Cracking the code
First of all, congratulations to the Herald for only being eight days behind a retired website on this story. Unusually fast work, lads.
Now let’s deal with the spin.
Gillian Martin is an Aberdeenshire MSP who’s had her own run-ins with the SNP’s Tranish Inquisition and has absolutely no excuse for not knowing what the Aberdeen Independence Movement is, so this is purest idiot-feed:
And of course the party’s eternally gullible are lapping it up.
But there’s zero doubt about what’s going on here, because everyone involved has already told us exactly what they’re planning, in their own words.
Here’s the text of the motion, signed by a whole raft of the party’s worst slime, explicitly citing the AIM document as the model they want to follow:
Something reinforced by Stewart Hosie at the AIM’s recent mini-summit.
Indeed, the pledge was apparently co-authored by SNP President Mike Russell.
The same article contained the full text of the pledge, including this passage:
And what is the definition of transphobia? We know what it is according to the SNP, because they published it five months ago:
Let’s just pull a bit of it out:
So there you have it. It really couldn’t be much clearer. If you call a transwoman a biological man (which every single transwoman, by definition, is), then you are guilty of transphobia by the SNP’s definition, and if you’re guilty of transphobia you’re expelled from the Yes movement.
Which is exactly what the Herald’s uncharacteristically-accurate headline says, and exactly what Wings told you more than a week earlier.
We’d be wholly astonished if this motion was defeated at the party’s stage-managed “conference” in October, not least because anyone opposing it would be pretty much automatically guilty of “transphobia” and bundled from the stage by a shrieking mob of balaclava-clad, Stonewall-approved Rainbow Stormtroopers (Black Pampers Division).
(30 days after the end of Holy Pride Month, and almost at the end of a month which is supposed to be highlighting people with disabilities, the SNP’s Twitter avatar is still the LGBTIAQWERTY+ one. The party’s Twitter account didn’t make a single tweet about disability in the whole of July so far as we can tell.)
But since there isn’t actually going to be an independence campaign anyway (the “conference” isn’t even being allowed to discuss the Great Leader’s new referendum policy, let alone be consulted on it in advance), we don’t suppose it really matters.
LGBTIAQWERTY+ – cant wait til they get to ‘C’. i wonder what it will abbreviate?
They can take their “Code of Conduct” and shove it. How dare they try to control how people in what they can and cannot believe in.
THIS is the prime example of the PROGRESSIVE CIVIC inclusiveness that certain posters are so intent on forcing people to adhere to, when or will the madness stop
If you do NOT agree with certain PROGRESSIVE ideologies or even dare to have a contrary view you will be labelled as undesirable and excluded from participation
PROGRESSIVENESS is the banner of self opinionated despots who cannot abide others having differing views from them on any subject , as far as they’re concerned their wisdom is gospel and cannot be challenged , to surrender to or placate these self opinionated despots only leads to more and more demands to adhere to more and more outrageous and stupefying ideas
We have examples of that stupefying fake progressive ideology on here every day but fortunately it is exposed for the deliberate attempt to undermine a cause that it is
“Black Pampers Division”…All the lols.
Archived link to the Herald article here,
link to archive.ph
No Indy campaign for me , if one actually happens .
Another example of the crap that persuaded me to resign from the SNP
I will simply self ID as not a SNP voter.
That thing wae the green jacket oan shouting witch, witch, witch. LMAO
Fecking demented thon.
That guy shouting witch must be in the Proud Tourettes division of loonballs.
Whars yer Geordie Orwell, noo? Ah, forget it!
The SNP have always mistaken a Yes vote as an SNP vote & think they own the YES movement.
They’ve constantly stuck their nebb in on how the yes movement should behave like they own the show. They’ve achieved feck all but an echo chamber of feckwits & misfits as predicted yrs ago that these conferences would end up becoming.
Is that the best they can come up with? A code of conduct? For who exactly cause it clearly doesn’t apply to themselves.
Would this be a not so covert way for that poisonous lot to finally get their wish & be rid of Cherry? They’re a poisonous lot.
Whom the gods would destroy they first make mad …
So, instead of working on indyref, the SNP is literally tying itself and others in knots about frankly idiotic ‘respect’ pledges. Seriously, what are they on?? I want independence, and it is nothing to do with the SNP how folk in the indy movement think.
This really reeks of student politics. The SNP have quite literally become the judean people’s front.
Meanwhile, Scotland is about to become shafted yet again by some unelected nobody in England called Rishi Sunak or Liz Truss, who will shortly proclaim themselves ‘ruler’, and be fetted by the ‘media’. It is time for the Scottish government to literally stop taking ANY rules from London, and to start running Scotland from Scotland, for Scots.
England is a joke country now, a failed state in every measurable way. Nothing works. If England wants an unelected fascist dictatorship (and all the signs are, that they are keen on it), then let them. Scotland is having none of it.
“..a transwoman a biological man (which every single transwoman, by definition, is)..”
The demand here is that you use the meaning-free neologism “assigned male at birth.”
There may not be a real independence campaign in 2023, but there will definitely be rehearsals as a way to consolidate control over the movement. As for Bellend Caledonia having input, twats like Greer were at least elected. I recall when Small was writing ambivalent stuff on GC feminism and didn’t even know which way the wind was blowing in “TRA Wars”. Well he certainly knows now. The naked clientelism around the SNP elite reminds me of the Tories procuring PPE.
Robert.
It’ll be Truss. Sunaks the wrong colour for good old blighty to accept the highest office. Never in a gazillion years. Hell would freeze over before he’d get his mitts on top secrets.
Then the media can discuss & dissect much more important topics as to who has the nicest shoes while Rome burns.
link to simple.m.wikipedia.org.
Aim et al. Are not grassroots indy they are yet another SNP shill org. A front… Like many others that have been seeded since 2014 to control and abuse REAL grassroots. Gilluan Martin is a party animal now. (ever since she lost her cabinet seat due to previous tweets). Believe In Scotland (another SNP front org) have the same bs code. There’s beenan organised effort to override grassroots orgs and other any non compliant ones since post 2016. You should do an expose on who all the SNP front groups are. Don’t trust anyone with the multicoloured YES flags…. They’re the SNPs bitches.
… Plus.
….
If misogyny is on their crime list…. That knocks put most of their campaigners, cultists and the entire toddler targeting squad…..
Meanwhile, while the children in the SNP squabble in the sandpit and try to impose Stalinist conditions on everyone else for who can join them, the wider independence movement is getting on with the job of figuring out how independence can be won (including if you have to bypass the party you elected to do it as they’ve sold you out) in a 3 day conference no SNP turned up to, and Alex Salmond is out doing town hall meetings all round the country getting Alba’s wee blue book out.
Middle class w****rs. Fine to let the poor starve of hunger or cold but don’t dare f*****g swear, be rude to opponents or call a c**k in a frock a bloke. FFS.
Indy is fucked isn’t it.
How can it have involved RIC Scotland? RIC Scotland has been wound up. It is an ex organisation, shuffled off this mortal coil, joined the choir invisible, it’s fucking snuffed it.
The West has serious existential problems.
This is one take on the scale of it.
link to unherd.com
«Modernity, in the final accounting, took aim at all authority, all tradition, everything rooted and everything past….the result of modernity’s revolutions would be the rise of a “new totalitarianism”. This time around it would not involve jackboots and uniforms. Instead, it would be a technocracy built on scientism and implemented by managerial elites, designed to ensure that order could continue after modernity had ripped up all former sources of authority and truth»
Big Tech is watching you, keeping you safe.
link to off-guardian.org
The politicians are the pimps for the New Order.
What is to be done when democracy itself is compromised?
We should mint a new RIC the Reality Independence Campaign. It should be non party political so SNP refugees can join. Lots were in RIC rather than Yes Scotland last time.
But it looks suspiciously like Alba are moving to do it on their own. Remember the architect of the SNP’s control freakery was on Alex Salmond. So do not be surprised. This AIM motion is primarily aimed at trying to neuter Alba. It is not aimed at us. It is Alba they are worried about.
What should happen is Alba and ISP and anyone else GC who wants to join should recreate a RIC like entity but I’m not holding my breath. I expect to be campaign homeless this time round.
The code is ‘cracked’ and so is the SNP.
“There is a crack in everything, That’s how the light gets in.”
Leonard Cohen
The crack in this case is this bonkers SNP policy it’s helping to shine a light on how crazy the SNP have become.
How can it have involved RIC Scotland
Alarmingly, after it folded, the name and logo was taken over by one of AIM’s wee nasties. So it has since “re-emerged” but is now nothing but an offshoot of AIM. Similar to how they took over Women for Indy and a few other orgs. So it’s likely there will be a pretend “RIC” that many will assume is the real thing, while in fact it’s anything but: it’s more of the same SNP-AIM tactics to neuter and stifle the real grassroots. It will, of course, be wholly signed up to any code of conduct, so people will believe all these organisations are, when in fact it’s a tiny handful of the worst, most abusive people behind it.
@Wulls — a lot more about Scotland than indy is fucked. That’s just political organisation. The entire cultural basis, together with the foundational assumptions on which it rests is fucked. Indy is the least of Scotland’s problems.
The wider Yes movement will need to get ahead of all of these tactics and form its own mass movement organisations with different names, logos etc and not rely on the comfort of 2014 names and logos, many of which have been taken over, gutted, repurposed etc. The SNP itself key among those, depressingly.
I know I am being cynical but is this another way where the SNP leadership is designing the outcome of the independence referendum to fail before it has even started?
@Wulls
O/T but not really, one of the people Christopher Pike claims to defer to has an article in the Herald’s sister paper praising new defamation laws – and, in particular, a new defence of publishing lies in the public interest.
WTAF is going on?
Before the SNP decided to ban me from their ‘campaign for independence’ I had decided I didn’t want to be part of a campaign led by misogynists anyway.
My problem is I can’t listen to Nicola Sturgeon, Patrick Harvie or any of the other misogynists who will be part of the ‘official SNP campaign for independence’.
Am I a ‘transphobe’ yes I am.
They can dictate that ‘transwomen are women’ & ‘transmen are men’ until the cows come home but that is just not registering with me. I blame my Scottish education.
They are going to have to set up some special re-education centre to help ‘transphobes’ like me. They will have to convince me that ‘a man is a woman’
maybe they could start by defining ‘what is a woman’ and ‘what is a man’.
PS Does a man have a vagina?
PPS Was the official YES movement not pretty shit in 2014.
We are watching an egg timer in motion.
All the sand is dribbling out of the SNP, and filling up behind the “alliance”; the amalgam of SALVO, ALBA, SSRG, and all the other progressives.
The SNP isn’t being left behind, it has been left behind. All that lies ahead for Sturgeon is a futile tantrum in the wilderness, because the people want Independence, not more of her fucked-up scheming and feckless weirdness.
I believe she’s blown it. We are reaching the point where the trickle becomes a flood. About bloody time.
There was a brilliant quote on Twitter…
The question isn’t “Why do young children need to see a drag Queen at school?”
The real question is “Why do drag queens need an audience of young school children?”
Aye. And the supplementary question, “What the fuck does any of this sleazy garbage have to do with Scottish Independence?”
This is of course simply just another of Sturgeons inserted road blocks to independence within her scorched earth policy
What about shortism, accentism, speckyism, lefthandedism, fatism, baldism, gingerism, bad breathism, etc. What’s needed is a comprehensive list of ism’s. The job is only half (arsed) done.
“Black Pampers Division”
It’s probably bad taste to call them the Provisional TRAs isn’t it (don’t blame me, I stole it from twitter).
In the unlikely (as in snowball’s chance in hell) event of there being an indy ref in 2023, we REALLY need to have (as others have said) non SNP aligned YES groups. Equally when the so called plebiscite election comes, Alba, ISP and any other pro Yes party need to decide
1. do they stand down, trusting the SNP to deliver with no conditions?
2. stand for election since we are told votes count not just seats – though Nikla will probably say votes for the SNP and Greens are the only ones that count
3. stand down, and state that if the seats and votes criteria aren’t met or they are but nothing happens to deliver independence, they will campaign against the SNP in the Holyrood 2026 elections.
4. Ignore all of this and try to find other ways of ending the union, SALVO, decolonisation etc etc.
Other than ruing out no1, I’m not sure of the best way forward. But I am sure AIM can take a flying jump though.
OK. Yes is behind in the poles.
We face the worst economic crisis since the war, much of it Westminster made.
A million Scots are facing starve or freeze this winter
and SNP want to expel people and put voters off for agreeing with science and nature!
Good luck to these Trans people.
They must have the same rights and respect the rest of us have.
I’ll call anyone any name they like him/her but it’s not the focus of needs.
I still say and always will say people with a penis don’t use female toilets.
If they don’t want to use the mens toilets there is always the disabled one and if they have the surgery then it’s the ladies.
I know they must suffer some mental torment that clouds their judgement but could there be some moles in the camp stir these things up ensure SNP become unelectable.
SNP are doing so badly voters are moving to the totally corrupt Tories and Lamentable Labour.
Would they settle for hormones and honours after independence.
If anyone thought for a nanosecond Sturgeon and her minions were serious about fighting an independence campaign, this divisive, authoritarian lunacy is proof that the sabotaging of it from within has already begun.
As Wee Chid said, I hear nothing from this party or government about the dreadful hardship people in the most energy-rich country in Europe are suffering right now and God knows what winter awaits us all.
And yet we’re supposed to give a flying fruit bat about something as synthetic a concept as “misgendering”?
The wrecking-ball of reality is needed to bring the whole rotten SNP edifice down but it would have to come from an electorate who which was clued in to what the leadership is about and determined enough to say, “Enough is enough.” Obviously the party has been completely captured by woke globalists and its MPs and MSPs are a mute and spineless bunch, and even a change of leader won’t alter that.
When the pretence and illusion of Indy 2 crumbles and disappears next Oct, if not before, what happens to all these tossers responsible for the above nonsense?
It’s difficult to see nothing other than a massive backlash from people who voted SNP and essentially will find themselves homeless when Truss is PM and Nicka has let down and deceived the country once again.
They are literally writing their own death sentence and we only have to look at the destruction of the Labour vote in Scotland to know that you can be gone for a generation and more, if you fail to deliver on your essential core mandate,
But do they care? Do they fcuk and all in a week where 1,330 of our poorest people lost their lives in Sturgeon’s Scotland, when energy prices will triple by the winter and so many face a horrible and bleak future, these ridiculous clowns have chosen to die on a hill with misogynistic men who hate and despise women….
God help us all…
Times like this ye really feel for WGD and his pals. They’ll be losing sleep trying to figure out how to defend this pish as well as warrant sales, fraud, and heaven only knows what else.
Hard work being a wheeshter!
A code of conduct for a country wanting Independence! we all know the supreme court is going to rule against the SG so we won’t need to worry about a referendum or a code of conduct, thank god.
” not least because anyone opposing it would be pretty much automatically guilty of “transphobia” and bundled from the stage by a shrieking mob of balaclava-clad, Stonewall-approved Rainbow Stormtroopers (Black Pampers Division).2
Ha, brilliant description, and lets not forget going by the piccy’s below your above paragraph, that the balaclava-clad rainbow warriors who harassed REAL women who were demonstrating for their rights were physically excited when intimidating the REAL women, and the police in attendance did nothing.
Anyway this, you’d better swear an oath to the wokie “yes” club is all a plot to exclude the real party of Scottish independence the Alba party and other indy minded outfits that know what a woman is.
Its basically a smear campaign against Alba for supporting REAL women.
If you are a REAL woman and value what rights you have left in Scotland, you’d be mental not to vote for the Alba party at every turn.
Imelda Sturgeon loves the fascist stonewall lbgtq dog groomers, but independence….nah forget it! What a wicked woman.
You can hardly imagine a proposal better placed to suck the life out of a campaign than AIM gatekeeping comment and acting as Sturgeon’s witchfinders against their own side.
And the rest of their side having a go back at them.
Meanwhile the UK literally burns. The time is now.
Yet the Yes movement stands like Nigel Quashie before an open Norwegian goal…
You can only take folk so far on your own selfish journey of fulfillment.
Sturgeon one day, will end up like Ceaucescu standing looking at the crowd from his balcony in disbelief that they now hated him.
You can take people for granted for a long time but pay
back is ultimately inevitable
“The Herald is taking this rather innocuous motion
about respectful debate, and respecting others, and
distorting it to the extreme, and unjustifiably and
disgracefully linking it to a sensitive/controversial issue
exactly to cause argument and division”
1930’s Germany…..what’s the fuss, it is only a little yellow star they have to pin on their clothing.
The Scottish people might benefit from a «party» wised up as to the nature of the world evolving around them, not one assuming the position in which the citizens get shafted by an infantalizing system with all cultural sophistication of the old pervs who stalk TikTok.
On another track, the SNP has been in power long enough to have set up the structures necessary for a sovereign state in waiting. On a specific the Met Office, located Exeter business park, an executive agency and trading fund of the UK Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy, handles the tech for Scotland. Why?
Iceland pop.<400k has a sophisticated structure for monitoring the country’s geophysics.
Infrastructure is an area in which the current régime appears to lack the requisite «can do». In progressing understanding and knowledge in this area some intelligence is certainly necessary.
Craig P: “Yet the Yes movement stands like Nigel Quashie before an open Norwegian goal…”
It was Chris Iwelumo. Quashie was rank but it’s a wee bit unfair to blame him for that! Pretty funny when you look back now, but anything but from my seat in the South Stand at the time. Must’ve celebrated for a full minute before, “WFT do ye mean he missed?!”
Of course the whole point of the sanctimonious AIM drivel is nothing to do with ‘tolerance’ and ‘respect’. Rather it is another unsubtle attempt by SNP cultists to have control over all aspects of a Yes movement. The more pertinent question will be what sanction they will seek over refuseniks and free thinkers. Their attempt to button up Yes and police the thoughts of others is entirely consistent with their demagoguery. What chance independent thought in an independent Scotland controlled by them?
“It’s probably bad taste to call them the Provisional TRAs “
100% stealing that ?
Robert Louis @7.28
‘ unelected fascist dictatorship – Scotland’s having none of it’
Sadly, in Sturgeon, Scotland has all of it. Worse still, the people elected her.
and bundled from the stage by a shrieking mob of balaclava-clad, Stonewall-approved Rainbow Stormtroopers (Black Pampers Division). Lol ?
Or the provisional TRA’s ??
Comedy gold .
Just how f***ed up is “f***ed up”? Simply look at the SNP!
Horrendous as AIM and the Provisional TRA’s are, I’m afraid their misogynistic idiocy is still totally unknown to large sections of the population who aren’t as politically engaged or knowledgeable as the folk who post in here.
After a social event yesterday I was having drinks with a group of neighbours and friends who attended the event, some pro and some anti independence. Only myself and one other female member of the group had any inkling of what was going on with the Provisional TRA’s, TWAW, the attacks on women’s safe spaces, women’s prisons, the going’s on at the Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre etc. A few of the others were dimly aware of some of the issues, and Joanna Cherry being monstered and othered (interestingly all of those present – even the unionists – rated Cherry highly).
All of the others were taken aback at what we discussed: a few frankly disbelieved what we were saying, and it was only really because myself and the other guest who knew what was going on are politically poles apart that it gave the rest pause for thought.
We can’t assume the population as a whole either knows about these issues, or centres them to the extent many of us do. Even if they think the Provisional TRA’s policies and beliefs are abhorrent, anti-scientific woo-woo when they are explained to them, sadly a lot may still just shrug and move on, on the principle that it’s just what politicos do, and have always done.
They’ll put their heads down and concentrate on the current economic crisis, how they can pay their energy bills and make ends meet, and – sadly – many of them will still dutifully vote SNP on the principle that the alternatives are worse, and they haven’t really heard much about Alba and/or don’t like Alex Salmond.
Andy Ellis @ 11:51 am
Yes, you are spot on. Most people I know have little or no clue about what the state of play is, sadly. They simply couldn’t care less.
The SNP INDY DEATH CULT is knock knock knocking on * Heaven’s Gate * . Scanning the skies for the return of Hale-Bopp , which this time around will bear the telltale likeness to the exploding star from the outer reaches of the Transiverse called Sturgeon’s Arse and herald a total eclipse of Independence and a new dawn for all AIMs chillun .
And people here and elsewhere are STILL talking about winning a Referendum or PE . With these lunatics dictating the campaign .
Are you out of your minds ?
Still too we hear ” there are good people in the SNP ” : never was an oxy so moronic .
There can’t be any * good people * in an organisation so thoroughly currupted and beyond redemption .
Actual good people wouldn’t be seen within a mile of such an impending disaster
” I’m afraid their misogynistic idiocy is still totally unknown to large sections of the population who aren’t as politically engaged or knowledgeable as the folk who post in here.”
Ellis
Well, well, well, the above is a big surprise.
Your sentence must encompass The Claim of Right and all it conventions and assemblies as well, for they too are mostly unknown to the wider Scottish public.
Your sentence must encompass The Claim of Right and all it conventions and assemblies as well, for they too are mostly unknown to the wider Scottish public.
And you point is caller…?
Can you imagine a TV debate between Better Together and whatever spokesman/woman/non-binary the SNP/Greens have put forward to humiliate us…
Host: “So how do you define a woman?”
BT rep (knowing full well that this isn’t so much an Achilles heel as a whole fkin leg plus most of the torso): “A woman is an adult human female.” This answer will be given despite what they might actually think.
Yes rep: {Insert garbled, biology-defying lunacy here.}
Aghast TV audience: “WTAF???”
Most agree the stupidity of all this trans self ID nonsense.
Question is where is the money behind all this ? This hasn’t just happened by chance .
Stonewall and umpteen others must have been bought ? By whom?
How can you become an SNP Council leader with such a history and warnings apparently
from a number of sources and then this-
It is the Westminster Record but where is the correction to these claims?
link to dailyrecord.co.uk
@Robert Hughes
And people here and elsewhere are STILL talking about winning a Referendum or PE . With these lunatics dictating the campaign .
I doubt many (any?) folk in here still think a referendum is likely in any reasonable timescale, still less in 2023 as the SNP loyalists insist.
Many are however fairly convinced that plebiscitary elections are probably the most likely rout to independence in any reasonable timescale. Irrespective of whether the SNP rank and file grow a pair and politically defenestrate Sturgeon and her unsavoury cabal or not, winning 50% + 1 of votes in either a Westminster or Holyrood election, whilst not easy, still seems a more plausible route than the “cunning plans for indy” being proposed as an alternative.
Laudable as the aims of Salvo, SSRG and others might be in educating the movement about the country’s constitutional past, 300 year old treaties and their many and various potential schemes for concocting a Convention of the Estates / National Assembly / Constituent Assembly / Sovereign Scottish People’s Assembly, none of them have convincingly shown how such schemes are likely to produce results faster than plebiscitary elections in 2024 or perhaps earlier.
There seems to be a growing school of thought that a crisis is coming, and that it will somehow accelerate matters and provide a shortcut. I think it was Hatuey who insisted on an earlier thread that the timescale was 4 months. I have my doubts, though perhaps in five months time events will have proven me wrong, and him right.
It just seems like there’s a whole lot of wishful thinking going on that some deus ex machina is going to drop the ideal circumstances in to the laps of proponents of “cunning plans for indy”. I wonder what odds the bookies would give for this upcoming Great Reset?
Now we can see the reason for the sudden flurry of activity on the moribund SNP independence front. Beginning with their bound-to-fail reference to the Supreme Court, the SNP has grabbed the initiative, set the vehicle for Scottish independence on fire and sent it careering downhill to crash and burn while Sturgeon and her cohorts dance gleefully.
I don’t believe for a moment that Mike Russell believes any of this rancid nonsense but that he, with the rest of the authoritarian leadership, are bent on destroying any cohesive attempts at a unified movement and this is their means of blowing it apart.
Like the mad fringe of self-id believers, they would rather close down any rational route to independence. This will be their legacy and many will not forget or forgive them for this because it is their obvious intention to shatter any hopes of independence.
A code of conduct surely coming to a political party near you anytime soon.
It cannot be too long before signing up and adhering to such Official Narratives becomes a precondition for employment; trade union membership; receipt of benefits (including pension); having a bank account; renting or owning a house; access to utility services; shopping; voting, access to money and resources; obtaining a bus pass/passport/
birth certificate; health treatment; being allowed to marry; funeral services; education; and being allowed to die for your Country.
Re «head of state» concept.
The US has an elected monarch who fulfills all the criteria for past use date, but the Americans are stuck with him, unless he sinks further into senility (but who can tell?), until nov. 2024.
Being no fan of such elected monarchic functions, the less «power» in the hands of individuals, whether notional or not, the better, an iScotland could get by with an ad hoc figure chosen at random from the electoral list for the occasion.
iScotland ought to stand out from the herd. Bidens, Xis, Macrons, Al Sisis, presidential palaces no thanks. Republics do not need such props, the people and the constitution they collectively and rationally formulate and develop ought to be enough.
Thou shalt not deify the state, neither shalt thou make demi gods of its functionaries.
Provisional TRAs.
That’s exactly what they are.
They’re dangerous & unhinged incels.
They can’t get a shag from either sex, not even the animals, so the world must pay.
These nutters even have their own dark forums to plot from or ranting YouTube channels. Look at that nutter from Plymouth who went on a murderous rampage. Psychologists have dedicated analysis channels to. Yep! They’re mentally unstable folks! Approach with extreme caution. That can even include looking at them the wrong way. They have multiple disorders.
Sturgeon: Yay! mon in folks! We’re welcoming! I’ll gie ye a job setting policy!
Maybe she’s not getting any either? ?
Just roll on with proper campaigning, as Alex Salmond is doing at the moment, and ignore them.
They SNP has no right whatsoever to set itself up as some kind of certification body or disciplinary committee for the entirety of the independence campaign. If members of the SNP think it necessary to sign a pledge over and above the code of conduct all members sign up to when they join their party, that is their business.
Each party, or campaigning organisation, as they well know, is entitled to deal with matters of discipline by itself according to its own code.
Robin McAlpine being a serious writer stops short of calling “Nikkis plans for indy” a bag of shite – but he is using analogies of mazes, without exits – which is a very clever way of putting it.
– alienating the majority of folk and prospective new supporters to placate an insane special interest group, throwing us all out of the wider indy movement – looking like maniacs – yeah, its almost like they don’t want to win, but that’s just a “conspiracy theory”
“for people who like that sort of thing, that is the sort of thing they like … ” – quite
As you age, you find, often with dismay, that “mad old bastards” from the past – were actually right about everything, e.g. Mary Whitehouse was banging on about all this back in the 1970s, she saw where it would lead (we giggled at Dick Emery and thought it all a joke) – and what of today? Perhaps a re-appraisal of the Westboro Baptist Church is in order.
“Seizing the dictionary” as a tactic, creating your own definitions and (nonsense) concepts, along with re-definitions of existing terms – is pretty clever. Then by relentless activism you get a lot of “reasonable sounding” laws put on the books, but they are now applied with draconian intent, to silence opponents. The jewish lobby – very clever fellows – did this first with THEIR definition of “anti semitism”.
Not only is “transphobia” redefined in their terms, but so are a bunch of other terms – “anglophobia”? – a little satirical sketch about the “new colonials” at House of Bruar in their Range Rovers, would I transgress? Or what about saying “indy is about the Scots” and “Scotland belongs to the Scots” – is that ethnic wrong-nationalism? Does claiming someone born here, with parents and grandparents born here, lived, schooled and worked here – all his life – having more claim to Scotland than an outsider, fail? WTF is indy about if it is not about the Scots, I mean the outsiders already have the run of it.
Because these folks are mostly idiots (wound up by others) they fail to realise the inconsistency of their own position; religious exemptions can let you say what you like – “Islamophobia” is also forbidden, but islam is strongly against woke-ism. I am hoping that sometime soon, some hysterical tranny defames the prophet on social media, then we will see trouble.
Our own “deplorables” will save us from the trans menace (as predicted)
link to dailymail.co.uk
and a bonus track
link to thescottishsun.co.uk
Certainly not running with Andy’ s so often mentioned civic nationalism, much prefer the natives idea of the word nationalism.
But here is the laughable paradox here from AIM, they have just enacted and ticked of everyone of their own boxes.
The SNP have just used DISCRIMINATION to target a specific group in Scotland,
Showing a predjudjuce towards the Indy group specifically before all others.
Rejecting all other groups in Scotland such as Tory party, civil servants, tourists, labour party forieign visitors, A visiting prime minster from England. Unless the SNP are boss over Westminster too.
Thus displaying in-Equality towards a certain Group of people in Scotland,
Showing intolerance towards independence groups for Scotland group only.
By rejecting their rights in the community
To have equal freedom
If leaving the Union is to get anywhere, it cannot be via the SNP. That much should be clear to the most loyal of loyalists and headbangers, the latter never intending to have independence in any case. If we want a better Scotland after independence, we cannot so that with the SNP either. The answer? Get rid of the SNP.
The arrogance of these people cited is legendary: each one would eat him/her self if he/ she was made of chocolate. They are poseurs and virtue-signallers, all. God, Mike Russell! When he started sporting that stupid itty-bitty beard-not-a-beard, I sussed the direction he was going in. You are an old man, Michael, not some spotty teenage trans activist, so grow up. You don’t even believe in this rubbish. Daddy Bear, as per, leading the infants like the Pied Piper of Stirling, slavering over the next step to power. Waste of space, the lot of them.
We have to get shot of these people and their cohort – all of them – before we can even contemplate getting out of the Union. These people are either British State agents or so malign and power-hungry that they really believe this s***e and will use it to keep us in what will be a Scottish pronoun prison. Men in frocks are men. Women in beards are women. No ifs, no buts. Stop treating them as if they don’t actually know that. They know.
Like the two ‘trans women lesbians’ set up on a date with each other who each blew his top, wailing: I wanted a woman. Ay, ye did, ye big, walloping woman facers. You wanted a woman to f**k, which makes you predatory, heterosexual MEN. That the SNP should have enabled all this c**p is testament to its uselessness on independence and much else. They are playing a game as per with people who have supported them physically, spiritually and monetarily, using them again, spitting contempt in their faces. We need to get them out of Scottish politics – all of them. SNP! OUT, OUT, OUT!
The wishful thinking is a plebicite election run by the snp. Under stone wall ideology,
The very purpose of the the devolved government was to styme any evidence of a way forward to independence.
“And you point is caller…?”
My point is spread all over the end of the last thread, where you derided them and Sarah Salyers, but well leave it at that.
“Lorna Campbell says:
31 July, 2022 at 2:04 pm
If leaving the Union is to get anywhere, it cannot be via the SNP.”
Bang Lorna, Sturgeon has betrayed us and her MPs and MSPs have kept quiet on what’s actually going on within the nuSNP, the prefer to keep their snout pressed firmly into the taxpayers trough, rather than stand up for Scotland.
Unfortunately many of the indy masses can’t see past her or her party and they think she’ll still deliver independence, boy are they in for a rude awakening.
Why Sturgeon’s Witchfinder General decided to allow the UKSC to decide.
link to yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com
RepublicofScotland 2:13pm
I wonder if those *fingers in ears* types were ever indy to start with?
I have my doubts.
Haud: the money has been tracked back to Big Pharma, Big Tech, etc. These are owned by American families, some with a ‘trans’ member – usually a great, hulking brute in a frock who appears to be barely human, let alone a woman. American politicians have enabled these people – narcissists to a man and – er – man for bungs.
