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Wings Over Scotland

A tale of two timestamps

Posted on January 28, 2020 by

Well, at least they gave it serious and respectful consideration first.

Be fair, that’s almost two whole hours before being told to sod off and eat our cereal. If that’s not one partner in a union showing the other respect, we don’t know what is.

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    379 to “A tale of two timestamps”

    1. Den Cairns says:

      A new Dark Age right enough.

    2. winifred mccartney says:

      WM just a bully – does not listen, ears closed – the answer is no, does not matter what it is, good/bad no difference the answer is NO. Equal partner!!!!!

    3. Giesabrek says:

      This just shows that from now on there will be no more powers devolved to Scotland and in fact there will very likely be powers revoked, slowly and as quietly as possible.

    4. desimond says:

      Could be an apt time for a Morrissey based re-release

      So, if there’s something you’d like to try
      If there’s something you’d like to try
      Ask me, I won’t say no, how could I?

    5. Vivian O'Blivion says:

      This outrageously dismissive behaviour is to be wholly welcomed. It lets the neutrals and soft Unionist know where they really factor in to the new age of elected dictator Johnson. More please, the sooner the better.

    6. Iain says:

      Great to know that WM is still proactively recruiting for the independence cause.

    7. HandandShrimp says:

      Johnson’s downfall will be his arrogance.

      In the meantime “We must nurse our wrath to keep it warm”.

    8. Stoker says:

      Giesabrek rote on 28 January, 2020 at 2:15 pm: “…there will very likely be powers revoked, slowly and as quietly as possible.”

      A little optimistic there me thinks. This lot at Westminster don’t give a damn what anyone thinks of them. When they decide to further emasculate Scotland again they will do so in their habitual openly obnoxious arrogant manner. The superiors way. 😉

    9. manandboy says:

      This Tory Westminster Government has no respect whatsoever for the Treaties. It’s as if the Act of Union had never happened. This government according to the playground bully principle – bigger than everyone else.

      OK, so we’ve known that for quite some time.

      But that is on their side. What about us. What to we DO about Johnson/Cummings’ casual laddish statements. Just retreat backwards, apologising as we close the door quietly, and leave whimpering in terror.

      We MUST DO Something, if only to demonstrate that we know our rights and our Law.

      We must act independently before we can become Independent.

    10. Sharny Dubs says:

      Words fail.

      But I guess we all knew it is how it will be.

      Shame on us of we sit on our hands.

    11. callmedave says:


      But many of us here in Scotland rage and know where we stand while some of the rest of us don’t care enough and then that remainder rump nod and find that message from WM makes their day! 🙁

      Wilkins Micawberism a theory of optimism and hope but not for the
      shortbread stations and papers dishing out cauld parritch in endless helpings.

    12. Stoker says:

      To anyone in The SNP hierarchy who may be reading this: Is there a game of let’s see who blinks first before Friday going on here?

    13. Robert Roddick says:

      Not a word of this on the BBC news at 1.30pm.

    14. Republicofscotland says:

      It’s pretty obvious that Westminster has no real respect for the Scottish governments ideas on helping Scotland.

      Johnson is now just ignoring Scottish wishes completely and doing what he wants. This isnt a union of equals (It never was) we must find a way to end this union sooner than later.

    15. Mist001 says:

      It’s exactly what I posted about last night. She asks for things that she knows aren’t attainable and it makes her look like the poor victim and them like the bad guys when Westminster refuse. It’s just a big game. It’s not a strategy, it’s not a gameplan for gaining independence, it’s solely designed to fire up independence supporters who will come here and express their outrage while achieving absolutely nothing.

    16. Republicofscotland says:

      “It’s exactly what I posted about last night. She asks for things that she knows aren’t attainable.”

      Well if you don’t ask you won’t get will you, the fact that Johnson dismissed the 94 page document in less than two hours, shows quite clearly the lack of political will within the UK government to help Scotland.

      I’m not interested in how it makes Sturgeon look, and I’m sure others aren’t either, its what Sturgeon can achieve for Scots that matters, of course the ultimate goal is independence, and the PM’s rapid slight will do our cause no harm.

    17. Steve ashton says:

      This is “working closely with” the devolved parliaments is it? This is Boris taking up the reigns as self appointed minister of the Union.

    18. frogesque says:

      Who says Labour have no influence? Looks like they have persuaded the Tories to adopt the Bain Principle, in full, with knobs on.

    19. manandboy says:

      “If we wish to survive, to leave an inhabitable planet to pass on to our grandchildren, we must re-order our lives radically, drastically, personally and socially.
      And we must also insist our governments respond adequately to the challenge”

      This statement is clearly worthy of careful consideration and implementation.

      Let’s now apply it to Scotland’s Independence.

      “If we wish to survive as a nation and an independent country, and to leave a country fit to pass on to our grandchildren, we must re-order our lives radically, drastically, personally and socially.
      And we must also insist our government responds adequately to the challenge”

      It is time for the Scottish Nation to end the Colonial sham of the so-called Union. It can only begin, literally, by getting on to our feet and leaving aside for a while our other concerns, beginning with the ones which are a waste of time and are not important. For a while. That’s all that is needed.

      Please, don’t do NOTHING about your grandchildren’s future.

      They, will need a planet to live on and a free country to live in.

      Their hopes and dreams won’t be fulfilled by huge numbers of this generation sitting about wasting precious time.

      Ps. Yep! I’m fed up being a colonised native under English Rule.

    20. kapelmeister says:

      Having power isn’t enough for de Peffle. He’s got to humiliate people too.

    21. birnie says:

      Much fuss today about the EU flag being removed/kept flying at Holyrood.

      My understanding is that the flag in question is the flag of the Council of Europe, of which the UK was a founder member (5 May 1949) and is not leaving. The flag was subsequently adopted (1983) as the most appropriate for the European Union, a quite separate entity.

      As the flag of the Council of Europe, there is no need to consider its removal from outside the Scottish parliament.

      Yesterday I hoisted a 6-foot Council of Europe (“European”) flag from my own garden flagpole!

    22. Mike d says:

      Till the people of Scotland grow a pair, this is only going to get worse.

    23. Ottomanboi says:

      No more nice guy stuff. Enough of this abuse.
      Masochism is the classic vice anglais, it ought not to be ours.
      Let’s hear it for ‘extremism’!

    24. Juteman says:

      Love it.
      Keep it coming Boris.
      Our time will come.

    25. winifred mccartney says:

      Maybe on Friday Nicola will announce a Scottish Election with one word on the ballot paper INDEPENDENCE if we gain a majority?????

    26. winifred mccartney says:

      Sorry not the ballot paper the Manifesto.

    27. Pete says:

      How would it be possible for Westminster to agree to this without a border.
      Get real – this is just more of NS trying to look the victim.

    28. The Westminster gov., of course will ignore you it ignores the murder and theft in Palastine and the Chagos islanders winning the right to return to their homeland also the people of Lancashire vote for to have no fracking they have the cheek to talk about China and North Korea and at the same tlme ruling us in the same way but the real criminals in all of this are us for allowing these things to happen yes the real guilt lies with us because by doing nothing we are condoning it and that is the truth .I still feel the way I felt after our ref.,ASHAMED

    29. Pete says:

      In fact, where I live folks are not interested in depopulation.
      All they see are more and more Muslim women pushing prams and the last thing they want is more immigration.
      Doesn’t make sense?

    30. Almond Chutney says:

      Pete says:
      28 January, 2020 at 3:07 pm
      How would it be possible for Westminster to agree to this without a border.

      Well it wouldn’t, I would presume that holding a ‘Scottish Visa’ is just opening the back door into England, so why would WM agree to it?

      Scotland should be looking to address the depopulation of the working age by making more effort to make young Scots want to stay, not leave. Have they considered this?

    31. Almond Chutney says:

      Pete says:
      28 January, 2020 at 3:20 pm
      In fact, where I live folks are not interested in depopulation.
      All they see are more and more Muslim women pushing prams and the last thing they want is more immigration.
      Doesn’t make sense?

      While I agreed with your last post, I don’t agree with this, it’s a bit racist to assume these ‘Muslim women pushing prams’ are instantly immigrants.

    32. Pete says:

      Almond Chutney.
      Again, I agree.
      If you want to stop depopulation, the first thing to do is to reduce taxes to the level of RUK.
      Who wants to come to a country with higher tax rates for the higher qualified?
      Remember the Laffer curve.
      I know we get more benefits but, if you’re young and aspirational, who cares??
      Also. our education system is poor. Needs fixing.
      Roads networks are lousy.
      Try getting round Edinburgh any day of the week.
      The record of the SNP government is appalling and badly needs fixed

    33. Breeks says:


      News from the teleprinter… that Friday’s speech ….will now be delivered by …. a headless man …. on a galloping horse.

      “They say no”.

      “They actually say fuck your Brexit, get it right up yiz. What do we do now Boris?”…

      Teleprinter then goes silent…. as Scotland turns off the leccy….

      Yeah. I know. But I thought we needed cheered up.

    34. Pete says:

      Almond Chutney
      Most Scots are bigoted racists.
      They don’t state it outwardly but, behind closed doors it is obviously apparent.
      Everyone is basically tribal and it is no good trying to deny it.
      Fans of my local football team view fans of any of the Fife teams as total inbreds, but, hey, that’s real life.

    35. Juteman says:

      Fuck off Pete ya racist fuckwit.

    36. Republicofscotland says:

      “How would it be possible for Westminster to agree to this without a border.
      Get real – this is just more of NS trying to look the victim.”

      I suppose in the same way that Johnson said they’ll be no border between NI and the RoI after Brexit.

      As for Sturgeon playing the victim, Johnson’s refusal to let the Scottish public decide their own future in a referendum, equates to democracy being the real victim here.

    37. Republicofscotland says:

      “Most Scots are bigoted racists.”

      “Fans of my local football team view fans of any of the Fife teams as total inbreds,”

      So you’ve smeared an entire country’s population on the strength of what, some football fans who follow a local team, saying/chanting offensive things about other football fans.

      Not to bright are you?

    38. Clapper57 says:

      @ frogesque @ 2.47pm

      “Who says Labour have no influence? Looks like they have persuaded the Tories to adopt the Bain Principle, in full, with knobs on”.

      Hi frogesque, talking of Knobs…did you see yon Douglas Ross in HOC last night playing at being one of the big boys…sitting in the Big boys seats looking all IMPORTANT…though what he said was totally IMPOTENT….below is a wee ditty in (non) homage to him….Hee Hee

      Hey ROSS you ain’t the BOSS and your win was defo Scotland’s LOSS and it’s clear to us that you don’t give a TOSS so GTF and know, that to us, you will always be considered DROSS….you hang round our necks like an ALBATROSS and there’s nothing worthwhile that you’re ever able to say or competent enough to put’re about as useful as a stanley knife is to use as a means to FLOSS….so shut up and sit down cause your services ain’t required by Scots it’s akin to a Pig wearing LIPGLOSS…..indeed a fair comparison to your political (non) performance and where you choose politically, as a Union uber alles, as the bestest place for you to DOSS….down as in WM…THE only home to THE House Jocks “Proud Scots But”… Tory MP’s….whose hearts belong to Daddy BJ….another Tory that, for Scots, fails to ENGROSS ….GROSS being the operative word for you all…’re welcome.

      I’m channeling my inner McGonagall….all commissions welcome.

    39. Republicofscotland says:

      “Who wants to come to a country with higher tax rates for the higher qualified?
      Remember the Laffer curve.
      I know we get more benefits but, if you’re young and aspirational, who cares??
      Also. our education system is poor. Needs fixing.
      Roads networks are lousy.
      Try getting round Edinburgh any day of the week.
      The record of the SNP government is appalling and badly needs fixed”

      I don’t even know where to start with this misinformation, I’m of a mind that Pete is just taking the piss. I’m sure other commentors in here will recognise this for what it is, nonsense.

      Pete, any credibility you had in here is now gone.

    40. Dr Jim says:

      We’ve got a tag team now, to you, to me, to you, it’s the chuckle brothers

    41. Breeks says:

      Don’t bite Juteman.

      Just show it to your kids so they know how to recognise a BritNat shit stirrer.

    42. Rm says:

      Scotland’s a country not an English region the Scottish Government have to put up more of a fight we must have good Independent thinking Lawyers who can challenge Westminster, it’s getting more dire by the day.

    43. Dr Jim says:

      Sajid Javid says England has a better record than the SNP in Scotland on all public services– now wait for it—and because there are more people it’s harder

      There’s a man who doesn’t understand either percentages or geography, how do we know this, because he was asked how big was Scotland and he said “about one third the size of England! so he never went to school either, then again maybe that’s what they teach in English schools, is that not what they call brainwashing? they can’t naturally be that stupid, can they?

    44. Pete says:

      Republic of Scotland
      Okay, refute this.
      I was on the Edinburgh city bypass last Thursday around 3pm and it was utter gridlock. No breakdowns or accidents.
      I don’t live in Edinburgh but maybe residents of that city might care to respond.
      How can Business flourish with transport systems like that?

    45. Mist001 says:

      Well, three days left until Scotland gets dragged out of the EU against its will, something that Ian Blackford clearly stated that the SNP wouldn’t allow to happen.

      Friday is also the re-arranged day for Nicolas big speech. Maybe the big reveal of the fabled ‘Plan B’.

      Or more likely more of the same platitudes and shite.

    46. Vivian O'Blivion says:

      YouGov Westminster voting intentions. Field work 24th to 26th Jan. Headlines; Tories (UK wide) 49%. Scottish sub-sample (140 weighted) SNP 50%, Tories 27%, Lab 13%, LibDem (an astonishingly irrelevant) 6%. Given the position of the Tories in Scotland, that puts them over the 50% mark in E & W.
      Face it folks the Tories have Westminster in the bag for a decade and longer.

    47. Gary45% says:

      Lets hope its not.
      “We Came, We saw, We mm, well, um, didny want to upset anybody in Westminster, but jist keep voting fur us, cause ye ken, we ur Scoatland’s champion, trust us we ur different from the rest.
      Oh aye and here’s sum cereal, lap it up till we need ye at the next elecshun.
      Friday will be the answer. I hope its all guns blazing.

      Chutney and Pete, “The Arsehole Brothers” do you ask each other over the barrack table what todays spouting racist, bigoted shite will be?
      Stop being arseholes and take the day off.

    48. stewartb says:

      Westminster’s rapid, outright rejection of the SG’s proposals on immigration is based on Unionist dogma and intransigence not on what is operationally feasible or beneficial.

      There are examples internationally of how sub-state governments can operate with different immigration rules.

      For example:

      The above source sets out how immigration rules in Australia provide for flexibility for state governments.

      And as a further example:

      The above source describes flexibility for the governments of the Canadian provinces. It states this:

      “Do you want to work and live in Canada? There are over 70 different ways to secure your visa application, depending on your qualifications. Each of the 13 provinces and territories provides something different for newcomers but what is the easiest province to immigrate to Canada through?”

      And then there is this from the Institute for Public Policy Research (IPPR):

      “Our immigration strategy should actively address geographical imbalances in the economy. Geographical flexibility should be built into the immigration system, in order to address sustained economic imbalances across the UK’s nations and regions. This could be done in one of two ways: a ‘sub-state’ system that would remain in the hands of central government but would allow immigration rules to vary across nations and regions; or a ‘devolved’ system that would give new powers to sub-state bodies over how to shape their immigration rules. Under both proposals, the Home Office would retain responsibility for issuing visas and non-labour migration would remain under the purview of central government. But there would be new variations between work migration rules across the different nations and regions of the UK.
      • A sub-state or devolved system could help to address geographical disparities in immigration.
      • A devolved system would give nations and regions more control over their own immigration rules.
      • A sub-state or devolved system could be managed through the current Home Office measures to deal with immigration and prevent overstaying.”

      The actual evidence from Australia and Canada, and the serious consideration given to the topic by the IPPR, contrasts with the dismissive, evidence-free viewpoint given at 3.07pm.

    49. Gary45% says:

      I hope your wrong. The heads still holding high in belief, but the heart is,??
      I’ll leave it at that.

    50. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Posting this again, from very late in last thread.

      If you can’t be bothered or don’t have time to watch it all, please at least catch the start, the end, and make a special note of who crops up at the half-hour mark.

      ‘The Only Game In Town, pt 2 – The Cover-Up’, by Campbell Martin

    51. Pete says:

      Only thing is, you can’t refute my contentions
      Road networkS in Edinburgh
      Laffer theory on tax rates
      Education System
      Endemic Scots racism and bigotry
      One good thing we have is NHS Scotland where it is much easier to get treatment than elsewhere in the UK.

    52. shug says:

      We will remember this dismissive approach when they want to talk about transition for Faslane.

      The rent is just going to keep going up

    53. Mist001 says:

      Immigration was always reserved to Westminster and Nicola knew that damned well, so what’s next? She’s tried a section 30 and been knocked back. She’s tried immigration and been knocked back. Maybe she’ll go for the hat trick on Friday and ask Westminster if Scotland can have control over its defence.

      Since that’s also a reserved matter, then it wouldn’t surprise me in the least if that’s what she tried.

    54. Mist001 says:

      I’ll tell you what I’m seeing a LOT of recently and particularly today, is Westminster use of the word ‘Sovereignty’.

      It’s appearing more and more frequently and it was used today over the dealings with the Chinese phone people ‘Huawei’.

      What they have to do with British sovereignty, I have no idea but keep your eyes open and you’ll see this word being used more and more.

      My view is that it’s being purposely used as a statement of intent and designed to have the word and concept firmly implanted in peoples minds. I’ve seen this kind of stuff happen before.

    55. Pete says:

      You are just so correct.
      Why can’t the other posters see just how pathetic she looks.
      At least BOJO has defied Trump and gone with Huawei.
      I’m not keen but at least he’s made a decision.

    56. Gary45% says:

      Keep reading the Mail and Express.

    57. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Great entertainment on this thread today folks – young “Pete” – the latest recruit to Westminster’s black ops anti-SNP sections, really setting-out to begin with a bang.

      Harping on about the Edinburgh City by-pass; at least, while I have occasionally hit slow-moving or static traffic there, I have never been in a traffic jam there at 1am, as I have more than once been on the M25.

      Then, he piles in with the Westminster-generated fake enws about Scotland.

      Good to have you aboard young “Pete,” this site welcomes the arrival of a new Unionist village idiot.

      You will go the same way as your less than distinguished predecessors.

      I can only offer you the tradition Wing’ welcome to you and your kind: Awa and bile yer heid ya bawbag.

    58. Pete says:

      Gary 45
      More of a Telegraph person, Gary.

    59. Famous15 says:

      How many times must it be said. AUSTRALIA AND CANADA among many countries have visa entry differences for its provinces, states or territories. With my skills I can get a visa for work in South Australia but could not work in New South Wales.

      If we do not get this visa sorted say goodbye to fruit harvest ,fish processing and agriculture and do not get me started on the hospitality industry!

      The TAX difference in Scotland only affects the highest earners many of whom. . . will benefit in other ways from working in Scotland.

      Laffer curve you say. Laughing all the way home from my Economics lecture. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing and a chronic illness in Tories.

    60. Mike d says:

      Dr Jim 4.02pm. Oh believe me, a lot of them are. They get their news from the BBC and sky so it must be true.

    61. ahundredthidiot says:

      Pete and Almond chutsberry baws……why don’t you two skip Wings and just talk directly to each other over the top of your screens?


    62. CameronB Brodie says:

      Scotland is not dealing with reasonable, moderate, individuals or government. We are dealing with an institutional culture that is riddled with structural racism. Racists are unlikely to simply discriminate against people of colour, as prejudiced personalities tend to feel hostility to all those perceived as cultural Others. Brexitania won’t be pleasant if you are not already privileged, and social mobility is likely to suffer.

      Full text.

      Right-Wing Authoritarianism and Social Dominance Orientation and the Dimensions of Generalized Prejudice: A Longitudinal Test

      A Dual Process Model (DPM) approach to prejudice proposes that there should be at least two dimensions of generalized prejudice relating to outgroup stratification and social perception, which should be differentially predicted by Right-Wing Authoritarianism (RWA) and Social Dominance Orientation (SDO).

      The current study assessed the causal effects of SDO and RWA on three dimensions of prejudice using a full cross-lagged longitudinal sample (N – 127). As expected, RWA, but not SDO, predicted prejudice towards ‘dangerous’ groups, SDO, but not RWA, predicted prejudice towards ‘derogated’ groups, and both RWA and SDO predicted prejudice towards ‘dissident’ groups. Results support previously untested causal predictions derived from the DPM and indicate that different forms of prejudice result from different SDO- and RWA-based motivational processes. Copyright © 2009 John Wiley & Sons, Ltd.

