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The power of the press

Posted on May 10, 2015 by

The Scottish Daily Mail on Wednesday:


The Scottish Daily Mail on Saturday:


That went well, then.

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  1. 10 05 15 13:32

    The power of the press | Speymouth

359 to “The power of the press”

  1. heedtracker says:

    It was as stupid as it was dishonest.

  2. Mark says:

    Hah! It’s very enjoyable to see some of the Pouters on Twitter claiming victory for the Tory government! As if anything they did affected the result in England and Wales, let alone Scotland. I sincerely hope these deluded folk carry on wasting their time in the run up to next year’s Holyrood elections. Will the new wheel get contaminated too? 😀

  3. DAVIE ALLAN says:

    Buy tactically, buy the National!

  4. Rmac says:

    There is no editorial or journalistic backbone to report the truth and stand up to the owners when the truth doesn’t suit them. The absolute power of the press is hopefully a thing of the past now, most people recognise the spin for what it is.

    What we need now is to obtain some measure of accountability for the broadcasting monopoly that is the BBC and enforce them to comply with their duty to be fair, balanced and factual.

    I suspect that if this were done then we would see an overwhelming majority of the Scottish population demanding independence sooner rather than later.

  5. McHaggis says:

    The sad thing is, the press in Scotland, being as it is controlled mainly from England, will not change tac.

    Just expect more of the same bullshit and tired, jaded smearing and lies in the run up to May next year.

    Plus ca change etc etc

  6. Auld Rock says:

    Let the Daily Fail keep at it, doing a magnificent job for the SNP and saving us a fortune in advertising. Given that 50% of Scots voted SNP and only 36% voted for Tories how can Cameron claim to rule ‘One Nation’? He’ll need to listen to SNP, Plaid and others as we make-up the greater percentage. A decent PR system would be a first stop.

    Auld Rock

  7. One_Scot says:

    With the aid of the internet and now smartphones, the power and manipulation of our corrupt media has been greatly reduced.

    Jings, even my wife is showing me satirical political Facebook pictures and info on her new phone that I am not aware of, and she didn’t even know what austerity meant a few weeks back.

    Times are a changing.

  8. Dinnatouch says:

    The before and after maps in yesterday’s HateMail show very little change in England and Wales, apart from some constituencies deciding the Lib-Dems weren’t Tory enough.

  9. Jack McKenzie says:

    I wonder how much leeway the right wing press will give Cameron if he appears to be soft on the Scots.

    If they give him too hard a time in appeasing Sturgeon, just imagine how bad things will get for him during Euro ref.

    Maybe Boris has a point. Give the Scots a fully federal state now and be done with them. In his mind it’s a fait accompli. Or maybe just something he doesn’t want to worry about when HE becomes Tory leader.

  10. Stoker says:

    The Rev wrote:
    “The Mail is, distressingly, the third-biggest-selling paper in Scotland”

    I know of one woman who is pro Scottish independence and The Mail has always been her rag of choice, go figure.

    Aye, there’s nowt as queer as folk, eh!

  11. gillie says:

    Vote SNP get SNP

    Vote Tory get Tory

    Vote Labour get feck all.

    Vote Lib Dems get laughed at.

  12. JLT says:

    I never believed tactical voting would work. In my opinion, there are probably 2 reasons why it didn’t work, even though the theory of it makes sense.

    First, for a number of people, they have been ‘conditioned’ to vote for a certain party from a very age. Parents, Grandparents, Uncles, etc, tell the youngster that ‘this is the party to vote for, and to never forget it. Never turn your back on the party’. So no matter what that Parties policies are, even if some of the policies look completely stupid …they vote for the party.

    Secondly, you then have the ‘class’ ideology. Could a person who is affluently well-off vote for the Scottish Labour Party, especially when they can see that it is led by the great clown prince himself in Jim Murphy. Anyone with vested interests in seeing their financial portfolio being maintained, is going to be highly bemused with the Scottish Labour Party. And Ed probably didn’t score that much higher in the confidence charts with his hotfooting around the SNP question as the Tories gleefully called the tune.
    Same with someone who has voted Labour all their life. Anyone on a basic wage, on benefits or just getting by might as well cut their right arm off. Why would they vote Tory knowing that Cameron and co are going to hit them hard with austerity measures?

    I never worried about tactical voting. As said, in theory, it should work …until you begin to look into the human factor of it.

  13. Malcolm says:

    Had the misfortune to read Max Hastings in the mail on Sat. (Yes, I know!!!).
    Deluded odious little turd of a man.
    Racist, elitist xenophobic prat.
    But let’s not forget (by his own account) he liberated Port Stanley from the “Argies”.

  14. frankieboy says:

    Now that the Labour Party and LibDems have been dispensed of it might be time to turn our attention to ridding ourselves of this vile Press. Starving them of any revenue would be a start. Ignoring them might be even better. They have nothing to say.

  15. muttley79 says:

    What now for the SNP Pouters? Employment as circus acts? 😀 😀

  16. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    One of the unintended consequences of the recent campaign (and the Referendum campaign) is the self destruction of the credibility of MSM and the BBC.
    This is good news

  17. G H Graham says:

    time for a media focused poll?

  18. Grouse Beater says:

    Excellent articles from Ian Bell and Macwhirter in the Sunday Herald.

    The hysteria getting whipped up by Cameron and his hordes is ugly and unhealthy and will rebound. Anyhow, here’s my modest contribution until the next one:

  19. Wulls says:

    I have said it many times before……we have the most politically aware and best electorate in the world here in Scotland thanks to sites like Wings, Bella Caledonia, Wee ginger dug etc.
    these unsung heroes ( yes you Stu) have mercilessly debunked the shite we used to blindly accept as gospel to the extent we now question everything we see in print.
    Now that sounds like paranoia……indeed it would be if there was not so much exaggeration, lies and manipulation being exposed day in day out.
    The MSM have lost all credibility over the course of the referendum and the GE.
    Again thanks to sites like this………
    Long May it continue.

  20. Big Jock says:

    The first thing Dugdale said after the defeat was. The SNP helped the Tories win by creating division between English Labour and Scotland.

    So Scotland by default is responsible for the Tory government because we elected 56 nationalists. Its like rinse and repeat for the chronically stupid.

    Scotland voted SNP because Milliband courted the right wing vote. England is a rightwing country and Scotland left wing. You can’t win Scotland and England with the same campaign. Its why UK Labour are finished in Scotland.

    This one national better together crap is self delusion. My boss at work voted no and said it was because he didnt want to desert the working classes in England etc. Usual guff! The truth is England deserted Scotland years ago. I think he is finally seeing this with the poles apart election results.

    The UK can never be a left wing country now. There is already talk of a Blair style reshaping of UK Labour. When will Scottish Labour realise Scotlands future cannot be Englands and stop blaming others for their myopic intransigence.

  21. Iain Gray's Subway Lament says:

    Yeah well it’s only a matter of time before the low IQ Daily Mail tells us tactical voting and/or polling causes cancer.

    Or indeed cures it. 😀

    Never met anyone willing to admit they bought or read that tabloid. It’s an obvious badge of shame to do so.

  22. Davy says:

    It will be funny to see how the MSM & bbc portray the Scottish government/SNP party now that they have a majority for most of Scotlands political appointments.

    Will they act in a more fair and even manner ? or will they remain the bunch of one sided unionist shits wer’e used to.

    I would like to take this oportinuity to thank yersel “Stu” for all the fantastic work you have done and I am sure will continue to do so in the future. It has made the difference to many people on our journey to Scottish independence.

    And I would like to thank everyone in the “wings” family for all the contributions they have made, from all the people who were out their canvassing, to those who just had a conversation with a work mate or family member. You all made the difference, you all helped win for 56 SNP MP’s to represent our country at Westminster.

    As for the (proud Scot “but”), you can forget the “but” now, just remember the ‘proud Scot’ for that is now yourself.

  23. scott says:

    Has anyone else noticed that the British press and media have already started to try and drive a wedge between our First Minister and Alex Salmond,very subtle at the moment but it will get worse in the future.
    We thought Lab in Scotland hates the SNP as the saying goes we aint seen nothinh yet,the bile will be pouring out of them,looking forward to Politics Scotland today.

  24. Big Jock says:

    Dave I think we lost the referendum. Not on argument. I think we lost because the media was 95% pro union. If we are to win Scotland we need to get BBC and the press to take a pro Scottish stance. That vital 10% is all down to a negative biased media.

    They made mountains out of molehills. BBC were in bed with better together. As much as we hate them they do influence the over 65s. We need older people to vote yes and more English people in Scotland. That’s our target group.

  25. Grouse Beater says:

    Malcolm: Max Hastings – racist, elitist, xenophobic prat – but let’s not forget (by his own account) he liberated Port Stanley from the “Argies”.

    He counts himself in, but we can count him out.


  26. Socrates MacSporran says:

    Malcolm @ 12.07.

    You mentioned Max Hastings “liberating” Port Stanley in the Falklands.

    He actually “liberated” the Upland Goose pub, by being the first journalist through the door, so, the other press boys with the Task Force, decided to make a big thing of this – to show him up for the prat he is.

    Unfortunately, back at the Telegraph, where he then worked – they took it seriously and the Liberty Valance Rule has applied ever since.

  27. tactile-vision says:

    I understand why people indulge in tactical voting. Protecting yourself from the greater evil is a very human trait.

    There is, however, a sadness to the process. If you have a cause that you truly believe in, yet you find the need to abandon it, in it’s hour of need, in order to see off another threat, then your true cause loses it’s deposit and eventually fades away. Then, you are not represented, even if you voted for the winning party.

    Sometimes, it is better to stand up and be counted, rather than be a sheep in the biggest fold.

  28. Colin Church says:

    Ian Murray’s core vote. Daily Mail readers, Tories, tactical voters, SNPouters, Britnats, Morningside Cringe. Lovely bunch.

    Is David Maddox going to be his SpAd?

  29. HandandShrimp says:

    I have seen some pouter stuff on Facebook that is borderline deranged and I think it would be fair to say they are not happy.

    That they are happy with a Conservative win just confirms what they were. They are no more in touch with Scottish politics than the Tories in England are. They are a political foot note now.

  30. Cookie says:

    I was manning a polling station in Perth for a couple of hours (council ward for that bit of Perth has 2 SNP and 2 Labour councillors).
    Had two people come up to me and say they normally vote Labour but had been sent the SNPOUP tactical voting advice.
    They both said they were going to vote Labour but the SNPOUT leaflet convinced them they had to vote SNP tactically to keep Tories out.
    Brilliant. Well done SNPOUTers. LOL

  31. carjamtic says:

    What I really find offensive is anything written or presented on MSM/TV by one of our ain,usually under the pseudonym Kirsty Andrews (see what I did there),delivering the same propoganda messages,(except they don’t even use pseudonym’s any more),time for change.

  32. Bob Mack says:

    Tactical voting was always a folly.There was an in built assumption that voters for a previous incumbent would maintain that loyalty.That was wrong. Mundell only survived by the skin of his teeth in a Tory stronghold. Long may these fools put forward their tactical agenda..

  33. Pam McMahon says:

    Just watched the politically-inept Pater Mandelson trying to justify NuLabour on the Andrew Marr fiasco, and blaming the trades union membership for everything that has gone wrong for Labour in this election.

    So, suddenly disparage and dismiss the bodies (he actually made a point of naming Unison and Unite) who are calling for Jim Murphy to go away? The sudden emergence of “Save One Unelected Member of the Labour Party by Another Unelected Member” campaign.

    Best of luck with that one, Peter.

  34. BrianW says:

    I can’t get The Pretenders “Back on the Chain Gang” but with “Back on the Blame Game” out of my head.

    The whole SNPout thing ended up like a voters Mexican Stand Off.. And now the blame game has been in full swing for a few days now.

    The postmortem of May the 7th will continue, and Margrit, Jim, Brian, Tom, Anas (I would go on, but too long a list) will have to read about in the papers.

    All the while not paying a blind bit of notice to any of it, but instead burying their heads in the sand and chanting the mantra SNP BAD.. SNP BAD.. like a red robed Labour anti-trappists.

    But they were silenced on Thursday night as they were ushered from counting halls around Scotland surrounded by security – Voting Wheels falling from the campaign bag they no longer need, but will instead be framed and hung on the wall as a nostalgic reminder of what once was, what could have been. A bit like Creme Brulee in The League of Gentlemen. Another Helping from Labour – No thanks.

  35. Rob James says:

    To use a murphyesque football analogy, the opposition (Unionists) are 53-6 down at have time, yet will undoubtedly employ the same tactics for the second half (Holyrood 2016)

  36. R-type Grunt says:

    Just for the record –

    I don’t care if “Broken Britain” can be fixed by some form of federalism. I might have settled for that a few years ago but not any more. Not after being called a fascist & a Nazi for the last two years by my fellow countrymen/women, never mind the English controlled media.

    Two years ago I’d have taken offence at being labelled a separatist, but not now. The further Scotland can get from these twisted self-serving parasitic dictators the better, for me.

    That’s better.

  37. Rob James says:

    Sorry – Half time.

  38. DerekM says:

    hehe i see they are still going on about polls ,you would think they would be happy they got their Tory government.

    Why is there yellow seats in Wales? it looks like we won 3 seats in Wales and not PC,or is this the new colour of all the vile UK separatist parties according to the Daily pish stain.

  39. Auld Rock says:

    Now that we’ve enjoyed our moment of triumph we are still a democracy and for a democracy to be successful we need an effective opposition. What if anything Thursday has shown us is that Scotland does not like ‘Blairite’ policies. I would also remind Old Labour and Liberals is that back at the turn of the 20th century they both embraced what was then called ‘Home Rule’ which was never going to work as Ireland proved in 1922. What really saddens me is that with so many of our core policies being exactly the same that we have to have three Parties fighting over the same bone.

    However until they shake-off their dependency and love of Westminster and all its faults they will be stuck in their own shite.

    Auld Rock

  40. a2 says:

    Auld rock
    “He’ll need to listen to SNP, Plaid and others as we make-up the greater percentage. A decent PR system would be a first stop.”

    A bit naive surely, he’ll do whatever the f he likes. It’ll be tempered by whatever he thinks will happen next of course, and how he thinks he can stitch up the SNP long term. But with the support of the press and the personal security of having stated he won’t stand for a third term he can take some risks.

    There will be a lot of effort going into appearing fair and reasonable while preparing a poison chalice that can be presented as a great deal for Scotland while making it really difficult to manage so the SNP appears incompetent.

    We will really need our “new generation” (©Jim Murphy) of MPs to have their wits about them.

    The only advantage we have is that he has to deal with the rest of the UK at the same time.

  41. galamcennalath says:

    I did read today somewhere that this is the lowest Tory vote in Scotland for a very long time (ever?). I have my doubt if the BritNat Anglophiles, who constitute the rump of Tory support in Scotland, have abandoned their party in the same way as Lab and Lib.

    Might this be evidence of some tactical voting?

    If so, it made no worthwhile difference in 56 seats!

    The three Unionist who hung on didn’t stay on by much! Has any potential tactical voting analysis been done for say, Edinburgh South?

    It’s easy to stereo type the over 65, MSM reading, BBC watching, Unionist voting block. However, 75% of over 65s voted NO, 25% of young folks voted YES.

    And therein lies something VERY positive. As nature takes its inevitable toll, each year, NO voters will disappear and be replaced by new young Yes voters. Some basic guesstimate arithmetic suggests 1% reduction in NO and 1% addition of YES per annum.

    Assuming all else remains stable, demographics will change Y/N percentages from 45:55 to 55:45 in just 5 years!

    Add to this, education of the whole population (by Wings among others) will surely convert more to the positive case for self determination.

  42. heraldnomore says:

    Sorry, O/T folks, but interesting.

    Stopped in Clarkston yesterday to pick up my copy of the Saturday National, with the sausages for lunch. On returning to car my ears pick up a very recognisable voice – no not that one, the one with the blue rosette – in the middle of a phone conversation. Sure enough there he is, crossing the road, and about to walk between two cars to reach the pavement.

    But as I was about to block the path by opening the driver door of one he detours, perhaps glimpsing the car stickers and the newspaper in hand.

    ‘I don’t think Murdo will make a move right now…’, is all I catch, and of course do not know who may have been on the other end. It may have been something to do with football punditry, but I suspect not.

    Gosh these are interesting times are they not?

  43. a2 says:

    PS Can we use the “new generation” line as Jim did when he was elected Leader of slab. Technically correct and helps with the “once in a generation” moan?

  44. Big Jock says:

    I know an English guy at my office in Edinburgh who reads the Daily Mail. The question is how do you get through to these people. They are the chronically ill informed.

    Its years of brainwashing. He is from the north of England from a working class city. Living in leafy west Edinburgh. Never spoke to him during the referendum as it was a no go area. I wouldn’t know where to start with someone who probably thinks Salmond is a left wing dictator.

    There are pockets of these types all over Scotland. I include JK Rowling who is another one who just doesn’t get Scotland. They must be fuming at 50% of Scotland voting SNP. The Daily Mail will just continue their misinformation.

  45. Charles Edward says:

    Malcolm @12.07

    There is a theory that some of the Falklands conflict’s worst casaualties were the result of devising a smokescreen to deflect Hesletine’s involvement in the Westland Helicopter scandal.
    Thatcher Killing to protect her government’s reputation.

    Have a look at new Tory Defence head boy Michael Gove.
    21st century Reginald Maudling.
    Or Mr. Magoo..
    His NHS style spectacles were the costume adornment chosen to give some credibility to his role as education minister back in 2012.
    With his promotion to defence what next?
    A monocle and sash?
    Personally I’d like to see a single black leather glove on the right hand to mask the symptoms of Diagnostic Apraxia?
    Sarah Vine could stitch a few diamanté into the cuff so as to help explain at dinner parties?

    Gove wasn’t very good at ‘the schools thing,’ how does this make him suited to the ‘look after the nukes thing’?
    That’s the Good old Tories for you.

  46. a2 says:

    “Why is there yellow seats in Wales?”

    That’s light green on my monitor.

  47. K1 says:

    Lol Heraldnomore…1 degree of seperation in Scotland, can literally find oot whit’s a foot by nippin’ oot for the paper…love it! 🙂

  48. FairFerfochen says:

    In Aberdeen we received a SNPoot wheel chart promoted by a local Oil Service Company, one which exploits cheap foreign labour on min wage and 80+ hr shifts.

