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Wings Over Scotland


The wall

Posted on June 28, 2014 by

Our secret agent in the No camp’s taken a real risk to bring you this one, readers. Smuggled out under cover of dusk, we’ve managed to get hold of the early rushes of the first ever combined referendum TV and cinema broadcast on behalf of the Unionist parties and the main campaigning organisations.

As you can see, they’re turning up the fear. Don’t have nightmares.

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    1. 28 06 14 23:04

      The wall | Scottish Independence News

    223 to “The wall”

    1. Morag Graham Kerr says:

      We’re not labouring this imagery just a wee bit much, are we?

    2. Rossco says:

      That cannot be genuine, surely

    3. heraldnomore says:

      Made in PQ perhaps?

    4. eezy says:

      For a moment I thought you were going to wind us up there!

    5. Morag Graham Kerr says:

      You know, over on Twitter, there are already several tweets from people who seem to be at least contemplating the possibility that this is a real BT broadcast.

      I despair.

    6. Stuart Black says:

      This is a joke, right? Isn’t it?

    7. Geoff Huijer says:

      I just don’t know when it’s a spoof or not now so ridiculous their campaign has become.

    8. Bob Sinclair says:

      I sincerely hope that’s a wind up 🙂

    9. Douglas Young says:

      Ha ha ha fell aff ma seat.

      Directed by Lord Robertson?

    10. Bittie Glakit says:

      Oh michty! Not only are we foreigners, now we’re cannibals.
      I’d better away and sharpen my teeth.

    11. Tom Platt says:

      Yes, Project Fear must gave been planned a long time before the Referendum even started.
      When I saw: “That’s what Salmond wants?
      I just creased myself with laughter.

      Anyone who didn’t laugh out loud when they saw that should really take the time to listen to this informal interview with the First Minister by Derek Bateman at the Kilmarnock Campus of Ayrshire College:-
      “Salmond Unplugged”
      http://batemanbroadcasting.com/episode-4-audience-alex-salmond/

      Tom

    12. wildgypsyrover says:

      there giving us the north part of england then? since Hadrian’s wall is well south of the border…

    13. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      Anything is possible from BTNT

      Anything.

    14. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      Quite possibly the OO boys would actually believe it.

    15. Neil says:

      if I was undecided I would 100% vote #YES after that

    16. Defo says:

      Aw Stu. I thought your big scoop was going to be something juicy, Saville was boffing the queen mum (pre-mortis) or such.
      Meh.

    17. Salt Ire says:

      Masterful voiceovery

    18. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      “We catch them, we cook them and we eat them.”

      Well, we have done it before, whatever happened to the Iberian Legion?

    19. Elliot Bulmer says:

      This is a joke right? Surely not even the Britnats could be that stupid.

      Surely they don’t really think we are that stupid?

    20. Schiehallion! Schiehallion! says:

      What, no haggis?

    21. Marcia says:

      You got us again!

    22. Taranaich says:

      See, if they got someone else to write the film’s story & script, I think Neil Marshall could’ve made Doomsday a really excellent film, as he did with Dog Soldiers, The Descent, and Game of Thrones. As it stands, there’s a good wee 30-minute short film in there if you trim the nonsense.

      That said, complete ripoff of 2000AD’s Caledonian Habitat. Come to think of it, I wonder if 2000AD will have some more sly allusions to the referendum in future issues? They had a “Saffron Dickson Block” in prog 1875, and Scotland had been independent “for some time” by 2050 in Harlem Heroes

    23. Sergio Casci says:

      But did we get to keep the pound??

    24. That’s hilarious.
      Spoof yes?

    25. Defo says:

      If it’s cannibals yer after, England fans biting lumps out of each other..

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28072902

    26. James Sneddon says:

      Call that scary. I’ve seen scarier sights on the Stranraer to Larne ferry. They need to up their scary levels to ‘Horses head in my bed’ level of scariness before I’ll vote NO

    27. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      “We catch them, we cook them and we eat them.”

      That Laura Croftie lassie looks as though she could be quite tasty.

      In a non sexist vegetarian sort of way.

    28. bookie from hell says:

      sunshine

    29. Lesley-Anne says:

      What about the aliens?

      Where’s the aliens?

      We were promised aliens, I want to meet my new alien friends. How can we have a new Project Fear movie like this and NOT have any aliens. Mr Hammond promised us aliens.! 😛

      rant over 😉

    30. Morag Graham Kerr says:

      Stu has been doing spoof BT posters and so on for months if not years. Scottish Skier (I think) linked to a still from this film quite early on in the “I’ll put up a border, says Mr Ed” thread. Stu used a trailer for the film as another post yesterday.

      http://wingsoverscotland.com/outbreak-2016/

      If anything, the joke’s getting fractionally flat. And still people fall for it. And in “fall for it” I include any consideration of the possibility that it might be real, even for a nanosecond. That’s how obvious it is. And Stu’s “Better Together leaked posters” are always spoofs.

      On Twitter, even after the film has been discussed by several people, still others come in tweeting about how dreadful it is and surely BT will have to withdraw it.

      There’s a sociological study in this somewhere.

    31. Derek M says:

      haa ha ha oh dear they are really going to hate you Stu over that one lol

    32. callum says:

      IInterestingly,in the movie, England is cut off from the rest of the world because of their actions to Scotland causing a massive social and economic decline in England, especially London. England becomes ultra-authoritarian run from London. The English are saved by Scots inhabitants that were immune to the virus.

    33. Morag Graham Kerr says:

      Now I will have to watch it.

      You know, credulous tweets are still coming in.

      Maybe we are too stupid….

    34. bookie from hell says:

      REV thinks every day is April fools

    35. Dr Ew says:

      Sorry, I’ve had a bottle of wine. Was that for real?!

    36. Mike Heinemeier says:

      We would still be better off. I think this is what Westminster’s ruling elite would secretly want to happen to Scotland out of sheer spite if we voted to be free of them. After all they’ve been trying to do this to us for the past three hundred years

    37. Morag Graham Kerr says:

      Was it shown here? I vaguely remember seeing posters. But my personal movie-chooser didn’t suggest this one.

    38. pa_broon74 says:

      Do you know…

      I’ve seen that film and it is shit, I managed to watch more of Turner & Hooch (guaranteed to induce self-harm in those watching) before switching it off. Its not just because its oddly offensive to anyone living north of Hadrian’s Wall, its that it is so relentlessly moronic and stupid.

      You’d like to be able to say ‘oh BT etc would never go that far…’

      But…

    39. Alfresco Dent says:

      Chill pills for Morag!

    40. Morag Graham Kerr says:

      Why did they leave the Long Island out of the quarantine zone? How would that have worked, was it a plot point?

    41. haud on the noo says:

      Sorry I’ve had a vottlle ofbgrooise . M unresal?

    42. Alfresco Dent says:

      @ Taranaich

      I don’t read comics – other than the odd link to the Scotsman, obviously. Links please.

    43. cynicalHighlander says:

      Saturday night at the local flea pit are back again.

    44. cynicalHighlander says:

      Saturday night at the local flea pit are back again.

    45. cynicalHighlander says:

      @Morag Graham Kerr says:

      Why did they leave the Long Island out of the quarantine zone? How would that have worked, was it a plot point?

      Oil base for West coast terminal forward planning.

    46. Jean says:

      The sad thing is that most of us think ‘ bt, no thanks’ are capable of producing such scary propaganda for real. That’s the depths they would plumb if they thought it would work.

    47. geeo says:

      That future still looks more positive than the BT case.

      Count me in, Yes all the way.

      Will they let Milliband out before this happens ?

