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Wings Over Scotland


A point of reference

Posted on August 08, 2016 by

Straight from a Scottish Labour activist, here’s a little something that’s worth keeping in mind every day of the next decade (or more) of brutal Tory governments imposing policies rejected by the vast majority of Scots.

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    1. 08 08 16 12:56

      A point of reference | speymouth

    2. 20 08 16 08:05

      Re-Run to the Hills | A Wilderness of Peace

    76 to “A point of reference”

    1. True and I have never forgotten it.

    2. Tartan Tory says:

      Have known this for nearly two years.

    3. Betty Boop says:

      Oh Yes, very much something to be remembered, but, we should be gentle with people who were influenced by that party and engage with them and their undoubted disappointment…

    4. Richard says:

      We remember alright, oh yes. Never to be forgiven.

    5. Sassenach says:

      …and did it not cost them dearly at the next GE??

    6. K1 says:

      Well there’s an admission of culpability…we all knew that on the 19th September 2014.

      We made sure we wiped out the Scottish Labour lair at Westminster in May 2015.

      We ensured their MSP numbers were reduced to 3rd place at Holyrood in May 2016.

      Our intentions are to end Scottish Labour’s hegemony at the council level in May 2017.

      How’s that boasting working out for you Scottish Labour?

      You bunch of ludicrous rejects, ye jist never learn.

    7. This is why we have to welcome what is left of it into our movement if we can do so.
      At this point open arms rather than battle stations drawn is how we should face Labour. They are all but finished though the media will give them some coverage but when it becomes more obvious that that it is Scotland versus the Tories we win.

    8. JLT says:

      Some folk just can’t see the bigger, and obviously, clearer picture.

      Everybody else will be to blame …except SLAB of course

    9. Dr Jim says:

      The operative word there being “Country”

    10. gordoz says:

      Whammy !!!!

      Singed to the inside of my eyelids now.

      What a spineless wonder … gobsmacked by PwoudScots sometimes.

      Just gobsmacked at the ‘void’ where a brain should be.

    11. Jimbo says:

      Never forget – never forgive

    12. Ken500 says:

      Won the battle and lost the war. Labour are a mess.

      Trident £200Bilion
      HS2 £100Billion

      Scotland pays £4Billion repayments on loans it doesn’t borrow or spend. ‘Loss leading’ drink costs £1Billion. Oil sector taxed at 40%. Scotland still pays to educate the wealthy from elsewhere.

    13. I hope Labour party activists keep saying that.
      so that the people Scotland aren’t allowed to forget that thanks to Labour they have a Tory Government.

    14. gordoz says:

      🙂 What Dave McEwan Hill said.

      As much as the temptation is there; we must avoid the ‘Othering’ of diminished Labour’s residue of supporters.

      Dwindling as their numbers may be, we must make the YES side of the conversation an attractive welcoming place and a place where former opponents can find enlightenment through harmony, in a sense of future common cause of resisting Tory ideals supplanted on a progressively resistant unified Scotland.

    15. Grouse Beater says:

      The ‘Party of the people’ betrayed the people for its own selfish ends. Securing power over people was more important than the people’s civil rights and self-governance.

    16. Dan Huil says:

      It’s pro-indy versus anti-indy from now until Scotland regains its independence. People like Kevin O’Donnell will be eager, no doubt, to do Westminster’s dirty work – again. Why do these people hate Scotland so much?

    17. Legerwood says:

      Is the tweet not a masterpiece of ambiguity?

      Any Yes voter, such as the posters here, interpret it as an admission that Labour were the barrier to Independence but consider this – how would a No voter interpret it?

      Perhaps No voters would see it as a statement that Labour saved them from all the real or imagined perils of Independence.

    18. galamcennalath says:

      Indeed! You could highlight various contributory factors to BT’s win, however the most effective was SLab. Especially the ‘big’ gravy trainers, whose train has now been well gravied for services rendered to Greater England.

      It was a double act, though. SLab as the ventriloquist’s dummy while London Tories were the real source of the threats and promises. Still, SLab were the public ‘acceptable’ face without whom we would certainly be independent.

