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Wings Over Scotland


A foolproof plan

Posted on June 06, 2019 by

This should definitely work. Because as we all know, nothing weakens the resolve of Scottish nationalists like having the Union Jack rammed in their faces every minute.

This man wants to be Prime Minister, readers.

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    249 to “A foolproof plan”

    1. Ian McCubbin says:

      ????????? Too late our side already thought of that a d country is awash with Saltires.
      We open a YES hub 10 of us in Perth. Target date 1st July the campaign is on and this time we won’t lose.

    2. Den Cairns says:

      Do It!! Do It!! Put them in ASDA bogs, all the way doon the Style Mile and put a Union Jock fringe roon all a BBC Bullshits channels – includin the News.

    3. Ian McCubbin says:

      Ha ha ha ha ha ah
      We open a YES hub 10 of us in Perth. Target date 1st July the campaign is on and this time we won’t lose.
      Oh and it will be covered in Saltires painted blue and white inside and out no jack red in sight.
      Ha ha ha ha ha.

    4. It’s HUGE! I don’t know about you but that photo is enough for ME. See you suckers, I’m aff….I mean off. “Rule Britannia, Britannia dumdeedum” (I’ll get it, I’ll get it!)

    5. Famous15 says:

      What this clown admits is that there is a concerted plan to flood Scotand with Union flags.

      I think they and their allies in Morrisons etc have overdone it and their is this tiny resentment feeling within us,I know I should be better,a resentment that ensures I never buy such UJ products as they symbolise my colonial status.

      You are only comfortable in your own skin when not being dominated. Smell the fresh air of freedom!

      Are we there yet? Are we there yet?

    6. Famous15 says:

      There,there!

    7. X_Sticks says:

      What about public floggings for those that deny the supremacy of the “Union” flag?

      That would show those damned Jocks what for, eh?

    8. Socrates MacSporran says:

      I live in one of the most-Orange villages in Orange County, Ayrshire. Every day, going from the centre of the village to my house, I pass umpteen Union flag-adorned houses.

      I am still pro-independence, and, so are most of the villagers.

    9. Greannach says:

      I’d been hoping for Boris Johnson or Dominic Raab, but this guy has WINNER written all over him. Yes, please!

    10. Auld Rock says:

      Oh, what a marvelous recruiting sergeant this prune makes for us. Think the message is getting through to the Co-op as their Scottish strawberries now have Saltire back – maybe it was the trolley loads of packs with that flag on it having to be sold off cheap????

    11. Macart says:

      OFFS! 😀

      That is the most cretinous idea I’ve ev … Nope! Words fail at this point.

    12. Mosstrooper says:

      Is this a Baldrick plan, what does Blackadder think?

    13. Jeff says:

      I see ‘British’ football fans are rioting in Portugal according to MSN ‘news’….

    14. shiregirl says:

      The guy is a Fud. Capital F.

    15. Robert says:

      Remember whose hearts and minds these obnoxious people are campaingnining for. It’s for their selectorate – the white male elderly Conservative party members who will chose or next prime minister. So not us. They shouild however be careful what they say in public – everyone’s listening.

    16. Dr Jim says:

      Vee vill make you un Nationality zat does not exist and you vill obey
      Vee vill stamp it on your food, vee vill put it on your buildings, vee vill *Nevah um Surrendah* to your vile Scottish Nationalism

      Funny old world

    17. mogabee says:

      When is a foolproof plan NOT a foolproof plan?

      Yes, when a Tory election campaign heats up and the runners try all ways to squeeze out the craziest ideas ever!

      So incompetent are they that FOOLproof takes on a new meaning as the world looks on in absolute horror.

    18. Breeks says:

      They could plant a thousand Union Jacks as far as the eye could see in every direction, and they’d still be worthless beside the one saltire they tore down in Freedom Square 2014.

    19. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Via the Rev’s twitter feed, I watched Fluffy Junior pontificating on the Toerag leadership battle.

      My belief is now stronger than ever, you were right in what you said Rev.

    20. naina tal says:

      Oor local wee shopkeeper sits and blacks oot aw the wee butchers aprons on prepacked stuff. Worth buying from him for that alone! Mind he is a wee bit dearer but worth it. Why would I travel to the next village to get it a wee bit cheaper in Morrisda?

    21. Big butchers apron on the road to Neist point on the Isle of Skye,

      next to Skye Silver,

      i`m sure there used to be a saltire flying there,

      it was like seeing a tick on your dog,(which is a nightmare on Skye),

      it was just nasty and wrong in such a beautiful place.

    22. haudonthenoo says:

      The man is an arse.

      Thanks

    23. Josef Ó Luain says:

      Apart from the usual die-hardz who’ve never entertained a political thought in their lives – the UJ has been well-and-truly “foreigned”in Scotland .

      Semiotics, symbolism and the like, is a two-way street.

    24. ALLEN RALSTON says:

      I wonder what would happen if everyone while doing their shopping decided to buy only items with the U.J on them and layered the softer items on the bottom of the trolley along with the chilled / frozen item , e.g British cheddar , British ice cubes that sort of thing then the heavy items only to suddenly realise that they had something like a vest washing emergency at home which meant regrettably the trolley had to be ditched ? . Just wondering

    25. winifred mccartney says:

      Even Fiona Hyslop is questioning the UJ’s at Edinburgh Festival -and asking him where they were – as is EIF they have never heard of it – (today’s national) remember if a tory’s lips are moving they are lying.

      This is not accidental – this is a campaign by unionists,I have not bought a plant in Morrisons or anything else with a uj on it and have told them why – many others feel the same – vote with your feet and your purse. Same in M&S though I see now there are Scottish Strawberries with no uj – maybe they are learning we are not buying anything from Scotland with a uj on it and make sure you tell them why.

    26. Welsh Sion says:

      He should team up with that other Tory Leader hopeful, Jeremy Rhyming-Slang and fly that flag at ‘Culludun’.

      That would almost seal the deal as far as Scotland’s concerned.

    27. kapelmeister says:

      Every Tory leadership candidate is an arrogant fool and every one would advance the case for our independence. Union Jackboots Hancock would be as good at that as any of them.

    28. Richard Hunter says:

      Is he claiming that he was responsible for that stupid Union Jack shown in the picture? If so, it’s an interesting admission that the Tattoo is government orchestrated propaganda.

    29. Welsh Sion says:

      Noting also that ‘Brit’ fans are exchanging pleasantries with the Portuguese police according to the Evening Standard link on MSN – but they’re not asking the way to the stadium in their best Lusophone accents.

      Follow the link and the ‘Brit fans’ morph into ‘England fans [who are] a disgrace to the country’ [sic.]

    30. Clootie says:

      I detest that flag. It is a vile reminder of the theft of my country by deceit, threat and bribery.
      It is already being rammed down our throats daily that we are “British” when they really mean “English”.

      …enough!

    31. Frank Gillougley says:

      Just so as you know, on another contender, for the tory party leadership, that Hunt millionaire, while doing the painting last night, i was listening to R4. He was being interviewed by that other sycophant Nick Robinson and Hunt said that he had been given advice on how to be a good foreign secretary by none other than the war criminal, Henry Kissinger. Hunt spoke of him as some sort of hero. Unbelievable. How he was never tried as a war criminal, I’ll never know, – never mind being awarded the nobel peace prize.
      I am old enough to remember the images of the carpet bombing of North Vietnam on the news.

    32. Geordie says:

      Yep, we were at the Tattoo last year and there definitely was a noticeable Jackification of the event, Spitfires and all. Very obvious and really stuck in my throat. We got our point across though when the announcer asked everyone to stand for the national anthem (GSTQ of course) and the anthem of a foreign dignitary guest (could have been Nepal, not sure, no issues with them). My mum (75), her cousin (same), my niece (10) and me were I reckon the only ones in the crowd to stay seated. No doubt we’re on some MI5 list now…

    33. Muscleguy says:

      I’ve got to the stage that if something has th butcher’s apron on it then I am very, very much less likely to buy it, even if I need it. I will go elsewhere in search of one without. The marketers don’t think there are enough of us to make a difference but we have to do this.

      Don’t buy products with the apron on them, most especially if it is produced here in Scotland.

      BTW I have no issue with produce having UK country specific flags on it. I would buy English flagged stuff quite happily (if it was produced in England), except for some things. I note that the short date shelf in the local Coop occasionally has boil in the bag kippers in it. Why? they are from Devon. The stupidity of offering Devon kippers for sale in Scotland, it’s basically an insult.

    34. kapelmeister says:

      RT has continued to provide informative news items and discussions while the BBC and SKY have spent the last couple of days in 1944.

    35. galamcennalath says:

      If it’s got a jack, put it back!

      Simple, boycott and avoid everything which is Union Flag branded.

      What about the new Minis!? Basically BMWs but they have Union flag patterned tail lights! How did that come about?

      https://www.completecar.ie/features/post/8591/The-curious-case-of-MINIs-politicised-tail-lights

    36. Didn’t all the Tory leadership contenders promise to tell us here in Scotland how we benefit from being part the UK and how good this union is for us.

      Well I suppose there’s so much for them to be positively proud about that its taking time for them to draw up list List of all the goodies we enjoy being part of this union.

      Tax cuts for the rich and benefit cuts for the poor leaving people destitute and in some cases homeless, increasing levels of poverty,food banks, people robbed of their retirement, lowest pensions in Europe,austerity ect

      The list is almost endless and they believe we should be grateful to them!

    37. stan moore says:

      I’ve worked all over Tayside, Fife & Angus since long before the 2014 Indy ref & reckon 99+% of flagpoles i’ve spotted fly the Saltire. I’ve also seen a lot of EU, Estelada & WOS flags, i have all those in my collection plus a Mexico flag for Trumpet if he ever decides to fly over Perth, my 20ft pole has been sporting a 5×3 EU flag for a good number of months now, absolutely gaggin now to tear open my Yes flags but patience n’ all that… I buy nothing with a butchers apron on it these days, i & many others would sooner chew boken glass, if this deluded clown thinks his plan of union jackery is going to bond us all then hey ho… I’m not gonna be a hypocrite here, i have a few items in my posession that have UJ’s on them but i aint gonna launch my old & cherished “Orange” guitar amp out the window even although i’m a Celtic fan 🙂 their logo has never changed since day one so it’s cool if that’s the british brand of top quality gear from the past/present, i’m an old school punk so i even have an original Sex Pistols Anarchy Tour poster which looks as old as the Magna Carta, that’s going nowhere fast… I can deal with personal nostalgia and have many fond memories of punting wee jackery flags on flag day for the Sea Cadets in 70s, i even spent 2 weeks living on board HMS Ramehead in Portsmouth which was berthed right next to the Royal Yacht Britania, WOW… a very proud and joyous occasion for a 12yr old, trip of a lifetime visiting all the other naval docks around that area, proud young Scot/Brit who eventually pledged an allegiance to Her Majesties 51st Higlanders in the 80s but this aint the 80s, 70s, 60s or 50s anymore, VERY MUCH HAS CHANGED INDEED and there is no point in anyone being deluded with nostalgic thoughts, we are in a seriously tight position here – we need out… P.s it’s been a helluva long time since i was coerced into labeling myself as a Scot/Brit… Good luck to all who board the HMS Titanic Cliffedge… It’s been nice knowing ya….

    38. Mac says:

      New driving licences now have a Union Flag since around 2014. They put them anywhere they could think of. Their idea of branding.

    39. A C Bruce says:

      I don’t buy anything with a UJ on it and haven’t done so since they started politicising our food, etc. I hate the very sight of them.

      I notice some supermarkets have cottoned on to people giving UJ labelled pre-packaged items a body swerve and have moved the UJ to the bottom of the pack instead of the top label. I’ve got into the habit of checking packaging all over.

      I want to buy food from local producers which is mainly why I look out for the Saltire but would have nothing against buying food marked with the flags of other UK nations if the item wasn’t produced locally.

      I’m pretty sick and tired of their brain washing attempts. It’s pathetic.

    40. Dr Jim says:

      I’m of an age that remembers when they used to play the *British* national anthem at the end of the film in the cinema, but just before that happened the whole of the audience got up and ran for the door so they wouldn’t have to stand or indeed even hear it, leaving only ever a handful of diehard types standing, and remember many of the adult men and women at that time had been military service people but they still got out of the cinema quickly

      I wonder if the Unionists today would stay in the cinema and stand like their parents never did before them

      Was Scotland more proud of itself then or were Unionists always cowards and didn’t want anyone to see what they were

    41. Dorothy Devine says:

      Where is Nana?Is she OK? Anyone know?

      And where is the lovely loon Cactus? (I am an Aberdonian so I am allowed to call him that!)

    42. CmonIndy says:

      I present as evidence, m’lud, shelves of unsold Jack-emblazoned Hovis bread in Tesco and Morrisons.

    43. Fraser MacKintosh says:

      Just saw Ruth the mooth only twice this week on bbc where has she gone?

    44. A C Bruce says:

      The Bonny Badge Co., used to do sheets of small self adhesive Saltires.

      They were an exact fit to cover up the driving licence UJ. I’ve got one on mine.

    45. naina tal says:

      Trying tae dae ma bit tae coonter the Uj labelling thing. Sent tae Lidls for the shopping. SWMBO disnae buy stuff with Jacks, nor me neither!

      Hoosomever, went tae mak the tea and realised I’d bocht gairden peas wi a wee Union Jack on the corner. Ah’m staundin at the cooker, when I hear her coming intae the kitchen. In ma infinite wisdom ah thocht the thing tae dae wis tae burn the bliddy thing off the end o’ the packet by putting the wee strip I cut off tae the gas.

      It just meltit a wee bit and you could still see the offending pictur. So I stuck it back in again. The hail thing meltit an stuck tae ma left haun. Tips o ma fingers are aw brunt. An’ it’s sair. But hey! Took one for the cause!

      Jist tell this wee story tae demonstrate the dangers o pittin Union Jacks oan awthing. Or that we have eejits oan oor side an’ aw!!

    46. Joe says:

      You would almost think they wanted Scotland to leave.

      Lets just not go mindlessly into the arms of the Eurozone with lies like ‘independent country in the EU’.

    47. kapelmeister says:

      O/T

      The National is reporting that the Spanish Consul General in Scotland wrote to the Herald in April to say that his government would never try to veto an independent Scotland rejoining the EU.

      The Herald never published or even mentioned the letter. With this revelation the Herald can no longer be considered a newspaper. It’s an out and out propaganda sheet.

