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Wings Over Scotland


Foote replaced by Dick

Posted on February 19, 2018 by

Last week, just a day after we highlighted the disastrous sales collapse of the Daily Record during almost certainly the most tumultuous and eventful seven-year period in Scotland’s peacetime history, the paper’s editor-in-chief Murray Foote apparently took the Scottish newspaper industry by surprise by suddenly resigning his position.

(We’re sure, incidentally, this is entirely unconnected with the recent advertising of some senior media vacancies in Scottish Labour.)

Rival hacks dutifully issued a series of glowing tweets about what a smashing guy Foote was and how much he’d improved the paper during his 27-year tenure there in various positions, most recently editor-in-chief, group editor and deputy editor.

So even though Foote accused this site of “debasing public life” with “sewage politics, conspiracy theories, hatred and paranoia” when we forced his paper to reluctantly and belatedly correct a massive front-page lie, we thought we’d join in the salutes.

Because the Record has certainly come a long way since this extraordinary editorial leader on the eve of the 2007 Holyrood election that brought the SNP to power:

Murray Foote was deputy editor of the Record in 2007. And while we don’t know who penned the editorial, the magnificent bit in the end – where, after hundreds of words of “DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES VOTE FOR THE SNP IN THIS ELECTION THAT ONLY TWO PARTIES CAN WIN, YOU MORONS”, including the phrase “the only sensible vote is for Labour”, it says with a straight face that “we would not tell you which way to vote” – has his stamp all over it.

(Foote still oscillates between taking credit for the Record’s infamous eve-of-indyref “Vow”, and categorically denying all responsibility, depending on the weather.)

So we wish him well on the next part of his journey, whatever that may be.

We’d also ponder on where the Record might find itself in another 11 years, but to be honest, looking over those sales charts since Foote joined the paper, that’s a rather longer bet on its future than we’d like to make.

(From The Archives #7.)

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Camz

“Foote replaced by Dick”

Fnarr Fnarr!

bobajock

What does it say of the mainstream media in Scotland at least, that someone so massivley incompetent can ‘slide’ into a media spot at a branch office?

It says its over – and as noted, its going down fast.

frogesque

What a disgusting hate piece.

So glad it has gone well for them

winifred mccartney

I feel the same way about the Record as the people in Liverpool feel about the Sun.

Fred

It’s Torcuil Crichton I feel sorry for!

louis.b.argyll

Very good Rev,

The tone of the Record’s drivel is jaw-droppingly insulting to our nations intelligence.

The very last sentence from the editorial is also a beautiful example of irony.

Proud Cybernat

If the Daily Record high-heid-yins had any sense they’d look long and hard at why their paper is rapidly heading to irrelevance in Scotland. Perhaps that it fails to adequately represent the views of half the population might – just might – have had a big hand in it.

What you think, Dick? Still intent in writing that big long suicide note? Knock yourself out. Scotland won;t lose any sleep over your ultimate demise brought on by your own hand.

HandandShrimp

A remarkable editorial and way, way too long. I was gnawing my leg off with boredom half down. At least it didn’t have a picture of a gallows 🙂

The 2007 victory was a remarkable achievement. It was the very definition of swimming against the media tide.

I would imagine Foote will be Leonard’s man instead of the Mail chap.

Donald anderson

winifred mccartney says:
I feel the same way about the Record as the people in Liverpool feel about the Sun.

They Sun sold out the people of Liverpool and their football fans. The Daily Redcoat promotes the Old Firm divisions and sold out the people of Scotland.

Macart

“But we would not tell you which way to vote…”

OFFS! 😀 LOLMAGGEDON

No. No I mainly won’t forget Mr Foote’s contributions to Scotland’s current predicament. He certainly did his bit. Yes and what a contribution it was.

Probably not one you’d want to be remembered for.

Bob Mack

All parts of the body politik I suppose. Looking at your article Rev, it is actually astounding that this guy tells the electorate to forget about schools,hospitals,law,or who will run Scotland best. It is about no other factor in our daily life but the denial of a Nations independence.

In other words the SNP were going to do a better job,and he knew it. He was right on that score.

The job of any elected politician was to do exactly the things Mr Foote described as being irrelevant.

That is their Democracy not mine. Scottish politicians elected to do their best for the people of Scotland should do exactly that and I believe the SNP have done that very thing.

Mr Foote is clearly past his sell by date,just like this Union. They can March into obscurity together.

James Mills

Let’s hope that Mr Foote gets his wish and gets a job with ‘Scottish Labour’ -he might be as ‘successful’ there as he was at the Record !
(Admittedly , there is not so far to fall , though )

heedtracker

So a catastrophic failure, now heads for that juicy SLabour spindoc sinecure. The red tories sure can pick em.

Andrew Morton

‘The Ryder Cup is in the bag’

The lack of ambition is palpable.

‘Here’s a little trinket to distract you while Westminster loots your resources’.

Bob Mack

On another note, Richard Leonard wants to apologise to the women of Glasgow about their equal pay claim.

Wait for it, It was apparently lawyers who refused the claim. Now I have been around a few years, but I have never,ever heard of a lawyer acting without instruction from a client.

Lawyers give advice. You either accept that advice or reject it. Labour and Labour only whilst running the Council, decided in the case of women’s equal pay to stall and take it the legal route.

LEONARD IS A LIAR, and a poor one at that.

galamcennalath

Looks like the paper version of the DR will reach zero in 4-5 years. Someone will pull the plug before then.

Every democracy needs a free press to act as a mirror to society and to hold power to account. It is hard to imagine right now how iScotland will actually be able to create such a free press. We have very little to build from.

Anyone know what the situation is currently in other Nordic countries?

Calum McKay

A comic, published by sad comedians!

If it had gone with the people, supporting self determination whilst being radical and left of centre, it would be selling 300 000 and have the respect of a large swathe of the Scottish population.

Instead the record led and was mimicked by labour’s north british branch, i.e. it went down market, adopted right wing british nationalistic narrative, and tried to out sun the sun on hyperbole, sleaze and royals. labour’s north british branch later tried to out tory the tories on the union.

No surrender might get you an interview with the colonel, but it will not sell a single a copy of the record!

Tuck it behind other publications on the shelf!

Robert Peffers

I suppose a Foote in the mouth is a bit better than a — Err! Perhaps not!

Lennie

Sounds like a rant from one of the rabid WATP/GSTQ fraternity.

Cuilean

Incredible as it is to say this, but since 2014, I firmly believe the UK nationalist parties based in Scotland all actually WANT Scotland’s economy and people to fail.

It is a policy which has served all their parties well up until now. Their collective aim, aided and abetted by the media, is to destroy all confidence and pride in ‘brand Scotland’.

A cowed and frightened people are more likely to stick to the status quo, on the premise that, ‘If its bad now, how much worse off will we be if we are independent?’

It was a policy of scaremongering which worked in 2014.

But you can fool some of the people all of the time and all of the people some of the time but you can’t fool all of the people all of the time.

The UK nationalism lies and scaremongering will catch up with them all during indyref2.

Walter Scott

Could Foote be heading to Labour as communications director ? Hope so

Giving Goose

My cats have had a serious bowl problem of late, they appeared to be constipated.

I changed their food.

I changed where I fed them to see if that made a difference.

I kept them inside thinking that they were perhaps stressed by the local psycho tomcat.

Nothing worked, so I took them to the vet.
He examined them and couldn’t find anything physically wrong with them.

“How are you toileting them?” asked the vet.
“In a litter tray” I answered.
“What sort of litter are you using?”
“The Daily Record,” came the reply.
“Ah!” exclaimed the vet.
“There’s your problem. Cats are scrupulously clean creatures and no self respecting cat will shit on a Daily Record. Remove it and you’ll find that the cats will start pooing again, just like normal.”

I took the vet’s advice, removed the Daily Record and I have happy cats again.

Both are dropping bombs like it’s going out of fashion and everybody in my house is happy again, despite the smell.

The moral of this tail (no typo) is don’t line your cat’s litter tray with the Daily Record because cats don’t shite on shite!

Morag

I can see that graph at the bottom is a bit hand-knitted, but you know, contrary to most graphs with cropped axes that are doing it to exaggerate the message, that one would be even more effective if the y-axis went all the way to zero.

Seeing just how close the zero point is, in the historical context of the paper’s sales in the 1990s, would be quite powerful I think.

galamcennalath

Cuilean says:

the UK nationalist parties based in Scotland all actually WANT Scotland’s economy and people to fail

Agree completely. Strategic importance, the oil, the fish, a few key components they need. The rest they want to damage to discourage Indy.

‘If its bad now, how much worse off will we be if we are independent?’

It was a policy of scaremongering which worked in 2014.

That was what swung it. That, topped in the closing days with the Vow.

YES in IndyRef2 need to turn the tables completely. Take the initiative and make sure Brexit UK is seen as the scary risky option. And, Indy is seen as a solution and way forward.

jfngw

What an achievement, he helped to remove over 80% of his readership, must be due an honour surely. Maybe he is like Mr Leask who seems only too glad not to engage with ‘nationalists’. I obliged Mr Leask, by no longer buying the Sunday Herald, couldn’t stop the Herald as I never bought it.

Don’t buy any paper now, I just scan the headlines on the website (with ad-blocker), just to see what manufactured nonsense I’m supposed to be up in arms about. It’s normally just about how bad the SNP are and what a superwoman Davidson is.

geeo

Considering how that 2007 election went, for Labour and the Record, it is hard to believe that John “the seer” McTernan was not involved in sculpting that editorial !!

The giveaway that it is not the work of JM-T is the last bit, which is eerily correct…

…”but we would not tell you which way to vote, you’d only tell us where to get off” …..

McTernan would never have got such a stunningly accurate prediction right..

McTernan is also famous for the time he clapped eyes on RMS Titanic just before it left dock, and predicted..”i can tell by looking at it, that ship is NOT unsinkable, if it hits an iceberg it will tear the hull open and sink”

People laughed at Mr McTernan as the cinema staff led him away….but Big John knew what may ahead for Jack and Rose….!!

Petra

Well with the drop, rather nose-dive, in the sales of the Daily Liar it looks as though Foote’s done a grand job right enough. Wonder where he’s off to now? What he’ll jigger up next?

And jeezo where would you start? You’d be here all day dissecting and decimating Foote’s ‘extraordinary editorial leader.’

We could start with:…..

”We’ve begun to tackle the shameful sectarianism that for so long has been swept under the carpet.”

”Look around. New schools and hospitals are being built.”

……………………………………………..

O/T

I came across this Iain MacWhirter article in the Sunday Herald yesterday ‘Iain Macwhirter: Brexit has created havoc in Northern Ireland’.

It included the following comments:

..”But here’s the problem. Northern Ireland has already lost its status as an indivisible part of the United Kingdom. During the Northern Ireland peace process, the UK gave up its territorial claim to the province. It said it had “no selfish strategic or economic interest” in Northern Ireland and would accept the reunification of Ireland if the people of the North voted for it. The UK Government repealed the 1920 Government of Ireland Act to make this clear. The Irish Republic made a similar change to its constitution, abandoning its territorial claim. It now speaks only of “a desire for the peaceful political unification of the island subject to the consent of the peoples of Northern Ireland and Ireland”. This effectively turned the North into a stateless province – but it kept the peace for 20 years…”

link to heraldscotland.com

galamcennalath

OT but relevant to the wider picture …

link to rightsinfo.org

Robert Peffers

@galamcennalath says: 19 February, 2018 at 10:52 am:

“Anyone know what the situation is currently in other Nordic countries?”

Yes, galamcennalath, they all publish in Nordic languages and are thus almost as incomprehensible to the majority of Scots as the Daily Wrecker is. Strangely most of them have better circulation figures, though.

Bob Mack

@Petra,

Astonishingly there are articles in the media from leading Conservative figures , claiming that the Good Friday Agreement should be torn up as it is not working.

Exactly how or why they think they can get away with that with impunity amazes me.

Joemcg

That has got to be the most moronic editorial in world history. Immature,infantile,contradictory,no substance and just plain out and out lies. Just sums up Foote and his readership. The DR and the BBC are the number one enemies of Scotland.

Ottomanboi

I am of what some might label the extreme and ‘heretical’ opinion that Scotland may never become independent through the British ballot box alone. There seem to be just too many Scots tone deaf to the inspirational themes of independence. The banal strains of utilitarian ‘cost of everything value of nothing’ Britishness satisfy their taste. They are unlikely to develop an ear for a different tune.
Mr Torrance huxtering the dead horse notion of UK federalism in today’s Herald is symptomatic.
These people will, eventually, destroy Scotland, in both idea and substance. It may be their intention. Scotland isn’t England and that’s the core of the problem. If we want to succeed we need to ‘anglomorph’.
If you don’t believe that, ‘they’ will destroy you with lies, damned lies and propaganda.
We have a massive psychological as well as political problem in this country. I’m not sure the SNP, now a respectable establishment party of government, has the stomach to put the fear of God into that particular constituency and endure any consequences.
British unionism is a thorn in our Scottish side. The situation must be reversed. We need to develop sharp spines; just like the thistle.

galamcennalath

Robert Peffers says:

Strangely most of them have better circulation figures, though.

Just a wild guess, but that might be because they do their job by acting as a component of a democratic system.

[…] Wings Over Scotland Foote replaced by Dick Last week, just a day after we highlighted the disastrous sales collapse of the Daily […]

Jimbo

What a sad coincidence that the Daily Record’s crashing fall in popularity virtually coincides with the fall of Labour in Scotland (sarcasm).

Did the Record’s tendency to take their readers for fools drag Labour down with it, or was it the fall of the utterly incompetent Labour’s tendency to take the voters for fools that had a knock on affect for their propaganda rag?

Either way it’s a win-win situation for Scotland.

