Chaos and conspicuous lounging
So, British politics, eh? We’re basically on strike until things make at least an iota of sense, because there’s no point in attempting political analysis right now when events can overtake you before you’ve finished typing a sentence.
But let’s just have a quick recap on what we know.
– The opposition won a vote last night aimed at preventing a no-deal Brexit by forcing the Prime Minister to request another extension (the third or fourth so far depending how you count) from the EU. The government has withdrawn the whip from all its own MPs who supported the vote, leaving it several dozen short of a majority (and theoretically ending the expensively-bought influence of the DUP).
– Tory peers in the House Of Lords plan to block this legislation by filibustering it. If they fail, the Prime Minister may seek instead to have the Queen refuse to give the legislation royal assent.
– If the legislation passes, nobody knows whether the Prime Minister will abide by it. The government has refused to commit to obeying the law.
– If the legislation succeeds and the Prime Minister is forced to ask the EU for a further extension, nobody knows whether the EU will agree. There’s no obvious justification for it – the UK Parliament has had three and a half years to solve Brexit and failed, it’s not clear how another three or six months would help.
– The Prime Minister claims to be actively pursuing a new deal with the EU. Countless sources within both the government and the EU have revealed that this isn’t true, and that no new proposals to solve the backstop have been offered.
– The Prime Minister, who has been in office approximately six weeks and who this week announced outside Downing Street that he didn’t want to hold a general election, has declared his wish to hold a general election, in effect calling a vote of no confidence in himself.
– But having spent the last two years constantly demanding a general election and proclaiming that it would solve all ills, Labour will apparently NOT support the Prime Minister in voting for one (although this position changes from hour to hour), making it highly unlikely that it’ll secure the necessary two-thirds majority.
– This is because the Tories currently lead by 10-12 points in opinion polls and most analysis shows them winning a majority, either alone or with The Brexit Party. However, the situation is so fluid that because of the vagaries of the UK’s electoral system, another inconclusive hung parliament is also a real possibility.
– As far as anyone can tell, Labour’s plan is to try to force a general election but only after the Prime Minister has achieved an extension from the EU. Nobody is very clear on when this prospective election would take place, and in particular whether it would be before or after 31 October.
– Seemingly the rationale for this is that asking for an extension would severely damage the Tories in the eyes of Leavers, and split the Brexit vote between them and The Brexit Party. But the Remain vote is also split between Labour, the Lib Dems, the SNP and others, and significant portions of those parties’ voters actually back Brexit.
– The Lib Dems have refused to participate in any anti-Brexit alliance which involves Jeremy Corbyn even briefly becoming caretaker Prime Minister. Corbyn, as leader of the official Opposition, has refused to step aside.
– Nobody knows what Brexit policy either the Tories, Labour or the Lib Dems would campaign on in any general election. Would there be another referendum? What options would be on the ballot paper? Nobody will say.
– Labour’s stated position (at least the last we heard) is for a vote “with credible options for both sides including the option to remain”, which appears to open up the possibility of a referendum with three, four or more options – meaning that the winning one would almost certainly have secured less than 50%.
– If the Tories win an election before 31 October, any prior legislation blocking a no-deal Brexit would be effectively null and void and could be overturned by the new administration. If they win an election after 31 October, they could cancel any extension granted by the EU or simply stall until the new deadline and enact a no-deal Brexit on the new date.
– A court in Scotland is currently hearing an appeal on a move to block the government’s plans to suspend Parliament for five weeks, although currently it’ll still be closed for most of that time anyway while all the UK parties hold their autumn conferences to decide what their policies are.
We think those are the basics. We’re off to the park.
I find it all rather entertaining in it’s ridiculousness.
Heard also that if it passes the Lords and goes for Royal Assent, Johnson can advise the Queen not to give assent.
Good article.
No-one has (as far as I have seen) explained how the moves made by the Opposition to create legislation to stop No Deal prevents Johnson winning a majority and then repealing it anyway.
That’s the court case which Dorothy found against Cherry and Co. But as the Herald says, something I forgot:
“ In 2018, Lord Doherty also dismissed a legal challenge brought by Green MSP Andy Wightman and others on whether the UK could unilaterally revoke Article 50.
In that case, his judgment was overturned on appeal at the Court of Session and went on to the Supreme Court and European Court of Justice where Mr Wightman won. ”
So we’ll see what the appeal comes to when it goes to the Inner Court, which is likely to be tomorrow.
This is a surprise, to me at least and something else to be added to the list.
link to twitter.com
“Heard also that if it passes the Lords and goes for Royal Assent, Johnson can advise the Queen not to give assent.”
Ah yes, forgot that one. Added.
Just saw Ross Thomson- apparently a Tory MP setting the PM up to a prepared speech.
How to ingratiate oneself.
Then again, might not be such a surprise after all if the idea is to run rungs round Dominic Cummings and Johnson and making them so dizzy that their legs buckle under them.
As good a plan as any other I think LOL.
“This is a surprise, to me at least and something else to be added to the list.”
WTF is the point of that? If the Tories win they can still overturn any anti-no-deal legislation.
@Rev. Stuart Campbell
Precisely.
[…] Wings Over Scotland Chaos and conspicuous lounging So, British politics, eh? We’re basically on strike until things make at least an […]
Thanks for a very concise explanation and recap for whats happening in the Soap Opera of WM, like Eastenders everyone is arguing with each other and its tiresome to watch.
No mention of the SNP either because thats another Soap Opera, more Take the High Road, which will need a recap of its own. And it will just be another Repeat.
For some inexplicable reason, the theme tune from Soap is playing in my head. 😎
All of these Tory shenanigans were meant to do was keep the Tories in control in Westminster with a majority (albeit with DUP making up the shortfall). The well being of the country has had nothing to do with anything they’ve done for years.
Now, they’ve lost the one thing that really mattered to them and that they were willing to let the UK go down the drain in pursuit of, all along.
“He would see this country burn to be king of the ashes” could as easily have been said of Boris as of Littlefinger.
Labour will procrastinate on everything and the Liberal Democrats will do what they always do which is pretend not to be Tories until the last minute
When a GE comes if the Tories are short of a few seats for overall majority the DUP will be under the double decker and the Lib Dems will *reluctantly* force themselves to *assist* the *country* for the sake of *unity* with Jo Swindle’s nose firmly lodged up Boris Johnson’s Number 10 orifice
By the time this happens the British army will be as conspicuous as traffic wardens on England’s streets and mayhem will be occurring the length and breadth of Northern Ireland
Orange marches will be curtailed in Scotland with the OO threatening to arm themselves accompanied by attacks on Mosques and Churches, all in all back to the sixties
There was a lot of good out of tune music back then, maybe they’ll play it on the helicopter fly bys as they enforce the curfews
I don’t know if this is official as it was said at a rally on August 9th, but Corbyn has said he is open to the proposed caretaker PM not being him.
Aye Macart – remember the voiceover with the music? – “Confused? You will be!” 🙂
Remember that old Chinese curse “May you live in interesting times”…..Well it’s come to pass…Westminster today reminds me of that comedy series that used to be on the telly…”Soap”
Old Bercow cuts off the Chancellor for his opening remarks that are ‘out of order’ A party political broadcast. 🙂
That was strong!
Neil Mac @ 12:59pm:
What do you mean? At best, this is a temporary sticking plaster till someone makes an actual decision about the way ahead.
And that’s if, as the article suggests, the Tories don’t win an election and overturn it anyway.
@Dr Jim
I’d have to think that the price the Lib Dems must demand for a coalition with the Tories would be a second EU referendum.
Would the Tories be willing to pay that price?
Jings ! Another warning to the Chancellor! What a hero.
Bercows taking no shit!
PS:
Aye the linesman Ross remembered his wee script to feed in a easy question to Boris.
Rees-Mogg’s career is going into recline.
If by any route we end up an election then the Tories will romp home and we will be back to square one.
This is why the focus needs to be on Independence. The Tory/Brexit party will be in charge for many years to come.
Hamish100 said at 12:52 pm
“Just saw Ross Thomson- apparently a Tory MP setting the PM up to a prepared speech.
How to ingratiate oneself.”
I went delving into the dusty vaults of Twitter and found this:
Ross Thomson in Aberdeen in 2014 with the Saviour of the Union.
No eggs were harmed in the making of this Selfie.
link to tinyurl.com
Moggy has the right idea, just lie down and wait, its coming our way anyway. Brexit will now arrive, either by Johnsons way or Corbyns way neither of which will benefit Scotland. Scotland must now stand and look after its own interests as they are Today. and not in your fathers, grandfathers way, and regardless of who won the war. Tories are in a mess but will select characters from Brexit to replace the last Tories with a sense of decency. . and with the aid of the MSM will win the next Election. The whole world is watching the chaos in London and the oncoming horrors of an ultra right wing government taking power in the UK. Time for Scotland to shut the door on them and the people of Scotland to vote for their children’s future and not for those who lived in a different world and are no longer here.
.
Stuart Campbell is the best forensic journalist in the country.
Now, with that hoot of a hilarious Mogg-Graph at the top of this article, the Rev is one of the most enjoyable scribes to read and study.
Gaun yersel big man 🙂
Here’s an interesting one:
link to gov.scot
Rev… You missed another howler:
Boris can go to the EU, ask for an extension to Brexit, as WM legislation may require him to, yet still force a hard exit through on October 31st by vetoing his own request – all 28 members, which still includes the UK, need to approve such.
Clootie says at 1:12 pm
If by any route we end up an election then the Tories will romp home and we will be back to square one.
This is why the focus needs to be on Independence. The Tory/Brexit party will be in charge for many years to come.
Exactly why the SNP should abandon thoughts of IndyRef2 and make the next UK GE a defacto poll on Indy.
This tawdry government has just cracked open the war chest and is spending like a drunk sailor. £billions.
Election mode: A veritable money forest has been discovered maybe even a few Barnett consequential crumbs for North of the wall.
What Al-Stuart just said.
I said to my wife the other day, wouldn’t it be interesting if the news was just that? Actual news of actual events i.e. of things that have come to pass and not endless speculation based on conjecture?
I think i’ll just read a weekly summary of the news for the time being.
Park sounds good
I am wistfully reminiscing here of the halcyon days of the Maybot’s ‘Strong and Stable’ Government.
Ah well…..
£1.3Bn to the Scots Barnett
Plus another £130M to Scots farmers due to ‘losing out on the EU allocation last time’ 🙁
Aye the sods in WM diverted it elsewhere so it’s our money back.
It’s Rees-Mogg imagining himself in the portrait scene from Titanic, as he dreams of himself as Kate Winslett on his chaise lounge being drawn by Leonardo Dicaprio.
Thepnr
I believe the Lib Dems will demand publicly and do the deal for power privately in exchange for a public fudge if they get the chance of government, their record of dropping everything they say they stand for in order to get that government seat is well known and remember Ms Swinson was there before, but this time she’d get a shot at deputy head girl and not just Nick Clegg’s bag carrier, her ego and her mouth will slather at the very thought of it
The cash the Tories are offering to splash around is the money they’re hoping not to pay to the EU, and the money they’re offering to Scottish farmers is as @call me dave says
the money they scammed them out of previously except that was actually £160 million so still £30 million short
You can bet your boots this splash a cash deal will only happen once if it happens at all
The Member for the 18th Century looks quite at ease in the image above. It should be titled ‘Reclining Ineptitude’ and sold as a framed print in the HoC Gift Shop.
A few disparate musings.
1. At least Northern Ireland can try to get a Parliament again, so there’s that which is nice.
2. I think the Tory seat projection is a bit overoptimistic and a hung Parliament with Lib Dems as Kingmakers a strong possibility. Equally (actually MORE)likely is Jo Swinson losing her seat. It would be utter chaos as Lib Dems tried to sort out the government and also a new leader. It would be funny though.
3. If there is a GE I reckon SNP will get all but 2-3 Scottish seats. Not sure what this will mean as current policy seems to be “We want independence and we want to be in the EU so we’ll abandon our independence aims to keep the UK in the EU which removes our main justification for independence.”
4. The danger is people no longer care if we stay in or leave. I mean obviously they care, but fatigue sets in and people just want it over and done with one way or tother. Enforced apathy may have been the long game here
“robertknight says:
4 September, 2019 at 1:24 pm
Exactly why the SNP should abandon thoughts of IndyRef2 and make the next UK GE a defacto poll on Indy.”
Would never wash. Can’t say it’s fair if you have one option for independence and 4-5 against which would split the anti independence vote. Electoral Comission would never buy it and in fairness I think with good reason.
John McDonnell slaughtering Sajid Javid in Westminster over the governments spending plans. It’s a bloodbath!
Boris Johnson Is Planning A Series Of Extreme Measures In The Coming Weeks To Force Through Brexit
link to buzzfeed.com
—————–
Stu’s covered most of these, but Wickham’s list has a few more possible Tory tactics:
Attempting to disrupt a Commons debate on Northern Ireland power-sharing due on Sept. 9, a day which could be used by rebels to attempt to delay Brexit. It is described by Johnson allies as a “time bomb” set for them in the final weeks of Theresa May’s premiership.
Determining whether Johnson would be breaking the law by ignoring any successful rebel legislation or refusing to resign in the event he lost a vote of no confidence.
Using a variety of mechanisms, including a potential budget, to create new Commons debates and further reduce time for rebels to act.
Using the prorogation of Parliament to “kill the bill” by rebel MPs and force them to table it again after the Queen’s Speech on Oct. 14.
Creating new bank holidays to prevent the House of Commons from being recalled during the prorogation period.
Filibustering any bill by rebel MPs attempting to force Johnson to delay Brexit when it reaches the House of Lords.
Ennobling new pro-Brexit peers as a last resort to kill any such bill in the Lords.
Exploring what the consequences would be if Johnson advised the Queen not to give royal assent to any legislation passed by Parliament delaying Brexit.
—————
The bank holidays one in particular has the potential to make the next two months even more psychedelic, especially if they go with the ‘unpopulated area’ approach mentioned in the Buzzfeed piece:
“Parliamentary expert Joe Armitage says the Banking and Financial Dealings Act 1971 stipulates that the government could ask the Queen to create a new bank holiday — or even a local bank holiday in an unpopulated area of the UK — that would thereby prevent Parliament from sitting. This proposal was looked at by Downing Street.”
A few bank holidays declared for a bit of moorland. That’ll rescue the UK’s international reputation, I’m sure.
Jewish festival of Succot.
WM says Election date is now 15th instead of 14th BUT
From WoS twitter:
Oh dear. Who is going to tell them it lasts two days with the second (on 15th) having identical rules to the first?
I think it is worth noting that Johnson in answering a question about whether he would obey the law answered by saying:
He will obey the CONSTITUTION and the law.
Duck and dive, twist and turn, obfuscate, prorogue, duck and cover, hide and seek, clutch at straws……..anything to ensure a hard brexit and protect those off shore accounts.
kapellmeister @ 1.11 pm
We always knew Really-Smugg to be prone to lying.
Just sayin’…. Ireland and the EU have the luxury and comfort of the unambiguous constitutional clarity of the backstop, and haven’t been required to budge from their position or compromise an inch.
Scotland could, and should, have its own constitutional backstop whereby Westminster is required to provide us with details of how it gets around the unaltwrable red line of Scotland’s sovereign rejection of Brexit.
It cannot do it, neither resolve the Irish Backstop nor overrule Scotland’s constitutional sovereignty. Brexit thus invites a referendum on Irish Unity, and the removal of Scotland from the UK’S Brexit calculations.
… Or lieing, prone.
Guys, I think that if we calmly walk through that door and close it behind our back, Scotland can be independent tomorrow.
Just walk away and don’t turn back.
They’ll be so busy eating each other out that nobody over the border will notice.
This way, lads and lassies.
Martin@1:58
Would never wash. Can’t say it’s fair if you have one option for independence and 4-5 against which would split the anti independence vote. Electoral Comission would never buy it and in fairness I think with good reason.
Which is why the threshold for Indy is >50% of votes cast AND >50% of WM seats to SNP. (Greens sit this one out).
The EC can go whistle as to where the other 49% of votes/seats goes, as the threshold is met no matter how you carve the cake.
As I said on the previous thread, ‘Yes’ got 45% in 2014, SNP got 50% in 2015 and ‘Remain’ 62% in 2016.
If the SNP can’t get over a line of >50%/>50% in the current shambles then it’s wishful thinking that they’ll manage in an IndyRef2 scenario where, if granted, the establishment will make damned sure we lose by more than 10% the difference.
We need the SNP to go for Indy whilst we’re still in the EU, so that the EU can ‘keep a light on’.
Post Brexit, you just watch WM suspend Holyrood under emergency legislation for the ‘good of the country’. Where your Section 30 Order then?
Not raining in Bath then?
Robertknight, I completely agree we should push for independence now. I don’t see a multi option vote which is not specific to independence question (even if SNP say a vot for them is a vote for indy) ever being accepted as valid by anyone at all. Not UKgov, not EU, not UN. UDI would have more validity. I’m more concerned that SNP has had mandate for indyref2 for 2 years and is still talking about leaving it a year or more.
jfngw 1.39
“It’s Rees-Mogg imagining himself in the portrait scene from Titanic, as he dreams of himself as Kate Winslett on his chaise lounge being drawn by Leonardo Dicaprio”
You should be prorogued for putting that image in our head.
@ dadsarmy 1.17pm
That is interesting – for the Queen to prorogue Holyrood it would be a First Minister requesting it – not a minister of the crown. Is how I understand it?
How and ever – the Civil Contingencies Act – the Queen appoints any person she sees fit to rule in any region of the UK. Queen trumps a Jock.
We would be very unwise to get caught up in all this Westminster / Court drama.
Lets look to motive and to what we know.
The millionaires and billionaires in all the unionist parties, and the Establishment of the UK who have accumulated the wealth of the Spice Trade, the Opium Trade to China, the Slave Trade and the asset stripping of entire continents of the Colonial days of Empire – do not want to be subjected to the EU Tax Haven Legislation.
Scotland is the cash cow and England cannot afford to lose it.
No Deal – leads to riots and chaos – leads to state of emergency – leads to closing down Holyrood and shuts up the Jocks.
None of this has changed – regardless of the drama at Westminster.
and the clock ticks down to 31/10/19 regardless.
None of the Unionist parties could, would or should be trusted to honour a S30 agreement. Their dealings over the Irish Border show that loud and clear. It would be a worthless piece of paper. Pursuing it NOW given their antics, is thoroughly pointless.
In a GE our 16/17 year olds are disenfranchised as would be many of our remaining EU residents. Polls are pretty much 50/50 for Indy without them.
This we know. If Devo Max had been ever been on the ballot paper – it would have received a 2/3 majority vote.
I don’t know what the SNP – putting the constitution at the heart of the campaign – should look like, but something that enshrines/protects Holyrood and our Claim of Right should be at the heart of it, and I’m really not sure how that could even be delivered.
Just thinking aloud folks, in case anyone/everyone disagrees.
And all of this hastens Scotland along our Road to Independence =)
Maybe its time I got prorogued as well for an unsuitable image.
link to twitter.com
Macart @ 12.57pm
Haha that made me laugh, it’s also like an episode of Arrested Development. One thing’s for certain this is a total farce.
This guy certainly has a way with political montage.
link to twitter.com
Oh right, 1.45 meant today not tomorrow for the request to hear the appeal to go to the Inner House. I did wonder why so slow!
“Our appeal to the Inner House will be heard tomorrow.”
link to twitter.com
and there was this one, which I thought too from David Johnston QC who heard the case in the Outer Court:
“I tweeted this out this morning because it was always pretty clear to me that the Outer House would find against us – as pretty much every journo I spoke to in advance of the decision will confirm. But it really, genuinely, doesn’t matter. The law is not about sentiment.”
and
“Second, in Wightman [unilaterally revocable A50] the Outer House found our case was not even arguable. Yet we won. There really is no need to be discouraged.”
link to twitter.com
Martin@2:28
No expert, but if SNP publish manifesto which clearly states that a vote for them is a vote to return to Scotland the status of an Independent, Sovereign State then the EC nor anyone else can do damn all about it.
What was on Screaming Lord Such’s manifesto? Free tickets to the moon? The EC did sod all about the Monster Raving Loony Party so why would the SNP fall foul?
Rees-Mogers is, this afternoon, to bring forward a Bill to make every day in the calendar 31st October so that, come what we, the UK will leave the EU on 31st October.
Well, it’s no worse than some of the totally absurdity that’s already coming out of WM!!
*may*
@Daisy Walker
Well, possibly, I did know the FM has royal prerogatives, just not what they were. But she seems to have them in devolved areas including as it says, EU competencies. It’s interesting, maybe this Cherry prorogue case is another win/win!
We seem to be back in the 17thC with a bluffing, blustering Old Etonian duffer with a sense of entitlement replacing a Stewart King with a sense of entitlement in defying parliament.
Will parliament raise it’s own troops not sworn to the monarch? Will Boris die in a hail of slingshot leading his forces in a doomed charge?
