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Firebrand vs milksop

Posted on June 28, 2014 by

An angry Dennis Canavan gets stuck into Ian Murray, the Labour MP who calls the police when someone puts a sticker on his window, on “Good Morning Scotland”.


For our money the most telling part is when Murray bleats about the SNP proposing a cut to Corporation Tax, and Canavan quite rightly points out the hypocrisy given that Labour reduced it twice when last in power and pledged to reduce it even further as soon as possible, Murray runs away from the issue without addressing it, but then has the brass neck to bring it up again at the end.

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    1. 28 06 14 15:38

      Firebrand vs milksop | Scottish Independence News

    181 to “Firebrand vs milksop”

    1. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      Just listened to the whole programme, at least until it stopped and became unobtainable, maybe too many WoSers tuning in?

      Canavan was monumental.

      Later in the show the Prof from London was saying that there is no NHS any more in England, unlike Scotland snd Scotland will starved of money, under the Barnett consequentials, to force the SNHS down the same track.

      She also said that we are wasting money galore on over expensive drugs caused by Big Pharma driving the policies to their end.

      We need to get her back up ion Scotland debating that on the TV, It would swing the vote easily to Yes.

    2. Patrick Roden says:

      Murray was on twitter earlier, bleating about someone describing him as ‘New Labour’ as he says he can hardly be described that way!

      I asked him if he resigned when Tony Blair began the New Labour project, that betrayed so many Scots’

      So folks, hold your breath as I will let you know what he says,as soon as he replies!

    3. Davie Hay says:

      He certainly didnae miss him and hit the wa.

    4. Neil Craig says:

      This stickering looks rather like a trend. Though obviously, not being a Labour MP, I am considered fair game. I assume the author was a Wings reader. I assume other Wings readers here will be broadly supportive of such behaviour.


      This morning I found that, overnight, somebody had plastered a large Yes sticker (5″ so much rarer than the button sized ones) on my door. I assume this is because I am well known as a UKIP supporter or because I have asked some pointed questions of the cybernats on the Wings over Scotland site.

      Remember how Alex Salmond went out of his way to endorse the thugs who attacked Nigel Farage last year (& rejected Willie Rennie’s call to “call off his dogs” when Nigel visited this year).

      If this is how the “nationalists” behave now, what should we expect if they win?

    5. Richard Bruce says:

      Neil… what a dud you are.

    6. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      just ignore the village troll please.

    7. Clootie says:

      Isn’t it nice when we have debate instead of sound bites.
      It highlights the capable and the chancer.

      An old fashioned socialist versus a “modern” machine cog.

      I know it is unlikely that he would accept the role but I would love to have Mr. Canavan stand unopposed for a MSP seat. We need that passion in Holyrood during the first few years of rebuilding our nation.

    8. wingman 2020 says:

      @Neil Craig

      Are you a sticker equivalent of a self harmer?

    9. Rod Robertson says:

      Go Denis!

    10. jim Dear says:

      Wowee, Dennis really put him in his place.

    11. jacksloan2013 says:

      Thank you for posting the Dennis Canavan and Ian Murray piece. Wonderful.
      It really lifts the day where so much media attention is on the British military establishment and the UK government dancing for Ukip in Europe.

    12. goldenayr says:

      Made me happy again.Kudos to Isobel for letting him get ripped into Murray.

    13. Thepnr says:

      Canavan says “I’ve chapped on more doors than you’ve had hot dinners” LOL.

      Go and chap some doors folks, even yer next door neighbour and mind tell them to vote Yes.

    14. mjaei says:

      Love how Murray gets all worked up about focusing on Ed Miliband as ‘an individual’ rather than the case being put forward. It’s not like that’s ever happened in the referendum debate so far…

    15. Clootie says:

      I know it’s hard but let’s really try to ignore the Troll.

    16. Duncan Spence says:

      As soon as that Labour Party robot asked rhetorically about the people of Scotland voting for the Labour Party “as they have done for 300 years” I lost all interest in his inane ramblings. Where do these people get their education? Do they really believe that we will accept their interminable catalogue of putative achievement? Do they honestly believe that the Labour Party has been in existence for 300 years???? Or that the Scottish people have always voted Labour? I am getting mightily pissed off with this nonsense.

    17. Thepnr says:


      Yes, that was the very first thing I picked up on. Let’s not make it personal eh! Hypocrite.

    18. Robert Peffers says:

      @Rev Stuart: “Murray runs away from the issue without addressing it, but then has the brass neck to bring it up again at the end”.

      Funny you should say that. I had the distinct feeling Murray has the same script writer as Johann Lamont – and shares the same lack of ability to vary his responses after rehearsing the script.

    19. M4rkyboy says:

      What are you prattling on about now Neil?

    20. Thepnr says:

      Sorry Rev O/T but this is what the BBC won’t show you from last week but the internet can.

    21. Bob W says:

      Oh deity, call the polis some cybernat has broke into ma hoose and put a bloody big yes poster in ma back bedroom windae!

    22. Mary Bruce says:

      Is that Neil Craig guy satire?

    23. MajorBloodnok says:

      That Murray is a smarmy bastard isn’t he? Voting against the bedroom tax consistently has he? Apart from when he didn’t turn up, of course…

      And I very much doubt he’s knocked on 4,000 doors in his constitency ‘in the last few weeks’ – he’s not knocked on my door that’s for sure…

    24. Albaman says:

      Dennis is at his best when his blood is at boiling point, SO if any of us is going to attend a referendum meeting where Dennis is one of the panelists , waylay him,first and get him really angry then watch him tear strips off the ” bitter together ” panelists!!.

    25. heedtracker says:

      Murray is so weak but can take heart from incredible press and journal style eye popping bias with Balls, Davey, Milliband and Brown all getting their massive vote NO headlines here in Aberdeen today.

      Plus its very weird watching extreme Tory hard right local journos puffing up Labour MP’s. Vote No, Tories in charge of ukok, Labour back in power at Holyrood is their cunning plan, their creepy sneaky shitty little P&J plan for Scotland.

    26. Andy-B says:

      Wow! I wouldn’t want to get on the wrong side of Dennis Canavan, when he gets going. Thanks Rev for uploading, and thanks to the “Alert Reader” who brought it to Rev’s attention.

    27. fifflyf says:

      It’s really nae that hard at all..ignoring the troll!

    28. Bunter says:

      Canavan sure is an asset and he is old Labour to the core.