      As is all things on this path to self determination we should be willing to embrace converts to Scotland’s cause. It is far from too late for SLab to do the decent thing! In the coming months I am certain we will all be faced with a stark choice – a socially democratic Scotland, or a isolationist xenophobic neocon UK. SLab can still get on Scotland’s side.

    19. I fail to understand my catholic friends position on Scottish independence they seem at best to be Luke warm but they are a 100 per cent behind Irish independence they sing about it and praise it so it seems they are happy to live under the crown but they do not want Ireland to live under it it baffles me

    20. heedtracker says:

      Probably all over in England now as well. You have to hand to whatever Labour actually is, they really know how to self destruct. But remember,

      Scott Arthur ?@DrScottThinks 28 Jul 2015 Islington, London
      Labour’s recovery shouldn’t be about right v left, or rich v poor. It is about convincing everyone that social justice is in their interest.

      Dr NO.

    21. Wellreadned says:

      I am genuinely gobsmacked at the continued stupidity of Scottish Labour.

      I read that whole conversation and the daftness was astounding.

      I remember when I got my first inkling to support the S.N.P
      and it was mainly Slabs one-eyed bitterness and irrational hatred of them which turned me off and sent me on a journey from Unionist to Indy Scot.

      That was 9 years ago and they haven’t learned a single thing.

    22. gordoz says:

      @Grouse Beater

      OK So there is that as well … 🙂

    23. heedtracker says:

      Blair Paterson says:
      Bit early for your style of sectarian jibberjabber vote No stuff Blair.

    24. Andrew McLean says:

      Blair,
      you need to get out more, or change friends, anyway its easy to support something that wont have a personal affect.
      but splinting the Yes vote into sectarian lines is just what the yoons want, well I am a Protestant, and like most except weddings and funerals you would never know, and as a Freemason, as you also know I actually control Scotland so I insist, in a fraternal brotherhood kind of way, you all vote SNP in 2017.

      PS what 🙂 What Dave McEwan Hill said!

    25. Macart says:

      Good to know.

      Its always helpful when someone takes responsibility for the monumental democratic and economic omnishambles they helped create.

    26. Proud Cybernat says:

      “If it wasn’t for Scottish Labour Scotland would be an independent country right now – free of London Tory rule and able to shape our own truly democratic future in the European community with no Trident, Tory austerity, illegal wars, spiralling UK debt, sponging HoL, unequal society etc, etc.”

      There. Fixed.

    27. mike cassidy says:

      Legerwood 11.06

      I don’t think there’s any doubt about its meaning.

      From a year ago.

      http://archive.is/NyG8l

    28. Chiggers says:

      Legerwood.
      Even as a yes voter, that’s how I interpreted it

    29. Scott says:

      I see Willie Young of Aberdeen council wants share of APD and put a levy on hotels to spend on a rail connection from the airport to the city,if I am right did Labour not leave £50m debt one time they left power in Aberdeen.
      I thought APD was to be used for other things according to Baillie and Kez

    30. Blair Paterson at 11.08

      Stop right there
      What Heedtracker says!

      FYI It has been established that Scotland’s Catholics voted YES in higher numbers than the rest of the Scots.

    31. Proud Cybernat says:

      Given Corbyn’s ongoing domestic difficulties as leader of the UK Labour Party, no doubt come the next GE we’ll be told in Scotland how Labour will implement Vow-style Devo-Max / Home Rule / Federalism (it really, really will this time – honest). Followed by: “Just one final push.”

      Or should that be: “One final putsch”?

    32. galamcennalath says:

      mike cassidy says

      “From a year ago”

      That Kevin O’Donnell article summaries saying ….

      “The debate is ours to have and when we have had that debate it is incumbent on the most radical party in British history to go out, build upon previous achievements, and continue to shape that progressive UK that Scottish nationalists so fear.”

      … yes, in 2014/5 there was hope in many Scots’ minds of a Labour government in WM.

      So, how did that turn out!?

      There will be Tory governments in WM, of a particularly right wing persuasion, for years if not decades. Labour dreams of power have evaporated. A Labour WM government is not one of the options on the table.

      So, what do the Kevin O’Donnells of this world suggest Scotland does next, eh?

