety of the English language. It is very strange.
Civil Servants openly admit how they played their part in thwarting Scottish independence in 2014, the same thing will happen again if we’re stupid enough to hold another indyref.
The conditions don’t exist in Scotland for a fair indyref.
Craig Murray’s grand assembly plan and is the way out of this rancid union.
link to twitter.com
@Confused 12:12 am
Thanks for your reply.
I can assure you I will be re-thinking my approach to this issue. It may take me some time to fully understand and integrate into my world view your carefully reasoned and brilliantly argued conclusions.
@Ruby 9:09
Doubt if Rev Stu is hiding behind your gate keeping. Soz.
Republicofscotland @ 9:46 am
“The conditions don’t exist in Scotland for a fair indyref.”
Peter A Bell appears to have nailed it in this btl comment on the National:
“The question is not and never has been, whether Scotland can survive as an independent nation, but whether Scotland can survive as a nation without independence.”
Postcolonial theory also tells us that a nation and ‘people’ will eventually perish if colonialism is allowed to continue.
‘Fixing’ another referendum would be easy-peasy for the imperial power and their numerous ‘little helpers’ in Scotland.
That leaves SSRG and Craig Murray options.
Ruby says:
13 June, 2022 at 9:02 am
You hijacked my post which had absolutely nothing to do with voting rights to post about the fuckin’ franchise. Did you do this to wind up Ellis?
I genuinely didn’t Ruby. I stated what I believed to be the truth, and salient to the point I was trying to make about setting up a referendum according to common and established principles in other countries, which aren’t even remotely controversial, instead of the made up, shit-stirring political shenanigans and false horizons we can reliably expect from Westminster. For me, that is simply comparing normal non-controversial practice, to abnormal misdirection and sophistry.
I couldn’t care less whether Ellis is wound up or not. I scroll past his crap without reading a word, and I habitually don’t feed trolls, so if I inadvertently fan the flames of a bin fire, I’m sorry, I didn’t know. And if I did miss something important in comments I don’t read, I’m sure life would go on as before.
No doubt some people feel the same about my posts, and that’s fine. I don’t lose sleep over that either.
I’m with Ricky Gervais, and the point he makes about the Billboard Ad for guitar lessons, and the fella who phones up the number in a total rage because he doesn’t want guitar lessons.
If you want guitar lessons, read on. If not, it’s fine, move on. This Ad isn’t meant for you.
Don’t be triggered seeing stuff that isn’t there to trigger you. I don’t set out to trigger people, but simply to push the big Independence Rock another mm along the road and in the right direction… even when it’s up hill some times.
If you “see” anything else, I plead not guilty. I have no wider agenda than Indy.
Republicofscotland says:
13 June, 2022 at 9:22 am
” Craig Murray’s blog is the bloody Studio 54 of them all!”
A wee Britnat shill such as yourself couldn’t lace Craig Murray’s boots, he went to prison to bring us what happened to Salmond, he revealed the Skripal affairs for what it was BS (an inside job), he’s exposed the terrible treatment of Assange, and brought us information on many other machinations of the UK government and other countries governments.
What has a wee shite like you done?
For a start, not taken the Britnat’s shilling like Craig Murray did as a member of HM Diplomatic Services for decades and then gone “oh ah wus only kidding so ah wus” once clocked up enough decades to be on the Civil Service pension for life.
Yeah, truth hurts, doesn’t it, Keyboard Warrior.
Republicofscotland says:
13 June, 2022 at 9:46 am
Craig Murray’s grand assembly plan and is the way out of this rancid union…
One of the ways certainly…
Sorry, long post following…
I’m not backtracking on anything I’ve said about Referendums, but a recent “tweak” in my philosophy has come about listening to SSRG Zoom Conferences & to an extent Jim Sillars talking about International Recognition.
Even in our own ranks, amongst fellow Yessers, some of us don’t believe a fair Referendum is possible, while others cannot see beyond a democratic resolution. To a degree, foreign Nations are similarly divided and may have similar preferences, and and they are going to judge different criteria for extending Scotland International Recognition.
We cannot force Nations to give us Recognition, only persuade and encourage them.
Thus Constitutional / Claim of Right arguments might win over some countries, while other Countries may be troubled by any failure of democracy. That’s their prerogative, and we need to respect it.
The “job” of Independence is to make Scotland’s Independence the most appealing prospect to the widest possible spectrum of people and foreign governments. As sovereign Nations, it is their prerogative to grant Scotland recognition, or not, and there are no fixed rules or fixed thresholds.
I hope that doesn’t sound downbeat, because I’m fully convinced Scotland is in a good place for securing widespread Recognition, but the simple truth is, even with the Treaty of Union shredded, Brexit declared unlawful subjugation, an IndyRef held and won with 99% YES vote, and 99 nations out of 100 already having given us Recognition, it is still the prerogative of that 1 remaining Nation to not recognise Scotland.