      Had the pleasure of seeing New Labour in action in Johnstone earlier when the SLab vote naw battle bus rolled in. Off they came all wearing suits, just like yer grassroots lol, with some minders and proceeded to chase the locals round the town square, as no one went near them lol. Wee Doogie and entourage then resorted to pouncing on folk getting off the local bus, shook a couple of hands then they were all gone in half an hour.

      Didn’t help that the local YES team already had a LFI gazebo and YES stall up and running with a steady stream of interested folks coming all day, and manned by ordinary locals.

      The contrast was stark, and SLab are in big doo doo.

    29. Albaman says:

      He’s worse than a “troll”, he’s ukip!, and therefor irrelevant !.

    30. Tattie-bogle says:

      yes sticker firmly stamped on murrays foreheid #outofcontrol

    31. Proud Cybernat says:

      Sticker on a windae! Oh ffs grow a pair.

    32. msean says:

      Real Labour there,well said Mr Canavan.

    33. Luigi says:

      Another pretend Labour, unionist liar filleted this morning by Dennis Canavan. All Labour voters in Scotland need to be aware of the only choice on offer:

      1. Vote YES, get rid of the tories and enable a new, real Labour party to emerge in Scotland.

      2. Vote NO and contribute to a Tory landslide in 2015 (and suffer the consequences).

      There’s really nothing else on the table.

    34. handclapping says:

      ‘As a well known UKIPper, somebody putting a Yes sticker on my door means (s)he was a Wings reader.’

      Stu, can I have an Alert Reader badge for noticing that that is illogical?

      PS Its not only “gay” thats been nicked, “man” was ungendered and specifically wapman and woman. It would have been much easier to use the “man” than “(s)he”

    35. G H Graham says:

      How is Labour’s legacy in, eh, Iraq been working out? Everybody happy? Handshakes all round? Land mines cleared up? No more IEDs? Sniping finished? Folks bored with summary executions? Weapons & ammunitions all scrapped?

      Now to those YES stickers all across Scotland. What next? YES fridge magnets on garage doors? Oh, the inhumanity! Oh, the suffering. Oh, the wanton disregard for property & life.

      If insurgents & militants had access to stickers, imagine the biblical horror of witnessing merchants scratching glue off their shuttered doors.

      The horror. The h-o-r-r-o-r.

    36. muttley79 says:

      Murray describes the bedroom tax as “vile”, and yet it was Labour who introduced it in the private sector as Dennis Canavan rightly said. All the Tories did was introduce it in the public sector. Ian Murray is the personification of a New Labour drone, a machine politician who stays on message, and talks like he is reading a script. Canavan destroyed Murray, his integrity, passion and commitment to a better society was clearly evident throughout that interview. What a mug Murray is. Isobel Fraser is a very good journalist. Far better than Kirsty Wark, Naughtie etc.

    37. Conan_the_Librarian says:

      “If this is how the “nationalists” behave now, what should we expect if they win?”

      Err, there will be no need for YES stickers then…

    38. Defo says:

      What I want to know is, is Neil the proxy for Murrays munchausens ?

      Please Stu, can we keep Neil, as a pet ?


    39. handclapping says:

      I’m going to have all my surplus Yes stickers overprinted with
      It was
      for the doors of the naesayers

    40. muttley79 says:


      He has not knocked on my door either. The lad is a bullshit merchant, along with the rest of the New Labour crowd. The only doors Murray has been knocking on are in his dreams! 😀 😀 What a chancer.

    41. mr thms says:

      # Neil

      “If this is how the “nationalists” behave now, what should we expect if they win?”

      I sincerely hope there will be a Yes vote. What should we expect if Scotland votes No? A future UKIP government, it will never vote for, taking back the limited power that Scotland currently has?

      “The party’s 2010 general election manifesto pledged to replace the 129 MSPs with Scottish MPs.

      The parliament would be retained but on a part-time basis with MPs spending just one week a month on ”devolved business” in Edinburgh and the rest of the time in London.

      English MPs would sit on ”English-only days” to give people south of the border a more distinct parliament, the party argued.

      Ukip also proposes downgrading Holyrood’s power, arguing that all UK citizens should be entitled to equal treatment in health, education and public services.”

    42. Clootie says:

      It’s tough being a “No Thanks” politician. Half your reputation is ruined by the lies you tell and the other half is ruined by the truth!

    43. pete the camera says:


      He has not knocked on my door either. The lad is a bullshit merchant, along with the rest of the New Labour crowd. The only doors Murray has been knocking on are in his dreams! 😀 😀 What a chancer.

      He is a Chancer he just knocks and runs away

    44. Training Day says:

      Murray is bereft of principle, devoid of belief, and buzzword fixated. He doesn’t like anything too much and he doesn’t dislike anything too strongly. In this he resembles virtually every New Labour politician produced in the last twenty years.

    45. Dr JM Mackintosh says:

      O/T Vey unfortunate timing on my summer holidays so I will miss both the Bannockburn Day and the BBC bias demo.

      Hope you all have a good time at both. Make sure there is a good turn out for the BBC. They probably will forget to film the demo and Bannockburn as well as will be too busy at the AF day instead.

      For those off you who have cancelled your BBC licence and are wondering where to put your 10,000 Flags for Indy here is a suggestion…


    46. Votadini Jeannie says:

      I’m not sure I understand the kipper’s point. Is he quoting his own letter or someone else’s? If it’s his, who is he addrssing it to?

      Anyway, it rather sounds like he’s accusing Wings readers of perpetrating the “crime” (it’s just a sticker, ffs). But unless he’s published his full address on some Yes forum, I’d suggest he looks around closer to home. If he spots a neighbour sniggering behind his hand, then that’s a far more likely culprit than thousands of people who don’t know where he lives.

      This is one wee daud o glaur that won’t be sticking, kipper.

    47. Schrodinger's Cat says:

      dennis sounded really animated no lack luster there

      “I’ve knocked on more doors than you have had hot dinners”

      lol, oan yer sel

    48. macart763m says:

      Woohoo Dennis. 😀

      ‘Course you can see why Darling wouldn’t want to debate Dennis. The FM will merely embarrass the the man. Dennis would go all Tarantino on his ass. 😀

    49. TJenny says:

      G H Graham – Ah, Apocalypse Now, probably my favourite film ever. Which allusion allows me to segue-way into something that happened in the early hours of Thursday morn.