Will Polis Scotland be forced to send officers south in an attempt to arrest a Prime Minister and drag him to Bar-L?
Will Charles get himself accidentally beheaded?
Anything seems possible. At least Churchill’s Biographer knows enough history to avoid repeating it, or does he? One rather suspects he blustered through his degree as well.
Capella @ 2.24 pm
Not raining in Bath then?
_______
But it’s ALWAYS wet in bath …
(Sorry. Thanks for the great feed!)
Meanwhile the modern British Government has itself brought about that which countless incarnations past strove mightilly to prevent: the unification of the Continent against us.
Except its worse, the Irish are largely free so we have to watch our Western Flank as well and of course the Scots to the North are getting uppity and muttering about a betrayal of the Treaty of Union.
Churchill’s ancestor the first Duke of Marlborough earned his status by winning the Battle of Blenheim during the War of the Austrian Succession. Britain had intervened to prevent too much unity under one crowned family. It was otherwise not our fight.
If Napoleon had not created the Continental System expressly to frustrate British trade we might have left him and the Russians to fight it out and not opened that front in the Spanish Peninsula where Arthur Wellesley became another general to earn ennoblement on the Continent.
I wonder if it has dawned on the DUP that they are now superfluous and the money will stop flowing in. I suspect a working majority for the Tories will see that border in the Irish Sea.
Speaker Bercow :
The Queen’s consent not required for the bill under consideration this afternoon. He says so after taking advice.
Challenged by some MP’s and says will reflect further but comfortable to proceed.
Bercow gets a bit annoyed with so many points of order and gently rebuffs them all. Yet another POO (point of order)
He calls at long last Hilary Benn…Phew!
I like Bercow he knows his brief!
Soap , smiley thing,
Me too.
For the younger ones here, you need to watch one episode.
m.youtube.com/watch?v=YVffO-mNLdE
Muscleguy @ 3.02 pm
At least Churchill’s Biographer knows enough history to avoid repeating it, or does he? One rather suspects he blustered through his degree as well.
_____
Points of fact:
1 In his biography of Churchill, Johnson cites that during WWII, Stalingrad was taken by the Germans … (Seems this trait of being ‘economical with the actualite’ is a trait.)
2 He was notorious for being ill-prepared for tutorials during his stint as a Classics undergraduate at Balliol College, Oxford. When he did turn up, he would not answer the tutor’s questions but rather ‘read’ from a blank sheet of A4 which he had brought with him, spouting the usual wiffle-waffle. He duly failed one year and was only re-appointed to his course on the personal plea of one of his tutors with which (reluctantly) fellow staff acquiesced.
My source for the 2nd point? My father-in-law was one of his tutors when he was at Oxford where he combined his lack of knowledge and preparedness with the sense of entitlement of Bullingdonism. (The habit of trashing things also seems to be a particularly unpleasant habit of Johnson Minor.)
Tories apparently returning the money they stole from Scottish farmers and now tweeting they want congratulations for this. Remember next time you’re burgled and the culprit is caught, they should not be prosecuted but thanked if you get you goods back.
I don’t believe the Electoral Commission has any say on what parties put in their manifestos, that’s not their role. They, in theory anyway, are supposed to ensure elections are run fairly.
They don’t even have the power to change a referendum question, just comment on the wording.
Having another look at Nicola Sturgeons “strange” tweet that seems to imply that a vote for a General Election should be supported by Labour immediately after the bill to be debated today becomes law.
It’s strange because to do so risks a Tory government being elected before 31st Oct and then simply throwing today’s bill out and going for a no deal anyway.
It’s also strange because Labours best chance of winning a General Election is to humiliate Johnson even further by having him beg the EU for an extension until Jan 31st 2020.
That would be a step too far for him and I suspect he’d fall on his sword rather than do that. Here’s the tweet from Nicola Sturgeon.
1/ Not allowing Johnson to cut and run for an election simply as a tactic to force through a no deal Brexit is one thing – and why opposition right to insist on passage of anti no deal Bill, BUT…
2/ …it’s starting to feel like Labour doesn’t want an election at all…and leaving this PM in place knowing he’ll try every trick in book to get what he wants would be irresponsible. Opposition must get Bill through and then seek to force election BEFORE Parliament prorogued.
link to twitter.com
The question is though, is this really so “strange”. Well maybe not, maybe there is method in the apparent madness!
A General Election is very likely to be part of any plan B that Nicola Sturgeon has for another Independence referendum you would think, I mean is there anything else? Maybe her support for a General Election now revolves around that and the earlier the better for her purposes.
Maybe though it’s a double bluff? Like I said yesterday, the purpose being to confuse Johnson/Cummings as to what the opposition are really up to. It’s what I’d do in this situation, totally confuse them and have them squirming meantime.
I have no idea if it’s any of these and am just musing, in fact it probably isn’t and she simply wants a GE now LOL.
Confused? – You will be.
Credit to mumsyhugs and Macart for the reference to “Soap” 🙂
The SNP intends to legally ironclad their referendums bill which is making its way through Holyrood now, as far as I understand it the SNP will name a date for an Independence referendum apply for a section 30 order and if that is refused (which is in no way certain it will be refused) the referendum will proceed with Scottish court legal ruling using the Claim of Right as precedent which has already been passed by Westminster, and as I also understand it that will be enough to satisfy UN criteria on self determination followed by EU acceptance of legality
This information is what I’ve been told, not what I know is provable fact
There are some claiming a section 30 order was previously denied by Theresa May, that as far as I’m aware is not accurate either, the FM only spoke of it and Theresa May said she would refuse IF a request came forward but the Scottish government didn’t formally request one, it was the media who leapt to that happy assumption and broadcast it thus, and naturally everybody believed it, now it’s possible I may be wrong I hope not, but I can find no record of a section 30 order being requested since the original 2014 referendum
If I am correct I’m reminded of the FMs words at the time when she said “This position will *prove* to be unsustainable”
If any of this is even near the mark I can understand why the SNP is not making a fuss about Independence right now and concentrating their noise on Brexit to get the 31st October out of the way one result or another then the Independence noise will come once Scotland has seen the SNP has done everything they can to fix problem 1 then they’ll move on to problem 2
Once the remain voters but not Independence voters out there see the EU option they voted for lost the only option for them must be to return to the EU by voting YES to Independence
Well we hope?
Proud Cybernat says:
4 September, 2019 at 2:58 pm
Rees-Mogers is, this afternoon, to bring forward a Bill to make every day in the calendar 31st October so that, come what we, the UK will leave the EU on 31st October.
——————-
Then leave again the next day, the 31st of October. And the next day, and so on forever. Groundhog Brexit. Makes about as much sense as what’s happening now.
I see the Tories in Scotland have taken on an ex Labour in Scotland spin doctor. The brief presumably is I want you to do for us what you did for Jim Murphy, Kezia Dugdale and Richard Leopard.
Listening to Call UKAYE this am. Yeah loads of stooges..John the working class tory loony fae Aiberdeen; the west central Loyalist who thinks everybody against Boris is a’rebel’..somebody who supports a Glasgow team perhaps and votes accordingly?.
However, the confusion and uninformed illogicality expressed by the several legit individuals highlights the wrongheaded SNP ‘play fair’ approach to Brexit….trying to save England, who voted ‘out’ inherently contradictory..why would England ‘allow ‘ us to have a successful vote for Indy on the same principle?
Even if, somehow, the lining up with BLAB AND FIBDEMS prevents a ‘No Deal’skydive into economic/social and political chaos. Then does NS really think that the fearties , who very reluctantly are moving towards INDY will not breathe a sigh of relief and move back to supporting the rotten status quo? Scots are small ‘c’conservative people. They will put up with as much shite as possible as long as they can ‘get by’. Many don’t understand anything about Reserved powers and the dreaded Barnett formula. They think we need English money and leadership despite seeing in plain sight its utter moral and political bankruptcy.
And if we don’t pull it off/…no S30 . Then what? UDI? Because that’s what the REf will be, even if we skate a GE, because Boris Hitler will outlaw any attempt to separate the ‘awesome foursome’…not his bedtime companions, but us, the irksome sweaties. We could and should have walked away in 2015 as we had the numbers in seats and , with the Greens, over 51% of the vote. I was told several months ago on a previous thread to ‘wake up at the back’ when I reminded people about this. Well ‘wakey wakey’ at the front back and sides because we are about to get our arses booted for not sticking to basic principles of Independence, Independence, Independence. We are now embroiled in the English Civil War 2 because of weak leadership and gutless non nationalists masquerading as social engineers.
Reasoning with fascists is appeasement by any other definition.
We had the mandate in 2015 and 2016, the Claim of Right, the Act of Union, all broken, all ignored and traduced. But here we sit waiting to repeat the same pointless empty assertions with all the power of a ‘parish council’.
Please prove me wrong Nicola and soon!
@Thepnr
“Maybe though it’s a double bluff?”
Smoke and mirrors. Maybe. There’s a lot of it about, I think.
Dr Jim says:
4 September, 2019 at 3:36 pm
The SNP intends to legally ironclad their referendums bill which is making its way through Holyrood now, as far as I understand it the SNP will name a date for an Independence referendum apply for a section 30 order and if that is refused (which is in no way certain it will be refused) the referendum will proceed with Scottish court legal ruling using the Claim of Right as precedent which has already been passed by Westminster, and as I also understand it that will be enough to satisfy UN criteria on self determination followed by EU acceptance of legality
—————
Keep taking, Jim. I’m almost there…
Seriously, if that’s true then it’s yet more reason for the SNP to play hardball in negotiations with Corbyn. Don’t just demand a S30 but, at the very least, all broadcasting to be devolved as well.
What you’ve outlined fits well with Blackford’s recent emphasis on the Claim of Right too. Fingers crossed your source is correct.
May didn’t refuse an S30, she said “Now is not the time” which is not a refusal. Countless ministers and spokespeople said it would be refused, none of them in any “official” category. Mundell said it would be refused which almost certainly means it would have been issued, with him forced to carry it with the teapot. “You forgot the sugar, go get it, now IS the time. Scurry off.”.
@ Welsh Sion – welks 🙂
Well said Rev, you’ve summed it up nicely.
jfngw @ 3:25 pm
“Tories apparently returning the money they stole from Scottish farmers and now tweeting they want congratulations for this.”
There is as far as I know no agreement on the last four devolved competencies returning to Scotland from the EU after Brexit.
I wonder if this cash, is a concession?
Given in exchange for an agreement on power sharing while a new UK framework is put in place?
Hammond confirms to us all what the dogs in the street already know.
There are no negotiations going on between the UK and the EU 26.
Dr Jim @ 15:36,
Your recollection is perfectly correct – the SG has as yet never made a formal S.30 request for IR2. Whatever the papers may have implied. It was all just Tory PR waffle, and in the event, May, for all her bluster, was never put to the test. (For good reason at the time.)
An S30 order is in effect asking permission from the country that thinks it owns you to let you decide if you don’t want them to own you. Seem a strange way to determine self determination, I’m not sure this would stand up to any international scrutiny.
It would be bit like a slave owner writing the rules so you can decide to not be a slave, but only when they give you permission.
How many other independent countries that left the UK required a permission note from the UK. Admittedly a number did have to fight them off, the slave owner never gave up his possessions willingly.
@Unionist Media BDSM Club 3:51pm that’s a long handle
There are too many people demanding revolutionary fist pumping shouty action and slamming people up against walls politics that just won’t and can’t work, and the people doing it are attributing power to the Scottish government they just don’t have and many of them are doing it for their own political agenda, either to push things too fast so they fail or because they want to promote their own new party perhaps?
Either way it’s never as simple as the shouty folk make out because they’re not in possession of all the facts and details or the level of power The SG do have to enact certain things
Then there’s the frustrated people, and that’s pretty much most of us, but I’m always reminded of the Alex Salmond approach (much though I thought he was great) which saw us lose because he gave too much away and we all knew what he was thinking because he kept telling us and that meant he was telling the opposition too
If I have to be kept uninformed and in the dark and win then that’ll do for me because I’m not the FM and I don’t believe I’m smarter at this than the SNP is
Of course that requires an element of trust and I do trust because why would the SNP not want to do their best for Independence for us, if they don’t then there would be no future for them and nobody thinks they’re that stupid they’d want to be voted out of office for telling us porkies, look what happened to Labour for doing that
@mr thms
It looks more like just a propaganda exercise by the Tories to try and shore up the farming vote in Scotland in any upcoming election. I wouldn’t read anything deeper into it myself.
Good to hear @Keir_Starmer confirm at the despatch box that Labour will not back an election until the Bill preventing no deal is enacted & its provisions – including an #Article50 extension implemented.
link to twitter.com
That’ll be that then. Or will it? 🙂
@mr thms
Naw! Every Government minister who has spoken has extolled the virtues of all the Scottish Tories in the constituencies that the money is being spent and naming them in the their dialogue.
There is an attempt to shore up of the shoogly tory foundations in Scotland
I have heard Ruth Davidson being hailed a great tory at least 4 times today. They are shitting themselves about things North of the wall. ie: £130M for Scottish farmers
An election is coming! (Game of thrones for real) 🙁
mr thms @ 16:04,
This is just BoJo shoring up his traditional voter base in advance of the inevitable upcoming UKGE.
He is spending everything in ex-chancellor Hammond’s carefully-amassed piggy bank on a pre-election splurge to buy his way back into power.
Afterwards, win or lose, who cares…?
So Brexit is still likely to happen
A hard Brexit is still very likely
The possibility of Brexit put those in support of Scottish independence above 50%
Yes it’s clear that Westminster is a shambles but erase the threat of Brexit and I think the numbers who will vote for Scottish independence will drop
Some people have said that as a majority voted for brexit across the UK brexit must be delivered
I agree
Even though a majority in Scotland voted to remain we all knew before we voted that it was a UK vote
It’s just that we didn’t expect a “ leave “ win.
Lib Dem’s aided with Labour yesterday to stop the no deal brexit in its tracks but it’s not over yet as explained on this website.
Lib Dem’s could support the government enabling them to see brexit over the line so in my opinion another Tory Lib Dem coalition is possible
328-301
Lib Dem’s have 15 but that includes the one that crossed from Tory to Lib Dem’s yesterday so even if we exclude him there are 14 Lib Dem’s which if added to the Tory 301 gives them 315
And if you deduct the 14 from 328 it leaves 314 Philip lee abstains
A Boris win , you never know with the Lib Dem’s , what would persuade them ?
call me dave @ 16:18,
SNAP!
jfngw @ 16:17,
Likewise! =grin=
Are the Tories adding the interest on this £160m, after all some of it is from six years ago and worth a lot less now with the pound tanking, any imports costing more and exports worth less.
That’s the Klingon Vague of graphs method – surely the distance vertical from -1 to -43 should be significantly greater than that from 17 to -1. But it’s brilliant nonetheless…
EU confirm there are no new negotiations taking place, they believe B Johnson has lied to parliament. But they forget Johnson is prevaricating, he is in negotiations regarding Brexit but these are limited to a few cohorts in the Tory party.
Politicians main art is giving one impression whilst carrying out something else, Tony Blair was a master at this deception.
It is also a waste of time watching parliament, no MP genuinely changes their vote from speeches made in the HoC. they have all already made up their mind how they intend to vote, the speeches are just a bit of theatre for the public. If you cut out the speeches and just held some votes the outcome would be identical.
Dr Jim says:
4 September, 2019 at 4:14 pm
@Unionist Media BDSM Club 3:51pm that’s a long handle
There are too many people demanding revolutionary fist pumping shouty action and slamming people up against walls politics that just won’t and can’t work…
———————-
Amen, brother. A pet peeve is the UDI I’ll-be-first-oana-barricades-gimme-that-Molotov-maaaaan brigade. Handy way to get yourself a few thousand more Twitter followers, but that’s about it. Same kind of folk who sit in Uni bars still singing songs about the NI Troubles to (they think) impress the ladies.
Last comment badly worded, it’s not the EU that believe he has lied but people here in the UK.
Partner huddled over her PC doing an Opinion Forum Poll thing.
I’ve been ordered away back to my PC out the road.
I never get asked anything.
PS:
Image Scotland in 1707 where radio and tv was available for the kilted masses to peruse the goings on at WM.
I think we would all be doing something else today.
Better pensions, less homeless… Oh Wait! Maybe no SNP and Labour got control…best leave that thought there. 🙁
@ Mumsyhugs and Tackety Beets
😉 Winky thing
And yes. Yes it is confusing.
@call me dave
Interesting concept, but of course none of us would probably currently exist with such a major change in history. It would be others, who currently never existed that would be running things.
So House of Lards King of Slime Lard Forsyth tells us he, and his slobbering geriatric and errr ‘holy’ friends in the most expensive care home in the world, is going to to filibuster the No Deal Bill. He, Bell End Forsyth, claims this bill is an affront to democracy. In the name of fuck has this prick no shame?
Sir Bill Cash Arch Tory Brexiteer MP says in his speech this pm that his father was killed in the last war and he fought for freedom and not to be governed by other people. ( please note that this does not apply to Scotland according to the Tories and all the Britnats.)
The British Empire thst delivered freedom to people all around the world – that must have been in a parallel universe!
@jfngw
Aye! There’s a thing. 🙁
I think… therefore I never was.
Soon be time to man the barricades !
@call me dave
Yes it’s always a bit sobering thinking that righting all the wrongs of the past results in your own extinction (never existing really).
Dr Jim@4.14pm
I concur. If having to be kept in the dark aids us in winning independence I also have no problem with that.
Time will tell if the Scot gov have got the people that can deliver independence. Time will tell if a majority of Scots still prefer subservience, subjugation and humiliation as their daily menu.
So we have an unelected PM, who heads up a minority Government, pursuing a policy which nobody voted for, about to be facilitated in achieving his goal by the upper chamber, who nobody gets to vote for, and dragging Scotland out of the EU despite 62% saying to the contrary.
I wonder what the people of Hong Kong would think of our collective efforts to date…
Second reading of the “surrender bill” vote gets through by 329 to 300!!
An extra vote for Corbyn and the Rebels, where’d that come from?
The conduct of Terrible May’s Govt, and now LBJ’s Government – particularly re their negotiated withdrawal agreement in Ireland – leaves them without honour, or credibility – on the international and home stage. Their word is not their bond.
We should not seek a S30 order – we should call them out for the disingenuous shower that they are – and say loud and clear – any S 30 order signed by them would not be honoured by them and would not be worth the paper it is written on.
A Referendum then is for the benefit of the home crowd and the international crowd – not England.
Their conduct gives us a stick to beat them with. Let them justify why any such S 30 order is ‘needed’ and then tell us why this time, they really would deal honest.
All sides are talking about the affronts to democracy of opponents. Scottish independence is not an affront to democracy. And we take it because it is good.
We can leave the weaklings of Westminster to squabble among themselves.
You’re an invaluable asset to the yes movement, Stu, but in some instances, you’re a child. Removing the link to “Scot Goes Pop!” from your site is petty and juvenile.
There are International professors of law who study constititional issues not just to earn a crust but as a passion. One such professor is Jure Vidmar, Professor of Public International Law in the Faculty of Law at Maastricht University; Research Fellow at St John’s College at the University of Oxford.
He published a paper “The Scottish Independence Referendum in an International Context” before the referendum in 2014 giving his opinion. In the Introduction he had this to say:
On 18 September 2014, Scotland will hold a referendum on
independence. Under international law, such referenda generally do not create a “right to independence,” and, even if successful, they only rarely result in the emergence of a new state.
Independence is not an entitlement under international law, and states usually oppose any such aspirations of their subunits.
Scotland seems to be one of the few exceptions to this general pattern, as the referendum is formalized by an agreement between the governments of the United Kingdom (UK) and Scotland.
A Section 30 order is NOT required for Scotland to undertake a second Independence referendum. The important thing is not the Section 30 order it is International recognition of the referendum result that really matters.
Same goes for any other method often proposed on here about how Scotland can obtain Independence. Unless the International community recognise the legitimacy of your claim to Independence then you will not truly be seen as an Independent country.
The paper is worth reading, all of it if you have the time. It can be downloaded at the link below for those that might be interested.
link to papers.ssrn.com
You’re an invaluable asset to the yes movement, Stu, but your removal of the link to “Scot Goes Pop!” from your site is juvenile……
Off topic or on topic – you decide.
Just thinking aloud.
Let’s not forget that into this incredible stooshie that Cameron’s autobiography is due to be published soon. Wondering how its contents will impact on the latest ‘events’.
For the third time, I will attempt to comment. You are an invaluable asset for the yes movement Stu, but sometimes you act like a spoilt child. Removing the link to a fellow yesser’s site is the act of a petulant juvenile. Shame on you…..
@Thepnr
You are a genius at procuring these types of articles. 🙂
Budding rival to Nana.
———————————————————-
Latest rumour from EU
Planning for a UK GE 15th Oct.
Will grant a further extension to Brexit if asked.