One nation in 100 won’t stop Scotland being an Independent Nation. You don’t need uniform recognition from every other nation, but it can get awkward if that one or two nations who don’t want to recognise Scotland can create hiccups or problems.
So yeah, let us rule everything in, and progress Indy on all fronts, because the more persuasive the case, the easier we will find it to be recognised.
And IF we can persuade a Westminster / English Parliament to resign itself to Scottish Independence, it is very difficult to imagine anybody finding grounds to not recognise Scotland.
But personally, I keep coming to this notion that the UK is in trouble with the NI Protocol, and may be facing EU sanctions on top of Brexit, if the UK breaks International Law.
But listen to this…
IF Scotland was to move quickly and present an Indy Scotland as a buffer state between a Brexited England and the EU, Scotland with a “bespoke” EU Membership could manage trade, and regulate compliance at Scotland’s borders, sorting through what could and could not go on to Europe, thereby allowing some English trade which met EU Compliance.
Scotland could borrow elements of EU membership, elements of Freeport status, and cite the existing cross-border trade in the UK as a mitigating circumstance for Scotland to seek this “Free market” status within a free market if that makes sense… Scotland is a bit like a Duty Free part in the Airport through checkin, but trade heading in or out of Scotland is managed differently according to which border it’s crossing. If that makes sense… Trade “lands” in Scotland, and only makes it out the “airport” if it passes customs, and “free” trade goes through the green lane… but on a National basis. Scotland is the Airport if you follow me.
Add to that a humongous new Container Port at Scapa Flow to handle big ships and big volumes of Trade…
You could easily see Scottish Independence securing immediate International Recognition from the 27 EU Nations, (plus another 38 Nations who have FTA’s with Europe), and dare we hope, perhaps even a Westminster Government albeit deeply reluctant to embrace Scottish Indy, obliged to agree amicable consent because a quasi-Freeport Scotland becomes the portal through which Brexited English Trade can pass through into Europe.
Right now, Scotland has no leverage to seek Recognition from London, so it seems inevitable they would dispute Independence rather than recognise it, but that could change if Scotland does a deal with Europe that gives a big incentive to help London out of it’s mess and the instability of a failing English economy.
I know that might sound blissfully naive, but don’t forget, if the Claim of Right approach makes Scottish Independence inevitable, we’re gone. See ya! London would be looking at a “Cliff Edge” Independence, or a “Soft” Independence with an EU Trade Deal as sweetener.
Depending on how the EU felt about a Freeport Scotland that wasn’t it’s competitor but actually benign towards the EU and EU Legislation, there could be options too for more than EU trade, but maritime US trade from the West, BRICS Maritime trade from the East.
Scottish Independence “could” be made very attractive, and profitable, to a lot of Nations, including England…
@Alf Baird 10:18
“Postcolonial theory also tells us that a nation and people will eventually perish if colonialism is allowed to continue”
I have no reason whatsoever to doubt that statement. In fact, it seems mostly self-evident.
But so what?
Why not accept that we live in a geographically bounded area called Scotland, which is inhabited by a complex mix of tribes and races, some of them ancient, some of them new, but with the best of the ethnic “old” Scots long since departed across the seas, never to return?
We need no complex theories to tell us that if the majority of the inhabitants of Scotland want to unilaterally and democratically take charge of their own destiny, then there is nothing at all stopping them. I stress “majority” and I stress “democratically”.
We need no complex theories to tell us that people are essentially self-interested. Show us that we will be better off as an independent country and we will vote for it, and those votes will cut across tribal, racial, ethnic and duration of residence lines.
So not only will grasping, greedy New Scots get more, but so will those whose sole interest in Indy is pay back for historical injustices wreaked on their great, great, great, great, grandparents. So a win-win.
Plus, the majority of Scots who frankly don’t care about anything more than their disposable income will be happy too.
Forget the theories. Show us the fucking money!
I think it is taking a long time for most people to realise that they are sovereign in Scotland. And the lack of understanding that follows.
In Scotland Sovereignty does not belong With a political party like in the rest of Britain
In Scotland Sovereignty does Not belong with the Scottish government.
The wording of the “claim of right” is very precise,
The people of Scotland are sovereign over the two mentioned above.
That fact is seldom advertised by NS,
the SNP,
by any british political party,
by the Scottish Government,
or the British Government,
They all try direct us to believe only in them, their authority of power, and themselves as your leader.
By this pretence, they keep them selves in well paid employment, and luxury, they have control of direction of political manoevre’s and control of all the people around them under their power.
It is important to their very existance,
And a abhorrence to ever let you know other wise.