    48. Morag Graham Kerr says:

      You making that up or have you seen the film?

    49. ronnie anderson says:

      Rev, ah seen that film Escape fae New York wie wan eyed

      Jack its like the Trailer you put up SHITE.

      Awe shine up BT wie Brasso

      fur ave nae Silvo left

      they’re lookin very tarnished

      ah the poor souls geed it they’re best

      they’ve aye hud the look o the vanquished

      lets bury them & put them tae rest.

    50. bookie from hell says:

      1,600 people attended British Armed Forces Day in Stirling. 20,000 attended Bannockburn Live, 1 mile away. Guess which the BBC covered?

    51. Morag Graham Kerr says:

      Where did you get these figures from? They reliable?

    52. EddieMunster says:

      O/T Was walking along a street in Dumbarton that the majority of flats are social houseing. Lots of YES A3 banners in windows in the street with only one UKOK sticker in the back of a Jag estate car. Credit to him for sticking it there, even if he doesnt see the irony that when hogging the middle lane, people will be repeating UKOK as he winds his merry way down the motorway.

    53. bookie from hell says:

      The Warriors

      come out and play

      you could use edin tram system

    54. Morag Graham Kerr says:

      Oh. Not reliable then.

    55. Alistair Davidson says:

      Another BBC production?!

    56. Iain Gray's Subway Lament says:

      OT:Rant – Jesus christ Glastonbury is so painfully fucking middle class now.

      As you were. 😉

    57. Lesley-Anne says:

      Don’t you just love it when a unionist plan comes together bookie? Oh wait a minute it didn’t did it! 😛

      Portsmouth was favourite to get this year’s Armed Forces Day but incredibly, or should I say amazingly, Stirling *ahem* won the right to hold it. Now as everyone knows, I am never one to be cynical in my approach to all things unionist. 😉 However the NON favourite gets the event, just a mile or so from the 700th anniversary of a battle that saved our right to continue to be an independent country. 2014 just happens to be the year of homecoming and the Ryder Cup is being held at Gleneagles. Now as I’ve said I am not known to be one of a cynical nature but Stirling *ahem* winning the AFD event STINKS! I may be wrong here but I suspect there may have been some *cough* last minute votes for Stirling arrive by courier pigeon to win the day from B.T. H.Q. and Downing Street! 😛

      I wonder how those unionist Muppets in charge at Stirling council feel now. This has cost them, I believe £500,000 plus they went £160,000 over the top of that to boot! I really feel for the locals who now have to foot the bill for this ridiculous NON event. Stirling “we’ll ban the Saltire” council must be feeling just so proud of themselves tonight. They certainly showed those dastardly cybernats and independentistas they way to go didn’t they? erm…no they didn’t Bubba, I think you’ll find it was they other way round! 😛

    58. bookie from hell says:

      Morag

      craig murray not reliable?

    59. Morag Graham Kerr says:

      Lets not go over all that again. If Craig Murray said it had come on rain, I’d go outside to check.

    60. CameronB Brodie says:

      Coming soon to a neighbourhood near you, “Scotchland” a.k.a. “The Rise and Fall of a Gated Community”.

    61. bookie from hell says:

      I didn’t know hes bias,if he is

    62. Oneironaut says:

      More like this is what the Tories/UKIP will do to us if they win this!

    63. BrianW says:

      That’s the scariest intro to Tellytubbys I’ve ever seen.. What happened to Baby Sun? Has he been left to burn out with the rest of life north of The Wall..

      Not so much Eh-Oh.. More “Oh F**k, Project Fear’s turned up to eleven, and Alister’s Eye Brows are Twitching Furiously”

      Lovely.

    64. Morag Graham Kerr says:

      The sad thing is that the original plans for Bannockburn Live were drastically scaled back when AFD was announced. It’s scarcely half the event it should have been. Also, Stirling council earlier withdrew finding from the Bannockburn event, saying it couldn’t afford it, then the the money at AFD instead. I remember there was even talk of cancelling Bannockburn Live altogether at one point.

      I mean, who awards an event like that to a town that already has a huge and long-planned event on the same day? (Don’t answer that.)

      So if AFD was indeed poorly attended (and estimates so far vary widely), they’ve spoiled that, and spoiled the original Bannockburn Live event too.

      And also be sorry for Portsmouth. They had a good bid and it would have been a good place to hold it, and nobody would have been upset and being so much closer to large centres of population they would inevitably have got a bigger turnout.

      But they didn’t care, so long as “misty-eyed romantic nationalism” was sidelined as much as possible.

    65. EddieMunster says:

      At least it wasnt Dale Winton fronting the show ,with “Celebs”, with strangely mis-shaped bodies, in bacofoil suits,trying out kamra sutra positions on a Saturday evening. Mind you Dale is looking more and more like a roast chicken with each passing week.

    66. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Morag –

      If you would like to address the substance of the link that ‘bookie from hell’ provided, please do so.

      Otherwise, please don’t take us back down the cul-de-sac we’ve ended in previously. You have ‘issues’ with Murray. Fair enough. But most folk here, right now, don’t know what they are, and it’s doubtful that a re-run will benefit anyone.

      Please drop it.

    67. Morag Graham Kerr says:

      I didn’t know hes bias,if he is

      I don’t really want to go over that again. I would still like some accurate figures for the respective turnouts and Craig Murray posts what he likes without checking (or even thinking, sometimes, as far as I can see.)

      20,000 seems likely for the Bannockburn event because that was the capacity of the venue and people were being turned away. However I’m confused whether the 20,000 figure is over the two days and some people have said 10,000 for today.

      The reported police estimate for AFD was said by someone to be 7,000, but we all know how unreliable these can be. Maybe there were more, like there were on Calton Hill. But some people who were there were talking about a couple of thousand.

      I would like verifiable figures, because if I post figures on JREF and moan about it, someone will crucify me if they’re wrong.

    68. Bobby King says:

      Winter is coming

    69. Morag Graham Kerr says:

      Ian, as I said, I just want accurate figures. I don’t know what the figures are and I would like to find out.

      I realise you lionise Craig Murray, and that’s your prerogative. If his figures turn out to be right then all credit to him, but from past experience I would like independent verification.

    70. bookie from hell says:

      twitter

      The Covenanter
      @The_Covenanter

      Loyalist, Unionist & Presbyterian

      No Pope,Priests or Holy water

      Good to see the crowds at the BRITISH armed forces day @ #Stirling outnumbered the bannockburn thingy by at least 5 to 1

    71. bookie from hell says:

      ian never said he lionises craig murray

      chill out morag,we all want true figures

    72. Morag Graham Kerr says:

      But did they? Where are the reliable figures?

    73. yardbox says:

      I was at Bannockburn today. I have no idea at attendance numbers at both events, all i will say is that traffic to and from Stirling did no reflect a massive turnout at the Armed Forces Day.

    74. Lesley-Anne says:

      It isn’t just the fact that Stirling council withdrew the funding for the Bannockburn event Morag, I understand this *ahem* extravaganza in Stirling cost the council £250,000 as I understand it. The only problem though is that they have over spent this figure by another £150,000.

      http://tinyurl.com/l8cuxqh

      Stirling council were expecting 50,000 visitors. To be honest I don’t think it makes much difference what figures are quoted I very much doubt they will be anywhere near this figure. I wonder if it was their £10 car parking charge that put folks off. 😉

      http://tinyurl.com/jvkhc2d

    75. Graeme Doig says:

      I’m gonna eat the covenanter first ! 🙂

    76. capper says:

      not so much jock tamson’s bairns as sawney beans bairns

    77. Patrician says:

      @Morag

      The teatime BBC news report I saw reported about 2000 people were at AFD, but the webpage (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-28062712) now says thousands turned out. The BBC web page (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-28056972) for BBL reports about 10000 tickets sold out for Saturday and large numbers expected for Saturday. the AFD should have gone to one of the English towns bidding but the propagandists obviously won that argument.