This is where it started, then spread to Canada where Justin the Unjust introduced it into every Canadian institution. It then spread to London, before coming up here, where the SNP was ripe for plucking. It is rooted in predatory capitalism, neoliberalism and neoconservatism, all masquerading, like the men in frocks, as left wing. It did start in the hard left, but the hard left, as we should be aware by now, always opens the door to the right and hard right with its insane policies.
Many of us will be left-wing or even moderate conservative with a small ‘c’, but these two extreme wings of the left and right are quite deranged. Destroying everything from the past and reconstructing society along the lines of complete freedom – actually complete sexual freedom – is, very naturally, a recipe for disaster, but when society breaks down, it is ripe for plucking like the SNP was, to be used and abused by those whose sole motivation is profit and totalitarianism for the masses, off-set by sex till you boak with anyone and anything living or dead, regardless of age.
Modification of bodies, the need for life-long drugs and blockers alone will provide massive profits for the few individuals poised to take advantage. The West is just the beginning, so beware every other continent. China has already opened its first ‘trans’ clinic as we are closing down the Tavistock, in England. This entire movement is predicated on predation and parasitical invasion. It was never about puir wee sowels who had dysphoria/dysmorphia (a minuscule number of people); it was always about the tranquillizer of unlimited sex for the masses to blind them to their fate.
RepublicofScotland 2.26pm.
Same reason Evans wasn’t sacked. BoJo is her boss, not Sturgeon.
Holyrood is a Mickey Mouse administration of Westminster. Thats all. A grandiose talking shop. It has no authority to take a crap without Westminsters appointed informers reporting back to their boss.
If our Sovereignty is to get its first airing this is it,
Let us get this straight from the beginning, I severely oppose any form of violence in Scotland to gain our independence, so any deliberate antagonist trying to ramp it up here or any where else should be ignored,
there is a good indication which side their bread is buttered on.
Elections are to distant in the future to hold any meaning to the damage being done here and now to the Scots, and Scotland.by the SNP.
Withdrawning support for the snp is one of the quickest method, Not just by party members but by those of us not a snp members also.
A protest can take many forms, I quite like the Idea someone mentioned long time ago, no marches where we can be beaten up, but a protest by withdrawn financial support,
Just protect your finances before taking part would be my advise,
now the reason for furlough and everyone put on to universal credit becomes obvious, your bank accounts can be plundered, stopped and controlled by governments before you receive it,
Their not daft, they thought ahead,
But this is only one way to protest the snp out of government.
That SNP logo on their website with the rainbow colours instead of the usual black logo on a yellow background. This means SNP has been infiltrated/taken over/whatever by the UK/US deep state. Five Eyes/ MI5/ whoever will be very proud!
We will need another mass indy organisation if there is another ref.
Hail Alba!
James che says:
31 July, 2022 at 2:46 pm
now the reason for furlough and everyone put on to universal credit becomes obvious, your bank accounts can be plundered, stopped and controlled by governments before you receive it,
Their not daft, they thought ahead,
You’ve come out with some barking nonsense in your time, but this tinhat drivel truly takes the Tunnocks.
What chance do we have?
Watching Englands Fallen Empire Games on TV.
The team Triathalon is on and Scotland in credible 5th place.
Hand over to Sophia Green to begin her swim.
Every single competitor proudly wearing their nations colours except this woman
who has a Union Jack wet suit on.
If it were up to me, I’d sunk her Scottish representation right there!
@Mark Boyle –
Have just read your 9.51am comment on the previous thread.
Very interesting, thanks.
“Watching Englands Fallen Empire Games on TV.”
Effigy.
At first the games represented the power and reach of imperialist Britain, now they are reported on a sign of Britain’s benevolence by the Britnat media.
On the Butchers Apron wetsuit maybe she’s a relative of Ian (Union Jack Suit) Murray.
“Same reason Evans wasn’t sacked. BoJo is her boss, not Sturgeon.”
Geri.
You’ll get no argument for me on that, MI5 must have shitload of dirt on her into the bargain, and Fifth Column parties aside at Holyrood Labour/LibDems/Tories, the betrayers MSPs/MPs who are gutless and spineless must also have within their ranks those working for the English security services.
We’re fighting a system full of House Jocks from top to bottom, from the Civil service to the COPFS the Police, Judiciary, councillors etc, who are all on the unions gravy train placed or parachuted into position as gatekeepers for the status quo.
A status quo that keeps Scotland tied to this union, and stops Scotland from fulfilling its potential.
Using the term transwoman or transman according to the SNP’s definition of transphobia is transphobic.
The term transwoman/transman immediately outs that person as being a biological man/woman.
How can you have trans pride if you are ashamed of being trans?
Can anyone tell me what is meant by intemperate language?
Does this just mean ‘thou must not swear’ or would it cover Nicola Sturgeon/Patrick Harvie having a hissy fit.
My other question is how many of the phobias listed in their ten commandments are illegal/a hate crime
already.
ie Anglophobia, Islamophobia = racism
Misogyny recently added as hate crime.
Perhaps they should add ‘thou must not ‘steal’ money donated by supporters for an independence campaign.
Is it possible that people are aware of what is going on in Scotland because they only read The Times & watch BBC.
People will know all about the Tory leadership contest but not a clue what is going on in their own backyard.
Ooops unaware not aware.
Certainly not running with Andy’ s so often mentioned civic nationalism, much prefer the natives idea of the word nationalism.
You – as a blood and soil nativist – and your regressive populist compadres, don’t get to (re)define civic nationalism as a movement that endorses the Provisional TRA thougn James.
As others, including Rev Stu himself, have pointed out if you believe in nativism and disenfranchising up to 20% of Scots because you’re ferat they might vote the wrong way, you are every bit as dangerous to the success of the independence movement as the Provisional TRA.
Nativists are not on the same side as mainstream civic nationalists just because you believe in the same ultimate goal, anymore than the candy floss haired Twitler Youth infesting the SNP and Greens are on the same side as us because they also (purport to?) believe in independence.
The small minority of populists within the movement who advocate franchise restriction or wholesale disenfranchisement of large numbers of New Scots can try and reframe civic nationalism all they want, but it just won’t wash.
@RepublicofScotland
My point is spread all over the end of the last thread, where you derided them and Sarah Salyers, but well leave it at that.
I agree your point is all over the place, but that’s just par for the course with your input, so hard to tell. I can see why you’d want to leave such a weak hand on the table. I didn’t deride anyone. I asked pertinent questions and cast doubt on airy assertions of certainty made by those pushing “cunning plans for indy”.
As yet, not a single person has been able to answer the quite reasonable questions asked about who decides who will constitute these novel bodies, whatever they are called, who will pay for them, how they will demonstrate majority support, and whether there is any support from relevant subject matter experts to support their proposals.
(Note: Sara Salyers, Alf Baird and others, whatever their other qualities are NOT experts in constitutional law or history as far as I’ve been able to discern).
Refer to them as what they are,Terrorists. They also seem to like sporting the outfit too.
If this were a religious group spreading dangerous ideology & dumb science to terrorise with threats of violence & hate it would’ve been classified as such a long time ago & it’s oxygen removed.
Instead we seem saddled with a moron who not only placates it but funds it too.
Feck their jumped up code of conduct & the nutters who wrote it. Giving into these nutjobs demands only fuels further extremism to keep amending their list as ‘but not limited to’ proves.
Ruby, it’s had passing comment in the leadership debates. Passing being the operative word i.e fuck off, morons – the adults are talking right now.
Andy Ellis
What is it Stu is supposed to have said regards disenfranchising 20% of voters?
As has been pointed out to you repeatedly, other countries & Inc UNs *internationally recognised & accepted best practices* do not have a free for all on important matters such as a countries constitutional affairs.
But, Einstein, when we do eventually have indyref2 shall we put that theory to the test again just to make doubly sure next time?
What other countries do this? None.
Weird, but somehow i do not associate Scot.gov with fecundity, more go forth and atrophy.
You are the only danger to the independence movement.
You’re the only one advocating breaking internationally recognised standards & have a free for all Scotland’s constitutional matters.
Resulting in the same failed experiment on Scotland’s right to self determination decided for us by the exact same outsiders & then it really would be generations to recover.
What’d you say then? Oh, you just didn’t convince enough outsiders to your cause BS?
You’re not an indy supporter are you? No one enters a race with their hands tied behind their back. You want to knobble any vote. Stick to the doomed to fail recipe we had before eh?
@Geri
I refer you to Stu’s exasperated thread of 13th July 2021 on twitter:
“ If you want to deny 20% of the people who live in Scotland the vote in a referendum because they were born somewhere else , we’re not on the same side.
If you want their votes, fucking well persuade them. If you can’t, your case is shit.
And stop whining that by saying this I’m trying to “shut down debate”. I have no power and no desire to stop you debating it. You can debate it all you want. I’m not reporting you to Twitter or the police. I’m just not interested.
We debated this in 2011 and we came to the right decision. Nothing has happened that justifies abandoning that principle in my view. You can’t just disenfranchise people because you think they’ll vote the wrong way.
As well as being morally wrong, it’s almost certainly self-defeating. The Scotland you’d be trying to sell people under that franchise is a very different place to the one we were advocating in 2014, and very much for the worse.
That, of course, is true in many ways. If we got a referendum tomorrow I don’t in all honesty know if I could bring myself to campaign in it, because it’d be a *de facto* campaign for Nicola Sturgeon’s vision of a hellish, intolerant, incompetent and corrupt Scotland.
But that’s not a decision I need to lose sleep over, because we’re not getting a referendum tomorrow, or next year, or the year after that, or the year after that.
But I’ve officially lost any urge to even think about it, if even the people opposed to that awful vision just have a different kind of awful vision, of a country where only “ethnic Scots” have a say. Bollocks to that.”
As has been pointed out to you repeatedly, other countries & Inc UNs *internationally recognised & accepted best practices* do not have a free for all on important matters such as a countries constitutional affairs.
And as has been pointed out to you and other regressive nativists repeatedly, you are NOT comparing like with like. The franchise used by ALREADY independent countries to decide constitutional questions is based on CITIZENSHIP. Scotland doesn’t have citizens, because it is not yet independent.
Self determination referendums – outside colonial situations – OVERHWELMINGLY use residence criteria, not birth, ethnic or “future citizenship” criteria.
No matter how often you and others try to obfuscate this issue, you misdirection becomes no more true, and no more convincing. Go and do the research yourself if you doubt it. There are a coupe of instances of places seeking self determination applying residence criteria of 24 months AT MOST.
You don’t have to be Einstein to see that regressive nativism and franchise restriction is morally wrong, electorally questionable and out of step with international practice and precedent, you just need a functioning internet connection and a moral compass.
What’s your excuse?
“(Note: Sara Salyers, Alf Baird and others, whatever their other qualities are NOT experts in constitutional law or history as far as I’ve been able to discern).”
Ellis
As far as I’m aware none of them claim to be, but that didn’t stop you, and your gang ridiculing their comments strange for someone who purports to “support” an independent Scotland.
@Geri
You are the only danger to the independence movement.
So me, and Rev Stu, every pro-indy political party and virtually everyone in any position of influence in the movement are dangers to the independence movement, but you and a small coterie of regressive, populist nativists are the keepers of the true flame? Aye, right. Away and gie yer heid a shake.
You’re the only one advocating breaking internationally recognised standards & have a free for all Scotland’s constitutional matters.
The international standards for self determination referendums are clear. Precedent is clear:
– Quebec (1980 & 1995) enfranchised all Canadian citizens resident in Quebec;
– Slovenia (1990) enfranchised all Slovenian citizens including those Yugoslav citizens with internal ID cards who were born in other Yugoslav republics;
– Lithuania (1991) enfranchised all people who held Lithuanian nationality in 1940 and their descendants, and Soviet citizens to agreed to renounce their Soviet citizenship between 1989 & 1991. Soviet military personnel stationed in Lithuania were specifically excluded.
– Estonia (1991) – Individuals with a permanent Soviet residence card in Estonia (i.e. including all former non-ethnically Estonian Soviet citizens).
– Latvia (1991) – Individuals with a permanent Soviet residence card in Latvia.
– Macedonia (1991) enfranchised on the same basis as Slovenia and allowed its citizens abroad to participate.
– “The country that shall no be named” (1991) – Residents in the country. The Electorate also included Soviet soldiers stationed in the country.
– Bosnia & Hercegovina (1992) – Yugoslavian citizens with permanent residency.
– Timor L’Este (1999) – Those born in the country, with a parent born in the country, or whose spouse or in-laws were born in the country.
– Montenegro (2006) – Individuals with 24 months minimum residency, and all those with Serb-Montenegrin nationality.
– South Sudan (2011) – All permanent residents of South Sudan or those whose parents or grandparents were permanent residents since 1956.
– Scotland (2014) – Residents in Scotland with British, EU or Commonwealth nationality.
– Catalonia (2014) – Residents in Catalonia with Spanish nationality, EU nationality, EEA nationality or Swiss nationality.
If anyone is proposing something contrary to internationally recognised standards it is you and the blood and soil nationalists infecting the movement.
Resulting in the same failed experiment on Scotland’s right to self determination decided for us by the exact same outsiders & then it really would be generations to recover.
Persuade more people to vote Yes. Register more voters. Increase turnout. All of those would swamp the number of New Scots you and your regressive populist mates want to disenfranchise.
You’re not an indy supporter are you? No one enters a race with their hands tied behind their back. You want to knobble any vote. Stick to the doomed to fail recipe we had before eh?
Typical hard of thinking nativist response. Anyone disagreeing with them can’t be a *real* independence supporter. It’s exactly the same kind of othering tactics and smearing used by Project Fear during indyref1. I’d ask if you and yer regressive mates had no shame, but long experience has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that you don’t.
Far easier to hide behind the anonymous ID on here and spout your regressive nativism, because you’re too chicken shit to own it publicly.
“And as has been pointed out to you and other regressive nativists”
Ellis.
I take it by above sentence you are referring to the English government who have suspended democracy by denying Scots a right to hold an indyref, as Theresa May and Boris Johnson’s government has.
The other regressive nativist Liz Truss has said that she won’t under any circumstances allow another indyref, yes I think we all know who the, as you put it, regressive nativists really are.
Constitutional wise other nations do not always enfranchise those not born in the country, Scotland has to be extra careful on who it enfranchises due to our position of being tied to this god awful union. I still support a ten years residency, however this doesn’t help negate PVS tampering in such an important vote.
In my opinion postal votes should be counted where they are, and not moved, they should always be hand counted in full view, and no ex-Tory or private firms software should be used in the process.
Of course with a treacherous wretch such as Sturgeon at the head of any indyref campaign, none of the above will be adhered to, in my opinion Sturgeon should not be anywhere near an indyref, and I hope she never is.
As far as I’m aware none of them claim to be, but that didn’t stop you, and your gang ridiculing their comments strange for someone who purports to “support” an independent Scotland.
I didn’t say they had, but the proponents of “cunning plans for indy” keep citing their unassailable evidence and bigging up their achievements. It’s hardly exceptional to ask where the back up for their analysis is from SME in the relevant field, and yet…there appears to be nothing. Not a single one, whether from Scotland, the rest of the UK or internationally. Seems a bit odd? Have they asked?
As for the “purports to “support an independent Scotland” ” dig, remember, I’m not the snivelling anonymous online coward hiding behind their anonymity like you, so I can safely post how the residents of “Country 404” had it coming amongst other gems.
Unlike you, I don’t have to lower myself to construct fanciful conspiracy theories that anyone who disagrees with them *must* be a yoon, or an MI5 agent, or a Sturgeonite stooge. It just makes you look a bit barking. Moonhowler is as moonhowler does I suppose? Conspiracy theorising and regressive nativism seem to be circles that overlap almost totally in the Venn diagram of Scottish nationalism.
In news for our regressive nativist claque in here, Alba Edinburgh branch had a street stall in Stockbridge today. Apparently reception was excellent, and I quote: “especially from new Scots from Australia and the US”.
That’ll be the same new Scots the blood and soil types want to disenfranchise then? Shame that…!
Shall we tell them to come back in 10 years time when Republicofscotland thinks they’ll be valid?
The vote for foreigner abroad is always that straight forward.
Antigua and Barbuda
(CN member) Commonwealth citizens may vote and are eligible for parliamentary elections, but “allegiance to a foreign State” is a criterion for ineligibility
Argentina.
Though foreign residents cannot vote in national elections (president and vice–president and national legislators), they can vote in provinces which have legislation to allow foreigners to vote in provincial/municipal elections.
Austria
(EU member) In 2002, non-citizens were granted voting rights in state elections in Vienna, but the decision was overturned by the Constitutional Court in June 2004.
I’m not going to post them all but many as you can see don’t give the vote (constitutional) or if they do in some cases (check the link) a residency criteria (time lived in the country is mandatory.
Barbados
(CN member) As of 1990, Commonwealth citizens may vote for parliamentary elections with a 3 years residency requirement.
Belize
(CN member) Commonwealth citizens who are domiciled or have resided in the country for at least one year immediately before polling day are qualified as electors, but not for eligibility to the House of Representatives, which requires Belize citizenship.
Canada
(CN member) Voting rights at the federal level in Canada are exclusively limited to Canadian citizens.
link to en.wikipedia.org
Can we please take Dorothy Devine’s advice from months ago and ignore that foghorn?
He has slowly but surely returned to the behaviour which ended up dominating each and every thread. He’s strangling every conversation with the usual mixture of insults and circular arguments. I’m as guilty as anyone else of rising to it but it’s plain that he’s not changed in any way and is just reverting to type.
If Stu’s not going to enforce his own warnings then we have to take it into our own hands – boycott Ellis by blanking him, period. I got a private message from a well-known blogger, night before last, asking why Stu allows characters like this to demean the place with constant aggression and insults. I had to tell him I haven’t a clue. Bottom line – Ellis is damaging this place and putting off people reading and/or commenting. And he’s doing it deliberately.
RepublicofScotland
Correct. & All explained before.
But Andy knows best, in all things & will try involve moderation if need be.
That *internationally recognised* shite he keeps spouting is soon dropped when it comes to Scotland & her affairs.
Strange that eh?
@Republicofscotland
All of the examples you quote have precisely zero to do with self determination. You know this. Alert readers know this. Comparing apples with oranges doesn’t help what passes for you argument. Do better. Be better. We can but hope.
How many new Scots are there from Australia & the US?
Re the 10 year residency.
Is that 10 consecutive years or a total of 10 years?
I remember sitting through the franchise debate way back in 2012 or whenever it was.
Every proposal had it’s problems. The solution had to be compromise.
I can spot many problems with asking for 10 consecutive years of residency.
THE 2014 franchise would be fine if they excluded holiday home owners, temporary students and those resident for only a month.
More could be done to tighten up on postal votes.
What I would love to know is why the franchise is such a burning issue here on Wings.
@Andy Ellis 6:23pm
Can I just add the legal work informed by International lawyers on the Irish Reunification referendum and the franchise in particular. Huge amount of effort has gone into making the result unimpeachable. And that’s what you need for a clean sustainable post referendum solution. I have commented on this research before but its lost in the sands of time. On Stu’s original post on Provo TRA no dissenters again. Why is this message not breaking through to the Scottish Public?.
I’ve just remember this:
Rev. Stuart Campbell says:
6 July, 2022 at 12:48 pm
Andy Ellis, Ruby: if either of you ever mentions the other by name (including any “clever” ways of doing so indirectly) again in any context whatsoever you’re banned. Clear? Not comment deleted, not pre-moderation, banned.
I have HAD ENOUGH of this fucking playground shit.
Gotta go otherwise I could end up being banned.
Bye!
George Ferguson says:
31 July, 2022 at 7:03 pm
On Stu’s original post on Provo TRA no dissenters again. Why is this message not breaking through to the Scottish Public?.
I was on my way out when I spotted your very interesting question George. Could it be that it’s just too far fetched for people to take seriously?
I’m as guilty as anyone else of rising to it but it’s plain that he’s not changed in any way and is just reverting to type.
Pot…meet kettle. You keep flouncing off having had your arse handed to you in argument Ian, but like a dog returning to its own vomit here you are again. I’ll happily ignore all your contributions, as I had been doing for months until you just couldn’t help yourself and addressed comments directly at me a few threads ago.
As for you attempts to “tone police” the BTL discussion, good luck with that one.
As for your eminent friend, I wonder which one it was? Was it the one who routinely deletes comments from folk who disagree with him on his blog, or was it the one who described me as “English Ellis” for disagreeing with his approval of regressive nativism?
Nobody obliges you or others to interact. I’m happy to let you in particular howl against the storm. I don’t believe for a minute that you and a handful of regressive nativists who have taken up residence BTL here represent a general view, or that you’re entitled to say who is and who is not putting people off commenting.
It’s just as likely that regressive nativism, outlandish conspiracy theorising and droning on ad nauseam about 300 year treaties is turning folk off.
@George Ferguson 7.03 pm
Can I just add the legal work informed by International lawyers on the Irish Reunification referendum and the franchise in particular. Huge amount of effort has gone into making the result unimpeachable. And that’s what you need for a clean sustainable post referendum solution. I have commented on this research before but its lost in the sands of time. </b?
Agreed. That's the kind of thing required, but what we appear to have is a bunch of – at best – enthusiastic amateurs, being fluffed by the usual suspects in here as unimpeachable sources delivering some "slam dunk" solution to delivering indy within months, while bypassing trifling things like votes or demonstrating majority support. If it wasn't so delusional it'd almost be funny.
On Stu’s original post on Provo TRA no dissenters again. Why is this message not breaking through to the Scottish Public?.
I think for many of them it is that they simply aren’t interested in politics, and don’t read about politics in newspapers or listen to it on radio or TV. They’ll only register a particular issue if it becomes a “cause celebre”. I bet most of the politically disengaged knew about Salmond’s case.
I’d also wager that if Joanna Cherry had left the SNP and joined Alba while going for the throats of the Provisional TRA, that the message would be far better known than it is now. As it is, I doubt the matter will be as big an issue as many think when it comes to a general campaign.
Ellis, you haven’t once engaged in ‘argument’ with anyone on this site. You deride and belittle anyone who makes any comment at all which isn’t in keeping with whatever your ‘civic nationalism’ happens to be on any given day. You have never *ever* offered a positive suggestion as to how we can get out of this impasse. (If you have, please remind us what it was.)Your daily business here – for months, nay years – has consisted of goading, gloating, and looking down at every other contributor from your high horse.
By Rev’s own rules – the ones you promised to adhere to – you should no longer be here. And you know it.
Ian Brotherhood
I see no real need to defend Andy Ellis as he does very well on his own.
The fact that he continually responds to the dreamers and romantics on here who would rather drone on constantly about 300 year old treaties says much for his stamina and his desire to see an Independent Scotland. Achieved by the ONLY way it can happen-via the ballot box. Not by some mythical means that the sane and the sensible KNOW will not occur.
The fact that he and a few others point out the stupidity of the ‘one track minds’ of The Bonnie Purple Heather Brigade should be celebrated by anyone who is serious about Independence for Scotland.
@Andy Ellis 7:39pm
They may not be interested in politics but I can assure you they are interested in the welfare of their children. We can’t get public information out there on this stuff. Agreed about Joanna a QC would have been a welcomed addition to the common sense Scots. Alas it wasn’t to be.
@Chas –
Okay champ, why don’t you and your pal Ellis tell us who the members of The Bonnie Purple Heather Brigade actually are? (I assume it’s the same grouping that Ellis refers to as ‘nativists’, ‘moonhowlers’ etc)
I’ll also assume that I’m on the list, just to get it started. Then there’s ROS, Breeks, Ruby, Tinto Chiel…
Who else?
Let’s see the list. Then the other regulars and the 99.5% who never ever comment can decide whether or not we’re the problem here.
Because let’s face it – there *is* a problem, and ignoring it doesn’t do anyone any favours.
@Brotherhood 7.44 pm
I’d respond to your tantrum in detail, but this is me ignoring you now…
@George Ferguson 7.55 pm
They may not be interested in politics but I can assure you they are interested in the welfare of their children.
Yeah, I get that. I know quite a few folk who are entirely disinterested in politics, and assume all politicians are the same and always will be. They’re just going to have their heads down trying to get by over the coming months. Trying to convince them that there’s a better way will be a struggle. Hopefully they’ll see that increasingly the SNP are a busted flush.
So every doctor who tells a TW to get a prostate check because he’s a biological man is transphobic. Should we ignore prostate cancer?
Every doctor who tells a TW not to get a cervical smear because he’s a biological man is transphobic. Should we just let them waste women’s resources?
Every doctor who tells a TW not to get a blood transfusion from a once pregnant woman because he’s a biological man is transphobic, despite trying to save his life.
Every woman who tells a TW to get out of her changing room because he’s a biological man is both transphobic and required to see penises against her will.
Every woman who tells a TW to get out of her changing room because he’s a biological man as there are girls present is both transphobic and not allowed to question paedos.
Every woman who tells a TW to get out of her rugby team because he’s a biological man is transphobic, even though she is following rugby rules.
The list is endless. #SexMatters in so many areas of life.
Soon there will be no one left in the SNP except TRAs. That will make Sturgeon happy.
Ach well, maybe that’s the best thing – we just all ignore each other and there’s no conversation at all.
But then again, that’s what Ellis wants, isn’t it?
‘All we need to do is make sure we keep talking.’ (Stephen Hawking voice there)
Sounds easy enough, but not when you have someone in the corner farting every five minutes.
Anyway, he’ll continue to overstep the mark and get hoofed. It’s inevitable.
In the meantime, does anyone have a link for Sara Salyers at the SSRG, or other good excerpts from that event?
😉
Ian Brotherhood
Just look for the ones who post umpteen times per day.
Once a particular thread gets so far, they revert to their tired old favourites Sovereignty, Colonialism, 300 year old treaties, Conspiracy theories etc.
Anyone who disagrees with them is a Closet Unionist supporter, an SNP sympathiser or worse ie a Tory!
99% of those posting on here are Independence supporters. Maybe 80% loathe the current SNP but difficult to gauge this number accurately. It is equally difficult to put a figure on TBPHB but no higher than 10%. Their output on here however probably equates to 50% of all posts.
Nativists, Moonhowlers seem a pretty apt description to me for individuals with one track minds, who cannot or will not see any other view than their own. They are unable to explain How, When, Who for many of their erroneous and fanciful theories.
REV Stu has stipulated that if anyone ‘names’ another he/she will be banned therefore you will understand my reticence.
Hope this helps and I agree there is a problem.
I wonder if people using #SexMatters in place of preferred pronouns would start to get the message out there?
I can imagine a few heads in the Provisional TRA would probably explode. 🙂
“All of the examples you quote have precisely zero to do with self determination.”
Ellis.
Yes you are correct on that point, but it doesn’t exclude us from using a similar criteria for an indyref, and it shouldn’t. I said further up on this thread Scotland has to be extra careful on who we decide to enfranchise just for this one vote due to our current position. I think that’s a reasonable point.
Here’s a link for a SSRG Q&A session with Salyers, Hanvey, Douglas Chapman. It’s almost 90 mins long.
It’s worth noting that Ellis and other Salvo-bashers have already been attacking people like Salyers on a personal basis, dismissing them as ‘amateurs’ and ‘ex-teachers’ etc whilst completely ignoring the points they are making.
Why would that be?
Could they possibly have something worth hearing?
Decide for yourself – don’t let Ellis and his bully-boys dictate what you can or can’t watch.
link to youtube.com
@Andy Ellis 8:14pm
Agreed if only we had politicians interested in the welfare of people. Lot’s of challenges coming up from October. My definition of the Common Weal we will help family, extended family and our neighbours if everyone does that then we will be in a better place. History will comment on the aberration of Sturgeons tenure. I will never forgive the SNP politicians I used to leaflet for, their indolence made it happen.
This from Pete Wishart.
“It’s only a matter of time till the Tories start to move against the Scottish Parliament on the basis it is that which has given rise to independence sentiment. They are now consumed with removing independence as a legitimate political force.”
Consumed with removing independence, its Nicola Sturgeon that’s consumed by that, her party’s machinations since she became leader have shown that to be the case.
Countless mandates wasted, Brexit no action taken, the suppression of knowledgeable voices within the indy movement are but a few of the betrayers acts against the indy movement, along with the missing 600k.
link to twitter.com
The link I sent at 8.39 – please go to the 34min mark (approx). There is a contribution/suggestion from a female audience member which raises the roof. It’s brilliant. Please check it out.
If anyone happens to know who she is (she doesn’t appear onscreen – the video isn’t great anyway) could you please let us know?
😉
Yes you are correct on that point, but it doesn’t exclude us from using a similar criteria for an indyref, and it shouldn’t.
Hallelujah! So stop trying to use the franchise which already independent countries use for elections or voting on constiutional changes in a lame attempt to say that you and your nativist mates trying to disenfranchise up to 20% of Scots is just normal practice and what every country does. At least have the grace to admit you are wrong as a simple matter of fact.
Nothing excludes us from trying to use any criteria the majority thinks might work. Se yes, we could try your disenfranchisement plan or a variant thereof, but similarly there would be nothing to stop everyone else refusing to recognise it.
I said further up on this thread Scotland has to be extra careful on who we decide to enfranchise just for this one vote due to our current position.
You saying it, and it being true, are two very different things.
I think that’s a reasonable point.
You’re also on record as saying the folk of “Country 404” had it coming. Your credentials as someone engaged in reasonable debate are therefore not strong to begin with. Disenfranchising “x” % of Scots because you don’t think they’re Scottish enough isn’t reasonable, particularly when nobody else runs self determination referendums that way.
It’s looking increasingly likely that the so-called Bonnie Purple Heather Brigade is going to soon represent the only chance of independence available to us. And no, I don’t have a timescale, but who does?
This conflation of the trans stuff and the Indy movement is deeply sinister, and reeks of a deliberate attempt to sow division. Just as public interest and anxiety about the trans debate is starting to increase, they roll this out?
Why would you do that? It stinks.
Ellis @8.59pm.
I’ll say it again it doesn’t exclude from using similar criteria, and I’ll repeat that we need to very careful on who we enfranchise on this very important vote.
As for 404, I said they made themselves a legitimate target, and I stand by that.
@Republicofscotland 8:50pm
Add to that Sturgeons circumvention of the big six market forces in the energy market. Lesley Riddoch said it was a masterstroke. Sturgeon swept away the big six. The reality, the conference speech was high on rhetoric and non existent on delivery. Is there a National Energy company protecting the consumer interest? No there isn’t but they got the headlines.
Meanwhile record profits of multi billions for energy companies. A lesson in rhetoric over reality.
For the record, whichever strategic genius posting the blurb under the SSRG conference video on YouTube thought using “MAGA” as in Make Alba Great Again was a good idea is in utter roaster.
t’s looking increasingly likely that the so-called Bonnie Purple Heather Brigade is going to soon represent the only chance of independence available to us. And no, I don’t have a timescale, but who does?
Then we truly are fucked.
I thought you opined not that long ago it was all going to hit the fan in 4 months time? That didn’t last long!
@Hatuey 9:13pm
Ask Stu he posted the original article. And has been a consistent campaigner against the self ID legislation which we all support. Until your post where it is now a conspiracy, a cunning plan to dislodge the narrative of the Purple Heather Brigade whatever that means. Self ID won’t stand up to scrutiny. Your on the wrong side Hatuey.
Andy Ellis has been watching the SSRG conference recording?
Blimey.
I can’t be the only one who is looking forward to his analysis of the various questions and responses.
