How the north was lost
The reasons for Scottish Labour’s obliteration at the hands of the electorate last week are manifold, and most of them were very thoroughly explored in the weekend’s press, for example by Kevin McKenna here and here.
But as is our wont here on Wings, we wanted something a little more empirical to get our teeth into, so a few days before the election we commissioned a poll of 1,013 Scottish voters from Panelbase covering some of the subjects the regional office had campaigned on under its branch manager Jim Murphy.
The results were fascinating.
Murphy’s first policy pronouncements on winning the leadership, supposedly in pursuit of the votes of Glasgow Man, all seemed to be about football, specifically the Offensive Behaviour (Football) Act and the end of the alcohol ban at matches. The sport was the passion of Scotland’s biggest city, ran the apparent reasoning, and it had voted Yes, so something had to be done to win the core Labour heartland back.
The loudest voices of Glasgow football supporters – echoed, as it happens, by pretty much the entire media, which is heavily dependent on selling newspapers to them – are those in opposition to the OBFA. As recently as Saturday the Herald carried a large story bigging up a 4500-signature petition from “Fans Against Criminalisation” against the Act.
(For perspective, that’s less than a third as many signatures as we got a while back for a joke petition inviting Gordon Brown to “Go f**k yourself”.)
So we realised that to understand the issue properly we’d have to find out the football allegiances of our poll group. From previous experience we’d learned it was pointless breaking it down to individual clubs outside the big two anyway (you end up with samples of two St Johnstone fans), so we focused on Glasgow, dividing respondents into four groups: Celtic, “Rangers”, other clubs and people who didn’t like football.
We found that 16% considered themselves fans of “Rangers”, 11% Celtic, 18% another Scottish club, (plus a further 9% who identified with a non-Scottish club), and 48% not interested in football. Unsurprisingly, the “Rangers” fans were the most Unionist, having voted No by almost 2:1, but still split almost evenly between the SNP and Labour (41%-40%), while Celtic fans (57-23), those of other Scottish clubs (56-25) and football-haters (46-21) were all much more likely to back the Nats.
(We should note that we owe “Rangers” fans on Twitter an apology here. In a couple of quickly-deleted tweets this week, we misread the tables and considerably overstated the UKIP backing among Ibrox denizens, although in our defence they are the most UKIP-friendly support in Scotland by a large margin – 7%, compared to 2% for other clubs and 0% for Celtic.)
But their differences almost vanished when it came to the OBFA.
“The Offensive Behaviour (Football) Act 2012 bans the singing of sectarian songs in and around football matches, but some supporters claim it infringes their civil liberties, or that it was intended to victimise their club alone.
Do you support the Act, or do you think it should be abolished?”
ALL RESPONDENTS
Support the Act: 60%
Should be abolished: 14%
Don’t know/don’t care: 26%“RANGERS” FANS
Support the Act: 59%
Should be abolished: 29%
Don’t know/don’t care: 13%CELTIC FANS
Support the Act: 64%
Should be abolished: 25%
Don’t know/don’t care: 11%OTHER SCOTTISH CLUBS
Support the Act: 76%
Should be abolished: 10%
Don’t know/don’t care: 14%NON-FOOTBALL
Support the Act: 54%
Should be abolished: 8%
Don’t know/don’t care: 38%
That’s a colossal margin across the board. Scots as a whole back the Act by a massive 4 to 1. Celtic fans – the voices most often heard complaining about it, and in particular the prohibition on the IRA-praising ditty “Roll Of Honour” – back OBFA by over 2.5 to 1. “Rangers” fans support the Act less than their Celtic counterparts, but still by a thumping 2 to 1.
Supporters outside the Old Firm, meanwhile, want it to stay by a crushing margin of almost 8 to 1, and bewildered onlookers by almost 7 to 1.
So let the debate end here. Every single demographic in Scotland, without exception, including the people targeted and supposedly “victimised” by it, backs the Offensive Behaviour (Football) Act overwhelmingly, despite uniform media criticism and the constant shrieking of persecution-complex loonies. The government is representing and enacting the wishes of the people. Jim Murphy picked a loser.
But what of booze? The Scottish Labour leader made an outwardly-compelling case: that football, still a mainly working-class sport, is uniquely discriminated against. Fans can enjoy a beer at rugby matches, or at any other sport, with only football excluded. Is it really a threat to society, Murphy asked, if Hamilton Accies and St Johnstone fans relax with a lager at half-time?
That position, of course, overlooks the fact that no other sport in Scotland has a long and shameful history of booze-fuelled thuggery, and also that reducing Scotland’s alcohol consumption, even for two hours at a time, is a desirable goal in itself. But we’re not here to reprise all the arguments, we’re here to report the poll data.
“The purchase and consumption of alcohol has been banned inside Scottish football grounds since 1980. Do you think the ban should stay in place, or should it be repealed?”
ALL RESPONDENTS
Keep the ban: 70%
Allow alcohol: 10%
Allow alcohol except at games involving “Rangers” or Celtic: 7%
Don’t know/don’t care: 13%“RANGERS” FANS
Keep the ban: 70%
Allow alcohol: 14%
Allow alcohol except at games involving “Rangers” or Celtic: 10%
Don’t know/don’t care: 6%CELTIC FANS
Keep the ban: 67%
Allow alcohol: 22%
Allow alcohol except at games involving “Rangers” or Celtic: 6%
Don’t know/don’t care: 5%OTHER SCOTTISH
Keep the ban: 70%
Allow alcohol: 9%
Allow alcohol except at games involving “Rangers” or Celtic: 15%
Don’t know/don’t care: 6%NON-FOOTBALL
Keep the ban: 71%
Allow alcohol: 5%
Allow alcohol except at games involving “Rangers” or Celtic: 3%
Don’t know/don’t care: 20%
We’re calling that comprehensive. By massive, massive majorities all the way across the board, the people of Scotland want booze kept away from football. The HIGHEST level of support for Jim Murphy’s proposal was among Celtic fans, but even they wanted alcohol to stay banned at their matches by a thumping 73 to 22.
When the Glasgow Man strategy failed to turn the polls around, Scottish Labour tried some new tacks. The first was the classic “Vote SNP get Tories”, a fatuous tactic based on pretending there was no difference between a majority Labour government and a minority one kept in power by the SNP, and characterised by the desperate and increasingly tortured clinging to the endlessly-debunked “biggest party” line.
But that didn’t work either, because not only were Scots not SCARED of a Labour government that was reliant on the Nats, they actually WANTED it that way. When we presented respondents with a forced choice between the two, the preference was almost 60-40 for an SNP “conscience”:
Obviously that figure was distorted by a huge SNP vote (although, who are the 5% of people who were voting for the Nats but wanted a Labour majority?), but significant minorites even among those voting for the Unionist parties actively wanted the SNP holding the Westminster government’s feet to the fire.
And of course, the point is that SNP voters were the primary target of the attack anyway – people already voting Labour didn’t need to be persuaded away from the Nats. The numbers of Tory and Lib Dem supporters it affected simply weren’t ever going to be enough to make a significant difference, which helps to explain the epic failure of the tactical-voting campaign.
Murphy’s penultimate throw of the dice was the bogeyman of Full Fiscal Autonomy, giving another outing to Labour’s last tried-and-trusted tactic when all else has failed – frightening pensioners. Again, we’re not here to debate the merits or failings of the policy, merely its efficacy as an electoral strategy.
“The SNP propose “full fiscal autonomy” for Scotland, which means the Scottish Government controlling all taxation and spending. The other main parties all oppose it, saying it would lead to a bigger deficit.”
Scotland’s voters back FFA by around 3:2, including around a fifth of those who were planning to vote Labour or Lib Dem. But again, it was really SNP voters that Labour needed to win round, and just 7% of them were convinced by the blood-curdling tales of gargantuan deficits.
The final gambit, of course, was the phantom of a second referendum. But we didn’t bother asking about that because it had already been dealt with in a recent Survation poll for the Daily Record, which the paper misrepresented heinously in print but which actually found that over 80% of Scots DID want another referendum at some point, with almost 60% wanting it within 10 years.
The prospect simply doesn’t terrify the electorate, because democracy rarely does. We suspect that if there were ever to be another referendum people wouldn’t want a three-year campaign again, but voters tend not to object in principle to having direct decision-making powers put into their hands.
Jim Murphy unquestionably inherited a bad position. But under his leadership, the party’s strategic strike rate was 0 from 5. At every single turn, he took a position in opposition to what the people of Scotland wanted. That, not what was perhaps always going to be an irresistible electoral tide, is Murphy’s failure.
And the good news – he’s staying on…
Every one of those Labour ‘commitments’ has tweedle dee and tweedle dum’s fat sticky fingers all over them.
Ahhh but we were wrong – remember SNP trumps everything !
Rev. you have confused me again.
I support OBFA, but, I think that act, as drafted, is bad law; it was introduced hurriedly and should be re-examined, if only on the basis that law enacted at speed is usually flawed.
I also, as someone who has spent decades in press boxes around Scotland, am well aware that cash-strapped Scottish football is allowing a potentially high income strand to lie dormant, by the clubs’ inability to sell alcohol within their grounds.
I see how well-behaved Scotland’s rugby fans are, as, pints in hand, they watch games. I refuse to believe Scotland’s football fans would not display the same level of mutual tolerance and good behaviour.
Murphy was right to highlight the issues of OBFA and drinking at games. That said, he should maybe have put these causes further down his manifesto or hit list, in favour of other issues which would have resonated more-loudly with the demographic he was trying to attract.
But, there again, Big Dim Jim truly was/is dim and with an over-inflated opinion of his abilities. Another area where the SNP won a watch when he was appointed.
Slow hand clap for Murphy.
I think the post on Saturday suggesting a “Keep Murphy” campaign has much merit 🙂
Even the hardcore football loving 1690 wielding no voting queen fans I know are calling for his head, I’m amazed he still has the audacity to stay.
Best thing for Scotland and the labour party is that he does stay on. Oh please! 🙂
…I have to give credit to Johann Lamont for the shrewdest bit of political timing for decades. The time spent in the bunker was not wasted!
We’ll he says he wants t stay on but I suspect next Labour leader will have some say in that.
I suspect at least one if not more of the recently unemployed MP’s will be up for challenging Murphy.
His position in normal thinking terms is untenable given the election disaster.
However Murphy has no alternative but to keep going because like the rest of us he needs to retain employment.
What else is a lifelong political animal like Murphy going to do. He won’t get a cushy number with a Union as they don’t like him. His demotion and then banishment from UK shadow cabinet and subsequent loss of his seat means there is nothing for him in London.
Holyrood is only option for him now and there is a long long list of Westminster ex MP’s who are also lining up that option. If he sticks with it as Leader he will get a safe seat. If not he has to fight for a place with the rest.
