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Wings Over Scotland

A question for Andrew Neil

Posted on October 25, 2015 by

Alert readers who follow our Twitter account, like all sensible people do, may have noticed we’ve had a few exchanges with the BBC presenter Andrew Neil since we published a couple of articles about his interview with the SNP’s Angus Robertson on The Sunday Politics last week.

The debate centred around a claim Neil put to Robertson:

“You go on and on, your party, about ‘austerity, austerity’ – how much has the Scottish Government budget been cut in the past five or six years? […] In real terms there’s been no cut.

It seems fair to say the matter’s been in some dispute since then.

Last night Neil sent us an odd tweet:


It’s odd because it’s addressed directly to us, yet talks as if we’re a third person (“little WingsTroll of Bath”). But the second bit is intriguing. In his reply to our question about whether Scotland has escaped Tory austerity, Neil says “Nope”.

That would seem to be a pretty clear statement that there HAVE been cuts, yet he immediately goes on to reassert that the “overall” budget has been “flat in real terms”, which would mean there HADN’T been cuts. And those obviously can’t both be true, so we need to try to find out what Neil does and doesn’t consider to be a “cut” in any useful, meaningful sense of the word.

We put a scenario to him on Twitter last night, which he hasn’t yet replied to, so we’ll repeat it here (updated with some more precise and realistic figures) and see if we can get somewhere in clearing this whole thing up.

You’re a 32-year-old single mother, working part-time and in receipt of tax credits and housing benefit, just barely making ends meet. One month your landlord realises the rent on your poky one-bedroom flat is below the market rate and suddenly hikes it by £20 a week, or £80 a month.

Luckily it’s so cheap that it’s still within the allowable rent levels, so your housing benefit goes up by enough to cover the increase.

But at the same time the government slashes your tax credits by £80 a month under its new welfare reforms.


Between the two changes your top-line household income is exactly the same as it was before. But the housing benefit increase obviously goes straight to your landlord and you don’t see any of it.

The actual amount of money in your pocket you can spend on paying your bills and feeding your family has fallen by a catastrophic £80 a month.

So here’s the question: overall, have you suffered a “cut” or not?

We sincerely welcome Mr Neil’s engagement with us so far. We hope he’ll answer.

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171 to “A question for Andrew Neil”

  1. Lesley-Anne says:

    Just in case wee Andra Neil does not supply you with his answer Stu I’ll do it for him. 😉

    As a result of the rent being increased by her landlord and her housing benefits being increased accordingly then she is in fact no worse off … obviously! 😀

    Under the current Tory government, David Cameron is god … all hail David Cameron, everyone is better off. We now have a government at long last that is a caring government and is working non stop to help and protect the workers. 😉 That is the MILLIONAIRE workers by the way NOT the plebs!

  2. Capella says:

    Why doesn’t Andrew just accept your offer to debate this on his TV show. Then maybe I would watch it for the first time.
    Come on Andrew. You’re not frightened of the Rev of Bath are you?

  3. James Mills says:

    Andrew Neil is an honourable , self-obsessed Tory drone who will undoubtedly see the error of his ways and invite you( Rev ) on to his little soiree of a show ”This Week” in order to profusely apologise for his accidentally misleading figures .
    While there you can bask in the afterglow of those other self-obsessed eminent politicians of yesteryear Portillo and Abbott , and maybe even find out why this absurd waste of taxpayer’s money is still on the air .

  4. handclapping says:

    There is no good confusing him with reality. He is still mired in the wonder world of Gordon Brown’s government finance when figures only meant what Gordon meant them to mean at the time and for the purpose for which they were produced. At all other times they were protected by the Official Secrets Act and could only be found on the negative axis of the imaginary plane.

    You could ask him, as also Dunky, how many angels can dance on the head of a pin and get a more believable answer.

  5. Murray McCallum says:

    From what I have seen Andrew Neil claim, he does not understand the basic accounting concept of restating prior year actuals to match the current year.

    This enables you to make more meaningful comparisons.

    If there has been a change in policy, e.g. the Scottish government recording expenditure that was previously reported elsewhere, then it is meaningless to compare simplistic total expenditure without restating prior year results onto a similar basis.

  6. barrytablet says:

    Very neatly put. Can’t see him responding in any meaningful way. Have seen him prevaricate maliciously so many times – especially on Scottish matters. He is our very own Uncle Tom.

  7. Alasdair Martin says:

    He’s clearly pursuing a semantic point.

    It’s an interesting choice of language though, hardly polite on his part . . .

  8. Effijy says:

    Brillo Heid -0 Wings of Bath 1.

    He can’t reply, as like Jeane Freeman, you just punched his ticket and put him off the train.

    Any scrap of human decency would see a better man admit is error and concede that the facts, as you put them, are irrefutable.

    We have been cut, we are being cut, we will continue to be cut!

    Veni, Vidi, Veci.!

  9. thomaspotter2014 says:

    Perhaps he may enlighten us on EVEL while he’s at it.

    No mention so far.

  10. galamcennalath says:

    Brilliant analogy!

  11. Bob Mack says:

    Neil is frightened of the Rev. As I would be, given the scope of his knowledge and research. Neils’ language in reply indicates his frustration ,as does the missing answer.
    Perhaps he is waiting on an answer from his researchers.

    Be in no doubt, and I truly mean this, the Rev would take Neil apart at the seams.

    Neil thinks this too ,and that is why the Rev wil NEVER get an invite to debate on his show.

  12. ArtyHetty says:

    And private rents can be increased every year, I think by as much as 15%. However, they have to give some weeks advance notice of this increase and cannot just legally hike up the rent. They also have to serve a notice to quit, and then a new lease. Unless laws re this have changed, which would not surprise me. The tenant can challenge the rent rise, but will likely end up homeless then.

    Private renting causes untild stress due to the insecurity of it, especially for those with children or who are carers.

    Going on some fb pages, A Neil has lost many fans lately, though why they were fans in the first place defies logic, he is just too shouty. Shouting usually means you have lost the argument before it has even started. I don’t suppose he needs to understand finances of the poor and struggling sections of society at all.

    Just wish these people would stop protecting the tories and their cruel, immoral policies.

  13. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “He’s clearly pursuing a semantic point.”

    So am I, hence the question.

  14. heedtracker says:

    He won’t answer but he knows the answers. That’s what makes him probably the best UKOK TV politics dude, certainly on rabid tory beeb. Its just that he’s also the archetypal running dog lackey. Check wiki, under capitalist running dog lackey. Uncle Rupert has that one and in the US he has equally aggressive far right liggers.

    Good boy Andrew.

  15. Thepnr says:

    No matter how ignorant you may be of politics or current events there is no way it could have escaped your notice that for the past 7 years the UK has been running an austerity agenda which involves the slashing of public spending.

    Other than Health and Pensions no other budget has escaped the cuts. Andrew Neil assumes his audience are illiterate numpties.

    So come on then Mr Neil.

    When are you going to go head to head with Mr Campbell? Do you have the balls to risk getting a showing up? I doubt you do.

  16. Big Jock says:

    I think it was his way of accepting he was wrong but at the same time being po faced.

  17. Thepnr says:


    Just stop it! Stop it ya nutter. LOL no one uses language quite the way you do. Oh! and did I remember to tell you your a nutter 🙂

  18. ScottieDog says:

    And of course the Tories have helped to continue house price inflation with policies like Help To Buy which obviously has a knock on effect on rents.
    Win win for banks.

  19. Dr Jim says:

    If you speak fast and with conviction you can spout all the lies you want and invariably get away with them, the viewer is left with the impression that Andrew Neil knows what he’s talking about because his timing’s good, he’s a Pro TV interviewer

    Unless you’re used to public speaking and using the rise and fall of you’re opponents speech against him you can’t out debate a big mouth who’s confident and prepared to lie at will…Unless…

    There’s an independent arbiter which in the the case of the Rev do we really think one of those could be found

    I think not, Stu would be subjected to the full and well rehearsed threat to mankind worse than Abu Hamza with a grenade between his teeth

    For what it’s worth, have nothing to do with debating this creature, just keep on proving him wrong till he breaks down and cries handing Wings over Scotland even bigger publicity then he’s already doing

    Why change a winning formula by playing away from home with his referee and his Baw and his pals geein him haunders

  20. Mike Fenwick says:

    DEL – v – AME/TME appeared to be the areas where cut – v – No Cut originally arose. But boy, does using DEL or AME/TME give me a headache, so:

    DEL is “Wur Dosh”.

    AME/TME is “Wur Dosh + “Someone Else’s Dosh”.

    Your analogy matches that, and put in even simpler terms just look for who has a “+” and who has a “-“.

  21. galamcennalath says:

    Just watched a couple of Neil interviews.

    His standard technique seems to be to make a contentious statement, then ask a question based in it. The way to handle this is to challenge the statement, thus making the question irrelevant.

    Jeans Freeman did this superbly when Neil made a false statement about the relationship between SNHS and WM funding. She challenged the statement.

    Her other nice turn of phrase was to say that Neil knew well the statement was wrong. That implies politely either he was lying, or if he actually didn’t know it was wrong, he was ill informed. very nicely done!

    There is a pattern on how he sets up questions.

