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Agnostic like the Pope

Posted on August 08, 2016 by

God knows, readers, there’s almost nothing we want to write about less than either David Torrance or the Scottish Six. Just to restate our own position for the record, we couldn’t care less either way about a dedicated teatime Scottish news programme on BBC Scotland – not because it’s a bad idea but because we have no confidence that in reality it’d end up any better than the embarrassment that is Reporting Scotland, far and away the regional station’s worst current-affairs broadcast.

(Certainly now that Scotland 2016’s had the chop.)


Nevertheless, the former’s article about the latter in today’s Herald is one of the most abysmally disingenuous and badly-argued things we’ve seen in the Scottish media for quite some time, and in the absence of any more diverting news in what now seems to have reasserted itself as the traditional summer slow season, we might as well take a methodical look at it.

“The debate about a “Scottish Six” is far from new. I remember first reading about it as an undergraduate in the mid 1990s, and when I worked at STV in the early 2000s it was much discussed by broadcasting types.

The discussion has always been both political and journalistic: proponents believed it was necessary to reflect the changing nature of the UK while opponents feared it would lead to an embarrassingly parochial outlook on the rest of the world.”

We’re not sure what the justification for that second bit is. Almost every country on Earth has its own national news broadcast. Are they all (presumably including the UK’s) “embarrassingly parochial”? Why would Scotland’s have any particular tendency to be so, unless Torrance is saying BBC Scotland and its staff are uniquely hopeless?

When “cybernats” say things like that they get mercilessly pilloried for abuse.

“A lot of the arguments in favour are pretty weak once you scratch the surface: it has always been the case that stories about English health and education didn’t apply to Scotland, even before the advent of devolution; that’s nothing new and thus reveals the predominantly political nature of the issue.”

So because something’s always been rubbish it must always stay rubbish? What the heck sort of argument is that?

“I’ve always been an agnostic, and while I could almost see the logic of an hour-long bulletin in the late 1990s, I’m now even more convinced that the idea is at least 20 years out of date: an analogue solution in a digital age.”

Aye, you’re agnostic like bears are agnostic on using flushing toilets. That line about analogue solutions in a digital age is snappy but what does it actually mean? What’s changed about the argument in the last 20 years? We can’t think of anything, and Torrance declines to elaborate.

“This isn’t to say there aren’t issues with the status quo; far from it but the proposed remedy is confused on a number of fronts.

First, the present set up reflects the UK as it stands and – it’s easy to forget – as endorsed by a majority in the independence referendum.”

Wait, what? We don’t remember a referendum on a Scottish news bulletin. Nor do we recall a referendum where the No camp’s offering was “the status quo”. In fact, we specifically remember the No campaign bursting a blood vessel to sell a No vote as a vote for massive change.


The Scotland Act which followed the referendum was trumpeted endlessly by Unionist politicians as delivering the most mega-devolved super-duper deluxe Parliament in all of Creation. So why shouldn’t it be reflected by more devolved news coverage?


Wouldn’t it in fact be criminally irresponsible NOT to reflect these amazing new powers by changing the way we report Scotland’s governance?

“As an internal BBC document leaked earlier this year revealed, focus groups across Scotland declared ‘a strong interest in a UK perspective on UK and international stories’, arguably already provided by the Six O’Clock News which, contrary to some Nationalist claims, regularly covers big stories emanating from north of the Border.”

You already get to be on the grown-up news sometimes, Jock! Shut up!

“Support for a Scottish Six among viewers was also found to be ‘muted’, an important point that’s been completely lost in the current stramash. Half a million Scots tune in to watch Jackie Bird presenting Reporting Scotland at 6.30pm – why should that be taken away from them?”

What sort of boiling insanity is this? There’s barely a word of that sentence that isn’t demented. Who’s proposing to take anything away from anybody? If people are tuning in because of Jackie Bird (rather than despite her), wouldn’t they be twice as excited by getting twice as much of her? If half a million people watch something as awful as Reporting Scotland, how many might watch something even a little bit better?

(Because remember, if 500,000 Scots are watching it, that means that more than 90% aren’t.)

We’re not surprised support is “muted”, for reasons we’ve covered already. Roughly half of Scotland has no trust at all in the BBC, and with considerable justification. And if they don’t trust the BBC because they perceive it to be biased, while much of the Unionist half is desperate to keep things the way they are because they like it biased, then it’s miraculous that ANYONE supports a Scottish Six. Yet polling is essentially a three-way dead heat between for, against and don’t know/don’t care.

“And why should it start at 6pm? The idea that the whole nation is home by then and prepared to watch an hour of news programming is a curiously old-fashioned, even patronising, concept.”

Someone do us a favour and introduce David Torrance to the 21st century, would you? You can watch the news on your phone when you’re sitting on the bus these days, or you can watch it on iPlayer when you get home, or you can record it.


And if nobody’s at home then why was he just trumpeting the fact that half a million people watch it now? And doesn’t that argument work just as well against the network 6 o’clock news, anyway? Is Torrance calling for that to be chucked as an “analogue solution in a digital age” too?

If he’s arguing for ALL news shows to be shunted back to 6.30pm, fair enough. But he seems not to be. It’s just grunting, neanderthal Scots who take longer to lumber back to their hovels from down t’pit or something.

“It’s also a bit weird to argue that what’s needed is news that’s more ‘relevant’ to Scottish audiences and then waxing lyrical about international news. The impression generated is that a story about the NHS in England (which would likely have significant spending and policy implications for Scots) is somehow less ‘relevant’ than viewing the Middle Eastern conflict through a ‘Scottish lens’ (whatever that might mean).”

“The impression generated” is journalist-speak for “this is what I think, but can offer no sort of evidence for”, in case you were wondering. But the whole point of a show twice as long is that it would have time to cover both of those stories, and to make an editorial judgement about which was more important to Scottish people and how each should be reported.

“Then there are the staffing implications. The leaked memo observed that the present BBC Scotland team had ‘some strong talent but not enough depth of specialism’, while the ‘ideal’ editor of the new Scottish Six would require network experience, leading staff to conclude that London management doesn’t think the Jocks are up to delivering the new format without help from the imperial capital.”

And the solution to that shortage of talent and/or experience is to ensure that they NEVER develop those skills by never giving them the opportunity? Um, okay. We can’t help feeling that if David Torrance was Scotland manager he’d still be fielding Kenny Dalglish at the age of 65, on the grounds that he had “experience” and it was too risky to give the kids any game time.

(We’ll skip over the fact that it probably couldn’t make our midfield any worse.)

“Most baffling, meanwhile, is the political dimension. At last autumn’s SNP conference, I attended a fringe debate on broadcasting that descended into self-indulgent chaos, a succession of angry delegates denouncing a BBC Scotland executive for discriminating against Andy Murray, propagating national stereotypes and even making Scotland appear too small on the weather map.

A Scottish Six would temper little of this visceral dislike of the “British” Broadcasting Corporation, for what many of them (and their former leader Alex Salmond) object to is a perceived Unionist ‘bias’ in its journalistic output. Nicola Sturgeon and her ministers consistently emphasise the importance of ‘editorial and management independence of the BBC from government and politicians’, and rightly so, but it seems likely they’re out of step with the party grassroots.”

So the argument against having a Scottish Six is now that SNP conference delegates wouldn’t like it? Quite aside from being a pretty mad reason not to do it, the entire assertion is simply cobblers – SNP voters are by far the most in favour.

According to the Daily Mail’s Survation poll, SNP supporters back the proposal by a margin of +37, with Tory voters on -43, Lib Dems on -37 and Labour voters on -19. If you exclude don’t-knows, support among SNP voters rockets to 77%.

(And 22% of Nats say they’d be more likely to trust the BBC’s reporting if there was a Scottish Six, with just 8% saying the opposite. Most think it’d make no difference, but are willing to give it a chance.)

“And that’s the problem in a nutshell: the debate about broadcasting is intensely political and has always possessed a strong nationalist undertone, even two decades ago, a desire for ‘our’ news to be presented in Scotland by Scots. Nationalism tends to value structures and symbolism more highly than actual content or substance and so it’s proven with the Scottish Government’s approach to the Scottish Six.”

Ooh, he almost let an article slip by without a little sly dig about how all nationalists are superficial and stupid, there. But wait a minute – who was it who actually made the Scottish Six a political football? Those dastardly separatists, right?


Oh. No. The idea was actually backed by independent broadcasting bodies and BBC Scotland itself many years ago, as it is now, but blocked by Tony Blair and Lord Birt explicitly on the grounds of fighting Scottish nationalism.

“Then there’s the blatant inconsistency. Nationalists claim this is all about strengthening the Scottish media in general, the BBC in particular and even creating more jobs for journalists but that’s a bit difficult to take seriously from individuals who have (mostly) spent the past few years constantly traducing network BBC reporters, BBC Scotland output and implying an institutional anti-Scottish bias because Jackie Bird once smiled at Alistair Darling.”

That the BBC has an institutional bias against Scottish independence is not in the tiniest amount of rational dispute. It’s a measurable economic fact even before you start thinking about the Corporation’s ideological viewpoint, as illustrated by Birt in the case above.

That’s clearly never going to stop media luvvies like Torrance sneerily dismissing and playing down things like the incredibly cosy relationships between the BBC and the Unionist parties, or the curious frequency of employment interchange between the two bodies (such as former BBC employee Ruth Davidson), or any amount of statistical evidence or examples, but it’s worth keeping in mind when he makes such dishonest observations as those above.

It’s indisputably the case that a Scottish Six WOULD strengthen the Scottish media in general and create more jobs for journalists. That it might also at least partially stand to address some imbalance and bias issues would in most people’s eyes be a good thing – but to Torrance that seems to be an argument against it.

“And I can’t help feeling that the sudden change of tone within the BBC itself smacks of it having caved into this relentless political pressure (they’re used to it from the Tories rather than Nationalists). As ever, to watch the formidable SNP machine at work is disturbingly impressive and it’s been applied beyond the BBC; even the commercial broadcaster STV hasn’t escaped.”


The BBC, of course, is absolutely famed across the world for its tendency to cave in to pressure from Scottish nationalists. [SUB PLEASE CHECK THIS]

“As others have observed, the arguments for or against a Scottish Six have become a proxy for the broader constitutional debate. Thus they aren’t considered on their own merits but rather viewed through that tiresome prism.”

Yes, they are – by you.

“So last week an innocuous interview I did on the BBC News Channel blossomed into a Twitter storm that derived its considerable energy not from what I actually said but from the fact that I was arguing against a Scottish Six.”

Wait – you were, according to yourself, arguing against it? Aren’t you “agnostic”?

“On a related Facebook thread, a fellow commentator informed me that I epitomised the Scottish ‘cringe’ (‘Scotland bad, UK good – that we all thought we might have got rid of 30 years ago’), although it was clear she hadn’t actually heard what I’d said. No matter; she’d gleaned the impression that I was a bad ‘un and that was enough. This is, after all, increasingly a cultural war, and the first casualty is any degree of nuance.”

Just a few paragraphs ago in the very same article, Torrance was quoting reports saying that BBC Scotland staff weren’t up to the job. He was rubbishing the idea that silly wee Scotland might have its own perspectives on news events, or be able to judge its own news values properly, or tell whether a UK story had Scottish ramifications. He was suggesting a Scottish Six might be “embarrassingly parochial”.

Those doesn’t seem to us to be terribly strong grounds from which to be defending yourself against an accusation of “Scottish cringe”.

“So what of the solution? The BBC is clearly prepared to free up some cash for the decades-old idea of a Scottish Six, but couldn’t it be much better deployed after several years of cutbacks? Why not use the extra millions to beef up Reporting Scotland’s team of specialist correspondents, create a new Scottish Question Time (David Dimbleby’s network version is increasingly tired) and give Scotland’s many excellent broadcasters space and time to work on investigative projects?”

What’s the point of a beefed-up team of specialist correspondents if you have to squeeze their reports into 30 seconds between the murder and the fitba? Why would a Scottish Question Time be any different to the UK one (which is produced in Scotland)? Why can’t we have investigations AND a decent news programme? Wouldn’t one feed naturally into the other?

“In a recent blog, BBC Scotland’s Douglas Fraser also suggested ‘integrating’ the current Six O’Clock News ‘as it’s seen from Cardiff, Belfast and Salford’, then doing ‘it all over again’ at Ten O’Clock. That, however, has the merit of being a good idea and these days such things stand little chance of becoming practical reality.”

We haven’t a clue what the “idea” there actually is. What does “integrating the current Six O’Clock News as it’s seen from Cardiff, Belfast and Salford” mean? Integrating it into what? Why is Edinburgh excluded from that list of UK capitals?

We went and tracked down the Douglas Fraser blog in question to see if we could cast any light, and what we found was remarkable:


Fraser was actually floating the idea of something much more dramatic than a mere Scottish Six – an entire digital Scottish channel, which would run a “news from the rest of the UK” bulletin in the news hour. It’s incredibly weird for Torrance to have separated that from its context and cited it in isolation, and we can’t begin to work out what point he was trying to make.

But the Fraser piece also noted something else:


If ever there was an argument that WAS decades out of date it’s the idea of the nation unifying en masse around a TV broadcast. What Birt, and Torrance 20 years later, are desperately trying to cling to is a Britain that hasn’t really existed since the 1980s.

And that nostalgic desire is made even more nonsensical by the fact that we do live in a digital, multi-channel age now – all the furious Unionist patriots who want to watch British, not Scottish, news would have to do in the event of a Scottish Six would be switch to the BBC News channel (503 on Sky, 130 on Freeview) at six o’clock, which currently and entirely pointlessly broadcasts the UK-wide BBC News At Six while the exact same show is going out on BBC1.


BBC Scotland showing the Scottish Six while the news channel shows the UK bulletin. A free choice. Scottish news for people who feel Scottish, British news for people who feel British. Everybody gets what they want. The best, if we might be so bold as to coin a phrase, of both worlds.

Who could object to that? What is it that David Torrance is really so angry about?

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  1. 08 08 16 14:56

    Agnostic like the Pope | speymouth

225 to “Agnostic like the Pope”

  1. Sinky says:

    Agreed Scottish Broadcasting Corporation more required than Scottish Six but Scottish cringe alive and well among the metropolitan elite wannabees.

    Good article by Peter Bell on Kevin McKenna’s defence of Torrance

  2. Murray McCallum says:

    If a “Scottish Six” were to lead to more and better resources located, and spent, in Scotland it could lead to an improved overall standard of journalism. Maybe even turn around a period of decline.

    This may be worrying to the more short sighted individuals currently eking out a living by writing repeat narrative and/or anything for anyone?

    It’s almost as if Scottish journalists want jobs and expertise to go elsewhere.

  3. Grouse Beater says:

    I remember Greg Dyke’s depression at Blair’s political intervention. He got all the usual threats, no increase in licence fee, placement in BBC trusts, that sort of thing.