    78. Morag Graham Kerr says:

      Bookie, I adore Ian passionately, but he always jumps in to bite my nose off when I refuse to accept everything Murray says as gospel truth.

      I just want reliable estimates for the numbers. There are widely different figures floating around for AFD (up to 35,000 on one TV bulletin apparently, though that’s pretty unlikely, to 7,000 from the police to “a couple of thousand” from people who were there or thereabouts or maybe guessing from the TV coverage, to this extremely low figure from Murray alone). The figure for Bannockburn Live seems to be either 20,000 or 10,000, depending on whether the 20,000 capacity is for one day or both days.

      All these figures are being bandied around the net. Hopefully there will be clarification soon.

    79. cynicalHighlander says:

      Re numbers the police were turning people away from bannockburn event and these extras will of swelled the Westmin event and 7,000 was the boys in blue quote.

      We live in a corrupt society ruled by ‘the establishment’ let them play their little games if it keeps them happy, delusion wont win the day.

    80. Paula Rose says:

      wtf – Rev give us source – I’m not in friendly mode, is this your idea of a joke – cos if this is for real, game over and lets start discussing our children’s future.

    81. bookie from hell says:

      morag

      I hope sept 18th is counted better ( : > )

    82. Paula Rose says:

      btw dolls – the rev does love giving us adrenaline rushes xx

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Io-n-WIcj_M

    83. Morag Graham Kerr says:

      Lesley, I had heard that they were looking for 50,000 for AFD. It was possibly that figure that frightened the Bannockburn people into scaling back so drastically. I assume they thought, if there are going to be 50,000 at a free event in the town, who’s left?

      Maybe the report of 35,000 was building on that, but I think that has to be miles off. A couple of thousand is terrible if they wanted 50,000. Even 7,000 is terrible if they wanted 50,000. The police usually underestimate, but would that be the case this time?

      The council withdrew funding for the Bannockburn event, then somehow found all that money for AFD. Shocking.

    84. Lesley-Anne says:

      Patrician, I reckon the first BBC report of 2,000 is most likely to be the accurate one. They may very well have changed their later reports to say thousands to do what BBC always does, confuse and misinform the reader. Where 2,000 says exactly what it means thousands is just so obscure it could mean anything from 2,000 right up to the expected, by Stirling Council see earlier link, 50,000. This is just one way of how BBC can cover the tracks of unionists when their, the unionists, plans backfire.

      As far a Bannockburn goes I have no idea but I would have 20,000 was a pretty good figure for each day, but hey what do I know I’m just the local village idiot as everyone here well knows. 😛

    85. Morag Graham Kerr says:

      Re numbers the police were turning people away from bannockburn event and these extras will of swelled the Westmin event…

      Good point. I hadn’t thought of that.

    86. No no no...yes says:

      Fergus Ewing Tourism MSP said the other day that there were 15,000 tickets for each day

    87. Morag Graham Kerr says:

      So basically they completely wrecked their own AFD, at least so far as turnout was concerned. Imagine what a day Portsmouth could have had!

      They didn’t wreck Bannockburn Live, but I think their objective was achieved when they forced the organisers to scale back from a 3-day event with a 45,000 attendance (per day, or over the three, I don’t know) to a 2-day event with a target of 15,000 attending and a maximum capacity of 20,000 (again, per day or over 3 days?)

      They’ve also kept Bannockburn out of the media, but then I would suggest they didn’t need to monkey around with AFD to do that. The media are doing a nice line in ignoring Bannockburn anyway.

      I’m mainly sorry for Portsmouth. And we can maybe have a huge Bannockburn event after independence and nobody to stop us.

      Does anybody think this farce has prevented a single voter moving to Yes? Because I don’t.

    88. Bunter says:

      Was wanting to take my family of 4 to Bannockburn tomorrow, but seems it costs 60 quid online. Anyone know if there are any deals on coz it’s a bit steep for me.

    89. Paula Rose says:

      Gosh I was at a wee stroll through Edinburgh last September – about 8000 people if I remember correctly, anyway it was not newsworthy.

    90. Morag Graham Kerr says:

      Fergus Ewing Tourism MSP said the other day that there were 15,000 tickets for each day

      Interesting. The story was a target attendance of 15,000 and absolute capacity limit of 20,000. So did they go to the actual capacity limit?

      That certainly sounds as if it was a “per day” figure that was being given.

    91. Kev says:

      Now now little people, The MOD themselves have “put the attendance at between 35,000 and 50,000 people”

      There you have it, the offical figures, it was a roaring success, Dont dare question them, no more of this nonsense, move on…

      http://news.stv.tv/stirling-central/280862-armed-forces-day-celebrated-in-stirling-in-scotland/

    92. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Morag/bookie from hell –

      How many people were on the Glasgow march on Feb 15th 2005

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ywP9ikyPG8

      Was it 50,000, 100,000? More?

      Whatever the number, those who were there on the day KNOW it was the biggest gathering of Scots ever seen. (Bear in mind that thousands of Scots had also gone down to the London demo.)

      Will we ever know how many were there?

      No. We won’t. The footage exists – helicopters were overhead all day – it’s inconceivable that some of them weren’t filming the event.

      But do we ever get to see it? No chance.

      I don’t care how many people were at the Bannockburn gig, or the AFD event. It doesn’t matter. It’ll matter to the folk who were there, but to the rest of us? Nah.

      More important, right now, is how many folk turn up at Pacific Quay tomorrow. The BBC will ignore it – as they have to – but the folk who do turn up will know they were there, and tell their grannies and neighbours and pals about it.

      Next week? The Pacific Quay protest won’t mean anything to most folk.

      The week after? There’ll be another demo/protest/march…and so it goes on.

      All that matters is that we stay alive, healthy, alert, and keep doing these pointless things, every day between now and Sep 18th – then, we win, and a lot of folk won’t be bothered either way, won’t have voted, don’t care.

      But we do. And that’s why we keep doing it.

    93. Alibi says:

      MoD are claiming an attendance of between 35k and 50k. that seems remarkably different from the couple of thousand or even 7000 figures others are saying. I have to say that I would be surprised if such an event attracted only 2000, but I suspect the MoD have an ulterior motive to exaggerate the attendance. The UK government probably told them what to say.

    94. jacksloan2013 says:

      Interviewed on STV News, Cameron openly stated that the armed forces event had, “a bigger message I think, perhaps, this year because we can consider what Scotland brings to the UK armed forces and what being part of being a bigger entity brings for Scotland as well. My message is always is always that Scotland gets the best of both worlds, and that what we want to see.”
      Other leaders resort to military parades and events as a demonstration of state power. Fascists are, and have been, particularly fond of it so it is strange that the nationalists have been tarred with the Nazi label. That piece of UK propaganda cost £400,000.

    95. scottish_skier says:

      Does anybody think this farce has prevented a single voter moving to Yes? Because I don’t.

      You’d be correct. Likewise, bannockburn live won’t have created any Yes either.

      The whole issue of one clashing with another ‘intentionally’… DC’s smiley face to confirm that… MSM biased coverage…

      Aye, well those may well have had an effect, if simply to reinforce.