    Angus Robertson should have had the knowledge to challenge the statement, not fell apart by poor answering.

  22. heedtracker says:

    Thepnr says:
    25 October, 2015 at 1:41 pm

    Hey! That’s progressive liberal nutter, to you 😀

  23. Lesley-Anne says:

    Just a couple of wee points here.

    1) When oor wee Andra does finally agree to *ahem* debate with you Stu make sure you have it in writing from him that he will NOT, under any circumstances, interrupt you whilst replying to his questions. When he then DOES interrupt you then you can wave the signed piece of paper live on air and claim, quite rightly, that he has broken a signed promise and is thus showing himself to be totally untrustworthy! 😀

    2) Should wee Andra interrupt you the just keep quiet and make him ask the question again or why you are not answering at which point you can quite clearly say “I’m waiting to make sure YOU are finished talking over me so I can answer you question in piece and quiet!” 😉

    3) Give me £500 on the Rev beating 5 barrel loads of shite out of wee Andra! 😀

  24. Ruby says:

    “Still clinging to the bollocks by little WingsTroll over Bath?”

    The Pot Scrubber is rattled! You can understand why he did everything to ensure is IQ was kept a secret.

    My answer to this UKOK Better Together Hate Preaching Con Artist is Yes I still believe the info provided by Wings Over Scotland.

  25. seanair says:

    If you ever get in the studio with him Rev. Stu could you use his own trick and throw in in his face “why did you ruin The Scotsman?” Splutter, splutter.

  26. HandandShrimp says:

    Andrew has such a neat line in condescending pomposity in his Twitter style that makes this so worth pursuing 🙂

    Comparing budgets requires comparing like for like. It stands to reason that a budget might increase if a new responsibility or line item is transferred between one department (or government) to the other.

    However, what determines whether there has been a cut or not is what has happened to the funding for the core elements over the compared periods. Resource Del is down by 10% and that is what pays for the vast majority of Holyrood activity. Changes to the total budget to cover non-resource Del like pensions which were formally paid for by another department is interesting in terms of the expanding role and budget of Holyrood but it has nothing to do with austerity.

  27. BBC leading presenters own the facts as they are untouchable in the establishments eyes, so finish your cereal and stop this undemocratic nonsense.

  28. ClanDonald says:

    The Tories have shown they don’t give a toss if poorer families have less in their pockets, but have they done any research or even considered the impact on the effects of tax credit cuts on the retail, restaurant, travel and leisure sectors?

    £12 billion of cuts is equivalent to half a million jobs at an average of £24,000 a year salary. This is the amount of money that people will no longer have in their pockets to spend in supermarkets, cinemas, restaurants and shops.

    What’s going to happen when turnovers are down next year and businesses have to start laying off even more poorly paid staff who will probably end up on the dole and having their benefits cut due to sanctions. How much higher will the benefits bill be as a result?

    Where’s the research into these impacts? Have the tories even considered this? Do they even care, blinded as they are by anti-welfare ideology.

    Perhaps it’s because the few who will be better off from cuts to the top tax rate and inheritance tax are disproportionately located in the south east that the tories aren’t bothered how this effects the rest of the country. London will get an economic boost at the expense of the rest of the country.

  29. Grouse Beater says:

    Semantics, semantics? Just feel the quality, already!

    Frivolousness aside, I got involved with the “Scottish” journalist Andrew Ferguson Neil’s undignified spat on Twitter, so surprised was I to see him toss away good taste. He lacked due gravitas befitting his position in the BBC hierarchy, which is, to be precise, wide of girth and full frontal.

    Here is the skinny on the making of another Clarkson:

  30. ClanDonald says:

    @Handandshrimp: Would adding in the pension liabilities to the 2008/9 year give a more accurate like-for-like figure, making a more accurate comparison with this year?

  31. ClanDonald says:

    And another thing, when interviewing Tim Farron today, Andrew Neil claimed that membership of the Lib Dems was down. Is this a lie? By all accounts their membership has surged. When was Neil comparing from? Victorian times?

  32. One_Scot says:

    Stuart, to be fair Andrew Neil couldn’t tie your shoelaces.

  33. Dan Huil says:

    Andrew “Scottish Cringe” Neil is the kind of Scot – the supine grovelling kind – the unionist establishment loves.

  34. CameronB Brodie says:

    “He’s clearly pursuing a semantic point.”

    So am I, hence the question.

    How very post-modern of you. 🙂

    Continuing education in postmodernity: four semantic tensions
    International Journal of Lifelong Education
    Volume 13, Issue 4, 1994

    This paper explores, analytically and speculatively, the implications of postmodernity for the selection and formulation of descriptive concepts in continuing education practice. Postmodernity is seen as being contemporary culture that is informed by:

    (1) a belief in and commitment to the interpretative nature of all perception, the contingency of all belief, and the ontological contingency of being; and

    (2) a profound scepticism towards all claims to the privileging of knowledge.

    Within such a framework, continuing education is seen as tending strongly towards being: reflexively contextualized, indeterminate, expressive, open, participative, heterodox, phenomenal, critical and de?differentiated. These features and tendencies are used as a framework for the postulation of four interrelated semantic tensions which are seen as arising in postmodern continuing education practice. Each tension is viewed as two opposing inclinations, such that for each one there are good reasons for inclining towards it, but that to do so ? and to the extent that one does so ? is to limit, compromise or threaten the possibility of satisfying the contrary inclination. The four tensions are descriptively labelled as: aggregation versus fragmentation, consistency versus flexibility, description versus evaluation, and associationality versus immediacy.

  35. Jim Mitchell says:

    Lets remember the wise words of Alex Salmond regarding Andrew Neil, (from Salmond’s book), “I like the fact that his bias is not unconscious (like most of the London operation)but very conscious indeed”.

    Alex could have had you in mind when he wrote that Rev!

  36. Alastair says:

    Wait a minute I’m suffering from Michelle Thomson attention deficite. Media saturation and now nothing to satisfying a fix. She must have done so, so, much more wrong.
    Interlude – Tony Blair still trying to justify war in Iraq in 30 mins. War – a cloak for murder.
    I so so hope MT is cleared. Good luck MT.

  37. kendomacaroonbar says:

    I’ve always considered Brillo to be a Mark 5 on the Spit Flecked
    Cochrane scale (1-10) ergo he’s not the full Cochrane but half of him is.

  38. yesindyref2 says:

    I don’t do twitter or facebook thank God, but it’s worth pointing out that you can find Rev’s twitter by googling – wings over scotland twitter – or bookmarking the URL

    helps to pass the time at sea.

  39. Dave Hansell says:


    That is probably the most salient point I’ve seen this week even if it does underestimate the problem it is highlighting.

    The £12 billion cuts in Government spending you refer to are merely the tip of the iceberg because the Eton trifles that pass for a Government are committed to achieving a Government surplus by 2020 and have even legislated this onto the statute book.

    As you accurately allude to with your example, this can only be done by putting the rest of us, whether we are small or medium sized businesses or private individuals, deeper into debt penury. Basic schoolboy arithmatic, all equations have to balance, tells us that any Government surplus must and will result in a loss within the private sector.

    And it is here where the debt problem lies. All the bullshit about Government debt and deficits exists to detract attention away from the far larger debt problem of the private sector which has balloned out of control. The only way for the Government to run a surplus is to take money from the non Government sector, which is not just the private sector but me, thee, and the local economy in which your wages depend on my expenditure and vice versa.

    Those making these decisions are either economically illiterate and cannot grade basic arithmetical concepts or economic terrorists. Those like Neil who knowingly parrot what Churchill once described as terminological inexatitude bring the oldest profession into disrepute.

  40. schrodingers car says:

    they were sure they would win the ref, but as it drew closer they got a shock, the relief at NO was palpable. but YES didn’t stop and neither did project fear. the 56 blew a hole in their underpants and the trend is up. they are powerless to stop it, this is just andra’s frustration boiling over.

    the link to eric joyce by conan on the last thread highlighted something else.

    since may, it has become common knowledge that labour msps and councilors are toast in the next 18 months. neil also knows that the united front against yes is on very shaky ground.

    any pretence at impartiality at the bbc has gone. I can smell their fear. yes2 is coming

  41. heedtracker says:

    Just when you think Pacific Quay shills couldn’t stoop any lower-

    ‘Relationships broken’
    And he painted a picture of families divided by the independence referendum campaign.
    “Last week I met a woman in Anstruther who told me that the relationship with her daughter had broken down,” he said.
    “It had been like that for over a year. It started with an argument about independence.
    “Her family is not alone. An opinion poll found that a quarter of a million people believe their relationship with a friend or family member has been permanently damaged as a result of the independence referendum.
    “For the sake of the country, we need to move on from those divisions.”
    ‘Yes’ voter plea
    The Lib Dem leader added: “Nicola, our constitution has had our time. Surely our police, our NHS and our schools deserve our time now.”

    Is there anyone else in that cupboard with Wullie, BBC creeps, the jannie, his cat…

  42. heedtracker says:

    “An opinion poll found that a quarter of a million people believe their relationship with a friend or family member has been permanently damaged as a result of the independence referendum.”

    Says Wullie and BBC lie machine but as per, no link to their poll. Good old desperate frauds of Pacific Quay.