    What it amounts to is the only criticism you hear against a Scottish Six – unionist sentiment doesn’t like national or international news delivered in a Scots accent.

    Scottish accents are common, and will devalue news.

    And they do not want Scottish issues placed top of the news. No, sir.

    That will come as a shock to Scottish newsreaders and journalists who broadcast from London – there being no opportunities for them to do that in their homeland.

    Colonial mentality rules – okay?

  4. Brenda says:

    Once again, an excellent forensic ripping apart of Torrance’s trash-talk.
    I wish I could carry Rev Stu about in my handbag and bring him out whenever I am in a discussion. I always forget the facts, figures, whens and wheres. Rev Stu has the details at his fingertips. Thank you. x

  5. Hamish100 says:

    Torrance supports a beard from the 1500’s so his ability to think in modern terms for a news media age determined by iphones etc is extremely limited.

    The main problem for Torrance is that he cannot face the reality of Scotland with its own parliament, with its own news, culture and peoples. BBC News 24 just today promoting cultural events happening around Europe and further afield.

    The largest cultural event in the world was ignored. The parochial BBC London dictates the terms and the likes of Torrance toady on. An OBE beckons sometime in the future.

  6. mogabee says:

    David Torrance is just trying to save us from becoming “Parochial”..’s for the bestest of reasons really!

  7. Wulls says:

    Har de Har……….Torrence is annoyed at someone being able to decipher his bullshit clearly and with evidence based presentation….
    If I called him an arsehole that would be vile cybernat online bullying……..
    But I can’t think of another word to describe him.
    A newspaper featuring input from the likes of him and torquill is surely doomed. Only the Sun level IQ in certain parts of central/west scotland allows this rag to survive.
    How they think their opinions and deeply flawed analysis is relevant or even accurate is beyond my thinking. I simply have no point of reference to this bullshit so I simply don’t bother reading the record any more. In fact if my chips were wrapped up in it I would ask for a refund.
    So thanks Stu for making me read this arseholes outpourings ( I think)

  8. Jimbo says:

    What is it that terrifies the Yoons so much about Scotland being a normal country?

    Why are they so desperately desperate to keep Scotland down?

    Why are they such cowering, crouching, grovelling, self demeaning, pathetic creatures?

    Maybe some-one could ask Torrance and/or his fellow cringe-meisters – If they ever get the opportunity to hold a grown up conversation with them.

  9. Ian MacDonald says:

    He really isn’t of the calibre needed for a serious commentator. Some of his contemporaries are at least insightful or engaging, even if I don’t usually agree with their views. Torrance is just drab.

    His continued appearance in the MSM is as baffling as McTernan still being asked for political opinion.

  10. Macart says:

    Mr Torrance and joined up thinking.

    Never the twain apparently.


  11. galamcennalath says:

    Superb dissection by The Rev here.

    I reckon as Torrance sits each morning munching his BetterTogether cereal he contemplates what he will cringe about that day.

    It would be hilarious if Torrance tried to reference the stuff he writes like The Rev always does.

    Firstly, most of it is just personal opinion born from the prejudices Torrance holds. However, some does come from other sources. You’d follow his links and find the originals saying something quite different.

  12. shug says:

    Is it not better to keep the BBC as it is. It is so clearly bias that it works for the nationalist cause. If they change to a Scottish six it will be presented as balanced and might actually become believable.

    I suspect it is better to keep it as the joke it is.

    People currently laugh at Call Kaye’s attacks on the NHS and Police Scotland. I think we should keep it that way.

  13. HandandShrimp says:

    Never watch BBC News in any of its guises. Sneering condescending, shallow and partial.

    However, if it annoys the Yoons as much as this then I am up for a Scottish Six 🙂

  14. Roddy Macdonald says:

    After his narcissistic breakdown last week he got it into his head that reusing his standard weekly SNP Bad column just wouldn’t do and this journalistic masterpiece devoid of any contribution to the debate is the result.

    The trick to surviving as a narcissistic psychopath is that once you’ve been exposed as toxic to one location and group of people, you move on. This is a tad difficult if your narcissism drove you to expose yourself to an entire nation. Happily for him, Torrance doesn’t regard Scotland as a nation.

    The good folk of England, Wales or NI are in for a real treat before only running to the USA, Canada, Australia, NZ or SA will be left.

  15. Desimond says:

    Its all about Me…its all about me baby!

    Poor David…now finding himself on the periphery and wondering how he managed to slip up so badly!

    Hes staring into the abyss, he knows it, we know it.

    Good luck chump

  16. shiregirl says:

    I don’t watch the news now. I end up getting annoyed and a little depressed at the anti-nationalist rhetoric. And the ‘and finally’ stories are total time filling tosh. I no longer by papers either. (Ok, I buy a Banffy when the kids have their photos in it).

    I do acknowledge that others do want to watch the news at a time where they can preferably commute back from work and heat up their dinner and sit watching it.

    It’s becoming increasingly more apparent that Torrance is a man desperately writing to piss the majority off, to invoke reaction and fulfil his need for attention. There is something narcissist going on here, in my opinion.

    The twitter stunt was manipulation to influence and fuel SNP bad and again, gain attention and support. The Herald are losing readers by the shed load and need to ditch him – and I amn’t a Herald buyer and haven’t been for a couple of years but cringed again at the article today online.

    I honestly think Torrance has a few issues and his articles are a wee peek into what is going on in that hirsute noggin of his. The man needs to take a break and reflect as his writing sounds more and bizarre by the day.

  17. Gary45% says:

    So long as the establishment keep spouting the “too wee and too stupid” line, then I suppose the journos in Scotland will believe they are incompetent at their jobs.
    No Surprise labour had something to do with this, after all “Scottish citizens thinking for themselves???,” keep them dumb, keep them stupid, after all “if you don’t know vote no”
    There was a trumpet on Rad Shortbreads “finest phone in show”!!! last week, who said something like “this will be an SNP propaganda outlet” (aye the bogeymans coming to get you)
    On a happier note,
    Its great to see the bearded carpet hasn’t joined a Wurzels tribute act. (I must be suffering from the DTs)
    Carpet Tank Tops for independence.

  18. Swami Backverandah says:

    They’re really not that good – again.

    Torrance reveals himself as a lamb in sheep’s clothing.

  19. Camz says:

    If I may adjust one of the quoted texts to give another point of view:

    “And that’s the problem in a nutshell: the debate about broadcasting is intensely political and has always possessed a strong unionist undertone, even two decades ago, a desire for ‘our’ news to be presented in Scotland by England. British Nationalism tends to value structures and symbolism more highly than actual content or substance and so it’s proven with the Westminster Government’s approach to the BBC.”

  20. ClanDonald says:

    The real reason the unionists want to prevent a Scottish Six is because they’re feart that it will somehow make us Scots feel less British.

    But they can’t say that out loud, otherwise we’d know that the current set up is a deliberate attempt to make us feel less Scottish and more British. So they come up with all sorts of nonsense reasons that we all end up laughing at.

    Maybe if they were more honest about their motives we wouldn’t spend so much time taking the piss out of them.

  21. Edward Freeman says:

    It is very clear to me that ALL TV licence revenue in Scotland should go to a new Scottish Broadcasting Company, and should be spend in Scotland, except for money spent buying in content from elsewhere. No doubt that would include the BBC News channel, as there would obviously be a demand for it, but do we really need or want to pay for all of the output of all of the rest?

    It’s worth pointing out that the BBC has a pretty huge underspend in Scotland, so if anyone wants more jobs for Scottish meeja people and journalists (is there a difference?) in Scotland itself, this must be change. I for one refuse to pay for the State mouthpiece of another country to deliver me misinformation and disinformation, propaganda and lies.

  22. Calum McKay says:

    When is blatant nationalism not blatant nationalism?

    When it”s blatant british nationalism!

    People used to look back at seventies tv clippings of over the top Brazilian football commentators when Brazil scored and cringe. No need to look back forty years, look back last night to the over top fawning and brown nosing articulated by bbc commentators.

    britsh nationalism stinks!

  23. Dcanmore says:

    For someone who rails against ‘analogue solutions for a digital world’ he sure as heck needs a few dead trees to earn himself a crust.

    Let’s face it, Torrance has an ideology, it is British and it’s Tory, he believes a Scottish Six is a threat to that, so he has to come up with reasons to be against a Scottish Six as a writer/commentator. What is presented is a clear example of how demented the opposing view gets when you have no real arguments at all.

  24. Tam Jardine says:

    I posted this earlier on the Herald in response:

    We are truly through the looking glass with this piece- the single most prominent voice in the debate on the Scottish Six is arguably David Torrance due to the platform he receives on the Herald, in the Times, on BBC television on BBC radio etc etc. And he is complaining about “interference”! How deliciously ironic of him.

    I find this fascinating. I know it is an opinion piece – his facts to back up his opinion are not sourced to be checked for that all important context . For a journalist to rely on an unnamed leaked BBC document as his only evidence against the Scottish Six is revealing. The rest seems to be the work of a hunch. Woodward and Bernstein need not be troubled.

    If I were writing an article on the BBC to rely solely on a BBC document is pretty weak. Similarly relying on the “we won the referendum” is weak also – does that mean we shouldn’t have a Scottish Six? David doesn’t think that Reporting Scotland should be axed but rather beefed up so it is a slightly more “nuanced” discussion than a rerun of the referendum.

    Another nuanced point David excludes from this piece is that the SNP have no “competence” here at present- this has been discussed by the commons culture, media and sport committee, which is made up of of six Conservative MPs, four from Labour and one SNP. From what I can tell the discussion has been concluded and this article is making an argument on a decision that has already been made.

    Rather than vague, unsourced leaked BBC documents to support his point can I point him and others towards the research on carried out on behalf of the same westminster committee into how the BBC is viewed by audiences across the UK. The references to Scottish attitudes across the board suggest a much more drastic change to the BBC in Scotland than simply a beefed up Jackie Bird and co with more reports from Kirkcaldy Sherriff Court and more anti SNHS stories from Eleanor Bradford are required.

    Finally if David truly believes a Scottish Six would be parochial, unwatched and unpopular then surely he should be behind the plan- the SNP can be blamed and it will revert to coverage from westminster then a wee segment of the news where you are. What can he be afraid of? It being a success perhaps?

  25. Neil Cook says:

    Why disect this idiots diatribe, he is obviously deluded. All he is doing is hoping for a response so that people keep on publishing his drivel.

    Dont give this idiot any response as he is obviously an angler waiting for a catch as he sets the lure waiting for a bite. I think he is playing you knowing that you will respond ?
    I seriously hope this is the last ever article in response to this clown as I wouldn’t even waste my time reading what he writes.

  26. theMadMurph says:


    for “Not do we recall a referendum”, should we read “Nor…”

  27. Bob Mack says:

    It will not worry me in what format the new show appears. If you trust anything the BBC says is truth,you are deluded.
    We only need to look at the way they have stage managed publicity for the UK government over the illegal wars,and how they have tried to subdue the call for Scottish independence. Mr Corbyn is also feeling the blowtorch treatment for not quite fitting in with the Establishment.
    The sooner they are defunct in Scotland the better.

  28. Luigi says:

    So the great big steaming “agnostic” (or wee shite) finally admits to arguing against it. Tripped up by his own bullshit. Would it be possible to publish a letter response to all of Torrance’s bullshit?
    Fair play n’all!

    Well done Rev. 🙂

    It’s amazing how many yoons falsely claim to be agnostic (or undecided) on so many constitutionally sensitive issues. The referendum certainly outed a few of them. I can think of a few, but there are I’m sure many more to be found with a little digging.

    An Agnostics List, anyone? (for light entertainment).

  29. Ian Brotherhood says:

    I can’t be the only one who would like to see the ‘Six’ stay national, but delivered by someone with a Cholmondley-Warner accent, a light orchestra playing in the background.


  30. Stoker says:

    Rev wrote:
    “Certainly now that Scotland 2016’s had the chop.”

    And we all know why that is, don’t we? It was that gash and full of guff they could no longer justify the huge expenditure on it. They may have been able to hide their average viewing figures from the peasants but they feared facts were about to catch up with them. Either that or they were made to make cuts to help towards the extortionate Olympics coverage costs.

    As for a “Scottish Six” or any other insulting diversion, i refuse to be drawn into the debate other than to say, for all the reasoning in the article above and more, that nothing short of our own broadcasting powers within our own independent Scotland will satisfy me. Then we get to decide the quality of output we have educating Scotland and not some devious puppet master hiding behind curtains made in London.

  31. A Welcome Home says:

    Torrance is a still a tory as well as a media media luvvie.

    The tory polling on the scottish six shows precisely why Torrance is going through these cringing contortions and making even less sense than usual as he gets lost in his own contradictions and childish ‘logic’.

    He had his arse handed to him on social media and twitter for being such an absurd cringing fool. Very funny it was too. 😉

    So Torrance is of course going to run crying to the one group that simply doesn’t care about making any kind of logical sense and gets more dementedly angry by the day at the idea of Scotland being treated like a country instead of a mere ‘region’ of Britain.


    It’s the same reason the Scottish tory leader Ruth Davidson is also willing to treat BBC Scotland TV broadcasters with undisguised patronising contempt as well. Even though (or maybe because? 😉 )she used to work for them.

  32. galamcennalath says:

    @Camz at 12:49

    It matches reality better ‘your’ way 🙂

  33. Grouse Beater says:

    Just remembered I touched upon the ‘Scottish Six’ issue here:

  34. heedtracker says:

    Scottish Six would start anglocentric grot but the potential is huge. Breaking free of BBC London/USA focused everything and even just learning about/becoming familiar with, our Irish and Scandinavian neighbours through a Scottish perspective would be so interesting.

    So its never going to happen.

    Its a two citadel face off for ever in Scotland, BBC Scotland Pacific Quay v SNP Holyrood. 40 miles apart but tory BBC determined to take down SNP Holyrood.

    They can do it too. Look at their merciless monstering of poor old JC.

  35. Quentin Quale says:

    The more I read of this Torrance chap the more it seems he is out of his depth as a wordsmith. I suspect he would like to be writing in the style of, say, Pat Kane but lacks the basic understanding of current political discourse to carry it off. Also a bit odd having a pop at something you don’t believe in and arguing its time has come and gone as being an ‘analogue solution in a digital age’ when you have just trooped off Twitter in a strop and are concentrating on writing in the dying MSM. Maybe we just see things differently.

  36. Tam Jardine says:

    His remarks on a dedicated Scottish Question time are interesting- presumably they would need a regular 3 or 4 Scottish journalists and commentators to appear. His good self, maybe David Clegg of the record, or Alex Massie etc etc. Could have been a good (sniff) gig for David (sniff).

    After making my own points against the piece this morning and reading Stu’s great dissection it seems to me that there is just so much that is pish in David’s opinion piece- most of our points don’t even overlap!

    This cannot be accidental- he knows after his tactical error in the studio and subsequent cream puff last week he should really produce something substantial, even irrefutable this week.