    IMO these sponsors should not be allowed to interfere in politics.

    On the upside, well done South Aberdeen – Ann Begg No More!

    Just don’t try posting anything even slightly critical of her on her twitter as she will delete, it’s accolades only for AnNF.

  49. biecs says:

    Oh gawd, Blair’s back – and Mandelson (OTOH maybe that’s good news for Scotland)
    I never understood why either of them was in the Labour Party, not a socialist bone in their bodies.

  50. a2 says:

    Gove has the best haircut tho.

  51. caledonia says:

    In todays sun on sunday willie rennie says

    They have learned nothing and they still do not get it

  52. Stoker says:

    galamcennalath wrote:
    “I did read today somewhere that this is the lowest Tory vote in Scotland for a very long time (ever?).”

    If you Google “wings twitter” and click on the top search result it will take you to the Rev’s Twitter and by scrolling down through that you will get confirmation of your statement above.

  53. Big Jock says:

    Herald Murdo as new Tory leader in Scotland?Suppose who really cares says Scotland!

  54. call me dave says:

    @Socrates MacSporran

    “the Liberty Valance Rule” 🙂

    Has the squatter at the labour branch office still got his blinds down yet?

    Surely he must have got fed up just getting the dialing tone noise on the phone from his pals numbers and the BBC HQ.

    Look oot the windie Jim and see which way the wind is blowing!
    Forget 1924 your party is back to 1918…

    Met an SNP door chapper in the cafe this morning sore feet and skint knuckles (the letter box springs you know) but a big happy smile on his physog all the same.

    He says that in a month they’ll be back out working for the next one in 2016. 🙂

  55. carjamtic says:

    Typo : propooganda 😉

  56. Mealer says:

    Call me Dave 1.13
    He could maybe do with a help.

  57. Les Wilson says:

    It really shows how crooked and manipulative this ” Union” is. At least the election was some payback. We need more though.

  58. DerekM says:

    @ a2

    Thanks a2 it must be my old monitor as they look the same colour as the SNP seats in Scotland lol

  59. Dr Jim says:

    English Nationalism has always been with us David Cameron just told the English it was OK to show it now
    and by golly they’re taking advantage of his permission

    When you see the various Armed Forces bands march today the applause is clear until the Pipes and Drums pass and the crowd fall silent and this I think heralds in the total stupidity of Camerons position

    Cameron has backed himself into a ridiculous situation now
    How do you repair this kind of nonsense when you are surrounded on all sides by a hostile press hostile back benchers and now a hostile nation (England) and you made it all happen for a political win

    All this against a backdrop of LABOUR blaming the SNP the LIB DEMS blaming the SNP Nigel flaming Farage blaming the SNP

    Nicola Sturgeon had better check her bed for horses heads every night now

    And they think they’re good at strategy PHEW !!

    Wee Nippy’s got them all beat

  60. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    @ Malcolm

    But let’s not forget (by his own account) he liberated Port Stanley from the “Argies”.

    So he walked the killing fields of Port Stanley.

    Where did I hear that before?

  61. rongorongo says:

    Tactical voting against the SNP, in constituencies where they commanded 50% or more of the vote, would – of course – have been ineffective in any permutation. Since the overall SNP vote share was indeed around 50% this must have quite frequently been the case.

  62. Nation Libre says:

    Not sure if this has been mentioned before but with SNP being blamed for scaring people to vote Tory in England, I think there could also be another factor to consider

    I imagine there is a significant number of traditional Labour voters in England who believe that Labour had moved too far to the right, were more akin to Tories and sought to vote UKIP or Green as their only alternative

    After seeing the possibility of the SNP dragging Labour to the left, where the traditional Labour voters would have been happy with, I would have thought it would have made them more inclined to vote Labour again, for a Lab-SNP deal that surveys suggested they were clearly comfortable with.

    Stupidly, Milliband refusing any deal with the SNP (rather see the Tories in!) I believe may have lost him a few percentage points by returning traditional Labour voters

  63. Algernon Pondlife says:

    I see Blair is advocating the labour party retake the centre ground. A shift to the left then?

  64. Muscleguy says:

    OT my Wings App has stopped putting out notifications of new posts. I’ve tried everything, turning notifications on and off, clearing the cache and eventually I uninstalled and reinstalled it, to no avail. Is anyone else having problems with it?

  65. Democracy Reborn says:

    There is an important cohort of anti-Tory No voters who voted SNP this time. Who may not describe themselves as ‘nationalists’. The kind that we need to nurture and carry if any future Indyref is to be Yes. The kind who take longer than many of us to rationalise that it doesn’t matter if Scotland votes for progressive policies, we still get a Tory government. This election, I think, will be a watershed moment for them.

    The most fatuous argument I’ve heard (from SLAB) in the past few days is that the SNP ‘scared’ potential Labour voters in England into voting Tory/UKIP. That’s essentially saying that the SNP have no right to exist. And if the working class (or ‘hard working families’) in England were truly progressive (remember SLAB saying during the Indyref how much we had in common with them?), why would they ever even consider voting for a right-wing party led by a cabinet of privately-educated millionaires?

    The election result in fact demolishes SLAB’s pisspoor excuse : the ‘working class’ in England were our brothers and sisters to such an extent that they wanted nothing to do with the Scottish hordes.

  66. Sandra says:

    I wish I could ‘like’ comments on here, because I do,(almost) all of them. The most intelligent readers on the Internet, and not just because I agree with them!

  67. call me dave says:


    He is getting all the help I can manage 🙂

    My help is mainly £ and office stuff.

    From 1974 to 2012 I have been active in all local campaigns mainly leafleting at the start, and more latterly but unfortunately the outdoor part is beyond my abilities now. 🙁

    Like dim Jim, my jaickets on a shoogly peg too…but I see it was still hinging there this morning.

    Said a “hello” to my ‘two labour posters are better than one’ neighbour…”Morning Dave” she replied…that was all!

    I mentioned the weather and moved along nothing to see here!

  68. Stoker says:

    @ Muscleguy (1.41pm).

    The boss has had the same problem for several days now.

  69. Alan says:

    Hi Stu,I am receiving emails from wings to an email address claiming the email address is following you on twitter I did not set up a twitter account from that email address the name of the twitter is ‘markaldo2’…I’m now in the process of closing the account

  70. Donald says:

    That’s classic.

    Here, I had a thought. The Tories surely rely on a fair number of voters in England voting against their own interests, and I imagine the press are instrumental in persuading them to do that.

    Obviously the referendum has helped to extinguish trust in the media up here, however the existence of alternative media has been important too.
    After reading about yesterday’s rally in London, and the lies peddled about it in the Daily Mail, I wondered – is it time for a sister page, “Wings Over England”. Might be a struggle to incorporate multiple lions in the logo, but it’s an interesting thought. I don’t really understand English politics, but it seems an interesting thought.

    I’d happily contribute to the crowdfunder 🙂

  71. Big Jock says:

    Labour in Scotland fought this as Indi part 2. They demonized yes voters.Which is 45% of Scotland.

    You cannot win an election with a 73% turnout. When you demonise 45% of 85% who voted yes.

    Simple maths for Murphy. Then again he never passed his exams!

  72. Macart says:

    These ‘people’ (for want of a better word) spend so much effort and time attempting to manipulate perception and create a reality, that they tend to forget reality sometimes bites back.

    The evidence of the outcome on Friday was there for all to see who had been paying attention to politics north and south of the border for the past four years. England’s electorate driven ever rightward by an uncaring government and their barking media outlets and Scotland becoming more socially and politically aware, drifting further leftward.

    England’s electorate have been sold a narrative on Scotland that will not be fixed by Cameron calling off the dogs. The narrative has become ingrained in popular culture thanks to their relentless media machinery.

    The only thing that will waken the public to just how vile Westminster has acted towards all the peoples of these islands is Scotland breaking away and not suffering a catastrophe. If in fact we make reasonable headway economically, within say the first ten years, implement radical political reforms and basically don’t suffer an asteroid hit, the electorate of the the rest of the UK will then have cause to seriously question their political class.

  73. Grizzle McPuss says:

    I have heard rumours that the Scottish Daily Mail have decided to go into map making for Lemming Farmers.

  74. gus1940 says:

    The sum of the majorities of Fluffy, Murray and Help Me Rhona is 4252 which means that The SNP were only short of a Clean Sweep by 4255 votes out of the millions cast.

    It is astonishing that we got 56 out of 59 given that apart from The National, Sunday Herald and a late appearance by The Scottish Sun we had 100% of the broadcast and print media excreting all the old lies, threats and scare stories over us.

    What could be achieved if we had an unbiased media?

  75. Proud Cybernat says:

    I think the ‘Power of the Press’ did play a very significant role–but only in England where they portrayed the SNP as a third Jacobite Rebellion, ‘marauding Jocks’ intent on ruling England. That is how they portrayed the election to the English electorate, particularly in the English marginals.

    The press do have power to influence outcomes and we should not prtend otherwise. I remember here on Wings during the IndyRef the contempt we felt then (and still do) towards the bias of the MSM/BBC in Scotland.

    On the bright side, we can be absolutely certain that GE2020 they will portray the SNP in exactly the same way to scare English voters again. This tactic will be used mercilessly by the Tories from now on to beat Labour in England and if Labour can’t win in England, they can’t ever win in the UK.

    It is a future of Scottish Nationalists v English (Tory) Nationalists where Scotland’s desires will always be thwarted by the English nationalist majority. The argument will have crystalised into its purest and starkest form, highlighting to any sensible person in Scotland that there is only one answer.

    Eventually this WM standoff will lead to IndyRef2 and there will be an overwhelming majority for independence. In the interim the SNP should do two things:

    1) Insert in its 2016 Holyrood manifesto a referendum on Home Rule. It will win this hands down, especially when their 56 MPs lay bare the Tory plans for more austerity cuts.

    2) Insert in its 2016 Holyrood manifesto a referendum on full independence IF the rUK votes to leave the EU and Scotland votes to stay in the EU.

  76. handclapping says:

    You have to admire the Tories for their ruthless promotion of #SNPOut. One of Lynton’s prime targets was the LibDems and promoting tactical voting here was a cool way to unhinge the LibDems from voting for their party by a massive disinformation scam.

    Yes some Tories went with it but they will be back; UKIP has no traction in Scotland so there is nowhere else for a tactical voting Tory to return to except the Tory fold. Whereas the LibDem barnacle once prised off their rock of allegiance is food for any passing SNaPper or SLab crab.

    Tory perfidy reigns above the Highland Line.

  77. Robert Peffers says:

    @Colin Church says: 10 May, 2015 at 12:36 pm:

    “Ian Murray’s core vote. Daily Mail readers, Tories, tactical voters, SNPouters, Britnats, Morningside Cringe. Lovely bunch.”

    Talking about Morningside, Colin, when I was a schoolboy at a school in Leith we had a geography teacher who came from Morningside.

    During one lesson she asked the question, “What are the sea ports in Belgium”? She pointed to a pupil and got an answer but wasn’t pleased so tried again. After a couple more she got rather exasperated, stamped her foot and cried out, “Children! Children! Ostend”. As one the entire class rose to its feet.

  78. desimond says:

    Wee Ruthie for HoL and Scottish Secretary perhaps?

  79. Mikeyboy says:

    @Macart – When Scotland becomes independent and prospers while an unreformed England goes even further down the toilet the message from UKPravda will be “Scotland stole our oil”.

  80. Mealer says:

    Gus1940 2.01
    The majority of Scottish children live in a household with atleast one SNP voter.They won’t be listening to the BBCs “too wee,too poor,too stupid” message.And every day some more of these children become adults and go on the electoral register.Tick tock.

  81. allan thomson says:

    You, through your site, are demonstrating the power of history – no matter how recent. No one else is doing this to the same devastating effect. I very much hope that you grow and expand. Best of luck!

  82. Robert Peffers says:

    @Bob Mack says: 10 May, 2015 at 12:43 pm:

    “Mundell only survived by the skin of his teeth in a Tory stronghold. Long may these fools put forward their tactical agenda..”

    I think that Mundell, if he still sits on the Government front bench, like one of those noddy dogs in a car rear window, will be a great deal more exposed as a total numptie and may wish he had lost his seat.

    He is now going to face a great deal more hard questions than Labour ever asked him.

  83. CameronB Brodie says:

    According to the Guardian newspaper, “Huge numbers of Britons would support an anti-immigration English nationalist party if it was not associated with violence and fascist imagery.” The poll found that 48% would favor the party if only it did not remind them of the bad old days of National Socialism…..

    ….One might posit the following hypothesis. The story of postwar British history is often presented as a narrative of malaise. The empire fell. The industrial economy vanished. Britain ceased to be a major superpower. Everything that made Britain “great” appeared on the wane.

    Under such circumstances, what did the country have? The war. People were united then. Good and evil were obvious. The importance of class diminished. It was truly, as Churchill put it, the country’s “finest hour.” To forget that the great struggle was against fascism and to invite that ideology in with open arms is unthinkable, even though most Britons know only the nostalgic memory of the war.

    Nationalist parties across Britain must contend with this reality. During the Watch Group incident in Scotland during the early 1990s when two small groups campaigned against English “white settlers,” at least one media outlet equated Settler Watch with the Nazis. The Scottish National Party, which did not support the Watch Groups, responded by announcing that it was not a fascist party and was in no way similar to Hitler’s NSDAP. To anybody paying attention, this was obvious. The catch is that much of the success or failure of nationalist groups is tied to perception, memory, and nostalgia.

  84. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Archie McPherson was interviewed on R4’s The World This Weekend, approx. 1.50, sticking it to the ‘ScotNats’ big-time.

    Worth a listen when it turns up on I-player.


  85. Kenzie says:

    ““Children! Children! Ostend”. As one the entire class rose to its feet.”

    There was a young teacher named Wood
    Who spoke as politely as she could.
    When her class asked her where,
    She had spent Glasgow Fair
    She said briskly “Ostend”, and they stood.

  86. heedtracker says:

    If in fact we make reasonable headway economically, within say the first ten years, implement radical political reforms and basically don’t suffer an asteroid hit, the electorate of the the rest of the UK will then have cause to seriously question their political class.

    Not if when, good buddie:D

  87. Aceldo Atthis says:

    Interesting to hear Tory David Davis on Andrew Marr suggest that Cameron is going to call the bluff of the SNP by offering FFA. He also went on to spell out that this would amount to autonomy over income tax and spending which as he defined it currently amounted to us raising 3% less in tax per capita than the rest of the UK, whilst at the same time spending 15% more per head.

    He, of course, didn’t include corporation tax which includes oil etc in his calculations and Marr might have pointed that out.

    This is where the debate is likely to go and they know it will lead to a fight with SNP.

    Time to focus on what matters, then.

    1) We need full fiscal powers over corporation tax raising, VAT, and everything else.

    2) We also need access to borrowing on the international markets, as any government would.

    FFA that does not include the above would be tantamount to being in chains, fiscally speaking, and there isn’t a viable country in history that did not have these levers.

    My guess is that the debate will lead to another referendum which will put all this to the Scottish people. Even those who are against full independence would understand that without the powers outlined above Scotland would be totally hamstrung and suffer massively in terms of funding.

    Bring it on.

  88. scott says:

    Lordy Mcconnel says Murphy and Dezi must stay,does he not want Spud to join him on the Lords gravy train,sneaky barstewards these Slab people.

  89. bookie from hell says:

    Lord Jack McConnell

    ditch smith commission


  90. Kenny says:

    I’m convinced the whole “tactical voting” thing was a Tory ploy anyway, to get more Tory votes, the sort of thing they would do to the hapless Red Pawns… It seems to be coordinated by one deranged Englishwoman on Twitter who probably has multiple accounts and spends the whole day writing to herself.

    Just watched Wee Nicola on Andrew Marr, 110 thousand members now, great news! I agree with her that I think the SNP will be the main opposition party (de facto) with Labour first in disarray and then probably moving right to become an official Tory Lite Party. The SNP will be the beacon around which all genuine left-wing and progressive people will gather.

    How I wish the English Left could throw off their “Guardian chains” and realise they have to do it all themselves. Forget about “occupying Downing Street” — you need to occupy the empty public halls, pubs, church halls and cafes. Do a google search for “Robin McAlpine”, that is the way to go, not Russell Brand…

  91. Doug McG says:

    I heard most of the Archie MacHairdo interview earlier and the man has a real pathological hate of SNP and all its works , that he was a stalwart of BBC Scotland is no surprise whatever.

    Now that we have a virtually Union free zone , do we really have to put up with the same old biased shit that we know and hate. The media should reflect the new circumstances , BBC Scotland and Radio Scotland take note.

  92. Brian Powell says:


    Did McConnell give any reason why Murphy/Dugdale should stay after losing all but one of the Lab Mps?

  93. call me dave says:

    We have to give WM a try with our 56, play a straight bat, keep the Scot’s informed about how our opposition is/ or is not making progress. Voters are not daft.

    The tories will offer us some beads and trinkets soon and there will be faux outrage when (I hope) we turn it down. The real fight will come soon enough until then we do what we can do.

    We have to prove to all voters in Scotland that the WM system does not work for them.

    The other thing is our MP’s must be scrupulously clean, (hark at me..geez!) but Sturgeon and Robertson etal must run a tight ship.

    Along the lines of “There will be no bevvying” etc etc.

  94. Valerie says:

    When the tactical voting crowd appeared, I was absolutely disgusted at the dishonesty and desparation of such a tactic.

    So my message to the Daily Mail -GIRFUY. For any paper to promote this activity, is, in my opinion, morally bankrupt. To make such a mockery of democracy that people have fought for, is contemptible.

    A paper like that has no barrel it will not scrape.

  95. handclapping says:

    I know its trampling on Stu’s political guts but I wonder if the LibDems will survive this time. I can remember when they were 5, 3 Welsh 2 twin towns and Jo Grimmond and then one of the Welsh died and the Cardigan seat was won by Lady Megan Lloyd George, … for Labour! Shame and Scandal in the Family!

    But they rallied and David Steel caught the falling knife of the Social Democrats which boosted their numbers enough to make people think they might be an alternative to lavender pink Toryism. Then Clegg coalitioned and signed their death warrant; the Blair-like lust for power acting like the male spiders desire for progeny making him a meal for his larger “partner”.

    There should be a place for a party of MPs and others with a libertarian view of man’s place in society but in this age of machine politics I don’t know what or where it is.