    33. Luigi says:

      Legerwood says:

      8 August, 2016 at 11:06 am

      Is the tweet not a masterpiece of ambiguity?

      Any Yes voter, such as the posters here, interpret it as an admission that Labour were the barrier to Independence but consider this – how would a No voter interpret it?

      Perhaps No voters would see it as a statement that Labour saved them from all the real or imagined perils of Independence.

      Indeed, although I think it was aimed mainly at the NO voters (they gave up in the YES voters long ago) – written with stubborn BritNat pride at heart. The Labour Party is a very British institution – some in the party may now wish to change this, but for nigh 80 years they have been a working class pillar of British society. The pillar is crumbing a wee bit now, eh?. 🙂

      Message to the red tories – voters do not reward betrayal. If they did, you would have won the elections in 2015 and 2016.

    34. DerekM says:

      We will not forget in fact we will remind Scotland exactly what you have done Red Tories.

      Unfinished business tick tock

    35. ronnie anderson says:

      http://order-order.com/2016/08/08/new-corbynistas-can-vote-leadership-election/

      Labours Implosions have a long long fuse but eventually they do go BANG.

    36. ronnie anderson says:

      http://www.judiciary.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/evangelou-v-mcnicol-20160808.pdf

      Sos on previous posting, this is the one I intended posting.

    37. Andrew McLean says:

      Has KEVIN O’DONNELL been given a truth serum? he stated recently “It has been Nicola Sturgeon’s life work to supplant the Labour Party in Scotland and replace it with a viable, alternative SNP government agitating for independence. She has more than achieved this.” not sure Nicola when building a viable, competent Government was only doing it to spite the Labour party branch office, but more than achieve it she has, with bells on!.

      And all that time Labour in Scotland have attacked the SNP, egged on by its pals in the BBC, Like “we’ve lost it” Smith, that’s why the red Tories have lost to the blue Tories, because the question what is labour actually for, what are they doing, what are their principals, is a complete unknown, a mystery?.
      Ultimately the answer can only be this, the Labour party Scottish branch is neither fish nor fowl! A waste of time, an irrelevance to the Scottish Nation, and a mystery to the English Labour Party.

    38. Rod Miller says:

      We need more independance supporting labour people to come forward and challenge the parties line!!

      Kudos to the guy for coming out publicly, now we need to welcome him and the others into the Yes2 (but it’s really Yes3) movement!! 🙂

    39. ScottishPsyche says:

      Slab appear to have completely given up on any voters who left them over their support for NO.

      Instead they continue to pursue the Tory vote both in Scotland and rUK and have tedious arguments about patriotism versus nationalism.

      The core of Slab who are active on social media demonstrate time and again how completely out of touch they are with the electorate of Scotland. It has parallels with the debate in UK Labour where they have given up on that section of the electorate who may vote for Corbyn but are not being the chance as he is deemed unelectable by a PLP becoming increasingly distant from the membership.

    40. Davie Strachan says:

      A quote from Terry Kelly,soon to be ex councilor for one of the most most deprived in Scotland.
      “I couldn’t care less about Scotland, I care about the UK of which Scotland is a member, I couldn’t care less about Scottish people I care about people.”
      The sooner SLAB is history the better.

    41. yesindyref2 says:

      Well, yeah.

    42. Rod Miller says:

      What an eejit I am!! Just read this the other way!! Good ol’ SLAB you stopped Scotland being an independant nation 🙁

    43. galamcennalath says:

      Proud Cybernat says:

      “Labour will implement Vow-style Devo-Max / Home Rule / Federalism (it really, really will this time – honest). ”

      Yes, DevoMax, the Vow turd which just won’t flush away.

      I also half expect a Tory offer over Brexit …. “you nice sweaties only need to get onboard with a UK wide Brexit deal and then AFTER we are all out of the EU we can have a constitutional commission to consider giving Scotland more powers”.

      I have confidence that OUR leaders will tell them both to bu99er off, Scotland has been sold a poked pig once too often.

      We need the political equivalent of caustic soda to get the drains cleared.

