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Wings Over Scotland

No fire in the Reichstag

Posted on January 27, 2020 by

Less than 10 months ago:

Record scratch, jump cut to the present day:

Let’s just hear that again.

“The key thing here in terms of whether someone should have a referendum, if we just think back to David Cameron back in 2013, he didn’t really want an EU referendum but he bet the entire farm on an EU referendum and lost.

And therefore if we disagree with the ends, let’s not facilitate the means, when we’re principally against it.”

Or in other words “we should not allow votes if we might lose them”.

We suppose we should commend Ian Murray for an unusual burst of candour. But we cannot think of a clearer illustration of the failure of a democracy.

And with England having 80% of the votes already, the UK didn’t even need to bother passing an Enabling Act.

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    1. 27 01 20 13:57

      No fire in the Reichstag | speymouth

    195 to “No fire in the Reichstag”

    1. Sharny Dubs says:

      Hear hear.
      As usual a good spy Stu.

      Question is… what now?

    2. Ian Brotherhood says:

      So that’s Murray, Harvie and Rennie all, in the space of a few days, affirming that they are fundamentally opposed to democratic processes.

      All the more reason to wonder who the fuck actually needs or votes for Tories.

    3. Almond Chutney says:

      Perhaps. Never trust a politician though, the definition of such is through a cache of lies.

      Funny how people always rebunk a politicians statements as ‘false’ constantly, but choose to harbour those when it suits them for political gain.

    4. Mist001 says:

      “we should not allow votes if we might lose them”.

      But isn’t that Sturgeons position also?

      Here’s what I posted earlier on Craig Murrays board. See if you can disagree with it:

      “I’ve just watched your video and note that you’re wrong on Boris Johnsons position. He has never refused a second Scottish Independence referendum as far as I’m aware. He has however, refused the request made by Nicola Sturgeon for a section 30 order.

      A section 30 order and a second referendum are two quite different things.

      The person who is standing in the way of a second referendum is Nicola Sturgeon herself, who is on public record as quite clearly stating that she will not hold a second independence referendum without first obtaining a section 30 order. This is the so called ‘Gold Standard’.

      She HAS to change her position on a section 30 order otherwise there will never be a second referendum. Westminster will never agree to a section 30 order and I suspect Nicola Sturgeon knows this very well and that’s why she can quite confidently talk about a second independence referendum and keep independence supporters onside which keeps both herself in power and keeps the membership fees coming in and yet, doesn’t have to commit to a second referendum because she can lay the blame at the feet of Boris Johnson.

      I believe it to be disingenuous deceitful behaviour from La Sturgeon but more fool the independence supporters for not seeing this.”

    5. Giving Goose says:

      Ian Murray & Willie Rennie appear to be competing to be the Hard Man of the Union.

      Murray doesn’t actually believe in a carefully articulated vision that has Scottish & English societies best interests at heart.


      It is Union and domination by England of Scotland just because…

      In other words there is a deeper, darker reason for Murray’s views and beliefs. I think I know what that is.

    6. bobajock says:

      Unionists spend their nights ‘battle testing’ bollox about how things should/shouldn’t be (at the same time). To become an MP you need to be in Slithering or something like that.

      Slithering into history as a moron.

    7. dakk says:

      Talking of Reichstag, just had a leave means leave organiser of the College Green Brexit countdown in.(Invited by Tyce apparently) .

      He’s bought a hand held crank air raid alarm and will sound it at 11 o’clock Friday.

      A theme developing.

      It does seem british nationalists are determined to go back to the 30s with the blitzkrieg spirit etc,and they will adopt some of their counterparts methods for good measure.

      How very british.

    8. Chic McGregor says:

      As an elected representative his primary function above all else, is to serve and uphold the principles of democracy. For him to then come out with a democracy denying statement such as this displays a lack of self awareness of the highest order. Quite breathtaking.

      It would be like a minister who says he has come to the conclusion that God does not exist and starts preaching that in his sermons while still expecting to be retained by the presbytery.

      Or like a doctor announcing that he has come to the conclusion that nature should be allowed to take its course in illness unhindered by medical intervention and still expect to be retained on the medical register.

      There is such a bewildering array of examples of democracy denying among unionist politicians that one can only be left with two conclusions.

      1. They are participating in a collective form of delusional insanity.


      2. That they have secretly given up on democracy in the UK.

    9. Stoker says:

      @ Mist001 on 27 January, 2020 at 1:43 pm

      One thing is certain, come the end of this week you will either be proved correct or proved to be waffling utter crap.

      On reading your post i got the idea that; what if you’re almost right? Meaning that what if you are spot on, to a point, but it has all been deliberately crafted this way as a distraction from the real agenda? Some legal route that will be hugely beneficial to Scotland?

      What then? Or am i being too optimistic and giving them more credit than they deserve? As i’ve said we will find out very soon who are correct and who are not (putting it politely).

    10. terence callachan says:

      But you have to understand that with these people their standards and principles are fluid
      To these people Referendums are only democratic if it’s a referendum they want to have and are confident they will win

      Nothing new

      If you are only just discovering that Mr Murray and other people have no morals no loyalty or care for other people you have led a sheltered life
      We are surrounded by people like Mr Murray who can switch off any thoughts about how other people suffer in this world they say to themselves

      “ I didn’t start it”
      “ I can’t stop it”

      And for them that’s justification enough to join in
      Fully or Partly

      It makes no difference if it’s fully or partly they are still guilty

      The question is

      Will they pay for it ?

    11. Colin Alexander says:


      Agreed. There was no condition about an s30 order for an indyref in the SNP 2016 Holyrood manifesto. It said:

      “We believe that the Scottish Parliament should have the right to hold another referendum… if there is a significant and material change in the circumstances that prevailed in 2014, such as Scotland being taken out of the EU against our will”.

      Clearly, that condition has been met.

      Sturgeon continues to insist on a “legal” referendum and what is legal depends on what laws are relevant, some of which can impose competing duties.

      eg obeying constitutional law and sovereignty of Scotland’s people and The Charter of the United Nations regarding the right of self-determination v The Scotland Act 1998 /2016.

      There are good grounds to consider an indyref legal, without an s30. Eg the legal opinion of Aidan O’Neill advocate and others.

      However, ultimately only a court has the power to decide what is legal or not.

      The SNP / Scottish Parliament have a duty to deliver on the indyref mandate. Their primary duty is to the people of Scotland, not to Bojo and the Imperial UK.

    12. Auld Rock says:

      Mist001, sorry pal I think that you are letting the ‘mist’ obscure your vision. Your final assessment is, however, wrong, without an S30 any Referendum will not only be challenged in the courts by the yoons but will probably be boycotted. But I think burning Westminster down has certain attractions, like saving between £10 & £20 billion!!!

    13. terence callachan says:

      Mist 001…
      You are just a blether
      You talk nonsense on here day in day out and even though plenty of people tell you
      you continue to blether nonsense

      Still you harp on and on about how you live in France but can vote in a Scottish independence referendum
      And when confronted
      You supply a link from about eligibility to vote in general elections ?
      Clearly unaware that you have to live in Scotland to vote in a Scottish independence referendum

      And when this is pointed out to you
      You say
      “ but I can vote in a Scottish independence referendum because I have lived in France/overseas less than 15 yrs
      Clearly unaware that the 15years overseas rule does not apply to Scottish referendums

      Your nonsense about Scottish govt requesting a S30 to fool the SNP support is just such a childlike comment
      Nobody would be fooled by such a simple thing and Scottish govt certainly could and would come up with tricks that would work if that was what they wanted to do

      Any fool knows that a S30 is simply thee best route not just for a Scottish dependence referendum because we know very well that a referendum could be held whenever Scottish govt choose to hold one
      The important reason why a S30 is continually sought is because of what comes with a S30
      Agreement to accept the result
      And agreement to discuss amicable separation and division of assets
      These are the reasons a S30 is so important

      If you don’t even know that ?
      You are stupid

      If you do know it
      You are a troublemaker and quite possibly a britnat

    14. Stoker says:

      Came across this twitter account earlier today so for those interested she has some interesting things to say on constitutional matters.

    15. terence callachan says:

      Colin Alexander…

      Right Colin , we know you disagree with SNP policy on Scottish independence referendum
      But hang on don’t you start all that misguided nonsense posted by Mist001 about why Scottish govt seek a S30

      You are better than that

      You know full well a S30 is sought because it’s the only way to have agreement to respect the result of a Scottish independence referendum and it’s the only way to agree on an amicable separation and fair division of assets and future meetings to arrange and plan rhe way forward

      S30 is the smart way
      NS keeps asking england to agree to it
      England keep kicking t down the road
      NS knows and has said that England can’t keep kicking it down the road forever
      Anyone with common sense knows that is true

      A quickie divorce without agreement on division of assets and responsibility and agreement on ownership will see the big bully boy win with force and ignorance

      You know that Colin

      Sit tight leave the experts to do the thinking

    16. Abulhaq says:

      A Labor party leadership hopeful hates the SNP and by implication all who support it. If an SNP official were to express hatred for an English party the Unionist media would scream racist.

    17. Juteman says:

      So, Scotland, you are a colony of England.
      Do you accept that, or do you fight?
      The Irish method is very difficult these days, as every word you pass online will be recorded. Cells will have to be very small, and work on word of mouth alone.
      Get in there.

    18. kapelmeister says:

      Murray’s logic is that the democratic process should be shut down in order to preserve democracy.

      With enemies like him, Boris Johnson doesn’t need friends.

    19. Mist001 says:

      Sturgeon has NEVER asked for a second referendum. That is clear to everyone including herself.

      What she HAS asked for is a section 30 order which as we all know, has been refused.

      Remember, she’s a lawyer, she knows what she’s doing and she knows damned well that she doesn’t have to ask for permission to hold a referendum. She has umpteen mandates. She also knows that by asking for a section 30 order which everybody and their dug beforehand knew would be refused, she makes herself look like the victim and Johnson/Westminster like the bad guys.

      She could write to Johnson if she so wished and tell him ‘By the way Bojo, we’re having a referendum next Thursday. You’re welcome to join us. Regards. Nicola.’

      But she won’t, and she never will.

      As I said previously, it’s disingenuous and deceitful lawyer double-speak from Sturgeon and the Scottish people, particularly independence supporters, are buying it!

    20. Mist001 says:

      @ terence callachan

      “Sit tight leave the experts to do the thinking”

      Funny you should say that because just a day or two before the last General Election, Craig Murray rather arrogantly told me a similar thing, and guess what?

      He was 100% WRONG in his thinking.

      I’m guessing you might consider him, like yourself, to be ‘experts’?

    21. Sarah says:

      Gordon Ross of IndyCar heard at the Inverness march on Saturday that there will be a referendum in 2020. That’s what I too thought was said by Ian Blackford.

      It won’t do any harm to email our MP/MSP to say we support this plan!

    22. Stoker says:

      According to the evidence on Stu’s twatter feed Wednesday is no longer happening, it’s now back to Friday before the FM will respond to Bozo. (Sigh!)

    23. Breeks says:

      Auld Rock says:
      27 January, 2020 at 2:11 pm

      ….. without an S30 any Referendum will not only be challenged in the courts by the yoons but will probably be boycotted….

      So? Let them challenge it. Let them challenge it in their own Supreme Court. It isn’t sovereign over Scotland or Scots Law. Joanna Cherry drove a steamroller over that bullshit when Boris Johnson had to unprorogue Westminster at the behest of Scotland’s Court of Session. A Section 30 Agreement is only drawn from Scotland Act Legislation drawn up by Westminster and pertaining to a Devolved Assembly. Don’t trust their shady improvised Legislation and sophistry, put your trust Scotland’s Sovereign Constitution.

      We are Scottish. We can hold any referendum we like under Scotland’s Constitution and Popular Sovereignty of the people, as it is the perfectly legitimate and Constitutionally sound route to harvesting the determination of a Sovereign People in order to instruct its Government. You know what? I bet Westminster won’t want that test of Constitutional legitimacy straying within 100 miles of a Constitutional Courtroom. Call their bluff, and put your faith in Scotland.

    24. Breeks says:

      Nicola isn’t making her speech on Wednesday until shows the details of what’s in it.

    25. Breeks says:

      I typed ‘she knows’ I promise… damned autocorrect.

    26. admiral says:

      Abulhaq says:
      27 January, 2020 at 2:30 pm
      A Labor party leadership hopeful hates the SNP and by implication all who support it. If an SNP official were to express hatred for an English party the Unionist media would scream racist.

      It barely rated a mention in the MSM. If, as you say, it was the other way about, it would be front page, howling, screeching headline news for days (continued on pages 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 and 8).

    27. schrodingers cat says:

      not sure why angus robertson carried out a poll without asking the indy question. while a poll showing 62% in favour of holyrood making the decision etc, is of interest, it doesnt set the heather alight.

      why? because if the result was support for yes at less than 40%, i might be convinced by stu, craig and others call to replace nicola ?

      but what if the next poll shows support for yes above 50%? where is your argument then?

      maybe there have been polls done and the results withheld? this may be a reason for the hate of the snp by whatsherface? it might also explain murrays ridiculous argument above?

      either way, the moment to see just what bojo being elected has now passed, the next red line date is friday. then the 31st june, then 31st dec. it is what the polls say which will decide the best step to take next. I would urge stu to carry out one next week to help gauge where we are. (terry kelly is doing his this week??) I know you have fallen out with terry kelly lately, but a promise to share results from both polls would help both of your sites

      im not sure why changing nicola or ian blackford is such a great idea. our options are limited and wont increase by chosing a new leader.

      so far, when you cut through the rhetoric spouted by many btl, it is possible to decern what our actual options are. eg, craig murray has produced several detailed plans of action, eg UDI. I dont dismiss any of his suggestions, why? because no one knows what the future will bring, eg what is boris planning? I just think there are other things we can do first. eg, calling UDI straight after a ge, without even knowing how that has affected support for yes, seems a tad impetuous.

      one area seldom discussed is the ROI. i would love to read a piece by endogan wright on whats happening, (ge 8 Feb 2020) and how the parties stand on a border poll for NI, and the chances of it being requested and what are the legal implications(vis a vis the GFA, the eu and the us) should the uk refuse it?

      do not underestimate what holding an irish referendum in eg may 2021 whould have in scotland!!

      in the interim period craig, maybe its time we lit the fiery cross, the yes bikers could carry it back to everywhere in scotland.

      horses are so last century 🙂

      wee history lesson

      “crann-tara”, translated as “fiery cross” or “cross of shame” was used to rally clan members to arms. The practice is described in the novels and poetry of Sir Walter Scott. A small burning cross or charred piece of wood would be carried from town to town. A widely known use was in 1745, during the Jacobite rising although it was used more recently in Canada, among Scottish settlers during the War of 1812, and among Clan Grant in 1820.In 1820, over 800 fighting men of Clan Grant were gathered, by the passing of the Fiery Cross, to come to the aid of their Clan Lord and his sister in the village of Elgin.