Murphy and others in charge of the campaign had been too long away from Scotland. In order to win you must know your target audience,and only the SNP had a positive handle on how the Scottish people were thinking
Disaster for Archie Macpherson!
Nice One Rev Stu,
Wings dares to ask the questions that nobody else raises…
and then writes a brilliant analysis.
Superb dissection of the Madness of The Three Ms.
Best laugh on here for ages Socrates… Well since the last cairns cartoon anyway.
To the point though, Murphy was ‘ably’ supported by three things –
McTernan
McDougal
And sycophantic hardcore labour activists who actually, *really* thought that when we were all praying for Murphy to be appointed,mit was because we were scared!
He surrounded homself (as the rev usefully pointed out in various features) with the people he didn’t need to convert, some of whom are truly toxic.
Great post, especially the last paragraph. Informative yet succinct as usual, soaring above the msm 😉
Not entirely o/t:
“Post-match analysis”, if anyone happens to be in my neck of the woods on Thursday evening – warm welcomes guaranteed!
link to twitter.com
I support the OBFA in principle, but think there are genuine concerns about it that should be taken on board (I’m not up enough on sectarianism to fully understand what they are, but there is enough concern from non-shouty-extremist folk to convince me it should be looked at).
As with alcohol at football though, attempts to politicise those concerns using extremist sectarian minorities and in particular the way such attempts were made during the independence referendum, were counter-productive.
These are the kind of things that need discussed calmly and with cooperation and agreement. A pox on the house of anyone who tries to whip up sectarianism for political ends, and I think Murphy and others in the No campaign were guilty of that. It’s good to see majorities rejecting that approach, even if some of them probably do have similar concerns about aspects of the act.
I would have read your piece but for your stupid italics round Rangers. You really need to grow up. Any way you’ll be getting humped again very soon. And stick to what your good at, pissing on politicians, not Rangers fans who come here to support your blog.
I always enjoy these opinion polls of yours.
Fascinating Stu, and bears out what you’ve been saying for months.
One quibble : do you have to persist with “Rangers”? It’s tiresome. We all know you have contempt for the club (or should that be “club”?). I mean, in the interests of balance (this is a politics site after all), maybe you should refer to your own club in future as Aberdeen “AB55” F.C. Was that not the banner your fellow Dons fans unfurled at Parkhead?
“rangers” are the reason I discovered this blog…
Keep your hair on Jock… This isn’t The Herald. Its Stu’s blog and as he is an Aberdeen supporter I’d expect nothing less than such a windup. If that irks you to the point of actually not commenting on the feature other than to highlight that, then it says more about you than Stu.
I somehow doubt you would fail to wind up your opponents givne the opportunity and your post for me, can be used to highlight exaclt *why* I can drink plenty beer when I’m at Murrayfield but cant have a babycham when at Central Park to watch Cowden… Football fans uniquely in sport, cant seem to shrug, laugh and retort wihout getting all huffy.
I explained the football rugby thing in great detail some time ago this time I’ll boil it down
The human condition requires conflict as was used for entertainment in ancient times
Rugby, however you look at it is in truth a violent game
Grown men bang into each other using all their physicality to win the game, tactics are secondary for the need for contact to be satisfied
Football has too many rules to satisfy the same emotion
Referees penalise participants for over use of contact
leading to frustration by the viewer thus not satisfying the need for the gratification sought
Add alcohol which lowers inhibitions and the frustration
manifests in violence in the viewer
This finding though in no way is to suggest that all people are subject to equal emotion
But as a general rule has been found to be accurate
@Socrates McSporran
Ah but it seems to me that a lot of more women go to the rugby than the football, especially Old Firm games. The women tend to keep their men in check more when it comes to the drinking.
It’s a Catch 22, you have to make Scottish football more family friendly, but if you do that the opposition to introducing drink will likely harden. IOW I wouldn’t get there by starting here.
Could Murphy just go? The majority can’t stand the sight of him. There are enough of his associates to finish off the job. McConnoll and his lying associates are directly responsible for the poverty in Glasgow. They made £Millions from it. They are a disgrace.
Now for the Holyrood elections to finish off the job.
Football and shopping the Opium of the people.
I have no interest in football whatsoever except international level. And as such I have no real opinion regarding booze at matches, given that I have no anecdotal evidence either way.
But I thought I’d comment to back up Jock Wishart. This site is brilliant when doing it’s core job of dissecting “news” and comment. My quote marks there were something I think all would agree with. But the “Rangers” thing is a wee it stupid.
Remember, no voting Rangers fans need to be converted into yes voting Rangers fans!!!!!
“The thing about football – the important thing about football – is that it is not just about football.”
? Terry Pratchett
Unfortunately he was right.
Try having fan integration seating first, if they are mature enough to deal with that for a year then maybe they could be trusted with a drink.
By not publishing the poll results and an analysis before the election I thought you had missed an opportunity and perhaps wasted you money.
What do I know!
Great analysis. I certainly now have a clearer view on OBFA
Also, this morning I have a vision of smurph wriggling in agony in a dark corner after reading your post. Not that he does of course (read very much).
Thank you
Maybe the “inverted” “commas” represent the tongue in cheek notion that a high “%age” of Rangers fans actually support them as a sporting club.
While a “highly vocal minority” use the club as “an excuse” to “divide and confuse” young or marginalised “supporters”.
Football is mainly played in winter, is often very boring and therefore bovril, soup and tea are far more suitable – Scottish fans are well aware of this.
Excellent analysis as usual Stu. However, the Murphoid didn’t really have any alternative key policies to present. “Like Tories but nicer” may be true, but it wouldn’t set the world on fire.
Excellent article Rev.Stu.
It tends to confirm my rapidly growing suspicions that this election was deliberately lost by right wing apparatchiks in the Labour party.
Nobody coul be that shite accidently could they?
I agree with your political analysis but the petty parenthesis surrounding Rangers and some strong language needlessly offends many. I have no interest in Football .
Seat or no seat, mandate or no mandate, Murphy must stay as Scottish branch manager for Labour. 🙂
They should keep McTernan and McDougall too.
Excellent analysis rev, btw.
Craig Murray has an insight into how the People’s Party are planning a come-back
link to craigmurray.org.uk
@Andrew Walker: I think you missed the point, this post isn’t about Rangers or football, it’s about Jim Murphy getting his strategy hopelessly wrong at every turn.
Far from being “stupid”, this post is probably the most accurate insight into Jim’s hapless strategy you will ever read, (and there will be plenty in the coming years), especially as it’s backed up with relevant evidence from specially commissioned polls. The Rev is a genius.
I couldn’t vote for Dim Jim as I have a brain and can think coherent thoughts, in other words I’m, like most people, not a numpty…..I also vote SNP, which kinda proves my point. However I would prefer to have Dim Jim as SLAB’s leader because he makes great cringe-worthy TV and is a very good reason why people shouldn’t vote SLAB.
Murphy and Dugdale
The perfect double act. 🙂
@ Rev Stuart
Good stuff but from a data analysis perspective I’d have to question the “don’t know” option’s inclusion in the FFA poll. This, of course, splits the result 3 ways and if it wasn’t there as an option then I can only guess at what the result might have been. It wasn’t there in all the other questions though and that would need to be justified one way or another.
That said, I don’t think we have had a proper conversation with the elctorate on FFA (yet). In all honesty, I get the impression the SNP have concerns about it being implemented right now but if we were to have borrowing powers as well as corporation tax I think it would be a no-brainier.
Will the Tories go that far? I doubt it. The media is going to hammer us if we reject what they do offer, though, accusing us of bottling it (confirming that we know we are scroungers, that we are too poor to go it alone, etc.) and this is going to require a very carefully considered response from the SNP leadership.
This debate will be in on our laps next week. The Tories are going to want to move fast.
Some comments about Murphy’s position as the leader of the Labour party in Scotland have left me puzzled. If someone replaces him, surely it couldn’t be an ex M.P, because as far as I understand their rules, that person has to be either an serving M.P, or M.S.P. And as to them, the ex M.Ps, standing in the Holyrood elections next year, didn’t they, the Labour party in Scotland, bring in a rule preventing them from doing that very thing? Anyone?
It is not FFA without borrowing powers, for FFA excludes a sovereign currency and you must have one or the other to run an economy.
Stuart, maybe issue a health warning that McKenna mysteriously sings Dugdale & Sarwar’s praises in the Gruniad article. nearly spat ma cereal , that I was told to eat.
The simple fact is, Scotland no longer needs the labour party.
Scotland has grown out of the labour message, and its requirement to having it’s hand held by the labour party throughout it’s past political life.
Their’s only one blue tory, one red tory & one orange tory left in our country, hell mend them it’s what they deserve.
The poll analysis is superb, Rev. Empirical and incontrovertible.
Re: Kevin McKenna.
Like Paul Sinclair, McKenna provides wit and insight as to where Labour has gone wrong in Scotland.
But then both Sinclair and McKenna use words like “Dugdale” and “Alexander” in the same sentence as “talent”.
And that shows that even they, too, have stopped listening to their own otherwise excellent analyses.
This is not a cheap shot. If you really, really want to rehabilitate Labour with a whole new party in Scotland then the oleaginous pseudo-intellectual Douglas Alexander and the mind-numbingly dumb careerist Kezia Dugdale are not going to turn it around. Only dig a deeper hole.
What of the claim that Sturgeon was once as raw as Dugdale. Yes, once upon a time Sturgeon was the nippy sweetie.
But Sturgeon was always as sharp as a razor and came from a position of actual centre-left principles. To believe that Deputy Dug is cut from similar cloth is … well, a gift to the SNP who now have the likes of Mhairi Black.
Once upon a time a young firebrand like Black would have been Labour through and through. But now: forget it.
The SNP is the centre left party in Scotland now. Deal with it.
The real question is, what happens to the right wing of the SNP – the Ewings et al – who have stayed loyal and will continue to do so until such time as more Scottish Tories wake up to the idea of Conservatism without Unionism.
All of this is extraordinary and begs questions like, why did Murphy not do the same as WoS and find out what voters think?
They thought that with total press and BBC SLabour bias, they could do anything they felt like and especially after THE VOW fraud via Daily record spivs.
If you believe you have an automatic right to reign over people forever and ever, it probably doesn’t even occur to you to find out what the electorate actually think, until its all over that is.
Hope they’re all going to do this from now on.
Oh sweet joy! Kaye Adams on now with the usual array of calls. The lack of basic arithmetical ability with some is shocking. What the moaners don’t get though is “wot won it” – and just how people felt on the doors. Thanks Rev – without you I know I might have lacked the confidence and knowledge to go out doorknocking with RIC then SNP.
And to add to WoS, RIC, Alex, Nicola let’s all thank Slab and the unionists. They helped us win – I began to lose count of their own goals.
