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The news you won’t see

Posted on June 07, 2019 by

We all know how enthusiastically newspapers love to cover any celebrity story relating to Scottish independence, and this is actually quite a dramatic one.

Because Dan Snow’s not just some hasbeen pop star or rando off Big Brother.

Snow was behind the biggest celebrity anti-independence initiative of the entire indyref – the “Let’s Stay Together” campaign, which culminated in a modestly sizeable public rally in Trafalgar Square begging Scotland to stay in the UK.

He was also extensively involved in the lucrative fundraising efforts of extremist loyalist zoomergruppe Scotland In Union.

But now – and we checked just to make sure there was no misunderstanding – he’s essentially telling Scots to get the hell out while we still can.

(The revelation came after comedian and musician Mitch Benn had expressed similar sentiments a few days earlier.)

That’s not a small deal, especially as Snow’s family owns vast tracts of Scotland – his brother-in-law is the Duke Of Westminster, the world’s richest person under 30, the second-richest person in Britain (after Ineos chief Jim Ratcliffe), and lord of six times as much UK land as the Queen.

So let’s see how many of Scotland’s newspapers pick it up tomorrow, eh?

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    156 to “The news you won’t see”

    1. Bugger le Panda says:

      I am gobsmacked but wary

    2. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Much may depend on whether or not the bro-in-law gets to him before the journalists.


    3. Robert Peffers says:

      Yes, Rev Stu, but we are well used to dealing with snow in Scotland.

    4. Rob Outram says:

      That is quite something and yes, I doubt well see much about it in the papers.

      However he is being slightly contradictory in welcoming a “hard border” between Scotland and England to allow Scitland to retain free movement with Europe. But, if he’s really thought it through then it days a lot about the state of mind amongst English remainers, maybe he plans to move to an Independent Scotland?

    5. Robert Peffers says:


      Radio Jockland news reporting that Farage has demanded a seat at the Brexit Negotiating Table.

      In the first place, have not the EU told Westminster the negotiations are over and will not be reopened? In the second place it highlights the Westminster attitude towards Scotland as all SG requests to be part of the negotiations were refused and then were ignored.

    6. Morgatron says:

      I too am surprised, but wish he’d never interfered in 2014 , but I do like his old man and obviously his boy has went for a hurl on his swingomitter! In sure Dan will do a journey to Yes video to show his commitment to a Europe without borders including an Indy Scotland?

    7. Jim Lynch says:

      I think Brexit is making a lot of people view things in a different light.

    8. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Rob Outram @ 12:19,

      Since Brexit seems almost inevitable in England now, I think we could see a certain influx of EU-minded people from down south post-indy. Young forward-looking people, that is, not retired Tory types. And why ever not? A win-win, I would say.

    9. Curly says:

      somebody needs to update his Wikipedia page now. add a sentence about his changing his mind.

    10. Dr Jim says:

      Ooh does this mean we might be *allowed* Independence now because some prominant Englishman or Englishmen who didn’t like it before says it’s OK now

      For me that doesn’t make them any less arrogant than they were in 2014 and they’ll likely rewrite history to say it was their idea as well, *How we saved Scotland*, couldn’t have done it without them

      I’ll just tug my forelock and say thanks guv eh

    11. This is huge! It will be on the front of every newspaper tomorrow Stu. Guarantee it!

    12. Breeks says:

      Call me a cynic, but Dan Snow’s Journey to YES video might be his last gig in front of a video camera for a very long time…

      Can we keep Dan, and they keep Neil Oliver?

    13. Corrado Mella says:

      From the point of view of rich, hard nosed owners of Scottish land, Scottish Independence makes rock solid financial sense.

      The value of their land and its output will be much higher if it’s in a country with open borders to a large, affluent 500+ million people market rather than a 55 million (and declining) impoverished USA enclave.

      The UK has no future, and whoever has a modicum amount of sense has already seen to that.

      Expect other significant moves in the financial markets between now and September.

    14. MajorBloodnok says:

      I bet Reporting Scotland will be all over this.

    15. mountain shadow says:

      It truly is the last days of Rome.

    16. Dr Jim says:

      Farage, unelected in the UK parliament, Scottish parliament, Welsh parliament, Northern Irish parliament demands prominant role in any negotiations on Brexit and yet the First Ministers of the other three nations parliaments were excluded

      Even the very very important zombie parliament of Northern Ireland who’s leader Miss Arlenus Dinosaurus Fosterus of the progressive DUP was only consulted, and she tells them what she really really wants and gets a £billion quid for a new drum

      How much will Farage’s new bus cost

    17. Adrian Kent says:

      74 years of peace in Europe? I think the states of the former Yugoslavia might have a word or two to say about that.

      You really need to be independent of both Westminster and the irreformably neoliberal EU if you’re really going to thrive.

    18. mountain shadow says:

      drian Kent says:
      7 June, 2019 at 1:15 pm
      74 years of peace in Europe? I think the states of the former Yugoslavia might have a word or two to say about that.

      You really need to be independent of both Westminster and the irreformably neoliberal EU if you’re really going to thrive.

      As far as I’m aware there hasn’t been a Europe wide war since WW2 and what you speak of was more a civil war.

      The EU did not cause the wars in the Balkans.

    19. Camz says:

      Unpredictable Snow in Scotland.

      Where’s the news chief?


      I’ll believe it when I see him on the telly saying it on a BBC program, with no one to ‘debate’ with him on the subject, as was the case last time.

    20. Iain says:

      Eddie Izard? What do YOU think Eddie? It’s alright to change your mind.

    21. Shug says:

      I think it is time england left the union

      Dumping the scots and irish and leaving the eu

      Whats not to like

    22. Artyhetty says:

      Look forward to Dan’s ‘no to yes’ film coming out soon. Maybe we are due a wee apology?

      It would sell loads of daily rags in Scotland if some of the celebs who jumped so enthusiastically on the ‘no thanks, better together, we love you’ bandwagon, all put down in writing an apology for their unwanted interference in Scotland’s democratic political process in 2014. That would be nice.

      Far too much of Scotland’s land has been sold off cheap, it’s an utter disgrace. People housed in tenements, yet so much space in this beautiful country! That needs sorting soon as we are independent.

      OT, anyone know what’s happening re the spanking new building in Edinburgh for the 2000 English civil servants being transferred to Scotland? I wonder where they will all reside, for the duration of the twenty year lease.

    23. Donald anderson says:

      Wot about the Russian casualties and the civilian resistance casualties whose whole communities suffered at the hands of the Nazis? Or, of the greater war losses suffered by Scotland?

    24. johnj says:

      A very refreshing Volte Face by Dan Snow.

      Now if he would only stop making those jingoistic and British Nationalist documentaries which are designed to appeal to the lowest common denominator of the English Imperial mind-set then I could believe him.

    25. Artyhetty says:

      Re; Dr Jim@1.06pm

      ‘Miss Arlenus Dinosaurus Fosterus’. 🙂 :-)!!

    26. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      mountain shadow @ 13:20,

      With these witless extremists, there’s nothing that isn’t the fault of the EU bogeyman. You might wonder why no-one on the Continent, not even the populists these days, wants to quit. And certainly not the people of Ireland (other than the DUP antediluvians). And no wonder. They must all be seriously deluded, of course. “Aaabody’s oot o’ step but oor Jock.”

      You know, I’m looking forward to being in an independent Scotland still in the EU, having grown-up arguments about policy as an equal among equals, and watching the delusionists down south truly getting what they asked for.

    27. Adrian Kent says:

      @Mountain “As far as I’m aware there hasn’t been a Europe wide war since WW2 and what you speak of was more a civil war.”

