All Vegetarians Are Nazis
Because 2020 is the maddest year in history, Ruth Davidson opened her contribution to Holyrood’s debate on the Brexit deal today with a lengthy quote from this website.
Because hey, why NOT, right?
We thought we’d preserve it for posterity and lolz, because it’s not something we’re the least bit ashamed of. Human existence is almost never black and white. Sometimes people you despise can be right about things, sometimes people you respect can be wrong about things, and if you lack the maturity to deal with that, the shame is on you.
(There’s no better example than that living embodiment of 2020’s madness, the trans debate. Nobody of a leftish persuasion wants to be on the same side as Piers Morgan and on the opposite side to Billy Bragg, but if one of them’s right and one of them’s wrong then those are the breaks. If you decide your ideology based on personalities rather than facts you’re a drooling moron and please don’t read our website.)
A few of the usual suspects have of course leapt with glee on the quotation as if it were some sort of smoking gun, a position which is roughly as intellectually sound as saying all vegetarians must be genocidal anti-Semites because Hitler was one, or boycotting Maltesers because you found out that Jimmy Savile really liked them.
(They include some people who are just jealous of a site that anyone is reading.)
But the bottom line is that Davidson was right, because she was quoting a source that was right. The SNP gave away an idiotic and needless own-goal today, opposing a deal that even only 10% of Remain voters wanted opposed, and by effectively voting for no-deal they made themselves look almost as stupid and cynical and unprincipled as Labour, who hilariously voted on opposite sides at Westminster and Holyrood.
If Ruth Davidson – an ardent and active Remainer, let’s remember – has the basic wit to see that and Nicola Sturgeon doesn’t, then the truth is that that reflects a lot worse on Nicola Sturgeon (and the pathetic pygmies snarking about it on social media as a substitute for anyone ever caring about anything they say) than it does on either Ruth Davidson or Wings Over Scotland.
As for us, we’re just shrugging and putting it down to 2020. We fear that far madder things than Ruth Davidson making sense for once are lurking just over the horizon.
The Piers Morgan / Billy Bragg thing sums it up. It’s a crazy mixed up world.
They missed an open goal by not following Tim Rideouts advice and making a statement by walking out.
As long as we have Slippers Wishart among others clinging on to their position they are fucked.
Yes it seems since she quoted you that you must be a yoon, a plant or ‘got at’ honestly can’t cope with that level of stupidity ?
Wulls…
They didn’t miss an open goal – they missed the flipping ball, hoofed their right boot over the bar then landed flat on their arse.
Whk actually gives an eff ? Its all they have got now. It was a long time ago when messengers were scared to give bad news because it cost them their life.
They need a fall guy to cover the lack of action from their own leaders Your it bud.
Under the SNP there will be no referendum and therfore no Independence. There. I’ve said it. It wont be your fault Stu.
.
Never thought I would be happy about no longer being a member of the SNP but with people like Mr Wishart involved i’m not only happy i’m highly delighte! Aye they missed a sitter.
Well that’s Brexit been allowed to run it’s course almost completely unhindered with no embarrassing interventions.
All boxes “ticked” and options closed off.
Peoples Front of Judea Committee Meeting time now.
“They would prefer you censor yourself to give comfort to their ignorance” . How very very true.
From my understanding, and I’ll be happy to be corrected if I am wrong, Northern Ireland is still in the EU in all but name. IMHO, the current SNP strategy and their reasoning behind their voting is the same.
If my reasoning is correct then the difference between Northern Ireland and Scotland is that Northern Ireland is part of an international agreement that would be broken if any other arrangement occurred and has powerful friends in the American political system. Scotland has a powerful legal case as well but choose not to do follow that. In doing so, they have no case of pursuing the current strategy as they haven’t a leg to stand upon.
I’m not sure what the SNP strategy really is and what they were trying to achieve but it does sound like they were taking a knife to a gunfight where they didn’t think things through and didn’t have the heart to take it to it’s conclusion.
It’s hardly surprising that the SNP MP’s get laughed an jeered at because they are nothing but paper tigers.
It’s true, James Bond didn’t cease being fond of Dom Perignon ’52 after he found out that Stromberg favoured it too.
Seriously, why do we keep talking of Sturgeon’s SNP missing open goals? They don’t even attempt the open goals.
I’m a vegetarian. 😉
The SNP will offer no practical support of Scotland’s culture or democracy, without adopting a cognitive approach to law that is supportive of relational autonomy. So they’d need to drop the GRA amendments for a start.
Discrimination-Reducing Measures at the
Relational Level
https://repository.uchastings.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=3705&context=hastings_law_journal
Did she state the source of her comment somewhen?
They are the enlightened and everyone else is an idiot.
The same survey shows that 47% of Scots thought they should accept the deal against 17% that thought they should reject it.
Still, the supreme leader is not one to let democracy get in the way of imposing her will.
So here’s a look at some social psychology.
Relational Models Theory
http://psychology.iresearchnet.com/social-psychology/social-psychology-theories/relational-models-theory/
You know that means to some (Bella Caledonia leading the charge) that you are a yoon and are in bed with Mooth Davidson and the tories now?
An independent observer could, on the basis of all the evidence, be forgiven for regarding NS as pro-Brexit.
The SNP could not have done any less.
Gesture politics throughout, without any material substance.
25 hours, and counting.
He he – there’ll be even more folk coming to the site now. Result.
Tim Rideout nailed it – thats the way ahead.
There are a few glimmers of hope in this shit show –
1. The new members of the NEC – they are fired up and most will put pressure on the numpties in charge and make them shift on independence – plus the decent members – they are waking up too.
2. Indy is at 58% – the vast majority of those will still think that the snp are serious re indy.
3. Holyrood enquiries – Alex testimony could sharpen minds plus will Nicola get the heave ho over fibbing?
What are the barriers to indy? The BBC, the media and sadly Nic, Pete and the gang . (Point number 3 could rectify this though.)
Best case scenario – holyrood a plebiscite election – snp 1, best placed indy party 2 (its looking like the ISP at the mo – the greens can go whistle if they can’t even keep someone as good as AndyW on board) – and a ton of unionists kicked out of Holyrood. Then the end of the union – simples!
If not it’s time to ditch the snp and get behind a new indy party after May. Sadly history will be repeating itself. 100 years ago Robert Cunningham Grahame ditched the Labour Party that he co founded as they went soft on Home Rule. Off he trotted and formed theSNP.
Lennie says: 30 December, 2020 at 10:57 pm
The Scottish constitutional question has become a cottage industry for quite a few people in Scotland and framing your comment that would serve quite a few people financially for quite a long time.
I responded to Bella’s tweet which said “Ruth Davidson quoting Stuart Campbell in the Scottish Parliament, a perfect unity and symbol of 2020 Flag of United KingdomWoozy face “ i responded Stuart Campbell has done More for and will continue to do more for the cause of Scottish Independence than you wankers.
The responses I am getting from Bella Supporters are illuminating, did not realise their were so many tossers on the “Yes” side,
Fecking eejits.
The thing is, a gender-critical approach to law is precisely what a cognitive approach to law that is supportive of relational autonomy looks like. So it would appear that whoever is directing SNP policy is not supportive of Scotland’s identity. Or the principle of equality in law. Nor substantive politics.
Good Governance And Political Accountability
https://www.oxbridgenotes.co.uk/revision_notes/law-constitutional-law/samples/good-governance-and-political-accountability
It was all pretty meaningless but perhaps it may put us in a less hypocritical position when it comes to Scotland negotiating its deal with the EU whether that be in EFTA or full membership.
That’s certainly impressive stats, 856k a month, I wonder how many off them are Tories?
Must be something like one in a thousand deign to comment with the rest of us.
Having visited this site for the last 8 years it is gratifying to see my opinion on Pete Wishart go mainstream.
You now understand what a NO voter felt like in 2014 faced with the prospect of replacing one ruling class with another, equally distasteful.
Do you have a Scottish sub sample of that survey? Given the Remain voters from here is about 5.6% of the UK.
Had the SNP fought a case about our sovereign rights two years ago it would inevitably have ended up in the European Court in the Hague.
Now its only destination under Brexit is the Supreme Court in London. No wonder Boris insisted on this.
The strange thing is that, when pragmatism and REALpolitik have been the only sensible options, the SNPG has fallen at the first hurdle, but when sheer stupidity is on offer, they have often jumped at the chance. I must say that I have never understood the philosophy myself, but there you are. I was just thinking about that this evening: how many times now I have been in support of a Unionist who has shown sense. It was Johann Lamont recently.
Had a wee peek over at ginger dug and there was an interesting link over there:
https://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/HistoryofScotland/The-Auld-Alliance-France-Scotland/
Who knows, maybe another piece of mischief making on part of the French in the years to come is the threat to reinstate this dual citizenship which in turn would lead to full EU citizenship?
Tactics… from their point of view… and Propaganda – the purpose of.
It seems to me, with absolutely no qualifications to the name, it seems to me, the way propaganda works, is to hand people their prejudices on a plate and lift the burden from them of having to do their own homework.
The great big chunk of the Yes movement (mostly over on WGD) are going to go, ‘see, told you he was a unionist troll, in cahoots, how much more evidence do you need, even TRutheless is quoting him’.
And on the other side, all those who thought (me for one) his article was well reasoned, evidenced and he made a good point..
Are going to go, ‘see, told you the Unionist would use it as a big stick’.
WE ARE BEING PLAYED.
If we want Indy, and I know we do, we need to get smarter about tactics – THEIR TACTICS, AGAINST US.
Clear the decks, breath.
What ground needs covered, what levers do we have, and legal, democratic, routes to Indy are there.
If it is not being done by the party or people we elect. There is no more time for that.
There is no time for anger, or revenge, or I’m right/you’re wrong.
The only time left, is for what must be lawfully done in order to achieve. And in that, YOU are the experts.
Late January 2021 AS and NS give evidence re the Enquiry. Going to wait on that outcome, are we? They would love it if we wait.
Sometime in January (probably before the above) SNP Conference – NS going to survive is she?
Well if you are pinning it all on the AS thing – yes she will. Timing being everything.
But FRAME IT (thanks Alyn.. for the word ‘framing’) as what needs done, how to do it, and now.
And they lose control.
If the SNP now wrap up in SNP procedures for a VONC etc, etc, New Leader election, blah, blah, blah.
Then its over.
Go round them. It has to be a Plebiscite Holyrood Election, if only to keep some semblance of check on the bastards so they don’t completely asset strip in 5 years.
And when you get the wheels on that bus, start thinking for when they postpone Holyrood Election – cause they will. Plan folks, plan, and when you’ve finished planning, plan some more cause we’re going to need it.
Wondering if that is the very definition of irony. You write a piece on the danger of voting against the deal as it gives the opposition a stick to beat the snp with, only for your piece to be used for just that. In Holyrood. By the Baroness no less. 2020 is on glue.
If the FM isn’t bent, then she’s a total numpty and not someone who’s judgement should be trusted.
Recognition Important Issues in International Law
https://www.lawteacher.net/free-law-essays/international-law/recognition-important-issues-in-international-law.php
Lennie @ at 10:57 pm
in bed with Mooth Davidson
Fkin hell, that’s tonight’s nightmare sorted…
Didn’t we see all this nonsense resulting in the great exodus of the Nicola fans? They tried their best to say that anyone who did not agree that she walked on water was a Yoon or a plant.
I saw one demented comment that maybe Scotland should not be allowed to be independent as it would vote in a bunch of Tories, I think they had pronouns in their bio…
As far as I can see the only thing most Wingers have in common politically is a desire to see Scotland as an independent country. I leave it to every other site to categorize and pigeon hole their tiny audience into ever increasing subgroups if that is what makes them feel superior.