    63. Breeks says:

      Ian Brotherhood says:
      28 January, 2020 at 4:14 pm
      Posting this again, from very late in last thread….

      I “joked” a few days ago about the recommendation somebody made to read “His Bloody Project”. Without wanting to detract from the excellent book, I speculated whether the Constable who was abusing his position was actually wanting a job with Scottish Borders Council, because he’d fit right in to that rogues paradise.

      Scotland has a big problem with it’s mafiosa Councils and the endemic abuses of power which go on, but it’s been my experience that nobody wants to know, and it’s the little guy vs the full weight of the Cooncil if he dares to make a complaint.

      True, Scotland’s Local Authorities are a battleground, and for as long as there are red and blue Tories on the make who are more than happy for Scotland to flounder, it makes it a difficult problem to address. I’m not entirely sure the SNP is all that interested, (or all that clean) either, but things might change after Independence when Unionism is exposed for the corrupting malevolence which it is.

      I don’t know that it will change after Indy, but I do know it certainly won’t change without it.

    64. Pete says:

      Gave me a chuckle. You have a good turn of phrase.
      I bet you haven’t ever experienced a jam at 1am. I was stuck at 3pm.
      Anyway, a couple of serious questions.
      After the UK leaves, if Scotland were to go independent, what guarantees have the EU given to enable us to be readmitted seamlessly.
      Surely the SG must have asked for this and needs to be given to all the Remain voters.
      Secondly, what currency would we be using. After the 2014 debacle, surely this must be settled?
      Straightforward answers please?

    65. Josef Ó Luain says:

      At the moment, it’s glaringly obvious that the Army of Independence is in dire need of a new Field Marshal and a fresh crop of Generals and tacticians to take us forward. Thus far we, the rank-and-file, have been too keen to play the role of the proverbial “lions led by donkeys”.

      It is deservedly so then, that we find ourselves collectively fucked. Internecine fighting won’t remedy our position, it is only our bloody-minded unity and our relentless efforts that will save-the-day.

    66. Republicofscotland says:

      “Okay, refute this.
      I was on the Edinburgh city bypass last Thursday around 3pm and it was utter gridlock. No breakdowns or accidents.
      I don’t live in Edinburgh but maybe residents of that city might care to respond.
      How can Business flourish with transport systems like that?”


      This is childish nonsense, show me a major city or capital that doesn’t suffer from traffic congestion, most do. Is Edinburgh supposed to be the exception. Infact I’ll go one better, Edinburgh is the exception in the fact that the Scottish government are having to run a country with one hand tied behind its back, and still managing to do a fairly good job.

      Pete, why don’t you post something positive for a change about Scotland.

    67. scunner says:

      What kind of dumbass goes onto the Edinburgh bypass between 3 and 6 and expects it to be clear?

      There’s nothing wrong with the road, the issue is all the drones who prefer living outside Edinburgh as you get more for your property pound out in the boonies.

      As for the tax, if you really believe anyone is going up sticks to move down south in an attempt to save a few hundred quid then you’re off your rocker.

    68. Corrado Mella says:

      Why are you all wasting time with long posts and diatribe?

      Come out here and smash any outpost of the fascists, like the French have been doing for months.

      Macron just backed down from its stupid pension reform because people with a spine were in the streets every fucking week protesting against it.

      You want to be heard? Scream. Hard. Long. Forever. Everywhere.

      We must give the sociopaths in Westminster no quarter.
      They’re just a handful of little opportunistic cowards.

    69. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Breeks –

      I’m not a sleuth and find it difficult to follow some of these ‘investigative’ reports, but that Campbell Martin film is clear and watchable.

      According to the friend who sent me the link and asked me to share it, it’s only ‘the tip of the iceberg’.

      And I repeat, for those who haven’t watched it, please – please! – at least scan through, if only to see the person who appears at the half hour mark.

      One other thought – why has it been left to Campbell Martin to do all this work? Does the Scottish MSM have *any’ investigative journalists (outwith football-related shenanigans) worthy of the name?

    70. ScottieDog says:

      Chatting to a polish lady today. She has to apply for settled status for her and 2 Scottish born sons. Been here 14 years. £5k cost with no guarantees.
      Just shocking.
      I told her in no uncertain terms that independence is the way forward. I was in a shop in the borders – and made bloody sure folk could hear me.

    71. ahundredthidiot says:

      From James Kelly tweet thing

      First post-election YouGov subsample has the SNP at a heady 50% of the vote – #indyref2 #indyref2020

    72. Gary says:

      Almost enough time for them to have read the newspaper article, although NOT enough time for them to have read the proposal. Dismissed out of hand, this is how they are starting their term in government, where will we be by the end of it?

    73. ahundredthidiot says:

      It’d be good to see Rev Stu commission a poll on our voting intentions and/or Independence ‘post-brexit’… in, next bleedin week!!!!

    74. CameronB Brodie says:

      Pete is trying to distract from Scotland’s lack of substantive constitutional justice. He’s not going to be persuaded, and probably isn’t here with an open mind anyway. He’s quite possibly being paid to wind us up.

    75. Pete says:

      I was trying to get to Mortonhall crematorium and had no option.
      Most of the traffic was heavy goods trying to keep the economy going.
      Yes, not many will leave because of tax but I thought we were trying to encourage people to come here.
      Republic of Scotland
      A short while back I praised the NHS in my area which I have found to be excellent.
      Look, I’m very proud be to be Scottish and, when asked where I come from, in say the USA, I say Scotland but I also take pride in being British and enjoy being part of the UK which embraces the traditions of all 4 nations.
      I see no contradiction in that shared loyalty whereas, although I love going to other European countries, I don’t have the same feelings of belonging which I have with my fellow Britains.
      I just think it’s all very sad that you are all filled with this burning anger and hatred.
      Maybe a Federalist system is the answer?

    76. Gary45% says:

      Pete or Chutney or Joe, 3 Names same erse.
      “Endemic “Scots” racism and bigotry.”
      That comment in itself is Racist, you have already been corrected regarding Edinburgh and tax. How much Scottish money has been pumped into London and the Southern-shires, with no benefit to Scotland? That answer in total is buried so deep even Petrocelli would never find it.

      Lets see the “Parasite State” on Friday night in action in London and Thanet. Unless you are a Native Scot, Fife is out of bounds for any sarcastic comments.
      Only Scots slag off Fifers Ye Ken.
      Awa an rid yir pipir oan the links ae the Kingdum, while yur munchin oan a roastin ingin peh, ya scone.

    77. Old Pete says:

      With the SNP sitting at 50% and the Greens on 2% why doesn’t the Scottish parliament have a special sitting on Friday night then just declare Independence at 00:01 on Saturday and let’s see what happens ?
      Wonder what Boris and his Facist government would do ?
      Wonder how the anti-Scots born in Scotland, the large group of English settlers who moved here who don’t consider Scotland to be a country and all the loyalist die hard bigots would react ?
      Certainly would bring Scotland and its need for Independence to the fore on all the world wide media that’s for sure.

      Would need a government that has guts, determination and willingness to go all out for the cause.
      Likely to happen ? With this Scottish government probably no chance. Think the idea would make a good story for a novel, if only it was fact and not fiction.

    78. Dr Jim says:

      Every time they run Scotland down a wee bell rings and someone joins the SNP

      Racism and bigotry in Scotland exists amongst the Union supporters and always has in much greater bitterness than Independence supporters, and guess who stimulates it and ran an entire campaign based on no surrender, Ruth Davidson

      The Scottish government is funding extra security for places of worship in Scotland against vandalism, and who commits the vandalism, guess who again, the racist right wing Unionists who dislike everybody who isn’t them

      I could point out the research done and results and post it, but for what, British Nationalist Unionists to deny violently they’re violent and deny all the research on the subject

    79. scunner says:

      Ah yes Federalism, just what the doctor ordered.
      Guaranteed to soothe my all-consuming hatred.

      Are you talking proper Federal like in Germany, or a sort of pretend, not-really-Federal-at-all “innovative” British version you’d be guaranteed to get if Westminster ever offered it? (they won’t)

    80. schrodingers cat says:

      not into online polls, or sub samples, but at best an indication of the direction of travel

      European Parliament opens a Petition calling on a vote of EU Parliament to support Scotlands independent membership of the EU to online signatures–Scotland%25E2%2580%2599%252C-on-a-request-that-the-European-Parliament-votes-to-support-Scotland%25E2%2580%2599s-independent-membership-of-the-EU

    81. Reluctant Nationalist says:

      “He’s quite possibly being paid to wind us up.”

      Haha wow. Well, wherever in the world they are, someone will know them and everyone has their price. Nothing to be concerned about.

    82. schrodingers cat says:

      ahundredthidiot says:
      28 January, 2020 at 5:07 pm
      It’d be good to see Rev Stu commission a poll on our voting intentions and/or Independence ‘post-brexit’… in, next bleedin week!!!!


    83. Liz g says:

      Pete @ 5.16
      If you’re feelz for Britain are making ye sad…
      You Mibbi want to rethink the blogs ye visit!
      We are well beyond Federalism here,that ships long sailed.
      We heard the offer in 2014,we examined it and said it wouldn’t work for Scotland.
      We also found that attempting to implement it would mean such a loss of power for Westminster they were most likely lying.
      And we were right…
      I think ( although I have no real way of knowing ) it’s leaving the EU on Friday that’s really bringing ye down.
      While ye have nae fond thoughts for Europe it’s going to end the UK…. Well Pete… We didn’t do that either!

    84. CameronB Brodie says:

      “Only Scots slag off Fifers Ye Ken.”

      Especially Dundonians. 🙂

      And now for a bit more on the forces currently shaping British politics.

      We Will Hunt Them Down: How Social Dominance
      Orientation and Right-wing Authoritarianism Fuel
      Ethnic Persecution of Immigrants in Fundamentally
      Different Ways

    85. Sandy says:

      Pete, Chutney, Mist001.

      Try the bucket of water system. Instructions to remind you.

      1. Prepare large notice for all to see – “Do not touch or disturb”.
      2. Immerse head fully up, to neck, in full bucket of water.
      3. Breath very deeply.
      4. Ensure to remain in same position for minimum of one hour.

      100% guaranteed success or money back. (Apply Westminster government)

    86. K1 says:

      And there it is, Lesley Evans, at the heart of the PPI/PFI scandal in Ayrshire, and no doubt this corruption is all over Scotland and the rUK.

      If anyone needs or wants an excellent understanding of how PPI/PFI came about look no further than this exhaustive article from Private Eye from 19th March-1st April 2004:


      It’s beginning to look like the top of the SNP has been knobbled, slowly and stealthily for over a decade now. No wonder they wanted rid of the only man who was ever a serious threat to the union. After watching the second part (I had watched the first part a couple of years ago), I am left in no doubt that Lesley Evans and more saliently the UK state has infiltrated the SNP.

      I’ve been reluctant to state any position on this matter over the past few months, but it’s now at the point where we seriously have to consider that our SG is compromised. And I very much doubt that we will ever be close to independence in my own lifetime.

    87. JGedd says:

      Pete says;

      Oh puhlease. Federalism. That old donkey ought to be shot. Only a Britnat like yourself would think that there’s life in that old thing.

      Federalism is meant to bring about fair government among several states. How is that going to happen when one of those is already much larger than the other three? To bring about federalism, a system would have to be established to redress the imbalance to bring about equity in government representation. Do you seriously think that England would happily submit to its representation being reduced to create a fairer balance? Cue howls of outrage from south of the border.

      What I imagine you foresee is exactly what we have now and would be federalism in name only, with flags and anthems for the children amongst us who are satisfied with that kind of show. Meanwhile England would continue to dominate this imaginary federation and get what it wants.

      You, of course, would get what you want as well, confident that the right-wing politics of England would continue to dominate that of Scotland. That is the source of people like yourself identifying with Britannia. It is nothing to do with attachment to the UK but everything to do with forcing your politics on Scotland. A so-called union weighted in favour of one part of it is very much to your own taste.

      Then the old chestnut about hatred. Everyone on your side of the argument pulls out that old quacking canard in order to justify their own hostility. It’s called projection. Have you been paying any attention to the bilious remarks about Scotland coming from south of the border? It isn’t waves of love. Doesn’t bother you because you know that it isn’t about nationalism at all, it’s just the same old politics of keeping the same establishmnet in charge – the one that you feel benefits you and yours.

      You should view Ian Brotherhood’s link at 4.14pm to get some idea how what happens in a wee country is connected to the wholesale transfer of wealth from ordinary people to international capital and the use of tax havens. The rich don’t do nationalism they just use that as a pejorative term to shut down people who simply don’t want to be sheep.
      Money is the country of the rich, but I think you understand that very well

    88. Auld Rock says:

      In olden times we would have sent round ‘The Fiery Cross’ nowadays we must make it abundantly clear that the people Scotland, Wales and N.Ireland will NOT ALLOW any reduction in Devolved Powers by a ‘DICTATOR’ in WASTEMONSTER. Poll Tax marches will be like a walk in the park compared to what Bojo and his tory cronies will bring down on Westminster!!!

    89. CameronB Brodie says:

      I certainly suspect a attack on the functioning of open government and democracy in Scotland, but wouldn’t be able to name names.

    90. K1 says:

      I think that Craig Murray and Stu could name names and that’s the problem, they can’t.

    91. Pete says:

      Okay, a few simple questions on the basis that an independence poll comes about.
      CBB wants me to have an open mind so let’s have straight answers.
      What currency will an independent currency have?
      What conditions have the EU put on Scotland rejoining (I presume this will have been explored)?
      How will the tax regime of an independent Scotland differ from the Uk.
      Will there be border posts with England.
      What will be the immigration policy with non-eu countries (assuming we will be in the EU)
      These are just a few simple questions that voters will require to be answered.
      Please no profanities.

    92. JGedd says:

      Pete says;

      No, how about you answer the question on how you envisage federalism would work in the UK?

    93. CameronB Brodie says:

      “What currency will an independent currency have?”

      Whatever is considered appropriate at the time. Really. it’s no great fuss and of no relevance to Scotland’s lack of substantive constitutional justice.

      “What conditions have the EU put on Scotland rejoining (I presume this will have been explored)?”

      Probably that we will need to maintain the standards we currently operate. Unlike Brexitania, which will put Thatcher’s de-regulation to shame.

      “How will the tax regime of an independent Scotland differ from the Uk.”

      I haven’t clue an neither does anyone else. Silly person.

      “Will there be border posts with England.”

      Probably, but that’s because England chose to leave the EU, not Scotland.

      “What will be the immigration policy with non-eu countries (assuming we will be in the EU)”

      Pretty much what we currently operate, as we are currently complaint with EU regulations. Allowing for Westminster intransigence and reluctance to co-operate legally, of course.


      I hope those answers will do, any more?

    94. Ann Forbes says:

      Below was archived just now. No update since 27th Jan. by BBC!

    95. Republicofscotland says:

      “Haha wow. Well, wherever in the world they are, someone will know them and everyone has their price. Nothing to be concerned about.”

      He’s quite possibly being paid to wind us up.”

      Pete’s more than likely one of several Chinthes in here from Denison barracks.

    96. robertknight says:

      Westminster says No.

      What do you expect from a pig if not a grunt?

      When the 20th No is received in response to the 20th reasonable request, they need to form a list that gets posted to every household in Scotland with the slogan “Better Together?” emblazoned on the bottom.

      Give the NawBags some food for thought…

    97. Republicofscotland says:

      “These are just a few simple questions that voters will require to be answered.
      Please no profanities.”

      You know what Pete, you and Jeremy Fleming can fuck right off, when I think about it why would anyone in here answer or reply to your comment when you think we’re a country of bigots.

      Looking at your comments on this thread its patently obvious why you’re here, and its not to support independence or a better Scotland.

      I’ll ignore your derogatory scrawls from now on.

    98. Dr Jim says:

      Labour’s Keir Starmer the charmer is visiting Scotland today in the wake of losing every Labour MP in our country, I don’t count Ian Murray because he’s a Tory

      But isn’t Keir a lovely man to come to Scotland now to offer us all kinds of democracy that he wouldn’t before and now can’t and never would be in the position of delivering anyway should we care to wait that long and by which time he would have magically changed his mind on the subject because like all the British Nationalist parties he’ll just lie and lie then if he ever got any power he’d be exactly like Boris (the clown) Johnson or Big Treeza (the dancer) May *federalism federalism pooling and sharing you’ll run out of blood and kidneys*

      On another note Holyrood will vote tomorrow on having a referendum, Colin McKay of STV has spoken to some of the MSPs and reckons it will pass no problem

      MSPs are also voting on keeping the EU flag in place and Colin McKay reckons that will pass also so there’ll be no need to get the firearms and rocket launchers out of the basement to fight for that, so that’s lovely

    99. Bill McLean says:

      Pete – a lance-corporal in the Lack of Intelligence Corps tells us he’s more at home “with my fellow Britains” – God help us there’s more than one Britain.

    100. Dr Jim says:

      Why isn’t there a Wings over England so we can all turn up and tell them how shite their country is and expect them to Luurv us

    101. Pete says:

      Thanks for the expletive free reply
      However, I think you’ll find that prospective voters will need quite a few more details than you’re prepared to give.
      Anyway, I’ve been stood down for now.

    102. Dr Jim says:

      We could get details like Brexit has already cost us all more than the EU fees for the next 47 years

      Of course that wasn’t on the side of a bus in England so nobody would’ve believed it eh, funnily enough in Scotland we knew it was all lies, we must be genius’s eh

    103. crazycat says:

      @ Ian Brotherhood at 4.58

      For more discussion see: (14.11.17) (29.11.19)

    104. North chiel says:

      “ The rhinestone cowboy “ at “ Propaganda Quay” , in tonight’s “ prescription dose “ for the “Scottish patients” of familiarisation of the “ new” out of touch Britnat Labour leadership hopefuls . This lot probably can “ probably” find Scotland on a map of the U.K. and that is giving some of them “ the benefit of the doubt” , having listened recently to some of their ignorant utterances. But hey ho “ reporting balderdash” wants our prospective “ Britnat imperial masters” introduced to you all . And more of what “ England wants” to follow on the “ Scottish “ nine apparently. At least cheery Joy with tonight’s weather gives us the “ Scottish” forecast , instead of the “ Britnat Labour leadership forecast .

    105. Gfaetheblock says:

      Sturgeon got what she wanted, a nice picture in front of the castle and something to stir up the faithful to be aggrieved about.

      She traveled round Scotland last month in a ‘Stop Brexit’ bus and convinced some to vote for the SNP on that mandate. She will fail at stopping Brexit. There may be some merit in a regional immigration approach, but the way to try and influence that is through working in a cross party manner behind closed doors, not grandstanding PR stunts.

      The SNP feels lost currently.

    106. Tinto Chiel says:

      @Ian Brotherhood 4.14: thanks for that expose of North Lanarkshire council, from a real journalist.

      A £1,000,000 a month paid by the council to three offshore companies for the construction of four schools as a result of Labour’s PPP/PFI dodgy accounting practices, inspired perhaps by The Creature from The Crypt, aka Gordon Brown.

      Wow! That Leslie Evans gets around. Where is she now, I wonder?

    107. Pete Barton says:

      It seems that many contributions from the SG have been swatted away.

      Whether they were good,bad or ugly I don’t pretend to know.

      Trouble is, we elected them.

      And continue to do so.

      And they put forward suggestions and ideas to the UK govt, which are rejected.

      Doesn’t look good to me, that Scotland’s political representative government, ie the peoples’ choice (under D’Hont which was chosen for us) are ignored.

      What are we to think??

    108. Seumas Dynnocht says:

      Aye that’s the Scottish Nose Pickers telt. Do they no ken that some of us have been fechting the Thrid Scots War o Unthirldom syne the 1707 Anschluss.

    109. CameronB Brodie says:

      Cherry-picking and show-boating, IMHO.

    110. Ottomanboi says:

      Generally, Scots are a friendly and open people, qualities that those with bad intentions love to exploit.
      The English, particularly the London English are rather suspicious and sceptical of others.
      The first may be labeled as naïve, the second as a mark of cunning.
      Unfortunately national survival is not a charm contest. The success of the neighbour does tend to confirm that.
      I do hope the FM has cunningly secreted some good cards within her sleeves.
      The Scottish ‘Great Game’ will require more than simply skill.

    111. Gary45% says:

      Awe Fur Yin an Yin Fur Awe.
      An,a,ingin, an, awe.