Thepnr

“Do you seriously believe Westminster will hand over oil revenues and still subsidise Scotland with the Barnet formula?”

Asks the editorial.

The Record obviously haven’t a clue about what Independence means.

galamcennalath

Norway’s highest circulation newspaper …

Aftenposten morgen
2016 147,728
2006 248,503
1996 283,915

Falling away, but not like the Daily Record.

However, what is impressive is the number of newspapers in Norway.

link to medienorge.uib.no

“Reporters Without Borders ranks Norway 2nd in its Worldwide Press Freedom Index, right after Finland. Freedom of the press in Norway dates back to the constitution of 1814. Most of the Norwegian press is privately owned and self-regulated; however, the state provides press support.”

link to en.m.wikipedia.org

Robert Peffers

@Ottomanboi says: 19 February, 2018 at 11:51 am:

“I’m not sure the SNP, now a respectable establishment party of government, has the stomach to put the fear of God into that particular constituency and endure any consequences.”

So you conclude it must all be that BAAAAD SNP party that we must blame then, Ottomanboi?

Sunniva

The bit that gets me is ‘we do not own this country. We are only guardians of it for some time’.

Proud Cybernat

O/T

Fraser Nelson of the Spectator telling us on Radio 2 that Scotland’s Free uni education system is failing because it is not attracting people from poorer backgrounds into Uni education and that the fee-paying English system is better.

WTAF!!

Petra

@ Bob Mack says at 10:50 am … ”On another note, Richard Leonard wants to apologise to the women of Glasgow about their equal pay claim. Wait for it, It was apparently lawyers who refused the claim. Now I have been around a few years, but I have never,ever heard of a lawyer acting without instruction from a client. Lawyers give advice. You either accept that advice or reject it. Labour and Labour only whilst running the Council, decided in the case of women’s equal pay to stall and take it the legal route. LEONARD IS A LIAR, and a poor one at that.”

Spot on Bob. I’ve already outlined some cases that I was involved in, in the the 1990’s, when individuals initiated Equal Pay cases against Strathclyde Regional Council through to the return of the Councils as such. The Labour Party was ruling the roost every step of the way, in particular Glasgow councillors. At one point, I heard that a number of Councils in Scotland wanted to resolve the issue and pay out, but GCC councillors said no.

I sat next to their cabal of many lawyers and the QC that they used from day one at Glasgow Tribunal (previously unheard of to use a QC at Glasgow Tribunals) to the Employment Appeal Court in Edinburgh, Court of Sessions in Edinburgh and the House of Lords. One of the cases was said to be the longest running Employment Law case in British history. How much did they pay Ian Truscott QC for that case alone?

link to advocates.org.uk

Their legal team wasn’t calling the shots at all. As you say LEONARD IS A LIAR. And just to add that the legal fees that they were forking out must have run into MANY millions, if not billions. A FoI request should be made to establish exactly how much the Labour Party squandered in relation to the many cases that the general public aren’t even aware of.

This is the party, Labour, that would rather pay lawyers and a QC than pay the Scottish workers that they exploited for decades …. right across Scotland. And to add insult to injury you’ve got people like Corbyn coming to Scotland bleating on about poverty-stricken children. Some of them might just be the children of the decent, hard workers that the Labour Party oppressed for nigh on 70 years: before and well after the Equal Pay Act 1970 came into force.

Dave McEwan Hill

Perhaps he w has resigned because he is refusing to pen any more of the shite he’s been instructed to do. It’s not the editor that is the major problem with these publications – it’s policy of their owners.

Good full page piece by Mhairi Black putting a big boot into Labour in today’s Record BTW

mogabee

Such a fitting tribute Stu. I commend your reluctance to go overboard with praise!

Now I cannot wait to see the first press release by SLabour’s new press/media guy…

Is my sarcasm too obvious there? 😀

gordoz

He has gone the way of all other Labour Stalwarts. I’m alright ‘Jack’!

(ie Me first, Labour Second, next Britain then the EU and finally Scotland the region ! / Wouldn’t say the Lords is out of the question either)

mike cassidy

Galamcennalath 10.52

Last year, “Reporters Without Borders” rated Norway as number one for press freedom.

Sweden and Finland came 2nd and 3rd.

link to archive.is

annie

@HandandShrimp
I believe the former DM guy Alan Roden is now on Kezie Dugdale’s staff rather than Labour Party.

Robert Peffers

@Thepnr says: 19 February, 2018 at 12:10 pm:

“The Record obviously haven’t a clue about what Independence means.”

Nor does the Record have a clue about what constitutes a subsidy nor do the have a clue of what the Barnett Formula is or does. Mind you those examples are not the full story for the Record just doesn’t have a clue about most other things either.

1 – As the Scottish Per capita GDP is more often than not larger than that of England, (even allowing for the strange creative accountancy of the Westminster Establishment0, as per capita GDP is a measure of the average revenue paid to the treasury my each person that means the truth is that Scots are subsidising every other country in the United Kingdom.

2 – The Barnett Formula has nothing whatsoever to do with, “Needs”, it reflects the transfer of Westminster powers from the United Kingdom Ministries to the devolved administrations and as these powers differ in each devolved administration then so does the transfer of funding from the United Kingdom Ministries to the devolved administration in order to fund the different powers devolved.

Thus it is a downright lie that Scots get a larger per capita funding than everyone else. In fact the biggest per capita funding is in Northern Ireland who have the most devolved functions.

Then there is the fairly obvious political prestidigitation that the claimed subsidy comes from, “English Tax Payers Money”, there is no, “English taxpayers money”, for all taxation is gathered on behalf of Her Majesty’s Treasury and there is no legally elected parliament of the country of England as England is directly funded and taxed as the United Kingdom as is the parliament and MPs that govern England.

In practice England and The United Kingdom are one and the same thing. The Record either knows nothing or the Record are deliberate liars.

Cubby

In Scotland’s history Foote will join the long list of tractors.

Macart

This really does need reading.

link to weegingerdug.wordpress.com

ScottieDog

Robert,
I actually think London is the highest funded part of the UK. It all comes down to the lies about tax v spend.
Everyone is brainwashed into thinking tax comes before spending, yet as prof Murphy has talked about and many progressive economists will attest to, taxation is only possible with spending.
Spending precedes taxes. Nowhere is that more stark than in the city of London. Of course tax revenues are high because that sector received a £1trillion bailout after 2007. (See national debt pre and post financial crisis)
Saying London provides is a bit like saying that a lotto winner is self-made.

As we saw through the bank of England’s QE programme, it is no more difficult for the central bank to up its balance sheet than it is to change the scoreboard at murrayfield.
What is far more valuable than central bank IOUs is energy and resources.

Paul Wilson

Amazing that there is still over 200,000 daft enough to buy this Red Tory Foreign owned English Published Rag!

Born Optimist

I think the Scottish printed media, more than the media anywhere else, illustrate the old saw that ‘people don’t own the media to inform the public; they own it to try and influence the public’.

In Scotland, the emphasis is clearly on TRY as their efforts are no longer as effective as they once were. Roughly half the population or more have seen through the deceit and misinformation and are now ‘out of tune’ with the media owners yet no effort is made to represent the varying views among members of the public. This willingness to lose sales and income, year after year, is probably the strongest possible evidence that the media is not serving the interests of Scots, regardless of their political orientation.

The picture is similar for the BBC. Until Scotland is independent or completely assimilated into Greater England this will not change, though even with the latter I would expect the media to continue serving the interests of the Establishment rather than the mass of the population.

Only with independence are we likely to develop a media akin to that operating in Norway or Finland.

With regard to who is Establishment and who is not, just remember how many ‘socialists’ and Lib/Dem MPs quite happily end up in the House of Lords. If you think they still represent you, think again.

Iain

Well done Mr Foote, here’s hoping you have the same success with your next job as the last one.
Keep up the good work!

wull2

It’s the family members I feel sorry for, if only they had told the tuith.

Peter McCulloch

Of course the daily stranger and Foote would never want anyone to vote on Labours record in Government.

That’s because its record down the decades has been appalling, communities suffered poverty and deprivation as Labour politicians did little about it as they advanced their careers and became wealthy.

liz

@Proud Cybernat – Fraser Nelson is a liar. He’s been shown evidence on several occasions that UCAS is not the only route to Uni.

Poorer children in Scotland tend to cope better either going into Uni via college or getting a degree at college.

He knows this but continues to lie.

The fact so many BritNat journalists feel the only way to preserve the union is by cheating, fear-mongering and lying, shows the paucity of their case

Patrick Roden

@ Paul Wilson,

It’s a lot less than 200,000 mate

Somewhere nearer 145,000 at the last count, and dropping by about 13%
in the last round of figures!

Be at Scotsman like sales in no time.

Robert Graham

Well silly me i did acutely read this , eh difficult to actually put a badge on it , was it a rant ? , was it good sensible advise ? , eh probably none of those .

While reading this load of junk my main observations were Lie- Nope – not true – labour didn’t do that ,Its a pity there wasnt a tick box next to every line of this rubbish , and as for Jack ,you know the one while in office managed to return some of the block grant to Westminster while piling on the debt with the only game in town PFI contracts .

This from supposedly intelligent people , god help us if these folk still have access to any kind of comment in the media , I doubt if so many people have ever been so misled by so few .A totally parallel universe these people inhabit .

Alastair

After a 27 year career at the DR rising to Editor in Chief, I doubt Murray will lose much sleep over all the angst and genuine upset we see in this thread. I guess he did what he was paid for, probably very handsomely as well. Money is a huge motivator and a key element in the destruction of principled positions, I still hold on to a few principles but then I’m as poor as the preverbial church mouse, so I can afford to.

Sometimes the bleedin obvious is not all it seems.

Nicola had a warm and friendly relationship with the former Editor, not surprising as he inherited a cracking sense of humour. And there was an upstairs window overlooking one of Dundees’ main arterial routes proudly displaying a Vote YES banner throughout the last referendum campaign, the thing is, that was once home to Murray Foote, and his Mum still lives there.

All of that said, I’m as disappointed as the rest of us who use and fund this site that the DR did what it did, and unlike some commentators I believe absolutely that the Scottish Media stole our freedom, the sales chart is heartening indeed.

If Leonards’ mouthpiece is to be Mr. Footes next port of call, then I refer you back to my earlier comment regarding principled positions. A less priveleged career path might have seen the same guy campaigning for an Independent Lochee.

schrodingers cat

i wonder if it was stus article on the drop in dr sales which was the final nail in foote’s coffin? i dont believe in such coincedences… it cant have helped

Cactus

A few quick observee’s:

“The clue is in the name, the Scottish NATIONAL Party.”

Ahhh, so they DID once know how to spell properly in times past.

“We do not own this country.”

Aye we do.

“…fit tartan carpets in Bute House.”

They mock Scotland’s very fabric, cringe factor, Warp Speed 11.

“You know where we stand. Shoulder to shoulder with Scottish Labour.”

See how sometimes at FMQ’s, when one of the back-benchers begins to ask the First Minister a question… if that back-bencher has a vested interest related to their question, they must first announce THAT vested interest before speaking.

SO, for the benefit of those that remain unaware (and in keeping things consistent) aye propose Dick should change their slogan to reflect this fact and aye move this motion:

Daily Record
“The newspaper that supports Labour in Scotland”

The People of Glasgow don’t want to buy a hate rag.

Every issue printed is a Labour in Scotland PPB.

Cuilean

I can’t stop re-reading that bat shit loony 2007 Record article! To think it was penned just over 10 years ago!

How Scotland has changed since 2007. Such a short time! So many seismic political events:

1. The 2007 SNP win at Holyrood.
2. The 2011 SNP win at Holyrood.
3. The 2014 Indyref.
4. The 2015 SNP win at Westminster.
5. The 2016 SNP win at Holyrood.
6. The 2016 Brexit Referendum.
7. The 2017 SNP win at Westminster.

The 2007 article begins with a direct order to its readers, ‘Do not vote for Alex Salmond today’.

And in concluding it blatantly lies ‘But we would not tell you which way to vote’. Just how stupid did they think we were? Just how Stupid do they still think we are?

Off the scale stupidity but SLAB’s entitlement and arrogance oozes out of every 2007 MSM sentence and continues to the present day.

How meet has been SLAB’s demise since 2007.

Little did Foote know he was penning SLAB’s swan song.

Dear God! How this party, crammed with Steerpikes, fooled us all for so long.

Yet BBC Scotland’s sole aim is to return Scotland to this 2007 pitiful level of political awareness.

Go back to sleep, Snow White! Keep dreaming, Cinderella! Ignore that man behind the curtain, Dorothy & Toto!

Well, Scotland is awake. Wide awake, to our MSM charlatans & snake oil sellers.

Robert Burns wrote

Thus bold, independent, unconquer’d, and free,
Her bright course of glory for ever shall run:
For brave Caledonia immortal must be;
I’ll prove it from Euclid as clear as the sun:
Rectangle-triangle, the figure we’ll chuse:
The upright is Chance, and old Time is the base;
But brave Caledonia’s the hypothenuse;
Then, ergo, she’ll match them, and match them always.

Our Chance and our Time will always be there for us to seize. None of this, ‘once in a generation’ uk nationalists’ piffle.

Dr Jim

The first line reads *Do not vote for Alex Salmond* then they say *We wouldn’t tell you which way to vote*

They’re the same now as they were then, they can’t even write a few lines of a coherent argument without mixing themselves up with their own lies, and that’s the insulting behaviour they’ve always displayed to their readers

The Daily Record betting on the stupidity of the people who buy their paper

Seems their are less and less stupid people in Scotland eh
so in a way the Daily Record is a success

Legerwood

Proud Cybernat says:
19 February, 2018 at 12:19 pm
O/T

“”Fraser Nelson of the Spectator telling us on Radio 2 that Scotland’s Free uni education system is failing because it is not attracting people from poorer backgrounds into Uni education and that the fee-paying English system is better.

