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Another accidental truth

Posted on April 28, 2017 by

Following on from Ian Murray’s last night, we received another election leaflet from an alert reader today, this time one delivered to them by the Scottish Conservatives.

Let’s just look at that highlighted section again.

Now, “the SNP should try to improve schools and grow the economy, and we’ll oppose them every step of the way” initially sounds like a comedy misprint. Except the thing is, it’s what the Tories actually do.

Roughly 99 times out of every 100 the Scottish Government brings forward a policy proposal intending to improve the lives of Scottish people, the Scottish Conservatives (and the other Unionist parties, and often the Greens) vote against it.

They voted against the budget, as they’ve done for years. They voted against creating a single Scotland-wide board for all enterprise and skills agencies. They voted against reforming the council tax to take more money from wealthier homeowners to raise money for schools. They voted against anti-sectarianism laws, perhaps for reasons rather close to home. And so on.

It is, of course, perfectly right and proper for oppositions to oppose the government. But every time that the SNP actually tries to “get on with the day job”, as the Unionist parties constantly demand, the Unionist parties all then immediately try to STOP them getting on with the day job by every means at their disposal.

(Ironically, this means that in effect the matter of whether bills get passed or not is placed largely in the hands of the Greens, who are pro-indy and pretty much the exact ideological opposite of the Tories in every respect. Strange bedfellows.)

It’s one of the oddest paradoxes in politics, and it’s more or less unique to Scotland. The party that’s won three crushing landslide election victories in a row in pursuit of independence is ordered by vastly less successful and less popular parties to give up on independence and instead get on with enacting other policies that those same parties don’t want enacted either and will do everything in their power to block.

The Tories and Labour and Lib Dems, of course, want Tory and Labour and Lib Dem policies enacted instead. But since they were all hopelessly thrashed out of sight in all of those elections, they have no conceivable right to have that happen, or to expect it. That’s how democracy works. Want your policies put into practice? Win elections.

The Scottish Parliament was expressly designed to avoid majorities, which is a good idea when the political sphere isn’t completely and implacably polarised on a single issue overriding all others. Constantly trying to prevent that issue from being resolved can only lead to a perpetual stalemate in which nothing can ever get done.

Whether the Unionists like it or not, it will take a second referendum to genuinely put the constitutional issue to bed for a long time. The pro-independence parties have an unarguably legitimate case over Brexit. If they were to lose a second vote even under those circumstances, it’s all but impossible to imagine anything justifying another attempt in the forseeable future. Standing on such a manifesto would surely exhaust the patience of the electorate.

Nicola Sturgeon would very likely resign, with no obvious successor in place. No new SNP leader would dare risk a catastrophic third defeat unless the polls were utterly overwhelmingly in their favour, and heaven only knows what scenario could possibly bring that about if Brexit didn’t do it. Normal politics would resume, with a chastened and damaged SNP and a genuine prospect of someone else forming the government.

Yet faced with their only plausible chance of power the Unionist parties are in absolute panic. Casting aside even the pretence of having any other policies, they scream “NO SECOND REFERENDUM!” until they’re hoarse, frantically hoping that if they bellow it loudly and long enough the problem will go away and they can get on with the easy job of kneejerk opposition to everything.

Scotland is trapped in a permanent chokehold because the Conservatives (chiefly) are paralysed by fear – fear of defeat, fear of the voters AND fear of victory, which might bring responsibility. As their newest leaflet admits, all they know how to do is say No. It’s time they grew up, and let Scotland do the same.

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    1. 28 04 17 14:56

      Another accidental truth | speymouth

    133 to “Another accidental truth”

    1. Thepnr says:

      Consensual politics, whatever happened to that mad idea again?

    2. Richardinho says:

      There’s no doubt in my mind that had Brexit not occurred then a second Indy ref would be several years if not decades away. Of course if the Tories win by a landslide and continue to deny such a referendum, then take Scotland out of the EU, when it’s too late to do anything about it, then they will just say ‘haha – you should have voted for independence if you don’t like it’.

      This is what is so egregious about the ‘not the time’ notion: More than ever it’s the time before it’s too late.

    3. Scotrock says:

      Sorry for stating the obvious.
      Losing up to 12 of our MPs will only strengthen the unionist cause(in their eyes)
      What people are thinking off by not voting SNP is beyond me

    4. ScottishPsyche says:

      What must it be like to be a unionist? To be constantly prisoners of their fear and resistance to change. What tiny, myopic and miserable lives they live, forever anxious that they could not cope with responsibility. Better to clip the wings of those who dare to think life could be better.

    5. Effijy says:

      English Tories ruling the Uk.
      They are the Party of the English Rich,
      For the English Rich, by the English Rich!

      I haven’t heard this for a while but as they
      Still claim that Scotland couldn’t support itself
      Why not open the treasury books, let Scotland
      Keep all of the money that it generates, and see
      How the 2 countries have progressed after a five
      Year period.

      I know Scotland would be so better off and England
      Would be even deeper in debt!

    6. Ian McCubbin says:

      In other countries consensual politics works and maybe it will in an independent Scotland. But at present in a divisive Tory led UK we have no chance of that. Get out Scotland now by UDI while you can because each election will corrupt back on 56 MPs and 40 + MSPs till we are told no mandate for Indy.
      The too wee too poor argument will infect those less informed.

    7. Bradford Millar says:

      say in the unlikely chance they do win 12 seats the SNP will still have a irrefutable mandate to hold another referendum on Independence

    8. Walter Scott says:

      So like the republicans in the house & senate in the US under Obama. Block everything then cry foul when opposition does the same. Unfortunately for Sturgeon , she can’t just sign executive orders. Would be great if she could. Kim Jong Ruth’s heid would explode

    9. Macart says:

      A serious question which needs answering really. No establishment political party has, as far as we can determine, any major raft of policies, fully costed and scrutinized to pursue.

      Quite literally, just who would run the country and on what ticket? There’s not a one of them have any alternative policies which make them fit for government. Were it not for their single unified policy of opposition for oppositions sake, you’d have to ask yourself what is the point of them?

      In fact it’s worth asking that particular question anyway. There is no point to them in reality so far as the public are concerned. The only service they perform is for the interests of the state, not the people.

      Who knew?

    10. Joemcg says:

      Why do I get perpetual images in my head of any of the three stooges on some torture table ala James Bond with a baddie possessing an unimaginable painful device and them shouting “Never! No surrender to a second referendum!!” Arrrgghhh!!

    11. geeo says:

      People in the media serm to forget that the Tories had double figure seat returns during the Thatcher years, granted there were 72 seats in Scotland back then.

      Winning Zero or only one is a relatively recent thing (last 20 years or so).

      50 seats would be a STUNNING result for the SNP.

      If Ruth Davidson wants to shout “Support for Independence down because we got under 10 MP’s elected”, let her.

      She is going to look pretty stupid when Nicola Sturgeon simply states that, if Ruth Davidson wants to use the GE result as an indicator of support for a referendum, then 50 SNP seats is a multiple times bigger mandate FOR a referendum than a few Tory seats against one.

    12. Jack Murphy says:

      DAVIDSON AND THE TORIES AGAIN! TODAY. Ruth Davidson caught breaking parliamentary rules to promote the Tory party.

      “Ruth Davidson is to be probed by Holyrood bosses after she was caught campaigning on the Scottish Parliamentary estate in breach of strict rules.

      One of the Scots Tory leader’s constituents has written to Sir Paul Grice, Chief Executive of the Scottish Parliament, to say a campaign video created for Heart Scotland radio station has clearly been filmed in Holyrood.

      The SNP said Davidson’s blatant breach of parliamentary rules showed “just how arrogant she is”. ”

      The TV News tonight anyone? Place your bets. 🙁

      http://tinyurl.com/lrehb4y

    13. Dr Jim says:

      Isn’t it funny how someone like say Annabelle Goldie now promoted to Baroness in the House of Lords after having won nothing in Scotland ever has more say over how Scotland is governed than those representatives we now elect

      I bet there’s not a normal country in the entire world who’d put up with that let alone understand us putting up with it

      Folk must think Scottish people are either thick as Shite or we live in a Dictatorship

      Whip me some more please it’ll make me a Unionist “Defo”

    14. Hamish100 says:

      Davidson and the Tories should be formally investigated over their indyref 2 leafleting for local council elections as well as Westminster.mshe is not standing for election for either.

      Using the Scots Parliament without permission– point of order at next week’s FMQ’s.?

      OT good news for Prestwick Considering Marshall a Tory candidate in Largs wanted it too be closed when he spoke on radio a year or two ago.

