The world's most-read Scottish politics website

Wings Over Scotland


Free beer tomorrow

Posted on July 06, 2022 by

You know how the SNP are always going on about how bad the Tories are and how urgently we need to get rid of them? Well, it turns out they don’t want that to happen for at least a couple of years. They just want a different Tory as Prime Minister, even though they keep telling us that Boris Johnson is the greatest recruiting sergeant for independence there could be.

That’s odd, isn’t it?

SKY:This is a formal call by the leader of the Labour Party for a general election to be held. Is that the SNP’s position?

SMITH:No it’s not.

Are you seeing it yet?

Print Friendly

    577 to “Free beer tomorrow”

    1. Ruby says:

      It’s the ‘Binfire of the Franchise’ again!

    2. Ruby says:

      robbo says:
      11 July, 2022 at 6:50 pm

      Andy Ellis .

      Not one person I’ve seen on here has said 10 years Forget comparing comparing apples and oranges you just come out with complete lies in this area. You know it.

      Most people have just said it needs looked at. Like, temporary students, holiday home owners etc.

      Now you tell me robbo! 🙂

      I’ve spent months trying to track down all these moonhowlers & nativists without success. Do you think all these moonholwers & nativists that others see might be pink?

    3. robbo says:

      Ruby says:
      11 July, 2022 at 7:14 pm
      robbo says:
      11 July, 2022 at 6:50 pm

      Andy Ellis .

      ——-

      There in his heid. 99.5% don’t exist but he’ll still play the same game. If he thinks it’s fair for temp studants and holiday home owners to be included then you know where his loyalty lays.

    4. Chas says:

      I watched Scotland play Argentina on Saturday at rugby. Scotland won. The ‘man of the match’ was awarded to Hamish Watson, who plays his rugby for Edinburgh. He is a proud Scot however he was born in England.
      There are posters on this site who would not permit him to vote in an Independence referendum?
      Why?

    5. Saffron Robe says:

      Alf Baird says:

      “Postcolonial theory tells us that the dominant national party elites’ unnecessary delay, deceit and petrification at a crucial stage in the independence/decolonization process only stores up more serious problems for the future.”

      That is exactly what is happening, Alf. Sturgeon is the personification of delay, deceit and petrification.

    6. Andy Ellis says:

      @robbo 6.56 pm

      Not one person I’ve seen on here has said 10 years Forget comparing comparing apples and oranges you just come out with complete lies in this area. You know it.

      Oh dear robbo! How about Big Jock @ 12.38 up thread, who said:

      Quote: “ Whether that’s 10 year residency or something else, but not just an all comers franchise.”

      Just because you didn’t see it, it hasn’t happened eh? Nativists in here have advocated everything from disenfranching everyone not born in Scotland, to residence criteria ranging from 25 years down to 2 years. These aren’t lies, they’re what the nativists want: all they’re arguing about is how many “New Scots” to disenfranchise.

      Most people have just said it needs looked at. Like, temporary students, holiday home owners etc.

      *Some* have, and some have also said – often repeatedly, aggressively and accompanied by various levels of abuse against those pointing out that franchise restriction is both morally and politically problematic – that it should be generally applied and exclude tens or hundreds of thousands of those eligible to vote in 2014. So looks like you don’t know what you’re talking about. I won’t accuse you of lying, because I’m a better person than you.

      It’s been stated many times most native scots voted for Indy. I’m not sure where it is recorded but you keep saying native scots never voted for Indy- that’s a lie or at best an assumption by YOU..

      Then you haven’t been paying attention. Yet still you feel entitled to bloviate to those better informed than you and accuse them of lying. I never said native Scots didn’t vote for indy, I said not ENOUGH of them were persuaded to vote indy. That’s why the votes of a relatively small cadre of “New Scots” were decisive on this occasion, but that’s just democracy.

      The nativists continue to be butt hurt about it of course, but they have no case. If the >80% of Native Scots had voted more heavily for independence, then the votes of New Scots would have been irrelevant. If the turnout had been the same as the 1995 Quebec referendum 93.52%, almost 10% more than 2014, the result might have been different.

      As is obvious from the above, you’re either not arguing in good faith, or you have reading comprehension issues. I don’t really care which. You’ve shown what kind of person you are.

    7. Andy Ellis says:

      @”Scott” 7.01 pm

      Look harder.

      I have looked. New Caledonia is recognised as a de-colonisation situation by the UN. Scotland isn’t. They aren’t the same.

      More reasonable people and non nativists, will be able to figure out that what I’ve said all along is true: the vast majority of comparable self determination votes use residence not birth criteria indistinguishable except for minor details to the one used in Scotland in 2014.

      New Caledonia isn’t remotely comparable, however hard you try to make it so, because self determination in instances of de-colonisation aren’t the same as situations like Scotland, Quebec or Catalonia.

    8. George Ferguson says:

      @Chas 8:22pm
      One of my son in laws is English. Married to my daughter with children. Living in Scotland and paying additional tax we are not allowed to call it a higher tax payer it may offend someone. Should he get a vote absolutely, if our case is that rotten that we care about a few tens of thousand votes? Anyhoo the latest research coming up on the Scottish Government. I am more concerned about that. Whether you are indigenous Scottish or otherwise we deserve decent public services. Incidentally he voted for Brexit take back control etc. He wasn’t here in 2014. I think I can persuade him on IndyRef2.

    9. Andy Ellis says:

      @Chas 8.22 pm

      There are posters on this site who would not permit him to vote in an Independence referendum?
      Why?

      Simple: because they’re regressive, blood and soil nationalists. Most if not all have a chip on their shoulder. Some balance it by having one on each shoulder. I’d lay odds that quite a few are such charlatans they’d make exceptions for elite sports people though.

      The “We’re only talking about making things fairer / excluding students / second home owners…” schtick is just their lame equivalent of “I’m not a nativist but….” argument.

      Odd too that none of the nativists so outraged at the (relatively) small number of “furriners” they’re convinced cost us visctory in 2014 appear in the least concerned about the number of votes regressive nativism might lose the cause. It was a point brought up early in the debate by Stu Campbell. It’s not hard to see why they are loath to answer it, or even engage on the point.