  43. yesindyref2 says:

    Nearly time for the Scotland Australia v Argentina match. I feel some sympathy with Australia because they know they should probably not be there, though they would have had 2 minutes to win a Scotland scrum on the 22 and score something, anything. Yes they appealed for the penalty but then it did seem to be offside if they didn’t see the ball come off Phipps. They’ve been open about it since then.

    So I’m impartial. The same couldn’t be said about Joubert, I hope he doesn’t get the final and wreak final devastation on the Rugby World Cup.

  44. Pam McMahon says:

    Last week I met a woman in Anstruther who told me that the relationship between herself and sanity had broken down because Wullie Rennie wouldn’t stop banging on about independence. “It’s been like that for over a year, when we should be talking about the Carmichael effect on my few remaining MSPs”

  45. Alastair says:

    I for one would love Nicola to go very politically incorrect and say Wee Willie Fu… Off
    What in real terms have you contributed, especially while giggling in bed with the Toriies, to the benefit of the people of Scotland.
    I want to offer to all politicians free of charge a mirror. Contact me for a free mirror. Look at yourself every morning. You are the people’s representative. The people who’s votes you accepted. that voted you into your parliament. Sorry the peoples parliament. You are our representative to represent us,our opinions not yours, our aspirations not yours. If yours differ from our’s then you are a a shyster a delusion.
    If Parliament is not for the people when it is no Parliament.

  46. galamcennalath says:

    “…. families divided by the independence referendum campaign.”

    IMO ill feeling has come about largely because of the way BT conducted their disgraceful fearmongering and deceitful campaign. Then, just as Yes were about to win in a contest between DevoFA and Indy, Cameron et al changed it to Home Rule versus Indy. And then, backtracked and started talking EVEL!

    Obviously and rightly, anger should be directed at those figures responsible for the debacle, however it is understandable but sad that some of it is present on a personal friends/family level.

    Had BT played ‘with a straight bat’, and had Cameron not totally changed the contest within the purdah period, we would be living in a different Scotland!

  47. ronnie anderson says:

    Noo Rev dont be getting to friendly wie Brillo Heid, patting him oan the heid can lead tae injury, Brillo Pads ur made oota swarf.

  48. Colin McLeod says:

    Do you ever notice when Andra interviews anybody on the big screen it’s sometimes delayed slightly, so he’s constantly interrupting them and getting them flustered.
    This is deliberate.
    What kind of interviewer (coward) would engineer that?

  49. Onwards says:

    galamcennalath says:
    25 October, 2015 at 1:55 pm

    Jeans Freeman did this superbly when Neil made a false statement about the relationship between SNHS and WM funding. She challenged the statement.


    The Scottish NHS funding seems to be a gray area for many, and as long as the name remains similar, it will be a barrier to winning a second referendum.

    I was listening to Radio Scotland’s ‘Breaking the News’ show yesterday, and they had some Irish guy on talking about a second referendum

    “I don’t think they’d win it.
    Scotland in 5 years time.. will be older and therefore more dependent on the NHS which is funded across the whole of the UK.
    So good luck with that Nicola!”

    No-one corrected him, including Brian Taylor.

  50. JLT says:

    galamcennalath says:

    “…. families divided by the independence referendum campaign.”

    IMO ill feeling has come about largely because of the way BT conducted their disgraceful fearmongering and deceitful campaign.

    Absolutely agree with everything you said there, mate.

    The Nationalists didn’t create the bitter feeling that exists. This has been caused, as you say, by a government, other various parties, and a media outlet that has poisoned a political debate that it now can’t quite work out how to move away from the lies without being truly exposed. Scottish Labour as an example, know that they told porkies; have lost a huge amount in support, but know they can’t tell the truth as it would ammunition for the ‘Yes’ campaign. Oh, what a wonderful deceitful web that they have spun …and ensnared themselves within it!

    The real bitterness lies with a percentage of the ‘No’ camp. And no way is it all of them. Very far from it. There are folk who voted ‘No’, but have stated that if the argument is right, and the economic conditions can be met, then they are open to a very different future.

    But there is that percentage who no matter what (even if Scotland found gold and mineral wealth in every mountain, oil pouring out of the house taps and would have free energy for eternity), these folk won’t go for it! They’re angered and terrified at the same time at the thought of independence.

    But …nothing lasts forever. The Union will end one day. It’s just a matter of how, when and why. But it is coming …and these hardcore ‘No’ voters will have to deal with it; one way or another.

  51. Another Union Dividend says:

    My father who believed everything the BBC said worked in a microbiology lab and was keen on scientific programmes.

    In early 1974 (?) we all sat down to watch an edition of To-Morrow’s World and this edition dealt with North Sea Oil and featured a denim clad young “economist” who sternly told us that it wasn’t Scotland’s Oil and drew lines on a map of the North Sea to clearly show that the vast majority of oil was outwith Scottish Waters.

    My father, who didn’t vote SNP at the time, was outraged and wrote his first letter of complaint to the BBC about the biased reporting by one Andrew Neil and was aghast that a reputable scientific programme should be used for political point scoring.

  52. Thepnr says:

    O/T This debate in the HOL on Scottish Devolution which took place in October last year after the referendum is well worth a read if you have an hour or so your life available to waste.

    Some exciting snippets lol.

    Baroness Liddell of Coatdyke (Lab):

    “My Lords, more than 2 million people in Scotland voted no; almost two to one. That is where the mandate lies.”

    “Frankly, it was the worst election I have ever seen. It was divisive, it was aggressive, it was thoroughly unpleasant and it did not represent the good people of Scotland, whom we saw weeks beforehand at the Commonwealth Games welcoming the world. And, yes, in some places there was an anti-English feeling, and Mr Salmond and Ms Sturgeon were the joint architects of that.”

    Lord MacGregor of Pulham Market:

    “It is really quite simple. If the Scottish people have Scottish issues, as delineated now, voted upon entirely in the Scottish Parliament, then the same ought to apply to purely English issues in the English Parliament, and it should be English Members of Parliament who should vote on them.”

    “I shall speak first about English votes for English laws. I have just looked up the Hansard of one of the earlier debates that we had in the House of Commons on devolution shortly after I entered Parliament in 1974, a Scot representing an English constituency.”

    “There is a strong feeling in the country—I have long felt this in East Anglia—that the formula is unduly favourable to Scotland. Current figures show that public expenditure per head in East Anglia, where I come from, is £7,865, in England £8,529 and in Scotland £10,152. I believe that this issue must be addressed.”

    “In conclusion, I believe that this must all be tackled in the negotiations and that the Barnett formula should go at last.”

    Both are proud Scots but…

  53. Tam Jardine says:


    “An opinion poll found that a quarter of a million people believe their relationship with a friend or family member has been permanently damaged as a result of the independence referendum”

    Some size of poll- how many folk did they have to poll to get a quarter of a million who have had a relationship with someone suffer as a result of the referendum? Half a million? More maybe!

    It sounds much more impressive than 1 in 16… sounds like what they mean is that this is a projected figure from a smaller number polled.

    My thoughts on reflection – 1. I’m surprised the figure was so low. 2. No mention of how many relationships have been formed or strengthened during the campaign. 3. Let’s face it – if you didn’t fall out with someone you knew you probably weren’t doing it right

  54. Truth says:

    History will judge everyone.

    Hopefully Andrew Neil will be judged as the obsequious little lickspittle that he is.

    History is written by the winners. What better incentive is there for us to ensure we come out on top.

  55. Tony Little says:


    Hopefully Andrew Neil will be judged as the obsequious little lickspittle that he is.

    You are being too kind

  56. Hamish100 says:

    The issue of dealing with biased and loud mouth presenters continues. It is time this was nailed.

    On bbc today Brewer let’s labour and lib dem speak then with the snp straight in with interruptions and wait on a minute! Plus you will agree with labour!


    Surely a polite don’t ask me a question and then interrupt – may I continue without interruption?

    Go silent and tell Brewer that as he we wishes to answer first his own question you will let him – then interrupt!

  57. ClanDonald says:

    I’ve met countless new people and made loads of new friends as a result of the referendum campaign, most of whom I would never have met otherwise.

    Stick that in your Wee Willie Rennie.

  58. galamcennalath says:

    JLT says

    “The Nationalists didn’t create the bitter feeling that exists”

    … not the Scottish nationalists, anyway. The hardcore BritNats you discuss however would have preferred if the entire issue of Scotland’s constitutional status had simply been left languishing at the back of the cupboard.

    They blame Scottish pro democracy activists for opening that Pandora’s Box.

    Perhaps they should look to their own deficiencies first! WM has always offered a Devo package which is too little too late. Demand in Scotland has grown for more and more transfer of powers. Meanwhile, WM has dragged its heels offering far less than is expected at each stage since 1979. The latest Scotland Bill is more of the same.

    I believe if the referendum had been conducted fairly, the result would have shown near enough 60% were ready for ALL powers. WM torpedoed this, and is substituting DevoNotMuch.

    Therein lies the cause of all bitterness

  59. Iain More says:

    heedtracker says:
    25 October, 2015 at 3:46 pm

    “An opinion poll found that a quarter of a million people believe their relationship with a friend or family member has been permanently damaged as a result of the independence referendum.”