Is anyone else not angered at lard doherty’s refusal to allow challenge to doris’s prorogue proposals , in effect it appears that english law , wastemonster and the crown are superior to Scots law , or is it just that lard doherty is so entrenched in his unionist lardiness that he believes anything english is superior to jockiness
Was it not the same lard doherty who ruled against the Scottish Gov contingency bill , which then progressed to the english SC and eventually was found to be competent but allowed time for the lardships to rush through alternative legislation to circumvent the bill
The question must be ratified , IF english law and Scots law are separate entities and neither can be subverted why is a supposed senior Scots person ruling against Scots law in preference to English law
If I were of the legal profession in Scotland I would take great pride in Scots law and do everything in my power to uphold the tenets of that law , I would also do everything in my power to PROTECT the rights of Scots law , but it appears that like so much else we have people who believe in the english superiority myth within our judiciary
IT was another Tory that voted with Corbyn and the Rebels. Caroline Spelman though she won’t lose the whip?
If Bill Cash cares to pull that silver spoon from his mouth
He would be able to read about the 10 Million people plus
Who were murdered by the English Army while fighting to
Keep control of their country and their resources.
Among the many murders there were men women and Children,
The Disabled the infirm and babies.
In South Africa they starved thousands to death with all the above present.
They introduced diseases to deliberately wipe additional numbers out quickly.
We know that same Westminster government hired the UDA to murder suspected
IRA member who couldn’t be sent to trial so they are still at it.
Ask the Million who died of starvation in Ireland or the many thousands of Scots
Driven into the sea during the Highland clearances how great their Empire was.
Please rid Scotland of upper class scum like Cash at the next referendum, or you are next!
@ PNR
Think it was Stephen Gethins who was appointed as a teller yesterday. Don’t quote me on that but, I think that’s where the extra vote came from.
Alex Birnie , i think the Rev is perfectly entitled to link to whoever he wants on his blog. If I was being slagged of by another blogger I would remove any links I had to them as well.
re : rees mogg, lounging
the eccentric customs of the commons often delight and frustrate the outsider – you may have heard about not wearing suits of armour, not clapping, not calling people liars, being 2 sword lengths away, “I spy strangers” … and so on
what a lot of people don’t know its that it IS PERMISSIBLE to masturbate in the house
as long as
– it is done “arrogantly, from the front bench” so, contrary to expectation, having a crafty one on the backbench is not allowed
– bringing the act to a conclusion is compulsory, but one’s emissions must not travel more than “one sword length” across the chamber; hitting an opponent is considered assault and leads to a 2 week ban
– see appendices, erskine-may, general onanism
Cash is not a happy bunny.
Democracy subverted by this bill and it’s those tories from whom the whip has been removed that are responsible for the vote succeeding …(the swines). The costs to the UK is £1.2Bn a month. 🙂
PS
That’s the same as Scotland’s Barnett formula uplift £1.2Bn this afternoon.
@William Wallace
You’re right William about Gethins and the SNP vote increased by one as a result. That didn’t change the majority though from 27 to to 29. It was Tory Caroline Spelman who yesterday voted with the government and today voted against.
link to twitter.com
Oh!
As Max Miller (cheeky chappie) always said “Here’s a funny thing”
Just heard on STV news that Boris could not remove any Scottish Tory MPs from any re-election position as the matter is devolved!!
At the moment Jackson Carlaw holds their P45s Jings!
James Kelly seems a touch tetchy, that seems to be three pro-indy people,to my knowledge, he has now alienated. He appears to use his blog to attack people he disagrees with. This is fine with the big names, but naming someone who has no real recourse is not acceptable..
Too many egos sometimes.
What a great big pile of steaming keech this is.
Why all the fuss about the date of the looming general election? Asks Robert Peston
Peston is a Tory and a Johnson fanboy.
Link to the keech 🙂
link to archive.fo
jfngw @ 6:19 pm
James Kelly … one of the scrambled egos.
(Thanks for the feed!)
Found this on Ian Dunts twitter feed – well worth a look
Alejandro Negueruela? @Alex_Negueruela 3h3 hours ago
More
My evening at the Houses of Parliament. #ReesMogg #NoDeal #DateNight #Parliament #Brexit #NoDealBrexit
I think there’s still a chance that the men in white coats will come for Johnson before Brexit becomes a reality if this is anything to go by.
Boris Johnson came under sustained attack in the 1922 committee this evening for withdrawing the whip from the 21 anti no deal rebels.
The prime minister blamed it on the chief whip, saying it would be wrong to undermine him. “It was completely pathetic,” said one MP.
Johnson was also questioned about the role of Dominic Cummings in the sacking of the 21 rebels. The PM responded that Cummings shouldn’t be blamed as it was him in a “latex mask”.
link to twitter.com
Does anyone seriously doubt now, that the lunatics have literally taken over the Westminster asylum?
Lenny Hartley, please show me where James Kelly has “slagged off” Stu? I read both blogs every day, and James Kelly has never “slagged off” Stu. At a time when we need maximum information, maximum honesty, and maximum cooperation, Stu’s selfish arrogance and his petulance, we can do without. I will continue to support both blogs financially, because, unlike Stu, my ego is less important than Independence, but Stu needs to grow up……
Well those who claimed Boris Johnson’s buffoon act was just a mask (maybe a latex one) have been proved wrong. He is a buffoon just a malevolent one.
I’m just waiting on him to declare all non Etonians officially oik’s and unfit to hold any offices of state. Maybe he’ll make his dad a lord and appoint him NI secretary as I believe he has the solution.
Devastating attack just now on Sky news from Tory peer Lord Patton where he called the Johnston administration an extreme English nationalist government.
No time for Tory’s or Lords but he didn’t pull any punches
Allan Watson @ 19:01,
“Extreme nationalist”? Oh, we’ll have Broon on the case any time now then.
Won’t we…?
Alex Burnie
is that right, aye…..
Things go from bad to worse for Johnson in terms of support.
Damian Green, writing on behalf of nearly 100 ‘One Nation’ Tory MPs, accuses Boris Johnson of a “purge” of “moderate members”, which is “wrong in principle and bad practical politics”.
“We are now calling upon the PM to reinstate the Party whip to these colleagues.”
link to twitter.com
How long can this failed Prime Minister survive in post?
No disrespect to James Kelly. I just find Scot Goes Pop is too much of an SNP fan-site for my tastes.
I do read his blog, but Wings, Peter A Bell and Craig Murray are my personal favourites.
@Alex Birnie
Wind your neck in this about protecting womens hard fought rights against the ludicrous GRA agenda being pushed by the SNP and the Greens. I will not be giving them my list vote and I’m sure there are many like me according to polling over this issue, so who gets my list vote nobody or someone of a like mind?
WTF.
Just caught something on channel 4 news. It sounded like Boris & chums might have somehow managed to torpedo the bill which was designed to stop no deal.
Rees Mogg lying back totally bored probably counting his millions .And giving Toffs a bad name
I wish there was a Wings or independence party I could vote for at the General Election, if there is one.
I’m sick of the SNP or Supine National Party.
I want a straightforward one policy only, Scottish independence party.
Not a “pro-independence” Anti-Hard Brexit /pro-EU / pro-monarchy / Anti-Trident / Gay rights / Transgender / Green / Feminist / social-democratic / All things to all “persons” devolution party.
Boris “Charlie” Johnson who doesn’t want a General election gets to his feet in the chamber of the House of Commons and… asks the House to support his motion for an early General Election. Sniff!
@Stravaiger
Hilary Benn’s amendment seems to rule out a’peoples vote’ due to some mention of a time stipulation which suits Boris. Tories seemingly let it slip by unopposed.
May have lost the plot as I was doing something else for 15mins or so. Fingers crossed. 🙂
From Iain McWhirter on Twitter
“Caretaker” is better. But whatever it’s called, it’s the only sure option. It’s now Labour who are running down the clock.”
Labour are playing this for Labour and not in the national interest
O/T
Has anybody seen any photos of the “riots” in Govan? I have searched and I have found no photos showing anything other than riot police.
Anybody from the Govan area got any information?
I find this very suspcious.
Boris will end up voting himself out with a little bill soon.
GE is coming.
@call me dave
Government has deliberately allowed Stephen Kinnock’s amendment through. They didn’t provide tellers (to count votes)
link to twitter.com
Sleekit, but what else should we expect. Sniff.
twathater
I think it is significant that the Lord Advocate asked to be included in this case at the Court of Sessions. He obviously thought it was an extra special cause.
For Lord Doherty to then rule against Scots law to me suggests that he is looking to taking up his seat in the Lords soon and possibly believes the guff about the Supreme Court and Parliamentary Sovereignty.
Of course he may have had a few unorthodox phone calls last night!
Either way, I would think an appeal is justified though whether we have the time to carry it out is debatable.
Events are moving rapidly.
@Thepnr
Thanks: Kinnock amd. It rules out a ‘peoples vote’ for some reason
Which is why it was let through.
I lost some of the earlier details.
This after you Claude business is ridiculous. All going to Boris’s only hope which is to vote himself out of office and plead with the darn Sarf electorate that parliament as the bad guys!
Jeremy knows he will be slaughtered in the election.
Boris may pull it off yet. 🙁
Ian Blackford on fire. Best I’ve heard from any SNP MP.
Scotland demands the right to a second referendum.
We will combine to bring down this government.
On his feet for ten minutes. Great stuff try to catch it. It’s worth it.
@call me dave
[Niche nerd update – Rebel alliance source says their legal advice is that the Kinnock amendment is legally meaningless]
link to twitter.com
Hahaha
What I find really chilling is that 299 MPs, almost half, didn’t want this bill to pass.
Why? Blind loyalty to the leader to keep their jobs? So thick they believe the crap about no-deal needing to be on the table for the fictional negotiations? Or, far right English Nationalists who believe the pain and sacrifice of ordinary folks is a price worth paying to make the rich richer?
Not a pretty picture for humanity, is it?
Excellent from Blackford making lots of good points for Scotland.
One of these two other chumps will eventually organise an election.
My bets still on Boris. 🙂
OK Thepnr.
@Meg Merriless
link to twitter.com
“The decision today unleashes some ugly constitutional demons. I hope and expect it to be overturned on appeal.”
(tomorrow Inner Court)
Jo Swinson ain’t no Blackford is she.
Boris Johnson in a latex mask. The gimp.
link to youtube.com
call me dave
I find her rather a political lightweight.
Dr Jim@3.36 and 4.14.
Weel said sir. The Referendum Bill will be An ace card against the jokers decrying IndyRef2, Will Section 30 agreement be sought? Aye. Will a withholding of consent stop it being held? Naw.
Why? Because cast-iron mandates go nowhere else other than being put to the rest.
And iits passage and the debate surrounding the Bill will tell the world that the people of Scotland have the power to choose their own future, and nobody else.
Alex Birnie From James Kelly of Scotland goes pop. . “I’ve said that it’s a foolish idea which risks costing us pro-indy seats at Holyrood “ .
Calling somebody foolish is slagging somebody off in any language and as for your comments on Stu, you sound as much up your own arse as James Kelly is.
Meg merrilees @ 20:03,
My impression is that Lord Docherty effectively said “this one is above my pay grade” and thereby passed the buck. As he did, IIRC, in the Art.50 withdrawal case.
8.34 *make that test, not rest! FFS
@Lenny Hartley
What I don’t get with James Kelly is he sees a Wings party as gaming the system. But that is how the system has been designed, is not voting SNP/Green or Lab/LIbDem also gaming the system. It was designed that way to keep the SNP out, the fact that it has not worked is not my fault or anybodies that splits their vote. I didn’t split my vote as will never vote for the Greens, but I may for a Wings party that had reasonable candidates,the quality of the candidates is the over-riding factor for me.
“Martin@1:58
Would never wash. Can’t say it’s fair if you have one option for independence and 4-5 against which would split the anti independence vote. Electoral Comission would never buy it and in fairness I think with good reason.”
Of course it would work – declaring for independence is just the first step – you have a pile of negotiating to do before the final hurdle – so in the election campaign you state very clearly that there will be a final vote before actual independence (that is, the people get their referendum, and it’ll be on what we are actually getting, not pie in the sky woolly maybies), and that hundreds of citizen assemblies will be formed to propose actual policies etc during the negotiating. Better also if the SNP had and outline plan of sequence of events as well as proposed method of implementing each area. Emphasise that final referendum, and using the GE as a de-facto independence vote will work well.
“All the arguments being made by the SNP for independence are the same as those being made for Brexit,” says Christine Jardiine of the Fibbers on the Nine.
And there speaks the still, small voice of….idiocy. Truly desperate stuff.
Hi @Capella 1:53pm (previous post)
Sorry I didn’t get a chance to reply before we moved to a new post re: which law applies to the UK Parliament. It’s off topic here now, so apologies.
Mr Peffers and others have covered this frequently – as did the very court case today – Parliamentary Sovereignty and Divine right is an English construct.
Further; following the Treaty and Acts of Union and the creation of the UK etc & Parliament, laws had to be adopted. Primarily this was merely the continuation of the English legal system with some slight adoption of Scots law.
This has a part in the argument, that the English parliament (and by extension the Kingdom of England) continued, absorbed Scotland and morphed into the UK of Great Britain etc, its Parliament and Government, with some token Scots MP’s sitting in it.
Fundamemtally however, it still comes back to “what is justiciable (or judiciable) to Parliament” That is ultimately answered by “Parliamentary Sovereignty applies” or if you like Parliament stands outside the law, it is “Outlaw” – or, if you prefer Judge Dread : “I am the Law” there is no constitution binding it and no law over it. It is the creator and repealer of law by its prerogative – it is not bound by the law where it does not wish to be.
Or at least, so it wants everyone to believe.
For reference : in McCormick v Lord Advocate 1953 SC 396 Lord President Cooper, observed that the principle of the unlimited sovereignty of the Westminster Parliament was a distinctively English principle which had no counterpart in Scottish constitutional law.
Also refer this twitter thread reporting on Proceedings yesterday at the Court of Session.
Aiden O’Neill.QC “…These courts are not a Royal Court like in England. This court is not subject to the power of the Crown”
link to bit.ly
******Just now***** Professor Poultice on the BBC 9 channel confirms……..
Remainers in Scotland will vote for Independence should Brexit in any form happen and at the moment that figure stands at 62% within that group and is rising according to the Prof
Bad news for Unionist politicians claiming Scotland doesn’t want Independence because it’s now clear that it does, the Prof went on to say
The prediction for SNP MPs is low to mid fifties making a request for section 30 more or less undeniable, then the interviewer hurriedly cut him off to ask about England
Johnson needed 434 MP’s to vote for his early election tonight he actually got 298. Effing useless LOL.
So far in Johnson’s reign as PM his government has had 3 votes and lost every one of them, 3-0 so far to the opposition. Well done the hang em high brigade in your choice of leader for the Tory reprobate party. I salute his indefatigability.
LibDem logic, independence is he same as Brexit (this is an ex BBC journalist so you ascertain the quality of BBC analysis here). So by definition then, Angela Merkel must be Prime Minister.
A bit embarrassing for Jeremy …but watch the elephant is still vexing him. No matter Boris will do it for him when it suits. 🙂
Farage just said on radio 5 that the current withdrawal treaty (deal) is worse than staying in Europe.
Boris and The Brexit Party will, in an election, go for a ‘No Deal Brexit’ and come to some understanding and sweep the boards.
(Not in Scotland) 🙂
Is it possible that Jeremy Corbyn and the SNP are at the wind up in saying that they will support a vote on a General Election after the “surrender bill” gains Royal Assent?
Depending on how long the Lords take to pass the bill and for it to come back to parliament before going for Royal Assent might parliament have already been prorogued?
Who knows, but know what I’d love, I mean really really love? It’s for the bill to gain Royal Assent and then Johnson asks again for an early election and the opposition oppose/abstain.
Johnson screaming across the chamber “you said” “you promised you’d support an early election.”
Sorry Boris we were just having you on hahaha. We lied, suck it up 🙂
Kinda worried that Stu has had three nasty threatening twitter / email messages and I hope he’s contacting the polis. 🙁
jfngw , agree, the Greens wont get my list vote but if there is a Wos party then that probably will.
I think the publicity that the Wos party will generate and the base where it will be starting from will ensure a reasonable haul of list votes. Certainly more than the SNP can reasonably expect to get. Perhaps Kelly is comparing Wos reader numbers to his own blog when he thinks that a Wos party would not be effective. Anybody else than Stu and Wos I might tend to agree with him.
As to stature of candidates , im not that bothered in this instance, like the Labour red monkey , i would vote for anybody ias long as it secures an Indy majority , bearing in mind they would be replacing folk of the calibre of the other James Kelly , you would need to be pretty useless to be worse than him!
@Capella et-al
* Perhaps I should clarify that when I mention Divine right and Parliamentary Sovereignty being an “English Construct” it is meant in the narrowest of terms of Rule within the British Isles.
Though the concept is ancient globally (and even within the British isles it can be found in reference to Irish Kings, St Columba etc) as an English construct we’re looking at Richard 1st and more infamously Henry VIII.
Naturally, we can all point to James the “saxt and first” and argue for a Scottish element, but he wiz aff his nut – by that time no-one in Scotland had countenanced “Divine Right” for an extremely long time, if ever. He was trying to impose Henry’s conceipts and the English Kingdoms legal constructs upon his erstwhile Scottish Kingdom.
@Thepnr
Reminded me a wee bit of the film.
‘A few good men’ egging each other to call a ‘code red’ 🙂
Thenpr, Boris still holds all the cards, the nuclear option, he delays sending the letter to the EU to ask for an extension of Article 50. When the EU meet to vote just days before Oct 31st the UK veto’s their own request.
Radio 5 are calling the opposition rebels and get this.
Suggesting the SNP may do a deal with Boris to get their election. Just like in the 1970’s when they voted with the tories etc etc.
Big Auntie eh!
I hear Christine Jardine has stared this rumour in WM.
Put yourselves in the shoes of the Tory strategists.
It looks like the opposition are going to succede in extending the Brexit deadline.
A 2/3 majority for a GE is not going to happen until Brexit has been well and truly kicked into the long grass – AND until BOTH Labour and the Tories think they have a realistic chance of winning.
Both Partys know that they will be decimated in Scotland, that the Lib-Dems are likely to gain some ground and the intervention of the Faragists will wreak a lot of very unpredictable havoc.
So what is to be done?
Persist as a minority until the five years is up?
Concede the extension and call Corbyns bluff on a dicey election?
Or what about putting on a Champions of Democracy hat and propose another referendum, which would only require a simple majority.
Even better if it was a double Header with a Scottish Independence Referendum – That would drive a giant wedge between the opposition Parties and if the Jockanese said sayonara – Abracadabra alakazoom Majority restored.
And a clear mandate from the people of England to carry on Brexiting.
All the other alternatives are likely to result in chaos.
@Lenny Hartley
Haha Boris holds no cards, they’re all face up and everybody can see the shit hand he holds.
No majority, No early election and No support from other than the loony ERG mob and the weak willed MP’s that have stuck with him either through their desire for a no deal or through fear of losing their jobs.
The brave ones bailed out already. Emperor Johnson has no clothes and is now a laughing stock after losing every vote he has faced in parliament.
He’s not just a lame duck, he’s a dead duck. He holds “all the cards” as much as Gove believed when he said:
“The day after we vote to leave, we hold all the cards and we can choose the path we want”
Gove was deluded and so too is Johnson. He has nothing!
O/T
Why have you removed Scot Goes Pop from the Scottish Politics section?
Anybody even spending a moment considering the Christine Jardine nonsense would realise even if the SNP voted with the Tories on the election request it still wouldn’t pass, or be anywhere near, the threshold for an election under the current rules.
The LidDem’s are a mendacious bunch it has to be said. They are the most likely party to work with the Tories, they have form.
If your not fed up of politios yet and looking for a laugh at Boris Johnson then it might be worth tuning in to Tory mouthpiece Peston in 15 minutes.
EXCLUSIVE: A constitutional crisis, the Commons in control and Brexit on the brink. What will Boris Johnson do next?
The PM is on #Peston tonight. Watch the full interview at 10.45pm @ITV and on our Facebook & Twitter.
link to twitter.com
Tam the bam
Check up thread
Watched the proceedings in Parliament at a neighbours. As ever the benches on both sides (but mainly the Tory side) were relatively empty during the various speeches leading up to each of the votes. I understand that some of the business of the Commons relates to specific matters which may be of particular importance to certain members only, but the important stuff like tonight surely demands that each and every MP attends to hear the arguments pro and con BEFORE casting their votes. The truth sadly is that many of them have been instructed how to vote prior to the event and have meekly acquiesced which therefore only requires that they vacate the bars in time for the actual votes to be cast. So much for democracy and morality.
I would like to propose a time card system whereby MPs clock in and out during the course of general debates in the House of Commons and that their salaries are subject to deduction at an agreed rate for each incomplete hour of non-attendance. This should also encompass deductions for time spent oblivious to proceedings a la Jacob Deceased Mogg.
SNP abstained on the early election vote, 28 Labour voted against it along with the smaller parties. 3 Labour MP’s voted with the Tories.