    112. schrodingers cat says:

      Auld Rock says:
      28 January, 2020 at 6:00 pm
      In olden times we would have sent round ‘The Fiery Cross’

      dont see what harm it could do for us to do it now

    113. Unionist Media BDSM Club says:

      schrodingers cat says:
      28 January, 2020 at 5:35 pm

      Shambles of a site, impossible to register and support the petition.

      Did you manage it yourself?

    114. iain mhor says:

      Was just speaking to a lad from Manchester; he’s moving up to Scotland. Unfortunately, he can’t command the same wages up here. Funny thing is, he’s still moving. Apparently (and I’m informed on here today, this is utter nonsense) he’ll be a bit better off. Somehow (and Godaloneonlyknowshow) the cost of living is cheaper. He’s over the moon at his motorcycle and van insurance and no water rates. Seems that alone almost makes up for his reduced wages for a start.

      Anyway, seems he thought long and hard about it and crunched the numbers “No brainer mate” He did go on to spout more nonsense about why he was better moving – naturally, being better informed BTL here, I didn’t believe a word – wait til he works out he’s missed the fact he’ll be taxed higher than any one else in the UK…
      Seems I can shortly look forward to hurling abuse at him as he slinks back to Manchester – because (as I now know) like most Scots, I’m racist and quite anti-English – Though I might hold off ’til he’s finished the job of work he’s doing for me.

    115. North chiel says:

      The “ national television awards” , winner for the best new Britnat prescription “ propaganda drug” for the ( Scottish) masses . Keep taking the tablets .

    116. Armitage Shanks says:

      Is the document available ? A link would be appreciated. Thanks.

    117. Breeks says:

      Ian Brotherhood says:
      28 January, 2020 at 4:58 pm
      @Breeks –

      I’m not a sleuth and find it difficult to follow some of these ‘investigative’ reports, but that Campbell Martin film is clear and watchable…

      I’m not a sleuth either, but sometimes the corruption is so brazen you don’t have to be. Why no journalists? Well, first it’s hardly news because everybody knows it’s going on. Second, exposing it does nothing because there’s no effective method of bringing it to book. You cannot get the proof, but even when by some miracle you do get proof, all it reveals to you is how slippery and evasive your MP or MSP can be when confronted with proof which they’re supposed to do something about.

      There are so many scams and abuses of position constantly ongoing, that nobody can shop the other because they all know too much about each other’s scams. The whole culture is rotten.

      What Scotland needs is an anti-corruption unit, with real teeth, and authority to set up sting operations, undercover investigators and bait applications to expose just how rotten the system is, and get some of these wankers in jail. Not just embarrassed, because the brass neck on some of them… get the crooks sacked and in jail.

      At the moment, any poor person unhappy about anything will be blacklisted, and grassed up to other utilities for rates, tax inspections, or have their drinks licenses or planning applications put in jeopardy. I strongly suspect there is also creative collusion which goes on between agencies as they exchange favours and watch each other’s backs.

      Faith in the system? I have none. None. Rotten to core. Paying Council Tax feels like extortion money paid to crooks and sour faced jobsworths. It isn’t just Local Authorities either, because your quangos are just as dishonest in my experience, and don’t even waste a stamp on a fkg ombudsman. They’re even more useless than a politician, and just a corrupt as the racket they’re meant to be overseeing.

    118. CameronB Brodie says:

      Seeing as there’s a lull in the discussion, let’s take a closer look at how prejudice might shape social opportunities in Brexitania.

      Full text.

      Social Dominance Orientation, Prejudice and Discrimination : A New Computer-Based Method for Studying Discriminatory Behaviors.

      A number of studies have shown that the scale of social dominance orientation (SDO), used to measure the degree of preference for inequality among social groups, is a predictive measure of social and political attitudes toward stigmatized outgroups. However, the relationship between SDO and discrimination has received little attention.

      The main goal of this study was to assess the validity of a new computer-based method used to measure discriminatory behaviors in a laboratory setting. An additional goal was to test the mediating role of prejudice in the relation between SDO and discrimination. The results provide a first validation of this new method and demonstrate that the effect of SDO on discrimination is mediated by prejudice.

    119. Breeks says:

      The problem with an Ombudsman is that the Ombudsman knows very well the reason you’ve gone to an Ombudsman rather than straight to a lawyer is that you either cannot afford a lawyer, or you have insufficient proof to sue.

    120. kapelmeister says:

      England has just fought an epic four year battle because a majority of its people don’t wish to share one iota of sovereignty with the EU.

      But wait! Here’s Keir Starmer to tell us that same England would be amenable to federalism and London and Edinburgh having equal powers.

      Take a hike mister!

    121. CameronB Brodie says:

      And this is basically why I’m so hostile to the idea of British nationalism. Though I didn’t expect BoJo to go ‘full retard’ quite so soon.

      Full text

      Social Identity, System Justification, and Social Dominance: Commentary on Reicher, Jost et al., and Sidanius et al

      The articles by Reicher (2004), Jost, Banaji, and Nosek (2004), and Sidanius, Pratto, van Laar, and Levin (2004) discuss the strengths and weaknesses of social identity theory (Tajfel & Turner, 1979), system justification theory (Jost & Banaji, 1994), and social dominance theory (Sidanius, 1993). The latter two theories grew out of a critique of social identity theory, but this critique relates more to deficiencies in social identity research than to deficiencies in the theory itself.

      More balanced and comprehensive social identity research is required in order to allow a fair assessment of the theory’s limitations. In addition, Reicher (2004) and Huddy (2004) are correct that only social identity theory offers the potential for explaining social change and social stability.

    122. CameronB Brodie says:

      Rev. Stu
      Sorry, I don’t mean to flood the conversation. That one your holding is quite instructive, as an introduction to Social Identity Theory anyway, so it would be appreciated if you could release it, when convenient. TA if so.

    123. JBB says:

      A link to the actual proposal that was rejected would be useful, does anyone have one?

      As to the idea of differing immigration rules, and absent the detail, surely that would entail checks (be it passport, visa, or something else) at all England / Scotland border crossings.

      So checks on the train at Berwick, and Carlisle, the restoration of the bar at the Carter Bar, some facilities on the East and West road links, plus additional facilities at the handful of minor crossings?

    124. solarflare says:

      Pete says:
      28 January, 2020 at 6:19 pm
      Okay, a few simple questions on the basis that an independence poll comes about.
      CBB wants me to have an open mind so let’s have straight answers.
      What currency will an independent currency have?
      What conditions have the EU put on Scotland rejoining (I presume this will have been explored)?
      How will the tax regime of an independent Scotland differ from the Uk.
      Will there be border posts with England.
      What will be the immigration policy with non-eu countries (assuming we will be in the EU)
      These are just a few simple questions that voters will require to be answered.
      Please no profanities.”

      Not that these shouldn’t factor in an independence campaign, but the UK is just about to leave the EU after a referendum campaign where no one thought trying to answer this kind of question was worth it.

      And even if they did it would have been largely irrelevant as the reality post EU-referendum was not anything like the reality pre-EU referendum just purely in the sense that the negotiations came down to whomever was in charge after the dust settled.

    125. Dan says:

      @iain mhor at 7:58 pm

      Aye, if that lad from Manchester has a bike of any sort, riding it in Scotland will be an opportunity to see some of Scotland’s fantastic scenery.

      Also responded to you on last thread for what my input is worth (probably negligible in the political realm because I didnae go to Uni…)

    126. manandboy says:

      Five years ago, no one on these islands had any idea of what has happened since.

      For the same reason, I’d wager no one in Scotland or in the rest of the UK has any idea as to exactly what is going to happen over the next five days never mind the next five years.

      The tides won’t go any faster.

      Scotland will be wise to bide its time.

    127. McDuff says:

      Why doesn’t the SNP constantly and very firmly remind Westminster that there is no democracy for Scotland within the UK given the huge English pop and their vast number of MPs.
      We have no rights under this dictatorship and its now quite clear that England controls Scotland and intends to absorb it as part of Greater England.
      It is time the gloves come off.

    128. Morgatron says:

      Just read the Fishermen are getting sold out by their mates down south – hopefully they get well and truly fucked over, right up their kipper mousse! They deserve every bit of shit that comes their way, selfish , self centred and Tory supporting gits. Phew! Feel better.

    129. Kenny J says:

      “Stoker says:
      28 January, 2020 at 2:30 pm

      To anyone in The SNP hierarchy who may be reading this: Is there a game of let’s see who blinks first before Friday going on here?”

      Well, Keith Brown told me,at Bannockburn after his wee, in a personal capacity, you understand, cos I asked him, speech what Plan B wis.
      No need, quoth he, this during was May’s time remember, I quote ” they will blink first”.
      So there, that’s you telt, the unconvinced.
      Nor would he acknowledge Citizen Tommy, who gave a damned fine speech. Stood a few yards away from him, with a Nelson eye.

    130. Elmac says:

      Re McDuff @ 9.33

      As far as I am concerned the SNP have until close of business on 31 January to do something positive, failing which the subs will come off instead of the gloves for a family of five. We will then be looking for an alternative vehicle to take us to independence. I suspect we will not be alone.

      Get your complacent arses into gear and remember why we voted for you in the first place!

    131. McDuff says:


      We know what you are.
      The only domestic news we get nationally is English. It is a sorry tale of out of control crime, Social Service failures, failing NHS, etc,etc,etc,etc. You drone on about traffic in Edinburgh, have you ever been York or London or Manchester.
      AS for infrastructure, almost all of that was in the hands of Labour and the Tories for sixty years yet you blame the SNP.
      And Scotland is paying for English infrastructure in the shape of Crossrail and HS2, you know, that’s the train that will service England only.
      Your `loyalties` are not towards Scotland and everyone on here knows it.

    132. manandboy says: (The Guardian)


      “Fact from fiction: Finland’s new lessons in combating fake news
      Everyone from primary school pupils to politicians is being taught how to spot slippery information”

      “The goal is active, responsible citizens and voters,” Kivinen said. “Thinking critically, factchecking, interpreting and evaluating all the information you receive, wherever it appears, is crucial. We’ve made it a core part of what we teach, across all subjects.”

      The gulf between Finland and England re Lying, is like day and night. Right up to not being allowed to use the word ‘liar’ in the House of Commons. How convenient for PMJohnson whose conduct and grievous plans for the UK public have to be kept hidden from view. Then lied about.

    133. Stoker says:

      @ Kenny J on 28 January, 2020 at 9:51 pm

      🙂 Cheers! 🙂

    134. sassenach says:


      My family feel exactly the same, 31st is deadline day for SNP in our household – and we have a photo of my wife, arm in arm with Nicola on our shelf – so we will give her one last chance, then the photo comes down and subs cancelled.

      But I will not make guesses beforehand about her plans. Wait and see, is OUR plan for Friday!!

    135. Elmac says:

      Re manandboy @ 10.01

      I have a solution. Ian Blackford, as leader of the SNP contingent in the house of ill repute, should stand up and call out a list of the major lies Johnson and his cronies have perpetrated and brand them unequivocally as liars. The speaker will then ask him to retract which he should refuse on the grounds that the truth is the truth. All of the SNP MPs should then accompany Blackford when he is instructed to leave the chamber. Thereafter all SNP MPs should be recalled to Holyrood and the 1707 treaty revoked.

      All hell will break loose but by god it will be worth it! I would gladly live on neeps and tatties for a few years to see the back of this blood sucking scum who think they own us.

    136. Stoker says:

      Breeks wrote: “What Scotland needs is an anti-corruption unit, with real teeth, and authority to set up sting operations, undercover investigators and bait applications to expose just how rotten the system is, and get some of these wankers in jail. Not just embarrassed, because the brass neck on some of them…”

      Aye! Our very own Elliot Nessie.

      Seriously, folks, i agree but i wouldn’t go expecting The SNP to go setting up anything as helpful as that. After-all, if they were that way inclined they would have done it many years ago but not one single SNP leader, as far as i know, has ever even mentioned it. Ever!

    137. Anon says:

      Wasn’t T. May immigration minister for a a few years and didn’t she basically have no strategy to design UK immigration to what was needed, fair, and decent. She had no real desire to control numbers, then the Tories all went a bit ‘oh no too many immigrants’, taking all your jobs and benefits and healthcare. Divide and rule tactic. Easy peasy, Britnat Brexit in the bag, woohoo!

      Scotland without immigration powers is at the mercy of whatever England decides they want or don’t want. Scotland is royally screwed, going to be haemorrhaging talented young people, EU citizens leaving in their droves, while the older folk from England see a land of opportunity for good healthcare, cleaner air, cheaper houses. Not good cor economy, not good for demographics. Bye bye Scotland, you are ruined for the foreseeable future, thanks no voters.

    138. CameronB Brodie says:

      That’s the sort of thing I’ve been trying to encourage.

      Full text

      Empowerment and Critical Consciousness:
      A Conceptual Cross-Fertilization

    139. Dr Jim says:

      All we see from the British Nationalist Tories now is provocation after provocation, where have we seen this tactic before, and how many times

    140. TJenny says:

      Do the fisher folk know that they, as voters, have the right to recall their MPs?

      This petition (to recall an MP) is successful if at least one in ten voters in the constituency sign.

      It might be their sole option, as they’ve been done up like kippers.
      They need more action and less carping.
      They’re between a rock (salmon) and a hard plaice.

      Think I may have jumped the shark here.

      I’ll get ma coat. 😉

    141. Elmac says:

      Re T Jenny @ 10.42

      Good job you typed that out – I am a bit hard of herring.

    142. TJenny says:

      Elmac – Hee, hee, aye, I’m a dab hand at the typing.

    143. Katie says:

      Keir Starmer on Scotland Tonight! Next prime minister? Hahahahaha! What a joke the Labour party is now!!! Who the hell does he think he is!!!

    144. Effijy says:

      UK media trying to SNP projects are not value for money?

      How about Labour’s PFI Disaster with astronomic interest rates and walls collapsing around our school kids. How about Edinburgh Trams miles thru the budget for half a network?
      Any one for their Holyrood build at 12 times the budget?

      Maybe you would like to look at the Tories Hiring ship for vast sums from a Tory supporter with no ships or maybe their high speed train link that is going faster thru its budget than the trains they hope to build.

    145. Stoker says:

      @ Elmac on 28 January, 2020 at 10:15 pm:

      Now yer talkin’ ma language. This is the sort of leadership i like and respect.

      So far all NS has shown me is that she’s not the firebrand i thought she’d be. Fair enough, that’s fine and that appeals to some folk, i know there’s many different ways to skin the beast but i prefer to use sharp knifes not blunt ones.

      I’ve detested the softly softly approach ever since i worked out, as a nipper, that the children’s fable The Tortoise & The Hair was a croc-o-crap. And i was correct because in all this time i’ve yet to see a tortoise beating a hare. 😉

      Friday can’t come quick enough. It is still Friday isn’t it? Or has ‘plan-B’ put it back to Wednesday?

    146. TJenny says:

      Maybe the fisher folk need a big fish to fight their battles, like, oh, I don’t know, maybe a sturgeon?

    147. Old Pete says:

      Declare Independence at 11:59pm on Friday while we are still in the EU which might get Boris and the English Tory government and the Scottish ("Tractor" - Ed)s a wee surprise. The SNP did promise we wouldn’t be leaving the EU did they not ? Maybe the EU would welcome us with open arms and recognise our Independence.

      I am allowed to hope ?

    148. Elmac says:

      Your puns bring back memories. Lived in Hong Kong for many years and often ate at a restaurant where Whole King Sole was a very popular dish. We always asked for Old King Cole and the waiters were none the wiser. Lovely people, so honest, loyal and hard working. My heart bleeds for their current difficulties.

    149. Dan says:

      OT Further observations of the human species in the form of a tale of two world record long jumps.

      Women’s WR 7.52m
      Galina Chistyakova 1988

      Men’s WR 8.95m
      Mike Powell 1991

      8.95 – 7.52 = 1.43*

      *This number has some sort of relevance as it highlights an apparent discrepancy in the maximum distances ever jumped by a man and a woman.

    150. TJenny says:

      Old Pete – I too am hoping for that or something equally inspiring. ‘Cause, aye, we always have to have hope.

    151. Phronesis says:

      that the sovereign who makes the laws cannot be bound by the laws he makes (majestas est summa in cives ac subditos ligisbusque solute potestas)

      Unchain the sovereign who is not an infallible oracle and neither is any member of her government with their over- inflated sense of self belief and entitlement. The British State’s divide and rule strategy and irredentist policies towards Scotland, the country, will spectacularly backfire under the full glare of the world stage. Anyone who is a democrat will engage fully with the inevitability of Scotland’s Independence. The constituent nations as equal partners, able to function fully independently of each other is a normal feature of modern, balanced democracies that find themselves in a healthier state.

    152. Dan says:

      OT Even further observations of the human species in the form of two world record javelin throws.

      Women’s WR 72.28m
      Barbora Špotáková 2008

      Men’s WR 98.48m
      Jan Železný 1996

      98.48 – 72.28 = 26.20*

      *This number has some sort of relevance as it highlights an apparent discrepancy in the maximum distances a javelin has ever been thrown by a man and a woman.

    153. jfngw says:

      Looks like the SFF fishermen are going to find out ‘throwing a sprat to catch a mackerel’ refers to them. I would like to feel sorry for them but I basically don’t give a F.

      Maybe I’ll frame one of these celebratory 50p pieces, just need a title, maybe The Personification of Hubris.

    154. Az says:

      Pete, 28 January, 2020 at 3:32 pm

      Who wants to come to a country with higher tax rates for the higher qualified?
      Remember the Laffer curve.

      Anyone citing the “Laffer Curve” knows nothing, NOTHING about economics. The Laffer Curve has been debunked many, many times.

    155. Kangaroo says:

      EU Ratification day today.

      So the Brexit MEPs will vote and cheer as they do so. They will feel exhilaration for a couple of days and a big celebration on Friday night with one Gammon Tory MP having a party in “Margaret Thatcher House” with English wine and beer. No foreign stuff you see.

      So why did Nicola move the response ’till Friday?

      IMHO it was to let them show off this elation, plan their big parties and get wound up. Let them leave the chambers of the EU Parliament and head home, calmly.

      Why did she not respond to Bojo when she received the S30 rejection, as she new this was highly likely and would have had a response preprepared?

      Answer: this space left blank intentionally.

    156. Dr Jim says:

      Those fisher folk’ll be told to know their Plaice

    157. Dr Jim says:

      All the stuff Boris Johnson took credit for when he was Mayor of London he lied about, even the so called Boris Bike wasn’t his idea it was Ken Livingston’s plan and Johnson just stole it, I also found out when Ken Livingston called Johnson a liar to his face Johnson grabbed Livingston and slammed him up against a wall

    158. William Wallace says:

      @ IanB 4:58pm.

      Following your recommendation (thanks for drawing attention to it) I have just finished watching “The only game in town” (part 1 and 2).

      I am completely shocked at the level of collusion and corruption that has taken place here. I always knew there was a whiff of scandal around the whole PFI/PPP affair but, this investigative documentary was a real eye opener in helping to break it down.

      What is of even greater concern is that it is merely the tip of the iceberg. There needs to be a full and thorough investigation into the entire process in every local authority in Scotland (and indeed the UK as a whole) in my view. There should also be a serious investigation into Police Scotland themselves with regard to their handling of the original investigation and subsequent request by North Ayrshire council to re-investigate the matter more recently.

      The whole thing absolutely stinks.

      Nice one for posting it and trying to raise awareness. It certainly opened my eyes.

    159. twathater says:

      @ Ian B 4.58pm Ian thanks for that link I watched part 1 and was disgusted so part 2 only infuriated me more , I agree with William Wallace there should be a thorough investigation of police Scotland’s handling of the situation as their responses were questionable if not suspicious

      As breeks and others have stated we DESPERATELY NEED independence not only to rid ourselves of our PARASITICAL neighbour but to REBUILD our country from the ground up , to address the corruption within all spheres of our public services and to ensure that those engaged in said corruption face the wrath of the public .

      Labour officials of all walks participated enthusiastically in the corruption and brown envelopes for decades , hence the destruction in Scotland we witness every day , we have to ensure that this will NEVER be allowed to happen again

    160. twathater says:

      A great video by Phantom Power this should be a SNP PPB

    161. Breeks says:

      North chiel says:
      28 January, 2020 at 8:12 pm
      The “ national television awards” , winner for the best new Britnat prescription “ propaganda drug” for the ( Scottish) masses . Keep taking the tablets .

      The BritNat separatists have always enjoyed patting themselves on the back, giving themselves awards for the ‘privilege’ of calling their shite ‘award winning’.