These 5 points probably affected a low percentage of votes but the seeds were ultimately sown with them siding with the Tories for 3 years, denigrating Scotland on a daily basis and the term “Red Tories” caused the parties annihilation.
Jim Murphy … snatching catastrope from the jaws of defeat!
Fiona, I think there’s a lack of clarity on exactly what FFA means. And I’ve heard it defined in several ways, some that include borrowing, some that don’t, some that include corporation tax, etc.
…and of course the vow!
I don’t think the Labour parties rules are “set in stone”.They can change them,if need be,to get the leader they want.It would seem rather pathetic though.
@ heedtracker.
Mr Murphy and his team did not find out what Scottish voters think, because they already “know”.
His choice of initiatives demonstrates his utter contempt for the electorate. That is mirrored by Ms Davidson’s tweet about “burly blokes” at the Annan polling station
These people have a picture of working class people which is profoundly insulting, and that is the root of the problem. They promote and believe the “underclass” narrative, and because of that narrative they do not mix with the voters, for reasons of “security”. Compare the SNP.
Kaye sounds much more smiley this week, or at least less “Peston-esque” where the drab sliding flat tone at the end of phrases, makes even a plain fact sound negative.
Is project fear on hold?
Is this a honeymoon?
Is there a reshuffle on the cards at BBCScot.?
I was asked a few years ago, by a friend, to join the Green Brigade online forum, because I happened to support a United Ireland. Ny stay was short lived due to the level of appalling ignorance and Unionist bigotry. Yes that’s right, green brits wit laptops who could not string two words together without swearing online. There Brit leftie, Vrit anarchists and Brit Wine and Grapes. The real Irish Republicans, in Ireland were much, much different and these loud mouth yobos were unrepresentative of Irish Republicans at best and a disgrace at least. Singing and dancing at Parkhead doth not a Republican make. If they want to see the “Forces of the Crown” they only have to face the Directors Box and see them all, Unionist to a mn, Lord Reid was a Secretary od Sate for Northern Ireland. Labour, sen t the Troops IN in 1969 and introduced all the. Draconian laws, that made them the worst offender of Human Rights in the EEC.
Sorry must dash will finish this later in the interests of harmony. Up the Jags!
I can’t help feeling that come the next bye election in a safe English seat Murphy/Alexander/Bain will be shoe horned in
… Flat toned gent on BBCRScot.. “Scotland didn’t vote for the SNP..”
Then, when writing this… lady replies.. “you’re havering a load of crap”
Lol
@ Aceldo Atthis
I think it was right to include a “don’t know” option in the poll precisely because the waters on this are so muddy. But I think those who take an interest in this do generally subscribe to “control over everything but defence and foreign affairs” and I do no believe it can mean anything else.
It is profoundly important that people start to discuss this now, because FFA is not going to be offered, so far as I can see. People need to know the purpose of FFA, and to understand what any offer of powers short of that will mean: mostly they will put us in a worse position, both economically, and politically (because people will take rejection of lesser powers as “bottling it”, as someone above mentioned).
The time for real consideration of various options and opportunities is now: before we get a big shiny box with nothing in it but misery
To be fair to Jim Murphy, I don’t think he gets enough credit for avoiding a total wipe out and hanging on to one Labour MP in Scotland.
Well done Jim, you get my vote, well you don’t really, but you know what I mean.
Given the failure of the type of tactics Murphy, back by Scottish Labour tried, it’s difficult to see how they will ‘turn it around’.
If they go to the electorate effectively saying, “OK we’ve tried to terrify you and ridicule you, but that hasn’t worked, so now we are going to try ‘this’, whatever ‘this’ is.
Like a bully, who tried to terrify into getting someone’s pocket money, found that didn’t work, saying, “So, now I’m going to be your pal, give me your pocket money”.
The point is regarding the abolition of the Offensive Behaviour Act. The Daily Record and others on phone ins. Make out that there is a majority opinion to abolish the act amongst fans.
The truth is the small number of bigots given airtime by MSM and Slabour. Are indeed the only ones who want it repealed. Why? Because they are bigots and want to act like bigots and get away with it.
Shame on you Jim Murphy you numbscull!
Can FFA be defined better by comparison with an Independent Scotland rather than the present set-up?
As a nationalist (and a rangers supporter) I am unsurprised by these figures.
There are bigots on all sides of the religious/football divide who will happily sing fuck the pope, or celebrate UK servicemen being killed……. Thankfully my belief is these Neanderthals are in a minority as the figures show.
What they do illustrate is Jim Murphy was unaware of this which groups him with the Neanderthals.
Again that is unsurprising.
He has carved himself an undeserved repute as a shrewd political operator
I would suggest this has now been comprehensively debunked in the eyes of the aware electorate.
“I also, as someone who has spent decades in press boxes around Scotland, am well aware that cash-strapped Scottish football is allowing a potentially high income strand to lie dormant, by the clubs’ inability to sell alcohol within their grounds.”
Not being in the least interested in football, perhaps I’m not the best person to comment, but it seems to me that part of the reason the football clubs are so ” cash strapped” is because of the over inflated salaries that the football players command!
It really amazes me that people hardly blink an eye at the silly money paid to men kicking a ball around a park while nurses, teachers, firemen etc are paid a pittance in comparison!
news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/4898392.stm
Time to reconsider our priorities!
This was the “bye” election for the inability to care nature of the previous representatives.
THE SNP need only TRY to do better, to do better.
Yes, Labour in Scotland REALLY WERE THAT BAD..
Re Rangers fans complaining on Wings:
Since a few of you are clearly upset about “Rangers” and have expressed your unhappiness so well, can you confirm you are equally active in writing to Rangers FC expressing concern about the Rangers allowing ‘red hand’ flags and the singing of GSTQ etc at football games?
I find these things insulting, as do most fans of other clubs, so what do you do about these actions?
If as is repeatedly claimed by some on Wings, it is a minority of the Rangers support who indulge in sectarian singing and other behaviours then it goes without saying it would be very effective if non sectarian Rangers fans began to express concerns and unhappiness to those in charge at your club.
Perhaps an on-line campaign to encourage Rangers fans to join a group who will campaign to remove the sectarian elements from the Rangers support, would be appropriate and if indeed the majority don’t want sectarianism and the silliness of GSTQ etc, then it would soon attract a sizeable following.
Once this happens then the commercial interests of those in charge of Rangers, would be best served by ditching the Unionist/Loyalist brand and turning Rangers into a football team with no add ons.
This would challenge the ‘add ons’ at Celtic and should they themselves continue they would look very silly. (rebels without a cause)
So rangers fans who are upset at the contempt being shown to your club, instead of bleating at Wings, why not put your letter writing skills to better use and contact your own club and begin to take your club away from the Loyalist/sectarian elements who are the cause of the hostility your club ‘enjoys’
“No one likes us, we don’t care” – My Arse!
I noticed in honest Dave’s wee speech that there will not be another referendum on his watch that he referenced another dictator with the old rule brittania mantra that the UK “stood alone against Hitler” did they now?
Great analysis and laying bare of Labour’s incompetence.
It also shows that their strategy must have been derived at based on their own prejudices rather than hard facts and stats.
I remember being soooo pleased when Murphy got the job as branch administrator. Yup, he was an excellent choice … from an SNP perspective!
Listening to the Kaye Adams first part of the show just then.
HOW can people not see that they ARE more represented by a party that isn’t led by what thier masters TELL them to say at Westminster??
Jeez!!
Great point Patrick and well said. Where was the dissent from yes voting Rangers supporters when that main stand sized banner urging us to vote no was unfurled before the vote? You can’t have it both ways when you come on here moaning.
@ Fiona says:
11 May, 2015 at 9:35 am
@ heedtracker. These people have a picture of working class people which is profoundly insulting, and that is the root of the problem.
They saved the City rich with aplomb, grace, panache, what ho Gordon!
Scots want FFA and then they want another referendum within 10 years, which makes perfect sense. If you’re a UKOK unionist, you’re not going to allow that to happen.
The challenge facing UKOK unionism? How to block FFA but make it look like FFA is happening, via BBC and usual tory press bias.
THE VOW fraud was a very nasty stab at cheating Scotland but they will only permit fiscal autonomy that would actually make Scotland worse off.
Such is this all new and shiny “one nation” fraudster campaign by the blue tories. They monstered Scotland and England agreed they didn’t want Scots near their government. But it lost even more Scottish voters last week and the UKOK shyste stumbles on.
The anti St Johnstone tone of this post is reprehensible
scotsbob says:
11 May, 2015 at 9:41 am
I can’t help feeling that come the next bye election in a safe English seat Murphy/Alexander/Bain will be shoe horned in.
All I can say is balls,
Ed Balls.
I don’t understand how you can be an independence supporting Scot. Then go to a stadium which is the most English/British part of Scotland ,(Ibrox). Put up with English,British and Ulster flags. Sing pro British and often anti Scottish songs.
Can someone explain why you would support an institution like that! Rangers whole ethos is British Protestant. Again why not just support a Scottish team or at least not an anti Scottish team.
It’s akin to me going to Orange Lodge conventions with a Scottish flag and singing Flower Of Scotland. Why stay in a rotten institution when you are in the minority, and the majority don’t want what you want?
Fiona “I think it was right to include a “don’t know” option in the poll precisely because the waters on this are so muddy…”
The question of how muddy you, I, or anyone thinks a question is really shouldn’t be considered a justification for manipulating the result, whether that manipulation was intentional or not.
I could just as easily argue that the other questions which didn’t have a “don’t know” option were muddy — it’s a value judgement and you are expected to avoid value judgements in polling, especially when they affect the outcome as the example mentioned probably did.
And there are other methodologies in polling that allow you to ask complex questions without skewing the result. In this case, you could define what FFA means in the question and simply ask if the respondent was for or against FFA as defined. If the definition was uncertain, you would be expected to deal with that issue first.
As it stands, that particular part of the poll would probably be rightly considered valueless although I would say it was indicative.
It’s an interesting question whether Murphy was the cause of Labour’s collapse or the victim of it. I have definitely been critical of Labour’s tactics and that criticism seems vindicated by this polling data (plus some slightly more significant polling data collected last Thursday!)
It’s obvious that a Labour government with the support of the SNP would be a popular choice for Scots. Labour’s attempt to discourage this by an absolute refusal to do any kind of deal with the SNP probably only made Scots dislike Labour even more.
I also wondered why the SNP refusing to rule out another referendum at any point in the near or distant future was likely to be persuasive to very many people. It also gave the impression, as did a great number of Labour’s strategies, of regarding the electorate as stupid.
Even without Wings excellent research, you could tell any man who expects us to believe yesterday he was an arch Unionist, today he is not, was certain to be making all the wrong choices to back.
His tragically flawed judgement rests with his vanity to the point he is delusional, the same imperative that makes him think he can continue in office.