    96. Lesley-Anne says:

      I remember reading earlier, but for the life of me I can’t find it now, that as soon as Stirling had *cough* won the rights to AFD they cut the licenced numbers for Bannockburn due to police fears due to the numbers expected at Bannockburn and AFD. Hence Bannockburn was cut back to 20,000 and according to the Scotsman Stirling Council was expecting 50,000 visitors to their AFD event.

      Up to 50,000 people – more than twice the total capacity of Bannockburn Live – are expected to descend on Stirling for the UK’s main Armed Forces Day event.

      I remember reading about the funding of Bannockburn being withdrawn by the council, funny they *cough* miraculously found £250,000 for their AFD event though. I agree with you though the behaviour of Stirling council over their funding then non funding of Bannockburn but miraculously then finding funds for their AFD particularly despicable. There again I’m not sure I’m all that surprised at this sort of action from a Labour led council. 😉

      Stirling Council is paying around £250,000 to host the event, after being selected from five formal bidders.

      It emerged today that the Scottish Government had agreed to help meet the overall £400,000 cost of staging the event, which senior members of the Royal Family and the UK Government are expected to attend.

      With regards to the police estimates on attendees at AFD I’d tend to go with them, after all surely even they can count up to 1,800. 😛

    97. Conan_the_Librarian says:

      The population of Stirling is around 86,000…

    98. Les Wilson says:

      They are lying, when they were filming the AFD I particularly watched for crowded sections, people were milling around, but something like 5000 would be a reasonable estimate.
      Large empty sections of the fields with very few people.

      Just watch the spin and image manipulation that they will release, when they have finished inventing a big crowd into the film.

    99. bookie from hell says:

      bunter

      I’m sure daily record had a coupon £10 off,I’m not 100%

    100. At the top of some newspaper Twitter pages is a BT graph declaring the gap between yes and no is widening again. Mere spin or…?

    101. Caroline Corfield says:

      Will the figures for AFD include the 1000 who had to be there as part of the armed forces/veterans?

      If an original estimate of 2000 odd was put about for AFD and someone thought it included these people you’d be left with a pretty low supporting crowd.

      There’s not much in the way of aerial shots of the AFD crowd, but the one that is posted on the BBC pictures while showing a partial view doesn’t suggest 35,000. I suspect that that figure is the total attendance at both events.

      This obfuscation will be perpetuated as the two events have now appeared on the website I looked at as part of ‘Stirling’s Big Weekend’. I don’t think the separate figures will be easy to come by.

      It’s suspiciously convenient that if we add Bannockburn at 20,000 to AFD at 7,000 crowd plus 1000 participants, you get into the ballpark of 35,000.

    102. Thepnr says:

      I don’t give a monkey’s either about how many were here or there. Totally irrelevant. Now the PQ demonstration tomorrow, I’m interested to see the crowds turn out for that one.

      More relevance to NOW than either event in Stirling is the protest at Pacific Quay tomorrow at 2pm. Watch tomorrows news here then you don’t need second hand news.

      new.livestream.com/IndependenceLive/events/3071707

      No dispute then. See it with your own eyes, if you can make it along then please show your support. The BBC are scum, tell them.

    103. Training Day says:

      The one sure thing is that the mainstream media will report uncritically the MoD figure. Does it matter? No.

      What matters is what’s happening on the ground. A source I trust tells me today his entire building (consisting of around 16 people) is voting Yes.

    104. caz-m says:

      The American female reviewing the papers on Sky News is a Labour luvvin pain in the Arse.

    105. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Thepnr –

      Hear, hear.

      Day by day, the BTUKOKNOTHANKS ‘case’ becomes ever more misty and distant.

      They have no ‘case’.

      They have no ‘argument’.

      They have nothing.

    106. Sinky says:

      Craig Murray ells it how it was in Stirling to-day.

      http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2014/06/stirling-shenanigans/

      Contast this with the BBC / STV /MSM media reports and you wonder why so many people say they haven’t got enough information on the referendum.

      As Lord Foulkes famously said “but they are doing it deliberately”.

    107. bookie from hell says:

      Thepnr

      The BBC are scum, tell them.

      not helpful language bud,remember millions of people UK,value it the same as NHS.

      I understand your anger,annoyance, but BT love these outbursts,and duly report them

    108. caz-m says:

      Thepnr

      BBC Scotland lose both ways on 19th September. If it’s a NO vote, then they get mass non-payment of License Fee.

      If it’s a YES vote, they lose the Scottish License Fee altogether.

      Burd & Co are finished.

    109. Robert Louis says:

      bookie from hell,

      Craig Murray is a good guy, and his figures are no less reliable than anybody else. Morag has always had an issue about him – and has said so here many times before. I have no idea why, and really don’t want to know.

      It isn’t just Ian Brotherhood who thinks that.

      Whichever way we look at it, armed forces was NOT the big deal that Westminster had hoped. Besides, why leave your house when you can watch the red arrows etc.. from pretty much anywhere in Stirling, without having extremist union jackery British Nationalism rammed down your throat.

    110. Peter says:

      Blair Mcdougall (probably) showing his support for Scotland’s No1 Tennis batter. And this comment has been allowed to stand for 9 hours. Lovely people at the Nazigraph.

      jelliedeels • 9 hours ago

      No English people should support this sweaty unless he takes an oath to put England first .

      its an englishmans birthright to look on the sweaties with contempt

    111. Liquid Lenny says:

      Morag there was Armed Forces day in other place in Britain today, Scarborough for one, possibly more.

    112. bookie from hell says:

      Scotland on Sunday,Sunday Herald both going with

      Cameron plays politics with Armed Forces Day

    113. Paula Rose says:

      Do they have an armless forces day? I remember a wee lad whose arms were sacrificed for freedom, I’ll stop now – I’m getting very angry.

    114. Morag Graham Kerr says:

      Just find me some figures from a source with some reason to know. Craig Murray wasn’t there as far as I know.

      I wish Stuart didn’t have that blog on the Wings blogroll but he does and there’s nothing I can do about it. But please don’t come telling me that it’s “telling it like it is”.

    115. Morag Graham Kerr says:

      Morag there was Armed Forces day in other place in Britain today, Scarborough for one, possibly more.

      Do you think they were adding up the attendance at all of them, then?

    116. Nuada says:

      I assumed Stu was winding us up here, but with BTs record, I have to admit, I’m not entirely sure…

    117. GrahamB says:

      BannockburnLive was a great day out in spite of the poor weather that the militarists brought down on us. Judging from football match attendance estimation techniques there were at least 3000 at the 2pm re-enactment so for 3 separate sessions that suggests at least 9000 at the event. Friends we met about 3pm said it was sold out at 10,000. On the train / at Stirling station both going and on return BBL supporters outnumbered AFd ones by at least 5 to 1 so if that was reflected across all modes of transport the 2000 for AFD sounds reasonable.
      About 90% of the BBL crowd had YES badges, t-shirts, flags, etc. and most of the remainder were probable tourists from abroad (nearly called them foreigners). Only minor niggle apart from the rain and the queues was the MOD sending a Red Arrow right over the venue at low level and full noise just as Dougie MacLean was starting his excellent set.
      Hopefully there will be an equivalent turnout at PQ tomorrow / later today.

    118. Paula Rose says:

      Ooh look – the labour party at home…

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QewiLgTJYyQ

    119. Morag Graham Kerr says:

      I think I officially give up on whether BBL was 10,000 for the day making 20,000 for the weekend max, or 20,000 per day. One says one thing and one the other.

    120. heedtracker says:

      Its like that rather awful Children of Men, starring Michael Cain or really Children of Scotsmen where the very last knocked up Scots lassie, a BBC weather girl as they’re always pregnant, has to escape to somewhere very nice, England, to save the human race as everyone is now sterile because THAT’S WHAT ALICSAMIN WANTS. We’re bettertogether.