      It was modelled on their honours system I think…

    162. Breeks says:

      twathater says:
      29 January, 2020 at 3:57 am
      A great video by Phantom Power this should be a SNP PPB

      I’d aim higher.

      Just imagine if Phantom Power was putting these excellent clips regularly on mainstream TV. Scotland could and should be sponsoring Phantom Power to produce a whole documentary series about Scotland’s predicament and seeing it sold abroad to foreign countries and their governments so they know what they’re dealing with when negotiating with Westminster.

      They won’t just get some tacky TV award, they’ll see their efforts rewarded with the restoration of their Sovereign Nation, as Scotland removes the hood its been forced to wear for 300 years.

      Phantom Power started out excellent, and they’ve just got better and better.

      When we are Independent, IF there remains a troublesome vestige of Unionism, Phantom Power Media will be in the front line when they need the extent of their BritNat indoctrination made clear to them. The greatest enemy of propaganda is the truth, and Phantom Power makes the truth shine.

    163. Breeks says:

      Don’t be too hard on Fisher folk.

      I have a theory that many Fisher folks aren’t all that different from Country Estate folks, and Scottish Army and Navy folks, and a lot of Border folk too.

      Propaganda isn’t just on our TV. These folks are getting daily input from their employers who pay their wages that Scottish Independence is the Devil’s work. The doubts in their mind get re-sown every other day, and the anti-Scottish rhetoric is amplified and resonates when it’s repeated. If you like, the “haves” are staunchly BritNational, and Independence supporters are often the “have nots”, and it feels Indy is an uphill struggle with the state backing the haves. That actually isn’t that far wrong.

      Don’t be too hard on them or get all judgemental. What’s going on in their heads isn’t all that different from an ordinary Scot seeking a quiet life under a clan chieftain… It wasn’t so long ago the vast bulk of our Nation was under that very spell, voting Labour,… and it certainly wasn’t the little guy’s fault. These folks are not your hate spewing Orange Order types. They’re pro Union, yes, for now, but not fat bellend racists who feed their dogs on dead catholics.

      I know I’m a million miles from impartiality, but I truly do wonder whether Scotland has anything to fear from bold decisive action on Independence, and I mean much stronger than proposing a referendum. I think these folks need to see a show of strength by Scotland, not a lame and anaemic invitation to join, that is so very easy to decline.

      I don’t hold out much hope for Friday. Nicola still as all her faith invested in a referendum that to my thinking only works in her head. She is surrounded by party faithful and SNP cheerleaders who all preach undying faith and blind belief. That’s like a suffocating and blinding toxin to a cynical old bastard like me.

      Instead I think we need an all out, go for broke, decisive Constitutional strike in a completely different theatre of the war, and we need it in 48 hours. At the barest minimum, nothing short of formally disputing UK Westminster Sovereignty will suffice, and I would go much further than that.

      Sadly, I fear myself and Nicola have a very different understanding of the word ‘radical’.

    164. Craig Murray says:


      “Sadly, I fear myself and Nicola have a very different understanding of the word ‘radical’.”

      Indeed. But then you don’t have a family income over £300,000 a year plus free housing, utilities and expenses.

    165. Martin says:

      On a related but slightly off topic, I have emailed the PM commending him on his commitment to politicians holding to their promises re section 30 and “once in a generation.” I also asked how his party colleagues responded when he advised them the Conservative party would not stand at the next election, as the previous one was a “once in a generation opportunity” to get a conservative government.

    166. Kangaroo says:

      @Breeks & Craig Murray

      Its all very well to be cynical about NS position on indy. My view is simple, if she doesn’t go for broke with a “Red Comyn” moment on Friday then we need to do it instead by taking action to #DissolveTheUnion with immediate effect. I believe there is a cast iron case to do so, but without Nicola doing it IMHO we would need to fund a court case in an international court.

    167. Almond Chutney says:

      I’m beginning to like you lot, although just to confirm I’m not a racist, so prove that I am.

      and ahundredthidiot, a hundredth idiot indeed

    168. Stoker says:

      @ Martin on 29 January, 2020 at 8:31 am

      Good one! The reply, if you get one, will be interesting. 🙂

    169. Breeks says:

      Craig Murray says:
      29 January, 2020 at 8:27 am

      Indeed. But then you don’t have a family income over £300,000 a year plus free housing, utilities and expenses.

      But would that crumble to dust after Independence?

      … unless you don’t believe in delivering Indepe…. oh.

      No… Don’t say it Craig. That would make her a monster, infamous for all time. Scotland’s Benedict Arnold, standing head and shoulders over Scotland’s infamous Parcel of Rogues in the 18th Century. Every statue Scotland has of William Wallace would weep.

    170. Ottomanboi says:

      Looks like Scotland will be independent when British lawyers give their approval.
      Little wonder there is discontent with the ‘democracy’ on offer.

    171. Tatu3 says:

      Craig Murray @ 8.27 miaow!

    172. Colin Alexander says:

      Is today the day the FM asks Holyrood to vote to declare itself, the Supreme Parliament for Scotland. The parliament that represents and exercises Scottish sovereign power on behalf of the common sovereignty of the people of Scotland?

      Devolution: We’ll devolve some powers to WM and work with UK Govt till indy is declared.

      Scotland Act: binned.

      House of Lords: sacked.

      House of Commons: sacked as a parliament for Scotland.

      Crown in Parliament: Queen Betty is welcome to visit if she shows respect for Scottish democracy and Scottish sovereignty
      (never too late to turn over a new leaf, even for tyrants.)

      Of course it won’t happen but, it’s a nice thought of what COULD be done, if the will was there.

    173. Stoker says:

      So Nicola Sturgeon is to ask MSP’s to support indyref later this year. Aye! That’s right! Again!

    174. SilverDarling says:

      I agree Breeks, it depends on your perspective.

      The message being hammered home is that Scotland under the SNP is a mess just now and if independent would be a bigger mess. Brexit was a mess because it was handled badly by the UK government but they are the only people capable of handling such important stuff…!

      As Westminster MPS are the SNP’s most frequent representatives on UK wide TV, they get this stuff thrown in their faces. They do not deal with the minutiae day in day out like the MSPs so they are often on the backfoot.

      Always this fudging of Devolved and Reserved.

      It plays into fears and if you have a superficial relationship with politics and the BBC and the Daily Record are your source of info. You are afraid. You will see England and Wales NHS headlines and believe that is YOUR health service under the SNP. Your children are grown up but you believe the children coming through the Scottish system are illiterate and innumerate because cherry picking stats and PISA says so.

      Social Media amplifies your fears. Darren Grimes, the young Brexit stooge who is now a mainstream commentator(!) tweeted some guff about Scotland and there was barely a contradictory reply, so fixed in the psyche is the Scotland is rubbish mantra now.

      If only the SNP could stand up in Westminster and rattle off the failings of the NHS, Education etc in the UK with the comparative figures in Scotland and be heard but they still maintain this defensive stance.

      Friday will shape our destiny in so many ways in Scotland.

    175. Kangaroo says:

      EU Ratification

      There are still some steps to go
      a) EU Parliament vote sometime after 18:00hrs today,
      b) the Council of the EU must give final approval, and

      before the Agreement can come into force both the UK and EU must have given written notification to the Secretary General of the Council who is the officer in charge of the depositary of the Agreement. This notification must confirm that both parties have completed their necessary internal procedures for ratification.

      Seems like the procedures are sufficiently detailed and complex for things to go wrong. So Nicola must wait until Friday before outlining the next steps for indy2, otherwise she may run into legal difficulties. A good reason to move her response to Friday.

    176. Breeks says:

      Scotland on Friday needs a show of strength that ISN’T bluster and waffle.

      Scotland’s political landscape isn’t going to change in 48 hours.

      Friday’s show of strength HAS to be Constitutional, and has to assert sovereignty. If not to assert Scottish Sovereignty ascendant, then at the bare minimum, deny Westminster that ascendancy.

      In my opinion, it has come to this. There is no other way.

    177. Ottomanboi says:

      Is there a radical tendency within the SNP?
      Has the irrational fixation with gender, diversity, inclusivity & suchlike effectively unsexed, emasculated, neutered the lot of them?

    178. Bill McLean says:

      Sorry all o/t – Elmac at 1121pm – lived in HK (Ho Man Tin – Kowloon the first time – later Staley) for many years too. Loved it and the people – they could show us something about work. Really sad that they are in the state they are in. The 2nd time I was there in the late 60s when they were rioting against their colonial masters – not pleasant!

    179. Gary45% says:

      Lisa Nandy phone in on LBC James O’Brien at the moment.
      Catalan comment anyone?

    180. cirsium says:

      @twathater, 3.58

      That is one scary Phantom Power video. Thanks for posting it.

    181. Colin Alexander says:


      So, the SNP/ FM will wait until AFTER the EU Parliament has ratified Brexit and all procedures have completed, so there’s only the final Brexit point at 11pm on Friday?

      So, what happened to: “Scotland did not vote to leave and we will not be dragged out of the European Union against our will. We will not remain strapped to the sinking ship”…Let me say that we on these Benches will not allow our nation to be dragged out of Europe into the abyss”.

      To be fair to Mr Blackford, that’s arguably not a lie, as Scotland has not been dragged. So far, under the SNP, it has complied with just some girnin and greetin, even OFFERING to actively facilitate Brexit, especially when the FM OFFERED PM MAY a deal that the SNP could help negotiate a “Soft Brexit” deal.

      For Scotland an SNP attempt at an “eleventh hour reprieve” would be too late. Brexit will have occured at 11pm GMT Friday 31 January 2020.

    182. Republicofscotland says:

      So Labours front runner in the leadership contest Sir Keith Starmer, has said that if the SNP gain a majority in the 2021 elections that should be enough for a indy mandate.

      Jeez, how many more mandates do we need, Starmer who’s not in government and is unlikely to be so in the near future is like any other Westminster MP, adding his tuppence worth on Scotland’s democratic right to choose its own future.

      We don’t require anymore mandates we have plenty what we require is the for Johnson to to stop denying Scots the democratic right to a referendum.

      I do hope Sturgeon announces something new and refreshing that will move us closer to holding a referendum with regards to independence on Friday.

    183. Golfnut says:

      @ Kangeroo.

      Well said, Westminster has no where to go once its ratified by the EU.

      @ Breeks

      I agree, Nicola must come out fighting, Scotland expects.

      @ Ottomanboi

      Desperate waffle indeed from our media, British legal opinion must come from total f#ckwits who are completely unaware of the UK submission to the ICJ regarding Kosovo or are just plain liars for hire.

    184. manandboy says:

      Gordon Ross in his car studio yesterday made some very interesting points, one of which in particular I had failed to work out, which is – that on this Friday, the UK is no longer a member of the EU and therefore the protocol of not getting involved in a member state’s internal arrangements no longer applies to the UK.
      This means quite obviously that the EU is free to advise and support Scotland in all things EU, including the undemocratic refusal by Westminster to agree to an Article 30 request. The EU is unlikely to tolerate that refusal, especially with Trade Talks imminent.

      The effective relegation of the UK to the ‘Third Country League’ changes everything. No wonder Nicola has been biding her time and playing her cards very close to her chest. But all the frustration and no little amount of rather heavy criticism will all be forgotten if Nicola is proved to have got her strategy right. I myself will be among the first to apologise for my own impatience and frustration.

      Pressure changes some people, while it is the making of others.

      Worth a listen alright.

    185. Republicofscotland says:

      It might seem a bit trival or petty, I but I hope the EU flag keeps flying at Holyrood after Friday. More so now that the Greens/EFA group held a candlelit vigil in the EU parliament, symbolising leaving a light on for Scotland to find its way back into the EU. Which we must do.

      Unlike Westminster, we have friends in the EU, who care about Scotland.

    186. Colin Alexander says:

      Let’s no forget that 11pm on Friday means many devolved powers being reserved to WM and WM can overrule / ignore the Scottish Parliament on everything else.

      This is despite the promises of Home Rule and Devo to the Max during Indyref1 forming a promised constitutional revolution for Scotland if Scotland voted No.

      If Scotland is indeed sovereign, why can’t action be taken BY SCOTLAND to enforce those promises (and the manifesto mandates obtained by the SNP), irrespective of whether Scotland ever agrees with the principle that Scotland should be an independent country?

      It’s time people stopped thinking of indyref and independence like Abracadabra, obsessing on these to the exclusion of all other means of asserting sovereignty and democratic rights for Scotland.

      It’s time the SNP gave up their love affair for devolution and Sewel Convention. Though cushy jobs for life for talking shite and pressing buttons must be a hard thing to give up.

    187. manandboy says:

      On Friday at 23.00hrs, Scotland will be sailing with the tide.

      It is clear now that the tide has been against us all this time.

      All hands on deck, Friday 23.01 hrs.

      There’s a country waiting to be relaunched.

      Hail Caesar!.

    188. manandboy says:

      Hail Caesar! – oops. Sorry, Rev.

    189. manandboy says:

      On Friday at 23.00hrs, Scotland will be sailing with the tide.

      It is clear now that the tide has been against us all this time.

      All hands on deck, Friday 23.01 hrs.

      There’s a country waiting to be relaunched.

      Freedom for Scotland.

    190. Annie 621 says:

      Mist001., It deeply saddens me to agree with you.

    191. Breeks says:

      manandboy says:
      29 January, 2020 at 11:43 am
      Gordon Ross in his car studio yesterday made some very interesting points, one of which in particular I had failed to work out, which is – that on this Friday, the UK is no longer a member of the EU and therefore the protocol of not getting involved in a member state’s internal arrangements no longer applies to the UK

      Not convinced that 100% right. The EU cannot interfere with a nation’s internal affairs because that is the sovereign jurisdiction of the nation, not the EU, irrespective of whether the nation is an EU member or not.

    192. manandboy says:

      ‘Leaving a light on for you’.


    193. manandboy says:

      Who said ‘interfere’?

    194. Effijy says:

      Radio Clyde Propaganda on the news this morning.
      Presenter puts forward that are asking people around the country
      what they think of Brexit.

      Before I can get to a bookmaker or devil to put my life savings and soul on it being a rabbit Unionist Brexiteer-

      Low and behold, very angry at these Scots who think Brexit will change anything? UK will trade just as normal and all this scaremongering must be stopped.

      Well there you have it. No benefit of being in the world’s largest trading market, just as well off with no trade deals made.

      Trump will come to the rescue and put England first over America.
      You can trust in Donald who is about to be impeached.

      While I’m on my high horse, Trump has decided with his Israeli
      friends that the United Nations are worthless in trying to deal with the Palestinian situation so he is calling all the shots now.

      Israel can keep the stolen land taken from them in the war of’67
      They will have Jerusalem to themselves even though it is a holy place to the Palestinians for hundreds of years.

      Israel will still have full control over any Palestinian government decisions, very like England over Scotland, Israel will control Palestinian Air Space, Ports and Borders.

      In return for giving so much up, the Palestinians will be called a “State”, but not really be one.

      Strangely neither the United Nations nor Palestine seem to be happy with these proposals.

      Wonder is Boris used Scotland as an example for Trump to take forward?

      Anyway nice if a wee war with an unarmed nation held captive could help Trump and Netanyahu to be re-elected??

      Outrageous Disgrace!

    195. iain mhor says:

      @Dan 9:30pm

      I caught your reply at the tail of the last thread, thanks.
      For disclosure, I do not have a Uni education either, but I do have diplomas and a rake of various certifications. Again, there is no derogation about a Uni education on my part.

      I never did find anymore than five candidates not in those listed categories – with perhaps the same number I had no information for. The odds suggest most of them would have fallen into those categories also.

      Personally, I thought barely 5% of political candidates falling out with the listed categories was quite astonishing and I had not expected to unearth that at all. Amongst them, I could find merely one single candidate who had been a SMB owner and employer. There were a couple of police, a fireman and an employee of an electrical company.

      I’ll also admit that including Social/voluntary work appears a harsh bias – especially as those sectors are often at the very coal face of society. That inclusion, was to factor that the majority I was finding, were (to be diplomatic) perhaps not so much in that type of environment. It can (and frequently did) involve ‘internship’ to politicians for example…
      I will allow, available biographies and info may be incomplete, I certainly didn’t have everyones CV!

      As for ‘teaching’ professions; as the partner of a EYP nursery teacher, I can vouch for their work ethic and professionalism certainly – although, there is a great degree of getting telt involved – “I’m no one of the weans” is a regular refrain of mine ?

      I did wonder at my findings overall and perhaps, across the professions, there is an element of ‘Instructing’ in the way things will be, as opposed to what perhaps the electorate actually wants’. A bias against adapting to needs, for imposing will.
      Ultimately, maybe that is what society, as a whole, does need – instruction, guidance, structure – laudable qualities of government certainly. It is when that becomes at odds with what society demands, that friction occurs.

    196. Republicofscotland says:

      It’s interestting to note that Norway’s new Oil and Energy minister Tina Bru, is investing Norway’s trillion pounds plus sovereign wealth fund into renewable forms of energy, such as solar parks and wind farms.

      Scots can only dream of what we could’ve accomplished for our people, and maybe those less fortunate, if we had an oil fund set aside all those years ago. Alas Westminster squandered that particular future for Scots.

      One wonders for how much longer Westminster will drain our resources, before we manage to escape this unfit for purpose union.

    197. Bill McLean says:

      R of S 1225 – Don’t tell me she has a brother …… I suppose you will have guessed his name? Coat on –off!

    198. Colin Alexander says:

      Nicola Sturgeon’s motion to the Scottish Parliament:

      Nicola Sturgeon, Motion: S5M-20615:

      “That the Parliament recognises the sovereign right of the people of Scotland to determine the form of government best suited to their needs;

      agrees with the cross-party Smith Commission report published after the 2014 referendum and backed by the UK Government that “nothing in this report prevents Scotland becoming an independent country in the future should the people of Scotland so choose”;

      recognises that there has been a material change in circumstances since 2014 and that a referendum should be held so that the people of Scotland can decide whether they wish it to become an independent country, and calls on the UK Government to reach an agreement with the Scottish Government on such a referendum taking place on a date and in a manner determined by the Scottish Parliament, which the Scottish Government proposes should take place in 2020″.

    199. Colin Alexander says:

      Here is the Imperial Parties amendments to Sturgeon’s motion:
      if you can be bothered to read any more of their pefidious shite:

    200. robertknight says:

      Colin @1:14…

      Please tell me you made up that little lot for want of something to do…

    201. Colin Alexander says:


      Sorry, it’s all true.

      Check the timetable for today and it lists the motions.

    202. Republicofscotland says:

      Watching BBC lunchtime news regarding Enlish and Welsh affairs, we see and hear information that we wouldn’t normally know about.

      Such as thousands of seriously patients waiting over an hour for an ambulance, some dying in the process, or that Northern rail trains only hit 56% of their target times, and that they’re so overcrowded that eight people often squeeze into the toilets just to get aboard the train.

      I fail to see how the UK government will improve the above by leaving the EU, on the contrary losing EU rights and laws will only exacerbate the problems in my opinion.

    203. Colin Alexander says:

      No declaration of a Supreme Parliament, no assertion of sovereignty being exercised.

      More of the Smith Commission pish.

      More of the mealy-mouthed “recognises” pish talk.

      Oh dear. Very disappointing.

      At least I’ve tried to break it to youse gently.

    204. robertknight says:

      So that’s it…

      That’s the sum total of three years of knowing we’re being railroaded out the EU and that Westminster would tell us to go whistle if we had the audacity to beg for another referendum?

      A motion in Parliament; ten minutes work for three folk jotted down on a napkin in the member’s café?

      Oh FFS…

      I take it we can expect nothing more substantial because she’s far too busy doing the ‘day job’?

    205. Colin Alexander says:

      “referendum should be held” NOT, “will be held”.

      I’m away noo before I greet.

    206. Dorothy Devine says:

      V for Vendetta is on Sony movies on Friday at 9 p.m – just thought I’d mention it.

    207. robertknight says:

      I’ve just read it again for the sake of disbelief…

      “calls on the UK Government to reach an agreement with the Scottish Government on such a referendum taking place on a date and in a manner determined by the Scottish Parliament, which the Scottish Government proposes should take place in 2020”.

      Did someone not bother to tell her BawJaws has already said “No”!

      Is she so delusional that she thinks that because he said “No” to the democratically elected and appointed Scottish Government, he’ll suddenly change his mind and say “Yes” to the Scottish Parliament by virtue of the Greens voting with the SNP?

      Utterly ridiculous!

      What’s that common definition of insanity? Repeat the same action in the hope of achieving a different result?

      I expect to see men in white coats and yellow vans lined up outside Holyrood anytime soon.

      Someone wake me up – I must be dreaming.