    44. Luigi says:

      Davie Strachan says:

      8 August, 2016 at 12:09 pm

      Terry Kelly

      The dark force is strong in him. 🙂

      The Scottish Cringe seems to be stronger in the Labour Party than anywhere else. Remember Bottler Brown’s “I’m from North Britain” response? Incredible. Those dopes should be more ashamed of their behaviour, than of the fact that they were born on the wrong side of Hadrian’s Wall.

    45. Joannie says:

      He’s boasting about it? Holy crap, what kind of creature boasts about blocking his country’s independence.

    46. crazycat says:

      @ Rod Miller

      Although I assume O’Donnell is patting himself on the back for his party’s “achievement”, he may discover that it would have been better to have kept quiet about it! Letting the cat out of the bag often rebounds on the bag-opener – not least because cats don’t like being confined and have claws and teeth!

    47. Legerwood says:

      mike cassidy @11.33

      Reading the article in your link it would seem that the tweet should be read and interpreted from the No perspective. Yes? No?

    48. Dr Jim says:

      In the next Indy vote Labour NO voters will likely abstain
      Then they can say “it wisnae us” if it doesn’t work out, and “it wiz us” if it does, plus it saves them actually thinking about anything

      I only want to see Neil Findlay cry on Willie Rennie’s
      shoulder while he leans on Ian Gray’s, Kezia standing silently shaking her head in disbelief while Dad Jeff Tweets “See I told you” with Jackie Baillie slowly leaving the building eating her very last Greggs Bridie before she packs her bags for retirement in the Punjab, Alex Rowley looking left and right at everybody and seeing it all as a new opportunity for solidarity in the party with him as the new and exciting leader

      Ruth Davidson checking out her Freemans catalogue for Big and Tall outsize ladies Ermine suits and frocks for that London look as Jackson Carlaw keeps repeating the words “this can’t be right, NO!” Ken MacIntosh squeeking “I still keep my job as presiding officer though don’t I”

    49. Peter Macbeastie says:

      Kevin needn’t worry.

      We remember.

      We’ll make damn sure the Scottish public remember too.

      No one likes being taken for a mug. That’s what Labour did. That’s what he’s proud of. Thanks to Labour we’re now ultimately governed by Tories at Westminster. Thanks to Labour we’re looking at leaving the EU, something we didn’t vote for.

      And where the EU is concerned, when any utter pillock independence supporter (because we clearly have some) says ‘it’s not really independence’ ask them what they thought they were voting Yes for in 2014. Because it wasn’t to get us out of the EU, and if they were glaikit enough to believe the Yoon propaganda about being forced to leave while simultaneously having to take the Euro then hell mend the bloody idiots.

    50. cearc says:

      From that link, it seems that their main claim to fame is introducing he minimum wage and the working time directive, both EU policies! Both brought in at the latest possible date well after most european countries had done so.

    51. Inverclyder says:

      I really think we all need to take a minute and think of how long it will be before Labour finally implode.

      Would think that within two weeks of the Leadership result they will go super nova and split into two parties.

      The divisions down south will be a major blow to the almost lifeless wreck that is the Scottish Labour walking dead.

      OT

      New standard of time being planned by Global Cybernat Corporation Inc.

      A Torrance
      The length of time in Tunnocks Tea Cakes between the first tweet being shot down in flames and the last tweet stating that you are leaving Twitter for good.

    52. Muscleguy says:

      @Blair Patterson

      Cognitive dissonance is common in those who are religious. How else do they square their bronze age beliefs with living in the Genome Age? How do the Catholics stay after all the evil done, condoned and covered up by their priesthood?

      Those of us who try, as much as is possible without perfect knowledge, to be consistent can see the congitive dissonance they use all the time. Once you apply it to one major area of your life it becomes easy to do it to other areas. After all asking too many questions and thinking too deeply about stuff is frowned upon, especially in the more paternalistic religions like Catholicism.

    53. Hamish100 says:

      I used to buy the HERALD on a daily basis but the deterioration in its writing with Gardham, Torrance and that ilk soon put a stop to that.

      Still willing up to a point to buy the Sunday Herald and even the National but it is not a given. For the latter its recent support it would appear for a certain candidate in the SNP deputy leader spot is not good. I want an open debate on Scotland not a partial one decided by who is pally to who.