    15. sensibledave says:

      Rev

      Because of all of your articles, I know you are a thoughtful and intelligent man. I man therefore left a little stunned by your passage:

      “Yet faced with their only plausible chance of power the Unionist parties are in absolute panic. Casting aside even the pretence of having any other policies, they scream “NO SECOND REFERENDUM!” until they’re hoarse, frantically hoping that if they bellow it loudly and long enough the problem will go away and they can get on with the easy job of kneejerk opposition to everything”

      Surely you understand that “NO SECOND REFERENDUM” is exactly what this GE is going to be about in Scotland! That’s the campaign. That is the game this time round.

      The SNP are the rallying point for Scottish Independence – and increased support would lead to indyref2.

      By the same token, the opposite is the same. Your opposition are now painting you as the single issue party at a time when, they believe, that single issueness (sic), will work to The SNP’s detriment. There are bigger fish to fry.

      They smell blood. Not that they will end up sending more MPs to Westminster than the SNP – just that the SNP will have peaked, the SNP fox, may not be shot dead, but it will be limping.

      Realistically, if SNP support falls at the GE then Ms Sturgeon will incur gales, bucket loads, incessant howling, etc – that there is no support amongst the Scottish people for indyref2. Faced with the onslaught and/or the fear of holding indyref2, it will be dropped. Ms Sturgeon will come up with some justification for dropping it but it will be dropped. She cannot go ahead with indyref2 knowing she will lose it.

      I take no pleasure from what we can guess will then happen. The next chapter involves Ms Sturgeon’s political career coming to an end where, as the First Minister, she takes Scotland out of the EU, without a referendum, whilst remaining part of the UK. She could not survive that.

    16. galamcennalath says:

      Great piece, Rev.

      Clearest and most accurate overview of Scottish politics in 2017.

      So, why are the Unionists behaving like this? Simple answer, they expect a Yes win in ScotRef.

    17. arthur thomson says:

      The Tories are presenting a target bigger than the side of a mountain. The local government and general elections are a considerable challenge to the SNP and Greens but now is the time and the hour.

      Attack is the only defence we have and that is what has to happen now. How? The Tories have apparently sent their evil piece of literature to all Scottish households. The SNP must put together and distribute a very pointed series of communications to the electorate making clear what they will lose if they don’t stand and be counted against the Tories. It is not acceptable to take comfort in the the notion of ‘just’ losing a small number of seats to a party which is so patently obviously poisonous.

      There can be no excuses. There has to be a wealth of talent available to the SNP to rapidly put together a series of communications that may be their most important communications ever. Nothing but the best will do. It has to hit the mark. Harsh words will need to be used.

      Of course, the media will attack the SNP in these circumstances but they will attack anyway. I and others have rightly accused Corbyn of failing to score open goals. In my opinion, the SNP and the Greens will be no less open to criticism if they fail to expose the true toxicity of the Tories to the electorate.

      If the electorate are bluntly informed then responsibility ultimately lies with them. They are not children and will have to live with the consequences of their actions on themselves and their communities.

      There must be no room for people to use the excuse ‘we didn’t know’.

    18. Big Jock says:

      Anyone else now thinking this GE is the biggest stitch up since indi ref 2014. Are any of these opinion polls actually credible!

      We now have one showing the SNP on 41% and the Tories on 28%. That’s a 9% drop in SNP support since 2015. Given what’s going on in Scotland , I am scratching my head!

    19. sensibledave says:

      Effijy 3:18 pm

      You wrote: “They are the Party of the English Rich,
      For the English Rich, by the English Rich!”

      Know your enemy Effijy! Whilst you maintain that belief, despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary that is staring you in the face, you will never make any progress because you do not know your political opponents.

      55% of English voters voted right of centre at the last election.

      Evidentially, the Tories did not get into power because the “rich” voted for them.

    20. Ruglonian says:

      Thepnr has made the point concisely – this situation is not sustainable.

      Beyond posturing, Holyrood is not working.

      If the state of the UK (Brexit, perpetual tory governments etc) is not enough to make the majority of Scots see the potential of Independence, then what the hell will?

      I’m at the stage where I feel if there’s another vote to continue the Union then the game’s a bogey. I don’t want an expensive layer of local bureaucracy that gives a false impression of Scotland’s status, it’d be more honest to revert to ‘direct rule’ from WM then we can all just shut up and eat our cereal 🙁

    21. galamcennalath says:

      The cards were dealt in the 2016 with the Holyrood election and in the overwhelming win of Remain.

      If ScotRef is necessary, it will occur regardless of what happens in the council and general elections.

      It will become necessary if Scotland does not stay in the single market. That is outwith our control and in the hands of May et al. However, not many people can believe May will deliver on this, so ScotRef is all but inevitable.

      It will happen at a time which allows a smooth transition to independence and prior to Brexit having much impact.

      Crystal clear, no ambiguity. So what are the Tories on about!?

      As The Rev says, they should win an election first, then they get to exercise power. Win does not mean do a wee bit better, it means win!

    22. Arbroath1320 says:

      Think I’ll just leave this here from today’s Herald newspaper.

      THE Scottish Conservatives have been accused of importing the “dodgy” election tactics that led to criminal investigations into some of their MPs south of the border.
      The party is under fire for distributing thousands of anti-independence leaflets in the local elections urging people to “send Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP a message they can’t ignore”.
      However, despite being intended to influence how people vote on May 4, the cost does not count towards local spending limits as the material does not name any candidates.

      http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/15252068.Tories_accused_of__quot_dodgy_quot__election_spending_after_flood_of_leaflets/

      Tory Election Fraud Mk II anyone? 😀

    23. Dan Huil says:

      @galamcennalath 5:00pm

      Exactly right.

    24. Scotrock says:

      Ruglonian
      “if there is another vote to continue then the games a bogey”
      Please always remember that most voters listen to BBC / STV read the Mail / lScotsman and that ilk. They are not honestly informed. They listen to the to wee, too poor, subsidy junkies myth.
      Its not that they do not want independence they are part of project fear resonance.
      They are, of course, the No surrender brigade and the I’m alright so fk you types. i have long since stopped tried to reason with bigots.
      Keep persevering with those that will listen. We will get there.
      Hail Caesar!

    25. Terence callachan says:

      Nobody likes to say it but one of the main reasons Scottish Independence struggles is simply because 17% of the people living in Scotland are English people.Yes I know there is a group called English for Scottish independence but they are a much much smaller group than the English people who are mostly living here temporarily to work and get to vote in the Scottish independence referendum and vote against Scottish independence.
      The English for Scottish independence group recently put the figure of English people living in Scotlands at about nine hundred thousand, Scotlands population as a whole is about five million three hundred thousand.
      Saying this will attract the usual comments from people saying I hate England or I hate English people but it’s just not true, I lived in England for many many years most of my education was in England I think England is a great country but facts are facts.
      Northern Ireland has a similar problem created by Westminster sending poor people there to work who were protestants in their belief and now those protestants support and vote for Westminster government.
      I don’t know what the solution is but I do find it strange that this is never discussed openly.
      I can honestly say that when I lived in England I would never have wanted to vote in a referendum on English independence why would I? I’m Scottish ,it would be a question for English people but it amazes me how many English people in Scotland openly state that it is their right to have a vote on Scottish independence often because they also think all people in U.K. Should have a vote on Scottish independence !
      The question is, should people from the country you want independence from have a vote when we know there are so many of them ? keep in mind that the EU citizens living in U.K. were not allowed to vote in the Brexit referendum , i reckon that is because there are so many and if you look at how close the vote was for Brexit they may have swung it in remains favour, the same thing would probably happen in Scotland.

    26. Liam says:

      Effijy says:
      28 April, 2017 at 3:18 pm

      English Tories ruling the Uk.
      They are the Party of the English Rich,
      For the English Rich, by the English Rich!

      I read that as ‘English Reich!’ – and then realised I wasn’t that far wrong

    27. Ghillie says:

      They really can’t help themselves.

      So arrogant their propoganda doesn’t need proofreading or even to be vaguely truthful. Aye well, pride comes before a fall.

      OT/ I see Ian Murray,in a cutesy kinda way, has come clean about his heroic fail election letter.

      But I understood he had publicly explored the idea of running as an independent candidate.

      Isn’t that kind of disloyalty to the party a sackable offence in their eyes? Are Labour aware of the poll asking about Ian Murray running as an independent candidate rather than Labour? Did he commission it?

    28. heedtracker says:

      The rather horrific fact of UKOK life, is Scots are governed by tory England, no matter how often we don’t vote tory. So endlessly blocking indyref 2 makes a lot of sense and keeps a lot of the most ardent tory campaigners in great jobs at Pacific Quay for example.

      Lose a tory, win a tory, makes no odds, we’re all tories now. It really is great being a tory in the Scotland region of this tory union, the most psychotic tory status quo, since Donald Trump somehow got elected, just as hard core Cons disastrous.