  96. Robert Peffers says:

    Just watching Dateline London and I’ve never heard such sheer bloody ignorance coming out of so many adult mouths for years. I know the daft woman’s face but can’t put a name to it. Daft bitch is on about Scotland’s whole economy based upon just one commodity and blood and soil nationalism.

    As a foreign correspondent the last place her boss needs her to be is in The UK. Her ignorance is absolute and unshakeable. Doesn’t the idiot understand Scotland gets none of the oil & gas revenues?

    Does she actually know what blood & soil nationalism is? Mind you she’ll have a stack of Brownie points with the Englanders and the BBC.

  97. Dr Jim says:

    If you were listening to Jack McConnell closely you also would have heard him say “If a party like the SNP had been standing in England they would have swept the boards”

    I think that says it all

  98. Socrates MacSporran says:

    Back in the late 1980s/early 1990s, as newspapers switched from reporters telephoning in their reports to copy takers – who typed-up the report then sent it on to the various desks – to reporters filing copy via lap tops, the Sunday Times had the bright idea of hiring Archie McWoof to do match reports.

    Some of us were helpless, when, on his first assignment for the ST, at Rugby Park; Archie typed-out his report onto his lap top, then picked up a telephone and dictated it to a copy taker.

    Not the brightest is oor Erchie.

  99. Tackety Beets says:

    Aye Mealer , the next generation is awake.

    My oldest off spring and partners all voted Yes and now SNP

    My youngest,12 y o , whose mum is a Yesser but generally Green , was tested last week .

    She was on the lounge PC @ yon bloody Minecraft whilst I watched a political show .

    ” Ach t heck , a think al just vote Green e morn” I retorted
    ” Dad ! Don’t you dare , vote SNP ! ” was shouted across the room from my youngest , maybe Minecraft has some benefits .

  100. Paul says:

    @Brian Powell

    McConnell said that they need to have “a conversation” and “to listen”… same old Red Tory mantra.

    One interesting point he raised was, “If a party like the SNP had run in England last week they would have swept the board there too.”

  101. Louis B Argyll says:

    The mistrust of BBC Scotland must be confronted by the new Scottish Parliamentarians in the first instance.

    Any demonstration or public event should not take place at P Quay, too aggressive, play it cool.

    Lay it with the regulator, N.U.J., Hollyrood, Scottish Office,


  102. Aceldo Atthis says:

    @Dough McG

    I assume you mean Archie McPherson?

    Based on what I have heard about the Labour leadership debate, it sounds like they have thrown in the towel in Scotland. At the very least, it isn’t a priority — Middle England and the centre ground, as defined by the Neo-Fascist media down south, are the priorities. We can expect Labour to lurch even further to the right then and if they do I can’t see them spending a penny up here to bang their heads against walls.

    On that basis, they have little need for their mouthpieces in the Scottish media. Most of the big wigs in BBC Scotland are affiliated to Scottish Labour but, since they aren’t needed any more, I expect they will fall quite easily. I hope the SNP make a priority of addressing this issue.

    In terms of the rest of the Scottish media outside of the BBC, they’re going to look rather stupid and see a fall in readership if they continue with their anti-SNP editorial stance.

  103. GusI says:

    If there was tactical voting then there is no evidence of it here in Angus where the tories came second in 2010 with 30.92% of the vote and second again in 2015 with 29%. The SNP went from 39% to 54%.

  104. call me dave says:

    How the WM oyster produces a pearl, a wee bit of grit!

    ‘Scot goes pop’ worth a glance.

    Dons doing well 2nd Half soon.

  105. jcd says:

    Doug McG said :

    “Now that we have a virtually Union free zone , do we really have to put up with the same old biased shit that we know and hate. The media should reflect the new circumstances , BBC Scotland and Radio Scotland take note.”

    Apart from a few modifications put in here and there to prevent them looking totally ludicrous and also so that they can claim “balance”, it so far at least looks like the UK and Scottish msm intend to basically carry on regardless. What do you think they’re there for, to reflect genuine democracy or something?

    I read and hear that representatives of the three tory parties and their media pals are sitting around in studios talking about things in such a way that the SNP landslide didn’t really happen or that the stupid electorate got it wrong or something.

    Spit on their papers at the supermarket stands and REFUSE to watch any bbc/msm so-called news programmes or any other propaganda unless you’re someone like the Rev who for the sake of professional interest must sometimes descend into the msm sewer.

    NOW might be the time to start planning and organizing MASSIVE demos at both bbc and stv.

  106. Kenny says:

    Re Secretary of State for Scotland, I believe Fluffy has already said he’s not up to the roll. But who else can they get? An unelected lord will be torn to shreds by the SNP. Maybe Nicola will press for the abolishment of this complete waste of everyone’s time and money?

    On a similar theme, now that Carbuncle no longer has a party in government to protect him, wonder if the Tories will drop him in the doodoo as a sop to Salmond? That’s the sort of thing they do.

  107. frogesque says:



    Shyte at footie.
    Ditto Rugby
    No better at Cricket.

    Bloody fantastic at elections!

    To see the 56 (-2 who were on islands and couldn’t make it) posing with Nicola beside the strength and grace of the Forth Bridge is too beautiful for words.

    Scotland’s answer to austerity!

    Compare it with the headless, ugly and utterly ineffective anti austerity demos in London and elsewhere.

    Roll on Holyrood 2016!

  108. Mealer says:

    Archie McArmageddon.He’s yesterday’s man.Im not sure about his hairdo,though.Could be from an entirely different era.Or,indeed,universe.

  109. Mosstrooper says:

    Heard Archie MacPherson raving on about “a party hiding behind a flag” ( who could he mean?) and then trying to explain how the voting public had been fooled and that Labour would be back with new ideas.

    Here’s a wee story (true) a polling station in Paisley and Renfrewshire North was being manned for the SNP by a 16 year old young man. An elderly voter approached the station and was collared by a Labour Councillor who told the voter that the SNP would cut the OAP pension. Enter our youthful guardian of the gate who stepped forward and explained the facts.
    Result? the elderly voter turned to the Labour Councillor , pointed her finger and shouted “you’re a LIAR”

    How do we think that will go down with her friends and family?

    And THAT is the reason you got your arse whipped MR MacPherson.

  110. Ken MacColl says:

    Find it difficult to understand why the BBC Politics Show should go to Sir Malcolm Rifkind for a commentary on the General Election result.
    Did they agree cash terms before the interview as it is well known from recent evidence that Sir Malcolm is struggling with a seriously depressed income level?

    Surely his opinion on any topic is dubious at best.

  111. tactile-vision says:

    Donald says:

    10 May, 2015 at 1:52 pm

    That’s classic.

    “Here, I had a thought. The Tories surely rely on a fair number of voters in England voting against their own interests, and I imagine the press are instrumental in persuading them to do that.”

    If you read the BTL comments on most media articles you will find that many commentators can’t string a sentence together, but still support the Tory/UKIP agenda. The “Great Unwashed” are easily fooled.

    Now, I am aware that criticising spelling and grammatical errors is frowned upon, please let me qualify my own position.

    I ain’t no PhD.

    I ain’t got a degree.

    I ain’t no critical thinker.

    I do, however, know when I’m being sold a dead parrot.

    So, for the life of me, I can’t understand how so many people can be easily fooled by the press. Perhaps it’s because many never read beyond the headline and the first few paragraphs. Why? You would never buy a series of books and only read the first chapter of each.

    Living on my own (nobody loves me!) and having no set routine I often find myself awake at ungodly hours of the morning, so, I often go online then where I find “breaking news” reporting growing anger over whatever story they are pushing on behalf of Westminster. I find myself wondering “who are these sleepless angry bastirts commenting at 2:30am”? I have asked that question online(without the bastirts).

    That is why I have been banned from commenting on the BBC News website for the past two years.

    Intelligent thought is easily “moderated” out. What remains is the Neo-Liberal message.

  112. haud on the noo says:

    Brian – he likes a laugh..

  113. scottieDog says:

    @Robert peffers
    That belief about the Scottish economy is pretty widely held down there. When you ask what the English economy is based on you either get the blank stare or the ‘city of london powerhouse’ line.

    I always reply to the latter line asking exactly what that means. Then I get the blank stare.

    The height of volatility is an economy based on accounting entries and bets taken on accounting entries and the price of commodities – all underwritten by…
    You guess it… the tax payer.

  114. Doug Daniel says:

    Tactical voting has been going on for years, and this is what the Pouters never understood. Thursday was the first time many SNP-inclined voters had a chance to vote SNP without it being a wasted vote. That’s how we managed to go from fourth to first in several seats. Aberdeen South, for example, didn’t really only have 10% support for the SNP in 2010; but if you wanted your vote to count, it was either Labour or Lib Dems.

    That huge swathe of folk finally voting for the party they wanted – along with all the new SNP voters – meant the Pouters didn’t stand a chance.

  115. Kevin Evans says:

    Watching Sky news and they have in the bottom right corner a graphic listing the seats won. From left to right it has “Tory 330, labour 232, lib dem 8, UKIP 1, SNP 56, others 23”

    They just canna bring themselves to put SNP in 3rd where they should be.

    So the UK establishment are already trying to relegate SNP to 5th. Of course they’ll justify it as votes cast not seats won and shout about PR knowing PR would wipe out Tory and labour votes so it won’t be implemented.

  116. Tackety Beets says:

    @ Robert Peffers

    Was it yon Janet Dailey from Sun Te lie graph ?

    She ay gets ma goat , nae maetter fit she says !

  117. Marcia says:

    If there was massive tactical voting against the SNP, it was dwarfed by the tactical voting for the SNP.

  118. Clootie says:

    From Rifkind to McConnel and all the “has beens” inbetween, we have heard drivel all day about holding back Smith and reviewing the full scope of devolved powers via Royal Commissions and other variations on the famous “Kick this into the long grass”.

    Smith is not enough but we must ensure this is pushed through NOW. If we listen to these devious b*******s we will get tied up in debate. Whitehall civil servants are the Worlds experts and talking and doing nothing.

    “…ensure you put difficult issues into a committee/commission. They spend YEARS taking Minutes!”

  119. Edward says:


    Re SOS for Scotland

    I’ve a feeling that the post may be scrapped

    If Cameron is actually thinking of Federalism, then its another reason for not having the Scottish office

    Scottish Office and SOS for Scotland may be part of impending negotiation ‘chips’ on the poker table

  120. JBS says:

    There is something genuinely disturbing about the parochialism of the Pouters. Effie Deans welcomes the Tory majority at Westminster because she reckons it effectively neuters the SNP bloc. The thought that the coming Tory cuts will cause misery and suffering, not only in Scotland, but throughout the UK, doesn’t enter her head. Just as long as there are no ructions in her own wee world, she’s happy.

    Effie has written that she’s an academic who works at the University of Aberdeen. I have to say that if she hadn’t volunteered that information I would never have suspected anything of the sort.

    I’m not at all certain that the SNP MPs will be quite as ineffectual as Effie Deans expects…

  121. Tam Jardine says:

    I worry for poor Duncan H during these dark days for Scottish Labour. He is taking great solace in pointing out that the SNP received less than 50% of the popular vote.

    The figure is actually 49.97% according to Duncan, seemingly oblivious to the idea that his figure is in itself rounded down to 2 decimal places.

    Perhaps it is keeping him going. I have to say that Duncan and his team in Edinburgh South did well to stem the tide – they seemed to have a far more visible campaign than anything I saw in Edinburgh North and Leith by labour. Online presence seemed much stronger – I wouldn’t be surprised if the activist base was much broader as well.

    Of course the smear campaign against Neil Hay must have had some effect.

    One thing that baffles me about Ian Murray – years have passed and that door still hasn’t been repainted. Surely out of the 19293 folk who voted for him there is a decent painter and decorator who can give him a wee deal and restore that green door to its former glory?

  122. fred blogger says:

    haha spot on, we don’t tell them anything do we?

  123. The Earthshaker says:

    Off topic, I don’t mean to offend but I’m fed up of reading Wings and the comments about Wales when people are so ill informed to the situation down here, so I thought I’d post a few facts/points to note when thinking about Wales and the political situation.


    About 25% of the Welsh population was born elsewhere in the UK, that’s 500,000 people mainly English who now live in Wales and have a disproportionate influence on elections.

    Why, they are mainly retired (over 60) who vote and are staunch unionists top up the existing Tory and now UKIP vote, but that doesn’t explain all the Tory/kipper vote. Wales has a lot of what the pollster call the ‘economically left behinds’ particularly in Labour areas where they have done sweet FA for people for decades and they’ve turned to UKIP because Plaid Cymru either wont talk about immigration or welcome immigration.

    Media in Wales

    The media is another issues BBC still dominate and the welsh print press is one Trinity Mirror rag called the Western Mail and there are no Welsh editions of the Sun, Mirror, Daily Mail, Times either it’s all UK focussed, to the point where almost 40% of voters in a recent poll thought that health was still controlled by the UK Government when it’s been devolved for 15 years.

    Yes there are well read nationalist blogs but nothing compares to the reach or influence of Wings, Bella Caledonia, Common Space or the National to give the other side and as Wales is poorer it’s even more difficult to raise money for project, but that’s not an excuse.

    Plaid Cymru & the Greens

    Plaid Cymru (PC) has a lot of baggage mainly around the welsh language that on 20% of the population speak, they tend to live in the seats PC win, but the largest population base in south east Wales where the population are overwhelmingly English speaking and Labour down here uses that to divide the vote.

    Despite Plaid Cymru leader Leanne Wood fining favour in Scotland, England and Ireland during the campaign, she’s not a leader and was put in the shade by Nicola Sturgeon both times in the debates, she also doesn’t appeal to much of the welsh electorate who aren’t as hardcore socialist/borderline communist as Leanne and her team. Add those two factors Together and you perhaps might see why Plaid struggle

    The Greens aren’t a separate party in Wales and the women who leads the Green branch is a patronising Joanne Lumley type whose on tape mocking welsh people and accent and she refused to work with Leanne and Plaid Cymru despite anti austerity alliance during the election.

    Labour in Wales

    ‘Welsh’ Labour is a toxic as its Scottish branch but the opposition down here is weak and divided and with in built Labour majorities in most valleys constituencies the sheeple as I call them keep handing Labour victory after victory.

    I don’t know if anything will change and I wish you all the best, but just bare in mind when you next mock us here in Wales that we really are up against it for all sorts of historical and cultural reasons that some of us are trying our best to over turn.

  124. Robert Louis says:

    Had a wander through some of the wealthiest parts of Iain Murray’s constituency a week before the election. There were Labour posters in the windows of houses that sell for anything in excess of 1-2 million pounds, the grandest of the grand mansions.

    Make no mistake, Murray depends upon Tory votes for his career. Red Tories indeed.

  125. Helena Brown says:

    Charles Edward, I thought Michael Gove was now Justice Secretary, working or not with Theresa May, who apparently loathes him. I thought it curious that a supposed Scotsman was English Justice Sec.

  126. liz says:

    Re broadcasting in Scotland, I think the SNP will push for that and a tory gov is more likely to give it to us because Cons are a lost cause and BBC Scotland is pro Lab.

    Even though we have 56 MPs vsv 600, we will be in 3rd place therefore access to all the committees and chairing some, this puts us in a powerful position.

    Also Faisal Islam said that he didn’t think Lab would go for an independent party as they would lose out big time on ‘short money’ as to gain access to that need at least 2 MPs

  127. Robert Louis says:

    Clootie at 357pm,

    I agree with you, Westminster are the world experts at putting things into committees which then take five years to report. The SNP should not tolerate ANY obfuscation of any kind. Powers either given NOW, or not at all – as we all know, it requires no debate, merely a signature from the PM.

    We in Scotland, have NO need for another Calman p*ss take.

    The SNP need to go in hard and fast, no messing, no delays.

  128. crazycat says:

    @ rongorongo at 1.33

    There were 32 seats (including all the Glasgow ones) where the SNP got more than 50% and several others where they came so close that any tactical voting would have had to be organized with extraordinary precision and trust. Just wasn’t going to happen.

  129. crazycat says:

    @ Helena Brown

    Not only is it odd to make Gove work with someone who detests him, in charge of English justice when he is originally Scottish, but he is now the second person in a row to hold that post who is not a lawyer.

    The legal profession made enough fuss when Grayling was appointed; I don’t think they are going to take too kindly to Gove. So it does seem a strange choice all round; there must be a lot of scores to settle!

  130. heedtracker says:

    Tactical voting has been going on for years, and this is what the Pouters never understood.

    I voted Anne Begg and then stopped after their Gulf war. I voted Nicol Steven once tactically probably, sorry LORD Nicol Steven. Christ that chump showed himself up to be another sock puppet of the union on BBC vote SLab forever Scotland election special.

    Voters of Scotland were not voting tactically.

    SNP won by a landslide but this landslide was in effect the YES vote for Scottish independence that would have been Sept 18 2014, without Project Fear UKOk, SLabour, STV, BBC style lies and fury.

    Never forget. Never forgive.


    See what I did there #SNPout?

  131. Kevin Evans says:

    Watching Iplayer and jack maconnell. He’s an awful man.

  132. CameronB Brodie says:

    You lucky bastard. 🙂

  133. Big Jock says:

    Tories got 15% and are still our government, in Scotland! I think we don’t need to use flowery polemics, to explain the problem with democracy in the UK.

  134. Kevin Evans says:

    The anti Scottish rhetoric the Tories and press in England pushed for the Tories to win the GE will not now or ever go back in the box in England. I agree with massie that England has ended the union not Scotland.

  135. Big Jock says:

    Crazycat. I like the way you say formely Scottish. It’s like the artist formerly known as. Made me laugh.

    Tories change their nationality when they go to London!

  136. John O says:

    Just been reading Kevin Mackenna’s piece and it was an interesting read, but while reading the posts below it seems the slab lot are still delusional.

    They believe if the SNP had not stated that they were willing to work with UK lab, then they would have got the vote in England they still won’t take responsibility for what they have done to themselves.

    England went to the right I even seen one x coal miner on TV declaring he voted Tory because he did not trust labour, my god what.

    The slab need to clean out all the careerist, at local council, Scottish parliament level they are doing nothing but hampering our children’s future.