      But there was a very long ‘Cold’ one that essentially stopped most of the Western states from having a go at each other. It is that rather than the EU that has kept the peace.

      The EU may have helped, but given that it didn’t start until 1957 with just 6 countries and for most of the time since didn’t actually include most European nations it’s clearly not the only thing stopping us all from invading each other.

    28. Calum McKay says:

      We will see, when one rolls over, another excuse is born, all variants on too poor, wee and stupid!

    29. Alabaman says:

      Ach , I don’t believe this so-called change of mind, he, like Neil Oliver, is too full of his perceived importance.

    30. HandandShrimp says:

      What Farage and all his little demons are fermenting is pretty terrifying to any right thinking English person and it is perhaps unsurprising that what the SNP/Greens/Indy movement are fighting for has become a lot easier to appreciate and understand.

      I’m pretty sure JK Rowling and others are not far away from Dan Snow’s position too. I think a few Labour people also get it and are furious with the Tories for snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

    31. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Artyhetty @ 13:30:

      Look forward to Dan’s ‘no to yes’ film coming out soon.

      Not sure that isn’t a little tongue-in-cheek, but it would be a real coup if he did, and sufficient apology in of itself. I reckon it could make quite a few doubters sit up and think.

      Chip-by-chip. That’s how the Empire crumbles. Then suddenly it’s down with a crash.

      (I imagine that there’s quite a few luvvies who now regret their intervention in 2014, which was mostly done I think with good intentions, not being very aware of the practical consequences, which in the event turned out to be our complete betrayal. In the meantime I have sometimes wondered if it would be worthwhile to get all the signatories still with us to sign a new petition demanding full implementation of the promises that were made in 2014, but I suppose the most likely outcome is simply that there will be no such intervention next time. Some of them might even express personal regret but wish us well. I think there are many ordinary people in England who also understand and feel exactly the same.)

    32. mike cassidy says:


      BBC fails in bid to make the Gammon Time plants harder to spot.

      I love the way she denies she’s plant material.

      I’ve been on BBC Northampton three times in my whole life… hardly a permanent seat.

      says the 19 year old!

    33. mike cassidy says:


      BBC fails in bid to make the Gammon Time plants harder to spot.

      I love the way she denies she’s plant material.

      I’ve been on BBC Northampton three times in my whole life… hardly a permanent seat.

      says the 19 year old!

    34. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Adrian Kent @ 13:48,

      Isn’t it scary how much you would-be radical socialists have in common with Farage the Spiv and the international money-launderers and disaster capitalists backing the likes of him?

      Another batch of little Pierre Lavals in the brewing.

    35. Capella says:

      Credit where credit’s due. That’s what I say. This BREXIT fiasco has been a great learning experience for English people of good will and intelligence. Not for the gammons obviously.

    36. geeo says:

      If Dan Snow is happy to back Scottish Independence, for whatever reasons he feels suit him, and is prepared to make such a view as public as his previous views against it, then I can sure live with that and welcome it.

      An assertion on a couple of social media posts without using a wider MSM platform however, is next to meaningless.

      Question is, will he ever get the chance to air his new outlook on a MSM platform ?

      As ever, therein lies the problem.

    37. geeo says:

      Adrian Kent, a new witless wonder polluting Wings.

      Nothing here for you Adrian, only other resident unionist plants on here share your world view.

      Maybe best you try the Brexit Party social media pages, or the Daily Mail btl ?

    38. aldo_macb says:

      Dan Snow’s wikipedia entry describes his anti Scottish independence stance in 2014. Is there anyone out there that can add his u-turn to the Wiki page.

    39. manandboy says:

      Brexit obviously has the power to clear minds – even in hard-core Establishment figures like Dan Snow. Thumbs up to Dan.

    40. Jack Murphy says:

      This is indeed a major volte-face from a prominent pleasant Bettertogether figure in 2014.

      Dan—– I don’t think you’ll be invited back onto the green couch of the One Show for a wee while. Smiley emoji


    41. mogabee says:

      So this following sentence is absolutely accurate;

      *Scottish Independence is NOT scaring the well off any more*

      Thanks for that… 😀 😀 😀

    42. Jack Murphy says:

      Re Dan Snow. The National on-line half an hour ago:

    43. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Many will remain unconvinced until he scrawls this change of heart on a piece of card or, better yet, has a minion do it for him.

    44. ronnie anderson says:

      Ah dont see Eddy Issard running round tae Stella McCartneys studio for ah new Saltire frock & there’ll be no singing of the Stars Coming out Tonight .

    45. Liz g says:

      So one of Scotland’s largest land owners family, is making noise that would please the future Scottish Government.
      The Government that will soon be making ALL the decisions on his family estate…. Can’t think why!!!
      Nevertheless tis a sign they know Indy is coming,and we should always be graceful to those who have changed their mind no matter what the reason.

      Does he actually have a Vote,I mean, how nice do we need to be. 🙂

    46. Breeks says:

      I think it would be interesting to talk with the likes of Dan Snow and float the idea of an Indy Scotland in Europe, but citing UK traditions and practices as due cause to function legitimately as a transitional buffer zone for trade between the EU and a Brexited England, and see whether it would be possible to encourage a constructive lobby backing Scotland’s Independence, but rooted in the English mainstream.

      For example, Scotland could embrace free movement of people from all over Europe, but not through the Border with England. Scotland would be under EU jurisdiction for laws and standards, but with licence to embrace a bit of flexibility. I’m not saying they be free to sell chlorinated chicken in Scottish supermarkets, but maybe they could sell English chicken if Scotland was satisfied it’s production methods were compatible with our standards. England technically wouldn’t have a customs union with Europe, but would have a customs Union with Scotland, (which coincidentally required compliance with EU standards). In short, English trade which doesn’t deregulate after Brexit, can still get access to Europe after Brexit. Europe sees England given incentive not to deregulate, but also keeps a bridge intact for European exports like German cars etc.

      I know it would be complicated, and why would or should Scotland offer itself up for this? But However unrealistic it sounds, I think if the English exiting Europe were persuaded they could do their Brexit thingy but also maintain a lifeline with Europe, but have a degree of control over it, they might be persuaded to recognise Scotland’s independence as a practical necessity to best serve their own interests.

      Breaking up the Union by mutual consent rather than acrimonious divorce would very much be in Scotland’s best interests too.

      Just for example, take this issue of a Section 30 Agreement… From the English perspective, what actual incentive is there for them to agree? It’s a pretty anaemic deal we’re offering them don’t you think? Suppose instead we held talks with the EU and presented specific proposals for Scotland to be transitional buffer zone, something like an air-lock between England and the EU, not unlike what the EU proposed for NI. (And incidentally, that’s your Irish Backstop given a workaround solution.)

      Encourage England to help Scotland’s Independence happen and flourish, and we reciprocate by giving England a soft landing for it’s Brexit adventure, through our status as a full EU Member, but with allowances and concessions Scotland can absorb without passing them on to mainland Europe.

      If Nicola likes a compromise… let’s go fishing for that one. You help us with our Indy, Dan Snow and moderate rational England, and Scotland will reciprocate by keeping the lights on in Europe for English interests and trade. Supersede a Union in its death throws with a different kind of Union which actually delivers tangible benefits and objectively solves intractable standoffs.

    47. Iain More says:

      We just seen moderate rational Ingerland in action on the streets of Porto. The Brits got humped-oh dear me!