    121. Flower of Scotland says:

      Was at Bannockburn Live today. Worse weather ever and certainly not the best organised event ever , but on leaving guess who was there to greet us? Alex Salmond himself. Looking really well and agreeing with me that thinks are going well! Made my day!

    122. Paula Rose says:

      Sometimes darlings I think you deserve a treat, now if my pussy will stop licking me…

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHRH490XHG8

    123. scottish_skier says:

      I’m just waiting on the wide shots of the huge crowds at AFD; tens of thousands stretching as far as the eye can see.

      I’m sure they’ll be along soon.

      I’m guessing there’s just so many it’s hard to pick out the best shots.

    124. Lesley-Anne says:

      Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Thepnr –

      Hear, hear.

      Day by day, the BTUKOKNOTHANKS ‘case’ becomes ever more misty and distant.

      They have no ‘case’.

      They have no ‘argument’.

      They have nothing.

      WOW!

      I never knew they had so much stuff going for them. That’s it I’ve made my mind up, no more pushing this independence malarky it’s union or bust for me! Thank you B.T. for providing me with so much information I’m going into information overload. 😛

    125. handclapping says:

      @Lesley-Anne
      Have you got that right? Information Overload was the invasion of Europe in ’44 Information Underload is the BTNT strategy to lose the Scottish Referendum in ’14

    126. Lesley-Anne says:

      Oh is that what it is handclapping?

      I knew it was something. information overload…information underload, you say toe mate oh I say tom at oh! It’s all a load of you know what to me! 😛

    127. WeeGingerDug says:

      For folk wondering about crowd sizes and how to calculate estimates – this website might be useful

      http://ijnet.org/stories/how-reporters-can-estimate-number-people-crowd

    128. CameronB Brodie says:

      Lesley-Anne
      So a 12 page A5 booklet doesn’t cover it for you? (12 page + 4 page cover)

    129. scottish_skier says:

      AFD was about appealing to Britishness.

      When forced to choose, ~17% of the electorate pick British over 74% Scottish and the remainder ‘other’.

      Those numbers will not have changed today; just as an expensive athletics meet likewise had no impact.

      Things are a bit bigger than a day out for the family.

    130. heedtracker says:

      Is it just me or does that sniper look like Severin Carrell, with Gordon Sweaty Brewer reloading for him.

    131. Thepnr says:

      @Lesley-Anne

      See you! I hope to meet you sometime. There is the night out in Edinburgh next Friday but I believe you can’t make that one. That will be July, only August the September.

      I hope you will make one of the social nights as I’ve always liked your posts. Time is running out though, you know that.

      I’m addressing Wings readers now. Do you really want a Yes vote? I guess you do, what are you willing to do about it?
      Get the finger out, everyday from now until the 18th Sep you should be talking.

      Don’t wake up on 19th September wishing you had only done that wee bit more. Just one person OK, that’s your job.

    132. CameronB Brodie says:

      Is there an HM services for Yes Facebook thingy?

    133. Lesley-Anne says:

      CameronB Brodie says:

      Lesley-Anne
      So a 12 page A5 booklet doesn’t cover it for you? (12 page + 4 page cover)

      WHAT?

      The booklet describing the *ahem* master plan has 12 pages? WOW! I didn’t realise, I can’t count above 10. I only have 8 fingers and two thumbs you know. I am not able to use my toes to count cause they’re usually covered up with socks and/or boots. 😛

      Thepnr says:

      @Lesley-Anne

      See you! I hope to meet you sometime. There is the night out in Edinburgh next Friday but I believe you can’t make that one. That will be July, only August the September.

      I hope you will make one of the social nights as I’ve always liked your posts. Time is running out though, you know that.

      Reciprocal feelings here Thepnr. 😉

      The main problem we have is being down in the borderlands. It’s always a long way up, and back down for us. Well I say us, I’m using the *ahem* royal us here cause it’s my partner who does most/all the driving. 😉

      Wish you hadn’t said that about my posts though, you have no idea what that has done to the size of my head having read what you said. 😛

      We were planning to get up to BBC protest tomorrow but it looks like we won’t be able to do so now, my partner is having problems with her back. 🙁 We make a right pair, her with her back and me with my heart, breathing, walking… 😛

    134. EddieMunster says:

      Veterans for scottish independence facebook page is best I can find CameronB.

    135. Capella says:

      If you read Craig Murray’s blog you will find his estimate of 1600 at AFD is from a military person who made the estimate as he marched past them.
      The Stirling Council estimate of 50000 was made at their appearance at the Tourism etc parliament committee in Holyrood on April 23rd.

    136. molly says:

      Bunter,kids under 5 go free.If the weather had been good,I would have taken a picnic because there was loads of space and tables to sit at plus saves waiting in a queue for the kids.

      We arrived oneish and the woman directing the car parking told the people in front of us the tickets were sold out and they certainly announced it as well when we were collecting our tickets.

      By the way,for anyone easily offended by stickers- avert your eyes in the official carparks.You’ll need resus when you lose count of all they cars with wee blue stickers!A great sight.

    137. Morag Graham Kerr says:

      50,000 was what they were hoping for, for sure. The Scotsman is all over the place but going with this 35,000 figure from the MoD which seems to be complete mince.

      1,600 is the lowest estimate of the entire range, and seems as implausible as the 35,000 one.

      The sheer range is impressive though. You’d think someone would be able to give at least an idea of who’s closer.

    138. Paula Rose says:

      Do the combined talents of the MOD, Stirling Council et al not know how to count people?

    139. Rock says:

      This is Craig Murray’s response to a poster on his blog:

      “Matt

      My estimate of 1,600 is from a military source who was well placed to judge as he was marching past them! All the photos I can find show paltry “crowds” and as for the BBC coverage, I’ve seen bigger crowds at the final of “one man and is dog”..”

    140. Morag Graham Kerr says:

      It’s impressively wrong, isn’t it!

      Also uncertainly on BBL, because 20,000 variously quoted as for today, and over 2 days. Some people saying 10,000 today. They should know from the tickets though.

    141. Paula Rose says:

      Do the MOD know how to count the people they kill? Do they know how to count the ones standing?

    142. Patrician says:

      @bookie from hell, 12:24 am

      “More than 35,000 people lined the streets to cheer veterans and serving personnel before gathering to watch an array of military displays.” If there were 35,000 people lining the streets then the BBC didn’t manage to include them in their reports. Anyways “35,000 people lined the streets” is a strange way to count the numbers attending, as anyone passing by or out shopping would no doubt be included.

      @Morag, FWIW, I think Craig Murray watched the same news bulletin that I watched on the BBC earlier today. What I remember about it is very close to what he describes but I don’t know where the 1800 or 1600 figure came from it wasn’t in the report.

    143. Morag Graham Kerr says:

      Yes, I’ve encountered Craig Murray’s “sources” before. Taking all the accounts together it seems highly unlikely there were quite so few.

    144. Capella says:

      Craig Murray also says there were two BBC film crews plus radio crews. You’d think they would have some footage with all that talent there. Not seen any though except a cropped pic which Craig says does indeed show approx 1600 people. If I could be bothered and wasn’t listening to Robert Plant at Glastonbury, I’d enlarge it and count them!

    145. Paula Rose says:

      Hang on – only 8000 on a wee hill in Edinburgh last September – anyone got aerial photies?

    146. Lesley-Anne says:

      Paula Rose says:

      Do the MOD know how to count the people they kill? Do they know how to count the ones standing?