Why is the Tory Baroness update on how the SNP voted?
She is part of the body who introduced the Holyrood voting system
to try and ensure SNP don’t get majority parliaments.
The Party in power who lied about the Vow and who broke every aspect of it
knowing Scotland could do nothing about it.
She knows every Tory in Westminster walked out when SNP tried to debate Brexit.
Her party put the £350 million lie on the Brexit bus.
She knew Brexit was a disaster and that Boris hates
Scotland but nothing a title like Baroness can’t overlook.
Comfortable knowing that if every Scottish vote on Brexit was for Remain the Tories
Can still rip us out of Europe. She knows that if every GE vote in Scotland was for Labour
Scotland would still get a Tory government.
A ruthless bitch wallowing in the hopeless dispare of her nation while she reaps personal benefit.
Ach, splittism. I like Bella because it deals with the arts – with which I am – or rather, I was – involved. Nae gigs this year. I like this site too, but for different reasons. I’m fairly sure that both can exist without some sort of implosion happening.
@robertknight says:
30 December, 2020 at 10:19 pm
“Wulls…
They didn’t miss an open goal – they missed the flipping ball, hoofed their right boot over the bar then landed flat on their arse.”
To paraphrase from Pulp Fiction, they weren’t even playing the same fucking sport.
@SOG 10.51pm
Did she state the source of her comment somewhen?
Yes – play the video clip…
@ Daisy Walker
At the moment I am reading Tinker, Tailor, Solider spy. In that book, it had mentioned the Double-Cross system in the preface:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-Cross_System
From what I’ve read of the book so far, it is about as much as the characters acting on information that is known to be verifiable and that is judged to be verifiable depending on analysts.
I know it is a fictional spy novel but it does seem that we in the trenches, so to speak, are in the same boat where we are not in the position to have all the right information and have to depend on others.
According to the information we have, the SNP has everything wrong. If we are incorrect and they have something up their sleeve, like for instance an unwritten agreement with the EU that we will have a fast track entry then maybe they could give some hint at that to allay our fears?
@Dave Beveridge says:
30 December, 2020 at 11:28 pm
Lennie @ at 10:57 pm
“in bed with Mooth Davidson
Fkin hell, that’s tonight’s nightmare sorted…”
Joined by Anne Widdecombe…”Come and play with us Dave”
The Shining on steroids 🙂
Quick recap,,,
2014,,,vote to leave the UK, but lose
2016,,,vote to remain within the EU but lose.
2020,,,Out of EU with all it’s connections.
And the killer, in 2021 Westminster wants to centralise control of the whole of the UK, so Holyrood becomes even more surplus to requirements.
Nicola’s playing a blinder, unity breaking out all over Scotland as we speak.
Hey Stu, you’re famous, can I get your autograph?
PacMan says:
30 December, 2020 at 11:36 pm
@ Daisy Walker
At the moment I am reading Tinker, Tailor, Solider spy. In that book, it had mentioned the Double-Cross system in the preface:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-Cross_System
From what I’ve read of the book so far, it is about as much as the characters acting on information that is known to be verifiable and that is judged to be verifiable depending on analysts.
I know it is a fictional spy novel but it does seem that we in the trenches, so to speak, are in the same boat where we are not in the position to have all the right information and have to depend on others.
According to the information we have, the SNP has everything wrong. If we are incorrect and they have something up their sleeve, like for instance an unwritten agreement with the EU that we will have a fast track entry then maybe they could give some hint at that to allay our fears?’
No is the short answer.
The ground that needs covered is a democratic route by which we can vote for the option of Indy (which we need first before any sort of EU membership). IE Holyrood Plebiscite Indy Election.
The next ground that needs covered is is manifesto stating that, candidates standing for that ,and election material informing the voters of the consequence of Not doing that.
If those things are not happening, then they really are trying to sell you some old fiction.
One thing about Sturgeon, she certainly knows how to spin things out.
She’s spun out indyRef2 since 2014,,,and that was not fluke,,, check out what she is doing to the Salmond inquiry.
Stretch and spin, that’s her forte’.
“Did she state the source of her comment somewhen?”
Did you actually watch the video?
It’s up there with The Duck Uprising (see Dave)
Cameron. Fuck off
@ ‘Beaker says:
30 December, 2020 at 11:32 pm
@robertknight says:
30 December, 2020 at 10:19 pm
“Wulls…
They didn’t miss an open goal – they missed the flipping ball, hoofed their right boot over the bar then landed flat on their arse.”
To paraphrase from Pulp Fiction, they weren’t even playing the same fucking sport.’
WRONG!!! – its US that’s not playing the same fucking sport. And we need to wake up very quickly and get on with it.
From a perspective informed through cognitive philosophy, moral theory, the law and stuff, the current SNP simply appear to be out of their depth.
Moral Grammar and Human Rights: Some Reflections on Cognitive Science and Enlightenment Rationalism
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1924915
Daisy Walker says: 30 December, 2020 at 11:43 pm
I sincerely hope that is what the SNP is planning but at the moment the only impression I am getting is that they are going to pull a giant rabbit out of their sleeve at the last minute and quite frankly it’s too late for that.
I used to say this about “No Voters in the 2014 Referendum, so,,,
“What do we see that the Sturgeon fanatics don’t see?”
Nice of Iain Blackford to appear in the HoC so the Tories had someone to take the p*ss out of and laugh at – he’s become really good at that, so that’s some kind of win for the SNP today.
I can’t help it if I know how to support the rule-of-law and democracy, or that I might face outright fascism in my lifetime. Though the Tories have been heading in that direction since Thatcher, I didn’t actually see the SNP beating them to the finish-line.
Moral “foundations” as the product of motivated social cognition: Empathy and other psychological underpinnings of ideological divergence in “individualizing” and “binding” concerns
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0241144
QUESTION
In the House of Commons, is Iain Blackford the new Jeremy Corbyn?
Perhaps time to change our Westminster Leader…
Gregory Beekman says: 30 December, 2020 at 11:53 pm
I’m sure the court jester made as much money as they do nowadays.
All the SNP gov has up its sleeve are the documents they’re withholding from the Salmond Inquiry.
@ ‘PacMan says:
30 December, 2020 at 11:48 pm
Daisy Walker says: 30 December, 2020 at 11:43 pm
I sincerely hope that is what the SNP is planning but at the moment the only impression I am getting is that they are going to pull a giant rabbit out of their sleeve at the last minute and quite frankly it’s too late for that.’
Agreed, probably scribed by Kenny McAskill in view of the last article to ‘tease’ us. Dear SNP put up or Fuck Off is now the mood music ‘frame’.
But it does not work, if enough of us are not fooled, and no longer willing to give them ‘one last chance’.
The justification for which is always, ‘we want to hold it when we can win it’. Like no victor in any war of aggression on their country said – ever.
I bet Ruth popped into Terry’s to get a Stu tattoo on her chest ! Belter , apparently that was her only valid and understandable point in her speech.
“PacMan says:
30 December, 2020 at 11:21 pm
Had a wee peek over at ginger dug and there was an interesting link over there:
https://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/HistoryofScotland/The-Auld-Alliance-France-Scotland/
The original alliance that granted dual citizenship in both countries was eventually revoked by the French government in 1903.
Who knows, maybe another piece of mischief making on part of the French in the years to come is the threat to reinstate this dual citizenship which in turn would lead to full EU citizenship?”
Check this out; it never ended!
Talbott, Siobhan. “An alliance ended? Franco-Scottish commercial relations, 1560-1713” (PhD Dissertation, University of St Andrews, 2011)
In eerily similar vein, here is Stewart Macdonald MP saying that, seeing as Marine le Pen wants to take France out of NATO, anyone who wants to take an independent Scotland out of NATO is a fascist.
https://mobile.twitter.com/StewartMcDonald/status/1344065325919326209
Crivens, what an unlikely candidate for SNP’s leading cheerleader for British-American foreign policy!
LOL I bet Ruthie thinks Wings might be an ally now the SNP is fecked!:D
It’s where we’re at, where we were always heading,
..People are crazy and times are Strange,
I’m locked in tight, out of range,
I used to care, but things have changed..
Bob, the Man (2001)
-Daisy Walker-
Up to a point the “we must wait for a time when we are certain to win a referendum” argument is good.
BUT
There has been no better time for us to have won a referendum than the last few years. The British “brand” has been trashed. To young folk in particular it just looks like the most backward thing in the world. Cautious, conservative folk who voted No in 2014 are thinking that independence may be “the safe choice”. They have done NOTHING to make being British more attractive to the average Scot. And if we lose, so what? All that would happen is that Sturgeon would have to resign, albeit on a juicy pension and with a broad swathe of respect.
So the “we’re likely to lose” argument is just a fig-leaf.
@ Pac Man re Soldier Sailor Tinker Spy…
James Le Clare wrote some incredibly moving personal recollections of his father – a great big, life and sole, heart of the party Irishman – and a bone fide Con artiste. Who wrecked peoples lives, including family members. Totally bankrupted them, without conscience.
I have read some of his books, but not the above, but on viewing the film, what struck me, was the similarity to the documentary to the Burgess treachery.
The evidence was there, in full view, but no one could dare to believe it, because they loved the guy, he was one of them.
Which is why the Yes movement needs to rob them of this technique.
What is the ground that needs to be covered in order to have a democratic vote that delivers on Indy.
What campaigning needs to be happening to facilitate this. (And on this the Yes movement is head and shoulders above the SNP in ability – so they can’t decry them).
If it is not happening, if they are saying, trust us, plans, secret plans, close to chest, look at the polls…. then the one thing for sure is, its not happening. And the question other Yessers need to answer is how much rope do you give them, before enough is enough. Where are your lines in the sand, this far, and no further.
The promise of Devo Max to the reality of Devo Nowt in 6 years. I’d say that was enough. What a legacy.
A Person @12:06 am
“Never, ever” being on the same side as Marine Le Pen is going to cause problems for Stewart Macdonald. Marine, unlike her old man, opposes the death penalty. So Stewart will have to start campaigning for the re-introduction of hanging.
How do all these overgrown student politicians rise to prominence in the SNP?
@ A Person re ‘So the “we’re likely to lose” argument is just a fig-leaf.’
Yes – and one that is increasingly difficult for them to sustain with Polls showing support at 58%.
Tactics…
The Brits really need to do 2 things now. Make the SNP an unelectable mess, and increase immigration from England into Scotland to swing any vote (and maybe change the constituency boundaries).
The Yes movement is intent of converting other members (old and new) of Scotland to Yes.
The Brit Nat movement is intent on cheating at every stage, and in every single way. Any and every advantage, no matter how it is achieved.
Tactics.
I am really sorry to say this about other Independence supporters but enough is enough.
Those whobinhabit Bella, WGD are the people giving licence to the SNP to prevaricate, delay and seek mandate after mandate to get a referendum. Their blind faith blocks out any acceptance of evidence and in truth they themselves are becoming the road block used by the SNP to delay expectation of others who want Indy.
They defend the indefensible to keep the rest of us off the SNPs back. I can face the truth. They can’t.
She’s making you more infamous than you already were. I agree wholeheartedly with your post here. What many folk often fail to realise is that it is why people say things that is far more important than what they say. Like with the ungorgeous George not long ago he may have said similar things to us about the SNP but did it for far different motives. I don’t care for enemies who agree with me, or what they say, but I care very much for the honestly spoken criticism from genuine friends because that’s worth its weight in gold. Genuine friends who have clear sight and good judgement are the ones to listen to, good leaders surround themselves with such people but it seems our dear leader is more Mary Queen of Scots than Elizabeth I.