    Says Wullie and BBC lie machine but as per, no link to their poll. Good old desperate frauds of Pacific Quay.

    There are three families members I haven’t spoken to since the Referendum. Considering they agreed with the BT proposition and think we are all too wee and too poor and too stupid to amount to anything. How can you conduct a conversation with anybody that wont look you in the eye? Not when they consigned their own families to another generation of suffering under London Tory Rule!
    I guess I also found out who my true friends were as well, they were the Yes voters since the ones that voted Naw considered their old friends and neighbours etc as something a diarrhoea suffering dog left on the pavement.

  60. Tam Jardine says:


    In fact – it is highly likely that more new relationships were formed than suffered permanent damage. It would only take about 16% of yes voters having formed a new relationship for that to be the case.

    And that’s not even counting no voters who, it is conceivable may also have formed relationships (through a mutual lack of vision and lack offaith in the Scottish people parhaps) with other like minded folk.

    If we could prove to Willie that the referendum had been a net gain in terms of relationships – would he get behind having another referendum? Surely that is the natural corollary of his call for no further referendums due to the damage caused.

  61. Tony Little says:

    O/T apologies. Have spent some time ‘muting’ “Historywoman’s” followers on Twitter.

    Rev. Who is Kevin Hague? He seems to think he ‘has your number’ on facts in the WBB. (The main topic of the swarming acolytes). Started to read his latest blog and it seemed to consist of his interpretation of GERS compared to yours and some minor issues of typing. He included some spurious graphs as ‘evidence’.

    I have no intention to waste my time with him, but you might want to be aware. Or not, of course 😉

  62. heedtracker says:

    Iain More says:
    25 October, 2015 at 5:11 pm
    heedtracker says:
    25 October, 2015 at 3:46 pm

    All kinds of people dont get along for all kinds of reasons. Point is the BBC and co are trying pour oil on trouble waters, then throw a match on it. Its a disgusting outfit though and shows how vicious they can be, like a little snappy dog, tied up outside a shop waiting for its owner, hopefully.

    Its pretty unique mind, that the BBC public broadcaster is trying to provoke trouble in their Scotland region. There’s worse coming too.

  63. gus1940 says:

    To Hell with Guy Fawkes next week.

    The people of Lewes make their own choice of who to burn in effigy – did they not choose Eck on one occasion?

    How about ‘Penny For The Brillo’.

    It’s maybe a bit late but could we not crowdfund The Bonfire Of The Century at a suitable location

  64. Ruby says:

    Tam Jardine says:
    25 October, 2015 at 5:59 pm


    In fact – it is highly likely that more new relationships were formed than suffered permanent damage

    Ruby replies:

    Labour & the Tories certainly formed a very close bond during the Indy Ref.

    Willie & his Wee Party will certainly know all about damaged relationships. Their relationship with the electorate is beyond repair.

    All ex LibDem & Labour voters have formed new relationships.

    It’s shit being the dumped but then that’s the price you pay when you do silly things!

    Silly Willie!

  65. Alan Mackintosh says:

    Tony Little, Och the Rev’s well aware of Kevin, the Pet shop boy. He’s been rattling his cage for many months. He was behind the Bus for Scot complaint thing a few weeks ago with the Elec Comm, (which they kicked into touch).

    Just watched the clip of Andra with Yanis Farouakis. Quite a good discussion, and Andra was quite civil. Worth a look(for Yanis, not Andra)

  66. Cactus says:

    Hey JLT @ 16:26, that’s a very important point you made earlier:

    “But there is that percentage who no matter what (even if Scotland found gold and mineral wealth in every mountain, oil pouring out of the house taps and would have free energy for eternity), these folk won’t go for it! They’re angered and terrified at the same time at the thought of independence.”

    To be angered and terrified at the very thought of independence, so much so, they can’t even begin to imagine the ‘idea’ of a YES Scotland, let alone experience the collective feelings we all felt and continue to feel.

    The innocence of independence has been stolen from them.. but we can help..

    Cheers dude.

  67. Andrew McLean says:

    Gus 1940
    I am surprised at you guys, I thought you knew shite doesn’t burn!

  68. Ruby says:

    OMG gus1940 You’ve caused my hyper active imagination to go into overdrive thinking about all the guys we could burn on the bonfire.

    I suppose if they didn’t like it we could accuse them of having no sense of humour.

    I wonder how ‘Lady Mone of Playboy’ would react if we had a effigy wearing a bra & an ermine robe!

    What about one with a big beard reading the Telegraph?

    The Andrew Neil effigy could just be a made out of empty boxes of Brillo. Everyone would get the message. We could sit the empty box guy on a big pile of ‘The Scotsman’ and stand back and watch it burn baby burn!

  69. Tony Little says:

    @Alan Macintosh

    Thanks for the info. Oddly HistoryWoman hasn’t blocked me, so I keep getting included in tweets from her followers on the same topic (my info is included – dumb or what?) so this makes it easy to see whom I should be muting.

  70. Dorothy Devine says:

    OT but has some bugger got their hands on a private supply of poppies and is intent on making a profit?

    I am watching Countryfile ( by default) and every bugger and their auntie , trudging through the fields , tending cuddies and coos or even fishing is wearing a poppy – I find it ludicrous and began to expect even the coos and cuddies wearing them.

    Now I have nothing against poppies really but this is making it a repellent “British” ,flag waving, political action, to be lumped together with the Great British Bake off and the vanishing Britain drivel by “celebs”.

    I apologise if I sound more than a little jaundiced – I’m off to cheer myself up with Wee Ginger Dug who is in my inbox .

  71. Lesley-Anne says:

    O.K. folks, who saw this train coming down the track? … Apart from Stu of course! 😉

    Personally I’m just glad Mr. Hambone is going ahead with Trident renewal. I mean without Trident what other possible defence do we have to protect our Food banks? 😀

  72. Ruby says:

    On hang on there might be confusion over the effigy with ‘the bra & the ermine robe’

    No confusion however over the effigy with the pigs head!

  73. dakk says:

    Andra is good at spinning government statistics to suit his argument, of that there is no doubt.

    He has however met his match in Rev Stuart Campbell who is Scotland’s truth seeker.

    There is though,still one pursuit in which Andra is still peerless.That is, spinning a small amount of orange hair a long long way.His efforts in this pastime would put another of our kinsman-Tronald Dump-to shame.

  74. Lesley-Anne says:

    Just thinking about my last post for a second and I was wondering if wee Andra has anything to say regarding the validity, or otherwise, of all the figures that have been quoted over the renewal of Trident. 😉

    More importantly does wee Andra actually have a point of view, for or against, the renewal of Trident. 😉

    Come to think about it scratch these queries wee Andra will never divulge his thoughts on Trident cause wee Davy Hambone will not allow him to do so. 😀

  75. Thepnr says:


    Personally I’d like to destroy all our foodbanks with a well aimed Trident missile. Having foodbanks is a disgrace in a country as wealthy as the UK.

    FFS whatever happened to Social Security? No one should have to be “referred” in order to feed their children. Fucking disgrace.

  76. Effijy says:

    Wee Willie Winkie says ““Last week I met a woman in Anstruther”

    Anstruther is well known for having one of Scotland’s best Chip shops.

    Willie you have had your Chips!
    No need to travel up there, they are coming to you.

    Sorry an un-named reliable source, without a link, or contact number, tells me. lol

  77. HandandShrimp says:

    I have made a lot of friends throughout the independence campaign and fell out with no one.

    My Dad, in his 80s and ex RAF, voted No – I wasn’t surprised. He wasn’t surprised I voted Yes. We are still close.

    Willie and the BBC are full of pish. My Dad has no time for the Tories or Willie and feels let down by Labour. He likes Nicola. Life marches on.

    Willie, and his cohorts want division. They are hungry for it. They are not a peacemakers.

    It doesn’t matter.

  78. heedtracker says:

    #SNPouters piling in with stacks of cash for the last LibDem MP in Scotland. Maybe a great LibDem conference will boost their save the last ever LibDem campaign.

    Considering the full on UK wide BBC monstering Sturgeon got for not actually saying anything to the French and after a great national tv debate maybe reaching out to not nuts English left LibDem donors are very easy on Carmichael, little white lies, politics is lies anyway, all’s fair in love and politics…

    Should be interesting to see if this kind of hate the crime love the sinner, LibDem stuff holds in court.

  79. Chris F says:

    Bob Mack says

    ‘Neil thinks this too ,and that is why the Rev wil NEVER get an invite to debate on his show.’

    The reason the Rev will never get an invite is because to do so would be to confer a legitimacy on WOS which establishment circles will never, ever do. It would be a public admission of Wings’ existence and ability to debate constructively. It’s never going to happen.

  80. Robert Kerr says:


    To get back to the title of this thread. The question that needs asked and then forensically disected is ” What to you really mean by the qualifier IN REAL TERMS ?”

    I personally am at a loss to understand this and he uses it too often.

  81. Robert Peffers says:

    @Rev Stu:

    Why bother asking that overblown and overfed numptie anything whatsoever, Rev Stu?

    The man lost any credibility, if he ever had any, long, long ago. No one in their right mind now pays heed to him these days. Mind you few paid heed to him at any time, anyway.