    10. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Andy Ellis at 8:37 pm.

      You typed,
      “I have looked. New Caledonia is recognised as a de-colonisation situation by the UN. Scotland isn’t. They aren’t the same.”

      The meaning of the word “territory”…

      territory |?t?r?t(?)ri|
      noun (pl.territories)
      1 an area of land under the jurisdiction of a ruler or state: the government was prepared to give up the nuclear weapons on its territory | [ mass noun ] : sorties into enemy territory.

      So, you believe that Scotland is not a colony of England/UK but the UK government regards Scotland as a “territory”.

      A quote from the link below…

      “Monday 14 June 2021

      The House of Lords Common Frameworks Scrutiny Committee will tomorrow question ministers from Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland territorial offices, on their role in the Union, and in terms of facilitating intergovernmental relations.”

      https://www.parliament.uk/business/lords/media-centre/house-of-lords-media-notices/2021/june-2021/territorial-ministers-to-give-evidence-on-the-union/

      You cannot deny, given the UK parliament’s own words, that Scotland is regarded as a “territory” (or “colony”) of England/UK’s (establishment).

      It’s obvious, to those with their senses in gear, that Scotland is regarded as a property of England/UK by that establishment.

      That propaganda is what we, Scots, have to fight against.

    11. Andy Ellis says:

      You cannot deny, given the UK parliament’s own words, that Scotland is regarded as a “territory” (or “colony”) of England/UK’s (establishment).

      Well, yes…I can deny it because it’s tendentious, Brigadoonesque, “puir wee victim” bollocks aimed at deflecting from the generalised failure of the movement to make the progress it ought to have made.

      Part of the reason for that might be the nasty infestation of nativists it appears to have picked up of course. Lots of folk think blood and soil nativism is deeply regressive. They’d no sooner want to live in the kind of Scotland they’d build than the one Sturgeon and her minions would build.

    12. George Ferguson says:

      @BrianDoonthetoon 9:01pm
      Nobody doubts we are living in an unequal Union. My question to you is, the Scottish Government has done more to prevent another vote than Westminster. Controversial I know. True nonetheless. We have been manipulated for years. Another mandate etc. I have no confidence in the ability of Nicola Sturgeon to deliver a vote of any description. I was sad Dundee went down no more derbies for a year at least.

    13. Dan says:

      Oh aye, aw we need tae do is simply fight the propaganda when the MSM is pretty much in its entirety unionist in outlook, and control of Broadcasting is a Reserved power held by the very country we want to be free from, but they need to hold on to us for our resources…

      With regard to temporary residents being allowed to vote in democratic process relating to Scotland’s constitutional future. It isn’t just about the number of temporary residents themselves getting a vote. It also has to be considered how enfranchising those folk is used as yet another divide and rule and influencing tactic by those who hold media power and influence.
      Temporary residents living in Scotland from the Kingdom of England (who generally haven’t got a fucking scooby of our historical struggle) will undoubtedly make new acquaintances and form bonds of friendship with indigenous folk when they arrive here. So it is very easy to use Better Together shite such as playing on folk’s decent side when folk that consider voting for Indy are tarred with being anti-English, breaking up friendships, or splitting up the “country”, etc.
      Anybody that has carried out real face to face activism knows just how hard it is to have decent informative chats with open-minded folk outwith our own social circles. But that effort to reach folk is insignificant when the small percentage of activists are up against the might and influential reach of the MSM, Broadcast programs, and manipulated social media algorithms.

    14. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Andy Ellis at 9:17 pm.

      You typed,
      “Well, yes…I can deny it because it’s tendentious, Brigadoonesque, “puir wee victim” bollocks aimed at deflecting from the generalised failure of the movement to make the progress it ought to have made.”

      So, you deny that the England/UK establishment regards Scotland, an equal partner in the Treaty of Union, as a territory of the England/UK establishment?

      Where is your evidence for that misplaced belief?

      Anything to do with English/UK/tory MPs declaring that Scotland’s people cannot decide to become an independent nation until, at least, 2033?

    15. McDuff says:

      Andy Ellis
      Nativists Nativists, why don`t` you just call us Jocks or Vermin they are the same labels as far as i` concerned.
      I ache for independence for my country and i and others have every right to be unhappy if thousands of English nationals settle in Scotland bringing their Westminster mentality and voting No in a referendum which they decidedly did in`14 and will do again if there is ever another one. No problem with Yes voters
      coming.
      Now you are obviously quite happy for an influx of No voters to pore across the border which is just a tad strange for someone who purports to support independence???

    16. Andy Ellis says:

      But that effort to reach folk is insignificant when the small percentage of activists are up against the might and influential reach of the MSM, Broadcast programs, and manipulated social media algorithms.

      So what explains the increase in support for independence between 2012-14 then?

      If we went up from the high 20’s % to 45% in 2 years with the same universally hostile MSM, how come we’ve been more or less stuck ever since and shouldn’t we be able to add the required additional % more easily given current circumstances?

      I know a lot of folk are really invested in the idea that “we wuz robbed” because *reasons*, but whether it’s non-natives, hostile MSM or colonialists, it doesn’t necessarily mean their hobby horse issues are convincing, still less true.

    17. Ruby says:

      Andy Ellis says:
      Simple: because they’re regressive, blood and soil nationalists. Most if not all have a chip on their shoulder. Some balance it by having one on each shoulder. I’d lay odds that quite a few are such charlatans they’d make exceptions for elite sports people though.

      MORE PERSONAL ABUSE

    18. Derek says:

      Dan says:
      11 July, 2022 at 9:42 pm

      “But that effort to reach folk is insignificant when the small percentage of activists are up against the might and influential reach of the MSM, Broadcast programs, and manipulated social media algorithms”

      I agree. Death by a thousand cuts, isn’t it?