@ PacMan
‘The Scottish constitutional question has become a cottage industry for quite a few people in Scotland and framing your comment that would serve quite a few people financially for quite a long time.’
Yes, indeed. It seems to me that, despite Wings’ success with readers and crowdfunders, he’s one of the few who really hasn’t gotten much from being a vocal participant in that constitutional conversation. No cosy newspaper column to increase his income, no radio gig or book opportunity, or being lauded by the great and good. Most that comes his way are brickbats and insults so it’s good he has long term still loyal supporters too, as well as newer ones such as myself brought here after I saw his stand on the trans issue. No doubt this latest flare up will bring others to see what the fuss is and some will stay as we have.
I can’t believe how unbelievably shirt sighted and stupid the SNP have became. They occupy a different planet to those of us in the indy movement with sanity (ie the vast majority of us). Honestly we just need a new party, they are unreformable and so removed from our interests.
I’ve heard Kenny McCaskill say so many times on this site that the leadership need to take a new path, but it’s extremely obvious that no ones listening. His heart is in the right place but he will just keep coming out with a new monthly wings article like a broken record.
New party needed guys. The SNP are not the answer and won’t be again
I am always happy to be reminded of how badly Bella Fannydonia are getting on though
Well there has been a long discussion about who the SNP are for a few years. Now we know who the SNP are and it is unequivocal.
There used to be an apt quote about ‘not leaving Labour…’ etc. Cheerio SNP.
It’s a shame, because there used to be more good people there But I suppose we all get older and have mortgages and bills to pay and its a good sinecure, if you don’t rock the boat.
For local government, the SNP were adequate bar none. It’s about all they have left now and in a few months, we will know if they’ve thrown in the towel even at that level.
There are some eager new parties on the block and I’ll probably throw my hand behind them – then see them down the same road eventually, probably.
Ach well, it keeps a fire in the belly while you’re busy living your entire lifetime in a failed Nation.
All together now: “You can’t get me I’m part of the Union…”
Daisy Walker says:31 December, 2020 at 12:15 am
In the foreward Le Carré made an assertion equating Blake, being an outsider of the British establishment through his parents and his own, sort of like a father rebellion. Obviously Le Carré didn’t but he can see with Blake did.
Pure pop psychology but from what you mentioned, there could be a truth in it.
I’ve only recently watched the film and enjoyed the film but had watched the TV series years ago and Sir Alec Guinness performance has always stuck with me. I will need to watch it after I finish the book to see if the TV series hasn’t dated.
Oh dear.
Poor you Stuart.
It might be quite a long time since the Scottish taxpayer coughed up a lot of money, so that I could combine the cognitive sciences and stuff with the law. I might only have retained a fraction of my training, but I’m only trying to point folks towards a contemporary legal understanding of how social democracy works. I’m morally obliged to do so, just ask anyone trained in critical educational theory and ethical rationalism. Of course, I could just wheesht for indy.
Values in science. The role of cognitive and non-cognitive values in science
https://research.tilburguniversity.edu/en/publications/values-in-science-the-role-of-cognitive-and-non-cognitive-values-
James says: 31 December, 2020 at 12:04 am
I had learned some French at school, maybe I need a refresher?
Though they do say Wings of a feather flock together.
Polly says: 31 December, 2020 at 12:29 am
Stu’s placed himself in a position where he will be needed well beyond independence, unlike most if not all his peers.
At least we now know what Wings will be used for.
Rev: “far madder things than Ruth Davidson making sense for once are lurking just over the horizon”
Without going into specific details, are we talking toilet roll or popcorn?
I’ve never been too keen on colonialism, more especially now that the SNP provide another rotten layer of oppression.
I still hope this was a calculated strategy to get more Remainers on board.
We all know SNP votes mean nowt inside the House of Commons, so why not use them to attract Remainers to the indy cause?
It appears silly to us and the poll Stu has in his article shows it appears silly to most Remainers – but…
…in time, will it work its magic?
During the May 2021 Scottish GE, Sturgeon can say she voted against the ending of the transition period and the crap fisheries deal that Boris brought back, which might win her voters.
So looks silly now but might pay dividends later?
I mean, she’s not daft! There must be a good reason she chose this route, right? And the only one I can think of is that she must think it’ll play great come the election.
Anyone got thoughts on this?
You might not believe me but I’m not here to sell folks a dummy, or stroke my ego in public, or pander to irrational authoritarianism.
THE POLITICAL MIND
A Cognitive Scientist’s Guide
to Your Brain and
Its Politics
https://edisciplinas.usp.br/mod/resource/view.php?id=2807408
Gregory Beekman says: 31 December, 2020 at 1:04 am
Putting it crudely, Covid has put a dampener on holidays and night outs even though there is a jab around the corner. Unless Brexit has a detrimental effect on supermarket booze prices, social media access (home broadband or mobile phone tariff) and price of Netflix I doubt most people will care either way or the other.
If this happens then Brexit won’t have any effect on their lives so why they care that position the SNP takes?
-Daisy Walker-
Precisely.
-Kapelmeister-
The reason that particular overgrown student politician, and a few others of the same ilk, has been promoted within the SNP may have something to do with the number of “leadership courses” they have been on organised by “American overseas outreach foundations”. Intriguing when you consider their staunch defence of American foreign policy in Parliament, eh?
-PacMan-
“Cottage industry” is a good description. Stu could have got a column in the National where he regurgitated the same “wonderful things are just around the corner” narrative they tell themselves, or could have made a nice living doing voiceovers of his mate the first minister’s press conferences a la Janey Godley. But there’s a great Scots word- “thrawn”- to describe this site. He’s done more for independence than most SNP MPs and tame arts figures put together- and they know it and by God do they hate him for it!
I’ve just been discarding some back issues of The National, from the tail-end of my now-cancelled subscription, and on December 11 Joanna Cherry wrote:
That is remarkably similar what has been said here and quoted by the Baroness. The people objecting to that interpretation probably don’t like Joanna Cherry much either, of course.
(Her article may have been linked to here at the time.)
-Gregory Beekman-
I suppose the idea might be to show Scotland’s opposition to being dragged out of Europe against our will, but if so, staging a walkout, rather than voting with Redwood and Paterson for the nightmare scenario of a no deal, would have been more powerful, and a correct reflection of our decision.
In my opinion, it’s probably not something that most people will really notice, but even so it’s a bit cack-handed. Most people are relieved a deal has been done, even people who oppose Brexit, so to oppose it looks daft.
Maybe tomorrow midnight we should be singing La Marseillaise in defiance of us being pulled out of Europe rather than Auld Lang Syne in melodramatic sorrow?
Gregory Beekman
I’m afraid I can’t help you there, but I can’t see how playing gesture politics helps anyone. I’m not suggesting that the law will rescue Scotland, but it won’t help if we continue to encourage our politicians to place their politics above the law. Which is the sort of political practice that characterises British constitutionalism.
Strengthening Constitutional Identity Where There Is None: The Case of the Netherlands
https://www.cairn.info/revue-interdisciplinaire-d-etudes-juridiques-2016-2-page-235.htm
PacMan says:
30 December, 2020 at 11:36 pm
“According to the information we have, the SNP has everything wrong. If we are incorrect and they have something up their sleeve, like for instance an unwritten agreement with the EU that we will have a fast track entry then maybe they could give some hint at that to allay our fears?”
To quote my university Commercial Law teacher:
“Anyone who insists on a gentleman’s agreement is no gentleman”
An unwritten agreement isn’t worth the paper it isn’t written on. Even written agreements don’t hold when realpolitik intervenes.
OTOH since the UK has offended Europe through Bozo and Farage’s gratuitously offensive antics they’ll probably welcome an independent Scotland if only to snub London. That’s got nothing to do with Sturgeon though or any fictional unwritten agreement.
StuartM says:31 December, 2020 at 1:45 am
Once we hear the public announcement, particularly from Spain, after January 1st 2021 that an independent Scotland will be fast tracked back in the EU then we will rest easily in our beds knowing that the SNP have been right all along…
Whatever spin you want to put on it, and whatever your critics might say, I think it just shows the impact you are having Stuart and the innate truth of your arguments. The world is not black and white but infinite shades of grey!
A plug for Wings from Ruth must be a last throw of the dice for the brits surely.
@ Dakk is there something that you want to say to Stu , why not come out and say what you feel instead of posting wee snide comments , you have been doing it for ages and still you resort to hidden jibes , have the courage to express yourself he can only tell you to fuck off and ban you
“Once we hear the public announcement, particularly from Spain, after January 1st 2021 that an independent Scotland will be fast tracked back in the EU then we will rest easily in our beds knowing that the SNP have been right all along…”
Why would the the EU do that? They just spent years negotiating an agreement with Westminster that gives them access to Scottish fishing grounds and the ability to export into Scotland tariff free. They’ve just watched Scotland’s aquiesance to England’s withdrawal with nary a whimper. Why would they want to admit the vassal of a disruptive third party?
DeGaulle blocked the British from joining for years because he believed that they would act as a placeman for US influence in European affairs. Sturgeon was on about how Scotland could prosper as middleman between England and the rest of the EU.
How are we to know there isn’t a similar train of thought that says that Scotland will provide a backdoor to English manipulations and interference?
Scotland is on it’s own.
This isn’t the politics club at Glasgow uni. Realpolitik doesn’t do gesture projection nonsense like the leave a light on for Scotland, Scotland loves EU, etc.
The deal is a great one for The EU, Ireland especially. Why would they threaten it by pushing for an independent Scotland?
The last ever Only An Excuse is on tomorrow night for an hour special, with a few elder statesmen of Scottish football.
I think the show’s production team are giving up after 27 years because of unfair association with the SNP leadership.
I know, poor attempt at satire but it’s 3am… (and no I’m not pished)
@ pacman 1.11am and Daisy Walker , Nicla has played a blinder for the britnats in can kicking , she could have called a ref when brexshit happened , when article 50 passed , when she was banned from negotiations , when IMB was discussed and passed , when NI and Gib got EU passes , and at any time Scots were shat upon, but no, hold, hold I have a cunning plan
NOW brexshit has happened and the world hasn’t fallen apart what are the chances that ordinary people will just shrug their shoulders and make the best of a bad deal , as others have said people have families , homes and jobs to worry about they are not politically focused they just want the pub ,fitba ,and strictly
THE POLLS,THE POLLS what’s the betting now that brexshit has happened that the polls won’t take a dive , instead of having a 58% lead for indy what happens when it falls to the usual 45%, is Nicla happy to rule a minority Govt that would HAVE to focus on the economic recovery after Covid and she can still BLAME bozo for all our ills
Methinks her cunning plan is working ( to HER benefit and the britnats)
Good to see that even a diehard tory like Baroness Ruth agrees with the policy put forward by Dr Rideout of the SNP’s Policy Committee…
🙂
Most of what Scotland offers to the EU, was given to them by Westminster (fishing grounds, energy markets remain the same, non tariff exports) while The SNP focused on stitching up Salmond, trying to get cocks into women’s spaces, Drag queen story time, porn lessons for kids etc
Polly says @ 12.29am
I don’t care for enemies who agree with me, or what they say, but I care very much for the honestly spoken criticism from genuine friends because that’s worth its weight in gold.
I echo Polly’s sentiment, Stuart Campbell you have worked tirelessly and unrelentingly for Scottish Independence against untold odds , denigration and harsh insults from many on our own side, even ones who formerly supported you and your forensic journalism but couldn’t reconcile that explosive truthful journalism being used to expose the corruption endemic within their chosen political party
It must have an emotional impact knowing you will be subjected to unjust jibes and slurs merely for exposing the truth , but I would ask you to recognise that what you do by being honest, truthful and uncompromising is appreciated and respected by MOST of the people who visit and post BTL on YOUR site
I would rather have a journalist with honesty and integrity reporting the truth than a shower of pearl clutchers trying to win kudos from the establishment by whitewashing their turds
We are with you Stu , fuck the moaners
The best we can hope for now is regime change within the SNP. Well, that and a lot of sweet revenge. Indyref2 is dead in the water for at least 5 years.
