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Wings Over Scotland


Here we are again

Posted on January 30, 2020 by

At 51-49.

But it’s weirder than that.

Because while a narrow majority of Scots now favour independence, as they have done from time to time since early September 2014, they don’t want to be given a vote to make it happen.

Even five years down the line there’s only a marginal plurality, not reaching 50% of voters. A sixth of the population still isn’t sure whether 2025 would be too soon, more than a decade after the original vote. And most are still against one even if the SNP racks up a ninth mandate next May.

Which may be because they’re pretty sick of all politicians.

Not a single one gets a net positive trust rating. Of eight Unionist options (poor wee Patrick Harvie doesn’t even get onto the subs bench as a second Yes voice), the most popular are both essentially ex-politicians, and the likely leaders of the Scottish Tories and Scottish Labour at next year’s election both record trust ratings in single figures, which is utterly extraordinary. Rudyard Lanyard is distrusted by SIX TIMES as many people as trust him, and nearly 10 times as many simply have no clue who he is.

While a Yes majority is a clear positive, none of this is great news. The fact that public opinion is still set against a referendum for years to come gives the UK government an easy excuse to reject one. After all, if the voters REALLY wanted independence why wouldn’t they want a vote on it?

It also tells the SNP that they’re secure in power unless they choose to rock the boat. Their opposition is a shambles with leaders nobody’s even heard of, let alone trust. For all three of the likely Unionist party leaders at Holyrood next year, “Don’t Know” is the most common view Scottish voters have about them.

That category is also the biggest gainer in the poll generally, with “Don’t Know” picking up votes from across the spectrum and recording its largest figure since early 2017.

Scotland is paralysed, and is also opposed to the only thing that’ll end the paralysis. We’d better all hope the First Minister has a pretty big dose of political Dulcolax ready for the nation tomorrow.

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    1. 30 01 20 15:57

      Here we are again | speymouth

    165 to “Here we are again”

    1. HYUFD says:

      So Scots still don’t want indyref2 for at least 5 years and Boris won’t grant one to Sturgeon while he is PM anyway.

      Including Don’t Knows only 43% back Yes, less than the 45% who voted Yes in 2014

    2. Sharny Dubs says:

      The SNP have been elected on the mandate of delivering independence.

      Since 2014 ref they have mismanaged every opportunity gifted to them by circumstances. Resorting to “smoke and mirrors” to try and excuse their ineptitude.

      If the SNP were a company I believe the shareholders would be entitled to demand something be done. The buck stops here and all that guff.

      A change in strategy, senior management shake-up, whatever.

      Hoping for a “silver bullet” tomorrow IMHO is too little too late.

    3. Den Cairns says:

      Years of Colonial brainwashing have helped produce the dunnoers with the nawbags bringing up the rear. Let’s hope Time remedies this.

    4. Ruglonian says:

      So utterly depressing!

      Tomorrow’s big announcement better bring something positive – beyond mere words, affirmative action, a conclusive plan, a date for the progression of our cause, something tangible to get folk actually motivated and dispel the myriad doubts – or I see serious trouble ahead!!

      On a (substantially) lighter note – and not really O/T at all – regardless of what the announcement brings, the active grassroots have a weekend of serious work planned!

      The NYR are hosting delegates from local groups – with the wider movement, such as members of national campaigns like BfS, attending for networking purposes etc on the Sunday – this weekend in Perth.

      We’ll be concerning ourselves with campaigning matters that we’re actually in control of, the practical application of the indyapp networking tool, how we collaborate nationwide with maximum efficiency, and as a result we’ll substantially strengthen this movement so that regardless of what’s ahead of us we’ll be fighting fit!!

      There’s still a few spots left – you can come along if you feel that you have a positive practical contribution to make, you don’t strictly have to be a delegate – so check out NYR on twitter and facebook or book directly on eventbrite.
      (I’ll be there to welcome you in, register you, and help facilitate the weekend’s activities, so no excuses not to come alone!)

    5. MajorBloodnok says:

      Well, at least there’s something happening in Scottish politics at last.

    6. Tony Hay says:

      We will see where the polls are in a few months time and this is only one poll…..

    7. Steve Bell says:

      And yet, in the polls that really count, ie. elections, the SNP keep winning with a clear commitment to give the people of Scotland a choice. Is it possible people don’t understand that that means having a referendum ?

    8. Ian Dolan says:

      The Brexteers now have more than enough rope to hang themselves. Let’s hope they use it sooner rather than later.Boris & the ” I hate the SNP ” Labourites are still very good recruitment sergeants for the Independence cause.

      Let’s wait and see what the next brace of polls will tell us. Maybe we’ll be surprised. Here’s hoping.

    9. robertknight says:

      Rev Stu says…

      “The fact that public opinion is still set against a referendum for years to come gives the UK government an easy excuse to reject one. After all, if the voters REALLY wanted independence why wouldn’t they want a vote on it?”

      An excellent case for saying stuff IndyRef2, with its dodgy money bankrolling “No” and the Yoon MSM in full tally-ho “SNPBad/Scotland You’re Sh1te” mode.

      Because despite being dragged out the EU against the will of 62% who voted Remain, despite being ignored at every turn by a Tory Govt. run by a PM with a popularity rating that’d make Thatcher more popular than Father Christmas at your door on December 25th, our ‘just cause’ sits at only 51% – having a margin of error of +/- 2%.

      WE SHOULD BE AT 61% FFS!!!

      Despite everything we’ve only moved +6% since 2014, (+/- 2%), and the electorate are clearly fed up of referenda. We’ll be punished if we force them to another, or worse – we have a referendum about a referendum. Genius whoever thought that up!

      You want to know where repeated referenda get you? Look to Quebec!

      SNP 2021 Manifesto. SNP majority at Holyrood plus >50% of votes cast = Indy.

    10. Fergus says:

      Are the “support a referendum” results distorted by the fact a Unionist would state “Should not” to ALL options, whereas a Yes voter may just have stated “Should” for their SINGLE preferred option?

      Could someone explain how the “do you think there should or should not be a referendum on Scottish independence… [four date options]?” question could have been structured to cope with this?

    11. Liz g says:

      Probably the only thing that will shift the polls is a Yes Campaign.
      We know that’s what shifted the numbers before,and were a lot better organised this time round.
      I suspect that direct polling would have said most did not want an EU referendum right away but people still took part.
      I wonder if there was a similar polling question before the 2014 poll?

      The SNP would be making a huge mistake not to take this opportunity… The YES Campaigners are good to go, they need to trust us and not the polls,we’ve got this!
      And I still think that they will… Because they are indeed full of self interest they are not going to miss the opportunity of their place in history.
      If they thought they could survive stringing us along… Then sure they would they are first and foremost a political party.
      But they will not end themselves and even another close no vote won’t destroy them… So I think they’ll roll the dice!
      Even if it is for next year.
      Jist sayin….

    12. mike cassidy says:

      Only one poll.

      Agreed, but.

      I suspect these are the sorts of numbers the SNP leadership are finding in their private polling.

      Think about it.

      What the feck do you do politically when you find even some of the people who would vote ‘yes’ don’t want an indyref2 any time soon.

      As I suggested on here after the GE.

      The next indyref2 will only come along – if at all – when/if the SNP hold the balance of power at Westminster.

      Ironically, this does give time for the SNP to really get up Westminster’s nose.

      Let’s irritate the political feck out of them.

      Starting with establishing drug rooms and calling their bluff – or otherwise.

      Problem is the current SNP leadership appear too risk-averse.

      Time to go for a run.

      Cos at 67, I suspect I’m going to have to delay my clogpopping if I’m ever going to see progress on this issue.

    13. Mist001 says:

      What Scotland needs is to stop all this faffing about with elections, mandates and all that guff.

      What it needs is a leader who will say ‘Right. This is what we’re going to fucking do.’

      It needs someone to make a solid decision and make Scotlands mind up for it because it’s obvious from the polls that the Rev keeps posting that Scotland can’t, and will probably never, make its mind up.

      So, it needs someone to do it for them.

      And here’s me sitting here counting down the hours, *hoping* for that to happen tomorrow but the inner me knows damned well that I’m in for the usual disappointment and let down from Sturgeon.

    14. One_Scot says:

      Man, how good am I, I knew the Fud would be in quick. #MajorSaddo

    15. sassenach says:

      I think we are going to have to accept the fact that it appears not enough Scots are at all interested in being their own ‘masters’.

      I can’t think of any other country, given the chances we’ve had who would shun the chance to govern themselves. I await tomorrow’s statement with a mixture of dread/boredom – unless Nicola proves us all to be wrong.

      I don’t think we can necessarily put all the blame on Nicola – Scots seem to have always doubted their own abilities (Ok, the great English Rule at play!) and so how can she do much if she knows there aren’t enough folk behind her?

      Even on here, supposedly the strongest Indy community, we are infested with Britnats, making it seem even we don’t want Indy.

      I see little hope, unless a giant ‘rabbit’ is pulled out of Nicola’s bag tomorrow.

    16. Vivian O'Blivion says:

      In 2016, Scotland voted to Remain by a 24% margin, England to Leave by a 7% margin. The vectors are opposing so a compound differential in “sentiment” of 31%.
      The YouGov poll from yesterday (is leaving the EU a good or bad thing? yes / no) puts the differential in sentiment between Scotland and England at around 42% (assuming Wales is equally Eurosceptic as England, which we know not to the case).
      As “will not vote”, ” refused to say” is included, the numbers will not necessarily reflect the degree of determination of the respondents to vote. The sentiment against leaving the EU is strong and public opinion is riled. In an actual referendum, we may already be at the 55% Yes point.
      As an aside, I was never sent on the 2020 date and regard 2021 as optimistic. First half of the decade sounds about right.

    17. robertknight says:

      The most calamitous period in Scottish political history since 1707 and we’re only hitting 51% !

      Leave the bubbly in the fridge why don’t you…

    18. crazycat says:

      @ HYUFD

      Including Don’t Knows only 43% back Yes, less than the 45% who voted Yes in 2014

      By definition, those who voted in 2014 did not include “don’t knows”, so you are not comparing like with like.

      The 45% were 38% of the electorate; 43 is considerably more than 38.

    19. solarflare says:

      It is a nice handy boost for NS tomorrow, though.

      Did they think/know an indy poll result was coming, hence the postponement to Friday, or is that just a nice bonus?

    20. sassenach says:

      robertknight says:”The most calamitous period in Scottish political history since 1707 and we’re only hitting 51% !”

      But, mainly due to our very anti-Scot press corps, most of us are being fed rubbish, in order that people don’t appreciate we are in the “calamitous” period you suggest.