    48. Bobp says:

      Well done dan for coming over to the bright side/ right side (smiling emoji)

    49. Liz g says:

      Breeks @ 3.23
      I can’t see Westminster agreeing.
      Mainly because with Scottish resources they can manage their own Brexit.So they will probably want to concentrate on destroying independence and,as they said, “having their cake and eating it”.
      Not forgetting that an independent Scotland would likely finish up as London’s main competitor. From their point of view it would be madness to enable competition for London, if they can prevent it!

    50. So let’s see how many of Scotland’s newspapers pick it up tomorrow, eh?

      How about a sweepstake to guess how many actually do, and for added interest name them.??

    51. Camy says:

      Does Jim Ratcliffe still count now he’s move to Meccano?

    52. Foonurt says:

      Lik, snaw aff ah dyke.

    53. SilverDarling says:

      He agrees we should have another referendum, he hasn’t come out in favour of Independence – yet. If he even just keeps quiet for the next one, I’ll be happy with that.

    54. How's Mackintosh says:

      To be fair to Dan – regular meetings with the SIU zoomers, Nash, Cameron and co would be enough to convert any normal person to the independence cause.

      Looking forward to his future history of the Indy Campaign.

    55. wullie says:

      ah.these landowners estate holders . What I would like to see is all the small bills of sale which must be attached to the original title deeds of these land holdings showing that the land was properly and legally acquired. They just didn’t steal it did they. you know with the help of the Scottish legal system drawing up title deeds to other peoples property.

    56. Hoss Mackintosh says:

      How’s Hoss?

    57. Hoss Mackintosh says:

      To be fair to Dan – regular meetings with the SIU zoomers, Nash, Cameron and co would be enough to convert any normal person to the independence cause.

      Looking forward to his future history of the Indy Campaign.

    58. Capella says:

      Of course, we have plenty gammons of our own. The Economy Energy an Fair Work Committee at Holyrood has voted to limit the amount of time Scottish Ministers have to scrutinise economic data.

      The four SNP members argued that it is useful to see this data as early as possible.

      However, a majority of members on Holyrood’s economy committee agreed that the practice should end for market-sensitive figures such as Scottish GDP, the retail sales index, quarterly national accounts and the Government Expenditure and Revenues (Gers) figures.


    59. kapelmeister says:

      Dan Snow is a direct descendant of David Lloyd George. Perhaps Dan’s radical Celtic heritage is asserting itself.

      We must always welcome support from those formerly opposed to Scotland regaining independence.

    60. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      Interesting times indeed:

      Members of “The Establishment Elite” like Dan (checkout family tree, which includes a former Prime Minister, Military General and a Bishop).

      Must know that when a hard Brexit happens and the electorate South of the Border, whipped up by the Far Right wake up to the fact that the “sunlit uplands of Greater England and Empire 2.0” are a lie, their country is skint and sold out to the Americans by disaster capitalist spivs like Rees-Mogg they will need a scapegoat for their rage.

      FaRadge (no typo) and the Hurrah for the Blackshirts Daily Fail have already marked out “The Establishment Elite” remainers as “Enemies of the people” etc.

      So folk like Dan appear to be making the logical decision between a wee move North of the Border to a stable democracy with a properly funded police force or hung from a lamppost in an Neo Fascist pariah state which disregards international law and decisions of the UN.

    61. Republicofscotland says:

      Surely the Herald will be all over this story eh?

    62. geeo says:


      This is the WM that has completely ignored Scotland,her elected governmentand the people, who rejected ukexit by almost 2:1, and you think we should trust them with such an idea ?

      I had to read that nonsense twice as i thought there is no way someone could ever actually think that !!

      WM needs our vast resources, or the WM economy goes down the shitter in the short to medium term.

      WM has NEVER dealt with Scotland in good faith.

      On what planet should anyone think we can trust them now ?

      Bottom line is, WM need the reality of Scotland becoming independent and removing our resources from their wasteful hands.

      WM will need to trade with us on whatever terms they agree with the EU, and frankly, once English voters realise Scotland is prospering in the EU and their economy is tanking outside it, views on the EU down south may change.

    63. Stravaiger says:

      Wow. Just wow.

      What’s the catch?

    64. raineach says:

      Scottish Landowners Federation for Yes. It had to happen eventually…

    65. Clootie says:

      I keep thinking about a big wooden horse left outside Troy.

    66. Ronnie says:

      He’s at it..

    67. CameronB Brodie says:

      Wait a minute. Dan Snow is a Tory, who are generally closed to reason and fairness. So what has brought on this epiphany of rationality? Could it be that Dan Snow is simply a shallow opportunist looking to boalster his future reputation? He was certainly opposed to reason and international law during the first indyref.

    68. Golfnut says:

      EU farm/land subsidies might have some baring, though Westminster have sort of said they would continue from Westminster, Scottish landowners could expect to be at the bottom of a long list.

    69. call me dave says:

      Maybe they know something we already know!

      One of Britain’s major financial firms is closing four English offices and boosting its job numbers in Scotland by 800 over the next six years.

      M&G Prudential has told staff that it is expanding its presence in Stirling and Edinburgh, while retaining an office near its London headquarters.

      Offices in Reading and Chelmsford, and two bases in London, are due to close under the plans.

      The firm wants “existing colleagues to occupy the roles” moving to Scotland.

      By 2025, most of the company’s employees will be based north of the border. There are currently about 4,500 staff in the UK.


    70. Lollysmum says:

      Dan Snow -well, well, well never thought I’d see the day. Is this a wind up or no?

      Seems that our friend Neil Oliver’s photo is gracing the National most days -an advert for travel insurance no less but he’s not above being paid to be in the National. Who’d a thunk it 🙂

    71. CameronB Brodie says:

      Ah, of course. Dan Snow is not your average member of the public. He has significant financial interests to consider.

    72. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      I think we should be generous of spirit, and take such turnarounds at face value. After all, we can expect more and more reversals of opinion as support builds. In point of fact, we need this to happen if we are to win. And the more prominent previously for “no”, the better.

      Whatever their ulterior motives. We’ll all have to live together afterwards, whatever our opinions.

    73. Luigi says:

      After independence, there will be a long list of opportunist Uncle Jocks who, after years of opposing the idea, will suddenly start claiming that actually, they secretly supported independence all the time. Aye Right.

      Thanks but no thanks.

      (keep an eye on them).

    74. CameronB Brodie says:

      Don’t get me wrong, the Damascene nature of Dan Snow’s conversion points to a seismic undermining in Yoon confidence. Marvelous.

    75. CameronB Brodie says:

      Robert J. Sutherland
      I agree we need to be open to converts but Dan is no ordinary member of the public. He has considerable interests to protect and I don’t believe he honestly supports Scotland’s self-determination. Still, his conversion is very significant, IMHO.

    76. CameronB Brodie says:

      In fact, I’d suggest Dan’s conversion is definitely newsworthy, though probably not for viewers in Scotland.

    77. galamcennalath says:

      CameronB Brodie says:

      Could it be that Dan Snow is simply a shallow opportunist looking to boalster his future reputation?

      Or, could it be that he has now seen the writing on the wall and wants to be on with winning side. Which amounts to much the same idea. However, this is a trend (if it’s real) we should welcome.

      Perhaps yet another way would be to consider the great English divide between the educated urban folks who look out to the world, and the less educated culturally conservative. This now transcends, replaces even, left right leanings.

      Snow belongs to the first group. In 2014 many possibly thought (in their ignorance) that Scotland was trying to pull back into itself with Indy. Now, of course, the truth is more widely accepted that we are the internationalists. And to contrast that, England is the one building a metaphorical wall around itself. Hard Remainers in England will now understand Scotland’s position.