WTAF!!””

……….

UCAS published their annual report on University admissions about a week to 10 days ago. Throughout the report they repeatedly made the point that pretty well one third of applicants to Scottish Universities do not go through UCAS.

What the report also showed, although newspapers somehow failed to mention was that the gap between applications from more advantaged students and the less advantaged was closing.

UCAS converted all the UK applications to a common measure of disadvantaged/advantaged and looked at the situation over the past 12 years for each of the 4 parts of the UK. What they found when this was done was that, for Scotland, the percentage of applicants from disadvantaged areas had increased from 9.6% in 2006 to 17.2% or so in 2018. Around 80-85% increase. In Wales and NI it is around 40% or less.

The ratio of applications from The most advantaged areas to the most disadvantaged areas in 2006 was 4.5 to 1. So the most advantaged areas were 4.5 times more likely to apply to uni compared to the least. In 2018 that ratio is now 2.6 to 1 and this narrowing of the ratio is due to the increase in applications from the most disadvantaged areas.

Fraser Nelson could not be more wrong.

The Isolator

I for one will be tramping the dirt down when this rag finally turns to dust.As with the British /Scottish Labour Party it’s just another enemy of the people of Scotland.

Dan Huil

Foote; the ugly, bloated face of British nationalism.

galamcennalath

I love the last paragraph of …

link to theneweuropean.co.uk

“Boris Johnson is 53 years old.”

… coming on 11.

admiral

“Alastair says:

19 February, 2018 at 1:56 pm

After a 27 year career at the DR rising to Editor in Chief, I doubt Murray will lose much sleep over all the angst and genuine upset we see in this thread.”

I wonder how long it will be before he gets his knighthood for “services to Scottish journalism”.

In other words, services to the London Establishment, to you and me.

admiral

galamcennalath says:

19 February, 2018 at 3:01 pm

I love the last paragraph of …

link to theneweuropean.co.uk

“Boris Johnson is 53 years old.”

… coming on 11.

Are you sure they’ve not mixed up his age with his IQ?

call me dave

Slow news day but the English are affected by worries over education fees.

Archived this from aunties web site but the comparison graphs are missing. 🙁

Scotland was not included on graphs but got in near the end of the piece. 🙂

link to archive.is

Meanwhile North of the wall:

“The rocks will melt with the sun before tuition fees are introduced in Scotland”.

Alex Salmond

Clwyd Jones

“But we would not tell you which way to vote…” that line is comedy gold. The biggest laugh I’ve had since I watched a slabber trying to explain slab position on Brexit.

Calum McKay

Cuilean:

“the uk nationalist parties based in Scotland all actually WANT Scotland’s economy and people to fail”

Yes absolutely, this is the colonists strategy.

A people with no confidence and who can be sold (via record, bbc, STV et al) that they are economically dependent on the colonists (England), will seek to hand their security and fortunes onto another.

Clyde shipyards is the classic example – you see how red and blue tories are two sides of the same coin!

Add some placemen and women (davidson, darling, brown, mcconnell and dugdale) into the mix who turn patriotism on its head to say “we are shite they are great”, lets stay with them – hey presto you have the uk!

Very logical to support the status quo if you are not prepared, or if it has not dawned on you to probe or question ask, “why do you want to look after us”?

Scotland used to be part of the pack preying on other, e.g. India, Canada and South Africa, etc, now we are the preyed upon and some don’t even realise it!

jfngw

Never listen to Fraser Nelson, the house Scot, or half-educated tenement Scot if he listens to his betters. The epitome of the Scottish cringe, being told you are too thick to hold a high position in the UK and lapping it up.

Robert Peffers

Things seem a bit slow today so it may be a chance to post something to make folks think.

On The Subject of Per Capita GDP, (and Why it is more important than just GDP).
First we need a definition of just what is GDP and what is Per Capita GDP.
These definitions are, respectively:

GDP, (Gross Domestic Product):-

“Gross domestic product (GDP) is a monetary measure of the market value of all final goods and services produced in a given period (quarterly or yearly) of time. Nominal GDP estimates are commonly used to determine the economic performance of a whole country or region, and to make international comparisons.”

Per Capita GDP:-(GDP per person):-

“Per capita GDP is used as a measure of any given area region or country’s standard of living.

Per Capita GDP is thus a measure of average income per person in a country:”

Thus a list that only compares the total GDP of countries would obviously tend to have the biggest countries topping the list. So the USA would top the list and be followed by China.

Until the proposed BRUKEXIT the United Kingdom’s two kingdoms that between then contain four countries would have come in at sixth.

However simple GDP only measures the overall size of the countries economy and not how rich the whole country is because if a country has a big economy, but has lots of people to share the wealth between, then each person is poorer on average.

Per Capita GDP or GDP per person shows the wealth of a whole nation or indeed any particular area. but be careful that what is being compared are actually comparable. Obviously comparing the country of Scotland with the financial, “City of London”, is a bit of a kid-on.

A small country with not very many people in it may be much more productive, or have lots more natural resources, and manufacturing and service ways to create wealth, and so rank much higher up the list of Per Capita GDP.

Thus it is the Per Capita GDP the Scottish government have quoted as part of the past referendum debate. Scotland, with its relatively small population, would actually rank 14th in the world according to a table produced by the OECD – (The Organisation for Economic Co-Operation and Development), but even the OECD figures do not even come close to the real measure of the Scottish true Per Capita GDP and the reason for that discrepancy is not too hard to find.

The United Kingdom Westminster Establishment are past masters of, “Creative Accounting”, that, if done by a professional Accountant would see the accountant serving a very long prison term. There are far too many of such Westminster operated Creative Accountancy schemes to provide a detailed list here but I can mention just a few to illustrate the point.

First is the way that the, “United Kingdom”, legally a two partner United Kingdom formed by a Treaty of Union between the two equally sovereign kingdoms of the Kingdom of Scotland and the, three country, kingdom of England. The resultant United Kingdom is thus legally a bipartite United Kingdom of equals but has always operated as the continued parliament of the country of England but that actual parliament was legally permanently ended on the last day of April 1707 and no one has been elected as a member of a parliament of either the country or the Kingdom of England ever since.

Thus only England, now that the United Kingdom is divided up as individual countries under devolution, is legislated for as being the United Kingdom under only English law. Only the country of England is funded directly as The United Kingdom and thus the powers devolved by Westminster are illegally the sovereign powers of the country of England even although there is no legal transfer of the people of Scotland’s legal sovereignty to the Westminster Parliament and such a transfer is specifically legally subject to Article 19 of the Treaty of Union that lays down both legal systems must remain independent in perpetuity.

So there is the first scam by which Westminster gathers the entire revenues of the United Kingdom and uses Block Grants that Westminster calculates to fund the devolved administrations and claims that they subsidise everyone else with English taxpayers money that is actually United Kingdom taxpayer’s money. i.e. we get a portion of our own generated revenues back. But it doesn’t stop there.
The next creative accountancy scam is the way that Westminster chooses to account the entire United Kingdom’s exports not by the country that produces it but by which port, airport or Chunnel that it leaves the United Kingdom from, and Westminster takes great care that these routes almost exclusively are from England and that applies even to such as, “Scotch”, Whisky that, (By the EU Laws), can only be produced in Scotland. It isn’t difficult for Westminster to discourage Scots, Welsh and N.I. exporting ports and airports while encouraging ever more English development.

Not to mention that the Chunnel may soon be subjected to import/export charges on the French side of the Channel. I’ll mention two more – Against all the market rules of supply and demand where the supplier of a scarce commodity can demand the best price for its goods Westminster operates the Electricity Grid Connection Scheme. By this they not only charge the suppliers of electricity more per kilowatt they add into the National Grid by the further distance they are from the most demanding consumers of the energy in and around London but they actually also subsidise those generators in and around London.

Then there is the Crown Estate incomes and the two crowns may rest upon the one person’s head but as Queen of Scots her Majesty is not legally sovereign under Scots law and thus those Crown Estate incomes belong to the people of Scotland and not to the crown of England.

Note that every oil, gas and other infrastructure installation around the Scottish coastline legally belongs to the legally sovereign people of Scotland and every drop of oil & gas revenue within the Scottish territorial waters and the Scottish continental shelf goes to the Treasury and is accounted as, not from Scotland, but from, “United Kingdom Extraregio Territory”.

Now do you see the big picture>

yesindyref2

Ah, I get it, next will be Mouth. They’re all in it together.

Dan Huil

@Robert Peffers 3:41pm

One of your best, Robert.

Fred

Wouldn’t make Fanny of the Week though! 🙂

Fred

That relates to Robert’s earlier post!

Dr Jim

A £ spent in Croyden is better than a £ spent in Strathclyde

Boris Johnson

Robert J. Sutherland

Instead of looking back over a litany of failure (both political and journalistic), I’m going to try to look forward. Because we could all benefit from decent journalism, which does need an outlet, and arguably still one in cold print.

If the decline of the DR is at least in part because of its Labourite owner’s (Trinity Mirror Group) unfortunate association with the inept and lacklustre NorthBritLab outpost, all too well reflected in the article quoted by Stu before it’s well-deserved fall from grace (correction:) power, since it was never graceful, ever, surely the inevitable conclusion to draw is that the paper would do better for its readership if it were to begin to reflect the realities of life in Scotland instead of continuing to pander to clearly-failed Labour fantasies?

It is the ever-widening disconnect between the fictions of the so-called newspapers (of all mainstream political stripes) and the realities observed by people that is surely accelerating their demise.

So despite everything, not least that dastardly Vow, let’s try not to be too mean-spirited, and simply ask: what hope for the Daily Record under new management? Will the piper still be playing the owner’s tired old dirges, as DMH appears to expect, or will there be something from a new and better songbook?

Andy-B

Pity Foote left the Daily Record, he was taking it in the right direction in my opinion down.

For when the Record lied over the Vow, it deserved nothing less. I have no sympathy for Foote, the Record help secure a no victory, now look at the mess we’re in over Brexit etc.

galamcennalath

“On Brexit, do the Tories think they can simply ignore Scotland?”

link to prospectmagazine.co.uk

I don’t think they have taken their eye off Scotland, I think they are just pretending to. It’s part of wide BritNat policy to pretend there is no Scotland. Behind closed doors I believe they think a lot about Scotland.

Some say the unexpected election last year was specifically called to put a spoke in the SG’s wheel. There is merit in that theory.

I am certain maintaining their Union is more important that how they deliver Brexit.

One possibility is that they are prevaricating over the Brexit deal because they know if they announce something too hard, IndyRef2 will descend upon them! They may be trying to engineer the timing.

ronnie anderson

Might be the next editor of the Judy lol don’t ask it’s woman thing lol

ScottieDog

With all the very worrying propaganda by the tories saying the good Friday agreement has failed, the most genuinely sensible thing would be for England to secede from the union. Just think they would no longer have to ‘subsidise’ us.!
Of course not one politician has suggested that.

call me dave

@ronnie anderson

🙂 Aye or maybe ‘Punch’

Jings! Twiddling thumbs… washing done …tea prepared..Ho Hum!

Proud Cybernat

BREAKING:

Pete Wishart
?
Verified account

@PeteWishart
5h5 hours ago
More
I will not be standing to be the Depute Leader of the SNP. A short statement.

Hamish100

So what job has Murray got with the labour party? What about the other hingers on?

galamcennalath

Pete Wishart

“After listening very carefully to the response to my agenda I have decided that I do not believe that I have sufficient support within the party and I will not now be standing for the post of Depute Leader”

link to petewishart.wordpress.com

His “agenda” sunk like a lead balloon!

gordoz

Picture brings back memories of David Hayman’s Pitiless Storm
right enough.

Training Day

Y’know, on my darker days I sometimes think that other countries around the world are never going to take advantage of Westminster’s extraordinarily generous subsidy handouts. It’s to the credit of Scots that we’ve recognised their largesse and benefited accordingly. It’s not our fault if Jonny Foreigner cannot and will not see the milk and honey that will accrue to them if they link in to Westminster.

Brian Powell

Foote may be gone but Clegg is still there.

yesindyref2

@RJS
I totally agree with you. The Record has been getting better, and if it could make itself balanced, and more factual, it could do well, and it would be good for Scotland. Same goes for Scotsman and of course Herald. And all it needs is good journalism and editors that concentrate on news and old-fashioned reporting, not just repeating party releases.

Vestas

@ galamcennalath 4:52 pm :

“His “agenda” sunk like a lead balloon!”

Indeed but at least he’s ready to acknowledge it.

If this was any party other than the SNP he’d be hanging on to the bitter death, “briefing” against others, knowing he’s scoring brownie points with someone senior 🙂

Thepnr

Re Pete Wishart

I’m not a member of the SNP so I have no influence on who will become deputy leader. What does stand out though is the quality of the elected members that the SNP have comapred with the other parties.

Just of the top of my head in addition to the above whom I both respect I can think of the likes of Jeane Freeman, Dr Phillipa Whitford, Johanna Cherry, Tommy Shepherd, Ivan McKee, Humza Yousef etc. ect. and many more.

Compare with the “quality” put forward for the SLab leadership contest. Just imagine the standard of candidate that the Tories or Lib Dems could provide as a new leader, it doesn’t bear thinking about looking at their current leaders

Talk about a gulf! The quality of choice between elected members of the SNP and the other parties is wider than the Atlantic.

Only Me

TL;DR 🙂

Andy-B

Foote’s successor, at least has a sense of humour.

“Dick said: “It is an incredible honour to be asked to lead the finest group of journalists in the country.”

“There is no bigger job in the Scottish media and while the industry faces challenges we have an outstanding team which will ensure a bright future.”

link to pressgazette.co.uk

Sinky

Just come into a very political anti SNP rant from one Jeff Williams from Central Fire Brigade on BBC Radio Scotland over fire fighters who are getting a 20% pay rise for extending their roles to meet 21st century requirements.