  137. Robert Peffers says:

    @Brian Powell says: 10 May, 2015 at 3:00 pm:

    “Did McConnell give any reason why Murphy/Dugdale should stay after losing all but one of the Lab Mps”

    Well, yes & no, This is, “Baron Jack Wilson McConnell, of Glenscorrodale” , we are talking about here. Not your common 5/8, or as my old, late departed friend, use to say about him, “gies a match, McConnell’s oot again”, The Baron says lots and lots of words – but it’s making sense of them I have trouble with. So I’m not sure just what he said. I just usually take is as read that it was a load of nonsense, meaningless words.

    Talking about Lords – is it not Westminster protocol that former First Ministers are offered a Baronetcy? So where’s oor Eck’s? They might at least have made the offer to give him the pleasure of turning it down or taking his £300 quid a day and giving it to a food bank.

  138. Dal Riata says:

    Don’t know about the rest of you but I’m fair knackered marching up and down while waving my Union Jack flag!

    You’ve got to hand it to the BBC, the British Establishment’s favourite channel, they certainly know how to put on these hours-long pomp-and-ceremony empirical-fanfares-to-warmongering circuses for the masses better than anyone. And the, mostly, English audiences just lap it up.

    Of course, the BBC have had years of practice to make perfect.

    (The above does not take away my profound respect for those who died serving their country/countries)

  139. msean says:

    Just seen a Labour MP on telly saying basically that Labour lost MPs in “our” Scottish cities. Meaning of course,Labours cities, I think. I thought they were Scotlands cities,belonging to Scotland and her people.

  140. John O says:

    @Kevin Evans
    10 May, 2015 at 4:27 pm

    Yep seen wee lord Jack MacConnell on BBC today and his voice was quivering like a leaf in the wind, he has no clue what to say or do.

  141. Stoker says:

    Apologies if this has already been posted.

    “SNP wins election in Gorleston-on-sea” (England)

  142. CameronB Brodie says:

    Robert Louis says:
    Had a wander through some of the wealthiest parts of Iain Murray’s constituency a week before the election. There were Labour posters in the windows of houses that sell for anything in excess of 1-2 million pounds, the grandest of the grand mansions.

    Make no mistake, Murray depends upon Tory votes for his career. Red Tories indeed.

    I did a bit of canvasing in Edinburgh South, pre-indyref. I can confirm that many of the Labour supporters there, are outwardly comparatively wealthy. They were obviously people with aspirations, had worked hard or had had lucky breaks. They did not want to see all they had, destroyed by some fascistic nationalist project. They also tended to support Trident and ‘liberal intervention’, and weren’t too keen on immigration. They had bought into the New Labour koolaid 100% and could quite accurately have been described as Red Tories.

  143. Dal Riata says:

    Archie McPherson? A man who used to commentate on football matches for BBC Scotland? That guy?

    And he is invited on to BBC’s (surprise, surprise) Radio 4 as some kind of authoritative voice regarding Scotland and its politics, who then goes on to rubbish the SNP and its voters….?


  144. Graeme says:

    I really don’t consider this election a complete success not one Labour candidate in Scotland lost their deposit

    What’s all that about

    must do better the next time

  145. Mealer says:

    Can anyone provide official figures on the vote split for Shetland?(as opposed to Orkney and Shetland)

  146. heedtracker says:

    Archie McPherson? A man who used to commentate on football matches for BBC Scotland? That guy?

    I heard Archie on #BBCout r4 lunchtime too. Having shouted at him up in his scaffolding tv tower at Pittodrie back in the day, its great to hear the Rangers biased old git in such fine fettle at 79!

    Archie’s a politician now though, so he thinks he can fart out stuff like “when heavy industry disappeared from the Clyde” and he’ll get away with it.

    Scottish industry did not “disappear” from Scotland. All of it was shut down by exact same red and blue tory boys that thought they were all right UKOK jack, for ever and ever, so fcuk Scotland.

    Took quite a long time but now they’re gone, sorry “disappeared”.

  147. bugsbunny says:

    “Hurrah for the Yellowshirts”, sticks in the craw of the Daily Mail as 56 Social Democratic MP’s travel to Westminster, however “Hurrah for the Blackshirts” doesn’t?

    The Rothermere’s and their Fascist and later Nazi sympathies should be brought up to any Daily Mail reader you know and rubbed into their bigoted faces. However it probably won’t work as they are too far down the dark path to save. It’s not a nice place to be.


  148. bugsbunny says:


    Apparently Shetland voted SNP, but Orkney voted Liberal. I’m trying to find the figures and the reason why?

  149. ClanDonald says:

    Love the idea of Tory voters in Dumfries and Galloway following the Daily Mail’s advice and voting Labour, only to discover that they came in 3rd enabling the SNP’s new MP Richard Arkless to beat the tories into 2nd place :).

  150. Charles Edward says:

    Helena Brown, my bad.
    Not the first time I’ve been misinformed.

    Don’t know anything funny to say about that..
    I wonder which catagory Theresa falls into..
    ‘hotties or harridens’ (Ms Vine)

    Sorry, carrying a joke beyond the limits of pleasantry.

  151. muttley79 says:

    I see that some elements of the MSM appear to be want to settle some old scores with Salmond after the general election victory. Expect them to try and downgrade Salmond`s immense contribution to the SNP. Even Iain Macwhirter is at it. Apparently the SNP was not social democratic before Nicola Sturgeon took over, and Eck was not likeable and he is a male. Sturgeon has done very well but Salmond set things up for her on a plate. Lets not allow the MSM to rewrite history.

  152. Mealer says:

    Bugsbunny 5.19
    Aye,difficult to find anything on the net resembling an official figure for Shetland and Orkney separately.Detail is still sketchy in other areas of interest too,such as how many deposits were lost etc.

  153. Edward says:

    Just looking at a couple of pictures taken at todays VE event in London
    Showing Nicola talking to Boris Johnson and another talking to Michael Fallon

    In any good negotiation’s, it helps to start with introductions 🙂

    Ignore the actual ill informed article in the Mail, just focus in on the pictures complete with body language

  154. call me dave says:

    Human rights- not devolved? Link from the peat worrier to this.

  155. Edward says:

    Its interesting that Jack McConnell is bending to the winds of change with vague nod to a Federal system
    saying that the Smith commission was rubbish and that Cameron should recognise that its not one nation but multi national

    Ok, I don’t think McConnell is that influential , but if more Labour and Tory’s start leaning with the winds of change, we could be in for interesting times

  156. Joemcg says:

    So in effect our fellow no voting scots have lumbered us with another 5 years of Tory rule. Sorry for bring blunt but what a shower of utter shitebags.

  157. call me dave says:

    Another epistle from the telegraph.

  158. Mealer says:

    joemcg 5.46,
    I think it’s important to remember the lies,bullying and fear those often elderly No voters were subjected to by all the apparatus of the British state,including the Labour Party.

  159. thomaspotter2014 says:

    O/T Sorry.

    But I need to get this off my chest.

    Ruth Davidson has shown in the last wee while that she is not the nice straight talking other that she makes out to be,far from it.

    The tweet of voter intimidation scam that was plastered all over the MSM in minutes is as cynical and demonising as it gets.

    So I won’t be joining her fan club anytime soon.

    The fact that WM tories think highly of this scumbag says enough to me already.She should be pulled on this at any and every opportunity to explain why she declared this lie.And not allowed to fob us off.

    And while I’m at the gripe-when is fat Fozzy going to get questioned on the Nicola Frenchgate fiasco when he was 100% behind that stitchup?

    Rant over .

  160. Joemcg says:

    Mealer-aye I suppose you are right. Just don’t think I can ever forgive or forget.

  161. Stoker says:

    @ Edward (5.38pm).
    “Ignore the actual ill informed article in the Mail, just focus in on the pictures..”
    (direct link to Unionist rag removed)

    Are you for real?
    Here’s a better one for you, i think most of us will just completely ignore your plea for us to click on your direct link to the ‘Hatemail’ as we are not in the business of helping those Unionist scumbags achieve their advertising revenue targets.

    But then again i suspect you are already aware of that.
    Try archiving, it’s a simple and wonderful invention.

  162. frogesque says:

    Graeme says:
    10 May, 2015 at 5:06 pm
    I really don’t consider this election a complete success not one Labour candidate in Scotland lost their deposit

    What’s all that about

    must do better the next time

    Bugger! I bet 50p with sig other they would loose 3 lol

  163. Mealer says:

    joemcg 6.01
    It might be hard to forgive and forget but after a few years more of Tory austerity it might not be so difficult to persuade.

  164. bugsbunny says:

    Joemcg: I agree. You get a pile of shitebags from a shower of arseholes. For very short term benefits, (even if it’s in their own heads, the NO majority OAP’s,not them all, but the majority, stabbed us all in their back).

    Postal votes should be abolished and all people that can’t attend should be given proxy votes and people with the same party allegiance, say an official party member, should be given the right to vote for more than one person, so SNP party member votes SNP for SNP supporter, ect, and the same for all other parties. So even the bedridden can vote.

    Postal votes can be tampered with.


  165. CameronB Brodie says:

    My problem with, is that I’m boycotting Israel. Though it won’t provide an archieve (does everything need archiving?), you could always use tinyurl. I’m not sure though, if that still generates click revenue if you refrain from clicking on the article?

  166. Jamie Arriere says:

    One way I hope the SNP56 can start shaking things up in Westminster is not to play along with the archaic pairing system for MPs – where an MP arranges with a member on the opposite benches not to attend on votes where his opposite member is absent.

    There has been very little said on this, but I wonder if some occasions where MPs have received pelters for not voting on certain debates, were because their opposite number (who we never know) was at his daughter’s graduation, attending a funeral, or some other unrelated event.

    While I have sympathy for this arrangement on non-important debates where policies are not likely to be changed or implemented on the basis of the vote, it’s still vital that SNP MPs have the freedom to vote on whatever debate they want to, especially with regard to votes which affect Scotland, or involve the imposition of austerity.

    This will end, or rather will prevent, a cosy comfortable atmosphere developing – and possibly may endanger the Tory majority if they’re not careful.

    It may not be cricket, but who likes cricket?

  167. Big Jock says:

    Correct Yes voters have every right to blame no voters for the Tories. Whatever way you cut it. Being part of the UK means we have to put up with right wing England’s messy choices for decades at a time.

    There must come a point where no voters realise that they cannot alter the UK government!

    I was reading about Quebec. They lost the first referendum in 1980 40/60.

    They then had to wait until 1995 to lose again by 1%! Now the national party is in a mess. So this idea that you wait 10 to 15 years between referendums is wrong. I think you need to work with energy and momentum and don’t lose speed.

    Being in Westminster too long is not good for the SNP. They need to stick to their task and get another referendum. There needs to be a referendum commitment in the 2016 manifesto. Anything less is playing a dangerously long game of brinkmanship.

    If FFA is offered by Cameron the SNP need to grasp it. If we can get economically independent then we might not need to convince people of the merits.

    Hosie this morning advised it would take 2-3 years to get FFA. This he said was due to legistlation moving like treacle. It needn’t be that way if the process is ratified by Cameron straight away.

  168. Edward says:


    I will be kind to you and say that I actually forgot to use
    Will remember the next time

    Perhaps you will be more diplomatic the next time an error is made 😉

    PS Im no fan of the daily heil

  169. Graham MacLure says:

    Just a passing thought.How many Scottish seats will Labour be able to contest in the next UK General Election assuming that there will still be a UK?

  170. bugsbunny says:

    Off topic, I know, but a bit of light relief.

    I have just received an email from a UK based diet and exercise site telling me, a male, and I kid you not, to “Tone up my TOSH for Summer”.

    WTF? It’s bad enough with creeping Anglo-isms, but this?

    KFC Drive THRU, TV PROGRAMS, I’ve even seen people write into newspapers and spell colour as COLOR, and tonight as TONITE.

    I don’t know whether to laugh or cry to find out, I now have a tush. I better watch I don’t slip on a banana skin and land on my “fanny”.

    Bloody hell, enough with creeping Americanisms.


  171. Democracy Reborn says:

    Paul Hutcheon, Sunday Herald, quoting a “top Scottish Labour MSP” on Murphy:

    “It’s absurd he’s even considering staying. He’s about as popular as herpes.”

  172. Gary45% says:

    We watched the election results on the I player last night,
    just to see Jakey Burds face explode with visceral hatred and bile, at the most amazing night in politics.
    We skipped through some of it, as it seemed to be subject to the usual bias from Labour Broadcasting Corp.

    It sounds like SLab “RIP” still don’t have a FU*KING clue, and never will.

    Look out for the 2 war criminals Broon & Bliar making a come back, to save the nation, as I said before “Not a FU*KING clue”.

    Does anyone remember the film Robin Hood Prince of Thieves,
    the scene with the witch (Geraldine McEwan I think) casting spells, I can see Maigrit Curran playing that part perfectly.

  173. Stoker says:

    Of course you forgot and i was being kind to you.
    Sorry, i forgot to be diplomatic, will remember next time.

    CameronB Brodie wrote:
    “My problem with, is that I’m boycotting Israel.”

    I don’t follow, Cameron, educate me here.

  174. Edward says:

    Democracy Reborn
    My money is on Deputy Dugdale saying that 😉

  175. Democracy Reborn says:

    David Cameron interviewed by Matt Frei for Channel 4 News:

    “There’s not going to be another referendum.”

  176. Cuilean says:

    MSM are now highlighting, ‘ad nauseum’, that the SNP benefited disproportionately under ‘First Past The Post’, (FPTP). They conveniently forget, of course, that the biggest benefactors under the FPTP system are the Tories and Labour.

    Yes, the SNP won 25 more seats under ‘FPTP’, than under ‘Proportional Representation’ (PR), but the Tories won 91 more seats under FPTP than if PR had been used; and Labour won 35 seats more under FPTP than PR.

    The MSM should be reminded of this each & every time they attempt to raise this ‘unfair’ canard.

    Tories share of UK popular vote: 36.9% of 650 =240 seats;plus 91

    Labour share of UK popular vote: 30.4% of 650 =197 seats;plus 35

    SNP share of UK popular vote: 4.7% of 650 = 31 seats; plus 25

    LD share of UK popular vote: 7.9% of 650 = 51 seats; minus 43

    UKIP share of UK popular vote: 12.6% of 650 = 82 seats; minus 81

    Green share of UK popular vote: 3.8% of 650 = 25 seats; minus 24

  177. Robert Peffers says:

    That idiot Cameron has just said on TV, (Ch4 News).

    “The UK Stood alone against Hitler.”

    What the hell do they teach these posh boys at their posh schools? I was living in a cottage that had a large orchard, (so was protected from military occupation),but lay within, and surrounded by, Bordon Camp, (Hants). I was friends with the Canadian troops across the wire fence, the ones who got wiped out in the Dieppe raid.

    The entire British Empire, Free French, Free Poles and many, many more stood shoulder to shoulder with the UK. Why do these idiots insult these brave people who died to supported the United Kingdom?

  178. IAB says:


    I am working abroad just now and I was asked an interesting question – ‘How were the SNP allowed to win all those seats?’. It made me think that the campaign to follow the ballot boxes might have worked and also might explain the Tory majority.

  179. CameronB Brodie says:

    Perhaps I’ve got the wrong end of the stick, but I thought is a commercial venture. As such, it’s turnover contributes to the Israeli economy. An economy I do not wish to support.

    P.S. I didn’t mean to get in the way. Here, I’ll hud the jackets. 😉

  180. john king says:

    Seems like the Lib dems have slipped into their oneses put on girly flick (When Harry met Sally I’m told)popped the top off a Ben and Jerrys and got their pals in the media to put out a wee feel good lie,BBC always look after their own.

    Seems the lib Dums have picked up 5000 new members since the election,

    So whit do we have here then? ah voted fur the SNP but am lookin aboot fur the people who really represent ma views, so the Lib Dems? well they lost 49 odd seats across the UK,goat their arse handed tae them am telt, looks good to me ah’ll jine them. 🙂

  181. John O says:

    Live stream from london occupy democracy.

  182. Kirriereoch says:

    @Mealer 5:07

    “Can anyone provide official figures on the vote split for Shetland?(as opposed to Orkney and Shetland)”

    I heard on Newshaft on Thusday evening/Friday morning that Sheltand voted 42% SNP and 38% LibDem and who would win now depended on the result in Orkney, which wasn´t announced until a while later.

  183. Robert Peffers says:

    @scottieDog says: 10 May, 2015 at 3:39 pm:

    “That belief about the Scottish economy is pretty widely held down there. When you ask what the English economy is based on you either get the blank stare or the ‘city of london powerhouse’ line. “

    I always knew that the figures were always wrong but lacked any way to get enough information to prove it. Then I read an article by Niall Aslan – The Great Deception that exposed the lies. This has been redone as The Great Obfuscation. Niall is a foreBnsic Accountant and has produced some great stuff. Both papers can be found here : –

    Along with lots of other great stuff including an article on PFI/PPP debt. All very well worth reading and full of good information.

  184. X_Sticks says:

    @Aceldo Atthis

    Exactly what I was saying on the previous thread earlier. Cameron thinks to lay a trap for the SNP – we must ensure he doesn’t get away with it.

    @The Earthshaker

    I doubt you’ll find many (if any) here mocking the situation you find yourselves in Wales. Most folk on here are well aware of what you are up against. Very similar to the ‘Scottish cringe’ but times 10. I would offer sympathy, but I know that like us cybernats you wouldn’t want it. What you will always find here on Wings is solidarity with the Welsh cause.

  185. yesindyref2 says:

    I’m bored, but not the chairman of the board, but I’m bored.

    Over three years of doing the referendum stuff, followed immediately by the election stuff, all in our own way, and now it’s over, it was a huge win on the 56 SNP MPs, a bit of a setback on the Indy ref but now I’ve read the post-mortems, done my own and what comes next, and the question is, what does come next? That’s up to Sturgeon and the 56 SNP MPs, nothing I can do.

    Yawn. I might have to do some work 🙁

  186. msean says:

    If you promise ,nay, vow,with the assent of the PM of the day, a thing to win the Indyref,does Scotland have a right to some kind of recourse like when if you buy a dodgy product?

  187. Stoker says:

    @ CameronB Brodie.

    Mmm, interesting!
    Thanks for that.
    Never heard that before.
    I’m now on a quest to find out.
    As far as i was aware it’s a not for profit set-up?

  188. Legerwood says:

    Robert Peffers @ 6.53

    Well at least he said ‘the UK’ thus including Wales Scotland and NI. During the 70th anniversary commemoration of Dunkirk the BBC reporter said ‘1940 , when England stood alone’. That was us told then.