That is why The sovereignty of the Scots is never spoken of by the devolved Scottish Government,
Why they chase a section 30,
Why they dangle excuses for years in front of us,
For to tell a Scot the truth about THEIR sovereign power over and above the Snp, or Scottish government,
Would mean the devolved government has no more excuses left in which to fool you,
You would suddenly see the pretence that is little more than a set of actors,
of all the Scottish political parties.
The wool over your eyes, as to who / whom has the power in Scotland
Deliberately maintained with their efforts,
Not to tell you, that under the ” Claim of Right ” you can choose and Change your government , and political parties any time you like.
John Main says:
13 June, 2022 at 12:13 pm
Forget the theories. Show us the fucking money!
—
Do your own research, ya lazy bastard.
James Che
Great stuff as usual. Yawn.
What happens next?
John Main
Spot on.
The expected response from one of the brain dead dreamers.
Breeks
‘I know that might sound blissfully naive’
About the only comment that you have ever posted that I am in full agreement with!
Do your own research,
John Main says:
Plus, the majority of Scots who frankly don’t care about anything more than their disposable income will be happy too.
Forget the theories. Show us the fucking money!
I take it you are referring to NO voters. You are wrong there’s a good 30% of NO voters who dont care about anything more than the Queen, Orange Walks, Rangers, being British, flying the Union Jack & drinking Buckfast & are probably big fans of fascism. That leaves only 25% who care only about money or pretend they do. They are all Unionists and you can spot them by the questions they ask. ie ‘What currency will we use? ‘Show us the fucking money!’
Is it worth spending extraordinary amounts of time discussing topics like ‘which currency we would use’ when only 25% are interested. Would it not be better to concentrate on the 30% and find ways to satisfy their wants?
John Main says:
13 June, 2022 at 10:17 am
@Ruby 9:09
Doubt if Rev Stu is hiding behind your gate keeping. Soz.
That’s what you would like to think but the fact is you & Ellis are being very disrespectful to Stu by continuing your ‘pissing contest’ about a subject he doesn’t want discussed on this forum. Seems you can’t take a subtle hint. Ever ask yourself why you have to go to all sorts of lengths to find substitute words for the situation you are describing? Is my initial assessment of you correct? Are you as ‘thick as fuck’?
James Che. says:
13 June, 2022 at 1:03 pm
Do your own research.
He doesn’t have to – nor anyone else.
You’re the one serving up king-sized portions of word salad and expecting everyone to swallow it as edible on nothing but your say-so.
Breeks says:
I’m with Ricky Gervais, and the point he makes about the Billboard Ad for guitar lessons, and the fella who phones up the number in a total rage because he doesn’t want guitar lessons.
If you phone me up and ask me if I want guitar lessons I think it would be fair enough for me to say no I don’t want guitar lessons, double glazing a fitted kitchen or whatever else you might want to sell me.
Anyway Breeks I’m sure you’ll be relieved to know you are no longer in my bad books for triggering Ellis and failing to posts links however….. 🙂
Breeks says:
Don’t be triggered seeing stuff that isn’t there to trigger you.
That’s all very well for you to say but I love my iRobots and so do the cats and it’s very upsetting when you describe some nasty troll as an iRobot with the lights out. 🙂 Lights are only out on the iRobots if you fail to listen to their very polite message ‘Please charge Roomba’. Your troll on the National sounds more like an android programmed with either RIRO, GIGO, CICO, SNP or WGD.
“I have no reason whatsoever to doubt that statement. In fact, it seems mostly self-evident.
But so what?”
Main @12.13pm.
F*ck You!
Mark Boyle says:
13 June, 2022 at 1:45 pm
Do your own research.
He doesn’t have to – nor anyone else.
—
It’s sheep we’re up against. They’re easily ‘spooked’.
But I went to a working-class University, what do I know?
THE BLOOD OF A SCOT.
The blood of a Scot that fights for his right to freedom,
uses thought processes to find alternative solutions to problems
And is enthusiastically renewed with energy,
It Is a rare and special blood type.
This Is very attractive to leeches
These specifically special identified leeches thrive mainly on the type of blood mentioned above,
These spineless creatures usually have one dominant leader.
You seldom find them on the back or the bodies of other groups,
Once they have identified their chosen targets,
This attracts other leeches of the same breed.
They provide no substantial benefit to their hosts,
They are parasitic by nature,
And often trigger the spread of the corruption disease,
This disease numbs the fingers and minds of their future victims in an attempt to demobilise them,
For a quite victim is easier to suck the life out of.
They act together as one colonising group,
With the sole purpose of using the host as a resource.
When these spineless invertebrates have used up that resource,
they often travel from country to country suctioned on to the luggage of politicians.
And hence we see they have arrived here,
Attacking victims, and spreading the corruption disease.