      Only when enough people “wake up” will things happen – and that doesn’t feel like it’s imminent.

    21. Stoker says:

      It’s as simple as this, imo, it’s a poll and it all depends where and who was asked. Add to that there’s a very strong “cowardice” streak running through Scotland, especially in areas such as the Borders.

      By “cowardice” i mean people who know it’s the correct way to go but never will vote for it and in their (Grand Britannia) heart-of-hearts they never want to say they are Noers for fear of persecution, ridicule & being singled out etc etc.

      There are 3 main categories within the Scottish electorate, outwith Yessers: (1):Loyalist Unionist variety who will *never* say Yes, (2): Those i refer to above, mainly English folk but not solely, who may also masquerade as being in group three with absolutely no intention of ever saying Yes. This will also apply to quite a number fitting into number one group. (3): I was a No but i could be persuaded (some call them “soft Noes).

      It is this deception that’s holding Scotland back and unless the SNP get a good bit more radical & forthright that situation is *never* going to change and groups 2 & 3 will happily plod along under their guises. There’s nothing calling them out.

      A radical approach is needed for quicker and proper change. The middle ground is called Devowhatever and that includes 50-shades of shite varieties. But that’s what we have now and it doesn’t work. Scotland still gets abused.

      BTW, to any fuckwit wanting to try white knighting the anti-English line just GIT YIRSEL TAE FUCK. There is nothing anti-English about my perfectly valid point, i know, i live amongst them, have countless English relatives, friends and associates. So please don’t try it. If you do don’t expect to be replied to in a civil manner. 🙂

    22. Doug says:

      The public are waiting for a strong lead, for purpose. Give them that and they will follow – now, and not in five years time. That lead must come from the Scottish government tomorrow.

    23. Martin says:

      Wanting an independence referendum is frankly irrelevant (unless you tug forelocks at BoJo).

      If one is announced/campaigned for, people will need to make their minds up. It’s very hard to get an accurate idea of peoples’ views on something they don’t see as a realistic prospect anytime soon.

    24. Alasdair Angus Macdonald says:

      It is possible that because of the contemptuously dismissive attitude of the UK Government and of a fair number of Labour Leader and Deputy Leadership candidates, as well as the incoherent stance of the LibDems, many Scots might be saying that we no longer need an referendum.

    25. Vestas says:

      51% with ZERO serious campaigning for indyref2 from the SNP for years is a pretty decent result.

      Imagine what might happen if the SNP actually TRIED to campaign on an independence platform rather than an anti-brexit one (or whatever kicks the can down the line)….

      Not going to hold my breath for an epiphany tomorrow, it’ll be the same meaningless bullshit long-term incumbent politicians always spout.

    26. Colin Alexander says:

      I want independence. I don’t want another UK indyref, cos the indyref policy is garbage.

      Months and months of Project Fear and worthless predictions about the future from both sides. Instead of debate about sovereignty and empowerment and democracy , we get Nostradamus v Mystic Meg mince.

      It’s no way to decide a nation’s future, as Indyref1 demonstrated.

    27. robertknight says:

      Sassenach at 3:05

      due to our very anti-Scot press corps, most of us are being fed rubbish”

      It was ever thus and will not change anytime soon. So something else MUST change or we’ll be no closer to the 61% we should be at for the foreseeable.

      We’re in danger of running into the same tar pit over IndyRef2 as we did in 2014 with the idea of sharing Sterling.

      Salmond said we’d share it, Darling and Carney said no. (I know Carney said no such thing but Joe Public bought the lie spun by the MSM that he did).

      Johnson says no IndyRef2, Sturgeon says yes. It comes down to who the public believes is credible and THAT is determined by what they see in the news and read in the papers.

      It is folly to have a strategy that relies on the credibility of one individual, for if some adverse press or scandalous rumour hits the streets, the credibility of the individual and the whole campaign that is built upon it collapses.

      Forget IndyRef2. 2021 Holyrood Election.

      We don’t need the extra £ for a stand-alone Yes campaign, (Mind the % donated by the Weirs versus the likes of JKK Rowling-in-it on the other side) and we’re not asking the electorate to turn out for any additional plebescite.

      Single issue, single campaign, let them come to us.

    28. Republicofscotland says:

      51 to 49 in favour of an independent Scotland, yes its not a huge margin, but its a move in the right direction, a positive move, and we shoukd see it as that.

      Westminster would’ve been hoping for a negative pro yes figure. As for the fickle Scots public on when to hold an indyref.

      Build it and they will come, is a line from a movie, hold it and they will vote, hopefully yes.

    29. Breeks says:

      Whether they want YES, or whether they want no, ALL Scots enter this world with a sovereign birthright written into our Constitution.

      For the love of all things holy, just protect the single principle of that sovereign birthright, and irrespective and whether there is, or isn’t, an ephemeral majority for or against Independence, Scotland cannot be subjugated into accepting the will of another country.

      Protect our Constitutional Sovereignty, keep it sacred, and England’s headlong stumble into Brexit will render the Union untenable and that Union will fall apart. No referendum required, just a fucking backbone.

      What’s so fucking complicated about that? DO NOT WHIMPER AWAY OUR SOVEREIGNTY. STAND FIRM, HOLD THE CONSTITUTIONAL LINE , DO NOT FLINCH AND THE UNION FAILS.

      Scotland will not be Brexited against it’s will.

      Scotland will not be subjugated against it’s will.

      The Constitution of Holyrood, the Scotland Act and Sewel Convention is merely a framework for Devolution agreed with London. IT IS NOT the Sovereign Constitution of Scotland.

      If you have never understood anything in your life, please Scotland, understand what this actually means.

    30. One_Scot says:

      I’m gonna make a call the next YouGov poll for Scottish Independence will be “surprisingly” less than 50% for Yes, with the narrative Brexit has happened, the SNP and Independence is now a busted flush.

    31. Achnababan says:

      Folks its the swing towards Independence that counts! (14%)!! Great news!!!

    32. Tatu3 says:

      Were we all put off when the polls showed 20+% at the start of indyref1? No. Did we all think “och no point in having this indyref as no one wants it”, did we? No. So why is everyone giving up now and being so bloody negative? 51% is a great start. An AWFUL lot of people do not get involved until the firing gun has been fired. It hasn’t been fired yet! Be more positive for goodness sake.

    33. CameronB Brodie says:

      Politics really does my head in, but not as much as the Scottish electorate. I’m aware that is harsh and unfair. What can I expect, with the BBC in Scotland leading the coordinated assault on the electorate’s capacity for rational decision making?

      Why legitimacy and political identity are connected to each other, especially in the case of the European Union
      https://ecpr.eu/Filestore/PaperProposal/32f74f59-c7ab-4cd3-93c1-46b8f33e3243.pdf

    34. sassenach says:

      Achnababan

      Ah, the old ‘swingometer’ – makes me feel a bit better!

    35. Garry Henderson says:

      So dissolve the union, no referendum (it’s not what people want) but give us Indy (it is what the people want) thems what the polls say…

    36. bobajock says:

      With no campaign, with constant media turdlike analysis, with a neverendum of bland non-politics.

      Just imagine anyone arguing – ‘Vote No to stay out of the EU’.

      Or ‘Devo Max Max Ultra – in a Vow’.

      Or ‘The equaliest of equal partnerships.

      Or ‘A Jones commission to decide new superpowers’

    37. Gary45% says:

      We could do with the “Hurly Burly Bag” at this moment in time.

    38. Pete Barton says:

      Just waiting for the state broadcaster posting Yougov’s poll.

    39. manandboy says:

      * A poll asking the identical question conducted at Ibrox and Parkhead before a big match will produce very different results.

      * With the media so tightly controlled by Unionists, it is very hard to believe that the polling companies are strictly neutral. No apologies, but I don’t trust them one little bit.

      * Support for the SNP/Independence in major elections simply doesn’t square with both the Indy14 result or the polls.
      They should ‘fit’ together, but they don’t. Something is missing.

      *I doubt that very many people now think think that Indy14 was untouched by the Westminster Government. The EU referendum showed what could be done to skew a result.

      * Sixty two English Colonies have regained their independence. Why is Scotland the odd man out. What makes Scotland so different from the sixty two to make us cling to a brutal and greedy colonial master.

      * The odds are in favour of a rigged game. We just can’t prove it.

    40. Colin Alexander says:

      What this poll confirms is there’s nae chance of the British Empire agreeing to SNP demands for a s30 and cooperation on an indyref and the “all means possible to defend the Empire” onstructions are being issued in Whitehall.

      Remember what happened previously when YES showed a lead:

      All agreements about a fairly run referendum were blatantly violated:

      The Purdah convention was breached.

      Apparently Cameron persuaded Empress Elizabeth to violate the supposed neutrality of the monarch.

      And we got the lies of The Vow with the BBC on overdrive to promote GB Broon.

      ————————————
      And we have the SNP wanting a re-run, insisting indyref1 was the gold standard of democracy. Insisting, if you keep asking politely, the British Empire will play by the rules of decency and fairness.

      Nuts!

    41. CameronB Brodie says:

      I mean, it’s not as if the BBC is independent of government influence. And they are the most trusted media source, though probably not in Scotland.

      The end of social democracy and the rise of neoliberalism at the BBC

      Abstract
      Drawing on interviews and archival material, this thesis examines how the crisis of the 1970s and the rising power of business under the neoliberal settlement that followed impacted on the BBC’s organisational structure, policies and journalistic practices. Part I focuses on the breakdown of social democracy.

      Orientated towards and legitimised by the social order that seemed under strain, the politically appointed BBC leadership took a conscious conservative turn and, under pressure from the government, sought to curtail the influence of union militancy and sixties radicalism and to stem its own ‘fiscal crisis’ through wage repression.

      Meanwhile, despite facing criticism over its economic reporting, which routinely blamed trades unions for the perceived economic decline and crisis, the BBC leadership refused to even seriously question long standing editorial conventions. This, it is argued, left an explanatory vacuum that the New Right were able to skilfully exploit.

      Part II describes the process of change that the BBC then underwent in the wake of Thatcherism. It argues that the highly unpopular organisational reforms introduced under the leadership of John Birt represented an institutionalisation of the new neoliberal order at the BBC. It describes how business journalism came to displace social democratic patterns of reporting as a result of both top down initiatives and a range of external factors including privatisation and financialisation, the changing political economy of the private media and the power of advertising and public relations.

      By analysing archival and interview material in the light of scholarly work on neoliberalism, broadcasting and power, the thesis offers an empirically rich account of the subtle ways in which journalistic norms are shaped by wider social forces and a more satisfactory account of the BBC and its role in British society than existing studies.

      https://researchportal.bath.ac.uk/files/187941719/Mills_The_end_of_social_democracy_and_the_rise_of_neoliberalism_at_the_BBC_Copy.pdf

    42. Harry mcaye says:

      Strange to be disappointed in a poll that shows Yes up 7% and No down 7%, but, yes, rather baffling folks views on when it should happen.