    208. iain mhor says:

      Thanks for the links @Colin Alexander
      Yeah, those amendments: ‘remove all from “That the Parliament…” – insert ‘Scotland is shite, take a telling, God save the Queen!’ lol.
      Same old same old.

    209. Dr Jim says:

      England must be forced to declare ownership of Scotland, the land the people and all of its properties


    210. iain mhor says:

      i still think an option would be to hold a referendum on whether to hold a referendum, to quote Joanna Cherry QC:

      “…the power to hold a referendum resides at Westminster…simply isn’t the case. The weight of legal opinion is that the Scotland Act is open to a different interpretation”

      If the question of holding a direct referendum on a ‘constitutional issue’ being reserved (or within competence) or not, is ‘open to interpretation’ – then a referendum merely asking if such a direct referendum should be held, must be of a lesser constitutional status and therefore even more contestable – as it is not directly a plebiscite for Independence – only an actual Indyref would be.

      It settles the ‘the people of Scotland don’t want an Indyref’ claim (canny put that shit in amnedments ha) and if won, places Westminster in a cleft stick.
      For they would either have to fly the argument they have the power to prevent such a question (highly contestable and would require an even wider interpretation of the relevent Scotland Act) or they must not recognise the result of such a referendum (too much precedence for recognition) or they must accept it. Then they must accept the result (if positive) but then somehiw deny the consequent implementation of the direct Indyref… for reasons.

      Dems my two cents.

    211. Chic McGregor says:

      Hope you are all buying AR’s ‘Ode to Joy’ to keep it at no 1 in the i tunes chart for Bidet.

    212. jockmcx says:

      Breeks 07.52am
      it certainly wasn’t the little guy’s fault!

      Yes it was, they voted labour for a free lavvy brush.

      They are here now insisting the snp are wearing the wrong

    213. sassenach says:

      Joanne Cherry giving a great speech, straight after PMQs today, about Scots crime statistics, and attacking Bojo about his constant putting down of Scotland’s public services (She even hit the Minister with “Facts are cheils that winna ding”.

      Next leader if Friday is a damp squib?

    214. Breeks says:

      So how do we go about ditching a Devolved Assembly and clearing the pitch for a properly sovereign Scottish Government?

      Impeachment? Some kind of non military coup? I’m at a loss frankly. I joked about burning it to the ground.

      Fucked if I’m ever voting for the Westminster Toady Party.

      It’s unprecedented. When has there ever been a Party allegedly standing for Independence, handed a Scottish Parliamentary outright majority that was meant to be impossible, returned 56 out of 59 MP’s sent to Westminster, was handed unstoppable YES momentum on a plate after the 2014 referendum, SNP Membership rocketing, Unionism on the rails after its lies and dishonesty and broken vow, then we have the absolute Constitutional Gold mine of Brexit, where the emphatic sovereign will of Scotland lies diametrically opposed to the sub-sovereign will of Westminster… and the party of Independence pisses the lot of it up against the wall, alienates half the population with it’s woke Lady bollocks, and sits on its indolent arse while Scotland’s economy succumbs to a Brexit catastrophe it could easily have avoided, and the SNP doesn’t even secure token permission for a vote. They’ve come away with less than nothing, an empty poke with a hole in the bottom.

      What a fucking joke. We could have tripped and fallen down an Independent country. What a fucking embarrassment. Scotland’s footballers must be overjoyed that they’re no longer Scotland’s shame and most embarrassing flops. Parcel of rogues? This lot couldn’t tie the fucking string.

      I’ll pass on Nicolas speech on Friday. I prefer to vomit in private. Fast forward to her resignation speech on Saturday… Then we can start again from the bottom. Fuck UK “democracy”. We build ourselves around Scotland’s Constitutional Sovereignty.

    215. CameronB Brodie says:

      The thing is, standing under Westminster’s law, does not indicate a respect for the rule-of-law. Far from it, it requires a complete disregard for international law. It also requires one to turn one’s back on the teaching of Christ and the Buddha. I’m not religious so I’m not sure if one also has to reject the teachings of Muhammad.

    216. Breeks says:

      sassenach says:
      29 January, 2020 at 2:46 pm

      Next leader if Friday is a damp squib?

      Well, there’s optimism.

      You think I’m gonna vote for these feckless invertebrates because they’ve got a new leader?

    217. kapelmeister says:

      The Scots Tories have become single issue politicians. That issue being disempower Scotland.

    218. Clapper57 says:

      So I’ve been browsing through the prominent ‘liberal’ minded remainers Twitter a/c’s and funnily enough NONE of them are mentioning the EU flag vote in Scottish parliament.

      They are all obvs STILL going on about Brexit, Farage, Tice, Tea Towels for Brexit, the rally at WM Parliament square on Friday Jan 31st, conspiracies on Brexit and corruption too….cause they are so very very sad that THEY are being taken out of the EU…even though their fellow countrymen, via a majority, DID actually vote for it….and also voted via a majority of seats for the political party who instigated , negotiated and are ensuring it is implemented.

      Also funnily enough none mentioned Emily Thornberry saying ” I hate the SNP”….no condemnation…no support for the SNP…NADA….

      Quite something when the leader of the SNP attended THEIR Remain rally in London last year , as did Ian Blackford ….AND Joanna Cherry who also even went to court for them and their cause….

      But hey that is now history guys….and thus forgotten as if it did not happen…filed under no longer significant.

      Basically the bottom line is…England voted via a majority for Brexit and Scotland did not….however Scotland and it’s political representatives were expected to give FULL support as were the Scots themselves should another EU vote had happened….now that this is no longer relevant well we, the Scots, are once again disregarded and viewed an irritant in our quest to become independent…..and anything we do now is not worth mentioning on THEIR Twitter a/c’s…because it does not help THEM.

      Said it before and will say it again there are a helluva lot of remainers who are as hypocritical as Brexiteers…VERY selective in what they mention and what they ignore….Scotland’s right to decide it’s own future is the one thing they agree upon…in that they do not see how this helps THEM or understand fully WHY we want this…. they also, both sides, show a contempt , ignorance and disregard for us in general…..twas ever thus and will ever be….

      BTW they will conveniently ignore their once beloved Lib Dems THE most REMAIN party in the UKnotOK voting AGAINST continuing to fly the EU flag outside Holyrood….though I believe they are perhaps now less enamoured with the Lib Dems and are currently pinning their hopes on certain candidates in the Labour leadership contest….you know Labour …the party that sat on the fence re Brexit……

      I now care not a jot that THEY must leave the EU…I see their selfishness is no different to those they constantly berate on their Twitter a/c’s….they have and will never speak for us in Scotland….and have shown that just like those they condemn they are no better…especially on Scotland.

      Rogues Left…..Right and Centre….cheeks of the same arse indeed….it’s all about Me Me Me and what THEY want every f***ing time with the lot of them…so why should we care about THEM.

      Holyrood Friday Jan there…or be…DRY…Lol

      ( Forecast to rain…as per )

      ps. Also forecast to rain in Glasgow so Manky shirt’s shirt will perhaps have some of the dirt washed away…on the outside…the inside is another matter….Lol

    219. Breeks says:

      Postponed from Wednesday mind, “to make more of an impact”.

    220. Gary45% says:

      Many thanks for simply mentioning Palestine, I received email details this morning regarding the new situation.
      Basically the situation has been dire for decades, it is now million times worse.(If that’s possible?)
      The world does nothing, although I am heavily involved with Palestine I feel ashamed of the human race.
      The Genocidal Israeli Government kiss Trumps arse, so its obvious Trump will give the ???? I would call them Zionist Scum, (but that is not strong enough criticism), anything they want so they can shout “We Love Trump” to appease the Zionist inbred, right wing, red necks of America.

      Monday past was International Holocaust Remembrance Day, yet innocent Palestinians were killed – “murdered” – by the Israeli forces at the weekend, “a daily occurrence”. There is a justifiable call for sympathy for those affected by the WW2 Holocaust, however, some Israeli supporters have learned nothing from it going by their treatment of Palestinians, and their disregard for humanity.
      They seem to have learned nothing.
      History will judge them.

    221. sassenach says:


      Being in my eighties, I haven’t got time to go to the bottom AGAIN, so I need to retain hope (it’s all I have left, I’m afraid).

      Seriously, how quickly do you imagine it will take to oust all the SNP and create another party to get to the same place as now? A ‘generation’ if you’ll accept the irony of that word – and I’m not interested in that – yet. Give me a call after the weekend!!

    222. CameronB Brodie says:

      The SNP just needs a thorough shake-out, IMHO. Far to many lawyers who view the British legal system as valid. They certainly don’t appear to understand constitutional law, as they appear to be happy to stand under Westminster’s authority. Despite Westminster not caring a hoot about legal convention.

    223. jockmcx says:

      Is Scotland a country? That was and is the only question.

      In 2014 a lot of people’s answer was no…
      little people.

      Time to be big!

    224. Dr Jim says:

      England has declared it owns Scotland do you wish that to continue, Yes or No

    225. Abulhaq says:

      The massive issue with Israel-Palestine talks is that they do not talk to each directly but communicate through third parties and usually in American English.
      In this way the thing is unlikely to get fixed. May suit both parties’ leaders that way.
      I can assure readers that on the ‘Arab street’ the Palestinian problem is regarded as a problem for Palestinians only. Outsiders, however well intentioned, have done nothing to help.
      Fundamental is the right of Israel to exist. In Palestinian ‘propaganda’ in Arabic that is considered a step too far. The tone of the rhetoric can be alarmingly ‘anti-Jewish’.

    226. terence callachan says:


      I agree with you, poor Palestine.

      Israel merging a religion with a country to make it the same thing so they can pretend that whatever the state does , it does in the name of god.

      I’ve been to Israel travelled to several cities it’s a crazy wacky weird place you have to see it to believe it , a police state everyone spying on everyone, people just randomly approach others engage them in conversation as cover and then after a minute p or two ask where you are from where you are staying who you are with and why are you here ? At first you think it’s just people showing friendly interest but then you start to realise it’s an undercurrent of suspicion and fear of anything and anyone who is not of their faith and nationality.

      The future will be a problem for Israel they are making too many enemies.

    227. terence callachan says:

      Abulhaq… but the greater issue is that Israel does not want Palestine to exist and that is why they and trump have come up with their idiotic new deal

    228. Liz g says:

      Are any of the British party’s in Holyrood going to take part in the actual debate proposition?
      Every last one of them sayin what they think should be debated…. Where’s the case for sticking with Westminster..
      How would these figures be improved by doing so!!

    229. CameronB Brodie says:

      If anyone is interested in finding out a bit about Social Identity Theory, and why it is important, the Rev. has released my link.

    230. ahundredthidiot says:

      Friday is D Day for Scotland.
      (D Day plus 3 on Monday at a push)

      If the SNP do nothing – I’m afraid it’s all over.

      There wont be any fighting, no one has the stomach for that (and it’s counter-productive anyway), interest will slip away. The grinding down will have worked.

      But only if there is spineless inaction from our SNP representatives. A Westminster walk-out is the only way to go – importantly, there must be no return under ANY condition.

      No walk out – my position will be that the SNP has been effectively infiltrated by the British Regime and it will literally take a generation before anything can be done about it – and even then it’s not guaranteed. 2021 will be pointless, despite the efforts of a Wings Party.

      All eyes on SNP then……ball’s in their court……they just need to find the courage.

    231. Gary45% says:

      One thing I am not is Anti-Jewish, I have said for years, if the situation was reversed and it was the Palestinians committing UN recognised War Crimes, Genocide, Apartheid, land theft and other barbaric indefensible acts of cruelty (white phosphorus, shooting children e.t.c) to Israelis, I would be supporting the Israeli cause.
      As it is Israel doing the above, my solidarity is with the Palestinians.
      Humanity before religion.

    232. Colin Alexander says:

      EU Parliament debate: UK Withdrawal from the EU:

      Freeview Channel 232

    233. Once again the Palestinian people are offered a state that is to be controlled by Israel someone should ask Trump if he was a Palestian if he would accept it ??? As I have said before the world looks on and does nothing while the Palestinian men women and children are murdered and their land stolen from them and we get people like Murphy calling themselves friends of Israel it speaks volumes about them I have got Scottish and Palestinian flag stickers on my car to show my support for 2 enslaved countries as the saying goes shout out against injustice shout out loud your head it may be bloodied but unbowed wear your scars like medals they were won for a just cause

    234. Gary45% says:

      Blair Paterson@4.43
      Palestine sticker, many thanks for showing support.
      I am not sure if you have looked at any of the documentaries on You Tube I have listed before, if you have, thank you.

    235. Liz g says:

      See what I mean about us taking Auld Lang Syne as our national anthem?
      It’s international recognition is second to none 🙂

    236. Scot_brand says:

      As the EU rises to bid farewell with a rendition of Auld Lang Syne, Sky & BBC even manages to show its contempt by desperately dubbing out the words. Low of the low.

    237. CameronB Brodie says:

      Liz g
      You might be interested in a bit of Christian bioethics then. It would help if you could pass it on to someone with influence over the Scottish government. They could then pass it on to Westminster, not that they care for due legal process and a respect for universal human rights. 😉

      Relational Personhood, Social Justice and the Common Good: Catholic Contributions toward a Public Health Ethics


      Worldwide, there is renewed public and political attention focused on public health fueled by the globally explosive H1N1 pandemic. Pandemic planning emerged as a major area for public action in the absence of an overarching ethics framework appropriate for the community and population focus of public health.

      Baylis, Sherwin, and Kenny propose relational personhood and relational solidarity as core values for a public health ethics. The Catholic faith tradition makes three useful contributions in support of a relational ethic: first, a religious ontology that aligns with the view that human persons are inherently relational; second, a coherent account of the requisite social and communal ideals and structures that this belief demands; and third, inspiration and motivation for the attitudes and actions that are required in response to a relational ontology.

      common good, ethics, public health, relational personhood, relational solidarity, social justice

    238. Rm says:

      I watched Groundhog Day on tv last night it reminded me of what’s been happening in Scotland this last few years, go to bed waken up in the morning nothing new, go to bed waken up in the morning nothing new, go to bed waken up in the morning nothing new after three and a bit years still the same this morning could tomorrow morning bring something new? Mmmmm.

    239. Mike d says:

      Those 48 SNP mp’s in Westminster would be as well sat debating in a pub for all the influence they have.what is it that keeps you there?. The £79.468 salary and perks. Because its certainly not the f****ng respect.

    240. Mist001 says:

      So, MSPs have backed calls for a new referendum on Scottish independence in a vote at Holyrood.

      So, what’s fucking new about that? Did anyone think they’d vote against it? Does it change anything?


      So, she’d better have a damned good ‘plan B’ for Friday up her sleeve.

    241. Fireproofjim says:

      The disgusting BBC Scotland lead their news on drug problems in Scotland on the day that one of the most important votes in the Scottish Parliament is taken.
      Their bias is appalling.

    242. Skintybroko says:

      And yet again the English Nationalist parties vote down indyref2, doing their masters bidding and treating the Scottish people like third class citizens not worthy of their attention and support

    243. callmedave says:

      Rather see 48 of our lot that 48 of the other in WM.

      In addition they speak for us and many good points made on a daily basis.

      Plus brings in the ‘short’ money that the SNP need. (our money)

      Short money!

      There’s more as others have said over the last 4 years but I can’t be arsed to post much. (too ill at the mo’).

      Better soon fingers X’d 🙂

      Anyhoo! We have come a long way and nobody said it would be easy.

    244. Dr Jim says:

      Joanna Cherry calls BBCs Bryan Taylor a liar and propagandist as he continues to quote the falsehood that “It’s quite clear that only Westminster have the power to decide on a second Indyref” but Joanna used more diplomatic language than me as she went on to describe the legal opinion of Aidan Quinn QC with reference to the Scotland act who says it’s quite possible that Scotland indeed can hold an Independence referendum without any approval from anyone

      The more the BBCs Bryan Taylor is told about moderating his words and checking his facts the less he seems to do it
      indicating either his personal opinion or BBC opinion or the promotion of propaganda or both

      Jackson Carlaw Tory mouthpiece in the Scottish parliament accused the FM of having tame polling companies
      Only someone who knows such a thing was possible could accuse another of doing it

    245. sassenach says:

      mist001 says:- “So, she’d better have a damned good ‘plan B’ for Friday up her sleeve” – or what, you ( who can’t even vote in an indyref!!) will get a tiny bit annoyed?

      I’ll bet she’s quaking!!

    246. Dan says:

      Whilst waiting for the a rabbit or steaming turd to be pulled out a hat on Friday…

      OT Further observations of the human species in the form of a tale of two world record 100m sprints.

      Men’s WR 9.58secs
      Usain Bolt 2009

      Women’s WR 10.49secs
      Florence Griffith-Joyner 1988

      10.49 – 9.58 = 0.91*

      *This number has some sort of relevance as it highlights an apparent discrepancy in the quickest time 100m has ever been run by a man and a woman.

      I’m beginning to observe a theme in these studies I’ve been indulging in.
      The consistent differences in results biased in one particular direction looks to me like women have been sandbagging in their performances, though I don’t rule out another reason beyond my ken as I only took chemistry and not biology at school.

    247. Dr Jim says:

      @Dan 6:53pm

      According to Tory thinking if Usain Bolt was Usain McBolt he would never have been *allowed* to run a race again if this was the best he could ever achieve

      Just as well somebody else is in charge of other stuff or we’d all only get to do things once

    248. Effijy says:

      Imagine Boris wipes out many Scots.
      An American group claim to be the original people’s of Scotland
      the Picts.
      So once Boris is removed, they get help from US Forces to settle
      Here in Scotland. They shoot any Scots survivors if they resist.

      Coming from the US the new arrivals buy the shops, the Land
      And the factories and sack everyone who isn’t a returning Pict.
      Pics only employed boldly written on every door.

      The Scots start fighting for their livelihoods but are no match for
      US forces so beaten they get penned into a corner where the Picts
      Control everything in their lives and treat them badly and rebels are shot.

      What is different in Israel with the Palestine they stole?

      No way have I anything against anyone who acts reasonably but this certainly isn’t reasonable.

    249. Dan says:

      @Dr Jim

      Surely Tories would say it was up to Usain’s kid to attempt to beat his time as in OIAG terms.
      In fact I fully expect the Tories to push for the Olympics and other sporting events to be generational events rather than with the frequency they currently occur.

      In Scotland however, Usain could spend years accruing multiple mandates to run again. The fact he’ll be a withered old man and barely able to walk by the time he finally hits the starting blocks needs to be factored in.

      In other news, my car is mucky as with mud off the roads, someone looks to have used their finger to write “Fuck the Queen and her Fascist Regime” on the tailgate which I presume must have been some kind of protest against her facilitating the loss of their EU Citizenship.
      I’m a keen environmentalist and rather than use potable water from the tap to wash my car, I use the far more eco-friendly method of waiting for it to rain, so not sure how long it will stay on the tailgate.

    250. Mist001 says:

      @ sassenach

      No, what really annoys me is dumbfuck ‘indy’ supporters who can’t even get their facts right and just parrot off shite without fact checking. God help Scotland if they ever have clowns like you running the show.

    251. CameronB Brodie says:

      Liz g
      Here’s another you could pass on to someone you think could benefit from an injection of ethical rationalism. Remember, without a respect for cultural rights, you can expect your other human rights to be respected. If you allow your human rights to be degraded, you can’t hope to defend environmental quality, and a downward spiral towards total social collapse is quite likely. ;(

      The Role of Social and Intergenerational Equity
      in Making Changes in Human Well-Being Sustainable


      A sustainable world is one in which human needs are met equitably and without sacrificing the ability of future generations to meet their needs. Human well-being is described by four primary elements – basic human needs, economic needs, environmental needs, and subjective well-being. These elements can interact in a myriad of ways to influence overall well-being.

      What makes changes in human well-being sustainable for a population or a nation? Two major interactional concepts can push changes in human well-being toward a sustainable state in space and time – social equity and intergenerational equity.

      The concept of social equity distributes well-being over space, ensuring the fair treatment of all members of society promoting spatial sustainability of a well-being decision. The concept of intergenerational equity distributes well-being through time, ensuring the well-being of present and future generations of a population or nation, promoting temporal sustainability of a well-being decision.

      The roles of social and intergenerational equity in terms of their influence on human well-being are examined with a focus on more sustainable decision-making.

      Well-being, Sustainability, Social equity, Environmental justice, Intergenerational equity

    252. CameronB Brodie says:

      Sorry…without a respect for cultural rights, you can‘t expect….