As for Brexit, who cares about a 2% hit to GDP over 10 years now? Coronavirus has wiped away a lot more than that. Either way, Brexit is happening and the opportunity it gave us is gone, wasted.
Welcome to the new world. Don’t be fooled by the warmth and light given off by our burning ships, we are in a cold and dark place with no means of escape. (And yes, the scheming little peasant that brought us here is the same scheming little peasant that set the ships alight, for the record.)
Anyway, it’s the season of good will and I want to propose a toast…
“Let’s have a toast for the douche bags
Let’s have a toast for the assholes
Let’s have a toast for the scumbags
Every one of them that I know
Let’s have a toast for the jerk offs
That’ll never take work off
Baby, I got a plan
Run away fast as you can…”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bm5iA4Zupek
I officially love the SNP as much as I loved SLAB.
Just had a wee wander through the comments section over on the Ginger dug site and I see the usual suspects are taking Ruth quoting this site as well as can be expected. Talk about living rent free in some peoples heads. The next Wee Blue book is going to be the Tory party manifesto according to one deep thinker on twitter so the rev has gone from being on the payroll of the Kremlin to being the spin doctor for the Tories in a few short months. These people are beyond help.
re Davie Oga
“Scotland is on it’s own.”
Aye that is true. We were on our own in 2014 and nothing has changed. If anything it is now worse.
The SNP are now NEW ‘new’ Labour in Scotland. Driven by dogma, pursuing policies of their own ideology instead of what their voters want, ignoring and sneering at their own supporters, seemingly unable to capitalise on ANY political opportunity, with a leader surrounded by ineffectual nobodies and careerists, Standing aside, posturing, doing nothing, whilst Scotland is f***ed yet again by England and its murderous Tory creeps.
Such an absolute parcel of rogues, every last one of them.
It is as others have pointed out, enough to make you weep. I will never forgive Nicola Sturgeon, Smith, Wishart and all their pathetic ilk and ‘hingers oan’ for this. They have the votes, multiple mandates and the support, but prefer to do nothing.
Oh, and have a happy new year when it comes – if anybody actually gives a f*** anymore.
Again NS displays a complete lack of strategy. Can’t she see the effect of her tactics
To begin with the SNP strategy was to call for single market membership for Scotland. Scotland’s Place in Europe was a great document but of course the Tories ignored it but so did NS. She should have stuck to the demand instead She quickly moved on to EURef2 and stopping no deal.
She immediately conceded the SM argument which meant a ‘win’ was a much lower bar.
She could have offered a deal to May got preferential treatment for Scotland similar to NI even if she had to promise no indyref for 5 years as was suggested in Scotland’s Place in Europe. We’d be in a far stronger position now.
So instead of the argument being about Scotland remaining in the single market it became about how bad No deal would be and of course now there is a deal that argument is gone.
We need new leadership as soon as possible or a new indy party
Iain More says:
31 December, 2020 at 6:39 am
re Davie Oga
“Scotland is on it’s own.”
Aye that is true. We were on our own in 2014 and nothing has changed. If anything it is now worse.
Even supposing Scotland was no better or worse that it was in 2014, (and I fear we are much worse off), and furthermore, even if you are pro EU, pro EFTA, or even that obscure crossover on the Venn diagram which wants Indy and Brexit, the whole wall to wall spectrum of the Independence community must come together in mourning the craven failure to capitalise on Brexit and Scotland’s unconstitutional subjugation, and use these grossly diminishing circumstances to make our Sovereign Independence a material reality.
Scotland has just squandered the greatest opportunity ever afforded to any nation impoverished by colonial subjugation.
We have stood, wide eyed and open mouthed since 2016 before a gaping open goal, and we have done nothing, not one fkg thing, to put the ball in the net. Instead, we have been vilified and rebuked for daring to be impatient.
The failures, because that’s what they are, who have stood back in noisy indolence these past years are the midwives of Scotland’s subjugation, who insist that all of us should believe the fairytale which they’re a pedalling. Westminster isn’t buying it. Europe isn’t buying it. And people here on Wings aren’t buying it either.
So where now? I honestly don’t know. I do know that putting our faith in the 2021 Holyrood Elections being a plebiscite election is borderline close to delusional under this SNP administration. It isn’t going to happen. But I also know that nobody will shoot that goose because that dwindling hope is all we will have to sustain us through the approaching winter.
Will Sturgeon be brought down by the Inquiry? You would certainly hope so, but if and when she is dethroned, the legion of WGD types are going to be apoplectic and driven to such hysteria that whatever enlightenment replaces the Sturgeon cabal will suffer the same baptism of backbiting and cynicism as the recent progressive phenomenon of pro Indy List Parties targeting Unionist seats.
Right now I suspect I feel like a soldier in the trenches who knew our side had capitulated to defeat back in January last year, and yesterday’s vote was simply when the enemy finally got around to taking all our guns away.
I can only speak for my own vote. But this particular Independentist, who believes heart, body and soul in Scotland’s Constitutional Sovereignty and Independence, will NEVER vote for the SNP again.
The dream of Independence will never die. The fantasy pedalled by the SNP has all but evaporated.
I would like to think the current support for Independence is a new opportunity for Scotland to capitalise upon, but when the SNP is too blind and inept to weaponise the cold hard reality of our colonial subjugation and unconstitutional Brexit, my heart breaks at the prospect of the same useless and inept SNP squandering this ephemeral and temporary advantage too.
Their claims that this majority in the polls is a vindication of the lacklustre SNP ‘strategy’ is simply nauseating… but toxic and corrosive too when support for Indy is hijacked and interpreted vote of confidence in a decrepit SNP. If that perception takes root,… well, you do the arithmetic…
Am I despondent? Yes. I properly am. I’m with Rabbie Burns. Better “ My auld grey head had lien in clay, Wi’ Bruce and loyal Wallace”. than witness this gutless capitulation to our Brexit subjugation and cowardly abdication of sovereignty.
The SNP had it’s Day 1 more than 70 years ago. Maybe today is the day to plant the seed of a new Independence movement. One which is at least prepared to honour the constitutional sovereignty of our Nation.
NI got what it voted for because of the GFA. An internationally recognised and legitimate agreement that safeguarded them from WM skullduggery.
Scotland HAS a similar agreement, that has been ignored. Nowhere in the Act of Union does it say Scotland cannot leave. It’s recognised by the world, the EU and the UN. We have centuries of breaches by WM to refer to. We have the rest of the world watching us and willing us on. I don’t give a toss that it’s a 313 year old trade agreement. Westminster regarded it as a bill of sale and it’s up to us to prove that it’s not.
That Nicola decided to ditch it, and all other routes in favour of an S30 is tragic. The AoU is the key. It’s still there.
We are either IN a union…or we’re not. It can’t be both.
Scotland will stay in the EU
to
Scotland will stay in the single market
to
A pointless muddled vote, nearly a year after we had already left The EU, which they tried to pretend was voting to stay in the EU. Uni politics 101.
The rosettes have changed from red to yellow but monkeys are still the same.
We have allowed a career politician with no work experience outside of the political bubble to form a dictatorship in control of the country and SNP. Is it any wonder there is no strategy in place? She simply does not do thinking ‘outside the box’ as she’s never been ‘outside the box’ and has no grasp of a real reality. She is just rehearsed posturing and soundbites with zero substance. Totally out of her depth in a time when we really needed someone to lead with wit and experience, I know just the man.
O/T
Wishing wingers all the best for 2021. Here’s hoping that it turns out better than 2020 did. Happy New Year folks.
twathater says:
31 December, 2020 at 2:24 am
‘@ Dakk is there something that you want to say to Stu , why not come out and say what you feel instead of posting wee snide comments’
I think we know the answer to that, remember certain people like snipey, supposedly funny, one liners instead of detailed, constructive criticism when they oppose things written here. They don’t like being banned though.
Cometh the hour cometh the man, 2020 is Piers Morgan’s finest hour. Very honourable mention to co-host Susannah Reid as well but Piers continues it onto social media and all that entails.
Some of us, myself included cheered when we learned that Jeremay Clarkson thumped him at some do. I now think Clarkson is an arse and Morgan is a Mensch. A weird year to be sure.
If the realities of Covid and who is vulnerable and who isn’t by biology is not a demonstration of the fact that biology is real and it matters the what is?
Maybe the growing evidence that taking x-sex hormones are bad for you. Sophie XY a Transwoman who knows what sex she is has revealed her Dr suspects she has a pituitary tumour at least in part because it’s now a known risk for those males who take oestrogen long term Pituitary tumours are bad news. You cannot do without it. Oestrogen in males significantly raises the risk of stroke or other CV event. It screws up their immune systems as well since it expects two balancing X chromosomes (a lot of immune genes are on the X) but males only have one.
Reality has ways of smacking us in the face and reminding us that it’s there. I stupidly ran in worn street shoes on wet concrete pavers on the Edinburgh waterfront at Xmas. I went to go round the corner and my feet went out from under me, I went down like I’d been poleaxed and smacked face first from my 6′ height with my running momentum into a concrete paver. It hurt so bad it was literally blinding. The nerves from my face were screaming so loud the images from my optic nerves weren’t being processed.
All I did was break my nose, again and scrape my ankle. But reality intruded on my belief that i could run where and when I felt like it.
TruthForDummies
‘Again NS displays a complete lack of strategy. Can’t she see the effect of her tactics
To begin with the SNP strategy was to call for single market membership for Scotland. Scotland’s Place in Europe was a great document but of course the Tories ignored it but so did NS. She should have stuck to the demand instead She quickly moved on to EURef2 and stopping no deal.
She immediately conceded…’
Yes, she’s a bandwagon jumper in most things, which is why after supporting women, she then jumped on the trans bandwagon and dropped the ball on women’s support, then dropped the trans activists in a similar way when it became to hot to handle. Same with EU citizens and support for them. She picks these causes up then drops them and moves on. Whether that is by accident or design, it’s a rubbish way of working towards independence, or towards any goal – unless the goal is to piss off all segments of Scottish society. She’ll no doubt get round to pissing off her still loyal followers eventually by taking up, supporting, then dropping something they care deeply about – independence itself perhaps?
I’m still not convinced that after January, when Westminster take steps on Holyrood, that her argument then might not be ‘The only way to win independence since we’re outvoted in Westminster is to start standing candidates in England’ or ‘We have no influence in the House of Lords, we need to change that’. Given her serious strategy failures of the past I wouldn’t say I’m confident in her good sense in choosing causes to fight which bolster independence.
Breeks @ 8.09 . Thanks – once again – for articulating exactly my own thoughts n feelings about the sorry state we find ourselves in .The St Nicola of the Immaculate Deception School Choir on WGD and elsewhere can sing from the same worm-eaten hymn-sheet all they like – they are impervious to reason or even the blindingly obvious – as much as they like ,but we are going nowhere while these hopeless, toothless poseurs and amateurs are in control of our destiny , except maybe backwards , terminally cowed , whimpering like whipped dogs
There won’t be any indyref until 2029.By that time they’ll be fuck all left that’s not in the hands of the corporation’s.
Occasionally a monkey may sit at a typewriter and produce a meaningful word, meaningful to the observer that is, not the monkey.
Similarly with political opponents, although in Scotland’s case the opposition seems to possess fewer monkeys.