      I’ll say this yet again, I’ve been signed up to YouGov since 2014 and I never get asked about independence. I don’t think this year is possible so I would have voted for “if the SNP get a majority of seats”. But that’s not an independence supporting majority, it relies on the SNP once again breaking the system, and with disillusionment setting in, that looks like a pipe dream.

    43. Pete says:

      Independence for Scotland, unlike the UK, is now a busted flush,
      A few years down the line, all the dire warnings of misery and disaster put out by the SNP will have proved to be wrong and all desire for independence will have drifted away.
      Time to start enjoying life folks, so have a party with your fellow Scots Brexiteers tomorrow and celebrate independence from the hopeless EU.
      Cheer up!!

    44. CameronB Brodie says:

      Pete
      Are you on the wind-up or do you hold law and order in such low regard?

    45. jfngw says:

      Unless you ask why they don’t want a referendum then these numbers do not tell the full story. I don’t want a referendum I just want independence, if there is a majority in parliament of independence supporting Scottish MP’s/MSP’s then what is good enough for Westminster is good enough for me. The method used to enter the union is suitable to end it.

      If you asked people in Nov if they wanted an election I suspect most would say no, ordinary people don’t much like politics or politicians.

    46. Abulhaq says:

      The BritState electorate, including Scots, simply doesn’t grasp the meaning of the word POWER.
      The Tory establishment does not require a definition.
      The sleepy Scottish electorate may need a shock. This torpor, stasis or craven cowardice, call it what you will, cannot go on.
      Politicians have really screwed this up. It ought be taken out of their hands.
      This kind of democratic deficit belongs on the southern shores of the Mediterranean, plenty of apathy there too.
      Apathy, the politicians friend and democracy’s cruellest enemy.
      Alas, the bitter irony of this poll.

    47. CameronB Brodie says:

      Pete
      Do you want to live in a neo-liberal prison all your life? Does contemporary (white) British nationalism suite your personality type, or are you working from a script?

      MIND, SOCIETY, AND BEHAVIOR
      https://www.worldbank.org/content/dam/Worldbank/Publications/WDR/WDR%202015/WDR-2015-Full-Report.pdf

    48. callmedave says:

      Partner doing a new panel base poll right now!
      She says strange new (to her) questions.

      Could be ‘Scot goes pop’ has his out and is collecting data. 🙂

      PS:
      Thanks for your good wishes Cynical.

      Up and about since lunchtime clothes on and giving that film ‘El Camino’ a try later to see how the breaking bad series ended up.

    49. Craig Murray says:

      Leadership shifts opinion. You change the dynamic by doing something. If the SNP continues to sit on its collective arse until a poll magically says people want a referendum, it will never happen.

      Most people want independence. Declare it, announce a confirmatory referendum being held by an independent Scotland, get campaigning and watch the support leap up. Dynamism is needed.

    50. Gary45% says:

      Pete@4.39
      And in a few years time, you will still be slaverin pish.
      Enjoy your Brexit Engerland, where your new national anthem will be “I’m So Lonely”.
      Try and not choke on your chlorinated Chicken, because your chum Nige, will have you signed up to the American red neck health care system, and with no Scottish money funding Engerland?? oh dearie me.

    51. Doug says:

      @Craig Murray 4:51pm

      Exactly right. Tomorrow the FM and the Scottish government must take radical action.

    52. SilverDarling says:

      Scotland wants independence but doesn’t want a referendum.

      Seems logical. We know what we want and don’t want to have to endure another Better Together campaign of lies and nonsense to get it.

    53. Boudicca says:

      St Augustine, (who was a bit of a lad), ‘lord, make me good, but not yet’.
      Scotland: make us independent, but not yet.

      I think people are just so fed up with politics, politicians and Brexit they feel they can’t take any more for the moment, just tired and depressed with it all.

    54. velofello says:

      The authority to determine Scotland’s political future is in our hands. 80% of our MPs are SNP and campaigned on an independence ticket, and to remain in the EU. The SNP must demand a meeting with the UK government to begin independence negotiations and the means to remain in the EU. And if, as I would expect Johnson refuses, then walk out of Westminster, sit as our government at Holyrood, and look to the international community for mediation.

      Forget this – but only 45% voted in the election for the SNP – stuff taken up by the Tories. And if you didn’t vote, sorry your views cannot be interpreted.

      From Nicola Sturgeon tomorrow I want just one simple statement – “I have requested the UK government begin negotiations promptly with us on independence and EU membership.”.

    55. Republicofscotland says:

      “Folks its the swing towards Independence that counts! (14%)!! Great news!!!”

      Yes it’s great news, we’re ahead, and probably other pollsters will show that we’re even further ahead, if not 51% is still good.

      No matter who I speak to now, I’ll be sure to tell them that.

    56. Republicofscotland says:

      Scot Goes POP, agrees its a good result, he also says what we all, already know that YouGov are a no friendly pollster.

      So I’ll assume that the figure is higher than 51% around the country.

      http://scotgoespop.blogspot.com

    57. robertknight says:

      Harry @ 4:31…

      it relies on the SNP once again breaking the system, and with disillusionment setting in, that looks like a pipe dream.”

      Don’t mistake disillusionment for ambition!

      We who don’t feel the SNP is making all the capital that it might from the Brexit fiasco are frustrated – NOT disillusioned.

      How many of us have watched a Scottish squad, be it at rugby or football, start playing out of their skins against a supposedly superior opposition only to throw the game through a series of basic tactical errors. A careless knock-on within a set-piece scrum 5 yards from the try line or an offside when it was clearly the chance of 1 vs keeper and no man-on.

      You’ll have felt that frustration, no?

      Well, it is that and NOT disillusionment which drives me and others like me.

      To paraphrase the Corries’ ‘Dawning of the Day’, the SNP are very close to resting on their own perceived laurels and having them turn into thorns.

      I’ll give the SNP credit where/when it’s due, but if by judging their actions harshly it prevents them from deluding themselves into thinking that they’re doing a grand job, I’ll not spare the rod.

      To keep the Dominie theme going, my Report Card for them…

      | ‘Constitutional Issues’ | C+ | Could do better! |

    58. JMD says:

      RepublicofScotland 5.18

      Then why did he bother using them?

      That lot have had it at 50/50 for YEARS now, does it ever occur to anyone that they might not be being entirely objective and impartial in the way that they conduct these polls?

      I’m not saying that it must be higher because I don’t know, and I don’t know because the major polling companies in uk are owned and operated by people with strong connections to the WM regime.

      Need I say more?

    59. HYUFD says:

      Velofello If Sturgeon declares UDI with just 45% of the vote and most Scots opposed to indyref2 for at least 5 years, Boris will just impose direct rule and leave her up creek without a paddle

    60. R4 says:

      Does anyone know what time Nicola’s speech will be tomorrow. I can sense something big is going to be announced.

    61. jfngw says:

      Oh look HYUFD is threatening to invade us…again. Go on I think you would see support increase to 70% if you try.

    62. Old Pete says:

      Nicola should resign tomorrow forcing a Scottish election. The SNP and Greens should fight it on Independence front and centre. When they win again they should accept the decision of the Scottish electorate and inform BoJo that the union is dissolved and start negotiations forthwith so we can leave before the end of 2020.
      Risky course of action, but it’s well worth it. No referendum and no arguments. The Scottish people are sovereign after all.

    63. kapelmeister says:

      The poll’s lack of support for indref2 is most likely just voter mood right after a winter GE which came on top of 2019’s prolonged brexit fight.

      Far more important is the 14% swing to Yes.

      O/T
      Meghan Gallagher, Tory group leader in North Lanarkshire, has endorsed Carlaw in the leadership contest. She described her favourite as “battle tested”.

      Two failed businesses, 6 defeats out of 7 in parliamentary constituency elections, and third place in the 2011 leadership election behind Davidson and Fraser. Battle tested? Shop soiled more like.

    64. Republicofscotland says:

      “I’m not saying that it must be higher because I don’t know, and I don’t know because the major polling companies in uk are owned and operated by people with strong connections to the WM regime.”

      “Need I say more?”

      JMD.

      I think you’ve answered your own question there. In my opinion plenty of folk probably think its higher, as do I.

    65. ahundredthidiot says:

      We’ll win.

      Last time around everyone, myself included, was pretty much keeping their own counsel on their vote. This time around there will be no sense of embarrassment or feeling that we are somehow betraying our other half. I remember a wee old wummin in the dentist telling me, with a look of regret and pathetic embarrassment, that ‘we just couldnae dae it on oor ain’ and I didn’t have the heart to tell her otherwise. Some people just can’t see the future.

      The Union’s as dead as a fucking dodo and there ain’t no shame in saying so, in public, in work, in circles of friends. Politely of course, without raised voices.

      Scotland – out of sheer self-preservation – must now go its own way.

    66. twathater says:

      I agree with posters who say whoa we are up at 51% that is positive , okay we should maybe be higher but come on EVERY fucking DAY AND NIGHT we are assailed with SCOTLAND IS SHITE from EVERY broadcaster and churnalist , they collectively are our WORST ENEMY.and that is what the ordinary punter hears, the difficulty is how do we defeat them , there is only one way NAME a date as early as possible and get the SNP steel toecaps looked out , only allow certain MP’S and MSP’S to be interviewed and every time a SNP rep is interviewed deliberately and publicly call out the lies for what they are LIES
      The SNP have been in power for the last 12 years so the majority of voters have ELECTED them and KNOW that they are doing better than ANY of the other parties would do , they trust their governance , so FORCE the electorate to make a CHOICE , BETTER GOVERNANCE IN AN INDEPENDENT SCOTLAND WITHIN THE EU , OR a Better together Shite pension as a 75 year old , pay £8 per item for your prescription , pay your bedroom tax , pay £9,000 per annum for your children’s uni fees , lose your SNHS to American vulture capitalists , and enjoy your chlorine washed chicken whilst bozo and his ilk fine dine on free range produce because they can afford it

      RAMP up the truth , Ramp up the fear factor , show them the consequences VIVIDLY of NOT being independent , play on the LIES AND CORRUPTION of bozo and his cohorts

      We are at a turning point we HAVE to go for it now and we have to use EVERY MEANS to awaken complacent voters to accept that failure means REVENGE OF THE TORIES ON SCOTLAND

    67. HYUFD says:

      Jfngw The evidence from Catalonia suggests different, it would just divide on Unionist and Nationalist lines

    68. jfngw says:

      Neil Findlay is advising us, after waiting to see if Brexit happens he now wants to wait till we know the Brexit details. No doubt after that we will need to wait until we know what the consequences of no deal will be. British Nationalists will always have just one more delaying tactic in their armoury no matter what happens.