    48. I had a wee chat to a price marker in Lidl the other week about the proliferation of Butchers’ Aprons on packaging, including bizarrely, the wee price stickers they attach to each product.
      I pointed out that as a German Company, I found it strange that their Marketing Division felt that it would be a selling point, in Scotland, indeed here in West Scotland, to imprint their goods with the symbol of oppression.
      I mused, would this German company stamp their products with swastikas if Hitler had repelled the D Day Landing, and the English Elite, who, history now shows, would have collaborated if Germany invaded and London fell?
      The lad, quite rightly, basically said, ‘don’t blame me, I only work here’.
      Yet Lidl proudly display the Saltire on beef, chickens, ,ilk, butter, and so on.
      I’m sure someone from Lidl, and the other supermarket chains, read this essential Blog.
      Several millions of us Scots, probably many more now that we face No Deal and Stars and Stripes on our Texas T Bones on our shelves Within the Year, refuse to buy ANYTHING (excuse the Caps, Stu.) with the symbol of our colonial oppressor emblazoned on it.
      They even have loaves of bread wrapped in plastic Butchers’ Aprons.
      It is the tactic of any invasion force.
      Smother every prominent building with the symbols of the Conqueror, be it swastikas, Hammer and sickles, ubiquitous portraits of Mao, Saddam Hussein, Colonel Gadaffi, and, (this will surely get me locked up in the Tower for treason), Auld Lizzie.
      The New Glasgow Hospital is named by some Unseen Hand, ‘The Queen Elizabeth, their aircraftless carrier, the ‘Queen Elizabeth’, ‘The Royal’ this that and the next thing is everywhere.
      It must cost these supermarket giants 100’s of millions in lost revenue, because they are perfectly aware that millions of consumers will not pick up a lasagne with the Mark of Empire plastered over the packaging.
      It must be worth it, to pr4eserve the vast wealth and lucrative real estate Up Here for our Imperial Masters to the South.

      The Scotland emblem will not stand in the shadows of The Jack any more.
      Edinburgh Castle, Faslane, Lossiemouth, are military stockades, English stockades of the Holy London Empire.
      We are held under martial law in our own country.
      Not for long now.
      Lidl, are you getting the message?

    49. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi kapelmeister at 11:26 am.

      You typed,
      The Herald never published or even mentioned the letter. With this revelation the Herald can no longer be considered a newspaper. It’s an out and out propaganda sheet.

      The story was in the National this morning and was picked up by both the Herald and Scotsman web sites.

    50. Greannach says:

      Maybe this Matt Hancock guy has a point.

      Remember how successful the Nazis were when they had swastika flags flying all over France, Norway, Poland and Czechoslovakia, and how the local populations abandoned their own national sentiments and wholeheartedly supported union with the Reich? Remember?

    51. Papko says:

      “I mused, would this German company stamp their products with swastikas if Hitler had repelled the D Day Landing, and the English Elite, who, history now shows, would have collaborated if Germany invaded and London fell?”

      They are there to sell goods at ALDI, or any supermarket.
      regardless of who triumphed in the war, people will still buy their food in some kind of shop.

    52. Giving Goose says:

      If it’s got a jack, put it back!

    53. Stuart MacKay says:

      I dunno whenever I see the Union flag I think of Austin Powers. Maybe we can get Felicity Shagwell to run for the leader of the Conservatives.

    54. Papko says:

      @Jack

      “Lidl, are you getting the message?”

      They may well be getting the message, as they are opening more shops.

      Spite the fact millions of Scots refuse to buy their products,
      I wonder if the marketing dept at Lidl actually read these comments?
      They might find out why so much food lies on shelves, spite steep discounts.

    55. Donald anderson says:

      Britain’s Got Nae Talent winner was a Union Jack Chelsea Pensioner Vera Lynn impersonator. These veterans are being exploited again, after fight for National Health Service that the Lab Cons are trying to destroy and sell to the Trumps.

      The EBC is fighting D Day all long and all the soaps have union jack sofas, pictyerrs and knickers. HMS Belfast is parading a giant Butcher’s Apron with a DUP paramilitary crew.

    56. Papko @11.50 am

      Yes, and the UJ loaves pile up unbought…
      SO who’s paying for all this waste, and lost profit?
      UCS top ups to minimum wages? That must be worth hundreds of millions in ‘savings’ to the big chains.
      To many many of us, the sight of the UJ is as offensive as the swastika, and that is no hyperbole.

    57. jfngw says:

      Looks like these Tory hopefuls will need to up the anti to differentiate themselves, which one is going to be first to declare he/she will ban the Saltire from the UK. All Scottish branding to be removed (although I think this is already a work in progress)

      Hancock is an also ran, along with Culloden Hunt, I think we’ve had Hancock’s Half Hour, time for him exit stage left.

    58. Pete says:

      I see Natalie McGarry has got her due desserts at last!

    59. CameronB Brodie says:

      I think I’ve already mentioned that it all boils down to semiotics. It is clear to see that in the minds of some, England owns Scotland and British nationalism is to be a compulsory act of Brexitanian citizenship. Well, fuck that for a fascist game of soldiers.

      Power in society, economy, and mentality:
      Towards a semiotic theory of power>

      Abstract

      It is a well-known fact that power is closely connected with signs, but usually this connection is thought to be “after the fact”: signs representing a power whose origin could be understood in non-semiotic terms. In this paper, a different view is introduced: power is an inherently semiotic phenomenon, which can be analyzed with concepts of cultural semiotics.

      To reach this aim, the three areas of culture defined in Roland Posner’s theory of cultural semiotics are taken as basis for definitions of three types of power: power of position, power of disposition, and power of interpretation. These main types of power are delimitated from each other, further differentiated and carefully examined in their semiotic as well as sociological dimensions. The conclusion is reached that the full range of power phenomena can be analyzed with the help of cultural semiotics.

      Keywords: power; authority; institutions; property; interpretation; cultural semiotics.

      https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/d199/2ba8176a72c4e32c567f05edce8d875f5b8d.pdf

    60. gary says:

      Here in Midlothian they have them next to the saltire outside schools etc.. total desperation. I knew back in 2007 when the SNP won the election that the unionists would go all out in the propaganda war..

      That was the start of BGT. britains best car… dug….. hair dresser etcccc….. mention britain at every turn.

      Photoshops of the butchers apron in every programme. Fly the Saltire. as often as posssible!!!!
      I DO!

    61. CameronB Brodie says:

      I’m trained as a town planner so I recognise methodological nationalism when I see it. This effort is meant to overwhelm your powers of reason and encourage loyalty to the One Nation ideology. This is contemporary British nationalism, which is culturally totalitarian in nature.

      The meanings of monuments and memorials: toward a semiotic approach
      https://orca.cf.ac.uk/96405/1/Bellentani_Panico_The%20meanings%20of%20monuments.pdf

    62. CameronB Brodie says:

      And I’d be shortchanging folk if I didn’t point to this.

      Political semiotics

      Abstract

      The current article is a problem-oriented look at (the image of) political semiotics from the sphere of the inquiry into the political. It first looks at the relevant features of the political and semiotics, and then addresses political semiotics, both contents-wise and as the two elements relate to each other.

      A sketch of how political semiotics exists today follows – first concerning the context of political science, and then as far as the actual output is concerned, which is then systematically evaluated. The final chapter presents three thinkers who represent different paths to possible political semiotics: Cassirer, Jung, and Uexkull. ll.

      Keywords:
      political semiotics; political science; glottocentricity; ideology; Johann J. von Uexkull ll.

      http://www.urbanlab.org/articles/Drechsler%20political%20semiotics.pdf

    63. Ottomanboi says:

      Matt Hancock missed his true métier, selling dodgy motors. Never heard him give a straight and unfluffed answer when interviewed. He’d make an excellent pm.
      Re union flag there were two versions. The Scottish version had the X of St Andrew uppermost.
      The English version has the St George symbol dominant. It’s all in the semiotics.

    64. geeo says:

      Go Gail Ross at FMQ’s.

      Mentions the National story re Spanish position, gets in sharp dig at the Non reporting by media rag who knew and ignored, presumable who she was staring at towards the media gallery.

      Brilliant.

      Will twat taylor mention it ?

      Unlikely.

    65. gus1940 says:

      O/T

      Given the previous history of the behaviour of English football ‘fans’ abroad is it or is it not the case that the ones in Madrid last weekend had been the subject of a Damascene conversion?

      Is it or is it not he case that all was sweetness and light between the Liverpool and Spurs fans and the Spanish Police?

      Or are we seeing the suppression of information by our wonderful ‘free’ press.

      All I have seen so far is a report of a fan tossing himself off in public.

    66. Legerwood says:

      Geordie says:
      6 June, 2019 at 10:23 am
      Yep, we were at the Tattoo last year and there definitely was a noticeable Jackification of the event,…””
      …………..

      That might have been because last year, 2018, they were marking the centenary of the end of World War I.

    67. This is utter claptrap! What a brilliant campaigning strategy. Talking about Culloden and Union Flags – they’ll be banning Braveheart and Outlander next.

      I worked as a musician at the BBC in London for 32 years and it’s fascinating to look back over those years and realise how it slowly went downhill. We needed to have an I.D. card and for decades it had the BBC Crest on the top section.
      About 15 years ago we had to get new I.D. cards and I didn’t even notice that the BBC Crest had been removed. It was about a week later when our manager explained to us that a Boardroom decision had been taken that only the most important people within the BBC would be issued with an I.D. card with the said crest – their logic being that it would inspire us to work harder and aim for promotion so that we could eventually obtain the crest on our I.D. card. No-one thought that the opposite message would be created that after 25 years hard slog, your employer didn’t think you were actually that important to them.

      Who decided the categorisation of ‘who is the most important’ employee?
      Are the programme makers more important than the managers sitting in their offices?
      With one stupid decision they alienated many people and so these Tory hopefuls are actually showing that none of them is mature enough, nor capable enough to be a serious contender for the position.

      A load of arrogant, narcissistic loudmouths.

    68. Sorry

      I have to comment on the hypocrisy of all these important UK politicians wittering on about the D-day commemorations in one breath and promoting Brexit in the next .
      Don’t they see how ridiculous THEY are to celebrate the co-operation and courage that created the Europe we have whilst sleepwalking into destroying that exact same Europe.

      If only one politician would come back and say – ‘what are we doing? Cancel Brexit.
      These brave young people didn’t die 75 years ago for us to destroy it all with our stupid Brexit.

      Grrrr… Oh, well, never mind, just unfurl the Union Jack and it will all be ok.

    69. HandandShrimp says:

      I had never heard of this chap until his leadership campaign but he does appear to be a bit of a zoomer. His fibs about flags and his Godwin on Corbyn suggest he is a bit Trumpish.

      I would imagine he will sink back into obscurity soon enough. After all Boris is a zoomer’s zoomer so that base is already well covered.

    70. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Meg Merrilees

      The thing is Meg, in the eyes of the Brexiteers, those ungrateful foreign Johnnies never allowed England to run things for them, so, harumph! We’re leaving the ungrateful so-and-sos to their own devices.

    71. Effijy says:

      South Lanarkshire Councilors voted to reject the Butcher’s Apron
      being taken down and replaced by the Saltire on St Andrews Day and
      for Burn’s night.

      Klunker Brown tried to say independence supporters were trying to steal the Saltire for themselves, but it belongs to Unionist Scots too?

      So Gordon your Unionist parties from Westminster own the flag too and with that ownership you decide it has no right to fly in Scotland, even for one day.

      I know where I’d like to stick my flag pole!

    72. Socrates MacSporran says:

      BBC National News – just now: “A lone piper played a lament.”

      For Fuck Sake, Heilan Laddie a lament.

      Time we were away from such useless, thick, English fannies.

    73. robertknight says:

      Supermarkets are already awash with Yoon-yin Jackery on Scottish products. Doesn’t this idiot realise that their multi-coloured attempts to wipe Scotland off the map simply won’t work?

    74. Craig P says:

      Den Cairns – love it. Mandatory UJ in the corner of The News Where You Are. But only if you’ve paid your TV license 😉

    75. Robert Louis says:

      So, at least now we can say for certainty, that this business of plastering everything and anything in the shops with big f*** off union jacks, is at the behest of England’s government. Now we know for sure, and as we all suspected. It is DELIBERATE westminster government policy.

      People say, oh, but it’s just a flag. It isn’t it is a symbol of the subjugation of Scotland by an English government in Westminster. It is an abominable flag, literally dripping with the blood of innocents from throughout history, the butcher’s apron.

      As others point out, nothing, literally nothing will increase my desire for Scottish independence, and absolute hatred of unwanted Westminster colonial rule and interference of Scotland than putting up more f*** off union jacks.

      All my life, I have seen that cursed union jack above Edinburgh castle, and I long for the day it is taken down, It is an insult to Scotland and the people of Scotland. It is a reminder to Scotland, ‘know your place, you are a colony of England’. It is a f****** disgrace, and every time I see that hideous colonial flag flying on the castle, I despise it. It is NOT the flag of Scotland, and NEVER will be.

      The union jack, is a hideous flag, stained with the innocent blood of Scots murdered in cold blood by the hanoverian army, in the highlands in 1746, at the behest of the German born English king. Yet still we get English folk buying guest houses and hotels in the highlands, then flying the odious union jack, instead of the flag of Scotland. It is an abomination.

      The day the very last colonial union jack is taken down or burned down in Scotland, is the day I will rejoice, because like all the other former colonies of England, we will at last be free.

      Boycott all and any goods or services bearing the union jack. If it;s got a jack, put it back.

    76. Giving Goose says:

      Of course you all may be overlooking the fact that this is a cunning ploy to reduce greenhouse gas and carbon emissions.
      If we all wiped our arse with a union jack flag then it would save on trees.
      Non?

    77. CameronB Brodie says:

      Socrates MacSporran
      I don’t think they are necessarily thick, simply insensitive to the culture and innate value of Others. This stems from English/British cultural myopia and a cultural psychology of inherited, historical, supremacy. This is part of Britain’s colonial legacy. That or they are gas-lighting Scotland and they are doing it deliberately. 😉

    78. Petra says:

      I wonder if the English thugs that are smashing up Porto are carrying their Union Flags?

      Anyway don’t let this get you down folks. Just think on to the day when these abominable flags are removed from every public building in Scotland (foodstuff etc). We should set a date and a time for that to happen right across our country to give the Unionists notice as to when they can have a right good Better Together greet.

    79. mumsyhugs says:

      Solemn Susannah Reid on GMB this morning commenting “and their sacrifice allowing us to be free to choose how we live our lives today” – except for viewers in Scotland of course. Oh the irony …….

    80. geeo says:

      Robert louis with empty rhetoric speech.

      You spend almost every post on here, slating and berating the only political vehicle able to deliver a road map to independence.

      Also, you ignore reality.

      It does not matter if WM ACTS like Scotland is an English Colony, as LEGALLY it is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING OF THE KIND.

      WM can behave as if it is the Parliament of England, but again, IT IS NOT.

      This has been explained literally hundreds of times on here.

      Which part of those explanations gives you difficulty ?

      Describing Scotland as an English Colony is no more than subliminal subjugation.

      Unless of course, you caveat such a comment with “they THINK we are a colony, but they are WRONG”.

      Also worth noting, and people rarely mention this in union flag rants, that it is not the England flag either.

      After Scotland takes her leave from the Treaty of Union and dissolves the United Kingdom, the union flag becomes rather obsolete, like the now, rather hillbilly associated confederate flag in parts of the American south.

      Who cares what they fly outside Scotland post Yes, however, certainly not me.

    81. Robert Louis says:

      Does anybody know how to get hold of those wee saltire stickers they used to sell at the bonnie badge company?

    82. kapelmeister says:

      Hancock’s union Jack plan to prevent independence is reminiscent of John Major’s response in the early 1990s to the growing demand for devolution. Major thought the solution was not to have any devo, just “make Scotland more like England”.

    83. Robert Louis says:

      Giving goose at 132pm,

      A brilliant idea, and it’ll keep the greens happy too.