I am seeing an increasing number of very incisive well produced video ads on social media, very much in the style of Phantom Power, from the ISP. They are on message and effective, leaving the pathetic SNP output in the shade. They deserve wider exposure and I wish them well. Pity they are only going for the List.
Mught s at 0814am,
That is the point exactly, we are either in a union by agreed treaty or we are not. Westminster likes to use the union as it pleases, whilst ignoring the rrality of it being an actual treaty between two nations, Scotland and England, by respective acts of the Scottish and English parliaments.
Why the SNP leadership does not focus on this single reality is beyond me. If the treaty has the power to allow England to force us out of the EU, then that same treaty being an actual thing, means Scotland can choose to end it.
If England wants to end the treaty, it can. If Scotland wants to end the treaty, it can. It is that freaking simple.
To me this is as obvious as can be.
I did agree with the obvious point made that a vote in WM against the deal was a vote in favour of no deal and that abstaining would be a better way to go for the SNP. However with the deal being ratified as everyone knew it would, it now takes a different perspective. John Curtis seized on this, noting that in the forthcoming elections, after which (from tomorrow until May) we’ll all have suffered /experienced a bit of real Brexit, people in Scotland will judge Labour harshly for having helped to bring this on, whereas the SNP will benefit from having opposed it. As Joan McAlpine noted in Holyrood yesterday, her committee has considered all the evidence and found the Bill wanting and un-supportable, another bolster for that view. So who knows, Rev, maybe you and Ruthie will be on the wrong side of history on this one, and before too long
An EU source confirmed to The Independent that Brussels would limit or withdraw access to its electricity and gas, unless a new agreement was struck in 2026.
Furthermore, future deals would be subject to “annual negotiations” – increasing its leverage over attempts by London to break free of the deal on fish.
That agreement has been condemned by industry leaders as a “betrayal” of Mr Johnson’s promise to “take back control” of fisheries, with some warning they will be worse off.
Sorry Rev., but, on this one I have to disagree with you.
I feel the SNP, when it came to yesterday’s vote, were damned whatever way they jumped.
I felt, and still do, having been against Brexit from the start – the SNP had to, even when faced with a done deal, vote against it. It is a bad deal for Scotland, so, no point in either voting for it, or abstaining.
I refuse to accept – a vote against this deal is a vote for No Deal.
Had it come down to No Deal, and that no deal had come back to Parliament for endorsement, surely the SNP would again have voted against it.
Where I do condemn them, however, is for their inactivity on the Independence front since 2014. They ought to have ensured we were out of there and not involved in this massive exercise in national self-harm.
Strange times indeed. Ruth Davidson extolling Wings over Scotland,Christine Jardine (Libdem Edinburgh West) extolling Tories Brexit.
SNP imitating the death of Scottish Labour, Greens extolling science of climate change while denying science of biology.
Listening with agreement to Mike Russell extolling virtue of the Scottish European connection I am puzzled. All these SNP MP’s and we are no nearer independence and many of them are now so up themselves that they insult us and the intelligence of the peoples of Scotland.
I repeat, independence is normal but our route to achievement is more likely under the pressure of AUOB than the port and stilton SNP MP’s.
Might not compensate for the personal damage arising the last time an opposition leader used a privileged position to draw attention to your work but a nice touch of class to give it a prominent place in Holyrood’s future history – even if she lacked the authority to sustain the eulogy with a “principled” abstention when it mattered.. 🙂
Any clues as to what her pen name might be?
At 23 hours GMT Scotland will be dragged unwillingly out of the European Union, let the dragging be one of kicking and screaming, of banging and pandemonium and open revolt.
The light of our democracy must not be appropriated or extinguished.
May 2021 be the year of the Scottish ENOUGH!
Bliadhna mhath ùr dhuibh!
Guid Neu 3eir!
Nell G @8.27, NI is a lawyer and worked in Drumchapel Law Centre before she was a politician
Ottomanboi – again , agreed , though I never fear 23.00 GMT will be greeted with more ” a whimper than a bang ” , but , yes , let 2021 be the year of the fightback ,we . literally , have nothing left to lose
Ruthie’s pen name self-servative!
Pen name for Ruthie – self-servative!
Williamson claiming 1500 soldiers will carry out mass Covid testing at schools
to ensure their scheduled.return?
Jump in here if I’m missing something but if a child
Proves negative one day, the could test positive the
next day. So is ever school kid tested every day?
No, as they don’t have the capacity.
The tests are no where near 100% reliable and results are not the same day
so a positive child will continue to study and play with the others.
Now if the Tories have millions of vaccines and the capacity to administer up to
500,000 in a day then why are all NHS staff members already vaccinated?
Rather than wasting time, money and resources on continually testing kids
why not keep them off school for a month until they can be vaccinated.
Really sick to death of Westminster politicians lying and of their nonsense plans.
Baroness Bullshit is also in that group.
She wants to stop Scotland’s sovereignty, their parliament, their right to have a relationship with
the EU, just like N Ireland.
She was totally against Brexit, as were the vast majority of MP’s, but as the public swallowed their
Lorry load of Brexit lies the bankers got their way and money laundering and tax avoidance can continue at a horrific cost to the general public.
I class people like the Baroness the same as the Con men who force their way into pensioner’s
Homes pretending to be from the water board before robbing them blind.
If there is a God circumstance will find her just deserts in this life and no need to worry about taking a warm coat into the next life.
I’m sure the better weather will see her teaching her child to rip the wings off butterflies.
This is the time of year for review and reflection. After another inexplicable tactical voting decision fittingly concludes a year of missed opportunities. I believe the FM will resign soon and I have been trying to visualise how her legacy will be formed over the coming year. History will not judge her tenure well. A pathological dislike of the Toe-Rays kindled in her informative years has blunted her effectiveness as a leader. Politics is about the art of the possible and compromise is part of that approach. An example being the cooperative relationship between Alex Salmond and Annabel Goldie. The Independence movement will have a new vigorous life when the FM has gone, is my New Year prediction.
Was she right though?
As I understand it, even if the vote had gone against them, the UK Government could have ratified the trade deal anyway. So it’s surely not really correct to say that voting against the Bill was a vote for no deal.
The SNP don’t act like people who want to see their country freed from the shackles of a corrupt union, no passion, no energy, no commitment, no strategy…..no desire for independence. With a few exceptions they are only fit for running a council.
@Jomry
The videos are good aren’t they? One of the people producing them is a member of our branch, great guy.
There is no point standing in constituencies with the SNP polling over 50% deposits will be lost in May. Note there has been absolutely no bunfight over getting nominated on the List for the SNP everybody wants a constituency berth.
We are all about taking advantage of the fact that there are seats to be taken and unionists to be denined on the List for a genuine Yes party. We know the Greens are not that, add in their disgraceful treatment of Andy Wightman and that a whole lot of TRA’s and their cheerleaders have decamped from the SNP for the Greens.
If you really want Indy, you think sex matters and you want more Yessers and fewer unionists at Holyrood as well as not wasting an SNP List vote to elect nobody then the ISP makes sense. Mathematically it makes sense and you cannot argue with the maths. If just 20% of SNP voters lend us their List vote we could get a supermajority for Yes which is internationally recognised meaning we can declare and be recognised.
@ Jomry
‘I am seeing an increasing number of very incisive well produced video ads on social media, very much in the style of Phantom Power, from the ISP. They are on message and effective, leaving the pathetic SNP output in the shade’
I entirely agree. I first took notice of the one after the NEC vote, it was on point and witty, poking fun at, but not alienating to, independence folk who support SNP. Whoever is behind them has the right ideas and do leave SNP in the shade.
@ Muscleguy
Let him know from me, and no doubt many others, those ads are great. They strike just the right balance. I’m guessing they’re done on a shoestring budget, but they don’t look it at all.
Michael @9.36
I’m aware she worked as a solicitor until her late 20’s before entering into full time politics. The point was that I consider that to be insufficient life experience for taking on the role of FM albeit way down the line.
To be fair Ruth Davidson did only have that one moment of sanity, when she quoted Wings. The next clip I saw of her, she was shouting “Arbroath Smokies” at the FM, and looked like the colour of one.
Socrates MacSporran says:
31 December, 2020 at 9:23 am
Sorry Rev., but, on this one I have to disagree with you…
…I refuse to accept – a vote against this deal is a vote for No Deal.
I just see it differently.
Scotland has just suffered the slap in the face of Brexit, and is then asked whether it approves of that slap in the face, or whether it disapproves.
The issue is not whether you approve, disapprove, or abstain about being slapped in the face. The point of principle is it’s an assault upon you. The point of principle is not how you react to being assaulted.
The point is sitting there in craven submission, forgiving all previous slaps while waiting for the next slap to the face, rather than standing on your own two feet and putting an end to the face slapping once and for all.
By taking part in the vote, even confirming you disapprove, you are effectively playing an integral part of the same and on-going domination / submission process.
You don’t submit to subjugation, because that submission itself, is yet another subjugation.
You CANNOT compromise with your subjugation. The absolutely correct and appropriate option yesterday was for the SNP to remove themselves from Westminster permanently. You have sapped us in the face for the last time. No more.
@ Michael
She worked for Drumchapel Law Centre for 2 years, and as a solicitor for a law firm for 2 years before that. A lot of years spent studying a subject she obviously didn’t enjoy that much to ditch it 4 years after fully qualifying. She first stood for election in 1992 (the year she left uni) so she already had hopes of being a politician. Seems the profession was just a stop gap.
“Did she state the source of her comment somewhen?”
Did you actually watch the video?
Thanks, I did watch it, listening for such. I have a problem with her rapid speech and accent*, and I really didn’t want to play it again. Which I have done.
*The only previous time I had trouble with a Scots accent was with Aberdeen dockers.
Check out your TV News Channels this morning any of them
Anyone find anything relevant to Scots and Scotland . Eh the weather doesn’t count by the way
The English establishment has erased us from all reference and any inclusion in their extended country it wouldn’t surprise me if the name Scots and Scotland disappeared for ever , would the English people notice ?
Time to search for a Spine SNP management you have a majority of support your move !
Baroness Mooth’s pen name.
Her Nibs.
Will the last person to leave the Scottish Parliament in 2020 please turn off the gaslight and let some fresh air in.
@Muscleguy
You know that I support voting for the ISP on the list. I’ve even called for them to stand selectively in certain constituency seats as there are a number of SNP seat warmers whose political epitaphs I would gladly read. However, a super majority of seats is at Holyrood is NOT going to be accepted by the international community as grounds for independence unless and until the pro-indy parties specifically make the elections plebiscitary.
Given the timescales it looks like we’ve already lost that opportunity. The only prospects for independence in the short/medium term after May 2021 are therefore
1) making the next elections after May 2021 – whether Westminster or Holyrood – plebiscitary;
2) the British nationalists being overcome by an attack of reasonableness and granting a S30 order for #indyref2; or
3) some other political earthquake leading to the overturning of an 80 seat Tory majority in Westminster.
We may as well settle in to a minimum of 5 years, and more likely 10, to make any substantive progress. Enough time perhaps to construct a solid alternative to the SNP that actually has the fire in its belly for proper independence, not perpetual devolution?
No mountain of Tory lies and false promises will deliver
a Holyrood majority for them in May!
The next election will be 4 years down the line.
At that point it will be a full 70 years, 3 generations
since Scottish voters gave the Tories a majority.
Comforting to see the Baroness understand some simple things
by why can’t she see that her party is not wanted here and never will be.
Any Tory here who voted in their 1955 majority will be at least 83 years old.
Tory incompetence in managing Covid will have killed off many of their supporters from
That post War era. They must be turning in their graves at the distain they have for Scotland,
the hostility the lies and corruption.