      Being a nightowl, I don’t usually go to bed until 3 or 4 am. However, on Thursday, having an early morning appointment twixt cat and vet, I aimed to get to bed earlier, and was in my pit by 2am. I have no curtains on my windows, only venetian blinds.

      Just lying in bed hoping for sleep to hijack me at an earlier time than usual, I heard what could have been one of those gutter and drain cleaning machines grumbling loudly in the very still, grey blanketed night.
      However, this noise increased to a definite ever louder clanking whirr, accompanied by the shadow of propellers spinning across the blinds. I did feel that I was in the opening scene in the bedroom of Apocalypse Now. (see, I got there, eventually. 🙂 )

      I got up and opened the blinds. There then appeared a black helicopter surging above the roofs opposite, they are only 2 storey buildings, so the helicopter must have been flying very low, flying so low in fact that, now I had opened the blinds, its light lit up my whole bedroom.

      The circling helicopter continued circling for over half an hour, at no time did it ever go out of earshot, from 2.15 until 2.45. (with Clutha in mind, I found myself straining for any divergence in the propellers’ whirring, and thankfully, eventually, said heli then flew off, to I know not where.

      No mention of it on STV or BBC news next day, but interestingly, or not, at FMQs were a delegation from the
      Parliaments’ of the Balkans and the PM of Bosnia.

    50. G H Graham says:

      Apparently Bannockburn tickets have all sold out: about 20,000 if I am correct.

      Not bad considering the Unionist media spent months rubbishing the take up and that the free to attend Armed Forces Day is tax payer subsidised to the tune of £50 million.

      And I’m not sure the area could have coped with much more anyway. It’s a tight squeeze at the edge of a 1950’s housing estate.

    51. biggpolmont says:

      When someone comes from the Falkirk area and your town is better know for lack of democracy,alleged vote rigging by unions & by greedy money grubbing mps with too much liking for claiming expenses. it really makes a pleasant change to have someone from Falkirk on the radio with a bit o fire in his belly who can quite easilly kick the ass of a labour Loudmouth

    52. joe kane says:

      Bugger (the Panda), thanks for mentioning the NHS segment on GMS.

      It was the respected expert on the NHS, Prof Allyson Pollock who was interviewed. I have been searching for a reference to her claims that the NHS in England no longer exists. She says on GMS, “…England’s actually abolished its National Health Service..”(01:12:30). She says about NHS Scotland, “More PFI per head of population in Scotland.”

      Anyone interested, the GMS news item on the state of the NHS on both sides of the border and what the future holds for them begins at 01:11:30, ends at 01:20:45.

      The end of an era in England goes unreported by the BBC. The NHS Scotland will go the same way if we vote NO.

      Allyson Pollock
      Professor of Public Health Research and Policy

    53. heedtracker says:

      Bannockburn sell out shows once again bizarre planning by Bettertogether. If they’d not tried to block out Bannockburn, they’d have had the whole arena to themselves for their Army day but its only focused attention on Scotland.

    54. Juteman says:

      The likes of Murray and many modern Labour MP/MSP’s would have been right at home in the Tory party of Thatchers era. They support policies far to the right of anything Thatcher did.

      As an OT, my son gave a WOS poster to his Yes voting barber in Dundee. It is now on the wall of his shop, so hopefully will prove a source of debate amongst waiting customers. 🙂
      PS, his barber is Muslim, and reckons the majority of Dundee Muslims will be voting Yes.

    55. Schrodinger's Cat says:

      na, thats just perfectly normal paranoia, everyone gets that

    56. Patrick Roden says:

      @ Clootie,

      “It’s tough being a “No Thanks” politician. Half your reputation is ruined by the lies you tell and the other half is ruined by the truth!”

      Love it, and so true! 🙂

    57. TJenny says:

      Schrodinger’s Cat – Phewee. 🙂 We’re clearly back to the 60s, where the prevailing ethos was ‘just ’cause you’re not paranoid, doesn’t mean they’re not out to get you. 🙂

    58. cirsium says:

      re Professor Pollock, here is her TED talk on the privatisation of the English NHS. It shows what is coming to us if we vote NO.

    59. Patrick Roden says:

      Saw BBC’s James Cook doing a piece for BBC News 24 about Stirling today.

      He mentioned the Forces day at length and interviewed a couple of soldiers.

      He didn’t mention or even allude to the Bannockburn celebration once!!!

      A Shameful insult to all Scots.

    60. Croompenstein says:

      Late result coming in..

      Bannockburn Live…1 Stirling Shitty Council…Fail

    61. joe kane says:

      A piece on Andy Murray during today’s BBC2 Wimbledon coverage (at c 12.30) had Jose Murinho saying something to camera along the lines that the Murray win last year made it feel that it wasn’t Scotland but the UK that was important.

      I can’t imagine the BBC ever covering the win of an English sportsperson from such an angle, and using footage of an actual foreigner claiming that being English was of no importance on the international world stage.

    62. Kalmar says:

      Crash landed UKIP saucer mumble mumble..

    63. pete the camera says:

      @Patrick Roden

      “Saw BBC’s James Cook doing a piece for BBC News 24 about Stirling today.

      He mentioned the Forces day at length and interviewed a couple of soldiers.

      He didn’t mention or even allude to the Bannockburn celebration once!!!

      A Shameful insult to all Scots.”

      Be good to see the numbers for both events “free” (Westminster “subsidised” we all have to pay if we go or not) against the “Pay to get in” event

    64. Patrick Roden says:

      O/T but they are doing it again!!!

      Reports on twitter that Labours Blunderbus had a number of kids from England up to do some street campaigning for BT!

      They weren’t even from Labour in England, they were members of something called the citizens service, or something.

      So this big grassroots drive that Blair McDougal promised, isn’t quite what he said it was going to be.

      Never thought I’d see the day when Blair McDougal would be caught lying to the voters and taking us for fools.

      We know for a fact that people from the MSM and Better Together read Wings, so I wonder if Blair McDougal would like to comment?

      Then again, it’s Scotlands MSM and Labour we are talking about here, so to hell with democracy, eh?

    65. Adrian B says:

      @ Patrick Roden<

      It sounds a little like this:

      “National Citizen Service (NCS) is a unique, full-time programme aimed at 16 and 17-year-olds in England that runs for over 3 weeks in the summer holidays; in 2013 shorter programmes will also run during spring and autumn half-terms.”