    He has been asked innumerable times to clarify the host of bare faced lies that stemmed from his cowardly keeping very, very quiet after the unionists claimed he asked Alex Salmond in a TV interview if he had EU legal advice about Scotland’s position in regards to EU membership.

    I recorded that interview and indeed I still have my edited version of it showing the man’s crass deceit on my YouTube account.

    Neil’s question plainly asked, and was confirmed by the official BBC transcript of the interview as, “Have you sought advice from your own Scottish Government Legal Officers?”

    So just why has this despicable BBC person never made it abundantly clear he never asked Salmond if he had EU legal advice? Only an extremely dishonest sycophantic lowlife could hold back from clarifying the point and Neil is just such a lowlife.

    The glaringly obvious lack of journalistic integrity exhibited by Neil certainly negates any professional integrity the man previously had. I now find him totally beneath contempt. Just one more jumped up BBC lying creep. Just what the public have become accustomed to from lying BBC propagandists. He is but one of the many that have caused me to no longer ever bother viewing TV programmes. Perhaps the rapid decrease in licenced viewers may eventually see such as Neil retired to the obscurity he has so thoroughly deserved.

    In fact I’m hardly even listening to BBC Radio programmes either these days, (well except for the occasional weather report and even these are often utterly wrong).

  82. Lesley-Anne says:

    Thepnr says:
    25 October, 2015 at 7:18 pm

    Personally I’d like to destroy all our foodbanks with a well aimed Trident missile. Having foodbanks is a disgrace in a country as wealthy as the UK.

    FFS whatever happened to Social Security? No one should have to be “referred” in order to feed their children. Fucking disgrace.

    I wholeheartedly agree with you Thepnr. Having food banks in a country as rich as ours in the 21st century is disgusting!

    To be honest Thepnr I think we all know the answer to your query about Scoial Security … Iain Drnken Spliff has killed it all off as best he could!!!

  83. Lesley-Anne says:

    Effijy says:
    25 October, 2015 at 7:22 pm

    Wee Willie Winkie says ““Last week I met a woman in Anstruther”

    Anstruther is well known for having one of Scotland’s best Chip shops.

    Willie you have had your Chips!
    No need to travel up there, they are coming to you.

    Sorry an un-named reliable source, without a link, or contact number, tells me. lol

    I’m shocked Effijy, no really I am. I mean surely the news that Ainster has women should be headlines news. Every news media outlet MUST surely be running this news on their front pages tomorrow. If this is nOT front page headlines tomorrow then questions MUST be asked in the House of Commons! 🙂

  84. Giving Goose says:

    Talking of legitimacy and wildy OT.
    I had the good fortune to be at Twickenham today for the Aussie Argie game.
    At the merchandise outlets around the ground there was not an Argentine scarf to be had. For some strange reason those responsible for flogg
    ing the official merchandise did not factor in the possibility of Argentina getting to semis.

    Of course, Aussie stuff was plentiful.

    Apparently another team ws expected to be present in the semi’s. Can’t think who *smiley face*

  85. Lesley-Anne says:

    Someone has just tweeted this link from July this year. I wonder if EVEL really could be the stick that breaks the camel’s back or is just the stick that cracks it … ready for it break after Hambone’s E.U. referendum.

    I don’t know if anyone else heard it last night but Hambone resurrected the old irrevocable excuse. “If U.K. votes NO the result is irrevocable.” … No shite Sherlock! 😀

  86. Ian Brotherhood says:

    This is about Twitter, so it’s not really O/T 😉

    WOS Twitter, few minutes ago, this, from Rob Brown:

    ‘Iain Duncan Smith lives on an estate owned by his wife’s family. During last 10 years it has received 1.5 million (Euros) in income support from taxpayers.’

    Anyone know how to invest in pitchfork and/or inflammable torch manufacturers?

    I mean, really, actually, properly, WTF…

  87. caz-m says:

    Lesley-Anne 7.03pm

    Re: Trident Price update- £167 Billion pound.

    Could they not have just rounded it up to £170 Billion pound?

    After all, what’s a few Billion pounds between friends?

    Seriously though, the case for Independence is nudging ever closer to BBC Scotland’s magic 60% figure.

    Keep them coming.

  88. Tam Jardine says:

    Giving Goose 

    Looked to me like we would have had a pretty good chance of progressing had the ref not screwed us over.

    Shame for the Argies – a brave effort.

    Was there not talk of them joining the 6 nations since most of their team plays in Europe?

  89. yesindyref2 says:

    @Robert Kerr
    Cash terms means the actual amount. So for example something in 2008 that costs £5, costs £6 in 2015 allowing for inflation.

    Real terms means allowing for inflation so that if the thing costs £6 in 2015, and has only gone up in price in line with inflation, then in 2008 in REAL TERMS it would have cost £6 as well, even though in cash terms it would ahve cost £5.

    Or vice versa, something that cost £5 in 2008 would still cost £5 in real terms in 2015 from the point of view of someone stuck in 2008, but in cash terms it would cost £6.

  90. caz-m says:


    Ronnie Anderson & Co. and the Wings night-out.

    Hope it all went well.

    Anyone got pictures from last night, please post them up.

  91. Albaman says:

    Andrew Neil is in the same mold as another Andrew, aye, you’ve already guessed, it’s –Andrew Carmichael !.

  92. yesindyref2 says:

    OT – Rugby
    With the benefit of hindsight, the “right” thing for the Wallabees to have done against Scotland, having seen the big screen and no penalty, would have been a tap penalty and try to run it, though it might have been too late having indicated they were going to go for the posts. Difficult to think of things like that at the time though, it’s “play the referee’s decision”.

    A lot of boos every time they got a decision from the ref today, when they took any kick, or even if they had the ball. I guess that can’t just be the Scots supporters.

    I also think after all I’d like Joubert to get the final. I think Twickenham would boo its roof off when he ran onto the park rather than scurry off it. His ass is grass.

  93. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Caz-m (8.42) =

    BDTT has posted some snaps and short vid over on O/T.

  94. Lesley-Anne says:

    caz-m says:
    25 October, 2015 at 8:42 pm

    Lesley-Anne 7.03pm

    Re: Trident Price update- £167 Billion pound.

    Could they not have just rounded it up to £170 Billion pound?

    After all, what’s a few Billion pounds between friends?

    Seriously though, the case for Independence is nudging ever closer to BBC Scotland’s magic 60% figure.

    Keep them coming.

    Perhaps they should have Caz. 😉

    There again maybe word has gotten out about the wee *cough* tiff between oor Stu and a certain *ahem* interviewer and they were terrified of having to face serious questioning from oor Stu hence the exact £167 Billion. 😀

  95. Lesley-Anne says:


    I’ve just found out on Twitter that Stu lives in BATH! 🙂

    Here was me thinking that everyone talking about Stu being in Bath were referring to him being in THE bath (object) NOT Bath the town! 😀

  96. Harry McAye says:

    Dorothy Devine says:

    OT but has some bugger got their hands on a private supply of poppies and is intent on making a profit?

    Dorothy, it’s one of my new pet hates. In recent years I have seen a BBC reporter wearing a poppy whilst down a cave interviewing pot-holers, a farmer in his field being interviewed in his work clothes adorned by a poppy, plus the ubiquitous masses interviewed wearing casual shirts and tops with poppies on them, as if they would ever wear a poppy with those things in their personal life. Last year I noticed a few brave folk on BBC Breakfast that could think for themselves and clearly refused to wear one. A couple of famous folk, I wish I could remember who. And of course James Maclean the Irish footballer who plays in the English Premiership gets dogs abuse for refusing to have one on his shirt, as has now become obligatory. Coming from Derry, you can understand why he doesn’t want one. I don’t wear one now, after many years of buying them, as I’ve become acquainted with stuff like this.

  97. Lesley-Anne says:

    O.K. folks I hope you are all sitting comfortably … good … then I’ll begin. 😉

    Scottish Labour leader Kezia Dugdale has set out plans for “more autonomy” for the party in Scotland.

    The man from Del Monte … he say …”I see squirrels!” 😀

  98. caz-m says:

    Cheers Ian B.

  99. Grouse Beater says:

    Lesley-Anne: Scottish Labour leader Kezia Dugdale has set out plans for “more autonomy” for the party in Scotland.

    I think our Parliament should set up a Smith Commission, and then just as it seems Scottish Labour are getting all the autonomy it wants, we whittle away their powers until all they have is the right to call themselves Labour UK Scottish Branch.

    We then announce that the Scottish Parliament fulfilled its vow to help free Labour Scotland to do what it needs to do for the people of Scotland.

    Job done. Kinda. If you catch my drift. 🙂

  100. Phronesis says:

    ‘Child mortality rates are an indication of how well a nation meets the needs of its children’ (UNICEF, 2001)

    A recent overview of child mortality in 20 other Western countries in the context of their national health expenditure and relative poverty found that the widest gap between top and bottom 20 per cent of incomes was the USA at 8.5 times, Portugal 8 times and the UK third widest at 7.2 times. The narrowest income inequalities were in Japan 3.6, Finland 3.7 and Sweden 3.8 times. It is understood that it is the poverty dimension that disproportionately impacts on child mortality.