Like his master’s voice, Miliband, vanity was always going to be his downfall.
In pratical terms, I never understood where he got the time to get his roots tinted so regularly, plus a monthly hair dye wrapped in silver paper, and fight for Scotland.
Hi Stu I agree with wulls,I’m a Celtic fan and we do get a minority of Neanderthals not just in the old firm but across football as a whole but come on mate why keep saying “rangers” this way?
o/t I took the referendum badly like many people,I am just getting back to using the internet again and still to re-open twitter and fb,I was absolutely ecstatic with the outcome of GE15 and that put hope back into my heart and faith in my fellow Scots again Wings and all canvassers do a great job so let’s all work even harder in 2016 and kick all the unionist partys ta fuck…Scotland #1
I am a member of the near half of the population polled here that would drill one’s own teeth out rather than waste a half day mingling with drunks at a football match; an event during which 22 men chase a leather bag of wind while feigning battlefield injury at the merest suggestion of a collision.
I just can’t make my mind up which is more puerile; Jim Murphy’s opportunistic & childish tactics or the supporters who think we should tolerate their chorus of bigoted invective.
Questions can now be asked, like never before.
And with WOS and others around to focus on the plain realities… U.K. GOVERNMENT SPIN HAS NOW BEEN SOMEWHAT NEUTRALISED.
Scotlands narrative of identity, is twisting and turning, moving ahead in terms of social inclusion, a real voice from a confident self-respecting community.
All are welcome to have a voice in society.. what you see is what you get.. We see our faults and you should see yours.
Just my 10p worth, but I think the fault of Labour in Scotland is that they want to appeal to generally right wing England, and always select a ‘Scottish’ leader who is London’s man.
Not getting into the football debate except to say I support any measures which reduce violence and sectarianism.
I clicked thru to the Kevin McKenna piece, as I always try and read his stuff, he has a nice style, and good vocabulary.
BUT, ffs, Kevin, you ruined a good piece by the bit at the end – Labour lost some good and gifted men, McClymont, Created ans Sarwar, or as WGD, likes to refer to Sarwar, Scotland’s hereditary MP.
These are not great men! McClymont was my MP, Labour put him onto Smith, because he is an obedient, useless robot. At hustings, you couldn’t help but be embarrassed for the guy, he couldn’t tell us anything he has done for the area in 5 years.
Anti frackers know Greatex as the Labour architect of the useless ‘safeguards’ he put forward as a fig leaf for Labour’s support of fracking, which were comprehensively dismantled in the Bill.
These are not great men/politicians.
It seems that Jim Murphy is finally listening, but only to the voices in his head.
Time for reflection for the Labour Party in Scotland. If they want to be Scottish Labour they have to cut the apron strings from London. They have to formulate their own ideas but given they are not genetically programmed for this and are too wee, definitely too poor and stupid they will blunder about for one heck of a long time till the penny finally drops.
I foresee many ex Labour Voters voting Scottish Socialist next year because they will not be able to stomach what has happened to those they supported for so many years.
Or just not support a sectarian club. Losing support hand over fist. Revenues going down, down. Unmarketable. Keep politics and religion out of sport. A universal appeal.
What are SLAB to do now that their staunch allies in the BBC Misreporting Scotland and the Scottish MSM couldn’t even save them? The BBC and the Scottish MSM were as big a loser in this GE as Labour. With the full might of the Triumvirate levelled against the SNP they STILL took a tanking.
That, folks, is the ‘Power of Wings’. The days of mainstream media message domination are over. With social media we were able to communicate effectively with each other and debunk their rubbish in seconds (massive, massive kudos to the Rev). And it must surely worry them that they can no longer control the message. There will be some response to this. Their powerbase has been severely damaged and they won’t take it lying down. There will be a response for they will want their powerbase back.
We must never allow them that.
@ Helena Brown
Where do you see the political space for Labour even if it sets as independent from the London based party?
It is true that we probably need an effective right wing opposition, and they could fill that void. That the plan?
There’s a lot of bad stuff coming from Westminster this morning regarding Scotland and more powers or not and the weight of opinion from the Tory boys is NOT
The Smith Commission it would appear is as far as Cameron wants to go and no further or lump it Scotland
This would seem to be a game of Call my Bluff by Cameron knowing the First Minister fought the GE on the basis of no Referendum unless something dramatically changes
My feeling here is Cameron thinks it’s too early for The First Minister to ask Scotland the question again for fear of losing the vote, so a way may have to be found to demonstrate to Scotland we have been betrayed yet again
by the forces of darkness
Which is exactly what all of us on Wings predicted right from the start
But will Scotland believe us this time,the media are all set to swing into action against us as soon as they get the word it’s all looking unpleasant to me
Murphy’s still squatting in the branch office WHY?
Selfies and believing the Hype are not substitute for a bit of proper research. Complacent. Milliband did not want to be PM. He wasn’t up for it. Neither was Cameron which will shortly become apparent. Neither of them care.
Thanks Rev Stu. Where would we be without you.
Like his master’s voice, Miliband, vanity was always going to be his downfall.
Is he even the full ticket GB? Mind Murphy on STV’s debate was it, earnestly explaining to one audience member how he wanted to scrap Trident, then straight away turn to another and smirk about how there was no way he would scrap it.
Either Trident option has for and against stuff but to state them both at the same time, on tv, in front of people you think will vote for you is very odd behaviour.
Fair enough this rule Britannia UKOK scrap/renew/dump on Scotland WMD Trident con’s been going on for ages but even so.
Dr StrangeMurphy:D
Unless there was some ulterior Machiavellian plan for the SNP to win.
A festering little niggle which lingers in more than my own tortured subconscious I suspect.
Kevin McKenna’s principles are clear
although he might change his mind, but he’ll be just as clear then after he changes them to something else
It’s called I agree with nobody until they disagree with me and then I can see their point and agree again
Confused?….So is he..but hopes he didn’t offend or maybe,
does that sound right, I can change it
[…] The reasons for Scottish Labour’s obliteration at the hands of the electorate last week are manifold, and most of them were very thoroughly explored in the weekend’s press, for example by Kevin McKenna here and here. […]
Our Imperial masters are displeased. Cant think why
link to archive.is
SNP wants Liberal Democrats’ third party parliamentary perks
Scottish National party demands greater status in Westminster, including Nick Clegg’s office, questions to the PM and committee chairmanships
Was draped in Rangers when I was growing up.
Ditched them to support my more logical local team, when I grew / manned up.
There is no reason for ANY of my family, children, etc to ever actually support a faraway football team.
Like the union, Rangers decline (and the denial of it) has been fed by greed, historical guilt and misplaced patronage
“The Offensive Behaviour (Football) Act 2012 bans the singing of sectarian songs in and around football matches, but some supporters claim it infringes their civil liberties, or that it was intended to victimise their club alone.”
Leading AND misleading all in one.
Cam murphy be sacked ? If he doesn’t step down , he has taken legal advice apparently , so if they sack him would he fight back with lawyers. do they not have to wait until the next conference to discuss the position. Could be a big can of worms about to be opened. Interesting times ahead
@Broch Landers
Superb post.
On the question of FFA, this reminds me of “the biggest party” line which needed explaining to people but, once understood, was no longer effective as a persuasive argument by the opposition.
Perhaps an explanatory article or leaflet about FFA could be produced (the sooner the better) so that people have a good grasp of the issues involved and will be able to counter any spin or scare tactics the opposition will undoubtedly attempt.
scotsbob at 9:41 am
Alexander maybe but surely Murphy is utterly toxic after last week?!
As a number of folk have said, there were many factors in play leading to the rout of Scottish labour last week. However, it all boils down to this:
One third of Scottish Labour’s core support voted YES last September, and they failed to understand why. They still don’t understand and until they do, they are going nowhere. It’s not rocket science, so why did all those super red tory brains miss it? Well, basically their judgement has been clouded by the rise of the SNP. They refuse to understand because, from a unionist viewpoint, the truth is too awful to contemplate. They have been forced to wear their unionist glasses, which are very cloudy these days.
My advice to the “Scottish” Labour party (what’s left of it) is take off those unionist glasses, and you will see clearly what the people are telling you.
I think the SNP’s win has been understated. In view of the fact that (apart from the Scottish Sunday Herald) the UK’s entire main-stream media was anti SNP, it was a massive achievement for the SNP to get 50% of the vote in Scotland. Scotland’s Unionist Parties, Labour in particular, should consider themselves fortunate that the overwhelming support they received from the main-stream media probably saved their vote from being totally annihilated.
We keep hearing from the BBC about how unfair it is that UKIP got 12.5% of the UK vote but only got one seat while the SNP got 4.7% of the UK vote and got 56 seats. Some-one needs to point out to the BBC that the SNP only contested 59 seats and won an average 25,000 votes per seat. UKIP contested all seats across the UK and won an average 6,000 votes per seat. If UKIP had averaged 25,000 votes per seat they’d probably be in government.
No one here as yet has mentioned Balls contribution to labour downfall, when he was on morning tv after the budget and was asked what he would change in the tory budget , and said not a lot, how can any labour shadow chancellor agree with a tory chancellor’s budget and still have any respect with the voters, basically saying the tories are right why bother voting for me .
Murphy will have no remuneration. He obviously intends to work for nothing or on the dole. Do voluntary work as ‘head’ of ‘Scottish’ Labour. How long can that survive. Unelected Unite are already pulling the purse strings.
Just another quick thought – it looks as if the FFA/more powers issue is going to be a sticking point. It has been suggested earlier that any tough negotiation will be spun as the SNP’s refusal to accept ‘Westminster’s generous offer’ or whatever.
Could this be the reason why Murphy is hanging on for the moment? So that when things do get heavy, he can ride in to the rescue of Scotland with a loud “Told you so. Let me lead you away from this madness”? Grimly clinging on, waiting for the SNP’s first ‘hurdle’ – along with the compliant media – so that he can do exactly that.
A tenner says that’s the case. Any takers?
@Broch
As I alluded to in a previous post. Perhaps the U definition of ‘talent’ is different. ‘They’ could be using an entirely different set of criterion to judge their front folk.
I’m thinking things like the ability to sell things which are untrue, smearing the opposition and using extreme negativity might be viewed by ‘them’ as being positive skills. By that definition, perhaps they are ‘talented’.
Murphy will soon have first hand knowledge of the benefits system. That should be interesting necessary research.
@Dr Jim
“Murphy’s still squatting in the branch office WHY?”
Actually I really hope Jim Murphy stays on as regional branch manager…
Partly for the amusement value.
Every time someone says the word “fundamental”, I have a little giggle to myself as I hear “fundilymundily” echo in my mind.
It’s such little things that make me happy in these dark times! 😉
But mostly for the fact that Murphy’s very existence is a gift to his opposition.
Every time he opens his mouth, Labour’s already decimated popularity drops still further.