    78. geeo says:

      Luigi @5.08pm

      So what if they do ?

      Scotland will be independent at that point, so frankly, i could not care less who claims what after that fact.

      Maybe we should tell them now, fuck off with your Yes support, and settle down to enjoy the next couple of centuries of WM control over our resources ?

      Maybe that suits you, but not for me.

    79. ben madigan says:

      @ Breeks @ 3.23
      That sound like a sorty of “Special Status” that Sinn fein have been trying to get for Northern ireland

      @ Liz g and Geeo who say
      “I can’t see Westminster agreeing”

      Totally agree – neither will Unionists and Loyalists – see the spoke the DUP have put in everyone’s wheels

      In my opinion, Scotland needs “a clean break with the UK and a clear stay in the EU” – Terms with UK to be negotiated with EU backing

    80. CameronB Brodie says:

      OK, lets assume Dan has seen the light and now supports the rule-of-law and the principle of universal human rights. The lad might need some support in his new beliefs and possibly some resources to help him share his new enthusiasm for natural justice.

      The Foundation of International Human Rights Law

      Universal Values

      The core principles of human rights first set out in the UDHR, such as universality, interdependence and indivisibility, equality and non-discrimination, and that human rights simultaneously entail both rights and obligations from duty bearers and rights owners, have been reiterated in numerous international human rights conventions, declarations, and resolutions. Today, all United Nations member States have ratified at least one of the nine core international human rights treaties, and 80 percent have ratified four or more, giving concrete expression to the universality of the UDHR and international human rights.

      How Does International Law Protect Human Rights?

      International human rights law lays down obligations which States are bound to respect. By becoming parties to international treaties, States assume obligations and duties under international law to respect, to protect and to fulfil human rights. The obligation to respect means that States must refrain from interfering with or curtailing the enjoyment of human rights. The obligation to protect requires States to protect individuals and groups against human rights abuses. The obligation to fulfil means that States must take positive action to facilitate the enjoyment of basic human rights.

      Through ratification of international human rights treaties, Governments undertake to put into place domestic measures and legislation compatible with their treaty obligations and duties. The domestic legal system, therefore, provides the principal legal protection of human rights guaranteed under international law. Where domestic legal proceedings fail to address human rights abuses, mechanisms and procedures for individual and group complaints are available at the regional and international levels to help ensure that international human rights standards are indeed respected, implemented, and enforced at the local level.

    81. Ottomanboi says:

      Remember seeing something presented by Dan Snow. Remember Snow posturing and hogging the camera and uttering banalities. Don’t remember what it was about…if it was about anything at all.
      Like ‘Bear’ Grylls, an archetypal upper class English twit.

    82. Robert Peffers says:

      @Robert J. Sutherland says: 7 June, 2019 at 5:05 pm:

      ” … Whatever their ulterior motives. We’ll all have to live together afterwards, whatever our opinions.”

      Err! No it is not. You’re not too good at this thinking things through properly are you Robert?

      The whole concept of a Scottish Kingdom in the EU and an English Kingdom not in the EU is that the EU/English northern border is that there is no freedom of movement between the two for the, “Four EU Freedoms”, of people, goods, capital and services.

      This is a bit like how you reach the wrong conclusion about why older people seem to make up a larger proportion of NO voters. You draw the conclusion that because they are older they vote unionist. The more correct conclusion being that it is because they are unionists that they vote NO.

      It doesn’t really take a great deal of thought to conclude that as any old order is being overtaken by a new order that as the overtaking progresses the new order will become increasingly proportionately younger persons while the old order become increasingly proportionately composed of older people.

      In short they are older because they are unionists – not unionists because they are older but I don’t suppose you will get the point anyway.

    83. I don;t believe it – the newly elected MP for Peterborough has now been accused of Anti-semitism and there have been calls for her to stand down!!!!

      If there is any truth – wasn’t it obvious during the campaign or the pre-selection interview. Why wait till she has won the election and beating Farage.

      It’s as if this is being micro-managed by a third party to knock Labour back down any time they get ahead of the intended plan – or am I favouring a controversy theory?

    84. CameronB Brodie says:

      re. the changing of the guard that Robert P refers to. Sorry, I can’t find an open text to this.

      The Relationship Between Cultural Values and Political Ideology, and the Role of Political Knowledge


      Cultural theory maintains that four worldviews – egalitarianism, individualism, hierarchicalism, and fatalism – can be used to describe people and societies. We examine survey measures of two of those worldview – egalitarianism and individualism – to understand their relationship with belief systems. Contrary to what one might expect based on the cultural theory literature, we find that people with low levels of political knowledge seem not to have coherent worldviews regarding these issues.

      In contrast, people with high levels of political knowledge respond to egalitarianism and individualism questions as if they were opposite ends of a single, liberal-conservative continuum, rather than two of four distinct worldviews. We conclude that cultural theory researchers should take account of the influence of political knowledge whenever they investigate worldviews.

    85. Robert Peffers says:

      O/T: Here’s an interesting YouTube clip:-

    86. Boudicca says:

      Don’t get too excited. Further down the twitter thread Stu asks him if he would advise Scots to vote ‘yes’, and he replies ‘no way’.

    87. Michael Cameron says:

      The news you might see

      “historians phone stolen by separatists”

    88. Fergus Green says:

      I a a bit reluctant, But I feel the need to remind some posters on here:





    89. Fergus Green says:

      Sticky letter ‘m’ on my keyboard

    90. CameronB Brodie says:

      Some more resources to understand the ideology of British nationalism. Full text. Remember, it is not possible to be a “patriot” to a unitary state, such as the UK. Loyalty to such a political entity is a form of “nationalism”. Imposing such nationalism on a nation is a form of fascism (see the full-English Brexit).

      Ideology and political theory

    91. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Robert Peffers @ 18:06,

      What a patronising and snide little twat you are. It’s actually yourself that time and again doesn’t read and inwardly digest properly, then produces a large quantity of undigested farting.

      I was talking about what happens within Scotland post-indy, you punch-drunk dotard.

      Or are you proposing some kind of ethnic cleansing post-indy?


    92. CameronB Brodie says:

      And some more resources. Though not directed at Scottish independence, the insight is transferable and useful, IMHO.

      The Information Deficit Model is Dead. Now What?
      Evaluating New Strategies for Communicating Anthropogenic Climate Change in the Context of Contemporary American Politics, Economy, and Culture


      Social science researchers studying the public controversy over Anthropogenic Climate Change (ACC) in the United States have convincingly argued that the “Information Deficit Model” (IDM), which assumes that the public needs more and better information, represents an insufficient strategy for communicating the science and risks of, and solutions to, ACC. Instead, these researchers propose alternative strategies, under the umbrella of what has been called the “contextual model.”

      These strategies attempt to incorporate social context – in the form of culturally resonant messages, frames, and other rhetorical devices – into communication with the public. Several researchers have even developed rigorous experimental methodologies to test the efficacy of these strategies, dubbing this burgeoning field the “science of science communication.”

      This thesis reviews a variety of social science research showing that ACC communication researchers underestimate the challenge of implementing contextual model strategies outside of a lab setting, especially at the scales necessary for significant shifts in public opinion and meaningful changes in public policy. This is due primarily to the fragmented, polarized, and highly contested spaces of contemporary American culture, politics, and economics within which communication occurs, as well as the unequal distribution of
      power within these complex systems.