    66. Grouse Beater says:

      Patrick spots the flaw: Never thought I’d see the day Blair McDougal would be caught lying to the voters and taking us for fools.

      “The South City Mob” grousebeater.wordpress

    67. AyeAlba says:

      Gaun yersel Dennis, I could listen to you all day long.
      Just love your fire and enthusiasm. Wish there was more of your ilk.

      Thanks Rev for posting the interview, I’d have missed it otherwise.

    68. Robert Louis says:

      Dear Mr Iain Murray,

      Since you seem to know nothing about what YOUR party, Labour, have done, let me explain;

      Tuition fees – introduced by Labour

      Bedroom tax – introduced by Labour

      Illegal and immoral Iraq war – Labour.

      Amongst other things, the current policy of your Labour party, is to keep the same austerity cuts that the Tories have, and be ‘tougher than the tories on benefits’. You also intend keeping (and voted for) the Tory benefits cap.

      The days when Westminster MP’s could get away with decieving the people of Scotland in such a pernicious way are long gone. Labour are now just the RED Tories.

      You want to keep trident nuclear missiles and use taxpayers money to upgrade it. You want to keep tuition fees in England and re-introduce them in Scotland.

      You can pretend all you like, but facts are facts, whether you like them or not.

    69. John H. says:

      T.Jenny 3.41pm.

      “Just lying in bed hoping for sleep to hijack me at an earlier time than usual, I heard what could have been one of those gutter and drain cleaning machines grumbling loudly in the very still, grey blanketed night.”

      You’ve got a fine turn of phrase there T.Jenny.You should be a novelist. 🙂

    70. sausage fingered luddite says:

      I passed the slab blunderbus in leafy South of Paisley earlier. Not sure who they were planning to convert outside a carehome and unused football park. Wee duggie the local mp, shuggie the msp and alas the bus driver all suited up and standing around while the kids were sent across to the nearby estate.
      I would’ve approached but my wean was too embarrassed. Probably for the best…

    71. YESGUY says:

      brilliant broadcast.

      Dennis is a wee bit angry. Good for him its about time someone spoke out against the hypocritical labour movement.

      Great stuff Stu.

    72. Calgacus says:

      Many thanks Rev. I couldnt access this wonderful example of truth conquering lies on iplayer. Another wee donation heading your way shortly

    73. Albaman says:

      Adrian B
      You mean like “England’s youth”!

    74. Appleby says:

      Listen to the difference between them. How they talk as individuals. This is key. One is a genuine person, the other is not.

      Dennis is a genuine person discussing the issues he feels is impotant in an honest and from the heart manner while Ian is a typical careerist trougher politician, using political training, sound bites and avoidance techniques we see on TV and hear on radio from dozens of drones every day.

      Notice when Dennis asks a direct question or brings up a clear Labour mistake Ian cannot counter it or admit fault ever? Every mistake is ignored if they can’t pretend someone else did it. When confronted, Ian instead moves the goalposts or topic onto something else or goes off into a long meaningless non-sequitur set piece waffle to try and derail the conversation as much as possible before Labour look too bad or people realise the damage Labour have done or the inconsistency in their claims.

      If Ed Milliband and Gordon Brown punched babies in the streets on camera and this was brought up then robot careerist politicians like Ian would reply upon this being brought up in an interview with the exact same cut and paste non-sequitur set piece waffle as you hear here. “Do you think (Clearly immoral/wrong thing) your party did was wrong?” – “*BZZZZT* WE DO NOT APOLOGISE FOR LISTENING TO PUBLIC BLAH BLAH WE KNOCK ON DOORS AND SPEAK TO PEOPLE AND THEY LOVE US *BZZZT* BLAH BLAH WE BROUGHT IN POLICY X TEN YEARS AGO *BZZZT*”.

    75. TJenny says:

      John H – seeing as how we have many, many excellent wordsmiths and even authors here on WOS, I take that as a huge compliment. Thank you. 🙂

    76. Caroline Corfield says:

      Oo, National Citizens Service – yeh, let me tell you about that, it’s crap. My daughter got invited to go on it, via the school but the first thing I know is something that looked a lot like a phsishing scam letter popped through my letter box. It’s free, but they let you know how free it is, by telling you the ‘costs’ itrepresents, and all you need to do is spend £10 registration. See the scam likeness? So I was all for binning it, but then my daughter said she wanted to go on it because her pal was, expect her pal was almost too young for the scheme so would have to register before she was eligible which seemed to cause no end of bother with them.

      As it was the weeks they wanted her to go were when we were on holiday but the feedback for her friend who finally managed to get accepted onto the scheme was not impressed.

      I showed the letter to my father-in-law who was ex-police inspector and he agreed it looked dodgy, but then that’s the government for you…

    77. Caroline Corfield says:

      Apologies for the typos/word substitution by auto correct

    78. Conan_the_Librarian says:

      While walking my dugs I saw the Battle of Britain Flight take off from Turnhouse, the roar of the Merlins was grand…

      …away to strafe Bannockburn?

    79. galamcennalath says:

      There’s a Norwegian movie tonight on Film4 called Troll Hunter. Might pick up a few useful tips 😉

    80. Croompenstein says:

      James Cook will not be forgotten for what he did today, stood on the parapet of Stirling Castle and referred to Bannockburn as some ‘other’ battle. For a Scot to do this is on this day is unforgivable. The referendum will be over on the 19th James and whether it’s yes or no there’s no going back for you or your imperialist masters. The pitchforks are coming BBC

    81. Paula Rose says:

      Anyone got any further details about the alleged connection between the blunderbus and NCS? Very interesting if true.

    82. Paula Rose says:

      @ Croompenstein – I would have thought sharpened poles more apt 😉

    83. Appleby says:


      Did you see the BT campaign are using NCS kids to pad out numbers on their campaign? Seems they’re using ones from outside Scotland too.

      I wouldn’t have expected NCS was allowed to help political campaigns.


      James Cook is scum, as are the others in the BBC arranging their careful and deliberate attempts to sink the Bannockburn event and giving no mention of it even while they are at the same town that they could report it from! It’s a hatred of all things Scottish. If they can’t prove us to be “too wee, too poor, too stupid” then they’ll ignore and cover up our successes or try to sink us.

    84. M4rkyboy says:

      Conan,i have had the shock and awe of two Orange parades and a squadron of fighter jets assaulting my eardrums today.
      I fully expect the charge of the light brigade and a full Naval broadside to wake me tomorrow if today’s anything to go by.