Don’t be silly, George, I’ve never been wrong in my life…
Anyway, you misunderstand what I was saying. This trans-totalitarian stuff pretty much destroys any chance of a unified Yes movement and is absolutely going to put people off voting for Indy — that’s assuming we get a vote, of course.
If, on the other hand, you assume the SNP approach will lead to nothing, and I do, the only chance we have of achieving independence now hinges on some irregular and unpredictable mass movement developing, and such a movement would probably depend on Salvo and other organisations that give emphasis to national identity, sovereignty of the people, self determination, etc.
Politics and politicians have failed us. Only people power now offers a way out of the stalemate and a way forward.
Ian Brotherhood
I hope she doesn’t mind me saying but the roof raiser at SSRG this pm was Daisy Walker. A regular Wings contributer.
I am at a loss as to why Stuart allows his blog to be taken over by AE. I took to scrolling passed him, and a few others, a long time ago. The problem is exacerbated when so many other comments are “speaking” to him and this is not always obvious right away.
I’ll say it again it doesn’t exclude from using similar criteria,…
We’re not excluded from saying we’ll disenfranchise all ginger people, or anyone called Quentin, or any males over 25 with ponytails. In the real world however there would have to be extraordinary reasons for the international community to accept Scottish independence – uniquely – justified disenfranchising up to 20% of the people resident here. Sadly for you and the other nativists, those conditions don’t exist.
I’ll repeat that we need to very careful on who we enfranchise on this very important vote.
Because we’re somehow uniquely incapable – amongst all the other countries that have voted for their independence – to manage it without disenfranchising “others”, even when countries with few of our advantages, and many more problems than us, seemed to manage it?
As for 404, I said they made themselves a legitimate target, and I stand by that.
Yup. Guilty as charged. Utterly without a moral compass.
@Hatuey 10:03 pm
I have been wrong lot’s of times in my life. And I am not special in admitting that. The only way I can see a unified Yes movement is for Sturgeon to go and the dumping of self ID. If you can’t see that then I can’t help you.
NATO-boy, that’s correct. The economy goes through the floor by Christmas, that’s inevitable. With that everything will change.
@msdid
If it’s of any help, I routinely scroll past most of the moonhowlers same shit, different day mostly. When folk directly address comments to me, I might respond. That’s kinda one of the points of BTL comment sections generally. Brotherhood’s ostentatious ignoring of me seems to be going well I see.
Doubtless Rev Stu is capable of doing as he sees fit. Historically he’s not been too keen on randoms telling him what he ought to do. Good luck with that tho! 🙂
Aye ok Andy boy
It didnae take ye long tae turn the thread into a pile of pish again did it? You and yer wee pal Chas are as much Indy minded as my auld ma is a virgin. she hud seven !
Yer a rocket
Ian. 8:04pm
I’ll be on your list too please!
I’m a crazed nativist apparently because I’m in line with international law & universally accepted international best practice on such grave & weighty decisions as constitutional changes being decided by the people who live here & not being directly placed into the hands of fuckwits here for the fluting or holiday season or on short stay with plans of returning to THEIR native country within a few years!
Andy wants an open door. Why? Has he ever actually answered?
I’m not a romantic. I just don’t zip up the back like some do. Only insane people keep asking the same question to the same people hoping for a different result next time.
Its perpetual Sec30 deadlock territory we’re trying to escape from. Imagine were finally given indyref2 only to throw it away again on the say so of outsiders again.
& I couldn’t give a shiney shite about what happened 300+ years ago BUT guess what? Sure as shite the Unionists & rootin’ tooting flutters do – so be prepared on all fronts. Each to their own. People within YES can DO as they please! Jeez, on a very post about some knobhead with a code of conduct to abide by it appears we have a few zoomers of our own with their rules we’ve ALL to abide by too or we’re howlers.
@GeorgeFerguson Good point about the Irish reunification. Exactly what we need. A team of lawyers to make it unimpeachable. Not a romantic open door policy or two MSPs debating an empty chamber on the franchise. A proper approach in line with international best practices. Not the Andy says show..
Yep, I must agree that I scroll past Andy Ellis as well, as I find his input disruptive to the general campaign for independence.
Onnyhoo, I was watching “Countryfile” tonight and when they went to the UK weather report, it was described (I paraphrase) as the weather for the whole nation.
Which nation?
Surely BBC presenters should be instructed to use the term “The UK” when they actually mean that? It’s another example of the ‘hidden propaganda’ emanating from the BBC, that pushes the idea that we are all part of the same “nation”?
@msdidi (10.06) –
It was Daisy Walker!
FFS, that is just brilliant.
Cheers aplenty!
And gaun yersel ‘Daisy’!
🙂 🙂 🙂
@Geri (10.29) –
Welcome to the Frothing Nativists Society.
We will forward your membership details, codebook and training manual in due course.
😉
It almost makes you wish Alex Salmond had given his endorsement to the other candidate who had thrust herself forward for Gillian Martins seat. You know the one . The one who describes herself as not having anything to do with politics.
Joolz 8:16pm
Regards your second example – some of us have already witnessed them comparing their appointments with Well Woman clinics. One was bragging last year they’d booked a mammogram scan. But it’s the internet. Could’ve been a wind up merchant seeking attention.
Well if Mike “wee man big dug” Small is supporting it then you KNOW it’s a solid effort to destroy actual independence.
Andy Ellis says:
31 July, 2022 at 9:18 pm
For the record, whichever strategic genius posting the blurb under the SSRG conference video on YouTube thought using “MAGA” as in Make Alba Great Again was a good idea is in utter roaster.
——-
These people would frighten off undecided voters and soft YESSERS.
Christopher Pike says:
31 July, 2022 at 11:16 pm
Andy Ellis says:
Aye ok pal – Lmao
Andy Ellis 10:10pm
It would be super helpful if you refrained from bullshit.
No one, anywhere, has trivialised the franchise into the poor examples you state.
And you are wrong, there is a justifiable need to disenfranchise voters, especially so when the natives of that country are at risk of being consumed by it’s larger neighbour/s! AND it’s recognised in International law! Those pesky natives you deride are protected under international law to maintain their territory or are they wrong too?
So lay off the bullshine. Jackanory made up bull & stick to facts.
But this has been explained to you at length before to which your retort was a Farage insult. No surprise there!
You’re beaten every turn yet you drone the same bullshit round & round hoping it will stick. It won’t.
Ian Brotherhood says:
31 July, 2022 at 8:39 pm
Here’s a link for a SSRG Q&A session with Salyers, Hanvey, Douglas Chapman. It’s almost 90 mins long.
It’s worth noting that Ellis and other Salvo-bashers have already been attacking people like Salyers on a personal basis, dismissing them as ‘amateurs’ and ‘ex-teachers’ etc whilst completely ignoring the points they are making.
Why would that be?
Could they possibly have something worth hearing?
—–
No, we’re just good at spotting charlatans. Salyers is no constitutional expert and the garbage she spouts would be quickly exposed by real legal experts (Professors McHarg and Tickell). Most people don’t pay any attention to her because they know she’s on the lunatic fringe of the movement.
Ian 10:43pm
Cheers! 😀 I’ll look forward to my welcome pack.
Also thanks for the link. I’ll be sure & listen to it.
Are those who hate Transphobes – or even just anyone whom they think of as a transphobe – guilty of a hate crime?
Great to hear Daisy Walker making such a good point, and so well.
It is perfectly clear that Sturgeon’s SNP uses the independence movement simply to get votes for itself, and for its other agenda, which are not popular, and have nothing to do with independence. That’s the whole strategy, point and purpose of any manoeuvre that they present as being a move towards independence.
Masquerading as a pro-independence Party is merely a front used by Sturgeon’s SNP for obtaining other objectives. The SNP is now a fraud. And that fraud is being perpetrated not just on genuinely pro-independence people, but also on the whole of the Scottish people.
These swindlers will use anything to get the vile things they want. Including the elimination of all the rights – and all the history – of the Scottish people. Instead of that history and these rights, they wish to impose their own perverse ideology on all Scots, including anyone who lives in Scotland but does not identify as a Scot.
They will stop at nothing to have their way, imposing what they want by every form of force, including force of law through the manipulation and corruption of the courts. Anyone with eyes to see saw it during the AS trial, and since then, it’s only getting worse and worse.
This is a totalitarian juggernaut. We have to stop it.
AS will also have to make his mind up. I have every sympathy for him, but sooner or later he will have to give up the idea that the SNP can still play a part in gaining independence. So long as it remains in the grip of NS, and her cohort, it cannot.
The problem is not just that she will never win us independence. It is even worse: if she ever did so, she would use it to destroy Scotland altogether. There can be no truck with her, or her ilk.
A quick question for any legal bods here but is self determination the same as changes to constitution?
From my understanding of the U.S.A for example – they’re not the same thing.
A right to self determination is a right to make one’s own decisions – each state can.
A state has no say on changes to the constitution if seeking to be independent. So they are two different legal terms?
Geri, where you going with this?
I refuse to help you until you tell us your pronouns…
Eh?
Its to find out the legal definition we’re speaking about here.
A right to self determination = it can be argued we have that already. We have a parliament, we have an elected FM, we hold elections, we make limited decisions.
What we don’t have is total Independence which is what we want. It’d be important not to use them synonymously.
Christopher Pike. I dunno, watching this link is thoroughly depressing. Anyone would think Chapman’s boss didn’t have several mandates at her disposal. The SNP is a fringe group FFS! What advances made to the int community? Fecking ZERO! NADA!
The usual troughers message ‘You must try harder, Boxer. Its your fault. Get yer activist arse back to the wheel & keep going convincing imiganary ppl with imaginary dates – Imelda’s shoes won’t pay themselves you know!’
Taken for mugs. Who are these imaginary voters & backers that us mere mortals have still to convince? Wasn’t that their job while pocketing over £300k per anum between the Murrel cartel?!!
‘Hi, is that Charles Michel?? Its Geri fae Wishie here! Can I meet you & the international community for a wee sit doon tae talk about Scottish Independence & it’s shyte state of affairs? No? Take it up with Truss you say? Get a mandate you say? Set a date you say? Win..u-hu. come back when it’s not honoured? Oh, OK. Ta for yer time’
Jesus fecking wept!
The lady from the audience was correct. They are barstewards. Anyone would think they’ve corn growing.
The SNP do not own the YES movement.
The SNP do not own the Scottish Independence movement.
The SNP do not own the Scottish people.
In fact the SNP are not a party of Independence anymore.
Well Tickell my McHarg if academic snobbery is not back on the agenda . If it ever left ?
So , highly intelligent lay-people are simply incapable of intensive research and perceptive , pertinent interpretations of that research . * That kind of thing * is the sole property of experts .
Get back in dem fields n keep a-pickin or massa’s gon whup ya good
wull says:
31 July, 2022 at 11:54 pm
The problem is not just that she will never win us independence. It is even worse: if she ever did so, she would use it to destroy Scotland altogether. There can be no truck with her, or her ilk.
I think the YES movement is doing exactly the right thing; essentially treating the SNP as if it didn’t exist, and advancing the YES cause by all possible means open to them.
SALVO, SSRG, ALBA, are beginning to lengthen their stride, and focus in areas where progress can be delivered.
The SNP? Two amateurish “papers” saying nothing, the Aberdeen nutters demand everybody signs up to their code of conduct or we’re banned from supporting Independence, and Sturgeon now wants an answer to the question which Sturgeon herself stopped Martin Keating’s from securing.
Sooner or later, the grassroots and voters are going to get with the program, then surely it’s curtains for the SNP.
The Plebiscite Election MUST be fought on a YES format so the mandate is binary.
Arseholes like Pete “look how much ALBA hates us” Wishart will answer for their hubris and hypocrisy, continually smearing ALBA for their share of the vote while allowing a poisonous minority interest faction with an even smaller vote to hijack and take over the SNP and Independence campaign.
Keep doing what you’re doing SALVO, SSRG, ALBA, Alex Salmond, Sara Salyers…
Who cares what you’re doing SNP? You’ve pretty much fkd it. You haven’t had two constructive ideas to rub together since 2014, but my, what a mountain of deluded shite and madness we’ve all had shovelled over us..
SNP, even if you dumped The Manchurian Betrayer over night, I think it would come too late for you. The word on the grapevine is you’re skint; a poverty in wealth to match your poverty in ambition. Take a bow, it’s all your own work.
@Geri 10.29 pm
I’m in line with international law & universally accepted international best practice on such grave & weighty decisions as constitutional changes being decided by the people who live here.
No, you aren’t in line: what you and other nativists don’t understand (or in many cases just flat out lie about) is that there is a difference historically and constitutionally between the franchises used for self determination referendums, and the franchise in use in already independent countries for elections or amendments to their existing constitutions. Even Republicofscotland has accepted his attempts to link the two things are wrong.
Virtually every self determination referendum uses residence criteria, not birth, ethnicity or “future citizenship” criteria to decide who gets a vote in a self determination referendum. Indeed, it would be a bit mental to try and use “future citizenship” criteria, because we have no idea which people currently resident would take up citizenship, and which eligible Scots born or “grandparented” people living round the world would take Scottish citizenship, as they would be entitled to do.
Of course, if you and other regressive populists were REALLY interested in fairness, you’d do what the Catalans did and compile a “new” voting register specifically for every indyref and allow Scots abroad to register to vote. You wouldn’t do that in a million years of course, because you aren’t really interested in fairness, only in skewing the result to ensure you win by excluding swathes of people you suspect might vote against you. You and others might be happy to abandon civic nationalism: most of us aren’t. Them’s the breaks!
Andy wants an open door. Why? Has he ever actually answered?
I have answered, many times and at length for the benefit of the uneducated, and those that refuse to be educated. The answer is more than adequately addressed by Rev Stu’s fisking original of the whole nativist platform reproduced above.
Nobody is advocating an open door, they’re questioning why a small minority of regressive nationalists and populists (Make Alba Great Again….really? That doessn’t sound at all Trumpist SSRG, no siree…!) are determined to disenfranchise up to 20% of Scottish residents because they don’t think we can win without abandoning civic nationalism.
@Brian
Yep, I must agree that I scroll past Andy Ellis as well, as I find his input disruptive to the general campaign for independence.
I find the input of regressive blood and soil nationalists and those who pander to them much more disruptive to the general campaign. If you and others thing using acronyms like “MAGA – Make Alba Great Again” as SSRG appears to think is OK is a recipe for winning over undecided voters you’re just as delusional as the rest of the small claque of nativist extremists in here.
Chas says:
31 July, 2022 at 8:28 pm
REV Stu has stipulated that if anyone ‘names’ another he/she will be banned therefore you will understand my reticence.
Where did he stipulate this?
There is nothing stopping you naming those you refer to as the ‘Bonnie Purple Heather Brigade.’
Do you also refer to these people as jocks?
Are they tartan haggis munchers who drink buckfast & eat deep fried mars bars & live in housing schemes?
C’mon now Chas we need more info about the ‘Bonnie Purple Heather Brigade’
@Geri
No one, anywhere, has trivialised the franchise into the poor examples you state.
Yes they have. Nativist in this very place have proposed a range of disenfranchisement plans, from limiting the vote to those born in Scotland (but excluding those currently living abroad obviously, because they fear most of those are unionists), to the gamut of qualifying residence periods from 20 years down to 2 years. Most seem to favour around ten years residence.
They compound their idiocy by claiming this is justified by “similar” residence criteria being required to gain citizenship. It doesn’t matter how often it is pointed out to them that this is a false comparison, because self determination referendums don’t use citizenship criteria. A couple of referendums have imposed residence criteria of 24 months.
And you are wrong, there is a justifiable need to disenfranchise voters, especially so when the natives of that country are at risk of being consumed by it’s larger neighbour/s! AND it’s recognised in International law!
No, your view is that disenfranchisement is needed. It’s not a view shared by the movement as a whole, and it is profoundly regressive, morally wrong and probably counter productive. See Rev Stu’s twitter thread reproduced in the comments above. You obviously weren’t aware of that, but feel entitled to bang on now about the issue from a position of next to know knowledge, as your later post asking for other people’s views on the difference shows:
Q: is self determination the same as changes to constitution
A: No it isn’t. Go and look it up. Any reasonable person with an internet connection can find plenty of guidance about the franchises used for self determination referendums, and the differences between them and franchises for general elections or voting on constitutional amendments. It’s also been (extensively) discussed here, but you appear late to the game and wade in with all the certainty of someone who has strong opinions, but no ability or desire to do the actual research. Stun us wi’ another. Nativist is as nativist does.
You’re beaten every turn yet you drone the same bullshit round & round hoping it will stick. It won’t.
Not a single regressive nativist has ever beaten me in relation to this issue, or answered Rev Stu’s original demolition of what passes for their case form the twitter thread last year. They’re butt-hurt that they were and have remained a fringe group in the movement, endorsing a deeply regressive, populist platform. No referendum is in sight, as Rev Stu pointed out but the political optics of franchise stink to high heaven and will be a huge turn off for undecided voters in any future referendum.
No pro-independence party supports franchise restriction, and nobody of any note in the movement has come out in favour of it. There’s a reason for that: civic nationalism is important. Most folk want to be on the right side of history, and they have a conscience. Restricting the franchise to exclude “New Scots” because you fear they will vote the wrong way (whether your plan is to exclude 20%, 10%, 5% or whatever) doesn’t produce the kind of Scotland many of us would want to see brought about.
Luckily such a dystopian nightmarish future won’t happen, because Scots in general aren’t moonhowling regressive nativists.
Guess they deserve some credit for being willing to pander to the current target diaspora (new Scots and soft noes) in such a cheeky way.
Problem arises if they find one that’s not such a wooman, yet still takes offence at being labeled as such, and signatories are obliged to withdraw from the campaign in consequence
Note to self. Don’t forget the warning:
Rev. Stuart Campbell says:
6 July, 2022 at 12:48 pm
Andy Ellis, Ruby: if either of you ever mentions the other by name (including any “clever” ways of doing so indirectly) again in any context whatsoever you’re banned. Clear? Not comment deleted, not pre-moderation, banned.
I have HAD ENOUGH of this fucking playground shit.
No mention of Chas in this warning.
Ian Brotherhood says: 8:52 pm
“If anyone happens to know who she is…”
There could be an alert reader badge recall required. 😉
But good to see something coming out of btl commentary at the tail end of this article.
link to wingsoverscotland.com
Rev. Stuart Campbell says:
2 July, 2022 at 11:28 am
“Would you be able to define what you mean by personal attacks?”
It means personal attacks. Comments based on who someone is rather than what they said. So talking about “Ruby and her posse” would qualify, and so would “behaving like an absolute cunt”.
Is there a difference between “Ruby and her posse” & the ‘Bonnie Purple Heather Brigade’?
C’mon Chas we need more info.
In case you perchance missed it, some English women beat some German women in a ball game.
link to bbc.co.uk
Rest of IngMed. ditto
All together now INGERLAAAAND…..SIEG! SIEG! SIEG!…blub, blub, blub..
It’s all they’ve got now, poor dears.
Dont mention blood and soil though, just patriots «contra mundum».
Welcome to the third world, England
Ottomanboi says:
1 August, 2022 at 8:46 am
In case you perchance missed it, some English women beat some German women in a ball game.
It was actually a good game – it makes a difference when the teams are matched well, as opposed to too many of the women’s games where a handful massacre the rest on a depressingly regular basis. Hope the Doncaster Belles send a “fk u” letter to Doncaster Rovers, who must now be regretting alienating them at the very point women’s footie in En-ger-land is likely to go supernova.
The attempts by the lagar lout crowd to appropriate the win to make up for their tendency to always trip at the finish line need shot down though. Sit down and shut up lads, this is their moment, not yours.
At least when England’s women play, their fans don’t try to emulate Boudicea/Boudica and lay waste to a hundred square miles of territory around the stadium in triumphalism or sour grapes.
If TRUSS becomes top tory she will say NOPE.
Come on Nicola, let’s have a mega constitutional spat.
Think you can handle that?
Biological Woman to Biological Woman.
MARK BOYLE
It is not the game, it is the teary, beery, tsunami of jingoism from Vox Pop. media when the English win, over the Germans and French in particular. Scots do not figure at this level.
It is the management of decline. Sport assumes an importance in inverse proportion to that rate of decline.
Scotland has a much greater concern, that of survival as a more meaningful entity than a satrapy of Greater «Ingerland».
” At least when England’s women play, their fans don’t try to emulate Boudicea/Boudica and lay waste to a hundred square miles of territory around the stadium in triumphalism or sour grapes. ”
Lol , aye Mark , at least not yet ! And , yes , it was a good , well-matched game , not a lot in it in terms of quality , both teams played well and showed plenty of commitment . England – just about – deserving the win .
Was wondering though …..given this success , if will attract the envious eyes of woomen ? Let’s hope not , it would be the ruination the admirable advance of WOMAN’S football
” It is not the game, it is the teary, beery, tsunami of jingoism from Vox Pop. media when the English win, over the Germans and French in particular.”
Yes , the downside Otto . This can be avoided though by the simple expedient of not watching/reading ANY MSM commentary 🙂
Well done England – a brilliant, fully deserved win over a very good team. No doubt the shiny royal gongs will be on the way. I’m so happy for you – really.
PS: I still want to be independent!
link to yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com
Above link is to an excellent article on Iain Lawson’s Yours For Scotland web site. In the article Mia explains very forensically the actions of the First Minister and her team these last eight years and how she has frustrated the drive to independence.
For any independence supporter it is a harrowing read. And now we are to understand that this Vichy SNP are going to pass a motion as to who can and who cannot participate in an independence campaign.
I don’t know who these people think they are. But one thing for sure is that there is a new independence movement, a real independence movement, that is growing and starting to replace the false flag agents of the British state.
Groups like SALVO, SSRG, together with parties like Alba and a new vibrant, honest and growing blog sphere are all getting the message out to an independence community that will supplant the SNP.
Anyway, read this article. It is an excellent critique of how Sturgeon has not helped but rather hindered independence.
That’s the next 100yrs of commentary & replays sorted.
I wonder how long it’ll be until the TRAs want a spot.
” I wonder how long it’ll be until the TRAs want a spot. ” . I wondered the same , above , Geri . I suspect , not long . They’ve already made inroads to – less high-profile / lucrative – sports and I think it’s inevitable they’ll be turning their attention to the ” Beautiful Game ” with it’s rich financial rewards
Been very busy lately. And just catching up,
I tried linking into YoursforScotland, got the first few seconds of it then was cut of, is it on youtube at all, anyone know?
On a different note Who decides How many civic Scots get to vote, As far as I am aware there was no civic SCOTS THAT VOTED US INTO THE TREATY,
Just a handful of greedy men whom had been ousted of of office in Scotland BEFORE the Treaty was signed by the native Scots.
Rephrase the last sentence for clarity.
The Scottish parliament ceased to exist in Scotland before the treaty with England was signed.
The nation of Scots had chased them out of office.
With no sitting Scottish parliament.in Scotland 1707.
The Scots acted Sovereign in 1707, with self determination and rid themselves of the the Barons and Nobles that sat in the in office,
The monarch then or now is not Sovereign above the Scots.
Whom did England Sign a Treaty WITH?
Some private profiteers chased out of the Scottish parliament office.
We have no papers on parchment or other wise that enters the Scots into a treaty with England.
England has no papers on parchment or other wise that enters Scots into a treaty with England.
What England holds is a Treaty with the men whom were private individuals since they had been chased out of the Scottish parliament.
@James Che
Now that you have apparently clarified your “hot take” on how the Treaties of Union are not valid, can you please explain:
A) which subject matter experts in Scottish history, English history, legal or constitutional history agree with your assessments?; and m
B) assuming anyone else on earth agrees with your assessment, how will that translate in to concrete action, how will this action happen, and who will be carrying the actions out?
Ellis has had plenty of time to watch the SSRG link from last night and listen to what Daisy Walker had to say.
Sadly, he’s ignoring me so can someone else please ask him for his response?
😉
I ignore Romano brits thinking like romano brits.
King of the Twitter Block Option says we have to discuss and win hearts with Respect.
What a well paid and pensioned clown indeed.
We can see where this is all going..nowhere. But the MPs and MSPs will keep winning their seats at the trough for a good 10-15 years at least under the “Bad Westminster” laments and yet again opportunity not lost, but never really there in the first place.
Shouldnt be too long before Nicola starts getting compared to Tony Blair for longevity?..just another 5 years of humdrum action but nice book reviews should do it!
The point is no one has any evidence to state other wise, I have asked specifically for proof on the details, that Scots ACTUALLY entered into a treaty, this has not been provided.
Experts are bought and payed for usually by the government funding system, educated through government systems.
But even these given the benifit of the doubt have not discussed why the nobles and barons that where chased out of office of the Scottish parliament by the Scots, before the treaty was signed lack the knowledge gap of what happens to the treaty if there was no sitting Scottish parliament
Not the Ghost version, that relies on supposition and heresay ( later on )that all Scots entered into a treaty with england,
Not that one that is faux, built on propaganda.
It is not for Scots to excuse the treaty, it is up to Westminsters to proof it did not sign a treaty with……Ex members….. of the Scottish parliament in 1707.
@ Ian Brotherhood says:
1 August, 2022 at 2:18 pm
Ellis has had plenty of time to watch the SSRG link from last night and listen to what Daisy Walker had to say.
Sadly, he’s ignoring me so can someone else please ask him for his response?
?
In fairness to Andy, as he is well aware, I always scroll past his comments here, and I intend to keep doing so … however, I feel it’s only fair he is allowed to do the same to me, even in audio/video format.
PS glad folk liked it. Seems to have struck a nerve.
That’s interesting, James Che. So they signed the dirty deal with a bunch of private citizens?
I’m not quite sure how this works? Brotherhood ostentatiously flounces that he intends to ignore me in perpetuity, but wants detailed reports on whether I’ve watched some YouTube video he’s interested in and wants to know what my analysis of a video I haven’t had the time to watch yet is, because he thinks everyone is like him and has nothing better to do?
It’s like watching an obsessive schoolgirl whingeing.
For someone who is ignoring me, he certainly devotes an awful lot of his engagement in here to either stalking me or asking others to do it on his behalf. That doesn’t seem very…..balanced. Does he have any friends who could perhaps stage some kind of intervention?
Hi Daisy, I very much liked your use of the word “bastards”. The rest was okay too.
I’m not entirely comfortable with the idea that we should or must convince the rest of the UK that we would be good neighbours. The best approach, I think, would be to lead by example by building a fairer and more equitable society that made the rest look crap. That’s probably something that worries them.
Anyway, good to see the SSRG generating attention and support. Everything seems to move much too slowly but I think we can say there is definitely movement now and a growing groundswell of enthusiasm for an alternative to Sturgeon’s “strategy”.
The timing of all this is excellent too. The Indy movement is like a coiled spring, preparing to expand and release all its beautiful nationalist energy when the time is right.
We won’t need a referendum and that’s why I don’t really give a fuck about the franchise debate. People power trumps everything.
Victors write the history books, they also make up the laws.
Once that is internalized the perspective on «events», past and present significantly changes.
The legalists and certain historians would have you believe there is a necessary. transcendent quality about both.
A one sided treaty is a bad treaty, a one sided contract is a bad contract even if your signature is appended.
The legalists and textbook literalists infecting nationalist politics, the handmaids of dull conformity, will be the death of the independence project.
For them, the Gordian knot has to be slowly teased and unravelled.
We should live so long!
I’m reading that all the European countries are applying concessions on petrol and diesel.
Only Finland, who has no oil is slightly more expensive than here.
Thank goodness we as Scots are self sufficient or things would be difficult here?
As reading about how pre Brexit the U.K. passport had the top grading for being accepted
without question in almost every country.
Thanks to Tory Brexit it’s 6th now.
Different rules for the U.K. travelling to France as to travelling to Spain.
Cue the PM and Reece Mogg extolling the virtues no one can see outside of money laundering circles or off shore tax avoidance.
For those interested, Alba have announced the special guests appearing with Alex Salmond at the Wee Alba Book event on Saturday 6th August at the Waterloo Place Hotel, Edinburgh. They will be:
Owen Dudley Edwards – Irish Historian and author of “Our Nations and Nationalism”, and
Marjorie Ellis Thomson – Former Chair of CND.
I am reliably informed the event is filling up fast.
Hatuey,
3:23pm..
APPARENTLY,
The more study of this pseudo treaty from beginning to end the more we hear screams from a certain group,
Don’t look at it, its old, it doesn’t matter any more. Wot you gonna do about it anyway,
I’ve been in various societies – they usually get ruined by people drawing up rules everyone else should obey. Then there’s a big argument about what the rules should be, then everyone falls out and half leave to go form their own club.
And, of course, very little of the society’s aims get worked on in the meantime.
Here we are doing this to the whole of Scotland. Before we can campaign, lets spend a year or two arguing over what rules we must have in place first.
Utterly pathetic.
Someone mentioned this t’other day but there was no link.
Check it out for a wee bit of comic relief – women pranking their menfolk.
link to youtube.com
From their code:
In my experience of running clubs (one was an educational charity), people turn up because they are interested in what the club does (in my case, talks about space and astronomy, doing rocketry launches and so on), not in learning ‘governance policies’.
This is only going to turn people away from independence, if they have to first take an exam to prove they understand best practice policies in governance.
This represents the end of the YES movement when it’s more concerned about ‘club rules’ than its own aims (independence).
I did resign from a party branch committee in non suspect times, years ago, EXACTLY for this very reason.
Even some rank and file members of that now fully toxic party pretended that they could decide who had the right to say something, what did they have the right to say, when to say it and how, even if they weren’t party members.
These cretins pretended that they were the only valid outlet and vector for Scottish Independence. Fully delusional, deeply narcissistic and astonishingly out of their minds.
It was so abhorrent, dictatorial and disgusting that I could not even stay in the same room with these neo-fascists, and stormed out of the room slamming the door.
You have been warned: if we don’t stop this cabal of delinquents, Scottish Independence is completely FCUK’d for a century.
“Yes they have. Nativist in this very place have proposed a range of disenfranchisement plans, from limiting the vote to those born in Scotland ”
If you are born in Scotland in my opinion you should automatically qualify for a vote on a constitutional matter. If you’ve moved to Scotland from elsewhere I’d say that a minimum requirement in residency should be required, other countries do this on voting matters, and although Scots would be voting to leave or stay in the union, Scots are sovereign in their own country so it seems only appropriate that Scots design the criteria for an independence vote.
This of course won’t go down well with Westminster, but in reality Westminster should play no part in setting the criteria for an indyref nor should they be consulted on it for permission to hold one in the first place. The Scottish government need only inform them out of courtesy, as Scots did not give up their sovereignty when Scotland joined the union.
It would be and should be quite simple via documentation to show the international community that Scots are sovereign, and ergo prove that they do not need the consent of a foreign government to decide if they wish to leave this union or not.
On Topic for once…
Can anyone recall voting to democratically elect any of those tossers to implement the rules on what we can and can’t say or do with regard to campaigning for Indy?
It’s like a poundshop World Economic Forum or “International Community” dictating to us again.
Robert Louis says:
31 July, 2022 at 7:28 am
“This really reeks of student politics. The SNP have quite literally become the judean people’s front.”
Surely you mean “The peoples’ front of Judea”.
That other lot are shite!
Can anyone recall voting to democratically elect any of those tossers to implement the rules on what we can and can’t say or do with regard to campaigning for Indy?
No, definitely not, which is why they should be told in no uncertain terms to sling their hooks.