    84. Sinky says:

      Jack Collatin says:@ 11.29 you should write (rather than email) to the CEO of Lidl at address on website (or any other supermarket and ask them to explain particularly if it is Scottish produce wrapped in a Union Flag.

      https://www.keepscotlandthebrand.scot/

      Speaking at a special seminar in the Scottish Parliament, the mother of Andy and Jamie Murray also said she believed more money could be driven into the game if there was a Scottish tennis team.

      Giving a talk as part of a series of seminars in Holyrood by leaders in sport, she said that Tennis Scotland received just £700,000 from the Lawn Tennis Association – around one per cent of the organisation’s budget of £64 million.

      She said tennis “was and is” a minority sport in Scotland and added: “In tennis you can’t play for Scotland – you have to play as part of GB. In some ways this is a disadvantage. If you were able to play for Scotland you could grow it [tennis] through a sense of identity, but it’s a GB sport.”

      https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/murray-a-scottish-team-could-make-more-children-play-tennis-1-4941707

    85. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Meg merrilees @ 12:52,

      A very illuminating story there, Meg. It goes well beyond the BBC, and reflects the zeitgeist. The increasing disconnect between those at “the top of the tree” and the rest of us.

      Your later observation on D-Day commemorations is very apposite. It was the shared experiences in the services under fire that made the post-war social advances possible. The advances from which we have all greatly benefitted since. But that cohesion is gone now, and according to those in charge, we can’t afford it any more, although their own salaries seem to know no limit.

      They mouth their platitudes and wave their flags while blindly undermining the post-war framework that has ensured we wouldn’t have to suffer all that agony again.

    86. Republicofscotland says:

      The inane mentality of some, correction all, of those PM candidates never fails to amaze me.

      I’d like to say well done to passionate John Swinney today standing in for the FM on FMQ’s.

    87. kapelmeister says:

      Sinky@ 1:45

      Well said Judy Murray. The British Lawn Tennis Association’s neglect and thwarting of Scotland has long been scandalous. Doubly scandalous considering that it has been Andy and Jamie who have provided British tennis with a lot of its success stories.

    88. Sinky says:

      It turns out that Spain’s top diplomat in Scotland wrote to the Herald to explain that Spain *will not* block an independent Scotland joining the EU, but they didn’t publish it.

      And Herald supposed to be one of the more neutral newspapers!

      The Scotsman is now more even handed than the Herald nowadays and that’s saying something.

    89. Robert Louis says:

      Republicofscotland at 149pm,

      What I find odd about the Tory leadership contest, is that so many of them are behaving as though it is a general election. Putting out videos, trying to be ‘down with the kids’ etc, like the public has a vote, but it doesn’t. Only Tory folk get to vote.

      It is quite unlike any previous Tory leadership contest.

    90. chicmac says:

      Hancock’s half hour of hubris.

      The original comedian had more gravitas.

    91. Robert Louis says:

      Just wondering, is there a law preventing a Scottish tennis team and organisation being set up? In N.Ireland for instance, the governing body is Tennis Ireland, based in Dublin – I think.

      So why can Scotland NOT go its own way with Tennis?

    92. kapelmeister says:

      chicmac@ 1:59

      Not just Hancock’s half hour. The whole farcical Tory PM race should be called Carry On Jack.

      Boris Johnson playing the Sid James role. Esther McVey standing in for Joan Sim. Jeremy Hunt as Jim Dale. And of course Rory Stewart as Charles Hawtrey.

    93. carjamtic says:

      My youngest one’s last day of secondary school, required parental attendance as all the leavers received their certificates.
      Traditionally an ex pupil who had done good, gives a 5 minute speech before each pupil’s hand was shaken and certificate handed over.

      We were quite excited as the previous year the ‘ex’ was a Scotland International footballer, who would it be ? it was always a well kept secret and not revealed to the very last minute, speculation mounted as the big day approached.

      It was a bit of a damp squid when the young headmaster introduced a Julie Walters lookalike (complete with trouser suit) and informed us she worked in television (Low mummerings around the room….never heard of her,who is she ?).

      The speech was enlightening though,British this,British that and some more British with bells on, how proud she was, however the highlight, without doubt was the greatest moment of her career……being selected as only,one of five journo’s invited onto DT aeroplane to conduct an interview with the little big man himself, imagine a wee girl from the village she spouted proudly.

      I watched the faces of the school staff, particularly the heady change from shock and horror to cringe but somehow everyone got through it.

      Afterwards I asked my youngest and his mates what they made of it,we didn’t listen, they informed me,but took delight in stepping up to receive their certificates as they all had their shiny saltire pin badges on their blazer lapels and the ‘ex’ was reacting as if kryptonite, sides splitting and falling about with laughter,these ,informed young people had the perfect riposte to an obvious mini mental breakdown as well sudden realisation of her Allodoxaphobia, just smile and say nothing.

      Now to rewatch USS Callister on Netflix

    94. Davie Oga says:

      About 400 000 people play tennis in England and Tennis Scotland has about 45 000 members yet Tennis Scotland gets 1% of
      LTA funding.

      More pooling and sharing/ theft.

    95. CameronB Brodie says:

      The thing is, planning for sustainability at the local level aims to remove ideology from the environment, which is bad, mk. Ideology in the landscape imposes meaning and constrains functionality. Anyhoo, I thought I’d offer a wee insight into land-use planning practice, which begins with a semiotic site analysis, but I think this more practical knowledge instead, for those that are interested, obvs.

      Introducing Social Semiotics

      Introducing Social Semiotics is a lively introduction to the ways in which different aspects of modern society combine to create meaning. These ‘semiotic resources’ surrounding us include obvious modes of communication such as language, gesture, images and music, but also less obvious ones such as food, dress and everyday objects, all of which carry cultural value and significance.

      Introducing Social Semiotics uses a wide variety of texts including photographs, adverts, magazine pages and film stills to explain how meaning is created through complex semiotic interactions. Practical exercises and examples as wide ranging as furniture arrangements in public places, advertising jingles, photojournalism and the rhythm of a rapper’s speech provide readers with the knowledge and skills they need to be able to analyse and also produce successful multimodal texts and designs.

      The book traces the development of semiotic resources through particular channels such as the history of the press and advertising; and explores how and why these resources change over time, for reasons such as advancing technology. Featuring a full glossary of terms, exercises, discussion points and suggestions for further reading, Introducing Social Semiotics makes concrete the complexities of meaning making and is essential reading for anyone interested in how communication works.

      https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/aca7/c8ffa23c38b05faede391273a4130fc28b4a.pdf

    96. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      carjamtic @ 14:11,

      Very amusing, but it also made me think. For this “ex-” journo person, success was obtained via a British context, very possibly after migrating down south, but certainly working for a UK-wide employer. Being “British” is associated in the minds of such folk with being aspirational. This was (and likely still is) very much the NorthBritLab attitude. Their brightest and best would naturally gravitate to Westminster and the hope even of government positions.

      So opposition to unionism is for such people an assault on personal aspiration, a denial of the best possibilities, ones which can never be available back home (and never mind the wider world of a European context). Another manifestation of The Cringe, more subtle than some but no less powerful for all that.

      We need to break that link in peoples’ minds by showing that personal advancement is perfectly possible within a Scottish context, and also within a far wider context than merely “down south”, and moreover without having to lose one’s identity in the process.

    97. Robert Peffers says:

      @Joe says: 6 June, 2019 at 11:23 am:

      ” … Lets just not go mindlessly into the arms of the Eurozone with lies like ‘independent country in the EU’.”

      Joe, you are wasting your time attempting to spout Britnat propaganda here on Wings. Most Wingers are very well aware that the EU is a parliament of independent countries MEPs. You just won’t get away with your lies.

      Every EU Member state, even little Luxemburg, gets their Buggin’s Turn as the president of the EU. Every EU member state has a veto and the EU has no way to enforce EU recommendations.

      fully one third of EU Member states do not use the Euro and there is no compulsion for them to do so. The UK propaganda about the EU setting up EU armed forces is also bullshit.

      Just consider that NATO has international armed forces and the UK is part of it. Thing is each NATO state has their own independent armed forces that combine for NATO exercises or for NATO actions. So what is so wrong with the EU having the same arrangement?

      The EU has no plans for anything other that each EU State having its own armed forces that will combine when needed as a unified force when and if needed. That’s co-operation not conscription.

      Point being that the UK is all the tings you are claiming the EU to be. See here’s a thing, Joe, I’m old enough to have been conscripted by the UK to do National Service. The UK has four countries all in the same armed forces and in wartime they don’t think twice about conscripting Scots, Welsh and N. Irish into their English Armed Forces.

      They force three other countries into using Bank of England currency but the EU forces no one into use of the Euro. The UK forces Westminster economic policies upon every UK country. The EU doesn’t but there are conditions if the EU state has signed up to the Euro but no one forces them into use of the Euro.

      Get the Picture now? The EU works by democracy and consensus and forces no one. The UK kids on it is Democratic but it isn’t and it compelled everyone to do things their way.

      As I’ve pointed out already every EU member state has a veto and can stop EU regulations by vetoing them. Furthermore the EU doesn’t force member states to adopt EU regulations – unless, of course they have signed up to something and then try to back-track on things they signed up to.

      However if a member state doesn’t sign up to something they don’t get forced to abide by EU recommendations.

      Here are the EU states that have never adopted the Euro:-

      Bulgaria, Croatia, Czech Republic, Denmark, Hungary, Poland, Romania, Sweden, and the United Kingdom. All EU members that have never used the euro.

      By the Way here is another lie the Britnats tell – There is no queue to join the EU and there never ever has been. What prevents states from being accepted right away as EU members is that they do not comply with EU, (mainly currency), conditions.

      In the case of Scotland we have complied with all EU conditions as we have been EU citizens since the EU first began.

    98. Bobp says:

      Socrates MaCsporran. Where’s that Drongan?? Lol.

    99. Robert P@ 2.40 pm
      WE should C&P your excellent post and shove it down Blair McDougall’s throat the next time he drags himself away from his doubtless essential Labour Party work, to twitter us all about being too poor, la dee la dee la.
      What will they put in the Project Fear Mix II?
      Well done, sir.
      As this wee Tory chinless wonder confirms: they see the Butcher’s Apron as a symbol of oppression, suppression, and English domination of their Last Colony.
      IT will get very rough when it becomes obvious that they cannot stop Scotland on the march to Self Determination.
      It won’t be just a handful of Nutjobs and a megaphone.
      There are many thousands of idiots in Scotland primed and prepared to don their Union Jack cloaks and riot.
      When we vote YES next time, expect a violent backlash.

    100. Scozzie says:

      Talking for flags….living in Oz these past few years but still a determined independence supporter, it’s interesting to see the differences in national pride.

      A few thoughts…
      There’s absolutely no ‘proud Aussies but’ syndrome, in fact they think it’s the best country in the world – and that’s a direct quote from EVERY Aussie I meet (some of which who have never even traveled overseas). This pride is ingrained in them from a young age. Their national pride can be OTT at times and you even hear of the ‘Aussie Dream’ (just like the USA). But in many ways I guess it’s to be admired, I wish ALL our own Scottish folk felt pride in their country.

      There’s no harking back to the ‘mother land’. Yeah while they don’t seem too fussed about Queenie one way or another to become a true Republic, at the same time, she is inconsequential and I’m sure becoming a Republic will happen one day.

      They fly flags (homes, municipal buildings, etc) and are proud of their flag, they sing their national anthem at school assembly every week. Although, have to say I think the national anthem at school is a bit OTT, but in the same sense, already I have a 5 year old who feels very Aussie so obviously it works in terms of national pride (perhaps a little bit of indoctrination)!!!!! I’d love to see the butcher’s apron completely gone from Scotland and only the Saltire flown.

      The Aussies are optimistic and I feel in comparison we Scots have a pessimistic tone – I have friends in Scotland at the 2014 referendum who referred to our country as ‘Shiteland’ god, that saddened me so much.

      I don’t know what it takes to build pride, optimism and determination in everyone in our country (which I hope to return to live), but we seem to have an inferiority complex and sometimes living overseas really hits you between the eyes in ways that’s not so obvious when living in amongst it.

      I want only the very best for my country, that I love with all my heart, but I think we also need to grasp the nettle and show some balls in the same way that I see in this country that I temporarily live in!!!!

    101. Joe says:

      @Robert Peffers

      I didnt get past this:

      ‘Joe, you are wasting your time attempting to spout Britnat propaganda here on Wings.’

      EU skepticism is not the same as being a ‘Britnat’. The fact you’d try to pull that shows me more of how dishonest you are.

      Any country in the Eurozone:

      A – cannot make its own trade deals with 3rd party countries

      B- has much of its immigration laws superceded by EU laws (EU family permit and Surinder Singh Ruling as examples which allow access to a member state by non-EEA nationals)

      C – has absolutely no control over monetary policy (The ECB is even independant of the EU commission)

      A country in that position is absolutely not ‘independent’.

      It is a FALLACY to say that a country is independent in the Eurozone.

      If you reply, try not to deliberately mislabel me and try and keep strawmen to a minimum and I might actually finish reading. Cheers

    102. McDuff says:

      The most prominent flag in the Union Jack
      is the st george, telling us “we are in charge”.
      Watched some coverage of England’s invasion of Normandy,Scottish , Welsh and Irish accents notably absent. The baffoon Somes commented, “from London to Portsmouth to the royal family, wonderful show”. The rUK simply does not exist.

    103. Joe says:

      lol. Still laughing: looking critically at the EU = Britnat propaganda.

      Is anybody else on here so mindless as to automatically conflate those 2? Does anyone else buy that Scottish people have only 2 choices: UK or EU?

    104. Bobp says:

      Robert lewis 1.23pm. Your right there robert, there are quite a few english people who have bought hotels and guesthouses in the republic of ireland. Betcha they wouldnt have the balls to fly a union jack there.

    105. carjamtic says:

      RJS @ 2:39

      Absolutely, the ‘ex’ is in ex pupil, not ex journo…..(possibly now in charge now of BBC Grampian/Aberdeen although I never watch it).

      Very similar profile, as you stated,good shout, mainly good people to, but I gave up feeling sorry for them a long long time ago.

    106. Robert Peffers says:

      @Joe says:6 June, 2019 at 3:13 pm:

      ” … I didnt get past this:
      ‘Joe, you are wasting your time attempting to spout Britnat propaganda here on Wings.’”

      ” … EU skepticism is not the same as being a ‘Britnat’. The fact you’d try to pull that shows me more of how dishonest you are.”

      So, Joe, you talk about EU,”Scepticism”,(sic) but then proceed to spout a load of Britnat lies. And then in spite of being told the truth here, and with proofs, you once more go again with the same lies.

      Every claim you have made about the EU is a downright lie.

      Can you deny that every EU member state has a veto over EU parliamentary decisions?

      Can you deny that no EU member state is compelled to use the Euro?

      Can you deny that every EU member state gets their turn of the EU presidency?

      Can you deny that all the EU has proposed as an EU armed force is no more than each member state pledging their support in an NATO like alliance?

      You cannot and thus all your claims made against the EU are just lies.

      I’m now finished with you. You have proven yourself no more than a liar. The EU is none of the things you claim them to be and there is plenty of proof to back that up.

    107. Sheryl Hepworth says:

      Robert Peffers @ 2.40pm
      Well said that man!! Good one!!