    19. Dan says:

      @ Andy Ellis

      Re. Increasing pro-indy support between 2012 – 14

      Maybe we had a relatively decent on point YES movement then… But that still doesn’t mean what I jst described wasn’t still an advabtage to the unionist side.
      Now we have a shit state of divisive pish to contend with from all sides.
      So that was then, this is now. And if things are just the same as then, where the fuck is the Section 30 for another Ref. when there is even more of a mandate for one now than there was back then…

    20. Ruby says:

      Chas says:
      11 July, 2022 at 8:22 pm

      I watched Scotland play Argentina on Saturday at rugby. Scotland won. The ‘man of the match’ was awarded to Hamish Watson, who plays his rugby for Edinburgh. He is a proud Scot however he was born in England.
      There are posters on this site who would not permit him to vote in an Independence referendum?
      Why?

      Name these posters please. If you don’t then I will assume you are making things up.

      When you say proud Scot do you mean proud Scot but?
      I believe ‘The Scottish Rugby Team’ are anti-Scottish independence.

    21. Ruby says:

      Andy Ellis says:
      11 July, 2022 at 8:55 pm

      @Chas 8.22 pm

      There are posters on this site who would not permit him to vote in an Independence referendum?
      Why?

      Simple: because they’re regressive, blood and soil nationalists. Most if not all have a chip on their shoulder. Some balance it by having one on each shoulder. I’d lay odds that quite a few are such charlatans they’d make exceptions for elite sports people though.

      Unless you name these poster everyone will just believe you are imagining these moonhowlers & nativists when you’ve had too much to drink.

      PS Are these ‘moonhowlers’ pink?

    22. Ruby says:

      Re. Increasing pro-indy support between 2012 – 14

      2012 – 2014 – Great leader
      2014 – 2022 – Unspiring, corrupt, narcissistic lying dud.

    23. Ruby says:

      The curious thing about the ‘hostile MSM’ is that they are no longer hostile to the SNP but are still an advantage to the Unionist side.

    24. Ruby says:

      FAO Chas & Andy

      C’mon guys give me names. I need to keep an eye out for these Moonhowlers.

      The name I would really like is the charalatan th

    25. Ruby says:

      FAO Chas & Andy

      C’mon guys give me names. I need to keep an eye out for these Moonhowlers.

      The name I would really like is the ‘Moonhowling charlatan’ who would make an exception for some ‘Proud Scot But’ from the ‘Scottish Rugby Team’

      Ha! Ha! Ha! Lol! Lol! Lol!

      🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

    26. Ruby says:

      It looks as if Chas & Andy may have been put into moderation either that or they have been totally banned.

    27. Roger says:

      Ruby says:
      11 July, 2022 at 5:23 pm

      Roger says:
      11 July, 2022 at 12:36 pm

      Ruby
      “My question is why would they be on prime time TV pitching for votes when only 0.29% of the British population will be able to vote. Is it all just to remind Scotland to know their place.”

      How does two Tory leadership contenders campaigning make Scotland ‘know its place’? I’m genuinely curious how you make that connection…

      Are you winding me up Roger?

      No, I just get curious as to how people see things sometimes. If you believe the Tory leadership candidates were on TV ‘just to remind Scotland to know their place’, that’s what you believe.

      I would assume they were there because they’re campaigning to be Tory leader – and because no politician turns down the chance to be on TV. Of course they will all oppose an s.30 indyref – as does Starmer. They’re all unionists at the end of the day. But they’re not JUST unionists, so everything they do isn’t about the union and indy.

    28. Alf Baird says:

      On the matter of indy strategy, this looks timely:

      https://peterabell.scot/2022/07/11/there-is-only-scottishudi/

      Come away Scotland, number 65 British colony to decolonise, yer oppressive times up. Gaun yersel Blackford, ditch yon ‘civic nationalism’ hoo-ha for the real McCoy – #Scottishudi.

    29. Alf Baird says:

      Roger @ 11:38 pm

      “but they’re not JUST unionists”

      That’s right, their colonizers. That’s why, as the UN tells us, independence is decolonisation.

    30. Roger says:


      Alf Baird says:
      11 July, 2022 at 11:51 pm

      Roger @ 11:38 pm

      “but they’re not JUST unionists”

      That’s right, their colonizers. That’s why, as the UN tells us, independence is decolonisation.

      No it does not. The Falklands and Gibraltar are classed as colonies/non-self governing territories, but Scotland isn’t. Maybe it should be, but it isn’t.
      See for yourself
      https://www.un.org/dppa/decolonization/en/nsgt

    31. wull says:

      Scotland is not a colony, and never has been. There is a certain English political narrative – by no means shared by all English people, but quite often influencing some people hazily and only semu-consciously – which pretends or presumes that Scotland was taken over by England in 1707, and therefore colonised. That often subliminal narrative has no basis in historical fact or in legal reality. There are (and have been for centuries) quite a few politicians who play to that narrative, and either presume it themselves or (and/or) want others – both within the UK and (often even more so) abroad – to presume it too. They thereby show their ignorance of the actual nature of the UK, and its history, even though they seek to govern it. They ought, simply on account of that crass and I would say culpable ignorance, to be disqualified from ever having any governmental role in the same UK. They are entitled to be Unionists if they so wish, and if that is what they believe in, but they have to know – and not only understand, but show that they understand – what the Union that underpins the United Kingdom actually is.

      The promotion of that false narrative can be traced back in a very real way to Edward I of England. Although it also precedes him, he is in a way the person who promoted it more ferociously and deliberately, and systematically, than anyone before him. He knew very well that it was a lie, and it was with deliberate intent that he propagated it. That lie continued to be propagated after him, and the idea that Scotland belonged to England became part of the political assumptions and bedded down in the political psyche of important and quite large sections of the English population. For many – including many in the English elites, especially its political class – they presumed that Edward’s project had finally been accomplished when the 1707 Union took place. But that is not what the agreement on which the UK was founded says, nor could it. The legal documents that brought the UK into existence show clearly that the Union of the two nations involved cannot be interpreted in that way.