    93. Dr Jim says:

      It’s OK folks, Professor Jim Gallagher says *The UK must do more to look after its territories* when he was questioned on Reporting Scotland tonight

      In that sentence he awarded England with the title of *UK* then proceeded to downgrade Scotland to a territory

      First we were a Kingdom then a Country now a territory
      I wonder what Scotland will be called soon *The County of Scotshire*

      Maybe we’ll get a new Royal Earl

      Gonnae somebody vote Pete Wishart out with his constant attempts to *fix* devolution that wasn’t designed to work now or ever

      Oh Alistair Carmichael, remember him, the liar, says (paraphrasing) No point in changing devolution while the SNP are still in office

      In other words keep making life difficult in Scotland until us Unionists get in, I hate to tell Alistair Carmichael, that’s likely to be never

    94. ronnie anderson says:

      Fergus Green never never be reluctant to remind Yessers , as we see from time to time a wee positive story in Scottish Britnat media & its !OH their softening their line & being more positive , we know what shit on ah stick looks like we dont need to taste it to confirm its shit .

    95. schrodingers cat says:

      you know nothing dan snow……….

      i care not what he thinks

      but he will and does represent a portion of scotlands electorate, one which i never thought would move to yes

      the worm is turning

    96. Breeks says:

      I am inclined to agree Westminster as we know it would go down in flames before trying to work with Scotland rather than exploiting us, but there are three big concerns which have the potential for leverage.

      First, Brexit I believe will be a catastrophe on an unprecedented scale. The car industry is already in a state of near collapse, the Steel Industry is near collapse, and Brexit hasn’t even happened yet, nor indeed has it yet become inevitable. Sooner or later, Westminster will be compelled to shake itself free from its current denial and delusion. There simply isn’t the slack capacity to replace the trade the UK will lose leaving Europe, because if there was, there would be a global surplus and unbalanced equilibrium.

      Second, depending on us off course, Westminster might face the unpalatable possibility of “losing” Scotland regardless, in an acrimonious referendum which will leave Westminster with nothing except a defunct Union with Scotland to compliment its defunct Union with Europe. If that prospect become inevitable, Westminster has nothing to lose but perhaps significant advantage to gain through constructive engagement.
      I don’t believe the current crew of charlatans are even capable of constructive engagement, but if Brexit begins to look really bad, then “somebody” will have to step up to the plate. I’m a long, long, way from endorsing him, but of all those in this Tory pageant of incompetence, Rory Stewart seems to be least in denial about the predicament the UK is in.

      Third, I believe with some political skill of our own, (and we might discover whether Nicola is indeed the political Statesman many would have us believe), we could get Europe to back Scotland’s initiative, and offer Westminster a face saving “middle” way to set about preparations for life after Brexit not only with the Irish Backstop resolved, but the bare bones of a more permanent trading arrangement that uses Scotland’s unique circumstance post Brexit.
      Do not underestimate the potential of the Irish Backstop to see Westminster isolated as a rogue state undermining the Irish Peace, and sanctioned by the international community. Even the US will not do a trade deal with the UK if the Northern Irish Peace is destabilised. Once the UK’s financial prospects and schemes are threatened by pariah status, Westminster will need a way out. Scotland, for the price of backing our Independence which may be inevitable anyway, could offer them a credible way out with significant and worthwhile advantages.

      As for trusting Westminster? No I don’t think we properly would, but Scotland would find itself in a similar position to that which Ireland finds itself in now. We’d have the clout of Europe at our backs. We wouldn’t have to trust Westminster. We could simply close our border to their trade.

    97. RM says:

      Leopards never change their spots, something behind what Dans saying, slow but sure they’ll lure us into a false state of reality over 300 years of practice.

    98. Marcia says:

      Snow is ‘Establishment’ with a capital E – relative of Lloyd George etc.

      So May is going – I confess to having a soft spot for her, it is in quicksands of the Solway Firth.

    99. robertknight says:

      There’s as much chance of the MSM picking up this as my seeing tumbleweed blowing down the street and an armadillo hiding in the heather next time I look out my window.

    100. Chick McGregor says:

      Perhaps the prospect of serious land reform in an inevitably indy Scotland has had a refocussing effect.

      Better to suck up beforehand than beg as a defeated adversary.

    101. stuart mctavish says:

      Ronnie Anderson @6.21

      Summary (of) justice (contemporary) Scotland!

      Any idea how the Sheriff avoided arrest after handing out a 21 month sentence when he only had authority to give 12?

    102. H Scott says:

      BBc at Women’s World Cup:
      English anchor, former England woman player, former England male player and an American.
      Scots pay for the BBC, the Americans don’t.

    103. Maid_in_Scotland says:

      Dr Jim says @ 6.58 pm “It’s OK folks, Professor Jim Gallagher says *The UK must do more to look after its territories* when he was questioned on Reporting Scotland tonight

      In that sentence he awarded England with the title of *UK* then proceeded to downgrade Scotland to a territory.”

      Funnily enough I heard some English guy on RT’s Crosstalk a couple of weeks ago during a discussion about Brexit saying that England voted by a huge majority to leave, and England is the ‘core territory’ of the UK. Presumably he meant that what it wants it should get because it’s the big cheese.

      Maybe Gallagher and he are buddies and they think that once England has got what it wants it should look after us like a bunch of recalcitrant children being drawn back into the fold with tough love and a few wee rewards, aka ‘subsidies’. I’m sure Fluff Muddle will be finalising the arrangements as we speak.

    104. Ottomanboi says:

      Without Scotland there is no United Kingdom. They don’t want us ‘to go’ because they can’t think of a name to call the bit that’s left. All that and Brexit is just too much for those Poohs with very little brain.

    105. Robert Peffers says:


      Here is a very interesting one Wingers may want to see:-

      It is long but all of it worth watching.

    106. ronnie anderson says:

      stuart mctavish McGarry was originally facing 4 charges so she would appeared under Inditement as opposed to a Summery charge , so she should thank her lucky stars she didn’t get more time .

    107. Robert Peffers says:

      @Robert J. Sutherland says:7 June, 2019 at 6:47 pm:

      ” … What a patronising and snide little twat you are.”

      That’ll be in your most humble opinion, of course, Robert.

      That is after,YOU came attempting to pick a fight with me upthread. Yet now you get all upset when I take you up on your attempts to be the patronising one.

      ” … It’s actually yourself that time and again doesn’t read and inwardly digest properly, then produces a large quantity of undigested farting.”

      Oh! I’m sorry, Robert. I didn’t realise that everyone had to agree with everything you comment. I’ll attempt to remember that in future – NOT.

      ” … I was talking about what happens within Scotland post-indy, you punch-drunk dotard.”

      Yes Robert, and I’ll try and remember THAT in future too YES.

      ” … Or are you proposing some kind of ethnic cleansing post-indy?”

      Now I don’t know what you are burbling on about now, Robert, nowhere have I ever suggested such a thing. The very idea goes against everything I have believed, and practiced, my entire life. By the way there was absolutely nothing in my comments that even suggested such a thing.

      In fact, going by the language you have now used right here in what I’m replying to, I would suggest you have lost the place entirely. Your language is decidedly not acceptable and remember, it was you who came attempting to pick a fight with me.

      Perhaps you may have learned something here today – but I very much doubt it. What a childish person you are.

      Oh! I meant to ask – was I supposed to get all upset and angry and resort to the type of idiotic angry responses that you did?

      I’m so sorry to disappoint you but I have mentioned in passing on Wings that I don’t get upset or angry at anyone on the internet. I leave such behaviour and language to the immature commenters like yourself.

      Have a good day.