    69. dakk says:

      Some of the people who say they don’t want a referendum soon, will be Yes people who can’t bear the thought of another failed indyref. I kind of get that.

      Not everyone can take the emotional turmoil of campaign/ failure equally, so they are reluctant to initiate the upheaval.

      So the figure for less people wanting indyref than would vote Yes maybe should not be that surprising.

      As for 51% Yes.Maybe some people need an actual campaign to focus their minds.

    70. Breeks says:

      What is required tomorrow is a show of strength.

      With Scotland’s Constitutional Sovereignty and Brexit Remain Mandate, a meaningful and indeed game changing show of strength shouldn’t be difficult to deliver, but without strong and clever leadership, not to mention a profound change of strategy, we’ll still be drowning our sorrows this time tomorrow.

    71. Stoker says:

      @ jfngw on 30 January, 2020 at 6:07 pm:

      100% Correct but Neil Findlay is an irrelevant failure trying to get noticed. It is only because the side he supports controls all the media that he gets his puss on TV and his thoughts quoted. In any other country not one single person, other than his family, would know who Neil Findlay is because he’d be a nobody sitting on the dole. A failed teacher, a failed brickies labourer and a failed politician. The word failure was created for him. 😉

    72. jfngw says:

      @HYUFD

      There is only around 30% pure British Nationalists in Scotland (they pretty much support Tory). You are making the assumption that all Labour supports are British Nationalists. Using your criteria then the Tories should have polled over 50% in the GE as they were the Brexit party. When in fact it was the Remain (I’m including Labour but to be honest I still don’t know what their position was but it was certainly against the Tory deal) that polled over 50%.

      Drawing referendum outcomes from GE results is a foolish use of statistics.

    73. manandboy says:

      Wings comments has become a Unionist troll meeting place.

      I wouldn’t dream of spending time at any of the Unionist parties’ meeting places.

      If I type ‘Hail Caesar!’ on here, I’m automatically in moderation. But if I want to continually undermine the case for Independence then I am completely free to do so, without any sanction.

      The SNP will be inviting Jackson Carlaw to address their executive meetings next, just to uphold the right to ‘free speech’.

    74. velofello says:

      @ HYUFD; Did I mention UDI? I don’t think so.

      When two parties, be they individuals or nations, have diverging ambitions, the mature response is to recognise the problem, and seek a solution –

      Johnson, in the Westminster parliament, shouting across to the SNP that EU negotiations “do not concern them” is neither a mature nor constructive response to the obvious divergence between Scotland and England.

      Signing off the Withdrawal Bill despite the expressed opposition of the governments of Wales, Northern Ireland, and Scotland is further damage to the UK construct. And that the Queen signed the Bill effectively consigns her UK royalty prospects to dust.

      Johnson’s bluster and abusive behaviour merely delays the solution. I doubt that he will be England’s negotiator.

    75. jfngw says:

      @HYUFD

      How can it be UDI if we are in a voluntary union, it is just ceasing a union is it not. Or do you see us as England’s prisoners, only allowed to make decisions at the acquiescence of the imperial master.

    76. iain mhor says:

      Well that would put my suggestion for a referendum asking if an Indyref2 should be held to bed, haha.
      Shame really, it had a modicum of merit I thought. Certainly sidesteps the ‘constitutionally reserved’ issue.

      Well, taking it at face value anyway, that leaves us with:
      We don’t want a referendum, but if given one anyway, it would be Yes. No-one was asked if they wanted a Brexit referendum I suppose, so there is that precedent.

      Or alternatively, the scenario is that a referendum isn’t wanted, but another route would be acceptable. It tends to suggest that would be an election route which is preferred -the ‘Standing on an Indy ticket and winning option.

      It would be nice to see a poll asking if that would be democratically acceptable to Scots… perhaps there is/was one – ‘If a party stood on an Indy Ticket, how would you vote/ would it be acceptable’, or suchlike.

      Friday won’t bring anything for sure, except much wailing and gnashing of teeth.

    77. CameronB Brodie says:

      kapelmeister
      And like the British constitution, not fit for purpose.

      ——–

      OK, time for a bit of political behavioral science? Full text.

      Political Attitudes: The Role of Information as a
      Determinant of Direction, Structure and Stability

      ABSTRACT
      This thesis explores the relationship between political awareness and engagement and the content and structure of Political Belief Systems. Specifically, the role of information in determining the inter-relatedness, temporal stability and preference direction of political attitudes is evaluated using data from the British General Election Study, the British Household Panel Study and the SCPR Deliberative Poll on Political Issues.

      The first two chapters provide a review of theorising and research on the political sophistication of the general public, setting this debate within the context of theoretical discussions of democracy. It is argued that perspectives which seek to discount the need for an equitably informed public are both theoretically unsound and empirically unsubstantiated….

      https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/46518411.pdf

    78. Mist001 says:

      @ jfngw:

      Exactly. Nicola Sturgeon even told Boris Johnson this fact when she sent her most recent letter requesting a Section 30 order. She states in the letter “Scotland is not a region questioning its place in a larger unitary state; we are a country in a voluntary union of nations.”

      So if you enter into a union voluntarily, then you must be able to exit the union voluntarily also.

      Unless there’s some hidden caveat that nobody’s telling us about and we’re completely unaware of.

    79. HYUFD says:

      jfngw As 54% of Scots voted for Unionist parties last month and even on today’s YouGov including Don’t Knows only 43% of Scots back independence, Boris would rightly say Sturgeon had no mandate for UDI and he was respecting the will of the Scottish Unionist majority by imposing direct rule until Sturgeon to get back to domestic issues only for the next 5 years. As today’s YouGov confirms Scots have no interest in indyref2 or pushing independence for the foreseeable future

    80. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      I don’t think this result is in any way surprising. It’s simply another measure of how a large segment of the population isn’t (yet) engaged, and don’t paticularly want to be either, because – unlike us – thinking about fundamental constitutional issues isn’t high on their agenda, and they would very much rather not, thank-you-very-much. They have more pressing matters, both essential and utterly trivial, to deal with. And so long as there is no prospect of anywhere to go and anything to do about it, who is to say that they are wrong?

      The likes of Robin McAlpine and the SNP “60%”ers need to face up to the inescapable hard fact which all such polls demonstrate that their slow-mo trickle policy of “engagement” isn’t working. Indeed is doomed to fail, for exactly the above reason.

      Everything in its own time. It’s up to the political movers and shakers – and Lord knows we need them more than ever right now – to bring about the necessary conditions for engagement. Which means a campaign from now on, based on some kind of pending plebiscite. “Political Dulcolax” needed tomorrow indeed, as Stu says. I still believe it will be forthcoming.

    81. HYUFD says:

      velofello Wales voted Leave, the Withdrawal Agreement respects the GFA and it enables a trade deal for Scotland as well as the UK while respecting the ‘once in a generation’ 2014 referendum vote by Scots to stay in the UK. I note you had no complaints when the Queen signed the Benn Act delaying Brexit

    82. Pete Barton says:

      Oh dear.
      More FUD.

    83. Dr Jim says:

      When you’ve been stolen from, suppressed and ruled for 300 years by politicians you didn’t vote for and who you don’t trust not to lie to you again and again because you’ve learned that it’s all about what’s in the best interests of England first last and always, then on top of that you’ve just seen those same English make the biggest mistake of their lives by voting for isolation and having the power to drag Scotland along with it as usual because we don’t get a say

      Then it’s not terribly surprising that folk are afraid to make the decision to do something even though they know it’s right without worrying about the consequences they might bring about because of that decision

      Nicola Sturgeon isnae everybody’s Mammie who’s there to be begged tae dae sumthin for her kids then blamed by her kids if she disnae dae sumthin

      It’s Scotland that needs to grow up and go on our own can, and that’s why people are waiting for their Mammie tae dae it fur them just like feart kids

      If Scotland doesn’t do this soon the time will come when yer Da will get fed up and throw us out, meaning England will have done what they always do and strip us out again till there’s nothing left then like Northern Ireland, dump us, but we won’t have a soft landing like the Republic of Ireland to fall back on

      Scotland’s on it’s todd, stop blaming Mammie Nikki for no wipin yer ain arses and be a wee bit greatful she hasnae got fed up and buggered off somewhere else to have a life of her own instead of hangin around trying help us make decisions we should be making ourselves

      Wur Mammie cannae go to the polling booth and vote for us,
      she’s written aw the letters, hud aw the arguments, bought us a new suit and shoes, noo it’s oor turn tae dae the job

    84. Elmac says:

      The evil hour approaches when pro indy people must decide whether the SNP will take them to the promised land or not. As far as my family are concerned the SNP have until tomorrow night to act decisively for Scotland or the gravy train stops. No more subs and, as soon as a viable pro independence alternative emerges, our votes will then accompany the subs out the door.

      I have been a staunch supporter of the SNP for years but I fear complacency and personal comfort may have displaced the fervour for independence. The proof of the pudding will be tomorrow and I suspect there will be a significant drop in support for the SNP if there is no radical move towards independence in the next 24 hours. Over to you Nicola – either put up or shut up. Our patience is at an end.

    85. Dan says:

      HYUFD says: at 6:56 pm

      As 54% of Scots voted for Unionist parties last month…

      Of just fuck off with yer shite. Week after week you’ve been told on here that Westminster gerrymanders the voting franchise to exclude 16 & 17 year olds and EU Nationals from voting in a GE.
      Yet you persist and turn up on here and spout the same shit from your broken and scratched record.
      A side – Once in a Generation
      B side – 54% of Scots voted for Unionist parties.

      Change the fuckin tune ya roaster!

    86. jfngw says:

      @HYUFD

      Now you are just regurgitating shite, it is not UDI, Scotland is a country not a region of England. Sturgeon has a stronger mandate than Boris Johnson in both percentage of votes and percentage of seats. The Tories have no mandate to govern Scotland and have not received one since 1955 (65 years).

    87. Pete Barton says:

      Och Dan, FUD is chust doing hiss job.

    88. solarflare says:

      “HYUFD says:
      30 January, 2020 at 6:56 pm
      jfngw As 54% of Scots voted for Unionist parties last month”

      The Conservative vote share at GE2019 was 43.6%, so presumably you interpret that result as an anti-Tory vote of 56.4%.