      People like Nicola Sturgeon, who are so self-centred that they think history began with them, have not the slightest clue about all this. They don’t even know or subscribe to what can be described as the legally correct and indeed the typically Scottish narrative of the Union, which was very well known in my youth (and even more recently than that} throughout Scotland, including among those who would describe themselves as Scottish Unionists. The people who erected the Wallace Monument, so visible as you approach Stirling from the South, were almost all convinced Unionists. Their Unionism, in those days, did not mean or require any denial or watering down of their identity as Scots.

      Nicola’s appalling lack of the historical and legal realities is extraordinary and appalling for someone who claims to be the main proponent of Scottish independence. She is, by her own admission, a proponent of Scottish Nationalism. Funnily enough these Scottish Unionists of yore (actually not just 19th Century but more recent ones) often enough WERE Scottish Nationalists. In their own particular way, of course, but we should not be too quick to dismiss their views as inauthentic. They were fighting to maintain, and indeed insist on, the true nature of the Union. Something which too many modern Unionists are completely unable to do, because they too don’t know what it is. They are in fact not true Unionists but rather betrayers of the Union – that is, of what the Union actually was and is – instead of which they are embracing a new and extremely confused ideology which has no real substance to it. In that respect, they are ironically, but really and truly, very like Nicola S herself. On her part, she hates the word National and would like to have it removed from the name of the Party she leads. The unionists of yore were more nationalist than she is; indeed than she ever has been.

      My guess – and I admit it is a guess – is that she probably associates Scottish Nationalism with the Scottish male, and thus – in her mind – with male chauvinism, and even maleness in general. And that probably means she associates it with the thing, or things, that she hates most. Her enemy number one does not seem to be those that oppose or thwart Scottish Nationalism, but those who espouse, support and promote it – especially (again, just a guess) if they are men. Her agenda seems to me to be to create a new Scottish identity which has no connection to Scotland’s past, and which actually rejects and denies it. What she is trying to create looks not just like a new identity which all Scots will have to be straitjacketed into, in fact, but a new kind of humanity altogether. It will have no connection with any of that old stuff, which she regards as irrelevant, and so out of date you can relegate it to the Stone Age.

      Fundamentally, to achieve this kind of ideal, and bring into existence the New Scot that she imagines she is creating, she has to put Scotland and its past – that old Scotland that she in fact hates and despises – to the sword. George Buchanan, I believe, once described the study of history as the means through which our ancestors are restored to us, and we to them, or words to that effect. Nicola’s agenda strikes me as aiming to finish these ancestors off altogether, and put an unbridgeable gap between them and that generation of new – newly minted, newly created, historically mindless – creatures she wants to see roaming all over Scotland in the very near future. And that includes finishing off all of us old, fuddy-duddy Neanderthals who stand in her way, since we are in any case destined very soon to end up on that ancestral scrap-heap too. And, of course, that means you too, Alex.

      She’s quite a revolutionary, our Nicola. As in 1789, this is now Year 1. This is the New Start for humanity, and Nicola is waving her wand and making all things new.

      And that means the guillotine – and the bloodbath that went with it – is not far away.

      Brave New World, indeed…

    32. Hatuey says:

      I enjoyed Peter Bell’s article linked to above and I particularly like his sense of anger. We should all be angry about the position we are in.

      And I agree that we will never achieve independence without a head-on confrontation with the British State.

      For its part, the British State and its representatives are acting rationally towards us. We should never forget how much they depend on our taxes and resources.

      So far so good, but… (yes, there’s a “but” here too)

      “Haven’t you had enough of this shit? I know I have… It is time our elected representatives took a very much harder line.”

      UDI would be a realistic option if there was measurable majority support for independence. But the people of Scotland voted to be in the Union in 2014. We might have gained a few percentage points since then but not enough to go all in with UDI.

      As for a harder line, instead of blaming Sturgeon and the SNP all the time, isn’t it about time we attributed some blame to the exceptional Scottish people themselves?

      I know we are supposed to explain the lacklustre support for independence on the lack of leadership, propaganda, Nicola, the MSM, etc., etc., and yes, of course, they are factors, but what sort of blind fool would you need to be to think this post-Brexit Union offers any sort of positive future for you, your children, and grandchildren?

      For me that’s the biggest elephant in the room, even if it’s not the only one. The future for Scotland has never looked bleaker — why can’t more people see that?

      So, I guess, what we are all really waiting on is the thing that revolutionaries and progressives have spent their frustrated lives waiting on all through history; for the people (not the politicians) to come to their senses.

      You can’t rush these things but the way the economy is heading, well, who knows? Most of the big radical shifts in public opinion throughout history have occurred when times were hard.

      We could be independent sooner than you think.

    33. Hatuey says:

      Good comment, Wull. It seems odd today to think of enthusiastic Scottish unionists in the 19th century also being proud Scottish nationalists, but, as you suggest, it didn’t seem odd to them; because they believed the Union was a symbiotic partnership.

      How things have changed…

    34. Iain More says:

      Chas says:
      11 July, 2022 at 8:22 pm

      I watched Scotland play Argentina on Saturday at rugby. Scotland won. The ‘man of the match’ was awarded to Hamish Watson, who plays his rugby for Edinburgh. He is a proud Scot however he was born in England.
      There are posters on this site who would not permit him to vote in an Independence referendum?
      Why?

      ==============================================================

      Because he plays Rugby. Rugby Union being a hotbed of vidkun ("Quizmaster" - Ed)-ism.

    35. Breeks says:

      Hard to tell if this is a crime, a cry for help, or a bid for Tory Leadership….

      https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.standard.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fuk%2Fjamie-wallis-conservative-south-wales-land-rover-discovery-bridgend-b1011597.html

      When do we stop pretending any of this is government?

    36. Andy Ellis says:

      It looks as if Chas & Andy may have been put into moderation either that or they have been totally banned.

      In spite the best efforts of some to mischaracterise disagreement as abuse (a tactic we saw from yoons during indyref1 of course), it would appear not.

      Calling someone a nativist for believing swathes of the Scottish population should be disenfranchised because they aren’t Scottish enough would appear to be fair comment.