    54. Joanne says:

      Newsflash for (Scottish) Labour: the days of the Catholic vote being a block vote for you are over. You’re only making it worse by desperately trying to play the Orange card in places like Glasgow and Falkirk. People are realising that SNP doesn’t mean “Still No Popery”.

    55. Dunroamin says:

      Been following Kevin’s tweets for a while now. No idea who he is, but is someone who text book quotes labour political books like a 18 year old student who is immature and clueless of the real world. If not doing that, he spins snpbaaad like McTernan and sounds as nasty. Trouble is he comes across as a 5 year old greetin’ about his ball has been pinched.

      He seems to think it’s Labour’s right to ‘own’ Scotland. Thinks Corbyn is a clown and his hatred for SNP is palpable. He can’t accept that Labour in Scotland are on life support and Lab HQ is a shambles never seen in modern politics. Here’s hoping non of us forget what Lab have done and reflect on that at the 2017 council elections.

    56. starlaw says:

      Kevin O’Donnell .. a disgrace to his name.

    57. Joannie says:

      @Muscleguy and Blair Patteson

      The majority of Catholics in the electorate voted for independence, so you can quit your sectarian comments, thank you.

    58. CameronB Brodie says:

      Muscleguy
      Caw canny man. A light touch is often more productive. 😉

      “There is still so much confusion between the words “temper,” “tempering,” and “hardening,” in the writings of even eminent authorities, that it is well to keep these old definitions carefully in mind. I shall employ the word tempering in the same sense as softening.” – Sir William Chandler Roberts-Austen

    59. robertknight says:

      Yes Kevin, and how is that working out for you and your SLAB MP?

      The Labour Party in Scotland – ‘British’ 1st, ‘Scottish’ only when it suits!

    60. velofello says:

      Watch out for mischief makers is my advice – religion, sport, or whatever,- to get a disruptive debate going.

    61. Fred says:

      Rentaquote Ian Gray appeared on the box anent “The Named Person” with his guitar posed carefully in the background. Is he serving notice that he might take up busking if Slab bomb completely?

    62. drawdeaddave says:

      This is not an original idea, but rather than sitting around waiting for SLab to implode & fold, why don’t we become proactive & join the party & change it from within, have our say at branch meetings, have a say at conference & more importantly come indyref2 we shall be the SLab activists with a strong yes voice, they are there for the taking if we have enough takers ?

    63. clipper says:

      Wondering what motivates “activists” like 0’Donnel. Can they actually be so deluded that they think that SLAB has the faintest chance of ever “owning” Scotland again?

      On one level they remind me of NI unionists, ever so “loyal.” What do they imagine themselves to be loyal to? The “Crown”? The crown = the English ruling class. Ever heard of any prominent NI unionists being invited to a Rothschild banquet? Or to dinner parties in Knightsbridge, Mayfair or Belgravia, or cosy chats at Windsor? The English ruling class wouldn’t be seen dead touching the NI unionists with a bargepole, though they of course wouldn’t hesitate to use them as useful idiots to stir up trouble in places like an independent non neo liberal Scotland for example.

      Just like the NI unionists, and Scots unionists generally, SLAB “activists” like O’Donnel are clueless arseholes whose tiny minds are incapable of seeing anything outwith the scope of their existing prejudices and bias.

    64. Clapper57 says:

      It really is so hard to support Labour in Scotland nowadays when their Scottish leader’s allegiance to HQ leader is like a revolving door.

      1. Corbyn before winning HQ leader contest for first time – She thinks Labour will be carping on sidelines if he wins.

      2. Corbyn wins leader contest – she thinks politics has changed , Corbyn has a lot to offer and she is happy to work with him.

      3. Corbyn and #ChickenCoup – She thinks Corbyn must resign .

      4. Corbyn wins new leadership contest – Well it’s anybody’s guess on next position of Scottish Labour leader.

      All she is presenting the Scottish voters is #PandemoniumPolitics.

      What exactly is she and her party asking us to vote for because they are clearly not united in respect to Corbyn and his policies so why the hell should they expect the voter to unite in voting for them.