Highland Wifie

I haven’t bought a DR since 1981. No glimpse of one since then has ever persuaded me to change my mind.
I think we could borrow some of Murray’s lines from above though (with a bit of artistic licence).

‘It’s about who will run Scotland best’
‘When you vote today, think about the kind of country you want to leave for your children.’
‘Do you want (Teresa May) to gamble with their future?’
‘We cannot afford to be seduced by (her) half truths and false promises.’
‘Vote for Scotland’s future.’

Well said Murray!

Proud Cybernat

“His “agenda” sunk like a lead balloon!”

Which means Wishart’s “hold, hold – wait ’til after 2021” is a BIG no-no. It would have been electoral suicide for the SNP to hold off Indeyef2 until after next SEs. To have had such a delay would also have ensured our EU citizens would have lost right to vote in IR2.

IR2 is rising on the horizon, peeps!

Robert J. Sutherland

Thepnr @ 17:16,

You are so right there.

And the sooner we get those good folk among them free from mouldering down in the Westminster Mausoleum and back up here with the rest of us, the better.

(Just imagine a world without WM elections ever again!)

yesindyref2

I still wonder if Pete Wishart wasn’t just throwing some itching powder into the Indy movement to stir things up, I’d like to think so.

Jack collatin

Well we have a Dick in charge of the North British Branch, a Dick in charge of the Daily Record, and a Wullie in charge of the Lib Dems.
Any chance that The Red Tries have a Boaby lurking behind the photocopier?
The Record is a sleazy wee bums and tits, Ranjurs and Sellick, Sopranos-glorifying gangster rag.

A lurid little bum wipe of a rag.
PFI contracts, McConnell giving back over £1 billion because he couldn’t find anything to spend it on..
What an astoundingly evil little editorial on oh so many levels.
He’ll do well as that other Dick, ‘The Scarf’ Leonard’s lap dog.
They are slowly dying off by degrees.
I hope all those Corbynistas who were mug enough to donate to this lot of Never Weres are happy that there money is beibg so wisely spent, financing failures.

Winifred McCartney

For the many so long as you are one of us: Corbyn’s son works for McDonnell (50K) McCluskey’s daughter works for Corbyn (40K) McDonnell’s son works for Corbyn (50K). I know mp’s not supposed to hire family members now but just swap around and that makes it alright according to labour and I have no doubt others.JC has the nerve to talk about austerity when labour councils are firing classroom assistants and we all know about labour GCC not paying equal pay – it was labour who paid thousands to make sure they did not get the equal pay they were entitled to, but labour still dares to talk about child poverty.

Sarah Smiths husband works for the Halo Trust and apparantly is paid more than the FM. Angelina Jolie left the Halo trust because their top people were taking £500 a day plus expenses. There should be an investigation into these ‘charities’ paying such ridiculous salaries and just who is getting these jobs.

Bobp

What a lying useless only fit for cat litter tray rag. What person with a modicum of intelligence would buy this a”””wipe.

wull2

Vote no to stay in EU.
Labour saying, vote tory to keep out the SNP.
The people have woken up to the fibs.
Vote SNP or YES, nothing else.

velofello

The Vow was a most disgusting piece of treachery. Whether he wrote or not, Foote published it, and for that he is condemned, a House Scot.And what has he gained? Career failure and a few shillings in compensation no doubt.I do hope he joins SLAB, that will notch up another career failure for him.

liz

@yesindyref2
That’s an interesting point.

Maybe he was showing the other ‘contenders’ that folk want a shot at indyref2 and not a continuation of the status quo.

It could be that SNP HQ are beibg too cautious.

I have heard that Joanna Cherry takes no prisoners and speaks her mind to those at the top.

Robert Graham

o/t it’s on the BBC website so it’s gospel honest and no laughing at the back please .

The electoral commission has opened a investigation into LIB -DEM spending during the last election campaign ,I guess the outcome will be published by 6 .00 PM it’s 5.57 right now .

call me dave

It won’t be the thinning ranks of Dick Leonard Union followers banging the drums among the work forces of the Teachers, Fire Brigade along with some NHS workers by any chance?

Or has all that kind of thing stopped years ago. I mean there is more than one way to keep Scotland struggling when you are out of power and have no policies that are worthwhile.

Must stop watching all these conspiracy theory films. 🙁

Hamish100

one of the worst interviews yet from bbc scotchland. Mhairi Stuart interviews an ex fire chief from central Scotland (obviously didn’t get the main job) Complains about the 20% proposed wage rise with catches!!!– och no 20% you just get for nothing. Complains over whats happening since 2002/3 — Scottish snp government is at fault– big fire in a car park in England proves the point!! Dear old Mhairi keeps him going. No questions of substance , everything is bad. Apparently the fire union should dictate what’s needed.
What a set-up. Don’t listen if you have heart or blood pressure issues. Reeks labour party. Incidentally no one from the snp to comment. Were they asked?

mike cassidy

Talking of things media

For those suspicious of BBC taxpayer money being used to subsidise newspapers

The NUJ has this to say about redundancies at the Trinity Mirror group.

” It said that while Trinity Mirror was “orchestrating these brutal cuts to their own workforce” they were also receiving public money to recruit 64 Local Democracy Reporters as part of the Local News Partnership between the BBC and News Media Association.

“The union is extremely concerned that Trinity Mirror may be using this public subsidy to plug the gaps created by getting rid of their own employees,” said a spokesperson. “

link to archive.is

Craig P

I love the exhortation not to cast judgement on Labour for Tony Blair because Gordon Brown is galloping in on his white charger to save us.

That worked out well.

yesindyref2

OT
One of the things I heard from NO voters in Indy Ref 1 was that they might have voted YES if they’d been told the risks and uncertainties, in other words if YES had been totally honest with them, as they knew there’d be pros and cons. Being told all would be rosy, they checked things out and found there were problems, and so distrusted YES almost as much as they mistrusted Better Together who they thought were rubbish with their Project Fear.

Reminds me of a personal story, in a previous life I hawked ny skills as a freelance, and there was one contract when I talked over the phone, I didn’t think I had the right skills and told them that. No they said, you’re right for the contract. More talk and again I said I thought they needed another type of skill, and the answer was that if I didn’t have all the skills I’d be more motivated. Don’t get me wrong, by the way, like everyone else my CV was, errrr, exaggerated a little, I was well used to a little “bluff” (and frantic reading in the first week or so).

The long and short of it is that it did sound very interesting and challenging, and after me being totally open with them they offered me the contract over the phone without a face to face, paid me a retainer for a month (half pay) as they weren’t ready to take me, and it was one of the best contracts ever.

Truth won.

schrodingers cat

galamcennalath says:
19 February, 2018 at 4:21 pm

One possibility is that they are prevaricating over the Brexit deal because they know if they announce something too hard, IndyRef2 will descend upon them! They may be trying to engineer the timing.
———————–

I think you may be right, if negotiations finish at the end of sept, i can see westminster stringing out the commons vote until feb2019.

the window to run indyref2 before the uk officially leaves on 29th march is narrowing

galamcennalath

If this had been in the Express I would thought it nonsense, however, Bloomberg is a reputable source.

“Prime Minister Theresa May’s team has drawn up a secret plan to withhold billions of pounds in Brexit bill payments in order to force the European Union to give the U.K. the trade deal it wants.”

Seriously? They are reneging on what was supposed to have been agreed in Phase 1?

link to archive.is

Legerwood

O/T
Ch4 news going big on drug deaths in Scotland – Dundee in particular

ben madigan

@galamcennalath who says:

“Prime Minister Theresa May’s team has drawn up a secret plan to withhold billions of pounds in Brexit bill payments in order to force the European Union to give the U.K. the trade deal it wants.”

Doubt if that will happen.
The EU is busy translating the phase 1 agreements (sufficient progress) and sorting out the “insufficient progress bits” into legal terms that the UK will have to sign up to.

If the UK doesn’t sign on the dotted line -no further progress until they do!

If they do sign up with Jesuitical “mental reserves” along the lines of “we’re not going to do this anyway” the UK will find itself 1)up in some International Court for breach of treaty and 2) unable to sign an agreement with any other country anywhere in the world

Bill McLean

I’m glad Foote has legged it!

Jockanese Wind Talker

It is blame the foreigners time @galamcennalath says at 6:58 pm

“Seriously? They are reneging on what was supposed to have been agreed in Phase 1?”

Looks like it.

1. Brexit bill payments

2. EU Citizens rights

3. Irish Border

Phase 1 was to prevent collapse of Government before the EU Withdraw Bill got to the Lords.

Hard Brexit imposed on plucky Bwitain by Beastly Bwussels and no transition period.

Nae doot the Blitz spirit will have to see us all through (well it’ll have to see the man/woman in the street through ‘cos they ain’t Millionaire members of the Establishment.

starlaw

The date of the next Indy ref may not be as important as some of us seem to think. Scotland has also been holding talks with the EU, we have no Idea what is going on, EU will not discuss Brexit with the Scottish Gov. but may well be holding talks on a hypothetical Independent Scotland some time after Brexit.

artyhetty

Re;Indyref2@6.42
O/T

I can see what you mean, but the SNP did not tell any untruths, ie lies. They tried to put a positive spin on what would definitely be a positive outcome for Scotland. They were up against it, and s**t sticks as they say. The whole of the media, the Britnat establishment, no doubt security services aka UK, and even those last minute like Obama who should have stayed out of it, as well as Betty, all people who had some major inflience on soft no voters.

After 300 years it was hard for people not to follow the negative, too stupid, no money, too small narrative.

(And no, don’t bother trying to be positive about Brexit, Britnats who read our posts, it won’t work. Boo hoo. ).

The reason the Britnats are terrified now, is because no matter what they say, their lies, false flags and fakse promises just will not wash with voters at all, other than a few clinging to their UKOK.

It will be a different kettle of fish next time, so much has changed, and so much will change for the worse, much worse, if we stay in the UK. People are not daft, just brainwashed, so our job is to unbrainwash them, and it’s working! 🙂

Artyhetty

Re, Jockanese wind talker and all

So leaving the EU without a deal then? It could be any day, it’s fckd up to say the very least. Has May and her pals been emboldened by having wee talks with dodgy governments around the globe? Put nothing past them. UK, and especially Scotland, going, going, gone! Sold to the man at the back, oops, the men at the back! Humans rights? Eh? What on earth do you mean, no such thing, never heard of such nonsense!

Oh you could laugh if it wasn’t all so freaking serious!

Ps I signed a petition yesterday to stop a new fabby doo doo open cast coal mine getting the go ahead, in er, Durham, England. The Chinese gov are doing a grand job of cutting their carbon footprint, reducing coal, but shifting it around the globe. Not saying this is their doing, but this kind of thing could well be a trend, lovely jubbly eh.

yesindyref2

@artyhetty
Yes, and that’s strangely the problem. It’s the same for us. Take currency union, night of the Ref they had Mark Carney and Danny Alexander on standby in case the pound plummeted, clearly a reason it’s unlikely a formal currency union would have actually been refused. We know that but others don’t, so it was practically impossible for us to really “admit” the possibility it wouldn’t happen.

Or the EU, specially considering Kirsty Hughes now, and EU spokespeople. We would have to formally apply, but it’s unlikely meantime we’d be actually out the single market and customs union, some sort of transition would be arranged. Again, we believe that so can’t really accept the possibility that it might not happen, that we get slung out in the cold for 5 years. Don’t be daft is what we’d say.

But somehow we have to find a way to openly accept these risks, and make them a part of YES 2. Perhaps the way is to get some undecided and soft noes as part of the YES movement, a group something like “I’m not YES” or “I don’t know about YES” groups, to go out and do their stuff!

I have not the slightest idea how that could be made to come about.

Robert J. Sutherland

galamcennalath @ 16:21,

I’m not sure if the hardline Brexiteers do give a damn about us. We are the troublemakers of the EU troublemakers.

The more mainstream types do probably have more care. For access to the free resources if nothing else.

schrodingers cat @ 18:55,

I don’t buy this “window” argument, at least in the very narrow sense you appear to mean it. UKGov do not have a free hand, as I think you forget. The EU27 will have to have a clear deal to formally validate in around Sep of this year, and they are not in the least amenable to some kind of UKGov prevarication, much as Mayhem & Co might wish it.

On the contrary, the EU27 seem to be increasingly fed up with all the UK confusion. May’s new attempt to implicitly threaten them with a withdrawal of funds or security co-operation is backfiring. I forsee a hardening of the EU27 line, not a softening.

Besides, there just has to be a point at which we start to impose our own timetable instead of always bending to someone else’s. We up here on the sidelines can’t just drift on hoping that things will align in our favour by some kind of happy accident.

We need to be far more assertive than that, if we are ever to progress and win the necessary 5-10% over to our side. Who will believe in us if we look too much like self-doubters who don’t have sufficient nerve to ever make a move?

Thankfully, there seem to be a substantial number of SNP members and yessers who do understand that.

Robert J. Sutherland

Back on topic, history has already turned that DR party promo into something of a joke.

For example, one can only wonder how James Kelly MSP and Co. can possibly measure up these days to the DR’s then earnest assurance that NorthBritLab has “begun to tackle the shameful sectarianism that has so long been swept under the carpet”.

The very same people who have now descended into desperately lifting all the stones they can find in the hope they can uncover enough dodgy voters to rally to their failing cause. In uneasy competition/co-operation with the once-despised Tories.

Which NorthBritLab booster could possibly make that claim and be taken seriously today? Or indeed pretty much any of the rest? No wonder the DR is struggling now. It can’t find enough credible faff to fill its pages!