Breeks
I fear, for once, we must agree to differ.
I can see your reasoning for a complete withdrawal from Westminster by the SNP. However, I fear the time for that sort of gesture is long past. It would make no difference.
Even at this late date, I feel the SNP has to hang in there, but, become far-more effective an opposition than ever before.
Organise a proper guerrilla war inside the Chamber. Repeated points of order, when a Tory tells a lie about Scotland – say: “That’s a lie, then demonstrates it as such.” Disrupt proceedings, demand the Scottish Grand Committee has a say on the impact of EVEL legislation.
Refuse to sit on “Scottish” affairs committee on which there is a majority of English Tory MPs.
Make life unbearable for them. If the Tories will not react, surely the ostensibly Labour Speaker will.
They will crack first and look for an easy life, even if it means giving-in to a Section 30.
With 48 MPs, if such a campaign of civil disobedience within Parliament was properly organised, it could work.
But, walking away now will only play into the Tories hands.
Terry 11.08
“ What are the barriers to indy? The BBC, the media and sadly Nic, Pete and the gang”
As I have stated previously, the major barriers to Indy are the complete lack of argument to counter the Project Fear 2 onslaught that will inevitably come.
Socrates @10:44 am
The purpose of Scottish MPs to cease sitting in the Commons is the emboldening effect it would have on the Scottish people. A dramatic and unambiguous kick start to the push for indy after the criminal inactivity of the Sturgeon years. Let’s get using that 58% before it dissipates!
You say walking away would play into the hands of the Tories. Surely we can now do nothing more that plays into the hands of the Tories that hasn’t already been done by Sturgeon and Swinney et al. We’ll be on the main road to independence when we stop caring what Tories and other unionists think and say about us.
‘They’ all read Wings:
https://www.vuelio.com/uk/social-media-index/top-10-uk-political-blogs/
Socrates. I understand your logic but 48 Scottish MPs can change nothing.
Yes they can tantrum, throw points of order, demand this and demand that, but at 5he end of the day they can still not deliver anything. And the example of them not stopping Brexit couldn’t be a clearer example of that.
Sinn Fein of course understood the absolute futility of participating in a majority unionist parliament. Unfortunately we haven’t – and it must be profoundly depressing for some of the decent SNP MPs to be part of a lost legion of plastic politicians. For others, and I think of the ignorant arrogant lush that is Peter Wishart as an example, taking the money, and maybe getting the Speakers job in a Parliament he supposedly wants to break from, tells you the rest.
Time, like Sinn Fein, they did the honourable thing and withdraw, and set up their own chamber up here looking, reviewing and assessing things.
Ian Blackford said Boris’ deal has betrayed Scottish fishing communities.
I’d be most interested to hear from the SNP how they intend Scotland will ‘take back control of our fisheries’ in the context of also achieving EU membership.
Do they not understand what EU membership actually entails?
Congratulations to them if they can pull that one off!
My last post for this year gives thanks to another type of hero.
Those who stand for truth and justice against the immorality and
corruption that festers in Westminster.
Rev you are a man to be revered without doubt.
Others like Craig and Martin stand firm and proud
against the full night of the U.K.’s political mafia at
incredible risk to themselves.
Their names will forever be in Scotland’s history.
Victor Hugo’s Les Miserables still thrives 100 years later
as it highlights the cruel injustice of the State against the people.
Let the words below be with you as we march toward independence in a
Happier New Year.
Do you hear the people sing?
Singing a song of angry men?
It is the music of a people
Who will not be slaves again
When the beating of your heart
Echoes the beating of the drums
There is a life about to start
When tomorrow comes
Will you join in our crusade?
Who will be strong and stand with me?
Beyond the barricade
Is there a world you long to see?
Then join in the fight
That will give you the right to be free
Do you hear the people sing?
Singing a song of angry men?
It is the music of a people
Who will not be slaves again
When the beating of your heart
Echoes the beating of the drums
There is a life about to start
When tomorrow comes
Will you give all you can give
So that our banner may advance
Some will fall and some will live
Will you stand up and take your chance?
The blood of the martyrs
Will water the meadows of France
Do you hear the people sing?
Singing a song of angry men?
It is the music of a people
Who will not be slaves again
When the beating of your heart
Echoes the beating of the drums
There is a life about to start
When tomorrow comes
Their weakness is energy. When they traded away Scotland’s fishing grounds it was in order to secure access to the common EU energy market.
The North / South electricity could be used as a bargaining chip. i.e. Fast legislation with impossible to meet health and safety standards. ” Interconnector Safety Bill 2021″
If they continue to block our right to self determination. Shut off their electric.
Kapelmeister, Willie
Maybe there is nothing the SNP MPs could do inside Westminster, but, they have to do something they singularly have not done in recent years – try to upset the bastards.
The English had to take Sinn Fein seriously, because they (SF) had the IRA at their backs. We in the fight for Scottish Independence have (thankfully) not gone down that road. They could and almost-certainly woukld, if the SNP withdrew from Westminster, treat Scotland even worse than now.
We have to take the fight to them, in their own backyard. We will be out-numbered, we will face a perhaps even worse media storm, but, after the second or third Tory Chief Whip or Leader of the House cracks under the SNP pressure – they will let us go, and thankfully.
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/survey-results/daily/2020/12/30/2ac0b/1
To sort of answer my own question.
The figures for Scotland are,
47% accept, 17% reject, 36% don’t know.
That latter figure probably an honest reflection on not knowing the content of the deal.
Scotland at near twice the national average.
So abstain may well have been the best option.
God help us if there’s ever a UK wide poll showing independence only supported by 10% of the population and Wings decides to throw in the towel even if the results for Scotland were well over 50%.
Continuing what I had said last night about after Brexit.
Of course things are going to change tomorrow with the UK’s relationship with Europe but even when the UK become a third country tomorrow, it is still a large market for Europe right on it’s doorstep.
Unless Westminster does things absolutely stupidly in the coming years, that relationship with continue and the EU will not do anything to jeopardise that, including interfering with domestic political matters like the Scottish constitutional question.
Of course, individuals in the EU will have sympathy towards the indy movement but they won’t riding to our rescue and frankly, why would they if there was the political will?
It has been evidently clear that the SNP are a busted flush who has bottled it on so many occasions.
Who knows? I could be wrong.
Westminster could act absolutely stupid and the indy movement is weaponised by the EU to hit back at the Westminster along for instance with playing about with the electricity supply from France as a way to keep a competitor in it’s place.
Even more crazily, as per other comments last night, France might grant us Scots dual nationality and reassert the Auld Alliance trading rights allowing us back in Europe.
The likelihood of this happening is very low and it is delusional to think that somehow the SNP have something up their sleeves to deliver us Independence in Europe anything soon.
Socrates
If the Tories treated Scotland worse than they are now then that would only make Yes even higher in the polls.
You say take the fight to their own backyard. They’ll just soak that up forever and a day. The fight is in Scotland, not by the Thames.
Breeks @ 10.24
You are right, and us Scots have been constantly subjected to the colonial slap in the face since the union and before. We are kept out of the meeting room when the big decisions are being made, on our behalf. That is the reality of a subordinate people and culture ruled over by another people and culture and the language they tell us we hiv tae spik if we desire to improve our lot.
Brexit clearly demonstrates Scotland’s colonial reality!
The UN describes colonialism as ‘a scourge’ for good reason. It is a form of punishment, a slap in the face dished out every day, hour and minute upon a whole people through systemic oppressions which become institutionalised, and an every day norm of any colonial society.
We are never told about our ongoing colonial oppression and its multiple adverse impacts, including on health and inequality. Instead Scots are fed two falsehoods: on the union side a glorious British union/imperial narrative, and on the SNP side the promise of a future consisting of, well, ‘competent’ governance and (a misunderstood) ‘civic nationalism’ all under the warm blanket of our political elite’s view of what passes for ‘social justice’ (i.e. social controls however defined by Nicola, Humza et al). Neither of these offers are anywhere near what most Scots desiring independence have in mind.
Meanwhile, in the real world, decolonisation remains the true rationale for the independence of any ‘people’, though it is unlikely we will ever see that stated in any bourgeoisie SNP manifesto, which tends to pander more to the colonizer. Scots really do need to better understand the primary reason why a people, any people, desire independence, otherwise we will either never achieve it, or the form of independence we do end up with will simply be semi-colonialism, much like devolution.
In summary, true liberation and independence requires “..not only the disappearance of colonialism but also the disappearance of the colonized man” (Fanon 1967).
Alf Baird @11:36 am
Agree with every word Alf. What has hitherto been preventing Scotland’s freedom is in Scots’ heads. The colonised mindset. It’s why Yes lost in 2014.
kapelmeister
I agree with your point at 11.42am. Our colonised mind-set is holding us back. We still have too-many big fearties in our midst, unhappy with English rule, but terrified to take the next step and rule ourselves.
That said, I disagree with your response to me at 11.29am.
Let me be clear: I am NOT advocating we follow the Sinn Fein/IRA tactics perish the thought. But, for as long as the IRA, genuine and provisional, was only blowing things up and killing people in Northern Ireland, The English were none too bothered.
However, once the Provisionals started planting bombs in England, and killing English men and women – they sat up, paid attention and, eventually, got talking. To the stage, Sinn Fein entered government, and are now well on their way to their dream of a reunited Ireland.
We Scottish Nationalists must never try to bomb England to the negotiating table, but, with the people firmly behind the SNP, as they now seem to be, a real push within Parliament, a genuine and consistent effort to make life awkward for the Tories, could well pay off.
They will let us go, simply to have peace to work their nefarious plans on England.
If we withdraw back to Scotland, they will simply bear down harder on us, while ignoring our protests.
We are no longer Europeans from 11pm tonight, we will become part of The Great Brutish Empire II,
and it is all on you, `No` voters.
Alf Baird 11:36 pm
Great Post.
This is getting on for September 19th 2014 levels of humiliation, and the fact that the SNP are too cowardly to do something – anything – about it just adds to the depression.
I’ve no idea where we go from here. No doubt the cultists who sook up the Nicool-ade still fervently believe there’s a plan. 🙁 There isn’t other than to keep the cabal at the trough.
A bit o/t
Can I make a wee suggestion if anyone feels the need to make a comment around midnight
Try and keep it Civil because the site might be shut down because of the Language I for one am keeping well away from any keyboard that might get me in trouble from the thought police
End this sinisterly repressive year with a long read on ‘warp speed’ vaccines, drug pushing corporations, compliant government and the brave new future.
https://www.corbettreport.com/futurevaccines/
The SG with talk of stricter suppression measures to keep us all ‘safe’ is ticking all the pro Big Pharma boxes.
“the fact is that liberty, in any true sense, is a concept that lies quite beyond the reach of the inferior man’s mind. And no wonder, for genuine liberty demands of its votaries a quality he lacks completely, and that is courage. The man who loves it must be willing to fight for it; blood, said Jefferson, is its natural manure. Liberty means self-reliance, it means resolution, it means the capacity for doing without . . . the average man doesn’t want to be free. He wants to be safe.”
[H. L. Mencken]
Socrates MacSporran says:
‘If we withdraw back to Scotland, they will simply bear down harder on us, while ignoring our protests.’
I agree with your premise here. Westminster did ignore the bombing in Ireland until IRA took the campaign to England – and that taking the fight to the enemy – whether as they did or as you suggest the peaceful, but disruptive, SNP should do now is the right course. It is especially the right course since most of what goes on in Scotland is on news blackout anyway, unless it’s bad or until it affects England as the prorogation case did. Therefore any and all public shows of disruption or challenge to keep Scotland to the front of the news will be a good thing in itself, but it will also galvanise further support here too and initiate further feelings of defiance against Westminster and brexit.