The common or latin name for these leeches is unknown in general around the world,
However in Scotland the name given, seems to derive from recognised old knowledge, of blood suckers.
The following two names are identified.
” the empire leech ”
Or
” The common commentary leech”
Neither can be observed to be beneficial to their host,
“For a start, not taken the Britnat’s shilling like Craig Murray did as a member of HM Diplomatic Services for decades and then gone “oh ah wus only kidding so ah wus” once clocked up enough decades to be on the Civil Service pension for life.”
Mark Boyle.
Is that it he once took the Queen Shilling so he shouldn’t call it out now he doesn’t take it, pathetic if you ask me.
Many folk who visit his blog from far and wide would disagree with you, hell George Galloway took the Queens Shilling (I don’t agree with his views on Scottish indy) but Galloway has done sterling work for the people of Palestine and Iraq.
Of course establishment bots loathe Murray for jumping ship, and put him down at every turn.
James Che
You do produce some shite on here but your latest attempt is up there with the worst of them.
Breeks @11.53am.
Breeks.
We shouldn’t need to bend over backwards to exit this union, we are not a region trying to break away from England we are a country returning to our pre-union position (Scotland is the elder of the two nations in the union) why would any other nation bar England object to that, of course you’ll have one or two, who will no matter what, but that won’t stop us dissolving the union.
A referendum is open to abuse the Civil Service has already admitted it worked against Scottish independence, as did Sir Nicholas MacPherson who was its head in 2014, no Alex Salmond’s and Craig Murray’s route out of this union is the way to go.
England will rail bitterly at losing its Golden Goose (Scotland), short of English tanks in George Square, and foot soldiers from Newcastle flooding Scotland as happened in the early 20th century England won’t be able to do much without incurring the wrath of the International community.
“You do produce some shite on here but your latest attempt is up there with the worst of them.”
Says Chas, the king of typing shite, this sites hoaching with Britnat shills today.
Scum 1
I note that you have not even attempted to answer any of the serious questions I have recently posed.
Is it because you and the rest of the Bonnie Purple Heather Brigade prefer to simply stick your heads in the sand and hope the questions simply disappear by magic? Or is it because you are thick?
Neil Mackenzie says:
13 June, 2022 at 9:46 am
Very off topic but I stumbled on a website that has me a bit baffled and am wondering if anyone knows anything about it.
The site is called HeraldAlba dot com. It seems to be quite new and, despite the name, appears to me to be definitely not Scottish. Although its articles are published in English, I’m pretty sure it’s not even British and I seriously doubt the native tongues of its authors are any variety of the English language. It is very strange.
It says it’s published by Herald Publishers based in Southampton.
link to tinyurl.com
You could perhaps phone or email to confirm. Could be very British funded by the ‘Union Unit’ as part of their campaign to save the precious Union.
As you say it’s very strange
James Che. says:
13 June, 2022 at 2:11 pm
THE BLOOD OF A SCOT.
{256 words and 8 pseudo paragraphs of doze prose later …}
The ear of a pig more like it.
Good grief, it’s like the stuff from those toe curling bad “local poetry” anthologies council libraries used to inflict on the world once a year ?.
Chas says:
12 June, 2022 at 4:37 pm
Are you not paying attention Andy? All the grandiose schemes to gain Independence, other than the somewhat inconvenient means of the ballot box, will be achieved by the mythical ‘WE’. Nobody has, as yet, got round to advising who the ‘WE’ actually are!
Ruby will be along shortly to add more of her insults. She is currently having a wee lie down………………..chewing the cud!
Chas not just a Unionist but a masochistic Unionist.
Only explanation for him tacking the following onto his Unionist drivel.
Ruby will be along shortly to add more of her insults. She is currently having a wee lie down………………..chewing the cud!
I’m guessing Chas is one of these punters who loves going to ‘Dick’s Last Resort’ restaurants & also likes to be hand-cuffed to the bed post with his Union Jack handcuffs insulted & whipped until he screams ‘tio’ or starts greetin’!
The least we can do to help Chas is to try or best to insult him. He likes it!
‘Chacun à son goût!’
Republic of Scotland.
There it is again.
The whites of their eyes are not rolling in disgust, but in fear,
That the Scots could break away, without having to down the route of a fixed British permission given referendum,
Leeches trying to hold on to their host.
Alf Baird@10.18am.
Good points and I agree entirely with the Peter A. Bell comment, the longer this farce of union goes on the more damage that it does to Scotland.
Republicofscotland says:
13 June, 2022 at 2:29 pm
Breeks @11.53am.
Breeks.