    89. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      The Kingdom of Scotland and the Kingdom of England are in a VOLUNTARY union, referred to as the “United Kingdom”. An internationally recognised treaty, “The Treaty Of Union” is what holds it together.

      For that union to be dissolved, a majority of sovereign Scots, or a majority of English SUBJECTS, have to indicate, demonstrably, that dissolution of the treaty is what they want.

      In the case of Scotland, that could be by means of a referendum – “Should Scotland be an independent country?” – or by a plebiscite election to Holyrood, where a party, or parties, stand on the single manifesto – “If we achieve a majority of seats and votes (both constituency and region) in this election, then we will immediately dissolve the 1707 Treaty of Union”.

      No “Unilateral Declaration of Independence” would be required, as Scotland would not be seceding from England.

      English commentators appear to believe the propaganda that has been put out by the ‘Westminster-supporting media’ over the decades.

      Up here, we have had our eyes opened to the real truth, mainly through SOCIAL media, rather than the mainstream media, both press and broadcast, which has lost the trust of Scots.

      Robert Knight paraphrased this song but the lyrics still stand.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoZZVkDVZ0c

    90. Dan says:

      Grabs record player, turns up volume to eleven and plays a record dedicated to HYUFD

      A side – 5 year fixed Parliament Act (Tory time distortion remix)
      B side – Die in a ditch
      B side bonus track – What is process for removing our EU citizenship? Voting Yes

    91. Pete Barton says:

      Conservative??
      Surely schum mistake?

    92. David R says:

      Can’t see the SNP doing anything controversial tomorrow. Be bit about Brexit, taken out of EU against will and that the UK Gov should allow another indy ref. Just enough to keep the troops in line. Promote the new, new yes, sorry pro indy campaign and get £5 a month until independent. Should be a nice earner for someone.

      As we get closer to next years election the SNP will try to convince pro indy supporters that they must give the SNP votes to be sure of getting the SNP back into power. Sorry get an indy ref.

      I’d imagine the Tory party will want to talk about anything else and can only assume that the gender debate is being avoided for max impact. Especially the pro trans activists that make cybernats look like saints and have strong links to leadership.

    93. HYUFD says:

      Solarflare 52% of UK voters voted to Leave the EU in 2016, so Boris is just implementing that result.

      54% of Scots voted to stay in the UK in 2014 in what Salmond promised was a ‘once in a generation vote’ and as YouGov today confirms most Scots do not want another indyref for at least 5 years

    94. Dan says:

      @Pete Barton

      No, it was Better Together pish from back in the the day.
      More of their shit that didn’t stand the test of considerably less than a generation of time, and created a material change of circumstances too…

      https://twitter.com/uk_together/status/506899714923843584?lang=en

    95. sassenach says:

      Wow, FUD is really going some today!!
      The overtime he will be getting should help his next holiday, anyway.

    96. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      It’s a shame that somebody who tends to be correct in grammar and spelling, is confused by the difference between “opinion” and “promise”.

      I blame the brainwashing…

    97. Andrew Rosie says:

      2021 will be 7 years after the first independence referendum. The Good Friday Agreement – signed by the UK Government – defined “a generation” as 7 years.

      STV News reported on this latest opinion poll but of course the BBC Reporting Scotland never mention opinion polls but only source stories from the Unionist Press which will no doubt wheel out the Scotland In Union Tory shield Pamela Nash but never anyone from say Business for Scotland with more members than SiU or any other non SNP pro indy organisation. Funny that?

    98. CameronB Brodie says:

      HYUFD
      You still trying to wind the natives up, you sad little Toryboy? Still not found any mates yet, fannybaws?

      The Seeds of Change: Attitudinal Stability and the
      Direction of Attitudinal Change across the Lifespan

      https://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1045&context=poliscitheses

    99. Pete Barton says:

      Yup, we get the frustration.

      I don’t mind a mature democratic engagement, with a code of engagement.

      What does most people’s nuts in is being told an opinion is truth.

      We lack the channels to get another counter opinion out there, and if it does get out there, there is no balanced debate.

      Only what power wants us to hear.

      But when a country’s people get to the tipping point, (which I reckon is not far off) when they realise they’ve been taken the piss out of then no amount of Brit fairy dust sprinkled on their eyes or more pennies to jangle in their pocket will roll back the years.

      The people of Scotland will get what they wish for.

      Simples.

    100. Joe says:

      Sick of saying it.

      The indy argument would be consistently over the line by now in every poll if the indy movement could stop being so insufferably fucking progressive.

      Scottish independence has been solidly tied to certain other things now thanks to clueless Indy supporters. Not everyone can’t see through socialism. Not everyone is blind to the EU. Some of us don’t live with our heads up our arses. Comprendo?

      That’s not even mentioning the SN fucking P.

      By now if most of you haven’t figured this crowd out to be the bought and paid bitches of globalist money and the perverted agendas they push then you might as well go back to reading the Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe for all the real world perspective you have.

      Scottish independence. Whats the biggest barrier? A large chunk of the utter arseholes who supposedly support it. The silent majority are somewhat disquieted by the antics we see.

      To the people concerned – stop tying Scottish independence with your bullshit nonsense socialist/feminist/utopian LGBTRFE5G fantasies that a mere cursory glance at the history of the 20th century (or a basic course on economics) would debunk and also stop, for the love of fuck, pretending that Scotland would be an autonomous independent country in the EU.

      I wont hold my breath though. In the meantime – have a very Merry Brexit 🙂

    101. jfngw says:

      @HYUFD

      If we use 2014 promises then Scotland must stay in the EU for at least a generation as this was the No side argument, guaranteed membership of the EU. If opinions (not promises) on the Yes side are to be the arbritor then the No side need to keep the actual promises they made. And the EU membership was just the tip of the iceberg of No lies.

      I know you are a Tory and lying to win is just second nature (primary I actually think), hopefully we will have a better political system once we throw off the corruption that is Westminster.

    102. CameronB Brodie says:

      I don’t think HYUFD appreciates just how out of his depth he is here. I don’t think that would matter to him though, as he appears to be a rather chauvinistic personality type. Typical of your common all garden Toryboy.

      N.B. Conservatism does not denote Torydum.

      Full text.

      Poor metacognitive awareness of belief change

      Abstract

      When people change beliefs as a result of reading a text, are they aware of these changes? This question was examined for beliefs about spanking as an effective means of discipline. In two experiments, subjects reported beliefs about spanking effectiveness during a prescreening session. In a subsequent experimental session, subjects read a one-sided text that advocated a belief consistent or inconsistent position on the topic. After reading, subjects reported their current beliefs and attempted to recollect their initial beliefs.

      Subjects reading a belief inconsistent text were more likely to change their beliefs than those who read a belief consistent text. Recollections of initial beliefs tended to be biased in the direction of subjects’ current beliefs. In addition, the relationship between the belief consistency of the text read and accuracy of belief recollections was mediated by belief change. This belief memory bias was independent of on-line text processing and comprehension measures, and indicates poor metacognitive awareness of belief change.

      Keywords
      Beliefs, belief change, metacognition, comprehension, recollection

      https://journals.sagepub.com/eprint/WkSnGSiPrqik7WURTaSu/full

    103. george wood says:

      I don’t think there should be too much surprise that people are divided on when Indref2 should be.

      A significant proportion of people are waiting for Brexit to happen before making their choice and since that won’t happen until next year, if they are leaning towards yes, they would rather wait to be sure.

      A thing to rermember is that saying you will vote Yes in an opinion poll is a lot easier for soft-Yessers than actually doing it in the poll booth. Opinion polls over estimate the Yes position as they don’t allow for cold feet.

      51% is more realistically around 46% in terms of where we are in public opinion which is higher than in the Indyref1 result with a campaign to come.

    104. Robert Louis says:

      You know, imagine you are De pfeffle Johnson. You have a Scottish First Minister who complains about everything you do, but when she wins huge majorities and gets clear democratic mandates to act in Scotland’s interests, she is like a feartie. Afraid to stand up for what she and her party says they truly believe in. It is hardly surprising Boris ignores her.

      So, far, Depfeffle has not had to do anything. From his perspective, he just every now and then hears some moans from the SNP, but that is all. Nothing affects him, UNTIL THE SNP ACTUALLY DO SOMETHING.

      Even the idea of indyref, Brois was told by the FM, that she would only hold a referendum with a section 30. This is something she announced publicly – revealing her hand, when she didn’t have to (as she has done so often before)- So Boris does not need to do a thing. Nothing is happening, all he needs to do is say no to a section 30, and say it so often that the idea of doing so seems actually, quite normal.

      Chances are, that if NS actually called a referendum, like she should have done in 2016, the Tories would moan and groan, but just go along with it. It’s like the SNP are afraid to use the power they have – or maybe they do not even realise it.

      You have to see it from De pfeffle’s viewpoint. So far, to him, Scotland has bee zero trouble at all. To him, there is not even a problem.

      The SNP have shown repeated weakness by continually backing down, over and over again. Who blinked first? The FM, when she asked Theresa for a section 30, got a knock back, and just went away all quiet, then ultimately pretended she hadn’t even asked for a sectoion 30 at all!

      After the brexit withdrawal act’s theft of Scottish sovereignty, every single SNP MP should have left Westminster for good. Standing up in the commons week after week making ‘great speeches’, which are ignored, is totally pointless. Maybe it makes the likes of Iain Blackford feel important. And talking of Iain, he repeatedly asserted in the HoC, that Scotland would not be taken out of the EU against its wishes. Well guess what, it has just happened.

      It all just makes the SNP, and especially NS look pathetic and weak. ‘We want a referendum’, ‘no’, oh that’s not fair etc…etc..’ I mean if I was in Boris’s shoes, I’d not worry about it either.

      Tomorrow, the FM can either stand up at last for Scotland and announce how she will assert Scotland’s soveriengty, or she will, as usual, just witter on about getting a mandate or something or other. The words Toom tabard, spring to mind. Nicola Sturgeon, Scotland’s modern day, John Balliol.

      Meanwhile the people of Scotland are crying out for somebody to do something.

      Tomorrow we will find out if the SNP are up to genuinely standing up for Scotland’s legal and constitutional rights, or if they are all just hot air. I fear it will be the latter.

    105. CameronB Brodie says:

      Joe
      I don’t think the principle of universal human rights can honestly be considered radically progressive. Not in the 21st century. Do you?

    106. David R says:

      Quick one on the “once in a generation” if the UK gov are happy for the FM to set the periodicity of an indy ref then it should be for the FM to define what a “generation” is.

      Something you’d think the SNP would want to test rather than waffle on about Brexit.

    107. Boudicca says:

      Interesting thought from Indycar Gordon. The Queen has signed the referendums bill,making it law. We can have a ref on whatever we want. So if de Piffle says ‘no’, presumably the Queen’s royal assent overrules him? Another court case? Appeal to her Maj? Any thoughts?