Where I take issue with your reasoning is in the fact you think the current SNP are anything like capable of doing that job at all, far less doing it well. Even firebrands with independent minds and no great love for the leadership softly softly course like MacAskill and Cherry aren’t utilising all their skills and are holding fire for whatever reason. Salmond also hasn’t come to the fore yet, though no doubt he’s waiting on his stint at the inquiry and beyond for the right time. With time running so short we’ll not only see the whites of their eyes but will be touching eyeballs before any starting pistol is fired. No wonder folk bridle at listening to MacAskill talk of ‘now is the time for action’ when he then voted with the party whip on a vote and hasn’t taken any action to differentiate himself from them other than a lot of talk. We can’t even have decent rebels anymore.
I will set a challenge for everyone for the New Year.
Name me ONE country that has failed since gaining Independence from the UK.
People like Sensibledave tell me Independence wouldn’t work because reasons,,,. So tell me one country that completely failed post Indy.
Had another wee look at Ruthless’s speech. Anyone else think she was emphasising her ‘natural’ accent.
The Peoples’ Baroness.
Best wishes to all for tonight. See you in the new year.
One last thought re our rebels.
Really, really difficult to ask folk to become highly competent in one field (such as professional politics/government) and then ask them to wear a different rebel hat at the same time.
Not many people can straddle that one Where Alex was brilliant was he never tried to do that, but he gave the Yes Movement its lead and its head, along with his encouragement.
Aw weil, we are where we are, and I don’t doubt any of us would want tae start fae here if we had a choice.
Just to wish Rev Stuart Campbell and all on here A Happy New Year and wishing all a better 2021 than the year we’ve been through .
.” Lang May Your Lum Reek “
.
And also to send very best wishes to Alex Salmond for a Happy Birthday today . Love from Scotland x
@kapelmeister 11.42
What has hitherto been preventing Scotland’s freedom is in Scots’ heads. The colonised mindset. It’s why Yes lost in 2014.
Agree that the colonised mindset is a powerful restraint but could there be other reasons why YES lost in 2014? Exit polls are the key to determine if an election is honest and a check on the official count to ensure that the count is legitimate. There were no exit polls for the 2014 referendum.
@Alf Baird 11.36 am
We also have a government in Holyrood and MPs in Westminster who play along with that mindset.
We cannot complain or draw attention to our situation because we get scraps thrown at us to allow the UK to demonstrate largesse with our wealth and resources. We cannot talk of our history because everyone else’s story is always worse than ours and our ancestors made money out of their associations with the Empire.
When communities were being broken up in Glasgow in the 1950s and 60s, the promise was an indoor bathroom and a different room to sleep in and live in. But the communities and lifelines for women, especially, were fragmented and housing schemes on the periphery were soulless places with few shops or even a pub. Support was lost and drugs and alcohol were often used to self medicate the anxiety and depression that resulted.
https://archive.is/El1Yp
There are numerous studies of the effects on families and the offspring. Some of the drug epidemic now is a part of that. Whatever the result the aims of those in power were not always altruistic. The breaking up of politically powerful communities in Glasgow was one result.
Maybe we would be independent now if we had not been neutered by poverty, separation and isolation?
Polly
You make some fair points in your response to my last post.
But, has that not always been the trouble with Scotland – right from the days when even Bruce abandoned Wallace, feeling the time was not right; via the lukewarm welcome Bonnie Prince Charlie got in some quarters, right through to today.
We have rarely, if ever, stood together, and, it has always been too-easy for England to divide and conquer, as they did to force through the Treaty of Union.
Some day, and I hope it is soon, we will unite as one nation and be unstoppable. But, Ah hae ma doots if it will be any time soon.
As Hatuey noted @ 1:01 am
Your last line, Rev – “We fear that far madder things than Ruth Davidson making sense for once are lurking just over the horizon.”
You’ve just given me the heebie jeebies, Stuart. Surely there’s not much that can top what’s been going on during this and the past few years?
‘Really, really difficult to ask folk to become highly competent in one field (such as professional politics/government) and then ask them to wear a different rebel hat at the same time.
Not many people can straddle that one’
I disagree Daisy. Perhaps I disagree even about Salmond, who seemed to me even when FM to carry the air of a good Jacobite rebel about with him always, he was always the insurgent at Westminster after all, but I certainly disagree about rebels in general. Dennis Canavan or Robin Cook with Labour are two to mention who not only talked against the prevailing orthodoxy of their party, but they acted while showing themselves to be responsible and honourable men. Why can’t ours now do likewise?
The news that Westminster and The Scottish Office are maintaining control over the modernisation of the fishing fleets and their infrastructure like processing etc proves we were right to be concerned.
This is of course the bribe to the fleet owners for accepting quotas to the EU.
The Scottish government have been sidelined in this ,the first of many areas I would suggest .
Fight? Not bloody likely.
Mike Small. Never a more apt name.
The point about withdrawing our MP’s from Westminster is neither gesture politics trying to score points, and nor is it denying Scotland representation while Westminster runs amok.
In essence, it is to cripple the UK mandate to govern the UK which requires the consensual agreement of both signatories to the Treaty of Union. With Scotland’s representation withdrawn, the Westminster Government has neither a mandate nor sovereignty to govern Scotland, nor bargain away Scotland’s resources. It cannot sign Treaties or Trade Deals for a UK which has become a 2K.
The second aspect of withdrawing our MP’s home from Westminster is that it moves the “Front Line” of the Independence battle away from Westminster and the hegemony of domestic UK Law, and moves it to the International Forum of the UN, where the unconstitutional improprieties of UK Government are measured against International Laws respecting concepts of National Sovereignty, rather than Domestic Laws and myriad of unwritten conventions and improvisations serving the interests of Westminster Government.
The very first thing the Scottish MP’s withdrawing from Westminster should do is immediately dispute the UK’s Convention on UK Parliamentary Sovereignty once Scotland has withdrawn it’s consent. That, I promise you will throw a much bigger spanner in the works at Westminster than some Mickey Mouse withholding of legislative consent from a Holyrood Assembly grovelling about on it’s knees.
It would seem Holyrood has conceded that it is subservient to the domestic legislation handed down to it from Westminster, and unless or until that changes, we are wasting our time waiting for Holyrood to make it’s presence felt on the International stage. Westminster needs only to dispute Holyrood’s “Parish Council” sovereignty, and they’ll have done to us what we should have long ago done to them.
What that means, is another consequence of removing our MP’s from Westminster.. For constitutional clarity and distinction, I would hope, and indeed it would be vital, that they reconvene a true Scottish Parliament or Constitutional Convention that is altogether separate and distinct from the “dubious” and ambiguous constitutional status of Holyrood. Scotland cannot fight it’s Constitutional battles with one hand tied behind it’s back and still taking instructions from Westminster.
Sturgeon’s unfathomable abdication of Scotland’s Constitutional Sovereignty might have inadvertently done us a favour, by allowing us to pigeonhole Holyrood as a lower mechanism of UK Government, which a Constitutional Scottish Government swearing fealty to the sovereignty of the Scottish people could simply circumvent altogether. There is nothing to say, or even infer, that the First Minister’s position in a devolved UK Assembly would carry any status whatsoever in a reconvened “sovereign” Scottish Parliament.
How delicious would it be for Scotland’s new “Sovereign” Parliament to offer the First Minister of Holyrood a token ‘honorary’ seat in the gallery, with no constitutional status whatsoever? Then Scotland, rather than Westminster could instruct Nicola to sit down and shut up, and she’d probably be quite happy.
(I know you could split hairs calling it a ‘sovereign’ Parliament when it’s the people who are sovereign, but the essential point is, it is a Scottish Parliament which embodies the will of the sovereign people, and does a Westminster power grab in reverse, removing sovereignty over Scotland from Westminster’s control.)
Would this be a “coup”? Hmmm, no, I don’t think so. Not if the new Sovereign Scottish Parliament is set up by elected representatives, who sit in emergency session only to safeguard Scotland’s legal Constitution under International Law. In fact, far from being a coup, it’s probably the most apt and adroit action a Nation facing imminent subjugation could take.
I don’t want the language to be inflammatory, so forgive me, but the Vichy Government of France was dissolved in 1944 with Liberation, and replaced by a “Provisional Consultative Assembly” then sought recognition as a Constitutional entity / provisional French Government. Scotland could properly follow such a precedent and simply bypass Holyrood altogether.
So not a coup, but it could be Treaty of Union buster by default, since a Parliament sitting which isn’t Westminster, is a breach of the Treaty itself. Fine by me.
@ Socrates MacSporran
‘But, has that not always been the trouble with Scotland – right from the days when even Bruce abandoned Wallace, feeling the time was not right’
I’d forgive a lot if the present SNP could pull off a Bruce triumph in the end. My heart may lie with Wallace but I’d ranther not bleed with him and I’d rather chose to have the Comyn backstabbing Bruce to win it for us. Unfortunately I rather think the Sturgeon chicanery in backstabbing Salmond was less akin to that precedent than it was to hobbling the whole independence movement with the blowback from it.
Bruce in action supported your claim of taking the fight to the English, even after Bannockburn he fought there, and, internationally, he fought on the diplomatic front, no tool disowned. There’s our precedent, even after a great victory, hammer home the point until they’re forced to accept it.
@ SilverDarling says:
31 December, 2020 at 1:03 pm
Very well stated.
The People of Scotland – Part 3
‘The People of Scotland’
They shout from Holyrood and from Skye
Want horourable members
To listen and take heed
We do seek independence
But we will not plead
Our 300 years of marriage
Has gone on much too long
We still want to remain friends
But all the love has gone
We also want Brexit undone
It’s in the interests of everyone
We will re-join the neo-liberal brigade
Of the unelected and vastly overpaid
And then there will be no reason
For us at Westminster to be here
We will transfer power to EU
And do so without any fear
We know it is a priority
For Scotsmen everywhere
To join half a billion entities
In Deutsche Bankers care
The Bundestag will be in charge
They will run the show
Ably supported by their partners
From Paris and Bordeaux
After all, they’ve been doing great things
For forty years and more
Just look at how the wealth
Of the super-rich has soared
Oh Lord! Woe is me!