Go on Jim, Scotland is counting on you! 😀
Labour are a unionist party.They got nearly half of a dwindling unionist vote.How much more do they really expect?
Ok, hypothetically, if Scotland had 56 SNP MPs’ prior to indyref,and with the legitamacy that it brings, would we have won? Labour bought time and screwed Scotland over.Rot in your shitey breeks ‘Scottish labour’
I doubt Murphy’s vanity allows him top perceive the mere sound of his voice is disliked, therefore any return to the front line will only result in the public’s derision.
But the press and media must share in the blame. They promoted the mediocre and the downright nefarious as good for Scotland’s health, while subjecting those caring of its future to slur, smear and black propaganda.
For me, as a socialist, Blair’s love of Thatcher’s cruel policies, followed by Brown handing the nation’s wealth to crooked banks and finance houses, was enough to carve in stone their contempt for Scotland’s interests.
The leader of the Labour Party in Scotland is shurely always an elected representative-that’s just a fact isn’t it?
The ignorance of BBC ‘journalists’ comprehension of elementary Maths is alarming, especially being funded with £Billions of taxpayer’s money. The fact is the BBC is run a Fraudster who can’t count and should be in jail. Cameron’s associate.
To those asking why Murphy is hanging on….oh come on, it’s simple, as soon as he relinquishes control he’s finished.
Murphy must officially be categorised as ‘damaged goods’ now within Labour. Given all the other MPs they have lost I can’t see him being high enough up a ‘by-election candidate list’ to expect to make a return to Westminster this term. Especially so since we all suspect he wasn’t ‘in favour’ with London Labour even before the recent disaster.
As for Holyrood next year, can anyone really see him getting the nod to stand for a seat there if he’s forced to resign as leader now? If he tried I doubt he’d get elected on the constituency vote, so his best chance would be to be on or near the top of the Labour list candidates. Can you imagine Murphy being happy to be a list MSP at Holyrood?
No, Murphy knows the game is up, but his only slim hope of salvaging his career, and fat pay cheque, is to cling on to as leader of “Scottish” Labour. After all, what else is the guy qualified to do job wise? He’s desperately trying to avoid being a career politician with no career!
@Dr Jim, yes! It’s an emerging theme with some, trying to ride two horses,even when one of them is dead!
At least some down south in the media are being honest, saying Labour’s demise is not down to what happened in Scotland, as they point to some of their heartlands. However, even Marr had to say on election night – the SNP are not the Viet Cong, they have a lot of thought out policies.
We now have to endure the south screaming about the unfair electoral system, which never bothered them before, when SNP was one of those small parties.
Is there any chance the executives and BBC Trust of BBC Scotland will demand full implementation of an autonomous BBC Scotland from their London counterparts, or will they still live in apprehension of Downing Street repercussions?
Do you think BBC Scotland has learned a single lesson from the Teutonic shift in Britain’s politics?
@Richardinho
“The leader of the Labour Party in Scotland is shurely always an elected representative-that’s just a fact isn’t it?”
🙂
Yep, to paraphrase ” everybody knows that the leader is always the MP who gets the biggest majority in his constituency. That is just a fact.”
The question of FFA/FFR depends on the attitude to short and long term benefits. Would people accept a deal where Scotland is worse off for a few years, but has the chance of far greater long term growth rates?
As things stand, we will be losing two thirds of Barnett funds in return for income tax which can’t be used effectively to make up the difference. Put it up and many of the wealthiest will relocate to England. Berwick would soon get a lot busier.
It’s business taxes that are needed the most.
The OBFA is a sectarian Law that should never been brought in. There were already perfectly adequate Laws to deal with Offence, if they were enforced. The majority in Scottland are non religious.
The Law was brought in by (lapsed?) Catholic Ministers to protect Catholic football supporters. A mistake. Bad Laws affect controversy.
For those who think that Mr Murphy will need to sign on and has an income problem: is it not the case that he has property in London and gets rent for it? I don’t think he will be reduced to benefits any time soon. Doesn’t really need a job, as the term “need” is normally understood
@Grouse
“Do you think BBC Scotland has learned a single lesson from the Teutonic shift in Britain’s politics?”
Regarding alleged impartiality, you can’t stretch the knicker-elastic of credibility too far or it will snap?
@ Onwards
FFA is control of all of the economy: with a proportionate contribution to defence and foreign affairs the only thing under WM control
I have no idea why you think that there would necessarily be a short term cost for this, if it were fully implemented. The problem is that it is extremely unlikely to happen: there is no way I can imagine that WM will lose control of Scottish resources and the money they bring in. Anything which is offered, even if it looked like a big increase in autonomy, would not be useful unless Scotland had full freedom to borrow: that is an essential component of a different economic policy, and while we share the pound it is never going to be agreed.
Without that freedom we can probably still make some improvements to the current situation, but they will not be enough to obviate real problems in the transition, IMO.
This is what we really need to get to grips with
@Donald Urquart
So you were the other Saintee!
Richardinho says:
11 May, 2015 at 11:40 am
The leader of the Labour Party in Scotland is shurely always an elected representative-that’s just a fact isn’t it?
The doubt arises because the rules seem to read only that they must be MP/MSP/MEP at the time of election and are silent on what would happen if/when they lose that seat. Presumably they never considered this to be a possibility.
@MarkAustin
Is it still possible for a member of the House of Lords to be appointed party leader? Like Douglas-Home? Or has that been done away with?
Mind you, who the hell there would improve Labour’s chances?
All this moaning over the voting system by those who lost
It’s pretty offensive really when you consider a party can only play the rules that are in place
This constant carping on about the SNP share of the vote is utter nonsense because they all deliberately miss out the fact that Scotland is a country, we are not Chipping bloody Norton or Thanet South or wherever
The SNP stand in Scotland and nowhere else, so they won what was in front of them
Whether you consider a change of voting system is needed or not is irrelevant
For Farage and Natalie Bennet or anybody else to quibble over this is just pointless the Tories are in power and they aren’t going to change it now so for the smaller parties that’s life
the SNP had to overcome the rules and did,
a few times, Remember
Are ex-Labour MPs entitled to claim JSA?
I wonder how many will end up in the Lords or as list MSPs?
Scottish Labour can no longer afford financially to cut the London apron strings, what with their small and dwindling membership, alienated trade unions, and entitled to no short money.
I hear Stormin Norman is on a flight from Washington to Glasgow today. His covert mission is to smoke out Murphy! The code name is ” Snakeout”
Poor Smurphy.
Why don’t we campaign to give him the job of First Curator at the new Scottish Museum Of Curiosities.
Yes, kids. We kept one of each just to let you see what used to roam this fair land of ours.
Heedtracker, it’s the whole ‘framing’ of the reality of what takes place with parliamentary protocol now taking effect because of the party’s democratically elected mandate, that is completely skewed as ‘demands’, ‘wants’ et al, as if any such thing is actually taking place!
That whole article insinuates ‘unusual’ and ‘unfair’ or somehow ‘underhanded’ motives on the part of the SNP. F***kin’ blatant ‘subversive’ SNP message conveyed!
This is usual, fair, and parliamentary protocol for all parties entering the commons. The Guardian channelling Daily Mail, blatant partisan click bait. Arsewipes. They really don’t like their cosy consensus being challenged, do they? (Rhetorical).
Sorry o/t and apols if mentioned already but on Going Underground on RT blue tory thief “sir” Malcolm rifkind said that the SNP landslide is irrelevant because “the country” voted tory so like it or lump it.
Later in same programme unionist red tory ken livingstone said that Scotland is not capable of independence because the oil price is low. Go figure.
Throughout my lifetime Slab has had nothing but contempt for Scotland. Murphy thought he could continue with that approach because he didn’t believe that it could ever be different. He thought it just needed more of the same contempt and the peasants would fall into line. The annihilation of Slab must be followed through to completion at Holyrood and local level. The people we have displaced are PREDATORY – they cannot be changed, only displaced and carefully monitored to ensure that they don’t pop up somewhere else to undermine all that is good.
However, it stands to reason that there are decent people who have naively supported Slab, believing that it could change and genuinely seek to promote principles of common decency. To those people I say, look to your conscience and disassociate yourself. Support one of the parties that does not seek to exploit people – SNP, Greens, SSP – or set up an independent Scottish Labour Party that can genuinely embrace Scottish independence. In other words, go back to your roots. ‘Labour’ is NOT the property of the British Labour Party. Take ownership and enrich the political process in Scotland.
gillie-every one of them would get sanctioned for 6 months as they all got themselves fired for gross misconduct to Scotland.
Missed the 56 arriving at WM this morning. 🙁
As expected, Angus Robertson still in charge of the SNP group at WM. But the msm won’t listen to that.
A bit from the telegraph setting out what is on for the SNP.
link to archive.is
‘National’ front page naw! Good stuff inside though.
@mike cassidy
That’s a 9 🙂
“Why don’t we campaign to give him the job of First Curator at the new Scottish Museum Of Curiosities.”
Wonder if that museum would have that original product of the Scottish computer game industry – ‘Lemmings’? Tag line ‘The future of SLAB’.
“big jock says:
Can someone explain why you would support an institution like that!”
OK then, I will. It’s quite simple really. I was born, brought up and still live in the Southside of Glasgow. Just like I occasionaly go to Pollok Juniors games or do you have a problem with that too?
Hark!
Ian Murray -Shadow Sec State for Scotland- Spoiled for choice.
Got a flier from Tesco this morning (not been in there for 2 years except to buy a HUDL at Christmas) too many unionjacks.
Free vouchers and a big saltire on the flier. 🙂 Aye right!
The silent majority who do not phone into Radio Scotland’s phone-in programmes voted SNP. It is quite an achievement considering the anti-SNP tone of the press (except Sunday Herald and The National with small circulations) and television news. The SNP grassroots organisation helped to neuter this.
Iain McWhirtwer’s article on his blog;
link to iainmacwhirter.wordpress.com
Mealer
I don’t think Labour did get nearly 50% of the total vote in Scotland, but I have not seen that figure.
Anybody got that, and Libs and Greens?
Apologies for going O/T here and if this has been mentioned before.
I have just read a lovely tweet from a certain Yvette Cooper who, if memory serves me right, is one of the intimated front runners to be next Labour leader, London HQ.
We as a party need to convince Scotland, that it is still a valuable part of England. This is the only way we will defeat the SNP
Nice to see they are STILL, even after last Thursday’s landslide thumping delivered to their branch office, behaving like Scotland is just another REGION of England. Long may they continue this cause the longer they do the MORE people in Scotland will get p****d off with them. 😀
I thought I was going mad when I saw the results in the National saying practically every seat in Scotland was a huge swing “SNP to Lab”. Could I be ignorant of the terminology, surely not? Relieved then to see the graphic at the top of this article.