    28. Vestas says:

      ” Breeks says:
      27 January, 2020 at 2:50 pm

      Nicola isn’t making her speech on Wednesday until shows the details of what’s in it.”

      She isn’t making any speech on Wednesday, its Friday now.

      I wouldn’t hold your breath, it’ll be meaningless bullshit again.

    29. Almond Chutney says:

      RE: Fish Lady’s Speech

      With Alex Salmond’s trial looming, she would not want the front pages to set herself along with the news which will break following the trial, hence the delay – notice how she keeps the low profile when AS pieces are in, just too much for her to damage her already frail reputation.

    30. schrodingers cat says:

      seat projections

      jan20 polling 14 18 23

      Fine Gael 20 23 23
      Fainna Fail 32 25 26
      Sinn Fein 19 21 19

      fine gael look like losing and varakar out on his ear, perhaps even falling to 3rd overtaken by SF

      FF, manifesto = “An Ireland for all” (Éire do chách)
      We will establish within the Department
      of an Taoiseach a unit to lead a formal
      study and cross-community consultation
      on a Green Paper to outline how the Irish
      government should approach the handling of
      any unity referendum should circumstances
      arise where it can be called.

      sinn fein are already calling for a poll should no deal brexit arise. we will know this by 31st june 2020

      there is a very high possibility of a new ROI coalition of SF and FF on the 9th feb

      keep a close eye on this date

    31. Frazerio says:

      Question. The new Scottish football strip is up for its periodical redesign. Three designs are required. ‘Home’, ‘Away’ & ‘Change’. For the Home strip, everyone agrees on the traditional dark blue. For the ‘Away’, its decided a yellow design like usual too. But we cant decide on the 3rd Change strip. Should it be Red or Pink? The Scottish Government decide to hold a nationwide referendum to ask the public what they’d prefer. Should it be red or pink?

      Can anyone seriously tell me that Westminster could block this. That they could ignore the result? That the Scottish Government dont have the right to ask the people what they think on any issue they feel necessary? And that we dont have a simple democratic right to run things how the majority of us we blimmin well please. The EU referendum was only a consultation, not even legally binding like Indyref. And its result is about to become reality!!!

      Lets get on with asking the people what they think. Its just democracy and anyone who doesnt like that can wave their union flegs til their hearts are content.

    32. CameronB Brodie says:

      Contemporary British nationalism and dysfunctional constitutionalism, is an authoritarian form of cultural totalitarianism, simples. There’s ample international public law with which to be effective in fighting fascism. It just needs the correct frame-of-mind to use it.

      13 – The Legal Basis for the International Legal Personality of the Individual and the Question of its Independence from the State

    33. Breeks says:

      Serious question… why should we let this Labour Politician speak if won’t let us vote? Why should we get the bum deal?

    34. Mist001 says:

      So earlier today on the previous thread, I posted:

      “Mist001 says:
      27 January, 2020 at 11:43 am
      So, Wednesdays big announce ment will be about a ‘Scottish Visa’ to allow immigrants to enter freely into Scotland, thus bypassing the UKs post Brexit regulations but for me, here’s the catch. The immigrants would them be able to move and work freely throughout the UK.

      So, what’s the point of the UK Brexit regulations if they can just be bypassed so easily?

      It seems like a big stitch up with Scotgov and Westminster working hand in hand.”

      I then followed that post up with:

      “Mist001 says:
      27 January, 2020 at 11:46 am
      In fact, they ARE working hand in hand with Westminster because “The Scottish Government would want to work in partnership with the UK Government to deliver this additional ‘Scottish visa’.”

      Independence with the SNP??

      It’s not going to fucking happen folks. They’ve already accepted Brexit from the EU. You know, that Brexit from the EU that the SNP said they would never allow Scotland to be dragged out of.”

      And already they’ve had a reply from the Home Office, who say:

      “Home Office reject ScotGov plan for Scottish Visa and more devolved powers over migration. Dismissal comes a few hours after ScotGove published it’s 94 page report.

      A Home Office spokesman said ‘Immigration will remain a reserved matter.”

      Is nobody getting this yet? The SNP are simply playing games, saying stuff to appease the support and which they have no chance of realising.

      We’re being played BIG time.

    35. CameronB Brodie says:

      This should help folk understand how dysfunctional contemporary British constitutionalism is. Scotland must not acquiesce to Breixt, as to do so marks the death of social democracy in Britain. It legally ensures the supremacy and dominance of English cultural exceptionalism, i.e. English Torydum, as a national ideology and personality.

      Revisiting Questions of Organisationhood, Legal Personality and Membership in the OSCE: The Interplay Between Law, Politics and Practice

    36. jfngw says:

      Saw the Brexit celebratory 50p coin, it looks some meaningless shit quote from something like Star Trek. Maybe this is the planned celebration for the British Nationalists as they hit the Brexit red hour.

    37. SilverDarling says:

      It is our attitude to voting and referendums that in part is holding us hostage. Our disingenuous and dishonest campaign system that puts people off.

      An advisory referendum is more useful than an opinion poll, yet thousands of pounds are spent gauging opinions that everyone knows are a snapshot at best or designed to influence at worst.

      Could we get used to advisory referendums for many more big questions? Once they start to be seen as not a chore or ‘divisive’ or ‘once in a generation’ but as a tool to have your voice heard then when the big decisions come along we are informed and ready.

      We could prepare the way with groups of questions of general interest and importance:

      eg Should voting be made compulsory?
      Should the voting age be lowered to 16 for all national and local votes?

      Then bring in –

      Should Scotland be responsible for its own finances?
      Should Scotland regulate its own immigration?

      As these opinions build up then we have the mood of the nation – Independence by another name.

      Of course the cost is prohibitive as one offs but could they be latched on to local elections or the census? Is there another way to vote?

      When we register to vote we have a unique code to do so online, could voting in advisory referendums be done the same way?

      With regard to Wednesday/Friday what could the FM possibly say that could have any effect other than to call for an early Holyrood election with the constitutional question at the heart?

      Well it worked for Boris Johnston…

    38. Mist001 says:

      Funny, because something about an advisory referendum appeared on my FB feed:

    39. Breeks says:

      I don’t actually think we are being played, but I do think the SNP has made a massive strategic blunder, and I mean a real howler, in trying to oppose Brexit and turn it into pro Indy momentum while stuck inside the straightjacket of a limited and Devolved political Assembly, hemmed in on all sides by Westminster’s debilitating Scotland Act.

      Even the “Constitutional Experts” quoted last week weren’t addressing Scotland’s Sovereign Constitution but instead have been analysing the Scotland Act, Holyrood’s Constitution, to try to find a way to hold a referendum.

      All the SNP has done these last four years has looked at the bars of our cage and concluded, hmm those bars look tough but we might just about squeeze through them if we’re clever enough, having never stood back to recognise that the door to our cage was standing open all the time.

      Scotland’s Constitutional Sovereignty is the primary Constitution of our Nation, and it empowers US, as sovereign people to have a referendum every day of the week if we like, and gives the Constitutional right to unilaterally revoke any bilateral Treaty we care to, especially a Treaty which has been abused, breached and misrepresented continually by our so called bilateral “equal”.

      We don’t need to “win” any right to choose. It is our by sovereign birthright. The very words stink of Westminster’s attempted subjugation of our rights. Tell Boris to take his Scotland Act and Sewel Convention and wipe his royally devolved arse with them. He isn’t sovereign over Scotland and he never will be, and he can remind his queen of that wee golden nugget too.

    40. schrodingers cat says:

      Varadkar: EU will have upper hand in trade talks

      strange headline from the guardian since the polls show a FF/SF coalition winning, a very small push would see SF leading the coalition

      id die laughing if bojo had to negotiate with sf in the eu

    41. Lynne says:

      Here’s the Scottish Sun link archived. Most of us prefer not to give them traffic.

    42. ScotsCanuck says:

      schrodingers cat …. “terry kelly is doing his this week??” ….

      I think your referring to JAMES Kelly of ScotgoesPop

    43. Josef Ó Luain says:

      Why, oh why bother trumpeting a crucially pertinent statement for Wednesday, only to put-it-off until Friday? Is this a cunning SNP tactic, or is it just inept politicking? All shall be revealed on Friday … maybe.

    44. Boudicca says:

      Don’t forget the claim of right debate in the HOC chamber. Should be coming up,shortly, they are on a second reading for NHS bill, then one more question,then the COR debate. Speaker keeping a time limit so keep checking in.

    45. Mist001 says:

      @ Breeks

      So why isn’t anybody doing what you suggest?

      This is what I mean by saying we’re being played. It’s just a fucking game, throwing these things back and forward with no prospects of anything actually being achieved.

      What you’re suggesting SHOULD have been done a long time ago but instead, Sturgeon decides to go for things that she knows fine well are not achievable, as I’ve illustrated with my posts of today, the section 30 order and todays attempt at immigration control.

      Wednesday or Fridays announcement will just be more of the same to keep the supporters onside, keep themselves in poer and importantly, to keep the money coming in.

      There will be NO change as long as the Sturgeon/Murrell pair are running the show.

    46. Tony Little says:

      I always thought democracy was overrated!

      You couldn’t make it up

    47. schrodingers cat says:

      Breeks says:
      27 January, 2020 at 4:47 pm
      I don’t actually think we are being played, but I do think the SNP has made a massive strategic blunder, and I mean a real howler, in trying to oppose Brexit and turn it into pro Indy momentum while stuck inside the straightjacket of a limited and Devolved political Assembly, hemmed in on all sides by Westminster’s debilitating Scotland Act.


      i disagree, the only down side to us would have been if a peoples vote had actually happened, it didnt and now wont ever.

      same as calling for cu/sm access, it would have undermined the yes campaign but appealed to no voting remainers. you see, as leader, it isnt enough to appeal to the 45%, she needs to appeal to many many more.

      same as todays announcement about immigration, it isnt designed to appeal to you or I, (plenty racists in our movement actively oppose it, including english immigrants) No, it is designed to appeal to……… tada, immigrants. why? they make up a significant % of our population, many of whom voted no in 2014, but are the very people who are being worst hit by brexit.

      welcome to politics 101

      btw, i dont disagree with your comment about an indyref2 without a s30, all of it made moral and legal sense… but isnt that what nicola is doing? on wed the indyref2 bill will be voted on. and we still dont have a s30 agreement!

      thats exactly what salmond did, the s30 was agreed after the initial legislation was passed through holyrood

      we want an indyref2 with a s30, for obvious reasons but kicking off indyref2 on wed without one doesnt mean that there wont be one granted between now and the date of the referendum?

      so take heart, lets see what the polls say, who wins the irish elections, how the brexit negotiations go (badly for bojo) we could see border poll bill pass the irish dail on july the 1st. failure to grant stormont a s30 would scupper a us/uk trade deal.

      bojo winning the ge was the easy part. next comes the hard part

    48. Gary45% says:

      Who is this Ian Murray?
      Is he worth wasting oxygen reading up on?
      Or will I be better off, smacking my head against a wall?
      New Scotland top colour?
      They should just go for plain white with 3 lions on the chest, save them a lot of money in a new design. Or if it works out we have been taken for mugs regarding the EU result, maybe a yellow shirt with a giant chicken on it.
      Any fucker tries that in my street, I have a very large bass amp, “Ode To Joy” will be blasting as long as it takes to shut them up.

    49. schrodingers cat says:

      ScotsCanuck says:
      27 January, 2020 at 4:54 pm
      schrodingers cat …. “terry kelly is doing his this week??” ….

      I think your referring to JAMES Kelly of ScotgoesPop

      you are off course correct, apologies

    50. admiral says:

      Boudicca says:
      27 January, 2020 at 5:03 pm
      Don’t forget the claim of right debate in the HOC chamber. Should be coming up,shortly, they are on a second reading for NHS bill, then one more question,then the COR debate. Speaker keeping a time limit so keep checking in.

      I wonder how many Scottish MPs will get called to speak.

    51. Clapper57 says:

      Are we being BORED to death…is that the plan…yadda yadda yadda……I am so so so bored with this constant sheeite that I have no counter argument I want to make against this…it’s like….a strategic attempt to induce a feeling of NO hope, NO will to live (happily) and NO reason to care.

      And especially not care about their precious fantasy f***ing Union…..could they BE more boring and uninspiring….me thinks not because they are on repeat with same message and same messengers….Christ it should be us in the Indy movement who adopted the YAWN cause they bore the pants off me for sure.


      On a lighter note check out the Rev’s Twitter where Manky shirt has a video on… for humour it gets 10 out of 10 cause it’s kinda surreal and hypnotic in as much as you watch it , cannae believe it and then laugh out loud…then watch it again to experience the exact same process.

      Someone tweeted this about it :

      “Went from singing Rule Britannia to I Fought The Law in a few seconds”

      And that is spot on….though perhaps they stretched it by stating he was ‘singing’…it was a half hearted self conscious attempt at singing morphing into what is knows as Crap Rap…Lol

      God give me strength because we are being bombarded by all sides and they are so very very crap….if justice was alive and kicking this bunch of attention seeking political lightweights and random mentalists would be consigned to the ……Numpty file under Non Entities.

      I am at the stage of being past screaming…..past crying…So I only have laughter left…works for me…and thank God they oblige in giving me the opportunity to laugh … them….I know one should not laugh at those who are pathetic….but come on…. it is a welcome release and pretty much deserved…..Lol

      They may take away our lives…for now.
      But they’ll never take away our laughter..ever.