Scot Finlayson

Murray Foote has done more for The Daily Record in effing off than he ever done as editor,

probably asked by boss of Trinity mirror,

“how are you going to reverse the catastrophic decline in DR readership”

jokingly Murray says “well over 50% of Scots hate me so me leaving could only help”

Trinity, ” resignation accepted “.

Jock McDonnell

I can’t believe the uk gov is inept on brexit.
Not the tories, they are not dumb. They know what they are doing.
They know what the parameters of brexit are & what they can negotiate.
They just can’t admit it.
It’s all about stringing us along as others above have said.
The only thing that they worry about is whether they can get over the line before events or public perception turn against them.

Thepnr

I think most folk reading wings know that “The Herald” is the longest running national newspaper in the world and was started in 1783 as a weekly.

What might not be so well known is that from 1837 to 1964, the then “Glasgow Herald” was owned by George Outram & Co. and was the first daily newspaper in Scotland from 1858 after changing from a twice weekly.

George Outram an Edinburgh advocate was the newspapers editor from 1837 and remained so for 19 years, ultimately becoming a proprietor. The kicker though is that he was also a Scottish Nationalist:

Outram was an early Scottish nationalist, a member of the National Association for the Vindication of Scottish Rights.

The Glasgow Herald, under Outram, argued that the promised privileges of the Treaty of Union had failed to materialise and demanded that, for example, that the heir to the British throne be called “Prince Royal of Scotland”.

“Any man calling himself a Scotsman should enrol in the National Association,” said The Herald.

link to en.wikipedia.org

Changed days for the Herald indeed!

Daisy Walker

Some thoughts.

I was trying to second guess the establishments game plan a while back. I really believed that when NS called Indy Ref 2, they would take the wind out of our sails with an EU Ref 2, which this time round they would win – hence nullifying any justification for our Ref2.

It appeared to me that the big money can do EU in, out and every which way in between, and still make money (carving up the public services) on Austerity max, or Austerity slow.

What was and is essential is to keep Scotland’s resources, maximise every penny and every drop of the oil, then fall back (eventually with the tax payers money/investment) on the renewables and the water.

But then events moved on, and in addition to what appears to be the EU providing WM with enough rope to hang itself, and every day having less and less chance to withdraw S50 and back out, I learned about the vast quantities of money tied up in the Offshore tax havens. For this, it is essential that the establishment leave the European Court of Justice, and you cannot remain in either the Customs Union or the Single Market without being in the ECJ.

The Offshore Tax Havens are now at the stage of threatening the wealth of first nations. The EU are not squeamish when it comes to tax havens, (Switzerland and Lichtenstein probably invented the genre for heaven sakes) but, it has got to such an extent now it cannot be ignored, and they are systematically legislating to sort it.

I think a hard Brexit is inevitable.

So, where does that leave us in the Indy movement. Well we have to educate, not campaign, but educate. And there is nothing stopping us except our own whatever.

I truly wish there was a bit more direction coming out of the SNP, but at the same time, how much more can they do, they are creating a bank, an energy company, running the country, saving the NHS (compared to England).

We’re the grass roots and we have to get on with it.

And now for the good news. Brexit is absolutely shit, and every bad news story, every doom and gloom forecast will meet willing ears. People absolutely believe the worst. Even those who vote leave! Project ‘Will You Look at That Shower of Edjits, What a ‘ucking Shambles’ belongs to us… and the SNP are the safe, sensible boring ones now.

And they decried us as too wee, too poor and too stupid.

This time the case for Indy – the cards are falling for dour, stoic, sensible, this is going to be shit/but we’d better get on with it – 100% Scottish psyche. We don’t do easy.

YES NOW

Sinky

Hamish100 says:@6.09

The highly vicious anti SNP rant on BBC Radio Scotland Newsdrive this afternoon was by one Geoffrey Williams who must have been trying to impress his potential anti terrorist clients

link to 3ciglobalsolutions.co.uk

Thepnr

If the so called “Scottish Media” were actually sticking up for Scotland in for example us being dragged out of the EU despite a 62% vote to remain the next Independence referendum would be a walk in the park.

The truth though is that unlike in the past todays “Scottish Media” is no such thing and its agenda against Scotland’s best interests are clear for all to see.

We need a clear out which will only happen after Scotland does become Independent. Murray Foote should have taken David Clegg and Torchil Crighton with him out the door if he wanted to save the Record.

New blood is needed that will put Scotland’s case first and foremost. The Record cannot survive by ignoring the majority of the Scottish electorate by leading with Westminster bile and bias.

Doomed I tell yah. Doomed!

yesindyref2

OT – defence
link to ukdefencejournal.org.uk

Basically speaking, with another article, Germany’s military in a shocking state of disrepari with a shortage of spares.

@Graf Midgehunter could maybe confirm if this is true.

Food for thought when it comes to iScotland’s military, and showing advance purchase of spares is a major item, or buy loads of stuff and it’s useless in a couple of years. UK’s not perfect, but not bad when it comes to inventory. Mmm, not AS bad.

Ananurhing

With the Daily Wretched having just shot itself in the Foote. For an encore, might it now shoot itself in the Dick? Probably a more fatal wound.

Either way it seems to be haemorrhaging.

Thepnr

Norway or Canada type deal for Brexit?

Maybe neither. In-Out In-Out and shake it all about?

But there is also a lingering hope that once May finally comes clean about the trade-offs inherent to both approaches, and their inferiority to EU membership, that it might prompt a public rethink.

Such a rethink is unlikely, but the recent barrage of pre-emptive forgiveness from Emmanuel Macron, Donald Tusk, Jean-Claude Juncker and others suggests a repentant prodigal son would be welcomed home. Two years wasted is better than ten.

link to prospectmagazine.co.uk

Valerie

A LOT of anger on Twitter about the way Tories are now starting a movement to rubbish the Good Friday Agreement.

DUP stated the UK govt had to start prep for direct rule from London.

The Shinners have just issued a statement quoting the terms of the settlement which actually state in this situation, its co managed by the UK and Irish govt.

You do wonder if this is the rock on which Brexit will break.

Graeme McCormick

I know that Murray Foote voted YES in the Independence Referendum

Robert J. Sutherland

Valerie @ 22:06,

You could well be right. We often forget that May is between her very own rock and ultra-hard place.

(It’s the Great Unmentionable on the Beeb, which on a RepScot report the other day assured us without an iota of doubt “that Brexit is going to happen”.)

Yet this Ukexitmobile has so many seriously wobbly wheels that it might be a wonder if all are still in place by crunch time in the autumn!

And no amount of blitz mentality on the BBC will be able to hide that particular wreck.

Kevin

I am delighted the Daily Record is dying. It deserves to die.

And, in case you’re reading this, Neil MacKay, I do regret the loss of jobs – but it wasn’t independence supporters who caused it, it was your very own industry. Please don’t ever insult independence supporters by lecturing us on ethics, we’re tired of the ethics of your rotten industry.

Vince

Trains, Hotels, Airports etc in UK and abroad are awash with free copies of Union tabloids:- Scotsman, Daily Mail, Express, Sun, Telegraph and so on but never a pro Indy paper (whether you are in Scotland or elsewhere). The tabloid figures are inflated but only because they are giving them away everywhere free – in UK and overseas.

I refuse to even pick them up for free as it would give them “circulation”.

Phronesis

‘…it is young people who shall face the full brunt of Brexit, and who strongly backed “remain”. Unfortunately, children and young people’s issues were largely excluded from the referendum debates. These focused on the more “important” issues of trade, the economy and immigration…

The EU has positively influenced family law in furthering children’s human rights protections, particularly in the context of the right of the child to have an opportunity to express their views, the requirement for a balance between the depth of an individualised assessment into the child’s best interests and the speed of proceedings and the right of the child to maintain regular and direct contact with their parents. Reliance on the Hague Conventions may result in a watering down of protection for children…
There is an urgent need for the UK Government to address these issues to ensure there is no “gap” in the application of these Conventions upon Brexit resulting in no protections whatsoever…
In summary, this case study demonstrates that children’s human rights are being increasingly embedded into EU legislation and policy. This is helping to ensure that children’s human rights are protected, respected and fulfilled across the EU in line with the Charter of Fundamental Rights. This research highlights that there is a significant number of children born to families in Scotland who are at risk of losing significant protections of their rights in relation to cross-border family law’

link to togetherscotland.org.uk

‘There are currently 3.7 million children living in poverty in the UK. That’s over a quarter of all children. 1.7 million of these children are living in severe poverty. In the UK 63% of children living in poverty are in a family where someone works…

Families living in poverty can have as little as £13 per day per person to buy everything they need such as food, heating, toys, clothes, electricity and transport’

link to barnardos.org.uk

Looking at big issues through a children’s rights lens doesn’t really uphold anything about ‘better together’ in UKOK.

Thepnr

@Graeme McCormick

I know that Murray Foote voted YES in the Independence Referendum

That’s entirely plausible and I can even believe it to be true. Though that doesn’t explain what he said in an article penned by him in the Record on the eve of the anniversary of the Referendum where he personally takes much of the credit for “The Vow”.

The first step was to ask Brown to help broker the promise. Cameron, shaken by the poll and Our Hear No Devo front page, was now taking advice from a man who was his sworn enemy.

If Brown could get Cameron on board, I would convince Labour leader Miliband. If they both signed up, Lib Dem leader Clegg would have to play along. Brown is notoriously difficult to pin down because of his constant workload.

So I sent the following text message to a former colleague now working for him: “Would Gordon be able to get the three party leaders to sign an agreed wording Daily Record pledge for more devolved powers for Scotland? We could then present that as a front page document.”

And so The Vow was born.

The intention was clear from the off: It was a joint offer that would be presented as a binding document. Brown negotiated with Cameron, I negotiated with Miliband and Clegg fell into line.

link to dailyrecord.co.uk

Whether Foote voted Yes or No is a by the by. His Vow did sway some voters into voting No, doesn’t really matter how many the plain fact is that it would have swayed people away from Yes to No in the belief that Scotland would be getting “more powers”.

A gigantic red herring and I hope he has at least some regrets over his part in all this giving subsequent events. His future actions will no doubt reveal which side of the fence he is on.

Dave McEwan Hill

Graeme McCormick at 10.21

Doesn’t surprise me at all. I suspect there is more to his resignation than meets the eye. I very much doubt if he was responsible for the VOW on the front Page of the Record which has been the only tabloid to give any space to the SNP – over the last three years it has given a page once a week and for some time twice a week to Nicola Sturgeon, Joan McAlpine and Mhairi Black.

I think a lot of the ranting here about the Record have no idea about it recently. It has put the boot into small Dick Leonard on several occasions recently and there have been several editorials praising Nicola Sturgeon in the last few weeks.

In fact the Record has been the least bad newspaper in Scotland towards the SNP (the Sun sits on the fence) and the worst are probably the P&J, the Mail and the Express with the Herald and Scotsman both disgracing themselves also.

Foote might have been actually given the boot.

yesindyref2

@Dave McEwan Hill
I agree. The vendetta against the Record for the Vow is counter-productive, we’re looking for Independence, not some imaginary futile revenge.

Thepnr

@Dave McEwan Hill

Well Foote himself has claimed to be responsible for the Vow, his own article couldn’t be clearer.

MJT

I rented a flat in Beckton in London years ago. Brand new building. Shiny and sparkly. Landlord made me an offer, seemed like a good deal. Shiny new everything. Chuffed to bits i was.

A few weeks later, my friend, an architect, a teacher of same subject came to my flat. He shook his head. Saw it different. The fixtures and fixtures glittered but they were not gold. The structure…not so stable. The formica – cheap.

In 25 years this place will be falling to bits, he said. Then i went to open the cupboard door and the handle fell off. Symbolic?

We stood in the same building. But we did not see the same things. He knew more than me. He was right I was wrong. He had more, better information. He was in a better postion to make a decision. I wish i had called him up before i took the lease.

This is a true story, and an allegory. I have no faith. None. I read pish, i see pish, hear pish. Come the time, I hope to make speeches. I use my initials.

To quote the late great Mark E Smith – ‘the working class has been shafted, so what the fuck you sneering at?’

To quote Carver ‘I see a lot of typists’

To quote ee cummings – ‘there is some shit I will not eat’

To quote Julian Cope – ‘ignorance of your culture is not considered cool’

To quote me ‘No wonder this country’s going to the dogs’

Robert J. Sutherland

Dave McEwan Hill @ 22:56,

I caught that hint earlier on. Together with your pessimism that anything will change as long as Trinity Mirror remain in charge? A hardening BritNat posture, even?

Maybe the London owners would prefer to drive their Scottish papers into the ground rather than align them more truthfully with public opinion here?

After all, from their selfish point of view, what’s to lose..?

Dave McEwan Hill

Thepnr at 11.19

Yes. I saw that. He would say that wouldn’t he. Little choice in the matter. But he didn’t choose the editorial position of the Record. He was employed to articulate it. Support for Labour.

We wont win the next referendum by blaming those who opposed us last time. We win it by engaging them and welcoming them when they change their mind.

There are many in our media doing what they are hired to do to keep a job. I could name several broadcasters with BBC and STV that I know voted YES.

Hamish100

Well is the DR now pro independence for Scotland? Clegg turned over a new leaf? Is he pro Irish ? Thought not. The Vow was set out to destroy independence. It succeeded in 2014. No futile revenge but no forgiveness either.

Rock

yesindyref2,

“@Dave McEwan Hill
I agree. The vendetta against the Record for the Vow is counter-productive”

The Record and its readers must never be allowed to forget the Vow as long as the Record exists.

If the fake “independence supporting” The National wants to increase its sales from 8,000, it should consider publishing this WOS article as front page headline news.

Is it there to milk the most gullible of independence supporters or to expose unionist lies?

Thepnr

@Dave McEwan Hill

“But he didn’t choose the editorial position of the Record.”