    108. CameronB Brodie says:

      Joe
      You know fine well that members of the EU can not be forced to join the Eurozone. You really do object to immigration, which Scotland desperately needs. You appear to feel your interests are more important than Scotland’s. The Euro is only applicable to members of the Eurozone, which members of the EU can’t be forced to join. Are you proud of your prejudice?

      ——-

      re. “what it takes to build pride, optimism and determination”. Think of the dereliction and deprivation of Britain’s inner-cities of the 1970s and ’80. That was caused by institutional racism, cultural intolerance, under-investment in social cohesion and a general lack of a systematic approach to addressing the effects of globilisation.

      Now, think of the marginalised victims of late capitalist modernity, stuck in a shabby flat in a peripheral scheme, no money, no prospects, no hope. That’s Scotland in Brexitania, that is.

      The Cognitive Self: The Self-Concept
      Development and Characteristics of the Self-Concept

      Part of what is developing in children as they grow is the fundamental cognitive part of the self, known as the self-concept. The self-concept is a knowledge representation that contains knowledge about us, including our beliefs about our personality traits, physical characteristics, abilities, values, goals, and roles, as well as the knowledge that we exist as individuals.

      Throughout childhood and adolescence, the self-concept becomes more abstract and complex and is organized into a variety of different cognitive aspects of the self, known as self-schemas. Children have self-schemas about their progress in school, their appearance, their skills at sports and other activities, and many other aspects. In turn, these self-schemas direct and inform their processing of self-relevant information (Harter, 1999), much as we saw schemas in general affecting our social cognition.

      These self-schemas can be studied using the methods that we would use to study any other schema. One approach is to use neuroimaging to directly study the self in the brain. As you can see in Figure 3.3, neuroimaging studies have shown that information about the self is stored in the prefrontal cortex, the same place that other information about people is stored (Barrios et al., 2008)….

      https://opentextbc.ca/socialpsychology/chapter/the-cognitive-self-the-self-concept/

    109. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Joe @ 15:13,

      Oh dearie me. Another outing for delusionist lies and misdirections, just like BT. For one thing, deliberately conflating the Eurozone with the EU. You’ll be telling us next that entry into the Euro is compulsory. Duh, you must think we’re all as dumb as you.

      Oh, do tell us: whatever happened to the £350M a week for the NHS…?

    110. I see ‘British’ fans have been rioting in Porto.
      It is reported that the ‘British’ fans are chanting ditties like@ 10 German Bombers’ and ‘Fuck the Pope and the IRA’.
      Lest any reader felt that I was engaging in hyperbole, these are the amassed hordes of Brit Nat Blackshirts that will be unleashed in Scotland when we eventually achieve Self Determination.
      Of that, I have no doubt.
      Read Mike Small’s excellent piece over on Bella.
      I’d imagine that the vast majority of Europeans watching this mob are murmuring under their breath: ‘Good riddance, to bad rubbish’, in French,Spanish, German, and Lowland Scots, Doric, and Gallic.

    111. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      carjamtic @ 15:37,

      Sorry, I wasn’t attempting to imply your “personality” was an ex-journo. It’s actually the fact that they are currently in positions of influence that is concerning. But if she is BBC, it wouldn’t surprise me in the least.

      These folk are so personally invested with UKOK, the alternative is likely a very scary place for them. Hence the institutional blanking out of that alternative. They probably honestly believe they are acting fairly while subconsciously minimising and even blanking out the reality on our screens. While more and more the rest of us just look on and shake our heads.

    112. Del G says:

      The tattoo is run by the british military, therefore part of the uk establishment. Wasn’t there an earlier attempt to project a saltire onto the castle from Princes street, turned down because it was too political?

    113. Liz g says:

      Joe @ 3.21
      No Joe,there’s none here that dum.
      Of Course we have a choice… But twice now the Scottish Electorate have chosen the EU.
      And once the UK…
      This throws up a “circumstance” for Scotland in which Scotland cannot have both!
      We cannot out vote the English and make them stay nor should we
      So our choice is indeed the UK or the EU,clearly if Scotland votes to stay with the Westminster Union then that tells us Scotland is now happy to reject the European Union.
      But if Scotland votes to reject the Westminster Union then,it would be foolish to argue that EU membership was also in dispute.
      Free Scots, are of course free, to argue that the deal made between Scotland and the EU doesn’t suit us when the time comes….. But that’s not what we’re arguing now…..

    114. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      me @ 16:16,

      That should be “more and more of the rest of us”.

    115. Welsh Sion says:

      Robert Lewis @ 1.23 pm
      Bobp @ 3.33 pm

      An old story – but still relevant.

      Common enemies.

      news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/north_west/6201952.stm

    116. CameronB Brodie says:

      Time for a bit of Community Psychology and stuff? IMHO, this points to why the government of Scotland would be better done in Scotland, for Scotland’s benefit. Not poorly administrated in a remote parliament that contains little knowledge of, or empathy for, Scotland and what Scotland needs (see the full-English Brexit).

      The Importance of Place and Connectedness

      Place as Territory and Place as People

      An understanding of place is fundamental to the concept of livability, including transportation-related aspects of livability. People live in places, move within and between places, and depend on the movement of goods to and from places. The individual characteristics of places are vital in determining quality of life…

      https://www.nap.edu/read/10262/chapter/5

    117. Davosa says:

      Hancock must be one of the thickest of all the solid gold plated erseholes running for the Liar Leadership. I thought Leadsom was really incredibly stupid but Hancock FFS !

    118. Dorothy Devine says:

      Watched RT so that I didn’t have to watch ‘how we won the war’ again.

      RT put up numbers of deaths comparing the western front with D day – utterly horrendous yet we finger point at Russia all the time.

      To hear the great Obama ( not my great I hasten to add) more or less say America won the war in one of his speeches and to be aware of the finger pointing by the previous Potus and the present Potus is to distort history bigtime.

    119. CameronB Brodie says:

      OK, that was probably more “stuff” than Community Psychology, but I could only find an abstract to the paper I wanted to post. Anyhoo, time for some environmental psychology and stuff important to the principles of “Ubuntu” and the “clinical-legal model” of social change?

      Displacing place-identity: A discursive
      approach to locating self and other

      Questions of `who we are ’ are often intimately related to questions of `where we are ’, an idea captured in the environmental psychological concept of place-identity. The value of this concept is that it attends to the located nature of subjectivity, challenging the disembodied notions of identity preferred by social psychologists.

      The topic of place-identity would thus seem to be a productive point around which the sub-disciplines of social and environmental psychology might meet, answering calls for greater disciplinary cross-fertilization. This study contributes to this project by presenting a sympathetic but critical evaluation of research on place-identity. It argues that such research is valuable in that it has established the importance of place for creating and sustaining a sense of self.

      However, drawing on recent developments in discursive approaches to social psychology, the authors identify several limitations with existing work on place-identity. This critique is then developed through analysis of an ongoing research programme located in the changing landscapes of the new South Africa.

      https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/f278/1ea5ad84e4cf3a6c6b61efc67b75f127b9da.pdf

    120. JMD says:

      They can’t possibly be stupid enough to think that further uj saturation in Scotland will somehow reduce support for indy, I think it’s just deliberate trolling, to what end I don’t know.

    121. Alba Woman says:

      Folk in Rutherglen have the dubious pleasure of seeing the Union Jack flying from the town hall 365 days for ever. The incoming SNP administration appears to be quite satisfied with this situation. No saltire ever appears to fly from the battlements of Rutherglen town hall.

    122. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Liz g @ 16:18,

      The advent of independence does put supportive Leavers in rather a quandary, there’s no denying it, since it is likely that a free Scotland would opt by a significant majority to remain/re-enter the EU (however it works out).

      Democracy is like that. We don’t always get our personal preferences, and that is not going to change. Our elected governments might even at times make mistakes that we come to regret. But they will be our choices, and our mistakes, not something forced upon us by someone else who is not even trying to act in our interests.

      In present times, isolationism is a powerful drug, but we might hope that in a new polity a better understanding of the realities might act as an antidote. We shall (hopefully) see.

      In the meantime, what best to do? How would acting as splitters who sow division and even encourage a vote against the SNP possibly help? How can they imagine that relying on a continuing Union to deliver their desired outcome on this one issue would somehow not also leave them perpetually imprisoned in a (likely deteriorating) system in which they would remain even more marginalised than ever? One is strongly reminded of the old bible story of Esau, who sold away his precious inheritance for a desired trifle.

      That’s why I tend to believe that those who claim allegiance to the cause of independence but publicly rail loudly at the EU with the familiar BT-wise scare stories and lies are not what they seem. More likely to be trouble-making Faragists or bots.

      Thankfully, judging by the latest election results, most EU-sceptics can see through this kind of dirty tactic and understand the bigger picture. Most admirably, Nicola had the principle and courage to put her position and that of her party on the line, and came through with colours flying.

    123. JMD says:

      Caesar! woman 4.51

      Is anyone taking the trouble to let these cretins, SNP or otherwise, know that their action in not removing the uj is repugnant to many – perhaps a majority – of the locals?

      If not, why not?

    124. JMD says:

      “Caesar!” came up as Caesar! Is Caesar! unacceptable to WoS?

    125. Smeddum says:

      Matt Hancock is using the Donal Trump playbook: tell lies, hope they stick, and then deny what you said, or re-invent it if you’re called out. Apart from his obvious ignorance of the Edinburgh Festivals, does this so-called candidate to be Prime Minister not know that Culture is a devolved matter?

      Regardless of what supermarkets and others do, this is something a government Minister should think about before he speaks. As they all do. Not.

    126. Breeks says:

      Vote for Independence, and we’ll remove the Union Jacks from everywhere except the history books.

      UK will 2K

    127. Tatu3 says:

      “THERESA May could delay her resignation as Prime Minister until she is confident her replacement as Tory leader can command confidence of the House of Commons, it has emerged.”

      http://archive.is/kKVbZ

    128. Breeks says:

      UK will be 2K

      I meant to say….

      Jeezo. How short a sentence can I write and still include a typo??? It’s like a gift that keeps on giving, except it takes something away.

    129. galamcennalath says:

      On WoS twitter I say the text … “more flegs as the answer to 60 years of declining support for the union”.

      That’s something I’ve been wondering about – when did support for the Union start to falter.

      Suggesting 60years .. from 1959. That is certainly when the official Unionist party was never to gain a majority again. Then in merged with English Conservatives.

      However, no one can deny the Labour carried the torch of unionism through the 60s to 80s.

      Winnie Ewing won Hamilton in 1967, 52 years ago. However, in 1945, Robert McIntyre had done the same at Motherwell. The National Covenant for Home Rule was signed by two million people between 1949-51. It was ignored.

      I think …

      – the Union is fragile and has never been completely accepted by Scots
      – the Union’s peak was probably during the ‘big state’ period 1945-1980
      – devolution has proven decisions about Scotland are best made here
      – with few UK institutions left, the Union is now in terminal decline

    130. mike cassidy says:

      “Which bit of EU law is stopping us improving education or tackling child poverty?”

      The guy who today may be voted in as the Brexit Party’s first Westminster MP replied what?

      https://twitter.com/BBCr4today/status/1128204322376953856

    131. call me dave says:

      Jings!

      Canadian Open golf & 75th fly past of a Lanc + some others planes halts play for 5 mins.

      Most impressive and due deference from all watching and playing.

      So try as I might to get away from it all it still catches me out 🙂

      PS:
      My father was in Lancs in a pathfinder sqdn…rear gunner.

      He was bombing places on 5th June according to his log book which he kept (against orders) after the war.

      Never spoke much about it…best not, he used to say, except he said ” I liked the idea of getting home every day”

      Why he ever went down the pits again is a mystery.

    132. Galamcennalath

      Do you think it is a result of finding oil?

      I was at school in the 60’s/early 70’s and had an SNP badge on my blazer in 1968 and remember all the talk of oil around then.

      I remember reading that until war rationing, Scotland was considered a separate country and ‘valuable partner’ in the Union but with rationing, it became ‘the Scottish region’ for distribution purposes and it would seem that title stuck.

    133. Tom says:

      Reply to Geordie (as I can’t find a reply button).

      I was at the tattoo as well last year, and when the GSTQ came on the people behind me were really enthusiastic. (English), I looked at my daughter to my right and the Australians to my left, with a WTF look. The Australians had the same thought.

    134. mike cassidy says:

      JMD 4.57

      Of course its unacceptable.

      As Caesar himself said

      Infamy! Infamy! They’ve all got it infamy

      I’ll get my toga.

    135. kapelmeister says:

      Richard Leonard at FMQs accuses the SNP of letting the Westminster Tory government off the hook.

      The reality is clear though.

      It’s Labour’s 2014 campaign rhetoric that only a No vote would safeguard Scotland’s EU status and only a No vote would safeguard the Scottish NHS.

      It’s Labour’s 2019 failure to oppose Brexit and Labour’s refusal to support a second indyref.

      It’s all that from Labour that has left the people of Scotland on the Tory/Brexit Party hook.

    136. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      mike cassidy @ 17:30,

      It was actually Robespierre (as channelled by Kenneth Williams). =grin=

      (But those dastardly “Europeans” anyway. Not “us”.)

    137. If they are going to ‘Jackify’ everywhere it’s high time we pulled rank. The Saltire is an older flag than the Union Flag.
      We have huge anniversary coming up next year, 2020 with the 700th anniversary of the Declaration of Arbroath. Maybe it’s time to ‘Saltirise’ everywhere with even bigger and better Saltires.

      Come on those Scot’s lassies playing football tomorrow! Fly the Saltire for them.

    138. Welsh Sion says:

      An important article for you to share widely. (See also WGD, “Speaking power to truth”, today).

      What we knew all along – but maybe a few of your compatriots did not, Scotland.

      Spain will not veto indy Scotland in Europe.

      https://www.thenational.scot/news/17686950.spain-we-will-not-block-independent-scotlands-eu-membership/

    139. Liz g says:

      Robert J Sutherland @ 4.51
      I agree Robert,what we should do about the EU, International Relations,Defence,NHS,Social Security,Banking ect,ect,ect.in fact every bit ticket item,is a moot point.
      Unless and until we have left the Westminster Union because there is no real choice for Scot as they are so badly out voted.

      I welcome the day we will be discussing if the EU have put a decent enough deal on the table for Scotland!
      Not only because it will be the – choice – of Scotland,but also because the Scots who see a problem with joining, can tell us what they see the issues are so it will be an
      – informed choice -!!!

      Also not to mention Scotland’s E.U. membership,unlike Her United Kingdom Agreement will contain within it an Article 50 clause,which is an assurance of Sovereignty in its self.

      But personally I would go farther…
      I would argue that within Scotland’s written Constitution,there should be an Article that says something like……

      Holyrood may sign international treaties of behalf of the Sovereign People of Scotland.
      Any and All Treaties without exception must be put before the people of Scotland every 25 years for approval to continue as binding on Scotland.
      Failure to do so by Holyrood will result in the Treaty ending by default.
      ……………….

      Never again should Scotland be held in a Treaty for CENTURIES.
      No Scot born in to a Treaty agreement should be denied their say as an adult.
      We of all people’s have earned the right to make such conditions.
      And the EU might be less of an issue for Scots who don’t like it,if, they know they can never be locked in ever again.