    Cameron probably thought he was being inclusive by saying UK but I bet he had his fingers crossed and was really thinking: England.

    It would never cross his tiny mind that anyone else being involved was anything other than a secondary issue.

  189. Thepnr says:


    That link to the mock election held by the primary school kids in England with the SNP winning has been the best thing I have yet read about this election.

    Absolutely priceless!

    “Party leader Emily campaigned with Keegan King as deputy. Emily said she was “overjoyed” at winning the election and when asked what she thought contributed to the victory, she said: “The policies, which included free nursery places for three and four-year-olds.”

  190. Rob James says:

    Isn’t it so nice of McConnell, Archie McSquintbannet et al to inform us how we should progress. Perhaps somebody should inform them that they no longer have any responsibility in Scottish decision making. They don’t seem to understand that they lost. Perhaps it’s time to get over it.

    They appear to have a bright future, however, according to Alex Rowley (MSP), with an abundance of young talent such as….wait for it….. Kezia Dugdale and Jenny Marra.

    I think we should just leave them to their own devices until it’s time to call the vet in to have them put down.

    As for Cameron, I’ll give him a week after he attempts to delay the EU in/out ref before there’s a full scale revolt in the Tory ranks. If only we had kept our EU card close to our chest, our support for Cameron on that matter could have been a great bargaining tool. However, it may still work in our favour (opt out).

  191. Mealer says:

    Kirriereoch 7.11
    Thanks for that!

  192. CameronB Brodie says:

    As far as i was aware it’s a not for profit set-up?

    If this is the case I will need to reconsider my position. Time to take a closer look myself. 😉

  193. Robert Peffers says:

    @Tackety Beets says: 10 May, 2015 at 3:47 pm

    “Was it yon Janet Dailey from Sun Te lie graph?”

    She ay gets ma goat , nae maetter fit she says !

    That’s the old bag, Tackety Beets, I just couldn’t put a name to the face. She is freelance and also writes for
    The Times, Sunday Times, Independent, Sunday Telegraph and Spectator.

    After you came up with the name I knew why my usually good memory let me down. There was a USA novel writer of the same name, (but her surname was spelled differently). My late wife used to read some of her novels but it was romantic stuff and not my kind of fiction.

    This present live one is a real poisonous piece of work.

    Thanks for the memory jog.

  194. BrianW says:

    @ bugsbunny 6:29pm

    I’ll follow your O/T and add to the mix the adverts for films coming out at the pictures (not moovies), and when they say the date. They miss of the th, nd and rd form the date.

    It’s May 7, not May 7th.. does my nut in.

  195. Robert Peffers says:

    Andy Murray has just seen off Nadal and won his second clay court final. Seems the British Number one might have become a foreign player over the past week. Not getting much praise these days

  196. call me dave says:

    Pic of Tom Harris constituency office up for sale (stu’s twitter link) Love it!

    I read nearly £12M WM golden parachute payments for all UK MP’s who are defeated. Most from Scotland.

    Magnificent Murray mugs Nadal in the final (on clay) 🙂
    6-3 6-2 Two titles in a row.

  197. Mealer says:

    Robert Peffers 7.19,
    We owe Niall Aslan a debt of gratitude for his work over many years.

  198. Vince says:

    Not a bad week to be an independence supporter, 56 MPs and our great sporting son Andy beats Rafa in the Madrid Final 6-3, 6-2!!

  199. Doug McG says:

    Tam Jardine re Ian Murray’s door “Surely out of the 19293 folk who voted for him there is a decent painter and decorator who can give him a wee deal and restore that green door to its former glory?”

    Maybe it’s a landlord maintenance item , step forward with paintbrush in hand , Nigel Griffiths . If memory serves , he was a dab hand at decorating his WM office.

  200. Rob James says:

    Neil Findlay on STV news saying Labour need a clear out from top to bottom, new organisation, new policy. He’s not wrong.

  201. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    Big Jock at 6.18

    With you 100%. FFA is a trap. Another referendum as quickly as possible should be the aim or we get trapped into never ending negotiation about degrees of devo whatever.
    We nearly won last September (perhaps we did?).
    We are better placed now. Why then should we step back?

    Everybody I know wants another referendum and the only people who don’t want one are those who apparently won the last one.

    I think Nicola and our high command know exactly what they are doing. They are demanding what we will not get.

  202. call me dave says:


    It’ll give you just a little more time. 🙂

    I never liked it either.

    I suppose the papers will have to scrape around for stories too!
    Still dim Jim should be singing his swan song by Tuesday.

    GMS will also be dull, no SNHS bad or SNP admits etc etc.

  203. CameronB Brodie says:

    Stoker is a privately funded on-demand archiving site, similar to WebCite.

    I’ve not managed to find anything more enlightening than the above.

  204. James123 says:

    @CameronB Brodie

    I may sound a bit ignorant here but what does have to do with Israel?

  205. chic mcgregor says:

    Yellow is the new Brave.

  206. Robert Peffers says:

    @JBS says: 10 May, 2015 at 4:07 pm:

    “… Effie has written that she’s an academic who works at the University of Aberdeen. I have to say that if she hadn’t volunteered that information I would never have suspected anything of the sort.”

    There are some great and effective academics. Many do live in the real world but there are many where academia is a wee protected, closed, safe bubble that isolates these other types of academic in a wee world of their very own.

    Strikes me Effie may just imagine her wee bubble is safer in the hands of a Union Establishment party.

  207. Cactus says:

    Evening, since when did Ikea start using the map of Britain for their advertising purposes? 🙂 That second map, it’s all mellow yellow and moody blues.. I’ll go for two of your Tarva’s please!

    The press and the power that they appear to possess, is visibly shocking.. take note new readers.

    We should be seeing the ‘world map of Scotland’ by now, as part of a European family. All of our countries are built upon different frames.

    We journey on..

  208. bugsbunny says:


    I might be wrong, but isn’t is at the end of the internet address for ISrael?


  209. galamcennalath says:

    Andrew Marr says there is a secure majority for the SNP in Scotland, and Tory insurgency in England.

    No, wait a minute … Perhaps he said it the other way round!

    Wee shite! An absolute disgrace to his roots!

  210. Thepnr says:

    @The Earthshaker

    You wrote a really good post about the political situation in Wales and why it is that this exists.

    It threw me a bit though when you stated in your final paragraph:

    “I don’t know if anything will change and I wish you all the best, but just bare in mind when you next mock us here in Wales that we really are up against it for all sorts of historical and cultural reasons that some of us are trying our best to over turn.”

    Seriously I have no recall of any poster on Wings mocking Wales or the Welsh. Certainly I have never read such a post though admit I could have missed these mockers you speak of.

    On the other hand, your not here just to spread mistruths are you?

  211. chic mcgregor says:

    Rob James
    “They appear to have a bright future, however, according to Alex Rowley (MSP), with an abundance of young talent such as….wait for it….. Kezia Dugdale and Jenny Marra.”
    Maybe their problem is their definition of talent.

  212. James123 says:

    .is is the country code for Iceland not Israel, Isreal is .il.

  213. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    Cameron says there will not be another referendum.
    In fact as we live in a Western democracy there will be another referendum whenever Scotland or its Parliament decides to have one.
    Under international law We do not have to have UK permission to decide how we wish to be governed or have a referendum on it, we merely have to ensure that the process is free, open and democratic.

    In fact the Scottish Parliamant could decide to vote itself independent (as a number of devolved legislatures have done in recent decades) as any restrictions on its power are in democratic terms essentially voluntary.

    Cameron is bluffing.

  214. Robert Kerr says:

    Correct .is is Iceland.

    I buy my Icelandic sweaters from

  215. Edward says:

    CameronB Brodie


    ‘IS’ is actually Iceland not Israel 🙂

    The two letter internet country code for Israel is ‘IL’


  216. CameronB Brodie says:

    Equally ignorant here. Is it not an Israeli based operation?

  217. Mealer says:

    Rob James 7.58
    Labour need a clear out?
    I couldn’t agree more.Lets get rid of another load of Labour this time next year!

  218. @ CameronB Brodie

    The country domain .is, used by, stands for Iceland not Israel. Iceland in Icelandic is Ísland. I don’t know anything about the ownership of the website but the domain is registered to someone in Prague.

    Israel uses the domain ending .il

  219. chic mcgregor says:

    Edward, Kenny

    “Re SOS for ScotlandI’ve a feeling that the post may be scrapped”

    I think that is an option on the cards.

    I know the British Constitutional Unit, now at UCL, are advising that a new constitutional ministerial level post with a UK wide remit should be created.

  220. Cactus says:

    @The Scottish Daily Mail on Wednesday –

    “How your tactical vote will impact.. where switching allegiance could swing the results.”

    More than suggestive, don’t you think?

    Best wishes to the 56.. once you’s are in your seats, get a ceilidh a-going on in the commons!

  221. call me dave says:

    @Dave McEwan Hill

    “I think Nicola and our high command know exactly what they are doing. They are demanding what we will not get”.

    We want the whole empire biscuit including the cherry on the top.

    But the voters in Scotland need to be persuaded through good parliamentary ground work that the WM system is flawed and not in the interests of the country (that’s not a Cameronism) I mean Scotland.

    It won’t be easy but the 56 will have to work the system and dig the dirt first. Only when folk see we have tried our best and it’s no good will they coalesce behind a common cause.

    We need high numbers for yes and the old union social ties (including folk like me) are edging towards the great unknown at a steady pace. It’s just a matter of timing.

  222. CameronB Brodie says:

    .is is the country code for Iceland not Israel, Isreal is .il.

    I feel rather silly now. Sorry folks. 😉

  223. James123 says:

    Interesting video from John Harris as he witnesses first hand the political earthquake in Scotland.

  224. Ken500 says:

    The UK stood alone against Hitler. Utter tripe.

    26Million Russians died 1 in 6, protecting the West. They took the 11WW hit. Russia was devastated.

  225. Napoo says:

    It is ironic that Scots who are justifiably irate that some English lump everything Scottish into one toxic bag then turn around and apply the English attitude towards Israel. Grow up. Not everyone in Israel agrees with the government.

  226. BuckieBraes says:

    @Robert Kerr

    On the other hand, Jim Murphy buys his Israeli sweaters from

  227. Rock says:

    Jamie Arriere,

    “One way I hope the SNP56 can start shaking things up in Westminster is not to play along with the archaic pairing system for MPs – where an MP arranges with a member on the opposite benches not to attend on votes where his opposite member is absent.”

    Yes, I want to see at least 57 unionist MPs forced to turn up for Scottish debates.

    I have faith that the 56 SNP MPs will not let down the people of Scotland.

  228. Kenny says:

    Democracy Reborn says: Paul Hutcheon, Sunday Herald, quoting a “top Scottish Labour MSP” on Murphy:

    “It’s absurd he’s even considering staying. He’s about as popular as herpes.”

    Who would have thought SLABs would have such a way with words? My favourite is Andy Kerr’s description of Jim Murphy’s entire election campign: akin to dad-dancing at the hippest Glasgow nightclub!

    The Lib Dems have no way received new members! Only last week, Andrew Marr was saying to Clegg that “you’ve lost a third of your members”, I believe. Truth is not the Lib Dems’ strong point: remember their own “Lib Dem polls” showing them ahead in many Scottish seats?? Aye, richt….

  229. Robert Kerr says:

    The bank at Keflavic airport takes Scottish money no problem. Not so easy to change back to Sterling though.

    Great country, great people. Nearest country to us that is really foreign. Go and enjoy.

  230. Ken500 says:

    Nicola, Alex and Co will get everything they want. There will be no austerity in Scotland. Alex knows where the bodies are buried and will exhume them. Total disclosure. Parliamentary privilege.

  231. Croompenstein says:

    Cameron shows himself up for the posh boy fucker that he is by stating there won’t be another referendum, is this guy not supposed to be a statesman he’s the prime minister of the UK FFS.

    After the election a real statesman would reflect on what happened, take stock and not come out with pish like this. It’s not in your gift to grant the Scots a referendum you moonfaced fucker.

    Even Boris calmed the waters with his statement on a Federal solution but not Cam boy. Is Boris a better statesman than Cameron!! looks like it

  232. Robert Peffers says:

    @The Earthshaker says: 10 May, 2015 at 4:12 pm:

    “Off topic, I don’t mean to offend but I’m fed up of reading Wings and the comments about Wales when people are so ill informed to the situation down here, so I thought I’d post a few facts/points to note when thinking about Wales and the political situation.

    Well, Earthshaker, you do indeed offend. In the first place there is little criticism of Wales on this forum and you apparently are assuming we are ignorant of the situation in Wales. I assure you many of us know exactly what the situation there is.

    The Plaid Cymru leader is actually well respected but, as our own leaders, not beyond criticism when making ignorant errors, (ignorant as in not knowing the facts). I have expressed mild disappointment in her claim that Wales should get funding on a par with Scotland.

    Not because I grudge Wales any funding but because Ms Wood shows by such claims she doesn’t know the true facts of how the Barnett Formula works to fund the three devolved countries. I will continue explaining this as I rate not knowing the facts is the greatest error that causes division among UK countries.

    In fact Wales is NOT less well funded than either Scotland or N. Ireland. The per capita funding for all four countries is based upon the value of the functions provided to the English directly from the United Kingdom Ministries because England has no, (elected as such), parliament she gets no block grant.

    This English base per capita funding is what the Barnett Formula uses to calculate the block grants for N. I, Scotland and Wales. It does this by taking the value the English get directly from the UK ministries and dividing it by the population of England. It then takes the devolved functions the others get from the UK Ministries and allocates, on a per capita basis, the value that each Englander gets for that function. However, as England is the basic start point England gets less per capita funds as England has no devolved functions.

    The country with the most devolved functions has to have more devolve funding to run them and that is N. I. Next most devolved is Scotland and last comes Wales. So there is actually no case to claim that Barnett funds any country more than the others.

    As that funding is to cover the cost of the devolved functions from the UK ministries the difference is due to the different devolved functions. So Leanne is wanting funded on a par with Scotland but Scotland has more devolved functions to fund from it.

    As I said I’m not grudging Wales anything but I am annoyed that Leanne is leaving herself open to being proved to not understand what she is asking for. For a start she seems not to know that on a per capita basis N.I. is highest funded.

    If you must attempt to drive wedges between our two countries they you owe it to yourself to at least know what you are posting about.

  233. scott says:

    Just a thought,when Murphy is sacked as he will have time on his hands will he go back to Glasgow Uni to finish his degree on shouting and bluster,it won’t cost him anything as eduction is free in Scotland.He might be able to get a job from his friend Macconnel.

  234. heedtracker says:

    O/T but Because Bomber Bliar and Crash Gordon were most successful/popular UKOK Prime ministers ever, I have thrown this delightful chap’s hat into the leadership ring. From Scottish Labour leader to British Labour leader and next British Prime minister. Come on how bad could he be?

  235. Socrates MacSporran says:

    Anent the “England standing alone” shite.

    I cannot remember which one it was, but, in one of the programmes celebrating the 70th anniversary of VE-Day, there was a reference to Dunkirk, and Churchill mentioning that the British Empire now stood alone against Naziism.

    This brought forth the comment from one of those listening: “That’s us all alone now – all 500 million of us.”

  236. call me dave says:

    Just seen in the Herald on-line. Sorry tried to archive it but no good this time.

    Article about Murphy…No punches pulled, here are some bits.

    However, other party insiders – candidates, elected representatives and activists – say the new leader made the toxic legacy he inherited worse, not better. “He snatched catastrophe from the jaws of defeat,” said one.

    Murphy, who has never been on the intellectual wing of his party, has always been regarded internally as a

    talented self-publicist who was adept at advancing his own interests.
    One colleague, explaining Murphy’s approach to the media, said: “He once told me he was not bothered about the words in newspapers, just the pictures, and how he looked on TV.”

    One senior party figure said he didn’t know if Murphy was campaigning for office, or for “the front page of Vogue”.

    Members of Murphy’s team admired his energy, but were bemused by his vanity. They were irked by his bad habit of pulling stupid faces in photo-shoots and grew weary of his incessant football references.

    He stopped dying his hair, but only reluctantly. The flip-flop campaign strategy was believed to be another reflection of Murphy’s shallowness.

    During last year’s leadership contest – where he succeeded Johann Lamont by seeing off MSPs Sarah Boyack and Neil Findlay – Murphy had struck a predictable New Labour pose, backing a fairer distribution of a bigger tax base and calling for a partnership between workers and businesses.

    After the leadership contest, he ditched his Blairite clothes and reinvented himself as a small-N nationalist who was committed to reaching Yes voters. His party’s constitution was changed to include the word “patriotism”, he flattered 190,000 Labour-friendly Yessers by describing them as the “most important” voters in the UK, and “Yes for Labour” was devised as the campaign slogan.

    However, doubts soon crept in about the wisdom of the strategy. Feedback revealed that people did not like to be pigeon-holed as Yes or No voters; more damagingly, those who had backed independence did not like Murphy.

    Labour sources at Holyrood were also astonished at Murphy becoming the poster boy for autonomy for the Scottish party: as Secretary of State for Scotland in Gordon Brown’s government, he was said to have interfered in ex-leader Iain Gray’s speeches and tried to change the content. And when the party’s interim devolution commission produced a blueprint of more powers for the Scottish Parliament, Murphy was dead against giving Holyrood control of income tax. “He was the MPs’ champion,” said one insider.

    As the polls showed the SNP lead increasing rather than narrowing, Murphy replaced Yes for Labour with the sort of left-wing campaign he had derided for most of his political life.

    He backed tax rises on the wealthy,became a champion of the “working class” and campaigned outside a business that used zero-hours contracts. It was as if Findlay had won in December.

    One ally said: “He was even less convincing as a left-winger than a Nat.” In a final U-turn, the last days of the campaign were marked by an attack on a second referendum, an approach some colleagues felt should have been adopted from the start. In four months, he had gone from Nat-lite to full-fat Unionist.

    A Labour insider said Murphy’s strategy did not lack effort, just credibility. “He never sees anything through. Some folk just see him as insincere.”

    Murphy’s handpicked team – effectively a Better Together reunion – also attracted criticism. Many of the

    faces who worked on the pro-UK body, which was described as a “pop-up political campaign” for Murphy, eased seamlessly into their new roles.

    However, like many sequels, Better Together 2 was a pale imitation of the original. Murphy’s key lieutenants – chief of staff John McTernan and strategy head Blair

    McDougall – were an awkward fit, while a source said three words commonly associated with McDougall were: “Where is he?”