Foote was the editor, the editorial position was his decision. No?

He did more than that, he claims to have asked an ex colleague to ask Gordon Brown to persuade Cameron and also claims that he personally persuaded Milliband to sign up to the Vow.

He did have a choice, he could have left it alone and if there was pressure that he disagreed with he like anyone else could have walked away.

We make our own choices do we not, just taking orders is never an excuse.

I have no axe to grind with Murray Foote and definitely don’t take part in any blame games. I’m just stating the facts.

If he is an Independence supporter then that pleases me. At the same time since he has influence the likes of you and I could only dream of in the run up to the vote for Independence I would like to see him come out and say so.

Just as he has done in showing how proud he appears to be in getting the Vow on to the front page of Scotland’s biggest selling newspaper two days before the vote.

If he can take the credit then I’m sure he can handle the flak.

Bob Mack

It matters not who is the Editor of the Record. It matters not who are the journalists on the Record. The only thing that matters is that it has a proven,unaltering anti Indy stance. For that simple reason I would ,and never will purchase it again. It is the enemy of my hopes and desires. It is against the things I hold dear.

Robert Peffers

@yesindyref2 says: 19 February, 2018 at 11:03 pm:

In reply to Dave McEwan Hill :-

“I agree. The vendetta against the Record for the Vow is counter-productive, we’re looking for Independence, not some imaginary futile revenge.”

You speak only for yourself. You can cut out that, “We”, stuff. I believe the majority of Wingers, and many have said as much, would be only too glad to see that particular Record Broken.

Anyway it isn’t any form of revenge.

It is quite simply the same as in any war between two different countries. I war, even if you believe the guys in the opposite trenches are much the same as yourself and it is the respective governments who wanted war, not the troops in the front line.

You aim your gun with the intention of killing your enemy – the stark reason being that you either kill him or he will kill you and they sure as hell will kill you on their government’s orders.

Hamish100

Rock the pro supporting DR fan yet anti pro supporting National paper. Confused? He ain’t he’s a tractor back on his night shift.

Rock

Dave McEwan Hill,

“Perhaps he w has resigned because he is refusing to pen any more of the shite he’s been instructed to do.”

You are the most gullible of all independence supporters, in my humble opinion.

After decades as an SNP activitist, surely you should know better than to give the benefit of doubt to the likes of Foote?

Rev. Stuart Campbell,

“Rival hacks dutifully issued a series of glowing tweets about what a smashing guy Foote was and how much he’d improved the paper during his 27-year tenure there in various positions, most recently editor-in-chief, group editor and deputy editor.”

Dr Jim

I’m sure when the FM and husband Peter were composing their congratulatory Tweet to Foote

They were both laughing like drains

Rock

Rock,

“The Record and its readers must never be allowed to forget the Vow as long as the Record exists.”

Robert Peffers,

“I believe the majority of Wingers, and many have said as much, would be only too glad to see that particular Record Broken.”

What is the world coming to?

Robert Peffers endorsing my point of view, without reading it of course as he claims he doesn’t read my posts.

Dave McEwan Hill

Looks like lots of people missing the point.

Laying aside the fact that the Vow had very little effect on most peoples’ voting. The claims that it did were mostly Gordon Brown promotion.

K1

It’s difficult not to be bitter about the Record re the Vow. It really is and whilst I appreciate the sentiment of ‘getting over ourselves’, that doesn’t mean we should not criticise and remember what an appalling lie they printed on that front page and all to ensure we remained shackled to this foolish neighbour intent on total self destruction ‘cos immigrants’.

It’ll take a wee bit more than a couple of editorials and a few columns from the FM for that utter betrayal to be forgotten. We’re allowed to still be scunnered by those who actively played a part in distorting and corrupting our genuine and authentic reasons for gaining our independence and if they had not played their part and had remained ‘even’ then perhaps parts of the electorate would have voted yes with clear and honest information published without such obvious one sidedness by every single paper in Scotland, the Record being the biggest cheerleader wrt to ‘the Vow’.

Foote? Couldn’t give a monkey’s whether he voted Yes or not and if indeed he did vote Yes…to betray his own principles is one thing, to betray ordinary folks by lying to their faces and still not admit how wrong they were especially given the reality of UKexit and what the fate for Scotland is in light of this…is unforgivable.

ian murray

The SNP must be choked after the Herald reports that the Lib Dems Alex Cole Hamilton paid 83 pounds to rent their campaign office in a shopping mall and the SNP who were right next door paid 760 pounds

Robert J. Sutherland

Oh dear, here’s the thing:

Would you rather mope, fruitlessly stuck in righteous indignation at past misdemeanours, or see an additional ally come over?

And how much better would it not be if it was a paper that did what it did back in 2014? Would that not have significant pull with a lot of other former “no”s?

I sometimes wonder if we can possibly win with so many existing supporters determined to bear so many old grudges.

This very visible absence of charity really makes us look very unattractive to the convinceable visitor, don’t you see?

The real question remains, as I said earlier, what will be the policy of papers such as the DR in the critical months to come?

Maybe the owners will stupidly dig in and won’t allow the paper to move with the people, but if that’s what happens, then’s the time to justifiably criticise, surely?

Rock

Dave McEwan Hill,

“the Vow had very little effect on most peoples’ voting.”

That has been my point of view as well, but many independence supporters believe that the Vow was responsible for Yes losing.

K1

Papers and pundits from the NO side campaigned for the ‘short term’, they couldn’t see beyond their own ‘personal’ gains or losses. From our side it was the ‘long term’ we were focused on…and they scuppered that because not one of them from the Foote’s tae the Cameron’s gave a single fuck for the Scots who saw the writing on the wall, how soon did it happen?

Smith commission? Where was the Record’s sticking up for Scotland when it was plain tae the dugs in the street that we had been played?

Shower of selfish bastards the lot of them and I’ll bet the sink on it that all of them are able ‘to leave the country’ when the shit hits the farm…eh? Spivs and shysters one and all.

Sold out a nation they did.

K1

Don’t worry Robert J, they’ll turn into independence supporter’s when their pockets get hit. Or as I just stated, they’ll leave wi nary a backward glance at the devastation wrought. Afterall did they ever really ‘care’ about ‘the people’. in the first place? Ah hae ma doots. As this very article reminds us, they’ve never been right about anything, blatant self preservation society is what they are and always have been since ‘SNPbad’ took up residence at Holyrood.

Rock

Robert J. Sutherland,

“Would you rather mope, fruitlessly stuck in righteous indignation at past misdemeanours, or see an additional ally come over?”

Would you want to stand shoulder to shoulder with proven liars like Dugdale and Foote?

They can vote Yes if they want, but I would not want them anywhere near the Yes campaign.

They have no shame, no credibility and no honour, whichever side they might opportunistically side with.

Last time, the official Yes campaign distanced itself from the genuinely pro-independence WOS for using some strong language to expose a lying Tory scum.

Would you want WOS to be distanced from while the likes of Dugdale and Foote form part of a Yes campaign?

Joemcg

For those saying “the vow” had no effect on the result how come a yes lead turned into a 10 point defeat in the last few days of campaigning?

Robert J. Sutherland

K1 @ 00:25,

Aye, there’s always been some who can see which way the wind’s blowing, and turn around out of self-interest rather than any real conviction. (The Sun being a likely candidate, for one.)

But every straw in the wind still helps, does it not…?

Or am I getting too cynical myself now? =grin=

(But hopefully I’ll never be mistaken for Mr Negative, anyways…)

yesindyref2

@Robert Peffers
I know I don’t speak for “we”.

Like many here I’ve wanted Independence for many years. Personally speaking, if Alistair Darling, Blair McDougall, Ruth Davidson, Jackie Burd and Andrew Neil came to me and said that they’d seen the light and wanted to campaign for YES I’d ask them what they wanted to do for it.

The think is, I don’t indeed, speak for many who’d do the same.

Rock

Joemcg,

“For those saying “the vow” had no effect on the result how come a yes lead turned into a 10 point defeat in the last few days of campaigning?”

James Caithness (17th October 2014 – “Healing and uniting”):

“Basically though the NO voters were and are and will remain selfish self serving gits.”

Rock (17th October 2014 – “Healing and uniting”):

“Apart from 10% of the 55%, they definitely were, are and will remain what you say.

Our only hope is getting to the 10% who are not selfish self serving gits but were scared to death by the likes of Asda and the BBC.”

I believe it was the likes of Asda and Pravda GB that did it, not the Vow.

And then there was the “silent majority” although many, including the Rev. Stuart Campbell and veteran SNP activist Morag, believe that the referendum wasn’t rigged.

Scot Finlayson

@Dave McEwan Hill

I agree with you,

lets get Independence first, then we can figure out what to do with the likes of Foote and all the other Scottish media liars.

A, Graham

This an amusing thing, but not all that important.

Really, it is not.

One bit of the Trinity Mirror plc has done something that gives us some happy laughs.

But it will make no difference to anything – look at the rest of that Trinity Mirror lot. link to en.wikipedia.org

We have to be careful not to be distracted.

yesindyref2

Mmm, the moment the talk turns to discussing wheter or not to take all help for YES and Independence, whatever its provenance, Rock shows up. What does that tell us?

Back to watching MI5 🙂

Mission Impossible that is …

Liz g

Scot Finlayson @ 1.57
Surely you mean what to do ABOUT the media liar’s.
I’m sure you don’t want to be taken the wrong way Scot,ye know whit those very media liar’s are like.
Especially with this site…..they seem a tad more panicked lately as well…can think why though…

Dr Jim

According to BBC Question time UKIP have been on the program more times than the SNP because they got more votes

So out of the mouths of the BBC they admit to changing the rules of British politics to suit an English agenda being that elected representation doesn’t count it’s purely weight of numbers which means in the next thousand years Scotland could never be represented equally on BBC Question time

The ramifications of that admission by the BBC should reverberate throughout the entirety of Scotland as a clear statement

Scotland doesn’t and wont count,,,,,EVER!!

Ken500

The lie that UKIP got more votes than the SNP. Not proportionately. UKIP stood in over 600 seats. The SNP stands in only over 60 seats. Ie if a Party stands in over 600 seats they will get more votes. Not as a proportion/percentage of the vote. Fargue lies or does not know the difference, Neither does the BBC.

UKIP got 4million votes out of an electorate of 45Million electorate. (10%). Turnout of 50%+? = 20%

The SNP got nearly 50% of the vote. Over lmillion+ Out of an electorate of 4 million+. Over 2million turnout.

The amount of times Farague, the liar, repeats the 4 million (by proportion lie) and lies about the SNP votes and turnout. An ignoramous.

Farague can’t count or read a balance sheet.

UKIP got 20% of the vote (turnout) . The SNP got nearly 50% (turnout)

The SNP got seats in proportion to the number of seats they stand in. (Over 60 not over 600) obviously a Party standing in over 600 seats will get more votes but no as a percentage.

The coverage given UKIP is just plain wrong. Totally over proportion.

Ken500

Germany was not allowed to keep an Army after 11WW. One of the reasons it is so prosperous?

No equivalent £Billions wasted on redundant weaponry and illegal wars.

EU basis formed after 11WW to stop starvation and wars in Europe.

North chiel

Can we please have more of the “ soft west coast lilt” of Anne Lundon on “ Reporting shortcake” rather than the “ public school hectoring style” of JB . It is so much easier on the ear as the tone and delivery is rather soothing. Much more appropriate for “ Scottish “ broadcasting. Perhaps Anne could replace Kaye Adams also on radio? Oh and continue with the weather forecast.Are you “ listening” Donalda ??

Heehawbaws

Blair McDougall tweeted a tribute about not treating readers like idiots that, like everything else he says, sounded more like the opposite of the truth and kind of like trolling.

Giving Goose

David Davis quote from speech re Brexit later (see the Guardian) – “They fear that Brexit could lead to an Anglo-Saxon race to the bottom.”

Notice anything in that sentence?

Hamish100

Is rock Away to his bed yet? He is always on the back shift or is he abroad? As for the Vow did it help or sow doubt and negativity? We know the answer.

Ken500

No Press support the SNP (Gov). The most popular with the most support, The Herald is right wing. The National too radical. The Press are rubbish. They attack the Scottish Gov from the right and the left etc. When it is the most popular and gets the majority vote consistently in Scotland. Even with an electoral system changed by Unionists. To try and benefit them.

The Tories could not make a bigger mess, Labour will not win in the rest of the UK with Corbyn as leader. If he cared he would step aside.

Joe of the Coutts

Ref the suggestions for refreshing TV and Radio presenters.
I find Stephen Jardine a relief when he stands in occasionally.

ronnie anderson

Giving Goose After brexit it’ll be Anglo Sack on like day’s of yore ,clothes will be to dear lol.

Tinto Chiel

Don’t forget the ashes, Ronnie @9.20.

manandboy

link to bbc.co.uk

The Brainwashing Corporation reporting a speech by David Davis which he has yet to make, but in which he proclaims how the UK is committed to the highest standards of regulation.
So no lies then, no tax evasion, no banking fraud or money laundering, no tampering with elections, no paedophile protection at Westminster or at the Brainwashing Corporation, no lying about Scottish revenues.

Where do you stop when the UK’s ruling class is the UK’s criminal class.

Clydebuilt

OT . . Call KayE’s topic . . Rubbishing the Scottish Government’s budget. . . . two expert guests . . . Struan Stevenson and Andy MacIver . . . .

Tories to the MAX. An example of Bias to come!

Clootie

…to be fair a puppet master was telling him to tell Scots how to vote.

Someone is funding the MSM to keep the unionist propaganda alive and kicking. They need only a few more decades to bleed Scotland dry.

galamcennalath

David Davis claims Brexit is not about deregulation. Well, given the economic forecasts show how damaging it will be, why does Davis still want to go ahead with it?