Incidentally, who will be electing the members of the proposed Convention of Estates?
Hey, I thought you were meant to be ignoring me…
Someone posted this link further up the thread and it points out beautifully that Sturgeon has betrayed us on holding an indyref, and that she has over the past seven years done everything in her powers to stall independence.
link to yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com
Re my 5.39pm comment.
None of it will come to fruition whilst Sturgeon is FM, and none of her spineless and gutless SNP MSPs and MPs look likely to stand up for Scotland by defying her. In reality the nuSNP is no longer the party of Scottish independence, many indy supporters haven’t realised this yet, but in time they will, we will get our chance again to leave this union, but not through the nuSNP, unless of course when Sturgeon goes there’s some sort of great change within the party, and it purges the those who would put their own agenda ahead of the welfare of Scotland and Scots.
This may never happen, and the nuSNP will ultimately go the way of BLiS which is now insignificant in Scottish politics, I would advise those who really want an independent Scotland to vote for the real independence party Alba, though it will take time for Alba to rise, maybe Salvo and SSRG will hasten our exit here’s hoping.
What the feck is this about?
Michael Russel:
I don’t need his permission to debate or campaign in a democracy.
please people, give it up your barking at the moon.
Scotland = clown world
Stu I don’t know how you keep going
The country is lost,accept it and move on.
The future is in the East, move now while you still can.
Hatuey.
The only signatures on the faux treaty of the union with England is that of private citizens a small group of people, kicked out of the Scottish parliament,
They were ( past )representatives of the Scottish parliament, and I have no doubt the English parliament knew this.
For they sent a army to the Scottish borders.
To enforce a treaty with the…. Ex Scottish parliament. Whom were not in a position to ACT as the Scottish parliament in 1707.
Nor was the monarchy down south, whom acting as overseer to the treaty, sovereign in Scotland in 1707.
The whole treaty of the union, is a contrived, stage managed, fabricated and concocted piece of work that ended up for all Englands parliaments efforts not to have captured all the Scots.
We experience England’s Parliament recognising this in 1707 when they discussed wether to give the nation of Scots a vote to join the treaty,
They viewed the nation of Scots in Scotland as being a separate ethnic group ( entity )from the private citizens group that were about to sign the Treaty, ( see uk parliament site 2022.) whom then decided not to accept the Scottish signature or X mark to Join,
I can easily understand how most of Scotland are ignorant to these facts, and why the political English parliament continued the hoax and feigned a treaty with the obsolete Scottish Parliament.
Having said all that, it that treaty with the private citizen may hold for them,
Even here though we see a get out clause, for Scots remaining uncaptured and sovereign with the claim of right having been inserted into the treaty by private citizens and the English parliament once again recognising that fact by ratifying that the Scots as a nation are not truely captured.
It is the same feigned hoax that the Parliament of Westminster and NS are playing out today.
@ Gregory Beekman at 6:09 pm
Re. It is about ensuring the highest quality of inclusive debate, not about excluding anyone.
That will be handy as we will all be included in the campaigning debate with M. Horsebox Russell about the future of NHS Scotland in an Indy Scotland.
link to craigmurray.org.uk
Hey, I thought you were meant to be ignoring me…
Is this the new in house whereby you don’t include the name of the poster you are quoting/addressing the comment to?
Are posters under threat of being banned if they even mention names of other posters.
If you are born in Scotland in my opinion you should automatically qualify for a vote on a constitutional matter.
OK; so you’re enfranchising the 800,000 Scots born folk living elsewhere in the UK then? And those elsewhere in the diaspora? Will you be advocating for a new electoral register then, so these folk can register for a “Scots abroad” vote? That’s what the Generalitat did in Catalonia, and it’s the logical concomitant of the nativist narrative.
If ethnicity and blood ties are the criteria, surely it would be wrong to exclude Scots born folk abroad just because they happened to be working elsewhere, but would like to have a Scottish passport after independence?
If you’ve moved to Scotland from elsewhere I’d say that a minimum requirement in residency should be required, other countries do this on voting matters,….
Other ALREADY INDEPENDENT countries do it to decide who can gain citizenship or vote on constitutional amendments. Self determination referendums DO NOT generally apply minimum residency criteria at all, and the few which have it has been 24 months. You already admitted up-thread that your argument is a false equivalence, yet you still keep banging your head off the nativist wall.
Scots are sovereign in their own country so it seems only appropriate that Scots design the criteria for an independence vote
Scots are doing it, and did it in 2012. The fact you want to disenfranchise a random proportion of Scots so you can queer the pitch in your favour doesn’t make it appropriate. All people are sovereign in their own countries. The historical and constitutional precedent for self determination referendums is to use a residence based franchise, not an ethnic, or “future presumed citizenship” franchise.
This of course won’t go down well with Westminster, but in reality Westminster should play no part in setting the criteria for an indyref nor should they be consulted on it for permission to hold one in the first place.
I’m all in favour of a Scottish government with a mandate telling Westminster to GTF if it tries to impose unacceptable conditions on self determination. The Edinburgh Agreement amounted to a cave in by Westminster and gave Salmond virtually everything he asked for. Self determination is a right for any people, but it’s not automatic or unlimited, particularly in non colonial situations.
Of course we shouldn’t accept that we need anyone’s permission, but if you think it increases our chances of gaining independence if we declare UDI, or have to do it in a conflict situation with Westminster, I reckon you’re in for a disappointment.
Anyhoo…we’ll soon know if there’s any point even trying to hold a referendum withing the constraints of the devolutionary Scottish parliament. If the UK SC says not, then we need a plan B, like plebiscitary elections.
It would be and should be quite simple via documentation to show the international community that Scots are sovereign,…
If it’s that simple, isn’t it passing strange nobody has done it before now? The thing is, the international community – at least in the abstract – accepts the basic principle that every people is sovereign.
There is however a fairly big leap from that to them recognising the independence of anyone claiming it. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t. To leave the current union, demonstrating a clear majority of support is the only sensible starting point.
Michael Russel:
It is about ensuring the highest quality of inclusive debate, not about excluding anyone.
Does demanding ‘the highest quality of inclusive debate’ not exclude people?
What about folk with ‘tourettes’ and those who have difficulty stringing a sentence together will they be excluded?
Do you have to have been part of your university debating team to qualify for inclusion?
What about dress code? Would a collar & tie be required?
This the new in house style of not include the name of the poster you are quoting is very confusing.
Definitely not the way to have ‘the highest quality of inclusive debates’
“yet you still keep banging your head off the nativist wall.”
Firstly lets get one thing crystal clear, the only nativists are those of the English government that are hellbent on denying democracy to Scots, got that! Good, remember it the next time you feel the need to type the nativist or blood and soil nationalism slur.
“If ethnicity and blood ties are the criteria, surely it would be wrong to exclude Scots born folk abroad just because they happened to be working elsewhere, but would like to have a Scottish passport after independence?”
Interesting point but if you haven’t resided in Scotland for the minimum period whatever that turns out to be, then no, what would it matter to those who want a Scottish passport, they’d still want one after the constitutional vote.
“Scots are doing it, and did it in 2012. The fact you want to disenfranchise a random proportion of Scots so you can queer the pitch in your favour doesn’t make it appropriate. All people are sovereign in their own countries. The historical and constitutional precedent for self determination referendums is to use a residence based franchise, not an ethnic, or “future presumed citizenship” franchise.”
You call it disenfranchising I call it safeguarding, on the actual indyref I’d hope we use a residency based one, but one with a residents based time franchise, as already sovereign nations do, there are no laws to say that we must follow historical precedents, as long as its a fair franchise
” but it’s not automatic or unlimited, particularly in non colonial situations.
Of course we shouldn’t accept that we need anyone’s permission, but if you think it increases our chances of gaining independence if we declare UDI, or have to do it in a conflict situation with Westminster, I reckon you’re in for a disappointment.”
This is where the Claim of Right comes in, it, in my opinion supercedes Westminster when it comes to the will of the Scottish people.
UDI in my opinion in our case would only be a vehicle to allow a indyref to be held, UDI, is the counterpart to The Claim of Right if one isn’t used to force an indyref (democracy denying Westminster) then the other could be used.
“If it’s that simple, isn’t it passing strange nobody has done it before now? The thing is, the international community – at least in the abstract – accepts the basic principle that every people is sovereign.
There is however a fairly big leap from that to them recognising the independence of anyone claiming it. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t.”
In my opinion it is that simple, only now is the Claim of Right coming to the forefront Westminster nor the Britnat media, or the unionist parties at Holyrood want to talk about it or even let on that it exists, add that our current FM has done and will continue to do everything in her powers to stall independence.
Scotland isn’t a region of England’s its a country in a political union with another country via a treaty, Scots ancestors were canny enough to pen the Claim of Right which can allow us to return to our independent nation status if the people of Scotland so wish.
What’s stopping us from leaving this union, in a word Sturgeon.
Gregory Beekman @6.09pm.
Yes I read that myself, Mike Russell has fallen way down the ladder of credibility under the tenure of Sturgeon as FM, his demise is a characterisation of the SNPs MPs and MSPs overall, they’ve backed their leaders horrible agenda, which doesn’t include what we elected them for, to push for the dissolution of the union. As nasty and odious as the Tories are even they know when to ditch a maniacal leader, the fact that the SNP MPs and MSPs have stayed quiet on the machinations of Sturgeon says quite a lot about their characters.
This.
“It is about ensuring the highest quality of inclusive debate, not about excluding anyone.”
Is all about attempting to exclude anyone, political party or group that doesn’t fall into line with their agenda, sadly independence doesn’t even come into it if you ask me, it never has, going by the last seven years of Sturgeon at the helm, its just a carrot dangled in the faces of the indy masses to win votes.
We mustn’t vote SNP at the next GE a SNP vote is a wasted vote, we MUST vote for the Alba party the real party of Scottish independence, and women’s rights in Scotland.
Ian Brotherhood says:
1 August, 2022 at 5:20 pm
Someone mentioned this t’other day but there was no link.
Check it out for a wee bit of comic relief – women pranking their menfolk.
There was a manager at an old work place connected to a certain SNP high ranker whom every charity “dress down Friday” without fail came in wearing the same red and black checked shirt, blue jeans and vomit shade Timberland boots combo for that fully fledged “Past Caring Middle Aged Dad Who Still Dresses The Same Way He Did When He Was Twelve” look.
Every – Single – Time.
Then one Friday his entire – and I mean entire team all came in wearing the exact same outfit as well – all twenty of them. Now everyone may have had the ubiquitous blue jeans, but the checked shirt and especially the boots (which aren’t exactly cheap) had to have been bought especially for the occasion … quite some effort for a prank.
Of course we all howled with laughter, even more so when what was going on went completely over the heads of the rest of the management team. But the best bit of all was when the Chief Executive Officer called everyone together for an impromptu announcment meeting (ie. he was looking for an excuse to goof off and not do any work as much as everyone else, as tends to happen on “dress down” days).
As his blah blah went on, eyes sweeping the room, it became clear from the way his expression changed, ers and ums creeping in, and a puzzled tone to his voice which didn’t match the grandiose announcement that the company was going to do telly ads (on a crappy cable channels watched by semi-comatosed geriatrics – suffice to say it was the biggest waste of money since the Third Lanark 1967/68 season ticket) … that he’d noticed what appeared to have escaped the notice of the rest of management (except of course one!), and half wanted to ask out loud what twenty one of his staff were all identically dressed.
Come the next dress down day, a certain somebody wore a different shirt … once.
Ruby @6:48
Yes, spot on! Missed that bit about ‘highest quality’.
It’s all nonsense speak, nothing to do with indy at all. But, of course, they’ve got nothing better to do because indy ain’t happening. So they spend their time on waffly nonsense that means nothing.
Republicofscotland @7:20
Yes, agree with your points.
SNP MSPs should oust Sturgeon – she’s ruined the party and the movement.
Their conduct code is trying to shut the rest of us down.
Yes – Alba all the way! We need Salmond back as FM!!
” …. M. Horsebox Russell …. ” HA !
Sounds like an extra in a ” Western ” film . Was he in A FISTFUK OF MANDATES , or am I getting him confused with P. Carthorse Wishart ? No , haud oan , Carthorse was in A FISTFUL OF MANDATES ( listed in credits as ” Drunk tramp at bar ” ) ; Horsebox was in FOR A FEW MANDATES MORE ( Unlisted ). Or was it the other way round ? Actually , think they each had parts in both those classics .
Shame their acting careers never really took off . From ” Horse Operas ” to ” Dope Operas ” , helluva fall
As I said yesterday, it does not take too long, in the posts on any article Stu produces, for the Bonnie Purple Heather Brigade to pile in on their favourite subject.
‘What is that’ I hear you ask.
It is 300 year old treaties that the sane and sensible are bored to death with.
Of course, if you ask the questions’-how will the treaties be disbanded? Who disbands them? Will the electorate have any say? Silence ensues.
Realism and practicalities are not on speaking terms with BPHB.
Does the Code of Conduct for Indy campaigning cover diligent fiscal auditing and accountability practices with regard to how the 600k Indy fund will be spent…
“Of course, if you ask the questions’-how will the treaties be disbanded? Who disbands them? Will the electorate have any say? Silence ensues.”
Oh don’t be so stupid, the same process would apply as what was intended if yes had won the 2014 indyref, representatives and lawyers from both governments would sit down and thrash out the details.
There’s no room for decent ideas to help the people of Scotland in this cost of living crises at the carefully staged managed SNP conference, in Aberdeen on October.
“A MOTION calling on the SNP to “creatively” use devolved tax powers to help tackle the cost-of-living crisis has been excluded from the draft conference agenda.
The SNP’s annual conference will be held in October in Aberdeen, and the party’s trade union group had put forward a motion on tax powers for consideration.
It called for the Scottish Government to increase taxes on the country’s highest earners and replace council tax.
The SNP pledged to scrap council tax ahead of the 2007 Holyrood elections, but Nicola Sturgeon said in April there were still no plans to do so – despite saying the local tax was not “fair or progressive”.”
link to 12ft.io
There’s at least one Green politician in this world with a bit of grit, and she’s not at Holyrood, as if a Green at Holyrood had any gumption.
“AN Australian senator has been forced to retake her oath after pledging allegiance to the “colonialist Queen” during a swearing-in ceremony.
Lidia Thorpe, who is an indigenous member of Australia’s Upper House, raised a clenched fist while reciting the altered oath.
Reading aloud from a printed card, she said: “I sovereign, Lidia Thorpe, do solemnly and sincerely swear that I will be faithful and I bear true allegiance to the colonising her majesty the Queen.”
The move, which saw Thorpe add the word “colonising” to the original phrasing, ruffled feathers among her colleagues, some of whom were quick to call on the Green Party senator to rectify her error.”
link to 12ft.io
Meanwhile, the island of Pladda off the coast of Arran, is up for sale for the price of a Glasgow flat £350k, will the Scottish government purchase it, or the local council, or will it fall into (like everything else in Scotland) the hands of some explotative businessperson or group, or will it end up as a retirement or second home for Southern incomers who knows?
https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thenational.scot%2Fnews%2F20593225.pladda-island-off-arran-goes-sale—costs-glasgow-flat%2F
Oh don’t be so stupid, the same process would apply as what was intended if yes had won the 2014 indyref, representatives and lawyers from both governments would sit down and thrash out the details.
It’s not a stupid question though, it’s pretty basic stuff. The “cunning plans for indy” brigade never explain how we get from here, to this “sitting down and thrashing out the details” stage.
None of us expect #indyref2 to be delivered by the SNP, so it’s incumbent on those proposing these novel routes to indy to demonstrate how they work. So far they’re coming up empty. It does seem strange considering we keep being assured that it will *just happen* via some unelected Convention of Estates.
So who sits in this Convention? How are they appointed? Who is eligible? How are the paid, if at all? Who is advising them? Who is funding all of this when it happens?
Even if – and it seems to me a fairly big if – this is all stood up and receives widespread support, how long it is going to take? Months? Years? When this Convention reaches decisions, how does it demonstrate to Scots, the Westminster government they’ll be negotiating with, and the international community, that they as a Convention are now the authentic voice and representative of the Scottish people?
Only when that’s demonstrated beyond any reasonable dispute, will these negotiations you talk about be possible.
Until and unless the above questions are answered, it still seems to me that a commitment to plebiscitary elections is far more likely to produce independence in the short to medium term.
The Brigadoon People’s Front stuff may be feasible, but it’s still likely to take longer.
I thought we were supposed to be in a hurry?
‘The Travelling Morris Dance Troupe’ complaining again about ‘The Bonnie Purple Heather Brigade’
They complain about being bored and also about no response to their questions.
They don’t want to read anything about ‘the Act of Union’
What to do to keep ‘The Travelling Morris Dance Troupe’ happy?
Anyone know what they are interesting in?
What about ‘how to build your own private swimming pool if you local public baths close down due to high fuel costs:
link to 12ft.io
link to metro.co.uk
Can’t afford your own private swimming pool never mind there’s always ‘Wild Swimming’ all you need is a speedo and a woolly bobble hat.
A new brigade has entered the arena.
Now we have
The Travelling Morris Dance Troupe Brigade
The Cunning plans for Indy Brigade
Bonnie Purple Heather Brigade
How many wild swimmers do we have?
Could we have
‘Wild Swimmers in Bobble hats brigade’?
@ Ruby
I’m a new year loonydooker, but a proper sovereign tight as a shark’s ass at 50 fathoms Scot one, and not a gullible fool that would pay Underbelly 15 quid to jump in my country’s sea at Queensferry.
“None of us expect #indyref2 to be delivered by the SNP, ”
Speak for yourself, almost half the nation expected it, and I might add, the majority of Scots voted yes to independence in 2014, so don’t give me that nonsense.
My take on it, of course when Sturgeon is ousted, and it will take that for she is the biggest obstacle to an independent Scotland and a strong indy minded FM is in place and it will happen.
“So who sits in this Convention? How are they appointed? Who is eligible? How are the paid, if at all? Who is advising them? Who is funding all of this when it happens?”
Both Liz Truss and Rishi Sunak, one will be the next PM my money’s Truss, have in their nativist fashion stated publicly that they will deny Scotland its right to hold an indyref.
That’s where the Claim of Right and UDI come in, the latter can be used to withdraw MPs from Westminster, hold a grand assembly (MPs and MSPs) at Holyrood on a vote to dissolve the union when yes wins, we then organise and hold our own indyref on our own terms, that will be fair and proper.
The Claim of Right allows Scots to decide if they want to remain in the union or not, again this could be determined by the amount of MPs MSPs for or against independence with the majority prevailing, organising a vote on the Claim of Right would probably be labourious and complicated due to who would be eligible and who would not.
You see we need to go to these lengths because the English parliament has and will continue to deny Scotland the democratic right to choose its own future.
Dan says:
1 August, 2022 at 9:53 pm
@ Ruby
I’m a new year loonydooker, but a proper sovereign tight as a shark’s ass at 50 fathoms Scot one, and not a gullible fool that would pay Underbelly 15 quid to jump in my country’s sea at Queensferry.
You qualify! You can be a member of the ‘Wild Swimmers in Bobble hats brigade’?
So Liz Truss gains Howells of laughter from her Tory supporters claiming that she will just ignore Sturgeon.
That includes ignoring Scotland and Democracy.
Why bother going to the London Chapel of corruption where our nation is powerless, ignored and ridiculed?
Time to break English Laws, take our rights to European Courts of Justice.
Where oh where is our response to the arrogant disaster Truss is as Scotlands enforced ruler
Is it time for a protest outside Bute house or at the party conference.
They might control the agenda but a demonstration of nationalists outside conference calling on Nicolas dismissal or resignation would be hard to ignore.
If we all dress up as the opposite sex they would struggle to close us down
@Robert Hughes 12:50
Aye. One of them would want to *bring it home* by any means they can.
@Hatuey 3:42
They already know & couldn’t care less. Their mindset is we belong to them & we’re too stupid to handle such important things as our own resources – much better they do it for us. Besides, we fund your free stuff. Be grateful.
Examples = rich land owners = Scotland would be scrub land without us. We maintain & care for the land & shoot things & put rents up to avoid riff-raff.
Energy = you’re too stupid & it’s the *wrong kind of oil/gas/wind* Its worthless. We’ll help you out tho & take it. But we want nuclear & what if it inst windy? LOL!
Some host on LBC yesterday was a classic example. The Greeks want their artifacts back! Pronto! = Naw. They’re too stupid to look after them. Only we can do that. The government is unstable to care for their priceless artifacts. We must remain the proper castodians. We’ve got museums & everything – they haven’t! LOL! We can invite them to come look at them or give them on loan. WTF!?
Bottom line. If its worth anything it’s theirs.
Daisy 3:19
You’re too kind. WM is not. You’ll be a good neighbor or else. They have the full force of the law at their beck & call & their not afraid to use it.
Bastards is correct but I’d have added *if you don’t comply to indyref2 we’ll turn the fucker OFF! Starting NOW!
That’s what other countries would do!
We’ve exhausted the playing nice path. There’s no more road left. Im annoyed feck all work has been done by the SNP in all this time & the usual mantra of we must try harder. Its like they forget their picking up a hefty fecking wage to achieve their end. Its like the various mandate’s they were gifted on a plate meant they could sit back on their arse & do feck all outside of their own bubble.!
On the subject of Truss’s quote about ignoring Sturgeons demand for a S30, as soon as she is handed the big job, she will be given the script to stick to and told she’ll be out on her ear like her predecessor if she doesn’t behave.
Even more of the now is not the time mantra coming out of Downing street when it comes to constitutional matters.
Republicofscotland says:
1 August, 2022 at 9:56 pm
You see we need to go to these lengths because the English parliament has and will continue to deny Scotland the democratic right to choose its own future.
———-
There is no English Parliament. England has no form of devolution.
Due to working from home I listen to a lot of the radio just to listen to the music in the background. Apart from music on the radio there are a lot of adverts too.
One advert that does seem to be played a lot lately is from the UK government telling businesses they can apply for loans and other types of support o help with exporting overseas.
If the UK government can do that then why can’t the Scottish government do something similar in the event that we gained independence?
I would like to think that the Scottish government are keeping unofficial channels to the EU and individual European countries. If that is true then I would also like to think that they are liaising with European business organisations to find out how and independent Scotland can trade with Europe in the most efficient and focused manner.
If this is true then it would be good if this could be shared publicly so it can be used for the economic arguments for independence.
If a party was in charge of Holyrood, I would expect nothing else but of course I’m not holding my breath about this as it is the SNP. I’m sure they have done some work on this but it will just be enough to tick boxes and nothing else.
What Scotland needs is Scots from around the worlds financial backing. That’s what the Irish did.
They send donations home.
Scotland has a Tartan Day parade & they have American Highland games in most states which is huge business & everyone loves Scotland cause they’re big on their clans & ancestry.
Scotland can’t compete with huge Tory donors by rattling some cans at a town meeting. If we had some financial backing behind YES it would also raise our profile outside of the UK.
Professor McHarg’s (Professor of Public Law and Human Rights, Scots & UK public law) on SSRG’s Claim of Right fixation:
“This idea that there is a legal solution to political problems isn’t unique to the independence movement. We saw it in spades during the Brexit process, for example. It’s based on a profound misunderstanding of the limitations of the law. It worries me, tbh, because it’s ultimately corrosive of trust in both politics and law.”
I might not agree with all of her stances, but she is a legal expert. I’d trust her advice over that of retired teachers and driving instructors from Patrick.
Something like a million Indians were serving in the British army during WWII. Gandhi and a bunch of other independence supporters were in prison and whilst British politicians were contemplating the need for some small measure of devolution, nobody could have predicted that India would be fully independent by the end of 1947.
We can’t foresee the detail of future developments and don’t have a timetable, but that doesn’t mean there will be no developments. Scientists with more letters after their names than anyone here can’t tell you what the weather will be like tomorrow afternoon.
People are even more unpredictable than clouds but we can see that all the signs are there. Having 50% openly supportive of independence as we go into what will probably be the worst recession any of us have ever seen is probably all we need to know. The winds of change are starting to blow and there’s a storm brewing in Scotland, that much is clear.
We need to start telling people that the recession we are going into, the impossible inflation we are suffering, and the ridiculous energy prices we face, are all problems that have been exacerbated (if not directly caused) by Brexit and the lying right-wing crackpots that foisted it upon us. The MSM are obviously under orders not to make that connection but it’s obvious.
And the solution is obvious too once you explain all that. As I said before, this stuff sells itself.
PacMan.
Do you mean right now? If so, I doubt it would make the airways. The UK holds the broadcasting rights over Scotland & what is aired here via governments OFCOM.Its like we’re living in Russia.
I’m not sure about Scotland’s ports? If we’ve no shipping routes open then our exports would have to go through theirs.
The Irish cured that by bypassing the UK altogether after Brexshit so the EU will know there’s a route.
Christopher Pike.
Yes they do. They chose to have Mayor’s.
WM is an English parliament. We know it’s not meant to be but it is by numbers alone & by being repeatedly told it is by lines of Tories.
Shug.
10 :43pm
That comment made me smile for quite a while,
But very very clever, problem sort, after all the snp would wish the police to be tranpsphobic to wards the crowd.
Geri says:
1 August, 2022 at 11:40 pm
Christopher Pike.
WM is an English parliament. We know it’s not meant to be but it is by numbers alone & by being repeatedly told it is by lines
——-
Scotland is actually over-represented at WM (9.1% representation with 8.5% of the UK population). The same way the LGBTQ community are over-represented at Holyrood.
Robert Hughes says:
1 August, 2022 at 7:51 pm
” …. M. Horsebox Russell …. ” HA !
Sounds like an extra in a ” Western ” film…
It was “Once Upon A Time In The Westminster”.
Shug.
I will try that again only in less of a hurry,
That comment of yours kept me smiling for quite a while,
But is very very clever thinking on your behalf. Problem sorted, and the tabled new rules for all indy used and turned back on AIM and the snp.
If they set the police on the independence movement to break it up, the police would look transphobic,
After all you only need to self identify not have an op.
Wear pink trousers or Kilt newly named a skirt, with a frilly shirt, you even get to keep your beard if you have one,
All scottish tra….for independence,
What could they do, how could they retaliate without acting transphobic.
The mind boggles.
Christopher Pike
A population controlled by them. How very thoughtful of them.
To keep our population fucked & to have rules where the house always wins because they will always hold the numbers.
Scotland is a country. Hardly 8% rocking up out the street. Over represented my arse! That must explain why Scotland always gets what it wants at WM eh?
Its a GB parliament & each Nation should have proper representation. Until then it has no legitimacy.
All that we seen in spades during brexit was Timmy tant wanting to leave (no one stopped them & they didn’t need to ask them either) & take all the benefits with them, not pay them, & not wishing to comply with the rules to receive those benefits. Freedom of movement. Freedom of goods & services.
There was also the GFA.
All they could craw was they were a Sovereign state & shouldn’t be told what to do. They weren’t being told anything other than they couldn’t have their demands to be special.
Scotland has zero of that shit to deal with & Scots ARE Sovereign. Recognised by both parliaments. It shouldn’t be scoffed at like it’s a nonsense.
That proff is comparing a pile of dog shit that’s totally irrelevant to Scotland.
A Union can be broken. At any stage & for any reason. Its not difficult except for the people who chose to make it so.
ROS yesterday Sunday @ 7.51PM RE Alex Salmond and his assertion that we should proclaim Scotland’s Claim of Right FAR AND WIDE when we are discussing independence for Scotland
OH NO! Surely that will be the death of the ALBA party because he holds NO academic qualifications regarding constitutional matters and as such he is NOT an expert so is NOT QUALIFIED to assert such a thing , he is considered an amateur and should not be listened to unlike other academic constitutional experts
A spokesperson who claims to represent a majority of independence supporters and who is also a self confessed FOUNDING member of the ALBA party has stated unequivocally that the MAJORITY of members who are also indy supporters are incensed and outraged that Alex Salmond is wasting the parties time and energy pursuing this ancient and frankly inconsequential SOVEREIGNTY document
The spokesperson is also outraged that the document refers to the SCOTTISH people and makes no provision or mention of NEW SCOTS or students or holiday home owners or temporary residents , he insists that the SOVEREIGN CLAIM OF RIGHT documentation must specifically name these groups or he will ACTIVELY work against independence
Asserting that he speaks on behalf of the majority of independence supporters whilst denigrating people who request evidence to support his claim he and his small claque of progressive civic nationalists ridicule Alex Salmond’s demand for the CLAIM OF RIGHT to be front and centre in Scotland’s drive for independence because it is divisive nativistic sectarian anglophobic racism which alienates most of the population of Scotland and it should be consigned to the ancient history books because it has no bearing in Scotland’s future
The spokesperson when questioned stated that he had no designs or thoughts on taking public office but he was extremely concerned that Scotland’s new Scots and the international community may feel that the indigenous people were being given priority over people who came here for economic and family reasons which is the opposite of civic progressive nationalism which will be totally frowned upon and opposed by all civic nationalism states
James.
Sadly, their boss is the home secretary. They follow their orders so we’d all be battered anyway.
Look at Sturgeon during the pandemic when the question of monitoring the border came up. She was trumped by Police Scotland who later rebuked her he’d be doing no such thing. Fecking arseholes! That aided the 2nd lock down due to the 2nd spike when we’d nearly eradicated it. A country can’t close cause another country says so. Its a farce.
*eradicated the first wave.
Chas 8:23pm
A 300 yr old document to you.
Ratified by both both parliaments as having legitimacy. When was that ratified again just for good measure? 2018 I’m sure but may have been 2017. Do you think they’ll not scurry off to find their Acts *cause it’s old news & everyone’s bored*? LOL!
Who can disband it.
Either side. Its a Union. Its voluntary. Just like marriage – either side can dissolve it. One may not like it but that’s just tough.
Will Joe Public have a say?
Maybe but not always. Independence is usually agreed between leaders or a declaration is made without them. Ireland, USA to name a few. It may come to that here one day if public opinion is constantly ignored.
If Bawjaws or his predecessors didn’t give a reason it couldn’t then they’d have forced it down our throats by now of why we couldn’t. They can’t so they make excuses to put it off. Wait until brexit, now isn’t the time. Wait until we are over the pandemic..Yadda. Yadda. Instead of actually giving us the *legal* reason.
The only legal part they hold is Holyrood. It’s theirs with their rules as per their devolution agreement.
” It was “Once Upon A Time In The Westminster”. ” LOL !
Aye that’s the one Derek 🙂
@Republicofscotland 9.56 pm
Speak for yourself, almost half the nation expected it, and I might add, the majority of Scots voted yes to independence in 2014, so don’t give me that nonsense.
I’m talking about people in here, not the general public (who also don’t expect or even want one any time soon according to polling). You’re wittering on about the past, 2014 and the fact that if you disenfranchised “New Scots” (contrary to custom and practice in self determination referendums, and in a way that would never have been accepted by either Westminster in the Edinburgh Agreement, or Scottish unionists anyway….so no referendum would have happened at all….genius!) there would have been a majority.
My take on it, of course when Sturgeon is ousted, and it will take that for she is the biggest obstacle to an independent Scotland and a strong indy minded FM is in place and it will happen.
Sturgeon could fall under a bus tomorrow and it wouldn’t bring independence any closer. Fixating on Imelda misses the point that the SNP is a devolutionary party, and that her unsavoury cabal is firmly entrenched. Absent a total overthrow of the current SNP elite by the membership, it isn’t going to change any time soon.