    85. macart763m says:


      Badumtish. 😀

      Nice one.

    86. Caroline Corfield says:

      I have not seen the children used in political campaigns, but I can’t quite recall what the blurb suggested they would be involved in. I’d be surprised, but not totally if this has happened.

      I shall go off and see what the website is saying.

    87. Caroline Corfield says:

      Here is the website, it is information lite, and a tad annoying to navigate on an iPad, can’t imagine it’s ideal on a phone either.

      If they are up in Scotland, it’s not exactly local for a start…

    88. ronnie anderson says:

      @ Patrick Roden, National Citizens Service have a F/book

      page, leave a message for those young people.BE NICE


    89. Roll_On_2014 says:

      joe kane: 3:46 pm

      Allyson Pollock NHS Privatisation knows no borders.

    90. caz-m says:

      Ian Murray says that the unemployed youths don’t need money, they need opportunities.

      Can I ask Ian Murray how many opportunities does it cost to buy a loaf and a pint of milk. Arse.

      We also really need to get the message across to undecided voters, that it doesn’t matter who is in power at Westminster, Labour or Tory, they are both going to hammer the Scots if we vote NO.

    91. Roll_On_2014 says:

      Sorry about the VID link above it starts some way in, you will have to rewind it to the beginning.

    92. eezy says:

      There’s a common theme of shouting over everyone to stiffle the debate.
      Broony’s back with some help from the Guardian….

    93. Proud Cybernat says:

      O/T – apologies folks.

      Proud Cybernat presents to you my latest poster thingy:

      ‘Death or Gold’

    94. caz-m says:

      Ed Miliband coming up to Scotland until 18th September to save the Union. Is he sleeping on wee Johann’s couch? Will him and Archie become best pals?

      Miliband really does think we are all stupid. He is only worried about the Labour MPs he will lose when Scotland votes for Independence.

      He couldn’t care less about Scotland, he is only interested in Labour MPs numbers for his Westminster total.

      Ed, we see right through you pal. Clown

    95. Defo says:

      Just had a wee look at NCS. Only open to English & NI kids, website all shiny happy people. Can’t put my finger on why, but it reminds me of Common Purpose. (Neuro-linguistic programming for the elites useful idiots)Something creepy about it.
      Saw your comment on their FB page Ronnie, don’t wait up for a reply.

    96. Croompenstein says:

      @Paula Rose –

      I would have thought sharpened poles more apt

      Was Lech Walesa a sharpened Pole?

    97. Thepnr says:

      If you can’t make it tomorrow to the protest at pacific Quay then you can watch it here at 2PM courtesy of Independence Live.

    98. Cracking stuff from Dennis!
      And on another light note,Iain Gray took a hell of a beating from Kenny Macaskill on friday night(port seton debate)

      Even the YES folk felt sorry for him,hope it was filmed by someone…

    99. Robert Peffers says:

      @Mary Bruce says:28 June, 2014 at 2:25 pm
      “Is that Neil Craig guy satire?”

      Nah! Just pure ire and, being UKIP in Scotland, totally irrelevant. A bit like an itch in a place you cannot scratch.

      Just ignore him.

      It’s like those old seaside comic postcards with the large elephants. These had the large lady saying to the wee shilpit mannie, about the the very large pachyderm, ” Just ignore it and it’ll go away”.

    100. Paula Rose says:

      re NCS site – “It all starts at Yes”, have a look.

    101. Paula Rose says:

      @ Croompenstein – If I’d meant Poles I would have written Poles, I wrote poles – they are like sticks but bigger and not to be confused with polls.

    102. Croompenstein says:

      @Paula Rose – Oh you cannae trust those polls!

    103. Bob Sinclair says:

      Just took a wee look at the NCS site. I wouldn’t let my kids within 100 miles of these people.

    104. Les Wilson says:

      Just watched STV news at 6.30, Armed Forces/Cameron ( made a comment about the referendum ), then about the Pipers in Moray.

      NOTHING ABOUT BANNOCKBURN! We can forget STV, they are now in thrall with all the rest of the media crap.
      One exception was SKY news, which while being a little biased, gave an otherwise fair assessment and report.

    105. Lesley-Anne says:

      Got back earlier from Annan High Street and our YES South Annandale street stall. Not to bad a day at all. I am a wee bit disappointed though, our wee pet unionist failed to turn up with or with out his horse…ho hum! 😛

      Most people were pleasant enough today but there were those, supporting NO, surprise surprise, who showed their ignorance, in my view. I mean what is it with folks? Someone offers you a leaflet and you don’t want it why can people not say “No Thanks”, it is their new name now isn’t it? Some folks just rush past eyes firmly fixed looking at the ground, others just barge past without a word. Ignorance is rife amongst supporters of NO that’s for sure!

      The up side of today were the numbers of people who said they were voting YES, not to mention the few beeps of car horns as well. 😛

      We may be slap bang in the centre of Tory heartland down here in Annan but they definitely do not have it all their own way. September 19th 2014 is going to create one hell of a shock to them down here I reckon! 😉

    106. Paula Rose says:

      Perhaps the man on the gee-gee was part of the English cavalry at the Bannockburn re-enactment!

    107. Croompenstein says:

      Just for you Lesley-Anne..

    108. Graeme Doig says:

      Bannockburn ‘deniers’. Is that right. Contemptible ("Tractor" - Ed)ous bastards.
      Couldn’t make it to Glasgow tomorrow due to long standing family stuff but luckily have an understanding wife so will be there.
      Can someone please repeat details to save me spending the night scrawling through posts. Thanks

    109. Croompenstein says:

      @Graeme – I posted these this morning on the cartoon thread –

      Raging not the word, F*ckin EBC. James Cook at Stirling bigging up Armed Forces Day and not one mention of Bannockburn. He talked about the Wallace monument and how there had been ancient battles then pointed to statue of Bruce and said and I quote “And a statue up here of Robert the Bruce who fought in others as well but today the main event here is to commemorate Britain’s armed forces”

      James Cook you had us fooled we thought you were at least going to try and be impartial but to refer to Bannockburn as ‘others’ you have shown yourself in your true light. We won’t forget it James, our history is not ‘others’ we will celebrate repelling the invader and you can celebrate invading other countries along with your imperialist masters.