    52. Dr Jim says:

      I think it’s a mistake to believe that persuation and facts will convince NO voters, it won’t because most of those NO voters are the same as the ones in Northern Ireland and if they can see their cousins in the south doing better than them and still hold out there, Scotland will be no different

      At one time or another I’ve worked in every single social club, football club, orange club, bowling club, golf club, miners club, Labour club and venue in Scotland and I’ve done it most of my life, I know who they are and where they are and how they behave because while I was sober they were drinking, then you see and hear it, I’ve got a damn degree in it

      Some are noisy about their *values* some are secretive, some will even agree it’s all such a terrible a thing to your face then quietly vote against Scotland being free, they’re still there and most of them will not budge

      People will say oh we don’t have any of that in our area, well not to your face you don’t unless they know you’re one of them, but from the leafy lanes of pearl necklace Perthshire to the borders and east and west of our country they are stoic and staunch and immovable

      Until those people change their thinking nothing will change

      We hear politicians and ex politicians all the time banging on about how the SNP can’t convince NO voters because those politicians don’t want to admit the truth that Scotland is riddled with sectarianism and they put it here and Westminster depends upon it continuing to hold their Union of Scotland the free money cash line together

      Most of the English folk in Scotland will always vote against an Independent Scotland just out of sheer Loyalty of being English and there isn’t a damn thing anybody can do about that even though we know there are many English folk for the Independence of Scotland most of them will never be, so we get two sets of people voting against Scotland for different illogical reasons

      The youth of Scotland is the hope because more and more of them have no time for it, for the SNP to have gotten this far in a dozen years or so is practically a miracle and maybe because they know in order to pull this thing over the line we need the aforementioned closet bigots to come round to ditching their anxiety and see it’s not about what they think it’s about

      I don’t believe for a second the SNP are playing anybody it’s just a stupid idea altogether and nuisance mongering for the sake of it,or a complete lack of understanding of the behaviour of people and the situation, the SNP are stuck because the numbers keep sticking and they appear not to want to take the risk in case the proposition fails again, then the difficulty in proceeding after another failure would be enormous if possible at all

      Folk can disagree but why are the numbers for Independence not just as high as the opposition to Brexit,,, because Brexit was easier to oppose without compromising their core *values*

      Maybe once Northern Ireland does it, the Scottish branch will relent, who knows

    53. Dan says:

      Clapper57 says: at 5:40 pm

      Are we being BORED to death…

      No, not at all! Hic
      This week how about an attempt to quaff a beer from all 27 EU States.
      It’ll either be a celebration of Scotland’s continued EU membership, or a morning of our departation from da bloc, depending on whether a live or deid rabbit is pulled out of a hat on Friday.
      I’m not the biggest drinker so tbh haunners are more than welcome from other Wingers to see if it can be done.
      BTL lurkers may also be required to chip in and help oot to beat the Friday deadline.

      So far I’ve managed a a tipple from Ireland, Belgium, Spain, Czech Republic, and have just cracked open a German wan.

      Beers from the following need drunk, so crack on and cheers.

      Austria, Bulgaria, Croatia, Republic of Cyprus, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Greece, Hungary, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden.

    54. Clydebuilt says:

      Dr. Jim

      Aye NI departing the Union would help matters. Shifting NO voters our way will require them to experience suffering due to Brexit. It was always going to take some pain to change their vote.

    55. Colin Alexander says:

      The Edinburgh Agreement (EA) was a SEPARATE matter from the S30.

      There was no agreement that indy would happen by xxxx date in the EA.

      So the UK State could say “not now” forever.

      The Edinburgh Agreement had NO LEGAL STATUS. It was legally un-enforceable. A piece of political theatre for the viewers.

      No agreement on what would result from a yes vote eg. rUK and Scotland; Scotland and England; New Scotland and New England and no agreement on assets and debts. Those issues have never been settled despite the SNP being the biggest party in Holyrood since 2007.

      Despite what most people think, Alex was only the front man for indyref1.
      It was Nicola Sturgeon who was in charge of the backroom work: Indyref, s30, EA, are all Nicola’s babies. So, you can see why she is so keen on it. She wants a re-run of HER route to indy.

      Sadly, I believe her judgment is clouded by being too closely involved; it’s too personal for her.

      I don’t want UK indyref2; I think if it happened the UK State will again prevent a fair referendum. But I expect the SNP to deliver on the mandate, despite my personal antipathy for the indyref policy.

      The FM admitted she expected the s30 to be refused. I don’t believe the guff about s30 cannot be resisted etc. They’ve already refused it. It’s political rhetoric from the SNP to string things out.

      We were told the SNP won’t allow Scotland to be Brexited. I believe that was political rhetoric too. I don’t believe Mr Blackford believed what he was saying. He was making promises he must have known he/the SNP could not guarantee.

    56. ahundredthidiot says:

      Clydebuilt @6:21

      Hopefully all those departing Irish shores will look further South to settle. We really can do without them.

    57. Dan says:

      The Quickening continues in Scottish Waters.

      Sealander – There can be only one…

    58. Sarah says:

      But we don’t need the die-hard Noes to vote for indy. We had enough to win last time until the Vow was published and the media No overload, with Gordon Brown’s closed doors speech on a loop.

    59. Dan says:

      @Sarah at 6:55 pm

      IIRC if the younger demographic had turned out to vote in the same proportions as the older demographic did then that would have got Indy over the line in 2014.
      The younger ones being more inclined to vote YES would have countered the older ones being more inclined to vote NO.

      Think a lot of the younger ones are well up the curve now from the interactions I have with them.
      It’s a breath of fresh air to converse with younger open-minded people compared to propaganda contaminated spam heids.

    60. Republicofscotland says:

      This is interesting.

      “Just spotted statement via Scot Gov says “SNP leader” Nicola Sturgeon will give next-steps-to-IndyRef2 speech on Fri, not “First Minister”. Suggests it won’t be a gov event, so won’t be Bute House. Backdrop chosen for max impact, eg a community perceived at most risk of Brexit?”

    61. Breeks says:

      I don’t know. I just see what people say like pieces of a jigsaw, but there’s at least three different pictures they come from.

      Ian Blackford is citing Scottish Sovereignty when he says we won’t be removed from Europe, but that’s a different picture than the Scotland Act and Sewel, then there’s Joanna Cherry going to Europe which is again, Constitutionally based in Scots Law, but then she starts speculating on referendum negotiating its way through the Scotland Act…

      The whole Independence movement, SNP, YES, AUOB, bloggers, us… a Venn diagram of our Constitutional beliefs would look like chaos, and to me, that’s a big problem, and it’s the source of many divisive arguments and opinions. Very few of us are on the same page, and unfortunately I feel obliged to say that’s down to leadership.

      People go on about the SNP going on for 70 years, which I respect, but at the same time, after 70 years you’d think we’d know where the goals posts were. We only need to look at Brexit to see how easy it is for Westminster Tories to make capital out of our confusion. You don’t see the Unionists suffering any existential crises about their sovereign legitimacy, and their sovereign legitimacy is a crock of shite.

      I would be delighted if Nicola was to drop a Constitutional H bomb on Brexit at the end of the week, but I fear there is very little chance of it. I don’t buy the Sun Tsu bollocks about keeping your enemy guessing. Who bluffs when both players know you’re holding the Ace of Trump’s? Kinda telegraphs you don’t know how to play the game.

      We have four more days of open goal, then Scotland’s Constitutional Mandate to Fight Brexit on grounds of sovereignty disappears into the ether, and frankly I am incredulous that we will have squandered the opportunity and got absolutely nothing to show for it. And we have the gall to laugh at Brexiteers!

    62. Ottomanboi says:

      From failure to success.
      The bit about disillusion with the ‘home rule party’ has some contemporary resonance.

    63. TheBuchanLoony says:

      Josef Ó Luain @ 4:57 pm
      ‘Why, oh why bother trumpeting a crucially pertinent statement for Wednesday, only to put-it-off until Friday?’

      Its highly likely Bojo’s Huawei 5g decision would be announced in order to dominate Wednesday’s news and undermine Nicola’s announcement…she probably expected something like this and planned a backup to Friday.

    64. Jason Smoothpiece says:


      FBI state Prince Andrew fails to co operate with the enquiry into Jeffrey Epstein.

      Why would he fail to help the authorities with a criminal investigation?

      Odd business.

      Prince Andrew another benefit of being in the union.

    65. johnj says:

      Who are the ‘we’ in the “lets not facilitate the means when ‘we’ are principally against it?”

    66. Mist001 says:

      As some of you may already know, I currently live in France.

      I voted FOR Brexit.

      I knew I was potentially causing self harm to myself and my family but it was THE golden opportunity for Scottish independence. There would never be a better chance for gaining independence than with Brexit.

      As far as I’m concerned, I put the best interests of my country before myself. A sacrifice, if you will.

      So for the past three and a half years, I’ve watched the SNP fucking about chasing hopeless causes and watching Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP fighting to overturn the democratic result of a UK referendum when instead they should have spent that time fighting to overturn the democratic result of a Scottish referendum.

      Now I’m at the stage where I see it as a big game, a big scam. Sturgeon and the SNP don’t want independence. If they did, we would have it by now. Let’s face it, most of the posters on here have shown more initiative and ideas for gaining independence than the SNP ever have.

      It’s a big circle. The SNP make noises to get independence supporters fired up. This in turn keeps the money coming in and that in turn enables the SNP to mainatin its position in Holyrood where again, they make noises, get the supporters fired up, yada yada yada ad nauseum and the whole thing just keeps going round in one big circle.

      People say that I’m wrong to slag off Sturgeon, the SNP and that I must be a Britnat or a Yoon or whatever fucking name they come up with.

      The truth is that I’m none of these things. I’m simply an independence supporter who is absolutely FURIOUS at the ineptitude of Sturgeon and the SNP.

      And that’s tonights rant over.

    67. Golfnut says:

      @ Breeks.

      Misdirection maybe.

      @ Buchan Looney

      If you wanted to make sure there was no way back for Westminster, or even the EU, taking it to the wire might do it. EU I believe sign the Withdrawl agreement on Wednesday.

    68. Sarah says:

      @Dan at 7.04: are you agreeing with me that a vote must be held asap because we will win this time?

      I have been sure for ages that we will win despite the unchanging polls – the polls won’t change much until there is a date set. The talk from Angus Robertson and others in the SNP that we have to work on the No voters to convince them is unhelpful. We just need to get everyone registered and enthused to vote – no problem with the latter when it is a clear one-issue vote.

      Peat Worrier’s article in Sunday’s National says [I think – I haven’t got my copy yet] that risks must now be taken because otherwise more harm will be inflicted on us by Westminster. I agree.

    69. CameronB Brodie says:

      So you admit that you voted FOR Brexit knowing it would cause harm to Britain and Scotland in particular, without knowing if Scotland would be able to escape the catastrophe in government it represents. Yet you still want us to take your opinion as worth considering? Kindly take your nihilistic scepticism somewhere where the readership is more tolerant of counter-productive, morally bankrupt, pish.

    70. Liz g says:

      Any body know if the Claim of Right Debate has been cancelled?

    71. Lothianlad says:

      Just waiting to see the hoards of unionist politicians sturgeon cosied up to on the remain side now charging to help secure Scotlanda right to decide!
      Still waiting!!!!

    72. terence callachan says:

      Mist 001…7.33pm your rant…

      OK I will believe you
      I kinda get where you are coming from in voting FOR brexit thinking it would increase support for Scottish independence
      And it has

      But let me help you straighten out your thoughts about the SNP , NS , Scottish govt
      All three will do what they can to get Scottish independence although it ha to be said that the Scottish govt unlike SNP and NS have some people ( Labour Tory Lib Dem ) who are trying their best to prevent Scottish independence but those britnats are a minority in the Scottish govt.

      SNP and NS will achieve what they have promised 2020
      This is only January so they have another eleven months

    73. Mist001 says:

      Nope because it was obvious to a blind mans dug that Brexit could only help the independence cause, bring it at least one step closer to fruition. Now, I can’t be the only person to have voted Brexit for my reasons that I gave above but I can guarantee you that not one single one of us did it expecting it to cause harm to Scotland.

      Any harm that’s been caused to Scotland because of Brexit is purely down to the SNP spending the past three and a half years fucking about trying to overturn the democratic result of a UK referendum when instead they should have spent that time fighting to overturn the democratic result of a Scottish referendum.

      Fucking arseholes.

    74. Sarah says:

      @Liz g – Parlyapp twitter 10 hours ago gave it as the Adjournment debate after everything else. The NHS Funding bill is meant to stop at 10 p.m., followed by the Adjournment debate on Claim of Right.

    75. Mist001 says:

      And BTW, get that tattooed into the inside of your foreheads:

      The SNP spent three and a half years trying to overturn the democratic result of a UK referendum when instead they should have spent that time fighting to overturn the democratic result of a Scottish referendum.

      That will go down in the history books as one of the greatest political follies of all time.

    76. CameronB Brodie says:

      Your logic is morally indefensible mince and your pov unhelpful, IMHO. It certainly isn’t constructive, so just give us a break, eh? Its shite enough actually living in Scotland.

    77. North chiel says:

      Breeks @ 0711 pm . I recognise that you have passionately argued the “ Sovereignty issue” on this forum for a number of years . I also recognise that the major thrust of the “ Better together/ NO mandate in 2014 was for the U.K. to remain in the EU and that a “ yes” vote would ensure Scotland would leave the EU . ( How ironic ), and as a consequence the No vote in 2014 as of 31-1-20 has to be declared by our Parliament “ Null and void” . There is absolutely no doubt whatsoever that the 62 percent sovereign remain vote by the People of Scotland in 2016 will result in the complete & absolute breach of our sovereignty on Jan 31st. Consequently, after this date I would agree entirely with your long-standing sovereignty argument. Thereafter it is up to our current Holyrood & Westminster leaders to prosecute this sovereignty argument on ALL FRONTS ( including the “Crown in Scotland “ front , whereby “ the Queen of Scots” HAS to RECOGNISE the SOVEREIGNTY of the people of Scotland . As far as I am concerned now “ the gloves have to come off” re our Holyrood & Westminster leaders . After Jan 31st The “Sovereignty Issue “needs to be front & foremost” in our battle to regain our Independence . No more “ negotiations or requests” to the “ English” national government . I do hope that our leaders now realise that “ now’s the time & now’s the hour” . No more “ Mr nice guy” .