Does anyone know what the Tories plans for ‘federalism’ entail? My worry is that they are going to try and split Scotland up so that’s it’s no longer a strong cohesive unit. Breaking Orkney and Shetland away is an obvious act for them. One of the reasons I was concerned that Carmichael won.
I remember Miliband pre-election telling us ‘not to gamble on the SNP.’ After all these years of good administration in difficult times he used the term ‘gamble.’
That’s how remote he was from Scottish politics.
I have supported Rangers man and boy,
for the fitba, no all the rubbish that goes with it.I think there is a lot of total hypocrisy spoken here today. Am I meant to stop supporting my team cause a few Rev arse lickers say so?
I at least use my own name no like that pudding McHaggis and Big “man” Jock.
The point I am making is, creating the divisions that cause all the arguments is not the way forward for football and Scotland.
Not once have I been given the impression that the anti Rangers rhetoric on here, and I am here every day at least twice, is banter.
However IF it really is banter it should have an element of humour about it.
You wonder if some early market research was carried out by SLAB?
0:5 gubbing
Good analysis and thanks.
Maybe the Lone Labourite from Embra can be the North British Party leader of himself?
Murphy has to pay the mortgage of the rented out flat. Murphy’s extended finances will soon lead to difficulties. The trough is stopped. The dole awaits. First hand experience.
Have to laugh at that Telegraph article saying that the media will simply ignore Angus Robertson and treat Alex Salmond as the leader.
These are the same people who criticised the SNP for being a ‘one man band’ and calling Salmond a ‘dictator’!
Do they have no professional integrity at all?
Jock-good on you for supporting your team in that Rule Brittania environment. There is no way I would be able to handle it for 30 seconds never mind 90 minutes.
This is usual, fair, and parliamentary protocol for all parties entering the commons. The Guardian channelling Daily Mail, blatant partisan click bait. Arsewipes. They really don’t like their cosy consensus being challenged, do they? (Rhetorical).
In reality its unbelievably undemocratic and even worse coming from an outfit that sells itself as progressive and liberal.
Hasn’t Scottish democracy pulled the smiley face mask off of some cunning fakes and nasty shysters in teamGB.
Jim Murphy is rich and needs no other source of income. He is also deluded – as is the British Labour Party.
Jock Wishart – The argument is against the institution of Rangers not individuals. I am asking why you support a bigoted anti Scottish institution.
Unfortunately it’s not an isolated minority. The flags are 85% Union at the games. Don’t close your eyes to the truth because you want to rationalise your choices!
Don’t blame me for pointing out the facts you wish to deny exist.
Your point about the newspapers relying on sales to football fans, although made some time ago, elsewhere, by another commentator, is most telling.
What is more telling is the fact that they were so misguided yet so insistent.
I feel like a sycophant saying this, but to hell:You have outdone the MSM, yet again, with your unrivaled nose for a fresh angle, backed up by hard-numbers.
Donald-think Murray would probably destroy every last remnant of the NB branch if that happened as he is the most thoroughly unlikeable character I have ever seen going by his despicable media appearances. God knows how he won that constituency.
Re the alleged tweet from Yvette Cooper about Scotland being a “valuable part
of England”, I am persuaded by FB friends that this in fact a spoof account, as denoted by the use of the underscore between her name and the term “MP”.
So I think we may have to give her the benefit of the doubt here.
To put a bit of personal light on this Rangers issue.
I have supported Thistle all my life. The day they turn up with union flags and start singing Rule Britannia is the day I drop them!
My nation and integrity are more important than any football team. Football is a game not a political party.
All I am asking is why you would want to be around the kind of bigotry presented at these games. I would feel uncomfortable,intimidated and dishonest!
And that (article), Rev, is just another example of why WOS is my No1 pro indy site. Thorough analysis backed-up with evidence and explained in a simple and straightforward manner.
_________
A big warm welcome to any new posters.
I’ve read 3 or 4 posts from names i haven’t seen before.
You’ll find that we all have different backgrounds and opinions but the one thing which bonds us all is a desire for Scottish independence. Welcome aboard and don’t be shy, get stuck in.
😉
Apologies for O/T but, in view of all the Conservative talk of the need for austerity and cuts, can someone explain the justification for the continued existence of the Scottish Office and the Sec of State for Scotland?
We need full autonomy for broadcasting in scotland, or the lies and threats will go unchallenged, and re the football, like the tory vote in england, they love us so much, they didnt even want us (celtic or rangers) in their premiership!.
Patrick Roden at 10:06
“Re Rangers fans complaining on Wings:”
Well said. Good comment!
How much in fees did the lead weight of McTernan cost Labour Scotland?
And is he looking for new employment?
Alex Salmond (except when in his own constituency) should publicly shun the media, speaking to the whole UK only through parliament, where his statements are in context, and can only be reported as such.
Waste their time and send the media up blind alleys, isn’t that the WM way?
@jock wishart
I realise that there are Rangers fans who are not unionists (though I don’t know if you are tbh)-in fact for a long time Govan was the the SNP’s closest thing to a stronghold in Glasgow- nor ardent monarchists, but you’ve got to admit that it’s a tight line to tread.
I really wonder how people manage it but for those who do I doubt they’ll have any difficulty appreciating that criticism of Rangers F.C’s political leanings doesn’t mean any ill will to those who just want to watch some football.
With 56 MPs the SNP should be looked on with respect as representing Scotland’s wishes.
As a political movement that campaigns for ultimate Scottish Independence, more so!
If David Cameron and the London Establishment refuse any demands for greater powers which fall short of full Independence, then it is no exaggeration to declare that Scotland is, in effect, under occupation from a foreign power as Democracy will be demonstrated to not apply to Scotland.
It’s all very well for the Westminster Establishment to moan about perceived final outcomes of the Independence Referendum but this General Election result was not an Independence Referendum.
Westminster and Cameron are walking a very dangerous route.
@big jock,
To use a billy Connolly joke.
It’s that Partick thistle FC? I stress the FC as most English think there called Partick thistle nil.
🙂
O/T
Indeed jcd @12.35, we don’t mind about oil prices, to not have to send the revenues to westmonster would just be a bonus for us, the reason they wanted us to ‘stay’ is due to all that lovely money we send to them and that the keep, giving us a wee bit pocket money back.
The subsidy junkie myth continues they just cannot comprehend that Scotland is actually the opposite being a wealthy, talented, capable country without them tagging along.
Cameron and his new cabinet trying to ape Nicola and hers standing before the Forth Rail Bridge. Cameron’s lot would have been better in front of London’s giant Ferris wheel.
Not sure I understand this, so are Labour not supposed to argue for certain things to change just because people are already against it?
If we did that then we wouldn’t be sitting on close to 50% for a yes vote….
The offensive behaviour act is a joke piece of legislation that affords the police far too much power and grey areas, the no drinking at football is just plain backward.
I want to reinforce the idea that Rangers fans should move now to challenge the sectarian element in their Club. I know it would be very difficult but it would be worth it. Aside from that let’s lay off the harping that causes unnecessary pain for the Rangers fans who stand with us in our common cause.
Also, there must have been a lot of older people who voted SNP in the GE. That is a huge step forward.
Finally, the disgusting demonising of SNP and those who support independence by the media is just grist to the mill. They know not what they do but they won’t be forgiven for it. More and more Scots will be offended by it and they will reject those who are spreading it. Keep it up guys.
Oops!
Looks like I boo boo’d, and not for the first time is the shout! 😀
The comment I posted earlier came from a parody account. Sorree! 🙁
Apparently Shetland voted SNP.
Grouse Beater @ 1pm — surely the Tories were paying McTernan?
To all those questioning the financial position of sacked Lab/Lib ex-MPs in Scotland and having fun directing them to the Job Centre: please bear in mind that each and every one of these troughers will receive a whacking golden handshake payment courtesy of the taxpayer.
Someone smarter than me will be able to ferret out the exact sums involved, but I’m quite sure it will be sufficient to disbar them from any welfare benefits 😀
Peeps, Wingers are well known for their generosity, so let’s get behind Murphy, and hope he leads the dregs of SLab into the Holyrood elections.
I really want to see that.
Nicola on Loose Women!
@galamcennalath says: 11 May, 2015 at 10:09 am:
“I remember being soooo pleased when Murphy got the job as branch administrator”.
Murphy’s problem was that he was still selling Snake Oil long after his potential customer base found out Snake Oil wasn’t efficacious.
I notice Herald & Scotsman running a story that D Cameron insists there won’t be a second referendum. Really doesn’t get democracy does he? Oh, and I think you’ll find that the people of Scotland will decide that matter, Dave.
TRUST.
For three years i watched the growth of foodbanks and sanctions on desperate people who had no where to turn. For decades we trusted LIEbour to work for us but are now aware they run for the middle England vote.
As a Labour voter i was perplexed at their inability to talk through anything without the bitter vile swipes at the SNP while ignoring the Tory’s.
I will never trust Labour EVER again.
Nothing they will do will convince me they have changed. Listen to the losers speeches. The fucking arrogance was there for all to see.
The SNP have tried for us Scots. Even if they are judged to have failed by others they have at least tried. Mitigating the Bedroom tax whilst LIEbour mp’s said they were against but did not even turn up to vote against. Liars . Compulsive liars . Frauds .
Listening to Curren, Ballie etc lie day in day out turned off the voter. To hear and see the anger from ex-labour voters over the last year confirmed they won’t listen and gave me hope we were over the blind loyalty that many of my country folk gave for decades.
No way back.
SSP can encourage others to join them . They at least stand up for their supporters and Scotland. The SNP will be kept in check with the huge new numbers and i now have hopes that the SE in 2016 will finally kill off the rest of a party that has lied and badmouthed Scotland for years.
Take a good look at the quality on offer form Labour. Third rate. Voice boxes than NEVER answer a question . I wouldn’t give them a job cleaning my toilet bowl.
I’d likely catch something.
Off to disenfect my keyboard now. 🙂
Cameron should offer Jim Murphy a peerage
then make him secretary state of Scotland as a piss-take
I second that stoker. Warm welcome to new readers. Get stuck in and have your voice and opinions heard.
Kevin – Yes The Pertick of Thee Thissellle.
My dad an his dad both supported them. Maryhill Catholics who detested old firm bigotry. They chose Thistle over Celtic a brave move in the 1930’s and 1950’s Glasgow!
Herald & Scotsman running a story Cameron insists there won’t be a second referendum.
Sad for him, it’s not in his hands to decide.
Harry Shanks.
The MPs will have pensions bigger than most people’s salaries and they get a £40,000 resettlement grant.
Politics & Religion interlinked in Scotland, the common denominator Ireland,North & South & our home grown Bigots.
Tattie Boggle 8.43am,seating integration + same Flags Flying above both Rangers & Celtic the Saltire, might bring home to the majority of fans , above all their SCOTS.