    Instead we get this weak drivel beginning with his little qualifier at the start- I worked for STV once- what do YOU know about it? And all the time his motivation is there for all to see- political? Is there anyone more political in their reaction to each and every story than Torrance?

  37. Johnny says:

    Re a ‘Scottish Question Time’. He probably likes this idea because he could see himself being on it every other week as the ‘journo’ on the panel.

  38. robertknight says:

    “Dismantled” is the word that comes to mind…

    Poor Tory-dunce…

    “Clean-up on aisle 6!”

  39. Cuilean says:

    Torrance writes: “Why not use the extra millions to beef up Reporting Scotland’s team of specialist correspondents..?”

    Wait. Isn’t Torrance on Reporting Scotland’s team of ‘specialist’ correspondents?

  40. David Wardrope says:


    “Those doesn’t seem to us to be terribly strong grounds from which to be defending yourself against an accusation of “Scottish cringe”.

  41. “… not because it’s a bad idea but because we have no confidence that in reality it’d end up any better than the embarrassment that is Reporting Scotland …”

    Exactly wot I thought about the vow. Even if was delivered it was crap.

  42. Macnakamura says:

    So much time, effort and intellectual exercise spent on a self-admiring blow hard .

  43. Fred says:

    Time is of the essence here, Jackie Bird is already looking like something off Mount Rushmore!

  44. Andrew McLean says:

    You would think Torrance would be frightened of losing votes when he next stands for election, after all he is a politician isn’t he. I mean he isn’t just reporting the news, he is a decision maker, a maker of news? or am I mistaken?

    With the lack of credible opposition, the unionist press have risen to the challenge, “vote Torrance for a brighter future”, pity he is more like a lobotomised Boris than a credible candidate.

  45. heedtracker says:

    David Wardrope says:
    8 August, 2016 at 2:30 pm

    “Those doesn’t seem to us to be terribly strong grounds from which to be defending yourself against an accusation of “Scottish cringe”.

    Which is David?

    This is all just background noise to BBC Scotland planners. What they will be doing now is working on how to build on the reasonable success they had in their last Scottish election campaign, successfully pulling down SNP gov to NOT a majority. That was a great victory for the BBC, for all the useful idiots they roped in, probably a bit more chastening.

    They’ll be trying to apply the same kind of BBC says vote anyone but SNP tactics for SNP Westminster over the next 4 years but at least it’s making them work a tad.

    Will they continue with their full on monstering of individual SNP MP’s?

    Will they continue their surgically targeting of selected individuals like Michelle Thompson? Her monstering by BBC Reporting Scotland teatime news alone is one for the broadcast attack propaganda text books but they’ll need to build on their individual smear campaigns to have a real impact by the 2020 GE.

    They’ve got the funds, they’ve got a giant glass box of nothing much but UKOK propaganda and they’re motivated, with great high pay jobs, maybe even some gongs from purring Brenda, they will save the union, wont they David:D

  46. AndyH says:

    Wow! That Torrance (I saw him cycle up the Royal mile with Butchers Apron socks on) just failed his ‘O’ level English homework essay.

    What a load of garbage.

    He actually earns a living as a journo??!

  47. CameronB Brodie says:

    Well then, what have we here?

    Mike Condello and the Salt River Navy Band – Soggy Cereal

  48. Balaaargh says:

    I know it’s a slow news day but I just hope that hipster beardy doesn’t write an article on Rangers for tomorrow!

  49. Dan Huil says:

    Once again britnats like Torrance are shown up to be tenth-rate so-called journalists. They are an embarrassment to Scotland.

    Don’t buy the Herald; don’t visit its website [however great the temptation to register your disgust at Torrance and his jumped-up juvenalia].

  50. Hopefully if we get a Scottish Six we can start from scratch and clear out the Yoons and Cringers,

    it will need an editor/producer that is free from political bias and has Scotland`s interest at the fore front of any news,

    and definitely not a Scottish Cringer/blairite

    would like to see more in depth foreign news maybe a 10/15 min slot on countries more our size,

    and a correct scale map of Scotland and no fricken fitba,

    as for Tory boy Torrance he needs to get away from Scotland, maybe write a column from his glorious England, in Hull,Luton or Coventry.

  51. Proud Cybernat says:

    New one duly ripped. Nice one, Rev.

  52. Proud Cybernat says:

    His words shoved so far up his keekie-winkie that DT will be spewing alphabet soup for weeks.

    Oh wait….

  53. JaceF says:

    STV actually started to go for a Scottish digital channel in the 90’s called S2, it was part of a push towards Scottish focused news and digital presence S1 being the online arm – s1jobs, s1play etc.

    It fell by the wayside though I think after they bought Ginger Media.

  54. Breeks says:

    Scottish 6 is like Federalism; there was a time and a place when it might have worked and been a progressive idea worth taking seriously.

    Sadly that time has long since passed.

    The Scottish 6 now looks for all the world like a sticking plaster for the BBC’s damaged integrity rather than any progressive improvement in actual Scottish news, and it will come from a state propaganda channel which stills considers cricket, and England winning the World Cup 50 years ago to be newsworthy.

  55. I vowed the other day never again to give this mercenary poltroon the cyanide of public derision ever again on this forum. I’ve posted on Indyref 2 and pointed readers there to this excellent visceral mauling of he whose name will never trip from my keyboards ever again.
    He is now biting the hand that feeds him a BBC Jordanhill. We’ll see how long that lasts.

  56. Onwards says:

    The arguments against a proper news programme from Scotland in this era of devolution are incredibly weak. Really grasping at straws.

    Surely Torrance must have went over that article in his head before sending it in, and admitted to himself “This is pish..”

    He backs up his own point that much of the issue is political.
    ‘Agnostic like the pope’ indeed.

  57. heedtracker says:

    Kenfarq thunders but after wading through that latest Disgruntled Walnut bleh, its quite funny. Only teamGBists could pile in to Pacific Quay wailing and whining about no longer tweeting, and its only because he made such a fool of himself live on the telly last week. At least he’s not shame free.

    Kenny Farquharson ?@KennyFarq Aug 3
    Sorry to hear David Torrance has left Twitter. I hope it’s not for long. A fine analytical mind. Abuse on Scottish Twitter is getting worse.

  58. yesindyref2 says:

    But apart from all that it was one of Torrance’s best articles.

  59. chasanderson200 says:

    To paraphrase:-My impression (Torrance-speak for evidenced research) is that he is a complete a***hole with a head full of “meltin’ snahbahs” and we are paying far too much attention to him!

  60. David Wardrope says:

    @heedtracker 2.53pm

    Excellent points there. And the more the BBC do such things (not just with SNP but Corbyn and other subjects) the more people will notice them for what they are, but…I was only pointing out the minor grammatical infingement in the sentence 🙂

  61. Tam Jardine says:


    Aye- apart from all that!

    I think he is just trolling us all on Wings after last week’s studio cringe followed by the demolition Stu carried out. He must have known Stu would turn his piece inside out all over again.

  62. gordoz says:

    Think wee ginger dug caught the mood for this already this week.
    Tome for Scottish Six is long gone. Its a BBC
    Colonial distraction designed to placate and fail. (Con trick orchestrated by WM).

    Scotland needs a new impartial freeview channel for 21st century and beyond. (Like any other nation state or free territory) Till that’s achieved we are just being strung a line by complicit state broadcaster lacking professional impartiality.

  63. Vestas says:

    What’s the point in the Scottish 6 when its made by the BBC?

    They have shown by their past/current actions that the last thing they’re interested in are Scots.

    Anyway it’d just be an extended version of the current drivel with extra “SNP BAAAD!” added as Sturgeon/Salmond/whoever is compared to the latest dictator in the news.

    The BBC is a waste of space, so drivel from Torrance about that waste of space is…. 🙂

  64. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Tam Jardine (4.00) –

    ‘He must have known Stu would turn his piece inside out all over again.’

    Well, that’s one way of putting it…

  65. Brian Powell says:

    There is now an AngryTorrance tweeting all of Torrance’s ‘arguments’ and his article.

  66. David Mills says:

    Maybe we is scared that a full news at six in Scotland would find itself with journalists look to find stories and bring them to light in the exact way the BBC News six has failed to do with stories like tory election expenses issue that 32 of which are being investigated by the police but from the BBC not a word has been spoken.

  67. Graeme Doig says:

    First and last gobbledygook of his I’m ever going read. I don’t think DT is too fussy about the order words appear on the page.

    Thanks for the interpretation and dissection Rev.

    I couldn’t care less about a Scottish 6 but the more this guy tries to explain his position the more he embarrasses himself, journalism and Scotland.

  68. G H Graham says:

    It’s obvious. Torrance is pissed off because he wasn’t picked to be the anchor news reader, charged with pontificating BBC shortbread propaganda at 6:30pm.

    Can’t think of anything else worth mentioning except that it might not be in the country’s best interest anyway to have an angry walnut read out the news.

    What’s wrong with Moomin Mama? According to wikipedia, she very rarely gets cross and takes even the most distressing circumstances (such as the arrival of a comet, or being washed away by a flood) in her stride.

  69. Roboscot says:

    So David Torrance opposes a Scottish media outlet that covers international affairs but does so in a Scottish media outlet that covers international affairs.

  70. heedtracker says:

    Its going to be the exact same crew that saved the UK union and makes telly like this, Elizabeth queen of Scots, parts 1 to 1000, SNP bad, Rangers, there’s been a murder with Reevel Alderson and his perfect impression of dour old man, outside the High Court, at a hundred grand a year, and now another pregnant BBC weather girl.

  71. Tinto Chiel says:

    That was quite a dissection of Torrance’s Tosh, Rev. The fact that The Herald actually employs this guy shows clearly how far it has fallen in recent years, justifying my refusal to buy it since July 2014. An old-fashioned sub-editor would have sent him packing in days of yore.

    Somtimes I used to think of some of your brilliant forensic analyses of the more risible Yoon Goons, “Who breaks a butterfly upon a wheel?” but Tank Top Boy deserves all he gets for still trying to justify his strop and his lack of journalistic standards. He is a mere propagandist. McKenna hasn’t helped by supporting him, mind you. I expect he fears the ultimate accountability of social media too.

    Ian Brotherhood @2.13 p.m: that was a laugh. Remember the anti-women’s rights one Enfield did? Torrance and The History Woman could do a new version called, “People of Scotland, know your limits!”

  72. Tinto Chiel says:

    Just noticed these two comments which made me chortle:

    Fred, “Time is of the essence here, Jackie Bird is already looking like something off Mount Rushmore.”

    Proud Cybernat: “His words shoved so far up his keekie-winkie…..”

    It’s the way ye tell ’em.

  73. desimond says:

    I cant help but picture David Torrance standing withhis craft beer muttering the phrase “I didn’t get where I am today with

  74. wee folding bike says:

    The US or Canadian side of Mount Rushmore?

  75. robertknight says:

    At the end of the day, it matters not what you call the tea-time outpouring of SNP-bad, you just can’t polish a turd!

  76. Proud Cybernat says:

    “…you just can’t polish a turd!”

    Or a Burd.

  77. John says:

    The problem isn’t where the BBC news comes from. The problem is the BBC itself. The BBC has got to go. It is a unionist propaganda channel, always has been and always will be. The fact is we are forced to pay for a London institution one of whos central purposes is to keep us under control is a disgrace. We are taxed for access to information by the country who controls us. THAT is the real scandal.

  78. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Tinto Chiel –

    ‘People of Scotland! Know your limits!’

    Yep. That’s it nailed.

  79. Legerwood says:

    Legerwood Says:
    A short time ago there was an article by Stuart Cosgrove on the subject of a Scottish Six in Bella Caledonia.

    In the article he sketches out a possible running order of news stories for such a programme. It is worth a look:

    Tonight the BBC has a programme about the EU referendum. I have the feeling that there will be little if any mention of Scotland or NI or any interviews with politicians from either place. Wales may get a mention which is likely to include a few words from Neil Hamilton, the go-to guy in Wales on all matters UKIP.

    If I am right then the programme will lay bare everything that is wrong with the BBC – it’s London centric approach writ large.


    Labour apparently is now going to appeal the High Court decision which was in favour of letting all members vote in the leadership election. Does it get any more bizarre?

  80. Ann Rayner says:

    Can I use your comment section go flag up another, well hidden, way the BBC is short-changing Scotland. The new rules for the iPlayer allow Welsh speakers watching S4C to do so free, i e they are not required to enter the number of their TV licence before they can access this. However Gaelic speakers wanting to watch BBC Alba on the iPlayer must enter their licence number.

    This seems to me to be unfair and the only reason I can think of is that they have noticed that a lot of Scots no longer have a TV licence, for obvious reasons, and so they are bring penalised.

  81. Cuilean says:

    “God knows, readers, there’s almost nothing we want to write about less than either David Torrance or the Scottish Six.”

    Gonnae expoon, agane, thon ‘Additional Member System’ to Holyrood eleckshins (but this time in Scots)? Obleegit tae ye.

  82. Dr Jim says:

    A lot of words and a lot of noise from somebody who says he doesn’t care, and I believe him
    But what he does care about but isn’t a good enough writer to cover up is Nicola Sturgeon’s day by day by day take over of everything and making Scotland Independent by stealth before his very eyes and his empire crumbling to dust
    And she must be stopped I tell you Stopped!
    Jist admit it son, the gemme’s a bogey, yer fund oot an we awe know it

    Yer a wee Tory Bastirt n ye cannae hide it oany longer
    especially behind yon daft beard

  83. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Tam Jardine @ 14:03:

    […] the single most prominent voice in the debate on the Scottish Six is arguably David Torrance due to the platform he receives on the Herald, in the Times, on BBC television on BBC radio etc etc. And he is complaining about “interference”!

    […] For a journalist to rely on an unnamed leaked BBC document as his only evidence against the Scottish Six is revealing.

    I’m no conspiracy theorist as far as the BBC is concerned (as some of you may recall!), but I don’t believe that Torrance is acting alone here, nor that the “leak” came by him purely by chance. There are people in the BBC fighting a determined rearguard action against a “Scottish 6”, and Torrance is their chosen shill.

    The fact that the man is increasingly viewed as a joke in Scotland seems to have escaped these people. Torrance’s carefully-cultivated “neutral analyst” mask has slipped right off, and he is revealed as nothing more than a puerile BritNat propagandist. It’s positively embarrassing how he, along with all his fellow Unionists, are doing their damnedest to keep Scotland servile and dependent, while simultaneously mocking us for being “incapable”.

    As for The Herald, I don’t know why it is still giving this sad retro yoon activist any space. Didn’t it promise to support indy if there was ever a Brexit vote? Or was that just another “vow”…?

  84. msean says:

    A Scottish digital channel is what should be happening,after all,we do pay for it,and should get what we want. The real issue is control. Nobody currently ruling an empire wants to give it up.Why do we have the same presenters for decades,is there no other folk waiting for a chance?