    110. David Agnew says:

      Question: How does one “rewrite the future” exactly. Mr Murray seems to think its possible

    111. Krackerman says:

      Everyone needs to take a wee chill pill and calm the fk down… I’m aff to Bannockburn tomorrow to have a good time with the family. Screw the BT/Naw crowd…

      Haters gonna hate – ignore them – don’t become them.

    112. Lesley-Anne says:

      Paula Rose says:

      Perhaps the man on the gee-gee was part of the English cavalry at the Bannockburn re-enactment!

      Aye well if he was Paula he’d certainly be dead meat! 😛

      Croompenstein says:

      Just for you Lesley-Anne..

      Thanks for the wee reminder there Croomp. I remember the day well I was there. In fact just before our wee pet unionist starts with his “up the union” malarky you get a quick glimpse of my partner, in the cowboy hat standing behind me in the wheel chair. 😉

    113. Dorothy Devine says:

      That’s folks – it never happened ,Bannockburn that is ,at least not on STV news.

      I am absolutely disgusted with the ba$tards.

    114. caz-m says:

      Paula Rose

      Is that NCS website for real?

      “It all Starts at

      And is wee Johann putting all these young English students up as well, along with Mr Ed’. It’s going to be very busy in the Lamont household.

      Is this the grassroots “No Thanks” were talking about.

      A bus load of young English students and the leader of a failed Political Party.

    115. Robert Peffers says:

      Wow! NNS carrying a story that UNISON branch officers, “have signed a declaration of support for an independent Scotland as a route to a fairer society and economy”.

    116. Graeme Doig says:


      Thanks for the pep talk but some things deserve some righteous anger

    117. Graeme Doig says:

      And some action

    118. Croompenstein says:

      It’s not hate Krackerman it’s just disgust. Disgust at the blatant bias reporting, the subliminal bias reporting. I would say that they crossed a line today but as someone else said they are so far over the line, the line is just a dot to them..

    119. Lesley-Anne says:

      Damn it!

      That’s the second time today I’ve sent a post and it has disappeared! I’m not a happy bunny. 🙁

      I just wanted to say that I think if our wee pet unionist had made it to Bannockburn he’d be toast. 😛 I also said that as always I enjoy that clip of our pet unionist Croomp. I do actually agree with him would you believe… when he says “Up the union” I certainly agree there, up the union right up the union! 😛 If you’re quick Croomp you can see my partner in the cowboy hat just before our pet unionist starts with his up the union guff! 🙂

    120. Famous15 says:

      Some clever camera angles on STVNews at ForcesDayStirling.So Bannockburn was a sellout but Forces Dayattracted only a couple of thousand.

    121. Findlay Farquaharson says:

      i went to bannockburn today but wouldnt let me in with my dog, looked great from outside tho.

    122. Lesley-Anne says:

      Famous15 says:

      Some clever camera angles on STV News at Forces Day Stirling.So Bannockburn was a sellout but Forces Day attracted only a couple of thousand.

      Don’t you just love it when a plan comes together Famous. Despite an almost complete news blackout on Bannockburn and the 700 year anniversary it appears that it is Bannockburn that has attracted the crowds whilst the unionist Stirling council and their Armed Forces Day only had a few thousand visitors. I believe Bannockburn was certificated for up to 20,000 visitors and as of last night I had heard they had 15,000 tickets sold. 😛 Not only that but I understand they have lost thousands over this *ahem* event and certainly some of the businesses were none too happy about it either. 😉

    123. caz-m says:

      Graeme Doig

      See you at 2pm, Pacific Quay near Govan tomorrow afternoon Greame.

      Bring a flag or make up a poster, RT tv should be filming it for a worldwide audience.

      Idea for a poster,


    124. Defo says:

      “Cabinet Office and providers should induct and train all staff working on NCS”

      2012 programme cost £36.8m for 27,000 ‘trainee’s’.

    125. Capella says:

      They were expecting 50,000 at AFD so the poor 2,000 turnout is great news. Meanwhile, another famous victory at Bannockburn with tickets sold out so 10,000 attended..
      Hope someone took pix and video to upload as it seems it’s another news blackout on the MSM.

    126. Krackerman says:

      Not sure if AFD was a bust or not – they predicted 50,000 – that was never going to happen not even when it’s “free” .. Personally didn’t go… nothing there to celebrate… seriously… what is AFD for? What’s the purpose? Show off the latest killing machines? I did see an Apache… indeed impressive until you recall the wikileaks video showing such a machine murdering Iraqi civilians from 2 miles away while the crew joked and laughed from the safety of the armoured cockpit… Nah… Nothing for me at AFD and I don’t think I’m the only one…

    127. Graeme Doig says:


      Thanks for that

    128. Findlay Farquaharson says:

      watched the red arrow display from my garden. was awesome.

    129. Thepnr says:

      @Findlay Farquaharson

      What? They wouldn’t let you in with your dog. Are these jobsworths for real. Holy shit, we need to get rid of this crap. A fucking park where you can’t bring a dog.

      This pettiness really does annoy me, you sometimes wonder “who makes these rules”. Whoever it is they are pathetic, common sense goes oot the windae it seems.

      OK I’ll forgive them until 19th September then they will be held responsible for their idiotic decisions. As will the politicians.

    130. Findlay Farquaharson says:

      the dog thing may have been to do with the horses at reinactments. i understood altho im 25 quid down.

    131. ronnie anderson says:

      @Graeme Doig6.49, pacific Quay 2pm bring your Tv Licence / threatening letters, Wings banners will be there.

    132. Krackerman says:

      Red arrows awesome… yes… if they weren’t flying an aircraft 40 years obsolete…

    133. P G McLaughlin says:

      Re interesting camera angles on STV news. When reporting on an incident in Brand Street Govan the camera lingered on an empty street showing the Orange Halls complete with UKOK banner.

    134. heedtracker says:

      There’s a total BBC/ITV news blackout on Bannockburn 2014 because they know they’ve screwed up trying to use UK Forces day to demean it all. All they have is Scotland’s airwaves, for now at least.

    135. ronnie anderson says:

      @ Defo naw pal ah dont hing aboot waitin on clowns replying,ah hiv a wee keek in tae NCS f/book the morra,I just wanted other people to post up, their parent must look in on the site to see what they,re kids are doing.

    136. caz-m says:

      I am not on Facebook or Twitter. But it would be great if all you good people who are on them could spread the word about the BBC Scotland Bias protest at Pacific Quay tomorrow at 2pm.