The membership has so far spectacularly failed to make any headway against the TRA extremists and devolutionists who now hold sway in the upper echelons of the party.
the latter can be used to withdraw MPs from Westminster, hold a grand assembly (MPs and MSPs) at Holyrood on a vote to dissolve the union when yes wins, we then organise and hold our own indyref on our own terms, that will be fair and proper.
So no answer to the actual questions asked then? Stun us wi’ another. The SNP aren’t suddenly going to grow a pair and become abstentionists like Sinn Fein, whether Imelda is in charge or not.
We don’t need the whole unlikely and probably unworkable process you sketch out, we just need to win 50% +1 votes in a plebiscitary election, then declare independence. Sorted.
No need for confirmatory referendums after the fact, or Grand Assembly’s of doubtful legitimacy, unknown make up, that nobody can tell us anything about.
again this could be determined by the amount of MPs MSPs for or against independence with the majority prevailing, organising a vote on the Claim of Right would probably be labourious and complicated due to who would be eligible and who would not.
No, it can’t. A majority of MPs and/or MSPs which isn’t backed up by a clear majority OF VOTES, in response to a clear mandate that those votes are plebiscitary, won’t achieve anything. The Claim of Right just means we’re asserting our sovereignty, and don’t accept that Westminster has a veto, it doesn’t mean we can declare independence without demonstrating a majority of Scots – ALL Scots – support it.
You see we need to go to these lengths because the English parliament has and will continue to deny Scotland the democratic right to choose its own future.
The Westminster parliament isn’t saying “never”, its’ just saying it doesn’t think the devolved parliament in Holyrood has the power to dictate terms to them, because they are hung up on the principle of (Westminster) parliamentary supremacy.
If the SC holds in the UK government’s favour WRT holding an indyref without a S30 order being outwith Holyrood’s competence, all it means is we either have to accept that referendums are only going to be valid if negotiated and agreed with Westminster (which may not offer the same terms as for 2014), or we abandon the referendum route altogether.
The next most plausible, simple and probably fastest route is a victory in plebiscitary elections, which would also be pretty easy to sell to the international community. Unlike outlandish unicorn and rainbow wish fulfilment from the half baked “cunning plans for indy” types.
@twathater 2.22 am
A bit awkward for you and a’ the other nativists that Alex is on record – and even reported by one of the other nativists – as saying he thought the 2014 franchise was fine.
If I get the chance, I’ll be sure to ask him and other Alba office holders at the upcoming Alba event in Edinburgh what their views are on disenfranchising New Scots. Perhaps when they all endorse civic nationalism the moonhowlers will find something else to moan about?
«ATTENTION SEEKING»
May we have excess of it, with bells, whistles and clangorous firecrackers. That the Union may sicken and so die.
Scotland is not to be «ignored».
@ Geri, re ‘Daisy 3:19
You’re too kind. WM is not. You’ll be a good neighbor or else. They have the full force of the law at their beck & call & their not afraid to use it.’
I was NOT being kind. I assure you.
I’m tired of the Yes Movement and the Scottish Indy parties always being on the back foot.
My suggestion lobbed a Political Hot Potatoe into the laps of the English parties in Westminster and empowers the English voters to turn up the heat. That should keep them occupied.
Here is how it works… and the fact that it makes Scotland look holier than thou is a bonus.
Currently England has an energy deficit of AT LEAST 20% in electricity terms – which is being met by Scotland’s resources. (about 1/2 in renewables, and anoth 1/2 in Gas, which they use in their turbines to make electricity).
An Energy deficit of that quantity, in any country, where the supply now looks like coming under new ownership – that triggers Emergency Planning and a potential, very real potential, for a declared State of Emergency.
Much easier to justify a State of Emergency if there are riots in the streets.
The Robber Barrons and Right Wing Government working together have created a Cost of Living Crisis in all corners of the UK. It is deliberate.
If our Scottish Indy MP’s get it through to English Voters that Scotland will continue to provide that 20%+ of energy in an Independent Scotland (for a fair price, which we don’t get just now) – on the PROVISION, and ONLY on the PROVISION, that the English Voters get their Elected Reps to sort out the Robber Barrons that are currently fleecing us all.
Then, not only are we the good guys,
not only does Scotland secure a fair price for her assets,
not only are we contributing to stabalising England as a political state,
not only are we empowering the voters of England to give their elected reps a roasting,
but it ends FOREVER, this bullshit myth that England subsidises Scotland, both for English and Scottish voters. Puts it all the way to the back of the net.
Got sod all to do with being ‘kind’.
‘Oh don’t be so stupid, the same process would apply as what was intended if yes had won the 2014 indyref, representatives and lawyers from both governments would sit down and thrash out the details’.
Words of wisdom!! from one of the founder members of the BPHB.
Every day we see posts about Sovereignty of the Scots, Claim of Rights, 300 year old Treaties and according to some, these can be conveniently used to simply bypass the ballot box for Independence. The politicians at Westminster and Holyrood simply agree to this at the behest of the SNP? The electorate do not have a say in the decision or the process whatsoever. Magically, everybody sits down and agrees the way forward. Have I got this right?
According to Geri the Union is like a marriage and either side can dissolve it. Another cunning plan! The fact that currently the majority of the electorate do not want to disband it seems to be a minor irrelevance to the BPHB. If it was that simple why have the SNP not done this already? Maybe they realise that over 50% of the population might be a wee bit miffed!
For the avoidance of any doubt I am a supporter of Independence and would like nothing better to be rid off the shit show that is Tory Westminster. Especially when you witness the competition between Sunak and Truss to see who can lie the most, but I realise that many difficult and awkward questions have to be answered before the MAJORITY of Scots want it. Let’s not discuss currency, defence, central bank. the ‘divvy up’ of UK assets and liabilities, borrowing etc etc. The only thing that RoS got right is that representatives of the respective Governments would need to sit down and thrash out the details. I would not let any SNP politician anywhere near it. Of course, the representatives on each side would be on £10k per day and the process might take a wee while given the magnitude of what is involved.
Another theme running through the BPHB posts are that somehow their desire for Independence, by any means possible, makes them more ‘Scottish’ than any one who disagrees with them. I can easily turn this around by stating that those of us who do not concur with their views are actually protecting them and future generations from ill conceived plans at the very outset.
I repeat, once again, that Independence will ONLY come via the ballot box. The first step has to be getting rid of Sturgeon and her incompetents. Not easy when 30/35% of Scots think the sun shines out of her erse, although the numbers are diminishing daily. How to accelerate the process should be the aims of Alba.
I await the howls of protest and derision from the faithful.
Daisy
The English 20% energy deficit being met by Scotland,
Is the deficit being met by Scottish owned Companies? Or could it be by foreign owned Companies who are in the business of meeting demand and maximising profits for their shareholders, irrespective of where the power is generated or consumed.
A bit like the Oil Companies in reality.
Mia 10.54:
“Some host on LBC yesterday was a classic example. The Greeks want their artifacts back! Pronto! = Naw. They’re too stupid to look after them. Only we can do that. The government is unstable to care for their priceless artifacts. We must remain the proper castodians. We’ve got museums & everything – they haven’t! LOL! We can invite them to come look at them or give them on loan. WTF!?
Bottom line. If its worth anything it’s theirs.”
Quite, such entitled arrogance is their trade mark. Just about the best archaeological museum I have ever seen is in Heraklion on Crete. The quality of restoration and presentation of the artefacts on display there are superb and shame the often decontextualised and superficial treatment of objects in the likes of the National Museum of Scotland or Kelvingrove in Glasgow.
It’s as pathetic and patronising an attitude as British and American academics lecturing the Greeks on how to pronounce their ancient, classical language.
Tinto Chiel, a bit like when adventurers from these shores ‘discovered’ places – the locals were discounted or enslaved or killed either deliberately or accidentally.
@ Chas at 8:40am
I guess you missed reading this part of Daisy’s post?
“…that the English Voters get their Elected Reps to sort out the Robber Barrons that are currently fleecing us all.”
I mean England’s “Brexit” was all about taking back control after all. So taking back some control to rein in the worst elements of these foreign owned or global corporations that are fleecing folk the world over can’t be that big a stretch for them if they genuinely were looking out for the majority of folk in the UK.
Oh, but they’re not really looking out for the majority of folk they govern over are they…
Daisy Walker says:
2 August, 2022 at 8:29 am
Currently England has an energy deficit of AT LEAST 20% in electricity terms – which is being met by Scotland’s resources. (about 1/2 in renewables, and anoth 1/2 in Gas, which they use in their turbines to make electricity).
If I remember correctly (may have even read it here), if all of Scotland’s turbines were allowed to work, there would be plenty to export to England, but there’s one snag – and that is there’s only one cable heading down south which simply lacks the capacity to export anything extra in a meaningful manner.
The matter was raised time and time again with Theresa May, first as Home Secretary, then as Prime Minister, but Tinfoil Theresa didn’t want to do anything that gave the Scots extra leverage, and would not allow the planting of the extra cables – as fine an example of cutting off one’s nose to spite one’s face as you’d ever see.
The end result has been customers paying energy companies higher bills for wind turbines lying idle with only a few turned on in certain areas because of “over capacity” issues. It’s madness: one of the many surrounding green energy that are beyond belief at the stupidity at those in charge.
But you can whistle if you expect Scotland’s Greens to bother their arse about such matters when they believe it’s more important to improve grooming opportunities for nonces than save the planet – or at least this bit of it.
~@£15 a pop there could be worse ideas out there than getting Andy and his new scot pals into the sea;
eg Liz Truss’s one on ignoring Nicola Sturgeon – sounds harlmless, and even quite attractive at first, (especially if tempered by the thought of it originating with team Salmond / some combination of Pierce Corbyn, Rees Mogg and David Ike) but when taken up a level signals very much a call to boycott ir2 AND any GE/ defacto referendum (in perpetuity?).
ie, when taken in parallel with the ridiculing of SALVO’s efforts by folks higher up the food chain who ought to know better, and possibly (much) more than they pretend, the only plus side risks being that the Scots voter, English or not, need never again feel guilty for their choices – because they simply wont be getting any.
@ Mark.
There are new HVDC cables being run to assist in the exportation of leccy generated here. An acquaintance is an engineer for one of the projects.
Of course we could use some of that green leccy to power our trains… But as was briefly discussed btl a few months back, our train track infrastructure is woeful often being single track with passing loops, and only electrified to about Dunblane from Edinburgh and Glasgow.
This means the locomotives have to be diesel fueled to cover our track network where there’s no electrification.
Re. SALVO, Sarah Salyers etc etc – keep all the excellent work up!
The Yoons on here are getting shriller and shriller in their derision so we must be onto something! Excellent….
The mechanics of the «how» regarding independence are minor compared to the emerging ignore Scotland and save the Uk policy being formulated by the likes of Truss.
Systematic marginalization of Scottish concerns, interests, to the greater good of the Uk, plus the underpowered performance of the SNP bode ill unless there is a significant increase in pro active politics.
Sturgeon looks too much like the stereotypical whinging Scottish politician with which Ukania feels comfortable and safe.
Enough of the Scottish Notary party.
Re energy and energy companies.
The thing about energy, unlike say cars, is it is neither created nor destroyed, and some geographical areas have an abundance, while others do not.
You can make a car just about anywhere. You can’t just wish your country to have lots of oil reserves in its territory, or gas, or indeed wave and wind power.
And with regards the argument, ‘well what can we do, its the big bad companies that are responsible, not the governments…’
Let me just point to France. The government there said 4% energy price cap, and when that wasn’t enough, took the biggest energy company back into public ownership.
Oh but that could never happen here in dear old Blighty… oh do you think so.
Back in the 1990’s (conincidentally just before Scotland’s devolution) the National Grid got taken off the stock exchange… as did Scotland’s major Ports.
I’m going to say this again, because folk really need to wake up to just how important it is.
Governments have GOT to look at the countries Energy supplies, and Food Security. Even before it looks to securing its physical borders.
With an energy Deficit of AT LEAST 20% England is in dire straights if it cannot secure its current source…. which comes from Scotland… and that is before we even talk about oil and gas.
We MUST do a deal with our English neighbours and fellow voters. We must empower them to sort out their elected reps, to then sort out the robber barrons.
A fair price for Scotland’s energy, a fair price for England’s heating bill. A win, win for both, and the Robber Barrons gas put on a peep.
It is in the interests of the peoples of both countries and the steady governance of both, that this is achieved as a matter of urgency.
Failure to do so, enables the right wing and corrupt to find someone to blame, then rabble rouse, then move in the army.
Ottomanboi 9:51
Sturgeon looks too much like the stereotypical whinging Scottish politician with which Ukania feels comfortable and safe.
Enough of the Scottish Notary party.
A rare bit of true insight about England, and quite possibly Scotland too. Both nations locked in a ritual dance that progresses nothing. The Scottish chip, chuntering away, the English snook, cocking itself in response. The Union sustains.
The English people are not against Scottish independence but neither are they for it. They have never had any direct say in it nor ever will, so it is a sideshow, with Sturgeon increasingly coming across as a kind of parody of a nationalist, a performing puppet, but her strings are being pulled by a simulacrum of nationalism, not the real thing.
But none of this matters as what the English think is irrelevant and they do not elect their politicians with any care about what the politician’s view is on Scottish autonomy, if they even know what it is.
Personally, I would like to see either a federal arrangement or completely autonomous nations, that either way, co-operated as friends for the mutual benefit of both. But who cares? There is literally nothing I can do to help bring this about.
Sorry, quotation bold should end after Scottish Notary Party.
@Daisy Walker (10.09) –
‘A fair price for Scotland’s energy, a fair price for England’s heating bill. A win, win for both, and the Robber Barrons gas put on a peep.’
Scottish independence is something we all feel passionate about but it doesn’t exist in a vacuum. If we want to change our place in this world we first have to understand what our position is currently and how we got here. Understanding the origin of a phrase like ‘robber barons’ is key and means studying some history which isn’t exclusively ‘Scottish’ or ‘English’ for that matter.
The greedy sociopathic bastards have been getting away with it for a lot longer than most realise.
(Okay, Wikipedia isn’t everyone’s cup of tea, I know, but it’s a good place for a general overview and the links at the bottom are often more revealing than the main article.)
link to en.wikipedia.org
😉
Jacob Rees-Mogg getting a free platform on Sky to denigrate Sturgeon and Scotland. The Sturgeon part i don’t mind but when he states, without so much as a blink, “what we need to do is hold Sturgeon to account and say how the Union benefits people” i can’t help but think: ‘pot/kettle’ and what “people?”
The irony of Rees-Mogg getting to talk about holding anyone to account whilst he and his Etonian bumchums get away with absolutely anything and everything. Idea straight off the cuff – someone should have replied: ‘Yes, you seem to do alright out of this Union don’t you? With the several hundred million you got of taxpayers money to refurb your wife’s ancestral home.’ Then watch the bastard squirm.
I detest Sturgeon but the likes of SkyNews etc need to be called out over their bias. Just because they do not have any legal requirement to be neutral doesn’t mean we cannot expose their corrupt practices. And they can say what they like about Skanky Sturgeon but they don’t get away, without challenge, on lying about Scotland.
Commercial channels, just like newspapers, are not enforced by law to be neutral, unlike the BBC. But even the BBC will tell us that does not apply in times of great importance. Such as during political referendums etc.
While we all sit arguing with each other the Unionist propaganda machine is in full flow. And here on WOS we still have so-called indy supporters helping to promote clicks to those Unionist sites and being too lazy to archive a record of articles.
I’m also reliably informed the Tories have even pinched an idea first touted on here by getting A5 booklets printed and posted through letterboxes. Yip! Sturgeon’s pre-occupied with ‘cocks-in-frocks’ whilst “Wingers” argue over franchises & conspiracies.
Then some folk wonder why the poll figures are not budging from the supposed 48% or whatever the Unionists claim ‘Yes’ is at?
James says:
2 August, 2022 at 9:45 am
Re. SALVO, Sarah Salyers etc etc – keep all the excellent work up!
The Yoons on here are getting shriller and shriller in their derision so we must be onto something! Excellent….
Poor James. Poor silly, silly boy.
The one hour twenty four minutes YouTube video of the SSRG Conference – Douglas Chapman (SNP), Neale Hanvey (Alba), Sara Salyers – Q & A The Way Forward – has attracted exactly 337 views.
337 views.
Only 25 people could be arsed to upvote it, which suggests even that 337 is optimistic and was bumped up by site scrapers.
The Scottish Sovereignty Research Group’s website since its inception on 14th April 2021 has achieved less than five thousand hits, according to Similarweb (link to similarweb.com).
The Salvo.Scot website by marked contrast has achieved seventeen and a half thousand and it’s only been around since February by comparison. That would at least be a sign for some hope … but the worrying part is that the average length of time anyone spends on it is a mere half second, suggesting that all SALVO’s done right is got someone to code it like the big kids’ websites so it would be noticed by search engines and site scrapers far better, but not actually got anyone to read the bloody thing.
In an era of most people having the attention span of a gnat, not a Nat, is that surprising? And these are the one’s needing to be won over.
This is just a middle class version of the antics Sean Clerkin and Peter Dow get up to – and it doesn’t make it any the more futile because it’s more “high brow”. No one’s getting “shriller and shriller in their derision” about this James, and it’s Black Pampas levels of delusion to think otherwise that the Yoons, never mind Joe Public, care less about it.
@ Southernbystander, ‘But none of this matters as what the English think is irrelevant and they do not elect their politicians with any care about what the politician’s view is on Scottish autonomy, if they even know what it is.’
The extent of the Robber Barron / Cost of Life/Energy Crisis is being played out on English Voters and Scottish.
It is being done deliberately, with a view to provocing Civil Unrest. by which I mean Riots.
The Poll Tax lead to protest in Scotland, and Riots in the streets of London.
It matters not, in which country, or cities, the riots take place, it will be wall to wall TV coverage, and used as an excuse to impose a State of Emergency.
English voters may have no interest or knowledge of Scotland… but they need to be informed about what is going on, so that they are not ‘useful tools’ of the Robber Barrons/Britnat estate.
It is not in the interest of the Scottish Nation to fleece the people of England. Right just now, it’s entirely in the interests of the English Government to do so.
“There is no English Parliament. England has no form of devolution.”
Thank you Chris Pike.
Q.E.D
“According to Geri the Union is like a marriage and either side can dissolve it. Another cunning plan! The fact that currently the majority of the electorate do not want to disband it seems to be a minor irrelevance to the BPHB. If it was that simple why have the SNP not done this already?”
The majority of the electorate in Scotland are unaware of the claim of Right or UDI, simply because it has been kept hidden from them, by Westminster the Britnat media and that treacherous b*stard Sturgeon, with another strong indy minded FM in place information would’ve been repeated to the public on the multiple benefits of independence and in turn the percentage for would rise, but Sturgeon isn’t interested in independence, her actions prove that once and for all.
“For the avoidance of any doubt I am a supporter of Independence”
The sound of laughter ad finitum, your comments certainly don’t show it.
Stoker says:
2 August, 2022 at 11:06 am
I’m also reliably informed the Tories have even pinched an idea first touted on here by getting A5 booklets printed and posted through letterboxes.
Oh! You mean the “original” idea done by the Socialist Party of Great Britain, the Social Credit Party of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, the National Front, the continuing Liberal Party, the Moscow Gold funded CPGB and every other micro-party there’s ever been and ever will be with access to its own press and able to afford the luxury?
To say nothing of the umpteen happy clappies merrily shoving little pamphlets with Bambi staples through my door telling me the wages of sin are death without even bothering to say how much of it is taken by the government in National Insurance contributions and what Satan’s workplace pension is like (does it include a sizeable contribution by the employer? Will it be final salary? In short, how deathy will my death be upon retirement?)
“Reliably informed” … up there with “a source said” in the “am completely making all of the following up” stakes.
Chas 8:30am
‘Have I got this right?’
No, you haven’t.
You’re original disdain was regards no one answering your questions. I answered.
The claim of right is ratified by both parliaments. It means something. It also means something in legal terms. So people can talk about their contents all day long if they like! Its not some mythical nonsense from over 300 yrs ago. Its updated & valid & has approval. That was my point.
No one mentioned bypassing the electorate. What I said was it isn’t always put to a referendum if there is public support for Independence that’s constantly ignored. An example of that is the original plan B.
The Union is just that. A Union. Its voluntary & it can end. Either side can walk. Yes, it is that simple. Its only your mindset that constantly finds ways to reaffirm that it can’t which only gives legitimacy to the tossers in WM saying no.
If Scots were bound forever to English rule they’d have knocked indyref2 & the SNP on the nut eons ago!
They didn’t because they can’t. A Union can end. Its that simple & they know it – that’s why the constant bluster & filibuster. If its not a Union & it’s not voluntary then they’d have to explain why its not. The UK doesn’t have a written constitution so an endless parade of so called *constitutional experts* are howling at the moon. How can we be breaking something that doesn’t exist? Would be my 1st question to them. & My 2nd one would be why they’re wasting their valuable *expertise* on something that unwritten.
Why haven’t the SNP done it already? Because they’re spineless. Imelda want’s what you seem to want. Guarantees to walk it into the back of the net to standing ovations. With everyone & their dug all agreeing. That’s never going to happen.
Lawyers & leaders thrashing out the exit post indy:
We’ll obviously. *Rolls eyes*
We’re not even at that point yet.
Daisy:
The you’re too kind comment. I meant I’d threaten to turn it off. The English don’t view the world as normal people. They’re entitled & everything is theirs. We see that by their actions everyday. i.e Scotland doesn’t have resources – the *UK* does. It’s theirs. They couldn’t give a crap about being nice to Scotland. They’ll bring change themselves starting with strikes. Bring the country to a standstill. That’s the only language they know. You’d be surprised at them constantly voting Tory. They like them & their toxic world view.
Celebrity Death Match please…
Truss vs Sturgeon
Two political featherweights desperately trying to punch above their weight.
I vote for the Hon. Member for the 18th Century to referee.
@ Dorothy Devine 9.05: “a bit like when adventurers from these shores ‘discovered’ places – the locals were discounted or enslaved or killed either deliberately or accidentally.”
Yes, I’m always amazed David Livingstone discovered Victoria Falls, particularly when the locals already knew enough about this enormous natural feature to call them “the thundering smoke” in the Makolo language.
Geri spot on very good post
Tinto 8:56am.
Exactly. The self entitlement was boak inducing both from the host & the caller’s. Everyone in the world are heathens & barbarians & it’s only they who are educated & civilised. The Greeks need to shut it & be thankful they’re there to save the day & can take care of their priceless treasures for them.
Sadly that’s their mindset on everything. They went mental over Wills & Kate’s trip to the Caribbean too. The racist mindset came to the ranting fore again about how they’ll never apologise for slavery or compensate them either. How dare they even ask for that! – Peasants! Without us…Yadda.
& Don’t mention the exiled Meghan! Sheesh!
They not only have a sense of entitlement but they’re spiteful too. Each suggesting ways to round them all up & banish & punish them for leaving.
Who do these peasants think they are!
So anyone in England caring what Scots think? Umm – that’ll be a no.
Mark Boyle;
As I said….”shriller and shriller…”
SOUTHERNBYSTANDER.
On current performance the England Scotland game is unlikely to deliver any surprises. Great Game it is destined not to be.
Both teams have had the same political coaching. It runs in the family.
The English, that is the «establishment», are rather more imaginative not to say confident.
The intermittent Scottish «sledging» doesn’t faze them too much.
Scotland!, back in your corner says Truss. Grumble, grumble..and a surprising number oblige.
link to medium.com
Andy Ellis 2.22am
What will you do if they don’t agree with you?
What was the franchise in 2014 regards new Scots? How many years did they have to live here to have a vote?
Also, your arrogance is astounding. You mistakenly assume all EU citizens will be in a rush to vote nationalist. Umm, they didn’t the last time.
Nationalism is a dirty word to them to be met with absolute horror. They lived it & escaped it.
You’ve also got the same arrogance as the SNP – everything is to be conducted to your set of rules.
Politely fuck off.
You don’t get to be the self appointed foreman of a movement that doesn’t personally belong to you & get to spit rules around. & Don’t forget it. Go start your own movement if you feel that strongly everyone should follow you. There’s a name for that.
If you’d ever attended a rally you’d know it takes *all sorts* with differing views that may not all agree but only on the goal of independence.
This is what happens with movements that never seize the day. They start eating themselves & the rot sets in to take center stage & make jumped up rules they’ve zero authority to implement. Then everyone just fecks off home. Game over.
“Nicola Sturgeon rallies SNP with call for public energy company”
link to ft.com
That particular “promise” was made in 2017. However, by 2021, we were told “Scottish Government drops national energy company plans…”
link to insider.co.uk
Yesterday in the Daily Express, of all places, George Kerevan makes the point;
“The worst decision economically taken by the SNP Government has been to repudiate the decision of the party’s conference to create a National Energy Corporation and so bring all energy under some form of state control.
“The disastrous consequences of that decision have never been more obvious.”
Watch this space.
Remind us how many Scots supposdly took us into the union in 1707.
Ohhh what do you mean, it was not the MAJORITY of Scots.
What do you it doesn’t take all of the Scots living in Scotland to make or break a treaty.
But a small handful of private people in Scotland,
Thats whom did it at the beginning
Of course we can end this union treaty without authority or consent of all Scotland , thats how it was entered into.
The treaty it self does not make any stipulations on this matter in the Claim of Right. That England agreed to, and ratified,
James says:
2 August, 2022 at 12:33 pm
Mark Boyle;
As I said….”shriller and shriller…”
As I said … “Poor James. Poor silly, silly boy … Black Pampas level of delusion.”
@Geri (1.03) –
🙂 🙂 🙂
Hear hear.
Andy has let it be known that he will be at the upcoming Alba event in Edinburgh and might have a word with Alex Salmond, so we (and Alex) have that to look forward to.
@Hatuey 1:12pm
Re: National Energy. I will add to your post by saying that £500000 was spent on Consultants before the proposal was dropped. Let’s be generous and say that is only 750 consultant hours. I haven’t seen any analysis or any documentation produced as a result of this taxpayer expenditure. Another secret? Why no scrutiny? Basic question of who got paid and what did they produce?. A simple question of normal governance by a Corporate organisation or a Government.
Ian..
Lucky you. Not! 😀
He’ll be on no doubt to try invoke what Wings says about x, y & z like he’s a 10 yr old running to his Da..
Is Wings a god? No. I’m sure he’d be the 1st to agree he isn’t.
Is Wings ever wrong? Yes. IMO.
I can remember the SNP 1&2 barney after the momentum of 2014 & not splitting the vote as an example. Look how that’s ended. A bunch of nutters with ALL the power to do as they please are in charge & no opposition to stop them or shift them. RISE was shite – no mistake. Labour dressed up but it’d at least have been indy & would’ve at least taken some seats seats off a few unionists & taken sole control away from only having one political party & the great thing about elections is the seating arrangements can change. If they didn’t establish or prove themselves as credible they’d have been replaced. Now everyone seems to have SNP 1&2 engrained on their brain forever & it’s groundhog Day trying to shift it.
Much that was to the benefit of the Scots has been kept deliberately in the dark from the Sovereign Scottish before, and after the treaty of the union by the English parliament and later on when it transferred over to being the British parliament.
If Scots had been fully informed prior and in 2014 that the Scots had the “Claim of Right” wrote into the treaty of the union, The Result may have been entirely different.
How many Scots were in knowledge of McCrone report then, or even today come to that.
How many Scots were aware that the Scottish parliament was disbanded by the Scots before the treaty of union was signed.
Geri @ 12 11: ‘So anyone in England caring what Scots think? .. I don’t think so’.
The problem is not what the English care about, it’s what the Scots care about. And a majority of Scots seem not to care about having a referendum, and not to care about being independent, if the polls are to be believed.
A way must be found to increase support for independence and change these figures Otherwise we will be faced with the question: ‘Does the independence movement care what the majority of Scots think?’
I cannot see a way forward whilst the SNP are running ( or perhaps I should say ruining) the country.
Tuesday Tip:
Save money on expensive carpet cleaning products by mixing equal amounts of washing-up liquid and white vinegar with a wee toty bit of bleach in a ‘skooshy’ bottle, spray on the carpet, leave for 5 mins, then get down there and scrub/wipe with old towelling type material. Especially effective for pet stains.
Gets a good sweat going and saves a fortune!
😉
Don’t forget to dilute the mixture – 15/1 should be about right.
😉
Ian. Have you been following the YouTube motivational influencers? So have I.? Here’s how to clean your coffee machine. Run vinegar & a wee toty bit of dish soap through it. Rinse clear. Also soak fruit the same way to dissolve pesticides & gunk.
Cleaning vinegar is now getting extortionate to buy! Grrr!
James.
To go into battle with the enemy physically or politically one first needs an opponent.
Those shrilling here the put down club. that category on here has led us into alternative thinking, we are eternally grateful.
They try rail road down a narrow limited choice of path of their their advantage.
Then they wanted to know every detail of our new plans. to spoil probabilities.
Then they need to emphasise to us it won’t work.
Then they tell us it wont work if they are not included.
Then they try the derogatory be-littling approach when all else starts failing to squash their opponents.
This is usually the end of their game, when all else has failed to stem the alternative tide.
Like many here it is annoying but also refreshing to find that their is little else up their sleeves in the way off ammo.
Sticks and stones…etc etc
Without a opponent their is no political battle to be fought, and they are and have been very helpful on here in keeping our determination going when often we may have flagged.
Being constantly berated as being, To Wee, To Poor, To Stupid is ammo that we sorely needed,
It identifies our opponents, it gives us focus, it keeps the Yes for independence going forward and they are often called useful idiots for the determination they provide us with not to be squashed under foot.
@Geri –
Aye, the auld vinegar works wonders so it does.
Apple cider vinegar in the morning, half-and-half with water, just a wee glass, gets the stiffness out of the joints.
😉
Umm, they didn’t the last time.”
I don’t know the “official” figures from the Ashcroft poll (or even if he actually polled EU voters separately) but a lot of time was spent in the Hamilton/Motherwell/Wishaw area by BLiS______d targeting the significantly large Polish community (but not just them) with the simple message :”Vote Yes and you’ll be kicked out the EU.” This was one of MP Jimmy Hood’s favourite wheezes (along with trying to scare OAPs Goveless over state pensions). In my canvassing experience, this was one of the main reasons for EU nationals being reluctant to vote Yes.
Even if we could magically turn EU nationals to vote our way in the future (and if they were allowed to vote), I think we would find many had left Scotland already because we had been dragged out of Europe by the Tories and the SNP had done nothing to stop it. Instead, it drove a big yella bus around the country trying to stop England from following the political course it had actually voted for, however misguidedly.
That Brexit vote should have been the wedge to prise this rotten union apart but of course Nikla managed to Iwelumo it over the bar from about three feet out.
Sorry, Geri, this got chopped off my first paragraph: “You mistakenly assume all EU citizens will be in a rush to vote nationalist.”
Has the BBC asked bobbing Ross for his thoughts on Lizz Truss comments
Just asking for a friend
Awe aunty we love you so
@Hatuey 1:12pm
I have been doing a big of digging. There was a Scot Gov FOI, partially granted. The question asked, What advice was received from Independent Consultants with regard to the establishment of a Public Energy Company. The answer was the business case on balance was not in the Public Interest to be published as yet. The second part of the FOI was granted and published the Strategic Outline Case (SOC), Ernst and Young wrote the report back in 2018 with implementation plans. It concluded that the establishment of a Public Energy Company was possible with caveats re the innovative fast moving Energy market but crucially mechanisms and migitation to manage risk were available. The SOC was published in 2019 adding that fuel poverty in Scotland was problematic. We are just about to be hit by the biggest energy crisis in 2022, well within the original timescale proposed by Ernst and Young. I am printing the SOC but on first glance it looks comprehensive. It makes me weep.