    253. Clive Scott says:

      Glad that Holyrood voted to keep the EU flag flying and reverse the dreadful decision by the Corporate Body, in toadying lock step with Westminster, to have it removed. Too bad the MSP’s did not also vote to have the Union flag, despised symbol of colonial oppression, removed while they were at it.

    254. Unionist Media BDSM Club says:

      iain mhor says:
      29 January, 2020 at 2:27 pm
      i still think an option would be to hold a referendum on whether to hold a referendum,

      Small tweak: that first referendum should be on the question ‘Do you believe the result of the forthcoming independence referendum should be respected in Scotland, the UK and internationally?’

      It should be asked on the day of the Holyrood elections, so fewer Unionists will boycott it. The indyref should then be held weeks later.

      Get a big Yes vote on that first referendum question and THAT should be the mandate we wave at Scottish Unionists, London and the EU. The indyref itself would then be decided on a 50% +1 basis, with turnout irrelevant because of that first essential mandate.

    255. CameronB Brodie says:

      And here’s the legal structure that Scotland will be forced to depart from. Henceforth, Scotland will have no subsequent control over whether bioethical and environmental practices in Brexitania will be coherent with EU standards. That means GM foods and a general degradation of the regulation of environmental quality and health standards. All to satisfy Tory minded Little Englanders.

      Texts of the Council of Europe
      on bioethical matters
      Volume II

    256. Gary45% says:

      Good analogy. I’ve been using something similar describing the situation.

    257. cynicalHighlander says:

      @callmedave says

      (too ill at the mo’).

      Get well soon.

    258. fillofficer says:

      alex neil (snp) on ch4 news
      kaiboshing holyrood on the day of the indy vote
      muddying the waters with EU/EFTA/Gretna border
      crazy timing

    259. Colin Alexander says:

      Clive Scott

      Take doon the Butcher’s Apron ( Union Flag) but no burning of it: that’s no enviromentally friendly and a fire hazard.

      We should keep it to drape ower Gordon Broon’s coffin and bury it with him when he passes on, out of deepest respect for Broon and his beloved Union
      (ahem, just clearing my throat, no choking on sarcasm).

    260. Republicofscotland says:

      Joanna Cherry’s piece in the National, that Holyrood could hold a referendum on independence and it would be for Westminster to challenge its legitimacy is positive thinking, and it could be the way forward.

    261. CameronB Brodie says:

      So Joanna Cherry still considers the British constitution to have legal force over Scotland. As a strict legal reading of the constitution can’t even justify the recent abuse of Treaty obligations, the British constitution can not be regarded as having adequate legal foundations or the force of moral law.

    262. CameronB Brodie says:

      Sorry, the British constitution may, in fact, have adequate legal foundations. Brexit certainly doesn’t, as it doesn’t even respect the British constitution.

    263. Liz g says:

      Cameron B Brodie
      I’m an atheist…. A big one 🙂

    264. Clapper57 says:

      @ fillofficer @ 7.51pm

      “crazy timing”

      Not for Channel Four News fillofficer…perfect timing.

      Here’s a stooge to ‘buck the trend’ of Scots supposedly wanting to Remain in the EU…..article in The Herald is it ….can we interview you Mr Neil…perhaps get your opinion on the possible hard border between England and Scotland if Scotland were to seek to rejoin the EU if Scotland does get independence….so you think Scotland after independence should’nt try to rejoin the EU ?

      Typical BritNat news (non) programme…always seeking out the dissenter’s opinion….hence why I have added them to my extensive avoid list ….in fact any MSM that discusses/reports on politics is best avoided….stick to online where YOU get to decide who YOU want to get news/information from….after all the consensus of us on here, and many others, is that the MSM does NOT report the News as such but only offers opinions based on perceptions, assumptions, ignorance and second hand dubious sources whose bias is guaranteed to favour the Union over what Scotland actually needs and would benefit from…..obvious one being getting Independence from WM UKnotOK politics being high on the list ……and freedom from News programmes such as Channel Four News….and too many others to mention.

      Too many sacrificial Lambs offering themselves up for the MSM to slaughter…..or rather the opportunity to slaughter their REAL target…the SNP and Independence for Scotland.

    265. CameronB Brodie says:

      Liz g
      Is that you rejecting biology as well as Christian ethics. Oh ffs. 🙂

    266. Dan says:

      Fuck me sideways!
      I’ve moved my human species studies into other areas as the sport results seemed to have a consistent theme.
      I’ve just found out the stats for males and females giving birth.
      Get this, since like the beginning of time, every child ever born has come out of a woman! WTF how can that be?
      People have been shagging since we crawled out the water on our fins and grew legs and arms and stuff, but it beggars belief that from all those fornication events, bairns have only come out of women.
      I mean, the odds of that must be like winning the lottery loads of times in a row unless there is some other reason.
      That chemistry O Grade I did at school instead of biology has really limited my ability to comprehend this situation properly, but just by applying some practical rational thought, I’m beginning to think there must be some kind of fundamental physiological differences between a man and a woman.

      The fact there are even separate words, “boy” & “girl” and “man” & “woman” to describe humans in early and later life must point to something.
      More studies the morra as gonna have to take a break tonight to fully absorb this newly discovered info.

    267. Golfnut says:

      @ Liz g. 5:45.

      We couldn’t pick a better anthem. We sing it, we dance to it, and everybody gets a hug at the end of it and half the world know the words. Gets my vote.

    268. Liz g says:

      Cameron B Brodie
      These two things are not the same…None of the Abrahamic religions have even a passing relationship with ethics!
      Work linking the two are based on a false premise that a higher power is has directed whats ethical.
      There is simply no testable evidence for that claim!

    269. Golfnut says:

      @ Dan.

      It’s very difficult to match Dr Jim and Clapper57 for wrapping up serious comment with banter, but your last comment was definitely up there… competing I mean.

    270. iain mhor says:

      @Unionist Media BDSM Club 7:39pm

      Perhaps a re-reading of my post?
      I’m afraid I failed to understand any sense in your suggestion, literally. I’m struggling with most of it, but ‘The forthcoming referendum?’ eh? How can you have… why would you then need to…nevermind.

      Disregarding that, the point was anything remotely similar to what you suggested (whatever that was, sorry) is made redundant by the internal logic of my original post.

    271. Ahundredthidiot says:

      Liz G

      There’s no such thing as an atheist, but I’m guessing you may already know that.

    272. Breeks says:

      Republicofscotland says:
      29 January, 2020 at 7:54 pm
      Joanna Cherry’s piece in the National, that Holyrood could hold a referendum on independence and it would be for Westminster to challenge its legitimacy is positive thinking, and it could be the way forward…

      A way sideways I think.

      I repeat my own observation that there are three constitutions in play; the ancient and sovereign Constitution of Scotland, the non-sovereign in Scotland Constitution of the UK Parliament, and the non-Sovereign Constitution of the Holyrood Assembly.

      Scotland does not need to find circuitous passage through the Scotland Act and Sewel Convention for a referendum, because that “British” legislation was designed for a Devolved Assembly lower than Westminster, not a Sovereign Parliament higher than and sovereign over Westminster.

      If Westminster objects to a Devolved referendum, fuck it. Tell Boris to shove the Scotland Act up his arse, step outside Holyrood’s “cosy” Convention, and hold a truly Scottish referendum under Scotland’s ancient and sovereign Constitution which Westminster has no jurisdiction whatsoever to interfere with.

      I asked the question a long time ago whether Holyrood had red Sovereignty (Scottish) or white Sovereignty (Westminster), pink Sovereignty, (an amalgam of both) or raspberry ripple Sovereignty, a mixture of both.

      That the SNP still wish to embrace the Scotland Act and Sewel Convention suggests to me that Holyrood feels itself more constrained by and the inferior of, Westminster white Sovereignty than constrained by any vestige of Scotland’s Popular Sovereignty. The sovereignty of Holyrood clearly isn’t pink, and it most certainly isn’t red. Holyrood manifestly isn’t serving the primacy of our interests, but Westminster’s.

      Withdraw from both Westminster AND Holyrood and hold a referendum on the unadulterated red Sovereignty of Scotland’s Sovereign Constitution. If the SNP Government hasn’t the guts to stand firm in defence of Scotland’s Popular Sovereignty, then empeach that Government, get rid of it, and elect another to replace it which is much more Constitutionally literate and understands its roll as a true defender of Scotland’s Sovereign Constitution, not waste all of our time dicking around as the Westminster sub-committee governed by the Scotland Act.

    273. Liz g says:

      Golfnut @ 9.43
      I know, I think so too.
      Obviously I’ll accept what the majority decided,and look forward to the day that’s what we’re deciding on 🙂
      But I just so hope we don’t get stuck with Flower of Scotland.
      Having said that….. Asking people what they think it could be is a great way to break the ice and get an Indy conversation going,almost nobody refuses to talk about it and it puts the notion of having something to choose in people’s mind!

    274. Golfnut says:

      Haven’t noticed anybody else post this, Royal Assent given today on the Holyrood Referendum Bill, same day as Holyrood votes for it, coincidence or what.

    275. Dr Jim says:

      Just when China is booming with trade and investment and all sorts of good things going for them somebody turns up and starts a virus bringing everything to a halt, what a terrible coincidence

      I do hope all the Americans and Brits and Russians got home safe

    276. Golfnut says:

      @ Liz g.

      Good point, although I’ve noticed in my social circles that less and less people think Flower of Scotland as an appropriate anthem for Scotland.

    277. Liz g says:

      Ahundredthidiot @ 10.01
      Are you saying I can’t self identify ? 🙂

    278. CameronB Brodie says:

      Liz g
      I was joking to an extent, but I do know what I’m talking about, with regard to ethics. I’ve just given you the perfect defense against gender-ideology and contemporary British nationalism, yet you appear to want to argue with me. I really am flummoxed by the Scottish psyche.

      Without consideration of the moral law, constitutional law tends towards totalitarianism. See Brexit.

    279. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      As you say at 10:07pm @Golfnut

      Current Status of the Bill:

      This Scottish Government Bill was introduced by the Cabinet Secretary for Government Business and Constitutional Relations, Michael Russell MSP, on 28 May 2019.

      Royal Assent received on 29 January 2020.

    280. Liz g says:

      Golfnut @ 10.11
      I hope your right…. Battles, English Kings & Bloody Tombs shouldn’t define us going forward.
      And FOS has seeped in by almost tacit,amused,approval of Westminster and English Sport I don’t want an anthem by default…
      As to the Royal Assent…. I had seen something elsewhere about it and came on here to see if anybody hard heard…
      Then got distracted…. LOL…

    281. Liz g says:

      Jockanese wind talker @ 10.17
      Thanks for that link…. One domino down at least…

    282. Tinto Chiel says:

      @fillofficer 7.51: I unfortunately saw this crapola when visiting a neighbour.

      C4 are no different from the BBC or ITV, they work under instruction from the Establishment (consider who owns them). Neil, like Sillars, entered the SNP after their “Scottish Labour” Project flatlined. Most opportune he should appear flogging this divisive horse, dutifully amplified by the broadcaster.

      Cui bono? as the lawyers ask. I’m sure we can draw our own conclusions.

      I wonder also how many of our sentimental, singing MEPs were aware Auld Lang Syne is a Scottish air. Then again, why should they care a jot about us when too may Scots don’t give a flying fruit bat for their sovereignty or self-respect?

      Friday’s shaping up to be a huge day…

    283. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      RE: anthem.

      I revisit this two or three times a year.
      It’s known all over Europe. As a pice of French martial msic, inspired bt Joan O Arc’s Scots Guards.
      My eyes still water when the bagpipes come in.
      ‘Hey Tuttie Tatie/Scots Wha Hae’…

    284. Dr Jim says:

      Folk make an awfy fuss about Royal assent when in reality it means nothing, because even England can’t keep pretending they have a Monarchial state and a democracy simultaneously, folk in England are beginning to educate themselves in politics the way Scotland did 10 years ago and found them out

      Except for the Yoonybangers that is, they’re still trying to pick the ink out of their knuckles, or knuckles out of the ink

    285. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      “pice of French martial msic, inspired bt Joan O Arc’s Scots Guards.”


      “piece of French martial music”, inspired by Joan Of Arc’s Scots Guards.”

      Time for bed, said Zebedee.

    286. Liz g says:

      Cameron B Brodie
      No you haven’t …. I could never argue a moral perspective that pivots on an amoral teaching.
      Anyhoo that’s a conversation for another day!

    287. Liz g says:

      Brian Doonthetoon @ 10.31
      Did ah no just say nae Auld Battles… 🙂
      Jist think though…. In 300 odd years Mibbi some cantankerous Auld Scots wummin will be sayin..
      “Nae Auld Referendum Songs”… LOL

    288. Kangaroo says:


      Thanks for the headsup on the Scottish Referendum Bill, now an Act as Royal Assent granted. If Westminster can get almost same day approval for the EU Withdrawal Bill how come it took 10days for our Bill?

    289. CameronB Brodie says:

      Neither those supporting contemporary British constitutionalism, including all those who work within its’ legal structure, or those supporting the introduction of gender-ideology in law, appear to understand what it means to support the rule-of-law.

      Standing under British constitutional law can not be considered coherent with supporting the structure of international law. Including international human rights law.

      Human rights are considered “global constitutional rights”. Brexit denies those living in Scotland have a legal right to human right or global constitutional rights. Let alone legal rights under the British constitution.

      Full text.

      Bioethics and Basic Rights: Persons, Humans, and Boundaries of Life

    290. Clapper57 says:

      @ Liz g @ 10.12pm

      Talking of Self ID….if a majority of Scots state they Self ID as ‘Separatists’ ( not quite got the same ring to it as Pansexual like Layla Moran’s choice of identity but I for one would be willing to change it to Separatistsexual..easy to be not easy to say Lol) …

      Sooooooo would that mean THEN that we would get our bloody ‘separation’…..after all Self ID is THE current trend….so if it’s good enough for some ..even Lib Dems…then it sure as f*%& should be good enough for us……ya thunk…

      Chose word separation as apparently Unionists only recognise that and I didn’t fancy using the other well known and over used term i.e. Divisive Nationalism and then altering it to Divisive Nationalismsexual as a Self ID term….cause it sounds more like a medical condition…Lol

      Still stands…only you can call me Flapper

      Hope you are well Liz

    291. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      ACh, Liz G, diz that tune no’ stir yir loins?

      When the French troops were killed in Africa last year, what choon was played at the ceremony – on the bagpipes, no less?

    292. Liz g says:

      Kangaroo @ 10.42
      The Scottish parliament was set up so that Bill’s passed by it have to wait 2 week’s before receiving Royal Assent.
      This is to afford Westminster the opportunity to check and see if it approved.
      If it challenged it…
      Either Holyrood changes it to suit Westminster.
      Scrape it.
      Or fights it in the Supreme Court.
      Holyrood Bill’s never “just” go through…
      It’s a fail safe for Westminster…

    293. Brian Doonthetoon says:


      Respected by Europe…

    294. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Scots wha hae, an thah’…

    295. Golfnut says:

      @ Dr Jim.

      Westminster went to great lengths to prevent Royal Assent being given to the Continuity Bill, so obviously significant to them, which means its significant to us in any upcoming challenge to the next indyref, but I confess I’m a royalist, not a sax/Windsor unionist type royalist but a Scotland should remain the Oldest surviving Kingdom in Europe until all negotiations with Westminster are completed and enacted type of royalist.

    296. Liz g says:

      Clapper 57 @ 10.45
      Hey Flapper…. I’m well thank ye… Hope you are too
      I think you might be on to something there 🙂
      We could get even more outrageous than those gender activist nutters… But funnier… Eh?

    297. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      One last one…

      This choon is as well known in Europe as “Auld Lang Syne”…

    298. Kangaroo says:

      Clapper57 @10:45

      So as a SelfID SeparatistSexual do you use the “withdrawal method” ?

    299. kapelmeister says:

      “No more being talked down to, no more being bullied” gloated Farage as he took his leave of Brussels and headed back to London, where he and his ilk plan to do lots of talking down to and bullying of Scotland.

    300. Liz g says:

      Golfnut @ 10.54
      If you’re suggesting use them and dump them.. I like it.
      I’ve even been known to say our Sovereignty is as God given as Auld Lizzie Windsors 🙂

    301. Liz g says:

      Kangaroo @ 10.57
      I think I’ll be having a complaint to the Rev now…
      I posted a perfectly nice reply to you about Royal Assent,and it’s stuck in moderation.
      I haven’t a clue what was wrong with it and you get away with your 10.57 comment nae bother…
      This is discrimination is what it is… Back me up here 🙂

    302. Golfnut says:

      @ Clapper57.

      You had me in right panic there, I had to check upthread to see if I was the offender. I have history.

    303. Liz g says:

      Brian Doonthetoon @ 10.56
      Is it aye?
      Ya sneaky bugger…. Nae Auld Battles

    304. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      The point I’m trying to make is that our Scottish history has been suppressed over the past 300 years.

      With the web, we are being enlightened, once again.

      RE: “Soldats – Robert Bruce, etc”…

      How many of us were taught this in our history classes?

    305. Golfnut says:

      @ Liz g.

      Got it in one.

    306. Dr Jim says:

      Actor Stephen Mangan described Boris Johnson as having the same type of charisma as Hitler

    307. Golfnut says:

      @ Kangaroo.

      The delay may have been caused by the Presiding Officer, yes that one, but I think its worth noting it was given on the same day Holyrood were voting on right of the Soveriegn People of Scotland to hold referendums.

    308. Clapper57 says:

      @ Kangaroo @ 10.56pm

      Lol…Good one. I laughed out loud….is this an adults Only themed night on Wings…okay I started it….Lol

      Only in as much Kangaroo… AS a female…I would WITHDRAW my consent…as a Separatist….obvs…though in the context of being recognised as a SeparatistSexual I would hope the UKnotOK government would NOT withdraw their consent in recognising my right to separate from them ….Confused ….me too….hopefully they too will be Lol

      Clutching at straws here…..

      @ Liz g @ 10.56pm

      Yeah…Liz perhaps we need to get OUTrageous….and OUT ourselves as Self ID independents with a sexual angle…not as in position…Lol…only in as joining the ever expanding club of different Self ID types….God there is a barrel being scraped here…BY ME…eventually I will reach the bottom…as in bottom of the barrel not as in body part bottom….Lol

      ps. Someone please help me… to stop me… constantly adding Lol to my comments………….Lol

    309. CameronB Brodie says:

      Those there is dispute as to the likely extend of economic and social harm Brexit can be expected cause, it is not the actions of competent government that is willing to operate withing the boundaries of international law. Britain is no longer a social democracy. I wish our politicians would wake up to this fact, though they may have a vested interest not to.

      Brexit will harm Scotland’s public health and so must be avoided at all costs. IMHO, the SNP wasted too much time coxing the soft-No voters by trying to stop Brexit. They haven’t and our human rights are now under extreme duress.

      Equality and Liberty in the Golden Age of State Constitutional Law
      The Right of Bodily Integrity

    310. Dr Jim says:

      Sheila Ritchie Liberal Democrat MEP said on STVs Scotland tonight “The Union of the UK has been for 400 years”

      That right there should be one of the reasons nobody ever votes Liberal Democrat ever again, they have an inability to count up the way or subtract doon the way or tell the fffffing truth

    311. Clapper57 says:

      @ Golfnut 29 January, 2020 at 11:09 pm
      @ Clapper57.

      “You had me in right panic there, I had to check upthread to see if I was the offender. I have history”.

      Hi Golfnut….not sure what you mean….unless you were replying to someone else and put my name by mistake ??

      @ Kangaroo @ 10.56pm

      Hi I responded to you BUT tis in moderation…nothing bad but maybe because I used a naughty word…not at you….me bad. I did laugh out loud at your comment though….LOL

    312. CameronB Brodie says:

      I hope folk appreciate their getting a crash course in human rights law, so it would save time of Scotland’s judiciary are looking in. They appear to lack respect for epistemic integrity, probably because they lack sufficient appreciation of the Law of Persons. Anyhoo, I digress.

      Given Britain relies on an unwritten constitution that is riddled with logical inconsistency that are covered over by legal convention, it’s probably instructive to look at American constitutional law, which isn’t so ethically impaired by legal positivism.

      Human Dignity in Supreme Court
      Constitutional Jurisprudence

    313. Sandy says:


      On Scotland’s independence & acceptance of “Auld Lang Syne” as our National Anthem, wouldn’t it be great to hear the rest of the world give vent to it several times a year.

      Problems for EBC/Engerland at new year, etc.

      Maybe they should adopt “Nobody’s Child”.