We shouldn’t need to bend over backwards to exit this union, we are not a region trying to break away from England we are a country returning to our pre-union position…
I agree with you 100%, and I’m unshakable in that conviction, but that’s the part of Scottish Independence that we are in control of. International recognition is the prerogative of the sovereign Nation which gives it. We can hopefully influence their opinion, but we cannot force the issue.
I am 1000% behind doing all the Constitutional / Claim of Right approaches, all the Test Cases, and subjugation etc… That will get us Independence, and very likely, more than adequate International recognition from the majority of Nations.
But life is easier when there’s a little bit of give and take. I don’t for one minute think Westminster would contemplate trading with Europe through Scotland for an instant, but I think the suggestion is credible, and it would get around the NI Protocol without Europe treating England like a pariah failed state.
Thus Scottish Independence, far from creating disturbance and instability, it is doing the opposite, and avoiding instability and actually improving a difficult and intractable problem.
And IF Scotland’s assistance makes England’s Brexit more viable, and prevents England’s economy from circling the drain, then both Scotland and England might step away from the Union with minimal animosity or instability, and scarcely a ripple of concern from other Nations.
“That the Scots could break away, without having to down the route of a fixed British permission given referendum,”
James Che.
And that terrifies them James, Scots have been gaslight into thinking we need permission from a foreign country’s government to hold an indyref never mind leave this God awful union, when in reality we don’t.
In any case the conditions don’t exist in Scotland for a fair indyref, and I don’t want one, and certainly not a half arsed poorly ran one under Sturgeon’s tenure, she cannot be trusted period.
All manner of opinions have been thrust into the limelight that Westminster is sovereign over Scots, in a bid to have us doubt ourselves, if Salmond had remained leader of the SNP we’d have dissolved this farcical union on Brexit. Sadly we have a treacherous b*stard in Bute House at the moment, who squealed (Their dead) in delight when a real indy party Alba gained no seats at the last Holyrood elections.
We’re in a f*ckin preposterous position right now, we’re being gaslight by Sturgeon and Johnson.
O/T: Fundraiser for £1000 for Scottish Sovereignty Research Group on gofundme.com under the name “Empowering the Nation”. David Henry is organising this on behalf of the SSRG to help towards the expenses of the roadshows etc etc – everyone on the group e.g. Sara Salyers is doing all the work for free but printing and so on costs.
Amount raised so far is £820. [Blimey, just noticed that it began in September.]
“But life is easier when there’s a little bit of give and take. I don’t for one minute think Westminster would contemplate trading with Europe through Scotland for an instant, but I think the suggestion is credible, and it would get around the NI Protocol without Europe treating England like a pariah failed state.
Thus Scottish Independence, far from creating disturbance and instability, it is doing the opposite, and avoiding instability and actually improving a difficult and intractable problem.
And IF Scotland’s assistance makes England’s Brexit more viable, and prevents England’s economy from circling the drain, then both Scotland and England might step away from the Union with minimal animosity or instability, and scarcely a ripple of concern from other Nations.”
Brekks @4.09pm.
Breeks credible yes, likely? not so, England has illegally subjugated Scotland for over three-hundred years, robbed it of its assets used its people as cannon fodder, and continues to drain its wealth (hidden in accounting tricks) even to this day.
link to businessforscotland.com
Why would it give up all of that and have a wealthy competing country next door just to gain access to the EU. Yes England cannot be trusted on upholding deals, however at this moment in time we don’t know the extent of the roll back of the NI Protocol or if the EU will take economic action against the UK on finding out the changes, apparently ( media info) the NI Protocol makes no mention of altering it, only that the Good Friday Agreement is not affected in any way.
Don’t get me wrong your idea is a viable one if unlikely one to succeed that’s is of course just my opinion, and I welcome any route out of this bucket of sewage union.
James Che. says:
13 June, 2022 at 3:32 pm
Republic of Scotland.
There it is again.
The whites of their eyes are not rolling in disgust, but in fear,
That the Scots could break away, without having to down the route of a fixed British permission given referendum,
Leeches trying to hold on to their host.
Aye, because the greatest “threat” to the union is a sad, lonely man running up multiple alias to agree with himself on a blog.
No wonder Sturgeon and her mates are laughing when you and your “friends” are the “alternative”.
Republicofscotland.
We are being gaslit by some of our own side for delay tactics also.
Being internationally recognised before we become a country, before we are independent?
Waiting for England to recognise us, so we can smooth the way for others?
Both those boats have sailed a long time ago,
1)
If Scotland is waiting for international recognition, There was no better opportunity than the Brexit vote,
The EU stance on this is we (Scotland ) voted in Brexit as part of Great Britain, and Went on to say that if we had gained independence it ( the EU ) would view Scotland in a different light.
That is why the EU never interfered when Scotland voted differently from England during Brexit.
International recognition will not even be considered until afterwards, because we are still part of Britain.