      Sensibeledave what are U waffling away UKOK wise today you tory roaster?

      SNP have the required indy ref2 mandate now, it went through Holyrood, not long ago. And the tory BBC Scotland vote NO vote tory campaign machine, will never stop misinforming and lying at Scots, frightening us, making us really scared of any big changes, let alone even considering not voting tory, until Scotland’s independence day sensible. Then they’ll be gone for good.

      Its how tory England reigns over Scotland sensibledave, you mad tory roaster, 600 miles away, in the tory heartlands of south east of England, where mad shire tories are worshipped as gods, we hear.

    29. Ian says:

      A list of 20 traits to judge politicians by. I can see labour and the tories scoring well on this one.

      http://www.minddisorders.com/Flu-Inv/Hare-Psychopathy-Checklist.html

      PS – psychopath as in uncaring shit, not the Norman Bates type.

    30. Juan P says:

      @Terence Callachan

      I’ve always believed that the people of England are best placed to govern their own affairs. If I lived there and there was a vote then I would vote for independence for England.

      It’s strange though that this view is only reciprocated by a minority of people from the rUK living here.

      I think fundamentally it comes down to the fact that I do not believe Scotland owns the other parts of the UK and the Welsh, Northern Irish and English should be able to decide things for themselves.

      Sadly there are a significant number of English people who have formed the view that they are superior to Scots, Irish and Welsh. It’s for this reason that they can’t comprehend why we would want to be independent.

      The comedian David Mitchell, a reasonably liberal minded individual by all accounts, once remarked on question time that he was sad the rep of Ireland wasn’t still part of Blighty. He wasn’t joking and there was no trace of his understanding how remarkably ignorant that comment was.

      That’s what we’re up against. Even the good guys think rule by England is just naturally best for the natives. It’s a deeply entrenched imperialist view which is only eroding at a glacial pace.

    31. Legerwood says:

      According to a report in the Herald today Labour is going to target the major part of its resources in just three seats that they think are winnable. They are:
      Edinburgh South
      East Renfrewshire
      East Lothian

      All seem to have majorities below 10,000. So the rest of the Labour candidates are on their own, more or less.

      Apologies if this has already been mentioned

    32. heedtracker says:

      The comedian David Mitchell, a reasonably liberal minded individual by all accounts, once remarked on question time that he was sad the rep of Ireland wasn’t still part of Blighty. He wasn’t joking and there was no trace of his understanding how remarkably ignorant that comment was.”

      Juan P, That’s not an uncommon thing among upper class England though. A lot of them want the whole of the British isles, Ireland included, back as one country ruled from London.

      It makes sense in some ways as it is sometimes quite hard to see why say Dublin, is not that much different from London or Edinburgh.

      Look at how much of an anti Scottish nation state camper Sir Bob Geldof is and a lot of rich English own a lot of Ireland too, not as much as they own Scotland ofcourse but still, that wistful longing to get their Ireland back in the UK fold is strong in our elite masters.

    33. joannie says:

      David Mitchell and his elite friends can go hang. There’s no way Ireland would ever join a NATO member with nuclear weapons. If they want Ireland back they’ll have to leave NATO, dump Trident, become a neutral country and move the main parliament to Dublin.

      Otherwise no.

    34. Gerry says:

      12 minutes after the hour until the first vaguely political story is spoken of.
      Figures.

    35. Doug McGregor says:

      Unionists don’t want to create an opposition , they want to create failure. If the SNP fail then Scotland fails , great , let’s get back in our box.

    36. heedtracker says:

      Otherwise no.

      George Osborne’s family owns half of Ireland. It could be why he bailed out the Bank of Ireland, out of the blue, although he said he did for trade n shit.

      This is real power, toryboy style. If you have a massive stake in Ireland and massive power as UK chancellor, you are going to use it, is not how tory beeb propaganda gimps spin it all.

      Usual blurry mess from beeb gimps really,

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-11807769

      Is it £7+bn to a failed foreign bank, did sucker taxpayers here ever get it back? who knows.

      “Pressed on whether he would rule out offering any other eurozone countries bail-outs in future, he said it was not wise to speculate about other countries’ finances but added: “I think there are very specific connections between the UK and Ireland which we don’t have with other countries and that’s why I think it’s completely appropriate we make a bilateral loan in this case.”

    37. stewartb says:

      o/t

      BBC 1 News at 6pm has just about given UKIP a party political broadcast pretending to be a news item! More time given over to Nuttall and UKIP supporters than just about all the main parties put together – and of course no mention at all of the Greens. What is it about the BBC and UKIP? How does the BBC get away with it?

    38. sassenach says:

      I was born in England, but came to live and work in Scotland over 50 years ago.

      I love Scotland and the Scots people but, for the life of me, I just cannot get my head round the large section of this country that will not see what Westminster is doing to them, every day – and what utter contempt these English MPs have for Scots.

      What the hell will it take to make these idiot Scots see what’s happening? Can they not see the daily propaganda on BBC? What kind of jackasses are they?

      Scotland the Brave??? Don’t make me laugh!! To me over half seem to be cowards, I’m afraid.

    39. velofello says:

      My view is that anyone who supports, and votes for the Tory party in Scotland is endorsing the introduction of a caste system.

      The Two Child Benefit Scheme, and the Rape Clause essentially destine the low earners or unemployed of the Scottish nation to two children- limit families. The wealthier families will not have that constraint placed upon them.

      You can discuss the policy in religious terms, in humanity terms, even in esoteric terms, but surely it is just evil?

      Ruth Davidson forwarded a defence of the policy in the debate in Holyrood as a step towards “reducing the deficit”. The deficit! Trident? The House of Lords? MPs expenses misdemeanours? She is of the sad gene pool who know the cost of everything, and the value of nothing.

      Any person of moderate wealth to low wealth who supports the Tories here in Scotland is acting so so foolishly.You are allowing your feeling of comfortable wealth superiority to blind you to the reality that ultimately awaits you too.

    40. joannie says:

      @ headtracker – Osborne’s family do not own half of Ireland. They own a meaningless title, the Baronet of Ballintaylor and Ballylemon, and nothing else here. Their fortune comes from their wallpaper and fabric company in London, not from Ireland.

      The bilateral loan you’re referring to was loaned because British banks would have been very exposed to any collapse in the Irish banking system and because Ireland is the UK’s fifth biggest export market. All the scheduled repayments plus the agreed interest have to date been paid back as agreed.

    41. Thepnr says:

      @Terence callachan

      Your assertion that 17% of people living in Scotland are English is simply wrong. According to the 2011 census 9% are English.

      Don’t post rubbish without checking your facts first.

      Ninety-three per cent of the people in Scotland stated they were born within the UK, a decrease of three percentage points since 2001. Eighty-three per cent of the population were born in Scotland, nine per cent in England, 0.7 per cent in Northern Ireland and 0.3 per cent in Wales.

      http://www.scotlandscensus.gov.uk/news/census-2011-release-2a

    42. McDuff says:

      Even without Brexit I believe we have a case for a second indy referendum. The fiasco of the “vow“ and the promises that were broken immediately after the No vote is enough. The `14 indyref wasn’t a fair or moral contest with the entire might of the UK government, MSM and big business blasting out lies and distortions 24/7 in the lead up to the vote. It was worthy of any Banana Republic dictatorship.
      There is the McCrone report and the theft of a section of our seas things that SNP seem strangely reluctant to mention when being interviewed by the media.
      Scotland has changed dramatically over the past 40 yeas, our manufacturing decimated, the disappearance of Scottish supermarkets( of which there were four different companies) all taken over by their English counterparts.
      Only English newspapers are reviewed on morning television ,presumably the views of the other parts of the UK being of no importance. Almost all programs networked across the UK are English which promotes southern culture both at home and abroad.
      Scotland is not treated as a country like Norway, Finland or Denmark but as a colony inhabited by ungrateful uneducated natives who could never survive without the guiding hand of mother England.
      Independence is not just about Brexit its about a hundred other things and I for one am waiting for the Scottish government to start highlighting them with a megaphone.

    43. shiregirl says:

      sassenach says:
      28 April, 2017 at 6:40 pm
      I was born in England, but came to live and work in Scotland over 50 years ago.

      I love Scotland and the Scots people but, for the life of me, I just cannot get my head round the large section of this country that will not see what Westminster is doing to them, every day – and what utter contempt these English MPs have for Scots.

      What the hell will it take to make these idiot Scots see what’s happening? Can they not see the daily propaganda on BBC? What kind of jackasses are they?

      Scotland the Brave??? Don’t make me laugh!! To me over half seem to be cowards, I’m afraid.