    37. Andy Ellis says:

      @McDuff 9.48 pm

      Nativists Nativists, why don`t` you just call us Jocks or Vermin they are the same labels as far as i` concerned.

      It’s a simple descriptor for people who believe the franchise should be decided on the basis of birth or ethnicity rather than residence. I don’t really care if you think it’s derogatory. If the hat fits….

      I ache for independence for my country and i and others have every right to be unhappy if thousands of English nationals settle in Scotland bringing their Westminster mentality and voting No in a referendum which they decidedly did in`14 and will do again if there is ever another one. No problem with Yes voters
      coming.

      Nobody is stopping you expressing your nativist views. you’re allowed to have them, just as those who disagree with you are allowed to think and say your views are regressive and nativist. It’s called democracy. How you think it is practicable to make windows in to people’s souls before “allowing” them to vote is beyond me. Surely those who are so keen to come to Scotland will happily confirm they support independence, then vote with their conscience at voting time. Or are you going to stand and look of their shoulder in the polling booth?

      Now you are obviously quite happy for an influx of No voters to pore across the border which is just a tad strange for someone who purports to support independence???

      You see, there you have it again. Nativists invariably can’t help themselves can they? Anyone who disagrees with their regressive views isn’t a “real” independence supporter, they only “purport” to support it. Sadly for you though “McDuff” I’m not one of those snivelling anonymous cowards hiding behind an anonymous moniker on the internet, so there are folk who know who I am, that I’m an Alba founder member, and that I’m not afraid to own my opinions, unlike the mostly anonymous fringe nativists in here. It’s not difficult to see why most of them feel the need to hide their identities given their regressive views of course.

    38. Alf Baird says:

      wull @ 1:57 am

      “Scotland is not a colony, and never has been.”

      Perhaps not constitutionally, but in most other respects the oppressive exploitative and degrading features of colonialism are very evident in Scotland’s case, and especially politically, economically, culturally and linguistically. There is also the accompanying psychological condition known as the ‘colonial mindset’ which helps explain why some of the native population refuse even their own liberation.

      It is perhaps worth noting that many former colonies, peoples and nations were handed treaties which were subsequently violated in order that the exploitation and oppression should continue. And where colonialism is allowed to continue, the oppressed people and nation concerned eventually perishes, according to postcolonial theory. Which is why decolonization and liberation is regarded as self-recovery of a people and their culture, rather more than what currency they may decide to use.

      https://cpb-us-w2.wpmucdn.com/wp.towson.edu/dist/b/55/files/2022/05/The-Socio-Political-Determinants-of-Scottish-Independence.pdf

    39. Scott says:

      “Calling someone a nativist for believing swathes of the Scottish population should be disenfranchised because they aren’t Scottish enough would appear to be fair comment.” – Ellis

      People not born in Scotland should be disenfranchised in a self-determination referendum (quack, quack, quack), not because they aren’t Scottish enough, but because they aren’t Scottish at all.

      Franchise restriction is lawful if based on National Registers (hatches, matches, dispatches)

      See – EUROPEAN COMMISSION FOR DEMOCRACY THROUGH LAW (VENICE COMMISSION)

      CODE OF GOOD PRACTICE ON REFERENDUMS

      1. Universal Suffrage

      1.1. Rule and exceptions

      Universal suffrage means in principle that all human beings have the right to vote. This right may, however, and indeed should, be subject to certain conditions:

      a. Age:

      the right to vote must be subject to a minimum age but must beacquired, at the latest, at the age of majority;

      b. Nationality:

      i. a nationality requirement may apply;
      ii. however, it would be advisable for foreigners to be allowed to vote in local referendums after a certain period of residence.

      c. Residence:

      i. a residence requirement may be imposed;

      ii. residence in this case means habitual residence;

      iii. a length of residence requirement may be imposed on nationals solely for local or regional referendums;

      iv. the requisite period of residence should be reasonable and, as a rule, should not exceed six months;

      v. it is desirable that the right to vote be accorded to citizens residing abroad.

      d. Deprivation of the right to vote:

      i. provision may be made for depriving individuals of their right to vote, but only subject to the following cumulative conditions:

      ii. it must be provided for by law;

      iii. the proportionality principle must be observed;

      iv. the deprivation must be based on mental incapacity or a criminal conviction for a serious offence;

      v. furthermore, the withdrawal of political rights or finding of mental incapacity may only be imposed by express decision of a court of law.

      1.2 Electoral Registers

      Fulfilment of the following criteria is essential if electoral registers are to be reliable:

      i. electoral registers must be permanent or refer to a register that is constantly updated (population register or register of births, marriages and deaths);

      ii. there must be regular up-dates, at least once a year. Where voters are not registered automatically, registration must be possible over a relatively long period;

      iii. electoral registers must be public;

      iv. there should be an administrative procedure – subject to judicial control – or a judicial procedure, allowing for the registration of a voter who was not registered; the registration should not take place as a result of a decision taken by the polling station on election day;

      v. a similar procedure should allow voters to have incorrect inscriptions amended within a reasonable time;

      vi. provision may be made for a supplementary register as a means of giving the vote to persons who have moved or reached statutory voting age since final publication of the register.

      http://www.venice.coe.int/webforms/documents/default.aspx?pdffile=CDL-AD(2007)008rev-cor-e

    40. Ruby says:

      Roger says:
      11 July, 2022 at 11:38 pm

      Are you winding me up Roger?

      No, I just get curious as to how people see things sometimes. If you believe the Tory leadership candidates were on TV ‘just to remind Scotland to know their place’, that’s what you believe.


      Ach Roger!

      That was just one suggestion as to why the BBC had these English politicians on prime time TV in Scotland pitching for votes when not even 0.29% of the British population will be able to vote. That would be around 0.02% in Scotland and that’s being very generous.

      Are these guys on a prime time ‘political show’ just for our entertainment or are they just there pitching to the 0.29% who might be able to vote.

      At least with other entertainment show like ‘X Factor’ ‘Strictly Come Dancing’ etc everyone gets a vote.