So Putin has banned Sturgeon from entering Russia, I wish to f*ck we could ban her from Scotland for good.
” said the best thing to do would be to ignore Nicola Sturgeon as she’s an ‘attention seeker’”.”
Said the wannabe next Margaret Thatcher, Lizz Truss, I wish we could just ignore Sturgeon and she’d slink into a dark corner but that’s not going to happen.
Republicofscotland.
It is getting to the stage where we must start ignoring the devolved government altogether under self determination.
After all it is not the Scottish government, it is Westminsters government branch office in Scotland with sworn allegience to the crown.
Not the sovereign people of Scotland,
McCormack V Lord Advocate 1953.
The principle of unlimited sovereignty of parliament is a distinctly English principle, and has no counterpart in Scottish Constitutional Law.
Tinto.
I know. How stupid was that yella bus out trying to void her own mandate while trying to overturn a democratic vote too?
If Sturgeon had brains she’d be dangerous. If we’d voted Yes in 2014 we’d be rightly pissed off another country wanted to overturn it.
This is her problem – she’s shit at strategy & surrounded by advisors that are equally shit at strategy. Her mandate & the refusal to be consulted over the terms of Brexshit that directly affected Scotland should’ve been her time to strike hard – Mayhem was already in disarray. Instead she pitches our wagon to Labours coattails.
2nd vote Emily Thornby:
‘We’ll negotiate better Brexshit terms with the EU then have a 2nd vote’
SNP: Then what, Emily?
‘Then we’ll campaign against it’
SNP: So, we negotiate a deal with the EU then we campaign against our own deal?
‘Yes!’
SNP: ‘Excellent idea! Sign us up to that cunning & daring plan too!!’
‘No. Not you. You can feck off. We’ll not work with you’
??????
Time & time again she won’t be told labour want feck all to do with *separatists* Its beyond embarrassing now.
I’m sure many EU have left. I know a few followers I had on twitter did with a lot of cursing to Mike Russell that went ignored. How easy would it have been to say *After independence we’ll have a transitional period where we’ll be negotiating our own re-entry during Scotland’s exit*
To be clear – I’ve never said EU citizens should be disinfranchised from voting. That’s his tangent. What I said was I think voters should be resident for x amount of years to take part in constitutional matters like indyref2. That turned into a tangent of nativist moon howler slurs.
They may have no intention of even living here x amount of yrs from now. They could pack their bags & leave 2 months after the vote for all any of us know. Other countries best practices on referendums should be followed. The UKs is 15 yrs resident. Did Andy have a tangent on any Unionists forums about their stupidity & lessons on being civic? LOL
Geri says:
2 August, 2022 at 1:03 pm
What was the franchise in 2014 regards new Scots? How many years did they have to live here to have a vote?
link to archive.ph
It looks to me as if it could be anytime as long as you were here before the 2nd September.
“The deadline to register for the referendum is Tuesday 2 September.”
Ann Landels, the director of the centre in Edinburgh, said: “Although it is possible to register to vote, even if you don’t have a permanent home, a lot of people don’t know that.
Anyone experiencing homelessness can register to vote by making a “declaration of local connection”.
Anyone know how the process works for the homeless.
Can they register online and where do they pick up their polling card?
Republicofscotland.
It is getting to the stage where we must start ignoring the devolved government altogether under self determination.
After all it is not the Scottish government, it is Westminsters government branch office in Scotland with sworn allegience to the crown.
Not the sovereign people of Scotland,
McCormack V Lord Advocate 1953.
The principle of unlimited sovereignty of parliament is a distinctly English principle, and has no counterpart in Scottish Constitutional Law.
OT, sometime there is difficulty in getting comment through posting, any one else having that problem?
Sturgeon has deleted her crass retweet from earlier which appeared to ‘celebrate’ the number of casualties in the ongoing conflict ‘over there’. It has now been deleted but the damage has been done – she’s losing the plot.
She may – and probably will – blame someone else but it appeared on her account. If she’s not even bothering to screen her own social media output then what kind of characters does she have doing it for her?
It seems that nary a day goes past without the SNP digging itself deeper – the question now has to be, are they doing it intentionally?
link to archive.ph
This guy got rejected because he was living with a friend.
That is why we launched a joint voter registration campaign this week targeted at people living in rented, homeless or temporary accommodation.
It sounds as if you could rent a room in Scotland & register to vote. You just needed to register to vote before 2nd September. Not sure if this could all be done online at the same time as registering for a postal vote. Get a friend to forward mail sent to the address where you rented a room and you wouldn’t even have to set foot in Scotland.
What happens with friends & family of holiday home owners?
THE GREAT BERWICK BANK ROBBERY”
AT UK GOVERNMENT OFFICES
WEDNESDAY 3 AUGUST 2022 A 11:00 AM
QUEEN ELIZABETH HOUSE, SIBBALD WALK,
EDINBURGH EH8 8FT
ALBA Party Depute Leader and MP for East Lothian Kenny MacAskill will take part in a PHOTO CALL with a “Highway robber”outside the UK Government offices at Queen Elizabeth House, Sibbald Walk, Edinburgh, EH8 8FT tomorrow – Wednesday 3 August 2022 at 11:00 am. The purpose of the Photo Call is to highlight the “Great Berwick Bank Robbery”.
Mr MacAskill will outline how the development of Berwick Bank offshore windfarm will see the massive energy resources off Scotland’s shores being siphoned South with little or no revenues or benefits being returned to the people of Scotland. The connection being prepared to Blyth, Northumberland will take 40% of the energy directly south without landing in Scotland.
The Berwick Bank offshore windfarm in the outer Firth of Forth will generate 4.1 Giga watt making it one of the largest offshore windfarms in the World. With over 300 turbines it will be capable of creating the Giga watt capacity to power nearly 3 million homes – far exceeding Scotland’s own energy needs where the number of households is only 2.5 million.
See you there folks.
@Geri 1.03 pm
I didn’t make a comment at 2.22 am….you probably have me confused with the moonhowlers….? 🙂
James che says:
2 August, 2022 at 2:49 pm
James.
To go into battle with the enemy physically or politically one first needs an opponent.
Those shrilling here the put down club. that category on here has led us into alternative thinking, we are eternally grateful.
They try rail road down a narrow limited choice of path of their their advantage.
And there was me thinking that the “opponent” was the unionists. Silly me! It is of course those daring to disagree with “James Che” and his half-dozen pseuds. Yes, all part of the “cunning plan” to stop his genius leading the people to paradise.
You are Luna Lovegood’s dad and I claim my free Nimbus 2001 and box of moonfrogs.
Years ago, I remember with eternal amusement reading in Clyde Books or the archives of the National Library of Scotland the various newspapers and pamphlets of politics’ lunatic fringe – from the quasi-religious obsessions of ideological purity within the Heinz 57 varieties of Marxism to the conspiracy and Jew fixated drivel of the far-right. Somewhere inbetween came the likes of the Scottish Republican Socialists, Siol nan Gaidheal and their various alias – all sounding remarkably the same, if a little less threatening (to one’s sanity, at any rate).
Here we are in 2022, and you can go to the Stormfront website, David Icke’s website, the Extinction Rebellion forums, and largely read the same old shit with different nouns that “James Che” pedals ad nauseum about fifth columnists behind every fourth pillar, all with one thing in common – anyone disagreeing with them.
Come to that, every sports club to church hall with a committee, every voluntary group, there’s always one showhog for whom it’s always got to be about them and their point of view, and lord help anyone that gets on their “enemies list” … actually, from experience, lord help more those daft enough to show understanding to them as they’ll latch onto them for life.
You can try to be nice about it, try to understand perhaps it’s their overriding passion to the cause, or it comes from a psychological need, but eventually it comes to the stage that you can’t fix some people’s fatal addiction to be complete and utter twats for the sheer hell of it without once wondering about the common denominator of why every “cause” they get involved with seems to turn to shit.
John Swinney presenting the begging bowl and asking the Tories for more money, makes me cringe.
“It is getting to the stage where we must start ignoring the devolved government altogether under self determination.
After all it is not the Scottish government, it is Westminsters government branch office in Scotland with sworn allegience to the crown.”
Spot on James Che.
We’re fighting on two fronts, The Scottish government who are not the party of Scottish independence anymore, a vote for the NuSNP is a vote to stay tied to the union. We’re also trying to counter the English government and its all its parties none of which supports Scottish independence.
As you rightly state the NuSNP are a unionist party now, claiming we need Westminster’s approval to hold an indyref, when they know fine well we don’t.
If you support ditching this rancid union then you MUST vote for the Alba party at every turn, we need more indy minded folk to see through Sturgeon and her unionist hoarde, her gutless and spineless MSPS and MPs. Until we oust Whitehall’s puppet from Bute House we’re going nowhere.
Geri
‘The claim of right is ratified by both parliaments’-Wow I will sleep easier in my bed tonight knowing that. Does that mean Independence is imminent? If Yes-How?
‘No one mentioned bypassing the electorate. What I said was it isn’t always put to a referendum if there is public support for Independence that’s constantly ignored’. Does the majority of the public currently support Independence Geri? The evidence would point to NO.
‘The Union is just that. A Union. Its voluntary & it can end. Either side can walk. Yes, it is that simple.’ That comment is breathtaking in it’s naivety. Why has Scotland not walked to date?
I would respond to your longest paragraph if only it made some sense.
You might not want answers to the awkward and difficult questions, on the basis that ‘it will all be fine’, but I suspect that there are millions of Scots who do. I think I will put you down as another of the romantics and dreamers.
Daisy I’m spitting nails. It’s the frustration that we can’t get this and other vital info out into the public arena that has me chewing my steering wheel. We are being robbed and shat on at the same time.
The SNP should be shrieking this from Holyrood to Westminster.
An impassioned plea from RoS for everybody to vote for Alba.
I am all for that but I fear that anyone disillusioned with the SNP and stumbling upon WoS would read some of his/her/it’s posts and immediately be turned off for ever.
Republicofscotland says:
2 August, 2022 at 6:45 pm
If you support ditching this rancid union then you MUST vote for the Alba party at every turn, we need more indy minded folk to see through Sturgeon and her unionist hoarde, her gutless and spineless MSPS and MPs. Until we oust Whitehall’s puppet from Bute House we’re going nowhere.
Wait, what?
All of a sudden you’re now an ALBA SUPPORTER??????
Geri . Excellent series of posts above .
Chas.
‘Why has Scotland not walked to date’
Let me see! Hmmmm..FFS!
Why do you think? Pick one, any one you like:
A gutless imposter awaiting polls GUARANTEEING a win?
A gutless wonder waiting on a Labour government?
A gutless wonder waiting on a rainbow coalition?
A gutless wonder that’s squandered her mandates?
A gutless wonder who’d not listen to plan B first time around?
A gutless wonder who won’t refuse to comply with WM?
A gutless wonder who’ll not name a date?
A gutless wonder who isn’t interested in Indy & never has been?
There were several mandates given to her. She refused to use any of them to do what’s repeatedly been suggested:
Use Holyrood election for indy.
Use Holyrood to hold an opinion poll.
Remove WM duds from WM & stop complying.
Start preparing.
& Most of all..
STOP fkn asking for a section 30!! Its over. Move the fk on!
No. ‘She’ll’ decide all on her ownsome when she’s good & ready.
& Chas..
Stop belittling the Claim of Right. You should sleep easy. At least that was ratified & it does carry weight unlike the SFA Sturgeon has done. You have that at least recorded in the vaults at WM & has helped indy. It gave us devolution.
When it was doubly ratified again in 2017. THAT was the time to walk out & start Indy.
Its no one’s fault Sturgeon just chose to sit on her arse. Joe public can’t call a referendum. That’s what she was elected & given a mandate to do.
Robert
Cheers! ?
@Chas
Most folk in Alba I know take a dim view of the views of folk like Republicofscotland who shill for Vlad and his nice bunch of lads, or who double down on saying that “the Country that shall not be named” had it coming.
The leadership were quick to terminate the candidate in Fife who espoused similarly abhorrent views with extreme prejudice prior to the last elections. I think they know such views are electoral poison even if the Wolfie Smith types in here don’t.
Some really great comments today, people, positive and constructive. Note how the naysayers armed with their unionist arguments go quiet when you ignore them and focus on the stuff that matters to us.
Indyfada!
“Wait, what?
All of a sudden you’re now an ALBA SUPPORTER??????”
Mark Boyle.
Try paying attention, when Sturgeon f*cked us on the supermajority at the last Holyrood elections I’ve been advocating giving Alba your vote ever since, and even before then when Sturgeon introduced the HCB and the GRA I wrote comments that Alba were the real party of indy.
If you’ve the time and inclination look back and see.
“you probably have me confused with the moonhowlers”
Nope it wasn’t Chas either that made the comment.
Indyfada!
Yeah, that’s a great aspiration for the early days of a better nation, conjuring the ghost of the Palestinian authority.
I mean, there’s delusional, then there’s Hatuey’s dystopian plans for the new tartan Hezbollah. Truly, it is to laugh…
“Most folk in Alba I know take a dim view of the views of folk like Republicofscotland who shill for Vlad and his nice bunch of lads”
Ha, as opposed to the other mob, they are angels, next to that lot anyway, the betrayer really f*cked up today with a tweet that she hastily deleted but the damage was done, the mask slipped and the ugly face of Nato was exposed for all to see.
There you go again speaking for the people of Alba now?
A question for our budding expert on all matters international.
Did the country, who shall remain nameless, have an international agreement?
Was that international agreement agreed by all parties?
Did one of them meddle & collude to deliberately break that agreement once they left the room?
Do they get to cry foul when it’s backfired?
I think if you have an international agreement you stick to it. If you find out you’re not happy later you call another sit down to discuss it. You don’t deliberately set out to antagonise & then get all uppity when you get a response.
RepublicofScotland
Who was that & what about?
“A SERIES of national assemblies is being held by the SNP to allow party members to have their say on the independence papers, which look set to be published into summer next year.”
Should read carefully crafted and staged managed event will be held, you can give your views (via hand picked questions) we’ll then file them under you’ve had your say, and we’ve given what appears to be a a democratic process, and we’ll do it our way.
Oh and we’ll charge you £6 quid just to attend, of course they’ll be no indyref next year so its all a bit irrelevant, unless of course you want to play this game out knowing how it ends.
link to 12ft.io
Palestine has their lands stolen by a larger neighbour who has no right to be there.
Don’t tell me he supports an occupation too?
Think this little incident confirms what most of us have suspected for a while, but have been willing (more fool us) to give the benefit of the doubt, and that’s “Republic Of Scotland” is just a troll looking for bites who will chop and change his/her/its stance according.
It will be “Nicola is always right” next week.
Geri @8.45pm.
Geri can’t really go into it, the Rev has banned all chat on the subject.
But here’s two links that you can look at, but I wouldn’t advise commenting on it, as many words are sanctioned in here on the subject and you could get banned so just read them.
link to 12ft.io
link to twitter.com
Me @ 8.23 pm: “Most folk in Alba I know…”
Some zoomer @ 8.42 pm: ” There you go again speaking for the people of Alba now?”
Is it reading. comprehension issues with these straw manning nutters, or just flat out intellectual dishonesty?
Alert readers with a functioning moral compass will be able to figure it out…
“THE SNP have published their application to intervene in the Lord Advocate’s reference of the Referendum Bill to the Supreme Court.
In a 15-page submission to the court, lawyers Claire Mitchell QC and David Welsh argue that it would “fair, just and reasonable” to allow the SNP to intervene in the case.”
Oh look gullible Scots we know you know that our Lord Advocates in a craven coward and we know that you know referring it to the UKSC was the only real way to further hinder an indyref, as we do have the competence to judge for ourselves at the Court of Session (as in Joanna Cherry’s case against the UK government) but look now we are doing something very insignificant that will change nothing, so laud us and applaud us for this you suckers.
link to 12ft.io
Whit a cheek to ask the membership for more money to take part. Send them all a bloody email to give feedback or host the form on the SNPs website.
What a farce. Another promise broken. People were promised a route map & the economic case sent to *every household in Scotland*
& she paid zero attention to the assemblies re Wilson’s turbo austerity & keep the £1 crap. ‘Thanks for your feedback folks but *I’ve* decided, after you’ve all travelled miles & paid entry fees, that you’re all wrong’
Whatever happened to Joanna Cherry’s assemblies too?
Actually, NATO-boy, the intifada was as much in defiance of the Palestinian Authority as anyone else. You should know that but I’ve noticed you’re actually very weak on detail, even on the subjects you shout about.
That’s actually one of the reasons I dumped you, btw… I still think you’re moderately entertaining on a certain level, but, to be fair, you’re a bit of an intellectual lightweight.
Just saying…
Ooh, some progress there.
Even more alert readers may in the future look forward to reading posts containing: “Most folk in the Indy movement that I know support this view, but I haven’t a fucking clue what the ones I don’t know think.“
I have read the Ernst and Young report on the establishment of a Public Energy Company. A few challengeable assumptions through cross reference with other research. However the main conclusion of the establishment of a Public Energy Company has strong validity. We need the original FOI to push for the business case report. How can it be in the middle of an energy crisis that is it not in the Public Interest?. I feel a referral to the ICO is in order. Very difficult to navigate the Scot Gov FOI system, deliberately so I feel. People are going to struggle this winter. Transparency has never been more important. A former Hearts player now a pundit for BBC Sport knew the value of collective buying power and that was in small communities. The buying power of 2 million gas users and 2.4 million electricity users lost on the Scot Gov. And I know it’s difficult to comprehend the migitation and mechanism systems to manage risk but a lost opportunity for Nicola. Her legacy is a Baby Box leader. Totally pissed off at the lives that will be lost this winter.
@Hatuey
If you honestly think the intifada was as much in defiance of the Palestinian Authority, I think we can dispense with any idea that you have a handle on detail, or that you’re in a position to question my grasp of detail.
You appear to blow in the wind, and change your views as easily as most folk change shirts. Probably just as well given the content mind….
The link to the SNP’s application to intervene in the SC case is on their website:
link to s3-eu-west-2.amazonaws.com
The desperation of Sturgeon is plain to see. Her sole objective now is to have what she can call a referendum – at any cost. It doesn’t matter that it would have no legal effect. It doesn’t even matter that there is no chance chance it would result in a majority in favour of independence.
It doesn’t matter that an election is not and cannot be a referendum, and that it would be doomed to the same fate but with worse consequences than a proper referendum.
All that matters to her is that she can stand there and say ‘you had your referendum like I promised. I never promised what the result would be. Hasta la vista, baby’
What? So no feckin’ Ziti now?!! LOL!
So much for her gold standard bullshit.
Its official. We can all go home now. What a t
Roaster to say the result wouldn’t need to be implemented.
lucy worsley on bbc4 right now
It won’t matter how many English folk turn out for this and future events, Christ a million marched to stop the illegal invasion of Iraq and it meant nothing to the Westminster government of the day.
The current Westminster government cannot afford to let the cash cow (Scotland) leave the union.
link to 12ft.io
Gotta play this tonight, for John Swinney, whom I have met, in the past, at various SNP events in meh hame toon.
He’s really let the pro-indy side down. This was recorded just round the corner from whaur eh bide, doon the toon.
link to youtube.com
As I said, weak on detail: “The Palestinian people fiercely resisted the occupation and Palestinian factions chose armed resistance, while the Palestinian authority saw negotiations as the appropriate way to solve the conflict…”
That’s from AlJazeera btw.
The Palestinian authority had its soldiers out on the street at the time, circa September/October 2000, under orders to suppress the intifada. From memory I believe there was a couple of instances where they actually fired on Palestinian protestors.
Just last year the Palestinian authority was urging Israel to cut electricity to Gaza. I provided a link on this website.
None of this would surprise anyone that had put a half-reasonable amount of time into researching the subject.
“THERE must be “urgent action” to end a discrepancy in a UK Government scheme which leaves northern Scots with higher energy bills than the rest of the country, the SNP have said.
A recent report revealed a “distortion” in the Hydro Benefit Replacement Scheme (HBRS), resulting in more expensive bills for those living in northern Scotland.”
This is comedy gold from the one time indy party, the failed OurPower company by the SNP, the great ScotWind giveaway and lies of setting up a nationalised energy firm to give Scots a wee bit cheaper energy, all false promises from the now unionist party.
The betrayer and her gutless and spineless SNP MPs and MSPs have made outlandish promises to keep gullible Scots on the hook, to keep them voting and donating to the party, and even when some of the donators wake up and see that their 600k is well, missing the lies still continue, and the carrots keep a dangling.
If you want to keep on getting taken for a mug then vote SNP, if not, then vote for the Alba party, the real party for Scottish independence.
link to 12ft.io
Any fellow moon-howlers watching the Alex Jones court case?
It raises some interesting philosophical issues.
Turns out his company has been raking in about 150 million dollars per year… all that from selling crap like seeds and vitamins.
As understand it, the judge has already decided that he is guilty of defamation, before the trial had even started, all by herself, and the court case is simply about how much he will have to cough up. I believe he has 3 more cases like this ahead…
a wee one before bed – that lucy worsley program was about Queen Anne – get it on the iplayer
– the middle part of it covers the Act of Union, and she does it in a quite straightforward and matter of fact manner – it was corrupt, a con job, a ripoff, travesty of an etc etc …
you have to watch out for these little “admittances of truth” from the biggest liars on earth – but you need to get it “en passant” (the prog was about Queen Annes reputation) and its on BBC4, which only I seem to watch
and in a funny way, when you delve into things, you could say our troubles, the union – was all about Anne’s fanny. We got dobbed in it, ultimately, by a fat lesbian … as now we await to be FREED from it all by another … fat lesbian. Ha.
History is cyclical and full of jokes. If we delve deeper we can trace the catastrophe back to Henry 8s dodgy todger without which England never goes Proddy, and the whole of history changes.
In another example – John Churchill, the Duke of Marlborough who got Blenheim for beating the French, really in a sense strongly helps to kick off the empire; and at the other end, the lesser seed of stronger sires, with a syphilitic dad and a hoor of a mother – Winston – actually destroys the empire yet gets called the greatest living briton.
– you have to laugh.
Well , well delays to the Tory leadership election due to security service suspicions of possible “ ballot hacking” by unknowns attempting to influence the postal ballot by apparently attempting to change the vote on individual ballot papers .
Now , I don’t recall any suspicions on behalf of the UK security services as regards a certain referendum result in 2014
None of this would surprise anyone that had put a half-reasonable amount of time into researching the subject.
Nor would the fact that the term intifada was and is used to describe a wide range of uprisings in many Arabic countries, starting with the early uprising in Iraq in the 1950’s. Even in the Palestinian context, most will concentrate on the first and second intifadas directed against Israel.
None of the above of course addresses the original point that comparing the Scottish independence struggle – even in a lame attempt to be funny or edgy like yours – with the struggles of the Palestinian people is beyond lame.
Little better can be expected of the kind of fringe nutters who paint our situation as de-colonisation.
I think the idea anyone considers you and the nativist claque in here even half-reasonable can be safely dismissed.
A link would have been good in the last four posts.
Any fellow moon-howlers watching the Alex Jones court case?
I’m sure most of the moonhowlers are rooting for Alex Jones. Given their MO on other issues they probably agree with him.
Jones has of course already been found liable in courts in both Texas where his conspiracy theorising media company is based, and in Connecticut. He’s already offered to pay each plaintiff $120,000, after claiming the school shooting was a hoax, the aggrieved parents were liars, and the students were paid actors employed by the Democratic party to push gun control measures.
I see Jones is also claiming the judge and legal team he’s facing “demonically posessed”.
I wonder what philosphical issue is raised by someone being found guilty of defamation?
Did someone not ask the same question earlier that is being asked in the post above?
Links definitely needed.
Might be time to define who & what is meant by ‘Moonhowlers’ for all new readers.
The Urban dictionary states:
Moonhowler
A very specific type of Glasgow Celtic supporter, they are extremely paranoid about anti Celtic bias and are known to spout extremely convoluted conspiracy theories, much to the amusement of the rest of Scottish football. The term refers to a wolfs despairing howl that goes unanswered, much like this area of the Celtic supports complaints. Not all Celtic supporters are moonhowlers but they are a very vocal group of supporters that give the club a bad name.
“Do you see that!? The referee should have gave Celtic a penalty! Another Rangers supporting referee!!”
“It looked soft mate, if all the referees support Rangers then how did Celtic win 9 league titles in a row?”
“We won them despite the biased the referee’s, we were too good to be cheated”
“You’re starting to sound like a moonhowler John”
Another definition of Moonhowler
Scotland’s shame
Derogatory term for Glasgow Rangers F.C.supporters, due to their penchant for rioting and generally sullying the name of Scottish football supporters.
“Did you see Scotland’s shame on tv last night rioting in Manchester?
by Moonhowler January 11, 2015
Definitely time for posters on Wings to make it clear if they are referring to Rangers or Celtic supporters.
I have to keep reminding myself of this warning.
Rev. Stuart Campbell says:
6 July, 2022 at 12:48 pm
Andy Ellis, Ruby: if either of you ever mentions the other by name (including any “clever” ways of doing so indirectly) again in any context whatsoever you’re banned. Clear? Not comment deleted, not pre-moderation, banned.
I have HAD ENOUGH of this fucking playground shit.
I’d better go before I forget.
PS. Where’s Scott?
“THE tragedy of Sri Lanka is not only the horrors that have unfolded but that they were wholly avoidable. Years of mismanagement and corruption at the highest level enabled by its leadership, and now a cost of living crisis which is destroying the lives of millions. Almost sounds familiar.”
Says Daddy Bear Alyn Smith who goes by the ludicrous title of Shadow Minster for Foreign Affairs, a sign of just how embedded the SNP MPs are at Westminster, they’ll never leave the HoC they’ll need to be dragged out kicking and screaming along the way, especially Wishart.
Anyway the keywords here are mismanagement and corruption, ring any bells?
link to 12ft.io
@Republicofscotland (9.35) –
‘…they’ll never leave the HoC they’ll need to be dragged out kicking and screaming along the way, especially Wishart.’
“We will not be forced out of this place against our will!”
😉
“SCOTLAND has a choice to make between settling for a state of “relative dependence and helplessness” within the UK or shaping its own future with independence, according to a new analysis.
Leading economic experts say the key to creating a prosperous and thriving society is individuals having “agency” – which includes believing they have control over decisions in their life and optimism for the future.
They warn Scotland is currently closer to the opposite, which is described as a state of “helplessness”.
However the paper says independence could help to “rapidly” move Scotland from a state of “helplessness” to a society of “agency”.”
Worth a read, we know which party is keeping Scotland in a state of helplessness and its not the English Tory party that’s in government down South, here’s a clue its headed up by a turncoat who deletes inappropriate tweets, she can be seen sitting next to a lamp on a sofa in an identical pose of that of Margaret Thatcher, and whilst Scotland circles the plughole she babbles on about reading books, she’s also a huge fan of Hillary Clinton, and her favourite comments are, “I don’t recall” Not to the best of my knowledge” “I don’t know” and “I wasn’t aware of that.” Oh and she has an endless supply of carrots.
link to 12ft.io
“We will not be forced out of this place against our will!”
Yes Ian spot on, I have great admiration for Julian Assange, but picture his extraction from the Ecuadorian embassy, by the English security services and that’s what it will take to get those spineless and gutless SNP MPs out of the HoC.
Giving this a bump from the previous thread.
Roger says:
1 August, 2022 at 12:26 am
‘The British and Irish Governments declare that it is their join understanding that the term “the people of Northern Ireland” in paragraph (vi) of Article One of this Agreement means, for the purpose of giving effect to this provision [a referendum on unity], all persons born in Northern Ireland and having, at the time of their birth, at least one parent who is a British citizen, an Irish citizen or is otherwise entitled to reside in Northern Ireland without any restriction on their period of residence’
—
Franchise precedent for the also still hypothetical one day, between 0700 & 2200, when we’re asked about our nation’s status in relation to the union.
Hatuey re Jones trail.
I haven’t been watching it but I did watch the Depp trial where the lawyers on commentary explained why litigation trials are different from other trials. Litigation is about proving defamation took place, what loss of earnings, what the intent behind the defamation was & the jury is selected to award whose side they believe & award costs or not.
The judge is already aware of all the facts.
I’d believe has was earning hundreds of thousands of $$ through YouTube. Not seeds & vitamins. Those channels rake it in through ads & sponsoring deals & why most of the *content creators* start suing the hell out of each other for defamation if another content creator dares speak their name on their channel.
Franchise precedent for the also still hypothetical one day, between 0700 & 2200, when we’re asked about our nation’s status in relation to the union.
The text of Annex 2 quoted above has been taken by some to refer to the franchise to be used in a future unity referendum, it has also been argued (in my view convincingly) that the provision defining “the people of Northern Ireland” in Annex 2 refers to the criteria that should be used to determine citizenship, not the franchise.
There are a number of reasons supporting this view:
1) The text of Annex 2 explicitly provides that it applies to para. vi of Article 1 of the Agreement relating to citizenship. By ordinary canons of interpretation legally it does not therefore relate to the other sub-paragraphs (i, ii & iv) which deal with unification.
2) Annex 2 itself states it is a “Declaration on the Provisions of Para (vi) of Article 1 in Relationship to Citizenship”. It therefore relates explicitly (and ONLY) to citizenship, not to the franchise.
3) If Annex 2 were held to relate to the franchise rather than citizenship, it would disenfranchise people who were able to vote in the 1998 referendum on the original Good Friday Agreement. It is clear the purpose of Annex 2 was and is to prevent any arguments that either the Irish or British governments would be obliged to extend their citizenship to people in Northern Ireland than they already had: e.g by preventing UK residents in Northern Ireland who don’t meet the citizenship criteria in Annex 2 claiming Irish citizenship merely by dint of living there.
4) Lastly, the Northern Ireland Act, in accordance with the Agreement, provides that it is for the Secretary of State to specify the franchise in any order calling a referendum. There is nothing in the Act which says it has to be done in line with para (vi) of Article 1 of the Agreement.
There is therefore no existing legal provision specifying what the franchise for a unification referendum in NI should be.
(See articles by McCrudden, Doyle and Kenny in the Irish Studies in International Affairs, vol 32, no. 2, 2021 pp 183 – 213, and the Final Report of the Working Group on Unification Referendums on the Island of Ireland, May 2021 published by the UCL Constitution Unit, particularly section 12 “The Referendum Franchise” pp. 201 – 211).
Sadly for proponents of nativism, both analyses suggest a Venice convention informed presumption AGAINST departing from the existing franchise used for NI Assembly Elections, namely residence based not birth or ethnicity based.
By the way Scott: since you’re a proponent of limiting the franchise only to those born in Scotland, shall I ask Tasmina Ahmed Sheik at the upcoming Edinburgh Alba event if she’d object to being disenfranchised because she was born in London?
….shriller and shriller….
The claim of right defines who has the right to use it Scots, it does not mention, Remano brits,
Further definition is the treaty of union mentions the Scots as being the otherhalf/ side of the treaty of the union, with England. Not Remanno brits.