HOL Tory peers ‘filibustering’ to prevent progression to Royal Assent.
Newsnight reporting Johnson has offered to ‘call off the dogs” if Corbyn agrees to an election.
I’d put money on Corbyn NOT supporting an early election even after this bill gains Royal Assent. He’s a clown too but there are others who can hold him to account.
@Rev Stu OT
Strange one on your twitter feed.
link to twitter.com
Clicking on that tweet gives this –
Sorry, that page doesn’t exist!
It’s your last reply to visibleducts
Ian Blackford is on Peston tonight – just started.
As i said, everyone wants a ge, we are simply going through the process of bringing it about
no one wants to be seen to bring down the government, the voters have a history of punishing parties who are seen to do this. but however it happens, a ge is a racing certainty.
i have been saying this since the last ge. i also said that bojo would clear out dissenters. hint. he just did. the bxp voters will vote tory
a no dealbojo tory party will win this ge. corbyn isnt the leader to sweep labour into power.
yawn. i dunno why people find all this confusing. obvious, rational and very predictable
The election that, three days ago, he was saying was the election no one wanted.
I really don’t understand how anyone can take this clod seriously. And I have no idea how he managed to get to far. The man is a liar – that’s an undisputed fact these days – but he is such a BAD one. He can’t help smiling when he says something he knows is untrue. Just watch the statement at the podium outside number 10. He can’t help himself.
Colin Alexander@7.51pm
” I’m sick of the SNP…….”
Well who would have guessed that.
Who else is sick of the SNP um Truthless Davidson, Jackson Carcrash, Boris Johnson, Wee Willie Rennie, Bampot Ross Thomson, Thicko Leonard etc etc etc
You are in good company Mr Alexander – a bunch of Britnats.
Prof (poultice) Curtis on next radio 5 after the news.
Thepnr, you underestimate the people pulling Johnsons strings, they put Trump into power in the US, i reckon you have to be pretty smart to sell that pup even to the Yanks. We are not talking about a small ERG Cabal you are talking about the most sophisticated manipulators this planet has seen. The ultimate aim is to destroy the EU as a political and trading superpower.
They will get their election and off course a new Parliament can bring in any new laws it wants including restrospectively repealing any laws introduced by a previous Parliament.
The reason the so called Tory rebels lost the whip was so that Brexiteers could replace them for the forthcoming election, Boris and co will win with a reasonable majority. As the Rev has proved over the years, U.K elections have become Presidential in nature, 71% of Scots think Corbyn is doing badly, goodness knows what the figure in aengland is. All that could become academic as latest out of Finland who are holding the EU Presidency at the moment is that there is not widespread support in the EU to grantban extension to Article 50.
Call Me Dave@10.18.
Liberals had integrity once: “I do not like the word devolution as it has come to be called.
“It implies that power rests at Westminster, from which centre some may be graciously devolved.
“I would rather begin by assuming that power should rest with the people who entrust it to their representatives to discharge the essential tasks of government.
“Once we accept that the Scots and the Welsh are nations, then we must accord them parliaments which have all the normal powers of government, except for those that they delegate to the United Kingdom government or the EEC.” – Jo Grimond, former leader.
I wonder what he would have made of Christine Jardine’s fanatical British nationalism today? Or Swinson’s?
These people and their ilk are the enemies of everything Jo Grimond stood for – home rule, no Trident and checking the unfettered power of the British state.
Their deceit and perfidy will soon be revealed in glorious technicolour.
Well done, stu.
This graphic made “image of the week” on the Peston show.
Demonstrating once again how this website is changing the media, on air and in print.
@Thepnr –
Boris has nae gear oan right enough, but if there’s one thing we know abut the man it’s that he doesn’t embarrass easily.
If ‘The Cummings Doctrine’ (what a fuckin great thriler title, eh?) is to send Boris into Brussels/Strasbourg or wherever else ‘over there’ on a gigantic zipwire wearing nothing but a smile and a wee UJ in each hand, he’ll do it. And he’ll get away with it too because the red-tops will cast him as the Lone Ranger, Knight in Shining proverbials etc, a sort of fat El Cid sent in to terrorise the beastly infidels into panicked retreat.
It’s the same mentality as the English (yes, *English*) football yobs who cannot and will never abandon the right to express their superiority over every other nation on this planet by smashing everything in their way before vomiting and urinating over whatever remains.
Where the rest of us see plain old-fashioned fascism and thuggery, they perceive something Arthurian, noble and chivalrous; where the rest of us see a skinny narcissist in a badly-fitting pinstriped demob suit, Rees-Mogg sees himself reclining in an immaculate, tastefully draped toga, imperturbability personified, as he composes another perfect paragraph packed with alliteration, bon mots, and classical allusions for his peers to puzzle over; where we see a dysfunctional, embarrassingly archaic institution ready to collapse under the physical weight of so much useless fuckin meat, they will tell anyone who’ll listen (in addition to the tourists, obviously) that this shitehouse, this shambles, this nexus of corruption, vice, hypocrisy (insert your own pejorative abstract noun here – pretty much any will fit) is actually The Mother of All Parliaments.
In the satirical spirit of Swift I offer A Modest Proposal…
Each MP is assigned a number. Those numbers are printed on bingo balls. The Speaker is the caller. Every night, at the close of play, he turns the drum, draws a ball, and the member thus indicated is taken thence to Trafalgar Square where, in front of a specially invited audience (the mob is baying behind barriers not too far away), following some tasteful music, expert commentary, eulogies and appropriately timed parting words from the unfortunate soul, that member is humanely despatched.
This process is repeated at the end of every working day in the HOC until the Brext impasse is resolved.
Anyone reckon they’d take another three years?
😉
@Rev
My comment is in moderation and I’ve just clicked why – it’s because I have the word ‘d*aped’ in it.
Apolologologies!
🙁
The Peston show so far has been brilliant, Ian Blackford up in the next minute.
link to twitter.com
pity about the Scot goes Pop rift – why not agree to differ?
Stu is clearly right about the mathematics of a list-only party killing off otherwise undetectable unionists
That being said, I distinctly remember Stu arguing the opposite case in the 2016 elections – so in this he is a convert himself
I suspect the like of James Kelly would come around to the idea if there was some way of ensuring the candidates elected in this way would not spend their time tripping up the SNP and concentrate on any remaining unionists
Heart of Galloway @ 23:04,
All so sad, but all so very true.
Mind you, I don’t think any of the BritNat parties are what they used to be. Least of all the Tory Brexit cult.
Starting afresh all across the political spectrum, without the monkey of Unionism on our back, just gets more appealing by the day.
Ouch
link to scotgoespop.blogspot.com
Cadogan Enright @ 11-37pm
I agree … its a ludicrous ‘toys oot the pram’ dispute.
Get it sorted.
DAILY EXPRESS
END of the UNITED Kingdom: Election increases IndyRef bid- SNP to wipe out Scottish Tories
THE SNP looks set to wipe out the Scottish Tories in a future general election, paving the way for Nicola Sturgeon to make her bid to break up the Union with a second independence referendum, according to shock poll results.
Professor Curtice told BBC Radio Scotland’s Good Morning Scotland programme: “This suggests that an early general election would be a gift wrapped by Boris Johnson to Nicola Sturgeon as far as Scotland is concerned.
“The SNP could well find themselves with over 50 of Scotland’s 59 MPs.
“Certainly in an early election the Conservative Party probably has to brace itself for the probability it is going to lose some of those MPs who were crucial to Theresa May’s position in 2017.
“With perhaps as many as 51 seats, the SNP could dominate Scotland’s representation at Westminster just as they did after the 2015 election.
Dr Jim says:
4 September, 2019 at 9:32 pm
The prediction for SNP MPs is low to mid fifties making a request for section 30 more or less undeniable
—————–
This is interesting. There might be a possibility that the SNP could make not just indy central to their GE election campaign, but specifically obtaining a mandate *for a Section 30 Order*.
Let’s face it, we could win every seat in Scotland and still not achieve independence. But aiming for a mandate for a Section 30 Order is a far more specific goal, and could really fire up the troops on the doorsteps.
————–
Thepnr says:
4 September, 2019 at 9:57 pm
Who knows, but know what I’d love, I mean really really love? It’s for the bill to gain Royal Assent and then Johnson asks again for an early election and the opposition oppose/abstain.
——————-
If this happened, I’d still believe we’re living in a simulation, but just a wittier one than anyone realised.
The funniest way to do it would be to promise “Yes, Boris and Dom, once the bill has Royal Assent, we won’t stand in the way of an election” and then to abstain, thus strictly speaking not going back on their word.
Then watch Dom 15D Chess Grandmaster hospitalise himself after the bender of benders.
Just Found these on wiki
Polling for Westmister elections in Scotland (yesterdays polls not in yet – but should look good when they are) link to en.wikipedia.org
and same for Scottish Parliament
link to en.wikipedia.org
Just posted over on Scot goes Pop, I don’t often post there and the most recent time was when I shared a few discussions with James over the Wings party. I said i would post here too so this is it…
This is sad, I read both and rarely miss an article on either site. The biggest man would be the one who puts back up the link of his opponent because Independence is not about either of you and denying information to anyone new that comes along looks a bit daft IMO.
The Wings party is an idea, that’s it and it does not exist and more than likely never will, we will have to wait and see. What the “idea” done though was stir the porridge and get an awful lot of people all hot and bothered and that seems to have become a trademark of Wings.
I know that the two of you will read this, which one of you will pick up the phone and take the first step to get over this squabble. Your both too important to the Independence movement and it’s not all about YOU.
@Thepnr 12:05am
Agreed, but I think it may have been a bit more than the non existent and probably never to exist Wings party but more to do with the attitude towards the SNP in the past couple of months on Twitter
Although it has been amazing that folk have actually been arguing over defending and supporting something that doesen’t exist
My spelling’s atrocious today (doesn’t)
Should the WM parliament fail to get its bill through to postpone Brexit…
the only way to stop No Deal Brexit happening by default on 31/10/19 is…
A VoNC. This then allows 14 days for JC to try and form a Govt of Unity, and if he fails, it is the sitting PM who calls a new GE and sets the date. Just assuming he decides to play ‘nice’ and call it before / or on 31/10/19 – by statute the earliest a new GE can be called under these circumstances is 25 ‘working’ days.
25 working days, + 14 days – working back from 31/10/19 means 13th September 2019 is the last chance to form a new Govt and stop No Deal Brexit should the current efforts/shenanigans fail.
Stephen Kinnock’s little escapade tonight has provided WM MPs with another chance to fanny about arguing about a shit deal, instead of facing reality. Are both his parents still sitting in the House of Lords – be interesting to see if they filibuster too. Multi Millionaires that they are.
I’m going to say this again, because I think its important. The way WM have negotiated with the EU, and renegaded on their commitments re WA and Ireland – mean they cannot be trusted to keep their word on international agreements.
A S30 order signed by them (red or blue) would not be worth the paper it was written on and would not last the time it took for the ink to dry should their interests be better served to ignore it.
Thepnr at 12.05
Very well said indeed. I’m just the guy that for sixty years has trudged the streets, knocked the doors,delivered the leaflets organised the ceilidhs,the bingos and the table fairs and never developed any notion that my opinion was any more important than anybody else’s.
Can’t be doing with folk who think they are cleverer than all the rest of us. They are not – but they tend to create divisions.
I think one obvious caption for the above is simply ‘Jacob Rees Morgue’.
Or maybe I am just being too optimistic that the long nurtured scheming of the ultra right cabal for a takeover and establishment of a far right totalitarian regime has been sussed and thwarted by democrats of all political persuasions.
Still, beware the Jabber wok.
Should a GE date be set, and poor auld Betty pops her clogs within 7 days of election day, or in the time parliament has been cancelled for the election – the election date gets moved forward 7 days.
Sure it won’t come to that though.
Johnson’s coat must be on a shoogly peg when Rupert Murdoch’s Sky News can print this article. If I was Johnson I’d be worried.
Johnson’s personality has made the Brexit crisis worse
link to archive.fo
Lenny Hartley @1004 & 1102 pm .If there is no extension to the 31/10 deadline from EU , I would assume that the HOC would only agree to a GE after this deadline. Consequently would the “ real” nuclear option in the face of “ No Deal” be a vote to revoke article 50?
There’s a whole load of people being egotistical arseholes to be frank, but as long as it’s all let bygones be bygones when Indy Ref 2 is actually on the go, who gives a flying fuck?
It’s also better to rip each other a good one right now than tear into the undecideds, the soft NOes, and even hard NOes who are looking at Westminster and saying “Well, my heart’s a YES, and my head isn’t a NO”.
Ego Trippin’ across the bloggerverse,
On the Independence side, under Captain Quirk.
Ego Trippin’ across the twitterverse,
Only going forward ’cause we can’t find reverse.
As long as we get there, that’s fine, it’s life Jim but not as we know it.
Thepnr
I haven’t visited Scot goes Pop recently so no clue on what the dispute is although I can guess.
But if Mr Kelly is again denying the potential of an increased pro-indy total by having a promoted list indy party then I am somewhat surprised since I read a post election article from him where it seemed he admitted that he had been wrong in advocating SNP 1 and 2.
As I’ve said before, the secret to the success of such a ploy lies in the percentage of SNP 1 supporters who would lend their vote to a different list party.
Approximately:
Zero to 15% risks SNP losses possibly not compensated by the different list party gains but probably would be.
15%-30% most likely would see just an exchange of SNP list candidate for indy list party candidate, maybe unlucky not to result in an overall increase in pro-indy MSPs at the higher end of that range.
When you get to about 50% of SNP 1 supporters voting for a nominated different indy party on the list you should start to see a significant increase in total pro indy MSPs.
Obviously, 100% of SNP 1 voters opting for A. N. Other pro indy party on the list would optimise the total of pro-indy MSPs.
The best way to ensure those higher percentages would be SNP buy in to the ploy with them not standing any list candidates.
That is not going to happen because:
1 They would need to tell list hopefuls that they were not getting a place.
2 They use the list as an insurance policy for their ‘stars’.
Wings great advantage is that even without SNP endorsement I think a largish percentage of SNP 1 voters read the site and could be persuaded to vote ‘Wings’ on the list. Quite possibly a high enough percentage of SNP 1 voters to make a significant positive difference.
My concern is that, given the lovingly crafted corpus of negativity accumulated by the SMSM regarding Stuart, they could use that to drive the percentage down to unpredictable levels.
My preference would be for Wings to urge its readership to support the Greens on the list but given Stuart’s opinion of the Greens I don’t hold out much hope of that.
O/T but just a wee note of optimism by way of seeing how we are now being appreciated over the way, including an appreciation from the PM of Nordrhein-Westfalen, in the presence (inter alia) of no less than the German Head of State:
link to united-europe.eu
I find tribalism to be depressing, and Thepnr has said it for me. I read both blogs every day and support their crowdfunding each year. Both are important to the yes movement, and it will be a shame if neither backs down. Stu is definitely the more abrasive of the two, and while I’d be happy to have a pint with James, I don’t think I’d have a beer with Stu. Having said that, I still appreciate the work that both put into fighting against unionism. If Stu does commission a poll, with a question similar to the one that James is suggesting, and it suggests that a Wings party could exceed 5% of the regional vote, then I will encourage everyone I know to vote for Wings, On the other hand, if the figures are inconclusive, or Stu asks a “loaded” question, then I will advise everyone not to touch any “Wings” party with a barge pole. In other words I will give everyone I know the same advice as I did in 2016 about the grifters in the RISE and Solidarity parties – take out your insurance policy, play safe, and vote SNP/SNP.
Just to correct a couple of things in chicmacs comment. James Kelly definitely did NOT admit he was wrong in recommending SNP/SNP. I don’t know how chicmac has come to the conclusion that he said anything of the sort. Also, the percentages that chicmac is growing out are nonsensical. There isn’t a cat in hell’s chance of 50% of SNP voters voting other than SNP in the regional ballot. If the numbers of SNP voters who change to Wings were to exceed 5% of the total regional vote, the threshold could be crossed into winning extra seats, and 15% would be fantastic. Highly unlikely but fantastic nevertheless. We need to take our expertise from proven sources, and any SNP voter who is unsure about what to do with their second vote, should read “Scot Goes Pop!”, because unlike some folk, James Kelly is not a member of any party, and is solely concerned with maximising the number of Indy seats.
Darren Adam on LBC (a London Jock?) telling listeners he is a democrat but would he give Scotland another referendum…NO, N O. Also Scotland has so much debt, 54% of the U.K. debt. They would be unable to scrape by. Pooling and sharing yady yady yah…
Professor Sir John (soon to be Lord Brillo of course) Curtice predicts SNP with 51 seats at the next UKGE and comments that they would ‘dominate’ Scots representatives at WM.
Got news for the Prof.
They already ‘dominate’ the Scottish contingent at WM with 35 out of 59 seats.
Saw what you tried to do there, Old Brillo Head.
Therefore the bottom line is this. Scotland voted to remain. England will probably elect a majority that will take us out.
Back to where we started after 3 years. We have been walking round an island in circles looking for a non existent town for 3 years.
Anybody got a compass?
See Nana’s links here:
link to indyref2.space
I missed the name, but there was a refreshing clip on Channel 4 News featuring a high up EU dignitary being asked about Boris and his claims to be making progress with negotiations. “That’s bullshit, bullshit”, but the really interesting bit was he went on to say they had more clarity; clarity they were dealing with right wing English Nationalism, and In as many words, called the Tories a UKIP Government.
It was the first time I’ve seen an EU spokesperson being so refreshingly blunt, but better yet, there was quite deliberate intention to stress the “English” nature of the nationalism. It wasn’t being derogatory, but objective. Maybe I was seeing signs which weren’t there, but it felt for once like the fella was fully up to speed and well briefed about Scotland and Ireland’s relative positions.
Europe is normally studiously impartial, and doesn’t normally get drawn into what we might normally call domestic internal politics, which made his reference to English Nationalism kinda resonate…
I’m sure others will have seen it, and can maybe post a link.
It felt like a good omen for Scotland, but a rather grim omen for Westminster.
.
Why is Johnson still PM when his party do not have a majority in parliament,
even with the DUP the Conservative do not have a majority,
the oposition should form the Government and have `anyone` as PM just to get us a `good deal` brexit.
NO DEAL BREXIT – NO PROBLEM.
JEREMY CORBYN – A VERY BIG PROBLEM.
Jeremy Corbyn. The Bogeyman of the Wealthy in the UK.
“U.K.’s Super-Rich Prepare to Flee From Corbyn Rule, Not Brexit”
link to archive.is
It is easy to see that in Tory Brexit Britain, this government has three priorities : the wealthy, the very wealthy, and the super wealthy.
Philippe Lamberts… Brexit Steering Group it was, interviewed by Gary Gibbons.
Great watch. Phillipe Lamberts a Belgium MEP telling you the truth about Boris and his Tory party.
As he quotes- “It is BULLSHIT. There aren’t any intense negotiations going on. We now have clarification that this is an English nationalist party”
Well done Channel 4 for showing
link to twitter.com
Fun part about prorogue-ing that Johnson hasn’t considered,
All bills that await Royal Assent get it as part of the process. Even if he could delay it in the normal course of events he’s fucked himself.
Next a Queens Speech is, normally, held after an election. In insisting that his a new government he’s also set himself up for what happens if he fails to get it passed. That is he and his government step aside so another may be formed.
The Queens Speech is a de-facto vote of confidence in the Government. However it’s not covered by the Fixed Term Parliament act so no pissing about for 14 days. He goes.
Thank you Capella for that video clip. Liked the part where he says they are supposed to look after all the parts of the UK, but they’re not. “They’re an English National party”. He’s obviously aware of the situation in the UKOK and not just using the word “English” instead of UK.
Wonder how many other MEPs have his awareness, not to mention his opinions?
Yackity, yackity yack…Dreaming of a deus ex machina, an Oliver Cromwell, a Guy Fawkes, laryngitis, Gengis Khan, the plagues of Egypt, Vlad the Impaler…. anything to make this logorrheic assemblage shut up.
Just a dream, unfortunately.
@ naina tal – Yes indeed Phillipe Lamberts is very much on the ball, like Guy Verhofstadt, also Belgian. I wonder if being a small country recently invaded by a larger bullying neighbour has anything to do with sharpened political instincts?
@Thepnr –
(This is the rant I posted last night but there was a ‘banned’ word in it so it went straight to moderation.)
Boris has nae gear oan right enough, but if there’s one thing we know about the man it’s that he doesn’t embarrass easily.
If ‘The Cummings Doctrine’ (what a fuckin great thriller title, eh?) is to send Boris into Brussels/Strasbourg or wherever else ‘over there’ on a gigantic zipwire wearing nothing but a smile and a wee UJ in each hand, he’ll do it. And he’ll get away with it too because the red-tops will cast him as the Lone Ranger, Knight in Shining proverbials etc, a sort of fat El Cid sent in to terrorise the beastly infidels into panicked retreat.