2) life is easier with a little bit of give and take,
But Scotland is doing an awful lot of given and not taken anything.
Not its oil, its food produce, its land nor its own sea, it has even given its people to wars it never started,
and years of Scots to emmigration.
Scotland has given up its laws,
its government
And its Sovereignty.
While waiting for approval from others,
that never comes.
Scotland needs to say, this is who we are,
This is our nation , our country.
Our people.
Our trade.
Our language.
Our traditions
And we are Sovereign as a people on our land in our country
Deal with it.
Breeks,
Alf Baird has explained many times, how the abused under colonialism seeks approval from the abuser.
Aye, because the greatest “threat” to the union is a sad, lonely man running up multiple alias to agree with himself on a blog.
Paranoid or what?
‘Missionary Mark’ believes James Che is Grousebeater, Breeks , Craig Murray, Barrhead Boy, Stuart Campbell & loads of others just because they all spelled grassroutes incorrectly. Do you think Mark might be part of the team investigating the Daily Record leak and that is why it’s taking so long?
Republicofscotland says: 13 June, 2022 at 4:34 pm
I agree that Breek’s scenario is unlikely but not improbable.
I don’t know the situation on the ground with Northern Irish Loyalists but from what I’ve read, it’s great tense in that community in regards to how Westminster has treated them.
If Westminster tries to appease the NI Loyalists, they risk a trade war with the EU on one side and a Biden presidency on the other that is looking for a feel good foreign policy success for the US mid term elections.
If things are as tense with the NI Loyalists as suggested, then Westminster could be facing a small scale return of the Troubles which isn’t going to go down as what Brexit and Boris’s legacy will be remembered for.
In that scenario, would they throw Scottish unionists under the bus, so to speak, and ‘allow’ independence to happen as Breeks described?
O/T
1. Dave Llewellyn’s court case drags on with him on bail for another 6 weeks. August 2nd they will hear submissions. This update is from Dave’s twitter – The Indy Ninja.
2. Eva Comrie tweets that BBC Radio Scotland and BBC Scotland at 4.00 today had M/s Sturgeon on to “fire the starting gun on indyref2” and “papers will be released tomorrow”. Has anyone heard anything more? I’m not holding my breath, by the way.
PacMan says:
13 June, 2022 at 7:47 am
Balmoral incident?
I had read our Nicola threw an iron across the room for some unknown reason, can’t figure why such a nice person would do that?
It was a crime passionnel even nice people can be pushed to their limits by love. Nicolette found her ‘petite amie francaise’ cosying up to Al Samonde in a boudoir in the Ballmoral Hotel and she blew a fuse & so did the Morphy Richard’s steam iron that she chucked at the pair.
She missed and iron went flying through the window.
It flew through the air with sparks & steam shooting out of it’s many round holes down to Prinkles Street. It knocked out Pierre Murrelle who was pretending to wait for his ‘wife’ at the entrance to the Ballmoral.
What he was actually doing there was waiting for his magpies to return with all the bling they’d picked up from the Ballmoral Penthouse suites. The poor man desperately needed to find a way to get his hands on £600K. Sadly poor Pierre ended up in hospital with a concussion & a series of small round burns all over his bald head.
His magpies were taken into care by the RSPB and lived happily ever after.
This is a work of fiction. Names, characters, business, events and incidents are the products of the author’s imagination. Any resemblance to actual persons, living or dead, or actual events is purely coincidental.
Ruby.
Who knows maybe the two grassroots/routes will will grow the same direction 🙂
@Republicofscotland says 13 June, 2022 at 4:34 pm
“I welcome any route out of this bucket of sewage union”
Do you fuck, eh Republic?
I outline a completely sane and rational route to Indy, concentrate on the financials so that a majority in Scotland becomes convinced that Yes means personal prosperity for them, and you tell me to get tae fuck.
Jeezo, Republic, just another bunch of lies from you.
Cos here’s the thing about you. Indy in itself will never do, will it? It’s got to be THE RIGHT KIND OF INDY.
Hence your ludicrous moniker, your unhinged diatribes about Satans and all of your calls for annihilation of other nations whose freedom DOES NOT MEET YOUR STANDARDS OF ACCEPTABLE IDEOLOGICAL PURITY.
So, Republic, once again, SHOW US THE FUCKING MONEY!
Or just continue to come across as a third-rate People’s Front Of Judea tribute act. Cos maybes that’s all you have to offer.
I like your take on the Balmoral incident.
Bal -) i think means Home/ station/ steading,
Moral) well most of us know what that means,
We just have a bit of a problem of association in tying the names to the meaning of the Building.