    This could give them that chance,in all aspects of the broadcasting of a channel,though we can probably predict that others would be sent up from the imperial capital instead. 🙂

  85. Clootie says:

    I thought a Scottish news programme could report from places like South America, Asia and Australia etc which the BBC ignores apart from natural disasters and war(death seems very important to the UK national broadcaster)

    I had also hoped that we would have more news from Europe and much, much less from the USA (once again the national propaganda house must keep the right wing agenda alive).

    However my main hope was a positive slant on the Scottish nation and the potential of the generations to come – fat chance of that with the BBC in control pushing the endless tripe of my nation being too poor,stupid and small.

    We need Nationhod FIRST – Any News programme controlled (manipulated)by another nation will always be of a poor quality regardless of the time allocated and it will ALWAYS have as it’s primary objective the interest of London control.

    …as for David Torrance – his very existence and income is dependent on serving his masters down South. He has no value to them unless the union remains intact. I have yet to read an article from him with any intellectual content on the topic of Independence. He has one simple thought and even that was given to him by his paymasters in London – always follow the money. When your wallet grows fatter on following one side you can hardly expect to be considered neutral.

  86. yesindyref2 says:

    @Ann Rayner
    So there’s going to be one single Gaelic speaking BBC Alba viewer in an incredibly fast car warp factor 10 watching it from all over Scotland? Heh heh.

  87. Gail Hughes says:

    I think the problem with “political commentators” such as Torrance (I am sure others will come to mind) is that of having too little to say and too much desire to say it.

  88. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Tinto Chiel @ 16:41:

    Remember the anti-women’s rights one Enfield did? Torrance and The History Woman could do a new version called, “People of Scotland, know your limits!”

    I was reminded of that spoof of the long-haired windblown “History” Man that appeared on YouTube. Hilarious.

    Someone out there, are you listening? It’s long past time for a spoof of Weetabix Man and his pet cringe.

    After all, they say that laughter is the best medicine, and Torrance’s outbursts are fit for nothing more these days than a good long laugh.

  89. K1 says:

    I’ve found the recipe that Torrance and his Unionist pals have been using to ‘create’ their musings…

    1 Hairdryer.
    1 large shite.
    I tiny splash of pish.
    I large dollop of hubris.
    Mix the shite thoroughly with the hubris.
    Add the tiny splash of pish to the mixture and mould to the desired shape. (remembering to wear yer gloves)
    Place on baking tray.
    Bake for approx. 5 minutes at 200c
    Remove from oven.
    Switch hairdryer to ‘highest’ setting. (remembering to wear yer mask)
    Blow dry the mix until it becomes hardened and glossy in appearance:

    Producing an exquisite and perfectly formed: Polished Turd.

    Devour at your peril.

  90. Truth says:

    I never thought a tory could cringe any more, then along comes tory leaning Mr Torrance to out cringe the best.

    Hats off David, gold medal Scottish cringing in this Olympic of months.

  91. arthur thomson says:

    I think this dissection of the walnut’s weasel words is helpful. It debunks some of the myths that unionists choose to use, enabling us to understand how best we can respond them in conversation with others.

    I also think the ‘debate’ on a Scottish Six is useful. It is one of many reasons for people to think about whether Scotland is well served by UK institutions. I expect the outcome will be a win for the indy movement whatever happens.

    The present English national news, masquerading as UK news, can’t help itself but to be an argument in favour of indy. The focus on ‘team GB’ is so patently obviously a focus on England and its issues. It must be increasingly apparent to every thinking person in Scotland that Scottish issues simply don’t figure. It must also be obvious that English public services increasingly don’t measure up to those that are being provided via the SNP in Scotland. This is a real dilemma for those trying to use ‘the news’ as a propaganda exercise in GB better togetherness.

    Conversely, a Scottish Six might truly reflect Scottish perspectives (pigs might fly). Failure to do so would bring about critical reaction from the Scottish population. If a BBC Scottish Six just chose to ignore legitimate criticism they would further fan the controversy. More discussion of whether Scotland is being well served by UK institutions. More grist to the indy mill.

  92. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    K1 says:

    Devour at your peril.

    I think you are being extremely irresponsible here. Don’t you realise that hubris is a banned substance under the Political Malfeasance Act? Consumption invariably leads within a very short time to the most gross and unpleasant of after effects! =grin=

  93. Socrates MacSporran says:

    Never mind the seemingly-eternal arguments for and against “The Scottish Six”.

    The lead item on the (UK) National News at 6pm – stretched over five of the programme’s 30 minutes, was a rehash of the Story of Adam Peaty’s gold medal.

    They then went into a second item – a round-up of what had happened earlier in the day.

    This is the National News, starting at 18.00 hours. Sixteen of these 18 hours’ output on BBC1 has been exclusive Olympic Games coverage.

    Eight minutes into the programme, they left Rio, to cover the London train strike. FFS.

    I could put-up with a dedicated sports channel, particularly during the Olympics, but, this is overkill, and must be hell for those less-interested in sport than I, a semi-retired sports journalist, am.

    The lack of editorial judgement the BBC is showing is beyond belief. We are not all Olympic Games obsessives.

  94. Alison Rollo says:

    Does David Torrence really believe Scotland is completely incapable of being an independent Nation? Or is he just happy to keep taking the money from the British Establishment to tell us just how incapable we really are?!

  95. macnakamura says:

    Gail Hughes says:
    8 August, 2016 at 5:54 pm
    I think the problem with “political commentators” such as Torrance (I am sure others will come to mind) is that of having too little to say and too much desire to say it.


    … and given too much opportunity to do so.

  96. Tinto Chiel says:

    “As for The Herald, I don’t know why it is still giving this sad retro yoon activist any space. Didn’t it promise to support indy if there was ever a Brexit vote? Or was that just another “vow”…?”

    Yes, whatever happened to all that RJS? As if we didn’t know……

    Fortunately, very few give a flying Carmichael what The Herald says or does.

    An aged neighbour waiting for a knee op. had me in for a natter yesterday and was watching one of those interminable documentaries on The Rise of Hitler. It was doing quite well until The History Woman, Jill Stephenson, came on to give us the benefit of her wisdom on it all. There were no styrofoam bricks to hand so I had to grind my teeth until she was finished.

    On the bright side, now that “impartial” historians like Stephenson, Hastings and Roberts nailed their lying colours to the mast in 2014, I no longer read their works.

    As the poet said, “After such knowledge, what forgiveness?”

  97. K1 says:


    ‘Consumption invariably leads within a very short time to the most gross and unpleasant of after effects! =grin=’

    Which we all suffer insufferably in the reading of the outpourings of our cringeratti.


  98. gerry parker says:

    Just on the news about an SAS group operating in Syria.
    “These troops, unlike conventional forces, do not need parliamentary approval to operate”

    Mmmm. Who is responsible for sending them in then?

  99. Dan Huil says:

    @Ann Rayner 5:29pm

    I think the bbc under-estimates the IT savvy of the public. There will be ways of getting round the bbc’s iplayer blocking tactics. Meanwhile, don’t pay the bbc tax.

  100. Jim Morris says:

    Watching the final of the CPL this afternoon a member of the winning team from Jamaica (The Tallawahs) reminded viewers that Jamaica had celebrated their Independence Day just a few days ago and hoped to add this victory to the celebrations. The Independent Small Caribbean island of Jamaica get to have an Independence Day, while Scotland still get dominion.

  101. yesindyref2 says:

    Herald distorting the loss of the first oil decommissioning, blaming only the Scottish Govenment, neglecting to tell us that corporation tax, investment and R&D allowances are ALL reserved to Westminster, and the UK Government.

    Oh for some honest mainstream media, rather than the lying toerags we have.

  102. Brian Powell says:

    Iain McWhirter now fully supporting London MP against the Scottish Government and 50% of the electorate.

  103. heedtracker says:

    Gail Hughes says:
    8 August, 2016 at 5:54 pm
    I think the problem with “political commentators” such as Torrance (I am sure others will come to mind) is that of having too little to say and too much desire to say it.

    Its much more that the BBC wont let anyone else in on their planet toryboy BBC tv and radio. Democracy needs balance but fcuk all that, say BBC gimps.

    BBC England’s so tory its boring as hell. BBC r4 is the speaking Telegraph in particular. That crew never have any SNP on their precious BBC radio. Oftentimes it seems like SNP MP’s are just refusing to go into their multi billion quid studios but its highly unlikely.

    If they weren’t so corrupt BBC style, they would always have progressive liberal lefties facing off against toryboys like Torrance but they never do and that is straight forward political right wing corruption.

    BBC r4 news gimps had a long Corbyn monstering session this teatime news, with loads of “we hate JC don’t you” vox pop and absolutely no Corbynistas given any right to reply. BBC is either over run by the toryboys or worse, its all owned and run by toryboys that think they own a BBC with real national political power. Its not healthy and its really really boring too, which is their real crime.

  104. brewsed says:

    Dearie Me. More Torrents from Terrance. How long does it take to generate 1123 words? The Internet says anything between half an hour and a couple of hours. Let’s be generous and accept that the article took a couple of hours to knock together; or longer if typed up over a kebab whilst borrowing the wi-fi. There is nothing original in it, there are no references to corroborate the text, and, apart from a wee bit taken from Douglas Fraser, there are no quotations sourced, a task which the Internet makes really easy – just copy and paste the URL. So it is a brain dump – a scat on the page – a rant. What it is not is journalism. And it’s not even very good non-journalism. Take for example this sentence and speak it as it is written – without a pause for breath.

    “Nationalists claim this is all about strengthening the Scottish media in general, the BBC in particular and even creating more jobs for journalists but that’s a bit difficult to take seriously from individuals who have (mostly) spent the past few years constantly traducing network BBC reporters, BBC Scotland output and implying an institutional anti-Scottish bias because Jackie Bird once smiled at Alistair Darling.”

    Its awful prose and Torrents of Terrance is getting paid for it. As, presumably, he did for the dumps he did elsewhere.

    But, perhaps it is not meant to be journalism. Maybe it is click bait. Do a dump on the page, publish it and wait for the comments to roll in thus proving there is a readership. Yes, but not a paying one. Obviously the Rev.Stu paid for his copy, but that was out of the funds provided but the Wings readership. The rest of us haven’t forked out a groat; my groat went to the National.

    What upsets these journalists is that they are being exposed and the exposure is unpleasant. They make a living shedding crocodile tears, spouting mock moral outrage and regurgitating worn out tropes and then whinge and moan when their hypocrisy and inconsistencies are exposed as is done especially well here on Wings.

    Dearie Me. 357 words in twenty minutes. So 1000 words, including searching for the URL,t in a hour is quite possible

  105. heedtracker says:

    Hootsman thing on David Steel says vote NO you fools and looking like old father time, has a poll with 52,419 Votes. Kicked off midnight last night and its very nice of the Hootsman to not take it down too, at 62% YES, matching Scots Remain vote and the next, final Scottish referendum:D

    How would you vote in the event of a second referendum on Scottish independence?

    Yes62 %

    No34 %

    Unsure4 %
    52,419 Votes

  106. Finlay says:

    I don’t think a “Scottish Six” or even an entire BBC channel devoted to Scotland could work, for the same reason as to why Scotland doesn’t really work as a devolved part of the UK – it would still be considered an appendage of the same UK body and so would be dragged along, willingly or not, with the will of the UK Establishment.

    I think the only way for broadcasting to be fair in Scotland (pre-independence) is for a Scottish equivalent of the BBC to completely replace the BBC in Scotland. It would have to be funded by the Scottish Government instead of by Westminster and judging by a previous Wings article on the subject of BBC funding, I’d say that would give the “SBC” a fairly hefty budget to start off with, even without including the possibility that a lot of us who no longer contribute to BBC funding may decide that the SBC could be worth paying for.

    If the SBC wanted to broadcast BBC channels then it would simply pay the BBC for the right to broadcast those selected channels. Which is, as I understand it, exactly why you can watch BBC channels while on holiday in Spain or the USA or wherever.

    It’s pretty hard to present news in an unbiased manner, most notably in choosing what is worth broadcasting versus what is not or in choosing which topics hold most importance. The BBC is always going to be biased to the benefit of the UK Establishment, I think that to be expected and is as good as a fact. If Scotland had our own equivalent of the BBC then I think it too would inevitably be biased, though in favour of Scotland.

    Having both the BBC and SBC in existence as completely separate institutions would hopefully encourage an equilibrium between their respective natural bias, leaving the viewers to make up their own minds on issues. Currently the playing field isn’t fair because obviously the BBC has no Scottish equivalent to counteract the BBC’s “UK” view with the Scottish view on events and a channel devoted to Scotland, but still operating under the umbrella of the BBC, will never be able free itself of the UK Establishment’s influence.

  107. dakk says:

    ‘What is it that David Torrance is really so angry about?’

    Like all Scottish Yoons he is angry that he is not English of course.

    Clinging on for dear life to his British identity is the closest he can get to being English.

    Second class English by association is the best Torrance can do,and like many other Uncle Jock hacks/politicos,he makes a decent living out of his sycophancy.

    Unless of course I’m wrong and he really really loves Scotland and just desperately wants what’s best for Scotland.

  108. paul gerard mccormack says:

    Well that was what I call the very definition of the word, ‘demolition’.

    Come the time, and if given the chance, we really do need such diagnostic skills displayed against this fuckwittery.

  109. Iain More says:

    “What’s the point of a beefed-up team of specialist correspondents if you have to squeeze their reports into 30 seconds between the murder and the fitba?”

    As one of my mates who went to the Dons match in Perth said and that was murder masquerading as fitba. Well that freed up some 30 seconds. More time for some SNP BAAHD drool from the Burd etc.

  110. HandandShrimp says:

    I had a quick look at the David Steel article in the Hootsmon. I have adblock but that site is absolute murder for loading intrusive video and audio adverts so I gave up after a couple of minutes but I saw that boy David was saying that the obstacles for Scotland would be huge, absolutely ginormous …and I mean really massive because….well just because. Aye right David. So much for Liberal commitment to the EU. British nationalists one and all.

    Yoons – bringing new meaning to word defeatist every day. 🙂

  111. HaggisHunter says:

    DT’s opinionated opinions are great.
    He hasn’t noticed that feelings towards Independence have been growing not shrinking, denial and confusion keep him stagnant.
    Maybe there is a knighthood or lordship in it for him? Certainly he would be shunned by the Brit media if he was open and honest, they wouldn’t use his services.

  112. One_Scot says:

    Yeah, I know I’ve had six cans of cider, but does anyone honestly really think that even with the full weight of the British State and whole of the Yoon media against us, that we can really lose IndyRef2.

  113. Proud Cybernat says:

    British identity only goes one way. It’s a manufactured national identity to make us Celts feel part of one big happy UKOK family. But it is total bollox.

    Once in a pub in London with an Irish and Welsh guy. The Irish guy saying to the English guy we were out with. “But we’re all British!”

    The English guy just laughed at him. He knew the score.