It’s the same mentality as the English (yes, *English*) football yobs who cannot and will never abandon the right to express their superiority over every other nation on this planet by smashing everything in their way before vomiting and urinating over whatever remains.
Where the rest of us see plain old-fashioned fascism and thuggery, they perceive something Arthurian, noble and chivalrous; where the rest of us see a skinny narcissist in a badly-fitting pinstriped demob suit, Rees-Mogg sees himself reclining in an immaculate toga, imperturbability personified, as he composes another perfect paragraph packed with alliteration, bon mots, and classical allusions for his peers to puzzle over; where we see a dysfunctional, embarrassingly archaic institution ready to collapse under the physical weight of so much useless fuckin meat, they will tell anyone who’ll listen (in addition to the tourists, obviously) that this shitehouse, this shambles, this nexus of corruption, vice, hypocrisy (insert your own pejorative abstract noun here – pretty much any will fit) is actually The Mother of All Parliaments.
In the satirical spirit of Swift I offer A Modest Proposal…
Each MP is assigned a number. Those numbers are printed on bingo balls. The Speaker is the caller. Every night, at the close of play, he turns the drum, draws a ball, and the member thus indicated is taken thence to Trafalgar Square where, in front of a specially invited audience (the mob is baying behind barriers not too far away), following some tasteful music, expert commentary, eulogies and appropriately timed parting words from the unfortunate soul, that member is humanely despatched.
This process is repeated at the end of every working day in the HOC until the Brext impasse is resolved.
Anyone reckon they’d take another three years?
?
References to an ‘English National party’, but which one the one on the right, the one in the ‘liberal’ middle or the one on the so called left.
And what exactly is the Scottish variety intending to do about this very English factionalist cock up, offer a wee helping hand?
Ian Blackford on fire last night in WM. Iaid it on the line, said everything which needed saying.
link to mobile.twitter.com
Particularly hilarious was Duncan-Smith interrupting and insisting Blackford be honest and admit he wants to stop Brexit. Doh!?
@ Ian B
Well said.
Because it suits various opposition agendas to leave the clod digging himself/Brexit/No Deal Brexit/the Tory Party/the right wing of the Tory Party/English nationalism (take your pick of any or all of those)into a deeper and deeper morass.
The old adage, “When you find yourself in a hole – stop digging” has a corollary. “When you’re watching your enemy digging a hole – hand him a shovel.”
cadogan Enright says:
pity about the Scot goes Pop rift – why not agree to differ?
Stu is clearly right about the mathematics of a list-only party killing off otherwise undetectable unionists
That being said, I distinctly remember Stu arguing the opposite case in the 2016 elections – so in this he is a convert himself
I suspect the like of James Kelly would come around to the idea if there was some way of ensuring the candidates elected in this way would not spend their time tripping up the SNP and concentrate on any remaining unionists
——————–
easy solution, ask james kelly to stand as one of the list msp candidates. problem solved
I distinctly remember Stu arguing the opposite case in the 2016 elections
————
usually with me 🙂
The most ridiculous aspect of all of this, which is saying something, are those pro independence Scots (especially the SNP acolytes) who support the SNP trying to delay/cancel/water down Brexit.
Why you might ask?
Because the desire for a new Scottish Independence referendum is purely a plea to the ideals of democracy.
Ideals that those who oppose the result of the Brexit referendum (including those whose weasel words include ‘didnt vote to be poorer’, ‘didnt know what they were voting for’, ‘were lied to’ etc) are currently sticking a knife into. Im not sure, once a certain number of Scottish nationalists are done trying to oppose a fully democratic referendum, what respect they expect to receive for their own?
There is nothing that ‘remain’ people are calling for and neither are any of the arguments different from what Scottish nationalists would face should they win an independence referendum. There would be attempts at delay, attempts to water it down to ‘federalism’, fear mongering about how our economy will collapse and complete arseholes telling us how we ‘didnt vote to be poorer’ so we should just have another referendum.
The fact that Scottish independence supporters can be so hypocritical (or so thick) makes me sick to my stomach.
As for economics – I saved and spent thousands and thousands on a private education in economics and finance. My training is to gauge the effects on future GDP growth/contraction and its effect on financial assets such as equities, bonds, foreign exchange etc. The amount of work that goes into a situation like Brexit is not to be underestimated.
That being said the media (who forgot to tell you of the economists who WERE screaming in 2007 that a massive debt collapse is imminent, and then pretended it was a surprise. The same media who told you Scotland is too shitty to be independent) are misguiding people on Brexit.
Its not hard. I left School functionally economically illiterate like the vast majority of people. If the population as a whole could be given 2 days training on real economics there would probably be a revolution within a month. World wide. There would be mass default on sovereign debt, banks would be told to fk off and taxes would drop massively.
Whether its BS on Trump or BS on Brexit people are being lied to on an industrial scale and repeating the lie as if they came to those conclusions themselves. Not that there is nothing wrong with either of those subjects, but its hard watching the lies day after day.
Its harder watching Scottish nationalists repeating the same kind of lies that WILL BE AIMED AT THEM (and were) should they start to succeed.
I’ll be putting my vote/s and arguments towards whichever party will honor the legitimate outcome (which I didn’t vote for) of the Brexit referendum. Until then I don’t see a point in seeking Scottish independence, because that requires a healthy democratic franchise in order to work.
As a side note – the SNP leadership appear to be in league with international groups and forces (the EU is just one) and putting other agendas ahead of Scottish independence. If this party gained power in an independent Scotland the people of Scotland would suffer. You need a strong alternative. (yes, yes, I know Westminster/city of London is full of d*cks that have screwed over half the world. I know that. Doesn’t change my argument.)
So, good luck Rev.Stuart Campbell. Your country needs you and despite your apparent leftist political leaning you’d get my vote in a Scottish election.
Cheers all
Dominic Cummings describes how LEAVE won – talk in April 2018 before the demonisation got underway. 35 mins. Some fascinating insights.
link to youtube.com
Elsewhere in this Benighted Kingdumb:
link to nation.cymru
HI Stuart – If you are going to remove the SCOTGOESPOP link on your website because you are in a huff – can you tell me how I can trust a wings party to behave responsibly? I really think you should reintroduce the link and get a thicker skin. We are all on the same side here.
Wynn Thorne
his site
his rules
Quite incredible really that in the midst of this crisis the opinion polls are indicating that Labour in a General Election would in England still take less seats that the Tories. Adding this to the fact that the Liberal Democrat’s would also take seats, it seems crystal clear that Labour will never be the natural party of England.
Every Scot should understand this message – and indeed probably now does.
Saving England from Brexit might therefore not be the best for Scotland. Saving Scotland from Brexit and Tory eternal rule might be a better option.
SNP MEP Alyn Smith wants to be picked as candidate for the Stirling constituency at the next GE. The Tories currently hold the seat with just a 148 majority.
Meanwhile number cruncher Sir John Curtis has said that it can no longer be presumed that Scotland would vote no to independence.
For Curtis to publicly say that, must surely be a sign that the winds of change are favouring independence now.
Wynn Thorne
Nicola Sturgeon was even more critical of a Wings Party, than James Kelly.
I hope Stu remembers that and that SNP politicians were sookin right up Kezia’s backside.
The people voted, the people know what they voted for, you’re telling the British people you know better than them
All the rabble rousing statements from the Brexiters pumping out now informing their supporters that theirs is not the arrogance but it’s the other side who’s stopping your will
The Brexiters might as well stand outside in the streets and hand out bottles and bricks to throw, they’re troublemakers of the worst kind now using the uninformed population to do their dirty work for them, and it’s dangerous
It seems if they can’t win England they’ll break it
Scottish Independence however is bad, Aye right!
If there is to be a G/E then it should not be held in November due to dark nights and strong possibility of bad weather which would assure a low turnout, best to hold Boris’s feet to the fire until May this would also allow people to feel the effects of Brexit.
North chiel, i dont think they would be able to repeal article 50 after Oct 31, once out, they would have to renegotiate entry, and possibily lose their opt outs and rebates and have to join the euro lol. Off course what should have been going through Parliament this week was a bill to revoke article 50 and then resubmit it once a withdrawal agreement reached, However as we have seen over the last three years they want to leave the club but still get most of the benefits.
As I said to somebody last night, if you are interested in politics its a great time to be alive! What are we going to do with ourselves once Brexit over and Indy gained, we will all have PTSD.
The pro-independence National newspaper is to produce a Welsh version for the people of Wales. A recent YouGov poll put support for Welsh independence at 50% for the first time.
link to thenational.scot
Capella 9.40
Fascinating, succinct insight into how a political campaign can be won.
The SNP would do well to take a leaf from that book?
All the ingredients are there.
Interesting comment was that most communications industry people are bullshitting charlatans.
If that is true about Alyn Smith MEP wanting to stand as an MP for Stirling – I sincerely hope its a ruse.
How on earth is he supposes to carry out his FULL TIME responsibilities representing Scotland physically IN Europe, and then do the same, IN London, while at the same time doing a good job finding out the issues and problem solving for his constituents.
I have no doubt he’s an able man, but he can’t be in 3 places at once. It looks greedy, and like lip service to each full time job.
With the likelyhood that an election will happen within the next 10 weeks its difficult to see how the result of that will not lead to violence.
If Boris wins a majority we get ‘no deal’ brexit. In which case there will probably be riots in England and violence in Northern Ireland along with shortages of essential items.
If there is outcome that leads to Parliament repealling article 50 and staying in the EU. There will probably be riots and violence by hard core brexiteers in and around Parliament.
If the GE produces a government that tried to leave the EU under a negotiated deal ala May’s then there will be violence in Northern Ireland and possibly some in London between disgruntled Brexiteers and Pro-EU factions.
With the above in mind Scottish Indpendence is now an act of International requirement so that an Indpendent Scotland can join the UN and send peace keeping forces and International aid to rUK.
@ Frank Gillougly – indeed. Perhaps the SNP are using something similar but they famously turned down the Cambridge Analytica pitch.
I came across that on a Carole Cadwalladr thread discussing “Brexit: An Uncivil War” where most comments were scathing about Benedict Cumberbatch portraying Dominic Cummings – as if he was tainted through the role! Also, most were blaming Cummings for the decisions of politicians, still are.
Boris Johnston is the one with all the power now and that’s where responsibility lies.
It is an excellent film and still available on All4/ Ch4.
Live tweeting of the Scottish prorogation appeal now from this account.
link to twitter.com
Also tweeting away today and analysing Gina Miller v The Prime Minister:
link to twitter.com link to twitter.com
and from earlier
Thread from @JolyonMaugham explaining info he & I have received from reliable sources about skulduggery by Johnson, Cummings, Da Costa & their lackeys to hide real reasons for #Prorogation from the public, parliament & the courts #Cherrycase
link to twitter.com
link to twitter.com
RepublicofScotland @ 10.30 am
Thanks for that.
Sign and join us on Saturday – or at least spread the message.
link to yes.cymru
link to yes.cymru
@Starlaw 10:29am
Fair enough, but that would push any Indyref to Autumn 2019.
Similar reasoning says you shouldn’t have an Indyref in Summer and you wouldn’t have one concurrent with a GE and you wouldn’t go early on an Indyref before a potentially imminent GE this year.
I don’t believe an Indyref is on the cards this Autumn (possible but unlikely) due to timescale involved and the fact the Bill hasn’t proceeded through the Scottish Parly yet.
If an Indyref is then potentially pushed to Autumn 2020, we’re then in territory where an Indyref could be called a mere 6 month prior to the Scottish Elections. Would it be, or would they just carry on to the 2021 Elections?
I don’t know. That doesn’t answer whether Scotland will already be out of the EU before an Indyref can be called either – much to the annoyance of many I expect.
I’d suggest rather that a GE should occur this year, because that gives a window for an Indyref in Spring 2019. That’s probably just enough to nominally still be under Brexit negotiation (Scotland nominally still in EU) The shitshow has then coalesced into Brexit terms being known, Scotland gains a majority of Indy MP’s and Westminster and the whole rank cabal, has by then become anathema to Scotland.
A Winter of discontent, a Springtime of hope – a Referendum and YES vote.
I try to be optimistic 🙂
Seems appropriate imagery for this thread.
link to twitter.com
Boris’s bro gone
It’s been an honour to represent Orpington for 9 years & to serve as a minister under three PMs. In recent weeks I’ve been torn between family loyalty and the national interest – it’s an unresolvable tension & time for others to take on my roles as MP & Minister.
link to twitter.com
Fireproofjim said at 8:19 pm last night:
” Ian Blackford on fire. Best I’ve heard from any SNP MP.
Scotland demands the right to a second referendum.
We will combine to bring down this government.
On his feet for ten minutes. Great stuff try to catch it. It’s worth it. ”
Here it is here from Commons TV beginning at 20:07:29 ending at 20:17:53 with interjections:
link to tinyurl.com
I read the comment Leftist above.
For me that meant that your outlook was that the country should be run for the benefit of the majority but with everyone taken into account.
Justice, balance and equality for all.
I believe in it and I know the UK will never seek nor attain it, but Scotland can.
By the Left, quick March!
Hi Nana – you beat me to it on Boris Johnston’s brother resigning. That’s the Tory majority down another notch and a family fiasco underway.
Now for all the the links!
BoJo’s premiership is swiftly being defined by Cummings and goings.
@kapelmeister
That’s the best one today. 🙂
PS:
At this rate the nice cosy LibDems will soon be the 3rd largest party at WM, with all these defections. 🙂
All in the National interest of course, nothing to do with self preservation, much.
“ Lenny Hartley @ 1029” if there is no extension beyond 31/10 then ( I assume) we crash out with no deal on 31/10 ( if no GE prior to this date which BJ would have to lose) . Ie it could boil down to “ No deal” or revoke article 50 on 31/10 . If I read this right?
Has Larry resigned yet?
Chaos in England. It’s going to get worse. British nationalists are determined to see Scotland infected by England’s disease.
Nae chance.
Power vacuums such as we have now are always the precursor to
Fertile ground for extremism. The English Nationalists including the Tories will rise on its back. Be aware!!
This is the problem with a supposedly ‘advanced nation’ having no written constitution.
There are many more things open to Johnson, it depends on just how far he s willing to go, how many conventions he is willing to tear up in pursuit of No Deal.
But the time is coming when the public, on all sides of this argument, will become sufficiently annoyed at opposition groups for having no real plan either!
Were the opposition groups to actually come up with a plan, of ANY kind, then I think the majority of the UK voting public would jump at it, mostly out of frustration. What they CAN’T do is actively campaign to ignore the referendum result, any party doing that would never be trusted again. And I include the SNP in this. It is entirely reasonable for SNP to campaign to have Scotland remain as that IS how we voted and by a decent majority BUT I don’t feel it is ours or SNP’s place to tell England & Wales what they should do. NB NI voted remain and I respect THEIR right to campaign to stay in too, they have MUCH more to lose than anyone else.
If the Tories were to offer us our freedom we should, in kind, allow the English & Welsh THEIR freedom to leave the EU. Just because it’s a stupid idea doesn’t mean it’s our place to stop them doing it – they DID have a vote on it after all.
It would make trade with our friends in England & Wales more difficult but not impossible. And, we would STILL have the trade and the protection of EU membership.
The problem seems to be that political parties won’t listen to their own members, never mind the public. As we know from previous polls Brexit enthusiasts are perfectly happy to ‘break up the union’ and see Ireland re-unified and Scotland become free in order to gain Brexit. Were a government to put this to the public they’d vote for it but Tories, Labour and LibDems (yes, I know their position on Brexit) are UTTERLY wedded to ‘unionism’ in their DNA which obviously goes against the grain for many who support them.
As an aside, I’ve always wondered why those who are pro-British in Ulster are called ‘unionists’ Isn’t it the ‘republicans’ who are actually unionists if they want ‘re-unification’?? But then I suppose ‘unionist’ sounds better than ‘separatist’ or ‘dependentist’?
Partion is the Unionist answer:
First day back of FMQs and the Numptiest representative of the Tory Unionist Annie Wells decides to go with the question of the rise of sectarianism in Scotland as demonstrated by the unruly events of last week by blaming the SNP and particularly GCC and SNP leader of that council Susan Aitkin for (paraphrasing) *allowing Catholics to walk the streets in govan at that time*
The FM went through her like a torpedo for even framing the question in this way and pointed out anybody should be able to go anywhere at any time peacefully
So outside to the lobby where *journalist* Ian McWhirter agrees with head Numptie Annie Wells and he also blames the FM and GCC because if the Catholics hadnae been there it would’ve been OK
So it would appear that the Unionist answer to sectarianism is Partition
Funnily enough that’s Rangers football club’s opinion too
Yes we agree that sectarianism is bad and we don’t want it so keep the Catholics away and it won’t happen
They say these things with straight faces as if to say *It’s no us Ma it’s thame it’s thame*
The FM was having none of it
Stephen Kinnocks amendment puts Terrible May’s deal firmly back in play.
It enables the tax dodgers to avoid the Tax Haven Legislation (all disputes are to be judged in UK courts – no ECJ and therefore they don’t have to adopt EU laws).
In every other sense it is a hodge podge, cobbled together mess which is extremely detrimental to UK and Scottish economy.
With no DUP majority to stop it, on the face of it it provides English MP’s with something ‘acceptable’ to vote for.
Such a pity it puts the Irish Border in the sea and enables another part of the UK (NI) to trade under different circumstances to other parts of the UK, and thus breaks the terms and conditions of the Acts/Treaty of Union.
I do hope my SNP reps stand up for us on this one, in Full voice, in Parliament so that no-one can ignore it. I really don’t want to be trusting a judge in a court of law for this one.
Work colleague. Hard Rangers with Unionist decked Mug for his tea.
Now thinking that he will vote SNP
WHAT!!!! iF THIS GUY can move his vote almost anybody can
A wee thought.
Wouldn’t it be nice if the EU, when asked to provide yet another extension – say yes, we will provide you with an extension, for everything except the Tax Haven Legislation, that starts now.
It would separate the wheat from the chaff.
I can dream.
link to petition.parliament.uk
Petition
Official observers from OSCE ODIHR to monitor the next Scottish referendum.
See Craig Murray’s blog. https://www.craigmurray.org.uk
Iain McWhirter has just plummeted even further than before.
Ian B , I like your thinking right up to the point where they are dispatched humanely – my ‘humanity’ is on a constant dwindle at the moment.
Handbook
On Media Monitoring for
Election Observation Missions
link to osce.org
Ian Brotherhood says:
5 September, 2019 at 9:02 am
In the satirical spirit of Swift I offer A Modest Proposal…
Each MP is assigned a number. Those numbers are printed on bingo balls. The Speaker is the caller. Every night, at the close of play, he turns the drum, draws a ball, and the member thus indicated is taken thence to Trafalgar Square where, in front of a specially invited audience (the mob is baying behind barriers not too far away), following some tasteful music, expert commentary, eulogies and appropriately timed parting words from the unfortunate soul, that member is humanely despatched.
——————–
Another Modest Proposal, for a new televised National Lottery:
In an independent Scotland anyone making ten times the average wage enters a draw. The lucky winner has all their wealth taken from them and given to a security guard, cleaner, bin collector, etc. They’re then trained to themselves become a security guard, cleaner, bin collector. They remain in this job for five years or they’re jailed.
We’re not beheading the lucky winner here. We’re giving them a job. And we’re not stripping the wealth from *all* rich people — just one lucky winner a week. And those who don’t fancy entering the draw can always drop down to just nine times the national wage.
A good laugh, good for social cohesion, and the predator class would suddenly start paying a lot more attention to the living conditions of working class people. Maybe the Wings party could adopt this as its other flagship policy.
Article in the Mail reveals there is something rotten in the State of Denmark as Damian Green sends letter to PM Johnson.
Furious Tory MPs accuse Dominic Cummings of overseeing a ‘Stalinist purge’ of the Conservative Party
The letter was sent after Tory veteran MP Sir Roger Gale tore into Mr Cummings and labelled him a ‘foul-mouthed oaf’.
Sir Roger said: ‘I feel it’s been handled appallingly. I think the fact that you have at the heart of Number 10, as the prime minister’s senior adviser, an un-elected foul-mouthed oaf throwing his weight around is completely unacceptable.
‘I think that if the Prime Minister doesn’t have Dominic Cummings, the man I’m talking about, frog-marched out of Downing Street himself, then the chances are it will not be the Tory rebels as they are called, it won’t be Mr Corbyn. It will be Mr Cummings that will bring down this administration.
link to archive.fo
Poor Boris getting it from all directions, my heart bleeds LOL
That graph can now be taken out to the toe of his shoe with -44
Jack Murphy@11.29.
And this is worth highlighting from IB’s speech:
“This house should respect the sovereignty of the Scottish people and our rights to determine our own future.
“This house must respect the Scottish Parliament and in particular the mandate the Scottish Government has for a referendum on independence.
“It should be Scotland’s right to choose its own future, not the right of this Prime Minister or any other in Westminster to tell Scotland that our votes no not matter, that we cannot determine when Scotland votes in an independence referendum.