    137. ronnie anderson says:

      Pacific Quay Tomorrow Markers / Paper provided at the

      Wings Banners.

    138. Caroline Corfield says:

      Bob Sinclair – you and me both, it did nothing to inspire confidence at all.

      I’ve just got the details from my daughter, it was a different friend who did it in the end, I think they messed the younger pal about so much she gave up. This other girl said it was fun for the first week but just work with no reward in the second week and the award ceremony was rubbish. ( I’m sure it was supposed to be three weeks too)

    139. Iain Gray's Subway Lament says:

      Murray is not the only BritNat to find himself on the wrong end of a roasting from a firebrand as wee Willie Rennie was also left greetin for his mammy after Sheridan tore into him

      Rennie was so feeble that Nick Clegg’s ultra loyalists were left desperately trying to spin his frosty reception from the disctinctly unimpressed ordinary scots attending the public meeting as an “angry mob”.

      It really hasn’t occurred to Clegg’s obedient spinners that the reason Rennie was so pathetic is that, thanks to Clegg and the coalition, the lib dems are now about as popular as Cyril Smith at a children’s party.

      This despite the scottish elections and every set of local elections proving just how despised the yellow tories are time and time again.

    140. Donald says:

      I thought this was interesting Forth Valley Police reporting on Twitter that Bannockburn Live sold out.

      ForthValPolice @ForthValPolice 7h
      #BannockburnLive has completely sold out. Carparks are full. Please only attend this event today if you have a ticket. Have a great day

    141. Nana Smith says:

      On Rev’s twitter

      he has a shock scoop coming up in a couple of hours…stay tuned folks

    142. John Gibson says:

      Drove by both events, and Bannockburn certainly seemed much better attended. I’m sure the pelting rain in the afternoon suppressed numbers for both – probably more so at Kings Park, mainly because you’d be more likely to endure the weather if you’d shelled out to attend – just my take.

      As to the Red Arrows, my wife and I ended up swearing “please just f**ck off” because the constant roar overhead was driving us to distraction – couldn’t hear Judge Judy on the telly, for Christ’s sake!

    143. Brian Powell says:

      I did see a TV crew interviewing a guy who was talking about all the folks at the Bannockburn festival who were wearing Yes T-shirts and badges.

      I didn’t see the name of the TV company.

    144. Robert Peffers says:

      So the BBC News network reports AFD, a soul singers death, S.Williams defeat and Brazil’s win but – no word yet of the Bannockburn. Oh! Wait up – they do give a brief mention as local news. Ye couldna beat the Beeb wi a muckle stick.

    145. Paula Rose says:

      Is that the news where we are?

    146. Defo says:

      No Paula, ’tis the news where they are.

    147. john king says:

      My wife just told me she read on the internet that 35.000 turned up for the armed forces day?

    148. bookie from hell says:

      SKY NEWS covered Bannockburn

      BBC—0 mention

    149. bookie from hell says:

      saw elsewhere police estimate 7k AFD

    150. handclapping says:

      @bookie from hell
      That’ll be the 7 from BT’s grand Edinburgh march going round 1000 times then?

    151. Another Union Dividend says:

      Ian Murray lied about knocking on 4000 doors and must be struggling on his £66,396 a year salary as according to the Edinburgh Evening News, on 6th November he claimed the highest amount of any Lothian MP for his energy bill of over £747. Good to see taxpayers paying for an early energy freeze for MPs when many are struggling to heat their homes.

      The Edinburgh South Labour MP claimed a total of £181,840 in expenses, on top of his salary, including the third highest amount in the UK for his Constituency Office at £26,593 which is crazy as since Devolution Scottish MPs have fewer responsibilities than English MPs. Office rented from the former disgraced MP Nigel Griffiths, who despite this still retains a Westminster pass to lobby on behalf of his clients,but he can’t afford matching paint for his shabby front door.

      The Office expenses don’t include his staff salaries amounting to £121,430 which also provides extra household income by employing his partner as a secretary. No wonder these Westminster MPs are so hostile to Scottish self determination as it will end their London gravy train.

    152. callum says:

      AFD had way more than 2000 present before the rain at 3:30 but what I can tell you is that the office car park at Pru was meant to be used for AFD parking but only a few spaces (out of about 1000) were used. Empty buses rotated round all day

    153. Findlay Farquaharson says:

      o/t just been told by itv world cup pundit that nobody likes uruguay. thot i did.

    154. geeo says:

      biggpolmont says:

      28 June, 2014 at 3:45 pm

      When someone comes from the Falkirk area and your town is better know for lack of democracy,alleged vote rigging by unions & by greedy money grubbing mps with too much liking for claiming expenses. it really makes a pleasant change to have someone from Falkirk on the radio with a bit o fire in his belly who can quite easilly kick the ass of a labour Loudmouth

      It was a big shock the clown turned up to meet Dennis in the first place.

      There was only ever going to be one result.

      I just about remember Dennis coming around our house, him and my old man were good friends what with the old man being Scottish Organiser for the GMB.

      I used to sit and listen to him speak, even when i was young it was clear this was a guy who believed in every word he spoke, and was willing to put principle first and foremost.

      I have rarely witnessed such fire, passion and belief from anyone politically motivated from then to now.

      Meeting a New Labour monotone mutation of a once proud organisation that Dennis loved was only ever going to end up one way.

    155. geeo says:

      Sorry for that shambolic post and for not separating the quoted extreme bad!

    156. Ian Brotherhood says:

      While we’re waiting for the ‘scoop’, here’s a wee game to while away the minutes.

      Visual metaphors for the BTUKOKNOTHANKS campaign:

      So, for example, ‘if the BTOKOKNOTHANKS campaign was a potato, it would look like this –

    157. Les Wilson says:

      Ian Brotherhood says:

      ha, a very close likeness of Blair McDougal

    158. cynicalHighlander says:

      @Les Wilson says:

      Ian Brotherhood says:

      ha, a very close likeness of Blair McDougal

      Only a tattie has more goodness in it.

    159. Ian Brotherhood says:

      If BTOKOKNOTHANKS was a ballroom dance act, it would look like this:

    160. CameronB Brodie says:

      I don’t think I had consciously heard Ian Murray MP before, but now that I have I’m somewhat ASTONISHED. How can someone so ignorant of his own party’s history, indeed the history of the UK, get elected to Westminster? I’m left wondering whether Mr Murray is thick or deliberately disingenuous? Either way, I’m not taken in by his well groomed, content free waffle.