    78. Liz g says:

      Sarah @ 8.31
      Thanks hunny xxx

    79. Gary says:

      Those unionists who are pro Brexit forget that 2016 was a second referendum, albeit 40 years later. And Cameron ONLY put it in his manifesto becuase he KNEW he was going to lose the election. The election was won with a clever campaign of fearmongering against his jewish opponent. The Daily Mail liked to picture him struggling to eat a bacon butty with VERY knowing codewords in their ‘story’

      As ever Labour are there to facilitate the Tories, not fight against them. They forget their own founding principles when it suits them and ‘focus group’ whatever policy Middle England will go for instead of trying to persuade them to come to their point of view. Thus they are ever changing and without principle anymore.

      It’s as simple as this. Referendums are held by the government and the government takes a position to back one side, if they LOSE then they lose permanently, if the other side loses it only loses until another vote can be held and won. It has ALWAYS been that way. Many things which were considered sacrosanct by governments of yesteryear have been overturned by this and other actions and are now the ‘backbone’ of democracy. Women didn’t get the vote by asking nicely, they had to take direct action and force the government to act, otherwise women STILL wouldn’t have the vote.

      Scottish Independence is now very likely going to have to go a similar route. Democracy at every level has been denied, and that’s just for a vote on it, not Independence itself!

      There ARE still a few avenues to be explored first but it seems like it’s now a case of just ticking boxes to show you’ve tried every avenue before inevitably having to do something that the British State will consider to be outwith Scottish jurisdiction. It IS worth it to pursue this as I believe it to be key in getting international recognition. But PLEASE don’t think that because Brexit is next week that the EU will recognise us the next day, they won’t, not even after the transition period either. Whilst the UK is in danger economically now (especially with the Tories doing the negotiations) so is the EU (although to a lesser extent) The EU wants to show how difficult it is to leave and Scottish Independence may suit that point of view but they also need the trade with UK to prevent a shock to THEIR economy. They can spread this over the 27 nations which is something the UK can’t do, but they will obviously try to balance causing pain to the UK with minimising their own…

    80. Conservative and Unionist MP for West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine, Andrew Campbell Bowie, telling parliament how bad Scotland NHS cancer treatment target is (82%),

      up gets Labour MP Chris Bryant and tells him cancer treatment target in NHS England (75%) is worse than in NHS Scotland,

      `ah but but em a but SNP bad` says Bowie.

    81. terence callachan says:

      By-election results

      But wait
      Hang on !!

      Of ten thousand registered voters YES that’s right only ten thousand people in this constituency
      It’s tiny
      Only 3500 actually voted
      Two thirds voted for the Tories
      A third for SNP and the greens

      It’s close to England
      Lots of English people live there and vote for brexit and vote against Scottish independence
      Union Jacks everywhere

      Once Scotland is independent it’s places like this that we will cover in Scottish flags

    82. Dan says:

      @Sarah at 8:01 pm

      Because of various factors and where we are positioned right now, I think I’m gonna show some restraint and politely ask if you’ll let me answer that question next week once we have had an opportunity to process the way events play out.

      I agree that without a specific campaign and date for a vote (by whatever electoral process that may take), it just feels like treading water as far as campaigning goes and that is not a sustainable position in the long term.
      The constant can kicking with the inevitable attrition that it brings through fatigue and apathy is of course what established powers can do to a movement.
      Events outwith our control can overtake all the time and effort activists put in to getting folk onboard.
      Folk aren’t all political anoraks so herding cats comes to mind.

    83. Pacman says:

      Mist001 says: 27 January, 2020 at 8:37 pm

      The SNP spent three and a half years trying to overturn the democratic result of a UK referendum when instead they should have spent that time fighting to overturn the democratic result of a Scottish referendum.

      This is the 21st century. The UK has had devolution in it’s home nations for over 20 years. In one of those home nations with devolved power voted overwhelmingly against the UK referendum and the devolved parliament role’s is to represent the wishes of the people of Scotland. Therefore it has every right to try and overturn that referendum result or at least try to get compromises that suits the wishes of Scotland.

      Do keep up.

    84. Rm says:

      As you say three and a half years no further on there’s something wrong somewhere, thousands of folk marching organising events themselves everybody’s going to be gie disappointed if there’s not some kind of hope on Friday, but it’s looking more like a carve up day by day but again everybody lives in hope.

    85. Sarah says:

      @ Dan – sorry. I didn’t mean to put you on the spot! I realised too late that it looked that way but once you press Submit it’s unrecallable!!

    86. CameronB Brodie says:

      terence callachan
      I think you’ve stepped over the line of outright ethnic hostility there. I though you were someone I’d be happy to have a pint with. Do yourself and the movement a favour, by finding another way of expressing your political opposition to British nationalism. The cupboard of epistemic political crimes is choc full, so you’ll not be left wanting for choice.

    87. @Mist001,

      When in the last 3 years could we have had a referendum,

      our only chance was a coalition with Labour in 2017 but `Scottish` Labour`s Kezia Dugdale/Ian Murray f@cked that up when they advocated voting Tory to keep the SNP out.

    88. Robert Louis says:

      De pfeffle and his bunch of racist Tory thugs have just unilaterally re-written Scotland’s constitution, claiming Westminster and NOT the people of Scotland has sovereignty. He has denied a referendum, he has refused to even discuss brexit with the Scottish government. He is in a current process of undermining devolution. He is about to forcibly remove the EU citizenship from all Scots and drag Scotland out of the EU, wholly against its wishes.

      At what point, will the SNP leadership wake up and grasp the fact that being nice and talking about democracy doesn’t work with a thug like De pfeffle, the English prime minister.

      On Friday, when NS gives an update, it will either be more of the same tosh about winning mandates, yet again. Or she and the party’s leadership will grasp the issues, and actually take action on all fronts regarding the defence of Scotland.

      If it is the former, then she wil need to go, as I for one have had enough of this sh*te. This is the time for action. Having polite discussions ended a long time ago, and has zero effect. De pfeffle Johnson the English racist prime minster doesn’t care about mandates. He doesn’t care about democracy, and he certainly isn’t worried by another jolly nice letter begging for permission to hold a referendum.

      It is truly hard to put into words, just how angry I am about all of this. Nicola needs to stand up for Scotland, or move over and let somebody else do it.

    89. Dr Jim says:

      At this time of rememberance over the Holocaust and the sight of survivers gathering together to remember the atrocities carried out by an ideological government on specifically targeted ethnicities to exterminate them Scotland should in particular take note of Prime Minister Boris Johnson of England when he called the Scottish people, and that’s all the Scottish people “VERMIN”

      And no one said or did anything

    90. jfngw says:

      Looks like the BBC is getting on board with the lets abolish devolution, after all Mr Neil works pretty much exclusively for the BBC in this country and he is pushing some highly dubious tables as proof of devolution failure.

      To be honest I want rid of devolution too, the quicker we dispose of Westminster the better. As far as I’m concerned it should be on Friday, the day the sovereign people of Scotland are removed from the EU despite our overwhelming remain vote.

    91. Dan says:


      Nae bother. I’m sure we’ve all at some point submitted comments only to realise we’ve made typos, a grammatical faux pas or deux, or could have framed what we were trying to say better.
      The important thing is to at least try, and continue to communicate with each other regardless of our particular skills or knowledge level on various subjects.
      Everyday there is something to be learned from one another as we all live different lives and interact with different people.

      On that note I see a post on the last thread which is interesting and something I’ve long thought about.
      Namely that our politicians regularly come from similar backgrounds.
      Were there many politicians that came from more practical vocations?

    92. robertknight says:

      If you suspect you might not like the answer, ’tis best not to ask the question.

      I suspect that with the result possibly as tight as the Brexit referendum, neither side, Yes or No, are in a hurry to test their mettle in an IndyRef2 any time soon – neither side are yet prepared to bet the farm on the outcome.

      Could explain the apparent reluctance on the part of the SNP; a majority for Yes either doesn’t exist or isn’t yet sufficient for the SNP to employ the big legal/constitutional guns with a view to going All-In.

      To lose IndyRef2 by 2 or 3% would indeed kill off any chance of Indy for the foreseeable.

    93. NHS debate still going strong in the H. o C.
      Wonder if the Chamber will fill up with a load of Tories expressly to fix any vote – if there is one.

      Andrew Bowie at his most cringeing SNP/ SNHS appalling form; Not meeting targets, cancer figures no better, only achieving 82% of target.
      Got his bahookie skelped by Chris Bryant – hang on there, the English NHS is only achieving 75% so surely SNHS not that bad.
      Quick bit of back-pedalling and our Tory friend states that he is now agreeing with Dr. Philippa Whitford and Chris Bryant – who both look quizzically at each other – left him looking like the glaikit nyaff that he really is. Choice bit of debating.

    94. Sarah says:

      @ Dan. Thanks!

      About politicians, and who should they be, I too have long thought about this. Clearly, to my mind, no-one should be allowed to stand unless they have had a “real” job and/or a “real” upbringing i.e. not having just a comfortable background or private-school education, and a non-job such as working for a political party or a couple of years in the City of London.

      Also they must be checked to see if they are amoral, sociopathic, lacking in empathy. Currently those seem to be the necessary qualifications for a Tory MP!

    95. CameronB Brodie says:

      You need to copy the date stamp, if you want to link directly to comments.

    96. Dan says:

      Cheers Cam.
      I was multi-tasking 5 things at once, including trying to progress a way out of that fuckin shit TR7 engine problem from last week, but I’ll put that linking error down to my EU State beer tour. lol

    97. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Mist001 at 7:33 pm

      You opined,
      “Now I’m at the stage where I see it as a big game, a big scam. Sturgeon and the SNP don’t want independence. If they did, we would have it by now. Let’s face it, most of the posters on here have shown more initiative and ideas for gaining independence than the SNP ever have.”

      You’ve got the cart before the horse, iye?
      The SNP will not deliver independence. Independence will be delivered by Scots, when a majority of Scots demonstrate that they want it. That could be indyref2; could be a plebiscite election.

      But it’s up to us Scots to vote appropriately for what we want, when the time comes.

    98. House of commons has emptied – only the SNP left and a scattering of other MP’s. Not a full house from the SNP either.

    99. dakk says:

      Gary 45%
      ‘Any fucker tries that in my street, I have a very large bass amp, “Ode To Joy” will be blasting as long as it takes to shut them up.’

      Soundz good!

      They too have recorded big bongs to play a countdown on loudspeakers.

      There could even be some minor agro on Friday.

      Air raid/All Clear siren man said there was some pro EU guy Bray who he and Mark Francois might have to put in his box.

      Admitted feeling ‘triumphalist’ .

      We’re going back to war time ‘britin’.

    100. Parliament tv,

      Adjournment Debate: Claim of right for Scotland,Patricia Gibson MP

    101. Ms Gibson giving it laldy…

    102. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      So, the AYES have it.

      What does that actually mean?
      (RE: the adjournment debate.)

    103. Kangaroo says:

      Douglas Ross filibustering the debate. Yawn

    104. Colin Alexander says:

      Claim of Right Debate (recorded)

      Place is almost empty apart from about a dozen SNP MPs and about five Tory MPs such as David Mundell.

    105. iain mhor says:

      I posted this in the wrong thread in error…
      I dare say some would say Thank f** k leave it there! 🙂
      So apologies for repeating it but it belongs here…

      Sigh…another depressing and predictably inevitable example of doublethink and ‘not for viewers in Scotland’ Predictable in which doublethink politics it is rooted in certainly and predictable in the capitulation to the doublethink.

      On another note – in regarding complaints of the frustrating, painfully slooow, conservative and didactic approach to independence we are experiencing (Adhering to vague legalities, dotting i’s etc to the exclusion of all other dialogue and deferring to doublethink)
      I was pondering whether there is a fundamental disconnect issue with our politics and wondered if it was the lack of demographic representation – whether education, career experience, or possibly ideology.

      So, I thought to find a pattern and try and define it by way of an interesting (?) exercise: Because it is de rigeur to discuss the SNP, I use that political party as the example – others are available.
      The object is to find an SNP politician (Cabinet member, MP, MSP) who does NOT fall into one of the following categories

      The exclusion bingo list*:

      University educated
      Legal profession
      Finance profession
      Teaching profession
      Media profession
      Social or Voluntary profession

      I must state, this is not in any way meant to be derogatory; to belittle, deride or disparage anyone’s education or career – I am seeking to establish a Venn diagram for entry/exclusion from a political vocation

      I can possibly identify five candidates, perhaps more. The puzzle is: can we name 10 ? – I believe we have around 62 MSP’s and 47 MP’s. From a total of 109 we are looking for just under 10% – a dawdle? Fun for all the family nontheless

      *Yes there were reasons for the exclusion list, it was not arbitrary and no I’m not trawling through Lab/Libdem/Tory for comparison – someone else can try that if it so pleases you.

      (Sorry @Dan, Laudable as Dr Whitfords career is, she is indeed most definitely ‘University Educated’ – harder than it first appeared eh?)

    106. Colin Alexander says:

      Correction: Three Tory MPs

    107. Liz g says:

      I’m hearing that the UKIP leader in Scotland is telling the Heralds Tom Gordon….. Next step Abolish Holyrood….
      Anybody else hear it…

    108. manandboy says:

      As 20Indy20 gets closer, just watch the very worst come out of the Colonial English Ruling Class – and a few more besides.

      Starts for real on Fiday 11pm.

    109. CameronB Brodie says:

      iain mhor
      You’ve touched on a number of issues there that are all highly relevant to the performance and outlook of political institutions. Concepts such as habitus, social structuration, intersectioanlity and such. Institutions develop particular cultures over time, and these cultures can impair the objectivity and performance of these institutions. Institutions such as law, politics, academia, Westminster, Torydum, and the like.

      This is a very relevant concern with lots of available science explaining causal relationships and such. I’m heading back to Edinburgh, so my impute will tale-off sharply, but that might provide some valuable insight for me to look out.

      Understanding and Creating Compassionate Institutional Cultures and Practices

    110. CameronB Brodie says:


      Arguing over habitus: From class to nation

    111. Clapper57 says:

      I’ve had an epiphany…don’t worry it’s curable…but recurring.

      Anyways….true story…well I say story…more a passing moment while on holiday in Ireland.

      My husband and I…the non royal ‘we’…were driving around Ireland a couple of years ago and going from place to place..driving mostly through the countryside….