“We relish a General Election, because we want to stop Brexit for good, we want to stop this Prime Minister, to stop the Tories.
“Once no-deal has been blocked, MPs across this house on the opposition benches to bring down this government, not on the Prime Minister’s terms but on the right terms.
“Time is of the essence, over the next few days, in order to remove the cliff edge and to remove this shambolic, irresponsible and incompetent Tory government from office.”
While the fine words above were directed at the jeering tribe across the chamber, they were intended for a far more important audience – the people of Scotland.
The simple message? That you have the power to decide your country’s future, and no one else.
But there’s something else. It looks like there will be a vote on an October 15 GE on Monday.
Corbyn has already vowed that he would back a GE once legislation prohibiting an exit from the EU without a deal became law.
But now the smoke signals have changed (no surprise there) and it appears Labour is having a rethink.
Now, says Starmer, it would be better to wait until an extension to the October 31 deadline is granted. That would mean no GE until November at the earliest.
There aim of course is to seek narrow party political advantage from a very dangerous situation – let Johnson stew and we will reap the dividend at the ballot box, should the EU play ball.
So there’s a good chance on Monday night that Labour will turn down a GE AGAIN.
However, this time the grounds for the vote could be different in that BoJo could bring in a rule stating that a simple majority of MPs, not 2/3, will be all that is needed to trigger a GE.
And in that scenario, with all that is at stake for Scotland, what the SNP parliamentary group decides to do could assume huge significance.
All hinges on when NS and IB think the time is right to decouple from a pan-UK stance on Brexit to seek a Scotland-only solution, for the sake of our country.
Petition for Official International Observers for Next Scottish Independence Referendum, from Craig Murray
Signed. Hope some prominent peeps do likewise. No excuses.
link to petition.parliament.uk
The Express says …. “Trump ‘ready willing and able’ to negotiate free trade deal with UK”
…. as if that’s a good thing!
@Unionist Media BDSM Club –
We could be on to something here – we should ask Stuart Cosgrove if CH4 might be up for it on the basis that it satisfies specific criteria relating to social inclusion, pushing broadcasting boundaries etc.
😉
Yes everyone should sign Craig Murray’s petition. We’ll definitely need outside observers on this one.
link to petition.parliament.uk
May as well be the first –
Et tu, Jo?
Oh well, if you fly with the classical references…
Meanwhile, in the north of Ireland:
link to web.archive.org
Gary @ 1.15
I don’t agree,we are in this Bloody Union at this point in time.
So therefore we are entitled to take our own position on Brexit and fight for it.
What else can our SNP MPs do? Just sit back and allow the English MPs to wave it on through?
While I don’t for a minute like that we are part of the Union we are. Therefore we should play our full part and that’s what we pay the SNP to to on our behalf!
As for the English voter’s,yes, of course they should get what they vote for,but they must also realise they are
part of the UK Union too and this is a price they have to pay fur it!
Of Course there is an obvious solution where Everybody gets what they want every time! 🙂
Hmm! The ‘finger pointing’ letter presented to the Higher Court in Scotland this morning is mentioned by a Lord that it is very ‘revealing’ and,… wait for it, such tactics and strategies would never have happened in his day. Aye! 🙁
Mind you he doesn’t rate Boris or his Grima Wormtongue underling.
Graham to lead Young Conservatives Campaign to Win Over Millennial Voters
The campaign follows yet another relaunch of the much-maligned Young Conservatives following nearly three years in mothballs after bullying scandals and other inappropriate behaviours.
Led by Graham, it is being developed in conjunction with Tory activists of the recently formed, well funded “rust-belt Tory” group which operates in Scotland and the north of England and is aimed at appealing to a generation of young voters who the Tories claim is not as left-wing as portrayed.
Leading the Young Conservatives and discharging the duties of PPS in Theresa May’s cabinet office begs the question:
“Where does he find the time for constituency matters?”
The constituents of Ochil and South Perthshire are being short-changed yet again by a carpet bagger from England.
link to caltonjock.com
Ian Blackford on question time tonight @ 10.35.
Jings! Luke Graham and Bill Grant speaking in the commons for the Union there are arses!
Both telling us that the UK monies favour Scotland and how grateful we should be.
Bill Grant hardly able to read his speech properly a real proud Scots butt.
Two proud bridges bridges Tay and Forth long before Chinese steel etc etc FGS! Smirking at his jolly quips.
Both soon to be gone. 🙂
link to petition.parliament.uk
signed Craig Murrays petition. please sign and share. We Need impartial monitoring on the next indy ref if possible.
Liz g says:
5 September, 2019 at 2:47 pm
Gary @ 1.15
I don’t agree,we are in this Bloody Union at this point in time.
So therefore we are entitled to take our own position on Brexit and fight for it.
What else can our SNP MPs do? Just sit back and allow the English MPs to wave it on through?…
But Liz, why save the UK from Brexit only to destroy it by Scottish Independence? Don’t you think that reeks of duplicity just a wee bit?
Isn’t it a cleaner job to let the polarities of Brexit already dividing the UK complete the dividion according to the established fact we have an England which emphatically wants Brexit and a Scotland which emphatically doesn’t? Why heal the fissure only to reopen it again?
Brexit will break the back of the Union. Who are we trying to impress by preventing Brexit from happening?
Why not deliver our constitutional red line / ultimatum, Scotland said no, so Westminster, if you proceed with Brexit, on you go, but understand the Union is at an end when you do.
defo @ 2.22
Have signed the petition
@Breeks
Are you still of the opinion that there are 56 days until Brexit?
The Brexit game is being played out in England, Nowhere else.
Keith Taylor in the Guardian comments. With 1439 likes.
“Jess Phillips for PM.
Her speech in parliament yesterday perfectly captured the frustration we’re all feeling – Leavers and Remainers alike – at the refusal of the PM, his government, and for that matter the political class as a whole, and the media that feeds on it, to grace the British people with a basic degree of honesty and respect.
We’re in this situation because of an absence of honesty. We’re here because for decades we’ve been repeatedly and deliberately deceived about the EU, our role in it, and the true costs and benefits of membership. Many of those lies were born in the diseased, narcissistic mind of the Prime Minister himself, a bored journalist sowing mischief with all the responsibility of a child playing with matches, and as a result we’ve found ourselves in a toxic environment, pointlessly fighting an imaginary enemy while our real problems have for years gone unaddressed.
Millions of people honestly and fervently believe that leaving the EU will make their lives better because for years politicians, journalists and assorted toxic individuals have assured them that this is the case. They were lying, and they’re still lying, and we can’t hope to get past this until the liars are held to account.”
Loungin’ Larry eh?!
Aye was havin’ ah think tae masel, an ye ken how Scotland and the UK are both governments… ah’d never heard anyone refer to the EU as the “EU Government” afore, so ah had ah wee swatch online and aye only found one website that used this phraseology…
The website is called “independentbritain” (dot plop), an here’s what they had to say:
THEY were from the Leave campaign ha ha ha ha ha
To remind readers:
1) The UK union is a political union
2) The EU union is an economic union
Anybuddy gotta futon?
We have no wish to see our neighbours, family or anyone on the other side of the fence politically, devastated by any Brexit, it’s not fucking rocket science, I would rather our Scottish government did everything in ‘our’ power to to wreck the UK gov’s Brexit shambles than sit back and for the least of us to suffer the devastation of fully blown Brexit (hard, soft, or no deal), because it will be the least of us that suffer the most.
Our independence on the back of suffering that we had an opportunity to be part of the prevention of that suffering, is not a price worth paying, as Lizg said we are sill part of the UK and we are the only fucking adults in the room.
I despise Ideologues…from our side and theirs and take great issue with anyone suggesting we ‘use’ this…means justifying the ends…mentality.
We don’t have to…they are doing it for us, and NS and the SNP are in the process of making sure we do have a say in how this plays out over the next wee while.
I also cannae be dain wi panic merchants.
Hahaha Paul Kellner of Yougov believes the SNP might be the only party that support the Tory government on Monday when Johnson seeks to win a vote for another election.
He claims they are “split over the issue”. When pressed he said “well that’s what I’m hearing”. Hmmm? 🙂
Breeks says:
5 September, 2019 at 3:26 pm
“why save the UK from Brexit only to destroy it by Scottish Independence? Don’t you think that reeks of duplicity just a wee bit?”
No, I don’t think it does. This is a bipartite union of equals therefore one partner has as much right as the other to determine the direction of travel of the United Kingdom of Great Britain. Giving in, as you expect us to do, means to give up also our main horse battle: the fact that the legitimate representatives of our equal partner are trashing our democracy, trashing our constitution, our laws and our democratic structures without our consent to impose on us brexit by force just for the sake of a handful of elite VIP taxdodgers, hedge funds, tory neocons and foreign interests.
Sorry, that is unacceptable.
“Isn’t it a cleaner job to let the polarities of Brexit already dividing the UK complete the dividion”
No, actually that is from where I am standing rather hypocritical and lazy. You expect that brexit will break the UK without taking into account that the English establishment will do everything in its hand, including fudging laws etc to retain Scotland’s assets. We have already seen how the constitutional case brought by Ms Cherry has outrageously been dismissed as “political”. I have no doubt that establishment will do what it can to stop the union being dissolved. No, this has to be an active process, not a passive process that relies on a partner that does not want to dissolve the union.
“according to the established fact we have an England which emphatically wants Brexit and a Scotland which emphatically doesn’t”
Then the correct, democratic and constitutional procedure must be followed. The kingdom of England voted against the status quo. It is therefore now for the Kingdom of England to decide if it should dissolve the treaty of union in order to leave the EU or rather preserving the UK by remaining in the EU. I do not see why we have to clean up the mess created by England’s representatives by running our own referendum while they sit back and do nothing. No, this is the Kingdom of England’s mess and it should be for the Kingdom of Engalnd to clean it in full.
“Why heal the fissure only to reopen it again?”
You are being shortsighted, incredibly shortsighted.
First, if there is really a fissure between the paths that Scotland and England want to follow, then they are not going to “heal” by stopping brexit, they are going to open even more and become deeper. Secondly, brexit is not being pushed by the average England or Wales citizen. Brexit is being pushed by VIP taxdodgers desperate to avoid EU tax avoidance laws, by neocons desperate to see our NHS privatised and by foreign interests desperate to put their paws on every asset we still retain. Those interests are not just going to fold and disappear. Case in point is how an England MP, acting as PM and with aristocratic background has teamed up with the monarch to whom is distantly related to attempt to unilaterally impose absolute rule by rushing through laws without scrutiny or challenge from our legitimate representatives, never mind the constitution and never mind the Claim of Right.
From where I am standing, the SNP is doing the right thing: to push those unhealthy interests behind brexit right against the wall so they are the ones who actually make the choice: or Scotland or brexit, because they cannot and should not be allowed the luxury of having both.
As you can see it is working: the UK parliament is in chaos, the UK government is just a carcass and the political arms of the English establishment are desperate to avoid a GE because they fear the result.
“Brexit will break the back of the Union”
No, it will not be brexit who breaks the back of the union, it will be the aristocrats, VIP taxdodgers, foreign interests, tax havens, neocons and 3 totally useless arms of the English establishment who will.
“Who are we trying to impress by preventing Brexit from happening?”
Who gives a sht about impressing anyone here? This is not a theatrical performance. This is not a matter of “impressing” anyone, this is a matter of pushing the unhealthy interests behind brexit and the greedy opportunistic that are riding the wave of brexit to neuter Holyrood and illegitimately steal our powers, right against the wall until they feel they cannot longer breath.
“Why not deliver our constitutional red line / ultimatum”
And “no brexit” is the ultimatum. Do you actually see the amoebas in labour, tories and even the hypocrite libdems uttering anything about stopping brexit? No. They only talk about stopping a “no deal” brexit. The electorate is not stupid, Breeks, we are all watching this and watching how the sensible option in the present circumstances, that is revoking A50 is being dismissed by the Establishment parties for a utopia brexit that does not exist.
“Scotland said no, so Westminster, if you proceed with Brexit, on you go, but understand the Union is at an end when you do”
No good enough. Scotland is an equal partner in this union and therefore its voice should be as bloody effing loud as that of the Kingdom of England and its corrupt representatives. The kingdom of England, its VIP taxdodgers and aristocratic representatives may say yes to brexit, Scotland and Scotland’s people say, hell NO.
If the kingdom of England wants brexit, it can dissolve the treaty first and then get its beloved brexit. I do not see hwy we should bend backwards and forwards to step over our own democratic vote so England’s ruling elite, once again, gets what it wants while it completely trashes what we want.
I hope the SNP stays strong and keeps pushing, and pushing and pushing until those VIP taxdogers and neocons cannot longer breath under the threat of remaining in the EU. I really wish the EU bigwigs totally derailed the wheels of the taxdodgers and deflated their arrogance by announced that they are willing to give another A50 extension but only on the condition that the EU tax avoidance regulations and enforced transparency of tax havens must be implemented and enforced in the UK and dominions in full and with immediate effect. Take it or leave it. That would indeed make my day and certainly would cool and focus the minds of the VIP taxdogers behind brexit rather quickly.
@K1
Amen to that.
Tatu3
Good guy/gal. Ta.
There’s ample evidence our adversaries played dirty last time, no bacofoil reqd.
I’d hope EVERYONE will be asking for outside, impartial observers at some point in this game.
It’s a vote winner, as people don’t like repeat mugging.
Fool me once…
Well said Maria F.
Kellner’s a fanny 🙂
@Maria F
And a big Amen to that too.
Things are looking up!
We have the evil bastards on the run, that’s what they are bastards who starve the poorest children and have schools forming their own foodbanks.
They have kicked away the crutches of the disabled and literally have starved people to death with their cruelty using sanctions because of IDS obsession with “Universal Credit”.
I won’t forget the horrid pictures of that poor guy in Liverpool whose life was ended because of these bastards.
But things are looking up because the MSM can’t keep lying forever, the Tories right wing take over is OVER. Johnson threw the dice and he’s lost.
Johnson and Cummings are on the back foot, I only wish that Corbyn wasn’t such an idiot because he has the power to deal a death blow to the government. By steeping down and putting someone who is electable in charge it would be game over.
Nothing is impossible so who knows what happens next.
Maria F@4.20pm
Nicely done – on every point.
Is there anybody that you would make Prime Minister
In the Labour or Fib Dem Party?
Corbyn, McDonald, Watson, Abbott, or Jolly Hockey Sticks Swinson????
I wouldn’t let them run my bath.
For the Tories – Hunt’s name has the wrong first letter, Javid looks like an alien
And he hates immigrants? Rees-Mogg could get a servant in to be PM for him
Or an extra from Downtown Abbey.
Not Pritti Patel who went off on her own accord to tell over countries how
Great she and Tory Britain is?
Great post by Maria F !!
Just think, all those shreeking voices clamouring for indyref2 in 2016, imagine watching this shambles in front of us today, but with the lifeboat already launched and no more left on the ship (had we lost an early indyref).
Those people are either
A) Glad they were proved wrong.
B) Beelin’ we waited.
o/t
Thread of government documents now released. Remember that the govt was allegedly telling courts and the press at this point that it had no plans for prorogation of parliament.
link to twitter.com
Policy editor for the Times.
Five days before he announced plans for an election Boris Johnson told the Cabinet there were “no plans for an early General Election” official minutes released as part of a Scottish court case reveal 1/2
link to twitter.com
Given at that point Johnson already knew of MPs plans to force him to extend Article 50 – that has to come quite close to misleading the cabinet 2/2
link to twitter.com
Anyone doubt that Boris Johnson is a lair? His own brother doesn’t even trust him and he lies to his cabinet. I can’t make my mind up whether he is Caligula or Nero. What I do know is that he is totally unsuitable to be a Prime Minister.
Let’s just cut the chord, no point hanging on. The cards he holds are a busted flush. I’m a Scot, get me out of here!
Auld Bob seems to have gone missing again.
I hope that he is OK.
Gus1940@5.17pm
He said he was finished with posting on Wings after a pack of wolves ganged up on him. Let’s hope he changes his mind.
Hahaha it’s all over for Boris, that speech, OMFG it was awful. 🙂
No one can believe him now, that man is BURNT TOAST!
I used to think that May was the most incompetent Prime Minister that the UK had ever had. I was wrong?
“I’d rather be dead in a ditch” said Johnson rather than ask the EU for an extension.
Oh FFS I can’t take this any more Hahahahahahahahahahahaha 🙂
He might not end up in a ditch but as a PM he is dead as a Dodo.
Watching Boris blathering on the BBC news channel. He’s just said he’d rather be “dead in a ditch” than go back and ask the EU for an extension.
So, just to recap. HoC and HoL’s have approved a bill for LBJ to negotiate on UK’s behalf – either a deal or an extension (which the EU have no obligation to provide). Boris is not competent to negotiate something he wants, never mind on a position he doesn’t believe in.
Just to muddy the waters – multi millionaires son – Stephen Kinnock managed to add an amendment – which gives parliament one more chance to argue/vote on Terrible Mays deal – which will be devastating for Scotland’s economy – and also break the terms of Act of Union. And which by some ‘miracle’ managed to get voted through by ‘mistake’ – aye right.
Parliament prorogues on 9th September until 14/10/19.
There might be a VoNC (again) on Monday (I can’t see this being refused by the Speaker given the current impasse, and also because it is not a Bill as such, rather a procedure) and if it goes through this time… and no Govt of Unity formed – the statutory rules state it is the outgoing PM who SETS THE DATE of the new GE. There is no way I can see for anyone to stop him setting the date for after 31/10/19.
The very last day they can call a GE before 31/10/19 is 13th September 2019.
Folks I strongly suspect the conscious being displayed by all those old timer hard core Tories (who have waited until the very last minute to act), is a front to ‘rescue’ the party and there is going to be good auld British pantomime whereby they ‘compromise’ and vote at the last possible minute for Terrible May’s deal.
It will take a little longer to fully wreck the UK economy and sell it off to America, but it will still be done.
In any event, once again it will burn the clock down, and make it look like they are really trying.
The British Establishment can live with either Terrible Mays deal (2nd choice) or No Deal – both save the Tax Havens. No Deal makes them a quick buck selling the NHS, and creates chaos, from which state of emergency, shut down Holyrood. Terrible May’s deal just does it slower.
One way or another I don’t see anyway we are going to get a GE before 31/10/19 – which means we are out of the EU, and the layer of security it offers. Holyrood is on borrowed time.
No-one is talking about revoking S 50 anymore. A Government of Unity with JC and JS to save us from Brexit ? Does not fill me with hope.
Has anyone asked for opinion from the Dug in her ‘think’ tank?
Thought not 🙂
Expect frequent use of the phrase ‘hands tied’ over the next few weeks.
BURN BURN BURN!!
What a fucking shambles from “Charlie” Johnson. Sniff.
Should the police standing behind Boriscone not be out chasing criminals instead of having to stand there looking bored.
What a total car-crash of an interview BoJo has just delivered!!
@Thepnr
Couldn’t watch the speech washed the dishes there instead. 🙂
Hot chilli Peffers went away to have a think and I’m sure he’ll be back at some point . I hope so anyway. Miss his input.
See Radio shortbread is rescheduling and have dropped the Media review programme which is / was a wee bright spot now no more.
They are hunkering in for a last stand and getting their ducks in a line for when ‘winter comes’ the election.
They’ll have to work hard to earn a crust this time round as all the big beasts are gone or discredited, any that are left wont relish a fight,and the arguments are all won and that’s without looking darn Sarf. Besides they can all smile on Independence day and pretend that really it was all a friendly disagreement.
There’s not enough red squirrels to point at or cats up a tree, it will be lots of ‘non reporting’ and maybe some old films with a war theme.
I wont even mention the three unionist party’s joining up that would be a disaster as there is one brain cell among them.
@gus1940
I think they are new recruits and this is their passing out parade and the guest of honour was Boris Johnson. Oh dear bu is wasn’t there fault having to stand there and listen to that.
Not surprised that one of them fainted.
Ian Blackford on BBC Question Time tonight but up against 3 Tories/Brexit party reps on panel of six so he won’t get much of a say.
Outrageous BBC Radio Scotland scrapping Thursday lunchtime Media Review the only intelligent scrutiny while we are inundated by London centric TV reviews that NEVE
NEVER have pro indy commentators or cover The National’s excellent front pages
What’s this? Parties working together. From the Times.
Boris Johnson’s election hopes have been hit by an emerging deal between Labour and the SNP to block a poll before the next Brexit delay.
Jeremy Corbyn met Ian Blackford, the Scottish nationalists’ Westminster leader, today to agree that the election must take place only after Britain has secured another extension from the European Union.
link to thetimes.co.uk
Doesn’t archive in case you’re wondering.
Sinky……don’t write off Ian Blackford on QT tonight. If anyone can hold his own….it’s Ian
Rees- Mogg’s true character being exposed each time he has to stand up as Leader of The House. Not such a nice guy.
Into this unholy mess that England now finds itself … Don’t mention the cricket! (Guffaw).