      The only thing I hear from these guys is ‘Scotland know your place – No IndyRef2 for you cos I say so. Perhaps things would be different if they sang a wee song or did a jig.

      PS Are you able to vote in the Tory leadership race Roger? I’m guessing you do.

    41. Ruby says:

      OMG It’s day two of ‘The Binfire of the Franchises’

      If you were to believe Andy Ellis you would think Wings was jam packed with these nasty regressive nativist Moonhowlers.

      Not sure it’s a very good ad for Wings but I don’t think Andy cares.

    42. Ruby says:

      OMG It’s day two of ‘The Binfire of the Franchises’

      When I say ‘It’s day two of ‘The Binfire of the Franchises’

      I talking about this week.

      It’ll be around day 200 of ‘The Binfire of the Franchises’ this year.

    43. Scott says:

      Ruby says:
      12 July, 2022 at 9:00 am

      OMG It’s day two of ‘The Binfire of the Franchises’

      If you were to believe Andy Ellis you would think Wings was jam packed with these nasty regressive nativist Moonhowlers.

      Not sure it’s a very good ad for Wings but I don’t think Andy cares.

      From ‘Catch 2022’

      Rev. Stuart Campbell says:
      6 July, 2022 at 12:48 pm

      Andy Ellis, Ruby: if either of you ever mentions the other by name (including any “clever” ways of doing so indirectly) again in any context whatsoever you’re banned. Clear? Not comment deleted, not pre-moderation, banned.

      I have HAD ENOUGH of this fucking playground shit.

      À la prochaine, Ruby.

    44. Daisy Walker says:

      Out yesterday, in Letham Perth – putting out leaflets for WAB launch at 7p Royal George Hotel, George St, Perth, Thursday 14th. Alex Salmond and Eva Comrie are the speakers, all welcome.

      So, we did the stall at the shops, bit of a mixed response there to be honest, and then we did a leaflet drop. Folk saw our Alba hats, and were coming up to us, and a VERY positive response round the doors for the event, and for what we are doing.

      Alba, as the safety net party is coming into its own. I sincerely hope the SNP find their mojo again for Indy, but if they don’t, they languish by their own efforts.

    45. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Daisy Walker (9.30) –

      Can you tell us any more about the ‘mixed response’?

      If you’d prefer not to, no worries, but your comment is intriguing.

    46. Daisy Walker says:

      Anyone with any connections in the inner cities of England?

      I want to know if tensions are running high and there is a danger of riots.

      If there is, Police Scotland would be expected to provide riot Police, in a mutual aid deal…. but since Scotland has to pay VAT on its Police Service, and the English Police Forces do not…. I would be expecting our political leaders to step in and negotiate a deal before they are deployed.

      I would also like a single ballpark figure for how much energy (oil, gas and electricity) England gets from Scotland (my guess is it is likely to be something like 60%).

      The reason being, an Independent Scotland (and leaders negotiating same) could (with that figure) publically announce that an Indy Scotland would continue to provide the xx% figure of energy that England currently gets from us, at a reasonable price, with the proviso that their politicians bring the robber barron energy companies to heal and cap the profits.

      This would ensure Scotland gets a fair price for its energy (big improvement on the current situation) and the people England have a lever to force their politicians to do something about the cost of living crisis.

      But more than that, it would put the reality of Scotland’s energy wealth so far into the middle of the field of play, that attempting to rubbish its existence would be very old news.

      That’s my thinking on it at any rate. Anyone see potential flaws. I’m away out just now but will look in later tonight.

    47. Daisy Walker says:

      Ian Brotherhood says:
      12 July, 2022 at 9:33 am

      @Daisy Walker (9.30) –

      Can you tell us any more about the ‘mixed response’?

      If you’d prefer not to, no worries, but your comment is intriguing.

      No problem Ian, that area in Perth has a fairly high level of Rangers supporters, and also drug addicts. The drug addicts can’t see past Nikla.

      In fairness, our stall was at the shops, so it is passing footfall and can vary from hour to hour. If that makes sense.

    48. Republicofscotland says:

      It looks Labour will try and force a VONC with regards to the Tory government, that could materialse this week.

      “LABOUR are preparing to force a confidence vote on Boris Johnson’s government, challenging Conservative MPs to oust the Prime Minister as they hold a leadership contest.

      The opposition will table the motion on Tuesday, with the aim of holding the vote the following day, according to party sources.

      Johnson said he would resign as Conservative leader after a long line of scandals but is clinging on to office as caretaker prime minister until a replacement is found in a move that has divided Tory MPs.”

      https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thenational.scot%2Fnews%2F20272352.labour-plan-confidence-vote-boris-johnsons-government-effort-oust-pm%2F

    49. Ruby says:

      Rev. Stuart Campbell says:
      6 July, 2022 at 12:48 pm

      Scott says:

      Andy Ellis, Ruby: if either of you ever mentions the other by name (including any “clever” ways of doing so indirectly) again in any context whatsoever you’re banned. Clear? Not comment deleted, not pre-moderation, banned.

      I have HAD ENOUGH of this fucking playground shit.

      À la prochaine, Ruby.

      I missed that comment. Looks like I’ll be banned.
      It could be you next Scott.

    50. Republicofscotland says:

      PM hopeful Penny Mordaunt whose already ruled out the possibility of a second indyref says her party has what it takes for her party to beat the SNP in Scotland.

      The SNP under Sturgeon’s tenure has betrayed the indy masses, however as much as I loathe Sturgeon I certainly wouldn’t vote for the Tories in Scotland, and I’m sure I’m not alone in my line of thinking.

      “Mordaunt said she knows “what it will take” to beat the SNP in Scotland having beaten Labour in Portsmouth to win her seat at Westminster.”

      https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thenational.scot%2Fnews%2F20272313.penny-mordaunt-mocked-claim-can-beat-snp-scotland%2F

    51. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Daisy Walker (9.45) –

      Thanks for that and yes, the ‘footfall’ effect does make sense.

      2012-14 we did regular street stalls on the Bridgegate in Irvine. It’s a pedestrianised stretch leading into the Rivergate shopping centre (which we weren’t allowed close to) and the busiest part of the High Street where a lot of the bus stops are clustered.