      Anyways…we passed a farm and there was a sign outside a farm that I thought said…due to ageing eyesight and a tendency to venture into dumbness…bordering on WTF.

      ” S*ite for sale”….I was taken aback…first thing that came to mind was…a financial venture generated to appeal to those in need of fertiliser…the real McCoy type….how enterprising and yet at the same time disgusting….from whence did it come from this ‘S*ite for sale’…as in animal….assumed this was local S*ite for local people…not fir us visitors…probably due to low demand for S*ite being required by visitors as in tourists when on holiday…anyway I digress….deliberately …to add to the suspense of a story whose ending may guarantee BIG disappointment and not worth the suspense….to those who have made it this far…possibly only, if even, single figures if any…Lol

      Soooooooooo after pondering on it a wee while I realised it MUST have actually said….

      ” SITE for sale”….

      Now pondering on this today for no reason other than I possess a wandering mind that tends to often ponder on past nonsense it occurred to me that THIS is exactly what the Unionists like Murray and other Britnats are offering Scots with the Union…

      Tis nothing but ” S*ite for sale” that they have to offer…that is ALL they have to offer Scots for remaining in their UKnotOK.

      There endeth….nothing….I know I said it was an epiphany but more a little analogy for comparison of a past misunderstanding and the situation Scotland currently finds itself in courtesy of BritNat uber alles domination…..the similarity of course is that they both stink…as does this little story….Lol

      If you made it to the end of the story…my apologies.

    112. Dan says:

      @iain mhor at 11.32pm

      Ach Iain, your rules are too strict!
      You’ve got to have an education of sorts and so many folk go to Uni these days compared to the olden days of apprenticeships or working in more practical vocations.
      Presumably that’s just a symptom of the demise of our industries, and the complexity of the technology used in the industries we have left.
      Plus, loads of folk don’t go on to work in the specific field their Uni course was about.

      In your study of politicians I wonder how many will appear in the Venn rings of those that know how to use tools such as: an optical time-domain reflectometer, an oscilloscope, a TIG welder, a CNC lathe or 5 axis milling machine, or a laser wheel alignment and suspension geometry machine to check both static and dynamic readings.

      Hmm, that’s maybe the issue actually, in that because of the constant evolution and complexity of technology and products needing built and maintained in our society, those that now work in the more practical vocations have actually become smarter than those “working” in fields previously thought to have been for the brightest and best.

      Had a conversation the other day where someone had said those that work in the food growing / farming industry are low skilled.
      Hmm, if it’s so easy then lets see them turn up and complete a single day’s shift in this weather of hard graft on our local community farm, and of course they’ll no doubt know all about specific plant germination, growing seasons, soil types, pest control, etc, coz all that is low skill level ya ken.

    113. manandboy says:

      THIS IS ENGLAND. An Evil Empire

      Treacherous, cruel and brutal. Fuelled by insatiable greed and a lust for power. Nothing’s changed.

      “It was said that the sun never set upon the British Empire, which stretched across North America, the Pacific, across Asia to Africa, and throughout the Atlantic, girdling the world under the Union Jack. The British Empire at its peak controlled 13,700,000 square miles, nearly a quarter of the land area on earth. It was the largest empire in history and despite the vast distances which separated its territories from the Colonial Office in England, it was dominated by the British Navy. Britain controlled the sea lanes of the world and with them access to the trading ports. This provided trading advantages enjoyed by British manufacturers and merchants.

      Over time, many of the nationals controlled by the British exhibited displeasure with British Colonial rule. Rebellions, uprisings, and outright revolution against British authority took place throughout the life of the empire, and with the outstanding exception of the thirteen American colonies were put down harshly. During many of these revolts, the British dealt with natives in terms which were often unbelievably cruel, rivalling the worst atrocities of the Romans before them, and the Nazis after.”

      From the start, the atrocities were covered up.

      “The British authorities, including Lord Kitchener on the scene and officials in the Foreign Office in London, were aware of the atrocities as they occurred and discussed the different methods which could be used to keep the British public from learning of it and expressing its outrage. The British dispatched Lord Milner to the scene to try to make the system less deadly and keep it as quiet as possible. One letter from Milner to British officials in London reads, “…however blameless we may be in the matter, we shall not be able to make anybody think so…”

      In 2012 the British Foreign Office admitted that thousands of records documenting atrocities committed by the British Army and colonial service were deliberately destroyed, and the records which remained were illegally kept hidden from the eyes of the media and the public.”

      “Here are just a few of the atrocities committed during the reign of the British Empire, known to history as the Pax Brittanica.”

      The Mau Mau Uprising and the Kikuyu: Kenya
      Famine in India
      The Destruction of Ventersburg: South Africa
      The Boer Concentration Camps: South Africa
      The Amritsar Massacre; India
      The Briggs Plan in Malaysia
      The Irish Potato Famine and Charles Trevelyan
      The Slave Trade
      The British Expedition in Tibet
      The Partition of India

      English atrocities in Scotland are not mentioned. Funny that.

    114. CameronB Brodie says:

      The cultural anthropology of the British empire is certainly scarred with many atrocities. To understand colonialism though, you need to understand it as a two-way process that impairs the psych of both oppressor and oppressed. Though in radically different ways for each side in the social divide.

      It should also be remembered that the harms caused by colonialism impacted both overseas and at home. British culture was shaped by colonialism, just as much as overseas. The legacy of colonialism’s many harms has still to be addtrssed in Britain, and Brexit makes the task a whole lot harder to achieve. If not impossible.

      Rules of thumb: British history and ‘imperial
      culture’ in nineteenth and twentieth-century

    115. CameronB Brodie says:

      And one for folk with a bit of time on their hands, and are looking for a deeper insight into the social reality of contemporary Britain. Only an abstract but tones of click-through links for those who are into that sort of thing. Nasty habit. 🙂

      Reconfiguring the Anthropology of Britain: Ethnographic,
      Theoretical and Interdisciplinary Perspectives

    116. CameronB Brodie says:

      Sorry, but folk apparently don’t click links. So here’s the abstract from one of the chapters you’d be missing. 😉

      Relocating the British subject: Ethnographic encounters with identity politics and nationalism during the 2014 Scottish independence referendum


      In this article, the author uses an ethnographic encounter in the aftermath of the 2014 Scottish independence referendum to explore questions of identity and nationalism in Scotland. During that encounter, he was confronted by his own, sometimes contradictory, thoughts and feelings about Britain, Britishness and Scotland.

      Taking inspiration from a genre of social scientific writing called ‘ethnographic memoir’, the article is his attempt to work through, and make sense of, those thoughts and feelings, by drawing on the work of both social anthropologists and sociologists who have written about identity, nationalism and legacies of empire in the UK.

      Following particularly the work of the social anthropologist Georgie Wemyss, who argues that contemporary discourses around ‘Britain’ legitimate what she calls ‘the invisible empire’, it is suggested that affirmations of Britain during the independence referendum helped empower an insidious, but largely taken for granted, discourse of imperial nationalism.

      This insight allows the author to locate the source of his own disenchantment with the identity label ‘British’. The article concludes with consideration of some of the wider implications this might have for a subdiscipline that calls itself the Anthropology of Britain.

      biography, British Empire, Britishness, ethnographic memoir, identity, nationalism, Scotland

    117. mr thms says:

      Please share with everyone you know

      “Explore the map to find out how life is across OECD regions and discover regions with similar well-being.

      Each region is measured in eleven topics important for well-being. The values of the indicators are expressed as a score between 0 and 10. A high score indicates better performance relative to the other regions.”

    118. Rocksie67 says:

      Not posted for a couple of years but just browsing through the comments thought I might add some of my thoughts .

      Firstly the Irish GE on the 9th of Feb might be interesting .Fianna Fail look set to be the largest party .Sinn Fein are polling well but most of their vote is younger and Sinn Fein in the south always have a problem getting their vote out on the day .They also don’t do well on vote transfers . Although the current leadership don’t have the same paramilitary baggage as Adams and McGuiness many older voters despise them because of the campaign of violence by the Provisional IRA .Political opponents often claim that the real leadership of Sinn Fein is still the “Army Council”.It hits home .
      Sinn Fein will at some point will form part of the Government ,its still this time .If they were to enter a coalition a red line for them is a commitment to request and hold a referendum on Irish Unity .If they dropped this commitment their vote would collapse especially in the North .

      Yes as been said it would be a real problem for Johnson as the Irish (are you watching Scotland) have real clout in Europe and with the Democratic Party in the USA .The Democrats control the House of Representatives Having to agree to a Unity poll in Ireland would certainly have a knock on effect in Scotland

      As for Scotland .Nicola is totally committed to Independence and its a total nonsense to suggest otherwise.Anyone who witnessed her hard work and total dedication to winning Govan and then Glasgow southside will testify to her belief in Independence.

      The strategy of opposing Brexit was obviously to convince soft Nos. Has it worked? I don’t know strangely there has been no polling since the election The mood music has changed since Johnson’s landslide and my hunch is that there has been a small shift to Yes too much anecdotal evidence of No’s switching but it won’t be massive Yes probably around 53%or 54%.

      Here lies the problem the higher Yes goes in the polls it’s even less likely that Johnson will agree a section 30 order.This Tory Government is of a different mindset from previous Westminster administration s . Already we can see their attitude to the SG is different . Johnson is hell bent on confrontation and showing who is boss .The Yoons are whooping it up and hammering the ungrateful Jocks who are living of “subsidies” from the English taxpayer goes down well with the English taxpayer..

      I have little doubt Johnson’s long term plans are to neuter then if possible scrap devolution .It’s war it really is and I don’t know if the SG have grasped that yet . Johnson ain’t a unifier he deliberately goes out his way to divide the country and then back the winning side .His problem in Scotland is that he has maxed out the Unionist vote and it is stuck at 25%.

      Unfortunately Nicola has a bigger problem she will look and weak and impotent if she fails to get a referendum .Not withstanding the fact that many Yessers will lose faith.Generally people won’t vote for weak and impotent governments
      She bas

    119. Al-Stuart says:

      Hi Stuart,

      You have spotted and highlight such an egregious offence against democracy that I believe the best way to legally dispose of the matter is to issue a petition for…


      Here in Scotland, we may be unfairly outnumbered in the southern Westminster Parliament by an inescapable and gerrymandered state of affairs. But as one of the politicians I most respect, Joanna Cherry, QC., MP., demonstrated in court, it is possible for Scots to use our legal process to move mountains. The recall of the U.K.Parliament after Boris Johnson lied to Queen Elizabeth 1st of Scotland being one such case.

      Ian Murray is no mountain; not even a molehill.

      We may not even raise enough signatures to require his recall as an MP.

      But given the power of your site Stuart, and your passion in democracy, surely a recall of Ian Murray as a miscreant who has evidently committed an act of malfeasance in public office by professing and confessing to the suppression of democracy MUST be something that is worth our while testing by creating the STATUTORY PETTITION. What utter joy to have this political toad removed from polluting democracy?.

      If nothing else, a Recall Petition would publically highlight the utter hypocrisy of this weasel.

      Though it is ALSO a fair bet that Murray might just get his jotters. The recall mechanism is certainly within reach.

      The Scottish media couldn’t ignore such an event.

      They would also be obliged to publish the reasons why Murray and his ilk are such an affront to democracy in Scotland.

      What do you reckon Stuart ?

      Is it worthwhile establishing a recall petition?

      More information here…

    120. Rocksie67 says:

      Sorry I posted that last comment by accident one more paragraph
      In my opinion at some point Nicola has to directly challenge Westminster authority I don’t know how or when though .On Friday she has to come up with something more than we will ask again even more nicely this time ..
      If she fails to sketch out a credible plan Johnson will see it as weakness and will move I for the kill humiliating her and Scotland even more .
      Friday I fear could be the most important speech Nicola has ever made she could ruin her career but also destroy any chance of Indy for the foreseeable and possible mark the start of the end for Devolution

    121. Robert Louis says:

      I see the Scotgov is planning on flying the EU flag in front of St.Andrews house, the Scottish government HQ, over the weekend.

      Given that their are at least four flag poles outside the building, they really should have one for the EU flag. It is a solid clear statement of intent.

      I fully expect the current Scotgov however, to fly the EU flag for the weekend, then put it away again. And THAT single fact, really demonstrates what a craven bunch of servile folk we have leading the Scottish government.

      How about for once, just doing something you believe in, regardless, instead of this servile attitude that seems rampant within the higher levels of the SNP.

      If England was being dragged out of the EU against its wishes, I can assure you, they would be doing a hell of a lot more than just defying convention and flying an EU flag.

      The Scotgov and SNP leadership really really need to get up to speed with the new order. The days of convention are long gone.

      As of Friday night Scotland enters a new phase in its hated, undemocratic relationship with its English colonial overlords. The time for nice chats and following convention have gone. The SNP leadership and Scotgov really, really, need to step up, and start acting solely in Scotland’s interests. England has shown nothing but contempt for Scotland and democracy, it is high time the Scotgov reciprocated.

    122. Robert Louis says:

      Al-Stuart at 407am,

      If it is possible, it would be a very good idea. At the very least, it might make Murray stop treating democracy and its founding principles with utter contempt. It would also focus attention on him and what he has said about Scotland, and his denials of their democratic rights.

    123. Willie says:

      I find it all so depressing.

      In Westminster we have and I hate to say it Feeble Forty Eight. With a super majority of 80% of Scottish MPs under that parliaments system our elected majority are totally emasculated.

      Meanwhile in Edinburgh and again I hate to say it we have an SNP Government who promised much but have delivered nothing.

      And in a few days despite a very clear majority of 63% of Scots voting to remain in the EU come this weekend we are out.

      What a servile bunch we are when we allow our democratically expressed wishes to be trampled under foot in a Unionism not all that dissimilar to Ulster where the Nationalist there were trampled underfoot.

      And with no expense having been spared fitting up charges against Alex Salmond to decapitate the return of a nationalist leader who took the independence movement so close, it’s not difficult to understand why it is time we used what we’ve got.

      Have the security services and agents of the British state compromised the SNP leadership. It certainly seems so. And you know what, the minority unionist parties in Scotland know it.

    124. Tatu3 says:

      My daughter is not university educated and finds it difficult to get a job without one these days. Even landlords (of the pubs and bars sort) want qualifications these days! No more just being pretty (she is) and being able to pull a pint anymore

    125. Golfnut says:

      @ Clapper 57.