      Yup.

      And I can’t tell you how mental it sends you.

      People who have had their mobility cars taken, people who have had their benefits cut. People who get nothing for a third child unless they wave their rights and claim the child was a product of rape. More oil workers working in Baxters for minimum wage than most probably off shore.

      This is awful and I feel for them but what drives me ’round the pipe is the loyalty many (not all) have for Queen and country.By this I mean Queen and country and all things yoonyinist. Wtf?

      Why? what is it they don’t see? is it some misguided sense of loyalty to queen and country? Is it that they see SNP or Indy as nationalism which = bad?

      In Moray there is definitely a sense of this. Loads of retirees and ex forces. Many moved up or retired from England. There appears indifference to what is broadcast on MSM. It’s like they are on auto pilot and you can see everything happening…it’s very odd. I was born and brought up in Leith so seen the other side.

      I do not get it and it drives me nuts. Brings the inner Leither out of me.

    44. ScottishPsyche says:

      The new STV2 news is really quite good. Quite a light touch and fresh perspective on a variety of national and international topics. There is also less of the laboured avoidance or loaded statements seen on the BBC and STV local programmes.

    45. Elizabeth Stanley says:

      Tony Blair is a Scot.

      Alistair Darling is English.

      This blood & soil stuff is a bit tricky isn’t it?

    46. heedtracker says:

      Google Panama Papers, George Osborne Joanie. And I do exaggerate for effect. Osborne’s family trust funds fortune is stashed offshore, surely not to evade tax.

      Are they stashed in Ireland, why do voters keep on voting in kleptocrat tories like these reprobates?

      This is Gideon only last year,

      http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/george-osborne-dodges-questions-tax-affairs-family-video-terminates-interview-panama-papers-a6971146.html

      and

      http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/the-panama-papers-are-damaging-george-osborne-and-boris-johnsons-tory-party-leadership-chances-a6975506.html

      All of which is now buried by their beeb propaganda gimps, for good no doubt.

    47. Rock says:

      The Greens should not stand any candidate for the Westminster election.

      There is a very high risk of several SNP MPs being defeated by tactical voting by the unionists.

      The “independence supporting” The National should make this very clear to its readers.

      In the Scottish parliament, the Greens have mostly voted against the SNP.

      At Westminster, the only Green MP voted against the SNP, even though her vote would have made no difference.

      I blame the Greens for the re-election of the Tory Viceroy of Scotland last time.

      If they support independence, they should not behave as spoilsports again.

      Every independence supporting website should make this clear, in my view.

    48. Az says:

      Sensibledave @ 4.33pm

      You’re doing that thing I always notice is popular with Tory types, unionist types and so on. You make a statement which is essentially incorrect, then base an entire thesis upon it.

      “The SNP are the rallying point for Scottish Independence – and increased support would lead to indyref2”

      Dave, a second independence referendum is going to happen simply because it has been approved by the Scottish Parliament. Anything else (that’s you) is just white noise.

    49. Dan Huil says:

      @Elizabeth Stanley 7:24pm

      Only for britnats.

    50. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      You were almost right @Effijy says at 3:18 pm

      However:

      “They are the Party of the English Reich,
      For the English Reich, by the English Reich!”

    51. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      And dear old @sensibledave (who must be on shift for Rock) says at 4:47 pm

      “55% of English voters voted right of centre at the last election”.

      Exactly

      The old “White is right, kick them out and fight, fight, fight Fascist Brigade”

      As I said Tories (of all hues)

      “They are the Party of the English Reich,
      For the English Reich, by the English Reich!”

    52. Col says:

      So if Theresa Mayhem wants to block another referendum it has to be a deceleration of independence. I’m certain that Westminster will use every legal and illegal way it can to keep ownership of our resources. Also, if she concedes that another ref is ok and then tries to block under 16s and Johny foreigners then we should only then block Johny and Jenny English from voting.

    53. Ken500 says:

      The SNP will just have to get a majority in Holyrood again. Change back to FPTP. Illegally changed with no mandate for illegal non democratic reasons. Get Labour and the Greens out of the way. Then a straight fight with the Tories. The SNP would win hands down. There would be no Unionists or Greens to interfere in an Independehce campaign. Voila Independence no bother.

      Then the Parties that want can re-emerge. Scotland Independent in the EU. A great prosperous, more equal and fair country. More democratic etc.

      The Tory/Unionists are just disgusting. Wicked cheating liars. Always have been and always will be.
      The rest have got what they deserved. Labour/UKIP have just about destroyed the world. The Greens are irrelevant. Do not practise what they preach. Talk the talk but do not walk the walk. Maybe without the unionists they collude with at every opportunity to waste public money. They might re emerge more able to take responsibility and stand up for the principles they are supposed to upheld. Instead of manipulating posteuring in their own self interest. Wasting public money which could be better spent on essential service. Instead of just expecting to put tax up on hard pressed households for their nonsense.

      Best news ever the SNP Gov taking over some social security services. No sanctions of vulnerable will be more effective and cost less. The bureaucracy costs more than the benefit cuts. Illogical. Never ever, ever thought of living in a country that would leave children and the vulnerable starving. Just too despicable for words.

      Happier for once.

    54. heedtracker says:

      Future Sir Wullie Young OBE on the run in Aberdeen. Sir Wullie stood against Mark MacDonald at the Brig o Don, 2015, where it rapidly became clear just how much of a fcukwit he is on camera.

      What is it with yoon culture and klepto stuff. I am in public office, in the UK, ergo I have the right to fill my pockets with loot and booty, UKOK!

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-39731020

      Sir Wullie’s ban on Scotland flags from any ACC property is one of his lowlights, then he banned Scotland’s First Minister Alex Salmond from ACC property. Then at the ref 2014, he sent a vote NO or else letter to all Aberdeen council payers, costing us £40k. Tasty.

      TGIF:D

    55. Brian Powell says:

      My predictions are: in a couple years, after Brexit, there will be major riots in London.

      Any countries that open their doors to ‘UK subjects’ will acquire a huge chunk of the ‘UK’s future as the young leave.

      The talented in all fields will emigrate.

    56. Rock says:

      Terence callachan,

      “I don’t know what the solution is but I do find it strange that this is never discussed openly.”

      With some luck, we might start discussing it openly after we lose the next referendum.

      Which we definitely will do if we are stupid enough to again waste valuable time and resources on unsuccessfully trying to convince people who are highly unlikely to vote Yes.

      These people in my view are the vast majority of the selfish middle classes, the British nationalist elderly, the thugs and the English.

    57. galamcennalath says:

      McDuff says:

      Even without Brexit I believe we have a case for a second indy referendum. The fiasco of the “vow“ and the promises that were broken immediately after the No vote is enough.

      When ScotRef campaigning begins, which it surely will, we have a lot of ammo to throw at the Yoons. Their record last time, immediate follow up, and since has been abysmal. It can all be cast up to them. Also, they certainly won’t play it the same again, plus a Brexitised Union is going to be near impossible to sell.

      I’ve said this before, but I’m coming to the opinion that IndyRef1 was in fact a once in a generation/lifetime/whatever event. Put it this way … when will we ever be offered DevoMax, partnership of equals, and guaranteed EU membership? Never, I would say!

      That offer didn’t exactly stand the test of time! Weeks and it was eroded, two years and it was totally dead.

      So yes, enough reason for another ref by itself, but added to bad hard mad Brexit, we’d be daft not to have ScotRef. And, we’d be really really stupid not to opt for Indy.

    58. joannie says:

      No, headtracker, the Osborne family fortune is not stashed in Ireland. More likely one of Britain’s many corrupt little Crown dependencies like the Cayman Islands or the British Virgin Islands.

      The Irish media combed through the Panama papers when they were released, and found nothing major, much to their disappointment. The British Chancellor of the Exchequer, as he was then, stashing money here to avoid UK taxes would have been all over the news.

    59. pool9 says:

      May 4th is not far away.

      I hope the SNP do answer the tory leaflet avalanche.

      They should not let the propaganda go unanswered.

      Something with a good joke on it to burst the tory bubble would be perfect.

      So the next time anyone sees Ruth they remember, and smile, and say “Aye, right!” because they no longer buy her crap.

      Unfortunately I can’t do humour on tap – I’m an accidental comedian at best.

    60. galamcennalath says:

      Elizabeth Stanley says:

      Tony Blair is a Scot.

      Blair is proof that being born in Scotland doesn’t make you a Scot.

      Also, many great Scots alive today were born elsewhere.

      We should leave the blood and soil stuff to the Anglo-British Nationalists.