      It does two other things too.
      Firstly….. It heads off any reunification campaign if we get our Constitution in place quickly.
      And
      Secondly… It puts an onus on all Holyrood Governments to keep Scotland able to function outside any Treaty, eg the food security that was discussed earlier in the thread.
      That’s the power of just one simple paragraph in a Constitution!!

    140. Welsh Sion says:

      Meg Merrilees @ 5.38 pm

      For your ‘special anniversary’ next year, I updated it for you.

      “For, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive and posting on Wings and Wee Ginger Dug, never will we on any conditions be brought under Westminster rule.

      It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom – for that alone, which no honest man or woman gives up but with life itself.”

    141. Out of curiosity – has anyone heard any Scottish, Welsh, Irish veterans at all being interviewed re D-Day today?

      The radio announced a veteran from a Highland regiment who when interviewed spoke with a strong, south England accent ( possibly London, mate) and whilst I respect the courage of all these men still alive or not, it seems to me absolutely obvious that South Britain won the day for us all.

    142. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Robert J Sutherland

      What a carry-on. You got your quote wrong.

      “Infamy, infamy,” was Kenneth Williams’ legendary line, as Caesar, in Carry On Cleo.

      In Don’t Lose Your Head, or Carry On Chopping as it was also known, Williams played Citizen Camembert, the big cheese in the French Revolution, a part which bore certain similarities to Robespierre, it has to be admitted.

    143. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Pressed the send button too soon. In Don’t Lose Your Head – Carry on Chopping, Robespierre was actually played, and credited as such, by Peter Gilomore, better known as Captain James Onedin.

    144. JMD says:

      Re what AhlBah woman said at 4.51 about the uj flying over Rutherglen town hall, why don’t YesRutherglen get a petition going locally which demands that they either take down the UJ and replace it with the Saltire or if they haven’t even got the balls to do that then just take down the uj and have no flag at all, just a big pointy pole pointing pointlessly up at the sky?

      It could generate a good wee buzz locally and get people talking about it, as well as email addresses at least some of these town hall officials will have Twitter accounts.

    145. mike cassidy says:

      Robert J Sutherland 5.37

      Never argue with a man who has a 50 year old O level in Latin!

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6BJJe9JV_A

    146. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Socrates MacSporran @ 17:47,

      I stand corrected. As so often on here! =grin=

      Thanks though for putting that (unintended) misinformation to a well-deserved rest.

    147. CameronB Brodie says:

      Re. citizen Camembert, sorry Robespierre. British nationalism was a political response of the British Establishment’s fears over revolution in Britain. A century or so after the French Revolution, Tory fears of the great unwashed brought us the concept of One Nation Britain. This is still being used to plunder the natural wealth of Scotland, whilst denying us a say in our political future. Marvelous.

    148. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      mike cassidy @ 18:03,

      Ah, having an equally-ancient Higher in Latin hasn’t helped me, it seems. I have been duly corrected, and due apologies to you, sir.

    149. mike cassidy says:

      Meg 5.46

      ‘We were built up to go to war’: An Irish deserter who joined D-Day invasion

      http://archive.is/Nglpy

    150. galamcennalath says:

      Meg merrilees says:

      Do you think it is a result of finding oil?

      “It’s Scotland’s Oil!

      It must have been influential, but not a game changer … because it would have changed the game.

      The BritNats did a good job of hiding just how important it should have been. Also, pre Thatcher, the UK did mean more. State owned industries employed huge numbers and all services where provided by nationalised companies. I suppose the concept of a UK played a bigger part in everyone’s lives. That’s all gone. London does absolutely nothing positive for Scotland.

    151. Greannach says:

      Mike Cassidy at 6:03pm

      “O level in Latin”. You must have got it in England, Northern Ireland or Wales. Congrats. I got an O Grade in it in the 70s.

    152. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      galamcennalath @ 18:25,

      The memory of all that, though, lingers with the older folk. Maybe even in the face of bitter reality. Wishful thinking is a powerful thing. The flag-waving BBC propaganda is directed principally at them, because they still dutifully turn out to vote.

      How to disillusion them without offending? There’s the question…

    153. Robert Peffers says:

      @Meg merrilees says: 6 June, 2019 at 5:38 pm:

      ” … If they are going to ‘Jackify’ everywhere it’s high time we pulled rank. The Saltire is an older flag than the Union Flag.”

      Ah! Meg, I see you mixed the incorrect with the correct in that bit above. Let me explain, the correct term is the Union Flag and the incorrect term is the Union Jack.

      It is not generally realised that the Union Jack is actually the smaller version of the Union Flag. These smaller versions of a countries flag are so called because they are flown from a mainly Navy Ship from the, “Jack Staff”, at the Ship’s bow.

      The rearmost staff on British ships fly the white, red of blue Ensign. Other nations, of course, fly their own nations, “Jack”, on their Jack staff.

      Here’s what Wiki says:-

      … A jack staff (also spelled as jackstaff) is a small vertical spar (pole) on the bow of a ship or smaller vessel on which a particular type of flag, known as a jack, is flown.

      The jack staff was introduced in the 18th century. The jack is typically flown from military vessels, including submarines, while at anchor or moored pier-side, but not while underway.

      Civilian vessels such as private yachts have also been known to fly the jack of the nation of their homeport, also from a jackstaff, while moored or at anchor.”

      So there you go – Union Jacks are those on ships and the others are Union Flags.

      See – you learn something new every day here on Wings.

    154. mike cassidy says:

      Greannach 6.34

      St Andrew’s High, Kirkcaldy 1968

    155. CameronB Brodie says:

      re. disillusioning without offense. This might prove helpful, IMHO. Remember, this isn’t rocket surgery, I missed those classes. 🙂

      The Social Psychology of Citizenship, Participation and Social Exclusion: Introduction to the Special Thematic Section

      Abstract

      The aim of this special thematic section is to bring together recent social psychological research on the topic of citizenship with a view to discerning the emerging trends within the field and its potential contributions to the broader interdisciplinary area of citizenship studies.

      Eight papers spanning diverse theoretical traditions (including social identity, social representations and discursive approaches) apply an array of methods to consider different aspects of citizenship across a variety of cultural and national contexts. Some focus on individuals’ perceptions and discussions of citizenship, others examine the group dynamics which flow from these understandings, and the rest examine the potential for citizenship to exclude as well as include marginalised communities.

      While diverse, the contributions share some core commonalities: all share a concern in trying to understand citizenship from the perspective of the citizen; all conceptualise citizenship as an active and reflective process occurring between members of a community; and all highlight the irreducibly social and collective nature of the experience and practice of citizenship in everyday life. We propose that these elements of convergence have the potential to give the social psychology of citizenship a solid basis and recognisable profile in order to contribute to the broader arena of citizenship studies.

      Keywords:
      social psychology, citizenship, social identity, social representations, discursive psychology, citizenship studies

      https://jspp.psychopen.eu/article/view/579/html

    156. Robert Peffers says:

      @Meg merrilees says: 6 June, 2019 at 5:46 pm:

      ” … Out of curiosity – has anyone heard any Scottish, Welsh, Irish veterans at all being interviewed re D-Day today?”

      Cannot say I have Meg and that especially as the first man up the beach in France was Scottish Piper, Bill Millin, playing his pipes. He was Lord Lovats personal piper.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Millin

    157. robbo says:

      Does anyone have further info in the daily rag’s splash here?

      Sorry if it has been covered b4 and I missed it.

      https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/fears-scotlands-poorest-22million-grant-16256421.amp?__twitter_impression=true

    158. Lenny Hartley says:

      Call me dave, the Lancaster along with Roy Chadwicks other great design the Vulcan the bestest plane ever built. Hard to believe there is only 11 years between their respective first flights.

    159. Abulhaq says:

      If Hancock wishes to ‘make sure’ Scotland has more unionist symbols he doesn’t have far to look for ‘enforcers’.
      https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/jun/06/england-fans-porto-violence-disgrace

    160. Gary says:

      It seems even the Tories don’t want him. He has little backing from the 55% of the parliamentary party who have already declared ALTHOUGH, as we all know, Tory leaders have a tendency to come from behind at the last minute and favourites to ‘fall at the first’

      And, as one SLAB politician recently said “our policy of ultra unionism has failed”

      Of course SLAB isn’t the Scottish Conservative and UNIONIST Party, is it? I notice that they used to be ‘The Conservatives’ then ‘The Scottish Conservatives’ and now ‘the Scottish conservative and UNIONIST party’ This pushing of UNIONIST has played well to former Labour voters who felt that Labour wasn’t ‘orange’ enough for them. That one small change (I know it was ALWAYS their name, but it was never actually pushed like it is now) has gotten them from being insignificant to being the opposition.

      So, for Hancock, this might play well in the Conservative Associations of Scotland. Which is all well and good but given their low membership won’t make ANY difference to his leadership bid.

      Ultimately I could see Boris NOT being put forward to the final vote. Too many parliamentarians, even those who support WTO Brexit, think he would be bad for the party and bad for the UK (which he would obv) and may go for an alternative candidate they can actually stomach, like Raab, for example.

      I believe Raab would be worse, in a way. Boris is SOOO bad he would push people towards SNP and Indy. Raab is a LITTLE more sensible and can actually string a sentence together without being racist etc.

      It wouldn’t make a difference to the Scottish support either way. If you’re a Scottish Conservative voter then either you’re rich or you’re Orange. And neither would vote for anyone other than Tory. No, it WILL make a difference in England & Wales though. The wrong candidate could see a surge in support for them at the next GE.

      Whatever happens I can see this stupid jingoism continuing for the foreseeable…

    161. Robert Peffers says:

      @Robert J. Sutherland says: 6 June, 2019 at 6:38 pm:

      ” … The memory of all that, though, lingers with the older folk.

      Hey! Stop with the sweeping generalisations – I’m not alone in never having fallen for their propaganda. If I were alone there would be no SNP now. It never bothered many prominent Scots either and I’m glad to say I knew many of them.

    162. CameronB Brodie says:

      I’ve introduced folk to critical discourse analysis, well here’s “cultural discourse analysis”, or a method of understanding human communication and social interaction. Full text for those who have the time.

      Cultural Discourse Analysis: Pragmatics of Social Interaction
      https://www.researchgate.net/publication/300633973_Cultural_Discourse_Analysis_Pragmatics_of_Social_Interaction

    163. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Did I hear that the wife of Glasgow’s only Tory councillor has been jailed?

    164. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      RE: the piper at Normandy today.

      I don’t know about ITV (Morganphobia) but all the reports on BBC Breakfast said he was playing a lament.

      On Reporting Scotland just a wee while ago, the SCOTTISH reporter also mentioned “lament”.

      “Hielan’ Laddie” has never been a lament, as far as I’m aware. Would this not have been more appropriate for an event commemorating the start of the emancipation of EUROPE? After all, it is known and played all over EUROPE.

      It was played at the event honouring the two French Commandos who were killed in Burkina Faso in early May, while rescuing hostages.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WulAWn_N_O0

      and early May, with the President of France…

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEsDynBjxII

    165. New Zealand had a referendum to see if the people of New Zealand wanted a modern national flag that celebrated the indigenous and all the different nationalities that now make up their nation
      ,

      but they voted to keep the Brutish colonial butchers apron on their flag.

    166. Marcia says:

      Dave McEwan Hill

      You must have misheard. One of the 8 Tories.

    167. Petra says:

      @ Meg says at 5:46pm ……. “Out of curiosity – has anyone heard any Scottish, Welsh, Irish veterans at all being interviewed re D-Day today?

      Not ONE nor any yesterday either, Meg. Call Kaye announced, on BBC TV yesterday, that if you were a veteran or a relative of a veteran you could call her. Eh? Disgraceful. I didn’t listen to her programme so have no idea if anyone did call in or not. This commemoration should be a stark reminder (another one) that Westminster / the BBC don’t give Jack sh*t of the massive sacrifice that Scotland has made to keep their warmongering machine well oiled and winning their wars for them. The Scots said to be the backbone of the UK Forces totally forgotten about now. Waken up Scotland, FGS.

    168. naina tal says:

      Robert Peffers at 6.51
      Understood re Union Jack v Flag. Think I’ll just keep referring to it as the Union Jack as it annoys the shit out of the unionists. Including my own brother!

    169. call me dave says:

      @Lenny Hartley

      O/T

      Aye! Lovely things aeroplanes … I built them all at that time ‘air-fix kits’ did a good job too with the painting.

      My fighter favourite was Lockheed P-38 (Yankee but fast)

      Had the insert pages from the ‘Eagle was it.. Fridays’ with the sectional drawings for these things planes /ships etc for years.
      Until my acne, spots and footie petered out and found out about college and girls. 🙁

      Wish I had them now 🙂

      Was at Loch Ness a few years back in 1990s at Urquhart Castle and a spitfire and a lancaster flew past at a very low height above the water. Quite out of the blue enjoyed… good memory. 🙂

    170. Robert Peffers says:

      @naina tal says: 6 June, 2019 at 7:32 pm:

      ” … Understood re Union Jack v Flag. Think I’ll just keep referring to it as the Union Jack as it annoys the shit out of the unionists. Including my own brother!”

      After my whole working life as a civilian working for the Admiralty I would venture a guess that those most annoyed by the misuse are sailors and mainly RN and Fleet auxiliary sailors at that.

      It is actually amazing just how much of the English language is derived from the services. Words like, “Bungalow”, are from the Indian occupation.

    171. Robert Peffers says:

      @call me dave says:6 June, 2019 at 7:47 pm:

      @Lenny Hartley

      ” … Fridays’ with the sectional drawings for these things planes /ships etc for years.
      Until my acne, spots and footie petered out and found out about college and girls. ?
      Wish I had them now ?”

      Is that the Airfix Kits or the college girls you wish you had now, Lenny?
      ;-))

    172. Socrates MacSporran says:

      I hate to argue with the Great Robert Peffers, but, “bungalow” is not of Indian derivation. It is actually an Irish term.

      Legend has it, a house build was falling seriously behind, and a site meeting was called to decide what to do. Whereupon, the Irish general foreman piped-up: “Why don’t we bung a low roof on it.” Hey presto, the bungalow had arrived.

      I’ll get my donkey jacket.

    173. Fireproofjim says:

      Briandoonthetoon
      I heard the comment about “Heilan Laddie” being a lament. Wrong of course.
      I heard earlier, by a more intelligent commentator, that “Heilan Laddie” was chosen because that was the tune played by piper Bill Millan who led the Commandos ashore on Sword Beach. The late Bill Millan confirmed this in an old interview.

    174. Legerwood says:

      O/T but not by much.

      The court case about women and their loss of pension because of the age change started today. According to the opening statement of the lawyer for the DWP the Government is not required to treat people fairly!!

      https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/jun/06/no-duty-of-fairness-to-women-hit-by-pension-age-rise-court-told

      ………..

      Former Labour councillor guilty of embezzling charity funds. Think she got Community Service

      https://stv.tv/news/west-central/1437437-former-labour-councillor-embezzled-8000-from-charity/

      Just saying.

    175. call me dave says:

      WASPI News: Guardian.

      http://archive.is/dUdOE

    176. call me dave says:

      @Robert Peffers

      One was a short lived passion and the other was high maintenance.