      Best comment today.

    126. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      Makes sense @ Liz g says 27 January, 2020 at 11:59 pm

      The British Nationalist way is if you can’t win then change the rules.

      Same as attacking the messenger when they can’t win the argument.

      Devolution was imposed on the UK by the EU (despite what Labour will have you believe).

      Once out of the EU there’s nothing to stop the Neo-Fascist Tory Government at Westminster closing down Holyrood!

      The whole MSM ‘failing Scottish Public Services’ and ‘not getting on with the day job’ and ‘Scottish Parliament is a waste of taxpayers money’ narratives which are part of the framing of public opinion in advance

      Why else increase the Scottish Office personnel when devolution has reduced the work it has?

      They might wait to see if they can get a BritNat Majority in 2021 but I suspect they’ll shut it down sooner if they feel threatened or think they can get away with it (like if they say IndyRef2 before Holyrood 2021 is the SNP SG acting ’illegally’)!!

      I think it would be a major mistake if they did but don’t think that would stop them as Westminster can’t afford to lose Scottish natural resources.


    127. Dorothy Devine says:

      I have just visited the herald website for the first time in a very long time.

      The unionist comments are just idiotic ,illogical and ignorant.

      I would love to leave them there with no-one responding and the Herald would struggle even more.

    128. Breeks says:

      CameronB Brodie says:
      28 January, 2020 at 1:36 am
      The cultural anthropology of the British empire is certainly scarred with many atrocities. To understand colonialism though, you need to understand it as a two-way process that impairs the psych of both oppressor and oppressed. Though in radically different ways for each side in the social divide.

      Isn’t that the truth. But for me, the one atrocity which sickens me the most, perhaps because it was the epitome of perfidious evil, was handing out blankets to the Native Americans laced with smallpox virus.

      It is unclear and undocumented how prevalent the practice was, how often it occurred, and as one writer puts it, “… Letters by General Amherst and Colonel Bouquet mentioning spreading smallpox to Indians does not mean that this was ever carried out. Assumptions derived from letters and oral traditions are not proof of anything.”.

      But there was at least one documented case of it, and I find it impossible to reconcile the thin documentary evidence with the spread of disease having such a devastating and withering effect on the population of native peoples in both North and South America shortly after coming into contact with European Colonial expansion. “They had no resistance or immune system capable of coping with European diseases”. Did they, aye?

      As if it wasn’t bestial enough practice to slaughter buffalo by the million to eradicate their food source… but the carnage brought to wildlife was just the beginning…

      Pardon my provocative insensibility, but I wonder too whether the shock to discover it was Britain who invented Concentration Camps was the nature of the camp itself or the fact it was white Europeans which the British put into them. Tasmanian Aboriginals might have preferred imprisonment over genocide, although having seen pictures of chained up aboriginals, perhaps not.

      I think I do understand colonialism. It’s the sugar coating of history and the Orwellian manipulation of the truth which creates the contrived perceptions which assuage the guilt that I find loathsome. That’s another monstrosity all by itself. The Nazi’s had Goebbels. The UK has the BBC.

      Proud to be British? If I live to be 100, may I never be “proud” of anything, just satisfied that the right thing has been done. I recall watching the footage of German soldiers after the war being sat down and made to watch newsreels of Nazi atrocities. Not sure what I feel about that, because these German kids were surely not the ones responsible. Maybe these xenophobic anti-European BritNat exceptionalists need sat down and made to watch newsreels of small pox, slaughter of innocents and wilful starvation inflicted by the notorious Empire they would recreate. Dulce et decorum est…

      And a word of caution too… let’s not kid ourselves that Scotland’s hands are clean in these unspeakable things, but, thankfully, Scotland doesn’t seem to suffer this very British psychopathy of knowing neither guilt nor remorse. There is hope for the soul of Scotland… maybe.

    129. Dorothy Devine says:

      Aye Breeks , just so.

    130. Breeks says:

      How utterly pathetic.

      We are allowing ourselves to be “imprisoned” by these ignorant bellends? Really???

    131. Heart of Galloway says:

      Terence Callaghan@8.59pm

      You fucking piece of racist shit.

      You are only on this site for one reason – to bolster the notion that some independence “supporters” have it in for English folk.

      You know nothing of Galloway, my homeland. The Borders? Read a fucking map. Wigtown is 85 miles from the Border – the same as Glasgow.

      Covered in union jacks? Where’s your evidence for that nugget of knowledge? I know of one in the entire ward – a giant blot on the landscape in the garden of an Orange fanatic.

      The reason the SNP lost were because:

      (I) the carry over personal vote for the deceased Tory predecessor, who was well respected
      (ii) the new councillor is local, had a very well organized team (she is the partner of the sitting Tory MSP)
      (iii) the electorate is mostly elderly
      (iv) a high postal vote (
      v) a very low overall turnout (32%) because most folk of an SNP persuasion stayed at home.
      (vi) core unionist vote was highly motivated

      You are a fucking fraud and a liar Callaghan (or whoever you are). You should be allowed nowhere near this site.

      There were plenty of your type around Madrid in 1936. So fuck off with your false friend shite.

    132. Famous15 says:

      All these Labour candidates attacking the SNP record on public services in Scotland have a nerve.Labour is in power in Wales and Tories are in power in England and Scotland’s record is substantially better than both of them.

    133. Ottomanboi says:

      The independence movement ship is in the open sea but somebody seems to have stollen the power unit.
      We should not be in this ridiculous position. This is baaaad management.

    134. Almond Chutney says:

      Still it makes me wonder why the EU is gospel for an indy Scotland, The EU has done shit to protect any of the rights to remain part of the European community yet there is a sense of worship to the institution.

      Empty promises of the EU assuring Scotland’s place in a future Europe are debunked through the EU’s attitude to the Catalan separatist movement up until 2017.

      Also good to note that while Scots presumably are ‘standing with’ the people of Catalonia and their cause, my Spanish friend from Manresa (Catalonia) says that with the Spanish government previously affirming it would not block any future application from Scotland to rejoin the EU, it would be as if Scotland had taken the deceitful hand of Spain in blind ignorance to the Catalan cause to breakaway from the tyranny of the Imperial Spanish state.

    135. Gary45% says:

      The Empires dirty hands are all over the Palestinian situation.
      Which reminds me,
      29 November 2020
      International Day Of Solidarity With The Palestinian People (UN).
      Mark it in your diary.
      Although I am sure all mainstream media sources will broadcast the event, just as they have done with Holocaust Remembrance Day.
      Aye that will be f*cking right.

    136. mountain shadow says:

      Only 3 days until Nicola’s big announcement.

      I hope it’s more than just words.

    137. Ottomanboi says:

      @AlmondChutney 09:18
      The EU is just another capitalist brand. It was supposed to be a third force. It has its fair share of institutional corruption and tax dodging mechanisms via eg Luxembourg and Monaco and its foreign policy is rubbish. It needs a reformist, ideological makeover that distances it from the anglosaxon hegemony.
      Nevertheless, it is all that’s on offer, assuming it lasts.

    138. jfngw says:

      Poor Mr Murray, he probably thinks when his masters say ‘here comes the Jock’ it is a sign of affection. He has a high score on the Jockholme syndrome index, possibly vying for top spot with Andrew Neil. Also ran Willie Rennie (member of some sort of orange order) looking on in anguish wondering why he can never make it to the top of the table.

    139. Almond Chutney says:

      Ottomanboi says:
      28 January, 2020 at 9:52 am

      While I agree with that, it seems more of a ‘too many cooks around the couldron’ issue when it comes to the EU. Many warnings from leavers during the Brexit campaign of European reform included that of creating a single European state. There was much debate as to whether this was true or not, typical leave vs remain style, but the evidence presented was there in part (European Empire).

      If reform of Europe meant dissolution of independent states to become a fully fledged United States of Europe, then surely this is contradictory to every argument for the indy movement.

      Not saying will happen, but what influence will one country have over the entire bloc when it comes to reform, who knows what the future path will be?

    140. iain mhor says:

      @CBB 12:28pm

      I can’t say I took much from the first link, sorry. On ‘Habitus’, the second piece was verbose certainly, but didn’t put much flesh on the bones or was particularly illuminating. However, going to the source in Bourdieu, is certainly recommended and educational.

      As to the greater modern concept of a ‘Nation’ or ‘Nationhood’ as identity, we reach back to the last millennium and the turbulence across Europe; its fledgling states and its embryonic modern nations as the ultimate embodiement of the concept of ‘folc and folden’ – people and soil.
      The idea that those sharing a common homeland also shared common ancestry came to the fore in that period and also revisionist and venerable geneologies and history, in often risible attempts to claim legitimacy.

      Though the world had been no stranger to ‘Empires’; Regino of Prum, around 900AD, had defined a ‘Natio’ as people joined together by a single descent, custom, language and law and listed four distinctive features of ethnicity:
      genus (origin, race), mores (customs, behavior), lingua (language), and leges (law). These categories would be considered key nominal qualifiers for ethnic identity from the Carolingian period onwards (wiki)

      it was encumbent on any Kingdom, or rather the power and sword arm behind it, to have some proof of that legitimacy. The Franks imagined themselves Trojans, the Saxons descendents of Alexander the Great’s warriors and so forth. (Scotland would claim descent from Egypt and Scota)
      Invented geneologies and being the very scions of even the gods themselves, was certainly no new concept to ancient pagan kings, warriors and peoples since the dawn of time; but that the concept could be applied to nations, was a novelty – no less the concept of nationhood itself.

      Naturally, that novelty, those new nations, both bound and fractured disparate peoples – from insularity came security, but bred the mindset of regarding entire neighbouring nations and its peoples as ‘Other’ as ‘Foreign’, despite the very real ties and bonds of family and ancestry between them.
      Here, mercifully! I will end on that salient point, as it brings us bang up to date…

    141. Colin Alexander says:


      Patricia Gibson (North Ayrshire and Arran) (SNP)

      Tonight, I rise to remind the House that the claim of right for Scotland is a principle that recognises that the people of Scotland have the sovereign right to determine the form of government best suited to their needs.

      This right is well established; it was first set out in the Declaration of Arbroath in 1320 and was most recently endorsed by Parliament in the Commons in a debate in July 2018—a debate in which I was privileged and proud to speak.

      In Scotland, this House is not recognised as sovereign. The people of Scotland are sovereign,

      and they are angry that this House, this Government, are over-reaching themselves by trampling all over Scotland’s devolution settlement, with repeated and concerted attempts by Tory Members to shout down Scottish National party Members when we dare to speak up on behalf of Scotland.

      The debate tonight comes at a critical time for Scotland, with the UK on the cusp of withdrawing from the European Union—something which the people of Scotland rejected by a significant majority, but which is to be imposed upon them against their expressed democratic wish. However, if one accepts the European Union referendum result in England despite all the cheating and law breaking that we all know went on, because the democratic will of the people of Scotland is different from the democratic will of the people of England, then—too bad—Scotland is to be ignored, dismissed and dragged out of the European Union anyway.

      With the Westminster power grab and the lack of consent given to this disastrous Brexit by the Scottish Parliament, the devolution settlement has been trampled underfoot by this Government—so much for a so-called union of equals; so much for Scotland leading the UK, not leaving the UK. How can this be a union of equals when the democratically devolved legislatures in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland have all refused to consent to this Tory Government’s withdrawal agreement, which will damage our jobs, our prosperity and our relationships with our European partners? This Brexit, which may yet deliver a no-deal scenario, is to be forced on Scotland against her will, exposing for all to see the myth of the so-called union of equals.

      In the general election a few weeks ago, the Tories in Scotland unequivocally urged voters in Scotland to vote Tory to stop indyref2. We in the SNP stood firmly and proudly on a platform of saying no to Brexit and saying yes to the people of Scotland’s right to choose their own future. Scotland, by and large, did not vote Tory, but voted SNP in huge numbers. The SNP won 80% of the seats in Scotland, yet this Government still refuse to accept that the people of Scotland have made their choice—that they want Scotland to have the right to choose its own future because no one is better placed to make decisions for Scotland than the people who live in Scotland….

    142. Colin Alexander says:

      Patricia Gibson started so well, Claim of Right, Declaration of Arbroath, The people of Scotland are sovereign.

      If only she had copied some of Breeks, mine, Peter A Bell’s etc comments and ideas ABOUT asserting and practising sovereignty.

      Nae chance.

      As soon as the SNP mention sovereignty, they quickly shy away from it. Two or three sentences if you are lucky.

      As the SNP always do: It quickly reverted to the usual SNP pish: devolution and party politics, talking up the SNP and moaning about the Tories.

    143. Dr Jim says:

      You can’t have a referendum because it’s illegal they say

      It makes you wonder what kind a country you live in when a government can decree that asking a question is illegal, surely that’s the very reason you should be asking questions

      Nobody in the EU ever called me *Vermin* but the Prime Minister in England thinks it’s fine for him to do it, I don’t recognise that as *banter*

    144. Scozzie says:

      1707…bought and sold for English gold.
      2020…just plain robbed, robbed of our sovereignty, robbed of our assets and resources. Are we to be robbed of our self respect too? Jeez, where is our fight? What are the Scottish people waiting for?

      Watching this from afar seems like the Scottish people are sleepwalking waiting for a miracle statement to be forthcoming on Friday. It’s not going to happen.

      Get organised, only the people can make something happen. The SNP have proven they are not capable of delivering independence. It’s down to the people.

      Please make a stand on Friday get out on the streets across every major city. Show your opposition to being removed from the EU against our democratic will.

      If you don’t show your visible opposition to this it will be taken as quiet acceptance by not only WM but the EU – and see all your rights stripped away starting with asset stripping of our country through future trade deals.

      Forget SNP growing a pair – it’s time for the people to grow a pair.

    145. Liz g says:

      Almond Chutney @ 10.35
      The power to invoke Article 50…
      That’s the difference between the EU & the UK.

      There’s an Exit mechanism if the Union no longer work’s for any country, and all member’s have it..
      None of this pretendy permission from the bigger countries shit and threats a vote,a mandated vote mind ye,could be illegal!
      The EU could be checked from forming a state by the small countries invoking Article 50…. And they have a veto on removing article 50.
      That’s the world of difference between these two Unions.