    314. Stoker says:

      Mike d says on 29 January, 2020 at 6:22 pm:
      “Those 48 SNP mp’s in Westminster would be as well sat debating in a pub for all the influence they have.what is it that keeps you there?. The £79.468 salary and perks. Because its certainly not the f****ng respect.”
      Clive Scott says on 29 January, 2020 at 7:37 pm:
      “Glad that Holyrood voted to keep the EU flag flying and reverse the dreadful decision by the Corporate Body, in toadying lock step with Westminster, to have it removed. Too bad the MSP’s did not also vote to have the Union flag, despised symbol of colonial oppression, removed while they were at it.”
      Anyone got the voting details, who voted what, for the EU Flag issue and the IndyRef issue? Struggling to find them.

    315. Golfnut says:

      @ Clapper57.

      I mentioned you in a comment to Dan up thread.

    316. Kangaroo says:

      EU Ratification day tomorrow contd..from upthread 29Jan @ 12:48am

      So Friday comes and the Brexit deadline approaches…
      Nicola announces …..
      that the Northern Irish protocol in the now ratified Withdrawal Agreement breaches Articles 4&6 of the 1707 Treaty of Union and therefore at 11pm on 31st January the United Kingdom and its Parliament of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is Legally dissolved by the actions of Westminster.

      That the Scottish Parliament therefore resumes full powers over all matters, subject to the Sovereignty of the people and that their will indeed be a Referendum…but with a different question.

      Will she be our Jean d’Arc and deliver a “Red Comyn” moment?

    317. Liz g says:

      Sandy @ 11.42
      That’s why I like it… Most people can only name a half dozen National Anthems… Try it 🙂
      Auld Lang Syne is not only recognised the world over.
      They can sing it.
      They cross arms to it too.
      They know it’s about friendship.
      International recognition is a very important part of a National Anthem and most countries have a big head start.
      Except for Auld Lang Syne.
      It was written about the time of the Union!
      So is as old as GSTQ.
      It’s composer is uncontroversial and clearly Scottish.

      It’s like we gave it to the world to keep and to sing all during the Union Year’s and now we’re bringing it home!
      Imagine it in a stadium…. That’s when the linking of hands would be so impressive 🙂

    318. Bill Hume. says:

      Sandy @ 11:42 pm.
      I’m with you on Auld Lang Syne as our national anthem.
      It’s a good tune to march to as well.

    319. Clapper57 says:

      @ Golfnut @ 11.49pm

      Ooops sorry never saw it.

      You are a sweetie…what a nice thing to say.Thank you.

      Have a lovely day tomorrow…too late now to wish you a good evening as it is after 12 am ( though hope you sleep well….not being ominous…Lol)

    320. CameronB Brodie says:

      To the best of my ability anyway, and the constraints of t’internet.


    321. Clapper57 says:

      Auld Lang Syne as OUR National Anthem.

      Awesome…the whole world…as in everyone who celebrates New Year singing OUR National Anthem on New Years eve at 12am….cool.

      Don’t cha wish your anthem was as Hot as OURS…or maybe ” as COOL as OURS”….sorry taken it toooooooooooo far…again

    322. CameronB Brodie says:

      Without a respect for the moral law, which Brexit lacks entirely, constitutional law becomes harmful and authoritarian. Forget whether you believe in religion for a moment, the only way that social justice is at all achievable, is through a respect of natural law and natural rights. Constitutional law works against the potential for justice, without a respect for moral law, which provides the British constitution with its’ legal force. Simply step out from under the authority of British constitutional law, it no longer has the force of moral authority.

      Human Dignity and Judicial Interpretation of Human Rights

    323. Breeks says:

      kapelmeister says:
      29 January, 2020 at 11:00 pm
      “No more being talked down to, no more being bullied” gloated Farage as he took his leave of Brussels and headed back to London, where he and his ilk plan to do lots of talking down to and bullying of Scotland.

      Talked down to and bullied? We’re about to be yanked out of Europe without so much as a shot being fired by our cowardly craven SNP Government. Westminster hasn’t bullied them into submission. Sturgeon was caving in all by herself within hours of the Brexit result and pulled the rug out from Scotland’s Constitutional Sovereignty and sovereign will of the people with the whiny unforced compromise of access to the Single Market.

      As for being bullied and talked down to, I believe they have multiple mandates to deserve that disrespect. A Scottish Government with a backbone wouldn’t have surrendered our European Citizenship without a fight, not like the Vichy SNP,

    324. CameronB Brodie says:

      Please folks, don’t simply accept being told you must identify as a Tory Gammon. Self-ID is the route to a totalitarian dystopia. So is contemporary British constitutionalism.

      From constitutional to human rights:
      on the moral structure of international human rights

    325. Still Positive says:

      I would like Paulo Nutini’s version of A Man’s a man for a that as our national anthem.

    326. Chic McGregor says:

      I don’t know whether Farage is motivated by the exile of his Huguenot ancestors or his German mother-in-law but wherever his Europhobia stems from I think a fitting reward for him would be to be appointed ambassador to Malaysia or the Philippines where his name means c**T.

    327. CameronB Brodie says:

      Farage certainly has all the outward appearance of being a fascist, and it is ethically the rational duty of individuals to socially and politically dis-empower fascists. If you tolerate intolerance, you loose the ability to defend tolerance.

      Human Rights and Political Wrongs
      A new approach to Human Rights law
      Sir Noel Malcolm

    328. Unionist Media BDSM Club says:

      iain mhor says:
      29 January, 2020 at 10:00 pm
      @Unionist Media BDSM Club 7:39pm

      I’ve had this discussion literally hundreds of times online and off- and this is the first time anyone’s expressed any incomprehension about the point behind the proposal.

      It really isn’t that difficult or strange.

      Oh well.

    329. K1 says:

      Lousy ‘marriages’ can oft last longer than you’d think. The number of years together is no measure of a ‘great relationship’. Why they keep punting that shit is beyond me. We are like a spouse in an abusive relationship, every time our partner goes too far and/or we get too close to leaving, they promise the fucking earth and then when we stay they knock the fuck out of us again.

      I mean seriously the SNP are just the fucking lawyers in this scenario, no one can now figure out whether the change of staff since 2014 is either hell bent on ‘making ithe relationship work’ or are seriously trying to find a way out for the abused partner.

      They’re certainly the only cunts making any money out of it…on our behalf.

      Fucking huge sigh.

    330. Heart of Galloway says:

      I Golfnut@10.11.
      And was Mike Russell’s statement in the chamber that there WILL BE a referendum a coincidence?
      Russell may have had a croaky voice but he didnae miss Carlaiq bw, Rennie, Leonard and co and hit the wa’.
      Mair than that – Nicola Sturgeon put the sovereignty of the Scottish people and the Claim of Right smack bang at the top of her speech.
      Yet judging by the venom of some on here you would think she had wrapped herself in a Union Jack and signed a friendship pact with BoJo in her own blood.
      Or something like that.
      The independence movement’a patience has been sorely tested – almost beyond the point of endurance over the course of nearly four years.
      There have been mis-steps and false dawns and in the snap 2017 GE disaster was averted only by the narrowest of margins.
      Our cause has been buffeted and starved of hope yet it survived and rec yovered its strength to a formidable degssas
      Nicola Sturgeon will be acutely aware of tthat the immense energy n pent up on the Indy side cannot be allowed to dissipate.
      So tomorrow I believe she will sidestep Johnson’s refusal to parley over Section 30 and dismiss it
      with the contempt it deserves.
      Instead she will state that Scottish democracy will be upheld and the sovereign wishes of the people of Scotland honoured..
      That after the granting of royal assent to the Referendums (Scotland) Act Scotland’s right to hold IndyRef2 is beyond legal dispute in the eyes of the EU and the international community.
      And that preparations for a poll this year are already underway.
      All this, of course is speculation.
      Will it come to pass? We’ll see.

    331. Breeks says:

      Call out to the floor…

      How do the sovereign people of Scotland constitute themselves to formally challenge the subjugation of Scotland at the UN Court of International Justice and the Council of Europe?

      A Labour Government was actually forced to form both the Scottish Parliament and the Welsh Assembly by threats to remove the UK from the CoE (Council of Europe) if they did not comply. A country cannot be a member of the EU without adhering to the democratic security principles and policy laid down by the CoE and can be ejected if they don’t.

      If the Council of Europe has a say on the expulsion of members, and recognises the importance of representation, surely it is worth consulting regarding the forced removal of a sovereign state by consequence of unlawful colonial subjugation? Don’t forget, it is only Recognition we’ll be seeking.

      Let us then elect ourselves a figurehead who respects the Constitutional Sovereignty of our Nation, then work towards to unproroguing Scotland’s true Parliament which has not sat in Session for over 300 years.

      “Sovereign” bodies can simply ignore the SNP and brush right past them. We’ll just march right past Holyrood, AGAIN! Just like we did on the AUOB march, without so much as a wave of recognition from “our” Parliament and “Scottish Government”. They are only there to further the reach and credibility of Westminster as our overlord apparent, which makes them enemies of Sovereign Scotland, “…we should exert ourselves at once to drive him out as our enemy and a subverter of his own rights and ours, and make some other man who was well able to defend us our King…”.

      Be in no doubt, when the Declaration of Arbroath was written, it was a pains to specifically reject and cauterise the damage of a rogue ruling element which recognised the sovereignty of England over the Constitutional sovereignty of Scotland. If the SNP existed in 1320, you would not find their seal upon the Declaration of Arbroath, you’d find them clinging meekly to the robes of Edward 11’s false claim over Scotland even after his rout at Bannockburn..

      The SNP did exist in 2016 and moved unbidden to surrender the democratic will of the Scottish people to reject Brexit, and forsake the Constitutional Sovereignty of Scotland all of their own volition, and wouldn’t be shamed out of it for the following four years. They bowed their heads to Westminster as their overlord and ruler.

      Let us raise the Sovereign banner of Scotland one more time friends, raise it high, and look around the field to see who answers Sovereign Scotland’s call. No frauds or rogue politicians, just us, the ordinary sovereign people of Scotland. We won’t need big numbers as such, not at first, just enough of us to bring a Constitutional challenge of our unlawful subjugation to a Constitutional Courtroom. The Declaration of Arbroath will shine for Scotland once more.

      What say you YES? Will you be the focus point and take Scotland’s Sovereign as your call? The SNP wants to reform you anyway. My, such gratitude and hubris…AUOB? The Common Weal? Craig Murray? Peter Bell? I confess, you real Scottish patriots all look pretty alike to me…

    332. stuart mctavish says:

      Taking heart from the wee sing song in Brussels yesterday it is clear that Scots can still find respect in at least one union of nations, should that continue to be their want, provided they enjoy the sovereignty to ensure it.

      Accordingly, being the last one available, today might be an excellent day for Holyrood to (perhaps ironically) protect the sovereignty of the people by revoking, in whole or in part, the UK’s article 50 notice – assuming it has not already done so via secret side letters.

    333. Ottomanboi says:

      “England our island home”

    334. gus1940 says:

      Yesterday’s rendition of Auld Lang Syne by the EU parliament sends a very significant message re their attitude to Scotland – a mild kick in the slats to Boris and his bunch of xenophobic fascists.

    335. Sharny Dubs says:

      Breaks man, ye fair dirrile the harte strings

    336. Sharny Dubs says:

      Correction Breeks! Ferkin auto correct!,

    337. Ottomanboi says:

      It is essentially all about England. The English do much better PR than we do. They’ve been fabricating and swallowing their national fiction for centuries. It’s so good that many Scots and rather too many elsewhere fall for the myth, the bluff, the snake oil.
      Anglophile is a term pregnant with existential significance whose semiotics are the currency of Anglo-saxon world trade. The obverse of that coin is stamped ‘Rebellious Scots to Crush’.


    338. Kangaroo says:

      Breeks and others

      In the btl comments I outline exactly why I believe we have a Legal open goal to #DissolveTheUnion. If I am correct and NS does not perform then we need to get a legal case going.

      Critique of my offering please.

    339. Rm says:

      Watching the Parliament TV down at Westminster, Boring Johnstone the English Prime Minister keeps saying our country when he’s speaking about the union of four countries in fact all the English MPs do the same every time they say this the SNP MPs should be hitting right back and tell them it’s not one country it’s four countries in a union, supposedly an equal union to benefit all the separate countries which it doesn’t, the SNP MPs have to up the anti, come on boys and girls keep at it.

    340. Republicofscotland says:

      Huge gathering outside Holyrood tomorrow, with quite a few speakers, thousands expected to attend. At least six countries will have camera crews reporting and asking questions.

      The organisers of the event are gobsmacked at the size and interest that has surrounded the gathering.

      We must turnout in large numbers, the eyes of the world will be upon us, as will Westminsters. We mustnt disappoint.

      The event begins at 5pm outside Holyrood, be there if you can.

      Let’s show Johnson and Farage that we don’t in anyway support their triumphalism over Europe, nor their Westminster party that they’re throwing tomorrow.

    341. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Fiona Hyslop being questioned by SP committee over GRC etc right now –

    342. iain mhor says:

      Unionist BDSM Club 2:54am

      Well, I was confused.
      Why are you having a referendum, in order to facilitate an independence referendum and asking “ the forthcoming referendum’ – ie there is already an independence referendum ocurring, the forthcoming one – it’s not in doubt, it’s the “forthcoming referendum”, the one scheduled to happen – so why have a pre-referendum?

      Even, if for some reason, your pre-referendum question is held – in what way does your question bind the government to respect it? They would have to respect the result of that pre-referendum, in order for it to bind the ‘forthcoming referendum’ – how would that be secured? Perhaps hold a pre-pre referendum? Surely a binding agreement (like the Edinburgh agreement) would be the scenario.

      There was no requirement for a pre-referendum in 2014, What the Edinburgh agreement sought to prevent, was Westminster ignoring the result and implementation – like perhaps ignoring the result of your proposed pre-referendum, my proposal, any referendum.

      There is nothing in my suggestion which prevents Westminster ignoring anything. It was a suggestion to circumvent the “Reserved/ Within competence argument. The only way to have Westminster hold to the result, is an agreement to do so (even that is no guarantee as history tells us) a pre-referendum won’t do that. Mine doesn’t either.

      Even (if I get the gist of your suggestion) it is to show that there is a ‘sovereign majority’ in Scotland who voted that Westminster should honour a ‘forthcoming’ referendum – that is redundant – a referendum already does that.
      Any referendum challenges a government to ignore the ‘will of the populace’ – which is why, even though always ‘advisory’, UK governments usually don’t ignore the results of referendums, whether there are ‘agreements’ in place or not.

      But they could challenge them in court, because the law, the legislation, is what is actually written. It is written explicitly that the UK government is under no obligation to respect the result of any referendum, that constitutional issues are reserved and that it may change any law to suit, at any time (even retrospectively) up to and including the entirety of the Scotland Act(s)

      An S30 is to prevent the requirement for having to attempt a means to circumvent the “reserved constitutional issue”, or at least keep it from interminable law courts. An ‘Agreement’ is to bind Westminster to respect the result’. The trick is finding a way to prevent Westminster opposing a direct Indyref in law and actually get to hold one.
      That of course is playing within the rules of Westminster and UK law and English precedence of sovereignty. – Scotland could ignore that concept in its entirety.

      In chess, there is the situation of the players knowing the result of the game without the pieces being played – the result is inevitable. They will know the possible moves and the outcome in advance – the game will be conceded, or a draw offered – even though there are many possible moves which could still to be played. That comes as absolute puzzlement to the casual onlooker.
      Sometimes, one player will cause the game to be played to its conclusion – forcing the opponent to ‘make the moves’ and even if they know the inevitable result will be their capitulation. Make them win it.

      If I, you, or anyone else can think of the move to make, so can Westminster and vice-versa. Both your and my suggestions are merely thought exercises. I just couldn’t think of what your suggestion achieved. I am quite prepared for anyone to kick dirty big holes in my suggestions as well, I’m probably not that great at chess or logic.

    343. Colin Alexander says:

      Winnie Ewing, as Mr Robert Peffers (Hope you’re okay Rab), liked to remind us, said:

      “The Scottish Parliament, adjourned on the 25th day of March in the year 1707, is hereby reconvened”.

      We now need Nicola Sturgeon to add: “Today, I announce the complete restoration of the Scottish Parliament as the Supreme Parliament for Scotland, exercising the sovereign power of the people of Scotland.

      The Scottish Parliament shall no longer be a devolved parliament administering powers devolved from Westminster by the so-called power of UK Parliamentary sovereignty. Scotland’s Parliament shall exercise the sovereign power of the people of Scotland, for Scotland’s people are sovereign and that sovereignty is immutable.

      As we remain in union as part of the United Kingdom, and shall endeavour to work with Westminster as equal partners in a spirit of cooperation, for as long as it remains appropriate to do so.

      Therefore, the Scottish Parliament shall devolve powers to Westminster to enable the Union to continue.
      However, constitutional issues and other certain matters, such as the best form of government for Scotland’s people shall be a matter reserved to Scotland.

    344. Ottomanboi says:

      At this juncture, conventional opposition being fruitless, the SNP deputies, for in a Scottish context that is what they all are, ought to quit the crumbling Palace of Westminster, return home and convene a National Constituent Assembly.
      The SNP government wouldn’t like it and the ScotBrit establishment neither but who cares. Scotland needs the shock equivalent of an Easter Rising. Kick start date 12 April coming up.
      That union-rag outside Holyrood needs to come down.
      What’s Scots and Gàidhlig for Sans-culottes.

    345. CameronB Brodie says:

      Like yourself, I’m only an armchair lawyer, though I do have some knowledge of constitutional law and stuff.

      Treaty law is part of the structure of international law, and the Treaty of Union sets out the legal obligations of union that were later ratified by the Acts of Union. Westminster does not own the Treaty, it is part of international law. Westminster’s lack of respect for Treaty law, indicates Westminster does not feel bound by the international rule-of-law. Britain is fast approaching rogue state status, though many would argue Britain has always been a rogue state. What we are witnessing is the British state’s inability to transcend the Establishment’s colonial imagination and culture.

      Full text.

      Constitutional Democracy Encounters International Law: Terms of Engagement

      There is a tension inherent to the idea of constitutional self-government, as it is understood by many constitutional lawyers, and the claims to authority made by international law. As International law has expanded its scope, loosened its link to state consent and strengthened compulsory adjudication and enforcement mechanisms, this tension has become increasingly difficult to ignore by constitutional lawyers.

      Not surprisingly one of the most pressing and most written about questions of contemporary constitutional law is how to think about and doctrinally manage the relationship between the national constitution and international law. These debates have long moved away from the unhelpful dichotomy between monism and dualism and generally favor more pragmatic contextual analysis. What has generally been missing, however, is the reflection on the commitments of principle that underlie the tradition of democratic constitutionalism and connecting these to the constitutional doctrines that define the terms of engagement between national and international law.

      The first part of the article provides such a framework. The second part provides some examples that show how this framework can help explain, assess and guide the practice of national courts when they confront the question how they should engage international law. These examples focus on recent cases in the European Union addressing the relevance of human rights Treaties to domestic rights litigation as well as the domestic enforcement of Security Council decisions.

    346. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      From Twitter…
      Philip Sim
      Incredible timing; the Referendums (Scotland) Act 2020 got royal assent yesterday, at the same time as MSPs were voting to endorse the idea of having a referendum in 2020
      9:36 am · 30 Jan 2020

    347. CameronB Brodie says:

      Scotland is getting pumped from both ends, as the Scottish government does not appear to appreciate the interface between constitutional law, human rights and economic opportunity. They certainly don’t appear to understand or respect the Law of Persons, and the Scottish civil service has been ordered to ignore it for good measure. This suggest the capacity of Scotland’s government is under attacked from within the structure of government.

      Westminster is clearly determined not to recognise Scotland legally, and unwilling to uphold Treaty obligations. The preferential treatment of NI ensures the Treaty of Union is a dead duck though. IMHO.

      Full text.

      Parliamentary Democracy and International Treaties

    348. iain mhor says:

      @kangaroo 9:14am

      Interesting article, thanks for the link.

      Re: your argument/suggestion Btl – not much to proffer, other than to note a ‘breach of treaty minutiae’ isn’t necessarily it. The ‘Treaty’ has already historically been breached in several places, it doesn’t require the N.I example to trigger it. That is not to say because such breaches were never challenged historically, they shouldn’t be dusted off now.

      As for N.I and the ‘Dominion’ side issue btl- well that is already intereting and I covered Dominions and Protectorates before here. Suffice to say, Scotland (or N.I) as a Dominion (or Protectorate) would be afforded far more rights than enjoyed at present as a devolved parliament of the UK – both domestically and Internationally.
      Devolution is not the best of both worlds it’s the worst of both worlds. The much vaunted federalism is potentially better, but requires an English Parliament and I have also discussed that.