      One…Two…Three…Fo.. damn someone moved. One…Two…Three…F… damn he moved again…BANG! One…Two…Three…Four… 😉

      Yep Paula, I think they know how to count them. 😛

    147. Morag Graham Kerr says:

      I don’t believe the 35,000 number for an instant, going by what people who were there are saying. I do think 1,600 is likely to be way under though. Bear in mind the police said 7,000.

    148. dennis mclaughlin says:

      What about our American tourists who had planned their holidays around the Bannockburn event….Stirling District Council’s ‘scorched earth’ policy worked out nicely for them…that will be Scotland’s fate too if we don’t get a decisive YES vote in September.

    149. Morag Graham Kerr says:

      I am seriously tired of hearing what Craig Murray says. I could make up my own numbers if I wanted to.

    150. Paula Rose says:

      I’ve just noticed that there are very few boys engaging with the Independence debate – what can we do to get them to contribute?

    151. CameronB Brodie says:

      Perhaps you could sell kisses Paula? 😉

    152. Roll_On_2014 says:

      OT STU

      I noticed your tweet pointing out the R4 program The Special Relation: Uncovered.

      In reality, quite an eye opener.

      The above program in fact rang a bell in my head of another article I had recently picked up:

      Historians reveal secrets of UK gun-running which lengthened the American civil war by two years.

      It’s a pity I cannot record the R4 program, I do not have the equipment. But it would be nice to save the R4 program for posterity.

    153. Lesley-Anne says:

      Paula Rose says:

      I’ve just noticed that there are very few boys engaging with the Independence debate – what can we do to get them to contribute?

      FREE Tunnocks caramel bars and caramel logs for life! Do you think that will work Paula? 😛

      On the numbers game at Stirling I’ve just seen the BBC excuse of a report and I’m thinking the 35,000 figure may be the number of MILITARY personnel on display in Stirling, the *ahem* visitor numbers don’t look anything like the 15 – 20,000 that made it up Carlton Hill last year. 😛

    154. Paula Rose says:

      @ CameronB -don’t be flippant dear.

    155. Lesley-Anne says:

      Paula Rose says:

      @ CameronB -don’t be flippant dear.

      Thought you realised by now Paula that we all leave being flippant to *ahem* Flipper Darling. Boom! Boom! 😛

    156. Paula Rose says:

      Something is going on…

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bac2wHZoT2Y

    157. CameronB Brodie says:

      Paula Rose
      How’s this for flippant? Supporters of independence who use social media, are cybernats and a VIRUS? Or how about Scots not being genetically programmed to make political decisions? 😉

    158. Paula Rose says:

      CameronB dear – I’ll be making a careful study of your genetics next Friday, I presume you will be there?

    159. CameronB Brodie says:

      I’ll even floss. 🙂

    160. Paula Rose says:

      On the mill dear?

    161. CameronB Brodie says:

      In case folk don’t see the irony in what I have just said, I thought it disrespectful to rip into folk due to poor dental hygiene, so imagine how I feel being de-humanised by Johann-Lamont, Better Together and the MSM.

    162. Lesley-Anne says:

      Just in case any one is interested I have just read this over on Newsnet Scotland.

      [Newsnet comment. Today, Sunday, will see yet another protest held outside the headquarters of the BBC in Scotland. Up to 1700 people are expected to be in attendance at a peaceful protest against the BBC’s pro-Union stance in its coverage of the independence referendum.

      The demonstration will, more than likely, be ignored by the traditional media. However in the unlikely event that Scotland’s media decide the event is newsworthy then they may seek comment from those in attendance.

      With that in mind Newsnet Scotland has today republished the first half of our ‘Dirty Dozen’ article that highlighted six of the worst examples of BBC coverage of Scottish political issues. The article can be referenced by anyone wishing to explain just why they are attending the protest.

      Part Two is still in draft form and will be published some time in the near future. It will of course contain the Lucinda Creightin episode for which the BBC has still to apologise and broadcast a correction.]

      I love the idea of 1,700 protesters standing outside BBC HQ at Pacific Quay. I believe R.T. are going to be there think someone mentioned earlier last week. What a coup that would be! 😛

    163. Paula Rose says:

      Once upon a time I believed that the BBC was a respected and trusted source of information- now there is no c or e just sour, I am very saddened.

    164. Andrew says:

      Hi folks,

      I’m not trying to hijack this thread so apologies in advance if anyone is offended. But – any chance some of you kind people could repost this link on your Facebook or Twitter accounts to try and raise a wee bit of cash for the Yes Stirling campaign office?

      http://igg.me/at/Yes-Stirling-Office/x

      We’re still a wee bit short and your extraordinary generosity will make a difference as it has in the past for so many other similar worthy causes on this site.

    165. Dcanmore says:

      O/T … if you haven’t read this piece by Gerry Hassan on why he is voting YES, then give it a wee look, it’s a pretty good inspiring article. Should be posted through every door in Scotland.

      http://nationalcollective.com/2014/06/26/gerry-hassan-a-scotland-beyond-yes-and-no-my-journey-to-yes/

    166. Brian B says:

      And finally, you almost had me… It’s not gonna be thaaaaaaaaaat bad south of the wall guys!!

    167. Roll_On_2014 says:

      OT

      You could not make this up even if you really, really firkin tried to. That is unless you are the Daily Crap Mail, then its bullshit galore time.

      Not forgetting that HMG are in the process of posting ‘No Crap’ through every letterbox in Scotland at a cost of £720,000 to the tax payers, including Scottish ones.

      SNP accused of Scottish mailshot.

      Fearing they have been massively ‘out-gunned’ by the Westminster Government, the SNP administration now plans to send a pro-independence document to every household in Scotland at a likely cost to taxpayers of more than £700,000.

    168. geeo says:

      geeo says:

      28 June, 2014 at 10:09 pm

      That future still looks more positive than the BT case.

      Count me in, Yes all the way.

      Will they let Milliband out before this happens ?
      ……………………..
      Morag Graham Kerr says:

      28 June, 2014 at 10:10 pm

      You making that up or have you seen the film?
      ……………………

      Morag, not sure if your post here is referencing my post above it or not but if it is then yes, i have seen the film.

      Not much of a film granted, although i am a tad unsure what part i am supposed to have “made up” ?

      If you are not referencing my post above yours, this post will unfortunately not self destruct in 5 seconds…unfortunately!
      (Oops face smillie)

    169. Roll_On_2014 says:

      OT

      Lord Young: Scotland is a misogynistic country.

      His evidence:

      The reason why the Conservatives lost all their seats was because Margaret was a woman.

      This is the guy who works four days a week for Cameron. In 2010, the PM had to temporarily dispense with his services after he said the British had “never had it so good,” even if there was a “so-called recession.”

      And we also have pay for this unelected pillock to help run the UK. No wonder the UK is up shits creek without any oars.

    170. Roll_On_2014 says:

      whoops above:

      Margaret = Thatcher

    171. B.Bomb says:

      Just read this on the Herald website.

      http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/referendum-news/westminster-propaganda-war-to-encourage-armed-forces-to-vote-no.24607959

      And just when you think they can’t sink any lower…

    172. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      The BBC has lots of pictures of AFD, and large crowds of members of the public are conspicuous by their absence. The only shot with more than a handful in it is the one of the “spectacular” display (a single firework, by the looks of it), and that looks to have maybe 2000-3000 people tops.

      I believe there were something like 12,000 tickets available for Bannockburn Live yesterday, and Forth Valley Police tweeted in the morning to say that it was sold out and people shouldn’t go if they didn’t have one. Last I heard there were still some available for today, which is presumably a similar number.