Of course they don’t want Mad Max, there is no ruling elite in that scenario.

They want a dystopic future which is a cross between 1984 and Hunger Games.

galamcennalath

Giving Goose says:

Anglo-Saxon

Immigration eh? Britannia has never been quite the same since we let that lot settle here. 😉

Breastplate

Regarding “The Vow”, I understand (according to an Ashcroft survey, I think) that people have said when questioned about it, The Vow had no impact on their voting decision.

These will be the same type of people that say advertising doesn’t influence them in the least.
Nobody wants to be portrayed as some kind of easily manipulated docile imbecile.
Many will also try to distance themselves from something that is tainted or has become toxic, the same way it was damn near impossible to find an American who voted for Nixon.
“The Vow” quickly became contentious.

People like to believe that their thoughts are their own and not an osmosis opinion absorbed through the daily rags that they read but the truth is, all of us are susceptible to marketing (propaganda), it is designed specifically around us to manipulate us.
I say again, we are all susceptible to conditioning and the first line of defence against it, is to acknowledge that.

Did *The Vow” make an impact on people voting? Of course it did.
Would people like to admit that? Of course not.

This is my own opinion….or at least I think it is anyway.

Robert Peffers

@Joemcg says: 20 February, 2018 at 12:32 am:

“For those saying “the vow” had no effect on the result how come a yes lead turned into a 10 point defeat in the last few days of campaigning?”

Two words Joemcg. Ignorance & Fear.

But to amplify upon those two it was ignorance of the truth and thus fear of the unknown. There is an old saying – “The truth will set you free.”

“The truth will set you free”, is a common saying in academic circles which want to insure academic freedom and promote the power of learning and many universities the statement on a sign at the entrance to the building.

However, the quote, that, “The truth will set you free”, did not originate in academia.

It comes from the Bible in which Jesus is quoted as saying, it in John 8:32. However, in this instance here in Scotland it refers to the lack of the real truth that has been kept from the common people by the Westminster Establishment, (and that comprises far more than both houses of the Parliament in London.

It is the lies, the misrepresentations and the lack of information that the United Kingdom Establishment propaganda uses to mislead the people the constant claims that Scotland is too small, too poor and her people far too stupid to be able to rule themselves.

The truth, though, is that Scotland is not just rich but very rich and contains most of the real resources of the United Kingdom that the United Kingdom is so desperate to hold onto.

You do not need to be, “Brain of Britain”, to realise there is something far wrong about the construct that is The Westminster Establishment. Real and provable historic facts show they used illegal methods, including military might, to force the Scottish Kingdom into union with the Kingdom of England.

From then they have claimed that England has thereafter been subsidising the Kingdom of Scotland because Scotland is too wee, too poor and too stupid to govern itself. Yet we have the Westminster Establishment now fighting tooth and nail in order to keep on subsidising those poverty stricken, very stupid wee Scots just from the goodness of their big charitable English establishment hearts.

Aye!
Richt!

Charitable the Westminster Establishment is not.

Lenny Hartley

Anglo Saxons a fine tribe, One of my mates called Rab says , the ones that came To Britain became the Tories, the ones that went to South Africa became the Boers , the ones that went to Anerica became the Republican’s and the ones that stayed in Germany became the Nazi’s. Notice any connection?

manandboy

Worried about interference in IndyRef2? – you should be.

“The US interfered in 81 elections.
Russian meddling may well have had some impact on the US election. But Uncle Sam has a long history of interfering in elections abroad to ensure deregulated capitalism persists as a global force. According to political scientist Dov Levin of Carnegie Mellon University, the US interfered in up to 81 elections from 1946 to 2000. And that number doesn’t include regime change operations that followed the election of candidates the US didn’t favour.

As the LA Times summarises:

These acts, carried out in secret two-thirds of the time, include funding the election campaigns of specific parties, disseminating misinformation or propaganda, training locals of only one side in various campaigning or get-out-the-vote techniques, helping one side design their campaign materials, making public pronouncements or threats in favour of or against a candidate, and providing or withdrawing foreign aid”. (The Canary)

Breastplate

Agreed Robert, Westminster will do anything to keep hold of Scotland’s resources, legal or otherwise.

Breastplate

Manandboy,
I happen to believe we were cheated in 2014, many would agree with me but I would certainly like to hear from people who thought everything was fair and above board.

galamcennalath

Breastplate says:

The Vow … Ashcroft

Table 9

“Q.6 I am going to read out three reasons people have given for voting NO. Please can you rank them in order of how important they were in your decision, from first to third, even if there were other reasons that were important to you?”

47% ranked this first

“The risks of becoming independent looked too great when it came to things like the currency, EU membership, the economy, jobs and prices”

27% ranked this first

“Astrongattachment to the United Kingdom and its shared history, culture and traditions “

25% ranked this first

“A NO vote would still mean extra powers for the Scottish Parliament together with the security of remaining part of the United Kingdom, giving the best of both worlds”

Firstly, these figures are for ranking first. Other people ranked these as second, therefore implying it was still of some importance to them.

Secondly, the third option is clearly the essence of The Vow, showing a quarter of NO voters considered ‘more powers within the UK’ to be of greater importance to them than risks of Indy or BritNattery. The Vow was the big sales pitch for ‘more powers’.

Another little nugget lies in Table 3 …

“Q. 3 When did you finally make up your mind how you would vote in the referendum?”

The NET figure NO voters for last week is 9% (3+3+3), and NET for last month is 20%. Talk of ‘more powers’ began about two weeks out.

Obviously we can’t all of these were influenced specifically by the late more powers sale pitch. However the indications are they could well have been. And there is certainly no evidence they weren’t.

link to lordashcroftpolls.com

Robert Peffers

@Scot Finlayson says:20 February, 2018 at 1:57 am:

“lets get Independence first, then we can figure out what to do with the likes of Foote and all the other Scottish media liars.”

We do not need to do anything with the likes of Foote. They are a bit like Little Bo Peep’s sheep.

Leave them alone and they’ll go home, wdragging their tales behind them.

In other words their deeds will, (inadvertently), follow them wherever they go.

Dave McEwan Hill

I was at the centre of a large and very active operation all the way through the referendum with a huge canvas and we met no reaction to the “Vow” except some wry amusement. It actually said nothing.

Afterwards of much more concern was the apparent 97% turnout of the postal vote in this constituency (which was recorded also in four others with most constituencies turning in over 90% where the norm is usually around 75%) which is, in any realistic sense, impossible. We had reports of postal votes being given to members of families who been out of the area for over twenty years and stuff like that.

This of course is the postal voting system described in 2009 by the EU and the European Commission as “a recipe for large scale voting fraud”.

Breastplate

Galamcennalath,
Yes, The Vow was pretty much in everyone’s face just before the vote along with Gordon Brown making a mockery of the Purdah.

A. Graham

Apart from the in/outs of the “Daily Record”, personnel and politics thereof, this also happens just when Trinity Mirror has bought Northern & Shell. I do not know that this is important, but it might just be a wee bit of shuffling around for a new job.

heedtracker

manandboy says:
20 February, 2018 at 10:08 am
Worried about interference in IndyRef2? – you should be.

USA is the leader of the free world. They’d argue they’re spreading democracy, presumably. Although neo fascists like Regan and Snatcher Thatcher probably weren’t all about that democratic spreading shit.

Putin’s Russia is hardly a democracy is it, an autocratic kleptocracy, like what the UKOK zone under toryboy rule is, RT being the wannabe beeb gimp network, like here in their Scotland region, where the no.1 task of all beeb gimps is, destroy Scottish democracy, make lots of luverly mullah.

Other news, as the great yoon catastrofuck that is Aberdeen City Council continues its good orks ruining Aberdeen and pissing away hundreds of millions on white elephants, see Yoon Catastrofuck of the Millenium Sir Wullie Young’s latest £100+ million city centre SLabour white elephant…its different in Dundee.

link to thecourier.co.uk

Breastplate

Dave,
I’m not saying people admitted The Vow changed their minds, I’m saying the opposite.
People generally believe their opinions came after mulling over both sides of a debate and have come to a thoughtful conclusion.
I’m suggesting that this is pish, most people believe what they read although you would be hard pushed to find anybody that would admit that.

So I’m not disagreeing with you, I’ve just come to a different conclusion and I believe my logic is sound.

Breastplate

P.S.
If broadcasting was devolved, I believe that we would already be independent.

heedtracker

Scotland is fcuked now under Brexit tory rule but tory propagandists in their Scotland region will ensure our annoying Scottishy brains are washed clean, for the great UKOK zone to come,

link to bloomberg.com

From stinky olde The Graun, Sevy the toryboy hammer of Scots democracy thinks that Scottish deer and squirrels are far more interesting for his Scottish readers,

The long read Tue 20 Feb 2018 06.00 GMT
‘People think the deer are lovely. Then they learn more about it’: the deer cull dilemma
The Scottish Highlands have a deer problem. Is shooting tens of thousands of them the only solution? By Cal Flyn

Tue 20 Feb 2018 06.00 GMT
Problem-solving could be key to grey squirrels’ success, study finds
Research in UK shows invasive species bests native red squirrels in complex tasks.

Tory britnat stench from The Graun is getting higher and higher these days. Is there something very democratic in Scotland brewing again, that they can all do this too?

link to wingsoverscotland.com

Bob Mack

I cannot believe that people believe the now infamous “Vow ” had no effect on the Referendum. To set the scene, we must remember in the last few weeks up to the Referendum we were neck and neck with panic setting in to the Unionist side when polls indicated Yes in the lead.

They had to come up with a game changer,and after consultation between Brown,Cameron !Foote and no doubt many others including PR specialists, they devised a formula which would satisfy the middle ground. It was not aimed psychologically at the extremes of Yes or No, but specifically to those who were seen as waivers.

The promise was for more autonomy, and more say in how Scotland self governed. In other words,they recognised that this was what the Scottish people wanted, and so they offered this in addition to the “security” of being part of a state which offered financial security even though it was an illusion. They fed on people’s insecurity, and deliberately targeted that aspect.

We know the rest of course.Broken promises as usual.

I am also sure the same tactic would fail miserably next time.

Remember,we are after the waiver vote.

stu mac

@manandboy says:
20 February, 2018 at 9:27 am
link to bbc.co.uk

Where do you stop when the UK’s ruling class is the UK’s criminal class.
===========================================

Now that is a phrase that encapsulates everything that has gone wrong with Westminster rule.

Dave McEwan Hill

Breastplate at 11 am

I agree entirely. Our only enemy now is the media (and those who control it)

Robert Peffers

@manandboy says: 20 February, 2018 at 9:27 am:

link to bbc.co.uk

“The Brainwashing Corporation reporting a speech by David Davis”

All that news item tells me is that David Davis and the BRUKEXITeers are bent over with their heads buried in the sand and with their arses exposed to the truth that is the Sun. The inevitable result is that the Sun will burn their exposed rears.

The entire European Union and their Civil Service, (The European Commissioners), have said from the start that there can be no, “Cherry Picking”, of the European Union’s, “Four Freedoms”.

In every post-Brexit statement, the heads of the European Union state, “Access to the single market requires acceptance of all four freedoms.”

But what are those, “Four Freedoms”?

The total of these Four Freedoms are known collectively as, “The Single Market.

The European Union single market makes it easy for BritishUnited Kingdom businesses to trade with European Union countries and gives then access to more than 500 million European Union customers.

The ‘four freedoms’ of the European Union are the freedom of movement of goods, freedom of movement of people, the freedom of services across borders and the freedom of movement of capital over borders.

However the BRUKexit campaigners would like to retain access to the single market, but want rid of such as freedom of movement of people.

They will not get rid of Freedom of Movement while getting access to the single market because German chancellor Angela Merkel and all EU leaders have poured cold water on this idea and refused to compromise on the key EU principle.

Merkel says: “Whoever wants to leave this family cannot expect to shed all of its responsibilities but keep the privileges.”

European Council President Donald Tusk agrees with that sentiment saying,, “there would be “no free-trade agreement” with Britain without free movement.

However, French foreign minister Michel Sapin said there should be no “red lines” in negotiations before BRUKexit talks have even begun.

However, talks have now begun and the United Kingdom’s insistence that they can negotiate a deal that allows the United Kingdom to retain what they see as the bits of the European Freedoms they want to keep but reject those they do not like are pure, “pie in the sky, by and by, for you and I”.

It just isn’t going to happen because if the European Union were to do a soft BRUKEXIT then the other EU member states would start to attempt to negotiate terms that suited their wishes and such as Norway who have had to accept EU rules while paying EU dues but having no say in EU decision making would also demand concessions with the inevitable result of the end of the EU.

galamcennalath

Breastplate says:

If broadcasting was devolved, I believe that we would already be independent.

Imagine…. if the 40% rule in 1979 hadn’t applied, if a parliament had been set up, if broadcasting had been devolved at some point decades ago …. we might have been independent a long time ago.

If broadcasting had been given to Holyrood when it was eventually set up, IMO we definitely would have won in 2014. Looking at the figures I posted at 10:31, 47% had their primary reason as risk. If broadcast media had been more even handed instead of regurgitation BritNat propaganda, that 47% would have been much lower.