    146. iain mhor says:

      @Dan 12:45am

      Yes, it is a bit strict, yes very many people do have University education, but is it 90%+ ? Does the makeup really reflect the demographic of the electorate in Scotland, is there some important bias – does it suggest a reason for the disconnect between the thinking, the methodology of approach to independence as exemplified by the growing unrest both here and BTL. Is there perhaps even a similar bias here we could attempt to qualify?

      There are surely as many highly qualified people whose education is at college level and certainly many without – but the category is there for good reason. It is to highlight the (possible) disparity in representation and to question what it is which lends the itself to a career in politics.

      What is the bar, self induced or imposed, which makes a political career the preserve of the categories I listed. @CBB hinted at the concept of ‘Habitus’ and is it perhaps a case that we are merely habituated to the perception that a political career is not the preserve of the plebs.

      If you did take time to trawl the biographies of our esteemed representatives (thanks, well done) I’m sure you must have come to the realisation, that in a very real sense, if one did not fall into one of those categories, one had a vanishingly small chance of being an SNP politician (or for any other party?) Frankly I couldn’t be arsed trawling all the rest for comparison, I only used the SNP as a topical example, not through bias or animus.

    147. Republicofscotland says:

      So the UK government dismissed the plans for a Scottish visa, without even reading the 94 page document put forward by the Scottish government.

      Make no mistake about it this Tory government led by Boris Johnson plans to go on ignoring Scots, and to continue on doing what he sees fit with Scotland and its resources to the detriment of the Scottish people.

    148. CameronB Brodie says:

      Almond Chutney
      From where I’m looking, your opinion appears to be purely based in prejudiced, as you clearly don’t understand the legal structure of the EU, and how that relates to national sovereignty. Euroscepticism is a structural feature of contemporary English/British nationalism, so what’s your game spreading BritrNat ideology? As if we didn’t already know you’re a fraud.

    149. manandboy says:

      This piece by Brendan McKee is indisputably among the very best on the Scottish Independence Referendum.
      Boris Johnson is wrong about Scottish independence

      The case for a Scottish Independence Referendum is rock solid, which therefore begs the question – just exactly what game is the Johnson/Cummings partnership playing.
      Or are they simply engaging in a never-ending ploy of putting Nicola off with excuses, each one designed to delay Independence further, as every day of delay is worth a day’s massive revenues passing from Scotland to England, beginning with 800,000 barrels of oil every day. And that really is only the start.

    150. CameronB Brodie says:

      iain mhor
      The first link was largely for the irony factor, given it came from Westminster Uni and related to creating caring institutional cultures. 😉

    151. admiral says:

      Republicofscotland says:
      28 January, 2020 at 11:29 am
      So the UK government dismissed the plans for a Scottish visa, without even reading the 94 page document put forward by the Scottish government.

      Meanwhile, continuing to screech and squawk about “stop going on about independence, get back to the day job, blah, blah, blah” whilst totally ignoring anything to do with the day job and refusing to engage at all.

    152. Almond Chutney says:

      To be honest, in the UK union of so called ‘equals’ it’s not as if it is entirely one sided, just a couple examples for each home nation.

      Scotland & NI were ignored in their wishes to remain in the EU.
      Wales is repeatedly ignored as the devolved assembly is not enough devolution and powers held in Wales are not akin to the of the Scottish Parliament, merely just as an assembly. (Think England & Wales) always grouped together with laws and policies and shit.

      Lastly, perhaps England was ignored in the devolution settlement agreement agreed by referendum results of people of NI, Wales and Scotland. I’m not sure whether to view this as England = Westminster = Sovereign on the hierarchy of the UK, or England just conveniently comes directly under Westminster rule, the so called EVEL apparently having no effect, just to block devolved ministers from voting on English only issues.

      Which makes me think, if England, like Welsh, Scots and NI had it’s own devolved assembly outside of Westminster, would it work to a more fair, progressive union of equals? (with WM sitting at the top with the usual austerity from a tory government?) But none the less as it isn’t the case, there’s no room to reform in such a way.

      Still, glad that I don’t have to pay for NHS prescriptions, Dentistry and such unprecedented higher university tuition fees than the poor Saes next door – maybe one of the reasons of their likeness of ill-will towards us.

    153. Scozzie says:

      Am I missing something here…
      posts about Ian Murray – who gives a f**k what he thinks.
      Politicians’ previous careers.
      Uni education.
      NHS HoC debate.
      Claim of Right adjournment debate (ps adjournment debates have no bearing whatsoever on parliament – think of them as nothing more than gap fillers in parliament)
      yada yada yada…

      Is no-one noticing that Scotland is being ripped out of the EU in 3 days? Are you all dancing round the most important subject for a reason?

      Apologies if I’ve missed all the posts on real discussion on what the sovereign Scots might do to show our strength as a sovereign nation.

    154. Almond Chutney says:

      CameronB Brodie says:
      28 January, 2020 at 11:33 am

      Triggered much? Every comment I see from you is full of sourness. Clearly you’re just a very sour individual that spends 24hrs a day on Wings looking to scrutinize each comment on every post.

      Maybe get a life, or lighten up a little it might do you some good.

    155. CameronB Brodie says:

      Almond Chutney
      I’m aware the EU has its own challenges in establishing its’ democratic credentials, but they haven’t been screwing Scotland over for over 300 years. Got any evidence to support your assertions re. the EU, or are you happy to simply recant your position?

    156. Republicofscotland says:

      Giving Alex Rowley a bit of credit on his new found stance on Scots being allowed to vote in a referendum on their future is a good thing.

      I also gave Rowley credit for gently chiding Thornberry on her crass remark, however I then find out Rowleys daughter Danielle is Emily Thornberry’s campaign manager.

      Still good to see Alex soeaking out on such matters.

    157. CameronB Brodie says:

      Almond Chutney
      Thing is, I have a fair understand of politics, which is why I may be a bit hostile towards contemporary British nationalism, which is essentially a fascistic for of English nationalism. That not enough treason for me to be angry?

    158. CameronB Brodie says:

      I’m not that angry folk, just not got my glasses and I’m prone to rushing responses. Not because I don’t consider issues before responding. Remember, I studied this very situation in some detail when at uni.

    159. Almond Chutney says:

      Liz g says:
      28 January, 2020 at 11:23 am
      Almond Chutney @ 10.35
      The power to invoke Article 50…
      That’s the difference between the EU & the UK.

      I’m with you on that one, could be a lot more opportunity to allow willful secession with basic requirements that can be agreed from each constituent country.

      Still, at least we don’t have a USA or Spanish like union where to even propose the idea of separation is illegal. See examples of California/Texas and Catalonia/Basque.

      There is no clause in the US constitution which allows any state to leave, even if the majority were in favour for it, it is just not possible.

      Then there comes Spain with a clause in their constituition for ‘indissoluble unity of the Spanish Nation’ which is designed to protect and enrich a unity of spaniards, despite not all of them calling themselves ‘spaniards’.

      Again all under the EU’s are of influence, so if it would support to allow secession of states within it’s bloc, then what about states within states within its bloc? Clearly they don’t care.

    160. Dr Jim says:

      You think Scotland has problems?

      Every 19 seconds in England a request is made for mental heath assistance…..Sky News!

    161. CameronB Brodie says:

      Almond Chutney
      The EU operates under legal constraints. They can only communicate their support for Scotland, or lack of, in very limited ways. Why not support the indy cause with some positive insights, rather than sowing anti-EU prejudice that is a characteristic of contemporary English/British nationalism. You do know which team we support here?

    162. Breeks says:

      ain mhor says:
      28 January, 2020 at 10:54 am
      @CBB 12:28pm

      I have often been intrigued by the Declaration of Arbroath….

      ….They journeyed from Greater Scythia (Southern Russia / Ukraine), by way of the Tyrrhenian Sea and the Pillars of Hercules, and dwelt for a long course of time in Spain among the most savage tribes, but nowhere could they be subdued by any race, however barbarous.

      Thence they came, twelve hundred years after the people of Israel crossed the Red Sea, to their home in the west where they still live today.

      The Britons they first drove out, the Picts they utterly destroyed, and, even though very often assailed by the Norwegians, the Danes and the English, they took possession of that home with many victories and untold efforts; and, as the historians of old time bear witness, they have held it free of all bondage ever since.

      In their kingdom there have reigned one hundred and thirteen kings of their own royal stock, the line unbroken a single foreigner…

      As far as I know, the Picts weren’t physically wiped out at all as modern DNA somewhat proves, but it’s still a curious thing to say. Was it perhaps a Pictish ruling bloodline or dynasty destroyed? Or a societal framework broken up?

      One hundred and thirteen Kings, and unbroken lineage to me suggests there were records being kept. Perhaps part of that wealth of information lost at sea when Edward 1 stole Scotland’s records.

      How many years does the reign of 113 kings actually span? Counting backwards from 1320… 400 years? 500 years? Perfectly plausible. A wee bit more and you’re back to the 8th, 9th Century when the Picts and Scots came together under Kenneth MacAlpine, a Pictish King and first King of Scots 810-858, and nicknamed “Conqueror”. Within two years, Viking raids on Pictish land ceased.

      1,150 years of Scotland “as” Scotland, the Nation we know today, which codified the Sovereignty of it’s people above it’s monarch in 1320.

      This is the Scotland that some obnoxious Eton gobshite would deny a humble referendum? This is the Scotland that would let him away with it??? And all of this is the Scottish history that the British Ministry of Truth would erase?

      Speech of your political career on Friday Nicola. Don’t you dare put Scotland back in it’s box. Tear the fucking lid off that box.

    163. CameronB Brodie says:

      Almond Chutney
      Your lack of response to my request for evidence, speaks volumes. I think you need to work on your technique a bit more, as you clearly mistake performative identities for real identities.

      Full text.

      The Cultural Psychology of Oppression and Liberation

    164. CameronB Brodie says:

      Here’s one for anyone interested in human AGENCY. Mkay?

      Full text.

      A Cultural Psychology of Agency: Morality, Motivation, and Reciprocit

    165. CameronB Brodie says:

      I really wasn’t bullshitting when I suggested I know a bit about overcoming structurally produced cultral oppression. Like what Scotland is currently experiencing big time.

      Full text.

      Beyond Adaptation: Decolonizing Approaches to Coping With Oppression

    166. iain mhor says:

      @CBB 11:36am

      Aye, I thought that very thing, very droll!

      I admit I don’t often follow your links, the odd one which may catch my eye, and usually because you had articulated the concept and relevance first – but I did eventually get to the other post and Bourdieu’s concept of Habitus, which was interesting.

      It would be perhaps, more to benefit and engage others, if you did post more of your own synopsis and thoughts about the many concepts you deliver, initially, rather than blanket references – often I feel without context.
      Time is short and on days when there are many engaging posts, there is a tendency (myself) to skip past your links, rather than do the work of leaving the site to find out whether they are interesting, or have any relevence to me.

      In the case of Bourdieu, it wasn’t the article you linked which was interesting, it was in the brief reference to him within it which led me to his work – so buried third hand if you will.
      Anyway, I got there, so thanks.

    167. Ottomanboi says:

      A U.S.E. Is touted by the petits fonctionaires and the little napoleons that appear to thrive in the Brussels apparatus but I suspect that the various nationalisms within the system give that notion little traction.
      Now that the British State, whose particular brand of privateering capitalism was indulged even lauded while a member has quit, the original default may be restored.
      The founders envisaged an integrated Europe as a bulwark against US/UK type capitalism and Russia. Now we have Chinese state capitalism to add to that, a system as predatory as the American and British systems at the height of their respective powers.
      I do not believe the rBritish State wants an independent and successful Scotland. Its rulers would rather have a failed state that might, in time, be re-absorbed. The proprietorial attitude of ex chancellor Osborne re the £sterling displayed that view in all its colonial glory.
      The EU, although far from perfect, it is not the fat rat infested hulk Britannia whose decay no amount of City buccaneer hype can disguise.

    168. Clapper57 says:

      IF you have the misfortune to get one of the new 50p Brexit coins then can I suggest you save them up in a jar and give them to a worthy cause…if you can afford to.

      Charity you support
      Scottish Independence campaign…..forthcoming
      Or Both

      Pass it round on Twitter…if we can get thousands of people to go on marches then imagine how much we could accumulate….financially….

      Also , and this is big plus…would piss off the uber Unionists that their party of choice…indeed even the very party themselves that generated , via the introduction of this fake ‘token’ of celebration, was being used as a financial means to help fund the next Indy campaign…should that be the choice you make to support in saving up this sheeite addition to Tory Brexit TOKENism…..


    169. CameronB Brodie says:

      iain mhor
      I appreaciate where your coming from, but I want keep to things real and I’m very rusty. I’d hate to take up more space than I already do, and I defiantly don’t want to fill posts with screeds of misleading mince. I am trying to be a bit more expansive with my introductions, but the real meat of my posts is the knowledge contained in the links.

      I appreciate most folk don’t have the time and possibly the academic skills, or interest. Some will dip their toe though, and start communicating about the world in new ways. That’s how community education works, or supposed to anyway. I’m not sure about Scotland though, as everyone thinks they’re an expert. 😉


      Thus, in a society in which the obtaining of social privileges depends more and more closely on possession of academic credentials , the School does not only have the function of ensuring discreet succession to a bourgeois estate which can no longer be transmitted directly and openly.

      This privileged instrument of the bourgeois sociodicy which confers on the privileged the supreme privilege of not seeing themselves as privileged manages the more easily to convince the disinherited that they owe their scholastic and social destiny to their lack of gifts or merits, because in matters of culture absolute dispossession excludes awareness of being dispossessed. Bourdieu and Passeron (1977 [1970]: 210)

    170. Pete says:

      Almond Chutney
      Totally agree with you about the EU.
      Most of the EU fanatics on here are that wat purely because the UK was struggling to leave after a democratic referendum.
      ‘My enemies enemy is my friend’
      I think that sums it up fairly well.
      The EU is a failing organisation with an ever diminishing influence in the world.
      The eurozone is a disaster for the southern states with the currency being too strong but brilliant for Germany which has screwed every other country.
      Just glad the UK is finally leaving.

    171. Clapper57 says:

      @ Pete @ 1.03pm

      Hello Pete…not seen you on here for wee while…How you doin ?

      Have to say I disagree, with respect as always, as I am NOT glad the UKnotOK is leaving….