    173. Albamac says:

      @B Bomb

      So, that’s Queen’s Regulations oot the windae then!

      WTF!

    174. kenzie says:

      They really do believe our heads button up the back, don’t they?

    175. kenzie says:

      Re B. Bomb. I can well believe this as I remember when I was a serving soldier I was told to vote Tory when I expressed a preference for the SNP (60s if you must know). My response got me 7 day’s Jankers.

    176. caz-m says:

      BBC England are this morning showing a clip from yesterday’s Bannockburn Live event.

      Why was this not shown yesterday? Maybe because it clashed with the Armed Forces Day event. And now that the AFD event is out of the way, they can now safely mention Bannockburn Live.

      They will also be reacting to the number of complaints that they received regarding lack of coverage from the Bannockburn Live event.

      BBC,Patronising Bastards.

      I’ll be at Pacific Quay today at 2pm, to give my support to the growing number of people who have had enough of the bias bullshit that floods out of that building,

      And to let the clowns inside know that their patronising Unionist propaganda is not working.

    177. caz-m says:

      The Sunday Post,

      “Tories blocked oil boom in the Clyde”, Heseltine admits.

      http://www.sundaypost.com/news-views/politics/tories-blocked-oil-boom-in-the-clyde-heseltine-admits-1.446273

    178. twenty14 says:

      @caz-m

      just read that and also about the NHS being privatised throughout England & Wales – do you think the SP is leaning to the YES side

    179. alexicon says:

      The population of Stirling is around 86,000…

      No it’s not. The population of Stirling is around 35,000.

      Genuine story from yesterday.
      I spoke to some people who attended yesterdays AFD. One told me that he spoke to a flag seller who was complaining because everyone was buying Saltires and Lion Rampant flags, but no union flags.
      Seems that the BT propaganda day didn’t go so well.

    180. B.Bomb says:

      @ caz-m

      I laughed when they referred to him as the “Tory big beast”. I read the article on NNS last night regarding the big beasts. It’s funny to see it in a mainstream article.

    181. Jeannie says:

      I was at Bannockburn Live yesterday and despite the rain, I had a great day out. Yes, there were queues for food, but the food was really good – had fresh, hand-made pasta with clams and mussels, but if you don’t want to queue, take a picnic lunch with you, and definitely a flask of tea as the tea queue was lengthy. They could have done with a few more caterers, but I think they were trying to promote the quality of Scottish food.

      The battle reenactment is not-to-be-missed, but there are long queues to get into the arena – health and safety. And I got to see Dougie McLean sing Caledonia live for the first time. Other bands were great too, such as Hail Patrol, The Deadly Winters and Washington Irving – magic!

      To be honest, the rain didn’t bother me – same as a couple of weeks ago in Strathclyde Park – it’s fine, just dress for the weather!

      Final highlight was the shuttle bus to the station – noisy and good-natured – apparantly the back of the bus actually could sing and so could the front!

    182. Tam Jardine says:

      Caz-m

      Genius: we have to remember that it was a conservative government that got rid of the poll tax!

      I also enjoyed tarzan’s scepticism over further devolution.

      And his admission that he blocked exploration of the Clyde basin.

      All in all a good read. It’s funny how they all cling on to the assumption of a No vote like a religious tennets – its always caged in what they think is complimentary language whilst actually they are assuming the majority are happy with their country’s situation and unwilling to change and take control. Which is a mistake and an insult.

      Good luck and thank you to all who attend the demo and thanks Thepnr for the link. I will be with you in spirit which is a poor substitute.

    183. caz-m says:

      twenty14

      One week you think that certain papers are on the YES side and the very next week the same papers are be kicking the shit out of us, so I would keep them ALL at arms length.

      Enjoy the fair and balanced stories while you can, because they are few and far between.

      At the end of the day, it’s their loss, because we just stop buying their papers.

    184. Robert Peffers says:

      Sheesh! Shades of Sawnie Bean.

      Alexander “Sawney” Bean was the semi-mythical head of a 48-member clan in 15th- or 16th-century Scotland, reportedly executed for the mass murder and cannibalisation of over 1,000 people.

      The story appears in The Newgate Calendar, a crime catalogue of the notorious Newgate Prison in London. While historians tend to believe that Sawney Bean never existed or that his story has been greatly exaggerated, his story has passed into local folklore and is part of the Edinburgh tourism industry.

      Thing is the Sawney Bean story is not unique. There are several other Scottish Cannibal stories including that of, “Christie-cleek”: (contained in the 1696 work of Nathaniel Crouch, a compiler and popular history writer) : –

      “About which time a certain thief who lived privately in a den, with his wife and children, were all burned alive, they having made it their practice for many years to kill young people and eat them; one girl only of a year old was saved, and brought up at Dundee, who at twelve years of age being found guilty of the same horrid crime, was condemned to the same punishment, and when the people followed her in great multitudes to execution, wondering at her unnatural villainy, she turned toward them, and with a cruel countenance said, “What do you thus rail at me, as if I had done such an heinous act, contrary to the nature of man? I tell you that if you did but know how pleasant the taste of man’s flesh was, none of you all would forbear to eat it;” and thus with an impenitent and stubborn mind she suffered deserved death.”

      Even in those days there were speculations the tales originated from England and were intended to denigrate the Scottish nation, (and they didn’t even have a BBC or Daily Mail in those days.

    185. macart763m says:

      @Jeannie

      So jealous.

      I’d love to have gone with the kids this year, but can’t get the time at weekends just now. Gutted there hasn’t been better coverage of the event.

    186. caz-m says:

      Posted earlier by Ian Brotherhood,

      A wee pick me up for a Sunday morning, the mass Pipes and Drums playing,

      “Amazing Grace”.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GD-5mRyaJw

    187. Jeannie says:

      @macart763m

      Aw, that’s a shame – there were loads of wee knights running around with wooden swords, pointy helmets and painted faces – a joy to watch!

      The medieval village was great too – something surreal about seeing Robert the Bruce’s men sitting at wooden benches eating soup and having a fag. Also went to the genealogy talks, which were good.

      And queues are what you make them – I didn’t mind, I chatted to the man in front and the woman behind me, had a laugh and took the time to watch what the crowds were getting up to – and you overhear some amazing conversations that you wouldn’t otherwise get to hear. Some people get fixated on queues and I can see it would be hard if you were elderly or had wee yins to look after, but if you’re fit, they’re just another opportunity in my opinion.

    188. Muscleguy says:

      @heedtracker

      If you manage to get a regular gig doing the weather on the BBC then of course you are going to pop some kids. Their employment rules mean they cannae sack you and it is hardly demanding so you can keep working as late as you want.

      It’s a job for a woman where you are not going to be fired for being pregnant and where they want photogenic (ie young looking) women. What do you expect? Same for newsreaders, sitting behind desks etc. Nice work if you can get it I reckon.

    189. macart763m says:

      @Jeannie

      Maybe in years to come there’ll be re-enactments of the PQ protest and September 18th 2014? 😀

    190. Haggis Hunter says:

      We were at Bannockburn live, brilliant day out despite the rain, it was heaving with folk.
      The RAF from AFD were behaving like pricks, low flying and dive bombing us rather than their own parade, felt like a show of strength, look at what we’ve got!
      Seen much of the SNP leadership, including Eck wandering bout the park. If they were LabServatives they would have needed security!

    191. Liquid Lenny says:

      CameronB Brodie says:
      Is there an HM services for Yes Facebook thingy?