      As for Legal proceedings and Courts – well they are always an option. However it puts us in Edward Longshanks/Baliol territory, if the idea is to settle our right to Independence – asking a third party to decide.
      A referendum has, for good reason, been proposed as the preferred way; as it encapsulates the idea of Scots ‘sovereignty of the people’ more than any other method. The trick is holding one and the means to facilitate it.

      Here, the law (Scots) may indeed have a role; but it cannot be allowed, that a legal ruling on whether Scots may speak, or whether Scots may choose or any such choices, is a settled matter in law in perpetuity – this indeed also holds for the ‘Treaty & Acts of Union” and any referendum past or future.
      Law stems from the people and their government, courts merely make decisions in law, they don’t make law nor uphold law.

      For an example of that, I refer you to the UK; whereby even a Supreme Court decision may be made impotent, by the passing of ex-post facto legislation in Parliament. The subsequent enactment (Act of Law) thus counters the initial “Law” on which a ‘decision was made, rendering it null and void.

    349. CameronB Brodie says:

      Even British academia does not want to recognise the Treaty obligations that underpin the political marriage of Scotland and England.

      Treaties, Brexit and the Constitution

      ….Treaties shape the way that the UK will leave the EU, but they also assume a new and more urgent importance because the UK is leaving the EU. Issues such as agriculture, fisheries, and trade are currently closely regulated by EU law and by treaties between the EU and third states. Brexit is intended to give the UK a greater measure of control over these rules. By this logic, in order to regulate these issues after Brexit, the UK Government will need to conclude more treaties, and rely less on EU law-making processes. With Brexit, treaties will therefore assume a greater role in the governance of the UK. However, unless something is done, democratic scrutiny of treaties will actually diminish….

    350. Gary45% says:

      HS2 on the agenda today,(Tory Desperation )
      Mibees “Here’s your S30, but you have to sign up to 8.9% of the forever increasing debt of the pointless train set”?
      Lets hope not.

    351. CameronB Brodie says:

      It’s almost as if time began in 1707, when the yooniverse came into existance.


    352. kapelmeister says:

      Scotland is European through and through, by outgoing spirit, by instinct and, never forget, by self-interest.

      Scotland was British, first by imposition, then by conditioning. Now, Scotland’s Britishness is nothing more than geographic.

      21st century Scotland was supposed to about being forward looking and outward looking. That was the ethos behind the return of a Scottish Parliament in 1999. And it has been successful. Now British or English nationalists want to forcibly return Scotland to the nineteenth century.

      Britishness is brutishness. That’s now very clear indeed. Scotland is not brutish, or British.

    353. CameronB Brodie says:

      Are Scots really the new “sons of Ham”, doomed to perpetual slavery? That’s certainly how Westminster appears to view those living in Scotland. That’s because English legal culture considers itself immutable and superior to international law. Westminster is also a racist patriarchy.


      It has been seventeen years since South Africa became a democracy under a supreme law, the Constitution. With the transition came a radical shift in the role of the legal system in our country. Under apartheid, the law was an instrument of oppression. In fact, the chief feature of apartheid was that it was a system of racist subordination that was articulated, enforced, and minutely regulated through the law. That legacy the constitutional negotiators determined to cast away. Instead, they embodied a series of high aspirations and promises in a visionary and ambitious document, the nation’s founding Constitution.

      In the nearly two decades since democracy, the South African
      Constitution has become widely regarded as one of the world’s most progressive founding charters.1 And the Court that is its guardian, South Africa’s highest court in constitutional matters, has given resonant content to the promise of constitutional rights. In a range of ground-breaking decisions, it has, for instance: …..

      ….A distinctive feature of the Constitution was its treatment of international law. Under apartheid, international law was reviled as a source of alien and hostile doctrines. For instance, on 30 November 1973, the United Nations General Assembly opened for signature and ratification the International Convention on the Suppression and Punishment of the Crime of Apartheid (ICSPCA), which 76 countries have ratified.7

      Instead of treating international law as an enemy, the Constitution embraced it. It provided that international agreements that were approved by resolution of both houses of the legislature became binding “on the Republic.”8 It declared customary international law “law in the Republic,” unless inconsistent with statute or the Constitution.9 It required courts, when interpreting legislation, to prefer “any reasonable interpretation” that conforms with international law, over any alternative inconsistent interpretation.10

      And, most significantly, it made provision for international law in the Bill of Rights itself. It expressly cast an obligation on courts, when interpreting the Bill of Rights, to “consider international law.”11

    354. manandboy says:

      Casting my mind back.


      So for a lifetime we have been brainwashed into believing that England is everything, while Scotland is nothing very much.

      Even now, much of Scotland ‘s educated classes firmly believe that Scotland is poor, and depends on England’s generosity.

      Such generational gullibility ought to fill Scotland with shame. Instead, so many are saturated in mind and heart with a British self-image. And still it goes on.

      England has waged a full-time propaganda war against Scotland for at least 70 years, while pretending that the UK is a union of equals.

      Who will rescue Scotland from this wretched ‘Marriage’ with England in which Scots are trapped by such enormous political and media pressure? From where shall the help we need so desperately come? No one on earth will come to our rescue.

      Then may Heaven help us.

    355. Ottomanboi says:

      The British State’s leaving the EU is no time for maudlin sentiment. It is an opportunity for Scotland to land punches in the systemic gut by becoming nasty, awkward and uncooperative. Even now it is not too late.
      It is certainly too late for ‘legalism’. Besides, the British establishment has too much experience and international clout to engage. Marginalize and ignore, works every time

    356. kapelmeister says:

      Cameron @ 11:24

      Very interesting. The South African constitution, modern and progressive. The UK constitution, the polar opposite.

    357. Republicofscotland says:

      “Incredible timing; the Referendums (Scotland) Act 2020 got royal assent yesterday, at the same time as MSPs were voting to endorse the idea of having a referendum in 2020
      9:36 am · 30 Jan 2020”

      “A Bill for an Act of the Scottish Parliament to make provision for the holding of referendums throughout Scotland; to make provision about such referendums and other referendums held under Acts of the Scottish Parliament.Current Status of the BillThis Scottish Government Bill was introduced by the Cabinet Secretary for Government Business and Constitutional Relations, Michael Russell MSP, on 28 May 2019. Royal Assent received on 29 January 2020.”

      Here’s the details.

    358. Breeks says:

      Colin Alexander says:
      30 January, 2020 at 9:49 am
      Winnie Ewing, as Mr Robert Peffers (Hope you’re okay Rab), liked to remind us, said:

      “The Scottish Parliament, adjourned on the 25th day of March in the year 1707, is hereby reconvened”.

      It has never sat easily on my shoulders calling Holyrood a Parliament. The definition of a Parliament is the sovereign seat of Government. If it isn’t sovereign, then don’t call it a Parliament.

      I didn’t object to the misuse of the word. Party because I was weak, partly because I hadn’t the means to object, and partly because I thought it no bad thing that Scotland got used to having ‘a’ Parliament, even if it wasn’t the real thing. It is possible that “Parliament” it could have grown, flexed it’s Constitutional muscle and slowly evolved into a Constitutionally Sovereign Assembly that could properly warrant the title of Parliament.

      Friday will see that delusion shattered, and the rude reversal of Holyrood abandoning Scotland and affirming itself the servile instrument and play-thing of Westminster policy and restrictive legislation.

      I now wish I had spoken out about the word Parliament. Scotland has no seat of sovereign government. Scotland has no Parliament. That’s the myth. Scotland has Holyrood, the Assembly chamber set up and constituted by Westminster, for the purposes of administering Westminster’s law in Scotland.

      Scotland’s Parliament exists only in abstract form, prorogued and in perpetual stasis until the sovereign people of Scotland recall it to sit. That is precisely what we should do, and do it now. Fuck Holyrood and fuck the Scotland Act. Tear one up and burn the other. I care not what happens to Westminster’s colonial tendrils.

      Stand up for Scotland. Even supposing we are down to our last 100 souls, the sovereign Nation of Scotland is constitutionally quorate.

      Calling Holyrood our Parliament is dressing up a sheep in wolves clothing.

    359. Frank Gillougley says:

      Iain Mhor 9.42am

      Iain, I have no wish to be arsey here, but i do know a bit about chess as a metaphor. Interesting parallels, indeed.

      1. Sometimes a draw is all that is needed by a player to secure an overall bigger win (as in a tournament).
      2. True, one can argue (many GMs do) you should never accept a draw, or resign as this assumes your opponent will not make any mistakes.
      And then there’s 3. the famous Zugzwang situation, (which I am sure you know) where a player is put in a position where they are forced to make a bad, or losing move.
      Which of these apply to Scotland and Westminster?
      Time will tell.

    360. Mist001 says:

      Oh well, one day to go. Has Ian Blackford said any more about not allowing Scotland to be dragged out of the EU against its will?

      Because it’s very quiet, not a peep in the papers, on FB, nothing.

      The SNP are either keeping their heads down or they’re going to spring an almighty surprise tomorrow.

      Hmm….I wonder which it is?

    361. Golfnut says:

      @ Kangaroo. 9:15.

      Just a quick comment as I’m on my way out. No consideration regarding Scotland whatsoever from Peter North, no surprise there then.
      Good argument from you, but I would add that the Treaty between Scotland and England was laid down as an International Treaty between two Sovereign states. Subsequent internal changes within what was termed the first empire, i.e. England,Wales and Ireland were dealt with by internal mechanisms, using English law,and did not pertain to any Sovereign state other than England, nor did they by any stretch of the imaginations meet the criteria or status of an International Treaty. Those changes have no bearing whatsoever on the Treaty of Union.

    362. vlad (not that one) says:

      In the final decade of the Austro-Hungarian Empire Jaroslav Hašek founded a Party of Moderate Progress within the Law.
      I trust SNP will prove to be more ambitious.

    363. Ottomanboi says:

      It helps to view the so-called union treaty as a bill of sale. A ‘parcel of rogues’ who flogged their country for financial and social preferment.
      The English establishment regard it as such, it explains so much of the smugness and hubris. Those proposing to use its clauses as a scroll to beat the system with are wasting effort.
      Something more direct is required.
      The Catalans expected some support in their cause from the EU, however the might of the Spanish State prevailed. Scots voting to remain really didn’t cut much mustard in Brussels either. Both countries are perceived as autonomous regions of a unitary state not ‘nations’ per se. Both dealt rather poor cards in this game.
      The view is, if Scots and Catalans really wish sovereignty they must do more than they are currently doing but do not expect a helping hand
      The quandary is what exactly, what must be done and just how far to the edge to take it?
      The world is a harsh place for struggling stateless nations. The ‘international community’s’ record in such cases is lamentable; much noise signifying ‘our hands are tied’ syndrome. Such a ‘community’ which stood, crocodile tears flowing and watched the catastrophes unfold in Iraq, Afghanistan, Sudan, Somalia, Syria, Myanmar, Yemen inter alia is not going to be much use to a Scotland lamenting its self-inflicted plight. Certainly not when the big players’ interests are threatened.
      Beyond the cheap schmatz, sentiment and sympathy, you’re on your own.
      Hard, innit!

    364. Golfnut says:

      @ Kangaroo.

      One other point, a country’s boundaries are defined by International law through legal jurisdiction. Scots law was specifically safeguarded within the Treaty of Union which is still extant. If it wasn’t their would have been absolutely no need to transfer 6,000 square miles of seas from Scots to English jurisdiction. There would have been no need for the International courts to rule that the Lockerbie bomber be tried under Scots law, or for areas at the Hague to be declared temporarily Scottish territory, nor would their ever have been any need for Westminster legislation to be compatible with Scotls law before it could be enacted.

    365. Republicofscotland says:

      Well Richard Leonard had the audacity to mention the scheme that the Scottish government use to replace Labours scandalous PFI, at FMQ’s, as not cost effective and that borrowing the funds would’ve been a better bet.

      The FM replied that Labour voted against Scotland having increased powers to borrow.

      Willie Rennie complained about the NHS, but when told by the FM that Westminster had cut billions from the Scottish budget beginning when his party were in power with the Tories via David Cameron, and that he should shoulder some of the responsibility for that, turned ashen faced and used his second question to the FM in a semi rant fashion.

      Running Scotland with one hand behind her back must be tough enough for Sturgeon, without the likes of Westminster and their branch office managers at Holyrood constantly trying to undermine her and the Scottish government at every turn.

      Let alone those who want a quick route to independence complaining that she should be doing this and that thrown in for good measure.

    366. Dr Jim says:

      The level of arrogance in England is stratospheric in it’s demands for the EU to give them access to things they don’t want to pay for
      Last night I watched a completely hostile BBC interview of Jean Claude Junker in which the BBC on behalf of the UK government accused the EU of demanding ongoing fishing rights and using blackmail to do it

      Jean Claude Junker countered by saying “We are not the ones leaving the EU then demanding full access to EU financial services without paying for them, the UK seems to think it can have its Brexit then continue on as though nothing has happened taking all the benefits of the EU with it for free, this is part of negotiations”

      Mr Junker also said “The UKs popularity in the world is greatly diminished by Brexit”

    367. robertknight says:

      RoS @ 1:02

      “Running Scotland with one hand behind her back must be tough enough for Sturgeon”

      Hot kitchens come to mind. I’m sorry, but I take a somewhat French view of politicians – they are the ‘tail’ on our collective ‘dog’. As for Her Majestie’s Loyal Opposition at Holyrood – a schoolboy’s debating club would roast them so by rights NS should be able to handle them with ease. (Credit where it’s due, she invariably does!).

      I see that the National has on the front page that Holyrood voted for IndyRef2. I’m sure BawJaws near choked on his avocados on toast when he saw the headline and at this very minute is consulting with his ministers with a view to writing a swift apology to NS and suggesting dates where they can meet to sign off a deal.

      I’ve not seen anything to that effect on any news outlet however – can’t think why…

    368. Colin Alexander says:

      “a quick route to independence”

      As opposed to what, may I ask?

      Waiting for Imperial consent?

    369. TheBuchanLoony says:

      Nicola’s plan seems to be working…

      Should Scotland be an independent country? (YouGov, 22nd-27th January 2020):

      Yes 51% (+7)
      No 49% (-7)

    370. The DVD I have of Joan of Arc has a Scotsman on the English side shouting abuse at Joan and that is the only reference to the Scots in the whole DVD the English trying to change history to their liking and hoping to convince the gullable they just keep telling lies to try to justify their actions because the truth destroys them you note a Scotsman shouting abuse not an Englishman they would not do things like that???

    371. CameronB Brodie says:

      Without a respect for constitutional law. government tends to totalitarianism (see Brexit).


      The United Kingdom (UK) has triggered the mechanism to exit the European Union (EU). Such a decision was taken at a referendum held in 2016. The referendum was, however, not legally binding, and only England and Wales, but not Scotland or Northern Ireland, endorsed the option to exit the EU.

      UK’s EU exit can be seen as the UK’s withdrawal from the Treaty on European Union (TEU) and the Treaty on the Functioning of European Union (TFEU) pursuant to Article 50 TEU. But the TEU and TFEU are not ordinary treaties of public international law. They are constitutional instruments of a complex supra-national polity – the EU. Brexit is thus in many respects more than just an ordinary treaty withdrawal; it can be seen as the UK’s functional secession from the EU.

      This creates tensions between the rules of treaty withdrawal and tenets of democratic decision-making on territorial matters in a constitutional democracy. This article analyzes such tensions and contrasts Brexit with the reasoning of the Supreme Court of Canada in the Quebec case, holding that democracy was not a simple majority rule. Yet, it is questionable whether the treaty-law logic of Article 50 allows for accommodation of the Quebec principles.

      The article also demonstrates how the European Convention of Human Rights could step in to protect certain already-acquired rights of EU citizens after Brexit. Given the complexity and diversity of rights stemming from EU
      citizenship, however, there is no complete legal certainty without either an agreement between the EU and the UK to this effect, or further development of the existing case law on the matter.

    372. robertknight says:

      BuchanLoony says:
      30 January, 2020 at 2:03 pm
      Nicola’s plan seems to be working…

      Aye, but for who?

      The most calamitous period in Scottish political history since 1707 and we’re only hitting 51% – not allowing for a margin of error.

      WE SHOULD BE AT 61% FFS!

      “Working” you say! Wake up man!

    373. CameronB Brodie says:

      And one to counter the Eurosceptic myths that have been embedded in the English/British cultural identity, through the media. These myths have found far less purchase in Scotland, so far.

      National Identity, Constitutional Identity, and Sovereignty in the EU

      5 Conclusion

      This essay has attempted to challenge the assumption – often taken for granted – that what Article 4(2) TEU protects is, in fact, constitutional identity, even though the Treaty provision speaks of national identity. It has been contended, first, that a reading of Article 4(2) TEU through the lens of constitutional identity does not rest on a sound theory of legal interpretation.

      Second, it has been demonstrated that a requirement of respect for constitutional identity, at least as envisioned by several domestic constitutional courts, is premised on a different normative proposition than the Treaties’ requirement of respect for national identity. Whereas the constitutional identity doctrine articulated by certain national courts is based on a claim to sovereignty on behalf of the Member States, the national identity clause laid down in Article 4(2) TEU implements fundamental principles of political morality, which call on a multinational polity to pay heed to the identity of its constituent national communities.

      A distinct but related issue addressed in this paper is whether it would have been better if the Treaties had concentrated on respect for the Member States’ sovereignty, or constitutional identities, rather than the States’ national identities. This question was answered in the negative. The Union’s multinational character, the lack of a single theory of sovereignty that is generally endorsed, at Union as well as Member State level, and the observation that policy areas have become increasingly intertwined in Europe led us to conclude that the Treaties’ focus on national identity is actually to be welcomed.

      As a consequence, the concept of national identity should not be discarded lightly as being too vague or overly political. It is precisely the task of legal commentators to lay bare the meaning of the notion as it is employed in Article 4(2) TEU, and it is my view that in doing so they should take due account of the moral principles underlying the identity clause. To be sure, this will not be an easy job.

      Moreover, it is only natural that legal scholars feel more comfortable with conventional legal concepts, such as constitutional identity. Yet this is no excuse for simply reading a reference to constitutional identity into Article 4(2) TEU, especially when the text of that provision does not make mention of the concept and compelling reasons exist for putting national identity, rather than constitutional identity or State sovereignty, front and centre in the Treaties.

    374. CameronB Brodie says:

      Austerity traumatised Britain to the extent it was receptive to far-right xenophobia. Or at least England and Wales were. This is how illiberal governments strip their citizenry of their human rights, by creating a problem, stimulating a reaction, then offering a solution.

      Wakey, wakey Scotland, Westminster is treating us like livestock.

      The European Union and the Identity of Member States

    375. JMD says:

      Robert Knight 2.47

      WE SHOULD BE AT 61% FFS!

      And how do you know we’re not? I’m not saying that we definitely are but I am saying that we don’t really know what the actual overall reality on the ground is because polls can’t be trusted.

      There seems to be quite a lot of people who are fully aware of the various techniques used by so-called “elites” when they want to influence/control public opinion but who have a blind spot when it comes to polls and seem to think that they’re somehow sacrosanct and above manipulation and corruption. It’s impossible to view that attitude as anything other than extremely naive.

      Most if not all of the major polling companies in uk are owned and operated by people with strong connections to the WM regime. Expecting them to be completely objective and impartial when conducting a poll on something as hot button as Scottish independence is, like I said, extremely naive.

      The latest one from YouGov is a case in point. Honestly I don’t know what percentage of support for independence there is but according to them it’s been 50/50 for YEARS now, it’s really getting old and they’ll soon need to think up some new wheeze if they don’t want to start looking utterly ridiculous.

      Classic example of fake polls – USElex 2016, ALL the main polls had Hillary “Wall St’s Favourite Warmonger” Clinton winning by a massive landslide or something close to it, but instead the other nightmare actually beat the US establshment’s favoured candidate and for about 10 minutes the polling companies admitted they had “a problem”.

    376. schrodingers cat says:

      TheBuchanLoony says:
      30 January, 2020 at 2:03 pm
      Nicola’s plan seems to be working…

      Should Scotland be an independent country? (YouGov, 22nd-27th January 2020):

      Yes 51% (+7)
      No 49% (-7)

      Yes it is working. yougov is the least yes friendly poll the others will be at 53% yes.

      we have still to leave the eu.

      it is also in line with previous polls predictions.
      nb, they also predicted, in the event of no deal polls go to 57-59%

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