    108. jfngw says:

      @CameronB Brodie

      HYUFD is not here for a discussion, he comes here to lord over us, he believes he is superior and is just amusing himself baiting us. It’s the childish antics of the bully, he has the same demeanour as his master Johnson.

    109. Josef Ó Luain says:

      Without a live, tangible Indy 2 campaign you can’t expect people to have a studied opinion on what “amounts” to an abstraction.

      A live, concrete campaign requires pro-active leadership, of course – something we haven’t had that since 2014 – therefore, nobody should be surprised in the least that polling numbers have remained more-or-less static since that time.

      Without a live, sustained campaign those numbers won’t be going anywhere … except downwards.

    110. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Dr Jim @ 19:08,

      Yes, there’s much sorry truth in what you write there. (The Irish were particularly scathing about how we communally funked it back in 2014, as well they might.) Not to forget how long it took us to be reconciled to devolution, and that was with quite a lot of help from parties who are not exactly supportive now. (Hello, FibDems – can’t even bring yourselves to vote to keep the EU flag flying – is there any policy now you haven’t reneged upon?)

      But we are where we are, shameful as it is. But all we really need from Ma is a reminder of the faxts of life and a good push out the door. Something definitive to aim for, so we don’t just sit aimlessly aboot the hoose pointlessly whinging at each other and airily dreaming of better times to come one fine distant day.

      And I’m still convinced that once we do get out the door and going properly, we’ll together get to where we need to get, and in a very soon fine day.

    111. Elmac says:

      Robert Louis @ 7.57

      My sentiments exactly.

    112. ScottieDog says:

      Wish I could go back 10 years and post all this negativity over a poll which puts YES in the lead.
      Less than 10 years ago labour had a whopping majority of Scottish MPs. The SNP were a minority govt at holyrood.

      The tories (champions of language framing – by some measure) must be loving this.

      Folks, the majority of people literally ARE literally eating their cereal, going to work, struggling to make ends meet, coming home and watching mindless shite on TV to dull the effects of the daily grind. In between that they get snippets of subtle media propaganda – a campaign that never goes away (and we haven’t even started ours)

      How many people were really interested in leaving Europe until a brilliantly simplistic slogan – “taking back control” (really wish we had reserved that) was foist upon them during an active campaign.

      The tories know they will lose a future referendum on independence – the very reason they are desperately trying to frame it as illegal.

      The majority of folk aren’t interested in politics, but they ARE interested in a brighter future and only a political campaign will get them to take notice. Opinion polls just now are like holding a match to a wet log. For want of a better phrase in time of environmental calamity – we need to set the heather on fire.

    113. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      jfngw @ 20:07,

      Exactly. He must have a sorry personal life if he has to get his entertainment like this. Unless someone were paying him, I suppose. But he’s totally not worth that.

      These days I just scroll on by. On the avoid-the-cow-pat principle.

    114. terence callachan says:

      majority of Scots now favour independence

      So what is your definition of “ Scots “ ?

      Is it every person that lives in Scotland no matter what their nationality is ?

      Because there are many nationalities in Scotland

      Don’t you mean “ majority of voters in Scotland now in favour of independence “. .?

    115. Unionist Media BDSM Club says:

      There’s a discrepancy in the agegroup polled. The graphics on Yougov’s site claim ‘Scots aged 16+’ but the tables mention 18-24 as the youngest group polled: https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/cqi01wjj1n/Internal_ScotIndependence_200129.pdf

      The categories in those tables match pretty well with recent Yougov polls that definitely didn’t poll 16- to 17-year-olds: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_on_Scottish_independence#Post-referendum_polling

      So it looks possible that this group weren’t polled this time round, meaning Yes is really at least 52-48 ahead.

      I can’t find figures anywhere to say whether EU nationals were polled, but if not, we’d be over 52.

    116. terence callachan says:

      one. After all, if the voters REALLY wanted independence why wouldn’t they want a vote on it?

      Because a lot of them are English or foreign nationals ( non EU ) who are just saying what the British nationalist MPs in Westminster were saying a few weeks ago which is no referendum til 2022 or 2025 or 2049 etc etc
      These English folk
      and foreign nationals ( who were given their British citizenship and British passport by Westminster )
      are trying to avoid being undemocratic by saying they agree to a referendum being held but just not soon when in fact what they really crave “ is never”

    117. SilverDarling says:

      Where is the promise that it would be once in a generation?

      Nowhere has there ever been a ‘promise’ saying such a thing. Trying to manipulate those words is the only thing the unionists have.

      It was a different leader and even if his deputy use the same phrase to galvanise voters it was not in her gift to promise away my or anyone else’s chance to vote.

      It was a warning, a rousing rallying cry.

      NOT. A. PROMISE.

    118. terence callachan says:

      Remember too that yougov is a britnat supporter financed by them too
      They say just over a thousand people questioned

      They keep records over the years
      They categorise these records
      They know how people will answer before they ask the question
      So it’s easy for them to manipulate their poll

      And they do

      Just in time to counter SNP and Nicola sturgeon

      Don’t be fooled by it

      A majority want independence NOW

      Our big problem is the huge number of English people living in Scotland who cannot believe their luck being granted a vote on the future of Scotland
      A country they do not hold allegiance to

      Mother England is where their vote will always go

    119. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      From the YouGov results…

      “Should Scotland be an independent country?”

      Age profile…

      18-24
      Yes 62%
      No 38%

      25-49
      Yes 67%
      No 33%

      50-64
      Yes 46%
      No 54%

      65+
      Yes 25%
      No 75%

      https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/cqi01wjj1n/Internal_ScotIndependence_200129.pdf

    120. jfngw says:

      Tory leadership race turning nasty, secret recordings! God I hope it’s not a sex tape, I don’t know if I could stomach a Carlaw sex face, I’m feeling queasy just imagining it.

    121. solarflare says:

      “SilverDarling says:
      30 January, 2020 at 8:24 pm
      Where is the promise that it would be once in a generation?
      Nowhere has there ever been a ‘promise’ saying such a thing. Trying to manipulate those words is the only thing the unionists have.
      It was a different leader and even if his deputy use the same phrase to galvanise voters it was not in her gift to promise away my or anyone else’s chance to vote.
      It was a warning, a rousing rallying cry.
      NOT. A. PROMISE.”

      And even if it was, precisely what legal relevance to anything would it have…

    122. terence callachan says:

      The prime minister lies to you
      He lies to everyone

      Westminster lies to you
      So do most of it’s MP,s

      The newspapers lie to you
      BBC and STV lie to you

      Businesses lie to you RBS , Tesco etc etc

      And yet some people , surprisingly that includes WOS
      actually believe these polls all produced in England are honest reliable polls

      Give me strength
      Get a life

      Polls , all of them in U.K. tell lies and are corrupt

      They are just another Westminster tentacle

      Westminster will stop at nothing
      Surely you know that by now ?

    123. terence callachan says:

      Where are the journalists that investigate polling in U.K.

    124. Lynne says:

      Unionist Media BDSM Club says:
      30 January, 2020 at 8:17 pm
      There’s a discrepancy in the agegroup polled. The graphics on Yougov’s site claim ‘Scots aged 16+’ but the tables mention 18-24 as the youngest group polled

      You could have hit on something there. YouGov surveys ‘adults’, by which it presumably means 18+.
      https://yougov.co.uk/about/panel-methodology/

      This would significantly depress the pro-Yes figures.

    125. terence callachan says:

      “ here’s a discrepancy in the agegroup polled. The graphics on Yougov’s site claim ‘Scots aged 16+’ but the tables mention 18-24 as the youngest group polled: https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/cqi01wjj1n/Internal_ScotIndependence_200129.pdf

      The categories in those tables match pretty well with recent Yougov polls that definitely didn’t poll 16- to 17-year-olds: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_on_Scottish_independence#Post-referendum_polling“”

      So here is the first evidence this poll is lying

      Was it an accident that they say they polled 16/17 yr olds but didn’t ?

      Of course it was

      Just like BBC replacing footage of drunken BJ laying poppy wreath
      With 3 yr old sober BJ

      These polls are lying to you

    126. SilverDarling says:

      @solarflare 8:24 pm

      Exactly!

    127. jfngw says:

      Which party do I despise the most, strangely it’s not the Tories, they are out and out bastards, are proud of it and don’t try to disguise the fact, they lie with confidence.

      Not Labour, they are just pitiable.

      It’s the LibDem’s, they pretend to be you friend while quietly stabbing you in the back, the most untrustworthy party in Scotland (probably the UK). Pretend to be a EU party at the same time as supporting Scotland being dragged out of the EU, a British (English to be precise, we must obey what England wants) Nationalist party to its core.

    128. Unionist Media BDSM Club says:

      Robert J. Sutherland says:
      30 January, 2020 at 8:16 pm
      jfngw @ 20:07,

      Exactly. He must have a sorry personal life if he has to get his entertainment like this. Unless someone were paying him, I suppose.
      ——————-

      A ranking of this site’s Unionists, from least to most pathetic:

      1. Self-declared Yoons who drop in once in a blue moon to discuss the issues. Unlikely any of these are being paid.

      2. Self-declared Yoons who come here to gloat that Boris will send in the troops, etc. Seems unlikely the British state would pay anyone to do this, but you never know.

      3. Fantatical amateurs who pretend to support independence but who’re really here to just stir up shit and probably give their fellow Yoons and laugh or two.

      4. The absolute dregs: men (they’re all male) whose lives have been such a fiasco they’ve ended up in jobs where they pretend hourly to support independence but are really here to demoralise and divide and generally just stir up shit, and who have a curious fixation on arguing for UDI. They weep a lot as they type their drivel, remembering the dreams they once had of a fulfilling, non-degrading future.

    129. Dr Jim says:

      One government cannot bind the hands of the next: Jacob Reese Mogg
      In which case no matter what anybody said at any time legal or not legal a generation is politically five years or we would never need to vote again until somebody defined their version of the length of which kind of generation anybody meant

      It’s a Unionist crap cop out because they’re terrified of losing Scotland, her cash, her assets,her location, and the fffffking brains that invented the modern world and are still doing it today

      What did England ever do that wasn’t at the end of a bayonet wielded by someone else from another country pressed into service for them, or praise themselves for their German scientists being better than somebody else’s German scientists

      Why do we buy German or Japanese everything, because buying British meant it was crap and it fffffking broke and the rest of the world rejected it and built better stuff and now we’re buying it because it works and it lasts

      The only thing England has ever been good at was conning other countries into fighting amongst themselves, and now we’re ffffffking doing it instead of fighting those Bastirts

      The English must be the thickest bunch of people on the planet to fall for the crap that they have a Monarchy and a democracy at the same time when the rest of the world knows all they have is a chocolate box tin with pictures on to sell to tourists

    130. Tinto Chiel says:

      Doug:
      “The public are waiting for a strong lead, for purpose. Give them that and they will follow – now, and not in five years time. That lead must come from the Scottish government.”