      Don’t be Silly, I have mates in the British Forces, they are even afraid of logging on to WOS in case their internet is being tracked. Pressure is being put on them to vote No.

      BTW its Armed Forces day today in the Isle of Man, its appears to be co-ordinated all over the UK for this weekend, whether that was due to Bannockburn Live being on or just a co-incidence I will leave it for you guys to decide! As they have flypasts and stuff, they have to spread it over a couple of days as they don’t have enough military hardware to go around.

    192. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      Bearing in mind that an English supporter in Brazil had a bit of his ear bitten off by another English football supporter.

      FineYoungCannibalsAreUS?

      I think there is more of a chance of a wall being build from the Northern side to keep them out. We have to protect our sheep.

    193. Albamac says:

      North of the wall – are we Wildlings or Walkers?

    194. CameronB Brodie says:

      Liquid Lenny
      There was me thinking I was taking one for the team. 🙂

    195. mr thms says:

      Talking of films…

      http://www.scotsman.com/what-s-on/film/spotlight-on-alex-salmond-in-new-donald-trump-film-1-3460181

      “A HARD-hitting new documentary investigating Donald Trump’s contentious golf resort in Aberdeenshire is set to put the First Minister in an uncomfortable spotlight when it is released in cinemas two weeks before the independence referendum.

      The director told an event at the Edinburgh International Film Festival that Salmond had twice agreed to be interviewed but pulled out on both occasions. He was unable to secure the promised interview before the film, which is being funded by both the BBC and the Scottish Government’s own arts agency, Creative Scotland, had to be finished.

      Baxter revealed a deal had been struck during the film festival to release A Dangerous Game in Cineworld and Picturehouse venues across the UK in September. Scottish cinemas will show the documentary from 5 September.”

    196. Albamac says:

      During my time in the army, I never heard a single mention of politics. That’s how it should be and that’s why Queen’s Regs prohibits political activity.

      Of course, that was well before our ‘comrades in arms’ referred to us as ‘porridge wogs’ or ‘sweaty socks’.

      Great memories tainted by the advance of the BritNat brigade. Politicisation of the armed forces is a very bad idea and looks to me like the tri-coloured Tories are determined to finish Thatcher’s work.

      British democracy? Aye, right!

    197. Famous15 says:

      On the few days I was not asleep at the back of the lecture theatre in the Old Quad constitutional law class I remember hearing the learned professor cite many examples of how the will of the Scottish people was undermined by English spies prior to the 1707 Treaty.Tales ( as in fairy tales) of cannibalistic Scots were the favourites

    198. Rory says:

      O/T I was wondering if anyone else had spotted the Vote Noborders posting a link that wished women remained unengaged and uninformed about the referendum?

      I can’t find the original page but my big sister in Swindon bookfaced it https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10203632343516564&set=a.2425986616468.136112.1455624751&type=1&theater

    199. HandandShrimp says:

      Rory

      That is outrageous.

      I wonder if Lamont is astonished by that or whether she approves.

    200. Morag says:

      Wasn’t that a spoof comment?

    201. Stu, for some reason videos never show up when I’m viewing on my mobile. I can’t be the only person with this issue so as a suggestion, can you add a video link to future posts.

      Thanks

    202. HandandShrimp says:

      Wasn’t that a spoof comment?

      Perhaps, I would have thought if it was genuine the NOBs might very well delete it on the basis that it isn’t exactly PR friendly…and they are nothing if not a PR outfit.

    203. Restlessnative says:

      “The RAF from AFD were behaving like pricks”

      I suggest you look up these three men,Bill Reid VC,John Hannah VC and John Cruickshank VC.

      Both my Father and Grandfather were proud to have served in the RAF.I can assure you the RAF are not “pricks”.

      Both myself and my partner were at Bannockburn Live,we saw nothing of this “divebombing”.

    204. Rory says:

      Morag:

      unfortunately I don’t know, as i can’t seem to find the context on the original page. You may well be right.

      Albamac:

      I joined up for many reasons i won’t bore you with. banter is banter is banter. What gets me goat is when people consistently use England and Britain as synonyms (right the way up the chain of command). As well as the casual belittling, racism, and denigration even from the seemingly decent, intelligent lads is enough to knock a few reasons off the list of why i joined.

    205. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Several papers this morning report the 35,000? at AFD yet all photographs show no more than a handful of spectators.
      Even when Princess Anne and Salmond and Cameron are featured there appears to be only about 14 spectators in the very wide expanse behind them.
      There are no photographs of any significant crowd which is very telling as there would have been had there been a large crowd there.

      The truth might be interesting.

    206. Morag Graham Kerr says:

      Rory, I don’t remember the detail, but what I think I remember is that it was a spoof comment posted on the Nob Orders site when it first appeared. I think all the comments were deleted because they were mostly from independence supporters.

      I can’t be 100% sure but I do remember it being identified as a spoof at the time. There are so many spoof productions around (see above) it’s a minefield when something becomes accepted as genuine. Poe’s Law in action.

    207. Morag Graham Kerr says:

      Dave, it seems the papers are simply accepting the MoD’s claim at face value. Nobody who was there is claiming anything like that. Maybe 3,000, maybe 5,000, maybe even the police estimate of 7,000, I don’t know.

      Maybe they included the entire population of Stirling as “being there”?

    208. Capella says:

      Are we still on crowd numbers? I did a quick count of the crowd in photo (enlarged) linked to above john king 7:15 am
      Heres one from AFD
      http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/75908000/jpg/_75908160_explosion.jpg
      The crowd on the left is by far the greatest number of people. I counted 50 in a row. Difficult to asses how many rows but let’s be generous and say 10. That makes 500 people. The right hand crowd is much sparser. Let’s be generous again and say 200. That makes 700 people visible in the only photo of the crowd available. So unless there was 1500 people in the beer tent, the 2,000 figure is quite optimistic.

    209. Mat says:

      Sad thing about Stirling Council AFD shenanigans, is that whilst Stirling Council was “finding” the reputed £500,000 (have heard nearer £1,000,000 from insiders) to pay for the AFD celebrations, council employees were being made redundant as there wasn’t enough money to pay their wages.
      Let’s hear it for another Better Together feel good moment!

    210. Andrew says:

      Hi folks,

      I’m not trying to hijack this thread so apologies in advance if anyone is offended. But – any chance some of you kind people could repost this link on your Facebook or Twitter accounts to try and raise a wee bit of cash for the Yes Stirling trailer campaign?

      http://igg.me/at/Yes-Stirling-Advert-Trailer-Campaign/x/6564848

      We’ve just started this campaign and are short of our target but your extraordinary generosity will make a difference as it has in the past for so many other similar worthy causes on this site.

      Folks, we really need these trailers. They are vital to the success of Yes winning the Yes vote in the Stirling constituency. Please give what you can!

    211. David Milligan Lvss says:

      This is complete nonsense. It’s the opening scenes from the film “Doomsday”. I don’t think Better Together have the rights for that movie or even part of it.

      Someone has taken the clip and (badly) grafted a couple of slides onto it.

      If BT were daft enough to release it then it might even push a few more votes our way.

      Kindest regards,

      David Milligan Lvss

    212. macs says:

      from a film called doomsday .luv what you have done with it.

    213. Big Al says:

      It could the soldier at the end of the clip is looking over at England !!!!

    214. For anyone interested, we watched ‘Doomsday’ last night. It’s like they jumbled all their favourite films together, added in an 80s mixtape, some 70s CGI for the maps and garnished with some over the top violence.

      Final verdict, so bad it’s good. Worth watching just for the comedy value of how disjointed it is and spotting all the rip offs from other films.



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