If you do not wish to accept the dodgy concept of the treaty of the union with the Scots, thats fine by me,
Because the MAJORITY of Scots did not vote to join the Treaty of the Union.
And secondly the Scottish Parliament was disbanded before the treaty was signed.
In fact those implying it is not valid, that it no longer holds as, important in our modern day.
I would go further in agreeing with you, it did not hold importance then either, it was a hoax fairy tale treaty between some private citizens in Scotland and the english parliament.
Those that say the treaty from 300 years ago is not important, I tend to agree with you.
Thirdly Those that say the 1707 treaty of the union does hold out in our modern day ,
In 1708 that treaty of union was broke by the British parliament when they bought in the new Treason Act.
“The treaty of the union was broke less one year after its conception.”
Again I tend to agree with those that say the treaty of the union is obsolete and not in use, or useful today.
NATO-boy, every time Scott intervenes on this franchise issue, he makes you look silly. This latest intervention is another good example.
You should be embarrassed to stoop so desperately low on this when it is clear that the issue of citizenship is so central to the franchise, specifically in the Irish sample given but also generally and elsewhere.
You’re treating this forum with contempt with these waffling comments which are clearly designed to fudge the issue; that they may do but they do not serve that same purpose in relation to your collapsing reputation here.
Give in, man, and learn to know when you are beaten.
When quite a few here tell us not to bother with that 300 year old treaty of union,
It does make a body wonder why they are thinking along those lines
So now having researched their reasoning I can see why they do not wish it to be scrutinised to deeply.
It was quite a surprise for me to discover there was no Scottish parliament Acting in a legal capacity in 1707 as the Scots had disbanded it in the time period before and after the treaty was signed.
Geri, infowars was kicked off YouTube and most other major social platforms about 5 years ago. Most of his revenue derives from his subsidiary “infowars store” and, as explained, turnover of around 150 to 175 million dollars per annum is largely explained by selling vitamins and other supplements.
The judge has decided Jones is guilty though, that there’s no need to determine his guilt or innocence in court. The Depp trial was different in that regard.
In the background, all of Alex Jones’ companies have filed for bankruptcy.
Scots still hold on to their sovereignty with or without the treaty of the union,
If the treaty of union is to hold water today according to Westminsters position and the Supreme court down south the Right to self determination, comes entangled with the Claim of Right written and ratified by the English parliament agreement, This would include the Scottish parliament Sine Die, ( Salvo) position.
However from the other perspective, IF the Scottish Parliament was disbanded by the Scots in 1707 before the treaty of the union was signed as historical records suggest,
The Sovereignty of Scots was retained and was used to disband the Scottish parliament, the Scots had said a big NO in 1707 to the Scottish Parliament as representatives of Scots and Scotland, made a clear choice under self determination and the Claim of Right of whom was [ not ] going to govern them or take them into a treaty in 1707.
Thus we see in 1706/07 the English parliament discussing wether to ask the MAJORITY of Sovereign Scots to vote on joining the treaty of the union, by implication providing us with information that Englands Parliament did not view the the Scottish parliament as legal holders of Scots Sovereignty.
In making the decision NOT to give that vote to Sovereign Scots, the English parliament forfeited the right to Claim it had made a treaty of union with the Scots.
Either way the Sovereignty of the Scots has been retained under their claim of right and self determination.
For those that have no believe or faith in looking at a 300 year old treaty as valid today is perhaps that before the treaty was signed the Scots held they had a Claim of right from their perspective, and were sovereign above monarch and government.
However After the the treaty of the union was signed and ratified the English parliament also recognised the Scots were Sovereign within and above the new Britain, and above monarch and government with the “Claim of Right ” wrote into the treaty of the union.
Either way the Now British parliament and government, plus supreme court find themselves between a rock and a hard place.
They have to acknowledge a treaty that is upheld in its originality as to the Sovereignty of Scots above parliament and monarch,
Or they have to state they have altered and changed the terms of the original treaty beyond what was agreed in 1707,
Breaking the treaty of the union,
Both scenarios would need serious compensation to the Scots.
I’ve said before the treaty claims no country or region will have a trading advantage over the other. Englands colony in Ireland got their wish to remain inside the worlds largest trading market and their economy is booming in comparison to the mainland.
Westminster wants them out to stop this embarrassment of their fantasy Brexit and stop this clause equal partners trading rule from being highlighted.
How about a vote in Holyrood to say we are off due to them breaking the act of the Union.
Will any international courts say their isn’t a trading benefit in Ireland?
Like the Tory Brexit threat. We get a good divorce settlement or we pay nothing.
Debt free Scotland would be joyful in the EU.
NATO-boy, every time Scott intervenes on this franchise issue, he makes you look silly. This latest intervention is another good example.
That’s a doozy even by your (admittedly fairly low) standards! It’d almost be funny if it weren’t so delusional. Scott’s only appreciable talent on here seems to be acting as a creepy as fuck stalker with a strange obsession with me and latterly my family members. You know folk by the company they keep I suppose?
You should be embarrassed to stoop so desperately low on this when it is clear that the issue of citizenship is so central to the franchise, specifically in the Irish sample given but also generally and elsewhere.
I’m simply responding to Scott’s ill advised and badly researched intervention on the matter. He was the one who reposted the piece about a future Irish unification referendum, trying – and spectacularly failing – to bolster what passes for his argument that citizenship is central to the franchise. In fact, the detailed analysis shows that the supposed supporting quote from Annex 2 doesn’t say what he and others think. Granted in his case attributing much thought to his contributions may be something of a stretch.
You’re treating this forum with contempt with these waffling comments which are clearly designed to fudge the issue; that they may do but they do not serve that same purpose in relation to your collapsing reputation here.
Treating certain contributors in here with the measure of contempt their input merits isn’t the same thing as treating this place with contempt. My comment in response to Scott’s was clear, referring in detail to the matter and pointing to detailed reports and analysis of the issue. No reasonable person could find it waffling or designed to fudge the issue. It certainly destroyed Scott’s contention or any attempt to assert that it supported the nativists case.
The idea that you or the unsavoury wee cabal of moonhowling compadres BTL here think they are qualified to pontificate on my reputation is as laughable as your attempts to deny the deeply regressive and populist nature of your nativism.
Scott just had his arse handed to him. It’s a feeling he should be getting familiar with.
Anyone else reminded of that Harry Enfield character from years ago, Mr Don’t-Wanna-Do-That?
link to youtube.com
Rishi Sunak’s PM candidacy propaganda could see most of us in here, except the usual suspects that we all know, end up in the sights of the Ministry of Truth.
“THOSE who “vilify” Britain face being treated as extremists and referred for deradicalisation under new plans from Tory leadership hopeful Rishi Sunak.
The former chancellor intends to change the definition of extremism to allow people with an “extreme hatred of Britain” to be put through the Prevent programme.”
Both Sunak and Truss are attempting to play to the right of the Tories to try and appease them and thus find favour within the party’s faithful. Its Room 101 for the rest of us.
link to 12ft.io
“Sadly for proponents of nativism, both analyses suggest a Venice convention informed presumption AGAINST departing from the existing franchise used for NI Assembly Elections, namely residence based not birth or ethnicity based.”
Still peddling that shit, its an advisory body, you haven’t posted your link to the two Spanish professors for a while, y’know the one where you attempted to pass off their white papers as mandatory when they were just opinions.
talk about bullshitters.
The Margaret Thatcher wannabe (Lizz Truss) backtracks on comments made about the, well, Margaret Thatcher wannabe (Nicola Sturgeon)
Of course Truss like Sunak, is playing for the Tory gallery right now trying to win votes by appearing tough on all things Scottish which the right of the Tory party loves.
“LIZ Truss has backtracked on her comments about ignoring Nicola Sturgeon to make clear she would be prepared to work with Nicola Sturgeon on some issues.
The Tory leadership frontrunner’s allies yesterday doubled down on remarks she made on Monday night when she branded the First Minister an ‘attention seeker’ and pledged to ignore her.
Jacob Rees-Mogg, one of Ms Truss’s highest profile supporters, accused the First Minister of ‘always moaning’ and ‘waffling on endlessly’ about another independence referendum.
But her intervention divided Scottish Tories with some of her supporters among Conservative MSPs rushing to clarify them yesterday.”
link to 12ft.io
Interestingly I just had a friend request and DM on Facebook from a former contributor on here, now banned apparently, who tells me he’s been following discussions BTL on the “nativist fantasy franchise”. Apparently he’s already asked Alex Salmond what he thought about the proposal: Alex Salmond’s response was to guffaw.
Doubtless the nativist loyal will be along directly to tell us that, like Rev Stu, Alex is just one man and entitled to his opinion. Nothing to see here, no sirree… Move along now…. 🙂
“Interestingly I just had a friend request and DM on Facebook from a former contributor on here, now banned apparently, who tells me he’s been following discussions BTL on the “nativist fantasy franchise”. Apparently he’s already asked Alex Salmond what he thought about the proposal: Alex Salmond’s response was to guffaw.”
I’m stunned by that, absolutely stunned, you have a friend, well I never.
I’m stunned by that, absolutely stunned, you have a friend, well I never.
I can well believe you never had friends. We’ll, at least ones you didn’t have to pay by the hour.
For those who don’t do Twitter, the response to Sturgeon’s ‘Burns’ retweet has, if anything, eclipsed the outrage generated by Truss’s ‘attention-seeker’ quip.
Nicola’s getting the attention right enough, but not the kind she would prefer, and this one is going to stick. If she – or her Twitterer-at-hand – thought that emulating Hillary Clinton and her ‘we came, we saw, he died’ type of gallus shitery was going to go down well, they were very wrong.
Another result for Sturgeon the betrayer her decisions on putting others before Scots will hurt many poor families and rob Scotland of assets and much needed income.
You must never vote SNP again in my opinion they are a party of the union now, Alba look like they are the last indy party with Scottish interests at heart.
“The Great Berwick Bank Robbery is seen in the fact that the connection to Blyth in Northumberland will take 40% of the energy produced in Scotland and from Scottish natural resources piped directly south without landing in Scotland. Scotland’s energy is being siphoned south without any revenue accruing to Scotland or jobs and economic windfall arising from its landing. That bounty off our shores, not just in Berwick Bank but across Scotland, should be a source of affordable energy for Scots, powering homes and businesses across the country but instead we see over half of Scots households facing fuel poverty this winter as average annual energy bills are set to top £3,000.”
link to grousebeater.wordpress.com
Ian @3.31pm.
Yeah the betrayer has opened a can of worms for herself such as this doing the rounds on social media.
link to pbs.twimg.com
@ROS –
Wooft, that’s a stinger.
She’s no-one to blame but herself.
Effigy,
If we are in the treaty of union at all? Which I doubt.
Then I am all for your second proposal. For the list is as long as anyones arm the amount of times the treaty has been broken since 1707.
@ Ian B
Aye here’s another.
link to twitter.com
And she/ her’s remixes of nursery rhymes ain’t much better…
Sing a song of 600k
Wi’ an audit trail denied
Reams o’ collected mandates
Aw obtained on a lie…
Ros.
Ian Brotherhood.
Thats a like and share.
Ns/ snp forget that in Scotland even after a vote in an election she nor they are are not Sovereigns over the Scots whom have an option to change their government without going to the Supreme court. Or to the Lord Advocate, as neitheir is is Sovereign in the Scottish Constitution.
As the Great Satan (US) attempts to steal Afghanistan’s gold reserves and supposedly dish them out to victims families of 9/11, no Afghan pilots were involved in 9/11.
The UK which is a bastion of democracy (says I tongue in cheek) is attempting to do the same with Venezuelan gold held in England. Venezuela’s current president Nicolas Maduro was democratically elected by the people of the country, a socialist country that the Great Satan and the UK are hellbent on undermining to steal its assets.
“Britain’s High Court has denied the Venezuelan government’s access to its nearly $2 billion worth of gold reserves held in the Bank of England, ruling in favor of the country’s US-sponsored opposition figure Juan Guaidó.”
“After a four-day trial, the court ruled on Friday that the British government recognizes Guaidó as Venezuela’s interim president, despite his eroding support even among the opposition.”
Why would anyone believe an anonymous poster who has been
banned from Wings?
It’s hard enough trying to believe some of the made up shit that is posted here by non banned posters.
Could this banned poster be Mist? I’ve spotted him posting on Craig Murray’s blog.
Still no definition of ‘Moonhowlers’ or ‘The Bonny Purple Heather Brigade’.
If you do a search on Google for ‘The Bonny Purple Heather Brigade’
right up there at the top of the results is a link to a post by Chas.
‘The Purple Heather Brigade’ must just be something Chas has made up. Unfortunately he is not willing to say who or what the ‘The Bonny Purple Heather Brigade’ actually is.
link to youtube.com
Take way the uniform and you have a mechanic, a bus driver, a scientist,a nurse, a teacher,a son, a daughter, a father, a mother,a sister, a brother, a survivor, a casualty, a victim, a statitic.
#The Bairns of Adam
Just Go FM,Get Out, Get Out Now
Andy Ellis says:
3 August, 2022 at 3:30 pm
“I’m stunned by that, absolutely stunned, you have a friend, well I never.”
I can well believe you never had friends. We’ll, at least ones you didn’t have to pay by the hour.
😀
link to 12ft.io
Are you worried that you might be put through the Prevent programme?
Mark Boyle says:
3 August, 2022 at 5:00 pm
Andy Ellis says:
3 August, 2022 at 3:30 pm
“I’m stunned by that, absolutely stunned, you have a friend, well I never.”
I can well believe you never had friends. We’ll, at least ones you didn’t have to pay by the hour.
WTF? Who is it that has no friends?
Is ‘friends’ a euphemism for sexual partner?
I’ve never heard of anyone paying for ‘friends’ by the hour.
Can you give some examples?
I think she’s been on the verge of madness & a breakdown for a while now, probably the stress of trying to keep up with all the lies she’s told since her stitch up plot.
She needs to go now. That tweet was an epic fail & not her first either – remember her no fly zone shoot to kill shit too?
Top tip, when hoping for international recognition promoting an independent peace-keeping nation to join the world stage & you have nukes sitting on the Clyde – know when to shut the fuck up & not glorify in the casualties of conflict.
I can’t help but make the TRAs connection here too. They’re also rabid Russia phobes.
Ellis says
By the way Scott: since you’re a proponent of limiting the franchise only to those born in Scotland, shall I ask Tasmina Ahmed Sheik at the upcoming Edinburgh Alba event if she’d object to being disenfranchised because she was born in London?
—
Please do, but if you’re quoting me, you can present the basis of my position to her…
Code of Conduct on Referendums, adopted by the European Council, explicitly states that a franchise for a people-led referendum can be based on the birth, deaths & marriage register
and
Belfast Agreement defines a person with a birthright in one constituent part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland as someone born in that constituent part – Ireland, USA, EU concur
and
Referendums (Scotland) Act 2020 received Royal Assent 29th January 2020 (Great Seal of Scotland version) and sets out the rules for all referendums in Scotland
and
Scottish Ministers can already alter the ‘local election register’ to exclude/include for specific purposes relating to the poll in question
and
The people of Scotland can already petition the monarch to seek the holding of a referendum, sans S30 ordure
and
a petition for a referendum is valid in local authority areas of England if 5% of the electorate sign it and also becomes self-executing on doing so
and
The monarch cannot ignore the expressed will of the people of Scotland, except under limited exceptional circumstances
and
The Court of Session will ultimately decide points of law relating to the franchise in a self-determination referendum held in Scotland, guided by domestic and international law, with the nobile officium having the power to issue any binding order to remedy a situation for the evident utility of the people of Scotland
and
0700-2200
*Try it out on your wife first, as a dummy run*
@”Scott”
I don’t reckon she’d be able to make any more of that gibberish than anyone else will be able to.
Answer the question: if, as you’ve previously advocated, only those born in Scotland should be entitled to vote in a referendum, is Tasmina going to be allowed a vote or not? At least have the courage to own your regressive views rather than try to cover them up with rambling diversion.
I see you haven’t grasped the information from up thread about the misrepresentation of the position on the Irish unification referendum. It’s because you haven’t read the information and wouldn’t understand it if you did.
If only those born in Scotland are allowed to vote then those not born in Scotland will not be allowed to vote.
Exactly!
The question that should be asked on this thread is
‘Who will be allowed to campaign?’
First they appropriated our oil and gas, then Sturgeon gave them carte blanche on our wind and water technologies (The great Scotwind giveaway).
Going by the news, South of the border and the prolong periods of rain free weather, it won’t be that long until our fresh water starts to be piped South of the border as well.
link to 12ft.io
In the event of independence supporters being classed as having ‘an extreme hatred of Britain’ would anyone be allowed to campaign for the independence.
Surely the desire to ‘break up Britain’ would be seen as ‘extreme hatred of Britain’
Still peddling that shit, its an advisory body, you haven’t posted your link to the two Spanish professors for a while, y’know the one where you attempted to pass off their white papers as mandatory when they were just opinions.
Nativists still doing that thing they do I see….making shit up again, stating things as fact that people never said. I’ve NEVER the analysis in either the paper by the professors from the University of Gerona on franchises, or the recent stuff above about a possible future Irish unification referendum, was “mandatory”, that’s just utter bullshit. Of COURSE they’re opinions, just like there are varying opinions about whether a Scottish indyref is “valid” or “legal” without a S30 order.
What’s important is which of the opposing views is most likely to prevail, based on the available evidence, and the weight of that evidence, the research behind it, and who it comes from.
The Irish examples I gave – particularly the > 200 page Report from the UCL Working Group – totally blows apart Scott’s amateur hour effort to show the franchise for an Irish unification would use a nativist franchise. In response, what do we get from the nativists and their hapless fluffers like Scott…? *tumbleweed*
It’s about as convincing and has the same level of academic rigour and respectability as James Che’s hot takes on the Treaties of Union.
“The applicant regards it of fundamental importance to these proceedings that it be recognised that the holding of a referendum, such as that which is being proposed, does not of itself implement the result or the outcome of that referendum.”
Translation:
“Please, pretty please, Supreme Court, can we as the democratically elected government of Scotland have your permission to hold a referendum? We promise to kowtow to English law at all times, be good little Unionists, and not rock the gravy train. We’d hate to have to give up our limousines! It would only be a pretendy referendum, after all. We have no intention of putting an end to the Union and delivering independence as per our multiple mandates. We only want to make it look like we are doing something so that we can continue to string the people along. It’s worked a treat thus far, hasn’t it? We need to keep up the pretence so those gullible plebs in their ardent desire for independence keep voting for us. Just long enough, mind, so that we can change the law to allow anyone with a dick who says they are a woman access to women and children’s safe places. We can assure you that turning Scotland into a perverts’ paradise and moral dystopia poses no threat to the Union whatsoever. And with the coming economic cataclysm as Scotland is dragged down into the abyss by England since we have done nothing to prevent it – we are better off together after all – the people will become so submerged in their poverty and misery that their apathy will be complete. So trust us when we say the Union is safe in our hands.”
@ RoS at 7.25pm
And they’ll no doubt use Scottish generated electricity to power those water pumps…
Suggested new edition to the periodic table of elements.
Scotlandium – A substance found in the brains of the indigenous people of Scotland, making their brains immensely more dense than humans that reside elsewhere on the planet, ultimately rendering the denizens of Scotland to be incredibly thick as fuck and prepared to live their entire lives under governments implementing policies that they didn’t vote for.
Just an observation of the Russophobic tweet from Nicola Sturgeon.
It seems strange that her and her party are fuming at the mouths about the Tories yet also wallow in the Anti-Russian vitriol of the Daily Mail.
As Scotland take their 5th Gold of the current tournament i see the BBC in Scotland text service, and not before time, has stopped giving English & Welsh achievements within the same article as Scottish achievements.
What were the twats trying to achieve? Presenting a “home nations” type of front to their reporting? Disgusting propaganda. It’s a sporting tournament under the banner of ‘The Commonwealth Games’. There’s 2 whole separate sections on the BBC dedicated to Wales & England you lickspittles.
To promote England, Wales & Scotland, on pages supposedly dedicated to *Scottish* news is blatant rancid propaganda. As if we don’t get swamped with English achievements enough as it is. Mind you, when you see who the BBC employ to run Scottish affairs then we can expect nothing less.
Pft! Even Thomas Schafernaker, when reading out the weather, referred to “our dear friends in the Western Isles”. Pass me the puke pale. Talk about laying it on with a trowel? FFS!
That reminds me, anyone else remember that old saying? “The trouble with the Commonwealth is that the wealth within the Commonwealth is not so common.”
You can be rest assured on one thing regards any future vote on any Irish re-unification referendum is that Sinn Fein and the Irish republic won’t be dictated to by any British state.
Once Sinn Fein have the numbers which they’re just over the line on now party wise slightly now. Add in the moderates and they’ll go for it.
They’ll be no day trippers from Scotland or England , holiday home troughers or anything else getting in their way.
“And they’ll no doubt use Scottish generated electricity to power those water pumps…”
Oh Dan, you really know how to rub salt into an already open wound..ouch!
“Suggested new edition to the periodic table of elements.
Scotlandium”
Sadly your description of said element rings a bell with me, incidentally Strontium is a village in Scotland, as is strontianite.
Should read Strontium and Strontiatnite are named after a village in Scotland.
Saffron Robe@ 7.33
A good translation.
As I said in an earlier post, the desperation of Sturgeon is plain to see. She has never recovered from failing to nail AS and she cannot bear the thought of failing again on her promise to hold another referendum.
Hence the fall back position of trying to call an election a ‘de facto’ referendum. She is paranoid about getting her own way and will not hesitate to sacrifice anything and anyone just so she can stand in front of a camera and boast that she has done (in her own mind) what she said she would.
The only way to stop her is to find a legal way of getting into the public domain all the facts of the AS trial to expose her for what she really is.
“shall I ask Tasmina Ahmed Sheik at the upcoming Edinburgh Alba event if she’d object to being disenfranchised because she was born in London?”
“Answer the question: if, as you’ve previously advocated, only those born in Scotland should be entitled to vote in a referendum, is Tasmina going to be allowed a vote or not? At least have the courage to own your regressive views rather than try to cover them up with rambling diversion.”
“I see you haven’t grasped the information from up thread about the misrepresentation of the position on the Irish unification referendum. It’s because you haven’t read the information and wouldn’t understand it if you did.”
Ellis
—-
If she’s reading this thread, she’ll avoid you like the plague, ya beetroot-faced balloon.
Does Rev Stu owe you money or something?
In my experience anybody who simply resorts to personal abuse has already lost the argument.
If she’s reading this thread, she’ll avoid you like the plague, ya beetroot-faced balloon.
I suppose she might read it. Time will tell on Saturday I suppose “Scott”. Of course, she’s more likely to avoid someone advocating for her to be disenfranchised, particularly if she realises that the person concerned is a creepy as fuck stalker like you: not that you’d ever have the balls to come out with your regressive, natiivist bullshit publicly of course. Same old, same old eh?
No, Stu doesn’t owe me anything. We do know that like me he regards you and other nativists as not being on the same side as him. Strange it triggers so many of you when you’re happy to hi-jack his site to spread your blood and soil bullshit.
“In my experience anybody who simply resorts to personal abuse has already lost the argument.”
You have experience? it certainly doesn’t show.
Chas says:
3 August, 2022 at 8:29 pm
In my experience anybody who simply resorts to personal abuse has already lost the argument.
You wouldn’t be trying to suggest you have never resorted to personal abuse?
‘The Bonnie Purple Heather Brigade’ sounds pretty much like personal abuse. Just scrolling past to remind myself of the names you called me.
Stay tuned.
Just in case Tasmina drops in for a read…
Andy Ellis has also recently said: “Tightening the criteria in ways that excluded temporary residents is a no brainer…“
James Che 2.11
THAT IS A 10 GALLON POST.
The sane and educated will appreciate that 10 gallons is a lot of pish! The BPHB will be so proud of you. Not so much for the rest of us!
Does anyone remember GRA was being secretly forced through Holyrood?
Does anyone remember the results of the *consultation* they had?
Does anyone remember who the participants were & their geographical locations?
Does anyone remember the backlash of who exactly was going to shape Scots law & scotgov policy?
*referring to the first consultation.
The one where Sturgeon & Somerville were handed their arse on a plate & were forced to announce a U-turn via Holyrood.
Sincere apologies Ruby. I never realised you were so sensitive. I appreciate that personal abuse is something you would NEVER resort to.
If you have time, maybe scroll back through your input on this site. At the risk of indulging in playground tactics you will possibly note that you are not so innocent as you try to portray.
You might even acknowledge that, in many cases, you were the instigator.
Have a lovely evening.
Geri says:
3 August, 2022 at 8:51 pm
Does anyone remember GRA was being secretly forced through Holyrood?
What’s that Geri? Does it have anything to do with the franchise?
link to archive.ph
Psychiatrist pleads to shut down Sandyford gender clinic in Glasgow
Nicola Sturgeon seems to indicate that the way to go is to affirm new gender identities. If that is the message from the top of the government I find it hard to see how the Scottish NHS will take a more cautious approach.
Father of a trans teenager in Scotland
Eilish McColgan – well done lassie!
@Dan
You keep bringing that up like a dog returning to its own vomit Dan, but since I’ve freely admitted to saying it, it’s not really the slam dunk you’ve obviously convinced yourself it is. Why you think it’s worth trotting out with such monotonous regularity, I really couldn’t say.
Most reasonable people could be persuaded that incremental changes aimed at – for example – ensuring that the relatively trivial number of students from the rest of the UK would not have a vote, or that owners of second homes were excluded.
Similarly, both Rev Stu (I believe I’m right in saying) and I have said in the past we could even be persuaded that a short residence criteria might be defensible, as there is a precedent for that being used elsewhere. The issue is whether it is either defensible or necessary. Civic nationalists will argue that it is neither, and would represent a sledgehammer to crack a nut. Regressive nativist nationalists will of course lap it up.
Advocating for – or more precisely grudgingly accepting – minor changes to the 2014 style franchise is a million miles away from extremists like “Scott” insisting that only true bloods who were born here should be allowed to vote, or sundry other roasters insisting we impose residence criteria of 20, or 15 or 10 years that have never been used anywhere else.
Whether you’re making these ridiculous false equivalences because you’re intellectually dishonest, or because you can’t see there’s a difference is hard to tell.
And, so, the revolution that they said wouldn’t happen begins….
“Don’t Pay: The Campaign Group Calling On Brits To Stop Paying Energy Bills”
“The big movement that I am seeing is an increase of growth in people calling for a non-payment of energy bills, mass non-payment. Effectively a consumer strike on energy bills and getting rid of the legitimacy of paying that,” he said. “It’s small at the moment, there’s a Twitter handle with about 5,000 followers.
“We are getting close to a Poll Tax moment on energy bills coming into October and we need the Government to get a handle on that, because once it starts becoming socially acceptable not to pay energy bills people will stop paying energy bills and you’re not going to cut everyone off.” (Martin Lewis)
link to huffingtonpost.co.uk
A Scottish twist on the above will be interesting since it’s really our energy they are all fighting over.
Tick tock tick tock
Older article re. GRA, but worth a bump for a read as should be other articles posted on that site soon.
link to gordondangerfield.com
“Republicofscotland says:
3 August, 2022 at 8:14 pm
Should read Strontium and Strontiatnite are named after a village in Scotland.”
.
Jhonn-i-alfha
Ruby.
Yes.
RepublicofScotland
Water is no longer a basic human right – its a commodity.
Bottled & sold & worth a fortune. It has all the main £££ points & Its bought by Joe bloggs everyday, in every country & it’s vital to life.
I can’t remember the State in the USA but Nestle bought a lake then promptly erected a fence. The locals went daft because their freedom to use or stroll the lake was gone overnight.
Hmmm..that Tory donor here that owns & sells Scottish bottled water.
Re. Non-payment of energy bills.
I recall reading an article maybe up to a year ago, but I cannot find the link. It was on the subject that the way things are currently setup with regard to energy in the UK, the energy companies we pay for leccy are not the actual generators of the power, so there were questions as to the legality of their demands for payment as they were effectively only middle men in the chain. It was something along the lines of they were billing for future energy usage, and not the actual energy already consumed, this apparently meant something in terms of debt liability.
Dan says:
3 August, 2022 at 9:16 pm
Older article re. GRA, but worth a bump for a read as should be other articles posted on that site soon.
link to gordondangerfield.com
Great article as always from Gordon Dangerfield. I’m looking forward to reading his three follow up articles.
Anything that has been achieved by gender activists since then by way of undermining any of these rulings and definitions to any degree is in my view a disastrous departure from both reality and rationality.. Gordon Dangerfield
I agree we’ve taken a disastrous departure from both reality and rationality.
There are some signs that things are beginning to unravel for both Stonewall & Sturgeon.
link to archive.ph
Silence over gender clinic closure fails children
The Scottish government has not yet responded to Cass’s interim report, published in March, nor has it formally commented upon the decision to close the Tavistock clinic’s gender service. This silence is surely unsustainable. Alex Massie
@Dan 9:45pm
Suppliers as they are called don’t necessarily generate the power. When I was in the Industry the typical profit margin for suppliers was only 5%. And that was before the myriad of one man and his computer cut profit margins to an unsainstable level. Most of these suppliers have gone to the wall. If you want to temper the Energy market they are three things you can do.
1 Remove Vat on energy bills.
2 Remove the Green subsidy after all if the Government want to pursue net zero then that’s a Government decision and shouldn’t be levied on consumers. Take the commitment from the National tax pot.
3 Create buying power from say a National Energy Company. Oh wait..
There’s a fourth option, George; nationalisation.
Note that it’s the market itself that is failing consumers, not production or supply. And when you boil it all down, the problems of the market are largely down to greed, amongst speculators and others.
It’s a relatively easy fix.
@Hatuey 10:41pm
Absolutely I worked for the North of Scotland Hydro Electric Board. A public service organisation. Great bunch of guys it has to be said. But I was also on the merger team of Scottish Hydro Electric and Southern Electric Energy. The market Cap at the time was 5 billion. They were a footsie 100 company. I stopped looking at their Market Cap now. There is no way on this Earth that a Scottish Government can buy out our public energy companies. What we can do is use our influence to ameliorate the excess of the Energy Market
I hope you agree or I am wasting my time.
This email came from FOR WOMEN SCOTLAND today
Consultation on review of Violence Against Women and Girls Services
I know we are probably all suffering from consultation fatigue but this one is really important and will take just a couple of minutes to do. As you can see from the first question the term “woman” has been redefined to include any man who declares himself to be a woman. After our judicial review win this just should not be happening!
Please respond in the box under question one that their definition of woman is unlawful and it should be changed to the biological definition “a female of any age” as defined in the Equality Act. As per the decision in For Women Scotland v LA and Scottish Ministers, “gender reassignment” is a separate protected characteristic from “sex” and the two should not be confused or conflated. The court ruled that provisions in favour of women must, by definition, exclude those who are biologically male, and that the Scottish Government cannot amend the definition of “woman”.
Please also add a couple of short sentences on why it is important to you that women’s services remain single-sex. For example, many women will opt to self-exclude themselves if there are male staff or service-users (regardless of how they identify), or worry if they can get help at all if a service has taken such an ideological stance, particularly if they have suffered abuse from a man who identifies as a woman. Some women (who may not identify as such) will be excluded entirely.
You don’t have to answer the rest of the questions if you don’t want to and you can tick the box for your response to be published anonymously, or not published at all, if you prefer.