  114. Chic McGregor says:

    I though he was going to stop twittering?

  115. yesindyref2 says:

    I think, I think I am, therefore I am, I think.

    I think, I think I am, therefore I am not David Torrance.

  116. yesindyref2 says:

    I think, therefore I am not David Torrance.

  117. HandandShrimp says:

    I though he was going to stop twittering?

    Only only Twitter

    He will still twitter in the safe environs of the media 🙂

  118. yesindyref2 says:

    Next Indy rally everyone should wear a David Torrance mask.

    I blame it on two types of gateau, and two types of cream, double – and extra thick. The last one in honour of David Torrance.

    I think I’m high on sugar – what’s his excuse?

  119. galamcennalath says:

    Proud Cybernat says:

    “British identity only goes one way. ”

    Definitely. What Englishman ever referred to himself as a South Briton?

    Yet there fools in Scotland who believe themselves to be North Britons!

    Same can be said for Union/Unionist/Unionism. It means nothing in England. They don’t feel part of a union with others in these isles. The idea never enters their minds. England/UK/Britain are interchangeable to most folks down south.

  120. Grouse Beater says:

    Finding Torrance unutterably boring, I penned weekend’s essay today in between house building and domestic chores. Amazing what you can get done when not spitting blood at some anti-Scotia numbskull.

    Mediterranean weather promised for Friday. Sounds a good day for filling more gabion baskets with rock.

    Fred Flintstone

  121. Grouse Beater says:

    Am I wrong or has BBC’s and ITV’s coverage of the Edinburgh International Festival been shrunk to make maximum room for the ‘Lympics?

    What I’ve seen so far can fit in Phelps’ Speedos.

  122. Brian MacLeod says:

    I don’t want a BBC Scotland News at any time.

    I was the entire BBC edifice closed down. It is corrupt, Corrupt because it is infested with Blairite nepotism. Corrupt because it has been protecting star paedophiles and their enablers for decades.

    We need a new from the ground up Scottish broadcaster responsible directly to the Scottish people.

    Delenda est BBC.

  123. Vronsky says:

    I hope you realise, Rev, that the biggest platform Torrance has is here, with you. Without you, most people wouldn’t have heard of him. The lad owes you a beer or three.

  124. Andrew McLean says:

    BBC radio drive time, farming subsidies, “but how would the subsidies be affected by a second independence referendum” interviewee, ” well as we are not discussing this as it hasn’t happened we can only discuss what is in front of us,” BBC propaganda merchant, ” but if there were, or could be how would that affect the industry,? Interviewee, “we are practical people and can deal with anything, but as we are discussing the brexit negotiations we want to ensure we get the best deal possible”, BBC propaganda merchant, “why won’t you say SNP bad, that’s why you’re here you idiot! Now any more of that and you won’t be asked back!
    Next interview on pipe band championship, astonishing not one question on the next independence referendum? Why not?

  125. Lochside says:

    Torrance is a paid glove puppet. A mouth on a stick. David Mundell’s ex ‘aide’, he is part of the British State’s network of paid pimps working in concert, in the media, to keep Scotland subordinate.

    Conspiracy theorist?…yes I am. The reason?..Britain/UK has a track record of oppression in all its ex-colonies and remaining ones,throughout history. At’home’, its security services have infiltrated trade unions, political parties and protected paedophile rings in the BBC, Westminster and Ireland (e.g.Kincorra Boys’ home) in order to ensure its malevolent control.

    Do you doubt it? Consider just how inept, intellectually shallow and stupidly narcisistic Torrance really is. What professional,legitimate media business would employ him?..but then we’re talking about BBC Scotland ( Glen Campbell, Douglas Fraser, Jackie Bird, Eleanor Bradford etc.) and the Herald ( McWhirter two faces, McKenna post sitter etc.).

    Consider that he appears frequently on BBC Shortbread with David ‘No Surrender’ Clegg of the Record. It is no coincidence that the ‘chatterati’ on the Scottish media are universally Unionist( exclude Cosgrove) and disdainful of us the 50%+ of the Scottish public. It is by design that all the newspapers, except the ‘National’ are prepared to commit commercial suicide with outright Unionist propaganda along with the centrally controllee BBC.

    We know now that the British Civil Service at the highest level was mobilised to defeat us in the REF. We know that Cameron pulled every string with big business and with International leaders to defeat us. Even to the extent of requesting Sony not to show ‘outlander’ tv series.

    Torrance is a paid shill, who once we defeat the UK, will disappear up his own fundament and end in obscurity . When the history of Scotland’s struggle is written, he will achieve the immortality he craves as being on a list of ludicrous paid ("Quizmaster" - Ed)s who emulated their predecessors the ‘parcel of rogues ‘ of 1707.

  126. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    I can understand the reluctance of some here to the idea of a “Scottish 6”. Yes, of course it would be far better to have an SBC, but let’s face it, we’re not likely to see that happen this side of indy.

    However you have to think why it is that Unionists to a man and woman hate the notion with a vengeance. Someone upthread mentioned exactly the right word: “defeatist”. Not only do these PSBs refuse to believe that Scotland can handle the normal panoply of civic matters perfectly well, they grasp at every opportunity they possibly can to prevent Scotland from demonstrating that it can.

    That is the significance of the “Scottish 6”, apart of course from the paradoxical view they also take that the BBC “national” news is free of bias but a “Scottish” one would inevitably be under the thumb of the SNP.

    It almost doesn’t matter that the output of Scottish-produced main news programme might initially be as skewed as it is now, the mere fact that it’s demonstratably possible would show up the yoon defeatist lie. Scotland can do. That is what they fear.

    And I still harbour the hope that an up-crewed “Scottish 6” might begin to flex its muscles and assert itself from London influence. Clearly Unionists (and some Beeb London execs) fear that possibility also.

  127. Sinky says:

    Eric Joyce on the six groups of voters (despite the link title) we need to convince to win YES vote next time.

    There will never be a better time to persuade Labour supporters that they will never see another Labour government at Westminster as proposed boundary changes will make it even harder than their latest Blairite self destructive activities.

  128. Maria F says:

    Thank you for this very interesting article Rev. It has given me quite a lot to think about.

    There is something about this whole thing with Torrance, the BBC, the outrage about Scottish Six among diehard unionists that smells fishy to me. It all feels like operating parts of the same thing: a covert political maneuver.

    Every time I see the Scottish Six mentioned I wonder Why now? The BBC is already discredited, so what is the point?

    The BBC doesn’t give a fig about complaints about bias or petitions. Licence payers may be leaving in droves but the BBC doesn’t bend an inch. So, why a program exclusive for the Scottish audience now?

    I don’t buy it.

    There has been ample opportunities for this before an awful lot of people had lost faith in the BBC. Those that have given up the licence hardly are going to get one back now because of the Scottish Six, are they? So why now? What has changed since the Brexit vote?

    Well, nothing in the BBC that I can see apart from a few less licences. But an awful lot has changed in the unionist political camp: their credibility is now completely trashed because Brexit has demolished the last of the main supporting pillars of the BT raison d’etre: security for the people of Scotland that their lives will be better if we remain together. Brexit discredits that with a passion.

    Does anybody else find it a hilarious coincidence that is precisely the diehard unionists like Torrance (surviving thanks to the BBC and MSM) who are attempting to trash the Scottish Six? And not in a quite way either. They are quite vociferous in their claims that their rejection is purely politically motivated. Amazing, isn’t it? I think it is designed to sting and making us react against them in revenge.

    As Stu presented previously, Torrance can be quite insulting, outrageous and provoking and I personally think his character has been carefully designed that way.

    It may be the out of fashion tank top, the ties, the lack of smiles, the retro vinyl records in his room and the old furniture what looks to me like going to excessive lengths to look like somebody very ‘serious’ and very ‘conservative’. I don’t know, but the man looks like a total fake to me. I am sorry lad if this is not the case.

    Usually when you are told to do something by somebody you deeply dislike, you do the opposite. Here Torrance’s role is to seed the idea of the ‘Scottish Six’ by appealing to independence supporters wanting revenge on the prat.

    And then of course here comes the piece of resistance: the most hated political boggey man since Thatcher is who is to be blamed for all the affair: Blair, who could be any worse? . Now this development will certainly hook those independence followers that don’t give a toss about a nobody like Torrance and cannot waste any of their time entertaining his nonsense even for a laugh (ie the older ones) but they do blame New Labour for stealing their party. They may not know (or care) who Torrance is, but they certainly know who Blair is. So, Blair says no Scottish Six? Well, we will see about that.

    It was seeing the name of Blair mentioned what made me immediately think that the whole thing is being staged for political purposes and not for the benefit of the BBC.

    The Scottish Six may or may never be released but the whole issue/debate/argument around it is in my opinion a Trojan horse designed to deflect attention from Brexit and indiref2 by annoying and dividing the independence supporters. Torrance in his tanktop and the diehard unionists are the cannon fodder pushing the Trojan horse.

    I think this could be dangerous, because if they find something that can cause a divide among the independence followers they are going to exploit it to their advantage.

    I honestly believe that we should not fall for any of this. It is obvious to a 5 year old that anything that can bring more jobs to Scotland, more investment, more involvement with the public and the opportunity of more appropriate programs to the viewers can only be a good thing.

    That is why I believe the irrational and undemocratic argument of the unionists opposing the Scottish Six seems far too exaggerate for being real and I think it is designed to create rage amongst us to divide us and to distract us from brexit and indiref2.

    I think we should deprive them of the pleasure of our attention.

  129. dakk says:

    ‘Yet there fools in Scotland who believe themselves to be North Britons!’

    Most Yoon Scots living in Scotland like to overtly demonstrate a posture of magnanimous concern for England’s welfare relative to Scotland,(tuition fees/no free prescriptions).

    If they showed half the same concern/interest for Scotland Wales,or any other country’s welfare I might have slightly more belief in their ‘magnanimity’.

    I’m certain English people in England do not have the same unhealthy interest in Scotland’s affairs.

    Apart that is from the sensibledave types who show their concern by denigrating and sniping at anything and everything regarding Scottish self governance.

    The Scottish Yoon cringe manifests itself in an anal overcompensation of Anglophilia.

    They are totally transparent to me,though I do believe that many are not aware themselves of how their inadequacy of not being English has distorted their perspectives.

    Torrance is just one such cringer in an abyss of Yoon cringe.

  130. yesindyref2 says:

    In all seriousness, if Torrance were an agent of the British State, he would be a hell of a lot more competent at his job.

  131. Tinto Chiel says:

    Lochside: I would agree with pretty much all you said. The problem is: what’s going to change next time? I can only hope they can’t reuse all the lies they used last time, e.g. Vote no to stay in the EU.

    Sinky: Joyce is worth listening to, despite his history. After all, we have all made mistakes and we need to understand how to get the biddable Labour voters to see the only future for their party.

    Oh, and ditch Kezia, of course.

  132. JLT says:

    Torrance is determined to have a fight with someone. It just seems he intends to fight everyone in Scotland.

  133. Paula Rose says:

    Never mind that Torrance this little fundraiser could do with a torrent of cash, please help if you can…

  134. Still Positive. says:

    I had my last copy of the Herald on Boxing Day last year and I don’t miss it at all.

    When I was teaching I used to cut out Herald articles as a teaching aid.

    On the very few occasions I managed to get to the end of a Torrance article, I often thought: what was that about – it rarely made sense. I would never have used his articles as a teaching aid.

    In fact, latterly, I rarely got beyond the first column and eventually stopped reading him altogether.

  135. Thepnr says:

    So who is it that decided to gift the people of Scotland an hour a day of news where you are? The Westminster culture committee, that’s who. Comprising 6 Tories, 4 Labour and 1 SNP MP.

    Anyone really believe that this was a gift?

    Of course it wasn’t, it is a sop to the Nationalists, “you get yer bloody news so stop complaining of BBC bias”.

    Utter bullshit and just like the Vow, the Scottish 6 will be the most Independent and unbiased news in the entire world for you Jocks.

    What more could you want, now shut up and eat yer cereal.

  136. Thepnr says:

    Westminster culture committee in panic mode.

    “Half an hour of UKOK propaganda Project Fear every night isn’t working. What to do?”

    6 Blue Tories and 4 Red Tories discuss the problem while the SNP member went to the loo.

    “Lets double it to an hour and call it the Scottish 6 which they have been after for 20 years. Yeah, that’ll work, make it so.”

  137. Molly says:

    Parochial ? How parochial is it discussing one TV show for twenty years?

    David Torrance is clutching at straws and he knows it.

    Maybe a petition for the people of Wales , N Ireland and Scotland to demand parity from the BBC would be more effective ?

  138. heedtracker says:

    Macternan says dont vote JC there on BBC Newsnight, BBC ligger Macternan v two Corbynistas. What was missing, absolutely fuck all Scotland involved whatsoever. How the 2014 BetterTogether freak show must laugh at sucka Scots.

  139. Lochside says:

    yesindyref2: ‘ all seriousness, if Torrance were an agent of the British State, he would be a hell of a lot more competent at his job’……competent like McTernan, Davidson, the whole BBC gang aforementioned, Gordon Brown etc.?

    The point is: they are incompetent, yes, but they are the best that the Brits can muster. But it’s been enough so far to fool half our population with fear and disinformation.

    Tinto Chiel: you are right..they are and will continue to try to use the same old shite..butby making the waverers amongst our people aware of the collusion involved and the people who are doing will enable us to bring the whole lot down.

    Many on this site have ‘come over’ after being conned, but once the scales fell from their eyes, they stopped believing people and institutions that they once revered. Once you see Torrance not just as a fool, but as a paid servant of the State who struggles to lie coherently then the pattern emerges.

    To go back to the oft used tag of ‘conspiracy theorists’ thrown at cybernats by Brittwats like’s another method to silence real fact based dissent. Conspiracies happen all the time ( REV discussed this before on another thread)..but Lee Harvey Oswald may have seemed like the lone nut who snuffed JFK until you consider Jack Ruby…It;s the connections that count not the individuals themselves , no matter how inept.

  140. Thepnr says:

    If Scotland had a one hour STV news program every night would it be better than what we have now?

    Naw, and neither will the BBC’s. A Trojan horse.

  141. Molly says:

    Also as for ‘ technical difficulties ‘ .

    Anyone who watched the coverage of the attack in France could see the interviewees were basically talking into their phones ( a sort of selfie) direct to the “big BBC news”.

    Plus I’m sure I saw Kheredine ‘live’ from Rio tonight reporting as he does from many of Andy Murrays games around the World, so what is the problem?

    The problem for BBC Scotland appears to be the lack of will to move into this century and be what it should be a modern national broadcaster.

    I see by the way, the BBC are to make modern versions of classic comedies such as ‘ Are you being served?’ and Porridge.

    Yup we’re a modern forward looking bunch at this rate , it’ll soon be 1982

  142. mike cassidy says:

    David Steel’s article archived.

    Big white spaces, but he is 78, you know!