      I’ll let you decide. 🙂

    177. Fireproofjim says:

      Some comments here today on the concealment of information on the true value of the oil industry.
      Here’s another snippet.
      Hurricane Energy reached “first oil” yesterday on the Lancaster Field west of Shetland. This field is absolutely massive and is estimated to have 1.2 BILLION barrels of recoverable oil, and has started producing 17,000 barrels per day.
      Absolutely nothing in the papers as far as I could see.
      Certainly the treasury don’t want you to know. All that lovely oil revenues.

    178. call me dave says:

      Two: Too poors for Scotland.
      —————————————————-

      First oil produced from Lancaster field near Shetland

      http://archive.is/id4uA

      Whisky and salmon exports ‘surge’

      http://archive.is/rz3WY

    179. Sarah says:

      @ naina tal at 11.22: very amusing to read but I do hope your fingers have stopped being painful. Melted plastic UJ on your fingers – ouch!

      I was in Lidls yesterday and noticed that Scottish lettuces are now saltired and slogan is “Honest Scottish produce” whereas a month or so ago it was UJ and honest “British”. I did speak to the checkout man about it at the time – I like to think they took some notice!

    180. CameronB Brodie says:

      ” According to the opening statement of the lawyer for the DWP the Government is not required to treat people fairly!!”

      Do these clowns thick we’re all stupid or something?

      Natural Justice or Procedural Fairness

      1. Natural justice has a long and disparate history. Examples of the usage abound. The expression has theological and philosophical overtones and implications. A good instance is Lord Esher saying in 1885 that natural justice was “the natural sense of what is right and wrong”: Voinet v Barrett (1885) 55 LJQB 39 at 41, or Lord Mansfield explaining liability to repay money had and received on “natural justice and equity” in Moses v Macferlan (1760) 2 Burr 1005 at 1012; 97 ER 676.

      The expression has been said to be “sadly lacking in precision”: R v Local Government Board [1914] 1 KB 160 at 199 per Hamilton LJ. Lord Shaw had harsh things to say about it in Local Government Board v Arlidge [1915] AC 120 at 138:

      The words “natural justice” occur in arguments and sometimes in judicial pronouncements in such cases. My Lords, when a central administrative board deals with an appeal from a local authority it must do its best to act justly, and to reach just ends by just means. If a statute prescribes the means it must employ them. If it is left without express guidance it must still act honestly and by honest means.

      In regard to these certain ways and methods of judicial procedure may very likely be imitated; and lawyer-like methods may find especial favour from lawyers. But that the judiciary should presume to impose its own methods on administrative or executive officers is a usurpation. And the assumption that the methods of natural justice are ex necessitate those of Courts of justice is wholly unfounded. This is expressly applicable to steps of procedure or forms of pleading. In so far as the term “natural justice” means that a result or process should be just, it is a harmless though it may be a high-sounding expression; in so far as it attempts to reflect the old jus naturale it is a confused and unwarranted transfer into the ethical sphere of a term employed for other distinctions; and, in so far as it is resorted to for other purposes, it is vacuous.

      2. Bringing things down to earth was Ormrod LJ in Norwest Holst Ltd v Secretary of State for Trade [1978] Ch 201 at 226:

      … [T]he phrase “the requirements of natural justice” seems to be mesmerising people at the moment. This must, I think, be due to the apposition of the words “natural” and “justice”. It has been pointed out many times that the word “natural” adds nothing except perhaps a hint of nostalgia for the good old days when nasty things did not happen.

      3. Procedural fairness is a more specific name for one aspect of natural justice in its broadest sense. The change began in the 1970s. Note that the Administrative Decisions (Judicial Review) Act 1977 (Cth) shows contemporary (1970s) usage in referring to the ground that “a breach of the rules of natural justice occurred in connection with the making of the decision”. (In what follows, I address only the hearing limb of procedural fairness and I do not address the other limb, which is bias or apprehended bias.)

      4. The emphasis on a distinction between “natural justice” and “procedural fairness” is, I think, Australian and the distinction began to be developed in Kioa v West (1985) 159 CLR 550 at 583-4 per Mason J

      It has been said on many occasions that natural justice and fairness are to be equated: see, e.g., Wiseman v. Borneman; Bushell v. Secretary of State for the Environment. And it has been recognized that in the context of administrative decision-making it is more appropriate to speak of a duty to act fairly or to accord procedural fairness. This is because the expression “natural justice” has been associated, perhaps too closely associated, with procedures followed by courts of law. The developing application of the doctrine of natural justice in the field of administrative decision-making has been very largely achieved by reference to the presence of characteristics which have been thought to reflect important characteristics of judicial decision-making.

      The effect of Atkin L.J.’s influential observations in R. v. Electricity Commissioners; Ex parte London Electricity Joint Committee Co. (1920) Ltd., was to focus attention on those elements in the making of administrative decisions which are analogous to judicial determination as a means of determining whether the rules of natural justice apply in a particular case. The emphasis given in subsequent decisions to the presence and absence of these characteristics diverted attention from the need to insist on the adoption in the administrative process of fair and flexible procedures for decision-making, procedures which do not necessarily take curial procedures as their model: see Re Nicholson and Haldimand-Norfolk Regional Board of Commissioners of Police.(Citations omitted)

      https://www.fedcourt.gov.au/digital-law-library/judges-speeches/justice-robertson/robertson-j-20150904

    181. CameronB Brodie says:

      Are the Government’s lawyers actually charging for that defense?

      Administrative Procedure and Natural Law
      https://scholarship.law.nd.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=3708&context=ndlr

    182. Robert Peffers says:

      @Fireproofjim says: 6 June, 2019 at 8:49 pm:

      ” … Certainly the treasury don’t want you to know. All that lovely oil revenues.”

      Which lovely oil revenue will just be in fine time to pay for those new London flood prevention schemes we were reading about due to the rising water levels caused by climate change.

      (But they don’t want you to know that).

    183. call me dave says:

      Indycar Gordon Ross 6.6.19 –

      Spain tells Scotland that they will welcome an independent Scotland. Other things too.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibffTddZnC8

    184. HandandShrimp says:

      I see McGarry got a well skelpt behind.

      She betrayed the trust of the independence movement and the SNP and deserved to be held to account. Nevertheless, it does seem a fairly severe sentence for the amount, a guilty plea and a first offence. I am sure similar crimes such as the MPs expenses scandal didn’t see such long jail terms. In fact I think most of them were only inside for 3 or 4 months.

      Nothing if not inconsistent the law.

    185. Tam Fae Somewhere says:

      O/T

      Hurricane Energy news is really important. This proves a totally new reservoir type that may be down much of the west coast. Scotland needs to independent to enjoy the fruits of that oil though.

      Get this information spread widely!

    186. @Socrates MacSporran,

      My Irish grandfather used to convert lofts in bungalows into bedrooms,

      but that`s another storey

    187. Welsh Sion says:

      Tam Fae Somewhere @ 9.40 pm.

      Unfortunately, I didn’t see a link to the story you mentioned, so I did a bit of digging.

      I think I’ve struck oil!

      https://www.hurricaneenergy.com/application/files/7515/5971/4899/Hurricane2018tf_14335407.pdf

    188. Tam Fae Somewhere says:

      Welsh Sion – news was in a post a few above mine.

      I didn’t think the importance (for Scotland) of the news was in that link.

    189. Petra says:

      Three new articles (6/06/19).

      Professor John Robertson:-

      https://thoughtcontrolscotland.com

    190. call me dave says:

      Predict ‘British’ footie fans causing trouble tonight.

      Netherlands 3 England 1 with a few minutes to go. Ex-time

      Worse defence than Scotland. 🙂

    191. Welsh Sion says:

      The importance to Scotland in the link is this, pp.1-2:

      “About Hurricane”

      Hurricane was established to discover, appraise and develop hydrocarbon resources associated with naturally fractured basement reservoirs. The Company’s acreage is concentrated on the Rona Ridge, in the West of Shetland region of the UK Continental Shelf.

      The Lancaster ?eld (100%) is the UK’s ?rst producing basement ?eld. Hurricane is pursuing a phased development of Lancaster, starng with an Early Producon System consisng of two wells ed-back to the Aoka Mizu FPSO. This development is inially expected to produce an average of 17,000 bopd (gross producon of 20,000 bopd with assumed operating efficiency of 85%, following a period of ramp-up). First oil was achieved in June 2019.

      Hurricane’s other assets include Lincoln (50%), Warwick (50%), Halifax (100%), Whirlwind (100%), and Strathmore
      (100%). Together with Lancaster, these assets have total combined 2P reserves and 2C conngent resources of 2.6 billion barrels of oil equivalent (2.3 billion barrels of oil equivalent net to Hurricane).

    192. Lenny Hartley says:

      Robert Peffers, Call Me Dave, think the College Girls would come in handy for walking my Collie and that would give me time to read Flypast Magazine with sectional drawings of Warbirds ?

    193. Sandy says:

      OT.
      Question time with Piers Morgan & others.
      What a biased, dogmatic lump of s**t.

    194. naina tal says:

      Sarah at 9.19
      Glad my tale of woe amused you!Fingers were gowping at the time, but today only if I touch things!
      Like you,I’ve been noticing Union Jacks on the increase in Lidl. So much so that I think I might no be getting enough vitamins and stuff as my vegetables are limited only to their carrots and cauliflower. Such a peety for they’ve got smashing big saltires on the wa’.

      Mind the wee shop at the ferm has nae packaging at a’ though the fermer’s likely a Tory.

    195. CameronB Brodie says:

      Getting back to the DWP and the Government’s duty to treat people fairly. The British state takes a very relaxed and flexible approach to law and order. Best know your administrative law. 😉

      The Basis of Fairness in Administrative Law: Osborn v. The Parole Board

      The recent UK Supreme Court decision in Osborn v. The Parole Board, [2013] UKSC 61 has already provoked interesting commentary on the relationship between the common law of procedural fairness and the European Convention on Human Rights. I have nothing to add to that commentary, but one of the things I find interesting about Osborn is the discussion of the basis of fairness in administrative law.

      By “fairness”, I mean what is variously (and not always perfectly accurately) described as “natural justice”, “procedural fairness”, “duty of fairness”, “duty to act fairly” and “fair procedures” – the principle is that administrative decisions must be reached after a process that is fair to the parties concerned. This usually implies various procedural requirements – such as notice and the right to make submissions – which vary according to the context. One might not have the right to a lawyer in contesting one’s administrative law grade, but one might well have the right to a lawyer to defend a charge of plagiarism.

      But why should administrative decision-makers have to act fairly at all? Lord Reed responded sharply to the argument of lower-court judges that the purpose of fairness in administrative law is to guarantee better decision making in terms of the uncovering of facts, the resolution of issues and the concerns of the decision-maker, due consideration being given to the interests at stake.

      Lord Reed acknowledged that one of the “virtues of procedurally fair decision-making is that it is liable to result in better decisions, by ensuring that the decision-maker receives all relevant information and that it is properly tested” (at para. 67). But there is more….

      https://www.administrativelawmatters.com/blog/2013/11/06/the-basis-of-fairness-in-administrative-law-osborn-v-the-parole-board/

    196. Col.Blimp IV says:

      Robert J. Sutherland says:

      “That’s why I tend to believe that those who claim allegiance to the cause of independence but publicly rail loudly at the EU with the familiar BT-wise scare stories and lies are not what they seem. More likely to be trouble-making Faragists or bots.”

      Are you suggesting that anyone and everyone who who has reservations about the EU or Global Capitalism generally and dares voice them, has no place in the Independence movement?

      Are you suggesting we pretend to agree that black is white and white is black, if that is what the pro EU agenda dictates?

      There is a world of difference between dissenting from the official party line and conspiring to undermine the party’s stated principle objective.

      The SNP may have morphed from being a National Movement, into a political party and Rule 2 has been modified over the years by Peaceniks, Republicans and Eco-warriors.

      But so far as I can tell … Blind obedience to EU or “Leadership” diktats is not yet obligatory.

    197. CameronB Brodie says:

      As I said, the British state tends to play fast and loose with the rule-of-law, so it is advisable to know a bit about the law and stuff. In fact, the more I think about it, it is an absolutely shocking state of affairs that there are Scottish judges who are relaxed about the full-English Brexit. A decision that ignores natural law and which Scotland has been soundly shut out from.

      Fairness and the Common Law Duty to Consult

      The English courts have in recent decades recognized a common law duty to consult as an aspect of the duty of fairness. It was the subject of a comprehensive treatment by the Supreme Court in R. (Moseley) v. London Borough of Haringey, [2014] UKSC 56, though it is not clear whether Lord Wilson’s more expansive view of consultation as part of the duty of fairness at common law or Lord Reed’s emphasis on the particular statutory context will prevail in future cases.

      Lord Reed wrote, for example, at para. 35:

      There is however no general common law duty to consult persons who may be affected by a measure before it is adopted. The reasons for the absence of such a duty were explained by Sedley LJ in R (BAPIO Action Ltd) v Secretary of State for the Home Department [2007] EWCA Civ 1139; [2008] ACD 20, paras 43-47. A duty of consultation will however exist in circumstances where there is a legitimate expectation of such consultation, usually arising from an interest which is held to be sufficient to found such an expectation, or from some promise or practice of consultation.

      https://www.administrativelawmatters.com/blog/2015/01/19/fairness-and-the-common-law-duty-to-consult/

    198. CameronB Brodie says:

      I’ll never get my mind around just how dodgy the Tories and the British state are.

      FAIRNESS AND NATURAL JUSTICE IN
      ENGLISH AND SOUTH AFRICAN LAW

      PART I
      1 INTRODUCTION

      Since the landmark decision in Ridge v Baldwin’ the notion of procedural fairness in administrative decision-making has received considerable attention in England, and similar developments have taken place in the United States.2 This is not surprising in view of the development of modern government and the transformation of the administration from being primarily regulatory in nature to the major dispensary of benefits and largess affecting every complexity of the society of today.3

      This trend is manifested in England, particularly in the Court of Appeal, by the recent development of a ‘duty to act fairly’ in administrative law.4 Many judges have expressed dissatisfaction with the traditional formulation of the principles of natural justice and have adopted instead the ‘fairness’ terminology. 5

      At the same time, the approach of the judiciary in South Africa to the question of procedural safeguards and administrative law has, with notable exceptions,6 been mundane and sometimes quite sterile,7 while the notion of natural justice has been undervalued by prominent writers.”

      Yet to ignore the importance of procedural safeguards such as the principles of natural justice is to neglect the value placed upon process as a means of expressing the ideals inherent in the notion of fair administration9 and to evade the ‘very kernel of the problem of administrative justice: how far ought both judicial and administrative power to rest on common principles?’10

      https://scholarship.law.duke.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=5253&context=faculty_scholarship

    199. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Robert Peffers @ 19:17,

      This is not about you. The voting stats speak for themselves.

      In fact they shout, if you’re not too deaf to hear it.

      Or are just carnaptious and looking for an empty argument for the sake of it.

    200. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Col.Blimp IV @ 00:02:

      Are you suggesting we pretend to agree that black is white and white is black, if that is what the pro EU agenda dictates?

      It’s actually the other way round, Blimpy. The distortions, straw men, half-truths, and outright lies have all come from your Leaver camp, just like they did back in 2014 from BT. And all paid for by dirty money from dodgy sources.