    108. Dr Jim says:

      So Nicola Sturgeon has a meeting with Michel Barnier and Jean Claude Juncker next Tuesday

      All over the news ….not eh? let’s see how long it takes them

      Still Farage’s head will blow up so that’ll be a bonus

    109. stuart mctavish says:

      Ronnie Anderson –
      Thanks, I’m ignorant as to detail but my old law book says a sheriff can only sentence up to two years imprisonment (so not that much more time) but the link I found suggests that has been changed to 12 months when he/she decides guilt, or 5 years when a jury decides it.
      I assume there was no jury since she was denied the right to overturn her lawyers plea after being given a second opinion.

    110. CameronB Brodie says:

      Some more resources for Tories like Dan. I think I’ve already posted this but there’s always room for a bit of legal sociology, I’d have thought.

      Justice, Legitimacy, and Self-Determination:
      Moral Foundations for International Law


      This book articulates a systematic vision of an international legal system grounded in the commitment to justice for all persons. It provides a probing exploration of the moral issues involved in disputes about secession, ethno-national conflict, ‘the right of self?determination of peoples’, human rights, and the legitimacy of the international legal system itself. The author advances vigorous criticisms of the central dogmas of international relations and international law, arguing that the international legal system should make justice, not simply peace, among states a primary goal, and rejecting the view that it is permissible for a state to conduct its foreign policies exclusively according to what is in the ‘national interest’.

      He also shows that the only alternatives are not rigid adherence to existing international law or lawless chaos in which the world’s one superpower pursues its own interests without constraints. This book not only criticizes the existing international legal order, but also offers morally defensible and practicable principles for reforming it. After a Synopsis and Introduction, which discusses the idea of a moral theory of international law, the book has four parts: I: Justice (3 chapters); II: Legitimacy (3 chapters); III: Self?Determination (2 chapters); and IV: Reform (2 chapters). The book is one of the titles in the Oxford Political Theory Series.

    111. CameronB Brodie says:

      And a smidgen more legal sociology and international law and stuff.

      Research Handbook on Climate Change, Migration and the Law – Introduction

    112. cirsium says:

      Dan Snow says that he can now see why we would want another indyref. Where does he say that he supports Scottish independence?

    113. Dr Jim says:

      The French National womens football team are better than any mens team in the Scottish premier league, these women are Gggrrreat! can’t see anybody living with this team

      That’s me a total fan of this stuff, family audience sport for humans where you can take the kids, absolutely brilliant sportingness with pop music blaring away from Katy Perry when they score

      Just so refreshingly Gggrrreat! not a sectarian numpty in sight

    114. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Robert Peffers @ 20:32:

      That is after,YOU came attempting to pick a fight with me upthread.

      What on earth are you talking about? Are you well in the head? You appeared out of nowhere @ 18:06 and started to pick a fight with me. Over something I wrote that you clearly hadn’t read properly or just decided to have a go at for abusive fun anyway. I hadn’t made any response to any posting you had made.

      But there you were, in your characteristic snide and patronising mode, trying to rudely diminish somebody you happened to have your latest trivial nit-picking issue with. You can’t just have an honest debate, you have to try to rubbish your respondent first, like some kind of ridiculous would-be bully.

      It’s pathetic willy-waggling, and I really wonder what kind of insecurity or aggravation drives you to do it, and do it so very often.

    115. Legerwood says:

      Boyd Tunnock is getting a knighthood and Dan Snow an MBE in the Queen’s birthday honours list.

    116. Footsoldier says:

      Wonder if Ruth has any comment on the Dan Snow conversion or is she simply going to remain in hiding?

    117. Ian Brotherhood says:

      A modest proposal:

      If folk who are upset with each other for reasons which are not the subject of the thread in question could possibly ‘go outside’ (i.e. conduct their argument in Off-Topic) that would be doubleplusgood – it would allow discussion of the topic-in-question on the main thread to proceed unhindered whilst adding some much-needed zest to the (of-late) neglected Off-Topic space.

      In keeping with the latest developments in correctness, I must now apologise profoundly for this comment and any upset it may have caused (or may cause) to anyone, anywhere.

    118. Footsoldier says:

      Further to mine at 11.12pm, Ruth may be busy honing her first policy which is why we have not seen her.

    119. Essexexile says:

      I see Scotland Vs Ireland in a war over fishing rights around Rockall has made the BBC front page though.
      Btw, I don’t see Dan Snow supporting indy, just indyref2.

    120. manandboy says:


      Irrespective of what Dan Snow, or anyone else, thinks, the fact of the matter is that Constitutional politics in the so called ‘United’ Kingdom, is more fragile than at any time since 1707. We have Brexit to thank for that, but much more besides, like a generation of Establishment politicians which has come to the end of its shelf life, none more so than the Conservative and Unionist Party, with the Labour and Unionist party not far behind.

      After three years of Brexit saturation, there is nothing new to be understood. Westminster propaganda is tired, repetitive, boring and almost exhausted. All that’s left is the timing of what is to come. As they say, it’s not if but when. The when of Brexit and the when of the divorce of the Kingdom of Scotland and the Kingdom of England and the breakup of the UK.

      But one thing is for sure – the sooner the better, for we can’t go on much longer like this.

    121. Capella says:

      @ Ian Brotherhood – I look forward to your statement on upsetness.
      Stu’s twitter has been quite amusing this evening. 🙂

    122. CameronB Brodie says:

      Ian Brotherhood
      Can I suggest that any paggering is kept to quarantine, OT is for peace and kulture. 😉

      In keeping with the latest developments in correctness, I must now apologise profoundly for this comment and any upset it may have caused (or may cause) to anyone, anywhere.

    123. Dan says:

      wullie says: at 3:52 pm

      ah.these landowners estate holders . What I would like to see is all the small bills of sale which must be attached to the original title deeds of these land holdings showing that the land was properly and legally acquired. They just didn’t steal it did they. you know with the help of the Scottish legal system drawing up title deeds to other peoples property.

      That reminded me of the story of the landowner and the poacher.
      A bloke is fishing and the landowner comes along and tells him to stop fishing as he owns the land.
      Poacher asks landowner how he got to own the land.
      Landowner says he inherited it from his father.
      Poacher asks how his father got to own the land.
      Landowner says his father inherited it from his grandfather.
      Poacher asks how his grandfather got to own the land.
      Landowner says his grandfather inherited it from his great grandfather.
      Poacher asks how his great grandfather got to own the land.
      Landowner says his great grandfather fought for it.
      Poacher says “Alright, c’mon then, square go”.

    124. Dan says:

      Footsoldier says: at 11:12 pm

      Wonder if Ruth has any comment on the Dan Snow conversion or is she simply going to remain in hiding?

      Indeed, utilising a Neneh Cherry song title I’d defo like to hear for the record what Ruth’s current* Buffalo Stance is on the matter.

      *current being defined as a nanosecond snapshot in time when flip-flopping Ruth is concerned…

    125. Petra says:

      Well done Stu for “communicating” with Dan Snow: a person of influence. A shift in consciousness? Let’s hope so and that thousands of others will now follow suit.


      WGD:- ‘Ruth’s plan for Scotland.’

    126. Petra says:

      See these (poor, wee) stupid Scots, with that SNP government, they just don’t know when to shut up and lie low in their shortbread tins.

      Professor John Robertson:- ‘Scottish Education faculty in Ayr is top in the UK with 100% score.

    127. Petra says:

      Eleven wannabe PM’s fighting like rats in a sack and trying to outdo each other by coming up with fabbydabby ideas. The latest from Rory the Tory.

    128. Patrick Roden says:

      Oh Dear!

      Leasky’s reporting that a £1 million pound black hole has been discovered in the financial records from when Labour was giving contract to ‘friends’ oops sorry I mean ‘arms length’ companies.