Breeks @ 3.26
Sorry was called away shortly after I posted…
Anyhoo…
Right back at ye Breeks, Why allow the Union to pull us out of the EU while our representatives talk about something else?
Cleaner? Cleaner?
We tried to leave the Union “cleanly” in 2014 and a fair few Scots couldn’t or wouldn’t see what a shit show it really was!
Well now we’ve a chance to show that it is exactly that, and we should be churning that shit for all we are worth.
We need to let everyone see for themselves that they too will get covered in Westminster shit unless we leave.
After we’ve gone then they can get on with it.
But don’t be forgettin, they owe us and they owe us big,and I’d like them to be in a position to pay what they owe!
Listening to the Holyrood debate earlier….
OMFG….. Some Labour guy stood up and interrupted Ross Grear form the Greens…
Apparently all this PROVES that Westminster actually works and he’s worried stuff like that couldn’t be done in Holyrood if the Holyrood Government went rouge!!!!!
Now I never saw the end so I don’t know if anyone addressed it,but Ross Grear wasn’t quick enough to point out..
The Westminster Parliament only got to do what it’s doing because of WHO the speaker IS.
A different speaker would have produced a different outcome…
So in addition to a Monarch,elected by no one,a Prime Minister elected by some Tories we also have a Speaker elected by Westminster it’s self ( where again Scotland is massively out voted ) making the decisions…
What is it with these people who can argue for so much power in so few hands……
Sinky 5.44pm: BBC Scotland clearly decided some time ago not to promote independence by the simple expedient of not talking about it or as little as possible, therefore very few programmes on Scottish politics. At a stroke they avoid criticisms of bias if they have no programmes on the topic and it helps maintain the status quo of an English cum London centric diet.
@Gus1940 5.17 pm
After attacking a comment by Clapper57 and then attacking her personally in an unwarranted and outrageous manner a number of posters expressed sympathy with her. He then attacked each of them, doubling down on his original attack and accusing posters of being sleeper agents and all sorts.
Far from being driven away he then continued to post prolifically for a few days after until it dawned on him that even previously sympathetic posters felt he had gone too far.
He has therefore flounced off but there is no doubt he will be back as he feels his voice is too important to be silenced.
Far from being attacked by a pack of wolves, he goaded and taunted posters to engage with him and when they would not he tried to justify his tantrum with his usual excuses.
His history ‘lessons’ were repetitive, concrete and lacking in any opposing view and recently his understanding of more current problems in the SNP seemed flawed.
Only those who agree with his frightened, divisive and narrow view of what an Independence supporter should say and think will miss him.
“See that essenpee and Scotland…they will have no chance of rejoining the EU”
A regularly chundered line from the Rabid Britnat mob.
Except, nobody told our european friends: link to newsnet.scot
Are we now only allowed to agree with “some views” of what an indy supporter should post. What is permissable?
What next? Exclusion from wings?.
Boris beat you to that one already.
Come back Robert Peffers. You pay—you can say.
RobertThe Truth@6.32pm
A Britnat wolf howling at the moon because his UK is falling apart. Not enjoying your clown of a PM making a fool of himself.
‘Narcissists, for example, need admiration the way addicts need substances. They believe they are truly special and yet not appreciated for their gifts, which can lead them to act entitled, as if the rules do not apply to them. In their quest for recognition, they sometimes exploit others, contradict what they’ve said, and break their promises — all the while arguing for (and often truly believing in) their new, alternative facts. Once we know this, (their) tendency to revise history becomes unsurprising and explicable…In this agitated state, narcissists are notoriously bad at negotiating, as it turns out. (They are good at bullying, which is not the same thing.)…Typically, when all else fails and narcissists are unable to get the attention and affirmation they need, they play the victim’
link to medium.com
‘The United Kingdom, at the moment, seems almost leaderless’
link to newyorker.com?
Indeed -whilst the UK is dying in a ditch Scotland,the country, is not leaderless and without direction. Energised and motivated to climb out of that ditch.
Please sign this petition
It’s a petition asking for independent observers from the EU when Scotland has its ndepebdemce referendum
link to petition.parliament.uk
Talking of addicts (Phronesis @7.10), BBC Scots news banging on about drug deaths all day again. Lost track of number of methadone users this time.
What’s the agenda here?
Scots NHS shite? Scotland shite? SNP Government shite? or “Look! – a Squirrel?” distraction from the bigger things going on in these strange times.
I’ve said it before, and I guess it’s callous, but I’m not going to weep over dead addicts and don’t believe that subject a vote winner/loser (depending on your side)…
Jeez, watched that BJ speech and it was so dire that I am beginning to feel sorry for him. 🙂
Maybe that’s the plan.
Will Boris Johnson goad MPs to impeach him by refusing to ask EU for Brexit delay?
A conspicuously rattled and tired Boris Johnson – flanked surrealy by the police in Wakefield – just said he would “rather be dead in a ditch” than obey the expected new law that would force him to ask the EU for a Brexit delay.
Which carries only two implications.
Johnson could quit as Prime Minister before the EU summit on October 17 and bequeath to some other temporary prime minister the gift of suing the EU for a Brexit delay…
…more likely – and some of his Brexiter supporters are urging him to do it – he could break the new law, refuse to sign the letter requesting a Brexit delay and dare Parliament to impeach him, under ancient and rarely used rules.
Will he? Won’t he? Who cares, he’s a dead man walking.
link to archive.fo
His mum could sign it, along with the note excusing him from the EU as he has a cold.
So it’s true – the Media Revue on R Scotland, Thursday lunchtime just after FMQs, has been axed by the BBC. The only thing that was worth listening to IMO. Eamonn O’Neill was told after he came off air today. Dire decision.
Stu Cosgrove was also very insightful on the news and media. So that’ll be why it has to go.
link to twitter.com
Footsoldier says: at 5 September, 2019 at 6:32 pm
“BBC Scotland clearly decided some time ago not to promote independence”
A guy I know was on Call Kaye a few days ago on debate trailed as Brexit and Indy ref2. As soon as he mentioned independence Kaye interrupted and turned the conversation back to Brexit and allowed one of the numerous Brexiteers on the programme to talk over him.
@Capella
Enjoyed listening and most days it wasn’t too controversial but occasionally there were some gems.
Best shut them down just in case wrong message eh? 🙂
Straight out of the Trump playbook use your position to bully name call .Go to an event using Police Trainees as a backdrop one has to sit down look round don’t help just carry on.
Very interesting take on Boris by Robert Peston. He has heard that Boris has been urged by senior Tories NOT to sign the new Brexit law, and he is actually considering this.
He is potentially provoking Parliament to impeach him when he refuses.
This becomes madder by the minute.
Another Union Dividend @ 8-48pm
Think I caught that particular call-in (his name was David if I recall correctly) who was interrupted for the traffic/weather etc., but was assured (ahem) that he would be right back on after the weather.
He wasn’t.
First up after the weather was some Tory/Lab/Lib Dum (not sure which) MEP lady who spouted (uninterrupted) the usual..”I’m a proud Scot but….”
On reflection…that cant be right because you stated it was a Brexiteer…right?
Remember Rees-Mogg disgraceful behaviour to the neurologist who helped draft Operation Yellowhammer that called in on his LBC show to ask what mortality rate he would find acceptable.
Rees-Mogg poo pooed him and screamed “PROJECT FEAR” at the doctor.
Well now the Chief Medical Officer for England has written to him and given the naughty boy a skelp on the arse.
I have written to @Jacob_Rees_Mogg to express my sincere disappointment and show my support for doctors across the country, particularly @djnicholl.
Doctors are amongst the most trusted people in our country; it is worth listening to what they have to say with respect.
Full letter here.
link to twitter.com
I realise there are many “Scot Indy” supporters who voted to leave the EU, and obviously the many “southern cousins”.
A simple question is what did you vote leave for?
After 3 years of blinkered media bias on behalf of the “establishment” I have come to a simple conclusion.
Why did you vote leave?
I won.
What did you think you were voting on?
I won.
Did you have any idea what damage the “establishment” deliberately failed to tell you would happen to you and your family?
I WON.
What did you win?
I WON and you can’t take it away from ME, cause I have WON SOMETHING.
Decades of delusion, heartbreak, media brainwashing, making generations feel worthless, the list is endless, but the current Westminster shambles?? surely it has to be better than that, “mother of all parliaments”??? Aye that will be shining, laughing stock for the world to see.
Is this too simple a conclusion?
God knows where we are headed.
The pnr @ 9-13 pm
He also stated that if Rees-Mogg cared to come outside the confines of Westminster (where he is protected from liability) and repeat his comments he would sue him.
Well done Doctor.
My memory is getting worse so I can’t remember the substance of the stushie involving Ian Small of BBC Scotland and coverage of it on the Media Review where he deigned to appear as a ‘special guest’ and was forensically deballed by Beattie and O’Neill (I’m not even sure if Cosgrove was present that day).
There was surely a post or two about it right here, but when?
Anyone remember?
The point is – the BBC remember. This could be payback time.
🙂
PS Thepnr, you are on splendid form sah, don’t think I’ve ever heard you so cheery. And some people wonder how anyone can find politics enjoyable!
😉
@Ian Brotherhood
Alas I’m the opposite of cheery, I’m effing pissed off and I want them to know it 🙂
Ian Brotherhood @ 9-41pm
…”and some people wonder how anyone can find politics enjoyable”
You know who I think isn’t enjoying politics enjoyable?…Yep…you guessed BJ.
I seriously think he may chuck it in the very near future.
He really..REALLY doesn’t like it when he’s confronted with resistance (especially from his brother).
*sorry* 2 many ‘enjoyables’..lol
Should of course read’finding’.
I enjoyed correcting masel there.
Interesting post from “ Daisy Walker @ 0536 pm”, you might be right on this Daisy. One thing is for sure , any “ final outcome” outwith no deal will have to “ factor in “ preservation of the “ precious precious union “ . Bojo & the “ English nationalists” plan for No deal & thereafter crush Scottish democracy ( whatever it takes up to & including suspending Holyrood indefinitely in conjunction with probable state of emergency . Note Boris with Police force “ behind him” in today’s latest stage managed propaganda production . Thereafter it will be the military somewhere down the line.)
However, it looks like the Britnat establishment may now be reconsidering the TM “ terrible”deal , as you say ( the propaganda outlets would try to portray this as a “ soft Brexit compromise” to fool the electorate and “ scare “ into acceptance the wavering parliamentarians ( when as you say it is anything but a soft Brexit and this deal would facilitate the tax Havens etc ) . Interesting that TM has been sitting in close proximity to “ Father of house” Ken Clarke . (Perhaps a further internal Tory party coup is underway and BJ has been instructed by the establishment hierarchy to “ commit political ”Hari Kari”?
It will be interesting how the state run propaganda outlets portray the “ combatants” once the election campaign gets underway . Perhaps BJ might not lead the Tories in that campaign . Could it even be possible that the Britnat establishment could even contemplate having the Britnat 2nd eleven in government and thereafter a soft SM/CU compromise deal with long transition period ? This would both attempt to disarm the SNP and the move to independence ( although our FM could have a very strong hand post GE ), and take the “ heat of the Tories” and allow them to “ regroup around a “ new centre leadership ? ( assuming the BJ right wing coup is overturned)..
whatever Britnat establishment “ manoeuvres “ is “ ongoing” , assuredly the “ precious precious union “ will be “ weighing heavily” within the Heirarchy “ pulling the strings” at the very highest level . The PM at the end of the day is only “ the front man or woman” for the “ powers that be “ who really pull the strings “ . Bojo will do whatever he is instructed to do “ for Queen& country “
Media review
Too many independent minds at work reviewing the media from a Scots perspective.
Shut it down.
Breaking News
Scientists find that the moderate wing of the Tory Party is melting away at an alarming rate, faster than previously thought. Experts warn that boorishness levels will rise and are dubbing this the Francois Effect.
Ian Brotherhood @ 9.41 pm
It’s a good thing the internet doesn’t forget! 😉
link to wingsoverscotland.com
link to wingsoverscotland.com
North chiel , daisy walker, if you check out
link to en.m.wikipedia.org
This guy and the Alt Right in the US of A are the driving forces behind Brexit along with the right in the UK. Whilst getting out of EU tax avoidance legislation is a priority , the main goal is the break up of the EU which is seen by the USA as a competitor which must be weakened or preferably destroyed so its no longer a threat to American Hedgemony. So i think that a No Deal Brexit is their aim.
Not going well for Boris immediately called out as a reckless liar and that’s the first panelist on QT. 🙂
In 2014 Ken MacDonald’s newspaper review was axed. The BBC were about to replace him with Kezia Dugdale – a serving unionist Labour MSP! But there was such an outcry that they dropped the idea. Ken has been appearing intermittently of late. On his best behaviour.
Ricky Ross’s Another Country was moved from a prime Friday night spot to a Tuesday night ghetto. Pure malice.
I somehow knew that Stu Cosgrove and Eamonn O’Neill’s days were numbered. John Beattie is being moved to “drive time”, whatever that is.
Just switched QT off it is out of control and only two guests are dominating the debate. Once heard Blackford early on
Oh here he is again …only to be constantly interrupted by the chair three times . It’s chaos…FGS! First time in a while I’ve tuned in.
Calls of pathetic as Blackford finishes…
OTOH Eamonn O’Neill must have amassed hours of material for his media students. Future academuc papers on the role and function of a state broadcaster will be written in our independent state.
@Welsh Sion (10.32) –
Cheers aplenty for those links.
I have tweeted the first, hopefully it’ll be taken up by those who are, even now, preparing their responses to this disgraceful behaviour by BBC Scotland.
😉
The Waterboys were in epic form in Portree tonight. Mike Scott, surely one of our finest poets, captured the mood perfectly when he sung his classic ‘Old England is Dying’. Nothing needed said, but everyone seemed to know his lyrics completely nailed the times we’re in.
Old England is Dying
Man looks up on a yellow sky
And the rain turns to rust in his eye
Rumors of his health are lies
Old England is dying
His clothes are a dirty shade of blue
And his ancient shoes worn through
He steals from me and he lies to you
Old England is dying
Still he sings an empire song
Still he keeps his navy strong
And he sticks his flag where it ill belongs
Old England is dying
You’re asking what makes me sigh now
What it is makes me shudder so well
I just freeze in the wind and I’m
Numb from the pummelin’ of the snow
That falls from high in yellow skies
Down on where the well loved flag of England flies
Where homes are warm and mothers sigh
Where comedians laugh and babies cry
Where criminals are televised politicians fraternize
Journalists are dignified and everyone is civilized
And children stare with heroin eyes
Old England!
Evening has fallen
The swans are singing
The last of Sunday’s bells is ringing
The wind in the trees is sighing
And old England is dying
Gary45% at 9.15
The point is that they did win…or at least they thought they had.
They hadn’t bargained for disingenuous Remainiac tossers undermining the democratically expressed will of the people(on the grounds that they are too stupid to know what they were doing) or deranged Little-Englanders demanding total separation in one giant leap.
Does your commitment to Scotland’s independence have a list of “but only ifs” stapled to it ?
Mine’s neither and I expect the same goes for most of the Brexit voters.
Does anyone know what the future holds? … I would say no, which is why I would caution against siding with the doom-mongers, especially when the projected doom can only come about through future malevolence on the part of the wonderful Union they support.
I would never have in even my worst nightmares dreamed that the SNP could, never mind would, sacrifice the moral high ground to the Scottish[sic] Unionists…Too much to hope that nobody noticed…fingers crossed that they are sufficiently pissed of with Britishness that they don’t care.
I know this is O/T but I think this is sgnificant.
Have been sesarching for some photographic evidence of the “riot” on Govan Road on Friday. Can’t find any and I can’t find anybody else who has found any. Lots of photos of lots of police and even mounted police and flares by no sign whatosever of any rioters in any of them.
If the camereas were there to photograph the police I cannot imagine they would not have photographed the “riot”.
I don’t believe it.
Anybody on here know anybody on Govan Road? I lived there over 50 years ago and it would be hard to miss a riot.
Lenny Hartley says
“the main goal is the break up of the EU which is seen by the USA as a competitor which must be weakened or preferably destroyed so its no longer a threat to American Hedgemony.”
Yeah…I regret the demise of the Warsaw Pact for pretty much the same reasons … but I wouldn’t have advocated Scotland joining it.
@ Lenny Hartley, thanks for the link, I’ll have a read of it tomorrow.
Mutual interests I’d suggest, with the Brit Establishment and the mega rich/right of America, with a fast route and a slightly slower one to achieving it.
We live in precarious times. Fed up of them being interesting.
Fiona Bruce’s handling of QT is the most disgraceful self aggrandising publicity seeking twaddle ever seen, the man has no interest at all in what’s going on, it’s all about her creating more space so the audience will like him more, and the more rabidly stupid the audience becomes the more she likes it
Nice to see the Tories and the Brexit guy screaming with desperate rage though
This line the Tories Brexit lot keep coming out with constantly about betraying the will of the people and the other one I like is *insulting people’s intelligence*, well it’s not insulting people’s intelligence if you’re telling them the truth, it’s the Tory Brexit politicians who lied to the people in the first place who insulted their intelligence, they just don’t want to admit that as far as politics goes people are generally pretty stupid
People can’t be expected to understand politics it’s not their job that’s why they hope to trust the politicians to do it for them, y’know like you trust the doctor to fix you when you’re sick or the mechanic to fix your car, that’s their job
Although to be fair in the QT history of audiences there’s never much intelligence to insult
I have just gone over and above the call of duty to watch QT. Ian Blackford getting right intae them and putting Scotland front and centre of his arguments.
Emily Thornberry in a truly catastrophic performance got jn a right fankle over Labour’s policy on Brexit if they won an election.
Apparently, Labour would go to the EU to get a better deal, sign it, then put it to the people in a referendum with Remain on the ballot paper.
Thornberry, who significantly is Labour’s shadow foreign secretary, said she would campaign for Remain…against Labour’s own negotiated deal.
I kid you not. The place exploded with hoots if derision. Seems Labour is equally inept on baith sides o’ Tweed.
Horrendous horrendous Question Time.
A bunch of Britnat liars complaining about each other being liars. Didn’t get beyond this early argy bargy.
I hadn’t watched it for a long time but tuned in because Ian Blackford was on the panel. It’ll be a long time before I tune in again.
The Britnat liars have what was always a likely result – an ultra liar as PM. Johnson even lies about being a Britnat as he is really an English Nationist.
Oh and Fiona Bruce is absolutely useless. It’s all her her her. They should rename it the Fiona Bruce Show.
Dave Mc Ewan Hill
I just did a search ‘govan riots’ and clicked on images. There are several – as you say all shots of police and emergency vehicles but there are about 3 with really clear photos of ‘the rioters’ — who,of course, could be paid actors in disguise; off-duty policemen; a paid rabble or genuine rioters.
You choose.
Didnae see ony o they ‘white helmets’ fowk so maybe it’s genuine..
Why didn’t MSP Ruth Davidson turn up at the Scottish Parliament today to take her seat in support of the interim Tory leader Jackson Carwash
Dirty nappies? more time to spend with her Brass neck polishing? Pressures of Asda car parking? Molecular integrity of her cereal ruined by too much milk?
Of course not, BBC interviews and filming her documentary on herself
Bryan Taylor didn’t want to tell you that, it would’ve been a spoiler for the big reveal
Dr Jim @ 12-09 am
You raise a good point Dr Jim.
She hasn’t,after all,relinquished her MSP seat (so far as I know).
Oh my goodness
Robert Peffers!!???
In all yer 80+
year’s. I don’t fur one minute think ye wull
Leave us now
??
This is why you do why ye do??
Don’t leave us now!!
We all say that ye can’t be horrible tae any of
us…
But we do want ye tae be honest with all of us!!!
Do ye know that we all are on board with that guy ye met who told ye all aboot Scotland…..
Comoan Robert!!!
Don’t make us worry
And state yer case
Ye have never been shy the do so before.
I dare ye 🙂
Tweet from Stu Cosgrove re Fraser Nelson’s supercilious remarks about Irish ability to do sums. Fraser gets his head handed to him on a plate by Irish journalist Ed Brady.
link to twitter.com
Compare with Peter Oborne who at least goes to NI to see for himself and admits he was wrong about BREXIT.
link to twitter.com
QT:
Fiona Bruce: “stop talking over each other”
Continually interupts everyone when they try to talk.
@ Dave McEwan Hill at 11.29pm
Have a scroll through #govan and see if you can find anything.
I had a quick look and found this short clip. Is it just me or does it not appear that there are a lot of similar black jackets with quilted hoods…
link to twitter.com
Lizg@12.19am
Sorry but I never see him being horrible with people. Frank yes. Plenty of patience with some right diddies and Britnats as well.
He has said I posted balderdash and codswallop etc etc. So what. He may well have been correct. Compare that with some of the foul abusive stuff I have received from other posters. No I am not complaining.