  143. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Sinky @ 21:59,

    Thanks for the Joyce link. Interesting read, since he’s looking at crucial target segments for indy.

    However, I don’t buy everything he says there. We should of course be open to conversion of anyone, but some groups are more likely to offer fertile ground than others.

    It seems to me that virtually everyone within the LibDems who was persuadeable has already been persuaded, and all that’s left is a residue that is as rigidly BritNat as the Tories. Surprisingly, given that Scottish autonomy was a core belief of theirs for nigh on a century. But not their first abandonment of principle, alas. (Concerning which, the latest defeatist award must surely go to David Steel for his recent radio interview.) Federalism is dead, but they hang on to it in desperate denial. I don’t see much headway there.

    Corbynistas will cling to the Union till the bitter end, I believe, since he must keep Scotland in play if he is to have any hope of winning the next UKGE. He doesn’t have a hope in hell of winning anyway, but he’ll have to have us “go over the top” for him in a repeat futile disaster of 2016. We don’t have enough time to wait for these people to finally wise up, I fear.

    As for Labour politicians, oh for anyone among them with an ounce of courage and principle! Waiting timourously for a change in the wind, jeez, help me! I guess their main usefulness might be as “mine canaries”; if they start switching, you can be sure the game is well and truly up for the Union! I think old Henry might just show up the lot of them yet. Still, Joyce knows these people far better than I, and he found it possible to change.

    Ordinary Labourites seem to offer far better potential. If only they can get away from their accursed anti-SNP tribalism. Somehow we have to find a way to help them with that. A truly broad-based indy movement should help. Allow them the room to believe that there is still a future for their party in an independent Scotland. Federalism is the latest straw to which some are clutching, but being recent converts, their attachment to that wheeze may well be rather weak.

    The soft-no “middle Scots” are also open to persuasion, I believe, provided a sound economic case is made for indy and they are not frightened off by an indy movement that gives the impression of being positively itching to create a new Cuba or DDR on their doorstep. Brexit is a game-changer for these people. It has truly shaken their complacency and the storm hasn’t even properly started yet. (In which connection, please note: EU membership is the one thing that the UK can’t deploy another “vow” against. It’s not within London’s purview.) So a fairer distribution of wealth within a truly reformed economic system, yes, but not loudhailer promises of a mad dash to unrestrained loony leftism, please.

  144. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Whoops, in my last posting re UKGE, I should of course have written 2015, not 2016.

    And just for good measure, Steel appears to have repeated his vile radio Yoonster EU propaganda in an interview with The Times. (Thanks mike cassidy for the archived link.) What brings him out into the daylight right now, I wonder?

    As if repetition anyway makes his miserable cringing case any stronger!

  145. Chic McGregor says:

    A comprehensive unauthorised biography.


  146. CameronB Brodie says:

    Robert J. Sutherland
    Perhaps these Corbynistas would be supportive of Scotland’s “right to development”, if pitched correctly? They would appear to be the right audience for such a human-rights focused, egalitarian and emancipating ‘ideology’.

  147. Robert J. Sutherland says:


    I wish you were right. But if it were so, would they all not have been convinced a long time ago? Corbyn doesn’t seem to be any more clued-up over Scotland than anyone else in the Labour hierarchy down south. Labour have in the past won a UKGE regardless of Scotland’s votes (have they not?), but with those boundary changes looming? I think in such desperate straits, party advantage will trump all.

    Unless the wheels fall off the whole wagon, of course. If there’s a split, that’s a whole new ballgame…

    But the case has to be made anyway. Every single conversion is welcome.

  148. CameronB Brodie says:

    Robert J. Sutherland
    I suppose you are right.

    Surely someone out there is concerned with social justice? Won’t they support Scotland’s “right to development”?

  149. carjamtic says:

    ‘It sucks’ that he has no direct involvement in the new design crenellations of PQ; but using his ‘fuzzy logic’ as always, he will attempt to ‘blow’ some negative “journalistic influence” onto the debate(it worked so well the last time), but like, so many from the BT camp their ‘arguments’ have “stalled”, ‘fuzzy logic’ is in fact ‘failed logic’, tweeter’s using, normal conventional logic and the WBB, have found them out, big time. (Thanks Rev.)

    We see,he has been on his ‘hack investigative’ travels to the Americas, in search of the infamous Bogotá Bracelet story (maybe get a piece published in the “Sport” and who knows where that could lead)a great train robber perhaps or better still, a top Scot’s golfer is married to a Mexican.…ching ching that’ll do it…

    Travelling alone he ponders to himself, who exactly are, the “undeserving poor” and who precisely are the “deserving” their ravaged faces, their vacuous voices, if only he could tell them apart, finally concluding, with all the condescending ease of Commodus, those ‘working class’ types he watches on “A life of Grime” are definitely “not deserving” (tapping a reminder into his phone, ‘discuss with the dirty digger’ over a seven courser at Momofuku Ko’s and don’t forget the expenses receipt).

    Now then, where is that flight attendant, need stock up on duty free, some Cuban’s, hand rolled of course, some fine Bourbon whiskey…No problem Sir and would Sir like another, complimentary glass of port?….American Express?
    That will do nicely….Thank you Sir and have a nice day.

    Another note to phone; need to buy some new boots. Cowboy, Indian, Denver or Furry….heehee good one, will tweet that….oh bother….if it wasn’t for those damn cybernats I would have got away with it.…how you get a green card anyway….


  150. Derek Cameron says:

    Loath as I am to see any more Torrance vacuity on show it would be illustrative to see Cosgrove debate him on this subject. The gulf in class would be like Ali v Richard Dunn .

  151. Vambomarbeleye says:

    Thank you for enlightening me. Until I read this article. I thought the Scottish six was a football league.
    You know like the queens Eleven.
    In my defence. The only time I have been at football matches. Was when I was dragged kicking and screaming to play in the band at half time.
    On the odd occasion when I actually had to play football as part of a sports afternoon. Then to my shame. I always played the man. If I actually got the ball it was a bonus and a miracle. I was also banned from playing hockey. What do you mean. You have given me a stick and I can’t hit any one with it. I did end up fencing epee at Olympic level.
    I once sat on a flight from Amsterdam to Glasgow beside Peirre van Hooijdonk. Not having a clue who he was. Nice guy and his partner spoke pure Glesga although Dutch.

  152. CameronB Brodie says:

    @ Sarah Boyack
    Won’t you support Scotland’s “right to development”, or is this another developmental concept that is beyond your ken? Looked up “creative destruction” yet?

    Which leads me to wonder whether you were faking it when you were a planning lecturer….Mmmm.

  153. defo says:

    Same as having a ‘Scottish’ Mail, Express…

    Or maybe not.

    Something which diminishes the London establishments power to set and control the narrative, at now of all times, isn’t likely to happen.

    Personally, I favour vicious, no holds barred humour as the tool to finish off this beast. (and many others)
    Frankie Boyle speaketh with much wisdom, for instance.

  154. CameronB Brodie says:

    @ Sarah Boyack
    Perhaps you could take the time to explain the semiotic theory of space and place to Mr. H @ the BBC?

  155. mealer says:

    Morning all.Remember to have a little conversation today.Thats what will bring us independence.

  156. Luigi says:

    mealer says:

    9 August, 2016 at 7:06 am

    Morning all.Remember to have a little conversation today.Thats what will bring us independence.

    Indeed. And please – don’t expect sudden conversions. The trick is to keep gently chipping away at people. Plant little seeds of doubt (and possibility) in their minds. It will all come to fruition at the right time. Only go full steam if the other person asks you about independence and really wants to know. If you take an opportunity to speak first, then go gentle. No need for bible thumpers.

    And don’t fret abpout missed opportunities – learn from them. 🙂

  157. Luigi says:

    Jeepers. An hour long BBC program on BREXIT last night (presented by Laura wots her face?) and no mention of Scotland. Not one single mention of Scotland. Do we exist? The biggest constitutional crisis in 70 years and they cannot even bear to mention it. They do not want to acknowledge the seriousness (for them) of Scotland voting REMAIN. Just ignore them and they will go away? Aye, Auntie, we will go away, soon enough, and we will be taking our country with us. 🙂

  158. Effijy says:

    I have spent the last few days in France, and as my French is not all that it could be, I tunes into the BBC World Service news.

    Again I have got to say the Channel is absolutely dire!

    I fear this garbage is another package of political bias, this time on a more international level, that will be partly financed by Scottish License payers.

    I had hoped to catch a glimpse of Andy Murray leading out the UK team, some shots from his first round match, and general video footage of the opening ceremony.

    Although I would have a look for up to an hour, morning, noon, and night, all that I seen was some external film footage of the Firework display, and from there anything else shown was in photographs.
    It also seems to be that Andy Murray must be camera shy?

    I persevered over 4 days, over which their banner headlines remained with the same 4 day old headlines and stories?

    For 4 days, almost on the hour, they showed the videos and reported on the Sky Dive from 25,000 feet, Jean-Claude Van Damme walking out of a TV interview.
    These stories had credibility on day one, perhaps it could be shown on day two, if it was broadcast late on day one, but a main story at least 4 days on the trot?

    The main reason for the “Service” is to provide the BBC’s biased report on our international neighbours, as directed by Westminster, so that you can be indoctrinated in who you must believe is Good Guy, Bad Guy.

    Yet another reason to Kill off this brain washing service, or at least stop threatening UK citizens who do not wish to pay license fees for force fed misinformation.

    PS At home this morning, I’ve seen the BBC feature Tom Daley’s Bronze medal featured 6 times in the last 90 minutes. I take it he doesn’t have any Scottish Connection

    Many Thanks to the Thousands of WoS posters who have signed the petition against Blatant BBC Bias!
    It now stands at 90,706, and growing.

    Next stop 91,000!

  159. Tom Kane says:

    Superb title for an article, Stu.

    Ultimately, I think it is a pointless exercise – BBC Scotland hasn’t known Scotland since Thatcher. Their disgraceful attitude to the Scottish Parliament, their squandering of Scottish licence fees, their unionist bias, … They are nothing much more than a unionist thinktank and gravy-train. In that world, Torrance’s scribblings are valuable to them.

    But to nobody else. My guessing is that in 2 years time, if a Scottish 6 appears, it will be because of Scottish independence.

  160. Macart says:

    Ach the wee boy craves attention and uses the independence support to gain some notoriety. He can string words together, but not critical thought or analysis as has been been pointed out several times, most notably by those he tends to write about. His natural political bias may just colour his writing somewhat as well.

    In other words he talks shite and the only folks who take his nonsense seriously, or are indeed likely to believe his guff aren’t exactly friends of either the independence movement, the idea of Scotland as a nation state or the current Scottish government. In fact they probably think Scotland is a bit rubbish and unworthy to boot.

    Y’know… cringers. 😀

    Long and short of it? He made a mahoosive arse of himself in public. Threw a stroomph at being called on it and then went into flounce factor ten writing columns on why folks should take him seriously. Oh and why twitter and cybernats are just simply horrible.

    Puir wee sowel that he is.

  161. Sassenach says:

    Luigi at 7-32

    Yes, I agree, not a mention of Scotland and the biggest constitutional crisis we may cause!!

    The BBC, once again, excelling itself in demonstrating how to insert your head up your own rectum. Pfftt

  162. Macart says:


    Great sample as usual Nana. That LSE link is a goodun and well worth a read. Mr Faguet doesn’t miss and hit the wall in his appraisal of the situation.


  163. finnz says:

    With Cochrane now missing from the Telegraph, will Torrance now be drafted in as the token Scot to cow-tow to his Establishment masters with a weekly column describing the goings-on in the provinces. With added bile…

    All couched in a language only he can understand and free from the embarrassment of his prose being challenged within the (now removed) comments facility.

  164. gordoz says:

    Here’s one for future work Rev.

    Never mind distraction of Scot 6 “Whatever happened to Isobel Fraser ?”

    Now there’s a real question for the Colonial Channel ?

  165. gordoz says:

    Oh and whatever happened to Shelley Jof ….no wait never mind.

  166. Tam Jardine says:

    A wee bit of fun for a Tuesday morning for any students of history. On the “British Together” Facebook page there is a really funny piece gushing about an action ‘on this day’ in 1588- a skirmish won by the English navy against the Spanish Armada (the Battle of Gravelines)

    How is this pre union battle relevant to Scotland?

    “If the Spanish had taken over England the rest of Britain would have known about it in short order!”

    Interesting take on the 16th century. Wasn’t Mary beheaded by Elizabeth just one year earlier? And Henry VIII had launched a campaign of death, fire and destruction which laid waste to lothian, the borders and Fife in the middle of the 16th century? Including crushing defeat at Pinkie Cleugh? And before that the crushing defeat at Flodden?

    I’m not sure if the “British Together” message was particularly relevant in those days.

  167. Sinky says:

    New tactic by BBC Radio Shortbread this morning.

    Instead of interveiwing local MSP Alasdair Allan who is reoorted in the National on UK cuts to emergency towing vessels after oil rig ran aground they had a former leader of Highland Council.

    When doing their usual report on exam results we had Labour Council leader Frank McAveety as guest of honour – someone who should not be allowed near schoolgirls – rather than the Education Secretary as government is getting all the blame from BBC for poor educational standards etc.

    Is this a scheme to boost local councils at expense of Scottish government?

  168. galamcennalath says:

    The Independent

    “The statistical probably of Labour forming a majority government at the next election – to the nearest percentage point – is zero, while the most likely outcome on current showing is that the Conservatives will come back with an outright majority of 90”

    …. if Scotland isn’t out of the UK by then, we are indeed absolute fools!

  169. galamcennalath says:

    Luigi says:

    ” An hour long BBC program on BREXIT last night …. and no mention of Scotland”

    Thought about watching it. Now I’m glad I didn’t!

    Brexit was always all about England – flexing her nationalism and seeking her independence.

    They won. They got their independence. Now we just need to let them go off on their merry way to wherever. We ain’t going with them!

  170. Fred says:

    As there’s a deficit of Slab MP’s at Westminster to provide handy quotes to Fleet Street on matters Caledonian, the likes of Torearse helps fill the gap! Murray can only do so much. Wonder if he checks his Wings fan-mail?

  171. Nana says:


    I’m playing catch up with a pile of articles built up in my inbox. Some were too depressing to link. I did put up a load on the ‘until your ship comes in’ thread but forgot to mention at the time d’oh!

    Got sent a youtube link last night asking for the arrest of oor Nicola. Some mad ukipper astrology nut I think. Blimey it is worrying these people are out there and just hope Nicola is being protected.

    Re the state of tory Britain, was chatting to a friend on Friday who was at a retirement function some time ago where there was a number of ex policemen present. Her partner got into conversation with one who had some worrying things to say in regards to the direction of travel in England to do with policing and privatised security as well as prisons. Particularly worried about the likes of G4S being handed more contracts.

    He also had some words of warning regarding the broadcasting services, stressing state control is the tory aim. Airbrushing of any dissent, protests etc and not giving credence or airtime to other political parties and we are seeing that more and more.