@Ruby says:13 June, 2022 at 7:00 pm
“This is a work of fiction”
Business as usual then.
sarah says:
13 June, 2022 at 6:54 pm
O/T
1. Dave Llewellyn’s court case drags on with him on bail for another 6 weeks. August 2nd they will hear submissions. This update is from Dave’s twitter – The Indy Ninja.
2. Eva Comrie tweets that BBC Radio Scotland and BBC Scotland at 4.00 today had M/s Sturgeon on to “fire the starting gun on indyref2” and “papers will be released tomorrow”. Has anyone heard anything more? I’m not holding my breath, by the way.
I found the radio programme on i-player but couldn’t find Dave’s twitter.
“I outline a completely sane and rational route to Indy”
Main
Sound and rational are not words I associate with the likes of you, as for showing you the money, its in the coffers of 11 Downing street and has been for centuries.
UDI is the quickest way to stop Scotland’s cash going to a foreign country’s coffers.
Here read this numbnuts. You Britnat shills are unbelievably stupid at times.
link to businessforscotland.com
John Main says:
13 June, 2022 at 7:13 pm
@Ruby says:13 June, 2022 at 7:00 pm
“This is a work of fiction”
Business as usual then.
Did you like it? It does have a happy ending. Did you get an invite to Kezia’s wedding today?
Just learned before listening to Sturgeon on the iplayer re firing starting gun that Kezia & Jenny tied the knot today in Fife.
What can one say. I just hope they will be as happy as my husband & I thought we would be. Any word of Baroness Sausage getting hitched?
Ruby la Magnifique
Merci pour le rire 🙂
Ruby.
Dugdale often works out of the ultra unionist John Smith building in the University of Glasgow, where unionist plans to thwart Scottish indy are mulled over, its also a secure stopover for Britnat spooks.
The pillow talk between her and her partner the SNP’s Transport minster Jenny Gilruth must be interesting.
Anyway the ITV controlled STV (it broadcasts no Scottish content) news saw their political reporter crack a joke at Sturgeon the betrayers expense. He asked her if indyref bill would reach the Holyrood chamber before a ferry was built, the betrayers face fell on hearing it probably because neither will materialise before the end of the decade.
link to bbc.co.uk
Nicola firing the starting gun.
Republicofscotland says:
13 June, 2022 at 7:25 pm
Here read this numbnuts. You Britnat shills are unbelievably stupid at times.
link to businessforscotland.com
You mean the accounting trick that Niall Aslen pointed out back in 2008 and which I referred to on this very blog a week ago?
link to wingsoverscotland.com
Do keep up!
Or at least have a clue about the basics, hobby nationalist, instead of treating them as any sort of stunning new revelation …
Robert Hughes says:
13 June, 2022 at 7:32 pm
Ruby la Magnifique
Merci pour le rire ?
De rien mon ami.
Mark Boyle.
As Main said further up the thread so what, the sun shines on a dogs balls every once in a while as well, you’ll not get any brownie points from me laddie that’s for sure.
Republicofscotland says:
13 June, 2022 at 7:56 pm
Mark Boyle.
As Main said further up the thread so what, the sun shines on a dogs balls every once in a while as well, you’ll not get any brownie points from me laddie that’s for sure.
The only brown stuff we’re likely to get from you, champ, is heaps of bullshit.
@Republicofscotland says:13 June, 2022 at 7:25 pm
“as for showing you the money, its in the coffers of 11 Downing street and has been for centuries”
Wrong again, Repo.
The money is long since pissed up against a wall.
FFS, Repo, Private Eye did a cartoon of Auld Broon himself pissing an enormous “£” sign against a wall, and he vacated No 11 in June 2007.
Johnson’s amended Protocol published.
link to publications.parliament.uk
“At the heart of the new plan is a new “green and red lane approach backed by commercial data and a trusted trader scheme” – with the green lane for goods staying in NI and the red lane for items at risk of going on to the Republic or for traders not in the trusted trader scheme.
Non-commercial goods such as post and parcels would automatically go through the green lane. Strong penalties would be used to discourage abuse of the green lane, with a government briefing saying: “Traders who abuse the new system will face robust penalties, including civil and criminal charges—and would not be able to use the green lane in the event of non-compliance.”
The Government said this approach would mean that “goods staying in the UK would be freed of unnecessary paperwork, checks and duties, with only ordinary commercial information required rather than customs processes or complex certification requirements for agrifood products”
As briefed last week, the bill would allow for “a dual-regulatory regime that gives choice to NI business…goods can be placed on the market in NI if they meet either UK rules, EU rules, or both— ensuring that consumers can access the products they want, and avoiding gaps on supermarket shelves.””
EU bigwigs to mull over it, “EU vice president Maros Sefcovic said that the EU would consider restarting the legal action which it began last year over past unilateral grace periods which the Government put in place, and consider fresh legal action.”
link to belfasttelegraph.co.uk
Main @8.32pm.