    61. heedtracker says:

      joannie says:
      28 April, 2017 at 7:54 pm
      No, headtracker, the Osborne family fortune is not stashed in Ireland

      Osborne suddenly steps in to save two Irish banks, out of the blue? This is not how tory guys work Joannie. Its naive of you to think they did this for niceness. Why did Osborne not do this for other foreign banks?

    62. Scott says:

      What has happened BBC Scotland have named Willie Young as a Labour councillor will someone get the sack they don’t mention Slab in connection with dodgy dealings mind you it was not the Bird reading the news.

    63. joannie says:

      Osborne didn’t save any Irish banks FFS! He loaned the Irish government money to be paid back with interest, he wasn’t doing us any favours.

    64. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      Aye, aye @Rock says at 7:33 pm

      I make that worth £11:00 to you

      and Rock says at 7:49 pm

      I make that worth £8:90 to you

      Does Better together Blair have to declare your payments as electoral expenses now he is standing in the GE?

      You never answered my question previously.

      Are you still getting a bonus for making ‘Cybernats completely lose it’?

      And your agenda is showing again

      Sowing dissent and division

      The National as usual and the Greens now I see.

      And a wee Anti English one just for good measure.

      Trollin’, Trollin’ Trollin, you just keep on Trollin….. (apologies to Rawhide).

    65. Legerwood says:

      heedtracker says:
      28 April, 2017 at 8:04 pm
      joannie says:
      28 April, 2017 at 7:54 pm
      No, headtracker, the Osborne family fortune is not stashed in Ireland

      “”Osborne suddenly steps in to save two Irish banks, out of the blue? This is not how tory guys work Joannie. Its naive of you to think they did this for niceness. Why did Osborne not do this for other foreign banks?””

      The loan to Ireland sanctioned by George Osborne was part of an international rescue package. The IMF were involved and the EU.

      Eorosceptics in the Tory party were critical of the loan but Mr Osborne stressed the IMF involvement and, of course, the fact that Ireland is a major trading partner. Therefore it was in UK’s interest to help with a loan.

      This has been repaid in full and with interest.

    66. Tam the Bam. says:

      Sassenach… 6-40pm

      Sadly…I have to include my own siblings in that number and of course they call me ‘the black sheep’ of the family (we are all baby-boomers by the way).

    67. heedtracker says:

      Legerwood says:
      28 April, 2017 at 8:31 pm
      heedtracker says:

      That’s tory spin. UK was also bust, check the date. How could Osborne, already relying on a half trillion dollar US Fed bank bail out for likes of RBS, suddenly find over £7bn for two Irish banks?

      Ireland is a single digit % UK trader.

    68. Tam the Bam. says:

      On a cheery note…just finished putting my window SNP posters up.

    69. joannie says:

      Headtracker – Osbourne borrowed the money at low interest and loaned it to the Irish government for twice the price. He was doing it to help Britain’s finances, not Ireland’s.

      And Ireland is the UK’s fifth biggest export market overall, and your largest export market for food and drink products.

    70. heedtracker says:

      joannie says:
      28 April, 2017 at 8:39 pm
      Headtracker –

      OK! You win, Osborne’s one of the good guys. Ireland’s not a major export market though and I know, what does major actually mean.

      Its Friday night Joannie, even in Ireland:D

    71. joannie says:

      Headtracker – George Osbourne was doing business, not being a good guy, and Ireland is your fifth biggest export market overall and top export market for food and drink. Facts being stubborn things an all…

      http://www.worldstopexports.com/united-kingdoms-top-import-partners/

    72. Thepnr says:

      Quiet tonight, have nothing much to do then well worth listening to this from Any Questions on R4 tonight from South Lanarkshire.

      Jeanne Freeman wipes the floor with Adam Tompkins. The audience are pretty good too 🙂

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/player/bbc_radio_fourfm

    73. Thepnr says:

      Sorry, that was a link to the live broadcast which has now ended.

      Correct link http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08n4pc4

    74. Breeks says:

      STV 2 sounds good.

      But since I don’t get STV 1 despite living 50 miles from our Capital city, it’s a bit irrelevant. I get English ITV news and the BBC, then folks wonder why the Borders votes Tory.

      Granted, the Borders maybe focuses the mind unfairly, but one of my biggest disappointments from before 2014 right up to date is the dismal failure to get some meaningful purchase on the lamentable state of Scottish broadcasting.

      I can appreciate the SNP’s logic in staying low key about Independence during Theresa’s General Election, keep the powder dry for ScotRef when Holyrood dictates the franchise, but I hope the SNP can agitate some steam in their manifesto to demand some devolution of broadcasting.

      I know Westminster won’t wear it, and the BBC would squeal for all their worth, but get the Tories on the back foot defending Scotland’s deprivations and grievances and you would give the SNP doorstep infantry good ammunition for face to face encounters.

      If Scotland returned an SNP result like the last one, but went further, and gave it a mandate to demand some devolution of broadcasting, then there might be some point to Mays election.

      I say some devolution of broadcasting; I wouldn’t harm a hair on the head of the BBC. Leave it be and let it stew in its own juice. Don’t make the mistake of trying to replace the BBC, merely fight for the right for a Scottish Broadcaster to co-exist.

      Vote winner? I think so.

    75. Ed t head says:

      I caught any questions and it was good Adam tompkins even got a put down from J Dimbeliy he sounded like a right plank trying to put the party line. I think the BBC let in more nats than planned as they were not Adams fans.

    76. Black Joan says:

      Very pleasantly surprised by tonight’s Any Questions from Blantyre.

      WATP Tomkins alone in his hymn to the PM and his attempts at party propaganda and defence of the R* clause were met with boos.

      Worth catching on i-Player or tomorrow’s repeat araound 1pm.

      Expect the Proud Scot But backlash to be out in force for tomorrow’s phone-in Any Answers, though.

    77. Legerwood says:

      heedtracker @ 8.35

      Not Tory spin. UK was on the hook to help with the EU/IMF bailout because Labour had signed up the UK to contribute to an EU fund which was used to help the Euro.

    78. Tinto Chiel says:

      “Expect the Proud Scot But backlash to be out in force for tomorrow’s phone-in Any Answers, though.”

      True, Black Joan, but let’s savour the Blan’yre moment.

      When Miliband came to the town after Joanne Lamont’s shameful Asda scaremongering during the 2014 Referendun campaign, he approached an old boy at his gate to patronise the Carmichael out of him.

      Instead he got, “You’re no welcome in Blan’yre, Mr Miliband!”

      Ah, the memories!

      Think Joanne and Mad Mags Curran got whacked for that.

      Wie schade!

      Not.

    79. Black Joan says:

      Nae fear, Tinto Chiel, I’m savouring it.

      Was expecting usual BBCUKOK Dimbleby-against-independence-fest and instead heard people booing Tomkins and the Tories.

      Loved the response given by the woman who asked the question about the R* clause. I think it was quite clear what the third word she “couldn’t say” was.

    80. John from Fife says:

      Regarding the devolution of Broadcasting. Why don’t the SNP start asking the BBC to return the £200M of Scottish Licence payer money that they keep and spend in England each year.

    81. Tinto Chiel says:

      “Was expecting usual BBCUKOK Dimbleby-against-independence-fest and instead heard people booing Tomkins and the Tories.”

      Yes, but let’s just wait until tomorrow’s attempts at “balance”.

      We heard last week’s Any Answers? keech driving to Aberfoyle and counted the crazy woman from Whitby talking about getting behind “that woman”, presumably the Preying Mayntis, about nine times.

      As Frank Z would say, “Weasels rip my flesh!”

    82. Maryscot says:

      I am a Scot living in England and believe me, Theresa May is not liked one bit by half the population (if not more). Do not believe what you read or hear from the media. Most of them have been silenced and are not allowed to report freely. MP’s under investigation by the CPS, MP’s standing down, Government tried to delay the ruling regarding the problem of pollution in London from becoming public knowledge until after the GE but the judge yesterday ruled that it has to be addressed before then. The wheels are truly coming off. Stay strong and we will beat the tories.

      lot of us wish Nicola was our PM

    83. Artyhetty says:

      Re;McDuff@6.58

      Well said. Lest we forget, the total onslaught, the total anti democratic tactics used against Scotland, and not just in 2014. You could write a novel, it would be epic. Now we have to ensure that the future of Scotland as a functioning, 21st century democracy, is secured, asap. Stable, , hm hm, and er, strong, and forward looking, and well able to stand on her own two feet.

      No thanks to the UK gov continuing to siphon away Scotland’s resources, keeping Scotland shackled, keeping Scotland poor and begging.

      Just, no thanks to colonialism, it’s not fit for the 21st century, not in Scotland, not anywhere!

    84. Black Joan says:

      Very dangerous to have Any Answers on while driving or operating machinery, Tinto Chiel. Possibly even more dangerous than Call K with an E.