      Craig Murray:
      “Leadership shifts opinion. You change the dynamic by doing something. If the SNP continues to sit on its collective arse until a poll magically says people want a referendum, it will never happen.”

      I don’t think polls will move without a campaign directed with conviction and energy. At the moment Boris could drain the blood from a hundred Scottish virgins and the response from many would be, “’Sthatnaeoffy? Whit’s on the telly?”

      That simple, really.

    131. Effijy says:

      The polls are as corrupt as Westminster.
      All results to favour a result as close to what
      The paymaster wants.

      Great result for this one to say we are a little but in front.
      As Scottish Boxers said about fighting an American boxer
      In America, a foreigner needs to kill their opponent to get
      A draw from the judges.

      Today’s Tory NHS murder involves a married mother who worked
      For many years as a nurse.

      For 3 years the Tory NHS assured her smear tests were clear.
      After persistent and increasing symptoms and pain she went private
      Where they confirmed her worse fears that she has cancer all these years.

      She needlessly died.

      The Tories ran the NHS there since 2010.
      10 years of mass murder by neglect.
      Death by a thousand Austerity cuts!

      Now let HIFUD and Pete tell us we will be better off in Toryland.

      Move on to the Scottish pigeon dropping story again and SNP Bad.

      FFS

    132. Unionist Media BDSM Club says:

      Hi lynn.

      Did you see any info on whether Yougov Scottish polls include EU nationals? Not doing so would depress the Yes vote further.

    133. HYUFD says:

      Effijy If anything that is an example of the NHS leading to learn from the private sector as it was private healthcare that diagnosed her despite frequent NHS smear tests

    134. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      “If anything that is an example of the NHS leading to learn from the private sector”

      I’m sorry I posted that remark about grammar and spelling.

      What does the above quote actually mean? I find it incomprehensible.

    135. John Jones says:

      Boris promised ” once in a generation general election” on the 8th of Decenmber last year, so no more until 2060. he also said he’d die in a ditch, nae luck there either.
      SNP want us activists out pushing for indy, so we’re asked what about this or that.
      Here’s the draft constitution (not printed yet.)
      here’s the currency plan (oops not out yet)
      This is the import /export figures for the last ? years, (sorry not got those either)
      The only information available is what we ourselves are digging up from the internet.
      Looks like we are going back to the greenshield stamp and Embassy coupon days, (for the young among you these were collected and redeemed for goods) get ten mandates for a free referendum, only another 5 or 6 to go, I should live that long.

    136. HYUFD says:

      OK, needing to learn from the private sector would have been better

    137. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      ScottieDog @ 20:15,

      My sentiments also.

      And a worthy reminder – thank you – that 50%+ is just as big a deal as it ever was – the kind of result that brought palpitations and ructions among the BritNats back in ’14 which resulted in the poop doop of the Vow.

      And what have they to offer now? – nada with a thin crust of entitled arrogance.

      Well, that’s becoming more obvious by the day. Some folks might be reluctant to acknowledge it still, but they’re surely realising it all the same. It’s but a small step to go the whole way.

    138. Dan says:

      Dr Jim says: at 8:48 pm

      Why do we buy German or Japanese everything, because buying British meant it was crap and it fffffking broke and the rest of the world rejected it and built better stuff and now we’re buying it because it works and it lasts

      Ha! How very timely Dr Jim. But cheers for reminding me I have to get back on with sorting that heap of shite Triumph TR7 engine next week.
      This week I haz mostly been working on classic German cars and a classic Japanese motorbike. All from the 70s and still very much in reasonable condition, unlike British cars from that era that disintegrated and are now parked in atomic dust form somewhere on the periodic table of elements.

    139. Pete says:

      Effigy
      HYUFD is spot on with the case in point.
      NHS was hopeless, private healthcare sorted the problem but too late.
      Anyway, people like me and lots of friends could well be attracted to independence if it wasn’t for all the leftish crap which is spouted out on here along with pro Palestinianism and support for hopeless regimes plus the SNP is riddled with LGBT types who have no idea of what family life entails.
      As things stand independence is further away than ever as the average Scot is socially conservative.
      It’s also obvious that most of the posters on here are either unemploy/ed/able or retired as most normal people are far too busy doing productive activities.

    140. solarflare says:

      Are you neither normal nor productive then Pete?

    141. let’s hope NS stands up tomorrow and declares the date for the next indy ref.
      i’ve got my boots ready at the door – had enough now.
      diid not vote to leave the EU, will not accept any of the Brexit 50p coins,

      Now’s the time and now’s the hour!

      Hail Caesar!

    142. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Apropos of how best to proceed now, I’m reminded of the immediate aftermath of the late HoC walkout, with a flashmob demo on the RCH steps which had Stewart Macdonald MP as one of the speakers. He seemed genuinely surprised at the degree of public support which that dramatic one-off gesture had garnered. (It led to an immediate upsurge in SNP membership, you may recall.) My feeling at the time, and which persists, is that SNP reps in general actually rather underestimate the degree to which the public is ready and primed for a rather more-aggressive lead from them.

      You certainly can’t afford to get too far ahead of where the public currently sits, but that doesn’t seem to be anything like the danger right now. Rather the reverse.

      Obviously HoC walkouts are a fast-depreciating asset, so must be used sparingly, but any “official” action that resonates with people in such a way is worth considering.

      I think many people are just waiting for a lead, and the first person/group to make them a positive offer could really win big.

    143. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      23:01hrs tomorrow, Boris Johnson will ‘take back control’

      Shortly after his Neo-Fascist Right Wing “One Nation” Conservative Government will impose fracking and GM crops, plaster the Butcher’s Apron on Scotch whisky, Aberdeen Angus Beef, Arbroath Smokies, Stornoway Black Pudding and Ayrshire Potatoes, gift Scottish fishing quota to the English fishing fleet and starve Scottish farmers, business and infrastructure of money the Scottish Government used to give them via the EU.

      Our NHS will be subsumed into a ‘UK’ NHS, and Richard Branson and US Healthcare (whose shareholders are BritNat MPs and Lords) will be gifted your GP Practice, A&E, and PFI will spread to hospitals and schools not already conned into decades of debt to Offshore Money Men by Gordon Brown, the ‘prudent’ Clunking Fist Arch Neo Tory during his time in power.

      Holyrood will be disbanded over time, probably as short as 2 years, and we Scots will be held as prisoners and serfs in the last English colony, forbidden by our Overlords from travelling, working, resettling or retiring in our own continent Europe, by English/US 51st State ‘Homeland Security’.

      Our passports become worthless overnight on the 31st December 2020!

      Our young educated professionals will emigrate for their own good (a modern day clearances!)

      We are to be held under ‘house arrest’ for the rest of our lives.

      It is as stark as that.

      We demand our Freedom.

      If Jackson Carlaw, Ripcord Leotard, Wee Wullie 1p and the rest of that evil bunch of ProudScotsBut Brit Nats are fed up with our demands for Freedom, let them fuck off South to the ‘Mother Country’.

      I’ll take at least four to Gretna free, gratis.

      They hate the thought of a proud independent Scotland,
      not least of all because it would signal the end of their Elitist Oligarchy, epitomised by the Byres Road Collective, The Edinburgh Set and the Oil Barons to the North East.

      I am as mad as hell, and I am not going to take any more.

      ‘Dark Money’ from Saudi Arabia and Israel to Scots Tories via the Religious Nuts in Norn Irn?

      Nice little earner for betraying the land of your birth.

      Jesus, why the fuck do we tolerate all of this nonsense any more?

      But never mind, a compliant wee BritNat will be on the box at Teatime assuring us that all is right with the world, but Scotland Shite ‘cos EssEnnPeeBAaad!

      Oh look, another Toodle Oo The Noo squirrel.

      All to look forward to from 23:01hrs tomorrow!

      🙁

    144. Dr Jim says:

      @Dan

      I used to have a TR7 it was good to drive in straight lines and a nightmare to repair, it felt like it weighed several tons, now I drive a Mercedes, it’s 16 years old now but never breaks and i’d be loathe to part with it

    145. Dan says:

      @meg merrilees

      I don’t think a “Brexit” 50 pence coin should be considered Regal tender in Scotland, what with oor queen not standing up for the democratically expressed wishes of Scots.

    146. CameronB Brodie says:

      HYFUD
      So in what respect do you understand knowledge and learning? Where’s your empirical evidence and critical analysis? We already know you’re a bit of a bigot, so there’s no need for you to prove it, Toryboy.

      Is the Private Sector more Efficient?
      A cautionary tale

      Executive summary

      Key points:
      No model of ownership (public, private, or mixed) is intrinsically more efficient than the others, but there are efficiency differences within certain service sectors and specific contexts.

      Literature which broadly compares efficiency between public and private models lacks rigour, whereas sectoral literature, especially in health and education, is more rigorous although often inconclusive.

      Efficiency of service provision under all ownership models depends on factors such as competition, regulation, autonomy in recruitment and salary, and wider financial and legal institutional development.

      https://www.undp.org/content/dam/undp/library/capacity-development/English/Singapore%20Centre/GCPSE_Efficiency.pdf

    147. Mike d says:

      Who are these 49%?. A cancer eating away at our freedom.

    148. Graf Midgehunter says:

      That’s it, I’ve had enough of hoping that a miracle’s going to happen. WM’s finally brought the UK to the brink and in full view of the world is gonna jump without a parachute.

      I want three things, Independence, a Scottish passport/nationality and to stay a European.

      Unless NS & Co comes up with the goods or at least opens the gate for us all to swarm through in the next two days, then I’m going my own way.

      Tommorow morning 8.30am I’ll be giving in my application für German citizenship. Everything’s ready, the authorities have been helpful and made it easy to prepare. No f****ng computer processing it, it’s human beings who decide.

      It costs € 255,- and I’ll get a passport and ID-card included.

      I don’t think I need to remind you what EU citizens have to do and pay, if they’re lucky, to get accepted to Brit. citizenship.

      It just highlights the vicious attitude of “England” to anyone from the other side of the Channel or world. Disgusting.

      I’ll keep the UK one as I’ll need it for when I swap it for the Scottish one. (sigh)

      Anyway I’ll just have couple of glasses of Ouzo to help the Greek economy first…! 🙂

    149. Mike d says:

      Jockanese wind talker.9.40pm. These tory bastards have unleashed the whirlwind.