      I remember asking Richie Venton (SSP co-founder) why he travelled all the way down there from Glasgow after his work just to do these stalls – it turns out that that specific spot had one of the highest ‘footfalls’ in the whole of Scotland.

      Just goes to show – Edinburgh, Glasgow, Aberdeen etc may have much ‘busier’ streets overall, but there’s a lot more involved in assessing how to get closest to the people.

      😉

    52. Republicofscotland says:

      Leak at Torness nuclear power plant, dead bodies of birds found on nearby beach, people warned to stay out of the water, SEPA and the facility claim its a oil/fire suppressant leak.

      https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thenational.scot%2Fnews%2F20272199.east-lothian-scots-warned-stay-water-torness-substation-leak%2F

    53. Hatuey says:

      Anyone had a look at the “SAS death squad” stories that Panorama and the BBC just released? It looks like they were systematically murdering unarmed civilians in Afghanistan, often even kids.

      This all happened about ten years ago and we are finding out about it today because it was covered up at command level, etc.

      The sooner we separate ourselves from this bunch of war criminals, the better. The world will thank us for dismantling the atrocious UK state.

    54. Republicofscotland says:

      “Anyone had a look at the “SAS death squad” stories that Panorama and the BBC just released? ”

      Hatuey.

      From what I’ve read the British/US troops trained Afghani troops into special hit squads that would hunt down their own people who opposed US/UK intervention in Afghanistan. I can’t recall whether I read it on Declassified or Consortium news as it was a wee while ago.

    55. Breastplate says:

      “Anyone had a look at the “SAS death squad” stories that Panorama and the BBC just released?”

      But..but..but..we’re the good guys, we wouldn’t do things like that, we would never do things like that, nope, never ever, other people are the bad guys, it’s definitely not us, everything we do is for the sake of humanity and a better world for everyone, this is quite obviously not true, we are the good guys, not anyone else, just us….and the Americans, of course, fucking Russians!

    56. Stuart MacKay says:

      Hatuey, Republicofscotland, Breastplate

      Was this story given the green light to ensure that Ben Wallace never enters into any leadership race?

      If you combine that with the recent story of the paratroopers then there seems to be a serious lack of discipline in the British Army. That elite units are involved would indicate the rot may be across the board. No wonder Wallace, with this encouragement, decided to sit this one out.

      Given this, I think we can look forward to several years of infighting in Tory ranks.

    57. Republicofscotland says:

      Stuart MacKay.

      I’m under the impression that Ben Wallace decided not to enter the race for PM.

      Anyway the British army is one of only a few that allows sixteen year old’s to enlist. Teenage age soldiers have died in Afghanistan, Amnesty International HRW and Child Rights International have all slated the MoD for allowing child soldiers to enlist in the British army.

    58. Republicofscotland says:

      This is akin to Sir Keir Starmer becoming the leader of the Tory party, no one would notice any difference, he’d fit right in.

      “Callum Baird, managing editor of the pro-independence newspaper The National and the Glasgow Evening Times, is understood to be taking over as editor-in-chief of Newsquest Scotland, which includes pro-union sister title The Herald and Herald on Sunday.”

      Watch out for the Herald and the Sunday version produce as many not indy front pages and the National has on pro-indy front pages and all will get Mr Baird’s nod of approval.

      Mind you Baird is already well versed in this game, as the Evening Times is a pro-Labour party and the National is…well you decide.

      https://dailybusinessgroup.co.uk/2022/07/national-editor-to-take-over-union-backing-herald/

    59. Stoker says:

      The so-called elite SAS have been assassinating folk for decades. Folk only need look to ‘The Troubles’ in Northern Ireland to learn that they operated alongside members of organisations such as The UVF etc. Take a look into the story of The Miami Showband. A successful Irish pop band, with members from both persuasions, murdered by a joint UVF/Brit military operation.

      Then there was Gibraltar where SAS operatives killed, i think 3, unarmed PIRA operatives. The Brits, of course, held an inquest and the ruling, with no surprises, was that the SAS acted lawfully. The European Court of Human Rights had a slightly different finding. They said the whole plan was so flawed that lethal force was inevitable. No PIRA bomb was ever found.

      But as the saying goes: One man’s terrorist is another’s freedom fighter. And to quote another saying: All is fair in love and war. Or, if you prefer: Live by the sword die by the sword. There’s no getting away from the fact that London has been behind countless questionable military operations and tactics for hundreds of years.

    60. Republicofscotland says:

      Jesus f*ckin Christ, how far will this shit go before people say enough is enough.

      “The Church of England has said that there is “no official definition” of a woman. In a written reply to a question submitted to General Synod.”

    61. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Stuart MacKay (11.10) –

      Wallace’s campaign was always doomed – his foes would’ve had to do no more than point to this embarrassing episode in which he was pranked by Russian comedians pretending to be the Blue & Yellow nation’s Prime Minister. He fell for it and disclosed operational information. For that alone, he should’ve been fired.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOq4eR-YjYA

    62. James Che says:

      When a person from outside of Scotland calls Scots nativist, it just sounds sooo colonial of their mindset.
      Nativist caribbean or nativist jungle people, nativist Scots or nativist africans or indians whom do not think the same as us, The new incomers whom have taken over their country,

      They must be re- educated to think like us. The nativist must be made to feel bad about their ethinicity, it must be erased, bought down mentally and put in their place and reprogrammed.
      As he whom acts like a coloniser says,
      He is here to re- educate us nativists in Scotland, to tell us we are synthetically colonised by mental oppression, but not on paper officially,

      And the same rhetoric is applied to nativist Scots, as other natives, you need our release permission papers to be free natives, other wise you will not be recognised around the world as free people.

    63. Breeks says:

      I really, really, don’t care who the next Tory chief is, but if, in some perverse through-the-looking-glass reality, I had aspirations to be chief of the Tories, I’d be skipping this bus and waiting for the next.