      No question about it this is a bloody joke and we are definitely justified in laughing at this disaster of a party. Personally I give not a flying feck for Labour and also whether Corbyn wins or not .

      It makes no difference to me what happens within the Labour party. However it does reinforce the reasons why I vote SNP as opposed to voting for unionist parties . Harmony over Chaos springs to mind.

      Owen Smith is definitely such a RuntC**t and what he offers is not worth jack shit….we also know who is behind Owen’s campaign . Enough said…… Murphy all over again.

    65. David Mills says:

      Yes we know this well, we saw party members the put political party ahead of nation and there fellow Scots climbing in a a cosy bed with Tories and liberals.
      Why to apparently save their party south of the border an illusion posable delusion at no point has a stable labour government been elected to WM without winning in England.
      If anything you alliance with the other has made you position worres as in the long term even if you get Scottish representation because of your good work in indyref2024 they will be muzzled on matter the speaker consider English only.
      In summery your action damaged Scotland who now has to what her economy suffer as May and Co fiddle waiting their Brexiters to stumble.
      And you self harmed your party not only in Scotland but in a posable future WM.

    66. arthur thomson says:

      We must never ever forget Slab’s role in the Referendum and we should never imagine that they will behave differently.

      The Labour Party that Corbyn wants to return to would be no better. It was a deceit in every respect, including the deceit of supporting home rule.

      My wish for Labour is that it disintegrates.

    67. heedtracker says:

      drawdeaddave says:
      8 August, 2016 at 3:27 pm
      This is not an original idea, but rather than sitting around waiting for SLab to implode & fold, why don’t we become proactive & join the party & change it from within, have our say at branch meetings, have a say at conference & more importantly come indyref2 we shall be the SLab activists with a strong yes voice, they are there for the taking if we have enough takers ?

      They vet you though, if you’re thinking about it. They’re not small enough in Scotland to not pick up the phone and have a chat. If youre in Embro, you might be er, probed by this intellectual giant of Britnatness

      https://twitter.com/dhothersall

      or even and because

      Scott Arthur ?@DrScottThinks 28 Jul 2015 Islington, London
      Labour’s recovery shouldn’t be about right v left, or rich v poor. It is about convincing everyone that social justice is in their interest.

      Dr NO.

    68. Truth says:

      Like many others I’m not likely to forget it.

      I’d advise Labour not to ask me for my vote in future. They may not like the answer.

    69. John Edgar says:

      Well spoken!! No further comment necessary.

    70. John Edgar says:

      Now Labour’s NEC are appealing the English High Court decision which states that all recent members must have the vote. The NEC tried to backdate a cut off

      Wonder what Kezia had to say about that? She is agin Corby .

    71. Vambomarbeley says:

      I could not care if someone one a Friday nights stands on their head naked in a bowel of cold custard. If their vote is yes for independence. Then they will do for me.
      I would even sup with the devil but would take a long spoon with me.

    72. Tattie-boggle says:

      SLAB Still have an Ace to play “The Purcell comeback” or was that a Robert Ludlum book i’m confused noo

    73. Almannysbunnet says:

      It will never be forgotten that labour did David Cameron’s dirty work for him in Scotland and with such glee. They still prowl about the land in a state of confusion wondering why the voters have abandoned them, struggling to be heard above their sarcastic laughter.
      They are like a supermarket with a big sign outside their door saying “under new management, customers who don’t shop here anymore are stupid but they’ll be back when they realise that nothing has changed so we are remaining open”.

    74. Fred says:

      Never been in Asda since the Referendum but as the Heid Puddock who told us the cost of the messages would rise under independence has moved on, is their wine offers still a no-no?

    75. Saor Alba says:

      @clipper at 3.31

      “Just like the NI unionists, and Scots unionists generally, SLAB “activists” like O’Donnel are clueless arseholes whose tiny minds are incapable of seeing anything outwith the scope of their existing prejudices and bias”.

      Absolutely spot on clipper. Unionism is built on prejudice, hatred of the other and is totally inward looking and self-serving. It is evil, disgusting and divisive in its nature.



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