      It’s unlikely to reach an audience anything like as large as Any Questions, so attempts at UKOK “balance” probably doomed on this one wonderful occasion.

    85. Robert Louis says:

      O/T

      Technically, Bob Geldof, is not ‘sir’ Bob Geldof. Despite a knighthood, he is not from the UK or (no sniggering…The Commonwealth), and so is not technically labelled a ‘sir’.

      Such is the nonsense from the gongs and baubles in the backward world of old London Town.

    86. defo says:

      I wonder if herself, and her troupe of (f)lying monkeys knocked this gem out at Holyrood?

      I’m sure Ken will give her a right good telling to!

    87. Effijy says:

      I get very frustrated when I get a reply from the Tory Government in response to me signing petitions, such as this one against the horrific R*pe Clause.

      Condescending clap trap is mine by return.
      They just don’t understand what they are doing to people, and they just don’t care!

      The Government has responded to the petition you signed – “Scrap the “rape clause” and the “family cap” on social security payments.”.
      Government responded:
      By limiting certain benefits and tax credits to two children, all families now face similar choices about how many children they can afford to support. In certain circumstances, exceptions can apply.
      The policy that limits support to a maximum of two children in Tax Credits and Universal Credit was announced in the 2015 Summer Budget, and was debated during the passage of the Welfare Reform and Work Act. It became law in March 2016 and came into effect from 6th April 2017.
      Families supporting themselves solely through work do not see their incomes rise automatically when they have more children. The policy encourages families who receive benefits or tax credits to make the same financial decisions about the number of children they can afford to support as those families who support themselves solely through work, while protecting the vulnerable by retaining extra support for families with disabled children.
      Parents continue to receive help with the cost of raising children through the payment of Child Benefit, which continues to be paid regardless of family size.
      Some claimants are not able to make the same choices about the number of children in their family as others. For that reason, there are a series of exceptions to the restriction.
      The Government invited views from stakeholders in a full consultation from 21 October 2016 to 27 November 2016 on the detail and implementation of the exceptions, including the non-consensual conception exemption, and contacted organisations across the UK who might have an interest in the policy. We received 82 responses with around 50 from organisations and this feedback informed a response, published on Friday 20th January 2017. This reflected comments and suggestions made as part of the consultation, including adding children conceived through controlling and coercive relationships, using aspects of the legal definition of the criminal offence of “controlling or coercive behaviour in an intimate or family relationship” legislated for by the Home Office, within the non-consensual conception exception.
      In recognition of the sensitive and complex nature of the exception for non-consensual conception, the Government took the decision not to rely solely on the criminal justice system and to use a third party model where a claimant may provide evidence to support their request for the exemption through engaging with a third party professional. The selected third party professionals are those who can also provide individuals with, or signpost them to, further support. In some cases this will mean they can use a third party professional that they have already established a relationship with. The intention is to strike the right balance between ensuring claimants in these circumstances get the support they need in a not overly intrusive manner whilst at the same time providing the right assurance that the additional support is going to those for whom it is intended.
      Department for Work and Pensions
      Click this link to view the response online:
      https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/195077?reveal_response=yes
      The Petitions Committee will take a look at this petition and its response. They can press the government for action and gather evidence. If this petition reaches 100,000 signatures, the Committee will consider it for a debate.
      The Committee is made up of 11 MPs, from political parties in government and in opposition. It is entirely independent of the Government. Find out more about the Committee: https://petition.parliament.uk/help#petitions-committee

    88. Tinto Chiel says:

      Black Joan: wise words.

      Kay with an E has been off my radar for years. At my age, the blood pressure cannae take it. Oh, here’s Nursie coming with my injection…..

    89. The Dog Philosopher says:

      @ Robert Louis

      On that very subject, does anyone know what will happen to the ermine wrapped Scots when independence is achieved? Will they have to hand back the gladrags and accept commoner status?

      One ton of popcorn at the ready …

    90. Meindevon says:

      O/T Just had a short chat with the son of a friend who is studying history with a special interest in journalism down here in DDD. I started by saying how bad Scottish ‘journalism’ was. He said a colleague specialised in Scottish politics. Ooh I thought this could be interesting! Alas no, he started with the SNP have no substance, Scotland is subsidised by the English, Ruth Davidson is on the up (recent very reputable polls said so), education is in a bad way and NHSScotland is even worse, etc..

      I did my best but it was tough going. I asked if he had heard about the attacks on John Nicolson’s office and the SNP HQ. Oh no funnily enough not. Also had he heard RD was in trouble for breaching electoral rules for filming in Party Political stuff in Holyrood? Again no. I said that these kind of things are kept very quiet even in Scotland.

      Speaking to two ladies later, both disliked May. One really hated her as her job involved foreign students and tory policy and Brexit was damaging to what she did. Neither had heard anything about the Tory electoral fraud and were shocked to hear about it. Many people down here have not heard about it. (Doing my best to spread the word)

    91. Cactus says:

      Feel free.
      X.

    92. Thepnr says:

      @Cactus

      Since I’m feeling generous tonight and most normal people have went to bed I’ll play this for you as your one of the good guys.

      https://www.vevo.com/watch/tom-petty/free-fallin/USUV70602159

    93. K1 says:

      Just finished listening to Any Questions thanks for the link Thpnr…it’s affy hard tae listen tae him, but yes Jeanne wiped the floor wi him and he was rounded on by the audience rightly so after his word for word repeat of the same pish he spouted in the parly debate on the r clause. Och but it wis guid tae hear a proportional and more accurate reflection of Scotland against the Tories for a change instead of the usual one sided hand picked audience, utterly biased emphasis against the SNP wi a responsive and Scottish well humoured audience.

      Mair o’ that please. (Aye ‘n al no be listening tae Any Answers either…am no daft just like maist o’ us)

    94. Thepnr says:

      @K1

      Yes the audience from Blantyre were brilliant tonight. Can you just imagine what the support for Independence would be now with TRUE representation and coverage in the media and the BBC in particular.

      I can, it would be over 60%. Never mind we have what we have and we soldier on. No other choice, frankly.

    95. Thepnr says:

      BUT the message is obviously getting out there. We just keep doing what we’re doing. So no giving up and no giving in. We carry on.

    96. Graeme Doig says:

      Thepnr

      Agreed. It could be easy to get disheartened by the thought of fellow country men and women turning to the Tories. Seems that folk with low iq’s have found an out!et for their hate.

      The Tories will play on this as trump did. It works.

      I am gonna work doubly hard to do what I can to get SNP counsellors and mp elected.

      I want to be able to say that I did all I could to fight the Tories. I can’t stomach the thought of these heartless bastards having any control over Scot!and

    97. Col says:

      I think we should never bow to pressure about taking indy off the table. We should make it clear that no one can ever stand in the way of Scotland taking it’s sovereignty back from Westminsters clutches.
      Make it clear that if we are stupid enough to say no again that indy is always an option. We might just annoy folk into saying yes so it’s put to bed.
      How anyone could think that going over the brexit cliff with the tories is going to be in any way good for Scotland is beyond my comprehension and I hope enough folk see this in time.

    98. Meg merrilees says:

      T May to make a trip to Aberdeen later today. She is expected to say in her speech that Scotland will flourish under the Tories.
      The Tank-commander says this proves that TMay is more in touch with the people of Aberdeen that Nicola Sturgeon is.

    99. Hamish100 says:

      Northern Ireland will be allowed to enter the EU with no problems if reunification occurs with the RoI.

      BBC R4 World News.

    100. Robert Peffers says:

      This really hits the nail dead centre.

      It plainly highlights the totally muddled headed mind-set of all three Westminster Unionist branch offices in Scotland.

      They keep repeating the same two, senseless and meaningless chants, like some oriental Triumvirate of little parrots.

      “The SNP and Nicola Sturgeon should stick to their day jobs of running Scotland”.

      and –

      “We guarantee you that *********,” (insert unionist party name of your choice), “will oppose them in everything the try to do.”

      In hasn’t ever entered their muddled headed minds that, if the electorate are competent enough to have learned to read to at least primary one level, the electorate will understand that both idiotic soundbite mean the unionist are 100% guaranteeing to prevent the day job of running Scotland from ever being done.

      Now I’m aware there are some gyte numpties in Scotland but on the whole we Scots are a, (and I use this term in its proper Scots meaning and not what the English wrongly assume it to mean), canny nation of voters.

      For our English commenters :-

      canny :-
      1 – cautious; careful; prudent; astute.
      2 – skilful; dexterous.
      3 – favourable, lucky, of good omen.
      4 – of canny-man or canny-wife – person who deals in the supernatural.
      5 – frugal, sparing.
      6 – gentle, quiet or steady.
      7 – pleasant, good, kind.
      8 – comfortable, easy

      Note that when there are so many English alternatives it usually indicates there is no single, direct equivalent English, word.