      Boris Johnson went too soon, and the UK Government still has to decide on which International Treaty it’s going to breach over the Northern Irish Protocol or the Good Friday Agreement. So the next Tory hopeful probably has Rogue State / International Pariah Status / EU Trade War items already looming in their “in” tray.

      Whoever loses the lottery and becomes the next PM probably shouldn’t see it as a long term career move. On the up side, you may live on for decades in pub quizzes as in “Who was the last PM of the United Kingdom?”

    64. Stuart MacKay says:

      Ian Brotherhood

      I had forgotten about that, thanks. Makes you wonder why Truss is still ploughing on though. I guess after the clown in chief, humiliating yourself on the international stage is no impediment to high office in the UK.

    65. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Stuart MacKay –

      Truss has ‘Head Girl appeal’. Tories like that, and so do Americans.

      🙂

    66. Roger says:

      @Daisy Walker
      England produces 72.6% of total UK electricity, Scotland 16.7%, Wales 7.5%, N Ireland 3.2%
      Each CONSUMES
      England 80.9%, Scotland 9.7%, Wales 6.5%, N Ireland 2.9%
      (Figures for 2020)
      So England consumes 8.3 percentage points more than it produces and Scotland consumes 7 percentage points less than it produces. (or, in %, England consumes 11.4% more than it produces and Scotland produces
      42% more than it consumes)

    67. Dan says:

      @ Roger

      Not sure if your figures take into account import and export figures to and from various euro connections.
      Scroll to right of this linked page to see gauges on those connections.

      https://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

    68. Mark Boyle says:

      Ian Brotherhood says:
      12 July, 2022 at 1:21 pm

      @Stuart MacKay –

      Truss has ‘Head Girl appeal’. Tories like that, and so do Americans.

      ?

      She’s more like the wet liberal teacher who wants to be the kids’ friend and as such is played for a fool every time.

      She has zero chance of winning – once everyone is reminded of the Lexie Hill incident on Question Time her campaign is finished (Diane Abbott was also made to look a soundbite bleating moron, but that’s par for the course in her case). Getting your arse handed back to you by some kid that’s not even done her first certificated exams is one of those pratfalls the public never forgives.

      The Moggster’s endorsed Truss, but that’s probably his daft idea of “being a gentleman” or something as inane. The two barely agreed on anything, so why the fk back her unless it was just to get the press off his back and perhaps do her chances some damage by making her look more extreme.

    69. twathater says:

      I cannot believe how anyone would voluntarily sign up to join the army when they can look at the non support all the parties of government don’t provide

      The tories love to promote themselves as the logical choice for law and order, yet they are mired in unbelievable corruption and that is only the stuff we KNOW about NO THANKS to their non doms and state broadcaster

      Labour love to promote themselves as the party of the working class and socialism , yet Sir Keir demanded that Labour officials don’t attend picket lines and BLIS spent £millions of pounds fighting an equal pay deal for women in the courts

      The SNP or as it is known the Secretive Nonce Party loves to promote themselves as the party of independence , but the head pervert cannot mention independence without boaking , she much prefers finding out about the sexual activity of minors, her fellow deviants hate even the thought of independence because the gravy bus would have engine failure

      Just how stupid are people

    70. Daisy Walker says:

      @ ‘
      Roger says:
      12 July, 2022 at 1:49 pm

      @Daisy Walker
      England produces 72.6% of total UK electricity, Scotland 16.7%, Wales 7.5%, N Ireland 3.2%
      Each CONSUMES
      England 80.9%, Scotland 9.7%, Wales 6.5%, N Ireland 2.9%
      (Figures for 2020)
      So England consumes 8.3 percentage points more than it produces and Scotland consumes 7 percentage points less than it produces. (or, in %, England consumes 11.4% more than it produces and Scotland produces
      42% more than it consumes)’

      Hello Roger, that is fantastic info, can you recall the source by chance, and can I confirm it would be accurate to state,

      ‘Scotland produces over 42% more electricity over and above her own requirements and this 42% gets appropriated by England.

      In return, Scottish home owners getting the highest heating bills in Europe.’

    71. Dan says:

      With regard to energy and the geographic areas it is classed as being generated in. It may also be worth looking into where the source fuel used in certain specific generation processes actually comes from.
      As per link above, at this moment 45% (15.2GW) of the GB Grid power is being produced by Combined Cycle Gas Turbines, but is all that gas being burnt sourced in the same geographic areas as the power stations, or is it piped in from say those 6000 square miles of stolen seas…

      https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2017/01/scotlands-stolen-seas-technical-explanation/

      And similarly, just where does all that petrol and diesel being used in England actually originate from…

    72. Daisy Walker says:

      @ Dan 8.35pm

      How many Combined Cycle Gas Turbines does Scotland have? If any? Anyone know.

    73. Dan says:

      Think it’s now just the smallish output one in Peterhead. So nearly all of the gas burnt in CCGT stations is in Kingdom of England.
      But as per the percentage of resources Scotland has in the UK, approximately 65% of gas reserves are in Scotland (I presume that figure won’t include those reserves in the stolen seas…)

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peterhead_Power_Station

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_natural_gas_power_stations_in_the_United_Kingdom

    74. Dan says:

      Worth re-reading on grid connection charges for electricity generation.

      https://thecommongreen.scot/2016/09/12/grasping-the-grid/

    75. Dan says:

      Some gas figures in this article on Mossmorran stating close to 30% of gas used in UK comes in through St Fergus. Note that there may be some gas from Norwegian territorial sector included in that stat.

      https://www.shell.co.uk/about-us/projects-and-sites/shell-fife-ngl/about-fife.html

      It’s worth noting that England also directly imports a fair bit of gas from Norway via the Easington – Langeled pipeline.

      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Langeled_pipeline



    Comment - please read this page for comment rules. HTML tags like <i> and <b> are permitted. Use paragraph breaks in long comments. DO NOT SIGN YOUR COMMENTS, either with a name or a slogan. If your comment does not appear immediately, DO NOT REPOST IT. Ignore these rules and I WILL KILL YOU WITH HAMMERS.




    ↑ Top