    Britain’s relative poverty and lower health expenditure leads to the suggestion that British children and their services have long been doubly disadvantaged (although the NHS is praised for doing remarkably well despite its funding constraints)

    We should not seek to emulate the USA which has structural poverty and child mortality rates that are culturally patterned. This combination of poverty and a private health care system has particularly toxic effects on childhood mortality (Pritchard & Wallace)

    The recent Social Mobility and Child Poverty Commission report(2013) shows the extent of the problem of growing up disadvantaged and offers little optimism for major improvement for comparatively disadvantaged British children.

    Intelligent politics considers its own legacy to future generations of its citizens. Before the UK government pushes ahead with its scorched earth policies of welfare cuts it should think very carefully about its legacy. At some point the increasing inequality will trigger major social disruption. Thankfully Scotland has the option of a positive disruption-independence.

    UNICEF. 2001. Child Deaths by Injury in Rich Nations. Innocenti Research Centre: Florence. Report No 2. United Nations Children Fund.

    Pritchard, C.& Wallace, M. Comparing UK and Other Western Countries’ Health Expenditure, Relative Poverty and Child Mortality: Are British Children Doubly Disadvantaged? Children & Society 29(5), 462-472. 1-9-2015.

    Social Mobility Child Poverty Commission. 2013. State of the Nation, London. Available at uk./social-mobility-child-poverty-commission

  101. CameronB Brodie says:

    The ‘crass insensitivity’ of Tower’s luxury dinner for arms dealers, days after poppy display
    Event was held just days after ceramic poppy display was focus of Great War commemorations

    Last March the Chairman of Europe’s largest arms firm BAE Systems, Roger Carr, was appointed Vice Chairman of the BBC Trust. Will Carr’s close ties to the arms industry “get the best out of the BBC for licence fee payers” as its mission statement promises?

  102. mealer says:

    Kezia Dugdales views chime with those of Labour MPs in Westminster,not exLabour voters in Scotland.They keep saying they’re listening to Scottish voters.So why don’t they just bu**er off,like Scottish voters are telling them to?

  103. Lesley-Anne says:

    Sounds like a plan to me GB. 😀

  104. CameronB Brodie says:

    P.S. It was a blogger in Coventry who supplied the Corporate Media with all their ‘Assad’s a monster stories’. He sources were quite often described as ‘rebel activists’.

  105. Dr Jim says:

    2015 Scotland: The country sees a continuing Tory administration
    People fill out forms to eat, The Chancellor of the Exchequer is comfortable with his decision

    More pensioners predicted to die of cold related illnesses as talks continue on removing heating allowance cold weather payments

    Scotland sees voting rights removed from Scottish MPs

    Legislation put in place to tax the working poor

    Michelle Moan Bra maker and Socialite is made a Baroness, extending her more voting rights than Scottish MPs

    Suicide at it’s highest rate in eight years

    This is like reading a discarded newspaper found amongst the rubble after a wiped out civilisation

  106. sinky says:

    No coverage on BBC of increased Trident costs but whats £67 billion to add to uk deficit which as percentage of GDP is higher than Greece’s

  107. Thepnr says:


    You may not post often. When you do it is surely worth a read. Kudos.

  108. caz-m says:


    £167 Billion Pounds is one hell of a lot of money to spend on weapons of mass destruction.

    BBC Scotland will give it the same amount of airtime as they gave to EVEL.

  109. Legerwood says:

    Harry MacAye

    Jon Snow refuses to wear a poppy when he is on air presenting CH4 news.

    The BBC has been acting as the poppy police for some years and sticking a poppy on anyone who is going to be near a camera.

    But I realised how out of hand it had become when I saw a photo of Ed Milliband outside the hospital just after, or before, his wife gave birth and he had a poppy pinned to his jumper! Now what man rushing his wife to hospital when she is in labour stops to pin a poppy to his jumper?

  110. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Dr. Jim (10.42) –

    ‘This is like reading a discarded newspaper found amongst the rubble after a wiped out civilisation.’


    There are two unknowns in play here:

    1. How much are we expected to take? Who is doing the reckoning on that score?

    2. How much can/will we take? At what point do we crack and ‘do something’.

    What we can surmise reasonably is that the very cleverest people available are being paid a lot of dosh to calibrate this stuff, and the behaviour of the MSM is being adjusted accordingly.

    So, what does the recent behaviour of the MSM tell us? That’s well beyond my ken, but this place is our closest hope to getting anywhere near the truth – the folk who want to get their heids around what’s happening are coming here because they can access bollox-free data of the kind which has the likes of Andrew Neil running scared.

  111. Big Jock says:

    Nae poppies on me not ever. Sure I care about people dying in wars. But I am not a hypocrite. Where are the poppies for all the murdered people in Iraq. Or do the Brits only care about their own side.

  112. Thepnr says:

    @Ian Brotherhood


  113. Well said Dr.Jim I totally agree. Why give the shyster a plattform to build a case that he knows is wrong.
    The whole arguement he puts forward is full of holes, so the Rev should let him stew in a caserole of his own making

  114. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    Ian Brotherhood at 11.14

    I still believe we should target. Pick newspaper and produce compelling evidence of its lies for wide distribution. Damage it then move on to another. Make them fear us. We have the strength now to do so.

    As for BBC, protests outside PQuay are unlikely to get a lot of coverage from those in PQuay (or near neighbours STV)
    Bringing lots of London to a standstill by a huge demonstration outside Bush House would be a much better idea.

    As I have said on many occasions an eight page tabloid style newspaper can be printed for about 7p.

  115. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Typing about ‘poppies’…

    Apart from Loos, poppies now remind me of this…

    You should really read all the uploader’s comments below the video’s window.

  116. Thepnr says:

    From an earlier post:

    “It is really quite simple. If the Scottish people have Scottish issues, as delineated now, voted upon entirely in the Scottish Parliament, then the same ought to apply to purely English issues in the English Parliament, and it should be English Members of Parliament who should vote on them.”

    Did you get it? Or did you miss it?

    This is a Scot, yet there is no English Parliament as far as I know.

    This is what we are up against, prepare yourselves, in fact get stuck right in. Never miss an opportunity to embarrass these arseholes.

  117. maxi says:

    “Paisley grammar boy done good”
    Backstabbing prick.

  118. Unforgiving says:

    If we are targeting any newspaper it should be the one that took part in the Vow fraud. It wouldn’t be enough to simply address their lies either. Boycot them, boycot those who advertise therein, systematically over months if not years, and boycot shops who sell it. Make it known that you are boycotting them, say it loud, and explain why. Focus singularly on that, nothing else, and teach them a lesson that will serve as a stark lesson to others.

  119. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Dave McEwan Hill (11.37) –

    ‘Bringing lots of London to a standstill by a huge demonstration outside Bush House would be a much better idea.’

    Hear hear.

    Now we’re talking.

    It may not be politically/diplomatically ‘expedient’ for Nicola/Alex to say certain things, but that doesn’t stop the rest of us stating the bleedin’ obvious.

    And the most obvious example is Trident renewal.

    We have to make some stuff very clear to Whitehall, whether or not our elected representatives feel queasy about doing so.

    First off, ‘we’ are not going to pay one single penny towards this idiotic, mind-bogglingly expensive imperial posturing. No matter how difficult it may be to find a way of doing it, we will ensure that the people of Scotland do not contribute.

    Secondly, ‘we’ will not countenance this new generation of pointless weaponry being situated in Scotland. If they are determined (or are ‘persuaded’) to do it, they’ll have to do it elsewhere in the ‘British Isles’.

    They must get this message loud and clear, and know that there is no ‘bluff’ involved – ‘Trident’ will have no offspring in Scotland.

  120. manandboy says:

    David Coulthard at the US Grand Prix in Austin, Texas, wore a regular sized poppy prominently today. I can’t believe poppies are on sale in Austin, Texas at any time and certainly not 14 days before Remembrance Sunday.

    The BBC clearly has orders from No 10 re the wearing of the poppy on British television – even when abroad.

    I fully subscribe to remembering the war dead. I’d just like to see the Tories remember the living. Under the present Government, the official Remembrance Sunday Services are in danger of being dragged down into a well of Tory hypocrisy.

  121. caz-m says:

    Hold the front page.

    BBC Scotland actually mentioned the rise in the price of Trident from £100 Billion to an eye watering £167 Billion.

    They also told us of Lewis Hamilton winning his third F1 World Championship and reminding us that he equals Jackie Stewart’s three World Championship wins.

    Lewis Hamilton and Jackie Stewart should not be mentioned in the same sentence.

    Lewis Hamilton couldnae blow up Jackie Stewart’s tyres.

  122. caz-m says:

    Name change.

    For the next two weeks, BBC Scotland has changed it’s name to,

    BBC Poppyland.

  123. Arabs for Independence says:

    Lest we forget

    Not bloody likely with an anniversary of something every other week

  124. Ruby says:

    ‘Scottish Tory leader Ruth Davidson admits her party’s tax credits cuts are unacceptable’

    Will Ruth be joining Kezia in looking to divorce her British colleagues?

  125. Ruby says:

    ‘Anti-migrant party claim victory in Poland election’

    Polish UKIP claim victory!

    Surely there is something no right about that!

    Perhaps I need to go back to bed I was awake at 6.30am this morning my body clock thought it was 7.30 am

    It’s only 8 o’clock it’s going to be ages until my coffee break.