Just watched the B.B.C.Daily Politics!! Whole programme ignored what has happened re Scotland and the S.N.P’s 56 M.P’s. The usual format with 2 London based Political Journalists talking rubbish to Andrew Neil and his Co chair discussing (1) The Conservative Party and the formation of their Cabinet for government. (2)The Labour Party and who will be the New Leader. (3) U.K.I.P. interviewing their 1 M.P. (4) The Lib.Dems and what’s to become of them for the next 5 years? The only mention for the S.N.P. during the whole Hour was the Daily Quiz whereby the answer was that the S.N.P would take over the Lib. Dem’s Offices and have removed the portraits of Old Liberal Prime Ministers.
London B.B.C needs replacing fast
Nicola Sturgeon was just on Loose Women ( no i don’t watch it normally) and some silly airhead presenter woman asked her to rule out another Referendum
I fully understand why the First Minister does these kind of infantile English programmes but really, her tolerance must be enormous to put up with these childish gossiping empty heads
A bunch of twits with no understanding whatsoever about politics, let alone Scottish politics
She’s a better man than me Gunga Din
The North remembers…
(And as far as Labour’s concerned, Winter is here!)
Proud Cybernat says:
11 May, 2015 at 10:50 am
“What are SLAB to do now that their staunch allies in the BBC Misreporting Scotland and the Scottish MSM couldn’t even save them?”
Their staunch allies will probably employ a few of them, a weekly “SNP BAD” column in every paper.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Murphy was given a daily slot on Misreporting Scotland. After all, look at all the studio experience he was given in 2015.
Jackie Burd – “And now we go over to Jim Murphy”.
*turns to face stage right*
“Jim, what bad things have the SNP been up to today?”
Camerons new cabinet , the Troughing goes on. He,s appointed the Leader of the HoL as a cabinet PAYED POST,is £300 a day + expences not enough to do the same job.
Earthshaker I read your post with great interest and have to say that MOST Scots have great sympathy for Welsh people and their struggle against Westminster, the utterly biased Media and so on. I’ve also not come across any posters on here ‘mocking’ Welsh people at all but maybe I missed something.
What I do want to pick up on, however, is this comment ‘’About 25% of the Welsh population was born elsewhere in the UK, that’s 500,000 people mainly English who now live in Wales and have a disproportionate influence on elections. Why, they are mainly retired (over 60) who vote and are staunch unionists top up the existing Tory and now UKIP vote.’
This point, to me, is one of THE most important issues relating to either Country ever getting Independence.
Figures show that in 2013 500,000 English people had settled in Scotland (many elderly voters). Since that time the figure has risen dramatically. Following the Referendum I noticed one poll on television (and never repeated) that outlined that 74% of English residents had voted NO to Independence.
If this continues, no voting English people moving to Scotland, (many because they’re attracted by free prescriptions and so on….. or even to thwart the vote) we’ll have a real problem in ever getting our Independence.
We have another problem too and that is that individuals owning holiday homes in Scotland can vote (if they use the home for more than a few weekends each year …. but who’s going to check / disprove). HoC / HoL’s individuals plus massive network will no doubt be buying up properties / holiday homes now. Additionally people could rent accomodation here for a few weeks prior to the Referendum and register to vote before the 2nd September. I personally know of a number of people, English students on holiday, that did exactly that.
I also have examples of ‘dirty dealings’ that went on with regard to voting in the Referendum …..too many to outline here.
If we want to win next time round something will have to be done with regard to who is actually allowed to vote in Scotland. Seems strange that English people living here could vote but Scots living in England couldn’t (discrimination); English Servicemen / women based / living here could vote but Scottish Servicemen / women based / living abroad couldn’t and individuals such as students (from rUK) could hold a vote in two constituencies within the UK and vote in the Referendum.
I would like to point out before I’m swamped with complaints that I’m ‘anti-English’: I am not. I have no gripe with ordinary English people (feel heart sorry for them right now). My maternal grandmother was English and I have many English, Welsh and Irish friends. I am only stating facts.
I don’t support Rangers or Celtic or indeed any football club
and that’s because I don’t care enough to be bothered about it
I also don’t support any religion of any description because I can read, and the evidence of my own eyes informs me it’s never been anything but a source of conflict for no purpose
other than to say my God’s better than your God and I think maybe everybody knows that’s an irrelevent argument
Even if you do believe in that sort of mythical super being
you’d have to admit a bit like what Kevin Bridges says
He’s fucked off and left us an empty
Please leave Jim Murphy alone – we want him to stay!
As predicted, BoJo getting a seat at the top table beside Cameron and Osborne, all Bullingdon boys together, they make me vomit.
Can’t believe that even Cameron has put IDS back in charge of Social justice, what a misnomer! But then, why change when he is so good at the job of pursuing the disabled and vulnerable.
@ Alan of Neilston 1:35 pm
“Just watched the B.B.C.Daily Politics!! Whole programme ignored what has happened re Scotland and the S.N.P’s 56 M.P’s….”
Alan, I have been trying to make the point that most voters in England did not consider the issue of Scottish Nationalism when they cast their vote. Neither the Tory nor Labour vote hardly moved. Yes there were issues with the LIb/Dems and UKIP – but Scotland was not a major issue.
Doubtless I will be accused of “trolling” again (i.e. having a different point of view it seems) but, as always, it is all about the economy. The SNP did brilliantly and produced a stunning result – but in the context of the Westminster Parliament, on a day to day basis, it is not the big issue. Labour’s inability to get any traction with the “aspirational” classes, the flight of Lib/Dem voters, the rise of UKIP and most importantly, the economy, are the major issues.
Devolution/autonomy/Independence in Scotland is of course a subject on its own and solutions need to be found that reflect what it is that the people in Scotland want. Personally, I don’t know what that is. In terms of the SNP’s aims in this parliament, can you tell me what level of autonomy Scotland wants based upon the results of the GE and the referendum – because I genuinely do not know.
He lives in Bath Spa so he may be a wee bit out of touch.
The popular name for the brand-new club, which somehow avoided the usual process of election to the second tier of fitba, is ‘Atletico Sevco’ (est. 2012). No quotation marks necessary.
They play at Ib-on-the-rox, I am told.
In terms of the SNP’s aims in this parliament, can you tell me what level of autonomy Scotland wants based upon the results of the GE and the referendum – because I genuinely do not know.
You lost. You’ll keep losing. Go out and work man.
Quinie’s got it right, the Yvette Cooper on Twitter is a parody account. It’s a good joke, and sadly all to believable nowadays that a Labour highheidyin would say England instead of UK.
Tut tut, Lesley-Anne, it was easy enough to find out. The Rev teaches us, & expects us, to do our homework.
The truth will free us, but first we have to fight for it.
Sorry if this has already been linked to.
Arise everyone who voted S.N.P. we are all now officially MARXISTS! 😀
link to archive.is
Isn’t it nice to be so loved by Westminster! 🙂
Ya wee dancer.
Apparently some of our FAMOUS 56 are ALREADY starting to p*** off the London centric hacks. 😉
I just love this tweet from Jamie Ross.
Quentin Letts says, with a small amount of disgust, “there’s a geezer with a pony tail” among the new SNP MPs.
I wonder how long it will take this odious wee git to realise that the FAMOUS 56 are from Scotland and do NOT do what Westminster tells them to do any more. 😀
Ronnie -Correct
Celtic and Rangers play in the Scottish league in Glasgow Scotland. Why do they have a Tricolour and a Union flag above their main stands.
Pathetic I say!
Petra-this will definitely be our biggest obstacle in any future vote, the elderly won’t be here forever but incomers are where it will be won and lost, we MUST reach out to them as that is a huge figure to overcome. I think this task will be extremely difficult if not nigh on impossible I’m afraid. I know it’s a thorny subject on here but a proof of scottish birth vote would win it for us guaranteed. I have used this analogy before but think hypothetically,if Germany lost an independence referendum due to their massive Polish immigrant vote voting no do my fellow wingers think the
Germans would meekly accept the result? Doubt it.
There was already legislation to ban sectarian singing prior to the Offensive Behaviour (Football) Act 2012. The 2012 act was brought in to cover songs that aren’t sectarian but might be offensive to some people, as you mentioned the Roll of Honour (a song remembering the ten who died following a hunger strike, later praised by Nelson Mandela no less…)
The wording of the question therefore (‘The Offensive Behaviour (Football) Act 2012 bans the singing of sectarian songs in and around football matches’…) is vague and deliberately misleading. Of course if you ask anyone this simple question who doesn’t know the ins and outs of what this act is, they will say they support it. I doubt very much that anyone was voting with this being anywhere near a key issue, unless they themselves have been a victim of it.
Rees Mog and Mhairi Black in a committee meeting. Can you imagine! We can dream!
” Those awful ruffians from the schemes of Jockland are ruining mother England”.
Lesley-Anne A pony tail? Good Grief, we’re doomed. How can he do his job properly if he has a pony tail?
Notice in your Indy link that Owen Paterson talks of promises of health care and free holidays to Lanzarote. Any info on that? I’m bloody freezing and a Lanzarote holiday would be just the job. Can’t seem to find it mentioned in the SNP manifesto. wee smiley thing.
It’s behind The Times paywall but please respond to her politely on twitter.
Melanie Phillips of The Times on why “SNP’s manipulative bullies must be faced down.”
link to thetimes.co.uk
Petra 20% of English in Scotland voted yes. They are not impossible to convert to the cause. I think the rich ones, about 20% are a waste of oxygen though!
I gather Labour is to have a “period of reflection” – tricky, I thought the ‘undead’ do not have one?
Just heard that Mr I Murray has been appointed Shadow Scottish Secretary – I didn’t think they had shadows either. All very puzzling.
At least Mr Murphy’s five silver bullet points seem to have done their job as forensically illustrated by our Rev.Stu.
No more ‘other world’ references – I promise.
I’m with Yesguy on this -“I will never trust Labour EVER again.”
I don’t want to see then ‘reborn’, ‘under new management’, ‘we’re really leftwing now, honest’. I want to see them wither and die out.
I want to see them replaced by the SSP, or some other truly Scottish left or centre-left party. A party with no baggage to hold them back, no placemen, no Henry Jackson Society members.
The SSP has a golden opportunity to harvest the genuine left-leaning supporters who once voted Labour. I trust that Ian Brotherhood and his fellow members are ready to mop up the ex-Labour vote, and get MSPs into Holyrood next year in force.
“Murphy will have no remuneration. He obviously intends to work for nothing or on the dole.”
Not entirely true, he’s entitled to his XMP pension
Anyone know (or care) what McTernan’s next gig will be? Hope when they read his CV they’ll do some background checks on him.
He really MUST be damaged goods by now.