    What has happened to the tory election fraud scandal, is it even being investigated and now the child abuse enquiry being undermined yet again and last night we learnt that parliamentary approval for war is not required or so say the bbc.

    I worry what else is being done behind our backs.

  172. galamcennalath says:

    Tam Jardine says:

    “I’m not sure if the “British Together” message was particularly relevant in those days.”

    Interesting comment. I think it shows an underlying mindset that England=Britain and that has always been. When they think of Betty’s state authorised pirates beating up the Spanish Armada, they perhaps imagine the RN of today in action defending a UK.

  173. Macart says:


    I worry what else is being done behind our backs.

    The same things they’ve been doing for generations Nana. The only variance has been transparency, or rather visibility.

    In today’s digital age, the establishments ability to control the message and the messenger has been shaken to its core by the internet and social media.

    We simply see more, find more, communicate more and challenge more than in times past. The plain fact of the matter is the establishment have ALWAYS behaved in this manner. Its who and what they are.

  174. Dr Jim says:

    I just thought I’d post this if for no other reason there might still be Yoons out there who believe the BBC weather map about Scotland being a teeny weeny insignificant nothing of a teeny wee region up north somewhere

    Scotland: 30,270 square miles
    Northeren Ireland: 5,345…
    Wales: 8,016…..
    England: 50,350….

    Imagine that

  175. Capella says:

    Alex Salmond is on Great Lives this afternoon, 4.30 Radio 4. He is talking about Thomas Muir, father of Scottish Democracy.

  176. galamcennalath says:

    @Dr Jim

    Also … the half way point between Muckle Flugga and Isles of Scilly is Lanarkshire.

  177. Nana says:


    I would like to thank Lindsay Bruce at ayemail for delivery of bag and badges, flags and sticker, and a few moments ago my gold wings!

    A special thank you to wingers who donated to buy this for me. I’m like a big kid on Christmas morn!

  178. Tinto Chiel says:

    Going for an overnight to Bute so will try some Mealer-Luigi “conversations” to sow doubt in the minds of any Yoonsters I meet. Mind you, I’ll be tooled up with the Rev’s WBlkB and ronnie anderson’s Scottish Passport, two excellent ways of breaking the ice and beginning subversion.

    Haven’t been to the island before but there is, apparently, a large Italian-speaking enclave in a town called Rossi, so my mediaeval Tuscan may come in handy at last.

    Anyone on the 1500 ferry from Wemyss Bay, I’ll be the one in the gabardine coat.

  179. louis.b.argyll says:

    Your excellent article above, Rev, raises multiple questions about the QUALITY OF JOURNALISM.

    Did ANYONE at the Herald ACTUALLY READ the article before printing it…?

    I’d suspect not.. as there may be even worse writers than Torrance on staff, a quick scan for typos..and thinking it was quite good work, as it seemed to match their bosses views on various issues.

    All articles in the Herald are now suspicious.

  180. Effijy says:

    It seems very apt that Torrance has the initials DT, the
    abbreviation of:
    Delirium Tremens (DTs) a rapid onset of confusion usually caused by threats to Unionism, or from alcohol.
    When it occurs, it is often three days into the withdrawal symptoms and lasts for two to three referendums.

    People may also see or hear things other people do not!

    Physical effects may include shaking, shivering, irregular heart rate, and sweating. Occasionally, a very high body temperature or seizures may result in a dearth of unbiased

    Anti-Scottishness may can abate the condition for short periods, but it can be the death of the addict if they endure a complete withdrawal.

  181. winifred mccartney says:

    Well done Nana can’t think of anyone more deserving of Gold Wings- still reeling from the link of the whistle blower regarding child abuse cover ups – thank goodness now for the power of social media – hopefully much more will be brought out into the open and people will speak up- badness/evil only survives in darkness and secrecy.

    Keep up the good work all you wonderful wingers out there and thank you to you all.

  182. JET Jockey says:

    There was a march of estate workers, gamekeepers,beaters,ghillies, ect on the BBC news marching through a village North/East Scotland Edzell I believe, was this a protest march? a demonsration of some kind, a political motivated movement? or what, I am at a complete loss as to understand what it was all about,I could not see any banners or flags and not one politician, can anyone through some light on the subject and what it was all about!!!

  183. heedtracker says:

    Rancid The Graun says Murdoch henchman’s a BBC star apparently. If the BBC toryboy freak out had anyone progressive liberal, let alone extreme left, balancing the Ligger’s Murdochian hard core conservative grind…

    “BBC presenter Andrew Neil says he is happy to have his salary made public – but only if it is made clear how hard he works for his six-figure pay cheque.

    Neil’s comments follow the publication of report by the Commons culture select committee last week that said that the BBC should reveal the salaries of all stars paid more than £143,000.”

    They probably think their BBC Scotland bunker stuffed with red tories is balance, teamGB style.

  184. Chic McGregor says:

    Dr Jim
    There are some rational instances where a distorted map can be to some extent justified. For example, where a company has a chain of branches throughout Great Britain they may want to distort the map to maintain approximate density of named branches printed (to maximise type size used/readability to available printing space). One example of that is TSB, although a company might do well reflect on possible effect on customer base of any such action. Distortion too, on something like say a stylized rail network map may also make sense in terms of paper usage. Or on say an electoral seat map, where population density is arguably paramount.

    However, in the particular case of a weather map, it makes absolutely no scientific sense whatsoever to distort a map on a population density basis. The weather does not care how many branches of the TSB or how many railway stations a land mass has.

    Worse than that, it is positively misleading. Atlantic systems are circular in form for the most part. But with the BBC weather map distortion, that circle becomes an egg shape.

    So, for example, if it had isobars on it, they would appear to be relatively closer together in the North than in the South even if that were not actually the case and since the observer is meant to assess potential wind strength from the closeness together of isobars this may lead to an inaccurate interpretation due simply to that distortion. Ditto for wind direction.

    Whereas it makes no scientific sense, in terms of weather, to ‘zoom up’ one area of a map compared to another based on the number of people living there, there is, however, one other property of a land mass which can locally change weather conditions to some degree of significance from those otherwise ambient to the incoming Atlantic weather system. That is the land topography. Where there are mountains or more particularly where there is a mix of highland and lowland areas, some amplification of that area might be justifiable on a meteorological reporting basis due to local effects of topography (rain shadow, lee effects, temperature as a function of altitude etc.).


    In other words, from a meteorological stand point, if any ‘zooming in’ on a particular area was merited, it would be on Scotland.

  185. heedtracker says:

    JET Jockey says:
    9 August, 2016 at 10:53 am
    There was a march of estate workers, gamekeepers,beaters,ghillies, ect on the BBC news marching through a village North/East Scotland Edzell I believe, was this a protest march?

    Probably a celebratory festival of glorious 12th stuff, where thousands of toryboys turn the Highlands into an open air slaughter house, shooting anything that moves in front of them, in a Highlands kept bare of any life at all by setting hillsides and moors on fire, also killing everything.

    Meanwhile, the rest of teamGB pays some money to the RSPCA and RSPB style animal welfare charities, all sponsored and headed by the queen, who along with the rest of the Firm, turn the Highlands into an open air slaughter house, shooting anything that moves in front of them, on hills and moors that are routinely set on fire to kill anything alive and so on.

    Its a great British tradition and all wrapped in toryboy BBC style guff about how really weally wild the Highlands are and as per usual, fronted by just another Torrancesque style cringer twerp, sorry British twerp.

  186. mike cassidy says:

    Effijy 7.38

    BBC World News.

    An explanation from the horse’s mouth.

    “And while the Government will be helping to pay the bills – editorial control remains entirely with the BBC.”

    Never doubted it for a second, old chap!

  187. galamcennalath says:

    Chic McGregor says:

    ” … from a meteorological stand point, if any ‘zooming in’ on a particular area was merited, it would be on Scotland.”

    Good point. Given our exposure to the Atlantic, more northerly position, and mountains, Scotland literally gets more weather. More varied, more extreme.

    We should also remember that, taking into account our islands, Scotland is spread over a LARGER area of the planet than England.

    The BBC’s weather map is political. There is no other sensible explanation.

  188. galamcennalath says:

    Nana says:
    at 11:06 am

    Grouse shooting. Interesting.

    “As well as salaries paid to workers, wider tourism spend from visiting sportsmen and women means the 2016 grouse season will be worth £32 million to the Scottish economy in a four-month window.”

    I found elsehwhere … “Scottish “grouse moors” cover an estimated area of approximately 1 million hectares”

    … good return on that vast area of land? An analysis might be interesting, comparing to other forms of ‘tourism’ and land use.

  189. Capella says:

    @ galacennalath
    Yes the vast land area of Scotland is devoted to growing a food product, game, that practically none of us eat. How efficient is that?

    Nothing new here though. Let’s really frighten the landed gentry by referring them to the traditional bogeyman Marx’s article on the theft of the clan lands by the British aristocracy. He was a better journalist than DT:

    “Mr Loch, in his defense of the Countess of Sutherland (1820), replies to the above as follows:

    “… Why should the absolute authority of the landlord over his land be sacrificed to the public interest and to motives which concern the public only?”

    Good question.

  190. heedtracker says:

    Totally not toryboy Torrance but this blood sport is also totally NOT reported by Pacific Quay red tories. The fact that its not reported by say the Reporting Scotland creep show probably says a lot about how elites control media.

    Hares being taken away after a cull
    We need to show Scotland that we care for the mountain hare, and that we won’t accept the killing any longer. Please sign and share so we can show that the public is behind the mountain hare. We will deliver the petition to the Scottish Parliament and use it to show MSPs that they must take action now

    There’s probably no less innocuous creatures than hares but loads of goons like to kill them for fun.

  191. Paula Rose says:

    @JETJockey It was the Edzell gala on Saturday, could have been footage from that.

    Btw – Be More Brechin event tonight at 7pm in the Caledonian Hotel (south of Edzell) with Schrödingers Cat.

  192. cirsium says:

    @galamcennalath, Capella, Nana, heedtracker, Jetjockey

    More information on the depredations of the driven grouse shooting industry can be found at Raptor Persecution Scotland. The site currently features three short videos by Chris Packham

    There is a petition calling on the Scottish Government to introduce a state regulated licensing system for gamebird hunting in Scotland at

  193. Dr Jim says:

    America’s got Disney World, Germany has it’s beer festivals Japan has some Samourai stuff going on, Spain’s got Pirates, Paris couldn’t think of anything so they just copied Disney what I mean is, most countries have got Naff Tourism for the Visitors and you can’t have just all cultural stuff kids get bored
    OK we’ve got the Embra Festivaal and some Viking stuff but with all this land we’ve got sloshing around doing nothing maybe we could have a, wait for it

    Wallace World, eh, a wee touristy tartan Brig o Doony place where we rip off, I mean delight all the tourists with makey uppy history just like the Yanks have cowboy towns with Wyatt Earp and the Injuns and the rootin and the tootin and the horsey gags going on
    except we have Kilts and Swords and a lot of shouting while we’re selling loads of Irn Bru Slushys and Tablet (for the wee ones) it’s got to be better than (bored voice from kids) the Safari park again

    I know the purists might be saying it’s all a bit cheapening of the Brand Scotland after all we’re the home of Golf and all that, but if our visitor numbers are to keep going up we’re probably going to need more stuff for them to look at and if we don’t do it somebody like Trump will

    I’m being tongue in cheek about it all, but Golf, the Festivaal and some cultural offerings won’t be enough soon especially if we get the flight prices down

    Don’t aw shout at me at once noo (more ideas on a postcard)

  194. heedtracker says:

    OT but finally, some good news from Dr NO, at last. If like me, you’re a huge fan of Dr NO, you’ll know Dr NO for his relentless monstering of Scottish education under SNP, aswell as everything else SNP or independence. But above all else Dr NO, really hates SNP Scottish education everything.

    Scott Arthur ?@DrScottThinks 5h5 hours ago Edinburgh, Scotland
    Very proud of my daughter today:

    Chem Advanced H – A
    Maths Advanced H – A
    Phys Advanced H – A

    Many thanks to all @BoroughmuirHS

    Also and finally,

    Wee mention of SNP funding. Tory Yoons eh, red or blue.

  195. Famous15 says:

    I support native rights. As a memberof the indigenous population I reserve my right to hunt hares rabbits,deer,seals,shellfish,lobster and any other living thing that may aid my survival on this earth.

    I consider the WWF,RSPB and such inimical to eminent domain as an assertion of the rights of the greater good. I also like ikley tickley cuddly things.

    Am I asking too much?

  196. galamcennalath says:

    Myself at 11:45

    Some other Scottish visitor incomes just picked off a Google search …

    Total visitor economy £11.6billion
    Marine tourism £3.7billion
    Nature based tourism £1.4billion
    Music tourism £300million
    Field sports tourism £155million
    Golf tourism £57million

    …. these may not be comparing like with like, but give an idea of the scale of different tourism sectors

  197. Frances says:

    Dr Jim and Chic

    Here is a map showing Scotland and England in perspective. Very interesting.

    the following video is very good too.

    I hope this has come out ok. I took off the http

  198. galamcennalath says:

    “Sturgeon’s dream of independent Scotland in TATTERS as nation’s OIL CURSE continues”

    Scotland, the only country on the planet to be CURSED with oil!

    Difficult decision here, laugh or cry?

  199. Fred says:

    Congratulations Nana.

  200. Capella says:

    @ cirsium – good links. Of course the game lobby want the BBC to sack Chris Packham for his campaign. Or muzzle him!

    “The British Association for Shooting and Conservation (BASC), the Countryside Alliance (CA), the Moorland Association and the National Gamekeepers Organisation (NGO) have all questioned Mr Packham’s freedom to continue his extremist anti-shooting propaganda while still being regularly employed by the BBC.”

  201. heedtracker says:

    Future mayor of Manchester Andy Burnham tells BBC r4 lunchtime news that they’re being “drowned out by Scotland” the North of England that is. That’s after his list of how bad New Labour was in power, with him. R4 liggers pretty nice to Andy though.

    Scotland drowning out say 35 million English people of the North is really something though.

  202. Robert Peffers says:

    @Chic McGregor says: 9 August, 2016 at 11:23 am:

    ” … There are some rational instances where a distorted map can be to some extent justified.”

    However, in the particular case of a weather map, it makes absolutely no scientific sense whatsoever to distort a map on a population density basis.

    Well actually, Chick it does. I’m working on memory here but if I remember correctly the explanation is that there are several valid mapping projections all caused be the fact the Earth is roughly round but the map is flat.

    Thus the projection is dependent upon the angle between the location and the point of view of the viewer. Thus we are, (usually), accustomed to maps drawn from a POV based upon, the meridian of the Greenwich Observatory.

    (“A prime meridian, based at the Royal Observatory, Greenwich, in London, was established by Sir George Airy in 1851. By 1884, over two-thirds of all ships and tonnage used it as the reference meridian on their charts and maps.”)