      Yet most Englanders, (Geordies excepted), will understand, “canny”, translates as, “mean”, or “parsimonious”, and almost a direct opposite of the actual Scottish meaning.

      It’s been a long hard day – I’m off to bed.

    101. Graeme Doig says:

      Councillors even

    102. Meg merrilees says:

      Just a RemInder folks – this group, Scotref Express, needs help to print Indy ref 2 kits – everything that Yes groups need to kickstart the grassroots Indy movement.

      Please try to give something. So far they have only received 16% and there are only 5 days left to reach their target.

      Help to defeat the tories and T May.
      https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/scotref-express-europe/x/6905220#/

    103. Grouse Beater says:

      Some early thoughts for the election this Bank Holiday weekend: http://wp.me/p4fd9j-f9P

    104. Robert Peffers says:

      Oh! Meant to say, before I go to bed, that I had a wee chuckle at sensibledaves daft assessment of the English voters being 55%, “Right of Centre”, but not realising that being right of centre is an indication of the rich.

      I refer sensibledave to :-

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centre-right_politics

    105. Cactus says:

      Aweright Thepnr.

      Top tune.

      Living, after midnight.

      I wonder if Chris will have a pre local election toon for us today?

      Cheers.

    106. William Wallace says:

      Stu.

      I might have had a wee single malt too many here but…

      Get the book wrote. You have the whole sorry debacle in notes ready for chapters and chapters ready for the book. Make it concise, easily digestible and cheap to distribute.

      You are in a unique position here but, your message needs to reach a wider audience.

      I, alongside many others will do our utmost to ensure it receives as wide an audience as possible.

      The tale is there to be written and may well be looked upon as a book of historical significance should independence come to pass.

      You have the cash to kick back and a willing set of troops behind ya. Fekin go for it.

      Take em down and lift us up.

      This is the time!

    107. K1 says:

      Here is a quick two paragraph example of how the UK gov ‘deals’ with Scotland.

      These snippets from the letters exchanged between David Davis and Mike Russell re ‘Scotland’s Place in Europe’.

      This from Davis in his opening paragraphs in response to Mike’s letter regarding the progress of the UK gov’s response to the white paper. (SPiE):

      ‘It is my belief that we agree on the large majority of subjects we have discussed in the past few months. In many we agree in totality; in a few we agree on the ends, even if there is some difference in the means. I do not believe that there are any substantial points of difference between the principles we wish to adhere to in entering these negotiations. We have a shared interest in the future success of the UK as an…’

      This from Mike in his response to the above:

      ‘You are also aware from our telephone conversation on Wednesday 29 March that I do not concur with your view that we have reached agreement on the “large majority of subjects we have discussed in the past few months”. Even a cursory examination of the agendas for the four JMC (EN) meetings held to date show that this is not the case. Therefore, whilst we welcome your commitment to “close engagement with the Scottish Government and other devolved administrations” we must reiterate our view that these should be meaningful, based on trust, openness and a genuine sharing of options and policy positions as well as data and must give real opportunities to influence the process.’

      Ye see it’s clear that Davis, the UK gov minister for Exiting the EU, has every intention of re writing the exchanges taking place and no intention of ever honouring any aspect of our government’s position regarding Brexit.

      Here’s the whole exchange in the unabridged correspondence from them both. Brexit means ‘fuck you Scotland’, no really it does. Read Davis’s waffle and obsfucation and delight in the brass neck of a man lying through his teeth even in ‘recalling’ the ‘actual’ conversation he had with Mike Russel on the 29th March.

      We are dealing with double dealing swine.

      http://www.parliament.scot/S5_European/General%20Documents/CTEER_Minister_M.Russell_2017.04.27.pdf

    108. Chick McGregor says:

      @Scotrock

      “Sorry for stating the obvious.
      Losing up to 12 of our MPs will only strengthen the unionist cause(in their eyes)
      What people are thinking off by not voting SNP is beyond me.”

      What you seem to be failing to grasp is that under FPTP, even if the SNP do not lose any percentage of the vote at all, they could still, easily, lose 12 MPs or even many more simply depending on how the rest of the vote splits between the other parties.

      If enough red tory Britnats decide to make a small political adjustment and back the blue tories then that could easily happen – very easily.

      No drop in SNP support is required, just a drop in political integrity on behalf of the Britnats.

    109. yesindyref2 says:

      Ruth Davidson: “And we need to tell her that her government should get back to the job they were elected to do – improving our schools and hospitals and growing our economy. You have my guarantee that the Scottish Conservaatives will oppose the SNP every day of the week.

      Good heavens, so Ruth Davidson can actually be Truth Davidson. Wonders will never cease.

      I look forward to her next election communication, which will probably mean the Conservatives will have spent far more than allowed. It goes like this.

      “And we need to tell the people of Scotland that the UK Conservative party led by Theresa May is far far right, making UKIP and the old BNP dead jealous, doesn’t like immigrants, the poor, the disabled, those fallen on hard times, the old, the young, public workers, hard workers, sick workers, foreign workers, EU workers, or anyone who isn’t privileged like what we is, that we’re more harsh, cruel and inhumane than even Thatcher was, and that we the Scottish Conservatives follow orders from Theresa May on everything and don’t stand up for North Britain at all or anyone who isn’t like us”.

    110. Iain More says:

      @ Chic McGregor

      “No drop in SNP support is required, just a drop in political integrity on behalf of the Britnats.”

      Uhmm the Britnats have no political integrity Chic. In addition they are unthinking morons. It is all too easy for the SNP and Scotland haters in the Brit Nat Labour Party in particular to transfer their votes to the Tories. It is even easier for them when they have Labour Party politicians telling them to do it and the Brit Nat Press and Media megaphones blaring out the same message daily and several times a day.

      I suspect Scotrock might be quite young but on the upside it is the case that the Yoon generations are dying off. The bleating unthinking sheep are being culled by time itself. He gives them too much credit in that he thinks them capable of thought and of acting in a selfless manner.

    111. pool9 says:

      It will be incredible to me to find out that folk who voted Labour forever, who spat at the thought of voting Tory, would choose to vote Tory now.

      It would be very saddening to see. I hope the polls and the elections do not bear this out.

      Can the unionists unite to vote tactically in each constituency effectively?

      That requires intelligence and organisation. Here’s hoping unionist incompetence and infighting win the day for Scotland again.

      Vote for Independence. SNP first, Tory dead last in the Council elections, SNP in the GE.

      maryscot @ 10.34pm : that is heartening news. May the architects of propaganda realise their power can only go so far. I hope England surprises the shite out of the Conservatives, but I can’t get too optimistic. I’d never heard about the London pollution thing – something else swept under the rug. Thanks for the heads up.

      They can’t stop the signal.

    112. Macart says:

      ‘Get on with the day job’

      I’m wondering at this point if people know what government does for a living? More specifically what responsible government does for a living?

      It’s important for the reader to understand what actually underpins the ideologies of both Conservative government and SNP government I reckon.

      Your Conservative government and the Westminster parliamentary system believe in top down power. Parliamentary sovereignty and power derived from the crown. In short, the people, the population owe the state their taxes, their loyalty, their lives. The population exists to serve the state and support the power and privilege of the few.

      Traditionally and as far as generations of Scots have been concerned for some three hundred years and change, that’s how things are. In England needless to say that’s gone on for a bit longer. The many serve the few and the few, when they can be arsed, deign to look after the interests of the many so long as it suits their needs.

      In times of good management, expansion and plenty (see under empire), the many benefit from the largesse of a contented few. They can afford it after all at this point. In times of bad management, contraction and want, the dead wood (that would be you mainly) are cut loose and the power and wealth are centralised to protect the lifestyles and power structures to which the few have become accustomed. Heaven forfend that the poor dears suffer in any way shape or form.

      The state and the order is ALL. The people serve the state. If the state hits hard times, the people need to tighten THEIR belts in order that the state and established order does not. No duty of care. No public service. No ‘unity’ or common weal. Simply ‘dae as yer telt’ because… badgers and it’s for your own good.

      Mmmkay?

      Now yer SNP Scottish government have a somewhat different outlook. They believe that the power rests with the people. That parliament derives its direction, its power and mandate from the wants, needs and aspirations of the population. That the government of the day reflects the mandate of its population.

      Mad, ah know!

      Basically everything which defines Westminster UK government? Reverse that and you have the belief system of the current Scottish government. Not all of the Holyrood parliament holds this belief of course, but that’s a work in progress.