    Meanwhile, McTernan appeared to revel in his status as Murphy’s top dog. Under Johann Lamont, the then general secretary Ian Price had occupied the sole private office in the party’s Bath Street headquarters. With Murphy in charge, McTernan got the office, while new general secretary Brian Roy used a desk in the open-plan area.

    McTernan was also unpopular among some colleagues at Holyrood and acquired a reputation for making bold statements that were rarely borne out by reality. It was said he claimed that Sturgeon would struggle in the first UK leaders’ debate, and announced that an event by Gordon Brown in Margaret Curran’s constituency would have a big effect on the campaign. In the end, Sturgeon shone in London and the Brown press conference sank without trace. One source said McTernan had two modes: nice guy or wannabe Malcolm Tucker.

    And so it goes!…on a bit more. Hell we all suspected.
    I think that’s it for Jim.

  237. Macart says:

    Re Neil Findlay and his clear out?

    There is a much harder task which Labour in Scotland need to do.

    In no particular order:

    Lose the hatred
    Separate completely from London Labour
    Represent people, do not attempt to direct them

    and last, but by no means least, stop the politics of lies, smear, denigration and manipulation.

    If Labour feels that any of the above are unachievable then just don’t bother turning up, we’re not interested any more. We are so fucking done with politics directed through a poisonous media, and utterly pissed off with political parties that don’t hold up their hands to their own errors or who project those errors onto convenient scapegoats.

    No more spads, focus groups, ‘professional politicians’ or as we like to call them lying careerist shits who place a party and a career before the wishes and needs of those who gave their party purpose and life. No more turning on your own to fulfil political agendas.

    Think that covers it.

  238. Napoo says:

    Re the Pairing System: do MPs have to attend the debates if they are not paired or can they just hang out in the bar until the vote is called?

  239. ScottieDog says:

    @Robert Perffers
    Thanks for the link to the great obfuscation by Niall Aslan. Very interesting reading!

    I think this should and will have to be examined over the coming months to put this subsidy myth to bed. No doubt the MSM will oppose it and see it as being a big waste of tax payers money but if there are to be significantly more powers for scotland then GERS needs to be updated and the inaccuracies and accounting tricks need exposed.

    At least there will be a much bigger representation down there and a bigger budget so I would hope we can get a much clearer official picture of the actual flow of wealth.

    With this information things will get moving to say the least.

  240. Robert Peffers says:

    @Stoker says: 10 May, 2015 at 4:54 pm:

    “SNP wins election in Gorleston-on-sea” (England)

    Brilliant, Stoker, The grin on that wee SNP winning candidate girl’s face would light up a dark room.

    Sometimes the young ones show much better sense than their elders.

  241. Rock says:


    “I think it’s important to remember the lies,bullying and fear those often elderly No voters were subjected to by all the apparatus of the British state,including the Labour Party.”

    I strongly disagree with the idea that the 70% elderly who voted No were frightened into voting No.

    The vast majority of these people are stubborn British nationalists, very proud about everything to do with the British Empire.

    For their own cosyness they voted against a better future for the new generations.

    The 30% elderly who did vote Yes are the ones who have been working for and longing for independence for a long time and all due respect to them.

    The only people who were frightened into voting No by the likes of Asda were those from the poor working class.

    Thanks to the efforts of the radical independence campaign, we got Yes votes in working class areas but very disappointing No votes in the SNP “heartlands”.

    Lesson to be learnt – don’t pamper too much to the Brit Nat elderly and most of the middle class. Keep on waking up the downtrodden working class and keep the new generation well informed.

  242. Joemcg says:

    What’s this pish? Cameron says there will not be another Do you think you own us? Fucking must do.

  243. Ian Brotherhood says:

    You are cordially invited:

    ‘The next Branch Meeting of Ayrshire SSP takes place on Tuesday 12th May in the Turf Bar, Irvine at 7.30pm. Against a background of one of the most momentous general election results in Scottish history, Richie Venton is confirmed as speaking on the subject : ‘What next for the SSP after the General Election 2015?’

    The incredible vote for the SNP was based on a number of issues, including importantly, an anti-austerity message. If and how the SNP will deliver on this in the face of a Tory Government hell bent on more austerity (more cuts to services, more slashing of benefits – more attacks on the poor) and an avowed disregard for Scottish opinion, is now their dilemma as the new establishment party in Scotland.

    This is an essential discussion and I look forward to seeing you whether you are a member, a supporter or simply someone interested in our socialist ideas. We will also be discussing the SSP National Conference on 23rd May, and details of our local campaigning activity.

    You will receive a warm welcome.’

  244. Grouse Beater says:

    Murphy: He stopped dying his hair, but only reluctantly.

    Ha! Said so days ago when the two portraits were put up on the board – ‘Just for Men’ junked.

  245. Ken500 says:

    There is a clear out at Aberdeen University. Some folk are going the same way as Labour, especially if some of their extra curricular activities become known. Hobbies are useful but obsessions are not. Unprofessional.

  246. Grouse Beater says:

    I recall a few hacks praising Murphy, but the one that irked the most came from Macwhirter.

    In a generally good and fair run of articles on the Referendum and then the election his stood out like a pulsating plook on a fat nose. He thought Murphy an excellent leader. Poor judge of character there.

  247. Can’t wait to see the Tory electoral boundary changes to undermine the SNP, how’s that going to work.

  248. Broch Landers says:

    Ahh, the press.

    Look: it’s simple historical materialism, people.

    The internet is the printing press of the 21st century, and Rev Stu is the firebrand John Knox of the Tartan Revolution.

    I would have said Patrick Hamilton, but he was not so much firebrand as flame-grilled.


    Earthshaker from Wales – great, informative post. Let’s hear more.

    Robert Peffers – “Ostend”. Brilliant. Is that Jean Brodie meets Chic Murray?

  249. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    Some folk on here are contemplating a Labour revival perhaps.
    In can’t happen as what is left in it completely discredited and nobody with any sensible political ambition is about to join it.

    It may get a second rate leadership or even Kezia but support from the leader of Glasgow council and others will probably make sure that Murphy battles on for a bit accelerating the destruction of the shell.

    The media however knows the score. (In fact, knew the score a long way out as Murph went backwards even in the faithful Daily Record pages in the latter stages of the campaign)

    We should prepare ourselves for an attempt to promote Ruth Davidson a lot more though I am sure the Tories were deeply down on their expectation of their vote last week. MSM and BBC of course don’t care which flavour of unionist they promote.

    As I have argued fro some time the SNP isn’t beating Labour, it is in a process of replacing it.
    We must be careful however that the broad political base of our support isn’t weakened by this.
    Lots of Scotland doesn’t consider itself left wing (though it nearly all in spite of this subscribes to strong communalism and generous society values)

  250. Thepnr says:

    @Doug McG

    Power of the Press indeed , see here for a treat , ( unfortunately paywalled)

    To avoid the paywall if you use Google Chrome just right click the link and select the option “Open link in incognito window”. Works for me.

  251. Cactus says:

    Hi Robert Kerr, just to add to your earlier recommendation to visit Keflavik..

    I’d also like to suggest people consider visiting Greece over the summer (if you’re fortunate enough to be able to travel.)

    The courageous people of Greece could do with some custom from their European neighbours to help with their economic recovery.

    Never been to Iceland, but it sounds tres welcoming, cheers.

  252. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Macart (8.56) –


    Hear hear to that.

  253. Socrates MacSporran says:

    Haud oan a meenit. Whoa!! Those on here who are still blaming “the elderly” for the narrow defeat of the Yes campaign.

    Again, I bring-up the story of captain Willie John McBride’s reaction to some of the 1974 British Lions wanting to watch a tv re-run of their Third Test victory, which had clinched the series.

    “That’s history – move on”, was Willie John’s advice. It is one those, still complaining that the votes of the elderly had swung the Referendum to the No side should heed.

    “Maybes Aye – maybes naw”, to quote another sporting icon.

    As one of the oldies who voted Yes, this 68-year-old does not hold my fellow coffin dodgers’ sense of Britishness against them.

    I was too-young to do National Service, but, I know many, septugenarians and older, who did. More than a few of them have told me, during those two years, they discovered that the English did not have two heads and eat their young, but, that in all respects they were just like the Scots.

    Yes, to many in England, Scotland is a small, far-away nation of which they know nothing. But, that generation, forged through the deprivations of a war-time childhood, of youth organisations such as the Scouts and Boys Brigade, then brought together by National Service, has an inherent sense of Britishness which time has not diluted.

    I have always felt that the over-the-top reaction on both sides of the Solway, to England winning the World Cup in 1966, was the start of the wedge being driven between England and Scotland.

    Yes, the Establishment waged a dirty war against us. Certainly we were lied to, and too-many Scots bought the lies. But, let’s not blame our fellow Scots for the failure of 2014.

    Don’t get mad – don’t even get even; just work harder and crush the bastards next time.

    Gael Force One is just the start – we can blow them away.

  254. Robert Kerr says:


    Never been to Greece per se but had a superb break on Crete.

  255. heedtracker says:

    Never mind swivel eyed loonies at the University of Aberdeen, listening to a nutty UKOK professor at Glasgow is always fun, as you can see what we are in for over the next 5 years, eg.
    SNP are liars, they want/dont want FFA, they don’t really exist, absolutely no one in your Scotland region really wants independence, evil Salmond is undermining even eviler Sturgeon, can I move back to Kent?

    Why twitter announce bed time at 7pm is another teamGB mystery

  256. Ken500 says:

    The look on the faces of Marr, Dimbleby and Neil when the Scottish results were coming in were worth it.

  257. Thepnr says:

    @Socrates MacSporran


    Finger pointing, navel gazing, a big boy done it and ran away attitude gets you nowhere.

    So, we failed to persuade you this time for whatever reason. That is our failure no one elses, we all need to try a bit harder as the easy votes have been won.

    Embrace the NO voters, even the Tory ones if you hope to reach your ultimate goal.

    Make friends wherever possible rather than enemies. It’s our job now to do just that.

  258. Ian Brotherhood says:

    So, Malcolm Rifkind has been saying that there was no anti-Scottishness in the run-up to the GE?

    Hmmm. Can anyone provide a solitary reason why we should listen to this scoundrel pontificating on anything?

    A wee reminder of why Rifkind had to resign: his interview on the Daily Politics. For utter brassneck, this is hard to beat, and helps explain the mindset which people have simply had enough of, whether they be SNP voters here, or anti-austerity campaigners outside the gates of Downing St.

    Watch him starting to lose the rag at 2.49…

    When asked if he’s ‘sorry’ about what’s happened, he exclaims ‘I’m absolutely livid!’ at 3.30…

    …and then, at 6.30, the moment when he slips the noose over his own neck: ‘I also want to have the standard of living that my professional background would normally entitle me to have.’

    If anyone gives you any guff about what this or that ‘big beast’ of bygone days (or Archie McPherson) thinks about what’s happening, send them a link to this clip –

  259. R-type Grunt says:

    In another place, I wrote this..

    A wee message to all the ‘Proud Scot Buts’.

    Remember last September when you said just vote No & everything will be alright? How’s that working out for you? Another five years of Tory rule because you people clearly wanted that.

    I well remember former Labour MP Jim Hood standing up in the House of Commons & stating he’d vote No to independence even if it could be proved it would makes the life’s of his constituents better.

    I also seem to recall Ed Milliband stating he’d rather have five more years of the Tories than come to a confidence & supply arrangement with the SNP.

    You all seem to be taking some satisfaction from the likely fact that 56 SNP MP’s will be largely ineffectual in Westminster. Can you not work out that it’s because the UK political system is broken? Scotland is a nation, whether you like that or not. That our ‘democratically’ elected representatives voice can be ignored is because of a system and Union that you actually support.

    And I lied there. We WILL be effective, simply by highlighting the democratic deficit that you mugs hold so dear to your hearts.

    So please don’t come trolling to me and my brothers & sisters about how we let you down by voting for the SNP.

    This mess is entirely of your own making. And it’s all because you’d prefer to drape a Union flag around your neck rather than your national flag.

    Sad deluded wankers, the lot of you. As you sow, so shall you reap.

  260. Calgacus says:

    Oh dear, that nice Mr.Cameron says we can’t have a referendum.

    I guess we’ll just have to declare UDI then.

  261. CameronB Brodie says:

    “Maybes Aye – maybes naw”

    My favourite window poster during indyref. 🙂

  262. Wuffing Dug says:

    Robert Kerr @ 8.41

    Didn’t know that!

    Iceland is a fantastic place – was there a few years ago.

    Saw geysers, boiling mud, northern lights, geothermal steam plants, molten lava and also visited the Gulfoss which is a sight to see. Went on a skidoo trip over on glacier too – that was nuts.

    Anybody who travels there should also go for swim in the hot springs.

    Amazing resilient people – we could learn a lot from them.

    Not sure I could live there, the perma dark / light would drive me nuts.

    Our guide showed us where the folk who get pished all the time end up – in a sanitarium basically.

    Oh, and the price of a pint? Don’t even ask.

  263. gerry parker says:

    Jim Murphy said Labour wouldn’t lose one seat in Scotland.
    He was right, they didn’t lose an Edinburgh seat.

    David Cameron said there won’t be another referendum?
    He might be right too, there may not be the need for another referendum for Scotland to gain its independence.

  264. Grouse Beater says:

    OT: Murray beats Nadal to win Madrid Open! 🙂

  265. Rock says:

    Socrates MacSporran,

    “But, let’s not blame our fellow Scots for the failure of 2014.”

    Sorry, but it was our “fellow Scots” who failed us when the moment of opportunity came after 300 years of waiting.

    The 70% stubborn British nationalist elderly.

    And the 90% selfish middle class.

    All respect to you for being one of the 30% Yes elderly.

  266. Dr Jim says:

    Andy Murray must have become Scottish again the British seem to have dumped him
    Was a time not so very long ago that a win over Nadal would have sent the media into hysterics of British unfettered joy

    Now it’s over, sorry Andy unfortunately you’re one of us, best claim your working tax credits while you can
    Soon they’ll just be calling you Murray, no first name
    Your child could be born ” A foreigner ” Ghasp….if you’re not carefull, what will you do is your career on the slide

    Foreigners for coaches and training partners, they suspected all along you were faking being British now it’ll be getting changed in the “Lavvi” NO Robinsons Barley for you it’ll be Asda smart price Ba Bru from now on

    Sorry Andy, you were great when you were a Brit but now you’re gone

  267. Macart says:

    @Ian B

    “Hmmm. Can anyone provide a solitary reason why we should listen to this scoundrel pontificating on anything?”

    None that I can think of Ian.

    Was this a paid for opinion? I’ve heard his rates are quite reasonable. 😉

  268. Ken500 says:

    Another Parade.

    Vulnerable people are being sanctioned and starved to death.

  269. Dr Jim says:

    @ Socrates McSporran

    Absolutely right us old gits were leafleting and chapping along with the youngsters
    I seem to remember also where did all the young Lads and Lassies come from working for Slab we haven’t captured the hearts and minds of everybody yet

    These young yins!!

  270. Wuffing Dug says:

    Cactus @ 9.24

    Did my bit for the Greek economy last year – again not mainland but spent quite a bit of money over a week in Corfu. Beautiful place, loved it.

    Had a long bus journey from the airport – have to say was a bit shocked by the state of some of the island. Derelict holiday developments, reasonably new cars wrecked and left by the side of the road etc.

    Really felt for them.

    I know there is resistance on this site to UDI, but what options are going to be left because of that arrogant fucker Cameron?

  271. Rock says:


    “Embrace the NO voters, even the Tory ones if you hope to reach your ultimate goal.”

    Target and embrace the ones who can be persuaded.

    That is why the Radical Independence Campaign was so successful and the Yes campaign in the SNP “heartlands” a disaster.

    Do you seriously believe that spending limited resources on persuading Tories in Scotland to vote for independence is a good idea?

  272. fred blogger says:

    Ian Brotherhood
    great, will it be up on youtube?

  273. scottieDog says:

    Folk mentioning iceland here. Some exciting developments…

  274. Joemcg says:

    If it is a proven fact that 70% of the auld yins sold their country down the river then why do the few pensioners on here try to defend it? Seen it umpteen times. Sorry the truth hurts I’m chuffed you voted yes but the majority have a LOT to answer for namely lumbering us with 5 years of evil working class poor and disabled hating Tory policies. They should be ashamed of themselves.

  275. Marie clark says:

    @ Macart 8.55. agree completely. Good man yourself.

    Dave McEwan Hill @0.20, Labour revival, aye, ain’t gonnae happen anytime soon. Bang on the money.

    Socrates MacSporran @9.32 Yip don’t blame the eldderly, this auld yin and husband were yes voters. It gets a bit wearing tae hear this fae a lot o young yins. Some o’ us were oot there daein oor bit fur a yes. I have a good feeling that it is coming doon the road in the near future. We jist hope wae can hing oan long enough tae see it.

    As for Cameron, who the hell does he think he is to tell us we can’t have another referendum. You sir can GTF, WE will let YOU know when we decide that we will have another one. Got that Dave.

    The way things are going we might not even need another one.

  276. heedtracker says:

    Dr Jim says:
    10 May, 2015 at 10:07 pm
    Andy Murray must have become Scottish again the British seem to have dumped him

    You’re not wrong Dr!

    “Andy Murray beats Rafael Nadal to win Madrid Masters final” is the crappy BBC headline.

    But oor Andy didn’t beat Nadal, he thrashed him. Murray’s tennis was incredible. He’s the greatest athlete ever to come out of this country and yet one vote YES tweet and at the ghastly BBC, he’s had it.

    History is written by winners and the BBC, all of the UKOK media in fact, have had a disastrous few years of Wastemomnster propaganda.

    But lets have some giant more union jack parades on the Mall, 70 years after their UKOK victory over Japan in the summer is it.

  277. Famous15 says:

    The Labour Party needs a big hitter to replace Ed Milliband.

    Here in Scotland we were most impressed by Jim Murphy? I am sure if he were asked nicely he would stand for the imperial leadership.

  278. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Here’s Weetabix-heid doing his thing, as broadcast today by Radio Four.

    We’re all just ‘hiding behind a flag’ dontcha know?

    ‘He’s gonna let fly!’

  279. Big Jock says:

    Yeh Dave I think you are right. Cameron won’t offer FFA. SNP can argue that he is hostile to Scottish Home Rule. Some no voters will see that and Smith as a two fingered salute to Scotland.