      So I don’t need any lessons in truth-telling from the likes of you.

      Happily we see the proof time after time, the people of Scotland aren’t daft, and aren’t buying the dreck you’re selling. You’re on the wrong side of history. I could weep for you, but I respect my honest opponents more than my false friends.

    201. CameronB Brodie says:

      re. the full-English Brexit. I’m actually astonished there are Scottish judges who are relaxed about the full-English Brexit. Well, actually I’m not as I have a bit of a critical perspective on stuff. Please fill your boots if possible.

      Legal Theory Lexicon: Justice

      Introduction

      The connection between law and justice is a deep one. We have “Halls of Justice,” “Justices of the Supreme Court,” and “the administration of justice.” We know that “justice” is one of the central concepts of legal theory, but the concept of justice is also vague and ambiguous. This post provides an introductory roadmap to the the idea of justice. Subsequent entries in the Legal Theory Lexicon will cover more particular aspects of this topic such as “distributive justice.” As always, this post is aimed at law students (especially first-year law students) with an interest in legal theory….

      https://lsolum.typepad.com/legaltheory/2017/11/legal-theory-lexicon-justice.html

    202. CameronB Brodie says:

      While I’m on a role, this is how screwed-up the first indyref was and this is how close to full-fat fascism British nationalism has become (see Better Together and the Treasury, for example).

      International Law and Self-Determination

      The right of all peoples to self-determination is one of the core principles of international law and, by virtue of its erga omnes status, it is the responsibility of all states to ensure that this right is realised. The obstruction or violation of this principle, particularly through the use of force, constitutes a very serious violation of international law….

      https://www.diakonia.se/en/IHL/The-Law/International-Law1/IL–Self-Determination/

    203. geeo says:

      Labour win peterborough by-election by around the same as before (600 ish).

      Brexit party fail to win, lib dems behind tories.

      So much for the new world order of uk politics!!

    204. Col.Blimp IV says:

      Robert J. Sutherland says: “the people of Scotland aren’t daft, and aren’t buying the dreck you’re selling”

      “The people of Scotland” for the most part, do not read this message board, so I am not sure what makes you think I am selling them anything, far less thinly disguised Unionist Snake Oil.

      In close on 50 years of listening, watching and reading unionist propaganda and recognizing it as such – The one plausible point they have made is in pointing out the paradox of denouncing remote governance from Westminster while embracing remote governance from Brussels/Strasbourg/Berlin/Paris.

      The arguments made that the EU is beneficial/essential and that the sky will fall on our heads if we leave … are exactly the same as those made BT and rejected by us in respect of the UK.

      As for the daftness or otherwise of the Scottish public, I have never worked that one out but have noticed that the swing voters are too easily scared by real or imagined, right-wing bogeymen and consistently vote against them. Thatcher – “The Tartan Torys” – The unmasked New Labour and Nigel Farage have all bitten the electoral dust.

      So I cannot figure out why the SNP is actively trying to make the UK seem more palatable to the fearties.

    205. Iain More says:

      So how does an “alleged” anti-Semitic pro remain Labour candidate win in a by-election in a heavy leave the EU constituency that was also easily won by the Brexit Party at the EU elections?

    206. K1 says:

      Looks like a fair amount of Labour and Tory voters who voted for the Brexit party went back to their respective default parties after EU19, Greens crashed from EU bounce, Ukipians went for Brexit party and Libdems gained from Green crash? Mixed bag really.

      Here’s the EU19 results from Peterborough:

      Brexit Party: 16196
      Labour: 7272
      Liberal Democrats: 6491
      Conservatives: 4594
      Green: 4563
      UKIP: 1537
      Change UK: 1277
      English Democrats: 284
      Independent Attila Csordas: 65

      Here’s the By-election results from tonight:

      Lab: 10484
      BRX: 9801
      Con: 7243
      LD: 4159
      GRN: 1035
      UKIP: 400

    207. CameronB Brodie says:

      Did I say I was on a roll or what? Sorry for the length of this post, which I’m sure you’ll think worthwhile. Night, night. 😉

      III. The Right of Self-Determination in ICCPR and ICESCR and its Implementation

      A. The Right of Self-Determination in Common Article 1 of ICCPR and ICESCR

      Before the adoption of ICCPR and ICESCR, another important
      development concerning self-determination took place soon after the adoption of Resolution 1514: the GA passed on 15 December 1960 its Resolution 1541 which “arose as a direct result of the need to condemn Portuguese behaviour in refusing to report on its colonies…”.15 Before examining theICCPR and the ICESCR, this work will briefly cite the most important contribution of Resolution 1541 to the self-determination discourse, which would be expanded later by the Resolution 2625 passed in 1970.

      As Castellino states; “… the Resolution … defines what constitutes ‘full measure of self government’ stating that it must result in a decision where the people concerned vote in free and fair elections to decide whether to: (a) Constitute themselves as a sovereign independent State; (b) Associate
      freely with an independent State or (c) Integrate with an independent State already in existence”.16

      “In accordance with the wishes of the Assembly expressed in 1952”, both the ICCPR and the ICESCR (adopted by the GA in 1966) included the right of self-determination in their Common Article 1.17 This article stipulates in its first paragraph that;

      All peoples have the right of self-determination. By virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development.18

      According to H. Wilson, “widespread adoption of these Covenants would give the right to self-determination legal force established by treaty”.19 Indeed, the Covenants constituted at the year of their adoption the most important legal norm ever on the question of self-determination. Before the Covenants, only certain GA resolutions had material provisions regarding self-determination. Since the decisions of the GA are of recommendatory nature, and therefore deprived of any binding value; the inclusion of the right to self-determination to two multilateral covenants meant that from then on this right would enjoy a higher ranking in the hierarchy of legal norms.

      In addition Castellino states that, in terms of the Covenants,

      “… the right of self-determination is not restricted to a political or civil right but propounded as the gateway to economic, social and cultural rights”.20

      Another significant feature of the Covenants is that; “… [they] do not restrict the right of self-determination to colonised or oppressed peoples but include all peoples”.

      However, the term all peoples used in the Covenants is still “open to interpretation” despite the fact that many decades passed after the adoption of the Covenants. State practice is not sufficient to indicate what forms a people, and according to Jennings21; “… this is one of the biggest controversies surrounding the principle of self-determination”.22

      Other characteristics of the Common Article 1 worthy of highlighting are that; this article envisages the free determination of “political status” and “economic, social and cultural development” of all peoples that should also be able to “freely dispose of their natural wealth…”.23

      According to H. Wilson, although the Covenants haven’t got widespread ratification, they still prove that self-determination is a legal right besides being a political principle:

      Widespread ratification of the Covenants has not occurred, although this is probably not because of Article 1. Without such ratification the Covenants remain a not insignificant piece of evidence suggesting that self-determination is considered to be a legal right as well as a political principle.24

      Furthermore, it is a fact that these Covenants obtained many more ratification since 1988, the year of the publication of Wilson’s book which contains the argument quoted above.

      This being said, there have also been some countries supporting a “restricted interpretation” of self-determination; such as India, which posed the following reservation to the Article 1 at the time of its ratification:

      … India declares that the words “the right of self-determination” appearing in those articles apply only to the peoples under foreign domination and that these words do not apply to sovereign independent States…25

      During the discussions in the committees dealing with the preparation process of Covenants, some delegates opposed to the inclusion of Article 1 by arguing that the UN Charter referred to the principle of self-determination, but not to a right. On the other hand, the advocates of the right of self-determination “insisted that this right was essential for the enjoyment of human rights and should… appear in the forefront of the Covenants”.26

      Finally, the Covenants were adopted as they have the provision that proponents of the right of self-determination wanted to be in the text. This was the major sign of development of the concept of self-determination which has evolved from a political principle to a legal norm associated with human rights.

      B. The 1970 Declaration

      The Resolution 2625 adopted in 1970 by the GA and bearing the name of “the Declaration on Principles of International Law Concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States in Accordance with the Charter of the UN” (henceforth called “1970 Declaration”) “was meant to be a clarification of the purposes and principles of the United Nations”.27

      This resolution, which stipulated that “by virtue of the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples enshrined in the Charter of the United Nations, all people have the right freely to determine… their political status”, also imposed to all states the obligation to respect the right of self-determination in accordance with the UN Charter. As Shaw states; the 1970 Declaration “can be regarded as constituting an authoritative interpretation of the seven Charter provisions it expounds”.28

      Due to the fact that the 1970 Declaration passed with no vote against, and therefore it was adopted with a wide consensus, it is argued that this Resolution “can be considered as encompassing norms of jus cogens”. Although GA resolutions are ranked low in the hierarchy of sources of international law laid down by the Article 38 of the Statute of International Court of Justice (ICJ), in the event of the unanimous adoption of a resolution, it has been argued that it reflects international custom or state practice which enjoy higher ranking amongst the sources.

      In this respect, Castellino points out that “Brownlie himself, and others, notably Thornberry, argue that the entire 1970 Declaration can be said to contain norms of jus cogens since they were passed consensually by member states and are therefore evidence that custom exists in international practice to this effect”.29

      sam.gov.tr/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/BurakCopAndDoganEymirlioglu.pdf

    208. Ken500 says:

      Dugdale got let off £25,000 of damages.

      McGarry gets 18months in prison.

    209. Ken500 says:

      Polls wrong again Peterborough

    210. starlaw says:

      Watched President Macrons speech yesterday held in front of the Statue of Bill Millin, the Scottish piper at D-Day. At the end a number of new French Commando’s received their green berets piped on to the parade ground by a French Bagpiper. The entire ceremony was very moving and well worth the watch with Scotland very definitely the Elephant in the room.

    211. Clootie says:

      If Labour had an ounce of sense they would go for the Remain vote and let the Tories and Brexit Party fight over the leave vote…however that ounce of sense isn’t there

      The lesson: their vote dropped significantly but they still won due to the split between the two right wing anti EU parties.

    212. Petra says:

      What is it with the BBC and Farage? He was interviewed this morning for around 10/15 minutes. Nicola Sturgeon on the otherhand is lucky to get a mention, an interview at all and when she does it’s cut short (seconds) or edited. Someone at the BBC sure likes Farage and is determined to promote him and Brexit.

    213. Robert Peffers says:

      @Robert J. Sutherland says:7 June, 2019 at 12:33 am:

      ” … Robert Peffers @ 19:17,
      This is not about you. The voting stats speak for themselves.
      In fact they shout, if you’re not too deaf to hear it.
      Or are just carnaptious and looking for an empty argument for the sake of it.”

      Sorry Robert but I’ve no idea what you find, “carnaptious”,(sic), as your reference to @ 19:17 does not come up with anything in my “Find on page”, tab.

      In any cast all forms of stats are open to interpretation by those who both compile them and those later reading and interpreting them.

      Often the conclusion drawn confuses causes with end conclusions.

      For example I read last week that scientists now conclude that the long held conclusion of what caused the great plague was wrong:-

      The “Great Plague” was an epidemic of the bubonic plague in England. The bubonic plague, known then as “The Black Death,” killed nearly all of it’s victims, and very quickly at that. In that time period, there was no efficient way to dispose of waste, so human waste was thrown into the Thames, and garbage littered the streets. This provided an ideal breeding ground for rats, which carried the disease across England.

      However, at the time, people believed that the plague was spread by cats and dogs. So, people would go out and kill the cats and dogs. Unfortunately for them, the cats and dogs are rat’s natural enemy. So the rat population grew and the plague was spread even faster.

    214. Ottomanboi says:

      A Faragist win in P/boro might have pushed things. As it is this English cockup continues and Scotland hangs on treading water waiting for the English cockup to get more cocked up.
      Something pro-active needs to happen in Scotland, not soon, but now.

    215. Abulhaq says:

      @Robert Peffers

      CARNAPTIOUS, CURNAPTIOUS, Carnapshus, adj. Irritable, quarrelsome, “crabbed or ill-tempered” (Bnff.2, Arg.1 (curnaptious), Kcb.10 1938; Uls. 1880 W. H. Patterson Gl. Ant. and Dwn.).
      [k?r?n?p??s, k?r-]
      Gsw. 1931 H. S. Roberton Curdies 114:
      That belangt to ane they ca’d Rab Frew, a carnaptious auld deevil he was.
      Uls.(D) 1879 W. G. Lyttle Readings by Robin 48:
      He’s a cross carnapshus wee brat, so he is!
      Dwn. 1901 Ulsterisms in North. Whig:
      He is such a curnaptious buddy that he is never at peace but when he is takin’ the law of somebody.

      A most excellent Scotticism.

    216. Scott says:

      Sandy says:
      6 June, 2019 at 11:12 pm
      OT.
      Question time with Piers Morgan & others.
      What a biased, dogmatic lump of s**t.

      I could not agree more and what a waste of space the chair Bruce is she always seems to have a real go at the Lab person ( Not Lab fan) not the Tory and as for that Trump poodle Morgan shouting at Mr Hendry and Bruce letting it go on says it all.

    217. Sinky says:

      Call to scrap Scotland Office.

      https://www.thenational.scot/news/17690056.scrap-mundells-role-and-the-scotland-office-says-mps-report/

      The last Labour Scotland Office had a staff of five. But under Mundell there were 71 employees, with the department’s salary bill approaching £9 million and spends over £800,000 promoting Union Jack and Britain is Great plus anti Scottish Tory propaganda.

      “How do you justify that increase when responsibility – your responsibilities specifically – have decreased?” Brock asked the Scottish Tory minister at the a meeting of the Scotland Affair’s Committee.

      I read somewhere that the Scottish Government Budget pays for all this but can a Winger confirm this with a link?

    218. Willie says:

      If they want to flood Scotland with Union Jacks then we should make the individuals or companies who pursue this strategy pay for it.

      Retailers like ASDA and Morrison should be ditched in favour of Aldi who make a virtue out of sourcing locally produced Scottish products. Just look at their vegetables, beef, pork, chicken, and other products. And all with a clear Saltire / made in Scotland label.

      Or what of other businesses flaunting the Union Jack. Well they too can be boycotted in terms of their whatever they provide in favour of others who do not take such an approach.

      There are at least half of Scots currently supporting independence and many others who whilst not currently voting that way would take offence at a business preferring English products as opposed to Scottish products – and most farmers as an example would not disagree with that.

      But business aside, the wider impact of Union Jack flaunting should be to encourage it to be seen, as it is, as a disparaging attack on people in Scotland. Like the imposition of a Boris Johnson against our will the filthy Union Jack should be seen as just that.

    219. HandandShrimp says:

      The only thing we can deduce from Peterborough is that the Tories are unlikely to call an election any time soon. Brexit Party taking a disproportionate amount of their vote.

    220. Willie says:

      Many years back when the BSE outbreak was at its height and John Gummer was feeding his daughter hamburgers, ASDA, then I think run by arch Tory Sir Archie Norman (?) rebranded all the beef with Union jacks including previously Saltire branded Scottish beef.

      When challenged about it they apparently threatened to sue intimating that as part of Walmart they had more legal resources than you can shake a stick at.

      What however apparently happened thereafter was that after it was pointed out that ASDA were not minimising their food miles policy, were potentially co mingling beef cutting codes, were not complying with their own declared policy of sourcing certain amounts of local produce, they then changed tack to say that the complaint received had been very productive.