      So we can both agree to disagree….or can we…Lol

      Have a good day

    172. CameronB Brodie says:

      EU membership does not inevitably lead to the Eurozone. Away with your ignorant, right-wing, prejudice.

    173. CameronB Brodie says:

      If you are poor, then you are your own worst enemy in believing Eurosceptic propaganda, which admittedly does fill the media. If you are privileged, then you lack human compassion and morality.

      Full text.

      Education, inequality and social justice: A critical analysis applying the Sen-Bourdieu Analytical Framework

    174. Dr Jim says:

      *We* need to roll out facial recognition across the country so *we* can keep *London* safe, Tobias Ellwood Tory MP

      Facial recognition technology has resulted so far in 93% arrests of the wrong people

      The BBC says re the Hauwei 5G deal “Just when *we* have taken back control of our sovereignty from the EU *we’re* handing it to China

      America says it will be very difficult to strike any trade deal with the UK if they go ahead with Hauwei deal

      BBC Politics UK: Let’s get someone from the SNP on so we can ignore them

    175. Ottomanboi says:

      There is but one history and it is that of the English speaking ‘race’. From the Caribbean through India, Hong Kong to New Zealand the monarchs of England, Magna Carta and the imperial story of greatness tempered with lashings of fair-play was the daily bread. And it still resonates.
      Scotland, never mind Wales or Ireland, hardly got a look in except as hand maiden and receiver of condescending largesse.
      That’s the way, in my experience, surprisingly many still see the best order of things. I smell it in the Brexit wind,
      The civilizing mission was essentially, “you had no proper history until we deigned to write one for you”….guess who gets the starring rôles?

    176. Dr Jim says:

      Unionists across Scotland *pure ragin* as STV survey shows ScotRail satisfaction levels higher than anywhere in the rest of the UK at 9 out of 10 passenger satisfaction rates

      Proving once again the pettiness of Unionists that they want Scotland to fail

    177. Clapper57 says:

      @ Golfnut @ 7.18am


      Hi Golfnut…..did you make it to the end ????

      Think many others would disagree with you on this …Lol

      Have a good day

    178. Colin Alexander says:

      If Scotland is sovereign, so has the sovereign right to self-determination, best form of govt etc.

      Why is “indyref” or indy v the current 1707 Union, the only sovereign choices; an all or nothing choice, and the only choice according to the SNP?

      If we are sovereign, what’s to stop us revoking GB Parliament as the Union Parliament?

      What’s to stop us, as sovereign, insisting the Union is revised so there are TWO parliaments exercising sovereign power: one for Scotland and one for rUK / England?

      Answer: Nothing, if the will is there.

      We don’t yet have the mandate for full indy but, we do have other mandates that are being blocked by the Union Parliament.

      Eg, Remain in the EU and what is devolved should not be power-grabbed back to WM etc

      Those mandates should be exercised by the SNP via a Parliament of Scotland, a Supreme Parliament exercising Scottish sovereignty.

      The s30 “Independence” referendum is nothing but Russian roulette, where the UK holds the gun.
      We can see the results of the first bullet. Nicola wants to play it again with Scotland as the winner or the victim.

      What is the independence the SNP were offering anyway in 2014 and now? A parliament exercising sovereign power; little more than that. But that is a huge thing.

      But, We don’t need indy first to do that. We can use the same sovereign power that gives us the right to hold an indyref to reconvene a Supreme Parliament for Scotland. But, if we reconvene a Supreme Parliament first the UK won’t want a Union of parliamentary equals.

      The Supreme Parliament can hold as many constitutional indyrefs as it likes or dissolve the Union if the rUK won’t accept the revised Union.

    179. Liz g says:

      Almond Chutney @ 11.50
      Scotland voted in a mandate to hold a vote to see if the people still want to stay in the UK Union.
      Westminster says No…
      And you see this as an opportunity to negotiate a withdrawal mechanism for the four constituent countries.
      That makes no sense..
      To do so would mean
      Westminster would need to end it’s right to make or unmake any law,good luck with that.
      Secondly. Westminster can’t bind future parliaments,it’s forbidden to do so.
      And lastly.
      The current Treaty of Union would need to be struck down…. Why on earth would we sign another one?
      How daft do you think we are?

    180. admiral says:

      Dr Jim says:
      28 January, 2020 at 1:31 pm
      Unionists across Scotland *pure ragin* as STV survey shows ScotRail satisfaction levels higher than anywhere in the rest of the UK at 9 out of 10 passenger satisfaction rates
      Proving once again the pettiness of Unionists that they want Scotland to fail

      Dr Jim, I’m in my mid 60s and it still astounds me that the Yoons’ entire prospectus is based on “Scotland is rubbish, Scots are rubbish, everything about you is rubbish, so STFU and do what Westminster tells you”. It’s been this way for decades.

    181. Ottomanboi says:

      Face recog.. Is used to control ethnic minorities, recently in use in East Turkistan/Xinjiang, within China and probably the majority Han population also.
      The British State has visual street monitoring of citizens on a scale unusual in a self-styled democracy. Effectively such a system treats all as (potentially) guilty.
      Social media are likewise a choice means of tracking the ‘delinquent’.

    182. Clapper57 says:

      @ Dr Jim @ 1.31pm

      Hi Dr Jim, me thinks STV will be “pure ragin” too…as their ‘survey’…backfired….the constant sniff sniff sniffing about to substantiate the Tory mantra of #SNPBAD on domestic issues…it has become beyond a joke….though NOT beyond parody when we look at the output that ‘Scotland’ Tonight put on…I say ‘Scotland’ Tonight but nine times out of ten it is more UK Tonight and any Scottish content only introduced when it can try and display how sheeite we are as a country…though in their eyes we are more of a C*ntry…full of Indy C*nts.

      C*ntry Tonight….more honest of them to rename it thus and STILL have Tom Harris on speed dial to prove it…Lol

    183. Sarah says:

      @ Al-stuart at 4.07 re Recall of MPs Act procedure against Ian Murray.

      I looked at that recently as I had the same thought about Johnson – surely the unlawful attempt at prorogation; the irresponsible behaviour as Foreign Secretary [singing an unsuitable song at some foreign government’s event; the Ratcliffe case]; helping Darius Guppy’s attempt to have a journalist beaten up – all these would be enough to get Johnson suspended by the House for 10-14 days?

      The grounds on which the Recall Act can be used are very narrow – either a criminal conviction with a year’s imprisonment or report by the Parliamentary Standards committee that results in the 10 or 14 day suspension from the House. I think those are the only grounds. Remember Ross Thomson got away with his behaviour and that was blatant.

      But definitely worth a try in every single case – to reduce the majority and to create publicity.

    184. manandboy says:

      Friday and Saturday, is time to drive about or walkabout with an EU flag or Saltire.

      The days of brainwashed bowing docilely before our Despotic Genocidal Imperial Masters are over.

      Do it. For Scotland. It will make you feel PROUD to have done it.

      I’ll be heading for a bridge over the M8 on Saturday for an hour or two. The bridge at the Dakota Hotel is good. The feedback from the traffic is great, and reflects I think, extremely well the support for Independence.

    185. CameronB Brodie says:

      I’m just getting into my stride now peeps. Sorry it’s taken me so long to link distant recollections of contemporary, post-modern, critical social theory, with contemporary practice in social science. Not that I’m suggesting I know it all, at all. 😉

      Bourdieu and the Big Society: empowering the
      powerful in public service provision?

      There is concern that the ‘localism’ promoted by the UK Coalition Government will further empower the already powerful. This paper uses Bourdieu’s theory of practice to theorise middle-class public service use. Building on a previous evidence review (Matthews and Hastings, 2013) it considers whether the habitus of the middle-classes enables them to gain disproportionate benefit from public services.

      Service provision is understood as a ‘field’ marked by a competitive struggle between social agents who embody class-based power asymmetries. It finds that engagement with the state is a classed practice producing benefits to those already empowered and that localism may exacerbate inequalities.

      key words
      Bourdieu • social class • community empowerment • localism

    186. Golfnut says:

      @ Clapper 57

      Only if the humour gene was missing, and yes I did get to the end.

    187. schrodingers cat says:

      Kenneth MacAlpine, a Pictish King and first King of Scots 810-858

      he was only ever termed rex pictorum

      “king of Alba” is not used until the time of Kenneth’s grandsons, Donald II died 900ce

      the kingdom of alba spent the next 100 years fighting with the kingdom of fortrenn (moray/murray) until finally being conquered by Malcolm Canmore, moray was then reduced to an earldom, albany to a region/dukedom

      until that point, the boundaries of all these factions are within the boudaries of what is recognised as pictland. this included dalriada which even after being conquored by the O Neill’s (fergus more mac erc etc) continued to be considered a provice/territory of the picts. (see prof Wolf and cruithne)

      with the arrival of canmore 1057 ce, he didnt just unite pictish tribes, he brought with it Strathclyde. of which he was the last king.

      throughout canmores life he successfully pursued and incorporated a large area controlled by the Northumbrian kings, including edinburgh and down the coast to newcastle. it was he who detroyed the shrine of st cuthbert.

      some thanks to the kings of northumbria who had helped him defeat macbeth in the 1st place. his success was complete when his youngest son David 1st succeeded his elder brothers in 1114. when he came north, he was already the King of Northumbria. the last king.

      but this area of present day scotland had long been under Anglo saxon northumbrian rule and had recently received an influx of anglo saxons fleeing william the bastard, this included many slaves but also anglo saxon lords into the royal court, including the heiress to the whole of england. Margaret. who was malcolm canmores wife and David the 1st’s mother.

      these lowland areas of cumbric strathclyde and anglosaxon northumbria had long been close neighbours to a northern kingdom, whatever it had been called, but now they were and a new name for the northern kingdom was now needed

      scotland, the clue is in the name, land is a anglosaxon word not gaelic or pictish or cumbric

    188. Ian Brotherhood says:

      A friend has asked me to share this.

      Investigation by Campbell Martin into North Ayrshire & Arran PPI schools-building contracts.

      Bottom line – Labour (Scottish Branch) is desperately covering its filthy arse over this stuff. North Ayrshire residents are paying £1 million MONTHLY for four schools, and will continue to do so until 2037.

      ‘The Only Game In Town, pt 2’ –

    189. Ian Brotherhood says:


      Sorry, should be ‘PPP’ contract.


    190. CameronB Brodie says:

      New Labour were the left wing of the New Right, who brought us Brexit. PFI is a scam that transfers enormousness sums of public money to the bottom line of private companies. As such, it is a good example of neo-liberal government policy and practice.

      Transparency and open government


      Transparency and open government is one of the priorities identified by the Congress in its Roadmap of activities on the ‘prevention of corruption and the promotion of public ethics at local and regional levels’, adopted at the 31st session in October 2016.

      This report highlights the potential of open governance to improve democracy at local and regional levels. It explores the concept of ‘Open government’ and identifies local government activities to which it can apply, such as budgeting, law making, policy making, contracting and service delivery.

      In its resolution, the Congress invites local and regional authorities to adopt and implement open government standards and to introduce training courses in their administrations to raise awareness on the importance of transparency. It calls on them to promote the participation of citizens in local public life, in particular by encouraging public participation in their policy and decision-making processes and promoting the involvement of citizens in defining budget priorities and evaluating procurement contracts.

      In its recommendation, it asks the Committee of Ministers to call on governments to encourage local and regional authorities to publish key documents and information, promote public consultation processes, and support the monitoring and implementation of transparency measures.

    191. Dan says:

      iain mhor says: at 11:27 am

      Yes, it is a bit strict, yes very many people do have University education, but is it 90%+ ? Does the makeup really reflect the demographic of the electorate in Scotland, is there some important bias – does it suggest a reason for the disconnect between the thinking, the methodology of approach to independence as exemplified by the growing unrest both here and BTL. Is there perhaps even a similar bias here we could attempt to qualify?

      There are surely as many highly qualified people whose education is at college level and certainly many without – but the category is there for good reason. It is to highlight the (possible) disparity in representation and to question what it is which lends the itself to a career in politics.

      What is the bar, self induced or imposed, which makes a political career the preserve of the categories I listed. @CBB hinted at the concept of ‘Habitus’ and is it perhaps a case that we are merely habituated to the perception that a political career is not the preserve of the plebs.

      Soz for delay Iain, had to go to practical work today…

      You highlight a situation that I believe is a very valid point to make.
      I can certainly envisage that there will be some similarities in the psychological profiles of those that enter into the political theatre, and that may well create a disconnect between wider society who differ in their general outlook.
      Some of the traits in politicians will be motivating factors in the individual’s belief that they can make a difference. That’s obviously a requirement of the job, but how that drive is perceived by other folk that do not share similar ideals or views can be an issue.

      You don’t have to look too hard to find examples of folk harbouring negative opinions about certain politicians that are unjustified, and often completely misplaced.
      But that said, the way some of our elected representatives operate can quite rightly lead to folk forming opinions about them that are far from positive.
      I’ve interacted with quite a few elected officials and their lackeys in the years I suppose I could be termed as being an activist.
      There’s been very consistent and prominent characteristics among them of how they tend to operate.
      They think they know best and can be extremely dismissive of valid input, even when it’s from extremely credible individuals.
      Everything seems to be analysed by them to see if political captial can be made from a situation.
      The trouble with that is the calculation is being made by them and their own, which because of clique and bias tendencies, often means they lack the receptivity to comprehend the input of other folk from outside their group.
      This is where in my experience the disconnect in campaigning strategies occurs, due to the lack of diverse practical views and skills being taken onboard by individuals or groups who you’d hope or at least think would be interested in ideas that promote their supposed cause.

      I’ll just say it’s a struggle biting one’s tongue and keeping schtoom at times…

    192. Almond Chutney says:

      @CameronB Brodie

      I’m aware of the advocation and dedication of the users on this site for the cause of indepedence yes and I’m not against it.

      Also, just because I may be Eurosceptic than most, doesn’t instantly mean I’m a BritNAt. I’m Welsh/English but consider myself as Welsh for Wales as an independent nation, if you must know. If I were a Scot I would be categorized under the 11% of leave the EU and UK. But above anything, TO ME AND MY FAMILY, remaning in the UK is more important that the EU.

      People have different priorities, people have the right to have that priority and express their freedom of choice in this oh-so ever democratic society, just tone down on the accusations of fascism and racism for simply having a humble opinion.

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