    If he offers more powers he knows it won’t stop independence. So why would he be the vassal of Scottish independence by offering FFA. He will dig his heels in and will turn the whole of Scotland against the Tories for denying our democratic wishes.

    To be honest I think we just need to relax a bit and let nature take its course. The 2016 SNP manifesto will be revealed in late autumn or at least affirmed at the conference.

    We need to keep the new SNP members sweet whilst managing expectations. Inactivity is the death of any political party. Action needs to be seen as well as heard.

  280. Thepnr says:


    Tell you what, you go and do your thing whatever that is and I’ll go and do mine whatever that is.

  281. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Fred Blogger –

    If you’re referring to the Malcolm Rifkind/Daily Politics interview, it is on Youtube. That’s where I got it.

    Here it is, again:

  282. msean says:

    If Scotland votes for another referendum and doesn’t get it,I wonder how it would work legally seeing that there is a precedent for it (September 18th 2014).

    Can’t seem to find any written references as to how declarations of Independence proceed,or if such a guide exists.

  283. BruceAlmighty says:

    Well, and I never thought I would say this, I feel sorry for UKIP. They polled extraordinary well in England and deserve a larger democratic representation in parliament. On another note, here’s hoping the Tories are stupid enough to push forward with their plan to separate from EU and we get our freedom.

  284. heedtracker says:

    See BBC r4 introduced MacPherson to England as their commentator “immortalised” by Archie Gemmill’s goal/Trainspotting.

    I watched the Argentina world cup via BBC as a kid but what the nice BBC man didn’t say, was they ended BBC coverage of that Argentine World Cup with a long ghastly montage of Ally McLeod crest fallen face, over and over and over, to a very crap pop song. I was just a kid but it struck then as a really nasty thing to do, especially considering England couldn’t even qualify.

    English nationalism doesn’t really exist though.

  285. Mealer says:

    Thepnr 10.46,
    Good call.

  286. Gary45% says:

    Call me Dave 8.55pm
    Me Thinks Fud is more concerned about the front cover of Vague not Vogue.

  287. Socrates MacSporran says:


    With respect sir, in the case of Andy Murray, you are talking pish.

    I read the BBC Sport website story on Murray’s win. He is identified as “The Briton”, right at the start of the second paragraph; he is only referred to as: “the Scot” in the fourth-last paragraph.

    As someone who has spent the past 40-years working in sport, “Briton” or “British” is the correct identification for Andy. Tennis in the UK is run by the Lawn Tennis Association, which is a UK-wide body.

    When he steps onto the court, he is British. Were he Welsh, or from Northern Ireland, he would still be British.

    Any deviation from this along the lines of: “British when he wins – Scottish when he loses”, is simply bad journalism.

    I have no problem with Scottish newspapers such as The Herald or The Scotsman, identifying him as “Scottish”. This suits their local audience. Similarly, I have no problem with BBC Scotland or STV or any Scottish radio station dubbing him “Scottish” – again, they are dealing with a local audience. But, in the national media – he should be “British”.

  288. Thepnr says:

    It would seem that there are a fair few regular posters on Wings that like nothing better than to come and stab pointy fingers in the direction of the elderly in Scotland who undeniably voted NO.

    That’s not their fault FFS it is OUR fault, we failed to convince, we failed to get our arguments across and we failed to engage enough.

    We let the media blind the arguments for Independence and instead accepted that if these older people were not out posting leaflets, attending rallies or protesting at Pacific Quay then it wasn’t worth spending any time on them.


    These people are our parents and grandparents, they are just uninformed. They carry no blame, the Yes campaign does, the SNp do and so to do we that tried to do our bit.

    We have won the young vote and the compassionate Labour vote, now we have to win our parents and grandparents vote.

    Stop blaming any section of our society, you would be hung, drawn and quartered on this site if you attempted to “blame” a different demographic for “losing the referendum” if they were furriners!

    Grow up.

  289. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    Rock at 10.22

    The SNP “heartlands” have never (until some on Thursday)seen the SNP win with a majority of the vote.
    They are mostly three or four way contests in which the SNP has won elections on less than or about 40% of the vote and YES got that 40% at the Referendum.
    On most of them THREE unionist parties were campaigning for NO with high profiles.
    Makes Brendan O’Hara’s fabulous result with a nearly 9,000 majority in Argyll and Bute (we were fourth in 2010) all the more amazing.

    As a nice touch one of Brendan O’Hara’s daughters got the prize on our Lucky Dip having pulled 56 SNP seats out of the tin

  290. X_Sticks says:

    Famous15 says:

    “we were most impressed by Jim Murphy? I am sure if he were asked nicely he would stand for the imperial leadership.”

    I did suggest that on twitter:

    Maybe @JimForScotland could run for Labour Party leadership.
    Oh, wait.
    You have to be an MP!
    oops PMSL

  291. CameronB Brodie says:


    They should be ashamed of themselves

    Not a bit harsh? Likely to make friends and influence people?

    Identity is the product of a complex interaction of co-constructed factors (cultural, geographical, economic, historical, etc. – the environment in the broadest sense). This process is fluid, reflecting changing circumstances over time.

    Imagine growing up in a world where Britain still has an empire, though diminished, and there is no opposition to the right-wing MSM and the BBC. One Nation Britain isn’t a new project.

  292. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    Thepnr at 11.01

    You are correct. It was a substantial part of our failure to establish that we are comfortably self supporting which allowed Better Together to frighten folk about their benefits ans pensions.

    Heard the subsidy myth repeated on QT the other night again and it wasn’t contested as Dimbleby didn’t come back to John Swinney after the remark was made.

    This is issue is the key to our independence.

    We must stop arguing complicated, dubious and partisan economic figures with our opponents and compare our total funding available with that other similarly sized countries which provide better services to their peoples despite lower GDP and GNP.

  293. Aceldo Atthis says:

    The recent Herald article on Murphy which someone posted is just awesome, confirming everything we suspected of the egotistical self-serving sociopath.

    I urge everybody to read it. There’s no way on earth he can survive that.

    But why did the Herald wait until now to say what we have all known for months? That the animal would say and do anything to further his career was obvious to us all many moons ago.

    Where was the Herald with its talk of Labour’s pop-up campaigns during the referendum when the imperial masters marched into Glasgow?

    All of a sudden the Herald tries it’s hand at honest reporting. Why? Because they know Labour are completely done up here and they are trying to win back their readership, that’s why.

    And labour are finished here, even more so if they lurch further to the right as they’re expected to. Labour HQ won’t want to send even a packet of balloons up here to support the SLAB’s next campaign because they know it would be a waste of balloons.

    Bye, ya shower of phoney, treasonous, scumbags. I hope you rot in hell and I’d much rather deal with the Tories than you lot…

    RIP Scottish Labour.

  294. caz-m says:

    Ian Murray MP, didn’t win his Edinburgh seat under the name of Scottish Labour. It was under the name of the new political Party in Scotland.

    It’s called:

    The Unionist Coalition Party.

    Ian Murray can thank ALL the Unionists in his area for getting him re-elected.

  295. Cadogan Enright says:

    here is a site relevant to the BBC licence boycott – for different reasons – but interesting for all that

    the pages on fines and the 25 things the BBC does not want you to know are interesting

    They don’t seem to have the same strong advice I have seen on this site on how to deal with TV licence officers

  296. heedtracker says:

    Socrates MacSporran says:
    10 May, 2015 at 10:59 pm

    With respect sir, in the case of Andy Murray, you are talking pish.

    Normally you’d have a point. But you’re missing my point here. Its because Andy is pro Scottish independence we have such low key, down beat, dismal headlines from the BBC creep show.

    So once again, In front of his home crowd, Rafael Nadal was this evening in Madrid, THRASHED by ANDY MURRAY, the greatest British athlete ever, from Dunblane Scotland.


  297. Aceldo atthis says:

    Thepnr, I like what you’re saying, it’s constructive, positive, and well-meaning.

    But, there are certain types in that older generation who are just beyond the pale when it comes to certain issues — they simply will not hear you out or budge. Now you could say that of any generation, those types are here, there, and everywhere, but amongst the older generation there just seems to be more of them and they have really firm and quite unpleasant views.

    I’ve played a lot of golf in Glasgow with the age group in question, and believe me, they’re not going to even listen to the augment. Throw in racism, male chauvinism, sectarianism, pig ignorance, a really obnoxious know-all mentality combined with a sense of entitlement that is off the scale, and you come close to what I’m talking about.

    Before anyone jumps down my throat, I’m not saying they are all like that or even that most are like that. But in my experience a lot of them are like that. I rarely meet anyone like that in othr age groups. Feel free to ask for examples, btw, it would do me good to get it off my chest…

  298. ronnie anderson says:

    @ Rock as Thepnr say’s you go do your thing ,but do it elsewhere NOT ON WOS some of us younger old will continue to promote our cause without labeling people.I well remember the anti English white settlers ranters after the 19th of whitch you were one of the commenters,who,ll be next the young people,nagativity we dont need.

  299. Cadogan Enright says:

    @Thepnr 11.01

    well said

    It was the elderly SNP supporting people that could be relied upon to return their ‘catagory 1’ cards at the polling booths last Thursday – no other age group seemed to ‘get’ the system.

    Once you have them on your side – they are the best and most faithful supporters

    anyone who moans about the over 65’s without coming up with ways of winning them over is just trolling

  300. Robert Peffers says:

    @Legerwood says: 10 May, 2015 at 7:37 pm:

    ” … Cameron probably thought he was being inclusive by saying UK but I bet he had his fingers crossed and was really thinking: England.

    Ah! Legerwood, you’ve not been paying attention. I have several times posted what Mundell quoted from a UK Government funded paper written by two professors.

    “The Treaty of Union extinguished The Kingdom of Scotland and renamed the Kingdom of England as The United Kingdom”.

    As far as the Establishment is concerned the present United Kingdom Parliament is England because they claim the Treaty of Union made the Kingdom of England the United Kingdom while wiping out Scotland.

    You can see it right now as everyone but England gets devolved powers. While the only country ruled directly from Westminster is England but no one gets elected as an member of the English Parliament. Never the less there are 533 of them running England as the UK and telling us we have no right to interfere in England only matters in their parliament.

  301. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Archie McPherson is brave enough to defy the flag-hugging hordes, and speak out for the beleaguered minority who worry for ‘their country’.

    His reward, from BBC Radio Four, is to have his weighty thoughts introduced via reference to this scene in Trainspotting (6.58) –

    Still getting that whole ‘Better Together’ feeling Archie?

  302. fred blogger says:

    Ian Brotherhood
    no, sorry i didn’t see that post.
    the ssp meeting in irvine.
    the less i hear rifkind the better.

  303. handclapping says:

    As an oldie, I can remember the relief when the NHS came in and us kids being ill didn’t put everyone else in the family on short rations so we could have the medicine our panel doctor prescribed. And we were lucky, Dad’s work got him on the panel. Just after the War we’d fought together, young and old, we were British through and through. Some of us stayed that way, just as some of today’s kids will stay Scottish to the end of their days.

  304. Iain More says:

    Well the wee hours of Friday morning were indeed sweet. But then I collapsed from consuming too much malt as the enemies of my country bit the dust.

    I woke up to the horror of 5 years more unchecked neo fascist Tory Govt. It wasn’t entirely unexpected as I didn’t believe the opinion polls. As somebody else has said on another post it was all part of the Brit Nat Press and Media narrative.

    I am now even more unforgiving of those who voted No now. That feeling is only added to by the fact that Tories will now force through boundary changes that they couldn’t in the previous 5 years and that fro me just means as whole decade of Tory misrule and hate.

    I will never find it in my heart to forgive any No voter now. I don’t think we can afford to wait another 10 years or even 5 to have another referendum but my mind tells me that we have to go into next years Holyrood election with a goal of 50% of the seats and 50% of the vote to go UDI. It is the only way that I can see to save those less fortunate than myself from Tory and Brit Nat hate.

  305. Legerwood says:

    Robert Peffers @ 11.35 pm

    I have been paying attention but I cannot see the relevance of your comment to my earlier reply to you.

    Maybe it is too late at night for me.

  306. Socrates MacSporran says:


    I think you are reading too-much into the low-key coverage.

    The Madrid Open is perhaps best described as a second tier event; each match is played over best of three sets, unlike the Grand Slams, which are over the best of five sets.

    There was no live BBC coverage. If Andy beats Nadal in the final of the French Open – the BBC will go very big on it, it might even lead the National News that night.

    OK, he beat Nadal, a Spaniard, in Spain – terrific result. But, it made the national news. I think it got the coverage it deserved, but, great win though it was, not an earth-shattering win, such as one in one of the our Majors might have been.

  307. Mealer says:

    Dave McEwan Hill 11.16
    Exactly that.We need to be asking people why they think we Scots can’t do it when so many other countries can.Is it genetic? We’re never going to get everybody to accept the idea of a prosperous independent Scotland,but we’ve currently got about half the voters with us.Its well within our abilities to improve substantially on that.The RIC and others did a great job getting people registered and along to the polls,but there’s still hundreds of thousands of people who don’t vote.Plenty of work for us all still to do.I remember Margo telling us that if each Independence supporter could persuade just one person to vote Yes,we would win.Well,we’re now in the position that if each SNP member could persuade one non voter to get out and vote,it would probably take us over the line.Surely that isn’t an outrageous possibility.
    I would also point out that we could use a whole lot more activists from the SNPs massive membership.

  308. HandandShrimp says:

    I notice there are some rather bitter comments out there as the realisation that the SNP as third largest party gets rather a lot of perks in the FPTP system. Lots of pithy comments about UKIP getting more votes and other PR related matters that they didn’t vote for when they had the chance.

    I am liking the idea of Alex sitting on the security committee…not sure if that is just mischief making but it has certainly exploded a few heads 🙂

  309. Hoss Mackintosh says:

    @Aceldo atthis,

    I knew there was a good reason why I gave up playing golf!

    Many years ago I met the same type of people.

  310. Fireproofjim says:

    For all those who blame the large number over 70s almost as ("Tractor" - Ed)s for voting No, you must remember that that generation were the immediate post war generation. That was the war when all the people of these islands stood together against real Fascism. Naturally this resulted in a feeling of solidarity with our English, Welsh and Irish cousins.
    I know that my father, who served in the Army for five years, had immense respect for his old comrades of all nationalities, and this was passed on to me as a boy.
    Brought up on Biggles and the heroes of the RAF or Navy, it was the way things were for me and everybody else that British was heroic and best.
    It took some time for the scales to drop from my eyes, but thanks to history teachers (and Sorley MacLean) by the time I was in my twenties I was a fully convinced Nationalist.
    Others, including many old friends, will never abandon their old loyalties to the Union, perhaps more for sentimental than practical reasons, but I would never call them selfish or ("Tractor" - Ed)s, merely victims of their upbringing and the times they lived in.
    It is a a bit silly to blame people for their early indoctrination. The Jesuits used to say “give me the child until seven years old and I will give you the man”.
    To me, it is great that 30% of the pensioners voted Yes. For many it took great courage to take that step against their environment.
    Anyway dinna worry. I am seventy-seven, so my No voting pals are a dying breed, I just hope to live long enough to see an Independent Scotland. Alex said he thinks it will be in his lifetime. It’s all right for young loons like him, or quines like Nicola.
    HURRY IT UP please.

  311. Jenni says:

    Re the Orkney Shetland vote, I was told, by someone who ought to know, that Lerwick stuck with Carmichael and even though the rest went SNP, that was enough to ensure he kept his seat. I wasn’t told anything specifically about Orkney however.

    I do believe that there are issues around the Road Equivalent Tariff which cause anti-snp feeling up there.

    To get within 800 votes of AC was an amazing result! We’ll do even better next time. I don’t want to see anyone trying to play the blame game – utterly self-defeating and we’re better than that.

  312. Thepnr says:


    “mischief making” I like that. To be honest there is not a lot more we can do.

    That is other than expose the corruption that permeates Westminster. I’m just pleased that we are now capable of being a thorn in thorn in their side.

    What was that film again? Oh Yes, The Mouse That Roared.

    Let’s shove that up their jacksy!

  313. Natasha says:

    I’ve come to the conclusion that we have two types of troll; the obvious visiting ones and the slightly less obvious ‘homegrown’ ones. On balance I prefer the former – they may be obnoxious but at least they’re not hypocrites.

  314. Chic McGregor says:

    “But oor Andy didn’t beat Nadal, he thrashed him. Murray’s tennis was incredible.”

    After his first win on clay last week he only goes and beats the Rey of Clay in a masters on his home turf (not).

    Certainly seems something has changed. Bjorkman would have to be the prime suspect.

    Previous clay win by any UK man in any tournament was nearly 4 decades ago.

  315. CameronB Brodie says:

    For all unthinking Scottish nationalists. We are shaped by our environment, which we ourselves shape. A total Exploding Head Movie, no? 🙂

    Welcome to the site for The People, Place, and Space Reader! The reader brings together the writings of scholars from a variety of fields to make sense of the ways we shape and inhabit our world, including both classic writings and contemporary research.

    Journal of Environmental Psychology (1996) 16, 205–220

    This paper examines the role of place and identity processes using Breakwell’s model as a framework. This model suggests that there are four principles of identity which guide action: continuity, self-esteem, self-effi-cacy and distinctiveness. These principles are examined here in relation to attachment to a residential
    environment. It focuses on residents living in an area of the London Docklands, chosen because of the social, environmental and economic change in that area. It was hypothesized that attached respondents would discuss their relationship with the local environment in ways which supported or developed the identity principles whereas nonattached residents would not consider the local environment in this way. Twenty in-depth semi-structured interviews were carried out on a sample of residents from Rotherhithe in the London Docklands. The interviews were transcribed and content analysed. Results showed that there were differences between the attached and nonattached respondents in their discussion of their local environment. In addition, there were differences within the nonattached group such that some residents were not attached and neutral with regards to their residential environment, whereas others were not attached but had a negative evaluation of their residential environment. These results are discussed within the identity process model framework.

  316. Fireproofjim says:

    CameronB Brodie
    Bloody Hell! And at 12.45 am.
    Have you no pity man!