Something I saw on the Scotsman site is interesting in explaining how the north was lost, and how the north of England could have been lost as well:
Labour’s problem was that it had to appeal to the ‘aspirational classes’ in England, and then had to pitch well to the left in Scotland, Wales and the North of England. This was far too big an ask.
Further, I have seen it suggested that all the SNP’s talk of bolstering Milliband, might well have encouraged a lot of English Labour voters to go for the Tories; but I can’t see that in the poll data.
@Petra, 148pm – yes, there are many people of English birth in Scotland and they almost certainly voted three to one against independence. The SNP needs to think how to reach out to this part of the electorate.
I saw a figure of approximately £12m is the cost to all UK MPs who lost their seats in the election. Most of them Scottish (50)
However Jim and others will not be short of a £ or two and they probably have a 2nd home to sell subject to mortgage and tax rules of the UK.
Found this article as a guide:
link to archive.is
PS:
My usual phone call from the Oban parent-in-laws (ex-lib/dem voters) was curtailed this morning as my father-in-law suggested diplomat, that he is, that probably best not to speak to ‘her indoors’ at the moment……..Hmm!
I stifled a guffaw, as I pictured her cutting up the daily rag, she “hates Sturgeon” even more that she did Salmon… I’m astonished! Don’t worry folks oil on troubled waters later…Oh!
I won’t mention the oil or the war..either. 🙂
So if Cameron was ruling out another Referendum I wonder what the implications are for the Northern Ireland agreement and our ‘family of nations’, and ruling ‘for all’?
I think the ge in scotland 2016 has come to soon. The populace need at least 3 yrs of getting booted in the baws, savaged, and demonised. Then, nicola could put udi on the manifesto, because a 2nd ref will be as rigged as the first one!
Hobbit says:”@Petra, 148pm – yes, there are many people of English birth in Scotland and they almost certainly voted three to one against independence. The SNP needs to think how to reach out to this part of the electorate.”
STOP THEM READING THE DAILY MAIL!
Quentin Quale says:
Lesley-Anne A pony tail? Good Grief, we’re doomed. How can he do his job properly if he has a pony tail?
Notice in your Indy link that Owen Paterson talks of promises of health care and free holidays to Lanzarote. Any info on that? I’m bloody freezing and a Lanzarote holiday would be just the job. Can’t seem to find it mentioned in the SNP manifesto. wee smiley thing.
Sorry Quentin, like you I can’t find any mention of free holiday’s in Lanzarote either. I guess I must have acquired the pre-release version of the S.N.P. manifesto. I’m sure it will be in the REAL S.N.P. manifesto, I just can’t get a copy of that one at all though to confirm this. 😀
Andrew M says:
It’s behind The Times paywall but please respond to her politely on twitter.
Melanie Phillips of The Times on why “SNP’s manipulative bullies must be faced down.”
link to thetimes.co.uk
To be honest Andrew I do think that she does leave herself totally open as a result of using the language that she does about the Scots. This is not the first time she has stopped just short of being openly abusive about the Scots though.
Jim Thomson says:
Anyone know (or care) what McTernan’s next gig will be? Hope when they read his CV they’ll do some background checks on him.
He really MUST be damaged goods by now.
Surely because oor Jim did so magnificiently well in the General Election last week he will want to be keeping Mcternan and the other Murphy side-kick McDougall on as his personal advisors until after he wins the job of First Minister next May. No? 😀
Robert Peffers says:
Sheeeeesh! That idiot Cameron has just said on TV, (Ch4 News).“The UK Stood alone against Hitler.”
‘’The entire British Empire, Free French, Free Poles and many, many more stood shoulder to shoulder with the UK. Why do these idiots insult these brave people who died to supported the United Kingdom?’’
Robert I’d like to pick up on one group that you mentioned that is ‘the Free Poles”.
Polish people have been treated abysmally in this country by the Unionists and Media, past and present.
Poland had the best fighter pilots in WW11 such as Squadron 303. Their Polish pilots ‘top aces’ turned the tide against Hitler for example in the Battle of Britain. Air Marshall Dowding, the RAF commander during the Battle of Britain, had to admit (wonder if it stuck in his craw) that had it not been for the Polish pilots the result may have been very different: We may have lost the War, in fact, if it hadn’t been for them (check it out).
Poland had an extensive intelligence network set up throughout Europe. When Poland fell thousands of multi-lingual Poles spread throughout Europe blending in with native populations and sending valuable intelligence to the Allies. The British got half of their reports from behind enemy lines from the Polish network and Churchill’s staff called them the best spies in Europe.
The secrets of the enigma machine were cracked by brilliant Polish mathematicians but they never get a mention just like the Scottish input at Bletchley Park.
Almost 22% of Polands population was killed in World War11. During the war, more than 200,000 members of the Polish Armed Forces in the West had fought under British High Command.
In 1946 a Victory Parade was held in London.
link to youtu.be
People from Belgium, Brazil, China, Czechoslovakia, France, Greece, Holland, Luxembourg, the United States and so on were represented. The Poles were EXCLUDED.
‘’It’s a story of betrayal and deceit by the British (and Churchill) at Yalta in 1945. For the Poles, having been so resilient and fought hard to help save democracy in Europe, the close of the war represented a cruel and callous act of political duplicity which still shocks even today. How easy it is to forget those Polish people sent home to certain death or the British military sent to quell riots in some of the (Polish) transit camps. Yalta made all Polish personnel on UK soil ‘illegal’ and a political embarrassment to the post-war British government that needed prompt removal for the sakes of post war relations with Stalin. The final insult to all Polish service personnel was through exclusion from the Victory Parade on 8th June 1946……………. polandinexcile’’
I wonder how such a proud and decent people put up with being demonised in this Country. It’s disgraceful.
link to youtu.be
Hobbit says at 2:29 pm
”@Petra, 148pm – yes, there are many people of English birth in Scotland and they almost certainly voted three to one against independence. The SNP needs to think how to reach out to this part of the electorate.”
Hobbit I don’t want to sound pessimistic but I don’t reckon we’ll ever be able to ‘reach out’ to them.
They want to live, prefer to live it would seem, in our beautiful Country. The Country that offers free prescriptions, health care and so on but want the ‘security’? of holding onto the Union.
To my mind a Referendum in Scotland should be open only to Scots who were born and live here. Additionally giving votes (a vote to determine the future of our Country) to foreign students who will move out of the Country when their studies are over is just ludicrous.
Petra, i completely agree with you, to many incomers ie. Unionists in scotland now for us to get a yes vote in a referendum. And im not racist, or anti anyone, just stating a fact. Either scots born only vote, or we need udi. As someone said no other country would let immigrants cheat them our their right to nationhood.
When it comes to Jim Murphy, credit where credit is due I always say, there’s not many politicians who would put there own greed and self interest before their party or the people they represent.
Hmm, I think I’ve got that a bit muddled there.
The only way to get them to see sense, is through FFA.
It’s gnat’s bawhair away from full independence and come the next financial crash or illegal war we’ll be all but ready to declare indy should we obtain FFA in the next 5 years.
I do not buy the fiscal deficit being too large, there is a whole host of different reasons where we can reduce that deficit. The most important part of it all though, will be what Cameron does to tie our hands.
“In 1946 a Victory Parade was held in London.
People from Belgium, Brazil, China, Czechoslovakia, France, Greece, Holland, Luxembourg, the United States and so on were represented. The Poles were EXCLUDED.”
Well, it had to be said that the Poles didn’t actually win anything in the war. They were invaded by the Germans at the start of it and ended up under the Russians at the end of it.
No one ever seems to be notice this uncomfortable fact or think it significant.
@Petra
Just because I was born in England doesn’t make me a pariah. I grew up, went to school and Uni here, then furth to work. Now I’m back I worked and voted for Yes and the SNP.
Yet you would exclude me because you haven’t the wit to come up with a plan to persuade other “English” to make this land their home.
Shame on you.
Thank you for that Robert Peffers. 🙂
I have spent many atime reading up on your stuff Robert. You keep us right. Big thanks .
anyone know where i can watch nicola on loose women. I know folks …. just a wee bit bored 😉
Ian Murray has been appointed as Shadow Scottish Secretary and is anti-trident.
Fluffy Mundell is the Scottish Secretary -a man that never got the job last time round.
Happy days!
So the 3 amigos are the Scottish Secretary, the former Scottish Secretary and the shadow Scottish Secretary and the famous 56 are nothing.
Westminster Rules OK?
Petra-see what I mean? It’s a thorny subject and people take the issue personally. It’s a difficult one.
From a Westminster point of view it doesn’t really matter who fought or who died in any war though does it (lets show our faux regret) Westminster that is
A lot of people got even richer and their sons and grandsons and other relatives are strangely enough running the country
And there are more retired overpaid military personnel in Britain than there are active officers serving in the American Armed Forces
Call me an old cynic
I think the ge in scotland 2016 has come to soon. The populace need at least 3 yrs of getting booted in the baws, savaged, and demonised.
Austerity for worst off, mega bucks for the freak show that caused it all.
link to uk.reuters.com
“A total of 40.5 billion pounds was paid out in bonuses to British workers in the 12 months to April, almost 5 percent more than in the previous year. The finance and insurance industry contributed 14.4 billion pounds of that figure.”
For “British workers” these Reuters liggers mean bankers but cant bring themselves to write that, out in the open.
Scotland’s spends about £30bn in its public sector. Wonder where the City rich stash their bonuses. £12bn more in cuts coming to teamGB asap via Cameron and his one nation thingee.
If first-rate Scots made their careers in Scotland – all those second and third-rate English would have stayed down south and you wouldn’t have the “problem”.
@Paula Rose
And just who are you calling third-rate English?
David Mundell is the new Secretary of State for Portsmouth.
@Paula Rose
And don’t forget that a certain first-rate Scot lives in Bath! 😀
Just when you thought the good news could not stop coming we hear about this. The S.N.P. have won in Norfolk! 😀
link to archive.is
@ gillie.
List MSP’s.
The challenge now is to make the labour party nothing more than a minor party at Holyrood (like the Lib Dems were).
Votes need to go to the Scottish Socialist party and the Greens to provide a credible opposition.
Ultimately the list MP system should be revised, the voters should say who gets on the lists, not the parties.
How could Murphy and his Labour colleagues get it so wrong why were they so out of touch with the electorate,surely after flogging such dead horse policies for awhile,they’d have noticed they weren’t working.
Or were they over confident,thinking that they’d hold and gain seats just because they’re Labour.
I can’t see a way back for them,they aren’t really a left wing party anymore,or at least they’re not seen that way by the voter.
Their position in Scotland has been taken over by the SNP.
Alan Sugar reigns from the Labour party because of its ‘antibusiness’ stance.
That’s how far to the Right Labour has moved when people such as Sugar thinks its moved to the Left.
Erratum: ‘reigns’ – should be resigns. 🙂