      Should NCS be registered with the Electoral Commission, as campaigning on behalf of No. Is NCS a member of the CBI? If so, would the English CBI need to register as campaigning for No?

    161. Ian Brotherhood says:

      If BT was a ‘toad in the hole’, it would look like this:

    162. Ian Brotherhood says:

      If BT was a parrot, it would look like this:

    163. Sinky says:

      There is no doubt that Ian Murray is a devious so and so.

      I would be betraying my sources if I revealed all that I know on his political activities but suffice to say that he was totally uninterested in the Foundation of Hearts for two years until such time as Lord George Foulkes put forward his name to become Chairman in order to protect his slim 600 parliamentary majority.

    164. Dennis Smith says:

      @ Cameron B

      At the 2010 Westminster election the Lib Dems were confident of capturing Edinburgh South and Labour apparently agreed. The sitting Labour MP withdrew at the last minute and Murray was parachuted in as a stop-gap candidate. Rumour has it that he was shocked and appalled when he was actually elected but he seems to have acclimatised quite nicely to the atmosphere at Westminster.

    165. CameronB Brodie says:

      Dennis Smith
      SLEEKIT! How else would you describe a sitting MP attemps to re-write the history of the party he represnets? Blissfully ignorant might be a kinder alternative? I’m not sure which I would prefer myself.

    166. Re NCS, their website states, “NCS is delivered by a series of charities, college consortia and Voluntary, Community, Social Enterprise (VCSE) and private sector partnerships across England.”

      These include Co-operation Ireland and The Football League Trust.

      If in fact it was NCS, someone should surely be asking whether Better Together No Thanks should be using 15year olds for political campaigning, and delivering leaflets, especially as charities are involved. Charities are supposed to be non-political.

    167. Erchie says:

      @Neil Craig

      As was pointed out at the time, the protest against Nigel Farage was organised by an English Labour Activist, so why Alex Salmond should have anything to do with it baffles me.

      To further use the comments by LibDem local mouthpiece Willie Rennie when you had some choice things to say about your old party when you flounced off seems doubly ridiculous.

      Unless you feel that Nigel Farage should apologise for traffic disruption in Glasgow because the Orange Order are out and about because the OO & UKIP have similar aims just as the SNP and the organisers of that demo have a few similar beliefs

    168. Erchie says:

      On Twitter it was suggested this is NOT the National Citizenship Service but a “National Campaign Squad”

      Though it still seems to derive membership shipped up north

    169. geeo says:

      Too late to play ?

      If BT was a positive case for the union, it would look like this…….0…

    170. geeo says:

      Jeezo…no more posting tonight !!

    171. Another Union Dividend says:

      Dennis Smith says:

      The previous disgraced Labour MP for Edinburgh South , Nigel Griffiths survived his failure to disclose that he personally owned the property he claiamed £11,000 a year rental income from the taxpayer and was found guilty by the Standards Comsioner Elizabeth Filkin who Labour hunded out after complainng was “too strict” on MPs expenses claims and her ruling was overturned by a Labour dominated committee.

      Later Nigel Griffiths was involved in a sexual liason with a lady in his House of Commons Office.

      Faced with deselection he did not seek reselection but kept his gravy train as Ian Murray rents Niel Griffith’s former office at £11,000 a year whilst Nigel Griffiths still retains a Westminster pass to lobby on behalf of his clients.

      And you wonder why Labour MPs oppose Scottish self determination and defend the Westminster system of government!

    172. geeo says:

      Ok, maybe one more post..
      If this is out there on the twitter thing (do not do social media) i do apologise.–balls-makes-anas-3778871

    173. Sinky says:

      Another Union Dividend

      How many other jobs would you keep your full pension despite such disgraceful behaviour in your work place during office hours and on Remembrance Day which is so revered by Unionists?

    174. David MacGille-Mhuire says:

      Murray’s arguments the kind of cheap, lying self-justifications one expects of trolls and low pay-grade, yakuza whore-meisters doubling up as second-hand bicycle salesmen on a bad day for pimping.

      Apropos the individual himself, rather than his spurious drivel, was it my imagination, but was he barely haudin’ back on greitin’ as DC eviscerated him? I kept on waiting for a Carmichael-type “Help me…” plea as his voice seemed to increasingly tremor.

    175. Patrician says:

      @Neil Craig, 1:48pm

      If someone has stickered your door, I would like to apologise on their behalf.

      To make up for this act of vandalism I have some WingsOverScotland stickers left and if you go to the BBC bias rally at PQ, come talk to me and I will give you a handful of the WOS stickers to put over the Yes sticker.

    176. Andrew says:

      Hi folks,

      I’m not trying to hijack this thread so apologies in advance if anyone is offended. But – any chance some of you kind people could repost this link on your Facebook or Twitter accounts to try and raise a wee bit of cash for the Yes Stirling campaign office?

      We’re still a wee bit short and your extraordinary generosity will make a difference as it has in the past for so many other similar worthy causes on this site.

    177. Brian Mchugh says:

      Andrew… just stuck you over the target 😉

      Congratulations to everyone 🙂

    178. Andrew says:

      Hi folks,

      I’m not trying to hijack this thread so apologies in advance if anyone is offended. But – any chance some of you kind people could repost this link on your Facebook or Twitter accounts to try and raise a wee bit of cash for the Yes Stirling trailer campaign?

      We’ve just started this campaign and are short of our target but your extraordinary generosity will make a difference as it has in the past for so many other similar worthy causes on this site.

      Folks, we really need these trailers. They are vital to the success of Yes winning the Yes vote in the Stirling constituency. Please give what you can!

    179. Chris Silver says:

      Just to debunk Murray and his criticism of cutting corporation tax, not even a day and they contradict themselves, Liars to attain power.What Dennis said was right and look at why he was deselected because he wasn’t a flunky, if people like Canavan are outside the Labour Party highlights the problem with the party, morally bankrupt. Nothing will change if we don’t seize power from Westminster.

    180. Doug Daniel says:

      Only just got round to listening to this. I don’t think I’ve ever heard a more one-sided debate. Absolutely glorious. Dennis clearly knows exactly what kind of wet blanket Ian Murray is, and tears him a new arsehole.

      Oh man, imagine Dennis vs Darling on TV…

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