  317. CameronB Brodie says:

    This is a war of attrition we’re in, is it not? Pitty has no place here. Winners take the hits and keep driving forwards, regardless. Plus, this is finally a subject I actually know something about. Makes a change. 🙂

  318. The Earthshaker says:

    Appreciate the replies, not trying to cause trouble or drive wedges just finding Wings not as easy to read of late, seen a lot of armchair puditry on Wales and a few cheap shots here and there and felt i needed to say something.

    Anyway good luck with everything, I have a feeling you’re new SNP MP’s are going to living things up and I wish you all the best you’ll soon be independent, Soar Alba!

    As for Robert, I don’t even know where to start with your comment but if that’s what you sincerely believe good luck to you and for the record I don’t rate Leanne Wood and I’m not a member of Plaid Cymru.

  319. CameronB Brodie says:

    Possibly overcompensation for my earlier ignorance. 🙂

  320. CameronB Brodie

    Why does 77 Brigade enter my heed.

  321. CameronB Brodie says:

    I’m afraid you’ve lost me. Care to explain?

  322. CameronB Brodie says:

    Don’t worry, the penny has just dropped. Way past bed-tine. 😉

  323. Grouse Beater says:

    I think I got a lot right, including the election result, but without realising it, in this not-to-distant essay:

  324. thoughtsofascot says:

    On the subject of PR or electoral reform, this is how I answer unionists:

    “Wasn’t that settled for a generation in 2011?”

    I support electoral reform, because I’m consistent in my belief that referendums don’t bind people. Opinions change. He who thinks things are static is a fool. However, it is extremely amusing watching unionists do mental backflips to justify rerunning one referendum, but not the other.

  325. Early Ball says:


    The Madrid Open is perhaps best described as a second tier event; each match is played over best of three sets, unlike the Grand Slams, which are over the best of five sets.

    It was a Masters 1000 event which is the equivalent of a WGC (World Golf Championship) in Golf. Very prestigious and Andy won 800,000 Euros for his efforts.

  326. Robert Peffers says:

    @Legerwood says: 10 May, 2015 at 11:59 pm:

    “I have been paying attention but I cannot see the relevance of your comment to my earlier reply to you.”

    I’m saying that with devolution Westminster is already, in all but name, the Parliament of England and I’ve been saying that all along. I have the paper by the two professors commissioned by the Tory Government but find it very difficult to get a reasonable link to it to post here.

    Its claims include that The Treaty of Union, (of the two kingdoms), ended the kingdom of Scotland and changer the title of the Kingdom of England to The United Kingdom.

    In effect they are claiming that Westminster is the Parliament of England and thus it is England devolving Powers to its underling countries of Scotland, Wales & Northern Ireland.

    They claim that in the eyes of the World’s states Scotland is legally not a country but a part of the kingdom of England and that England became The United Kingdom in 1707.

    They have made it difficult to find that government funded paper and the way it is titled is under a sub-heading with a title that is common to a barrow-load of other papers.

    As I said I downloaded it but I’ll have to sort out a method of either linking to it or putting it online somehow.

    If this paper were to be produced in something like the international courts it would be claiming that Scotland legally doesn’t exist but England does under the title United Kingdom.

    Another way to look at it is that they are claiming the Treaty of Union as an English takeover rather than a union of two equally sovereign Kingdoms.

  327. john king says:

    The Earthshaker
    I don’t have much to say other than I am a bit offended that you think we here on Wings “mock” our Welsh bretheren, we here have nothing but admiration for the Welsh struggle and to suggest we mock you would be to imagine the Scottish National party just came into being in the last few years and was immediately successful,

    In fact we have spent many painful years in the wilderness waiting for the voters to catch up with us and see what is being done to them, the evidence of which was right there in front of their eyes, so why don’t you go out and come back in again but without the chip on your shoulder the next time, WE ARE YOUR FRIENDS.
    Democracy Reborn say @6.49pm
    “David Cameron interviewed by Matt Frei for Channel 4 News:

    “There’s not going to be another referendum.”

    dja think?
    We’ll be the judge of that …dishface!
    Cameron not you DR. 🙂
    Thepnr says@7.42
    “That link to the mock election held by the primary school kids in England with the SNP winning has been the best thing I have yet read about this election.”

    Daily Mail headline

    Call me Dave @ 7.53
    “I read nearly £12M WM golden parachute payments for all UK MP’s who are defeated. Most from Scotland.”

    I said yesterday they’ll manage to turn that into a criticism of the SNP for increasing the deficit by forcing them to make all those redundancy payouts. 😉
    Kenny says @8.41pm
    “Democracy Reborn says: Paul Hutcheon, Sunday Herald, quoting a “top Scottish Labour MSP” on Murphy:

    “It’s absurd he’s even considering staying. He’s about as popular as herpes.”

    Wow so his stock has gone up then. 🙂
    Ken500 @8.36
    “The UK stood alone against Hitler. Utter tripe.”

    I wouldn’t get too hysterical about that comment because for a period in 1940 that statement was indeed true, but its clear it gives creatures like Cameron the opportunity to imply that he stood with giants
    who did in fact face the might of Nazi Germany alone when in fact he wasn’t even born!
    Any man who was evacuated from the beaches of Dunkirk would have the right to say ,”who’s this WE white man”?
    Macart says @8.56
    “If Labour feels that any of the above are unachievable then just don’t bother turning up, we’re not interested any more. We are so fucking done with politics directed through a poisonous media, and utterly pissed off with political parties that don’t hold up their hands to their own errors or who project those errors onto convenient scapegoats.

    No more spads, focus groups, ‘professional politicians’ or as we like to call them lying careerist shits who place a party and a career before the wishes and needs of those who gave their party purpose and life. No more turning on your own to fulfil political agendas.

    Think that covers it.”

    And in a nutshell WHY Macart is one of the best posters on here. 🙂
    ScottieDog says@8.58
    “@Robert Perffers
    Thanks for the link to the great obfuscation by Niall Aslan. Very interesting reading!”

    I wish I could read it,
    whenever I try it gives me error 404 page not available. 🙁
    Joemcg @ 9.06
    “What’s this pish? Cameron says there will not be another Do you think you own us? Fucking must do.”

    I think that was a naked challenge to the SNP to put two fingers up to him and go for an early ref2 which I think we all know now would be stupidity on stilts,

    We wait until the time is right and then go for it again, after we have shown beyond any doubt what we can do with independence when we’ve proved what FFA has brought,(assuming we can screw it out of him) an example being the £3b Scotland is charged for its defence but how little benefit we get both in jobs and actual defence,

    No maritime patrol aircraft (for a maritime nation are you fucking serious?), no naval presence of any note with oil rigs sitting with thier arses hanging out in the wind,
    regiments which have been destroyed which were formed during (and before) the Napoleonic wars, the greatest burden of the retraction of the military is being borne by Scotland but I see no dividend in replacing the defence jobs with alternatives do you?

    When did you see the effort the Scottish government are putting in to trying to get those poor buggers at Tullis Russell new employment in Glenrothes alternative employment being put in by Westminster when the bastards shut the pits in Scotland? THEY LEFT US TO STARVE, that’s how concerned they were with the population of Scotland they couldn’t have given a shit!

  328. john king says:

    Macart says @10.11

    Ah but is he any guid at strippin woodchip?

  329. Gillian_Ruglonian says:

    Morning John,
    and that (see above) is why you’re one of the best posters on here 🙂

  330. Ken500 says:

    ‘UK stood along against Hitler’ Utter tripe

    In Europe

    26 Million Russians died (1 in 6)
    8 Million Germans (most proportionately)
    6 Million Poles
    6 Million Jews
    1/2 Million British
    1/2 Million French
    1/2 Million Americans.

    WW11 is still relevant in European politics. Why Westminster, France and US support their illegal interventions, especially in the Middle East. Other European countries have had enough of war.

  331. john king says:

    Thepnr @11.01pm
    “It would seem that there are a fair few regular posters on Wings that like nothing better than to come and stab pointy fingers in the direction of the elderly in Scotland who undeniably voted NO.

    That’s not their fault FFS it is OUR fault, we failed to convince, we failed to get our arguments across and we failed to engage enough.”

    Couldn’t agree more,
    How can we say those people voted with their own interests at heart ,to protect their pensions,

    PROTECT THEIR PENSION? the poorest pensions in Europe, those pensions?
    Those people were played like fish by that creature whose name I can no longer bring myself to mention who used their lack of understanding against them which was a deeply despicable thing to do, and if winning a future referendum requires that we get down in the gutter with people like that count me out,

    We have a good and strong message and we need only tell it how it is, no bells no whistles, no beads and mirrors, treat the people like the adults they are, a lot of people had the scales taken from their eyes the other day, our message is in the ascendancy and while I may have been one of the angry brigade in the past, I have started to see the message Thepnr (has consistently)put out is the calm and honest approach that the SNP who kept the heed have finally gained from, softly softly catchee monkey.

  332. Robert Peffers says:

    @Fireproofjim says: 11 May, 2015 at 12:28 am@

    “For all those who blame the large number over 70s almost as (“Tractor” – Ed)s for voting No, you must remember that that generation were the immediate post war generation.”

    Great post, Fireproofjim, but I think it misses something. We old guys have been around when supporting independence had the security services watching us and we were few enough for it to be easy for them to do so.

    I was born in a tiny wee Hamlet on a farm. Then lived in an Edinburgh post war housing scheme before moving to a Fife Mining village. The first and last gives a quite different perspective as in both of these everyone knew everyone else.

    In the village of Kelty, when I moved there in 1962, I was an incomer to a village where everyone knew everyone else and it was sold labour. One Doctor was a Tory and a few of the shopkeepers also.

    Now here’s the point I’m trying to make. In Kelty in 1962 you would have been hard put to find anyone not connected in some way or another to a family that had direct connections to present or past Labour party elected or Party High Head ones. There still is a sort of dynasty of Labour Party Families throughout the village.

    With Labour being in charge in Scotland for around 80 years this dynastic thing is bound to be repeated all over Scotland but less noticeable in larger communities.

    Now chances the connections to Labour families must be higher as the age of the person is higher. In other words these older Labour voters are the remnants of the old strong Labour Party. They are not likely to ever change. Kelty only changed by the building of private housing schemes where before it had been only Labour controlled council houses and to get one you needed a connection to a family with Labour connections.

  333. fletch49er says:

    BBC’s Garry Marshall & GMS reporting this morning (11.05.15 07:37am) trying to infer that Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon at ‘odds’ on current position on independence. Followed by opinions by political commentators for about 2 mins. Subtle as a brick through a jeweller’s window. Here we go!

  334. john king says:

    Aceldo atthis says @11.30pm

    “Thepnr, I like what you’re saying, it’s constructive, positive, and well-meaning.

    But, there are certain types in that older generation who are just beyond the pale when it comes to certain issues — they simply will not hear you out or budge. ”

    Well forget about them then, they’re not worth the effort, they are going to die anyway and wont be replaced.
    Lets focus on the people who WILL listen!

  335. john king says:

    Gillain Ruglonian @ 7.22am
    Aw shucks

  336. fletch49er says:

    correction: Gary Robertson*

  337. Robert Peffers says:

    @Natasha says: 11 May, 2015 at 12:37 am:

    “I’ve come to the conclusion that we have two types of troll; the obvious visiting ones and the slightly less obvious ‘homegrown’ ones. On balance I prefer the former – they may be obnoxious but at least they’re not hypocrites.”

    Most of us can smell them out quickly, Natasha. A really good troll can stick around for a long time without being obvious and without doing anything to alert many regulars but the smell of Troll is powerful and hard to disguise.

  338. Robert Peffers says:

    @Chic McGregor says: 11 May, 2015 at 12:44 am:

    “Certainly seems something has changed. Bjorkman would have to be the prime suspect.”

    Perhaps his recent marriage has something to do with it, Chic. “Behind every good man there is a good woman.” So the saying goes.

  339. Gillian_Ruglonian says:

    John – too modest by half!

  340. Cuilean says:

    The ‘Scottish Daily Mail’ map significantly reduces the geographical size of Scotland; just like BBC & STV weather maps.

    I am so used to seeing this false perspective of a shrunken Scotland, that, on the rare occasions when I view a UK map correctly proportioned, it looks odd or wrong, even although I know it is correct.

    The power of MSM indeed!

  341. Robert Peffers says:

    @The Earthshaker says: 11 May, 2015 at 1:46 am:

    “As for Robert, I don’t even know where to start with your comment but if that’s what you sincerely believe good luck to you and for the record I don’t rate Leanne Wood and I’m not a member of Plaid Cymru.

    To what do you attribute my beliefs, Earthshaker? I don’t deal in belief, I deal in facts. I stated the evident facts of how the UK is funded. I state the obvious fact that Leanne Wood, (and I’m not putting the lady down), obviously hasn’t grasped how the UK is funded but her heart is in the right place.

    I already had gathered you were not either Plaid Cymru, nor rated Leanne Wood. Thing is that, if you too, cannot grasp the real facts of how the UK is currently run & funded you really are not playing with a full deck of cards. My point is that Wales, N.I. and Scotland are funded correctly, (on a per capita basis), in accord to the devolved functions they each have been given.

    That being so, if Wales is perceived as being underfunded, while actually being funded properly on that per capita basis, then the truth can only be attributed to the Welsh administration not performing so well as that of Scotland or N.I.

    By the way I’m a great admirer of Betsan Powys, former BBC Cmyru Political Editor, (now currently the Editor of Programmes for BBC Radio Cymru). A Very astute lady who knows a great deal about Wales and Welsh politics.

  342. Ken500 says:

    The same no of older and younger folk voted YES. (Demographically) Proportionately there are more older voters.

    Older voters were targeted with lies. That is not their fault. It is the fault of the liars who are now paying the price. Scaring people is not a long term effective political strategy.

    Wales, NI and Scotland have entirely different economies. NI is the most subsidised part of the UK. Wales is underfunded £1Billion. Scotland is self sufficient and more than pays it’s way. Westminster economic policies hold Scotland back.

  343. john king says:

    Gillian @ 8.10

    Try telling that to Irene, she thinks am a bawheed. 🙂

  344. Macart says:

    @ John King 7.14

    I’m willing to contribute a scraper and a pair of overalls just tae fun oot.

    I have the feeling he doesn’t do manual labour. 🙂

  345. Joemcg says:

    Hmm..seem to be a pattern here Troll=someone that you don’t agree with or don’t like their point. I get it now.

  346. Chic McGregor says:

    “Perhaps his recent marriage has something to do with it, Chic. ” Aye there is that possibility as well Bob, especially perhaps if they have decided to have kids.

    Bjorkman was a great player, but not especially good on clay as a singles player.

    However, in his doubles career, which in terms of standing and wins was even better, he enjoyed a lot of success on clay and with various partners over the years.

    My thinking is, whether by luck or by deliberate choice, his doubles partners were good clay players and how better to learn what makes a good clay player than to observe them from that closest of quarters.

  347. Fred says:

    Any word yet of the investigation into that Scottish Office email?

  348. Arbenigo says:

    Alba – help. People of Cymru (Wales) have been infiltrated and I worry for our futures.

    Being first language Welsh and UKIP (higher % than Plaid!) being openly anti Welsh language, I fear that I might have to bring them down by myself.

    I told people that we’d be ignored, as England would show it’s teeth and that Scotland would be stronger than ever. Unfortunately we have one national newspaper that is as welsh as the seats at a London Welsh rugby match – owned yet again by the London MSM. Everyone else reads the English editions! What hope do we have? 20% of the population is English, the valleys are more concerned about their fake tan intake and the others don’t even have an idea how they’re being manipulated and frankly have no idea what they’re voting for.

    Please help. Cymru.

  349. Arbenigo says:

    A note to earthshaker:

    The only way Wales can move forward is if everyone respects and accepts that it’s a bilingual country. The only language that has been imposed upon Wales is the English language, and if we as welsh speakers accept that English is just as much a part of this land as the native tongue, then the least the English speaking population could do is respect this and not try go out of their way to harm it.

    Of course, this does not happen, as this is an English attitude in Wales, the majority, the plantations – what I like to call Costa Del Sod everyone else’s culture.

  350. Andrew McLean says:

    Robert Peffers says:@6.57

    would like to see this document, as the Act of union 1707/ 1706 clearly states “That the Two Kingdoms of Scotland and England shall upon the first day of May next ensuing the date hereof and forever after be United into One Kingdom by the Name of Great Britain And that the Ensigns Armorial of the said United Kingdom be such as Her Majesty shall appoint and the Crosses of St Andrew and St George be conjoined in such manner as Her Majesty shall think fit and used in all Flags Banners Standards and Ensigns both at Sea and Land” I have read comment that states that the English parliament had supremacy, but cant find any actual statute, just because someone says a thing or a professor? writes it, wont make it true, any more than me writing that Bart Simpson is actually the president of the USA.

  351. Rock says:

    Dave McEwan Hill,

    “They are mostly three or four way contests in which the SNP has won elections on less than or about 40% of the vote and YES got that 40% at the Referendum.
    On most of them THREE unionist parties were campaigning for NO with high profiles.”

    How do you explain the fact that in the Labour “heartlands” where they used to have more than 50% of the vote and the THREE unionist parties with even higher profiles campaigning for a No vote, Yes won?

  352. Rock says:


    “That’s not their fault FFS it is OUR fault, we failed to convince, we failed to get our arguments across and we failed to engage enough.”

    I am beginning to understand why we lost the referendum.

    People like yourself wasted time and money to convince people who were and are beyond redemption: the 70% elderly British nationalists who will remain so until their dying days and the 90% selfish middle classes who will always put their self interest before anything else.

    If the Radical Independence Movement had more resources, they would probably have succeeded in securing a higher Yes vote because they were convincing the people who could be convinced.

    “Lawyers for Yes” – I wonder how many they managed to convince into voting Yes.

    Continue doing your thing, no one is stopping you.

  353. Rock says:

    ronnie anderson,

    “@ Rock as Thepnr say’s you go do your thing ,but do it elsewhere NOT ON WOS some of us younger old will continue to promote our cause without labeling people.”

    Do what you like Ronnie but may I gently remind you that this site doesn’t belong to you.

    Some posters on here, the usual suspects who seem to think that this site belongs to them, have developed the habbit of labeling anyone who doesn’t agree with their views as trolls.

    If these posters are as clever as they think they are, who is asking them to respond to the trolls? Or is it beyond their egos to not respond?

  354. Paula Rose says:

    Rock dear – are you going to sit in here on your own? Each of us works to our strengths – and we would all no doubt be surprised by the successes we have had.

    Lets all leave the labels for the shops.

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