Too many hypocrites on Wings ( and for sake of avoiding any misunderstanding I don’t mean you Lizg). People who complain about some mild comment and then resort to the foulest language and abuse.
Is Wings for adults or nursery children. The site owner could hardly be mistaken for a nursery child. LOL
@Dan & Dave McEwan Hill –
If Brigade 77 has an active wing (and who amongst them wouldn’t want to be ‘active’ after years of sitting on their arses trying to create arguments with the likes of us?!) then such a gig would be a natural outing for them.
I also noticed the black-jackets/raised hoods – properly ‘staunch’ neds haven’t the dosh to invest in the same gear let alone the awareness to cover their coupons.
@Dave McEwan Hill.
I live just off Govan Road. I was in my flat on the evening of the incident. I heard lots of noise and chanting but I was watching a movie and I’ve lived here for a few years and it’s a Friday night so it was only when i focused on the noise that i decided to head out and check the scene, plus i was chokin for a can of Irn Bru. I’m used to marches passing through here, and where my front room faces it’s hard to pin point the exact source of the noise at a given time.
You’ve seen the photos. A stretch of Govan Rd was blocked off and there was loads of police vehicles, around 20 odd, maybe more, at least 3 at the end of my street. I can’t say if the police had let the march pass through Govan Rd before they blocked it off. I didn’t see rival factions but to be fair it was dark and it was a decent stretch that was blocked off. I noticed the local grocer that i go to had shut up shop and had the shutters down, but i saw a couple of the pubs were still open. Lots of locals lining the streets and that part of Govan Rd was a bit of a mess. It was all a bit surreal to be honest. I didn’t know a march was planned.
I hung about for a bit, then went home with nae Irn Bru. There’s every chance the cops had dealt with the worst of it by the time I left the house. There was a large police presence. I don’t think there’s any need for conspiracy theories such as those suggested above.
Next morning i went outside to check the scene and it wasn’t too bad. Broken glass, some mess…I recall seeing an over turned bin the night before. But it wasn’t terrible. But like i say I missed the most intense part of whatever was going on. The media was here though. I passed some folk talking to some guy with a TV camera that wasn’t actually pointed at them, and i was approached by a guy from The Sun, but I had nowt to say to him.
Govan’s Govan. I like living here. Lots of guid people. Course it has its problems but that’s more cos Govan is offically classed as an area of social deprivation, there’s poverty here, but there’s also community. There’s a growing Polish and African community, the African shop expanded their premises recently and there’s Polish and another Eastern European grocers, to add to the more established Asian licensed grocers and newsagents.
Whatever happened last Friday was not created by the people of Govan, in my opinion, it was brought here. I can think of a few places in Glasgow that you can import some Loyalists and some Republicans and trouble’s gonna arise. There’s a Celtic pub and a Rangers pub barely 20 yards from each other. I’ve never seen folks from one pub fighting or hassling folks from the other.
On Sunday, not long after the old firm game there was some guys standing outside a boozer and there was two young guys, one in a Celtic Top and one in a Rangers Top and they were holding hands and dancing. That’s the Govan I love.
MJT at 1.18
Thanks. That sounds like the Govan I lived in for a couple of years.My family is from Govan and Ibrox a hundred years ago (and Argyll and Armagh and Dumfries).
You have underlined the suspicion I entertain that a fairly minor disturbance has been changed into a “riot” by the unionst media.
Did anyone see Andy Mciver on Scotland Tonight last night ?
? Andy Mciver (I think his name is ) was talking about the Tories ( as a Tory) morphing into an English National party which does fit with apparently Dominic Cummings saying something along the lines of to create you need to destroy, so out go all the old guard Soames,Clark etc and in come the new nationalists or right wing devotees or Boris Johnson sycophants
Just a couple of points really,
1. With all the Brexit madness over the last few days, is it just me or are the Scottish Tories getting a bit of a free ride regarding the mess they’re in from the media?
2. I assume the Tory MSPs voted today at Holyrood to match the W/minster Tory MPs so who is in charge and making the decisions ?Jackson Carlaw as the pretendy leader or who?
3.
If the Westminster Tory party is morphing into the English National party (not Unionist as A Mciver pointed out) where do the UnionistsTory voters go in Scotland then when they realise they’re not wanted/needed any more ?
4.
You get some good news from time to time. Trying to set up a syndicate for the National Lottery I find out that the National Lottery is HQ’d in Dublin…….
When I mentioned that to the chap at RBS he mentioned that Coutts Bank (a division of RBS) and the Queen’s bank has its administrive HQ in Dublin also.
I wonder if the OO knows that Lizzie’s money if looked after by the dirty fenian b’s.
Bob Mack says:
5 September, 2019 at 9:06 pm
Very interesting take on Boris by Robert Peston. He has heard that Boris has been urged by senior Tories NOT to sign the new Brexit law, and he is actually considering this.
He is potentially provoking Parliament to impeach him when he refuses.
This becomes madder by the minute.
Method in the madness Bob.
With a majority of 1, and a £1 billion bung to the DUP, what kind of madness is it to expel 20 members of your own party? It ought to set the alarm bells ringing. What’s he doing??
Johnson is playing us. He wants an election, but preparing for one means painting himself as “poor wee Boris”, treated with contempt by those nasty Europeans, and stabbed in the back by those hateful Remainers. We are seeing Populism in action. Boris wants an Election all right, but he wants the Brexiteers and English Nationalists worked into a frenzy first, so when he does get his election, he slithers home as the plucky British anti-hero, riding high on a wave of Hard right Nationalism and Brexit Party populism.
Johnson doesn’t fear an election because he’ll win it, and we’ll all be worse off under a Tory / Brexit Party coalition in Westminster, out Trumping Trump in the Agreements and Treaties they worm out of.
I see a General Election as a huge gamble for the forces of good. The Anti-Brexit lobby is a fragile alliance of those who don’t want Brexit, those who don’t want a No-Deal Brexit, and it has weak leadership from Corbyn, and Swinson who can’t abide Corbyn. I reckon Johnson and Farage will eat it for breakfast once they play the English Nationalist and EuroXenophobic cards which are meat and drink to the angry populists in England.
I firmly believe a General Election is a big trap for Scotland too, for the same reasons above. I’m also uncomfortable about Scotland’s roll in “saving” the UK from Brexit against the UK’s better judgement, but then promptly bringing down the Union for Independence. There’s an ugliness to that, and the populist government under Johnson and Farage will exploit it to the hilt. The BBC will be working on the script already.
I believe what happens BEFORE Brexit will be absolutely pivotal, and Scotland has to divorce itself from a failing anti-Brexit UK campaign, and focus exclusively upon Scottish Independence via Constitutional red lines and Court judgements. We MUST exploit Scottish Sovereignty in ways we haven’t even begun to try. Time is running out and yet I don’t see any aggression or even initiative coming from us.
I hate to say it, but nice guys finish last. A gold standard referendum is all well and good, but Independence will be a gritty, bare knuckle, no rules left unbroken, fist fight in a broken sewer, and I hope we are ready to be utterly ruthless and uncompromising. You can bet the BritNats will be.
The thing they mustn’t break is our Constitutional Sovereignty and our iron will to defend it, but given our form to date, I am deeply, deeply anxious on both counts.
If they picked our pockets in 2014, they’re gonna mug us proper once they have us outside Europe.
TOI ROBERT P
HI from Tassie:
I haven’t been on site very much over the last week or so and am dismayed at some of the comments I’ve just seen. First, I do hope your eyes are being/have been sorted out soon and that is the reason for your lack of postings. I would greatly miss your contributions to the site and as I have said before I follow them and in fact have put together a few emails from yourself and some other regulars on site as yours is one closest to my own views.
Keep well and hope you are back to posting soon. Independence gets closer with each day and hopefully we will all be able to celebrate soon. For those of us who have waited so long thee thought keeps us strong.
Ian Blackford, QT last night…“In our referendum in 2014 we were told if we stayed in the United Kingdom our rights as European citizens would be respected. That hasn’t happened.”
Correct Mr Blackford, but in 1707, we were told if we created the United Kingdom our rights as Sovereign citizens would be respected. That hasn’t happened either.
What say we contest the broken promise which we actually have in writing?
Please, BBC, dump that ingratiatingly awful host on QT.
I used to think Dimbledum was awful, but Fiona Bruce reaches new levels of the dry boak inducing spiel. She sees this as her very own political hour – awful, regardless of which political party you support!
Breeks says:
6 September, 2019 at 7:35 am
Ian Blackford, QT last night…“In our referendum in 2014 we were told if we stayed in the United Kingdom our rights as European citizens would be respected. That hasn’t happened.”
Correct Mr Blackford, but in 1707, we were told if we created the United Kingdom our rights as Sovereign citizens would be respected. That hasn’t happened either.
What say we contest the broken promise which we actually have in writing?
QT was back on last night Breeks? I usually watch it, for a laugh if nothing else. If I’d known it was on, especially with Ian Blackford on the panel, I’d have watched it.
Annie Wells at FMQ’s yesterday would have only the OO marching in Glasgow but Republicans are a no no although it was the protestors against them that caused the trouble, lit the fire at their barricade and tried to stop the march.
For me I would not want either groups to be marching but if the OO order is allowed to march and even stop people crossing the road while they are doing so then surely the Republicans can march – it is either both or neither.
Imagine though an msp’s not understanding this and in fact thinking the opposite. Annie Wells makes more sense when she says nothing. Her only thought was to try and make NS look bad but instead she showed how biased and bigoted she is and how little understanding she has of the situation and the law.
BoJo going to an Aberdeenshire farm to drum up support in a pre-election campaign.
A farm? Odd choice of location to convince many folk, or have they got coos and sheep on the electoral roll up there…
What a bloody shambles the “Fiona Bruce” show was last night,get rid of her she is the chairperson not there to ask her smart alex questions,rubbish program now.
PS Can someone tell me why Ruth Davidson missed the Brexit vote in Parliament.
@Scott –
Last night’s QT was the worst hour or so of radio I’ve ever heard. Okay, I’m biased, can’t be doing with the whole format. Everything about it grates.
But trying to be objective, purely on the basis of what it felt like to try and make sense of what was going on and who was speaking – let alone what they were meant to be discussing – it was just atrocious.
BBC website quotes Johnson “I find it hard to comprehend why anyone would wish to break apart a successful country, tear the cross of St Andrew out of the Union Flag and draw an international frontier across our island”.
WE have plenty of answers but naturally the BBC does not open HYS when it might harm the Union.
Question Time is there to give a false impression the BBC isn’t biased at that
They are the lying, distorting mouth piece of Westminster.
They rig the audience never balance the for’s and against with weight
Always on the Westminster side.
Bruce has become full of her own self importance and will happily obey
Her master’s instructions and interrupt anyone against Westminster policy.
People like her and Claudhelper Winkleman on half a million per annum
While the over 75’s are expected to cough up for talentless wannabe’s.
Westminster, the BBC and QT are all one and the same corrupt farce
That Scotland must separate itself from for ever!
Just updated Nana’s links here:
link to indyref2.space
Re QT
It was the blonde haired of (non celt/pict/anglo Saxon origin brexiteer that made me wince .What country she was from I do not know? Maybe one of Boris’s ex or current mistress’s ????
Why folk like that support Brexit is beyond my comprehension .
BREAKING: High Court rejects attempt to rule that PM Boris Johnson acted unlawfully by proroguing Parliament for five weeks as the Brexit deadline looms. So Prime Minister wins.
However, the Lord Chief Justice, Lord Burnett, has also ruled that the case can be immediately taken to the Supreme Court on appeal because of the important point of law at stake.
link to twitter.com
Because she’s not an MP? Just a guess.
The Brexit fiasco comes down to a numbers game. There are three factions of MPs in similar sized groups – just leave, leave with a Withdrawal Agreement, just remain. These are positions without compromise.
Any two groups can out voted any other; they already have umpteen times. Successful WM votes have therefore been for what the majorities don’t want.
There is no majority nor concensus for any solution. There is talk of a government of national unity, but what could it unite around? The problem of thirds doesn’t go away.
Unfortunately, one group are winning because just leaving with no WA is the default.
Another forced solution comes about because of WM’s awful FPTP system. Barely more than a third can gain a majority of MPs. A GE might give one of the three factions a majority. And the most likely would be ‘just leave’ Tories.
The lesson in this for Scotland should be that we need to just get away from it all!
Ignore my last. I read ‘parliament’ and brainfarted ‘Westminster’
Liam
I should have made it clear that it was the Scottish Parliament where it was reported that Ruth Davidson was not there for the vote on stopping a no deal Brexit.
Off Topic
A wee project requires your assistance. Please have a read of following link.
Thanks.
link to wingsoverscotland.com
Ruth Davidson missing the vote:
Could it indicate that she has a ‘nice little position’ lined up, so doesn’t want to upset the ‘British Nationalists’.
QT getting worse? probably not! it’s just that we are all much more aware of BBC BS when we see or hear it, so Fiona Bruce seems to be worse than everything that went before when she is probably just doing what they have always done; keep to the script and respond to the promptings being shouted in her ear if a guest begins saying something that challenges the ‘establishment’.
Tory’s taking back control? You have got to be having a laugh!
They’ve lost control of Westminster and their own party with resignations and sackings galore. A complete mess!
What a farce. Boris demanding to go to election that he has flatly refused since coming to power. Labour refusing to go to election they have been demanding for 3 years.
Twilight zone stuff.
If ,in the end it destroys Boris political career fair enough, but as Breeks said,it will make him stronger in the long run.
“Boris demanding to go to election that he has flatly refused since coming to power.”
To be fair, he’s been in power (with Parliament sitting) for FIVE DAYS.
dan @ 10.39
scotland
not dependent since 1707
What a marvellous bunch of Tories the Scottish Tories are, they’ve managed to make their bosses give back the £160 million they originally stole from Scottish farmers and found another £50 million for Boris Johnson to bribe them to vote Tory on his wee Scottish keep the Union together jaunt
While he’s here in upper Jockland he went to Peterhead to inform the fishermen there that he’s had a word with the president of France and thurre’s nae problem attaw gittin aw the fish tae France withoot oany bother, so they’re aw satisfied wae thaat ken
While he was standing in a field in Aberdeen looking at cows Mr Johnson educated us Scottish Jocks that our country wants Brexit because that’s what we voted for as British people
He must’ve had to think about that for a minute because as we know we’re only Scottish when it comes to dancing on shortbread tins and making that wailing noise when we blow into tubes stuck in sheeps innards
The media didn’t show us whether Mr Johnson left the Scottish cow field by the back door like he did on his visit to Scotland’s FM Bute house before he set off to visit the Queen where he thought he might need a change of clothes, perhaps a change of underwear and a bulletproof vest might be more apt for his visit to Queenie this time
Boris dropping ‘country’ in favour of UK on his interview in the wilds of Scotland. Getting it right…’sometimes’ 🙂
He promises Super fast High Speed Internet in Scotland but I see from Nana’s links the gave 80%+ of the allocation to NI. 🙂
Might we be on the cusp of a mammoth change in British politics – the end of big, “broad church” parties, and the rise of niche parties?
The SNP and Plaid, essentially “single-issue parties”, that issue being independence, have already greatly curbed the power of the established parties in Scotland and Wales. We now find the Tories having to try to crush the single-issue Brexit Party.
There are serious rifts in Labour’s broad church – the next GE might well be the last in which we see the established parties standing in the manner we are used to.
Hopefully, Scotland will be well out of things by the time this happens, but, we could well see the refurbished Houses of Parliament having to remodel the Chamber, perhaps into a pattern resembling the Holyrood Chamber.
Why have a confrontational house set-up, two swords’-length apart? This has worked for centuries: Whigs v Tories; Tories v Liberals; Tories v Labour. Times have changed, perhaps, so too must the Chamber.
But, I repeat, let’s hope we are well out of it before then.
I see the ‘rebel’ parties are not to allow Boris to win any vote of no confidence in himself until after October.
That’s what friends are for innit? 🙂
Boris talking to the ‘sheep’ in the highlands.
Saw him on ewe tube there and all the sheep said “SNP Baaad”
PS:
Folk not liking his use of the police cadets as a backdrop to a political speech, not a good look. 🙁
“Being part of a large political union is absolutely normal” tweets Labour sage Duncan Hothersall.
That’s what the Baltic States were told when the Swedes incorporated them in their empire.
That’s what the Baltic States were told by the Tsars when they had to become part of the Russian empire.
That’s what the Baltic States were told by Hitler when they were invaded.
That’s what the Baltic States were told by Stalin when they were ‘liberated’.
Live blog and tweets from the Cherry case
link to ukscblog.com
@ call me dave – MPs have been promising super-fast broadband to Scotland for over 20 years. It’s a great tactic isn’t it – as long as you never deliver the promise, you can keep on dangling that carrot indefinitely till your victims get fed up and make their own arrangements.
Home Rule served the same purpose for Labour and the Lib Dems.
The internet has spoilt that tactic for those even on dial-up access.
But fast broadband brings its own problems. Here’s a thread about the dark manoeuvres of Cambridge Analytica, SLC and other shady outfits to manipulate voter behaviour. There are links to many documents so if anyone wants to sift through this lot – good luck.
I’m still waiting for someone to whistleblow on how Indyref1 was manipulated – apart from the obvious MSM bias, lying politicians and mendacious CEOs.
link to twitter.com
Dr Jim@11.55am
I also saw the headline saying Johnson has arrived in Scotland to give Scottish farmers £160m. Just as you I thought the same amount the EU gave for Scottish farmers but the UK stole and gave to English farmers. They could’nt even be bothered to try and disguise it by making it, say, £170m or £150m.
Par for the course for the UK. Stealing Scotlands money then giving some of it back and telling Scotland we should be thankful for their generosity. Are farmers that stupid they fall for this.
UK robbers and liars. No better than the Mafia.
For those fed up with so much war stuff on the telly.
link to twitter.com
Right-wing journalist inserts Mugabe in to the Brexit Saga.
link to twitter.com
Do the MSM try and manipulate public opinion? We know the answer but nothing could be clearer than the differences in the Front Pages and headlines from yesterday of The Sun in Scotland and the Sun in the rest of the UK
The UK edition features Corbyn’s head superimposed on a chicken.
“Is THIS the most dangerous chicken in Britain?”
The Scottish Sun has Johnson eyes cast towards the ground.
“Floppy Johnson can’t get an election”
link to newstatesman.com
Socratese
Snp essentially single issue party.
Nonesense.
Johnson has finally revealed his true socialist self.
Honestly!!
link to twitter.com
The great untapped force is English/British nationalism. We have as yet had only glimpses of it. Allied to the concept of ‘anglosphere’ it might prove rather formidable if the intellectual drivers were fully deployed to promote the construct. So far there appears little indication of that but post Brexit there may well be.
We might take comfort from the fact that English and intellectual sit awkwardly together but not too much. Scottish Unionists of the old school have no such problem, Gove, Fox, Niall Ferguson are known players with post-imperial, anglospheric notions.
What would England do without Scots (or Jews) to do its edgy thinking.
A great pity, edgy, out of the box, unconventional thinking is not more manifest in contemporary Scottish nationalist circles.
Wake me up when the times becoming ‘interesting’.
Regarding the prorogation case.
Can anyone explain to me why the QC representing the Government tells the Bench that Parliament can reset the prorogation and control it?
As far as I am aware this decision can only be taken by the Cabinet these days and not the Privy Council. The Cabinet only advises the Queen to prorogued Parliament.
If parliament is in control as the Government QC claims why has this not been done as an emergency debate?
Something isn’t right.
I’m sure Joanna Cherry would be right on it.
Further to Boris Johnson earlier this morning saying he had spoken to the French President that everything would be fine and dandy with him, President Macron has replied to Mr Johnson by saying *See yer UK, see yer Brexit, see yer Arse* in nicer words the president of France said “Let the UK have their no deal Brexit and maybe once they’ve had a taste of what they’ve done to themselves we can talk I’m fed up with the whole thing and I do not support further extensions I’ve other things to do”
BoJo bribing Scottish farmers with the money the Tories stole from them 6 years ago!
A fig leaf gesture in the vain hope of propping up the collapsed BritNat vote in Scotland in time for a GE.
The laugh is some of them will believe his bullshit.
Don’t want yesterday’s link floating off into the ether.
Craig Murray:
“Petition for Official International Observers for Next Scottish Independence Referendum”.
link to tinyurl.com
Petition for Official International Observers for Next Scottish Independence Referendum
If you sign the petition: Remember to confirm via the email or your signing of the petition won’t count.
The Mogg is a lounger
What else is he?
Begins with a C
Saw an unmarked white transit type van in MickeyD’s carpark at Broxden services in Perth yesterday. A couple of guys in what appeared to be squaddies uniform in the driver and co driver seat and several (at least 3) guys in civilian clothing in the back,
Probably nothing but my paranoia kicked in knowing there is a march there tomorrow.
Boris plenty of ditches in my area because of roadworks read a report on the night Boris called a no confidence vote in his own government .
Jeremy spotted Cummings in the Commons .Corbyns staff got him away