      Exposed to the glare of adverse publicity, and consumer revolt, Gerald Ratner knows all about how damaging that can be . In his case it ruined his business.

      I mention ASDA because during the Indyref campaign they adopted a policy of not accommodating campaigning outside their stores, whilst in one area that I know of, allowing unionist politicians in.

      So let us be clear. Let us show what we think of businesses who take a political line. They will be the losers.

    221. Dr Jim says:

      Union Jack? Put it back!

    222. Ian Mackay says:

      Technically, the flag is only deemed a ‘Union Jack’ when at sea.

      Otherwise it’s just a Union flag.

      (And it’s the English Union flag design, the Scottish Union flag wasn’t used after 1707. I can’t see why Scottish Unionists don’t insist on using the Scottish Union flag in Scotland but that’s their concern; I’m guessing they think England comes first?)

      So if Conservative MPs – are insisting on ‘Union Jacks’ use in Scotland then they would first have to sink Scotland to be correct.

      They’ve already made a decent job of ‘sinking Scotland’. Time to man the lifeboats for independence.

    223. Dr Jim says:

      Yeah but Union flag? It’s a drag! is less catchy

    224. Dr Jim says:

      SNP fail to register a single vote in Peterborough by election

    225. stu mac says:

      @Petra says:
      7 June, 2019 at 8:37 am

      What is it with the BBC and Farage? He was interviewed this morning for around 10/15 minutes. Nicola Sturgeon on the otherhand is lucky to get a mention, an interview at all and when she does it’s cut short (seconds) or edited. Someone at the BBC sure likes Farage and is determined to promote him.

      The BBC has always been pro-establishment but always used to allow the full range of views held by establishment people. In recent years due to pressure from more and more right wing governments (and especially under Nick Robinson who has brought in some really very right wing news people) it now promotes a very extreme point of view, hence guys like Farage being pushed. (Remember the recent scandal about the woman in charge of who got invited to Question Time and her extreme right wing connections?)

    226. call me dave says:

      Scottish Union Flag 1693:

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_Jack#/media/File:Edinburgh_Castle_John_Slezer.jpg

      Anyhoo! Best wie the Saltire me thinks.

    227. Cubby says:

      Scotland Tonight and Reporting Scotland.

      Both programs had very lengthy reports and discussions on the McGarry jail sentence. Both talked about her baby being deprived of her mother. Plenty of footage with SNP logos and saltires etc etc.

      In all the time devoted to this case neither program mentioned her Glasgow Tory councillor husband and his role in the whole business. You would think she was a single mother. The British media in Scotland ignoring the Tory husbands role in the matter. He is still a councillor in Glasgow.

    228. Welsh Sion says:

      Is it just me, or is there (again) some sort of subliminal message being conveyed by the BBC when it features articles on the respective Scotland and England women’s football teams at this year’s World Cup?

      Scotland’s team is presented in a chatty, informal way with its members being assessed for,

      “Which member of Scotland’s World Cup squad is the sassiest? Who is the doziest? Who “likes to look all stunning on Instagram”? And who’s prone to some “sexy singing” on the team bus?”

      I can’t see references to how many previous caps won, successes achieved with their clubs. It’s all very fluffy and soft, with the squad being “an angel”, “a gentle giants”, “is quiet and lovely” and “likes funny kitten videos on youtube”. (Ok, I made the last one up, but you get the idea.)

      The England squad? “Has won all three domestic titles”, “two-time PFA Player of the Year”, “two-time WSL winner”, “has won every domestic honour at club level”, has the middle name ‘Tough'”.

      Now I get the presentation of the Scotland team was made by “veteran midfielder Jo Love to reveal all about the first Scotland squad to compete at a World Cup in 21 years” and maybe softness and fluffiness is ok. Though I suggest that in fact it rather objectifies the women involved and has no relevance to the important matter in hand of taking part in a physical sport.

      Further, if such simpering of the “gentle ladies of Scotland” is allowed, why not that for England? Or, reversing that – where are the achievements of the Scottish lassies?

      You will know of course that my own team was knocked out in the qualifying stages for this World Cup by the England team. It’s only fair therefore (and considering the foregoing) that I stand four square behind ABE at this tournament.

      Yours,

    229. Robert Peffers says:

      @Ottomanboi says: 7 June, 2019 at 9:00 am:

      … A Faragist win in P/boro might have pushed things. As it is this English cockup continues and Scotland hangs on treading water waiting for the English cockup to get more cocked up.”

      I’m very surprised that Nicola Sturgeon has confided in you the reason(s), for the SG/SNP not doing what you think they should be doing.

      ” … Something pro-active needs to happen in Scotland, not soon, but now.

      So just what is it exactly you recommend the SG/.SNP needs to be doing that they are not doing now?

    230. schrodingers cat says:

      HandandShrimp says:
      The only thing we can deduce from Peterborough is that the Tories are unlikely to call an election any time soon. Brexit Party taking a disproportionate amount of their vote.

      ————————

      there in lies the new tory pm dilemna, if he tries to pass a no deal motion through the hoc, it will be defeated, if he trieds to wait oct and the extention times out, the default is no deal. however, the speaker has made it clear, the hoc will have its say, and faced with a no deal, they will revoke a50

      it isnt certain that the bxp would damage a new no deal tory party in a ge, ukip didnt.

      i wouldnt dismiss the possibility of a ge, i think it is the only way out of this situation

    231. Terry says:

      James O’Brien just taken a very moving call from a lesbian about attacks on them. I think he’s off to look into it.

      Anyway great to see mhairi black and Ian blackford out campaigning for Indy. At last!

    232. Joe says:

      In reply to Robert Peffers 3:43

      Nothing I have said is a lie. Those 3 points I made about countries in the Eurozone are absolute fact.

      The fact that youd try to conflate these things with parliamentary veto etc is indicative that you wish to divert from it. For those who doubt me please use a thing we call ‘Google’ and find out for yourself. Its not difficult.

      In general:

      I am aware of the differences between the EU and the Eurozone. It is not me conflating the 2.

      If Scotland leaves the UK and joins the Eurozone it will NOT be an independent country in any real terms, regardless of veto rights. It will be outsourcing its terms of trade, large parts of its immigration and all of its monetary policy to the control of others.

      With only EU membership it will still maintain control over monetary policy (unless we are stupid enough to have a privately owned central bank such as the Federal Reserve).

      Once again im faced with some assumptions that I am an anti-migrant, tory Britnat. At least people have ceased to call me racist. Well done.

      Im a pro independence Scot with a diverse family. I have been through both the EU and UK immigration process so I know both very very well. I will never be a tory and I will never vote for Farage. However I have put myself through a professional education where success depends on the ability to deal with facts and hard numbers regardless of how one feels. Not the monolithic bullsh*t we call ‘gender studies’ or any of its related brainwashing subjects.

      This is where many are letting themselves down on this forum. Too much ideological possession and emotion and too little hard facts.

      Fact: the Euro has been negative for every country that adopted it except for 2 – Germany and the Netherlands. So any Scottish government who suggests it as a future prospect should be grilled deeply as to why. Unless we want Scotland to mindlessly join a currency that is sinking in debt and is a burden to most countries that use it.

      Fact: countries in the Eurozone lose autonomy in critical areas that define an independent country. Im not taking vetos or voices here. Im talking about functions that underpin the country – trade, immigration and monetary policy. EU members maintain monetary policy but are affected by both other issues.

      Fact: uncontrolled immigration hurts the lower classes of host nations and hurts everyone of the country of origin. This is because its often the most capable/younger people who leave and reduces the productivity and ability of their own country where such people are needed. Flooding a poor job market with illegal immigrants only makes sense in the kind of people who can read 3rd wave feminist literature and not soil themselves laughing. Migrants do not necessarily = refugees (I can tell im going to get a lot of tears and emotional bullsh*t on this one)

      Im basically a Scottish Nationalist who understand that Scotland holds ALL the cards once independent. Scotland would boost the value of any political or trading block it joined. However im not a mindless foam-mouthed groupie for any one idea.

      I think there are ‘EU nationalists’ here (for want of a better term) who are heavily biased towards the EU with Scottish interests taking 2nd place.

      If Scotland doesnt reject the ridiculous, utterly hypocritical, hyper-progressive narrative that is spun by the left and by many now in the Scottish government you will not see it reach anything like its potential and instead you will suffer under illiberal statism falsely pushed as ‘inclusivity’, ‘diversity’ and ‘equality for all’. The trans ‘rights’ issue is just the 1st symptom of the ‘Progressive’ disease.

      Anyway, thats that. Thanks

    233. Breeks says:


      Robert Peffers says:
      7 June, 2019 at 11:59 am

      …..So just what is it exactly you recommend the SG/.SNP needs to be doing that they are not doing now?

      I remember back before the vote in 2014, people were reaching out to parts of he Scottish electorate, walking into our roughest housing schemes seeking to encourage their enthusiasm for Independence, and overcome their reluctance to actually vote… and it was working.

      For one thing… that.

      For another, I believe the “leadership” of the Indy movement needs to distill the whole Constitutional question of Scotland’s place in the Union into its crystal clear fundamentals, purged of all opinion, bias and prejudices. Let us get down to the brass tacks of Scottish Independence. Get the whole Independence movement singing from the same hymn sheet, and knowing exactly where the goal posts are. What does a majority at Westminster give us? Evidently not Independence. What does a majority at Holyrood give us? Evidently not Independence. Why are these democratic majorities not register as sovereign, when Constitutionally, they ought to?

      What facets of the UK Union are unconstitutional? What Unionist assertions about the Union are bogus or unconstitutional?

      We NEED to have a concise and authoritative version of all this information out there amongst the people of Greater Scotland, talking about it, sharing it, spreading the word…

      It is “our” uncertainty about our own Constitution which the BritNat Establish readily exploits, and it is a feature that is routinely absent from the dialogue whenever pro Independence spokespeople are put in front of a camera.

      We should, in my opinion, be seeing Democratic Indy, Constitutional Pro-Scot Sovereignty Indy, unConstitutional Westminster subjugation Indy, UN inspired Human Rights Indy, and Scottish Indy in Europe, …. ALL being seen as different Campaign theatres in the Indy War.

      We should be fighting on all fronts, and winning in all campaign theatres, but frankly, it seems that the SNP only has a public appetite for the Democratic route to Indy. All other Campaign fronts are stilted, if not stagnant. If the SNP won’t lead, then somebody else is needed.

    234. call me dave says:

      Terry = Tryer

      Black & Blackford “out campaigning at last”… 🙁

      shurley schome mishtake!

    235. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      starlaw @ 19:44 (06:Jun),

      A couple of years back, the Tour de France cycle race went past St.Valery en Caux on the coast, and a helicopter shot showed a view of three flagstaffs on the clifftop, one flying the Tricolore, one the Union Flag, and the third…. the Saltire. The commentators had no idea of why, but it was a commmoration of events at both ends of the war in France, the surrender of the abandoned 51st Highland Division as part of the French Army in 1940, and the liberation of the area by the reconstituted Division in 1944.

      The French at least have never forgotten us.

    236. ronnie anderson says:

      Carrying a knife in public causing criminal damage to Baby Trump , & injuring yourself into the bargain lol .

      http://www.facebook.com/groups/215556435841901/permalink/423058198425056/

    237. ronnie anderson says:

      Robert J Sutherland And still no memorial for the 51st Highlanders despite land being made available by the Mayor of Loos . War Graves commission have ignored this issue for years .

    238. geeo says:

      Treeza wants to go out on a ‘high’ by getting Spreadsheet phil to spend on her projects.

      Clearly trying to not be remembered for ukexit shambles only…pathetic vanity signalling.

      Hammond resists May’s plan for £10bn parting gift

      https://f7td5.app.goo.gl/PmhFw

      …….

      It has revealed however, the fact that The Chancellor has been hoarding tens of Billions while the uk suffers ever harmful austerity.
      …….

      “Last month the chancellor fired a warning shot across the bows of Tory leadership candidates making big public spending promises, telling ministers to prepare for another tight public spending round.

      In a letter to permanent secretaries seen by the FT, Mr Hammond made it clear he was withholding the annual £27bn war chest he had amassed for increased spending or lower taxes until the Brexit deal had been approved by parliament”
      ……..

      So when ukexit actually happens, say by no deal, Phil Hammond suddenly splashes these muulti billions, allowing the new Hardcore ukexit PM to declare “see, told you no deal was just fine”.

      Of course, once that ‘war chest’ runs out, it will be a different story, but by then they will have jumped into and out of a post exit ‘feelgood’ GE by then, probably with a majority, and the voters are stuck with them for 5 years.

      Thank goodness we have an escape route from the madness.

    239. ronnie anderson says:

      Bbc in cahoots with the Post Office . I’ve just had a leaflet delivered by the postman designed similar to letter/parcel collection card , shower of duplicitous bastards .

    240. Bobp says:

      Breeks 12.37pm. Good post and i entirely agree, especially when any chance we get in front of a camera our snp needs to be more vociferous and call these lying barstewards out with facts ,especially in the middle of an interview before it can be edited.

    241. Bobp says:

      Should have added ‘ or cut short’

    242. Bobp says:

      Joe 12.24pm . ‘You will suffer under liberal statism’.i notice it was’nt WE will suffer under liberal statism. What part of england do you live in joe, Cheltenham?.

    243. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      ronnie anderson @ 13:42,

      ? There is a very fine WW2-era memorial to the HD at St.Valery, and a WW1 one at Beaumont Hamel, the scene of the Division’s stunning victory at the tail end of the Somme Offensive in 1916.

      I don’t understand your reference to Loos, Ronnie. The Division never fought there, though the new Kitchener divisions, including the 9th (Scottish) and 15th (Scottish), certainly did, and to great effect in their debut. Maybe it was one of those.

      The 9th though have a memorial at Point du Jour near Arras, and the 15th (my maternal grandad’s) have a fine memorial at Buzancy south of Soissons.

      The latter, interestingly, was erected in 1918 by the French Army under the direct order of the general commanding the French division who relieved the 15th, after he had observed how they had fought. (It was under French command at the time, as also was the HD further east). It is the only memorial created in the field by the French to any British unit, so is unique and rather special:

      “Ici fleurira toujours le glorieux chardon d’Ecosse parmi les roses de la France.”

    244. Petra says:

      @ Breeks says at 12:37 pm …”I remember back before the vote in 2014, people were reaching out to parts of he Scottish electorate, walking into our roughest housing schemes seeking to encourage their enthusiasm for Independence, and overcome their reluctance to actually vote… and it was working.””

      You seem to be out of the loop Breaks. Many Independence supporters, AND SNP politicians, are still reaching out to parts of the Scottish electorate, walking into our roughest housing schemes”, travelling across the Isles, and so on. They’ve never stopped doing so since 2014. Where are you? What are you doing other than constantly trying to turn people off of supporting the SNP on this site?

    245. CameronB Brodie says:

      Joe
      Your absolutely determined to sell your ‘exceptionalism’ bollocks, aren’t you. What is wrong with you right-wingers and your disregard for the rule-of-law? Are you so desperate to have a white christian Britain that you are prepared to weaken international jurisprudence? I think you are because I don’t believe you’re actually a democrat, more like a bit of a racist fascist.



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