This way will never set us free
To take our hand
And dupe our mind
With an oxymoron
Of the cruellest kind
When after centuries in chains
The dragon is slain
To then capitulate
To a foreign domain
Without a fight
They might as well
Perform the last rite
And as the new kids on the block
Take us for a ride
As all sense of direction
Is lost or cast aside
Then our Raison d’etre becomes blurred
And goes astray
With overplay
And excessive demands
And as night follows day
The dream will fade away
As they masquerade
With needless tirades
But don’t dream of change
It’s not in the plan
The blueprint’s been developing
Since globalisation began
They’ve infiltrated all levels
With clandestine devils
Now there’s a plethora
Of hegemonies fixed in place
A masterpiece of planning
That you cannot retrace
And as they take away
Your freedom of speech
Don’t break the rules
Or they will impeach
You cannot criticise
Or say what you think
They’re listening and watching
Because there’s always a link
Echoes of ‘Brave New World’
And Big Brother ‘1984’
Huxley or Orwell
A reality you cannot ignore
And as they foolishly dismantle
Our acclaimed education
We see the attempted creation
Of a New-Age style
Indoctrinated nation
Obscurantism will be practiced
Like a sermon from John the Baptist
Dogmas will be recited
Repeated and retweeted
And when truth and propaganda
Are headed for collision
Truth is the one
Taking the road to Perdition
Yes, sadly we are ruled
By marionettes who scorn the truth
Enrolled and indoctrinated
From the time of their youth
They who join political parties
As soon as they leave school
Some perfect candidates
To be the Lord of Misrule
And whose total worldly experience
Is gained from a mobile screen
As they gleefully parrot soundbites
Sent by a research team
And believe that loyalty is to close their eyes
To those who drink and party and assume
That position makes it acceptable
To covertly groom
While naive members from the farm
Do not see risk or harm
Ensuring schoolkids get their share
Shrewdly introduced to the unaware
By Flow or Blow, it’s all in the name
An enriching Job, claim the insane
Well, damn this cesspit of political mire
From where no one can inspire
Yes, politics is a dirty game
That igrnores Scotland’s shame
Of the abused, and poor, and sick and lame
And mentally ill, and drugs, and those in care
And if you ask, it’s always the same
Like PFI, there’s to one to blame
Since time out of mind
Like Jekyll and Hyde
History has been one great divide
Where power and greed
Has forever conquered need
From medieval Dukes and Earls
And Landed Gentry
To corporate giants and billionaires
And those with plenty
Like moguls and bankers
All high and mighty
And spurned are those
Left in their wake
We watch the suffering
Of this inhumane heartache
Of hungry kids
And food bank users
And working-class losers
And souls on the street
Who can never hope to deplete
The absurd riches of the elite
And while the unworthy share the air
Of this glorious abundant land
They will continue to live in despair
As the bow before phoneys anf hypocrites who declare
That we are all brothers in this land of heather
And we are all in this together
Time will vindicate Stuart and those of us who refuse to be deceived but time is running out.
I have always considered Scotland to be a holy land and I am more convinced than ever that our future as a nation is interwoven with the future of the planet. If our nation dies, then the planet dies. If our nation lives, then there is a chance the planet may yet survive.
The light is dying and I am not sure that there is an avatar or messiah to come who would have the power to change the destiny that humanity has set for itself.
I can’t help feeling that Westminster is the Devil’s playground and evil has triumphed over good. I pray every night for our deliverance as a nation and as a people even although I know that prayer alone does no good. It is like watching everything you have ever loved being destroyed in a fire and there is nothing you can do to stop it because the well has run dry.
However, I will only ever give up my hope for an independent Scotland with my life.
Polly: “ I’d forgive a lot if the present SNP could pull off a Bruce triumph in the end. ”
That’s the carrot they’re dangling, of course. It’s very hypothetical and we have the right to spin it around – how much would you forgive if you knew there would be no indyref2 or Bruce Triumph?
These sort of things are a lot easier if you remain principled. I could possibly forgive the many terrible policy blunders but there’s stuff there that none of us have the right to forgive.
God might forgive them but I doubt if Salmond will.
Its a funny old world right enough. You spend countless hours goading people into voting Independence, delivering bumph through their doors, talking to them endlessly. Convincing, persuading, cajoling.
Yet others view you as some sort of misfit because you read and approve of Wings, who in my experience at least is the most worthy and honest commentator we have in the movement to liberate Scotland.
As the spirit of the old year fades and expires tonight,I shall raise my glass to freedom and to Stu, and to the indominatable spirit of those who will accept nothing less than action from the people who promised it. That is us, and all who grapple with unpleasant truths rather than acquiecsce to a cult of personality.
A new dawn awaits us tomorrow. A new hope. We fight till we drop . A happy new year to everyone when it comes, but be all the more prepared for debate the following day. Peace to you all.
Stu, I don’t think there’s any pride in using the fact that Davidson has been reading your sites or copying some of your words/thoughts that are similar, even if it’s the first time.
All that tells me is there have been unionist trolls on your site for a while and we the yes movement have had to deal with their early abuse and defend ourselves for a while, against them, that might explain some of the unionist terminology used when referring to Nicola sturgeon. We the actual independence movement use different terminology, I watch all news media north and south of the border, nicol.. las was a term used by David Scott in uk column, an anti independence Scottish man, another man whom did not want Scots to free themselves from subservients
Breeks and others don’t give up, there is still hope because you and others like you are still here, still looking to gain independence for you, your family and the bigger family in Scotland, we are still here and it is we the people that are sovereign, not (the) or a government, we still have the broken treaties to that will come to our aid, we still have the claim of right that is there to use, and we still have the right to self determination. These three combined give us, the sovereign people of Scotland the grounds for ending the treaty of the union in a very legal manner without violence,
What we do not have is discussions on how to implement it, these have and are still ignored by the commentary on Scottish sights.
(A) First we must as a nation withhold our consent from the parliaments to the direction they have taken us. We have to, as a sovereign nation of people use our claim of right to suspend all parliaments until we choose a new government,
The other issue that we do have, enough people knowing we have the legal right to do this,
(B) I would suggest that this must be thoroughly aired out on this Scottish site by those whom see a a way forward, and recognise the difference between people’s sovereignty in Scotland, against parliamentry sovereignty, there is a big difference here.
(C) We must be able to show that we have an alternative form of governance to replace the old government, even if this is temporary, I would suggest a people’s parliament, not a citizens parliament, and not a political based party groups parliament. These political aligned party groups never ever have the people’s interests first. They have their own pockets to line.
There has to be shown steps to be taken and procedures to follow, A format, it has to be organised.
We the sovereign people of Scotland must display our right to sovereignty, and use it to prevent Scotland, its people, and its nation from becoming obsolete.
SilverDarling @ 1.03
Former Chief Medical Officer Sir Harry Burns noted the desperate health issues amongst some Scots as being all too similar to other aborigine communities who had become ‘dislocated from their culture’. So we should really be asking why our Scottish culture (and language) is ‘dislocated’, i.e. effed up and by whom.
We don’t have far to look. Culture and language imperialism are the key colonizers tools for any people subject to colonial oppression. They also remain the root cause of inequality and adverse health consequences, including mental health (e.g. schizoid personality, appropriated racial oppression).
Scots really need to better understand our colonial reality in aw its mankit naitur which is always the key motivation of any ‘people’ for independence and hence for decolonisation, which are one and the same.
Saffron Robe: too early for the bevvy, mate.
James Che – You’ve hit the nail on the head.
It would be good if we could persuade the Welsh and Irish polititions to do the same Breeks and leave the English tories to try to carry on if legally possible.
Alf Baird’s comments resonate here. The presence of Scots mps in the current circumstances is meaningless. Their only option was to register the absurdity of the vote by withdrawing. The Starmer position more or less finishes off the Labour party as an oppositon. Their manifesto is ‘vote Labour because we are almost as good as a tory’
As Prof. Baird suggests, the Scots are a conlonised people who’s political minds have been shaped through the relentless methodological nationalism of the state. Until we recognise Brexit turns Scots into slaves of the state, Scots will never enjoy the benefits of democracy, e.g. good health.
The Primacy of Narrative Agency: A Feminist Theory of the
Self
https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/212687699.pdf
While I’m at it.
Our Times Are Always Out of Joint: Feminist Relational Ethics in and of the World Today: An Interview with Rosi Braidotti
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/09574042.2017.1355683
I will be watching the Hogmanay Ceilidh on BBC ALBA at 11.30 PM to 1.00AM (Freeview channel 7 ), usually much superior to the BBC1 effort.
Stu, I don’t think there’s any pride in using the fact that Davidson has been reading your sites or copying some of your words/thoughts that are similar, even if it’s the first time.
All that tells me is there have been unionist trolls on your site for a while and we the yes movement have had to deal with their early abuse and defend ourselves for a while, against them, that might explain some of the unionist terminology used when referring to Nicola sturgeon. We the actual independence movement use different terminology, I watch all news media north and south of the border, nicol.. las was a term used by David Scott in uk column, an anti independence Scottish man, another man whom did not want Scots to free themselves from subservients
Breeks and others don’t give up, there is still hope because you and others like you are still here, still looking to gain independence for you, your family and the bigger family in Scotland, we are still here and it is we the people that are sovereign, not (the) or a government, we still have the broken treaties to that will come to our aid, we still have the claim of right that is there to use, and we still have the right to self determination. These three combined give us, the sovereign people of Scotland the grounds for ending the treaty of the union in a very legal manner without violence,
What we do not have is discussions on how to implement it, these have and are still ignored by the commentary on Scottish sights.
(A) First we must as a nation withhold our consent from the parliaments to the direction they have taken us. We have to, as a sovereign nation of people use our claim of right to suspend all parliaments until we choose a new government,
The other issue that we do have, enough people knowing we have the legal right to do this,
(B) I would suggest that this must be thoroughly aired out on this Scottish site by those whom see a a way forward, and recognise the difference between people’s sovereignty in Scotland, against parliamentry sovereignty, there is a big difference here.
(C) We must be able to show that we have an alternative form of governance to replace the old government, even if this is temporary, I would suggest a people’s parliament, not a citizens parliament, and not a political based party groups parliament. These political aligned party groups never ever have the people’s interests first. They have their own pockets to line.
There has to be shown steps to be taken and procedures to follow, A format, it has to be organised.
We the sovereign people of Scotland must display our right to sovereignty, and use it to prevent Scotland, its people, and its nation from becoming obsolete.
I submitted this comment just after breeks comment, it didn’t go through, so 20 minutes later tried again, did not go through, so now as usual I have to slightly change or add to comment for it to change enough to go through.a good number of hours later I am trying again. I do not have this problem anywhere else,
Now they appear both close to each other, but posted entirely different times on the clock, I checked.
So how are comments on the claim of right, and the right to self determination, a subject held back or by whom, as I have stated before I don’t have this problem anywhere else or on any other subject.
Just this one,
However it happens or why ever it happens increases my interest, why would a subject such as your right to self determination and the Scottish your claim of right be a squashed subject and by whom,
Who does not want you to know you have a back door out,
James, I don’t think it’s anything sinister, certainly not on this site. I posted a comment earlier which took an unusually long time to load, so it may just be a technical problem.
However, I agree entirely with the veracity of your comment(s). The British Establishment most certainly don’t want us to know that our handcuffs are unlocked. Further to that, as of midnight tonight with the unequivocal breaking of the Treaty of Union, our handcuffs will not even exist.
I particularly liked your comment that “these three combined give us, the sovereign people of Scotland, the grounds for ending the Treaty of Union in a very legal manner without violence”. And you are right, we mustn’t give up.
@ Hatuey
‘how much would you forgive if you knew there would be no indyref2 or Bruce Triumph?
These sort of things are a lot easier if you remain principled’
Perhaps, though things are never black and white. Wallace might be looked on as principled, Bruce certainly wasn’t and if we want independence we can’t be purer than pure for politics has never allowed that to win. The murder of Comyn is a tad worse than the present situation as far as morals go. No doubt Salmond won’t forgive any more than Comyn’s relatives but these things can be got over and forgiven if they’re successful long term. I fear the attempted elimination of Salmond though was more like the attempted assassination of the Bruce rather than the action being carried out by him.
“I refuse to accept – a vote against this deal is a vote for No Deal.”
It really doesn’t matter what you do or don’t accept. That’s what the reality is.
Stu, A week is a long time in politics etc.
The average voter only sees the SNP voting against Johnson’s woeful Brexit deal.
Sir Keir’s blunder in backing it will scupper Labour in Scotland for good.
2021 won’t be driven by the SNP leadership, but by the whole party.
Urgency, not patience is the name of the game.
Also the new NEC will turn the heat up on strategy IMO.
The stats don’t show the breakdown per country, one can’t infer anything about the position of SNP supporters without that split of the 10%.
Either you’re not good at interpreting statistics, or are intentionally leaving out data which goes against your premise, aka bias.
“The stats don’t show the breakdown per country, one can’t infer anything about the position of SNP supporters without that split of the 10%.”
And who did infer such a thing? Not me.