      Essentially though government is very, very simple. I happen to believe that the state and the party politician owe the people service, loyalty, a duty of care and the ability to live with dignity. The basics for all our requirements at point of need.

      Politics, government is and should be simple. It’s about meeting our needs. Putting food on our table. Keeping us safe and well. Protecting our inalienable human rights and interests.

      In exchange we pay taxes to meet those needs and pay our public servants accordingly to administer and manage those needs.

      THAT IS ‘the day job’.

      So which parliament has the right idea? It’s up to readers of course, but I know which government model I prefer.

    113. Smallaxe says:

      Good Morning, Links get your Fresh links Here, you lucky People.
      All the way from exotic succulent Sources.Courtesy of a Queen!

      Scotland election trends
      Basically counts google searches so will be based on much bigger sample than the usual polls which are around 1000 people.
      https://trends.google.com/trends/story/GB_cu_QpXMi1sBAADVnM_en

      http://www.alynsmith.eu/scotland_in_europe_update_28th_april_2017

      http://www.ericjoyce.co.uk/2017/04/stv-will-give-us-our-greens/

      Yet another banking/tory scandal
      https://twitter.com/RogMull/status/857988949322731521

      Peace Always

    114. Fred says:

      Thanx for the Lynx Smallaxe, Wings seems to be at its best on the nightshift, eh no?

    115. Smallaxe says:

      Fred, Wings is just like Earth in Heaven, Grrreat all round 24/7.
      😎

      Peace Always

    116. Smallaxe says:

      BTW, Fred, don’t thank me the Lady does the HARD work for Free!
      😉

      Peace Always

    117. Capella says:

      Hi Smallaxe
      It’s the early bird that gets the links. You’re working well for an apprentice.

    118. Ken500 says:

      It’s easy. The SNP need to continue to get a 2ndRef going. Get a majority in Holyrood. Change back to FPTP. Deliberately illegally changed by troughing Unionists, They are condescending manipulating liars who have taken £Billions out of Scotland, which could have been saved or better spent. They kept it hidden under the Official Secrets Act. An act of aggression. They tried to destroy Scotland. Just like they destroy the world.

      Illegal wars, financial fraud and tax evasion. Killing and maiming millions of innocent vulnerable people the world over. The UK/US have caused the worst migration crisis in the world since the 11WW. The coarse, greedy, nasty liars. Toxic. Westminster is full of them. They are wicked beyond comprehension. They keep their criminality illegally and secretly hidden under the Official Secrets Act. An appalling disgrace.

      The Labour/LibDem deserve all that they get for consorting with the Tories. The Greens collude with the unionists at every opportunity. Taking votes from the SNP at every opportunity to collude with unionists to waste £Billions of public money on grotesque projects of little value. Public funds which could be saved or better spent on essential services. They then want to tax hard pressed households more. Nonsense and idiocy.. Get them out of the equation. Out of the way.

      They should stand aside. If they have nothing better to do than confuse the issue for self interest. Renege on all their supposed principles. They do it incessantly. Just out of self seeking, poseur interest. ‘Look at me’. ‘Look at me’ So self sacrificing. Even Lesley Riddoch, who can talk a good talk, but walk the walk? If health issues allow. They just want to call the shots. Sitting in the fence. Blinkered to the wider issue. A one Party interest group. The most unpopular interest pressure group. With the most unpopular policies. No diversity. Or wide umbrella reach. There is no time for that now. Time is running out. Get stuck in and join the fight. This is no time to be ‘special’. Special joint consolidating energy is needed.

      Everyone who believes in Independence vote SNP. A straight fight with the Tories. The SNP will win hands down. Crush them. Scotland will be Independent in the EU. Or have a vote on it. Out of the grasp of the criminal, disgusting Tories. Other Parties can re emerge and prosper. Diversity will return. Scotland will be a much more prosperous, fairer equal happier democratic society. It will break Westminster’s ‘psycho bastards’ power. The world will be a better place.

      The Independence supporters vote SNP. The Union supporters vote Tory. The SNP will walk it. Get the rest out of the way. That is important. Scotland is fighting for it’s life. It’s very existence. Brexit will be a disaster for the world. The Westminster unionists are trying to destroy the world economy. They are in so much debt they can’t even have an independent, foreign, defence, social, or economic policy. In the grasp of foreign institutions, secret entitities and forces. The Tory/Unionists are evil, dangerous perpetual liars. Killing and maiming the vulnerable. The rest of them are no better. No opposition. They dislike children. Kill off the elderly. Their own voters.

      Now is not the time for the faint hearted. Now is the time for unity and strength in Scotland. A chance to screw the ‘psycho bastards’. Grab it with both hands. It is within Scotland’s grasp. To finally get rid of the Westminster unionists lying, colluding sycophants.

      At last children and vulnerable people in Scotland can stop being sanctioned. The bureaucracy costs more than the cuts. Illogical. Happier about that. So much to do so little time. Get stuck in. Where ever possible. If folk are able. SNP/SNP Labour last in ACC and GCC. Not many Tories there. Tories last in the NE. Do not deviate. The rest can take their chances. FPTP would have devastated them long ago, Scotland would have been Independent long ago. If the truth had been known. Not propping up the crooks at Westminster with devastating effect. The world would have been a more peaceful, decent happy place. There are still dreams to complete.

      Rev Luther King. ‘I have a dream’. The dream did not exactly come true. He was assassinated. Look at the State of the US now. Congress not fit for purpose and in peril. Maybe they should face the world, take responsibility and stop starving the North Koreans. Trump should go back to the day job building golf courses. Have a bit of self respect. Or look at the alternative. Being illegally run by the CIA and NSA. Another out of contiol bunch of illegal crooks. 10 years imprisonment for bad behaviour, At least in the US some of the crooks go to jail. Although 26,000 In the US, a year, are killed in gun crime.

      Scotland has friends in the EU all over the world. 10% of voters of Scottish descent in the US. Enough to swing the vote. Mr McAllister 2nd in command in Germany. Even argued with the UKIP MEP. EU membership is the best bargain to be had in the world. Now is the time for Scotland. Let’s do it. For the children and future generations. People have waited a lifetime for the opportunity. Never believing it would come so swiftly and so soon. Like a bolt out of the blue. Do not waste it.

      Some of the comments lately are gregarious. Re blank sheets of paper and vacant coupons flying about. Councillors being chased up the street. To finally get their comeuppance. The fraud revealed? Most of them should be in jail. Wings still soaring above. Giving a laugh in controversial times.

    119. Smallaxe says:

      Bonus: Two more links and I’ll be frank I like the one about the Yank!

      https://www.thecanary.co/2017/04/28/breaking-dark-money-hsbc-won-conservatives-2010-general-election/

      Young American lad knows more about Scottish politics than some Scots.
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=1EsbfzNP39M&app=desktop

      Peace Always

    120. Stoker says:

      Ruth Davidson?

      Proven liar and clueless aggressive loudmouth failure. Covets Dim Jim’s title of Chief Bullshitter Extraordinaire second only to a seat in The House of Lords.

    121. Ken500 says:

      Sorry it’s a bit long. Again. Have nearly paid the dues.

      Thanks Stu. For helping bring sanity to the world.

      Thanks Nana. Once again.

      Brilliant links as usual.

    122. Smallaxe says:

      Capella, the SNP are giving away Apprenticeships left and right.

      Luckily, I was standing in the Middle!
      😎

      Peace Always

    123. DerekM says:

      @ Smallaxe

      The young American chap does not hold back,must have been a Scot in a previous life since he swears like a Scot lol

      I shall keep my vile cybernat eye on his channel just in case he gets the screaming mental yoontube zoomers crashing it 😉

    124. Smallaxe says:

      Thanks, Derek, I’m kept busy guarding the Borders
      😉

      Peace Always

    125. David C says:

      I am slow on the uptake, but it came to me…

      What is it that smells “strong and stable” – horse sh*t!

      Lets hope its only the roses that benefit from it this summer.

    126. Willie says:

      Interesting how in exhorting unionists to send Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP a message that they couldn’t ignore, one or more in their ranks actually did when they sent powder packages to SNP offices.

      An incitement to violence, a call to war, it’s the Brit Nat way and Scotland, will be treated much as the Spanish are in relation to Gibraltar.

    127. Ken MacColl says:

      TRUTH and RUTH are not the same!

    128. FIONA TOMANY says:

      my nephew Darren MClachlan is currently slating the SNP over education but he is is one of the many who benifited from further education being free and how did he repay them by dropping out and costing the tax payers millions he should be forced to pay it all back

    129. FIONA TOMANY says:

      my nephew Darren McLachlan is currently slating the SNP over education but he is one of the many who benefited from further education being free and how did he repay them by dropping out and costing the tax payers millions he should be forced to pay it all back



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