Our response can be seen here. link to forwomen.scot
Closing date for submissions is 15 August 2022.
link to consult.gov.scot
I completed Q1 as asked and then said that as the definition of woman was unlawful the consultation was void and needed to be changed before any more of the questions could be answered.
@Hatuey 10:41pm
You made me look at the Market Cap just under 18 billion now. And remember that’s only half of the Country. Generation, Transmission and Distribution assets North of Perth. The old Scottish Power is unaccounted for. Although let’s assume the old Southern Electric territory equals that. Very doubtful as Scottish Companies were vertically integrated. How did we end up here?. Answers on a postcard.
Regarding the discussion about water, the following is an interesting story which is not so well known about:
link to herald.wales
link to walesonline.co.uk
I agree, George, the colonial administration doesn’t have the means to nationalise but the UK Government does. Those numbers are small change compared to the money the UK has printed over the last few years.
Not sure if you are aware of the campaign to stop paying energy bills I referred to earlier… It’s early days but let’s see how that develops when millions of people are going into winter and Christmas totally skint and cold.
Meanwhile, in the background, the cost of living is rising all the time.
What we are watching unfold at the moment is unprecedented. People are comparing to the oil shocks of the 1970s but back then about a 40% of the economy was public sector which provided a massive buffer against economic meltdown.
Dan says: 3 August, 2022 at 9:45 pm
Energy companies offer one or two year fixed deals capping electricity costs for that period. As you say they are billing for future energy cost usage and I would like to think that while over that period there times where the cost of energy is below that of the deal but over that period it evens out so the customer gets a good deal.
You could well be right that in the event of non-payment that the energy companies will write off the debt but for the individual it means they get a pre-paid meter installed which doesn’t solve the problem of the cost of living crisis because the pre-pay electricity is usually dearer.
IMHO, non-payment is ineffective on an individual level but can be effective as a means to change if it is done collectively as seen during the Poll Tax years.
I hope Stu’s getting some sort of refund over the amount of times this website’s gone kaput these last few days!
What this translates to is that energy firms will be able to put the price of energy up every three months instead of every six months. Scotland is swimming in energy sources, yet do and we will pay more for our energy, and with Scotland experiencing colder winter’s than England that translates to more folk in Scotland shivering in their homes because they cannot afford to heat them, its a f*cking disgrace if you ask me.
Tell me will Sturgeon and her greasy spineless and gutless SNP MSPs and MPs be sitting cold in their homes this winter? I f*cking doubt it very much. What a bunch if treacherous b*stards.
link to 12ft.io
“OFGEM has confirmed that the energy price cap is to be updated quarterly, rather than every six months, as it warned customers face a “very challenging winter ahead”.
The regulator said the change would help to “provide the stability needed in the energy market” and that “it is not in anyone’s interest for more suppliers to fail and exit the market”.”
Two unionist parties (NuSNP) and (BLiS) arguing over which one can dupe the people of Scotland the best and get away with it.
link to 12ft.io
With Rishi Sunak wanting to throw anyone in prison for insulting the now defunct empire, (it will never happen) which is an attempt to appease the Tories who’ll vote for the next PM.
The Margaret Thatcher wannabe, no not the Sturgeon one, Lizz Truss, has had to up her game by retracting any form of apology (I don’t think she made one) on her attack on the betrayer Sturgeon, and she’s added to it, by saying that she would ignore the Welsh FM Mark Drakeford as well, this too is an attempt to appease the Tory king makers.
Lets watch and see which of the two candidates for PM can make the most outlandish claims between now and time that one of them is chosen to be PM.
link to 12ft.io
Saffron Robe,
My family went to see the lake because it echoed as a crime against humanity for the welsh people of that village and for all other villages that had a valley that could be flooded in the future if England need more water.
This colonial style government often clears native ethic communities of of their lands to use their resources,
As was done in Scotland for sheep,
There are swathes of stolen land in Wales and Scotland were people were forcebly torn from their homes and removed, breaking up families and communities,
This is where I cut my teeth learning how Colonial the British government still acted in their thoughts and actions towards Wales and Scotland after the even after the second world war where those Scots and welsh families had given up sons and fathers to be free, Westminster has no loyalties even to the fallen,
The Daily media papers in England regularly advertise Welsh and Scottish property of houses, farms , small crofts, and great places for second holiday homes to complete the Colonial march forward of eliminating ethnic groups of Britian.
The Colonial politics that shaped and are still shaping these Isle’s is not advertised to the too loudly To the UN though,that britian is signed into,
If the UN was to do what it was meant to do and investigated it would not be difficult to find many instances of Colonialism still working in Britian today,
A fantastic modern day example is Westminster and supreme court in England refusing the Scots the right to self determination, while ignoring the treaty of the union for the Scots claim of Right,
That is England government continuing its Colonialism in Not so great Britian today.
constitutional lawfare, no win/no fee edition (“nob them in the orifice”)
link to celsolicitors.co.uk
tell us about the scam, when did it happen …
…1707
and how much was it for ?
… hard to say, 10 trillion (ballpark starting figure)
“A PRO-EU commentator has said if Scotland is denied indyref2 then the UK is “not a Union, it’s a prison”.”
Yip, this sentence is true, Westminster denies us democracy, as does Holyrood under Sturgeon, you could say Scots have to two jailers in this utterly f*cked up union, with Sturgeon and either Sunak or Truss at the helms of both governments, it will be easier to break out of Alcatraz, than get out of this twisted union. Clarence Darrow would knocked this case back that’s how convoluted it is.
link to 12ft.io
The Glasgow filmed wokey «Batgirl» has underwhelmed the marvelites and been binned.
Woke «Natgirl» next?
A couple of years ago I was on a no daily standing charge tariff but paid a slightly higher price per unit.
All energy providers moved away from offering this choice of tariff so they could rake in more money from consumers.
It hit the folk that use a minimal amount of energy either through poverty, or those who choose to live using minimal energy for environmental reasons, the latter which should be celebrated as an example rather than be punished.
With the daily standing charge now being 50p and 28p per unit I could produce the minimal amount of energy I require cheaper than these energy companies are
chargingfleecing me for.I’m very close to telling my energy supplier to fuck off and applying for the distribution network to come and disconnect the mains supply to my property and going off grid.
But of course there is a charge for the disconnection…
Confused,
I think perhaps that is a generiously under estimated figure for a land grab, sea bounderies grab, oil, water, energy, while de- industrilising our shipping and fishing, plus a trade grab, and rent free nuclear bases and war training ground all from Scotland’s people for over a 300 year old continued Scam.
Your to kind me thinks.
@Dan
You can stop your electricity ‘supply’ contract…if the distribution folk want to disconnect the power before the meter on safety grounds thereafter, that’s up to them.
What happened to this site?
With prices and interest rates going through the roof and a recession on the cards, will the UK government eventually call a state of emergency (in the Winter) as unrest grows on both sides of the border, and what effect will that have on Scotland.
link to yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com
Are you f*ckin listening Sturgeon, of course your not, you’ll just finger point as usual as Scots suffer, due to your treachery.
“SCOTLAND “cannot afford” to stay in the Union any longer following an announcement the UK is bound for recession, pro-independence politicians have said.
With interest rates and inflation set to rise, both the SNP and Scottish Greens said it was clear Scotland must “escape Tory rule”.
The Bank of England’s (BoE) Monetary Policy Committee has announced interest rates will rise from 1.25% to 1.75% – the biggest single increase since 1995.
Meanwhile, the BoE has warned inflation could climb above 13% later this year if regulator Ofgem hikes the price cap on energy bills to around £3,450 – the highest level for more than 42 years.
It has also predicted the UK will fall into recession in the last three months of 2022 with the economy set to continue shrinking throughout 2023.
This would be the longest downturn since the 2008 financial crisis.”
link to 12ft.io
Confused says:
4 August, 2022 at 12:27 pm
constitutional lawfare, no win/no fee edition (“nob them in the orifice”)
tell us about the scam, when did it happen …
…1707
and how much was it for ?
… hard to say, 10 trillion (ballpark starting figure)
—
I’ll make it easy for you.
If the value of the coin in the two kingdoms was to be of equal value, and there’s been £n GBP issued since 1707, the amount you allude to is equal to that plus the value of all UK Govt bonds currently held by BoE, and value of all foreign currency reserves, as a ballpark starting figure…
There was supposed to be a ledger kept by Scotland’s Treasury in perpetuity to keep track of the finances of Scotland, but “new WM” amended two Acts of the Old Parliaments to remove that condition of ‘the union’, the same Parliaments that allegedly ceased to have legal personality on its creation.
Any Actuary worth their salt could provide a pretty accurate range, if they were given access to all of the figures, not only GERS versions.
Republicofscotland @12:26pm
The problem with outlandish claims, particularly the ones that get cheered on, is that once Truss is thrown out for incompetence, the next round of candidates will have to up the bar to get support.
With things going tits-up across the board, the oppressed masses darn sarf will need someone to blame and take their frustrations out on. Since the British Army is no longer capable of fighting likes of Luxembourg never mind the Russians then the pressure to blame the spongers to the west and north will get higher and higher.
England is on a downward spiral and it will take a PM with a very strong character and a lot of political capital to burn in order to stop this. No, I don’t see one either.
The Lib/Dem branch manager in Scotland who for a while there constantly attacked Alex Salmond’s under budget and on time Queensferry Crossing, (take heed Sturgeon) and who loves nothing more than to free dive under the bridge has finally found his niche in life.
link to 12ft.io
Stuart @3.39pm.
Yes Stuart the PM’s job at this time is in my opinion a poisoned chalice, with all that’s coming down the line neither Sunak nor Truss have what it takes to steady the ship.
Scotland is if you like a rowing boat tethered to the back of the Titanic after it has hit the iceberg, as things get worse for England inevitably they will have a knock on effect in Scotland, slipping the knot (independence) will at least give us a chance to plot another course.
… understand the devastating impact a fraud or scam can have on its victims. Firstly, there is an immediate financial loss when money, often large sums of cash, is lost to scammers. Secondly, and perhaps most importantly, is the EMOTIONAL IMPACT, when people realise they’ve been duped, many of whom feel EMBARRASSED OR ASHAMED about what’s happened.
– jockholm syndrome, the cringe, denial – “Scotland was never colonised … ” (copyright Hassan et al)
aye james/scott – a trillion here, a trillion there … pretty soon you’re talking -real- money … (the indians did their own similar calculation which came to 43trillion, but that included the koh i noor diamond; the caribbeans were doing their own one, mainly about slavery, but there was a fire in the national archives, losing vital records, sheer bad luck.)
Off Topic.
Am I the only one every time I see Stuart MacKay avatar think momentarily that it’s Bradley Walsh from “The Chase”?
“Am I the only one every time I see Stuart MacKay avatar think momentarily that it’s Bradley Walsh from “The Chase”?
Yes.
Nice to see where Johnson’s priorities lie, and also those of the Red Tories leader and millionaire knight of the realm Sir Kier Starmer.
“BORIS Johnson and Keir Starmer are both off enjoying holidays while the UK is forecast to go into recession amid rising interest rates and inflation.
Despite his premiership ending in less than five weeks when he will be replaced by either Liz Truss or Rishi Sunak, Johnson has decided to take some time off until the end of the week.”
Both men are millionaires, do you really think they give a toss about the average person on a low income struggling to make ends meet?
No doubt the betrayer and her man are worth a pretty penny also.
link to 12ft.io
I’m trying to figure the cause of the recession & why
Britain is facing a much bleaker economic outlook than either the US or eurozone
I tried to archive the financial times article without success
‘Bank of England increases interest rates by 0.5 percentage points‘
it stated:
The BoE’s move follows similarly aggressive steps by the European Central Bank and US Federal Reserve in the face of soaring inflation. But its forecasts suggest Britain is facing a much bleaker economic outlook than either the US or eurozone, because households are both more exposed to the energy price shock than in the US, and less protected by government measures than in the eurozone.
Can you help?
Fluffy and his younger clone Huffy, both back the wannabe Margaret Thatcher Lizz Truss to face down the other wannabe Margaret Thatcher Nicola Sturgeon if she becomes PM.
“THE former Scottish Secretary David Mundell has thrown his weight behind Liz Truss in the Tory leadership race, saying she “will not hesitate” to face down the SNP.
Suggesting her rival Rishi Sunak would be too weak to enter Downing Street, the Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale and Tweeddale MP said Ms Truss would be “steely” in dealing with Nicola Sturgeon.
“We need a leader who has the courage of their convictions as a Unionist,” he said.
Mr Mundell’s son, the MSP Oliver Mundell, backed Ms Truss earlier this week.”
link to 12ft.io
There are gaps in commentary is the site having problems?
Two foreign oil companies decide how they’ll divvy up our North sea assets, this has been going on for decades.
“A NORTH Sea focused oil business has said it has agreed a farm-out deal for the Carra prospect east of Aberdeen.
Orcadian Energy announced it concluded the arrangement with Carrick Resources Limited for the prospect which is estimated to contain about 30 million barrels. The firm agreed heads of terms regarding a deal for Carrick Resources to buy in to acreage containing Carra last year.
Under the terms of the current agreement, the consideration for the transfer of the Carra interest will be met by the reaching of certain work milestones, with no cash involved. Carrick will review existing data currently being reprocessed by remapping the prospect.
In return, on completion of the updated mapping, Orcadian will assign a 50 per cent interest in the sub-area of prospect licence, which contains the bulk of the Carra prospect, to Carrick.”
link to orcadian.energy
link to carrickresources.com
“The BoE said that because of the latest surge in gas prices, driven by disruption in supplies caused by Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, it now expected inflation to rise above 13 per cent at the end of the year — much higher than its May forecast. It would remain at “very elevated levels” throughout 2023 before falling back to the 2 per cent target in two years’ time.
“The Russian shock is now the largest contributor to UK inflation. There is an economic cost to the war. But it will not deflect us from setting monetary policy to bring inflation back to the 2 per cent target,” Andrew Bailey, BoE governor, said after the decision.” Financial Times.
Would this not suggest that peace talk should be top of the agenda?
It would be good to have a first minister who spoke about peace and not war.
“Tyrants fall in every foe! Liberty’s in every blow!- Let us do or die!”
Warmonger Sturgeon applauds this idea!
Is the rise in the cost of everything really all down to Russia’s invasion of Ukraine?
I’m really not getting this or can believe that increasing mortgage, loan and credit cards rates bring down inflation?
They say it will mean employers will have less to give workers on pay demands so the workers have less to spend and might start saving more?
So millions barely got by, there are next to no pay rises anywhere near the rate of inflation.
Basic food stuffs are up over 20%, inflation now predicted at over 13%, my home energy projection is to go from £1,200 per annum to £3,600 plus within a year.
Diesel for the car at a record £2 per litre/£9 per gallon.
The Tories throw in an increase on National insurance for good measure.
If I need to find an extra £5,000 then I need to earn an extra £7,500 before tax.
So have your home reposed, go hungry, freeze in the Winter, don’t ask for a pay rise and keep Scotland under Westminster Tory rule or things could get bad. FFS
Comment awaiting bloody moderation. Fuck this moderation and the idiots who caused it.
“The BoE said that because of the latest surge in gas prices, driven by disruption in supplies caused by redacted’s invasion of redacted, it now expected inflation to rise above 13 per cent at the end of the year — much higher than its May forecast. It would remain at “very elevated levels” throughout 2023 before falling back to the 2 per cent target in two years’ time.
“The redacted shock is now the largest contributor to UK inflation. There is an economic cost to the war. But it will not deflect us from setting monetary policy to bring inflation back to the 2 per cent target,” Andrew Bailey, BoE governor, said after the decision.” Financial Times.
Would this not suggest that peace talk should be top of the agenda?
It would be good to have a first minister who spoke about peace and not war.
“Tyrants fall in every foe! Liberty’s in every blow!- Let us do or die!”
Warmonger Sturgeon applauds this idea!
Is the rise in the cost of everything really all down to redacted’s invasion of redacted?
James che says:
4 August, 2022 at 6:40 pm
There are gaps in commentary is the site having problems?
The site was down this afternoon.
“I’m trying to figure the cause of the recession & why
Britain is facing a much bleaker economic outlook than either the US or eurozone”
Ruby.
A couple of things added to it are the stupidity of Brexit, and the thousands of asinine sanctions against the largest European country that provides multiple goods and services to Europe and wider afield.
Throw in the oil companies selling their products to the highest bidder or having to fulfill pre-Covid existing contracts first, and then factor in the vileness of corporate greed, these are just a few of the many reasons why things are going to get much tougher and expensive.
Re the leaders of the countries,
Does any one know the name of the company that Captures the world leaders, empty’s their brains out and then reloads it with the same universal crap,
Is it done by hallucingenic drugs, plus hypnoses,
Or perhaps after an invite to meetings, elite meetings at that, they are asked if they could be granted a wish, to be anyone they wanted, who would they like to be in history, then after the operation to insert the new brain behind their buttocks the new paradime
Liz T opted for maggie thatcher, NS choose the, we came we saw, we killed hilary clinton one, boris johnstone choose churchill after he had passed away.
Biden choose a court jester, keir choose to be a tory leader, gordon b wanted to imitate a turncoat.
The only problem is that the re- cycled brains were not fully functioning with above average intelligence beforehand.
And caused massive hemmorrhaging of intelligence during transplant.
Now we are all receivers of low intelligence robotic leaders that can only say a few same sentences between them,
They all have to be given the copycat script to cite from.around the globe, these brain transplanted leaders even sing the same.
Ruby says:
4 August, 2022 at 6:32 pm
” I’m trying to figure the cause of the recession & why
Britain is facing a much bleaker economic outlook than either the US or eurozone ”
Because the UK – all of it – is * managed * by the biggest bunch of venal , useless cunts in the history of venal , useless cunts- n that’s a pretty long history .
And the ” Free ” World ( whits that ? ) is run by a relatively small bunch of venal , useless , nasty cunts was loadsa money , weapons n power
link to archive.ph
This article states
Last week the governor of the Bank of England, Andrew Bailey, warned that Britons are likely to suffer a deeper and longer downturn than other major industrialised nations. He also said inflation would be more severe and persistent.
Unique to the British experience is Brexit, which has imposed extra costs and restrictions on exporters to the EU and limited the supply of skilled labour. And after 10 years of austerity, publicly funded organisations entered the pandemic in a weak position and are now in an even worse state as they grapple with the rocketing cost of living and a shortage of workers.
This article suggest that the rise in the cost of everything is not all down to redacted’s invasion of redacted but that Brexit is responsible for Britons suffering a deeper and longer downturn than other major industrialised nation.
Ruby says: at 7:09 pm
“Would this not suggest that peace talk should be top of the agenda?”
Well aye, but unfortunately psychopaths can make much more profit selling weapons to other psychopaths than they can by selling nice rainbow peace flags.
Anyway, gotta dash as making a batch of blackcurrant jam on the woodburner. Nae hawking shareholders will profit from my homegrown berries and eco-cooking stove! 😉
” Would this not suggest that peace talk should be top of the agenda?
It would be good to have a first minister who spoke about peace and not war. ”
Indeed , Ruby . I agree 100%
Dan says:
4 August, 2022 at 7:42 pm
Well aye, but unfortunately psychopaths can make much more profit selling weapons to other psychopaths than they can by selling nice rainbow peace flags.
Well aye but they do need us plebs to fire their weapons. Currently in the UK we plebs do have the power to tell them where to stuff their weapons.
Reading through the various articles about the recession it sounds as if the idea that is being promoted is that the huge increase in the cost of living, folk starving & having to use foodbanks, folk likely to freeze to death this winter, shortage of staff, queues at Dover, rail strikes etc etc is all Putin’s fault.
Nothing to do with Sturgeon, the UK Government or Brexit it’s that bastard Putin who is to blame.
“Tyrants fall in every foe! Liberty’s in every blow!- Let us do or die!”
Air punch!
I wouldn’t be surprised if he got the blame for the ‘Black Pampers’
Bloody hell! Another comment awaiting bloody moderation.
Fuck the posters & ‘their bin fires’ who caused this crazy moderation!
Reading through the various articles about the recession it sounds as if the idea that is being promoted is that the huge increase in the cost of living, folk starving & having to use foodbanks, folk likely to freeze to death this winter, shortage of staff, queues at Dover, rail strikes etc etc is all redacted’s fault.
Nothing to do with Sturgeon, the UK Government or Brexit it’s that bastard redacted who is to blame.
“Tyrants fall in every foe! Liberty’s in every blow!- Let us do or die!”
Air punch!
I wouldn’t be surprised if he got the blame for the ‘Black Pampers’
@ Ruby
Well aye, but for as long as I have been alive and no doubt long before, the masses fail to unite to rid us of the few that cause so much conflict and suffering.
Just look back over the decades at the various protest influenced music that resonated with so many in those eras.
Yet, never have we achieved a critical mass made up of all current living demographics groups motivated and disciplined enough to succeed in making the world as tasty as my homegrown confiture…
Divide and rule… divide and rule… And still so many fall for it. 🙂
Correction… 🙁
“The BoE said that because of the latest surge in gas prices, driven by disruption in supplies caused by redacted’s invasion of redacted, it now expected inflation to rise above 13 per cent at the end of the year”
Ruby.
A total lie, said country is fulfilling its fuel obligations to Europe, god only knows why, I’d have cut the lot of them off in the blink of an eye.
Anyway said country due to inane sanctions imposed upon it, that are hurting the West more than said country, cannot up its gas supplies to Europe due to sanctions against it, which means it cannot import and install gas turbines to supply Europe with more gas.
We’re led by donkeys, and in Scotland’s case treacherous donkey’s.
Dan says:
4 August, 2022 at 8:28 pm
Just look back over the decades at the various protest influenced music that resonated with so many in those eras.
Funnily enough I was just thinking about this song
link to tinyurl.com
Your homegrown confiture sounds tasty. I always like a bit of ginger in my confiture.
You heard it here first folks….jam recipes, People’s Front Socialism and whingeing about how ordinary folks lack the discipline for revolution: a sure fire path to indy.
How can it fail? 🙂
Dan says: 4 August, 2022 at 12:41 pm
I had posted earlier where I mentioned that the 1 or 2 year fixed deals are better than going on pre-pay meter but the way things are going, it is probably better going on pre-pay especially as you say they rook you with the daily standing charge if you are a low energy user.
@ PacMan
It appears you still pay the standing charge on a prepay meter.
“As well as paying for the gas and electricity you use, you pay a daily fee for being connected – known as a standing charge. You pay this with a normal meter too, but when you’re on prepayment you need to have credit to pay it – even on days when you don’t use any gas or electricity.”
And cheers Scott, I’ll check out that potential option as from what I had read there was a network disconnection charge.
It’s amazing that some no mark moonhowling roaster can cobble together some old parts to produce power cheaper than the big energy companies…
Back to matters gender-woo related….an excellent summary on Human Rights Blog of the implications of the Forstater and Bailey cases by Alasdair Henderson, barrister at Crown Office Row chambers:
These two cases are a clear warning to employers not to take sides in the current debate over sex and gender in a way that prevents anyone from expressing their point of view, so long as they do so in a reasonable manner. They are also of wider significance in handling expressions of religion or belief in the workplace; a reminder that it is generally wrong to take any action against a worker because someone either inside or outside the organisation disagrees with, or is offended by, a straightforward expression by the worker of a belief they hold.
Both cases are also a stark reminder to employers that they need to be careful to follow and apply the law, rather than the recommendations of campaign groups or the personal views of diversity and inclusion advisers. Garden Court’s mistake, at least in part, was to focus too much on what it thought others such as Stonewall would think, rather than what the law required. CGD went wrong, at least in part, because of an ill-considered reliance upon guidance from a US-based adviser who does not seem to have understood UK equality law.
link to ukhumanrightsblog.com
Dan says:
4 August, 2022 at 9:25 pm
Dan, completely off topic. I should really do a bit more homework on it, but thought you might know the score a lot quicker than me.
I seem to remember reading a couple of years ago, just before the Covid shite kicked in, that England, and I believe Scotland a year later were thinking about banning burning unprocessed wood in a wood burning stove, i.e., not burning dead branches/logs scavenged form the woods and that you would have to buy, or process kiln dried wood. Any idea where that that whole thing stands at the moment?
Thought I would ask you as you seem quite self-sufficient.
Just curious really.
Cheers
Dan says: 4 August, 2022 at 9:25 pm
@ PacMan
Apologies. What I was meaning was that given the state of energy prices now, being on a pre-pay meter might actually not be unattractive as being on a yearly fixed deal.
TBH, I didn’t even bother checking for a better deal on electricity last year and now that you have mentioned about how standing charges are not beneficial to my usage, I might look around once my current deal expires in the next month or two.
James che says:
4 August, 2022 at 7:21 pm
The only problem is that the re- cycled brains were not fully functioning with above average intelligence beforehand.
(from ancient memory, must watch the film again)
“So, whose brain is this, then?”
“Abby someone; Abby….Normal.”
Ottomanboi says: 4 August, 2022 at 12:35 pm
Batgirl is actually part of the DC Comics universe.
The spin is that the movie was pulled for financial reasons and part of the restructuring plan after Warner Brothers/Discovery merger.
Despite how they spin it, it does sound like a lot of people behind the camera who have little experience or the track record to make a successful entertaining blockbuster.
TBH, there are a few of these superhero movies that are good but most of them are disposable pap. They are okay to keep the weans quiet for a couple of hours but as entertainment in it’s own right, they are okay to watch once but you’ll go back and watch them again.
Whether woke or not, I just wish this superhero genre would die a quick death and Hollywood starts making movies that entertain people and dare I say, even ones that have a message that isn’t forced or preachy.
Republicofscotland says: 4 August, 2022 at 8:33 pm
To be fair, European countries in their attempt to find alternative sources of energy, are buying off the international market which is making prices volatile. As the UK buys off the same international market, we are affected by it as well.
However, I get your point about how the conflict is being used to deflect from the other causes of our cost of living crisis that is politically embarrassing to Westminster and it’s apologists.
Regards the Welsh village that was sunk.
Wasn’t it only a few years ago England draged & dumped their nuclear mud out of England & into Wales? Not to mention the raw sewage waste they spew. That is surely set to get worse with Brexshit? Manky Britain can return to being manky again.
There’s our good neighbours in action – sharing the glow.
Going back to bottled water from last night. I think it was Michigan. State officials turned off water treatments & resident had two choices. 1. Have raw sewage & a fast track ticket to meet Jesus from your tap. Or 2. Buy the clean stuff from the shops.
Scotland will be pumped stupid from all angles & not in a nice way.
Gotta love the Scottish cringe in snackbeard. What a tosser! He’d back anyone to deny democracy. He’ll be sniffing around his contacts on tinder to see if Liz needs a men’s room attendant for her new cabinet.
@ Aberdeen Pict
I think banning woodstoves was just in cities and towns for their low emissions zones.
I live out in the sticks so have a ready supply of sticks!
A lot of it is greenwash pish anyway. There’s no DPFs (Diesel Particulate Filters) and CATs on residential oil boilers. There’s no personal limits / carbon allocation as to how much fuel you can burn if you can afford it.
We have a local supplier of firewood that sells firewood from, wait for it… Estonia or Latvia. Tell me how the fuck importing and transporting kiln dried firewood accross a continent and sea is greener than burning my locally sourced wind fallen and seasoned stickage.
Pretty much all the big estates near me have installed huge biomass burning systems to heat their big hooses. All subsidised by the taxpayer but they need to buy the approved wood pellets to get the subsidies. They cannae use any of the wood that’s lying rotting away in the forests they own.
O/T: I’ve been wondering why the SNP has decided to join in with the Scotgov case to the Supreme Court.
Could it be to push the case for independence and Scotland’s rights?
I fear not. The only reason that I can think of that fits the nuSNP’s aversion to seizing the day and asserting Scotland’s status as an equal signatory to the Treaty of Union, is to DELAY the whole process – drag the case out for so long that “oh dear we have run out of time to hold a referendum in 2023”.
Now it all makes sense. Sigh.
It’s good to see that more people are focusing on the looming economic crisis.
With MSM sources predicting average household energy bills will rise to around £300 per month (and you should take a moment to contemplate that), it’s time for the Indy movement to start planning. Alba should take the lead on this.
Of course, we should assume that Westminster and its colonial management team in Holyrood are already making plans. They have a very difficult task ahead of them for one very striking reason;
Scotland produces more oil, gas, and electricity than it needs.
In case you didn’t notice, by the way, the constitutional debate is effectively over. It’s no longer a question of independence or the Union. The new choice on offer is misery and poverty on one hand versus prosperity and happiness on the other.
Independence is the means now, not the end. And that’s important.
Andy Ellis says:
4 August, 2022 at 8:59 pm
You heard it here first folks….jam recipes, People’s Front Socialism and whingeing about how ordinary folks lack the discipline for revolution: a sure fire path to indy.
How can it fail? ?
Rev. Stuart Campbell says:
6 July, 2022 at 12:48 pm
Andy Ellis, Ruby: if either of you ever mentions the other by name (including any “clever” ways of doing so indirectly) again in any context whatsoever you’re banned. Clear? Not comment deleted, not pre-moderation, banned.
I have HAD ENOUGH of this fucking playground shit.
Curious to know if Stuart Campbell just makes these threats late in the night but doesn’t actually follow through with his treats.
Obviously not otherwise the above poster would be banned. Not comment deleted, not pre-moderation, but banned.
Actually, Sarah, I think the real reason for the political intervention in the case is even more depressing than you suggest. Roddy Dunlop QC hinted at it in an article about 2 weeks ago… have a look at it.
@Dan 10:17pm
In cities it is all about Particulate Matter emissions specifically PM 2.5 and PM 10. PM 2.5 being the worst getting through the lung spatial gaps and causing illness amongst vulnerable groups like asthma sufferers. I wouldn’t go for the disconnection process. The reconnection process is even worse. The law favours distribution networks. The first thing they will do is to remove the Cut Out Fuse. And negotiate with you. Remember they are supplying the house and not you. You may move on etc. There is little chance of them doing a pot joint outside of your premises. And that will affect the value of your house. We are all in this energy crisis together. One way or another. And I have got through a Wings post without mentioning the glorious Dundee United. We are going to book the UEFA Cup final tickets tomorrow.
RepuplicofScotland & Ruby.
It’s nothing to do with *redacted* & everything to do with quantatve easing would be my guess. The Tories Christmases all came at once when Bawjaws won the keys to the treasury & was giving out £billions to themselves & their mates.
Sunak – Nooooo. That can only be used in a dire emergency!
Bawjaws – *hic* stop being a stiff, old chap! *hic* have a drink & join the party! If the BoE go daft about pesky inflation & interest whatjamacallits just put it in the bin. And fkn blink if they ask! You look dodgy as fk when you stare! Anything you need?
Sunak, Well, my Jesus sandles are a bit melted. It’s terribly hot in California … OK.. size 10.
LOL
@ Hatuey: is that the article that Joanna Cherry has responded to, saying: “Indy supporters should not be too disheartened if commentators, legal or otherwise, pour scorn on these [SNP] submissions. We had to contend with that in both the Art 50 revocation case and the prorogation case but ultimately our arguments found favour with the court.”
I hope JC is responding to RD because I can’t take any more depressing at this time of night!
No, Sarah. In short, Dunlop questions a political intervention in a case to the supreme court that essentially hinges on the idea that the question of whether Holyrood has competence or not is a legal question, and not a political question.
It seems to somewhat scupper the very argument they sent the Lord Advocate to make, does it not?