      Only ‘open and honest Leasky’ (o laughing at the back) has failed to mention the word ‘labour’

      I always had him down as a died in the wool blue Tory, seems it’s more the Red Tory variety.

    129. Petra says:

      Gove, another Tory dopehead, getting his tuppensworth in before he’s exposed. Take your pick for the next UK PM from a bunch of ignorant, lying, corrupt, narcissistic, womanising, druggy Tories. Renowned, sorry notorious, for covering up for paedophiles and perverts. What a truly abysmal state of affairs. Support and vote for the SNP / an independent Scotland to get us out of this stinking, soul destroying, dictatorial snake pit: the Establishment that’s sucking Scotland dry. If not for yourself please do it for your children / grandchildren.

    130. Cactus says:

      Reality check… the United Kingdom is officially Prime Ministerless!

      As soon as she resigned as Tory leader, THAT marked the moment

      The Kingdom of Scotland should assume full control NOW 🙂

      Theresa May, politician, is but a caretaker PM

      Hey Dorothy, this loonacus has been enjoying watching the new commenters x

      Hey Dan, good call, THIS one’s ah top tune

      Get funky!

    131. Cactus says:

      Point of information…

      The Last Call Wings Fundraiser began on 13 May 2019

      That means that there are only 5 days left until 13 June 2019

      Get yer pal an early Halloween gift all you latecomers

      We must be over 125K by NOW!

    132. Cactus says:

      THIS is NOW Saturday but looking back at last @cairnstoon Saturday, when ye look at mad Farage, politician, ye wonder how EASY it was for im tae do the damage, cause the foundations of them buildings, dog and wendy hooses were already crumbling frae well wae-in

      Today’s should be rather moving…

      THIS is Planet Earth (NOW PLAYing on IndyLive Radio)

    133. Cactus says:

      Did ye see last weeks like aye like?

      Here’s the previous 3 from excellent Cairnstoon

      Look and see and NOW remind yerself of our realitee

    134. CameronB Brodie says:

      Here’s some international legal theory to cement Dan’s new-found commitment to universal human rights and the rule-of-law.

      Human Rights, International Economic Law and ‘Constitutional Justice’


      According to J. Rawls, ‘in a constitutional regime with judicial review, public reason is the reason of its supreme court’; it is of constitutional importance for the ‘overlapping, constitutional consensus’ necessary for a stable and just society among free, equal, and rational citizens who tend to be deeply divided by conflicting moral, religious, and philosophical doctrines.1

      The European Court of Justice (ECJ), the European Court of Human Rights (ECtHR), and the European Free Trade Area (EFTA) Court successfully transformed the intergovernmental European Community (EC) treaties and the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR) into constitutional orders founded on respect for human rights. Their ‘judicial constitutionalization’ of intergovernmental treaty regimes was accepted by citizens, national courts, parliaments, and governments because the judicial ‘European public reason’ protected more effectively individual rights and European ‘public goods’ (like the EC’s common market).

      The ‘Solange method’ of cooperation among European courts ‘as long as’ constitutional rights are adequately protected reflects an ‘overlapping constitutional consensus’ on the need for ‘constitutional justice’ in European law. The power-oriented rationality of governments interested in limiting their judicial accountability is increasingly challenged also in worldwide dispute settlement practices. Judicial interpretation of intergovernmental rules as protecting also individual rights may be justifiable notably in citizen-driven areas of international economic law protecting mutually beneficial cooperation among citizens and individual rights (e.g. of access to courts).

      Multilevel economic, environmental, and human rights governance can become more reasonable and more effective if national and international courts cooperate in protecting the rule of international law for the benefit of citizens (as ‘democratic principals’ of governments) with due regard for human rights and their constitutional concretization in national and international legal systems.

    135. Dorothy Devine says:

      Cactus glad to see you there , I missed you! A cheery wave to you!

      Ian Brotherhood,seconded and carried unanimously, though I take Cameron’s point that off topic is for Kulture.

      I’m a little tired of waspish comment and handbags at dawn.

    136. Kate McLaren says:

      I know this refers to a post that’s way up the thread now, but when Yugoslavia imploded neither it, nor any of its constituent parts, was in the EU.

    137. Sunniva says:

      I don’t think you should believe Dan Snow. He’s having you on. Flattery.

    138. One_Scot says:

      Lol, as my old man would say,’he’s worth the watching’.

    139. Derick fae Yell says:


    140. Robert Peffers says:

      @Robert J. Sutherland says: 7 June, 2019 at 10:01 pm:

      ” … What on earth are you talking about? Are you well in the head?”

      I’m not the one throwing temper tantrums, posting insults and clearly having lost the place. I’m sure that Wingers can judge for themselves who has lost the plot and who has not.

      We can all see who now shows their true colours. I’m not the one throwing insults, temper tantrums and making unwarranted accusation of mental problems at opponents – you are.

      End of this unsavoury discourse – in which you show your true colours.

    141. Shug says:

      That’s his bbc contract cancelled

    142. robertknight says:


      “I’m a little tired of waspish comment and handbags at dawn”.


    143. Joe says:

      ‘Robert J. Sutherland says:
      7 June, 2019 at 5:05 pm
      I think we should be generous of spirit, and take such turnarounds at face value. After all, we can expect more and more reversals of opinion as support builds. In point of fact, we need this to happen if we are to win. And the more prominent previously for “no”, the better.

      Whatever their ulterior motives. We’ll all have to live together afterwards, whatever our opinions.’

      Not sure what there is to argue about with that statement. Probably the most reasonable comment ive read in a long time. The fact that someone could object to that is indicative of the hysterics some regular posters can get themselves in.

      Something of minor interest:

      REC UK Report on Jobs June 07:
      “Overall, though, the survey again shows what uncertainty does to hiring plans. Total permanent placements fell again this month while temporary billings grew only marginally. Recruiters are reporting that demand for staff is slowing and their clients are reducing business activity on average. Worryingly, these trends are most pronounced in key sectors like retail and construction.”

      That’s Brexit uncertainty in effect.

      Royal Bank Of Scotland Report On Jobs June 07 :
      “Latest survey data revealed a mixed picture for Scotland’s labour market.The positive takeaways remain on the hiring front, where Scotland defied the downturn in recruitment at the wider UK level and posted a solid rise in both temp billings and permanent appointments.”

      Scotland showing better results. Employment is a leading economic indicator as it doesn’t matter what politicians or economists say – companies only hire when they expect more activity and they stop hiring when they don’t. Its putting money where the mouth is.

    144. CameronB Brodie says:

      “I think we should be generous of spirit, and take such turnarounds at face value.”

      You might be able to convince others that you are reasonably minded but I’m pretty sure that’s simply a sham. Have you managed to get over your hostility towards non-white, non-British, cultures?

    145. Joe says:

      @CameronB Brodie

      You are an example of why in the last year I have become hostile towards the idea of totally ‘free’ (tax payer funded) education system.

      If you (and the utter sh*t you spam this site with) is where people’s tax money is going to then it is a crime.

    146. CameronB Brodie says:

      That’s a bit reactionary, is it not? It appears you are even hostile to universal education and free thinking. Sure your not a fascist raging neo-Conservative Toryboy?

      … and New York and The Hague and Tokyo and Geneva and Nuremberg and …: The Geographies of International Law


      In the dominant narrative of international law, historical events in space and time are made to fall along an invisible line of progress, from Westphalia in 1648 through the Bretton Woods and San Francisco conferences of 1944 and 1945 to the present day and continuing on through the future to a more just world.