    150. Mike d says:

      My dad was a born belfast repuplican. Scotland, do you have half his conviction?

    151. Mike d says:

      Or are.you feartie cowards?

    152. Mike d says:

      Wha’s like you’s,?apparently nae cunt wae a backbone .

    153. schrodingers cat says:

      stu
      i tried following the lines on the graph. couldnt do it, made me feel nauseous. could you redo it as a magic eye image?

      some points for you to consider

      51% with ZERO serious campaigning for indyref2 from the SNP for years is a pretty decent result.

      Did you see any info on whether Yougov Scottish polls include EU nationals? Not doing so would depress the Yes vote further.

      Yougov’s site claim ‘Scots aged 16+’ but the tables mention 18-24 as the youngest group polled:

      The poll’s lack of support for indref2 is most likely just voter mood right after a winter GE which came on top of 2019’s prolonged brexit fight.

      Are the “support a referendum” results distorted by the fact a Unionist would state “Should not” to ALL options, whereas a Yes voter may just have stated “Should” for their SINGLE preferred option?

      Could someone explain how the “do you think there should or should not be a referendum on Scottish independence… [four date options]?” question could have been structured to cope with this?

      Far more important is the 7% swing to Yes.

      51 to 49 in favour of an independent Scotland, yes its not a huge margin, but its a move in the right direction, a positive move, and we shoukd see it as that.

      Scot Goes POP, agrees its a good result, he also says what we all, already know that YouGov are a no friendly pollster.

      So I’ll assume that the figure is higher than 51% around the country.

      manandboy says:
      Wings comments has become a Unionist troll meeting place.

      yes it has

    154. Lynne says:

      Unionist Media BDSM Club says:
      30 January, 2020 at 8:51 pm
      Hi lynn.

      Did you see any info on whether Yougov Scottish polls include EU nationals? Not doing so would depress the Yes vote further.

      Good point. It just says ‘British adults’.

    155. CameronB Brodie says:

      Failure to resist Brexit undermines the international rule-of-law. This will hurt Scotland but it will hurt the world’s poor all the more. This is because Brexit undermines the principle of universal human rights.

      You might not think you lack human rights in Scotland, but believe me, your access to human rights is it already impaired if you live in Scotland, (see the Right to Development, for example). Brexit will simply exacerbate these conditions. Without full access to human rights, one should not imagine one lives in a social democracy. If you want to be taken seriously, anyway.

      LOCKING IN DEMOCRACY:
      CONSTITUTIONS, COMMITMENT, AND
      INTERNATIONAL LAW

      https://chicagounbound.uchicago.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2434&context=journal_articles

    156. yesbot says:

      Raging@ Stuart’s tweet tonight in relation to this poll:

      “Scotland condemned to a rancid future by people who don’t have one.”

      Doubled down by the extremely odious supporting Tweets which it attracted. “The old are so selfish” etc, wow!

      God forbid if you’re old. Seems we require to be cancelled for Independence!!

      Frankly I think it’s the young’eens in the movement.. Out4Indy, YSI etc who are destroying the Snp and the yes movement.

      Breeks, 100% with you.

    157. CameronB Brodie says:

      It’s the over 50s who need persuading the most. The success ratio for conversions will be lower for this group, but they are a significant portion of the electorate. A good proportion of who are rational human beings who may be less certain about politics than is necessary to protect their democratic rights.

      Like Brexit, Scotland’s constitutional dilemma highlights a generational fracture in society, grounded in different educational and cultural perspectives.

      You certainly don’t make friends and influence people by calling them wanks. Leave that sort of abuse for the proper wanks, like the ones stripping Scotland of her history and legal identity. Re-writing constitutional law on the fly, they must think our heads zip up the back.

    158. Dan says:

      The same situation as from late in 2014.

      Independence is inevitable, but needs enough of the large over 65 group to be replaced by the 16-18 group.

      Then the balance tips massively in favour of independence.

      It’s simply a matter of time.

    159. Chic McGregor says:

      @Liz

      “Probably the only thing that will shift the polls is a Yes Campaign.
      We know that’s what shifted the numbers before,and were a lot better organised this time round.”

      Of course I agree with that basic logic but have some concerns over the premise that ‘We’re a lot better organised this time round.’

      The AngloNats (which includes self-loathing Scots) having been alerted last time, there will be a lot more moles and placed personnel from that establishment than there ever was last time round and there was plenty last time round. (Don’t need to look too far in this forum.)

      It is the incitement to violence or, conversely, the enervation which those placements are directed to implement which we must be wary of.

      I have no doubt that we will have more inciters to violence and energy sappers than we had last time round.

      I do hope that at grassroots and at political level we have enough key folk alerted to that certainty.

      On the plus side, as someone once said, there is no force as irresistible as an idea whose time has come.

    160. K1 says:

      Just to help those who are attempting to understand what HYFUD is about, his name is Simon and he’s a failed Tory councillor from down south(thought not sure if that’s still the case). I like to post this every few months for any newcomers.

      He’s been around here since autumn 2018 and when you see this below you will see instantly he is not here to debate, he thinks he’s some sort of colonial captain come to subdue the natives and he’s no shy about stating that in his own inimitable dreadfully dull style:

      16 September, 2018 at 12:24 am
      For all those who haven’t had the absolute pleasure of ‘debating’ with HYFUD or whatever, he’s already declared ‘why’ he’s here:

      ‘HYUFD says:
      2 September, 2018 at 5:18 pm
      The Tories got a higher voteshare in 2017 across the UK than the SNP got in Scotland at the general election which really says it all.
      I will of course never apologise for having pressing the Unionist case hard, if you do not like that as a diehard Nationalist, tough.

      HYUFD says:
      2 September, 2018 at 5:24 pm
      I could of course not care less what anybody on this forum thinks, I came here to press the Unionist case hard and take on the Nationalists (and any party which puts National identity first is by definition Nationalist). Notice the brilliant Ruth Davidson by taking a tough hard approach to nationalists has seen her party’s vote surge, she is undoubtedly as tough a Unionist leader as Salmond was for Nationalists

      HYUFD says:
      2 September, 2018 at 5:29 pm
      You will no doubt whinge as ever about Scotland’s woes despite the fact it now has its own Parliament which decides most Scotgish domestic issues and representatives at Westminster too. The Tories have of course halved unemployment from 2010 and reduced the deficit too but that is a different matter however no doubt you will whinge about that too’
      —————————-
      He’s here to ‘destroy’ us ‘Nats’ and if you want a real insight into why it’s a complete waste of time even responding to him…it starts about here on the 19th of August, on ‘The Cereal Offenders’, thread. There is nothing you can say to him as his mind is made up and if you continue to read to the end of that thread…you’ll understand exactly who you are dealing with, it’s nothing but ‘rinse and repeat’, he’s no here to debate:
      https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-cereal-offenders/#comment-2385457

    161. CameronB Brodie says:

      K1
      Thanks for the clarification. Perhaps a bit late, but I can appreciate how my performance towards HYUFD’s ignorant and reactionary bigotry might come across poorly to new readers. I must try harder to come up with new ways of expressing my opposition to his dreadful Torydum. 😉

      —–

      Oi Toryboy, you do know Britain isn’t ‘One Nation’? And you’re the one moaning about nationalists. Not got any mirrors where you live, Toryboy?

      Full text.

      Empirical Assessment of the Quality of Nationalities:
      The Quality of Nationality Index (QNI)

      Abstract
      Contemporary thinking about nationality is surrounded by three persistent mythologies. First, all nationalities are equal. Second, there is a direct correlation between the power and size of the economy of a country and the quality of its nationality. Third, there is a correlation between the
      geographical scope of the rights granted by a nationality and the territory of the conferring state.

      Looking beyond the subjective feelings one may have towards one’s nationality, the widely diverging quality of nationalities can in fact be measured. In the Quality of Nationality Index, which this article introduces and discusses, an attempt has been made to develop and deploy a reliable and straightforward methodology to measure objectively the value of having a particular nationality, which would not be perception-based.

      Nationalities are not equal, as least not under the assumption that the level of expected welfare, education, healthcare, life chances, and global travel and settlement opportunities matter.

      Keywords
      Nationality – citizenship – empirical studies – travel freedom – settlement freedom – quality of nationality

      https://www.researchgate.net/publication/321812815_Empirical_Assessment_of_the_Quality_of_Nationalities_The_Quality_of_Nationality_Index_QNI

    162. Mac says:

      This is a good result. How anyone can read negativity into this poll, is beyond belief.

      Wings has continued its degeneration into a Unionist Trolling Station, aided and abetted by current editorial emphasis and mood.

      It’s a shame

    163. Gary says:

      I think the wrong question has been asked, and continues to be asked.

      We ask if they want a referendum but don’t ask when they say ‘no’ Reasons for saying no obviously include those who are strong unionists but MUST also include those who WANT independence too. Some may say no for fear of losing such a referendum, a smaller number might be swallowing the TV news line that it would be ‘divisive’ and yet more might feel unsure (about the issue itself)

      The ‘unsure’ are, I think, the largest group in ANY referendum. They will stick with the status quo unless they are absolutely SURE a change will be obviously and permanently beneficial. They are at the greatest risk from government propaganda because they are most likely to trust that a government (not the political party itself) will not purposely lie and use propagandist materials and techniques to mislead them.

      We need to find how many people want Scotland to be independent one day – the abstract idea of independence at a future date, I mean and then work on showing that it needs to be NOW. Show them why we can’t wait for that perfect summer’s day when it will all be clear because HMG will ALWAYS muddy the water with propaganda because THAT’S WHAT THEY DO and have always done.

      Whilst it was never up to SNP to save England they did try to save us from being dragged out of the EU, a deal with the Tories for a referendum in exchange for support would’ve KILLED STONE DEAD the chance of winning it, it’d have been mannah from heaven for Labour, ‘Tartan Tories’ would have been the chant. ANOTHER lost IndyRef would’ve been the result and SNP would’ve cooperated in taking US out of the EU and would never be in office again, leaving Labour in charge of Scotland’s welfare again, a scary enough thought in itself.

      If we had a long campaign like last time then we’d win it if it started tomorrow AND we had a fair go at it. But to get to the stage of GETTING a referendum we need overwhelming, embarrassingly high support, to get that we need to overcome the ‘referendum shyness’ of voters.

      NB this is a YouGov poll and only asks those who participate in YouGov polls (well obv!) this does rather skew the result to the ‘axe grinder’ mentality who actually sign up for them, doesn’t it. Your average person in the street doesn’t have time for this stuff…



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