    In other words looking down on Britain almost from directly above.

    However, the weather maps used by the BBC are based upon the projected POV of the Weather satellite which is in a geostatic orbit south of the British Isles.

    It is thus not based upon the myth that it is population based.

    As I said, though, I’m going on memory here so I may be wrong.

  203. heedtracker says:

    Famous15 says:
    9 August, 2016 at 1:10 pm
    I support native rights. As a memberof the indigenous population I reserve my right to hunt hares rabbits,deer,seals,shellfish,lobster and any other living thing that may aid my survival on this earth.

    Blood sports are for fun Famous15, fun for the rich that could have fun doing less cruel hobbies. Not sure why its called blood sports either. All just part of the UKOK toryboy fiction we get rammed down our throats from the get go.

    Also, all Highland blood sports estates, Balmoral in particular, are catastrophically damaged by the use of fire to kill all native flora and fauna. Planet toryboy says celebrate this sweaties, its your nation tradition but its really not. Mass poisoning and shooting of Highland raptors is just the tip of the crimes against our enviroment. And all for the fun of likes of tweeded up City spivs, trying to be like the royals.

  204. Capella says:

    ..and the BBC duly “investigate” Chris Packham.

    In other news, the Corbynistas win all 6 seats on the Labour NEC for Constituency Party reps. A “clean sweep”.
    Eddie Izzard not elected.

  205. Ron_J says:

    I note on the day that the school exam results come out that there is no mention of it at all on the BBC UK news homepage; the story is only shown on the Scottish subpage.

    Presumably that’ll also be the case when the English exam results are released…?

  206. ronnie anderson says:

    Daily Mail headline today.

    Cleaners at Scottish Police offices told to only empty bins once a day to save on binbags,so said a Police federation spokesperson. Can you see a theme devoloping here Police shop at Charity shops for Equipment, Boots/Keflar vests.

    Tomorrows Headlines

    Police offices in Scotland have been invaded by a plague of Fly’s and due to budget cuts cant afford fly spray. Daily Mail Editor will supply daily papers to all Scotlands Police offices/policemen/women to Swat the fly,s.

    It is also intended to have a Evening editon of the Daily Mail to combat plagues of Scottish Midges,every Police officer will be supplied with a rolled up copy before they go on duty.

    All Hail the Daily Mail.

  207. Famous15 says:

    @Ronnie Anderson.

    The Yorkshire Post which has the strange banner ” Yorkshire’s National Newspaper ” in one article today reports that Scottish Police Officers are forced to buy their own cleaning materials like sterile wipes,because of budget cuts.Press release from the SP Federation!

    Elswhere in the same edition it reports catstrophic cuts in the number of police officers serving in Yorkshire.

  208. Les Wilson says:

    JLT says:

    No, that is the last thing he wants to do, hence he has made sure he cannot be challenged, while giving the UKOK media what they want to hear ie Scot Bashing.
    They are clamoring for that stuff, he is happy to be the one of many who will supply them with it.

    All for money and to ingratiate himself into the anti Scots fest that is growing in the english based press. It is Where he sees his money and popularity? lays.
    While Scots can’t be bothered with him.

  209. sandra says:

    The problem is that how we are governed in Scotland has never changed for decades. We are no further forward in getting a progressive inclusive society than we were in the 1900s and we won’t until we are free to make our own decisions.
    I watched a programme, “Scotlands first oil rush”, it told the story of shale mining in the west of scotland concentrating on the 40’s and 50’s. How the brass band was used to recruit soldiers from across scotland for the war, many not coming back. How after the war, oil was being discoved in other parts of the world, and the miners were forced to accept a pay cut, and when they went on strike, they were refused social payments so their children were starving.
    Its no different now and I can’t fathom why “no to indy” voters accept this situation for their own children.
    Is it psrtly ignorance of our history.

  210. Valerie says:

    Enjoy your gold wings. Very well.deserved for all.your hard work bringing us valuable info. It gives us a more rounded view.

    Well said on the estates and hares. As a former munro bagger, it is a thrill to see any animal in their natural habitat. I abhor guns and killing for so called ‘sport’.

    When out in the countryside, I adhere to the adage – leave nothing but footprints.

    Folks, PLEASE go to Heed’s post at 12.20 and sign the petition.

    Hares are not that plentiful, and I believe they are protected down south?

  211. stewartb says:

    Headtracker @ 1pm on schools.

    The SNP government’s programme of investment since c. 2007 in the building or refurbishment of schools in cooperation with local authorities across the country gets little or no media coverage. There is no coverage of the impact this investment is having both on enhancing the schools’ estate for the long term nor on the boost it is giving to employment and apprenticeships in the construction sector in the short to medium term, including at times of imposed economic austerity from Westminster.

    Its one unsung example of the SNP government’s sensible investment in national infrastructure for the common good. When you add in its investment in renewing the FE college estate, in the NHS estate and in transport infrastructure, the long term, beneficial legacy of public sector investment in Scotland’s infrastructure during this period of SNP government will be very substantial.

    For more on the scale and achievements of the school building programme see The stats are notable!

  212. Jack Murphy says:

    Lochside said at 9:51 pm last night:-
    “Torrance is a paid glove puppet. A mouth on a stick. David Mundell’s ex ‘aide’,…………………”
    He worked for Tory David Mundell MP 2005-2006.

    YES the viewer/reader must remember that every time the BBC or STV drag David Torrance on the telly as some sort of Fount of impartial Font of Knowledge—-he’s NOT !

  213. bugsbunny says:

    Capella @1.31,

    I looked at that site. One thing struck me. Hasn’t Citizen Smith aged, and why did he need to gp through a sex swap? S/he looks lovely in his/her pink revolutionary beret. lol.

  214. ‘Torcuil Crichton’; he sounds like a character out of ‘The 39 Steps’.
    But no, he’s a Yoon Hack who works for the ‘Ranjurs Ur Barrilliant, Sellick are fandabulous’, Daily Record.
    He is the cloth and cap version of Herald Scotland’s Captain Pugwash, whose name I refuse to publicise.
    I love the classification , ‘Britishness’. Apparently that’s what the news at Six, and Newsnight, and QT, provide for us. They are the glue that holds Mr Crichton’s ‘Britain’together.
    His nonsensical claim is that we all gather ’round the telly with our roast beef and Yorkshire puddin’ in our laps and watch avidly as England play Pakistan at rounders, or whatever, and we don’t think that English specific news items (EVEL?) are irrelevant Up Here because, we are a patient race and realise that,hey most of his ‘Britons’ resides South of the Border, so that’s ok then? We just sit dutifully through News Where They Are because we are loyal little Britons?
    The same old democratic deficit argument. There are more of them, so back in your box, Sweaties.
    Fortunately in this digital age when a lie cannot go half way around the world before the truth gets its boots on, MR Crichton’s piffle, and assertion that Scottish viewers are up at arms at having to endure in-depth Scottish news, laced with ‘international’ (and that includes England Wales and NI) reports, is based on what?
    Nothing other than his jaundiced view that the push for news where we are is an SNP plot to break up the Union, to destroy his ‘Britishness’ fancy.
    Napoleon mused:-
    ‘Four hostile newspapers are more to be feared than a thousand bayonets’.
    Not any more, Torcuil me lad. WoS WGD, and so many many more outlets won’t let you away with this arrogant nonsense any more.
    The BBC is an Establishment tool to broadcast propaganda North, and BBC Scotland is the equivalent of the Red Blue and Jaundiced Tories’ Branch Offices. It is there to promote subjugation to the SE Establishment and WM.
    It was Hitler who observed:-
    ‘By the skilful and sustained use of propaganda, one can make people even see heaven as hell, or an extremely wretched life as paradise.’
    The Better Together Campaign of which Torcuil’s paper was an eager agent provocateur took the Fuhrer’s words to heart.
    BAE would close their yards in Scotland, Barrhead Travel would up sticks and relocate south, Asda prices would rocket Up Here, England would refuse to trade with us, we would be kicked out of the EU, and face a 10 year wait to get back in, the international Money Men wouldn’t do business with us, and Russia or North Korea would invade.
    ‘Paradise’ described as ‘hell’ by the eager Establishment owned hacks. Scotland was, and still is, basically shite.
    Proud Scot, Mr Crichton?
    Adolf also observed:-
    ‘All propaganda has to be popular and has to accommodate itself to the comprehension of the least intelligent of those whom it seeks to reach’.75 years on there are fewer and fewer of the Great Unwashed who believe the guff that you peddlers churn out.
    Well done, Torcuil.
    Like your co conspirator over at the Herald Desk, and Pacific Quay, the ‘paradise’ sold by you and Better Together’ has indeed turned out to be ‘hell’, and we are to be dragged out of the EU, we are getting Trident, the Frigates may never be built, we have foodbanks, zero hours contracts, and fuel vouchers now, because we voted to stay with the UK.
    The BBC failed to report that Scotland voted Remain and the impact that this may have on Indyref 2 in their hour long mockumentary last night on ‘British Brexit’.
    It is not worth mentioning the Remain vote in Scotland, as there are more viewers Down There than Up Here?
    Noam Chomsky says:-
    ‘The idea that we must choose between ‘winning hearts and minds’ and the method of shaping behaviour presumes that we have the right to choose at all. This is a right that we would surely grant to no other power’.
    He is referring to the US’ Imperial expansion. It may be argued that it also applies to rUK.
    Torcuil’s argument is that there are vastly more viewers Down There than Up Here implies that we are one nation. No we are not. We live in a 309 year old political contract of 4 nations. Why would I allow England to impose its will on me and mine any longer? Hegemony.
    The Chelsea Flower Show, Oxford Cambridge Boat Race, a V&A Event, Test Cricket, the English Football Team, TV Drama constantly with London as a backdrop, Home Counties Comedy shows and panel games, flood our airwaves. The predominant culture on these isles will be Home Counties England, and this is what will be beamed into your living room whether you like it or not. It’s the ‘Britishness’ thing, doncha know?
    As Chomsky notes, what right has England got to foist its ‘hearts and minds’ agenda on viewers in Scotland.
    Heatwave London is ‘paradise’, dreich wet windy Scotland is ‘hell’. Pass the strawberries and cream and a glass of Pimms. Murray wins Wimbers twice, but the Proles still watch from Henman Hill? Aye, right.
    If we imposed our culture and uniquely Scottish way of life (Law, Education, Religion, Health) on our English neighbours, would they put up with it? Of course not, and why should they?
    Groucho, the sensible Marx, commented:-
    ‘I read in the newspaper that they are going to have 30 minutes of intellectual stuff on Television every Monday from 7.30 to 8. to educate America. They couldn’t educate America if they started at 6.30′.
    No one’s arguing that a Scottish Six will be the final straw, that the UK would disintegrate if we actually had the News Where We Are and a Scottish perspective to News Where Everybody Else Is delivered from Scottish studios for an extra 30 minutes.
    This the MSM Unionist Hacks’ main thrust. It would break up their precious Union.
    The end of civilisation as they know it and their well paid Unionist Apologists’ role in keeping their murky peddling Better Together gunk.

    I am not ‘British’, as a nationality, nor apparently are the majority of Scots citizens, according to the last census.
    I am Scottish by birth and location. Always was, always will be.
    I am in a Union of Parliaments, a political construct, which according to the polls, precipitated by Wengland’s exit of the EU, will cease very soon now.

  215. HandandShrimp says:

    A friend who is a shop steward affiliated to the Labour Party so he could vote for JC.

    He voted Yes for Indy and SNP for both Westminster and Holyrood although not a party member. Bemused I asked why he had felt moved to do so. He smiled and said “because it is a laugh”.

  216. Chic McGregor says:

    You seem to have fallen prey to misinformation.

    The usual image the BBC uses is not from a geostationary satellite. I have seen that claimed by them on a weather broadcast some years ago but it is simply not true.

    A geostationary satellite, by necessity, orbits about 36,000 km directly over the mean equatorial position.

    Yes, a view from that position will be distorted by perspective and by the curve of the Earth but nothing like the normal BBC view we know and loath.

    Here is an actual colour picture of the UK from METEOSAT. (Part of the Northern peninsula is cloud obscured).

    Note at 40,000 km from the UK, the E-W perspective difference made by the 400 km or so difference from S to N of the UK is not great, after all we are talking about a perspective difference seen between a viewing distance of say 39200km and 39600, something like that.

    N-S apparent distance is more effected because we also have curvature of the Earth. Note that from a geostationary viewpoint northern parts of Scandinavian countries are not even visible because they are below the satellite’s horizon, so the effect becomes greater as that horizon is approached.

    It is also a routine matter for any geostationary image to be remapped, correcting for distorted perspective.

    Here are two geo stationary images, the first, which again shows the small perspective effect on seeming E-W distance and the larger apparent effect N-S due to both perspective and Earth curvature.
    The second shows the easily corrected image.

    But note the main point regarding misinformation is that not even an unadjusted geostationary image is used. Instead they usual view they use can only be produced from an altitude of around 1000 km and about 250km or so South of the British Isles. I matched the usual BBC map to Google Earth some years ago and discovered this.

    I will have the figures somewhere perhaps, but it is an easy if somewhat time consuming exercise to reproduce. In other words, the distorting effects of perspective in the BBC map are much greater because the POV chosen is much closer relatively speaking, to the South of England. And E-W reduction is in that instance, almost as much as N-S.

    So I am well aware that the BBC map can be reproduced using a satellite view, but the main views used are quite arbitrary in choice and never routinely a geostationary one.

    The key advantage of geostationary is you can get an image at anytime you wish which would be a justification for using it, even without POV correction, but they don’t even do that.

    I only mention population density because on some maps it distortion can be justified on a rational basis and some people assume this is the same principle in use for the weather map. It isn’t but even if it were, it would not make sense for weather.

    The viewpoints the BBC choose do not make sense either, are entirely their own unscientifically justified choice and are either arbitrary or for some unstated reason which we can all guess at.

  217. Free Scotland says:

    I notice that the Herald article contains the expression “… caved into this relentless political pressure …,” which should obviously read: “… caved in to etc.”

    I wonder if that little grammatical gaffe should be attributed to Torrance himself or to the editor at the Herald. Not that it really matters: both are well known as purveyors of shabby journalism.

  218. Andrew McLean says:

    Lock side,
    Excellent points, especially ” it’s the connections that’ll count” , long ago there was a tv program by I think michel burk, it wad called connections, funny how that works,!

  219. Sandy says:

    Years ago, I was fortunate enough to achieve a ‘A’ in English higher, part of which was interpretation. Having read one or two of Torrance’s raving diatribes, I sometimes think I am losing that ability to interpret.

  220. Foonurt says:

    Valerie – lee jist fitprints. Huv ye nivurr cautt ‘Rabbit Prif Fence’?

  221. heedtracker says:

    Only the Scotland region of greater England, can produce tory boils on the arse of humanity like Euan Mcspanner.

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