      Against this, a counter-narrative has emerged which denies the possibility of such linear development and consigns international law to forever tracing an unending circular path between points of idealism and realpolitik. This article examines how international lawyers have created and continue to create these metaphysical geographies of international law.

      Drawing on the work of the French multi-disciplinary thinkers Gilles Deleuze and Félix Guattari, this article shows that both approaches, and indeed the very concept of international law, can at most only replicate and impose pre-conceived theories and that the imposition of such theories is contrary to the natural patterns of human consciousness. It urges us to see international law rather as but one manifestation of the ongoing struggle between efforts to impose unity on and to control human consciousness and the mind’s efforts to break free of such restricting structures.

    147. CameronB Brodie says:

      If I’m not grossly mistaken, you were selling cultural intolerance and welfare chauvinism, so I highlighted the positive economic effect of migration into Britain. So unless you have recanted your previous position, it would appear that either your political outlook is predicated on an incorrect appraisal of reality and cultural prejudice, or you’re simply a bit of a racist bigot? Which would you prefer?

      The Democratic Legitimacy of International Human Rights Conventions: Political Constitutionalism and the European Convention on Human Rights


      International Human Rights Courts (IHRCts), such as the European Court of Human Rights (ECtHR), have come under increasing criticism as being incompatible with domestic judicial and legislative mechanisms for upholding rights. These domestic instruments are said to possess greater democratic legitimacy than international instruments do or could do.

      Within the UK this critique has led some prominent judges and politicians to propose withdrawing from the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR). Legal cosmopolitans respond by denying the validity of this democratic critique. By contrast this article argues that such criticisms are defensible from a political constitutionalist perspective but that International Human Rights Conventions (IHRCs) can nevertheless be understood in ways that meet them.

      To do so, IHRC must be conceived as legislated for and controlled by an international association of democratic states, which authorizes IHRCts and holds them accountable, limiting them to ‘weak review’. The resulting model of IHRC is that of a ‘two level’ political constitution. The ECHR is shown to largely accord with this model, which is argued to be both more plausible and desirable than a legal cosmopolitan model that sidelines democracy and advocates ‘strong’ review.

    148. Joe says:

      @CameronB Brodie

      I shouldn’t justify you with an answer but for any others who might read this:

      Please consider CameronB Brodie. Given the contents of his posts he is obviously of the ‘Progressive’ disposition. He/She/It shows the same behaviour as countless others of the same mindset. I don’t like to label in such a way but ive seen many posts and interactions with the individual.

      Consider how there is little room for nuance in the thought process. There is little between being a ‘good thoughtful individual’ (who obviously accepts all Progressive doctrine unquestioningly) and being a complete bigot/fascist/racist (not accepting Progressive doctrine unquestioningly).

      Note also its not only nuance that is deliberately disposed of, it is the willingess to even try and better understand another’s position.

      In fact it is even more insidious than that. There is a deliberate attempt to paint anyone who is not thinking or speaking correctly (according to Progressive doctrine) as something unspeakable and therefore justifying attack. And the attack comes.

      – i say uncontrolled immigration is not good for lower classes. Progressives say i am racist and imply that I am against Human Rights. So obviously a monster.

      – i say that certain religions can be problematic. Then I am an outright bigot.

      – i say that that much of feminist theory is base horsesh*t masquerading as science. That makes me an oppressive misogynist

      – if i support womens rights to their own spaces. I am transphobic. As well as being a misogynist, clever that.

      This is the basis of totalitarianism. There is no argument. No reasoning. No original thought. This stuff is coming into law. That should scare you all.

      Dont think it will stop where it has got. History has shown us what happens when we let leftist ideologues control speech. Its a poisonous oppressor/victim narrative that is never satisfied until everything is under the boot of the kind of low IQ narcissists who push it.

      There you go Cameron. You at least make a good case study. Cheers

    149. CameronB Brodie says:

      Now we’re getting somewhere, have you never negotiated with a hostile opponent before? Never had someone deliberately try to put you off-balance? Never dealt with someone looking to provoke?

      My thoughts are immaterial in the grand scheme of things and so are yours. Of course my on-line persona is clumsy and exaggerated, as the internet is an unnatural environment for the human psychology to “perform” in. Subsequently, my intention is to encourage folk to read the material I’m posting, that is where the real intelligence can be found.

      P.S. This low IQ narcissists would like to know if you’re still not convinced migration into Britain has a positive economic effect?

      Liberation psychology: a constructive critical praxis


      Can a critical psychology be more than an inward looking critique of the discipline itself? Liberation psychology emerged in Latin America in the 1980s. It is a critical psychology with an action focus, taking sides with the oppressed populations of the continent. The originator of the approach, Ignacio Martín-Baró practiced psychology in the context of the El Salvador an civil war, himself becoming a victim of State repression.

      The consequences of social conflict have since then been an important theme for liberation psychology. Other areas of emphasis have been community social psychology with an emphasis on the role of social movements and social and political commentary and critique. I will present a review of the field covering some key concepts (conscientisation, de-ideologization, historical memory, reconstruction of psychology from the perspective of the other), its geographical spread (in Latin America and other regions), its organization (the emergence of liberation psychology networks and collectives) and some examples of work that is relevant to social trauma, the theme of this symposium.

      Uniterms: Dropout; Inclusion; Motivation.

    150. DerekM says:

      Hmm interesting have the Brits finally come up with a plan on how to win against the EU card in a referendum.

      If big cheese,honest i am just a tele history presenter,Dan is coming out for indyref2 then they are trying to change the narrative.

      Their no to indyref2 has failed and was nothing more than an attempt at stalling.

      With May in limbo and soon to be gone they can blame her and try and play the we will make it better it was all her fault card,which in turn lets them re play the devolution promise turning No from a negative into a positive.

      And yes its the same trick but it is the only one they have and they are going to play it.

      Hmm old faces from 2014 one trying to be PM secret squirrel cairn builders are us and worth the watching and now love bomber extraordinaire Dan the history man saying we should have indyref2 but is still against independence for Scotland.

      What a mess jeez anyway this might be them softening the approach they cant delay for ever because it is not just Scotland that is watching the world is,they tune in every week to see what the dumbass Brits are up to now ,even knocked poor old Donald off the top ratings and he tries so hard as well.

    151. PooPooMcGrue says:

      Dan Snow the taxpayer funded middle class adventurer/fresh faced historian/philanthropist and good guy bbc presenter/family man/London riot everyday hero /national treasure/entitled cringy c-unt. He received some sort of honour from the queen today didn’t you know?

    152. Gary says:

      The unreported news doesn’t even make the ‘Unreported World’ programme on TV.

      If you want something kept secret and unreported in the country, link it to a positive story for Indy!

      When will our papers and TV news EVER begin to report fairly and report on the opinions that are ACTUALLY held by the majority in this country?

      Sometime never, I predict…

    153. CameronB Brodie says:

      I also know a bit about International Public Law.

      The International Law of Recognition


      International society in the aftermath of World War II was faced with demands about culture and identity that placed renewed strain on the principles of legal equality and cultural difference. The less-favoured states – those which felt stigmatized – together with indigenous peoples, ethnic groups, minorities, and women all aspired to secure recognition of their equal dignity and of their specific identities and rights, with some even seeking reparation for the violation of their identities and the confiscation of their land or property.

      To cater for these new demands, the subjects of international society have developed a new branch of law, which is referred to here as the ‘international law of recognition’. The aim of this article is to highlight these developments, to identify the legal practices arising from this new law of recognition, and to submit them to critical scrutiny.

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