    Ach why wait I need a coffee NOW!

  126. caz-m says:

    Will the BBC and Sky News ban everyone from their studios if they are not wearing a Poppy?

  127. caz-m says:

    This Ruth Davidson shit about her being concerned about people on low wages is classic electioneering.

    She would have got the all clear from Tory head office for this orchestrated move, aimed at trying to win some votes in next year’s Holyrood elections.

    You must try a lot harder than that Ruth.

    When you think of Ruth Davidson, the word “plastic” springs to mind.

  128. Robert Peffers says:

    O/T but relevant.

    I posted the following comment on the article, “The Highlander Doctrine”, but as it illustrates how the Establishment Propagandists lie and twist the language to appear to say something it actually doesn’t I repeat it here : –

    Something about Wee Kezia’s recent bout of apparently involuntary verbal diarrhoea had bothered me but I just, ( perish the thought), couldn’t put my finger on it.

    It just dawned upon me what bothered me when the news item appeared again on the BBC’s text news. The item reads –

    Scottish leader Kezia Dugdale has set out plans for, more autonomy”, for the party in Scotland.

    Proposals would see control over policy, membership, constituency parties and candidate selection transferred to Scotland.

    Ms Dugdale said the reforms would leave no doubt that, “the main focus of Scottish Labour will be at Holyrood”.

    Earlier, The Sunday Times Scotland reported that Jeremy Corbyn plans to create a, “Federal”, Labour Party.

    Like the expected impending death of the, (non-existent), Scottish Labour party it is impending because there are no degrees of death – yer aither deid or yer no deid. Likewise yer aither autonomous or yer no autonomous.

  129. galamcennalath says:

    “Ruth Davidson”

    Perhaps she believes there something to be gained by aping Slab in pretending she can have Scottish policies, as a Scottish party, implying Scotland can have different policies on reserved matters.

    The ‘Scottish’ Labour, Conservatives and LibDems MUST have the same policies as their London HQ. Electoral Law demands it!

    To pretend otherwise is gross deceit.

  130. Sinky says:

    GMS Radio Scotland feels fit to mention that Andy Collier “occasionally works for the SNP” whereas Fraser Nelson is portrayed as a neutral political observer from The Spectator.

  131. Ruby says:

    Why on earth are Ruth & Kezia members of British Unionist parties?

    What on earth is wrong with being British in their opinion?

    Are the branch office employees ashamed to be British?
    Why do they want to divorce themselves from the people in Birmingham, Coventry & Aldershot? Are they anti-English?

    Why do they want to break up the Union with their friends & relatives in England. Why do they want to become foreigners?

    I’m beginning to think Ruth & Kezia are a couple of con artistes trying to trick the Scottish electorate into thinking they are not hardcore poppy wearing British Unionist supporters of wars, killing, weapons of mass destruction all Tory policies.

    PS Sorry if I scared you with the link to the portrait of ‘The Better Together UKOK War Criminal’ wearing a poppy!

    That is one very scary portrait! Will he wear his poppy when he is on trail for war crimes?

  132. Alan Mackintosh says:

    Yep, Ruthie is at it. This is only a tactic to make the tories in Scot appear to be less toxic than the main lot down south. She’s hedging her bets, hence her move eastwards to Edin. No way is she breaking the party line without permission from London.

  133. caz-m says:

    Serious, serious suggestion here.

    Rev, or anyone else reading this. Would you and your many contacts consider launching a radio station based on the LBC Radio format.

    I have started listening to the London based radio station more and more. It is based on talking about current affairs and listeners phoning in on a regular basis.

    If this format could be repeated in Scotland, I’m sure you would be on a winner.

    We are crying out for a neutral, unbiased radio station in Scotland, I am positive that an LBC type programme would go down a treat.

  134. galamcennalath says:

    Robert Peffers says:

    “yer aither autonomous or yer no autonomous.”

    … or in UKOKJockland you can just lie about your party being autonomous, then get the BBC and the DR to tell everyone you are being truthful.

    IF the Unionist parties were to actually become autonomous, like the Sc. Unionists were up until the 60s, it would be a good thing, IMO.

    However, it is very unlikely to happen because it would be an admission that Scotland is in fact sufficiently different to merit separate parties with genuinely different policies. That flies totally against the fundamental premises of Unionist.

  135. Dorothy Devine says:

    Harry McAye, thank you for that – it fair depressed my start to the day. I knew we were a bunch of evil buggers but you increased my knowledge bigtime.

    Briandoonthetoon, I think a good greet is an excellent way to start my day . That video had me snivelling and thinking about all our young soldiers still engaged in the works of a Westminster government which I despise and the appalling ,unnecessary loss of innocent lives.

  136. Socrates MacSporran says:

    caz-m said –

    Lewis Hamilton and Jackie Stewart should not be mentioned in the same sentence.

    Lewis Hamilton couldnae blow up Jackie Stewart’s tyres.

    Quite so, and, brilliant though he was, wee Jackie was no Jim Clark.

  137. Socrates MacSporran says:

    Apologies to Ruby

    My last post was about sport

  138. Ruby says:

    I want a flower to remember all people killed in wars.

    The poppy reminds me of hard drugs like opium & cocaine. Sometimes I think some of these hardcore poppywearing UKOK warmongers are on hard drugs & the poppy to them is a reminder of something they are looking forward to later!

    I wonder if having women leaders of the British Parties in Scotland is another con. A trick to make Scottish electorate think these parties are soft & kind?

    Ruthie & Kezia are really nice lassies!

  139. Ruby says:

    Socrates MacSporran says:
    26 October, 2015 at 8:55 am

    Apologies to Ruby

    My last post was about sport

    😀 smile 😀 smile 😀 smile

  140. john king says:

    Socrates Mac Sporran says
    “Quite so, and, brilliant though he was, wee Jackie was no Jim Clark.”

    Who was no Gordon Bennett! :0

  141. Ruby says:

    OMG It’s only 9 o’clock and I’ve already had 4 espressos! I’m absolutely buzzin’ It’s time to go and do some meditation. OM!

    Hasta luego!

    Bye! Try to keep the sport talk to a minimum while I’m gone! You know what they say about too much sport!

  142. Robert Peffers says:

    @Thepnr says: 26 October, 2015 at 12:08 am:

    … Did you get it? Or did you miss it?”

    Oh! I get it, Thepnr. How long do you imagine I’ve been using the term, “The de facto parliament of England”?

    For that matter how long have I described, “Her Majesty’s Parliament of The United Kingdom”, as, “The Establishment”?

    I’ve been harping upon the misuse of English Language terms as propaganda for what seems like forever. I first noted these deliberate abuses as far back as the 1950s and recognized why these apparently well educated Unionist shills made use of such terms.

    It is only now a wider section of the independence movement are awaking to how this crass propaganda has been ground into them all their lives.

    When Cameron speaks about, “The whole country”, when he means the four countries of the United Kingdom he knows full well he is brainwashing us. When he speaks of sending in the British Armed forces when what he is sending in is the United Kingdom’s forces he knows exactly what he is doing.

    There is a great difference between the terms, Britain, Great Britain and the United Kingdom and none of them mean England – but that is exactly what their brainwashing is designed to do equate them all as England.

    Never forget they commissioned a couple of tame, “Experts”, in international law to produce a paper during the referendum campaign that claimed, “The Treaty of Union extinguished the Kingdom of Scotland and renamed the Kingdom of England as, “The United Kingdom”.

    In no way is this true. There were only two extant British kingdoms in 1706/7. and they were the equally sovereign Kingdom of Scotland and the three country Kingdom of England. Thus the Treaty of Union is a bipartite treaty of equally sovereign KINGDOMS.

    However, long before that instant the propaganda had long been that the English Kingdom’s parliament held sovereignty over Scotland.

    It is the reason the English historians have called the 1688 to 1745 Jacobite uprisings, “The Jacobite Rebellions”. The Scots could not rebel against the newly imported King Billy & Queen Mary of Orange as the English Parliament that deposed their monarch, James II of England. The reason that English Monarch was titled James II of England and VII of Scotland was because both kingdoms were still independent so deposing the English monarch did not automatically depose the King of Scots. Yet we had 57 years of bloody war over them assuming sovereignty over Scotland, with almost 39 of them coming after the treaty of union.

    In the English Establishment’s mind they took sovereignty over Scotland in 1603 even after the wars of Scottish Independence were won by Robert Bruce and the signing of the, (never mentioned), Edinburgh-Northampton Treaty of 1328.

    Note: – The Treaty of Edinburgh-Northampton, (1328) . This treaty of peace between Scotland and England was signed on 17 March 1328.and acknowledged that not only was Scotland an independent kingdom but that Bruce was it’s rightful monarch of Scots. By the way it included Berwick as part of Scotland as it agreed the borders as those of the reign of Alexander.

    So there you go. This sovereignty over Scotland in the minds of the Establishment is nothing new but it still is legally pish.

  143. Helena Brown says:

    Socrates MacSporran, heard Jackie Stewart this morning on Radio 4, he very graciously had congratulated Lewis Hamilton on reaching his total of 3 F1 championships and that he had only reached that when the time came for him to retire. I am sure our Jackie is probably a PSB but it was nice of him. We should be equally gracious, it is not like they were driving for their countries, eh?