Dr Jim

The VOW was a direct contravention of the referendums guidelines of the United Nations
Alex Salmond complained and everybody closed their eyes and ears and hid under their desks
The civil service in Whitehall interfered in the referendum, again in contravention of the rules, Alex Salmond complained and everybody said *Meh*
The UK treasury interfered in the referendum with the same result, the UK state said *Meh*

We can’t sell Independence as if we’re selling door to door encyclopedias in the hope of enriching the knowledge of the Nation in some gentle persuasive manner by informing folk “you know it makes sense”

The English MPs, Prime Ministers, past prime ministers, foreign prime ministers, POTUS, bloody Holy Men, Leaders of opposition parties, the Media all came to Scotland and monstered the people on TV, Radio, Newspapers Billboards, posters and door to door terror, and they won

Don’t knows, or swing voters are by their very nature indecisive cowards and the UK exploited that using these methods, plus there are the Wannabees the section of society who wants to be on the winning side so they must be shown who’s going to win before it happens so they then feel good about taking that side
Noboy wants to place their bet in the Bookies knowing they’re going to lose

All of the above requires money and an extreme determination to crush the opponent, fortunately the SNP this time has the money, the rest is up to us to scare Scotland shitless into the realisation that the UK of England is going to be the basket case of the world and the only way they will survive is by raping Scotlands assets until we are a breadline Nation with no hope

Bill and Ben

When i think of scottish politics i allways think of the great socialist Jimmy Reid, Jimmy as far as i know never actually stood for any kind of political office.
Jimmy was a great labour man most of his life, but later on he was an SNP supporter, and he died an SNP man, Jimmy came to realise that the scottish labour party did not have the will to change from the kind of party that Keir Hardie would have hated to be a part of.
Imagine if men the likes of Jimmy where starting out today, there is no way people like Jimmy would dance to the tune of the english labour party, Jimmy would have made a great First Minister, but ofc when he started out as a union leader that was where his heart lay, getting fair play for the workers.
But imagine if Jimmy was starting out as an SNP man today and really getting into the politics and striving to eventually become a MSP, what a difference that man would have made, forget John Smith, good man as he was, Jimmy would never have been a player in scotland for english unionism

Bill not Ben

Dr Jim

I could’nt agree more, well said

Bill not Ben

I forgot to mention Jimmy was on the Parkinson show with Kenneth Williams and you could see the respect ken had for jimmy, its on youtube for anyone that has not seen it yet

Blair Paterson

I still believe the referendum was fixed I mean postal votes Taken to England to count why ??? And no exit polls why ??? Davidson telling us the postal votes result before they were supposed to be counted ??? The whole thing was a complete fraud and the next ref., if we ever get one will be the same unless we get independent people in to observe what is going on alough that does not seem to help in Palestine ???no Without Scotland’s wealth etc., England could not survive they will never allow you your freedom without a fight and they are depending on the fact that most people do not want a fight or violence of any kind

Effijy

Can anyone clarify if the horrific disease Foot and Mouth
was named after this cloven-hoofed Editor at the broken Record?

Just like Alistair Carmichael and the Liberals, Foot thinks politics is just a game to keep your team in power, no matter what lies and deceit you need to get up to.

Yet another so called socialist millionaire who is happy see 4 Million living in poverty, exponential growth of food banks, and North Sea Oil revenue go to the rich.

If Labour was supposed to be looking after the majority of people
why then has the UK Gap between rich and poor widened for each of the last 55 years? Labour where in power for much of that time.

You are just a second class Jock who doesn’t deserve to know what is happening in their Northern Colony.

The McCrone Report, the Dunblane Massacre, the theft of Scottish Maritime Waters, all Labour’s vicious contempt for Scotland and democracy.

Proud Cybernat

“England could not survive they will never allow you your freedom without a fight and they are depending on the fact that most people do not want a fight or violence of any kind”

Of fuck I never thought of that – England will want a fight. I’d better no’ vote for Indy then.

Get a grip, FFS.

heedtracker

The English MPs, Prime Ministers, past prime ministers, foreign prime ministers, POTUS, bloody Holy Men, Leaders of opposition parties, the Media all came to Scotland and monstered the people on TV, Radio, Newspapers Billboards, posters and door to door terror, and they won

They did win but did they?

We are up against it. BBC World Service is the epicentre of tory British neo fascism. Throughout the night before 18th Sept 2014, that crew ran a fake but hysterical headline story from Australia, “jihadi terrorists are in Australian shopping malls beheading shoppers, thousands of Australia anti terrorist police were fighting them hard.”

None of it was true, with the second header in that historic BBC World news headline that night, ” and later today, Scotland goes to the polls to leave the UK, for ever.”

All of the beheading Australian shoppers BBC World news was headed by this abject tory nutter from Oxford, who Australia tolerated for about 18 months as their PM.

“I think that the people who would like to see the break-up of the United Kingdom are not the friends of justice, the friends of freedom, and the countries that would cheer at the prospect… are not the countries whose company one would like to keep.”

Beeb gimps love a toryboy, anywhere, anytime but not everyone does, US satire wise,

“Australia is for Australians,” says a tory nutter from London, merry olde England.

link to youtube.com

He’ll be back and the great beeb gimp network will love him for it, just like they really love Orange Hitler too.

link to sbs.com.au

galamcennalath

Dr Jim says

scare Scotland shitless into the realisation that the UK of England is going to be the basket case of the world

Yes, I think YES2 needs to be double edged sword. Firstly a positive vision that Scotland could be a better place run by Scots for Scots. Secondly we need to be pragmatic next time and run our own Project Fear focusing on the reality of a Brexit UK.

BetterTogether’s Project Fear was based on a lot of nonsense. Like almost everything else they uttered it wasn’t probable or truthful. Our Project Fear needs to be based on more solid ground. Citing genuinely unbiased reports plus WM’s own predictions, combined with rapidly accumulating hard evidence.

Those who voted NO (which appears to be the largest group) because Indy appeared to them as risky, need to come to realise that BrexitUK is now the risky option!

geeo

Quote from Blair Paterson…low level yoon goon..

“they will never allow you your freedom without a fight”

Every indy dupporting Scots i know, would have phrased that as “they will never allow US, OUR freedom without a fight”.

B)air Paterson, yer a twat.

 

Liz g

Breastplate @ 10.46
RE ..The Vow
Like you,
I can’t see how anyone can argue that the vow had no effect on Indy ref 1.
If the front page of a news paper has no impact… then what are they for?

Every campaign that every newspaper had claimed credit for was a lie then, if,front Page’s are irrelevant to shaping public opinion…they can’t have it both ways.
A Schrödinger’s front page,that simultaneously influenced public opinion all the while having absolutely no effect !
Is that really what they are sayin???

Ultimately if we are to believe this we would have to accept the the people of Liverpool just woke up one day and for no good reason decided not to buy the Sun anymore.
And that it had absolutely not a thing to do with any front page…..

So yes Breastplate I would say that it is indeed how people like to think they process information rather than how they actually do!
Otherwise they ( the media )wouldn’t do it….
As an aside I have noticed that around a half dozen or so of my friends have quietly stopped buying the record not because of it’s political stance or abysmal journalism.
But because I point out (when the opportunity a rises and Indy is not being discussed) that the Daily Record has the reading age of 8…..it really puts them off.

starlaw

Project fear is the way to go, Westminster will try this tactic again but this time we must retaliate. The boot is now on our foot with the uncertainty of Brexit.
Challenge Westminster on this and don’t even care if it is a lie, when the start shouting hit them with another dose of facts to defend, then another, keep them on the back foot.

Valerie

So we have gone from how Brexit would be a life enhancing, free trade utopia to ‘it won’t be like Mad Max’.

Can’t believe that clown DD actually used the Mad Max analogy, standing in the sophisticated Vienna.

As I, and others, have said, if we can’t win a referendum on independence in the coming months based on this horror show, we NEVER will win, and a No vote will ensure the question isn’t put again, for decades, if ever. A No vote will facilitate the plan to reduce Holyrood to a parish council.

Robert Peffers

@Bill and Ben says: 20 February, 2018 at 12:07 pm

“Jimmy came to realise that the scottish labour party did not have the will to change from the kind of party that Keir Hardie would have hated to be a part of.”

Where did you get that idea from, Bill and Ben?

Keir Hardie began his political life as a member of the Scottish Crofters Party and never won a seat at any level of government in Scotland. James Keir Hardie was a Scottish socialist, politician, and trade unionist. He was the founder of the Labour Party, the first Leader of the Labour Party and the first ever Labour Member of Parliament.

He was illiterate and illegitimate and started work aged 7. He was first educated at home by his mother who taught him to read & write in shorthand but later went to night school.

While working in the mines he soon became a full-time trade union organiser and he led the failed Ayrshire miners’ strike of 1881. This strike made a big impact upon the mine-owners and they granted important concessions out of fear of further industrial action in the future.

Hardie was a dedicated, “Georgist”, for some years, (Georgism, also called geoism and single tax), was an economic philosophy believing that people should own the value they produce themselves and the value derived from land should belong to all members of society.

He was also a member of the Scottish Land Restoration League. It was due to this, “Georgist”, doctrine on land monopoly Hardie eventually became a Fabian socialist. His reasoning being that “whatever the idea may be, State socialism is necessary as a stage in the development of the ideal.”

Hardie was sponsored by the Liberals, in April 1888, and Hardie stood as an Independent Labour candidate at the Mid Lanarkshire by-election but he finished last. However, Hardie became disillusioned by William Ewart Gladstone’s economic policies and began to feel that the Liberals did not really stand for the interests of the working classes and concluded the Liberal Party wanted the worker’s votes without believing in return the radical reform he believed to be crucial.

Then he again stood as a candidate for the Westminster Parliament but this time in England. He won the parliamentary seat of West Ham South as an independent candidate in 1892.

Thereafter he helped to form, “The Independent Labour Party”, (ILP). Then, in 1900, he helped to form the union-based, “Labour Representation Committee”, which was then renamed, “The Labour Party”, with which the ILP later merged. Hardie was also a lay preacher and temperance campaigner, who supported votes for women, self-rule for India, home-rule for Scotland, and an end to segregation in South Africa. At the outbreak of World War I, he tried to organise a pacifist general strike, but died soon afterwards.

So there you go, the person who began as a member of the Scottish Home Rule supporting Crofter’s party became the father of the Labour Party that also supported Home Rule for Scotland but the truth was that he, and the Labour Party he founded only ever paid lip service to the concept of Home Rule, (Not Scottish Independence), and the proof of that is in spite of Labour having several times held political power at Westminster as a majority government Labour has, when the chips were down, always backed the Union.

You really shouldn’t believe the Labour/unionist versions of history.

Tinto Chiel

The postal vote was clearly an Achilles’ heel, and recognised as such by the EU. If that loophole can be closed, and a sensible residency rule for voter qualification devised, then I would be confident of victory. Sadly, without these, not so much.

I know it’s an oft-repeated factoid, and it’s all pretty academic now anyway, but does anyone have any actual proof that the PV was taken to England for counting at some stage?

The exact effect of The Vow has never been quantified by any academic study I have heard of but in general most voters I encountered who voted against independence desperately needed some hook to hang their No on. It may have been “currency”, “ma pension”, loss of EU access, warm ‘n’ fuzzy WWII-inspired Better Togetherness (“Was it for this the clay grew tall?”) or whatever, but there was always a ready-made excuse to hand to stop them opening up their minds to consider opposing points of view.

The Vow did drive a horse and cart through purdah, though, and that is undeniable, despite the Philadelphia lawyer argument it was not espoused officially by the UK government, so that was ok then. Civil service contravention of their neutrality was clear and breath-taking, of course, something that must not be tolerated next time either.

Fred

Prog’ on Don Roberto, R.B.Cunninghame Graham just started on Radio Scotland.

Jimmy Reid was a stalwart of the Communist Party & had no time for Labour. He later joined the SNP.

Robert Peffers

@Effijy says: 20 February, 2018 at 12:32 pm:

“why then has the UK Gap between rich and poor widened for each of the last 55 years? Labour where in power for much of that time.”

I’ve told you why until i’m blue in the face, Effijy, but I’ll tell it again.

It was under a Labour Government at Westminster that the United Kingdom taxation system changed from being mainly a direct taxation system, (on income and wealth), to become mainly an Indirect Taxation System, (on goods & Services).

They knew full well that by doing so there would be a well known economic consequence for their actions. That well known economic effect is that under a direct taxation system those most able to afford to pay do pay while those lease able to afford it pay little or no taxes.

Under an indirect taxation system those main burdens of taxation switch to those least able to afford to pay taxation. Labour thus began the process of switching to indirect taxation. They introduced VAT and also applied it to services as well as on goods, they also began increased indirect taxation by such as Alcohol Duty, Betting Tax, Road Fuel Duty and increasingly added in more and more services that came under VAT.

The gap between the rich and the poor began to narrow and then crossed over in favour of the rich. The Conservatives, of course, welcomed the changes with open arms, and upon regaining power their first actions were to increase VAT, bring more items under VAT, and give more tax allowances to the rich.

Actions never reversed by Labour when they regained power and always both left and right could rely upon the LibDem support for such taxation with the inevitable result that under the present austerity measures the richest people in the United Kingdom have more than doubled their personal wealth while the biggest growth industry in the United Kingdom has been food banks.

heedtracker

BBC r4 doing a beeb toryboy eulogy to British socialism. Toryboys have won so why not, take huge shits all over their crushed enemy.

Looking forward to their toryboy rendering of filthy rich socialist workers like Gordo Brown, currently mincing round one of the poorest place in teamGB, Kirkcaldy.

link to bbc.co.uk

Bob Mack

If anyone is interested, there are 5 golden rules which Psychologists teach to anyone organising a marketing campaign.

They never fail, as in the Vow.

1. Run emotional ideas
2.Highlight your own flaw
3.Reposition your competition
4.Promote excusivity.
5.introduce fear,uncertainty and doubt.

Now compare these aspects to the wording of the vow and you will find its composition was not haphazard in any way.

We must be prepared to utilise the same methodology.

Dr Jim

As we all know and have been told in no uncertain terms by the BBCs Claire Balding, one cannot be Scottish or a Scot when representing team GB at the olympic games

But she’s wrong, in fact one can be Scottish and here’s the way to do it

*LOSE*…….Elise Christie

Yer Scottish all day long when you do that

You’ll have noticed our team GB curlers are all sti