I’m talking about Scotland sending it cash to England for centuries and getting pocket money back that’s why I mentioned 11 Downing street, the daylight robbery is still going on today.
Now get that single brain cell into concentration mode, picture the scenario (no sexist context meant) Man comes home form work (Scotland) he give his wife (England) the pay packet, she takes half, and gives him half back and then says to him, right your monies for the house keeping.
That’s the setup between Scotland and England in this utterly f*cked up onesided union. No country can progress whilst giving half its cash to another country.
@ Ruby at 7.16: TheIndyNinja1 is Dave Llewellyn’s twitter – no spaces and a 1 on the end.
Republicofscotland says:
“We’re in a f*ckin’ preposterous position right now, we’re being gaslighted by Sturgeon and Johnson.”
Indeed, Republic of Scotland, that is the three hundred year old deception that Sturgeon and Johnson are desperate to maintain, that we somehow need “permission” to leave this rancid Union. Since when did one signatory to a bilateral treaty require the permission of the other to withdraw? An obvious non sequitur if ever there was one. A second independence referendum would only be another ploy by Sturgeon and Johnson to perpetuate the Union. That ship has sailed and we are wise to the ruse. The Claim of Right is our get out of gaol free card which no one, not even Westminster with all their pompous bluff, can gainsay.
Republicofscotland says:
13 June, 2022 at 4:34 pm
Why would it give up all of that and have a wealthy competing country next door just to gain access to the EU. Yes England cannot be trusted on upholding deals, however…
Well, the big plus from the EU is a realistic chance of International Recognition coming quickly, and Scottish Independence being established and recognised unequivocally. That “might” happen anyway, but on the other hand, Westminster could cry foul, and call on it’s Global Policeman buddy, the USA to claim Scottish Independence compromises NATO’s nuclear capacity, and then demand NATO nations do not recognise Scotland.
For security, the UK Government moves the UK’s Navy to secure the UK’s oil reserves, and Scottish Independence is presented to the world as a failed coup, and anybody who disagrees has to fight NATO ships to get to Scotland’s oil.
Or, instead, the EU could provide Scotland significant protection from the worst of Westminster and any pact with the USA to destabilise Scotland.
And just because Indy Scotland say’s it’s joining the EU doesn’t mean that it does.
If Scotland had the balls and the negotiating team to do it, Scotland could actually have a bespoke EU “Plus” Membership, where Scotland had similar deals with the EU, the USA, BRICS, and Brexited England.
Scotland would be a giant marketplace, a bit like a green zone, where Trade is free and easy, but the customs checks regulate the produce, standards and compliance criteria at the Scottish Border. For example, nothing goes to the EU which isn’t EU compliant, and the right tariffs and trade agreements are enforced and respected. No smuggling, no corruption. If it doesn’t comply, it doesn’t leave Scotland.
It’s a vast over simplification, but Scotland is like a great big duty free zone, buy and sell what you want, but the produce, standards, compliance, duty etc is payable at the point of departure.
I suppose you could compare Scotland to an off shore tax haven, except for trade goods rather than money laundering and tax evasion, but with Scotland being strict and diligent about the various rules and laws. Nothing crooked allowed.
I cannot frankly see Europe going for that, but with Scotland in the EU, and under the European Justice, I can see the EU being a lot more relaxed, about “special” status for Scotland, and latitude to handle some English and non-EU trade under appropriate scrutiny and handling… EU membership with benefits…which is kinda what the N I Protocol is…. Kinda..
Hi Republicofscotland at 7:35 pm.
You typed,
Anyway the ITV controlled STV (it broadcasts no Scottish content)
A lot of us are getting our TV programming from the web these days. On STV Player, you will find,
link to player.stv.tv
link to player.stv.tv
There is also ITV content on STV Player that is not on the ITV Hub, like “The Palace”.
Criticism where it’s due but unfounded criticism defeats your argument.
Brian @9.42pm.
Brian.
STV is supposedly meant to be a Scottish channel yet its broadcasts no Scottish content, why should we have to go onto STV Player to see thirty years old content such as Take the High Road, when the channel proclaims its serves Scots.
I sent them a cheeky e.mail and they replied informing me that ITV now controls STV’s content.
Hi Republicofscotland.
One of the mysteries I’ve come across recently is that although The Palace was originally on ITV, it’s not on the ITV Hub. It is, however, on the STV Player.
I would have thought that an ITV series, which is on the STV Player (like many other ITV series) would be available on the ITV Hub as well. Strange…
RoS
These are the points Sturgeon should be raising. ITV is an English organisation churning out English programs and screening English national football matches while Scottish audiences have to pay sky to watch their team.
We are a country not a county yet Yorkshire has more presence that Scotland.