  144. Helena Brown says:

    Ruby agree with you about both the poppies and with the women leaders of the British Parties. I consider they are merely window dressing, none show any particular talent to be there.

  145. caz-m says:

    John King 9.13am


  146. Helena Brown says:

    Robert Peffers, thank you so much for your clarifications as always regarding the true state of these disunited kingdoms. I always refer to the occupants of the Palace of Westminster, regardless of party as the Establishment. Never seen anything radical happen to it under Labour and old enough to have seen one or two Labour Governments. Here Labour was seen as the safe pair of hands for the self same Establishment in fact they are still regarded as such you only have to watch the media.

  147. Angra Mainyu says:

    Rev, it would be a very good time to have a prominent and up-to-date article on Tax credit cuts up on top… I’m speaking from a PR and marketing perspective. The story is going to run for a few days.

    And it’s a great issue for us. Without rubbing it in “I told you so” fashion, the Tory cuts more so than anything else in months really underline the importance of independence — basically, if we had voted for independence this could never happen; a government with virtually no mandate to govern Scotland is imposing draconian and cruel cuts on our people… You know the script eh.

    Just a suggestion.

  148. heedtracker says:

    Any word from Ligger at coffee time yet? no.

    That’s disappointing.

    Its always a bit sad when a tory henchman turns out to be just one more wet BBC fart. All that licence fee dosh, but they bottle it when queried, as per.

  149. heedtracker says:

    WTF, or what happens when BBC goon gets asked a straight forward statistics query-

    Andrew Neil Retweeted
    frances barber ?@francesbarber13 16h16 hours ago
    @budgie @JohnRentoul @kevverage Weep for Wangs.JK humiliated him,reprimanded by Nicola @afneil said he was talking bollocks & now this ! ????

    frances barber ?@francesbarber13 23h23 hours ago
    frances barber Retweeted Andrew Neil
    HAHA frances barber added,
    Andrew Neil @afneil
    @WingsScotland Still clinging to the bollocks by little WingsTroll over Bath?
    4 retweets 3 favorites

    BBC toryboy gets gorgeous pouting actress and some bloke in Edinburgh to do his dirty work for him, shock.

  150. Capella says:

    Sport is very bad for you, that’s true. But about the poppies. The Poppy Appeal has just been launched with the aim of raising money to help war veterans and the walking wounded. The shame is that proper care for the war wounded is largely left to charities.

    Greater shame is the OTT exploitation of the sacrifices made by people on behalf of the UK, often in dire circumstances and even in illegal wars. I noted the shabby attempt to sideline opposition MPs at the Remembrance Day ceremony and the SNP stand against that. Well done.

    Those ostentatiously wearing poppies for the next fortnight are probably just caving in to peer pressure. There is nothing to prevent them contributing to the appeal without having to advertise the fact.

    A more fitting memorial would be publishing the Chilcot report.

  151. gus1940 says:

    Can I suggest that Stu includes at the top of all future stories a slightly bigger than postage stamp copy of that revolting picture of lover boy Brillo so familiar to readers of Private Eye.

    Readers of Wings could then save it and spread it far and wide over the net.

    I understand that there are also in existence pictures of him in his ‘cool’ days in the 70s with ludicrously long brillo pad and dressed in denim.(pass the sickbag Alice!)

    I feel sorry for his beautiful Golden Retriever having such a prick for an owner.

    Surely there must be plenty of angry former Scotsman Pubs employees who fell victim to him during his disastrous (to both staff and readers) reign who could supply some interesting anecdotes of his time in charge.

    Let’s do what the unionists have been doing to Michelle Thomson but with a significant difference – using the truth to totally discredit this loathesome arrogant liar and turn him into an object of universal ridicule.

  152. gus1940 says:

    John Rentoul

    Currently Chief Political Commentator on The Independent and notorious worshipper of and apologist for our very own UK War Criminal.

  153. Bob Mack says:

    I always have contributed to the poppy appeal,but always refuse to wear the symbol.
    It is a PR logo derived from Ww1 poets,who absolutely detested what they and the other men were enduring at the behest of those who sold death and slaughter as something noble. It was not then, it is not now ,and never could be something to glorify.

    I once read an account of a veteran who simply felt that if he did not charge the machine guns at the Somme,then his own superiors would shoot him for cowardice in any event.
    Some choice is it not.

  154. Lollysmum says:

    Re your suggestion about a radio show similar to LBC. If I recall correctly, it would need a licence to broadcast from UK Govt. Can you imagine them agreeing because I can’t?

    Just like putting adverts in papers-no publisher is going to agree to that either.

  155. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    An online radio (which provides much better reception) requires much less in licences and permits

  156. Jack Murphy says:

    sinky said at 10:43 pm 25th October:-
    “No coverage on BBC of increased Trident costs but whats £67 billion to add to uk deficit which as percentage of GDP is higher than Greece’s”.
    Don’t despair,this major piece of news,hugely relevant to Scotland,will be top of Great Britain’s MisReporting Scotland 6:30pm teatime news.
    Can’t wait. 🙂
    What’s their channel number again? I’ll need to go and find it on the net.

  157. gus1940 says:

    Could we not use Brillo’s universal popularity to raise money towards the publication of the proposed updated WBB.

    Set up a crowdfunding operation under the auspices of something called either ‘The Andrew Neil Non-Appreciation Society’ or ‘The Society For The Abolition Of Andrew Neil’ with say £5 Life Membership.

    For the £5 subscribers would get a Membership Card and their names inscribed on an on-line Roll of Honour.

    It wouln’t cost much to publicise it beyond Wings by putting small ads in the likes of Private Eye or even the main dead tree press directing readers to the crowdfunding site.

  158. heedtracker says:

    Nothing in Scotland happening ukok today as usual. What a doss it must be for Libby Carrell in their Scotland region. Say f all, fart out a couple of Bettertogether SLab mega whoppers twice a week.

    Nice photo of Kezia though, she’s bonny and usual lovely puffery too from rancid Graun conartists.

    Watched Kez on SKY news yesterday and she was way too robotic and scripted. God help her if she ever meets hacks with any integrity.

    Maybe she is a robot, the Kezbot 2000, like Terminator, unless coffee gets spilled on her and she short circuits, “Exterminate, must kill all cybernats, Stu Campbell, Dad.”

  159. Les Wilson says:

    Thinking about the media and how to get our message to the people. Posters, they can be out in eye catching areas and on a multitude of things.But do not expect any Unionist to allow them. Still, we have many chances to be innovative.

    A picture paints a thousand words.It could be an important area for us.

  160. Les Wilson says:

    Forget all this stuff about an independent Slab, or the new one coming from the Ruthie area for something similar.
    This is just smoke and mirrors, no matter how they spin it, their godfathers remain in Westminster.

  161. BornOptimist says:

    Isn’t it about time there was some democratic means of selecting individuals for debates and interviews to replace the clearly unsatisfactory (I won’t say biased) current means of choosing who ends up in the hot seat?

    I think it would be great if interested viewers selected volunteers to debate issues with establishment figures. It could only be an improvement over those currently selected to give a semblance of ‘balanced’ and unbiased reporting or provide a punch bag for the likes of Andrew Neil and his producer.

    Not optimistic, however, about TV producers and newspaper editors taking to the suggestion. The only way the Rev is likely to come face to face with Neil is if the latter is set up to believe he is going to appear on some innocuous programme only to discover he is appearing on Indy TV live.

  162. North chiel says:

    the plan will be to “make Ruthie look good” for Hollywood (sorry Holyrood)
    Possibly central office has already “tipped her off”
    re possible Osbourne partial u turn on tax credits ( Nov. budget)??

  163. Clootie says:

    The difference is;
    Stu is pushing a clear point of logic which any normal person would support.
    Andrew is pushing propaganda which will please his neoliberal pals and ensure his lucrative contract at the BBC is maintained.

    One driven by a passion for the truth and the other driven by simple greed.

  164. bobajock says:

    The biggest issue to come for the next referendum, whenever it may be, has to be one of information dissemination. If we imagine there are another 30% to convince, then they are probably typical ‘non IT literate’ types.

    WoS et al serve a purpose that hits home, and I reference it a lot in my online and in pub debates, but come the next indyref, we are going to need better ‘common’ media coverage.

    The National – yes, its there, but a lack of a mainstream TV or radio media is going to be the ball and chain.

  165. caz-m says:

    Lollysmum 11.20am

    Re: LBC Radio station.

    I didn’t realise that it could be that difficult to set up a radio station.

    I thought it would have been an ideal way to counter BBC Scotland bias.

    I still hope someone sets up some kind of Scottish radio station.

  166. Angra Mainyu says:

    Clootie, that video plunged me into a deep depression… those bastards have been spouting out their lies for about 40 years and I didn’t even notice.

    Followed up by Top of The Paedophiles too… sums the whole scene up.

  167. craig sheridan says:

    Nah, she will be just fine for a bit. She can nip down to the food bank a couple of times and also feel great about owning a little bit of the 167 billion Trident renewal. Then she can commit suicide.

  168. David McDonald says:

    Today the BBC are saying there’s been a real terms cut of 8.5%.

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